general-feedback-discussion

[lavish quail]

It makes total sense

also 4 goddamn months man

and a year before that

[low canopy]

they'd just scream "rex rex rex!", no thanks

[lavish quail]

No one wants rex

and its not like a public chose whatever you want

its here is your options chose one

[low canopy]

a lot of people want that, they are just silent about it. Apexes are by far the most popular

[lavish quail]

hence why it shouldnt be an option

[low canopy]

hence why i rather have devs choose so i can trash talk their decision making afterwards (see carno)

[lavish quail]

Dilo+herra+cerato+troodon should of came before carno

[compact hare]

not balanced for now, not enough mechanics, bugs, missing animations
there are a lot of reasons options like rex or idk, theri shouldnt be worked for now

[lavish quail]

and even more before deino and steg

like kentro beipi and other stuff

[low canopy]

Yes! And it feels good to trash talk those decisions becuase its totally justified

[limber hull]

you would be surprised lmao

[compact hare]

lel

[lavish quail]

Sorry i forgot those people who want legacy rex in evrima

And i just missed a QA spot -_-

pain

[lavish quail]

hence why the decisions shouldnt be made in the first place

People are gonna trash talk carno and deino and steg for another few months

mabye another year based on balance

[low canopy]

its not like they'd listen to player base anyways, they listen to what they want and ignore the rest without providing feedback as to why, and they dont have to

[lavish quail]

They definitly should

maybe leave the programming cave to reset QA once in a while too

[compact hare]

I agree they should have kept developing smaller creatures but oh well guess players dont have patience

[lavish quail]

Im 100% sure kentro would of been a better option than steg and bary a better option than deino

[compact hare]

We kinda had an option to choose a playable few time ago, comunity dino (aka Deinocheirus)

[lavish quail]

Kinda is the word tho

[low canopy]

we did not

There was no vote or anything about it

[silver zephyr]

kentro would've been cool if they decided to not include ai for an apex in the second update of the game

[low canopy]

which is why its so hilarious to have it called "community dino" since community had no say on the matter

[lavish quail]

Cant wait for them to release some dumb shit like Human Ai and get fucking mauled

[compact hare]

it was talked about pretty often but no votes for it, thats why I said kinda

[lavish quail]

Isle devs aren't great at the whole social aspect of making a game

[low canopy]

its still a good pick imo, most "community" animals are meme animals and belong in trash cans

[compact hare]

kapro moment

[lavish quail]

(ignore this)

[silver zephyr]

[compact hare]

what

[limber hull]

what

[lavish quail]

They fear talking to the community

i probably didnt write that correctly

[limber hull]

as someone who's worked on a big multiplayer game as a manager for game design before, that's fair lmao

[lavish quail]

made a game once based on Nerds on tiktok

[low canopy]

its just a bunch of keyboard warriors though

[lavish quail]

didnt go awful tbf

[limber hull]

yea but with communities like this

[lavish quail]

garbage just to clarify

[limber hull]

yea, devs staying absent is fair

[compact hare]

they just cant say everything, makes part of the job
same with QA, they cant say everything, but its not fear its just part of their job
(I believe)

[limber hull]

i was basically the only person in development management, or really dev as a whole, to actively interact with them since i could take their shit

[low canopy]

as long as it wont impact the game negatively in the long run i suppose its okay, but making decisions in their small echo chamber can yield some interesting results

[lavish quail]

Srly tho should have someone in charge of reading feedback and finding things that everyone hates with a passion before adding it

Then again that would mean no magy-

magy my holy beast

[limber hull]

i mean, QA likes to basically go monkey mode whenever something they don't like comes up

its actually amusing

[compact hare]

lmao I imagine

[lavish quail]

@quaint kayak just made a brilliant point

perfect timing

[radiant dagger]

@lavish quail Sorry what Is ETA ?

[lavish quail]

Estimated time arival

i think

just a time where it comes

[radiant dagger]

Ok thanks

[rare fractal]

That is indeed what it means

[fickle mountain]

Has anyone heard if/when the devs plan on fixing the losing dinos bug? Like what other survival game RNG's whether or not you'll have your progress saved upon log in. Safe Log is a critical and yet BASIC feature. How is it not fixed?

[hoary dawn]

for some reason they decided to wait for update 4's release to put in the fix, the bug is gone in the stress test so i suggest playing that until the update comes out

[hybrid matrix]

ok
so
from my below less than average knowledge of coding, if they released a bug fix before update 4, then they'd have a whole new load of problems afterwards which would mean another bug fix which could delay update 5
also they're always working on fixing bugs, but they can't always release a fix until they know what's causing it. so even if they know about a bug, they might not have a clue what's causing it, and if they did a separate bug fix from update 4, then it could delay the update, so it's easier to just work on bugs in the background and release the fix with the update
there's 2 reasons that i can think of off the top of my head
if you want to know more than ask a moderator

this is for you as well

[hybrid matrix]

its also for you

[hoary dawn]

ik

[hybrid matrix]

it was mainly meant for judasevangelium
im glad that you understand

[hybrid matrix]

@worn saddle you really need to hear this bro

also its rude to call people incompetent
and its ironic to say it while being enormously impatient

oh i almost forgot, the devs dont work on weekends

[hybrid matrix]

actually the game is doing ok
but im not gonna defend dondi since i dont pay enough attention to him to know about that situation

[zealous violet]

I meant food for the humans. But food for dinos works too!

What if its like a Loki situation now, since we've not heard hide nor hair of him in a pretty long time. Maybe LOKI SPOILER AHEAD ||Maybe theres actually no one at the helm now and the rest of the devs are scrambling and continuing to pretend there is a leader||

[hoary dawn]

[tepid gate]

Idk about the "enormously impatient" part - it's been 2 months since the livebranch has become unplayable. I'd say that being angry with the gamebreaking bug still being present after such a time is not really being impatient at all.

As for why they haven't hotfixed it - I honestly am not sure but if I had to guess I'd assume that it's caused by this weird way of patching where seemingly every(or at least most) patch seems to contain the entire build and require us to download ~16gb every time.

[barren cloud]

Servers down?

[rare fractal]

Especially considering this bug has been fixed in QA for a few weeks

[zealous violet]

AU is up but it took a minute for it to pull up.

tons of carno on right now.

[limber hull]

why does everyone want troodon upsize

[hoary dawn]

i very much doubt the one we saw in the dev stream was its final size anyway, that thing was smaller than hypsi

its still very much a wip animal

[limber hull]

i dont think it should be anywhere utah sized

its meant to be in the smallest size-tier

like, around the same size class to a hypsi

[hoary dawn]

extra small weight class

it should be small, but not smaller than hypsi

[limber hull]

well yea

but i dislike the idea of it getting significant upscaling

[hoary dawn]

me too

[limber hull]

the whole "tiny predator" is really cool imho, making it a small-tier would honestly be lame, especially since that's dilo's job

[hoary dawn]

the one in doc nova's charts is what i always imagine it as

https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/RaSWjme4xCgd-8vY1SIdT-l9kcC2xjLOFti559-zbSA/https/i.imgur.com/b4z5mck.png?width=1440&height=298

[paper oriole]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/401481371249541120/899454473137688586/image0.jpg

Wtf is this

[limber hull]

yea idk man

if i wanted another utahraptor i'd say so

[cyan flame]

! :D

[paper oriole]

Also they do know that there is no actual dinosaur called troodon right

Isle troodon is a totally fictional species theres no specimen to base it on except jp troodon or some troodontid like stenon which is small

[limber hull]

troodon's size is also completely balanced, since it's completely counteracted by how many unique abilities this thing has

[paper oriole]

Largest troodont is literally a sub utah clone

Would make it so boring

[limber hull]

agreed

one of troodon's appeals to me is its size

i like the idea of playing this smaller predator that is extremely risk/reward

[paper oriole]

Hes not even hypsi tiny hes oviraptor size isnt he

Hes bigger than velo

[limber hull]

ovi is bigger iirc

[honest sparrow]

Tiny shitter seems more appealing than Utah with a different dot affect

He’s bigger than ovi

Smaller than Beipi

[paper oriole]

People want everything to be as big as possible like why

[honest sparrow]

10 ton deino is cool tho

[paper oriole]

For brawlers sure but for something like troodon who will specialize in venom and stealth wtf

[limber hull]

yea, big brawlers are fine

but troodon is literally meant to be the opposite of a brawler

[paper oriole]

Brawlers have reason to take the biggest specimen size

Troodon will get oneshot by most of the roster even with an upsize

It would just harm it to be bigger

[honest sparrow]

For shit like troodon, herra, and Beipi smaller estimates makes sense

[limber hull]

troodon is fully built as this pack-focused, hyper-small, damage-over-time ambush/endurance hunter. AKA the opposite of what brawlers are supposed to be

[paper oriole]

Like utah, troodon will function around not getting hit in the first place

Brawlers are supposed to be able to trade hits

Making it bigger would make it easier to see and easier to hit

[limber hull]

honestly, brawlers should scare the shit out of troodon, since if we had a cera decide "hmmm yes, i want this kill now" after troodons just killed a teno and walk up to take it, its not like troodon is really going to do much in that scenario

troodon can be bullied by everything, which is fine

since it will have the advantage once night falls

[honest sparrow]

Dilos at night

[paper oriole]

surprised that zebra vid in the suggestion is still up lol

[candid schooner]

let's goo na servers back up

[languid niche]

has anyone had problems with not being able to get off gamepad controls? \

and just to clarify no i do not have one plugged in. only current devices are mouse and keyboard

[manic flint]

Well I believe all the fossils excluding the 2 types of teeth (the Arctic species and the smaller southern species) were renamed. Technically those teeth still belong to the possibility omnivourus Troodon, and they are all related under the Troodontid group

I think anyway it's pretty confusing

[limber hull]

i think we should ignore science when talking about Isle Troodon

it's essentially a free space for gameplay creativity

[manic flint]

Isle Troodon is based on the small Troodon
So technically it exists but only as a tooth

It's just another Jurassic Park copy

I don't mind tho
It is just barely real enough to pass as a dino

[limber hull]

yea

honestly it takes mechanics that'd be really hard to put on dinos we know lots about and runs with it

[elder gale]

Grabbing with deino is awesome!!!!! It works great when it don't freeze your game(probably because of full server? might be too much to calculate?)

Also we need a Queue list ASAP.

[paper oriole]

Troodontidae is a family, as of right now there isnt an actual troodon

There are troodontids like stenonychosaurus and latenivenatrix

Our troodon is stenon sized which i think jp troodon is also based on

[ashen elm]

I mean, there is a venom-based animal that is similar to Utah size (bigger actually) and that's Dilo, so even more reason not to do it.

[limber hull]

Exactly

And I think megalania is a size above that lmao, and that's also venom-based

so unless we're making mid size+ venom dino and feel like making troodon comically large, i dont think we need to upscale troodon

[rare fractal]

#coastalmegalania

[manic sun]

@visual patrol Megalanias also have a venomous bacteria in their mouth which consumes flesh and also makes it rot. So they bite u once, the venom starts kicking in, you get paralyzed and the megalania finds and eats u alive

They have to add eating-alive as a mechanic lol

[rare fractal]

The bacteria isn't venomous, they're saliva contains the venom as it's chewed out of their jaw, the bacteria is dissimilar to this process

[manic sun]

ahh ok

[limber hull]

@maiden anvil isn't deinocherius gonna be that?

[rare fractal]

Yep

Cherry is the planned omnivore of the apexes

[limber hull]

its fuckin' huge

[rare fractal]

Plus theri is specifically designed not to eat meat, it's so physiologically separated from your standard carnivorous theropod

Cherry literally was an omni

And it's planned to be one in game as well so....

[limber hull]

Deinocherius is like, 7+ tons

[rare fractal]

seems kinda redundant

[silver zephyr]

Personally I can't see theri living off of eggs and bugs

[rare fractal]

Well actually it's around 6.3

[limber hull]

in the Isle size charge, it's 7.4 tons

[rare fractal]

Oh damn they added a whole ass ton to the fucker

Okie :/

[limber hull]

yea idk

i think the extra ton is nice tho, makes it a super foreboding apex to represent the omnis

[ebon girder]

@barren zephyr why

[livid frost]

hi! I am banned on The Isle and I wonder if I ever can play that again?

[tepid gate]

Deinocheirus weighs over 7t currently, those are the estimates for the largest specimen.

As for that whole discussion about Troodon - Latenivenatrix is only the size of The Isle's Herrerasaurus, it's actually nowhere close to Utah.

Iirc the estimates for her are around ~170-180kg.

[manic sun]

go to #isle-discussion or ask a moderator/admin but I don´t really know if they are the people who can help u with that

[daring remnant]

ok since people hate my idea I wanna hear ways for improving nesting without it being 100% unnatural

[urban flax]

You lost me at the "mating minigame" part

[daring remnant]

tell me your way of improving nesting then

[urban flax]

The same thing
Without a minigame

Also 3 call for refusing is fine

[daring remnant]

yesterday I'll repost it but less complicated

[urban flax]

Also the nest should come before mating
Mating is only for getting the eggs in there

[barren zephyr]

what?

[ebon girder]

Why do you believe that deinos group limit should be upped to 4 or 5

[barren zephyr]

@ebon girder because the deinos need more in there group like not 2, because if u have a herd and theres little one it would be good to know where they are and 2 is not enough

[ebon girder]

i dont think that being in a mob as deino should be supported at all

[compact hare]

Its one of the most powerful creature in the game rn

[ebon girder]

Tbh im not even against a feature supporting cannibalism even more for deinos

[barren zephyr]

yes well they are already large groups of 5 but it would be nice to be in an actual group

[ebon girder]

No because groups larger than 5 shouldnt even exist

So it shouldnt be supported

[barren zephyr]

well then just over 2, 2 is not enough

like 3

[ebon girder]

2 is enough

[barren zephyr]

3 is in between

[ebon girder]

2 is totally enough, if you're nesting you could get an increased group limit for your hatchlings tho

[barren zephyr]

but ur hatchlings will become adults sooo...

[tepid gate]

Yea nah, the group limits for Deinos should be 2, the group limit for Stegos should be decrased down to two.

When that happens they get booted from the group

It's as simple as that

[ebon girder]

Yeah then the hatchlings have to leave, or you eat them

[barren zephyr]

woooow

[ebon girder]

what?

[barren zephyr]

nah how about like irl they just auto leave

[ebon girder]

?

[barren zephyr]

irl they leave there fam

[tepid gate]

Yea - they get autokicked from the group upon reaching a certain age

[ebon girder]

yeah auto leave is what i meant

[tepid gate]

^

[ebon girder]

^^

[barren zephyr]

well u should of said that

[ebon girder]

Doesnt really make a difference, since you want the hatchlings to be able to stay by their parents even when grown up?

[barren zephyr]

okay soo whos gonna go on general feed back and tell them the hatchling thingy

whos came up with the idea

[tepid gate]

It's been mentioned over and over again

by the different community members

[ebon girder]

it has already been suggested multiple times

[tepid gate]

and besides - there's no nesting yet

[barren zephyr]

well i havent seen em

[hoary dawn]

it is planned that younger dinos will be able to be in a group with adults, and then once they reach a certain age they will automatically be removed from the group. to my understanding

[barren zephyr]

oh good

[barren zephyr]

guys, is coconut working

[signal beacon]

Maybe

[paper oriole]

coconot

[shadow vine]

is this game ever going to update lol

[barren zephyr]

@tidal frigate yo is that penns cave?

Ah nvm- not enough water to be it

[languid niche]

this game is completely broken for me

cant rest no matter what I use as keybind. sprint does no work at all. controls key reverting to gamepad. even when i have nothing but my mouse and keyboard plugged in.

no idea whats wrong but its completely ruining a game I have looked forward to playing after 3 months off shore fishing

anyone have any recommendations to fix this. have already tried completely removing all game files from my comp and re-installing. have tried plugging in a gamebad and even that doesn't work. stays as some freak hybrid between keyboard and gamepad

[limber hull]

i disagree with the stego sentiment. Stegos are literally a herding creature, deinos are far more solitary

[tepid gate]

There's 0 reason why an animal as large and powerful as Stego should be in large groups

I also don't think that Stegos are herding creatures

or should be for that matter

[barren zephyr]

Small herds? Sure

[limber hull]

i think the primary issue is pretty simple. Stegos were added too early

[barren zephyr]

But large herds make them invulnerable
You could circumvent that issue with food costs and diets though

[limber hull]

5 stego herds are a decent amount imo

[last lily]

^I gotta agree.. Stego is fine being a herding animal, especially later on.. It's also cool to see a bunch of them migrating.. It just all comes back to who was the giant forehead that thought it'd be a good idea to add Stego so early.. or Deino and Carno for that matter.

[limber hull]

honestly, the issue i have is that literally the only thing in the game that has any form of design around fighting a stego is a utah, and we all know the state of that thing

[barren zephyr]

Evrima Utah is cursed

[cyan flame]

No, no they're not. A, they're apex herbis, and we don't want packs/herds of those, not for trike, not for shant, or anky or stego. Any more than we want them for rex, giga, spino, deino, or possibly even acro and cheirus. B, stego, with proper attacks, and even with current for that matter, are not communal, and not good with defense of each other or even juvies, and as such, they are not inclined to group up, since there's less benefit compared to say trikes or similar. And C, they're large and powerful enough that they would require a lot to sustain them, and as such, competition with their own should be an ever present danger, just like with all the other apex critters. Seeing another adult of your kind as such a big and demanding animal should be much more of a "No thanks", with nesting with one other adult being the main exception.

[paper oriole]

Apex predator packs are more problematic than a herd of trikes

[tepid gate]

And neither should be a thing

[cyan flame]

I'm not sure I agree with that. Please explain why you think so?

[tepid gate]

Apexes should be for the most part solitary, pairs are fine-ish but there's no reason to allow for 5 Stegos to move around together.

[paper oriole]

Not a great comparison. Apex predators are actually designed to track things down and attack, not defend. Apex predators should be solitary or paired, apex herbis should be fine in trios. Carnivores are the more popular faction and usually outnumber herbis in group fights

Predators are always more harmful in mix and mega packs because of how offensively designed they are, designed to find and chase and track and attack

[limber hull]

frankly, i think stego is going to get fucking thrashed by any apex that isn't a deino, god forbid it goes against a rex. Its health pales in comparison to other apexes, its moves are slow and clunky, so on. If there were any apex that had a more team focus imo, it'd be stego. I still believe stego should be permitted to have larger groups, a 2 stego group seems underwhelming imo

[cyan flame]

It's more so the sheer power they wield in the group, no matter if they chase down things or just stand in place and claim an area and so on.

[paper oriole]

Stegos would benefit being in pairs or trios against apex carnis

[cyan flame]

Well, that's an issue with how it works currently + stats. Can obviously be balanced :p

But you can't argue a stego is more team focused than a ceratopsid

Simply because of how they work, their attacks and their possibilies of working together "safely"

[paper oriole]

Large defensive herbivores benefit each other in combat because they are usually a one-ended weapon

Unlike brawlers like tenonto

Herbivores in general should have higher group brackets than carnivorous counterparts with few exceptions

[tepid gate]

Trios are fine-ish. 5 Stegos in one group is s laughable idea though.

[cyan flame]

I don't know honestly. I can agree cause of "carni overpop" but still.. it just feels a little off to me

But I guess if trikes can come in trios as well, that should be interesting

@paper orioleYou don't think you'll risk "herbi op" if you let trikes come in trios, but rexes in duos. You know there'll be complains that they can't hunt a herd right?

[paper oriole]

Who cares if there's complaints there will always be complaints every time somebody runs in to an obstacle on their favourite carni

[cyan flame]

I know, just saying

[paper oriole]

Its probably why they ended up nerfing tenonto's tail to a wet noodle slap

[cyan flame]

People do take issue with how to approach herds so :p

But yeah, while you might have a point that carni packs are slightly worse than herbi herds, I still don't think the large critters should come in mroe than pairs or at most a trio

[paper oriole]

Complaining carnis, they will always complain that they dont get to be faster AND stronger than their herbi counterparts

Even in legacy with the disgusting massive mix herds carnis manage to make kills

[cyan flame]

It just seems off to me, and stego is at that not a communal dino unlike shant or trike

Trike shieldwall = rather known concept

[paper oriole]

Stego is weird af because it will need buffs to even survive once large predators are in so who knows how much will make sense for a group limit

[cyan flame]

Well, group to survive has it's own issues after all

[paper oriole]

Even a psuedo apex would laugh at stego with its current stats. Its strong now but without adjustments in the future itll be dogwater

[cyan flame]

I'm just thinking if the playable is designed or not

To work together

[paper oriole]

Yeah it shouldn’t need to group to survive

[cyan flame]

But yeah, I trust you get my issues with stego grouping. It's less about the power level and more so compared to other playables

[paper oriole]

Grouping is always just a bonus or to survive against other groups

And its easier to find other carnis than herbis 90% of the time

[cyan flame]

You could make stego on the level of a diablo and I'd still say diablo should have the herd, as opposed to the stego

Simply because design of the critter works that way

[paper oriole]

Stego shouldn’t have lower group limits than other psuedo apexes if anything

It is less easy to group defense as a stego than as a ceratopsian but it is still going to be valuable security when carnos arent the strongest predator making megapacks all over the island

[barren zephyr]

Stego jab needs a massive dmg buff

And stun on headshots

With a buff to bleed

That's the only way it can manage against an apex

[cyan flame]

I wish stego got a rework rather than just stat fixes, though there's room for buffing health and all

Also the head multiplier needs to go :p

[barren zephyr]

It could get additional attacks yeah

But it's attacks need to be devastating to ward off the much bigger predators it can't escape

[cyan flame]

But that's for the future. I wish they'd take out stego for now, it's a problem child like utah just in a different way.

But a rework on attack, and I'd like a rework on movement, might help

And since we got 8T stego, there's some room to make it a little less squishy, so it can have a slightly better chance to deter a rex attacking it

Preferably if deterrents worked.. though that's an issue all of it's own :p

@barren zephyrHow do you work in deterrents when people refuse to back down unless they die? :p

[barren zephyr]

What do you mean by that?

[cyan flame]

Well, my experience is that people rarely back down in a fight. There seems to be few reasons to give up, be it by running out of stam, or on too low health, or bleed or anything really.

Granted, that might change when/if we get a reason to remain alive longer

But it seems like people would rather do or die, than live to fight another day

Why I don't think bleed works for defense very well

[barren zephyr]

Not exactly a deterrent, but it's plates could use a function in this game
Like if a bigger predator chomps down on them, there could be a noticeable reduction in damage

Evening out the score within the matchup

The Stego jab gets a headshot, you get stunned and with bleed

[cyan flame]

I guess what I mean is that people only temporarily retreat in a fight most often, to recover quickly. They don't seem to "give up and go away", so I find deterrents to be rather useless.

[barren zephyr]

This would rule out facetanking

[cyan flame]

And this is not just for a stego matchup, I'm talking in general

[barren zephyr]

What would you think is a good deterrent?

I think poison Magy would be considered a deterrent from drawn out brawls

Honestly deterrents would be hard to implement

[cyan flame]

I don't know, I've yet to figure out a good solution :p

[barren zephyr]

Pachy has a clear deterrent which is it's fractures
Yet people take the risks nonetheless

[cyan flame]

I just know that it's rare, at least in my experience, that people call it off due to losses/wounds and go away to find something else

But maybe it's more so an issue with no reason to remain alive

Well, right now we don't have fractures in different levels

But if we did, and let's say carno took one hit, and now was slightly less mobile

Would that encourage the carno to try and escape you think?

[barren zephyr]

I think it's good if predators can be effectively negated through mechanical means
Good players won't have everyone die just to make a kill

[cyan flame]

Instead of staying to keep fighting

[barren zephyr]

I don't think it'd discourage the Carno

The average player would continue fighting, until he wins or dies

For an Apex's case though

It's overwhelming stats and size is a deterrent itself to most of the roster

And there was that idea for a septic bite as well, if you mess with this creature with a rotting bloody mouth, you'd induce long term sickness and stam nerfs

Meaning players would avoid it upon observation

Say an Allo comes across a Cera with the bite
Sure it'd be fun to kill it, but would the player really do that and suffer a really long penalty affecting his stam/diet/regen?

[paper oriole]

Skunk magy
Skunk magy

[barren zephyr]

Not a bad idea tbg

tbh

[paper oriole]

I unironically support skunk magy

[barren zephyr]

fuck paleo nerds
we have kaiju spino and venom troodon

[cyan flame]

And that's the issue. It's not just an apex issue, it's me talking generally about mechanics and methods that encourages people to "call it off", be it a hunt, or a defender choosing to try and retreat. And so on.

And I mean things during combat, not "Oh this thing can oneshot me, I'll just not"

[paper oriole]

We have fake raptor and fake troodontid and land spino and swimming beipiaosaurus we can have skunk magy

[barren zephyr]

I think it's fine to try and push that sort of behavior through certain effects or matchups

But artificially creating mechanics for that is probably a bad idea in practice
Just like herbi corpse debuff

[paper oriole]

Corpse debuffs in many cases are abuseable too

[barren zephyr]

paleo nerds seethe at any fictionalized herbi's but turn a blind eye to the carni's blatantly sitting over there

[paper oriole]

Corpse debuffs and presence debuffs can be used to grief or just be made useless

[paper oriole]

I seldom see complaints about tenonto's fictional liberties at least

[barren zephyr]

People actually get really upset when you propose ideas and say that Magy should be designed viable and should not be Allo fodder

[paper oriole]

But it really does seem like carnis keep getting fictionalized to benefit their functionality while herbis stay grounded with exceptions which seems unfair

[barren zephyr]

Yeah

Poisonous Kentro sounds fucking cool

[paper oriole]

We have utahraptor and spino who arent even Utahraptor or spino anymore

[barren zephyr]

Why don't we get that

[paper oriole]

Tenonto is an example of a great modified herbi. Well, outside of QA where its trash at least but its combat style and buffed up tail are

[barren zephyr]

Good fictionalization

Nearly the perfect herbivore

[paper oriole]

Then there's anky who looks nerfed

Scrawny

[barren zephyr]

Feeble even

Goddamn sitting here with kaiju spino, but it'd kill them if they made a brutish large tank Anky

[paper oriole]

They toon away anky's mass that made it pretty much unmunchable to big predators

Spino looks like it could just kick anky over lol

[barren zephyr]

Anky looks like a 50/50 with an Acro

[paper oriole]

It got turned on to a generic movie monster and anky got nerfed in every department appearance-wise

Man acro stole anky's mass

[barren zephyr]

That's where all the fat went

[paper oriole]

Acro took a straw and just sucked all the fat outta anky

Deflated him like a balloon

[barren zephyr]

I wasn't sure of what to place the whole carni vs herbi debate
but qa proved there's a reeking amount of carnivore bias

Not even that, apex bias

[paper oriole]

Carni bias has been evident for a while

[barren zephyr]

Since Utah became a twig that snaps

[paper oriole]

Sometimes a cool ass herbi shows up but it gets doused like teno in qa

Utah has been broken from the start its like they just cant figure it out lol

Utah can have one problem and instead if fixing that one problem theyll make 5 more

[barren zephyr]

They had good progress during update 3 but threw away all of it

[paper oriole]

Yeah in update 3 wasnt utahs only real problem the inertia or was that 3.75

They just added more problems to utah

[barren zephyr]

I don't want a broken, overpowered or negligible pounce
Update 3 had the most progress

And good God

The Carno updates

[paper oriole]

They added problems to everybody basically except ptera who is spectator mode and carno who is the star child rn

[barren zephyr]

The buffs were simply ridiculous

The amount it could do

It was like an amateur or 13 year old designed it

[paper oriole]

Tenonto's tail slam is wet noodle and utahraptors got rolled in oil so they cant get a pounce on 70% of the time

Tenonto cant punish carno anymore and carno can slaughter a pack of utahs 1v8

[barren zephyr]

It's still hard to believe to me that it even passed testing

I still want to know what was going through the designer's minds

[paper oriole]

And the devs seek dead silent on it too

[barren zephyr]

Yeah

[paper oriole]

Like they could at least tell us they plan to fix this atrocious mess theyve handed out

Ensure us that it wont go live

[barren zephyr]

Like "oh sorry accidently fucked up these values teehee, it's not gonna stay that way lol" would help

[paper oriole]

Like “woopsie doopsie we accidentally turned carno in to rex on roller skates and nerfed everybody we'll get right on that”

[barren zephyr]

Even Ubisoft for Siege's updates actually came out and apologized for releasing game breaking operators

And vowed to never let that happen again

[paper oriole]

Like i get that it's QA but where is the communication so we know what is being fixed and what was intentional

[barren zephyr]

It's been smooth sailing for balance ever since

Yeah

Isn't the point of QA is to address feedback and communicate to figure out design flaws?

Unless they're spectating it all(which we don't know)

[barren zephyr]

QA's point is to identify issues with diets and then implement a more completed version of it for Update 4's release

[paper oriole]

Sometimes i feel like they release such blatantly terrible balance decisions just to watch us squirm

Some things are just too stupid to be stupid

[barren zephyr]

They're gonna get pretty poor results if they don't consistently tweak, experiment, and communicate
They're missing half of the point of QA
Which is taking feedback and seeing how it pans out in practice

[paper oriole]

If the point was diets then why make balance changes to begin with

[barren zephyr]

Cheetah Rex is one of them

[barren zephyr]

because diets mixes in with balance.
alongside, it's a QA build

[paper oriole]

If rocket rex and wet pasta tenonto go live we are doomed

[barren zephyr]

Yeah, it's not just strictly a diets mechanic update if the changes to balance are so large

[paper oriole]

Then complaining about balance in qa is relevant

[barren zephyr]

never said it wasn't

And if they're experimenting with a Cheetah Rex
Then they should just say so

Because people do not want these changes to come to a live build

if only PR was as easy as that

It's not that hard to do that on discord

[cyan flame]

We just need a balance team

[barren zephyr]

It's a copout

[barren zephyr]

and we have gotten tones of information from Punch, good job

[paper oriole]

They could at least drop us a “woops” ya know

[barren zephyr]

QA still counts as the balance team

[cyan flame]

And they need to focus on one change at a time. Both buffing stego and nerfing utah was not neccesarily needed. And so on with teno, and carno and everyone else.

[barren zephyr]

"woops" is a lacklustre statement that we don't need to know

[barren zephyr]

Information that doesn't address the enormous amount of unanimous feedback from everyone

[cyan flame]

I know QA does balance. I still believe that's a bad idea and that we need a proper balance team who's job it specifically is to balance things.

[barren zephyr]

Just look at the mechanics test feedback

[cyan flame]

QA should focus on making the game work, balance should focus on making the results what the devs want. Two different jobs and should have two different teams.

[barren zephyr]

Our Update #4 Diet Mechanic Test is now live. We're eagerly anticipating your feedback so that we can sculpt these systems into fun and rewarding gameplay loops. Please be aware that during the Diet Mechanic Test you are likely to encounter bugs, missing or not yet fully functional features, performance issues and limited server availability. If you're looking for a more optimal play experience we recommend that you wait for the full release of Update #4. We'd also like to make it abundantly clear that this is a Mechanic Test and not a Stress Test. The purpose of a Mechanic Test going forward is to evaluate the functionality of new mechanics in a populated but more focused testing environment where feedback is far easier to collect and utilize.

And scroll
All the same concerns feedback, and community agreement

[barren zephyr]

we have a small amount of QA members, it'd be harder to find people who can help with balance

[cyan flame]

You'd only need a third of the amount of QA. And they could have more QA for that matter.

[barren zephyr]

Yeah, and we're sure as hell communicating
And having diets and fracture tied to balance and making balance changes is pretty much a stress test

If it was solely a true mechanics test, alot of changes would not have been present

[barren zephyr]

do note*
QA build is not the official Update 4 build- it's a preview build made mainly to test diets and how they balance around the community.
You have an issue with PR management, message Punch.

[barren zephyr]

funny thing how a good portion of those in the QA team actually know how to balance

[cyan flame]

Well, their communication and PR isn't really good, it's rather lacking

[barren zephyr]

doesn't mean
QA team/balance team = perfect balance

[cyan flame]

Except I sincerely disagree with that. They do not know how to balance properly. And even if they did, I do not think they have the time and all that to do so.

[barren zephyr]

please join TF2 community.
We are literally getting information daily from PR for The Isle

we are almost spoilt in terms of information

[cyan flame]

You have very low standards then, both for communication and balance. Which is fine, but I do not agree at all and find it very lacking on both counts.

[barren zephyr]

funny thing, something may seem good on paper- but when you give something to the general balance, expect it to be terrible

[barren zephyr]

How? We get near daily notifications

[barren zephyr]

Sure, will do
But the changes imply testing for possible implications to come in the live build
Just like the implementation and feedback for diets and fractures could also come to the live
build, and with the community overwhelmingly in agreement, making picture clear feedback. There's no feedback in response

[cyan flame]

If you think we're spoilt with information, I.. don't know what to say. I find the information on how mechanics work lacking, among other things.

[cyan flame]

And that's why you have a proper balance team.

You just proved my point.. :p

[barren zephyr]

yes, QA team

hence why it's called "Quality Assurance"

[cyan flame]

Yes but Quality is not balance

And like I said, I do not think our QA team does a very good job, for one reason or another

[barren zephyr]

Quality is an umbrella term, no?

[cyan flame]

There's also other issues with balance beyond just "doing a good job" for that matter

[barren zephyr]

Balance teams exist now in game development
Don't know why that's so hard to get

[cyan flame]

Just like there are other issues with "PR" beyond "talking to us"

[barren zephyr]

And a balance team would certainly benefit the development and progress of the game

There's little loss to having one

[barren zephyr]

hence why it's not an official build (not a hotfix build for the Evrima branch)

[cyan flame]

It would, at least it's my belief it really would. I'm sure QA does their best, but it's just not working out well, or so it seems so far at least. And then there's the lack of info on what the goals are and so on. Which doesn't help with balance and feedback at all.

[barren zephyr]

But it's a build designed for feedback, and in the name "QA branch"
Which players will address changes and mechanics regardless of naming terms
If they didn't want balance to be an integral part of the feedback process, they're shouldn't be any balance changes other than what diets and fractures specifically apply too

And again, if they're experimenting, they should just say so in a two line sentence so people know those changes won't come to the live and people will loosen on addressing the concerns for it. Which provides more room for other feedback

[barren zephyr]

and but there are still balance changes.
And this happens almost every update/change/hotfix.
Like I said, preview branch- QA does not determine automatically everything we'll get in the official update.

[cyan flame]

And then the .. questionable habit of not putting out info on what they change.. :p

[barren zephyr]

alongside, examples of Punch notifying the community may only truly exist in #isle-discussion. Hence why search up Punch's name and search for keywords

if you feel like information like that should be implemented into #announcements and/or #830660455487373352 do ask Punch if you want.
You are always free to

[barren zephyr]

We're back in a circle again, it doesn't determine what gets in the official update. But if they didn't want balance to be an integral part of the whole branch feedback. They simply shouldn't have touched balance to focus solely on how diets/fractures will function as added variables. With the exception being who these creatures apply too

[cyan flame]

I could, but I don't feel like I should have when it should be obvious :p

Like I said, maybe your standards are different from mine

[barren zephyr]

so? This is game development we're talking about, things change and stuff gets pushed around.
Devs have the ability to change balance because they may or may not've liked balance in the last update .
Eg. Utahs being able to near 1v1 everything to being more pack hunter based

[cyan flame]

And if they didn't like that, that would be the balance teams job to figure out and deal with

Preferably after the devs have settled on a balance in the first place

[barren zephyr]

we get PR.
We get words from Filipe, Kissen, Visual, and even Tapwing.
We are SOO lucky to get information from people who aren't suppose to- especially with NDA

[cyan flame]

But then, unclear vision is part of the Isle, or so it seems :p

[barren zephyr]

when in reality, we should just be getting Punch

[celest basin]

@barren zephyr good idea

[barren zephyr]

^

thanks

gib upvote though

[cyan flame]

Like I said. I don't think quotes here and there is proper PR/Information. That's not how it should work according to me. And yes, some of them do talk, sometimes too much, which is an issue all of it's own and also shouldn't happen. As we've seen a few times around :p

[barren zephyr]

lol

[barren zephyr]

Lmao, that wasn't happening, and if it was, that was the fault of things like Stegos design, or Carno's just standing around
If they aren't happy about certain changes, they should simply say so or communicate it rather than shadow patches that the community will discover and dissect as criticism

[celest basin]

very well

It is done

[barren zephyr]

like I said.
Welcome to Game Development 🙂

[celest basin]

The troodon in Amaroks stream isthe same size as in the size charts right?

[cyan flame]

Not sure that's a valid argument. After all, game development can be done in different ways I'm sure :p

[barren zephyr]

Yes, it's game development
Doesn't make it good
But it gives ground to discuss and criticize

[cyan flame]

And me and Nacen seem to disagree with how they're handling some stuff

Which I think is fair enough, I sincerely doubt they've found the one true path of how to develop and handle a game :p

[barren zephyr]

well sadly if you want everything the devs to be discussed on a QA build, you aren't in the right area I guess.
C'est la vie, no point spitting information on the floor when this directed for developer eyes

[celest basin]

Add every feature in the game at one time after 10 years

[barren zephyr]

sure, let's do an original Evrima launch for the game!

[barren zephyr]

Not everything, just the bare minimum and addressing feedback with short sentences
Also not having things in "shadow changes"
Especially when the feedback in largely in unison right now

I will continue to discuss and criticize, iron out some ideas. Change a few minds

[barren zephyr]

luckily enough the devs do say they read the #885026244444442655.
It's either they don't- You're waisting you time, especially seeing as this isn't even the right channel.
or If they do, then feedback given is poor

Also, not random questions of shit that doesn't matter that's a long time from now
Like questions in the isle discussion of things that aren't relevant to the actual unified feedback right now
And if it's poor, well sorry you feel that way

[celest basin]

@burnt grail As much as I like a large troodon, the troodon shown is around the same size as in the charts and concepts. I think they are going for a smaller venomous pack hunter that is weak alone and can be extremely powerful in groups. If they make it human sized, it would just become another utah. We were also unable to see the true size of troodon because he was moving around a lot and the tall grass was covering it most of the time. Also, troodon is in very early development, and its size could change later

[barren zephyr]

you are angry that we aren't getting 24/7 relevant answers?
Shame, when Punch is on next why don't you ask him?

Not angry
Haven't said I was
Nor do I state we need 24/7 relevant answers
That's a strawman

And I'll do so at my convenience

[barren zephyr]

https://tenor.com/view/ultron-this-is-exactly-what-i-wanted-marvel-avengers-age-of-ultron-gif-13290205

Sure sure

Yes, and if you want- override Hypno of his QA lead.
Become your true inner balance maniac and give the people what they want- words about feedback

[cyan flame]

Is that a challenge? :p

[barren zephyr]

Nah, that's not it
Just want them to understand that a large amount of the community is very displeased about his balance decisions, and hoping that he's addresses it
I'm simply voicing concerns

[barren zephyr]

yes

[barren zephyr]

like I said.
You want proper feedback? Message Punch with this dying need

I don't believe Punch really wants to scroll through this channel

I wouldn't say dying need, just have some free time eating supper
And I believe I'm in the proper channel in the server for discussion

You know, general feedback discussion

[barren zephyr]

yeah, this is a discussion with members.
Not true developers

[barren zephyr]

congratulations!

[barren zephyr]

Yeah... Which is the point of dissecting these concerns about processes this whole time..

[barren zephyr]

Very interesting, this channel is
However, building a crowd for concern is understandable here.
But #general-feedback is the true burger for excitement.
I understand- yes, that people have. But there's a large handful of feedback posts that is voiced every day (I, myself, have participated in this simple act).

But, your concern seems to be an issue directed with PR itself- Punch.

and, fun fact, I'm not Punch! Nor is anyone else here besides himself, I know Punch would certainly love to have a proper discussion about his reasons to what he does. I cannot simply nor accurately do it for him [without speculation and others, of course], nor can others without his proper word

[cyan flame]

Very well!

[barren zephyr]

General is a loose term
And having feedback voiced for others and possibly devs to see and iron out ideas is something to be encouraged
Especially criticism, and my issues do relate to punch as feedback is given through streamlined irrelevant information that is possibly and more likely far from being close to implemented when that process could've been directed to current relevant information in the mechanics test feedback
We do get feedback, but not the feedback of what matters currently. Especially when there's a direct avenue designed for testing, experimenting, and player feedback on actual in current testing features

The bare minimum is throwing out a testing branch for a period, post something relevant and that addresses changes based on feedback
Summarize design decisions. Novels of paragraphs releasing every patch about it is unnecessary as well. Doesn't have to be that deep.

[crimson phoenix]

@celest basin im fine with getting canyons again as long as its not like the freaking V3 canyons

[celest basin]

yea

[hoary dawn]

the v3 canyons were cool

[daring remnant]

but a pain to cross

[stable mica]

Great scenery yeah but they’re needs to be more crossing within canyons like that to not make them feel like a giant fuck you go around to the player

Maybe it could be like a interactive environment sorta deal where’s there’s a path that always is in a canyon but has a chance to break depending on the weight of everyone on it and respawns after like 2 hrs or so?

[limber hull]

on one hand, that's kinda funny

on the other, losing a pile of dinos to a log bridge

[stable mica]

Thats the funny part

[limber hull]

there's gonna be like one rex

that steps on it with a ton of people on it

and everyone dies

[stable mica]

Okay but maybe not for canyons but maybe for logs over rivers or something

Like uh a old log that stuff 2 ceratos can barely get over

But if a Rex steps on it it collapses and not only dunks the Rex in the river lake etc but let’s the smaller critters get away if they’re being chased

And for players that don’t know if they weigh to much for the log can either not go on or risk it and find out the hard way

[lavish quail]

@hollow trail They actually have something a little like that where you lose small amounts of "call energy" (not sure of its actual name) which after reaching 0 stops you from calling

[hollow trail]

really ??? okok (y)

[paper oriole]

It feels like even the phase two request channel is ignored tbh lol

[stable mica]

I feel like everything gets ignored

[glass swan]

every channel besides mechanic test

[hybrid matrix]

A very long time ago (might not still be relevant) punch said he looks in the channels sometimes

They should get another PR guy tho

Then punch can handle announcements and shit and the other guy can read the feedback

[barren zephyr]

It's absurd man, it's been this way for way too long

Literally look at anky. They got so much shit about it and still have not even bothered replying to it

They ask for feedback but then don't do anything with said feedback 🦍

[strange wave]

they have tho... just people love to ignore that

[lavish quail]

@random imp lmao thats comedic gold

eyes go brrr scrttt

[honest sparrow]

There are definitely times where they’ve taken mass feedback or pinned suggestions they enjoyed, it’s just the lack of acknowledgment. If the devs take all feedback into account then make it seem like it, rather than occasionally listening to mass outcry.

[worn pumice]

the issue is they could be watching every single piece of feedback but the transparency and communication is non-existent and we would never know

[honest sparrow]

It’s kinda like having a customer service system at a company that takes calls, but doesn’t respond or acknowledge any complaints, and occasionally fixes large complaints

[worn pumice]

its like trying to order something over the phone but the other person doesnt say a word

[paper oriole]

that acro just looks like allo 2.0

acro's issues is less about its fatness and more about its proportions

[stable mica]

I Like the new acro I think it’s fine Bc they might be getting rid of its speed in place of tankyness

[paper oriole]

i doubt itll be tanky enough against apexes without looking strange

[honest sparrow]

That’s because in that game it is allo

[hybrid matrix]

you just described most mobile game devs

[honest sparrow]

Holy fuck the isle mobile game

[hybrid matrix]

oh god thats a real thing

[lapis tree]

@keen wraith don’t ask here, ask in the discussion channel

[limber hull]

@hazy coral the issue isnt the grabbable weights, the issue is the deino's weight itself

deino can only grab things half its weight or lower

however, deino gains weight REAL fast now

[lavish quail]

5% 1 tonn

[barren zephyr]

@bitter timber I mean, nothing against your statement.
I do wish Punch (or someone from the team) could answer some feedback here, however, Punch is almost always active in islecord (especially on weekdays)
you can check by using discord's search system

I believe someone on the team said they do read feedback?
But, I guess it's not easy to reply to everyone. Not sure.

[bitter timber]

not reply to everyone

but atleast some kind of way that they show interest of some feedback they'd like to add to the game or fix or whatever

now u post a feedback

and hope for the best

[random imp]

yhea, the complete radio silence is so annoying

it's sad but i am slowly losing hope and i was one of the most faithful fan of this game, this devs seem like they keep making the same mistakes, adding tons of stuff before even the servers are stable.

[crisp topaz]

I felt like part of the reason for the QA is for the devs to communicate issues, have players find them, and then resolve them? It feels like QA has been out for almost 2 months, and they've barely made any of the changes that people are essentially BEGGING for. The only thing they've said is that "they're working on tweaks to the scent system, because finding tracks you didn't sniff for feels unfair". And tbat they're working on back end server stuff since they're transferring their servers (probably why they're down so frequently) but still. We go weeks without any sort of update and it feels like it defeats the purpose of QA.

[lavish quail]

Isn’t it funny how these channels exist

[limber hull]

@rare fractal personally i'd also give it to deino, but first they gotta fix that godawful weight scaling

[rare fractal]

I don't necessarily see it as impactful to deinos gameplay outside of removing the necessity of lunging

[limber hull]

when a fullsized 8 ton gator chomps down on something, it should be a fucking bone-breaking snap, let's be real

[rare fractal]

Because you can essentially immobilize your prey with a standard bite instead of having to lunge ambush

[limber hull]

i see it as a tool to assist it in defending itself from larger, apex tier dinos

[rare fractal]

Which aren't currently in the game

[limber hull]

deino is more of a brawler as it grows

[rare fractal]

And won't be until evrima is finished

[limber hull]

it weakens in ambush power after 50%

however, its brawl power skyrockets

[rare fractal]

It still essentially removes all benefits it's lunge provides it

And that's how it's intended to hunt

[limber hull]

eh, i disagree. It would simply make it that the sizerange where it chooses to lunge rather than bite would change. If the animal were say, 3-4 tons, I'd feel more inclined to lunge, however, a < 1.5 ton or > 4 ton animal would be more advantageous to attack via biting

[rare fractal]

which is exactly why it doesn't need fractures now

Because the animals in the size range for lunging don't exist

And won't for some time

Simply makes them inescapable

[limber hull]

i'd be fine with this if they hadn't utterly butchered its ability to ambush with its speed nerf as adult

[rare fractal]

If you don't drink at one of the locations in which deino is irrelevant

[rare fractal]

Granted I have issues with deinos ability to ambush from the water anyway, it's a rather poorly designed ability that requires safe drinking spots to not be entirely unfair

[limber hull]

i mean, i hate the safe drinking spots too

just because of HOW safe they are

yes, it's good to have somewhere to drink and not fear being dragged into the depths

but seeing everyone teem around shallows makes me wish we got sucho instead of ptera

[rare fractal]

bary would have been better, sucho is simply too big

same with stego, should have been kentro

[limber hull]

well i want sucho simply on the basis that it'd be something to scare deino as it grew

also the fact that it was actually on the roadmap at one point

[rare fractal]

Bary could accomplish this task

[limber hull]

sucho could also do it for longer

since he a big boy

[rare fractal]

Although sucho brings other issues being it's size

[limber hull]

also being slower it won't fuck with the environment

[rare fractal]

I'm not saying sucho is a bad choice just that bary completes the same task but it's also smaller and matches the size average of the roster

[limber hull]

true but then deino lives its life of luxury for far too long

[rare fractal]

One of the other reasons deino was a bad idea

It requires more dinos of large size to balance out well

Further causing imbalance in the ecosystem

[rare fractal]

@stable mica Why would we want even more animals with fracture, it intrinsically makes combat more simplistic and uninteresting

[lavish quail]

Fractures should be a thing that certain animals excel in

and use to survive

[stable mica]

I said a lot of animals shouldn’t get fractures?

I just listed a few that obviously should Bc they would probably need them

[rare fractal]

Oh nevermind

[stable mica]

And before anyone says it I didn’t list dieno Bc it doesn’t need fractures since it can already grab

[rare fractal]

There was a typo in your first version that made it seem like you wanted most dinos to have fracture

[stable mica]

Oh god no lmao

[rare fractal]

Omg dude look up through this very discussion channel

Like 10 or so lines, we were literally having this exact same discussion

That's actually hilarious

[stable mica]

Omg yeah

But dieno does not need fractures that animal is already busted enough

And it can easily already win fights with most animals just by grabbing them and drowning

[lavish quail]

5% deino is scarier than 100%

[stable mica]

Giving it fractures would give it the same problem as carno where a creature has TOO many abilities

[lavish quail]

factual

1 ton weight and it has about infinite stam from being a juvi

Add the speed to that

[rare fractal]

Indeed, although not that having more abilities is bad, but more abilities that make an animal infinitely versatile is aweful

[lavish quail]

and you should be in fear of being a pachy ever

[stable mica]

Yeah having a lot of abilities is fine

But when you’re main ability is already one of the best ones in the game

You certainly don’t need fractures ontop of that lmao

[rare fractal]

Pachy's are unreasonably quite, they should have a loud chargeup sounds so they can't assassinate you in the plains or forests, cuz they quite literally one shot everything below apex tier if landed at a full charge

[stable mica]

I would understand pachy being so quiet if it was a jungle animal but it’s not it’s a fuckin plains animal and you’ll somehow get your legs cracked in from 1 pachy sitting a bush

[rare fractal]

I already kinda hate fractures since they only really compensate for the lack of a creatures viability if they lacked them

[lavish quail]

They are the fucking so loud

all the time every moment of every seconds

[rare fractal]

No, their chargeup makes no sound at all

[lavish quail]

All the do is screech as they pant pant pant

[rare fractal]

That's specifically what I'm referring to

[stable mica]

Pachy makes no noise with its ram

And it’s footsteps are near dead silent as well

[rare fractal]

Yeah if you don't see it coming you quite literally cannot prevent your own death

[lavish quail]

and when you want to hide in a bush from the onslught of carnos all you can do is hope thier all deaf

[rare fractal]

Getting fractured makes you all but incapable of self defense and you can't hunt for food or get water

[lavish quail]

plus your fault if you get rammed by a pachy

Its not like it does alot of damage

[rare fractal]

No, that's like saying it's your fault for getting hit with utahs instakill neck slitting attack that makes no sound as it's performed

[lavish quail]

Resting does exist

[rare fractal]

DUDE

Are you serious, it does around 350 damage at full charge

[lavish quail]

Im on QA Rn its not that bad if your not dumb

smh just fight back

[rare fractal]

You physically cannot fight back if you can't move

[barren zephyr]

Just move out of the way lmao

Then Pachy charge wont get you

[rare fractal]

obviously

[lavish quail]

Everything kills pachy

[barren zephyr]

Or run in a straight line
It's not gonna catch you that way

[rare fractal]

But I'm talking about how pachys are dead silent when charging

[rare fractal]

If you're playing teno you can't

[lavish quail]

Like Fr play anything and pachy is dog shit if you arent blind

[barren zephyr]

They're not too hard to spot

[lavish quail]

Loud as fuck its not like charge lasts forever

[barren zephyr]

Then it's something that needs to be adjusted, like Teno slams being immune to stun or take more hits to fracture

[rare fractal]

Yes exactly, but I don't understand why pachy doesn't make noise when charging

[lavish quail]

Just tail slap then

[rare fractal]

Charge takes hit priority

[barren zephyr]

Pachy is like the least problematic new inclusion we've gotten

[lavish quail]

knocks them down and you can insta kill them. Also Wtf are your pachys insane

[rare fractal]

ptera? dryo? hypsi?

[rare fractal]

Like I said, charge takes hit priority, if the charging pachy hits the tenos tail slam as the tail descends it will stun the teno

[barren zephyr]

Ptera does nothing
Dryo is based. but hardly anyone plays them
And hypsi is useless and meant to die as fodder with no growth

[rare fractal]

Aka not problematic

[lavish quail]

Smh just skill issue

dodge

[rare fractal]

Hit registration is irrelevant of skill, plus you can't dodge an attack that travels faster than you can

[barren zephyr]

Problematic as terrible inclusions, but for different reasons

[rare fractal]

Pachys can turn at their normal turn rate while charging

[rare fractal]

that's true

[lavish quail]

You can with your infinite turn radius

[paper oriole]

Tenonto sucks cheeks now if it doesnt get fracture it deserves every point of damage it had pre-nerf returned to its attacks

[rare fractal]

Are you kidding, I really hope you are, turn rate =/= speed

[rare fractal]

Well that's true regardless

[barren zephyr]

Yeah, revert Teno
make it immune to stuns from Pachy, maybe strengthen it against fractures since it's quadrupedal
boom fixed

[lavish quail]

smh just get friends what are they gonna do if there is 5 of you

[rare fractal]

Indeed, that would do wonders

[paper oriole]

Bruh

You want it to rely on groups to survive 1-2 carnos?

[lavish quail]

skill issue ngl

[paper oriole]

I know you are trolling you gotta be lol

[rare fractal]

how irrational can one person be

[lavish quail]

Nah im with the homies Rn and nothing is touching us

[rare fractal]

It's hit reg, that doesn't involve skill at all

[lavish quail]

Having a pachy teno herd is based

what are they gonna do attack us?

[rare fractal]

A lot of pachy players do, because they know the matchup heavily favors them

[paper oriole]

“I rely on a herd to not get merked by a single low iq carno, get good”

[rare fractal]

Tenos attacks don't land if a pachy is also hitting them, pachys are 2 kmh faster, pachys can stun lock

[lavish quail]

Lemme quote that so it works

[lavish quail]

I rely on a herd to not get merked by a single low iq carno, get good

Skill issue Ngl just get someone you know to grow a deino

[rare fractal]

And what are they gonna do out in the middle of a jungle or a field

[lavish quail]

Insta kill utahs and pachys

basically all they gotta do tbf

[rare fractal]

Also you've self admitted to tenos requiring deino bodygaurds in order to remain viable

like wow

[lavish quail]

everythings viable

[paper oriole]

Pretty much admitted to teno needing pachy bodyguards too

[lavish quail]

Saying something isnt viable cause its worse than something else is dumb

[paper oriole]

Teno is hot garbage in qa

[rare fractal]

everything in this game MUST be viable on it's own

[lavish quail]

I do admit tho teno do be Hot flaming garbage

[rare fractal]

That's how survival games work, you can't be required to have friends to play with

[lavish quail]

Based to bully people with tho

[lavish quail]

ew viable

[paper oriole]

It cant outrun carno, it cant hide from anybody with properly functioning eyes, and it cant punish carno

[rare fractal]

which it can't even do because it's damage is terrible and it's slower than everything else

[lavish quail]

Smh if you cant run or fight just hide

[lavish quail]

meanwhile teno infinite stun lock be like

[stable mica]

Tento needs a serious buff it they want to survive solo bc literally nobody plays it half the time

[rare fractal]

which it can't even do

[paper oriole]

What infinite stun lock? It has none

[stable mica]

you cant do that

[rare fractal]

Never has had an infinite stun lock

[lavish quail]

You can with friends

[stable mica]

No you cant

[paper oriole]

It stuns you for a couple slams and then you walk it off because the damage is trash now

[rare fractal]

no you can't

[lavish quail]

Just tail stomp anything to oblivion

[rare fractal]

You can't because your damage is terrible

[paper oriole]

Tail slam has wet noodle damage now

[rare fractal]

Plus you're further admitting to requiring more than 1 teno to deal with threats

[stable mica]

Tentos dmg got cucked you cant kill a carno thats just trying to face tank you anymore its awful

[lavish quail]

Games hella unbalanced and everyone knows it

[rare fractal]

Carnos can fucking facetank you to death

[lavish quail]

just mess around with bullshit till people get mad at this games meta being carno-pachy

[paper oriole]

Carno, the fastest land animal in the game, outbrawls an actual brawler in its own tier

[rare fractal]

Not to mention how it basically plays the same niche as an alberto or an allo would in it's current iteration.

[paper oriole]

Its rocket rex now

[barren zephyr]

Don't forget it deals bleed like a mf
Much better than Utah does

[paper oriole]

Carno stole everybody’s niche

[lavish quail]

Just Use pachy, carno or mixpack

[paper oriole]

What next, venomous carno?

[rare fractal]

And it 2 taps utahs as well, it's faster, agility is negligibly different and it requires 33 bites from a utah to kill a carno

[lavish quail]

Nah carno hallucinations cause your terrified of moving anywhere

[paper oriole]

“Mix pack to survive one low iq carno”

[barren zephyr]

Technically one taps a Utah
if it doesn't hurry it's ass to cover otherwise it'll bleed out

[lavish quail]

Ight i'd say thats enough bullshiting from me

[rare fractal]

Forgot about that

[lavish quail]

Utah best dino in QA yall just bad stay mad

[paper oriole]

Best at dying

[rare fractal]

Plot twist, TimberJackle is secretly reasonable

If you were trolling you had me fooled ngl

[lavish quail]

shush you cant tell them that or they'll think im trolling

they cant accept the truth

[paper oriole]

I feel like he was trolling from the start when i came in tbh

[rare fractal]

Oh my mistake

[paper oriole]

But salty fighting is always fun

[barren zephyr]

A twist
Having a dino with a coin flip ability is innovative for a dino survival game

[lavish quail]

You all just cant accept magy will be the best psuedo apex

[rare fractal]

Devs better give it the plesioth shoulder check

[paper oriole]

Magy is going to be the best gorepile in the game

[barren zephyr]

Tbh, can't wait to see everybody moan when they make Magy viable
The seething will be unreal

[lavish quail]

Its top meta

[barren zephyr]

What is argument

[lavish quail]

trust

[rare fractal]

I hate magy on a conceptual level but if they make it viable I'll be more than happy

[lavish quail]

ez just make it slightly slower than teno and have it do a weight based knockback move

so carnos and shit would get knocked over

but it could still run from allos

[rare fractal]

seems like it would work, plus it matches ceras superior agility

[barren zephyr]

You could make it a pseudo tortoise
Play keep away with it's head, rely on soaking damage with it's body
Give it crazy stam, regen, and bleed resist

[lavish quail]

Like fr people want magy to be a skunk or smnth when it just has to be tank with legs

[barren zephyr]

@paper oriole ur idea got called out

[lavish quail]

God please dont tell me he's in on the skunk thing too....

[barren zephyr]

Lmao

[lavish quail]

It make no sense just play hypsi

OR hear me out here

[barren zephyr]

Tbh, I'd prefer tortoise Magy

[lavish quail]

have hypsi be able to ride things

[barren zephyr]

based

[lavish quail]

ikr

[barren zephyr]

no longer trolling, genius

[honest sparrow]

Two face lookin ass

[barren zephyr]

Utah is the two face

Revolutionary playable

[meager tiger]

@stable mica I feel like a brachi or a bronto who stomps on a animal torso when said bronto weighs like 20 tons would probably break a bone or two yeah?

[stable mica]

I feel like Bronto and brachi would one shot everything so there’s not even a point to give them fractures unless they’re stomping a hypo or something

[lavish quail]

I mean adding brachi and bronto with growth will be painful

[meager tiger]

it's in the confirmed list

[lavish quail]

smh imagine growing it for 6h for 60% only to die to a rex pack or smthn

[meager tiger]

And personally saurpods are my favoirte dino clade

[stable mica]

Well just like real sauropods you’re useless till you’re big so ig they could get fractures once they’re big enough

[meager tiger]

I like being HUGE lol

[stable mica]

A 60% brachi could probably still kill a Rex

[meager tiger]

He said rex pack

[lavish quail]

Magy best sauropod

disagree = bias

[stable mica]

Ah I mean still

I imagine a 60% brachi is far from defenseless from most predators

[meager tiger]

Are we gonna get a saurpod with a whip tail

bronto, brachi, magy do not have whip tails

[lavish quail]

The grow time is the problem smh

you'll die to a teamkiller or starvation

[meager tiger]

uh timber? you do reliaze saurpods eat trees

[lavish quail]

HENCE WHY MAGY IS PERFECTION

[meager tiger]

And last time I check theres alot of trees

that other animals can't reach

[lavish quail]

stfu and let me lead everything back to magy being the perfect dino

[meager tiger]

magy eats trees too

silly goose

[lavish quail]

EXACTLY MAKING IT PEAK DINO

WITH NO FOOD COMPETITORS

[stable mica]

I mean outside of hypos it’s is literally top of the food chain like the fuckin peak

Arguably better then any of the predators

Once you’re adult brachi you’re basically untouchable I imagine

[meager tiger]

I thought those one animals ate surpods skins while the saurpod was alive

[stable mica]

Oh yeah you’ll probably be attacked by the flesh grazers but it probably won’t outright kill you unless they commit

[lavish quail]

Magy is objectively better than bronto

[stable mica]

No

[lavish quail]

Yes

its peak fiction/past

[meager tiger]

IS there a whip tail saurpod in the list

[stable mica]

Bronto could not only probably kill all the mega therapods in the game easily once fully grown

[lavish quail]

Whats a slow ass bronto doing to a magy tho

[stable mica]

Breaking its fucking ribs with a tail whip

[lavish quail]

Magy can run from that bozo

[lavish quail]

Smh Magy got dodging skills

[meager tiger]

bronto has a whip tail?

[stable mica]

It probably would

I don’t see why it wouldn’t

[lavish quail]

I do its heavy and would probably hurt a whole lot

[meager tiger]

wait arent whip tails slashing damage

not bludngeioing?

[urban flax]

@idle ibex Dude troodon having good nightvision is even more its main characteristic than having venom

[idle ibex]

nice

[ashen elm]

Bronto does have a whip tail, it's from the same family as Diplodocus and they all (mostly) have that trait

le whip

[honest sparrow]

Chad whip tails vs literally any other sauropod

Affinity system is the only thing I’ve heard of that resembles that

[paper oriole]

Stress mechanics can be easy to abuse

[honest sparrow]

From what I’ve heard affinity system is basically you get buffs or debuffs based off of like doing certain things

I think ceratopsians scratching against trees was mentioned

[meager tiger]

He's got you there lol

[paper oriole]

So why just add something that can be both abused and bypassed?

It wont fix it, it will add more problems

What is your proposed solution to mix packing/carebearing?

What will? What mechanic?

How would it work

“Stress” is a useless answer, how would it work?

Like BoB has stress, which you have said you hate. For good reason obviously

BoB stress is awful

[honest sparrow]

Me dying because I got within continent range of an apato (good mechanic)

[paper oriole]

Ok? How would stress work?

How would you get it

[hybrid matrix]

stamina makes more sense than health

[paper oriole]

How would stress be applied in a way that isnt abusable

[hybrid matrix]

anything involving health is dumb

stamina would make more sense
maybe hanging around other species could affect perks

[honest sparrow]

Implying perks will come by 2030

[paper oriole]

That is abusable because faster animals can apply debuffs and then have their pack swoop in from a distance to take advantage of the weakened foe

[honest sparrow]

So some mix packing is fine but not all?

[paper oriole]

Easy way to make strong animals more vulnerable in a cringe way

Its cancerous but it's less cancerous

[honest sparrow]

I forgot all herbis are friends to the end and would never harm one another

[hybrid matrix]

herbivore mixpacking should be dictated by diets

[paper oriole]

Mix packing also wouldnt be stopped because the separate parties could keep just enough distance and come together to make kills

[honest sparrow]

Also do you get debuffs from just hunting something

Or being in a general range

[hybrid matrix]

and if you make the distance farther so they cant do this then u get worse abusability

[paper oriole]

This distance based stress just causes issues, is abusable or bypassable and only benefits pack hunters

[honest sparrow]

There’s also the chance of people using it as a pseudo radar

[paper oriole]

That just makes them kos bait

[hybrid matrix]

didnt think of that
but i would totally do this if i could

again
it should affect perks

[honest sparrow]

So instead of being exhausted by actually taking damage and wasting stam, it’s by an artificial means?

You get punished for existsing

[paper oriole]

So you think its ok for some utah to just follow you around for 15 minutes while you cant do shit about it so its easier for its pack to kill you? Cancerous

You want to replace toxicity with more toxicity. Trash idea ngl

[hybrid matrix]

maybe stress could be less about stopping mixpacking and more of a gameplay feature
so if you're constantly using stam and/or losing health, u get more stressed (proportionally, obviously), which could have some negative, and some positive effects.

[paper oriole]

It literally punishes slow animals for existing

[honest sparrow]

I’d rather have player interaction be necessary rather than just having a couple pteras kill a brachi by fucking flying

[paper oriole]

Yeah and a game is intended to be gun and engaging

And that largeness doesnt mean shit when you get exhausted because a 400kg goblin has been standing near you too long

[honest sparrow]

You’re not getting my point

[low canopy]

trash idea, thats all honestly

[hybrid matrix]

i would like to restate this idea

[honest sparrow]

Punishing things for existing is bad game design and makes it less fun and balanced for literally everyone

You run risk of things not even having to attack prey to fell it

Not like that lmao

[hybrid matrix]

theres no real good way aside from human moderation

[paper oriole]

Mixpacking is just something that will probably end up continuing to need moderation

Better than adding some abusable trash stress

[hybrid matrix]

SO GO HUNT SOMETHING ELSE FFS

[paper oriole]

Why didnt you drag your kill in to the water when you lunged it

[hybrid matrix]

they might mean live prey

[paper oriole]

Well then oh well

If its alive it isnt an issue

[hybrid matrix]

if u find a random body that you cant eat then go find another one

dont wait

thats not a problem
thats nature

thats literally how u protect ur kids

[paper oriole]

You know dinos could just camp near your little river or pond to apply stress to you as well with your idea

[hybrid matrix]

its only a problem if its a carnivore

BRO I THOUGHT U SAID HERBI X HERBI MIXPACKING WAS FINE

#general-feedback-discussion message

[paper oriole]

Mix packing should just be a moderation issue until an actual good idea comes up to fix it. Yours aint it chief

[hybrid matrix]

HOW ELSE DOES A BIG STEGO MIXPACK WITH A BABY TENO???

[paper oriole]

Also doesnt stego take like 5-6 hits to kill a deino? Or is that just bodyshots

[hybrid matrix]

ok
what exactly is a herd then?

[paper oriole]

Nycta

[hybrid matrix]

what is the purpose of a herd, if not to protect urself, ur babies, and others

[paper oriole]

Thats literally a herd, and when they help each other it is also a herd

[hybrid matrix]

no
obviously it switches from a mixpack to carebearing when the tenos hide behind the stegos as an 8 ton alligator on steroids leaps out of the water

[paper oriole]

of course

[hybrid matrix]

you cannot tell me, that you have NEVER EVER been in a herd where you protected your herdmates

have you ever been a herbivore?

[paper oriole]

Tbh i only consider it carebearing when its between two species that shouldnt be doing it. Like a carno carebearing a utah or a stego carebearing a juvi carno

[hybrid matrix]

yep

[paper oriole]

A stego and teno have reason to help eachother out against predators

They are both berbivores who share common threats

Tenonto can benefit the stego and vice versa

[hybrid matrix]

ahhh no wonder you've never had to protect someone

[paper oriole]

Maia is that one herd species in legacy that hauls ass when apexes show up to merk all the trikes

[meager tiger]

you do realize some herbivores will watch others die. Like zebras?

[hybrid matrix]

there's always the one maia that just dies in the shant/rex/trike dogpile bc they are a moron

[meager tiger]

now a gorilla on the other hand....

[hybrid matrix]

ur just a crummy person then

[meager tiger]

survival of the fittest. Nature doesnt care about morals

[hybrid matrix]

i get it if u wanna be solo, but in a herd, as a shant, its ur job

[paper oriole]

Some herbivores stand and watch others die. Some even kos other herbivores, but some will take the chance to down a predator

[hybrid matrix]

the lore of the game is that (i think) these are human minds inside of dinosaurs
so advanced thinking and morality all make sense

yes you do
no matter what, you get merked by a rex pack

[paper oriole]

I prefer ruleless servers to trash like nycta

[hybrid matrix]

it depends on what the rules are

[paper oriole]

Rules often do harm

[hybrid matrix]

that takes away from the emotional connection imo

same with buying grows and shit

[paper oriole]

Nycta is full of kids who buy rexes and gigas and spinos so the server is half apexes

[hybrid matrix]

ew

[paper oriole]

Idk i havent gone to legacy in a while

[hybrid matrix]

but again
i'd like to restate this idea

[paper oriole]

I was either on nycta or nublar idr but i got slayed by an admin for drinking water because i was too far away from a corpse i was supposed to stay at (annoying as fuck rule)

Honestly the worst servers

[hybrid matrix]

the best servers with this rule are the ones where you are allowed to leave for water and stuff

[paper oriole]

I saw it happen to somebody else in a youtube vid too its just something the admins do because they are trigger happy morons

Sometimes i find a body and wanna take a few bites and leave but theres servers with dumb ass rules where i have to stay at a body even if i didnt down it myself. Idk if that’s on nycta too

I know IoFT had that shit

IoFT was utter shite

I was fighting with a friend and some admin TPed us 500 meters away to some small ass body like “stop fighting body down”

IoFT deserves to never come back

[mystic lion]

personally i like nycta. i think a lot of the rules make sense & have some realistic aspect to them.
you're not tethered to a body, so you can eat from it & then leave the area. the body down rule is just to avoid mass KOSing which i personally find reasonable; there are deathmatches & other servers with different rules if people wanna mass KOS. if someone doesn't like the server then they simply don't have to play on it...

[mystic lion]

i find it's the opposite. there's no point in building an emotional connection to any dino when there are no rules imo. i don't have an 'emotional connection' to any of the utahs i play on evrima because i die all the time. sometimes i welcome death just for a bit of combat practice.

ah, didn't know he ever did that.

when i want a no-rules environment and/or lots of chaos, i just go into a deathmatch. sometimes that's great fun

yeah, i agree. plus it provides--- yes exactly, good combat practice. i learned how to fight decently because of deathmatches.

[hybrid matrix]

the emotional connection forms with things like apexes or midtiers
the longer it is to grow + how long you've survived creates more emotion when it's lost
its about the experiences in that gameplay session, not about how easy it is to get another
sure u can have great experiences with no time spent growing, but it doesnt mean as much imo

[mystic lion]

i really hope that evrima eventually allows deathmatch servers. really, really hoping for it. we would be able to provide so much feedback on hitboxes & combat strategies, etc. if we were able to practice in the chaos of a dm server without having to regrow every time & worry about hunting & whatnot.

[mystic lion]

it creates more frustration, specifically, especially if you die to a rulebreak on a server that has rules. so personally, i think it's excellent that they return people's dinos if they died to a rulebreak. being resurrected after dying to a rulebreak isn't the same as just going and buying a dino, though. if you're someone who can just buy as many as you want, then i wouldn't necessarily disagree with you.

yeah, true. but i would love it if it did eventually get added. it's so cool just to imagine it

[barren zephyr]

Yeah like bro if I pack with someone from baby stage and they die when we're adults I wanna cry

[spring holly]

They will in patch 5, even if its really not needed right now. The game desperately need other things fixed. X_X

[stable mica]

id like the skin system to have more then just the base pattern and with a reasonable variety of colors atleast in like brightness

nobody wants like bob level skin pigments but having some bright colors would be nice

[paper oriole]

non-camo colours like blue, red, yellow, purple etc are actually pretty natural when done sparingly, as shading and detail colours

i hope we dont just get stuck with brown grey and green

[stable mica]

I hope smaller animals like troodon can I have bright colors all over especially since its venomous

[paper oriole]

hypsi and troo would both make sense with showy spots

and ceratopsian frills with showy colours, specifically on the males

its not like a trike is exactly suited for hiding anyway

i could see flyers affording to sport some flashy colours too

[stable mica]

I feel like Giant animals and most of the smaller ones should be allowed to have very vibrant colors either on certain areas or their whole bodies

and then animals like carno size can keep their reds but its more sparing and more desaturated

[paper oriole]

reds and oranges fall in to the same area as browns, especially muted ones so they can sneak in to camouflage skins easier

at least i think so im actually a colourblind idiot

i just know theyre in the same part of the wheel

unlike blue and purple which are their own sections

[stable mica]

I just hope we dont have legacy where its just
green
green
Green
Brown
brown
brown
black
brown
tan
Peach
Brown
grey
green

[paper oriole]

legacy bird poop skins

then the bananasaurs

[stable mica]

you could make some nice skins in legacy

but most of the time you HAD to use black

[paper oriole]

god i hate the bananasaurs and the human skin dinos

[stable mica]

mostly black and one of the detail colors like tan/yellow looked really good

[paper oriole]

i made a human skin rex and it was so gross

[stable mica]

Human skin dilos are fucking hilarious

Skin walkers

[limber hull]

skinrex was something i made once and i both loved and feared him

[paper oriole]

fleshrex

[limber hull]

when he died a sense of sadness and relief overcame me