balance-feedback-discussion

[crystal stream]

Sounds great but I never asked if you have fun with it I’m saying it’s a lame and stupid idea and playable

[dusky surge]

easier to feed off its actual intended prey, way more fun to traverse and hunt with, etc

it clearly isnt because people, like me, genuinely enjoy it

[crystal stream]

I have a feeling once more playables comes out carnos getting left behind

I mean the small game hunter meal plan is going to get old esp when you have allo which can hunt larger and smaller r things whenever it wants

Idk could be wroung can’t tell the future

But it’s fair to assume

[dusky surge]

wouldnt it still be fine because there will always be new small animals or juvis for it to exceed at hunting

[crystal stream]

Oh boy can’t wait to hunt th new protoceratops as my 1.3 ton carno sounds like a blast man

Can’t wait to become the most braindead playable and run around the map forever looking for anything small enough so my crappy playable doesn’t get dookied on

[dusky surge]

allo won't be half as good at catching up with them, because carno is fast as hell comparatively to everything else

[crystal stream]

And then once I find it I’m going to miss most of my charges because I’m trash then proceed to do fifty zigzags while fazing through him to kill and then do it over and over again

[crystal stream]

Allo is jst better

[dusky surge]

eh

[crystal stream]

Like oh no I can’t hunt a galli as my allo what will I do

[dusky surge]

i mean... you can play it but i'd probably still prefer carno personally

[crystal stream]

That’s cool you can play carno and ill quit the isle

[dusky surge]

cool

[crystal stream]

Play pot or some shish

Nah but fr we need a better dinosaur game

Pot ain’t going to cut it

[keen plover]

nah carno is pretty cooked with how some creatures just grow to large sizes quickly. Juvi's also have sanctuaries. Everyone plays mids + most of the time as well.

[crystal stream]

I ligit can’t play a game with this version of carno it’s so damn sad

Completely ruins it

[cobalt dagger]

I haven't read everything, just the surrounding messages.

If you make it able to hunt teno, it WILL be able to hunt Cera. Because Teno is the tougher of the two. Both basically have CC right now, but Teno's tail is longer than cera's face, and teno's bleed is more devastating, which carno is weak to.

It can also already hunt cera or teno when carno has a numbers advantage.

I don't know why people underestimate how powerful speed is in this game. But speed lets you run away when you're solo or out numbered, live to fight another day - Or live long enough to find friends, and then come back when there's 7 of you. (Yep I've seen groups of 7 carnos.) No cera or teno or carno or dilo could survive 7 carnos, probably not maia either. I mean, my maia died to 7 carnos but I'm a bad maia. But I doubt a good one could get out alive either.

Speed + Numbers = Death and carno is both incredibly fast and has perfectly respectable weight and damage. The ONLY thing that can outrun a megapack of carnos is a galli.

As it is, solo carno absolutely destroys solo dilo and raptors if they don't jump on a rock on time. It's an hour of that player's life gone. I like to play a lot of dilo and I used to be able to dodge it, but now that it's got this better turn rate I can't dodge it even if I'm playing something nimble, like raptor. They just forever chip your tail away and chase you into the forest because their better acceleration and turn radius allows them to manuver in trees now.

I'm pretty sure carno turns better than dilo at this point.

[crystal stream]

Carnos fine the way it is bruh

[cobalt dagger]

Wait, you're fine with it's reduced weight and damage?

I thought you wanted it to be able to hunt teno again.

[crystal stream]

Nah bro that ship has sailed bruh carnos to long gone

[cobalt dagger]

Well, I agree with you. I actually feel carno is OK right now. It's sure annoying to get killed by them as raptor or dilo, but I feel that is the price Raptor pays for pinning everything smaller than itself.

Dilo, I guess that's the price it pays for 700 hp, 85 dmg and venom? Dilo is still incredly fast.

[crystal stream]

I feel like Carno jst ruined the game for me

[cobalt dagger]

But 700 hp, venom and good damage combined with good speed for 1 hour growthing and eating sea turtles...

That's a good deal... So I can't be mad if carnos hunt them I guess.

[crystal stream]

Carnos jst so braindead I can’t even play a game with its current form in it

[cobalt dagger]

As in, it takes no skill to hunt with it?

[crystal stream]

Pretty much yes

If your going for the intended target

[cobalt dagger]

I think it takes a bit of skill, maybe less now that it's turn rate is increased. But it's probably not much like teno combat skill level, or maia.

[crystal stream]

Teno v Mia would be so damn fun for Carno but instead the game chooses to directly hinder there player base so ig it’s jst not for me

[cobalt dagger]

Oh you want to fight big things, and I assume also have it so those big things can't run away from you

[crystal stream]

I want it to be a fun matchup for both parties

[cobalt dagger]

Well Maia is both physically larger and also grows longer. If carno could catch up to it, AND kill it, I'd be sad.

[crystal stream]

It should take skill to take down a Mia and the Mia should use skill to take the Carno down

Mia v Carno current isn’t that bad rn

Carno is jst so underwhelming with its dmg and overall performance

As much as I don’t want to ig I’m playing pot

[maiden temple]

lol as if that is comparable

[crystal stream]

Usless someone makes a good dinosaur game for once and a jp clone in a game

[maiden temple]

arcade-y combat with tailriding as meta vs skill based encounters that can go either way

I doubt anyone will make a good one, it's a niche BUT I'd love if JP did

With that budget and reach it would be very fun

[cobalt dagger]

I used to main Teno back on Spiro, when carno was big.

The 1 v 1 was fun with them... But I almost never got that.

Carnos would dance around me, feel me out, realize I knew what I was doing after 30 seconds, and bail.

I'd wander around with no fights, until numbers situations. I once had 3 carnos put their dumb faces in my tail, bite it, bite each other due to layering, get kicked in the face and tail slammed in the face, and still kill me. No skill, just face tanked the most dangerous part of me. And I died. Can't out run them, too big to hide, skill means nothing because I hit all my shots perfectly (since they let me.) They probably bled out after killing me if I had to guess. We probably all died or something, or at the least they HAD to be hurting.

But as you ask for fun match up for both sides... Getting out numbered like that and dying to sheer numbers to a bunch of unskilled goobers face tanking my tail, is not fun. But that's what happens when something had speed advantage. The same exact thing happened to my teno yesterday and 5 dilos who, didn't face tank me, they tried to play smart, but I kicked em... sadly they bit me before that and I am confident their venom stacks with groups now.

[steep gazelle]

Carno is in really bad state. Many of those who think he's fine are just Carno haters that don't want to have any trouble dealing with him xd

[crystal stream]

I don’t like the ability’s and combat but atleast they do dinos justice

[maiden temple]

Recent patch disagrees

Besides, as a solo player it's virtually unplayable since solo servers were closed

But that's vastly off topic

[dusky surge]

i quite literally play carno more than ever since the changes, im hardly a hater

i despise cera infinitely more

[crystal stream]

Your outnumbered you where going to lose

Cry abt it

Idk how else to put it

[cobalt dagger]

Yes, and I'm telling you speed deeply impacts numbers.

You told me you want it to be fun for both sides - I'm telling you speed advantage means teno won't have fun because teno won't get 1 v 1s, it will get ignored until it's out numbered. (Same story for cera.)

[maiden temple]

That's very sad! I've had toooons of encounters and amazing fights, it was so enjoyable that most of my hours have been spent on teno on spiro 😄
When did you play?

[crystal stream]

You act like I actually want to play pot but is much rather play it than this

[maiden temple]

You're not forced to play games so that's a want yes 😛

[keen plover]

I feel like this is not a really good example idk? This is a very common thing and will continue to be so.

[steep gazelle]

I didn't say that about you, you might be the exception. But most of them are just players who don't want to learn how to play against Carno and prefer to nerf him at all costs

[cobalt dagger]

Right as Cera was added, actually.

But I guess by then people started to realize tenos could be dangerous and play careful. I also try not to body camp or kill babies so I probably don't PICK as many rights as some people do, which reduces the amount of fights I have in total.

[crystal stream]

Being outnumbered doesn’t have to do with speed as a teno I can outnumbered all the time

[maiden temple]

Aw yeah it was just bad timing honestly, it's about where I had to stop as there was no escape from ceras ;_;

[cobalt dagger]

Common thing is why it's a fantastic example of numbers advantage and 'if we wanna talk about a fun match up for both parties' then you need to look at how unfun that match up is. If you don't care about fun then there's no point in mentioning it.

[crystal stream]

A good Dino game is hard to find

[cobalt dagger]

Funny enough I tested, cera and teno back then had the same run timer and same speed but teno trots faster. So teno kinda can escape from ceras back then and still now as well.

[crystal stream]

Otherwise I’d jst go play seige or smth

[steep gazelle]

Like, leave Carno limited to things smaller than 1t, but remove the main weapon (Auto-Hit) that actually made Carno a fear for those things? At least I hope there is an increase in damage to the charge to compensate for those who really know how to play with it

[maiden temple]

I raced friends, in a perfect scenario I could get away, but these just don't happen

[cobalt dagger]

Get away is the best hope when there's numbers. Right now though, in current version, because teno can use some of it's attack on no stam now and because it walks faster, it can actually chase ceras to death if it wants to.

[maiden temple]

I am so not interested in biting a cera to death, that would take ages and a ton of stam

[keen plover]

That's like complaining about being a solo cerato and 3 tenos show up. 😭

That's an unfun matchup for cera

or being a raptor and 3 gallis show up

[maiden temple]

It is much better now though, I can reliably get away and I know they won't just walk to get back stam, they'll have to sit if they chase me until reserve

[cobalt dagger]

Well except at least on spiro, those two had the same speed and same run time, so they could run for their lives.

It's more like complaining that I'm cera and 3 carnos show up. Because you can't outrun carnos.

Or like saying I'm a raptor and 4 dilos show up.

The difference is whether or not you can escape the 'that's only death' match up.

[maiden temple]

Teno can handle carno groups, always could, sometimes you just needed a bit of help from terrain I do miss 1v1s with brawler carnos but it is what it is

[cobalt dagger]

In a game where survival is the goal and you are rewarded power via adulthood for staying alive, speed and escaping matters.

[maiden temple]

Devs have their vision as to what they want carno to be, I assume allo will take the brawl approach of old carno

[keen plover]

teno ran faster and had a higher base run time (cerato just had an easier time getting triple carb diet so it had more run time).

[cobalt dagger]

Speed or escape methods are super powerful right now.

[cobalt dagger]

This is true but it also couldn't attack on 0 stam, mostly, so if you as the cera ran like no tomorrow until both of you were dead out of stamina, you'd win the fight once you were cornered.

[keen plover]

alt attack took 0 stam lol. You'd be blendered by 3

[cobalt dagger]

That is not possible anymore; in current version, cera faces the fate you mention, as if they both run until dead out of stamina, the tenos can alt-attack it to death

[maiden temple]

Alt attack cost stam on spiro

[keen plover]

you also had the charge bite slide which added endlag to your ability

[keen plover]

but you could use it out of stam

[crystal stream]

Teno is stronger than Carno no matter if you get outnumbered it is what it is

Plus use the wall or water to increase survival

[cobalt dagger]

Right now yeah, except when there's 4 or 3 your teno will die.

[crystal stream]

Welp then you die

[maiden temple]

If you regen enough back yeah, I could not spam it. It took time

[crystal stream]

Numbers should play a factor

[keen plover]

Nah in 6.5 you could alt attack when out of stam

[cobalt dagger]

I agree that removing the impact of numbers would be sad. I'm saying that we need to acknowledge how speed and numbers interact.

[maiden temple]

After cera I assume, that's when I byebye'd

[crystal stream]

A teno herd is pretty much untouchable rn

[keen plover]

Cerato release yeah

[maiden temple]

Only a herd of pachies/dryos/hypsis isn't

[crystal stream]

I know but saying that you lost a solo teno to a pack of carnos is a reason to nerf Carno

It’s a numbers game

Tbh carnos at max could be in pairs

But ik that would never happen

[cobalt dagger]

I did not say that's a reason to nerf carno. You told me you wanted a fun match up, and I'm trying to talk about match ups that were not fun, that happen because of the speed difference.

I'm trying to outline speed's impact on number's situation.

I'm not saying carno should be slower though. Only trying to help you guys see that speed WILL = numbers advantage.

[crystal stream]

Yeah Carno still can do that all the stronger Carno would do is make the 1v1 more fun

[maiden temple]

I think being in 3s is balanced enough for carno

[crystal stream]

Current Carno yes

[cobalt dagger]

I like current carno the way it is.

[crystal stream]

If they buffed carno it should be 2

[crystal stream]

Cool

[maiden temple]

It never felt unbalanced to me

[cobalt dagger]

Oh but you know they'll overpack anyway

Pack limits are only suggestions for all species it seems.

[crystal stream]

Ik that’s why I didn’t really want to say that even if in a perfect world it would work

[maiden temple]

It's not as fun to play honestly

[crystal stream]

Not as fun to fight as teno you mean

[maiden temple]

I'm comparing to brawler carno, which I enjoyed. Where charge wasn't your main weapon at all times and you had to sprint fast enough to activate it

[dusky surge]

i honestly think its more fun to have more agency over movement than what old carno was, which felt extremely bland in combat

[maiden temple]

Old one felt much clunkier, that's true

[cobalt dagger]

I've seen more carnos than I've seen in a long time, they look like they're having fun. But yes, the playstyle changed. Rather than being a creature which can engage with animals it's own size at it's own terms or flee at it's own terms, it became a creature which must be either extremely skilled, cautious, or not engage with those of it's own size until it has numbers. Raptor is actually similar.

I know you guys think it's not fun, but judging by how many carno's I've seen? I'd say people are having fun.

[dusky surge]

nah, 1.8 ton carno relied on charge even more imho due to its nuke level damage

[crystal stream]

I don’t understand how you can think that combat was bland and this current is better

[dusky surge]

350 damage is nuts, far better than the bite force

[maiden temple]

Yeah entering the fight with a charge was the best way to get a good outcome, but then you could just kite and bite

[crystal stream]

Ok so what about dibble or Stego are they not supposed to use there ability’s either

[dusky surge]

nah, biting was never worth it imho. you're missing out on knockdown and far better free damage

[crystal stream]

Or the fact all you do is charge with current Carno

[maiden temple]

It just doesn't feel like a good solo pick anymore, so it became pretty dull to me

[crystal stream]

Jst without cc

[maiden temple]

It's always worth it to make your opponent bleed..

[dusky surge]

ehhh, not with carno, no

carno's bleed damage is so low its effectively not worth the effort

[keen plover]

Depended on the update

[maiden temple]

Plus, getting around tenos with kite and bite was much better than trying to charge them. Good ones will always catch you

[keen plover]

when carno was agile it was 100% worth using bite

[maiden temple]

It is worth it, bleed affects resource regeneration which was very important

It wasn't about bleeding them down, just getting as much advantage as you could

Plus it made people move less

[cobalt dagger]

I mean, if you want to solo things your own size yeah it's a bad solo pick. Same can be said for raptor. But like raptor gets devastating (and slightly unfair) pins on anything smaller than it even as a solo, carno has a much more fair ability to take down raptors and dilos and things smaller than it. Both carno and raptors are fantastic solos - Both for kills and for survival.

But not for big kills.

In my mind, much bigger carnivores (that might have less speed) should be better suited to large solo kills.

[maiden temple]

I can murder so much more on raptor, I'm not a silly one

[crystal stream]

I never got to play older Carno so was it more fun

It looks more fun

And sounds more fun

[keen plover]

missed out on peak

[maiden temple]

Way more fun if you're thinking about a big brawler with a charge to top it off, but it was way clunkier than now

[crystal stream]

I got to play it a lil before gateway

No after gateway

Mb

[cobalt dagger]

Probably because pin is cheesy.

But I'd say the population of carno's biggest solo prey (dilos and raptors) is higher right now so as a carno you'd have plenty of available prey. Half-grown ceras are out there too.

[dusky surge]

imma be real i just never understand why people liked old carno

it was extremely poorly designed, with weaknesses that made no sense or were just thrown on, like a weakness to bleed (making it vulnerable to the MANY small creatures that did bleed), low stam (making it struggle to pursue ANYTHING for long periods of time, despite being a PLAINS ANIMAL), etc

and what it compensated with was the least fun attack to face in the game, a 350 damage nuke moving at a speed far higher than anything with instant CC against tenos

so carnos sucked at hunting anything but tenos and ceras, while small game didn't really fear it at all

[crystal stream]

Tbh larger animal should feel a bit more clunky

[keen plover]

Used to be more agile while running and trotting. Could brawl and bait decently and had charge as a backup tool to either open or end fights. Had a run up so it wasn't an immediate use case

[crystal stream]

I think you jst don’t like old carno

[maiden temple]

I pounce mostly, not pin although when I find a stego small enough I'm always happy to munch

[dusky surge]

i personally don't like carno being a brawler, it just completely counteracts carno as a concept imho, it should be more pursuit oriented since, again, plains animal

[crystal stream]

Personally

[dusky surge]

i dislike it because i found it abysmally balanced

[crystal stream]

Seems pretty balanced to me

[cobalt dagger]

I think people just wanna hunt big stuff and know they can catch it or run away if they're loosing. Which is CRAZY FUN (I'm a chang lover on Beasts of Bermuda: Run up to any poor rex that can't escape me, fight it all I want, maybe I won't get the kill, but it's chance of killing me is low so I can engage free of worry) but I don't think it's balanced or fair for the slower side.

[dusky surge]

it got changes every second update because they had no idea how to make it work

[maiden temple]

Yeah I'm not disagreeing with its purpose, I see the vision for it. It's just not as fun for me personally since I got to play it in a different style

[crystal stream]

Bruh you keep saying big stuff where taking about teno here

There the smae size

[cobalt dagger]

That's more or less what I mean. There are players who complain carno can't kill stego too though.

[crystal stream]

Well where not that

Wasn’t the Stam changes happening around when Carno had bad Stam

[maiden temple]

Teno is the pinnacle of balance, I just wish gastro and tactile weren't in game so the fights would require more thinking and less spamming

[cobalt dagger]

I find it funny because no one ever complains, 'the deino won't come out of the water how can I hunt it.'

Watch the balance feed back long enough.

[maiden temple]

Wait until bigger water dinos are out, it WILL be there

[cobalt dagger]

Well then it will be, 'how do I hunt deino' instead of 'it won't come out of the water let me kill it'

[maiden temple]

'I have to exit water to fight deinos, but they can stay in water, they should have to follow me!'

[cobalt dagger]

True we might see that one

[maiden temple]

I imagine most semi aquatics will be better suited for land combat since there are far more land dwellers and deino will stay the strongest thing underwater, so I can already see this with my third eye

unless we get a megalodon winkwink

[cobalt dagger]

On that note. I would actually like it if there were opportunities for rex to hunt deino. I was thinking, in real life, if it were to hunt a large crocodilian of the correct size to take as prey, it would probably attempt to ambush it while it was sunbathing on the shore.

But the isle's deino has no reason to sunbathe.
I was thinking maybe it could get like, a 5% swimspeed buff for a generous amount of time, like 30 minutes, if it sunbathed for like 5. Then, the deino can think, 'do I risk sitting on the shore where I could be ambushed, to get the extra speed so I have advantage against canni deinos? Or do I risk the canni deinos instead and avoid the shore?'

A small, little speed buff makes a huge difference in survival so it would be enough that deinos would probably sunbathe.

[maiden temple]

I'd say we need floods. This way deino players could travel to another water cource and the rest of the roster could interact with the huge croc on land

And then we need draughts that shrink water sources (getting rid of safe drinking spots), to do the opposite

[cobalt dagger]

I think, rather that floods that the deino would still be swimming in, we should just have more puddles with GREATLY increased fish for herra, deino and PT to enjoy.

Floods are still cool though-

But with more water, deino can puddle-hop more easily instead of dehydrating between water sources,

[cobalt dagger]

But animals could hunt it as it migrates, and new players would die of thrist less because their chances of wandering into water or smelling water would be increased

[maiden temple]

Oh nah, floods would just create puddles and slow down deino's thirst depletion in my mind. Not like full extra swimmable areas

[crystal stream]

I jst found this guy

[cobalt dagger]

Wow, a mole?

[cobalt dagger]

Ohhh I see

[maiden temple]

That's cute :3

The tiny paw awww

[dusky surge]

#balance-feedback message

how to solve the cera issue = add a new issue lol

[cosmic pelican]

Worse than that, he didnt account for ceras stability modifier while charged biting, making its effective weight 1625kg, meaning if carno is able to knock down a cera thats fighting as it should, it will do the same to teno.

[keen plover]

tbf if a teno tail slammed or kicked it would be immune to the cc. Cerato would immediately have a worse time though

[cosmic pelican]

Well yes thats true, but carno has no reason to be knocking over tenos

Also carno knocking over itself

[keen plover]

Well there's a reason why it isn't doing that rn. But in a scenario like that, the counterplay would be obvious

[slim dragon]

Herd up

[keen plover]

Joke or 😭

[slim dragon]

[cosmic pelican]

@molten helm if omnis pounce was made even more stamina efficient (you can already stay latched for 4 mins if you use the correct type), it would be able to kill carnos and ceras with a single pounce using either dmg, or bleed.

[molten helm]

But pullling “e” you can get omnis of you right? Or maybe give a mutation that if you aren’t in a pack you have less waste of stam.

[crimson crater]

why would u want the pack oriented hunter to have enough stamina to fight things way above its pay-grade? the stamina is fine if you’re using it as intended

[maiden temple]

That kind of limiting never works, they will still pack, just won't join the party

If you're playing a solo raptor you'll have to be opportunistic. Stalk your target, it will eventually fight something, fall or take damage in some other way to give you an upper hand. Attack then and there

I don't understand the need to fight on sight on even ground, it's really not the kind of game to do that

[dreamy wadi]

Please make raptors bleed better, currently it is the worst out of the playable, even bepi does better bleed, or trodons which are considerably smaller.

[thorn mountain]

what?

thats kinda just flat out wrong lmao

[dreamy wadi]

And that`s your opinion.
Raptor is a bleeder not a damage and yet it does very little damage to any playable. the enemy dies of damage dealt rather than bleed.

[thorn mountain]

how is it my opinion if its staight missinfo?

thats not a opinion its just facts

[dreamy wadi]

To much emphasis on pack play, most of raptors are better just with friends playing coordinated, when u play with randoms it is kinda worse than being alone.

[thorn mountain]

5 raptors that neutral pounce a trike can get it down to 20% bleed.

[cosmic pelican]

Omni has a pounce variety that can bleed out fg trikes in 3 pounces.

A full neutral pounce deals 3375 bleed damage.

Along with 1125 damage

[thorn mountain]

that

you cant do that with beipi or troodon

raptors also should be coordinated and you can do that through calls if you and your pack are smart enough ive done it

like if they arent thats on them.

[dreamy wadi]

mate u talk like u are some sort of genius, most of players pounce like crazy and i never found randoms to be useful, they always get in the way if not pounce u instead of enemy

[thorn mountain]

I am some sort of genius

[dreamy wadi]

sure

[thorn mountain]

or atleast smarter than you.

[cosmic pelican]

That sounds more like random players having massive skill issues instead of omni needing a bleed buff :/

[dreamy wadi]

u sound big headed not genius to me

[thorn mountain]

lol

ok buddy boy.

if a raptor can succeed in a pack then I dont see whats wrong with it especially if it can hunt what its meant to hunt

[dreamy wadi]

exactly, so why emphasis so much on group play when most playerss dont know how to play, there`s also no tutorials on anything, u have to figure it all out

[thorn mountain]

its a pack animal it should use group play it shouldnt be good as a solo and be able to take down massive animals (it can kill stuff its size and below though)

[dreamy wadi]

ok mate tahts ur opinion and u should keep it for urself, im addressing this prob to devs not u..

[thorn mountain]

so lemme get this straight

you want raptor to get a bleed buff cause you have a skill issue?

[cosmic pelican]

This is already insane stats for a single pounce, it aint getting buffed thats for sure

[thorn mountain]

if I along with many other players can succeed with raptor and kill stuff like trikes and maias and dibbles then I dont think it needs any buffs

also why not put it in balance feedback lol

[keen plover]

tbf it's also a skill issue allowing an omni to even deal that much neutral pounce bleed. It might as well not even exist lol

[cosmic pelican]

In some areas of the map its doable, places like west access and the new savannah only have trees that cant knock you off, except for a very few, that are also far between.

And if the prey decides to buck instead, thats still a win for the omni since it wastes a lot of stamina

[keen plover]

Troll mechanic lol

[cosmic pelican]

The mechanic specifically made to counter pouncers benefits the pouncers more than the victim😊🥰

[molten helm]

I don’t think so when trees knock out a pouncer the screen is bugged so you can’t do nothing they need to fix the trees and the camera of the pouncer.

[dusky surge]

i have a big head to attack predators

[dreamy wadi]

Dude you don`t even know what world u live in nevermind anything else, this is BALANCE-FEEDBACK so what are u on about?

[thorn mountain]

like the actual one where you suggest stuff lol

not the discussion one.

[cosmic pelican]

#balance-feedback
This is #balance-feedback-discussion

[thorn mountain]

devs aint going to see anything here lmao

[dreamy wadi]

mate stfu u chatting just so u give urself some importance, just go mind ur business

[keen plover]

Benefiting is one thing. Current buck is downright useless. Suicide ability.

[thorn mountain]

somebody is a bit mad ay

cant be civil

[dreamy wadi]

No i just think kids like u aren`t happy with the game being fair and like their prefered playable to be Op and the rest easy to kill

[cosmic pelican]

Yeah 😔
Last time I used it was when I got jumped by 2 omnis as a carno on the beach, 0 terrain to knock them off with and no water nearby, so I had to buck.
I wasted so much stamina trying to get them off they ended up grappling me before they ran out themselves

[thorn mountain]

I dont have a prefered playable I play everything lol

[dreamy wadi]

the ammount of bug when pouncing and everything else , the raptor is very weak, it might be strong with a good pack with players that know what to do and how but if u play with randoms it is crap.

[thorn mountain]

so

[dreamy wadi]

So then why make a point about something when u should know full well that raptors are dissadvantaged.

[thorn mountain]

the bugs are the issue not the bleed?

[dusky surge]

raptors aren't that disadvantaged tho lol

they're very strong if competent or properly grouped

[dreamy wadi]

the bugs, the bleed, the friendly pouncing and so on...

[dusky surge]

the bleed is really good what

a few raptors can efficiently bleed out trikes

which is NUTS given that Trike also has bleed res and 9500 bloodpool

[cosmic pelican]

Never forget ^

[dreamy wadi]

u cant expect everyone to know raptor, so then why bet on they good performance as a group so much when most players don`t even know most of its mechanics?

[dusky surge]

why cater to the lowest common denominator? it'll just make actually skilled raptors incredibly unfun to deal with

you get seen by a comptent raptor pack with buffed bleed, might as well just die there lol

[dreamy wadi]

like it is with dible, carno and so on..?

[dusky surge]

they don't have half the punch up capability raptor does

also what's the harm in having a dinosaur take skill lol

[eager saddle]

is it ''omni needs more bleed cuse I can't rely on randoms'' time again? One of my favorite shows

[dreamy wadi]

it isnt about bleed there, its about how easily OP some playable are and others require a lot of skill and in this case coordination in order to get to the same level of efficiency as other do.

[dusky surge]

raptor exceeds the efficiency of others in groups, that's the point of it

[dreamy wadi]

Diablo slides on land and so its mobility is crazy, also hitbox is massive , hitting u 100 yards away from him, also its u even if u in his back and suff like that.

[dusky surge]

also are you using ` instead of ' lol

[dreamy wadi]

I thought we got over the group thing, most players have no ideea how to play and playing as a group in that case makes it an awful challange

[dusky surge]

dibble's mobility also isn't all that imho, it's slow for its size and has had its drift notably worsened

not to mention its standing turn is awful

[molten helm]

I think dibble shouldn’t knock over a player for just hitting him on the tail.

[eager saddle]

that's with every playable tho

you just shouldnt get stunned/knocked over by the tail period.

[cosmic pelican]

Ping difference go brrr

[dusky surge]

you cant

[eager saddle]

then find better people? that's not the playable's fault. Why are you buffing a playable because the playerbase is bad at it?

[eager saddle]

True but it feels that way cuse of LAG

[molten helm]

Oh thanks now I know that it’s because of my ping

[slim dragon]

Ironic, coming from someone who wants omni bleed buffed to compensate for lack of skill

[crimson crater]

omni is objectively the best bleeder in the game, just takes time to apply the bleed. that’s kinda the whole point of an endurance hunter

[maiden temple]

I didn't test in a while but bleed feels decent on raptor, I don't have to reapply it too often after a good pounce even if my target z walks/stands only

That's with targets that aren't full on food+water+stam though, could use some testing on a clean sheet

Knowing the difference of default pounce bleed vs right click bleed could be nice too >.>
People I used to test stuff with quit

[gloomy edge]

@cobalt dagger i think you are mistaken about dilo and carno, as well as how they fare against each other. One big thing i think people are missing in this game currently is sticking to your role, and staying in your best suited environment. Dilo can easily take down carno, as long as it can stay in dense cover, exactly where carno doesnt want to be. The opposite is true in open areas, where carno can stomp dilo any day. I think the point of the game, and the lack of rules with it, are meant to make you play to your dinos strengths, and choose the environments your dino is best suited for. Venom is a perfect example of this. Dilo is weak (in comparison), it cant take much damage. It needs to hide and ambush to be successful. Venom is perfect to trick players in dense foliage, yet it is very easy to tell what is and isnt a clone in an open area. Carno on the other hand, needs vast open areas to succeed. If there are trees, its charge is hindered greatly, making it much harder to fight. Dilos imo really shouldnt try and play together, they should be more solitary hunters, that converge together to take down larger prey. As such, venom as it is is perfect for the role. (Though it should be possible to destroy clones)

[cobalt dagger]

Carno's new agility allows carno to thrive in dense cover. (Inspite of it's advertisment as a plains dino.) Dilo's lack of agility means it never thrived in dense cover; I know what you're saying about roles, but I think you mistake dilo's role: Dilo thrives where it can use it's nighttime sight increase to it's advantage. While forests are darker, they are also so full of bushes that it doesn't matter what your night vision range is if there's too many bushes and trees to see anything anyway. Dilo also can't jump, so catching jumpy prey away from rocks or heights is important (also present in forests) and lastly, dilo turns VERY badly, worse than carno, can gets stuck MORE on trees than carno does in this current version, so dilo in a forest is abysmal.

Also I've been killed by clones and I'd say it's easy to tell what's a clone and what isn't because clones just beeline you and dilos play with more caution. The other thing about clones and open fields and all that is that venom's fog makes it so that in a forest, one gets a foggy forest and the dilo gets a forest which is still decreased visibility, but in a field, one gets thick fog and the dilo gets perfect clear vision. I sorta mained dilo for a while and still come back to it and there is BY FAR more hunting success in a field.

I USED to only use forests to escape carnos but now carno is so agile they kill you in forests, well more importantly your dilo will get more stuck on trees than them. Your best bet is to use your close-to-their-own speed as dilo, as well as greater hp than raptor, and hope you can out-stam the carnos.

[rigid tulip]

Ngl raptor is the best animal in the game but only when you have a large group of well coordinated people, full stamina, perfect terrain and no third partying

No other creature is as reliant on external factors as raptor is

[cobalt dagger]

Well, dryo...

I think dryo relies on groups more than raptor...

[rigid tulip]

You realistically get 3 minutes max of actual fighting before something finds a cliff/wall, dense group of trees or ceras come and kill everyone

That cant really be fixed though

[cobalt dagger]

That's still more battle impact than a group of dryos would have though, isn't it? I can't be convinced that raptors vs enemy with trees is actually less effective than dryos vs enemy with trees

[rigid tulip]

I wasn’t making any kind of statement about dryo i was just saying how raptor actually is to play typically

A lot of waiting not a lot of playing

[cobalt dagger]

Oh, I was arguing about how there is something that relies more on extra factors than raptor

But to be honest dryo is the bottom of balance right now

[rigid tulip]

I suppose troo is the same way

[gloomy edge]

I strictly only play dilo, so i agree its turn is worse. But as for the rest, i disagree. The venom fog is good in fields, but its even better in the forest, as you can crouch ip to your target out of the fog much easier

[cobalt dagger]

Poor thing can't do anything, not even the special feature it was supposed to do.

[rigid tulip]

Any kind of dino that pretty much has to pounce to win means that terrain can make them unplayable and a third party = death

Because stamina has to be used to do damage

[gloomy edge]

Carno is bigger, and catches on trees much easier than dilo

[rigid tulip]

This isn’t the case with raptor though if you’re good enough you can chip someone down with your puny 5 second cooldown bites

[cobalt dagger]

I've never seen anyone who let a dilo crouch up to it. Most just attack the clones and dilo alike.

[rigid tulip]

And its actually very good at that, just one mistake and you’re dead though with new knockdowns

[cobalt dagger]

Surely you've had situations where your tiny dilo can't fit through trees it visibly should be able to?

[gloomy edge]

Dilo is thin, and can walk straight through plants that give away your position by moving without so much as a touch

[rigid tulip]

In a 1v1 in an open field omni is by far the most skill reliant and highest skill cieling dino in the game

In an open field with a group and no trees its the most braindead “just dogpile on and pin because more of me less of you”

[cobalt dagger]

I do wish raptor was less 'pin' oriented. Like, the pin is DEADLY but you need a lot of conditions to make it happen and without pin, raptor is really bad right now.

Pounce-to-pin is ugly, it's 'we win because we have numbers and terrain,' and then without it Raptor's balancing is ugly, er to say it either gets absolutely wrecked OR pins you and absolutely wrecks you and there doesn't seem to be much skill on either side.

[rigid tulip]

I would say its without a doubt the most difficult carnivore to play because every major hunt has extremely high risk

[gloomy edge]

Yes and no, i use foliage much more than trees, and honestly have never yet had problems with trees during combat either. Sure you get stuck running in a straight line, but you learn to avoid

[rigid tulip]

No matter what the scenario is

[cobalt dagger]

That is definitely not my experience, and it's feet are crazy loud.

[rigid tulip]

Even if you’re winning by a longshot. It takes 3 ceras to showup for your pack of 10 to die

After they have no stam from pouncing a target

[cobalt dagger]

Yeah cera vs raptor is real bad for raptor

[rigid tulip]

And that’s understandable

[cobalt dagger]

I do wish that vomit wasn't just a cc on smaller things

[rigid tulip]

Its just that in every single raptor hunt of actual large game like they are intended to hunt you get anywhere from 20 seconds to 3 minutes of gameplay before someone shoves their butt into a cliffside

[gloomy edge]

@cobalt dagger its a stealthy dino, you need to rely on crouch a lot more. Dilo crouch is SUPER low for a reason

[rigid tulip]

Then it’s just luck and cheese

[cobalt dagger]

I watch ceras attempt to ambush and kill raptors, HUNT them. I think the 'goal' would be for cera and raptor to avoid each other, with ceras only showing up to 'body bully' raptors, if talking about ecosystem goals. But ceras outright hunt raptors

[rigid tulip]

And 1-2 people die to glitch

Honestly cera’s hunting raptors is understandable and fine

[cobalt dagger]

I very much disagree about dilo being successful at stealth without it's venom, but to each their own.

It's because I believe even with bushes, it's too big and movement is too visible, and finding players within a forest is awful if they don't move. If they are moving, it's unlikely they are just conviently located by bushes for you.

[rigid tulip]

An extremely good raptor can 1v1 using the wounded mechanic which is based

[cobalt dagger]

Well in my book anything can hunt whatever it wants if it tries but I think the devs have specific ecosystem plans/niches for things, I am pretty sure they want cera to be a scavenger and kleptoparasite, defensive-based and less of a hunter except during notably opportunity.

[rigid tulip]

I would say a raptor is a pretty good size thing for it to hunt

[cobalt dagger]

The issue I see with that- I heard they said would be the 'honeybadger' of the roster but actually honey badgers hunt things like snakes and don't really scavenge dead bodies as much as say, vultures do.

[rigid tulip]

If it gets to catch it off guard thata such an easy meal

[cobalt dagger]

Catching it off guard would be 'notably opportunity'

notable*

[rigid tulip]

Their biteforce gets so low when they’re deeply wounded

[cobalt dagger]

Brb to get food

[gloomy edge]

Then use the edges of the forest, next to fields. Many dinos go in a lil for food, or want to cross from one area to another. Theres no need to hunt in the deep forest, and even then, id stick to trails for a good ambush

[rigid tulip]

As raptor dump your full stam bar in a dmg pounce on them and then trade hits and it dies

[cobalt dagger]

Oh, I do lurk on trails though. OK NOW I will get food.

[rigid tulip]

One of the few interactions left in this game thats extremely fun and rewarding to someone who sinks time into getting good

Love that kinda stuff

[lethal shale]

i miss omniraptor's old idle animation

just without the broken wrists

[gloomy edge]

I love hunting the edge of fields, i enjoy 1 calling and watching bloodthirsty carnos come to the “dinnerbell” before i ambush from the bushes

I suggest to play slower and more attentively, and baiting dinos with calls

[uncut trellis]

@simple shard I think the reason behind why they made Juvi Troos so slow is because they already start so small, and when they were faster they were basically invisible, lighting fast rats that were a nightmare to catch. Trolls had way too much fun with them.
Outside of the Juvi speed nerf, Troos have a ton going for them now, especially with their reduced stam cost in pounces.
I think fixing the Juvi Troo issue you brought up will come down to how they implement insects, rats, and other small ai that Juvis should be hunting anyway instead of scavenging corpses

[steep gazelle]

Troodon juv could run at 100km/h, he has no biteforce and no health to cause damage and hinders literally nothing, practically not even bots xd

[uncut trellis]

It wasn’t a legit threat yea, but it was a trolling machine, it did not need to be that fast for how easily it could hide

[steep gazelle]

I agree that it was fast at 39km, but being as slow as are now running at 14km is not good either

25km It's a good starting speed considering its fragility and low dmg

[uncut trellis]

That’d probably be a fine speed yea, but I still think the real problem is how carnivores start overall

[hasty coyote]

The issue before was that the juvie Troodons would burn stam by holding on. Now that it’s no longer a factor, it can only be an annoyance at best. Like even juvie hypsi spawns faster, can spit, and is even smaller.

The reason it got nerfed according to the devs was that it didn’t make sense since it was so small to move that fast.

[uncut trellis]

I’m ok with Juvi Troo being faster than it is now, but it shouldn’t be as fast as it was

[uncut trellis]

https://tenor.com/view/bye-chat-godzilla-monarch-legacy-of-monsters-ion-dragon-gif-15546467190690723514

[uncut trellis]

Legitimately how I imagine Quetz vs Carno/Cerato will go down

[dusky surge]

nah, solo dryo is absolutely fine

high stealth, insane agility, great stam, it can def do well on its own, its biggest weakness is it has very little depth to its kit

[slim dragon]

Having a group doesn't do much for dryo's survivability
What are they gonna do with a group ? Fight back against omnis ?

[dusky surge]

^

honestly hypsi benefits more from groups because it gives them a nest which ironically acts as really good shelter, not to mention they can spit more because more total food

[simple shard]

I agree. But juvie troodons can be ignored. They do no damage, no bleed. trolling is only thing but normal players wont be trolling. As for the little AI. frogs are disabled also crabs which were already hard to find. So scavanging is the only thing left to get food.

[vital valley]

It's entirely useless before poison though, if anything they should run at 60km/h BEFORE venom so they can actually move. Currently you have to die 5 times in a row to starvation before you get south plains spawn to scavenge

[frosty hinge]

Yo guys where is the Rex ?

[steep gazelle]

Rex? Oh, Rex is coming out soon...

[frosty hinge]

U guys said that 2 months ago lmao

[cobalt dagger]

Oh I was claiming that 2 omnis against a dibble with terrain are more effective at hurting it than 2 dryos with terrain. Otherwise, I agree with you about dryo's upsides.

[dusky surge]

i mean thats hardly a comparison

[cobalt dagger]

I agree, but someone stated that Omni relies the most on external factors to kill and I brought up dryo as an example I thought was more so.

Or even Beipi maybe.

I mean Omni gets to pin things smaller than itself, dryo or beipi fighting something smaller than themselves is more engaging.

[steep gazelle]

@cobalt dagger Dilo doesn't need to have more survivability against something that specializes in killing him

Dilo currently has a high survivability, and can even kill a Carno very easily

[cobalt dagger]

Dilo does have high survivability in the fact that it can outrun everything except carno.

I do agree also that carno specializes in killing Dilo.

A dilo can't easily kill a carno though unless that carno is bad. Unless we talk about numbers situations, in which multiple dilos ganging up on a carno definitely gives dilo a better chance, but that kinda applies to everything.

In a 1 v 1 between equal skill I definitely believe the carno to have an advantage. That's alright, I don't want it to loose that advantage, and I don't think these changes will cause that advantage to be lost.

I'm more looking at the fact that when an omni encounters more than one carno, and when a dilo encounters more than one carno, there is some small chance for the omni and no chance for the dilo.

And I try to move things away from 'no chance' into 'small chance' situations. I believe dilo should have a small chance, not a big chance, but not no chance.

I'm looking at 'chance to escape and live' not chance to kill.

I think everything should have a way to live. Not everything needs a way to kill. Well, except, some things DO need a way to kill since they eat meat, but not all eat meat so not all need a way to kill.

I also think these changes benefit carno more anyway. He should probably already have better trot and stamina in my opinion.

I wanted to pair these changes with the aforementioned dilo nerfs I suggested above about venom.

I guess I should add that in the feedback.

[steep gazelle]

Dilo can practically face tank with carno to put him in the purple stage, then just run to a forest and dodge the charge while spamming clones.

I would agree with your suggestion to give Dilo more survivability against a Carno if Dilo wasn't completely unbalanced how is it now

But I agree with giving Omni more survivability and increasing Carno trot speed.

[obtuse ocean]

Thats cus carno is crap, not cus dilo is any good. Still one of the hardest to play. Same with cera, i just facetank it, dont even care about getting hit by it.

[steep gazelle]

Dilo has an extreme where he is extremely dependent on his venom, as he doesn't even need to get close to his victim to cause damage

Dilo needs his venom to become more interactive with the victim, a reduction in the sound of his footsteps, and perhaps a slight improvement in his turn radius

[obtuse ocean]

Yea, but you still need to get the venom in and let it stay. If you took away the clones, it would need some insane buffs.

Omni and teno can easy avoid it, by just a rock. Maia can just put its but into a rock etc

[vital valley]

#balance-feedback message

What the hell has dilo done to you bruh

Raptors already hard counter dilos, making them outrun it easier is beyond stupid

[cobalt dagger]

Yes, I agree that dilo is currently broken. And I am aware dilo can facetank a carno and then spam clones. But if the carno alt bites the dilo will be VERY low once carno hits purple, and with new agility I seriously doubt the dilo can avoid getting rammed or it's tail chipped to death for the last of it's HP, even in a forest.

[hasty coyote]

imo, just make the clone less oppressive, make dilo not stomp louder than a trike, and potentially give carno venom vulnerability

Now dilo can easily make the carno blind and then run away, doesnt even need to be purple, stage 1-2 can give dilo enough to escape. And dilo has a solid amount of hp to tank a lot of tail hits, so it just needs to break los, get out of the fog range, and carno instantly loses it.

[viscid mica]

[rigid tulip]

I was talking about carnivores. As omni any third party or terrain just completely ruins your hunt. Otherwise it is a pretty stupidly broken thing to fight. Every hunt on omni kinda feels like a cheesefest. Either your side or theirs

unless you 2v1 something then its the most peak combat this game has to offer honestly

[viscid mica]

Based

Me personally thou 1v1 with a troodon as anything under 3T is such a baller experience

Well all except the BJJ king

[rigid tulip]

there is nothing like killing something that can one shot you lol

their 40-50 mistakes vs your zero mistakes

[viscid mica]

[cobalt dagger]

This also sounds perfect

[crystal stream]

Plains hunter carno? or small game hunter carno? Pick one

[hasty coyote]

https://tenor.com/view/the-road-to-el-dorado-both-both-is-good-gif-8304204

[crystal stream]

Plains hunter carno would be cool if they give it a headbutt ability slight size and weight increase but slight reduced turning and a very very VERY slight Stam nerf the headbutt would be like Maias body slam when it’s going fast able to do cc when going fast enough its max should be slightly above its own weight or small game hunter this current one we have

[crystal stream]

Can’t be both because there very different

Forgot plains hubter carno should have a very very VERY slight speed nerf to and acceleration that way it can’t instantly charge from standing completely still like dibble

Because it has two and not four legs

[slim dragon]

It can and it is
Carno is specialized into hunting small game
In plains
It's what makes the most sense, as plains offers no cover for its prey and no way to break line of sight

[dusky surge]

i love the idea that apparently an animal can only have one niche at maximum

[spiral kindle]

@cobalt dagger Carno has the same stam as Dilo , Carno outrun's it aswell since it's faster , They alr buffed carno's stamina in the trike update get you're facts right

[cobalt dagger]

I'm very confident dilo has more stamina than carno and out-staminas carno, in fact last I checked it has slightly more stamina than omni too.

[spiral kindle]

both have a run time of 2 minutes 35 seconds wich is lower than omni

carno used to be 2 mins 15 seconds before the buff

[hasty coyote]

Dilo only out stams carno when carno charges

[spiral kindle]

Stamina wise but not distance wise

[cobalt dagger]

I believe you that carno got bufffed but I haven't noticed a nerf on dilo stamina.

[hasty coyote]

Which is common tbf

[hasty coyote]

Yes, charge is just as stam efficient as sprinting

[cobalt dagger]

But there's no point arguing it because I should just have a friend test it with me

[spiral kindle]

Ppl like me have already done tests months ago

But if u wanna do it then go ahead

[cobalt dagger]

I don't have a lot of friends that play the isle, but I also kinda just check the changelogs to see that. (Ofcourse there's the issue of shadow nerfs and shadow buffs)

[hasty coyote]

Yeah a lot of changes recently have been shadow buffs/nerfs

[spiral kindle]

Isle dev's barely put any changes on the patch notes

[hasty coyote]

Which is really annoying

[cobalt dagger]

Yeah, that's weird. Not sure why that happens

[hasty coyote]

Prob Don wanting people to stop metagaming

Which is gonna happen reguardless

[spiral kindle]

I hate it how they got rid of seeing the % of you're hp all because of that mentality

didn't really change much it's just annoying

like u can still tell what hp u are on roughly but u will never know the exact %

[hasty coyote]

Which was the point. So you can’t just be like “I’m at 67% hp, therefore I can tank 2 more attacks and live at 1% hp.

[crimson crater]

last month or just in general

[hasty coyote]

Ever since don started being the head of balance, the change logs got a lot more vague and leaves out like 1/4th of the balance changes at least.

Especially more recently

[molten helm]

why dilo is faster than omni

[obtuse ocean]

Why not ?

[steep gazelle]

Dilo is faster, Omni is more agile

[crimson crater]

so that it dosen’t die at the sight of a raptor pack

[indigo rain]

@cobalt dagger there is actually a (objectively stronger) herbivore/omnivore exclusive mutation that increases the sound of footsteps by 50% and lets you turn your head more when eating and drinking. Hypervigilance

[cobalt dagger]

Yeah but that's a mutation and therein takes a mutation slot. With no mutations required, carnivores track AND have better night vision on average over herbivores.

Of course, herbivores get to eat grass. But I whether that's a buff or rarely sometimes even a nerf varies per the ai accessibility and migration zone/patrol zone glitchiness.

[indigo rain]

Calls are loud enough i personally dont see the need to buff herbivore hearing further. Its honestly ridiculously easy to detect predators. Vision wise, if it was changed, id imagine that herbivores would get a wider FOV at the cost of their long distance vision blurring at a set distance. Meanwhile carnivores get a smaller (ie the current fov) but clarity at range

That way carnivores would be able to creep closer much like many do irl, before ambushing.

Anything tracking related however is a slippery slope and theres a reason herbivores cant track prints. Between blood spots and hypervigilance however a teno can track a cerato relentlessly

[golden torrent]

why is omnis speed 34 with photo at like 99%

[dusky surge]

because you are a senior

[elfin night]

LOL REALLY?

Do they handicap your speed THAT badly?

I haven’t played this HT yet

[dusky surge]

yea uh

32km/hr dryo

lmao

i messed up the prime elder stuff and watched my lil dryo decay in front of me lmao

[stark knoll]

I hope one day they can find the time to add frail elder models, or maybe just add the starvation shader so I can really feel decrepit

[elfin night]

That is actually wild

[dusky surge]

fr

[elfin night]

What a nerf

And you just get the senior decay for messing up the diet?

[dusky surge]

uh idk

[stark knoll]

For not reaching prime elder

[elfin night]

Yeah so

[dusky surge]

i dont know how to reach prime yet i've never done it

[elfin night]

How do you reach prime elder. No clue?

[dusky surge]

i keep explloring the map rather than focusing on surviving

[elfin night]

I see

[dusky surge]

upside: i found a new structure

downside: my galli has no diets and will likely decay into obscurity

new structure is sick tho

its like a JWE2 enclosure

its HUGE

[golden torrent]

Didn’t they say the elder stuff was like opt in sorta thing

[dusky surge]

no

death is an opt in, everything gets old

[golden torrent]

Bruh so like if I grow my trike and get to 100 my stats are gonna be horrible then and I just gotta regrow it…

[faint timber]

@uncut trellis I said in the past that we should strengthen Carno because Juvi Trex will be very dangerous. I think I really said the truth. If the old Carno was here, Juvi REX would be anti-REX and the Trex lineage would be protected.

[dusky surge]

what

[uncut trellis]

Carno should absolutely be a threat to Juvi Rexes I’ll say that

[dusky surge]

i mean

it is

like it isn't even a "should be" moment, it just is

especially with the charge changes

[uncut trellis]

I know that

[faint timber]

Yes, I said this long ago

[dusky surge]

and carno is a threat to juvi rexes

so whats the problem lol

the issue is that juvi rex can move way too fast lol

[golden torrent]

Bruh they better tweak the elder system

[dusky surge]

yea that's what the horde test is for

[golden torrent]

Guys we all gotta complain abt it 🙏 🙏

[slim dragon]

I think providing constructive criticism works better in general

[golden torrent]

They could add something like an opt in system for it u know or just change how much stats u lost instead of 45%

[slim dragon]

Ew

That's like back when people asked to be able to lock their growth as a 40km/h sub deino forever

[elfin night]

I just saw the stats and that thing is unstoppable

I know that making juvies useless is bad but there should be a middle point between just fodder (which sadly most juveniles in the game are) and making it a powerhouse that obliterated everyone

60kph 900kg rex with a pin

[haughty grotto]

@uncut trellis they wrote on the patch notes that they're aware juvie rex is overtuned

[uncut trellis]

Ah ok, that’s good to hear

[rigid tulip]

imagine you're a raptor pack and you fight something and it backs into a wall and waits for every raptor to become useless old men because their growth time is faster than the large prey 💀

[stark ether]

Poor troodon as well, imagine a trike just out-aging them

[uncut trellis]

@lone badger Rex was broken in legacy cause it was the only Dino that got bone break. Evrima functions way differently than legacy balance wise. Rex is already meant to be an executioner esk Dino. For anything smaller than it, the game plan is literally to just avoid it.

[lone badger]

@uncut trellis ohhh i see, fine, i understand now, just let me ask something, if rex is meant to hunt everything smaller than it, that in paper have sense to me, what do i do if i have something (anything) bigger (if introduced) and suddenly a single rex breaks my legs or body and goes nearby to heal, while i aproach at a crippled speed with that bigger thing...and then decides to return to make more damage and fracture....now add "gastronomic regeneration", "epidermal fibrosis" and "cellular regeneration" to that rex for example, not to mention that pin thingy that it has now...

its a matter of time that happens the same that happened to legacy, servers overpopulated with rexes while a few players run trough the map hopping not to encounter or be ambushed by them

im sorry but in my opinion its not a rex problem, its the fracture mechanic that is the broken one

and by the way, it is still the only dinosaur that has that mechanic with a different name and works exactly the same

and the only effective thing that you had to kill a rex "safely" (not counting the horrible hitbox issues) in legacy was the dilophosaurus because you were smaller than it and more agile but mainly because the dilo had the bleed damage that bled it out....for the rest of the rooster you did the same mechanic with the rex, you bite, you break, you heal a bit, you kill

[uncut trellis]

I honestly am not sure and it probably depends on the species

• Stego is easily the most vulnerable, it has the dmg output to kill a rex, but Rexes head slams seem to be enough to knock it over, and it’s even pinnable, and ofc gets fractured like you’ve described. If it were up to me I’d make it so Rex can’t pin a Stego if said Stego is in its power swing stance
• Spino and Cheirus will probably be more than capable of brawling a Rex, as long as they face it and time slashes correctly, they’ll be fine
• Trike has an armored head and can keep Rex at bay as long as it faces it and charges it when it approaches. Rex won’t be fracturing its face
• Anky can fracture the Rex back, and I doubt Rex will be able to fracture Anky if it attempts to bite its armor
• Shant is tanky as heck, and can flatten a Rex if it chooses. On top of that, it’s faster.
• Cama is implied to have armored legs, honestly wouldn’t be surprised if it’s too difficult for Rex to fracture

Those are just my predictions, but I agree landing a fracture on another apex shouldn’t be nearly as easy as it would on a mid tier and such

[uncut trellis]

Pachy has fracture my dude, Anky will have fracture, Homa will too, Shant is implied to, I doubt Cama won’t fracture, Cheirus should fracture imo, and rhino (unconfirmed) could also be a great bone breaker

[lone badger]

fine, i really hope that the thing you are predicting/suggesting in that list, that looks good (players will have to test), is being included in future patches and releases, but the thing now is that the only thing that is released and being played and tested is the fracturing rex, the rest....predictions, perhaps is a lack of trsut in devs or perhaps is the ghost of leacy rex haunting me i dont know, but i really really hope that the experience dont get ruined for everyone just for that mechanic

and the pachy has fracture but its not a rex and its killable by most of the rooster even having that

[uncut trellis]

Again, rex is meant to be a grim reaper. If you’re caught it’s gonna fracture you, and probably commit the scenario you’ve described. This is intended and I’m personally fine with it. However, I don’t want pin to be available for Juvis, and honestly neither for subadults. This should be an adult exclusive move, and players should have to earn that by reaching adult first, until then, they’re just generic theropods with generally high dmg outputs, but sucky stam and agility

[stark ether]

So long as they keep Rex weaker than things its own weight while it’s growing, it should be fine as adult considering that it’s optional to fight as anything faster unless you get ambushed

[lone badger]

i respect your point of view, i personally dont agree and i said what i had to say and only hope the game doesnt turn boring, time will tell

[uncut trellis]

There are worse issues than the games balance imho

[faint timber]

An adult rex should never be able to hold an adult stego. This is ridiculous. I'm growing 1 stego and I'm still alive. I haven't fought a rex yet, but if a rex can hold me, then it's unfair. By the way, if it can't hold me, I'll probably win.

My only problem with Rex is that it is a pin opp and Juvi Rex speed, other than that I don't have any problems right now.

[obtuse ocean]

You have the option to run away from it right ?

[faint timber]

Run away? Rex, I don't think so. I will fight to the death.

As long as there are not two people, there is no problem.

[obtuse ocean]

Then you should die, rex should kill a stego. if you have the option to get away.

[faint timber]

I'm still small but I can fight Rex that is my size or a little smaller than me

[cosmic pelican]

Stegos speed got buffed to 30kmh in the HT, but adult rexs ambush speed is nearly as fast as a dibble

[obtuse ocean]

yea, but thats ambush. Thats fine, still need to get close enough

[faint timber]

NAH I'D WIN

[obtuse ocean]

Now a rex with low stam behind a stego, thats bad for rex lol

[cosmic pelican]

Rex can also trot down stego so yeah

[faint timber]

If I become an adult, there will be no problem (of course, if there are no 2 Rex, then there will be a problem)

[obtuse ocean]

I think you gonna have a bad day

[faint timber]

Maybe I'll win

[vale brook]

teehee wrong chat

[obtuse ocean]

Yea, maybe let us know : P

[faint timber]

I will send you a photo

[dusky surge]

as an adult?

[cosmic pelican]

Yes

[dusky surge]

huh, neat

however, ambush is still a garbage idea for rex or in general lmao

[elfin night]

WAIT

Rex has fractures??

[cosmic pelican]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1344002521462738954/1410650091030708347/The_Isle_-_2025-08-28_17-38-52.mp4?ex=68b27286&is=68b12106&hm=cbb3aa5277e9a94d933291edd0bceba5ef4a3d6bb5c42170f95c3412d53283c8&
Yes

U can see the other rex I crushed got a leg fracture, and probably a body fracture after the 2nd crush

[elfin night]

https://tenor.com/view/trash-horrible-sasuke-uchiha-sasuke-naruto-gif-8895118679818111727

Why, why did they have to do this to my most hyped apex

Wasn’t enough with heavy cc, alt attack cc, a pin and a throw

Also fractures 😭 😭

[cosmic pelican]

Also fun fact, sub rex currently peaks at 60km/h, while being 800kg and being able to pin anything smaller and doing fractures to them lmaoo

[elfin night]

At least they buffed stego so it isn’t just Rex fodder but come on bro, what’s that powercreep.

If Rex has all of that and trike a 6k damage move, what are Spino and the rest going to have

[elfin night]

I saw that lol

[elfin night]

I can’t be the only one thinking the apex inflation might be an actual legitimate phenomenon

Now imagine strains being as much of an spike to apexes as they themselves are to everything else

I support asymmetric balance but come on

Rex just seems to have everything in its favor

[obtuse ocean]

No, it has crap stam crap agility crap speed. Its big it makes alot of sounds, and it needs more food.

[elfin night]

Good to see they kept the bad stam and agility to force ambushes

Although I wouldn’t say its speed is bad AT ALL lol

Not only juvenile and subadult

But also the adult one running as fast as a dibble

[uncut trellis]

Do you honestly think a stego can outrun a rex???

[obtuse ocean]

Yea i hope, depends on how close the rex is. Within ambush range, ofcourse not. But rex running after a stego and getting low or zero stam is gonna be bad day for rex tho

[uncut trellis]

As it currently stands that’s not the case, even Rexes base run speed is faster than stego

And don’t even think about outrunning ambush

[obtuse ocean]

Yea, but can it keep up? Stam wise

[uncut trellis]

No, but it doesn’t need to cause its trot speed is also faster

Rex can keep up with stego

[obtuse ocean]

Need to see, not sure how much longer a stego can run after rex has zero stam. Rex also need stam to take it down

[uncut trellis]

Honestly stego should just be capable of fighting Rex in a 1v1

[uncut trellis]

That’s true, but a smart Rex won’t just run after a stego once it sees it, it can just trot over, using no stam, and wait for an opening to pin it, probably can even afford to tank a power swing

[obtuse ocean]

Yea depends, but i hope rex crush a stego given the chance. But i do not want rex to just trot it down tho

[uncut trellis]

If it were up to me, Rex shouldn’t be able to land crush on a stego if said stego is in its power swing stance

Stegos power swing should also stun Rex on headshots

[obtuse ocean]

Yea, will need to see. If rex can easy trot it down, stego needs something. But again, a smart stego seeing a rex using all his stam trying to catch it. Should be a dead rex

rex is on par with trike, not stego

[dusky surge]

on headshots?

no, in general

[uncut trellis]

I’m sure that’ll be the case, but I recall dondi saying the Dino’s are balanced around what they can do, not around actual player behavior

[uncut trellis]

Wouldn’t be opposed, but I think the stun resistance in power swing stance is more important than this

[obtuse ocean]

Yea and he said, fights are not fair. Some will destroy given the chance, alot of people want fair fights so they can just 2v1 with ease

[uncut trellis]

I know that, but every species should still be capable of surviving, and one species shouldn’t be so heavily oppressed by another

Like if the matchup is undoable for one, ideally it should be able to run away, but stego can’t run away sooo

[faint timber]

There is no need to escape the stego. If Trex can't hold the adult stego, there is a possibility of gaining the stego and I think Rex can hold it.

[obtuse ocean]

Yea sorta true, but i think no matter what you play. It will be playables you want nothing to do with. Meaning you need to make sure of your surroundings. Like a bad stego player going in dense area where it can easy get ambushed is prob a bad move

[uncut trellis]

We’re talking about how stego should handle Rex

[obtuse ocean]

I think they mention that in last dev blog, dangers will always be lurking no matter what you play

[uncut trellis]

Sure, but I wouldn’t want a playable where I know just getting spotted by a certain dino likely means game over. Like say Dryo, it’s fast but it’s not faster than carno, sure it can’t take on the carno but it at least has a shot at escaping, so it’s not a game over on sight issue. Stego doesn’t have this

[uncut trellis]

Ofc, I doubt a fresh adult stego would be capable of handling an elder rex, even with the changes I proposed. And there’s always spino (stego should be faster than that though)

[obtuse ocean]

No, we agree there. If rex can with ease trot a stego down, it will def need to be able to defend itself. But i hope rex takes a stego down given the chance, you want stuff to hunt others. I hope rex hunts acros without any fear if given the chance. Now rex can be much worse off against a pack of dilos then a acro etc.

[uncut trellis]

It would almost certainly be matchup dependent yea, stego should still be killable by Rex and vis versa, but sometimes that might just mean hunting in groups.
Honestly if acros can take out camas, I can’t imagine them not taking down Rexes, though that all depends on how it’s choke attack works

[obtuse ocean]

Yea hunting in groups is an advantage normally, but rexes shouldt fear much. Not stegos, but i hope trikes beat rexes if its a head on fight with ease tho.

[uncut trellis]

I don’t think Rexes should fear stegos, but they should be hesitant to take one on

[obtuse ocean]

Yea, but acros are prob much more effective in hit and run , bleed etc. Slower fights, and taking bigger stuff down. I hope rex hunts every spino giga and acro it can if given the chance. So they dont constantly just avoid each other

[faint timber]

What kind of balancing is this? What a ridiculous balancing act! I am stronger than all of them!

[faint timber]

I know they are all stupid but how can they make me fall when they hold me? How ridiculous is this? I am heavier than all of them.

Don't you ever test this animal? I slaughtered the biggest of the men, then a little one came and held me and I couldn't do anything. Is this balance?

[obtuse ocean]

off, 3 rexes have they made them that easy to survive food vice

[faint timber]

I am 5 tons. Why can little ones hold 5 tons?

[obtuse ocean]

True, it shouldt be a cakewalk. And if your in open terrain and see a rex coming at you, and run over to an area where you have terrain advantages it can also change.

[faint timber]

Are you kidding me? They can't knock me down with just one bite. This is ridiculous. He's not an elder or an adult. How can a brat rex knock me down? I killed the biggest of them in three hits. The others were low. One velt came and knocked me down. This is ridiculous.

[obtuse ocean]

I mean i love solo playing, and hope they make it good. But darn, 4 rexes i woulda turn the other way lol

[faint timber]

I was much bigger than them and when they first attacked I taught them a lesson and then I counterattacked. And you know what happened, a devil much smaller than me caught me.

My question to you is, if a stego can hold even a small rex, why would I want to grow a stego? It's a waste of time.

[obtuse ocean]

Yea i dont think thats fair either, if it pinned you

[faint timber]

They already played very badly, I was winning low diff until they fixed it.

At least let them headbutt me. Look, if they had killed me with a headbutt, it would have been okay, but killing me with a pin is ridiculous.

[obtuse ocean]

But that rex you see the head off, his big ?

[faint timber]

black ?

[obtuse ocean]

The one you barely see at the bottom

just the head

[faint timber]

Since you're talking about the third Rex, he's also smaller than me, that's a mistake, he's too low.(eril)

[uncut trellis]

A spino should be capable of holding its own imo, Giga should have a harder time

[obtuse ocean]

Maybe, even tho i think rex will have a very clear advantage over it on land. Since spino will have the water advantage, it cant have all : P

[uncut trellis]

Tbh the only advantage spino would have in the water is speed and agility, Rexes bite force won’t change. Well I guess Rex still wouldn’t be able to land a crush either

[obtuse ocean]

Yea but spino dmg will change it water, atlest they hinted to that

[uncut trellis]

It’d probably like a reduction in ticks or something if I’m to expect anything. But higher dmg output would make sense

[obtuse ocean]

Yea, i just they mention it about bary can dish out high dmg in water and spino will have something similar. So i can be wrong

[grim moss]

Ye I play Stego I understand

They buffed trike that can one shot Stego to match rex in power

That means rex will be as strong as trike

And so it's ggs for stegos if rex see em

They weren't included in balancing

[faint timber]

Fix this, my dinosaur will have died in vain

[maiden temple]

#balance-feedback message
That does sound underwhelming, what about other stats (or just other elders outcomes)?

[haughty grotto]

@rigid tulip i agree with most things except the overpowered one
its actually pretty fairly powered, except i think its way too fast in the late juvie stage
the balance is in the growth time
it takes wayyyy longer for rex to reach 450kg than for raptor to fully grow to 450kg
same with teno - teno will become an adult much faster than rex takes to get to 1600kg
so its fair for them to be evenly matched at the same size range because the rex put in much more time and effort to reach it

[rigid tulip]

I still dont like a baby pinning and crushing things

But the growth time is a fair point.

[obtuse ocean]

So babys/juvis etc shouldt be able to use its strengths? Omnis cant pin, herreras cant jump and deinos cant grab? Even tho its still fair value compared to when they are grown

[vale brook]

i think to a degree they need to be lessened in terms of impact

the juvies can have it, sure. they need to practice with it on AI

however, i dont think a fresh spawn juvenile rex should really be giving me much trouble via fractures or a "crush"

id really prefer if Juvie Rex's "crush" was more of a mauling action

[obtuse ocean]

Not sure if i agree,your taking the strenght from playables. If you spawn in as a deino the same time i spawn in as a herrera i dont think its unfair if you can grab me

Im not sure about juvi rex speed,but i would guess a omni or teno would be able to run away from it if they spawn in at same time?

[rigid tulip]

With an omni there are very very few targets a juvenile can pin however an absolute infant rex can seriously pin major players in the roster

But i agree i dont like omni’s pin feature at all whatsoever but it will stay in the game because pins are a concept that will stay

Cc seems to be the main thing in combat going forward

[crystal stream]

https://youtube.com/shorts/2xX6q_D6ETY?si=gA7-yhAsnvTjDnt7 thoughts? Don’t ask why I was on yt shorts idk either

[keen plover]

why would charge be the example they used 😭

old carno movement 💔

[crystal stream]

Well it is kinda its main ability that made incredibly fun so

[dusky surge]

Carno now: Chargespam (bad)
Carno then: Chargespam (good)

lmao what point is being made

[crystal stream]

Charge now sucks

[dusky surge]

Have you tried HT carno

[crystal stream]

Old charge was better that’s the point

[dusky surge]

New charge is really good

[crystal stream]

What a dmg buff

[dusky surge]

No

[crystal stream]

What is it

Ok…

Still probably no where near what it should be if anything might be more buggy and annoying to fight and watch

[dusky surge]

It can now knockdown extremely effectively and can headswing from a standing position

It also no longer autohits

[thorn mountain]

I love how people 1: complain about carno and desync then the devs give carno no more desync issues no players say its bad?

You as a carno can literally stun or knockdown something without even needing to charge up

but thats a nerf I guess

you cannot please this community I swear

[lament geyser]

i love everything about evrima and i know the devs are working on making it better thats why i dont judge. i just cant play evrima that much as it requires a somewhat powerful pc.

[thorn mountain]

what pc do you have?

[lament geyser]

i have a gaming laptop victus RYZEN 5000series GEFORCE RTX

[lament geyser]

forgot to reply

[thorn mountain]

i saw what you said

you should be able to run it

[lament geyser]

i can its just when i put in thr settings i should for the pc its meh

[crystal stream]

Wait what

Hold up they may have cooked a lil

[maiden temple]

Runs fine on my 3060 laptop lol, just needs some help from DLSS obviously

Istg this machine overperforms everyday

#balance-feedback message|
I like most of these, having an incentive to nest would be great for everyone. Growing in a big group of babies is more fun

[haughty grotto]

@candid herald Im not sure what you mean. I think it's just you.
Too many pin attacks? Literally just omni, rex and upcoming allo but I won't count that cause it's not here yet. 2 pin attacks are "out of control?" Most dinos are bigger than Omni and require a lot of coordination with a grapple, arguably the most difficult ability to successfully perform in the game. And rex's thing isnt even a proper pin, it's more of an execute button for smaller targets at the cost of almost it's entire stamina bar.

There's already way more rams/tackles/knockdowns in the game. Carno, teno, dibble, trike and rex itself has a headbutt knockdown too which is very useful and underused at the moment because people don't know how to use it properly and they rush to use their crush when they dont have to be wasting their stamina.

So no, I disagree with you, I think there's a good balance of each type of offensive ability in the game.

[rigid tulip]

#balance-feedback message

Im telling everyone we are getting severe cc creep in this games combat and it will eventually lose a massive amount of its skill expression

https://youtube.com/shorts/LaqaSK3X5WI?si=O-FJe0uGvPcmJJZn look how many more opportunities for individual player errors and successes to make impacts in this fight when you remove most of the cc

Significantly more fun. You feel like you actually deserve the win.

[faint quail]

i seriously agree with this.

as it stands, theres no downsides to missing attacks (alt attacks are a big issue). sure, youre animation locked as it happens, but thats not a deterrent.

if i have an ability that deals high damage or cc's, or has an added effect, there should be downsides to using it to deter from spamming - see teno slam / kick, cerato charge bite, dilo clones, utah pounce / pin, carno charge, etc...

if i miss one of these attacks, there should be an opening for my opponent to attack me for being bad. this would incentivize opportunity for skillful recourse in combat. the amount of absolute cc being added through pins, which you have no counter for, is boring and feels bad on both sides.

im not sure the direction this game is taking, but its not the game i remember having hours of fun on.

[faint quail]

yes. babies dont have the strength, skill, or experience to properly make use of their adult counterparts skills.

its dishonest to compare a baby rex pinning an adult of similar size to a baby herra being able to jump. a more fair comparison would be closer to a baby herra trying to leap from a tree and land on something to hurt it. the baby herra wouldnt have the coordination or weight to properly land on and hurt something, just as a baby rex wouldnt have the strength or experience to pin an adult species.

does that make more sense ?

[runic depot]

also its not like abilities being taken away with growth is a new thing, megalanias concept art shows it losing the ability to climb as it ages

[crimson crater]

#balance-feedback message sounds like power creep, and pachy’s base weight got increased so it isn’t just an elder thing.

[obtuse ocean]

Nope, cus your saying they cant? You can grab,pin,stun,jump, stun as juvi if its fair value. Meaning all these playables are usinh their strenghts that they will as adult. Does it make sense now?

[faint quail]

i dont know what youre trying to say with "fair value".

does a baby human have the same capacity to perform fine motor control as an adult ? does it have the same capacity to form coherent mental thoughts ? does it have the same capacity to utilize its full endurance ?

does any baby animal have the same capability as an adult counterpart ? not to my knowledge.

[maiden temple]

Fair value would be equivalent of what it can handle as a baby. It can't pin an adult, but can pin another juvi if the weight difference checks out.

Baby dinos should be able to use their kit, because survival and fights don't start at adult stage

I have far more fights as a tiny teno than I do when grown for example. Losing my stunning tail would affect if I can survive an encounter against something around my size

Taking away important cc/abilities from smalls encourages bush growing more than anything else

[faint quail]

i can agree that a baby rex should be able to pin other babies, as it does still need to eat.

however, that doesnt change my opinion over a baby pinning an adult. adult animals also need to eat, and some of the are small and rely on eating babies. they shouldnt get screwed just because of a weight difference.

[maiden temple]

Pins and grabs should be a stam check imo, if you catch someone who was full stam it should give you trouble, if they were low it's a meal

It rewards playing smart

We were supposed to have wiggle for deino grabs and stuff, idk if it was abandoned or just never meant to be xD

Raptor vs raptor was also criticised for being way too one sided

[faint quail]

i fundamentally disagree with anything having pins tbh, as it discourages skill based combat. omni can be an exception bc it makes the most sense on them, although i still dislike it.

making it a stam check is still not skill based, although an argument can be made to playing smart. game knowledge and being cautious should be rewarded, but so should being good at the game. pins dont reward being good, it actively rewards being bad.

bit of a different conversation on that one tho

[maiden temple]

It rewards choosing your targets well, learning what you can pin and when is still something you'll have to do as you explore. Pins would be fine if you can wiggle out if you have enough stam or fight back while wiggling

[faint quail]

which currently you cant get out of being pinned

[maiden temple]

Since it's not a fighting simulator mechanics that simply end your life should exist, but it's unreasonable if the matchup is pretty equal when it comes to stats

Like raptor vs raptor in this case

When something can end you this quickly when you're small the skill lies in avoiding that fight imo, and for them it's finding you

[faint quail]

what type of game it is could be argued on, but i know its dondis game and his vision. whether its good or not.

[maiden temple]

I see it as a hardcore survival first, then everything else I can think of on top of it. Makes it easier to accept some mechanics this way I guess lol

That said I dislike both apexes for being giant stat walls

I wish allo was the next addition to somewhat counter stego, but nahhh

[faint quail]

ive always known it to be a dinosaur survival fighter. i played a lot in legacy, and remember being able to outskill people using the dinos base mechanics. it wasnt perfect, and i agree that we can and should expand from that. but i feel it takes away from being able to utilize your dinos skillset when you can be one shot without consequence.

[maiden temple]

Honestly seeing legacy and skill in once sentence doesn't sit right with me. There was no skill needed to tailride or look directly up to hit people you shouldn't have

I find evrima far better for matchups

Despite mechanics that feel unfair at times

Also, kiting is far more superior now. I can kite well enough on raptor to punch up without needing to cheese it

[obtuse ocean]

Yes lala the teno said it very well what i meant with fair value. So juvis fighthing juvis would still be using their strenghts. And its a survival game, you can die and its nothing you could do in a fight. The mistake was already done before it happend etc

I mean you can fight a trike as cera, but saying trike is op cus you facetanked it. Wouldt be fair

[maiden temple]

The other dino game has matchups where even the tiniest of playables can reliably challenge apexes even 1v1, and it doesn't feel good at all

[faint quail]

there were ways to avoid being tail ridden, much of the same tactics are still employed in evrima. as for looking up to hit people, i never knew of that. i did say it wasnt perfect.

i think evrima has done a lot of things right in terms of matchups, and it very well could be the limited roster we have that makes the game feel the way it does. a lot of the fights i have feel fair and balanced, whether i win or lose. but there is encounters between different dinos that still could use balancing.

[maiden temple]

Yeah sometimes all you can do is die, especially if ambushed at just the right time

[obtuse ocean]

Agreed, played alot of legacy aswell. Legacy was good for its time👍

[maiden temple]

Most of my deaths - apart from cheaters ofc - feel justified enough. Can't speak about trike nor rex, but anything besides these feels good to fight with/against

[obtuse ocean]

Yea,pot. You litterly won every fight cus of numbers and no fear of dying lol

[maiden temple]

Stinky cera getting too much love is a thorn in my side, but at least I can avoid these

[maiden temple]

Yeah the lack of real penalty for dying makes the fights very low quality most of the time

[faint quail]

see, this is a time where i would say thats reasonable. sometimes youre in the wrong place at the wrong time and cant react fast enough.

but something like getting pinned mid fight because the omnis finally hit all their pounces doesnt feel reasonable to me.

it doesnt feel good either, whether you are the omni or are getting omni'd. id much rather the pounce be more akin to a higher bleed application attack, where you still have to run in and bite to deal higher damage.

its boring to sit on the side of something and wait for your stam to go down

[faint quail]

you shouldnt have to avoid them, depending on what you are ofc.

i tried fighting a lone not even grown cera with a dilo group the other day. it went a little bit like this:

bait attack, run in and bite, get tail bit and throw up, repeat.

that was frustrating, not fun, and didnt make sense.

[maiden temple]

They're a bit too easy to play atm

I've had my share complaining about pin needing a counter like I mentioned before, I want it in game because it's satisfying to use but it can have some counterplay without making it unfair to the person pinning

[faint quail]

i will say this in favor of pin

the only thing i love pinning is a herra trying to climb a tree LOL

[maiden temple]

yesss

I like ambushing gallis, a food I could not otherwise get myself

and baby stegos that 1 call too much, but I think they just want to be eaten

[faint quail]

im sure there are ways to make pin feel better for the one being pinned, but i know that not everyone will be happy with whatever ends up happening

[maiden temple]

We'll see what happens

[round schooner]

i feel like pin is bein added to the wrong things. i.e. rex. like maybe that shouldn't have a pin but rather just a big charge bite for a break/fracture cause it's already strong enough without it. just my personal opinion though

[rigid tulip]

Wait for allo

Its just going to be what current growing rex is except thats the creatures design

Fast, larger than all the mid tiers, with a 100 to 0 pin

Assuming nothing about its concept is changed before it gets released

Which hopefully it is. I was looking forward to a jack of all trades predator or a pack hunter that would take out shants or trikes and stegos. Or an ambusher with a devastating axe jaw attack

[thorn mountain]

@eternal vortex late ping but to see other stuff play no ai servers. The abundance is AI makes rex easy to grow and you also see less trikes

[stark knoll]

@steady flax The times in each stage are super fast right now since the devs need to test entombment

[steady flax]

Im talking about once it’s fully released. People will have to grow up to 8 hours to reach full adult. The devs know this and still chose to nerf us no matter what we do lol

Did u dislike it just cuz I talked about what the growth time will be like on the public branch?😂

[stark knoll]

No, I think that everyone eventually becoming weaker than a normal adult is fundamentally good for the system. I just think a lot of the frail elder stats need fine tuning, especially the speeds

[steady flax]

How? As a “normal adult” you get to keep your good stats for 30-60 minutes. How is that good for the system? It would be different if the time frame before getting nerfed was hours longer. But it’s so short, it can take freaking 30 minutes just to find food. It’s a ridiculously short amount of time

[dusky surge]

they literally already answered this like, 3 messages ago

[steady flax]

? Tag it

[stark knoll]

#balance-feedback-discussion message

[steady flax]

Excuse me😂

That answers nothing lmao

You’re telling me the time frame before getting nerfed is also sped up?

[stark knoll]

"The times in each stage are super fast for testing"
"That doesn't address my complaint about each growth stage being too short"
?

[steady flax]

I never said the growing stage is too short

The time frame AFTER you get to elder and getting nerfed is too short

[stark knoll]

Adult, prime elder, and frail elder are growth stages

At least, I consider them to be

[steady flax]

Ah, I did not

If they increased the time frame on how fast u get nerfed then that’s different. The way dondi said it made me think he only increased the growth stage until you’re 100% grown.

[livid spindle]

Speed is too important for creatures. Changing the speed at will will upset many balances. The speed of aged cera will be reduced to 30, which will make it even caught up by creatures as big as rex, and its strength is weaker than normal cera. Although it doesn't directly kill you, it is almost like this. This is the reward that a player gets after playing for 2 hours.

This is quite contrary to the theory of a game. Players are forced to participate in such a cycle. To experience growth repeatedly, I think you can encourage players to choose another way to play and get rewards, instead of this way, players will soon feel depressed. If this changes, the gap will become very large. Elders should not increase their speed when they become bigger, which makes the game dominated by elders. Ordinary creatures can neither defeat them nor escape them. Later, the elders will grow old again. This is equivalent to telling players that when you reach the peak, go to fight.

Then when you get old, you will die soon.

Some players may not have time to grow up again and again. Before, an adult dinosaur could let him play for several days.

[terse yarrow]

Hello, I want to report a serious issue I’ve been experiencing in Evrima. On the official E4 110-player server, I encountered a small dinosaur that was able to one-shot me instantly. This has happened to me more than once with the same type of dinosaur, which makes me believe there is a widespread one-shot cheat being used. If these kinds of hacks are not addressed and prevented soon, I will unfortunately have to stop playing and uninstall the game until it feels fair and enjoyable again. Please take action against this problem as it is ruining the gameplay experience for many of us.

[rigid tulip]

There’s not really a risk and reward system anymore. Because rewards are completely temporary. Think tarkov except each run you have to start out with only a pistol, no permanent player progression. There is no point to actually play the game besides fighting still. Gameplay loop wasn’t successfully added

If we got to keep our mutations then we would have an objective to work towards besides survival and getting kills however that isn’t the case

Each previous run you do is inconsequential. No matter how perfectly you play or how many times you entomb you will be punished

Entombment was thought of by the community as a goal to work towards besides surviving and yes it is however this reward for the goal is temporary and not only is it temporary it forces you to lose things no matter if you achieve it or not

Yeah its a cool concept for an animal simulator i suppose however this game is quite big and quite popular and takes a lot of investment of time. If you take away hard earned progress at a flat and indiscriminate level then you will make a vast majority of players feel robbed and feel as if their decisions are pointless

[livid spindle]

think old age can be slower, less aggressive and bigger (but it is enough to reduce the speed by about 10%, if it is reduced too much to make it look like another species). It should be another way of playing instead of a complete punishment. Elders can be stronger on this basis (but not faster, speed is a key thing in this game, so don't change it at will). If possible, I hope the elders system can be more changeable. The more tasks you have done when you are young, the more rewards you will provide. It's like the rex divided into 9.3T and 12.4T now. If it is dynamic, it can also be: 9.6T, 10T, 10.7T and 11.5T. Those are elders who have completed certain tasks but have not become complete.

Aging and elders changed the speed at will. Let a 12-ton animal run to 35KM/H, while a 1-ton animal only has a speed of 30 km/h. This is crazy.

[dusky surge]

@steep gazelle honestly i still think 50 is too fast

i'd prefer like, around 45

[steep gazelle]

I think this would be a rather slow speed for him, and would drastically decrease his survivability. Something around 47-50km seems to be ideal.

Of course, this is assuming that he won't cause as much damage and have as much offensive capacity as he has now in ht

But, if they are going to maintain all that damage capacity (pin/grapple and fracture) 45km would be a good speed.

[thorn mountain]

@floral wyvern you will have your playable for probs 5-7 hours before even starting elder, also prime elder will be alot longer too probably. So when its actually released you will feel like you have had a full lifecycle instead of just grow till elder then die.

so like growing old and weak imo wouldnt be such a bad thing as it is rn

[obtuse ocean]

Or just dont engage in the system ? You can just choose when you wanne engage in the process or system whatever you wanne call it

[thorn mountain]

huh?

[obtuse ocean]

You think elder will be as now ? Like you need to be elder

[thorn mountain]

it should be

[vale brook]

yes, elder is not a choice

dying of old age, entombing and prime elder is the choice

not elder itself

[knotty temple]

@faint robin @stark ether @steep gazelle any reason why you would vote no to nerfing the CC duration of herbis , as the knockdown clearly lasts FAR too long. Do you just prefer the herbis to be dominant?

[steep gazelle]

I don't disagree with your suggestion, I just don't agree that this should only be for herbs

Rex has already arrived and has proven to have more "problems" such as the herb knockdown, such as Pin/Grapple, Knockdown and fracture

[indigo rain]

Carno has spam knockdown, bleed, and drift. Good luck if one finds you

[knotty temple]

I actually agree with this, i just didn't have perspective from other dinos. i think ALL CC's should be shortened. as an omni main i think you should be able to shake off our pin as well

[golden coral]

Isn't part of the point of a knockdown and similar to allow for a kill confirm? If you shorten the times, you might not be able to get off enough damage to get the kill.

[slim dragon]

It isn't possible to entirely remove knockdowns, as that wouldn't make sense

An omni getting tailslammed by a teno cannot possibly remain standing

[knotty temple]

No, it should not be a free kill. Or if it is that way, then you should only be able to knockdown maybe once or twice during a fight

[golden coral]

Why? It's not as if you can't, at least in most cases, avoid being hit and thus being knocked down in the first place. If you do get hit, you should be punished.

[knotty temple]

you can spam it and the hit box is broken so you can knock people down without hitting them. You should not be rewarded for that . It’s incredibly difficult to kill herbis that can knock down and the margin for error as a carni is incredibly small. You as an herbi can mess up in a fight over and over again then get rewarded with a knockdown and free kill.

[golden coral]

If it's an issue with hitboxes, or performance, or anything else like that then it's a separate issue and the knockdown and it's times are themselves fine. And the whole "messing up" isn't entirely accurate, because the herbis most of the time can't avoid or otherwise catch up, compared to most of the carnis. So of course they can "mess up" more, whereas the carnis have the ability to avoid messing up entirely, so they suffer more when they do mess up. It makes sense.

[knotty temple]

Still completely unbalanced. If I’m fighting you and you’re defending , the fight can last 30 minutes and as the attacker , I cannot mess up one time?

[hasty coyote]

I can agree that we could use an overall reduction in cc, but it does make sense for a lot of dino's kits. Pachy relies on its high cc, teno's cc is fine. So I think those 2 should stay the same. Carno prob shouldnt have much cc against larger targets, but def should have it against smaller ones. Diablo and trike's running attack could def have a lower threshold or at the very least a stam cost. Preferably, make diablo more cc heavy while trike focuses more on raw damage, with its knockdowns being punishment for getting hit by a heavy attack or losing a spar. Cera's vomit causing a stun thats duration doesnt make sense per species is really annoying (aka some species get stunned for 4 seconds and others for like 0.5 seconds and it has no ties to their size or speed). Pins should have some form of break out for similar weight species (or just higher requirements to pin), but omni's group grapple is fine. And they def need to try and turn down the amount of cc in future dinos, if everything has stuns, no one plays the game.

[golden coral]

If I'm the one that has no choice in taking the fight, it makes sense that I hold the advantage. And I don't really see an issue with long fights, though it depends on what is up against what. And you can mess up, just not as much, or against the same kind of attacks. I think it's fine that some attacks will be a kill if you get hit by them, after all, we do have oneshots for larger playbles vs smaller ones already on normal attacks. A knockdown + follow up is just the same, but you do have the potential to get out of that one at least.

[knotty temple]

Actually agree to every single one of these points.

[knotty temple]

I think you should play carnivore for a bit and get some perspective. Go play Omni for a week straight then tell me your perspective

[golden coral]

Maybe you should try it the other way around too then? And I have played omni, way back when my potato laptop could still play, and it was one of the most mindlessly easy playables in the game. Even at the point in Gateways history where they tried out the limited pounce angles (only sides, not front or back) it was perfectly fine to play as.

[hasty coyote]

omni does kinda suffer from cc a lot more, but thats because its a glass cannon. Its meant to be taken down by a single combo from a larger dino, because its damage and speed are really good for its size. If you want to play more safe and not deal with dying to a single combo, fight things in your tier. Pachies are prob the exception but thats mainly due to fractures being op.

[golden coral]

Unless omni is slower and less agile these days, it shouldn't be difficult to avoid getting hit by anything larger and slower at least. I could see struggling vs a carno, maybe even a dilo since it's perhaps surprisingly fast, and troodon, also being agile and hard to see things. But teno and + size, shouldn't really be that much of an issue to avoid.

[hasty coyote]

that is pretty much the point. You lack the hp to tank a hit, but you have the agility and speed to avoid getting hit in the first place. Which is why it does need to get punished hard when it does make a mistake.

or again, you can just avoid the larger 1-combo dinos and just pin to win against anything 1kg lighter, while also being faster and just as, if not more, agile.

[maiden temple]

Both teno tail slam and pachy hits are avoidable pretty easily on raptor, pachy rewards you with a free bite after it misses as well. It takes practise - especially learning how to bait them out and their limitations + stam use. You'll need persistence

I don't think landing a tail slam on a raptor should only stagger it, given the size difference but it doesn't have to last as long.
It could have an adjusted stamina cost but the only reason all herbis can spam their abilities rn is because tactile is a thing (although it can't be relied on against a raptor as much, except when you get an occasional headshot in)

Also forcing an artificial cooldown on abilities is the worst thing in existence, unless I can visibly see the cooldown count down (-10 to immersion). I time my attacks, not rng them

[indigo rain]

Herbivore knockdowns being as long as they are is honestly going to end up being a requirement because carnivores can now increase their damage drastically with mutations while herbivores cannot on top of increasing the efficacy of gastro and making their stomachs larger to eat past being full.

[knotty temple]

true. I suppose i didn't take into consideration that i play on petits pieds server and almost all of the carnivore mutations that buff damage are nerfed to the point where it only gives you 2 or 3 more extra damage. So from my perspective omni is not a glass cannon, more so just.....a glass. lmao

[indigo rain]

yeahhh i wouldnt really gague any idea of balance off of Petis. Great server, but at this point it plays the game entirely differently from officials

[hasty coyote]

to be fair, thats a mutation issue, not a carnivore issue.

like mutations are notorious for being horribly balanced

looking at you speed mutations

[indigo rain]

yes. however every carnivore has access to those mutations; and its not like carnivores dont also have cc options such as omni pin, cerato puke, carno knockdown and stagger, rex pin, herrera stagger (which is can just avoid being in a fight entirely by staying in the trees), deino grab, etc etc

also, i currently have 70% increased hearing range on a hypervigilant galli on third gen. I do NOT want to find out how busted a teno with that mut would be at hunting bleeding carnivores >.>'

can hear things in the walls lmao

[hasty coyote]

balancing around the having combat mutations causes the literal antithesis of the purpose of mutations (which mutations are also just causing themselves): You are forced to take X meta build or become fodder to someone who took the meta build.

the better option is to rework or remove the combat mutations so that they arent must-haves.

and then also fix the cc issue separately

because balancing one op thing with another op thing (or a a heavy nerf in a different aspect) is how we end up with current pachy, where its complete fodder other than leg fracture allowing it to bully literally anything to death.

[indigo rain]

I agree. Unfortunately there is no sign of them being removed if ever sadly. :/

At the moment, taking into account what each dino is capable of, cc is a little excessive on both sides but its not like a skilled player cant also bait out a long animation and cheeze the hell out of someone. I've watched an omni solo a maia with bites as well as solo a teno in two diff fights just by baiting out the animations.

I've also been a teno nailing a carno in the head with my tail over and over again to pin it in a crevice so it would starve to death while the 6 other carnos couldn't reach me because what else could I do in that situation lol

Its complicated to say the least.

[hasty coyote]

a lot of that kinda seems like skill diffs (and prob an issue with carno's knockdown animation being 3 years long), which are common and fine imo. You can't balance things to be equally good in everyone's hands unless you give 0 player agency.

but so long as all players have options to survive an encounter, then its fine. That maia could have just ran away, used better terrain, or simply hit 1-2 kicks to survive. Same with the teno, minus being able to run away. The carnos could have chosen to not engage, or wait to engage with more favorable terrain.

My main issue comes with when you simply DONT have an option or the odds are so stacked against you that there might as well be no option. Like speed mut cera literally running down pachies.

[rigid tulip]

the problem is that someone can just spam the cc the whole fight and not get punished

yes the players who gets hit should be punished but so should someone who misses. Thus creating openings. Fights should not be short and based on who lands their one shot ult nuke first. The name of the game should be maximizing skill expression in every matchup.

[rigid tulip]

teno is the one herbivore that when you are playing as omni hits you when you should and doesn't have opressive cc

maia and dibble are luck based fights essentially

with their hitboxes and every move essentially being a guaranteed one shot

they have to make around 50 mistakes while if you make one you die

which I am fine with, but perhaps just make it more consistent and make the herbivore's descisions more impactful than "im gonna spam my attacks the entire fight until I one shot you"

teno has PERFECT hitboxes

literally elden ring style hitboxes

most balanced dino in the game by far and everyone should honestly look to it as an example of what all playables should strive for in balancing

[rigid tulip]

the one you say it could struggle against are honestly its best matchups

assuming you arent solo for the carno ofc

[thorn mountain]

#balance-feedback message only valid thing is the cera rebalance but you did it the wrong way also wth is the manger????

[slim dragon]

"Cera needs a rebalance"

"Buff other carnis and nerf herbis, don't touch cera"

[thorn mountain]

yea

[junior wagon]

What do yall think of letting Deino's lunge be used as a deathroll mechanic when the prey in the water is too big to grab in the mouth. The bucking mechanic can be used for the prey to release from the death grip and this is close to how real crocs would attack their prey in water when they aren't able to drag it down to drown.

To me it's just crazy Rexes and Trikes have no fear in the water once they are FG under normal circumstances.

[eager saddle]

Whenever I see “cera is OP so buff every carni to the same level” I die a little on the inside. Just nerf cera then😒

[obtuse ocean]

I dont think deino needs that, it already got alot of stuff on its menu. I dont think its smart swimming trying to fight a croc as trike, but crossing a river shouldt be a problem for a trike

[junior wagon]

Ya they can cross fine without being bothered which is crazy to begin with, then the other part is they can hold their ground in the water and pretty much kill crocs especially where the water is shallow.

The only time this is not working for the trike is when you have a smart croc that bites and dives below their hitbox

and they got a big hitbox

[slim dragon]

There are barely any species in the game too big for deino to grab
It's okay to have 10% of the roster that you cannot oneshot

[junior wagon]

The mechanic I'm suggesting is a fighting/sparring mechanic in water where stamina is a key factor for croc and prey.

Whoever runs out will lose, this is the deathroll mechanic where Deino cant grab the prey fully but can fight it

[dusky surge]

deino has the largest elder in the game at 13+ tons. It can grab and drown swimming adult trikes and rexes

it REALLY doesn't need more than that

[junior wagon]

13.5 tons atm can only grab 8.1 tons so that is incorrect.

[junior wagon]

it should be able to grab 10 tons imo, more closer to 70% of its body weight but atm default value is 60% and is the same for Elders

[slim dragon]

Default value is 50% and that's plenty enough
Unless it has been buffed in ht, in which case it should be reverted

[junior wagon]

It's always been 60% an 8 ton croc can grab a 6 ton or under

[slim dragon]

Only in the water
And in that situation the threshold is 75%, not 60%

[junior wagon]

you are right i had lower percentage

[wheat moth]

@abstract yew please think about why Rex has bone break in the first place

It’s to be able to deal with x prime dinosaurs. A Rex for example can’t kill a prime dibble or prime Maia in one crush due to not having enough damage. Bone break solves that

[dusky surge]

why would a rex need to kill a prime maia or prime dibble in one crush

that was never a problem that needed solving

just... attack more than once lmao

im actually partially convinced that comment is satire because the concept of "it needs bone break because otherwise it might potentially not be able to instantly murder a 5.4 ton mega herbivore" sounds more like a parody of rex players than a genuine concern

[wheat moth]

Brother

You can not attack more than once when they’re faster than you. That’s why you ambush them in the first place… ambushing them makes them unable to react fast enough to escape hence why crush one shots them. Now, if crush can’t one shot them, and doesn’t bone break either, they’ll just end up escaping after tanking the initial crush that didn’t kill them. Bone break solves this and makes them unable to flee after tanking a crush pin attack due to their weight buff in their prime

[wheat moth]

If a Rex ambushes you, you’re gonna die. How it should be. A rex is slow and needs a lot of food to eat. Damn sure if a 9.4 ton beast ambushes and pins a mid tier he deserves to die in one pin, or gets bone break after that if they don’t die

My problem with bone break right now is that it’s over tuned. An adult Rex has no business bone crushing an adult stego or a trike if the trike is low enough health. Make bone break harder to use on stego and above, while keeping it the way it is for Maia and below for adult Rex. Juvie and sub Rex however need their bone break reduced. Juvie shouldn’t bone break and sub Rex should only bone break 50% of its weight or if the enemy that’s getting crushed is 25% below its weight and is in wounded status. This right here makes Rex very balanced

[dusky surge]

rex has murdersprint, a headswing to knockdown and stun prey, a good trot speed, EXTREMELY slow hunger drain as an adult, high damage on bites and whatever else it may need, all on top of the pinning crush attack

fracture is just "oh fight's over i win" on literally anything because a fracture is just instant death for most things, hence why it feels ass for anything to deal with on top of EVERYTHING ELSE rex has

[wheat moth]

Rex needs to be able to one shot mid tiers when it ambushes them and pins them. If it can’t do that then the mid tiers will simply tank it and escape. Rex is too slow to sprint after them after they get up and flee. The only reason you caught them in the first place is that they got close enough for you to ambush them and you ambushed them to where they couldn’t react fast enough to escape

And Rex is not one shotting prime x dinosaurs, hence why it has bone break. So they can’t tank the initial crush and be able to run away

[dusky surge]

honestly for my money i still have a bigger problem with murdersprint than fracture tbh

murdersprint is by far my least favourite part of its kit, its just a crutch for not actually being able to ambush things

[wheat moth]

And I disagree with that. Having murder sprint is necessary to be able to catch things that aren’t literally point blank on top of you, which most things won’t be. Especially when that 9.4 ton beast sounds like a truck when sprinting, everything will be able to react fast enough to run away just from hearing the running footsteps without even seeing the Rex if he doesn’t have ambush speed

[dusky surge]

if you're ambushing, i'd expect you're doing it from a hidden position

[wheat moth]

Which you will be even with murder sprint

[dusky surge]

not using a speed boost to compensate for your inability to do so

[wheat moth]

The speed boost is for dinosaurs not be able to react fast enough that are 2 meters away due to hearing footsteps. You still have to ambush correctly to catch things. If you don’t ambush correctly you’re not catching anything even with murder sprint

[dusky surge]

the idea that not having an arbitrary speed boost would suddenly make rex oh-so incapable of ambushing is laughable and frankly just kind of a skill issue

its not like rex is snails pace without it, it still easily outpaces other large animals sans murdersprint

[wheat moth]

It’s not a skill issue lmao, with how loud his running footsteps are, it’s needed for things to not be able to literally run away without seeing the Rex if the Rex isn’t point blank on top of them. Like I said, you still have to ambush correctly, wait in a bush and have patience. You still got to do the work to actually ambush stuff

[dusky surge]

and you'd still have to do the work without the stupid murdersprint

to me, it presents a brand new balancing problem that every single creature is gonna have to deal with

every single new creature's speed values gotta account for rex murdersprint to make sure it isn't fodderised

[wheat moth]

And? Rex stamina is super bad, besides, now that you mention it, murder sprint isn’t just there to ambush stuff. Murder sprint can help the Rex deal with giga/acros that try to face tank the Rex then be able to run away after dealing enough bleed. Rex will most likely be slower than them base speed so they’re able to do that, with murder sprint they can’t face tank a literal brawler and be able to run away after that

[dusky surge]

it already has tools to deal with that?

headswing staggers and allows it to punish

every single other brawler is fine without murdersprint

so this only serves to prove my idea that rex murdersprint exists to cover skill issues, since literally every other brawler type animal can simply use its attacks to punish rather than a "speed up button"

[wheat moth]

No point in arguing when the playables ain’t even out yet anyways. I gave out my opinions as to why Rex has bone break + murder sprint and I’m thankful the devs don’t listen to this community when it comes to balancing because lord have mercy if it did. Lots of salty people mad that Rex caught them ambush range and now they want to nerf it to the ground lmao. Literal deino complains all over again since Rex has similar playstyle

[dusky surge]

Oh I haven't been caught by rex yet, I hated murdersprint well before this HT

I hated it since legacy had ambush

It's just not a very good mechanic and feels antithetical to what an ambush actually is

[wheat moth]

Fair enough, we just have different opinions on the playable ig and it all comes down to what the devs think

[crimson crater]

can’t blame people for being mad, even if you were to hypothetically spot the rex in the short time frame it comes running at you, you wouldn’t be able to get out of that situation, deino has a lot of glaring issues and the only counter to it is to abuse the environment, no wonder people complain, it isn’t fun for both parties. now look at herrera who is an ambusher that’s well done, it dosen’t rely on speed even though it attacks from a great distance

[cosmic pelican]

Now thats some herrera propaganda if Ive ever seen one

[wheat moth]

The Rex isn’t faster than anything except stegos and above. Ambushing mid tiers is a must since they are faster than you. If you see the Rex you’ll be able to escape unless you’re in his ambush range that’s literally a one second sprint before the others can react

[crimson crater]

with murder sprint it’s faster than dibbles

[wheat moth]

Ain’t dibble 36kmh? Murder sprint is around 34-35

[crimson crater]

it isn’t 36 anymore

[cosmic pelican]

It got nerfed to 34.2kmh

[wheat moth]

Oh wtf

I don’t like that change

[cosmic pelican]

Literally got nerfed just so it can be rex food

[dusky surge]

neither, feels like it was explicitly made to make sure they're rex food (and the AI dibble nonsense isn't helping either)

[cosmic pelican]

Ambush speed rex is like 1-2 kmh faster

[maiden temple]

Indeed, the most satisfying thing to fight with and to fight against, but you have to actually test it out yourself to know

Did anyone try stego on hordetesting yet with all the rexes roaming around?

[elfin night]

#balance-feedback message

“rex can be left as it is”

https://tenor.com/view/war-vietnam-ptsd-shell-shock-moment-gif-3022747568394546158

[rigid tulip]

#balance-feedback message

It should at no point in its life be faster than a teno tbh

I think its max speed should be exact teno speed

Or pachy speed when its smaller than pachy only

[viscid mica]

If Rex doesn’t eat a big nerf soon imma start a riot about why we need HT pachy back

[carmine tundra]

@cobalt dagger 2 people disagree with you lol, im inclined to agree with you
juvi rexes are meant to die it just should happen

[cobalt dagger]

One of the two people who 'disagreed' was actually myself, I always put both a check and a x on my own comments to give people something quick to click on.

[carmine tundra]

oh

valid

[cobalt dagger]

I agree although if it was raptor-speed-when-raptor-sized but unable to pin it's own size and therein would get pinned by raptors I would tolerate that balance.

Well, also provided it had weak damage state too.

stat*

[carmine tundra]

i mean i feel like the max speed it should be is 45

[keen plover]

I can see asking for a slight speed nerf, but you're also forgetting carno is still faster than a juvi rex with charge. Carno is still the fastest dino in the game

[steep gazelle]

Rex Juv/Sub 60km, Carno with charge is 58-59km

[junior wagon]

Rex subadult will always destroy Carno atm due to speed and power.

[keen plover]

With speed mutations it's that fast. Base though it's 57.3km/h at its fastest point

Carno is faster than Juvi Rex

[thorn mountain]

#balance-feedback message this is the worst take ive ever seen.

[quick pendant]

@knotty temple im curious why you think pachy's knockdown of all things is too good, it can literally only stun omnis and lower which is fine and pachy is kinda meant to be aggressive especially, because if you get ambushed you are put in a horrible position being that squishy, if anything i think pachy would be cool to stagger opponents when it fractures them (not kockdown, just a stagger) up to 1300 or maybe bary weight when that releases to be balanced, since pachy vs ceras and carnos if they are avg or better they can easily kill you when you are stunned after a hit, the stagger wouldnt allow for free damage or anything unless you are in a group of pachy's and would only to be able to somewhat safely fracture without dying because of stun lock cough cera vomit cough (and you can only stagger on a target 3 times unless they heal, so you cant stun lock really)

[hasty coyote]

tbh, I agree with the current implementation, its probably the worst balanced mechanic I have seen. The concept of the mechanic is great though, it just needs a lot of adjustments.

[thorn mountain]

oh yeah

[quick pendant]

i heard they have the eldering process sped up in ht to test the mechanic easier, so i think they intend to slow it down a lot on final release

[hasty coyote]

the speed is not my issue, stuff like a 900kg pachy thats faster than an omni and knocks down adult carnos+ceras is my issue.

basically made any dino just fodder to a prime elder of similar size, and the moment you start getting frail you become fodder again

[quick pendant]

i mean theres also for reference a maia that is barely les than stego weight, i like the system and if they slow down the eldering it will be harder to reach the prime, and prime is generally harder on small-er dinos because of their fast growth, and after the prime time of prime elder the only good thing they have is weight and lose a lot of speed and damage i think, but pachy being 900kg might be a bit much i agree, maybe mor like 750 or so but 900 is a lil nuts

[hasty coyote]

My issue ain’t with how hard it is to get prime elder, my issue is how powerful you become. Because people will find the meta Strat that makes it easy eventually.

The main issue is that a lot of dinos are getting WAY too strong buffs for prime, and frail elders are getting way too weak. Speed should not be touched for either of them, because that is THE deciding factor on if you live or die, even the 5% speed boost mutations can ruin entire matchups, but these speed changes are insane. Weight requires careful consideration, else you get Omnis pinning pachies, pachies flipping ceras, ceras who can face tank tenos, etc. health and damage can be changed, so long as it ain’t way too far. You could even give dinos specific buffs/nerfs for their species, like Omnis counting as more/less weight towards grapple, dilos having extra/less venom charges, etc.

But the current implementation of just massively boost/nerf weight, damage, and speed just turns certain Dinos into gods and others into fodder, so you’re either prime elder or fodder to one.

[quick pendant]

what i meant was yes some of the changes are too much for the speed, but if they slow it down like they intend to when eldering there will be a way bigger reason for it to be good, and after prime elder your stats will drop off somewhat (prime elder) i agree that some is way too much, like a pachy that is 900 is too much, maybe more like 750ish sounds good to me etc, but eldering shouldnt be bad especially as a prime elder and its gonna be slow so it will take a long time to be a strong prime elder to make up for the power difference, so idk i can only really have a say based on how slow they make eldering, and yesh normal frail elder is horrendous they need to make it somewhat better so it still encourages entombment without making you have to entomb pretty much

[obtuse ocean]

When you touch speed you also loose some of that survival aspect of the game, that should be rewarded. Choose not to engage in a fights/run away. Feels bad if you come around a corner and its just rng if something can just run you down from afar. Its fine dying to something that can just straight up kill you, but people should have the tools not to make that happened if you make good decisions etc

[regal valve]

Agreed, Elders should not be faster than adults imo

[dusky surge]

im fine with frails being slower, but i despise prime elders being faster

[hasty coyote]

I’m incredibly tentative about that, maybe slightly slower. But not to the point that you’re slower than something like 2x your weight like now, it’s just forcing people to afk the last stretch of their life. I would much rather nerf their stam by a bit and their stam regen. So you’ll have a chance to escape, but it’s still much worse than a regular adult.

[hasty coyote]

Yeah that’s my issue, it removes all agency from you because “well this guy is prime elder, so you just die”

[steep gazelle]

Yes. That's why rex need to have a reduction in his speed

Rex should reach a top speed of around 45-49km throughout its growth

[regal valve]

49 might be a lil too much, considering it get's it's highest speed when it weights like, 800 kg iirc?

[junior wagon]

Roughly ya, but 50-52 is fine, Rex does not need to be insane in speed, it already has bite power goign for it.

Carno gets rundown and so do raptors, its a lil funny to see but I wouldn't want to be the carno or raptor

[steep gazelle]

49 is a good speed, maybe even less is better due to its crush damage capacity

[regal valve]

Honestly if it was as fast as an Omni when it reaches "prime juvie" it would be fine, at least Omni has the agility and stamina advantage and Dilo could escape (Pachy however... )

[steep gazelle]

If Rex continues with all this damage capacity even at such a young age as Juv/Sub, his maximum speed should be 46km

[junior wagon]

well a pack of pachies can definitely mess up a sub rex, solo pachy shouldn't even have a chance

you break every bone on the poor rex with enough pachies battering the poor rex

you may lose one but that rex will die

[regal valve]

I was talking about "prime juvie" rex (which is at like 45%). ofc sub rex should demolish pachies

[steep gazelle]

Pachy should be able to go 1v1 with a Rex Sub, since it is currently 20km faster

[junior wagon]

juvie rex ~1000kg with high bite force its pretty deadly but soft target

[regal valve]

when does rex get to 1 ton btw? 50%?

[junior wagon]

roughly

[regal valve]

I see
How fast is it at 50% if u remember?

[steep gazelle]

Rex still needs a lot of improvement and balancing and I highly doubt that this will happen as it should. It seems like they want Rex to be strong since Juv and easy to play xd

[junior wagon]

it was like 56 almost 60 with photo unless they nerfed it

[steep gazelle]

"Press a button and let the game do everything for you"

[regal valve]

fair and balanced

[junior wagon]

seems like they only changed some stats but left speed from the unofficial ones that older rex model they used

[regal valve]

Now i get that Apexes should be on a league of their own, but that's ridiculously op

[junior wagon]

i was able to hold my ground against a FG rex as elder croc 9.2 tons which was interesting, he thought biting my tail wwas a good idea. eventually got him to red and he backed off iwas still green health.

though juvie rex shouldnt be so fast at least capped at 52 tbh.

[rigid tulip]

42 is a good speed for its highest ever

[rigid tulip]

we could probably see an allo that outruns raptor with elders being faster plus stacking photo

terrifying

[summer lichen]

I spent all that time typing feedback and a mod just deletes it?

6 hours to repost in FEEDBACK so some MOD just said I dont like your idea I guess. GG.

[stark knoll]

That had nothing to do with the game's balance, I can dm you the content of your post

[summer lichen]

I wanted to make a suggestion to the game developers, show me a better place to do it then instead of just instantly obliterating something from the playerbase who took a lot of time to write it.

[stark knoll]

#general-feedback

[summer lichen]

Are you gonna give me my post back as well I did not save it as I did not think it would be deleted within 5 seconds

I also disagree, I think it could lead towards game balance / developement when the information is coming from a paleontologist from the UNIVERSITY of London. Which is why I put it here.

[stark knoll]

Ok but how would that help the in-game rex

Your post is just saying "watch the vid" as opposed to saying why it would be beneficial to the game

Plus the rex is.... right about to release. Not a lot of wiggle room for major changes

[viscid mica]

@steep furnace front pinning trike is desync

It can’t front pinning FG trikes

But with how bad the testing servers lag is rn it can certainly look like it

Rex pinning trike all together is some goofy tbh as Rex can just run in circles out turning trike and hit the side crush

It’s something mad goofy fr

[rigid tulip]

rex being able to pin trike is such a joke

[wheat moth]

I mean if the trike is low enough health I don’t see why it shouldn’t. After all a trike can knock down a Rex and win in 3 seconds

[thorn mountain]

#balance-feedback message this is a crazy statement 💀

[rigid tulip]

how about we stop making fights with the largest highest hp and longest growth times dinos be based on who lands the win button first

[wheat moth]

Exactly and that is why they have the sparring mechanic. I don’t see an issue of Rex being able to pin a trike that’s low HP (it takes 4-5 crushes to make the trike low enough HP to be pinned anyways). One good headshot attack can instantly knockdown the Rex + trike is better in head on fights and can push the Rex away to the point he can get knocked down.

[viscid mica]

@bitter rose fish Ai been bugged for a minute in main branch evirma

[viscid mica]

@onyx lichen I explain it well?

75% wader when your base speed is 25% faster is nutty lmao

[onyx lichen]

Yeah, might want to mention how the stacking also allows you to be so strong that Frail Prime Elders will be stronger than regular Prime Elders

[viscid mica]

They put a word limit on that chat

Otherwise that was my next point

But I felt explaining a extremely likely result of keeping this current system was important

Because that exact thing is what happened to BoB officials with the infinite grow

@hushed ibex based

Unless they make changes to Rex pin math so it can’t delete stego with a single button

I’m down but if they fix that than na just be a dps off which I believe stego should be able to win