balance-feedback

[urban venture]

Im not sure if this is how the system works currently as the speed growth percentages are very confusing and difficult to understand but if this isnt how it already works in the game then with no nutrients you should have your growth time doubled, with 1 nutrient you have normal growth speed, with 2 nutrients you have your growth cut by a quarter and with 3 nutrients your growth is cut in half, im sure you could make those work with the appropriate growth speeds but currently even with 3 nutrients the growth in Evrima feels very boring and slow.

[twin breach]

You really gotta lower the dmg of baby stego overall, it should deal nearly no dmg until it reaches 35%. That's where it should start hurting, not as a hatchling lol. It's way too easy to grow apexes currently. Only the strongest should survive.

[urban venture]

Perhaps give deino a thrash ability it can hold and drains stamina the longer it holds which can only be used on dinos it cant grab?

[true canyon]

Ok, I'm just gonna go out and say it: STEGO IS OVERPOWERED A single stego is a struggle for carnos to take on, which makes sense, now it's joined the shantu, trike, and cama in the apex list, because it was shitty in legacy. But the Evrima stego is too OP, because the only end you can attack is the front, you can't easily take even a solo one down. But what makes it OP is that it can tank a deinosuchus, one of, if not probobly the best apex/semi-aquatic the game has ever seen, can get like 5 shot because all the stego has to do is press M2 multiple times. Lets just say that a carno pack wants to hunt down a stego, full adults for all parties to make it fair. Carnos have to: Plan what do to, strategically move to avoid being hit by the stego, and make coordinated attacks. What does the stego have to do? Turn in a circle while pressing M2 and getting multiple kills. So, what I propose is either A- Nerfing the stego so it's swing does less damage overall, or remove it from evrima and replace it with another herbivore until more, stronger creatures are added to actually over-throw stegos in battle.

[lavish tundra]

Could you tune down the Pachy alt attack?
I think it's cool that the headbutt is as strong as it is, and how dooming they can be.
But the alt attack is too easy, not as punishing, and too strong
Pachy's are beyblading and outright invalidates any Utah v Pachy matchups.

[knotty hare]

Adding on to TurkeyMaster69's feedback, don't remove the stego, just nerf it or make it fit in more balanced with the current meta. For example, maybe make it not be able to quickly turn on the spot, cause stego is quite heavy. So it has to find a defendable position, making a lone stego in the field a bit more vulnerable than usual.

[urban venture]

For those who complain about how strong Stego is, Stego isn't the issue, It's due to Stego having no competition or predators, Deino cannot take down a fully grown Stego unless theres 2 that play well and even so one will likely die in the process, Utah's pounce doesnt work most of the time and you bounce off a stego and even if it does land any good Stego just stays near a tree or other Stegos, I believe the answer is just giving Deino a thrash ability for when it cant drown its prey that uses up stamina similar to Utah's pounce but also by fixing Utah's pounce so Utahs can actively hunt Stegos again to stop them from overpopulating.

[torpid warren]

Please increase the base damage Utah does slightly and give it a stam and stam regeneration buff. Utah relies heavily on its stamina and runs out of it very quickly. Also, please work on fixing the pounce, it is still finicky. : )

[sweet rivet]

Make utah a bit more bite reliant (buff its bite or alt bite) to compensate for pounce problems and especially when it comes to water and forests

[twin breach]

^ to add onto this. If utah would be made more reliant on its bite it would automatically increase its skill ceiling and skill floor. Since a pack has to be good at when and how to pounce a target and how to attack their target if its in a bad spot to pounce. It should deal enough dmg to kill juvenile dinos effiecently (like cmon it's a goddamn top tier predator not a teddybear) but shouldn't also have to much biteforce since it's a packhunter so u have to scale the dmg while keeping that in mind. That's just my opinion tho but utah defenitely needs a way to at least play around the : "I dip my toe into the water, now u can't pounce lololololol"-strat. Also you could make it kind of a dmg hybrid with that. So you never know how a pack is going to approach u and even if u get low bleed dmg bc of ur resistance a good pack still might be able to take u down just with raw dmg, but that's another topic.

[urban venture]

So...Wallowing, there are very limited mud pools on the map currently and even with more they would only be located based on memory and some would be camped like the one at south pond where as finding a water source that likely has mud only takes a sniff, I suggest bringing back being able to wallow at rivers AND as an addition beable to wallow in muddy areas of ponds aswell, you should not however beable to wallow just anywhere along a river, have muddy areas be easily found along a river but dont cover the entirety of the side of rivers in mud, this will also make it more viable for Deinos to patrol the rivers more again and grab a potential meal thats wallowing rather than only killing juvis crossing rivers or a unlucky player drinking which is rare.

[cloud acorn]

Make it easier for Pachy to fracture Carno. The amount of times I've seen Carnos take fully charged rams right in the scrotum from Pachys and be just fine afterwards is ridiculous. Why does it require multiple headbutts to fracture a Carno? You realize a Pachy has to fracture a Carno quickly so it can get away, right? In the time it takes a Pachy to headbutt a Carno twice, the Carno can kill the Pachy mltiple times over because all it has to do is left click 3 times.

[gentle tartan]

I basically got 1 shot fracture from an uncharged headbutt so many times lmao

[robust marlin]

Honestly, Deino really needs some help in regards to 1v1 Deino matchups of the same size (full adult vs full adult). Every single Deino I've grown has died to another Deino, which is fine in itself - this is a kill-or-be-killed game after all, but the problem is that you always die no matter what you do about it if they get in the first bite.

In a 1v1, there is 0 counterplay. None. Whoever gets in the first bite wins. If you turn to fight back, you die. If you try to sprint/swim away while they're in biting distance, you die because you cannot get away.

The only way to survive another Deino is to get a generous head start on them with full stam because you saw them coming, or not be seen because you're well-hidden and not moving.

Every other dino has counter-play to something. Most things can run from Carno using forests/trees and rocks. Stego can spear everything to death. Teno can use tail-slams. Ptera can fly away. Hypsi has blind (even if it is crap to aim). Dryo can at least jump up on rocks and high places.

When Dryo has more counterplay options than a full adult Deino does vs another deino, there's something definitely broken. Everything else with Deino (except the weird choice of diet options, which is its own post) is fine, imo, but that one thing is infuriating. Deino takes something like 6 hours to grow on a great/perfect diet.

To know you're going to lose 6 hours of your life and have to start over just because the other guy bit you first and there's nothing you can do about that is honestly garbage.

Unfortunately I can't really think of much to counter it without causing issues, except for one possible thing: Allow a Deino that's been attacked to get a temporary speed boost to flee. Something like a 15% or 20% boost after being bitten 1 time, which lasts for 15-30 seconds, and has a long cool down (like 30-60 minutes) before it can activate again. The option to successfully flee instead of be assridden to death helplessly should be there

[polar salmon]

Assuming I'm not stupid/forgetfull:

Idea A
What if the Utah regained X percentage of (total/spent stam) if they voluntarily leave a pounce, of-course the amount never exceeding the actual stam spent on the pounce.

Idea B
Alternatively, you could make it a temporary buff to stam regen speed.

If you wanna do specific rating, Blue A or Blue B means agree with that idea, red variant means disagree. The usual for general disagree or agree.

[twin breach]

I have some ideas for deino in general which I quickly wanted to share.

1. Bonebreak on bites: I really think that pachy, rex and deino should be experts in this. It would be amazing to see deino be able to pop a tenos head like a melon whne gore comes out. A deino that hits a weakspot and breaks ur bones with a bite also could be able to make u fall/out of balance and could try to finish u off with a deathroll or a lunge .

2 .What if u were able to hit weak spots when u lunge for prey bigger than u? So for example u could be able to lunge at a stegos tail (you need some momentum for this, it shouldn't work on land) or at one of its back legs. Lunging its back leg would make it fall to the ground where u could finish it off with a deathroll and hitting its tail would create a kind of tug of war scenario or smth. like this where the deino has an advantage bc the stego can't use its tail.

3. A deathroll as an attack for targets whose legs have been broken or fallen to the ground? Imagine jumping out of the water and performing a deathroll at a rex' chest and taking a bite from it lol

4. Maybe make deino smaller/faster and give it less health to encourage a more ambush predator playstyle? Or make the rivers bigger. Also I think Deino should have some dmg reduction on its back like anky will have. I know this makes no sense with what I just said : Give it less health etc. but I just think it would be a nice little addition.

[urban venture]

Deino should gain a speed boost and run like this when it sees a human, like in this video or faster, trust me itd be balanced https://youtu.be/ByX6BvcSLto

[cloud acorn]

Sprinting with a leg fracture should cost stamina.

[hollow ridge]

Carno charge should make louder stomping noises. As of now, there is barely any chance of detecting a carno coming in charging before its too late.

[worthy kite]

A lot of people aren't happy about deino's diet, since it's supposed to be an ambush predator. What if, we have deino's diet be everything, but it has something else to worry about; warmth! Deino could have something where it has to chill in the shade for a bit if it gets too hot, or it'll start taking damage. And opposite with cold? That would make it easier for deino to hunt, but also give it something else too look out for. What do you guys think?

[torpid warren]

Juvi utah and utah in general needs a buff to its biteforce slightly. Look at how many bites their juvi utah got on the juvi carno (normal and alt bites) and the juvi carno only needed 3 bites. Please give utah a slight buff to its bite force, it is very weak right now. If anyone has any other suggestions then let’s talk about it! : D

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LI-KMKCNb00

[potent chasm]

I’ve seen people complain a bit that stego is op. It definitely isn’t, but it should have a worse time dealing with deinos; and I mean only deino. Maybe a clever deino player could use the grab ability, and if it lands on a stegos head or leg, you’ll be able to slowly drag the stego deeper into the water. The stego would be able to fight this of course, but it should not be a fair fight if it grabs the head, and maybe a 50-50 fight when a leg is grabbed. This would reward smart deino players and punish stegos that are not aware of their surroundings. A deino that does not land the grab would still be easily dealt with, and stegos head is tiny, so this wouldn’t just make deino unfairly op. Just a thought to make stego vs deino matchups a bit more fair.

[naive wolf]

grace period after being stunned. cant be spam slammed

[wheat cove]

deino:

1. O2 drain is way too fast.
2. O2 regen a bit too slow.
3. Water absorb seems too slow.
4. Filling while drinking is too slow.
5. food/water should be close to the same drain speed.
6. the actual size of the deino seems smaller than it should be in in comparison to prey items.

[lavish tundra]

stego blood pool nerf, that is all, the thing is insane

[indigo ice]

Buff Utah bite force and bleed a bit, as well as fixing pounce. With that, Utah won't be useless anymore, and stego will finally have a predator, and carno and teno another rival

Buffing bite will allow Utah to keep up the pressure in hunts and not fully rely on pounce, which lets them work around with their stamina better.

[cloud acorn]

Also a damage nerf to Stego's growth stages because a subadult Stego shouldn't fucking 2 shot a Carno.

[lavish tundra]

So for when dynamic grouping comes, when these are the balanced group sizes I see for for current and upcoming creatures

Utah: Adult 8, Juvies 6,
Teno: Adult 6, Juvies 5
Dryo: Adults 10, Juvies 12
Hypsi: Adult 12, Juvies 15
Stego: Adult 3, Juvies 4
Carno: Adult 4, Juvies 5
Deino: Adult 2 Juvies 3
Ptera: Adult 7: Juvies 8
Troodon: Adult: 10 Juvies 12
Cera: Adult 5, Juvies 6
Gali: Adult 7, Juvie: 10
Ovi: Adult: 5, Juvie, 6
Magy: Adult 6 Juvie 6
Herrera: Adult 4, juvie 5
Beipi: Adult 5, juvie 5
Dilo: Adult 7, Juvie 8
Kentro: Adult 8, juvie 8

For every adult not in a group you can add 1 juvie and if no adults you can add 1 extra juvie

[cosmic eagle]

Please, once bigger animals come in the game, im talking height, give Utahraptor a limit of how large animals it can succesfully pounce onto, i'd hate to see Utahs taking on rexes like in JP or some crap. Would only place Utahraptor back onto the trone of "playable for edgy children" TY ❤️

[torpid warren]

Please buff Utah’s bite force, increase it’s stam pool and increase the amount of bleed it gives somewhat. Utah is really weak and useless right now, even in packs. It is not viable compared to the rest of the dino roster, maybe against Dryo but that is it. Please give Utah some love again, work on fixing its pounce and the bleed and damage output associated with it and make it a fun playable again. Thank you! 💙

[dusk kelp]

Just adding on to the above comment, desync and server lag already make it so difficult to play Utah. At the very least, until pounce is fixed, buff the bleed or biteforce. What's happening now is that Utahs are having to biteforce their way to get kills, as pounce not working denies us our main source of bleed. The bleed from bites isn't all that impressive, it's the pounce. Give Utah another 20-30 biteforce, or increase the bleed done from bites. Also, Pachy ram needs to be figured out. I've had my leg completely shattered from one ram to the VERY TIP of my tail, and other times I can take hits to the body no sweat. Ram for both Pachy AND Carno shouldn't knockdown if it hits the tail, and it especially shouldn't fracture. Here is an example: https://youtu.be/-gzaAa2zvTE?t=420

[patent blade]

I have 1 small issue. Instead of breaking the carno's legs I break it's ribs, which has 0 gameplay impact (because broken ribs and internal bleeding don't mean anything apparently), thus getting me killed.

[indigo ice]

Y'all said you wanted some pachy feedback, so I have some.

1. Body Fractures are not impactful and getting one on a carno means nothing. You are still dead even if you get a good body fracture on them. Something more substantial like internal bleeding or less stamina or something along those lines could help.

2. Pachy's alt attack invalidates any Utah attack. They turn so fast for their damage, and Utah has no counterplay. Slowing it slightly can help, or increasing stamina cost. Pachy alt headbutt should be treated like teno kick. A less powerful stun attack but still uses a decent bit of stamina. Utahraptor also just needs a buff to it's bite damage and bleed to be an actual threat to everything in the game

[upbeat needle]

How does Stego manage to bring its tail up to its head in less than a second ?
Even the current tenonto is slower with a more muscled one and a smaller move
It makes it unkillable which makes no sense either

[dusk kelp]

I agree fully. The pachys speed was just fine before the buffs. Now that it's so much faster, it makes the one "50/50" matchup feel more like a 30/70. Utah's main ability doesn't work, and the best strategy for using bites is to bait attacks and go in during the animation lockouts. But by making Pachy and it's attacks so fast, there is very little lockout time, making it almost impossible for Utah to even bite the damn thing unless it just spams headbutt. Not that that would matter, as Utah still does the dmg of a pissed off kitten.

[lost totem]

Double the current amount of dmg Stego takes from headshots this things a brick shit house that literally cannot die once full grown unless the player is not at their keyboard
It’s only weakness being the head and it still takes eons to bring it down chewing on its head alone I feel like with how easy it is to avoid being headshot and being able to 1-3 shot a good chunk of the current roster your head getting ripped off should be your fatal flaw and not just something you can shrug off like rn

[upbeat needle]

A 70kg pachy is less noisy than a 65kg carno on a hard surface such as rocks and some of the tracks
Is far as I can imagine, they would pretty much have the same kinda feet so there is no reason why there actually is such a difference.

[sleek kindle]

You either need to make it possible for deinos to dig up mud and sediments in popular drinking spots to create small spots where a adult deino can hide and wait for an ambush or make small spots in popular drinking areas so deinos can actually achieve their diet (first pic is as close as i could get and hide as a 85% and the second pic is the second closest spot i could hide at the popular Drinking spot at the SE corner of Dam)

[meager granite]

Make it easier for herbivores to defend each other. It's impossible to keep babies alive currently, even when staying out. Hiding them in the bushes doesn't work, as carnos will just charge from all sides. A lot of herbs are being killed just for fun instead of for actual food. If compared to a real life herd, it should be close to impossible to break through the mid.

There's plenty chances for carnivores to attack when herbs are moving around for food or water, so it should really be harder to kill them while stationary.

People are complaining that herbs are too "over powered" and too many of them, but currently I meet a ton of carnos and very few adult herbs.

[wary dew]

why does pachy alt attack do more stun that its headbutt? I always end up with more damage done to me after getting hit by its alt attack because pachy can literally run around and hit me with a headbut with all the time Im stunned for free

[restive bronze]

From my experience:
Stego health needs to be nerfed a little and the tail hit box needs to be smaller (we get killed instantly even if we are latched onto a stego as utahs, and my full health adult carno died with one swing to the side), even as someone who has played stego before. Stegos can kill other Stegos way too easily.
Utah biteforce needs a buff, needs more health and stam, and bleed should do just a bit more.
Carno needs a biteforce buff too.
The rest I’m not sure as I haven’t played enough of them/with them. May come back with more.

[clever plover]

Dryo needs a buff to its dodge ability. I wish I could see it as the gazelle of the savannah, making swift turns when sprinting without loosing speed. At the cost of some stamina of course. they feel so weak when I play them in generall. give them some advantage when encountering carnivores atleast. just my thought.

[turbid meteor]

I have a concern like that’s there’s might be to much dinosaurs when the game is finished what I mean is especially for social dinosaurs who need groups there won’t be any because players are playing other ones so the dinosaur won’t be able to function properly due to being alone like maybe a system that shows you what dinosaurs are playing so you know what to play and what not to

[mighty quiver]

still cannibalism and mix packing how many years and game versions now?

[upbeat needle]

Fall damage are not balanced.
The damage should behave gradually with the height x weight x speed. But it seems like there is no progressive way to be hurt when you fall.
The very last time I fell with an adult carno, from maybe 2 carno heigts with no momentum : I literally died (where is the window where I break a leg/ankle/ or both ?)
Maybe I should have had multiple broken members instead. I might be wrong as you guys said human will bring a real sens of scale but it does not seem like the fracture system is really balanced as a fall consequence just yet .

[wise lark]

The stegosaur sides and back plates block a lot of vison when your zoomed in trying to sneak through brush. Maybe the camera can focus more on the head when zooming in.

[novel sail]

I am going to say this again.

Carnivores should not eat any more than 30% of their own body weight in food from an empty stomach when starving. Carnos should NOT be able to eat an entire carno to fill itself up.

Either properly adjust food values of carcasses or tweak the food values for each animal.

I propose that each carcass' entire weight yield once the gore update rolls out, should be 70% edible meat and muscle.

The other 30% will be bone, bone marrow, and a very small percentage of it will be the nutritious brain that only bone-crushing dinos can access. Bones will be part of a nutritious diet for bone-crushing dinosaurs, like tyrannosaurids, and ceratosaurs, and other scavengers.

[shell burrow]

^Get that this will change with gore and all but if i say eat a carno as a carno it shouldnt take 90% of that carno to get full

[torpid warren]

Please work on stabilizing pounce for Utah and adjusting its stats. It needs a damage, stamina, and bleed buff. Nothing crazy, but something to help balance out its small HP and blood pool. Also! There are so many amazing suggestions and ideas for game balance and mechanics that could be implemented. Please take a look at all of the awesome suggestions, there are so many good ideas here that could really help improve the game. Thank you! 💙

[restive bronze]

This! So much this. It would make things feel more thrilling as more updates roll out, adding more to look for a fear as you try to grab a bite. Not as much of a chore, and being more afraid of starving to death than being killed. So many people I play with just sacrifice themselves instead of trying to fill up their food because it takes so much to get full.

[lavish tundra]

Bleed needs a revamp

Currently bleed is just a 2nd healthbar with a timebomb. This is just a crappy way to make bleed a lethal way to die. I actually think legacy bleed worked well.

A. It was something to fear
B. Actually worked at your own health.

It shouldn’t be ideally like that however it should work something similar to this

When you get bit, pounced, etc, you start bleeding. Depending on a said creature they will have different amounts of bleed they apply to a creature. Some give naturally more bleed like Utah, Giga, Maybe Cerato, Bary etc. however it also depends on your target. Smaller targets will be easy to bleed out while bigger ones like pseudo apex’s and apex’s will not be as easy due to health pools

When you bleed it should slowly work at your health, little bleed won’t do much and applying bleed increases the value making a quicker work at your health.

How it’s different from legacy is that it should not increase the amount of bleed being delt as you run/walk. You should simply just lose blood at a certain rate. However when you get bit or pounced more times it will raise the bleed percentage. Meaning you will take bleeding damage quicker.

Healing bleed should be how it is currently however you cannot heal any bleed% past 50% by simply running or standing naturally. You must wallow and sit to heal bleeding and it will lower the percentage over time to when it’s back to 0 in which case you may move around without any bleeding.

I think this is a much more lethal way to introduce bleed but also makes it more manageable than legacy bleed

[upbeat needle]

It is actually nearly impossible to get coconut if you play solo fresh spawn pachy.
In consequence, it is hard to complete and balance that diet when you need it the most.

Maybe make more coconut fall by themselves of find another plant to help balancing the diet (or let small pachys ram 3/4 times to get one)

[urban venture]

Deino should only create ripples when its sprinting/swimming fast, its very unrealistic to be creating massive ripples when youre slowly moving or barely moving especially as a baby, this would make ambushing easier since deinos are then encouraged to slowly swim up to something just beneath the surface then lunge at them

[upbeat needle]

Maybe give more accurate and constant natural ripples when water is supposed to go around any rock, objects, leg, collides with the shore ... because even rivers are not disturbed that much so we can spot any movement really quickly.
Because, in my opinion anything that significantly moves in water should make ripples, but what could be interesting would be an alt + movement that would be the opposite of shift + movement : that would allow any deino to move slowly enough not to make any ripples or indistinguishable ones (like real crocs pretty much)

[sacred vale]

pachy doesnt need high damage, high stun, and high fracture all in one package. i would remove the stun on larger animals and put fracture in a state where theres more "in between" of leg fracture slowdowns. a "mild leg fracture" could do what running in water does and just slow down your normal run animation, letting pachy slow down something like a carno in one good hit. then the lack of stun means they cant be too cocky

[south shell]

Stegos need to be nerfed i just fought 6 of them with 15 deinos and all of the deinos died .. explain this

[shell vortex]

Make stego tail attack cost much more stamina, so they need to do it just at the right time. By doing this faking attacks would actually benefit you, giving some chance against stegos.

[grand dust]

My biggest issue in evrima right now is the stego, I think it has a lot to improve upon and also a lot going for it. Obviously it’s very slow and getting away from things is going to be difficult. So as a slow large herbivore that has no chance of escaping any of the strictly terrestrial threats, it needs to be strong. But not so strong that it can handle absolutely everything the game has to throw at it. Every dinosaur needs a weakness and I think stegos should be either bleed or headshots. Headshots would be for carnos and deinos to have a chance, and bleed would be for utah’s. Since stego is such a high damage animal, it needs to have a weak point. it needs a blind spot even if it isn’t always there. either the tail needs to take longer to reach up to the head or the tail needs to have a longer recharge or animation stop between swings. as is a stego can hit you at it’s head even if it’s directly after it has swung it’s tail (from a bait or otherwise) meaning that baiting isn’t effective and that high damage will land occasionally despite near perfect timing, making stego just so much stronger than it needs to be. Stego has a massive weapon with rightly massive damages to go with it, but the weapon is massive and so it needs some weight. stego swings that tail far too fast for the size of it and the bulk of the dino. Obviously the bleed would either be a decrease in blood pool on stego or a buff on the utah’s pounce when it’s pounced a stego. something like that would be great for the carnivores in the game to do their job, keeping populations down.

[tender raven]

I'm severely tired of being killed 10 feet away by a stego.

[torpid warren]

Please buff Utah’s damage output, bleed output, stamina, and stamina recharge rate slightly. Nothing massive, but something to make it more competitive with the rest of the roster. Especially in a pack. However, Utah’s low health and blood pool is good for balance, makes a solo Utah and a pack have to be very careful and keeps the playable balanced. However, Utah still needs a slight increase to it’s stats. Thank you! 💙

[scarlet copper]

This might just be blowing smoke at this point and saying what countless others have said but in the name of all that is holy....PLEASE NERF STEGOS! I spent 6 hours in QA growing a Deino (which BTW the increased growth rate from diets appears to not actually work for Deinos at all) to full size last week only to have a Stego slowly bully me to death by chasing me around the Center pond and slaughter me as I was trying to log out. All that time lost because a giant croc that's supposed to be able to eat dinosaurs that size gets murked in 4 hits by something it can't kill in at least that many hits

[stuck totem]

Baby Pteranodon in QA Branch is flying way too fast.

[lavish tundra]

Unpopular opinion we need bleed stages again

1st stage, negligible effects. Similar to bleed now but with some nerfs
2nd stage noticeable effects. Similar to bleed now but with some buffs
3rd stage, actual damage ticks. But nothing crazy like legacy. Just where it feels like it's not pretty

Bleed has the issue where it's too versatile yet doesn't feel impactful enough. So this change solves both of these issues.
Effective Utah pounces can outright skip to the third stage.
While brawlers cannot use bleed as an effective tool as before.
Bleeders will be seen as a menace if you let them have it their way.
With blood clotting, bleed will be strong but not without counterplay as it was in legacy.

[low garnet]

Deino needs some changes. It’s kind of a useless playable at the moment.
Major changes to its diet. Deino simply doesn’t come in contact with the ai on its diet right now. Possibly make deino need to “bask” for its diet. Forcing deino onto the shore and maybe filling up one of its nutrients?
Biteforce Buff
Deinos bite should actually be felt by stegos. Stego doesn’t have much to really worry about at the moment and is kinda of boring. If a deino ambushs a stego while it’s drinking and starts chomping on its head the stego should definitely want to get its head away. Stego should obviously still destroy a deino if it doesn’t get the jump on it. Basically buff deinos bite force so stegos can’t go fishing for it anymore. Possibly make its bite take stam if the damage was buffed or only buff the alt bite to prevent land gators.
Pachy needs more stam cost on its alt attack. It’s too spamable.
Not sure if this is server lag or another issue but it’s seems like pachy can never land leg fractures, only body fractures. This should be fixed.

[quasi kiln]

remove stego or nerf it, it is literally a walking tank that takes a stupid ammount of coordination to kill it and players and thats only if its alone

[twin breach]

I've made a suggestion for a bleed rework a while ago. Maybe you'll like it

The stages of bleed are the following:

25%: You start to feel exhausted, stamina consumption gets increased for x1,5,
stamina reg. and speed get slowed down for a total of -25%-35% and cap at 50% blood loss. Your playable starts to cough and gasp,the volume increases over time and will be an indication for ur foes of how much blood you have left. They can't tell exactly but a good hunter will listen carefully and would be able to roughly tell how much bleed you've got. Also this disencourages u from running away since at some point you'll breathe so loudly that the whole forest will hear u. Escaping isn't an option anymore, better stand ur ground now.

50%: Your skin gets slightly pale and you get more dmg from attacks bc of all the scratches and slashes you'd taken. A bleeder like utah still won't kill u with raw dmg even in a big pack but be careful if anything bigger shows up.

65%: Your screen starts to turn black like in the sleeping animation. Sounds start to get deafened, after sometime you'll hear nearly nothing except ur heart beat.

80%: You start to take dmg ticks. *

90%: Complete darkness. Fear takes over control. Is there hope left?

100%: You collapse and lie on the ground for a decent amount of time (5 minutes max). Dmg taken increased to 300%.
You can be glad not to feel the extreme pain that is about to tear you into pieces.

You fought well...

*The bleed damage should just be a safe lock so that herds or pack members can´t just merge around a collapsed target and defend it until it wakes up. You'll only die from the bleed dmg if u have reached a certain health threshold, bleed dmg should be nothing like legacy.

Locational damage should also affect how much bleed you lose.

You can change any numbers or when certain effects start to happen but what counts is the main idea.

[placid lotus]

I'm not sure how popular this is, but maybe tweak pachy? I mean I walked past 3 of them as a full grown Carno. Got stunned, then my skull apparently caved in (even though my head is way above the pachy). Accidental encounter yet felt like no way of getting away. They out stammed me too so kinda felt a little unfair. They're so aggressive in survival, it doesnt feel worth growing any dino just to be punted, bone broken and killed on sight in a few seconds.

[wise lark]

One thing I've noticed out animal survival games like The Isle & Animalia is that most players are ether a large herbivore or a large carnivore they're doesn't seem to a reason to chose the bottom of the food chain besides faster growth time. Which when it comes immersion doesn't make any sense, small creatures are the foundation to any ecosystem. So my ideas are either make larger creatures need more food (herbivores needing to eat constantly to sustain themselves causing food aggression amongst larger herbivores, but carnivores by they're very nature should be able go longer without food then an herbivore of the same weight), Or make a game mode were larger animals are locked until a certain number of smaller animals are on the map creating a functioning ecosystem based on server population.

[urban venture]

Add the feature to beable to toggle playables already, we should NOT have to deal with Stego and Deino in the game when they're apexes that mess with the balance of the game when we shouldve had more mid tiers instead.

[urban venture]

Get rid of the invisible hitbox behind every playable's tail, I found this out back in Update 3, it's not desync, your tail tip hitbox in reality is extended past your model further behind you, you can test this by biting right behind someones tail tip it still lands while theyre standing still, does a small amount of damage depending on whats biting you but does no bleed where as if you bite a player model's tail tip they take bleed. Why are tail hitboxes extended further than everyones model? this is also why Stego was very easily tail abused by Carnos in Update 2 but now Stego's thagomizers take no damage. It's also why Stego's tail thagomizer hitbox is longer than its actual model, getting questionable hits at times.

[real peak]

I only want to reply to this because we already knew the nutrients was going to need work, but also because I don't see the issue with this, the nutrient system is a beneficial and punishment system, take you for example, you think eating a bad diet will benefit you? Or eat McDs will slim you down? No not really, however I do agree in the sense that maybe it should be extended and give you time to achieve the ideal diet for you dino.

As it stands now, it needs tweaking which is normal but just like the diet can ADD I still believe the punishment is necessary to keep the game somewhat balanced. I don't know if I misunderstood in your earlier statement but it sounded like you wanted to just remove the punishment system all together

[craggy fern]

I just came in as a full Carno at 5% hunger from a previous save. I hunted a boar, two goats, and two deer, in a matter of minutes, which was great to be able to locate and hunt prey as necessary.

However, AI/bodies in general need to supply more food.
This boar, two goats, and two deer, only raised my hunger from 5% to 21%.
🐖 🐐 🐐 🦌 🦌

Hunger refill from feeding should be increased significantly.

[hollow ridge]

The new tracking system is really overpowered now that mud is significantly limited. Getting away from a tracking carnivore is basicly impossible regardeless of however you might move or hide.

[urban venture]

Update 4 took 7 months and still sucks, this all shouldve realistically took 4 months at most, I hope you devs learn how to create updates that dont take half a year or more from now on because if not well be on update 14 or even less in 5 years which if you think about it isnt alot for a entire 5 years. Also meaning were looking at update 6 being done by the end of next year at this rate.

[worn merlin]

Pachy It was good in qualiti, but after the General update it got a little weak, There are 27 head butts (No and the bite) to kill An adult Carnotaurus, I was disappointed, Fix it, it's boring.

[twin tide]

Give Carno more momentum. It’s a bit insane how fast it goes, with only minimal effort to turn completely around.

[sudden drum]

Deinosuchus Water drains way to fast on land in my Opinion and you always have to get air after being under water for what how long 3 or 5 Minutes? Has to be increased at least to 8 or 10 Minutes in my Opinion. He is a Ambush Predator he cant run after his Prey but if you have to get air every 5 minutes its freaking hard to rly ambush and you gotta time everything right. Crocs nowdays can stay under water for a few Hours. And you have to ambush your Pray under water grab it and drag it under water again how if you dont have enough oxygen. And its not rly Hard seeing a 8 meter long Croc at the surface. Also because most River parts are just to shallow. In my Opinion Rivers should be a bit deeper, Deino should stay under water for at least for 10 Minutes and the Water needs to be increased or the Speed how much it drains has to be decreased.

[weak cloak]

Testing ptera after patch and i really feel that you should be able to regen stamina while being latched like a resting bat 😌 latching seems to be working fine but its missing the last oompfh! of gameplay value.
Looking at the size of ptera i would expect that it could oneshot and grab rabbits and frogs! (atleast when adult).
Also, why cant ptera takeoff from water? Like all the birds that eat fish irl, it could be with higher stamina cost and delay or something, but it would make sense tbh.

[shell burrow]

Allow pachys to give stegos head fractures, makes sense and would be pretty fun

[shell vortex]

Please get rid of the center lake and find a better counterpart.. All land dinos do NOT drink water from rivers where deinosuchus lives, UNLESS in an urgent situation OR they are small and they dont care about it. They go to shallows instead because their speed and stam regen is sufficient, even when they are very thirsty. What is the point of deinosuchus ambush then? Not like rivers are teeming with deinos, there is still a good portion of rivers generally very less populated with them. Taking that risk as a land dinosaur isnt balance breaking, it just what makes deino a deino. #RemoveOasis

[terse atlas]

The pounce is swaying towards what kind of power I'd prefer it to have, and I appreciate the buff bleeding in general has had. I'm not sure if the removal of the knock-off feature for swiping utahs off pounce from trees and rocks is intentional, but I think its an interesting experiment within how controversial pounce is.

The removal of basic mud wallows near water certainly makes this broken, and I ask that the devs do not nerf pounce in a panic to the feedback. Consider adding back the basic mud wallows to give both sides of the pounce proper counters that don't feel unfair. Imo, the mud pool wallow spots are just unfair given the massive buffs to bleed from what I've seen so far. Wallowing is, in my opinion, now the focal point of the bleed debate in the present build.

[honest bone]

I had an experiment after I ate one orange, as a starving baby pachy, I ate one orange I went from 0 hunger to 100 instantly, and I don't think this should be the case, because when I was in quality assurance I had ate an orange as both a juvi Dryo and a Hypsi, and I did not upchuck my insides. I just think it would be better if a fresh pachy did not puke when it eats one orange while it is starving. thanks 🙂

[lofty storm]

I've tested the new mechanics with food and growing enhancement, i really love the mechanics. But following the good diet for your dino doesn't give you any growth bonus compare to the old way of growth. We do not grow up faster than the basic growing time... So it is really punitive if your are not at 120% growth rate.. quite sad. Normally a deino take 6h to grow up full adult. So if we got a 120% growth rate, we should take less than 3h to grow up full adult... But instead, it takes again 6h to grow up full adult with the 120% growth rate... there is something wrong. At first i was excited to be able to make my dinosaur grow faster than before, thanks to the food system. And when I see that the system makes it difficult for me to grow so much ... it kinda disgusts me to play.
You actually have great gameplay ideas, but you don't capitalize on them with this kind of example, in my opinion.

[sudden drum]

Ok i just came back into the server but i played idk 8 Hours ago and before i could drink and my Water would fill up but now it drains even faster then i can drink. I mean wtf is that. Makes 0 Sence. And the River is Waaaay to loud i mean you cant hear anything. Its making also no sence that the River is so loud without having any rocks or a water fall nearby.

[cloud acorn]

Ffs make juvi Pachy able to get coconuts out of trees already, this is shitty

[dense lotus]

Just had to stop playing as there are fewer people online now and there is no AI spawn anymore. Ran around the whole map and sniffing but nothing. Poor gameplay. Fix this

[cloud acorn]

So I've had multiple instances when I hit a Utah with a fully charged ram as a Pachy and they just proceeded to get up and run without any fractures or at best a body fracture that still doesn't prevent them from getting away, and the time in which they're stunned is not enough for me to kill them with alt attacks. However if I would get pounced even for 3 seconds I would bleed out unless I wallowed. The matchup is way too forgiving for Utah, getting hit by a fully charged ram shouldn't allow them to just get back up and fuck off into the woods.

[rapid merlin]

nerf bleed bruh

[thick ether]

While it's nice that utah is fixed and carno isnt the top cancer of the island anymore, the indirect buffs were a bit excessive. With wallowing being pretty much luck based with being near a designated wallowing site when you are attacked by raptors (or any bleed heavy animal in the future), bucking taking forever to have any affect (pretty sure that shits broken now too) and trees/rocks no longer working to scrape the little fuckers off, they are just too much of a menace now. I think obstacle scraping should return, and when trample is added, heavy dinosaurs should be able to crunch lighter grapplers and pouncers against trees and rocks for varying amounts of damage.

[dense lotus]

Ok so first I tried my carno on server EU-1. Low level population. Died of starvation: NO FOOD spawning in. Walked around the whole map, sniffing : N O T H I N G.
I went on EU-4, same story: no food spawning in.

[lavish tundra]

Buffing Utah was the right direction
But it was done in the wrong execution fashion.

Utah shouldn't play like the other playables like Pachy/Teno. Winning the encounter from landing one or two special abilities.
Carnivores aren't defensive, they're offensive so they should have to work to get their kills. Utah is strong but not in an engaging way.
This might be controversial, but nerf pounce. To compensate, buff bite's damage/bleed.

Let me work to get my kills. The appeal of why people play Utah is to be challenged and overcome greater odds

[polar salmon]

To add onto the above, there should definitely be more wallow sites around the map. I crossed more than half of the center planes and didn't (notice) any wallowing spots.

Put simply, either make the current locations more obvious (so they aren't hard to notice) or add more around the map.

I would suggest putting them primarily around the borders of jungle/plains since this would still add a deal of risk when fighting as they can accommodate most/every dinosaurs preferred 'biome' for fighting. (Utah jungle, hiding/turning | Carno plains, lots straight running and the mud pool itself for any daring deinos) and not be a simple safezone but a stop you try to weave into evasions or a way to conclude a fight/hunt.

[worthy edge]

Utah is Finally Good again
Hunting is now rewarding if you play in a Pack and Punishing if you're to risky against for example a Pachy or Tento
Squishy but Strong in the same time if you use him right
10/10 Balance absolute Perfect imo and how Utah is supposed to be

[median ravine]

@lavish tundrathe only fight a utah wins with a pounce is vs another utah OR... and stay with me on this, a pachy IF you land a single full duration pounce with max stamina and the pachy does not buck you off, the bleed is enough to kill a pachy, but considering you can buck us of in under 4 seconds and drain all our stamina there is nothing stopping you from chasing down said utah and killing it defenceless. A carno can be bled out in 2 full stamina pounces but again this never happens because of buck and stamina drain dancing around eachother and such. In 1vX situations you should expect to die, especially where the pack is coordinating and memebrs are resting to ponce you again or keep you on your feet to bleed out. Taken out of context and in 1v1 utah doesnt win a fight vs any other herbi save the dryo, they are a threat to nobody in this light. Your comment shows a considerable lack match up knowledge and bias.
@polar salmon i agree with you 100% on this, but i'm also divided. Bleed is a good mechanic and is realistically the only way a utah can make a kill on anything grown, if you make wallowing too plentiful then you are removing the utah's strategy and they are already in a pretty bad place.
Saying that, there should be more wallow spots, i'm still a fan of wallow spots by bodies of water so that crocs get a chance at eating you, i think wallow shots should not be the whole riverbank but seperate mud puddles at the river banks or inland. I would like to see them added as points of interest with your sniff mechanic - let them show up on the radar.

[serene zephyr]

ok, from my experience as a human in game. I believe that humans shouldn't be this strong. They are able to take out a juvi deino, which weigh almost 4 times the amount that they do in just about 5 hits. Furthermore, Humans shouldn't have such large health bars as realistically, they'd die to almost every single dinosaur in the game aside from maybe the low tiers that aren't a utahraptor, like the hypsi, compy or even dryo. So, for the sake of balance, anything should be able to take out humans fairly easily if of course, they do not possess any weapons.
Due to predicted weaponry coming for humans in the near future, i believe that humans should at the most be 2 shot to lowtier as for the most part, once a human does get a weapon there isn't a single thing in game that could possibly take out a human without under going serious damage by being sprayed by bullets or suffer from heavy bleed due to weaponry being brought into the game.
However, to give the humans a chance at surviving early game. they should start off with some supplies early in the game and perhaps, if the player has armor on, they could survive more hits? but still wouldn't be so game breaking either. Additionally, giving a scent mechanism of sorts to humans or even a gps could help the player navigate around the area could help as well so that they don't die out because of hunger or couldn't find water.

Overall, i believe that humans in terms of strength should be nerfed down a lot as they can even take out adult dinosaurs as a solo player.

[upbeat crypt]

I've said it once and I'll say it again; this new bleed healing system is broken. Where are these supposed mud pits and why are they borderline-impossible to find? Years ago, people were complaining that bleed damage would always kill everyone in a fight, no matter who won, so it was changed to not kill players when they were sitting. Then, it was changed to wallowing in the riverbanks and mud trails. These options gave players a chance to live after a good fight. It's frustrating that we had these efficient solutions to a major problem, and now these solutions have been backtracked on yet again. Yeah, mud pits exist, but where are they? Players should not have to worry about no escape from bleeding out once a fight is done, and the solution to that shouldn't be some remote mud pit that no one can find.

[woven bone]

Return riverside wallows to give more incentive to go to the river - thereby giving croc players more opportunities to ambush. Make the mud pits a more effective/longer lasting wallow or something.

[shell hill]

First off I’d like to say utahs are in a really perfect spot right now so good job devs👍but I think there should be more mud pits or be an easier way to find it this wouldn’t effect utahs too much since if something tries to wallow they could bite it and continue the bleed but it would still give the prey a chance to survive the bleed

[dreamy patrol]

Maybe bring back wallowing at certain spots along the river banks. Not the entire river bank.

[lavish tundra]

Nerf stegos blood pool

[fleet saffron]

tracking system is op in hunter favour, its better dont get me wrong, but makes trying to escape a hunt a little pointless, because if something gets ur tracks then you're fucked no matter what you do and you should be able to lose the hunter in some way, not feel like 'well im fucked so might as well offer myself up xD you can't sit because they know exactly where you are from footprints plus if the hunt goes on long enough you will die of starvation of the debuffs from a neg diet because you cant stop and eat, mudpools are again time consuming so by the time you are midway through you have been caught... not sure what the fix should be but there needs to be something to help you lose the hunters. going in the right direction tracking wise but gone in favour of the hunter not giving the prey any equal chance to escape without having a adult stego to ward things off (my own personal opinion ofc) 😁

[obsidian fox]

I think that walking through mud or water should get rid of your tracks instantly for a few vital seconds.

Giving a smaller herb or carni that can't fight back a chance to escape.

[still barn]

The negatives starting off as a herbivore and hitting rock bottom before you find all your food stuffs felt pretty harsh to me. Found a tree, headbutted it as a pachy, and no fruit fell. Gotta say, full servers feel like they are 98% carnivores, 2% herbivores because starting at base level and then adding negatives on top of that feels really frustrating, not challenging.

[worthy edge]

Herbis should not get a Easier diet if some people say it should be easier
they have already enough time for PvP

[sudden drum]

I gotta say i just explored the Map a bit as a Deino or rather the Rivers and sadly i gotta say that it got worse. The Devs put in another Hotspot for all other Dinos and made it worse for the River and the gameplay for Deinos. 80% of the Rivers are way to shallow and 90% of the Map isnt used at all because everyone is at the Pond near Center or at Shallow waters. The whole map would be used if there wasnt the pond or/and shallow water. Ppl would explore the Map more. We have 100 Ppl on the server and i was swimming for 2 Hours mabey and only saw 8 Players, 6 of those were other Deinos and the other 2 were Pteranodons flying over my Head. They increased the amount of Cannibalism because nothing has to drink at the river anymore. And when you swim from Center towards the Pond every little rock stops you which is annoying. I rly hope that the Devs have a good reason for putting in another Hotspot. I dont see any logic behind it. Mabey Ppl started crying about getting Lunged at the River and as always the Devs made it easier for those. I dont only see it in the Isle i see it in every other game to that the Devs are always listening to those who Cry and make it easier for them. But its a Hardcore Horror Survival Game and Ppl have to start living with it when they Die to a Deinosuchus. As i sayd the Gameplay as a Deino right now is just Horrible. I even say if they deleted Deino nobody would notice it.

[amber violet]

Rivers are too shallow and too narrow, and take up too much map real estate. Worse yet, they still manage to be consistently overcrowded. Deinos themselves are in a bad place right now too, because as a baby deino you have nowhere to go to flee from an adult Deino, but your pack limit is 2. It's not even a matter of "surviving" to adulthood because the only way you'll make it there is by finding an adult that won't eat you, and/or will allow you to coexist with them even though their pack is already full.

Water gameplay sucks in EVRIMA.

[paper harbor]

carno is really bad atm it does very little damage and will get bodied by a utah pack tenos and especially pachy needs a bite buff

[onyx granite]

buff body fracture idk y a utah can pounce, a carno can charge and so on, please. its bad enough us pachy 1 tricks have to deal with current utah.

[worn merlin]

Pachy Got Weaker After Official Update, Before He Killed One Meat With 6 Or 5 Head Butts, But Now It's 27 Headbutts (No Nutrients) To Eliminate A Carnotaurus, And 20/17 Headbutts On Carnotaurus, when the pachy is 100% full of nutrients, a pachy could kill a beef with 6 or 8, butts, but 27/17, I find it very ridiculous!!

[gray bone]

While I like that pachy can't outright kill It's predators easily, body fracture is laughable. For utah it kinda does something cause utah needs stam to work, carno however gets nothing done to it. Carnos with body fractures never let up, and imo any fracture should put these 2 out of commission. It needs to either have a bigger impact on stam, or needs something else to make it better.

[thick ether]

Body fracture should put a cap on stamina, similar to the hunger sickness cap, with scaling severity. Being smashed in the ribs should actually have a worrying affect, not just make you tired a little faster. If your stamina pool is flat out reduced while fractured it might actually feel like a punishment, especially if severe body fractures can cut maximum stamina by a hefty amount.

[urban venture]

There should be body fracture for both Teno tail slam and Carno charge when hit with it 2 times or more. When Carnos get stunlocked they just keep fighting, give them a reason to back down with a body fracture and for Teno if it gets hit multiple times with a charge it should be weakened with the body fracture debuffs.

[lavish tundra]

deinos are in a really bad place right now imo. I think their diet is far too punishing considering they only have decent access to one of their three foods. The addition of ponds really kills the chances of a deino actually killing something other than a deino (which was already quite difficult). Mud pits also effect this.
There is simply no reason for other dinos to go near a river, so all thats left is deinos eating fish and cannibalising eachother to stay alive. Once you hit 50% you better enjoy your perfect diet while it lasts, because it is almost impossible to sustain.

[livid igloo]

So far from what I could gather playing 4.0. The balance is in a very good spot overall. Here are some observations I could gather after a good 20-30 hours of playtime on it.

The largest issue BY FAR is the performance degradation over time when many people are in one area. It becomes quickly unplayable. Thankfully doing a relog usually greatly temporarily improves the performances for a short while but this screams memory leaks. No one wants to play a game that looks like a powerpoint slideshow. I'm talking strickly on a frame rate level here as the server performance seemed very good everytimes I played no matter how many people were around me

There is still an issue where you might lose your prog even when safe logging... Reconnecting a few times might fix it... or not... this really should not happen anymore

Pachies seems a bit over represented and slightly too strong but haven't played it too much yet. The alt click does seem very strong agains't utahs however... the knock down from alt click is most likely a bit too long...

Utah pounce needs to fall out of the stego's deadzone more consistently. It should not be a free kill to get pounced. Sometimes you also randomly end up laying on the ground right after connecting a pounce (doesn't happen too often). But other than that the pounce now feels very sharp. Good job on that.

Reduce the amount of shallow waters in center pond on both ends to force land animals to take more risk when drinking or chose to go drink on the east and west rivers. Doing so should make playing deino more interesting without too much work needed...

The new teno tail slam seems gimmicky at best. I kind of see what you guys were going for but it is counter intuitive to do less damage when using speed to your advantage. If you're gonna go this way at least reduce the amount of inertia impact on the stronger tail slam as sometimes only turning on yourself to intercept an upcoming opponent triggers the weaker one... I think triggering the weaker tail slam only during sprinting and not trotting (fast walk) would be better...

Make better use of the new coastline which is sublime and almost devoid of visitors. Everything is way too concentrated around center pond. It creates both boring gameplay and massive client-side performance issues

[lavish tundra]

So, I don't know what anyone thinks of this but!
I personally feel like Teno should do abit of fracture dmg. Not too much so it just constantly does it, but atleast a bit. The way it could work perhaps, is for the kick, every part of the body can be fractured while for tail of the Teno, it's only the head that's able to be fractured. This would not allow Tenos to hammer on someone with their tail and then completely immobilize them and would also mean they'd have to use their kick alot more if they wanted to fracture an a opponent while still able to use the tail and get a lucky headshot fracture in

[frosty cedar]

I tested the new update, I really liked it, but there are a few nuances.

1. Pachy I don't understand his hitbox headbutt (charged), hits the tail and the ribs or legs break, unlike Pachy, Utah's special ability, jumping into the tail (tenontosaurus) does not accept it as part of a dinosaur, but simply flies as if it does not exist. For Utah, this is a painful topic.
2. I also want to note that a charged headbutt causes damage that does not depend on the duration of the charge (holding RMB). Why would I click on a weak LMB hit if I can do more damage with an RMB just by clicking on it a few times.
   Can do damage fluctuation. For example, if you quickly click on the RMB, the same damage will take place as the LMB and the chance of a bone fracture will be small or there will be no fracture. And the longer you delay the RMB, the stronger the damage will be and the chance of a fracture will be higher.
3. A charged head kick while running should slow down Pachy's speed when he stretches out for a kick.
   This I think you do not need to explain.(PHYSICS).
4. While playing for stego, I noticed that he had a tail kick too fast. And the micro stun does not always work, after the yuta jumps off, I can immediately hit him.
   I think it is necessary to reduce the speed of the tail strike and observe the balance further
5. Playing for Tenontosaurus, I noticed 1 bug when uta clung to me, I walked in a zigzag and after uta jumped off, he was under my tail. And of course he died with one blow.
   I've been able to do this several times.
   I also want to add UTAH, if we take the scale of a small newly appeared Utah pounce further than an adult. Also, I don't quite understand why an adult 100% Utah should cut down on speed, Utah 85-98% of growth run faster than 100%. Why?

[sudden drum]

I survived with my first Deino after the update to adultage but still the only thing i did was getting one Nutrient full after 50% from the Fishes and thats it nothing else and were always Hiding in Bushes. But the Problem now as a Adult is still that you cant get your Nutrients to a 100% because NOTHING has to drink at the River anymore so the Devs made the River even more useless now then it was before the update because of the Center Lake now. Another safe zone to drink from and the Shallow waters which are 100% safe to drink from. They made Deino completly Useless and Boring to play now. So many Ppl complained about Cannibalism and now with this update they increased the amount of Cannibalism because you cant find anything else besides your own kind (Deino) and Fishes. After 3 Days of being a Adult or 2 days idk i saw a Utah for the First time at Shallow waters. I wonder why. I can understand it if you have to do Cannibalism sometimes as a Croc but not 24/7 because the Devs thought that adding another Safe zone to drink from was a good idea. Everything in this Game should be Risky and dangerous. Every single part. Take out Shallow Water and the Center Lake and make only some crossovers Shallow so you can get from one side to the other side but the rest Deep. You will see way more players on every other Part of the Map. I even say that 70% of the Rivers are way to Shallow and way to thin. I always loved playing Deino because hes a Ambush Predator but now i dont enjoy him anymore because there is NOTHING to Ambush after this brilliant Update. Sry Devs but yeah the game looks beatiful but you fucked up this Update in my Opinion. And if every Update is gonna take 5-7 Months i dont see this game nearly finished in 5 Years. Im going to see the T rex in 20 Years. Mabey

[pale sedge]

you need to make it so deino can't be grown by server admins. I always see massive packs of deinos in one place and all they do is steal kills they never hunt. also thye grow too easy. either mega nerf them or take them out

[median ravine]

pounce dismount is still broken. You will inconsistently drop of a target sometimes close sometimes further away, however as with all the updates a stego can still watch and wait for the dismounter and snipe him for a one shot. Teno can actually slam a utah on dismount if they pay attention, carno can guarantee a bite on dismount and a pachy can still headbutt a dismounting utah - the utah has been shit on over and over again by casuals who play this game and put pressure on the devs (not like they understand their own game anway). admittedly pounce is in a better position now bug wise that its been in the past BUT still you can dismount and be left floating in the air, you can pounce a utah on a stego from the OPPOSITE side because of funky hit boxes. as good as pounce bleed is, its almost a death sentence using it at all. it still needs a dismount fix.

[terse atlas]

Please fix AI respawns ASAP. They do not respawn, all carnivores starve to death after the first 3 hours of a server restart.

[urban nymph]

As an ambush predator, deinosuchus feels like it spends more time above water regaining air then underwater undetectable. You could argue "dont sit underwater all the time then"

And I don't!

I actually sit angled underneath foliage overhanging the water to:

1. not lose water or drown
2. be able to see above water and sense if bigger gators are swimming past
3. have any chance of remaining hidden from bigger gators.

Now the problem with me doing that... is even though all I hit is CTRL to submerge, it looks like I've just cannonballed into a pool with the ripples and loud splashing I let off that can be heard from WAY too far away - so it's either play safely until you're big enough to be able to give other big gators pause, or risk dying. In no way does ambushing land-based dinosaurs come into that scenario BECAUSE I cannot be underwater for extended periods of time.

One could argue thats to prevent AFK growers - if people want to neglect their diet and AFK grow a deino, power to them. That's a long ass time. But for players who enjoy ambush playstyles, it feels like I'm spending more time going "goddamnit I need air" when I'm waiting/watching a herd/pack come in close and I can't yoink something in, because I know I'm going to have to surface in a hidden spot and give away my position with obnoxious splashing noises.

Potential solutions: if you want to go a realism route, you could add a "heart chamber" mechanic which DRASTICALLY reduces the oxygen consumption, but also reduces your speed, bite force and turn radius ect - sacrificing mobility/combat ability for longevity underwater.

Alternatively you could also just.... either increase the oxygen cap or reduce oxygen consumption.

Having just timed it:

I can stay underwater at 46% growth (Edit: at 100% it doesn't change and now I'm regretting sinking that much time into a glorified fish eater) for 4:42s from submerging and it takes 1:45s to refill oxygen to full. Less then 5 minutes underwater, as an underwater ambush predator? It doesn't feel good, and really takes out of "the hunt" when you've been watching a herd for 20+ minutes and just as they get close, you have to surface again because they dawdled for a moment. It's frustrating gameplay that does not feel rewarding for my patience. And as a PLAYER I now know even if if dehydrating to death - all I have to do is wait less then 5 minutes (which won't be the death of me) and I'll know it's safe to drink.

TLDR: Deino can only spend LESS then 5 minutes underwater which feels godawful for an underwater ambush predator. Diving makes splashing that can be heard from way too far away which makes getting air near prey impossible. It makes actually hunting and lying in wait non existent compared to the hunt time land based predators can have.

[lavish tundra]

Potential idea for Maggy, having a good diet is important- what if- maggy had a kinda effect where biting it or eating it- would triple or quadruple the rate at which ones diets. Or simply make creatures that aren’t supposed to eat it- sick to the point where it pukes-

[white radish]

Deino in real life has a stronger bite than Rex.... But yet a carno can kill a deino like it's nothing.... And deino can't drag a carno under water lol... Funny af

[sweet rivet]

OK here me out

What if for pachy to help its whole injure someone and run away it should do mostly injury damage and less actual damage but of course hitting something its size would still hurt pretty decently

[indigo ice]

I have one request for balance. Re-add Riverside wallowing. Perhaps it could be less-long lasting as using a mud pool, but because of the Utah buffs, bleeding out is once again an actual problem

TLDR: I suggest river-bank wallowing coming back, perhaps in a slightly nerfed state.

[worthy edge]

Place a bit more (not to much) wallow spots not on the Riverside because that will just go back River Camping and Utah would become useless again

Besides Utahs Bleed is Good atm to stop the server from only Running Adult Dinos

[quasi kiln]

do something to stegos, they can body camp with nothing to worry about since they are tanky af and can basically face tank anything in the game rn

[dawn tundra]

Body Fractures could use a buff of some kind, they’re still pretty much useless and have little impact on a fight. A carno with a body fracture can just simply ignore it and continue chasing down and killing whatever it wants after receiving said fracture. Feel like something with broken ribs shouldn’t be continuing to effortlessly chase down and kill it’s target without a care in the world. Perhaps a more severe stamina penalty would help?

[pale sedge]

ok guys you need to nerf the baby carno. I have a good 40% of that carnos size as my baby utah and not even a scartch appeared atfer a full fucking bar of stam. WAY TOO MUCH HEALTH for a lightweight predator biult for speed and to catch small dinosaurs. either nerf speed or health. also WHY THE FUCK is the ptera so fast on the ground? i literally got chased down by these things as a baby utah. they weren't flying. also extend the utah pounce range and speed pls

[lavish tundra]

This one is for Deinosuchus and considering its diet. I personally believe that Deinosuchus shouldn't have a diet as they are extremely opportunistic hunters.
It is very hard to play and grow a Deinosuchus with the diets as you cannot go on land and look for specific animals like Tenos, Pachy's etc. All you can do is hope luck is on your side to bring all the animals for your diet near your location.
Another issue, is newly added lake that makes this even worse. As it quickly became a hotspot not only for being a lake but also being relatively shallow, it is hard to even hunt as a Deino in the lake simply because you have to get so close and simply reveal yourself to everyone long before you are in lunge distance. And due to the lake being so far into the open plains, rivers are essentially empty and void of any potential prey you need for your diet to grow.

[honest bone]

I personally playing an adult stego have seen this happen to me and others where if you kill something, they will spawn back as a baby Utah and bite and grapple on and you can't do anything, I killed 2 adult deinos, but I couldn't rest because I was being harassed by 4 baby Utahs

[raw shuttle]

Remove the shallow part of the new pool, in the middle of central ... Deynos are nerfed by it. They cant go on land, and whoever comes to drink, goes to the shallow part...

[pastel shell]

Been playing Deinosuchus since it was released and honestly it was always very slow gameplay unless you take huge risks.
1 - Oxygen - Why is it you can only hide underwater for around 5 minutes? I'm not expecting to be underwater for an hour or anything but 5 minutes is nothing. Should be anywhere from 15-30 minutes easily. Find myself mostly hiding in bushes hanging over the water then actually underwater.
2 - Diet/Ponds/Shallows - With the recent diet update the only time you're going to get a full diet is if you walk onto land and steal already dead dinos from people taking a huge risk. The ONLY time I see people drink from the deep water is when they're A - New Players or B - Want to die. Every single land dino has dozens of safe options for drinking water around 70% of the rivers are shallow enough to either A - See a 100% Deino swimming or B - Deino actually cannot go under and has to slowly walk. Every update since deino was added the rivers have been shrinking and less areas that deinos can traverse safely. The whole river going south has shrunk and now any deino going up is essentially walking. Why is there a pond in center with a couple bushes around the pond and then all open fields? Not only does this effect deinos but also other predators since the massive herb packs can see them coming from miles. Have some shallow places to drink but don't let them be 100% safe. I'm literally on land hiding in bushes trying to ambush like a utah right now then in the water and my success rates in getting food have grown 1000% and I wish that was a joke. I'm not saying deino should be all powerful but drinking should be a stressful situation. Also please make the rivers WIDER sick of seeing everyone just run across "deep" water parts. Crossing water should be very stressful or make a long walk to go around.

[strange atlas]

Hello, so i am writing this feedback, because i tryed to play the dryo, but i couldent dig for roots or even eat form some plants. Also when i try to drink water at a lake or a river, at some points i just dont get any water for drinking and at some areas i do. could you guys please fix this? Thanks in advance 🙂

[honest bone]

I'm here on issue of the pachy, I had an adult Utah pounce on me when I was at the mudpit, and I was an adult 100% and I wallowed immediately and I also got bit once, however I was left with 59% blood, pachy bleeding is abysmal, you can't fight anything unless you have mud near you, or you will bleed out after the fight almost always. Carnos for example they know they can win with brute force but they don't take that risk, they will bite you once, twice, maybe thrice and wait for you to bleed out because unless you have mud and 2 or 3 buddies to make sure you wallow without getting bit you will bleed out, and it makes pachys so dependent on mud, and with the recent removal of a lot of mud around the map the pachy is incredibly unbalanced after getting bit, a few bites and you're dead. Even a juvi Utah can do a lot of bleed to a full adult pachy after pouncing enough to make them lose a lot of blood if they don't get to mud, and I just think the pachys need a buff in the blood department, because the bleed resistance is non existant I wallowed and got bit by a Utah 6 times and I had .25% bleed a second and I wallowed in the first place because I got bit and I was bleeding a lot. either Utahs need less bleed, or Pachys need more bleed resistance. I have witnessed 7 pachys against 2 carnos 5 were adults and 4 adults died as well as 1 juvi, and me and the last adult got away, and neither carnos died. The issue with the pachy is you bite it a few times and then you keep it in on its feet it will die, unless it kills you can it happens to be in the vicinity of a mudpit, I was just in another group 5 pachys, 3 adults, against 2 Utahs guess who won, both Utahs none died every last pachy died.
In short need 1 possibly 2 of these buffs. Blleed resistance, the amount of time after a bite which bleeding stops, or they get blood back faster, as mentioned earlier, pachy bleeding is abysmal and this is also one of the reasons nobody played/plays pachy in legacy

[unkempt lagoon]

ai spawn feels very low. ive died of starvation after spawning in 3 times now because theres no food to be found anywhere, you spawn with no food in the tank, and youre too small to fight anyone else. starving to death on repeat because the map is empty is incredibly boring.

[lavish tundra]

After playing for a few days both in "Deathmatch" and Live(Survival) environment :

Carnotaurus
Carno definitely got bonked to it's place, I agree that it was cancer before but I feel like the nerfs were a bit too much. I completely agree with the fact that Carno should rely on it's special ability (charge/ram) if its want to take on the bigger smalls, but as it right now Charge is not in a good place. It is incredibly hard to land and the reward for it is mediocre. Let's start with the fact that once your prey noticed you, there is no way you can ram them, which makes it useless in an already started battle. Second, it has the most chance to land it on Tenonto, because both Utahraptor and Pachy is agile, small and fast and can dodge your charge really easily, even tenonto can but it's a way bigger target so you have the biggest chance landing on them, but it just not rewarding. Due to it's recent changes to Carno's mobility, you are lucky if you can manage to bite it two times before it stands up, but an average or let's say a tenonto that isn't endlessly stupid, need to catch you with a tail slam once [stunlock], and then spam it and boom you are dead. Which is again, I'm fine with, it's just not really a fair match anymore, especially because you shouldn't even try to kill a tenonto without charge landed with how the things are currently balanced. To be fair, Charge is strong against the real small ones ( Pachy, Utah) you know, because they have the hp pool of a critter, but it's not really made against those kinds of dinosaurs. If a Pachy/Utah notice you even in the last second, it can still dodge you because of agility/speed, so therefor I rather look at charge as a weapon against bigger small tiers like tenonto (and more that's not implemented yet). And against Tenonto, it fails to deliver. I charged an already damaged Tenonto, I landed 3 bites while he was on the ground, but after the third one I got a tail slam on my tail (which stunned me btw) and after that it took 5 more bites to kill it, the only reason I managed to kill it because it was already out of stamina because of the previous battle.

Suggestion : Let's pump it's biteforce back to be around 200-220 ish which is a bit more generic solution and can affect Carno vs Utah/Pachy a bit negatively, or what I would prefer just buff Charge impact damage so whenever a Carno can actually land it, it feels like it does something. I feel like this wouldn't make it overpowered, because Carno's mobility is finally what it should be. A speed demon that turns like boat.

(part1)
[Oh, and before people say it should be only used while ambushing, we are talking about an animal that is running around on plains with a very few trees and bushes and it also lets out sounds. An average player if pays attention to it's surroundings on plains, will never be ambushed]

[cloud acorn]

I guess if you don't want juvi Pachy to ram trees for coconuts, you could add a 4th plant to its diet that it can eat as a juvi to get the third nutrient, and when it hits 50% growth that 4th plant is off the diet list because you can now eat coconuts.

[trail heart]

I believe stun locks Should not be a thing players have to deal with. Whether it be pachy, teno, or utah. It's unbalanced and ruins the fun for other players. It also doesn’t take much skill to do so either making things unbalanced. I will post each individual creature so you all can give your thoughts on each idea/creature. If I’m wrong or you know something I don’t please let me know.

Utah
For the most part I like utah’s pounce. Takes skill to use, punishment for missing seems adequate, and does good damage. However I think you should have some way of fighting back. I know as larger creatures you can hit them on trees and such but that’s not always an option. I think you need some way of shaking them off (I’ve heard this is a thing but I’ve never seen it). And as a smaller animal some sort of struggle mechanic to maybe get away. Otherwise mostly good.

Teno
I mostly love teno. However the tail slap is super broken. You can single handedly destroy a caro with a single tail slap and stun lock it to death. Which personally for me it’s disappointing to win like that. An easy to use stun lock on other players that does a lot of damage is in my opinion very unbalanced.

Pachy
A stun mechanic with high damage, blinding, jaw break, and leg break is super broken when in 2 shots you can do that to a full carno. Top that with the speed of a utah and the fact that starvation is hard for a herbie I feel this is pretty broken. Granted it usually takes 2 or more pachies. However if a couple pachies find you and decide you’re dead, you’re dead. Otherwise I like pachy.

solution
I’m not sure, perhaps something along the lines of you can only be stunned once every so often to avoid the lock. I like stun mechanics, just not being locked into death with nothing I can do. Or perhaps changing the get up times. Either way balance needs to be taken very seriously so we don’t get a repeat of legacy.

[hazy zinc]

To back up the post above this, pachy is quite overtuned right now. All of its buffs were to help it in the carno matchup so it doesnt get instantly eviscerated, but it made it unreasonably difficult for utah to hunt. The main issues are:

1. it's as fast as a tenonto
2. it turns on a dime and feels weightless
3. its headswing is incredibly spammable and closes off all openings that utah could use to potentially bait and dodge a hit
   Pachy can pretty kill a utah with one headbutt, meanwhile utah cannot do the same to a pachy. Utah/Pachy were meant to be a relatively even matchup but right now that doesn't seem to be the case.

[radiant nebula]

Please change diet for deino, let's be honest here, you can't realy have a perfect diet as an adult, you are going to eat mostly other deinos and fishes. The chances you gonna kill a stego or somthing else from other diets it is pretty low.

[terse atlas]

remove head fractures for carno, this makes 0 sense to get head fractured from the legs 9/10 times from a pachy. our head is so high above pachy, how is that even possible

[honest bone]

Utahs, ohh how fun it is to run across the entire map with my 18% carno that goes 46 kp/h , while a newborn Utah which I witnessed spawn had enough stamina to chase me across the map and continue even though I had time to rest and I had bled out because baby Utahs can run for 4 damn minutes, nerf bleed, or nerf stamina, or make their speed the same as every other baby species. Baby Utahs kill baby Dryos, they can kill hypsis, they can kill baby pachys, baby tenos if they're not braindead, along with 2 or 3 taking down baby stegos, and just now a baby carno, they are undisputedly the best hatchlings in the game and they grow so fast, they need a nerf, a slower Utah growth time wouldn't do anything because once again Hatchlings can make almost juvi carnos bleed out, I was bleeding .40% of my blood a second from a pounce from the rat at night when he's as tall as the short grass. It's very difficult to chase them, doing so will make you bleed out faster, unlimited stamina, can't run away even though I run twice as fast, even when I was resting and gained my stam back which he had no time to do, he chased me across the entire plains to my demise because hatchling Utahs are completely unbalanced. Fast growth time, arguably the most powerful hatchling stage.

Juvi Utahs in legacy were as fast as baby Utahs here, and they had less stamina, I don't know who had the idea to make baby Utahs here more competitive than juvi Utahs in legacy... make them slower, make them have less endurance 1 of these 2 maybe both need to happen. The Utah used to be fairly competitive, now it is able to take on almost everything, they're faster, stronger, have massive bleed, no mud, and it requires little to no skill to play

[sleek kindle]

Remove Dieno from Utah diet and replace it with deer, Deino is a better diet for a Cera when it come into the game due to adult utahs being typically out weighed by small deino's, also make chicken give more food cause its a tease right now

[sinful drum]

Just died from starvation as a deino. I was going above an below 1% food from eating the odd lack of fish, the amount has improved but still needs work. Something needs to change soon with the water ways and diet for deinos too or to get other dinos drinking in different areas, because most dinos drink from the shallows so my diet consists of about 95% fish, maybe make food last longer for now. I caught about 4 Utahs over 2 weeks and even the adults are snacks. If deino is to continued to be played this needs to be a priority.

[rare shard]

I'm really glad we nerfed birds because all I heard before was how OP they were, now we can't even double ambush a baby it feels like we're in a better place for balance. Seriously undo this rubbish.

[rough musk]

Nerf the carno bite and headbutt, it 2 hit me as a 50% deino somehow. which is completely unbalanced.

[twin breach]

Idea for pounce/bucking. Imagine u would be able to pounce a target but wouldn't be able to deal dmg until u start clicking RMB which would start playing a biting and slashing animation, bucking drains way less stamina when u don't press RMB as the pouncer. You do lose some stamina tho but not a lot (maybe slightly less than sprinting) since u are basically locked to the target with 2 hooked claws and flexible arms for extra grip. A player that would just spam buck would be a nice target for other pack members to get a bite on. A utah that would just spam RMB would fall to the ground in no time (if the target bucks) and a target that just spam bucks would first of all, as mentioned above be bitten by an other packmate and wouldn't deal significant stamina dmg to its foes. A utah can cancel its "attack" but that would leave it with a 2s cd to do so again. So u kind of have to work as a pack, applying pressure to the target in any way, VERY quickly with no room for hesitation or mistakes, to be able to deal significant bleed dmg. With this u could create big mindgames and increase the skill floor and skill ceiling for both sides while making both of the mechanics WAY MORE enjoyable for both sides. Current bucking system is fine as it is but some slight changes could make it much more fun instead of it being "me press E utah fall" or "me hit pounce target don't know how to buck, target ded". Might not be necessary for now but would be a great addition for the close future imo.

[trail ocean]

Didn't know there was slow mode so this is the rest from #general-feedback

• I know the stomach is mostly empty to make room for nutrients, but for carnis, it needs to be higher because of the starvation thing I said above. Make it at least 50% so we have a chance.
• Smell is basically useless for both hervis and carnis now. I can only smell something when I'm like 10 feet away from it. I rely on sight almost exclusively, smell only being good for direction. I wish there was more of a tracking system where you can track things long distance like in the game Wolf Quest. Or dead bodies give off a strong scent. Right now it's just running around randomly hoping to get lucky.
  Honestly right now Evrima seems more like a game of luck than anything else, where you only succeed if you happen upon rare AI or you're taken in by a pack/herd. It's just not all that fun right now.

[finite sapphire]

Something I came across today: Attacks from pteranadon, no matter its size, can prevent any other creature from wallowing and stop it. This is incredibly unbalanced when used by mixpackers, such as today with a pack of utahs using pteras to keep stegos from wallowing to bleed them out. In the future with even larger creatures in the game, this would be an even larger problem if hatchlings and pteras an apex would likely barely even be able to see couldn't wallow.

Suggested change: If something is too far below another creature's weight, they can continue wallow even if being attacked. Something that weighs only a few kilos shouldn't be able to stop something that's several tons.

[rocky ember]

buff deino or make the rivers deeper and wider beacuse now the gameplay of deino is just spend 5 hours for killing other deinos or fishes and if u don't want do it u will starve

[pastel shell]

If the rivers are going to stay so small. Deino needs 3x the amount of oxygen it currently has and way lower food drain seeing as crocs only need to eat 3 or 4 times a month

[lavish tundra]

(part2)

Pachy
So the new member of our roster is definitely the most satisfying playable yet (for me atleast). I had a blast while playing it straight for 3-4 days and while it's definitely more balanced than it was on the QA branch, there is a few changes that still need to happen to not be overpowered. First of all, in my opinion as an Adult Pachy, you have literally nothing to fear right now. Let me explain why.

( I will list all the dinosaurs that could actually harm a Pachy)

Stego : Obvious, no threat because it could never catch you

Deino : It's a bit generic and works with all the playables (so that includes Pachy). Drink at shallows, you will never die from a Deino

Tenonto : While obviously Tenonto can't catch you, you can get into a situation where you need to face off against one. It can kill you with one tail slam ( due to either DMG (locational) or just because you are stunned and tail slam spam),but still. That's never gonna happen, Pachy bonk cancels every attacks because of the staggering. You will cancel the Tenonto tail slam (which most will use) every time. You have to be amateur/really unlucky/server issue to die from a Tenonto.

Utah: Utahraptor has little to zero chance against a Pachy in 1v1. I would say the minimum amount of Utahraptor needed to have an actual decent chance to kill a not dumbass pachy is around 3. Bleed is dangerous, their raw dmg, not really. Simply I never had to worry about Utahs even as a Lone Pachy only if it was an actual real big pack(5+ members). Pachy biggest weakness is bleed, pounce could be the perfect weapon against Pachy, but it's really hard to land it and Pachy can bonk you even mid pounce. I would say 8 times out of 10 using Pounce against the bonehead is a death sentence.

Carnotaurus : While Carno will kill a Pachy easily if it can land a Ram, in practice it simply won't happen, or atleast very rarely. It is really easy to dodge Carno's charge, even if you only notice it in the last second. Pachy can also rekt a Carno in 1v1, or can run away after landing one good bonk. Leg break = Dead Carno, simply can't run away, you can bonk it to death. Head injury nerfs the carno's/Utah damage so much, that you can afford to make atleast 4-8 mistakes without dying. I don't even want to explain what happens to a Carno if there are 2 Pachies

Pachy has a really small window when it's vulnerable, and that is when it misses the bonk, and it's in the recovery animation, which itself is already a really small window, but it's alt attack being this fast and can also knockdown targets, makes that window almost impossible to nail.

Suggestion : Remove the knockdown effect from Pachy's ALT ATTACK and Nerf the head injury debuff.

These are not extremely hard nerfs and would definitely not make Pachy unviable. It would be still really strong, but Utahs would have the actual window that was probably planned, and it won't be able to facetank a Carno because of the head injury.

[onyx granite]

buff body fracture, maybe make it deal self harm but very little dmg bcuz effecting the stam even more than it does now which imo could be slightly more, not for pounce just normal sprint but should def take more for carno charge. It doesnt feel that good rn tbh. BTW by slightly more i dont mean u can get ran down. and self harm i mean like -5% hp for every bite

[hazy zinc]

Day 8,634 of wondering why juvenile carnos are faster than the adults. Carno is supposed to be the fastest animal in the game, right? Makes it sort of confusing how carno starts slow, then gets fast as a subadult, and then loses speed when it reaches full adult.

[coral plume]

teno tail slam seems slightly too strong, the fact it can kill a full adult pachy in 2 tail slams doesnt seem balanced

[mint marten]

Personally i already seeing this feed back being a whip lash just cause of how childish the community is, But personal opinion pachy needs to be nerfed the dmg it outputs towards a utah seems kinda normal but when a carno and they completely get destroyed by one pachy cuz you get blinded it's BS, We have no carnivore AT ALL IN GAME that can physically take down stego or pachy is bull. WOW a deino.. .that dehydrates within 5 mins of sitting on land SO COOL. Talk about useless, Like the main thing i am trying to point out is the fact you usually got like 5 pachys in a group and most the time a lone utah or 2 carnos... will never be enough to compete against a stego or 5 pachys... cuz all pachys gotta do is head butt you once and you are literally crippled or blind AF or you get knocked down.. like dang i wish we had a carnivore that used 0 skill to kill anyone.. like all i am saying devs you guys add these OP herbs and no carnivores to keep it balanced at this point just add a trike and have it destroy the balance oh wait it already is.. The people that wanna come at me in discussion claiming this is balanced or "just get good" you are obviously a kid that has nothing to do all day and the only profession you got is sitting in a chair to gain enough skill to solo a pachy or stego as utah. Like People with lives can't come be a "carnivore and enjoy it " like no you come play utah while you get chased down for miles by 5 pachys for no reason, oh ik why CAUSE THEIR OP and majority of the players know being an adult pachy with the fracture system you will destroy 2 utahs by yourself... so one lil utah is nothing but a joke even 2 is laughable to an adult pachy. deino well.. it can't even go hunt anything on land cuz dehydration YA YA "its meant to ambush" Like then give it proper damn OXYGEN its like oh you been underwater 2 mins? time to breathe.

[slim rapids]

There is no relyable threat to stegos.
Utah: Could take 1 stego down with a full pack but they will probably loose 2 - 4 cause they most likely get one shot with each tail swing and the stego has enough stamina and HP to tank their pounce.
Carno: once again stego can tank it and will probably put a tailspike in the carnos head if they try to go for a headbut charge
deino: can't drag them, gets out damaged by the tailspikes.
ptera: in theory, yes, but it would take an absurd amount of time.
any and all herbivores: why would they? yes players could but its not their role.

Proposal: until a predator that can take on the stego in a normal matchup, either nerf their tail dmg so deinos can punish them at the water ( since deinos are limited by their thirst and stamina on land), massivly increase their stamina cost for tail swings, or increase the tail swing cooldown, meaning, make the window of opportunity bigger before he can swing again.
those things would only be a change of numbers and thus easier to control.
alternativly, change the reach of the tail so he can hit in front of him anymore.

(its btw very stupid that a deino that is beneath the stego, still gets hit in the head by the tail, even if the head is between the fronlegs of the stego, simply makes no sense imo)

[cloud acorn]

Reduce Teno group limit, 8 Tenos in a single group is insanity.

[lavish tundra]

Make it so getting hit in the tail doesn't stun you. 👌

[arctic orbit]

Hmm how about this, Buff Ptera when nesting comes into play. Increase it's bite force to 20 or 25. Make hatchlings , juvies and eggs (if you can even interact with them like by picking them up) apart of their diet as well.

[cloud acorn]

Add Pteranodon to Utah's diet. It's the carnivore most capable of taking them down because it can jump on rocks after them and jump up to catch them if they fly too close to the ground. If having Deinosuchus on its diet makes sense there's no reason to not have Pteranodon.

[lavish tundra]

So, after doing some testing and overall actual hunting in normal survival as a Utah I have noticed something that really bugs me, and from what I heard of friends as well.
The thing that is quite annoying with a Utah is that your ambush really doesn't do much in the slightest bit.

The main issue is with animals resting and then getting pounced. Since getting pounced while resting basically makes them instantly stand up without a prior animation a prey item can then simply just buck the Utah off like nothing happened or as if the Utah jumped on it even when the prey was aware of the Utah. This makes ambushing animal with a pounce rather useless since nothing changes as they can immediately just buck you off like nothing happened.

The solutuion:
It's really easy. Animals that are resting and got pounced, need to get up first before they can buck. If they get pounced while resting because they weren't wary enough and didn't keep their surroundings in check, that is their fault, not the Utahs. Why should the Utah get punished for doing everything right while the prey gets to kill the Utahs stam when they were the ones who got ambushed while they were chilling and not keeping their surroundings in check

[deft cove]

this food situation needs to be resolved ASAP

[jaunty elm]

Pachy at the moment is too strong and overtuned and there needs to be something done about its kit, the core problems are:

1. You DONT need to wind up the charge to do full damage, you can just tap it and it will have the exact same effect, the attack comes out so fast to the point where there is NO time to react at all.

2. ALT bite is extremely spam able and efficient, i've bodied utahs with 1 charge + ALT bite combo, there's literally nothing they can do and they are dead before they can even get up.

3. With multiple pachies, it is possible to stunlock a Carno and kill it if you coordinate your timings with other herd members with the charge.

I propose the following solution:

Charge:

1. Make the charge do next to no fracture and no stun for the tap charges, but still do consistent enough damage; that way a pachy cant just press RMB once and insta kill a utah or something of similar weight.

2. Make the charge velocity scale with how far you have held down the button; the longer you hold it down, the further you go.

3. Make the charge's fracture damage velocity dependant, if you want to do more damage to something (say a carno) you can hold down the button to do significantly more fracture damage, i dont like the idea of increasing base damage since we would end up with pachy on mechanics test all over again.

4. Have a timer for stunned creatures so they can't be stunlocked, maybe like two or three seconds so there is still counterplay available to the attacked creature should they deal with pachies who are incredibly persistant.

5. Add a noise effect so you have an audio que when a pachy is winding up its charge, similar to carno charge; sneaking up on people and bonking them is hilariously unbalanced.

ALT Bite:

1. Remove stun on the ALT bite, it should not knock down a Utah or stun a Carno, Increase its base damage and keep its fracture the same.

2. Increase it's Stamina cost

Interested to see what you guys think.

[cloud acorn]

As everyone can see, Pachy is proving itself to be quite overtuned and unfair to play against for every carnivore in the game. I propose a nerf so it is turned into a fleeing herbivore that can't kill anything above its size range and instead runs away from Carnos even when it outnumbers them. As we all know, the most fun type of gameplay in running away from something you outnumber 8 to 1, not killing them. Make it so a Carno is immune to all attacks from a Pachy once leg fractured to inforce the dinosaur's play style of running away from things it should clearly be able to kill. As an end result of these changes, watch Pachy become a dinosaur played by 5 people total because you got rid of everything that was fun about it and made it capable of only killing one dinosaur out of the 9 dinosaur roster and that is Utah, IF you get lucky enough to get a leg fracture on it, otherwise a Utah should still be able to run away just fine after getting rammed by a fully charged hit.

[faint delta]

Would it be possible to show a Carni/Herbi ratio in each server as you hop on? I feel like that would mitigate a lot of overpopulation, or at least the information would be helpful to see regardless. That way players could either ignore it or help balance the diet pool by their own discretion. Kinda like the trolley principle: you might not get anything out of it, but it feels good to do something nice.

[next silo]

I was playing pachy and I noticed how easy it is to dodge carno ram, I mean you can hear it miles away with that 'charge' sound effect while its footsteps thumping to you. To be honest, I have 0 idea on how to fix this, but maybe make the reward a little better, I feel this should do more damage, think of a nearly 2 ton car just ramming you, surely you get a couple broken bones.

[thick ether]

Clearly whenever a CC heavy animal comes in, there are tons of complaints about how it can just combo people to death, people complain until the animal is nerfed and when it gets that nerf it usually becomes fodder until it is buffed again. Pesronally I'd suggest just adding diminishing returns as a baseline mechanic for CC abilities rather than nerfing these animals directly. For those who don't know what diminishing returns are, think of the way jump worked in legacy. Jumping regularly didn't cost much stam, however when you spammed it, it would cost more stam each time. In this case, if you are barraged by a CCing attack (pachy's alt bite) you will no longer be able to get locked in a CC as you'd build a momentary resistance and then immunity to it, this resistance would reset after several seconds. I think this system would help avoid some balance issues for future brawlers and ambushers who utilize CC like carno, pachy and teno do.

[gusty berry]

Perhaps also add a Sound that indicates the Pachies charge up Attack , similar to the Carnos Charge and Utah pounce.

[lavish tundra]

So, alot of people complain about the Deino vs Stego match up. This is not a: "Nerf Stego!" or "Buff Deino", but instead a solution to stop Stegos from doing quite the stupid actions with very little consequences.

Right now a Stego can, quite literally, go into water after a Deino and swim after him and start biting the crap out of them. And often they still have ENOUGH time to get back on land and then run away from the Deino even after being bitten multiple times in the head.

Something to prevent Stegos from doing this:
I feel like if a Stegosaurus decides to chase after a Deinosuchus in water and swim after them then the Deino should be able to grab the Stego and drown them. Mind you, what I mean by this is that the Deino should be able to only grab the stego while it is swimming
This shouldn't/wouldn't encourage Deinos to go on and actively try to hunt Stegos on land or furthermore, but it should/would encourage a Stego not to chase the Deino into the water, swim after him and then keep attacking the Deino.

[sacred vale]

Stuns need lots of work to them

Currently we have two main stun types: knockdowns and staggers

Knockdowns right now are...passable. They only really happen when one animal heavily outclasses the other and/or is using a hard to land attack except for pachy. Should generally leave more counterplay for the player knocked on their ass

staggers need changing since right now, they completely remove player action;no attacking or moving of any kind. This is not a fun gameplay experience nor is it balanced, and it’s becoming more and more prevalent

Add other forms of stuns that have more counterplay and are more balanced, for example...

parrys: cancel/take priority over incoming attacks and stop the target from attacking for a moment

Slows: significantly slow down turning speed and slow down movement speed by quite a bit for a moment

other various stuns can do varied things against movement and mobility, but its important they dont totally immobilize unless it follows the knockdown rule posted above. Current staggers can stay but they should be very uncommon, moreso acting like knockdown lite™️ than anything else, where the purpose is the same as knockdown but not quite as powerful, still uncommon

TLDR total immobilization of movement and attacks on half the rosters kit is annoying and unbalanced, stuns and cc should be less extreme

[restive yoke]

Deino feels really bad. Rivers feel very shallow and lakes have so many shallow areas that you can’t ambush anything.

Stegosaurus is also way to comfortable near waters edge. They shoukd not feel safe enough to just sit at the edge of water and spam tail swipe.

Deino should specialize in ambushing.. but I have found it nearly impossible to ambush anything because people are obviously going to drink from shallow pools and stego just doesn’t give af about Deino.

[fierce shale]

Give Carno a running Alt-Bite that can be used from it's charge. This would provide a much needed tool for it to keep pressure on animals it's chasing while not making it any better in a standing brawl.

[royal kelp]

Please either increase the amount of food Carno gets from eating smaller dinos like Pachy and Utah, or decrease Carnos food drain overall, it just simply cannot realisticly surive off of small game alone, the only reason you can right now, is because the Central Pond is filled to the brim with Players, it would starve off of small games if it was roaming around the map, it is suppost to be a small game hunter anyway

[hazy zinc]

Utah could use a nice weight buff up to 500kg. It could use the extra help in the pachy matchup where it is incredibly outclassed.

[muted leaf]

Lower food drain on dieno or something like idk maybe removing that entire patch of shallows and giving us a way to the new fun center lake where everyone is safe because as it stands right now, this update was great for everyone BUT crocs. I thought the diet system would help fix the cannibalism issue but now you guys are basically just encouraging it, since there’s no risk to taking a drink ever if you just camp the large and very safe water sources. There should always be a risk, that’s what I thought Deino was supposed to exist for.

[quartz nova]

I think that teno and Carno should give deino more as a full grown adult teno body will only feed deino up to about 20% hunger with about 30% diet and Carno only gives about 30% hunger and 30% diet

[next silo]

make utah not be able to pounce the head of a dino please. its unrealistic and annoying.

[cloud acorn]

Make body fractures actually do something, they're quite literally useless currently. The extra little stam drain is impossible to even notice.

[mighty ermine]

My main complaint about this game right now has to be the pitiful amount of food bodies give you. In the patch notes it’s said to increase contesting, but with the methods of survival players use now- this is the ecosystem:

-everyone gathers at oasis in attempt to find food, even herbivores
-every carnivore is starving or on the brink of it
-carnivores attempt to find food at the only viable location on the map, manage to kill something
-large deino packs at oasis steal every body
-everyone’s still starving, including the deinos

This increased “competition” isn’t working in the way I believe it was intended. Rather than making the game more interesting, it’s just flat out frustrating. You can’t keep yourself fed no matter what you do because of the way players are dispersed (or rather gathered) at this time. Not to mention- our food drain is IMMENSELY fast for how little food bodies provide. Perhaps if the hunger decay rate was decreased, you’d be able to finish a hunt and eat a body before losing 30% more hunger. Bodies should be giving more food at least until you’re able to kill something as a carno or utah without having your meal be taken before you can catch a single bite. This does make the game harder, but again it’s not challenging- just frustrating. Would like to see a fix for this issue.

[tardy dawn]

Remove Oasis, it's just a cesspool of mixpacking. Not to mention that a Carno will most likely starve to death if he doesn't visit Oasis every 10 mins.
Oasis does nothing for the 'survival' aspect of the game, it just hurts the server health.

How about instead, there were several small ponds scattered around the map (could be in neat points of interest) that would drain as dinosaurs drank from them and replenished when it rained. (I know rain has yet to be added). This would make it so players were encouraged to roam the map in search of water if they were too scared of crocs in the river but would also make them fight over the small puddles of water.
When nesting is added, it'll only be a matter of time before a nest is camped by a Deinosuchus because nests need to be near a water source. If Oasis stays when nesting is added you know where all the nests are gonna be.

The V3 map is good because points of interest are everywhere around the map so anywhere you go you'll likely find players (and bodies of water). EVRIMA currently lacks that, all it has is Oasis.

[jaunty elm]

Devs are making mistakes they should've learnt from previously, remember party pond on thenyaw? Like this guy says, remove oasis or bring back the original map cause this map atm is dogshit.

[lean moat]

Agree to add - this can really ruin combat it makes no thematic sense it comes across as an exploit, the only viable way to beat it as a Carno is to counter exploit on high elevation to bug out pounce as they can still face pounce a Carno charge.

[vapid knot]

Hypsilodon double jump can make him more squishy to search somewhere to rest safely

[still crescent]

Hashtag remove Oasis!!!! It is so obvious, it is kinda silly.

[merry hare]

There isn't anything too wrong with diets. but it could've been done better. Take stego, its diet says it has plants in jungle, plains, and all land biomes.... so basically 99% of the map. but wait, the plants aren't actually spread out evenly in those biomes. instead, they are in very specific parts of plains and jungle. A player that didn't even look at where the plants were "located" would have the same chance of finding them as a person who looked. this also made it so there is no reason to go anywhere except oasis. so instead of diets making it so dinos had to travel to find their plants, they just spawn south and walk around oasis to get them.

either fix the plant spawners so they are spread out evenly across the biomes they say they are in. or tell the player a more specific location of where they are at.

and please make a reason to go anywhere except for south and maybe south east.

[dry pawn]

In the future when diets are improved upon some dinos should have to cross rivers to get to their food so that Deinos can get some easy food.

[modest glacier]

Speaking of diets and spreading out, is it possible for the preferred vegetation to be in specific places that shift over time? Like how elephants and antelope travel to traditional feeding grounds
Just a random idea, a Longshot I guess

[sleek kindle]

Can we increase deino air supply from 5 mins to 8. A modern day croc can hold its breath to up to an 15 mins while moving or up to 8 hours if unmoving in cold water. A Pre Historic croc thats up to 8 times larger and 2.2 times longer than the Avg size of a Saltwater croc should be able to hold its breath longer than 5 mins

[minor kelp]

Dryos and pteras are still spectators and boring. Please consider making them able to hunt/fight juvies again. Its the only fun thing they used to do. I dont enjoy growing a dinosaur for 40 minutes to do nothing.

[silent flume]

My issues.

1. AI right now seems non-existent. Unless you log on right after a server restart, you're probably not going to find an AI. As a young utah/carno, you're better off joining the battle royal around the oasis pond and hoping to group or score some other juveniles/unfinished kills.

2. Hunger goes down too quick even when you score a meal. This's lead to players haunting that one area and not utilizing the map.

3. Personally, I'd like to see carno's damage up'd a wee bit. It feels too easy to get cheesed by a patchy or annihilated by packs. Even a solo patchy can put a hurtin' on you. Frankly, I'm not scared of them when on a raptor.

That said, utah with a pack is great, and Deino is a fun experience. It's heart-pounding to not know if you're coming up on a predator/cannibal tribe of your own kind while in the rivers. Deinos, however, could use more underwater time.

[quartz nova]

I believe that more hotspots should be added like Utah rock from update 2 mossy from update 2 but my main thing is that more hotspots should be added so everyone isn’t gathered around oasis

[novel eagle]

utah stam regen faster when walking, almost impossible to regen anything when youre being chased by a teno who has almost unlimited stam and can get to you by the time you sit down to regen or pachy because it can almost outrun you.

[mortal musk]

Give teno a crouch. If a teno is spotted by two or more carnos and is alone there is little hope for surviving. Crouch could give it an option for sneaking away.

[strange mauve]

Create depuff mechanic which punishes body guarding from Herbivores, allowing Carnivores to eat bodies and corpses after a hunt. Current lack of said mechanic allows herbivores to deny food in an extreme fashion. This creates a bad game experience for carnivore players involved after a fair kill or wondering up on a dead body for a meal. While good sport and fun pvp is a great part of The Isle, the lack of any punishment for herbivores body guarding promotes an unnatural gameplay. For a game that does a fantastic job so far of trying to be realistic (for the most part) this seems like an issue. Some ideas of this mechanic could be like adding a "fear" or "hysteria" meter for Herbies when hanging around rotting corpses for too long. As time progresses it fills and after being full the dino might go hysterical and the player loses all control while the dino runs around aimlessly for a short time. Another idea could be to give damage/health buffs to carnos near corpses (especially ones they have killed themselves). While at the same time nerfing the damage/health of herbivores that are near corpses, and again only for extended period of time around the bodies. This will give the carnivore players a reward for a kill or finding food while deterring herbivore body guarding in a healthy way. Currently the system makes body guarding a very efficient way to find a fight but creates a one sided experience for players.

[whole gorge]

Adding to this. Maybe make it so when your "near corpse for too long" debuff kicks in, your stamina begins to slowly drain.
This way herbivore players would not complain that their dino became AI controlled and killed itself, and it would allow them some time to realise that they're near a corpse and should move away, when they notice their stamina bar slowing decreasing.

[sweet rivet]

Maybe make so herbis just feel and hear their heartbeat and vision going slightly darker to show that their dino is scared of seeing something dead causing them to move away since a player wouldnt want to stay with all that for too long out of sheer annoyance

[timid plank]

What is the isle feeding the AI animals these days. Why is a whole ass goat giving Carno minimum 13% food. The small game hunter doesn't even get enough food from small prey to be considered a small game hunter. The food value should be altered positively just like what was done with melons/coconuts. All ai value should be changed. Ptera and baby Utah get almost no food from a frog...Why!? You don't have to change the hunger decay. Just the value of how much food you get from smaller creatures and AI is all.

[true gate]

Tenos being able to kill any dino if they land just one successful tail attack needs fixing. After one successful tail attack comes 3 or 4 more and that's it, there's no chance for the stunned dino to retaliate, which is the same as having, for example, Utahs immediately killing the dino they are attacking if they land just one pounce.

[lavish tundra]

Here is a small list of adjustments that I believe would balance pachy a bit.
1. A WINDUP TIME
Right now pachy is essentially able to go from 0-100 at a click of a button which doesn't quite make sense to me when you have dinos like carno that need to reach their full speed in order to even activate their special ability or utah that requires a slow moving or stationary target in order to pull off a good pounce due to it's windup animation. My solution would be to give some parameters which would affect the potency of it's head ram.
*- Require pachy to HOLD down RMB to charge its ram ability rather than simply tapping it.

• Have pachy require a minimum of 50% charged in order to stagger similarly sized dinos and knock down smaller ones.
• Have pachy require a charge of 100% in order to knock down similarly sized dinos and stagger bigger ones such as carno and tenonto.*
  2. REMOVE ALT ATTACK STUNS/KNOCK DOWNS
  With how fast pachy can do a 180 and how spammable it is, it makes it easy to stack several fractures at a few clicks of a button. Leaving most predators crippled enough to be unable to escape any encounter with a blood hungry pachy. Simply removing it would keep you from laying there helplessly meanwhile you are inflicted with fractures by the time you get up.

[merry hare]

since herbivores cant sniff foot prints, can you let us sniff while moving. no reason to not.

[candid sorrel]

I think oasis is a fine addition if it didn't have the shallow parts its a high risk high reward for deinos to cross in the open to have a pond and if the shallows were removed it would be a lot easier for deinos to punish herbis being careless and carnis alike and force them to move else were

[quasi kiln]

there really has to be something done with either stegos or body camping herbis, as a deino you cant do anything to a stego that is camping a body you found and especially when in the new oasis. i have had stegos literally camp me for hours at a time because they were taking turns camping the bodies, it isnt fun and annoying that i cant do anything to those stegos cause they can just face tank my bites while they deal 10% of my hp in a single swipe

[tall moth]

a lot of people have mentioned wanting a mechanic to prevent body camping herbis through various health/damage debuffs or annoying visual cues. a more realistic mechanic, and less abuseable (hopefully) would be to give herbis that stick around dead, rotting bodies, the same debuff you get when you eat too much: nausea/sickness

in the future, once more rotting mechanics are added, could even add this debuff to certain carnis that only eat fresh kills -- just to help out scavengers maybe?

[flint epoch]

Remove the shallow parts in oasis or add rivers to get to oasis, its frustrating playing as deino and not being able to see anything but other deinos for hours

[versed dew]

More cooldown on tenontosaurus tail attack.

[novel eagle]

Nerf pachy:
-Reduce their speed, they shouldn't be able to keep up with fast dinos.
-Make the effect not a straight knockdown every time, make it a chance based mechanic, when you get hit currently, you get knocked out for like 3-5 seconds where you're defenseless and they just stand next to your body and bite you or hit you again to death.
-Make it so you can hear their footsteps, they shouldnt be somehow able to ninja up to a group within 3 seconds and knock you out and kill you

If you haven't realized yet, or you're oblivious, pachy has pretty much become the apex of the game because they are so broken and a pair of them can kill anything (besides maybe a adult denio) with ease. Which is literally the dumbest thing ive seen, people aren't wanting to play pachy for the experience, they're playing it to win because its so easy to win a fight. Pachys should be a defensive dino, not an aggressive apex dino.

[scenic pivot]

Herbivores body camping is a huge issue, and adding a mechanic to punish them doing it seems like a good way to go to me.
Make herbivores vomit if they are within the vicinity of a stationary corpse for too long, and make them unable to eat until they leave the radius and a small amount of time has passed. Vomiting on an herbivore is currently not all that detrimental; it's fairly easy to find at least two of their diet needs, and the buffs from losing perfect/great/good diet don't fall off immediately. This wouldn't force them to back down from a fight and have to flee immediately, but it would encourage them to go off and restore their meters.
Have a fallen corpse emit a smell after a set amount of time, and have that time reset if the body is picked up and dropped again, or dragged and dropped. This would also allow for counter play if a carnivore tries to drag a body, and would prevent griefing by carnivores carrying small bodies around, following herds and making them vomit. Once nesting is implemented, there would have to be an exception to herbivores that are on their own nests from suffering this debuff, or they wouldn't be able to reasonably defend their nests for extended amounts of time. I propose that you're only exempt from the debuff while at your own nest to avoid abuse. I know nesting grounds are still in the works, so this would need tweaking around implementation.
It seems to me that The Isle is going for a realistic approach to dinosaur lifestyle, and there's nothing realistic about animals guarding their dead. Dead bodies attract dead bodies. In nature, when one of the group dies, some creatures like elephants take time to mourn, then promptly move on, most don't really bat an eye. Body guarding has created a highly toxic gameplay environment, one where you're punished even after you technically win. It isn't feasible to expect players to be able to kill off whole herds in order to get a meal, so something needs to be done about this issue.

[finite sapphire]

Herbivore body guarding mechanic:
It's come up a lot lately but I don't think that putting in a mechanic to avoid this will be a good idea for the game, especially when nesting is implemented, for a few reasons:

-Herbivores cannot move bodies. If there is a body in or around their nest, the herbivore wont be able to do anything about this and if a system like what is suggested gives debuffs for herbivores hanging around bodies, it will unfairly give these out punishing herbivores for defending their nests.
-There would be no mechanic to do the same to carnivores who don't need the food, solely punishing one faction when carnivores also typically body guard and use bodies as bait to get other prey. Putting in a mechanic to punish carnivores very much doing the same thing would be ridiculous too.
-Certain areas of the map are the only spots for herbivores to get the foods they need. If there are bodies on top of their food, they'll have to trade filling their diet for debuffs, making the experience much worse overall.
-Balancing such a thing would likely be a nightmare. Would one body give out one strong debuff, would many small bodies give many tiny stacking debuffs? What about the cases of bodies you can't actually see or glitched bodies that don't despawn?
-Especially after fighting utahs, there are many cases where herbivores have to sit and heal. They shouldn't be punished from stopping to heal a bit or wallow just because there's a body nearby, especially if there are no other players around.
-Herbivore players also move on relatively quickly. While body guarding is a pain in the ass, eventually herbies do need food and water themselves and will back off a body to go eat and drink. Even if they run back in, all carnivores can go and grab a piece of meat and run off again to eat if they're smart about it.

[shadow flume]

Buff carnivores in general.
There is too little ai and the map is so big that it is hard to find players who you can hunt, Even if you find them it is hard to catch them because of the dense foilige. Herbivore are op, 6 carnos vs 3 tenos should not be super hard fight to win, if anything gets hit by a tail slam they are stuck and the teno can spam it making it a almost guarantied kill for the teno. Stegos have too much health for any group of Carnivores to hunt along with the fact that they oneshot or near oneshot all land carnivores. Packys are just too strong, they can break your leg if you are a carno and they are hard to catch and can easily kill uthas.

Make it so that all Carnivores lose less food, eat faster, have more health, do more dmg. Also make it so that ai actually spawns, allow servers to have 200 players because the map is way to small for just 100. Debuff Tenos tail slam [so that it isnt spammable] and also make the tail slam take more stamina. Allow Community run servers because in a game like this there needs to be some rules.

Finaly, give the petra back their 25 dmg pecks. If they crash near anything bigger than a 10% utha they are dead. if a baby wants to hide then they could go into a forest and boom, magically disappeared

[lavish tundra]

Just a few things I want changed
1): give Carno some of its stamina back it’s too little, I don’t want however much we had before the nerf but enough so it feels like you don’t have to stop every 10 seconds would be nice

2): Lower the damage on pachys Alt attack and Headbutt. Keep fractures the same however so it’s not simply killing you

3):Ffs nerf stego to where it isn’t pain to deal with, it has zero predators rn besides packs of Utah which are opportunistic. Lower its HP and Tail Jab damage

[finite sapphire]

Stego
Played through stego from hatchling to adult a few times over the past week on a few servers, and as much as I love steg, it's still incredibly unbalanced with the current roster in ways I don't think adding other animals will be able to fix for a long while, at least until we get creatures like the upper mid tiers (which i imagine wont be for a long while)

-Stegos in a full herd are effectively invulnerable. Just 3 adults can fight off anything in the game aside from the most ridiculous overpacking scenarios like 20 utahs as often happens on NA1 and 2, and even then, it takes an absurd amount of time to kill a single one.
-You can still kill utahs successfully with a tail swing from a surprising distance, even if they're pouncing. Many times it looks like the swing isn't going to hit visually, but does regardless, instantly killing the utah.
-If you play it right, there's absolutely no danger to you, because even a single hit from a stego is enough to make most carnivores back off from that alone. If they don't back off, they're easily killed by a second or third hit.
-Juvie stego is really strong for its size, dealing a lot more damage than expected. Multiple times I've been able to hit near or fully grown carnos as a juvie steg, still being able to be knocked down by their charge mind you, and nearly kill them. This seems like far too much damage for a juvenile to do, even if its one of the heavier ones.
-Stego when running subadult and beyond is almost impossible to hear from behind for some reason, especially if you come from down hill. It's not only odd, but being less noticable via sound than a carno or even a utah for something that weighs several tons is ridiculous. I'd expect to hear a stego running from at least 4-5 of its body lengths away, its a huge animal.
-Right now, its gameplay is pretty boring. All of its food can be found at center or along the river leading to swamp, the river in particular not a lot of people seem to frequent. You could very easily stick around there and at most see a baby deino until you get to adult and move to center to fight. Its gameplay right now feels much less like survival and more a fighting simulator where you'll win every time.
-Although most of its useful attacks cost a ton of stam, I've yet to actually be in a fight solo where I've run out before killing whatevers attacking me or making them give up and flee. In a group, running out of stam is a non issue with having multiple to defend you as you rest.

Suggestions:
-Lower the damage done by juvie stego significantly. Although they're heavy, they're still young animals and it feels off for them to hit harder than larger animals than them, especially that stego is on the diet of utah.
-Stego needs to be significantly louder and heard from a much larger distance, especially as adult. An adult stego shouldn't be sneaking up on anything.
-Make stego more vulnerable to bleeding out so it has to act more defensively and more cautiously.
-Lower stego's group size, at least until much larger predators are in the game. There's little hope of actually killing a steg in a full herd unless they accidentally kill their own or are just impossibly bad at steg.

[umbral haven]

its been said so many times before but the current diet system is still way too excruciating. so much to the point where it ruins the/my experience. having to travel half way across the map to fill your third nutrient is absolutely ridiculous. especially as a juvie. the diet system almost completely takes away from the horror aspect of the game, and turns it into a virtual dinner duplication. dont get me wrong, the idea that the better youre eating, the stronger you are, is great. but 27 minutes to find a certain plant? when you travel at 0.02 mph? when youre outpopulated by species who feast on your flesh? i feel as if the diet system is almost better suited for carnivores. however, the carnivores are screwed too! i read that the utah diet has deino in it? how is that even doable? and tenontos can completely body carnos.
the entirety of this game's mechanics are just.. the priorities aren't straight. diet systems were never necessary, only implemented to stop afk growths, no? i have a brand new gaming PC that runs other games on ultra graphic settings, but moving 3 feet in evrima causes serious FPS lag. humans were supposed to be released last year, and even tho i know development is slow.. well... granted, i know the game isnt close to finished but... legacy had more things going for it, in my opinion.

[spice lantern]

Baby Carno.
as a baby carno baby utahs can kill you very easily and avoid your attacks very easily, the charge ability can't really be used on a baby utah because of how quick and nimble they are, but with the charge as it is, it is very difficult to hit a baby utah
Baby utahs even though being half the size of a baby carno do alot of damage thus making match ups against baby utahs really difficult to fight.

[quasi kiln]

Food values really need to be tweaked, a deino shouldnt have to eat an entire stego to almost fill its stomach either that or give deino a slower metabolism overall or an ability to slow down its metabolism, oxygen depletion at the cost of speed and maybe growth speed to not abuse it as a baby deino. it really feels like im roleplaying as deviljho from the monster hunter series with my endless hunger

[hollow crane]

Ok So um Teno majorly needs a stam rise and speed rise. To demo I tried to get from 1 side of the dam to the other and Nope could not do it. If fact i felt short very fast Thats like a person jogging for 2 mins then having to stop. If herbs cant out speed carnos then at least let them out stam them other wise they are not playable remember only around 1 in 10 hunts should have a chance of a kill. In honesty i want to be able to have a chase over the dam and turn round at the end and still be able to butt slap an attacker a few times.... (also yes its this laggy with 48 players on.) and yes the feeding system broke on me) Teno also needs a water kick or something as if its ment to be able to live in swamps it needs water defenses
Please see :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6HiEZxHISOE

[fringe siren]

Tenontosaurus is one the fairest dinos in the game right now. It has a great defensive toolkit (unlike the aggressive pachy, which is basically a carnivore at this point), good sprint and trot speeds, as well as a surprising amount of manoeuvrability. I am not quite sure what your clip, which shows you jumping along the dam, is supposed to prove other than the fact that those bumps on the dam are super annoying. Also, what you keep calling lag looks an awful lot like a hardware problem to me.

I am totally with you on improved water capabilities for tenonto though. I've been playing around in the swamps recently, and I was surprised to find out that raptors swim almost as fast as teno, even with the buffed swim speed.

[quasi kiln]

give deino bone break, maybe a smaller chance to break than pachy so it isint broken

[spark galleon]

Instead of cera ore other dino's i would like to see beipiaosaurus. Because of its unique playstile. Hope its going to be released earlier than whats on trello.

[gray bone]

As far as I've seen younger stegos are way to strong for their size, and instead of an outright nerf what about changes to how juvi stego works, along with other juvi herbivores. Juvi stego could be much faster and more nimble than the adults but nerf their damage output. Also for plains dwelling animals there could be a extra 4th diet option for 50% and below (This could scale with what dino we are talking about, a 50% pachy is way weaker than a 50% steg and may need some more time.) This 4th diet option would only be found in the jungles or forest edge and would only fill one nutrient. This would cause safer play but much longer growth times, for stego and other apexes they also could be exempt from this being forced to take risks to grow such a powerful animal. using their agility baby stegos could out turn carnos and try to lose utahs in the brush. they would grow stronger but less speedy and nimble over time, meaning juvi steg could still be viable while receiving a health and damage nerf.

[onyx granite]

nerf pachy tap headbutt dmg, I can see how it can get annoying, and add a diminishing effect like teno tail slam to pachy alt bite, Really annoying when you can get alt bit to death and cant even get up, sometimes I've seen utahs completely unable to recover. Other then that I'm fine with pachy, really easy to take down if you aren't bad at the game and the server isn't crappy. Sick of people trying to get pachy overnerfed lol ALSO FIX HITBOXES.

[subtle gulch]

Utahs need a way to fight back against other utahs that pounce them, as it is right now if a utah pounces you your pretty screwed and if it's full stam and can just hold down left click and thats it, and if we're being realistic if something is pinned down and being attacked theres going to more resistance that some limbs flailing, maybe if you hold e while being pounced it allows you to struggle, doing a little damage to the utah pouncing and draining stam faster

[hazy zinc]

Tenontosaurus eats food very quickly compared to the other dinosaurs. It's pretty nice. Please bring the other dinosaurs up to Tenonto's level. Holding E for 3 minutes straight isn't exactly "immersive."

[quasi kiln]

give the base of the tail its own hitbox, its annoying to get hit on the tail by a pachy and get body broken

[fringe siren]

Could we consider making stego's thagomizer not an instant death for utahs 100% of the time, but that it could inflict a debilitating injury instead, at least sometimes? I'm talking 1%HP left, multiple bone breaks and heavy bleed, so that you are out of that fight for good, but you have a SMALL chance to hobble away from an ongoing confrontation and chill in a bush for 5-10 minutes?

[dry turret]

as much as I love to use the new tracking system carnivores have been given, I feel it has to go, it makes it near impossible for you to escape from a predator, either tone it down or just remove it

[polar salmon]

In counter/alternate suggestion to this:

Improve the new tracking system by having the 'no smell tracking' be a timed effect, You slow down/stop to smell footprints, select them and then for X period of time you can chase them without having to stop, then when this period runs out you have to slow down/stop again to smell and refresh the effect.

Throughout this you will maintain the 'selection' in the sense that it's tracks are differentiated from others by colour. It is just the visibility while on the move that varies. You could then, for balancing, alternate the period of time this effect lasts after smelling either as a whole or perhaps per creature.

Alternatively, you could add alternate ways to temporarily throw off trackers. Having played little herbivore myself I don't know how many creatures can crouch however that itself is a pretty good method. Perhaps you could add a temporary effect after moving into/out of water or mud pits which temporarily masks your tracks after it. (Of-course, not as long as wallowing would).

[wise nexus]

make it so that weight is not equal to health like we had in earlier evrima versions and the last legacy patches

[glass herald]

Pachy knockdown is easily abused, and insanely powerful.
Why even add fractures if it doesn't play to the Pachy's mechanical playstyle?
Pachy playstyle: "Ambush Predator" Ram --> Knockdown --> SPAM SPAM SPAM when the target is on the floor.
Slow down it's alt attack recharge. When a Pachy headbutts, it should be stunned momentarily (More Lag Frames, not a stun animation) It shouldn't be guaranteed 4+ consecutive [MASSIVE DAMAGE] hits because it clicked RMB.
This is the same exact problem with the Teno. Only difference is it's easier on Pachy, so the Teno isn't being played due to this.

KNOCKDOWN NEEDS A REWORK

[jaunty elm]

Herbivore gameplay is too easy, there's no difficulty to it and you're guaranteed a safety net for the following reasons:

• Diets are all at Oasis
• Oasis is an extremely defendable location and with the mud pond you can effectively render bleed a non-factor provided you are in a large herd.
• You can pick up plants and carry them to any location, removing the risk of carnivores completely.
• Your food source is guaranteed. and you just need to know where they are, you don't actually have to work for your food.
• Some foods instantly replenish your diet and hunger (Coconuts and Melon for Pachy) when you grab and eat them whole. The risk is throwing up but you can pretty much mitigate that if you manage your hunger well.
• Stuns (Teno and Pachy) can pretty much win a fight all the time.
• Self sustainability of mega herds (probably will be corrected when diets are more spread out (hopefully)), Though most people run around with one diet when they're at 100% and just manage their hunger.
• Herbivores are significantly overtuned when compared to their carnivore counterparts. (Pachy mainly)
• Stego

You can only die if you go out on your own or if you're caught out. Utah has an unfair and one-sided match up against Tenonto, Pachy and Stego in which it is consistently bodied. Carno is utterly reliant on it's charge to score kills against adult tenontos and pachy and Oasis makes that less viable of an option.

To fix this:

• Add a Counterpart that can actually deal with stego, such as Alberto or possibly something bigger (?)
• Remove Oasis
• Increase dietary upkeep of herbivores so that they cant persist in mega-herds (same as carnivores) and actually promote competition for resources.
• Spread out diets so that herbivores have to migrate instead of playing AFK simulator.
• Increase effectiveness of bleed, There is no way you can die to it unless you are being constantly pursued and cant sit or wallow.

[foggy bolt]

I agree but stegos need to be nerfed as in if they are around x number their atk speed is slowed and dmg is lowered significantly same for pachy. Now for the senior being the only apex if in aa pack bigger than 6 they get dmg buff 1.5x only in having babies or juvies around dmg gets buffed 2x for the fully grown only the 2x dmg buff would be for but the 1st one for all and it would not be that broken if u think about it bc u wouldn't want to hurt another croc and risk killing it or hurting it. Also deinos should have like spino health since it's the biggest thing in evrima, like at least 10k health for the amount of dmg it does

[cedar gate]

increase stamina drain on stego tail swing, theres no way they can swing about 30 times and still be a ok on stam while crocs can only alt bite like 8 times at most

[upbeat crypt]

As someone who's played a Deino recently, it's a pretty boring experience for an 8hr grow time. Players just don't flock to the rivers and swamps anymore, and with just fish to eat, it makes the Deino a dull playable. Fixes I'd consider would be buffing the scent range for water and food for all playables so they can be baited with fish easier, connect ALL bodies of water to one river system, return mudspots to state it was before the latest patch where it was always next to water, and make ai have a thirst meter so they can drink when their thirst is depleted, therefore attracting players to rivers more often.

[slender zealot]

Bring the old carno speed back (turning and others). It was way more fun.

[young path]

just nerf stego finnaly

[clear patio]

The issue to me, is that The Isle is a game about having Herbis hunting down Carnis ^^
End of story.
When i watch Jurassic Park, i see Carnis hunting preys which are Running away.
Whan i play the isle, i see Big boys fleeing lil tanks.

What a joke.

[pseudo mortar]

I feel like the carnivore tracking ability needs to be nerfed. It’s damn near impossible to get away from a carnivore now no matter what you do, and mud pits seem so few and far between

[thick ether]

on that topic of scent, I have a few things to say as well.
carnivores
the new scent tracking is indeed a horror show to deal with, something like carno has no business tracking 5+ minute old tracks through the jungle, I think the tracking system has potential but it's awful to deal with right now. A carno shouldn't be a good tracker, a utah should be a better tracker than a carno, and a rex should be a better tracker than a utah. If predators had varying strengths in this system it could help set apart niches more. Make track visibility vary between predators over time, so that a utah can sniff 5 minute old tracks but a carno can not, and a rex could sniff 10 minute old tracks but a utah can not. Perhaps in the future, even the level of information given by tracks can vary for specialist trackers, such as showing a difference between a healthy or unhealthy animal.
herbivores
there is absolutely no excuse for herbivores to still have to stand still to sniff. Due to the recent scent changes, we have to stand still for even longer in order to actually smell anything at all. It's not engaging gameplay to stop and sniff frequently for food if you dont want to be stagnant once you find anything. The tedious chore that is herbivore sniff makes it even more optimal to just afk as if the current diet situation wasn't already reason enough on its own. You've already reworked the tracks system, so why keep herbivore scent in this awful state that is even worse than it was before? Carnivores can now SPRINT while tracking you, but you still have to stand in place for 20 seconds to find a bush? come on.

side note: let us pull up our compass while we are holding something, it is a bit annoying and unnecessary to have to drop a piece of food, pull up the compass, and then pick it back up before continuing. I can understand if you don't want people sniffing while they have a fat juicy melon or steak in their mouth, but the compass is a different issue.

[sweet rivet]

can you pls nerf the tail hit dmg on utah please?!

[jaunty elm]

I personally like the carnivore tracking ability, though it is overpowered and some things can be changed about it.

Tracks persist for a very long time which makes juvenile gameplay a chore if you're in hotspots or moving through areas. Stealth is not an option when tracks are smelt by a carnivore that has caught wind of your tracks. Either:

• Make it so juveniles cannot be tracked by adults 75% or above (or even above 50%), that way there is the stealth counter play available to them.
• Allow animals to rub scents of plants on them which messes with tracking.

Juvenile v Juvenile combat can go eitherway (unless you're a stego), so thats not much of an issue.

Tracking is difficult in general in dense foliage and is somewhat a required feature given the overall increase of foliage density in EVRIMA, removing it would be detrimental in some cases; say you're a troodon hunting smalls in the jungle, it is virtually impossible to see given the foliage density therefore you're reliant on the tracking feature to score a kill.

[frank inlet]

could you please for love of the god make spawn points random. I died 5 times in row now cuz they are camping near each spawn point

[sweet rivet]

To idea above
Maybe just make juvies tracks appear less often since remember canis will eat anything without ai and juvies are lighter
My own suggestion
Maybe make some of pachy attacks take more stam each time the more they spam it like maybe alt bite or something so they cant go knocking something down only to smack it to death before it can get up. I think this could help its whole Injure the hunter and run away

[lavish tundra]

Designing the carnivores in this game to fulfill their gameplay niches with basic turn radius, speed, and damage is a poor way to optimize them without it being shoddy or cheap on both ends. There should be more special abilities in the tool kit of Carno/Utah that push these playables to more proper designed methods of play. Rather than simply Lmb'ing things to death. Carno fails at being a small game hunter without it being broken. Utah doesn't perform pack hunting as well as it should on average. Carnivores should get better tool kits to overcome their herbivore counterparts by employing these multiple mechanics in tandem to earn kills. That way herbivores don't need to be nerfed because of the poor design of Carnivores, and Carnivores can punch up to larger prey given the right methods and circumstances.

For example:
Carno abilities
Steer- Costs stam at the use of catching nimble agile prey, niche uses in combat. Mainly used for catching prey in short bursts
Tackle(Reworked Charge)- Charge but reworked to be more useable in general situations, mostly staggers, but can be charged up with enough speed to do complete knockdowns. This supports movement for both sides and counters dull stationery targets. Cannot tackle creatures above a certain size range.

Utah abilities
Sickle Slash- Slows targets down while applying bleed, preventing targets from escape or sprinting mid fight. Makes ally's have better ease of use for pounce. Tradeoff being leaving themselves open to counter.
Pounce Latch-Can stop applying the bleed of Pounce attacking, to simply hold on. Braces against buck. This makes bucking require better timing, and makes shaking off well timed pounces harder. Slowly eats stam of both parties. Sprinting/attacking for a certain period disables Latch.

[shy crane]

Dryo could use a bit more stamina, I was full on stam as I was spotted by a utahraptor, ran out but the utah was still hot on my trail, right now utah is faster, stronger and has more stamina it seems

[hazy zinc]

Pachy could use a hefty speed nerf. Why is it faster than tenonto? If the point of playing pachy is to cripple an opponent and then run away, then having the absurd speed + mobility + stun + stupid high damage for its size defeats the entire purpose of the playstyle and makes it offensive rather than defensive. It's a utahraptor on steroids currently.

[wise lark]

please nerf Pachy. He is disgustingly tough to fight even as an adult carno.

[glass herald]

The get-up animations play twice. Sometimes they don't play at all and you just stand there.

Stun and Knockdown need to be fine-tuned to be conducive to the player-experience. When things aren't functioning properly it hurts the experience, and makes what would feel like a pleasant experience, an overly punishing experience when the game's mechanics aren't working as they were intended to.
Same thing goes for your tail reacting to a knockdown in any situation. The Utah pounces through tails, rams and tailslams should function the same. Getting stunned by having your tail hit is bogus, and everyone I've heard from agrees.

I place this in #balance-feedback because it is unclear of whether or not it is intended or not ~ it's so badly functioning that it FEELS like a bug, but at the same time it also feels like a balance oversight.

If the community can't discern the difference between what is a balance issue, and a bug ~ there's a bigger problem.

[tall moth]

in general i think stuns, knockdowns, and any sort of animation-locked combat should be heavily limited in the game, much more than it is now. right now you can just stunlock someone to death without them being able to do anything.

there is no counterplay to being stunned, and it isn't even really realistic. go look at most irl hunts in documentaries -- even if a wolf is literally gored by a bison and tossed 15 feet in the air, it will still attempt to scramble away and prevent further injury (you know.... even with a mortal wound). so what's with all the stuns? it doesn't make pvp more skill-based, nor does it even make it more entertaining for either party. just spamming a button at someone to kill them isn't fun for the stunner, either.

considering the game is all about cost through time investment (hours of growth), it seems like a bad idea to keep bland yet deadly stunlocking in the game -- most people want their time investment to die out at least in a fun, long battle (or a horrible ambush jumpscare), so...

TLDR; reduce stunlocking by adding more counterplay, to help lengthen fights and make them more dynamic

[agile jay]

Heres the thing, my opinion on pachy is its somewhat balanced against everything against utah. Utah doesnt stand a chance with how long the stun delay is. Just decrease the stun delay and all problems get solved. Simple

[onyx granite]

after you guys nerf pachy buff body fracture 🙂

[lavish tundra]

You need to move oasis somewhere that isn’t near a river, and add a few more places like this around the map not just the center area so you have to constantly travel across rivers to go to these hotspots

Nerf stegos healthpool and damage for now until we have stuff like allo and Alberto

Spread diets around the map not just into center and leave it like you did

[jaunty elm]

Diets right now is awful in its implementation partly due to the restrictive nature of the growth and some dinos being unable to fulfill their three diets which makes them uncompetitive compared to those that can.

To rectify this issue, and to promote competition between the species i propose this:

Carnivores:

Carnivores should have a diet that scales with their growth, starting off with small things and working their way up to the stuff they're intended to hunt.

Broadly catagorize your animals into diet classes, classes being defined as:

Small - 0kg to 750kg
Mid - 751kg to 2100kg
Large - 2100kg to 4500kg
Apex - 4501kg to 9000+Kg

Carnivores should get all three nutrients from the stuff they kill however, the amount of nutrition gained from eating it is proportional to the size and weight of the creature compared to your size and weight, the hunger drain should increase proportionally with age, as a baby the food isn't as demanding but as you grow the demand will exponentially increase. This would counter mix-packing between carnivores which is an issue endemic to the game for some time and make the game more engaging and thrilling.

This would also remedy the issue of being locked out of your dietary needs due to lack of availability of that source of diet.

When the gore system is added you can expand upon this further by including marrow, different types of organs and viscera and so on which certain carnivores may prefer.

For a long time i have said that carnivores should be able to hunt anything and everything, and that preferred diets are preferred, not mandatory. You dont see whales, sharks or crocodiles pass up a carcass cause it's not what it usually eats, meat is meat.

Herbivores:

Just spread out their diets, Herbivores are too fucking easy to grow for how strong they are currently, and are guaranteed their food sources which means they have almost always significant advantages over carnivores as a result of diets being poorly implemented.

[slender zealot]

Buff pachy stamina, maybe even 2x. It is just too little. (i meant like decrease amount of stamina loss per headbutt.)

[lavish tundra]

Dryosaurus:
Either a small damage buff to the 20-25 range, or an alternate attack like a moderate kick that does more damage, just give people a reason to play the animal other than the game optimisation being so bad and the mechanics being so buggy that they dont want to risk losing more then 30 minutes of progress. It doesn't matter if its "not the intended playstyle", right now the gameplay style doesn't even work and people would much more likely play it if it were given things to do instead of being given the ability to not instantly die to utahs via mobility, because you can just play Hypsi if you wanna get chased, which is insta growth. No one plays dryo anymore (apart from wanting to softcore escape optimisation) for a reason damnit, and it all started in update 3.75, isn't that a coincidence. Its not even like 20 bite force will ruin anything, half an hour of a utah or carno will still be able to take a dryo very easily
Of course Dryos runaway playstyle should still be addressed because thats the point, but it should still keep SOMETHING
Also the bite hitbox, even people that main dryo dont even know how to time it still

[river orchid]

All ther herbivores are sooo OP

[vast helm]

utah fix. i dont think everyone should be able to use their ability so easily but not the raptor. and for the extended periods of time in comparison to the raptor. when a raptor pounces and the prey even thinks of bucking, raptor loses stam like no ones buisness. yet, carnos can charge multiple times in fights. stego can swing their tail stupid amounts of times. deino can alt bite like a bat outa hell. but a raptor pounces and all they have to do is buck? sounds pretty weak for the amount of bleed it does. balance it.

[idle gale]

copy/pasted from a thing i said in the steam forums: you know, i've been thinking: perhaps the easiest answer to the croc problem is adjusting their hunger rate to match something closer to reality. crocs are not dinos, unlike actual dinos, crocs are cold-blooded. their metabolism is much slower, and they can generally go much longer without eating.

i think in exchange, crocs should get a "solar energy meter" or "body temp meter" to manage. it would decrease over time, and can only be refilled by resting in the daytime.

the effect of this meter would be to regulate the croc's metabolism. in game terms, this would translate to fast movement when full, but fast hunger rate when full. conversely, when low, movement speed is slower, but hunger rate is also slower. when i say "movement speed," im also including attacks, to be clear.

[ocean trout]

so i know a lot of people already expressed their concerns with the packy being to strong. but I'm still gonna cry about it. as a 70% grown raptor I shouldn't get one shot'd by a packy as he's just standing next to me. wasn't moving at all head buts me, head fracture and i die. full health perfect diet, nope means nothing.

[gray bone]

As a pachy main I can safely say, the fucker is busted. Its base stats are fine afaik but it's more the fact it gets zero punishment for alt bite spamming or missing its rams. To remedy this when pachy misses a charge it takes slightly more stamina and causes the pachy to stumble for a sec as it just threw its entire body weight at something and hit nothing. As for alt bite maybe as pachy uses it more and more it starts to suffer stuns and more stam cost. It's also just not fun knowing you really have nothing to fear, teno is nice cause stam is a huge factor but pachy just isn't fun with how forgiving its attacks are to the user.

Also give juvi pachy its animations it's been out for almost a month

[dreamy nacelle]

Can we please get some sort of lighting or return mechanic of splashes or something so Deinos can actually hunt underwater at night? The current lighting seriously makes it nearly impossible to see any fish!! Who can spot the /deino/ in this image let alone the fish i was hunting -

[foggy bolt]

stegos are annoying as shit to deinos y do they have to atk them when they dont bother to atk them

[vagrant rivet]

A possible way to discourage overkilling when Carnivores don't need to, is possibly have it so that if a carnivore is above let's say 70% hunger, it's attack should do a certain amount less damage then if it was below 70% hunger. As of rn, I find carnivores are killing just to kill, and it's hard to gauge how much of the slaughter is necessary.

[rancid badge]

Make young pachy faster. Even faster than fully grown, when let's say about 70% percent

[hazy zinc]

New attack ideas for Carno and Stego

Carno: Directional headswing attack, replacing the current Alt Bite.
Carno's alt bite looks stupid, and that's really all there is to it. It would be much more in character for Carno to receive an attack where he uses his horns in combat. A headswing attack would (at the cost of stamina, of course) allow for carno to mix up its combat style and not have to spam its bite attack constantly. If we want to cement Carno as the bane of anything remotely smaller than it, this attack would fit nicely in its kit, allowing it to either deal a moderate amount of damage, or depending on the opponent's size, swat them away. Note: This attack should be balanced accordingly so that charging is still the optimal strategy for ambushing.

Stego: 180 degree tail swipe that can only be used while sprinting.
Stego suffers from the same issue as carno where it feels incomplete with its current attacks, or lack thereof. Stego could use a new attack where, as it's sprinting, it uses its momentum to swipe its tail 180 degrees, and comes to a dead stop after the move is finished. A high risk high reward move, this would drain a huge sum of stego's stam (between 25% and 33%). If it lands, the damage and bleed are devastating, able to incapacitate or kill even the largest predators. However, this attack should be considered as a last resort, because if it happens to miss, Stego's tiny head is wide open to an attack. Hopefully this could help cement stego as the ultimate glass cannon herbivore, and ensure that it at the very least has a fighting chance once predators like Rex, Giga, and Spino are in the game. Note: This attack should probably be saved for when stego isn't completely busted, and the aforementioned apex carnivores are in the game.

[little pumice]

Please remove Stego for now at least until a bigger more able carnivore can take it on. Adult Stego dominates the current roster and faces no real threat.

[glass herald]

Now that AI respawns have been fixed:
Can Deer go on the Utah diet in place of Chicken?
Chicken is only a single bite for a Utah, and not worth being on the diet at all, due to how tiny the reward is.
Leave the final diet the same, as it's all player-oriented.

[quiet moss]

A teno's head fits perfectly inside a carno's head, so why do I have to bite them so many times to kill them?

[rancid badge]

for fucks same, please, make carno vs pachy head crash not autowin for carno.

[hazy zinc]

Has it been taken note of the fact that it is quite literally impossible to fill up Carno's 3rd // diet? There are only two animals that fill up the // diet, and those are deer and dryo. Deer are a rare AI that only give carno a single tick of food, and Dryos are an equally rare playable that no one plays due to its pitiful stats, that ALSO give carno only a single tick of food. Just wanna throw that out there in case nobody in charge has noticed yet.

[blazing thistle]

I think the Deinosuchus is way too underpowered. Can we replace it with Kaprosuchus Saharicus? (just a joke)

[sweet rivet]

Some small Utah buffs
Buff Utah bite to 75n to help it keep the pressure in battles when it doesn't have the stamina for a good pounce or has applied enough bleed to a target
Buff utah weight to 475 to help it with hunting smaller prey while taking a bit more hits from things in its own tier

[sweet rivet]

nerf stegos blood pool :p

[shadow flume]

There are way to many boar on eu 1, i have found 10 near oasis in the last hours

[chrome umbra]

About the whole pachy stunning carnis when hitting their tails thing...
Why can a 450 lb creature easily stun a 1,800 lb adult carno?

I play carno often and regularly get CHASED by pachy players - it'd dumb and feels wrong that running for your life is basically the only option if you don't want to get boned by some boneheads

Edit: Hey, it's me again - Immediately after writing this I joined another fully grown carno and tried to take down a lone pachy - basically, he destroyed us (friend died when a second pachy and teno arrived on the scene to save him and I barely escaped with 1/4 hp and body + head fractures) while he survived by being near a mud pool (even though he took an absolute minimum of 6 bites like a champ and fell from a charge over the course of that +8 minute fight).

[hard dune]

Add potential diseases or debuffs for excessive 'mindless' killings/cannibalism, that can both punish and reward players.

Basically just adding a ingame system that punishes and potentially rewards people that just run around to kill for fun very frequently, or committing mass cannibalism. It could be something like rabies or prions, or even a requirement to reach a more 'abominable' state. It should be something that is gained as you commit 'atrocities' killing frequently as herbivore/killing herbivores as herbivore, committing frequent cannibalism as carnivore, and is slowly lost over time unless it hits a certain threshold.

The effects should probably not affect stats, but rather their ability to cooperate with other dinosaurs. So if a carnivore/herbivore got rabies/prions it could prevent them from joining in groups, or even kick them out of a group if they are in it. The thought behind it is that any animal is going to be wary of something that is acting very sickly and abnormal, and probably won't want to be around them. You could even make the dinosaur look more sickly by drifting them towards a more pale coloring as they commit frequent atrocities, as a warning indicator for other dinosaurs that it might not be a good idea to be around them.

It could also be used as the first step of becoming something far more horrifying. One good example would be adding special perks later on in development that can only be acquired by dinosaurs with these diseases, giving them a potential edge since they will most likely be loners with no backup.

My reasoning with why this could potentially benefit the game is mostly from experiences playing it. I often encounter herbivores that actively chase down and kill both herbivores and carnivores for fun, and I also encounter carnivores that will hunt you down as the same species simply because they want to. This is obviously a part of normal gameplay, as you can't trust everyone and some herbivores are just nasty creatures looking at you hippos. However, I feel that this is slowly becoming more frequent, to the point that the isle feels more like a deathmatch with a growing stage instead of a survival/simulation game. I am under the impression that adding a system that can both reward and punish a player for doing these things will curb those that wish to stay in groups/packs, and incentivize loners that would rather be a terror of the isle.

[blazing thistle]

Add an ALT + RMB attack for Deinosuchus. Such as a tail attack that real alligators and crocodiles do

[onyx granite]

tweak bucking, i have vid proof i went from full stam to none in 1 second

[indigo ice]

Pachy is a bit too strong in the current game. I propose 2 slight nerfs and 1 slight buff to pachy to make it in line with other animals.

1. Reduce the duration of the stun on a headbutt and completely remove it from the Alt attack. The headbutt stun is a bit long with how little end lag pachy has after landing one. This will also remove possible stunlocking. The alt attack should not stun, bit should gain extra damage to compensate.

2. Make pachy turn slightly worse. For an animal that is supposed to have weak flanks, it is far too good at defending them, making any Utah attack very one-sided. Making it slightly worse at turning will alleviate this.

3. Buff body fractures. Body fractures are in-concequenctial to any Carnotaurus. Body fractures should have another debuff that discourages chasing, such as taking damage over time while running or attacking.

Also please allow juvenile pachies to knock coconuts off trees.

With these changes pachy will hopefully be more in line with the rest of the cast.

[merry hare]

fix tenos tail hitbox so it doesn't hit you from a mile away

fix utahs abusing the pounce the face bullshit

fix carnos charging and stunning some ones tail

nerf stego so it has something the fear

that doesn't mean deino deserves so much power it is able to beat stego on land. make it so deino stuns stego with a lunge to the face, that way stegos get punished for being cocky.

buff ptera/dryo bites.

pachy really isn't as over tuned as people say, just make it take a bit more stam for its charge attack. it isn't that powerful, i took down 4 with a sub carno.

and either remove the shallow spots at oasis, the mud pool at oasis, or oasis.

the game is honestly pretty damn balanced right now. but with some people taking the slight unbalanced parts and blowing them out of proportion, the devs will probably listen, and fuck the balance again.

[cloud acorn]

Pachy is the only dinosaur that suffers any meaningful consequences for being body fractured and that needs to be fixed. When body fractured, Pachy cannot fully charge its ram, it can only use the tap variant, which is a good way to punish a Pachy who got hit with a clean charged ram. However, literally no other dinosaur gets this level of punishment from being body fractured. Besides a nearly nonexistent stamina nerf any dinosaur can get up from being body fractured and continue the fight just fine. I suggest most dinosaurs shouldn't be able to use a high stamina dependant ability when body fractured, a Utah shouldn't be able to pounce with a body fracture and a Carno shouldn't be able to charge. This wouldn't be a death sentence to players who got body fractured because they could simply run away, but at least it sends the message that they should stop the fight. Right now, getting a body fracture on anything changes absolutely nothing about a fight, since a Utah can simply get up and pounce you and a Carno can simply keep spam biting you to death because the body fracture does fuck all to stop it from doing that. I understand that body fracture should probably have the most forgiving effects out of all the fracture types since it's the easiest to get, but at least something about it needs to change so it's not literally useless anymore.

[onyx granite]

make body fracture better and deal actual self harm to the health like running takes .5 health every second attacking maybe like 5% and ability use like 10% etc. why are people able to do so much with broken ribs, i rarely see anyone talking about busted ass bleed atm, plus the new op scent system making things even easier. this is the last ill speak on that almost useless mechanic. so hopefully it gets a buff when pachy gets tuned. BUT when i headbutt a utah as pachy with a charged headbutt i want it out of commission. Same thing goes both ways ofc.

[agile jay]

Got some positive feedback for dryo, it is way more playable than I was expecting. Its actually pretty fun. I main carni because I get bored easily, but dryo managed to be pretty interesting to play. Its as fast as it needs to be, as maneuverable as it needs to be, jump is perfect, and the diet is good. The only thing I would change is to give it a bit more stam, but that problem might solve itself if burrowing is introduced for it.

[hazy zinc]

Give fracture damage back to carno's charge and teno's tail slam, but with two key differences:

1. Absolutely no leg fracture chance for either of these dinosaurs, only body/head. Carno giving a leg fracture to an opponent defeats the entire purpose of carno being fast, and teno being able to leg fracture just incentivizes it to chase down and butcher the fractured animal.

2. The fracture chances should be relatively small for both animals, between 10% and 20%. Neither of these animals should be relying on dealing out fractures, but instead should be a lucky reward for landing a successful tail slam or charge attack.

[lavish tundra]

Buff the Pteranodon strong enough to kill a juvenile, give it the ability to grab hatchlings or juvenile in future. Pteranodon could carry anything 4 times its weight yet in the game it cant even carry a rabbit

50 bite force was very reasonable for the pteranodon and if you look at its beak its very sharp at the tip in my opinion it should do a little bleed since its attack literally just pecks you to death with its sharp tipped beak

[lavish tundra]

Deino and other aquatic playables need better vision in the water. It looks uninteresting and boring with the foggy look

[thick inlet]

Could you please buff austroraptor´s health and damage (bite force), because he literally dies (excluding the ones that are smaller then him) for only 1 bite of every dinosaur, utahraptor 1 bite him and he is already dead and they have the same sizes when austroraptor literally needs like 20 bites to kill a utahraptor ( I did the maths and austroraptor´s damage is 60 and utahraptor´s health is 1200, 1200÷60=20) and that is difficult or even impossible, because of utahraptor´s hit box, that is "small" so you have to literally "go against him", but if you do that, he bites you once and you are dead. Please consider this message helpful, because I really love austroraptor because is a very beautiful dinosaur and a little bit stronger to try and duel with dinosaurs of his sizes or a little bit bigger, like for example: ceratosaurus, would be nice.

[sleek kindle]

I disagree, modern day Crocodile's and Gators don't have overly good underwater vision due to their nictitating membrane (eyelid), which allows them to see just about as well as someone with googles can in a lake. What i would recommend otherwise is to give Deino a very good night vision like its modern day predecessors, due to a mirror like crystal lining behind the Cornea that reflects light within it eyes enhancing the image in low light environment's, also I wouldn't be overly against if you use this against Deino which could warn Deinos potential prey due to this reflection of light which make alligators eyes glow in the dark
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/videos/category/science/astounding-facts-about-crocodile-eyes/

[plucky vapor]

spawn protection would be greeeeeat. currently waiting for 3 mins on all spawns because of raptors attacking me before my screen even turns on. 4 times in less than 3 mins...fun

[onyx granite]

baby carno shouldnt beat a pachy parry, its silly. i havent seen anyone speak on this cuz pachy is so op rn and bugs it has to deal with are irrelevant but please fix this silliness ALSO speed up the animation when a pachy stops eating a coco or melon off the ground, very unnecessary.

[finite sapphire]

Regarding spawns-
A current issue is that it's incredibly easy to camp the spawn points and repeatedly kill players until they are completely locked out from spawning in due to the timer. In addition to adding additional places for players to spawn, I highly suggest two things:

1: Add more varied points for players to spawn in around the current spawn points, spreading out where players spawn in that particular region. It can be extremely frustrating when someone is camping a spot and seeming to pop up in the same exact spot every time, making it incredibly easy to kill people as they load in. Another issue is spawning directly on top of other players, and if they spawned in ahead of you, can get a free kill as you load or get trapped within them.

2: Add a random spawn option that does not have a timer. Selecting random spawn will randomly choose between any of the spawn points for you, without telling you where you actually end up. This would be particularly useful for if you are locked out of all other spawn options, as it doesn't have a timer and would be subject to much less abuse than simply choosing the same location over and over again.

[hexed stump]

Watersounds are mostly buggy and way too loud

[gloomy snow]

I'm sorry but there really needs to be something done with the pachy hitbox.. losing your full grown carno just because a pachy hits the tip of your tail and stuns you (and others finish you) is just ridiculous and stupid. For example, when teno tail slams your tail you don't get stunned, so why is that with pachy's ram attack? Makes no sense to me.. make it hit the tail and deal damage but not stun you. I'm pretty sure that it is doable.

[lavish tundra]

Anyways we all know herds break the balance and impossible for carnivores to get a meal.

What makes this worse is when Carno sticks at around 3 group members while most herbivores gets 6 or 7. Yup definitely balanced am I right.

Either lower herbivore group limits or raise carnivores

[shell burrow]

Remove oasis more like. The water and foliage makes it a growth haven

[merry hare]

i've been playin alot more carnivore than herbivore lately, and i gotta say, it's really easy to grow.

i'm not against having easy growths, i don't really like making growth so painful when all of the fun stuff in the game is when you're an adult.

but for carno, utah, and ptera, all i had to do was fill up as a hatchling, and right before sub and i cruised to full adult.

herbivores food is more consistent, so it will almost always be there.

but with the time it takes for a baby herbi to spawn in and get all my food, i already had my diets full with carni.

the ai spawns are really easy to find and use all the way till sub.

the 3 biggest ai spawns are also around oasis, meaning it is even easier for people to just pick south every god damn time they spawn.

on a full server you can scavenge. on an empty server there's tons of ai.

it doesn't have to be super drastic, but just spread out the ai spawns, so growing a carni isn't as easy as it is right now.

[next silo]

utahs should not be able to pounce the tail/head. thats it.

[lavish tundra]

Rn it’s way too easy to grow a carnivore to sub adult with perfect diet.

My proposed change is make it so that you still have no preferred diet however every creature has a set nutrient they give Juvies/babies. That way you only get one nutrient from bodys like adults however your not limited to what you can eat yet.

Think of it like your diet “changing” mid growth

[livid igloo]

Stegos are utterly broken, boring, uninteresting to play, the perfect candidate for griefing / endless body camping... you name it. They currently don't fit in there at all and should have their blood pool reduced by a good 25-30%. The should not be able to one shot carnos / tenos (litteraly one shot), and if so then they should have their blood pool / health damage significantly reduced. They fill in slots on servers to do nothing other than being an annoyance / danger to anyone around. They are so bored out of their mind their only chance to do something is to either body camp carnivores or one shot any herbivore that passes by. Somehow the utahs who could deal with them through bleed, for the most part very often end up falling back within the dead zone of the stego.

[slender zealot]

Rules for no mixpacking, i cant how many times i needed food and my prey went to a full adult deino and i couldnt get it, and even when i killed my prey the deino would just go to it and eat it. Like this is insane, every kill almost gets stealed by a deino. Make it so some small animal can just get 100% protection easily fro ma deino.

[lavish tundra]

Please consider removing/disabling Stegosaurus.

No matter how you try to argue its reason for being in the current roster, it just doesn't belong. Sure it's a herbivore but you can't stop people from playing it as a blood hungry super predator. As of now the only way to even contend with a Stego is to either kill it while they're really really young, even then they are notoriously strong, or to toss as many utahs at it from a finite amount. Even Deinos can't reliably kill a stego.

I can already see people arguing that Deino should be disabled/removed as well. I'd argue against it since the deino population is essentially locked into staying in rivers (or Party Pool 2.0 90% of the time) with the inability to remain on land for more than 10 minutes. Paired with their incredibly slow mobility, they just aren't a major threat to terrestrial dinos. They're only a threat when you need water and even then there's still plenty of shallow spots that are safe to drink from all over the island.

Stego on the other hand has little to no restrictions on its killing potential. It can easily 1-2 shot the entire terrestrial roster and given its large size, stegos can stand in deeper water compared to everything else. This allows stegos to get into deeper spots of rivers (and Party Pool 2.0) and swing it's tail to fish for deinos. The thing that makes the whole carnivore experience even worse is when these massive super predators decide they want to bodyguard. Too many times a stego will take a $40 uber ride from some obscure part of the island just to stop a juvie carno from enjoying its hard earned meal. Since there are no large terrestrial dinos that can contend with stego, this behavior goes unchecked and is allowed continue.

A better fit for the current roster would have been Kentro but it isn't ready unfortunately. I don't see why stego can't be removed or disabled since Evrima is a test branch in which all things are subject to change. I don't know if the Devs can disable dinos without the need of a patch but If they are able to then I don't see a reason why they can't disable it. At least for Official servers.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/855527844670865438/934161401767952394/stegos_wtf.png
This shouldn't be such a common occurrence as it is right now. It spoils any and all fun to be had playing as a carnivore. To top it all off, it's worsen by Party Pool's existence since at least half the server is grouped up in one place. Leaving the rest of the island empty and making it difficult to avoid since it's one of the most reliable spots to find food as a carnivore.

[patent blade]

Make a body fractured carnotaurus un-able to charge

[delicate wren]

From mostly playing pachy, I have an idea for 4 changes that could help pachy be a bit less oppressive but still strong.
1: nerf pachy’s damage from headbutt (not the bone break damage) or increase it’s stam cost, this will help prevent pachies from bashing a carno to death, and instead end the fight after a bone break.

2: increase the impact of body fractures, either make it drain stam quickly or health, so a pachy can go for a chest break to end the fight rather than bashing until the predator no longer has bones.

3: allow pachies to survive a carno charge, this might just be me, but losing your pachy because you looked away for 5 seconds is infuriating. So either reduce the stun duration or damage slightly so a pachy can survive on like 5hp if the carno turns around. That way it can’t fight anymore, but has a chance to live.

4: reduce the stun duration of pachy’s headbutt on a carno, so you can’t just stun lock and mob it, but it still gives the pachy a chance to make some distance.

Overall, this should make pachy less of a glass cannon and mor fun to play as and against

[thick ether]

deino
Add fracture infliction to deino's bite.
Terrestrials should have reduced weight value while swimming so deino can grab larger swimming animals.
Remove major shallow areas, shallows shouldn't have as much of an abundance of resources surrounding them as oasis does.
Bring back riverside wallowing even if it is less effective than mud pool wallowing.
Terrestrial attacks should be reduced somewhat while they are in deep water.
pachy
Add diminishing returns to each cc type to help balance all cc utilizers now and in the future, this will prevent stunlocks without a direct nerf, this isn't a pachy exclusive change and it can help avoid balance issues with future CC heavy animals.
Add a short recovery for missed charge where pachy must skid to a halt, he is lunging his whole weight forward and facing no repercussion for missing.
Increase alt bite stamina cost by a bit.
Increase his juvenile stage speed and give him an easier to access coconut alternative until he hits 50%.
Buff body fracture to put a cap on stamina scaling with the severity of the fracture, similar to the sickness hunger cap, it is useless right now.
stego
When kentro is released, remove stego from official servers until more fitting paired animals arrive that make it easier to balance. Private servers should be able to keep it, but it doesn't belong here right now.
carno
Give carno a head swing attack that deals stagger or knockdown depending on target size
utah
Give utah a 'quick pounce' that allows it to kick off a target and disengage without latching at all so he has more attack variety.
Return obstacle scraping and allow large animals to damage utah against rocks and trees.
Trees should nullify or reduce attacks depending on their size, so animals can't bite or swing through them like they aren't there.
Add more grapple points that vary in effectiveness depending on the target.

the other animals are fine for now

[sleek kindle]

I love the idea of swimming should decrease weight while in the water due to mass unchanging but instead due to the effect of buoyancy of the item while surrounded by water therefore the upward force of water pressure makes the item seem lighter . for example a lb of stone is about 15-20% lighter in water than in air

[dense matrix]

Prevent Pachy from causing a stun if it hits your tail/hits you from behind, stuns should be a body and leg specific effect, this is not only for the sake of logistics but for balancing as well (only applicable to animals larger than utah).

Anyways...

Pachy has very good stamina and decent speed to supplement, it is often that they will chase down attackers until they run out of stamina, executing them. This wouldn't be that massive of an issue if the predators of pachy (or even some herbis they decide to kill) didn't have lower stamina (Carno) or lower speed (teno and pretty much any future pseudo mid tiers as they will all be slower than carno).
Pachy doesn't need to stun from behind and it only makes it easy to predate. If multiple pachys are defending from an attacker, it is entirely possible for them to land blows from the front or sides, thus adding to the fairness of the engagement and the skill ceiling of the animal.

This also aids in discouraging Pachy players to kill other herbivores, whether it be the current or future roster.
Most herbivores have rear facing defenses, the one's that don't usually have speed or some sort of armor.
Given the precedent set by say, ceratopsians, and how durable their skulls are, you could make their heads particularly resistance to fracture damage and pachy stun, making the only method of disabling a ceratopsian as a pachy to hit the flanks, increasing the difficulty and risk to levels that would deter players from attempting at all.
The herbis most at risk are hadrosaurs, but given the nebulous nature of their attacks as far as we know, they could have rear attacks as well.

My point is, you made Pachy an incredibly powerful animal, one that worries me when put into the context of roster expansion and combat fairness. It's a fantastic animal and a lot of effort went into it, which is exactly why I'd hope it be further improved upon. This is not implicative of a stat nerf, just a minor functionality change.

[wise lark]

Maybe less fall damage. Seems a bit ridiculous losing a 100% Deino to a 10ft fall

[shell burrow]

I mostly play dryo because i enjoy a quick and fun experience but you are in desperate need of a dryo buff. Two freshspawn carnos have enough health to fight me. Its really annoying, give dryo a higher bite force or something like that

[heady coyote]

Hello I would suggest to have a more balanced experience in combat you should be able to run in the mud pits as they are used all the time by the Bigger Dinosaurs to keep the Utahs off their backs as as a Utah you get there very quickly after 1-2 hits is dead and you can calm the bleeding away. I would suggest nerfing the Teno a bit, he is Utah and in the Carno fight just too strong with his tail smack, which he can really do 50x full and which also drains so much life and apparently costs almost no stamina at all. E.g. as a Utah you can usually only withstand 2 hits, so if you were hit 1x with it you are dead and even the Carno often can’t take more than 3. (too high damage and stuning and extremely few stamina costs are easy to OP) And manb doesn't really have to have anything on it to just muddle through the carnivores. Which just takes the fun out of the fair skill fight. (In addition, I would personally suggest something so that the Utah is not disadvantaged so much, I personally think it would be good if it would cost a little stamina to shake off a cracked Utah to compensate for something if you hunt as a Utah. Of course, that shouldn't be the case costs a lot of stamina because it's otherwise unfair but it shouldn't be free in any case.) but in general normal bites bring almost nothing at all with carnivores the damage you cause or bleed are just nothing against the risk of getting 1 or 2 tail slaps and then dying and your attacks didn't actually do anything, only if you really manage it countless times with at least 3-4 really good games you have a chance at all. I hope my suggestion makes sense and could help to make the great game even more enjoyable.

[indigo ice]

I suggest tweaking Tenonto's moveset a bit. Currently, there is very little reason to use the kick, since tail slam is leagues better. In order to make Tenonto combat more varied I propose changes to both of these moves. Essentially, slightly buffing kick and nerfing/changing slam.

Kick:

1. Increase the hitbox size of kick, as it misses when it really should hit.
2. Re-add bleed damage to the kick
3. Make the stun/knockdown of kick equivilent to current slam.
4. Reduce the stamina drain on kick slightly

Slam:

1. Nerf the damage. It just does too much damage right now. Around 290N is a good spot.
2. Replace the stun on tail slam with fracture damage. This gives kick a legitimate reason to be used. Slam should still be able to stun, but only work on smaller creatures
3. Reduce the stamina cost of tail slam to coincide with the damage need and stun removal.

With these changes, fights with Tenotosaurus will last longer, and require more skill and diverse use of its attacks, while ensuring that it can no longer kill a carno with one stun and headshots.

TLDR: buff kick, nerf slam, give slam fractures over stun. (A slight nerf to Tenonto while increasing the skill cap)

[blazing thistle]

Game optimization. I run evrima on a decent computer and I still find myself catching lag a lot of time. It's most inconvenient when you're trying to fight and all of a sudden you get a lag spike. It doesn't matter what you do to the settings; it doesn't help. Please optimize the game performance.

[lavish jewel]

i just got 1-hit by a teno as an adult utah, i suggest not making the tail slam that strong- not even a knockdown, straight up dead

[keen cradle]

The amount of one shots that the herbs have is pretty awful to deal with. Teno can spam tail on carno and basically kill it, Pachy spam chain stun and kill things without them able to fight back.

IMO lower the stun duration to give things AT LEAST a chance to escape and heal/starve to death in 1v1s. Teno tail spam nerf as well, it's insane how Teno can do like 5 tail slaps on anything it stuns with it's size.

And Stego lol just as everyone said, nobody can really deal with it (except super coordinated raptors) and it's basically a better carnivore at this point than any of the real carnivores we have.

[spiral spire]

The new diet System makes is nearly impossible to grow a new Dino. Utahs and Carnos groups are spawn camping to get fresh diet dinos and kill hatchlings all the time. The spawn points need to be changed and the diet System shouldnt work at hatchlings.

[velvet stone]

The issue with the current stun/fracture mechanic is that when they're inflicted the victim is forced to be stationary which gives the attacker a free bite or two before the victim can do anything which leads into seemingly unfair deaths. IMO there should be moving variations of getting stunned/fractured wherever it seems fitting that way the victim at least has a chance of escape but, these stun/fracture variants should come with a reduced turn radius for a short period (at least until the animation plays out). The victim should also be able to hold their sprint key during the stationary version to pick themselves up faster at the cost of some stam. Should be self explanatory but sprinting while getting fractured should also take a pretty noticeable chunk of stam

[low garnet]

1. Reduce Teno’s tail slam dmg. Increase Teno’s kick radius.
2. Increase Deino’s Alt-Bite force.
3. In the future give Deino some short of tug of war grapple for animals above 4 tons.
4. Increase stam cost for Pachy’s alt attack.
5. Remove Pachy’s stun. Buff body fracture in general.
6. Bring back mud along rivers. Make them clot blood but do worse than mud pits. They can also hide tracks. This way there aren’t mega packs camping one wallow spot and you can actually hide your scent in different areas of the map besides oasis. Also gives Deinos more chances to ambush.
7. Increase hunger times on carnivores and increase how much food a body gives. Right now you have to eat your entire body weight when you really should just have to fill your stomach. (A Dryo should fill up a Utah, a Utah should fill up a carno, a teno or carno body should be more than enough for two carnos.) Carnivores feel like they are constantly on the hunt right now when they should be able to make a kill and stay with it. Also helps increase interactions between carnivores fighting over bodies.

[finite sapphire]

A lot of people are calling for complete nerfs across the board for herbivores, and really the only one I think it fits is stego for the current roster. Rather than make all herbivores weaker and do less damage, give their attacks, especially their powerful ones, heavy diminishing returns, especially on tenonto and pachy. The headbutts and tail slams in particular should be attacks you coordinate with your herd, rather than just spam until something dies. Make them cost more stam but do less damage when spammed to prevent just mindlessly button mashing until your predator is dead, and force the players to rely on herding and safety in numbers, so that one will attack and allow a chance for its herdmates to do so while the diminishing effect fades off.

As others have said though, something does need to be done about the stuns. Not all of them should be stopping players from moving, only the absolute most severe. We need to be able to get up quicker and move when getting hit with a lot of attacks, rather than being stuck in the other player or prevented from moving completely. This is really prevalent with pachy at the moment, where if you have two or more, you can effectively stunlock anything and keep them from getting up by repeatedly stunning, or use the hitboxes so they can't get out from in-between them.

While on the note of herbivore balance, stego also should have to use a lot more stam on its tail swings when standing in water that slows it and perhaps swing slower. At least until heavier and more powerful animals are in the game, it really does need a heavy nerf, because a fully grown stego is effectively invincible unless facing mega packs or other stegs.

[quiet moss]

Herbivore mistakes are barely punishable while e.g. getting 1 hit as a carno is a synonym of death

[gloomy snow]

With stego the main problem ISN'T how super OP it is, the problem is that we DON'T HAVE any carnivores who could really compete with it (Except deinos but we all know how a 1v1 with a Stego ends for a single Deino).

My ideal fix would be releasing ALLO who could bring the Stego population down at least a little bit. Stego has so much HP that it is almost impossible to kill it unless you bleed it out (which is almost impossible with the CURRENT ROSTER of dinos apart from Utahs, but even then it is really hard as the tail swing will get you due to the latency when you pounce off).

That's why we NEED A BLEEDER and Allo would be a PERFECT choice as not only it literally lived alongside Stegos, but also because it deals sh*t ton of bleed (or at least it did in legacy).

Edit:
Plus you already have some animations ready for Allo (morph, trot, walk and run) as you have shown us on your streams almost like 2 YEARS ago maybe even more.

[jaunty elm]

Bleed is redundant because of oasis, Allo is not going to do shit against the mega-herds.

[rocky ember]

tento 100% fall from 2 meters and die instant with full hp nerf fall damage

[gray bone]

Give carnivores less food drain. You complain about people having death matches in center yet you put an easily camped spot with all the herbivores food in it, and make carnivores need to kill constantly just to keep up with the food cost. Unless you secretly released a watered down hypo with only the food drain.

[shell burrow]

Remove oasis so they can’t mega group in a death trap of an area. The Utah’s can kill them

[rapid marten]

Herbivores for some reason are more effective at killing than their carnivore counterparts. Pachy is better than Utah, Tenonto is better than Carno and Stego is miles better than Deino. In the case of Pachy and Tenonto I think the problem is the whole stun lock thing. It’s just not very fair and all it’s done is make players who want to constantly murder things play herbivores. I don’t think the stats need to be messed with I just think the whole stun thing needs to be looked into.

[lavish tundra]

Instead of nerfing stego into the ground to where it’s irrelevant, or adding a bigger creature (which just makes another stego problem) just lower its health and damage until we get bigger things

[wise lark]

How about we take away herbivore's graze ability? Constant migrations for food, competition for herbs will be very high, and it gives everything a chance to starve. At the moment without the chance of starving herbivores are too easy to keep alive in 1 location until 100%

[hardy talon]

I propose that, instead of outright removing the grazing feature, only let baby/juvie herbivores do it, remove the feature from adults

[inner topaz]

Just an idea can we get a feature, that would help carnivores player out a bit. It’s frustrating going against a herd of herbivores just for them to body deny the player that was just killed. Can a feature be added that herbivores get some type of sickness quicker by being too close to a dead body? So the other player have a chance to eat what they were able to bring down.

[heavy gate]

pachy definately has to be improved you cant even jump over them as a utah while theyre charging, pachys need to be nerfed hard, hherbivores cant go running around like they own the place, their most favoured defensive should be to run and hide not run after carnivores and kill everything, they should only be allowed to hit one dinosaur once and then have a debuff time where they cant touch that carno again

[rocky ember]

give tento more immunity to bleed 2 adult utahs can easliy bleed it out

[lavish tundra]

Fractures are non existent outside of pachy. Things need more room before they fall and die. That way you’ll fracture your leg instead of simply die from a fall that really shouldn’t of killed you

[brave imp]

Playing Deinosuchus isn´t what it used to be...

I´ve been playing the same Deinosuchus for a total of about 10 hours now and I never ambushed anything in that time. This is due to there not being anything to ambush... Everyone is drinking at spots like for example the shallow sides of the oasis. I pretty much ate AI-Fish only. You also are too slow to kill anything on land that is not playing unnecessary risky. All of this makes the Deinosuchus an** isolated playable** which lives it´s own life eating fish all the time...

Please think about increasing the reasons for dinos to go near water by re-adding the ability to wallow (weaker wallow than in real mudpits(Idea by howell#1305)) there for example... Stuff like this would really make the *Deinosuchus-*Gameplay exciting and fun again

[onyx granite]

make de-pounce more controllable, like if i want to jump off towards a dino's tail i do so by looking at that general tail area, if its already a thing i tried doing so but my utah still jumped off like normal multiple times.

[finite sapphire]

Herbivore Competition
One of the biggest issues with herbivores at the moment is that there isn't really any competition between herbivore species at all. Aside from stego players being bored and trying to kill as many others as possible, there's no reason for herbivores to fight one another at all, and the easiest way to survive as an herbivore is to just find literally any other herbivore species and stick with them. There should be increased competition and not all species of herbivores be incentivized to work together or even with later growth stages of their own species.

1- Have multiple new herbivore species rely on the same foods as the current roster. This will increase competition between herbivores, especially as more is added to the roster. Don't have the diets completely match one another, but some herbivores should be competing for the same food. Ideally, herbivores competing with one another should be similar tiers, as not to have situations where say a trike eats the same food as a dryo, where in the dryo can do nothing about it.

2- Have different life stages of herbivores need different foods. This would particularly fit the largest herbivores quite well, such as sauropods or the shant. We already have a similar system for carnivores, where their young stages have no preference. Young versions of very large herbivores having different requirements would split up large groups and encourage them to play with herbivores of similar size, at least in the same species, and less likely to work with one another or be in the same areas.

3- Some herbivores should be generalists that can eat a much wider variety of foods. These generalist herbivores being able to eat many more kinds of foods may become a threat to other herbivore species as they eat their diet foods, and cause competition with a variety of species due to their ability to move from one biome to another easily.

[cloud acorn]

Both Deinosuchus and Stegosaurus need to be brought down in weight until more apex sized dinosaurs are added to the game. We've had 4 ton Stego before and it worked a lot better, so I would suggest making Stego 4 tons and Deino 5 tons at least for now. Due to the weight=health system, these giants are way too safe from everything except each other. Stego is not only unfun to hunt but also unfun to play because you know nothing can kill you. A 4 ton Stego would be a lot easier for packs of Utah's to take down, and even groups of Carnos would have a better chance, while a 5 ton Deinosuchus would mean that it could no longer get a free kill on a fully grown Carno or Teno at 65% growth and would rather need to be nearly fully grown to catch them. A damage nerf to Stego would also probably help the game, at least to its growth stages, because there's no reason a subadult Stego should nearly 2 shot a Carno. I know a lot of people would be upset that their big scawy apex dinosaurs would be reduced to what would probably be more accurately described as pseudo apexes that actually have to worry about mid and low tiers, but it would be objectively better and healthier for the game. I miss those times when I'd want to cross the shallow river as a Deinosuchus, saw 3 Carnos and turned around because I knew they could actually be a threat to me on land. That's all gone now as all Deino has to worry about on land currently is Stego. Not to mention, you need Stego to have more dinosaurs that can hunt it in the near future. We can't wait for Rex and Giga while we only have Utah as a Stego hunter until then, that'd be fucking stupid. So I'd suggest making both Cerato and Dilo efficient at taking down Stegos, wether it'd be Cerato being able to stun Stego for a second to get a hit off, or Stego's night vision being super ass giving Dilos the chance to hunt it at night, anything to give Stego more than 2 matchups as it has now.

[lavish tundra]

A few changes I would make to some animal(this is gonna be a quick rundown, I'll give some explanations further down)

Tenontosaurus
-Nerf Tenontosaurs' tail slam dmg drastically to maybe only 100-150 dmg and decrease the stam consumption to 5% instead of 10%

-Buff the kicks damage and increase the range of it a little bit. Also give the kick medium fracture damage

-Add the "running" tailslam that we've seen in the initial concept art of Tenonto. This is activated by running, holding alt and pressing lmb. Trotting/walking/standing will perform the normal tailslam.
The running tailslam will deal alot of dmg, potentially even dealing 500-600 damage but in return will take 15% stamina, a missed running tailslam will also give you a small little recovery

Why do this with Tenonto?
Tenonto right now seems to have basically everything in terms of combat. I've always seen Tenonto as a brawler that only becomes a brawler by being a very good all-rounder. It has many options of attacks for many different uses. The change to the normal tailslam will make it be used as more of a utility option rather than a mindless murder weapon. As of right the current tail slam has almost everything going for it, and almost makes the kick and other attacks have very little use.
Buffing the kick will make the kick more of the killing weapon. It would be a perfect combo with the tailslam, knock them down / stun them to then finish them off with a nasty and dangerous kick. Or if an opponent gets too close, simply kick them and perhaps you'll fracture something of their body which will surely drive them away.
The running tailslam will be the high-risk-high reward move. This is the move that will be the most like Tenonto's current tailslam, with long reach, very high dmg and CC.

Carnotaurus:
-Decrease its accerleration
-Make the growl of the charge slightly quieter
This is simply to further push the "ambush-hunter" niche.

And lastly, make Utahs dismount aimable via keys, not camera.

[wise lark]

Give stun immunity for 3ish seconds after being stunned, so you cant stun lock enemy.

[finite sapphire]

A more reliable way to look up is pretty sorely needed, especially on hatchlings and smaller creatures. Right now, it's pretty hard to actually see directly above you due to the models getting in the way. As a hatchling or a hypsi, it makes it very hard to see where pteranadons are coming from when they attack you

[cloud acorn]

Buff Deino's lunge range, it's stupidly short. I've had multiple instances where a Carno was 2 meters away from the water's edge and my lunge somehow didn't have the range to catch them. This combined with all the action being at Oasis where you physically can't get an ambush on anything just makes Deino feel not worth playing.

[mortal musk]

Speed buff Juvi and sub pachy please

[hazy zinc]

Rework tenonto's tail slam so that spamming it isn't the optimal strat. Both Carno and Pachy's power moves are not spammable, and require the dinosaur to follow up with different attacks, so tenonto should not be any different.

[fresh parcel]

Hi, could we get a slight damage reduction to stegos tail swing? Aswell as an increase to Deinos bite damage. I'd like it if the fights between them were a little closer to 50/50 1v1. The deino is heavier, and should technically have a bite that is at least on par with rex. I dont think it would be that unreasonable to be a closer match to stego, especially since we know that the much smaller Allos were somehow hunting (attempting to hunt) them irl. Just a thought, thanks.

[timid plank]

I hate how tiny Stegs' head is and it takes the same amount of bonus damage ever other playable has except pachy. If pachy can have head damage reduced, stego should have like SUPER damage increase from getting head shot. It's head is tiny! I know you want Utah bleeding it out but the other playables shouldn't have to rely on that. That's utah's nich. Reconsider giving stego's head a HUGE weakness. It's got the tools to keep it's head protected anyway.

[hazy zinc]

Carnotaurus feels a bit underdeveloped right now. While its mobility nerfs were warranted due to its raw speed and drift ability that is excellent for dodging attacks, Its bite feels quite pathetic after its nerf. And on top of this, the fact that its only options for attack are a charge and a bite makes its playstyle incredibly predictable. To allow for a more interesting battle plan for both Carnotaurus and its opponents, give it a new headswing attack that it can use to swat away smaller opponents, and deal higher damage than a bite attack to larger opponents at the cost of stamina.

[next silo]

when you stop eating, you are locked in an animation for about 2 seconds. this is crucial for when you are getting charged/pounced when you are a herbivore, especially a small one like pachy. please make this quicker, or, just remove it for the time being, i just got killed by it, because as you know the footstep sounds are a bit bugged atm. I hear a carno charging, I try running but nope, animation locked because I was eating a coconut.

[cerulean willow]

I feel like stego's way of fighting should be reworked. Stego has an extremely small head, that should be extremely vulnerable to attacks. Lets be honest here. Realistically if an adult deinosuchus, which is estimated to have a biteforce of 23,100 psi, were to bite the head of a stego, it would be decapitated. This fear of head damage would stop stegos from "fishing". Stego's fight should be all about protecting its head, with it's large sweeping and precise stabbing attacks. Furthermore stego should be able to defend it's head better (possibly with an attack that has a larger sweep that uses more stamina) in order to make sure it doesn't get obliterated.

[pale sedge]

I have some thought on a more balanced pachy fighting mechanic. first of all, the stationary headbutt shoud no damage, with no fractures and knockback. BUT it should give a sort of stun that wouldn't lock the attacker in place, but cancel any attacks. for example, it a utah were to go to bite/pounce, it would be able to perform any attacks for 2-3 seconds. pachy's charge mechanic should basically be the carnotaurus, with low turning stability, and should do about half 90 precent a raptor's health. also a pounce from an adult utah should knock it down and pin it to the floor, and basically anything utah can pin, when pinned should take extra damage. to counter utah's pounce pachy should be able to turn very quickly. pachy shouldn't do stationary damage, but it should be able to start a charge .4 seconds after starting to sprint. And carno shouldn't be something to do head on damage, to turn while in charge you wouldn't be able to look to turn it would have to be A and D. its charge should be something that would give it extremely fast speed, and when it gets next to the prey thats when charge doesn damage, where the player look, then clicks, the carno will swing its head in an ark going down then up, stabbing what ever is in the path with it's horns. this should do about 40% of stego's damage, so it would be good hunting fast prey.

[merry hare]

nerf the herbivores damage a bit, make their running stam lower. give carnivores better running stam and maybe increase their speed a bit. carnivores can already choose to not fight herbivores, but this'll make it a bit easier and stop herbis from being over agro.

they're kinda basic balance changes, you'd hope it wouldn't take long, and some of the ideas thrown out to nerf herbivores were a bit out there.

removing grazing is odd and pretty useless as herbis would then just eat mountain ash and agave or whatever else is near oasis, then everybody is gonna complain about that.

you can remove stun but then carnos gonna be fodder, and if you remove it for pachy and teno then they're gonna be fodder.

these aren't core combat problems, just balance tweaks. stego needs a few more tweaks tho.

[dense matrix]

Pachy shouldn't stun from behind when ramming animals heavier than it, why hitting a teno in the back or even base of it's tail from behind cancels it's forward momentum, I don't know, but logistically it's a absurd and from a gameplay POV it only facilitates Pachy's hunting down whatever they please. I play mostly Utah and Ptera but the amount of time's I've seen a pair of Pachies catch a teno by hitting it's tail AS it's slamming is laughable, it completely cancels out the attack and renders it vulnerable to a repeated stun, this is horrendously unfair.

[coral yarrow]

Deino lunge being longer and turning into a death roll if you land it

[agile jay]

Having the most powerful dino in the first few stages of evrima being an herbivore made sense at first but I think its apparent people misuse the hell out of it. Stegos are often very very very toxic players and will bodycamp and force the weakened animal which nearly killed itself getting food, into starvation. They need to be removed from the game until there are more prominent challengers for it like cera, allo, and sucho. I saw someone suggest replacing it with kentro which is a pretty good idea to keep the predator-herbivore balance in check.

Having deino being the most powerful animal in the game for a while makes sense because its not gonna be able to stop herbivore players from having fun since they can just run away, and its gonna be really ineffective at bodycamping since it needs water a lot more than anything else.

[finite sapphire]

Rather than just remove stego, prioritize adding a carnivore that can prey on it such as allosaurus. As it is, we could use another terrestrial carnivore in game right now that can prey on carnos more effectively, and allo likely would have a rather decent match up against pachy as well.

[next silo]

spread out all the diet foods for herbivores so you can actually find stuff spread out as a carnivore, not just oasis, you dont have to worry about other things interfering in your fight, also this helps with pachys just demolishing things at oasis. tell me the last time you saw a fully grown pachy at southeast, I haven't, because there is no reason for being there. For example, coconuts found in oasis, maybe agave found in like north east, and melons around SE or south, I get they dont do this because most herbie juvies are so slow and by the time you get a perfect diet you will be a sub, but maybe you could give juvie-sub herbies a larger variety of foods like sub carnivores and narrow it down as you get older, idk, ik it doesnt make sense but I can't think of anything else. it's better than 8 stegos just chilling at oasis not worrying about a damn thing. or having to avoid every bush near oasis in fear of getting shit on by a pachy. spreading out the diets will encourage carnivores to contest, because it'll be harder to find food, and grow, right now growing a carnivore is going to oasis, eat, afk, repeat until sub. it will also be more fun to hunt things because it'll be harder to find. right now there is a 100% chance there will be at least 5 dinos at oasis. There being dinos at oasis is not even a concern. the concern is which are they? it's pretty much a guarantee that there is some sort of food in oasis.

[mighty ermine]

Evrima is just so competitive. One thing I loved about legacy was how you could just chill every once in a while. You could survive without having to engage in pvp combat every 5 minutes or less. I would love to be able to see more niches be filled without overlapping survival needs. Maybe it’s just me but I can hardly make it to adult in this game now unless I’m sitting in the edges of the map, would be more fun for me if I could survive for longer 😅

[lavish tundra]

Remove the stamina drain for body dragging. It makes body dragging such a hassle for something that already slows you down, like it’s encouraging you to not drag bodys

There isn’t a reason to make it so punishing

[lavish tundra]

The Teno Tailslam needs a cooldown because it’s able to nearly kill a Carno with such a high damage rate. Plus your stunned so there isn’t much you can do about it

I’m fine with it having high damage as long as it’s not able constantly spam it when stunned. And nerfing jt isn’t the right call since then it would just get bodied by Carno

[delicate wren]

From what I have noticed by playing the game, everyone hates the stuns. You get hit by 1 carno charge, a teno slam, or pachy headbutt, and you get stun locked to death. So, i think a global stun duration nerf could be useful. Nobody likes to lose progress for making 1 mistake. The duration nerf doesnt need to be too long either, just give people a chance to get back up and run at a sliver of hp.

[sacred vale]

instead of just mitigating the problem of stuns through reduced times, i think a majority of stun instances where player input is 100% locked should be much less common

Currently we have two main stun types: knockdowns and staggers. both fully remove control from the player; no movement of any kind, no attacks of any kind, no way to mitigate the effect. most cases of stuns should not do this full effect, and rather have partial effects of varying types to add more variety and more importantly, give counterplay

for example...

parrys: cancel/take priority over incoming attacks and stop the target from attacking for a moment

Slows: significantly slow down turning speed and slow down movement speed by quite a bit for a moment

other various stuns can do varied things against movement and mobility, but its important they dont totally immobilize unless the attacker is severely outclassing the target (for example, a teno knocking down a utah is okay, but not fully immobilizing another teno).

TLDR total immobilization of movement and attacks on half the rosters kit is annoying and unbalanced, stuns and cc should be less extreme

[next silo]

The scent system is pretty good, but I would say it is too overpowered for all carnivores to have. I think this scent system should be limited to dinos that are bleeders like utah, or slow dinosaurs like T rex. For carno and such, things with fast speed and high damage, I feel like the old scent system would be better, harder to track, but more of a punishment for letting your prey get away.

[quiet moss]

it's going to take a while before we get him but please, increase cerato's bleed durability

[gentle plinth]

I think carnivores have it way to easy when it comes to their diet, it comes from the fact that they get a free perfect diet as juvis and because you can go beyond 100% on diets. As a Utah all you need is to spawn on the beach or just find any ai and you're done before you reach 50% make sure you are have a full stomach, as a carno or dino all you need to do is make sure you have an empty stomach by the time you're about to reach 50% and then eat as much as you can, as a carno this will make it possible to reach close to adult and about 75% as a dino. As a herbivore you either need to go to central lake were is dangerous or SE, if not you can't get perfect diet, this makes playing herbivore take way longer to grow then a carnivore. One solution I can think of is to make the free pass diet of carnivores from 50% to 20%-25% this way it will give a boost in growth to carnivores early on and make it harder to grow later on. Other solution would be to cap the amount of % you get as a juvi carnivore so for exemple not allowing the % to go beyond 20%-30% of perfect diet.

[analog yoke]

they really need to tone back teno and pachy heard 8 is way to much that many can bully the whole server where carno only gets 3 and they starve to death super fast so then we have to fight the huge full heards and most likely get killed for it i just think 8 teno is to much and pachy is to strong to have that many aswell

[sweet rivet]

Nerf teno slam to 290n but to compensate give kick fracture dmg. This would always make tenos have more reason to use kick in fights instead of tail slam spam

[lavish tundra]

Can we maybe remove the stunlock while eating? At least for small herbivores and hatchlings? Got killed as a dryo a few times now, because it is a one shot animal. Even if I see the danger I cant move and get killed, its pretty frustrating.

[mortal musk]

Speed buff juvie and sub adult pachy

[wise lark]

At the moment Pachy counters all terrestrial carnivores way to easily and I 100% think its because of its multiple abilities that abuse the currently overtuned stagger mechanic in Evrima. IMO making the ability to stagger another animal should only be reserved for special attacks against animals smaller then itself. This I think would fix alot of the current balancing problems in between Pachy, Teno, Carno.

[wheat cove]

Carno

• It is supposed to be the fastest predator, it's made for running long distances, yet the stam seems to run out quite fast and takes a long time to regen. Some adjustments to the stamina usage would help make it the predator that it should be.
• It also seems a tad bit underpowered. This animal would cruise next to prey and slam down it's jaw taking off chunks and causing serious injury and bleed. I don't feel this is represented quite right in the game.
• Pressing E for me, the button to eat and drink, doesn't seem to kick Utahs off also trees no longer let you knock them off, so you have to run around and take it, which doesn't seem very fair. I even set a macro to test and it didn't kick them off. I suggest holding down E, instead of having to multi press E, would work better as well, hold it down, kicks them off in a second or 2 and causes the utah to crash for a moment like when a Utah misses you or falls off normally.
• When chasing a Utah I could not catch any of them, they seem to run the same speed as Carno? Again with something like this it's a long chase and many maneuvers which drain stam and with barely any regen from walking you just run out and are more or less dead at this point. Utahs seem to have much better stamina which is the opposite of what should happen. Utah are ambush predators, so while being fast they aren't out to run a long distance after prey, but should have the fast motion when sneaking up on something and charging it from short distance.
• The get up and go, from walking to run takes too long imho. The carno should get up to speed fast and imo should go from run to full speed almost instantly so as to surprise prey at closer distances.

Thanks.

[glad urchin]

Nerf the speed of pachys standing charge. It should lose a lot of momentum when it stands upright like that.

[sweet rivet]

yo maybe make slam tail slam endlag longer so if a teno misses it can properly punished? this could also add more skill to the animal while making kick be used more if you arent sure slam can land

[mighty quiver]

maybe remove deino cannibalism on diet since you're adding courting... have yet to not be eaten by my own kind on sight.

[indigo ice]

I have a few simple balance changes for Tenotosaurus and Pachycephalosaurus.

Tenotosaurus

1. Reduce the duration of tail slams stun by enough where the animal can get one less tail slam off during the time their opponent is stunned.

2. Increase the hitbox of the kick. Many times it should hit but doesn't.

Pachycephalosaurus

1. Reduce the duration of the stun when hitting a successful charge attack. It is too long for what pachy is supposed to do, fracture and run.

2. Reduce the stun on the alt attack. This move should not stun or stun for a miniscule amount of time.

With these changes, Tenonto and Pachy will be more in line with the rest of the cast, as they will no longer be able to effectively one shot carnos and Utah's respectively.

[sweet rivet]

increase pachys stomping sounds (they are waaay to good at ambushing for a herbivore lmao)

[timid plank]

So um if I got knocked to the ground. Why does it take my Utah like 5 seconds to get up. And certain angles of getting hit. Your just dead. https://youtu.be/ZHFb1eBJWl4

[brittle tulip]

utah needs a serious buff, even with a a pack at your back, you're still screwed when tangling stegos, carnos, and tenos.

[thin monolith]

for the deino, would be nice if you could make it where we can eat our own, but not ones we killed. If we killed it then we cant eat it. I always find dead deino in the water or near the bank and just want to eat it.
Edit: i am keeping this here under principle, i dont like deleting things because i was wrong. But to explain what made me think this was i currently thought crocs couldnt eat there own. that they received repercussions for doing so. My mistake.

[thick ether]

A variety of things that could help deino have more food options and interactions outside oasis other than cannibalism and fish instead of making it even more agonizingly boring and restricted:

•return riverbank wallowing even if it is less effective than mud pits
•properly spread herbivore food around the map more evenly and/or remove the mud pit at oasis so it isn’t a cancer hotspot
•reduce the weight values of terrestrial animals while they are swimming
•reduce the shallow area of oasis if you keep the mud pit
•fewer large shallow water sources so people are more likely to drink from deep ones if they do not have the patience or time to travel
•give deino's bite some fracture damage
•add more debris, especially floating debris, to the large water sources like swamp
•make ai visit the waters edge periodically
•lakes and wide rivers with small islands which i'm sure are planned anyway

[thin monolith]

As a full grown deino, i should be able to latch onto a stego head when its drinking water. Literally should be a one-shot if i grab the head.

[wheat cove]

Denio Diet

Deino
Pachy
Teno

Elite Fish
Utah
Stego

PT
Turtle
Carno

[quartz oriole]

Ok so.

I was thinking about how Deinos can't drag things like Stegos into the water which makes sense however I believe if that Stego goes into the water and enters the swimming animation I believe that should then enable the Deino to be able to grab and drown the Stego due to the Stego not being able fight back properly.

Pretty much a non Floridaman jumping into a River with a mace trying to fight off a Gator...Not going to end well.

[stable elk]

Leg fracture should be easier to get and last longer, but large animals that have leg fracture should no longer be stunned, this would discourage pachys from continuing battles after inflicting serious injury (which is what it was meant to do, fracture and run).

[glad urchin]

Stego shouldn’t be able to use it’s tail attack in the water

[sweet rivet]

can you make it where you cant die from tail hits or limb hits maybe...

[river portal]

Carno has really been nerfed too much - they need more stam than pachy, or else pachies have too much of an advantage, especially since pachys are rarely alone. Also, you should not get a body fracture from pachy hitting your tail.

[lavish tundra]

Either add more mud pits, or make another way to Wallow because as a pachy if a Utah pounces you your basically dead with no way to heal it with the scarcity of mud

[next silo]

Honestly, make stego head hits like a 4-5x multiplier. I mean look how small it is, realistically it should be more but this is a game. but still, a stego shouldn't be able to stick it's head inside deino infested waters without any consequences. Also makes stego hunts easier for utahs and not having to abuse pounce and pounce only.

[slender zealot]

So basically a stego, a 6 ton weight animal can swing so damn fast, but a carno got such a nerf to his agility, make the stego swing much slower for balance. its a damn apex it shouldnt be so fast in his attacks, and the attacks do 1000 damage. Makes no sense that it can swing so fast.

[dense matrix]

Currently, if you want to play as the most effective hunter in the game, you play Pachy (with the arguable exception of particularly experienced Utahs).
It's almost optimized specifically to hunt other players down. With enough stamina to run down both Utahs and Carnos with an attack capable of effectively 1 tapping both, it's... odd, to say the least.
So I have a few suggestions to keep it more within the lane of a defensive yet powerful low tier.

1: Significantly increase it's sprinting stamina drain whilst increasing it's trot speed to compensate for it's reduced travel capabilities.

2: Completely disable Pachy's ability to stun from behind as long as the stricken animal is above Pachy in weight, logistically a sprinting animal shouldn't be entirely halted because it was hit by blunt force from behind, I would hope the general public would agree with that.

3: Add a charge up sound for when Pachy uses it's ram, it literally doesn't have a need to be stealthy WHEN it's attacking, the utility is lost on it, and other charging animals that specifically RELY on their charge for hunting do have a rather audible charge sound, it's silly that animals like Carno have a charge noise when Pachy doesn't, it unironically makes Pachy's ram better at ambushing than Carno's... which is again, silly.

4: Aside from stationary downward head slams, make Pachy's headbutt require a chargeup instead of being instant upon tapping RMB. Stun is still applied equally regardless of charge level, stun currently doesn't scale, and until then compensations need to be made to prevent abuse. One of these methods could be to tie the fracturing and stunning potential of ram to the chargeup.

Pachy players are never going to be banned from hunting or ambushing, it's just an occupational hazard of the genre, but it's monumentally easy and facilitated by Pachy's mechanics and stat balance, which it honestly shouldn't be considering it's power.

[modest glacier]

Stego's tail should be nerfed/slowed down in water, since realistically the force of the water slows things down
Or make it not be able to swing in water at all

[thin monolith]

on top of that, if there feet are covered in the water they should be slow in general, have you ever tried to run in water that went up to your shins.

[gentle tartan]

why can a teno stun me with a leg kick when im in front of it?

[lavish tundra]

Carno needs some of its stamina back, it’s horrendous how it runs out of stamina in a short period and doesn’t even have a good trot to make up for that. Sure it’s the fastest thing but that doesn’t matter when you can just be endurance hunted easily with a broken scent system.

Either buff it’s trot, or give it more stamina (not as much as it used to have) but just enough so I’m not stopping every 30 seconds

Ps:The walk animation looks so stupid how it tipi toes

[finite epoch]

Realistically stegos shouldn't be able to swim at. A 6 ton herbivore would never be buoyant it would just plummet straight to the bottom. There's already shallow points to cross in the river systems for them to walk across. They're already hulking tanks so yeah it should take them longer to get around the map anyways and that would spread stegos out a bit because of the time it would take them to get to certain areas on the map.

[dawn geyser]

Utahs should pounce onto the dino where they land on it. Not teleporting to its side. And teno SHOULDNT be able to tail slam you while your pounced onto its side.

✅ = yes

❌ = no

[next silo]

here's a thing for stego that I reckon would be good, consecutive swings cost more stamina over time, like jumping in legacy, obviously not AS punishing, but still pretty punishing for spamming.

[timid plank]

You should be able to tell how much stam a stego has based on the noise of it's swing, Teno attacks, Carno charge etc give more hints other than just the calls. Because most of the time I'm not calling when I'm being hunted

[glad urchin]

Pachy should have to get decent momentum before being able to fracture. Like it shouldn’t be able to fracture if it headbutts right next to you

[slim fractal]

give dryo 15n bite force so I can kill baby carnos

[wise nexus]

Make health ≠ weight

[twin breach]

Give deino a deathroll as an attack so it can actually kill stuff bigger than itself, cuz like it's an apex and should hunt such aswell. You grow for 5h just swimming around in water, eating fish and once ur bigger u just kill smalls and mids in the most boring way u could ever imagine. Maybe give deino a tug of war mechanic if it hits a leg of smth. bigger for example, but make it so that it can hit critical spots against every species. Against stego, the head for example when it goes drinking it will put its head right into the water but smart stegos will position themselvers correctly so it's difficult for a deino to kill them with a death roll. Also improve the water ways, the rivers are way too small and you're limited to only a small place of the map. Center swamp back in U2 was smth. great idk why it got removed. Or just make deino a mid tier with reduced grow time and size cuz it can only hunt mid and small tiers anyways.

[vocal helm]

deinosuchus should have no head damage multiplier, or atleast a very reduced one
i mean, its head is armoured

[rocky ember]

make utah able to swap sides when pounce

[brittle tulip]

nerf stego plz

[magic shale]

to make it easier for peteras to get elite fish they should have a grab ability for elite fish ,hatchlings and schooling fish but make it different compered to the crocs lung along as the hatchling is under 90kg it can be moved but for stego hatchling it dose more of a stun by tripping them over its a good thing to add so i thing devs should add it. edit can u guys tell me why its not an good idea plz

[round orbit]

I have a problem with packys knock down system, this needs to be re-worked I feel this is over powered, and has no counter play if pulled off, I was a utah eating a packy body while another packy hides in the tall grass waiting to hit me with his charge, while this is taking place your are down for 5 to 6 seconds, with in this time all the packy has to do is whale on you then you're dead, no counter play I feel the stun needs to be reduce.

[wise nexus]

Alright lemme reiterate this. Bring back the health values that are separate from the weight values.
The balance in update 3.5 was better because of the independent weight and health. It made it so larger dinos didn’t take decades to kill as smaller dinos like utah.
For example currently a fresh spawn deino or stego can survive multiple alt bites from a utahraptor just because it weighs a lot. But back in update 3.5 it would take less amount of alt bites to kill them because they had a different health and weight.
The individual weight and health would make it so the weight can be increased or decreased without effecting the balance drastically.
Of course to account for this change every dinos bite force would need to be increased to match the health values better.

[cloud acorn]

This is less of a suggestion to the devs but more so to the community, although I do think the devs also need to hear this. I've been seeing a lot of people suggesting certain dinosaurs should be forced into a particular biome or niche just so they don't interfere with other playables. Some examples I can think of are people saying Bary/Sucho should be reduced to beach or coastal dinosaurs just to be safe from Spinos or Crocs and Cerato and Magy to be forced into the forest so they don't get bodied by Carno. I call bullshit on suggestions like that as forcing someone to only play in the shittiest biome of the map just to be safe from the plains bully sounds extremely unfun and would make that dinosaur not worth playing. Yes, every dinosaur should have a biome it works best in and a biome where it's at a slight disadvantage, but you shouldn't force 90% of the roster into the jungle just so Carno can have a playground. Balance Magy and Cerato in such a way that they benefit from playing in dense forests and jungles but don't make them instantly crumble like a piece of paper the moment they step out into the field. For example, give Magy an attack that can parry the Carno's charge so it doesn't instantly get flipped like a pancake and dies when a Carno sees it, make Cerato really agile so it can dodge a Carno's charge and then it beats the Carno if it decided to go into a face tanking match. There are ways to balance creatures around each other without putting a giant wall between them so they can never interact. I've even seen people argue that Utah, the thing that has half its dietary needs in the fields should be nerfed so it's not as good in the plains anymore and rather it's made into a forest only animal. It's getting ridiculous with some of these suggestions.

[stoic cave]

Perhaps when pachy knocks you down you could do some rolling around. You’d still be on the ground and vulnerable, but the pachy would have to do more then just hit you down then wait for you to stand up.
You would get a chance of escaping from perpetual stun locks without deleting them altogether

[lucid ether]

Both for game balance and more resembling real life: if you've ever watched nature documentaries, it's not always a "body slam" when animals hit each other.

Usually what happens is animals roll and skitter away to safety. They take the blow, they're often slowed down (in game locked in a recovery animation), but if I am hitting WASD, my Utah being Pachy slammed will scrounge to get away with a bit of a delay in its momentum. That way you're not a sitting duck waiting to die. You have some way to do something that has the potential to increase your chances, while not completely removing you from the consequences.

SUMMARY;
Pachy hits a target and bowls them over, or makes them briefly stumble or limp (depending on size)- but unless the Pachy is large enough compared to the target, they aren't completely immobilized.

[lavish tundra]

I have a few suggestions for balance that could be useful

1.Carno needs more stamina. Not as much as it used to have but I don’t wanna be stopping every 10 seconds. Scent system is broken and impossible to escape threats meaning that speed is for nothing

2.Pachy needs to deal less overall damage. Keep fractures the same but it shouldn’t be able to kill Carnos with such ease

3.Body values need to be raised it forces players to go on Mass murder for food cause food gives so little

4.You know how you encourage players to move? Don’t make plants give so much food. You can fill two Tenos with a single plant. Lower the values so when food is gone they’ll be forced to go elsewhere

[dense matrix]

Carno needs more stamina, straight up. Especially considering the monstrous stamina pools of the other playables (which I honestly believe is fine aside from Pachy's stam, which is borderline endless). But carnos basically can't escape a pursuing Utah pack under any context, tracking is incredibly powerful and the mobility options for carnos is limited by comparison.
Currently stamina barely plays a factor in escaping carnos anyway, they have the speed to chase down most targets and 90% of failed hunts come because prey reaches an inaccessible location instead of outstamming the carno.
Carno just has the speed necessary to compensate for that, but when it comes to carno's escaping threats, their incredibly hampered in doing so.
Utahs have far more stamina than carnos and pachy's make their stamina pools look like a droplet in the ocean, it is very easy to track down and overcome carno's stamina regeneration rates by simply catching up to the carno when it rests, as either of these animals. This is only compounded by pachy's ability to significantly reduce the carnos movement speed, rendering it helpless and at the attackers mercy. Due to agility and acceleration constraints (which are fine) the likelihood of a leg fracture is high.
Increasing carno's stamina fixes a lot of issues for it and doesn't particularly effect it in combat very much, the rate of decay for charge can remain the same this is only in regards to sprinting stam.

[onyx granite]

fix carno charge hitbox, tail hits are bs!

[feral verge]

Deino should have bonebreak on stegos, would solve alot of current issues.

[steel umbra]

Pachy is way too weak and has too low health and bleed. One charge from a carno is all it takes to kill. One pounce from a utah is all it takes to bleed out. Please buff pachy so it can actually be enjoyable to play as

[wheat cove]

PT's

1. Seem to draw downward more than previously, recommend putting it back how it was. Seems like a 5% angle when gliding, worse as baby.
2. Using stam when gliding? Minimal, but still, there are birds that can glide all day long.
   2a) Suggestion, idea, when at higher altitudes, less degradations' of flight and less stam usage, to mimic upward drafts until that is actually implemented.
3. Using more stam when flying? Stam utilization seems to have been increased a little bit too much.
4. Left and Right movements using A and D are way too direct.
5. Liftoff, takes too long from standing position.
6. Eating and then trying to take off, imho, should be instant canceled response in case of predator scare. RN, you're essentially stuck in the ani too long and if jumped it's hard to even run off let alone fly away.
7. Maybe increase bite damage to 20.
8. Ability to swallow fish while fly ing or bite sized chunks of meat.
9. Still think it would be cool to allow PTs to fly over water similar to using RMB to get a fish to collect water. Sometimes you need a quick sip here and there.
10. Still think PTs could have other dinos as prey, such as utah, carno, deino, because you can kill babies and can also scavenge off dead adults.

[lavish tundra]

Here's things I'd change:

Almost universal: Make everything that swims lighter(1.5x lighter)
Hydrodynamic animals(Teno / Cera) only get their weight reduced 0.5x
Semi-aquatic animal stay with their normal base weight

Tail Fractures:
-Turning is worsened slightly
-Tail attacks consume more stamina
-Tail based attacks deal less damage

Head fractures:
Only head based attacks get reduced damage

Utah:
-Make the dismount keys-based instead of camera

Teno:
-Reduce tail slam damage to about 150-175 dmg(from about 270-280)
-Increase kick dmg and better the hitbox, also give kick medium fracture dmg

Pachy:
-Fix the bug
-Increase the headbutt miss recovery abit

Stego:
-Make different jab types deal different damage:
*Stego frontal jabswing: 1.25K, 10% stam cost
Stego side jab: 900, 7%-7.5% stam cost
Stego back jab: 750, 5% stam cost

Carno(this is a bigger one):
-Get rid of the god awful growl when charging
-Increase normal dmg back to 200
-Make the drift a little bit better
-Change the alt bite to a headswing that only STUNS but doesn't knock down(yes, even smaller things)

Deino:
-Make it possible so when you grab something you can just walk backwards
-Make it be able to stay underwater for atleast 15 minutes
-When idle on the surface, make only the head pop out instead of the whole back
-Get rid of the fucking diet

Hypsi:
-Make spit a projectile instead of hitscan(only in fuction, not in effect)

[wheat cove]

Starvation and Dehydration

How is it that your animal can die from both in like 2 hours IGT? A person and probably animals can live without food for like 4-8 days, and without water for 2-3.

• Increase time it takes to die from both please. I'd say a fair increase would be by 3-4x what it is now.

Puking

• Increase total food consumption before puke to 110% across the board. Allow stomach to go past 100%, turn stomach gauge different color when you go over 100%, 105% Yellowish color as warning, 110% puke and sick, change sickness color to either red or puke green.

[whole gorge]

11. Allow them to catch crabs while flying, by pecking on them.
    Right now they just die and you have to land to pick them up.

[frigid sentinel]

well, i just got my first ever full grown carno to 100% and i got killed by a pachy immediately. idk why they are so strong but they need to be rebalanced. he hit me once in the body and i went completely blind and couldnt get up for a second so he got another hit, and i still couldnt get away. then i think the second hit broke my leg so i couldnt run. i was immediately toast when the pachy saw me and for a fully grown adult carno that's just.. ridiculous. he wasn't even half my size.

[wheat cove]

YES Also I think the ability to pick up a rabbit and fly off with it would be nice too. What might work is to implement the rmb schooling fish mechanics for when you approach something on the ground to grab it. Might work. Hold RMB, as you get close to ground release to grab something.

[mighty ermine]

Before nesting comes out and Hypsi potentially gets growth, i think Hypsi could use some improvement..The spit mechanic itself is very hard to use for a couple of reasons.

1. You cannot use it while running. You can aim while running, but once you fire at your target it makes your character stand still- completely ruining the potential for efficient use when you’re being chased by something. If you were being chased by a utah, for example, and you spat at its eyes while it was behind you- you’d die because both the spit didn’t actually land and because you now stood still long enough for the utah to catch you.

2. The spit doesn’t land on moving targets. If something is moving faster than a walk or trot, it’s incredibly difficult to actually land your hit. You also can’t aim where a target is HEADING, because it has to have the “lock on” before it can actually hit. You can only hit a very slow moving or stationary target with Hypsi. It’s impossible to hit something that’s moving like it would in a hunt. If you aim at something that’s running directly behind you and fire, it won’t hit. Even if you’re directly in line with your target, the spit won’t land because the target is moving.

Allowing Hypsi to use its spit without having to stand still to do the animation would make it more capable of using its spit to escape predation. Fixing the hit boxes with the spit, as well as allowing us to fire where a fast moving target’s eyes WILL be would make for much more efficient use. Hypsi’s best tactic right now is to try and hide in the brush. It’s only use right now is to troll until it becomes easier to use its main defense

[glad urchin]

Slightly increase carno’s turn radius because right now it can’t really do anything but make a full stop to turn even a little. I know it’s not flexible but it should still be able to turn. This would fix a lot of its problems.

It’s charge should also have a chance at body or head fractures. At least for small tiers like Utah or Pachy.

[magic shale]

Dieno should have bone breaks 1 their bite force is over 250 N which means it should be shattering bones also would fix the stego 1v1 problem as dienos have a chance to immobilize the animal and kill it instead of needing 4 adult dienos to kill one stego and give lung a chance to bone break but only for animals it can grab.

[subtle gulch]

Utahs should be able to drag juvie deinos on to land, if you click and hold on their tail maybe, and it becomes a tug of war determined by who weighs more and who has more stamina, this will make it so utahs don't have to risk jumping into the water after a deino, or rely on finding baby deinos on land

[wintry jackal]

food proportions are really weird. the amount of food given to you should be determined by how good the "victims" diet was. ex good diet gives you 5% great gives you 10% and perfect gives you 15% food

[glad urchin]

Lower Utah’s turn radius because it moves like it’s not 6 feet tall and over 700lbs

[languid fiber]

I have to post my obligatory stegosaurus balance idea.

The issue currently is that stegosaurus players can simply run up to anything that cannot run from them, aka deinosuchus, and turn around and throw it back for lethal damage. This not only looks stupid, it feels stupid, and highly exaggerated. The damage of the tail is super high and the damage it takes is super low, and so It can "butt tank" fully grown deinos to the point where massive gangs of deinos form simply to compete with a single creature that has the audacity to be a part of their diet.

I'm going to steal some ideas and concepts from different sources, so if you see overlap, it's probably because I plagiarize.

1. Stego tail "velocity" damage.
   Stegos tail damage should range between around 120% and 40% of it's current damage based on angle from the back. The more forward the swing, the higher the damage. This makes butt tanking less viable and puts more emphasis on strategic shots. This shouldn't greatly impact their effectiveness against their primary threat of utahs, hopefully.

2. Regional injuries
   To keep this short, tail ligament tears should exist and be caused by very strong attacks. This should weaken the tail swipes. This should go for tenos and any other tail weaponizers.

3? Simple stat reductions. Simply lowering numbers would work pretty well. Less health would be a good one that would increase the volatility of the playstyle, attracting more skilled players who don't overly rely on butt tanking strats. With the right mechanical changes, though, I doubt the numbers need to be fudged.

[next silo]

Here are 2 things I think would be better for deino/stego matchup:

Reduce damage of stego tail swing INSIDE of water, I mean I feel like this is basic knowledge to know that water would probably slow down the tail swing of a stego therefore making it do less damage, also fixes the fact stego can demolish deinos no matter where they are (unless swimming but you'd be stupid if you do that). this will also fix stegos sticking their heads in water and deinos not being able doing shit about it.

Make deinos lunge on heads of dinos do more damage. Let's say deino is lunging a dino that isn't half it's weight, instead, I think it should be able to latch on the head of the dino, making the dino have to hold e, to make it release, the longer you hold on, the more damage it does, sort of like pounce but it greatly effects stamina of both sides. Again, the HEADS of dinos.

[glad urchin]

Increase baby carnos speed since it cant outrun any predators at that age. Even others at the same age can outrun it.

[open plank]

One solution to nerf stego without nerfing his health? Just let it take even WAY more damage on the head. Realistically it would only take one bite from deino to kill it, but for gameplay reason we are not going to nerf it that much. Maybe balance it in a way that deino will only need 4-5 bites on the head to kill one stego

[novel sail]

Please don't silence dinos' vocals at low health when they makes 4 calls. There is nothing worse than being separated from your pack a few paces away and getting ambushed, taking massive damage, and being unable to scream your lungs out for help because low health or low Stam makes you sound like Regular Sized Rudy from Bob's Burgers.

[glad urchin]

I feel like Pachy should get a damage or fracture nerf because right now they bully everything in game with no repercussions. I find it very odd that it can easily solo a carnivore more than twice its size with practically no effort. And I don't think it should be able to run, or, at least not run as fast while using its head smash attack.

[potent chasm]

Please just make dryo fun to play. Have not seen one dryo player since you added Pachy

[safe torrent]

I'm putting this plead for optimization here because despite running on a computer that runs most games on max settings with smooth fps, on medium settings evrims runs at like 28. The worst part is I swear to god the game detects when I am in a dangerous situation and manually lowers my fps limit to 6. I have not had a single combat scenario above 15 at most fps since I got back into the isle about a week ago. Normally it drops to around 6. It's unacceptable to let an update release with these "optimization improvements."

[grizzled patio]

Some time has passed since the update, and during this time I managed to grow 6 adult crocodiles and countless small ones.
Therefore, I have some complaints about the quality of crocodile life.

Firstly, the deinosuchus diet. I think that adding diet to deinosuchus is good for balance, but the current diet is terrible. At least the fact that I filled the teno/pachi/ptera diet at 20% just once. Tenontosaurus was already a rare visitor to the water, and I saw them only twice in the whole game. The rest of the time, I ate a little pachy once an 4 hours and got my 2% diet. As a result, one of the diets cannot be filled at all if you are more than 50% growth.

Secondly, the food goes too fast. Dinosaurs almost do not approach rivers. And fish gives not very much. Therefore, if there are more than 2 large crocs on the map, then you will starve.

The third. A pond in the south. Oh my God.... The person who made this location apparently just hates crocodiles. Mb gator ate his dog. Or he's a stegosaurus. Anyway, because of the shallows it is impossible to hunt dino normally, and since everyone drinks in the ponds shallows, almost no one else approaches the rivers. Welp, and stegosaurs, who guard everyone else and do not let crocodiles eat corpses. That is, crocodiles cannot hunt either in rivers or in a pond.

As a result, I starved to death twice on an adult crocodile. Crocodile is my favorite and I really like to play it. But now it is simply impossible to complete a diet or not be hungry. I hope something will be done with this in the next update or croc ll be unplayable as it s now.

[hazy zinc]

Utah should pin Pachy with its pounce. The force of a 450kg utah leaping onto a 500kg pachy at a high speed with all of its limbs making contact would certainly shove that rat of an animal to the ground. Besides, Pachy pretty much has a one shot move against utah, plus an attack that knocks it down. No reason for utah to be guaranteed death if it gets hit while pachy still has a chance to run screaming to its teammates for help if it gets pounced.

[night pagoda]

Stego tail swipe stamina cost should be massively nerfed.
Why? If a good stego player makes it's tail swipes count, he will stay alive. But as of now, all I see are stegos that mindlessly swipe their tail and still win every fight.
My proposition is not even a direct nerf to the stego. I am just asking to require "some" skill to fight with it.
Having less potential swipes will make it so stegos think twice before going and camping bodies for fun. These would make packs more dangerous to stegos(as it should be) so they would have to think twice before angering a whole server.
Stegos as of now are like irl hippos, they can bully anything and everything without consequences.
Stegos are more agressive than carnivores as of now because they can kill anything they want without consequences and from a balance perspective its stupid, the game just gives a huge middle finger to whoever is not playing the stego.

[weary glade]

just my thinking
[ nerf ] [ stego ]

• nerf move ment animation
• nerf stamina when he miss attacked
• nerf cool down animation and delay animation before they attacked
• nerf maxspeed stego form 25 to 20
  but he weight/stamina and dmg attacking its already good

These will allow the players to play stego Always think before fighting other creatures they defend themselves rather than attack other creatures more than they are now.

you guys unnecessary to read down this

[ Utahs ] if you want to seem more big pack utahs like before just consider this

• buff bite force form 50 to 65 [ to some people like to bite more than pounche lol ]
• buff movement speed turning like 3 patch 3.0
• buff max speed runing form 45 to 50 KM
  orther stat bleeding rate growing up its good now
  proof 3.5 stat patch
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wt0jREyWvJw&t=1322s
  [carnos ] they have a really noob stat really really noob for who play this game at 2000h.++ they'll see this problem is
• buff bite force 200 ( they should to kill smaller tear list dinos like eazy well not like now )
• buff STAMINA They are real runners ( i hope i don't have to explain )
• buff max speed runing form 55.5 to 60 KM
  weight diet its good for him now 🙂
  but orther deino like tenos/pachy they are cool now

[stray mesa]

Give juvi and sub pachy a speed buff

[wheat cove]

Diets

• Suggest no negative effect from empty diets.
• Suggest 1 main preferred food versus several for each category.

Deino

• Carno
• Elite Fish
• Turtles

Carno

• Boar
• Teno
• Utah

Utah

• Deer
• Goat
• Deino

PT

• Schooling Fish
• Rabbits
• Frog

[analog yoke]

when I hope on the isle load into a na server and go to oasis and see stegos and only stegos I just get off there is no point to play the game as a herb are carnie when there are like 9 plus stegos anywhere I just find my self getting of because I cant hunt anything or nothing will hunt me. But when there is 40 plus full grown stegos nobody can do anything all stegos do is sit there kill each other and that's about it I have played stego many times and I fined myself getting so board nothing attacks you but other stegos I don't know why you guys added stego when it has no predator could be deino but the devs lowered its bite force so that it would not be a beast and I think that is great but then why add stego and give it the most powerful damage in the game it can one shot every other dino apart from other stegos and deinos that animal can do over 2000 damage a head shot they can 3 shot other stegos and 4 shot deinos and deino can barley get them have health I would just love to know who thought this was a good idea

[night pagoda]

stego is stupid op
needs a nerf HARD
put your head in a tree and nothing except another stego can kill you
not even carnivore packs can safely hunt you
6 carnos? ez
15 utahs? 97% bleed
5 deinos? lets see which one is the ballsier
Do you dare tell me i am not allowed to oneshot everything i feel like while being able to tank half a server? - stego mains probably
and if you SOMEHOW kill one(jesus id be surprised if you got to this step) there will be a 2nd stego denying you the food
because there always is one
might as well rename the game to stego's playground
even stego players say its boring for fucks sake
every post talking about a stego nerf gets a gazillion ticks, wonder why? i do. Devs dont seem to get it tho...
im probably talking to a wall but man i feel so good after saying it
unless the comunity gets its shit together and keep those in charge on check nothing will happen

game used to have one bad animal but now all the roster except one are bad animals

not playing stego?
MASSIVE SKILL ISSUE

[eager cliff]

I second this motion. However, a real close look would be a fight of a juvi pachy vs a juvi Utah.

That is a fair match, the reason is the juvi utah can safely jump off a pounce if the intention is to do so making it dangerous for the pachy to chase. Had an interesting interaction and the pachy was not an idiot. He just could ram spam his head while he was bleeding.

The issue with the adults is that adult utahs have no where close to the amount of stamina its juvi counterpart has. And the adult utah cannot safely jump off a pounce before a pachy dime turns and kills the utah with 2 head smacks.

Either buff the bleed of the utah vs pachy, make the jump distance safer, or reduce the turn radius of a pachy when its charging its head. Those are my recommendations but most people are smarter than me and can definitely come up with better solutions.

I just notice life as a sub-adult utah is much better QOL because of the stam issues. Youre 2/km slower than an adult but who cares, you can run forever.

[spice stratus]

Oh, yes, I forgot to add. Thank you for making this a non-killable death machine! I'm tired of dying on deino because of such destroyers who are not afraid even to fly in and beat Deino underwater. How I am burning from your unbalanced realization of the idea that teeth are just cracking. I hate you so much for that.

[scarlet finch]

Is there any reason stego is the way it is? What is meant to kill it? Soemthing that's not in the game rn? SO why is stego in the game or not currently nerfed to balance the current ecosystem of utah and carno, so frustrating.

[smoky anvil]

pachy needs to be nerfed a lot a re-worked a bit generally speaking. Currently pachy is the most effective hunter of the game (followed by teno), which makes no sense for a low-mid tier herbivore (and also for a mid-high tier herb as teno). Not even as Utah, but also as adult carno in a 1v1 fight with a pachy there are good chances that you die (whilst should actually be almost a 90-10 in favour of the carno). Funny enough that many people complain about the fact that teno consumes stamina with tail slams or that pachy consumes stamina with head butts, they seem to omit that as carno you basically drain all your stamina with a charge (which doesn't even work half of the times and is very easily avoidable coz you cannot manoeuvre during charge) and as utah you have a huge stamina drain when pouncing. Particularly, something should be done so that unless you're a stego you should be scared about face tanking another adult dinosaur (this is valid for all dinos including carbo, utah teno and pachy but it's already true for carno and utah and needs to become the same for teno and pachy)

[wise nexus]

Amazing suggestion for all of you complaining that stego is too op and needs a nerf. Turn around and walk away from the stego. And it those saying that they can’t walk away from a stego as deino you can just swim away and not fuck with them. Deinos aren’t supposed to be running on to land to bite things. They’re ambush predators and they have their right click for a reason.

[dense matrix]

I think the funniest part about stego is that the absolute best animal in the game at taking them down (and I say best with heavy quotations as it's rare to see if ever) is Utah....
Allow me to illuminate you all as to the pure comedy that which is this dynamic:
Utah is an animal that takes on larger targets than itself in large groups via it's special ability primarily: Pounce
What does pounce do? Well it latches the Utah onto the flank of the animal to deal high bleed damage.
Creatures can buck to reduce the stamina of the utah at which point the Utah must dismount by leaping off the animal.
"How is this funny" you may ask.
Well Stego has:
1: The only dino in the whole damn game with an attack specifically designed to guard it's flanks.
2: The highest aoe of any attack/dino in the game currently.
3: The highest damage of any dino in the game currently.
4: The second highest HP pool.
5: The second highest blood pool.

Stego is arguably THE worst target next to Anky for Utah's to theoretically hunt... with the exception of maybe Kentro.

Now, where does that leave us? Who else can currently challenge that which is the god of war stegosaurus himself?
We have Carno.... I don't need to explain why carno is irrelevant to stego right?
In case I do, carno is a much larger target than utah, dies to a headshot, bleeds out to a body shot, and requires a bare minimum of 17 headshots to take a stego down.
What about deino? That sad excuse for a tadpole can't even bring a stego down to 60% on a good day, I hate to say it but it's true.

So why.... is stego.... even in the game right now. It doesn't have reasonable/consistent predation options.

If you were absolutely positively dedicated to adding a largish herbivore alongside deino, why not one of the larger hadrosaurs... you know, something that doesn't have a sweeping 1 shot attack? Nerf stego or replace it with something more functional, it's a blight on the roster in it's current state.

[night pagoda]

Adding to the post above(which is on point if you ask me)
Stego deserves to be op, its an apex herbivore.

What is happening as of now is that the thing will win any battle with 0 skill, it is a right clicking simulator.

Solution? Make it so you have to think about right clicking:

• Make the tailswipe cooldown timer longer:
  It wont have as much dps as so bully deinos and smaller carnis will have a chance to bite between tailswings.
  It makes the oneshotting attack a double edge sword, you might one shot your enemy or be open for an
  attack yourself which is understandable with such damage potential (great power great responsability).

-Nerf the stamina tailswipe cost:
Makes it so one has to think if the enemy is actually going in(making the attack baiting actually viable).
Makes it so big packs that should be a threat to a stego actually are a threat, if half the server hates
you(because you swim to kill deinos and deny bodies to fuck with other), you should die.

Makes a stego less of an endurance fighter that shouldnt anger entire servers with impunity.
Makes it so it requires some skill to bully others as this doom bringing walking fortress.

Like srsly how can that thing swing non stop for minutes and still have spare stamina??

[pale sedge]

bro ok utah needs a voice chat. I keep hearing devs say "power is based on coordination!" but we cant talk during a hunt because of the dumbass chat system, which is why everyone freaking DIES. Utah needs a raptor-exclusive voice chat for fight, and I was just 1 shotted with full diet points by a pachy that was about 1/2 my size. what. the. hell. he was half my size, I was at full health, with perfect diet, and my juvi utah gets 1 tapped by a hatchling that is VERY VISIBLY smaller. plus my friends keep getting killed because pachy and just keep hitting u while u r down. utah needs to be able to switch sides while pouncing, get a voice chat, pachy needs a slower grow, and a bigger headbutt cooldown. plus U might wanna give utah more stamina if it gonna be this weak. LAST THING is that utahs need to be able to spawn on utahs because it is so hard to find where another utah is even as adult, like srsly u need to be able to spawn on other raptors so u have a pack. u might want to give spawn invincibility for like 1 minute cause I keep getting spawnkilled right after I spawn, even spawning in fresh. Bye now I hope u save ur game.

[frosty cedar]

I see a lot of angry comments about stego, teno and pachy, and most of them can't offer any other options. I propose to make the game more balanced, due to the fact that the more often you spam with abilities, the slower the blows (animation) will be and the more stamina is spent. I remember UTAH from Legacy, who spent more stamina with each subsequent jump. As for pachy, then (in my opinion) there should be a nerf of a charged strike, since when pachy runs, he shifts the center of gravity by bending down and it is easier for him to run, but as soon as he starts charging the attack by rearing up, he continues to run at the same speed. It seems strange to me. It's also strange that 100% utah runs slower than 95-99% utah, how is that??Finally, I will say that the pounce of a newly born utah and 100% utah is the distance that they overcome and one total (maybe it seems to me).

[delicate wren]

I have another tiny solution to the steg issue, make it’s head easily fractured compared to the rest of its body. That way pachies can just debilitate aggro stegos. Maybe make it like 5 or so hits for pachy, so it isn’t just a steg counter. Also, if you do decide to give other Dinos fracture damage, such as croc bites and tenos, they will also have a chance to bully the stegos back.

[onyx granite]

extend the knockdown immune window for alt bite, add diminishing returns to alt spamming pachys, fix hitboxes.

[sly seal]

half of this entire feedback channel is just "nerf stego" in some way, i wonder why...
increase stam cost/ buff its predators or something

[violet axle]

Fun fact: Skilled Utah packs used to be able to fight Stegos, Tennos and Carnos in update 3. Used to.

Utah since 4(?) gets one shot on dismount from a Stego if it can do basic math and send the Utah’s stamina to the shadow realm with buck for like 3 seconds.

Carno (not sure if it still stands) can whip around with its crane neck and chomp Utahs who dismount if it’s not running around like a chicken with its head cut off.

Aim tenno’s tail slam right n you can stun lock Utahs on dismount too.

Y’know what caused all this? Cause Utah’s acceleration got picked up n tossed away. So honestly, all it needs is that update 3 Utah rock acceleration back. Not some fancy increased bleed or damage. (Though a small bleed buff would seem nice for pounce.)

That or an increased dismount distance. It would be nice to see skilled utahs actually be effective again. Bite greedy Utahs got equally screwed in update 3 if they were spamming pounces, going in for cocky battles, etc.

TLDR: Utah gets screwed by everything mostly bc of dismount distance. It really just needs update 3 acceleration back or an increased dismount distance. Ty for reading.

[grave obsidian]

basic advice everyone has said already: make stego take more damage from head based attacks. pretty sure if a deino clamped onto a stego's head irl, it would probably result in a rip for that stego.

for people complaining about it's damage. it's reasonable (though it's range is ridiculous, like how is it hitting crocodiles with a tail 10 feet above it that makes contact with it's back [the most armored spot]. realistically stego would trample a deino on land not pat it on the back)

stego is just too large of a herbivore for the game's ecosystem right now. look at legacy, no one thinks stego is op there, and it does very similar damage. one shots utah, two shots carno. it's the same creature. the difference?? it has predators.
there are no large game hunters ingame right now capable of taking down a stego realistically. so why is it in here, lol? it's a small game meta then there's just an utter titan of a herbivore in there. stego doesn't belong in the ecosystem as it is. there's nothing made to hunt it, so of course it's way too powerful.

[lavish tundra]

I think a lot of people seem to complain too much about stego and just say straight up nerf it, too good an animal.

They don’t even realize why it’s this bad in the first place. Stegos hitbox is busted so it can hit places it shouldn’t be able to. Aka the exact front of its head and the distance a Utah dismounts. Also there are no damage values for a frontal swing. The tip of its tail shouldn’t be dealing loads of damage when I’m mostly in the front of the creature.

Besides that Water needs to be deeper and fixed so stegos can’t walk in them, and make it so if a stego swings in the water it isn’t as powerful and moves slower (how a normal swing in the water would work)

Now just take that and see how good stego becomes. Sure body guarding is a problem, but that’s for all herbis. A small fix for this is just remove the stupid stamina drain on body dragging it basically makes it irrelevant

[muted geyser]

Stego, Teno, even Pachys can easily 1vs1 Carnos, the biggest carnivore on land in the game as of now.
What I have been experiencing is that instead of being in fear of being hunted and killed as a Herbivore, they easily bully and take on groups of Carnos, Utahs and Deinos even in the water, because nothing can kill them.

Carnos and Utahs need to rely on killing each other, eating dead Carno/Utah corpses or AI for food, because even as a group, you can not take down a Herbivore without dying. A Stego can easily kill 6+ Carnos solo and is rarely alone in the first place. Even Pachys can 1vs1 a Carno, being half of the Carnos size.

Instead of Carnivores hunting Herbivores for food as it should be, Herbivores run you down and are far more aggressive

[cosmic eagle]

NITPICKING and IDEAS, nothing specific

-Make starvation having your stats worsen, stamina pool decreasing and giving you debuffs before making you take damage, intead of instantly starting to take damage, despite your animal doing very well untill this point. -Dehydration can possibly stay the same, lack of water kills you quicker irl so it's ok

-With animals like Stegosaurus that have a "laying on the side" resting animation, allow us to have both sided animation. This could be done by mirroring the animation i guess...? only for immersion and detail really

-Give the animals "juvenile animations" for when they're juvies. For instance, Stegosaurus and Carnotaurus can sometimes look wierd in Juve stages since they share the "weighty" animations of their fully grown counterparts. I could imagine a Juve stego having faster turning and being more agile than it is now, giving that it doesn't weight tones. Juve Carno's eating animation has got the animation of weight on it, which looks great on adults but on a juve that weights a few kilos it looks kinda bad

-After nesting is already in game, make it so that pterosaurs are unable to fly as hatchlings, therefore they have to 100% relay on their parents to bring them food.

-Give herbivores MORE MORE MORE reasons to compete and not make mix herds. Herbivores in modern world don't just herd with other spieces and protect them. Dinosaurs should be the same, not all vegan friends till death type crap.

-and final, add stress system. this could make players care for their playables naturaly, having them not do quirky stuff that might ruin immersion and atmosphere, here is an example: herbivores get stressed out around corpses (combats bodyguarding), injuries add stress and debuffs (picking fights wisely)

TY for reading.

[glad urchin]

I feel like stegosaurus should be constantly eating or grazing. I feel like this would give them something better to do than camp a body or something.

[novel sail]

Delet Stego.

No, seriously, remove it from the roster for now and release it with Allo. It has no business being in the game at the moment. All it does is graze, mindlessly tail swipe at anything, and guard corpses and mudholes. There are no counters for it, at the moment.

At least Deino is shit when it leaves the water. Stego has no downsides whatsoever.

[wintry marlin]

Add some sort of disincentive for carnivores to kill for sport when theres too many dead bodies the game lags in the area, and a bigger disincentive for herbivores to 1 kill other herbis for sport and 2 stay around/guard corpses. Nothin grinds my gears more, being someone who plays both herb and carni to have a carni kill you or to see them kill another player on top of another body, with multiple bodies nearby without challenging for it, and as herb, being or watching others being killed namely by pachy more often in my personal experience, for no other reason than "haha funny, i killed the stupid insert herb baby name" it is a 0/10 on the fun scale

[spice stratus]

I'm writing a message to developers again, hoping for changes. The map killed all possibility of hunting for Deino. Thanks to the Oasis and a couple of other places, Deino is no longer playable, now you can't feel that satisfaction when dragging under water. Stego also affected the entire ecosystem. I personally followed his influence. Firstly, where there is a herd, there will always be a herd. Which is not vulnerable. The population of each species suffers from this, as players are no longer interested in the stupid gameplay of eating bots. And Deino, in turn, due to the lack of living creatures in river places, only kill each other. Because this is the map that you have just made, thank you.

[delicate wren]

On a more serious note from my last suggestion, the balance in the game needs to be changed a lot. Everyone is complaining about getting 1-shot by stegos or stun locked by tents and pachies. So, I have thought of a solution, but it would take some major rebalancing.

Fights need to be slowed down a lot.
Let’s take pachy for example, you spend about 2 hours growing to be able to defend yourself.
Then you just get rammed by a random carno you didn’t see and instantly die. Fights like these are not very rewarding for the victor, but the loser now loses hours of progress for 1 mistake.
This happens in other games, such as rust or tarkov, as well, but those games reward you a lot for winning and you can get your progress back quickly by taking it from others. However, killing someone in the isle makes you keep your progress, not gain, and makes them lose all of theirs.

That is why fights should be longer in the isle, to allow people to try and run if they are losing, and 1 mistake does not ruin everything, because you will make a mistake eventually.
I’d suggest leaning more so towards the raptor v pachy (in ideal balance) in pace. If a raptor pounces a pachy, the pachy now has to catch the raptor before they bleed out. Meanwhile, the raptor has to keep attacking to keep the bleed going. This allows both sides to make a mistake once or twice while keeping them locked in combat.
This also will make humans and other 1-shot animas much more dangerous and impactful. Humans can kill dinos quickly but are killed quickly, which adds more to the Dino’s fear of humans and humans fear of dinos.
Some ways I would suggest doing this would be by increasing health, decreasing stam cost on combat abilities, and decreasing damage. All around just make it so that you have a chance to make a mistake or 2 and recover.

TLDR: Fights are too fast for how slow progress is, so they should be slowed down a bit.

[queen solstice]

Some of these have been stated so I may be repeating other ideas but:

1. Make auto pickup optional. Mid fight- it can cost you a fight if someone throws their body into the mix.

2. Having something in your mouth and swallowing it locks you in animation. Why can't you move and swallow? Either allow us to cancel that animation, or let us move and swallow.

3. A full grown carno having to eat 4 utah bodies to get to 100% food growth, while also managing other diets is downright annoying. The game forces you to constantly hunt. Either change the food values or increase hunger time.

4. 3rd diets for utah and carno. Carnos 3rd diet of dryo and deer is really unrealistic seeing as no one plays dryo- and the other is dependent on you finding deer ai. Sometimes you see a lot, other times you see nothing. Also 15% food per deer for carno means that you need to constantly find one to have all 3 diets- which is unrealistic to say the least. Utah doesn't have it as bad- but killing baby deinos can be tough depending where you look- I'd say change it around to where pachy and teno aren't the same diet and let it be pachy be the third diet. Also dryo... no one plays it...

I may not have the correct values or diets down, but the idea is still there.

[viral oriole]

man tenos are whack. 1 tail slam stuns you for another 2 tail slams, and a sub adult just needs 5 to kill a full carno. such high dps with such low stam consumption. its ridiculous. either the damage or the rate of tail slam needs to be nerfed, it’s just a smaller version of stegos spamming tail swing with no consequences

[sudden drum]

First of all the Map (Rivers and Ponds) have to be changed a lot. Rivers have to get wider and deeper in my Opinion and the Ponds have to be removed completly. Its a Hardcore survival Horror Game there shouldnt be any Safe zones or such things like the Center Pond/Lake or the Shallow water. And my second Problem is that its just weird that 50 or 60% Deinos are faster in the water then Adult Deinos. I know many players complain about cannibalism. But the Cannibalism rate is higehr again because the second safezone to drink from and because the Rivers are way to narrow. And smaller crocs can just run on land to hide from bigger crocs. Yes i know Adults are normaly also faster on land then Juvis but dont have that much stamina. You just have to play it smart and hide in bushes thats the good thing about being small. Stamina and Stealth( able to hide in tall gras or bushes) is the advantage of small crocs. So pls make it a bit more realistic again and make ADults at least faster in the Water again.

[stoic cave]

nerf stego to fit with the current roster. It'll get be powerful again later.

[rocky ember]

please make adults utahs 2 shot for adult pachys its kinda dissapointing when u get one shoted

[lavish tundra]

Dryo is legit only made for a food source I understand that their prey and the burrow system is being worked on but Dryo needs a buff to be more playable.
It feels useless as if you guys didn't care at all towards the actual gameplay progress of it and this is why we see more pachys more stegos more tentos because they have a chance to survive.
This is full grown Dryo and Utah's Status In the game right now.
Bite Force = DMG || Weight = HP

Dyro Adult
Bite Force: 10
Weight: 120
Max Speed: 46.8

Utah Adult
Bite Force: 55
Weight: 450
Max Speed: 46.8

Why such a massive bite difference Dryo has less dmg than a Pteradon, 5 Dryos can't kill 1 utah . If you can also see the massive HP Difference is insane.
There is a way to fix this however To make dryos more dangerous, because I've also realized a Juvi utah can deal more dmg than a dryo when it hits a certain percentage because of how low their bite force is.

A: Buff Dryo's Bite force by a bit, as in 20 Could help them survive more from the Juvi's that reach that percentage where they have protentional to pounce and kill dryo. Giving Dryos a small upper hand to deal with the dmg being dealt but not enough to impact subs.

B: Buff Dryo's Speed increase to 50 Having a faster speed could help Dryo's potentially a lot due to their HP and Bad DMG at least they can out run their prey making UTAH or OTHER Dinosaur Species have to learn how to sneak up on Dryo and catch it off guard. Using their intelligence to possibly surround the Dryo.

C: Buff Dryo's Speed and Bite Force Giving Dryo both would help for its lack of HP making it being one of those dinosaurs where it really has to peck you and try not to get hit in the progress or pounced. Making it have the 20 Bite Plus the movement speed could benefit it being more playable and having a chance to outrun Adult utahs but still can get catch off guard if not properly used.

KEEP IN MIND DRYO DOESN'T HAVE AN ALT BITE! So it has no way to deal further dmg than what it does or any stronger way to kill something.

[sullen dock]

Pachy is to op it can almost solo ever carnivore there is in the game except deino.....

[muted geyser]

• A heavy debuff for Herbivores and Carnivores grouping with each other (stego with carno, utah with teno etc)
  a suggestion for that could be in form of a "fear" bar that slowly fills up and creates a tunnel vision for Herbivores/for Carnivores some kind of instinct/bloodrush that slowly fills up and makes you want to chase/bite

• A mild debuff for different species of Carnivores and Herbivores grouping as that is unnatural

[lavish tundra]

For this is what I think some diets for some upcoming herbivores/Omnivores should look like unless we get more things in future

Beipi
Lipids: River Bank roots (found near rivers)
Carbs: Red pond grass or other lake weeds (found in lakes)
Protein: small Fish, Frog

Ovi
Lipids: Radish Root
Carbs: Marygold
Protein: Eggs

Gali
Lipids: Sumac
Carbs: Agave
Protein: Eggs

Magy
Lipids: Coconut (could be able to slam against trees to knock them down. Then crush them with its feet to eat)
Carbs: Mushroom
Protein: Potato

Kentro
Lipids: Vegetated Oranges
Carbs: Mango
Protein: Pumpkins

Proto
Lipids: Coconut
Carbs: Mango
Protein: Pumpkin

Minmi
Lipids: Red pond grass/other pond grass
Carbs: Mountain Ash
Protein: Potato Root

Ava
Lipids: Sumac
Carbs: Melon
Protein: Mushroom

Homalo
Lipids: Potato
Carbs: Potato Root
Protein: Mango

Diablo
Lipids: Sunchoke Root
Carbs: Vegetated Oranges
Protein: Potato

Maia
Lipids: Marygold
Carbs: Agave
Protein: Melon

Oro
Lipids: Bannana (if ever added)
Carbs: Sumac
Protein: Radish Root

Taco
Lipids: Mushroom
Carbs: Agave
Protein: Marygold

[wheat cove]

Pachy

lmb = Bite only.
**lmb + alt **= swinging headbutt thing...
shift (while running) + rmb (hold) = head down, charge like a carno.
rmb (hold) (release to initiate headbutt) = head lifts, runs forward 4-6 steps and headbutts. No more of the running head lifted headbutt.

• Bite or swing headbutt won't break anything, nor should it knock things down same size or larger than it. Maybe set knock down to something 1/2 it's weight. Knockdown time for target animal would be minimal and or would just knock them back a bit.

• Head down charge would be similar to the carno's, it would use more stam 1/2 every 3-5 seconds of movement and is a more of a straight on hit with very little leeway left and right. Breaks legs, knocks down, causes daze, causes serious damage which will kill smaller targets like utahs and smaller. Knock down time could be permanent to death if small enough, otherwise larger targets would be knocked down for around 3-6 seconds.

• Raised head butt, standing still head to head would cause broken neck, will not knock things down and will stun them (impair vision). From side would cause broken leg and fairly serious damage, but no knock down and no daze. Of course this would be harder to pull off, for close range while walking or standing and could function like the deino alt+bite where it targets the direction you're looking. Uses 1/4 stam per attempt.

[lavish tundra]

All I ask is to make a tail fracture (which obviously varies from creature to creature) that simply just makes turning worse.

Also if you get tail slammed or charged on the tail it shouldn’t cause secondary effects like knock down and stun

[strange iris]

This is a "Carno is great where it's at but here's a few refining touches" sort of post.

I like Carnotaurus hunting speedy animals. As more dinosaurs are added to the game the diet options for Carnotaurus should be refined to include them and exclude others.

Most carnivores that are built for hunting large prey show it in their body plan. Carnotaurus, the Cheetah of the late Cretaceous doesn't really seem like a good fit for hunting herbivores its size. Large carnivores very rarely fight one another- and this holds true in the fossil record as well. Carno's relative, Majungasaurus (the cannibal) had a far different build for this with a broad snout and heavier body in comparison to Carno's thinner skull and more lithe build. Even in-game the risk vs reward is not a very favorable ratio. I don't enjoy 3 hours of investment being decided by who bites who first.

Their prey should be faster than every other dinosaur which is why I've always championed Utahraptor as being the best player prey option. The same goes for rabbits and deer. Right now, goats are only reliably found on one hill on all of Spiro. They don't run and they don't fight back- with other carnivores using them as filler to tide them over until they find their preferred diet. It condenses Carnos at Oasis where they're a problem for everyone.

Boars, being more widespread than goats along with not being exclusively found alongside food for Pachy would make them an ideal replacement for the latter as a Pachy will kill an adult Carno over 60% of the time. Sidestep Carno headbutt. Fracture legs. Done. However, this is not a Pachy problem. It's a Carno diet problem. Later on, boars could be replaced by faster dino AI.

Even so, the toolbox of mechanics Carno has aren't bad. I really just think they need a few diet tweaks to make them less of a problem in one area of the map along with stopping players from logging in, checking for goats / other Carnos and logging back out again as I've often seen.

[signal edge]

Hi, lately there has been many cannibal utahs. The issue is not cannibalism per se but that when a Utah pounces another the victim is unable to escape since they don’t have a buck or anything that gets the killer out. The result is always the victim gets killed. Is there anyway this can be fixed?

[hardy compass]

I would like to suggest to add an other predator like allosaurus as soon as possible.
I have impression carnos are too many. They need more competition to reduce their number.

[lucid ether]

Boosting because it's a great post. Utah packs used to regularly hunt Stego. High risk, high reward, and really fun.

Instead of hard nerfing Stego (outside of maybe increasing damage taken to the head), ask yourself why Utahs can't touch them anymore.

I do think Stego needs a higher skill cap than it has currently (the spam2win is real), but it's a multi layered issue.

[shrewd sorrel]

As we all know, mixpacking is a problem, and it’s hard to fix. One thing I’ve been thinking about is a “stress” mechanic that happens when herbivores and carnivores are close to eachother for longish periods of time. This “stress” could debuff many things the diet system debuffs such as stamina regen, health regen, growth, etc. One problem I see with this however is that it could lead to longer fights being ruined. I am not really sure how to fix this, but maybe you could reset the stress timer each time your Dino does a certain amount of damage to other Dinos? Mixpackers could avoid the stress mechanic by doing this damage to eachother, but this would mean that mixpackers would be weakened if they chose to stay together; hopefully making them easier to fight. Excuse my poor grammar in this post.

[rancid pilot]

the Pachy only gains respect. he's not designed to kill. He only tells the Carni: I'm not easy prey.
1 Carno can fight a pachy long enough to run out of stamina and then the pachy has lost.
but you don't attack 2 pachys alone either, that's logical ;)

the tenonto is currently the only op. nobody has as many attacks as he does. in addition, he also packs in well.

[thorny swallow]

I can only agree with Jacoby.

What is the relationship that the Pachy OP should be. He only has one attack to defend himself (ramming + ramming altattack) his bite is a laughing stock. and the only respect-giving feature he has will also be curtailed in future updates. mobility on 2 legs. In complete contrast to this, let's take the Tenonto as a counterpart to this one with its bite, claw attack + bleed, tail slam, and last but not least the kick with the hind legs (if you're not talking about openss here, please) xD you could almost think it's the Teno the Dev's favorite is like the warlock in Wow at Blizzard ^^° (vanilla) and the latter function, namely the hind leg kick, will experience a buff plus bleed damage with upcoming updates, as you can understand, in addition to all the attacks that Teno has even faster as already (in line with the tail slam) i'm just wondering why?? (Sarcasm on) I wouldn't be surprised if the teno would grow wings in upcoming updates. ^^ ( sarcasm end )

[delicate wren]

Although I do love playing pachy, the headbutt is a bit overturned. You have speed while using it, crippling damage, and you can keep rearing up with no downsides. Nerfing it’s turning radius while charging is a step in the right direction, but it will not fix all the issues. Let’s take teno’s tail slam for instance. It has much higher damage, but stops movement and costs a lot of stam. This mobility nerf to pachy will only slightly match the drawbacks that other dinos have on their abilities.
So I recommend making a small stamina penalty for rearing up as pachy (but make the headbutt itself cost less stam so it evens out) or a cooldown between each time you rear. That way pachies have to think before rearing up, instead of just spamming rmb until they get in range to hit. This will also keep the power of the hits the same (which is in a good spot) and make them hard to land. This will make the headbutt a more defensive move, and make chasing a crippled predator or hunting predators a lot more risky.

[rare shard]

No one: birds are completely normal better nerf them. A while later birds are shit better nerf them again..... birds being completely useless, getting a group of adult birds together to ambush a baby dino with 3 adult birds and failing due to lack of damage.... well dam better nerd birds again. Maybe stop nerfing birds...

[hazy zinc]

Why was juvi carno's stamina gutted? It's a juvi and cannot DO anything. Please change it back, we don't need to punish players for spawning in. I don't know if any other juvies have ALSO had their stamina gutted, but if any of them have, please revert those changes.

[merry hare]

aight first impressions... map is amazing, way better. music was cool for the 4 minutes i heard it, out of the 4 hours i played. teno is janky, its kick feels so weird but ig its cool. all the juvies have way less stam. which really hurt the herbis that have to run across the entire map to get their 3rd diet. there was about 300 carnos and massive carno mega packs roaming around. teno vs carno 1v1s are... idek. i hit a carno with kick, then turn to claw. normally he should turn and run, but he was taking so little damage. he just stayed and face tanked me until i had to run and hide, thankfully a stego saved me. it takes alot of tail slams to kill them, not sure how many but a carno small enough to get pinned by my adult teno took 4 tail slams to the head and didnt die, infact it kept fighting. that seems legit. carnos is fun, but really strong. i killed 2 full adult tenos because my turn is so quick again and i can just bait that sh*t. i mean, it's an update so atleast it's something, and i havent fought enough to see the full balance, but idk. i guess we'll see

[white tulip]

First of all, this update was one of the best ones we had in a while. Bye, bye Oasis, won't be missed.

**Things i noticed while playing juvenile pachy to adult pachy: **

• The new run of Pachy is *AWESOME *
• Nutrients now last longer, this is good.
• Pachy stamina while running is very comsuming, would be nice to decrease its rate a bit, i cannot run more than 100 meters without wasting 80% of my stam, which is very important for survival.
• Cocos are very good located, i was wondering if they would spawn literally on the sand or near the coastal, well, it turned out good!
• His nerf was well deserved, other dinos can take him now (unfortunaly the stamina being so high cost gets pachy killed most of the time)

[dense matrix]

Why in the hell was ptera nerfed? What is the point? It's already completely irrelevant...

Anyway, give ptera more stam if you're going to make it entirely non interactive aside from being a food source, at least make it leisurely for travel... oh and why doesn't latch regen stam already? There's no balance involved in this, Ptera isn't going to then land in vulnerable locations because it lacks stam regen on latch, it already doesn't, and never will.

[thin fable]

Teno in new patch is very weak. Tail slam hits like a wet mop, the hind kick is easier to land, but very short range still so you end up getting bitten anyways. stam no food. the carno can charge quicker and aim it easier. Currently teno due to nerfs and power creep because carno is so strong now, ti's almost not worth playing.

[rancid pilot]

Well that's a New thing.
And now He has to play different.
If devs Change something like that, then it has to be truth: maybe He was too powerful.
Like i said- everybody make different experiences. And maybe Now we have to learn play teno from the beginning again

[hollow sonnet]

teno needs a bit larger blood pool. takes a less than a handful of short duration pounces to bleed one out

[lavish tundra]

Carno is perfect, and people complaining about teno nerf are just mad cause now they need to be good at the game to kill carnos

[lavish tundra]

SO! Balance feedback and talk / suggestions!!

Teno:
Teno honestly is in an extremely good spot right now, love its tailslam nerf and kick buff. It makes Teno actually need some more skill to play now.
Of course you guys will have people cry and complain saying they are useless against Carno, but I honestly suggest not listening. People will just need to get used to not be able to simply spam tail slam and win.
The only thing I suggest is to switch kick and tail stamina consumption, now that tail is more of a utility rather than a killing weapon.

Carno's changes are all very nice, nothing to say here

Utah:
Utah is also in a good place, now that Stego is fixed they can actually take them down

Stego:
Nothing to really say..I think Stego is fine

Deino:
Deino is pretty okay, but rivers still actually feel super shallow

Pachy:
Pachy to me has it off the worst imo. I think the turning is unnecessary on the charge ram.
Now with Carno's buffs, the bug fix to attack cancel AND the turning makes Pachy kind of get slaughtered by a Carno. Leg fractures are still pretty inconsistent, body fractures def help a little bit and head fractures are still good.
My issue is with the turn. Hitting a Carno now is pretty damn hard and doesn't allow you to be able to get a second ram in due to the turning. The reason I bring up a second ram is: Unless you get a leg fracture / head fracture on the first hit you are going to be essentially doomed since now the Carno will simply bite the crap out of you.
So, all I would do is revert this back to pre-patch

[light magnet]

deers are crazily fast, im starving to death chasing one across plains as a juvi carno, they instantly take off to full speed too

[indigo ice]

Very simple, small change to teno.

Reduce the stamina use on slam to the same as kick. Since tail slam isn't the huge, long ranged, heavy hitter anymore, it using 10% of your stamina feels wrong.
Simply put that in line with kick and it will feel much better.
Kick doesn't need a stam increase since, even though it is now the heavy hitter, it has much less range than tail slam, so tenos kit is much more balanced.

TLDR make slam use a little less stamina, from 10% to ~8%

[eager depot]

carno is overtuned revert his changes in some capacity, a good teno basically cant do anything to a good carno

[molten bay]

Teno is currently a bit too weak, even a good teno doesn't stand a chance against a good carno or even an AVERAGE carno as the comment above me says, the fact that you now need 10 SLAMS to kill a carno is absurd, and the fact that the 10 slams are all you got makes it even worse, your tailslam is the only reliable way to stun carnos without receiving some damage unlike kick which has a bad range so you have to recieve damage for hitting.
From my calculations tail slam does 180N, and kick does 300N.
This can be fixed by:
1: reducing tailslam stamina cost
2: making tailslam stun a little longer so that you can land a few kicks after stunning them
3: buffing teno to how it was before which shouldn't be a problem now because carno got a buff which would make it better at hunting tenos
4: teno gets a speed buff that makes it capable of running away from carno which it currently can't fight (which Ik is impossible to do cus carno is meant to be the second fastest land animal)

[terse atlas]

Stop persistently making Pteranodon less fun to play with every update. Their diet is a joke, if you didn't want a flyer in the game you shouldn't have added one. They currently exist to be food for scavengers and sometimes used to explore if you're willing to wait the 30 minutes while probably dying before then. You don't have to make them good in combat, just make them good at anything other than dying. No one cares about the latch feature, it's useless because there's STILL no Stam regen for it even though there's no possible way you guys haven't heard the overwhelming vocal majority that agree it should give Stam regen. It seems every few months you pick a carnivore to make useless and don't stop nerfing it until no one is playing. Also, putting ptera on utah's diet means ptera officially has no ally, and nothing to synergize with in the ecosystem since it offers nothing on its own.

[jade drift]

You either play carno or you die to a carno with this update, rap is trash now as well.

[plain laurel]

We need another larger carnivore to stop the carno meyhem , Another larger carnivore would split the carno playerbase and make gameplay more interesting for other creatures too.

[rain vault]

I feel like trying to grow a slow herbi is a bit too hard with this new patch, you constantly need to be on the move and use stam to travel great distances only to encounter a lot of carnis and ultimately getting easily chased to death, this happened a lot to me recently (not to mention I literally didn't met any dino other than carnis, so I can't get a herd to protect me). I like the new system of having to go on a trip for food but I definitely cannot seem to pass through the juvenile stage.

[last grove]

All I have to say is currently Deinos oxygen timer is way to short to hunt properly, we need at least 10 minutes of oxygen to properly setup an ambush or to stalk someone. You can barely swim a section of a river underneath the surface of the water without already being at half oxygen.

[vital plaza]

teno is pathetic right now. i thought we'd honestly learned from our previous patches- ones where they were downsized just to be rammed into oblivion or a carno bites them to death while tanking several tail slams. i get that the tail slam can be problematic, but teno is a brawler- and punishing it for using its most powerful attack and defense feels so absurd.

kick and claw do next to nothing- and now their tail just hits like a wet spaghetti noodle while eating away stamina. the fact it takes around 10 tail slams, if not more, to kill a carno is just pathetic and ridiculous. kicking and clawing aren't much better either, as a carno can just sit there spam biting you to death while tanking blows.

revert your changes youve made for teno, theyre not viable right now. theyre just a walking meal for carnis and no one wants to grow after hours of grinding for food just to be eaten because your dino lacks any real strength and defense. this balancing for teno just isn't it and it wont ever be, if theyre as pathetic as they are now.

[merry hare]

wait wait wait...

people complain saying teno killing carno in 7 body shots with the tail is too much.

people call for damage nerfs. some people saying nerf it to as low as 150 damage... for 10% of its stam....

devs listen... and they nerf tenos damage...

'OHHH SHIT EVERYONE LOSE THEIR MIND TENO IS GARBAGE!!! IT GETS BODIED BY CARNO!!!'

who could've seen that coming?
nerfing tenos tail to do as much damage as carnos bites back fired??

noo... cant be...

teno can still kill a carno. but i went carno, grew super quick. and proceeded to body a herd of 4 tenos alone. teno isn't too bad, im just saying.

anyway revert all the juvis stam back to their really good state. juvies have to basically constantly run so they shouldn't be this bad. they were perfect before.

[gray bone]

Dont revert the teno changes. Instead add some fine tuning.

Let me explain.

From a logical standpoint. Yes. Teno's tail should do much more damage than its kick.
But from a balance prospective, it makes perfect sense.

Teno's slam is much longer range and applys stun. Teno's kick is much shorter range with more damage and bleed (and I think shorter stun)

Teno should use the tail to stun from a safe(ish) distance and then kick to get max dps. While still staying in danger if it wants good damage.

What I think should change is the slam's stam cost should be lowered to reflect its utility purpose. Also maybe allow teno to use claw attack in the water. Idk it just doesn't make sense that it cant use its front limbs to attack dumb carnos and utahs that chase you into the water. This would keep teno from risklessly stunning carnos and doing insane damage for almost free, and would also make teno an absolute BEAST if used by someone who uses all of its kit.

(Also who shit in your cereal that day devs? Why you gotta torture everyone by making juvi phase even worse )

[hazy zinc]

So about those herbivore food spawns. They're not all in one place anymore. Great. But now it's the opposite extreme. Herbivore players have to (as juvies, mind you) traverse quite literally the entire map to find their food to grow at a tolerable rate. It'd be pretty cool of this was addressed.

[queen solstice]

^ Great point- Juvie herbis are expected to be in the same places as their adult counterparts that for the most part- out compete them. As well as dealing with carnivores that are quite frankly out of their league. Juvie herbi diets should be completely different to their adult counterparts. Which should be in the same general area. Whether that be for the first 25%, or 50%. This would help lessen the carnivore influx since- you know- carnivore diets are easy? The herbivore faction was always going to be less popular than the carnivores- however, the current diets kind of cement this.

[thorny swallow]

so after a longer insight I am very satisfied with the update

All in all, the matchmaking now feels a bit more equal.... this includes everything ( Teno nerv, Pachy nerv, Carno buff ect.ect.ect. )

Evrima is on the right track with a great balance👏

[night pagoda]

Instead of balancing stego they make It unbearable to grow....
Incredible, just incredible.

[short mantle]

The best suggestion would be to have the actual developers playing the game for once, possibly streaming the game every once in a while for the community. As players we see things from our own gameplay perspective & experience - possibly a gameplay experience from the developers would be for more unbiased, bring the community together & create room for improvements based on their experience rather than an angry herbi/carno player... I've been coming back patch after patch and it only seems to make patches based on the community feedback - "Utah too strong? Ohh let's do a damage debuff... Carno struggles with charge attack? Ohh let's make the charge attack even stronger and improve turn radius so it's totally OP... Teno slams too hard? Let's debuff that as well..." Weekly streams featuring the developers playing the actual game would certainly provide more of a hope for the future balance updates as well as an improvement upon other mechanics.

[robust marlin]

Ptera:

Like some of the updated sounds like for eating. Sounds good.
Speed, maneuverability, and stam all feel pretty good and responsive. Sometimes almost too good/responsive. (I'm not saying to change it though)
Stam drain is much, MUCH improved in the juvie stage. Now I can actually fly up to ledges and other safe spots without running out of stam Juuuuust below a landing spot to crash and fall to my death. Don't change it. Juvie Ptera stam drain is in a good spot.
The amount of food you fill up on both hunger and nutrients feels like its in a good spot, especially for juvie ptera.
Diet options feel right for its species although Hypsi are pretty difficult to hunt down as ptera (I tried).

The bad part of Ptera is the changes to its weight/HP and ability to take damage. Ptera was already getting one-shot by raptors with a simple bite/claw attack. They really didn't need to be squishier, but now some random asshole Ptera can just land next to me while I'm resting stam and kill me in two quick pecks with no chance at all to react. That's not balanced, it just broken.

[lavish tundra]

I just want to say for the guys that complain about tail slam nerf that what you are supposed to do now is stagger the carno with the tail slam and then use the kick, you think teno is weak and carno is op only because before, teno was op and carno was worse, it didnt make sense carnos had to run from tenos, now carnos make tenos run like i has to happen.

[dry turret]

instead of buffing teno and making people complain about how teno's overpowered again or nerfing carno, give teno a few tweaks that won't break balance

1: Body fracture with the tail slam

the tail slam does very little damage, just giving a stun, the stun is nice to have but the damage is redundant,
maybe give the tail slam a body fracture? I think about 2-3 tail slams would be enough to body fracture a carno and 1 enough to body fracture a utah

2: Fix the kick hitbox

I feel like a lot of people would appreciate it if they didn't have to be morphing into one with their opponent to deal damage with the kick

3: Give the claw attack more bleed (and maybe more damage)

if a teno were to fight a carno and it landed the tail slam, it could then scratch the carno a bunch with its claws, dealing heavy bleed that'd probably be enough to make the carno more weary in the fight
I add the possibility of increasing its base damage as well because I'm not exactly sure how much damage it does, but it should do about as much as a carno bite or more

[analog kernel]

Food spawns are way to far for fresh spawn herbis.
It would be nice to travel from west grassland to south swamp for food
But then again only for adult herbis but
Fresh spawns should have it easier and food scources should be closer for them also nerfing them did not help at all.... ive only seen 2 tenos so far at swamp for the past 2days...

[next silo]

I honestly dont see why carno got a buff, I was testing carno out and it just makes ramming a bit too easy in my opinion, maybe I have to test it out more but ramming a teno is just so easy now especially with such a big hitbox. Also, teno tail slam damage apparently only does 180~ damage? someone said to me that it takes away around 10% of carnos health. which is ridiculous. it should be 300+ damage in my opinion, maybe not stun as long, but... think about it, carnos bite is 175 and it is soooo spammible. for teno having 180? for 10% of stamina? 10% may not seem much but it is a RIDICULOUS amount for around 180 damage. again APPARENTLY. if this is false, ignore this.

[wheat marsh]

Servers are full with mega packs of carnos right now! If your not going to add another big carni for a while to combat this then give utah its old bite and pounce damage back so they can at least have a chance to lower there population and hunt the carno this is bs how do you think this is a better balance?? You made carno faster and turn better than before when they were already op and you nerf teno, so now nobody plays them. Carnos are runing around killing everything that moves. look at the photos from NA 1 its carno paradise, that group of 15 carnos (they are not all in the photo) just killed two tenos in seconds and didnt even eat them because you made there hunger better too. Im sorry but you devs are honestly shit and balancing this game it just keeps getting worst like do any of you even play your game? And what now we just wait months for another balance patch and watch server population slowing decline again...? smh

[shy crane]

With pachy's nerf I feel it should have alot more stamina, its not able to spam ram like last patch and its food is waaaay too separated, now with garbage stamina it takes a good long while to get from one food to another if you want to reserve stamina to fight off danger

And with ram being more risk then reward i think it would be fair to allow them to keep moving when they miss a ram

[heavy cradle]

Map balance for Patchy gameplay:
The mud ravine has coconut in it. As a Pachy, I've fallen to my death running to it a few times before figuring out that the meat I smell is from other Pachies doing the same thing. It is a really bad experience to get a perfect diet, 100% growth, then die falling in the ravine.

There needs to be a ridge that you cannot go over that surrounds the ravine and maybe some added slopped access points throughout the length of the ravine. I've found one access point to the at an eastern river, one at some western grasslands, and one really hidden spot in the woods around the mid point (very hard to spot). Maybe that is enough entrances, but something needs to be done about the leap of death on the rest of it. FOR NOW, BE CAREFUL TRAVELING NORTH/SOUTH BECAUSE OF THIS RAVINE in the NORTH CENTRAL part of the map
I have the same problem with getting to the beaches in a lot of areas and I'm still trying to figure out what the best routes are that don't drop me off a cliff and break my legs.

Also, I feel that the best food route for Patchy limits the area to mostly center and east sides of the map. Going to the west coast for coconuts leaves me too far away from the SE swamp for Horned Melon, so I usually path from SE swamp (for Melon), center (Agave), then ravine (for coconut) -- which seems like it limits the ability to explore the west much.

TLDR: Thick shrubs I can't see past before ledges with drops that kill you is EVIL. Patchy foods are spread in a way that is too limiting as to how I can traverse the map. Maybe another Horned Melon location could fix the later.

P.S. I've already learned the areas around the ravine, but it took way too much time and wasn't fun... almost as fun as getting stuck in the map somewhere without an /unstuck command... thin the shrubs so I can see the ledge at least

[pale sedge]

maybe do something about the atrocious mixpacking? I mean me and my pack will be hunting a teno, and then a stego joins the battle and we get destroyed from behind by pachys. like srsly the only thing we can hunt at point is babies because of all the mixpacking. Basically all carnivores are effected becuase carno can't 1v2 tenos, can't 1v1 a steg, and can compete with pachys just the same as the raptor. So what do carnos do? hunt raptors. this could be fixed bye making each dino have a separate diet that spawns in very different places and is rare so the herbis like stego and teno would have to establish territories in a sense, and especially pachy needs this. there needs to be certain areas the pachy diet spawns and only enough to support like 2-3 pachys. this would spread all the herbivores out. also teno needs to be less OP, this can be fixed by slightly lessening its health and changing the high damage tail slam to a tail slap with low damage and high knockback. This would make teno a more defensive playstyle like what it should be, and solitary, since it can 2v10 raptors quite well. basically teno would win a fight by outstamming the raptors, and not killing, so contrdicting what I just said you could instead raise the health and stamina but drastically lessen attack damage.

[dense matrix]

Unironically remove the stam cost on Dryo's dodge, maybe people would actually play it if they could spam their useless silly ability like Hypsi can with spit. (Yes I know it consumes food, but guess what, grazing makes it nearly instantly return).

#UltraInstinctDryo

[glad urchin]

Make other carnos fill 2 carno nutrients to encourage them to eat eachother. It’s like population control without having to buff or nerf anything.

I just think it should be encouraged greatly that carnos should cannibalize eachother instead of forming large groups. Maybe give it more of an appetite too.

[slender zealot]

Nerf juvi and hatchling stego, i got killed by a 30% stego as a full grown carno.

[weary glade]

if you dint have any plan for added new biged carnivore for reduce the population carnos just buff other dino ( especially utahs bc they have to fight for food conflicts. ) for fight with it🙄
It doesn't matter if they have to create pack or not they cant do anything if they stay alone and this game show me to learn something that is " If you want to play utahs you need to call your friend in discord to join with us or buy this game for play with you and your utahs'll be good for fight but wait.........listen to some people they like to play utahs with just 1-3 people on them group bc they just want fight with only bigges tear list dino if you want more funs with utahs just made it like patch 3.0 and you'll seem the balance for it
thats patch all herbivore reduce a pack and thet stronged carnivore as stronger too but 80% carnivore fighht with carnivore and that have 50/50 for dying or finish hunting.
and member orther herbi need to buff too*
and member just buffed spining and turning for utahs they dint want to get more DMG they dint want to get more speed or stamina but they need just a >>>Fluency<<<

[mortal basin]

reduce carno turn rate to legacys

[lavish tundra]

So after playing for a good day and a half. Here’s what I can say:

Carno: I think Carno itself is in a good spot, all I would really do is just give it a little bit more stamina

Teno: still getting used to mainly using kick but it does feel like Teno and Carno have an even matchup. Instead of bleed the kick should do slight fracture damage so it’s giving the Teno a better chance against the Carno

Stego: almost non existent (good)

Deino Still feels too easy to grow so maybe reverting deino to how much food it needed before

Everything else is pretty much fine

[terse atlas]

I don't know if this was directly intended, but I believe the design of cannibalism balance is commendable compared to what we previously got.

Because of the buffs to perfect diets they are almost a sure way of escaping most cannibals who are either desperate for food or mixpacking which results in not paying attention to diet.

In every instance I've had chasing or being chased in a cannibal hunt since this update the player with the perfect diet always wins/gets away. The diet buffs are getting to a good balanced medium where they are useful without being drastic stat changes

[pale sedge]

HEY WHAT THE FUCK????!!!!! I GOT CHARGED AS A HATCHLING BY A FULL ADULT CARNO, BUT I SHOULD HAVE BEEN FULLY OUTSIDE OF HIS RAM HITBOX BECAUSE I WAS LIKE 6 FT AWAY FROM THE TIP OF HIS HORNS!!! NERF THE RAM ATTACK IT BASICALLY IS AIMBOT AT THIS POINT. THERE WAS ALSO A BIG BOAR DOWN LIKE CARNO IS TOO OP AND ABLE TO DO IT ON TOO LITTLE FOOD NERF PLS. I WAS A FUCKING HATCHLING RAPTOR AND HE WAS A SUB!!! edit: this was probably the same carno that made about 8 utah bodies in the same place. it was carno based on the pattern of the bodies. either mixpacking, which needs to be stopped, or carno is too op. either way carno defs needs nerf

[smoky anvil]

I am with you on this (even if carno grwoth time remained the same and it's still about 3 hrs more less). I think carno is now a bit better than before (honestly not that massive difference people are describing), but I think that some action on carno was due because it was quite easily bullied by tenos and pachys and the turn radius was really too bad. Having said that, I think teno is still in agood position to put up a fight against a carno, and the fact that you need 8 or 10 slams (not sure as I still didn't play teno since the update) seems normal to me. Maybe it could consume a bit less stamina with tail slam considering that 10 slams now consume all of its stamina pool (which isn't very fair maybe). As always I think devs are trying various approaches on the way to find a better balance

[pastel shell]

Deino is a ambush predator. So why do you only get 5 minutes of oxygen to stalk/follow/catch something. Find myself more sitting in bushes next to the water or just on the river banks more and being much more successful then ever being in the water. I think 10 minutes would be a fair time, would have to update after the change.

[torpid steeple]

my experience since the patch came out is horrible, in my eye this was a huge mistake. the isle at this state is not a dino survival game it is a carno hunting sport game, since no other dino is rly worth playing at this state i runned around as hypsi to look around, yesterday i was trying - so far i could - to help a stego that struggled on a rock surroundet by around 7 carnos and 4 deinos, thats a joke, all you can see are huge packs of carnos hunting as sport, all that comes in their way, carno is way to powerfull with the buff it got and tenos to weak to counter them, no herbi is worth playing with this changes. you are forced to constantly run, you cannot even try to look at the map and all its beauty cauz your forced to run from top of the map to buttom and back top, i dont rly understand what the devs were thinking to bring up that changes, oasis was pretty, sure all kind of herbis gathered at this place cauz of its massive amount of food close by, but im not sure if it was a right move to delete it compleate - instead bring up more lakes and waterholes to make the people run around explore the map more to see at the beauty, shallows is a other point too why remove it ? youll see in nature all kind of different water sources not only deep rivers for deinos, shallows was a good place too and for deinos players it was a challenge to cross it, now as dirtpath it just looks ugly and plain. when you want this game more balanced this was not the right move, more like the opposite cauz herbis are quite non existent now. the comments i can read here are mixed, of course evry player whants the best for the dino heself plays, i think i would help if the devs would acctually play the game and evry dino themself like the normal players need to do it to get a first hand experience and see what the problems are.

[merry hare]

new juvi stam is cool, way better than before. Juvis should have basically infinite stam, and they do, so at least that was fixed quickly

i feel like the community is pretty together in the idea that herbivores should be easier to grow and weaker in combat. and carnis should be harder to grow and stronger in combat.

but right now, carnis are like 100 times easier to grow than herbis, as for utah, ptera, and carno, the diet system basically doesn't apply to them. you just eat when you spawn, and eat at around 45% and your cruise to adult

where as herbis are a fuckin marathon to grow. teno has 2 diets at south east. then it has to run across the map, across the most dangerous part of the map, just to get a growth that isn't 150 minutes long. and teno isn't even the worst herbi diet. pachy has south east, center, and the fucking coast? bro? its like 30km/h as a baby.

just make it so herbis only need 2 diet plants until 50%. you could even make it take 1 diet plant, and just have it fill up it's nutrients at the same rate as carnivores. have 1 diet plant cover all the herbis diets till 25-50% is just as fair as the carni diets atm. but 2 diets is fine too.

[glad urchin]

I don’t think that teno or carno need anymore buffs / nerfs.

The fact of the matter is that the center region was updated in a way that made it significantly more popular and viable to carno. Along with this, there are only 2 playable carnivorous dinosaurs in game. And theres less herbivores all around because they are significantly harder to grow than before.

So now we have an abundance of carnos with hardly any competition that run around in groups of 10. I think the simple fix would be speeding up the growth process of tenontosaurus and stego. Or, make their diets only impactful at 50% like carnivores.

You could also make carno fill 2 diets of itself

[lavish tundra]

So.
Making Carno a cannibal was a decision to stop them from overpacking. But the exact same thing happened in Update 3 where Carnos got 0 negative effect from eating itself so they could just be in massive packs, kill until one of them dies/gets killed and then just eat his body and continue the chain of mass-slaughter and then eat your buddy once they die.

But now they even get a benefit from eating Carnos, which if I'm honest, isn't big enough to warrent Adult carnos to kill each other and only babies. That, I believe was the original idea.
Only that this isn't the case and the game is now experiencing what one may call a "perverse unintended consequence".
This essentially means, you do something in order to stop/hinder x thing, but what you did now only further pushes the issue.

If you ask me, I believe carno shouldn't be a cannibal, as to stop them from eating each other once one of their buddies died.

It might just be me, but this does seem to work rather well with Utah so maybe have a try on Carno

[open plank]

Instead of making carno require more food to eat to satisfy, make his hunger bar deplete faster.

[lunar osprey]

Every other update it feels like you guys make carno spin like a ballerina. Every time this happens the whole player base picks carno and goes on a rampage in giant invincible mega packs. Either its turning needs to suck or it needs a nerf in another way to bring it down into a balanced state.

Give carno the same treatment as utah and make it rely more on its charge then just spam biting.

I would suggest a bite speed nerf but I dont know how other people would feel

[vocal helm]

make it so the stun creatures that are larger than 4t get when lunged be a bit longer, atleast long enough to let the deino do one bite before the target recovers

[sly umbra]

I guess you could put this here. Carno needs a competitor. The amount of carnos on every server is stupid and something needs to be done. Baryonyx and ceratosaurus would be great as they can compete with carnos for both player count and potential food or diet items, we've already seen some cera animations and work done on it so it doesn't seem to be much of a stretch to add that. As for bary, well we've only seen the concept art but it's not too big and would balance out carno numbers aswell as giving us another semi aquatic that could prey on smaller deinos potentially

[dawn hamlet]

The reason people weren’t playing carno before the patch wasn’t because it wasn’t strong, it’s because it couldn’t be used.

The pachy was so OP at the time that any herd with them was untouchable. Even going near them was impossible because pachy’s would out stam and hunt carnos down.

The update should’ve left carno as it was, as the issue with the pachys was eliminated when their turn and fracture was nerfed

[vital plaza]

no one wants to play herbi due to the high expectations for them diet wise. the moment you spawn, you have to run, CONSTANTLY, just to get food in hopes of a decent diet. of course that throws you into carni jaws as theyre all anyone is playing- and usually means youre bound to die again and again and again until you just get lucky. even if you do, it doesnt matter as no one wants to play herbi and youll get murked by the carno megapacks.

people wanted herbi diets more diverse, but this is really ridiculous. no one wants to play an eating sim the entirety of their time playing herbi. theres no time to hang out or nest, considering nesting is literally around the corner (seriously, how is someone going to nest when they have to run in circles?). playing is just simply a nightmare and utterly tiresome.

many people state they wanted this done to get ride of afk growing, but christ. you can still afk grow, its just not as easy- or just takes longer. carnis if anything, can afk way easier now considering theres tons of ai(you can go to the beaches and get the non hostile ai or chase a deer/goat/chicken) as well as bodies scattered from carno megapacks. seriously, carnis can just go find a body, which i always find with ease when playing, and get a free ride to 50%. afk growing will exist no matter what, but for the love of god quit trying to suppress it because its just punishing players who are trying their best to maintain a diet and making the game an eating sim, which no one wants.

[strange iris]

As someone who has roughly the same amount of playtime per dinosaur (with Carno leading the way by a small margin) I have to say that Carno is in a pretty decent spot right now.

I know a lot of players are disappointed with the adjustment to Teno's tail slam (like me) though others report being able to make things work for them. It seems the biggest issue is just how many people are playing a carnivore. Now that a Carno has a decent chance at killing an adult Teno etc, people are now flocking to play them. I get that as a herbivore player this is super frustrating. Herbivore players have had their previous experiences in this game completely upended. Given that food is now harder to find and that they're being forced to travel more with a much higher likelihood of being killed by carnivores- would you pick herbivore or carnivore? Still, my solution is not "-buff Teno attack! It needs to have a fair chance in a fight!"

The predator to prey ratio in an ecosystem is around 15:100 (this is a very broad statement as ecosystems are often much more intricate - but it serves to give a very basic idea to the concept at hand) and thus I think it would be the right "next step" to adjust things to make herbivore gameplay slightly easier.

Adult carnivores need bigger meals to eat rather than hunting struggling juvie herbivores.

As a herbivore, if my level of difficulty is suddenly raised I want starting over to be less punishing to me. Perhaps this could be done with diet adjustment or faster growth. I don't know- though I feel the team could figure something out. As a carnivore, I wish to be able to find plenty of herbivores to fight and sustain myself with rather than succumb to the Carno megapack / mixpack if I don't want to join their roving band in cleansing the lands.

Higher herbivore population bolstered via the ideas above would ultimately lead to less cannibalism, predation on herbivores being more evenly spread out, and all around less frustrated players.

[cloud acorn]

Nerf Carno's turning ability to what it was previously and reduce the amount of food it takes from ai, Carno is literally overpopulated rn and it makes playing any other species pointless because you'll just get outnumbered 5 to 1 by Carnos. You can't touch Carno's stats too much the way you did, it is the biggest and strongest land carnivore at the moment, the moment it gets even the slightest buff all the 12 year olds are gonna hop on the bandwagon because they can't wait to have a power trip on the op carnivore. Nerf it back to what it was, there was literally nothing wrong with its Pachy and Teno matchups, and with how easily it can stay fed on boars and deer they never need to cannibalize each other and they're never in danger of starving. My suggestion would be to simply make boars smaller (about Dryo size) so that way they don't give that much free food, because atm they legit feel like Evrima's Avas. In the span of 3 days, playing Carno has been nothing but cannibalism galore, we might have killed even 20 Carnos total because of how fucking crowded it is, something needs to change because they're literally like rats.

[hexed rain]

Ptera could already get 1-hit killed by alot of things, and was already struggling with stamina, why would yall nerf it to be even worse? It now has a hard time killing friggen hatchlings now. There were already barely any ptera players, and now after this buff, no-one is gonna wanna play it. As a ptera main, im done with this game until ptera gets some kind of buff. and it kinda sucks barely anyone else in this channel is mentioning pteras heavy nerfs, another indicator no one cares to play it. If you dont like flying dinos, dont add any, instead of nerfing them into unplayability

[lavish tundra]

So people complain about Teno and pachy being too OP and Carno doesn’t get love

Devs listen and fix carnos charge, and nerf both Teno and Pachy

People complain over their own complaints because they can’t realize that “nerf it” doesn’t always fix the problem.

More of feedback to the community but Ffs, think about the actual problem here. Stego is barely seen anymore which is a good thing and can be taken down by competent Utahs if need be.

Carno was only bad cause it’s two counters were overturned, then they made them pretty normal (be it the Pachy turn nerf wasn’t needed) you all complain.

So before you say “nerf it, it’s too strong” think about what the actual problem is and the factors that make it that way instead of one bad experience

[eternal token]

Well...the Patch brought some things into the right direction, sutch as Pachy balancing, deleting Oasis and u did nice on the new Riverspot in Center. And it feels like the Game runs a lil bit better since that.

BUT, why the heck do you buff an anyway OP Carnotaurus ??

Why are you still hiding Cliffs behind bushes, just to run through the jungle and falling down without seeing anything ??

Why do you replace Deino from Utah-Diet for another hard to catch, and not even giving proper amount of food/nutrients Pteranodon, instead of replacing it for Goats for example, what would make way more sense and allow Utah at least keeping Perfect Diet after Juvy-Stage in its terrible form it is.

Why do you put the Camera so close to the Dinos ?? The only one having an advance of that is the allready OP, anyways buffed Carnotaurus.

I dont understand this kind of "balancing" it just makes no sense making an easy to play, lame class even stronger...

[last grove]

Teno’s tail slam shouldn’t use 10% of your stamina per hit since it’s not it’s main dmg dealing weapon like the kick is supposed to be now, the tail slam does 180 dmg now and stuns but can only be used 10 times before your out of stamina, so I suggest making is use only 7-8% of your stamina so you can get a few extra uses out of it.

[violet axle]

Bump bc turn-tah used to yeet 1 carno to 3 Utahs if the Utahs were competent

if they weren’t competent they were dinner on legs. (very amusing to watch).

[gray bone]

Revert most of the carno buffs. Carno literally only needed hunger drain that wasn't comparable to a hypo. Not to get turned into one. Now that it's prey is nerfed and stuns are harder to combo with pre-patch carno would've preformed fine.

And make carno and younger deinos need more food. Not as much as pre-patch but what we have rn is just "eat ince or twice and boom free road to 50%."

Also ik food distribution was bad last update, but at least the food was available. I dont want to run a marathon to grow in a timely manner while carnivores get a free 50%. Its stupid how literally every single system benefits carnivores and shits on herbivores atm

(Edit) and one more thing. When people were complaining that juvenile carnivores were impossible to grow in the qa test, instead of looking into it and going "huh, it seems our diet system for herbivores is objectively flawed when applied to carnivores. Maybe we should put the time into giving carnivores a functional diet" you guys just made juvi carnivores exempt from the diet system while still gaining all the benefits. Nice.

[mortal basin]

you know whats stupid? when your utah decides to lay on the ground after missing a pounce for 5 seconds before getting up

[onyx granite]

make teno abilities cost less stam. buff pachy stam. fix utah pounce and stop breaking it.

[winged canopy]

Give Stego a health nerf. Since it will only be in water for a few seconds, make it so Deinosuchus can kill it in that time. I’ve had a Stego cross a river twice because it knows that three Deinosuchus can’t do anything to it.

[lunar osprey]

after playing a bit more and watching a bit of dbears stream i dont think carnos are that bad. BUT the amount of ai allows way to many to exist at once. which is most peoples problem. including mine.

[modest glacier]

Stego seriously needs a nerf. I was hanging with a healthy stego, it was drinking, then an adult deino attacked it- the stego destroyed it.
And that's not all, another full grown deino came along it, and guess what? It got killed too.
Stego doesn't require even the bit of skill, it's been suggested to be nerfed so many times

[finite epoch]

I see a lot of people complaining about carno. Which I personally don't see anything wrong with carno atm, but the overpopulation is out of control and people think the only way to fix that is to nerf it but then would nobody play it because it'll then be unplayable. The only solution to this is a medium sized carnivore. Messing with the stats will solve nothing. You can't balance a partial roster. I would be ok with a later date for update 5 if we can get at least push this and get the devs attention on this matter and get literally any other dinosaur and I know I'm not the only one who's sick of asking the devs about the one thing we all want and it's always "we're not working on that right now." Please cater to your fans.

[rancid badge]

Fuck it bro. I'm joining Carno vs Teno shitstorm. It's obvious. Teno should be stronger than Carno. It cannot escape. It can only fight back. So make Tailslam deal quite heavy stun, MILD fracture damage, and quite cheap in stam and medium damage. Kick should be stam expensive, no fracture damage, mild stagger, medium bleed, high damage (and a bit larger hitbox ffs). Claw should be very stam cheap, low damage and VERY high bleed. Bite is fine, should be weak and stam free. Teno is way too weak, especially for constant Carno overpopulation. Ik he's a herby, should be ez to grow, but not so good at combat, but please- Basic balance: "i can't run? Then i can fight. And Vice Versa"

[reef glade]

bruh you guys are getting too much. You all used to complain that carno had no ai so it couldnt survive now you complain there are too many carnos. You say herbivores are too strong so they fix it and now you complain herbis are weak. Watch them nerf stego then everybody complain that stego is too hard to grow for its weak stats. Bruh moment

[eternal token]

Same as Utah is droping down like knocked by a tree when he is running out of stamina while pouncing, thats so ridiculous.

Pounced Prey should have some debuffs due to heavy bleeding it inflicts.

If 6 Utahs need 10-15 mins to take down a single Carno, while Carno is taking at least 2 Utahs with him its just ridiculous. If it whas Velociraptor of 100Kg ok, but Utahs with each of arround 500kg....cmon

[lavish tundra]

Again. Nerfing Carno isn’t the option community. You have clearly been shown time and time again that simply nerfing something doesn’t fix the issue. Ex: Update 3 Teno, Stress test Carno, Update 4 Teno/pachy

It’s just been a constant problem of everyone screaming at one another over a simple fix. So instead is saying Carno is OP. Maybe look at the fact that it’s the only land Carnivore who can actually fight in a 1v1 Then use literally 2 more seconds of thinking and realize that adding more variety of the mid tier Carnivores would spread out carnivore players and cater to peoples liking (AKA Cerato and Dilo)

[bold quartz]

ptera nerfing was a horrible decision, 2 calling canni pteras can 2 shot eachother now

[violet briar]

I don't think it's nerfing itself is the problem, but that whenever something gets nerfed based on suggestions, it gets overnerfed, and whenever something gets buffed based on suggestions because of those overnerfs, it gets overbuffed, creating a constant cycle of players and devs not being able to communicate enough to make balanced playables. I would suggest, instead of doing these huge nerfs and buffs to multiple aspects of a creature (ex: damage and turn speed), buff one thing(ex: just damage), or nerf one thing, at a time. Then get the feedback for a week or so after that buff/nerf, and if it's bad, change something else or revert the change, and if it's good, don't touch it. Even if more playables are added or changed around. Players can give feedback if something gets thrown out of balance with new playables. It seems like a lot of the time though, once the cycle for a creature is broken, something else gets changed, and then the creature that was balanced gets changed too, throwing it into another cycle for a few months or even more

[inner knoll]

Why would you make the two herbivores incapable of outrunning a carno utterly garbage? Pachy can barely land a leg break to even get away like you guys wanted it to. Teno can no longer defend itself as good as it did previously because its tail slam was nerfed again and there are carno packs prowling all over the place. Revert it back to pre-patch. It was literally fine, and carno didn't need extra unnecessary buffs.

[glad urchin]

Decrease ai spawn rate so that it isn’t as easy to survive as a carni

[ivory totem]

I feel like it is good that juvie herbivores can't get all three nutrients as easily as they used to, the current state of the game is the closest we got to the way this mechanic was intended. Perfect diet should be a challenge, counting the fact that its buffs combined impact your survivability a lot. But that opens up what i think is the biggest problem of this patch: carnivores are much easier and faster to grow, which, combined with the fact that they are faster and therefore can move in plains without a fear of being spotted by other spices, ends up in herbivores being outnumbered in most encounters. The main reason of this happening is that while herbivore diet works as intended, carnivore doesn't. Finding a random leftover by a newborn carno provides him with all possible buffs for about 45 mins (basically half an hour of safe AFK, some may disagree, but i never had an issue with finding plenty of npcs after going out of hunger, this sometimes ends up in killing for fun 2 to 3 times more than i can eat as a utah. In case of a populated area, leftovers make for npcs). At the same time a herbivore (as it should) either takes moderate buffs for two food types and sits afk like carno, or goes on a long journey for the third buff (juvie teno, for example, can fill its radish root nutrient to keep it at more than 100%, eating a bit of potato on river banks as it moves to the swamp for the third nutrient). Then a carnivore being close to 50% growth finds food and fills all three nutrients once again, and only after another 45 minutes carnivore diet actually starts to matter, while herbivore is still struggling to keep perfect diet. I won't get into adult carnivore population being self-sustaining because of diets, that is topic for another day...

I know it is much easier said than done, but (TLDR -.-) carnivore diet really needs an overhaul to become both challenging and not luck-based (which was an issue before juvies were given all three nutrients for free)

[finite epoch]

I feel like adding some difficulty to carnivore growth would do better. We can still keep "No preferred diet" for them however instead of eating anything just fills up all 3 nutrients that any specific nutrient eaten would just fill the that nutrient bar. For example. Sea turtles are the doubles lines for ptera and deino but not for carno but if a carno juvi ate it it would simply just fill the double line instead of all 3. Another example would be how if a juvi Utah decided to eat a goat, something that isnt on the utah diet. It would fill just the S nutrient but not all 3. That would not only add difficulty to carnivore growth but would also prevent afk bush growing which should even it out since herbivores have to wander the whole map to get their food then so should carnivores. Promote exploration and prevent meta gaming.

[low garnet]

1. Decrease amount of stamina it takes to use tenonto tail-slam. The damage nerf was good but it doesn’t warrant using 10% of your stamina anymore.
2. Revert carnos turn rate back to what is was previous patch.
3. Footprints are way to easy to follow at the moment. Make it more difficult to track footprints so that you can potentially lose a predator.
4. Make it so herbivores can smell tracks again. As a herbivore you should be able to smell if there’s a predator in the area.
5. New map changes are good for deino but I still feel like it should get an increased bite force so it’s more of a threat to drinking stegos. In general it’s bite feels rather weak.

[winged canopy]

Fix the disparity between juvie deino nutrition and from what I can tell, every other juvie's nutrition. When you eat as a juvie deino, you get every nutrient you need, essentially giving you a free perfect diet. This isn't the case with any of the other critters I've played. So make it so that eating as a juvie gives every required nutrient. This makes being a defenseless baby a tad more bearable, and by the time you reach the stage where you need to go out and get specific foods, you can actually hunt/defend yourself.

[worn rivet]

Pounce is just bad, 75% of the time if you miss one you die simply because you get 1 shot by almost every other playable. Even when you land 1 it erases your stamina bar. Then once you dismount you're basically stuck in place for a second. Return pounce to it's update 2 days where it actually did something and I didn't die just for trying to use it

[modest echo]

And when will Utah’s get buffed or can carnos get nerfed

[stoic cave]

I appriceate the stamina loss from running, it makes walking a thing to actually use. Starting to walk everywhere rather then run.

[sweet rivet]

ok so what if... you allowed pounce to work in mud pits

[cold nacelle]

i think i'll put my take in. after reading some of the previous suggestions here, and my own gameplay experience, i'd like to say that herbis really stand no chance against carno right now. with the teno and pachy nerfs, everyone has resorted to the easy play, resulting in some serious carno overpopulation, making it impossible to survive as any herbi that isnt stego. its ridiculous, the number of carnos i see in game compared to any other species. and like others have said, nerfing carno isnt the answer, though im not too sure what the right answer is. a competitor for carno, a buff for herbis, etc. but right now pachy is a 3 hit on a great diet, it used to be able to hold enough speed / stam to get away for a second, but thats not an option anymore. these herbis used to be able to stand somewhat of a chance if caught alone, or even in a group, by a carno. but with the carno megapacks running around now due to the herbi debuffs, its a bit too much of a challenge to try to keep anything alive. meanwhile carni growth is a breeze due to their diet needs.

[sullen dock]

If you miss a pounce as a Utah, there shouldn't be a time when you can't move. I mean why should it not be able to move?

[hazy zinc]

The reason herbivores are really bad right now is not because “carno op needs nerf lole.” It’s largely because of the food spawns, which in turn makes it both more difficult to grow an herbivore, and makes it infinitely harder to find a herd. So this should be addressed first and foremost. But you have an attention span higher than that of a goldfish, you’ll remember that tenonto and pachy both trashed carno before this patch.

Pachy got rightfully put in its place to where it cannot actively send a carnivore 4 times larger than it running just by facing it. Plus, now that body fracture is incredibly powerful, the only real issue in the pachy vs carno matchup is that when pachy lands a hit, it never fractures in the location that it landed its hit. This is a hitbox issue, not a stats issue. Pachy is meant to fracture large opponents and GTFO before it dies. For people who try to banish carno to the realm of only being allowed to hunt “”small game”” they sure do seem to think that the small game should be able to thrash it in combat.

As for tenonto, being able to melt a carno’s health in such few tail slams was a bit much. However teno admittedly does seem to have a bit of trouble now that carno is more maneuverable. Instead of nerfing carno, give teno the ability to be more liberal with throwing out hitboxes to counter carno’s ability to blitz you. Experiment with ideas such as making the tail slam cost less stamina now that it isn’t as powerful, or buffing tenonto’s stamina regen. Teno’s high stam regen was a problem in the past, but now that it doesn’t have the power of a nuclear bomb, this could potentially give tenonto the option to escape from the carno if it doesn’t feel fighting is the best option. With teno’s trot speed, this would aid teno in its ability to to get to advantageous terrain faster while also deflecting attacks while it makes a run for it. The best counters for a fast opponent are fast attacks that can be used quickly in succession.

[glad urchin]

Increase pachy’s max speed a little

[lavish tundra]

Stegos should not be able to swing their tail through water or rocks or trees, it makes no sense

[high wadi]

Hello. Is there any chance that Dyro could get some "touch of love"? Maybe some small buff here and/or there. It was so fun to play in the early days, but after updates/nerfs it's just the "weakest" dino in Evrima.

[mortal musk]

A carno nerf is probably the best option until another mid tier carnivore is added, and even then as the carno player base splits there will likely still be an overabundance of carnivores. From an ecosystem stand point there should be many more herbivores and omnivores than predatory carnivores, and the only way to limit carnivore populations in a survival and combat game is to keep carnivores at a high skill level gameplay or at least make them more difficult to play than herbivores.

[glad urchin]

A carnotaurus nerf won’t change anything because it’s stats aren’t the reason that it’s dominating the landscape right now. I really think you should leave it alone. But Tenos kick and pachy fractures do need a bug fix because they don’t work very well

[vocal helm]

keep carno how it is now and revert the pachy nerfs

[gray bone]

My view on current balance.

Carno

• Revert its skid buff
• Tone down its walking agility
• Slightly increase its acceleration time

Teno

• Lower the stam cost of tail slam
• Fix the kick hitbox
• Allow to sniff tracks and blood

Pachy

• Revert the turning while ramming nerf
• Make hitboxes more consistent
• Allow to smell tracks and blood

Utah

• Stop breaking its fucking pounce every other update

Deino

• Lower the amount of food fish give larger juveniles

Problems with current systems

Diets

• Expects herbis to travel the entire map in a predictable path.

• Allowes carnivores to basically get a free adult with little to no effort

• Is boring and uninteresting. It's basically Path of Titans growth but worse.

[dreamy patrol]

I think the only nerf needed to carno is reverting its skid buff and walking agility back.

Tenos also need some love. If they can’t out run carno they should be able to at least hold there own, unless out numbered.

Also fix Utah pounce again.

[lavish tundra]

My ideas on balance for the current creatures

Carno: it’s fine as it is. Doesn’t need a nerf however maybe give it a little more stamina but slightly more turning just not as much as it had

Pachy revert the ram turn

Teno: reduce stam on the slam, raise kick damage a little more so it’s using slam as a utility, and kick as the power

Deino give it fracture on the lunge so it isn’t killing Stego but can tell it to piss off

Diets carnivore Juvies need to have same diet as adults and only gain one nutrient so they aren’t getting a free ride to Sub

Edit: Add Cerato so we have more land carnivores who can take fights Utah doesn’t count cause it’s a pack hunter

[rocky ember]

maybe add fractures for deino when fighting a steg but it must bite head to do fractures / grab or extra damage in head

[void orbit]

I really like the tension between carnos and utahs. Both are fast predators, but Carnos are for sure something to be feared.
I remember playing Legacy if I was Utah and I saw a Carno I would immediately run in the opposite direction-- cause I knew that thing, unlike every other predator in the game, could outrun me.

One thing Utah had over Carno however (besides pounce and jumping) is its agility. Which seems to... not really be the case in Evrima?

I've only ever evaded Carnos a few times, but a lot of the time it's really just a death sentence cause they aren't all that bad at turning. They're actually pretty ok at it, and can easily keep track of you no matter how many 'swift' turns you make. I mean seriously these guys are the kings of The Isle right now, they are everywhere.

Carnos should turn like a bus to make up for the fact that they are the fastest predator in the game.

[lucid ether]

I want to boost this because I agree and also because I feel like the dev team is making the same mistake it always has.

Doubling (or tripling) up on buffs/nerfs.

Instead of just changing the map to spread herbivores out so they can't dominate the server at one pond anymore, they also nerfed them. Why both? Why not change the map and see what changes before touching the stats?

Also why, oh why, did carno get turn improvements? You spread the herbivores out, weakened them, and buffed the most overpopulated, annoying predator in Evrima at the same time.

Please pick one big change at a time and see how it plays out. Please stop making the same mistakes you have been making since Legacy where you slap 2-3 severe balance changes and flip the problem in the opposite direction rather than fixing it.

The example I'll give from the past is giga in Legacy, which went from pathetic to insanely overpowered in attempts to fix it (it can trot down anything with 0 effort, has great stam, and turns like a dream).
I know this isn't Legacy, nor is the balance as aggregious, but similar mistakes are being made that lead to similar results when it comes to balancing. Stego and carno have been consistent issues, either melting under other players hopelessly or ruling the servers unchallenged.

Maybe take the time to work on balance and put out a few small patches every few days or once a week until the game can feel more leveled. Even if this happens after Update 5 is fully released, I think the community would really appreciate it.

Love you guys. Been here since very, very early days ( I miss the Isle Mesa map ). But please learn from your mistakes 🙏💜

Edit: I just want to clarify that I don't disagree with most of the recent changes at face value. I just believe it is better to see how these things will effect the game "in the wild" a little bit at a time. Pachy was way too strong. But so is carno. My comments here are arguing for one big change at a time for a specific problem, rather than 2 or 3. You can always change more in the next patch.

[safe torrent]

Deino lunge should have high fracture. It weighs two tons more than anything else in the roster and it flies out of the water fast enough in my opinion to qualify it for at least a little bone crunching goodness. It's not going to upset the balance in any way either. If you're small enough to fit in it's mouth your basically dead anyway, and due to how bad the land lunge is at catching anything (especially with the hotboxes that have been broken since launch ), even if it gets fracture it will change nothing.

I feel this is the best way buff deino so that it is not to be outcompeted in it's own turf by stego while still keeping it immobile and defensive on land.

Note that by high fracture damage I mean high fracture damage. Don't tell me pachy headbutt would hurt less than deino lunge lol. Maybe if it's at least as powerful as pachy than the stegos might give maybe one though about sitting next to the water.

[pure needle]

Can you do something in regard that Stegos Bodyblocking Lunge attacks from deinos for other Herbis when they go to the rive drinking since Stegos is baisicly immune? What is my Lunge good for if i Hit a Spiked Wall everytime i go for a pachy

[lavish tundra]

I want to take a look at how the team has balanced things over the past year.

Purely buffing, or nerfing something has proven time and time again to not work. Ex: stress test Carno, Pachy, Teno, U4 Carno, Pachy, Teno

If you only buff/nerf something it allows other creatures to gain an upper hand. So I beleive a different approach should be taken. If you want to raise Pachys ram turn, give it more consistent fractures or better stam

Give a trade off instead of the pure buff/nerf to see what’s working and what’s not

Example being if Carno had worse turning to encourage it to be very careful engaging in combat. Give it better stamina so it can escape and not be punished for trying to get food

[rocky ember]

3 stegos rn just guard water at 3 sides and don't care about anything do something about it

[patent blade]

Buff my favorite animal (the stegosaurus), I have died too many times to the OP pachycephalosaurus and the unfair utahraptor. Also please add troodon before cerato.

[lavish tundra]

I think rather than nerfing or tweaking things. We need to look at what fundamentally works, and what doesn't

Carno needs to hunt small game efficiently, but upping it's turn radius makes it a big Utah. See the problem?
You need to design Carno with mechanics that favours it's niche without compromising the balance of it being oppressive. So simply tweaking values is short sighted in this context.
This applies to Utah raptor as well. It's a pack hunter... That doesn't really pack hunt well. Adjusting the blood and pounce mechanics was only the entry level step. Other than taking turns of stam, there's not much mechanics that encourage team play, or coordinating attacks to make efficient clean kills. What usually happens is people take turns pouncing, they bite to stop bleed. Lose a couple of people, then wait around for it to drop. This I feel, plays more like how Dilo/Troodon should if anything.

Carnivores struggle in this game because of a lack of methodical mechanics to bring down prey, and if they do bring down prey. It's either a costly endeavor or it's cheap.

Herbivores don't struggle in this regard because they must either defend or flee. Meaning the simple mechanics are serviceable enough to accomplish this. It isn't cheap to warded off by a Teno/Pachy. It's cheap not having a required tool kit to overwhelm their defense. Though lately the flee type herbivore has not been given any type of love which is why the ecosystem is very much a death match atm.

[junior gull]

Tie the grab from deino lunge to health rather than weight. Most ambush situations would be unchanged, but if a reckless person went near water before resting up the deino could potentially punch above its usual weight.

[flint loom]

I love the Isle. I've personally played 1500 hours but these days I can't seem to have fun for more than about 5 minutes before absolutely any dino I play is absolutely destroyed by one of the dozens of packs of full grown carnos roaming the map until they eventually log or starve to death because of the extremely unbalanced ecosystem and constant buffs to an already overpowered carno. Also I might be a little biased but I feel the Utah is fairly underpowered, even in packs it lacks the ability to take down things larger than it. I remember 2-3 Utahs standing a chance against a carno and now it feels as though 6-7 Utahs still dont stand a chance against carnos.

[river portal]

Please do NOT go back to the horrible turning radius of carno in Legacy. I love the cheetah-like carno in Evrima. That would totally ruin carno.

[lone glade]

Give deino bonebreak.

[finite sapphire]

Carno at the moment very much feels like its a weighty Utah that can't jump. It turns very fast again despite the drag and sliding when moving at high speed, and its quick bites leave it with very few opportunities for others to counter attack against. It can plow through entire packs of utahs with very little damage to itself because at nearly every angle, it can defend itself quite easily and does a high amount of damage. Carno's size also plays a role in it being at quite an advantage right now- It can very easily stand out of reach in deep water or mud where its opponent, of most species, cannot easily reach it without putting themselves at risk. This is especially bad for Utah, because its smaller size means that shallower water and mud slows it before it does carno and means attempting to pursue it will always mean severe injury for the utah.

Potential solutions:
-Revert the changes to carno's movement to where they were in the prior patch. Carno is once again a bruiser to utahs and tenontos when it already had quite a good advantage against them. Now its entirely unbalanced where carno is not threatened in the least.
-Give carno a slightly higher movement debuff in deep mud or water, to encourage carnos to not just stand out of reach of others, utahs in particular.

Utah also has a fair amount of issues right now. Pounces are still incredibly risky because dismounting will almost always place utah in strike range of what it pounced, which is particularly devastating when against stego or carno. Its main ability is far too risky to use from that alone, but also because at certain angles, whatever the utah pounced can still hit it even with it on its side. Failed pounces also often place a utah under or within what they attempted to pounce on, trapping them and allowing their prey to get many hits off before the utah can move and try again if they aren't killed. it feels much more like utah is meant to hunt small game rather than be a pack hunter working to bring down bigger prey as a group because whether you're in a pack or solo, the outcome often remains the same and capability is not changed.

Potential solutions:
-Make pounce send the utah further back, with a much quicker animation when getting up from a dismount.
-Ensure that failed pounces dont place utahs under their prey
-Better visual indicators for how much a target is bleeding would be a huge boon to utah players for knowing when to let prey bleed or when to pounce it again. Perhaps having more bleed leaving many more larger blood pools or blood flowing out of prey would be a good idea here.

[frosty cedar]

I agree with the statement above about utha. I also suggest making a pounce further to the distance of a normal jump, if you use a sprint, and the distance that exists at this moment can be left if you use a pounce from a place or walking calmly. !!!!I would also correct the dependence of pounce on the aiming angle!!!! It's a shame when the prey is higher, you look at an angle of 45 * use pounce and just jump under his feet and die. I really like this patch because herbivores no longer run after predators just to kill. For Pachy, there is a proposal for his defense capability. With the new patch, Pachy has become afraid of Carno. Pachy has now started to lose 1VS1 in most cases. He needs an ability that prevents a special Carno attack. Pachy needs an ability similar to Carno's run-up or just stand on the defensive with his head. Since when running up, Carno knocks Pachy down anyway, even if Pachy managed to use a special attack in time. I was interested to see what if when Pachy and Carno run into each other and hit their heads. Carno's head concussion? That would give Pachy time to escape. As for Carno itself, increase the volume of the special attack (running volume) For petra, I would add "scan mode". It is very difficult to find frogs, and other small animals.

[merry hare]

since teno is weak as hell right now, we should try some new balancing things. like make teno even better in the water, make it an even faster swimmer than can swim around the swamp islands to escape packs and shit.

i never even liked spending 80% of my stam killing a carno, so idgaf if the tail is only used for stun. just make it so claw either does more damage or way more bleed, that way carno has the finish the job or bleed out.

another thing you could do is make it so tenos tail might not do alot of damage, but maybe have it do some sort of exhausting type of damage. like getting hit would take some of your stam. then maybe carnos wont be able to spam charge over and over.

the only way i found myself escaping a carno was when i constantly swam across rivers to avoid him, i feel making teno strong in the water would give deinos more to do. and help tenos use their strengths better.

[glad urchin]

Bring back carnos charge cooldown and maybe decrease it’s bite speed to one second so that it won’t be as formidable. This way it can still be the animal it is but not as dominant over most thing. And maybe it would change up its play style because of it.

I can’t stress enough that nerfing carnos base stats won’t fix anything and there will still be dozens of mega packs wandering the map ready to kill.

The only way to revert this is either put the map the back to the way it was, give it the slightest bit of competition, or, encourage cannibalism more.

[deft agate]

When a Utah pounces a Stego and dismounts we die 1 shot to a tailswipe, the pounce mechanic is made so freaking bad that when u dismount u litteraly fall on the ground next to the steg waiting to get swiped back to character select -_-
sometimes i wonder how devs even come up with things like that...

[neon kelp]

Carno is overtuned, pachy does no damage practically useless, Teno tail slam is also once again weak. Utah pounce is again broken as it always is some how after each patch. The only viable dinos to play now is carno stego and croc, otherwise you're just growing to feed someone. Carno didnt need a buff it was balanced the way it was, it also did not need the ram buff it got either. You can get rammed on your tail from a carno as a utah and be 20% health. Make it make sense these balance changes get more delirious each update.

[low spear]

Blood tracks as they are right now are way too one dimensional. Yes they show if a target is bleeding and yes it leeves tracks, but the intervals between each new blood-track is independent from how high the bleed of the target is. This makes it way to easy to track down any bleeding victim.

The intervals of the blood-tracks should be tied to your bleed level. Making it so that the interval between the blood-tracks ramps up proportional to your bleed level until it reaches the interval we currently have in game at a high bleed level and above.

1. This would allow prey to have a way better chance to escape when not bleeding profusely.

2. Hunters would have a visual cue to estimate the preys bleed

Lastly it would be nice if we could get a visual cue for us to estimate our own bleed level. Maybe make the heart icon pulse when bleeding and it pulses faster the higher the bleed is. Please no bleed level indicator like in legacy with the three blood droplets.

[strange iris]

Building on my earlier post...

People are quite upset with Carnos at the moment because they're everywhere. There's been so much improvement to them that they're now well-balanced and fun to play- so everyone plays them! However, there need to be a few changes for herbivores and diets in general to make them balanced and fun to play as well.

With that said:

The only dinosaurs in the game are players. As AI is re-added, there will be more things to hunt which statistically speaking means a player dino is less likely to be hunted.

On the topic of more dinosaurs, more species being added is inevitable. This gives the opportunity to refine Carno's diet. Now onto what I would like to see.

Carno's theme in this game is definitely speed. My very loosely-revised suggestion that acts as a simple example is as follows:
= Deer, Herrera and Galli
... Boar, Pachy and Teno
S Utah, Rabbits and Dryo

Each playable would split a different diet bracket- let alone sharing it with a creature that can only be AI. This spreads the encounters with a 'problem carnivore' between species should the same scenario that's happening with Carno arise in other carnivores as well.

Aside from that, Teno and Pachy seem to be in a pretty good spot as far as combat goes though some slight stamina boosts would go a long way along with a reduction on how much stam tail slam uses.

IMO, herb diet change is part of what has caused the Carno population to explode. All juvi herbs have had a pretty steep difficulty increase in reaching their adult lifestage with so much added travel- with Pachy having the hardest time even as an adult with how far it has to go to find food. Why play herbivore when you can play a very well-balanced carnivore? This ties into what I stated in my previous post in improving food placement. When food placement is improved and people can enjoy growing herbs, more people will play them- with more people playing herbs fewer people will play Carnos.

[glad urchin]

Tenontosaurus needs a faster growth time and less stamina taken from kick and tailslam

[heavy cradle]

The balance behind the Herbivore diets seems backwards. Instead of having to run across the island as a baby to achieve max growth speed then go afk, Herbivores should be able to eat anything till 50% growth then required to run around and graze the lands as an adult that can defend itself. Running around as a baby dyno is boring, slow, and nobody even spots you to cause emergent and exciting game interactions. When you are an adult, you just go to hotspots to see how long you can survive because nobody really wants to run around for food when there is less chance of meeting other players to fight or befriend.

A huge flaw in the food routes is that carnivores are either at the locations you are going to waiting or at the center of the map where most Herbivores go or have to pass through. Even if the Carnivores don't find any Herbivores they just kill and eat each other. This makes most of the travel boring and without player interaction when traveling from one point to the other for food as an Herbivore.

Between the Patchy and the Tenonto, the Patchy has the harder time keeping all 3 sources of food. One food source for the Tenonto is by every river, whereas the Patchy has to go to a coast/ravine, center grasslands, or SE swamp. The Patchy needs at least one food source in abundance, as do all Herbivores IMO.

TLDR: One source of food needs to be everywhere in abundance for Herbivores, and Herbivores need to receive a perfect diet on any food till they reach 50% growth. This will allow more emergent and interactive gameplay for both Herbivores and Carnivores.

[valid horizon]

So, remember when Pachy was supposed to fracture and run? I faced off with 3 pachys killed 2, the last pachy got both head and leg fractured. I just literally ran it down with a leg fracture, with the fun and balanced tracking system. It didnt have enough stam to run and get on a rock. If you bait a few tail slams on a teno, and get a charge you can just face tank it. Tenos have to literally cry about it.

[indigo ice]

I suggest some small balance changes to Teno and Pachy. They are close to being balanced but not quite there.

Pachy:

Make ram more consistent. A fully charged ram should always fracture a carno. Because pachy's ram turn is worse, hitting one should be rewarded. Since pachy is not as good at brawling anymore, this will push the 'fracture and run' playstyle.

Teno:

1. Increase the size of Kick's hitbox. Many times it will not register even when right up against an opponent.

2. Reduce the stamina cost of tail slam. Tail slam's damage was reduced (a good change) but the stamina is still 10% to use one, which is way too high for a move with this damage. It should be changed to around ~7% stamina.

Please do not overdo it with the buffs. They only need small changes to work well.

[heavy cradle]

Maybe add a way to use scent to find other Herbivores to group with. I log into a grown dyno and no Herbivore is using calls to group up from fear of attracting Carnos.

I usually log in, find a hiding spot to call from, and hear nothing but Carnivore calls all around me when playing an Herbivore. Sometimes I just log out because I realize how pointless it is trying to find a Herd to roam with as an Herbi (when playing solo). If I could smell/sense other Herbivores, maybe that would help promote herds to roam with vs all the meat eaters, seeing as that is how they are being balanced to survive.

[mystic dome]

Ptera is useless now. It's just spectator mode with an eating/drinking feature. There is literally nothing else to do. Even juvis of other species can easily kill you. And you don't have a chance to defend yourself against anything. At least buff the damage output. It's difficult enough to peck things when you are flying, so it wouldn't create a huge imbalance to the ecosystem, if pteras were at least a serious danger for juvis again. One miscalculation during the attack, and you get knocked out of the air, even by juvis, which means in 99% of the cases that you are dead. Pteras are so bored now they kill each others for fun, probably because same species fights are the only ones you have a chance to win.

[dense matrix]

Just here to reinforce this point, teno didn’t need a nerf it needed a rebalance, and whilst this is what was done in regards to damage values for its rear attacks, the stam values of both went unchanged.

This is just silly…

Kick takes quite a massive chunk of stam to use so don’t make that any more or less, but slam? Dear lord slam needs a cost reduction real bad, it unironically deals less damage than a claw attack despite costing twice to 3 times as much (feel free to correct me QA team, my figures are based on in game observation since the devs don’t like telling us the damage of attacks…. ).

Here’s what to do: Reduce tail slam stam cost significantly, increase the size of teno’s kickbox and allow it to reach a Carno’s head when being used… as they are literally the only thing that concerns you when dealing headshot damage.

The bleed damage re-addition to kick was fantastic and borderline needed, it especially helps to ward off carnos as carno drains a massive amount of stam when doing pretty much everything.
This was good, don’t change this, in fact the rebalance in general was pretty well executed it’s just in the fine tuning that it needs improvement.

[low spear]

Im just gonna talk about what I think how Tenos attacks should work together.

(Kick) should be the most damaging move for the tenno aplying a little bleed

(Claw attack) second lowest damage wise but should apply high bleed.

(Tail slam) the cc of the attacks that will stagger/stun targets. Damage wise the middle ground between claw and kick.
->Normal stuns should not be able to override other stuns only knock-downs should be able to.

(Bite) your stamina free attack but lacking in damage. A bite should put itself on cooldown but not other attacks. Other attacks will always put themselves and bite on cooldown. Meening if a tenno bites it can't bite instantly again but could attack with any other attacks it has in that downtime but then would have to wait.
(If you can't use anything but bite stamina wise u messed up somewhere )

[delicate wren]

One minor interaction that no one is talking about atm is the carno ram and pachy headbutt. If they both hit each other, neither takes damage but they both get fractured. Which is an interesting concept and I do like it. However, there is basically a bit of rng that can make the pachy's legs get broken (and maybe the carno's legs, but i haven't tested it enough to see) which is a death sentence. I believe changing it to a definite rib fracture for both or pachy's ribs and carno's head would be a better solution, rather than having to hope rng decides to not kill you. If pachy breaks its ribs, it cant fight back and cant run for long, so the carno still has a chance to catch it. Meanwhile, a carno rib break would allow the pachy to run if the carno had less stam and a skull break could make it much harder to find and kill the pachy after it ran.

Essentially, just make the carno ram and pachy headbutt a definite rib break for pachy and a definite head or rib break for carno. RNG deciding fate is not fun.

[modest glacier]

Ptera's weak as hell, I 3-4 shot one as a dryo

[gritty maple]

Pachy and Teno are now completely useless and can't face carno AT ALL. Please fix these balance issues.

[glad urchin]

Make tenonto’s claw attack do more damage because it isn’t very helpful to use in combat atm

[lavish tundra]

Personally I think Carno is fine for how it should be in the future with a full roster. A speedy mid tier/pseudo mid who preys on smaller targets like Teno, Pachy, Utah etc

However there isn’t any clear creature who poses much of a threat to Carno. Cerato would definitely help with spreading the carnivore mains oht from pure Carno and packs of Cerato could take on a Carno or two

Teno also needs to be changed to have a heavy powerful kick (powerful like the old Tailslam) and make Tailslam a Utility that doesn’t cause much damage or use much stamina. But stuns and allows the kick to smack with power

Carno isn’t the problem with the ecosystem. It’s the changes to Herbivores aren’t all needed and it has no clear competition.

Herbis are nerfed into the ground and Carno gets no one to fight over food with

[next silo]

Carno can deadass ass ride a pachy, and by the time the pachy turns around its dead, 10 seconds for a stun, with the impossible ratio of leg break, there is a 0% chance u survive if you see an adult carno, even if its like a mile away, if you twwo cross eyes, well your basically fucked, the OP track system for every carnivore for some dumbass reason, and the impossible ratio of leg break, heck I bet even if I have a head fracture I could kill a damn pachy. people complained about the pachy stun time NOT EVERYTHINGE ELSE, you nerfed everything that made pachy good, now with its bad turning radius, I swear utahs could kill pachy so fuckin easily its funny, ive killed so many pachy after biting its base tail like 4 times then it would just bleed out and die. here is a buff id reckon that MAYBE people will still play pachy, increase blood pool and turning radius please, also increase leg fracture % and reduce body fracture %. keep the stun, let pachy be the fracture-run type.

[worn rivet]

I just watched a YouTube video of 2-3 carnos annihilating 5-6 Tenos. They could nothing but bend over and take it. There’s nothing you can do against them. A carno can ram a teno, stop, turn on a dime, and then bite your head until your dead. Plus the charge doesn’t even have a cooldown anymore. So you can do it over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over. Until you get the results you want

[hot nebula]

Honestly i think the thing that needs fixin right now are the herbivore diets and the hitboxes for all dinos because a lot if hits just dont end up registering, fix those things and see how pvp changes from it. I dont think we should be jumping the gun asking for more or less damage, or more or less stamina use. Fix the hitboxes and diets first, then see what happens. Regarding the tenos being decimated, the tail slam spam was the main go to strategy for pretty much all the tenos, they kind of have to figure out a new playstyle to adapt to the changes that have been made. Also a youtube video, isnt always rhe best evidence. They could be pro carnos or noob tenos unless it’s specifically explained. Thats my feelings on all this

[merry hare]

can we fix the tracking so it isn't carnivores tracking down herbivores 100% of the time

widen the little pizza slice shape, and make it so it might not be as accurate for where the next set of foot prints will be.

i'm not sure if this was fixed or not, but if you can see the footprints through foliage, then fix it.

then make it so tracks, that you have already picked up, delete much quicker. its a cool concept for tracking, but it's impossible to escape from

[deft agate]

John W. on Speed — vandaag om 12:34
I just watched a YouTube video of 2-3 carnos annihilating 5-6 Tenos. They could nothing but bend over and take it. There’s nothing you can do against them. A carno can ram a teno, stop, turn on a dime, and then bite your head until your dead. Plus the charge doesn’t even have a cooldown anymore. So you can do it over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over. Until you get the results you want

Bro there have been SO many messages about carno being so broken now the game is not playable for anything else.
It just seems the devs either dont want to fix it or they have no decent way to get information out to the consumers..
The highlighted part will make this game die so fast if they dont fix it ASAP.

Community matters these days

[onyx granite]

I think carno is fine, you don’t have to play so immersed like other dinos… and i think i’m gonna main the creature until the next carni, i like the game being on easy mode and brawling down a teno and pachy, while also being able to take one of those 2 down in one second with my ambush ability, the map makes it easier to land an ambush and it’s just so fun playing carno! 👍🏻

[dry turret]

my take on the carno matter is that carno is fine, except the spam ramming, fix that, when more dinosaurs are added to the roster, it'll be balanced, however it's the herbivores that it goes up against that need tweaking, pachy especially
pachy's slow turning while holding a ram and it's low chance for a head or leg fracture makes it an easy kill for carno
but even if it gets the leg fracture it isn't going to matter, I saw a video of a pachy in a forest getting chased down by a leg fractured carno, it couldn't do anything against him, low stamina, low health, being slowly pursued by a cripple in the woods

then there's teno, while the tail slam damage nerf is good, really all the changes were good, it just needs some fixing
firstly, teno's tail slam should take less stam if it's as weak as it is
teno's kick hitbox needs to be changed so that it works more than 20% of the time
the claw attack also needs to deal more damage and bleed

[subtle gulch]

I think carno needs a stam buff and attack buff, it's just too difficult to facetank tenos and pachys right now

[delicate wren]

After playing pachy a a lot this update, I can tell that pachy has been nerfed a bit too hard indirectly. The issue is a compound of nerfs to pachy, buffs to carno, and how spread out the diets are for pachy. The devs want pachy to be a "fracture and run" type of dino and it used to be "fracture and keep bashing while they are weak" playstyle. However, this update has made pachy "fracture and pray you can escape". There are only 2 ways I have been able to escape a carno encounter: stay with larger herbivores that do damage, and run to the forest. The new tracking system and carno buffs makes it near impossible to escape them alone. Meanwhile, i have not had to deal with raptors much myself, but I know it would be impossible for me to duel a raptor who knew how to doge well.

Here is how pachy should play:
Go for a break
skull break=run and hide
leg break=run
rib break= run the predator out of stam, then escape.

Some possible buffs to help this would be by nerfing carno's turn radius, decreasing the stam cost on ram, or reverting the turn radius nerfs on pachy. DO NOT do multiple of these at once, we already see how that turned out this patch. Instead just add them in small patches and gauge if pachy/carno needs more buffs/nerfs.

[rigid latch]

Ptera needs to be buffed or at least less of a spectator mode.
Like make it be able to pick up small Dino’s or Juvis then drop them and do some damage or break a leg to make ptera more fun

[lavish tundra]

Hot take: Carno might just be fine. The real issue is, that the mechanics and how they affect matchups are fundamentally wrong. You have a reasonably small prey item without proper means of escape in its arsenal to support that. It’s absolutely important they could defend themselves in a fight. But it’s also important for herbivores to choose living to fight another day more often as a more feasible option.

[bold quartz]

Something needs to be done about the Petra damage to it’s own species. 1 adult can 2 shot another adult with alt attack. Getting real sick of getting accidentally killed by my teammates while killing turtles. Or worse having your entire group slaughtered by a canni because combat is just a 1-5 peck numbers game

[smoky lichen]

4 ton stego

[livid igloo]

Balance 101: You don't nerf + buff + change diet dynamic all at once without real testing with players and watching the effect it has on the ecosystem.

Pachies / Tenos are in a miserable place at the moment. Already buffing carno for what ever reason and changing plants placement to force herbivores to take more risk and cross long distances was already a nerf to herbivores (the latter much needed). But you don't add extra nerfs to it on top of it. The state of the game at the moment is miserable, it was easy to predict what would happen after almost 2 months of Carnoland on the QA for 4.0.

Here are some suggestions:

Carnos not needing diet / food as fast reduces competition among themselves and the occurence of cannibalism and favours megapacks. Revert some of that

Pachies should be strong close to what they were but have their stun locking ability slightly nerfed. Most likely through diminishing return cooldown on stuns like other stuns in the game.

I thought the Teno / Carno matchup was in the best spot before this patch. I don't really see the need for these nerfs / buffs for tenos and carnos.

[gray bone]

After playing some more, here's my perspective on balance.

Step 1.

Carno: left as is.

Teno:
decreased tail slam cost
Fix kick hitbox

Pachy.
Revert ram turning nerf.
Decrease stun immunity to 5 seconds.
Fix fracture hitboxes

Utah.
Fix pounce

Diets.
Fix them. Evenly distribute diet foods around the map with a limit to how much can spawn in a single spot.
Make herbivores need more food.

If this doesn't work and carno is still so oppressive,
Step 2.

Carno.
Revert skid buff
Tone down turning
Increase food costs

And if it still doesn't work.
Step 3.
Carno.
Completely revert turning buff.

[frank mauve]

Nerf carno
Why is carno op again? Wasnt one carno hell meta already enough suffering for us? Not only ig, but also mentally after hours of only hearing carno 1call lmao
But seriously nerf carno

[valid horizon]

Give Us back our 200 bite force back. Release the final chain on Carno. Give us update 3 Carno back. Balance wise it would still 3 shot Pachy and 3 shot a Utah. What is 25 more damage gonna do to a Teno

[sacred vale]

Carno isn’t op, the buffs made between patches were not the reason carno is so prevalent now. It’s the food cost that allows them to support high populations they weren’t able to previously, plus carni diets being as easy as ever. Look at those issues as they’re the real issue

[rough panther]

Decrease speed while having a leg fracture

[ember rose]

4 ton Stego and 6 ton Deino :)))))

4 ton stego will help big (big) packs of Raptors be able to hunt it down, and it’ll still be a 12 shot from Carno via headshots, so still a bunch of room for error, especially since Stego can still absolutely defend itself well, killing one would definitely still require at least 3 Carnos.

6 ton deino just because they can basically freely walk on land with hardly any punishment. That’s all lol.

[next silo]

here are balance changes that would be nice for the game (IMO)

Carno: nerf it to what it was pre update, whoever had a problem with it back then were probably face tanking dinos, and or not playing smart. I swear I didn't see ANYONE ask for a buff for carno, it was the strongest land predator. now make it stronger? why?

Teno: the tailslam should do way more damage, I get that y'all want the tailslam to be stun only, but its a 900+ KG CLUB smacking you, its not going to do almost the same as a carno bite. Make tailslam high damage no bleed(obviously) and make kick medium damage high bleed, this will be a good buff to make carno-teno more even.

Pachy: holy crap you guys nerfed this thing like no other. Since it cant do much on defending itself against utahs since the charge up nerf, Increase the bloodpool, I swear 1 base tail shot from a carno nearly bled me out. also increase leg fracture %.

Utah: no one talks about it, but I really think its being mistreated. The pounce is really buggy, yes I know not a balance issue, but im assuming it will be fixed soon, even so, I feel like the pounce can be used for far more than just damage and bleed, like high cost of stamina when using certain attacks that use body weight, higher cost of stamina while running ( depending on the weight of the dino ). Bucking needs to drain more stamina relative to your weight. like a stego trying to buck a utah shouldnt take much stamina, but a pachy bucking it off should take HEAPS of stamina, especially because its really hard to LAND one in the first place (doesn't really matter cuz pachy bleeds out after 1 sec of pounce but still).

[weary glade]

Would it be better if made utahs can maul 50% carno like before?

[atomic gorge]

needs to be optimized better for a game which its combat relies on timing its abit of a stuggle to deal with, but soon i feel the isle will take over if it turns out the way you all have envisioned .

[half jackal]

Balance is horrible and that makes it unfun to play anything but carno, deino or stego.
Playing teno or pachy is now a death sentance and have little to no chance of winning vs a competent player while being competent themselfs.

Can we please go back to update 3 or 3.5 but keep the map changes in 4.5?
carno couldve done with the acceleration buff and pachy couldve donw with the turn while charging headbut nerf.
Teno imo did not need a tail slam nerf, now 2 carnos can easily facetank a teno with little problem while the teno suffers major problems like stam usage and bleed.

TL:DR: Carno now stomps pachy and teno, pachy and teno got huge nerfs. Revert the balance back to update 3 - 3.5 but keep map changes of update 4.5

[red oasis]

Remove diets for deinos completely. No stat buffs or preferred species. There shouldn’t be one for it in the first place, it is an animal entirely opportunistic on what comes to the water.

[shrewd rain]

Improved juvenile diets (both carnivore and herbivore):

(1) Keep the adult diets intact for juveniles but add specific juvenile food items that give all three nutrients, but at a lower amount. Juveniles should not just grow on everything but also not be forced into the same biomes as adults if those are really unsuitable (e.g. plains for slowish herbivores).

(2) Juvenile food should give fewer nutrients the bigger you are until they reach 0. This means getting juvenile food sooner gives you more nutrients relative to the food consumed. The exact point at which this happens may depend on species. No more "I need to fill up at 49% to get the maximum nutrient value".

(3) Juvenile food should (only) be found in biomes actually suitable for the specific juveniles. Not all juveniles should have the same food, but they may be a significant overlap, basically creating "nursery biomes".

(4) Juvenile food should come in small, widely distributed but still decently common doses. This would mean small plants (for example orchids growing in the jungle) or small ambient AI (for example frogs hiding between the swamp reeds). They are not meant to be a "fill up and sit around" affair and should not be worth pursuing for bigger animals.

(5) A species can have one food item both as preferred and juvenile food. In this case it always gives the full amount of nutrients in the preferred category but also the shrinking amount for the other nutrients.

[jaunty magnet]

Teno needs to do more damage with tail slam and use less stam whilst doing it as well as fix the hit box for its kick

[hearty niche]

Remove the delay if the utah missed of pounce

[lavish tundra]

Give carno more ai nutrients like idk boar!

[glad urchin]

Increase deinos defense exponentially because it takes like 7 of them to kill a stego

[inland knot]

The stam of carno is really bad. it would be better to make it better.

[stoic cave]

You didnt have to nerf pachy

[sweet rivet]

Remove the weird endlag Utah has when dismounting
Possibly make tail hits not be the killing blows for all dinosaurs
Add tail fractures that reduce turning speed

[cold nacelle]

i've already thrown a suggestion in here but after playing for a while longer and reading even more suggestions, i've got a little bit more to say.
teno feels, "okay", i do agree that the stam cost needs to be reduced if its gonna suck so bad to use. if teno could get a stam buff in general, i think that would help them last a lot longer and make it more worth playing.
additionally i'll yell about pachy a little more. it was almost perfect where it was pre-update. a bit more stam tax on ram makes sense to me, but i feel thats all it wouldve needed. the people that whine about pachy being OP are carnos who dont know how to use their animal. a carno player that knows very well how to play carno could kill a perfect diet, full health, adult pachy in ~4 hits. thats nothing. thats amazingly easy. thats not even with a charge, just 4 left click hits. the ones that whined are the ones that ran into a group of pachy expecting an easy lunch and then realized their actions have consequences. catching a pachy alone, ambushing (carno is quiet af) and getting those 4 hits was an amazingly easy task. not sure why it had to become easier for the facetankers.
diet distribution seems to be the big issue with herbis having trouble surviving. i've been playing teno / pachy and, in the hours that i've played, have really only come across about 1 or 2 of the other species per session. migrating for diet is very risky, which is the intention, but there just isnt much reward in taking that risk to get full diet. you get an additional slim chance of surviving one carno, but gg if theres any more.

EDIT: after some discussion I had it pointed out to me that another issue, and probably one of the bigger ones with post update pachy is the instability in it's ram. From what I've read this appears to be an issue with hitboxes

[rapid eagle]

Oh! this Stegosaurus can kill an 8 ton deinosuchus in 3 hits!! we don't see a problem in that, how about we nerf ptera? i don't get it guys for real.

[terse atlas]

I enjoyed fighting tenos and fighting as tenos much more before this update. Imo each match-up with teno feels less strategic and relies less on the methodical skill of either player and is now completely down to reaction time. Not to mention its odd that teno should theoretically be using its tail as its main form of attack and now it is the last resort below kicking.

[stoic pawn]

Posted from general: Can we get pachy's leg fracture to be as devastating as it used to be? Now it is possible for a carno to heal a leg break in 2 minutes while walking/running. In my opinion a leg fracture should get worse the more the fractured party uses it, which would encourage some caution around pachy. Also if you haven't seen kav's latest vid of carnos fighting herbs, then I recommend checking it out cuz it shows a lot of why carno is a bit op now with U4.5. Link's here to youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQA54SnWosI

[round topaz]

Decrease the drain of Stam for running as a Utah they run out of stam way to fast

[mild moss]

or increase the max. speed Utah can run between 48-50kmh like an Sprinter instead of an marathon runner.

[weary glade]

I think that utahs sucks for this pacth its form animation pounche bc before they dashed out at the moving prey they will use animation for pounche 0.8 sec to crouch before jumping out and what I've noticed is that they do it very badly with pounche It make you run out of fun playing utahs every times. and the other is to turn the utahs its badly really badly their rotation while running should be more fluent more from what I've seen, they should be fixed just as follows.

• more fluently movement,turn
• Improved the playback speed of their pounche animation ( especially in age full adult )
  These are the things that will make them go back to having fun again if Dev ants them to use their abilities rather than a silly runing and bite.

Oh, and one more thing that matters deal with issues related to Hacked
What I've noticed Most often it is chinese player they usually come in the form of female carnos

( This is just a personal suggestion and opinion thx for reading. )

[lavish tundra]

Do something for the cannibal DEINO, it's unplayable, please do something, in real life croc eats hardly never other croc, so why? Do the same things u do for Utah cannibal, indigestion and big nerf Stam, bite, etc PLEASE wooooooow unplayable

[lusty token]

Stegos tail swipe should do less damage and drain more stamina if its in water this would prevent stegos from bullying deinos in their own habitat whilst they can remain as tanks on land. Just a solution I think would work.

[dim forum]

Alr bro I aint even gonna lie, the fucking nerf on raptors is so bad. Okay raptors dont stand a chance against anything slightly bigger. The amount of stamina is now worse then a fucking deino, the bleed dmg on pounce is non existent. Like bro me and my friend tested this in a private server and holy fuck the amount of stamina drainage aint even fun. Like you could get chased down by a stego because the stego has more stamina. That doesnt add upp. Atleast make this some kind of viable for groups. Im not even a raptor main and this is literally insane like wtf.

Summary, Raptor need a stam and bleed more on pounce buff.

Plus side, Pachy nerf. Even tho i do believe the previous patch was more fun and more balanced I do believe realistically this is more accurate. In a one on one fight the pachy have a no chance of killing the opponent however herbivores arent meant to kill other animal, they are meant to run away/defend themself not look for fights. The pachy can if skilled enough just break the legs of said carno or anything else really. If you want a new strategy go straight for the head because you win in that scenario against carnos for some reason since they take not only concussion dmg also gets stunned. In other words they cant see jack shit. Also the pachy can run away super easily from fights. However you cant win fights which i find kind off boring and will make the playstyle alot more just hit and run away. If you want to "win" just pack with other herbivores and use your ability for their advantage. Previous patch was better gameplay wise in a sense off fun however i do like this more realistic approach to the pachy not being over powered in a head on fight more so to run away.

Stego is fine on land as it is I feel like maybe more stamina drainage but no animal is really suppose to be able to beat it anyway as of now not including deinos. However in water they should do less blunt dmg, would be realistic and balanced cuz now they kinda bully deinos

[thick inlet]

decrease the drain of Stam for Utah´s pounce. It drains really fast. When Im fighting, for example, a carno and I use a pounce on him, I only stay like 2 or 3 seconds on him and my stamina is already at 50% or even less. Thats a little bit unbalanced, since I need a lot of bites to kill one, while he (Carno) needs like 2 to 5. And utah supposedly was in packs to take out bigger dinos. So he needs a lot of stamina to be able to be in a dinosaur for some time ( like for example 5 seconds on the dinosaur and drain only 40% or 65%) without draining all before backing off and let the others do the rest of the work in taking out the victim.

[rapid owl]

Suggestion for Deino:
-Remove diet or remove preferred species, the Deino is essentially a water locked animal, being very slow on land and quickly losing water. As an opportunistic predator, having an extremely small hunting ground, coupled with being forced to hope your preferred species come to drink where you are, is very punishing, but also doesn't rely on skill at all but rather if you're lucky enough for your preferred prey is coming for a drink right now or not.

[pallid notch]

To me it doesn't make much sense how carnivores get a very diverse diet but herbivores don't..? I would really like to see herbivores reap at least some kind of benefits from the wide variety of food.

[lavish tundra]

Carno is OP. There’s no counter to them atm. Utah’s stand no chance especially, Carno is faster, turns well enough to catch a turning Utah and beats it on health, DPS and bleed. Why is it the legacy Carno turns like a truck and on Evrima they’re equivalent to an Apex rn? No weakness.

[weary glade]

Form i ever said with fluency of utahs that call DPS and delay animation to pounche utahs its sucks well now its a proof of new problem for utahs they need more fixed
and I will say again that what they should be fixed is as follows.

• increase more DPS for him
• increase more speed pounche animation for him
  I've already said they're got abused this patch and i hope big problem for this patch like " Mega pack carnos " will end on next patch skin update
  thx you every much for reading my advice :)]

[glad urchin]

Leave Carno alone, Fix Utah pounce and maybe hp buff, give teno more stamina, revert pachy nerf, and make deino stand a chance against stego.

[dim forum]

Stego: Is in an okay stage right now since no dinosaur atleast on land is suppose to be able to kill it right now, however it needs a dmg debuff in water since why should it be able to take down a fully grown apex predator (deino) thats in its own enviroment in only four hits. I get it if it was on land but should not work like that in the water. Would not only balance the gameplay but it does make sense because blunt force is slowed in water because of increased resistance (Water is a much more thicc fluid then air in other words.)

Tenno: Is in a perfect place right now, Herbivores are not suppose to hunt down predators rather more punish predators for being aggressive. If you play it correctly you could easily take down one carnos (Tested in ps.) Altough you do need skill and timing with your attacks. Very good matchup for carno one on one.

Pachysaurus: Very realistically balanced. Its a good matchup for raptors and can escape from carnos by concussing them and breaking fracturing their legs. Stamina is good and dmg is balanced. Would advice not to play on open fields and too thicc forests.

Deino: Perfect. Maybe needs a slight dmg buff but that would be the only thing. When other apexes comes out it will naturally become stronger but as off right now its perfect.

Raptors: Stamina drain from pounce, alt attacks and jumping is far too much. I can pounce for maybe 4 seconds and thats all my stamina. Pounce need to do more bleed dmg and take less stamina. Its better just to go for hits if you want to bleed people to death. Stamina is also over all shit. I get they want raptors to be more in woods and stuff but its not going to even in forest where you can hide since the tracking system is a little bit too easy to use, suggestion on that would make it so you need to sniff for maybe three seconds before you can track.

Carno: Same as deino really balanced and good. Sure you need to know how to abuse it to be good but thats not hard at all. Really good as of now.

[ripe condor]

Stamina consumption balance
It seems to me that it would be much more logical if, in the absence of stamina, the animal could fight, but did much less damage and had a much longer attack swing. When an animal is fighting for its life, it will not give up when it is very tired. It will continue to fight to the end.

[gray bone]

Problems with pachy

1. You shouldn't he healing fractures while using the fractured part. Ex: biting with a head fracture will only make it worse. Or for leg fracture it just wouldn't heal until you sit. If it only got worse it would punish carno far to much for disengaging

2. Pachy phases through animals sometimes while attacking. This has been present sense its release.

3. The 10 second stun immunity is good in theory but FAR to long. I'd say a more 5-4 second immunity.

4. Tracking system causes leg fracture to be useless unless comboed with a head fracture and a jungle.

5. Carno's trot while leg fractured shouldn't be faster than pachy's trot.

6. Revert the pachy ram turning nerf. Once a carno gets behind you, you literally cant shake it without a teammate.

7. Pachy's ram tends to cancel or go off by itself. This is another bug that has been here since its release

[merry hare]

i like how every other game makes it so the fastest playable has some major drawback, most of the time it's in damage or agility.

over here 70% of the population is asking for it to at least be the second strongest mid tier.

20% are the people that main carno saying that it "isn't really overpowered"

and the last 10% are people asking for utah buffs.

i know the devs envisioned that 2 of your nutrients would be easy to get, and the third would be hard. in that case, the herbis are how they want em. but why do 3 of the carnivores basically have diets not apply to them. if deino doesn't have a diet that's fine, its an opportunistic hunter. but the reason 90% of the servers are carnos, is because herbivores are so painful to grow, and carnos are like easy mode.

if herbivores stay this weak, that's fine. but make it so they're easier to grow than carnivores, that way there will be more than 3 herbivores on a server.

[little pumice]

Deino needs to be able to hold it's breath for at least 10 minutes

[white tulip]

Possible changes for Tenonto and Deinosuchus

Deino

• Increase oxygen regen

Tenonto

• Increase stamina regen, the current stamina drains too fast but the real problem its the regeneration, since you can't really defend yourself that well if running takes 50% of your current stamina in a matter of 20 seconds or so.

[rare shard]

croc vs stego balanced summed up in 1 vid

[hot nebula]

Honestly I think only 3 dinos right now are actually balanced. This will not be a popular opinion by any means. I AM READY. The carno is pretty much fine, they didn't increase the damage, they didn't change stamina use except for the alt bite and the only buff that was actually given was a very slight increase on walk turning and acceleration. The stego, even though I think they are OP, are not by any means invincible. I have taken down a full grown stego with only 5 Utahs, half of which weren't adults. Utahs are pretty ok from what I can tell as well, not really overpowered and not a ridiculous amount of bleed, just enough to be pretty realistic. The deino is going to be adjusted as more powerful dinos are added to the roster, so i don't think it's really worth talking about at the time. However, ptera, teno, and maybe pachy were nerfed a bit too much and are either useless(ptera) or have their hitboxes messed up/too little damage or not having enough fracture to be useful for the hit and run tactic. I think that fixing the hitboxes should be the main thing right now, after that work on the damage/fracture setting and see how it goes. I don't think these 2 dinos should go back to pre update stats, but I do think that these issues need to be addressed first. I don't play teno, so take what i say with a grain of salt, but i do play pachy sometimes and last I played it, I was able to brawl a creature twice my size and win pretty easily, i don't know how realistic that would be, but I understand why they nerfed pachy. Just got a bit overzealous on some things is all.

[winged canopy]

Nerf Stego for now, but when Allo is added return it to its former glory. They’re enemies as iconic as Triceratops and Tyrannosaurus rex, their stats should counter each other.

[lavish tundra]

Pachy's fractures are quite inconsistent.

I am not exactly certain if it's because of the hitboxes, but after an extensive amount of testing, I have come to find that leg fractures are very very hard to get. Sometimes, hitting a Carno for example (which Pachy is supposed to fracture and escape from) in the leg will not grant a leg fracture, it will be a body fracture, sometimes the leg fracture works but it's not often.

I have tried out several distances, hitting the Carno on it's very "ankles" or "knees", different angles and a big majority of times I just consistently get a body fracture. Leg fracture hitboxes should be made bigger, so we can properly do what the playable is supposed to do when it comes to the Carno match-up.

Another problem with Pachy v Carno match-up is, if you actually get a leg fracture, Carno is still quite fast and it will be able to catch-up with you at least for a bit, which often times leads to the Pachy getting killed.

I understand that Pachy should not be able to defeat Carno in a 1v1 situation, and that is made known, but currently due to the wonky leg-fracture hitboxes, as well as Carno still having quite a lot of speed, it makes it very very hard for Pachy to survive. It also makes it extra hard for Pachy to survive because of the Carno turn-in-place buff, which makes Pachy's attempts of shaking it off by side-stepping or just 180° turn, futile.

And to top all of that off, the fact that now Carno has invincibility frames for a few seconds after Pachy got the stun off, makes it EVEN HARDER to survive. I am not exactly certain if this was intended, but if you try to hit the Carno with a headbutt again after the stun has been made, you technically will "hit" but it won't do damage on the second hit. I think that delay or invincibility frames between headbutts has to be reduced quite a lot, or erased entirely. We should at least be able to still deal damage, even if we do not stun or stagger our hunter.

[round topaz]

You shouldn’t be able to be tail riden very easily by a carnotor because the facts in this video thats why carno was the way it was in legacy https://youtube.com/watch?v=slcVvR7UMik&feature=share fast forward to around 5:23 minutes if you want to know we’re I got my information from

[wheat cove]

deino could use a little more time under water and it's zoom could be more than the others since in water hard to see unless you're near the surface.

[steep delta]

buff ptera its nerf is completly pointless

[cerulean rock]

1. Increase deino's oxygen across the board. Boost how long it can stay underwater and increase how fast its oxygen replenishes.

2. Let deino regain oxygen even faster by holding Q at the surface. Why? Because it makes sense. You're sniffing and breathing in deeper, it should affect your oxygen.

You're also making a ton of noise doing so, which gives the unique strategic option of either quickly regenning oxygen to hide under the surface asap at the cost of something nearby potentially overhearing your noise if you're too close-- or you can stay quiet and let it regen slowly at the cost of potentially being spotted if you don't play your cards right.

It adds more unique gameplay to a creature that's essentially waterbound and can't efficiently do the one thing it's made for rn.

[worn rivet]

Pounce is just a trash move. Barley useable. I have no problem with carno just bring back U2 Utah stats and things will be fine

[junior gull]

Juvie deino needs its food drain increased a decent amount, and is definitely a contributing factor to why there are a lot of adults running around. The other day I grew one and realized I should really be doing other stuff around the house. Instead of logging off I said let’s see how hard you can afk this thing. I filled up and hid myself as best I could, got up and took a shower, did some laundry checked and realized I still had 3/4s food. Said okay let’s just keep going. Filled up again, went upstairs, ordered lunch, watched some tv till it was ready, left the house, drove 15 minutes away to get the food, came back realized I still had a lot of time before I ran out of food, ate lunch and then went back down to my almost 50% deino. Filled up quick before I hit 50% and I had a basically free ride to adulthood. None of this is an exaggeration, and almost half of my growth time was entirely invalidated. While I think other things with carnivore diets definitely need to be changed I will wait until gore to provide any feedback on that, but either way I definitely feel that food drain needs to be looked at now for under 50% deinos. At least if you want to AFK grow a stego you need to worry about water which keeps you a bit more engaged.

[floral pier]

playing a deino I find it really hard to wait and ambush due to how short the oxygen is for an adult. i think as a juvi it makes sense for it to be the length it is but once you're full grown all you must do in order to play naturally is to do the waiting game, that's the whole point, its the playstyle of a deino. i think as an adult the oxygen drain should be decreased to at least 7-10ish minutes because otherwise it wouldn't feel as tense in gameplay either when I'm constantly having to look at my o2 bar, hoping it doesn't run out by the time that the carno I'm following through the river finally decides to drink. having that much time underwater gives you leniency to be sneaky, rather than feeling like you're constantly running out of time which leads to deinos acting clumsy
besides i think deino should be able to see more clear, some parts of the water are genuinely just mud

[delicate wren]

Everyone is mad about the carno problem, I am too, but there has been another problem that was ignored for 2 updates now: the small bois.

Dryo needs a speed or agility buff to actually be able to run. I’d say just remove the delay on dodge, allow us to control the direction, and increase its distance. That way the ability is actually useful and not a detriment. You can then nerf it if it’s “too easy to escape” after burrowing is added.

Hypsi NEEDS climbing to be viable. Without it, it’s just a worse dryo that can troll. It turns worse than carno now and is slower than any predator, other than croc of course. And then the devs nerfed it even more in update 3.

Ptera is being nerfed to the floor so hard it shouldn’t be able to get off the ground. It basically loses 1v1s to babies as an adult. Yet the devs still want to nerf it.

All around, the small guys need help, not nerfs.

[lavish tundra]

Was it really necessary to nerf dryos stam? I mean, it is slower and weaker than the two land carnis and now you can´t even use your own skill to hopefully outlast them anymore... Not to mention its food is all out in the plains so you can´t hide.

[dry pawn]

Buff Ptera so it can kill Juvies

[carmine oasis]

Nerf deinos when it’s on land

[subtle gulch]

The only reason herbis were "op" is because they all congregated at oasis in impossible to kill megapacks, now diet is more spread out and oasis got nuked
There was no reason to nerf teno or pachy, especially pachy
Give herbis their update 4 stats back and stop getting salty when you can't facetank them

Also giving carno better acceleration and turning was a horrible idea

[rancid pilot]

Making the carno faster and more maneuverable makes it to a good hunter. Of the land dinosaurs that hunt, it is now at the top of the food chain.

The Pachy was able to fight off Update 4's Carno alone. Don't kill him, but gain respect. It was more difficult to fight for a Carno with two pachys.
But now improving the carno like this and AT THE SAME TIME weakening the pachy like this, makes the pachy a little less fun.
The Carno adjustment alone would have been enough in duels (carnos vs pachy) and in groups. I found it a bit unnecessary to weaken the Pachy because he can hardly defend himself / survive now.

[dry mesa]

I think deino's diet is unbalanced. If you play deino, you rely on your luck to find the necessary animals. Fish, deino, utah, carno and stego is not that hard to find. However, as far as I see pachy and teno population is relatively small most of the time. You are lucky if there are enough players playing the necessary animals in the server. If you are not, you are going to get a punishment because of your bad luck. So I think you should add different types of AIs for each nutritient so deinos can find food or completely remove diet preference for deino so it can get little bit of every nutritient. I think at some point deino diet was like that. I do not know why you changed it.

[onyx granite]

make herbies great again and revert the herbi nerfs, just a slight decrease to the stun immunity window and a tighter turn on pachy, not like before cuz it was pretty silly that a pachy can keep its momentum after a sharp turn but a much tighter turn then now so a carno cant “out skill” you and tail ride you to death cuz of the pachy's aids turning, the game is so boring to play as a herbi when u literally sit on a rock all day and run across the map to grow. utter boredom. and carno should not be able to face tank more then 4 teno tail slams to the head.

[lavish tundra]

Please, buff ptera

1. there are to small
2. they can kill nothing

Gameplay of ptera are " Eat fish, drink water, and die"

[inner knoll]

Revert the balance changes. Examples of how dogshit it is right now:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXadP2yJcJk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVnSPODEBvQ

[worn rivet]

2 carnos destroyed 10 raptors this has gotta be a joke.

[merry hare]

just straight up, the diet system is pure dog right now.

what it tells you on the panel is that you get 120% growth increase. INCREASE. by the way this is phrased you should be growing more than twice as fast. instead, it was made to be that 100% is the standard growth, ok bad wording but ok.

before i go into the problem, and why tf tenos growth has been extended for no reason. this problem, applies to herbivores. 99% of the servers being carnivores isn't just because carno is over tuned, and carnivore bias. it's because herbivores diets are dog.

so with the wording, you would get AT BEST, a 20% increase to your standard growth. and at worse. you would grow at not just 0%, but -50%. you aren't trying to grow faster, you're just trying to not grow slower than an apex in legacy as a fucking teno. a dino that currently can get bodied by 1 carno

each dino also has this growth tick speed. for example pachy's growth tick hits every 30 seconds. stegos used to be somewhere around 3 minutes. where as tenos is 1m15s. with 2 diets, teno grows .6% per tick. that's about 166 ticks to full adult. that is 166 sets of 1m15s. or around 200 minutes of growth. 3.5ish hours.

that's bad, but what's worse, is when teno has 3 nutrients. it grows at a simple 1% per tick. same tick speed. 115 minutes to full adult teno, if you had all three nutrients the entire time (which you will never have) tenos growth before the diet system was 105 minutes, so you're telling me, i have to run literally across the fucking map, through the carno mega packs and shit, just to get a growth time that AT BEST is 10 minutes slower than before. more realistically, itll be around 130 minutes.

I have to run across the map to get that shit growth, and yet i can afk grow a carno to full. in the same time...

i just cant with this game.

[onyx granite]

fractures shouldnt heal whilst moving around. they should get worse. This brings "walk it off" to a whole new level in a realistic game and my immersion is broken 😡

[rocky ember]

how i can fight carno as utah when im 3 hits he outrun and out turn and when i pounce then i pounce air revert herbi/carno stats to update 4

[next silo]

alright, im just going to say it. Carno was just fine pre update, teno too, maybe the stun could use a little bit of a nerf, but what y'all did was too much, cut in HALF the best attack of teno, now it only has kick which does more damage, ok, but its range is absolute dogshit. the tailslam should do 250 MINIMUM, I mean, carno BITE does 175, do tailslam should do more than that 100%. not the same!? Carno wasn't bad before the update, people kept on complaining because they were using carno as a fucking utah. you cant just go into a tail bite and hope to get away with it, especially at your size, you are GOING to get hit if you are a solo carno vs a solo teno and you both know each others presence, the teno should and WOULD win that fight. Carno is an AMBUSH predator, why on EARTH would it win whithout using its ambush tactics. I am actually fuckin done with some people, its SOOO much easier to hit a BITE than to hit a TAILSLAM, then WHY TF are some people defending the fact that tailslam does the same amount as carno bite being fair? I get the stun, but still, stun for what? after the 3 second stun, the teno is missing half of its stamina and you are stun free for the next 10 seconds. Carno SHOULD NOT be able to win over a teno unless it gets the ambush, because the only way a teno is going to survive is by defending itself, so if carno wins majority of the time, then where's the balance? Carno should only win if it gets the ambush on an unsuspecting teno. If Carno wins with ambush, why does carno still win with a straight head to head 1v1? Teno should take that, being slower, and being able to not run away, while carno can.

[lavish tundra]

Here’s literally all you gotta do.

Teno: increase damage in kick a bit more, decrease stan cost on Tailslam.

Pachy: revert the ram tut nerf it was uneeded

Carno: Make it have bad turning, but not as much as it used to have, give it much better stamina. If you give a creature amazing turning + bad stamina it basically becomes the combat dinosaur which is not what Carno is supposed to be. Carno isn’t supposed to be able to turn like a Utah

[golden pecan]

Agreed, the amount of times I've perfectly timed and angled a kick to where it is going to hit the carno (literally directly into its body because it tries to run through my ass directly behind my legs) and it doesn't hit is amazing. Not to mention the charge is so spammable now and hits when it shouldn't. Why should I still get punished and lose hp if I very obviously dodge the charge but my tail is still nipped from it? The same can go for teno though with the tip of the tail stunning, which you are still able to do but it does much less damage now. I want to like carno, but I just can't this patch. Its charge is such a nice ability to use to catch something off guard or like you said ambushing, but I find a lot, not all, carnos this patch charge any chance they get even in a close range battle which teno should be perfect for dealing with, but can't because carno just accelerates way too fast. Carno was fine before the patch at most it's drift turn and charge turn buffs should stay, but the acceleration needs to be toned down or completely reverted. Before the patch a lot of carnos would fight long range, because that's where the charge worked best, but now they face tank with no consequences. This is just my personal opinion though, I can only speak from the tenonto side of things because I play it a lot more and have experienced some ridiculous things.

[verbal scarab]

Carno has way too much stam in my opinion.
It makes sense that they're the fastest running dino bc of how aerodynamic they are which makes it more realistic.
but if they're able to run that fast I feel they should have a lot less stamina
bc it's almost impossible to get away from a carno that's chasing you just by juking it
the only times I've survived a carno attack is by juking it until something else distracted it so I could hide in a bush
too many people are playing carnos this wipe
If I go by hotspots all I hear is carno broadcast 24/7

[wheat cove]

honestly think dinos should be set to as close to what actual data we know about them, keep nerfing things and buffing things and it's this constant back and forth, you get something good and then either nerf or buff it and it's no good anymore and it's this continuous barrage of complaints and stuff every time. I get the point of where you want to keep the game balanced for every one, but in that case just make every dino the same, sarcasm ... anyway. be nice to just have the dinos close to natural and let the cards fall where they may.

[dawn hamlet]

Amazing Devs, you guys are working hard and it’s super appreciated, but next update PLEASE be careful with what you buff, and what you nerf! NOBODY pre-patch was asking for the tenos tail slam to be nerfed, nobody wanted the carno buffed.

90% of agreed with complaints were about A) Pachy’s turning and stun, or B) stegos insane health, or C) the failure of the Utah pounce to land

I don’t know anybody that seriously was asking for a carno buff. This mf now has been buffed so it spins around like a ballerina and it’s charge is spammable, and If that doesn’t work they just face tank 😂

If the patch just nerfed the pachy and maybe some changes to stam, that would’ve been fine

[stable leaf]

Idea to support jungle dwelling dinos like magy against big predators like allo:

Jungle dinos in a certain size range could run through foliage like we do now, without any impact to speed/agility.
Bigger dinos and those that aren't made to be in a jungle could be affected by the foliage, lose much more stamina when trying to sprint through, maybe drastically reduced speed the denser the foliage is, maybe affecting agility, turn speed etc too so the jungle dinos can escape.

So if for example a magy goes on the plains to eat something and sees an allo/carno etc running towards it, it has the option to flee into the dense forest (maybe nearby if it's lucky/smart) and run deep into it. Maybe sounds like a easy way out but the jungle is full of terror, smaller terror.

Thx for reading.

[vocal helm]

either revert the carno buffs and keep the herbivore nerfs or revert herbivore nerfs and keep carno buffs

[cerulean rock]

Stuff like this is really sad tbh. 5-6 carnos waiting around/trying to climb up a rock to get at 1 utah.

While I do agree that some jungle needed to be cut back, removing so much of it exacerbated the carno population issue along with the buffs. I never really see utahs anymore and when I do, it's in situations like this-- stuck up on rocks surrounded by carnos because the jungle is so few and far between they can't really escape them and just get run down in open plains.

[sullen dock]

Please remove the delay when you miss a pounce as an utah it doesn't make any sense

[lofty sigil]

Currently I find a whole Utah pack very weak. It must be possible to kill a Teno with seven Utahs. A lone Utah shouldn't be as strong as a Carno, of course, but when a pack goes hunting they should succeed too - and not be reduced to three or four Utahs because one misjump is enough for the others to kill you instantly.

What I mean to say: a single Utah is hardly dangerous for large dinosaurs, but a pack is.

Regarding the jump attack, you shouldn't be stopped so abruptly after a misjump, or just not for so long. Also, when the Utah is attached to a Teno/Carno, the stamina should drop a bit slower or deal more damage/bleed.

I don't think it's proportionate that a Teno could kill half a pack of Utahs just like that.

But other than that, the Utah is really fun to play 🙂

[worn rivet]

Pounce is atrocious at close range. I could be right next to something, pounce, and I just phase through my target like a ghost. Not only that I also get stunned giving my target ample time to hit me with any one of their moves that either kills me, does massive damage, or stuns me.

[stable leaf]

Setting up ambush as deino (even in groups of 2) is a bit hard to get close to, since your outline is visible if you move under water and have to precisely hit the target, manage your oxygen which runs out fast and takes a while to replenish and guess the preys weight to measure your chances.
I'm not an expert deino player but I'd say more fun jumps ares would happen if either the deinos are not visible unless sprinting underwater or having it refill its oxygen at a faster rate (maybe you'd have to get on land to bask to get fastest refill value) or maybe raise the oxygen pool overall (not by much).

Fact is people already learn where to drink safely and as deino you have to plan your strategy beforehand anyway which is hard when the timer is running low once you only reached the right spot to ambush from.
Just my opinion, maybe I'm wrong cause I've not played lots of deino yet, this has been my experience so far (since latest patch).

Thank you for reading.

[worn merlin]

About Tenontosaurus ...

The Animal Just Doesn't Have The Ability To Fight A Carnotaurus Or Two, Or Even A Few Utahs Sometimes!
Your stamina is bad, Now we have to take care of it a lot, Our defense is very limited, simple attacks Consume a lot of stamina, It's too easy to 'die'.
Maybe... if you reduced the consumption of stamina in his attacks, it would be better, the animal is very limited, it's not very cool to play with him, you depend a lot on groups, What is a little annoying, because the island is so big, finding groups is not easy!

**In short: ** Decreases the stamina consumption of Tenontosaurus attacks.

[little sinew]

Not only pachy is extremely out of place by being forced to go into the plains where there are carnos everywhere, what was the point of giving carno acceleration and nerfing the pachys turn on charging an attack? Yes everyone knows a pachy should not mess with a carno. It should fear it, it's bigger, stronger and wants to eat it's guts. But it came to the point where if you aren't near a rock that you can climb on top you can't escape. You can't ram it because you don't have the space and manuverability to do so anymore once the carno gets behind you, and with the new carno acceleration it's impossible to shake him off your tail to get the momentum to fracture it and try to escape afterwards, the new acceleration makes it impossible to create enough distance to even get a chance to strike it once. I've tried this in a enviroment full of vegetation, guess what... it didn't work either due to the fact that this scent system is essencially wall hacks. You can't stagger the carno with your alt ram it's too big, you can't outswim it he will catch you even if you get the jump start (thats pretty much the only way to deal with carnos as a teno). The only solution to survive an encounter is fracture it before he can even see you (ambush it) and then run away, or just don't be seen at all (good luck with that with the amount of carnos roaming around). Honestly the best solution is simply not getting ur agave and avoid the grasslands. With the herbivore nerfs i'm pretty sure carno would still come out on top easily, it has always been a dumb and faceroll dinosaur to play considering how much bigger it is than 75% of the rest of the roster. Now it's just even dumber and stupid and the player numbers show that well. Carno feels like a brawler as it is right now, before you actually had to try and surprise your prey to get a clean kill, now you it's press Shift W and spam left clicks because the game allows you to do so. Carno became stego 2.0, no brains required for ez rewards.

[indigo ice]

Teno needs some help right now. You guys reduced its damage output, but didn't compensate with less stamina use. Because of this, teno can't effectively fight carnos anymore. I propose 2 buffs.

Reduce the stamina cost of tail slam from 10% to 7%. This lets you do 14 slams instead of just 10. Slam no longer has the damage output to warrant 10% of your stamina being used.

Increase Teno's stamina regeneration by a bit. This will assist it in both fighting and escaping danger.

These buffs won't make Teno oppressive like it was last patch but not bad like in this one.

[ruby sluice]

nerf stegos health and damage...they shouldn’t be able to go against 3 crocs and be able to win or scare them of so easily or buff croc

[indigo ice]

Decrease how well carno can drift. Carno is much too agile and feels more like a fast rex or Allo rather than carno. Make it so it takes more time to come to a stop when you drift so more agile animals can properly escape.
While you're at it revert the acceleration buff, carno doesn't need it, it lets it brawl and turn too well.

[pallid notch]

Okay here is what should balance things out: nerf stego damage, nerf Carno turn even more, buff Utahs pounce damage not the way it used to be, but more than it is now

[livid igloo]

Carno / Stego are over tuned

Pachy / Teno are under tuned

Ptera needs to be more interesting in term of diets / hunting possibilities

Carnivores should get 3 diets buff from anything up to a lower point, something like 25% instead of 50%. It is way too easy currently to find a caracass, eat it and full yourself up at 49% and basically almost AFK grow the whole thing.

I do like the idea that herbies having to migrate more and so that they can't just hangout in one spot (oasis) and have to take more risks. HOWEVER, you guys paired that with a bunch of nerfs + buffs to carno which is essentially a double nerf + nerf to diet which ends up being a triple nerf. Result is: everyone plays carno and the few who attempt to play herbies are over hunted and need to take disproportionate risks for their diet.

[shrewd rain]

A slight weakening of my idea on juvenile diets (#balance-feedback message):

(1a) Juvenile diets might not always give all 3 nutrients, especially for animals who have little issue getting diet food. This would mean those juveniles would still have to visit some of the typical biomes to get all nutrients, instead of "just" benefiting from getting higher amounts from the adult diet food.

[next silo]

Give some love to utah. Buff the pounce, not in damage, or bleed. but in slowing down your opponent and draining stamina if they try running, also bucking juvie utahs shouldnt cost stamina, but bucking off a full grown utah should cost a lot more. depending on your size it should match the stamina drain for bucking.

[potent chasm]

Tiny little bug with Utah where sometimes if you pounce at a creature, you'll sort of latch on to the air instead of the creature. It seems like a little desync/lag problem, but it's still real annoying sometimes.

[stoic cave]

A lot of the Utah balance has to do with its buggyness of pounce as well

[lucid shore]

either a terrible idea or good idea but down the path after update 7 or during update 7 implement a anaconda or titana boa such creature ut would help cintrol big herbis with strangulation and smaller animals with a bite not to mention they are semi aquatic so it could help combat the deino and once tree climbing is a thing it would then help to get species hiding in the trees i think a cool experrience, something new and would have good balance

[round topaz]

Please give dieno more biteforce right now it takes 3 or more to take down 1 stegosaurus I’m surprised it isn’t 800n or900n to begin with because of this simple fact right here

[haughty zodiac]

ok then, where to start.... what the hell is this patch????
Worst patch of the evrima cycle in terms of balance.
Who is the genius who buffed carno_..... the only dino who really needed a nerf... don't listen to carnos players, they have everything and other players have nothing...
I should just say, this is easier, take away the carno and stego. They don't fit in with the current roster...
Summary of what we see and hear in this patch
1Carnos
2Stegos
3Deinosuchus
4Hypsi......

Summary of what we see and hear in the last patch
1Carnos
2Stego
3Deinosuchus
4Tenonto
5Pachy
6Utah
7Ptera
8Dryo
9Hypsi

Here is the summary of this patch I will not speak about the performances because it is a logical thing...although when we see this patch...

I am one of the players who complains about the patch without making a fuss. But my experience in the last few days, now I have to put my fist on the table. Stop. Don't make nerfs and buffs just to say look we are changing stuff.... no please don't do that anymore. it totally destroyed the present balance.
Sure it needed nerfing but it's not nerfing it's just blowing up the stats like blowing up oasis.

How you should have nerfed the dinos:
Priority:
Carno and his agility at full speed shouldn't have near trotting agility
fix how the bite is calculated so no hitbox bigger than carno's head.

Stego as you have done this is good it's on the diet side that it's not too scattered for a juv but doable.

Deino nothing to say because not played since patch 3

Tenonto doesn't get tail nerf and stamina consumption with the attacks. Tail slam should have a little nerf not what he got. Scatter diet plants.

Pachy got a good buff in juv but the adult nerf not... his alternate attack deserved a little handling but not as much. One utah against a pachy was greatly in pachy's favor, even 4 utahs against a pachy, if he could play could do something but could do too much when more than 4 utahs were present so still needed to do something.

Utah was balanced..... just.... the pounce that had to be stabilized but not changed..... now we pounce 3 seconds and we don't have stam.... and we don't inflict bleed anymore.

Hypsi what you have done is quite stable but I never find these mushrooms

dryo not played so not enough notice in the current patch

Ptera no comments...

Devs please.... don't make decisions to make decisions. Take the time to think about the balance of the game, otherwise you risk getting feedback that you don't want or that is not necessary. Even if you are working on other dinos, take time to think about the animals that are already there. As I said before, I complain silently but this is too much.

[vocal helm]

revert carno buffs and keep herbivore nerfs or vice versa

[ruby sluice]

revert the utah nerfs i see no utahs being played and it hurts to see that my fav dino to play rn is unplayable bc of the pounce bugs the low stam and terrible bleed damage and the fact you buffed carnos to dominate. if you are going to buff carnos then revert the nerfes and lower the stun timer after a missed pounce.

[sullen dock]

Let Utah be able to pounce in bush

[round topaz]

Explaining wat my point is incase you don’t understand what I’m saying

[versed olive]

buff utahs stamina to be a little longer and buff utahs bleed

[glossy gate]

Tenos need debuff ngl so do stegos a 23% Julie stego should not be able to kill an adult Carno, I was the stego in that situation but it shouldn't happen

[vocal helm]

increase pachy’s hp slightly, make fractures more reliable as well as the hitboxes and stuns, and slightly increase its stamina

[winter locust]

Nerf carno bite, no way that thing has a good bite.

[spring rover]

Its been said a bunch now, but Carno turn speed is too high at the moment. I find that escaping a decent carno as utah takes more mind games than jukes now. Before the carno turn speed buff you could just hard cut at an angle and be okay, but now you have to fake a direction then go the opposite way in order to get it to turn enough to enter skid animation.

[brave imp]

Carnos Stamina gets worse when growing but they dont get faster (ramming juvie barely wastes stam but goes as fast as an adult Carno that is not ramming)... Is that supposed to be that way?

[gentle tartan]

my lord give teno some bleed resist, its not enough he has BS stam regen and stam costs, but bleeds like hes gonna die from a paper cut

[rotund garden]

Perhaps implementing a small buff when Dino’s that are meant to be grouped actually do group, the whole “better in numbers” concept?? It could also just be used for smaller dinos, just to encourage packs and groups????

[sullen dock]

Remove utahs pounce miss timer

[little sinew]

Revert carno's acceleration, it's too oppressive, if a carno turn slides it shouldn't be able to be on top of you straight away. Plus something with nearly 2 tons would take a while to accelerate after drifting. With the recent charge buff he can turn while charging pretty decently the acceleration buff was overkill. If a carno misses his charge/charges, he shouldn't be able to gain momentum so easily to instantly be on top of something (90% of the time something smaller) spamming bites and getting pretty much the same result as if it hit the charge. In terms of power it feels strong but it's the excessive mobility that is making it so oppressive.

Also take a look at damage taken when being hit in the tail, there are ocasions where it feels extremely high.

[indigo ice]

Utilising a fractured body part should slow the speed or prevent it from healing. A carnotaurus should not be able to heal off a leg fracture while in a fight with a Pachycephalosaurus. It's utterly rediculous.

Biting while head fractured and moving while leg/body fractured should slow or stop healing of that fracture.

[void orbit]

I see alota people complaining abt the carnivores scent tracking being too easy- but honestly I think the reason it's so broken is cause there's no proper counter to it

Add wallowing back to river banks, or add more, way more, places to wallow in general. That was a way to hide your scent -- a counter.

Mud pools are too far and few between to be such an important mechanic -- hiding your scent and aiding in healing.

[ruby sluice]

i dont think they should completely remove it but should shorten the stun timer after a missed pounce

[worn rivet]

Pounce is completely unusable close range. I could be standing right next to someone and go right through them. To only be stunned juuuust long enough for a Carno to kill me with 2 headshots. It’s almost funny at this point. It would be one thing if the attack worked 100% of the time so if I missed it was a skill issue. However the move almost always glitches and if it does I die because of it.

[ruby sluice]

Make it so foot prints don’t disappear or stay for a long time cuase if we have that it will really give that hunting and tracking down your pray aspect to the game

[versed olive]

bruh i got the pvp music even tho i died and i switched to a nother dino

[hot nebula]

The balance between the dinos is shot, we all know that. However reverting the changes to pre update is not the way to go about this. We need fine tuning(small changes). For example, i think the turning on the carno is fine, but i would tone back the acceleration buff by 30% to prevent the spam of ramming. The teno’s spammed tail slam pre update and now carnos are spamming ram(spamming is cringe). I would also decrease the debuff on teno damage by like 30-40%, i think if that was done then the current stam would be ok. Then obviously work on hit registration, pachy ram and teno kicks have a hard time registering as hitting so. Fix or tweak those issues and see how it works. If it sucks, tweak it a bit and test again.

[novel sail]

Quick ways to improve Deino:

1. Give him guaranteed fractures with his bite and critical hits and if he bites a leg or a head. Or at least make Stegos die in two hits from the head.

2. Grapple mechanics when? Deino ahould choose to hold onto whichever limb he bites, even the head. I would love to see a mechanic where the longer Deino bites down, the worse fractures become and the more damage he does over time with his bite.

3. Allow Deinos to drown dinos 75% of their weight if both they and their target are swimming because of how buoyancy works and to give them an edge in their own turf.

4. Death Roll. Deino does a single roll on land to apply heavy fracture damage. In the water, it guarantees a full fracture.

5. Allow multiple Deinos to lunge grab a target and engage in tug of war to bring it in the water. You can't gell me 3 Deinos can't work together to drag a Stego underwater.

Edit: why the hate? I just want to see Deino not get bodied by shit half its weight. At least give it some sort of advantage over swimming prey. There is NO reason why Deino should be clapped by stego in the water when Deino could easily grab its leg and take it down. I get it, Deinos fighting stegos on land should be at a disadvantage, but make it a 50-50 fight if Deino aims for the head consistently. In the water, Stego should lose because it is half Deino's weight and the tail attack should be less effective in the water.

[vocal helm]

instead of all this, simpy give the deino the death roll as a combat mechanic that would do light-medium fracture damage, a fuck ton of base damage and would waste a lot of stamina, and would require you to look only in the direction your prey is in and any interruption would cancel the attack

[astral bramble]

All Ai swim faster than a deino. I dont think a pig could out swim an alligator let alone a compy.

[shrewd rain]

With all the (rightful) complaints about Carno I would like to state that its hunger drain is actually way better than it was, without being too easy. What makes surviving as Carno too easy are the following:
(1) Boar abundance - junk food that prevents starvation for even the worst players, see #ai-feedback
(2) Juvie diets - easymode growth boost that gives fast growth to almost everyone, makes Carnos grow much faster than Tenontos in practice
(3) Carno cannibalism - instead of getting less food when there are more Carnos, Carnos actually get more food and nutrition, packs come with their own food reserve

Other than the cannibalism part, Carnos diet list is quite well designed. Replacing Carno with Deino could fix that while still playing into the risk-taking aspect.

[vocal helm]

to add something i forgot to mention here, this would be a replacement for the lunge when the prey item is above 4 tons

[next silo]

I feel like herbivores need a slight growth buff, since you gotta travel the whole map, you cant always have perfect diet, so a growth buff for them would be nice

[subtle saddle]

stego needs a nerf ASAP when theres a pack of 5 adult stegos roaming around and body camping there isnt a dino in the game that can fight them. It takes multiple dienos to kill a stego which doesnt make sense and shows how OP they are. Add a apex dino to at least stand a chance against it or nerf the stego so dienos and maybe even a pack of carnos could take 1 on but in the current state it is too broken and basically ruins the game and fun

[delicate wren]

I have thought of some balance changes that could make pachy fun to play again. I split these into 2 categories, Quality of Life/Necessity and Further changes.

QoL and Necessity changes are the ones I definitely want to see next update and they will likely not make pachy op, but make it better and more fun.

1. Fix the hitboxes on bash. When you hit a carno, half the time it breaks a different bone than you hit or your hit doesn't register. They should use something like the "favor the shooter" method. If you hit something on your side, then that should be the hit.
2. Guarantee breaks on a hit. At the moment, a carno with a perfect diet takes 2 rams to break a bone, but if you don't get the break the first try, you're screwed. Make it a guaranteed break, unless the pachy has a poor diet.
3. Fix the carno charge + pachy ram interaction. At the moment, if a pachy rams a charging carno, they both break a bone. However, the carno could get a head or rib break, and the pachy could get a rib break or leg break (which is just death). This inconsistency (essentially rng) is very annoying at times. Change it to only a rib break for both carno and the pachy. That way whoever has the most stam wins.

Further changes are larger balance changes to do if pachy still needs more help.
4. Decrease stam cost of running. Keep how much stam is costed for its attacks, they are not bad. However, after breaking a bone and scaring off a predator, pachy has a hard time running away.
5. Rework the tracking system. If you are bleeding at all, it is near impossible to escape from a predator, even through the jungle.
7. Change stun immunity. Make it exponential rather than fixed. Such as 2 sec of immunity for first hit, then 4, 8, etc. That way it stops stun locking, but allows pachies to combo hits.
8. Allow pachy to turn faster while charging ram and staying still. That way you can still hit a carno that is breathing down your neck, but not be able to turn and run at them.

[thick ether]

SCENT SYSTEM

Herbivore
stationary: while standing still, herbis should be able to reveal a radius of tracks, blood and gore in the area, like the increasing scent radius we have now, except not as big. It's unfair that herbivores can't assess traffic and red flags in an area to determine risk. If you manage to be tracked down by an herbi who who has to stop for 5-15 seconds to sniff out prints in a radius you honestly deserve it, this isn't busted. The longer you sniff, the larger the radius you reveal up to a maximum, so sniffing for 2 seconds won't let herbivores track anyone anyway.

Walking/trotting: Let herbivores smell plants, megapack clouds and water on the move, there's no good reason not to allow this. It's baffling how stubborn the devs have been on this simple QoL change that creates no balance problems whatsoever.

Carnivore
varying strengths Some carnivores should be better or worse at tracking. A carno should be a bad tracker, a utah should be a good tracker, a rex should be a great tracker. Track scent should disappear after a set time depending on the tracker species. A carno shouldn't be smelling tracks over 5 minutes old, a utah should. a utah shouldn't be smelling tracks over 10 minutes old, a rex should. Maybe some predators could see clearer paths than others. This could help forest animals lose a plains oriented predator in a chase, because a carno shouldn't be tracking through a jungle. also, GET RID OF THE ARROW

Terrain: Different sounds register for different terrain, so why not tracks too? Terrain can hold less scent, but more obvious foot imprints, or hold scent for longer or shorter periods. By running on mud, your scent lasts for a very short time, but you leave deep tracks that are easy for anyone to see without sniffing. Walking on grass leaves clear scented tracks that last for a long time, in the forest, these tracks can be obscured by foliage and therefor more difficult for large animals to keep track of.

[sudden drum]

You also have to think about that a Deathroll is breaking Bones and is ripping of a huge amount of flesh. So hes probably gonna bleed out very fast. I mean Deino could probably rip of Stegos Head or Leg and i think with a lost leg your going to bleed out very fast.

But the whole thing here has nothing to do with Balancing in my Eyes it has something to do with the realism which is important in a Horror Survival Game at least for me. Even irl some Animals have no chance against something else and thats it there is nothing that can be changed or can be done but thats Nature. You have to be focusd all the time otherwise you Die in this Game. Im also saying that Deino right now or rather his Biteforce is absolutly nothing to what he had irl before he went extinct. I mean that Huge Crocodile had double the Bite force of the T rex. I think Deino had a biteforce of 102 Kilonewton or something like that and hes using 500N in this Game that is 0,5% of his real Biteforce which is insane. So you cant tell me that Deino wouldnt be able to ripp of Stegos Head with one Bite and a Deathroll. But its still just a Game but has to be a bit realistic in my Opinion.

[next silo]

make running with leg fracture make it last a lot longer, I feel like running at 30+ km as a carno with leg fracture should make it last a lot longer, it should make the bones worse overtime.

[fresh moss]

Make it so grappling utahs can be knocked off on trees/rocks again but reduce the punishment to the utah player for doing so, maybe just a forced dismount with a brief stagger instead or the severity depending of the speed the grappled player was running at. It was a neat feature that made sense and added a bit of strategy/positioning to combat.

[vale seal]

Increase Teno kick range or buff tailslam back up.

you stun something with kick/slam then have to reposition to kick it again because its slide out of range of your kick? Just bad gameplay.

[frosty owl]

PLLLLLLEASEEEE NERF CARNOS. I don't care if that is the only thing that comes in the next patch, that is how badly i feel that we need the carnos to return to their prior state before update 4.5 came out. There is an unbelievable amount of carnos packs of 6 or more just running around the map and killing literally everything in sight, and it is infuriatingly annoying.. and the sad thing is, is that most of the people playing carno right now are not even good at the game. For the most part, they actually suck. Carno is just that blatantly over-powered, to the point where nothing else even stands a chance. please so something to encourage small packs for mid-tier and apex carnivores. Just some kind of simple mechanic would do. carnos should only be allowed to make a pack of up to 3, as it states on the ingame pack menu. more than 3 carnos just makes for an overpowered gang of death-hungry reptilians that stop at nothing to kill anything. PLEASE do something about Carnotaurus, and PLEASE. Do it soon.

[ivory bay]

My experience on the few animals that I have played on this update:

Tenonto - I've played it by far the most and it's really fun, it feels good, finally uses all the attacks with each one of them having a specific use. The only issue is that tailslam's stamina cost is too high, This attack's very niche because of that, you never really want to use it when you're below half stamina even when the situation is correct and allows for its use. I'd say decrease the stamina cost down to perhaps 7%? It should give Tenonto more of a reason to use this attack as it definitely has a couple of uses in the current game, it's just too costly. Overall Tenonto feels really good. Probably the most entertaining animal in the game to play, at least imo.

Carno - It's good, it serves its purpose well, being good vs small animals while performing poorly against the larger ones, but the issue with it is - Carnos just sort of pile up into one big death ball that starts rolling around the map killing almost everything in its path? I've had a tonne of fun fighting Carnos as a Tenonto 1v1, even 1v2 was a scenario that I could survive but there's just rarely a situation where there's just one or two Carnos. They shouldn't be grouping much at all. A small game hunter shouldn't do that as a specialist animal like this is extremely overbearing when allowed to group into such a large pack, it's also really unfitting as it is supposed to hunt small game that wouldn't really be able to feed a larger pack. This doesn't mean that it's without its issues. 2 things to change about it:

1. its infamous "bite hitbox" - Carno lands bites from outside of its range depending on the camera placement.
2. its bleed should be lowered. I'd go down to 0.7 bleed multiplier for it. It's just silly that a pursuit predator gets to apply this much bleed. Other than these issues the animal is ok.

my suggestion about Carno grouping:
#general-feedback message

[onyx granite]

https://discordapp.com/channels/401464048610312193/778350260027129865/957066790985408583 i second up this, please take at least some of this into consideration

[lavish tundra]

I like the game but quit worrying on animations and graphics now and get Dino’s in the game we just play the same things over and over

[grizzled patio]

It is to harsh to travel to North West from South East swamps and back. Especially as a small teno. Teno is a swamp dino, right? So mb make some radish spawn closer to swamps? On center or smth.

[near pecan]

The hitbox for teno's kick and slam is absolutely idiotic. I can be standing inside a carno and not hitting, yet his charge hit me on the tail, stun me for eternity, and he gets 3-4 free bites on my neck.
Teno is 200kg from carno's weight. If, realistically, carno was even able to charge (with such a slender neck! And also being made for small bursts of speed to hunt small prey ...) he'd fall flat on his face or at least be stunned upon smacking into a creature almost his weight.

[vocal helm]

if you’re gonna make tail slam an utility, make it cost less stam and make the stun slightly longer

[winged canopy]

Give Deino a speed buff in the water so that it can keep up with animals on land, to make up for the fact that they're heavily restricted in where they can go, and often have to take the long way around

[astral sequoia]

Should nerf/rework the carno stamina. Played with a pack of 5 adult raptors and the carno out ran us for a solid 10-15mins (it’s growth was prob 65-70% so no it wasn’t a full adult) in the end it got away because our stam ran out before it’s did and it was faster… that doesn’t make any sense for the game to work like that. Sure I can see the carno having an initial burst of speed and being very quick up front but in the long term/drug out chase the raptor should have more stamina (speed should be pretty close if not faster than a carno if you take into account body weight)

[inner knoll]

Buff tenonto stam regen while it's standing, it exhausts way too fast

[broken matrix]

Me and 3 other Adult Utah pounced a 50% or around there that was a Stego about 12 times! and was fighting it for about 30 mins, it outlived us because 2 other stegos came and started guarding it. A nerf to stegos health would be nice in some way.

[delicate plank]

Add in some sort of debuff or deterrent for killing and eating juvies as a full grown predator around carno or deino size. A fresh juvie utah does NOTHING hunger wise for a full carno or deino and its frustrating being constantly murked for literal sport time after time after time by groups of 3+ carnos/deinos especially with plenty of edible bodies around.

maybe they are at risk of choking (oxygen loss?) and/or a vomiting debuff

I was killed as juvie utah by full carnos last night 9 separate times across the entire map over 3 NA servers in about 1.5 hours by spawncampers or on sight if the carno groups already were eating. and dying as a fresh ptera to a full deino is also frustrating in its own ways but i also know some deinos attack whats on the shore without seeing what it is first (guilty of that a couple times)

i can understand hunting fresh juvies for your own juvies, but ive had that happen only 2 times that i was aware of during the death screen, killing juvies for sake of killing and not actually needing to eat is only fun for one party

[gray bone]

4 ton stego.
6 ton deino.

That's all I have to say.

[tranquil cloak]

I know everyone says it, but something needs to be done about stego's tail. The damage, the swing speed, the range of the swing, something. I understand that as a very large, generally very slow herbivore they need something to be able to defend themselves from the predators that they attract by being a walking buffet, but their defense is so comprehensive that the only conceivable way to kill one is to have a large pack and/or be very lucky. You don't even feel safe attacking one from the front, because they can turn on a dime and stab you to death anyway. A 2x strength, faster adult deino bite with a 180 degree range and nothing in the way of windup or cooldown is flatly unfun to have to deal with.

[grizzled patio]

Make stego vs deino fight more balanced. Because now u can start attack stego only with 3 crocs. I mean deino is apex and it had more bite force than rex. I don't suggest to make it stronger then rex, but it should kill stego in 5 alt bites to head , 7 to body or like 9 to tail. So croc can 1v1 steg with 50/50 chance from sudden attack from water and easily wins 1v2. Also reduce tail attack dmg under water because... it s just a water, anything move slower in water.

[jaunty magnet]

Buff tenos bleed resistance

[next silo]

buff utah bite bleed, I swear you kill the damn thing with damage before you apply enough bleed. Look, I know pounce is cool and all but please stop making us rely on that buggy shit.

[thorny wedge]

As a person who never plays carno these observations may be skewed or incorrect. But my suggestion is to look at the data you are collecting and make proper judgements not simply based on everyone’s opinion. However, here is what i want you to investigate. I think carno should have increased hunger drain and be reverted to its old turn radius. It would seem that the group limits you developed are ment as a guideline to how many adult creatures can be in a group and should have decent survive rates. With carno that is 3. However, it would be expected larger groups should have more trouble. Since the update, ive noticed large groups of adult carnos and it would appear that they are not starving due to the amount of ai, the hunger decrease time, and the shear power they have in those numbers. Thus i suggest the increase in hunger drain rate. Second is the reduced turn radius. Every other creature in this game lacks the luxury carno has: speed. Carno runs into a large group of pachy, teno, utah? So long as it isnt blind it can just turn around and dip. Any other creature runs into a pack of carno now? Bam dead! Before the turn radius buff, if you were cleaver you could use forests and water to escape. But now that the carno seems to be able to turn on a dime, if you do not have the protection of a pack and run into a few carnos that are often in overgrouped packs you are gone. The turn radius has also decreased the appeal of utah. A few utah vs carnos was even. The carno lacked the ability to sharply turn so the utah could get pounces in. Between the bugged pounce and the fast turn it is much harder for utah. But again, check the numbers. Are there more people playing carno and surviving longer? Are there more adult carnos in the same area? These can answer the balance question.

[shy crane]

With the steady stream of Pteranodon nerfs I think it needs something new for compensation, Ptera Irl was a diver and quite a good one at that. So why not allow it to submerge into water, after landing softly into the waters surface it could dive somewhat like seabirds, this can give ptera players alternative activities, hunt elite fish, they could swim slower then deinosuchus, and they could perform a sort of "running takeoff" that could be quite costly in stamina

[weary glade]

I've mentioned turning rate of utahs that makes most players choose carnos and makes their natural role seem worthless. And what I'm posting here is a problem that me and my test subjects have inspected this problem. That's the jump speed of Utahs It's slow and predictable like easy and may be the source of bug ( pounche air ) It's easy to guess, just the victim walking in any direction can get out of the way. to make utahs in order to be able to make them popular I think the solution to this problem is as follows.

• increase speed while they jump on air while they pounche
• Increase the turn rate to be more agile than before
  and this " FIXED AIR POUNCHE " and adjust the nutrition of carnos
  It may sound stupid, but their problems will be gone and problems will be solved. and Mega pack carnos its will gone. and the merging of herbivore populations increases the chances of survival. thank you everyone for read this 🙂

[glass frost]

In my opinion there's something missing in the gameplay of Utah. While basically every other big dinosaur (Stego, Teno, Carno) prefers combat on plain and flat area, it would feel very special to be superior in the jungle when playing utah. As I experience the game right now, Utahs also prefer plain areas simply because the pounces are easier to hit and the target cannot wipe you off their backs with a tree or a rock.
This is just experimental thoughts but how about a mechanic that makes the utah the ultimate jungle hunter, actually luring for its prey.
My first idea was to have an aimhelper for pouncing, but the trees would still be very annoying to deal with, also because of the ability of your enemy to wipe you off on that.
But then I thought man it would be cool if the Utah had some sort of terrain adapting movement, for example climbing vertical surfaces for a short amount of time and pouncing on trees, pounce again off the tree to attack the prey from another angle.
Maybe anyone else has even better ideas for the Utah gameplay but that's it from my side :c

[toxic prairie]

Why did pachy get the ram turn nerf. It was unnecessary. Also, who thought Carno hood turn radius when walking was a good idea. I man come on I think the lesson would of been learned straight buffing something to the maximum doesn’t work

Once again I will give my opinion on this balancing…..

1): Revert pachy ram turn. That’s it. Also make fractures hit 100% unless on a poor diet. However overall damage should be decreased so you have plenty of time to run away without full on killing Carnos

2): Make Teno tail slam cost less stamina/make the kick extend out a bit to hit better

3): why was Pteranadon health snapped in half. That was unnecessary and it was fine as it was. Revert it

4): Why rely on a ram when I can run in, stop, bite 3 times with a god turn. Give Carno bad turning just not what it had before that was too much. Maybe a little more stamina than what we have now and it should be fine to be encouraged to use that ram to its advantage

5): diets need to be back to biome specific now one area of a map. Only change being we use the entire map. Otherwise the game gets super repetitive if I take the same path each time, or I could go any of the other paths to a specific biome and choose my own path while still playing the game and having fun

[stable elk]

Carno should lose more stam while swimming, while tenonto loses less

[dry mesa]

Nerf carnos bite force or weight and turning radius

[toxic prairie]

I think it would be a good idea if Deino had a fracture on the lunge, Not the normal bite. So if a stego is drinking or standing near water it can lunge, break its face, ribcage or legs and tell it to go away since it will be much harder to fight a deino on that state.

The point isn’t to make deino straight up kill stego, it’s to make fights more unique instead of stand there and bite giving Deino an opportunity to kill, but also giving stego a vulnerability

[broken matrix]

NERF STEGOS TAIL WHIP JESUS

[inner knoll]

Reduce how fast stamina drains while sprinting for Utah, just a smidge. It feels like it should be able to run for longer

[steep delta]

make stego's head more vulnerable and any carnivore should do more damage to a stego's head then the rest of its body. yes stego mains I hear you "WeLL tHat wOuLD mAkE sTgO bAD" if the stego dies because lets say a carno bit the stego's head 3 times and kills it well its the player's fault for not being careful enough when fighting a carnivore.

[tranquil kelp]

Ptera feedback after coming back from months ago :

Been a baby feels lot better with stamina consumption ( thank god )
Been able to attach on a tree is nice but why not giving stamina back ? it just miss the whole purpose of it !
Diet looked interesting, before trying to find frogs and chickens (never found any in the swamps or lake, just bunnies/boar/deer). Turtles are so far away from anything.
Diets buffs aren't worth the time spend at the moment.

Now for the main subject : "having fun being a psycho pecking machine"
Fun is gone.
Pecking slightly grown up juvies takes insane lot of efforts, adults are out of questions.
Fighting other ptera for sports is like fighting vanishing ghosts (rubberbanding), even juvies now have as much stamina you do.
Nothing to do but fighting AI for minutes or CRYING LOUD to annoy other dinos.
Forgot to add : getting one hit by raptor hit is unnecessary, they can already do it by jumping the ptera to the ground, it should be reverted, the damage was enough to keep a ptera away for a while if biten.

I was hoping for news features like grabbing juvies, ramming the lighter ones or even been able to steal carcasses... Adding some cooldown for the screams no ones like ?

[molten bay]

After playing around with teno for a while, I think it's better than before, it's more of a challenge to fight carnos now, but there are a few changes that could make teno vs carno more balanced:

1-Teno's tail slam, make it's stam cost about 6-7% instead of 10%.
2-Make claw attack do as much bleed as current kick and make kick do as much bleed as current claw attack, the claw doesn't do much damage so it should be the main bleed dealer while kick deals damage, also make kick a bit slower but not as slow as it used to be, it looks weightless and ridiculous rn.
3-increase standing/walking stam regen

Teno should use claw attack more in fights, but it's currently the least used attack after bite, here's how teno should fight, it should use it's claws to apply bleed, kick to deal damage, and tail slam to stun from a good safe distance and then use the attacks (kick/claw).

TL;DR: decrease tail slam stamina cost and swap kick and claw attack bleed values.

[rapid eagle]

Stego does need a nerf but the amount of stego mains that are in this server will make it impossible to happen, I say give stego the deino treatment, since deino has been nerfed to actually fit well into the current ecosystem, so should stego, right now there is nothing that can stand up to it, deino is the only carnivore that is equivalent to a stego's size, but why can it not even fight it? why can a stego kill a deino in only 4 hits? why should stegos camp our bodies that we worked hard to kill or find while we starve and cannot do anything about it?

[vocal helm]

perhaps when a deino is standing still on land and spacebar is pressed it could do a very sudden and short burst of speed, like real alligators and crocodilians do, with the intended use being to get to water quickly to escape danger
however this would cost around 15-20% stam and would have a cooldown

[calm creek]

it should have a turn radius nerf if anything

[toxic delta]

I play mostly deino, and think it would benefit from having more oxygen/make the air deplete slower.

[stoic cave]

Im not sure why nerfing stego is all the sudden controversial

Its an apex, it wasnt meant to be a playable for this current roster. It was suppose to be an AI. It should be nerfed at least the extent where deinosuchus can have a chance 1v1. Stegosaurus would still have an edge over deinosuchus though.

[delicate wren]

After playing pachy for a while, I have realized just how inconsistent the ram is half the time. You can sometime break a completely different bone, none at all, or just not register a hit correctly. Thus, I am wanting a few quality of life changes to make pachy's ram more consistent.

1: Guarantee a break on hit. At the moment, if a carno has perfect diet, then it can sometimes tank a pachy hit without breaking a bone. This is a death sentence to the pachy since it can not hit the carno again because of the stun immunity and it is now even lower on stamina. This generally ends with the pachy just being chased down and killed. So make it a guaranteed break unless the pachy has no nutrients.

2: Fix the lag ram. Especially around raptors and laggy areas, sometimes you will ram and it will drain you stamina, but the dino you rammed will act as if nothing happened. Rarely they will use the knockdown animation, but slide away and get up as if nothing happened. This is a major issue since it drains your stamina and leaves you vulnerable to attacks.

3: Make the carno charge and pachy ram interaction more consistent. The current interaction is basically rng affected by lag. When you ram the carno, both of you break a bone. It can be any bone on the carno or the pachy's legs or ribs. A leg break can be a death sentence to either party. The interaction should never break the legs of either of them, it just makes no sense why a head-on collision breaks legs. Make it a guaranteed rib break on pachy and a head or rib fracture on the carno, but do not make it EITHER a head or rib break, make it only one of them.

4: Fix the hitbox of the ram. Below I have some poorly illustrated diagrams of what I presume the hitbox is (top image) and what I propose the hitbox should be (bottom image). The main change is that it prioritized hitting what is right in front of the pachy and it reaches further behind the head to stop phasing through people with a ram.

[next silo]

nerf carno turning. how did you guys mess up the ONLY weakness the thing has lmao

[hot nebula]

Honestly i think carno turning is fine. When i fight a carno, i only really notice that buff when they are going slow, when they are running/ chasing me they still turn like a bus( pretty easy to break ankles here) i think the main issue is how fast they actually accelerate now. I like that they buffed acceleration, they just buffed it too much. I think that it should be toned down a bit so its a bit harder to use the charge/ram. Dont put it back to pre update, but reduce it to a happy medium. Also i think stego is fun to fight as is, i dont think it deserves a nerf because the main issue is mega packs that make certain dinos seem way more OP than they actually are. Mega packs will always be an issue unless something is done to penalize those giant mega pack. Im talking about mega packs of a single species, not giant packs of different dinos traveling together

[topaz kelp]

The hunger decreases a bit to fast. For a new player that dosent have a lot of knowledge on the game might die of starvation very quickly.

[desert coral]

For Deinos
1: please make it so other dinos can't see you underwater when you move ( there can see you from realy far and run)
2: please remove the spots where dinosaurs can drink safely (like in swamp in the wall or some other place i would show you if you ask)
its so unfair for Deinos because the spots are on land where is no water

[still girder]

Buff dryo! we need the old dryo speed

[spice lantern]

I agree with the water part, the water glitch just makes it so that no dino needs to worry about deinos, and honestly it kind of ruins ambushes. and the point of playing as a deino respectively

[lavish tundra]

Juvi carnos shouldn't be able to ram down a full grown ptera and knock it over I dont know why they are even able to do that as a juvi, also nerf carno's turn again it was the only weakness it had. Why buff it if its already the fastest dino in the game

[next silo]

make deinos oxygen better, this can make you stay underwater rather than just go underwater and wait a limited time of like 4-5 min, because you have like a fuckin 10 second ripple effect making it SO easy to see you, real life crocodiles can probs hold their breath for like 8+ minutes, deinos, have MUCH larger lungs I assume lol. so please buff oxygen tank. also remove all this broken water pockets

[smoky lichen]

carno is wayyyy too op rn you should nerf it, bring it back to what it was pre up 4.5

[broken matrix]

Nerf stegos health, way too much

[grim gorge]

For now at least stego should be 4 tons and deino 6. This makes the current roster able to kill them and makes the game a little more balanced. Later when bigger dinos are in that pose a threat to them you can buff their weight and stats back to what they are currently.

[last grove]

Please make it that another utah can escape another utah's pounce! as it is right now if you get pounced and that other person has full stamina your dead, there is no counter play to it.

[worn rivet]

Seriously fighting as a Carno is just spam clicking your bite button. Do that and you’ll kill everything that isn’t a stego or a full grown croc

[icy hemlock]

Just solo'd 3 Pachys as a 75% carno so yeah it probably needs some nerfs

[slender zealot]

Make utahs get up from resting faster, utahs normal get up (H key) is slower than carnos normal get up from resting. It makes no sense.

[onyx granite]

revert pachy turning, lower stun immunity window to 5 seconds, make fractures get worse the more you move around

[icy hemlock]

Utahs shouldn't be able to pounce head-on into another dinosaur they should get slammed to the ground or something

[harsh cave]

fix pachy bonk registers

[toxic prairie]

Stego was a mistake ever since you put it in for the current roster. Don’t say just walk away from it cause that’s not the issue. It’s when hords of stego’s camp hard earned body’s and leave you starving and unable to play the game cause they said so.

Also herbivore diets need to be reverted to biome specific. The issue was things only being in center and the entire map wasn’t being used. Just spread food through the entire map and as we get more biomes it can be changed up with diets and such

[worthy edge]

Buff Utahs Stamina or Nerf Carnos
it Cant be that a Carno can out Stam Utahs
Utah is a Endurance Hunter who is meant to Follow his Pray for a long time and Poke some Bleed or Bites when there is a Openning or Simply follows and Pressures a Dino until is Bleeds out
while Carno is for Ambushes sort Fight with Much impacts but fucked when it doesnt Manages his stam right but currently i looks again like Carno is just coming to a Spot and Fights or just stand infront of many Utahs leets say 2-3 Adult Carnos vs 8 Utahs
and they just know they will win the endurance fight

idk how to Fix this (issue in my eyes) maybe Simply just Buff Utahs Stam and nerf Carnos Stam + Regen

or Add the Ability to Utahs that if they Currently Follow Foot Print they marked and keep Following them they get a Huge Reduced Stam use while Running or a Much Higher Stam Regen !!this is Btw just an Idea i got while Edit this when you think about it it could get Abused but still would be very cool!!

[valid horizon]

Even in this current balance patch, I still rather get my protein from Carnos rather then Stegos, and that itself is saying alot. Lipids are just very hard to get, and when you get them, you only get like a little bit. My suggestion would be to change stegos from protein to lipids. So Utahs would be more encourage to hunt them.

[gloomy carbon]

Well, I´ve been playing almost as teno and yesterday I decided to try Carno with some friends. I was astonishing how powerful it is comparing with teno for example.
It has stamina, bite force and speed all in one. I know he is the apex carni at moment but I think the difference between teno and carno is to big.
Teno is suppose to travel across the full map to get the nutrients so their stamina should be higher than carno. In other hand carno should be a sprinter and not a
marathon athlete. Limit pack was suppose to help in that matter but is a joke, once you can over pack, and is easier to find carnos to pack than tenos.
Other aspect I found unbalance it was the fact teno get thirst faster than carno, but I didn't confirm it.
I'm not saying carno should be nerfed but probably teno should be buffed a lit more, in stamina and the tail attack seems to be the main issues to get some more
balance battles between different species.

[crisp pasture]

Decrease pachy headbutt stamina usage. Pachy has to run more often (slowest walking theropod), uses stamina for food and uses a lot of stamina on its attacks.

Pachy is more reliant on stamina then any other dino so instead of doing a straight overall stamina buff, just decrease the stamina amount for a headbutt.

[void mantle]

Please limit stego's growth to 75% or less until it has feasible methods of being killed in EVRIMA. Either make it not grow past that point until it has predation or scale down the adult model's size and stats to be equivalent to about 75% of what the adult is now. Even 50% growth works because at that point, it can still play the role of "tank" when facing dinosaurs like carnotaurus. I mainly say this, though, because around that point in stego growth (both 50% and 75%), it is already very powerful - but not invincible against the current roster. Its weakness at this point is bleed and if this change is implemented, it should be intentionally designed to be vulnerable to bleed damage, leading to attrition fights vs stego such as that seen previously. Whenever stego has predation, these changes can be reverted to better help it survive. It would be a temporary fix to the imbalance that would hopefully be easily implemented into EVRIMA.

In my eyes, this solution makes it both more fun for stego players (at least those that want a challenge), and also allows them to participate in fighting against the rest of the island - which in turn makes the game more fun and interactive for the playerbase as a whole.

[thorny wedge]

I think that in order to make it equal between herbivores and carnivores for growing. Herbivores should have the 3 nutrition buffed grow time till 25% for only having 2 nutrition. Then after that you need all 3 for that buff. That gives herbivores enough time to run to the moon and back for nutrition and still have the same growth rates as a carnivore. Who can have that buff to 50% for eating anything.

[livid igloo]

After playing dozens of hours on this new version here's some update observations.

Map and spawns
The new map is much better however there's still too much over packing north west for my liking. You do bump into players everywhere much more often. Kuddos on that, I look forward to see the next version. Please fix occurences where you can drink through the terrain.

Desyncs / lag compensation
Huge problem especially for special abilities like pounce, slams, headbutts etc... which bug out or don't register at all. It was much more responsive in 4.0 than in 4.5.

Ragdolls performance
Once again when corpses start dropping on the ground so does everyone's around performance. This problem has plagued the game since patch 3.5 and it seemed slightly better in 4.0 but now it's back in full swing.

Carnos
The carno is way too easy to both prog and gameplay wise. It turns way too easily, you can now easily support a large pack of carnos without worrying too much about cannibalism and hunger. I think combat balance wise carno was in its best spot during 4.0. It suffered from having all herbivores players forming large groups in one spot. This has been mostly addressed with the new map layout.

Tenos
I hate the new changes. The tail slam was a very iconic ability and currently costs way too much stam for its damage output. It was also a skillful shot to use properly and felt much more satisfying when used well than back kicks. On top of it relying on the back kicks to apply damage is not too great when the hitbox of this ability feels gimmickey at best. I'm glad you got rid of the weird new tail slam partial animation when moving, it was terrible. At the moment tenos require to go noth west and cross the entire map in diagonal to south east (which is a great idea!). However the amount of risks involved on a map that is mainly littered with carno packs can be outputting sometimes. Raddish roots are in the fields in the most populated area where many carnivors "hangout". I progged quite a few carnos and tenos so far and getting a teno to 100% involves a lot of running and avoiding enemies while progging a carno is a complete AFK joke.

Stegos
Reduce their blood pool and their damage (no more 1 shots on carnos). Carnos and utahs will most likely risk it more, it will be more fun for everyone.

Pachies
I haven't played a whole lot of it but I played against it. The combination of nerfs to pachies + huge carno buffs and carnos overpopulation thanks to the hunger changes makes pachies a huge underdog at the moment (teno aswell but not as bad). As a carno once you're behind a pachy it's over you turn as much as him if not more.

Deinos
The new river and stuff makes deinos so much more interesting now, there's a bug if you grab someone he is most likely to shoot up in the air which I assume is due to desync issues. Also there are many places where it is possible to drink through the ground which most people now abuse so it is greatly diminishing the chances of catching something in some areas of the map.

Utahs
They would be in a much better place if 1/4 of your pounces didn't fail and turned into a death sentence.... though to tell how it feels balance wise but the carno changes have a huge impact on utahs which relied on sharp turns to avoid them.

Overall
I strongly feel like combat wise except for the overtuned pachies 4.0 had the best combat balance overall. A lot of these buffs and nerfs here seem to attempt to address problems that were level design related and not gameplay related. Players were all stacked up at oasis which ended up creating large static herbivore packs in one spot which made life difficult for carnivores. This new map and new plants spawns addresses most of that on its own. Now carnos are really the "easy mode" and over represented and pretty much stomping everything in large groups since they don't care much about food intake anymore.

[mighty ermine]

We are in serious need of balance changes and fast. The game is, again, in an extremely poorly balanced state and has been for months. Would be a good time to have another patch to make some adjustments

[tidal terrace]

Diets
Its way too many crocs, carnos, utahs and stegos, but too few pachys and tenos. I like the new diet spawns, but I think you should give tenos and pachys that go for all three nutrients a bigger reward so the ecosystem will be balanced. How about setting the growth boost from 2 nutrients up a little from 50% and then really reward them from going for three nutrients by increasing it from 120% to 140% or even 150%? Its not that hard for a pachy to get all three, you dont have to run that far, but for teno its a pretty long run and if you take the most effective route you still end up at about the same growth time as carno has, not including how much longer it will take if you actually run into predators on the way and have to hide or take a detour.

[little sinew]

With the introduction of mechanics and niches in this version of the game many animals are very depending on proper level design to have good performance when it comes to survivability.

Swamp is very poorly designed right now, the only proper thing that it has it's the good amount of vegetation and water depth in the middle which is apropriate to give fish room to move vertically for more engaging pursuits in the future, hide adult deinos, and have future additions to dive deep under. There are too many shallow spots near the edges of it, naturally land playables will gravitate towards those areas for drinks automatically denying all the deino treat in the area. Access to the wall should be more restricted, specially by big amounts of deep water around it, it's too much of a safespot for playables that can jump.

Rivers should be deeper and at least twice more wide so it actually makes a difference if your dino is a good swimmer or not, and have specific less wide areas meant for crossing. This would make avoid other deinos easier as deino, it would make cross to avoid predators more efficient if you are a better swimmer than your chaser, and would give more opportunities for deino at hotspot areas. Tenos would highly benefit from this aswell since they are meant to be near water biomes, they are very good swimmers and thats another reliable way to escape carnos.

Honestly most of the balancing issues right now come from bugs and level design, however, some i'm not saying some stats couldn't be tweaked. To name a few that i think would benefit the overall balance between species:

• Decrease carno acceleration.
• Remove the asma from the teno. Seriously the amount of stamina that it loses specially from kicking is atrocious, and the hability is not even that good.
• Lower the stego's weight between half a ton to 1 ton (at least for the time being until bigger playables are added).
• Speed up the pachy recover after using the coconut cracker skill vs another player

[spice lantern]

I understand about the turn radius of a carno, however I do not believe that the carno is an easy grow due to the fact that baby carnos do get chased a lot by Utah, and it does take longer to grow a carno. Plus I believe that a few adult utahs are able to kill a carno providing that they work together and are coordinated. despite this I still believe that the carno does need a little nerf to its turn radius.

-Another thing I would like to mention is that carnos vs utahs is not meant to be an even match up, and that the carno is meant to be stronger due to the fact that it can be more a liability to grow and the fact that it weighs more.
the even fight for utah is meant to be teno

[stone remnant]

Pachy Quality of Life Changes
• More coconuts spawn in-land by coasts so players do not need to travel down cliffs and get stuck on beaches.

• Pachy’s sprint stamina drain reduced, allowing adult pachy to run further. This will make it more reliable for travelling.

Migrating makes it vulnerable as an animal needing a lot of stamina for attacking.

Pachy needs to travel far for its diet and will not have to rest as often when doing so.

• Allow ai compy to blast off into the distance when struck, similar to team rocket. Currently it flings across the ground and occasionally turns spaghetti. Realism isn’t necessary in this case. Please.

[vale seal]

Firstly... nerf Stegos. Nothing but griefing & taking up a valuable server slot

Secondly, fix Deinos moving around so much when trying to free float in water. Really annoying when you're trying to eat something floating in the water & you keep floating outside of "eat" range.

I had to have 3 attempts to eat a chunk of elite fish earlier because I kept floating out of range. IF anyone says just pick a chunk up to eat it to solve this problem, I don't wanna be constantly relogging as unable to eat bug mostly seems to happen when I try picking up chunks.

[gray bone]

If you devs decide to nerf stego, handle it carefully. Stego is the sole reason deino doesn't stroll on land eating any corpse and acting like a slow rex.
Stego does need some tweaks, I believe in this, but it absolutely has to be handled carefully.
If deino wins 1v1 on a shoreline, what's the difference in a field? They are both land logged, they both have crap maneuverability.
Stego vs deino is literally just a stat battle, neither party can move to dodge or reposition. If you want deino to kill steg, it will always win. Stego wins because of its dps, if deino had the stats to kill stego in a face tank there would just be an inverse problem, stego would be getting dunked on by deino, with deino invading stego's (and every other land playable's) element, resulting in even more of a problem because deino is easier to grow and is a carnivore.
It would be like 8 ton locusts. Eating everything in their path, effectively killing the carnivore population, and if diet plants worked they way they are intended, may even kill the herbivore populations as they eat all the food with nothing to keep them in check.

When handling an apex carnivore and a dominant herbivore in an ecosystem full of smalls a psuedo mids, you have to take more into account than just "my main doesn't win."
The way these 2 are balanced literally decides the way the entire ecosystem works

[grim gorge]

I am once again suggesting for stegos weight to be reduced to 4 tons and deinos 6 tons. While I despise carno being the king its the only thing other than stego that could help keeping deinos in the water and utah with how broken pounce is every update unless its fixed cant fight stegos well at all even in massive packs. Keep in mind this change wouldn't be permanent but until bigger dinos are in to keep both of the apexes in check. We need their health reduced so they are killable.

[livid igloo]

I want to develop a bit more on the Teno's tail slam vs back kick ability in its current state but also in regard to what situations you will most likely face while playing as a teno.

In 4.5 the damage output was completely shifted toward back kicks instead of tail slam. I believe this is a mistake. The tail slam was THE RECOGNIZABLE ABILITY that other dinosaurs knew not to mess with when they say a teno. It was also a skillful shot ability. You could spot a mediocre tenon from a mile a way solely based on how he would hold back his tail slams and spend his stamina at the right time or not. It made the gameplay of tenon FUN. The new back kick is way too fast, it looks clumsy. Also its hitbox is a MESS. Way too often you are visibly within your target and you end up wasting precious time and stamina on a back kick that doesn't register even though it is clearly directly on the target just to switch to a tail slam that if it has time to land despite the wasted time would cause terrible damage pour the amount of stam exhausted.

One big other factor with the tail slam was its ability to keep in respect multiple opponents attacking from the back. Which is a more realistic situation that the average teno will face during a playthrough than the occasional Carno 1v1 for example. Unlike carnos which can disengage a fight and disappear at will, tenos can't. Once they have been spotted by a carno it's ON. What most likely will happen if you get stalked by a carno is he will start screaming non stop until all the other ones around show up, which in the current state of the poor balance only takes a few mins at max since carnos are in clear over population. Tail slam gave the ability to good tenos to keep multiple attacking carnos at bay (NOT KILL THEM! Only greedy morons come back for more after 1-2 failed passes at a teno). Currently with the low damage output of tail slam and its high stamina cost, a few carnos will quickly exhaust you even if they only come to spam bite. Previously greedy carnos who would play like morons could be punished. Now not so much anymore and the hitbox for back kicks REALLY NEED some attention if you're gonna keep teno centered around the kick as the primary damage source.

Bad / mediocre tenos usually end up in large groups, any carno / utah can easily avoid these groups and not bother fighting them. But even so! I play also tons of carno as a duo most of the time and we have no trouble at the moment wiping out groups of 4-5 aggro mediocre tenos. It's a complete joke at the moment. Also don't forget that the tail slam as a similar effect as the stego tail swipe which is that they can't stackup too much as they are as dangerous for the foes as for their friends when not handled properly (and ohhhh boy does that happen a lot).

Second pass of the carno clearly doesn't connect while he's on the ground directly in his head (should have given up on his first failed pass, he deserved to die). This type of hits happen in almost every fight! You're wasting precious fractions of a second and stamina to attempt punish someone's mistake.
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1447851486

[safe torrent]

Stego needs to be nerfed somehow. It's a waste of a player slot and has no kind of competition in it's own habitat. However if stego's health or damage gets directly nerfed in any way the deinos will likely be able to face tank and win which would result in them basically replacing the stegos. (albeit with less speed, bleed, range, mobility, and overall power)

This is why we need to nerf the blood pool of stego. It has no bearing on stego VS deino, but would make stego mortal again against enemies like utahs. It shouldn't take multiple utahs 15 minutes and no mistakes to kill a stego. Especially with no land predator in stego's weight class. It should absolutely be possible to kill with around 3-4 utahs in less than 10 minutes. Give stego something to be afraid of.

[desert coral]

Thats a big problem pls remove somethink like that. This safe drink spots are realy annoying. All time i see this i think why i play Deino...

[lavish tundra]

Indeed, Utah (full grown) are oneshot killed by Carno, Stego, deino (on land and from water), and also by pachy if I am correct. On the other side, the pounce doesn't seem to bother neither stego or deino, even from a full grown Utah... Maybe 10 pounce are needed to be succeeded to kill the Stego / deino... But one bite, and dead. And their angular move is almost 180°

[vale seal]

It seems the only enjoyment most Stegos find is by taking away from other players enjoyment. Griefing Deinios & body camping. Why is this problem not being addressed already?

It's toxic af.

[vocal helm]

revert carno and utah back to how they were in UP4

[steep delta]

Tail slam damage buff for teno it just makes more sense for teno too do more damage with a tail slam and it looks like it could do a ton of damage certainly more then a kick. Also nerf the kick damage to complay with the tail damage buff

[merry hare]

deino and stego are invincible to everything besides each other so they won't be in this list.

here's how carno ranks on the stats spectrum.

Number:
1 in speed
1 in HP
1 in weight
1 in bite speed
2 in bite strength
2 in bleed
1 in stun duration against other players, since it pins every other mid tier.

all with the same run stam as a teno.

so basically the only down side is what? its turning is like 50% worse than a utah? and to many people that puts carno in "a good place right now"

everyone else has ass stam so carno isn't being mistreated.

it's basically a dino, thats only down side is that its run turn is slightly worse then a utah.

not calling for nerfs... just wanna know how anyone can say "carno's in a good place right now"

[shy crane]

Seagulls can swallow rabbits whole yet a human sized flying reptile can't scarf down even a frog

[tranquil kelp]

Reduce the Hitbox from ptera wings currently, or is it the stego tail the main problem perhaps.
When you're trying to take off while a carno is charging, you succeded to take off but get teleported into his mouth, this s*cks but is more of a server lag problem or it is only lags ?
Flying not directly toward a stego and getting hit from awkward range, visualy far from reach is different from lag alone.
Seems like ptera hitbox while flying is quite too large, instead of reducing it, maybe add some "break bone" effect (which could affect his stamina consumption) instead of insta killing you. And the fun with it.

[sudden drum]

I mean the Game is awesome but its weird to balance all the Dinos when there are only 9 of them and i mean Herbivores are meant to be in groups and only then they are strong not when they are alone and at the current state i dont even wanna know how many Gigas or whatever you would need to take down a group of stegos. They rly need a nerf. Ppl gotta stop that they think that it should be 100% safe to face 2 or 3 Carnos or a big group of Utahs or whatever when they are alone.

[next silo]

can we please stop relying on utah pounce as much? its boring just to hold right click. biting is way more fun combat wise but its so useless. please make bite more useful.

[rain vault]

It would be so much better if the pteras' latching ability could regenerate their stamina, why isn't it a thing yet? I mean, I'd love to see mountains full of hanging pteras, but right now, that ability isn't very useful...

[white tulip]

revert pachy nerf please

its too easy to kill them now

[ancient ivy]

Just a thought, if and when game will have another strong mid tier dino, for example cera. carnos wont dominate the game so much, so now if you run into 4-5 carnos then after cera is introduced it might be a healthier balance, of like 1-2 ceras and 1-2 carnos, and in that case, maybe pack hunters and herbi herds will have easier time defending themselves. so a carno that right now seems very strong wont be anymore, mainly cause they wont be the only choice. hopefully balance will fix itself with diversity.

[zealous mist]

I mainly play deino, with around 200 hours on deino. There is a real problem with the place of deino in the meta. Here are the important points that prevent the deino from finding a stable place in the meta:
1: Glitches that allow players to drink in the grass or on the ground. This is the most important point that must be corrected as soon as possible.
2. The deino diet containing ptera and pachy is unbalanced compared to other diets. Maybe we should add a dino to this diet.
3. The deino against the Stego. I don't think the stego is too strong in the meta, a good group of uta and even carno can easily kill a stego, but I think the deino needs a fix to balance the fight vs stego . Here's what I thought: Either an increase in damage (the worst solution in my opinion), or a better stun on the secondary attack made with the stego (already a better option), or and I think it would be really interesting, a new feature: it's that any dino, regardless of its weight, which crosses the water while swimming could now be caught by the deino. Of course the deino still couldn't catch a stego that wasn't swimming.

[dense matrix]

Carno is a more competent defender than teno, it's a more competent "brawler" than teno, this is massively in part to it's turn rate buffs, these shouldn't exist, carno is very very powerful without them but with them they're rendered far more generally competent than their purpose implies or demands they be.
You can literally turn towards a teno angling their tail towards you, bite the end of their tail, and turn out before the tail slam animation can finish let alone be used as a response.
You can quite literally chip away at a tenos HP and there's really nothing they can do about it aside from attempt to chase you down, which only really wastes their stam in an attempt to "scare" you off, ultimately this strategy also plays to your favor.
I kinda wish when carno required brainpower to play as, it was a really entertaining animal to play as last patch by comparison, now it's outclassed itself and the rest of the ecosystem so far to the point of becoming boring.

[hot stream]

remove carno from carno diet, its a carebear mechanic that allows for easy growth and easily nutrients for carnos.

[hazy zinc]

On the contrary, keep carno in carno’s diet. Real life relatives of Carnotaurus are known to be cannibals. Plus, being the fastest thing in the game means that you need an opponent that can match your own speed. Once there are less carnos when we get a new carnivore or two, carnos surviving off of eating only themselves won’t be a problem.

[delicate wren]

Pachy needs some buffs, especially with the carno matchup, and I thought of a way to do it that isnt just stat boosts. Allow pachies to combo again. I dont mean get 5 pachies to stun lock a carno, I mean allow a pachy to combo its hits together. With the current stun immunity system, carnos are essentially immune to pachy rams for 10 seconds, it doesnt stop the raw damage from bashes, but it stops the bone break damage. This allows the carno to have 10 seconds to run down any pachy that just hit them without consequence, and they will catch up with their superior speed and nearly equal agility. This also stops a combo I used to do as a pachy: dodge a ram, bash the carno's side, then break the skull while its still stunned. This is hard to do combo with high risk, since it puts you right in the carno's face as its stun ends, but it allows you to get 2 breaks and end the fight right then if you do it correctly.

So, I reccomend 2 main changes:
1 a ramp-up stun immunity. By this i mean make the immunity start as a small time, but increase as more bashes happen. Such as: 3 seconds of immunity for the first bash, second bash gives 5 seconds immunity, and the third gives 10 seconds and it caps there. However, if a different pachy bashes, it automatically goes up to the 10 seconds. The immunity will reset after combat ends for a certain amount of time. This will allow solo pachies to fight carnos if they are goood, but stop the swarm and stun lock tactic.

2 stun immunity does not mean damage immunity. The current stun immunity negates bone break damage for 10 seconds. If you make the immunity timer not negate bone break damage, it will allow solo pachies to break multiple bones and run. One bone break is not nearly enough to escape, unless RNGesus smiles upon you and allows a leg break.

These suggestions can be brought together or only one can be brought, but allow pachies a chance to escape something bigger, stronger, faster, and equally manuverable as them.

[surreal mason]

For Utah diet the first 2 ("S" and "three dots") are easiest to obtain through hunting AI or other dino players because they are more common to find across the hotspots of the map. The 3rd diet ("double lines") is the hardest to acquire because most players don't play hypsis and dryos on the server and you're lucky to catch a Ptera by either catching it off guard on the ground or knocking out of the sky when it's flying low. That being said either
A) Bring back dryo AI
B) Return deino to "double lines" diet
C) Swap Ptera to "S" diet and either stego or carno for the "double lines" diet

[dawn geyser]

Nerf Carno and stego (I don’t hVe much else to add but look at everyone else amazing ideas for it, it will gravely help this game. Deino is fine for me. Pachy is just broken and utahs pounce is also broken)

[steep delta]

Give dryo a buff and fix the bugs it has like a small hit box and the dodge move

[red oasis]

Herbivores are at an extreme disadvantage in the current game. Juvenile herbivores are a lot slower and weaker compared to their predators, making counterplay extremely difficult. Matchups are made worse with the carbon-copied theHunter tracking system (designed for a PvE game), which immediately makes losing pursuers nearly impossible if you cannot crouch. Coupling with the fact that the diet food distribution is scattered throughout the entire map makes growing and maintaining these animals a tedious chore. Hypsi and dryo populations are very thin due to their lack of engaging gameplay for most players, despite these being prey animals which should be the backbone of the ecosystem. Combat seems to be the main staple of what keeps this game entertaining, and with the games current build it is clear that it favors carnivore players. I'm assuming nesting will give some life to herbivores, but that won't fix the lacking content that these playables need to be enjoyable. These issues are important and shouldn't be relegated to the QoL update.

[harsh cave]

remove leg fract chance from pachy contesting a carno charge makes zero sense why its a thing tbf

[tender raven]

Tracking system is way too op for carnis. Was tracked down so far while i wasnt even bleeding. I think footprints need to be way more spread out if one isnt bleeding.

[worn rivet]

I don’t really see the point of playing Utah. With another 30-60 minutes of grow time you can be this absolute unit of a freight train. Who brings death upon almost everything you see. Carno’s are bigger,faster, and stronger. There’s almost no benefit to playing Utah anymore.

[desert coral]

As a suggestion deino vs stego
The grab attack of the Deinons stun the Stego longer (like now its 1 sec or so) bether for 3 or max. 5 sec. So you can do more damage or you can return into the water and plan the next attack. Now its like impossible to kill a stego as deino.

[thick inlet]

Nerf carno. I killed a baby/juvie carno, with my 85% of growth utah and then came others carnos. So I hide. Then, after they got away from the carcass, I went to eat and a not fully grown carno came again and so I ran away, hide and then tried to fight him because I wanted to eat. I dodge every single bite from him, but unfortunately I failed one of my pounces. With that he had the advantage to bite me easily and so he did. He literally only bited me 1 time and I died. I got a little bit confused with no reaction after I died and just said: "wow", because let us say that is a lot of damage and I just started laughing, because better laugh than cry. No sense that damage. Nothing else to say 👍

[dense matrix]

Carno’s bite hitbox is so large that at a standstill, you can hit an adjacent hitbox from 2-2.5ish meters away from your model….
This is a massive issue, it renders most Carno rebalances redundant because we’ve been subconsciously taking into account Carno’s immense hitrange without knowing whether it was lag or your own hitboxes fucking up.
But lately I’ve been able to get a bit better perspective on just how absurd this problem is and I can say for certain that this is Carno’s biggest issue, it affords the prey item it’s chasing zero agency in dodging or juking as even if you drastically miss you’ll still likely hit the target if you looked in their vague direction.

The only reason this isn’t a bug report is because I genuinely don’t think it’s worth one, this seems very intentional, although why? I have no idea. Carno of all animals doesn’t need to be shadow biting from 7 ft away.

Fixing this issue will go a very long way in improving the accuracy of the communities ability to perceive Carno’s balance, current or otherwise.
As the largest terrestrial carnivore in Evrima I’d recommend this be at very heigh priority…

[eager depot]

Carnos balance is the embodiment of a clown's fiesta

Nerf the thing, it didn't need any of its buffs especially considering its counterparts got nerfed to oblivion.

[ancient ivy]

idk, 3 utahs vs 1 carno easy game, and thats how its supposed to be you shouldnt be killing carno as utah 1v1, we simply quickly need another land carnivore, same for teno, 1v1 against carno, easy game, its just overpacking thats the problem

[open plank]

For the next patch I suggest all of the following changes:
1)Carno
-Nerf carno’s agility and speed acceleration, the only thing that he needed in update 4.0 was like 5-10% less stamina consumption while charging (Right now carno feels more like a very fast brawler, that niche should belong to cerato with the huge difference that cerato it’s slower in speed and has less health)

2)Teno
-Make tailslam his main dmg source again and make kick a move mainly used to apply bleed with less dmg than tailslam.
(It feel more natural for tenonto to use their massive and powerful tail as the main weapon of defence)

3)Pachy
-Revert the turn radius nerf
-Reduce stun immunity to 5sec from 10sec ( who even thought that it was a good idea to give such a long immunity time)

4)Ptera
-Revert all ptera nerfs from the recent patch and increase the nutrients that they give.
-Allow it to pick the carcasses of bunnies, frogs and chickens( they can literally carry a fish that it’s twice their size)

5)Dryo
-Buff his biteforce from 10N to 15N
-Reduce dodge stamina consumption by 50%
-Slight buff his speed while they are juvies( I don’t know if it’s true but apparently when it’s a juvie he is a lot slower than juvie utah)
-Maybe introduce another mechanic to make them more interesting before burrowing it’s introduced

6)Stego
-Slightly increase the dmg that he takes on the head
-Reduce the tail swipe dmg by 20% if the enemy is fully underwater

7)Deino.
-Remove diets from him
-Increase his o2 capacity by 2 minutes

8)Hypsie.
-Give him another type of spit with less range but able to spread in a cone shape way

9)Utah
-Fix pounce
-Increase bite force from 55N to 65N
(so that bite can be a more versatile move)

[livid igloo]

A take on making Stegos more interesting for everyone and for stegos themselves
Currently stegos are doing nothing more than grieffing once adult and jumping off cliffs out of boredom. The main reason for that is that land predators in the game at the moment are busted against them. Utah pounce was never effective against them as you fall most of the time in their dead zone and currently the lag compensation / desync is screwing up utahs big time. They can currently one shot carnos to the head which a very common hit since carnos bite with their head, carnos just completely ignore them most of the time and stego resolve to chasing them and body camping to "get some action".

Here are some possible small changes that could make it more interesting for everyone around these suggestions are for final stego stats as an adult, not intended to really affect young stegos:

Increase stamina cost of sprinting, they are massive and heavy, they should not be able to just sprint like a complete maniac for a kilometer.

Reduce the blood pool by something like 15-20% or so. The amount of bleeding they can take at the moment is ridiculous. Even if they don't stand still. This would also encourage utahs and carnos to try their luck at bleeding them dry more often

Reduce damage output so that carnos can no longer be one shotted to the head but left completely broken with close to 1hp so that carnos know they can at least do one mistake and get away with it. This is the reason carnos do play against younger stegos but not the big ones. It would also be more similar to teno / carno fights where only the greedy carnos usually die and the smarter ones get away to fight another day.

Pair the point above with nerfing Carno turn radius to what it was previously which would make them more predictable in their movement and not just a bigger drifting utah. Would also hugely benefit pachies which are in a weak spot at the moment

Consider adding some water hit detection to the end of their tail to reduce their damage when swinging at deinos in water.

[vocal helm]

a lot of people say that deino's diets should be removed, and i agree to an extent
however, i think it would work better like this:
the deino keeps the preferences and can eat anything and it will give a slight amount of nutrients, however, when eating something in the preferred foods list it will give nutrients about twice as fast, and the buffs they would give would be more noticeable

[next silo]

can tail shots please not kill dinos? why would they? no organs, just flesh and bones. im not saying it should do no damage im saying it shouldnt kill, it should to bleed and damage yeah but not kill, its stupid seeing it kill

[ionic mountain]

My experience in the current version of the game.

Pachy needs a buff because it's not capable to defend themselves. Before the nerf came in pachy was not op tho.
Teno is patheticly weak like it was in update 3.75. Needs a buff as well.
Carno is op again. Needs the up 4.0 stats back, or atleast buff it's biteforce a little with the reverted turn.
Utah is fine, just the pounce is weird sometimes.
Stego is still op, You guys need to nerf it

The game was balanced, carno was the exception. AND stego

[next silo]

honestly, utah should have more stamina, it doesnt even have double of carno, which is stupid. carno is almost 4x the weight, is not a runner, its an ambush predator, and utah, which is lighter, and IS a runner has what? like 40 seconds above carno? I think thats stupid. my friend was chasing me on my server and when he was depleted I was nearly fully out too, yeah sure we can hide in bushes but, why? a utah should be able to out stam a carno almost anytime, weather it lost 25% of its stamina or if its full.

[vocal helm]

revert carno turn radius and acceleration

[worn rivet]

Increase the amount of stamina it cost to buck a Utah. Make it relative to your size. The stego animation throws itself on its back legs and the stamina drain needs to reflect that. On the other side Pachy being a lighter Dino would use less stamina to buck.

[rancid spoke]

After a lot of hour playing as Utah, I feel the Utah gets easily killed by Tenonto and Carno (even when ambushing and attacking first). An health increase would be a good way to buff the utah. If that's not an option for the dev, maybe considering an increase in health regen and bleed resistance or bleed damage. Why? Because the utah is not a fast killer. The utah need to be able to stand during long duration fight and try to bleed out his opponent.

[leaden yarrow]

How about making dryo the same speed as Utah but give it more stam ? This would help dryo a lot since it’s slower and has less stam than Utah atm and would this change might convince a few more people to play dryo more frequently. They’d still have to watch out for carnos and for sneaky Utahs that know how to ambush

[ancient ivy]

you should double check that, last time i checked a week ago, utah max speed is 46.8 km/h same as dryo and utah can sprint about 1 min 50 sec, dryo can sprint for 2 min, obviously this is not amazing but they are in fact running at the same speed

[next silo]

I feel like no herbi diets are at NE, at least no herbie that people actually play lol. teno has on NW, stego also has NW, how about make Teno NE? also make getting a perfect diet for teno SLIGHTLY easier

[next silo]

carno drift nerf

[vocal helm]

revert ptera's nerfs

[toxic prairie]

Once again I’m giving you the same balance feedback we have said before

Teno less stamina on Tailslam if it’s gonna be a Utility, or if you make both kick and Tailslam good for different situations buff Tailslam

Pachy: just revert the ram turn its unnecessary it should have 100% fracture consistency but lower the damage so it isn’t killing stuff 24/7.

Carno-: revert the acceleration buff. Give it slightly worse walking/standing turn radius so if relys on the charge more to win fights in a ambush

Stego water should slow down and reduce damage on the jab. Maybe reduce the turn radius when standing or walking so it can’t turn in a split and one shot me. Also figure something out for body gaurding that isn’t ridiculous

Diets go back to biome specific it gave you freedom without limiting you to one area

[onyx granite]

buff utah dmg back to 65, buff pachy, lower stun window to 5-6 seconds, lower turn radius a bit, pre-patch was silly, lower stam drainage while sprinting, its a hit and run but cant really RUN, people said to lower stam cost of headbutt but there isn't really a punishing factor there considering people had said pachy should have more end-lag which was really dumb so rather keep the stam cost the same.

[worthy edge]

Dealing with Stego population would be way easier if Stegos wouldn't be able to climb on Rocks for Example NW where all the Utahs sits on there is a second Rock a Stego can climb up with Tail on the the Ramp he came up and he will never die
Make Rocks that need a Jump at least a Teno jump to get up
People will see if a Stego won't be able to just camp on a Rock until his HP are restored they will have a much harder time

So before bring Rocks on Map make sure that a Stego won't be able to climb up as Adult Stego (that are the Stego Hot Spots btw) all Rock where a Stego can't die on will be a Stego Hot Spot

[gray bone]

Or remove the rocks entirely.
They look pretty but are such fortresses to anything with more than 5 health

[reef glade]

when playing as a utah i notice that carnos only need to bite near me to hit me. Im not sure if this is my ping or lag or something but it is pretty annoying.

[dawn geyser]

I have also been charged by a Carno and when he hit where I was standing before since I heard him an ran he knocked me and I died it was pretty annoying because he 1 shot me being I was hurt and semi small so he was BEHIND me BEHIND MY HITBOX and I died

Edit: my ping was my stars 20-40 (I’m guessing it wasn’t laggy earlier) and he still hit me so maybe dysinc?

[vocal helm]

keep deino’s underwater vision, but make it so you can see above the surface better from below
deino should be the only or one of the only semiaquatics to have the water sense, for the others can just have better underwater vision
when NV comes out, deino should have a good night vision distance, because it’s a crocodilian that has eyes that reflect light better at night

[ancient ivy]

tail bites should only cause bleed. as someone said it before, no organs there, just bones, muscle and blood. repeated tail bites should work as utah pounce, lets say 4+ bites are equal to full pounce by utah, and the more you keep running the faster you bleed out

[grizzled summit]

Give the hypsi a lil dance, to buff it's trolling potential

[rocky ember]

pachy nerf was worst decision if u are solo then u can't even 1v1 a utah beacuse if it gets on your tail you are dead buff it please

[stoic glade]

not sure if its my latency or itsthe game but as ptera it seems carno can grab me as ptera on the ground even if they not close anough to grab me...even if i take off flying and its look like im safe but somehow get snapped bacvk into their freaking jaws..i would love to see ptera instant take off being more quicker too.

[hazy zinc]

Buff Pteranodon's damage to 25, but readjust ptera's movement so it can't pull this crap. This video is from a friend of mine who literally could not do anything to counter this ptera player. While pteranodon certainly needs more damage than it has now in order to effectively hunt small dinosaurs, ptera's playstyle should not encourage CSGO type players who will never feel the touch of a woman to choose it for 1v1ing big dinosaurs.

On top of this, non jumping dinosaurs, like carno, stego, and deino should have some sort of counter against this. Something such as pressing shift to thrust their body upwards as carno, adding armor to the back plates of stego, and making adult deinos just plain immune to ptera pecks. just spitballing some ideas to make it so that ptera is both an effective hunter of juveniles/small dinos, but also doesnt enable those who have never seen sunlight from trying to sweat as it
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/844785369823707217/964227171382083644/8mb.video-AID-kUURzDZJ.mp4

[next silo]

is it me or is stego damage scale way off? I feel like when im a utah I lose 50% of my health when a stego half my size swings at me

[glass frost]

I really don't like that most rocks a Utah can jump up can just be walked up by basically every other dinosaur in the game aswell, even without jumping. Given its low and valuable stamina, there should be a few more rocks only climbable for utahs to give them a safe rest

[next silo]

why does ptera almost have the same growth time as utah? make it 45 min please?

[toxic prairie]

Why did ptera’s HP get cut in half???? It was fine as it was. Ptera is a empty husk of a creature and I can say this about a lot of the smaller tier creatures.

If you’re giving Dryo and ptera a bite force of 10 what’s Herrera or austro gonna be 15? The point is some of these creatures need to be able to function at being able to defend themselves from creatures of the same tier while also not being overtuned

Some of the smaller tier creatures like Ptera should have a bite of around 25-30 to efficiently hunt other smalls. Then once you introduce Herrera which should have a bite of 30-40 it isn’t super strong but is able to at least fight some bigger things if in a group making them more fun

TLDR: the smaller tier roster is most likely gonna be a bunch of pathetic weaklings who can’t do anything so at least make them able to defend themselves

[thorny wedge]

I may be completely off base with some of these thoughts but here are a few

1. i think stam drain for different creatures should be reanalyzed. Most herbivores in the wild have considerably more stam than the opposing predators. Some dont since shear size is a preditor deterrent (stego).

2. It feels like a lot of the tenos abilities just cost too much. Especially considering they loose all attack once out of stam. Maybe reduce the tail slam stamina and the claw stamina or make claws cause more bleed.

3. carnos have too much stam. For being such a fast creature running at top speed should definitely drain stamina quicker. Cant think of any predators with insane speed and stamina.

4. As it currently is carnos are way too powerful because of bugs on a lot of creature Either temporarily debuff the carno or fix all of the bugs on other creatures.

5. utah pounce. A utah is screwed if the pounce bugs. Since so many utahs die to bug pounces carnos can easily gobble them up especially with the new turn radius.

6. pachy ram. It is buggy right now and even if on your screen the hit landed (full animation and sound). The other player may not have been hit and just will kill you.

7. teno kick. given that this is the main teno attack now, the hit box should be reviewed. It seems to be buggy.

8. if you ment for pachy to be a hit and run creature. Why is carno still faster than a pachy with a broken leg? This should not be the case.

[queen oracle]

Can you revert the changes to carno? It makes no sense for carno to not slide a lot since it’s the weight of a car going as fast as a cheetah as well as a center of gravity about 2m off the ground, or to have a turn good enough to nearly match Utah, on top of the balancing issues it causes. Carno is so untouchable currently that the only effective way to kill carno is to grow a carno yourself to kill them off, ruining any fun in the process by playing other Dino’s. If they have blistering fast speed, they shouldn’t also get good turn with it, as it just makes it absolutely impossible to kill or get away from.

[mental goblet]

Nerf Stego's thanks I think they are too powerful and the tail swing rotate's out too wide/ too close to the head.

[next silo]

im not joking when I say this you can legit ride a pachy as carno and kill it like 80 times before you run out of stamina. balance

[median haven]

Ima just be honest right now, i think no creature needa nerfing rn, carno players can kill stego players in a 1v1 via baiting and tricking (quite easy actually), deinos can easily be killed the same way etc etc etc. In other words i think every creature in the game currently is accurate and anyone who says stego or carno or deino etc should be nerfed are just salty their being killed by those creatures, instead i would like to see THE COAST BEING BALANCED OMG, when i was a deino, i went to the coast and i obviously couldnt drink saltwater, but when i was at like 50% thirst, i started to try and find a way back up by going around tge waterfall and trying to find an area thar wasnt too steep to climb up, it took me sooooooo long to find a way up that when i finally got up, i died of thirst before i could even get 1/4 back to tge river. I was full healty before btw, please balance if deino is intended to be a creature that can explore the coast, and if it isnt, then why have its diet food there????

[novel sail]

Just let us wallow at riverbanks and swamps again. Mud is mud, dirt is dirt.

[lean bolt]

To add to this, it could even be balanced differently depending on the mud source.

Mud pools - Longer lasting and more effective, but harder find/in specific areas

Regular mud - More common and will work, but is not as effective as mud pools and goes away faster.

[vocal helm]

to add even more onto this, allow very large mudpools to hydrate deinos and hide them/submerge them completely until they move

[elder iris]

remove dam, or remove the part where carnos cant get over the step, its so annoying every times i bite a teno or a pachy, they just ju,mp over and heal

[livid igloo]

Teno tail slams on adult carnos and their absence of visual feedback
I think so far this game special abilities have a good visual and audio feedbacks on whether or not you landed your attack properly. I have however one big complain regarding the teno stuns (especially tail slam) vs an adult carnos. I think the "stun animation" if there is any should be revisited as right now it honestly looks more bugged out than anything. It does not technically affect the gameplay since the stun does land and you know why the carno is just completely standing still but it does look very goofy at best.

This compilation I made is full of these cases where carnos just stand still where I wrote "stunned" above their head. It would be great to have an actual animation where the carno looks visibly stunned or something like that.
https://youtu.be/MNbyjftgQsc?t=68

[velvet stone]

Alternatively, just make it so animals who can't jump can still step over terrain at ankle height (or more if it's appropriate) by holding the jump key.

[atomic grail]

Yall need to add something in the game. Its been a while, people are bored, its been a pain just to even play because everything has been killing everything that moves. Ive died more to pachys as a pachy than other carnivores. Tenos do the same, carnos just kill other baby carnos even when theres either carno bodies or others, then use the excuse "its part of our diet" when theres literally other bodies there. I have only seen utahs be passive to other players, and even thats rare.

[kind galleon]

Please add a flinch animation as a carno. Let me explain:

Recently going to rivers as a carno is near certain death, and really only safe places to drink are glitch spots.

I was thinking in real life when zebras or virtually any animal is attack by a crocodilian, or just any animal, they jump or flop away in a sort of movement that can save its life. It would be nice if there was a way to do a flinch or fast step back at the cost of a lot of stam to avoid a grab, though risking a high damaging bites.

[queen solstice]

Carno:
-Juvie diets of some kind
-Reduced bleed value
-Gut carnos tracking, making it a more line of sight hunter

Pachy:
-Charge turn radius reverted (update 4 release)
-Increased agility while running

Teno:
-Reduce Tail slam cost to about 7-8% from the current 10%
-Fixes to teno kick hitbox

Utah:
-Juvie diets

Deino:
-Juvie diets

Universal:
-No healing leg fractures while moving

Didn't add bugs to this, as these will hopefully be fixed

[elder iris]

yes that would probably be a better alternative, however something has to be done soon, the game just gets boring, because the only people who ever get off the dam are morons and its no fun to hunt them because theyre morons and dont know how to play

[toxic prairie]

Best thing for the Dam would be to remove it entirely and create a more natural dam that things can cross because it doesn’t make much sense for the man made Dam to be there in the first place. Unless there was some sort of facility they needed to protect from being run with water

[worthy edge]

to Coming back to Rework or Remove Rocks Stegos/Carnos can Climb on
thats why Stego is with Carno Currently the Easy Grow in the Game

[next silo]

more safe rocks where utahs can safely sit on without worrying of carnos being able to slightly climb it and use its broken hitbox to hit you.

[merry hare]

dont just change the stats of teno and carno. that's so boring, and we've done it 100 times before. whatever side loses in a 50/50 then goes to discord to complain, the the cycle starts again with the other dino on top.

instead, make teno a bleeder and a half. i say update 4.75 should be the bleed 2.0 update. dinos like carno should have horrendous bleed heal and resistance. that way utahs and tenos actually fend them off. fix utahs broken pounce, then drastically increase tenos bleed damage from claws and kick. teno should kick or slam to stun, the claw the shit outa the carno to make them bleed fast.

that doesn't mean a carno has a whole ten ass minutes to kill a teno after it has gotten enough bleed to kill it. It means if a carno gets hit by a teno enough, it should start to panic as its blood quickly decreases. if you give carno even 5 minutes to fully bleed out, then teno is just gonna be useless. it has to be a couple minute timer before the carno has to sit or wallow, or bleed out.

same goes for utah against a carno.

[opal seal]

I feel like pteras should automatically fly parallel to the water once they begin skimming it. The margin between "skimming" and "underwater" is too thin.

[vale seal]

How can a Stego swing a Ptera out of the air when they're flying above their spines? Fix hitboxes, they're all broken it seems.

Also, LET US ZOOM THE CAMERA OUT. Why is that even something that needs to be asked? Why change it to being super zoomed in for U4.5?

[vocal helm]

if diving in the coast gets added for ptera, give it good underwater vision (atleast in saltwater) and make it be able to stay still in the surface of the water to eat the fish without going on land

[stuck skiff]

The way that bleed works(most notably with utah) currently feels a bit aggressive. Perhaps this is your intention, but almost never is my dinosaur close enough to a mudpool to justify walking or running over to use it. It's smarter to stand or sit still rather than bleed my dino out on the way over. Some thoughts/ideas:

1. It would be fun to have riverside wallowing to make up for this, as people are far more likely to be fighting by a river than by a mudpool. (this should also make deino gameplay more exciting too with more ambush opportunities!)
2. Perhaps a different way to change the bleed balance would be to allow the same amount of bleed be inflicted from attacks, but the blood drain takes a longer time.
3. Alternatively, scale pouncing to take longer. The utah needs to hold on for longer to get a full pounce's worth of damage in, but the stamina drained from being bucked is slower to drain. The prey gets more time to respond with bucking, or trying to fight back other attackers. And if the Utah can't fall off from trees and bushes, then it hardly adds more risk to them.

I know utahs already have it tough as-is and don't need to be nerfed, but if there was a way to allow for more counterplay after getting pounced for a few seconds as a mid-tier dino i believe that would be an improvement. Smart utahs will wait their prey out and keep them from resting. If Utahraptor is going to have the highest bleed damage in the completed roster, then their balance seems fine to me tbh. Anything much more powerful with bleed attacks i fear would be overkill.

4. A way for players to know their prey is low on blood, or bleeding heavily, would help too. Many times i've seen utahs keep attacking a dino, not knowing that the prey is already doomed from blood loss, and will take hits for it even when they've already won.

[grizzled summit]

Make stego headshots take more dps

[umbral topaz]

Pachy should have more stamina or lower sprinting stam cost(something of this effect), this way pachy has a better chance at surviving a carno after breaking it's leg. This or maybe nerf tracking.

[toxic prairie]

We need a wallowing update. Mud pools are non existent….and they should be. I’m fine with these being auto clog for bleed and being super helpful. However we need dirt patches, mud patches or by the rivers to have less effective but can still stop bleeding. Maybe you need to roll around longer or bleed will take longer to actually stop and let you heal

[mighty ermine]

We just need a reliable (and plentiful) spot to find mud. The reason mud pools are so ineffective isn’t just due to how sparse they are, but also how hard they are to locate without a map. You can’t use any environmental clues to find mud, whereas before you’d go to areas with water such as rivers to find mud alongside it.

[worthy edge]

Nerf Carnos Tracking
Utah i can Understand but a Carno can never track you trough a Forest

[potent ether]

I like this, specifically the tracking for Carno should be very weak. It's not an endurance hunter to track bleeding dinos.

Utah pounce fixes are needed and that's about it.

Pachy I can see if a charged Ram has leg break priority with a slight decrease to running stam drain. But that's it.

Teno kick box and tail slam stam drain buffs.. that will be good

Those would be the things I'd address and I like they way you thought about Pachy and Carno specifically but a lil more will make things more even.

[ancient prawn]

I think that the hit boxes should be fixed as I have had many occasions where it was most definitely a hit. I have also heard from other ppl complaining abt the hit boxes.

[next silo]

nerf carno dps? maybe then it would need to be used properly other than fucking swing its body left and right to avoid kicks and tailslam it honestly looks like its on drugs. nerfing the dps will make ppl do HIT AND RUN which carno should be doing this whole time but nope, 1 ram to teno and you can tank it to death.

[gray bone]

Carno:
Gut carno's tracking.
Slightly nerf it's walking turn
Dont touch it's standard turn
Give juvie carnivores diets
Lower carno's bleed

Teno:
Fix teno's kick hitbox
Lower teno's slam stam cost
All around buff to its juvie stage
Allow it to claw attack while swimming

Pachy:
Fix pachy's ram hitbox
Redo its diet path
Either

A) revert the turning nerf

B) keep the turning nerf but allow charge to be held indefinitely, and increase both raw and fracture damage.

Increase running stamina
Speed up trot.
All around buffs to its juvie stage

Utah:
Fix it. You cant tell if it needs buffs or nerfs when the animal straight up doesn't work

Dryo:
Buff damage
Fix hitbox
Buff stamina
Buff speed by 1 kph so it's faster than utah
Give it omnidirectional dodge

Hypsi:
Cone shaped spit at the cost of range
Allow hypsi to run while spitting
Give it tree climbing and nesting

[shrewd rain]

The nerf to subadult Utah was uncalled for.
Before the nerf it had the tools to deal with adult Utahs and actually be better at hunting Dryos and young Carnos.
Now that its speed got gutted it's just worse than the adults in any way which basically invites you to abuse the juvi diets and sit in a bush until adult.

[sullen grove]

If the dinosaur can't jump, it should still be able to high-step. Makes no sense a massive animal would be forced to come to a full stop over a rock 1/8th its size, nor should it be forced to go around said rock. Also, this would fix issues such as the current wall problem, along with no longer leaving larger dinos stranded on a tiny ledge that smaller dinos can hop up.
The high-step would naturally be slower and whatnot, and definitely wouldn't go as high, but it would make more sense than say a rex getting stuck on a pebble.

[ancient prawn]

Fix carnos charge hit box it is terrible u can’t charge a single dino. It’s very buggy and its basically become useless to use

[worn rivet]

Make Pounce a better move without buffing it's damage.

[kindred topaz]

carno diet needs a bit of tweaking, mainly regarding AI. both carno and utah give the "S" diet which are the most common playable things to come across as a carno in wide-open plains areas, pachy are impossible to find because hardly any people play pachy, teno are less rare but often in herds with other herbis (usually stegos) who end up body guarding, making killing them a huge waste of time while your food drains...

deer are few and far between, i only ever find one or two when the servers restart, and i've never found a single goat. i've found frogs, rabbits, chickens etc. but never a goat. boars are the most common thing i come across but they don't give anything towards carnos diet either. my "S" diet is always far over 100% while the other two consistently remain empty

right now the simplest way to get a not-shit diet is just resorting to cannibalism given how common carnos are, which gets pretty damn boring (and frustrating if you're the one cannibalized) after a while

[next silo]

they can buff it so many ways while not touching its damage its actually ridiculous... for example, slow down dinos getting pounced, if a pachy is getting pounced it shouldnt be able to run around, if a stego is, then its no problem. increase stamina usage of buck for ADULTS, juvie utahs SHOULDNT cause bleed to adult dinos IMO, its annoying. make bucking for juvie utahs no stamina drain and make bucking for adults(scales up depending on how much adults) more stamina draining. also Stamina drain while having a 450(or more) KG backpack while running is going to take much more stamina. here is yet another buff, bucking while standing still should be kept, draining the stamina of utahs IMMENSLY, while running and bucking not so much as it is an obvious advantage, make both standing still and running while having a utah on your back equally as dangerous, running because more bleed, standing in taking the risk of another utah pouncing you.

[lavish tundra]

Could Carno make little charge damage and disturb move, just by proximity*speed ? Due to their size and weight, it is logical to me they have to be careful in their move. From a balance pov, it would make Carno team work more difficult, bigger the group is. Same logic could be applied to Stego.

[frank fable]

Either Stego really needs nerfs, or it needs a strong competitor. In it's current state, full grown Stego is untouchable, which I think encourages a lot of toxicity in the Stego playerbase.

[elder iris]

why can a stego walk on the dam but not a carno, fix this please biggest issue

[ancient prawn]

nerf carnos drifting

[hidden bough]

2 good utahs can bleed a stego if they know what they are doing. assuming the pounch isnt still broken that is

[runic token]

I don't see the point in fixing carnos skid, at most I would say tweak it so that it's skid still goes a long way, but less than what it does now, because even with the current skid it doesn't alter combat, at most it just makes you vulnerable or allows an animal to create distance during a chase. After some testing with the new skid pachy actually seems to be doing better against carnos now with it's skid combined with more consistent fractures.

[dense matrix]

Bring back the long drift (in a not bugged way), it was the most interesting thing you could’ve possibly done for Carno aside from fixing its hit boxes, for a moment Carno‘s skillceiling for chasing down prey skyrocketed whilst the degree of strain they put on the player bases of each server dramatically decreased, down to a level that I think would be really neat to see in a more functioning build of the game…

[little sinew]

Have the carno skid distance be based on how fast he is running and reduce the acceleration.

Adjust level design, it heavily impacts the balance of the game. Examples of this are food distribution for herbivores, river wideness, acessibility to certain areas as certain species (wall of the swamp, rocks as stegos) etc. Extend the swamp's water to surround the edges of the wall. The swamp is very poorly designed the edges are terrible, some are like a pit once you fall in you can't get back up, also doesn't let you properly ambush while others are super shallow and impossible to move undetected, shallow water should be mostly right in the middle of the swamp, also herbivore plants which have swamp as their location should spawn in the swamp, not around it, this would increase the number of encounters between semi aquatics and terrestrials. Add another swampy area to the north west area of the map where the rivers start, it would make the map more interesting to navigate around.

Bring back wallowing to certain areas of the edge of the rivers/swamps, not everywhere and not for the reason that mud puddles are hard to find, but once again to increase the chances of deinos and terrestrials having more interactions with each other.

Reduce the number of plants around the map and the plant types, there are very little herbivore species in the game right now. If you want them to actually compete for food, you shouldn't give each species 2 or 3 unique diet plant types to their particular species, have them overlap alot more with other species. Have herbivores have a single plant that is specific to their species diet and overlap the other 2 with other herbivores to create competition.

[onyx granite]

nerf swamp wall, players need to learn to play the game 😡 I literally see campsites on the thing by that i mean, all 3 of a herbivore's diet on the damn wall. please fix this.

[delicate wren]

I have 3 ideas to make pachy’s headbutt a bit easier to use consistently and have more skill expression.

1: Make headbutt able to be held indefinitely. There is already a downside to holding a charge, but it cancels after a few seconds. This makes it hard to chase off predators in the moment you can counter attack, they just run until your ram runs out then turn back on you. It makes carnis have an easier time to capitalize on a major flaw in pachy’s main defense. Allowing pachies to charge up forever removes the moment of vulnerability while you have to charge up another ram but still keeps you vulnerable to jukes. It also allows pachies to basically “stance up” before a fight by rearing in a defensive position, which just looks cool.

2: Change the way to cancel a ram. This goes along with the previous idea well. At the moment, you can cancel a charge by looking down or up. However, the angle to cancel while looking down is a bit too wide, I have had many charges canceled because I was looking down a hill at my target. Instead either make a left click cancel it, or make looking straight down cancel it (the same angle as you use to ground bash and open cocos)

3: Make turning while charging faster if you are walking/not moving. That way pachies can turn on a pursuing predator or stand its ground easier, but still make offensive attacks difficult. Especially since you can now start and stop sprinting while holding a charge. It’s a lot like the balance of carno drift, sacrifice your speed to gain mobility.

These 3 changes allow pachy to do a lot more with its headbutt than run straight at the enemy. It also creates a lot more skill expression with the many different ways to use it.

[spark galleon]

give pachy more health

[vale seal]

Pachy vs Utah, similar weight & grow time but doesn't feel balanced in a 1v1 at all.

Shoot me down if i'm missing something, I know Utahs are meant to be in a pack but its not always the case, especially with how strong Carno is I don't see many playing Utah atm

A Pachy headbutts you once (quite easy to land), they get ATLEAST another free hit on you when stunned & you're most likely 50% hp or alot less. If not body/leg fractured aswel.

You bite a Pachy, easier to land but it barely tickles them in comparison to them landing a single headbutt. If you land a pounce (almost impossible due to bugs & hitboxes) if they're not stupid you get bucked off within 5sec & they continue to try to land that one headbutt that'll end your dino.

[glacial marlin]

Please remove that small stun duration after letting go of pounce on Utah. I’ve died countless times now because I pounced a stego successfully, jumped off and couldn’t start running fast enough. I think you should be punished for missing pounce with the big stun but not for successfully pouncing… also fix all the bugs surrounding pounce mechanics.

[ancient prawn]

nerf stego at this point its become an apex predator me and my friend tested out how much damage the stego can take and its just ridiculous i think that they should ether decrease its health or decrease its damage(even though the stego isn't even a predator )(same)

[gray bone]

This is a continuation of my last post in #general-feedback because it got too long.

LARGE GAME
Large game for carno would be considered thing just under it's weight. Namely teno. Due to carno's nerfed bite force brawling teno is a death wish.
Carno would likely stalk tenos for quite a while. Waiting for the perfect opportunity to strike. Once the carno and teno are in desirable positions, the carno will crouch in some cover and wait. Carno would get a special variation of charge when couched, upon holding right click THEN starting to sprint carno can instantly charge out of crouch. This almost instantly shreds through It's stamina but if the carno can pull the rest off, its well worth it. Upon colliding with the teno the carno will have to perform the aforementioned thrash attack it used against small game. This will melt teno's health but it wont be enough. Upon finishing the thrash the carno must instantly start hitting the teno with a barrage of bites, giving it's prey absolutely no breathing room. If the carno does not instantly engage, the teno will assume a defensive posture and the carno likely wont be able to get past it's tail and legs. If the carno pulls all of this off, it gets quite the good meal, likely feeding it for literal days. However if it misses the charge, or fucks up the thrash, the carno will be out of stamina right next to a very angry teno. The charge itself wont do much damage mind you, so if you fuck up the thrash its lights out.

I hope that this would create a more skill based playstyle with high risk high reward gameplay. With counters to carno being attentiveness and good jukes.
It would also allow carno to feel mush more fluid while moving outside of hunts, without causing balance issues. Carno would have a weakness, that being it's stamina reliant finisher. And would overall make carno much more fun to play as, and against.

[toxic prairie]

Add this for bigger creatures like Stego and Carno

Bigger creatures like Carno, Allo, Stego etc should have a step up ability where even though a model like a log would normally just stop movement, a step up ability allows for them to simply walk over it or raise up to walk on it.

This could also be applied to MANY rocks in the game where if it can reach it with a step it can pull itself up.

[delicate wren]

All I have to say is thank you for fixing pachy ram. Ever since the update, I have had far less issues with the ram itself. I have barely had to deal with phasing through carnos (might just be me releasing too early). The pachy ram and carno charge interaction seems to finally be a definite rib and skull break respectively. A ram is a definite break. And most importantly, I can finally get leg breaks consistently. All around, y’all seem to have fixed the main inconsistencies in pachy ram. Now all we need is just a scent nerf for carno and maybe a running stam buff for pachy next update and pachy should be in a much better spot to break and run.

I just wanted to give feedback that what you have done seems to actually be working.

[hazy zinc]

So... about tenonto.... It’s kick attack appears to do more damage than its tail slam currently. Meaning that the kick:
-costs half the stam as tail slam
-is a faster attack
-does more damage
-can be used while moving
-deals bleed
Tail slam is literally only useful when trying to hit an opponent at a range. Kick is otherwise the better option every single time. This should probably be looked into.

[lavish tundra]

Could we have a automatic run mode? No walk, just run. Eventually, with a very short accelaration time. Accelaration time that increase if the animal is particularly heavy

[elfin panther]

DISCONNECTING WHILE BEING ATTACKED TO AVOID DEATH

So today we've been hunting 2 big stegos (male and female) as utahs. We were focusing the female the first and when she was hurt really badly just disconnected by sleeping while we were attacking her (spamming M1 at that point), etc. For future updates I'd love to see this way to avoid death fixed (which is not even a way to avoid it because she's going to die due to bleed when she logs back in). Like not being able to sleep if you're getting attacked, at least by things bigger than a little utah biting your ankles. We all felt that our effort has been absolutely meaningless and really far from feeling rewarded for getting that far.

[worn rivet]

Pounce stopped being useful when you guys took the acceleration after you jump off. I let go of something and just stand there waiting to take any other move in the game that basically kills me instantly

[rocky ember]

add any dino that can counter stego ik utah or deino is a thing but it isn't enough

[strange linden]

Balanced the bonuses between dinosaur classes, pleeeease.
Example: Carnivores have no food preference up to 50%, they can smell while walking and, I don't know if it's an impression but they mostly have a shorter growth time than their equivalent herbivore.

[molten bay]

So, right now the only dino that can reliably kill a stego is a utah, but there's no motivation at all to actually risk your life to kill one because you get the same nutrient it gives from carnos, which are easier to find,hunt and less risky overall, so why would I risk it and go for a stego?
To fix this you can make stego give the // nutrient to utah instead of the S nutrient so that utah packs are actually motivated to go for stegos.

[novel sail]

Cap stego at 50-75% growth until we have something to challenge it, like allos,which were their predators back in the day.

Salty edit: stego was a mistake. Bring Kentro's ass over here.

[grim gorge]

Or just for the time being make stegos weight four tons and so deino can't grab it nerf deino to four or six tons why cap when you could just change some values around for the time being

[lavish tundra]

I agree, Stegos are way too powerful to where they are not fun to play or fight. They are completely broken right now and grief players constantly.

[hearty field]

Stegos are way too powerful with the current carnivore lineup (carno, utah, deino, ptera). Many players who play stego are incredibly aggressive and know they can get away with anything they want. There have been countless instances whereby stegos will run into the river and start swinging on full grown deinos knowing they could kill anything that attempts to get near them.

My recommendation(s) on stego, increase the stamina consumed when swinging tail, reduce their health pool, or cap their maximum growth (72-75% i.e., the % where a full grown deino can grab and drown) until mid-large sized carnivores are added into the game (preferably allo).

[quasi tundra]

Please put stego in carno diet. Before the diet update carno megapacks were what kept the stego pop in check but now they never fight eachother so there are just carno and stego megapacks.

[lavish tundra]

So even more weaken the herbivores. So that nobody plays it anymore. Good plan

[lavish tundra]

give deino 600-800 bite force so it can stand a chance fighting a stego that does 1200 n force OR get rid of stegs quick swing

for deino bite force for steg quick swing

[vocal helm]

add juvie diets for deino until 50% where it’s just the current diet, and make it so once you’re 50% and up fish disappear from your diet to encourage cannibalism and not have all rivers filled with deinos

[ember mist]

Remove bucking for carno and don't tell them. 75% of carno players wouldn't even notice.

[vocal helm]

add ai in the coast and allow pteras to fish by diving and also let them rest on the surface of the water to eat their fish without going on land with better underwater vision

[ionic maple]

Make tenos more resistant to fractures from pachys, mainly to make it a little more difficult for pachys trying to gang bonk it, it should still get fractures just not as likely as carno for example which is more than capable of running away.

[thin fable]

carnos should not be allowed to apply ram dmg and apply a cc from a ram hitting the tiniest furthest tip of a teno's tail.

[zealous finch]

Carnos need a penalty for making sharp turns at speed, they shouldnt be able to turn on a dime and the small skid they have right now doesnt give them much hinderance imo - there should be a risk of them falling over if they stop/turn while running

[shrewd rain]

Instead of nerfing Stego to indirectly buff Carno even more, make its diet harder by reducing the overall amount, spawn rate and density.

This might not impact adults too much, because the diet debuffs are mild at the moment, but it makes it much less convenient to grow yet another Stego when there are already lots of them.

[coarse ermine]

I think this is balance considered. Herbi dieats are a pain in the ass, carnis have free ticket growth till 50% , then they search for their desired diets and they got like 7 to 8 choices, as a herbi u only get 3 and 15% diet when u start. Maybe add more choice to herbi diets and control how much diet we get from each of the herbs, for example if agave and pumpkin would we for 1 diet , agave would fill 10% of your diet as in pumpkin would fill it for 15% (im talking with a stego in mind) but the concept could work for every herbie, so instead of runnin around u could take a herb that gives u less diet or something. just my perspective of how it could work.

[molten bay]

Now that ptera weighs 45Kg, It's not worth growing for 40mins just to get one shot by a raptor, its growth time should now be reduced to about 25-30mins.

[umbral storm]

Pure AI perfect diet should be a thing for carnivores again. Especially in less busy times and on generally low populated servers carnivores get a built-in disadvantage thanks to an unreliable AI spawn system and missing player controlled prey items. Additionally it keeps you busy and gives you reason to leave hot spots. Building overpopulated hot spots obviously is a thing you want to avoid.

[merry hare]

cera should be like those lil lizards that'll bite stuff so hard, even if the thing is swinging around, they just like latch on.

just imagine a cera ambushing a carno, it grabs its neck and just latches on. it'd be like a stam battle between carno and cera. carno takes stam to tryen escape the bite. cera takes stam tryna continue to bite. then if carno escapes it should have insane bleed and damage on its ass.

cera is the isles chance to finally get rid of carnos horribleness that has plagued evrima since update 2

[ionic maple]

I honestly feel like they should just boost its weight back up to 90kg, there aren't that many dinos/creatures in the game and before it was an actual threat to all juvies. Now fresh spawn tenos and carnos already weigh more than it and a 15% grown utah can pin it to the ground and kill it. I agree that its growth time should be reduced if the weight stays the same but they should bring it back up until more dinos come in. Even just up to 75-80kg I would be happy with for the moment.

[lavish tundra]

I think a lot of the problems with balance can be fixed with temporary changes to dinos. for example, make stego weigh less for the time being so they aren't invincible and can't face off multiple adult deinos by swinging their tail in the water (completely not fun for anyone). also make carno almost like and allo or an average mid tier so its not a literal anti utah machine. maybe reduce its speed or make it as fast as a utah, its a stretch but something has to be done. maybe someone has a better idea. utah players know, you have to cower in fear from carnos. Im thinking maybe make these changes until the roster expands and theres an carnivore that can hunt a stego, and more mid tiers so not everyones a carno. less carnos means utah is a viable pick, because right now carno is just utah but better.

the almighty cera will save the isle and put the carno reign to bed. #boycottcarno #cerathesaviour

[subtle barn]

I would love to see private servers get the ability to customize things like water food and nutrient drain, along with day night cycles. So that server owners can customize the gameplay experience and allow food water and nutrient depletion to be in sync with the passage of time in their server.

[lavish tundra]

Could we adjust Carno's charge doing knockdowns on the tip of tails?
It makes it far too effective

I'd also like adjusting lowering the stam cost for Teno's tail slam
Giving Pachy some slight tweaks to help out the guy

While also lowering growth times for Pachy/Dryo/Teno. The ratio in population is not distributed correctly.
Partly I believe because growing as a herbi is far more taxing, and far more longer.

[livid igloo]

On Teno's kick and its radius / angle
I'm not a huge fan of the direction Teno has taken as I feel Tail slam was more interesting to play. However if you're gonna keep teno centered around kick so much for damage dealing in a "stam efficient" way. Then I think the hitbox of kick should be readjusted. There are way too many times you look visibly right on top of your target but it doesn't hit, or worse if you're at too much of an angle despite being visibly on target it will not hit. This can extremely frustrating.

Here's a prime example of what I mean. At 2:40 when that smaller carno is on the ground I'm clearly over his head and kick and it doesn't register (might also be audio bug?...), I then have to once again stay on the same spot but readjust my angle to actually hit despite being right on top of him. This type of stuff happens all the time. The hitbox of kicks just feels gimmicky at best. I hope it gets some attention a bit for update 5.0
https://youtu.be/j8W0keKUkYs?t=159

[hazy zinc]

enough of stegos being able to climb this rock. this massive pack of raptors wants to hunt it but they literally cannot do anything about it because of the stego's positioning. rocks should be exclusive areas that only small dinosaurs that can jump/pteranodon can access. nothing larger than a utah should be abusing them.

[onyx granite]

please bring back some aspects of old pachy and move the camera abit more back for all smalls, i dont know why most players have to be forced to play at a certain view aswell, should be an option. https://youtu.be/FpC4XVFPn9Q this was the most fun i had with pachy, so fluid and smooth and all around very fun, now it feels way too easy to hit fractures with tap-charge, it feels very weird to play the dino now and i can see it getting very boring very fast, please consider slight tweaks in the dino like we've been asking, pachy is a pretty basic creature but it can be made into something so fun to play as even solo with a bit of risk ofc, risk being that the opposing dino isnt so smart or just smart

[livid igloo]

This right here is why I never play utah
I have some feedback regarding the pounce which was fixed last patch according to the patch note. I have progged and lost 3 Utahs so far, all while attempting to pounce someone. There's nothing more frustrating than actually braining your opponent, pulling off what should be a good rewarding pounce only to actually disapear into another dimension. This is some 6th sense stuff right here. Utah pounce has been more or less broken since Utah reappeared on QA in like september last year... Please fix it once and for all.
I see dead Utahs.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWQ7gXL_J5M

[grim gorge]

Keep trying to balance the game less around stuns. As it stands stuns are what makes or breaks a creature unless we are talking about stego or deino.(simply because they hit hard and are fat af compared to the rest of the roster) Creato is a step in the right direction being able to hold its own by not stunning something 50 times.

[livid igloo]

About this recent patch
Utah
Once again, pounce is still broken more than 6 months after it was broken on QA. No need to balance anything while its best ability is a russian roulette

Tenos
Tenos is in a good spot overall but its kick hitbox is way too gimmicky compared to other abilities in the game (see my point above). Stam cost of tail slam is currently a bit too high considering how little damage it does and that it's a skilled ability to land properly in a fight.

Carnos
Carnos just turn too fast, charge also turns too fast. Charge hitting the tail often does the full body damage which seems more like a bug than anything. It's way too easy to prog at the moment due to the 50% initial boost and nerf to hunger decay rate.

Stegos
Nerf total blood pool by about 15% and make it so that it can't one shot carnos to the head anymore. Carnos and Utahs will most likely attempt more often to bleed them dry and depop some of them who just end up stacking up at the and staying alive while doing nothing more than grieffing and body camping since they are bored out of their mind

Pteras
Buff their damage a bit so that they can more easily hunt down juveniles and add more dinosaurs their diet. It's boring to play at the moment. No one complained about Pteras being OP in 3.5...

Pachies
They are in a good spot I think overall if Carnos get their turn rate reduced a bit and hunger increased which should decrease the amount of carnos running around in unsustainable megapacks

Drinking through terrain
This should definately be addressed as a priority as it is ruining the game and creating safe "hubs" where players just stack up and multipack because they have a safe drinking spot. It also completely ruins the game for deinos...

Ragdolls performance
Ragdolls performances have been a mess since patch 3.5. As soon as bodies start to pile up everyone's performance just tank miserably. Combine that with the oasis or drinking through terrain which encourages people to now stack up and fight North west and you have a good recipe for miserable performances.

50% bonus to carnivores
Carnivores are super easy to prog at the moment, it's pretty much AFK the whole thing. I think the 50% initial bonus while a good idea lasts too long and should be more like 25%

[toxic prairie]

Pachy needs to consume way less stamina when running. It relys heavily on its stamina for a charge it should not consume that much stam when running

I also don’t like the way Teno has gone. Tailslam was much more interesting of a mechanic. I say revert the changes to Tailslam OR let Tailslam consume way less stamina and make kick more effective

[desert coral]

Dryo need more stam

[crisp pasture]

Pachy needs a walking speed increase. It has the same speed as stego. (a 4 legged animal that ways 6 tons)

[frosty cedar]

To the above, I would add that utha pounce is broken due to the fact that if you jump into the forehead of some dinosaur, you will be teleported either to the right or to the left side. As I understand it, the system does not have time to figure out which way it is best to teleport you.
I think it's possible to rewind utha to the first patch, in the sense that when utha pounce on karno in the forehead, he could catch on from the front, and karno of course can also bite utha. There are a lot of scenarios for how this can be implemented

-add some kind of utha reset animation

,,like the example of teno and his 3 scream,,,
,,,carnot , for example, can just throw utha with his head,,,

--in this case, the victim will be able to deal damage only to the target that attacked from the front
,,,with reduced damage,,,

Sorry for my English..

[inland knot]

Juvi tenonto shouldn't stun a utah that is 74% grown

[mortal musk]

Not sure if anything can be done but you can still see deinosuchus when it's moving underwater. I've been able to spot them when they're moving toward me while drinking.

[sullen dock]

New tracking system pls. With the current tracking system it's almost impossible to run away and this doesn't make any sense.

[delicate wren]

After the bug fixes to ram, pachy is in a much better spot, but there are still some issues.

--Tap fractures. Currently, pachy can break a carno's leg sometimes with a tap ram instead of charging, which should not be the case.

--You can't escape a carno. The "hit and run" playstyle for pachy does not work because you cant "run" from the carno. The reasons are below:
A: Fractures are not impactful enough. By the time you get a break on a carno, you are likely around half stam (unless someone has a skill issue). So you cant escape them with a leg fracture because they have more stam and are nearly as fast as a pachy, rib breaks just make you both even on stam, and a head fracture doesn't completely stop them from running you down. So you need to get 2 breaks, which is risky and puts you on even lower stam.
B: Tracking is wallhacks. The current tracking is broken, so you have no chance to escape because the carno can just regen its stam faster than you, while also being faster.

Some ways to fix this are to 1: nerf tracking, 2: make bone breaks more impactful, and/or 3: make running cost less stam for pachies

[hazy zinc]

To follow up on this, literally just bring tracking to how it used to be. You sniff, you pick up information about all of the recent footprints/blood/food in your general vicinity. If you want to track a trail but are unable to because you lost the scent, oh well, that's on you. mixing up your footprints so that enemies can't track them should be a viable strategy. They shouldnt be handheld with an obnoxious glowing arrow.

[rare shard]

don't get me wrong I feel pachy is under powered, but something almost 3x smaller than myself that can knock me down is just ridiculous.... why not tell me I (6ft1 210lb) can be knocked down by my 70lb Niece...... Pachy needs a buff but this is silly. I literally engage adult 100% raptors and WIN!!! while 60% as I'm 600-650kg but lose horribly to something almost 3x smaller than myself. I'm not calling for carno buff pachy nerf because that would be stupid. But..... this just doesn't work or at the very least is silly. I've never once looked at a 5 year and thought I would lose the fight, nor should I look at something 3x smaller than me and be scared..... EDIT pachy is 500kg flat
I wish to edit the above slightly further, I am 6ft1 210lb, I could charge a 300lb man and knock him over.. Momentum and physics say this much but the thought that I could charge someone 600lb+ and knock them over is just silly....

[sudden drum]

Thats the Reason why i dont want Herbivores be able to 1 v 1 a Carnivore if its bigger or the same Size. Most Herbivores live in Herds and are only strong together but if everybody wants every Herbivore to be able to 1 v 1 every Carnivore its getting Impossible for Carnivores to even get one out of the Herd. Herbis should be weaker then some Carnivores and should always look for a Group or a Herd to survive or have better Chances to survive. And for Herd Herbivores it should always be a Death sentence if they are alone against a Bigger Carnivore or Multiple smaller ones

[delicate wren]

To add on to my previous post, here are some nitpicks i have with the ram:
--Ram feels clunky. The main way to use the current ram is to run straight at the enemy and hit them. This means theres not as much skill expression and even carnos can just easily strafe to dodge it.

--The cc immunity is also a break immunity. If you break a carno, it has essentially 10 seconds to do whatever it wants because you cant hurt it.

I have 2 main ideas on how to fix these issues:

1: Allow solo pachies to combo their hits. Before the nerfs came in, I was able to break a carno's leg, then turn to break its face before stun ran out. This instantly ended the fight, but was very hard and risky, if I missed the skull break I was stunned right in its face. So, I would like to allow pachies to combo their own hits together, while not allowing a horde to just mob a carno. To do this, make the bone break immunity not count for a solo pachy. If a pachy rams a carno, then it can ram again during the cc immunity time to break a second bone, but not stun. However, if a different pachy tries to ram during the immunity timer, then it doesn't bone break. So solo pachies can break multiple bones quickly, but a swarm can not just gang up on a carno and break every bone.

2: Change the ram to make the it more skill expressive: A. make the ram last infinitely until canceled and B. make turning while charging quicker if you aren't sprinting. Making the ram last until canceled should stop the instances of the ram running out right as you reach the target. Also, to make the ram be canceled easier, make it canceled with lmb. There are also 2 downsides to just holding a charge, slower turning and less damage on the ram. Also, turning faster while not running should also help pachies stand their ground and ward off pursuers. It will allow them to shake off a carno and ram it before it gets on their tail again and defend themselves from a raptor attack, but be vulnerable to surprise attacks and baits.

[next silo]

I get deino got nerfed to fit the roster, but stego didnt?

[little sinew]

Revert the pachy's turn while charging a headbutt to be fast to allow it to better defend itself. Problem is more about pachys hunting bigger things with their charged headbutts, so give it back the turn radios and make them sprint slower when they are holding the charged headbutt instead. This would allow the pachy to manuver better defensively and would nerf them chasing bigger dinos charging at them to bone break by making the charged ram slightly slower. You can still chase things of your own size without a speed penalty because you will only need to use the tap ram for those smaller things, while bigger things you might get punished for chasing them with the speed decrease since the tap ram is mostly uneffective and there is a higher chance of you missing the charged ram.

A tap ram shouldn't stagger or bone break something like a carno and considering how nearly impossible it is to get away from carnos after the last patch, manuverability on the only hability that allows you to bone break a carno is a must.

Also take a look at fracture healing while standing, it feels way too good right now. Also make it so you can't recover stamina without resting if you have a body or leg fracture. There seems to be some visual bugs that ocasionally the target is still fractured but it shows a walking animation and sometimes you can't really tell if the target is fractured or not.

[dusty fiber]

please consider implementing the "long drift" bug that carno previously had as an actual mechanic, it made fighting and evading carno packs a whole lot more fair, im also replying to this message so you can read this other feedback by GamingPara and the one under his by Fluffclaw as they also make good points

[spark sky]

Considering that Carnotaurs are supposedly using their skulls as weapons too, pachycephalosaurus headbuts probably shouldn't do nearly as much damage to carnotaur heads as they do. Additionally, their skulls/heads should probably be much more resilient in general than they currently are in game.

Also, stegos should give // for the carno diet.

[sullen dock]

You shouldn't be able to track things while sprinting, please just balance tracking

[merry snow]

Nerf carnos its ridiculous they are everywhere. Make it so they turn around slower or have lower stam but nothing can beat it in a 1v1 with equal skill (besides stegos and deinos but they are to slow to really do anything) only way to kill them is to group up on them or to be really skilful with terrain but in open field you are just doomed. This all wouldnt be a problem if there where a few and if it was hard to grow but thats clearly not the case because on most servers its 50% carnos and 50% others. So making it harder to grow would also help solve the problem through making it that the juviles dont get a stupid grow boost by just eating they should also run around the map. And with the AI being plenty babies dont have to struggle to kill other babies for food or find other carnos that killed something that they are wiling to share. To many carnos was always a problem but now its just getting extreme. (I am not suggesting this all should happen but at least 1 or any other way so the carno pop gets reduced). Just my thoughts as a herby main so I am a bit biased 😛

Shorter version: Carno are to easy to grow and to keep alive for how strong they are and because of that there are way to many of them (most servers I play on 50% of other dinos that I see are carnos, last night I was sitting on a rock with 2 other pachies and there where 20 carnos circling us on a 100 pop server).

[rocky ember]

do something about the fall damage it should break legs and not insta kill

[merry hare]

2 semi competent carno players took all of north west over. a better way to say that is they took it over from 4 tenos and 3 pachies.

they just went 30 feet away and spammed charges at the herd, whenever they landed one they would kill the teno before it could even get out of the stun. the pachies would leg fracture the carnos, then proceed to be chased down... not sure how that one is balanced. everytime we would get 2-3 kicks on them, they would go heal and be back in 10 minutes. not sure why their heal was as good as ours. in the end one of us logged on a rock because he had no chance at fighting them, and i just crossed the river 50 times to escape them....

the main problem is that for some god damn reason, they can reach top speed real fuckin quick. so a carno can be real close, start sprinting, and somehow charge you.

carno can't stun your tail, that's good, but they still take away a quarter of your health if their charge hits your tail. which is quite silly if you ask me.

and a carno landing a charge on a teno is about the same death sentence, as a teno landing a kick on a utah. even if it doesn't kill you while you're stunned, it will just face tank you from behind after that. the only difference is, in this fight, the teno would be faster then the utah, so the utah can't escape.

teno is in a fine place, carno is not.

[vale seal]

Don't nerf Teno walking speed, please & thankyou.

[mortal musk]

Teno and stego needs a crouch walk to be able to get away from the auto tracking system. Maybe they don't visually crouch but are able to walk more quietly and leave no tracks.