whats so good about zag bow? i couldnt find a use for the special
#h1-builds-and-combat
fair locust
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Ranged nemesis y’all
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whats so good about zag bow? i couldnt find a use for the special
Ranged Nemesis
limber cloak
at first i was like eh its probably a poor man's nemesis, then i found out its a rich man's nemesis
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Build accordingly
limber cloak
whats so good about zag bow? i couldnt find a use for the special
you shouldnt be specialling with non chiron bows tbh
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Easily my undiscovered gem of the game
wary tundra
fair locust
rama bow is really good for special it seems
limber cloak
it has a 15% crit chance, which can be insane when combined with artemis attack and aphro dash with heart rend (150% crit damage)
yep, get a on hit special with rama
cover the entire room with it
then attack one single enemy with attack
spiral badge
Rama is probably the best rounded weapon in the game
fair locust
i like getting rama with high crit primary attack
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That I will say categorically
fair locust
everything dies
limber cloak
rama is the only weapon in the game that has cleared 60 heat
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Hell yes
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Put Zeus on the special and go to town
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It takes a little learning to play with it but Zeus shield is top 3 fun builds in this game
I promise
fair locust
forgot it was a fast multihit
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Destructo disk yo
fair locust
now that you say that it sounds interesting
drifting robin
Rama is one of my favorite aspects
fair locust
heard zeus sucks overall but thats a really clever use for lightning
limber cloak
i have too many fav aspects to make a list out of em
spiral badge
Learn both to throw and recall the shield offensively, as well as learn to run away from the shield around the room while it buzz saws enemies
wary tundra
@spiral badge @fair locust yeah he is right I literally just did a smoldering air zesus chias shield build and holy crap I melted hades so fast
limber cloak
as you run around enemies
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Use it for either a quick fire/return CQC tool or as an area lockdown tool
Also whoever told you Zeus was bad in general is extremely wrong
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Just make sure you get it back in your hands when you need it
limber cloak
no non-zag aspect of the game is bad really
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The idea is to be able to redirect its motion quickly when you need to
limber cloak
they all have their own uses and play styles
some have a difficult learning curve, which you'll have to get too
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So either throw it far away while you deal with a close problem, or keep it close by constantly throwing and retrieving it to adjust its trajectory
fair locust
i get the idea of zeus's aspect but it didnt seem worthwhile at first
spiral badge
Think of it as having 2 main attacks instead of 1 attack and 1 special
They are truly equals with Zeus shield
You must use both equally and liberally. Put Zeus on your disk and have fun
Also esp with Zeus/Zeus throwing your shield out, retrieving it and then just turning tail and letting it chase you is an extremely valid strategy
Fun as hell and almost no effort on your part lol
limber cloak
yeah, with this id recommend using a good damaging dash
since youll be dashing into enemies a lot
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Also if you get any kind of Hermès movement speed boost that tech gets much more powerful
At zag’s default speed you can about keep up with the rate your shield chases you and no more
Being able to outrun your shield even by a little bit is a tremendous boost to your options and maneuverability when making your shield chase you
Same story for more dashes. Though my personal favorite for the task is hyper sprint
Any speed makes a big diff though, you just need to clear 100% of your shield’s chase speed
Just make sure you don’t get too far ahead and make it chase you across an empty room at that point. It’s always faster to catch it and dash across a room if you need to relocate it quickly
flat garden
any of you know of any better build for dashing only
i was using zeus dash until i died to theseus's rockets
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I mean
I can’t imagine there being a better combo for dash only than SS Splash dash
coral cave
Blade dash with gilga is pretty OK as well
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Splash dash or blade rifts in general for damage
Have you tried those on?
Blades are probably higher but need more t2’s
Though if you’re building that way anyway Vicious Cycle could treat you great
As good or better than SS
flat garden
i was confused as to what you meant by ss but then i realised it
ares would be pretty hard early on
flat garden
Blade dash with gilga is pretty OK as well
why with gilga, exactly
hearty elbow
4 base dashes
flat garden
ah yeah i didnt even think about that
hearty elbow
The dashes also happen faster than normal
flat garden
ive just been using zag fists for that sweet sweet dodge chance
cheers for the inputs
drifting robin
Lambent plume is fun to use with it
coarse moss
if you use gilgamesh you can use ruthless reflex. 50% global damage is no joke
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Gilgamesh 
So much promise, so touchy and picky in execution
Though it does let you run ruthless which is aces ^^^^
coral cave
Gilga is only good for dash only runs
coarse moss
that with dio aid is 👌
spiral badge
Why does talos heavy knuckle feel like it does gilga better than gilga ugh
Just makes me sad in comparison
Such a polarized aspect. You can’t call it bad because if it’s inbuilt strengths, but Gilga is so un-rewarding unless you build it exactly the way it wants you to IMO
coral cave
Heavy knuckle worst fist hammer don't @ me
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Surprise yourself playing it with on talos
Pretend you’re playing something between gilga and nemesis
I thought it was trash until I saw a wriste vid that inspired me
It’s actually a really tasty combo, a viable Alternate Gilga if regular gilga makes you sad sometimes like me
coral cave
I take fists for speed and efficiency
I feel like heavy isn't fast or efficient
If I want more damage I'd go for like bow or something
spiral badge
the difference is it slows you down less than you think
because your dash attack actually means something again
that's why i say it plays like nemesis in a sense
the combo is dash attack -> dash attack -> 1-2 punch -> repeat
Build it for % damage and it plays like such a more interesting interpretation of the "heavy fist" archetype than gilga imo
build for heart rend just like nemesis and kaboom
lavish trench
i hear you build Guan Yu around the special
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ordinarily
lavish trench
whats the best modifier for that? Aprho?
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aphro/artemis
the "best" is going to work out to "how do i build heart rend into this" for weapons like GY
with high base damage and spammable attacks, generally
Though aphro is probably better on attack. Big sweeps of weak
and arty to clean things up with skewer
hearty elbow
I don't think you can get that on GY?
Yeah, you can't. I think Serrated Point is perfectly fine too, GY base dash strike damage is 30 (normal is 20) so it trucks pretty hard
cunning urchin
Serrated Point is faster than Charged Skewer, but it's more difficult to use.
limber cloak
serrated point is risky yeah
hearty elbow
Spin hammers are a trap, but if you're not playing with time restrictions they're probably fine
proven osprey
Turns out charged skewer is pretty fast actually
cunning urchin
It is.
robust anchor
true
proven osprey
Serrated point needs more dashes
I'll pick skewer over serrated for tartarus
100% sure it's faster
drifting robin
Breaching skewer is also pretty good
hearty elbow
I don't think that's true. Serrated Point still lets you dash backward + dash strike forward, which is basically a projectile on spear
You don't need extra dashes to do that consistently
drifting robin
I think charged skewer is safer
cunning urchin
100% sure it's faster
But you're not a speedrunner, though, so it doesn't count. 
proven osprey
You don't need extra dashes to do that consistently
more dashes for speed I mean
cunning urchin
Your best time is only 8.something. That's not even sub 7.
proven osprey
Is it even my fault if no one has done better
cunning urchin
Quick Spin and Massive Spin are both excellent. Winged Serpent is kind of whatever, still good if you already have a spin hammer, anyway.
hearty elbow
Oh, for sure your burst won't be as high without extra dashes, but also serrated point dash strike takes a while, so I'm not sure if it scales like Sword/ME fist with dashes
cunning urchin
Is it even my fault if no one has done better
Yes, but you're lucky Lady Aphrodite forgave you for selling her boon that run.
drifting robin
@proven osprey Just watched your GY world record and dam are you good at it
hearty elbow
That's basically what I think every time I get Wave of Despair. "neat, extra gold/UC fodder"
proven osprey
It was an epic Different League
I'd never sell that in any other context than speed
hearty elbow
Oof, yeah
hearty elbow
Multiple times even
coral cave
Even bettef
cunning urchin
I think Lady Aphrodite just wanted to give me some gold
She reacted with 😭 when you told her what you did.
coral cave
Watch the cash roll in
cunning urchin
So.
hearty elbow
Parting Shot is the low heat introduction to Approval Process
cunning urchin
No.
proven osprey
But
cunning urchin
No.
coral cave
It mysteriously decides to not show up whenever I actually need it tho
Which is interesting
proven osprey
You can sob when you laugh too much Nyaanyaa
hearty elbow
I know right? I did 3 runs in a row into Elysium to try to intentionally test once and for all what Parting Shot actually does, and it never showed up
cunning urchin
That would be 😂 not 😭.
coral cave
Parting shot bottom tier duo ngl
cunning urchin
Don't try to twist it.
coral cave
Best duo has gotta be cold embrace
hearty elbow
Speaking of, I asked that here yesterday I think, and i got one answer, but I don't trust it because it feels like everybody has a different emotion of what Parting Shot does. What is the consensus here?
cunning urchin
The concensus is that most people don't know.
That's not helpful, but that's the concensus.
coral cave
Parting shot makes your cast do backstab damage or something
cunning urchin
"It does something to casts" is the concensus.
proven osprey
I think
coral cave
Either way it is bad
proven osprey
Cast can backstab. Backstab better.
cunning urchin
Yes, what Astaos said is correct.
hearty elbow
Lol, I got it yesterday on an Eris Slicing Shot meme run and discord convinced me not to take it because it only applies to casts that can backstab. Which is definitely one of the interpretations I've heard.
cunning urchin
cunning urchin
Anything that I do with it. 
proven osprey
Well
cunning urchin
Charged Skewer run with 100% crit chance bug is sick. You should try it sometime.
proven osprey
Let me time travel real quick
proven osprey
Btw you have no idea how much I've studied this one lol
cunning urchin
How much you've studied what? That run?
proven osprey
Yeah
cunning urchin
I have an idea lol.
proven osprey
Oh?
limber cloak
didnt haelian confirm from the devs that parting shot adds global backstab
or am i dreaming
cunning urchin
No idea. I know that's what it does, though.
heady radish
Yes it adds global backstab and allows casts to benefit from all global backstab related things. It didnt always work but unless something recently changed it is now functional
cunning urchin
No one believes bad beo players, though.
heady radish
Thats fair I wouldn't believe me either
half crater
the only thing i know for sure is you gotta actually backstab to get the bonus
that's as far as my science went
desert cypress
Heart rend?
brazen nest
I'm at work thinking I want to play and beat hades with that crappy spear
desert cypress
What spear
desert cypress
Oh yeah that one
hearty elbow
so it doesn't apply to slicing shot or trippy shot?
brazen nest
Any spear, I'm bad with every spear
heady radish
Correct. Neither slicing or trippy can backstab
desert cypress
Hades spear is good
brazen nest
At lvl1 it isn't that good
desert cypress
Nothing is good at lvl1
limber cloak
except hera
brazen nest
I did better with achilles, but ares and artemis were bass
half crater
yeah if you can't backstab with it it can't parting shot
brazen nest
Nemesis is pretty good at lvl1
half crater
hence why you can't get the duo on beo
heady radish
Fun fact: I have no idea why but curse of drowning can backstab
desert cypress
Hera is always good
limber cloak
nemesis isnt good at lvl 1
cunning urchin
Lv.1 Nemesis is fine.
desert cypress
All zag aspects are not very good at lvl1
brazen nest
I just need a good build, honestly and stop being dumb
I think I'll try lame build
Demeter + athena
heady radish
I just need a good build, honestly and stop being dumb
That latter one is hard
cunning urchin
Build is secondary tbh. It's more about learning how to deal with different enemies and when to empty-dash.
desert cypress
Zeus Shield with Thunder Flourish = win
brazen nest
Athena and demeter will help me when I'm dumb
hearty elbow
Finding an aspect you like and trying everything that comes to mind is good place to start
brazen nest
Divine dash, meme beam, healing when without defiance
I'll go for something like that
desert cypress
Stubborn roots is unreliable
heady radish
Ye builds are really not necessary until the highest level of speedrunning and heat
Just try things and see what happens
heady radish
We all are
limber cloak
using op builds isnt how you'll get better
desert cypress
If you’re bad, you don’t need builds
brazen nest
Got to survive and get that 10 blood
limber cloak
just try everything
desert cypress
Just keep trying
cunning urchin
Yeah, I think taking one aspect you like to Lv.5 and finishing bounties with it is a good way improve at the game and push into higher heats fast. You'll also get a lot of resources for your mirror and for maxing out more aspects to try out.
limber cloak
git gud, is what it boils down to
cunning urchin
Also maxing out keepsakes and stuff.
brazen nest
I'm ok with talos and chiron, pretty confident
desert cypress
I have one keepsake left to max and then I have 100% achievements
cunning urchin
Chiron is way easier out of those two.
heady radish
Talos is v hard to play but fun. If you like it play it
desert cypress
I also have to get black out legendary for the final prophecy
proven osprey
You take the Zag spear, you slam flurry jab on it with a nice lightning strike and you'll say hi to dad in no time
heady radish
Ah balanced jab
desert cypress
Lvl 5 zag spear
heady radish
Lvl 1 zag spear is fine with balanced jab
half crater
flurry jab is pretty balanced on zag spear
desert cypress
Hm
brazen nest
Talos is my best time by far
desert cypress
I must be the only person that doesn’t like Achilles Spear
proven osprey
It's cool
heady radish
Different strokes for different folks
proven osprey
I believe it's hard to master
robust anchor
its for sure better than zag spear
robust anchor
😳
desert cypress
Controllers are funny and good
heady radish
Watching duunk0 play Achilles is true art
cunning urchin
Yeah, speedrunners just press buttons really fast. That's a fact. 
desert cypress
When I learned that switch pro controller works perfect on pc I immediately went for that
hearty elbow
I learned yesterday that I can rebind the controller from Steam to make the Accept/Cancel buttons the same between PC and Switch
half crater
you gotta press the right buttons fast
proven osprey
and get free rooms
cunning urchin
you gotta press the right buttons fast
That's already delving into high heat speedruns.
half crater
or i guess you could just press random buttons as fast as you can for a while, then retroactively make a speedrun category where the goal is to do whatever you happened to do
drifting robin
Spam buttons = speedrunning
brazen nest
I like either super agressive weapons or super lame
heady radish
To be clear to anyone reading
brazen nest
Talos, zag shield, nemesis, chiron bow
desert cypress
I got out of tartarus blindfolded by pressing buttons quickly
heady radish
Speedrunning very hard
half crater
That's already delving into high heat speedruns.
the first right button for speedruns is the one you press to play eris
robust anchor
i think haelian did a blindfold run
drifting robin
The way you speedrun eris is press x, b, y really quickly over and over again
hearty elbow
Eris feels like a lot more fun to play now that the buff actually has to be maintained
robust anchor
with his wife telling him whats going on
half crater
did he win
cunning urchin
Haelian and Wriste13 did blindfolded runs.
hearty elbow
Sure Footing op
desert cypress
I didn’t watch the full thing cause I got tired
Sure footing is amazing if your blindfolded
He got lucky
half crater
i just skip to the hades fight on those types of videos lol
jolly niche
Real talk why doesn’t hades speed runs have a fishing category? I need fish% in my life
half crater
'cause i'm lazy and have no attention span
proven osprey
I watched Haelian dying in lava once y
robust anchor
sometimes i see people say something is good for speedruns. what makes something good for speedruns and not for regular runs
desert cypress
'cause i'm lazy and have no attention span
Ohokwy ohokwhy
heady radish
The hades fight is the most boring part of any run tho
robust anchor
if its good for speedruns surely its also good for normal runs yes
drifting robin
sometimes i see people say something is good for speedruns. what makes something...
I mean in speedruns you have to be fast but not always safe
jolly niche
Quick question does Artemis’ boons stack with Nemesis’ effect
half crater
Ohokwy ohokwhy
ohokbecause
robust anchor
if you die your run is invalid
proven osprey
It depends of the safety or if the build is like a high highroll
brazen nest
I like old platforms speedruns
heady radish
Quick question does Artemis’ boons stack with Nemesis’ effect
Yes its additive
desert cypress
Ohokmakessense
jolly niche
Hell yea
brazen nest
Castlevania, megaman and such
heady radish
All crit chance is additive
drifting robin
Right but speedrunners have to be good enough not to die
half crater
Ohokmakessense
its nice to be addressed in the ancient language of my people
proven osprey
Like I would never tell anyone to go ME on Guan Yu
desert cypress
Ah yes
heady radish
Right but speedrunners have to be good enough not to die
Dying is more common on speedruns than you think
desert cypress
Spaceless script
drifting robin
Thats because they want to reset
desert cypress
The ancient text
half crater
yup
heady radish
Sometimes you still die
heady radish
Like jaturally
half crater
i die all the time on anyheat speedruns
proven osprey
I think dying should be rare
half crater
"it can't kill me, its HL0"
desert cypress
What is ME, I forget
hearty elbow
Like I would never tell anyone to go ME on Guan Yu
I wonder if that would even be that bad. Curse of Agony, Divine Flourish, use a dash strike + charged skewer
drifting robin
Ive died once naturally in like 40 attempts of speedrunning eris
robust anchor
its not like speedrunners just recklessly play. do they not pick the strategies with the best likely outcome
limber cloak
What is ME, I forget
merciful end
robust anchor
isnt that what all players should do
desert cypress
I always get ME confused with EM
proven osprey
I wonder if that would even be *that* bad. Curse of Agony, Divine Flourish, use...
No I mean it is the best for any heat speedruns
hearty elbow
oh lmao fair
desert cypress
People talk about merciful end a lot
heady radish
When you are pushing weapons to their absolute limit you have to trade health for damage
limber cloak
its not like speedrunners just recklessly play. do they not pick the strategies ...
speedrunners always pick dps over defense
attack over defense if you will
desert cypress
Also thanks Paper
heady radish
Because if you play safe then someone else won't and might get a better time
drifting robin
Like splash dash is not safe if you just want a clear
robust anchor
you have to do that normallyanyway with td3
limber cloak
sometimes, that combined with fo2 can be deadly especially in bosses
drifting robin
But with eris it has a lot of dps but not a lot of safety
proven osprey
FO2 HC gamer here
desert cypress
FO2 scares me
limber cloak
not really, td3 is 5 mins per region
drifting robin
Yeah the only scary part I find of speedrunning is FO2 hades fight
robust anchor
ya you gotta play fast
drifting robin
The skulls go as fast as freaking bullets
limber cloak
most speedruns take sub 10 mins to clear all the regions
drifting robin
Fo2 for the rest of the run isnt htat bad
desert cypress
FO2 BP2 
robust anchor
speedrunners use fast strategy? but nonspeedruns aren’t supposed to be fast?
limber cloak
non speedruns can be safe
drifting robin
most speedruns take sub 10 mins to clear all the regions
Im not that good lol 😦
robust anchor
yes so
limber cloak
because you, at the minimum, have 5 mins to clear every region
drifting robin
speedrunners use fast strategy? but nonspeedruns aren’t supposed to be fast?
You dont have to if you just want a clear
limber cloak
5 mins is a lot
desert cypress
I should try to best my heat record
robust anchor
they use the same strategies for sure
drifting robin
The max speedrunners can take to clear a region is like 2 minutes
limber cloak
where as in speedruns, athena dash (except for ME purposes) is not really ideal
desert cypress
I’ve gotten up to 32 heat, but I wanna go higher
limber cloak
they use the same strategies for sure
again, speedrunners choose attack over defense.
robust anchor
like where do you say wow i dont wanna do this extra damage
yes but damage is always good :(
limber cloak
i dont think ive ever seen any speedrunner take health over a boon
whereas in normal runs that would be normal to do
hearty elbow
How good is Sigil post nerf? Seems... problematic to charge for most aspects
cunning urchin
did he win
Haelian won both times, and Wriste13 also won his.
desert cypress
Sigil is still good
heady radish
sigil is still v good
desert cypress
Sigil of the Dad is rad
heady radish
you can supplement with aether nets, proud bearing, support fire etc.
limber cloak
wait how does support fire benefit dad call
hearty elbow
Do you save for the full bar or just spend it when the half bar comes up
drifting robin
Sigil is good if you dont have a high dps call or dont need an extra boon for the build eg. Tidal dash for asphodel
desert cypress
Everything runs smoother with AetherNet™️
hearty elbow
All damage causes +call charge
drifting robin
If you have zeus call dont use sigil
desert cypress
You can’t use sigil though lol
desert cypress
Yeah
heady radish
the most important thing in building call is number of hits. thats why support fire is good
limber cloak
wait can you get smoldering air with hades call
heady radish
also @hearty elbow you normally do half call. resetting animations into a known quantity is too valuable
desert cypress
It wouldn’t work
limber cloak
like just get a olympian call, then sell it and equip hades call when you have smoldering air
heady radish
wait can you get smoldering air with hades call
it does not work
limber cloak
ah
desert cypress
25 percent isn’t enough to fill hades call
Getting greater call with Sigil of the Dad is easy though
drifting robin
You can’t use sigil though lol
I meant sell the call for sigil
desert cypress
Ah
drifting robin
Dont do that is what I was saying
desert cypress
Gotcha
desert cypress
I don’t usually go for dio
drifting robin
This conversation has motivated me to try and get a sub 10 with eris
Im 40 seconds away
drifting robin
If I get cluster + rocket im golden
I have never gotten that combo before and really want it
desert cypress
Cluster rockets are so good
I got it last night
Beat EM4 with it
Best run yet
Sea storm poseidon special
So so fun
cunning urchin
Speedrun tactics and strategies are for the most part much safer than what most casual players do. Optiming your builds and rotations for DPS just lets you kill enemies so fast that they don't pose much of a threat. It's only dangerous when you overextend.
hearty elbow
I have never gotten that combo before and really want it
It's so so good. One of my absolute favorite combos
cunning urchin
Like, it doesn't even matter what the Furies do if you kill them in seconds. They don't even get enough attack turns to do enough damage to take a DD.
drifting robin
Yeah the only fight where I lose a dd in speedrunning is either lernie or hades
Heroes fight goes by in like 10 seconds
heady radish
i think thats only true if you are bad at speedrunning
pseedrunning sword spear and fists is dangerous
there's no way around it
half crater
speedrunning sword is dangerous whether you're good or bad at it
"empty dashes? sounds like less dps"
heady radish
^
drifting robin
Fists with ME is so freaking fast that it doest even matter
hearty elbow
zap.... zaa...
cunning urchin
zap.... zaa...
I have no idea, either.
heady radish
Zeus attack, arti special, poseidon dash
zeus attack, arti special, ares dash
half crater
are discussions between speedrunners just illegible messes of acronyms
hearty elbow
OWO
hearty elbow
Definitely not
robust anchor
whats a build that people will say it sucks but works very well for you
that i should try
hearty elbow
Relentless Volley + Arctic Blast Chiron
heady radish
to be clear. most builds don't suck. they just aren't optimal. making a build "suck" is genuinely hard in hades
tame bison
Arthur dio strike!
heady radish
^ok that sucks
cunning urchin
pseedrunning sword spear and fists is dangerous
It's still way safer than what casual players do who don't know the meta of builds and damage rotations.
robust anchor
ok i trust u wump
tame bison
lol
robust anchor
its for privileged status right
hearty elbow
I thought it sucked until I needed to max my Demeter keepsake in HM and I was actually pretty impressed
tame bison
Sounds awful don’t do it
cunning urchin
are discussions between speedrunners just illegible messes of acronyms
No, they're just about "no ME in 3 runs 😭" "same 😭."
robust anchor
nobody else gave me a build except ledger and nobody said his build sucks
half crater
ledgers build sucks
wait what was it
oh arctic blast chiron
i wouldn't say it sucks but i wouldn't say its that good either
its fine probably
heady radish
It's still way safer than what casual players do who don't know the meta of buil...
that depends on how much you attribute safety to player skill vs damage builds. High Confidence Dedge builds on nemesis are dangerous at all levels. casual players don't have to care about their times. they can empty dash and wait for openings. speed runners cannot
hearty elbow
I'm bad at EM4 and it helped slow down Dad enough for me to react lol. More than meta Chiron builds can say
hearty elbow
Oh for sure
I'm not saying Demeter is good lol. Just that I thought it would be awful and it wasn't
half crater
that's fair
proven osprey
No, they're just about "no ME in 3 runs 😭" "same 😭."
that's about 80% true
half crater
yeah its definitely not actively bad
heady radish
that's about 80% true
don't play ME weapons 🙂
proven osprey
then if you don't play ME
cunning urchin
But then you're not a Real Speedrunner™️.
proven osprey
"No free rooms game bad"
heady radish
i don't play ME
hearty elbow
I had the sickest rube goldberg build yesterday. Eris + SS + Vicious Cycle + Hunting Blades + Mirage Shot with Aphrodite's Aid to lock bosses down.
heady radish
"No free rooms game bad"
well yes this is always true
half crater
don't play ME weapons 🙂
no i wanna do an ME beo run
proven osprey
I'm real but I'm not a speedrunner indeed
half crater
"me is op wym"
cunning urchin
no i wanna do an ME beo run
Do that and beat @heady radish's time.
Whatever it is.
heady radish
ye okokwy do it 🙂
drifting robin
but ZAP and ZAA are decidedly not
With eris the definitely are
heady radish
ZAP implies fists
half crater
ye okokwy do it 🙂
oh no
heady radish
no one does eris differently
half crater
now i gotta at least try
drifting robin
ZAP implies fists
oh ok
heady radish
eris builds are nearly always identical except for the special boon
and its either artemis or aphrodite
again tho this is only at the highest level. if you like playing dire misfortune eris play dire misfortune eris
cunning urchin
whats a build that people will say it sucks but works very well for you
No idea. People always steal my builds. 
cunning urchin
I guess hmmmm Tempest Strike spin build on Guan Yu. But @proven osprey also does that lol.
heady radish
I pommed PP in my WR
good job
robust anchor
to submit for barrel roll i post screen in #h1-victory-boasting ? and ping someone? or
drifting robin
The only thing I hate about speedrunning is how quickly you can get screwed over by a 3/4/5 sack
cunning urchin
to submit for barrel roll i post screen in <#725021639506526249> ? and ping some...
Submission form is linked in the spreadsheet.
hearty elbow
That definitely doesn't happen for heat runs too >_>
drifting robin
Is there going to be a challenge like this next month?
Im too late for this one but mabye next months
cunning urchin
That definitely doesn't happen for heat runs too >_>
Yeah, because we die in Tartarus.
hearty elbow
Fair
proven osprey
The current challenge is eternal Pengy
lost whale
I have a question!
I've been trying to get Winter Harvest for like 6 runs but no dice... do you need a bond forged with Demeter before it'll drop?
I only got Dio's legendary (as many tries in) immediately after forging a bond with him, but I thought it was a coincidence.
heady radish
barrel run honestly got super sweaty super fast
drifting robin
The current challenge is eternal Pengy
I meant for people who arent lvl 100 mafia boss at this game
proven osprey
yeah the weekend was deadly
hearty elbow
I have a question!
I've been trying to get Winter Harvest for like 6 runs but n...
This is also me. Nope, it just never appears lol
spiral badge
At least the scrubberducks got some scraps on the board at the start
Very polite of y’all
cunning urchin
Is there going to be a challenge like this next month?
There will be more challenges. You can still submit runs for the challenges from December if you feel that the Heat is too high for you now in the "Do a barrel roll!" challenges.
drifting robin
ok cool
proven osprey
Also I recommend past challenges
drifting robin
Thanks
proven osprey
Especially "Imperial Jade"
drifting robin
I dont see any past challenges in the pinned messages
cunning urchin
They're all on the spreadsheet.
drifting robin
ok
So in the zagrues is coming to town challenge how can you verify that you cleared every satyr tunnel
proven osprey
The only way is having Nyaanyaa on your stream verifying it
drifting robin
ok
heady radish
its a casual challenge
cunning urchin
We don't verify runs. The only person you would be cheating is yourself.
robust anchor
personal liability is allowed? for barrel roll?
drifting robin
We don't verify runs. The only person you would be cheating is yourself. <:squir...
ok
heady radish
i assume it is
cunning urchin
Yes, you can use Hell mode.
drifting robin
I feel like I can complete that challenge
proven osprey
You can
drifting robin
So there are 3 challenges rn so far right?
cunning urchin
So there are 3 challenges rn so far right?
Right.
drifting robin
ok
hollow prairie
idk if barrel roll gets much sweatier
We are already at 39 heat and 12:17 sooooo, who's doing the 40 heat run? Lmao
drifting robin
Im looking forward to future challenges
heady radish
We are already at 39 heat and 12:17 sooooo, who's doing the 40 heat run? Lmao
i know. like i said. got very sweaty very fast
and unless someone gets a very good run p sure bright's time is standing until the end of the month
hollow prairie
Nah, sub 10 40 heat arthur incom
cunning urchin
It's our 2021 Challenge, not Feb 2021. Also, we always allow submissions for challenges from previous months.
willow haven
||err i got all hearts on thanatos, meg and dusa, still can't unlock aphro's heart, am i supposed to do something more?||
proven osprey
Nah, sub 10 40 heat arthur incom
Yeah ma boi, go for it
Aphrodite's heart is a mystery, Sabita.
willow haven
i saw the braindead guide to 32 heat
proven osprey
And heat too
willow haven
and it kinda worked
proven osprey
Guess you're not wrong
cunning urchin
You just gotta get her dialogues if you've forged the bonds.
willow haven
i've encountered her quite a bit since i was doing ares/aphro duo
no dialogues 
since like the past 2-3 runs
heady radish
dialogue is weird in this game. I finished ares quest and he didn't acknowledge it for like 20 runs where i saw ares
just keep going and let it happen naturally
willow haven
||the 10k kills right?||
proven osprey
A lot of people are like wondering how to unlock this and that
I just played the game
heady radish
^
cunning urchin
I dunno it was bugged for me for months in Early Access until they fixed it and I got the dialogue to unlock her affinity gauge right away.
willow haven
oH
cunning urchin
Yeah just do more runs, gift people, talk to people.
willow haven
dude did you read
cunning urchin
I thought you said you forged a bond with Dusa.
cunning urchin
You just said you didn't lol.
heady radish
except aphro and dusa for some reason
i think this is the message thats confusing people myself included
cunning urchin
If it seems like it's taking too long, F10.
There have been bugs like that before, doesn't hurt to have them look into it.
heady radish
the dialogue system is also so layered that it can take a LONG time to untangle
willow haven
the thing is i googled this and they did say i had to go through some dialogues for that
and i did
heady radish
for instance patty and achilles are so integral to several different storylines that getting antos takes FOREVER
proven osprey
Even with dialogues it's random
willow haven
not as long as sisyphus 
cunning urchin
If you add your Discord tag in your bug report, they can get back to you on whether you just need to keep trying or they've fixed a bug.
willow haven
cunning urchin
If you can't get Antos, you could always just throw Astaos at your enemies.
Just keep him in a Poké Ball, so he can't escape.
willow haven
proven osprey
willow haven
willow haven
@proven osprey used Guan Yu, it was ineffective
proven osprey
proven osprey
Just keep him in a Poké Ball, so he can't escape.
That's not very nice?
proven osprey
I'm a free Astaos
willow haven
only applies if you're in 🇺🇸
cunning urchin
I'm a free Astaos
spiral badge
I love how you can tell by observation that Pokémon was made in a country and culture that doesn’t have PETA
Can you imagine trying to sell that as an original concept to an American audience lol
cunning urchin
Please stay on topic.
proven osprey
What's the topic again
cunning urchin
lost whale
so has anyone here gotten Winter Harvest without having Demeter bond forged?
cunning urchin
Yes.
lost whale
cool
cunning urchin
Affinity has nothing to do with boon chance.
lost whale
I'm just unlucky then
willow haven
you don't need bonds to get boons
yeah
i was giga unlucky today, https://i.imgur.com/u7xEyZq.jpg
spiral badge
If it makes you feel any better Demeter is almost certainly laughing about it
spiral badge
Lol what monkeys paw did you wish on to get that screen
cunning urchin
But.
proven osprey
You'll need 2 of these 3 : Ravenous will Killing Freeze Artic Blast
cunning urchin
Smoldering Air is way better.
willow haven
Lol what monkeys paw did you wish on to get that screen
XDD
proven osprey
You have Zeus call
spiral badge
Lmfao
willow haven
xD
cunning urchin
Easy, you take Smoldering Air.
proven osprey
Why you reroll on smoldering
lost whale
I know the harvest reqs, I just haven't gotten the RNG for it
spiral badge
Lollllll
willow haven
i wanted to off myself man
spiral badge
I know the harvest reqs, I just haven't gotten the RNG for it
5head comment but make sure you get the legendary mirror perk going if you’re hunting it
willow haven
i was going for curse of longing that is why i skipped smoldering
i just wanted to enjoy some doom numbers
it was doing like 800 damage
lost whale
Yep, right now I'm saving up darkness to rank up the 'reroll rooms' currency
willow haven
eh
spiral badge
You want that 100%ed before you go for max rolls
because you can fudge max rolls with the contractor upgrade that gives you rolls when you pick up a key
And get the bootleg sawn-off version of it for much less darkness spent
willow haven
i think they're saying that they're saving darkness for the last mirror upgrade (?)
spiral badge
Yeah, that’s what I’m getting at. Sorry if I wasnt clear
willow haven
aye they most probably have that contractor upgrade
proven osprey
Get keys
willow haven
ain't boon rerolls better than chamber rerolls 
spiral badge
I am contractually obligated to answer yes
drifting robin
ain't boon rerolls better than chamber rerolls <:Thonk:339340502019080192>
In my opinion they are
willow haven
u got any op builds aurash?
cunning urchin
@lost whale Attack, Special, Cast, and Dash are priority slots. Gods will always offer at least 1 priority boon. That means only two boons can be a Duo/Legendary until you have those priority slots filled.
Eligibility for other Duos/Legendary from the respective god makes it harder to get the one you want because that roll for a Legendary/Duo could give you the wrong one, easily.
God keepsakes, God's Legacy, Refreshing Nectar, Yarn of Ariadne, and Favor boons from Master Chaos increase your odds for Duos and Legendaries. Miniboss and Styx rewards have lower Duo/Legendary odds.
Fated Persuasion usually makes it easier to get a Duo or Legendary boon than Fated Authority, especially when you get to reroll a boon while you have a Yarn of Ariadne or Refreshing Nectar.
spiral badge
Hmmmm. I don’t know about my standard for OP next to others’. I try to focus on fun first, power second
brazen nest
Do you use more chance of epic or more duo/legendary?
spiral badge
With that in mind I love shield and fists most
willow haven
i've been having quite a bit of fun with high damage builds
spiral badge
Are you on PC sabita?
drifting robin
Do you use more chance of epic or more duo/legendary?
Depends on the build
brazen nest
Aurash I'm becoming you
spiral badge
If you want something fun
willow haven
yes
spiral badge
Get the starting boon selector mod
candid chasm
demeter/artemis boons are my favorite tbh
brazen nest
Shield and talos
willow haven
yeah i got the codexmenu mod today
spiral badge
And roll yourself into Heavy Knuckle talos for a run
willow haven
blasted that on rail with spreadfire and stuff 
willow haven
shee
spiral badge
Build it like nemesis
willow haven
sounds fun
brazen nest
I still have more confidence in chiron, but talos and zag shield are fun
drifting robin
Kinda sucks that I cant use it on switch
willow haven
LOL
spiral badge
Exactly like nemesis
proven osprey
Can we all pay tribute Nyaanyaa's dedication, it took her almost an hour for that message
keen sage
oh god I never realized that replacing a boon with another boon in the same slot kept the level upgrade
I am a doofus
brazen nest
I mean, face melting enemies with dash strike fun
spiral badge
Yes thank you @cunning urchin
spiral badge
I mean, face melting enemies with dash strike fun
That’s it child, let the hate flow through you
Zagreus shield asks a simple question: Why isn’t that enemy’s skull caved in?
And all you have to do to unlock nirvana, is answer “because I’m still running at him”
brazen nest
I like demeter cause chill makes things easier to react
cunning urchin
Can we all pay tribute Nyaanyaa's dedication, it took her almost an hour for tha...
And I've typed it out so many times already.
proven osprey
True
spiral badge
You need a c/p notebook at this point lol
spiral badge
copy/paste lol
willow haven
lol
proven osprey
Just imagine if they don't read it
brazen nest
I'm also not that good with cast builds yet
willow haven
i have a little notepad with ascii copy pasta for league of legends
candid chasm
i’m waiting for malphon final aspect :((
cunning urchin
Waiting for dialogue to unlock it?
candid chasm
yep
brazen nest
BTW, I need to give guan yu a blood to unlock other aspects?
proven osprey
You're not missing anything Josephine don't worry
candid chasm
just gotta find asterius lol
cunning urchin
BTW, I need to give guan yu a blood to unlock other aspects?
Requirements are pinned in #h1-story-discussion.
drifting robin
BTW, I need to give guan yu a blood to unlock other aspects?
no
Well you need to unlock guan yu
But dont need to max it out or anything
brazen nest
But I need lvl1?
cunning urchin
No.
drifting robin
Trust me in a little while you will have plently of titan blood
brazen nest
What I really need tho is spear tips
candid chasm
i like the last aspect of the bow, but i just wish it charged up a liiiiitle faster
brazen nest
Why is it so bad
drifting robin
Depends on the aspect
proven osprey
lol
drifting robin
Also spear isnt bad
brazen nest
I'd like to do that josie
drifting robin
I mean zag spear is bad but the rest of them are amazing
brazen nest
But I want the blood that I get from escaping with all weapons
drifting robin
Hammer sensitive
I think achilles is the only one that completely isnt
spiral badge
Yeah
drifting robin
But I want the blood that I get from escaping with all weapons
Use achilles
spiral badge
Achilles is the only universal power aspect for spear
brazen nest
Achilles is pretty good, I'm just bad at spear
drifting robin
Try and get hunting blades
keen sage
I'm bad at the shield.
drifting robin
Once you do that you dont even have to try anymore
brazen nest
I'll try against, ares and artemis didn't want to give me it
I had the boons from asphodel onward
cunning urchin
You can watch spear runs on the high heat leaderboard or speedrun leaderboard. That should help a lot with figuring out how to get your damage.
brazen nest
Artemis and ares appeared like 4 or 5 times
drifting robin
oof
brazen nest
And no hunting blades
candid chasm
what spear aspect is best ?
drifting robin
what spear aspect is best ?
Depends on how good you are on each
brazen nest
Sometimes press special to inflict some curse
keen sage
I tried using the bull rush and it didn't seem great
drifting robin
Achilles is probably the most consistent
candid chasm
i like aspect of zeus
candid chasm
ares / demeter / artemis is chefs kiss
cunning urchin
Zag Spear is the weakest aspect in the game until you get Flurry Jab and it becomes top tier.
drifting robin
Chaos shield is the most consistent imo
keen sage
note that I've only had the game a few days so I'm not actually good at it and haven't upgraded many aspects or anything
brazen nest
Getting their duo and it just go "bye"
drifting robin
With zeus/ares on special it becomes really goood
I prefer zues but thats just me
I like that immediate damage
candid chasm
does anyone actually use the rail ? i could not figure it out lol
lost whale
@cunning urchin thank youuu, super helpful, esp that first bit
keen sage
rail is fun
drifting robin
does anyone actually use the rail ? i could not figure it out lol
yessss
Your probably just using it wrong
keen sage
hits a lot per second so it's good with stacking curses
drifting robin
Its one of the top tier weapons I think
brazen nest
Rail is strange to learn
candid chasm
idk my fave weapons are fists n bow
keen sage
or with things that hit for a constant amount of damage like zeus boons
candid chasm
because ✨aiming hard✨
brazen nest
You get the rail and may think "oh, that's a nice bow"
drifting robin
You probably want to unlock eris if you are struggling with the rail
keen sage
it's fun using the rail with a lot of very bouncy lightning
brazen nest
But it's more like a mid range weapon that you want to keep firing forever
drifting robin
Zeus lighting is very good for eris
keen sage
or with chill or hangover
drifting robin
With poseidon on dash
brazen nest
Protip: hold atk and press dash
keen sage
I have trouble ever not picking Athena's dash when available
drifting robin
If you look at speedrun.com most of the submissions are with eris
brazen nest
Firing while dashing >
candid chasm
i like to stack ares/artemis with the fists just for like full attack
brazen nest
Athena dash is god tier
candid chasm
it really is
drifting robin
I prefer poseidon
keen sage
deflect is just... good
cunning urchin
hits a lot per second so it's good with stacking curses
Dire Misfortune is bad.
drifting robin
But for first clear it is very good
candid chasm
posideon is ok i just only like having it on my special
cunning urchin
You can make it work, of course, but there are just better options.
keen sage
I don't think I've ever used Dire Misfortune
drifting robin
On what weapon?
candid chasm
fists
keen sage
so I wasn't referring to that specifically
brazen nest
I'd say chiron is the most user friendly weapon
candid chasm
oh yeah
brazen nest
And zag shield comes just behind
drifting robin
Maybe not the best idea because the fists are very close range
keen sage
it was good having exagryph + chill + whatever the ability it is that makes chill damage things over time
cunning urchin
Ah gotcha.
brazen nest
Ah, that's great
candid chasm
i do special with demeter fists, dash over, get the 12 hits, special , repeat
cunning urchin
Guess my mind just went curse => Curse of Agony/Pain => Doom.
willow haven
@spiral badge these knuckles actually heavy
keen sage
hangover also stacks pretty well I think?
drifting robin
Guess my mind just went curse => Curse of Agony/Pain => Doom.
same
candid chasm
i think the 2nd best dash (after athena’s) is ares
brazen nest
I'm with you
drifting robin
Ares isnt that great imo
drifting robin
keen sage
I had good experience with Aphrodite's dash after getting the upgrade that causes Weak to increase damage taken, combined with the fists weapon
dash into people and pummel them
drifting robin
Its very hard to hit with ares dash
opal lodge
aight i woke up to 2k+ messages but yeh the answer to zag spear is just flurry
brazen nest
I found it pretty easy with talos
opal lodge
or exploding launcher
brazen nest
Pull enemies, dash through in, dash through out
candid chasm
demeter crystal cast will always have a special place in my heart lol
brazen nest
Meme beam ❤️
keen sage
laser beams are always good
brazen nest
But I call it lame city in a good way
drifting robin
But honestly imo the best dashes are athena-for safety poseidon-for speed artemis- for fun
brazen nest
It helped me clear my first runs
willow haven
candid chasm
i dont think i’ve ever gotten artemis dash?
keen sage
I can't even remember what Artemis' dash is
brazen nest
Artemis dash just boost your damage
willow haven
dash strike
brazen nest
Dash strike goes boom
drifting robin
Arty dash is pretty good for spread fire and nemesis
Since in nemesis you dash attack a lot
brazen nest
Talos too
willow haven
yeah if you've got some crit to back it up
brazen nest
Shield too
coarse moss
rama dash
brazen nest
Almost any weapon really
drifting robin
rama dash <:residentzag:580097451197857816>
Rama op
willow haven
rama actually busted
candid chasm
if rama didn’t take forever to charge :,)
brazen nest
Man, I wish I was better with zeus
drifting robin
if rama didn’t take forever to charge :,)
willow haven
dude i went with the explosive shot once
drifting robin
Timing and position are everything
drifting robin
dude i went with the explosive shot once
rip
willow haven
Man, I wish I was better with zeus
just go rama and zeus special
it becomes tower defense
drifting robin
Do you mean zeus shield?
willow haven
spiral badge
<@!377952517910429696> these knuckles actually heavy <:kekW:749235980745310228>
It’s so fun to actually hit hard with your dash attack isnt it
willow haven
yes
drifting robin
Oh zeus boons
candid chasm
i don’t like zeus boons 👁
drifting robin
Eris rail baby
candid chasm
mayb it’s because i never got good ones but the lighting just never did enough damage for me to find it useful
and his call is just eh bc u have to be so close
candid chasm
it’s probably bc i’m not the best at the game lol, i only just got ||persephone to come back down|| and i’m almost at 100 attempts
spiral badge
@brazen nest if you are my playstyle disciple and on PC you should try what Sabita was doing. If you love Talos, forcing heavy knuckle onto your first hammer for a run is a fun brand new way to play with it
full snow
Does Stygian Shard work on lava?
brazen nest
I'll keep an eye out for that yeah aurash
spiral badge
If you get it, dont build fists conventionally. Build much more like a nemesis run. Artemis attack, aphro special. Have fun!
full snow
Thank you!
proven osprey
Don't forget to bait the skull crushers in the lava to teach em 
austere tiger
it’s probably bc i’m not the best at the game lol, i only just got ||persephone ...
Yeah, it was about the same here. Now I did 16 heat on run 200
spiral badge
Fwiw the gap between 0-20 heat is half as big as the gap from 20 to 40
Which is to say don’t be intimidated by the pact early on
As long as you dont build for outrageously wrong things like AP2 lol
candid chasm
yeah what’s the best pact build early on?
i’ve been using the one with the extra blue heart (i forget what it’s called) and extreme measures
spiral badge
I feel like if heat progression was generally linear with difficulty 20 heat would be about 40 and 40 would be about 60
half crater
blue heart is damage control
spiral badge
So take that as you will. The first part of the curve is softer, then steepens as you climb
half crater
its a good choice for fast attack weapons (like rail and fists) but bad for slow weapons
candid chasm
i use fists so it’s not that bad for me
half crater
extreme measures is a good one to start with tho, as is the first level of tight deadline
cunning urchin
Fwiw the gap between 0-20 heat is half as big as the gap from 20 to 40
It's a much bigger jump than that from 20 to 40.
half crater
that's fair
TD1 is a 38 minute timer, which is really manageable for most people
but some folks just find it stressful even if they can beat it and don't enjoy it so ymmv
36
its 36 minutes i can't do math
candid chasm
my last clear was 23 minutes
spiral badge
@candid chasm put td2 on and jump off the ledge
Leap of faith
If you can clear with any consistency you can probably make it
cunning urchin
If you can do 23 minutes, you can do TD2.
spiral badge
If it kills you it kills you
drifting robin
Yeah t2 is 28