h1-builds-and-combat

[dry ember]

https://www.speedrun.com/hades/guide/a4gee

There is a meta with Eris Rail Lightning Strike Tidal Dash Seastorm Hades Keepsake build

But that is likely to change with the new patch. So I would wait before pouring practice hours in.

[grim dune]

yeah I've been focusing on fist, I watched some eris runs and I feel like my ability to aim the special with controller is too bad to ever really do great with rail

it just locks to dumb places or idk what

seems like rail would do better if I learned to play with m&kb

[dry ember]

yeah that's partly why Cluster Bomb or Rocket is so popular, at least imo

[dusty ridge]

and cluster rocket combo

[dry ember]

I mean the damage is insane, but it also helps those with bonobo aim.

[opal lodge]

for fists, lightning strike arty special is more consistent

ME is faster but it's reset city usually unless you get ME before lernie @grim dune

[river wing]

darkfore sight

oh wait i was looking at the wrong pic

[desert arrow]

crit is better on higher base damage, right? or does it matter for overall DPS

[river wing]

yes?

[dry ember]

yeah, crit is better for higher base or multi hit attack (Twin Shot Triple Shot, Double Edge, Serrated Edge, Dem Fists Upper, etc.)

[river wing]

base damage isn't really that important. it's base dps. if you get what im saying

[desert arrow]

right, that's what I was wondering

if weapon speed mattered or if it was base dps

[river wing]

crit works best when you already have lots of addictive bonus.

[desert arrow]

it feels like it's more effective with big single hits but the faster attack speed also gives it more chance to proc so it evens out, right?

[river wing]

yes and no

[dry ember]

that's what the math should be yes

but you can outscale crit with flat damage

[river wing]

the speed doesn't matter if the dps is the same

[desert arrow]

right

[dry ember]

is your attack speed is high enough

[river wing]

but generally the game is designed such that speedy things like fist/rail have lower dps

without the right boons

[dry ember]

something something linear growth vs multiplicative growth

[desert arrow]

that's what I was going to say too. it's more like crit is "less useful" on small fast attacks because you can stack flat damage on them

flat damage only scales with attack speed right?

[river wing]

nah. it's not less useful

there're global damage increase

[dry ember]

in general, yes, except Eris, 75% global buff means your flat damage scales (bad news) on top of weapon that can use flat damage well (lightning strike and tidal dash)

[desert arrow]

right of course

[river wing]

family fav/privillage status. Hades aid. Rush delivery, etc.

[desert arrow]

thank you FoxHope

I guess I was focusing too much on Lightning Strike being better for fast attack

Hyper Sprint + Rush Delivery is my favorite thing

with lambent of course

[primal hazel]

actually crit is played on chiron f.e.

[desert arrow]

(please don't tell me the hyper sprint buff doesn't affect rush delivery, and I was just too excited)

[primal hazel]

which is arguably a fast attack, low single hit dmg weapon

[primal hazel]

it should

speed is speed

[dry ember]

mostly because Zeus Spec doesn't work as well due to icd

otherwise, Zeus Spec is better.

[opal lodge]

it's kind of funny because the meta for chiron right now is splash dash start

[dry ember]

isn't that like every aspect though

[desert arrow]

are there any good dash strike builds rn

[primal hazel]

splash dash

[desert arrow]

I love dash striking but it's usually lackluster

[primal hazel]

what u put zeus on?

aid?

[primal hazel]

its not

[opal lodge]

nemesis as a weapon is literally just "hey kid you like dash strikes?

[dry ember]

Zag Bow and Rama

[desert arrow]

I tried to get a good splashdash build, I think hidden fist aspect works best

[dry ember]

because you almost always dash strike anyhow

[primal hazel]

eris

[desert arrow]

dash strikes...with a bow...?

[opal lodge]

no you dont really take zeus on chiron tbh

[primal hazel]

you dash strike with anything

[primal hazel]

thats why i was wondering

[desert arrow]

I should try Eris more though you're right

[dry ember]

yeah, that's how you optimally play bow. always dash strike

[primal hazel]

im just assumin splash dash with sea storm is standard

[opal lodge]

sea storm is generally pretty overrated tbh

[desert arrow]

I thought dash strike was less damage for the faster charge

[dry ember]

and yes, you can dash strike and powershot

[desert arrow]

this might be why I suck with bow tho

[primal hazel]

or is it just crit chiron with splash dash

[opal lodge]

it's nice to have but super overvalued imo

[primal hazel]

its overrated but good

[opal lodge]

yeah just crit chiron with splash dash

[river wing]

hidden fist isn't the best for dash strike-focused.
it's good when you've breaching cross and the enemy has armor.
Or when you've merciful end.
but dash strike is 20, compared to a normal swing of 60. in general it doesn't work out as well.

[turbid needle]

For the shield my favorite thing to do is use aspect of zeus, get a dyo or ares boon on it and then upgrade the hell out of that boon and just melt anything that has a heartbeat

[languid dagger]

guys, what is the consensus on caster builds with Talos like Ice Wine or Curse of Drowning: Stygian Soul or multiple casts?

[desert arrow]

yeah, what would be better for melee, zag shield?

[primal hazel]

stygian

[river wing]

Drowning works with both

[primal hazel]

for ice wine at least

[primal hazel]

no

[desert arrow]

oh, Eris

[young ether]

The 4th shield is melee i suppose

[desert arrow]

I was thinking zag shield just because of the higher base dash attack

[opal lodge]

if you're doing dio cast always stygian soul

[primal hazel]

you can make it ranged with charged shot

[desert arrow]

shield laser is best

[young ether]

Well then all shield can be melee and range

[primal hazel]

zag shield is not worth it, its not weak but other shield aspects are better

[desert arrow]

kill greatshield

[young ether]

That doesnt answer his question

[desert arrow]

what other shield aspect would you use for a dashstrike build then

[primal hazel]

i dont

[dry ember]

wait still zag shield

[desert arrow]

that was my question 😛

[dry ember]

not optimal

but yes, zag shield

[river wing]

if you want to play dash strike dashstrike. you should play Nemisis sword. Or get spear and pray for serrated point hammer.

[dry ember]

if you want to dash strike

[opal lodge]

you only dash strike on beo

as a beowulf person

[young ether]

Oh ok then

[opal lodge]

you basically only dash strike --> dragon rush (repeat)

[desert arrow]

hidden sheild has how much dash strike damage?

[primal hazel]

as i asid zag shield isnt that gr8

[river wing]

same as zag shield, 40

[desert arrow]

that kinda makes the zag aspect bonus useless doesn't it

[river wing]

but slower

[primal hazel]

he just means the classic shield dps rotation

beo is slower by nature

[desert arrow]

oh right

[dry ember]

no but his question is which shield is best at dash striking. no one says it's optimal. but if the criterion is to dash strike with shield, pick zag lol

[river wing]

yes.

[primal hazel]

oh sry lol

i was just wondering why at all

[languid dagger]

why Stygian tho?

[primal hazel]

i sometinmes forget theres stuff like fun

[river wing]

but no? The question was which melee. which i answered serrated point spear or nem sword

[dry ember]

because dude is a mad lad

[opal lodge]

yeah if you like melee just play nemesis lol

[primal hazel]

if you like melee play hades(the game)

[proven osprey]

You know what is the greatest lie ever told ?

https://imgur.com/AQs8BZ8

this one

[dry ember]

if you like melee play fists

[desert arrow]

The tooltip really should show you the increase after debuffs

[dry ember]

F10 maybe?

[river wing]

i mean the question was which melee is best at dash strike

[primal hazel]

you dont want to have to keep picking up stones

[dry ember]

I'm p sure that's a wrong tool tip

[opal lodge]

nemesis

nemesis

[primal hazel]

you drag em into your ice wine and do combo damage

[desert arrow]

RollingStone: don't worry I am one of those weird players who plays for fun

[primal hazel]

i kinda dont like the feel of nemesis

[mossy magnet]

hey is there any list for all builds? would like to try everything out

[desert arrow]

I'm actually not a hardcore type, I just love exploring. but this stupid game sucked me in and made me do runs for story and content

so I put 100 hours into it in like 4 days

[languid dagger]

hmm, so picking them up takes time even if they fall right out of Zagreus, right? And DPS from charging 3+ crystals in a row won't compensate for that?

[desert arrow]

that loop man

[primal hazel]

they dont fall out of zag

jk i know what u mean

[languid dagger]

they don't? Like with Curse of Drowning

[desert arrow]

they fall where the crystal was

where you left them

[cunning urchin]

Guan Yu Serrated Point > Nemesis Double Edge.

[desert arrow]

so if you move you have to go back and pick em uip

[primal hazel]

its dio cast

[desert arrow]

oh ok same thing tho

they come back where the poof was

[primal hazel]

i was just trying to supplement what u said

[dry ember]

but built in crit chance though

[desert arrow]

ya I'm agreeing

but yeah having to pick them up is a decent amount of travel time and attention compared to a regen

which is why having them fly back to you is a Legendary

[primal hazel]

you mean like a buidl sheet?

[desert arrow]

I do wish there was a build calculator to play with

[primal hazel]

thers a beginners build overview pinned in #h1-for-new-players

[proven osprey]

Nice.

[primal hazel]

ye same

[proven osprey]

You've accepted it after all

[primal hazel]

gotta promote nya's effort

[desert arrow]

I know you won't like hearing this but honestly, they've done a really good job not making you need a guide. I would recommend just keep playing and experimenting

I know it's annoying and I understand the urge to look stuff up because nobody wants to make big mistakes or miss out

but I haven't found a game so good at teaching you something new every run so far

[primal hazel]

@mossy magnet if thats not enough 4 you i can dm you mine lol

[river wing]

here's a build idea for you to try out: AP2

[primal hazel]

see the worst of both worlds

[fiery ginkgo]

is there a best place to go for bug reporting?

[desert arrow]

dusa should be a 7th weapon if you max her relationship

[fiery ginkgo]

every time i get a boon swap, it messes up my game

[primal hazel]

F10

[desert arrow]

you could swing her around on a chain

[dry ember]

F10 in game or #h1-tech-support if Switch.

[fiery ginkgo]

thanks!

[cunning urchin]

30 + 30 + 30 = 90 for Guan Yu; (30 + 30) * 1.6 = 96 for Nemesis. But weaving in Guan Yu's Special only when you want to does a lot more than weaving in Nemesis's Special, which you have to in order to keep up the buff.

[dry ember]

Alternatively you can also try validating the game.

[cunning urchin]

And Serrated Point has better AOE than Double Edge.

Also better at going through armor.

[desert arrow]

oh no it's math time hang on

[dry ember]

And you don't account for %boon? Which scales better with crit?

[desert arrow]

is the 1.6 multiplier the crit?

[dry ember]

There is a reason why speedrunners take Double Edge Nem over Serrated GY

[opal lodge]

yeah but double edge nem is gonna be faster than serrated

[dry ember]

because you can stack %damage

[opal lodge]

it's just a matter of finding dedge

which is harder than it should be

[cunning urchin]

I don't need to account for another modifier lol. Crit multiplier is already there.

[desert arrow]

can you briefly explain how you get 1.6 for the crit coefficient

just so I can do this myself

[dry ember]

What? Like a boon less run?

[opal lodge]

0.3 base nem crit chance translates to 0.6 average additional damage

[desert arrow]

ahh

that's simple thank you

[devout ether]

Crit is 3x, crit chance increase is x0.3

[desert arrow]

I remember the 1% crit = 2% dps rule

[devout ether]

Oh you got it

[dry ember]

x3 crit is +x2 damage. so .3*2 = .6

[opal lodge]

with deadly strike it's 1.9? i think?

[dry ember]

.45 * 2 = .9 so yes

[cunning urchin]

No. Not like a boonless run. I've already multiplied the base damage with the crit modifier. For Guan Yu it would be [base damage] * [bonus damage]. For Nemesis it's [base damage] * [crits] * [bonus damage]. Bonus damage modifier would be the same for both, so I don't need to look at that.

The "better scaling" is already reflected in the product of base damage and crit modifier.

[dry ember]

Bonus damage modifier would be the same for both
No because crit scales off additive multiplier

It's Total Mod x Crit

Not Base x Crit + Mod

[cunning urchin]

I wrote base * crit * mod, not "+ mod".

[desert arrow]

sorry before you two get really into it: does Razor Shoals affect base attacks that knockback or is it only Boons

aka will it proc off shield attack

[primal hazel]

everything that has knockback

so from poseidon boons

[desert arrow]

thanks bouldy

[primal hazel]

knockback is a set effect in this case

[dry ember]

ok you misunderstood what I meant by scaling better.

It is true that you get 30x3x(1+mod) for GY and 30x2x1.6x(1+mod) for nem

but you need to subtract to see that one outscales the other as you add more modifier

aka

you get a linear function with non zero coeff

the damage difference will increase

aka Nemesis scales better.

[cunning urchin]

....

[river wing]

That doesn't sound correct

[dry ember]

so I don't need to look at that.
my point is you kinda do need to look to this

[desert arrow]

🍿

[dry ember]

how so?

[frail schooner]

nyaa is right btw

it’s plainly obvious that attack patterns (i.e., your actual sequence of inputs) are also independent of anything else and also multiplicative

[dry ember]

what?

[frail schooner]

so nemesis does (96/90) ~= 7% more on a single double edge hit than GY does on a serrated point

that’s true regardless of what your aphrodite modifier is

but how long does it take to do the nova thing and how much damage does that add, vs. the same for GY

[devout ether]

At least with Nem you're not sacrificing dash length

[frail schooner]

tbh serrated point isn’t too bad on achilles now that they changed the input thing

you basically have an extra long dash that makes up for the short ones

[torpid abyss]

You know, Hades sure is neat

But it feels kinda sad to see Early Access is over...

I know it happened long ago, but it's a really enjoyable game

[dry ember]

ok. seems like I have to explain this the long way.

Nyaa said:

Guan Yu Serrated Point > Nemesis Double Edge.
Then also:
30 + 30 + 30 = 90 for Guan Yu; (30 + 30) * 1.6 = 96 for Nemesis. But weaving in Guan Yu's Special only when you want to does a lot more than weaving in Nemesis's Special, which you have to in order to keep up the buff.
I don't agree with this. Like you said, it's ~7% difference. I doubt the time to Nova (whose buff lasts 3 seconds and you can dash cancel) really hurts 7% of Nem's damage. Not to account to shorten range of Serrated Point.
Then she said:
Bonus damage modifier would be the same for both, so I don't need to look at that.
I already pointed out the math.

[torpid abyss]

This would be easier to see if we got some way to test boons and hammers

[dry ember]

and I use the formula based on her formula, specifically this:

For Guan Yu it would be [base damage] * [bonus damage]. For Nemesis it's [base damage] * [crits] * [bonus damage]. Bonus damage modifier would be the same for both, so I don't need to look at that.

[torpid abyss]

A hack n slash like Hades greatly benefits from sandbox/ training modes

[dry ember]

She does need to look into that because this

But weaving in Guan Yu's Special only when you want to does a lot more than weaving in Nemesis's Special, which you have to in order to keep up the buff.
is unlikely true.

[frail schooner]

well I can’t comment on that

[torpid abyss]

Isn't a crit applied after all modifiers?

[dry ember]

yes

[frail schooner]

Yes

[torpid abyss]

As it multiplies the final value

[dry ember]

yup

[river wing]

That's just one way of looking at it

[torpid abyss]

Ah well, anyhow

[river wing]

You could also say crit changes the base damage

[torpid abyss]

I haven't unlocked Nemesis yet

So i can hardly comment

[proven osprey]

Guan Yu is absolute you god damn heretic

[frail schooner]

@river wing that depends on whether it modifies hoarding slash or not

[opal lodge]

crit is applied before clean kill though

[frail schooner]

since hoarding slash is bonus damage

[river wing]

Nothing affects hoarding afaik

[frail schooner]

So then it’s reasonable to say it affects the base

[river wing]

Which would more closely describe the way nyaa calced the "96" . And why her math is correct.
Damage rotation is a different topic tho. not one i want to comment on.

[dry ember]

if people don't want to comment on it then don't say stuff like

That doesn't sound correct
nyaa is right btw

[still vigil]

even time i use gilga and die at 32 heat my love fer the aspect dies a lil

[frail schooner]

Well, she’s right about the multiplication

[primal hazel]

Well ur gonna really hate the game then

[frail schooner]

As far as testing the actual amount of time it takes to get off attacks

[river wing]

Exactly... Your comment which i replied to inly consist if math.

I was replying to that.

[still vigil]

i still love the game qwq

[frail schooner]

That’s a lot of encounter dependent stuff too

[still vigil]

i just wanna beat it with gilga

[frail schooner]

This seems like a job for that dps mod, get the equivalent boon setup and go to town

[dry ember]

I did ask how so and all I got is silent. And it was Nyaa who put the

Guan Yu Serrated Point > Nemesis Double Edge.
She didn't account for encounter dependent stuff, either. ¯_(ツ)_/¯
Anyhow, I am done if you are done. Just wanted to vent.

[still vigil]

so!

whats a cast you prefer to play with!

i tried crystal beam, and slicing shot

[dry ember]

true shot cause I am lazy

[still vigil]

oh?

[dry ember]

just cast and forget

[still vigil]

oh!

makes sense

[sullen valley]

The Double Nova hammer's second blast can be cancelled if you attack immediately after you Special

That's p uncool

[mossy magnet]

well i just played the game for one week straight and i think i kinda know cool stuff just wanted to maybe have a list and see if i missed some builds or anything but thats fine i mean so i can search on my own in agem and try stuff out 😄

[exotic robin]

So what is an ideal demetre fist build?

[primal hazel]

Merciful end always works on fists

So ares attack, athena special, merciful end, athena dash

[dry ember]

if ideal means involving a bit of high roll, Merc End. if ideal means consistent, takes Lightning Strike Deadly Flourish

[primal hazel]

Or

Aphrodite attack with legendary, artemis crit special, heart rend|

Then either zeus aid with smoldering air or dio aid with splitting headache

[exotic robin]

What hammers for the merciful end build?

Rush kick looks like it makes sense

[dry ember]

Long Knuckle Breaching Cross

Rusk Kick is a bit gimmicky. You are better off just dashing. Your damage mostly come from tagging enemies with an attack and dash anyway.

[primal hazel]

Why long knuckles? Don't you want to be close?

I'd just say rolling knuckle then?!

[dry ember]

well not that close

Long Knuckle also means larger AOE

[sullen valley]

(Talos) Poseidon Special or Razor Shoals?

[primal hazel]

Eternal chamber was trash right?

[prime plover]

I dieeed to a gliiiitch

I F10'd it but still aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

[sullen valley]

rip

[turbid needle]

what kinda glitch

[prime plover]

I used the spear spin from behind cover, and somehow the Hades laser hit me there

[sullen valley]

rip

Wait I already said that, oof

[prime plover]

DSFGS

predictable

[primal hazel]

That's just hades

[sullen valley]

No seriously Poseidon Special or Razor Shoals if using Talos?

[prime plover]

but i was behind cover and all i wanted to do was apply the Aspect of Hades debuff to him aaah

[primal hazel]

If he's very close to the pillars in 360 degrees laser phase his lasers can clip the pillars at certain angles

[prime plover]

I see

that's..... unfair

sorta

[primal hazel]

I think they should change that yeah

It's as jank as asterius dash

[sullen valley]

Just uh, find cover, and if you aren't taking damage in your place, don't try anything except standing still.

[primal hazel]

Just hide behind the other pillar, stand in hades if you don't have em4 on or find stand in the middle of the opposite side of the pillar where the lasers eminate from

They usually clip the sides

[prime plover]

i also got a curse of chaos that forced me to beat Theseus and Minotaur with only an unbooned Special and the Demeter/Aphrodite duo boon
somehow i won tho

[torpid abyss]

You know what Hades could use?

[prime plover]

by the way that boon is straight trash, i thought it would be way better

[torpid abyss]

A rival character

[primal hazel]

Both ig
If you really wanna use pos

[primal hazel]

Zeus

[turbid needle]

hades or hades

[torpid abyss]

Not that sort

[primal hazel]

What boon?

[torpid abyss]

What i mean is, an counterpart to Zagreus

[prime plover]

It would have to be Prometheus if you wanted to smoothly incorporate a new boss

[sullen valley]

Yeah sure I'll just take both boons at once, I can do that.

[torpid abyss]

Someone who's on an equal ground as him

[sullen valley]

Might as well take the third one

[prime plover]

the one that makes Demeter's cast aim at you

[primal hazel]

Dark Zagreus

[prime plover]

:(

[sullen valley]

oof

[primal hazel]

Yeah that one is iffy

[torpid abyss]

Uhm

What word was that even

Was it...

[primal hazel]

Maybe only om with fists and very thoughtful positioning

[prime plover]

i said effin hilarious

[torpid abyss]

The S word?

[prime plover]

hilariously bad

[primal hazel]

Snakes?

[torpid abyss]

Not as bad as the S word imo

[prime plover]

Snakes is my favorite S word

[torpid abyss]

No, snakes are cool

[primal hazel]

Slytherin?

[torpid abyss]

The S word i mean is NOT cool

[prime plover]

actually thats a lie i like Aspect of Arthur, that's my favorite S word

[turbid needle]

simp

[torpid abyss]

It's not a harry potter thing either

[turbid needle]

simps are not cool

[primal hazel]

Indeed

[torpid abyss]

But simp is not censored

[prime plover]

Prometheus is just super Skelly

[torpid abyss]

Anyway

I mean, a rival for zagreus

Someone who essentially fights like himself, but different

[turbid needle]

you did not...

[primal hazel]

As I said: Dark Zagreus

Darkgreus

[torpid abyss]

Even going as far as fighting with his same type of weapon

You bring a sword? This guy has a sword too

Same for spear and shield and stuff

[primal hazel]

Just copying the entire build

[torpid abyss]

Not boons or stuff

[sullen valley]

Nah he just uses all the weapons

But the one you use he'll use the most

[torpid abyss]

Rather, a boss that has a different moveset based on the weapon you bring

That'd be pretty fun

[sullen valley]

P cool idea
Brings difficulties to your weapon type, but opening up different weaknesses

Hard to learn, though...would probably be a non-main boss that you'd have to intentionally fight.

[torpid abyss]

Yeah, that's usually how good rivals are implemented

How about Heracles

[sullen valley]

uh

[primal hazel]

How about dark Zagreus?

[sullen valley]

Pft

Chaos Zag

Blood Zagreus vs Dark Zagreus

who would win

[torpid abyss]

Well it'd be fun lol

But i do wanna see a rival type of character

I always love the chemistry between two characters who are two sides of the same coin

[sullen valley]

Hm...what if instead of a boss, it'd just be a unique Chaos debuff for Heroic or Legendary boons?

[torpid abyss]

Huh

[sullen valley]

Sometimes, in any room, you will be attacked by an incarnation of Darkness that mirrors your weapon.

Expires after attacking in a set number of rooms.

[torpid abyss]

It's just not the same, really

[sullen valley]

Any room, including Charon Shops, Stairways, or Bosses.

Aw

[primal hazel]

Ooh like a character that hunts you down

[torpid abyss]

The main charm of a rival character is that they are a character

A pursuer that chases you is fun and all

Just not the thing i had in mind

[proven osprey]

I would fight a GY mirror, he would get one shot

[desert arrow]

Thesus is already kind of this

at least with his spear

[torpid abyss]

Nah Theseus is... not quite so

He has both a spear and a shield

[sullen valley]

That'd be really funny

[desert arrow]

also the exalted

in general

[torpid abyss]

At its core, a good rival is at equal grounds, meaning that whatever the player can do, they'd be capable of doing so as well

I'm glad we don't have exalteds with guns tho

[desert arrow]

I'm just saying this is what's already closest currently in game.

I saw that youtube video too.

[torpid abyss]

What video

[desert arrow]

the one about rivals and vergil making the rounds right now

[torpid abyss]

What about vergil

[desert arrow]

it just uses him as an example of a good player-rival, though in his case he has a very different moveset

what you're talking about is more of a Jeanne

the question is where would it go ingame, it's not a bad idea

have they ever talked about alternate biomes like BoI did?

[torpid abyss]

Well, it's difficult

[sullen valley]

...Oh, Transistor

I need to play that sometime

After Bastion

[torpid abyss]

Since Hades is at its core a rogue like game

They cannot simply change the pool of variables

There's a very delicate balance which is already as fair as RNG can be

I know cuz i studied a lot of these elements before...

I'm looking to work as a game designer, some day

[dry ember]

Hades is less RNG dependent than most other roguelites, too

[primal hazel]

Looking to work as a game designer and having studied game design are two different fields of knowledge

[torpid abyss]

Depends on the way you look at it

[dry ember]

Is there even a degree on game desgin?

Most of the stories I have read is that it's coders who have a good idea, rather than the opposite.

[torpid abyss]

There is a degree in game design

And about that... That's from way before

Videogames are arguably a very new field

[primal hazel]

It doesn't
Otherwise having studied it wouldn't be a requirement for most

Obviously having spent a lot of time and having interest gives you more knowledge about that than the average person

Not gonna deny that

[torpid abyss]

Anyone can design a game, but designing a good game is pretty complex

Since it's not a hard science you can just do it over and over, learning and such

[primal hazel]

Anyone can defend themselves in front of a court

But it takes someone having spent time learning it professionally to do it properly

[cunning urchin]

I am the court. 👸🏽

[torpid abyss]

I mean, that's pretty much what i said

[primal hazel]

Well I didn't talk about you did i xD

[torpid abyss]

Point is, that's just what i wanna do

And i'm putting effort to get there

[cunning urchin]

Why would you not talk about me? What's more important to talk about than me?

[turbid needle]

That's pretty cool

[torpid abyss]

I'm going to college not to just get a degree, it gives me a reliable way to get experience and learning

You think college is just "here, have a paper"?

[turbid needle]

for most, yes

[primal hazel]

Thanks for explaining college to me
Still have problems with that after 5 semesters

[torpid abyss]

Yeah, don't worry

[proven osprey]

Well I did not start this fire, good luck people

[torpid abyss]

College takes time to get used to

[dry ember]

You pay for college for the connection, not just the knowledge though.

[torpid abyss]

I dropped out of the first major i had

Also i don't pay for college

Tfw public education 😎

[primal hazel]

I was being sarcastic

Depends on the country and the quality of the college

[dry ember]

tfw Murica college

[primal hazel]

/reputation

[torpid abyss]

Yeah, i'm in argentina

[primal hazel]

Yeah colleges in america are just gruesome lol

[dry ember]

I didn't pay either, but in general, rip

[torpid abyss]

Tsk tsk

This is a christian server

[turbid needle]

i forgot we were a christian server

[primal hazel]

Even in germany I still have to pay a small semester fee :/

[torpid abyss]

Jinx!

You owe me a coke

[primal hazel]

Chthonian

[proven osprey]

Sure thing

[turbid needle]

the snorting kind?

[dry ember]

we have so many Germans playing the game

it's interesting.

[primal hazel]

I'm 80% of em

[dry ember]

lul

[primal hazel]

Spam be the greatest power

[torpid abyss]

Well, point be

College is cool

I'm learning to make games n all

But it's going slow due to quarantine...

[turbid needle]

Online? Cause same

[primal hazel]

Shouldn't there be even more time

Then

[dry ember]

No. Because the extra time is used to play Hades

duh

[torpid abyss]

Nah like

It's slow because

I only have 1 class a day

Instead of like 2 or 3

[primal hazel]

I have 4 classes in 2 days for the entire week

[dry ember]

college?

or grad school

[torpid abyss]

Speaking of, i have above average grades so far

[turbid needle]

I have 0 classes the entire week

where's my prize

[torpid abyss]

I got finals soon

[dry ember]

that's literally every student right now

[primal hazel]

Oof best of luck

[torpid abyss]

If i do well, i'm gonna be free till next month

[primal hazel]

What are you gonna turn in? Pong 2: Electric Boogaloo?

[dry ember]

your prize is working 8 hours a day

[torpid abyss]

Uh, no

We don't make games yet

We learn the fundamentals of proper organization and planning, as well as how to develop and explain our ideas in a team

[sullen valley]

What's your guys' preference for Styx, out of Flower or Sigil? (EM4)

[torpid abyss]

As well as developing assets for games

[primal hazel]

Imagine studying games design
Being on your finals
And not doing games yet

[primal hazel]

Acorn duh

[torpid abyss]

Imagine thinking making games is only about making games

[sullen valley]

You can't just pick Bunger if I ask Kwookie or Chippy

[primal hazel]

Imagine not getting sarcasm

[torpid abyss]

Imagine dragons

[sullen valley]

Imagine dragons

[primal hazel]

Now that's just vile

[sullen valley]

woooooooooh ah

[turbid needle]

Kwookie

definitely

[sullen valley]

Guess I'm keeping the flower then

[primal hazel]

Acorn

[sullen valley]

Would pick Kwookie in any sitch anywho

[cunning urchin]

#off-topic-discussion

[sullen valley]

Dude I've got like 3 Athena Deflects I think I'm good without Acorn

[turbid needle]

For real though I wouldn't take mom blossom in that situation, although I've only tried EM4 once so idk not an expert

[primal hazel]

Acorn

[sullen valley]

Hrmph.

[opal lodge]

mom blossom is not a good keepsake lol

[sullen valley]

But Lotus, how many chambers do you go through in the Styx?

[torpid abyss]

Real chads use only pom blossom

[sullen valley]

I'm just gonna stop you right there

[primal hazel]

Acorn

[turbid needle]

A corn?

[torpid abyss]

Corn

[sullen valley]

corn

[turbid needle]

🌽

[torpid abyss]

Jinx

[primal hazel]

Several actually

[proven osprey]

Stone you ok?

[cunning urchin]

I've seen Lucky Tooth picked a lot more recently for EM4 high heat.

[torpid abyss]

You owe me $200 worth of Steam games

[primal hazel]

I'm a-corn-okay

[torpid abyss]

It is the law of jinx

[primal hazel]

He's not allowed to write anymore

[proven osprey]

Get some sleep buddy

[primal hazel]

That's the law of jinx

[sullen valley]

Hm...tbh, the Sigil and Pom have both been very useful as opposed to Lucky Tooth, for me. All very viable, however...

[torpid abyss]

It's simple

[primal hazel]

Acorn is more useful

[torpid abyss]

Get poseidon sword

[sullen valley]

I think Sigil would be the correct answer...but, Pom Power feels p cool.

[torpid abyss]

Pick a neat strong cast boon

Get no other boons

Pom blossom will make the cast boon op

Profit

[sullen valley]

Pfheh

[torpid abyss]

You can applaud my brain later

[sullen valley]

Hm...You know what? Since the Styx has a bunch of Poms already, and I've already got some strong Ability Boons thanks to the Pom, just gonna go with the Sigil

I'm using a Fists build anyway, so Gauge acquirement won't be an issue.

[proven osprey]

Pom is fun

Analysis done.

[primal hazel]

Hmm yes a most profound analysis

I'd say flower then

[sullen valley]

Huh! Didn't know that Rupture includes any kind of movement. Thought it was just normal walking.

Nah, you can deal Rupture damage with Talos alone

[proven osprey]

Thanks

[sullen valley]

Poor rat's entire digestive system was just obol

[calm bluff]

...tfw you get the 1.2% tick from feather after fighting hades

kek

[sullen valley]

Bruh

[royal helm]

I like it 😢

[opal lodge]

its okay to like things that arent good

[stark spoke]

don’t know if this is the right place to ask this but does anyone have any advice on beating theseus and the minotaur

[opal lodge]

focus mino first then work on theseus

try to get used to theseus's spear throw timing

he cant hit you if you run perpendicular to the line of travel btw

[stark spoke]

thank you!

[hollow schooner]

Which boons for stygius nemesis aspect?

[undone anvil]

Artemis attack goes well with it

I like Ares on the special usually

[hollow schooner]

So artemis primary and ares special

I’ll try it out thanks

[undone anvil]

hope it goes well for you lol

that's just my personal preference

[stark spoke]

also what are the best keepsakes

[undone anvil]

keepsakes are heavily dependent on what you're doing in that run, I usually start with a god keepsake, switch out to a different god for Asphodel, then another one for Elysium, then usually Broken Spearpoint or Evergreen Acorn for Styx

[stark spoke]

thanks

[undone anvil]

you'll still wanna try them all out to see what fits your playstyle best (and to level them up for the achievement if you're going for it)

[opal lodge]

or try aphro special so you can get the artemis/aphro duo boon

[clever laurel]

What do you guys think the best build for bow is (any aspect but state what aspect the build is for)

[undone anvil]

Chiron with Dio special is pretty good

[dry ember]

Zag Bow + Triple Shot/Twin Shot + Perfect Shot/Point Blank Shot + Hunter Dash + Deadly Strike

[opal lodge]

im a simple man

i like rama with arty attack

or crush shot hera

both big number builds

[undone anvil]

Dio special + Aphro attack for the duo

[clever laurel]

Makes sense to me

Thank you

this shall be fun run

[royal helm]

Can you lightning phalanx hera's stuff?

[opal lodge]

yes LP hera bad

[primal hazel]

LP hera go not brr

It go slow

[wooden gyro]

guys i have sea storm duo and i found a second duo vengefull mood i take this or epic static discharge?

[primal hazel]

Static discharge imo

[wooden gyro]

u can pick second duo right?

maybe is a sad question but now im learning

[primal hazel]

You can

But vengeful isn't that good imo

No sad questions m8

[wooden gyro]

okk so i will go for static

ty ty

[primal hazel]

Best of luck

You can take mood for the prophecy ofc

[frail schooner]

there is at least one sad question

“What does the ambiguity bonus do?”

[rare kindle]

I got sweet nectar and sea storm on my chiron bow build

[primal hazel]

Everything

[rare kindle]

I could potentially get smouldering air so hopefully I get poseidon call

[wooden gyro]

btw how u unlock the next aspects i mean the first ''aspect of zagreus'' is open and maxed

the second etc?

[rare kindle]

just spend titan blod

[undone anvil]

just spend blood

[dry ember]

you should be able to unlock them already

[rare kindle]

the hidden aspects are more involved

[dry ember]

inb4 they didn't realize that they can put blood in other aspects xD

poor guy probably spent 5x on Zag Sword

[rare kindle]

this isn't even with any god keepsakes, i'm levelling up distant memory

[primal hazel]

Well at least Schelemeus is happy

[primal hazel]

Now I'm kinda happy I don't get achievements on switch lol l

[rare kindle]

yeah, some keepsakes are clearly more optimal than others for playing

[primal hazel]

Which kinda makes me sad

Half of the keepsakes are eh

[undone anvil]

I don't find that keepsakes are run-deciders ultimately

sure some are more helpful but you can just use whichever just for the laughs

like when Chaos asks you to beat Hades using their egg just because it would be amusing

[primal hazel]

Keepsakes are key for build/run consistency in hades

[rare kindle]

why can't you unequip keepsakes altogether?

the ultimate starter run, no keepsakes, no boons, no mirror

[undone anvil]

well you can disable the mirror

and you could just pick a keepsake you don't get to use

like pick the egg and just don't visit Chaos

[wooden gyro]

thats what exactly i have done sadge

[primal hazel]

Who doesn't visit chaos

[undone anvil]

I'm sayin, if you want "the ultimate starter run" you wouldn't visit them anyway

[rare kindle]

like, do your best to imitate a fresh file on an older file

[weak violet]

Yo, anybody know the best boons for cast builds? Im working on the poseidon aspect for the stygius rn

[rare kindle]

or I guess you could just create a new file

artemis cast is very good imo

[turbid needle]

Best build I had was an artemis based one w/ her legendary

[rare kindle]

ares cast both doesn't lodge and needs duo to really work

[weak violet]

Hm, ive been mainly using either the zeus or aphrodite boons tbh

[primal hazel]

Poseidon Build: Athena or aphrodite cast, parting shot duo, exit wounds artemis|Parting shot (Aphro, athena), exit wounds, electric shot|Flood shot, exit wounds, sea storm

[turbid needle]

mirage shot, heart rend, and parting shot are good duos for a cast build

[primal hazel]

Obvs artemis legendary, chaos boons and hermes legendary

[weak violet]

Noice

[primal hazel]

Heart rend isn't in general a good duo for a cast build

[turbid needle]

oh woops sorry

[primal hazel]

Unless you're running artemis cast maybe

[turbid needle]

ye ye I was focusing on if you use her cast

[opal lodge]

it isn't usually good but you dont hate to see it on beowulf

since usually you're running artemis attack

[turbid needle]

it could work if you put weak on poseidon sword special maybe? I'm not sure

i haven't done a build w/ it

[primal hazel]

We're taking poseidon rn

[primal hazel]

Oh also exit wounds from artemis Is key

[turbid needle]

just a suggestion i know

[primal hazel]

Bomb status

[weak violet]

Ah ok, are the mirror of night skills also needed for the cast build or are they just my choice?

[primal hazel]

On most cast builds you want infernal soul
On dio cast builds you want stygian soul

[weak violet]

Hm, also isnt their an artemis goon where it deals damage when the casts are dislodged?

[turbid needle]

exit wounds

[weak violet]

Oh ok yeah

[primal hazel]

That's what I said lol

[weak violet]

Yeah well i didnt know what exit wounds was until now

[primal hazel]

The more you know xD

Sry I just assume people know in this channel xD

[weak violet]

Lol

[turbid needle]

imo some other good boons for it (at least if you do use artemis' cast) could be clean kill, hunters mark, pressure points maybe?? (i'm genuinely not sure how good this boon is)

[primal hazel]

*boons

Pressure points is basically like a 6% dps increase or something
Have to dig up the number lol

[weak violet]

Huh, i always thought the zeus cast was good because of the ricochet but it is quite annoying on regrabing the casts

[primal hazel]

Hunters mark and clean kill are good boons for any crit builds

[rare kindle]

I think zeus cast doesn't do as good against bosses

[turbid needle]

zeus cast feels,,, eh?

yea

its meant for when you've got multiple enemies

[primal hazel]

Yes pp is a 6% dps increase

[turbid needle]

thank u

[primal hazel]

There are better options

Zeus cast seems middle of the road imo

[primal hazel]

Jesus I h8 myself everytime I say that

[turbid needle]

also about to play so two questions:
good builds to get the thanatos achievement
good builds for guan yu

[primal hazel]

I'll drop by builds sec

[turbid needle]

ok

[primal hazel]

Guan Yu special build artemis flourish, charged skewer, aphro duo, breaching skewer, heart rend|serrated point, hunter dash, artemis attack, aphrodite flourish heart rend

| means different build

Also zeus aid with smoldering air and billowing strength is a good additional option to those

Alternatively you can take splitting headache with dio call

[turbid needle]

ok, focus aphro-artemis got it

[primal hazel]

For thanatos ig classic splash dash eris

[proven osprey]

for GY

[turbid needle]

ohhhh i forgot about eris, that's a good idea, i kept trying to use bow yesterday

[proven osprey]

don't get Serrated Edge and Charged skewer at the same time

Make your choice

[primal hazel]

Why do you call it serrated edge

That's why I set it up as different builds yugi boi

[proven osprey]

because me dumb

POINT

I only think "serrated'

[primal hazel]

You said word wrong

Rock angry

[proven osprey]

I need serrated, I need charged

my mind be quick boyo

[primal hazel]

Your fingers seem to be quicker

[proven osprey]

hahaha

very true

[wooden gyro]

so spending x5 for aspect of zagreus was the biggest bait

i have no titans now

kekw

thought max the first u can unlock the others

[rare kindle]

it's not completely useless

you can still get more titan blood through broker or bounties

[wooden gyro]

okk so get titans from playing with all weapons all floors etc?

[rare kindle]

also some prophecies

[wooden gyro]

and with the trade shop at hades house

[weak violet]

But man how do you even get the companions

[rare kindle]

the one for beating the secret boss two times in a row consecutively, for beating all minibosses (I think?), and winning the game using everything from both mirror sides

you need to become closer to some characters

for the companions

[weak violet]

Hm, ive seen some companions being used for like Meg or Sisyphus but ok

[rare kindle]

also the one for beating the game under all conditions (but not necessarily at the same time) of the pact of punishment

yeah, meg and sisyphus are two of them

one they let you gift them ambrosia, you'll get them

[wicked spire]

Hullo! I’m trying to beat Hades with the Spear, and I was wondering what builds could be help get me to beat him... the farthest I got with the spear was in Hades 2nd phase

[wooden gyro]

i just arrived to beat hades full build without god call and 30hp no defiances feelsbad

[languid dagger]

for the third time I feel like Hermes' attack speed isn't doing much for Arthur for some reason

[weak violet]

Hm, whats a good build for the Eris aspect rn?

[languid dagger]

start with zeus keepsake and get it on attack and try to get hammers for special like cluster/rocket/tripple/targeting (and some % boon for special and preferably chaos for %special damage)

[weak violet]

Alrighty

[turbid needle]

@primal hazel finally got Thorn of Thanatos w/ Eris-- thank you for advice!

[royal helm]

10% isn't really noticeable... if it's a common boon. But 20, 30 and 40% are pretty significant

If you're dash striking, it won't change that attack speed, to my knowledge

So it's only the attack speed of your 3 strike combo

[turbid needle]

what do I do with spear I feel like it does no damage

I lost to dad on 0 heat with it yesterday and felt immense gamer pain

[opal lodge]

hope for flurry jab

or serrated point

which aspect?

[turbid needle]

zag lol

[devout ether]

Zag spear is pretty awful

Achilles is much, MUCH better

[opal lodge]

yeah hope for flurry jab

[turbid needle]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/364243718477185035/782403852121014322/unknown.png

[opal lodge]

artemis/zeus attack with flurry jab goes brrr

[turbid needle]

died like 2 frames later with a very long sigh

didn't help that it was a 5 sack 💀

I just wanted to be an Olympic spear thrower maaaan

will look into achilles spear tho

[exotic robin]

Whats the railgun build that speedrunners use?

[devout ether]

Eris

[opal lodge]

zeus attack poseidon dash

[devout ether]

Oh build

[opal lodge]

hope for artemis special but dont force it

good boons: breaking wave, static discharge, wave pounding, sea storm, storm lightning, splitting bolt

billowing strength

[exotic robin]

Nice, ty. What hammers should i be prioritizing?

[opal lodge]

cluster bomb

rockets

targeting system is ok

same with triple bomb

delta is also ok

[exotic robin]

Wait what. So the focus is on special but the special equipped isnt crazy important?

[frail schooner]

the damage boost comes from the special but it applies to everything

[spark meteor]

yeah the 75% dmg boost (from max eris) is global

[exotic robin]

So the main damage source is still normal attack?

[spark meteor]

yep especially with zeus attack

it just rips thru rooms

but if u get cluster bombs + rocket launcher thats also like insane damage

[exotic robin]

Are those for special? Are there any hammers to make attack better?

[spark meteor]

yep those hammers are for spec

for attack, best one is delta chamber

makes it so u have infinite ammo

[exotic robin]

Ah ok. Thats really nice

And do cast/call matter much?

Or just whatever pops up

[spark meteor]

not really; yeah whatever pops up

but when i do zeus eris runs

it's always a sweet bonus to get aphrodite aid and go for the zeus/aphro duo

[devout ether]

Bear in mind that Zeus attack really falls off in the late game, so you really need to supplement your damage with special, dash, and good boons

Jolted, etc

[spark meteor]

^^^

[devout ether]

Sea Storm is a premium boon here for a reason

[spark meteor]

i always prioritize getting Static Discharge (jolted boon)

it's just pure damage

[royal helm]

tbh, because it basically doesn't do damage... the base damages on the spear are atrocious, especially based on their speed

[spark meteor]

plus it helps out w privileged

[devout ether]

Speedrunners go with FF

[spark meteor]

should try FF yeah

havent used it as much

[turbid needle]

dash attack: 20 damage 👁 👄 👁

[opal lodge]

sea storm isnt that important tbh

i'd take breaking wave over sea storm

[languid dagger]

had 30% rare boon both times and I am not dash-attacking with Arthur

[opal lodge]

it's good if you get it in tartarus or asphodel

otherwise breaking wave will just do more for you

[opal lodge]

for cast you mostly just fill it so you have increased chance to get sea storm/zeus legendary

[royal helm]

Weird...

[opal lodge]

you dont take a call so you can take hades keepsake into elysium/styx

although that's gonna be nerfed soon

[royal helm]

I feel like I've gotten a Heroic attack speed boon on Arthur in one run and it was pretty nuts

[primal hazel]

Awesome to hear! Slowly inching towards that 100%

[royal helm]

So I think it works?

[exotic robin]

@opal lodge oh i dont think i have the hades keepsake yet. How do i grab that?

[opal lodge]

ah. keep doing story and it'll unlock

[weak violet]

Welp, i just got the aspect of Arthur, now i just need a build for it

Also, question, how do you get the very last keepsake in which i believe is hade’s?

[devout ether]

After the credits, gotta keep talking to him

[river wing]

just build for alphro or artemis atk on arthur

[languid dagger]

I have tried Aphro and Artemis and Athena and I feel like Athena with Deadly Reversal is the best overall

[river wing]

tbh any of the 4 % boons work pretty well

there are 5 % boons. i just ignored Poseidon 🤔

[primal hazel]

Artemis attack
Double edge
Ez

[primal hazel]

Heart rend with artemis attack is def better imo

[river wing]

i find artemis attack to be the strongest.

Even without heart rend

But I wouldn't cry over getting any of the other 3.

Second most prefered is aphro though

[primal hazel]

Well technically speaking deadly reversal "only" gives you increased crit chance for a short amount of time and only on deflect

Heart rend gives like + 150% crit or some

Also double edge and hunter dash give a nifty damage bonus imo
Although idk if just shadow slash would give you more dps with normal attacks

[exotic robin]

Wait, so, can i not get the hades keepsake if i gave him a nectar early game?

[river wing]

you need to give 2 to get it

[exotic robin]

Ahh ok

[languid dagger]

I have tried doing heart rend but applying weak is a bit iffy on Arthur

with Athena on AA I just hold mouse one for those sweeping strikes

[river wing]

just put it on your special

or dash. but there are usually better dashes

[languid dagger]

with arthur tho

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/725021639506526249/782771805474783262/unknown.png

[devout ether]

For Arthur, Aphro on special and Artemis on attack works great

[languid dagger]

here is chonky damage with Athena attack and deadly reversal

[river wing]

I mean. heart rend does way bigger numbers. so idk what the point of pic is.

[languid dagger]

really?

[river wing]

special on arthur is so good

[languid dagger]

damn

[languid dagger]

personally I found it to be a dangerous to use as an attack in crowded room because I was getting interrupted often

[river wing]

special first. then dash.

you get iframe from dash. And special at will land at the end of your dash

you can even dash twice

[sonic mural]

heart rend on arthur => 5-6k on attack

[languid dagger]

dash attack or dash?

[languid dagger]

sick

[river wing]

just a normal dash.

[royal helm]

Eh... I'm not sold on Aphro being that good on Arthur's special... since you almost want to have extended weak duration before it becomes really solid with Heart Rend

But Arthur just kind of doesn't care about duos / build

I also highly doubt you're getting to 5-6k with Heart Rend...
The slash is 200 base, even with shadow slash that's 600, crit 1800... crit 2600 with Heart Rend?

[static karma]

Aphrodite provides the most % damage bonus

[royal helm]

Takes a lot to start pushing that high

[static karma]

Not sure if Artemis does more damage on average or not with crits

[royal helm]

On average it's 15% * +200% (or averages to about 30%)

But there's way more upsides in terms of multiplying all +percent scalars

(Chaos, Hydraulic Might, etc...)

[lime lynx]

What's a noob build for Aspect of Rama?

[static karma]

I'm a noob myself but dionysus special has worked for me

[languid dagger]

for Arthur and Heart Rend you won't be attacking with Aphro boon that much

[royal helm]

Deadly Strike + daedelus hammers (trip/twin shot, pointblank shot, explosive shot)

[static karma]

what attack boon would you prefer for Arthur

[royal helm]

Deadly Strike probably

Artemis

[lime lynx]

Was that for my question btw?

[languid dagger]

as I said, I have tried them all and liked Athena the most

[lime lynx]

Deadly strike, hammers.

[static karma]

It seems like you don't attack often enough to activate crits that much?

[frail fox]

Best attack for rama?

[river wing]

with shadow slash and heart rend, you'll need around +160% more to reach 5k
doesn't sound too far with 2 chaos gate 😐 or like with jerky

[royal helm]

Athena could almost get you to an equivalent in Deadly Strike once you have deadly reversal

[static karma]

I thought crit stuff was better with faster weapons?

[languid dagger]

less interruptions, easy synergy with Deadly Reversal, you can just spam attack without dashing

[static karma]

you aren't guaranteed to get a damage modifier to make it better than Aprhodite

Athena has nice deflect

[river wing]

you'll want to dash anyways. dash behind enemies to get backstab bonus

[static karma]

I suppose deflect helps more than damage for Arthur since Arthur's attack damage is high

[royal helm]

Yeah, Athena isn't a bad or unreasonable primary attack on Arthur

[static karma]

I use Athena on spear attack

[lime lynx]

Yea anything for Rama, I am just going to play it for the first time and I assumed I'd take like Aphrodite for attack and divine dash as it's friendly if you position poorly sometimes.

[static karma]

I'm the worst with spear out of all the weapons so having deflect on attack (I use Hades aspect for spin radius too) helps me

[sonic mural]

artemis on attack, aphro on special

[lime lynx]

ok ty!

[royal helm]

Not necessarily, since you're getting a chonkier base hit

[sonic mural]

divine dash if u dont feel confident dodging stuff, splash dash otherwise

[static karma]

Splash dash makes quick work of Styx

[sonic mural]

hammers r triple, twin, perfect, point blank

[static karma]

but divine dash is my most commonly taken boon according to my take list

[river wing]

explosive

[royal helm]

It's like, Zag sword does like 15 on one of the attacks? critting to 45 is pretty minimal.
Attacking fast smooths out the odds that you actually proc a crit. (which in turns procs Hunter's Mark)

[static karma]

too bad we can't reroll hammers

so we can't really plan builds around hammers until after we get them

[royal helm]

However, Arthur's final swing is 200. It goes from 200->600 just from critting, not even considering deadly strikes' % modifier

[sonic mural]

plus the fact that most builds rely on like a sole hammer

[royal helm]

If it's 20% (I forget raw +% on Deadly) 200->240->720(on crit)

[river wing]

the speed of hitting doesn't really affect how good crit is.
it's just the base dps.

[static karma]

It's +20% at common level 1 so it's not great if it doesn't crit

and crit chance is 15%

[royal helm]

Yeah... Eris has the fastest attack rate in the game (presumably) which is why Lightning Strikes base damage is so important on it

[river wing]

arthur simply have much higher base dps compared to something like fist or eris. Stand infront of skelly and hold leftclick and see how long it takes to die

the game is balanced this way where faster stuff tend to have less base dps

[royal helm]

Yeah... and there's only one "Strike" that gives a +flat modifier per hit... (Lightning Strike)

[primal hazel]

Eh not necessarily harder then on other weps

[sonic mural]

doom maybe

[static karma]

Arthur and Poseidon are my favorite aspects for sword

[royal helm]

Drunken Strike and Curse are +flat modifiers, but ... it's irrelevant how many times you hit after 5 or 1 per 1.1 second

Until you get Impending Doom

[sonic mural]

too bad lightning strike/seastorm doesnt work anymore on chiron

[river wing]

hasn't stop me from using it :B

it's funny when you see one wall slam damage number pop out for each arrow of chiron special

but that's rare

it's like super soaker but worse

[languid dagger]

I still don't get how 5-6k hits were achieved on Arthur tho

[sonic mural]

i can take a screenshot next time i play

[languid dagger]

does anyone have a video or screenshot of that?

tag me, please

[sonic mural]

ik theres a 7k screenshot but forgot where

[royal helm]

200 base, take the 4.5 multiplier and then you use a variable
So 200x * 4.5 = 6k, solve for x

lulz

[languid dagger]

because I critted for 2,5k with 70% chaos attack boon and it was a sweeping attack with backstabking hammer

[sonic mural]

#h1-builds-and-combat message

here we go

[royal helm]

Heart rend pushes that up quite a bit by itself

[sonic mural]

@languid dagger

[languid dagger]

that's illegal!

[opal lodge]

gotta love hitting a 10hp rat for 8.4k damage

[royal helm]

So, I get X = 6.67 (I think this means you need 667% to hit exactly 6k)?

Cursed Slash is 200%. the athena expose, blah blah

[river wing]

200*4.5*(1+0.5+2+0.5+0.2) = 3780
shadow slash, boiling blood, shadow presence, fam favourite

actually 5.67. cause it's +xxx%
where it's adding to a pre-existing 100%

[sonic mural]

r u factoring poms and boon rarity in?

[royal helm]

Mmk, fair point

[royal helm]

You just need to get to a 567 or 667% threshhold of +% damage and have heart rend to hit that 6k

I think that's a pretty high bar to set, though...

So boon rarity only increases the +% by some margin (usually tens of percentages)

[river wing]

Thats a really good rng run.

[sonic mural]

poms usually close to double things tho

i only hit a 6k run once, but 5k is the average

[royal helm]

Yea, you'd have to have quite good RNG to be doing 6k Heart Rend Arthur crits... to say the least

[river wing]

Cant rmb who brought up 5-6k but the point was "heart rend good". Which is pretty sound.

[royal helm]

Eh... I think it takes a bunch of boons... it is good, obviously. But I just wouldn't bank on it especially if you're playing high heat with underworld custom

Since you want the +second weak duration on your Flourish (probably)

Since the weak only lasts 3 seconds

[sonic mural]

the original argument was if its better than athena attack

[royal helm]

Oh, yeah... it's a bit incommensurable .. because you're trading a utility that isn't pure damage for pure damage

(Deflect and ease of play)

[opal lodge]

well if we're talking arthur

just play however you want to

because the "optimal" way to play arthur is disgusting

[rare kindle]

arthur even gives you extra hp to make up for the slowness

[opal lodge]

arthur can go fast

the question is whether it should

[cosmic hornet]

what's the "optimal" arthur?

i imagine its heartrend?

[opal lodge]

no

artemis attack and dash

[cosmic hornet]

please don't say revenge

oh

[opal lodge]

dash strike x 2000

[cosmic hornet]

wait what

isn't arthur's dash strike the stab

[opal lodge]

yes

[royal helm]

Yeah, there's an argument to make that the 2x dash strike hammer pushes optimal DPS...

Rather than the 3-strike combo...

[opal lodge]

dash strikes is still faster than swinging

[cosmic hornet]

how can i forget this information

[opal lodge]

critting an unarmored witch for 500 in tartarus doesnt mean much if a dash strike does the same thing

[sonic mural]

then ur basically turning it into a slower nemesis sword

[royal helm]

pretty much

[river wing]

Has anyone done a deadly reversal vs heart rend graph?

[opal lodge]

yes

that is how it goes

[royal helm]

A lot of the damage can be overkill as well... so you're just overdamaging stuff 🤷‍♂️

[opal lodge]

it is a larger nemesis

does that make you sad?

it should

[rare kindle]

but big numbers go brr

[opal lodge]

heart rend better send tweet

[royal helm]

Oh, huh... who made it and is it available on the discord?

[cosmic hornet]

right i forgot i wanted t math out splitting headache vs heart rend

though i assume heartrend would win that easily

...holdup
heartrend makes critical hits deal 450% damage right?

[opal lodge]

yee

[cosmic hornet]

it might not be that far ahead

[royal helm]

Yes