There's a handful of players who are very capable of clearing it but they just get shafted by rng so it's impossible to clear
#h1-builds-and-combat
tight basin
random tapir
losing your whole mirror and losing the ability to actually pick which boon you get, those are crippling disadvantages
tight basin
The issue is the fact that very few runs are actually usable considering what you need lmao
random tapir
yeah. I mean fwiw if they have a similar structure in hades2, I don't think approval process is something that makes sense to have
tight basin
That's probably the more constricting part rather than the "enemies will murder you very fast" part lmao
Honestly more balanced pact valued would be nice in hades 2
random tapir
yeah. more balanced weapon aspects too
tight basin
And no approval process 2 lmao
That too
Make gilga not suck
Tbf I'm fine with certain aspects being better than others but also don't make them unintuitive to play lmao
random tapir
i think melee weapons also need to get clearer compensation for... being melee. Like you're just in a lot more danger in melee generally speaking
and there isn't a very obvious pay off in general
shields can block so they mitigate this, but you really feel this on the other weapons
tight basin
Tmw fists are better than sword for heat because fists have long knuckle lmao
Honestly kinda down for another unbeatable max heat type thing for hades 2 lmao
Would be funny
marble inlet
Real
wild stone
trying out the gun for basically my first time because i only played briefly over 2 years ago
just buffing the special a ton and it's working pretty well
ok now i have triple bomb so i guess that's gg
narrow pike
Question: Merciful End bonus 40 damage is added to your Doom's "base" damage?
proper furnace
Question: Merciful End bonus 40 damage is added to your Doom's "base" damage?
Is added after all the other buffs
Is a flat 40
narrow pike
Hmm then my numbers wouldn't add up
Check #h1-victory-boasting message and can you please explain how this hits for somewhere slightly above 600 when proccing Merciful End
narrow pike
↑ Just found that he's pretty good on Rama's Special... 🙈
Also Hunting Blades is very strong and borderline cheesy
proper furnace
can't imagine what he's good on
Merciful end builds/hunting blades mainly yeah
@narrow pike how big was the strong drink buff?
wary adder
Check https://discord.com/channels/456889434672201729/725021639506526249/1138211...
extra damage % from strong drink and family favourite
vagrant crane
Check https://discord.com/channels/456889434672201729/725021639506526249/1138211...
608?
tight basin
RaME moment
vagrant crane
have you seen the sub30 dad on zeus
tight basin
Nope
vagrant crane
tight basin
I've seen the sub6 dad fight iirc but I heard that it wasn't sub30
vagrant crane
that was 30.80
tight basin
Did I see a 2820 doom proc at the end
Oh nvm that was added damage lmao
Insane tho
Faster than my beo dad fights lmao
narrow pike
Back from AFK, fortunately still have victory screen open. Strong Drink = +21%, have four gods for +20%, Impending Doom +105%, total modifier x2.46. Base damage 224. Result:
(224 * 2.46) + 40 = 591.04
Doesn't reach 600 yet
proper furnace
Hermes cpunts for fam fav
narrow pike
Good reminder. What about Hades Call?
tight basin
Shouldn't
vagrant crane
no
narrow pike
This makes total modifier 2.51:
(224 * 2.51) + 40 = 602.24
Seems about right I suppose 🤔
I recall seeing exactly 600 at least in some cases, not sure why
But maybe I misread
wary adder
I recall seeing exactly 600 at least in some cases, not sure why
if the total modifier was instead 2.5 you would get exactly 600 damage
which is a bit suspicious
narrow pike
🤔
wild stone
none of these shield aspects look especially appealing
narrow pike
Zeus and Beowulf aspects are generally considered supremely powerful if you build and use them right
vagrant crane
sure
narrow pike
Aspect of Chaos is not so strong but I personally sort of enjoy it
narrow pike
Recommend reading the guide pinned here
wild stone
i don't think i have "beowulf" lol
vagrant crane
Recommend reading the guide pinned here
why
proper furnace
Ia the 4th one
wild stone
chaos is an f tier
real?
i'd imagine with several stacks on it the damage wouldn't be That bad
warm snow
zeus is a little tough but holds up very well in heat
proper furnace
Check #h1-story-discussion pins for those
vagrant crane
real?
i'd imagine with several stacks on it the damage wouldn't be That bad
it's awful
warm snow
real?
i'd imagine with several stacks on it the damage wouldn't be That bad
special is 15 damage
proper furnace
I thought that was for sharp
wild stone
zeus is a little tough but holds up very well in heat
saw a vid and the way it consistently taps damage over time looks good for that one heat setting that requires extra hits before things take dmg
warm snow
just hit them twice
proper furnace
Just don't take dc
vagrant crane
I thought that was for sharp
boulyai
warm snow
meh
vagrant crane
And still has block at the end of the day
not if u press q
proper furnace
Saved by being a shield lmao
narrow pike
I'm 200+ hours into the game but only recently thanks to some comments in this channel realized that not all Zeus electricity is created equal. Lightning bolts seem to be significantly better than chain lightning, right? Chain lightning boons enable and benefit from Storm Lightning which is underwhelming and pollutes your boon pool, while lightning bolt boons enable and benefit from Double Strike and High Voltage, both of which are prereqs for Splitting Bolt (which is also a bolt). Which generally means you don't really want Zeus Attack and Cast, you want his Special, Dash, Aid much more
vagrant crane
I'm 200+ hours into the game but only recently thanks to some comments in this c...
no
idk where u got this conception
zeus atk and cast are both very good
warm snow
what you really want is Jolted
but zeus attack works just fine on lower damage weapons: eris, zagspear, sword i've heard
lucid oar
They’re both different
vagrant crane
zeus sepcial is usually a poor idea
zeus dash is situational
and zeus call is rlly good
lucid oar
Bolts are good with double strike, yes, but Zeus attack spreads jolted way more efficiently
I wouldn’t go as far to say one is better than the other tbh
tight basin
The issue with Zeus attack and cast is that storm lightning sucks, not that the attack and cast are bad lmao
lucid oar
Zeus special is a pog boon and Zeus call is the best call
narrow pike
I mean sure I've had plenty of successful runs with Zeus Attack and Cast, so they're definitely good in the right circumstances
vagrant crane
i cant think of any situation where you would not like eshot
narrow pike
What do you mean "Splitting Bolt is its own thing"?
Is it unaffected by Double Strike? What about Sea Storm?
tight basin
Splitting bolt is like jolted more or less
lucid oar
It’s like chain lightning but way slower
narrow pike
Splitting Bolt says "bolt", Sea Storm and Lightning Rod just say "lightning". Is any of them affected by Double Strike?
tight basin
Sea storm and lightning rod I believe
vagrant crane
sea storm has way higher chance than it should of dstriking
narrow pike
Hmm... does Splitting Bolt proc off Sea Storm and Lightning Rod?
lucid oar
Sea storm, flourish, vengeance and flare all do
vagrant crane
Hmm... does Splitting Bolt proc off Sea Storm and Lightning Rod?
yes
lucid oar
Hmm... does Splitting Bolt proc off Sea Storm and Lightning Rod?
Yes and yes
tight basin
The easiest way to differentiate is where is the damage coming from
If it comes down from the sky it's a thunder bolt
If it's from some other source it's probably something else
lucid oar
https://youtu.be/2ncBi2qMxsA love this video
narrow pike
I've heard that Double Strike had a higher chance than stated, but I thought it applies to everything
So only Sea Storm has this bug?
lucid oar
Sea storm, flourish, vengeance and flare all do
.
vagrant crane
Thunder Flourish, Thunder Flare, Heaven’s Vengeance, and Sea Storm
random tapir
fwiw (and in case its useful) I only recently started to understand that there are universal damage boosts in the game; that most things don't apply to zeus flat damage, but some things do
lucid oar
Up to that point yeah
tight basin
Lightning rod and Rd lmao amazing
random tapir
what's RD again?
lucid oar
Rush delivery
random tapir
ah
narrow pike
Lots of useful info, thanks for explaining
warm snow
https://youtu.be/2ncBi2qMxsA love this video
LMAO
random tapir
ah so RD interacts with zeus dash?
warm snow
so many boons coming together
lucid oar
ah so RD interacts with zeus dash?
Pretty much every attack zag does
random tapir
(because of hyperdash)
lucid oar
Yep
random tapir
Hmm so if you dash and then cast
and the cast hits a wall
and starts doing lightning rod....
that gets the RD damage bonus?
lucid oar
It’s even better than that
round umbra
Hmm so if you dash and then cast
It's updated in real time I think. With the exception being Achilles boost
random tapir
ah okay
narrow pike
From what I hear in this channel, it sounds like global damage bonuses are checked when damage is applied. Basically it updates dynamically for anything you do
random tapir
so RD + hyperdash is very good
lucid oar
And you’ll get the boosted damage
round umbra
Oh I guess that makes sense being a global damage thing
narrow pike
I like the name "Hyper Delivery"
random tapir
hmm
lucid oar
so RD + hyperdash is very good
Yeah it’s a very key component in speed runs
round umbra
so RD + hyperdash is very good
Seems like the most talked about speed running thing yeah
lucid oar
Nearly always the goal boons from Hermes
vagrant crane
i do be hard resetting for rd
round umbra
which is a little boring
random tapir
so Eris + posiedon dash + RD + hyperdash + sea storm... ?
vagrant crane
i have more mirageless sub6s than rdless
round umbra
Lol
vagrant crane
rd 2 strongh
lucid oar
so Eris + posiedon dash + RD + hyperdash + sea storm... ?
It’s nuts yeah
proper furnace
so RD + hyperdash is very good
Then you add a few ichors for the funny
random tapir
god damn
round umbra
so Eris + posiedon dash + RD + hyperdash + sea storm... ?
Also grab bad news in styx
lucid oar
i do be hard resetting for rd
I’d go insane if I did this
vagrant crane
Also grab bad news in styx
haste is better
round umbra
Oh right miltiplcate
random tapir
I need to do some Eris + Sea Storm runs, I don't think I've actually done it yet
vagrant crane
You can literally buy epic rd for 40 obols
yea but i never get to
lucid oar
Very fun when it comes together
vagrant crane
unless i already have it
proper furnace
I need to do some Eris + Sea Storm runs, I don't think I've actually done it yet
Go back to earlier versions where dash opened sea storm
random tapir
hehe
proper furnace
You also get 4 bars dad call and 8 seconds eris buff
lucid oar
And when eris lasted 8s
random tapir
i don't think I've ever failed to enjoy a sea storm run tbh
and I haven't even used it with eris yet
proper furnace
4 bar dad call was funny
lucid oar
Sea storm Rama is so funny
proper furnace
Now you need proud bearing
lucid oar
With Poseidon special
lucid oar
Nah sadly not
proper furnace
Cooldown issue
random tapir
what makes it so funny then?
lucid oar
It’s still pretty often though
lucid oar
You can just stack a bunch of stuff
Razor shoals, dstrike, splitting, jolted
(Have to be lucky enough to get them though)
proper furnace
Shoals my beloved
random tapir
yeah. though I will say the nice thing with those poseidon/zeus runs is that there's more things that you feel like you can kind of make it work
even if you don't get e.g. seastorm, maybe you get lightning rod instead or just get to pom the right things a lot, and so on
when I go for say merciful end, I mean you're pretty much going all in on it
same with hunter's blades
lucid oar
Yeah
wild stone
pierced butterfly seems very strong potentially
wild stone
sad
not enough encounters to meaningfully stack it?
wild stone
makes sense if you swap it out that it especially stops being worth
narrow pike
Do you need a Call boon to be eligible for Smair?
proper furnace
Yes
proper furnace
You get the buff when catching the shield again
wild stone
oh
that's so cringe
lucid oar
Indeed
round umbra
Confirming: base beo special has knockback enough for sea storm? But not ruptured obvi
vagrant crane
shoals only applies to pos boons
round umbra
Knockback on beo special?
vagrant crane
Your Boons with knock away effects
narrow pike
I can confirm that shield knockback on other aspects can trigger Sea Storm, for what it's worth. Can't answer the question though
round umbra
Asking cause I could replace pos special with aphro special for another 70%. Have seastorm. Trying the beo special only run that I incidentally got everyone else to do
round umbra
CFlightyea first room
vagrant crane
without cflight beo special only is like banging a spaghetti plate against a construction machine
round umbra
Sounds fun
So that's a no on the sea storm on it then
Dang
More damage since I don't have jolted ig. Still sad
wild stone
1hp win (3 revives still but still feels cool)
zeus shield did well but i definitely built it poorly
i need to get keepsakes to target specific gods
round umbra
What non pos ways are there to knock back? Sword special, shield attack. Bull rush? Charged shot?
wild stone
on a spear run rn and it's by far the highest dps i've had so far
divine strike, tidal dash, roiling lunge, serrated point, greatest reflex
dash attack spam
warm snow
let me turn you onto Flurry Jab
wild stone
4 win streak 
wild stone
divine strike vs divine dash upgrade
i have both
actually i guess because i have world splitter it's probably better to do strike
wild stone
weird
my new fastest clear time was with stygian blade
i guess the burst damage of world splitter cleared rooms fast
didn't expect world splitter to be that usable
marble inlet
HOLY CRUD
I just got Zues' legendary in Tartarus
marble inlet
...
I walked into a Buzzsaw thing in Styx.
tight basin
Based
marble inlet
Stuff hurts
wild stone
just got my 6th consecutive win, tried out bow this time, really didn't like it at all
i picked the aspect that makes the volley special target and it didn't really do all that much
i couldn't upgrade it at all though
vagrant crane
that ones pretty garbage
tight basin
especially if you didn't upgrade it
warm snow
is rama kinda like hestia
where you don't use a keepsake for attack boon
and just hope for a decent %
warm snow
arty into aspho?
vagrant crane
yeah for dash
warm snow
mmm
vagrant crane
if you have it already shackle with no attack or flood shot with attack
get beaver for styx
dapper harness
beaver?
vagrant crane
breaking wave
dapper harness
alr
rapid topaz
Hmmm The Lucifer Laser when i pick Athena
Attack won't deflect until the bullet touches the inner part of the beam
proper furnace
Yup
rapid topaz
Sadge. It would becoming Jedi built when the beam deflect the bullet but now i have to rely on Arthur
round umbra
Sadge. It would becoming Jedi built when the beam deflect the bullet but now i h...
Put athena on lucifer special
For mucho deflect
rapid topaz
@round umbra i already tried that though. Even on Zeus shield. The most ridiculous idea i got is punching to deflect. Turning on Muda mode and backing off all the bullets
random tapir
Athena on zeus special is pretty great for merciful end
random sequoia
How good is the Pom Blossom keepsake?
round umbra
Typically not recommended
For heat and for speed there are usually better options.
Most common time I use it is when I reset when knowing I'm going to start with a boon I want and I want it pommed in tart.
Most people are just taking a god keepsake into tart
random sequoia
What I usually end up doing is taking a deity keepsake for Tartarus and Asphodel
After that I don't know what to take for Elysium
round umbra
Yeah, that's what most do
random sequoia
And for Hades it's always Acorn
tight basin
After that I don't know what to take for Elysium
Hourglass or acorn into ely
random sequoia
Had a ridiculously broken run I squandered at heat 9 because I just took a few hits
tight basin
Purse can work too if you're broke
random sequoia
Oh, I see
I was swimming in coin and every boon was purple rarity thanks to chaos and Poseidon
I got like 3 powerful duo boons
Aphro/Dio, Poseidon/Aphro and Zeus/Dio
Still lost to Elysium because of the Macedonian
And losing a death defience at Lernie
round umbra
Hourglass letting you use it at two biome end shops is cool
random sequoia
Also, a few more questions then
How do people rate these more obscure keepsakes?
- Old Spiked Collar
- Black Shawl
- Myrmidon Bracer
- Distant Memory
- Harpy Feather Duster
- Sigil of the Dead
tight basin
Collar isnt bad for early game but tooth is better and just as easy to get
rapid topaz
How do people rate these more obscure keepsakes?
* Old Spiked Collar
* Black Sha...
Myrmidon is fab with fist, Sigil of the Dead is clearly the Assassin Creed call, Old Spiked Collar fun HP given, Black Shawl not so much, The tooth is a okay.
round umbra
Has anyone dome the math on feather duster? Curious how it does in non timed runs for total healing if when it is given isn't an issue
proper furnace
Iirc there is a cap of one food per room
narrow pike
Expecting a certain answer already but just to confirm: when you have a consumable rarity boost like Yarn of Ariadne, Eury Nectar, etc., when it's used on a boon, it applies to that entire screen including each choice and rerolls?
eager flint
damn, zag rail with spread shot is so fun
It's crazy the damage I was doing with even just the spread shot
flat bone
Is there a way to make a good Revenge build?
Iirc there was a boon that applies Revenge boons randomly
worn solar
it applies every 3 seconds so kinda meh
you can stack damage reduction and revenge on arthur and face tank bosses on lower heat ig
flat bone
you can stack damage reduction and revenge on arthur and face tank bosses on low...
that is pretty funny at least
round umbra
Can do zeus shield and stand in a corner blocking while revenge boons go off
random tapir
Iirc there was a boon that applies Revenge boons randomly
Yeah, taht's the ares/zeus duo.
the thing is the extra revenge damage is all passive, so it's not bad in the sense that you can still do your normal attack. But it's not an amazing amount of damage.
It's also a bit annoying ot make it work in the sense that each god basically has one revenge boon, so you're trying really hard to get this specific boon, from every god in your pool
flat bone
yeah but it's still very funny
random tapir
well, if you want to watch stuff die without "doing" something, for some definition of doing
worn solar
you can also just buff up zeus revenge a lot
flat bone
that you can technically sit still and do at least decent damage
random tapir
beams are pretty strong
but you have to cast the beams at some point
they do last for a long time though
round umbra
Revenge boons all have no prereq right? So if you never take primary boons from a god your e more like to get their revenge
random tapir
the revenge "build" would be a lot more attractive if ares was a better god to randomly mix into things
round umbra
Revenge doom is big number
random tapir
taking an ares core boon when you're not doing ME or HB is a bit eh
random tapir
Yeah, and aphro as well
round umbra
Pretty nice damage
random tapir
because her revenge boon will apply weak
and then their duo will give you another doom proc
it's probably a 50% damage increase
round umbra
Curse of longing would just not proc with impending
If they were in range for the reapply
random tapir
if you actually apply it to every single enemy, every 3 seconds, then sure
but you probably won't
the range is short
and like, idk, aphro is probably one of the better revenge boons, putting weak on everything helps you dramatically
zeus/aphro opens up smair
etc
I guess if your goal is to maximize passive damage, then you would run this on eris
proper furnace
There are a few afk wins vs dad in youtube if you wanna laugh
In other words revenge builds
random tapir
yeah I remember seeing a haelian one
proper furnace
There is an em4 one
random tapir
maybe this isn't so bad. You would start Eris/Zeus which is a pretty standard thing anyway, get zeus attack as usual... if you see area you can transition to a revenge build
*ares
usually with eris I start zeus and try to go for sea storm but this would be a change
tight basin
You still need an ares core iirc
tight basin
And you don't want an ares core unless you have Artemis special
tight basin
but doom on special isn't so bad
Kinda is
tight basin
And you don't want an ares core unless you have Artemis special
Also if you have arty special and you happen to get ares cast you'd rather have hunting blades lmao
random tapir
what makes it so bad?
tight basin
Imagine getting clockets and only adding like 120 extra damage
random tapir
imagine assuming you always get clockets?
worn solar
eris's best hamners are the special ones and they dont have good synergy with doom
tight basin
Instead of like 400 more lmao
tight basin
imagine assuming you always get clockets?
I mean it's an example lmao
There's more
But unananas kinda said it
worn solar
like even with just single rocket youd rather have the burst damage
random tapir
yeah, but you might not get any of these hammers is the thing
worn solar
with eris you can just kill stuff before doom even gets the chance to proc
tight basin
And you'd still want Artemis or Aphrodite special lmao
Crit kinda good
Aphro kinda chunky
random tapir
i mean like we just had a convo about this I feel like in anothe rchannel
sub-optimal != bad or trash
tight basin
I mean eh you do you
random tapir
if you don't get those special hammers this is still going to with a coupe of poms add like 150 damage on your special
which is more than you'll get from a % boon
at any rate it is a good point though re the hammers
so where would you put a doom core?
vagrant crane
nowhere on eris
random tapir
the others are also kind of meh
in the interest of making this build work
the idea is not how to play eris optimally, it's how to maximize damage on a revenge build
round umbra
so where would you put a doom core?
Can get bladed dash
random tapir
you could go for ares on dash or something, which also sucks but maybe it does less harm to the build there
worn solar
well for revenge id still just do arthur so i can take hits
round umbra
Bladed dash nice
vagrant crane
blade dash is decent
random tapir
I guess that's a point. I just thought eris is going to give you a massive damage boost on the revent
vagrant crane
just pom it
random tapir
*revenge
vagrant crane
get engulfing
worn solar
idk if you even need a doom core for vengeful mood i think you can get it with just the revenge doom
random tapir
the wiki says
One of each:Ares: Curse of Agony, Curse of Pain, Slicing Shot / Slicing Flare, Blade Dash, or Ares' Aid
idk if the wiki is correct or not
worn solar
clearly optimal choice here is ares aid then
tight basin
Lmfao
random tapir
that is a good point
perfect build, zeus/ares/aphro.
Use smair to stay in blade form as much as you can and avoid damage. Let revenge proc.
vagrant crane
just do athena call then
random tapir
We need an ares core boon for revenge
and athena would make it a 4 god build
this is mostly all meme-ing anyway. I guess if you want AFK damage it's better to just go for lightning rods
round umbra
No attack or special challenge
Do you go pos sword or any of the non hidden shields?
Eris and Achilles become strong contenders if you just can't hit anyone with your special
vagrant crane
it's just pos sword
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/771815559410876446/1104841045503643698/image.png?width=1246&height=701 this is the wr
vagrant crane
cast only
round umbra
No dashing at all? Neat
round umbra
Records when not allowed to dash would be interesting.
vagrant crane
there was a no dash eris sub6 i think that was wr
narrow pike
Looking at "elite" Zeus room vs "trial" Zeus+Aphrodite room. How much each of them boosts Legendary chances?
random sequoia
What are the most common builds to make any Fists of Malphon aspect work?
narrow pike
I thought elite/skull rooms provided the standard +10% boost to Legendary?
vagrant crane
for trial
vagrant crane
I thought elite/skull rooms provided the standard +10% boost to Legendary?
is it midboss or elite
random sequoia
I've tried doing EM4 and it was ridiculously hard
vagrant crane
What are the most common builds to make any Fists of Malphon aspect work?
merciful end
random sequoia
Hmm, I see
narrow pike
Well, it's marked with a skull, and I'm in Region 3. Isn't this always a miniboss? I'm actually not sure
random sequoia
That one works well on all the weapons, but the fists are great with it for sure
narrow pike
I think Region 1 has skull rooms full of regular armored enemies, but Region 3 doesn't have that? I forgot
vagrant crane
Well, it's marked with a skull, and I'm in Region 3. Isn't this always a minibos...
what kind of skull
narrow pike
There are different ones???
random sequoia
Albeit I don't really like the build as much as having stuff like Dionysus with Aphro or Zeus
proper furnace
If it has a skull and a boon is always mini boss
vagrant crane
theres the kind where all enemies are armored
random sequoia
I just love Dionysus builds ngl
vagrant crane
and theres the kind where it's a midboss
narrow pike
Ah, this one has a boon as previously mentioned. So that's always a miniboss? And the ones full of armored normal enemies are "MetaProgress" rooms with a skull?
outer sonnet
There is a pin in one of the channels that tells you which is which
There is a difference in the skulls
vagrant crane
yeah im trying to find it
proper furnace
Ah, this one has a boon as previously mentioned. So that's always a miniboss? An...
Yup
vagrant crane
difficult encounter means armored
narrow pike
Oooh there are pips on the skulls, I almost noticed one time and then forgot again
Nice chart, thanks
proper furnace
I always forget about it lol
narrow pike
So, the boon room has a skull with a single pip, so either big Soul Catcher or Asterius. The trial room has no pips on the skull
Going back to the original question, what kinda modifiers to Rare/Epic/Duo/Legendary do they provide? Missing from the chart here
tight basin
Elite rooms are always blue laurels so that doesn't matter
Miniboss is guaranteed rare+ in Tartarus but nearly always rare+ everywhere else
Minibosses have increased rare and epic odds but 2% less chance of duo/legendary
Standard is 12%, miniboss is 10%
narrow pike
Oh really? Interesting
tight basin
Yeah
The only useful application of this where it'd matter is like if you have say Artemis keepsake and Artemis is offered in midshop and the next room is Artemis miniboss, you should roll the midshop rather than miniboss
If you don't have a lot of rerolls left at least
Or want to save them
narrow pike
Hmm good to know
tight basin
But otherwise it's not that big of a deal
narrow pike
And trial rooms have standard chances like normal rooms, except no Duos?
Which means they're better for Legendaries
tight basin
Yeah I think so
Technically yeah if you have other duos open
If you don't have any open in the first place then it doesn't matter lol
narrow pike
Well, in my case I have some open so it's a factor
tight basin
Yeah fair
narrow pike
The ingame boon codex is an absolute savior, I wish the UI was snappier
vagrant crane
outer sonnet
https://cpecific.github.io/hades-wiki/
?
vagrant crane
basically codex
tight basin
And has hammer info lol
warm snow
oh that's cool as hell
random tapir
I just love Dionysus builds ngl
I feel like I'm the opposite
dio has so many gotchas relative to the power level
you have to watch out for attack/special/call overwriting each other, that's already one headache
your weapon has to kind of attack at a very specific rate; too slow and % is better, too fast and you'll be at the limit for stacks and it becomes eh again.
it's both single target, and delayed, and it doesn't really get buffed that much.
Whereas zeus stuff is instant, a lot of it is multi target or aoe, and you can add 2-3 boons which buff it insanely.
vagrant crane
you have to watch out for attack/special/call overwriting each other, that's alr...
you can just like only take one hangover source
hangover is usually just worse than zeus
outer sonnet
you can just like only take one hangover source
Huge brain
outer sonnet
hangover is usually just worse than zeus
True
random tapir
yeah, it's just like, you take one hangover source, but then also usually you don't want dio call
vagrant crane
its primary usage is for high heat
random tapir
so you're taking this god just to get a single core boon
vagrant crane
because it just takes a few poms to get dps
random tapir
and a couple of auxiliary stuff
vagrant crane
at low heat it’ll scale a lot more poorly than zeus
random tapir
yeah, I mean I realize it adds, over time, more damage than zeus in many cases, esp if zeus doesn't have support boons
(more single target damage)
vagrant crane
ME
wild stone
explosive return vs charged shot hard choice
wild stone
zeus special and slap any other zeus boon you find
yeah seems obvi good
wild stone
ok i tried to go for zeus
double strike, thunder flourish, splitting bolt (legendary! nice)
is what i have now
proper furnace
lmao gg
wild stone
it does indeed do damage
proper furnace
find static discharge/zeus aid
proper furnace
oh lmao
vagrant crane
you'll get there
vagrant crane
my brain is assuming that's a basic good starter target
strongly depends on what you've done before you start running
wild stone
literally New and just trying to learn and get good
vagrant crane
for me i did 50 heat and 33 boonless mirrorless before i ran so i got to sub8 pretty quickly but for some others they just get their bounties done or not even and might struggle with sub10
wild stone
i did heat lvl 3 earlier but that's as far as i went with that
vagrant crane
doing heat first i recommend more imo
cause it translates and you'll feel like you're getting better fast
wild stone
this run i wanted to quickly grind for more darkness lol
so i decided to try zeus shield build for easy fast win
but yeah makes sense
having fun just learning build synergies and rigging game in my favor and whatnot
gonna try to do a merciful end themed build this time if i can
warm snow
what aspect
wild stone
zeus
warm snow
make sure ares is on special
wild stone
is athena ever good on special
warm snow
no like it's far easier to use that way
ares attack Athena special is the norm
only reversed on Zeus
proper furnace
both work for zeus, really
wild stone
alright gonna go for a heat4 merciful end zeus shield run
proper furnace
doom special has higher dmg tho
wild stone
got early hammer and then chaos gate and no ares yet lol
chaos gate wasn't very worth this time
found athena naturally in the first region 💯
marble inlet
:]
wild stone
let's GO already got merciful end before the 2nd boss
my attack deflects, my special inflicts doom
gonna be good 
wild stone
this is busted
tight basin
ME do be kinda strong
tight basin
Does cast damage bonuses affect the ice shards from blizzard shot?
i'd imagine so
isn't that where the bulk of the cast damage is coming from anyways
wild stone
now i have to pick between Heroic divine dash or Epic blinding flash
proper furnace
still ME right
wild stone
yes
proper furnace
what dash do you have in 1st place
wild stone
epic thunder dash
not very good (with how i've built so far at least idk)
my attacks have deflect and hit twice currently
proper furnace
isn't that where the bulk of the cast damage is coming from anyways
looking at speedcord apparently it doesn't
worn solar
ig thunderdash aint that bad if you get jolted
wild stone
i'm not sure i even need the deflect dash
proper furnace
looking at speedcord apparently it doesn't <:bouldy:523329116934635534>
tho we how often we use it is probably better to test just in case
wild stone
might be better to go for 75% damage bonus
proper furnace
blinding flash is bonus for backstabs
wild stone
i can already proc the doom every tick
worn solar
can zeus special even backstab
tight basin
looking at speedcord apparently it doesn't <:bouldy:523329116934635534>
wait really
blizzard shot sucks lmao
wild stone
can zeus special even backstab
the answer is no
but my attacks still could and i do have 20% attack speed and double attacks
¯_(ツ)_/¯
dire misfortune seems useless with this build unless i'm misreading it
proper furnace
it is
round umbra
Impending, on the other hand
tight basin
Dire misfortune is for when you don't have ME yet
Once you get ME it's pretty useless
wild stone
tbh i thought fists + zeus would do a lot more than it ever did
in my run just now
guess i got unlucky or something
idk how rarities work
round umbra
Like poms, they make number bigger
proper furnace
you want rush delivery or splitting for mad dmg tbh
ideally both
for decent dmg, pommed static discharge
wild stone
won the game with all the weapons at least once now
alright how the Fwick do i unlock the last aspect for shield lol
proper furnace
won the game with all the weapons at least once now
alright how the Fwick do i u...
#h1-story-discussion pins
tight basin
tbh i thought fists + zeus would do a lot more than it ever did
You need jolted
And rd/splitting for much bigger damage like stated
Jolted is more consistent to get tho
wild stone
i'm doing crush shot + snow burst on hera bow rn i got distracted
this is too convenient
wild stone
You need jolted
had it but it wasn't very impressive idk
round umbra
Snurst often overly encourages me to self murder on hera
warm snow
i'm doing crush shot + snow burst on hera bow rn i got distracted
classic
wild stone
is thunder flourish any good on the special
proper furnace
is thunder flourish any good on the special
bow special? no, zeus stuff have an internal cooldown
thunder flourish is 0.2 secs so you only get like 1 or 2 bolts
warm snow
it's great on rama though
wild stone
not liking what hammers are giving me on this run
might stick to poms
just missed out on one for a hammer </3
round umbra
thunder flourish is 0.2 secs so you only get like 1 or 2 bolts
It can be aight if not point blanking by it
round umbra
just missed out on one for a hammer </3
That's one crappy hammer you can t see again!
Can you anvil with no hammers?
tight basin
had it but it wasn't very impressive idk
unfortunate
proper furnace
Can you anvil with no hammers?
no
tight basin
styx fresh file is always anvil iirc because you can't get hermes until your 4th run lmao
and you dont get hammers until like your 3rd run
round umbra
I thought hammers were right away. Interesting
vagrant crane
ff would probably be less painful
wild stone
got that thing that upgrades rarity over time and it happened to select crush shot
so i guess that's gonna burst HARD once it's upgraded
tight basin
rare crop is bugged on hera to deal variable damage apparently lmao
there aren't really any other details on that afaik
i think someone was just like "huh that's not the right number" or something
wild stone
nice
spaghetti code moment
fellas is guan yu straight garbage because i am Looking at it and it just Feels kinda garbage
tight basin
the fun part is you get to ignore the main gimmick of the life steal spin and focus on the special which has a built in exploding launcher
wild stone
i am scared this one will end my streak
13 wins i think
tight basin
although you need charged skewer
guan yu without charged skewer is kinda bad lmao
if you want to use the spin, guan yu without quick spin is also bad lmao
you can save scum the first boon/hammer and pick a different aspect if you dont like the choices
vagrant crane
fellas is guan yu straight garbage because i am Looking at it and it just Feels ...
no
it's good
tight basin
good only if you get the good hammer lmao
wild stone
is charged skewer a hammer upgrade
vagrant crane
i am scared this one will end my streak
13 wins i think
#h1-discussion message ye ole mantra
tight basin
is charged skewer a hammer upgrade
yeah
vagrant crane
wild stone
there's no way to even guarantee a hammer is there
vagrant crane
nearing 600 now
tight basin
wtf
tight basin
there's no way to even guarantee a hammer is there
no
vagrant crane
there's no way to even guarantee a hammer is there
you'll for the most part get 2 hammers per rrun
tight basin
if you get a hammer start, you can save scum between aspects and pick what you like
vagrant crane
tight basin
you mean region?
no
wild stone
wtf
tight basin
okay well
you can only pick up 2 hammers per run
you'll be offered hammer rewards until you get the 2nd one
so you can like
wild stone
if you get a hammer start, you can save scum between aspects and pick what you l...
wat
tight basin
in elysium you can skip the hammer door like 3 times and still get it later
vagrant crane
are you on controller
tight basin
so you enter the run, pick up the reward, and see what's there
vagrant crane
on controller i believe you can also give up during death animataion
tight basin
if you're playing like hera and the options are attack, special, and dash, you can hit "give up" and pick like idk zag bow and you'll be offered the same options
so you can pick attack
wild stone
it preserves the same offerings??
tight basin
yeah
wild stone
weird
tight basin
it's the same seed
and nothing has changed the starting seed at that point
so no matter what, the first boon options will be the same
wild stone
are you on controller
no lol
tight basin
for hammers it might not be because some hammers are incompatible with certain aspects
wild stone
nice
LOL i got a hammer start
what a coincidence
it's not offering charged skewer though
truly unfortunate
so this one would be identical either way right?
tight basin
hit give up and pick a different aspect lmao
tight basin
so this one would be identical either way right?
might not be
some aspects are incompatible with certain hammers
like guan yu can't get flurry jab
achilles can't get charged skewer iirc
wild stone
i am trying to use specifically guan yu tho
tight basin
is there quick spin
wild stone
it is the quest or whatever
tight basin
you can use guan yu later
wild stone
no there's massive spin, serrated point, and winged serpent
tight basin
rip
all are bad lmao
i'd just wait on the quest if you want to preserve your win streak
wild stone
not sure what build i want to try next at all though
vagrant crane
do u have beowulf
rapid topaz
Also you will always have 4 types of boon from 4 gods all the run when you have collect them all in 12 Olympian.
Not sure about the rate of them appearing though. Sometime you get way much of a X god/goddess sometime it's only appearing one
wild stone
i wish divine strike made more sense than zeus on exagryph but i feel like there is no way it does
tight basin
Spread fire zag rail is so based
eager flint
Damn, Talos aspect is actually pretty fun if you get heavy knuckle and treat it as an attack aspect
ofc, ME is still a hundred times better, but then again it is ME
fwiw it's much more fun than playing cast build on Talos, but then again that's a low bar
tight basin
on the other hand i would just not play talos lmao
eager flint
True xD
But I'm stubborn and want to make that forlorn aspect at least a bit fun
And I think going all in on attack is the best bet
eager flint
Oh yeah, it's not ME by a long shot
tight basin
rather just do zap fists lmao
eager flint
Zag fists is just, like, boring. It's irrational on my part but my monkey brain goes "oh, dodge chance, ok"
But yeah I'm mostly playing casually/for fun for now, I imagine my hatred of Talos aspect will get much bigger if I pick up high heat or speedrunning lol
tight basin
it's technically fine for speedrunning considering ME exists
eager flint
Yeah, maybe I'll just forget that aspects exist and just perma force ME on fists
tight basin
for heat it's probably fine until like about 40 and then you start making questionable decisions
tight basin
Yeah, maybe I'll just forget that aspects exist and just perma force ME on fists
based tbh
zap fists work pretty well for speedrunning tho
weaker but you can still sub10 with that
eager flint
Yeah, for now I'm completing a hellmode file so let's say speedrunning is clearly out of the question with JS and CP forced on every run
Once I'm satisfied with that save file I'll go back to regular gameplay
With the modpack too probably
eager flint
Yeah, RNG is nice to avoid runs being too repetitive but it shouldn't make or break one
I'm still surprised supergiant didn't put a late game option to get the satyr sack faster
Like a house contractor work to see which path has the sack after you complete your first one, or being able to give ambrosia to Cerberus instead of the sack
vagrant crane
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/825862916561305643/1138704011499950161/...
have u tried holding attack button
vagrant crane
does getting hit l,ower shiel
worn solar
yeah
worn solar
does getting hit l,ower shiel
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/787779476888354816/910373816176349195/Hades_2021-11-16_19-35-39_Trim_2.mp4 like example with splitting bolt bug
worn solar
frfr
rapid topaz
between the Golden Touches for gold and the other 100+ Gold for start which is better though
For me it's golden touches
vagrant crane
deep pockets every time
worn solar
hoarding gold isnt worth it
random sequoia
Extreme measures 4 are kinda ridiculous, ngl
I had 4 death defiances with half health and still lost to Hades because he had another phase after!
untold mauve
Just gotta know that he has three phases on em4
eager flint
I love how hard the EM4 fight is
Like, it's full power dad, I expect him to be incredibly strong
can't wait for EM5 where tony hits you with a steel chair
eager flint
Learned a cool thing : tempest flourish on talos aspect puts the enemy at the perfect range for long knuckle
untold mauve
Learned a cool thing : tempest flourish on talos aspect puts the enemy at the pe...
That's interesting I will use this information in the future
woven nexus
Does the Auto-Vengeance Duo work on every Vengeance boon?
lucid oar
Yes
woven nexus
that has got to be the most difficult but most fun setup to do
it's the only duo that needs 3 prereqs
and the rest of the potential pieces are separated on each god
warm snow
it's the only duo that needs 3 prereqs
smair
woven nexus
Smair only needs two iirc
well
3 if you have 0 calls
doesn't Zeus Call make that 2 easily?
woven nexus
I kinda love the Fist boon that makes special into the Ranged punches
makes for very quick ME chains
narrow pike
Finally realized that I can't get my last missing Spear Hammer on Achilles. Any suggestions for making Zagspear not suck, especially surviving FO2?
Sadly the missing hammer is Chain Skewer which is incompatible with Achilles, Guan Yu, and Exploding Launcher
My biggest trouble with spear melee is on the final boss. Unless you're in a strong cast build, you have to melee the boss, especially with Serrated Point, and using dash-attacks locks you into a relatively long animation that can prevent you from dashing in time to avoid his big attacks. Especially on FO2. I just can't get the timing down to be able to dash-attack with spear and consistently avoid damage
The animation may not look long, but it's like maybe it doesn't get dash-canceled as easily as some other dash-attacks, I'm not sure
Compare with sword's Special which can be canceled at practically any point...
woven nexus
just do a throwaway or low heat
round umbra
Finally realized that I can't get my last missing Spear Hammer on Achilles. Any ...
Lol that's what I was trying to subtly ask. Guess to subtly.
rapid topaz
Finally realized that I can't get my last missing Spear Hammer on Achilles. Any ...
Impendent doom? The Chain Skewer spread the Doom very fast. You just get Athena Dash the Impendent doom and the game turn into throw the spear and touch them. You could also go for Revenge build with Zeus so that on the way dashing at Daddy you will get tons of insane damage from Doom and the Revenge boon you collect along the way.
eager flint
I wish you could shishkebab the enemies by keeping pushing the special button
like an instant throw-retrieve
or a good buffer I guess
rapid topaz
Sadly the missing hammer is Chain Skewer which is incompatible with Achilles, Gu...
Achilles way more better for Cast build than Atk. Unless you get Athena on the Call and go with Hammer that support non-stop Attacking. Guan Yu is basically Exploding Launcher so the best for Guan Yu i have ever used is the Hammer that stretch out your Special and multiply the damage. (Special on Artemis).
rapid topaz
You all know it's onion in disguise when entering Erebus room seeing little butterfly and mini cart vroom vroom around the room.
narrow pike
I have a delicious onion waiting for you, boy.
rapid topaz
Plus the Limbo contest when two of the special type of minions got the string connects between them, one touch you get a free onion
proven osprey
Finally realized that I can't get my last missing Spear Hammer on Achilles. Any ...
Flurry jab, lightning strike and splash dash probably
Zag spear will still suck but flurry makes it a bit less painful
narrow pike
Suggestions for not dying while meleeing FO2 big boss with spear?
proven osprey
Do you play with HL5 on?
narrow pike
Just FO2, trying to get used
proven osprey
Then you can basically press all buttons and win tbh
narrow pike
Spear melee tends to lock you into animations sufficiently long so you can't dash in time for boss attacks
Not consistently anyway
At least when dash attacking, which you want
proven osprey
You need Zeus into zeus, a strong splash dash. You're going for a flat damage soup. Dad's call great too
Not spamming dash strikes is probably key in the beginning
then you'll get accustomed to the patterns and you'll be able to go at full speed and know when to dodge
narrow pike
- Want to hold atak and dash for DPS
- Want to not take dmg
🤔
Maybe stack dodge and DR...
Don't get me wrong, learning the patterns probably comes first, but might try ↑ too
proper furnace
Get comically large amount of health
random sequoia
Is Ares a good idea for Chiron bow Special builds?
vagrant crane
not particularly
random sequoia
What weapons does Ares like anyway?
How about Demeter on bow?
I just want to use Demeter and Ares more :c
I don't see any good builds with Ares for anything except shield...
narrow pike
Without Merciful End, Doom likes relatively slow things with low base damage, preferably something that can hit multiple enemies to apply Doom. Rama's Special is a near-perfect example
proper furnace
What weapons does Ares like anyway?
Any weapon that can dash strike quick for merciful end
random sequoia
I don't count Merciful End as eh
narrow pike
The question wasn't about what's best on X for speedrunning, though
vagrant crane
for ares the only non ME application is for fds
i think yeezy has used it on attack for bad zagshield
narrow pike
You're assuming that everyone always forces a particular build, which is an incorrect assumption
For example I like random "surprise me" runs and want to understand how to make the best use of any particular god
vagrant crane
it takes a lot of build knowledge to actually make doom fds work tho
on chiron your best bet is generally just gonna be either dio or a high %
narrow pike
I think that's not a good point and potentially misleading
On Chiron attack, Doom might be decent because you don't attack very often and don't rely on your attack for direct damage
vagrant crane
you attack often
narrow pike
You typically "tap" them with Attack and then use Special, which is suitable amount of time for Doom to proc
On Chiron Special, Hangover or Zeus is probably the best, but on Attack I'm still not sure. Doom seems like a contender maybe
vagrant crane
it's a major build sink that a normal attack isn't
zeus is not good on chiron special
narrow pike
It procs what, twice? That's still better than most % based increases I think?
vagrant crane
should be once
valid dagger
It'll proc once most of the time
narrow pike
Have only used Hangover myself. The pinned guide says twice, needs testing
vagrant crane
there's also the caveat that it's chiron so any kind of damage is a chore
round umbra
I just want to use Demeter and Ares more :c
Achilles is the best way to do either of their casts.
Doom isn't really used much outside of ME for optimal builds because of its speed. Putting it on shield special and running or blocking when throwing is a pretty easy and safe strat.
narrow pike
Achilles is an indisputable champion of cast damage, but when you get bored of counting 4 actions, Aspect of Poseidon and Eris can also provide half decent cast buffs
Useful to know if you're cycling through weapons and using semi-random builds
Oh yeah good reminder: I found Doom somewhat usable on Shield Atak (regardless of aspect) if you only charge and don't spam it
The frequency more or less matches
It's less attractive with the Charged Shot hammer or whatever it's called, because it gives you full base damage on any amount of charge and you want to spam it with some %-based boon
vagrant crane
you can take zeus attack on cshot
narrow pike
Normal Bull Rush requires full charge for full damage, so % increase is not so attractive
↑ What's so good about Zeus Atak on Charged Shot?
narrow pike
The shot is relatively chonky, seems like a waste of damage, but needs testing I suppose. Could be build-dependent
vagrant crane
narrow pike
If you have all sorts of Zeus goodies including Legendary, then you'd be taking this, but it's hard to get into such a situation where it's an option to decide
vagrant crane
aspect of cshot
narrow pike
How many times have you pressed the Special button
narrow pike
I use it less the more I play, but surely there's a use somewhere
vagrant crane
not really
narrow pike
Like maybe tagging an entire room with Doom
vagrant crane
could have just killed them already
proper furnace
there is a world where normal shield special doesn't put away your block
maybe it would have something
tight basin
idk it's supposed to be good
Zeus attack is just good for fds, not good on cshot lmao
vagrant crane
idkman
narrow pike
It doesn't just put the block away, there's also a stupid delay after catching before you can block...
tight basin
It works because of fds not because cshot enables it
tight basin
I mean yeah fds is just good
proper furnace
soup is indeed nice
tight basin
If you don't get fds then Zeus attack cshot sucks
vagrant crane
does that mean hit rd
narrow pike
BTW someone posted a noob question and you started talking about "fds" a while ago without ever bothering to define it
Abbreviations are not nice
vagrant crane
flat damage soup
narrow pike
Doom is like Hangover: many sources = bad? Like Curse of Vengeance would overwrite your pommed Atak/Special?
vagrant crane
well
im pretty sure veng with like
1 pom in it
would be more than an obscenely pommed atk/special on epic-
the scaling is way better
narrow pike
Fair, and someone suggested a vengeance build earlier
Still, the question is relevant
narrow pike
Hmm... intriguing
And unexpected, because when Curse of Longing is used, any normal Doom source does overwrite it
eager flint
I was under the impression doom is quite good even on its own, without Merciful End. When you go for ME builds, sure there's a clear before/after the duo but you don't feel like ares is particularly bad before either
It's like, mid
Can be good sometimes
round umbra
it's pretty bad
(For speed, if that was not the obvious from the follow up)
wild stone
I like the ares Call alone at least
Pretty good dmg over time and it looks nice
vagrant crane
rlly bad dmg
wild stone
But yeah imo from my very limited experiences doom kinda sucks alone, I'd def put it Low tier unless ME
wild stone
rlly bad dmg
It finishes like half of one phase/cycle of a boss
vagrant crane
only at greater call, in the time it would have taken to do a full phase normally
wild stone
Like the shield guy
When he does his tryhard powerup mode you can just press F and kill him and take no dmg
What's the best dmg output call tho
worn solar
zeus or dio
vagrant crane
needs poms
worn solar
ares call is generally just worse than athena
if you have vicious cycle the greater call can be funny tho
wild stone
attempting guan yu for first time
got a hammer start, went charged skewer, immediately got aphrodite on special and a pom
should be set
narrow pike
I found Guan Yu nice on KBM and painful on gamepad. You want Special→Dash-Atak→Dash-Atak while dashing away or sideways from your target, which is easy with KBM and impossible (?) on gamepad
On gamepad you just dash into your target which is usually more painful
GY Dash-Attack has almost as much range as Special
wild stone
chaos portal literally wants almost all of my hp just to enter it
man.
idk what god to go for besides athena and aphrodite
tight basin
idk what god to go for besides athena and aphrodite
zeus call for smair
eager flint
Arte for the funny big numbers
wild stone
tidal dash would be good if it didn't knock everything away from my fist
game is honestly throwing more Special buffs than attack buffs
might just go into that
¯_(ツ)_/¯
vagrant crane
tidal dash would be good if it didn't knock everything away from my fist
still good
rapid topaz
demeter any good on fists?
You could try Demeter fist with Demeter Special, releasing the chill stack for more damage. It's fun choosing Dio for Attk and Demeter for Special. Slow the target to the core.
untold mauve
Time to run a zapfist
untold mauve
Someone should just create a shorthand cheat sheet and we could all use it
untold mauve
I wanna do a run with someone doing the same strategy as me in vc
untold mauve
Anybody wanna run a zapfist race
untold mauve
What are those abbreviations for?
warm snow
real time attack or in-game time
untold mauve
Igt
warm snow
what heat
untold mauve
We could like 32 or smth
untold mauve
In about an hour and 15 minutes my wifi turns off but I'll take a pic of victory screen and post it when my wifi comes back on
vagrant crane
how u race igt
warm snow
you click always show timer
rapid topaz
Hmmm Choosing the challenge between Ares or Poseidon. Picking Ares, Ares said Thank you and then giving you 3 option with normal rarity. Are you serious???
obtuse summit
the one you pick should give you a rarity buff
or the ability to give duo boons or something
wild stone
what's a good build for the basic starter blade
worn solar
smair 
tight basin
Flat damage soup
wild stone
i do not know what smair means
vagrant crane
man
worn solar
zeus aphro duo
tight basin
Just do ME at 32
vagrant crane
its for the race or whatever
tight basin
Huh
tight basin
Which race is this
vagrant crane
they were racing zapfists 32