h1-discussion

[raw herald]

[gray apex]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/835377117616668692.gif?size=96

[elder turtle]

like i know im better than everyone in my friend group but i didnt realize i was good

i play rogue likes all the time though so maybe idk

idk though im not gonna be actively trying to run and i just wanted to post something because i dont talk in this server at all

sorry if i cant answer your question im not bright

i also dont really like the attention ngl so please dont praise me or anything

[astral walrus]

have you a means to record your runs?

https://www.speedrun.com/hades/full_game#Any_Heat do some research here

[abstract shuttle]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/292727720876703744/908013435495796756/44-0.jpg

nothing personal Thanatos

[high island]

Nice nice.

[outer pecan]

heyy I escaped for the first time 🥳

[lone kernel]

https://tenor.com/view/mario-super-mario-style-based-gangnam-style-gif-23330985

[outer pecan]

now the time to suffer with the pact

[gray apex]

I suggest you jump to EM4 for maximum gaming

[lone kernel]

Ap2 ri4 em4 peak gaming

[fast willow]

just do 63 heat first attempt

[devout terrace]

only becomes avaliable after 10 clears lol

then you have to unlock it

[fast willow]

oh

59 heat first attempt then

[gray apex]

rip

[outer pecan]

lmao why not

[safe shadow]

I may or may not be listening to the Hades soundtrack for who knows how many times lol

[fast willow]

EM5 is just EM4 except hades calls the previous 3 bosses to help, 1 per phase

[mint coral]

Just changes the charon fight

or tiny vermin

[fast willow]

added on to spawning minibosses in first phase ofcourse

[fast willow]

no pls

[lone kernel]

I wish there was heat that made runs more chambers

Like you’d end up more op but more dudes to kill lol

[short timber]

That would be a buff considering how little damage people take

[lone kernel]

It would be a total nightmare to balance but I always wish asphodel was a room or two longer

[short timber]

Max out chambers and nothing else

[lone kernel]

I want it more for funsies lol

[short timber]

Fair

[lone kernel]

Two mini bosses per biome

[short timber]

I have a lot of runs where I wish it was just a bit longer

[mint coral]

Pom blossom meme times

[lone kernel]

📠

[devout terrace]

[mint coral]

Gotta boost that hangover

[brisk trail]

What would it look like to have every cast enhancing boon at once?

Exlcuding the ones which directly contradict each other

Like cc and ce

[lone kernel]

Pick a cast to start lol

Too many variables

But prob pretty based

[short timber]

If I had to guess if they contradict each other you just can’t get both

Though maxing out casts is fun as hell

I finished my third run maxing out the blades cast and it was broken

[lone kernel]

Yeah, Demeter cast with crystal clarity, glacial glare and arctic blast is insanely based (note you need a source of chill for Arctic blast to occur, none of those open it)

Level 7 glacial glare and Stygian soul with bonus casts

you win game easy

[brisk trail]

63 heat ez game I'll take my refund

[lone kernel]

not 64? git gud noob

[brisk trail]

HS1

https://tenor.com/view/suffering-spinning-duck-fins-gif-17216927

[lone kernel]

if you get Stygian shard it’s heightened security for everyone

gaming

[brisk trail]

True!!

Styx axe one shots everything, including you

[lone kernel]

Sure footing best boon in the game

smoldering and jolted and Poseidon dash bad boons

[brisk trail]

All my homies hate sploosh doosh

Jolted is for wimps >:(((

Real men play beam, no cc only

Or zag spear

[lone kernel]

fists with no attack boon

right after my breakfast of chainsaws

[brisk trail]

Lmfao

Blade dash only

TD 3

FO2

Masochist Supreme burger

[chrome wharf]

Zag spear is perfectly respectable, one high heater did a 50 heat Zag spear (which died at EM dad) just to prove that it's faster than Charged Skewer GY at 50

[full nexus]

Late to the party but my first save file became unplayable around 3k attempts

[full nexus]

By no mean it's faster lmao

[oak gull]

On chiron bow, which of these two hammers should you prefer over the other? +4 arrows or +3 dmg per consecutive hit?

[gray apex]

Concentrated > Relentless for me

So I'd prefer the second one first

[astral walrus]

it's simple actually if you do the math

+4 arrows gives you only +40 damage

[last veldt]

Get both

I rolled the anvil and got both once.

[mint coral]

Concentrated gets funny with a high rarity swift flourish

[abstract shuttle]

best control binds? :v

[devout terrace]

I think my zag spear 50 had exploding launcher and flurry jab

timed out by 18 seconds and still won

my hades spear run went for a similar setup, got exploding launcher and quick spin

timed out 25 seconds and won

in contrast my guan yu clear was 15:28 IGT

5 minutes faster

[astral walrus]

on 50 heat?

[devout terrace]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/497030174337007617.gif?size=96

[lone kernel]

Remap your reload on the rail to left stick. Cast to trigger is also an option

[astral walrus]

just use kbm

[lone kernel]

I use a controller w programmable back buttons one for cast the other is a flex (if rail it’ll be reload, special for guan yu, etc)

The idea being not needing to move my finger off dash strike

[devout terrace]

So true

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/905112852531150888/906697501854298152/catnod_fix2.gif

[twin thistle]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/825862916561305643/897874922360164433/Hades_10_13_2021_8_53_24_AM.png

[lone kernel]

Was it worth buying a $40 co troller for a $25 game?

[twin thistle]

my very not cursed bindings

[lone kernel]

yep

[twin thistle]

you dont need backbuttons tho just use the triggers and stuff

[devout terrace]

[astral walrus]

you don't move left and right?

up and left

sorry

[twin thistle]

i use the analog stick

[lone kernel]

You don’t need them, but they are def nice haha

[astral walrus]

oh right too actually

only down

[twin thistle]

there's both stick movement and d pad movement. i dont use the d pad keys

[astral walrus]

ok i get it

[lone kernel]

Beat hades without moving

[astral walrus]

ahaha definitely not

[lone kernel]

yes it was lol

And I’ll find a way to use it for botw2

I wanted to use it for smash, but i can’t give up the GameCube controller

[astral walrus]

ahaha there is some build for that i heard

based on revenge boons

and vengeful mood

[astral walrus]

why not just use kbm

hades is partly shooter anyway

[lone kernel]

Switch

[astral walrus]

shoot'em up

[lone kernel]

I am a console guy lol

Pc gaming is cool but plug it in and it works is the option I pick lol

None of these gpus that cost $69420 dollars

[astral walrus]

or beat' em up if playing fists

so many genres

good game

[lone kernel]

Yep lol

The weapon variety is great

I wish we had more weapons tho

Axe aspects of Thanatos, asterius and kratos

[astral walrus]

you don't need 69420$ pc to run hades though

[abstract shuttle]

Im starting to dislike cast in B (xbox controller) so thaaanks

[lone kernel]

Yeah I use the back button but left front shoulder button was my go to before my tryhard days

[astral walrus]

no kratos please

[lone kernel]

In that case you can move codex to R3

and should be gravy

[mint coral]

i only swap cast for the cast loading aspects

[lone kernel]

Fine, shaq

or Paul Bunyan

[astral walrus]

i'm not from north america

don't know who these people are

[quiet lily]

I'm in the minorty here, since I think the ||aspect of lucifer|| should have been an ||aspect of Ra|| instead. Considering ||the Christian religion is arguably already represented with Arthur, given the backdrop in that mythose..||

[lone kernel]

actually I’m into this

[lone kernel]

Shaq is a retired 7’1 basketball player and Paul Bunyan is a folk tale about a giant dude with a blue ox who made the Grand Canyon

https://tenor.com/view/shaq-big-dunk-basketball-chris-dudley-shaquille-o-neal-gif-13864249

[quiet lily]

||no mechanical change either, can still be a laser aspect too. There could have been a dialogue regarding Zagreus and him not knowing what birds are yet again in seeing the aspect of Ra, and learn about another god who takes a journey through the underworld every night, endlessly.||

[astral walrus]

arthur is more of a historic figure, no? whereas lucifer is from christian mythology

[quiet lily]

I was referring more to the backdrop of Arthur being tied to Christianity.

[lone kernel]

aspect of slifer the sky dragon and you got a deal

[quiet lily]

||that and the Zagreus Aspect for the Adamant Rail looks kind of like a falcon already, so it could have been seen as foreshadowing of another avian figure.||

[hasty onyx]

@high island your cast guide helped me a lot! even tho i didnt understand 100% because my game is in different language i did understand the essential

and it went super well

[high island]

Nice!

m glad it was helpful.

[astral walrus]

can't you change it to english?

[quiet lily]

That and I'm not a fan of how the lore behind that hidden aspect is spun like a son rebelling against his father, when that's not the case.

[hasty onyx]

ah i mean, i still dont feel like i need to, but i think eventually i will anyways, since voice acting is already in english and i barely read boon names in my language

[quiet lily]

And another change....

let us give nectar/ambrosia to the "good shade" in Elysium please.

If we can give Nectar to Bouldy, I don't see why not.

[astral walrus]

it'll be easier with english text i think, at least you'll know the names of boons in english

when you join discussions with other people especially

[hasty onyx]

yeah im really considering it

[full nexus]

[hasty onyx]

probably will do

i wanted to share this run

but steam print screen systtem is ass

[high island]

If you want to send the devs feedback, you can do that through their website: https://www.supergiantgames.com/contact/

[hasty onyx]

how do i get an image from steam ?

[hasty onyx]

thanks

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/841465300033077248/908084898592616498/64A61568DCF73F9E8A82DBDBAEA05A9CD0247111.png

ah there we go

finally

[quiet lily]

glad I'm not alone in thinking this.

[astral walrus]

ahahaha, aspecto de poseidon

[hasty onyx]

:V yeah

dont mind my 4 ress spent with 4 hp left lol

[calm zenith]

I think shades literally cant consume ambrosia

[hasty onyx]

they would probably just burn to oblivion if they could too

[calm zenith]

I dont have an immediate source but that seems right

It's not meant for them

Bouldy just reached apotheosis basically

So he gets them

I guess Sisyphus is a shade. Still no evidence that they can consume it.

[astral walrus]

Patroclus is a shade too, no? At least Achilles called him a shade once

[calm zenith]

Yeah

Achilles is a shade

[astral walrus]

Sisyphus, Eurydice

all of them really

[hasty onyx]

yeah but like he is in elysium right

[calm zenith]

There are ones with more like, memory to them

[astral walrus]

they're all dead

[hasty onyx]

and euridici was a nymph

[calm zenith]

Which gives them a human appearance

Hmm so Eurydice cooks with the stuff

[hasty onyx]

i think they can consume it just fine because the standard shade is a dead human

[calm zenith]

So maybe it just is consumable by shades

Yeah and I believe humans have drunk it in legend

[hasty onyx]

demigods

yes

[calm zenith]

Well regardless its obvious that it isnt like a social norm to give shades that stuff

[astral walrus]

shades are basically souls of dead people, no?

[calm zenith]

Yeah

[astral walrus]

zag is demigod

or god

[hasty onyx]

yeah but depends on the place they go to

[hasty onyx]

a lesser god"

or a god, its whatever in that regard, but yeah a god

[calm zenith]

Demigod is a rough category. Persephone is one because her father was human iirc.

[astral walrus]

tier 2 god?

[calm zenith]

Zagreus just isnt a worshipped god

No clout

[hasty onyx]

yeah that sounds more precise

[calm zenith]

There have been worshippers of Persephone

[hasty onyx]

kinda"

i guess

[calm zenith]

Of Zagreus? Doubt it

And if they did it would just be an alternative to Hermes

Whose worship is much much older

[hasty onyx]

wdym

[calm zenith]

Hermes worship is really old. There are ancient Herms which are like guiding stones for pathing

With a depiction of him basically on a phallic column

[astral walrus]

why, Zagreus is the god of blood if i remember correctly

[calm zenith]

You could also just use stones iirc

Because his role is vague

That's a lot of the game's story

[hasty onyx]

oh ok i get it now

[astral walrus]

may you go with the swiftness of Hermes

[calm zenith]

For example the only stories I know of him besides the game, is him bringing people from Hades to the surface

Basically the opposite of what Hermes would do

But with swiftness

Reliability

So maybe if you had a family member who died, you would become devote to Zagreus

After serving Hermes or whatever

[hasty onyx]

hmmm thats interesting

[calm zenith]

But I still doubt he had any major worship

[hasty onyx]

oh im reading here

and damn i actually did not know that Zagreus was a real figure

like, in myths

i found many different sources many different versions of his story and origin

but thats cool

[short timber]

Yeah, the devs picked him specifically because he was pretty unknown

When people don’t have any idea of who they are in their heads it makes it easier to suit a character towards what you need

[calm zenith]

He also has an interesting story

[devout terrace]

he's pretty underrepresented in the general greek myths

[lone kernel]

In some versions he’s Dionysus

[whole comet]

i thought he was picked because he has the reborn theme in greek myth, which suits him for the gameplay reasonb

[short timber]

Rebirth is a trait of Dionysus

So technically Zareus shares it in some interpretations

But I’m pretty sure it’s

• lack of a defined character
• son of hades is a good start for a plot
• hell is a good setting

[tropic arrow]

Does Zagreus think himself as the god of blood?

Because when Achilles said it, he was unwilling to admit it

But when Hades said something like “you’re nothing“ in a run intro scene, he replied with “I’m the god of blood”

[whole comet]

that was Achilles's speculation anyway in the game

[calm zenith]

I think those lines are just later realizations

I didnt get it until way after that

[whole comet]

real greek myth, Zeus might even be Zag's father

[astral walrus]

blood and wine, huh, similar things

[whole comet]

god of red wine lol

[lone kernel]

theres literally a plotline referencing this

https://www.reddit.com/r/HadesTheGame/comments/krf7je/just_learned_dionysus_prank_is_historically/

(minor spoilers for random dionysus midgame dialogue)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYJPMICSPZ8 around 1:35 in the video

[whole comet]

in greek myth, it's all speculation, so in game, they treat it like a joke

[whole comet]

Well of Charon + hourglass is quite good

if u reroll, u could get up to 6 buff for 10 turns

if u do it at Styx and got a well in tunnel, lots of buff b4 Hades 😄

[calm zenith]

Yeah it's good for like stygian cast builds

To get long lasting bonus casts or braids

It should also effect the Pat luxury items

The ones with durations

Sadly that isnt usually that useful I think

Because Styx rapidly eats up duration

You want a well on your last door

If you get one on your last door, the damage buff items will last long enough

[strong ridge]

i think hourglass would give styx dark maybe 1 styx reward room insurance. depending when u get pat

[calm zenith]

Yeah

I dont do SD because I find I am more likely to die twice at the end

Than once beforehand

And I dont do enough heat to need the hp recovery

You can get more dds with sd but it requires some specific things

[mint coral]

hourglass doesnt affect patty items

[calm zenith]

Really? Sad

It was actually my first maxed keepsake

Because charon is always there

So I get nectar in a run, just give it to him

[strong ridge]

it does say well of charon

[mint coral]

patty items arent from a well tho

[strong ridge]

yep

[whole comet]

if u have 2 room Styx, i think the well after Thessus tends to last til Hades

if u use hourglass

[hasty onyx]

zagreus is to son of hades as lord vaders apprentice is to vader himself (the star wars force unleashed games)

[short timber]

good point

[atomic relic]

what boons do i want for rama aspect? i just noticed i need a bow clear with it but im not familiar with it at all

[raw herald]

Hammers are the most important, you want either twin shot or triple shot

Then ideally point blank shot or perfect shot as a second hammer

[calm zenith]

I like twin shot and point blank shot

[atomic relic]

and whats the gameplay loop of that aspect?

like how do i want to use it

[calm zenith]

You want a curse on special

Like hangover

[raw herald]

Tag all enemies with the special, then try and line them up and dash strike power shot them

[calm zenith]

Something with high percentage damage on attack

[devout terrace]

Special-powershot-cast-repeat

[raw herald]

The timing can be tough

[calm zenith]

Usually aphro or artemis

[raw herald]

Hunter dash as well

[devout terrace]

Worth starting hunter dash

[calm zenith]

Tag then shoot as much as you need to, in order to kill everything

[atomic relic]

got it

[calm zenith]

Sometimes that's a powershot

Yeah

[atomic relic]

ill give it a shot then

ty all

[calm zenith]

Like Artemis into Dionysus keepsakes works

[raw herald]

Zeus, ares and Dionysus are decent supplementary damage for the special

[atomic relic]

gonna go ahead and also max out rama since i have the blood

and im not saving for anything

[calm zenith]

It's a really good aspect

[raw herald]

Demeter too if you get killing freeze

[devout terrace]

Hammers are twin>triple>perfect>point blank>chain>everything else

[calm zenith]

Relentless can be good for some stuff

For example you can get really high dps with special only

And it's very safe

[raw herald]

Yeah I actually quite like relentless especially with DC2

[calm zenith]

That's like all Zeus on special

[raw herald]

Really helps get the debuff spread around

[calm zenith]

Relentless does less tbh

Relentless helps with like Demeter on special

[twin thistle]

do special only rama for the memes https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/725021639506526249/905687554228101120/Hades_11_3_2021_10_17_40_PM.png

[calm zenith]

Yeah you want relentless for special only anyway

[raw herald]

Saddest gods pride I’ve ever seen

[twin thistle]

[calm zenith]

Because it's the only hammer that increases dps

Sometimes you equip pride and get 3 rolls of common only

[raw herald]

Imagine concentrated volley Rama

[calm zenith]

And just quit the game

There's video of it

Rama also really benefits from bonus dashes/hyper dash

[devout terrace]

[calm zenith]

But I like starting with relentless

Because its still ranged

Like hyper sprint + rush delivery + 3 dashes might be the ideal Hermes rolls

[atomic relic]

holy wow this bow aspect is cool

now im liking the bow lmao

[mint coral]

rama is cool

[atomic relic]

arthur sword is still my most heat weapon but bow is nice

lol

[twin thistle]

rama is one of the best for pushing high heat

[atomic relic]

woohoo bond forged with ares

[calm zenith]

Ares special?

Doom is honestly a fine curse if you get impending

For privileged status at least. You can do doom rama special only though

You just really want dire

[last veldt]

So, hypothetically, if you started fresh file and never unlocked DDs in the mirror, would Athena never offer them (since she replenishes ones you have)?

And would you ever be able to get the Chaos legendary for one (my guess is yes)?

[calm zenith]

Unsure. I think they would still.

And it would work

You would just gain 1 from Athena

I'd say like, as a new player, you'd want 1 DD per Hades phase

That gives lots of room for mistakes

[lone kernel]

And if you finish with 3 dds you can feel good about your skills

[atomic relic]

ive done it once

felt so good

[lone kernel]

based

[buoyant valley]

does aspect of dem count as bonus hits or just boost the damage?
like if I got dio on special, would it apply multiple stacks or just one

[twin thistle]

its multiple hits so yeah it works with dio

[buoyant valley]

nice

[twin thistle]

it doesnt work with zeus special though since zeus special can only deal damage once every 0.2 seconds

[buoyant valley]

I asked because it looks like it’s only one instance of damage

[twin thistle]

yeah multiple hits in a short period of time will appear as one damage number

[calm zenith]

It works really well with Artemis on special because you get what, 6 rolls of 20% crit?

It's even a little overkill

Ohh what about a Deadly Reversal build with Demeter?

Try to get all hits to crit on dad

I think that would just be overkill

[fast willow]

braids are a scam

[calm zenith]

Are they

[fast willow]

they stop existing once you do a cast build

but then when you play eris they're all you get

[calm zenith]

Ive gotten lots in cast builds

Not leaning into cast eris

Clockets + Zeus cast to finish from a distance

[fast willow]

yeah that's my point

the game only shows me braids when they're useless to me

but not when I'm desperately rerolling Styx Charon wells

[chrome wharf]

it's called the desire sensor

[lone kernel]

All those touch of Styx in Tartarus yeehaw

The elysium lobby determines if I hourglass or acorn

[tidal scarab]

How do I get the bond thing with Gods again? I have it with Ares, but I totally forgot how I got it.

[atomic relic]

lets gooo i just got friendzoned by dusa

[calm zenith]

Finally got sub 15

On a 4 sack

[chrome yoke]

they have seperate requirements

you give them nectar at first though

[lapis inlet]

What's considered an average run for top speedrunners? Like sub 8, sub 10? Obviously the top runs need good RNG but what kind of times show you're ready for a sub 7 run if the stars align?

[high island]

Average time doesn't really work too well because speedrunners will reset pretty early.

If the run isn't going well.

[lapis inlet]

Right, I see

I guess my question is more then how much time is saved for them through RNG

Wheres the cutoff between skill and luck?

[stone surge]

OH GOD

WHAT IS THIS TINY VERMIN

WHY IS IT SO STRONG

[high island]

Sub 7 you're probably skipping most of Elysium or get very good enemies.

[lapis inlet]

Yeah I figured so

[stone surge]

wait sheet is a swear?

k mb

holy moly

it nearly took away a death def

[lapis inlet]

My guess was that sub 9 is a repeatable run for a good speedrunner

Dunno if they could go faster or not

[high island]

Depends on the aspect anyway. You'll have more consistency with the speedrun modpack to guarantee a 2-sack, for example.

[fast willow]

tiny vermin strongest boss

[lapis inlet]

Ah I was assuming eris just because

[stone surge]

agreed

[high island]

With the speedrun modpack, I can get an average 7:40ish on Hera with not too many resets.

[stone surge]

also how many items from lounge do I need to purchase to get the prophecy completed

[lapis inlet]

Oh interesting

[high island]

And my PB is 7:00.

[stone surge]

cause i gots like 9 items and it still not done

[lapis inlet]

I might need to start trying hera more

[high island]

Well, Hera is the aspect I've played the most.

[lapis inlet]

I'm at 11m consistently right now on vanilla

Frustratingly close to sub 10 but not there yet

[fast willow]

I'd suggest you get the speedrun modpack

[lapis inlet]

Does it work on ps4 though

[fast willow]

getting sack'd out of PB feelsbad

[lapis inlet]

Yeah ngl that is annoying af

I had a 10:30 4 sack once

Was pretty salty

[fast willow]

uhh I'm not sure since I have it on PC

[lapis inlet]

Never tried modding anything on PS tbh

[high island]

Yeah, if you want to get sub 7 on Eris, your worst times with a 5-sack where a lot of things go wrong should still be sub 12 at least, and most of your runs should be sub 10 pretty easily.

Vanilla has a lot of variance if you finish every run.

The modpack doesn't work on PS, no.

[lapis inlet]

Yeah thats kind of what I figured

[fast willow]

for a sub 7 or 8 run what should be the time when you finish asphodel?

[lapis inlet]

I'm probably a minute or two off through user error right now

Just got to narrow down where I'm losing time

[high island]

Sub 4 out of Asphodel.

But you'd need a reeeeally lucky Elysium for sub 7 from there.

[brisk trail]

Wish we had a scythe that would be so cool :(

[high island]

With Hera I aim for 4:10 Asphodel if I want sub 8. Depends a bit on the aspect.

But 4m is a good target.

The better you are, the more leeway you have.

[lapis inlet]

Yeah not far off

I need to get better at sneak and witches

Champions fight is pretty solid, hades is OK, might be a bit slow on lernie+furies

[fast willow]

champions is often my fastest boss, is that normal?

and hades the slowest

[lapis inlet]

I'm normally just under 5m for asphodel

Same for me, champs around 15s or so usually

[high island]

I only know my Hades fight times tbh, and only because the autolivesplit times that fight.

[lapis inlet]

I think my best hades was around 45s

Maybe a hair faster

[fast willow]

I know champions because with eris I usually finish that fight in like 20 sec, and I know hades

[lapis inlet]

Yeah, meg/ bomb to shield, then go nuts

[sterile light]

it's been a while

[high island]

No clue about my Eris boss times, I don't really play Eris much.

My PB with Rail is only 8:38.

[lapis inlet]

I think that time is coming soon

Do you go with FO1 or 2?

[high island]

Which is... 231st for Eris times on the leaderboard.

FO2.

[lapis inlet]

Was curious if there's an actual difference, feels like it but most guides only mention going for 1

[high island]

EM2 FO2.

[lapis inlet]

Yeah thats what I'm running

[high island]

And TD if you're doing RTA.

[lapis inlet]

I've been running that and TD3 just to keep getting heat rewards

[high island]

FO2 speeds up spawn times and Jolted procs.

[lapis inlet]

Yeah I thought it felt quicker for sure

[high island]

Well, TD turns off survival rooms in Tartarus, so take that off if you're going for IGT.

[lapis inlet]

Yeah I will soon, might switch to pure heatruns for a bit to get more weapons up

[high island]

Are there impure heat runs?

[mystic pivot]

Not sure if this belongs in #h1-tech-support, but when using the Shady companion to call forth Bouldy as a finishing move again a boss like Lernie, it doesn’t say

“Lernie VanSquished”

And to me, that game breaking. 😂

[high island]

lol

[devout terrace]

[fast willow]

theres a leaderboard for just eris?

[devout terrace]

You can sort by aspect

On speedrun.com

[high island]

Yeah that.

[devout terrace]

The eris leaderboard would be 1.0

[high island]

True lol.

[astral walrus]

dammit why can't i get sub 12 with eris

i got it with demeter almost casually, while i haven't really been playing it much

and i play the living sh*t out of Eris and still can't get it done

maybe fists should be my favorite weapon, but then again i don't really like the way it feels to play them

[devout terrace]

Kbm?

[astral walrus]

yes

[devout terrace]

aim at cursor off on rail

https://www.hades-guides.ovh/index.php/eris-rail-guide/

And this guide

Theres your sub 12

Easily

Aim at cursor off is absolutely crucial on eris

Literally aims for you

[astral walrus]

this i've read like 3 times already

[astral walrus]

but this...

maybe that's the thing that will help me

aim at cursor off then

[devout terrace]

I think it took my pb with rail from 9;12 to 8:15 like a few months ago when I turned it off

Its so big

You just focus on reloading and dashing basically

[astral walrus]

1 minute difference, idk

doesn't seem big

my pb is 13:20

[devout terrace]

Gets bigger the shorter your time is

The jump is much bigger than 13-12

It becomes a lot harder to pb at that point

ex eris wr was 5:57 by Lili and he didnt use aim at cursor if you need more convincing

[astral walrus]

oh i'm convinced enough

[devout terrace]

Current eris pb is 7;10 with the barge

[astral walrus]

also it just feels good to use the rail, to make swiss cheese out of your enemies and bombard them with freaking rockets, it's so powerful and it feels that way too

and with clockets...

with clockets you basically have a nuclear weapon in your hands

and compare to fists

glorified boxing gloves

it feels goofy to play them

i mean how in the world stupid boxing gloves can do more damage than a rocket launcher

[astral walrus]

also, that is some great guide

i wish there were more like that one

i wonder who's author

[fast willow]

yes this is the biggest thing @astral walrus

my eris PB went from 11:50 to something like 9:50 the first time i used aim at cursor off

it makes a huge difference

[astral walrus]

damn

thanks for telling me that guys, imma try it asap

[devout terrace]

There are

I can link beowulf, hera and achilles guides

[devout terrace]

Its Lili, former wr holder, first ever sub 6

(you can also join the speedrunning discord, its linked in #self-promotion )

[astral walrus]

i guess i am trying to speedrun, but i'm not exactly there yet

so it's early to join speedrunning server

[astral walrus]

achilles i think i've seen

by 185, right?

[gray apex]

You can get a lot of feedback to actually improve

[astral walrus]

beowulf and hera please link

[devout terrace]

We have a lot of resources that can help you

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1IHgXN-_iYn3G2BWUJ05GSi0Qm4j4FsE0yPNM3stKpOE/edit

[gray apex]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1H7EOP28oyu6t8KrBEfnrN-dQc6H_ssvAyYz3C1O2JOI/edit?usp=sharing

[astral walrus]

google docs, but ok we have what we have

[devout terrace]

Where else would it be

It would hit the message limit on discord

[brisk trail]

Lest you have nitro

[astral walrus]

wherever Eris guide is

[devout terrace]

Site's inactive for the most part

Since Lili isnt active anymore

[astral walrus]

why? what happened?

is he okay?

[devout terrace]

IRL

He's fine

[astral walrus]

send him my regards please

[full nexus]

imperdable as ever

[brisk trail]

I've never taken crush shot on beowulf suprisingly

I should try that

[gray apex]

Me neither

I’ve taken passion flare a lot tho

[devout terrace]

lmao

[gray apex]

Lol

[astral walrus]

so should i turn off attack at cursor only on rail or any other weapon could benefit from it?

i've tried it once on bow and shield

it was terrible

also on achilles spear

[fast willow]

personally only use it for rail

[astral walrus]

ok then

[gray apex]

Fists are optional

Rest is pretty bad

[astral walrus]

yeah with demeter fists actually i would like to try it out too, since sometimes i miss with my giga cutter

but of course it's not always an issue of aim

without kinetic launcher it's an issue of range

ah to hell with them fists, not really wanna play them

[brisk trail]

The first step to salvation

[astral walrus]

agree

[fast willow]

https://imgur.com/a/gq7nW5i

shouldnt this not happen?

like poseidon should show up on a non erebus gate right?

because in the case that i had less than 5 heat i wouldnt be able to take his boon even though ive got the keepsake on?

[gray apex]

That's fine

He technically appeared on a door

If you skip it he'll show up again

[slim cove]

Anything else to do after completing all the prophecies?

[high island]

Maybe it was an oversight and not intended, but that can happen, yeah. Super rare occurence, though.

[lone kernel]

Theoretically if @fast willow took the Erebus gate and lost would the Poseidon keepsake then expire?

[high island]

Not sure tbh.

[fast willow]

unfortunately i didnt think to test that

so i guess we'll never know

[devout terrace]

it would

[shadow quarry]

im sad kuz i have zeus' special on the aimbot bow and the lightning only hits once

[gray apex]

lol

Get double strike

[twin thistle]

you need to angle it funny for multiple hits

[shadow quarry]

i've taken every opportunity to get poseidon instead

and

nope

[twin thistle]

yeah kinda need double strike and jolted to make it decent

[shadow quarry]

even got it to heroic from that one demeter boon

[twin thistle]

if you have demeter just get cold fusion lol

[shadow quarry]

i didnt take jolted because i wanted to change it out

[gray apex]

Yea id rather have Poseidon and like Sea storm instead

[devout terrace]

"aim bot bow"

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/523766637757726722/835126879341772810/bouldypet.gif

[shadow quarry]

i have sea storm and its useless kuz i have only kb dash

[gray apex]

Technically true

[devout terrace]

[twin thistle]

boon replacements have a really tiny chance

[shadow quarry]

1 zeus opportunity, no rerolls, no demeter boons that matter

sold my cold strike

[twin thistle]

so what youre saying is you couldve gotten all the prereqs for cold fusion

but just skipped them all

[shadow quarry]

i do infact have a 300 damage drunk amogus cast

with scinlatinfg feast

[devout terrace]

scinlatinfg

[signal aspen]

pog

[shadow quarry]

scingin g aqhg

[lone kernel]

Jolted is what makes zeus good lol

[devout terrace]

@gray apex https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/523774570394681344/842470569081176114/empowered_bouldy.png

empowered rock

[brisk trail]

Biblically accurate bouldy

[devout terrace]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/835125168341778463.gif?v=1

spheredy my beloved

[high island]

@devout terrace you could change it to "let's bouldying gooooo" for the PG13 version.

Or something.

[devout terrace]

why do you care anyway

[high island]

Wdym?

m more curious why you have an issue with what I said.

[oak gull]

is blizzard shot worth the trouble?

[shadow quarry]

ok why cant i unlock the gun hidden aspect i upgraded ares twice

[oak gull]

I only got it this once because I needed it to complete the list, but I don't really like it.

[high island]

Blizzard Shot builds can be powerful, yeah.

You'd probably want Stygian Soul for it and try to get extra bloodstones from Master Chaos and from Wells of Charon.

And then also maybe Auto Reload from Lord Hermes, so you can cast a lot of Blizzard Shots.

[shadow quarry]

do i need to unlock the other aspect too?

[high island]

Requirements for all the hidden aspects are pinned in #h1-story-discussion if you haven't looked there yet.

[shadow quarry]

i read it on the wiki

it's not showing up

i have gyuan yu

[high island]

Oh, you were saying you upgraded Eris twice.

[shadow quarry]

i upgraded eris twice

[high island]

That's only 3 Titan Blood. You need to spend 5.

[shadow quarry]

then i upgraded it twice

kuz i remember spending 6 on it

by getting it in the first place

[high island]

Oh, you mean it's Lv.3 now? Yeah, that's 6.

[shadow quarry]

it costs 4 to upgrade rn

[high island]

Should just be dialogue RNG from there.

[shadow quarry]

dam

[twin thistle]

has zeus commented on the rail yet

[high island]

Lord Zeus has a lot of dialogue to go through about Lady Demeter etc. Not sure which lines have priority over what.

[shadow quarry]

yep

what should i spend my 13 titan blood on

i think i want all hidden aspects

but idk

i need bow and gloves' secret aspect

[high island]

Just whatever you like playing.

[shadow quarry]

i like playing just anything.

exept basic bow

yk, anything that is thrash dps

[twin thistle]

zag bow aint trash dps

[high island]

Hera has amazing DPS.

[shadow quarry]

atleast base autoaim bow is

[high island]

If you're enjoying Eris, just bring that to Lv.5.

[shadow quarry]

i actually dont really like eris

kinda cringe ngl

but gun is fun

[twin thistle]

lvl 1 chiron is pretty meh outside of hangover and specific hammers

[shadow quarry]

yea

[twin thistle]

eris is just better zag rail

[shadow quarry]

got the +4 special

wait shouldnt i just get the other secret ones

[high island]

Up to you.

You'll get enough Titan Blood to get everything eventually. The journey there is up to you.

[shadow quarry]

finally got it

[shadow quarry]

i have enough rn

whenever i need to reset i remove my DD and health and use lv 1 gyuan yu

what are the most broken aspects

[brisk trail]

eris, hestia, beowulf, zeus, rama, achilles

[spare tiger]

Personally I'd knock out Achilles and Rama first

[brisk trail]

theres more but they are from the top of my head

[high island]

Hera, at least until very high heats.

[brisk trail]

What does the title Made Friends Along the Way imply?

[raw herald]

Past like 9 heat yeah

[raw herald]

Story rooms I think? 2 of them

[brisk trail]

Ah k

[tribal veldt]

Anyone gotten this weird thing where the detonation (green ring) from the hades fight occured in elysium vs theseus?

[twin thistle]

that's one of their moves. theseus makes asterius charge at his shield and it sends the shockwave

[tribal veldt]

oh what

[tribal veldt]

i'm 74 hours in and this is the first time i'm seeing it

[high island]

All 3.

[brisk trail]

Yeah it occurs after their friendship arc

[high island]

You can find all the run clear messages and their requirements on the wiki. https://hades.fandom.com/wiki/Run_Clear_Messages

[tribal veldt]

ah yeah i just got through that part

thank you!

just kinda wild bc i thought it was a hades exclusive move or smth

[brisk trail]

[high island]

Yeah, they're gonna have that move from now on.

[rapid agate]

https://imgur.com/ZE656Qz

i was being pretty bad through the whole run, but this got my confidence back up

Whew!

that was a fun run

very unoptimal

very very unoptimal

but it got the job done

[tribal veldt]

I had one similar, I was on guan yu and could use artemis' call 3 times and the boss would still be alive :')

[rapid agate]

did

did i just get a scene with meg

with almost no dialogue

but that implied what had happened before

[atomic relic]

had to take off heightened security cause jesus the green urns at hades were making me furious

atleast i think that affects those

[twin thistle]

hs isnt needed at your heat amounts yeah

[atomic relic]

yeah even with arthur elysium and hades urns were kicking my ass

[gray apex]

its fun

[atomic relic]

i also toned down jury summons

too many enemies and no hammer for larger arthur zone

cuz rng bad

[twin thistle]

get rid of cp

[tribal veldt]

i initially thought heightened security was good to take LOL

never again

[atomic relic]

noe

[twin thistle]

yes

[atomic relic]

i might bt so far its not doing too bad

i still got heat 17-20 to deal with it on so i might mod it a bit in those

all depends

[twin thistle]

if you turn off cp2 you can easily do td2

or td3

[atomic relic]

if i get caught lackin ill give it a shot

[brisk trail]

cp really sucks ye

its so much more boss health and you cant kill enemies fast

[twin thistle]

30 extra enemy health is a lot

[brisk trail]

which makes you take more hits

[twin thistle]

also makes it harder to hit breakpoints

some enemies it can double the number the hits it takes if it makes you barely not oneshot them

its far worse than js especially on arthur due to its big swings

[atomic relic]

if i fail this 17 run ill swap em out

i can alrdy feel the lack of HS making it so much better

i hate the lava in asphodel

especially on EM2 with the new platforms for hydra

[brisk trail]

just turn the lava off

[atomic relic]

ez fix

[mint coral]

arthur moment

[rancid cypress]

What programs did Supergiant use to make the art assets for the game?

not sure which team members to ask about it

[brisk trail]

blender i believe

for the 3d ones at least

there are actually some videos on the supergiant youtube channel

[tribal veldt]

im just realising this but

dionysus' thighs are so thicc

[calm zenith]

I mean that is what he was born from

Zeus' thigh

Zeus promised a human woman he would never lie to her. When she asked him to stay true to this and not lie about who he is, he showed her his godly form and she died while pregnant with Dionysus

Hit by a lightning bolt basically

Zeus took the fetus and implanted it into his thigh

[tribal veldt]

LOL

[calm zenith]

This also made Dionysus a full god

[tribal veldt]

do you know that branch of mythology about zeus' first wife

where athena was born from her rather than just his head

[calm zenith]

Oh Hera. Yeah

[tribal veldt]

the titan that he turned into a fly

not Hera no

[calm zenith]

I dont remember his first wife then

[tribal veldt]

basically there was this titan called Metis and there was a prophecy that her first son with zeus would be his downfall

so he freaked and tricked her

turned her into a fly and swallowed her

by then she was pregnant with Athena

[calm zenith]

Oh that

[tribal veldt]

yeah that one

[calm zenith]

That's one variation I've heard yeah

[tribal veldt]

yeah she made armor and weapons and athena bashed her way out with a bit of help

[calm zenith]

I read that Zeus split his head open with an axe

[tribal veldt]

Hephaestus helped in some variants

but yeah getting ur head hacked from the inside hurts even for a god

xd

[atomic relic]

managed to finish the 17 heat with cp2

ill turn it off and give it a shot soon im gonna eat

[twin thistle]

now turn it off and turn on td3 and 20 heat is gunna be easier than 17

[atomic relic]

fine fine fine

lemme get a snack first

ok so far i can see what you mean

took 3 minutes total for tartarus

[tribal veldt]

is dire misfortune or impending doom better?

if you're running doom chaos shield

[atomic relic]

holy christ i just melted asterius and theseus in less than a minute

what in the world

[twin thistle]

impending since if youre running doom chaos shield you want merciful end

[atomic relic]

4 minutes to movement skill gap hades

[twin thistle]

seems well on pace

btw if you time out you only take 5 dmg a sec so you can also go over

[atomic relic]

oh i thought it was insta death on time out

thats so much better then

[twin thistle]

yep. ive been like over a minute overtime on some runs lmao

[atomic relic]

done

2:47 left

[twin thistle]

ez

[astral walrus]

i wonder what is the fastest time for melting champions

is it under 10 seconds or so?

less maybe

[signal aspen]

i think i killed them in like 7 seconds

[astral walrus]

yeah, thought so

with what?

[signal aspen]

beowulf

[twin thistle]

beo prolly

[signal aspen]

i dont have a video of it but i have screenshots

#h1-discussion message

[astral walrus]

hand cannon

hand nuclear warhead

[signal aspen]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/725021639506526249/881248413398728754/Screenshot_433.png

build btw

minus the braid

[twin thistle]

holy chaos

[last veldt]

That's kinda bonkers

[astral walrus]

must have been a crazy damage

trippy flare without trippy flare

[calm zenith]

I've killed them pretty damn fast. Also depends on heat

It's much harder to just burst them on em3

I find crit builds do extremely well there

Hunters mark

And then like an enemy piercing or aoe effect

Like exploding + charged on spear

[plush eagle]

https://youtu.be/QwYANcXrJg8

I came across this today

Thought the discord might enjoy, hope it’s the right channel

I give the creator extra points for making an 8 bit House of Hades

[devout terrace]

4-5 seconds when using a route

my pb is 6.5 on a normal run

[bright dome]

Hey guys, i talked to Chaos while using the shield, however, when he mentioned it, he also said i was using another aspect (Zeus's btw). Does this still count for the hidden aspect dialogue or i'll have to use Zagreus's aspect and talk to him again?

[gray apex]

It should count I think, you can check the pinned message in #h1-story-discussion

[bright dome]

Hmmm i think it worked then. Thanks!

[serene estuary]

Hades is a great game. That is all

[atomic relic]

just hit 20heat on arthur sword and got all the bounties i could from it. first weapon to hit 20heat too, do i continue with it to 32 or do i go for the other weapons now lol

[gray apex]

Up to you really

[gray apex]

@hasty onyx Would consider swapping to Dark Foresight and Fated Persuasion on your mirror maybe death defiances aswell, Dark Foresight help you get more boons/gold/poms/health therefore stronger builds, and persuasion helps you get the right boons

[hasty onyx]

well, the intention of this setup was to "farm"

getting more keys gems and nectar from the chambers

because that 20% would interfere

[thorny mirage]

You really shouldn’t have to, though

[twin thistle]

tbh darkforesight will mean faster runs

meaning more resources in the end

chamber rewards are really pitiful compared to going for bosses

[hasty onyx]

not really for now at least, like its still the same timing pretty much

[whole comet]

when u say farm, do u mean just play at 0 heat?

[hasty onyx]

yeah

thats the mentality

[gray apex]

It’s fair ig

[whole comet]

a strong build can end a run in 15-20 min

[gray apex]

But yea chamber rewards aren’t too great

[hasty onyx]

ill try the reccomendations mike suggested tho

[twin thistle]

id at least use fated persuasion to reroll chaos into more darkness/gems buffs

[hasty onyx]

thats where im lingering, at least good enough for me, 20 - 26 ish minutes

[whole comet]

and that's why dark foresight is good

[hasty onyx]

thats smart, i actually dont have enough darkness to fully upgrade it tho, but soon will

[whole comet]

since it just gives u less gems/darkness rooms

but those rooms hardly matter vs the darkness/gems u got from bosses

[hasty onyx]

yeah

[whole comet]

that said

[hasty onyx]

bosses are the most indeed

[whole comet]

u could still go for the chests and Sis and well of charon for darkness/gems

[hasty onyx]

oh i do all the time yeah

[whole comet]

and again, stronger build means u prolly clear those chests faster

[hasty onyx]

fair point guys

ill try it differently tomorrow

thanks!

[whole comet]

u could always use poseidon keepsake btw

2nd-later for his sunken treasure

[hasty onyx]

oh yeah, i always go poseidon when i go poseidon aspect

for the flood shot, i just love it

so big chance ill be getting it

[whole comet]

no, i mean if u wanna get more darkness/gems

he's also a good choice

[hasty onyx]

yeah i gor ur point

got*

[molten sapphire]

hey so I was creating a spreadsheet to keep track of who needs nectar/ambrosia. Each individual character got a row where I'd write the nectar/ambrosia initially needed, the nectar/ambrosia spent so far, and the nectar/ambrosia initially needed minus the nectar/ambrosia spent so far. Anyways to my question, I've been researching charon because I can't find how much nectar/ambrosia he needs

oops sent that message by accident

one second

[thorny mirage]

kek

[molten sapphire]

there finished writing it, I know he needs 7 nectar and ambrosia but I don't know what the specific amount of nectar and ambrosia is

I tried looking on the wiki, but it only said that he had 7 hearts to unlock

so basically, does anybody know how to find how much nectar or ambrosia he needs specifically?

[whole comet]

lol i thought Charon is one of the most straight forward one

after u gift him to max and spent lots of gold to buy stuff

online said 10k on his shop, then you can unlock his heart

[molten sapphire]

yeah, I know that, but my question is what is the amount of nectar he needs and what is the amount of ambrosia he needs?

[whole comet]

6 nectars and 1 ambrosia,

[molten sapphire]

alright, not that I don't trust you, but since I'll need to do this for every character; where are you finding this info?

[whole comet]

lol u just look at his codex

and count the heart XD

[molten sapphire]

how can you tell which is nectar and which is ambrosia?

don't they all look just like hearts?

[whole comet]

but if u've been kept track of the game, u would know

[thorny mirage]

the one that’s locked is the ambrosia one iirc

[molten sapphire]

so basically if I open up a new profile and get the codex I should be able to check?

[whole comet]

and really, not sure why u assume i need to "find" the info

felt like that's something u would eventually unlock as u played

[molten sapphire]

creating a spreadsheet to keep track of every collectible

[whole comet]

there's only a few that has more specific requirements

like Hermes

codex would keep track of the locked heart

and those locked heart means they need ambrosia to fill

[molten sapphire]

yeah

[whole comet]

well, there's some exception

like Hades

dusa is also a bit different

[molten sapphire]

only problem with using the locked heart to see what is ambrosia and what is nectar is that with the new profile I can't actually see where the locked heart is because it's just a ... heart on most of the characters ;-;

[whole comet]

well i suppose that's not something people would wanna write down

but really, each heart b4 locked heart is one nectar

[molten sapphire]

yeah, alright well I don't think there's any easy solution to this short of actually writing down how much nectar each character specifically needs, so thanks for your help

[whole comet]

so just look at the codex and their hearts

i did think the hardest part is to open a spreadsheet and actually write things down lol

but really, if you char has a locked heart

all the previous hearts are all nectars

so should be easy to count if u start from a new file

[molten sapphire]

unfortunately on a new profile the hearts would all be the ... hearts where you can't see the full meter

[whole comet]

it just means u gotta work from scatch and refill their hearts

[molten sapphire]

yep

thanks for your help!

[whole comet]

which could be done quickly if u use mod i imagine?

[molten sapphire]

probably

[whole comet]

i see the wiki does not specify Charon lol

is that why u're confused?

[molten sapphire]

yep

[plush eagle]

9:44.12 CHAMPIONS

LET’S GOOOOOO

GIVE ME THE 2 SACK BABY 🙏🏼

I keep forgetting I have Meg. I haven’t used her at all yet and I’m at Styx lol

Clouded judgement, billowing strength, or double strike?

[mint coral]

D.strike (zeus call right?)

[plush eagle]

Yes

It’s rare vs epic clouded judgment

But I’ll take strike

This is easily my fastest run

11:41.36 starting redacted

LET’S GOOOO

[calm zenith]

Nice

[plush eagle]

12:41.25 on Heat 9, Run #61

Gonna post it to #h1-victory-boasting in a moment

[twin thistle]

speeding

[spare tiger]

you can say his name here

[plush eagle]

I know I just sometimes call him redacted

[spare tiger]

most if not everyone here knows who lies beyond Styx

ahh

[plush eagle]

Rare Pressure points or rare true shot on Eres rail? Or common deadly flourish I guess but I was thinking Poseidon special

I already have zeus attack

[twin thistle]

deadly flourish better

[plush eagle]

Too late rip I took pressure points 😭

[twin thistle]

mep

better than true shot

[plush eagle]

Maybe I take epic tidal dash over rare flood shot and then try to get deadly flourish later

I’ll take arrowhead into asphodel

Wait flood shot is the cast not special anyway lmao

[calm zenith]

Yeah tidal dash is just better

Unless you need flood shot

[plush eagle]

I was thinking it was flood flourish or whatever it’s called

I will prob take flood shot or zeus cast down the road tho

But not my priority

Nice, I got deadly flourish and didn’t even need to wait until aspho

[calm zenith]

Pressure points can be solid once you get mark

Normally I find base pp too low for a lot of weapons

Rail is rapid enough for it to work though

Time your special around it too

Big damage

Especially if you get rockets

[hasty onyx]

man i aomost jinxed myself here, 0 ress from elysium until hades on heat 11 and actually managed to win, i was not trusting i would do it

[plucky crag]

holy i got the credits very good song they played

[hasty onyx]

yeah its amazing

[plucky crag]

im sad cuz i accidently stole chiron money and i lost 3 death defy but i got the card

[hasty onyx]

POG

when it happened to me i just died to the sneak shade coz i was low hp

same aa you

3 death defy

but win

[plucky crag]

i lost to the dusa boss cuz it was the chamber right after

[hasty onyx]

👌

this emotes are so good

[bright dome]

Guys, is the fish spawn rate lower on Chaos or something? I go there 1-2 times per run and still haven't found any fish

[ashen remnant]

Yes, fish in Chaos’ realm are pretty rare

If there’s a shop in the same room as the Chaos gate, check it for a Lure to guarantee a fish in there. That situation doesn’t happen super often but it helps

[rose dagger]

Whats the best cast to use for ||beowulf?||

[gentle mason]

You want to try for the Duo Mirage Shot because it is bugged and doubles the damage for Beowulf, which makes Flood Flare a good option (Its AOE effect is also nice.)

[twin thistle]

floodflare, passion, or trippy

yeah flood flare is the most used for speedrunning and heats where you dont have to take ap2/ri because of mirage