balance-feedback-discussion

[deft blaze]

Look if they managed to get behind you then the turns table

[leaden remnant]

ha i got your ass get ready

give me tthat ass 😭

OH MY LORD IM ACTUALLY DYING

[deft blaze]

It takes great skill to ride the ass of a rex and not die

[leaden remnant]

HELP ME

[deft blaze]

I feel like you aren’t taking my feedback seriously

[leaden remnant]

IM GENUINELY GONNA DIE

[leaden remnant]

no im not i believe legacy combat was the worst thing ever

[halcyon elk]

Go to tartarus you tailriding supporter

[leaden remnant]

it took a lotta skill but it was horrendous

[deft blaze]

But it’s so much fun obviously, how can’t you see that

[halcyon elk]

It was not fun you oil barrel.

[leaden remnant]

ive never laughed so much

im crying right now

[deft blaze]

How was it not?

Haven’t you seen those videos of omnis tail riding with the awesome anime music in the back? that’s the kind of thing I would love to see more of

[halcyon elk]

Because it wasn't.

[deft blaze]

Explain your reasoning

[halcyon elk]

I will not. Because it does not need it. You're wrong and I will not discuss any further.

[leaden remnant]

okay im gonna vomit

im laughing way too hard

[deft blaze]

Well that seems awfully rude of you

[halcyon elk]

I do not discuss with DOCKTAHS

[leaden remnant]

hopelessly watch as you lose your rex to an utah

[deft blaze]

Look just say you were bad at tail riding

Its okay

[halcyon elk]

Docktah found, opinion immediately rejected.

[leaden remnant]

i never knew ppl actually liked tail riding

is it the feeling of killing a rex as an utah?

[halcyon elk]

You know he's trolling right? I'm just doing a bit.

[leaden remnant]

he gotta be trollin

[deft blaze]

I’m fully serious

[leaden remnant]

no chance

[deft blaze]

Dead serious, there’s never been a more innovative combat system than legacy

[leaden remnant]

impossible

he be trollin

tail raiding was the most awful thing ever invented

[deft blaze]

I think maybe there are worse things

[leaden remnant]

absolutely not

[deft blaze]

Like perhaps the atomic bomb

[leaden remnant]

nope

[deft blaze]

It’s a bit of an overreaction don’t you think

Tail riding was a perfectly fine system

Sure it had shortcomings but it was inherently well done

[leaden remnant]

nope

sire stop trolling!!!!!!!!!!

[deft blaze]

I’m not trolling

I’m sharing my honest feedback

[leaden remnant]

no sire u r trollin!!

abbsolutely nobody in this world believes that tail riding is good

[deft blaze]

Uh, I do

[leaden remnant]

no sire

[deft blaze]

So does my Apex galli gang, we all play galli and tail ride apexes and kill them

It’s awesome, never had more fun

[leaden remnant]

💀

[halcyon elk]

This has just GOTTA be bait. Don't feed the trolls guys.

[dusky surge]

well well well

mr legacy himself

[deft blaze]

Well we do usually have one galli bait them while the rest of us tail ride

[deft blaze]

I’m not Mr legacy I’m just a tail rider

[alpine plover]

#balance-feedback message

Better?

[dusky surge]

poor wave

[keen plover]

LOL

[dusky surge]

got pinged by accident

[alpine plover]

Oh lmao rip mb 💀

[deft blaze]

I think the way to make it better is to allow it to tail ride again

[leaden remnant]

um i never came to an agreement btw

i still support dilo being one of the slowest dinos

[alpine plover]

I never said I just said you were apart of the discussion

[leaden remnant]

rahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

this mfer has no rivalry

[deft blaze]

I think it should be able to tail ride though

[leaden remnant]

i-

i will tail ride you for eternity

[dusky surge]

dilo actually was very good at tailriding

[deft blaze]

You can try but I (a proud member of the apex galli gang) am far superior

[deft blaze]

Obviously why it should be able to do it again

[dusky surge]

i remember in legacy when i was outskilled by a superior player (dilo) as a rex because they tailrode me and i died

and when a friend intervened it was a rulebreak so they got warned

[leaden remnant]

i will pin you down as rappie and finish that

[dusky surge]

that was an exhilarating combat experience

[deft blaze]

Oh yeah the rules, I love body down so much

It gives you a much needed break after a tough fight

[dusky surge]

pin, tailride, what's the difference?

[leaden remnant]

can't defend yourself when being pinned

[dusky surge]

:)

[leaden remnant]

:>

[deft blaze]

So tail riding is more fair

[leaden remnant]

i will absolutely murder you

tail ride was the most atrocious thing in existence

[dusky surge]

tailriding is more fair tho by this rule

[leaden remnant]

i would rather have dilo get 100km/h than have tail riding in evrima

[dusky surge]

he's actually not wrong

[leaden remnant]

i mean he aint wrong tho

[leaden remnant]

and carno kill you by looking at you

[deft blaze]

Exactly

Tail riding is clearly a superior system because you can still defend yourself

[leaden remnant]

my lord how the hell do u even like that

losin 4 hours to a dino that should be unable to fight u cause there's a broken way to do it 😭

[deft blaze]

I never lose 4 hours because I never play anything larger than mid tier

[leaden remnant]

@rappie mains unite against this man

[dusky surge]

pounce to pin

[leaden remnant]

bro

[deft blaze]

It’s sub-optimal to play a large dinosaur

[leaden remnant]

thing is you aint wrong by syaing that

[halcyon elk]

BACK TO LEGACY WITH YE.

[deft blaze]

Tail riding is just clearly better

[leaden remnant]

well ig you have alt bites to protect yourslef

[halcyon elk]

This is wrong you oil barrel.

[deft blaze]

If it were my apex galli gang in that video we would have won

[halcyon elk]

Cry about not being able to tailride anymore

[deft blaze]

Oh I just play legacy

[halcyon elk]

Can't wait for the day legacy is deleted.

[deft blaze]

Yeah then they’ll bring tail riding back into the game

[halcyon elk]

No they won't. Because tailriding is cringe and is done by docktahs

[deft blaze]

Clearly you just cannot tail ride at an optimal level

[halcyon elk]

Clearly you don't own an air fryer.

[deft blaze]

I’ve spent hours training to tail ride with my gang, I don’t need an air fryer when I’m just the best at tail riding

[deft blaze]

You’d be surprised to know that I actually shower quite often

[halcyon elk]

But you still are smelly. I think it's because you tail ride.

[deft blaze]

There’s nothing wrong with tail riding

I’m thinking this may just be a skill issue on your part

[leaden remnant]

you already got a tail fryer

[halcyon elk]

There is, it is very smelly.

[deft blaze]

I don’t think it smells to tail ride, I mean how does that even work

[halcyon elk]

It makes you smelly

[deft blaze]

But how, I think you’re just unnecessarily hating the system because you can’t engage with it due to a lack of personal skill

Maybe if you practiced like me and the apex galli gang you’d be able to

[halcyon elk]

I dislike tail riding because it's dumb.

It looks dumb, it feels dumb, it is dumb

Now silence docktah.

[deft blaze]

I think you just can’t make a constructive argument that doesn’t only insult the system without actually pointing out any flaws

[halcyon elk]

Ok let me point out a flaw: In no way shape or form, should a rex or large animal not be able to pivot and or turn around and bite something. Animals do it all the time, and it makes it so something as small as a solo utahraptor can kill a fully growth rex with ease. Which in my opinion is a bad system, since there should be fights where a dinosaur is physically incapable of winning fighting wise.

[deft blaze]

Ok, I can understand that criticism, but there is still ways to kill tail riders as a large creature. I think perhaps if you trained with my apex galli gang you’d soon master all the techniques we have for dealing with tail riders ourselves

[halcyon elk]

Well, that's another thing, gallimimus should not be fighting rexes. I should know, I main gallimimus in evrima.

[deft blaze]

Look I don’t have all the time in the world to discuss this with you, I have to be ready for my training session tomorrow so I’m leaving now

[leaden remnant]

@empty solstice the night is gonna be shorter and lighting made so that you can see

[empty solstice]

Oo! Alright. Fun :D

[leaden remnant]

yis

[empty solstice]

Ty ty

[leaden remnant]

iirc it should be finished soonish

[empty solstice]

Stamina is still bad

[leaden remnant]

agreed

punch said it's cause a few ppl trolled with it they decided to nerf the whole dino to the ground

and also they don't get stamina while gliding cause they dont want it to be airborne permanently (not like anything eats pteras anyways)

[empty solstice]

new airborne predator too anywho

Soon TM

[dusky surge]

#balance-feedback message

LMAO

[alpine plover]

@noble shore how is my idea ruining dilo

This has got to be bait

[dusky surge]

This man will never not take an opportunity to ask for teno nerfs

[frail bobcat]

bro cant stop yapping about teno

[noble shore]

@stark knoll i didnt use to comment, i used it to comment and PROPOSE something as well, why u deleted it?

[dusky surge]

Given the fact I have consistently hunted tenonto as dilo, does that mean that dilo is stronger and thus even MORE OP?

Hell, nerf omni and troodon, I can consistently hunt tenonto as those two as well

[alpine plover]

Still I’m curious as to how the changes I proposed would make dilo redundant 😭

[dusky surge]

Nerf carnivore = bad
Nerf herbivore = good

Get with it

[noble shore]

thats YOUR train of thought for each proposal

but other round

[dusky surge]

Not true

[frail bobcat]

you have been proposing the same downvoted idea for weeks every day now. start to realise that the community does not like your idea and please stop using #balance-feedback as your personal Groundhog Day

[dusky surge]

I think there are several carnivores that need buffs. Carno, cerato, troodon are the most outstanding

I don't think any carni actually needs a nerf right now

[noble shore]

community, 5-10 people that sit all day here and discuss how to ruin more carnivores

[dusky surge]

Besides maybe dilo

[frail bobcat]

I know one person here that keeps sitting in here to whine about teno being op

[noble shore]

i just enter some moments to cringe and laugh

[dusky surge]

[halcyon elk]

"Ruin more carnivores" my brother in replicator dilo is still incredibly strong, slightly adjusting the mechanics so dilo has to take risks (ie going in to get more hallucinations) and slightly reducing the damage, doesn't destroy dilo, just makes it a little less dominating.

[dusky surge]

You seem to seethe more than either of those two

[noble shore]

discuss better for teno and how strong it is and leave the still fucntional carnivores out of your kids brains

[dusky surge]

You know dilo can pretty consistently kill teno, right?

Does that mean dilo is more OP

[noble shore]

i m mad actually cause of this particular mod that deleted my proposal

[dusky surge]

Maybe just propose rather than making half a feedback post dedicated to shutting down someone's ideas before yapping about tenonto again

Despite knowing that you're the only person who seriously has that much trouble with them

Because I can hunt them. Others can hunt them. It's not the devs fault you can't.

[frail bobcat]

#balance-feedback message
#balance-feedback message
#general-feedback message
atleast I dont post the same feedback three times in a row

[dusky surge]

he got muted. I'm sure he shared some delightful insight with some colourful words

[frail bobcat]

surely

[dusky surge]

legit amazing how a fictional depiction of a dinosaur infests his mind so

[halcyon elk]

I will talk with the guy, just for a simple discussion

[dusky surge]

you can literally 2v1 teno as omni or dilo

(i have done it)

tenonto doesn't do well with small, agile things in all honesty. Hell, troodon swarms really mess them up

Could teno do with a nerf to the sheer amount of attacks it can do? Yes
Does tenonto need a nerf in it's, quote "insane dmg, insane bleed, insane cc (stuns, knockbacks), insane stamina, insane max group for how strong it is, can jump and stay safe on unreachable terrains, and its very very fast on land and water"? No. It's a generalist. It does a lot of things decently, but none of it particularly well.

[ruby gull]

in what universe is that an argument you can use, those tenos must be absolutely horrible for that to happen

[dusky surge]

It was a skilled teno, I know this because I know the teno player. They have thousands of hours. So no, that’s not an argument you can make

[frail bobcat]

do I know the teno?

[ruby gull]

Oh you mean 2 Omnis vs 1 Teno? that explains a bit more

[dusky surge]

Either

Dilo has it easier tbh

[ruby gull]

Is it just me that thinks teno is very balanced

[halcyon elk]

I think it is too, for its niche it's really well made.

[ruby gull]

like something being strong isn't really a problem that just how game balance is, some characters will always be a bit stronger than average

Cera can 1v1 them, carno can 1v1 them, 2 dilos/omnis and so on...

that Mr carno guy was overreacting a bit lol

[halcyon elk]

I mean for carno it depends on skill. Teno can dunk on carno pretty well if the teno knows what it's doing.

[ruby gull]

Yeahhh carno vs teno is a very bad matchup for the carno but its still possible due to them being in the same weightclass thats all im saying

[halcyon elk]

Yea, it's hard for carno, possible, but hard.

[halcyon elk]

@stark knoll wait why did you perma mute the guy?

[alpine plover]

I think he started insulting someone

[slim dragon]

Like all perma muted people
He spoke the truth

[halcyon elk]

I mean I don't think he was? He was just talking

[frail bobcat]

maybe because he was being disrespectful through multiple conversations

[alpine plover]

Oh right yeah he told me Lunary thought he insulted someone but idk he probably has to make like a report or smth

[sweet verge]

When considering offense and defense, the Teno is currently the apex of the isle. If you held a tournament for non-heavy 1v1s, the winner would be using Teno. Stego and Deino pose no threat as they are too heavy to force a fight. The most feared creature to come across shouldn't be an herbivore.

[slim dragon]

Why not

[sweet verge]

The last sentence was an opinion. I believe the creatures that evolved to kill should be the best at killing.

[slim dragon]

Well teno, stego and pachy are also creatures evolved to kill
Pachy a bit less since it's more fracture and run on most things, but still

[sweet verge]

I should have said 'evolved to eat what they kill' but you make a good point.

[slim dragon]

What they eat isn't relevant here

[cosmic pelican]

Tenonto cant force a fight either, the only thing it can actively threaten is cerato

[tropic horizon]

because they dont have sharp teeth or eat meat

[slim dragon]

The survival strategy of carnivores is to kill other things to feed off them
The survival strategy of large herbivores is to kill whatever is trying to feed off them before they get themselves killed

[tropic horizon]

the herbivores must live in fear clearly

[sweet verge]

It is. Teno doesn't need to kill to live. Killing isn't a required part of gameplay like it is with Carnivores.

[slim dragon]

It is, otherwise how would it survive an encounter with a carnivore ?
It's slower than any of them, bar deino, so it cannot run away

[tropic horizon]

this is hilarious honestly, like theres no other reason besides "they eat grass"

[sweet verge]

An herbivore as apex predator is oxymoronic.

[slim dragon]

Name one terrestrial ecosystem that doesn't have a herbivore as the strongest and largest thing around

[tropic horizon]

teno cant even "hunt" anything its awful at that. just because there is an apex predator in an ecosystem doesnt automatically make it the most dangerous thing there.

[slim dragon]

Bar the antarctic, which cannot support large herbivores at all

[tropic horizon]

Just looking at the saharan ecosystem should tell you all you need to know really. Like, all of the most feared things there are herbivores.

[slim dragon]

Like mosquitoes

[tropic horizon]

I forgor

[slim dragon]

No your statement is right
Mosquitoes are herbivores
Only egg-bearing females eat anything other than nectar

[sweet verge]

I only raised to point to suggest that, if the winners of a battle royal are always using the same gun, the gun is overpowered. Teno wins a 1v1 to the death at equal skill level with anything that isn't Stego or Deino, and that isn't balanced for a video game.

[slim dragon]

It doesn't tho

The only animals in its size range, that should try to 1v1 it, are cerato and carno
And both can win this fight

[leaden remnant]

here in spain herbis are the big bois tho

[slim dragon]

Although they're not at an advantage, which makes sense because they control the engagement

[leaden remnant]

i mean sure we have lynx and wolves but we also got boars

[halcyon elk]

Tell that to the cape buffalo.

[leaden remnant]

i don't think i have to explain why boars are mentally frickin insane

[halcyon elk]

The ones in north America are unhinged.

[slim dragon]

(not herbivores)

[leaden remnant]

shoot them with a shotgun and still standing going after you

[sweet verge]

It does. I hosted a private deathmatch server with friends and Teno was the obvious choice.

[leaden remnant]

well tbf ig you're right

however the ones here in spain practically never eat meat

[slim dragon]

But the boundary between "herbivore" and "uhhhh idk I just eat what comes across" is very thin

[halcyon elk]

Other than a few animals barely any herbivores are obligate.

[leaden remnant]

pretty much yes

[tropic horizon]

Truly terrifying.

[leaden remnant]

like the only thing that can pose a true threat in spain that is a carnivore are vipers and even then they're small and non-lethal

[slim dragon]

Yeah the only true herbivores are animals that physically cannot eat anything else
Like butterflies

[leaden remnant]

however we have bulls here

[halcyon elk]

If I may say this, the animals in the roster rn aren't made to be equipped to hunt a teno solo.

[leaden remnant]

i mean tbf we have no dinos rn compared to what's coming

the "ecosystem" isn't balanced at all right now

[tropic horizon]

At least without an ambush, because thats a very easy way to get the upper hand on a teno and you should be opting for that 9 times out of 10

[leaden remnant]

so i somewhat agree witht you

the only thing that in my opinion gets an easy kill is cera

(cera vs teno)

[tropic horizon]

well, no, not at all really.

[leaden remnant]

r u sure

[tropic horizon]

very

[leaden remnant]

cera is tanky can deal inmense damage and make teno vomit

also is pretty agile (but slow as hell)

so i would say it's definetely a teno hunter

[tropic horizon]

cera has a full 300 less health than teno and its strongest attack is literally suicide to land unless youve bitten the teno several times already

[leaden remnant]

wat

um you can just bait an attack and bite his head

i don't think that's difficult at all

[tropic horizon]

with a charge bite? no, you cant. you simply cannot. The teno will spin around and kick you in the face right afterwards

[leaden remnant]

wat

ive never seen that happen

and ive killed a good bunch of tenos as cera

[tropic horizon]

have you never fought like, a decently good teno as cerato

[leaden remnant]

yeah

you slide when you do the charge bite tho so it's impossible for him to spin and kick you in the head

[tropic horizon]

I have too, like plenty and mostly because they sucked

[halcyon elk]

You don't slide anymore

[leaden remnant]

waht

[tropic horizon]

you slide right in range of his kick and he'll stun you there and follow it up with two headshots

[leaden remnant]

oh well yes if you miss the charge bite miserably ofc

[halcyon elk]

I thought they recently patched that out

[tropic horizon]

the game has been patched? thats not in yet as far as I know

[tropic horizon]

no?

[stark knoll]

They're going to

[leaden remnant]

but unless you can bite him without being kicked in the face you're good

[stark knoll]

But it's still in as of right now

[tropic horizon]

even if you land you'll still get kicked in the face

[leaden remnant]

uh

[sweet verge]

Teno has enough HP to tank the hit, and then stun and abuse your face

[leaden remnant]

i've never seen it happen

[tropic horizon]

you have to play insanely carefully against teno as a cera to win otherwise you'll die in like, 10 seconds

[sweet verge]

A tit-for-tat with a teno is a loss

[tropic horizon]

you are fighting some truly awful tenos then

[leaden remnant]

i am so confused right now

no sometimes im the teno and i can't do what you guys say

like it's genuinely impossible to do a 180 in 0.1 seconds to land a headshot

[tropic horizon]

you just spin and kick them? like you start the kicking animation as you turn around and thatll hit him.

[leaden remnant]

ive watched fights from actually very good teno players and that's never happened wth

ive seen em try but the cera just slid off

[tropic horizon]

not good tenos

[leaden remnant]

top tier tenos

i mean idk what to say im thinking of skill issue but

[tropic horizon]

Ive played both sides of this fight and you just sound like you're fighting some absolutely horrendous tenos ngl

Like a good teno wont just instantly start tail slamming you, theyll start chasing at you with bites most of the time and will dare you to do something about it because if you turn around to bite them at the wrong time, they'll spin around and kick you in the face

[leaden remnant]

might be the case, idk

[tight cove]

Yeah ngl bro it seems like your fighting bad teno players

@alpine plover your recent balence feedback idea is good but I don’t think it’s necessary right now simply because the clones are very simple to avoid right now, all you need is to go near water or a cliff edge and your safe.

[ancient hatch]

I was just watching a raptor vs teno show down

[leaden remnant]

probably, ive never seen that move

[tight cove]

I thought everyone knew not to start off a fight with a charge bite because you will just get stunned, everyone does the 3 bite method.

[unborn iris]

Yeah, they're about to fix that I think.

[leaden remnant]

@runic coral there's already some

[runic coral]

I think there’s 2 in total, (might be wrong though) and they’re both very far from the pond, closer to the north gate

[leaden remnant]

one is right at the lake sire

it's not big tho and a lil messy

and at a place where nobody drinks

... but uhm there are a few trees

also theres a few more close enough to the lake thta you can megabonkers people from there

[runic coral]

Never seen that one, but still, there’s mostly palm trees, and I think some different kinds of trees would be a good addition.

[unborn iris]

There's small non-palm trees all around the pond you can climb and sit in/on. It's already the only spot on the map you see herras.

[ruby gull]

@void coral herra doesnt need any buffs at all, you can basically 1 shot an omni/dilo if you do it on their head with enough height

not to mention the huge bleed it also does

[dusky surge]

@uncut trellis better idea: don’t add snipers

[uncut trellis]

Agreed won’t lie

@dusky surge off topic but do you by chance have those pics showing the default colors of the rugops model? I just know you tend to have these things

[dusky surge]

Nope lol

[uncut trellis]

Eh got it on isle discussion, nw tho

[slim dragon]

Even if not resistant to firearms, how would a sauropod "drop dead" from a lil guy with a sniper ?
I assume cama will have at least 20k health, that would require a lot of headshots to kill it

[deft blaze]

Probably won’t even have enough ammo

[slim dragon]

Gen 2s may not be physically be able to carry that much ammo on them

[deft blaze]

You would need a whole squad of guys loaded up to max and even then it might not die

[leaden remnant]

@shadow trout they dont ignore us

also tis feedbacks

technically the community created the isle

it was gonna be 3 species of carnivores vs 2 human species

no herbis no nothing

also the backcheck on raptor is gettin removed since we complained too much and they saw how bad it is rn

not to mention storms and stuff getting more light cus we complained too much

• less frequency as well

[shadow trout]

They keep working on the camera change (even when everyone say they don't want it)
I didn't mean that they don't listen to us at all. just I didn't got the feeling that they do **:) **

[slim dragon]

They only listen to people who are worth listening to
Not to people who shut down ideas before they even saw how it would look like

[shadow trout]

But we git a POV and a youtuber has a video with he playing with the new camera pov

[slim dragon]

It was an early WIP, which we know was changed a lot since then

[dusky surge]

no they weren't

any youtuber claiming they're "playing with the new POV" is lying

they're making stuff up for clicks, no youtuber has access to these changes

reaction bait 101 lol

[latent bay]

This is the best idea for firearms, tbh

Keep it to close range self defense weapons, mid-long range but lower caliber preferably arms (if they exist), and sidearms preferably of lower calibers

[dusky surge]

exactly

[latent bay]

If you give humans snipers and machine guns then the "horror" of our survival horror turns into "action"

[dusky surge]

yup

[latent bay]

Wavepoole when he's actually isle savior niche fr

[dusky surge]

i always am smh

i have a DEGREE in GAMES DESIGN smh

(as of today I have officially graduated lol)

[slim dragon]

congrats

[dusky surge]

finally

i am qualified to argue more in isle feedback discussion channels

officially so

[slim dragon]

It was worth it

[dusky surge]

my word trumps all (i have a degree)

[latent bay]

Congrats

Bro is now the most qualified to beat up the devs for their horrible mistakes lmao

[dusky surge]

Legit am qualified lol

[latent bay]

I think you're probably the most educated person I can say I've talked to about game design

Only exception is like, one of the BoB devs ig

[dusky surge]

i refuse to believe they are eduacted in Game Design lol

their choices baffle me

fundamentally so

[latent bay]

Agreed

The genus Mosasaurus is enough to prove such

[dusky surge]

not even that

the perk system is just

blegh

you can't add a "randomly kills you" thunderstorm mechanic, then pressure your community to get the "don't die instantly to lightning" perk to counteract your bad game design

[latent bay]

The perk system being flat stat increases is trashy

I think lightning is fine considering there are tells for when it's gonna happen, is what I would've said if it wasn't unnecessarily limiting and if they didn't add "dry lightning" which is literally just lightning but without the telltale sign of lightning

[dusky surge]

Gonna be honest, I feel BoB fails fundamentally Game Design wise, but they have dug a hole so large, they can't back out of their flaws

[latent bay]

In their defense I think that they do want to get away from those flaws

But due to those flaws existing to begin with, if they remove them their community bursts a blood vessel

Like they tried to make para actually cool looking back in 2020 and then they got death threats by their community

[halcyon elk]

Especially considering the older members of the community will send literal threats to them to change them back.

It's an absolute CIRCUS

Can't help but feel horrible

[latent bay]

Circus is an understatement

I've actively followed BoB'a development for the most part since 2020, and it gets WILD

[uncut trellis]

Yea, it’s more just what dondi has implied in some recent streams

[slim dragon]

What has he implied ?

[uncut trellis]

Just how helpless some Dino’s will be against guns

It’s weird cause it sounds like dondi thinks guns will hurt no matter what playable, then I hear other devs say they will probably just tick off the bigger ones

[halcyon elk]

I think it may a point of debate within the dev team

[uncut trellis]

Probably right, at this point ima wait and see

[slim dragon]

@solid belfry Literally planned

And currently in the works

[alpine plover]

@torn sky I actually made a balance suggestion similar to that for Dilo, and yeah one of them was that, here #balance-feedback message

[torn sky]

Nice!

[uncut trellis]

I like a lot of the suggestions in your post, but I don’t think dilos should be slower in speed or bite speed just cause it’s day

[cosmic pelican]

@strange spindle pretty much all of what you said is coming

[strange spindle]

YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

YEYEEEEEYEYEEESS

thats awesome

[leaden remnant]

rappie mains rejoice

[peak seal]

Yooooo fr???

Finally poor troos man

I can finally raise a troo army and actusll6 be effective at harassing things

[cosmic pelican]

Doubt Filipe would lie, so yeah

[peak seal]

Let's gooooo

Finally

[leaden remnant]

#balance-feedback message
carno being able to insta charge and knock down imo is a very bad idea only because gateway is so damn laggy that it'll insta knock everything over from 700m away, it should take 2 seconds to charge up till hitboxes and stuff are fixed, but the more nutrient and food thing for small prey is an amazing idea
i don't see how teno needs an increased stamina cost, it's fine right now (all of its attacks cost stamina while everyone has infinite attacks)
ptera getting a 2x damage thing is a horrible idea, if anything it should be 2x less damage, you just frickin megabonkers at everything that exists or doesn't even exist, you'd just be dying to nothing all the time, also 44 km/h? it's a bird it should be one of the slowest creatures on land it physically can't run that fast
i agree about the deino thing, very cool idea, however i'd increase the growth time to 6 hours, 8 hours is overexaggerated
pachy receiving any kind of stun thing is very very very bad, first cause pachy doesn't need a buff at all, second cause it allows the pachy to kill you with bonks when the only purpose of the bonk is to hit break a bone and run away, and we all know that pachies are mentally insane so they would be going around hunting more than carnivores do while having the ability to stun people
i agree with the galli thing
same with beipi thing
good idea for cera 👍

overall just a buncha good ideas imo but some are too risky to implement

[tall spear]

I feel like carno having both Stam cost for charge AND cool down is a bit much

Just make it so you have to be running for 3-5 seconds to charge

[misty rock]

carno make other carnivores look useless

why play cera when there is faster, stronger, bulkier and healthier alternative?

[drowsy thunder]

Why play Carno when have Dilo

[misty rock]

faster, stronger, bulkier and healthier ofc

[drowsy thunder]

Dilo is faster iirc

[misty rock]

isnt carno 55 dilo 47.5

[drowsy thunder]

Also Dilo's ability is pretty busted while Carno's charge is a bugged mess

[misty rock]

ability-wise dilo, cera, herrera has cooler abilities/playstyles

[drowsy thunder]

(and stronger)

[misty rock]

nah

at same skill level carno always got the strongest hand

[drowsy thunder]

How does Dilo's venom not beat out Carno charge

[misty rock]

dilo needs to be very careful. dilo player should be more experienced and better than the carno player. carno is easier to play. carno can make many misateks. few bites, 1 ram and game over for dilo

[drowsy thunder]

Being harder to learn doesn't make it worse

Dilo's ability blows Carno out of the water

especially at night

[misty rock]

look. if a dino is easy to play and have the higest stats, it makes it worse

also there is not just dilo and carno

[drowsy thunder]

I'm just saying

Herra's ability is significantly more consistent as well

[misty rock]

carno can choose its fights. an ability that no other dino has

[drowsy thunder]

while being safer

[drowsy thunder]

Herra:

Dilo:

[misty rock]

in an open field it cant escape

carno is faster than dilo afaik

its 55.6

dilo 47.5

[drowsy thunder]

Yeah I checked you are indeed correct

that doesn't really change the fact that Dilo isn't going to be fighting carnos to survive

[misty rock]

my point is carno is easier to play and still has some high stats compared to others

[drowsy thunder]

Carno's charge is borderline useless and has good stats

Dilo's venom is broken as all hell and still has very good stats

[misty rock]

legacy was not better than evrima balance wise. however carno filled specific niche there. it was a small hunt chaser. it could still try to hunt smth bigger. however you would know that you wont do much dmg and you can always escape if you take too much dmg.

[drowsy thunder]

I'm not educated enough on this game so I'm just gonna summon the guy that seems to know what he's talking about

@dusky surge

[misty rock]

now its apex in every way

[golden coral]

Carno did as good, if not better, hunting larger game in legacy than smaller, hilariously enough xD

It was never really a "small game chaser", even if it was capable at it, but preferable prey would be maia, para, cera (run through, bleed out), and so on. Could even take on larger things (hunted young adult giga in a trio once, poor giga didnt know what he got into)

[misty rock]

carno my favourite dino back in legacy. and probably most played one. i remember taking down ceras there too but it was much difficult compared to evrima. you had to learn every mechanic, every playstyle. also patince bcs back than hunting bigger dinos as carno required bleeding them to death.

now its brawler

2-3 bites from cera was enough to scare away carno

[golden coral]

No, it was as easy in legacy, cera had terrible bleed resist, so as long as it wasnt entirely cornered, you could just trade bleed/hit, recover and watch it die

[golden coral]

What mechanics, really? Not much of that in legacy

[misty rock]

but cera had higher damage output. if im not wrong it took 6-7 bites to kill carno as a cera

[golden coral]

Maybe with raw damage, but not with bleed

[misty rock]

you could not kill cera with raw damage

[golden coral]

Which is how you killed them, trade for bleed, let it work, they can't catch you, and your bleed resistance and recovery was better overall than theirs

[misty rock]

you had to circle around it like 10-15 minutes to bleed him out

[golden coral]

Sure, still an easy kill

And little to nothing the cera could really do

[misty rock]

as i said usuaaly 2 bites from cera made carnos scare away

cera was a brawler and had higher damage output

[golden coral]

Not saying its not easy to kill ceras in Evrima, it probably is quite easy, but it was never hard in legacy after ceratorex ceased to be a thing

[misty rock]

if carno player was not experienced enough usually ifight would ended up carno runninng away

yeah it was easy to kill ceras but back than the problem caused by cera's balance

not carnos

[golden coral]

True, cerato got a bit overnerfed, as did a few others

[misty rock]

carno only got speed and some bleed dmg.

[golden coral]

But carno generally did better vs things with worse turn radius, and that often included larger things

[misty rock]

cera at least had higher bite force

[golden coral]

But carno had more bleed

[misty rock]

and maybe bulkier too i dont remember

[golden coral]

Cerao meanwhile, bled out easily

Yeah, by a small amount

[misty rock]

cera actually had the highest bite force of medium sized carnis

but allo had more weight

[golden coral]

2170 vs 2250, so a tiny advantage for the cera, 200 biteforce vs 350, so more of an advantage there, but only 8 bleed, while carno did 15

And carno handled bleed overall better, especially on the move, so cera couldn't really do much

[misty rock]

yeah but prob. most players did not know stats and once their screen got red after taking bites from cera they usually ran away

[golden coral]

Also why carno could hunt larger things, just stack bleed on them

[misty rock]

bleeding larger prey took a lot of time

it was not viable. i mean sure you could do it

if you had like 20-30 mins

i saw videos people hunting rex with carno

[golden coral]

Yeah, that's not a very long time honest, it's a reasonable time for hunting larger prey via bleed, and time went down if you had more than one carno

[misty rock]

yeah but i am taking the majority of players into the considiration and majority of players was not hunting big prey tbh.

i was mostly hunting utahs at the dock

[tall spear]

I always get screwed over by ping while hunting as a carno

[tropic horizon]

Cera bleeding out to the equivalent of a papercut will never cease to be funny to me

[golden coral]

Cera going from "I can take 10 adult carnos" to "I die to 1 carno unless I'm in a corner", legacy balancing xD

[split atlas]

#balance-feedback message i want some feed back on this and what yall think

[distant torrent]

yea in an ideal world, I’d prefer if they did give those playables love to encourage more people to play as them

if specific diet playables are underplayed, that means there’s something wrong that needs tweaking, fixing, and adding because people just don’t want to play them since they’re not fun, which is a very good sign something is needed

I genuinely hope diets don’t change to cater to the lack of people playing those dinos

I hope those dinos get the changes and additions they need so they’re not instantly written off by many people as unfun or a waste of time

I’m especially hoping they don’t just add those playables in as ai either

god please no lol

[split atlas]

Ywa

[split atlas]

Well i think hypsi would be a nice ai but other than that i agree

[misty rock]

there should be hypsi, dryo, galli and beipi AIs. no ones playing these

[split atlas]

Not galli but they shouldn’t make ais instead of making people wanna play those dinos

[gusty egret]

imo no playable dino should be AI and vice-versa, since it just makes it awkward when you find another friend of your species and then it's just an AI like when there were AI Tenos

[dusky surge]

absolutely

i always hated hearing new friends, only to realise i literally cannot interact with them meaningfully

[compact zenith]

I like the game rly much bit i miss the dead timer, i was fighting 4 pachys with my friends and after we killed one of the pachys they came back as trodons to annoy us in the fight and by healing our bones so pls bring back the timer

[hasty drum]

Dude every time I play cera I die at night to fall damage

Isle developers can use please make ceramic night vision better

I can’t see nothing at night

[dusky surge]

#balance-feedback message
"I think Ceratosaurus needs to be balanced a bit compared to the other apexes."

It's not an apex lol. Not even remotely close

[west plank]

I see it as apex until rex comes along.

[dusky surge]

deino and stego both prove otherwise lol

[west plank]

There are currently two large carnivores that can walk on land. That's why they can be considered apex

[dusky surge]

also cerato being 1.5 tons and faster than teno is a very bad idea

we do not need ceras sprinting down tenos again

[west plank]

Tenonton has a lot of damage and stun abilities, why shouldn't he be faster than him?

[dusky surge]

because tenonto's damage and stun abilities are defensive in nature

cerato has damage and stun abilities that are offensive in nature

and in testing, large packs of ceratos would simply sprint down tenontos and inevitably catch them

and the teno would just die

[west plank]

But when a cera gets hit with its tail, it takes enough damage that it becomes almost impossible to attack again.

[dusky surge]

which is why you use your excellent agility to bait out the tail attack and go for a bite

[west plank]

The balance of the game is good right now, but trying some things might give better results.

[alpine plover]

The balance of the game isn’t good right now wdym

[dusky surge]

I honestly think it's in a better state than many other updates prior

In fact, compared to updates prior, I'd say this is def one of the best states of balance

[west plank]

No, if you play by the rules, you'll see that you're good.

[west plank]

I agree that but We should try different ways

[west plank]

maybe we can try some things in hordetesting

[dusky surge]

There's no real "broken" dino. The closest we have is dilo, who is def better balanced than release lol

[west plank]

Yeah dilos XD

Sometimes so broken

[west plank]

By the way, when playing Cerato, when we hit the back with the alt attack, we can hit up to 700 bite force, but I can't always hit it, I think it may be due to ping, because even though I hit an animal's body directly, the game does not detect it.

[dusky surge]

yea, it's a bug, and a really gross one i hope gets fixed lol

[west plank]

Maybe increase basic attack range

[dusky surge]

wdym?

[west plank]

When I hit someone, the animation looks like I hit an animal, but the game does not detect this, so increasing the range of the simple attack a little can solve this problem, or if it is caused by a different problem, they can fix it and eliminate this problem.

[tropic horizon]

That already kinda happens, not defending his buff ideas at all just sayin I don’t think much has changed

[alpine plover]

#balance-feedback message @burnt dove you can still access the old map

[burnt dove]

how so ?

[cosmic pelican]

Its on a separate branch

[leaden remnant]

spiro branch

[burnt dove]

how go i get to that map

[leaden remnant]

easy, lemme show ya

go into steam, the isle

properties, betas

[alpine plover]

#balance-feedback message @cursive flare Omni has more agility compared to dilo. Omni can deal with threats way easier than dilo. Reducing dilos speed or regulating it to be on par with Omni just makes it worse, speed is dilos stationary defence against things it can’t outmaneuver.

Omni being faster would mean it would have SPEED and AGILITY on top of Dilo.

Both parties specializing in there respective departments makes it more fair imo.

[dusky surge]

100% agreed, it's too much for dilo. Yes, it seems overwhelming to deal with, but dilo's speed is to compensate for agility. I do believe dilo is OP, but nerfing its speed (or buffing omni's) creates matchups where dilo just loses for exisiting, which sucks

Let's not even mention the fact that tailpounce's return next update will absolutely shift the scales of the matchup, given said low agility

[uncut trellis]

Not to mention pounce to pin, dilos are gonna hate that

[west plank]

How much agility can be given to a herbivore that hits 300 basic bite force? @uncut trellis

[dusky surge]

Why would that matter? It needs to be fast to escape larger threats

They said "fastest ceratopsian". If not diablo, what ceratopsian would you make the fastest?

[west plank]

He'll be faster than Rex and other big apexs anyway, so why give him extra agility?

[dusky surge]

You didn't read the actual post

[west plank]

Ava could be a playable ceratopsian so I wrote this

[dusky surge]

Ava has tiny legs and can enter burrows. It has ways to escape without raw speed

[uncut trellis]

Since when was dibble gonna bite that hard?

[west plank]

I guess they can't bite

[uncut trellis]

Whoa what the… it is 300, like in fine with it biting hard for an herbivore but it shouldn’t. Be as strong as carnivore counterparts

[west plank]

At that time, Cerato's 150 bite force bite

[dusky surge]

It's for the headswing, not for the bite

It's just listed weird

[west plank]

I can't think how hard the alt attack hits

[dusky surge]

It twoshots a dilo, apparently

So above 350

[west plank]

Sad

But real

[uncut trellis]

I’d rather teno hit harder

[dusky surge]

Why?

[west plank]

No that's ridiculous

[timid remnant]

How long is the update is coming?

[dusky surge]

Teno is a combo animal, diablo isn't

[west plank]

Diablo only 1 strike then kill

[uncut trellis]

Diablos combat will no doubt be easier to use, tenos hit from behind which can take a lil more skill

[west plank]

Some tenontos player can be insane

They fly and kick

[uncut trellis]

I’m not even saying Diablo should be significantly less, just less

[dusky surge]

i don't agree. It has far less flank defence, and a unique sparring system

[west plank]

I think bite force should have been 200, alt attack should have been 400

[uncut trellis]

How is its sparring system a weakness?

[dusky surge]

Absolutely not lmao

Why would you DOUBLE the damage on alt-attack

[west plank]

It can shake his head a lot by getting power from the ground.

[dusky surge]

That's just asking for alt-bite spam lol

[uncut trellis]

I personally think Diablo should be about hardiness and speed for a ceratopsian, where if you want truly high damage dealers you go for Styraco or Trike

[dusky surge]

It has less health than a teno, so the damage would likely be needed, as well as slower than a teno

[uncut trellis]

And by hardiness I mean good resistances like bleed

[west plank]

Anyway, is there any definitive information on whether Dibble is coming at the end of this month?

[dusky surge]

No.

[uncut trellis]

Like I said, not hugely less, and in groups diablos would be dang near unstoppable, like whole rings of them in defensive stances? Ceratos and carnos can do nothing

[dusky surge]

Being in groups should not be justification for making it weaker than teno significantly

[uncut trellis]

If I was to rank all lower mid tier herbivores in terms of average damage output I’d do this
Kentro > Teno > Diablo > Magy

[slim dragon]

Diablo is smaller than teno
It's small game

[uncut trellis]

Eh I wouldn’t label it as small game

[slim dragon]

Herbivore fan
Opinion rejected

[dusky surge]

Why would diablo, the animal with MASSIVE HORNS, do less damage than an animal that just uses their limbs?

I don't understand why you would do that

[west plank]

I will be waiting for the developers' generous behavior in terms of attacking herbivores for Tyrannosaurus Rex as well.

Maybe 1500 for bite force

[dusky surge]

1500 is ridiculous overkill lol

No ETAs

[uncut trellis]

Diablo doesn’t have “massive” horns for a ceratopsian, but Teno sure does have a massive tail and hind limbs that kick like a horse, with claws that just add to it

[west plank]

this will be the biggest

[dusky surge]

still too high. 1000 should be the highest, given that deino has 500

[uncut trellis]

Last I checked horse kicks are no joke at all

[uncut trellis]

Like 1350kg I think is good for dibble

[dusky surge]

Do you hate dibble

[slim dragon]

Imo 900 base bite would be way enough
With potential to deal more damage with other attacks

[west plank]

deino crawls on the ground and hits

[uncut trellis]

Me? Cause most certainly not

[dusky surge]

1350kg
less damage than teno
slower than teno
no stuns

what did dibble do in your past

[slim dragon]

https://tenor.com/view/war-vietnam-ptsd-shell-shock-moment-gif-3022747568394546158

[uncut trellis]

It does depend what its defensive stance/spar will do, but my thinking is nothing much will be able to get past its head, I’d wonder if even carnos can’t really charge past it, like they could check it, and since you face forward you can easily face your opponent, like a perfect defensive weapon in a 1v1

[dusky surge]

it also has MASSIVE open flanks

[uncut trellis]

My opinion may well change once it releases so we will see

[dusky surge]

designing it around 1v1s is a bizarre take, and with its 1300kg weight, it's not doing great against carno

teno sounds like an all-around superior option

higher damage, can combo its attacks into each other, faster, more health, more weight, more speed, better defence against attackers from behind

[slim dragon]

Just herd up duh

[dusky surge]

better swimspeed, better trot speed, longer ranged attacks

[uncut trellis]

I guess if Diablo didn’t have a stun like teno does then maybe higher damage could be justified

[dusky surge]

it does not have a stun

[tropic horizon]

Diablo discussion I see

[uncut trellis]

I do wonder if if a correctly timed attack against a carno while in defensive stance it could stun it, or maybe carnos would get stunned if they hit the head in general, idk just a thought

[dusky surge]

idk why it'd need that lol

[uncut trellis]

Maybe I just want carnos charge improved rather than what it has now

[deft blaze]

I think dibble should be able to vaporise all predators that DARE to attempt attacking it

[uncut trellis]

Maybe if not stun then carno could take damage if it charges its head

[tropic horizon]

I think dibble should make troodon explode with its defense stance ram

[deft blaze]

I think that dibble should nuke itself when it dies so that everything on the map dies no matter what

[tropic horizon]

Perfect

[uncut trellis]

I think a general philosophy for ceratopsians should be like glass cannons (not pathetically weak but weaker than others in their size range since they’re usually smaller), they’re also not that fast on average so to defend yourself you have to be active and aggressive, defense through offense

[dusky surge]

why are they glass cannons

[deft blaze]

give them a gun

[dusky surge]

what part of a ceratopsian's design is glass cannon

it has a SHIELD

on its FACE

[deft blaze]

mayhaps the giant armoured face

[uncut trellis]

Its body, yes it’s head is the shield and it needs to keep it facing the predator at all times so it doesn’t leave its body vulnerable

[tropic horizon]

Yeah like

[dusky surge]

the head is literally where most of the damage multipliers are

[uncut trellis]

All I mean is that since it’s smaller it can’t afford to take hits like a teno can

Unless it’s on its head ofc

The point is not to be flanked

[dusky surge]

technicallly, it honestly seems generally tankier than a teno in most regular fights

while having 100HP less, it also likely has a headshot multiplier that reduces damage

and headshots make a LOT of difference in combat

[slim dragon]

They're like potatoes
And potatoes irl deal a lot of damage, but die easily

[dusky surge]

If it's anything like pachy, it's got a 0.75 multiplier, if not less

And its got a HUGE head hitbox

[cosmic pelican]

As a potato, I confirm this

[uncut trellis]

Dibble would probably feel tankier because of that head but it’s gonna feel getting flanked a lot more than a teno, not cause of any damage multiplier but just by virtue of being smaller

[tight cove]

Diablo should be able to easily win a 1v1 with most other Dino’s but it dies often against groups

[split atlas]

Name what most dinos are lmfao

[tight cove]

Anything carno sized or smaller

[split atlas]

Idk bout that

[tight cove]

What’s wrong? lol

[split atlas]

Its the smallest ceratopsion maybe like cerat size idk about carno though

[tight cove]

Diablo should absolutely be able to beat a carno in a 1v1 fight it cannot escape it

[hasty coyote]

Aktuallie ava, proto and taco are smaller🤓

Honestly though, its probably going to be slower than most other things in its size tier, so it needs to be able to fight them off. And from what we have been shown, it def looks strong enough to do so.

[tight cove]

Fr

[leaden remnant]

@vale harness altho i am a "do not nerf teno" boi i just have to agree with you

i mean i guess it's the bleeding tho

its weak point is the bleed and that very agile things can really destroy it

from a carno perspective, yeah fighting a teno is pretty damn difficult as carno's abilities are just not for teno, same with cera

i don't fully agree but i also just can't disagree, you ain't wrong at all

i find it somewhat stupid that only raptor has a great chance at killing tenos, even with only bites as raptor is just too nimble for teno to handle

like yknow i don't agree with that it has no weak points; it bleeds pretty badly

but i also can't disagree with the fact that carno and cera gotta go full on monster mode and maul it with brute force

[dusky surge]

#balance-feedback message

2 omnis, or 2 dilos, are much better suited to teno hunting than one might imagine

Teno is good against the big guys, sure, but if you use smaller, more agile animals (or just a ton of hallucinations with dilo), you can whittle it down fast

I have far more success against teno with troo, omni or dilo than carno or cera

[tropic horizon]

Id honestly say it’s far better equipped to handle smaller creatures than one might assume. Against raptor your claws like, 3-4 shot them and 1 or 2 claw attacks can seriously wittle down raptor bleed or kill it outright with bleed if it plays poorly. Dilo is the same story again, use your claw attacks most of the time and kicks and slams to punish dumb movements.

[tropic horizon]

As for this, eh, my success across the board is pretty reliable because in all honesty, most players just kinda suck at the game

[vale harness]

guess i don't play omni so i wasn't too sure how smaller pack hunters do but i can agree with that

[dusky surge]

Omni honestly has always been slept on in tenonto matchups. Even 2 can threaten it, 3 can be on equal footing, and 4 have the edge

This implies, y'know, competent omnis vs competent tenos, but that's besides the point

[torn sky]

In old updates yes, now it is literally a more dangerous tank than a stego

[dusky surge]

i did it this update

[torn sky]

na

[dusky surge]

why would i be talking about something relevant from 3 updates ago in a discussion about teno's current state lol

[torn sky]

With the horrible ping, and the horrible hitboxes, you can't fight against tenos, unless they are about 4-5. The bleeding sucks, and the raptor's damage is minuscule. The dilos have the advantage that the hallucinations do the work for them

[dusky surge]

the bleeding is the same as it's been for many updates

[torn sky]

Because what you say is not real

[torn sky]

xdddd nope

[dusky surge]

"I did this"
"No you didn't because you didn't"

Incredible stuff really

Literally zero patches have been made to raptor's pounce bleed output, it's still very high

Just because you can't do it doesn't mean it's impossible. It and dilo in groups are excellent at teno hunts

[coarse blaze]

I lost my most recent teno and pachy to omni via bleed. Three really good pounces from an omni bled me out over a fair bit of time playing teno; 1 really long pounce as pachy bled me out even after sitting.

[torn sky]

Main Raptor, and seeing a carno run and improve after 5 jumps is normal? I think not little friend

[dusky surge]

what?

[torn sky]

this

[dusky surge]

i literally have no idea what that means

"seeing a carno run and improve after 5 jumps is normal?"

i mean, i assume not because i have no idea what that is

[torn sky]

poor

[dusky surge]

baffling

[coarse blaze]

I too do not know what that means

I think they mean after 5 pounces, not jumps (?)

[torn sky]

the same schiit, different smell xd

[coarse blaze]

I mean omni can jump and pounce so it wasn't exactly worded the best.

[dusky surge]

its getting worse

[coarse blaze]

Bleed work, bleed good, omni is fine. Funky sync or server stuff not so much, not an issue on the playable though.

[slim dragon]

He speaks the language of gods

[leaden remnant]

i don't wanna brag but the other day as raptor i soloed a teno bites only so it's very much possible

damage btw not bleed it was too fast to bleed the the teno out

[leaden remnant]

@pallid gull being changed

[golden coral]

@viscid schooner I won't say much about the balance changes, since I'm not up to date there, but I think part of the point and appeal of teno is that it's various attacks are for various opponents. So I don't agree that teno "don't have to use its tail" is a bad thing. It is preferable if both tail, kick, claw and even bite possibly, suits different opponents. Use tail for spacing (good vs things you don't want to let hit you, or that you need to knock down to be safer to hit), kick for killing power vs larger things (carno, cera), claw for reach (good vs omnis and other agile critters that can be hard to land a slam or kick on), and bite for juvies/tiny things being irritating I guess.

[cosmic pelican]

Bite is also surprisingly good for dealing chip damage vs omnis/dilos

That 35dmg really adds up over time

[viscid schooner]

Other playable don't keep up with teno's versatility is my biggest problem with it. It has so much under its belt to work with... similar to dilo. Just... overloaded, yk? :/

[golden coral]

Oh, that I'd agree with. But I would rather have the other playables be more developed, have more variance in attacks and abilities, since I think that makes for a better, more fun and more skill demanding playable compared to "just charge everything" or "just jab at everything". Though I'm not sure if dilo really have that much going on, it's pretty much just "bite until venom, send shadow clones until dead", no?

There's a reason teno is generally seen as the golden standard for a playable, it's well designed and developed, most of the time is well balanced too, and more playables should be like it, rather than making it more like the others

[distant torrent]

#balance-feedback message wild how the intended scavenger has a hard time in a 1v1 against an herbivore way heavier than it and how the small game hunter needs to think before engaging something just about its own size (reminder that one has absolute control about the engagement lol. cera on the other doesn’t, and I actually think it could use some different changes that will benefit it defensively and NOT offensively for hunting)

[thin mantle]

Can't agree on that, the other playables are a bit comparatively shallow but teno really isn't something that's meant to be engaged alone unless you're better than it, if it lacked a degree of versatility over other playables it wouldn't be capable of defending itself the way it needs to. Teno has been functioning fine if not being going from decent to underpowered every other patch since about U3, so either the other creatures are getting too weak to hunt it without numbers (which is fine to a degree) or players are getting worse, and teno is getting perceived as a far greater challenge than it actually is. I'm inclined to believe both are a factor. Fundamentally tho, if you nerf teno down to a 50/50 matchup with either cerato or carno it basically loses its viability because of how much easier it is for those animals to apply damage aggressively, and in carnos case how much authority you have over the engagment happening at all.

[latent bay]

Why not make it (cerato I mean) actually durable enough to fight with tenonto, and with its comparatively low speed for a small tier wouldn't it not effect its hunting ability by a whole lot to anything besides like

Stegosaurus?

Or give it damage reduction against "small" hits like small tier bites, maybe carno's bite, possibly teno tail slam, but so it doesn't effect stego allow huge hits to "break" that damage reduction

Like 300 and under, cerato reduces damage

Anything higher and the reduction is factored out

[dusky surge]

cerato has

• bleed resist
• damage resist near corpses
• damage reduction while eating
• additional fracture HP

in zero universe does this animal need MORE resistances passively

[distant torrent]

because it’s a scavenger and it’s still about the same speed as teno. it needs better buffs on bodies and more long-term deterrents for vomitting instead, not passives buffs

[dusky surge]

for context, cerato flat out IGNORES dilophosaurus when eating, it can't do damage, apply venom, nothing

[latent bay]

That's stupid it can't apply venom, but it checks out on the damage thing

That's what was advertised no?

[dusky surge]

cera doesnt need to be durable enough to fight teno without a corpse. It has amazing agility to dodge, bait and punish attacks

it also just should not be played as a hunter most of the time

[latent bay]

I mean yeah but it should be able to at least somewhat play offense without a corpse

I feel like I can't half the time when I play (which, granted, is extremely rare, so I likely don't have the experience to talk much)

[dusky surge]

i mean... no? The very reason it has the resistances near a corpse is so its encouraged to play defence near a corpse. Kinda defeats the purpose if it doesn't require that pre-requisite and gets similar buffs

[latent bay]

I dont see it. Ceratosaurus should wsnt to lean on corpses, but it shouldn't just explode when it doesn't have one on deck

[dusky surge]

It doesn't though

[latent bay]

That'd be like saying Deinosuchus is ok because the situationally overpowered super monster is situationally overpowered in a particular condition

[latent bay]

In my experience if it gets kicked in the face once then it just explodes because tenonto has insane damage, the explosion in question being a brutal knockdown giving the tenonto time to just maul it

Cerato doesn't have the ability to do that since it's the only carni rn that has zero way to lock down an opponent, besides ptera but ptera is innately not intended to do anything but fish

[dusky surge]

Cerato's ENTIRE kit has been built around the concept of stealing your corpses

• Corpse buffs: Means you can defend them
• Smell range: Means you can find them
• Sceptic bite: Means other players don't want to fight you for them
• Can eat rotten meat/bones: Means you have a greater variety of choice
• Upcoming ability to vomit on corpses to make them rot faster: Means you can claim them
• Bleed resist: Means you can dissuade bleeders (who are mostly carnivores) from taking your corpse
• High turn radius and fast alt-bite: Means you can react to flanking attacks from carnis coming from your corpse
• Charge bite: Means you can actually either get someone to leave your corpse or take a ton of damage
• High swimspeed/aquatic alt-bite: Means you can contest for corpses that are even in the water

[dusky surge]

Tenonto has less damage on any of its attacks than both cera and carno's main abilities

[latent bay]

In return Tenontosaurus can stun carno and KD cerato

[dusky surge]

It really has no functional need to be a hunter besides appealing to the people who want all carnis to run at herbis till they die

[dusky surge]

If a cera plays well, it can kill a tenonto quite effectively

[latent bay]

I dont want hunter cera I want functional-around-bodies cera

[dusky surge]

It's literally getting even more abilities that focus around it being near and taking advantage of bodies next update

[latent bay]

When was there confirmation of cera getting more?

[dusky surge]

Devstreams

It's even got animations for it in the devblog

[latent bay]

Which devblog

I dont doubt you I just wanna see them myself

[dusky surge]

Wait nevermind that was somewhere else, but the animations exist... somewhere

[latent bay]

I love ceratosaurus (as an animal. Playing it in isle hurts probably because I'm just bad or smth idk st this point) so I'm tryna see anything new on it

[tropic horizon]

Rahhhggg I hear cera discussion, who summoned me

[dusky surge]

Anyway yea, basic rundown is: Cera can manually puke on food, which causes it to rot MUCH faster. It doesn't get the vomit debuff for doing this

[latent bay]

Oh that, heard about that

[dusky surge]

Ceratosaurus Manual Vomit
This one is a relatively new ability for QA to start testing – it only just had new sounds made for it! From our initial tests, the ceratosaurus’ ability to purposely vomit on a corpse to decompose it faster has really brought out the identity that it was missing. Not only is it now able to bully other species off a corpse but it can now also “steal” them, forcing them to move on and look for a different meal. We do need to test this further to get a better feel for the mechanic and tweak various things with it, but so far so good. As well as this, we’re currently toying with the idea of increasing the buff that ceratosaurus receives around corpses even further if it is rotting, which I think would synergise quite well with its new ability.

It may also be getting stronger buffs for being near rot

[latent bay]

I like that

I still want cerato to be able to function away from bodies but I'll take what I can get

[latent bay]

Ceratosaurus dentisulcatus

[tropic horizon]

I mean, hopefully with the coming update its bile will allow that to happen easier. Also a thing that definitely needs looking at is the fact that it like, barely gets bile at all. Since rotting corpses are such a rare find and even then non rotting corpses shouldn’t require you to eat like, the entire thing from zero hunger to recharge your bile.

[dusky surge]

Personally, I play cerato jumping from corpse to corpse and seeing where the trail takes me, and it works pre good

[latent bay]

I'd corpse ride too if diets didn't exist

[slim dragon]

cerato can't jump

[dusky surge]

Bones and organs baybee

[dusky surge]

You're a wicked little man, you know that

[latent bay]

If you stay on top of hunger then neither work for you

So like, if you play cerato as a food hoarder you get screwed over because diets

[slim dragon]

https://tenor.com/view/skeleton-dance-dancing-moves-gif-4650386

[latent bay]

As is applicable for everything

[dusky surge]

This was the perfect reply, thank you

[tropic horizon]

And also chuffing just, kinda sucks atm. It provides some protection but against things that actually pose a threat to you. It really is not much.

[latent bay]

Isn't it 50%

Or did that grt changed and I'm out of the loop

[dusky surge]

It's 50% iirc

[tropic horizon]

Yeah, but all that does is delay the inevitable against ceras main competition. Carno can just, dart in and out while healing off its bile and getting its stam and charge back. And if you do that against a small pack of dilos, you’ve all but killed yoursef.

The few things I can think of that it’s chuff actually helps against are things that cerato already dunks on so it’s just, overkill.

[latent bay]

I mean that checks

That's frustrating, but that checks out

[tropic horizon]

Here’s what I’d give its chuff: stun resistance to help against carno.
And honestly that’s pretty much it. Just some stun resistance and maybe venom resistance.

[latent bay]

Didn't wavepoole already mention cersto gets venom res when eating

also I'd nominate to give cerato the ability to gain nutrition through overeating

[slim dragon]

It's not venom resist
It's that dilo cannot apply venom if its attacks deal 0 damage

[tropic horizon]

I don’t think I’ve ever seen that happen once.

[tropic horizon]

Yeah this checks out, and even then you can only eat for so long so it’s a pretty crappy defense against dilos.

[latent bay]

That

Actually checks out

[vale harness]

I don't understand this balance psychology of making your favorite dino so pathetically strong no one wants to fight you.

yes carno and cera should think before fighting, but we've had it like that for a long long time and teno didn't have to be OP for carno to think. even the release of carno when it was insanely broken, carnos always thought twice before fighting a teno because a GOOD teno could easily kill you. only difference now is no matter how awful a teno is, they will probably win the fight against a cera or carno

also herbivores were weak in legacy, but they aren't even close to weak right now. they have the same hunger time, shorter growth times, easier diet, reliable food source, backup food source incase they're starving, they all have insane abilities to not only disable their attackers but to literally chase down and kill them too... herbivores don't need to be faster to grow, weigh more, easier to live as, and be favored in every matchup. i'm an herbivore main too

[distant torrent]

teno will be having other predators it likely can’t 1v1 such as allo. not every playable has to be able to 1v1 every other playable and have their intended niche disregarded in order to achieve that “fairness.” eg: a carno being able to hunt a stego because stego is op

again, carno is supposed to mainly be a small game hunter

cera is a scavenger, not a big hunter

the current roster (and skill of players) will make teno and other playables (such as stego) seem op when predators more meant to hunt them with better ease aren’t added in yet

and a bad teno genuinely is likely to not win fights

a bad teno will show because it won’t be able to aim its tail correctly and accurately, and it won’t be able to kick accurately

[vale harness]

but why keep teno too powerful for the current roster when none of its predators are in? why not balance teno to the current roster and eventually balance it to the roster it will have to deal with when they come to the game. most dinos that could hunt it aren't going to be in the game for an incredibly long time. i'd rather have carnos and ceras want to fight me because its more fair, rather than grass eating simulator and quit the game in a week cause my teno has nothing to do

[halcyon elk]

If you want carnos to attack you, act dumb.

Lull them into a false sense of security

[distant torrent]

because carnos and ceras still absolutely have the capability to fight tenos

1v1? no. unless the teno is terrible lol

2v1? that’s harder even for a good teno (this will be easy for the teno if the carnos in question aren’t… the best at combat. a lot of players aren’t good at combat)

3v1? that teno is going down unless you have some really bad players. it’s basically 5400 kg worth of health sponge vs 1600 for carnos. for ceras, it’s like 3900 kg of a health sponge? yea, that teno is going to get face tanked. it can’t fish out enough dps fast enough to kill them all

I also genuinely can’t stress enough how bad a lot of players are at combat. there are exceptions, but if you watch the average official player lol..

[tropic horizon]

Teno needs like, the tiniest possible nerf and that’s it. I don’t get why people want to absolutely gut it other than carnivore bias or thinking that Teno is way more overpowered than it actually is. The only nerf I’d give Teno is like, a 1% increase in its attacks. 2% at most(this is mainly on the kick which would coincide with a lessening of stam used to tailslam). Doesn’t need its damage, bleed, health, speed, or anything else touched. It’s in a pretty decent balance state.

[tropic horizon]

This is honestly like, the biggest issue I have with balance feedback is that (usually) it’s a person with a skill issue screaming for drastic change when that’s not even needed at all.

[distant torrent]

sounds pretty accurate. I can’t argue with that

[tropic horizon]

Like on both sides that’s the case. I find players of either role screaming at the other about things they just, don’t really know about. It results in this cesspit of this us vs them mentality where herbis and carni players alike just kinda hate eachother. Kinda sad honestly

[distant torrent]

it seems to be from people more focused on pvp rather than actual survival where you pick and choose your fights and weigh the consequences of each choice and even decide when it’s best to just

not engage and look for an easier target

[tropic horizon]

Yeah some people can’t stop themselves from going and risking their life for no reason, then they complain about their own bad choices and it’s like

[unborn iris]

A decent teno is really good at punishing less-skilled overaggressive players.

[vale harness]

hm. guess we just have differing opinions on what teno should be. but that's all good

[dusky surge]

i think the issue is less "teno is too good at 1v1ing cera and carno" and more "carno and cera are not built to 1v1 teno effectively and consistently"

if you nerf teno to the point that it's consistently possible, you kinda have made the entire animal bad, because you're putting it against two kits it, by all means, should be strong against

[vale harness]

i don't mind tenos damage or stamina or even the bleed. its mainly stuns. and that goes for every dino in the game, teno just does it best. i had the most fun and put the most time with teno back on release when stuns weren't in the game, and it felt rewarding, and hard, and satisfying. but now with stuns everywhere it just feels awful. any damage teno does is amplified to all playable cause of the stun. it sucks to fight against, and me personally, it isn't fun to fight with. that's why i like carno rn, less stuns more playing the game.

[dusky surge]

They're probably going to bring back its stun potential after all the complaints tbh

[vale harness]

yea probably. release evrima wasn't great, but damn i got nostalgia for it for some reason

[dusky surge]

wasn't teno also arguably much weaker on release on account that it couldn't combo its stuns, and raptor pounce did SO much damage

[vale harness]

yea teno was weak on release. and raptor was super fast so it was really hard to hit. that was kinda the big problem. but it was really simple and combat was super fast paced

[coarse blaze]

How much does stego do with a poor diet out of curiosity? Does anyone know with the debuffs?

[thin mantle]

It was

Teno was pretty bad

[thin mantle]

Like for damage? Iirc it’s 1250 on swing

[coarse blaze]

Yeah but like - no diet

How much less am I doing per swing?

[thin mantle]

Oh I don’t even know what the no nutrient damage reduction is

[coarse blaze]

I don't either it's why I peered in because I want to gauge how worth it is not following every migration zone

[dusky surge]

50%

So, like, 625

[deft blaze]

Great heavens how catastrophic

[coarse blaze]

I can live with that

I can't say the same for some

[tired shard]

@spark crater I feel like your take was completely valid and I agree, I don’t know why so many people disagree

Pachy takes little to no skill that’s why there’s constantly big gangs of them going around killing everything they see. It’s not even about playing defensive at that point, they’re actively hunting people down to kill them. I’ve never seen a pachy bone break to run away from something it’s always the opposite.

[dusky surge]

Because 4-5 hits to fracture an omniraptor on ONE body part is absolutely absurd

The omni is literally dead before it's fractured

[tired shard]

Okay yea that is absurd but I get the point they’re trying to get at

[dusky surge]

I personally don't think pachy is that OP tbh, it has a plethora of downsides

• Slowest animal in its entire size tier
• Easy to attack from the flanks or behind
• Requires chargeup to get full damage/blunt damage
• Has a LONG cooldown after hitting (or missing) where it's completely immobile and you can get in a free attack
• Cannot stun anything larger than a ton with its attack, so you can literally just punish it for trying

[tired shard]

From my experience they don’t need to fully charge their ram to deal the bone break

They can barely charge it and release and you’re crippled

[keen plover]

Yeah tap ram can fracture which is goofy. I’m annoyed they took away the knockdown and kept the fracture. Should have done the reverse

Also they don’t have to hold their ram for long to actually deal max damage. As long as it’s held, that’s enough for it to do the full damage

[tired shard]

^ I would prefer getting knocked down honestly (for tap rams)

Atleast there’s still a chance for me to fight or run away

[hasty coyote]

I’m still saying the issue is that leg fracture is too strong. It both prevents attacks AND cripples movement substantially.

[dusky surge]

ya basically

[tired shard]

Say goodbye to your already fast draining stamina

[tired shard]

https://youtu.be/o8w7ArXSKz0?si=4YIN4oF6SAekDYZf

[split atlas]

I already watched that and you have to understand most of the fights they were in a absurd group size

[dusky surge]

I also don't know what that video proves lol

Or at least, what it's supposed to prove

[split atlas]

8 players to kill a carno/ cera obv you could kill those with less players but its still hard

[split atlas]

I agree

Pachy is countered by people with uh get this one brains

Dodge the hit then kill them while they are immobilized from the miss

[dusky surge]

i mean, the amount of creatures that can outrun it include:

• Carno
• Dilo
• Omni
• Herrera
• Troodon

As for a cerato, swimming is honestly an insanely good idea, as is using mud. And, your agility is an excellent tool

[split atlas]

People also act like they are insanely hard to hit you back against a cliff or against a giant wall and the try and go for you all you gotta do is alt bite if

Ive killed multiple pachys as a solo raptor or solo dilo

Or solo carno or solo cerat etc

Herrara on ground

[dusky surge]

The issue probably derives from pachy's leg frac

That fracture very much changes the nature of the encounter

[tired shard]

It’s what I meant by people just going around in large groups of pachys just killing anything they see, and how it requires little to no skill

[split atlas]

It requires skill lol

You have to learn how to aim

[tired shard]

Not as much as say Omni

Not really

You can land hits on their tail and it’ll register still

[split atlas]

Omni id say requires less skill depending on the dino its fighting

Stego i would agree but for most dinos nah

[dusky surge]

TBH? I don't think every dino should require the same amount of skill to get value out of

[split atlas]

It just has to stay away from the mouth and not go for dumb pounces

Agreed rat

[tired shard]

But it should still be more work than hold right mouse for like 1 second and let go, then the fight is basically over

[split atlas]

Id say yea it is absurd it fractured in one tap

[dusky surge]

Sure, Troodon has an absurd skill-floor compared to most, but that doesn't mean everything should be as skilled as Troodon

[split atlas]

It should depend on size

Troodon requires a tiny bit more skill than omni xD

You have to have a understanding of the venom and then the same skills of a omni but its easier to not get hit

[tired shard]

I mean you wouldn’t go after pachy if you’re a troodon unless you know how to fight them or if you’re grouped up, but pachy can come at you regardless of size, except maybe stego and teno, but they’re herbivores

[dusky surge]

It is def one of the game's most skilled animals, because you have to understand how tf its venom works to get any value out of it

[split atlas]

Watch a 6 minute video and you know how the venom works lol

Theres so many videos on troodon

[split atlas]

Troodon doesnt go for literally like anything solo

[coarse blaze]

One omni with one big pounce is still enough to bleed out pachy

[tired shard]

it’s possible tho

With skill

[split atlas]

With the intention to kill, a troodon wouldnt actually go for like anything

[tired shard]

Maybe for you, not everyone plays the same

[split atlas]

Most solo troodons just are trolling when they fight

[dusky surge]

You would be surprised

[split atlas]

And if i was in a duo i would go for a pachy lol

[dusky surge]

I play solo troo a lot, that animal is genuinely so underrated

[tired shard]

^

[dusky surge]

Just wait for next patch lol, when we get its buffs

[tired shard]

Wait they’re buffing troodon?

[split atlas]

I would love for troodon to get buffs

[dusky surge]

Venom changes and pounce changes are coming next patch

[tired shard]

I know that back pouncing will be a thing, did they specify at all about the venom?

[dusky surge]

No, besides the fact it'll be put to a level to rival dilo

[split atlas]

WHAT

???????????????

[tired shard]

I’m down for that honestly

[split atlas]

IM NOT

[tired shard]

You just said pachy was like fine what’s the issue with this?

[split atlas]

Imagine 20 troodons fighting a stego with venom rival to dilo

[dusky surge]

It's not equivalent

[split atlas]

When they can already kill stegos

[tired shard]

Then that’s a fair fight lol

[dusky surge]

It's not the same venom

[tired shard]

20 v 1

[dusky surge]

Not the same type of hallucination venom, btw, it's just going to be put to a level venom is supposed to be at. Devs said Troo's current venom is underwhelming

[split atlas]

UNDERWHELMING?

[dusky surge]

Also a 20 v 1 should be in troo's favour? It's a HORDE animal

[keen plover]

I hope the envenomation stage has a slowing effect

[split atlas]

20 was a exaggeration

[keen plover]

It would be able to hunt omni / galli / dilo

[dusky surge]

Current sentiment amongst the community is troo has underwhelming venom

[split atlas]

😭

[dusky surge]

Dude dilos are going to start fearing the night with troodon's changes lol

[split atlas]

Ive seen 5 troodons take down stegos before

[tired shard]

That’s acceptable

[split atlas]

☠️

[dusky surge]

It already has a small attack hitbox, no flank defence and low agility

Combine that with venom buffs and backpounce return, dear lord

[tired shard]

Stegos counter is literally Omni and troodon what do you expect

[dusky surge]

(it really shouldn't be imho, but it is)

[split atlas]

I agree

[dusky surge]

animal designed entirely around flank defence
it's weak to flankers

lol

[tired shard]

I mean with no apexes what would you propose

[dusky surge]

I'd have them change it when the apexes come out

For now, it works, given the roster stego coexists with

[split atlas]

My point is 5 troodons shouldnt be able to take a fg stego

[tired shard]

Why not?

[split atlas]

https://tenor.com/view/nervous-sign-of-the-cross-praying-hoping-nico-santos-gif-21421248

[tired shard]

If a venomous snake can kill a full grown adult, or even something larger why would a venomous theropod and multiple at that not be able to take down one stego

[keen plover]

Also thoughts on this?

Fracture Rework

• got a few ideas from others, and I have some additions but for now :

Examples:

Head fracture : Make it so the blinding effect only really applies to those who are running, so those standing animals can fight back, Maybe the effect could be worse while running?
Reduce the damage reduction to 25% from 50% Also disable special attacks like Carno charge for example.

Body fracture: Reduce the stamina penalty to 2x (from the previous 3x) and add an additional effect where agility is greatly reduced. So for example, Pachy can body fracture a Carno and
out turn it confidently.

Leg fracture: Possibly allow creatures to alt attack when leg fractured and make the movement penalty a 25 - 30% reduction in speed (30% can be for carno, maybe make it so stuff like teno / cera don't lose too much speed) instead of the current 50%

Then you could actually buff Pachy outside of the fractures to make it a better brawler vs same size

[split atlas]

NO

[keen plover]

🤔 that's fine, what would you change

or would you scrap the whole thing?

[split atlas]

The problem with pachy rn is how easily it breaks bones

[tired shard]

That’s part of the problem

[keen plover]

IMO it needs an immediate answer for hitting something or else it gains next to nothing

[split atlas]

My problem when i fight pachys is getting 1 tap fractured as a adult x dino

[tired shard]

He has some valid takes

[split atlas]

I agree for some of it

[keen plover]

The goal with those changes is so creatures have a better time with fractures / can defend themselves while still allowing pachy to still escape

[split atlas]

For head fracture and body

[split atlas]

I think we all know they wont run away

Unless they are on a realism server or smth

[tired shard]

^ real talk

[keen plover]

Of course, they'll always keep attacking, but the idea is to allow a Carno for example to still be a Carno when fractured. You'll need multiple pachys to take one down instead of like 2 - 3 like rn

Like 2 good pachys can consistently drop a Carno rn

[split atlas]

Most people dont play herbis just to play and have fun they play them because their abilities are just superior to carnis

[tired shard]

The speed and alt idea is solid

[split atlas]

Yea

[keen plover]

Yeah I also wanted them to not be too strong in mixherds. So at the very least a stego won't be helpful lol

[split atlas]

I say there should be a drawback to headbutting

[tired shard]

Maybe you take slight damage for each alt attack since you’re still going to be pushing through your injury as a recoil damage

[dusky surge]

there is

[dusky surge]

god no what the hell

imagine getting PUNISHED FOR DEFENDING YOURSELF

[tired shard]

It’s better than no alt attack

[split atlas]

Like maybe a tiny amount of damage or something of that nature to discourage continually headbutting

[dusky surge]

no

there is no universe where you should take damage for self defence

there is no justifiable reason to have a pachy kill itself for being near death and trying to fight for its life

[tired shard]

I mean do you think you could kick someone full force with a broken leg?

And not get hurt?

Or bite someone without holding back with a broken jaw

[split atlas]

Except 90% of the time pachy isnt acting in self defense lol

[keen plover]

The goal isn't to make Pachy terrible. Its to limit their punch up in small groups and make it fair for tenos, ceras & Carnos, while still making them threatening in large groups.

Not a punching bag, but also not cancer.

Also they should 100% dominate same size

[tired shard]

There atleast should be a reduction in the applied damage

[split atlas]

Idk why they strive for this game to be insanely realistic when in the big picture it just wont happen unless there ingame rules with actual punishment nobody will play herbis in full self defense other than rpers

[keen plover]

Why? They do 125n damage on ram currently and 75n on their alt swing (which is equal damage to omni's alt bite)

It's not insanely high

[tired shard]

Nah I mean the creature that’s fractured

[dusky surge]

okay and?

[split atlas]

Hes saying fractured dinos

[split atlas]

^

[tired shard]

The pachy would still have a chance but the opponent has access to its alt attacks

That’s pretty big for like cerato and teno who already have strong asf alt attacks

[dusky surge]

pachy has to headbutt to defend itself from omnis, dilos and carnos. It literally cannot outrun them

[tired shard]

Omnis and dilos usually avoid them to begin with

Idk about carnos they can atleast defend themselves if they get fractured

[dusky surge]

because it will headbutt if they get close, which is the idea

[split atlas]

Your acting like i said “TAKE 70 PERCENT OF ITS HEALTH FOR HITTING IT ONCE”

[dusky surge]

Any amount is too much

[split atlas]

I said a tiny bit of damage as in less than 1%

[tired shard]

No because they’ll get chased down, you have not encountered pachy players or something

[dusky surge]

If it's going to be that low, why add it at all? Besides killing pachies on the brink of death

[dusky surge]

I'm much faster than them so often they can't chase me down

[split atlas]

The idea is if you make them take dmg from it they will fracture someone then run LIKE THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO

[tired shard]

If you’re faster than them you’ll eventually run into them again, and they chase you every chance they get, eventually they will get you if you decide not to just leave that side of the island

[dusky surge]

Less than 1% will make them run?

I can't see a world where any self-harming ability is ever good in a game about surviving

[tired shard]

If there is a strong asf ability a lot of games add a recoil damage, that’s not uncommon

[dusky surge]

Name one survival game that does that

[split atlas]

Okay then how do you think we should stop pachys from being as aggro as a boar in east plains except the rate of that boar killing what it attacks is 99%

[tired shard]

Let’s be real this isn’t a survival game at this point in time. You grow to kill people and that’s really all there is to it

[split atlas]

Yea

[dusky surge]

That's just an asenine argument.

"Even though the game is designed like a survival game, is getting more and more survival-oriented features, advertised as a survival game and treated by the devs as a survival game, balance pachy around the deathmatch mindset, not the survival game mindset, then rebalance it all over again when the game becomes more of a survival game."

[split atlas]

Dude

i cant even argue with you anymore your ignoring what we are making a point towards

[dusky surge]

You remove the animal. It, at its core, is designed to be aggro af. It has forward-facing attacks designed to cripple opponents then either flee or finish. That's pachy, it literally lives off the motto of "the best defence is a good offense".

[tired shard]

Just cause you advertise something as a horror survival doesn’t mean that’s what it is. We all know this is a glorified death match man. The few mechanics they have don’t really change that

[dusky surge]

It is still getting more and more survival-oriented features in the future. Don't be daft and assume this is the game's final iteration of its gameplay loop

This is not the be-all end-all of The Isle

[split atlas]

Except they base the game on realism lol would a pachy REALISTICALLY go after a full grown carno

[tired shard]

That’s in the future we’re in the now, they’ve been promising stuff for the longest. That literally holds no weight

[dusky surge]

Not to mention, why would the devs want their game, which they want to be survival, have animals specifically designed around the deathmatch

[split atlas]

Its been 4 years

[dusky surge]

You know what else is in the future? Pachy changes.

[tired shard]

Said who? What dev?

[dusky surge]

The basic nature of game development said so. I can bet you 20 dollars, right now, pachy (or fractures) will recieve some change in the future.

Why are you acting like we've hit a roadblock, and nothing is subject to change

[tired shard]

They back track a lot to so who knows if that substantial

[split atlas]

Almost every fight is a deathmatch and they almost never back out of a fight

[keen plover]

I mean its getting a "parry" and trot buff

[dusky surge]

Thank GOD

Pachy trot my despised

Also I want that parry back

I miss when pachy had that feature

[tired shard]

Because the game will never function as a survival with the way people play it like raaa said. You can put things in place to encourage certain behaviors but you can’t dictate that for every circumstance

[split atlas]

Unless someone decides to be logical im gonna hop out of this cause its going nowhere

[dusky surge]

So your solution is "give up and make it deathmatch"?

Since you can't beat it

Don't bother trying

[tired shard]

No lmfao the solution is to balance things with deathmatch and trolling behaviors in mind

[dusky surge]

No other animal can commit functional suicide by using attack unless it is SPECIFICALLY a carnotaurus charging a MUCH larger creature, which is different from being damaged EVERY attack you make

[tired shard]

Not oh this pachy will break this animals leg and run because it’s a herbivore, no one plays like that