balance-feedback-discussion

[regal tulip]

yeah but if you got hit it was legit faster to grow another one with how slow it healed

[hasty coyote]

Wait in the middle? Are you 100?

[slim dragon]

roughly

[viscid mica]

@hearty chasm you almost cooked until you asked for Maia buffs

[dusky surge]

why would asking for maia buffs be a bad thing? it's literally getting buffs because it's underperforming against stuff like allo

[viscid mica]

Why are we trying to fight allos as the big runner

[dusky surge]

its not about fighting

there's also the fact anything but adult/elder is absolutely worthless

[viscid mica]

Then address that specifically

“Buff Maia” is too vague for something plenty strong as an adult

[hearty chasm]

What the other dude said, for a hadrosaur it’s under performing against stuff like cerato, let alone an allo. I’d also make a point for carno vs Maia fights but Carnos agility is just as bad as maias

[dusky surge]

i dont think anyone is expecting it to murder allos with ease tbh

since, y'know, it has no weapons

[viscid mica]

Maia completely destroys cera thou…

[hearty chasm]

Depends, is it a good cera? If it is you’re pretty much screwed no matter how good you are as a Maia

[viscid mica]

Uhhhh no….?

If the maia understands atleast the basics it will never lose to a cera

Shove, stomp, shove, stomp

[hearty chasm]

stomp does 200 damage which is sad

I mean Maia is pretty balanced in its current state

But like I said it’s under performing

If it did 400 maybe 500 it’ll actually stand a chance

Ok nvm 500 might be over buffing it

[hasty coyote]

it does 2 hits of 175, so 350

the back kicks are doing like 200 tho

(unless it got shadow nerfed on ht and I didnt hear about it)

[lunar crater]

instead of buffing the smaller dinos to be able to compete more with cera how about nerfing ceras charged bite lol lets the cera deal about double if not more then double its normal bite attack and is fully charged in less then 3 seconds. cera able to dish out 500 damage per bite ( dont know the exact number got told its around that) makes absolutely 0 sense... corpse bully more like mr want to fight everything anywhere anytime

[viscid mica]

No no still same

[dusky surge]

@primal heart #balance-feedback message
or just remove the mutation because it's broken lol

the solution is right there, it's so obvious

remove the mutation, change around herbivore stam (namely maia and stego)

[primal heart]

Agree that

However, I never directly state the outcome I most desire to achieve, because many people are reluctant to accept it.

[mental roost]

I saw that video

that part was genuinely disgusting to watch

[dusky surge]

yea lmao, genuinely hate that mutation

[dusky surge]

stego's stam is so ass, yet it's carried by one of the most toxic ass mutations in the game, so they won't buff it because otherwise (combined with the mutation), the thing would be unstoppable

I wish they'd just remove it entirely and then fix how much powerswing costs

[tawny mica]

please nurf allo bleed

[maiden temple]

Same, I hate tactile and gastro. Artificially prolongs the fights

[maiden temple]

That should be buffed tbh, stationary + they're slow enough that you need to plan them well

I'd always argue against the frontal attacks being stronger though, this thing is really fast..

I'm surprised it doesn't have a shoulder check when running in quad :c

[open path]

@faint robin @native urchin another rex bites the dust, this time a prime one. Trike is

Can barely see him in the picture Rex turned into mush lol

[native urchin]

nto really stationary, u can abuse the buffed hitbox it has... u can make it hit from a mile away tbh XD

buffed i mean that it was hitbox buff some time ago, its been pretty good (for tenos) since maia update

[native urchin]

nice!! make clips too, so people actually understand how fair the matchup is for trikes please XD

[open path]

I was jumped sadly didn't even get the chance to record xD I will head to delta soon to get some clips 😈

[native urchin]

yea, thats what i did on my trike, till i found myself against 4 prime rexes XD

[open path]

Did you atleast take 1 with you ? 😢

Them Rexes fear a fair brawl

[maiden temple]

Doesn't it require you to not be moving at all?

Also ew, hitbox buff??

[native urchin]

nah XD i think 2 got low though, cause they stayed out of it after a bit. was longer than i expected tbh xD

yea, i was provoking 2 prime rexes, but they stalled till 2 more arrived XD they were not down for a 2vs1

[native urchin]

no u can kick while running.

i mean, its been in for a while... and u can abuse a "kick and turn" that seems like u hit from the front for the opponent XD simply turning too fast for the other to see.

if i can dm u, i can share some clips for you to show what i mean

[maiden temple]

Ohh, I failed to make the kick work while running and pursued, I assume I didn't do it right then D:<

New power unlocked

[maiden temple]

Yee show me

[hearty chasm]

W

[open path]

Thank you good sir

[hasty coyote]

I think Maia is fine as is, it can run from practically anything, and those it can’t run from it can bully. Only things I would change would be to make quad stance better for long distance travel, like by buffing the stam effiency of running or by changing some aspect of trotting while quad to make it better than biped.

[open path]

Got another prime rex kill bout to show off lol

[steep gazelle]

I think the only thing Maia needs is less stamina cost for her attacks, especially in quadruped mode

And perhaps an increase in the Stun/Knockdown threshold of Kick and Stomp

[hasty coyote]

Once tactile is gone, definitely

[limpid shoal]

allo pin is gonna kill this game

[open path]

https://youtu.be/tHt4gHZSat0 another rex down.

[open path]

Got a clip for you 😄 Prime Trike in the right hands is a Rex slayer

[hasty coyote]

... that rex missed a point blank crush and ALT BIT A TRIKE. Still good plays to absolutely demolish it, but that rex had no idea what it was doing.

[open path]

yep defintely didnt seem the most experienced of players. feels bad lol, that friend just left him at the end there

I would have died together atleast >:D

[native urchin]

Lol completely demolished! Bad play on his part, but u moved well! A good Rex would have struggled too to get behind!

[open path]

thanks ! one of the imporatnt stuff as trike is getting perfect diet for rex fights. as it gives you also the 10% fracture resist, that with the mutation and.. I havent gotten fractured by a rex yet! and thats where most of rex power lies from

[winged copper]

Dont mean to be rude here but its genuinly getting on my nervs that carno cant charge a cera. putting aside the fact that carno was almost 2x the size of cerato irl and that carno hunted much larger things than small game. just make carno be able to charge cera. thats all i ask for.

[vivid ocean]

do we have any videos comparing what the total distance covered per-stamina sprint is for each species?

[hasty coyote]

Idk if there’s a vid but I know there’s a chart I can go dig for real quick

[vivid ocean]

i.e. does a trike out pace a rex, etc. I really hate how i don't play this game enough to were if i don't know that a trike can just walk in a straight line towards a rex, the rex can just never get away

[hasty coyote]

#isle-discussion message

[hasty coyote]

Iirc Rex trots faster, but trike has like 2x the run time, so it will catch up unless the Rex is far enough

[vivid ocean]

Nothing about rex, but I was growing a rex and managed to make adult for the first time, but then i just locked eyes with a trike for the first time and i could not just walk away

[hasty coyote]

Yeah but you generally just bully stegos, that’s why they are faster. Else they would have no way to survive. Just bait a swing and land a crush, stay on the head and they get leg broken on the 2nd or 3rd crush, then they just die.

[vivid ocean]

Its just frustrating is all. I don't have the time to play long enough to know each matchup. I think, cool i just want to play cool dinosaur game that looks great, but you are just so fragile for so long I never get to actually play the game

I've been following this game for so long, but it's just never going to be the game I want it to be

[hasty coyote]

That’s the issue with playing the big dinos, they tend to require more effort to play as. The small guys grow quickly and are generally more lenient though.

[maiden temple]

I'd take more uses for quad, it looks cute compared to biped. I do wish it had a big boy kick though :c

[dusky surge]

i do love the fact that quad and biped are effectively two different animals

like, genuinely, i am SHOCKED at maia being not that popular given just how versatile that animal is

like in the middle of a matchup you can entirely change up your combat style

[keen plover]

You know why

[maiden temple]

It's worth looking into private servers to learn, especially with very limited playtime. Most offer earning grows and you can store your grown dinos to redeem later.

I also prefer officials but can't deny I've learnt a ton outside of them

[maiden temple]

I'm still shook nobody really plays teno anymore.. It's so pleasant to play

[dusky surge]

also dont tell anyone i told you this but it can kick allo's ass

just wait till people start realising it

[maiden temple]

I don't wanna go near one tbh, aren't we within clean pin range?

I need to play allo, I know nothing

[dusky surge]

an adult allo cannot pin an adult teno

[keen plover]

ahh

[maiden temple]

Okay that's less scary

[dusky surge]

isnt it JUST out of pin range?

[maiden temple]

What's the pin cutoff?

I assumed it doesn't work like raptor's pin logic but idk what the % was set to

[keen plover]

I genuinely don't know and it would be hard to tell the true size of an allo if its' an adult or almost prime. I'd say be elder for better results

Regardless, Teno is probably not the best pick since the moment it lands a pounce it may just be over, pin or not

[maiden temple]

Yeah elder stages also throw all the matchups off now. It's good but also oof

I might wait to have a smackdown once allo is on the main branch

[keen plover]

Teno may get changes

[maiden temple]

Hopefully not too many, it's already a pretty rare sight

At least on EU servers

[maiden temple]

Sad times

[keen plover]

Not that it's guaranteed, it's just that we MAY get changes. For a build.

[maiden temple]

This would make more sense if we had more mid herbis

Easier hunts for my raptor are always welcome though

[hasty coyote]

It doesn’t look cool, that’s really 70% of the reason. The other 30 is because it actually requires skill to play.

[crimson niche]

@outer zealot must say i disagree with ur statement and stil lthink it should just get removed

its just unnecessary

[dusky surge]

i think the cannibal mutation has a lot of potential for something interesting, i just don't think it's been approached well

removing it, imho, is just removing the idea of something really interesting

[outer zealot]

^^^

i dont think removing it would be the right move

[dusky surge]

this is how i'd do it
#general-feedback message

makes it less of a crutch, more of a unique playstyle

[crimson niche]

why is it interesting eating ur own kind when ur literally not supposed to

[outer zealot]

because with that logic you can make the argument to remove most of the mutations

[crimson niche]

no ?

[outer zealot]

eating your own kind is a survival mechanic that is seen irl even in people

and animals alike

[crimson niche]

rarely in animals and if u live where people eat each other may god help u

[outer zealot]

donner party..

if you live where every day is survival starvation scenario god help you but if you read what i posted it is a SURVIVAL MECHANIC

to prevent starvation

[crimson niche]

u wont starve when u get spasm either

u get punished

[dusky surge]

there's validity to having it

if there exists an overpopulation of a specific species, say, rex or allo (shocker, i know), having cannibals that exist purely to cut down on that population is both healthy for the ecosystem and provides unique survival opportunities to diversify playstyles

that's why i want it to be a mutation that removes all other diet options but your own kind, but makes your own kind extremely nutritious, so rather than it being "oh i just run this and now if my pack dies in a hunt i still get to eat" and now it's "i take this and now i am hyperspecialised in cutting down on overpopulation"

[outer zealot]

thats another great point

[crimson niche]

i think giving apexes the cannibalism is more then enough cause thats usualy the over pop

[dusky surge]

everything should have cannibalism as a mutation, but giving apexes cannibalism naturally is a horrible idea, because it only serves to make rex easier to overpopulate

[crimson niche]

no only apexes get the mutation

[outer zealot]

I think it should give you vomit sickness so there is a chance while attempting to get the mutation you starve to death

[dusky surge]

why? that seems like a really bad idea

nah

[outer zealot]

but i dont agree with removing it

[crimson niche]

i think its a bad game aspect

[dusky surge]

i think it is, at the moment, a bad game aspect

[crimson niche]

especially pack animals shouldnt have it
allo, omni, dilo etc

[dusky surge]

because it only grants another diet option and nothing else, and hardly actually encourages you to cannibalise

like, a cannibal can still hunt dibbles, boars and whatever

what i advocate for is a cannibalistic mutation that makes it that all of your nutrition comes from cannibalism, encouraging a hyper-aggressive cannibalistic playstyle that thrives in overpopulated species

and with the cannibal skin, said pack animals would be able to spot those cannibal variants and be wary of them

my issue with cannibalism is genuinely the lack of risk or such for taking it

there's no real tradeoff, you just get to benefit from failed pack hunts or scavenge your own dead kind with no penalty

sure, your skin changes, but that's not a big deal compared to the upside

what im suggesting is a genuine risk-reward mutation

[crimson niche]

im not sure if this is a good way for this game tbf but its better then what we have rn

[winged copper]

Hello this is my suggestion for carno and a bit of a rant on it and cera. If you read it I hope you enjoy it and give me your feedback! I couldn't send it as a message because I don't have nitro so that's why its a google docx.

[dusky surge]

making carno, a plains predator designed to exist well in the open, into an ambush predator, something designed explicitly not to be in the open, always baffled me

also, in the same sentence, having carno (once again, an ambush hunter) win in a 1v1 brawl in the open against cerato (a brawler) just feels like at that point there's no real cohesiveness in its kit

hell, it brings up "sauropod hunting", yet entirely specialises the kit into either beating cera's ass or competing with allo and makes no mention of any actual matchup with a sauropod

also i dont know where you heard that swallower carno would reduce its own speed by swallowing, but i'm pretty sure that's never been said (swallower carno not only isn't confirmed, but the suggestions relating to it have never once mentioned a slowdown attached, because that'd defeat the point of carno)

also, on the topic of allo and carno, you've got it twisted. Carno is the endurance predator, since endurance allows it to actually hunt small prey effectively, whereas allo is the ambush hunter, using its pin to instantly kill small prey, typically engaging in endurance hunts against large animals that already have less speed and stamina

anyway, i think this suggestion hyperfocuses on the fact that the carno isn't what you want, rather than the fact that the new carno actually works within the ecosystem with a defined niche that isn't overly oppressive and befits an animal whos niche is being faster than everything (namely small game, hence why small game hunter is such a common depiction, since it's the only thing that can consistently run them down in a direct sprint)

[winged copper]

your probably right on most of your points there, my reason for mentioning the sauropod hunting was to give an example of carno hunting larger things than omnis and dilos reliably, and for the beating cera i was pushing it a bit far with the beating cera easily however i do think its quite hopeless at the moment ( might be a skill issue), and as for the ambushing thats usually how carno players are playing now as far as ive noticed and ive tried to expand upon that but yeah. and your right i do want a different carno lol. you raise some great points thanks!

[elfin night]

@coarse blaze I don’t think any creature should have a pin like that in the first place unless it has punishment or conditionals like rex or deino have

People are in no right to complain about allo alone when they have not criticized Omni for it in all this time

[maiden temple]

That would be a nice challenge to play through

[elfin night]

True

[elfin night]

Literally look at what I am about to write

Remove Omni’s pin

There's no reason for something as large as Omni to have a pin, it's full capable without it (I guess you could buff it to make this true). It looks absurd, and it's just being played as "small allo" at the moment between it's bleed and the ability to pin and grapple.

Far too many people are relying exclusively on Omni’s pin for a crutch, it's tiresome, unbalanced and makes it so that most small/tiny-tiers can't interact with Allo.

[maiden temple]

Raptor pin has been discussed a lot in the past, mostly when it came to fights against its own kind. Cannis would just pin you and you're dead

[elfin night]

I tried to copy paste it but it mostly holds true

You can buff Omni and rework pin to make it good

But it sucks that people only care about allo because their precious cerato or teno gets pinned when trying to fight allos

But I guess things are only problems when they affect me…

[elfin night]

I’m guessing people will just cope with allo if it remains or there will be nerfs/changes

Would be super cringe if only allo got changed in this regard though

[maiden temple]

Pin should rely on target's stamina and work only when it's low and THEN on top of that the weight minmaxing

[elfin night]

Maybe it could work with a conditional

But as it is, it is unacceptable for both Omni and Allo and I can’t stress this enough

I don’t care if an Allo pin can make you lose more hours than an Omni pin. No one should be subjected to that experience and miserable moments aren’t excused by growth time

People now doomposting about allo pin after they ignored omni’s are being extremely hypocritical in my opinion

[maiden temple]

It would be so satisfying to follow a playable around watching it burn stam just to pounce at the right moment and get a meal. I still stalk my prey since bleeding people out is easier if they are lower on resources (and they might run into trouble) so this would only add to the hunt

[frosty heron]

They should really rework/change either stamina or bleed on Omni to actually have a good purpose on using the pounce and be a true glass cannon , and then the pin can get nerfed

Because rn its a glass 22.lr pistol

You pounce something , burn your stamina into bleed and only does 10% bleed damage , but more oftenly you pounce something ,, it fails to register and you die

[maiden temple]

Yeah the bleed feels underwhelming and it takes quite a bit of effort to stack it

Dying to a failed pounce is canon

Slithering on the floor was my favourite but I didn't see it in a very long time

[crimson crater]

it’s stamina got increased this HT, it can exert around 3K damage in a full pounce

being a pack hunter isn’t that big of a necessity anymore, it can comfortably pounce carnos and potentially kill them if they’re bad

[frosty heron]

Fr? We got ghost buffs? Im down to test that , ive not picked the playable since Rex HT

Thanks for the info

[cosmic pelican]

I was a prime elder omni yesterday, pounced a random dibble ai I found, it died to the damage before I ran out of stamina

Couldve been damaged but unlikely tbh since it was in a random ahh forest

[crimson crater]

np, it was mentioned in the latest devblog

[maiden temple]

Sounds like it's going away from bleed then :c

[coarse blaze]

Whilst omni pin is pretty annoying, I think the main difference is that Omni can only pin a select few things, and it's rather fragile.

Allo can pin almost every mid-tier and is very much not fragile. But I agree, pins should have some sort of draw back.

[elfin night]

It’s all relative

There are more things Omni can pin and kill than things allo but not Omni can pin and kill (both now and in the planned roster), and also allo is rather fragile when you compare it to many other things above its size

I don’t think any pin without restrictions outside of weight exist

And that is the least hypocritical stance

[coarse blaze]

Allo is the third largest mid-tier, behind Maia and Diablo.

Allo can pin any mid-tier that isn't those two and anything below.

Omni can insta-pin any tiny tier and itself among the mid-tiers. I don't think it can pin Gali anymore due to the weight increase, and it can't pin Pachy. So no, Allo can pin far more things than Omni, and very much isn't fragile.

[native urchin]

with the difference that omni is faster than anything it can pin pretty much, while allo is not

[coarse blaze]

That's true, but again, Omni is fragile and can't pin most things within it's tier.

You can't interact with Allo at all if you're not larger, and the only things larger are Maia, Diablo and the apexes.

So two non-apexes can interact with Allo without being insta-pinned, that's not good.

I never mentioned being able to run away from Allo, I understand that it's slower, I'm specifically saying that nothing, aside those 2 mid-tiers and apexes can interact with the playable.

[native urchin]

i feel like its more of an issue the grapple, which basically makes it stand no chance if u get caught in the open... should be way more than 101% of the weight, or having affect only with low stam.

3.9 ton prime allo is also an issue i guess, since it can pin up to 2.5 tons.

idk what can be put insteda of the pin, but pin is a bad mechanic indeed.... grapple is even worse, only thing i like about grapple is that it punishes who dont manage stam! which is fair

[coarse blaze]

Something as big as Allo doesn't need a pin, it does plenty damage, it's tanky and has decent bleed. There's genuinely no real reason for it, even if it's slower. It was made out as an abusher.

I don't like pins, Omni's grapple is.. fine. It requires more people and to coordinate your stamina but two Allos being able to instantly pin a Diablo is pretty wacky.

Beipi, Omni and Troodon are the only playables that have recoil DMG for being pinned and I find that odd and should change.

[crimson crater]

fragility does not matter when you can’t lay a finger on them as anything smaller though

[coarse blaze]

No, but it does matter when it comes to grappling when comparing the two. A Carno can fend off Omnis trying to pin it, but a Diablo likely isn't going to stop two Allos from just pinning it.

I just haven't seen a good reason for why Allo has a pin/grapple to begin with, it doesn't need it.

[crimson crater]

it would be better to compare a pachy or a dilo trying to fend off an omni lol

[coarse blaze]

You have a point, and I won't contest that.

But counterpoint, Allo can pin more and the things it can pin typically take far longer to grow than a Pachy might.

Losing 3-4 hours because one player spammed one button multiple times is pretty rough.

[crimson crater]

yeah, allo does it to an extreme extent, i just think the mechanic is problematic in general and should be looked at

[coarse blaze]

I agree, pin and grapple should be looked into

[elfin night]

And what do you think the solution is for those things now and soon to be added to deal with Omnis? The same thing everyone has said. “Just don’t exist near omnis bro”

The same thing should apply to mid tiers if we want to keep one form of pin.

Otherwise it’s just gonna be the famous “rules for thee but not for me”. Teno, dilo, cera or kentro are gonna have means to avoid allo just like anything that is Omni or below can

[coarse blaze]

I think that pins should be punished for missing, alike to how Pachy is punished for missing it's ram. That or have some sort of CD before they can do it again, if you don't want to go the recovery "stun" route. Personally, I think the recovery route is more punishing and would like to see that one over the ladder.

I think recoil DMG should apply to every creature, and that it should take some form of consideration from the pinner before mindless spamming a single key.

A troodon for example can kill an Omni of an alike size if it's pinned through recoil DMG, even more so through the help of mutations.

Thinking "Oh no, I'm low. Should I really try to pin that? I might die. Better just bite it instead or leave" rather than just sitting pretty knowing that once it's pinned, you're fine. Low health or not.

[elfin night]

If it has punishment/conditions (outside of weight), I could accept it in both cases

But right now it’s just a crutch for things lighter than you

[coarse blaze]

I completely agree yes, currently I see two situations.

Instantly get pinned and die

Or they engage, realize they can't pin you and then they disengage because it's a crutch.

[native urchin]

i mean, not really fine... pachy encounters this issue of being pinned by 2 and dilo! they take less than a diablo and maia to grow, but also allo takes longer than omni to grow.... so i would agree that pin and grapple requirments (should be only on low stam target) are an issue both for omni and allo

[haughty grotto]

Where have you been?
There's an anti omni cult with non stop complaints about pin since years
Theyve all switched over to complaining about allo because omnis pin is far less relevant now due to more players playing heavyweights since the roster is expanding

[steep otter]

So rex has a 100 seconds running stam now????

WHUT

[coarse blaze]

Yes! Dilo, Pachy and Galli all face that issue and require just two! It can only pin other Omnis solo within it's tier.

However, Allo can solo pin anything in it's tier solo, that aren't Maia or Diablo.

[steep otter]

@dusky surge rex new stam stat is true?

[haughty grotto]

In the grand scheme of things, it's the same thing really. Omnis never dominated with pin, just like allos aren't statistically dominating right now. Omnis die like flies, as do allos (literally 2-3 shot by apexes).
And just like coordinated Omni packs took down a few ceras and carnos, allos do the same against apexes.

Evrima is built around kill secure abilities, which I agree with, otherwise you end up with legacy bite fest.

Also @coarse blaze you're straight up wrong about the pin threshold. Unlike Omni, allos solo pin threshold is 70%, so no it can't pin it's own weight class, only the dinos much smaller and faster than it, like a non prime cera, or carno/dilo/pachy/teno.
Allo is the smallest mid tier. All mid tiers can interact with it just fine.

[dusky surge]

it is

[coarse blaze]

Allo is absolutely dominating with pin, I'm not sure what servers you play on.

[digital vine]

Mochi — 10:44
I have an interesting suggestion: what if you guys make every time you entomb, you lose less stats when u get elder prime and frail elder? This would make people motivates more to keeping entombing and making it less frustrating as dino gets older. Also it would be pretty cool, to have little different details, for every time you dino was entombed when you get elder. So people will know they are a bit stronger than an usual first entombed elder . Also it gives you some sort of pride for continuing the cycle. Hey boys what yall think?

[dusky surge]

sub rex now absolutely obliterates allo

[steep otter]

Bruh.... that is so broken its stupid, sub rex is just a better mid tier them any other mid tiers lmao

[dusky surge]

yup, good luck

60km/hr rex now has like, 3 minutes stam? So it's very tough to escape it as anything

[raven anchor]

they havent fixed allo pounce crash yet wth

[haughty grotto]

Pretty much all servers
Put about 30-40 hrs in this HT
There's no domination. There's a new and real threat that ppl haven't taken into account yet, and are still walking around with the "hehe I'm a 2024 immune herbi" mentality.

Also, read the rest of my msg

[coarse blaze]

"Allo is the smallest mid tier. All mid tiers can interact with it just fine." I think we have different definitions of what a mid tier is.

Teno, Cera, Carno, Diablo, Maia and Allo are all mid-tiers.

Omni, Pachy, Dilo are all small

And anything smaller is tiny

[raven anchor]

and they nerfed his bleed and buffed the op rex

[dusky surge]

personally i dont refer to teno, cera or carno as midtiers

keeps it simpler lol

[steep otter]

My main complaint is when u hit elder with smaller dinos you age like Milk elder estage barely lasts with the likes of cerato, carno and teno

[raven anchor]

allo is one of the strongest mid tiers wdym

[coarse blaze]

They're not really small though, they're far bigger than something like Omni.

[dusky surge]

yea, i'd say they're between mid and small

i call it "bastard tier"

[haughty grotto]

Yeah, I think you have the wrong definition of a mid tier.
You're putting carno teno cera which are HALF OF ALLOS WEIGHT and over 20% faster than allo, in the same category as allo?
And you want them to be able to contest?

Bro that's a you problem.

[steep otter]

The strongest mid tier now is sub rex

[coarse blaze]

My whole point was, Allo can pin anything that isn't Diablo or Maia, or an Apex on the roster if they don't run with it, so there's little interaction.

[dusky surge]

same how i would not call stego, sucho, theri or para midtiers, to me they're large tiers

[raven anchor]

he is and he shouldnt be

[coarse blaze]

Stego is just a smaller apex really

[dusky surge]

stego's weird tbh

[steep otter]

Did not really like the rex stam buff now he is even more opressive

[digital vine]

yeah, thats awfull, at least server owners will be able to adjust that

[dusky surge]

yea uh, they're probably testing something, but what? I can't tell you, but it's something to do with apexes

[steep otter]

How tf are dibbles suposed to survive now

[coarse blaze]

I've still not gotten an answer to why Allo should even have a pin yet

It doesn't need it

[dusky surge]

https://tenor.com/view/thats-the-neat-part-you-dont-invincible-gif-27194608

[raven anchor]

fr now rex can freakin out stam his pray

[dusky surge]

dibble is likely getting a big balance overhaul, which is probably WHY it didn't get touched, but still

[haughty grotto]

Nonsensical again. Why do you want small tiers to contest and "interact" with allo?
You're talking of 2 different weight classes.

Take anything allo size. Dibble or sub rex or trike maybe. They wreck the small tiers and are equally difficult to interact as allo. Allo can pin you. Dibble and subadult trike can knock you down. Subadult rex can crush you.

[steep otter]

It sucks, makes people want to play apexes even more

Rex should have a slower but more powerfull subadult stage and less stam, the fast high stam less powerfull tyranosaur at the same size should be alberto

[coarse blaze]

I see what you're getting at, but I think having one of the most popular playables being something you can't interact with 90% of the roster with is bad.

Also, it doesn't need it, it doesn't make sense.

Trike/Diablo being able to knock you over makes sense, it has a gore attack built into the kit and they're defensive.

Rex is.. Rex and it has no stamina, I can see the purpose of crush.

[haughty grotto]

If adult rex truly has 100 sec stam that has got to be a mistake

[coarse blaze]

Allo doesn't need pin at all

[steep otter]

I Wonder if there even will be a point at alberto existing with sub rex the way it is now

[coarse blaze]

Alberto has a pretty model, but I don't understand it's niche.

[steep otter]

Sub rex on cr a ck

Very fast and powerfull

At least in legacy it was like this, a brute force fast dino

[coarse blaze]

Interaction aside, Allo doesn't need pin.

[haughty grotto]

I think it does.
Without pin, it can't hunt large game, nor catch small game.
Explain to me please how you're gonna bite a galli or trike to death

[coarse blaze]

It was made out to be an ambush predator, I think it could keep the pin if it couldn't spam it, but at the moment it can.

[dusky surge]

pin doesn't help it hunt large game tho??

[haughty grotto]

No, I don't think it's an ambush predator at all

It's a loud in your face pack hunter

[dusky surge]

im pretty sure allo was added explicitly as an ambush pred

[coarse blaze]

Tee hee, two Allos spam pin Diablo

[dusky surge]

thats grapple tho, which is technically a different system

[coarse blaze]

It is but I don't think it needs grapple either

[haughty grotto]

You are in a completely different universe and I respect it
Have a good day lol
Pin isn't going anywhere

[coarse blaze]

Allo has some pretty nasty bleed, even after the nerf and it deals great DMG already, with weight to swing around.

Esbi, you've downvoted nearly anything I've recommended that nerfs any carnivore or buffs an herbivore, we indeed live in different universes.

[dusky surge]

i love the "different universe" thing, as if you can't comprehend someone not sharing your view on things existing in the same universe as you

[coarse blaze]

NO, it's my turn in the echo chamber

I like hearing other opinions, but it normally boils down to "you're wrong and I'm right" rather than a neutral want to understand each side of the coin.

Even if you don't agree in the end or change your mind.

[haughty grotto]

I swear it's nothing personal.
I down vote most things that are ridiculous or extreme.

I agree where balance and fun makes sense. For example I myself have stated several times that bucking should be more reliable and interactive.

But when you start a post in big bold font with REMOVE ALLOS PIN what else do you want me to do?
There's a difference between that and "hey I think this can be a bit more fun and interactive"

[dusky surge]

i think people need to be open to the idea of people not liking pin NOT EQUALLING people not liking allo or thinking allo shouldn't do the things it currently does

giga will likely not have a grapple/pounce like mechanic, yet it is fully expected to hunt large game

dilo does not have any system to latch or grapple, yet it hunts large game

hell, cerato hunts large game and has nothing but "bite" and "bigger bite"

i think the belief that "pounce or mechanics LIKE pounce are REQUIRED for large game hunting" is inherently narrowsighted

yes, omni and troodon are both large game hunters with pounce, but troodon doesn't even have grapple and rarely if ever is able to get a pin, and these are smaller animals

[coarse blaze]

I understand that, but I've seen it on nearly every feedback post I've made, you can't say that it doesn't just look like a pattern to me at that point.

I want things to be fair, and I want the game to be interactive as well, it's why I don't think spam 1 button with no counterplay is bad by design and not fun.

[dusky surge]

i personally think there is some merit to be had to the discussion of allo being inherently not that engaging to go against

i honestly think rex and its pin was done better, albeit i can't say by how much lol

[coarse blaze]

Rex isn't something I'm fond of, I hate that they kept bone break on it.

[dusky surge]

i would've given it body fracture, leg fracture feels wrong

and overkill

[coarse blaze]

I get that you can run from it, if you don't get crippled but it already has a pin

[haughty grotto]

You know this made me curious, cause I know it isn't true.
I just went back and saw I've upvoted most of your past posts.

So idk what you mean

[coarse blaze]

Watching people spam crush on a Trike and win makes me sad.

[dusky surge]

yea, i'll be real, i think that might be just something to do with trike itself

im interested to see how other apexes like giga deal with rex, and if it'll be crushspam or there'll be more headswings and other attacks thrown in

[coarse blaze]

You know, I can't find them either. Maybe I'm wrong, but I could have sworn that you had. Possibly it was just in here a good few times and I'm misremembering.

I just specifically remember butting heads with you often enough on feedback that I know the name.

[coarse blaze]

I think Trike is insanely lackluster overall.

I worry a little for Giga, but I think it heavily depends on how big they make Giga

[elfin night]

I’ve been in a cave admittedly

Still both suck and I hate when people only complain about allo

[dusky surge]

yea trike is weird

[elfin night]

I wish Omni were good without being that stupidly no skill and oppressive against itself

[dusky surge]

i personally would've focused less on flips and knockdowns, and more brutal piercing attacks

[elfin night]

And things that are lighter

[elfin night]

Give lethality to trike

[dusky surge]

i mean it has lethality

[steep otter]

A charge atack would be nuts

[dusky surge]

on thrash

but personally i just don't think thrash should be trike's thing, it works a lot better on dibble

like dibble to me is "flip and finish"

trike should be something that hits you and it's BRUTAL

[steep otter]

Likely around the same size if not heavier them rex

[dusky surge]

im not sure if giga will be bigger than rex

idk, seems unlikely to me

[steep otter]

I think giga will be very simple, simple spar , normal high bleed bite and a more powerfull flesh tearing bite

[steep otter]

If not bigger them slightly smaller

Around the same size

[coarse blaze]

I apologize however for my statement, I do think I likely confused you with something else, as these are the only two I could find which isn't saying anything.

You're allowed to disagree, but I thought it was far more than it was, and I apologize for mixing that up, I was wrong on that.

[haughty grotto]

Yeah probably just in discussion channels, then.
I don't feel too strongly about most things in this ever evolving game, I've made myself flexible and understanding of the devs vision.

But pin is something I love to defend, cause I think the presence of kill secure abilities is what makes a threat real, and is what sets evrima apart from a tail riding bite fest like legacy, or basically dinos being sponges absorbing a ton of hits without real commitment.

Herbis have had kill secure abilities since forever despite not needing them.
You can say allo doesn't need it either all you like. But not needing something in your opinion is not equal to take it away. We all have things we don't need but are there because they fit a vision.

The stakes are much higher now and both sides can very much die quickly, and I love the adrenaline and planning that this brings about.

[steep otter]

On the Maia, dondi said it will be buffed soonish

[native urchin]

u can sprint for like 7 seconds and you have to start walking... this is how it was before.... stam was very bad, its only speedy

[coarse blaze]

Likely that, again I apologize.

Would you be open then to pounce being reworked, you disagreed with the recoil DMG previously. Do you think pin is "good" currently? That it's fair without counterplay outside of "just don't engage"? I am genuinely curious.

[dusky surge]

good, it should've been, that was its core weakness

[elfin night]

No I meant the league stat that serves for armor penetration

[coarse blaze]

I'm fine with pin staying in the game, but it's the ability to spam or rely too much on it that bothers me most.

[steep otter]

Recoil damage if the dino was like % of the pinner weight would be neat tbh

[elfin night]

Now back to serious discussion

[coarse blaze]

I agree

[dusky surge]

now its got better stats than most of the smalls as a juvi

better stats than the mids as a sub

and as an adult, it's still oppressive as hell

[elfin night]

No pin on allo or omni pls

I have people just taking away all agency and even intelligence away from my dinosaur

[steep otter]

Its the best predator in the game at all size ranges lmao, the only dino that it cant kill at the same size is cerato

[coarse blaze]

Omni can still pin so few things solo, it bothers me a lot less.

I think recoil DMG would help a lot, but I don't feel that omni is very oppressive due to it's weight.

[native urchin]

oppressive to what? XD i littearlly easily avoided rex as anything i couldnt fight it with, and easily fought it when i could XD

[dusky surge]

i swear man, they could give rex the same speed as raptor and you'd still find a way to justify it lmao

[elfin night]

46kph rex would go hard

[dusky surge]

rex was fine before, a little overtuned, but nothing a few minor changes couldn't fix

[haughty grotto]

I think removal is not the solution. Having consequences is the solution.
Make all cc abilities for all dinos cost a lot. Not spammable, not long lasting. And rework bucking to make it more reliable, fun and maybe interactive.

You can't bite a trike to death.
You can't reach a galli to bite it in the first place.
You do need kill secure abilities that subdue / stun / take away control to overcome over half the roster in this game, cause even 3 seconds of reaction time is too much and will get you two
-shot killed.

Pin is a real threat, one that should be met with a new cautious mentality that promotes situational awareness, not a cry for removal.

Each ability fills a certain role in the ecosystem.
In the case of pin/grapple, it is to kill those that 1) are too fast/agile to get hit by multiple regular attacks, or 2) are too defensively strong / heavyweight to ever die to bites or rams or kicks or tail swipes.

Variety is a good thing. Fearing a kind of dino and looking forward to fighting a different type of dino depending on what you play is a good thing.

Pin does have counterplay. The counterplay just happens to occur BEFORE you get caught.
If you're situationally aware you will likely not get pinned. If you walk solo into dangerous territory you have a high chance.

That's all I'ma say about pin.

[dusky surge]

besides stego powerswing stam, rex murdersprint being obnoxious and a few other things, i thought the overall apex fights were actually some of the game's most engaging

now rex just has a huge advantage over everything

poor allos man

[native urchin]

i just dislike people crying about stuff they dont know about. rex is far from op.
it fairly fights its own size, and it destroys anything smaller. just as its supposed to be.

[dusky surge]

it's absolutely OP now, if there was any doubt before

[native urchin]

for who? trikes can easily destroy rex, and stego is 3 tons smaller......

[dusky surge]

are you being serious

[native urchin]

or u want cera and allo to easily deal with rexes?

[dusky surge]

no, i want them to SURVIVE rexes

[haughty grotto]

I honestly think rex was in such a good balanced state these past few weeks
This stam buff wasn't needed

[native urchin]

if u get caught by a rex/ambushed as a rex, its a skill issue

[faint robin]

Why is rex stam the same as stego lol

[dusky surge]

like at first i genuinely thought you were a little rex biased but still based in a level of skill v skill

but now? can you SERIOUSLY not see the issue

[faint robin]

Who even thought of buffing rex stam

[dusky surge]

rex has the same stamina as DIABLO AND STEGO

[faint robin]

Crush spam returns yay

[dusky surge]

the argument of "oh stego should just outstam rex" no longer applies, because it can't

it just dies

[native urchin]

stego stam got buffed as well, and trike stam did as well.... so it doesnt change the matchuo

[dusky surge]

sub-adult rex now makes sure allo is no longer remotely playable, you will die on sight

[faint robin]

Stego got 10 sec more and rex basically trippled stam

[dusky surge]

bro

stego got 10 seconds

trike got like, 30

rex got triple the stam, around 70 seconds

come on man

[native urchin]

where did they say that?

[dusky surge]

the matchup is insanely different

[native urchin]

or was it tested?

[dusky surge]

they didn't say that, the files did and we tested

all of them now have exactly 100 seconds of stamina each

[haughty grotto]

I don't think it's intended
"Slight" =/= triple

[maiden temple]

added too many 0s

[faint robin]

Rex shouldn't have the same stam as trike either
Trike is slower

[native urchin]

yea i mean, i dont think it was needed, btu rex doesnt have tactile, so u can still chase it to death

[dusky surge]

Do not use tactile to justify this wtf

It's a bad change for ALL of them

[faint robin]

Tho trike is prob the least affected (but now rex won't even be out of stam after crush spam and can disengage at any moment)

[elfin night]

We want tactile removed

[dusky surge]

Tactile should not be accounted for in balancing

[native urchin]

fair, i agree that it was not needed

[dusky surge]

like this basically takes rexes entire cool identity, takes it out back, shoots it

rex was cool because it would have one, powerful ambush that would either kill you or you'd escape, and it was TERRIFYING

now it just keeps chasing, it doesn't even care that it failed the ambush

[native urchin]

rex is jsut a deino on land... if u get ambushed u cant get away.... but if u know its there, its not an issue

aside for dibbles i guess, but that needs to change eventually hopefully, for their sake.... evne though i wont cry for dibble extinction

[dusky surge]

i mean, it's not just a dibble extinction

allo is basically screwed now thanks to sub-rex being better in every way, stego can no longer outstam rex as a strategy and actually has WAY worse combat stam too thanks to its powerswing, trike to a certain extent is really going to feel the hurt given its primary combat strategy has been weakened against rex, many small tiers are going to suffer because of juvi rex

its pretty much a universal extinction

[steep otter]

Sub rex is the main issue

[dusky surge]

ehhh, no, it's pretty much every growth stage

sub rex is a big issue but like, it's everyone's problem

every age of rex is going to dominate every single size tier it matches

[native urchin]

it doenst last long... in 5% u go from 60 to barely 40

[dusky surge]

that's not the point being made

[native urchin]

it cant really fight its own size now, since crush nerf

[dusky surge]

it very much can lol

[native urchin]

which is okay, not complaining

[dusky surge]

like genuinely, unless you're REALLY bad, crush is absolutely a strong tool against your own size

its not great at hitting well above your weight, sure

[native urchin]

yea, u gotta hit it though... a cera has the agility to bait and avoid

[dusky surge]

i mean, if you're just crushspamming, sure, but that's again, sign of a bad rex

[steep otter]

No sense change tbh

[native urchin]

i mean, its either that or u use alt to knock, all attacks u can bait! and vs a cera u dont have many chances to actually hit it, since charge bite will melt u

but again, thats okay! im not complaining, but sub rex when its fast, its vulnerable to only carnos..... but even a pachy can knock it down, which means, it gets demolished by pachy.

but i also think after 4h having a safe stage of speed where u only have to worry about carno, and u still have to hunt either small stuff or babies, or scavenge.... then when u get close to 50% u are bigger, around allo size, but slow! and even though it packs a punch, its still pretty vulnerable..... u get pinned by 2 allos, chased down by stegos, with nothing u can really do, since your alt doesnt knock the allos.

idk, i played sub rex, and i fought/escaped sub rexes..... i do not feel like its this unscapable oppressive thing

at least, since the nerf!! i agree when 700kg rex could kill carnos was a bit too much xD but now that is not the case anymore

[steep otter]

Why on Earth the ambush predador needs the same stam has a 3ton ceratopsian

This stam would be aceptable in like a albertosaurus

Not rex

[native urchin]

yea, im not trying to justify the stam buff... was not necessarily needed.

even though i dislike trikes and stegos being able to chase down a rex, but thats a tactile issue -- at younger stages at least

[twilit seal]

@dusky surge did you test the values, i didnt get the chance to try any of those. Rex and the rest really have the same as diablo?

[dusky surge]

mhm, 1 minute 40 seconds

in fact, stego has better stam than dibble now, since it regens faster

[twilit seal]

Wow that sucks, i mean rex could use better stam def in the earlier stages but otherwise rex balance was pretty perfect

I thought the “slight buff” was like 10 secs extra

[dusky surge]

oh it was

for stego

lmao

also idk, i dont even think rex needed that much stamina, i personally think having it have poor stamina was a pretty decent balancing factor given how well it otherwise matched up with a lot of the roster as it grew

[twilit seal]

I mean none of the apexes needed the stam buffs except like i said young trike and rex, rex juvie stam was atrocious and after the changes to its weight/speed ratio it wasnt oppressive

[dusky surge]

the juvi stam is a direct offshoot of adult stam, it scales universally for all animals

[sullen dragon]

@dusky surge does Rex really have a 100 second run time stamina now? Are you talking about adult Rex

[dusky surge]

yes

adult and elder by extension

[sullen dragon]

That sounds like a bug

[dusky surge]

it is literally listed in patchnotes

[sullen dragon]

Listed as “slight” but this isn’t “slight” so makes me think it’s a bug

[dusky surge]

it was "slight" for stego and trike

the values were pretty evidently entered as "100" in the game files

that's not a bug

it could be a misplaced value, i think it's unlikely, but it's 100% not a bug

[sullen dragon]

What about juvie and sub Rex? Did they get better stam too or na

[dusky surge]

of course they would, any change to adult stam changes juvi stam

every single juvis stam directly scales with its adults

[sullen dragon]

Sub Rex lowk needed that stam buff but juvie and adult Rex? Meh

[dusky surge]

any buff to any stage of life would be a buff to all of its stam with how stam is designed atm

juvis have a set multiplier that decreases their running stam cost, that slowly gets smaller and smaller as they grow

i BELIEVE it's a 4x multiplier

not 100% sure

[sullen dragon]

I’m trying to think of a playable that’s stam is horrendous as adult but not at juvie/sub but I can’t so you’re probably right

Anyways I really don’t expect Rex to keep these stam values

It’s way too much

[frosty heron]

Sounds unintended , only Sub Rex needed the stam buff since adult Stegos bigger than it could outstam it pretty easily on the past versions

While not being much faster

[viscid mica]

@winged copper wrong place to reply

[winged copper]

damn my b

[viscid mica]

And when it’s a car o shorter than me that I’m 90% sure wasn’t 1ton but I was being generous knocks me down while standing still

Imma call it dumb

[winged copper]

yeah that's fair but if say you 200 pounds and someone thats around 125 pounds comes at you at 59 kmph ur going to get knocked down. but maybe they should rework charge if your not a sub or adult carno, they should be easy prey for dilo if the're not.

[viscid mica]

More so you shouldn’t be able to stand still and knock things your the same size down

If Rex can’t do it why can carno? Have it’s charge capacity scale with speed

[winged copper]

oh yeah i thought you were saying you were standing still 🤣 my b, i do think that mechanic is dumb

[viscid mica]

No I was chasing lil bro around and he drifts and while not moving insta knocked me

And got both a second charge hit and altbite to my head off because of it

Which was the most undeserved dps of his life

[winged copper]

LOL, yeah its really wierd i agree

[viscid mica]

Still won even though he was hacking (infinite stamina) twas very dumb

Almost bled out running this dude around the map 😭

He ran my full stam bar out and was still holding charge down like bro HOW

[winged copper]

nahhhhhh thats vile

[viscid mica]

2 of us on him too and he even out stammed my sub adult

[winged copper]

dayum

[viscid mica]

But ya regardless the fact he stopped moving and was able to insta knock me

Is diabolical

[winged copper]

it is, really weird i agree.

[viscid mica]

It’s just too much

[winged copper]

i think they should slow down the animation and only make it stagger/knockdown things as big or smaller

[viscid mica]

Carno can already steam roll stuff it’s bigger than by even 10kg

It doesn’t need to do it while not moving too

[viscid mica]

I don’t mind the knocking or staggering things same size or even bigger than it IF it’s running for awhile

Like even 1 second or .5 a second

But the ability to standing throw a 888 dilo as a probably 800 or 900 carno is diabolical

[winged copper]

100%

[viscid mica]

I reworded it

[winged copper]

yeah lol, i was thinkin about like a long charge for carno where if your in a continuous charge for more than 8 seconds you could knock things larger than you over and deal a bit of fracture. might even make an animation for it as a passion project

[viscid mica]

Yeah, maybe I don’t know. Carno is my second most played right now. Second only to troodon. I just don’t find the ability to completely invalidate other creatures existence by being faster and able to Insta stun them without any preamble kind of weird

Like not even Rex is capable of doing that

[winged copper]

yeah its dumb, if they're gonna keep it they should 100% slow down the animation and make it more of a avoidable attack

[viscid mica]

Not even just don’t make it a free knockdown if you aren’t running

You can dodge the run, you can’t dodge if your on their butt and they drift hit you and it instantly kos you

[winged copper]

Yeah, it shouldn't knock down or even stun smth bigger than it I agree

[viscid mica]

I imagine he was probably bigger

Maybe 900ish to be fair

But he was BARELY bigger

I was faster than him

[winged copper]

Yeah maybe like 100kg smaller means a small dtun

[viscid mica]

Server crashed my bleed was at 19% 😭 I wonder if I’ll live when I load in tmrw

I even had extra bleed resistance

[winged copper]

Damn hope you'll be fine 🙏

[viscid mica]

Meh it’s a dilo

I grew like 2 carnos and 3 dilos today 😂

[winged copper]

Damn man, I can barely grow a carno consistently 😭

[viscid mica]

I’m on a dilo fever dream rn cuz I’ve had mad success bullying allos and Rex’s

[viscid mica]

POV 3k hours later…..

[winged copper]

LOL

[viscid mica]

My gf be deep into a Rex grow we roam but don’t fight together (unless it’s other mixs)

This HT is 90% mix’s 9% hackers 1% regulars

[winged copper]

Damn man, I'm glad I don't play it 🤣

[viscid mica]

Oh you haven’t experienced manual carno charge yet have you

It’s….. something else

Let’s just say it’s a lot stronger and I mean ALOT STRONGER than current main branch carno

[winged copper]

I spent like 2 min on HT and immediately thought carno was broken cuz it wouldn't charge

[viscid mica]

Na you hold it and left click

It’s something fierce

[winged copper]

Damn ok, might have to stop talking bout buffing carno then

[viscid mica]

Jump on HT and grow a carno when servers are fixed

(The servers are down)

Trust me you’ll enjoy it

[winged copper]

Alr sure

[viscid mica]

Normally I’d have not cared but when I’m at the minimum of equal weight if not bigger than him and he knocks me while standstill that’s something…. Something frustrating

[winged copper]

Yeah, now that I've heard about what it can do I'm not sure if I like it lol

[viscid mica]

As long as they give it a quick twit change to make sure that it has to move a few feet before it can knock down so it’s not drift stunning that stuff it’ll be fine

Like if I got hit while he was moving and got knocked down I have just shrugged it off and and been like whatever

[winged copper]

Yeah, I agree, knocking down while standing still is pretty over powered

[viscid mica]

Wish I had a recording, but I was busy trying to chase him around and by the time I even sat down to stop chasing him I realize my bleed was rapidly decreasing and was more focussed on watching my bleed, go down that anything else

[winged copper]

Yeah lol. I saw this one recording before the prime cera buff of a carno only using that move and knocked down the cera (they were both prime)

[viscid mica]

I wonder if that still works now that Cerrato’s prime is 2.1

And Carno is still only 1.8

[winged copper]

Probably not

[viscid mica]

Yeah, likely not know if they do need to do they need to buff tenO prime

Teno prime is only 1.8. It is the smallest gain amongst any of the primes it’s size.

[steep gazelle]

Well, Carno had to get something in return for making the charge manual

[winged copper]

It def did but this... This is a bit much

[viscid mica]

The charge being manual was already the biggest buff it ever got the ability to not have to worry about the tail, taking all the damage

Plus, they gave its charge bleed

[winged copper]

Well for that, the tail (at least in main evrima branch) is really the only thing carno can hit without being punished to oblivion

[viscid mica]

Depending on what you’re fighting

[winged copper]

WHAT??!! I might just have to play HT from now on

[winged copper]

Well if ur fighting a cera... Ur cooked, for a temp if it kicks or tail attacks you get stunned

[viscid mica]

Hordetest carno is plenty strong. It’s just overshadowed by allo and Rex.

[viscid mica]

You can hit head shots without being self stunned

[winged copper]

Yeas but a decent teno will claw attack and put a lot of bleed on you

[viscid mica]

Tenos a whole different story to cera

[winged copper]

If we're talking about cera you can't trade with its charge bite, like at all, if the cera simply faces you your going to die

[viscid mica]

Sinple

Drift alt

Easily dodge bites bait timing and land hits

Or short stop him

That tends to work too

[winged copper]

Damn alr, I've tried that but the cera low key just push me lol

[viscid mica]

Ya they do that it’s hard you gotta get bleed on them without getting hit and make em chase you around

Walk around getting stam outside of their range

[steep gazelle]

It's not that good. Charge would be one of the hardest attacks to land, especially on smaller, fast-moving things like Omnis and Dilos, because Carno spins like a bus when using it

[winged copper]

Yeah it's prob just a skill ilissue for me but carno is still at a disadvantage

[viscid mica]

Fixed that, and it’s honestly super easy to hit

[steep gazelle]

Manual charge is extremely easy for these creatures and a good player to dodge

[viscid mica]

That sounds like a skill issue

Cuz I’m cleaning out anything smaller than me daily

[steep gazelle]

They could have avoided the charge quite well before, When I was a auto-hit

[viscid mica]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

That’s a skill related issue

Manual is better

Cuz if they are running straight away your attacks not being muted into just a tip of the tail hit

[steep gazelle]

I used to be a Carno main, and I also played a lot against Carno using Omni and Dilo. Charge is predictable; the only thing that truly made Carno a good small hunter was practically charge auto-hit

[viscid mica]

That’s objectively wrong

Again if using manual you can’t match if not out preform how you where playing g with auto it’s a skill issue

It’s way easier to get way higher charge value with manual

Seeing as you can headbutt while standing still and all too

[steep gazelle]

I can do it, but that doesn't change what I said. Previously, the only thing that made Omni and Dilos afraid of Carno was its auto-hit capability, especially since knocking down any of them as a Carno was quite difficult against skilled players I decide to use the turn radius using the charge

[viscid mica]

Omnis and dilos are more scared of carnos than ever thou… carnos can stun while standing still, have bleed on charge hit, faster hits and over all better bleed res now

[steep gazelle]

That's why I said that Carno should have something in return when having manual charging, Although I didn't expect him to be able to use the charge when statyonary

[viscid mica]

Carno kit is more equipped to dominate than ever

[viscid mica]

He got bleed On headbuttakacharge 🫠

And a lot of it

[steep gazelle]

Yes, that's because Carno is obviously better than before. But what if it didn't have the bleed on the headbutt and the stationary charge? Would it be the same? Of course not, Carno would be quite awful

[viscid mica]

Mmm

I’d say it’d be slightly better than what it was but generally still in a meh state

With bleed it went to a WOW and with stationary headbutt spam it went to DEAR GOD

[steep gazelle]

Try fighting an Omni or Dilo using only your bite. That would basically be it

[viscid mica]

I mean that’s do able

Not great but not impossible

Also like I don’t see how manual is worse than auto

It’s 1000x better

[steep gazelle]

because it's harder to hit and easier to dodge

[viscid mica]

But it’s not 😭

It’s easier to hit and harder to dodge

[steep gazelle]

It would be better if there was a PvP server in Hordtest; it would allow for better testing

[viscid mica]

By ALOT I’ve had a significantly easier time cleaning out dilos and omnis this HT with carno

[viscid mica]

I’ve grown so many carnos this hordetest I’m telling you it’s so much stronger and easier to use 😭

[steep gazelle]

Well, a stationary charge is really powerful

[viscid mica]

[haughty grotto]

Guys allos bleed is broken in this patch right?
A pounce is doing like 3% bleed damage
Less than a boar hit lol

[faint robin]

Finally actual allo bleed nerf
Shouldn't be dying in a minute cuz allo did 1 pounce

[celest aurora]

rex's stam needs to be nerfed i can sprint pretty much everywhere as a 72% rex

i feel like an 8 ton allo

[dusky surge]

its fully intended, and there's no unique stam cost for any lifestage for any animal, so individual buffs aren't really a thing they do

#balance-feedback message @steep gazelle you also should know this, they can't just specifically buff juvi stam (and even if they could, juvi rex still has way too much atm)

[dusky surge]

@kind hollow #balance-feedback message

i do genuinely think body fracture fits rex WAY more than leg (not to mention makes more sense), although, I think your rex design isn't really an ambush predator, far more a pursuit predator now

also i genuinely don't know if pin on rex is that bad? like i get why it feels crappy on allo but it honestly kinda works on rex

[steep gazelle]

@sullen dragon I remember seeing a post saying you had been permanently muted, were you able to resolve it?

[sullen dragon]

Yes I dmd a senior admin 🙏

[steep gazelle]

That is good. Usually when this happens it's difficult to resolve

[sullen dragon]

Yeah I’m thankful to the admins they ain’t as bad as I thought

Won’t be talking bad about them no more lol

[elfin night]

It defo works on rex because it actually has consequences for missing it

And at least before the buff it couldn’t keep up a pursuit for long

Allo and Omni on the other hand can spam it without consequences

[native urchin]

to what? and what size was the allo?

i am genuinelly worried they will nerf the bleed so much that it will turn like omni, and wont be able to bleed anything out.

[steep otter]

I think people forget that a bleeder os suposed to, you know... make people bleed.

[elfin night]

Yeah allo should be doing good bleed

Sucks that it does the most by becoming untargetable on someone’s back though

[native urchin]

yea sadly. i think the main issue is the getting them off... as of right now its not even a safe option to pounce.... allo will get killed as soon as it gets off, especially from the 3 apexes that can cc and one shot

bleed is supposed to "cripple" you in the sense that u cant run away... i wouldnt be upset if one long allo pounce (60&% stamina usege) could bleed out a dibble or maia if they never stop running

but, knocking off and bucking off needs to work xD

[quick socket]

Allo is supposed to be a well rounded brawler, not a bleeder. Meaning it's decent at everything. Not being bleed out a target in one go while having agility, fast bite speed and other pvp utilities is only fair. People got way too comfortable on overturned allo pressuring everything, even adult rexes. Now being put back in their place and niche and thank God.

[faint robin]

Fast bite speed should be fixed ngl

[dusky surge]

the fact we live in a world where allo is now considered an "all-rounder brawler, not a bleeder" is genuinely hysterical

how has its kit ended up making it this way lmao

i'm not arguing a well-rounded brawler isn't what it is, but i absolutely don't think it's what it's meant to be

[native urchin]

brawler based on what? since it has claw attack and terrible bite force? (not taking into account the bite speed, which i dont think will stay)..... and why a pounce attack if its a brawler?

allo is meant to do hit and runs, and bleed prey out. only thing making it a "brawler" is the bite speed.

[dusky surge]

honestly, yea

i think the pounce is to blame for a lot of allo's difficulty when it comes to balance

[native urchin]

old pachy (500kg) would bleed out with one long omni pounce.... same should be for allo if it pounces for long someone the same size of the allo itself

only thing making allo annoying is the grapple mechanic when full stam, and not able to knock em off. but definitley not meant to be a brawler

[native urchin]

and this^ hopefully they change to whats its supposed to be... cant be worse then the current pounce

[keen plover]

Rex is a brawler. Allo doesn't come close

[thorn mountain]

you actually just have a fundamental misunderstanding of allo, its a bleeder not a all round brawler. that job is alberto

[quick socket]

Weird, the more they balance it the least it plays like a bleeder, I wonder why

[quick socket]

Rex is a power house, straight to the kill type of playable. It hits hard, thats why fights are short even when faced with similar tier. Diablo is a brawler. Allo is a brawler.

[dusky surge]

rex is absolutely a brawler

additions like the headswing and changes like reduction to the crush damage prove that

allo should absolutely not be a brawler

[thorn mountain]

allo is literally meant to be a big game hunter using its bleed, why do you think it does 175 damage lol

[quick socket]

It does 175 damage because it's attack speed is very fast, it goes chomp chomp chomp

[thorn mountain]

which should 100% be nerfed, its unfinished so we will see

[quick socket]

Rex might be called one if they keep its new stamina. With high dmg and low stamina its not a brawler really

[quick socket]

Yeah, for sure. I wonder if we gonna get it shipped till new year

[dusky surge]

it is, it just depends on how it plays

high stamina is usually more indicative of an endurance animal, not a brawler

rexes attacks are cheap, which is usually indicative of a brawler

[steep otter]

Rex and cerato are brawlers

Allo and omni bleeder

Tbh i think allo bite speed should be nerfed and bleed damage from the bite buffed

[dusky surge]

rex is a brawler/ambusher mix, cera is a full brawler

allo really doesn't have the properties of a brawler

besides its biterate

[elfin night]

I think this is carried over from legacy and it sucks

(Although allo was one of the better bleeders in the game back then, just not a signature one)

[elfin night]

They should do what I suggested

Far better than just stacking bleed through pounces

Of making the bleed come more from bites but making the pounce a good pack cc to deal with larger targets

[native urchin]

lets not forget that they released it early for ALLOween purposes and make community happy....its very unfinished, and they released with a crazy amount of bleed.... they have to find the balance to put it in the right place!
the bite speed will definitely change, the animation and sound doesnt even match how fast it can go. it cant be faster than dilo, i would say slightly slower than dilo would be fine.

bleed should be scary, maybe they nerfed it too much now, and they will buff it again. the pounce will be more unique for allo, and not an omni pounce

[elfin night]

Maybe it isn’t balanced right now?

[native urchin]

or am i dreaming and this wont happen?

[elfin night]

We can hope it happens

Reworks and significant changes aren’t a novelty

[twilit seal]

Have you checked pounce bleed values after the recent patch? Ive heard its super low now

I think claw attack is still good tho

[thorn mountain]

ye

[twilit seal]

You know the values?

Some ppl were saying its even lower than omni pounce

Im not surprised if its a classic case of revenge nerfing

[thorn mountain]

no

we will test bleed on release, no point now

[astral basalt]

Bleed from the bite buffed ???? Omni needs to get Hit by a bite once and needs to sit down and still loses 50% blood. The bite bleed is crazy on allo

[astral basalt]

I think it’s still higher

[twilit seal]

I mean its an allo it shouldnt even be close to omni bleed

I dont want them to overnerf it just cuz its been broken

[maiden temple]

If we complain about it too much cera will get buffs

Don't ask me how it's connected, I'm not one to question it

[twilit seal]

I mena allo is still so incomplete

It feels horrible to play, broken animations, just a pounce spam bot

[native urchin]

3 tons slashing through your body will deal a lot of bleed, and the allo bite should deal more bleed then the whole roster currently.

just like an omni doing a full bleed pounce on a pachy or dilo kills it, allo should do the same with similar size dino (like prime allo vs prime dibble, or vs maia)

[twilit seal]

Doesnt have a slide, does a 360 turn

Still the super fast bite

[maiden temple]

Pounce is a good way of avoiding taking damage too, did you use it in water? Such a speed boost if timed well xD

[native urchin]

https://tenor.com/view/you-are-late-judge-judy-hurry-its-time-faster-gif-5395101

[twilit seal]

Claw is better for the speed boost in water, almost double the distance

[maiden temple]

omg

[native urchin]

until u get bucked off... then u stand there for 15 business days for anything to kill you xD

[maiden temple]

Nono, I used it as a dodge not to actually pounce

[native urchin]

oh yea XD

[twilit seal]

You can also use claw swipe with a broken leg to basically negate the speed debuff

[native urchin]

u can do it sideways too, dryo dodge style

[maiden temple]

Crazy stuff

[twilit seal]

Yeah allo can still use it 90 degrees to each side

Thats what i mean, its still so incomplete

And when they fix the pounce etc with the knock offs, allo is gonna be weak with its slow speed and not good agility

[native urchin]

simply going to be a bigger omni, needing to camp sanctuary to pin stuff to win, or anything else will crumble

[maiden temple]

I still think it should be trotting faster as a bleeder, with enough bleed per hit that's all it will need as a persistence killer. Raptor seems to be going towards pounce damage, not bleed now

[native urchin]

yea, imo omni was better off with bleed... bleed allows u to risk less, u go in less time, apply bleed and watch it bleed... dmg u have to constantly go in, which doesnt really fit the smol omni.... but thats my bias opinion of who loves bleedrs

and yea, allo should definitely trot faster, it feels like u are z walking.... and simply trot down prey after clawing it a few times!

which is what giga will do, but will probably have a bite attack that will deal insane bleed

my beloved giga

[maiden temple]

It made sense and with patience you really could solo stuff 3-4x your size. Fights are getting shorter and it's really not as fun

[twilit seal]

I think the trot speed is just bugged too, cuz prime elder allo trot speed is fine, its like almost triple the speed of regular allo

[maiden temple]

That sounds promising

[twilit seal]

I mean i hope thats the case

[spiral ledge]

I am allo main but is the worst dino i have ever seen in terms of everything , if you do a pounce yo are gonna be stun like 3 secs without moving , his agility is ..... , the claw atack It is useless in combate it is decorative ... , the pounce works really really bad , the only good thing of the dino is the alt atack

[native urchin]

claw is the best attack to bleed stuff out.. idk about the recent patch of today, but it was dealing hella bleed

[twilit seal]

Claw is actually pretty good, does the most bleed. Just needs some getting used to

[spiral ledge]

I was referring more to performing the attack; the animation is so incomplete. I mean, the attack can only be done under very specific conditions, and also, when you perform that attack, for 2 seconds or so you can't make any other move, and against dinosaurs like Stegos and Rexes, you're dead.

[astral basalt]

I didnt wanted to say that it should have, I also think more than Omni but honestly not that much cause allos where biting to bleed out their prey but Raptors just slashed Open the whole Body with their foot claws

[twilit seal]

I think if you mean bleeding out from 1-2 bites as a smaller dino from allo more has to do with low hp after the hits. Cerato can do similar levels of bleed with its charge bites because the lower your hp is you bleed more

[grim moss]

Stegos had drip

[thorny mist]

trex did not need that stamina buff whatsoever

[elfin night]

We know

[astral basalt]

I think if an omni gets bitten on the base tail from an allo and immediatly Sits down with reduced bleed Mutation it shouldnt drop to 50% blood

[twilit seal]

From what ive seen from vids and talks on discord afaik bleed on the bite was nerfed significantly but like everything on ht we cant really test until its out on live on free admin servers

But i mean, allo v omni, why wouldnt allo just pin each omni to death lol instead of bites

Same tactic as omni v troodon

And allo has a 180 degree range infront to use the pounce even more than omni and rex

[astral basalt]

Yeah I think the pin is good enough it doesnt Need Crazy bleed on bite too especially if its 4 shoting Omni anyways

[random stump]

So is stego just straight unplayable now since they made it and rex have equal run times

whereas before you could get away since you could run like 3x as long

[viscid mica]

Depends did you prime or na? No prime not playable prime very playable

[dawn cipher]

#balance-feedback message @rough pewter
I partially endorse this -- I think gliding above 60% should allow stam regen, but no regen for any form of powered flight. But circling thermals should restore stam if above 20% imo.

[rough pewter]

Ok

[rough pewter]

Yeah sounds better that way

[rough pewter]

Fixed it

[dawn cipher]

O you didn't have to change it xD I just wanted to weigh in. Because I kind of like the idea of ptera rewarding map knowledge & stamina management, while still being a little more forgiving than vanilla. If a fullgrown deino can regen stam while swimming regardless of threshold, then I see no reason a ptera shouldn't be able to gain a bit while gliding

[viscid mica]

@peak ore please explain why carno NEEDS the ability to knock things its same size down will standing still as the 2nd fastest dino in the game?

[analog zodiac]

bro u playing allo and complaining abt carno being an rmb simulator lmao

[analog zodiac]

and those carnos are def prime

[maiden temple]

If that head flick carno does cost stamina I have no issues with it causing KD

[maiden temple]

I'm curious, how can you tell? I'm not used to allo's size at all so it's very hard for me to tell how big these are

[faint robin]

So what was changed about maia, stego, rex and allo?

[valid robin]

Yeah ngl I’m 100% on board with carno being a giant threat to growing dinosaurs, I think it costing Stam is probably the perfect way to balance it

Maybe the some of the small tiers need a buff to be able to survive it a little better but generally I think it’s great design

[analog zodiac]

look at the horns they are like a different shape

adults are different

[viscid mica]

What I was playing is irrelevant and no those aren’t primes you goof they ain’t even fg primes are far thicker and have way bigger horns. The reason I made the suggestion is cuz the same thing happened to me yesterday as a prime dill against a carno that was barely 900 if I’m being generous

[viscid mica]

It doesn’t

[viscid mica]

He can’t cuz those aren’t primes

Dondi confirmed it was a bug earlier today anyway so

[maiden temple]

[viscid mica]

It can knock things roughly 100-200kg bigger than it too

No build up

Just hold rmb and left click

And it’s super spammable

Practically no cooldown

[maiden temple]

I saw the horn spam, it's so bs that it's free but yh. Cera's charge was free for ages too

[viscid mica]

Ugh don’t remind me

But ya no I’ve had that happen as carno v carno cera allo and prime dilo

Carnos are super op rn

[mellow badger]

whats happening with my prime unlock? I cant get prime even tho i have done all of the requirements, and i have gone through multiple zones tons of times?

is it because i logged out during the run?

[viscid mica]

They changed it go watch kouga video on yt for current solution

[maiden temple]

I was typing that, fast fingers

[mellow badger]

i just looked at his chanel, is it the one about the "spot"?

[maiden temple]

Yees 😄

[mellow badger]

is that working for yall?

[maiden temple]

I'm staying away from HT but def worth giving it a try. A lot of people complained about being unable to get prime

Might as well try the special spot

[mellow badger]

ok, u know that guy that does the rants on the isle?

[maiden temple]

Nope

[mellow badger]

lemme see if i can find him, i was watching one of his vids yesterday, and i think he came up with a prety valid way to run the elder system using diets

[analog zodiac]

Stop crying abt things being an right click simulator if u play allo and yes those were def fg and I’m pretty sure they were prime (maybe not full prime)

[viscid mica]

Read up afew of my messages and realize your crying about spoiled milk I didn’t spill

I’ve played with it and encountered it on many other species and played with it. I just happened to get a good clip while on a allo grow

[analog zodiac]

Where am I crying I don’t even care abt carno u the one complaining lmao

[viscid mica]

[analog zodiac]

Nothing better to say xD

[viscid mica]

Here you go you lazy bugger

[analog zodiac]

Let them have their buff after they were bullied the whole time in gateway xD

We have better things to worry abt then carno rn

[viscid mica]

They can have a buff but the knock down shouldn’t be standing instant 1tap it’s op

Not really

[analog zodiac]

Whatever u say

[viscid mica]

Everyone just hyperfixating on allo and Rex

[dusky surge]

i genuinely hate the argument of "you play this so you have no room to talk about this"

both are bad lmao

[viscid mica]

Things like cera and carno are sliding under the radar when they are significantly over preforming atm

[dusky surge]

pin-to-win allo and ramspam carno are both bad

[viscid mica]

Yes

I never defended allo 😭

[dusky surge]

no one is saying ramspam carno is worse than pin to win allo

they're both awful for the game

[viscid mica]

Ye

[dusky surge]

this literally never had to be a fight

[viscid mica]

I’m just addressing the more neiche stuff cuz it’s been sliding under the radar too much lately

[viscid mica]

Tell bro that 😭

[tight cove]

@ivory abyss usually i would agree with you but now that maia's dmg has been buffed and the fact that growing as a herbivore is super easy id say its fine for maia to be slow and vulnerable while growing.

[ivory abyss]

i mean like the that the buffs are great but this is what i would want instead

[steep gazelle]

Maia is slower than a Cerato until it reaches 60% growth xd

Maia being slow when she spawns is fair enough, but staying that way for more than half her life is pretty stupid

[tight cove]

how long does it take maia to grow with perfect diet?

[steep gazelle]

2-3 hours I think

[tight cove]

Ok, so if anything they can keep maia slow until 50% i think that's justified now that maia got buffed

[steep gazelle]

At 30%, I'm fair enough for him to still have that speed, but above that he should already be running between 41-43 km/h.

Making Maia so slow only encourages AFK growth and also makes it uninteresting to play

[tight cove]

those are good points ngl but keep in mind lets say maia runs at 41 at 35% growth at that point your fast enough to outrun everything that can kill you easily solo like cera or allo or rex while also not weighing a lot a believe, idk if i said that right but what im trying to say is i think juvi maia should be a consistent good sized meal for mid tier+ dinos idk how much maia weighs at that % of growth though

normal cera isnt a mid tier imo at least

FG maia especially with this new buff is gonna be almost unkillable so thats why i think it being so slow is fine, but maybe it could get a small buff in terms of juvi speed at leaste

[steep gazelle]

A Maia at this percentage doesn't have enough weight to knockdown a Cerato and probably doesn't even do any damage. A good Cerato would easily kill a Maia at this percentage without the slightest difficulty...

[tight cove]

I didnt say a maia could do this 😭

[steep gazelle]

Oh, my bad. I read it wrong

[steep gazelle]

Well, Cerato will probably manage to keep biting Maia butt until he kills him

Not to mention that the Bleed caused by Cerato very high, due to the high damage output and puke

[tight cove]

So what are you saying bro? I'm confused 💀

I already know cera can kill a small maia no problem

[steep gazelle]

That Maia reaches a higher speed sooner, that's what I've been saying from the beginning

[tight cove]

ok i can agree that maia can get a buff to the juvi speed but overall i still want a 1500 kg maia to be slow, idk the exact % that would be though

and to solve the uninteresting gameplay they could add some more side objectives for juvies tbh

[frosty heron]

I have a question

Isnt Maia just , bigger , faster and has more power than Allo across the growth time?

Considering the recent buffs

Where is the "cannot run away has to be able to fight back" rule applying here?

[dusky surge]

you gotta remember maia has godawful agility and no bleed, you can still escape it pretty effectively

biped maia might have some of the worst accel and turn in the entire game iirc

[twilit juniper]

As a maia main and enthusiast, i fail to see where is the balance too Maia in the right hands is extremely agile, and the slow acceleration isnt a problem AT all because you can simply tap W+Shift once in quad, switch to biped and you'll entirely bypass the slow acceleration.
It stuns fg dibbles as a prime with a kick, runs faster than omnis, is incredibly agile, instant acceleration, grows faster than teno now, so less than 2 hours and 40 minutes (unless changed), the only downside now i see is that its practically useless until 60-70% grown, which is already over an hour and a half

[dusky surge]

imma be real, is that not indicative more on how egrigiously unbalanced elders are, which, let's be honest, they are

[twilit juniper]

Pretty sure this maia dmg and CC buff is for fg's, but yes, some primes are quite outrageous

[dusky surge]

and said buffs apply to elders too

[twilit juniper]

Ofc, which only highlights the issues, BUT

normal fg maia doing 400 dmg with that little ground double stomp was imo a bit much , from 150 to 250 would have been fine, and stomp 500? (over 600 for prime), 400-450 would have been fine too (from 350)

lower damage than this but keeping the CC abilities would work much nicer in my opinion- as maia not stunning allo with stomps and kicks felt very weird, its only proper stunning tool was shove before, and now its hitbox can't physically hit omnis when standing still because the hitbox is too high up

[twilit seal]

allo cant really escape it effectively, and like atchiett said, the stance switch nullifies the lack of agility and accel, I think stomp and back kick buffs were fine, but the small kicks while quad shouldnt have become 500 from 150 imo

[twilit juniper]

i dunno brother, 500 for stomp is kinda wild, it makes sense, since maia is an absolute muscle beast, all the hadrosaurs were and are, all blunt muscle force, but dayum, increase its growth back to be longer than teno, potentially close to dibble growth hours and then it instantly becomes much better- even with the stronger attacks

As if useless till 60-70% stays, it would have to fend for its little life for over 2 hours (till 60-70%)

Maia rewards its players greatly today 🔥 We eating good, but even i can acknowledge that this might be TOO good

losing 0.2khms would be fine too, to simply make it not outrun omnis

[twilit seal]

i mean since stomp was 350, and needed a shove to chain to hit and its somewhat hard for the average maia to do that, i dont mind it being 500. its teh easier attacks, the alts, being so high damage. side kicks with desycn are super easy to hit

[twilit juniper]

Im gaslighting myself into hoping 500dmg stays simply because 5% dmg cost, and very hard to land both feet, it usually only ticks once, which is 200 dmg

[twilit seal]

the real crime is making the little stomps while quad do 450 damage

[twilit juniper]

yeah that was odd 😵‍💫 150 was too low, but 450 is basically big stomp dmg

450 would have made more sense for the actual double stomp, yknow where the maia moves foward where the animation is quite long

[twilit seal]

pretty sure they do double hit too

[twilit juniper]

rather than the little ground slaps

[grim moth]

as a maia player i agree that some of the stomps need toning down by like minimum 100 dmg but im really liking the cc changes

[twilit seal]

crazy numbers

[twilit juniper]

Agreed- thats what i was saying, the cc is great as im pretty sure that was maias whole niche, crowd control, CC out the kazoo, but overall less dmg (not as low as it was for a 3.7T beast, but not this either)

[twilit seal]

back kicks stun even allos now, and side kicks knock ceras down pretty sure

[grim moth]

di they change maias base weight to 3.7?

[grim moth]

i mean beforehand allo was destroying it so its not bad

[twilit juniper]

Oof- thats rough, side kick doing any kind of stun on larger things doesn't make sense animations wise, but back kick, yeah, sure, its a heavy kick from a 3.7T cow

[grim moth]

allo feels so jank rn tbh

[twilit juniper]

was always that ^^; its 3750

rounded up to 3.8, but actually 3750

[grim moth]

no it was 3.8 tons

[grim moth]

damn as in model wise

[twilit seal]

its so disappointing, like it feels like a PoT dino to control

[grim moth]

it really does

[twilit juniper]

why do yall think allo is jank?

Im guessing its the pounce animations? cause yeah ^^; looks extremely placeholder-y

[twilit seal]

agility is bad, it has no slide, if you stand still and turn you can become a ballerina

[twilit juniper]

ah, yes

[twilit seal]

nah pounce is its own issue, even aside from pounce, it feels bad

[grim moth]

in all honesty its anims feel quite low quality aswell

[frosty heron]

Allo agility is meh , not the worst not the best

[twilit seal]

and trot speed is too slow, like during combat, im not running around all the time, i often trot while baiting hits, but trot is so slow

[twilit juniper]

hey, atleast the insane bite speed makes up for the agility and no drift right

[frosty heron]

Turns in place very quickly tho but that doesnt add much to the agility

[twilit seal]

that has to be changed too

[grim moth]

yeh the 0.5 sec bite speed

[twilit juniper]

i'd be perfectly fine with it staying if its this unagile and doesnt have a good drift

[frosty heron]

That needs a nerf , wont last long

[twilit juniper]

a trade 💔

[twilit seal]

yeah thats my issue, i would trade the fast turn in place for an actual slide and agility buff

[frosty heron]

Also fast bite speed is crazy but talking about Maia I doubt it outdamages it on a trade for bites and a stomp

[twilit juniper]

cant make it more agile than cerato though- or around that size, its a careful line ^^;

[twilit seal]

doesnt have to be more agile than cera, i just want a faster trot speed like cera

that way i can use trot in combat to get a better turn

[grim moth]

its honestly insane that prime allo is so large

[twilit juniper]

allo outdamaging it or maia? cause if an allo facetanks maia, its so unbelievbably cooked

[twilit juniper]

thats a very fair ask

[frosty heron]

I mean Allo wont outdamage Maia

[twilit seal]

and the weird thing is that prime allo trot speed is actually really good, its anything else thats bad

[frosty heron]

Bit worried about the changes , lets give it a bit of time , I agree that Maia needed some sort of buff but I think its too much , it may straight bully Allos on sight

[twilit juniper]

That's usually got elders go huh 😅

[frosty heron]

A decent Maia can play it good and the lack of agility wont be an issue

Also Allo is 35 km/h

[twilit seal]

i mean its almost the triple the speed lol

[frosty heron]

Is slower for a bunch

[twilit juniper]

I proposed a stomp of 450 instead of 500 (from 350), and the little quad ground slaps from 150 to 250 instead (not 450 like it is now) 😵‍💫 keeping really good CC like now

[frosty heron]

I also dislike many other changes that have been made and I dont kinda understand the objetive of those

[twilit juniper]

the one thing keeping maias 500 dmg stomp in check right now is that its very hard to land both feet damage ticks- so often you end up actually only doing 200 damage

big reward, big risk for that much stam and animation lock

[cosmic pelican]

No clips of ht maia, but live branch maia can pull off things like these:

[frosty heron]

Doesnt the shoulder check do more damage also?

[twilit juniper]

yeah, from 50 to 100

i dont mind that- shove is costly and the stun it does is rather short on larger things

[twilit seal]

@kind hollow trike damage is still the same, and its not bugged. it does 2k per tick on standing targets, and 3k per tick on knocked, so 6k

[frosty heron]

Forgot how good Maia drift is

[twilit juniper]

Previous HT build maia drift was nerfed- it was barely a 130 degree drift

seems to be back to easy 180 from the few new maia kit clips ive seen

[frosty heron]

Its crazy they nerfed Rex damage and Stego damage but they left Trike intact

[twilit seal]

i do want apex fights to last longer as well, but its not possible with how trike damage is rn

[frosty heron]

At first I thought it was to make apex fights last longer , but why Trike still nukes you in a single mistake?

[twilit juniper]

(which is something i'd personally trade for the stomp damage, but only stomp, a 120-130degree drift instead of a whole turn around)

[frosty heron]

Maia after the buffs is in a weird spot

Its a herbi that actually requieres some hands to be played , now ill be worried to find one of those if im playing the slower carnis

[twilit seal]

like look at this. rex crush is supposed to be the most devastating attack in game

[grim moth]

if they up teh dmg but lower the fracture id be fine with that

[twilit seal]

trike flip attack, the hold lmb does 1100 itself

[grim moth]

jesus

[twilit seal]

and it is very spammable

[frosty heron]

It was when it was doing 3k damage , now lowkey does joke damage for a 12+ hour playable biggest attack

[twilit juniper]

Yeah, im excited to see where maia buffs will go, i just hope they dont take this as a ''oh no, maia is too strong now, nerf it'' and make it worse than it originally was 💔

[grim moth]

prob how it will go

[frosty heron]

Nah imo Maia can get the buffs , maybe tone down those that are bit too much like the croud control damage ones a lil bit , I just dont want Maia to become a mid tier carni hunter

[twilit seal]

i dont mind when playables that have higher skill ceilings get buffed tbh, its the attacks that are easy to land are a problem

[finite trout]

Maia should be handling creatures like Cerato and Carno, not Allosaurus

[grim moth]

bro what

[finite trout]

In a fight. It can mess with Allosaurus too easily right now.

[frosty heron]

@kind hollow I agree with your suggestion but Trike still nukes you , there isnt any dmg nerf on it

[twilit juniper]

Maia is 3.750T 💔 Allo is 2.6, it should absolutely have a fair-ish 1v1 fight

[grim moth]

its 3.7 tons andd ur telling me it shouldnt able to fight allo

[finite trout]

That's exactly what I'm saying. Who cares for size when it can escape Allosaurus at any point, and comfortably. It has no need to fight one as good as it does right now.

[grim moth]

holy yappington did u even play maia before the patch

[kind hollow]

yeah they need to fix the double dmg bug then see how it pairs up, besides, you don't need to fight it xd

[finite trout]

Yes?

[twilit seal]

its not a bug, its just a double damage attack

it has 2 hits combined

[finite trout]

I know Maia well. It was comfortably escaping Allosaurus before the patch. Even its quadruped run is faster than Allosaurus.

[grim moth]

so u must know how horrific its attacks were , albeit the current ones need a tweak on the dmg but its so much better

[frosty heron]

I dont need to fight it but if im a same sized Rex I should be able to , right now considering the nerfs I wont be ever thinking on it , also it will make Trike life pretty boring without a proper danger , needs that thrast attack damage nerfed

[finite trout]

I love the new attacks. The damage should be nerfed though.

[grim moth]

its a mid tier herbi , yes it can run but smth thats 1ton smaller than it really shouldnt be wiping the floor with it

[kind hollow]

yeah it's 2 hits should deal 3k total like in main branch

they were changing trike around, like it's range on hits has significantly decreased andi think they put the wrong value in

[twilit seal]

no its the same on main branch, total does 4k standing 6k knocked down

[frosty heron]

I can confirm it does 6k

[kind hollow]

nu uh

[finite trout]

It's a mid tier runner with a significant stamina and speed advantage on Allosaurus. Not to mention a far superior trot. There is no reason for it to even have a close fight with Allo.

[twilit seal]

theres nothing unintended with trike rn

[frosty heron]

I saw it nuking a 7 ton Rex , on a single thrash

[finite trout]

The damage needs reevaulating is my point.

[twilit seal]

its been like that since they buffed its base damage from 600 to 900

[grim moth]

i really dont think seem to understand the raw brute strength of hadrosaurs anyways stop complaining anymore than 1 allo and the maia is cooked

[kind hollow]

ht dmg needs a look at i def agree.. but back before i switched to being a carni player i played a good few hundred hours on trike, it was 100%, without a shred of a doubt 3k main branch

[cosmic pelican]

Maia used to be very slept on lol

[twilit juniper]

Para better not be shafted 💔 6-7T para PLEASE, a real beast

[kind hollow]

and 2k normal

[twilit juniper]

too much is just as bad as too little

[twilit seal]

well idk what to say to you, ive tested the numbers, and they are also still in the files. it used to be 3k before they buffed it to 6k, thats when it could one shot stegos when knocked, it still does

[twilit juniper]

can we please have a middle ground 💔 thnx

[finite trout]

I'm talking about game balance here. I could care less if it's a hadrosaur or a theropod. A creature that is over 10km/h faster than another one, which doesn't even need to hunt to eat, and can run off and survive well - does not need the capabilities of fighting comfortably vs an Allosaurus.

[kind hollow]

that's a head hit

[twilit seal]

no its not

[kind hollow]

dude i've had to fight enough to know frfr

[twilit seal]

headhit kills it in 1 tick, youre right, cuz it has 2x meaning 3k times two is 6

you can literally get on a free admin server rn, find a stego and try that

idc how many hours you got, its just numbers

[cosmic pelican]

Nah nah, I love fighting maias, if theres an overpopulation thats awesome for me

[grim moth]

well its neither of our games dondi has said that so i think we should both just accept stuff , plus maia is easily gonna be gettin a dmg tweak soon

[cosmic pelican]

They used to be so rare

[twilit seal]

you kill a stego with 1 body hit if its knocked, if you get 2 ticks to hit of the thrash attack

[kind hollow]

i've fought about 40 stegos man, and that's not just me bumping up the numbers

[twilit seal]

like i said, get on free admin, and try it

[finite trout]

It's in the HT. Quite literally the perfect time for feedback. It needs a damage nerf. I don't expect it to be fodder either, I just think it's overperforming with its values.

[grim moth]

i have quite literally saidd several times that its dmg is too high rn

[twilit juniper]

I mean a prime allo facetanking a prime maia, maia wins, but the maia would be around orange/red hp, so the damage is pretty even only reason maia wins is because of the stuns it has

[twilit seal]

allo shouldnt even try to facetank , can play for the bleed with claw attacks

[finite trout]

Yeah, and it's current values is why it's handling Allosaurus as well as it does right now. Which is why I said it shouldn't.

[grim moth]

which it needs so it can leg it after

[kind hollow]

i mean i can redownload main branch.. but i've also played a ton of practice sessions on admin servers

[twilit juniper]

Yeah, but my point is that allo still has an extremely good chance agaisnt THIS beast maia, ive seen some really good allo players

[grim moth]

but allo shouldnt mop the floor with it , one solo allo shouldnt be having an easy time with a solo maia and yes before u say i agree its dmg is too high rn

[kind hollow]

wifi is like 10mb/s tho

[twilit seal]

yeah idk why allos are so worried, all allos ive seen are literally just going in blindly trying to spam pounce or bites expecting to win

[twilit seal]

I had a clip of me testing it but its old and idk if i can find it

[twilit juniper]

yeah 😭 its like rex bro.. spam crush/pin/pounce

[twilit seal]

i mean, rex has to spam crush, other attacks arent that useful especially after the nerfs, but they can still bait

[kind hollow]

yeahh i scrolled through mine to try find some medal clips but it's been yeeted xd

[grim moth]

we love pinslop dont we

[twilit juniper]

heavy muzzle swing and the muzzle flip are really really good imo-

[finite trout]

A damage nerf is fine. I don't want it mechanically neutered.

[twilit juniper]

it even throws stegos, its wild

[kind hollow]

i tell u what, no lie if u test it i'll bet you £5 it'll be 3k for a body shot

[grim moth]

like it was before the buff

[kind hollow]

make it 10

send via pay pal, bank whatever u need

[twilit seal]

Yeah but why would I use a 400 damage stun attack instead of a 1000 damage stun attack that can also fracture i can chain with a bite attack yknow?

[twilit juniper]

i think putting a hefty HEFTY cooldown on rex crush and most generic insta pin attacks would go a long way 😭 no need to nerf damage, just force people to use it as an ambush tool, im talkin over 1 min cooldown

[twilit juniper]

yeah, i getchu

[kind hollow]

And a public apology in here saying i was wrong

[grim moth]

rex players rely on their crush way too much

[twilit seal]

I dont want anything lmao i just want to enlighten you

[frosty heron]

Good way to destroy its apex hunt capabilities

[kind hollow]

no no i insist, back up your claims

[twilit seal]

You dont really need any attacks other than crush and the alt head swing tbh

[finite trout]

What is hefty. Like how long *

[frosty heron]

I cant use crush for 1 minute and Stego or Trike can spam their attacks on me

[grim moth]

in fights against rexes i literally just see them waiting for their crush to recharge

[twilit juniper]

this wouldn't be without the others getting put in check 💔 i just dislike pinslop

i dont think any pins should exist in my opinion, only heavy CC or pin with EXTREME regulations 💔

[twilit seal]

Yeah cuz whoever gets fracture first wins

[frosty heron]

On those apex fights the pin only happens below certain hp threesold , as it is now it does pin when the prey reachs orange health

[grim moth]

no as in as a herbi vs rex

[frosty heron]

If youre way smaller tho you deseve to be pinned or you will just run away

[twilit juniper]

i dunno, ive seen the clips, rexes going around just 1 tapping even prime stegos without a worry in the world

[twilit seal]

I mean same thing, why would you not want to use the highest damage attack with cc that can fracture instead of what, a bite that does 700 damage on a 3 sec cd

[frosty heron]

Thats not possible since Crush doesnt pin Elder Stegos right way

[grim moth]

ik ik it just feels so scummy

[frosty heron]

You need to land 3 crushes or so first

[twilit juniper]

hmm.. interesting, i wonder what this rex nerf did, cause it said CC

stricter pin requirements? i dont quite get it

[twilit seal]

Like if the bite was actually more usable, i would understand it. I also prefer if frac damage was nerfed but damage was buffed

[frosty heron]

This was happening even when Rex was first released on HT , its not new

[grim moth]

it would just work a lot better

[frosty heron]

Not sure what changes to CC have been made , maybe the alt swing does not CC bigger targets now

I still 5T Rex and didnt had my time to test it

Btw whoever told me Rex is now 6 hours lied to me lol , its still like 10 hours

[grim moth]

why would it be 6 hours 😭 it takes 3 hours alone to get to like 300kg

[frosty heron]

I dunno I was discussing that the Rex needs some power due to the long growth time and someone said that it grows quicker

[grim moth]

what a stinky rat

[frosty heron]

And I can confirm it does not , ive been 6 hours playing with a decent 120-130% growth boost and im still 61%

Maybe 7 hours

[maiden temple]

So there's no angle to approaching it without getting ccd, you'd rely on missed attacks animation cooldowns

The back kick really deserved a buff, but the quick side kicks are dirty

It's a bit disappointing to see every fight turn into a 2-3 min encounter now I can't lie

[pulsar current]

Oh, I rather like the direction they are moving with the longer fights tbh. Might help things feel less empty and more alive if you're more likely to hear ongoing fights and stuff rather than clowns 1call spaming over and over again.

[twilit seal]

I mean, you shouldnt be blindly going in on any dino, back kick and stomp doing more damage is fine imo, just the fact that fast and easier to land attacks got buffed too

[maiden temple]

Yeah, long fights were heart racing, hand shaking pvp with elements where you had to retreat and were followed. I find myself in face offs now. We make a tiny arena and fight there in one short burst and that's it after hours of growing lol

[maiden temple]

Yeah this includes an initial free hit from an ambush to start you off. But if cc can happen at any given angle it's a bit too discouraging imo. There has to be a safer side that one has to attack and other defend/hide

Like stego's head, although it's probably also not a thing now with power swing actually hitting in front of you even with animation not matching it

[twilit seal]

Yeah I mean maia is also faster than carnis it can beat, which made it a bit problematic. These changes will be adjusted hopefully

[maiden temple]

I'm sure they will, it just put a big 'avoid' sign on it. Herbis want to be hunted

[twilit seal]

I do want maia to be in a good spot because it adds more prey items if its popular, and it is arguably the hardest playable to master

My issue is that even mais that blindly spam attacks will be rewarded now thanks to the buffs

[maiden temple]

Yeah..

[viscid mica]

@prisma ember don’t play hordetest it’s always a sespool as the anticheat is always worse and or play unofficial server on main branch evirma

[hasty coyote]

I’m late to the convo, but yeah Maia is gonna be an absolute monster on the ht. Most good Maias could consistently kill stuff like cera and teno, who are a LOT slower. So good luck surviving a good Maia now lol, they’re just gonna be bigger carnos.

Granted, with all the buffs to ceras and primes, Maia ain’t nearly as much of a problem as other things, but it’s still very much gonna be a problem.

[frosty heron]

Stego bleeds out a fully grown Rex on 2 powerswings now , really thinking if its a nerf or a rebalance

[mellow badger]

hey, is AI working in HT rn? i cant find anything and im about to go infertile on my prime specimine

[vale brook]

holy based

[valid robin]

Cera got an 100 buff to weight, Maia will go through that in one attack of any type, it’s literally meaningless. Its prime also got nerfed , speed is only 39.8 Kmh, it’s literally slower than a normal adult cera

Cera primes bite force also only scales to 175 base, so it only does 16.6% more damage as prime

Ngl everyone talking about how OP cera is but it gets run by most of the things on HT rn, people talking about how Carno and Teno can’t beat it when that’s basically the only thing it has going for it

[faint robin]

https://youtube.com/shorts/P_hCb6WVfzA?si=oyRQCy-v03RFbQow rex is too agile

[frosty heron]

Skilled Rex kills Trikes in a fair 1v1: "Rex is too agile"

Trike nukes Rex in a single interaction; "Rex is skill issuing"

Before someone ask whats the interaction im talking about;
https://youtu.be/eQrdGl4FVc4?si=VuAnY998dEBvL-hl

Rex is too agile? Maybe

Trike does too much damage

[hasty coyote]

I never said Maia ain’t a problem, very much still will be. But at least Maia takes some effort to be a monster, there are far more problematic dinos. The prime cera speed nerf def helps with like 90% of the issues it had in particular, but it ain’t the only one with an op prime.

[hasty coyote]

To be fair, that trike had to be much larger than the Rex to flip it, and especially to 1-tap it. Namely the fact that it’s prob prime or on the way to prime. Prime Rex does the same thing to young trikes because le funni leg break and pin.

I do agree thrash def needs a nerf since Rex and stego damage got nerfed. But I also think Rex either needs more difficulty to leg break or to simply not leg break. Like make it body fracture, and it will achieve the same result, especially with the nearly 2 minutes of sprint time.

[faint robin]

It is before the changes

Cuz after it seems that rex fractures same sized trike in 2 crushes