balance-feedback-discussion

[edgy crow]

but you did call bubulblu bad... weird

[dusky surge]

based on the fact you didn't understand its main weaknesses i dont think that was a far-off claim

[dusky surge]

LMAO TRUE HE DID

[crimson crater]

yea we can and this is where my reasoning stems from. i’ve played dibble and it honestly feels like easy mode

[dusky surge]

Feels harder than cera tbh LMAO

Cerato is so braindead easy it hurts. Easy to grow, easy to sustain, easy to fight with, easy to do basically everything with

its part of the reason i prefer carno significantly

[crimson crater]

same guy who didn’t even know how vomit locking works btw^ but i don’t go around saying u don’t play cera

[edgy crow]

I can screenshot messages and use snipping tool too

[crimson crater]

based on this, am i far-off

[slim dragon]

yes

[edgy crow]

feels like you entirely missed the point

[dusky surge]

yea so you're allowed to call people bad but if anyone does it to you it becomes a big deal

that's really funny lmao

[glossy elbow]

they already explained this

[dusky surge]

pretty sure there's a word for that, starts with H

[edgy crow]

[slim dragon]

Helicopters
Damn I hate them so much

[crimson crater]

i don’t base it on assumptions, he explicitly stated that.
there’s a clear difference

[slim dragon]

I didn't say I was bad

[crimson crater]

i feel like we’re getting off-topic here

[crimson crater]

you implied so

[slim dragon]

No

[edgy crow]

no they didn't what are you on

[crimson crater]

idk about you but saying a raptor can be a menace without dibble friends or abusing terrain against, that sounds like you’re bad

[slim dragon]

Maybe I should have used the word "problem" so it feels less like I've been 1v1ed by raptors my entire life to you

[edgy crow]

also "explicitly stated" and "you implied so"

which is it lol

[crimson crater]

i take this as explicitly stated but apparently he didn’t mean it literally so implications then

[dusky surge]

So did you

[crimson crater]

l

[crimson crater]

when

[dusky surge]

When you stated things about dibble that I'd assume only someone with little experience would state

Again, the "implication of incompetence" falls upon the observer here, so I can easily use the exact same argument as you use to state Bulbulblu is bad. You made a statement I think means you're bad, thus you are

Unless we agree such a line of reasoning is absurd

[crimson crater]

what did i state about dibble that was far-off the truth?

[dusky surge]

"dibble makes up for the lack of agility with that drift and sparring mode"

sparring mode does jack diddly squat for dibble's inability to defend its flanks, it's excrutiatingly slow

[crimson crater]

when running forward yea. you can move sideways with it and adjust yourself so that opponents can’t get to your flanks easily, par that with that insane drift and its more than enough compensation for the lack of agility

funny we got here somehow from “allo will be OP i have a feeling” LMAO

[maiden temple]

Spar mode is fantastic to make sure you always face your enemy. It's only inadequate if you're fighting a group of 3 or more

Duos always end up taking turns attacking so as long as you're facing one, you know and control which one will attack you, making it easier to plan your next attack

I still experience dibble (and cera) attacks having a longer range than their heads though, so that's something to complain about!

[iron tree]

I love how people complain about dibble even though you can w+shift away

[slim dragon]

you can do WHAT ???

[iron tree]

W+shift

Congratulations you survived the diabloceratops

[slim dragon]

How do you do that

[iron tree]

You hold down w and shift

Isle players should try it sometimes

[slim dragon]

But when I do that my dino just runs towards the diabloceratops and I die

[crimson crater]

same thing could be said about cerato too yk

[iron tree]

You to adjust your camera a tiny bit

[iron tree]

Unlike dibble cerato can actually catch up to things

[crimson crater]

no it can’t

its slower than pretty much the whole roster and dosen’t have the best run time

[iron tree]

It can catch up to pachies (especially if the cera is using mutations) and it's as fast as teno

And it's faster than hypsi too

So yeah, cera can catch up to things

[crimson crater]

i really don’t understand some people. i have had no issues pressing shift + W away from ceras as a teno or pachy.
speed mutations destroy the balance in general not just for cerato

[dusky surge]

but yet when a herbivore overrelies on tactical endurance, that means the herbivore needs to be nerfed

[slim dragon]

but~~ yet when a herbivore overrelies on tactical endurance, that means~~ the herbivore needs to be nerfed

[crimson crater]

it dosen’t.

most of its attacks don’t take stamina

[dusky surge]

every herbivore that's bigger than a pachy relies on these mutations. that was the point i was making

[crimson crater]

only stego

[dusky surge]

not at all lol

[iron tree]

Dibble doesn't really rely on it but it can get in clutch sometimes

[crimson crater]

never felt the need to run it when playing dibble, that’s just me though.

[viscid mica]

You over estimate textiles value for large species

It’s far stronger on small ones

Stego barely gets anything from it

Dibble same

Teno probably gets best value

It’s certainly strong but it’s not a must run you can get away without it without massive issue

Gastro is far more of a must run with how insanely slow healing is

If I do run tactile on dibble it’s usually to try and out stam deino if I get yoinked

[lunar mirage]

Does tactile work if your stam is fully depleted?

[dusky surge]

yup

one of the most efficient ways to regain and retain stamina

[viscid mica]

Yes

And it’s scaled proportionately to your health for example a galli get hits with something that does 200 damage will give it roughly 25% stam back

While a stego hit with 200 might get 3% if your lucky

[iron tree]

I just like to have it

[slim dragon]

I wish combat mutations never existed

[iron tree]

So I can stay mobile

[iron tree]

Fr

Mutations should be QoL picks rather than META picks

[viscid mica]

I’ll agree to this

[iron tree]

Tactical endurance is kinda eh

It's not as bad as gastro or the speed mutations but it can be very punishing as large herbivores can just spam their attacks, tank some hits just to spam their attacks again

[viscid mica]

I find the Dino’s that get the best tac value are teno just cuz they aren’t insanely heavy so it’s still good value but not light enough that they get clapped instantly

[viscid mica]

Ya combat,movement based and instant heal are super strong

Mind you healing is absurdly long by default

If I’m sitting that number should be quicker

Not .3 a year

Genuine agony trying to heal a Deino from red to full without gastro

[iron tree]

Fr

[viscid mica]

It’s takes exactly 1.40hrs from Ted to full resting and eating bare minimum without gastro

[hasty coyote]

@regal valve Pachies at least used to have their own unique spar system, until it broke. Basically if 2 pachies rammed each other at the same time, they would collide, stun or knockdown each other, but neither would take damage. However, it was buggy and would break/fix every other update until now when they have just stopped patching pachy.

From what I can tell, the issue is the fact that the pachy/pachy interaction and the carno/pachy interaction are based on the same code, so when they fixed one, the other broke. But now they are both broke...

[regal valve]

😔

[iron tree]

that is crazy

#balance-feedback message
I agree

Troodon's venom should have more effects

[maiden temple]

It should, it's pretty hard to stack and you can be swatted to death lol

It would be more fun if troo wasn't just a joke

[iron tree]

It should be genuinely terrifying to bump into a large pack of troodons

[restive latch]

Target rich environment for a carno tho

[viscid mica]

@shadow warren is that satire? like there is no way your actually trying to make the 6 T morningstar incapable of 1 tapping tiny tiers

[hasty coyote]

power swing having less damage than a cera charged bite 💀

[slim dragon]

@shadow warren Are you asking... to make stego's tailswing damage less than 200 ?

[viscid mica]

FR

better question WHY IS SOMETHING UNDER 200KG MESSING WITH STEGO

[slim dragon]

omni casually surviving a headshot from a stego's tailswing

[crimson crater]

that’s bait

[worthy steeple]

i wanted to upvote that just for fun tbh

[worthy steeple]

ofc that’s bait ahah

[viscid mica]

satire

[crimson crater]

highly doubt anyone truly believes that a stego should do less dmg than a carnos alt bite LOL

[worthy steeple]

but the isle community is weird sometimes, maybe there are people who actually think this should be the thing lmaooo

[crimson crater]

people complain about the balance and they proceed to suggest things like this
dondi’s balance> the community’s

[slim dragon]

I remember once seeing a suggestion that asked for herbis to be unable to deal damage until attacked by a carnivore
And it was serious

[worthy steeple]

lmaoo

[crimson crater]

“it breaks my immersion when herbivores attack me!”

[viscid mica]

wait make it do 200 BUT 0 cooldown on swings and cost 0 stam

machine gun stego

[worthy steeple]

LMAOOO the animation would look amazing

[worthy steeple]

literally what i was about to type lol

[viscid mica]

i love how thats where both our minds immediately went

[worthy steeple]

ahah

[iron tree]

Me when the 6t apex can one shot smaller animals

[edgy crow]

path of titans gameplay

[viscid mica]

REAL

[viscid mica]

@cobalt dagger that’s what organs are for

[cobalt dagger]

Yeah but those don't do too much, unless what you've killed is much bigger than you somehow. It feels weird to be, say, ptera, flying around, and finding a body that is pretty much worthless to you and anyone else once the organs are removed, in spite of it seeming fresh otherwise.

[edgy crow]

#balance-feedback message still unfair?

[crimson crater]

yes, why nerf an ability in 4 separate ways. so many drawbacks to an attack that will only deal 250 while teno can go around and spam something far more powerful

btw vomiting as a deterrent dosent matter if you make ceras easy to kill, people will still fight and kill them to then repair the damages

[edgy crow]

3

[crimson crater]

still too much

[edgy crow]

teno's equivalent attack, kick, does 150 damage and has a 2.5% stam cost

teno is 300kg bigger than cera

[crimson crater]

tenos kick does 250 not accounting for the fact that it stuns which allows it to get an additional free kick in. for 2% stam not 2.5%

[edgy crow]

how is it unfair for cera's charge to do the tiniest bit less damage and have a small stam cost

[crimson crater]

also weight ain’t everything

3 drawbacks

[edgy crow]

yes

[crimson crater]

carno vs cera would be nearly equally with those changes

[crimson crater]

no fair

[edgy crow]

vomit still exists

[crimson crater]

and?

what will vomit prevent LOL

its not stopping anyone

[edgy crow]

how is it unfair for cera to have the same drawbacks as every other playable?

[slim dragon]

Um

[crimson crater]

same drawbacks? last time i checked no other playable gets their privilege of moving around efficiently revoked, 3% per stam while other playables like teno take less for stronger attacks, with the dmg nerf a carno would be able to outdmg it

[edgy crow]

I changed it to 2.5%, still too much?

[crimson crater]

why would it be more than a tenos lol, and stamina on an attack like ceras dosent work well

[edgy crow]

also cera isn't an offensive playable, it shouldn't be running around doing allo-level damage

[crimson crater]

teno over here does more dmg than the 8T apex gator but that’s fine lol

(not to mention bleed which threatens even dibbles)

[slim dragon]

Flows got up today and decided to lie

[edgy crow]

except it doesn't

[crimson crater]

625 dmg on average, not a lie (not saying it takes that per kick of that’s what u believe bulbublu)

[edgy crow]

except its not on average

[crimson crater]

it is

[edgy crow]

except its not

[crimson crater]

the kick stuns which allows for a free follow up headshot

suddenly quiet? lmao

[viscid mica]

ya but then grow would be OP as you get garanteed diet from something that might just not be worth it other than organ

[edgy crow]

what do you mean 😭

[viscid mica]

snot everything needs to be diet

[crimson crater]

.

[slim dragon]

I still have no idea where that 625 damage comes from, and deino can also bite multiple times so it's straight-up a lie

[crimson crater]

250 + 375 with the H.S multipler = 625. deino has a longer cool-down on its attacks and dosen’t immobilize you preventing you from getting away after the first blow

[slim dragon]

It's really not that complicated

The game has to be fun because it's a game
This game being fun requires having a balanced and varied ecosystem, I couldn't care less about a playable being very strong or very weak, as long as it has its correct place in said ecosystem

Seeing all ceras is neither a fun nor varied ecosystem. Therefore cera needs a nerf so there's less of them around
Teno is far from being the most populated playable, it's not even the most populated herbivore
Therefore teno does not need a nerf

[slim dragon]

And deino cannot do headshots with its bites ?

[edgy crow]

Why is my nerf so unreasonable? Is it the speed nerf?

[crimson crater]

you’re completely disregarding how useful stuns can be, if i get headshotted by a deino that’s just a skill issue

[crimson crater]

all of it

[edgy crow]

and if a teno somehow does 625 damage in a SINGLE combo thats NOT a skill issue?

[slim dragon]

Same goes with getting hit with teno's stun ?

[crimson crater]

not really a solid argument as to why playables should be nerfed or not, address the actual issue and not player population, cera is mainly played because its the strongest and biggest land carnivore, make it bad and suddenly everyone will be playing the next best thing. that’s how it has always been

[edgy crow]

nope, cera is fundamentally overpowered

[crimson crater]

no, deinos are generally easier to dodge with their horrible agility and slow alt bite

[crimson crater]

i can tell there’s a lot of subjectivity with what you want for cera

[edgy crow]

why are you changing from "more raw damage" to "more damage if you land the hit"

can you be consistent??

[crimson crater]

what?

[keen plover]

I don't think Cerato should lose stamina for using their charge bite. I think the damage nerf + running slower is enough imo

[crimson crater]

when did i mention damage in the sentence you replied to

[slim dragon]

So teno does factually more damage than deino because you're good at dodging
That's not how numbers work bud

Also god forbid we take into account deino's special ability

[edgy crow]

[crimson crater]

fair enough, all i’m saying is that teno does a lot of dmg

for little to no drawbacks

[edgy crow]

not now it doesn't

not with the shadow nerfs it doesn't

[crimson crater]

it was nerfed by 25, that’s literally less than its bite lmao

[edgy crow]

still a nerf

[crimson crater]

oh okay, cera got nerfed by that logic it’s fine because “still a nerf”

[crimson crater]

so let me get this straight, you believe that teno dosent do a lot of dmg anymore because it got nerfed by 25 which is dryo level bite

[edgy crow]

yes

[crimson crater]

also this^^

[cosmic pelican]

Um, actually, its galli level ☝️ 🤓

[crimson crater]

the double standards is crazy

[edgy crow]

you're right it is

cera has no stam cost for its big attack, no cooldown or anything

teno has a stam cost for kick, which does less damage than a cera's charge bite, and it has to do a COMBO to equal cera's charge bite

why are you so biased towards cera?

[crimson crater]

its combo is braindead and still does way more dmg than a ceras

[crimson crater]

forgot to say this but since we’re counting headshots teno does the exact same of 750

[edgy crow]

its still a combo

[crimson crater]

and?

[edgy crow]

cera does massive amounts of damage with one hit

teno has to do a combo to equal that

it weighs 300kg more

hmmm this is fair I think nothing wrong here

[crimson crater]

quit lying, it does way more and not equal.
all you have to do is press RMB twice not difficult at all🤷‍♂️ not to mention the insane bleed

[edgy crow]

cera also has insane bleed

[crimson crater]

no

[edgy crow]

yes

quit lying

[crimson crater]

no, you just receive more bleed because your food and water levels are low. quit lying

[edgy crow]

I don't think this is going to go anywhere

[crimson crater]

👋🚪

[keen plover]

^

[cosmic pelican]

Cera in itself has average bleed, it feels stronger because after you vomit youll bleed much longer, because your food, water, stam drops

[maiden temple]

Very much this. Cera's bleed isn't scary in itself

But to be completely honest it should be taken into account when balancing

Especially since it's ridiculously easy to make someone puke

#balance-feedback message
Vomiting having a brief animation lock isn't the issue imo, it's how crippling vomiting just once is

The rest of the suggestion isn't bad, it should take away your hunger/water gradually. The more you puke the closer you are to dying

The vomit sickness (the cera specific one, I forgot the name) is also a massive punishment

Especially if you didn't have a high % of nutrients to begin with

[worthy steeple]

what’s up, class? i changed my mind a little bit, i got the new arguably the BEST set of changes for the cera.

• remove the vomit animation lock

• change the ceras speed to 39 when it charges

• lower the volume of the charge bite, but make it a lot louder when its body buffed, that way you will always know that the cera is buffed, even if the body is somewhere in the bushes and you don’t see it. (because let’s be real, the body buff radius is 50m there could be dead fg dibble somewhere in the bushes giving the cera 50% damage resistance and there’s no way to tell that cera is buffed)

• make it gain a lot more bacteria from the rotten corpses but instead remove the ability to gain bacteria from fresh corpses.
  (idea behind that is funny. i want cera to not only body bully but also make the body it took inedible for the rest of the roster and at the same time make it so the corpse rots faster, i want it to use its vomit mechanic more often)

• instead of taking almost your hunger/water in one vomit what should happen instead is target gonna vomit multiple times within like 5 minutes to slowly drain the hunger and water. i want cera to use its ability to smell the vomit and that way track it’s prey.

i think that’s all i want right now.

[iron tree]

That's pretty good

Post it in #balance-feedback

[worthy steeple]

hmm i wanna hear what flows thinks, discuss some stuff and only then post

[iron tree]

Hmm

I'd upvote

[worthy steeple]

and there’s a small chance i will change my mind and ask ceras weight to be reduced to 1,3kg

[iron tree]

If you actually post it

[worthy steeple]

upvotes don’t matter to meh👹👹👹
i’m here for the epic discussions

[iron tree]

1.3kg?????

[worthy steeple]

yeahh ahahaha

[iron tree]

My cat is heavier than that

[worthy steeple]

well, my cat isnt! (i don’t have a cat)

[iron tree]

Lmao

[worthy steeple]

@crimson crater @cosmic pelican hey nerds, what do you think about this?

-# i’m sorry, i though that would sound cool, you’re not nerds

[crimson crater]

i personally don’t believe that the charged bite should slow it down, it makes it feel clunkier and nerfs it in an area it already sucks in. removing the vomit lock thing is fine, another thing i don’t agree with is not allowing ceras to obtain bacteria from fresh corpses, it incentives them to only eat rotten stuff and not go after fresh carcasses, its a corpse bully and designed to take your food, problem is that if you encourage them to only eat rotten and unwanted stuff what’s the point of corpse bullying?

[worthy steeple]

i think the difference between 40 and 39 is just not enough for you to even feel it it will just make cera less offensive.

so my thing about getting bacteria from rotten only is a bit more complicated i guess.
you see someone with the body, you attack them and take the body, then you vomit on it and make it inedible for anyone else, you’re getting rewarded for using your ability by getting more bacteria out of the body and also someone you were fighting won’t be interested in the body anymore since it’s going to be rotten

short version:

you body bully, you make it inedible and gain more bacteria out of it

[crimson crater]

only if the vomit mechanic was actually useful, not beneficial to use.
nerfing its speed won’t really change much of that, its already slow enough for most things to be able to run away or keeping their distance during fights

[worthy steeple]

and tbf wasn’t your idea to make cera slower in general? i want cera to be slower only when its using its ability.

imo the charge bite should have some kind of drawback, it’s just too good

[slim dragon]

Vomit needs to be replaced with transmitting diseases

[worthy steeple]

yeah, that’s why the speed reduction is not permanent, only when it uses the ability

[crimson crater]

but why? what will it change

[slim dragon]

The issue is cera is too good at hunting and chasing things

[crimson crater]

things like dibbles ye, but slowing it down to 39 won’t change that

[worthy steeple]

i don’t like cera being that offensive without the body buff

charge bite is soo good to have no drawbacks

[slim dragon]

And also everythings that vomits in 1 charge bite, because vomiting slows you down to a trot, therefore giving cera another free bite

[worthy steeple]

too much damage + bacteria is too much

[crimson crater]

ok, how will slowing the cerato down 1 kmh change that

[worthy steeple]

imo it will, teno/pachy (kentro perhaps) will have easier time running away which is good

[slim dragon]

That's why I think it should be slowed more than 1 km/h when charging a bite, 1km/h is not enough

[worthy steeple]

less offensive, easier to run away from it

[crimson crater]

how many kmh do u think it needs

[crimson crater]

speed mutations, remove that and tenos/pachies will have no problem running away

[slim dragon]

3/4 km/h would probably be enough for a start

[worthy steeple]

hm

[crimson crater]

how about stamina consumption while running around with the charged bite increases? (trotting and walking won’t increase it). it’ll encourage ceras to generally fight more defensively and it won’t be stalled out that way

[slim dragon]

Now this would change pretty much nothing, because of the aforementioned vomit preventing players from sprinting

[worthy steeple]

hm.. sounds good to me, but depends what’s the modifier

[crimson crater]

your suggestion won’t prevent vomit locking either

[cosmic pelican]

Thats a whole ahh book, sorry, Ill read it when Im home

[slim dragon]

Nope, but the initial charge bite would be harder to land

And that's also why I say diseases transmission (when the disease system is added) should replace vomit sickness

[iron tree]

They're gonna add a disease system?

[crimson crater]

how? you’re simply slower, all it does is make dodging harder

[slim dragon]

Slower = prey has more time to react and run away

[slim dragon]

Not hard-confirmed, but both Dondi and Kissen spoke of it

[crimson crater]

i don’t think anyone is struggling when it comes to that, hell the charged bite literally is designed so that it can’t catch you off guard with it lmao

[slim dragon]

If no one was struggling with that, ceras wouldn't be so dominant

[iron tree]

That'd actually fit cera

[crimson crater]

yea that’s because they are “undisputed” not hard to escape

[slim dragon]

They are
Because 1 bite = vomit = one more bite
And that's enough to kill a lot of things

[crimson crater]

like?

[slim dragon]

dilo and everything smaller than it

And depending on the prey's acceleration rate, cera may get more than one free bite

[crimson crater]

if you get ambushed by a cera as a raptor, you might just be beyond saving to say the least lol

[slim dragon]

Did I mention ambushing ? Reaction times also apply during a chase

[crimson crater]

then its even worse LOL, things like dilo-omni sized are 5kmh faster, plenty time to react no?

[worthy steeple]

tbf cera making vomit things 1/3 its weight is fine, i dont like an idea of it making vomit bigger dinos in 2 bites

[iron tree]

I mean

It's not hard to get ambushed by a cera

[slim dragon]

Let's give an example of my own experience : while playing as dilo, I encountered a bunch of ceras while traveling through highlands
At first I wanted to sneak past them, but got spotted and had to book it, but needed time to turn around+reach full speed from crouching
I got lag-hit at the tip of my tail, instant vomit slowdown, got bit another time (survived because the cera kept biting on my tail instead of going for the body or head)

[crimson crater]

it can’t

[worthy steeple]

it can

[iron tree]

It literally can

[worthy steeple]

it takes 2 bites to make teno with the full hunger vomit, one if the hunger is not full

[crimson crater]

on full hunger nah

2 regular bites is straight up a lie

[iron tree]

Charged bite shouldn't deal bole at all imo

It's base bite should deal more bile but less damage

[worthy steeple]

ITS NOT AHAH

[crimson crater]

9/10 situations you don’t have to completely do a 360 and run in the opposite direction, dilo has subpar agility for its size + i blame desync not ceras

[crimson crater]

?

[worthy steeple]

literally takes 2 bites to make teno vomit, regular bites

[iron tree]

Wait

[crimson crater]

it dosen’t, if you can we can test it

[iron tree]

Does it?

[worthy steeple]

i’ll be on norden in a moment

[iron tree]

Can I join you guys in 10-ish minutes

[crimson crater]

sure

[indigo rain]

I was one-bit on the tail and vomited as teno. Its def a thing

[crimson crater]

@worthy steeple so now that we’ve tested it, you can see that ceras can’t run down tenos

you used your attacks multiple times + vomited + jumped but still had more than me

[worthy steeple]

they can’t

and i was also wrong about the bites you need to make teno vomit, it’s 3 with the full hunger

[crimson crater]

yea nice that you accepted it and not create excuses👍

[worthy steeple]

because i never do that

tho 3 bites to make teno with full hunger vomit is still meh

[crimson crater]

yea

[cobalt dagger]

I don't think so, the times you run into un-diet food is pretty uncommon. It's much more common for carnivore diets to flicker around in weird ways, Teno is on Herra's diet one moment and then not in the next. Why is Teno on it's diet and not a dilo? The diets are weird and already some creatures have super easy grow because of ai. Dilo can grow super easy off fo ai, they can get full diet from ai. But if a dilo finds a dead PT, nope no diet from that not even organs. It would be better to kill a super easy sea turtle than to do the work of hunting a PT.

[viscid mica]

@steep furnace the goal is a fun playable mid sized herbi nerfing their weight would make them free 99 to kill

Also diablo ranged anywhere from 1500-4000

[viscid mica]

That is a whole other issue

Or not tbh because you don’t need to KOS everything some things you can just leave be because they aren’t on your diet and not worth the effort

[steep furnace]

first off the isle uses the metric system and thats what i was refering too. and 2000-400lbs is 1.4-1.8 metric tons.

[steep furnace]

and the other thing is other players want to have fun and not get chased down by and over sized potato

[viscid mica]

Litterally 90% of the playables are significantly faster than dibble

You can simply walk away

[viscid mica]

Ya I see I misread that but good thing not everything in the game is realistic

[steep furnace]

thats true its a dinosaur and human game already not realistic, but then again the isle heavly focuses on "realism" the devs have said that many times.

[steep furnace]

nothing expect gali can walk away from dibble.

[viscid mica]

*troodon, omni, cera, teno, Maia, etc most of the small can out pace dibble either walking or are double their run speed

[steep furnace]

cera can out run it but if dibble is running it can not. and im also pretty sure they have simmilar stam and speed.

yes omni and troodon can. when was the last time you saw a dibble kill another herbivore? they dont they always mix herd making them that more untouchable

[viscid mica]

Cera base speed -41kmph
Dibble 34kmph

And cera has longer sprint

[viscid mica]

Two days ago 4 man dibble tried to press a 10 man teno group didn’t end well for the dibbles

Where did you get this info that cera and dibble are roughly the same speed they ain’t even close

[steep furnace]

its a 10 V 4 what did you expect to happen. and they were tenos? tenos are also op (i like where teno is btw i think its fine)

[viscid mica]

The only thing slower than dibble are stego

[viscid mica]

Teno isn’t op it has a extremely high skill cap meaning you can be trash and you can be god and tons of unbetween

I’ve seen tenos who can’t even handle a single omni and I’ve seen tenos who can 1v3 cera

Teno is all timing

[steep furnace]

you can 2 shot a omni and 3-4 shot a carno. and all it takes is a is a tail slam and a few kicks and they are out of the fight.

[steep furnace]

true

[viscid mica]

Omni are 450kg pretty dam small

And carno have a absurd stun timer which is why teno shred them

Plus the devs design for carno is small game

Not the Dino 300kg bigger

Not to say you can’t kill a teno just pray it’s new teno player 4567 and not god teno 6

[steep furnace]

well they cant do much in that range. they get pinned by 3 omnis and get dunked on by a few dilos. and the nerf that it got isnt helping. and there isnt much small game when all the devs are adding are massive herbis

[viscid mica]

Cycle charge

I’ve never lost a fight to omni or dilo as carno

[steep furnace]

thats you. not everyone

[viscid mica]

Magic of alt biting and being faster

[viscid mica]

I mean I’m not a god teir carno by any means I barely play it

[steep furnace]

magic of having a better turn radius and dilo having venom and carno has a crappy bleed resist

[viscid mica]

That requires the dilo to hit the carno

Without getting hit

More than once to get t3

[steep furnace]

way easier said than done

[viscid mica]

Yes it’s easy to hit dilo

Your charge makes your speed roughly 60km dilo turn radius big suck

[steep furnace]

all the dilos have to do is wait until you either mess up or run out of stam

[steep furnace]

carnos is worse

[viscid mica]

Next time you play carno I got a trick for you hold alt click to look let go of alt click it again right away left click and see the magic of drifting alt bites and run

[steep furnace]

carno shouldnt have to depend on a unintended feature. unless it is intended to run and alt bite.

[viscid mica]

It’s not running alt bite

Your not running your coming out of the drifting animation alt biting then returning to running

[steep furnace]

my bad driting alt bites

[edgy crow]

#balance-feedback message

Most based suggestion I've ever seen

[viscid mica]

The lack of cooking in here today is making me hungry

0 though of longevity when bigger things come which multiple are right around the corner

How will dibble fair when stuff like allo, Sucho and Alberto exist

They’ll be significantly large and stronger than it if it was half its current weight

Hell you could easily solo a dibble if it was 1500

[steep furnace]

you shouldnt need another playable to balance something. cause it still isnt balanced for everything else.

[steep furnace]

not saying it should be 1.5 saying it should be nerfed to 2 or 2.3

[viscid mica]

???? Everything is balancing around each-other if they weren’t then only 1 thing would be feasible to play

[viscid mica]

Roughly 1k hit points gone loses a huge amount of stun range

[steep furnace]

thats a good thing. it needs to be less tanky

[edgy crow]

By using its head hit reduction

[viscid mica]

Oh ya that will help again something now larger than it with a pin ability a 5T water tank and infinite sub Rex but faster vibe check

[viscid mica]

It really doesn’t

What did you even try and hunt it as to think it’s as fast as cera and needs to be trash

[steep furnace]

its unkillable unless you are a stego or deino or mega pack or cera. you shouldnt need all that to kill a 1.4 ton creature. or 3 ton cause dondi thought that was a good idea

[viscid mica]

Go play dibble and when you get killed by a skilled cera duo and you barely get 2/3 hits tell me it’s too light

[viscid mica]

You don’t

Hell I’ve killed dibble recently with a few troodons

[steep furnace]

me and my friend grew dibble. we were both barley sub and came across a cera pack. (around 6) and we ALMOST WON they were mostlyt FG expect one sub

[edgy crow]

Who said allo should/will be larger

[viscid mica]

The cera mega packs are smooth brain so are the mix packers that’s why they need the mega pack and mix pack

[viscid mica]

Allow is planned to be bigger than 2T

[steep furnace]

can agree i dont particularly like them either. i hate mix herding more tho

[viscid mica]

But too be clear dibble are 100% killable at their size even in numbers if you play it right

He’ll dilo (when venom actually worked) could easily duo wipe a full 3-4 man dibble group just because of venom

Dilo is the Bain of all mid sized herbivores

[steep furnace]

they are but there is a 90% chance you lose most of your pack or get one close to death and it runs to a teno mia stego pachy mix herd

[viscid mica]

90% is fight it’s entirely skill based

[steep furnace]

if they were VERY skilled and the dibbles were trash

[viscid mica]

Your average player sure

[viscid mica]

Skilled* you don’t need to be god to cook most dibbles

[steep furnace]

thats true. i can kill a dilo as omni in a 1v1 cause i play omni a crap ton. but dibble requires almost no skill for you to do damgage. back up into a wall you win.

[viscid mica]

Hell I got jumped by a cera trio that was pretty solid and lost my FG dibble to em in a trio let me tell you those other 2 woulda been much easier they where Ai activity

[viscid mica]

I mean for now because there are no actual mid sized carni (on land)

[steep furnace]

true for now. when allo or rex comes out then that strat dies. but who knows when allo comes out

[viscid mica]

Next couple months most likely sooner than not once we get this upcoming HT that everyone is holding there breath for we shall see

[steep furnace]

but when rex comes out trike does aswell and then we have the whole argument all over again

[steep furnace]

hoping ur right honestly

[viscid mica]

Meh sub Rexs will be doing work

I just want kentro man

[steep furnace]

i honestlyu rlly like kentro. they seem derpy and chill

i mean thier entire body just screams "please go away i wanna be alone"

[viscid mica]

The ultimate middle finger of Dino’s “it don’t matter what side of me you are I will make it hurt”

[steep furnace]

i can just imagine a troodon trying to pounce it and getting impailed

[steep gazelle]

@steep furnace If you reduce the weight of the dibble your speed will have to increase, do you really want to have a dibble chasing you whether you are like cera or teno? or even 6 dibbles

[cobalt dagger]

That is true, not encouraging killing everything seems ideal, although organs kinda go against that.

[steep furnace]

if they decrese wieght i would be fine with a speed increase. never said they needed to nerf both

[viscid mica]

exactly

[swift wind]

totally unbalanced but yeah why not

[iron tree]

@steep furnace first up, the isle doesn't claim accuracy. And the remains of diabloceratops are very fragmentary so we don't know how large dibble actually was.

Balance wise...oof..if you would make dibble 1.4-1.8t it'd get mauled by ceras...easily...not to mention allo. I don't know why you're complaining as dibble is perfectly balanced and you can literally avoid them. When the devs buffed it to 3t they decreased its damage output too. That means they just made it tankier. And 10+t trike wouldn't be too bad

#balance-feedback message oh my...that would make omni faster than Carno 😭

[swift wind]

nothing wrong with that

sounds fair to me

[iron tree]

Carno and dilo couldn't fight back at all

Oh and galli

They'd be unplayable

And what is THIS? 😭

[edgy crow]

[iron tree]

I hope this is a joke

[swift wind]

take off your anti omni bias glasses for a second and think about how good it would be

[iron tree]

It'd be so good, every animal on gateway would be an Omniraptor

[swift wind]

as it should be

[iron tree]

The isle? No, the omni

I really hope they were joking

@worthy steeple #balance-feedback message you gotta see this 😭

[swift wind]

people say omni players have a victim complex but then when an omni player suggests some small and reasonable buffs you guys downvote him

[cosmic pelican]

Omni is fine, just fix the bugs

[swift wind]

most successful omni hunt

[edgy crow]

WHY DID THEY JUST STAND THERE

[cosmic pelican]

It was me, I got stunned

Twice

The first time I lived because vomiting gets you out of a stun

[cosmic pelican]

I mean, when it works, its good, but thats rare 😭

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1102619485334143006/1320058359168106526/omni_is_trash_fr_A_Clipchamppel_keszult.mp4?ex=67af68a6&is=67ae1726&hm=18dfe34fcb0b94bb5d82df8fbb5ea5f20d2722bc1759709dbd233aef361504c4& you could argue this means its too strong, but then stuff like this also happen

[worthy steeple]

jesus christ..

i was writing huge message but then i decided not to waste my time on that😶‍🌫️

[cosmic pelican]

Pls do, I wanna have a laugh

[worthy steeple]

oh please..

[cosmic pelican]

🥺

[worthy steeple]

alright, give me a minute

[cosmic pelican]

Yippie

[worthy steeple]

or ten

[crimson crater]

how is buffing omni to 50KMH, making it tankier than a pachy, not punishing them for making major errors such as hitting teammates and buffing the bleed reasonable suggestions

[cosmic pelican]

Also the pack buff

Wait, 50kmh base speed would mean sub omni would be the same speed as a charging carno LMAO

[mint star]

“it’s just a small buff bro”

the “small buff” in question: utterly breaks balance

[crimson crater]

the omni hive-mind will cook up the most diabolical suggestions and think it’ll balanced

[cosmic pelican]

This is the first topic you and cheesy agree on 🥹

History has been made

[crimson crater]

we agree on most things except for the cerato issue

[worthy steeple]

oh

well this is unfortunate

[hasty coyote]

charging carno is 60, it would make it faster than a non-charging carno tho

[crimson crater]

it would be 55.2, not as fast but still

[steep gazelle]

omni with 3-5km more speed would run faster than a carnotaurus if it uses photosyntec

[steep gazelle]

But about the pounce not being able to reach your group it would help a lot, just like it should have for trodoon

[dusky surge]

average raptor buff suggestion lol

[edgy crow]

he's back

[swift wind]

It’s well balanced omni slow as flip

[crimson crater]

4th fastest dino

[swift wind]

Yeah my point proven

[crimson crater]

fail to see how you think omni is slow

[swift wind]

Dude just suggested some light buffs and everyone goes wild over it

[swift wind]

Tbf most of the time you hit your teammate it is due to glitchy pounce

[crimson crater]

then that should be fixed and not omni to be buffed

[swift wind]

Nah

[worthy steeple]

https://tenor.com/view/tf2-thousand-yard-stare-gif-3375758199587212884

[crimson crater]

https://tenor.com/view/bait-thats-bait-tom-hardy-mad-max-gif-5055384

[edgy crow]

https://tenor.com/view/spto-scott-pilgrim-scott-pilgrim-takes-off-envy-adams-even-she-was-weirded-tf-out-gif-15109650988715259582

so to conclude

50km/h omni

[swift wind]

https://tenor.com/view/no-gif-6533142189269812111

[swift wind]

Sounds balanced to me

[worthy steeple]

it is lol, an obvious one as well

[viscid mica]

@delicate rivet unfortunately my friend that is the cost of being small your weaker and will have a harder time competing with larger stuff but you are faster more nimble and versatile

[iron tree]

fr

[eager saddle]

Those are NOT light buffs😂

[iron tree]

I think peaceful is being sarcastic

Let me rephrase that. I hope they are being sarcastic

[swift wind]

Those buffs are so light they’d probably blow away in the wind

[eager saddle]

absolutely not. And I PLAY omni.

this would immediately bump it up to OP tier

[viscid mica]

Omni doesn’t need stat buffs

It needs desync fixed

So you aren’t warping through your target and hitting freindlies

If that gets fixed problem solved

Omni is plenty strong

[eager saddle]

a lot of dinos need this tbh

Poor troodon

[viscid mica]

It’s just a server /game thing

Can only be fixed over time nothing you can do about it instantly it’s a hard problem

As it’s about finding just the right medium to have it minimize the issue as it can’t be solve completely

[eager saddle]

I mean, getting stunned for 4 whole seconds when pouncing an omni on a flank is a bit odd too. 4 is too much. Make it like 2. Still plenty time to kill the omni.

but 4 gives them enough time to turn around, make a cup of tea, drink the tea and murder the omni x)

[viscid mica]

Ya it’s meant to punish bad pounces but rn due to how rough the desync has been it punished everyone for no real reason

You gotta be very calculated when pouncing to avoid it

I will say unofficials suffer from it less so I’d say the server provider the isle currently uses isn’t the greatest

[viscid mica]

@icy blaze a skilled cera duo can easy take a dibble

Plus it’s hitbox is abit thicc but not insane

A minor adjustment to optimize its hitbox would be fine but the rest would hurt it long term

[slim dragon]

With so many dinos having "busted hitboxes" I'm starting to think it's the dinos hitboxes that are too big
And if the hitboxes for taking damage are the same that the ones which check collision with terrain, yeah they're definitely bigger than the dinos models

[icy blaze]

theres the thing.. one dibble lol... but they almost always show up with more

[viscid mica]

Oh na you can go after a trio with a 3 man

Playing the spacing is easy

[slim dragon]

Not like dibble population on servers outnumber ceras currently

[viscid mica]

Plus if the dibble wiffs a alt attack they got 3 seconds to hit

[icy blaze]

yes, if theyre not hugging the wall or the water or a canyon and / or the hitbox would be fixed

[viscid mica]

It’s not like cera should be hunting something triple weight anyways but it still can

Just like how Omni can take down a stego all circumstantial

And skill

[icy blaze]

everything else is to slow xD

but if not cera, then tell me which other dinosaur is supposed to hunt dibble

[slim dragon]

omni, dilo

[icy blaze]

and then theire still to many and the hitbox is still to broken

[crimson crater]

how do you balance cera in a way so it dosen’t hunt dibbles without butchering it

[icy blaze]

timer on chargebite?

[viscid mica]

Allo the many things bigger planned

[slim dragon]

I mean
Yeah nothing's gonna take on a whole herd of dibbles
Like nothing would take on a herd of stegos, or pack of deinos, or a group of any apex
Not alone that is

[viscid mica]

That would be too heavy of a nerf

[icy blaze]

well i would wish them to give the smaller dinosaurs more love instead of creating bigger and bigger ones

because who will be the enemy of the bigger ones tho, the next bigger one

[viscid mica]

You can solve the cera damage problem by literally removing the animation lock from vomiting

[slim dragon]

They can do both
Look at herrera

[viscid mica]

The small ones are plenty strong. You just have to be in numbers and skilled.

[icy blaze]

thats actually a good idea

[icy blaze]

well i love playing troodon. but honestly the amount of stam you need is not fun

i mean we managed to kill a dibble (not fg ofc) but after youre done you can go shower because youre sweaty af xDDD

[viscid mica]

Funny enough this is my area of expertise. Get three people have two attacking all at once or one person Regrn stam the second person. Isn’t much so attacking as keeping up and being in the area ready to switch out.

If you’re good at dodging a trio can easily take on a dibble

For anything bigger, you’re gonna want four or more

Mind you after tier 3 every pounce does 120 venom damage

[icy blaze]

ok if you managed to do that please send a video

[viscid mica]

Have done it many times, though I don’t personally record my gameplay and I doubt I’ll remember to do this later on if you want to believe it or not that’s up to you I’m just telling you it’s simply possible and it’s just a matter of practice

[slim dragon]

The fact 3 troodons can take on a dibble is actually hilarious

[icy blaze]

with a drio? or did i misunderstand that one and you emant 3 people

[viscid mica]

It takes a long time and a lot of stam management

[slim dragon]

It better do
Honestly troodon is underrated

[viscid mica]

That is 10 pounces per person

Technically, less because of the 20, I’m pretty sure dibble after tier 3 is a roughly 22 to 23 pounces

[icy blaze]

so you meant 3 people not the dinosaur dryo xDD ok makes more sens enow

[viscid mica]

That’s rough so it’s not exact

[viscid mica]

What do you mean?

[crimson crater]

not really, it sounds good on paper but dosent work

[swift wind]

attack speed increase

[viscid mica]

I responded to a question about troodons?

[icy blaze]

there is a dinosaur dryosaurus i thought u meant this. nevermind lmao

[viscid mica]

Doesn’t need it

[viscid mica]

?????

[swift wind]

too slow

for an agile dino

[viscid mica]

Na troodon the thing you mentioned!?

[icy blaze]

forget about it my weird brain is doing things

[viscid mica]

Doesn’t need it would be a nice quality of life thing, but it doesn’t need it

[swift wind]

it needs it for my mental wellbeing

[viscid mica]

But yeah, like I was saying the trick to hunting the bigger things of small things is numbers and experience

I personally can solo a dibble as a dilo and I’m pretty sure if I tried it again I could one V one a dibble as troodon

[swift wind]

famous last words

[viscid mica]

I mean I got one to red health recently

[swift wind]

interesting

on pvp server or normal

[viscid mica]

Normal

[swift wind]

sure it was 100percent beforehand?

[viscid mica]

I only play PvP on new Dino release to get a feel for it

[viscid mica]

It is a extremely long fight of baiting attacks pouncing till 60% stam walking around to get back to 100% rinse repeat

It took me like 8minutes to get it to red?

Sense I can’t keep it in t3 easily

But tbh a full 8 man of troos can easily go after even a stego

[iron tree]

#balance-feedback message

Just don't fight them

[swift wind]

troodon is cool

never played it but i respect those who do for playing a glass cannon

[viscid mica]

Troodons foot steps are absurdly loud won’t lie

Like they are almost as bad as dilo

[swift wind]

yeah but i guess you gotta give it some drawback considering it is so easy to lose them

even if it feels a little unrealistic

[viscid mica]

It can be 1 tapped by 70% of the roaster

It really doesn’t need more drawback than that?

[swift wind]

more so that it would be too easy for the troodon to outmaneuvre anything when fighting in grass without loud sounds

especially in a pack situation

tbf i rarely see people playing troodon so i cant speak from a wealth of experience

[viscid mica]

Ya it’s def one that you basically have to be in a coordinated group for or be highly experienced it’s not easy

There is a video of a 30 or so troodon group haunting a server some where

Ah here’s a good one

https://youtu.be/0D7S5kn4YsE?si=sh2oOhBG2XEObGGk

You don’t need to be mounted as long as POV guy does

[swift wind]

id have crashed out if i had to deal with that

[viscid mica]

As long as you get that first bite animation your chilling

[viscid mica]

Oh trust me PEOPLE DID

Note once purple that stego took 120 per pounce

Every scree is a success hit and increase in t3 time (it’s like 1 second lol)

You can cancel it by sniffing

As that video shows with patients and practice and most importantly numbers small stuff are a force to be reckoned with

[worthy steeple]

#balance-feedback message cera does 452 with the damage mutations???

this is unholy

[steep gazelle]

the last time I tested this was the damage

[viscid mica]

Better question is it both accelerated prey and hemomania

So it only does that when the target is low health

[crimson crater]

how does cera do the same amount of dmg as the 8T gator?

[viscid mica]

Combat mutations

[steep gazelle]

350 is the standard damage, which is already extremely high

[slim dragon]

Better fix : Remove damage mutations

[worthy steeple]

yeah lol

[steep gazelle]

Well, this question should be asked to the devs and not to me xd

[crimson crater]

i like that cera hits hard, why not nerf it in other areas

[worthy steeple]

that’s the first thing that needs to be removed

[crimson crater]

345 vs 500, i’m asking u this, ur math ain’t mathing

[worthy steeple]

the mean the damage with the mutations ig

so it’s 452 vs 500

[steep gazelle]

Dude, hitting hard would be a maximum of 300 for his weight, but no. 452 is extremely exaggerated

[viscid mica]

452 only applies if the target is low HP

as accelerated prey drive can’t do bonus with them being orange or lower

[worthy steeple]

actually had no idea cera does this much lmao, it’s 678 headshot damage

[crimson crater]

its not just cera who has a lot of dmg for its size

[steep gazelle]

I know, but that doesn't change the fact that it's completely unbalanced. Losing 35 damage from prey drave won't affect the 452 damage as much as you think

[crimson crater]

this seems more like a mutation issue

[viscid mica]

Fair it is high I kinda wanna wait and see how it handles against allo before I decide

[worthy steeple]

yes

[viscid mica]

If it’s actually holding its ground 0 body with ease due to the extra damage then sure nuke it

Otherwise I’d leave it for now

[steep gazelle]

the others that have high damage have disadvantages such as running speed, attack and stam expenditure. But Cerato does not, its only disadvantage is that it is
"slow"

Cerate in the evrima is a more effective predator than any other than an apex

[worthy steeple]

i know, but what i think is we should not nerf cera for now, the game needs something this strong, let’s wait for an allo to kinda fix an ecosystem first and then we maybe rework cera or something

[crimson crater]

cera takes time to build up its dmg so it isn’t as spammy as other abilities

[worthy steeple]

if you nerf cera now those cera players will switch to dibble and ruin the ecosystem, just imagine how boring it is when everyone is a herbivore and doesn’t fear anything

the game needs a strong carnivore cera is

[steep gazelle]

wait even longer? So many bugs to solve, dino to fix like troodon, dibble, pachy and cerato and we have to wait until it comes out for the bugs to start doing what they're supposed to do?

[worthy steeple]

again, if we nerf cera now we will lose the only carnivore capable of hunting large herbivores

i don’t want an easy life for the herbivores, i want them to fear

[steep gazelle]

It doesn't need to be an extreme nerf, just reduce the charge bite's base damage to 300. It will make a huge difference.

Apparently people in the community will vote against it precisely because it's broken, they love that something 1.3 is as strong and useful as an 8t

The community asks for changes, as long as it doesn't affect your beloved and broken dino xd

[steep gazelle]

dilos are also able to hunt herbivores nowadays, but they are not completely bugged like this

[viscid mica]

Dilo are useless right now

The venom is broken so it doesn’t do anything. It does zero damage.

You can try and physically do everything but you’ll usually get slammed

[steep gazelle]

a bug that should have been resolved a long time ago is still present, making a playable dino completely useless xd

[viscid mica]

I mean, they haven’t released any bug fixes in a minute, which is why I think we’re waiting on a horde test, but I don’t know how long we have to wait

[worthy steeple]

hehehe you don’t know that, but i’m the biggest cera hater out there.

but the thing is, i’m fine with cera being what it is right meow, because we literally don’t have any other mid sized carnivore capable of hunting the current herbivore roster, which is 3 times the size of the cera.

and there’s a reason cera got buffed, it needs that, for now

[viscid mica]

POV your average teno player

[worthy steeple]

(mid sized in the current roster, not mid tier, you nerds)

[steep gazelle]

he bug should have been resolved within 1 week after the update that caused it, but no, it's still here even after 1 month. I love the isle devs

[worthy steeple]

AHAHAHA i’m sorry, but im so sick of vomiting like 30 times in a day.

imo it’s kinda my fault, because it’s my choice to hunt those ceras, but i still hate that

[viscid mica]

Teno players smh

[worthy steeple]

sometimes there’s smart ceras, that just bite me, make me vomit and run to the river where i can’t kill them, little silly cats, they think they can run forever

[worthy steeple]

well, someone needs to be a population control

[viscid mica]

[steep gazelle]

Well, I understand what you mean. But reducing it to 300 would leave the cerato as the main herb hunter, but it would also give it the chance to be defeated by other carnivores so as not to become a pest.

and ceratos generally only hunt herbs like diablo and stego in groups of 4, so it will barely affect them

[worthy steeple]

hm, i don’t really think the other carnivores should really fight the cera? i don’t really see the point.

like any sane player would rather not fight the cera, why would you want to vomit and lose all your food/water and some nutrients?

with the current ai starving is not even an issue, you literally can’t starve.

and cera being the slowest carnivore makes it very easy to run away from it

i would agree with you if killing ceras as other carnivores was crucial for surviving, but it’s not

[steep gazelle]

What people like most is fighting, a carnivore that no other carnivore dares to attack even though it only weighs 1.3, that's why they love Cerato so much. Take a look at the votes in general feedback on my suggestion xd

[worthy steeple]

hm, that’s a lie, this is me 2v1ing 2 ceras as a solo carno

[steep gazelle]

Dillo could hunt Cerato, a group of Carnotaurs too, Omni too, Troodon too. But all of these need to be in a group to face a single Cerato, and if that Cerato climbs onto a rock there is no fight, it will hardly die.

[worthy steeple]

everything is possible if you’re good enough

[viscid mica]

Na it’s all skill based

[steep gazelle]

Of course, there are exceptions to Cerato, players who don't know how strong it is. Cerato is enough to use the charge, Carno can't overcome this even with his stun which is very easy to counter

[viscid mica]

Not the cera

A high skill troodon, dilo, carno omni etc etc can easily 1v1 a cera even if the skill is same

Cera combat is really simple

[steep gazelle]

Yes, it's a question of skill. A Cerato, if it knows how to play, is unlikely to die to other carnivores. The point is that a group of Carno, Dillo and Omni needs to know how to play to be able to defeat 1 single Cerato, and there it should be a total defeat for the Cerato

[worthy steeple]

wait what’s your point again?

[steep gazelle]

his doesn't apply as much to carnotaurs, because 3 carno make 1 pancake cerato, but this applies more to others

[worthy steeple]

i mean it’s obvious that they need to know how to play the game if they want to kill the cera, how do you expect that work?

[viscid mica]

Na cera aren’t that good

[worthy steeple]

wait, how come im the one defending the cera lmao?

help

[steep gazelle]

as he should, certain death unless he manages to escape. The Cerato just needs to go to a rock and it will be safe, who would dare attack it in that place?

[viscid mica]

I dunno

[viscid mica]

The mystical power of not needing to fight every fight and

WALKING AWAY

[steep gazelle]

all other carnivores, even if they are on a rock, are in enormous danger against groups, but this does not apply to Cerato if he knows the basics of his dino

I like Cerato, but its exaggerated damage really makes me hate it. Like cheesy said, I hope this changes when release allo

[worthy steeple]

there’s like 2-3 rocks on the whole map that cera can climb.

and why using a terrain is a crime?

[worthy steeple]

because all other carnivores are A LOT faster than the cera

[viscid mica]

Hold up hold up it is 100% vulnerable

Against groups?

Na bro ain’t invincible and he takes extra HS damage

[steep gazelle]

t's not a crime, man. I'm just saying that compared to others, cerato is extremely special. Not even the carnotaurus is that good at the only thing it knows how to do, with a very high stam cost to run xd

[viscid mica]

Cera is not a smol boy you can jump him

[worthy steeple]

wait what? cera?

[viscid mica]

Ya cera isn’t immune to group by hugging wall

[worthy steeple]

oh that’s what you meant

[steep gazelle]

It is not immune, but it is also not far from being

[viscid mica]

It really is thou it only takes 3 to pin a cera for omni if dilo get him t3 with a few well timed hits he’s dead troodons are just gonna swamp him in hits and carnos will find away to get the thinnest bit of hitbox for charges

[steep gazelle]

Well, I don't want to argue any further knowing that my suggestion will hardly be accepted by those who love cerato. So have a good day

🙂

[viscid mica]

I don’t i rarely play it and cheesy is a teno main

You simply did not cook here

Your saying cera is the end all be all deity of death when while stronger than it should be it’s not

[steep gazelle]

I'm not saying this about you, but about those who voted for the suggestion in general feedback

[viscid mica]

I mean it’s a severe nerf

And if vomit didn’t animation lock you cera wouldn’t do half as much damage

Simpler fix without nuking the playable

[steep gazelle]

Is reducing damage by 50 of your charge bite severe nerf? ok xd

[viscid mica]

You didn’t say 50 you said “any number less than 300”

Ignoring the fact that it is meant to fight stuff that will weight some 2+T

[steep gazelle]

below 300, it could be 299.

🙂

[viscid mica]

“Reduce it to 250…”

That’s a 100 damage drop

[steep gazelle]

"or"

[viscid mica]

Yes but your wording all the same

The intent is pretty clear if you ask me

[steep gazelle]

The only thing I want is a nerf on Cerato, something that makes him fightable against a carno in 1v1. a damage reduction of 50 would help a lot

Well, I don't want to discuss this anymore. You didn't agree with my suggestion and my thoughts, nothing I say will change that

[viscid mica]

It already is

I mean your simply speaking from your experience and ignored multiple players who said otherwise

[steep gazelle]

I'm talking about a Cerato who knows how to play, not a beginner, to implement it to make it more understandable for you

[viscid mica]

I’ve played every Dino in this game a MINIMUM of 3 times to FG

[steep gazelle]

good

[viscid mica]

Cheesy is a PVP player with a lot of combat practice

[steep gazelle]

good too

[viscid mica]

Both of say cera is not that strong

[steep gazelle]

The main factor that makes Cerato op is that the mutations work in its charge bite, while all other carnivores do not. Changing this would also help

For me, there shouldn't even be damage mutations in the game or even speed ones, but I can't do anything about that.

[viscid mica]

Then why not make mutation not effect charge bite instead of nerfing charge bite?

[steep gazelle]

either would be good. But which suggestion do you think is most acceptable to the community? One that affects all carnivores or one that only affects 1 playble?

[worthy steeple]

everyone hates meta mutations, removing all the damage/speed/hp ones would be amazing

even some of the devs do lmao

[steep gazelle]

Everyone has an opinion and thought that I don't know, so I bet on that one. But I can make another suggestion about these mutations

[viscid mica]

The one that effects all tbh the mass majority of the community’s hates all combat and speed perks

QoL stuff is cool in everyone’s books it’s the combat based stuff that no one likes

[steep gazelle]

On the servers I play on, players actually like these mutations, especially those from Ceratos, so I really didn't know it was so hated

[viscid mica]

You do know servers can adjust mutation value too right?

[steep gazelle]

in these servers the value is the base value of the offic

[viscid mica]

Ya most of us don’t on officials we all run them cuz they are meta and kinda a must

[steep gazelle]

even made a suggestion to remove these mutations within these servers, but the majority denied

[viscid mica]

Cuz they are meta and many players don’t know how to operate without them

[steep gazelle]

really. Having only survival mutations would be good

[viscid mica]

Tbh simply QoL like extra breath under water, longer food and what not is all good (I don’t mind reduced damage against larger as it’s only really good for the smallest of small tier and tiny tiers)

[steep gazelle]

Unfortunately, these mutations left players dependent, a cerato can't play without hemomania and neither can an omni or dillo without photosynthetic.

teno with photossintec too

herb with tactile

[viscid mica]

Yup

They crutch them because of how strong they are same as gastro

[maiden temple]

#balance-feedback message
The damage is fine, what isn't fine is that it's free. It should cost stam for being that high

#balance-feedback message
There's no reason to make night vision monochrome, it looks bad 😦

Having different colours stand out could be more fun idea, herras could see much more vivid colours at night for example - since their skins and gender glow is very vivid 😄

This would - at the same time - punish people with bright skins, natural selection

[crystal wharf]

and of course, remove damage mutations :)

[edgy crow]

#balance-feedback message why are they so FAT

[hasty coyote]

Imo its actually kinda bad for the smallest tier, since it generally doesn't let them tank an extra hit in 90% of scenarios. Its really good for stuff like cera and maybe omni who deal with things slightly bigger than themselves and now have extra hp to tank a hit or 2 more.

[viscid mica]

I dunno it lets me tank a dilo bite as troodon that’s pretty big imo

[hasty coyote]

it doesnt though, its a 15% reduction, which means you have an effective health of 69 (60*1.15) and dilo bite does 85, so you still die if its a body hit.

though it does save you from an omni bite, which is pretty nice

[knotty stratus]

#balance-feedback message @sullen citrus
Carno ram hitbox is fine first ram didnt even register (no damage dealed to you) second ram clearly just hit you.

[shrewd jungle]

no dude trust me the carno was actually in narnia, i didn't do a right angle turn directly in front of it or anything like that

[crimson crater]

desync

[keen plover]

I mean we wouldn't be able to tell. Their screen is red already

Could have been a tail tip hit tbh

[rotund whale]

now that's actually dumb, lol

[iron tree]

@sullen citrus it's not the hitbox, it's desync

[shrewd jungle]

i mean if you account for the fact that the omni would've been practically at the carno's head fractions of a second before the hit registered, yeah it looks like a desync issue, not hitbox

[slim dragon]

Game was better when tail hitboxes were bugged out

[viscid mica]

Na the hitbox is still the 1.8 carno hitbox so it’s a lot bigger than it should be

[shrewd jungle]

big if true
get it
get it

[crimson crater]

#balance-feedback message it depends on the playables, being unviable solo ain’t fun

[cosmic pelican]

Pachy still crying in the corner

[dusky surge]

result of being a "herd animal"

[shadow vortex]

If with Elders aging won’t be an option like dying of old age, it could help with hunting herds by actually bringing in an opportunity to isolate such weak members I think… Being unviable solo is not fun though, yep.

Pachy and Maia literally just need several fixes to see how they go with them, but they’re taking so long it’s getting quite uneasy, oh…

[viscid mica]

@broken light Like what is down right stronger than stuff in its own weight class? Teno while good solo can easily get picked off if not careful?

[indigo rain]

Cerato technically. It doesnt have a stam cost on its charge bite, has a free one-hit stun on most animals (vomit) that it can do over and over with massive damage and bleed, and can be faster than teno. Comparably, teno has 300 more hp that doesnt really help make up the diff if a cerato catches it out and just starts biting.

Its 1 extra bites worth of hp quite literally

But, cerato is also the corpse bully. Its supposed to be, but its a little too good at hunting for some folks preferences.

[viscid mica]

Teno can 1v1 cera if your at least decent

And it’s not stam cost

I sweat to god I’ve said what cera issue is to you before

Vomit animation lock remove that fixes cera free hit wombo combos

[indigo rain]

It can yes. Hence why i said caught out. And agreed

[viscid mica]

Tbh teno can 3v1 cera if it’s a super high skill teno

[indigo rain]

Most dinos can pull some rather hilarious shenanigans if super skilled. Ive killed a sub ptera on hypsi before lmao.

Thing is with that feedback i think theyre trying to 1v1 stuff(?), which its absolutely possible- metta 1v1d two dibbles on cerato among other things during one of her streams while teaching combat which is WAY above ceratos weight class. But its also extremely possible to be screaming in fear and fighting for your life. Fear isnt just running away and some dinos just arent built to do that

Cant do much when the feedback is so nonspecific to the situation that inspired it (was it over a body, are thry complaining about just getting charged, etc). The only dinos in the same weight class are technically cerato and teno or carno and teno, and cerato is a 50/50 if its two average players

[viscid mica]

POV people don’t think you can kill a dibble 1v1 as troodon me who’s been grinding it out and got one to red health

I’m so close

I can smell it feel it hear it!

[indigo rain]

DAMN LOL

[viscid mica]

@steep echo real!

[maiden temple]

With perfect ping and if the ceras are silly going at it 1by1 yeah

[viscid mica]

Oh na mine freind you have not seen Truely high skilled tenos if you think it requires that

Some these teno mains out here be insanely good

[maiden temple]

Most of my hours are teno, I fought everything and cera groups are the worst matchup

[viscid mica]

Doesn’t make you the best teno

How many skilled carnos do you think you can handle at once?

[maiden temple]

yes only being your friend makes me best

[viscid mica]

Na the best teno I know I’m not friends with

[maiden temple]

3 with terrain advantage

[viscid mica]

Top teno I’ve seen can do 4 and no even be below orange

[maiden temple]

Never catch me on flat land fighting carnos

[viscid mica]

That’s ideal carno turf fighting as well

Teno skill cap is insanely high

There are some nutty teno players out there

[maiden temple]

You're sounding silly now, I doubt 4 good carnos would struggle AT ALL

[viscid mica]

While I’m certainly not the best I’m def better than most of the carnos I’ve encountered on official and trust me bro cooks

[maiden temple]

If smart enough they can even sacrifice one just to make sure they get the kill fast

[viscid mica]

If the teno falls for the bait

Most of the best tenos do nothing but kick

[maiden temple]

Doesn't need to.. You have 4 bulls. Rush it, one takes all the damage, rest noms

[viscid mica]

Oh man you ain’t seen top 1% teno if you think that

[maiden temple]

I used to love carno when I could brawl, now it's a bit too boring

[viscid mica]

Like the tenos at the level I’m thinking are rare and few but I know it’s possible

I know 3 teno mains too of my head that can easily take 3 cera

[maiden temple]

I bet it's possible, just not against good carnos/ceras

[viscid mica]

Smart cera

My sweet innocent child hasn’t seen the true sweats at work yet

I know a teno duo who target dibble groups FG trios plus

Teno skill cap is the highest in the game by far

[maiden temple]

Yeah only been playing for 6 years and went through pvp events. I know nothing

[viscid mica]

If you think teno can’t handle a 3v1 of cera I’d say you simply haven’t figured the strat yet

Hold @worthy steeple don’t you have clips of you massacring cera as teno ? Or am I thinking your carno 3v1 ?

[maiden temple]

I can beat silly casuals, I can't eat that much damage and live if it's a good group

[viscid mica]

ALOT of casuals on cera really are awful I’ll agree and the few times you cross skilled groups is rare

Lost a FG dibble to a skilled trio recently much sadge

Some these 6 man cera groups be getting cleaned out by tenos fr fr

[maiden temple]

#balance-feedback message
I feel this so much but it's part of the risk. Your attempts to protect either benefit the babu or the carnivores :c

Plus, friedly fire is a good way to beat big groups!

[viscid mica]

100%^

Can’t imagine if stegos did less damage to eachother stego groups would be OP even against apex’s

[worthy steeple]

it was 3v1 and i did another 4v1 few days ago, but didn’t record that. i usually record only the parts when i kill em so i make epic montage with cera dying sound at some point

well, tbf it was more like 2 adults and 2 subs

[viscid mica]

Ya like I said too skill cap super high

[worthy steeple]

yeah teno skill cap is crazy

[iron tree]

@crimson crater wake up

cheesy is already here

[viscid mica]

XD question anyone who knows the game knows pachy is awful right?

[iron tree]

so...cera rework

why did we never think of that

[viscid mica]

Just remove animation lock on vomit BOOM problem solved

[iron tree]

WHAT IF...we nerf charged bite's damage to 250 and give it its slide back..BUT major buff its alt attacks

[iron tree]

not really

cerato is good at everything rn

and it's supposed to be defensive

[worthy steeple]

i think i figured why pachy is that slow

[viscid mica]

It’s when it was actually OP so stuff could escape

[iron tree]

but if its alt attacks deal tons of damage and are quite fast

[viscid mica]

Now it’s not OP

[iron tree]

it'd actually be defensive

[worthy steeple]

pachy being only slightly faster and than the cera or teno makes it impossible for pachy packs to hunt them, since even if you run and headbutt you will only ever hit the tail hitbox

[worthy steeple]

yes lol, reading my mind

[viscid mica]

Ya but the pachy experience is now terrible sense it got nuked and if anyone who’s played the game and played it should know that

[worthy steeple]

that’s for sure

i like how pachy is the weakest playable with the strongest ability in the game

[iron tree]

at least allow pachy to stun on fracture

[worthy steeple]

btw about the pachy trot

i tested and it slightly faster than tenos z walk LMAO

[crimson crater]

?

[viscid mica]

It’s genuinely awful

Pachy should be something you as a lower weight carni think twice about attacking due to the potential ramifications

[iron tree]

#balance-feedback-discussion message

defensive cera.

[crimson crater]

the major buffs to the alt attack better be enough to compensate making the charged bite useless

[worthy steeple]

but i guess there’s a reason they did that, pachy is balanced the way so it breaks stuff and then runs away. i guess the trot is slow so any other animal can trot away from them even if they break it and decide to hunt.

but more i think about pachy and its problems the more i understand why they added all that awful stuff.

imo it’s impossible to rework or buff the pachy without reworking the fractures first

[viscid mica]

It was cuz it was OP and stun locking everything

[worthy steeple]

exactly what i want from pachy, tho tbf it does break carno/omni/dilo on first headbutt

[viscid mica]

Now it takes like 20 hits to leg break a cera

[iron tree]

well they should be fast and do like 190 damage

[worthy steeple]

it takes 2 but yeah

[crimson crater]

ceras got fracture resistance

[viscid mica]

Carno only if you hit the leg and even then the hitbox is super inconsistent

[viscid mica]

2 if the game decides to respect you hits

Unfortunately I play official mainly so the hitboxes are funky

[crimson crater]

190? that’s almost as much as a regular bite

[viscid mica]

No idea why

[iron tree]

But instead of a recovery animation you can instantly bite after performing the alt attack

[crimson crater]

because pachies shouldn’t be going after ceras

[worthy steeple]

250 is too much, i would nerf it maximum to 300, (450) so it can still one shot an omni with headshot

[viscid mica]

Cera shouldn’t be faster than pachy forced to use photo because of them

[iron tree]

true actually

[worthy steeple]

i don’t like the current 345 damage, but 250 is just insanely low.

i would rather address the bacteria, vomit lock and other stuff i dislike more

[crimson crater]

ceras dmg is fine, if you want a dino to work defensively it gotta have the tools to be able to stand its ground and trade. its hp ain’t enough for that

[iron tree]

it was just some silly idea I had to make cera..well..defensive

[viscid mica]

Cera really isn’t op by default it’s the animation lock that makes it so much stronger

[worthy steeple]

i wouldn’t really say the cera is defensive.

i think cera is more like offensive defense

[viscid mica]

If it was slightly slower and no animation lock I’m certain they’d be forced to be less proactive hunters

But same time any slower and allo will make life way harder for them

[iron tree]

cera was supposed to be defensive

[worthy steeple]

it should not be slower than the allo😳

[crimson crater]

yes but we want ceras to work better defensively, nerfing its dmg would make it worse at that than it already is

[worthy steeple]

i mean maybe, but that doesn’t really matter much

[viscid mica]

Allo should max at 38/37 IMO

[worthy steeple]

that’s what i was thinking it should be

[iron tree]

that's why strong alt attacks could make it more defensive

[viscid mica]

Out rightly nerfing its damage won’t help it long term just bandaid the problem temporarily

[worthy steeple]

yeah, cera is getting a lot of free hits with the vomit animation, if we remove that i will be more than happy lol

[viscid mica]

I’m just trying tot thing about how other mid sized speed will be for stuff that is meant to be more agile

[crystal wharf]

strong alt attacks are a silly idea

[viscid mica]

Like with how close all the speeds are it’s rough

[iron tree]

why

[crimson crater]

fair

[iron tree]

It'd make cera defensive

[crystal wharf]

it doesnt really

[abstract yew]

Just speed up the vomit animations, boom

[iron tree]

without getting folded by carnos or dilos

[crystal wharf]

inflating the damage numbers of the alt attack doesnt make it more defensive, it just makes it so that they want to run up and face tank things

so they can spam alt attack

[worthy steeple]

just make it so you can still fight and you’re not locked

[iron tree]

I mean you can't use them while running

[crystal wharf]

no, you cant

but if you dont remove the vomit lock aswell, then they will alt attack spam to get more damage

just buffing the alt attack and adding back the slide does very little to nerf cerato into being "defensive"

[viscid mica]

Or remove animation lock so you can still sprint

[crystal wharf]

a whole lot less than adding a stamina cost to repeated charge bites would, in addition to nerfing/removing the vomit lock

[steep otter]

Keep the busted damage but make it so it cant run at top speed with charged bite

[crystal wharf]

or that ^

[iron tree]

yeah well

without a vomit lock stuff could escape

the alt attack buff was just a thought

[abstract yew]

Yup

[iron tree]

I think update 6.5 cera without the vomit lock and with the current stamina system would be fine

it wouldn't be hypercharged

and wouldn't get folded by carnos either

[crystal wharf]

me personally, i just want the vomit lock gone first

then for experiments to start with stamina cost on the charged bite if cerato is still a problem child

and then look at reimplementing the slide

rather than adding everything at once and turning cerato into carno or pachy

[iron tree]

carno is actually fine

it could use some buffs but it's not doing bad

unlike pachy

[worthy steeple]

same, that’s the thing i hate the most

[worthy steeple]

hey carno is good, stop saying that about my boy.

[hasty coyote]

thats a bug, you arent able to hit the tail hitbox if they are standing still, you will just clip through it and hit the body. While they are running, your client thinks you hit, but the game decides "nuh uh" and doenst deal damage.

[crystal wharf]

its an example of something that has been overly nerfed in the past to a point of near uselessness

[worthy steeple]

ahhh lol

[worthy steeple]

well idk, carno is my favorite carnivore since it’s rework, i used to hate it

[hasty coyote]

also this, fractures are OP in every sense and can't be balanced on a dino with literally any combat capability. Like imagine if cera had fractures on charged bite instead of bile, think of how many nerfs it would need to even come close to fair.

[crystal wharf]

i think its rework is a step in the right direction for it, the rest of its stats need to catch up though, like its growth time, hunger, speed, etc

[hasty coyote]

yeah I much prefer new carno, it def needs tweaks but its much better at actually hunting small game without needing specific weaknesses due to its insane weight.

[haughty grotto]

@sullen citrus that carno hit you directly in the body, what's wrong with it?
That first tail hit didn't even register (raptors scream at near misses)

[viscid mica]

Think it was the hits prior

The one that hit its tail for a full omni away

[haughty grotto]

There's only one hit prior and it wasn't even a hit, it didn't do anything

[viscid mica]

It hit and the omni made noise it did do damage

[hasty coyote]

it looked like a tail tip hit to me, so it dealt like 10% damage (aka like 17 damage)

[worthy steeple]

yes, that’s why i said this #balance-feedback-discussion message

[haughty grotto]

Come on bruv you play Omni regularly just like me
Omnis make noises with tail tip hits and near misses all the time despite taking extremely little / no damage

[viscid mica]

Fair but the fact it registered still is silly

[hasty coyote]

I have been saying it for so long too
#balance-feedback message
#balance-feedback message
#balance-feedback message

[worthy steeple]

yeah there’s one that is upvoted by me, which means i saw it before

[viscid mica]

Fr pachy suggestions get so many upvotes tbh im copy and pasting my own suggestions from ages ago again XD changing some minor stuff

[hasty coyote]

if only pachy gets any attention to the many issues plaguing it

[iron tree]

it is possible

[viscid mica]

One day one day

Won’t lie thou beyond the usual suspects who down vote anything I post there is one dude who is new new so I think he might not have played pachy yet tbh

[iron tree]

let it stun on fracture. Boom. Good pachy

[viscid mica]

NO NO NO MO

Not pachy HT all over

That’s why it got nuked!

Stun lock

[iron tree]

you can get stunned three times

[hasty coyote]

stun on fracture is fine, because then it only gets 3 stuns and its done

honestly thats one of the main things I want for it

[iron tree]

if it could do that it's fine

it could get away

[worthy steeple]

NO LOL

[viscid mica]

Pachy HT PTSD is a real thing pachy was absurdly op

[iron tree]

why? 😭

it gets three stuns

it doesn't really need a speed buff

mutations just make pachy's life harder

[hasty coyote]

Just make getting a fracture inflict a stun, for any reason. So it really helps break and run, but the pachies who want to stay and beat to death still have to slog through without stuns. Especially if they nerf fractures overall, like make leg fracture not disable alts. So a leg fractured dino can still trade hits.

It also makes fall damage feel more impactful since rather than just randomly starting to limp, you actually get stunned and feel an impact (like herrera), and makes sense for future fracture dinos who may be more combat oriented and could use stuns, but shouldnt be able to spam them.

[hasty coyote]

it kinda does imo, prob not major, but up to like 43 would be MUCH better, since theres literally a 1kph difference between cera and pachy, which is insane.

[iron tree]

okay 43 is alright

but pachy being too fast is kinda ehh

I love pachy but it doesn't really have to be able to catch up to omnis

[hasty coyote]

yeah it should be relatively slow for its size since its supposed to bully things in its own tier, not not cera/teno slow.

[hasty coyote]

in zio's suggestion it was still only 45, and omni's speed is like 46.8 iirc

[iron tree]

imo that's too fast

[hasty coyote]

it is a bit too fast, especially with the other buffs, but it wouldnt be game breaking.

[iron tree]

I mean omnis would have to fight pachies

as running away won't shake them off that easily anymore

[hasty coyote]

even at 45, omnis would have a greater speed advantage than pachy has against cera, and pachies can't track and dont have bleed. So the moment they lose line of sight, that omni is gone

[iron tree]

pachies can track

[hasty coyote]

plus omnis can def fight a pachy:#isle-discussion message

[hasty coyote]

no they can't???? only carnivores have tracking

[iron tree]

herbivores can track

[hasty coyote]

no? they can smell blood, yes, but they can't track footprints

but pachy doesnt deal bleed

so it literally has no way to track

[iron tree]

oh

[worthy steeple]

imo if they rework the fractures they won’t need to make pachy what it is right now.

[hasty coyote]

yeah fractures need a rework before they even try buffing pachy

[worthy steeple]

yeah, that’s what i was thinking about, because it’s so easy to make pachy op accidentally

[hasty coyote]

because even just removing the self stun makes a leg fractured dino just die with 0 way to fight back the moment 2 pachies exist

[worthy steeple]

exactly

[iron tree]

omni really isn't fun atm 😭

[worthy steeple]

tbf even the current pachies are terrifying in numbers, i got 3 hostile pachies on me the other day and they basically neutralized my teno with 2 headbutts, can’t kick = can’t deal damage. tail slam does 100, which is a lot less if they have the mutation and they also got headshot damage reduction

i somehow managed to kick all 3 of them before they broke my leg, so they were forced to retreat and heal the bleed, but if there were more pachies i would be dead lol

[hasty coyote]

def, even with horrendous stats, they still have the most op abilities in the game

[worthy steeple]

yeah

body + leg fracture leave teno with just 35 damage bites lmao

[hasty coyote]

+head and now you deal 17.5 lmao