got a truly optimal build on this rama 40 (4 sack tho)
#h1-high-heat-strategies
solemn pulsar
eager vortex
is it normal to get a good boon for styx to complete your build
lol that question
was completely wrong
let me rephrase
is it normal to get a god keepsake for styx to complete your build
solar maple
no
usually you just take a defensive keepsake for dad
acorn > whatever boon you were forcing probably
eager vortex
okie
well I got lucky
game gave me aphro boon anyway
at charon shop
I started appreciating the +10-20% boon rarity upgrade from chaos it really helps
I ignored it b4
(well, usually)
mossy zinc
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/771815559410876446/825200861303144478/u...
Congratulations! 
Going for speed?
solemn pulsar
i mean i kind of always am? I'm not good at playing slow
4 sack kinda murdered any speed
mossy zinc
Yeah, but I meant if you're trying to place on the speedrun leaderboard.
Or if it was "just" for the clear.
solemn pulsar
oh nah just for clear
i'll do 40 heat speed on hestia probably
when i want to improve my time
less hammer reliant, more comfy for me since i have more hours
mossy zinc
And you're not directly competing with Tailesque's aspect.
solemn pulsar
true
this was a very lucky run in terms of getting all the rama juice
epic arty dash + 2 chaos boons? nice
mossy zinc
Oh nice, my mirrorless 32 has been verified. 
https://www.speedrun.com/hades#32_Heat
solemn pulsar
which one is mirrorless, all 3?
mossy zinc
Just Zag Shield.
solemn pulsar
👍
unique zephyr
Mirrorless 32 was hard for me with Hestia, speed running it sounds even more so
mossy zinc
I placed 1st for Zag Shield 32, too. 
mossy zinc
What's "the" meme aspect? There are a few lol.
mossy zinc
Lucifer is very good for high heat. m not very good with it or like it very much, but can't argue with results from others.
Recording your runs for the leaderboard?
eager vortex
nah
mossy zinc
You can submit your victory screens, anyway. 
eager vortex
yeah but people mostly seem to record
mossy zinc
Recordings are required for the leaderboard part of the spreadsheet.
solemn pulsar
@unique zephyr you tempted me
this was about as fast as i could go
2nd dash from hermes carried HARD
mossy zinc
Mirrorless? Very nice!
solemn pulsar
didn't get many free rooms either
mossy zinc
Congratulations!
solemn pulsar
run before this had cluster rockets, but no second dash
died in a 34 than to some dreadful chariots, but heroes probably would have gotten me
2nd dash healthy
mossy zinc
Yeah, you can pretty much just play like normal at that point.
mossy zinc
lolol
Now we just need a third person to submit a mirrorless speedrun, so I can say I've started a trend again.
unique zephyr
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/790729912163368991/825223591975976992/u...
Nice! That’s a faster time than I’ve gotten in any run in general, I have not tried to speed run yet though
You did it without Hermes dash or Hyper Sprint too
How do you fight faster with only one dash?
mossy zinc
They had Greatest Reflex.
unique zephyr
Oh looking at it again they did
solemn pulsar
Yeah would have been much harder and slower without that
But with CF0 you can often buy Hermes in Tartarus, and have 1 reroll from a key
So it’s a pretty decent chance to get honestly
unique zephyr
Tartarus Hermes greatest reflex was how I won my mirrorless 32
Well, it really helped anyway
solemn pulsar
You could probably get it setup in 1/3 of Tartarus runs
Maybe lower
And then there’s also a second one in asphodel usually if you can find it
I think it only becomes a deal breaker at + after lernie
Or at least begins to
true fable
i love lucifer for high heat
i personally think it's quite good
but can underestand why others dont like it
but it do a lot of damage
true fable
its not bad with autoaim on i dont think
bronze viper
I'm pretty sure I figured out how to control Zeus well enough on controller now, but I don't think I can do Lucifer at high heat.
Is there like, a trick or something to hitting your bombs when there's a ton of enemies around?
true fable
hmm
just yeet bombs
i usually like to yeet them between waves
doesnt matter where
since having 4 on the field detonates them all
shy gulch
yeah
bronze viper
Oh, I assumed it just detonated the first one you set
mossy zinc
bronze viper
Maybe if you had more pink boons
mossy zinc
I only got the Flourish exchange in the last Satyr tunnel.
barren nexus
What do you guys think the best aspect is for hunting blade builds
mossy zinc
Was Tempest Flourish before that.
bronze viper
What do you guys think the best aspect is for hunting blade builds
Probably Achilles or Poseidon
mossy zinc
Achilles, naturally.
barren nexus
How so?
mossy zinc
+150% Cast damage.
bronze viper
Achilles can gap close very quickly with its special, and gets 150% damage for 4 attack/casts after using the rush
mossy zinc
It's at least +100% better than Poseidon Aspect.
barren nexus
Yeah that’s pretty fantastic
shy gulch
yeah achilles pretty much owns
barren nexus
Who do you guys think the worst god in the game is?
bronze viper
You need to use dashes with Poseidon to get close enough to Slicing Shot, but by then you'll want dashes to get out. Achilles won't have that problem
bronze viper
The question is a bit... reductionist? There are certainly horrible gods in most contexts, but not in a universal sense.
I think Ares is probably the worst overall?
mossy zinc
Lord Ares has the most OP build for melee. He can't be the worst.
barren nexus
since everything in hades is contextual based
bronze viper
It's actually pretty easy as long as you have a context in mind lol. An aspect, at a particular heat, with a particular build in mind.
As Nyaanyaa mentioned, Ares is half of the most broken Duo in the game
bronze viper
Cold Fusion is one of the most absurdly broken things you can do in the game.
shy gulch
is it, though.
barren nexus
?
bronze viper
It's so free lol
shy gulch
ledger.
mossy zinc
She also makes Cast builds broken easily.
bronze viper
You do exactly what you would do anyway and everything just kills themselves
I'm biased. Jolted simp
Down with the Splitting Bolt patriarchy
But yeah, Demeter is major stink in a lot of contexts. Especially AP2.
solar maple
or you could just hit them at least once every few seconds?
barren nexus
^
solar maple
then jolted does the same thing on its own?
barren nexus
Demeter is fantastic when used right but niche
bronze viper
It's a pet boon, and I'm biased lol. Cold Fusion 4 life.
solar maple
lol
bronze viper
Ya'll are haters
bronze viper
Yeah but everyone loves Sea Storm
barren nexus
As they should
solar maple
yeah lol
bronze viper
What changed for Beo?
solar maple
supposedly they "made loading during the charge more reliable"
but it was already reliable
so idk what they did????
also icy flare is a prereq for dem t2s now
so no changes
bronze viper
lmao
solar maple
other than for my 50 heat run soon (tm)
true fable
run priv stat you coward
solar maple
then get attack status I guess?
barren nexus
What does demeter’s legendary do again?
mossy zinc
It's honestly great in Cast builds.
solar maple
I joke about snow burst being the legendary because it likes to not show up sometimes and is way better than the real legendary lol
solar maple
snow burst?
mossy zinc
Let's you one-shot everything you might not one-shot otherwise.
true fable
anyheat
solar maple
oh cool
true fable
im tryn some pash flare shenaniganz
mossy zinc
... lol
true fable
wanna try to get sub 8 on it at least
hunter's flare has spent too long as my third fastest
solar maple
I'm actually kind of liking pash flare for 40 heat speedruns
solar maple
since I don't have to go for mirage
so I can save rolls for wells + chaos + getting boned by UC
mossy zinc
I just stepped on magma after a good Tartarus, mashed RB to exit, looked at chat, and died.
true fable
LOL
shy gulch
just looked at my phone and then bop there goes my dd's
true fable
yeah i do that occasionally
solar maple
and I think pash flare is definitely good enough for sub 9 40 heat
shy gulch
probably yeah
bronze viper
Sometimes I forget that the space to the left of the barge doesn't have an exit box
barren nexus
I still haven’t done any high heat runs since I’ve just been trying to get awards, my highest heat is 13.
When did you guys stop like, going for bounties, if at all
bronze viper
I still haven't finished Sword bounties on either of my saves
solar maple
well you still get bounties by doing high heat
just not as fast because you lose more
shy gulch
i stopped going for bounties when i maxed out all my aspects i think
solar maple
I stopped before that
solar maple
once I had maxed all the aspects I actually cared about
guan yu and zag spear sat at lv 1 for a while
mossy zinc
Just finish bounties with your favorite aspect before you do 32, that's good for learning all the different pacts and learning your aspect and stuff.
barren nexus
I am just tryna 100% the contractor stuff, max out all relationships and aspects
bronze viper
That is a really long term project in this game :3
mossy zinc
Although obviously you can try 32 Heat any time you like.
barren nexus
Well a ton of them at least
bronze viper
You can definitely mix that up with higher heat goals etc, just for variety
barren nexus
I feel like I have experimented a lot with builds and gods just not with heat
So i have been losing a bit of replay value
bronze viper
Experiementing with builds at higher heats feels more rewarding because you start needing those little edges and discoveries to make more progress
It's a positive feedback loop
solar maple
so really the answer is if high heat sounds fun, go for it!
you don't need to wait for anything in particular
mossy zinc
I've played for over 850 hours and still think I haven't tried half the builds I could.
mossy zinc
Experiementing with builds at higher heats feels more rewarding because you star...
Until you go so high, you're happy when you get anything just barely functioning.
mossy zinc
There is.
true fable
builds are so flexible
bronze viper
For me, there's a deep satisfaction for having a very clear understanding of the exact minimum you need, defensively and offensively, to complete a run. If you get all of those parts of the buffalo and win, you feel so smart. And if you get extra parts, well, more buffalo, so no complaints.
bronze viper
🦬
shy plinth
40 down hell yeah
bronze viper
Ayyy
shy plinth
I definitely had so much leftover buffalo
bronze viper
What aspect?
shy plinth
Gilga ez
shy plinth
Yes
bronze viper
Madlad
barren nexus
Gilgamesh is my favorite
bronze viper
There are dozens of us
shy plinth
barren nexus
Hell yes
shy plinth
As previously documented
Note: Gilga is bad
But I highrolled like crazy so what are you gonna do
Tart ME with dash and also athena legendary
bronze viper
It's fine. You just have to prove the haters wrong. It's part of my motivating factor for pushing Chiron. It's actually... not that fun at 50+ lol. It's kind of like filing your teeth against tinfoil.
barren nexus
Huh
shy plinth
I enjoy playing gilga but it is objectively not that competitive
bronze viper
Lol, well, Chiron is objectively not that good, but empirically the 2nd fastest aspect in the game.
barren nexus
Gilga may not have the best abilities and attack but those dashes are so fun to play with
shy plinth
Lol, well, Chiron is objectively not that good, but *empirically* the 2nd fastes...
It is empirically the aspect with the second fastest recorded time in the game
If you wanna get technical we can get technical
bronze viper
Using gilgamesh's actual kit has the look and feel of an enraged furry giving moderately inconveniencing slaps to people around them.
shy plinth
The mechanic of "let's boost enemy damage with an attack that plops me right in front of them with a long animation"
bronze viper
halcyon flame
It is empirically the aspect with the second fastest recorded time in the game
me when 6:17 with seastorm chiron
solar maple
that run is why I think every aspect will eventually have a sub 7 time
halcyon flame
what's the stupidest hestia build that you would argue still has potential in speedrunning
solar maple
idk anything about hestia
bronze viper
Merciful End
shy plinth
I mean that's just ME zag real
Oh gosh
Okay never mind that's cursed
But you said has potential in speedruns
bronze viper
Rocket Cluster Bomb Curse of Pain Dire Misfortune Impending Doom with DIvine Strike head explodes
shy plinth
...no
shy plinth
Okay hear me out
Heartbreak strike parting shot
Just backstab 4head
Get lightning phalanx in there too
That's speedrun meta
And that means smoldering air
halcyon flame
just get crush shot and smouldering air
shy plinth
Nah you want athena cast lightning phalanx for sure
And then you get dionysus call for air
So that your call on smoldering air procs SPLITTING HEADACHE
And then you backstab them with PARTING SHOT
Giant backstabs with 7.5% crit chance
Because your call adds crit stacks
Let's go
halcyon flame
this isn't even a hestia build
shy plinth
No you need the parting shot damage boost on the hestia reload
halcyon flame
you genius ......
shy plinth
That 25% bonus backstab damage is yuge
And with splitting headache on top of it
So powerful
mossy zinc
3-sack grrrr. https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/725021639506526249/825265645036765205/Hades_1842.png?width=825&height=464
hexed pumice
what's considered the entry point for high heat?
bronze viper
There isn't one.
It's whatever you deem to be high heat for yourself.
Typically in this channel, when people ask for advice, it's for 32+, 40+, or 50+. Those are the most common breakpoints. 16+ is fairly common too
mossy zinc
Ugh, 4-sack.
hexed pumice
Typically in this channel, when people ask for advice, it's for 32+, 40+, or 50+...
makes sense, thanks
mossy zinc
High Heat Leaderboard starts at 32, for what it's worth.
hexed pumice
I'm still farming blood so to say, but I didn't really feel too pressured on my highest run so far at 14
mossy zinc
Back to resetting for Charged Skewer.
hexed pumice
so I've started playing with FO1 and considering going SD fulltime
bronze viper
Those are both good decisions
edgy arrow
SD is pretty fun honestly
bronze viper
DDs punish you for going full unga bunga in normal rooms. You have to play so conservatively.
hexed pumice
I feel pretty good fighting redacted these days
edgy arrow
actually whats a good 32 heat setup for first timers?
there's a guide in the pins
mossy zinc
actually whats a good 32 heat setup for first timers?
Check pins.
bronze viper
No spoilers necessary in this channel btw
hexed pumice
fair
hexed pumice
yeah I don't break a sweat at hades anymore
bronze viper
You'll probably change your mind a bit as you start adding more pacts. FO2 Dad is pretty threatening until you get used to it
mossy zinc
My pact above is very doable if you're comfortable with FO2 speedruns.
Hades fight with only Charged Skewer is very slow, m noticing.
edgy arrow
sidetrack but its crazy to me that people sometimes use FO1 for speedruns
is it just to avoid longbows running away so fast?
idk
bronze viper
It's to avoid dying lmao
mossy zinc
I went in at like 8:40 in the run above and finished in 10:19.
hexed pumice
at what heat is FO2 considered mandatory?
bronze viper
shrug I don't sprechen the speedrun
shy gulch
things can kill you when you’re trying to go super fast
edgy arrow
i mean
shy gulch
especially when you use something like sword
edgy arrow
okay yeah that's happened to me before
shy gulch
also, FO1 is used for things like cast weapons a lot
so u don’t lose time missing casts against jumpers in aspho
edgy arrow
i thought that was just because i don't really know speed strats tho
shy gulch
jumpers get REALLY annoying on FO2
edgy arrow
at what heat is FO2 considered mandatory?
about 40, but its flexible
bronze viper
at what heat is FO2 considered mandatory?
I'd say it's soft mandatory at 32+. Pretty much every person who frequents this channel plays with permanent FO2 on. It's 6 heat, which is so much heat
hexed pumice
I'll try to train up to FO2 fulltime
mossy zinc
32 is way easier with FO0 than with FO2.
edgy arrow
you can easily do FO1 at 32 if you want tho
bronze viper
what's gonna kill you
Also FO2 screws up your own DPS. It makes it way easier to get stunned out of your animations
shy plinth
For what it's worth I found FO2 at 32 to allow me to build a much easier pact than the others I'd tried, including all HL5 pacts
But the great thing about 32 is there are so many options
There is no one right answer
edgy arrow
^
shy plinth
There are some wrong answers - don't take RI, don't take CP, probably don't take HS or AP
edgy arrow
that's why i said mandatory is around 40
generally advised at 32, but not mandatory yet
shy plinth
You're used to it
A first time 32 run dying to a dad jar is heartbreaking
And that's when people are prone to tilt and sloppy play
edgy arrow
yeah HS feels much less bad once you're forced to run it a lot
bronze viper
I mean, it's legitimately horrifying with FO2 EM4 lol, I'll grant you that
edgy arrow
turns out it doesn't end that many runs
bronze viper
HS kills me like 90% of the time on EM4 lmao
edgy arrow
oh really
mossy zinc
HS for faster revives is nice.
bronze viper
No, it's a slight exaggeration, but it's a lot
edgy arrow
the urns are rarely the problem for me
i'm more like to get hit by something else while trying to avoid them lol
but also uh
there's no urns in phase one
bronze viper
LOL
edgy arrow
imagine getting past phase one
bronze viper
Imagine.
edgy arrow
well, with beo getting past phase one is easy enough, but urns are also less scary if you can bull rush
bronze viper
I think the situation I run into a lot on shield is shielding the lasers within his yeet radius and getting flung to the opposite side of the map, clipping an urn, then instantly dying
It sounds very specific but this situation is extremely common lmao
hexed pumice
are these EM4 only?
edgy arrow
i get flung around a lot, but its been while since i've hit at urn
maybe just lucky idk
bronze viper
are these EM4 only?
No, the urns are the same behavior in the normal dad fight but they spawn a lot more regularly in EM4, and his attacks corner you into them a lot more
hexed pumice
what's the "yeet radius" in this case?
mossy zinc
They spawn passively in EM4.
edgy arrow
what's the "yeet radius" in this case?
he has an aura of yeet when lasering on EM4
hexed pumice
oh so no more dad hugging
bronze viper
You know how in the dad fight, you can hug his back in phase 2 part one while he lasers, or inside the radius of the lasers in a safe zone in the second part?
hexed pumice
yeah
bronze viper
Yeah, you can't do that anymore
hexed pumice
makes sense now, thanks 😄
bronze viper
He has an aura that flings you very hard backward
edgy arrow
yeah its specifically to prevent dad hugging
bronze viper
NO TOUCHING
shy plinth
There's always money in the banana stand, ledger
edgy arrow
hades no like hugs 😭
hexed pumice
at which point do people start playing with EM4?
edgy arrow
uh
bronze viper
A soft "never"
hexed pumice
so it's like its own thing
shy plinth
Usually never except for some people it's always
bronze viper
"Some people" is exactly one person lol
Pengy just started down that journey, maybe in a couple of months we'll have 2
shy plinth
Okay yes
edgy arrow
there are a few exceptions, but they mostly boil down to beowulf, Retrash, and runs that are explicitly using hard pacts
honest kernel
EM4 is just so exhausting
shy plinth
And also putting the most stressful part of the run at the very end sucks
edgy arrow
and even beo doesn't really wanna touch EM4 until like 45
bronze viper
I find it relaxing. You die in 30 seconds then start your next run
EZPZ
EM4 by itself is actually pretty manageable. It scales grotesquely with each pact though
edgy arrow
^
shy plinth
Ehhhhh
Pretty manageable in the way that FO2 is pretty manageable
You die to it for a week non-stop and then you suddenly don't
honest kernel
it's not a huge issue on low heats yea
bronze viper
Lol, yeah, but I'm at 800 hours and I think EM4 is still ridiculous. You can passively learn FO2. You have to like... actually put specific reps into EM4
shy plinth
Tbh at a certain level of heat it's pretty hard to pinpoint a specific cause
mossy zinc
I wish the default spin was just Quick Spin.
edgy arrow
that's true
shy plinth
Like if you die in tart to a BP2 room on FO2
edgy arrow
but still
shy plinth
What actually killed you
mossy zinc
Especially so the hammer pool would be better.
edgy arrow
FO2 danger
shy plinth
I too wish that Spear was a better weapon
edgy arrow
i wish the default spin was actually a block
bronze viper
LOL Beowulf problems
edgy arrow
the biggest beowulf problem is that not all aspects are beowulf
bronze viper
"I don't understand. I held attack. Why are they damaging me. Why would someone choose to take damage."
edgy arrow
look
its been a while since i last accidentally tried to block with rama okay
i'm learning
bronze viper
I like when I haven't played shield for a while, brazenly bull rush into a pile of linker louts and instantly explode
shy plinth
"Well I had to show death for the recording"
bronze viper
"I don't understand. I held my shield up. Why don't I have 720 degrees of invincibility"
edgy arrow
being able to block is pretty crazy honestly, when you think about it
like, the only other thing another weapon can do that's similar is GY's ability to heal, and it pays for that with half its HP
bronze viper
Look. Beowulf takes 10% extra damage. Haven't they suffered enough?
edgy arrow
^
shy plinth
But also the true curse of Beowulf is the pact ceiling
Though I'm sure atticor will come in here and make fun of me for saying that again
edgy arrow
one of my favourite #h1-builds-and-combat takes was when i saw someone say something like "yeah and beowulf is just a full on glass cannon"
like um
no
how did you come to this conclusion
shy plinth
To my understanding the only way to really maximize beowulf is to take fated authority
edgy arrow
fated authority and reroll all the boons into health
you just take so much damage
you need all the health you can get
bronze viper
Glass cannon lol. Kind of reminds me of the stereotype that you can shatter a wine bottle by like tapping it on a hard surface lol. That glass be thicc
edgy arrow
beowulf is sort of like if you get a cannon made of glass and put it in a reinforced bunker also the cannon isn't glass its a regular cannon
shy plinth
Beowulf is like if you had a cannon made of glass but next to it was a big dumb metal plate and you just picked that up instead
bronze viper
"Rama is slow." watches 14 enemies die simultaneously from a 2 second charge hmm...
edgy arrow
to be fair, the rama is slow thing is at least understandable
its pretty easy to play rama badly, and if you play anything badly enough its slow
and anyway, rama is objectively slower than chiron so who even knows anything about speed at this point
bronze viper
Meanwhile Excalibur be putting in like, an application form and waiting 2-3 business days to get to its base 200 swing.
edgy arrow
that doesn't make it fast tho
shy plinth
The attacks are slow but the weapon can be fast
edgy arrow
it just makes it so that you don't get punched halfway through your 3 day waiting period and have to start again after a stint in hospital
shy plinth
And again didn't luvcrimson get an 8:17 with merciful end arthur lol
edgy arrow
i feel like that says more about luvcrimson than arthur tbh
shy plinth
Yes
mossy zinc
Yeah, I dunno about Excalibur being fast.
shy plinth
I should clarify that it is obviously not a speed demon
But you can do fast runs with it
It still lands in the bottom half
mossy zinc
Bottom 5 probably.
edgy arrow
i'd believe that
shy plinth
The amount of effort needed to get speed out of it is significant
Yeah I wouldn't argue against that
Chaos is bottom 1 yeah?
Except Bablo Chaos
edgy arrow
idk but i'd believe that as well
chaos slow
and not good at ME to make it go faster
bronze viper
Yeah I thought Bablo almost got sub 7 with Chaos
edgy arrow
yeah that run is insane
shy plinth
He did but he's Bablo so it doesn't count towards other people
edgy arrow
i still don't know how it happened even after watching it
lol yeah he is in fact Bablo
bronze viper
I mean... he lost to Spread Fire Eris
shy plinth
Accuracy is def the key to time
edgy arrow
arthur speedruns are beautiful to behold in particular
shy plinth
Even for normies like us just pushing td3 normally
But especially in speedruns
Oh yes
I put the chaos one on again just to see how he did it
Purple thunder flourish into charged shot not bad
bronze viper
I've played a lot of Chaos lol. Even on nut builds... stuff doesn't die
bronze viper
Most of Chaos' damage usually comes from Jolted tbf
edgy arrow
you can't really highroll with chaos that much tho
bronze viper
It's not like Zeus where Thunder Flourish scaling actually means much
solar maple
Oh I dont really
edgy arrow
well, i knew i didn't like i that much already
solar maple
Was playing flood flare
edgy arrow
yeah i think i might switch back to flood flare
i just wanna get like sub 8 or something and flood flare is good enough for that
bronze viper
Every Beo run. Is this the Any Heat? butterflies
edgy arrow
lol
solar maple
Yeah I got my sub 8 with flood flare. Looking for sub 730 now
bright forum
literally how
solar maple
Zoom
bright forum
how are you talking about sub 8s so casually
edgy arrow
i got an insane dio build yesterday, would've been an easy sub 8 on a 2 sack
would've still been a sub 8 on a 3 sack
bright forum
i thought getting a sub 25 would be fast af lmfao
solar maple
Ouch
bronze viper
i thought getting a sub 25 would be fast af lmfao
Shrug. Should be exciting. Means you have a lot more to improve 🙂
edgy arrow
how are you talking about sub 8s so casually
i haven't done one yet
so i wouldn't say its entirely casual
bright forum
do you run no heat?
bronze viper
Lol, this channel was made to not spook newer players with people very casually talking about 50+ heat nonsenses
edgy arrow
for speedruns its EM2 FO2
shy plinth
The cumulative amount of experience in this channel is insane
And tbh the average among the regulars is similarly insane
bright forum
im new-ish to post game so idk what that means
edgy arrow
FO2 makes enemies spawn in faster and EM2 makes lernie's heads closer together
solar maple
Yeah this is the tryhard channel haha
edgy arrow
oh Forced Overtime 2 and Extreme Measures 2
there's a key to the pact acronyms in the pins
bright forum
yeah i figured, excited to participate here more in the coming future
shy plinth
Like @mossy zinc by herself has 850 hours of playtime
bright forum
just beat main story so it's only up from here :D
bronze viper
I'm at 800ish
bright forum
wtaf
shy plinth
Video game good
bright forum
i have 817 on monster hunter and i've been playing since last summer
bronze viper
I mean, I've been playing since May last year
That's pretty much the same time frame lol
bright forum
makes complete sense then
edgy arrow
wait really
solar maple
The reason we talk about stuff like sub 8s casually is because we have all played this game way too much lol
edgy arrow
you actually started playing after me ledger
i thought you'd been around for ages when i turned up
bronze viper
Oh lol. I wasn't even remotely good until like August. I only started grinding heat in Blood Price.
bronze viper
It's fine, I'm still terrible. Just less terrible each time I play (on average)
edgy arrow
i did spend a lot of time just messing around when i started playing
solar maple
I didn't even try to push heat until 1.0
bright forum
opinions on cursed slash?
bronze viper
Not literally the worst (tm)
solar maple
No higher praise
mossy zinc
Epic Heartbreak Flourish > Epic Zeus' Aid > Triple Jab, Massive Spin, Flaring Spin.
bronze viper
Lol, I'll accept that compliment as soon as I stop walking into spike traps with 0 pressure.
bronze viper
It's like a siren's call
bronze viper
Or the wall spikes in the bridge tileset of Elysium. The allure... it's intoxicating.
mossy zinc
I died. What a bummer.
edgy arrow
speedrunning with HL5 on GY is for braver folks than me
bronze viper
Lmao at Astaos' casual sub 11 not even trying at 40 heat GY
edgy arrow
Astaos and I have very similar amounts of hours in this game
the difference between us is ludicrous
shy plinth
You're so much more perdable than he is
edgy arrow
its true
shy plinth
You can really see how each person feels out their own perdability
bronze viper
I think Astaos developed Stockholm Syndrome for Chiron. He actually enjoys it at 50+
I accept blame for that.
edgy arrow
i only enjoy chiron with sea storm and priviledge status
bronze viper
Even I think it's an irredeemable garbage fire at 50+
edgy arrow
the only way to play chiron is to embrace the garbage fire
bronze viper
I got people on the "wtf is an Acorn. Skull Earring or riot" meta
shy plinth
Okay like I've seen this chaos run before and still I'm surprised by it
You're 100% right @edgy arrow
I saw the whole thing and I don't really get it still
shy plinth
His primary source of damage for two biomes was flood shot
edgy arrow
its like, there's nothing there that makes it seem like it should be that fast
he's just really precise and really consistent
mossy zinc
Room RNG matters a whole lot for times like that.
shy plinth
Yeah he didn't do very many encounters overall
Lots of chaos gates, mid shops, and friend rooms
edgy arrow
that's true
room rng is pretty huge, but even so
it think Bablo might be good at the game
shy plinth
edgy arrow
controversial i know
mossy zinc
m not just talking about free rooms, chamber layout and enemies can make a huge difference.
bronze viper
Lol, some Lout rooms take as much time as dashing through a shop in Tartarus.
mossy zinc
Like I can make it out of chamber 2 in 12 seconds or in 24 seconds depending on what I get.
bronze viper
It's balanced out by 3 minute trickle Numbskull rooms
shy gulch
mob rng is really big, yeah
mossy zinc
Or you get the Numskull room where you do one Dash-Strike and go on to the next chamber.
bronze viper
With BP2 speedruns I always feel like resetting a run when I see Shifter pots
gaunt fiber
Oh yeah Brain's time was around 13
Well get sub 10
And I'll take the wr after that :)
mossy zinc
Very rude.
gaunt fiber
Lol
mossy zinc
How about I take your 40 Heat record after this.
gaunt fiber
I don't think I'll ever grind 32
gaunt fiber
How about I take your 40 Heat record after this.
Please go for it
true fable
lol
gaunt fiber
Yup you should not lmao
gaunt fiber
I have WR.
But wait, I can submit my 40 in the 32 category
gaunt fiber
It's not
mossy zinc
Yes lol.
gaunt fiber
It's not the 10:29?
mossy zinc
No.
bronze viper
I should probably become less conscious. I'll work on that now
vital grove
32 is a fun heat tho Astaos
gaunt fiber
Yeah but 40 is my favorite
bronze viper
It feels like 32 lets you get away with too much nautical nonsense
gaunt fiber
Yeah check #test-branch-discussion
half heart
It's about Sea Storm with Beowulf, right?
solemn pulsar
It was not
It’s some change to mid rush fast loading
And some icy flare tier 2 boons
gritty flame
I don't do anywhere near high heat. I barely do low heat so far, but does the benefits package pact seem way more punishing than it's worth? Trial of the God's encounters are pretty dangerous when you have it activated. I've lost over 50% of my health doing that.
bright mango
40 is definitely where you gotta be on point
40 is my favorite heat
bright mango
I don't do anywhere near high heat. I barely do low heat so far, but does the be...
What heat are you trying to do?
gritty flame
ok...but would you say it's pretty punishing compared to other pacts though?
seems like it to me
I take trial of the gods almost every time because it's two boons
bright mango
I mean once you get used to the perks it gets a bit better
edgy arrow
i'd say its one of the ones that scales with other heat really dangerously
edgy arrow
yeah
mossy zinc
BP2 is a staple in every high heat pact.
gritty flame
Do people skip trial of the gods encounters at high heat?
bright mango
Elysium
hoary pasture
Depends on the gods
bright mango
And if timer is bad
mossy zinc
Not necessarily.
edgy arrow
usually when we skip its because of timer
mossy zinc
Always depends on context, yeah.
gritty flame
I've only had trouble in Elysium with BP
edgy arrow
sometimes due to danger tho
gritty flame
I hate those shield guys!
edgy arrow
depends on the gods and how worth it the benefits are
bright mango
I hate bowmen and chariots
gritty flame
They all suck haha
edgy arrow
shield guys are annoying, but bow guys will kill you
mossy zinc
I'll always take trials in Tartarus at high heat unless m speedrunning or I really don't care for the gods.
gritty flame
ok, cool. Thanks for the advice guys. 🙂
edgy arrow
i usually take them in tart yeah
waxen relic
I guess if you don't use Stubborn Defiance, BP gets worse
bright mango
That’s true
edgy arrow
but sometimes it just isn't worth it
bright mango
I literally can’t take death defiance now
I lose too much health playing normal rooms
Like 20+ heat
waxen relic
I lose too much health playing normal rooms
Try some RI4 🙂
mossy zinc
I'll say that BP2 by itself is free for practically every high heat player. It's only in combination with other pacts that they pose an actual threat.
edgy arrow
yeah but its totally fair if you find it really hard when you first use it
its only free for us because we've played with it a lot
mossy zinc
Losing 50% of your HP in a trial is pretty free, too, if you can kill any boss easily without losing a DD, anyway.
bright mango
@gritty flame what is your pact setup?
mossy zinc
Like, I'll sometimes lose a DD to the Furies when speedrunning at low heat, but that's just because I don't care about my DDs anyway, I just wanna be fast.
bright mango
I do too
gritty flame
Losing 50% of your HP in a trial is pretty free, too, if you can kill any boss e...
Yes, that's fair. But it was still surprising to struggle so much on a non-boss encounter.
gritty flame
<@164950441203859457> what is your pact setup?
I have been trying different combos to get to the minimum heat required for bounties tbh
bright mango
I normally lose one to furies, lernie, and hades while speedrunning
bright mango
I have been trying different combos to get to the minimum heat required for boun...
Ok
mossy zinc
You're gonna just have to play a lot with BP2 on and learn how to deal with the different perk combos.
Or BP1, I guess.
edgy arrow
I normally lose one to furies, lernie, and hades while speedrunning
yeah its actually funny how easy EM3 is when speedrunning
mossy zinc
I think I've only ever done like one or two runs with only BP1 lol. Always BP2 or BP0.
bright mango
I don’t normally take em3 while speedrunning
bright mango
edgy arrow
i forgot EM3 and champions aren't synonymous
heat player brain bleh
that fight's name isn't technically "EM3"
bright mango
Yeah I figured that’s what you were talking about
edgy arrow
i mean, part of what makes them easy is that lack of EM3 honestly
bright mango
Just the actual fight
edgy arrow
yeah
gritty flame
Is there a "general chat"? I wanted to ask if anyone excited for the final release of Binding of Isaac? They seem like somewhat similar games
edgy arrow
there's #off-topic-discussion
there's also #video-games
which is prolly better for that
gritty flame
Thanks
honest kernel
em2 is actually cursed for me because I never learned the 1.0 asterius and thesus bossfight 
they got new moves it wierds me out
mossy zinc
lol I just ignore what they do most of the time because they die so fast anyway.
edgy arrow
mood
honest kernel
😔
bronze viper
they got new moves it wierds me out
Their new moves force them to cluster, which is chef's kiss for speed running. All upside.
honest kernel
ah I see 
bronze viper
Yes, that's fair. But it was still surprising to struggle so much on a non-boss ...
As you get higher in heat, the difference in difficulty between normal rooms and boss rooms starts to decline dramatically. To the point that you'll have BP2 Dracon rooms that are harder than Lernie, or a million rooms that can happen in Elysium scarier than EM3. They probably won't take as long, but they're harder.
The exception being EM4, which only gets dramatically harder than all other content each pact you add that affects it.
bright mango
lernie is still pretty scary tho
mossy zinc
Dracons with BP2 are really BP4, anyway.
bright mango
truth
edgy arrow
dracons are the reason i second guess asphodel trials
i’ve been burned too many times
honest kernel
yeah 
halcyon flame
imagine if there was a bp perk that makes everything respawn like the shades in elysium
wintry berry
sorry I just woke up
halcyon flame
imagine having to kill asterius before he makes it to his labrys
mossy zinc
shifter + seeker dracons
So . . . Dracons?
mossy zinc
Dracons^Dracons.
bright mango
thats scary to even think about
bronze viper
At least Dracons can't spawn in Erebus gates
(I think? Maybe in Asphodel+ ones lol)
true fable
at this point the only bp enemy i super despise is speeder slamdancers
at least in aspho
for this week
ask me again next week
vale bison
quartz mantle
speed zoomin
solemn pulsar
unfortnite
😠
bright mango
@edgy arrow @bronze viper I can now confirm that black widows exist. I was out on a trail and saw the biggest black spider I had ever seen. Checked my phone, and it looks exactly like a black widow
bronze viper
There are false positives. Black widows are teeny teeny tiny
bright mango
really?
bronze viper
Yeah
bright mango
i looked at the pictures and the size and it looked exactly like it
bronze viper
Huh, neat
bright mango
Most spiders I see are like the size of a thumbnail
So this one looked a lot bigger
wintry berry
solemn pulsar
@bright mango did it have the red hourglass
gritty flame
it's kinda BS that the poison in styx is considered a trap or hazard
waxen relic
Stay hydrated!
bronze viper
Lol. I made so many... decisions in my last Zoos 50 attempt. How dare the game punish me for dreaming
@north dove and EM4 fellows: Zoos aspect, 225 health, Patty buff, given the choice between epic Sure Footing and DD in Styx tunnel, what do?
I did Sure Footing for a data point. I played phase 1 like a ding dong so it didn't end up mattering (and ironically I died to an urn with less than 15 health left lol), but I'm still not sure
north dove
depends how good you are at avoiding the urns but I say DD in most cases
true fable
sure footing will save you from an urn
DD will also save you from an urn
but will also save you from other stuff
bronze viper
Ironically the DD would have saved me from the Urn that actually killed me though that fight was already on a downward trajectory lmao
quartz mantle
Yea DD gives you more health so unless you're running into a lot of urns it would probably be better overall
I just imagine EM4 has a lot more stuff than just urns that can kill you
bronze viper
Zoos more than any other aspect I find myself running into urns, since you hold up your shield to block the lasers and get yeeted against your will
bronze viper
lol, nifty, TIL, but the urns I'm talking about in this case are usually just kind of around and I'm stuck in the shield animation while the laser clips one and I die. It sound so specific but I swear I lose so many runs because of this exact interaction
waxen relic
I mean you don't have to block the lasers.. sometimes it should be safer to hide like all the other weapons
bronze viper
Lol I haven't even broached the whole "like all the other weapons" issue lmao
That's a completely separate EM4 problem
gritty flame
is it smart to try to get Exclusive Access ASAP and then proceed with a build/
bronze viper
You don't ever try to get Exclusive Access
If you get it in Tartarus, congratulations, you're in meme town
gritty flame
might be fun on low heat?
bronze viper
Oh it's a blast at any heat lmao
It's just not good enough to aim for specifically. It is very good though.
gritty flame
I wish when you were looking at boons in the codex it would highlight the ones you currently have
honest kernel
the dream: looking at ur boons without running the timer
plush scaffold
Don't you count your chamber in your head like a normal person ?
bronze viper
Well I kind of do now lmao
It's like knowing how to remember phone numbers. As soon as I didn't need to I just completely lost the ability lol
gritty flame
I just can't win with heightened security... I just lost THREE DD in a normal styx tunnel....
waxen relic
Try Stubborn Defiance and/or Broken Spearpoint.
plush scaffold
HS is really not worth the 1 heat, at least at low heat or without enough experience
gritty flame
I'm just trying to finish the prophecy...
plush scaffold
Ho, then grab Athena boon
gritty flame
0 DD and 105 health going into Hades. UGH
It usually isn't THAT bad, but wow...so screwed in ONE room
gritty flame
And I have like 60-70 hours in this game with ~60 attempts. By any normal measure that is a good amount of experience in a game.
icy acorn
heightened security is just another topic
icy acorn
it's 1 DD with one hit in styx
bright mango
I have like a 130 hrs rn
shy gulch
thank u bright zero one
icy acorn
he is very bright indeed
shy gulch
truly
gritty flame
I didn't step in a trap thankyou very much
unique zephyr
I don’t take HS until 40 heat, to be honest
1 point of hard labor is way easier than HS, IMO
mossy zinc
Most spiders I see are like the size of a thumbnail
Thumbnails can have many different sizes. It also depends largely on your viewing screen.
mossy zinc
HS is really not worth the 1 heat, at least at low heat or without enough experi...
I think it's absolutely worth it for the practice. You'll become so much more aware of all the trap locations in each chamber.
Speaking of that, @unique zephyr, you should absolutely keep HS on for the practice.
unique zephyr
Speaking of that, <@!266732686838595606>, you should absolutely keep HS on for t...
After I get 32 on sword I’ll consider it, not sure which weapon I’d like to do 40 heat on next yet though
32 for Stygius is hard as it is without HS 
plush scaffold
I think it's absolutely worth it for the practice. You'll become so much more aw...
It surely is worth it if you wanna push high heat, but it is a very tough pact for just 1 heat
mossy zinc
Definitely early on. At this point, I just treat it as free heat.
mossy zinc
At some point, you've played so much High Confidence Guan Yu with HS that traps are just decoration that can't harm you.
plush scaffold
This is a world out of my reach, so I'll just trust you here
mossy zinc
Until you play Stygius. Then every second step you take is a trap platform.
unique zephyr
Tinfoil hat time: you start with stygius on your first run so all the future weapons you unlock seem better in comparison
Also to make it even more improbable someone beats first run by accident
mossy zinc
Originally, only the base weapons were planned. The aspects came later.
shy gulch
they really planned out zag spear and were like "yes, this is a good weapon to have in our game"
unique zephyr
So is zag spear or zag sword worse
mossy zinc
So is zag spear or zag sword worse
Yes.
mossy zinc
they really planned out zag spear and were like "yes, this is a good weapon to h...
I don't think they planned for some players having an average clear time of like 10 minutes or something lol.
If you look at it from a perspective of just trying to clear with no timer, Zag Spear is very safe with a lot of range.
edgy arrow
<@!309651131213152258> <@!143840804899782656> I can now confirm that black widow...
to test, try letting it bite you and see what happens
its the only way to be sure
mossy zinc
No, I think the only way to be sure is to nuke the whole site from orbit.
mossy zinc
Okay. Where's your current location?
edgy arrow
i'm not going answer that question on the grounds that i may get nuked
bright mango
to test, try letting it bite you and see what happens
sure
I'll try it the next time I go there
edgy arrow
its for science
bright mango
If you don't hear from me again, you can confirm that I have seen one
And that they exist
edgy arrow
its a flawless plan
bright mango
of course
unique zephyr
Man sword 32 is hard, I want to get to the point where 32 heat in general feels comfortable lol
Died to Meg twice in a row, at least I’m in elysium this run
Partly because I got smouldering air this time
shy plinth
Dying to meg is a part of pushing heat
I think I died to furies 4 times in a row yesterday
bright mango
I die to furies all the time
edgy arrow
sure, but nem is generally a bad aspect at managing heat
unless you’re really good with it lol
bright mango
Nemesis is very unga bunga
half heart
It deal a lot of dmg so it can clean rooms fast
daring elk
hi i've recently beaten 0 heat and i'm planning on going all the way
wondering if theres any advanced guide detailing the uses of the different keepsakes and mirror upgrades
there are so many it feels overwhelming
shy plinth
Welcome, grats on beating 0 heat
The best thing to do is just play a lot
Was that your first clear?
daring elk
yep
shy plinth
You are just getting started 🙂
You can check the pins here but likely a lot of the advice in this channel will make that feeling of being overwhelmed worse instead of better
And some of the things that apply to high heat don't really track well to starting out
Have you watched any videos?
daring elk
i haven't watched any advanced gameplay, nope
shy plinth
Any video guides from Haelian or JawlessPaul?
shy plinth
Oh
Just play a lot lol
If you just got the game the best part is learning it organically
There are a ton of guides out there on youtube, those two guys in particular have really good guides to be aware of
daring elk
i guess a good start would be knowing which keepsakes i should just ignore straight up
shy plinth
But just play and figure it out as you go, it's really fun and will help you figure out what you like
daring elk
i assume a fair number of them belong in the "never touch" tier
shy plinth
Do you know what a duo boon is
daring elk
yes, seen a couple of them already
daring elk
oke, will for sure check it out
short sedge
mossy zinc
Man sword 32 is hard, I want to get to the point where 32 heat in general feels ...
@daring elk you're probably better off in #h1-for-new-players or #h1-builds-and-combat. This channel is for endgame.
Not that you can't ask questions here, but "what do the different keepsakes do" isn't exactly a high heat question.
dire steppe
i should try a weaponless 32 at some point
ie only cast call and dash
no attack or special
posidon/beo/gilgamesh/hera not allowed
mossy zinc
@unique zephyr easy solution is just reset for an epic cast, put all the poms on it.
bright mango
hi i've recently beaten 0 heat and i'm planning on going all the way
Good luck on going all the way!!
Do you mean 64 heat?
mossy zinc
I doubt they know max heat is 64.
bright mango
<@!707766892538101803> you're probably better off in <#725021347968712724> or <#...
I’m at 130 hrs. Not anywhere near the endgame
Am i in the right place?
solar storm
I’m at 130 hrs. Not anywhere near the endgame<:squirtdevious:472124054569222144>
Took me past 200
Yeah absolutely!
Everyone has their own pace, don’t feel bad about not completing it in fifty hours, some players just need to take things slower
dire steppe
maybe they want to do 64
wintry berry
64 heat is the real endgame
bright mango
I’m just too lazy to gift to the gods