balance-feedback-discussion

[elfin night]

And secondly, herbivores might give the impression of being harder prey because of evrima’s current state

[somber leaf]

As a herbie i stand in one place while around carnies kill each other for food because they know going after me is a waste of time or a surer death sentence lmao

playing a herbie in the isle is like playing in spectator mode

[elfin night]

How so? Simply because you don’t have to hunt for your food?

[somber leaf]

cuz i also dont get hunted for food

[elfin night]

You sure as hell do get hunted. And you might think otherwise also due to the current state of evrima with the roster. Biggest land carnivore we have is cera, which even then isn’t really meant to be on par with teno in terms of power. Things will be very different when rex and allo release

Just look at legacy for example. All herbivores were reliable prey as a carnivore if you were more or less within the same “tier” or size threshold

[somber leaf]

if Allos are not faster than tenos and with the same or less stamina the bigger carnis wont change anything. A prey needs to be in some sort of viable disadvantage, holding W is just too strong

[dusky surge]

it is in a viable disadvantage

if the allo grabs it, it's dead

that's a pretty viable disadvantage

[keen plover]

The quickest way to kill off a dinos playerbase

[dusky surge]

^

no one wants to play guaranteed death sim

[somber leaf]

its not a guarantee lmao

[dusky surge]

death should be due to your misplay, not "oh that's the form of death guess my time is over"

[somber leaf]

if you need to be faster or stronger then youre just not good at being a prey species

[dusky surge]

that's EXACTLY how prey species work tho?

[keen plover]

For most players that will be a guarantee. How many would pick that dino? It would be niche

[dusky surge]

prey doesn't evolve to not be superior than their predators in respects

prey evolves to be faster, stronger or something else

[keen plover]

Teno is popular because you can run from most threats and fight the ones you can't

[dusky surge]

otherwise it doesn't get to contunue

[bronze rapids]

This

[dusky surge]

which is how pretty much most creatures should work

[somber leaf]

While I was growing my Diablo I did in the highlands but didnt go to lake cuz I KNOW there will be ceras there. I remained in the waterless highlands and went to the river for water. It wasnt certain death altho a pack of ceras are faster and waaaay stronger than me

[dusky surge]

the evolutionary arms race doesn't just apply to predators

[somber leaf]

something being faster and stronger than me did nothing but make the play exciting

[dusky surge]

a pack of ceras being a threat is fine

a single allo being such a threat that teno can do nothing but pray is uh, not so good

[somber leaf]

carnivores evolve with it at the same pace

[dusky surge]

indeed they do, so they have advantages too

for instance, this tenonto keeps escaping me every time i get close

so i evolved the ability to hold it in place so i can kill it

seems fair to me

the tenonto has ITS survival strat (flee and make distance)

allo has its hunting strat (hold it in place and maul it to death)

the tenonto can survive, the allo can hunt

both are happy

[somber leaf]

just because its faster and stronger than you is not a death sentence

[dusky surge]

that is objectively a death sentence lmao

[somber leaf]

well its not

[dusky surge]

what exactly does the teno do then

[keen plover]

stick by the river and fear the 30 allos in the server 🗣️

[dusky surge]

like i need you to enlighten me on what the tenonto does

[somber leaf]

Migrate smarter and choose its location better

[keen plover]

Why can't allo do the same

[somber leaf]

go in places where it can lookout

[dusky surge]

When an allo sees you, what does a tenonto do

[somber leaf]

it has a early run

[dusky surge]

Oh so it presses w and shift

[somber leaf]

but smarter

[dusky surge]

ah

[somber leaf]

cuz its faster than you

[dusky surge]

it presses w and shift with LUCK instead of not with luck

[bronze rapids]

How do you press w smartly

[keen plover]

so pretty much the average player is going to pick something else

[dusky surge]

^

[keen plover]

Since they'll die quickly as teno. Pretty much killing off the playerbase

[dusky surge]

and then we'll have a lot of easy allos (because they don't have to play smart) and no tenontos (because why play that when allo is everything tenonto is but with less thinking and stronger)

[elfin night]

Mfw stealth exists too even if you are vastly slower than the thing you want to eat

Bro, not everything has to be running in a straight line in the open or hit trading

[somber leaf]

you press it towards hills so you lose line of sight and stuff. Im not gonna make a tutorial rn

[somber leaf]

exactly

[dusky surge]

why cant the allo avoid line of sight for its ambush

[keen plover]

ambushing is hard i guess

[dusky surge]

why does the herbivore need to do all of the thinking in the engage, and the predator not have to consider its plan of attack

[somber leaf]

carnivores need to do way more thinking even if theyre faster and stronger lmao

[elfin night]

What???

[somber leaf]

A herbivore knows how its gonna run away, the carnivore needs to predict that

[dusky surge]

????

w and shift after it becaues you're stronger and faster

and i've already cracked the complex code

[somber leaf]

Nope

[dusky surge]

you w and shift towards the herbivore

until you reach the herbivore

then you kill the herbivore

[somber leaf]

I am not doing on how to escape preditors tutorial in this discussion lmao

But its fun only if its hard

[dusky surge]

well, if the answer is "just don't get seen or ever interact with a predator" then i'm sure the tutorial isn't very deep

[cosmic pelican]

https://tenor.com/view/bait-used-to-be-believable-baited-jebaited-bait-i-got-jebaited-gif-1296286127798996733

[somber leaf]

herbivores always have the advantage of distance

[elfin night]

I am certain that cera has to think so hard and be extremely competent when fighting a juvenile 900kg dibble

[dusky surge]

no they don't if the allo, y'know, ambushes

[elfin night]

[dusky surge]

because uh guess what that's what they're supposed to do

[somber leaf]

Prey doesnt need to worry about ambushes if it you know.. opens its eyes

[elfin night]

At all times

[dusky surge]

although it is true that most carnivore players walk around waiting for food to walk into their line of sight and then run in a straight line at it, that shouldn't be their only gameplay

[elfin night]

Even while eating or drinking

That is a skill that you need to survive

[elfin night]

So true lol. Many carni players are terrible in this regard

[somber leaf]

and thinking where and when to do that. Which rn isnt really a skill, cuz youre faster and stronger

[keen plover]

faster and stronger?

am i missing something

[dusky surge]

sometimes carnivores need such things as

strategy
critical thinking
plans to overcome weaknesses (such as a lack of durability, power or speed)
an understanding of their kit

and not "oh that's a teno cool i was getting hungry anyways"

[somber leaf]

if im a teno i am stronger than anything slower than me, and faster than anything stronger then me, so i dont need to think too much when going to eat or drink

if allos are faster I would think A LOT where and when i eat and drink

[cosmic pelican]

How about we make diablo faster than cera. That would still be ok right?

[dusky surge]

i would think that i'd rather be playing allo lol

[elfin night]

Mfw you are attacked by a pack of dilos or omnis

[dusky surge]

because at least allo is good

[keen plover]

can you imagine being slower than one of the most anticipated dinos in evrima while also being weaker

I genuinely don't think there would be a teno playerbase

[dusky surge]

if im an allo i am stronger than anything slower than me, and faster than anything stronger then me, so i dont need to think too much when going to eat or drink

if im a teno im allo food so i'm just gonna play allo

[elfin night]

And you are completely ignoring and not even addressing when I tell you that this is also a roster issue because the strongest land carnivore we have rn is cera while maia, dibble, stego and teno exist in the game rn!!

It’s not an inherent game issue with herbivores being “too easy”. It’s just that nothing really other than groups can threaten them. Just look at legacy for example where we had a complete roster despite being far less mechanically complex, all herbis were consistent prey for someone if they didn’t watch out or play properly

You are literally not even talking about that argument. You are biasing that stance with the current incomplete roster of the game

[somber leaf]

im not ignoring it, i addressed it many times. Diablos unlike tenos have predators

[dusky surge]

what lol

[somber leaf]

Yet diablos are still viable

[keen plover]

Dilo?

[elfin night]

WHAT?

[somber leaf]

Dilos and ceras

[dusky surge]

dilos can also hunt tenos wtf

[keen plover]

Dilos maul teno when they work

[cosmic pelican]

Omni, carno, cerato, dilo, troodon, deino: Am I a joke to you?

[dusky surge]

lmao what are you talking about

[keen plover]

ok lets not add troodon

[somber leaf]

A pack of dilos can hunt a solo teno sure, but not a herd of them

[cosmic pelican]

Why? 😭

Teno is literally on its diet

[dusky surge]

and a pack of dilos can hunt a herd of dibbles?

[somber leaf]

they can

[keen plover]

nah just baiting lmaooo

[keen plover]

Not a chance what

[dusky surge]

what are you on about

[cosmic pelican]

https://tenor.com/view/water-spray-stop-sprinkle-water-gif-11895255

[dusky surge]

how the hell are dibbles losing to dilos but not tenos

[somber leaf]

its gonna take a ton of time but its a waiting game

[dusky surge]

either those dibbles are hot dogwater or dibble's damage really is that ineffectual

[somber leaf]

usually it wont happen cuz of outside factors

[dusky surge]

and it's not with tenonto???

sorry why is tenonto exempt i'm not gathering here

what does tenonto do that makes it diloproof

[somber leaf]

they just cant do a herd of tenontos

[dusky surge]

why not????

do they have a goddamn antivenom aura what are you talking about

[somber leaf]

cuz they are fast lmao they can more effectively protect each other

[elfin night]

1. Okay, elaborate why the quick drifting sparring stance facetank oriented ceratopsian with free cc is actually easier to hunt than a teno that is half its size.

2. If teno has this problem but dibble doesn’t, then why is it a problem of the entire roster whose role is intended to be a prey???

[dusky surge]

dibbles can literally construct a literal shield wall how are they less effective

dilos are faster than both dibble and teno i fail to see by what black magic tenonto is immune

[somber leaf]

One at a time ladies

[cosmic pelican]

Because tenonto is clearly op

[dusky surge]

like honestly you're giving teno a lot of credit for nothing

[somber leaf]

I am honestly not cuz i go out of my way to kill smaller (number) packs of dilos with it when solo

[elfin night]

If dilos get hunted by tenos that is completely on them

[somber leaf]

I can't blame them

If you are easily dying to something faster and stronger than you then thats entirely on you

[elfin night]

Dilos can destroy tenos if they are playing in the same way as the dibbles you are imagining inside your head

Equal comparison

[elfin night]

Teno can only ran down fresh spawns and small juveniles which even can just juke it

Are you baiting, brother? Or are you genuinely clueless and deadset?

[somber leaf]

I am giving honest feedback as a herbie

its boring in some species cuz i am stronger than anything faster than me and faster than anything stronger than me.

[keen plover]

Which is why you should upsize carno and let it hunt teno!!! yay!

[elfin night]

1. Packs of smaller things still pose a threat and they can be more common than same species herds because omni and dilo are popular playables

2. You are still not accounting for the incomplete roster as if we quite literally do not have any medium sized land carnivore designed to actively hunt things down

3. Dibbles when competent and in the same number are much tougher to take down than tenos and it is not even close

[somber leaf]

The only redeeming thing as an adult herbie is that you could possibly nest

[dusky surge]

i think getting killed with no way to consistently fight back is boring

[elfin night]

Couldn’t it be that you are falling into confirmation bias or extremely limited anecdotal evidence after playing with teno once or twice?

[somber leaf]

its not about teno but go on

[elfin night]

^ also this, your idea of locking herbivores into unwinnable matchups (as in both fight or flight) is total dookie

[somber leaf]

If you need to be faster and stronger then thats a skill issue

[elfin night]

Then why is dibble fine but teno isn’t?

And maia is also prone to predation

[somber leaf]

i dont see why all the skill needs to be on the carnivores

[dusky surge]

i dont need to be faster and stronger. i just need to be one of the two so i can have a consistent method of survival

[elfin night]

What’s skillful about being forced to keep 90 meters of safe distance just so you don’t get ran down and die with no counterplay vs a carnivore much larger than you?

[dusky surge]

both need skill. that's the point. carnivores need to know how to attack, herbivores need to know how to survive that attack

[somber leaf]

consistent is the big problem

I want more adaptation factors

[dusky surge]

consistent is the opposite of the problem

[elfin night]

I never said faster AND stronger, I always advocated and will keep advocating for one or the other when talking about adult playables

[dusky surge]

there are

growth, health state, stamina amount, location, predator/prey animals

[somber leaf]

I want... MORE

i dont see why thats a bad thing

Growing is the only exciting time in herbie play (cuz you are actually slower and weaker) and you need to nest to have a fun late game which due to population reasons is not always an option

[dusky surge]

because games lose fun value when you lack counterplay to such an extent that it's just "welp i die"

[somber leaf]

there will still be counter play

there would be no adult herbies if there wasnt

[elfin night]

The counterplay: don’t get spotted ever and always keep a 100 meter distance with the predator twice your size

Just further pushing herbivores into isolated areas that no one uses

Great idea to make a one sided matchup so that carnivores now have to kill each other since over half of the roster is either hiding all the time in some random corner of the map or no one plays them because they were made deliberately worse

Spiffing plan, tens of thousands of dollars down the drain for the devs

Just because some playables like teno are solid picks

[somber leaf]

if thats the only way you can

[tall bronze]

Honestly, I agree with that strategy to an extent. It's why I always disagreed with the "if it can't run, it must fight and vice versa" mindset.
Sometimes ya just gotta not let the scary monster with teeth get within killing distance.

The trick though is ensuring said killing distance isn't absurd, else you create a sense of "you just die if it sees you, period"

Like just as a made up example, let's say Allo is super fast but has awful running stamina. Ava is not strong enough to fight it nor fast enough to run away, but it's got a helluva lot more stamina than Allo. So as long as the Ava pays attention and doesn't let the Allo get too close before it can run away, it'll be fine. Even if the Allo saw it and tried to catch it, it'd tire out too quickly.

Just gotta use yer eyes and ears.

Fail to do so though, and yeah you just blegh. And that's on you in that situation.

[dusky surge]

ava could also just have a burrow tho

so it still has a tertiary option

i don't think the "run and fight" applies if there's a teritary option

for example, can't run or fight, but can burrow? you don't need to do either as long as you have that

[somber leaf]

i made this suggestion 100%

herbie doesnt need to be faster than something that is stronger than it

[tall bronze]

Yeah that can also work.
It doesn't have to be Ava of course, I just used it as a random example huehue.

[somber leaf]

There are other ways

[elfin night]

If you made allo 5kph faster than teno like in that hypothetical above, that’s very much the only way it would have

[dusky surge]

but if your ONLY OPTIONS are run or fight, then you'd better be able to do one or the other

otherwise why pick that animal

especially if carnivores are expected to be able to do both

[somber leaf]

the example was purely for maths sake lmao i wasn't suggesting anything with that

you jumped in and participated without context

[elfin night]

Weird example to propose if it doesn’t support your point but sure

[tall bronze]

I mean, it's never really JUST either run or fight since there's so many animals and situations.
You can run from this one, but can't from this one.

I still say as long as you can pay attention and not let the things you can't tussle with nor run away from get too close to get ya, it's fine.

[elfin night]

Correct

[somber leaf]

i didnt know the exact numbers of species so i threw random numbers, i didnt realize how close to the real thing i was

[elfin night]

But the way it was worded above it was…bruh

[dusky surge]

yea but see that just encourages people to play something else that DOESN'T HAVE the "instadeath predator"

see the issue? you aren't adding more to the animal, you're taking away players because players would prefer to rely on their own skill than their luck

[elfin night]

Like it just sounds nonsensical to make herbivores/omnivores on purpose like that by default

[somber leaf]

5km/h is average human walking speed

[tall bronze]

I don't really see it that way honestly.
If peeps prefer one thing over the other, more power to em.
If the animal in question has fun and interesting gimmicks and abilities, it'll be fine 😛

[elfin night]

Also agree with this. If the killing distance is excessive it is awful gameplay for the most part because having that sort of gimmick is not really appealing for gameplay unless you have other ways to escape like for example agility, climbing or swimming

[tall bronze]

Yeah it's not really "relying on luck" if you uh....
pay attention.

[somber leaf]

But "ambushes" :c

[dusky surge]

ambushes exist. the concept that you can just spontaneously be immune to them is as amusing as it is strange

[tall bronze]

That's just the nature of ambushes though 😛

[somber leaf]

lmao there it is

[dusky surge]

carnivores should put effort into being unnoticed

the game provides tons upon tons of active cover

[tall bronze]

https://tenor.com/view/yes-question-gif-11239528

I mean that's exactly why I hate the idea of ambush speed boosts huehue

[dusky surge]

so do i

i personally feel the carnivore should have to put in work to take down a herbivore. it's a hunt, not a meal. you gotta put in the work of killing it first

i enjoy carnivore for the challenge

i don't like the idea of easy meals

and i like even less the idea of losing a prey option because no one plays it because it consistently dies if spotted by x predator

i want a varied roster, not "meta picks" and "troll picks"

[elfin night]

Ambush speed boost or making prey more vulnerable artificially just feels like a carnivore crutch. If an allo wants a teno, it better make a good ambush taking advantage of the entire jungle and tall grass it has at its disposal, or camping at a patrol zone or near a plant the herbivore will go to

[tall bronze]

Which is why I stressed before that it's really important to ensure the killing distance of a predator in this scenario isn't absurd, else then it does become "you just die if it spots you".

If it's done right though, just pay attention and you'll live 🤷

[dusky surge]

but that's not always possible. you have a set FOV, the need to rest, eating and drinking, etc

i think it's a big ask to also go "well if x carnivore is in this range you are basically dead give up"

i think there's a lot of opportunities given to carnivores already and would rather they learn to capitalise, rather than have the game provide an easy out of simply entering the right range for an efficient kill

[tall bronze]

Like going back to the Ava and Allo example (again, just made up stuff here), if Allo had plenty of stamina AND speed, then yeah Ava paying attention wouldn't matter much because it'll just catch up anyways.

But in the ideal scenario of Allo running out of energy really quickly, then the Ava has a safe distance of sorts. It sees the Allo over there because it payed attention, and can get away in time. If the Allo tries to catch up, it just tires out.

[bronze rapids]

What if we all just play hypsi and dryo and make cute noises and no one has to die <3

[leaden sluice]

yayyy :3

[bronze rapids]

:3c

[tall bronze]

Well, guess we'll agree to disagree then
I like the idea personally.

[dusky surge]

we have night time where herbis lose vision, we have bushes and forests, we have eating and drinking camera lock, we have a need to rest, so on

there are so many varied opportunities for carnivores to take these advantages that i find the concept of also adding on a "death radius" feels like it's granting the carnivore the win

it just feels like the strategy is gone. you have already gotten all the tools to enter that range easily, it should at least be a struggle to deliver the killing blow

[somber leaf]

there will always be strategy when you're in pvp

[dusky surge]

and again, it's also a matter of overall player popularity. if a dinosaur has such a matchup, and it feels unfair to the player (which it absolutely will because most players like having their time respected with an animal that is sufficiently capable of fending for itself), they will simply... stop playing that animal and move on to something more reliable

[neon willow]

So basically dryo, hypsi? They're practically extinct

[elfin night]

I am a canni dryo

[dusky surge]

hell, not even, because those animals don't instantly die when a predator is in their range

those are an example of poor mechanical depth basically not being worth the engagement

you can like what you like but most players have a significant respect for their time investment and don't want to deal with matchups where they feel entirely helpless, even at the peak of their growth and power

you might enjoy the extra challenge, but players want challenge that they can at least know they can handle with their animal's kit and stats. if they feel that there was nothing they could do, they're going to want to play something else

you're alienating the entire rest of the playerbase from that animal just for your own enjoyment, and ensuring that animal will never be popular

which, imho, is rather unfair

[neon willow]

Is that not the situation with dryo though? I've heard that the dodge thing only delays the inevitable with dinos like omni

[dusky surge]

dryo's insane agility can allow for some crazy plays but you're also not wrong

it is actually one of the animals which is helpless if an omni gets within its killing range

which, honestly, would be FINE

if it had a burrow

[bronze rapids]

Noooooo >:(((

[dusky surge]

honestly the idea of "needing prior awareness" is valid, imho, if you're a burrower

[elfin night]

Or a climber since it is functionally the same as a terrain that others can’t really get to

[dusky surge]

^

[elfin night]

It’s fine for galli to obliterate herra since herra only needs to be aware and be able to climb just in time

[neon willow]

Except they're NOT a burrower, because they can't burrow. Id agree if burrowing was in the game, but as is, dryo is a walking dinner bell

[somber leaf]

nobody is suggesting a simple change, its a suggestion of a direction

[dusky surge]

yes, you are doomed if they enter your range, but you have the tools to avoid that encounter and are rewarded with a consistent escape option if you are pre-emptively awate of a threat

[dusky surge]

then you're alienating the entire herbivore playerbase

pretty bold for a game like this

[somber leaf]

Not alienating nobody

[dusky surge]

you are

because people want their time respected and want a level of control

[somber leaf]

There are mix of changes that can be done to make it good

[somber leaf]

Yeah i am people too

I go to work and dont get to have 5-7 hours to grow a diablo

[dusky surge]

but not the core majority

the core majority want to be able to either fight or flee

consistently

[somber leaf]

in the current state ofc

what else are you supposed to do

[neon willow]

Honestly I'd qualify burrowing climbing and swimming as "fleeing", as functionally it accomplishes the same thing- keep away and end the encounter without combat

[dusky surge]

^

[somber leaf]

^^

[dusky surge]

true. but it's a different component

it's a different approach

but yes, it works as such

[somber leaf]

i am asking for more different approaches that lets niches be functional

[dusky surge]

which there will be when we get stuff like a completed dryo or hypsi

or something like protoceratops

[neon willow]

Eh... Not really? Sure, rather than faster horizontal movement speed it's a vertical movement but it's not all that different

[dusky surge]

animals which don't just run or fight but actually do more

[somber leaf]

there are things like stamina differences, possible other new mechanics as well

[dusky surge]

i can agree herbivores can be boring but if your idea went through i think i just wouldn't play them anymore lol

i think our two most unique herbis STILL not being finished is a big problem tbh

[worthy steeple]

dryo and hypsi?

[neon willow]

Id like at least hypsi to get climbing - after all, it's been in game with herra for a while now

[dusky surge]

yea

[worthy steeple]

fair

[neon willow]

Dryo really needs burrow, but they claim they're having difficulty with the burrowing system, which I guess is fair

[dusky surge]

spending a few hours to grow a teno only to realise someone spent those hours better by growing something bigger and stronger than me that i can't run from or fight?

yea i ain't feeling like teno anymore

my choice shouldn't feel like the wrong one

i want my death to feel like my mistake, not just "unlucky"

[neon willow]

^ that's what most people do. Especially since in the isle most things take literal hours to grow.

[dusky surge]

yea

[somber leaf]

i do think herbies should have shorter growths

[dusky surge]

that doesn't solve anything tbh

[somber leaf]

I dont think herbies and carnis should be treated as equals

[dusky surge]

honestly it just cements their place as food than actual playables

grow fast to feed something quicker

[somber leaf]

Yeah thats my idea when i log in as a herbie

[dusky surge]

yea no

[somber leaf]

the only reason i dont like it is cuz of the growth time

[neon willow]

Even so, carnivores are already more popular, and would become even more popular if playing herbi was relegated to cosplaying food for the carnivores

[dusky surge]

^

[somber leaf]

Carnivores are more popular cuz theyre more fun

[dusky surge]

i would rather play something with agency rather than glorified resources

and making herbis less fun would solve this how

[somber leaf]

Carnivores have an active gameplay while herbies have passive

its making their gameplay more active

[dusky surge]

yea... they're herbivores. that's kind of what you sign up for when you pick one

you say you don't want them treated as equals yet you're treating the herbivores as something that needs to play actively

[somber leaf]

yeah but its even more so when carnivores dont even hunt you

[neon willow]

I concur. Carnivore is more fun because hunting requires strategy and planning. Herbivores need mechanics that also engage their players. But I don't think making them grow faster achieves this

[dusky surge]

despite the whole point of herbivore irl and otherwise is that they aren't that active. they're primarily reactive

[somber leaf]

^

there is little to react to

[elfin night]

Unfortunately this is not a sentiment the vast majority of players share, especially those who are especially fond of herbivores. They want to play an animal in an island that feeds on plants and is prone to being attacked by others that eat, but they are just as valuable as carnivores.

And from a meta perspective this is the same. Devs don’t spend literal hundreds if not thousands of hours of their finite lifetime and the lead dev doesn’t spend thousands upon thousands of dollars just to make a significant chunk of the roster designed to be food for someone else

[dusky surge]

so actually we're making carnivore AND herbivore less fun

carnivore needs to strategise less because herbivores are easier to kill

herbivore is played less because they feel like they were scammed out of their time when they die to something faster and stronger with them with nothing they could do

wow, two birds, one stone

neither side wins

[somber leaf]

I doubt that my opinion is unpopular cuz I see it in the way herbies play. They go out of their way to put themselves in danger and get the "bloodlust"

If herbies dont get hunted they die anyways because they go and kill themselves

and thats not an unpopular event

[neon willow]

I'm agreeing with you...

[dusky surge]

yea i know

im building off you lol

[somber leaf]

There are a lot fewer herbivores which should be mean they would have a lot more fun because more carnivores means more danger? well thats not the case at all

Almost every adult herbies life ends in suicide

[neon willow]

Yes cuz they're bored. The game needs to give herbivores something engaging to do. Currently the only thing that really engages (on either side) is combat (or taunting/running away). The isle isn't particularly deep on other aspects of gameplay. And combat occurs more for carnivores because you're kinda required to to keep alive

[elfin night]

Where are you getting those numbers from?

And again, I say, if that were true

couldn’t that be true just now because we have to specialized big game hunter large mainland carnivore at the moment when there’s 4 giant herbivores and only cera can more or less deal with them in groups?

[somber leaf]

I dont think separating them from the carnivores even more is the way it should go tho. Might as well have it be 2 different games at this point

[elfin night]

Stegos end up killing themselves because the roster doesn’t have anything in land that can threaten them

Sort of the same happens to many dibbles

[neon willow]

That's not what I'm saying... I'm saying the isle should develop gameplay that engages players that doesn't involve combat. In many other survival games there are multiple mechanics to challenge players even when they aren't in combat

Combat is wonderful and complex in the isle, but other non-combat parts of gameplay are underdeveloped and kinda boring

Dinos that don't require combat as part of their gameplay loop as a result become incredibly boring... Leading players to play extremely aggro herbivores

[somber leaf]

something I also thought about is species variation and server size. But this is probably not a balancing discussion. Idk how i feel about The Isle being super rich on species when servers can't support that many players

[neon willow]

I think that could potentially be problematic tbh

Some dinos are as almost nonfunctional if they don't have a group... And with 100 ish slots and 40 ish dinos, that's about 2 dinos per species for the whole server IF they are perfectly distributed

[somber leaf]

when I am part of a big pack or a herd what I immediately think is " ok we are like 1/4* of the server right here"

[neon willow]

Yup... And that makes it really hard for other species to get critical mass to be functional

I think troodon is really the poster child of requiring a group to function... There's not a lot a single troodon can hunt (outside of fresh spawns)

I'm worried that as more of the large side of the roster are added, not only will people be less likely to pick troodon they'll also be less likely to pick things at the size that's even feasible for troodon to eat. Could potentially be problematic... Guess we'll see

[elfin night]

I once read a very good suggestion which I might try to bring back

Which is that of rotations

Which would work by having “only” 15ish playables at a given time in the character selection menu of officials or as an option you can toggle, in a way that all rotations are different and there’s always a server with a certain playable and it’s always coherent (so you don’t get hypsi, homalo, dibble and dryo paired with rex, giga, allo and spino) and these change weekly or biweekly

So that there’s a bigger chance of coming across some of your kind with such a huge roster

And if you survive as one and the rotation changes, you can just keep it

[slim dragon]

I know that suggestion
It's mine

Or maybe someone posted it before I did, but I don't remember it

[elfin night]

Yeah it is yours

[somber leaf]

It is a suggestion. I can see how it works well if its done right but its hard for me to imagine what "done right" exactly means

[elfin night]

I am talking about that one

[elfin night]

Just like, you know

[slim dragon]

#general-feedback message

[elfin night]

Create some “micro rosters” where relationships between species make sense

Such as having carno paired with any small game

Or rex with brawler herbivores

And a tendency for semi aquatics to be together

You know, other matchups could exist, but others would be incentivized

And then just make the diets sensible with those lists or just remove the species diet thing

[slim dragon]

The species diet thing has to go

[elfin night]

It would be a bit tricky to make, but it would certainly be better than to have one troodon player at most in a server

[slim dragon]

I see no world in which it's still functional with a roster of 60 species

[elfin night]

Or no protos or ovis

[somber leaf]

I wouldn't be mad if they tried that approach to this problem tbh. ideally servers and maps would just be big enough to accomidate but i understand the technical problems with that

[obsidian yacht]

Agreed, but how would you change it?

[slim dragon]

Option 1: Instead of listing species, list "types of meat" which are given by groups of species. For example, your dino would receive carbs from fatty meat, which is primarily obtained on large herbivores, while another carnivore would gain carbs from "tough meat" which is mostly obtained by eating medium-sized carnivores and small herbivores

Option 2: Remove diet lists from carnivores. Instead, every herbivore species will give a specific nutrient. For example, dryo will be full of lipids, no matter what's eating it. Could apply to plants as well.

Option 3 : Make carnivores rely exclusively on organs for diets, while having meat provide no nutrition at all. However, organs would give very few hunger and a lot of nutrients, making it necessary to eat both organs and meat from prey.

Option 4 : #general-feedback message

[haughty shadow]

Lowkey agree

[obsidian yacht]

I like option 2, although herbivore diet lists arent really an issue, so minus the plants part

The idea of specific mutations affecting diets is cool too

[slim dragon]

You think herbivores changing what kind of plant they can digest every 30 minutes isn't an issue ?

[haughty shadow]

To an extent though. I think it might become too complicated for newer players to understand, and what if an ecosystem or server doesn't have any of those smaller species. That'll become an even larger problem than the current diet system. However, I do like the idea of organs being primarily for diets and the actually corpse being for hunger. I think this way, people will end up finishing bodies. Then again, it comes down to if people are just going to continue killing ot get all the nutrients they need if it doesn't come from 1 body. As far as your second point, I think that every herbivore giving a nutrient to every carnivore could be cool, but might give more of an incentive for larger carnivores to prey on more smaller species when they most likely wouldn't go through that trouble realistically

[obsidian yacht]

Thats valid, though migration is a key point in player movement

[somber leaf]

^

I wish there was a better communication about those mechanics, I was so confused when i first saw my diets changing, i thought i was going insane

[haughty shadow]

Completely agreed. The fact that theres no tutorial or hints as to what to do with the diets or really anything in the game makes it complex and hard to understand, potentially scaring players away

[obsidian yacht]

Some form of tutorial is still planned afaik

[slim dragon]

The issue is diets right now are contradictory with themselves. Dryo isn't on rex diet for example, but you actually still gain diet from its organs, but you gain basically no food from it. I think it's immensely stupid to have carnis pass up on a potential meal because it's "not on their diet"

Sure rex shouldn't hunt galli for example, but that's not because galli isn't on its diet, it's because galli is way too fast to be caught and it provides so little food for a rex.

[haughty shadow]

Im sure it is, but it should be of higher priority imo

[somber leaf]

Player tips aids should be available tho. I ate gastroliths and wondered why i died of hunger so fast

[elfin night]

Option two is reliant on the idea that all herbivores assigned to a nutrient are reasonably picked and played, but I guess that could be done with good post release decisions and balancing

[slim dragon]

It's less reliant on it than current diets :)

[obsidian yacht]

https://tenor.com/view/t-rex-bite-gif-25572956

[slim dragon]

Which are, in my opinion, the worst iteration of how they could be

[obsidian yacht]

But

Jp references 😦

[slim dragon]

Exactly
With the current system as a rex you'll never want to hunt a galli because that's wasted stomach space
With any of the proposed reworks if you somehow manage to catch a galli as a rex you'd be properly rewarded for it, but that'd still happen super rarely because rex isn't adapted for hunting galli

[haughty shadow]

Desperation would be the reason that a larger carnivore would go for a smaller species, but I entirely understand where you're coming from. Obviously like the bigger the organ, the more nutrients you would get so typically going for smaller species would be useless and a waste of time.

[obsidian yacht]

Also, the idea of certain groups of animals giving certain diets based on size is really bad for smaller carnis that arent able to take on a shant for instance

[slim dragon]

I feel like you didn't understand it fully
Something small like a troodon would not have the meat of animals it can't hunt on its diet

[somber leaf]

I kinda like the current one cuz it makes the game nicely predictable in some ways. What i dont like about it is that it doesn't work very well in practicality

[haughty shadow]

The diet system itself is a cool and unique idea, it just needs to be tweaked or reworked to be a more substantial part of the game and a less complicated and contradicting mechanic

[slim dragon]

It's just a simplified version of current diets, and which hopefully makes more sense (but the bar is low tbh)

[obsidian yacht]

Ima read it again

[haughty shadow]

like putting a a stego on a troodons diet feel so contradicting and just a waste of diet space

[obsidian yacht]

Yeah option one. It doesnt seem good for small hunters

[slim dragon]

Absolutely
However troodons shouldn't either see a vulnerable juvie stego and go "let's not kill it, it's not on our diet"
A carnivore should choose its meals on behalf of what is easiest to kill for it, while also filling its stomach
Not because of an arbitrary list

[obsidian yacht]

Agreed

[haughty shadow]

no completely agree. Maybe the growth of the dinosaur would determine the diet it has? Bigger it grows, fattier the meat

Might be WAY too complicated but would be interesting to see and play around with

[slim dragon]

Troodon diet : Lean meat (obtained on small, runner animals), tough meat (as mentioned before), rich meat (obtained on brawny herbivores of any size)

[haughty shadow]

And maybe each carnivore needs less of a certain type of diet to fill it out

[obsidian yacht]

Oooh ok. Sorry im kind if dense

[slim dragon]

I honestly don't like the idea of diets changing with age
It is a multiplier to their complexity and to how hard they are to grasp as a new player

[obsidian yacht]

So rather than certain kinds of mewt giving certain diets to all, specific carnivores get diet from certain kinds of meat

[haughty shadow]

Yeah yeah ofc. Just a thought but it might make it even more complex to have each different "size" of dinosaur give a different diet

COuld become hard to differentiate between a meidum-large dinosaur

[slim dragon]

It's honestly less complex than have every single dinosaur give a specific type of diet depending of what's eating them

[slim dragon]

I mean, it would still require some UI element to know what type of meat will yield what you're hunting, but it'd still be ages better than the current iteration

[haughty shadow]

Lowkey the diet system is just a pain in general

[slim dragon]

Like
Imagine you're a new player, you have orodromeus on your diet, but you have no idea of what an orodromeus looks like

[somber leaf]

I like the specific diet cuz it encourages the idea of dinos filling in niches but i get the problems around that. I think the system as it is rn sucks but i like the idea of it

[haughty shadow]

I think an advanced menu would look cool. Like hovering over a species in your diet menu or even in a seperate like species list would be cool

[slim dragon]

In only works in a very limited roster, and with a very well balanced population
There is no way it will work with the full roster

[haughty shadow]

Telling you where they typically are found and what they look like as well as weight and other stats

[elfin night]

Rotations!!!!!

I need to not be the only magy player when it releases

[haughty shadow]

You wont be trust. Ill be there with you LMAO

Like I wanna play minmi too but they wont be out for centuries

[somber leaf]

As long as they're weekly and servers are asymmetrical i think rotations would work fine

The only somewhat problem i can think of is that rotations need to be handmade and not random

[haughty shadow]

Would promote people to nest too. Like if that dino isn't in rotation but people are nesting, then people are more inclined to take that dinosaur

[obsidian yacht]

So tell me if I have this idea rightish

Troodon Diet;
Lean meat- Small to medium agile animals
Tough meat- Someone large, meaty animals
Etc*

[slim dragon]

I don't think a single game makes their weekly character rotations random

[haughty shadow]

Though, then comes the problem of certain dinos not coming into rotation for a long time

[somber leaf]

and a black market with real money for eggs

[elfin night]

I just don’t want some playables to end up with 1% pick rate globally which is a real possibility

If they’re gonna make us wait for things that people will play like allo, theri or spino due to other additions, I just think it is necessary for them to have some system or incentive to make all dinosaurs played and not just balancing.

[haughty shadow]

could promote humans more!

[obsidian yacht]

@slim dragon

[slim dragon]

Yeah that's it
Meat types or diet lists don't have to be exactly like this of course

[obsidian yacht]

But the same jist

[somber leaf]

I guess the idea is that troodons will hunt juvis and scavange from other carnivores for the bigger meat types

[slim dragon]

If people pay for that, uh
Good for those who can make money out of nesting idiots in

You could also theoretically have people pay you for carebearing them while they grow a rex, but I don't see people doing that often

[worthy steeple]

#balance-feedback message why do people want maia to become a hunter so badly, no it doesn’t need to hunt tenos and ceras, its maximum should be a dilo pack

[west plank]

Everyone is attacking Maia, the kick will have a defensive benefit for Maia.

[worthy steeple]

it should be good against omnis/dilos.

we already got a huge balance problem where 2-3 maias run around the map and kos everything they see, because we got only few dinos that can actually outrun them.

[worthy steeple]

it doesn’t need a damage increase tho, it’s damage is more than enough considering maia also has 3800 hp

it can take million hits before it dies

[somber leaf]

Nostalgia of terror Maias

[worthy steeple]

maia HT was crazy

[somber leaf]

The Isle under Maia dominance were dark times

[worthy steeple]

• give maia its agility back
• make cooldowns faster
• fix the bug with the stances
• buff the acceleration
• increase the stomp damage

and in exchange make it so it can’t stun or knockdown cera/teno/carno with the shove. but it should be able to do so with the stomp/kick

and we’re getting an amazing omni bully that can only fight things cera/teno sized in quad where it’s slower, so basically only in defense

you may even increase the kick damage, it doesn’t matter anymore, since if cera/teno decide not to fight maia it won’t be able to chase and stun them, so we’re removing the “hunting” element

making maia good against big things in quad mode, good against small things in biped

[steep gazelle]

@outer storm allo probably doesn't come with more than 2.8 tons

[somber leaf]

I never understood Allosaur appeal. I could never recognize it in legacy cuz to me it was literally a generic dinosaur

[tall bronze]

That's actually why I like Allo huehue. Generic bread and butter dinosaur.

[steep gazelle]

evrima's allosaurus will be an omni so that better

[outer storm]

If its 2.8 its gonna be very underpowered. It needs to atleast be able to 1v1 diablo or maia

[outer storm]

It was the perfect dino in legacy because it was strong but also not too long to grow like rex

[somber leaf]

I understand why people would pick it, i dont understand the people who would claim that its their favorite dino

[steep gazelle]

2.8 is not weak at all, mainly because the bleed damage will be absurd

[somber leaf]

Every time i saw an Allo in the distance I was like " i have no idea what this was" cuz to me it looked like it could be anything

it could be a cera, a carno(altho i rarely confused it for a carno), a young rex, a young giga, if its walking it could also be a sucho in the far distance

Also I am happy that we get to custimize our dinos but it makes ot really hard for me to quickly tell apart some dinos, especially carnivores

[steep otter]

2.8 it can destroy Maia with easy, dibble should not lose to a Allo in a 1V1 most of the time anyway.

[elfin night]

Some people will rage

But I think dibble should stand at least some chance vs sucho

Which leaves a single allo out of the question

The 3 ton dibble, of course

[steep otter]

Dibble can fight much larger animals them it thanks to its stun

Ive seen dibbles solo stegos

[elfin night]

Same

[steep otter]

So its possible a dibble is able to kill a sucho

[elfin night]

I think dibble should remain as the Herbi “mid tier” powerhouse

At least for its size

No one else in the herbivore mid tiers can do that besides maybe theri if you wanna leave it there

[steep otter]

Theri is more of the large/semi apex tier

[split epoch]

Dibbles are always in groups, good luck killing one, let alone preventing one from body blocking. Dibble players are generally degenerate.

[elfin night]

Agreed

[slim dragon]

Theri is large-pseudo-semi apex tier

[viscid mica]

@finite shadow

3s to max is a insanely long time Maia isn’t even 3 to max

[finite shadow]

Carnos been 3s to max in the past, plus it’s not like you can’t bite to still deal dmg and drift to keep your momentum

[viscid mica]

Naaaa carno don’t need that much of a debuff nor does it need 55

[finite shadow]

It’s literally not a debuff it’s to incentivise players to be more aggressive and play around their speed boost

[viscid mica]

Na I like current carno beyond some minor kit adjustments I don’t think it needs a aggressive change like that

[sullen sierra]

Nerf the cera. They can just charge every .005 seconds and it sucks

[elfin night]

Here goes the guy who blocked me

And again complaining about dilo speed

[stark knoll]

"Tanky"

half of carno's hp

[viscid mica]

dont fight em they are slow

[random stump]

700 kg dilo
450 kg omni

46.8 km/h omni
47.5 km/h dilo

85 N dilo bite
65 N omni bite

bite omni once, summon two clones, "Outskilled" (Faster, tankier, 1 shots you with ability)

[minor axle]

if you are solo as an omni you arent a real omni smh.

[crystal wharf]

i think fsh has actually blocked every single person on this discord, nobody can react to his messages

[dusky surge]

Except Lunary it seems

[stark knoll]

No I'm blocked too

[dusky surge]

My god

He really takes no prisoners

It’s funny that despite the VAST majority of people dealing with dilo FINE as raptor, the man is CONVINCED that it’s impossible

[warm flax]

I think omni can win in a 1 on 1 against dilo most of the time
once you get a nice pounce stack up the bleed you can easily get away from it

[edgy crow]

[minor axle]

it's a pretty simple, dilo wins with a tree, omni wins if there isnt a tree (I mean, there is a lot more too it, but that's roughly my experience in the matchup).

In a field dilo basically just has to run.

[viscid mica]

Anyone who dvs him is blocked bros got the majority of the people who view balance blocked XD

also new role?

[somber fable]

Not everyone!

[crystal wharf]

dont worry, you'll be blocked by his next one in like 3 days

then he will truly have zero people reacting to his feedback

[somber fable]

Yes definitely, I wonder if spino is also blocked for merely beipi reacting

[edgy crow]

FSH rn

[elfin night]

Some people are just too dumb to even consider the slightest possibility that they may be doing something wrong I guess

This guy is the epitome of garbage raptor mains

Victim complex when a dinosaur is marginally faster despite being so inferior in agility and other secondary stats that matter in balance

Bro can’t trade or outrun something in a straight line: unbalanced and no way to deal with it

[crimson crater]

#balance-feedback message its hitbox is fine

[somber leaf]

bros how do i do that? tag a specific message from a channel

[crimson crater]

hold the message and an option for it will pop up

[somber leaf]

#balance-feedback message like this?

oh nice

anywho... Carno and Dilo having each other high on their diets is a wild suggestion. Carno players literally don't look pass a carno's eyebrows when making suggestions

[crimson crater]

ye

[shrewd jungle]

using "homo" as an insult in the big 25 to get people to agree with you
masterful gambit indeed

[keen plover]

?

oh

just saw

[tropic horizon]

Genius strategy

[dusky surge]

power play

[inner bough]

seems theres a few L

get butthurt

[torn egret]

so troo got ahadow worked again lol.
slower freshspawn speed, growth seems faster, but not seeing much in terms of damage or bleed rework (Not enough on the HT lol)

[cosmic pelican]

https://tenor.com/view/bait-used-to-be-believable-baited-jebaited-bait-i-got-jebaited-gif-1296286127798996733

[elfin night]

Git gud scrub

[worthy steeple]

dude got primal gamer rage

[elfin night]

Omni mains when it is no longer updates 0-5

[lilac leaf]

I personally downvote the diet recommendations just because any player can receive all three diets from any other player as a carnivore, the diet list is kind of useless lol except as a fresh spawn I've always had a much easier time maintaining a carnivore diet than even a herbivore, because herbivores rely on the correct food spawning, would you as a player cannot really effect on your own. but as a carnivore if you know where the hot spots are you will be able to find all 3. That said it is worthy of note, just because something is on your diet does not mean you're intended to hunt the 100% full grown version of that, cano does not do well against adult Diablo but does extremely well against the juvenile and adolescent ones which I think is the intended use of that being on its diet

[carmine tundra]

@finite shadow i hope you know this but carno can still stun teno its just harder to do and if you ram their ass you will take damage

[crimson crater]

#balance-feedback message simple solution to that would be to decrease its run time, your suggestion will just completely ruin it

[grizzled anchor]

@lethal shale Umm where is omniraptor tanky? 😂 If I think about the brawlers in the game raptor is very squishy. It already suffers massively from rubberbanding and weird hitboxes I feel like nerfing its weight by 1/3 would make it a little too squishy. Besides that it doesnt have many good matchups with the current roster anyway.

Just googled real quick a utah raptor was estimated to be around 500kg, so that would be the limit Id personally nerf it to 🤔

[stark knoll]

Omniraptor is a fake dinosaur, and utahraptor is going to be added as a separate one

[crimson crater]

“besides omni dosen’t have many good matchups with the current roster” can’t omni 1 tap 1/3rd of the roster?

[grizzled anchor]

Well if u take things like a hypsi and dryo into account yes but they get onetapped by everything else aswell.
But every bigger animal which would fall more into the raptors niche as a group hunter its very tough. Cera with its vomit stun lock is not a secret, carno with its instant charge spam and what feels like infite stam compared to raptor, diablo with its knockdown (+ weird hitboxes). Raptor is having a tough time imo.

Also if u look at whats planned for the next coming dinosaurs everything is way bigger than a raptor and I think if they dont do anything that raptor will become a rarity to see

[crimson crater]

i take things like galli into account

[grizzled anchor]

I knew that Omniraptor is a fake dinosaur heavily inspired by JP's Velocciraptor model, but didnt know they planned on adding the Utah raptor seperately so I figured it might be a good orientation

[grizzled anchor]

Yes galli is one of those matchups BUT imo if the galli gets pinned its his own fault most of the time. Either not being aware of its surroundings, getting stuck while running or something like that. Galli can easily outrun a raptor so making this matchup not oneshot will result in galli being unhuntable for a raptor.
But u sad 1/3rd of the roster I dont know many other "relevant" matchups that are this one sided.

(relevant meaning actually played playables who do have the ability to engage in PvP so no hypsis for example 😄 )

[crimson crater]

ye just anything 450KG and below

[grizzled anchor]

Theres not many below 450 kg tho 🤔 I dont have an exact idea of every weight of every playable but most under 450kg are very small and oneshot anyway

[worthy steeple]

it’s only galli and juvies basically

[grizzled anchor]

And things like troodon, hypsi and dryo of course 😄

which are basically oneshot anyway since theyre small af

[worthy steeple]

i mean yeah, but they’re all one shot anyway, or grow in no time, not to mention almost nobody actually plays as hypsi/dryo

[crimson crater]

dryo takes an hour to grow fym

[worthy steeple]

and they will get burrow/tree climbing soon so it will be easier to avoid omni

[worthy steeple]

it’s like half an hour lol

[cosmic pelican]

Glazedcwasso crying in the corner rn

[grizzled anchor]

IF more mid sized or upper low sized animals get added then yes the raptor would have many great matchups but from what Ive seen in the near future alot of big dinos are planned

[crimson crater]

nah, not even troodon who is less than half its size take that long

[worthy steeple]

it’s 1 hour 5 minutes with 100% diet buff, you can do 200/300

with gastro and puke+salt lick in the game

[crimson crater]

i’m counting base growth speed

[worthy steeple]

you have to be afk to grow dryo for 1 hour

[cosmic pelican]

Imagine min-maxing your dryo growth bruh

[worthy steeple]

😎

[cosmic pelican]

Crazy work 😭

[grizzled anchor]

I think everyone agrees that some growth speeds are not balanced, maybe dryo is one of those

[worthy steeple]

i grow tenos in hour and a half, puke + salt lick strat is amazing

[cosmic pelican]

Wannabe cerato gameplay

[worthy steeple]

omg so true

[grizzled anchor]

btw did they remove the ability to puke as cera?

[worthy steeple]

no, just spam m2

[crimson crater]

every small tier takes way too long

[grizzled anchor]

not working D:

[worthy steeple]

weird

[grizzled anchor]

I logged into an old cera with full stomach and no diets but puking is not working 🤔

[crimson crater]

are you fully grown

[cosmic pelican]

45 mins hypsi growth to be 1 tapped by a 10kg troodon LOL

[grizzled anchor]

No

[cosmic pelican]

Why does hypsi even have pin vulnerability

[grizzled anchor]

42%

[crimson crater]

yea can’t vomit as a juvi

[worthy steeple]

it’s like 30 minutes at most tho😔

[worthy steeple]

not even tryharding

[cosmic pelican]

https://tenor.com/view/skeptical-futurama-fry-hmmm-i-got-my-eyes-on-you-gif-17101711

[worthy steeple]

i’m honestly fine with tiny tiers growth time, i think something like cera/teno/carno should grow longer

not to mention bigger animals

[crimson crater]

eh

some small tiers just take way too long like omni

[worthy steeple]

fair, but i don’t really want that to be reduced, especially with 300% growth rate bonus in the game

[cosmic pelican]

Herrera should take longer to grow ngl

[worthy steeple]

last time i grew an omni it took little over an hour

but it’s a bit rng since if you can’t find other juvies to take organs you will grow slower

[crimson crater]

9/10 you never get it, sanctuaries for carnivores is needed more than ever.

[cosmic pelican]

Rat ai save us 🙏

[worthy steeple]

you won’t get 300 for sure, but something around 200 is doable, tho i agree with sanctuary ai

[grizzled anchor]

Alr didnt know that never tried it before 😄

[grizzled anchor]

Yes please! Sanctuaries have been so useless for carnivores since their release

And nowadays even for herbis at least in my experience 😄

[worthy steeple]

my idea is to make juvie stage not just a short episode in dinos life, but to create a whole ecosystem with the juvies in giant sanctuaries, increase the growth time and make them spend time there surviving with other juvies

[grizzled anchor]

I had a similar idea thats why I made the suggestion in the ai-feedback channel which would just improve the juvi experience even with not many juvis around. I miss the juvi battles I had in the past they were some of the most fun fights I had

[worthy steeple]

i don’t like an idea that i can easily grow a teno in an hour, it’s lame, i want an adventure, i want to spend time as a juvie engaging with other juvies in “juvie only” ecosystem

[hasty coyote]

My only issue is that they need to fix how bad some of the attacks are as a juvie, like pachy ram just doesn’t move you half the time

[worthy steeple]

yeah lol

[worthy steeple]

that’s for sure

juvie teno feels clunky for some reason

[hasty coyote]

To be fair, teno is one of the smaller dinos. So I think it having an easy grow is fine. Stuff like apexes should def have a long juvie phase.

[grizzled anchor]

I dont like the current system where u hit sub adult at 30-40% already and almost skip juvi entirely since u hit adolescent very very quick

[worthy steeple]

fair, but i want universal growth time increase for everything, its just too easy to grow a dino nowdays

[grizzled anchor]

exclude troodons from that they already have a hard time until they reach their poison stage 😄

[hasty coyote]

Eh, I can see that as like a sever option, but a universal growth time increase at this point would make some dinos obscenely long and hard to grow. Like good luck growing a juvie cera without plenty of abandoned bodies, free food ai, and never being seen by something bigger

[obtuse ocean]

Juvi stage is the easy part, you make almost zero sounds and can avoid most by hiding. The hard part is when u start getting into adole etc, stuff can actually see u : P

[hasty coyote]

Yeah you’re small enough to hide, but not strong enough to hunt well, while also growing and DRAINING hunger. That should be the hard part.

[worthy steeple]

yeah for sure ahah, troodons is fine

[somber leaf]

I am confused about the Omni vision

[obtuse ocean]

Yea, food and survival should def be hard. Hell i even have problem growing herrera now as juvi

[somber leaf]

Do you want it as a hit and run bleeder or as an overwhelming swarmer/gang upper

[grizzled anchor]

Well its a group hunter so a bit of both I guess. A big pack of raptors could swarm its prey while a smaller group would rely more on hit and run and bleeding it out. It also depends on the prey animal, swarming something like a stego which can potentionally oneshot a raptor is harder and needs a more cautious playstyle than lets say a teno which while dangerous is way easier to swarm as a group.

[stark knoll]

The former with few or no pack members and the latter with many

[grizzled anchor]

Also depends on if its a solo prey animal or a herd too

[grizzled anchor]

But in both cases it needs better stamina since thats its number 1 tool for fighting aswell as movement, and the bite cooldown is just unnecessary

And if u can believe people on this discord beipi has more bleed than omni which is ridiculous 😄

[minor axle]

Yeah, if it’s remotely dark the herbivores just can’t see anything, and for an unknowable reason the sanctuary shrooms randomly can’t be sniffed. Why the change from everything but grazing grass? I dunno

[elfin night]

@tall bronze sentenced to hunting ai as a 13kph juvenile troodon

[steep gazelle]

Stop everything, the devs are doing their job completely opposite to what the community has been asking for. Oh, I love this xd

[haughty grotto]

@lethal shale I heard ya out
But 3 omnis not being able to pin a cera or carno is too massive of a nerf to justify that weight reduction

[lethal shale]

wdym? i said their grapple capabilities would be the same, so even after the weight reduction, 3 would be able to pin a cera or carno

[haughty grotto]

You want to decrease weight threshold to 75% instead of 101% then?

[lethal shale]

dunno the exact numbers, but whatever it takes for a 400kg omni to be able to grapple the same stuff a 450kg one can

[haughty grotto]

So around 90%

Would be okay with that

[lethal shale]

yeah if the grapple capabilities are untouched, then thats fine

yeah 90% would be good

[worthy veldt]

Raptors are laughable in combat. There needs to be something that makes them slightly more competitive. Pounce is main weapon, but with stam drain so fast, and being able to be glitched into trees/water, just seems like the smarter choice is just carno or cerra.

[elfin night]

(I agree that getting stuck or glitched after a pounce should be fixed urgently)

The omni victim complex is insane brug

People need to do 1000 damage with a 60% stam pounce I guess

Or do not use their agility in combat

Which is part of why omni is such a popular PvP sweatlord pick in evrima

[minor axle]

nah omni suffers, I know because I inflict pain upon them whenever I meet them

[edgy crow]

#balance-feedback message

[elfin night]

Imma be real

I wouldn't mind some slight omni buffs like a little to the bite speed

but people saying it is unplayable or one of the worst carnivores gotta suck it up and learn to play

omni is still a consistent and reliable pick even for solo players

just fix bugs and it will be much better

[worthy steeple]

yes. in fact omni is one of the best.

a lot of new players started to play evrima recently, i guess that’s why we’re getting more and more unhinged feedbacks that have nothing to do with the actual game

[elfin night]

like man

[worthy steeple]

everything is weak and “unplayable” when you start, you just need to learn, evrima combat is not just run and bite, it’s complicated

(sorry cera players)

[elfin night]

as a solo omni you can take on stuff like most grown juveniles, sub carnos/ceras, herras if you catch them, even dilos with the element of surprise...

And then the grapple is crazy strong with coordination

[worthy steeple]

exactly

[elfin night]

it does its job JUST. FINE

Of course without accounting for bugs

[worthy steeple]

not to mention everything >450kg just insta dies to you

[elfin night]

it is not meant to go and kill a cera with a single grapple because that would be cheap as hell

[worthy steeple]

yes, i’d say desync is the thing that ruins troodon/omni life the most

[edgy crow]

see: #general-feedback message

[worthy steeple]

yeah, people just don’t realize that counterplay actually exists

tho is obvious tbh..

just walk away.

[iron tree]

Omni is supposed to be a glass cannon ya goofball

you've to be very careful. Extremely aware of your own mistakes as every mistake could be your last one

[minor axle]

it can't be the worst because troodon exists

[elfin night]

True

[viscid mica]

Real

[worthy veldt]

yeah sure, but when a Diablo can just mud pit camp 8 raptors, and due to slow stam regens/weak health the diablo wins even after being pounced 20+ its not longer a "glass cannon" just glass.

[elfin night]

Why even try to hunt something anywhere near a mudpool

The same would happen if they were carnos, dilos or troodons

And dibble can only take 3 full stam damage pounces before dying

Aaaaaand pounces do slow down the dibble and passively drain stam even without bucking and with tactile endurance which is laughably strong

[cosmic pelican]

TROODON ISN- ISN- ISNT BAAAAD

https://tenor.com/view/noo-gif-12326737461245487165

(It is 😭)

[iron tree]

just don't hunt mud campers

[elfin night]

^

Literally any carnivore would have a tough time in that scenario

[burnt oar]

i see this game is still having the same issues

[elfin night]

which are...?

[burnt oar]

cera is still needing a nerf

[minor axle]

Cera needs to be executed via guillotine smh

[elfin night]

somewhat, yeah

I don't think it needs much of a nerf honestly

[neon willow]

Solution: add guillotine model to game in next patch

[elfin night]

I want to trust QA and the devs that they won't give in to the casual complaints and make cera garbage

because cera's kit as a whole really isn't that problematic. It's just a current roster thing and the charged bite mostly

[minor axle]

Personally I think the vomit sickness just needs to be changed to not be instant so it’s a punishment to people wanting to fight them, not an in fight mechanic (unless the fight is long Ofc)

[neon willow]

Based on how Utah and carno have both oscillated a lot, I don't have much hope

[minor axle]

Make it so, ya know, it’s actually like getting infected(has to ramp up for a bit as it overwhelms your natural defenses)

[elfin night]

at least carno isn't as terrible for the game as it used to be

and omni mostly suffers due to bugs rn

game will probably become increasingly balanced with more playables since omni and carno no longer need the tools to take on stegos

game currently is honestly a lot more balanced and bearable than it used to be 1-2 years ago, or like in update 3 or 4

[edgy crow]

just got out of a fight with 3 omnis as a 50% maia

I yearn for the biped mode turning to be brought back

[minor axle]

I mostly played towards evrima launch (I started in legacy Ofc, but I’m talking about evrima) so the teno and Omni only era (horrendously unbalanced), then I played a good bit when deino dropped and then didn’t play for ages

[worthy steeple]

just turn in quad and switch to biped after

[minor axle]

So I’m not super familiar with the bugs of the just a couple years ago or so

[edgy crow]

OH YEA LET ME TELL YOU ABOUT THIS FIGHT

[worthy steeple]

lmao

[elfin night]

it wasn't just bugs, stuff like carno before its current state was terrible

apex carno was super toxic and broken

[minor axle]

I vaguely remember Carno being a menace, but I think I had moved on from teno to deino by then, so wasn’t very affected

(Mostly remember due to all the complaining I saw)

[elfin night]

it was a big problem

[minor axle]

Early deino was peak (it looked like an alligator farm on good days)

[elfin night]

if you didnt group you were cooked

[minor axle]

Either someone got the stego, or more likely the stego got them and you ate the fallen soldier.

The grouping days (not every day ofc) culled active (hunting) cannibalism because if you started attacking you got jumped.

I hated that map but deino did feel more interesting, though probably just because it had so many players at the time.

Rn I’d prefer to play beipi any day of the week

[steep furnace]

@lethal shale im gonna have to disagree. omni should keep its weight and have those buffs. in my humble opinion it feels like omni gets 3 shot by everything. its size is perfect for its niche. omni wont be able to pin near as many things

[lethal shale]

What won’t Omni be able to pin exactly?

Stuff that it can now and wouldn’t then

[edgy crow]

in fact it will be able to pin more

[lethal shale]

How so

[stark knoll]

@mild pumice It can already fly for 15+ minutes and it's still getting thermals next update, I don't think it needs more

[steep furnace]

unless using grapple it wont be able to pin carno cera or teno

[edgy crow]

it'll be able to pin more small tiers in the future

[lethal shale]

???

If you even read the suggestion you would’ve known that the grapple capabilities would remain the same

Whatever Omni can grapple or pin at 450kg, it’ll still be able to do the same at 400 kgs

[lethal shale]

Imo it just needs a stam regen buff

Ptera should not take longer to regen stam than the entire roster 😭

[stark knoll]

Eh

Galli has the same regen time as its sprint time, ptera's regen time can be less than a quarter of its flight time

[edgy crow]

wait I misunderstood...

ANYWAY. 400-350kg omni is more balanced and makes more sense for its niche, as well as model wise

like you're telling me omni is a whole 275kg heavier than herrera? no way

[lethal shale]

Yeeahhh but you also have to take in account how you need superior flight AND stamina management skills to actually be able to fly that long. Any mistake and you’ll burn through your stamina in seconds, which is awful for beginners who think pteranadon would be a good beginner (which imo as a spectator cam, it should) but it isn’t with how complicated flying stam management is

[stark knoll]

I don't think it's complicated whatsoever, genuinely

[steep furnace]

not at 350 tho. 400kg would be a unnecessary nerf to a already fragile playable.

[stark knoll]

Flying straight up will burn your stam, sprint flight will burn your stam

[lethal shale]

Well it’s not what a first time player excited to try a flying dinosaur because it seems easy would expect

[mild pumice]

flying for 15 in a glide isnt what im talking about. Have you tried engaging non ai... how much stamina did you need? how many times did you sit during that engagement?

[stark knoll]

Making it easier for beginners just makes it even more of a menace in the hands of anyone that can fly it

[mild pumice]

no other dino needs stamina to traverse like PT does

[stark knoll]

That's exactly why it's getting reworked to have better ground capabilities

AND better flight capabilities

It's being overhauled entirely

And even when you engage non-ai you can still stay in the air for ages

[lethal shale]

Excited to see what they do with it

Glad it can instantly fly now

[mild pumice]

why would the flight dino need to be better at ground, instead of being better in the air.... air currents doesnt address the pvp concern i expressed.

[stark knoll]

Because, like you said, you want the flight dino to interact with things. Everything else is a land dino

Ptera isn't built to be a pvp dino, either. We'll have to wait and see what its capabilities are once the rework releases

[elfin night]

@mild pumice git gud. ptera stam is goated

also yeah what lunary said

doesnt matter cuz rework soon

[edgy crow]

#balance-feedback message do what balancecord does best and tear me to shreds :3

[steep gazelle]

@edgy crow Maia already has a lot of difficulty hitting the stun while running and taking down a cerato, there is no need to make Maia even more incapable than he already is.

[edgy crow]

key word knockdown, not stun

there's a difference

[steep gazelle]

Making the bipedal mode spin better would help, it's no longer necessary to make Maia unable to take down Ceratos

[edgy crow]

that's what I said to do

[steep gazelle]

"maybe make it unable to knockdown ceras so the matchup between them is more fair?"

[eager saddle]

no, because this one seems more fair

your omni one just sucked

[edgy crow]

there's a difference between knocking down and stunning

knocking down is where the animal actually falls over and has to get up

stunning is where the animal gets shaken up for a bit

[steep gazelle]

My god, you think I don't know? Maia can only take down a cerato if she uses her STUN ATTACK while running in a straight line.

[edgy crow]

I'M NOT SAYING TO REMOVE THE STUN

I'M SAYING TO REMOVE THE KNOCKDOWN

[steep gazelle]

Bro

Maia can knockdown a cerato if she uses her STUN ATTACK IN BIPED MODE IN A STRAIGHT LINE. Why is this so hard to understand? Xd

That's what I'm talking about, removing the knockdown that Maia has, which is already very difficult to hit, would only make him even more useless.

Remove the part about "maybe remove the knockdown that Maia can cause to Cerato" and your suggestion will be greatly approved.

[edgy crow]

it'll still be able to stun tho

[steep gazelle]

Yes?

[bright tide]

so is the cannibal mutation fixed or jus on hordetest

[obsidian yacht]

@dusky surge May I ask why you don't like my suggestion?

[dusky surge]

i think ptera's biteforce is plenty given its size and niche, first of all, and frankly don't see why it needs more combat capability as an animal clearly not designed as hyper combative

[obsidian yacht]

well it's getting combat adjustments whether we like it or not so I figured at least the health buff was a good call for that

[steep gazelle]

#balance-feedback message @dense current The cerato's charged bite should only be for defense, making it slower when using it and also adding a stam cost would help make it less op

[dense current]

i agree, i think it should be a defensive dino

[steep gazelle]

I honestly don't know what went through the devs' heads to make Cerato so broken. It has a buff to resist bleed and fractures naturally and near carcasses this increases, It has a skill with 350 base damage and 450 if it has the 3 mutations, it has a vomit that reduces 80% of its status and it also has a stun

A skill with an overwhelming reward but no cost xd

#balance-feedback message @languid sparrow Hasn't Carnotaurus been nerfed enough? Xd

[crimson crater]

cera does need a nerf but you’re really exaggerating it in your feedback, it does not have good speed nor can take on a competent stego

[steep gazelle]

He needs a nerf to his charged bite, add a stam cost and make him slower to use.

[crimson crater]

stamina cost seems unnecessary

[steep gazelle]

No, it is necessary. Cerato has passive and near-husk buffs, an ability with high reward but no cost or consequence for using it.

Do you think this is fair and completely balanced?

[crimson crater]

slowing it down wouldn’t be enough?

[steep gazelle]

One of these 2 suggestions would already be good, either the stam cost or decreasing the speed

[crimson crater]

stamina cost wouldn’t work on it

[near knoll]

Wouldn't it be wonderful if reinforced tendons also applied to pouncing

it would solve the troodon and omni stam problem lol

[worthy steeple]

just slow it down a bit when it’s charging, the problem solved

[near knoll]

I agree with that, either that or it uses more stamina when charge biting

[worthy steeple]

hmmm

[crimson crater]

#balance-feedback message people will suggest anything just to bring it down

cool-down on the charged bite ain’t it

[worthy steeple]

yeah that makes cera too vulnerable

[crimson crater]

understatement

[steep otter]

Make so when cera is charged biting it cant sprint at full speed, 35km max

[steep gazelle]

post this in balance feedback, i like this suggestion

[iron tree]

"buff" and "cera" do not belong in the same sentence #balance-feedback message

[fierce jewel]

Exactly, why would we need a cera buff 😭

[lean yacht]

Tell me you only played cera and you suck at it without telling me youre playing cera 🤡

[elfin night]

@outer storm why those 3???

If anything cera needs a few nerfs

Carno might need some tiny buffs but otherwise it works as it should

Ptera is getting a rework and even then it works just fine

[edgy crow]

#balance-feedback message damage muts already ONLY affect lmb attacks

[steep gazelle]

No, man. Cerato has an exception, the damage mutations affect its charged bite.

[elfin night]

can we see it somehow?

[outer storm]

Cera is weak can barely kill a teno

[elfin night]

???

Don't turn your in game incompetence into an objective game issue. Cera only needs 4 bites to kill a teno if all of them are headshots

and teno is meant to be a good brawler. Cera is a more defensive corpse bully that is also 300 kilograms lighter

of course teno is gonna have the upper hand

but even then cera can destroy it if it plays properly

it deserves no more privileges

[outer storm]

You need atleast 2 cera's to kill 1 teno so I dont see how thats balanced

Teno can just alt left click and cera is done

In general carnivores in this game are much weaker than their real life versions. So not only cera but carno pteranodon all need buffs

We have 3 apex herbivores and 0 carnivores to match them which is a huge issue

[edgy crow]

alt left click? the claw attack?

[edgy crow]

3 apex herbis?

[outer storm]

Sry i meant right click the tail slam

[outer storm]

Yes

[edgy crow]

name them

[outer storm]

Diablo miaia and stego obv

[elfin night]

IM TELLING YOU, see the numbers instead of remaining deadset in some random malding

Cera only needs 4 bites. One, two, three, four!!! That's all you need with headshots and cera has crazy bleed resist too.

And the tail slam is just cc, barely does any damage as of now

We do not need cera, the easiest carnivore to grow by a long shot to be buffed when rex and allo is about to arrive and it can still very much hunt everything else effectively

[elfin night]

what are your standards for apex?

[edgy crow]

saying maia is an apex is laughable

[outer storm]

Cera getting 4 headshots is very unrealistic in general, do to teno's huge body hitbox and tiny head hitbox

[elfin night]

real

[outer storm]

Strong animal which doesnt have a carnivore match

[elfin night]

alright then, 5 body shots and the teno now has vomit sickness AND reduced damage.

[edgy crow]

maia is extremely clunky to play, it is very difficult to hit ANYTHING when you're in biped mode because its turning is so abysmal

[iron tree]

@worthy steeple 😭

[outer storm]

Teno is atleast somewhat matched by cera (barely) but the 3 apexes completely dominate

[elfin night]

Deino being able to one tap all of them technically:

Also, by that standard, apexes wouldn't exist ig since trike is gonna have rex as a match

[iron tree]

me when the pseudo medium sized scavenger can't take on apexes

[edgy crow]

maia DOES NOT completely dominate

in fact its in a pretty bad spot right now (although hordetesting apparently buffed it)

[elfin night]

LITERALLY

[warm cloak]

Dieno

[elfin night]

LIKE BRO

It's a damn CERA

A CERATOSAURUS

[outer storm]

Exactly they are apexes

Provining my point lol

[outer storm]

No

[elfin night]

1300 kilograms and a dedicated kit to be a corpse bully and scavenger

Ofc it isn't gonna have an easy time soloing a damn teno bruh

[edgy crow]

explain to me how maia "dominates"

[outer storm]

Deino absolutely does not count

[outer storm]

No terrestial carnivore can kill it solo

[iron tree]

yeah but you're ignoring the fact cera is not supposed to hunt

[iron tree]

Cera, carno and dilo can absolutely maul a maia

[elfin night]

dilos destroy maia

[edgy crow]

complete lie

[elfin night]

two dilos can easily take on anything at night that isn't a very good dibble or an adult stego

[elfin night]

are you just that bad/clueless or actually just desperately latching onto any argument

[iron tree]

that post reminds me of the "cera should be an equal to dibble"

[elfin night]

maia is so mid rn

[outer storm]

Only when they outnumber

[outer storm]

So what is supposed to hunt herbis then?

[edgy crow]

again tho, apparently it's been buffed on the ht

can't test it tho

[elfin night]

and cera isn't meant to go soloing herbivores dedicated to brawling by itself

you could make an argument it is not really fair that the largest land carni is cera/carno and we have dibble and steg, but we are gonna get that fixed very soon

[iron tree]

large carnivores

[elfin night]

and buffing an already A+ or S tier dinosaur is not the answer

[outer storm]

Such as?

[edgy crow]

allo, rex, etc

all very close in the pipeline

[elfin night]

dilo packs
omni packs
competent carnos at least in pairs
competent ceras
some good herras
trodoon packs

in the current roster

[outer storm]

None of which exist in the game

[elfin night]

and we're getting rex and allo very soon, followed by austro and more importantly bary

[outer storm]

Notice how they are all "packs"

[iron tree]

Allosaurus, Albertosaurus, Suchomimus, Tyrannosaurus, Giganotosaurus, Spinosaurus and Acrocanthosaurus

[elfin night]

rex is like two months away from releasing fully into the game

[outer storm]

And which of those exist?

[iron tree]

all of them

[outer storm]

Where? Please enlighten me

Id love to play alberto rn

[iron tree]

To my knowledge all of said species are valid

[outer storm]

So we will talk about it when it comes to the game

[edgy crow]

maybe making a cera capable of very easily soloing a teno is stupid and not good for balancing ?

just a thought

[outer storm]

It's necessary for balance

[iron tree]

jokes aside, rex will drop very soon

[outer storm]

Sure bro

[iron tree]

it literally isn't

[iron tree]

It'll literally be in the current hordetest 😭

[outer storm]

Ok but its not going to release into the actual game

[elfin night]

yeah, because I agree that the largest herbivores dont really have an equal match 1v1

But buffing cera is flat out idiotic, I'm sorry. They can do their job just fine and even gang up on all herbis but competent stegos on their own and we really don't need it to be more prevalent

Cera already has like a 50% pick rate on average easily. No need to make the game far more unbalanced just because your corpse bully hyena cannot solo a teno easily

[iron tree]

it will release after the HT has ended

source.

[elfin night]

give it a month or two at most, and then all problems will instantly fade

[outer storm]

Cera has a 50% pick rate because its the only somewhat decent land carnivore rn

[outer storm]

I doubt that tbh. Most likely its gonna be a few months after hordetest before we see t rex. Dondi said himself he is very picky about rex

When rex, allo, and spino release than sure u guys are all right

But for now we dont have any carnivores to hunt herbis

[elfin night]

insane lie brother

Herra is so much more viable in terms of survivability, omni and dilo both have extremely oppressive 1v1 or pack hunting abilities and carno is a total menace for anything smaller than itself

[edgy crow]

dilo is arguably more OP than cera

[iron tree]

why the hell would they hold rex back after dropping it in the HT

[elfin night]

dilo is a MONSTER in the current game and HT

[edgy crow]

dilo needs to bite you once at night and then it can just spam rmb nowhere near you to kill you through hallucinations

[outer storm]

Im not talking about survival rate im talking about ability to hunt herbivores

[iron tree]

I'd not go this far

[outer storm]

Most players like to hunt so thats why they play carni

[edgy crow]

potential wise it absolutely is

[elfin night]

dilo and omni are just as good as cera if anything

[iron tree]

Dilo is venomous and supposed to be a terrifying hunter

[edgy crow]

its hypothetically far better than cera

[outer storm]

I actually agree but most people still pick cera because dilo can be 1 shot by most things

[elfin night]

and you are not talking about that when you say cera is the only decent pick

Being a good carnivore isn't just about how good you can kill 20% of the playerbase

[iron tree]

Cera is supposed to be a defensive scavenger. But it is good at everything atm

[elfin night]

realistically only stego and deino one shot dilo

[edgy crow]

again, you can sit back after getting purple stage and just spam rmb

[elfin night]

also herra ig

[outer storm]

Diablo?

[iron tree]

diablo can kill it in a full headshot combo

[elfin night]

you can survive getting knocked over and hit a few times

[outer storm]

I dont think so lol

[iron tree]

well

[elfin night]

yeah you can unless it does knockdown into sparring double headshot

[elfin night]

the numbers dont lie

[iron tree]

if the dibble lands body hits it survives

[outer storm]

In most cases its a 1 shot due to stun

Even then

[iron tree]

I mean the dilo won't be able to keep fighting anyway

[outer storm]

If u get hit by a diablo u are leaving the fight lol

[elfin night]

either way, two dilos obliterate a single dibble at night with minimal effort.

[outer storm]

Dilo needs to hit you dozens of times while diablo needs to hit u once or twice

[elfin night]

that is so fake

dilo hits you once at night and now it can stand back and deal +1k damage spamming rmb with zero skill

[outer storm]

1k damage?

Are u fr

[elfin night]

all the clones together deal more than that

yes it is factual

[outer storm]

Gonna main dilo then

[elfin night]

what a meta slave lol

[outer storm]

I just want herbivores to suffer

[elfin night]

scrub gameplay

[iron tree]

if the dibble sucks

[elfin night]

herbis are more skilled than the average carni will ever be

[outer storm]

Tell them to the stego+diablo*maia death squads

[iron tree]

I would consider myself as one of the best dibble players

[outer storm]

Sure bro

[iron tree]

2 dilos are quite easy

[elfin night]

in practice yeah, I didn't specify I meant stats

[outer storm]

Average herbi gameplay is right click to 1 shot lol

[elfin night]

like their damage

[iron tree]

ah yeah

[iron tree]

cera has to hold down a damn button

[outer storm]

Atleast its not a one shot

[iron tree]

oh yeah, it's a two shot! My bad

[outer storm]

What animal can a cera 2 shot pls explain

[elfin night]

cera: hold down a button and release it when you're close, win
herra: (on most basic level) sit on a tree one shot someone
omni: rmb and you pin someone, win
dilo: bite someone once and spam rmb for 3-4 minutes from literally 500m away, win
deino: run in a straight line with no care about stealth and rmb, win

[iron tree]

dilos and smaller

[outer storm]

Wrong on all aspects

[elfin night]

anything that has 1k health or less

[elfin night]

care to elaborate even though you didnt even know about dilo's ability

[outer storm]

As someone who plays herbivore and carno, herbivore is easy mode lol

[elfin night]

for basic survival yeah

[outer storm]

I almost never die as herbi

I just get bored and kill myself eventually

[iron tree]

Herbivores should have an easier time than carnivores

[elfin night]

but dibble, stego, maia and teno have higher floor and ceiling than dilo or cera

[outer storm]

Theres nothing to do as herbi really because the game is so easy

[outer storm]

Opposite

[iron tree]

they should be stronger than their carnivorous counterpart

[outer storm]

Herbivore gameplay is supposed to be "prey" gameplay like in real life

[iron tree]

but why

[outer storm]

Because its realistic

And the isle is supposed to be realistic

[iron tree]

if herbivores are weak and not fun nobody will play them = no "prey"

[outer storm]

Opposite actually. I know many people who like to play the "underdog"

[elfin night]

oh god no, not this bs discussion again

If you actually want to turn playable characters with agency and the same value as carnivores into glorified resources for other players, just leave

[outer storm]

Maybe you should leave because thats the direction the isle is heading in lol

[elfin night]

it's not at all

[outer storm]

When rex and allo come out its over for herbis

[elfin night]

and ig you will not try to support that with evidence

[outer storm]

Lol wait till my rex 1 shots ur dibble

[elfin night]

not at all? what makes you think that?

[iron tree]

also, herbivores are usually always adapted to either defend themselves and overcome their predator or to simply run away.

[elfin night]

mfw dibble is literally 6-7 kph faster than adult rex

[iron tree]

The Isle legacy is a good example why carnivores shouldn't be stronger than herbivores

[outer storm]

Rex will have ambush

[outer storm]

More like the opposite

[edgy crow]

I think we should nerf carnis actually

[iron tree]

I've to hold down 2 buttons to survive your rex

[elfin night]

I am betting it wont last for long, so spotting it soon enough will do the trick

[outer storm]

Legacy was balanced

[iron tree]

https://tenor.com/view/skull-gif-23663947

[elfin night]

carnis are lame normie stuff (other than herra, I love my scaly monkey)

[outer storm]

Lol ill just pick green in skin creator

Get ready to be 1 shot

[edgy crow]

herrera is unique

[iron tree]

Legacy had the worst balance oat

[iron tree]

I dunno man but I think I can hear a nine ton predator charging at me

[edgy crow]

I can't wait until Rex is released so that cera is nerfed and stego is buffed

[outer storm]

Im pretty sure rex will have more stamina?

[iron tree]

💀

[outer storm]

Or idk

[iron tree]

btw

[outer storm]

Not gonna happen broski

[iron tree]

herbis will have the upper hand against rex

Stego can kill a rex in 3 sprinting swings or in 2 sprinting swings and a normal swing if all of the hits are head shots

[elfin night]

If rex gets the ambush, it is an earned one shot

But herbis aren’t gonna be helpless at all. Helpless would imply that they cannot fight against things faster than them or flee when the opponent is stronger. And there’s no excitement at all in feeling helpless

Or that they don’t have any alternate option if they can’t do either, like how herra gets hard countered by galli but it can climb to escape

For example, subadult deino at 2-3 tons gets killed in 5-8 bites by an 8 ton full adult while also getting walked down by it. Theres no excitement there, just frustration if you feel like the game is wasting your time with a cheap death

[outer storm]

Ok what about stego lol gonna be obliterated

Too slow to escape

[elfin night]

It might be able to hold its own

[iron tree]

#balance-feedback-discussion message

[elfin night]

Don’t see it that far fetched

Stego with its +2k damage cc headshot power swing wouldn’t look stupid fending off one adult rex

[outer storm]

Still rex would win 60% of the time I think

If rex gets headshots and stego only gets tail shots

Also rex has a crush ability supposedly

[elfin night]

Will likely be limited somehow

[elfin night]

If stegos are garbo, sure I guess

Either way stego will more than likely have the tools to survive both rex and trike

[iron tree]

that's why stego has to keep its head away from the giant jaws of a nine ton predator

if a stego is too silly to keep its tail between the rex and its head it deserves to die

[outer storm]

But rex is supposed to be an ambush predator, so most likely it will have a head start

[iron tree]

an ambush is never guaranteed

I really hope trike can easily overpower a rex in a head on head fight

So rex has to ambush trikes to get the upper hand

[edgy crow]

don't call me that

[edgy crow]

trike being datamined to be 2km/h faster than stego moment

[elfin night]

I mean, if trike gets even worse damage reduction in the head than dibble (let’s say 50% reduction), it would imply that facetanking a trike and killing it would mean rex can put up with a trade vs cama or shant

Never gonna happen. I am certain trike keeping its back facing away is gonna win

[elfin night]

Yeah I know, crazy

[iron tree]

hopefully

[elfin night]

If it gets the ambush as a predator that large, it deserves the kill ngl

But other than that I don’t think a random adult rex pulling up in the open is gonna be very successful at anything but dying to cannibals or kos trikes

[edgy crow]