Is the reason Rama is so good at high heat partly because it can take DC2 fairly painlessly with good play?
#h1-high-heat-strategies
unique zephyr
gaunt fiber
really aggressive play on the real witches, first wave will be tough, the second one will be ok if you spawn kill
mossy zinc
DC2 and JS being so free for Rama is part of the reason, yeah.
spice lava
The Rama's mechanic itself is made to face groups so JS doesn't have that much impact compared to others aspects
- the special is good against DC2
mossy zinc
I'd also say it suffers far less than other aspects from CP because Rama laughs at damage breakpoints by overkilling CP0 and CP1 routinely anyway.
unique zephyr
I like how Rama has a high skill cap, and you can squeeze so much out of it with optimising it
I enjoy learning how it plays even if I’m not very good at it yet
I did 32 Rama with hyper delivery but struggling with 40
I also really like how it feels when things go right
And it feels like a flow state
mossy zinc
For Seeker Witches, I'd say stick somewhat close to the walls, so that their projectiles break on the walls instead of circling around and pursuing you.
But that's like just a rule of thumb.
And for Cloners, find the real ones asap and eliminate them asap. Clones don't matter for the most part.
Although sometimes depending on your aspect, the safest way can be to just quickly eliminate all the clones.
As most things, it's just a lot of experience and intuition.
spice lava
tbh Bacchus I think that you only need to play and dedicate your time to Rama if you want some results, you heard enough theories and tips about the aspect imo
mossy zinc
Probably overcomplicating the aspect a lot, too. Just pe-pe-pew things with your Special, then kaboom with your Attack. Easy peasy. 
spice lava
We can talk about Rama for hours but some things can be really understood by playing a lot
bright mango
Rama, fists, and sword are all weapons that require intuition and good knowledge of the game and enemy movements
unique zephyr
Yeah. I’ve been busy yesterday but I’ll play as much as I can with my health issues
I have trouble with all of those 😛
I don’t like fists or sword though
So I’m putting them off
I’ll just play more sorry if I annoyed some of you
unique zephyr
Probably overcomplicating the aspect a lot, too. Just *pe-pe-pew* things with yo...
I tend to do this with things in general tbh
spice lava
It's not about annoying anyone
mossy zinc
You do lol.
spice lava
It's about you losing confidence because you ask too much about Rama when some answers will appear naturally by training
unique zephyr
That has been happening to me. Does this apply to sword and fists too? I want to eventually clear 40 with them too but they scare me now
mossy zinc
Scared of what?
Worst that happens is you die and go again.
And you probably learned something in the process.
¯_(ツ)_/¯
bright mango
Ye just dying helps
mossy zinc
Rama, fists, and sword are all weapons that require intuition and good knowledge...
I don't know about putting an aspect that can phase bosses in 1-2 shots with no boons in the same category as Sword or Fists. 
spice lava
I suck with fists and sword as well but I accept the fact that our individual skills aren't good nor equal with the same weapons and if I want to learn them I will need some time, my 53 heat Hestia clear doesn't matter with that
bright mango
I don't know about putting an aspect that can phase bosses in 1-2 shots with no ...
I wasn’t talking about it’s damage output, but it’s general playstyle
spice lava
Our ability here to clear high heat temperature doesn't come from nowhere, everyone built it
And we built it by dying a lot
And if I remember, you still want to do 24x32 before thinking about 40 sword or fists 👀
unique zephyr
I do
I’m only interested in Rama 40 right now
But yeah 24 x 32
I tried lucifer rail a bit but couldn’t feel out the aspect
mossy zinc
I wasn’t talking about it’s damage output, but it’s general playstyle
I know.
honest kernel
rama was never hard to me its just as hard as any bow idk
mossy zinc
m saying the fact it has ridiculous damage output kind of undermines your point.
honest kernel
in any way if youre not good with rama then practice and become "good" I did that with sword and fists 
waxen relic
I never learned the spots for using the attack on Rama worked too
honest kernel
or just do a special build and call it a day 🛏️
waxen relic
This is reminding me to push Weaponless to 40 Heat
waxen relic
I used Rama
waxen relic
Could use like Nem, ZagSpear, Achilles, Hades, Bows except Hera etc
unique zephyr
rama was never hard to me its just as hard as any bow idk
I have 40 with zag bow but not Rama yet
I found zag bow easier to get the rhythm of and easier to avoid taking damage
honest kernel
youre clearly struggling with it yeah
unique zephyr
How did you stop struggling with sword and fists
Do most people have a weapon they struggle with even if they like it
And I find 40 hard in general but still
I’ll stop psyching myself out and play
mossy zinc
How did you stop struggling with sword and fists
Practice, practice, practice. 
unique zephyr
I guess if I’m dying a lot even in Tartarus that’s a normal part of learning
mossy zinc
It is.
unique zephyr
I only started dying in Tartarus often when I turned up the heat lol
shy plinth
About 3 weeks after I went 6x32
It was fun relearning the weapons I hadn't seen touched with a base level of skill in the game, the zag aspects took a while as did non Arthur swords
Though "how long" should include 5 months of playing to git gud lol
It was difficult of course but 32 feels pretty normal now
quartz mantle
I've done 6x32 but haven't done 24x32 cause it just doesn't seem fun to me personally
halcyon flame
Do most people have a weapon they struggle with even if they like it
i struggled with hera, then i sub 12'd with it, then i easily cleared 32 heat with it 
like nyaanyaa said it's all practice
i might actually use hera for 40 heat bow, i've grown to like it
unique zephyr
i struggled with hera, then i sub 12'd with it, then i easily cleared 32 heat wi...
This is really inspiring 🙂
how do you break out of a slump?
i feel like I'm in a hades slump right now idk
dusty bramble
I also sucks with sword and fists but it's fine
unique zephyr
My first 32 heat clear was only back in late February so I'll cut myself some slack since I have improved a lot since then
mossy zinc
You're too focused on achievement and not enough on learning.
Or simply having fun, in fact.
spice lava
Ask your questions after you played a lot and not before, or your vortex will never end
mossy zinc
Most people who've done what you want to do just simply have way more hours in the game than you.
bronze viper
You're also playing on a health-imposed suboptimal play schedule. You're already wayyy above par for improvement per day
halcyon flame
i feel like I'm in a hades slump right now idk
i think a good way to get yourself to do hard challenges is to just do other things that you may want to do first, some smaller challenges before getting back to the grind and see how you've improved since then
doing sub 12 all weapons just somehow made 24x32 a breeze for me because doing a challenge that involves all 6 weapons can really help you get a feel for each one
bronze viper
Or other games, etc.
unique zephyr
I keep having timer issues with Rama
unique zephyr
You're also playing on a health-imposed suboptimal play schedule. You're alread...
That is true, I need to keep that in mind
bronze viper
It's just a function of efficient play. Rama is really weird to optimize. You'll get faster the more you play and the better openings you learn to find in each room.
Every room and combination of enemies has a different "optimal" approach for Rama, it's a lot.
unique zephyr
i have some interest in speedrunning but not as much as high heat
i have other aspects I could try to 32
spice lava
You can explore a lot by doing 24x32 or 24x40, you can bullrush like me and get your first 50 clear in 2 months, it's up to you how you want to have fun but you don't have to put pressure on your own improvement
unique zephyr
i think a good way to get yourself to do hard challenges is to just do other thi...
This is a good idea, I have been thinking that randomized lower heat could be fun
spice lava
If you need to slow down because of school or injuries or whatever, no one will blame you for that
halcyon flame
i could try going for mirrorless + boonless
unique zephyr
you know, zag shield 32 interests me
need some idea for builds
doom special?
zag shield was my first clear
but i haven't really touched it since then
halcyon flame
the "boonless" aspect could be a real problem because i can't just roll away boons
zag shield is deadly strike plus uhh
pulverizing blow is very strong on zag shield
spice lava
I thought you wanted Rama 40 first? 🤔
halcyon flame
charge shot is also good because it's charge shot and it apparently also deals increased damage
dashing wallop is also great
unique zephyr
I thought you wanted Rama 40 first? 🤔
I need some variety since I've been grinding that for so long
just a break from that
halcyon flame
personally i think you should definitely get pulverizing blow on zag shield
unique zephyr
I find that sometimes grinding too long on one thing means I need to do something else
spice lava
Well unless you really want to clear Rama 40, finishing 24x32 is the first homework before being interested in doing 24x40
unique zephyr
I meant zag shield 32
I was returning to 24 x 32
and putting off Rama 40
is what I meant
I'm not doing zag shield 40
spice lava
Ok ok
mossy zinc
c29 mid-shop, c30 mid-boss, every goddamn time. 
halcyon flame
yeah it can't be that bad
honest kernel
curse of speedrunners
halcyon flame
are you trying to get sub 7 hera or something
what's next, a 3 sack? 4 sack, perhaps? 
mossy zinc
I reset at Tiny Vermin.
halcyon flame
honest kernel
dont you love it when tiny vermin does a 30second animation before it becomes vulnerable
halcyon flame
people complaining about vermin all the time meanwhile i almost oneshotted it with rama
unique zephyr
I already have 8 aspects I did 32 heat or higher in looking at the records...not bad for only 2 months since first 32 heat
halcyon flame
been 3 months since my first 32 heat and since then i've done 24x32 and 40 heat
could be worse
mossy zinc
dont you love it when tiny vermin does a 30second animation before it becomes vu...
No. 
ashen garnet
AP2 forcing Draining Cutter at Elysium taught me otherwise 
dusty bramble
Sure footing can reduce poison and magma?
mossy zinc
Draining Cutter works with LC4 now because I asked for it.
ashen garnet
How did you stop struggling with sword and fists
It's not a struggle if your run dies but you learn something 
Watching your own recordings to understand where things went bad or when you took damage whereas you shouldn't had, about having good positioning and such really helped me since I went for 40+ fists
ashen garnet
Draining Cutter works with LC4 now because I asked for it. <:squirtdevious:47212...
Thank you for blessing some of my runs Nyaanyaa 
halcyon flame
Sure footing can reduce poison and magma?
it reduces magma damage but i'm not sure about poison, it hardly seems to count as a trap
there's the puddles and whatever those poison gas things are called
mossy zinc
They're called poison gas things.
devout quiver
solemn pulsar
actually in the code they're called barfy gates
distant cradle
What u guys think is a good pact for 32 heat beo
Thinking of taking lc4 and td1
And em2 but idk beyond that
mossy zinc
HL5 LC4 EM2 BP2 MM FO2 HS TD3.
quartz mantle
UC doesn’t really hurt Beo too much honestly
quartz mantle
Td3 isn’t that scary you just kinda gotta get used to it
Play fast, choose free rooms all the times
distant cradle
But 5 minutes
quartz mantle
It’s 20 minute clears
mossy zinc
UC doesn’t really hurt Beo too much honestly
Between MM and UC, might as well take MM and let your build snowball.
distant cradle
That gives me 31 heat?
mossy zinc
Did you miss Heightened Security, perhaps?
quartz mantle
Or just take both
distant cradle
No I got that
Hl5 lc4 em2 bp2 mm fo2 hs and td3
Wut u guys think, dio or aphro beo?
mossy zinc
Passion Flare for sure.
mossy zinc
Infernal.
pseudo kernel
Stygian only works well with dio cast, dem cast, and ares cast
distant cradle
Instead of dd
pseudo kernel
Probs keep SD on
Yeah you need it for lc4
pseudo kernel
I guess
mossy zinc
Er, Infernal Soul* lol sorry got distracted. Stubborn Defiance yes is what I meant to write.
distant cradle
Oki
mossy zinc
Fiery, yes.
pseudo kernel
Casts won't deal any extra damage tho
shy plinth
Why em2 nyaanyaa
pseudo kernel
Why em2 nyaanyaa
They don't like em3
distant cradle
So I'll probs just do Cf1 for the last heat
quartz mantle
You can take points off of HL
mossy zinc
Solo Asterius is what ends a lot of high heat runs preemptively. Don't underestimate EM3.
quartz mantle
EM3 let’s you take 3 points off of HL
distant cradle
Hmm I'ma try uc and hl4 so I get 32
quartz mantle
UC is not that bad as long as you have Dark Foresight
shy plinth
What's the highest heat you've cleared before?
quartz mantle
Eh
shy plinth
It's doable but just be prepared is all
quartz mantle
And Beo is a very strong weapon
mossy zinc
UC on a cast build is eh when you can avoid it. Your build can snowball so much higher without UC.
unique zephyr
I jumped from 16 to 32
distant cradle
UC on a cast build is eh when you can avoid it. Your build can snowball so much ...
Idk wut to take then besides that
Cause I'm stuck at 31
quartz mantle
I honestly enjoy UC most of the time cause it adds another thing to think about when playing
distant cradle
Hl4 lc4 em 2 bp2 mm UC fo2 hs td3
quartz mantle
Making sure you get at least 1 throwaway boon is a neat thing to think about
distant cradle
Rn for my 32
mossy zinc
I don't know why you're stuck at 31. The pact I gave you is 32 Heat. You must have missed something.
quartz mantle
LC 5
distant cradle
Lol
quartz mantle
Fountains now damage you
pseudo kernel
Fountains now damage you
No the game forces you to play with gy
unique zephyr
GY heals you though
quartz mantle
LC5, all those healing things that work in LC4 no longer work
unique zephyr
GY still heals you with LC4
quartz mantle
Guan Yu players in shambles
unique zephyr
I did GY 32 so can confirm
pseudo kernel
Wait I just realized you can still heal
unique zephyr
cursed slash not working with dash strikes is baffling
mossy zinc
Draining Cutter is great for mirrorless.
gaunt fiber
Works with maim if anyone is interested (which I doubt)
gaunt fiber
Beep boop
shy plinth
What if it's heartbreak flourish maim
gaunt fiber
Aspect of Gilnyaamesh
shy plinth
Hahahaha
mossy zinc
ashen garnet
Works with maim if anyone is interested (which I doubt)
I see greatness with Explosive Upper and Curse of Pain
gaunt fiber
Greatness hmmm
mossy zinc
"For once"? 
gaunt fiber
CHOP
mossy zinc
Cursed Slash, of course.
ashen garnet
Immortality at almost no costs
gaunt fiber
Nemesis with cursed slash might be worse than Gilgamesh
ashen garnet
Greatness hmmm
TD2 greatness alas
gaunt fiber
I wonder actually
mossy zinc
Cursed Slash is the best pick out of those.
gaunt fiber
For the Guan Yu feeling?
ashen garnet
So for sword my chamber 1 hammers: Cursed Slash, World Splitter, Flurry Slash
C H O P (World Splitter) and Aphro/Arty attack
gaunt fiber
I don't remember if World splitter messes up with dash strikes
Like flurry does
But it's a rather fun hammer
For like one chamber then it's boring
unique zephyr
Man I suck with Nem sword lol
the only combo I know is special to two dash strikes
gaunt fiber
You don't need more
You just need to understand you can't spam it and hoping to live
mossy zinc
Faster.
shy plinth
It's a big jump, especially on FO2 HL5
This is the pact I used for every aspect
Might be easier than dealing with HL5 if you're not used to it
unique zephyr
I use that pact too
It’s a good pact for eventually pushing to 40 heat too since you’re getting used to TD3 and FO2
shy plinth
I found HL5 to be really punishing when I wasn't used to FO2
But HL1 was a lot less painful
unique zephyr
Same, HL5 is so much damage
shy plinth
It ramps up really easily to 40 by going HL5, CF2, and then really whatever you want
Usually JS or DC
shy plinth
I haven't tried HS yet
shy plinth
Post imgur links
unique zephyr
This is my usual 40 heat pact
This is how I avoid approval process
This is my 40 heat Rama pact I’m trying, same as Tail’s speedrun pact
I hope those links work don’t know why the image isn’t showing
unique zephyr
I haven't tried HS yet
It’s punishing but at least it doesn’t directly slow you down and it makes it a bit easier to lose SD
I want to avoid approval process at all costs if I can
shy plinth
You want to link directly to an image, not a gallery
You shouldn't need AP at 40 right
I would rather go CF2 than HS I think
And then for weapons that don't like DC just go JS
unique zephyr
Not sure how to link to just the picture on mobile
I do CF2 and HS
I prefer JS1 over JS2 because I’m bad at timer
shy plinth
Ah
unique zephyr
Also I don’t like longer rooms in general
More time to make mistakes
Also if I ever push above 40 might as well get used to HS anyway
Why won’t imgur give me the direct link 😦
Only the gallery one
shy plinth
Go to posts, click share, click copy, then after you paste it add .png to the end
mossy zinc
Don't take AP2 at 50.
unique zephyr
Why not JS3 over AP2?
I don’t play 50 though, but I thought Rama handled JS3 okay
Am I wrong that AP1 JS3 is better than AP2 or am I overestimating AP2
waxen relic
should depend on your and your weapons reliance on Hammers and Build, though you can reset for a specific hammer if you want (or seed)
honest kernel
ap1 js3 is def prefered on rama for me but I think ya-gg took out pacts that make rooms slow on purpose
spice lava
Well I'm learning Rama so I just let AP2 guiding me for the moment
Got 2 runs which died in Elysium: This one and another one with Explosive Shot
honest kernel
😔
spice lava
JS0 allows me to train more the bosses
honest kernel
explosive is a trap on rama I swear
spice lava
Well, 0 twin shot/triple last night, happens 😄
@unique zephyr I'm learning Rama so JS3+DC2+TD3 is a bit much if my objective is to train the most biomes possible
unique zephyr
<@266732686838595606> I'm learning Rama so JS3+DC2+TD3 is a bit much if my objec...
Ah ok that makes sense then, how well does Rama handle AP2
Relative to other aspects
spice lava
Let's say that AP2 decides your build so most of the time your DPS can be weird or different because of boons or hammers you don't use a lot, so AP2 forces you to learn flexibility
waxen relic
Rama has okay damage and the ability to strip DC without anything
spice lava
I'm not sure your question makes sense, AP2 is increasing the RNG you need to have a decent build
spice lava
Rama doesn't need that much boons in that way
But AP2 can mess up your main boons/plans if you have bad luck
Like any other aspect
honest kernel
spice lava
"No please not again... NOT AGAIN"
honest kernel
demeter is just sad
unique zephyr
What are the gimmick builds? Meme beam with TD2?
honest kernel
building around beam or things like artic blast based stuff
snow burst exists tho for cast weapons
hm,m
I dont think dem core is bad it just feels worse than other options usually
chill w killing freeze is rly good
waxen relic
Chill on it's own is pretty nice actually as effect
honest kernel
and shes gonna troll you with her trash t1 boons
halcyon flame
demeter isn't the worst high heat god
waxen relic
but the T1 are the problem
honest kernel
she is imo
unique zephyr
Which god is?
halcyon flame
i guess she doesn't really offer much but chill totally negates fo2
though i've only really bothered taking dem boons when i'm doing a castspect run
honest kernel
dem gets worse the more pacts you have to take
unique zephyr
Snow burst is a good beo boon true
honest kernel
chances get lower that you get what you want from her
unique zephyr
I can’t think of anything else though
She has two boons you can’t even sell
At least two I can think of
honest kernel
yeah
waxen relic
Rav Will is good too
unique zephyr
One of which does literally nothing with LC4
honest kernel
true rav will is nice
halcyon flame
ravenous will on hera/beo 
waxen relic
Rav on RI3
halcyon flame
ravenous will is the poor man's boiling blood
halcyon flame
except it has damage reduction and is global
honest kernel
poseidon is arguably terrible bc of his boon pool but he has dash and call so
halcyon flame
honestly poseidon's general boon pool does suck
unique zephyr
I used to not like dio except call but drunken dash is okay
It helps vs savior enemies
halcyon flame
but he has mirage shot and dash lmao
tidal dash is like divine dash for experienced players
unique zephyr
Is sea storm ever not a meme build in high heat
Hunter dash on sword and bow though
halcyon flame
you always take it unless you're using a close-range weapon
unique zephyr
Although on sword hunter dash is super risky
honest kernel
I def prefer divine both dashes offer different things after all
sea storm is kindof a meme tbh
because the run usually doesnt even get going
honest kernel
this is me trying to build supersoaker on 45 and realizing its completly garbage until you get insane luck
unique zephyr
If I have another dash I take phalanx shot just to get a DD
I never tried a sea storm build
honest kernel
like seastorm in tart or early asphodel
halcyon flame
i tried putting it on for a td2 32 heat pact with chaos shield and it just immediately crossed out epic drunken flourish
unique zephyr
But I won’t need to until 45
honest kernel
ap1 is pretty chill with ri0 bc rerolls
honest kernel
seastorms issue is that its not as good as...just doing zeus core right away
it can be a nice boon on the side tho
halcyon flame
wouldn't it be better to just go for triple bomb with arty special on luci
honest kernel
thats a good build but who nothing gurantees me triple bomb
halcyon flame
tons of damage, though i did get x3 chaos flourish that one time so it may have had a slight effect on dps
waxen relic
instead of highrolling Seastorm you could just highroll like Splitting Bolt
honest kernel
yeah
I mean keep in mind I did supersoaker to experiment w it
if I wanted to win lucy 45 I could just do a good build
like zeus
shy plinth
MORT?
honest kernel
what a pact
vernal stirrup
I am sad. I got really nice boons for Rama on 32 heat, was just gonna fight theseus and then boom, crashed.
honest kernel
game autosaves all the time no?
mossy zinc
There are steps to recover your save in #h1-tech-fixes.
Yeah, it does.
The temp save in that chamber is still there if you haven't started another escape yet.
honest kernel
yeah sould be okay then 👍
mossy zinc
If they're not on Switch.
gentle lantern
im doing 32 heat nemesis, any tips?
ive tried before but i always lose :(
does this look good for the heat?
honest kernel
hm do you know the basic sword dash strike combo
gentle lantern
no?
honest kernel
you always wanna dash strike and it chains into itself with how many dashes you have
basic attack is really really bad with sword
gentle lantern
good to know
honest kernel
so you usually do like special, dash strike, dash strike
or else keep dash striking
gentle lantern
well with nem id do special first
i usually use a heart rend build but i think ill go for merciful end because clearly that hasnt been working
honest kernel
heart rend is okay, me is also good yeah
I usually empty special with nem at the staart of each room
and then go for dash strikes
mossy zinc
The Sword Combos/Technique section here has some good sword tips. https://www.speedrun.com/hades/guide/0oado
Take off DC, take TD3 and LC4 with Stubborn Defiance.
gentle lantern
i always die in the hades fight and not really earlier on so i find dd works better for me
pseudo kernel
you should take off dc and put on td2 if you dont wanna do lc4 sd
mossy zinc
Yeah, at the very least take off DC2 and take TD2.
gentle lantern
nah i usually use pat or cerb keepsake for the last level
gentle lantern
Yeah, at the very least take off DC2 and take TD2.
aight
honest kernel
take acorn if you have issues with hades then
mossy zinc
TD3 will let you take off 3 Heat somewhere else, too, like FO0 instead of FO1.
FO0 helps a lot with not getting hit.
honest kernel
hs also might make hades harder than he needs to be
bright mango
take off DC2 if someone has not said it already
quartz mantle
pseudo kernel
wait a minute
gentle lantern
stop
pseudo kernel
im blocking you
mossy zinc
You can't block me, I have piercing.
honest kernel
exclusive access in boonless?
ashen garnet
Take off EM3
mossy zinc
Are you asking if Exclusive Access is allowed?
honest kernel
yeah i just got it
mossy zinc
Hmm. You do benefit from the boon in the sense that you get more money from boons you sell... @daring hedge what do you think?
ashen garnet
Helps having more obols for HP/wells economy, was wondering about Pos Ocean Bounty as well
honest kernel
if i dont see any boons till purge it wont be an issue anyway
mossy zinc
if i dont see any boons till purge it wont be an issue anyway
That's true.
mossy zinc
Helps having more obols for HP/wells economy, was wondering about Pos Ocean Boun...
If you somehow manage to not get any cash rewards after that, it's allowed. Darkness and Gemstones don't benefit your run in any way—unless you have Dark Regeneration, at least.
mossy zinc
if i dont see any boons till purge it wont be an issue anyway
Or you only pick up Duo Boons and Legendaries and unpurgeable boons that do nothing.
gentle lantern
should i go with world splitter or breaching slash
pseudo kernel
breaching
mossy zinc
how about not spending money anymore <:squirtooh:456913427240189965>
That works, too!
mossy zinc
money slash stonks
That does not.
ashen garnet
money slash stonks
Considered it too with DF, but I am a trash sword player
mossy zinc
You don't have to call it a trash sword. That's just mean.
ashen garnet
Well, I meant that one day I will take the time to learn how to properly wield sword aspects
I hope that some good sword players will try boonless hoarding with DF and golden touch
gentle lantern
df?
shy plinth
Dark Foresight
Which is a mirror talent that should always be on anyway unless you're running RI1 at 50 heat or whatever
mossy zinc
You probably shouldn't be running RI1 at 50 Heat.
daring hedge
Hmm. You do benefit from the boon in the sense that you get more money from boon...
I kinda want that to be allowed because it's such an edge case and it's honestly pretty clever lol
Not very exploitable
mossy zinc
Hmmm. But you do benefit from the boon.
daring hedge
You still benefit from boons anyways just by purging them though, right
This just makes that benefit more consistent for a time
mossy zinc
Yes, but making that benefit more consistent is more than other Duo Boons you would sell do.
dusty bramble
Imma ask if what duo boons have the highest damage for Adamant?
daring hedge
Eurydice in a roundabout way makes you also benefit more from your existing boons by increasing rarity
Or making rarity consistently higher
mossy zinc
Which is fine. Refreshing Nectar is not a boon.
daring hedge
Lol
gentle lantern
Eurydice in a roundabout way makes you also benefit more from your existing boon...
do u mean pom flower?
daring hedge
Nope, I mean Eurydice
mossy zinc
Imma ask if what duo boons have the highest damage for Adamant?
If you need an Adamant Rail guide, look no further. https://www.hades-guides.ovh/index.php/eris-rail-guide/
gentle lantern
OHH i thought u were talking about her keepsake
dusty bramble
If you need an Adamant Rail guide, look no further. https://www.hades-guides.ovh...
Woah thanks
quartz mantle
Just take nectar to dad fight
gentle lantern
heart rend is prob my fave duo cuz it works rly well on basically every weapon
what ab yall
mossy zinc
Refreshing Nectar and Yarn of Ariadne are not boons. Exclusive Access is a boon.
daring hedge
Is loyalty card a boon
mossy zinc
Loyalty Card is an item.
daring hedge
But it has a boon portrait unlike well items 
mossy zinc
I'd rather not allow benefitting from Exclusive Access to maintain the spirit of the challenge.
daring hedge
Fair enough
honest kernel
ok
gaunt fiber
unique zephyr
Merciful end works on every weapon
It also doesn’t feel very fun to me
And the build kind of sucks without ME
mossy zinc
It is.
pseudo kernel
epic
bright mango
no
gaunt fiber
checkmate atheist
honest kernel
I kinda just wanna use this as the thumbnail for my gilga run
gaunt fiber
I do not own that emote but I give you full credit anyway
bright mango
distant cradle
I am getting absolutely dropkicked by 32 heat lol
shy plinth
I warned you
It's a big adjustment
Took me a lot of tries even to get one clear
And a lot of practice to get comfortable with 32 as a baseline
unique zephyr
With Nemesis I time out in Heroes fight
it's happened twice now
I lose time in Elysium and that fight
Any tips for Nemesis heroes fight? Even with divine dash it's hard
true fable
dont get greedy
tempting because its a melee weapon and youre pressed for time, but greed kills
eternal hare
I didn't know the count could count up to 64
upbeat nimbus
Hades keeps just barely beating me and I'm on heat level 8 :/ very frustrating
solemn pulsar
is it rome day already? toga time
gaunt fiber
something something rome day
i got it poggies
shy plinth
The reference, I assume
gaunt fiber
I wish...
true fable
o
true fable
i fell asleep mid stream 😦
gaunt fiber
yes
We even could time precisely when
Just before a painful boonless asterius (but the electric shot)
I did a clean fight but it took 7 years
gaunt fiber
the rest of the stream was clowneries
you clearly watched my peak
because I was actually trying to play well not to disappoint you
gaunt fiber
wow
true fable
gaunt fiber
ok the name is a bit offensive
vernal stirrup
Ugh, I was so happy to finally get splitting bolt for 32 heat just before fighting minatour. Then he proceeded to accidentally kill me with the sideway waves. Can't believe that wave hit multiple times. I only got hit by it twice (killed me each time) during the encounter and I was immediately sent back to the pool.
vernal stirrup
Wanted to dash away but man...the angles caught me off guard.
bright forum
forget who i was talking to when i said idrc about high heat
but when you said "oh why dont i try 32 on all weaps"
yeah
i caught the bug
fml
mossy moon
Pact Level 14 Tips?
I'm going in with Aspect of Chaos
unique zephyr
I got to dad with Nemesis 32 with Rush Delivery + Hyper Sprint + Double Edge. And still died 😦
bright forum
@unique zephyr go for ME (merciful end) boyo
div dash, div special, ares attack
and pray
pray for ME
mossy zinc
Pact Level 14 Tips?
I'm going in with Aspect of Chaos
14 Heat is good for just trying out anything you like and getting experience with the different pacts.
mossy moon
I think I might try out a LVL 1 timer
halcyon flame
how long do your runs take on average?
mossy moon
short enough to where I could feasibly make it
halcyon flame
if it's anything below 36 mins, td1 is an easy take
mossy moon
although my OCD kicks in at the Styx and I just can't leave all those rooms undiscovered
mossy zinc
Looking at your times in #h1-victory-boasting, take TD2.
mossy zinc
Good luck!
halcyon flame
sooner or later you'll learn to take those 2 sacks whenever you get them
mossy moon
yeah true
I usually don't do the timers that's why I usually pull a Mr. Incredible and comment aloud about how I've got time
mossy zinc
@unique zephyr so why did you die?
unique zephyr
<@!266732686838595606> so why did you die? <:dusa:522248771409543188>
Because I got hit too much
The extra tunnels wouldn’t have helped me there
In fact it would have hurt timer
unique zephyr
Sword makes that a bit more difficult than other weapons 😛
halcyon flame
have you considered not dash-striking
hearty onyx
Perhaps you simply need to ignore the attack
honest kernel
just get good execution and dash strike with i frames
weak shuttle
Just now doing a 14 heat run with zeus aspect, starting to feel the heat a bit. Any recommendations for which conditions to really avoid as I climb?
pseudo kernel
ap, ri, em4, dc depending on what weapon you are using, js, cp
weak shuttle
I did em4 once, and won. I just wanted to see what his fight would be like
Never again unless absolutely necessary, I hate losing at the very end
pseudo kernel
the higher the heat the less you want to use em4
mossy zinc
I don't think you should avoid any of them at 14. In fact, that's the best time to try out all the pacts and get experience with them.
weak shuttle
This is the only weapon I have this high up, since its my favorite weapon. I've been branching out with the others when they gimme that purple bonus
My favorite was Zag's aspect with the bouncy shield, + extra bounces from hammer upgrades, since I could just spam special and win. (I'm playing at work, so it was nice not paying full attention). Zag aspect is not working anymore 😂
mossy zinc
Zag Shield does a lot better if you focus on Attack, yeah.
weak shuttle
What is the benefit of erebus portals? They seem awfully expensive for just an alternate path, I've been avoiding them to save my heat for the statues
quartz mantle
You get big rewards
mossy zinc
Double rewards or higher rarity boons.
weak shuttle
So, poms always grant 2 levels, etc?
pseudo kernel
So, poms always grant 2 levels, etc?
only from erebus gates
weak shuttle
Right
quartz mantle
50 health is really nice for higher heat runs
weak shuttle
The gold would be nice too when I'm just grinding low levels and picking up goods from charon while I'm at work
Thanks!
eternal hare
do keep in mind that if you get hit, you miss out on the reward
so it's a boosted reward at the cost of you having to play more carefully if you want it
weak shuttle
Damn, pay to play, and I can't get hit. Thats good to know
eternal hare
what do you mean by pay to play in this case
weak shuttle
I think I'm confused about "collected" heat
Is it a currency? I feel like I remember losing it when I bought the skelly statue
eternal hare
in early access times I believe heat was actually a collectible resource that you would spend, but in the current version heat is just a difficulty modifier
it is not spent or collected
mossy zinc
That's correct.
eternal hare
so you didn't really buy the skelly statue
you earned it by clearing a run at a specific heat
mossy zinc
You collect bounties by going up in Heat.
eternal hare
similarly, the requirement to enter erebus gates are "your run must have at least this much heat"
costs nothing otherwise
mossy zinc
It costs blood, sweat, and tears.
weak shuttle
I feel like my heat amount dropped to 0 when i bought the statue, then it went back up on my next run. 👀 I might be mistaken, could just be a quirk from early access if not
eternal hare
if you played during early access that's possible, although I didn't start playing until well after proper release so that's what it is now
weak shuttle
Nope, just been playing the switch version lol. I'll pay attention next time I buy a statue
mossy zinc
I think you were probably seeing things.
But if you notice anything off, you can report bugs in #h1-tech-support since you can't do that in-game on Switch.
eternal hare
in any case it's not like you have to spend anything to modify your pact nowadays
so if it really did reset to 0, no problem just reallocating stuff in the pact
gaunt fiber
mossy zinc
You have to post it in #h1-builds-and-combat, too.
white magnet
When people say they spent "a long time" on beating high heat runs, how long/many attempts do they mean? 🤔
eternal hare
depends on the specific heat but for 50heat runs, some of the more challenging aspects legitimately take several hundred attempts
eternal hare
32 is flexible enough that getting it within several tries is within reach for many people, yeah
regardless of aspect
white magnet
I don't remember what exactly I increased heat with, but I recall I found an easier setup than the ones I was recommended
waxen relic
Pacts like AP and RI don't just increase the difficulty of any run, but hinder the consistency of your runs by a lot too, which necessitates even more runs.
bright mango
Its also just not fun
mossy zinc
They're fun.
bright mango
halcyon flame
ap2 at 0 heat is fun because you're forced to mess around
ap2 at high heat, is not fun
because then you're forced to have an optimal build
bronze viper
Suboptimal builds are fun. What isn't fun are runs that end from replacements, UC screw from unsellable boons, or getting the same boon twice+ after reroll
Or some combination therein
bright mango
^
quartz mantle
Simply not having the damage to deal with the timer because AP2 gave you garbage boons
mossy zinc
Most players don't time out because of AP2 but because of skill.
eternal hare
ap2 is free heat until you die to hubris
spice lava
@white magnet I kinda rushed the game, I started to play it early December and I got my first 50 heat clear early February in ~350 attempts. But I started 50 heat with almost 0 knowledge which is something I won't recommend 👀
ashen garnet
obligatory: AP2 free heat
#justseededthings
ashen garnet
<@175009302275293186> I kinda rushed the game, I started to play it early Decemb...
I have 1k counting resets and still no 50 heat
true fable
i shudder to estimate my total number of attempts
my original first save file has >1.5 k
each one of my speedrunning saves usually reaches 400ish before i refresh it and ive refreshed it >5 times
my hell mode save for high heat has >1.5k as well
and then my IGT save file has ~800
spice lava
I have 1k counting resets and still no 50 heat <:squirtmeh:456913427525402624>
Fists are hard 👀 💦
gaunt fiber
pseudo kernel
Yes
mossy zinc
Very agree.
solar maple
very hard
last bluff
Very hard indeed, for the faces that get them
vernal stirrup
does hydralite gold work if you have -100 healing?
true fable
no
vernal stirrup
ah fk, my splitting bolt got cancelled
solemn pulsar
a crash course in high heat
true fable
lol
unique zephyr
I don’t turn on Approval Process even at 40 heat
@vernal stirrup if you’re doing 40 heat or under if you tell me your pact I can find a way to remove approval process from it
vernal stirrup
Just 32. I didn't want FO so I compensated with AP
Went -100 healing and 75% dmg boost
My limit is 7 mins. I don't think I can get 5 mins even with everything turned off.
unique zephyr
Just 32. I didn't want FO so I compensated with AP
I did FO0 and no AP. I did max hard labor and max convenience fee
TD3 is worth getting used to I think
Lemme think of a TD2 pact with no approval process, since I can’t send pics here I’ll DM you if you want
I came up with a pretty reasonable TD2 pact for you with no approval process and no forced overtime
ruby vault
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/725021639506526249/837455545534644294/unk...
how do you get the titles under your health?
unique zephyr
how do you get the titles under your health?
You pay the resources director, each level costs a lot of darkness
it's purely cosmetic
it costs darkness and some other meta currency for each level
ruby vault
ok
unique zephyr
resources director is in the room where you find Hades's picture of Persephone I think
celest grail
when will I be able to do that?
After your first clear theres some dialogue with hades iirc
torn sluice
Struggling at 12-13 heat already wheeze
Not sure if it is my luck or just my incompetence
I've already maxed out all my aspects, including the Zags, so guess it's time I come here
waxen relic
Inexperience probably
torn sluice
I'm at 168 runs total
waxen relic
Inexperience with the heat to be more precise, though 200 runs isn't that much here
spice lava
The runs don't say much. You can have done 168 runs on one aspect only and be naturally struggling on other aspects
torn sluice
Oh, I've picked my aspects for each already
Arthur, Hades, Zeus, Rama, Demeter, Eris/Hestia
I'm still following the darkness thing, so I'm not really learning how to master each one
Arthur and Zeus are probably my highest performers
spice lava
Don't start your journey with Hestia
torn sluice
Both of which has scored sub 16, good on my end, currently they're at heat 13
spice lava
That's my personal advice 😄
torn sluice
Yeah but funny gun go bang
unique zephyr
Don't start your journey with Hestia
Why? It was my gateway into high heat
torn sluice
On the other hand, Lucifer is something I considered but relying on Triple Bomb to roll is just unreliable
unique zephyr
I did other weapons after that but I wanted a weapon that was reasonably simple first
And I felt confident in
spice lava
Hestia is a safe aspect. If you only play it that's fine but if you want to learn other aspects after you will struggle because you don't have to get close with Hestia so you will be missing a part of the Hades mechanics
unique zephyr
Yeah you don’t have to really learn the boss patterns much
But it’s good self esteem for getting the first clear
But I’m the type to rotate weapons
Like I’m doing 24 x 32 now
But really start with the weapon you love
mossy moon
I don't see how people use it
some people just have different combat styles, I gues
s'fun for me, I got my record with Lucifer
unique zephyr
The best weapon for 32 is the one you’re the most comfortable with
torn sluice
Zeus Aspect
Gonna take me a whole hour
Actually, I think I should lean more into Arthur
Arthur cleans faster for me
spice lava
My personal self esteem would be good if I clear 50 with anything but Hestia 😄
unique zephyr
I want to clear 40 with Rama
It feels rewarding to get better at
And I have to learn the enemies
honest kernel
https://gyazo.com/25d08627793df8ca2e6ed272591ed232 Surely I'll have learned my lesson and actually Bullrush the Cerberus attack, right ?
Doesn't matter end up in more red that spawns after you bullrushed
I saw the one I landed into. I dashed to avoid it ... only to get no safe spots
Hades was also peaking into basically the only safe zone as well
Unfortunate timing
I swear I'm going to have to drill myself some practice for the EM4 fight until I goddamn Perfect it all the time
To avoid this nonsense
spice lava
Sadge
solemn pulsar
Is that the highest heat vermin kill?
halcyon flame
max heat vermin when
solemn pulsar
🚫
mossy zinc
🐀
pseudo kernel
mossy zinc
Agreed.
pseudo kernel
thank you
dire steppe
I might try getting back into hades now that i own a switch pro controller
unique zephyr
What were you using before?
dire steppe
Mouse
But it’s one of those anti RSI vertical work mouses
Not that great for games
unique zephyr
Got to dad on Rama 40, then lost 😦
honest kernel
you are already getting so far you can do it ✊
mossy zinc
@solemn pulsar how does Fated Authority interact with the "bag"?
ruby vault
After your first clear theres some dialogue with hades iirc
bro im 20 clears in
solemn pulsar
<@!334853357871169536> how does Fated Authority interact with the "bag"?
basically just treats it as an additional door. the reward on the door is removed from the bag, and a new one is pulled from it, for every roll
just tested this yesterday
mossy zinc
@solemn pulsar but don't you keep rerolling into the same 2-3 options or something? How does that work?
solemn pulsar
well for non-boons you can't get anything that isn't on the door
er
on the other doors
and whatever is currently on the door
for boons it uses the boon pool
and you can have a faux boon pool created apparently
i haven't looked into that
mossy zinc
Curious. Thanks!
true fable
@mossy zinc i believe there should be some old info on it somewhere in speedtech
i think it's been asked prior
mossy zinc
I did. But that was before we knew about how the "bag" works thanks to cgull.
true fable
ah i see
gaunt fiber
El bolso
honest kernel
More attempts today confirmed I'm going to need to train against EM4 specifically
Too many throws
bright mango
Since you can get to em4 quite consistently with a decent build, being able to easily play the fight should be ez dubs
I believe in you
honest kernel
It's so darn stressfull once I get there. I need to get comfortable with the fight
bright mango
I noticed that if you play well first phase, you start panicking in the second
Totally understandable
honest kernel
Against the second phase I'm worried about the urns
Like
Super badly
And they still get me anyways
sigh
bright mango
I’m always worried about urns
neat sonnet
urns are indeed concurning
celest grail
bro im 20 clears in
Then go to hades' room
There'll be a shade there
You can upgrade your rank there
ruby vault
ok
hexed pumice
do I still need owl pendant for asphodel if I already have divine dash?
referring to #h1-high-heat-strategies message
honest kernel
not rly
solemn pulsar
I force it for a DD chance on SDs
hexed pumice
wait, so when you're on SD, and you get a DD boon from athena, you get a DD on top of whatever SD you have??
honest kernel
yes
hexed pumice
so that doesn't work at the shop in styx
honest kernel
but you absolutley need to have lost your SD in that room before you pick the athena boon up
yep wont work there
hexed pumice
got a 2-sack on my first 32 heat attempt, 3:30 left, 113/315 health
honest kernel
you can do this 👍
hexed pumice
I got 1249 coins, what are the spend priorities at the styx shop?
honest kernel
boons, if they would benefit your build, then health and then poms
anvil only if you only have trash hammers
hexed pumice
nope
aphro atk, no special, athena dash, zeus cast
I can get artemis special here, or reroll for aid maybe
hexed pumice
I have 3 rerolls left, and only poms to get
honest kernel
special useless
hexed pumice
got aid
honest kernel
nice
hexed pumice
got it without losing SD
so this is interesting, I guess it's easier than expected because I've been playing with FO1 for a while
so falling back to FO0 is less stressful
hexed pumice
thank you!
if I were to go fo1, where would I drop the 3 heat?
or maybe, what should I look to for 40 heat?
honest kernel
I don't know your pact
hexed pumice
I just followed #h1-high-heat-strategies message
honest kernel
I see thx
for 32 I'd drop it on CF or EM3 or BP2
on 40 you usually want to learn fo2 but you can do it with fo1
hexed pumice
I think fo1 is tough for me with certain bp2 combos
honest kernel
bp2 can be very tough yeah
I'd do a fo1 40 pact like this prob
depending on your weapon you could take more JS or DC to take something else off
hexed pumice
makes sense, thanks
vernal stirrup
ok, FO 2 is really hard. The fact that bombs explode before the attack animation end hurts
shy plinth
It takes a lot of getting used to
mossy zinc
I would just add JS1 FO2 HS to the pact. That's 40 Heat. You could do that pact with HL0 for practice. That way your mistakes won't be punished so hard.
halcyon flame
finally got around to clearing 40 heat guan yu and i even recorded it
probably gonna upload the video to youtube later
honest kernel
nice
halcyon flame
sadly it's not unseeded
it was just gonna be a beo run but i got hammer chamber 1 and i absolutely had to check for charged skewer
celest grail
finally got around to clearing 40 heat guan yu and i even recorded it <:bouldy:5...
woah
Spammy recording runs?!
tell me im dreaming
halcyon flame
why do you think i was asking for the transparent png of the artwork i'm gonna use it in the thumbnail lol
unique zephyr
I have trouble with the dad fight for Rama 40
any tips?
I can't seem to get in an opening without being hit
I have trouble with getting hit by the adds on phase 1 too while charging up
pastel socket
what is the current highest heat cleared
pseudo kernel
what is the current highest heat cleared
64
mossy zinc
That's a bit disingenous. No one who asks that asks about routed.
60 Heat is the current WR for unseeded.
64 Heat has so far only been beaten by routing the whole run, meaning figuring out a route ahead of time and manipulating the RNG to get a lot of free rooms in the right places, the right boons, enemies that can be dealt with reasonably, etc.
pastel socket
I actually did mean routed
mossy zinc
Well then yeah, 64 Heat.