balance-feedback-discussion

[spare badger]

It shouldn't be 50/50

[ripe furnace]

I went against a group of Tenos with my carno family and they evaded us by using their tail slam to kill one of us and swimming away

[wise obsidian]

Groups are obsolete

[spare badger]

Skill issue

[wise obsidian]

Tell me a 1v1 situation instead

[ripe furnace]

Maia loses to allo for so many reasons and even then it’s bulky enough to kind of defend itself

[ripe furnace]

1v1 carno died not too difficult

[wise obsidian]

Post patch?

[spare badger]

Yes
So 60/40 Allo favour
Sound familiar?

[ripe furnace]

Yes post patch

[spare badger]

Only way carno dies if it facetanks tenos ass
And sometimes it works cause kick doesn't mark half the time

[ripe furnace]

Allo and carno are completely different you’re removing the nuance

[wise obsidian]

Yeah carno can just facetank at times rn.. but thats a problem for another day

Hitboxes

[spare badger]

What nuance

[ripe furnace]

It’s not a good comparison

Skill problems

[spare badger]

The size and speed is all that is required for the comparison
It's simple balance
The slower creature should win

[ripe furnace]

Not that

[ripe furnace]

You’re simplifying it far too much

[wise obsidian]

Thats literally as simple as it gets

[ripe furnace]

By that standard you’d want Nagy to outrun an allo

[spare badger]

I am simplifying it so it's easy to understand

[spare badger]

There's a reason people hate it

[wise obsidian]

I can see why you had to simplify it

[ripe furnace]

Diablo is slower than allo and loses

What is your argument for that

[wise obsidian]

No it dont

[spare badger]

Diablo wins easy

[mental roost]

-If carno was able to outbrawl Alberto and Allo(both animals that are slower than it), it'd be mega dumb. The point is that it's the RULES OF ENGAGEMENT. The faster individual controls whether the fight happens or not. The slower animal, regardless of weight needs some means of defending itself. Which is why Magy is bad.

Tenoto by design SHOULD be able to kick a carno's ass if the carno fucks up and the tenoto plays well enough. The tail slam should absolutely be something to be worried about and not joked about or laughed at.

We can't give Tenoto camouflage or heavy armor, or burrowing so how does it defend itself against opponent's faster than itself? It fights back against animals close to its size( C a r n o), as it has to still remain true to the animal and character. Which all matches up for Tenoto except that they've screwed up on the number's department for it.

[wise obsidian]

Diablo FUCKS allo, i dont know what you're on about

And, get this, its slower than allo!

[ripe furnace]

Only in legacy

[spare badger]

Diablo isn't even in Evrima what the hell are you on about

[mental roost]

Ceratopscians, even at Diablo's size are hard little buggers to take out considering the only weak spot for most predators is right behind the horns and guarded by a mixture of bone and keratin.

[spare badger]

Is this because they downsized it?

[mental roost]

ei: their neck. Attacking the ass cheeks and tail should do very little because it's just bone and fat and nothing vital.

[spare badger]

That means they change its stats so your point is null

[ripe furnace]

It is confirmed

[ripe furnace]

It’s still slower regardless

[wise obsidian]

Its not in evrima currently

[spare badger]

How do you know?

[wise obsidian]

It's not even close to done, so dont use it as comparison

[ripe furnace]

I know neither is allo

[wise sparrow]

Are we still fucking on about this?

[ripe furnace]

You just used allo as a comparison

[wise obsidian]

Pretty much

[spare badger]

Somehow...

[wise obsidian]

Blunt pls list the reasons in a neat order of why teno should stay the way it is right now?

Its just endless bickering

[spare badger]

Explain yourself

[ripe furnace]

Because it defends itself just fine. The only difference is that they removed a broken game mechanic where you could kill a carno with ease

Other than that the change is almost non existent

[wise sparrow]

Okay I'm scared of #general-feedback now

[wise obsidian]

The mechanic is not broken

[mental roost]

Scout should curbstomp heavy and soldier without having to dodge while heavy and soldier can only use melee(with no random crits) while scout does the same damage as them(65 per hit), and the heavy and soldier both hit slower.

[ripe furnace]

Dealing with carnos is the same there’s just more of them now

[spare badger]

It does not defend itself just fine.
Kick never works
And
Slam costs too much and does very little

[mental roost]

Arguing against numbers isn't a good idea. There's a reason why there's more carno's than before. And Tenoto has entered an objectively bad state.

[ripe furnace]

You’d still want more after it’s kick was fixed though

The slam isn’t the only way you should be attacking a carno

[spare badger]

I proposed a change to slam to make it worth using

[ripe furnace]

That just waters down to a skill issue at the end

[spare badger]

Right now it's not worth it

[ripe furnace]

It’s very worth it

[spare badger]

I would much rather use all 4 moves

[ripe furnace]

I think it’s claw attack could use some stuff though but that’s out of the reg

[wise sparrow]

Blunt.
An actual argument
"Skill issue"

[spare badger]

How so? It hits for terrible damage and takes up 10% of stam

[ripe furnace]

ok

[ripe furnace]

You can still kill them with it the damage is literally fine

Play smart carno dies

[wise sparrow]

The damage would be fine if it didn't cost so much stam for a little stun

[ripe furnace]

Good carnos lose to good Tenos

[spare badger]

The damage is bad for the stam cost
Either lower it by a good amount or give it some fracture daamge

[mental roost]

It's not a skill issue if it's objectively garbage. Tail slam should be the highest source of Tenoto's damage with the kick ideally being a stunner, or get away(since you can use it while moving)

[ripe furnace]

But it’s not garbage at all. And the devs wanted the opposite of that

You have several attacks at your disposal but you only want to spam tail Slam until whatever’s next to you dies

[spare badger]

It works the other way around which is fine

[mental roost]

Numbers say otherwise. That and they wanted the kick to actually be used. NOT be the main source of your damage. Your point falls apart as a result of that.

The purpose of so many attacks is to be flexible

[ripe furnace]

Ask one

[mental roost]

and adapt.

[ripe furnace]

Sure thing Logan

[mental roost]

Or you can just use common sense that you clearly lack. '

[ripe furnace]

Yes Logan so sorry

[spare badger]

If you really don't want to give slam the ability to fracture just reduce the stam cost by a lot and fix kick

[ripe furnace]

That’s fine

I don’t mind a stamina change

[spare badger]

It would sway the matchup back in tenos favour, and make it not garbage in a 2v1

[ripe furnace]

It shouldn’t win those anyway

[spare badger]

No, but it shouldn't be useless

Can we agree on that?

[ripe furnace]

I’d like if had more stationary capabilities like standing on its hind legs

[ripe furnace]

It already isn’t

[spare badger]

In a 2v1 definitely
Even 1v1's rn it kinda is

It's hard to quantify since kick is broken

[ripe furnace]

Not at all

[mental roost]

Look at other video games and how they handle similar attacks and mechanics. TF2, Dark Souls, etc, etc. Stationary heavy attacks with long winds up do a lot of damage. HOWEVER they are usually proportional to some capacity. If it's a huge amount of damage for the balance set up(take Ludwig holy blade from BB), it's charged R2 has a noticeable wind up and charge with a brief moment of leaving the player standing there.

This attack uses around 60-80% of the player's stamina and leaves them exposed if they miss it. However if it lands it can quickly change the way the fight is going.

Now if the attack did say, 60% of its damage but had the same wind up, delay and stamina cost it wouldn't really be all that worth it. If it did the same damage as a single saw cleaver swing.. It'd be kinda pitiful.

[spare badger]

Definitely is
Carno can outdamage tenos non-functional hitboxes
And in a 2v1 teno runs out of stam very quickly because it is dealing with 2 opponents

[mental roost]

-I have no idea what games you play, but I'm just using Bloodborne as a solid example of stationary stamina heavy attacks. Generally speaking most games follow that idea. An attack should generally be rewarding if it lands. Heavier hitting attacks like that are more punishing if they miss. Fast light attacks are much more forgiving due to their lower individual damage.

[spare badger]

Tbh I would give kick the same damage and stam cost as pre patch tail slam

Since it has poor range it would not be broken

[wintry mountain]

Teno flat out shouldn't be attempting to fight the 2v1, not really sure what you want it to do there.

It has the raw sprint stam advantage
Water speed
Using jungles and trees
It still turns better, especially when carnos mobility buffs only help its low Velocity turn rates, still turns like a truck in a full tilt.

In terms of the 1v1, I can level that a tail slam stamina buff could be viable, giving it more uses overall, but aside from that, it is kinda a learning curve

All of the above relating to the 2v1 also applies to the 1v1, teno has options in both cases

[spare badger]

In a 2v1 it should be able to hold them off so it can try and escape

Right now it just kinda crumples

[ripe furnace]

And it does

[wintry mountain]

Or you should just run.

You have pretty much everything in the mobility department over carno minus raw speed

[ripe furnace]

Just because carno is faster doesn’t mean you can’t run away

[wise obsidian]

Hows the discussion going? I had to go do other things other than bicker on islecord

[spare badger]

Carnos agility has been buffed now so that's not all that true
Cause the 'walking turn rate' also applies for drifting for some reason?

[mental roost]

In an ideal world, Tenoto shouldn't HAVE to kill the 2 carnos to live another day. But well.. that rarely happens. As even with around 5-10% of their health most players insist on fighting.(not much to do outside of fighting really)

[spare badger]

I agree teno should try and run from 2 carnos

[wintry mountain]

From personal experience I've had no issue avoiding carnos using environment, but I'm not gonna deny that it has become far more challenging

[spare badger]

But trying to run never really works
Especially because every body of water is infested with deinos

[wise obsidian]

At the same time teno shouldnt have to completely rely on environment to survive an encounter

[spare badger]

Was 1v1ing a carno, it facetanked my ass since kick doesn't like to register, then 2 more came out
During the fight I was moving towards the river so I eventually got there and tried to swim away just to get eaten by a deino

In theory it works but deino disagrees

[wise obsidian]

Well.. at least you denied them a meal

[wintry mountain]

Chad move 😎

[spare badger]

I just felt kinda bad but also kinda good

[mental roost]

Can't the carno's just track you anyway?? With the new scent mechanic and what not.

[wise obsidian]

Pretty much

[spare badger]

New scent is OP as shit

[wintry mountain]

Teno trots and regens better

[wise obsidian]

Either wallow in mud or go in water

[wintry mountain]

But yeah scent is busted

[spare badger]

If they added Riverside mud again I would think this problem would be much easier to avoid

[wise obsidian]

I personally like to throw off my trackers by running in pointless directions so they cant tell which way i went

[wintry mountain]

I do a lot of zig zags and circles when I run, works p well

I lost 4 carnos as a pachy doing that

[spare badger]

Nice

[mental roost]

I can maybe sorta see that working fine. Would make it a more readibly available resource to help out.

[wise obsidian]

Riverside mud was good but also kind of busted

[wintry mountain]

Anyways, yeah I won't deny the fact that teno kick hitbox is wonky

It could def use some improvements

[wise obsidian]

Its a race against time for the predators to kill their prey before they get to a water source

[mental roost]

I think the mud mostly hurt Utah.. and give Deino food time to time.

[wintry mountain]

Likewise tail slam itself could use a moderate stam use cut

[wise obsidian]

And once they get there, completely gone

So it was just frustrating

Negated bleeders as well

[spare badger]

They nerfed it so that you still bleed when wallowed

You gotta sit as well now

[wintry mountain]

^

[spare badger]

And 1 hit cancels it's affect iirc

[wise obsidian]

No i think they fixed that

Unless im remembering wrong

[spare badger]

It was intended

[wintry mountain]

Wallowing remains even if hit yeah

[spare badger]

I stand corrected

[wintry mountain]

Bc it made no sense for all your wounds to magically reopen from one bite

[spare badger]

True

[wise obsidian]

Pteranodons pecking you and you die to bleed

[wintry mountain]

The bleed wallow relationship needs work

Bleed itself needs work

[wise obsidian]

I'm not saying you're wrong but how

[mental roost]

Anyone else somewhat feel like wallowing sorta favors the more defensive animals sometimes?

[spare badger]

Almost happened to me

Was at like 2 blood left and a ptera kept nibbling at me
Another teno killed it

[mental roost]

Stego's taken advantage of it for awhile now.

[hollow canyon]

No, it really shouldn't. If you're 1v2 you shouldn't be winning that fight fullstop. You should run and hope that they either run out of stam or that you have water close enough to lose them.

Tenonto is intended to have a lower growth time than Carno, it's a smaller animal than Carno, the idea that it should be handling 2 predators larger than itself is just preposterous.

[half girder]

a good teno player should be able to fend off 2 carnos that are utterly garb but it doesn’t have the dmg nor stam so the carnos can now just tank a few tail slams and keep spamming m1

[hollow canyon]

Depends on how good that Tenonto is - if one was really good with it then Tenonto technically has enough stamina to pull that off

then again - I doubt anyone is that good

[half girder]

no it does not lol

the stam cost for its ability is outrageous

[hollow canyon]

Yea it does - Tenonto kills a Carno with 5 headshots now

[hollow canyon]

agreed

It should be lowered and idk why it wasn't... AGAIN

[half girder]

pachy dmg on carno needs to be reverted rather then doing 5% dmg and a body fracture to then which a carno can just out run and stam it anyway lol

[hollow canyon]

I don't know what's so hard to grasp about this - if you lower the damage output of a skill that takes stamina you just have to lower the cost too, yet the devs refuse to do that

Idk about Pachy dmg, I don't think that was even changed?

Body fracture decreases Carno's runtime to 30 seconds

[half girder]

it was

[hollow canyon]

I don't see that in the patch notes

[half girder]

if a pachy misses 2-3 headbutts it’s won’t outrun a carno

[hollow canyon]

Oh yea, the stamina cost there could be touched up too

I agree, you shouldn't be sentencing yourself to die by using your abilty

But yea idk why you think the damage was changed, there's nothing in the patch notes about that

[half girder]

i think the turning is shit combined with the awful up my ass camera too

[hollow canyon]

Yea the turning was really bad when I took a look at it

[wintry mountain]

Pachy damage wasn't touched

[half girder]

sure feels like it

[wintry mountain]

Only values changed were turn rate, tap ram cc, and buffs to its hunger/thirst

And ofc juvie speed/stam

[half girder]

took 6 headshot full charges to put a carno in the hurt

[hollow canyon]

I personally think that perhaps either its stam/stam cost or/and turn rate should be touched upon

[wintry mountain]

If your expecting a pachy to kill a carno then your only going to disappoint yourself

[hollow canyon]

Well, I'm not sure what you mean by "in the hurt"

[half girder]

i want it to hurt the carno

not kill.

[wintry mountain]

It does, but truth be told it needs to get the fracture and back off

Of which it's struggling to do due to how ram is designed

Which in of itself needs improvement

I could get behind reverting the changes on the turn when holding ram, given carno can actually turn to counter

[half girder]

and sometimes the hit reg doesn’t work

[hollow canyon]

Also - I'm not sure if this was addressed but I have a feeling that Pachy still sometimes phases through its opponent

[wintry mountain]

Yeah, ram as a mechanic is funky

[wintry mountain]

Correct

[hollow canyon]

yea this happens when you attack as a Pachy at point blank

[wintry mountain]

Because reasons that annoy me

[hollow canyon]

I think Utah has the same issue with its pounce

if you use it at point blank you just kind of stun yourself

[wintry mountain]

When doesn't utah have issues with pounce tho

[half girder]

i floated in the air and almost died as utah

[hollow canyon]

it doesn't register the thing in front of you

and just throws you on the ground, I think it's an issue both with Pachy and Utah

[half girder]

the game is so boring rn it’s unbelievable

only fun dino i’d say rn is deino lol

[hollow canyon]

eww

[half girder]

but the drowning something then it teleporting bug is just dumb

i drowned things and the body would tp 50 feet away on land

[wintry mountain]

Luckily that's been figured out and reported

Tho on terms of pachy

There is a feature that either didn't make or is bugged

That or a value is set too low

Since pachy ram is meant to still deal damage/fracture w/out cc being applied, meaning tap ram could theoretically still snap a carnos leg, you'd just miss out on the cc

The only exception to this would be self staggers, so simply raising tap rams self stagger to not apply against carno sized animals could help eliminate some issues

But ultimately the flaw is with how ram itself works

Phases through animals half the time, leg fractures almost never happen despite hitting the leg

[hollow canyon]

@light aspen I think you might be doing things really inefficiently as a herbivore tbh. You shouldn't struggle to maintain a perfect diet at all after you first reach it unless you're doing something wrong.

In my experience although herbivore diets are definitely more annoying now due to at least two nutrients being separated by the whole map

the way it works now is a herbivore has to make a ~20-30 minute long trek in the very beginning right after spawning

and then afk the rest of the growth

I've barely moved on my Tenontos after I reached the perfect diet

[light aspen]

maybe i actually am

[hollow canyon]

Do you want some tips on how to do it to not worry about losing the perfect diet?

[light aspen]

well, i didnt see a nutrient map untill today, maybe that was all because i wandered around them a lot

[hollow canyon]

It's not just about knowing where the nutrients are, it's also about knowing how to... "handle" them

Let me write to you in DMs, I don't want to say it here lest it gets patched out

[light aspen]

do you mean getting it higher than 100%?

[hollow canyon]

Yes but not just that

[wise obsidian]

I too wish to know this secret

[hollow canyon]

@wise obsidianI'm trying to DM you but discord is wonky

[elder steppe]

will there be anything done about, carnivores and herbivores mixpacking. Just got jumped by 15 raptors, 4 pachys, and 2 tenos

i don't know how it would be possible to do anything about it but its irritating

[torpid dragon]

As an intelligent Animal, Utah should be able to determine his pray stats like its hunger, thirst, current health and blood level. In this way we can ballance this creature, at least they will know that they have to run away faster from carno than normally.

[hollow canyon]

Are you guys memeing?

[elder steppe]

if your talking to me then no, i just got jumped by the melting pot of the isle, don't know about the other guy

[wise obsidian]

Are you trying to make utah TI's Megalosaurus? Because Bob already has that. And hell no.

[hollow canyon]

Oh no, I'm not talking about you

I'm talking about Utah being an intelligent animal

[elder steppe]

well it is theorized that troodons and raptors were decently intelligent because of their pack tactic or just the way their brains were wired, don't know how true that is though

[wise obsidian]

Thats not the point

Theyre trying to make utah use superman vision

Lmao

[elder steppe]

?

heatray vision, what do you mean

[wise obsidian]

Xray vision

[elder steppe]

well thats not right

[torpid dragon]

You can determine as human if other Animals are exhausted etc, basically by its breath, so what are you Talking about superman vision

[wise obsidian]

You're talking about utah being able to see stats in real time. Breath sure, thats a given, but bleed percentage? Thirst? This isnt bob

[fresh laurel]

Utah being able to sense bleed bar in some way would be cool

Thirst and hunger sensing not needed

[hot lintel]

Oh boy, I sure do love playing not Carno now

The moment I grow a Teno I get ganged up on by 5 Carnos

I love this community

[sinful cove]

Step 1. Pick any herbivore in the selection screen
Step 2. Spawn in starving for food
Step 3. Attempt to make a 30 minute trip towards your diet food area to get a buff that carnivores get anywhere in less than half the time.
Step 4. Megapack of 10 carnos rolls up
Step 5. Brass music DUN DUUUUDOOOOOOO BMM BMMM BMMM DUN DUN return to selection screen

[hot lintel]

The gap in difficulty between carnivore diets and herbivore diets is fucking insane now

So in order for me to get all my nutrients I have to travel literally the entire map, meanwhile the carnivore just spawns in and eats a rabbit and gets the same shit I worked so hard for

[hollow canyon]

kek

Idk why my experience in this game is just so much different to yours

[wise obsidian]

What server doe

[hollow canyon]

EU2

[wise obsidian]

Holy land that repels carnos omw

[hollow canyon]

I was on EU2 the whole time yesterday and today

I mean - that is a Carno there, I simply killed it

[wise obsidian]

I guess it depends depending on server, NA servers are a nightmare

Logged in onto my teno and it wasnt even 30 secs until a carno found me. I thought it was only one, until 2 more showed up. Props to the last 2 ambushing though but i also promptly died

Havent seen a solo carno since

[hollow canyon]

there were like 2 of them I think? One of them just ran around, it didn't even want to pick a fight with me, this one tried and as you can see I gave it a one way ticket to the land of eternal hunt

[wise obsidian]

How was using tail slam and kick?

[hollow canyon]

I kicked it in the face and then tailslammed it

[wise obsidian]

Is tail slamming still viable

[hollow canyon]

I honestly was a bit surprised the kick landed

yea tailslams are ok

they do less damage but they seem to still hurt

in general I do believe that Tenonto needs a bit of a buff

the stam cost for the damage dealt is too high imo

but the animal isn't unplayable by any means

also note - I was landing headshots with the slam

[wise obsidian]

I'll grow another this patch. See how it goes. Most of all i just want its old damage back honestly

[hollow canyon]

I don't think it should have its old damage back

[wise obsidian]

Why not

[hollow canyon]

that damage was way too high

it allowed it to pack an insane patch after landing any CC

this animal would outright obliterate every animal smaller than Carno if left off with that amount of damage

Nerfing Carno's damage output down to 175N was the right call

nerfing Tenonto's damage output down from 360N was also necessary

animals of this size shouldn't be dishing out that much damage

[wise obsidian]

I most likely dont relate because as carno i killed tenos very easily, even when stunned for a little while, pre-patch. It seemed like a reasonable amount of damage done

[hollow canyon]

pre patch I've gone 1v2 and 1v3 against Carnos and won those fights as a Tenonto

and tbh - I'm hardly all that good with Tenonto

[wise obsidian]

Teno is one of those dinos with a skill ceiling

Probably the only one

[hollow canyon]

I'd say that it first of all has a skill floor

all the others can be played by any Joe Schmoe really

Tenonto requires you to at least have a decent grasp of both the game and the animal itself lest you fail with it miserably

however that is no justification to make it absurdly good

which it very much was

[wise obsidian]

If it was 360N then, how much is it now?

The slam

[hollow canyon]

I'm not sure, it's somewhere between 200 and 300 I think

imo it should be at around 300, that's my opinion

slightly below perhaps - 290? That's what I'd put it at

and decrease the stamina cost to ~7-8%?

[wise obsidian]

My entire play on teno is thrown off now because of the buffed kick and the nerfed slam

I'm unsure of what to use as my weapon. One has high stam cost, the other has a shit hitbox

[hollow canyon]

Kick still needs some fixes from what I've been hearing, people have said that it doesn't land properly, I haven't had such issues but

it needed some buffs for sure

meanwhile the slam needed some nerfs

I'd also personally make Tenonto able to walk backwards

I'd really allow all the animals to do that I've got no idea why that isn't a thing in this game

[wise obsidian]

That might not happen that soon because they already coded the movement

[hollow canyon]

Yea which combined with the fact that we can't walk backwards is just incomprehensible

[wise obsidian]

Even if you cant walk backwards at least they made it easier to turn around than clunky legacy

[hollow canyon]

yes but that doesn't say much

they should've learnt their lesson from legacy and allowed us to move backwards

there are so many issues caused by the lack of backward movement in this game

[wise obsidian]

Idk. If filipe comes in isle discussion sometime you could ask him if moving backwards is planned

[hollow canyon]

It's not

I'd have to convince him that it's important to add it

but as it is I know that they don't play on making it possible to move backwards in the game

[wise obsidian]

Ah. That idea may be out the window then

[hollow canyon]

which is a giant shame

nah, the devs just need to get convinced to it

there's multiple issues that the lack of backward movement causes in the game

it makes a tonne of the fights much dumber

and plays into killing your opponent and going full in rather than retreating

[wise obsidian]

If they are convinced, they'll have to remake an entirely new moveset, or add Button + WASD if its even that simple

And then new animations

[hollow canyon]

with animals that have front facing attacks like Carno and Deino(but it will also work for all the ceratopsids really and most of the theropods) you never want to retreat

the person that gets the first attack off wins the fight

[hollow canyon]

backward movement is far more important than the dumb courting animations they are currently working on

lack of it literally makes a tonne of the match ups rely on "who gets the first bite off"

you can never retreat if you're in a mirror match up with those animals because the person that tries to retreat will just end up exposing their back to the opponent, stopping the attack and that makes them auto-lose the fight pretty much as long as the other person is competent enough to stay on them

this will be the case with very many animals

[wise obsidian]

It depends sometimes

[hollow canyon]

sometimes

[wise obsidian]

The attacker makes a mistake, which happens regularly

[hollow canyon]

idk what kind of mistake they can make aside from missing their bites or clipping so much that they end up attacking the tail while their opponent hits their body or something

[wise obsidian]

It depends on the dinosaur, but if its a carnovteno fight, the carno turning around to make space opens up an opportunity for the teno

[hollow canyon]

oh no, I'm talking about mirror match ups

[wise obsidian]

Which is directly what your argument is actually

[hollow canyon]

meaning Carno vs Carno and Deino vs Deino

Tenonto doesn't work like that at all

it's not one of the animals I had in mind there

[wise obsidian]

Is it because its one of two that can defend its backside?

[hollow canyon]

That too, this really only applies to the animals that have front facing attacks

or whose strongest attack face their front side

you just don't want to retreat in a fight like that because you're exposing your back and your opponent gets free hits off

it might be worth it if you know that they got the first hit off and you believe you can have a chance at escaping

either way it's really dumb and honestly far more brainless than even legacy combat

[wise obsidian]

I'd say akin to legacy combat

Bite each other till one dies

[hollow canyon]

not exactly, in legacy there are things you can do due to how the attacks register there

and lack of collision

the combat there is... questionable perhaps

[wise obsidian]

Yeah but thats hitbox shenanigans, not exactly an intentional game feature

[hollow canyon]

but not quite as dumb as standing one in front of the other and having a bite-off

It's not just hitbox shenanigans it's about how the bites register during animations

you can do stuff like doublebites and so on there

[wise obsidian]

Are you referring to rex spastic head

[hollow canyon]

Nah

so the way that attacks work in the legacy is that

the whole animation of the attack causes the hit to register

as in - you need to make the contact with the bite socket during any moment of that animation to receive the damage

[wise obsidian]

Oh, wait, do you mean the attacks dragging? You bite to run through an opponent early just as your bite ends, and then another to basically bite them twice

[hollow canyon]

more experienced players use this to make contact with their opponent at the very end of the animation and then start another attack while still making contact with them to cause double damage

yes, you can call that attack dragging I guess

[glad ginkgo]

I do believe I found a solution to our carno overpopulation 👌 I posted it in balance feedback and I feel hyperintellegent lmao

[wise obsidian]

Ok ive heard of it then, but i assume its just how the game was built and your attacks werent meant to drag or anything

[hollow canyon]

@glad ginkgoIt could work, although one of the QA members created a rather extensive idea as to how to make carnivore diets be less of a freebie during the early stages of the growth, your idea seems neat too though

[hollow canyon]

idk about whether that was intended or not

but tbh it could've been changed at any time really

[glad ginkgo]

What was the QA member's idea?

[wise obsidian]

I dont think the devs were aware or anything, they probably just made some hitbox adjustments and then it came to life

[hollow canyon]

ooof, I'd have to dig it up, he posted it in Isle discussion

[wise obsidian]

You could just type it out if you remember it all

[hollow canyon]

Nah, i don't remember it, I just remember that when I read it I thought that sounded ok to me

[glad ginkgo]

Yeah it's not a college essay I don't need MLA format with sources lmao

RIP

[hollow canyon]

I've pinged him but he might be afk, I will see if he gets back to me

[glad ginkgo]

Cool

[hollow canyon]

Alright, nvm I found it

@glad ginkgo#isle-discussion message

[hollow canyon]

Also - they were aware of it, they had to be

Basically this happening or not is determined by how long the duration of the attack is

in Evrima it's just the moment when a dinosaur clasps their jaws

in legacy it's the whole animation from beginning to end

[glad ginkgo]

You mean like having pachys stay North West and the coast and Tenos staying in swamp. I like the idea of them migrating to each food group. Especially as a herd. I think that's what the devs wanted and right now it doesn't work but once nesting is out I think we'll see more of that

[hollow canyon]

That's the idea to a certain extent, yea

at least I think

[rich fractal]

just terrible way to make people move imo. forcing people to run 30 min back and forth on a scripted path is boring and anti open world. something like food depleting and growing back later would be better to prevent area camping. but either way it works mechanics interaction needs to be more frequent and the user needs more freedom in choosing their path

[hollow canyon]

Agreed, I don't like the current diets one bit

[spare badger]

This 'gameplay' is really boring

Just this over and over

[fresh laurel]

Play pot at that point lmao

[sinful cove]

dondi must have looked at PoT forcing people to do boring fetch quests to grow and added that to the isle for herbivore players out of spite

[hollow canyon]

Idk I find PoT's quest far better than... this

[rich fractal]

what do you think of my idea in general, id like feedback

[glad ginkgo]

Ive put some thought into specific areas for specific dinos and I think it would be a better system than this.

[glad ginkgo]

I think its a great idea

[fresh laurel]

i actually find pot fun

[dusky surge]

Stop

[half girder]

bro really said pounce is bad #balance-feedback message

pot is currently more fun tbh, basically herbivore gameplay lol

[hollow canyon]

Why is pounce bad? I haven't played Utah yet but I fought a trio of them as a Carno and I didn't notice them stopping when they dismounted.

[fresh laurel]

what

whats with finding it fun...

[hollow canyon]

they also haven't died when they missed it, although they did take quite a bit of damage

[half girder]

it just buggy again

[hollow canyon]

What exactly is bugged about it?

It seemed to work just fine for the Utahs that I fought

[half girder]

floating in the air lol

[fresh laurel]

it just doesnt work at times

[half girder]

they broke it again

[hollow canyon]

When it doesn't work does it just cause you to stun yourself when you should've latched onto something?

[fresh laurel]

like you start zooming around and phasing and you stop pouncing automatically

mostly happens when you pounce teno or pachy

at least for me

[half girder]

u float in the air and drop down

thats what happened to me, almost died

[hollow canyon]

I'd have to test it, I might grow a Utah in the next couple of days and check what's up with it

but I suspect it's the same old set of problems

[half girder]

pachy is more rare than dryo now

[hollow canyon]

Nah, I've seen more Pachys

[fresh laurel]

my juvie utah got bullied by 2 dryos but i managed to pin one somehow lmao

[half girder]

last time i fought them i 1v2ed them as carno

[fresh laurel]

even as a juvie utah adult dryo cant kill utah

[half girder]

poor pachy

[hollow canyon]

only 1 Dryo throughout all the time since the patch dropped and I've seen quite a couple of Pachys

[fresh laurel]

i seen more dryos than pachys (real)

[half girder]

carno didnt need the turning buff

sad times

[hollow canyon]

I've seen only one Dryo so far

[half girder]

ive seen 2 pachys in the last 20hrs i played

[fresh laurel]

tbh carno only needed easier ram

[hollow canyon]

Nah, Carno didn't need an easier ram

[half girder]

pachy turn can be reverted, or atleast tuneed

[hollow canyon]

it needed better turn while standing, that's it

[half girder]

i tail rode the poor thing

[hollow canyon]

Pachy turn definitely shouldn't have been touched though

[half girder]

old pachy was fine, just needed a dmg immune window and stun after 1 pachy hit it

so you cant keep on headbutting over and over

[hollow canyon]

Old Pachy wasn't fine at all lol

[half girder]

it was fine

[hollow canyon]

not even close, the only nerf it didn't deserve was the turn rate while ramming

idk how they reached the conclusion that that was the thing about it that needed to be nerfed

[half girder]

well, rip pachy now

free food ig

[hollow canyon]

idk about that, two of my acquintances are playing them right now and they seem to be doing just fine from what they've been saying

[half girder]

killed like 5 so far without taking dmg

turn + cam + shit dmg to mid tier

[hollow canyon]

its damage hasn't been touched

[half girder]

headbutt to a carno should deal massive dmg

feels like it, weird

[hollow canyon]

for Pachy's size it does

but iirc its damage output depends on how long you charge it

[half girder]

tested it and headbutt only deals 10%

[hollow canyon]

How long have you charged it for?

[half girder]

full charge

[hollow canyon]

Because that seems like way too low

[half girder]

idk, it was weird

[hollow canyon]

that does sound weird because Pachy's fully charged headbutt dealt over 200 dmg from what I recall and I know that they haven't touched it

[half girder]

doesnt seem like it lol

[hollow canyon]

it's nowhere in the patch notes and the QA have confirmed that the damage output of Pachy wasn't tinkered with

[half girder]

its weird

[hollow canyon]

might be a bug

[half girder]

yes, like the no reg bug too

[hollow canyon]

tbh bugs like these are really problematic if they ever occur because the devs don't let us know how much damage those abilities are actually supposed to be doing

[half girder]

i think pachy is dogshit rn idk\

[hollow canyon]

so it's just a lot of guesswork

[half girder]

eat coconut, grass, plant.. become free food

-2hrs

[dusky surge]

stop that

[fresh laurel]

what

is wrong with finding pot fun

ill admit quests need to be more fun

[half girder]

it isnt but rn it is lol

a game besides bob to cope on

@fresh laurel you want a utah to be able to pounce in mud??

[fresh laurel]

yea

rn mud camping just counters utah like nothing lmao

should at least make you still have to think more

[half girder]

i mean pouncing onto something while its in mud sure, but not pounce while youre in the mud

[fresh laurel]

as long as the dinosaur in mud still feels somewhat scared of a utah pack

[half girder]

oasis mudpool is abit busted

needs to be smaller lol

[fresh laurel]

eh

kinda

[half girder]

but yeah, pouncing while the thing is in mud sure, utah would be so busted otherwise

[fresh laurel]

not really...

you would still have the hp advantage lol

like if utah could pounce in mud carno would prob just walk down utah since they both cant run and kill utah

just find it dumb how hard mud counters utah lol

[half girder]

it counters most things lol

not only utah

[fresh laurel]

utah is the only carnivore that doesnt benefit from it at all

[half girder]

being able to pounce in mud then teno should tail slam

and pachy alt bite

[fresh laurel]

you have deino chilling fine in mud

[half girder]

and stego tail swing

[fresh laurel]

you might be going to far there bruv...

ik...

[half girder]

idk man

[fresh laurel]

im saying how utah is the only meat eater who cant benefit from it

[half girder]

utah would be really busted..

[fresh laurel]

and if anything gets countered

[half girder]

if nothing can use thier ability then it shouldnt either

[fresh laurel]

would be busted because you are staying in mud?

[half girder]

i killed a carno in the big mud pool easily, just wait for it to get thirsty

BBOOOOOM BIG BRAIN

[fresh laurel]

yea except if you have lower thirst...

[half girder]

one stay other go?

switchy

[fresh laurel]

if you both need water...

[half girder]

u solo hunt carnos?

man utah is op

[fresh laurel]

and hoping carno needs thirst is not exactly a viable option

[half girder]

they rremoved bushes pushing utah off, i think its fine now

[fresh laurel]

its funny how almost every thing that kinda big can camp mud to just say no to utah

[half girder]

for now.

[fresh laurel]

like having a good bleed hunt going?

yea no mud was near sorry bud

[half girder]

i have no prob hunting rn lol

[fresh laurel]

im not saying utah is bad at hunting

[half girder]

i know but about the mudpool thing

[fresh laurel]

im saying mud just counters it pretty dumb

[dusky surge]

unless every single prey item you hunt is near mud 24/7, it's really not that huge an issue

[fresh laurel]

mr rex

[half girder]

idk man rarely happens to me

[dusky surge]

Also pachy suffers more in mud than utah so if it climbs into mud you kinda just win

[fresh laurel]

new name...

[half girder]

sonic this take

[fresh laurel]

?

what take

[half girder]

mud is fine, utah is fine

[dusky surge]

So specifically the only two animals that benefit from sitting their asses in mud are carno and maybe stego?

mainly carno since it can actually utilise its powerful bite

everything else can just be bit to death

[fresh laurel]

utah trying to face tank teno in mud (real)

[dusky surge]

you literally do more damage than it can

[fresh laurel]

but yea allowing more special moves in mud in general would be better...

[half girder]

naw

[dusky surge]

then utah would be countered in mud more lmao

[fresh laurel]

hp advantage sir

[half girder]

switch utahs

duhhhhh

[dusky surge]

if you're solo hunting a teno then ???

[fresh laurel]

if you can aim pounce well then prob not

[dusky surge]

Dude. You have your speed massively decreased

You'd get fucking destroyed on dismount

[fresh laurel]

true...

anyways back to pounce for mud

[dusky surge]

No

Dumb for only utah to be able to use it ability in mud

[fresh laurel]

alt attacks?

[dusky surge]

Especially when biting's effectiveness is vastly increased in mud as the other animals can't use their bties

[fresh laurel]

allowing that maybe?

[dusky surge]

Then utah gets shredded faster

Because pachy and teno have far better alt-attacks

[half girder]

bro..

[dusky surge]

I have literally waited for pachys to wallow so I can bully them as utah and they can't do jack in the mud lmao

[half girder]

same lol

[fresh laurel]

[dusky surge]

All your suggestions make utah worse in the mud

[fresh laurel]

im just saying ideas

not exactly saying my final thought

[dusky surge]

Utah is literally really good in mud right now unless against specifically carno, stego or deino (deino being rare due to the massive thirst drain)

Also I genuinely don't think utah should even be trying to hunt carno but

[fresh laurel]

well we know utah is able to kill carno if good

but my main point is its kinda weird to have like 3 or 2 of the roster just completely benefit from mud like this

[dusky surge]

And a carno is able to fucking school the utah if he knows how to deal with it. A good utah vs a braindead carno will lead to a dead carno

[fresh laurel]

good utah pack vs good carno

i would say pack wins

[dusky surge]

Carno can still win and survive

[half girder]

carno could win

[fresh laurel]

same with utah if they know what they are doing

its a pretty fair fight depending on number of utahs if both dinos know what to do

[dusky surge]

It literally has a fucking massive runspeed, utah's pounce relies on hitting large, slow-moving targets. If the carno is smart, the utah will not be able to hit the pounce and get fucked

[fresh laurel]

you can try having 1 or 2 pack mates try and get carno to drift while you get close enough

or you could do the weird face tank pounce and land it

[half girder]

rex what do you think of pachy rn

want to know ur thoughts

[dusky surge]

still don't think utah should be hunting an animal it not only struggles to even catch/attack while said animal can fucking obliterate them in one use of their ability

[fresh laurel]

to be fair carno landing ram can let it beat most of the roster

land ram on teno usually decides the fight

[dusky surge]

i like most changes, just think that the diets = growth thing is lame. Growth boosts should have less to do with diets and more to do with more interesting factors, like territorialism in some animals. Also a buff where pachy can hold the ram indefinitely and cancel it whenever it wants would be cool, considering it has a weaker turn radius when charging ram, a change i like

[half girder]

i really dont like the turning, that combined with the close cam

[dusky surge]

honestly, i think diets could be way more interesting if they were more focused on physical stat buffs and were separated from growth entirely. Juvi carni diets and more have been dumbed down specifically because of this shitty growth tie-in

[half girder]

cam should be an option

[dusky surge]

I like the turning and the cam personally. Turning makes sense for how the move works and the cam requires more focus and awareness

I still think the ram should be able to be held indefinitely if they're adding a turn debuff to it

[half girder]

i feel like youd have to be really immersed to enjoy pachy now which is def gonna lower the player count in the future

[dusky surge]

Would make the charged ram also be a "threaten" or warning display to get people to fuck off

[half girder]

well maybe not lower but i dont see pachy being much fun in time

ty for ur thoughts btw

[dusky surge]

Alt-bite still slaps hard

lmao

Love the alt-bite into downwards facing ram combo on utah

[half girder]

meh, rather tap charge the head for fracture

at least i can still hurt utahs really bad

[dusky surge]

I mean, tap charge does same damage as downwards ram iirc

[half girder]

faster tho

[dusky surge]

speed doesn't matter if they're knocked down

I also LOVE the body fracture buff

[half girder]

idk

[dusky surge]

The 2x stam drain is fucking brutal

[half girder]

body still feels ass to me

ran down a pachy with it

should deal self harm, broken ribs after all

[dusky surge]

I think it does if you jump?

[half girder]

nope.

tested it

also head fracture.. should deal self harm if u bite something

[dusky surge]

nah man, head fracture brutal enough as is

[half girder]

putting pressure on ur broken jaw?

[dusky surge]

it fucking halves your damage atm

[half girder]

would be nice tho

considering carno can stil take out a pachy with one

cuz it heals mid battle lol

[dusky surge]

it used to make your damage a quarter but that was nerfed because it was insane

[half girder]

silly

[alpine plover]

Doesn't half anymore

Unless they reverted it

[dusky surge]

Yea it does?

[alpine plover]

Thought they nerfed head fractures

[dusky surge]

They did

[alpine plover]

Unless they reverted it

[dusky surge]

It used to fucking quarter your damage

[alpine plover]

No?

[dusky surge]

Yes

[alpine plover]

It was half before

[dusky surge]

Whatever floats ya boat man but I’m saying what I tested

I really don’t care enough to get into an argument where I literally tested the values but whatever

[keen plover]

it was 43.5N damage before- which is a quarter

Idk about current pachy

[alpine plover]

@cosmic geyser no, not again teno being able to vanish half of the health of a carno because it tail slam it twice after stunning it with a first one

And if to that you add bone fracture then if after the 3 tail slams the carno gets a leg fracture the carno is basicly dead because of one mistake, but if teno miss a slam he just get bited once and still have 90+% of health

[cosmic geyser]

Teno can't run, you dumbass

Basic balance

Teno has no say in terms of fight happening or not

He can only fight back

Even if carno's hurt, he can still safely pester teno and stay close

During UP4 Teno v Carno was fair and balanced

Carno could still do it, and Teno could still kill carno

@alpine plover

[alpine plover]

@cosmic geyser but what you asked for is teno being better than prepatch, also there is no necceity of calling me dumbass

[cosmic geyser]

If you can only fight back and not run, you should have major advantage over attacker

It was fair and balanced in 1v1 scenario

[alpine plover]

So the predator has to always have the disadvantage, or cant catch it or cant kill it

Not fair

[cosmic geyser]

Carno overpopulation has been always a thing

[alpine plover]

I know

[cosmic geyser]

Ever since it got added to evrima

[alpine plover]

Overpopulation will get fixed with cerato

[cosmic geyser]

^

But till then, we gotta do smth

And honestly I really doubt devs will prioritize cera over troo

[undone rapids]

well, Troo is next confirmed playable

[cosmic geyser]

The "we can wait for solution in next update" way of thinking fails in terms of The Isle

[alpine plover]

Yes , and confirmed doestn mean any other playable wont be added before

[cosmic geyser]

cause updates are slow

Are we supposed to play Carno Simulator till they add cera? No

[alpine plover]

During night update animator will have time to make playable animations as they dont have anything to do with night and night vision update

[cosmic geyser]

We need alrernative/placeholder solution first

[alpine plover]

Nerf could solve the problem but it would make another one, so nerf is not an option

[cosmic geyser]

A mild nerf would work fine

I might've went a bit too far with fracture shit in my suggestion indeed

[alpine plover]

I prefer they give teno its prepatch stats

[cosmic geyser]

But teno does need a buff/carno a nerf

Might be

[alpine plover]

the problem is that when you say nerf carnos what devs understand is: make carno shit and buff al herbivores till they are broken op

[ripe furnace]

Cera in 2 years

[alpine plover]

Your lack of faith disturbs me

[ripe furnace]

🎫

[cyan arch]

30km/h is kinda ridiculous if u think about the inseam of its long legs. I mean even i run faster then that. Maybe u missubderstood something and it whas ment that it dont NEED to run faster then 30km/h, but that its not able to is rly ridiculous.

[ripe furnace]

Vicariously

[alpine plover]

It's been a long time since we know raptors (dromeosaurids) arent fast compared to the fast dinoa

[slim dragon]

It's not jut a matter of leg length. It's a matter of muscle, body mass and proportions. Also, if you do run over 30 km/h, congratulations, you should apply for Olympic games, cause that's very impressive for a human being.

[cyan arch]

Well its not rly impressive, Top speeds from Footballplayers are 34km/h, so if u do continuously sport, everyone is able to do so. And leg length is one of the most important factors in being able to be fast, thats simple maths. And, with that body of a Raptor, its superlight Bones, where do u think comes the weight from ?? Of course most of it comes from its Legs and the msucles....Legs most likely the heavyst part of an creature whos going on 2 Legs.

[slim dragon]

Muscle doesn't always serve to go faster. And I don't know where you get those 34 km/h from, the average hhuman running speed is around 18 km/h, up to 24-25 for athletes.
According to most recent studies, irl Utah was strong, bulky and designed to hunt the biggest prey around by overpowering them. It was an apex predator in its place and time. If it did run fast, there is no evidence for it.

[cyan arch]

Erling Haaland (Borussia Dortmund) – 36,04 km/h.

Alphonso Davies (Bayern München) – 35,95 km/h.

Maxence Lacroix (VfL Wolfsburg) – 35,75 km/h.

Kingsley Coman (Bayern München) – 35,68 km/h.

Rabbi Matondo (FC Schalke) – 35.66 km/h.

Thats to ur knowledge about speed

[slim dragon]

Are those people on the "average" part of the spectrum ?

I know some athletes can run insanely fast, but that's extremely rare, even on highly trained people standards. Besides, that's not really the point.

[cyan arch]

Yeah...Standarts....keep comparing an killing mashine whos gotta fight for his life in every single second of it life with western civilizations couch potatos

[slim dragon]

I'm not comparing utahraptor with humans

[alpine plover]

I don't really know where your discussion is going, it wont change anything, devs dont care bout physics

[slim dragon]

That's true

[carmine patrol]

They nerfed it by 180 not 100, the teno tail slam damage was literally halfed

[dusky surge]

Not true

180 is thrown around all the time, despite literally being wrong

[ripe furnace]

Some mod told me otherwise so I just stuck to what he said

[carmine patrol]

You told me to check by only landing head shots and it still took 7 hits

180

[dusky surge]

Why not try

Hitting a utah

[carmine patrol]

Tbh I never tried that, but even I'd it took 2 shots it wouldn't matter cus it still takes 10 to kill a carno

[carmine patrol]

Also how are you so sure that uit does more than 180?

Did you try?

[dusky surge]

Because I'm QA. It's my duty to know.

Also because I tested, yes

[carmine patrol]

How many hits then?

I tested like 7 times and it was always the same result

[ripe furnace]

This guy gets it ^

[spare badger]

How much does it do?

[dusky surge]

I think people are around right in saying it does 100 less than it did before

[spare badger]

260ish?

Honestly just making the stam usage lower and fixing kick wills allow teno to move around more which would me nice

[carmine patrol]

how do you know?

[spare badger]

The 180 number came out because someone said it took 10 hits to kill a carno
If it is 260 it would take 7

[carmine patrol]

did it take 7 body shots?

[carmine patrol]

it was me

it took me 10 body shots

I tested 7 times and always got the same result

7 head shots

[spare badger]

How many hits to kill a Utah?

[carmine patrol]

didn't check on utah

I can do it now tho

[spare badger]

If it's 3 body shots it's damage is 150 or higher

If it's 2 it will be 225 or higher

[carmine patrol]

if it takes 3 then I'm right and it does 180

[spare badger]

I think so yes

Test kick while you're at it

[carmine patrol]

kick does 300

I tested it before

[spare badger]

Exactly 300?

[carmine patrol]

somewhere around it

not more than 330

not less than 280

probably 300

it took 6 body shots for carno

[hollow canyon]

Alright, there's a lot of misinformation in this channel - 10 bodyshots killing Carno means that Tenonto deals MORE than 180 damage(we know that it does somewhere between 200 and 300 but that's beside the point)

Kick would have to do more than 300 to 6shot a Carno with bodyshots

You might've hit a neckshot or a headshot though so idk

Utah dies to 2(tailslam) bodyshots, that's confirmed

[hollow canyon]

it can though

[hollow canyon]

no it wasn't

[hollow canyon]

and... that's how it is now too

picture from yesterday

[spare badger]

U4 was barely not balanced
Teno just had slam and it was boring and could technically 1 shot carno sometimes
Which was dumb
The matchup itself was close to ok

[hollow canyon]

No, it wasn't anywhere close to ok lol

I was fighting off 2+ Carnos at once

[spare badger]

Like
1 carno could do it if they are smart and 2 can do it much easier

[hollow canyon]

if Tenonto was good it could fight off multiple Carnos at once

it wasn't balanced, it's as simple as that

[spare badger]

Perhaps you are correct

[hollow canyon]

anyone that says that Tenonto was balanced in update 4 is delusional

[spare badger]

I'll concede to that

[hollow canyon]

the fact that people were saying "I can 1v2 Carnos as a Tenonto now, this match up has never been this well balanced" pretty much says it all

Because yes - Tenonto could 1v2 on that patch

Hell it could 1v3 in certain situations

I've never killed 3 Carnos at once but I did fight groups of 3 alone at once

on more than one occasion

so yea that was not "balanced"

[spare badger]

Can it though? It's much slower and any loss of stam is detrimental to its combat capabilities when it gets caught up to
And water is very situation, and since teno isn't really a semi aquatic it's not always gonna be beside a river and teno cant outswim a deino

It can get to a forest but tracking is extremely good rn so if the carno's want they can always find you

[carmine patrol]

yep, I tested it and it took 3 body shots for utah

[wintry mountain]

Then you hit legs or tail

[carmine patrol]

nope

I tested 3 times

[wintry mountain]

I would suggest more, as that figure isn't accurate

[spare badger]

How much is it?

Wave said it was ~260

[wintry mountain]

Aiming just ahead of the legs and performing multiple tests, I've been two shotted and two shotted utah

We can give you the value remember

Cant

[hollow canyon]

Honestly if you're not somewhere in the vicinity of the water then you're playing the animal wrong. The one plant that grows the furthest from the water on Tenonto's diet is radish but it's still close-by the river.

[wintry mountain]

Though that itself is starting to cause massive heaeaches

[hollow canyon]

Someone has to go, be a Pachy and then let a Tenonto slam their back and take a screenshot

post it here and I will count the pixels and calculate how much damage it does

Also - Tenonto DOES need a buff

the stamina cost for the tailslam right now is just preposterous

[spare badger]

It was near radish
It took a while to get to the river but when I did (try) to escape a deino ate me cause teno isn't fast enough to escape deino

[wintry mountain]

How many uses ideally, Aken

Ball Park number

[hollow canyon]

I'd go with 15 personally

[spare badger]

I would also say 15

[hollow canyon]

not sure if I wouldn't go with the same cost as the kick

[primal folio]

adding more dinosaurs to this game is never going to fix balance or overpopulation issues. Ever. Really don't understand why people think this. lol

[hollow canyon]

since they iirc do the same damage now

[wintry mountain]

Kick does slightly more

[spare badger]

Doesn't kick do more?

[wintry mountain]

• bleed

[hollow canyon]

alright in that case tail slam has no right to cost more than kick

I'd go with it costing as much as the kick does for now

[spare badger]

I'd say give it 15 slams, fix kicks hitbox and let's see how itd balanced from there

They shouldn't overbuff it
Just change it a little at a time

[wintry mountain]

My only cause for concern on tail slam stamina changes is the cc tbch

Teno had always been in a weird spot of having to blend such a long reaching attack that also has cc, and decent damage output

But I don't disagree after current looks

A stam rearrangement would benefit

[hollow canyon]

Fair enough, I mean maybe let's go with 15 for now

it is a really potent combo indeed

[alpine plover]

Yes, it will fix carno overpopulation, and obviously it wont fix balance issues, I mean, how is adding more pieces to an equation going to make it easier? I never said that

[spare badger]

The combo rn is slam, kick then claw when it runs yea?

[hollow canyon]

I personally did kick into tailslam tbh that was just bad because I could've kept on kicking but oh well, worked just fine for me it seems

[wintry mountain]

Personally I only use slam if they're out of range of my kick

My personal style is to play pseudo offensively and spin n kick as they turn away from me

[hollow canyon]

I was landing headshots though so the Carno seemed to be melting

[spare badger]

Yea slam isn't as good for DPs anymore compared to kick

[dusky surge]

honestly i just want tail to have some utility. If kick is damage, stun and bleed at the cost of moderate stam and limited range, claws are bleed and quick damage with a low stam cost at the cost of no stun, tail should be a long poke tool with decent damage, stun and MAYBE fracture at a high stam cost. The fracture immediately gives it utility without making it spammable, and if you just spam the thing hoping for that fracture, you might just die

[carmine patrol]

ok, I'll test again, Idk why you and wave have such big difficulties believing that it does 180N

[alpine plover]

@primal folio and nerfing carno is less of a solution than adding another mid tier

[primal folio]

Ah yes. So everyone who plays carno will play cerato instead. Again, adding dinosaurs to this game has never helped with balancing dino population. Legacy is a shining example of that.

[hollow canyon]

probably because he knows it doesn't

[wintry mountain]

I don't believe it because I know what it is, and I've tested it

Kinda have to in order to make sure it isn't bugged

[spare badger]

Yea definitely

[dusky surge]

god imagine QA testers knowing stuff about the game they test lmao

[carmine patrol]

but why does it take 10 shots to kill carno when I test it?

isn't it weird?

[alpine plover]

I dont care legacy, carni is most played cause there isnt other options, but dont worry, I understand you are the kind od people that needs to see to believe

[hollow canyon]

for starters - if it dealt 180 damage you WOULDN'T be killing a Carno with 10 tailslams

[carmine patrol]

bro

[spare badger]

Imagine QA knowing the general damage ranges

[carmine patrol]

carno has 1800 hp

[dusky surge]

it also has constant HP regen

[hollow canyon]

yes, do you know how hp regen works in this game?

Before you can throw out 10 tailslams it will have regenerated quite a bit of hp and you will need AT LEAST one more tailslam

[dusky surge]

By the time you land all of those tail slams, it's regained at least 1HP, making it require another slam

[hollow canyon]

^

[carmine patrol]

it was on a server I have admin on so I wasn't in a real fight, I told my friend to stand still and I slammed

[dusky surge]

cool, doesnt stop the hp regen

[hollow canyon]

what does that have to do with what we just told you?

[dusky surge]

its not like your friend standing still decreases HP regen lmao

[carmine patrol]

so?
It still doesn't change the fact that you need 10 slams

[hollow canyon]

it means that the tailslam literally doesn't deal 180 damage

[dusky surge]

it does prove it literally can't be 180 damage tho

[spare badger]

Yea therefore it does more that 180 then

[hollow canyon]

It has to deal more than 180, we know that it does more than that so stop spreading misinformation

[primal folio]

legacy is a nice example of many things, not sure why you wouldn't use it as an indicator of trends, but you do you. I know exactly how this playerbase operates, so expect to see a million ceratos instead of a million carnos. And how is carni most played cuz there are no other options? There are far more dinosaurs in Legacy, so that comment doesn't make a lick of sense. Unless you meant Evrima?

[carmine patrol]

does carno regen 180 hp in the span of 10 seconds?

[dusky surge]

no, but it can regen 1 HP

[spare badger]

It doesn't require another 180 health to keep living

[dusky surge]

1801 - 180 x 10 = 1

carno isnt dead

[carmine patrol]

so let's say 9 slams if that is true

[dusky surge]

the ENTIRE point being made here

is the fact that it isn't 180 damage

that's literally fucking it

[spare badger]

Just go test it again

[carmine patrol]

well then it means that it's 185

[dusky surge]

awesome

[carmine patrol]

maybe 200

[dusky surge]

just pull another number out your ass

[carmine patrol]

XD

[dusky surge]

i'll guarantee it's still wrong

because i know the value, and it's not that

[carmine patrol]

it's not more than 200

[alpine plover]

Well first weeks, there will be cera overpopulation like it will happen with troodon first weeks, allo, trex, etc... If another mid tier is not an option, then what is the best option, that doesnt include a carno nerf (cause he is ok)

[dusky surge]

it is

but tell yourself whatever the hell you want man

i wont stop you

just letting you know as an informed source that has a responsibility of testing all values within the game, you are spouting outright misinformation

[carmine patrol]

well let's say that it does 260, why does it take 10 hits?

[dusky surge]

simple. The hitboxes in this game are very jank

They have weird things going on behind the scene

[spare badger]

Probably hitting leg somehow

[dusky surge]

You can't see it but they are odd in how they act

[carmine patrol]

so do head shots count as body shots?

[primal folio]

No, carno definitely needs to be reverted back to the stats it had prior to this patch. Should not be turning on a dime when it's the fastest land dino in the game. They had no reason to even touch anything on carno outside of hunger values. The nerfs to pachy were more than enough to balance our current roster. Carno never struggled to hunt anything, so the turn radius adjustment should have never been done.

[dusky surge]

no

[spare badger]

It's the isle
hitboxes and hurtboxes are weird

[dusky surge]

Headshots count as headshots

[carmine patrol]

still took me 7 hits to the head

[spare badger]

You just hit body

[carmine patrol]

I'll test again

just to be 100% sure

[alpine plover]

I knew, it had to be nerfing carno, better try fixing your skill issue, preparch carno is shited by solo pachys, better buff the herbis to prepatch state, and new mid tier will solve carno megapacking, remember my name

[old hull]

seeing how much people are complaining about actually having to travel as a herbivore really saddens me

[spare badger]

It's not that you have to travel
It's that you have to travel basically the whole map as a baby

And baby carnivores don't

That's the problem

[old hull]

then the issue is not that herbivores have to , its that carnivores dont

for some damn reason the current carnivore diets were deemed "good enough"

even tho they are absolute garbage

[spare badger]

The issue is carnis have it really easy which leads to overpopulation

[old hull]

agreed ^

[alpine plover]

I dont know what is the problem in saying what they really want is a nerf to carnivore diet, not a buff for herbi's

[primal folio]

I know you think this a gottem, but it's not. lol I rarely even play carno. It's the most boring dinosaur in the roster, next to stego. Easy to grow, easy to kill and easy to play. No frontal lobe required. And I have never died to a solo pachy as an adult carno. Pachy was useless and slow. You can easily bait out its charge. Ironic you're saying 'skill issue' when you were clearly dying as a carno to solo pachys lol Now that I'm thinking about this, not sure why I'm debating this with someone named 'dinofan343'

[alpine plover]

I guess accepting your envy is not a good feeling

[old hull]

i got no issue with that part of it , i actually agree 100% , but those who are just saying herb diet is bad because they have to move now are stupid

[rich fractal]

its not moving thats bad, its rarity to the point where exploring is punished cause you didnt follow your farming route that is fundementally wrong

[alpine plover]

I didnt said the pachy thing was my experience, also is obviouly you didnt played carno much becauss you would know prepatch carno wasnt good for a carno, it had the power of a fast cerato, but as I said wait when we get cerato and you see the carno megapacks dissapear

[primal folio]

[alpine plover]

Ok lol, its you the one that cant kill carnos now because they can turn faster

[old hull]

yes because if you had another carnivore that shits on carno it totally wont just replace the problem with another one

[primal folio]

he doesn't understand that

timmy thinks game balance is 'YEP ADD DINOS!'

that's why we have legacy

[alpine plover]

Yeah, it should be cerato or bary, being cerato cause is more finished, also is a different niche, so it would just give more options for mid tier player, obviously im not saying somwthing like allo

[old hull]

whatever dino you choose is irrelevant , you add anything that isnt exactly a 50/50 match with carno and everyone megapacking with carno atm will just swap to insert carnivore here

or worse , they will mixpack with both

adding more dinos will NOT fix the problem

[sinful cove]

oh god this convo is happening again lol

[naive pond]

gonna cry?not everyone is a nerd in this game

[sinful cove]

dinofan really still thinks adding another animal will magically solve the carno plague

[alpine plover]

Ok, yes, the problem is you think carno megapacking is caused by the buff, when the buff is just better turning, the problem would be the herbi nerf not the carno buff

[hollow canyon]

more like not everyone is all that good at thinking

[old hull]

nah their recent stat buffs were not really the cause , had they left it exactly the same but changed the hunger you would see megapacking anyway

[alpine plover]

Better than think a nerf would fix it, it only would cause another problem, if your solution was buffing herbis I would be ok, I mean, why nerfing carno? Better buff herbis

[old hull]

its stupid easy to grow and you have nothing to fear being the fastest , of course everyone is playing it

[alpine plover]

Then the problem is growing not the buff

[hollow canyon]

it's also the largest theropod in the game

release Allo and you will have everyone playing it

release Alberto and everyone will jump on that

release Rex and... you get the idea

[sinful cove]

combat balance has a big factor on roster diversity in a server. i dont care much about carno's changes but with that and the herbivore nerfs, plus the diet problem, carno has exploded in population. that is just objectively true

simply adding another dino wont solve the problem

[hollow canyon]

I mean herbivores definitely need buffs

that's a given

[alpine plover]

Ok, while your solution for carno megapacks is not nerfing carnos then I'm ok with it

[sinful cove]

it will either just transfer the problem to a new dino, the new dino wont be good enough to fix the problem, or we'll just have megapacks of carno and the new dino eating eachother and everything else on the server

[dusky surge]

i do love dinofan's intense fear of his main being nerfed

[old hull]

indeed

[hollow canyon]

I'd argue that their diets need improvements but you get a number of people who think it's ok to have fresh spawns make their way all across the map

[alpine plover]

Just give them their prapatch stats

[hollow canyon]

with how the game gets balanced can you blame him?

[dusky surge]

i dont disagree with him, i think things should be stronger, not carno weaker

[hollow canyon]

Every single time the equilibrium somehow gets swung way too hard the other way

It's like... we can't have that many balance changes all at once

[sinful cove]

some people who are THAT desperate to be forced in to moving are ok with it, but the rest of them are hard pushed over to the carni faction because they essentially get a free ride to adult

[alpine plover]

Is the only thing I'm saying, carno is right, juat buff herbis

[hollow canyon]

the free ride to adult isn't a given

[old hull]

putting aside all the megapacking and diets problems , carno did not need any changes to its previous patch with maybe the tweaks to the charge , why the devs felt the need to make the supposed to be fast yet not agile sprinter agile again is beyond me

[sinful cove]

ok, its a free ride unless you spawn next to spawn camping bush hackers which happens to both factions

[alpine plover]

And why i want i knew playable is because I want cerato

[hollow canyon]

I haven't had much more trouble growing Tenonto than Carno

they were about as difficult and I had to move with both about as much

idk maybe I'm really unlucky with Carno or really lucky with Tenonto

but with Tenonto I basically had to walk for 20 minutes to then sit for the rest of my growth every time

[sinful cove]

i barely have to move from where i spawn at southwest before i afk in a bush by the cliff of on the beach

[hollow canyon]

When i tried growing on that beach I ended up seeing just one turtle spawn there

and left the area

[alpine plover]

The problem was that when people asked for carno buf devs understood: ok that means buffing carno and nerfing herbis to the ground, because instead of just one change and testing, they have to implement all the changes at once

[hollow canyon]

Idk it didn't seem like a good spot at all

[sinful cove]

unlucky i guess, i see a lot of turtles. there are especially ones spawned a bit further down against the rock space that often get missed by other people

and just a teeny bit north from that beach i always find boars

[hollow canyon]

At the same time with Tenonto it's literally just spawn in the north west, eat radish, go south east and sit afk for an hour

it is a big trek but once you make it once you really don't have to move for the rest of your growth... like at all

[sinful cove]

at the same time with tenonto its make a long trip for the last diet buff, vs carni take 20 steps to kill an ai or eat one of the many bodies left behind by the roving murder hoards

[hollow canyon]

I think it might be worse on Pachy and Stego since I don't think they get to spawn on top of their plants

[sinful cove]

i find lots of dead carnos just laying around, they really do just be killing eachother en masse

[hollow canyon]

I've never found a dead Carno that I haven't killed myself

[sinful cove]

i find a lot of them near the river

usually

[hollow canyon]

Hmm... I don't like that spawn point

I pretty much always spawn in south east as Carno

[sinful cove]

i almost always spawn there at the river separating south from center

plentiful food, some bad luck if bush hackers are there but i see them by swamp river too

[hollow canyon]

That's the southern spawn point?

[sinful cove]

yeah i spawn in the south/southwest or what ever region area

[hollow canyon]

Yea, I know which one

[sinful cove]

on both utah and carno i have great luck there, as pachy i used to grow there too

[hollow canyon]

I hated it since update 4 since it seemed really hard to maneuver around that area, I almost never spawn there

[sinful cove]

the area near the river itself definitely is frustrating, past that its pretty easy

[hollow canyon]

the river just seems annoying to me

[versed rune]

The entire area of south is busted for growing carno right now lol

[hollow canyon]

yea, it's the river part

[sinful cove]

lots of big rock walls and dropoffs close to the river

[hollow canyon]

past that I don't have an issue with that region but the river part gives me a headache

[sinful cove]

if i head northwest rather than straight north from that region there is an easier access river but its a longer trip by a handful of minutes, plus theres a shallow spot at that river that i can dodge deinos with unless that got removed recently, because i havent been there recently

[carmine patrol]

I agree with that tbh

It's mostly cus herbies are hard to grow and stupidly weak

So nobody plays them

Poor guy, he gets bodied by carno

Even pre patch a good solo carno could kill a good teno if they're patient

Now you need no skill to kill a teno

[alpine plover]

Yeah, the carno needed to outskill it, like teno now

[slim dragon]

It should be the other way around
Teno should have the advantage against carno in a fight

[spare badger]

Yup

[alpine plover]

But it was absurd before, thank to the stun, after one slam teno could hit othe two vanishing half carnos health with no effort

[carmine patrol]

Now teno doesn't stand a chance unless it's a pro player

[spare badger]

If the carno was stupid it could do it in 1 stun

[slim dragon]

There is a middle ground between Teno killing carno in two slams and teno being unable to fend off one

[spare badger]

Give teno less stam drain on slam now

[versed rune]

I think the best course of action right now is to mess with tenonto’s stam cost for attacks and passive stam regen

[carmine patrol]

Yes

[versed rune]

Because buffing it’s damage again puts you right back at square one

[carmine patrol]

I love the new fight style for teno

[spare badger]

Give it 15 slams since it's weaker, it also allows teno to escape 2 carnos more easily cause it can run for longer after using an attack

Teno can be good if slam wasn't so expensive

[alpine plover]

No, i kill carnos easy, maybe cause i main carno and know all weak spots

[carmine patrol]

But it needs some buffs

[spare badger]

And IF KICK ACTUALLY WORKS

[versed rune]

The thing just can’t attack rapidly enough to defend against carno right now, which to be fair, carno should have an offensive onslaught playstyle

Also the kick

Tf did they do to it

[spare badger]

It was always that bad

[versed rune]

All they had to do was speed up the old animation slightly and increase the damage

[spare badger]

The kick I mean

[carmine patrol]

How'd you manage to grow in the first place?