h2-builds-and-combat

[void idol]

don't think it would matter that much

[spare kite]

That's mostly for mutual destruction synergy no

And aphro/dem duo ig

[void idol]

i don't get the mutual destruction hype

just use grevious blow

[bleak night]

Mutual Destruction doesn't need Wounds is all

I don't play for it because I run Antler at the end all the time but it's quite good in general imo

[spare kite]

Typhon fight so good when I can only see 3 of his attacks

[bleak night]

Typhon's HP makes using blasts on him a lil sad

[spare kite]

In what way?

[bleak night]

HP sponge, so slow flat damage is a lil sadge

I suppose you can put it on Special and make it 400 every 2 secs, but that's something other flat damage sources easily supersede

[spare kite]

Ah yeah was thinking it on my dumb little antler brain

[neat nimbus]

What's the easiest build for 32 fear surface? I've been trying to do it for a while but i just can't 😭

[quick crescent]

started a blast run myself last night, heroic volcanic flourish in erebus ain't nothin' to sneeze at- my blast time is 3 seconds already

[bleak night]

try the funny Mel Blades build and see if it works

[bleak night]

Sounds fun, I kinda wanna do a Blast run for fun sometime

[quick crescent]

going for love handles, gonna see if i can get hestia and apollo on there too

[neat nimbus]

what is that? Never heard of it

[bleak night]

Zeus keepsake start and try to get Zeus Special in Epic or Heroic rarity if you can help it. From there, you can build almost anything, Demeter for Ring and Hephaestus for defensive boons, the other 6 for literally whatever, just look at the book for Duos you want with the gods available in Ephyra. Generally Aphro/Hera/Ares attack with Zeus on Special are preferable

[quick crescent]

blast is especially funny on moros because special and your attacks just FILL the room with blasts

[bleak night]

Toss your Special out on cooldown while attacking, don't Omega at all, and just prime yourself out because you don't use any MP anyway. When you find Zeus again, stack him. He has Static Shock, Double Strike, etc. They're all useful.

[quick crescent]

legitimately nasty damage, played up close with heartthrobs it can be absolutely disgusting

[bleak night]

this build in Surface runs is generally the strongest at 50f (or just the most consistent at winning), so it should dismantle 32f fairly easily

[quick crescent]

i wanna try some priming builds at some point soon :O i like omegas a lot but i think i'm missing out on chain lightning

[bleak night]

I'm sad when I try hearthrobs

they got so nerfed from how they used to be. Damage nerf, orb count nerf, duration nerf, etc

#h2-builds-and-combat message

[quick crescent]

master conductor and electric overload sounds great to me

[bleak night]

that's very good, yeah

[stable herald]

I do miss getting like a dozen heartthrobs and just being enveloped in love bombs

[bleak night]

And Anvil Ring is actually quite strong, so not a bad pick but if you go full Magickless then Tough Gain might be preferable so you can put Arctic Ring or something on Cast

[bleak night]

yeah, same. Apollo-Aphro duo doesn't hit as good with the 6 orb cap

[stable herald]

Do extra hearthrobs auto-detonate or anything when you exceed the cap, or do they just vanish?

[bleak night]

I think they just get replaced

[void idol]

moros with zeus special and hera attack preferably with arc flash and double strike, maybe even static shock if you have enough magic

o special then o attack spam until special runs out, then repeat

[void idol]

on an unrelated note, at what fear does it make sense to stop mindlessly damage racing bosses and actually dodge most attacks

[bleak night]

when you turn on Pain 2, Scars 3 and Frenzy 2

[void idol]

so basically 45 fear

[paper plover]

Ionic gain feels really awkward to use, especially because you have to press a button and not just run into it, is there ever a reason to use it?

[stable herald]

it fully restores your magick so it's pretty good for more magick-hungry builds. ofc with the downside that you have to take a break from hitting things to go and top off, but it's a relatively cheap full magick restore

[bleak night]

it's fine for aspects that use Omegas but don't instantly burn through them, like Pan, Persephone, Eos, etc

you can have a specific MP pool and not have to worry about much besides picking up the yellow ball like Born/Mortal Gain does eating into your bar

It's not the best, but it's an option for some aspects

[uneven palm]

It also means Zeus is in the pool and he’s cracked

[stable herald]

Is there a reliable way to upgrade Heph's attack/specials enough for the 2sec cooldown? Best I've done is getting Heroic from his keepsake (or Phial), and the Echo reward that doubles your Pom upgrades

[willow phoenix]

If you're running underworld you can reroll seed for heroic attack and reroll rooms for 3 poms pretty easily in erebus

If you have an low boon count you can also try some bridal glow rng for it

[indigo viper]

I did lately with Medea + attack hammer + a lot of Hera and Hefajstos for survival
Before I unsuccessful tried with Poseidon+Pan and Moros+Hera/Zeus.
Medea was cool because they didn't need a lot of mana.

[uneven palm]

Low/no magick aspects have an easier go yeah. Less to get online in Ephyra

[bleak night]

When you don't need to think about MP then you have less worries, yeah

[civic ocean]

I feel that’s less true now that Hecuba is out there but yeah

[paper plover]

If you're running a no magic build should you not take a gain boon to keep The Huntress active?

[willow phoenix]

That's what I usually do. Tough Gain and Glamour gain can still be useful though

And it might be worth getting a gain boon that doesn't activate automatically just to block the spot since cores get more priority in boon selection

[uneven palm]

Exactly. I’ll take Tough or Glamour for utility even with Huntress

And even with “no magick” builds sprinkling in Omegas is often a good idea anyway so a gain can be nice even if it’s just filling a core slot

Like with Mel skulls I can shoot 40 regular skulls at that crowd and that works or wipe em all out with an O cast and 1-2 O attacks

[analog ether]

Had some thoughts, wanted to see what people felt about it.

Fold Hestia's Legendary into her Dash boon (it's not really that great as a Legendary).

Make Incandescent Aura (her Duo with Hera) into her actual Legendary, with some modifications so that it feels a little stronger.

The new Duo is that Scorch is applied to all enemies affected by Hitch.

[willow phoenix]

The duo sounds op ngl

Incandescent Aura would need a lot of buffs to actually be legendary strong

If firewalk still has the same damage numbers it would be the best damage sprint by a long shot and there will be much more sprint only runs lol

IMO firewalk just needs to be detached from sprint mechanic. Just make it appear under Mel from any movement or just make it appear under Mel all the time based on time

It has a lot of damage, it's just being tied to sprint that holds it back

[round quartz]

Me when the "fire walk" requires you to "run" /j

[stable herald]

I think rebalancing Fire Walk to be Hestia's core sprint boon is the way to go yeah, and give it Heat Rush's projectile destruction

It occured to me though, what if all the Scorch boons could destroy projectiles? That would be a huge buff for Hestia but would it be too much?

[round quartz]

Scorch just needs faster base and max tick rate to be usable
It currently isn't as a main source of damage
You need a heroic pyro technique and even then it doesn't feel good against something with a lot of HP (Typhon)

[twilit tendon]

how would that work on the cast tho ?

[stable herald]

safe zone from projectiles lol

[twilit tendon]

there should be a boon that makes ennemies that have all their remaining HP under scorch just instantly die

[round quartz]

That's just mental block but more safe, somehow

[stable herald]

I'm mostly spitballing. I do think Hestia and Scorch needs some buffs but idk what the best buffs would be

[twilit tendon]

I mean yeah there's freezer burn

[round quartz]

Scorch heavily relying on freezer burn is not good

This could be a programming nightmare but having scorch deal damage faster based on how much you have applied

I think that's the most sensible buff and rewards the fast hitting weapons that scorch should work with

Just not sure if that is realistic coding wise as I am illiterate in that

Or at least have checkpoints of every 50 scorch applied/stacked, it deals damage whatever % faster

[stable herald]

yeah, either they need to make Scorch faster or give it some really good secondary effect. And a lot of Hestia's secondary boons are... not great

[spare kite]

Flash fry is great now that the scorch part was removed lol

[round quartz]

Flash fry is great, because it is just death explosion on kill
It is notably not a scorch required thing so you can throw it for great damage without sacrificing main damage because scorch bad

[spare kite]

That's what I mean, it used to need scorch for the explosion lol

[stable herald]

Scorch dealing all of its damage in a set timeframe would be huge, like whether you apply 50 Scorch or 500 Scorch it all gets applied within 2-3 seconds

[round quartz]

Yeah

[muted brook]

This sounds like it'd just be Wounds on crack tbh, not sure how I feel about that

[stable herald]

also true

[muted brook]

Whatever Scorch is changed to it needs to not just be Wounds Except Worse Or Better because Wounds is a lot cooler and Ares is just generally a better god

[round quartz]

You'd think scorch on coat is good because it can easily out scale the dot of scorch
The problem is it does no damage because coat base damage is awful and scorch doesn't do anything lmao
I have vow of grit max against Typhon
And I went into the fight at 19 minutes
The fight ended at 25 minutes

Good dodging practice I guess?

[muted brook]

I honestly think a lot of the mechanics that were given to Ares wrt. blood drops might've been better given to Scorch because the idea of a percent damage increase being contingent on constantly applying it and stacking it is pretty cool but too similar to what we have now

I just had the thought of giving Hestia an omega cast boon that immediately causes scorch to "blow up" and inflict all stacked damage at once but I'm not sure how strong that'd be, I rarely use Hestia as-is

DoT effects almost seem like a complete non-starter on a game where everything encourages to build for you going fast and killing fast

That's not to say Hestia can't be saved but it absolutely needs more easily-accessible things that allow you to blow shit up faster with the DoT applied

[willow phoenix]

If anything I wish scorch can spread like how fire can spread

[analog ether]

I mean, that's literally how Freezerburn (Hestia/Dem duo) works. It's just that the "blow up" is whenever you apply Freeze.

[formal pulsar]

some curses are better than others, and that's fine. gods are balanced by their entire kit not just their curse. and

issue with scorch is not boss clears imo because freezer burn is just sooo good at that. the issue is by its nature DOT effects are BAD at room clears. You want to focus on the most dangerous mobs to kill first, not apply some debuff and wait for them while they spin you to death and room clears become the main challenges once you go to higher fear. you would have to make scorch secondary effects super busted to make it compete.

[polar ravine]

maybe if scorch was super effective against armor and whatever that vow that makes it so you have to hit a enemy once or twice before damage can be dealt? or is that already a thing?

or even better. scorch ignores armor entirely (maybe as a duo or legendary boon)

[stable herald]

I don't think they'll ever let us ignore armor outright, esp since so many minibosses are helpless without it

but a boon that buffs scorch damage versus armor does make sense

[polar ravine]

which is why i think as a duo or legendary boon that could work. make it a significant investment and it doesnt help against the main bosses like chronos or typhon

[civic ocean]

Scorch is already fine as is it’s just poorly coded to take up the space that it would fit into, and there isn’t much reason to invest into it as a slow offensive option

The theory with scorch is that I can deal tons of damage to the enemies while focusing my cognitive load on dodging/avoiding damage. So I could play a timerless 32 and use scorch on a ranged attack and win that way while stacking my arcana deck towards survival and mobility

There’s even some options that are very clearly designed to help with that - Air Quality, for example, is a massive damage increase that lets you get away with taking no damage increases, and Burning Desire incentivizes going for bulk and mitigation because of weak and also makes your Scorch last longer

The problem is that the way scorch is coded and supported it is actually very bad with Air Quality compared to just taking Strength Furies and Origination, and more importantly there aren’t good arcana alternatives to those cards that raise your bulk so there’s no reason to do it.

TLDR change scorch from 14/6 a second to 8/10 a second and make Pyro Technique up the tick rate not the base damage and Scorch is fantastic

[polar ravine]

wait...air quality? the one that makes it so you can only deal min 30 damage?

I assumed that didnt work with DOT's

[civic ocean]

Yes, it changes scorch from 80 dps to 180 dps

[formal pulsar]

scorch does its damages split 6 times over 1s. so it deals that 80 dmg by doing 13.3333 every 1/6 second so air quality buffs that

[stable herald]

I do remember reading that Scorch doesn't work with certain damage buffs which is weird. But ultimately yeah I think Scorch itself only needs some minor tweaks, not a huge overhaul

[civic ocean]

So does most things fwiw just origination furies and strength puts Scorch at 27 or so damage a tick, so not worth it to go out of your way to get AQ just to get to 30

[polar ravine]

well another buff that can be locked behind a legendary or duo boon is what happens if you max out scorch on a enemy something could happen. either they blow up dealing a bunch of fire damage in a radius or instantly die. it encourages increasing the amount of scorch as fast as you can (and makes the Duo hest/aphro boon more powerful)

[stable herald]

yeah Air Quality lowkey feels like a trap considering how easy it is to get your chip damage over 30 in other ways

[nova nimbus]

i have only love in my heart also for frosty veneer

[formal pulsar]

it is not a lowkey trap. it is a trap

[polar ravine]

i mean there is something like that with demeter in hades 1 as a legendary

if i remember correctly

[civic ocean]

It was designed a long time ago back when Scorch was actually 40 dps and strength wasnt a good card

Its just that the way that they buffed Scorch made it incompatible with AQ

[formal pulsar]

do you know why is it under zeus anyway? if it was a big source of scorch damage increase back then. why is it not hestia infusion? it is so weird to give hestia the +power infusion when she doesn't even have %dmg attack boons

[civic ocean]

Many of Zeus’ boons deal very low damage at common

[stable herald]

I think the logic behind giving Hestia (and Heph) bonus damage infusions is specifically because their core boons don't actually increase base damage

[civic ocean]

Yeah the bigger problem with Hestia’s infusion is that there is literally no Fire element Attack/Special boon that scales with Power

So like AQ you kinda have to go around

[stable herald]

also true. Man... poor Hestia

[civic ocean]

Eh, she has super cracked secondaries

Flash Fry and Burnt Offering are wild

[olive tusk]

as far as secondaries go, Heph has got her there

[signal coral]

honestly hestia feels really bad to me

her and poseidon are gods I basically dont take ever unless I have very specific reasons

[stable herald]

I think if they just make Scorch suck less and rework a few of her worst boons (cough Heat Rush cough) she'll suddenly become really good. And it really might be as simple as buffing the tick rate

[polar ravine]

what does heat rush do?

[spare kite]

Delete projectiles while sprinting

[civic ocean]

Eats projectiles (though it feels worse vs Eris than it used to) and applies scorch per projectile eaten

[stable herald]

The scorch is applies is so low it's basically inconsequential

[civic ocean]

It also has strong synergy with AQ but it could be buffed or changed a lot

[stable herald]

burning up projectiles is great but it's still so much worse than every other sprint. like Demeter's sprint only slows down projectiles but the gust does way better damage

[polar ravine]

it never really felt that.......useful or maybe the radius of projectiles to be deleted was smaller than i expected

[civic ocean]

It is intended to be more defensive but the game is pretty finicky about when you are sprinting and when you are not

Like if you turn? Nope

[polar ravine]

maybe they can have it apply when dashing not just sprinting?

or was it already supposed to do that? i dont take it very often

[stable herald]

so that's why I keep catching strays from Eris

[polar ravine]

or maybe have it be a absorb and release type of dash? like the more projectiles it absorbs then releases a burst of fire damage when ending the sprint?

[civic ocean]

Tldr if you want hestia to be amazing:

change scorch from 13.3/6 to 8/10

change pyro technique from % based to adding 2 ticks +2 per rarity level (16/32/48/60 per rarity level), no longer pommable

Change Air Quality to Hestia’s infusion and require 5 fire

Boom instant banger

[muted brook]

The problem is more "the same, but worse" and less it just being better or worse

[viscid wave]

Yeah i was going to say - i dont think attack power actually impacts scorch!? Like ma'am ur own buff doesnt actually buff U!?

And also...weapon damage doesn't matter for scorch, right?

Eg: if you have the torches that do 20 weapon damage and inflict 50 scorch
Vs an axe that does like 150 weapon damage, and inflicts 50 scorch
-both of these hits afflict the exact same amount of scorch, correct?

I actually wonder how it'd feel if scorch converted all weapon damage to scorch/DOT damage. Bc then it'll start scaling with things like power, weapon damage increases, crit etc. Might make it too broken but eh.

[spare kite]

It'd be fun for freezer burn ig

Nothing else can convert massive scorch stacks into actual dmg

[formal pulsar]

i feel like if zeus can get his own boon to trigger blitz that used to be a duo, hestia might deserve one too. i dont like locking a core mechanic like that behind a duo boon

[polar ravine]

yeah having something happen when scorch surpasses the enemy's (non-boss) max health/% health would go a long way to making scorch more viable

[civic ocean]

Also have to consider on SGG side how difficult it is to actually implement all of these things just for one status

[formal pulsar]

thats true but also hestia is like one of the three fully new gods in game. her kit should be more exciting imo

[civic ocean]

Like it’s easy for me to say for example that Pyro Technique should just scale the amount of ticks but then what if someone puts 24 poms on it genius what then

Like what FPS does this game run at

[sage flame]

ur right we should make scorch tick rate based on fps

higher end pc = faster tick rate

[void idol]

does Athena keepsake work in thessaly as of right now

[signal coral]

yes

does not work on olympus, thats it

[void idol]

doesn't work in olympus though right

[pseudo sequoia]

works in every region besides olympus yea

[thin ridge]

Pay to win seems fair to me

[steady crater]

How do you deal with high fear root-stalker ?

Seems to me everytime i sprint full circle to avoid the projectiles i get smacked by the shadows

[sage flame]

dashing through or staying near it can help, if you stay near it it may do melee attacks instead of doing the projectile attack, however with shadows for some reason several roots just are inside the maint root stalker and will hit u there lol

[signal coral]

kill

sounds kind of stupid but root stalker hp is fairly low i think

[steady crater]

So you just take damage ?
I meant to ask if there was a no hit strat

[signal coral]

yeah i just hit it in melee range and when it looks like its doing anything at all i just reaction dash behind it

sometimes it works sometimes i get hit, but usually it dies quickly enough that its not an issue even if i get hit

[steady crater]

I don't understand why dashing heave is considered op
Is it really common to dash-strike ?

[timber pawn]

Specifically strong on Mel axe

[signal coral]

its best on mel aspect, less good on other aspects

[timber pawn]

Which gets 35 added power on normal and dash attacks

[signal coral]

mel aspect regular attacks are 75 -> 115 -> 195, though the last hit is super slow and even the first two hits aren't all that fast

dash attack hits for 75 and is fairly fast, with dashing heave it hits for 150 and is still fast

[viscid wave]

The fact that you can only scale the damage applied/max amount rather than being able to alter the per second ticks is....a choice

Like there's nothing (apart from freezer burn) as far as i know that will actually change the DPS scorch does, right? Like it's fixed. And that just...that dont feel good for a DOT build.

And i guess they want it to be different from hangover? But. Hm.

[steady crater]

Is hangover different ?

[silent crow]

global dmg boosts buff it

[past salmon]

All global damage boosts buff it

Strength/Orig etc

[timber pawn]

Tbf it is counterintuitive that increasing the application of scorch doesn't actually increase its damage

[viscid wave]

Iirc hangover would be, like, "your attack applies 5 damage per second" or "your special applies 10 damage per second" and poms/rarity would increase that number.

So you didn't apply 500 hangover and then watch it tick down, you applied stacks of X hangover per second up to a max number of stacks

[past salmon]

Idk if it is really counterintuitive
The game never tells you this is how it will work

[viscid wave]

Yes, this is what I was trying to get at. And that if you boost the rarity/level, you can just apply more scorch at once but the rate at which it ticks down/your DPS/clear-speed etc is going to stay exactly the same

[past salmon]

Tbf I think Scorch could use a buff but it doesn't need much of one

Like imo it's pretty good

[timber pawn]

I mean the game language is right, you're right, at no point does the game lie, but for every other status, when you pom the attack boon, damage goes up

[past salmon]

Trueing

Tbh I wish we kept old Patch fire extinguisher that was a fun boon

[timber pawn]

Which again, the game does communicate correctly, it's just the one outlier in the pattern

[timber pawn]

I forget, what'd that do?

[past salmon]

Consumed all scorch once you hit the threshold (like 150 or smth idk) and then did the damage immediately but reduced (depending on rarity and maybe poms? I think it could become increased damage)

[timber pawn]

I'm kinda into it tbh

[spare kite]

It got turned into freezer burn basically

Rip funerary pyre o7

[viscid wave]

And like this is a valid option it just...doesn't fully mesh very well with other mechanics or the kind of 'dash and go' feel of most playstyles and overall I just...I dont know what the benefit of scorch is? Like I don't know why I would choose that over something that just hits really hard.

Bc the benefit of hangover/DOT most of the time is it lets you kite, dash in, slap some on, go over to the other side of the room and slap it on enemies over there, and ping-pong back and forth as it ticked down. Which in theory scorch will still let you do except most of the time I end up standing there still hitting it/applying more scorch stacks but really just hitting it for weapon damage bc that's the only way to make it Die Faster

Im not articulating this well at all I feel. But for both being DOTs, scorch and hangover feel SO different just mechanically and one of 'em feels a hell of a lot better/more fun to play and use (at least me) than the other

[stable herald]

I get what you mean. Heck, Blitz is better for what you're talking about now that it auto-detonates after its timer runs out.

[neat pier]

Is divine dash still good n Hades 2?

[stable herald]

Short answer: yes. Long answer: Yessssss

[neat pier]

nice, I'll give it a try

[stable herald]

It isn't AS good because Melinoe isn't as good at dashing as Zagreus, but it's still exactly what you'd expect.

[viscid patrol]

If only I could get farther than the foot of Mount Olympus to meet Athena and get it.

But no, the most toxic god of war fan of all time has nothing better to do that ruin everything.

[sage flame]

just keepsake and then uhhh profit i suppose

[viscid patrol]

I've been trying to!
I've been using maxed-out Knucklebones to get past the biggest hater of nobody.
Then, I've had Nemisis' maxed-out Evil-Eye trained on the traitor on the Olympus side of the Rift.
But no.

The privilege to make the initial assent up Olympus is still being gate-kept by my biggest headache of the month.

[sage flame]

ah very understandable

[viscid wave]

How did you do this without getting spray bottled by the swear-bot!? It yells at me if i type 3 of one letter all together

[stable herald]

idk lol, I guess the bot understands the glory of Divine Dash

[paper plover]

Mel coat + romantic spark + stutter step is fun

Welcome back merciful end fists

[polar ravine]

wait why does that keepsake not work on olympus?

[formal pulsar]

its bugged. it works on every other region except olympus. it is a bug carried from the previous patch

[thin ridge]

Isn’t it just because of Athena already coming to Olympus

[formal pulsar]

athena is not guaranteed to appear naturally. it is only a chance

[spare kite]

Yeah she can still spawn naturally even with the keepsake equipped which results on your keepsake's rarity bonus not being used

[analog ether]

Did they make a shadow-change so that you can literally only encounter Athena once per run?

[spare kite]

It's always been like that

[junior trail]

its been since day 1 iirc

[analog ether]

Maybe I've only just noticed it recently, but there's been a couple times where I've encountered Athena naturally, and it locks out her keepsake if you haven't equipped it already.

Which I guess we wouldn't have been able TO see until Warsong.

[sinful moon]

How to build thanatos axe? Hitch through cast and aphro attack? Or hitch attack?

[thin ridge]

Aphro Hera or Apollo attack

I tend to build around omega attack, so weed killer and basically anything to buff that

[formal pulsar]

how does hearty appetite work with artemis keepsake? does it look at your actual max health or the 30hp?

[junior trail]

antler is an anti-synergy with hearty appetite, avoid using this keepsake if your build is around the duo

[distant root]

any meta builds/weapons?

[analog ether]

Question: the Total Eclipse Hex (the big moonshot) has a capstone upgrade called Excess, where it fires your Omega Cast in the target area immediately after the blast.

Would it also use all of your Omega Cast boons? Like, Meat Grinder or Geyser Spout?

[fair horizon]

guess so, it's just using your omega-cast (code-wise too), it's the simplest assumption

[polar ravine]

i would assume meat grinder

as the aspect of charon also activates those if you use your omega-special on the cast

[analog ether]

I think it does all of them. Though Geyser I think would be a little hard to spot, given that it would probably be instantaneous.

[willow phoenix]

The moon water o cast works with geyser spout

I'm curious whether the ocast upgrades would let you put multiple prom flare

[analog ether]

If so, you'd need a very expensive magic-use build. Cuz you'd still have to charge moon water between uses, and that's a minimum of 90 magic.

[willow phoenix]

I mean you can drop a prom flare with manual o cast before using moon water

[inland bobcat]

I seem to see a lot of people are really liking Trick Knives what’s the hype about?

[magic moss]

trick knives 👍

[inland bobcat]

Thank you for the detailed response king!

[timber pawn]

Making your dash attack also do 3 special knives is just really strong

Throw in an effect like blitz, or damage from poseidon or aphro or something, it's just Good

They also backstab when returning to you, if you're running mel daggers or otherwise have backstab enabled

[analog ether]

Ooof, just has a really nice, but REALLY expensive Momus build going.

55 magic per Omega Attack, 35 per Special, and I think the same per Cast?

[sage edge]

bro i was running a poseidon special pan dagger build, i had heroic lvl 6 special, arterial spray, and a pulled an apollo legendary from echo 😭

i beat chronos like in a minute

[analog ether]

I almost feel bad for him.

[timber pawn]

You stumbled on one of the meta speedrun builds, it is really strong

[sage edge]

shi i also had trick knives oml

[analog ether]

The only part of my build that I regret was not having a better gain.

[sage edge]

FR I HAD FLUID GAIN

barely did anything

[analog ether]

I had Tough Gain. It nearly killed me when I got to Typhon.

If I had Lucid Gain, it would've been perfect.

[sage edge]

i just had the chaos magik gian

gain

the one where i get like 10 magik every 1 second

[analog ether]

I had friggen everything.

Omega Attack? Ares attack, Weed Killer, and Apollo Legendary

Omega Special? Eh, just Apollo special and Legendary, but still overall good.

Omega Cast? Anvil Ring with Winners Circle, Local Climate, Arctic Gale, Prom Flare, Super Nova, Tropical Cyclone

All backed up by Cut Above with both Coffin Nail and Cutting Edge, Racing Thoughts, Mint Condition, and a maxxed out Total Eclipse giving me Invulnerability?

[sage edge]

😭

wait what was ur aspect

[analog ether]

Momus

[sage edge]

crazy build

[spiral kraken]

does freezer burn prevent me from applying more scorch while they're frozen? it feels like it does

[junior trail]

yes, for 2 sec (or more with cold storage)

[analog ether]

If I'd had a decent Lucid Gain instead of Tough Gain, I legit think I could've just sat in Typhon's face invulnerable the whole time.

[spiral kraken]

thanks, definitely not taking cold storage again 💀

[analog ether]

Hell, maybe Meat Grinder instead of Prom Flare and tried for Hazard Environ as well. Certainly had Ares show up enough times.

Friggen had his Legendary show up twice

[void idol]

does blitz have some sort of internal cooldown? like if I'm spamming o attacks with clean candle with blitz and arc flash will the blitz trigger on every alternate o attack?

[bleak night]

It does ye

[void idol]

yeah i noticed that so after how many seconds can it proc again

[solid copper]

Ok I saw somewhere that you can use att/spec of the black coat at the same time and I've been trying to do it unsuccessfully with and without auto-fire on. I play on mouse/keyboard and the people suggesting it seem to play on a controller. Can anyone clarify what needs to be done?

[void idol]

the attack is a two step combo, so click attack once then immediately special then attack again

[junior trail]

Auto-fire: Hold Special and spam Attack.
Without auto-fire: Use Special, then immediately follow up with Attack or Dash-Strike, as Special's animation can be canceled with these—just like the Staff's Special.

[void idol]

also use blitz on special for maximum efficiency

[bleak night]

a bit easier on mouse than controller imo, but try to dash-special-attack in quick succession since dash attacks are the most utilized part of Coat

you should fire missiles during the dash, before the dash attack comes out

[solid copper]

I see. I thought you could use missles without interrupting the attack 1-2 combo

[junior trail]

it used to be that way but its been partially patched in warsong update

[bleak night]

Harder to do now, most people just do missile-attack 1-attack 2

[void idol]

you can

[bleak night]

1-2 punch is rather quick anyway

I don't play a lot of Coat, so a good amount of the time my missiles just cancel my attacks

[junior trail]

you can with auto-fire, hold special and spam attack

[bleak night]

idk something about this weapon just needs a buff, I think they should prioritize the tracking on the missiles because it just goes everywhere

[void idol]

if you time it right with a good aphro attack you can blitz special then attack to trigger it, then repeat without interrupting attack combo

[bleak night]

it's just so unreliable a good amount of the time

[bleak night]

I need to get into the rhythm of it then yeah. I just like getting Launcher Frame for this reason

[void idol]

i feel like it's more of a beginner weapon for easy clears on low fear

[bleak night]

Probs, but it's just really bad as you make the game more difficult, which I am really sad about

missile builds need Shimmering or the clear speed is too slow, Exhaust Riser is 1/12 hammers, etc

[void idol]

yeah after 32 fear you need insane luck to clear typhon

without antler*

[bleak night]

Sometimes a coherent build is enough, but the power scaling being just completely locked behind hammers is a lil sad for it

[void idol]

i feel like it works a lot better in the underworld where there's more chaos gates and more boons in general

like 40f in the underworld is pretty manageable with coat but even 32 f in the surface somehow just feels worse even if you don't consider that bosses and enemies are harder

[bleak night]

Surface has more boons no? Only one of its regions is geared towards meta resources (Thessaly) while UW has 2 that are split up. Plus Surface lets you buy boons for cheaper off of shrines

All my runs, high or low fear, just stack more boons on Surface runs

Olympus feels like it has only about 2 meta resource rooms or so

[void idol]

no i just have horrible luck with ephyra and olympus

it's not the game's fault

[bleak night]

Fair, yeah. Also Summit guarantees you 2 major rewards that you can't skip, ig you can turbo stack them in Tartarus but you have to go out of your way for em

[void idol]

but also with debt on at Max level i cant afford to gamble on getting a good god's boons

[void idol]

but you also get more money by doing that and thus can buy more boons at final shop

plus i usually have like around ten boons while leaving Oceanus but i would be lucky to have even 7 on the surface

[bleak night]

All my surface runs have about 20-26 boons on em without Hex while the UW ones are usually capping at 19 or 20 without Hex upgrades

if I'm playing low fear, I somehow always get 2 pages of boons with barely upgraded Hex upstairs

I think random boons in bags is worth the take because a lot of people just force a new god in Olympus

[void idol]

how is it only 20 in the underworld

like even with denial on its like 20-25 usually

[bleak night]

Onion + Debt 2 + taking every quick room usually to save on timer

[void idol]

fields have like 7 or so boons usually with echo

[bleak night]

idk a lot of the time fields is just HP/MP/Coins/Poms

I get maybe 4 boons + hammer

[void idol]

that's wild

[bleak night]

Sometimes people just end their runs with 13-17 boons total

[void idol]

but also during first patch i had a mel axe run with literally only aphro attack if you don't count hex, hammers, or echo and narcissus

[bleak night]

I think they made the major to minor reward ratio better since then, used to be rly bad

[void idol]

i didn't even have purging wells and wasn't even trying to avoid boons that much

[void idol]

agreed

[bleak night]

surface needs purging wells

good chance it's just a brand new thing instead of them, though.

[fading shore]

i need help with medea :D

what is best like "combo"

is it just attack special attack special?

[surreal hazel]

Hermes style purging shrine, give boon recieve a Mana tonic in 5 encounters, what a deal!

[spare kite]

Yeah

Sometimes while enemies are spawning you can guesstimate if loading more is worth

Or for something like eris's last phase

[fading shore]

its sounds funny but i think medea 50f will take a while

i havent play a lot of medea

most of my medea runs was in patch 1 xd

[spare kite]

It has just gotten better dw

[fading shore]

then persephone was reworked and i stopped playing medea

i know but playstyle is hard for me

u are constantly dashing around

very easy to take random dmg

[tall notch]

I remember when we had this high fear leaderboard website and I wasn't able to upload a run because I had very few boons and the google form assumed a minimum

[bleak night]

Cy still runs that, just repurposed into the build website people use a lot now since a leaderboard for EA isn't that needed

[tall notch]

I've kind of stopped using that after Mini started working on his sheet

When I was spamming runs to get a 50 on every aspect, the form just seemed like a bit too much work

[dusky thicket]

Is there a detailed list of Vow of Shadow changes anywhere?

[bleak night]

Nope, but I think I remember them for the most part now, any specific ones you wanna know about ?

[dusky thicket]

Do the Banshees in the Erebus Shadow elite fight respawn or are there just a lot of them? Same for the little guys on Tail of Typhon

[spare kite]

Those 2 respawn yes

[dusky thicket]

Do any others?

[spare kite]

Nah

[dusky thicket]

Thanks

[bleak night]

they just perma respawn yeah

[magic moss]

🫠

[signal coral]

@bleak night is there some secret to making mel axe do more damage? (assuming i dont get optimal hammers)

I played a test run of it and it felt a little underwhelming (im probably just not playing it correctly)
idk what else to do besides the typical dash attack -> 2 attacks -> special combo, and that has good damage at the start of the game after I get my attack boon but doesnt feel like it scales that much over time

[sage flame]

for high fear or in general

[signal coral]

uh, in general
i did 32 fear underworld for my test run

won because underworld is easy but it felt significantly harder than my torch or blades runs

was planning on doing 32 surface next but i expect to have problems since the underworld was harder than usual

i kind of noticed my damage was falling off a bit by the time I got to chronos

[sage flame]

what sorta build do you look for?

[signal coral]

which is not good because surface enemies have like x2 hp

uh, I just grab sworn strike and origination

after that idk just random secondary boons that look like they might be helpful

like this last run I had zeus special, demeter cast

it could be that my build is fine and im just bad with the weapon

idk that is probably an option

[sage flame]

depending on your hammers id say don't be afraid to throw in omega attacks too, and maybe have some duo targets in mind to keep up your damage, or just more zeus I suppose can work, storm ring, static shock, ect

[signal coral]

What duos are best here if I'm starting hera?

[sage flame]

cherished heirloom is always pretty easy to get since dem is always a good pick, this lets you get heroic athena boons, stronger lion fang or antler, I'd also say if you get dem and zeus again hail storm is really good, esp with arctic ring

if you get static from zeus and get heph in your pool (also a good god) master conductor is always good

ares duos are all good I think, getting open heart is really good with blood drops

[signal coral]

Oh wait blood drops are probably actually good on this weapon

[sage flame]

yuh

once mynt shows up im sure they can give you more specific advice for axe related stuff

[bleak night]

I mean it won't scale well in general after a period without one of three hammers, so you need supplementary damage like Blitz on Special or a cast with damage

Dashing Heave, Rapid Slash or Seething Marauder all immensely help with it, for the most part

Just one is enough usually, but without them it's def really rough unless you go Static + Blitz Special

[languid kayak]

Ive been trying to do surface 32 fear, do folks have suggestions on what fear I should activate and what build? I've been attempting it with aspect of medea for a bit but keep dying in the third zone (the enemy speed up makes the bullets from the automatons just actual machine guns and I keep getting hit by an entire storm)

[uneven palm]

As much time and frenzy and fangs as you can handle, ideally maxed. Drop a level of Frenzy or Fangs before you drop Time. Consider Forfeit if you don’t need tons of boons (Medea doesn’t). Don’t touch Hordes. For the surface also don’t use Debt you can buy tons of health or boons from Hermes and get super strong.

Medea the strongest build is Zeus special, Ares attack, and look for their duo with Apollo’s Light Smite too. But for higher fear I’d say Zeus special, Hera attack, and Heph/Dem defense is what to look for

Here’s a 32F I did with Medea and Zeus/Ares https://youtu.be/nA7Sf0tIteQ I have my arcana and fear up front.

[languid kayak]

Okay cool I didn’t even consider how much 2 levels of debt is holding me back, thx for the advice, will try to give all these things a go

[uneven palm]

Yeah debt sucks on the surface there’s so much stuff to buy

Like looking at the fear I’m running in that video probably adding Forfeit and dropping to Frenzy 1 would be significantly easier

Oh wait I took time2 there nvm

[formal pulsar]

trick knivess with artemis special crit boon is sooo nasty

[civic ocean]

Yeah it’s so crazy

Trick Knives with wounds Heinous Affront on Special and your dash attack starts to auto/delete entire rooms

[formal pulsar]

#h2-victory-boasting message

I think this my max for "fun" fear. enabling forfeit/debt/wards just suck the fun completely of a run

[viscid wave]

Is ares wounds better on attack or special for medea skull?

[sage flame]

attack, wanna save special for zeus probably

[viscid wave]

Ty. What i figured but wanted to check

[dusky thicket]

are you guaranteed to be offered an infusion boon if you hit the requirements?

[timber pawn]

No

[dusky thicket]

demeter only has her infusion and special left and if she only offers me special it overwrites my build

so it's like legendaries where you can't force it?

[timber pawn]

If I were you I wouldn't take the gamble, but now that you say that I'm actually not sure

[dusky thicket]

32 fear lol

strong boon though, I'll wait a sec and see if anyone else knows

[dusky thicket]

ok didn't risk it but I won anyways lol

[timber pawn]

Nice job

[spare kite]

Gg

[civic ocean]

IIRC and I might be wrong here, but if you have met the requirements for an Infusion boon you must be offered it if you have Denial-blocked so many boons you can’t fill the three offerings

That has been my experience

[lyric summit]

For Romantic Spark, does the effect still trigger when Dashing instead of Sprinting? 🤔

[timber pawn]

Yes

[rich belfry]

i need a cracked build for typhon for dmg. its been 5 nights and i always die to him in the surface.

[junior trail]

dashing, sprinting, doing dash-strike, all trigger romantic

[signal coral]

the two strongest aspects currently are medea and moros

[rich belfry]

zeussssssssssssssss lend me your power

[signal coral]

in terms of community opinion at least

some people say pan is strong as well but its always been somewhat underwhelming for me

[rich belfry]

what should i build with moros ?

[signal coral]

hera keepsake start, grab born gain

basic gameplay pattern is to channel omega special, then run into melee range and start hitting the enemy with your attack

repeat once omega special runs out

most attack/special boons work on this aspect, the important thing is just born gain in order to have enough magick

[rich belfry]

gad dammit i logged in for the game and im fighting typhon now

[signal coral]

prioritize taking +magick bonuses as well

you can watch some speedruns or high fear clears to see how the gameplay should look

the weapon is very broken so you should shred through low fear enemies

[rich belfry]

ima come back to u after i try kill him . i really cant know why born gain is good it takes my magic and in the end of the encounter i cant do omega attacks

happened once with typhon trying mel flames . took born gain and had 250 magic and wastn enough

[spare kite]

Is basically exponential mana

Also did you take fine line on that run

[rich belfry]

yeah

[spare kite]

Yeah 250 with no antler I assume is not gonna last

[rich belfry]

is that why i lost

[signal coral]

you didnt take enough magick

[spare kite]

Fine lines is a good take on torches, especially with Athena's righteous pike

[signal coral]

I generally want 300+ on mel torches by the time I get to typhon

[rich belfry]

yeah its amazing

[spare kite]

250 is just on the low end of mana for a 65k hp boss

[signal coral]

ideally closer to 400 if possible

though on higher fear since you need to prime magick it gets harder to consistently hit 400+

moros needs less magic though

since the aspect does more damage

[spare kite]

Something like grievous blow will also help with low max mana

[lyric summit]

Thanks!

I should really go for that duo more often lol

Surface has been kicking my butt recently 😭

[willow phoenix]

Do fine line + exceptional talent + weed killer + cut above for max magick drain with pike lol

I think I had 60+ cost per o attack on torch

[spare kite]

Don't forget explosive intent

[willow phoenix]

O yeah that too, pike was raining like crazy

[uneven palm]

It will not (speaking from experience)

[signal coral]

apparently romantic spark is bugged vs typhon

so its not as good on the surface as you would think

[willow phoenix]

A lot of things are bugged vs Typhon sadly

[uneven palm]

I can’t make it trigger against Typhon yeah

[signal coral]

still good for almost everything else but you just get zero bonus damage vs the biggest hp sack in the game

[uneven palm]

Real letdown

[willow phoenix]

Like master conductor not working vs Typhon sucks

[signal coral]

at the very least medea can do the funny wall cancel vs him

[uneven palm]

Oh that’s tragic

[willow phoenix]

And honestly I don't know if scorch actually works vs Typhon since we can't see the scorch bar. I swear every scorch run vs Typhon takes forever lol

[signal coral]

do bosses normally clear scorch upon phasing?

that could be what is happening

typhon is a 4 phase fight so lots of time for scorch to drop off

[rich belfry]

i killed him

but idk i think i should be better

[uneven palm]

Scorch “works” technically (I’ve freezer burn’d him it builds up) but like with 100% pyro technique you’re looking at 8min to tick down 65000

[rich belfry]

in the last attacks i lost like 100hp suddenly hes spamming attacks

[uneven palm]

That’s why it seems like it isn’t working. Just tickles the dude

[rich belfry]

yeahhhhh

[thin ridge]

Is luckier tooth not working against Typhon intended

Cause I tried it a month ago and it didn’t work so I just gave up on it

[dusky thicket]

try redoing your arcana, I did Pan with Eternity and Unseen. You really only need a single boon to win (Pos special) so you don't need rerolls. Unseen just lets you spam and helps you with cost increasers line Controlled Burn and Fine Line and Eternity is pretty crazy strong when you're always channelling

For 32 Fear at least idk about higher

[thin ridge]

Do people not have unseen by default

It feels super essential to me and it actives the hex regen too

[uneven palm]

No. Gain boons are core you can get one

[thin ridge]

True but sometimes I just don’t get gain boons earlt and that screws up the first couple of regions

[uneven palm]

And 6/s is just ok. It’s a lot for 5 grasp

[wise idol]

Unseen is not worth 5

[junior trail]

you can do a lot of thing with 5 grasp

[wise idol]

Especially since Hecuba exists

[dusky thicket]

not all gain boons are created equal though

[junior trail]

plus the unseen is the passive every 1 sec regen so it doesnt work while channeling

[wise idol]

Unseen is just so so negligible and you’re wasting the grasp that could help in so many other places

[stable herald]

I wish I could use Unseen but 5 grasp is just too much

[uneven palm]

Like take Boatman and you can buy 2 gains /j

[wise idol]

Fr

And can roll more for em

[signal coral]

Idk pan room clear is more rough than I would like

Boss damage is good

[uneven palm]

Seeing how the speedrunners did sick curve the bullet shiz by aiming outside the circle helped a lot there

[wise idol]

Pan shouldn’t really be struggling with room clear

[signal coral]

But it feels like Zeus just more comfy in regular rooms and at that point I'm only half playing pan at best

Compared to poseidon

[wise idol]

Yeah no special is better than pos for pan

[signal coral]

Obv pos has more boss damage

[wise idol]

Pos has more everything damage

[signal coral]

But Zeus feels better at everything else

[wise idol]

No special will out dps Poseidon on pan in like any scenario

Maybe aphro if you somehow get an absolute ton of bonus power but that’s too niche to consider

[uneven palm]

Yeah like a sick Aphro Killing Stroke Island Getaway can jump through a ton of hoops to maybe outdamage Poseidon a little

[wise idol]

I def would not recommend Zeus special for pan though

Zeus is really strong in a lot of scenarios but this is not one of them

[signal coral]

The thing with Zeus is that you get efficient room clears without being beholden to the pan playstyle. Don't need gain don't need channel speed it just works.

If you get those you can still do the pan thing and it's good.

[wise idol]

If you wanna play that way just play Mel blades tbh because pan zeus is just not that good

A lot of people actually start Zeus special for Mel blades because it’s actually good there

[signal coral]

Idk I see 50 clears are somewhat split between pos and Zeus atm and I tested both on 32 and I just like Zeus more

This is pan aspect btw, Mel is just all zeus

[uneven palm]

I mean yeah if you’re not doing Omegas Zeus is great. I just did 50F surface with pan with Zeus attack. But under less extreme circumstances you’re hard-pressed to beat big Poseidon O special

[wise idol]

I just checked the sheet and like one guy did zeus, Pos is still definitely the best option

Oops wrong reply

[signal coral]

It's 5 zeus 12 pos 2 other

[wise idol]

Are you looking at warsong patch? Or a different tab

[signal coral]

There is a boon breakdown tab

It's labeled as warsong misc stats

Some madman cleared 50 apparently with heph special on pan...

[stable herald]

oh that reminds me, how does Arc Flash interact with multi-hit omega moves like the Coat Omega Special? Like if the first missile applies Blitz, will the next missile from the same O Special immediately pop it?

[wise idol]

Ah I see I was just checking victory screens

[junior trail]

why i think of this as a boon sobbing and screaming why i dont have any good one to offer ahhh

[magic moss]

it was a damageless run as well :) https://drive.google.com/file/d/1QqKQ7mEllv-b98-cy15NPTmZ2aXK0tVy/view?usp=sharing

[signal coral]

Wtf

[magic moss]

it was trick knives tho so not traditional pan gameplay

[wise idol]

Yeah I was gonna say prob ignoring aspect

[signal coral]

Isn't like heph still bad for trick knives

[wise idol]

It ain’t the worst thing in the world

[magic moss]

btw olympic patch misc stats still exist its just in the resources sheet now

[uneven palm]

jfc

I am so bad at this game

[magic moss]

anyways heres the vod for that btw https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1KWXPYbELQ/?spm_id_from=333.1365.list.card_archive.click&vd_source=35dde63fec31352bdfdded0f2f0e3dc9

[wise idol]

More so that they’re insanely good

[uneven palm]

I had a damage-free 50f staff going the other day then Hellfish happened

[magic moss]

hellifish 👍

[uneven palm]

I said what i said 😜

I’ve fought that thing like 5 times total maybe I shouldn’t be doing UW 50s

[magic moss]

i just wanna say, its things like this that makes me glad i even started the herculean effort trying to keep track of everything

[signal coral]

I got baited by herroyung's hellifish post on reddit

It was like "here is how you win this fight on 53 fear" and I went in expecting some cool trick to make the fight easier

Instead I just watched him run around for 2 minutes slowly dealing chip damage and he still almost wiped to the encounter

[magic moss]

Divine Dash
Epic Nitro Boost
2 Gale Blocks
Still nearly dies

[uneven palm]

It’s the good work

[magic moss]

thanks <3

[civic ocean]

unironically if I am using mana on high fear I will take Hex doors if it's not up against something amazing

Twilight Curse ruins Hellifish

[snow portal]

Medea with Looming Ignition and Zeus attack is.......quite broken huh

[timber pawn]

Looming is glitched atm it seems like

[signal coral]

it makes the aoe huge on medea

idk if its a glitch or just weirdly worded

[formal pulsar]

Hellifish is my favorite miniboss in the game

[sage flame]

im 74% sure looming aoe with medea is a bug

[lyric summit]

Does anyone have like a sheet of the HPs of the bosses/mini bosses by any chance? 🤔

[signal coral]

wiki has them

[native dragon]

okay so with jetpack fists, what attack boon is best?
Should I go pure % dmg bonus from Aphrodite? Would Scorch on attack be better?

[bleak night]

Poseidon Attack is the go-to for the dash attack

[native dragon]

and general attacks? I went with Chill because the Fates wanted it to be so

[bleak night]

You usually just spam Dash Attacks

[native dragon]

oh.

[bleak night]

the punches aren't as good as a dash attack that hits 3x instantly

[native dragon]

yeah I see why now that you mention it...

[junior trail]

sooo about looming and medea, its definitely bugged

the attack size instantly reaches its maximum without needing to wait for 0.7 sec
but the attack damage, instead of 0.7 sec, it uses the medea's 3 second timing to reach its maximum

so its good for increasing attack size but not for damage

[native dragon]

but then why not go aphro dmg% increase? make those punches punch

[bleak night]

You can for sure, but the punches are quick enough anyway that Waves still helps on it a fair bit

not turbo quick, but enough that the damage isn't laughable in any way + your dash strikes do a ton of dmg

[native dragon]

Okay.. maybe it's just me... but I dislike more size for some more dmg. more size means likelier to be hit, no?

[bleak night]

interesting

[bleak night]

on Medea, size is mostly for AoE when it explodes. Hitting a target on Medea is never an issue since it's a full-melee aspect.

[native dragon]

Ouhhh you make a great point I can imagine it... one question I have in general for Poseidon, not sure how it was in the first game neither...

Does the splash dmg that starts FROM a target, ALSO damage that target? or is it just the enemies in the triangle generated BY hitting the target that take the splash dmg

[bleak night]

primary targets take the flat wave damage and then make the cone behind

or at least it seems that way, considering I've never seen a Waves tick miss ever

[native dragon]

figured but still good to get it confirmed.. thanks

[indigo viper]

Ich finde that Psychic whirlwind should be default build in Thanatos' axe.
Otherwise I feel too clunky using attack omega, which is weird for Wep buffing especially omega attacks.

[native dragon]

Caught the German

[indigo viper]

Oh, sorry, sometimes I mixed language which I learn, esp on my phone. no, I'm not German, I just learn language xD
Anyway, I feel like Than really needs this hammer.

[native dragon]

Fair enough.
But why learn German?

[vocal heath]

Can you get duo boons from the 2 god rooms (if it's not a duo of those 2 gods?)

[junior trail]

no

[vocal heath]

cheers

[bronze cape]

What's the easiest way to beat 32 fear?

[cyan mango]

I'm currently running with thanaxe & apollo attack, apollo dash, all the zues casts, chain lightning for core stuff. grab psychic whirlwind & just LMB to victory

[indigo viper]

Medea with Hera's attack and possessed array hammer was the easiest for me.

[languid kayak]

I might be wrong but does Hephaestus trusty shield have anti synergy with heavy metal?

[uneven palm]

No.

In fact trusty will restore some next room if you take like chip damage in a room

[languid kayak]

Oh okay i just wanted to check that I wasn’t gonna negate trusty shield for an amount of time for taking heavy metal thx!

[uneven palm]

Nah think of Trusty as just free armor each room

[nova nimbus]

is there a specific strat to maximize damage on pan or is it just cast, shoot, pierce some foes if you want

[small wyvern]

🫡

[spare kite]

I'm glad I didn't ping on h1 lol

[civic ocean]

Not sure if this is still the case I haven’t played Pan in a while but I believe you can drop the cast while charging?

Also the new hotness strat is to go for Trick Knives and use that instead of the omega

[glossy rivet]

is there a demeter build for coat?

[sage flame]

common trick knives W

[fair horizon]

Demeter/Ares duo with Demeter's cast and Winner's Circle, particularly fun on a fast moving Mel coat but good on everything. There's also Weed Killer for aspect of Selene + Apollo attack and legendary.

[fair horizon]

👆

[glossy rivet]

hmm ill try that ty

[uneven palm]

I mean Demeter’s probably best on cast just generally, and you’d like her for weed killer or maybe local climate on Selene

Otherwise her attack special are just ok on coat. You’d rather have Zeus/Ares/Poseidon/Hestia/Hera

[formal pulsar]

trick knives pan is really something huh. just finished a 45f surface run with only 1 hit from a boozer in ephyra. i was only missing forfeit and scars III. it is so broken at room clears and the pan effect makes it an insane guardian killer compared to other twin blades aspects.

[uneven palm]

Trick Knives goes hard on all the blades tbh

[uneven palm]

not sure how I cleared this run (#h2-victory-boasting message) something went very wrong with Gale here https://imgur.com/a/wO32dlK

[spare kite]

Lmfaooooo

[civic ocean]

Em4 chronos leaked

[uneven palm]

Vow of Chilling Out things just get slow now and then

[formal pulsar]

snatched my first 50f surface clear 🎉🎉

#h2-victory-boasting message

https://i.imgur.com/Sl1Touv.png

[uneven palm]

Only three things on the damage taken board that’s cracked

[bleak night]

Chinese build technology

It's 1/12 hammers but def seems like the strongest thing atm no ?

[formal pulsar]

The chinese are taking over for sure

I was doing trick knives runs the last couple of days but with mel aspect not pan. it is crazy how much better pan is for this with the homing special. it focuses the knives against guardians

[bleak night]

It's not the most reliable build is all, 1/12 hammers

You can seed the run ig ? Mel Blades is still the most consistent.

[uneven palm]

when they behave and stay in the cast [Polyphemus jumps away] yeah

[civic ocean]

Don’t they play seeded runs

[bleak night]

The Chinese players? Generally no

One of em has the hammer reroll mod on but besides him, the rest do unseeded

[formal pulsar]

the funny part is that I didnt even feel like I needed heph stuff like mint condition or trusty. the build just shreds once you actually get the hammer. and it does insane room clears (especially with hitch/dying wish/flash fry)

[bleak night]

You def don't need Heph anymore once you have the pieces

Star recommends taking Hestia for Glowing Coal as well since it has better range than Lightning Lance

https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1P1oDYeECW/?spm_id_from=333.1387.homepage.video_card.click&vd_source=35dde63fec31352bdfdded0f2f0e3dc9 his runs for reference

[fair horizon]

Unironically, Trick Knives is just Hook Knives. Ah, I miss Hook Knives.

[bleak night]

You have the run recorded by any chance? I feel like making a reddit post about the broken build

[willow phoenix]

Huh I've never considered that interaction with Trick Knives and Pan, very interesting

[bleak night]

have fun abusing it on 50, it unironically kinda trivializes it a lil

I was able to use it on 55 without Furies and Orig, so your scaling should be fixed on 50

[formal pulsar]

unfortunately no. but I am doing more runs now and trying to record now. maybe I will get it again.

[willow phoenix]

So just drop cast and spam dash attack?

[bleak night]

p much ye

[bleak night]

getting those Ws in before they nerf ?

[formal pulsar]

yeaaah

[bleak night]

fair, probs do Aphro + Poseidon or something

[formal pulsar]

i missed the mel skull moment. was busy at that time

[bleak night]

Island Getaway would just fix all your damage instantly

don't need anything else

[silent crow]

based

[signal coral]

is there a particular reason for apollo special? does the extra range interact favorably with something or was it just what showed up?

[magic moss]

so thats who he was

[formal pulsar]

Not really from my experiments. You simply want any good %atk. Hera/apollo/aphro(if fishing for island gateway) are all good. You just want trick knife as your first hammer and snow queen if going for no hit sheningans.

[willow phoenix]

Does % attack really outdamage Poseidon that much for this?

[formal pulsar]

I am assuming that’s because the %dmg applies when knife is returning but Poseidon waves don’t. And the returning back part is a big chunk of your dmg.

[willow phoenix]

Ah true

[signal coral]

oh, i didnt think about the return damage not proccing poseidon

makes a ton of sense

[patent light]

bruh, 32F surface is already challenging af

[fallow ginkgo]

But why Pan + Trick knives? It's still 3 specials right? Why not Mel aspect for backstab?

[hexed field]

how do we feel about aspect of pan with wave flourish, slippery slope, drunken stupor, killer current, exceptional talent, sureshot flurry and explosive intent?

[uneven palm]

Mel is also good, Pan has a bit more safety because you can be a little farther away from baddies but the daggers will still zorp into the cast

Don’t have to necessarily be point blank while dash-striking and chucking daggers

[bleak night]

Pan converges all 3 blades into the target inside the Cast, then returns. Realistically you will tag enemies 6x with the dagger throws

[uneven palm]

Also if anything’s in a cast you can’t miss which Mel/Artemis can’t do

[fallow ginkgo]

Cool, got it

[bleak night]

Mel Blades prefers Blitz, Pan Trick Knives does better with % damage

[uneven palm]

So happy to see Trick Knives love really taking off I liked that hammer the instant they introduced it, even before hook knives was built-in to the blades

[signal coral]

tbh i just took trick knives on everything

i think its the best hammer on blades, or at least it has felt the best to me

[bleak night]

I think they'll nerf it now lol sorry

[uneven palm]

Nooooo

[timber pawn]

Nah I don't think they will

[bleak night]

I feel like it's a lil telling is all

There are 5 55F Pan clears on the surface rn just off of that strat, with 1 being damageless and 2 having less than 30 damage taken

None of them go into the 18:30 mark either, so not the most time-pressed

[uneven palm]

EM4 Typhon immune to blade specials

There we fixed it (I hate it)

[bleak night]

they'll probs just nerf Athena again instead

[fallen veldt]

let me deflect Prom's fire again 😦

[uneven palm]

Fixed mental block is so sad. The multi-cast cooldown is unnecessary IMO

[bleak night]

they made a lot of boss effects undeflectable ye

[uneven palm]

But they did giveth Righteous Pike

[bleak night]

Hecate hex ball the biggest one

[uneven palm]

Like all of Hecate you can’t deflect yeah

[bleak night]

even the slow waves can't be deflected anymore?

[uneven palm]

Nope, like you’re still invuln but you don’t deflect em

[bleak night]

damn

[uneven palm]

Eris and Prom’s hadokens still deflectable

[bleak night]

[uneven palm]

You can also deflect Chronos’ gold balls to render them harmless. And Jetty’s bouncing balls. That might be it? I don’t think you can actually deflect anything from Typhon

[bleak night]

You can't, yeah.

[uneven palm]

Oh Cerb’s dragon breath that you can deflect. This I’m not 100% on but I think his other fireballs (slow bois and swipe flames) you can’t

[bleak night]

I haven't paid attention to UW enemies in a while ngl lol

They die quick compared to Surface enemies, so I forgot how they act mostly

[signal coral]

what if they reduced the number of knives thrown on the hammer

idk how else they would nerf it

[uneven palm]

Every time I run UW I’m like “oh this is easy now right” compared to surface

[bleak night]

unsure, might just nerf how it works with Pan cast, otherwise idk

The way it is right now, this is just the most low-effort, safe build with good scaling

[rich belfry]

hey , whats the build with medea ares attack and zeus special ? and whats the arcana build for it too ?

or should i use whatever arcana im ahving fun with

[uneven palm]

Rolls and cash, strength or death, persistence, rest is up to you. Medea wouldn’t mind Origination and Huntress

Zeus special whatever +% attack is what you want, but yeah Ares is probably optimal and the Ares x Zeus duo is very good

[glossy forge]

if you want to maximize your dps, yes, ares attack (purely for grievous wounds) + zeus special (double strike as well). You prefer heroic zeus, so start with zeus keepsake. You also want hera for multiple reasons: eventual king's ransom, extended family, and her infusion (rarify grievous, double strike, and success rate) are all amazing.

[glossy forge]

tbf there were some situations where poseidon waves kind of saved me. The huge aoe helped immensely with room clearing; I got several massive low-hp waves in thessaly, olympus, and the summit for my 55

but overall yea % is the way to go

[bleak night]

You probs would've won 2 minutes earlier if you had % ngl

[glossy forge]

yea it really hurt me on the bosses, prometheus felt like it took forever

and so did eris

[formal pulsar]

question about the 55 fear clear with pan: https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1P1oDYeECW/

Am i understanding this video correctly? is this even the correct vod? it starts from promtheus and the player resets rooms if he gets hit? is this allowed?

it is on the sheet

[bleak night]

Still, Waves works for room clear so it's def not the worst. My Eris took a long time because Icarus didn't appear until mid or late Olympus

[glossy forge]

ingenious flourish goes absolutely crazy yea

[bleak night]

Yeah it's just his proof of concept vid. He doesn't wanna upload unless it's damageless as well.

He showed me a 55f run with only like 20 damage taken before I went ahead and did mine

[glossy forge]

heroic waves worked the best for my hammers tbh, no reaper knives and no ingenious flourish

[bleak night]

He did 50f damageless with it in like 2 or 3 tries though

[bleak night]

It works ig yeah

[formal pulsar]

ah I see. that makes sense. just wanted to check. I thought it might be the wrong link added to the sheet

[bleak night]

Did Mini add that already ?

[formal pulsar]

yeah

[bleak night]

Tbf part of any run and he's chill with it. 55f just needs a full run to be on the 55f-specific board

[formal pulsar]

that's my opinion as well

where do you talk to chinese players anyway mynt? do they have their own discord

[bleak night]

I made a Bilibili just to talk to them lol

They have unique takes on builds that I've learned a lot from

They learn a fair bit from our side as well so they're very open about what they find, which is nice.

There's someone that just did an 18/18 for 50f surface runs as well, some of his builds are quite different from mine

[formal pulsar]

yeah they seem like a parallel community with their own meta. it is an interesting space to explore

[bleak night]

Iirc his Charon run is Mortal Gain

I like Charon with Mortal Gain but I'd never do it because I like Antler

[magic moss]

whoops XD

[glossy forge]

@magic moss I wish I could record ;-;

[magic moss]

yknow im still going to put your 55 clear on the sheet right, just not on the 55 clear page specifically

[uneven palm]

Antler + Mortal Gain was a funny mistake I made once

[bleak night]

I can never make that mistake if I never go Mortal Gain

I think it's alright but it just has an anti-synergy with my fave keepsake

[void idol]

not much of a mistake if you have good heph boons in the underworld

[glossy forge]

It’s not even about that, it just sucks that I can’t look at my own vod

But ty

[uneven palm]

I mean if you need more than 1 magick refill in fields it’s pretty bad 😅

[magic moss]

sadge

[uneven palm]

Also Heph’s boons don’t help at all with Mortal Gain, unless I’m not thinking of something?

[void idol]

they give you armor so the lost 15 health doesn't make as much of a difference at lower fears

[bleak night]

@magic moss can't stop laughing at what the Chinese player that did the 18/18 (Lao Mu) just told me

[magic moss]

wassup

[bleak night]

So you know how they taught me how to play Arty and Pers using the actual aspect bonuses for 50f?

I was saying thanks to him since he taught me Arty, and he said something to the degree of "I copied your Persephone build that just ignores the aspect. I learned from you that sometimes the aspect itself isn't worth it."

Then he did a Selene run and just completely never activated Sky Fall

Level 10 Heroic Flame Strike with Exhaust Riser with Freezer Burn was funny though

[magic moss]

lmfaooooooooo

[bleak night]

Oddly enough they didn't know about Wave Strike + Exhaust Riser until I showed them

They don't quite play Coat there

[uneven palm]

Yeah but if you need more than 1 magick refill in a room you’re out of magick

[void idol]

i still don't get the Poseidon coat hype

[bleak night]

It scales really well

[spare kite]

Lmfao

[void idol]

i feel like aphro is almost always better unless you get exhaust riser

[spare kite]

Just hit the 1/12

[void idol]

but even if you do get it aphro isn't as far behind

[timber pawn]

not at all trying to be rude but have you tried recording and it just doesnt work? thats a bummer 😦

[bleak night]

Wave Strike on Mel Coat still works quite well with just punching, room clear is also quite strong

[glossy forge]

I'm having trouble coming up with any coat builds that would work for 55. Hera attack with the +10 power hammer, plus Secret crush plus ingenious strike from icarus?

[bleak night]

Why are you doing that exactly

[formal pulsar]

i hate the normal coat punch so much. it feels so "weightless". the dash strike is so satisfying. not even talking damage. just talking gameplay feel

it has no combo

[void idol]

and blitz special

[uneven palm]

I’m the weirdo I stick with special attack attack and things just die

[bleak night]

I do think Wave Strike that you Bridal + Exhaust is your best foot forward for Coat unless you wanna just do RomanSpark

[uneven palm]

Dash-strike only feels real good with Poseidon

[glossy forge]

no worries whatsoever, yes I tried obs and steam record. if I play 53s or less, the input lag doesn't affect me enough to throw the run, but it made me fail multiple times on 55 bc you pretty much only get 1 hit

[timber pawn]

ugh thats really frustrating 😦 I'm sorry to hear

[bleak night]

No real streamlined build for Coat runs on 55 because it's never been done on the surface

[magic moss]

to this day i still have no idea how i got that 2:17 hecate entrance with coat

[glossy forge]

;-; your concern is appreciated. hopefully i upgrade my setup before 1.0 drops, but tbh i do these runs mostly for my own satisfaction anyway. it mostly sucks that I can't see my own vod

[bleak night]

The build I used for 55 UW almost timed out to bosses that have half the HP

[uneven palm]

Hera shimmering seems like the play to me but you’d need like Zeus attack for bossing

[glossy forge]

island getaway shimmering is an idea

[bleak night]

I think best way to go is to just gamba for Exhaust Riser + Divine and go from there

Because most of the 55f runs I won are just random stuff falling into my lap rather than something I build towards

[glossy forge]

the problem with that is that your dps is just terrible against olympus

at least with shimmering + island getaway it scales enough with +power stuff

[bleak night]

Probs don't play for Duos in 55. You have no Queen

No rerolls makes it worse

[glossy forge]

but with a wep like coat you might have to play for a duo

[bleak night]

I'll see. I have a feeling I might not if I just hit everything

Well, not everything. Just Exhaust + a good Wave Strike

[glossy forge]

true, it's possible with a few skips in thessaly an dolympus

without enough skips tho idt it's happening, not to mention the luck needed to bridal glow your wave strike

[bleak night]

My main issue with doing Coat 55f is I'll be obliged to do Torch and Staff as well

[glossy forge]

ah that's quite the hurdle

staff at least is well suited for romantic spark, yet another duo ik but what can you do

[bleak night]

Staff can just run Divine Dash so it's not that bad

I suppose Mel Torches can run Divine Dash as well

[glossy forge]

yea gl, i'll copy ur build once you get those runs 👀

[bleak night]

I'll do a meme video of Trick Knives + Bridal Glow'd Stutter Step first

And just mute my game so I can put Jet Set radio music in the background

[ashen timber]

So, I'm coming back to the game after a decent break, and a lot has changed. Some of the boons I thought I knew now work totally different (and I like some of the changes, but it seems some of my old favorite builds are much harder to do now). Chronos has died a lot, but as usual keeps coming back. I have not experienced Surface area 4 yet, still have a hard time even getting past Eris, and Ares still has yet to appear for me. I wanna start messing with Skull and Torch builds (my runs so far have been near-exclusively the spear, dagger, axe), so I was wondering what builds would be a good starting point to look into for figuring out the ranged styles?

[void idol]

try using aspect of medea on the skulls with zeus special and aphro or hera attack. this is a very simple build where you attack, then special into an enemy, triggering blitz. good supportive boons here would be double strike and extended family. oh and use strength instead of death defiances

or use aspect of moros for torches with zeus special and hera attack. boons like arc flash, extended family, and double strike also help. the routine here would be omega special, then rapidly o attack until the special runs out, then repeat. good hammers are clean candle and clean helix to a lesser extent

oh and I'm not sure if this is a spoiler but ares won't be appearing for a while for you

[ashen timber]

Are those builds surface viable? I feel like I would I be better off trying them in familiar territory first, but I know I have to go topside eventually if I wanna see the new stuff.

[void idol]

i prefer moros cause it's safer imo but medea is just stronger

[timber pawn]

Ya they're two of the strongest builds in the game

[void idol]

yeah i was in the same position as you when warsong released and i beat the final boss very easily without even using strength with like 2 dds left cause of how strong and safe moros is

[forest hinge]

The strike% increase from Ares' Blood Drops only affect attack/special recovery time right? not the channeling speed of O moves?

[junior trail]

That includes o.move channeling speed as well

[signal coral]

blood drops affecting omegas might actually be a bigger deal than strike speed

since there appears to be a cap on how fast your attack can swing, and that cap is pretty early on for some weapons

[void idol]

daggers are really held back by this

[forest hinge]

do we know what the cap is for any of the weapons?

also Blood Drops boosting channel speed is useful info

[void idol]

yeah terminology in this game is very weird

but i think strikes are everything except casts, attack or special means only those, attacks and specials includes omegas

[forest hinge]

the plural wording i get, but it not affecting casts are a choice.

[junior trail]

thats for omega moves, or casts

strike is for weapon stuff

[forest hinge]

so it doesnt affect the speed of channeling, but does affect the recovery time of Omegas and Casts?

[void idol]

nope

casts don't require mel to use a weapon

so it's not a strike

[junior trail]

the one that affects cast animation speed is hermes' nimble limbs

[forest hinge]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1233146305308528650/1355447677017395281/image.png?ex=67e8f685&is=67e7a505&hm=885c7cef4c76fe182657e34711436f805bdcb2fc2b0b4208720c65edbc00f24a&

speaking of strike speed LOL need to know the staff's strike speed cap, this run was so fun

[uncut sigil]

does anyone have a good consistent build for Typhon

[void idol]

.

you don't even need to dodge his attacks at that point

just try and get as much zeus as possible and don't mess up your god pool by taking other useless gods

aphro for shameless attitude and sweet surrender if you have passion rush or rapture ring is also good

and heph is great with antler or even otherwise for defensive capabilities

oh and hera for born gain as well cause it's the best

you don't really need to focus on percentage increases through chaos and such for your attacks and specials, but global boosts that affect blitz are great

oh and if you get phase shift which i love then you should know that if you activate it right after o special or while o special is active, they will continue spinning and run out, which is why you should activate it while the hex is active

[uncut sigil]

is that advice for me or

[thin cloud]

Any ideas for fun argent skull builds, it always feels funky to me

[willow phoenix]

What aspect?

[thin cloud]

What aspect feels clunky? Kinda all of them. If you mean which I want to use, I have no preference

[bleak night]

learn the ways of Medea gameplay (most fun aspect in the game)

[willow phoenix]

Ok then. Personally I'd say mel skull is the most beginner friendly skull, the gameplay is pretty brainless and it's fairly easy to beat 32f surface with it. If you want a more melee aspect use medea, if you want to use omega a lot try Persephone

Mel Skull:

• % damage on attack, zeus or utility in special, other origination source
• Generally some very good hammers, any attack related hammer is amazing on it
• Possessed array is one of the biggest dps in the game, get born gain to play with it. Hera is very good with this because Fine Line is free with possessed. Apollo too because of the legendary and huge o attack aoe which is carried to possessed
• Other good hammers are auto return, +skull numbers, sometimes wide grin
• The playstyle is generally just spam attack-> special to get skulls back. You don't need to spend all skulls before using special, just follow the flow. While it's ranged, you can pretty much play it at point blank which can feel better.

For a fun build, try something like Possessed Array, Born Gain, Fine Line, Weed Killer, Righteous Pike

[thin cloud]

how so

[willow phoenix]

Pretty much attack-special on loop lol. It's very fun in that it has huge damage and the combat flow is very smooth and rewards skill and knowledge

[thin cloud]

so just one skull per special?

[willow phoenix]

Yes mostly

[void idol]

yes

[fringe lichen]

Is there an use for Hestia other than proccing origination

And mana

[void idol]

she's terrible even for orgination

[fringe lichen]

Better her than no origination

[void idol]

take her only if you're going for a full on scorch run with every duo

[void idol]

better to use just one roll to get literally any other God

ig her cast is ok

but otherwise she's just bad

[wise idol]

scorch builds, burnt offering for mana heavy stuff, fireballs if youre going for fourth degree. also flash fry is really strong rn

[fringe lichen]

what is the current ranking of all the mana regen boons. born gain still first?

[wise idol]

mostly. mortal can be better in some scenarios but is basically incompatible with antler

[void idol]

hera then zeus then build specific

[fringe lichen]

i see. and for thanatos axe specifically?

[wise idol]

thanatos works with most gains, even glamor

but like born is prob still the best technically

[wise idol]

also i'd say ares is def better than zeus unless youre going for antler

[bleak night]

Born and Mortal are the two best rn

primarily because you just need to build a resource outside of battle, nothing extra to think about in fights as long as your numbers are good

but Mortal falls way behind for certain aspects compared to Born

Lucid best for Charon, Cardio best for Staff for certain builds, Glamour is really good on Mel and Than Axe, etc

Ionic is decent on everything except for turbo-spamming aspects like Fine Line Torches, and Tough Gain is more of a defensive option for Magickless aspects than an actual boon imo

I think Fluid Gain is just the worst one no ?

Tranquil still does work if you find the time to stand still for a second, so it's annoying to use but reliable if you just meet the requirements

[stable herald]

I haaate Tranquil Gain lol. Cardio is good for blades too, but I don't like it on staff because I'm spending most of my staff time spamming omega attacks. And yeah Fluid Gain just kinda sucks

[willow phoenix]

tranquil can be fine if you have a big enough magick pool since phase transitions in bosses and wave transitions in encounters are enough time for it to trigger without disrupting your combat

Fluid gain needs a sidegrade imo, dunno like an explosion on collection or something

[wise idol]

Problem with tranquil is it’s just worse zeus

[willow phoenix]

True

[polar ravine]

or maybe a duo upgrade where it temporarily removes primed mana

[fringe lichen]

luckily got to see the message before you got 1984d

[glossy forge]

flash fry is amazing, take hestia just for that lmao

haha wtf was that, guess emphasis cursing is not allowed

[silent crow]

literally 1984

[willow phoenix]

Scorch as casual damage on cast is pretty good imo, but the common cast is kinda bad

[silent crow]

glowing coal is good util

[willow phoenix]

if only Hestia sprint is actually useful lol

[silent crow]

epic scorch cast is imo one of the best boons in the game

[void idol]

that's definitely an opinion

[silent crow]

80 dps high tickrate applies origination

no other cast in the game has all three of these

[void idol]

but the origination applied by scorch cast can be easily done with arctic gale

and use storm ring instead

[silent crow]

storm ring has no aoe

[silent crow]

now u dont need two boons and u can complete the other half of orig with gale

[void idol]

yeah but it makes up for it in pure damage

[silent crow]

storm ring pure dmg isnt that good

[void idol]

applying origination really isn't that hard or big of a deal

[void idol]

that's just not true but also double strike makes up for that

and also if you want some aoe use clang gang

[formal pulsar]

Okay but like if you keep putting extra boons into the equation storm ring will become better. Sand point is that epic hestia cast has good damage and comes with half origination

[silent crow]

its like 95dps single target at epic right that isnt so strong considering catching two enemies in an AOE cast is effectively double the value

[void idol]

fair enough but who looks at boons through a vacuum

[silent crow]

a boon being low investment is valuable

being able to get so much in 1 slot and never having to worry about it again is great

other casts have a higher ceiling of course

[formal pulsar]

The thing is once you get into forfeit and debt vows, boons become much more valuable and you want each boon to be good on its own and off the go

[silent crow]

but just off the rip hestias is one of the best

[void idol]

but you will have to worry about it when you see hestia appearing again and again with not very useful boons

[silent crow]

hestia has 3 other "good" boons after scorch cast

glowing coal flash fry and hot pot

[void idol]

you also want your god pool to be filled with good god's with great boons, and hestia has neither of those

[silent crow]

which is an average amount for a side god i think? idk hestias other boons suck i agree but its not the worst thing to ever

[void idol]

ok i will admit flash fry is a great boon but glowing coal feels clunky and hot pot isn't great either

[silent crow]

glowing coal is preference based thats fair

i really like it and on an objective level it has a ton of safety value but jt also makes the ocast harder to use

[void idol]

see for most builds on high fear you take two gods for the build itself and then heph

the last God is kinda just whatever

[silent crow]

hestias a fine whatever god for your cast slot and flash fry

and a lot of high fear builds are kind of exactly the same if im not wrong? just hera atk/zeus special

or ares for medea but i think thats the speedrunner meta

[glossy forge]

hestia is just flash fry. her cast is an opportunity cost, her other supplementals are meh, her scorch attack is only good at heroic + daggers or staff mirrored, scorch special is completely useless, sprint doesn't work on things it should work on, cardio gain only good with mirrored thrasher

[bleak night]

Hestia is also Cardio Gain for certain things

not just Mirrored Thrasher imo, can sustain Axe, Coat, etc

[glossy forge]

but flash fry is so absurdly strong that it's worth taking her over a lot of other gods if you have your core slots down

[bleak night]

I did a Nyx run with Cardio Gain start and it was pretty good, I never won any because the game just never gave me Freezer Burn or Fire Walk so lul

[glossy forge]

not even though, it's simply inferior to glamour gain when you only need a bit of magick

[silent crow]

is her cast not a decent option among the damaging ones

[glossy forge]

The problem is that doing damage with your casts simply isn't an effective way to win in most situations

[bleak night]

dunno, I sometimes don't like running Aphro

[glossy forge]

so going for support/utility on your cast is far better

[bleak night]

it worked really good on Nyx because it regen'd super quick on just common

so I was able to keep Omega Boosting into targets. Issue is that Omega has no scaling at all, but that's a separate issue

[glossy forge]

ig it's viable in that situation, but in general cardio gain < born/mortal for magick-heavy builds, cardio < glamour for magick-light builds

[bleak night]

also ngl Burnt Offering is not bad

[glossy forge]

burnt offering is excellent, and flash fry is amazing, those are why I go for hestia fairly often

[bleak night]

I haven't used Flash Fry in a 50 surface run yet

[glossy forge]

oh not on the surface lmfao it's terrible on the surface

[bleak night]

I don't typically go for Hestia is all

It's just rly bad

[formal pulsar]

Flash fry dying wish with mass hitch is something to watch

[bleak night]

They need to seriously do something about her Sprint

feels like a coinflip on if it will destroy the projectile for you

just make it Fire Walk but weaker and change her legendary or something

[silent crow]

• boon is named fire walk
• only works when you sprint

[glossy forge]

sometimes I run headfirst into a satyr sapper rocket and it disappears, other times I just tank 75 damage for no reason

[bleak night]

I just watched Kirk get hit 50% of the time by Eris with Heat Rush

legitimately half of the shots were disappearing and half were getting dodged by 30% dodgerate or hitting him

[glossy forge]

also, the sprint does not work on the enemies summoned by prometheus? did you know that 😃 i did not, until I lost a decent selene 50 run thinking "oh, lemme just sprint"

[stable herald]

I think there's some kind of issue with how the game decides if you're sprinting or not, like sprinting into Toula or shades is also really inconsistent. Or maybe Heat Rush only blocks projectiles from the front or something?

[bleak night]

I don't take that boon so idk lol

[bleak night]

Kirk was running sideways and the Eris shots felt like they were coinflip between hits and Heat Rush deletes

[stable herald]

yeah I took Heat Rush a few times thinking it would be a big help against Eris and 🤡

[bleak night]

They used to be 100%

idk what exactly they changed, but it's just no longer the case

[silent crow]

at least heat rush will give you 0.1% uptime on origination to make up for all of that

[formal pulsar]

What if they made it a weaker divine dash that destroy when dashing instead of deflecting. It would give incentive for going hestia core boons outside of cardio gain staff

[glossy forge]

to expand on this point, yes. Epic smolder ring is a decent dps boost early game, and it remains fairly effective late game, especially for stripping wards and getting rid of small-hp enemies. The issue is that it's outclassed by arctic ring for both of those things, and its only superior attribute is the higher dps, which is mostly irrelevant come late game. And demeter's supplementals (snow queen, plentiful forage) are much stronger than hestia's, especially because the underworld highly favors survivability over dps.

[willow phoenix]

Maybe they changed it because it used to absolutely trivialize eris lol

Still I think among cores hestia rush has got to be the worst one out there, maybe with hestia special too lol

[silent crow]

thats fair

[glossy forge]

i don't know if I've ever taken hestia special other than to fulfill the prophecy lmao

[silent crow]

i tried hestia special on eos a few patches ago it was bad

[formal pulsar]

Well then rework. Don’t just make it inconsistent at the one thing it is supposed to do

[stable herald]

I think if they improved Scorch and redid Heat Rush/Fire Walk (combine them! 👏 ) and gave her a better legendary, Hestia would become really good really quick

[silent crow]

would it be better on surface or is the surface too competitive

[spare kite]

"if they just changed most of the god they would be good" /lh

[silent crow]

since surface dps is harder to maintain

[formal pulsar]

Unironically for hestia. I hate almost all. Her core boons

[glossy forge]

the surface demands high dps and high control (less control the better you are). You won't get high dps from smolder ring, and arctic ring is generally one of the best boons you can obtain on the surface for high control. Hestia is almost never taken aside from a few edge situations on the surface; you want to set up your core build, your biggest dps for late game, in Ephyra, and that can't happen as effectively if you pick smolder ring.

[stable herald]

I mean if Scorch stops sucking, then her core boons stop sucking

except Heat Rush, that still sucks

[silent crow]

thats fair

[willow phoenix]

Honestly I don't think I'd like it if fire walk got pushed into dash with it still working the same way

It either pushes for sprint only runs since it has big damage or will still be useless because sprinting through enemies to leave fire behind is just very clunky

Fire walk should just be triggering on all movement or just all the time

[silent crow]

my main gripe with using heph cast to get dmg is that it only really flies with winners circle but i guess you can just hit that in ephyra pretty reliably

[stable herald]

Be interesting if the Fire Walk hazards also destroyed projectiles. You could build little barriers!

[silent crow]

hestias sprint should charge fireballs

and they should add more fireball duos

[formal pulsar]

Beach ball sprint hestia

Do we know why hestia special is the only special that is worse than the attack? No other good is like that

[silent crow]

Nope

[glossy forge]

my only guess is that they didn't want you to nuke enemies with freezer burn pan, but that's a terrible reason to make it useless on all the other aspects, esp bc freezer burn is not broken whatsoever, it's viable but in the normal range

[bleak night]

if you pom it twice, it's still good without Winner's Circle ngl

my main grip with it it is the rarity scaling isn't linear for some reason

[silent crow]

thats true but i would really rather have winners circle 😞😞

[bleak night]

50/70/80/90 ???

[signal coral]

can I ask what makes flash fry so good?

[silent crow]

wtf

[bleak night]

room clear

[signal coral]

iirc hades 1 had a bunch of "on death enemies deal damage" stuff and it didnt seem that amazing to me

but i could be underestimating them in general

[glossy forge]

it's good in the UW because it kills groups of small enemies, even sparse small enemies, all at once, even through wards if wards is on. Saves a bunch of time, and saves on damage you might have taken fighting them

[signal coral]

oh wards

[silent crow]

those were way weaker and h1 doesnt have as many low hp trash enemies

[glossy forge]

it's cracked in erebus and oceanus

[signal coral]

yeah i can see it at high fear now

if you get one shamillion fish with wards it makes the fight free, and that type of encounter is really annoying otherwise

[stable herald]

watching Flash Fry destroy entire packs of those little fishies is so satisfying. You're telling me a shrimp fried this rice?

[signal coral]

so far im mostly doing 32 fear surface runs so i havent noticed flash fry being that valuable (though i rarely take hestia to begin with)

less small enemy spam on the surface and I dont have hordes or wards turned on

[willow phoenix]

Flash fry will pop all those explosive egg traps in the summit leading to a big chain reaction lol

[silent crow]

doesnt that turn half the map into a death zone

[stable herald]

I need to give Burnt Offering a chance because I don't really see what the big deal is, but I guess if the ashes it spawns also give you bonus HP with the incantation that's awesome

[silent crow]

its +5 magic per ash not per ash pickup

[willow phoenix]

Well yes, but if you know it'll happen it'll just clear the enemies lol

[silent crow]

so an ash pickup would give you 25

[stable herald]

Oh. Oh dang

[willow phoenix]

You can easily reach like 500 magick with burnt offering on erebus

[silent crow]

actual nonsense boon

[spare kite]

It also works on shop ashes no

[willow phoenix]

Yes

[spare kite]

Goofy boon

[formal pulsar]

the description on that boon is sooo bad

[willow phoenix]

It pretty much removes your need to increase max magick

[silent crow]

turns ash pickups into basically entire mana pots

[stable herald]

well now I understand lol

[willow phoenix]

Although tbh the only builds that can use that much magick are just possessed array and fine line torch lol

[spare kite]

Uncanny fortitude

[stable herald]

I f'ing love Uncanny Fortitude

[formal pulsar]

i like it for fourth degree builds since i am going hestia anyway

[surreal hazel]

More if posideon step in

Buried treasure directly amplifies burnt offering

[spare kite]

Oh lmfao I wasn't thinking that

[surreal hazel]

Sea star too. Obviously

On those oceanus dpuble ash piles you can get 200 mana cap in one room

[formal pulsar]

I think I will stop now #h2-victory-boasting message

https://i.imgur.com/pN5BACe.png

[paper plover]

what's a fun and goofy heph build

no thoughts only clang clang

[formal pulsar]

heph blasts can be fun in the underworld at lower fear. UW kinda needed for echo pom pom pom. they do deal a lot of damage once when you have the CD short enough

[civic ocean]

Play coat, Ares wounds on attack, heph blasts on special, then go for the heph apollo and heph aph duos and the ares 2x damage chance while working towards ares infusion

[dreamy thicket]

Does every Momus pulse trigger a Fine Line? Or only once on the initial hit?

[silent crow]

once

[dreamy thicket]

The Heph+Poseidon Duo (Seismic Hammer): Does that blast count as a "traditional" blast? Will it trigger the same things that the Attack or Special blasts trigger?

[silent crow]

ues

[cerulean panther]

What Duos enhance the clang? Just Hestia and Apollo?

Chain Reaction and Rude Awakening?

[civic ocean]

Love handles also interact with it iirc

There’s a cool interaction where all 3 duos between heph aph and apollo feed into one another

[cerulean panther]

Oh yeah, I've run that before.