and artemis
#h1-builds-and-combat
plucky solstice
plain river
Well the main thing about aphrodite attack on the dionysus flourish is the chance of finding their duo
Lets you stack hangover +3 times against weakened enemies
tight basin
And procs privileged status
plain river
And procs privileged status
That too
tight basin
It's like the one build that benefits from it lol
plucky solstice
im goin to practice some more
and maybe i can beat meg with rail using 2 defiance 3 instead
plain river
And while you’re at it try to get the ares boon which inflicts doom when you get hit
wanton dagger
what exactly does doom do again
plain river
And while you’re at it try to get the ares boon which inflicts doom when you get...
Since it opens another duo which makes your hangover do damage faster
tight basin
what exactly does doom do again
After 1second the damage gets dealt
It's generally a sizeable chunk of damage
plain river
what exactly does doom do again
You hit with an attack, doom is inflicted, a second later the doom falls and does damage
wanton dagger
ah fair enough, I typically run with a attack deflector or somthing that boosts my crit chance/damage
plain river
The ares boon recommendation I made wasn’t for the actual effect of said boon
It was for the duo it opens up
wanton dagger
ahh makes sense, I think the my first boon set up that worked really well was the ares dash thing and cast as well, attack deflector, and zeus call, along with the rapid hit and life steal on the sword
plain river
I mean that works but I wouldn’t call it an actual build
Since it’s a bunch of random disconnected boons
wanton dagger
yea i just play to play in all honesty, i just enjoy the game and try to find things that just work and do what I need it to do
plain river
There are 2 extremes for hades that I like, absolulely crushing hades with a build where everything fell into place, or when nothing fell into place and the victory screen truly feels earned
wanton dagger
yea, thats fair enough, im just not good at knowing what to grab, cuz I have a really strong feeling that the boons I like are the boons that are not "the best, or optimal"
plain river
or doing absolutely dumb builds and it working out fine like talos with poseidon special 😎
proper furnace
The ez part of understanding builds is high base dmg = go % boons
Quick but weak = go for flat dmg like zeus/ares/hangover
plain river
The ez part of understanding builds is high base dmg = go % boons
And don’t take poseidon attack
wanton dagger
see i didnt like hangover at first but now ive grown to love it, epically festive fog
proper furnace
True
wanton dagger
so what would the most optimal build/boon for each god/goddess be or like something that would pair well with Stygian blade
plain river
Specific aspect on sword?
proper furnace
There are a few newbies builds pinned in #h1-for-new-players
Also yeah aspect matters
wanton dagger
Im using the base one bc one I like the way it looks and two I wanna unlock the hidden one[Ik who it is but wanna try to forget which is why im not typing it]
so the first one
plain river
arthur
wanton dagger
yea
proper furnace
You dont have to use the first aspect to unlock the hidden aspect
wanton dagger
Which ive heard is the best but I wanna use aspect of zag first
proper furnace
Also you have hidden spear?
wanton dagger
i also know i dont have to i have to have five unlocks and yes I have hidden spear
in the sword to unlock the hidden one for it
proper furnace
Ah aight
wanton dagger
i just like using the base one aspect of zag
but yea what would the best boon/deaduls hammer set up be for it/what to go for
proper furnace
For base sword you can go aphro attack + zeus call for smoldering air
Double edge is the best hammer by far
plain river
i just like using the base one aspect of zag
tbf base sword is kinda just worse nemesis
wanton dagger
i just dont have nemesis yet lol
proper furnace
For base sword you can go aphro attack + zeus call for smoldering air
From hermes take either +dashes or hyper sprint + rush delivery
plain river
And if no +dash and no hyper sprint but haste is there, is the play taking haste? I think so but not sure
wanton dagger
I will alwaysgo for plus dashes if i see em
tight basin
what's better in general, more dashes or hyper sprint
proper furnace
On sword i feel like dashes
tight basin
ik more dashes give more iframes but hyper sprint opens up rush delivery which is really good
proper furnace
Just harder to get used to for optimal use
wanton dagger
what does rush delivery do?
strange lark
turns movement speed into damage
plain river
what does rush delivery do?
Extra movespeed = extra damage
tight basin
how many dashes is it?
for sake of comparison let's say both rare
strange lark
RD is better imo
plain river
Extra movespeed = extra damage
50% of extra movespeed is extra damage at common rarity up to 125% at heroic rarity
proper furnace
for sake of comparison let's say both rare
Il take rd cuz i cant play extra dashes on sword
tight basin
fair
strange lark
its mostly preference
hexed lagoon
Bro that's weird lol
iron barn
do yarn/nectar affect chaos
neat mauve
yes
iron barn
epic!
neat mauve
plain river
iron barn
is impending doom calculated before or after dire misfortune
plain river
Post
iron barn
I'm trying to do a funny backstab build, what gods should i go for other than athena
arthur sword
dreamy prism
arty for DR
don't forget to use nyx keepsake once you're done with gods for even more backstab
iron barn
ok
random relic
arty for DR
dont forget about support fire, possibly the best boon to get on arthur
plain river
i just burst 3200 with a single arthur hit
What’s your build?
Actually nevermind
Something like shadow slash with arte attack and heart rend puts you in that ballpark
proper furnace
Best backstab build is stacking exposed + chaod backstab to make a super strong Than summon backsta
iron barn
that bug lmao
tight basin
than backstabs what
wraith helm
guys what is the optimal build for the last awakening of the rail gun i forgot the name
lucid oar
Very similar to aspect of eris
You want Zeus on attack, a % special boon (Artemis and Aphrodite preferred) and tidal dash, with support boons from Zeus and Poseidon
Triple bomb is an excellent hammer
wraith helm
ok ty
dreamy prism
it's basically aspect of triple bomb
icy gale
howdy, just thinking some things through - it feels like some boons go better on quick attacks that can be spammed (ice, lightning, hangover), while others are good on high damage slower ones (weak, crit (?))
does doom fit better into one or the other type?
dreamy prism
does doom fit better into one or the other type?
doom isn't really the best for damage dealing outside of merciful end
which is by far better on quick attacks
icy gale
is ares doom just not great at all?
dreamy prism
it can be good as supplemental damage
basically on attacks that hit somewhat slow but aren't meant to deal most damage like beowulf and hera attack
it's also viable on chiron special as long as you also have dire misfortune
chiron is pretty much the only non ME doom damager build tbh
icy gale
is chiron the base bow?
oh heart seeking
interesting, on special? I'd thought you'd want lightning/poison/frost on it
as it hits like 5 or 6 times quickly
proper furnace
Doom chiron is fun if you have dire misfortune
Also zeus on chiron is bad
It has internal cooldowns and it only gives you 1-2 bolts
icy gale
oh interesting
plain river
interesting, on special? I'd thought you'd want lightning/poison/frost on it
Artemis and dionysus work well on chiron special
Both will want you to pick up aphrodite on attack
tight basin
Ares on Chiron special is only viable if you get dire misfortune but if you don't get that then have fun with that lol
iron barn
does theseus with artemis allow him to crit
iron barn
chiron is pretty much the only non ME doom damager build tbh
what about your literal username
tight basin
does theseus with artemis allow him to crit
I think when you get hit you hear the crit sound effect but idk how much damage it does
plain river
Hades wiki says they can crit
But not how often or if it’s the normal crit multiplier
tight basin
Imagine getting crit by Theseus for like 60 damage lmao
plain river
Theseus trying hard to reach asterius levels of power
iron barn
theseus has canonically bested asterius in combat bro 💀
dreamy prism
what about your literal username
lol that was a meme run
it absolutely dominated but at 32 heat where everything works
iron barn
how is chiron doom better than lucifer doom
dreamy prism
on lucifer everything is extremely unviable because zeus attack exists
that's hyperbole of course but you get my point
random relic
doomcifer just kinda sucks lol
on chiron doom can actually be half ok but zeus attack is really the only good attack on lucifer
heavy quiver
Hi! I've beat Hades a few times now, and think I've come to like the gloves the most. Are there any good guides for different kinds of Glove builds? At the moment my "build" is to focus on increasing attack/health as much as possible, but I can't imagine that scales well the more Hell mode things I increase
tight basin
use aspect of demeter, merciful end is always good if you get a good doom rarity at the start
otherwise zeus atk and aphrodite special is good if you dont want to high roll that much and then smair
ME is extremely strong but needs a ton of boons and luck: doom atk, athena special, athena dash, get ME duo, get impending doom, get dire misfortune. the first 4 are the most important, the last 2 are just things to ramp up your doom damage by a lot
also common doom rarity sucks ass, if you get common doom attack at the start just pick a different weapon or die to reset the seed
the second build is also pretty dependent on getting a lot of zeus boons but at least you're not relying on a certain duo to show up
if you dont get smair then it's not the end of the world, if you dont get ME by the time you reach hades (or even the champs or styx) then it's much more difficult. the reason why i said to use aspect of demeter is because you'll get a special that'll deal a lot of damage every 12 hits or so which isn't too bad so it's a decent back up plan if you dont get ME
tldr, get flat damage on atk, % on special, get a duo boon that can uses those 2 together well, use aspect of demeter
random relic
yeah ME builds are always good. you can also try zap fists, which is zeus attack, atry/aphro special and pos dash
pos dash can be annoying on fists though
ME is almost always your go to build though
tight basin
if you have to take pos with fists put it on the cast
or a noncore boon
prioritize noncore boon so you dont open any duos
tawny fern
What build should I go for Arthur
tight basin
What build should I go for Arthur
aphrodite atk, idk what else you really need lmao
try to backstab as much as possible since arthur is super chunky, get as much backstab or atk dmg as possible with chaos, backstab hammer is good as well
oh would shadow or fiery presence be better for arthur, first hit doing big damage will shred rooms faster but backstabing can be more consistent on bosses i'm not sure about that one
tawny fern
Gotcha
dreamy prism
oh would shadow or fiery presence be better for arthur, first hit doing big dama...
both are good, I tend to prefer shadow
just because bosses are a weakness of arthur without highroll heart rend
tight basin
fair
dreamy prism
but then arthur can also struggle to TD3 which fiery is meant for
so yeah personal preference, fiery is also slightly harder to use
proven osprey
Arthur is probably the best weapon for backstab so fiery is absolutely nope
plucky solstice
whats the best build for arthur
iron barn
lightning strike
iron barn
Arthur is probably the best weapon for backstab so fiery is absolutely nope
lol
how do hestia dash strikes work
i cant seem to make it work
cunning urchin
how do hestia dash strikes work
Dash+Attack or Dash and then Attack right after.
wild jasper
If you load 3 bloodstone into a Hera Attack/Cast, or just use your last cast on any other weapon, does Ravenous Will activate before or after the Casts hit?
plain river
On any regular cast it should activate as soon as you cast the last one, not sure about hera or beowulf
proper furnace
If it says 0/max amount amount of casts then rav will is activated
cunning urchin
If you load 3 bloodstone into a Hera Attack/Cast, or just use your last cast on ...
As soon as all your bloodstones are loaded.
iron barn
is hades call clearing skulls + making him repeat attacks intentional
proper furnace
the repeat is intentional yeah
charm works the same
tho idk what is the clearing skulls
iron barn
wiki says the call removes any hades skulls on the ground
iron barn
the repeat is intentional yeah
intentional as in "let's include this for funny speedrunning"? since its so hard to notice
strange lark
wiki says the call removes any hades skulls on the ground
it doesnt do that
wild jasper
Question about using both Rush Delivery and Lambent Pume
When I increase the speed boost from LP by beating encounters fast, does Rush Delivery qualify that as a separate speed boost and give me more damage, or does LP always count as one single speed boost for the sake of RD damage boosts?
plain river
?
Rush delivery takes your movespeed higher then base and multiplies it by it’s percentage
dreamy prism
Question about using both Rush Delivery and Lambent Pume
When I increase the sp...
should be the latter
if it was the former plume RD would be absolutely broken
plain river
If lambent plume was multiplicative with itself 
dreamy prism
don't see anything odd about it
plain river
It’s the line about it giving more damage in the former that’s tripping me up
Whatever
The latter
tight basin
is hyper sprint --> rd worth getting on arthur considering how slow the attacks are or am i better off rerolling for faster atk
tawny fern
Should I go with Zeus special for Rama bow?
dreamy prism
Should I go with Zeus special for Rama bow?
it's decent but not recommended over the standard picks of arty or dio special
tight basin
why arty?
i'd assume for heart rend duo but you're not gonna crit with the atk and that's your main damage source
dreamy prism
oh wait this is rama bow lmao
ignore everything I said
zeus is one of the top picks for rama special and my personal favorite for stripping DC shields fast
other good ones are dio, ares, and dem but only with killing freeze
tight basin
okay that's what i thought lol i was pretty sure zeus was one of the best
tight basin
it's like budget zeus with the extra damage lol
random relic
zeus good on rama bc smair and also numbskulls
dreamy prism
all the homies hate numbskulls
tight basin
50 heat if you're not a coward
tight basin
you just need every zeus boon in tartarus then it's not that bad
dreamy prism
what wr
random relic
seeded modded loyalty card
dreamy prism
damn that's my favorite category
random relic
yeah, i hope that run lasts forever lol
dreamy prism
although surely seeded category would actually be something like dio beo
random relic
nah
seeded loyalty card is hestia
but just so it can get rocket
it doesnt actually attack charon with it
dreamy prism
sus
soft kiln
I need a build for flood shot and curse of drowning
For my prophecy
I just don't even know where to begin with that
I should probably just do shackle something and just force it then die
dreamy prism
I need a build for flood shot and curse of drowning
talos
special stuff into range, spam out the curses of drowning
that's the duo's best build
soft kiln
Like Zeus attack ares special flood shot maybe?
soft kiln
Fair
mental zodiac
what's better for beowulf: poseidon's cast or aphrodite's cast?
proper furnace
Flood flare until mirage is hard to come by then switch to passion
So when starting to take ri/ap basically
mental zodiac
what's mirage?
plain river
Mirage shot
lucid oar
It’s bugged on beowulf, instead of 1.3x damage it’s 2x damage
plain river
Normally it’s a second cast whenever you cast at 30% damage but on beowulf it’s bugged to do normal damage
mental zodiac
wow so Poseidon then ig
soft kiln
oh neat curse of drowning is awful
proper furnace
Is weird
soft kiln
i guess tbf i'd probably be happier with it if flood shot wasn't common
proper furnace
Last time i used it was on achilles i think
soft kiln
whelp i lost
was really hoping to finish my boon prophecies. one more random bad poseidon boon to go
iron barn
oh neat curse of drowning is awful
its kinda funny on beowulf
each pulse deals the same damage as a single flood flare right?
so its significantly more dps and beowulf lets you get them all out at the same time; if you have lots of casts it ticks really fast too
proper furnace
Flood flare is the same dmg as flood shot pretty sure
Also it blocks mirage shot so 
wild jasper
Has anyone else noticed that Thanatos's attacks in a "Death Approaches" room, seem to increase in damage from 9999, to.. 19999 sometimes, for some reason? I think it's because of either Hera Rail or Rush Delivery or both, but idk why it would qualify for a damage buff from either when it isn't even Zagreus doing it (which is why summons do fixed damage), and the buffs are useless due to obviously being able to oneshot all regular enemies.
Or am I just a dumbass and it always did 19999?
proper furnace
Did you have hunter's mark/targetting system/sweet surrender?
Also is hestia rail, hera is bow
tight basin
there's also the aphrodite boon where weak foes take more damage
weak surrender or something
wild jasper
Oh sorry, meant Eris
And I do have Targetting system.
tight basin
oh he already mentioned that lol i cant read
tight basin
Oh sorry, meant Eris
And I do have Targetting system.
they take 30% more damage so than's gonna do more damage if they're in your special
proper furnace
Huh a 30% shouldnt bring it that high
That high is normally from a hunter's mark crit
tight basin
sweet surrender does the same iirc as well
might be something in the code where any increase to than's damage just puts it up that high
wild jasper
Maybe the first four numbers are set to always be 9s?
proper furnace
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
tight basin
it'd be funny if the extra damage created an overflow so it does less damage lol
proper furnace
Ok stupid guess vut did you have exposed from athena @wild jasper?
I dont remember if than encounter can backstab too
wild jasper
I don't
But idk why a big aoe move like Than's attack would get backstab
tight basin
i think it's a bug or something
cunning urchin
Has anyone else noticed that Thanatos's attacks in a "Death Approaches" room, se...
Pretty sure you saw 12999, which is just from Targeting System.
And two individual hits may have overlapped.
soft kiln
do things that increase special damage also increase hangover and doom damage that originated from the special?>
i assume not
but just wondering
plain river
Pstatus increases hangover/rupture/doom damage though right?
iron barn
its a global damage buff so yes
plucky solstice
whats the best attack for holy excalibur
plucky solstice
oh
dreamy prism
nah aphro better
plucky solstice
but the athenas gives good defense
strange lark
aphro is the best since artemis crits are rare on arthur
dreamy prism
ddash is always good
plucky solstice
yeah theres no better dash than athenas
strange lark
idk man as someone with
plucky solstice
what
strange lark
copypasta for divine dash
plucky solstice
i take it as a joke that i dont understand
dreamy prism
Idk man as someone with around 10 40 Heat runs under my belt I will literally always take Divine Dash over pretty much everything. Unless the build really requires a specific dash to create a broken interaction, Divine Dash is good with every build, every weapon, and is simply incredible. I agree with the top post of this comment chain that 8.5 is a little weird for easily the best Dash in the game.
plucky solstice
yeah i think ares dash is superior to every dash after reading this
dreamy prism
based
random relic
lmao
divine dash is ok but a lot of aspects prefer tidal for the raw damage output and aoe
strange lark
nah thats what mistral dash is for
random relic
hmm
like hestia speedruns start tidal dash im pretty sure just because its good for tart
and achilles too i think?
plain river
Hangover dash 💪
proper furnace
Nasty dasg best gaming
tight basin
yeah i think ares dash is superior to every dash after reading this
ares dash best dash for dc 64
plain river
Shackle dash 🧠
tight basin
shack dash only run when
soft kiln
so i'm on an eris run. i have epic flood shot, aphro call, and lightning strike
the very next chamber i buy a poseidon boon and am offered Heroic Tempest Strike, epic typhoon's fury, and Sea Storm
the very next chamber after i got lightning strike i mean
strange lark
Roll for Poseidon dash
soft kiln
i think i take sea storm and just prioritize getting tempest dash
oh cool you thoguth the same thing
random relic
yeah on eris a large chunk of your dps comes from tidal dash
soft kiln
lol so this really sucks. i was typing and accidentally pulled the hades window up and took typhoon
so i closed the game hoping to restart in the same chamber
i am in the hall of weapons
so much for that run
tight basin
if you hit "quit" you should end up right after you picked your boon
did you hit "give up"?
tight basin
oh you bought stuff
soft kiln
so i closed with task manager
tight basin
yeah you can quit the game if you bought anything or took damage
it saves after you pick up a boon and when you enter a room
random relic
yeah also you cant quit in the middle of encounters
soft kiln
i just figured if the program force closed it would start in the room
rail still has dark thirst i wonder if the seed is the same
random relic
yes, it is
tight basin
same seed but only the first 2 or 3 chamers are the same i think?
soft kiln
isn't it he same if i make all the same choices?
valid dagger
No
Because rng isnt consistent in some rooms/with some interactions
So you're very likely to go off at some point
plain river
i never noticed he murdered innocent shades
“Innocent” shades
iron barn
im playing eris lightning strike tidal dash and i somehow got zeus poseidon and artemis in tartarus already
which keepsake should i take for asphodel
proper furnace
Hourglass/plume?
random relic
nah, poseidon generally
if you already have special you almost always take pos keepsake in aspho
mainly because aspho wells are just ew
iron barn
yeah i did that
proper furnace
if you already have special you almost always take pos keepsake in aspho
For what?
They already have tidal dash
Unless i just miss interpreted
proper furnace
I wouldnt force pos for those in eris but i can see why
proper furnace
I wouldnt force pos for those in eris but i can see why
But tbf i just bank on clockets so i dont need beaver for styx
cunning urchin
lol so this really sucks. i was typing and accidentally pulled the hades window...
There are steps to recover a save in #h1-tech-fixes.
soft kiln
There are steps to recover a save in <#675070621075374090>.
oh i could have gone back to the shop? i just restarted the run and let whatever happen happen
that was a fantastic start though dang
iron barn
Take plume if you have attack+special+dash
really??? why?
soft kiln
is there something that makes rush delivery work without having it's requirements? other than plume?
epic rush delivery with only plume ends up being just a few % right? or is it actually common to get a large amount from it?
tight basin
I think getting rd is just more high roll than finding hs?
Also considering that both of those boons don't do too much for you damage wise until you get the other
lucid oar
Still increases the chances of seeing the combo significantly
lucid oar
is there something that makes rush delivery work without having it's requirement...
Yeah it still only works with extra move speed, but the fact that you’ll have the chance to see the boon for both Hermes is the appeal
soft kiln
Yeah it still only works with extra move speed, but the fact that you’ll have th...
on the off chance that hypersprint is in the second one but not the first?
lucid oar
Yes
soft kiln
that's better than other keepsakes?
lucid oar
By a fair amount yeah
Taking either Poseidon or Artemis doesn’t make sense to me, you’ve already filled 3/4 of your pool so it’s highly likely you’ll see those boons again
RD is core to getting loads of damage
(or clockets)
soft kiln
beo run and i have aphro cast and poseidon dash
got forced into ares
rare curse of agon, epic curse of pain, epic curse of vengeance
i'm not really sure what to do
i guess vengeance is the one that will mess with the build the least
plain river
Sweet, and I don’t think aphrodite cast is bad on beowulf
soft kiln
i'm on beowolf
plain river
rare curse of agon, epic curse of pain, epic curse of vengeance
Did you not see any supporting ares boons?
proper furnace
Just take vengeance and sell
plain river
Free money and it doesn’t get in the way of your cores
soft kiln
will aphro cast on beowolf trigger heart rend? or will the attack hit before the spells and they won't be weak yet
soft kiln
we were just talking about forcing artemis so i figured that was obvious sorry
plain river
No
soft kiln
arte attack aphro cast
plain river
Good
It won’t on the cast unless you have a form of triggering crits like pressure points, hunters mark, or arte/dio duo
But uh ngl it’d be nice on your bullrush
soft kiln
i was asking if the bullrush portion would benefit from heart rend because the attack hits before the spell goes off and makes them weak doesn't it?
or does it all happen at once
plain river
Well
It won’t trigger on your initial bullrush
But since weak is a status effect that has a duration it should prok second bullrush
But honestly it depends on the other available boons
soft kiln
oh i haven't been offered it yet i just wanted to know for the future
i guess i take hunter instinct over deadly flourish and common hunter's mark? i know hunter's mark is good but common is really low
and i'm never pressing the special button
plain river
Heart rend isn’t doing much for you here unless you’ve hunters mark
Take hunters mark
soft kiln
even common?
plain river
Yes
strange lark
hunters instinct is the one that gives you call charge on crits right?
that one sucks
take mark
plain river
hunters instinct is the one that gives you call charge on crits right?
Yeah
soft kiln
so don't hope for a better one then ok
plain river
hunters instinct is the one that gives you call charge on crits right?
it’s even worse on something slow attacking like beowulf attack
soft kiln
hunter's mark doesn't do anything against a solitary opponent right
plain river
None of the bosses are solitary opponents
plain river
None of the bosses are solitary opponents
For the entire fight*
soft kiln
yeah that was just a mechanical question
i wasn't saying it's bad against x boss or something
plain river
But yes it does nothjng against a solitary opponent
I just wanted to clairify that it’d still be somewhat useful during hades fight
If you happen to crit against the bloodstone he shoots or minions he summons
random relic
None of the bosses are solitary opponents
im pretty sure tis and alecto are
dreamy prism
alecto can spawn stuff
dreamy prism
not much stuff
random relic
crazy
also alecto is my favorite of the furies atm
really easy in heat compared to tis/meg
dreamy prism
for gameplay reasons I'm sure
random relic
yes
dreamy prism
that makes one of us
plain river
for gameplay reasons I'm sure
Was about to say this 
stealing my words
dreamy prism
alecto in heat 😩
random relic
dreamy prism
🥺
plain river
alecto in heat 😩
/j
random relic
nah but imo alecto is easiest fury
dreamy prism
*
random relic
maybe thatll change in the future
dreamy prism
I like tis the most at high heat
random relic
and also constricts space a lot
random relic
plain river
i probably die to her the most
Yeah you’re the gamer who has died to tis the most
plain river
Pretty goodp
plain river
by what?
random relic
the fact that its a really damn difficult aspect to play lol
harder than hestia tbh
plain river
Does zag shield effect bullrush/charged shot bull rush?
plain river
proper furnace
@soft kiln you had mirage before eury?
proper furnace
Would personally took nectar there ye
Also huge before hermes
But ambrosia was fine tbh
Passion has big dmg anyways
proper furnace
@soft kiln about rarity
Chaos likes it/umpommables/hermes/doom/to an extend aphro attack (common is just sad) are the ones where rarity matters a lot
Others can just slap up some poms withoyt losing much
And using doom ln special isnt that bad at common cuz better pom scal8ng
dreamy prism
so for talos cod should I do ares or pos start
random relic
or are you doing some stupid 40 heat thing
dreamy prism
32 first then 40
dreamy prism
lmao
random relic
still ares start imo
random relic
if I don't take ares start I won't make it through tart
td2
dreamy prism
hm maybe for 32
dreamy prism
https://i.imgur.com/iXGX35Q.png rolling with this for now
dreamy prism
hm really
soft kiln
wow this convo has really opened my eyes
dreamy prism
I do like JS
soft kiln
i think i was making runs much harder by not taking commons
dreamy prism
yeah commons are fine usually
random relic
I do like JS
i love how you can just mess around with suboptimal pacts on 32 lol
soft kiln
better to have the ability and the opportunity to find the duos i need or whatever
dreamy prism
https://i.imgur.com/OQeUsXc.png gamer pact time
random relic
32 is such a good build sandbox
soft kiln
what is cod btw
dreamy prism
true
random relic
curse of drowning
soft kiln
oh
random relic
also a fish
soft kiln
gross
plain river
call of duty
random relic
https://i.imgur.com/OQeUsXc.png gamer pact time
too far
dreamy prism
I feel so weird using talos
random relic
you think youre going to get sub 5 minute tart on js3 talos?
dreamy prism
it's 32 heat so it's a big joke anyways
soft kiln
talos upset me
random relic
it's 32 heat so it's a big joke anyways
true
dreamy prism
regardless I'm back to JS1
soft kiln
because ares special doesn't doom everything it hits
random relic
yeah dont js3
soft kiln
you have to like actually touch them or something
random relic
you want ares on attack on fists
soft kiln
you want ares on attack on fists
yeah but i thought the magnetic cutter would get the effect
random relic
bad chaos
soft kiln
i was wrong
random relic
reset
random relic
yeah but i thought the magnetic cutter would get the effect
ah i see
ive never used talos so i wouldnt know lol
plain river
somehow you always assume something and it turns out wrong man, that's gotta be like huge levels of unluckiness
soft kiln
me?
plain river
yeah
soft kiln
lol
i just sort of expect things to work in the cool way
i donno i play a lot of magic
besides it literally says it turns your special into the magnetic cutter
to me it's obvious that would include all parts of hte special
the fact that it doesn't is somehow less intuitive to me
ok aspect of nemesis. i have flood shot and tidal dash so far
do i take frost flourish, snow burst, or frozen touch?
plain river
snow burst or frozen touch
plain river
you should be hoping to force aphro attack arte special
plain river
ping pong is pretty fun yeah
I'd die if I had to play talos with non-poseidon special
soft kiln
i donno completely dominating the battlefield with demeter is more fun
especially since magnetic cutter is just worse than advertised and i'll never forgive it >.<
proper furnace
then it's just ME build
Cherry on the speedrun server always takes cod if possible during ME runs iirc
soft kiln
you should be hoping to force aphro attack arte special
but heart rend
proper furnace
Most based gikga speedrunner
plain river
but heart rend
yes
heartrend still happens
nemesis has crit on attack
aphro is a beefer attack and applies the weaken so you don't even have to special
soft kiln
i kinda thought i just wanted to crit more often
plain river
well
soft kiln
cause you have to special anyway don't you
plain river
no?
proper furnace
Arty attack can scale harder
plain river
oh well actually yes
plain river
Arty attack can scale harder
I guess
soft kiln
lol
plain river
aphro attack= comfy, arte attack= chaos dependent
soft kiln
cant arte just scale with arte crit stuff?
plain river
heartrend > arte support boons
random relic
cant arte just scale with arte crit stuff?
nah it doesnt really provide much additive
random relic
i personally still prefer arty attack but idk
proper furnace
You love to see some big chaos on arty stuff anyway
plain river
y'know what
proper furnace
+100% dash strike dmg
plain river
hoarding slash doesn't scale with percentage boons but it's damage crits
random relic
does it?
plain river
it's weird
random relic
kinda wack
plain river
it's like the hoarding slash damage is added after the additive multipliers and before the crit multipier
iirc from when I played a game with way too many obols
random relic
thats weird af
plain river
because I was looking at the damage I was doing and it was like I have a +100% from aphrodite strike, where my +200 damage at? but nooo... it was only adding +100
but then on crits it was big
plain river
no it doesn't
but using some brain math my damage on a normal attack should've been like 260 if the aphrodite strike modifier was counted
it was only hitting for like 160
but on crits it was in the 450-500 ballpark
although this was a while back
and yes I had 2000 obols 
🔫
random relic
it was only hitting for like 160
bruh
desert pendant
So the aphrodite boon was doubling base damage to 60, then the hammer was adding +100?
random relic
thats so bad
plain river
So the aphrodite boon was doubling base damage to 60, then the hammer was adding...
if memory serves that was what was happening
desert pendant
Okay, i would definitely take a common artemis attack over even a heroic aphro in that case then. Thanks for the tip!
soft kiln
can eury embrosia effect chaos boons?
soft kiln
ambrosia*
dreamy prism
wtf
soft kiln
i have epic artemis attack, epic poseidon cast and dash, a common chaos attack boon, and epic greater haste
any chance ambrosia is correct here
or just go nectar
soft kiln
got it
random relic
btw arty attack is like one of the worst scaling boons with rarity in the game
and with poms
soft kiln
there's a whole boon list i donno why it can't just show the values at each rarity
random relic
arty attack just doesnt scale lol, its there for the crits
plain river
if only rarity scaled the crit% rather then the additive percent
random relic
if only rarity scaled the crit% rather then the additive percent
😔 ik
would be so nice
soft kiln
need a spreadsheet when i should just be able to see the info
plain river
tbf
all you really need to know is the descending order of the boon %'s
because artemis is the only one that scales horrendously
the exact scaling isn't really necessary to know
soft kiln
i'm not sure i follow
plain river
whatever
soft kiln
i mean i don't understand not htat i don't agree
plain river
if you want to see information on the different rarities without installing mods you can just check the hades wiki
plain river
i mean i don't understand not htat i don't agree
doesn't change my whatever, I'd still be in-cohesive if I tried to rephrase it
soft kiln
sure it does. i interpreted that as being frustrated/annoyed at me for disagreeing :p
now you're frustrated/annoyed at yourself
plain river
I am frustrated and annoyed at myself
somehow I got myself an ear infection
come on body
fight it better
white blood cells should just be able to go up and punch it away
soft kiln
i could list hte plethora of ways my body decided to not function since the day i was born if that would make you feel any better :p
for example: i have externally rotated hips
nothing is working mechanically
plain river
this has nothing to do with builds anymore
soft kiln
ok so i just didn't know what boon % was
soft kiln
ohhh
i can see why rarity would make it scale badly now with a low starting %, assuming all of them increase uniformly
plain river
rarity and poms scale really bad on artemis compared to aphrodite where they scale pretty well
soft kiln
i knew poms were proportional to rarity, i didn't know they were proportional to the base
plain river
poms aren't proportional to rarity
proper furnace
Poms are based on common
random relic
yeah poms dont change by rarity
proper furnace
1st pom on aphro attack is always 20% for example
soft kiln
oh i saw a youtube video and it was wrong
or i misunderstood it
probably the more likely scenario
plain river
I mean it probably depends on the content creator for if it's you or them who had the misunderstanding
soft kiln
are the poms uniform then? just X% of the common bonus?
proper furnace
Always the same
proper furnace
Wet dash first pom is 21 then etc etc
soft kiln
i mean is 20 for aphro some exact proportion of her common? or is it just an arbitrary number and it's lower for lower starting % attacks
plain river
i think its an arbitrary number
think so as well
soft kiln
how exactly does rarity scale?
plain river
linearly
soft kiln
is it like 1.25x or something
plain river
linearly and arbitrarily I think
proper furnace
I think is listed on the wiki for each god? Tho idk how exactly true it is
random relic
I think is listed on the wiki for each god? Tho idk how exactly true it is
same for each god actually
soft kiln
it's arbitrary but still proportional to starting %? what a strange design choice
plain river
yeah hades wiki is accurate for individual boon rarity scaling
well greater haste goes +20% move speed up to +50% at heroic right
proper furnace
Probably balanced around how good they considered the effects
Tho at the same time tempest strike exists
soft kiln
ok so it isn't arbitrary
plain river
1.8-2.0 kinda arbitrary
random relic
i mean they are kinda arbitrary but its just the same for everything
plain river
and then other boons have set amounts
random relic
flat damage scaling is not the same on everything btw
obviously lol
that only applies for %s
soft kiln
i guess we should agree on what arbitrary means, but i meant a number that is not related to the base value at all
whereas based on the picture above, none of it is
random relic
im meaning arbitrary as in doesnt have any special meaning
plain river
im meaning arbitrary as in doesnt have any special meaning
that's what I've been using it as
random relic
if they had said epic aphro attack was 90%-100% itd be the exact same thing and just an arbitrary number that they decided was good
the wiki just calls it 1.8x-2x
but yeah the only important thing to know is the % hierarchies, you gain knowledge on when to pom by playing the game a lot
soft kiln
so 1.8 is just 180%?
random relic
most of the time theres never any explicit rules you just kinda do what feels right
soft kiln
or is it 90% x 1.8
plain river
?
soft kiln
ok so my confusion here was i thought that was for all attacks but that's just the aphro attack
random relic
yeah its 1.8-2x for all attacks
soft kiln
does that mean that on some runs it'll be 1.8 and on some runs it'll be 2?
random relic
yep
plain river
yup
random relic
its random in between that range
soft kiln
huh ok
proper furnace
Jolted also varies a bit iirc
random relic
even though it literally has almost no actual impact on the gameplay
random relic
Jolted also varies a bit iirc
yeah, it does
oh what
jolted has the same multiplier thing
i give up
some things have it and some things dont ig
all %s do though
soft kiln
so the tier 2 abilities don't really seem to have uniform scaling because they are all so different
like between gods
random relic
well it depend on the thing
soft kiln
but i guess anything that is % based will always scale better if it starts higher
random relic
some things will have random scaling like that and some not
proper furnace
At least bring back rav will being +30% dmg regardless of rarity
soft kiln
some of these just looking at the values i cna't really tell if they scale well
like does lightning strike scale with rarity well? heroic is double common
but is that even that good
plain river
Rarity doesn’t really matter unless a boon isn’t pommable
random relic
i mean it does matter sometimes
like aphro attack
you always want rarity on aphro attack
and special
on lightning strike? rarity is pretty good
doesnt make or break a build but epic attack is always pretty nice to have
the thing is you end up pomming it once or twice anyways so it just gets to be 17 vs 22
tight basin
common atk aphro always makes me sad but i'm too lazy to go back to the courtyard and pick a weapon that doesn't need the atk at the start
random relic
e+r+f+1
tight basin
oh is that the mod shortcut
soft kiln
hot damn epic addled strike
tight basin
that's convenient
random relic
changes the seed
tight basin
oh that's actually really nice
next time i'll just quick reset for epic flood flare lol
tight basin
okay but purple is a nice color
random relic
yeah but resetting still wastes time
tight basin
true lmao
soft kiln
what mod gives you a quick reset
tight basin
speedrun mod
soft kiln
also how does yarn of ariadne interact with nectar
soft kiln
speedrun mod
i didn't see that perusing nexus. is it elsewhere?
plain river
also how does yarn of ariadne interact with nectar
it doesn't
soft kiln
ok so refreshing nectar increases the rarity right of the next 3 and yarn is the next 1
do they stack up to epic, or does it just add another one? or what
plain river
just add another one
so
it'll wait for the next boon you see I think
it literally just makes the lowest rarity you can see be blue instead of common and raises the chances for purple/legendary/duo
random relic
i didn't see that perusing nexus. is it elsewhere?
bottom of the page
it allows you to see all 4 core boons for the first boon, guarantees a specific hammer for your first hammer, removes some minibosses (barge, asterius, and tiny vermin), guarantees you a 2 sack, and shows fountain rooms
as well as a few qol features like a hell mode toggle and colorblind mode
tight basin
oh that explains why i dont see asterius miniboss lol
random relic
oh that explains why i dont see asterius miniboss lol
anyway all of the features in it are togglable
its very great and super totally poggers
soft kiln
sweet thank you
so aspect of nemesis, epic arti attack, epic chaos attack boon
hunter's mark or clean kill
plain river
hunters mark
soft kiln
k
plain river
clean kill is negligible
tight basin
aspect or boon lol
plain river
a standard fist build is Merciful end, where you pick up doom strike, and athena special+dash and hope for the duo but I usually enjoy aphrodite special, dionysus attack and arte cast then try to hit every duo boon
tight basin
zeus atk and aprho spcl for smair is also good
plain river
that too
your deflects drop doom instantly
you need an ares strike or special and and athena strike or special for it but the athena dash is so that you can just dash strike
breaching cross and kinetic launcher
rush kick can replace kinetic launcher
tight basin
explosive upper is good as well
valid dagger
Nope
hexed lagoon
Ok so just unlocked aspect of nemesis and bc of the crit buff, I want for an Artemis-oriented run. Is this good and what other gods should I go for with certain aspects. If there's a wiki for this if be happy to read it all myself
proper wharf
Artmeis is good alongside aphro and athena for the crit duos.
dreamy prism
nah but sea storm is always good since zeus attack and poseidon dash are already great picks
that's pretty much ideal
arty benefits the most from eris's global buff of all the non flat damage gods
random relic
add special hammers (clockets is best but hard to get) and good hermes and youve got a very solid build
dreamy prism
"very solid"
random relic
what
what are the quotes for
i mean clockets makes it completely broken but otherwise i think its just a great build
random relic
ok yeah i suppose i understated it a bit lol
eris kinda cracked
who knew 75% global damage was good
dreamy prism
wait rare perma RD good??
worldly stream
What is a good zag fists build
dreamy prism
What is a good zag fists build
ME is always good
worldly stream
Merciful end?
valid dagger
Yes
dreamy prism
yep
random relic
ME is always good
no, YOU