general-feedback-discussion

[tender latch]

Also imo Valve would probably do better with The Isle than Afterthought

[honest sparrow]

Valve is essentially just a site to host shit now

Which is fine, I just miss their actual games

[tender latch]

Diets, burrowing, basically just things that arent in the game, etc.

The way to make something fun is something that wont be added for years

[barren zephyr]

One major problem is

[karmic plank]

I remember hanging out in big herbi groups in Legacy, vibing and occasionally fighting off rex pairs, but it's not something I could do night after night

[barren zephyr]

they give us no information about the future of the game

[tender latch]

Afterthought is the major problem, no in-game problems can compare with the irl problems

[tender latch]

It's because it has no future

No offense

[barren zephyr]

Thanks

[tender latch]

Rodrigo Vega's Isle didn't even have a beginning so I doubt this Isle will last long either

Tbh

[barren zephyr]

Moving to

The isle evrima 2

[tender latch]

It's just that I've basically completely lost faith in Afterthought

[silent current]

recode 2

[barren zephyr]

Games do require planning.

[tender latch]

They just don't really have a plan

[barren zephyr]

no information on diets. all they said is “yeah it’s almost done guys! 6 more months maybe!” Pachy literally got one check in a single month.

[tender latch]

The Isle

tbh

[tawny juniper]

what was that

[tender latch]

It was this one #general-feedback message

[pulsar lake]

Do not forget that we may not get #phase-two-archive anymore so possibly no more #roadmap-updates, even if they are super rare for now and we know nothing of how it would function.

[barren zephyr]

consider this. The entire fucking script for HL3 has been written. And it was actually leaked and/or revealed several years ago. Well yeah it is a story driven game, while the isle is not, but valve is very prepared unlike afterthought

[odd sedge]

@barren zephyr
No

[swift dew]

[odd sedge]

'Cause evrima?

[vale pawn]

the weather is just right for a rex to be added

[urban flax]

Add Hyper Rex
now

[barren zephyr]

The isle is not good.

[hoary dawn]

the clouds say rex

[karmic plank]

I don't believe for a second that they don't have a plan - we are talking about the jobs and livelihood of over a dozen people here - it's just that they haven't shared it to a degree that satisfies everyone

If this was a last hurrah, we'd be seeing a DLC pump and dump like every other EA game

[hoary dawn]

that is the issue, this whole small roster thing has not been elaborated enough

[karmic plank]

So reduced roster, while sounding weird and shit, does make sense when you are trying to balance the game

Lots of dinos that people want in the game never coexisted, and trying to balance them would never really work

So you want Allosaurus, rex, giga, la la la

Yeah you could shove them all in the same map

[hoary dawn]

at that point its on them for planning these playables and showing us them

[barren zephyr]

Rex when

now

[barren zephyr]

It isn't about them not coexisting in the fossil record. It's more about coming up with a reasonable ecosystem for a comparatively small island.

[pure fossil]

I said it before and I repeat: someone buy the rights of the game and toss money for make a full Dev team and go on. At the end we still dealing with the same troubles from 2016

[karmic plank]

I'll be honest, I haven't read any of the media releases... But if it's true that there's no real timeline as saying "this will be done this month, this will be done this month", including dinosaur releases...

I'm pretty disappointed

[hoary dawn]

what

[karmic plank]

The impression I'm getting here is that no real timeline has been shared on what is planned for release and when

[hoary dawn]

there are no concrete etas for anything, they have a roadmap of what they are working on in the order they will release it

[karmic plank]

Or if it had been shared it's highly variable

Well ok that's a little different

Concrete deadlines can be kinda tricky in this industry, especially for small teams

[hoary dawn]

yea

[urban flax]

The Isle's development is anything but slow

[hoary dawn]

well

[night sand]

[karmic plank]

Tbh, back in 2019 I assumed the game was dead and abandoned

[hoary dawn]

it is slow

[barren zephyr]

[barren zephyr]

You've also actually got to aim for popularity. The Isle should try making some attempt at getting into a game conference, possibly showing off some interesting stuff they have worked on and so forth.

[night sand]

6 years and EA

[swift dew]

eh, its not very fast. but it is by no means slow like a certain... other dinosaur game

[barren zephyr]

It is relatively slow.

It’s very slow

[night sand]

It’s not saurian slow

[karmic plank]

The fact that Evrima was even released was a big pleasant surprise for me, most other early access developers would have dumped it by noe

[night sand]

But it’s slow

[hoary dawn]

imo its perfectly understandable why its slow when you stop and consider everything that goes into what they do, but i wont deny that is it a painfully slow process at times

[urban flax]

One year ago when the recode launched it was completely barebones and lacked everything. Now the game is almost functional, has way more playables than before, mechanics never seen
One year is super short in terms of game development

Especially with such a small team and such an ambitious game

[swift dew]

for how ambitious of a game the isle wants to be, its actually pretty quick

[karmic plank]

^

[swift dew]

especially as an indie game

[karmic plank]

Like it's slow considering it was first released like 2016

BUT

[urban flax]

Evrima wasn't released in 2016

[barren zephyr]

The isle has has had numerous shortcomings, and new ones might as well be expected.

[karmic plank]

Look at it this way instead - think of Legacy as The Isle, and Evrima as The Isle 2 Early access

[hoary dawn]

i'd rather they take the time to fine tune things and build the game the way they want instead of rushing things

[karmic plank]

And fkn bonus, you got The Isle 2 for free cos legacy was a bit of a shitshoe

[urban flax]

Well it's two separate games

[karmic plank]

It's 10x better than every other survival early access game I bought

Go look at 7 days to die

Ark is still a shitshow

[urban flax]

This is just a matter of opinion

[molten tulip]

None of these discussions and complaining about slow development would be happening if everyone in this server was forced to make their own video game and see how difficult it is

[urban flax]

But look at the polishing, the mechanics, the soul The Isle has.

[hoary dawn]

cant talk for rust but ark is certainly not a well made game

[night sand]

Everyone here includes you

[karmic plank]

Rust is the exception. Ark is still buggy and shit with $300 worth if dlc

[hoary dawn]

ark has boatloads of content sure, but it is very messily stitched together

[swift dew]

valheim is pretty good

[jovial hazel]

I feel sorry for The Isle devs tbh. This community is full of some unhealthily obsessive people.

[karmic plank]

I really, really tried to enjoy Ark

[molten tulip]

Already have

[karmic plank]

Hah

[night sand]

What’s it called

[molten tulip]

6 months work and it wasn't even playable

[karmic plank]

Murk, at least, was worth the price of entry

[night sand]

Either way, just because we don’t make em, doesn’t mean we can’t criticize em

[molten tulip]

You can criticize them, but it can be awful baseless criticism that stems from inexperience

[karmic plank]

Absolutely, constructive criticism is the right of everyone who has bought it

The Isle has still been my least regretted Survival EA title

By far

and my point still stands.

Evrima has been the first game in a long time that I've actually bothered trying to leave work early to play, it's been a ball for idk 30 hours or so

[hoary dawn]

well i mean they are very different games, there's not much to compare them on

[karmic plank]

I think we'd have to agree to disagree there, at least when you consider the relative pricepoint

O can see why you'd say that, and I'm not saying you are wrong

Ark is that plus that much 4 times over for dlc

Plus 200gb install

I got bored of it quickly

[hoary dawn]

it is

[karmic plank]

Like you aren't wrong

It's a good game

But it's still a buggy mess

[urban flax]

You're comparing a fully finished game with a huge team to an early beta indie game

[hoary dawn]

ark is a fun game that was worth the price of admission, but its not really comparable to the isle at all aside from the fact that they both have dinosaurs and basic survival elements like eating and drinking

[karmic plank]

At least you can't mesh underneath and eat deinos from below in The Isle, lol

[night sand]

Doesn’t take a genius to identify an orange from an apple

[night sand]

That’s the problem, 6 years in and early beta

[urban flax]

Not 6 years
Why can't people understand that Legacy and Evrima are two different games ?

[night sand]

I didn’t pay for legacy or evrima, I payed for the Isle

[karmic plank]

Again though, Evrima is basically a new game built from the same mould - EA, Ubisoft, et Al would have called it The Isle 2 and charged you full price

[urban flax]

So what ? They made a game. They made it wrong and instead of dropping it they decided to redo it from scratch for free. That doesn't make it a slow development or unnacceptable beta time

Most people would have dropped it

[karmic plank]

Do I wish it was more complete? Yes. Do I get annoyed at bugs? Yes. But Evrima has still been the first game in years that I've tried to leave work early to play

[hoary dawn]

-work on game for 4 years
-get to a point where the project isn't going anywhere
-make the tough call to scrap it and start from scratch

[urban flax]

Be told you are slow and lazy

[karmic plank]

When I rage quit over getting spawn camped as a deino I tried going back to legacy.... My dudes you might be forgetting how far it's come from ther

[hoary dawn]

evrima has more potential than legacy ever did

[karmic plank]

Like I said, I assume legacy was all it was ever going to be, got a bit sad, and added it to the list of "abandoned early access survival games"

It's frankly astounding that it's even still being worked on at all

[hoary dawn]

legacy does have the excuse of being basically the sole pioneer of dinosaur survival games in its time, and now that the devs have been at it a while evrima is chugging along significantly faster

[karmic plank]

Like The Isle can't be making stuff all in sales atm - they already have your money

But they think they can make it something special

And I'm happy to be there for the ride

[hoary dawn]

in just over a year it almost has everything legacy did mechanically and already has more in depth mechanics and playables

[urban flax]

The Isle will boost its sales by a huge margin once they add humans

[karmic plank]

Someone who's slept in the last 24 hours should pull up the steam sales numbers and divide by the number of Devs, see what they are living on atm

[urban flax]

It's a good thing Dondi has the money and passion to support this project for all this time though, despite all that has happened

[karmic plank]

Oh oh

[icy lion]

you cant reliably use that since over the course of the game, many devs have come and gone. additionally there have been sales, and steam takes a cut

[karmic plank]

Whew thought I was about to get in Trouble

[icy lion]

no youre fine haha

[urban flax]

You can't be in trouble if you don't break any rule

[icy lion]

thats the problem with being a mod, everyone expects somethings wrong when we start typing

[tawny juniper]

50*

I play too much ark

But people have played a lot more than me

I have 400 hours

[karmic plank]

Anyway idk what the financial arrangements are and it's none of my business, but I can't stress enough how much joy it brings me to see the trend of abandonware EA Games get bucked like a teno with an exhausted Utah grappled on

Ok actual feedback, can we get a furry raptor like Ark has

[urban flax]

Feathered default velo or riot

[icy lion]

punch has confirmed we'll get feather customization, im not sure if the quote is in the old channel tho

[hoary dawn]

not like ark hopefully, but yes

feathered raptor

[urban flax]

btw I hope velociraptor will be feathered with no featherless option. Because if it gets one it would mean its wings won't be useful for gameplay and that'd be a shame

[karmic plank]

Honestly just five us a freakishly large hypsi for a day and I'll be happy

With a tailslam

[honest sparrow]

I really like our old velo model tho

[urban flax]

Meh
It's bland and ugly

But I guess it's an opinion

[hoary dawn]

[honest sparrow]

Also all dinos with feathers should have the options for scales

[karmic plank]

Old velo is just a Utah variant imo

[urban flax]

Not if their feathers are part of gameplay

[hoary dawn]

unless the feathers play into their mechanics

him

[karmic plank]

If we are getting another smallish raptor let it be different and cool

[honest sparrow]

Obviously

But I do not know of a current playable that uses its wings for anything other than display or looks

Feathered ones

Not Ptera

Or quetz

[urban flax]

I honestly don't see the appeal in something like a featherless Ovi or featherless hypsi

[karmic plank]

Hypsi sort of uses feathers for jumping

[urban flax]

We've seen with Utah how ugly it is

[karmic plank]

And having a raptor which can drop down bigger cliffs would be useful

[honest sparrow]

Utah isn’t scaled, that’s its problem

It’s just a weird leathery texture

[urban flax]

I think it has tiny scales

[karmic plank]

Underdeveloped wings for bigger leaps, dodges (since velo will be prey to Utah I assume), and better/safe movement over the mountains would be good

[honest sparrow]

It’s just another customization option, I also want hypsi to be exposed for the rat it is and I think featherless ovi has a certain atmosphere to it

[honest sparrow]

You can do all of this without feathers really

[urban flax]

Velo with wings can use them to perform aerial (or ground) tricks

I have an old suggestion about how a winged velo could work

[honest sparrow]

Link?

[urban flax]

#general-feedback message

[karmic plank]

The North mountains is basically unusable atm, adding some herbis and something like the velo that could call it home would be sweet

And make feathers and little stubby wings make sense

[honest sparrow]

The northern mountains have no inhabitants because there’s like no food and no water

And it’s in the corner of the map

[karmic plank]

I gave that a tick, I love the idea of a double jump and maybe even another sort of grapple where you land on top of your pret

Super hyper agile could be an issue with ping and latency tho

Dryo and Hypsi kinda teleport a bit as is

[honest sparrow]

It’s a pretty solid suggestion but personally the double jump is too much for me

[urban flax]

Yes that's the problem
Although we can hope in the future current latency issues will only be a bad memory

[urban flax]

Yeah I know it's too much ^^
Just aerial manoeuvrability would be fine

[honest sparrow]

Yeah that works

Generally I just want all terrain velo

[karmic plank]

Not like full, double height... More like the second jump you get in Rocket League

[urban flax]

This creature honestly has much more potential than the "smaller and worse Utah" that people seem to expect

[honest sparrow]

I can take a lot of bullshit in this game

Double jumping velos is unfortunately not on that list

[karmic plank]

That's fair

[hoary dawn]

i love the idea of an arboreal glider velo

[urban flax]

Or they could get Yoshi's flutter :P

[karmic plank]

Velos as something to make ptera a bit scared would be nice tho

Leaping out of the brush on the side of the river when they are fishing

[paper oriole]

They should give velo the momentum climb and moderate gliding instead of giving utah a momentum climb it has 0 need for

[urban flax]

They could both have it
But let Velo climb 3x higher

[paper oriole]

Utah is quite nimble and mobile enough without it

It can already get onto out of reach rocks

It doesnt need more utilities added to encourage legacy utah gameplay

[urban flax]

That's true

[silent current]

Nice pfp flop

[vale pawn]

i swear i have the gif

[zealous root]

can some people help me with a video in the evirma eu servers please, i need 6 people maybe more

[paper oriole]

Lmao there's 3 different shut reacts on that guy's suggestion

Love it

[vale pawn]

[paper oriole]

What would micro or archie even do lol eat a bug and then die

[oak tapir]

@wide scroll Deino In game isn't gonna have a strong bite , it isn't gonna be the strongest , It gets killed by stego , a pseudo apex , It's gonna get fucked by real apexes

[hoary dawn]

well

only if it is dumb enough to attack said apexes like the deinos that attack stegos

[oak tapir]

Deino vs stego is a 50 50 matchup , stego is a pseudo apex

[hybrid matrix]

it depends on the situation

deino should scare any mid tier to pseudo apex if its in the water

on land is another story

[hoary dawn]

a deino would destroy another apex in water

[hybrid matrix]

i was thinking in terms of dragging

it should definitely be able to defend itself in water, but it should only be able to drag up to pseudo apexes (while swimming)

[hoary dawn]

that sounds good

it can currently only lunge things half its weight, if they made it so it can lunge things 3/4s of its weight when they're both swimming it would make deino seem far more formidable to larger things

[paper oriole]

They should just make it so swimming terrestrials have their weight values reduced across the board

So deino can drag them

[swift dew]

stego is going to have to fight rex, unless you want it to run, which I find silly

[barren zephyr]

@latent crow the roster isn’t being spilt

[latent crow]

Isnt that generally what everyone things is happening?

or has there been some clarification?

[barren zephyr]

Survival will have a set roster for official servers

unofficials can do what they want

[barren zephyr]

@tender latch thats a slippery slope

[compact hare]

there was some clarification like 10 or 20 minutes ago in #isle-discussion. Scrow up a bit and read

[solar peak]

@tender latch I like you

[tender latch]

⛽

[barren zephyr]

He likes you

[solar peak]

I like you

[barren zephyr]

[tender latch]

#offtopic-discussion idots

[solar peak]

not you fatass

[tender latch]

:(

[solar peak]

ok dad

not you dumbass

[pulsar lake]

Wait

Baba is banned?

[tender latch]

Idk

[pulsar lake]

Tried to look in messages if I could find something

[barren zephyr]

[pulsar lake]

cause I didn't find the suggestion

[nova anchor]

@desert tendon I think a humanless gamemode could be something for the very deep future

[desert tendon]

I hope so

[nova anchor]

but like, not for a while

because I think a gamemode structured around being dinosaur exclusive would take some development time

which is why I say if it was to be added it would have to be pretty damn far away

personally humanless wouldn't be my cup of tea but if enough people want it I'd be good with it for the deep future

[tepid gate]

Why would that take some time? You just disable humans and off you go

It is something that's meant to be plausible on the community servers

You can turn off any playable/faction

on your own server

[nova anchor]

I feel like there'd be systems and mechanics that come with humans that would need to be removed/changed

it's speculation

[tepid gate]

Doubt it

[nova anchor]

I can't be certain of anything because humans aren't in the game yet

[tepid gate]

They might have some impact on balance but I don't think the devs have ever mentioned any specific dinosaur mechanics that rely on humans being around

[nova anchor]

yeah also balance is a thing, I just think that catering towards humanless gameplay shouldn't be a priority

[tepid gate]

I mean that's a fair point - anything can change at any time but so far the devs seemed to suggest that the game should be playable with any and every faction turned off

you could turn off dinosaurs too, or just leave them as AI

[nova anchor]

supposedly

[tepid gate]

and have some big cannibal vs merc battleground

[nova anchor]

again anything could change, this is the isle we're talking about

[honest sparrow]

If they added a human less game mode I’d assume servers would already have the option to toggle factions

[nova anchor]

future talk is really just wild speculation with this game

[tepid gate]

Fair point

[latent crow]

I mean the isle right now is humanless all around so

which i like lol i am too worried about rexes dont need no humans wandering around with guns pointed at me too 😛

[nova anchor]

humans won't be terribly strong

or at least shouldn't be

afaik they're supposed to stress stealth more than anything

they probably (and shouldn't) play offensively unless they're endgame and hunting hypos or something

[tender latch]

Mercs will be the most unviable thing ever

Literally

[honest sparrow]

He knows

Also oro exists

So

[tender latch]

i am stupid

[storm flower]

@paper oriole ?

[paper oriole]

What

[storm flower]

What's the downsides

[tender latch]

Everything

[paper oriole]

Enables targeting

[storm flower]

Targeting is difficult to do unless you have friends

[paper oriole]

Hey friends this guy killed me go get him

[tender latch]

Revenge killing

[storm flower]

bc there's no way the devs are making their own anticheat anytime soon lol

they rely on BE and that fuckin sucks

[molten tulip]

Imagine you lose your 5 hour dinosaur in an exhilarating battle to the death to a dinosaur named poopbutt

[storm flower]

LOL

[paper oriole]

If admins have a private log that shows who kills who, who is currently grouped, etc it would be less toxic

[molten tulip]

^

[storm flower]

that's a good idea

i just wanted to see what people thought

[violet magnet]

it is being split, Kissen literally said so

[pulsar lake]

It looks like it is going to be slipt into different parts

like one small game mode, medium one, large one etc

which

is unnecessary tbf

[nova anchor]

it's not just unnecessary, it's stupid

[paper oriole]

Is this their solution to adding unviable dinos like magy

[nova anchor]

unless a gamemode with the whole roster is retained on a set of officials

[barren zephyr]

Making entirely different game modes just because of a garbage playable

[paper oriole]

Magy, the islebreaker

Bender of reality

[barren zephyr]

magy, the destroyer of the island

[paper oriole]

Magy the divider

[barren zephyr]

[storm flower]

i just want the isle to be finished

mfg

[barren zephyr]

8 years

[hasty dagger]

Just gonna drop this here.. #isle-discussion message

[violet magnet]

that is basically saying they don't know how to balance all these dinos to be viable in the same environment so they're splitting up the roster

come on

magy would get steamrolled by anything bigger than cerato and the devs know it
and if it wouldn't then why and how? We don't even know how magy is going to play other than "it run fast and bodycheck cerato and supposedly has toxic meat"

[hasty dagger]

It literally can just outstam things and lose them in the jungle with it’s superior agility, along with being tanky due to being covered in armor

[violet magnet]

anky is covered in armor
a few osteoderms on the skin isn't "armor"

[storm flower]

there's alot they could add to make everything balanced

[tender latch]

@celest basin I think tar pits in some form are already confirmed

Let me look for the quote really quick

[celest basin]

there are tar pits in game. They are in closed off caves, Im just really hoping to see something like this

a plains area of this

[tender latch]

I'd be more into something like this #general-feedback message

[celest basin]

not ice age animals of course

yea that works too, its still tar pits

[pulsar lake]

kinda Kissen's opposite statement ngl

like

2 pov in a same team

[hasty dagger]

That was in response to Kissen’s statement and the following outburst. Kissen was just being her poorly worded self.

[barren zephyr]

Not true

punchpacket confirmed its only for officials

survival as a gamemode isn’t going to have a spilt roster

[barren zephyr]

It has a pretty thick neck

[pulsar lake]

The thing is

that officials will be killed that way

No one will want to play on them

[barren zephyr]

some people will

[pulsar lake]

and if they do not balance the game like everything being played on a single server

balance will completely be bad

as servers who do not want splited roster will get animals that shouldn't meet each other as they are designed for other game modes

[barren zephyr]

We have no reason to think things not available on official servers wont be balanced

[pulsar lake]

so like Sandbox/Survival back in Legacy.

[barren zephyr]

We have no reason it will be like that

[pulsar lake]

They will be, but on their own game mod. They didn't imply that they would all be balanced in a same server.

As they stated, game modes.

[hoary dawn]

punch cleared it all up

[barren zephyr]

You’re just lying here, they never said non official survival dinosaurs wont be balanced

[hoary dawn]

read

[pulsar lake]

Except if they decided to balance everything like if it was on a same server.

I never said that.

Think, Dio.

[barren zephyr]

Punchpacket said it was for officials

[still raptor]

Evrima is its own gamemode

[pulsar lake]

I said that devs said that there going to be different gamemodes for officials.

[still raptor]

^

[pulsar lake]

And so, by this reason, a lot of animals won't be balanced alltogether if they aren't thought to be in a same game mod.

Like Magy never being balanced about meeting Acro.

[barren zephyr]

We have no reason to think animals outside of the evrima gamemode wont be balanced around others in the eveima gamemode

[barren zephyr]

Not true

[pulsar lake]

Or Cerato never being balanced about meeting Megalania.

[barren zephyr]

Not true

Both likely will be balanced around each other

[pulsar lake]

I mean, if they aren't in a same game mod or thought to be, it will be the case.

[barren zephyr]

Not true

link a dev saying that

[pulsar lake]

As I see, it is worthless to talk with you.

[barren zephyr]

Im asking for a source for your claims

it should be easy if you arent misinforming people

From what I understand, unofficial servers will have the option to enable all dinosaurs, and we have no reason to think the developers won’t balance the entire roster the best they can

You haven’t showed anything to make it change my mind

[pulsar lake]

I never said it is the case, or it is obligatory the case. I said that if they did X thing Y way, then it will end up Z as there are no information about that.

[barren zephyr]

You just did?

[barren zephyr]

here

[pulsar lake]

"I mean, if they aren't in a same game mod or thought to be, it will be the case."

Message isn't modified.

[barren zephyr]

Yes, that is you claiming dinosaurs not in the official server roster won’t be balanced around each-other.

[pulsar lake]

No.

[barren zephyr]

And you have yet to prove that

[tawny juniper]

Yeah, if you read he's saying they aren't designed to matchup together

[pulsar lake]

As I said :

I

F

If

you know?

If

If

it is a possibility

it isn't the case

it is like may/might

[barren zephyr]

And? Im confused

You said “If X happens, Y will be like that” thats making a statement

[pulsar lake]

That's not.

[barren zephyr]

It is?

[tawny juniper]

Nobody is saying they will be unbalanced, their saying the dinos on one roster aren't made to matchup with dinos on another, so when they are in the same roster things might get wonky

[pulsar lake]

^

[barren zephyr]

And we have NO reason to think this

[pulsar lake]

Why?

Look at Punch message.

[tawny juniper]

There is plenty of reason to think this

[pulsar lake]

We have.

[barren zephyr]

Devs didn’t say it would

[pulsar lake]

They stated it. Both Punch and Kissen.

[tawny juniper]

Devs don't need to say anything it's very easy to understand why that would happen

[pulsar lake]

Using Titanoboa example.

[barren zephyr]

Acting like it’s confirmed is boderline misinformation

[tawny juniper]

Nobody is acting like it's confirmed, but it's pretty obvious to understand why things may get screwed up when dinos are balanced around different dinos are then mixed together

[barren zephyr]

We have no reason to think they wont be balanced around each other as best as they could

[tawny juniper]

Same idea as if you threw the animals from one ecosystem into another one, things are going to get screwed up

[pulsar lake]

Dio just needs to look into what if means

[tawny juniper]

You don't understand.

[pulsar lake]

don't worry

That's Dio

let him in his wardo

[barren zephyr]

How is this relevant

You didn’t use “if” in the way you’re acting like you did

[pulsar lake]

Because it changes the whole meaning?
It isn't an affirmation.

I used all the time if.

[barren zephyr]

Saying “if X happens, Y will.” when we have nothing confirming Y happens is misinformation

Its a statement

[pulsar lake]

It isn't.

Like.

Think Dio, Think.

https://tenor.com/view/think-mark-invincible-omniman-gif-21416554

[tawny juniper]

For example lets say kentro is balanced so that it's able to survive against things in its own roster, lets say for example allo and carno, Is thrown into a map with playables such as sucho and cera kentro isn't designed to be balanced around those dinos, so it's either going to body them or get bodied by them

[tawny juniper]

NOBODY IS SAYING THAT

READ!

[barren zephyr]

Levi did earlier?

[pulsar lake]

I did and it doesn't mean that it will obligatory happen.

[barren zephyr]

Well gtg

we can agree to disagree

[tawny juniper]

Ok, but what's the point in still bringing it up

[pulsar lake]

Like, if the different roster based on different game mods happens, it is extremely likely that balance will get yoinky and...weird.

[tawny juniper]

Some people only hear what they want to hear, bruh

[pulsar lake]

That's Dio.

Don't worry.

That's the first time I talked to him, but I've heard a lot about him.

[barren zephyr]

he certainly has a reputation on here

[pulsar lake]

He has.

[icy lion]

enough of that

[pulsar lake]

Okay.

lunary do you have an opinion about recent dev statement? It'd be interesting to see a mod opinion tbh.

If you don't/can't share it is fine and I think everyone can understand that.

[icy lion]

#isle-discussion message

are you referring to this/

?

[pulsar lake]

For example, yes. But also Kissen's.

[icy lion]

i dont have an opinion

its been planned for a long time

people blew the new terminology out of proportion

[pulsar lake]

Thank you for your answer and you're comprehension.

[hoary dawn]

i wouldn't call it a plan, more just a precaution

[barren zephyr]

The point is that your and the other guys entire argument is based around a unlikely, and unconfirmed worst case scarino case, and acting like it’s confirmed when there’s no reason not to is like I said, misinformation.

The developers aren’t idiots, they won’t just not give a shit about balance outside of the official server roster, like they said they’ll give every creature the same amount of love.

[hasty dagger]

^

[tawny juniper]

Our point though, is that it doesn't take a whole lot to figure out why that could easily go wrong, refer to this,

[barren zephyr]

Kentro can easily be balanced around sucho and cera?

[tawny juniper]

read.

[barren zephyr]

Its a poor example

How am I supposed to get a good understanding of your argument when your own example doesn’t support it

[tawny juniper]

You could use any 1 herbivore and 4 carnivores to prove the point I was making

[barren zephyr]

Can you do that then?

[tawny juniper]

Sure

[barren zephyr]

thanks

[tawny juniper]

Hypsi is balanced around rex and giga, but not around austro an utah

diablo is balanced around carno and spino, but not rex and velo

[barren zephyr]

But hypsi can easily escape austro and utah?

Diablo can be balanced around rex and velo pretty easily to

[tawny juniper]

You obviously aren't reading what I'm saying

these are examples

[barren zephyr]

Im just asking for a good example

[barren zephyr]

You aren’t doing a good job with supporting your argument, I dont get the issue

[tawny juniper]

How am I supposed to make a proper example without a list of the different rosters

[barren zephyr]

You’re just naming random herbies and carnis

[tawny juniper]

You told me to

[barren zephyr]

I asked for a good example of the issue

Well I implied I did

[tawny juniper]

You asked me to use any 1 herbivore and 4 carnivores

In no way whatsoever was that implied

[barren zephyr]

My issue with your previous example was how poor it was, why would you list more poor examples?

[tawny juniper]

Read.

[barren zephyr]

Did you expect me to suddenly change my mind

I explained the issues with your example before

Why would I want more examples with the same issues

No offense, but it’s common sense.

[tawny juniper]

And I explained that it isn't a real scenario, the point was that the herbivore is balanced to be able to be viable with 2 carnivores in its roster, but is not viable while the 2 from a different roster are there

[tawny juniper]

You're telling me

[barren zephyr]

But that isnt the case

If it isn’t a real scenario, why does it matter?

If you’re just making up stuff, should I really care?

[tawny juniper]

You don't need a real scenario

You just need the 1 herbivore and 4 carnivores

You don't even need 5 dinos

Just liek 4

[barren zephyr]

Yet we dont have any real examples of that

so why does it matter

[tawny juniper]

Do you just not read ever

[barren zephyr]

I am

[tawny juniper]

clearly not

[barren zephyr]

You’re complaining about a hypothetical situation that isnt going to happen

Why would the developers care

or me

[tawny juniper]

Like I said before you clearly are either just not reading or cannot comprehend what I'm saying

let me try to dumb it down

Lets use a modern day example

So lets say deer, are built to be able to escape wolves and bears or something (not a real scenario), if you put tigers and cheetahs in the deers habitat either the tigers and cheetahs would starve or the deer would die out

[barren zephyr]

this is a video game

Use a isle example

[tawny juniper]

so either the tiger and cheetah are not viable, or the deer is not viable

[tawny juniper]

Give me a split roster list and I'd be happy to do so.

[barren zephyr]

Literally all Im asking for is a good example that proves your argument

Why can’t you give me that

Or… is there no good example because its a non issue?

[tawny juniper]

How do you expect me to make a scenario without a split roster list

Read.

[barren zephyr]

Make a hypothetical one?

[tawny juniper]

I've been making hypothetical ones and you tell me to create a real one

What do you want

[barren zephyr]

Im literally just asking for a actual in game case of something not being balanced around a certain creature

[tawny juniper]

Give me a split roster list.

[barren zephyr]

Make a hypothetical one

Literally just make a good example

[barren zephyr]

You were naming random dinosaurs!

[tawny juniper]

I can't make a good example without a split roster list

Like I've said so many times

Give me a split roster list and sure

[barren zephyr]

You can, just take a animal that would suffer due to not being balanced around another due to a spilt roster

There is literally no need for a list

[tawny juniper]

There is a need

[barren zephyr]

You were actually making examples JUST FINE without a list, so why is it a issue now?

[tawny juniper]

If a dinosaur isn't on a list with another dinosaur how do I know if it's balanced to deal with it

[barren zephyr]

It probably would be

[tawny juniper]

Because you shit on them as if I was making real ones

[barren zephyr]

Because a fake example serves no purpose

It says nothing

[tawny juniper]

You just said to make fake ones

Make up your mind or stop

If you want fake ones, here you go, if you want real ones give me a roster list

[barren zephyr]

Im asking for a in game example that makes sense, just take a dinosaur that has GEUINE ISSUES BALANCE WISE because its not balanced around another

Im starting to think you’re just complaining for the sake of complaining

You’re just avoiding making a genuine example because there is none

You know this isn’t a genuine issue

[tawny juniper]

Ok so, Like I've said I don't know if (for a fake example) Hypsi is going to be balanced when it is with cera, because hypsi and cera are not built to be in the same environment (different roster), So when they are put together things get messed up

[barren zephyr]

Explain how things get messed up

[tawny juniper]

Give me a split roster and I'd be happy to, I get a feeling I've said this before am I wrong?

[barren zephyr]

You don’t need a list

[tawny juniper]

Hypsi gets absolutely shit on, or cera does

[barren zephyr]

How?

[tawny juniper]

For a real example I do

[barren zephyr]

You don’t

[tawny juniper]

Hypsi is either easily hunted, or cera can't get food

[barren zephyr]

How?

They should be fine

Explain why they won’t be fine

[tawny juniper]

You're telling me, in order to create a real scenario, I don't need a list of what dinos won't be balanced towards eachother

[tawny juniper]

like this

[barren zephyr]

You don’t

[barren zephyr]

Why would it be easily hunted?

[tawny juniper]

How do you figure

[barren zephyr]

Why would cerato fail to get food?

[barren zephyr]

Because you can just explain the issues with not balancing a certain dinosaur around another one

[tawny juniper]

This is exactly what I mean, you tell me to make fake scenarios then act like I'm making a real one so you seem more correct

I'm done arguing with someone who lacks the capabilities to read, or understand what someone else is saying

[barren zephyr]

This is getting ridiculous, Im asking for a scenario where another dinosaur fails to be viable because it isn’t balanced around another one

You still havent delivered

You’re complaining about nothing

If there’s no issue that you can point out, why would the developers or me, take it seriously?

Spilt rosters cause no balance issues.

[hoary dawn]

splitting the roster is more of a cheap way out of balancing

and i doubt it'll happen for that many animals as most of them are perfectly possible to balance against eachother

[violet magnet]

Para

[barren zephyr]

What about para?

[violet magnet]

This right here

[barren zephyr]

There’s no reason to believe animals won’t be balanced around each other the best they can despite being in separate rosters

[hoary dawn]

the whole reason punch said some animals wouldn't be with others is if they couldn't be properly slotted in

[barren zephyr]

Pic?

[violet magnet]

You asked for an in-game example of bad balance and I gave one
Para has shit stam regen, it can barely hold its own against predators its size because of its weird hitbox. Yes it can run, but then it has to sit for AGES to regen stam, and by then whatever's after it has caught up

[barren zephyr]

Para isn’t in game?

[hoary dawn]

its in the message that was linked above

scroll up

he used titanoboa as an example

[barren zephyr]

There’s nothing proving that para will be balanced like legacy

[barren zephyr]

Why would paras hitbox stay the same?

[barren zephyr]

Stam regen might get buffed to

[hoary dawn]

using legacy as an example for balance when talking about evrima isn't the best idea

[barren zephyr]

Which message?

[hoary dawn]

#isle-discussion message

elaboration on the whole roster "split" situation

saying not every animal will come is poor wording for "we wont guarantee every animal will come because we may encounter issues that prevent them from being properly implemented"

[karmic plank]

Having sandbox dinosaurs is perfectly fine imo, give us the ability to screw around with broken or overpowered ones that obviously can't be in the normal mode

[barren zephyr]

That isn’t what they’re doing

theyll be balanced

not obviously OP or weak

[hoary dawn]

they have said that every animal coming to the game will get equal care

having broken or op ones would be a step back

[karmic plank]

I've seen no evidence of any intent to do anything other than make dinos sandbox if they disrupt the game balance too much

[hoary dawn]

i mean it doesn't necessarily have to be sandbox

if for whatever reason a dino cant be fit in naturally i assume it'd just be put on hold and then fitted into another roster set later down the line

[karmic plank]

As an ex-game developer, I think people underestimate how hard it is to release a new class and guarantee it will be balanced... Many games just release, whatch the shitshow, and then nerf or buff in response

[hoary dawn]

which i still think is highly unlikely for most upcoming playables

[hoary dawn]

well yea but that's also the challenge of game making

finding the balance

the solution should be finding a way to have everything work, not shove things that stump you into the corner

[karmic plank]

Releasing something to sandbox only first, seeing how people use it, then releasing to official roster when they felt confident it is fine is a mature attitude imo

Like when trike comes out

[hoary dawn]

well yea, if they do add it back to the official roster

trike is one of the ones that would be fairly easy to balance it just needs to be added when there is actual competition for it

other apexes n such

[karmic plank]

Yeah, id like to see trikes and allos both as new apexs at some point

[violet magnet]

official roster should all be balanced around each other
only balancing certain dinos against certain other ones just guarantees that some of them will be overpowered/underpowered if you then release all of them in a sandbox setting

[karmic plank]

Remember though that TI isn't a Moba, combat isn't the only thing that balances a Dino

Hunger, growth Time, stealth

[violet magnet]

yes
some of the dinos should be balanced to just run away from things that can kill them, others to stand their ground, etc.

[karmic plank]

Part of the idea of diets is to have areas where you expect certain herbivores to be, and by extension certain carnivores which predate on them... ATM it feels like 90% of my meals as a carnivore are other carnivores

[limber hull]

yea, fuck man, i remember working on a rework for a character at my old studio and the community went apeshit calling it OP, causing my coworkers to "panic balance" it into oblivion. There were significant flaws, mind you, but releasing a class that is balanced on release requires no less than a prophet, and overreacting to community feedback is equally dangerous

[karmic plank]

I feel ya, especially if you try to do something novel and interesting and it gets beaten to death with the nerf bat

[limber hull]

yea, we took the character somewhere unlike any other character before it. Massive changes and people didn't know how to counter it so they labelled it OP before learning counterplay

[violet magnet]

I mean yeah, but dinos shouldn't be exclusively balanced around which other dinos they'd encounter in their preferred biome. What if they spawn on the other side of the map and have to travel to the preferred biome? What if some other big predator comes into their preferred biome that isn't supposed to be there, how are they going to survive an encounter with it? Players aren't going to always stick to their dino's preferred biomes and balancing the game around the assumption that they will is just shortsighted imo

[karmic plank]

Well, spawns aren't random anymore... But that seems like it will be part of the challenge of the big carnivores - knowing where you need to go and what you need to be trying to eat

Nesting and hatching will help there too

I don't think they will ever be too rock/paper/scissors, but it should be reasonable to expect that every big scary carnivore should have a reasonable counter in herbivores

Like tenos vs deinos

[paper oriole]

An infection idea is nice but once its cleaned there's no real reason to still have the tracking effect. Infected areas could also take increased damage from subsequent attacks and be a feature usable by many animals, with some being better at it similar to fracture (examples being megalania, cerato and rugops)

If anything megalania's venom would allow it to track affected animals

[primal jewel]

Monitor lizards don't have bacterial bites, they use venom

[paper oriole]

Sure varanids use venom but infections arent a bad attachment for some attacks

Whether megalania would be a primary user of that or not

[karmic plank]

I think venom would be too hard to balance, personally. I'd love to see a titanoboa as a direct competitor to deino in the waters though

[limber hull]

probably wouldn't be tbh

titanoboa was historically a piscivore

[paper oriole]

Titanoboa would get its shit wrecked

[limber hull]

also 8 ton gator could bite the thing in half

[paper oriole]

Its basically a prehistoric elephant trunk snake more than modern boas as far as behaviour goes

If it leaves water its useless, and it eats fish and maybe juvies

[violet magnet]

troodon and dilo are still getting "venom" aren't they?

[paper oriole]

Dilo is getting hallucinogenic shit and troodn’s venom looks like it will wear people out somehow, megalania venom can easily just be an anticoagulant which would automatically make it easier to track with

[karmic plank]

Anti-stamina venom and anti-bleed-heal venom is a good idea, actually. Dunno how I feel about magic mushroom dino though.

[limber hull]

troodon probably gonna force enemies to puke, lowering hunger, thirst and stam, not to mention the damage over time

[violet magnet]

anti-stamina venom = prey can't run away and gets tired faster, also can't use stam-based attacks
anti-bleed-heal venom = prey leaves a trail that's easy to follow, has to sit eventually which gives the predator time to catch up
hallucinatory venom = prey could...run over a cliff or drown due to disorientation? Would probably be dangerous because prey would probably be panicking and attacking

[limber hull]

i believe the hallucinatory venom would also damage over time

[violet magnet]

it could probably simulate heightened adrenaline by draining stam faster imo

[hoary dawn]

i dont think dilo venom needs to do damage in of itself

[paper oriole]

The venom removing the use of stam based attacks seems to especially screw over defensive dinos, making movement more sluggish and abilities drain more stam would probably be better, or make all abilities drain some stam

[hoary dawn]

dilo bites something and then gets in cheap shots while its tripping until its dead

[violet magnet]

the prey could be flailing around and attacking randomly, though, so the dilo would risk taking a tenon kick to the face if it tried to go for another bite

[hoary dawn]

possibly

it depends on what exactly the hallucinations will be i guess

[paper oriole]

dilo will probably be a god at tearing down packs/herds at night using the hallucinations but getting them to attack eachother lol

what would this guy do

eat bugs and then die to one bite from a compy?

[outer condor]

Yi qi would thrive

[paper oriole]

yeah because nobody would bother even looking at it because it would be a useless piece in the food chain lmao

may as well add playable dragonflies if yi qi got in

[outer condor]

You could also make it a small flyer

[hoary dawn]

yi qi is a lad to be sure

[paper oriole]

it would be a waste of a server slot, at least with compy it is stuck on the ground. if admins got a spectator mode attachment like the shit they apparently have in PoT it would make more sense for that or as some ambient ai

[outer condor]

A small flying Ai

[hoary dawn]

ambient yi qis

yes

yes

[paper oriole]

changyuraptor is a bit more sizeable for a glider

[outer condor]

Nocturnal Ai yi qi

[hoary dawn]

if velo doesn't end up getting a glider niche i will happily campaign for a small arboreal glider

[paper oriole]

Just making velo a small utah would feel like a waste

Any animal small enough will apparently be able to barge into burrows too

Also, not advocating for nocturnal velo when i say this but, it wouldn’t invalidate troodon even if it was nocturnal. It shouldn’t be deprived of a unique niche in favour of being a permanent juvie utah just because somebody fears it might steal troodon's thunder

[sudden hinge]

I believe velo should share alot of stuff with Utah to an extent I think having a pounce is something they should definitely share

[urban flax]

People think there can be only one bleeder, only one venomous animal, only one scavenger and only one nocturnal animal

[paper oriole]

Yeah a pounce would make sense but it shouldn’t be a juvie utah copypaste

Yeah idk why people want fleshed out mechanics wasted by only being for one playable each

Sometimes its fine, but we can have multiple animals sharing an ability without it stealing their viability

But if velo is just mini utah that can go in burrows it is a waste of a dino

[neat mural]

i realy hope that they will fix the foliage exploit cause its killing the game

[paper oriole]

Yeah it sucks, i remember way back in the evrima development streams im pretty sure they were going on about how the foliage was immune to the graphics exploits but people still found a way lmao

In jurassic park, life finds a way. In the isle, hackers find a way

[neat mural]

die because of f hackers will make me stop playing it 😦 kind of a waist of time

[paper oriole]

Why its best to just play on freegrow servers until server lag, movement bugs, bad hitboxes and exploits are all ironed out

[neat mural]

witch serv do u knowsome ??

[paper oriole]

They usually have it in their title

[neat mural]

ho ok ^^

[paper oriole]

I forget server names easy lol

[paper oriole]

Pretty sure that ai is supposed to be hard to tell apart from players. Also the free food ai in legacy should never return

Apexes grew and thrived off that shit and no predator designed to pvp should have such an easy and reliable food source

[urban flax]

People need to stop with "The Isle can't have AI cause it's a PvP experience"
No survival game can work without AI. It never happened and will likely never happen.

I'd like it if AI was recognizable from players in some manner though, at least if they're of your own species, so that you don't try to socialize with bots

[paper oriole]

I doubt they’ll actually achieve ai that acts like normal players ever, but what we really dont need is that garbage in legacy where the game spoon fed predators

They are equipped to pvp, they dont need dino doordash

[limber hull]

No, I don't think the Isle can work without AI

however, the animal AI is an amazing compromise

[paper oriole]

The isle would feel enpty as fuck without ai considering the player count, but legacy ai should be left in the past

[limber hull]

i mean

im supporting them working on netcode over AI

let the server support more players

plus the animal AI makes it fine enough

[paper oriole]

The dryo ai rn is at least not as bad as legacy ai and shouldn’t have as much priority as fixing all their broken shit. The dude's feedback though was stating how legacy ai that spawned on hungry carnis as easy food was a good thing, which it wasnt

[limber hull]

i really think they should drill down on animals > dinos

[urban flax]

I really think they shouldn't
Modern animals are fine as prey items for smalls, but they can't do anything else

[hollow trail]

Animals are not modern necessarily

[junior shore]

bro I haven't sent something into this server for like 2 years what

[oak tapir]

Oh fuck

Wait

lmao sorry

i was in a page from like 2 years ago

[junior shore]

Ah I see
I mean alright I guess,

[oak tapir]

I was looking for an old post like an hour ago

and i forgot i was that far back lol

[karmic plank]

Agreed, there needs to be AI (at least when server population is low), but it can't just wander around 1 calling and being a free meal

The issue atm is if you have a carno on say, AU #1 - when the population dips down to under 20 (and half those are deino), no way in hell can you stay fed

so you just... don't log in

and so the population dips ever lower

same goes for deino once they remove the free fish buffet

unused human slots should be taken by AI which run around, drink, attack things they would normally eat if carnivore, and not be tucked waaaay out of the way like north beaches

[urban flax]

@woven solar They aren't removing big animals
They're making an additionnal gamemode where they aren't playable

But they'll still be there as AI

[ashen wasp]

The confusion over what Evrima is and isn’t persists, and probably will continue to until it’s mostly complete

[steep warren]

@oak tapir I did a suggestion like this a while back where hypsi would have an alt kick attack if you want to go back and see that, I like the idea btw

[oak tapir]

Ight

If a hypsi realistically fought a juvie carno it would run at it and jump and just use those Dagger like claws to cut into the carno's skull

Hypsi i feel like was a rushed dino

[limber hull]

i still find it so weird that basically teno feels like the only dino with a completed fighting kit

Hypsi, dryo and steg all feel rushed in comparison to teno

hypsi is the worst

[oak tapir]

hypsi needs an overhaul Along side dryo

[steep warren]

ye pretty much what I said in my suggestion was that hypsi would be able to kick small dinos into rocks and fracture them or when defending there tree nest it would kick the small dino and break its leg from the fall

[zinc rivet]

@limber hull @rare axle do you realize that only a single person in the entire development team is working on AI? They are not focused on AI more than players, the AI man is the only person making them. They have three other programmers working on the dinosaurs and multiplayer experience.

They want AI so that there is a constant set ecosystem of animals. Do you think it's fun to play on a full server that consists almost entirely of only two or three species and they're all only predators? That's not a good experience, and that doesn't create a sustainable ecosystem. They want an ecosystem, and it's clear relying 100% on players doesn't work. So they have AI to fill in the gaps that players may leave open. But AI won't be THE GAME, I have no idea why tf u guys think that. They're a gap filler to keep the world varied and alive

[rare axle]

They legit want to put every species as AI, we are losing a bunch of player spots just for that

[oak tapir]

Isn't that Literally Tenonto's special thing/TLDR

Like it having 4 attacks

and being the ultimate brawler

[vast mortar]

the fact that we are talking about overhauling/reworking dinos that were just recently reworked and added to the game after multiple delays isnt good right?

[zinc rivet]

How the hell does that make sense? What's stopping players from playing those species?

[rare axle]

Well for example they want to do the survival experience mostly around small species and block some creatures like rexes behind AI, it's just bad to make giant maps and fill them with AI because you can't get enough player interactions otherwise

Make a smaller map focused on players and that's it

[steep warren]

There not going to flood the map with AI

[zinc rivet]

A smaller map that is filled with only carnivores? Sounds like a shit experience to me

[rare axle]

Why would it be filled with carnivores exactly ?

[oak tapir]

tf , hypsi was a rushed dino and will probably get a rework and we're just suggesting what should hypsi get in said rework , and dryo was confirmed to get an overhaul(aka reworked) by punchpacket

[zinc rivet]

Because The Isle players just do that

go on any official server

it's almost entirely predators

[rare axle]

They don't, the only reason they did on legacy is because most herbivores were shit compared to carnivores

[zinc rivet]

yea people play herbi sometimes but theyre easily the minority

[rare axle]

That's just it

[zinc rivet]

they do??

[limber hull]

Alright, cool. Even if there's only one person working on the AI, that doesn't make it not janky, nor does it make it a good choice. The animal AI is an AMAZING idea, I am a massive fan of it. The dino AI is a janky, shittier, more frustrating opponent/free food source that replaces the position of actual players. If people don't like playing x dino, it's not because the players are stupid idiots who don't know what they're doing, it's because many herbivores are not fun and do not have the wide variety of niches that the carnis have

Carnivores have aquatic animals, flying animals, the fastest animal and an amazing pack hunter. Herbivores have an incomplete bird that doesn't grow, an untouchable fastgrow that is fun for 30 minutes till you realise how linear and basic it's gameplay is, and how little risk you have, a 5 hour grow with only one viable attack, where you could also spend those 5 hours growing the cool swimming dino, and the teno, which while well designed, is the only real herbivore worth playing, whereas carnivores offer 4 unique and enjoyable playstyles.

[zinc rivet]

whats the difference between animal ai and dinosaur ai? dinosaurs are animals too

[limber hull]

Okay

Animal AI refers to goats, crabs, other small ambient creatures

Planned for diets

[rare axle]

I don't see how it can be a good idea to make a huge map, knowing the players won't be able to fill the gaps because it's too big

So the solution is to put AI everywhere so players can actually survive of their diets, nice game design

Getting rid of the multi-player experience for some ai

[zinc rivet]

except thats not what it is, idk why u think that

[limber hull]

lmao true, map too big, make up for the map being so big by making the game a singleplayer experience with SOMETIMES the occasional enemy player

[zinc rivet]

players are always interacting, its just there are too many carnivores and not enough variation for how they are tryna design the game as an ecosystem

[steep warren]

I think all the animal AI coming to the game is Crab AI, sea turtles, rabbits, goats, chickens, boars, rabbits and I might be missing a few

[rare axle]

If you balance the herbivores correctly and make them fun players will use them

[zinc rivet]

without ai the diet system would just cause the playerbase to cave in on itself coz nobody would ever get Tenontosaurus to feed on

[limber hull]

exactly, im so hyped for that. Such a brilliant way to add AI

Not so hyped for utahs I literally cannot communicate with

lmao

[steep warren]

Ye im really happy they made animal AI

[zinc rivet]

not like u get many chances to communicate with em at the moment coz they just cannibalize

[limber hull]

not my fault you have bad other players

[rare axle]

Herbivores on legacy could only eat bushes and afk all day, and they were also in a big disadvantage compared to carnivores

If you give herbivores some interesting gameplay with diets and migration, you balance them well enough so they can stand their ground against carnivores, and you will see many players using them

You don't need AI for that

[steep warren]

I think pachy will be a game changer for the herbs, fast growing dino that is speedy and can make ur ankles go to shit in a few seconds.

[zinc rivet]

AI isn't meant to be the core tho

AI is a gap filler

[rare axle]

Also they're working on Utah ai, how does it make sense to make ai for one of the most popular creature in the game

Your argument is flawed just from that

[limber hull]

i can guarantee that AI utah will start cannibalising too

[steep warren]

[limber hull]

lmao

[steep warren]

lol if utars dont talk to me ima just ista pounce em lmao

[zinc rivet]

i already trust nobody since update 3.5

[limber hull]

i started killing AI dryos as dryo because they piss me off

useless shits

[steep warren]

Same

[limber hull]

Remove AI dryo, add some cool ambient animal AI

[zinc rivet]

why do they piss u off? they arent doin anythin

[limber hull]

Boars, goats, crabs, so fucking cool

[limber hull]

they are wastes of space. Free food for carnivores

I was hoping I met another player but no

[zinc rivet]

i dont like the idea of boars and goats they feel out of place in this world to me personally

[limber hull]

Literally a brick wall with legs

[steep warren]

I dont see the point in removing dryo AI i rarely see em

[limber hull]

this world has humans

with GUNS

[vast mortar]

Nothing against anyone that feels that way i totally get it and am not knocking anyone for feeling that way at all for the most part i agree. What im saying is that hypsi is brand new and not rushed in anyway it took them 6 months to get it out after evrima launched and dryo just before it. These were the first dino additions to evrima and the fact that they are screwed up and already need reworking is not good in anyway. The question is when do we get out of rework simulator and just start getting stuff done the right way?

[zinc rivet]

yea and it also has mutants and cannibal ogres and crazy shit

[rare axle]

AI should help the game to feel more lively by adding a variety of little creatures here and there, if they become so important they're necessary in your diets...

[zinc rivet]

but boars and goats just feel outta place

[limber hull]

boars and goats, on an island where they were raising dinos, feels out of place?

lmao

[zinc rivet]

"AI should help the game to feel more lively by adding a variety of little creatures here and there"

ya thats what AI is doing its keeping the world alive and varied, the game wont be reliant on AI

[cyan flame]

Well, we'd need bigger AI as well if we're going with just animals. Not just small animals. AI has to be there to provide food if there is no player, otherwise you're bound to starve, not due to lack of skill or smarts, but simply cause the 5 other players are in the opposite end of the map to you.

[limber hull]

it will tho

[rare axle]

They're on a modern day island, nothing weird about these animals

[zinc rivet]

🤷‍♀️ is a personal thing

[rare axle]

We are not in a dinosaur Era

[limber hull]

I really hate the fact we're replacing player interaction with angry meat piles on legs for players to farm for ez food

[steep warren]

Hypsi is awesome concept but damn it can only spit 4 times before it needs food it does 0 dmg so u cant to shit but piss ppl off with ur spit but I like the idea of tree nests but how tf r u going to defend it with 0 dmg.

[limber hull]

Once players learn how to abuse the AI's stupid natures, that will be the end of food searches

[zinc rivet]

except they're not. You come across way more players than AI

[rare axle]

AI is just attacking you like a dumbass if it detects that it is able to kill you, and run away if they can't

Amazing experience

[limber hull]

Yes, because rn they only have one kind

[zinc rivet]

spit is for blinding so u can run away and climb up a tree without getting caught

[cyan flame]

To be fair, you don't know how well they will make AI in the long term, so perhaps you shouldn't just assume a bunch when we know they want to do better than just fight or run.

[limber hull]

God forbid your hiding in a bush and it detects you lmao

Because i doubt their pathing accounts for bush

[rare axle]

Erik I've played enough game to know the limitations of such things in a open world multi-player environment

[steep warren]

Well yes but come on 4 times before u need food and once a canivore sees them a baby utar can kill it no problem

[rare axle]

I don't need to wait

I know the limits

[limber hull]

Can't wait for dev-added bush exploiters

[cyan flame]

And in any case, animal AI only is fine, as long as there are animals suited for every critters diet, which means we need a good deal more and a good deal bigger than what we have currently.

[rare axle]

And they're shitty

[zinc rivet]

if u can aim ur shot u should only needa spit once, they dont want u to spam it all over the place

[cyan flame]

Fair enough Gab, in which case, stick with stupid animals then, as long as everyone gets something that'll work just fine.

[zinc rivet]

i dont get why theyre good with animal AI that support diets, but not dino AI that support diets to me those two things feel like the same thing

[limber hull]

Dino AI is mistakable for a player

[rare axle]

AAA games nowadays are barely able to do anything good with AI, the only game that did something interesting imo is rdr 2, can you expect a single dev to reach that

[limber hull]

No one is out here playing a goat

[cyan flame]

I can see why they'd prefer the dinos always be players, so they know what they're interacting with. That much I can somewhat agree with.

[zinc rivet]

i personally like the thought of mistaking AI for a player tbh, I enjoy immersing myself in this world. I don't need to know if it's a human or a robot, i just know it's an animal just vibin in this primal world

[steep warren]

When playing Hypsi U get your spit attack witch is really fun to mess with but you get at least 4 spits then "Oh i better get food so I can spit at people 4 more times" I 100% think that hypsi spit should not cost that much food from you. Not many people play it already and making it only spit 4 times then he needs food is not fun.
Thats the suggestion I made a while back it got 109 up votes

[cyan flame]

I guess rexes eating goats would be suitable so that'll work.. :p

[zinc rivet]

like if you're getting chased by a Tyrannosaurus who cares if it's a player or a robot, run away bitch

[rare axle]

Don't worry you will notice if that's an ai in 5 seconds

And it won't be fun

[steep warren]

💯

[limber hull]

Plus, goats and boars have no expectations to meet. You don't need to make them act like a player, everyone knows they are AI. You don't need to balance out the utahs pounce or the tenos many attack abilities, because they can be added with simplicity and AI first and foremost

[rare axle]

Players are unpredictable, AI are predictable

[zinc rivet]

ehhhhh idk abt that

[steep warren]

So what r u saying, get ride of AI?

[limber hull]

AI are predictable, that is very true

[zinc rivet]

players can be pretty damn predictable

[rare axle]

No getting rid of them Augi, but just doing some animals

Not dinosaurs

[limber hull]

Also, as you said before, only one person is working on AI. I doubt that one man can make an incredible new AI never-before-seen that can replicate the behaviours of human players

[zinc rivet]

never said he was tryin to

[vast mortar]

while i do totally get what your saying i dont think animals fit

[rare axle]

That's the thing Jenna, every players are different, some can be predictable, some not

The fact is no one will act the same way

AI always will

Act the same way

Because it's programmed to do so

[limber hull]

not at all, keep animal AI, get rid of dino AI

[rare axle]

It's boring

[zinc rivet]

what if they program them to have different behaviors

[limber hull]

Then people will learn those behaviours

And exploit them

[cyan flame]

Come up with a better, more in depth list for a bunch of animals for everything and you might be able to convince the devs to focus on that. As long as it works for everyones diet, and can exist/jump in when the players jump out and all that, it'd work. Lorewise that would work too, when there's lots of dinos around, local wildlife hides. When there's fewer dinos around, local wildlife comes out and about.

[rare axle]

Jenna, do you have any multi-player open world games that have ai behaving like that ?

[limber hull]

OR OR

YOU CAN ADD ONE BEHAVIOUR FOR ANIMALS

[zinc rivet]

people exploit and abuse the game regardless

[limber hull]

because animals don't have any expectations to meet

Boars will always act like boars

[rare axle]

You all have crazy expectations for AI, expectations a single dev from the isle cannot reach

[limber hull]

They won't act like "stealth boar", "evasive boar" or "aggressive boar"

[zinc rivet]

what kinda expectations do u think i have

[limber hull]

They'll just be "boar"

[rare axle]

You can be optimistic but just think for a second

[vast mortar]

The other problem with adding animal ai is now we have to take a group of devs that have taken this long to get 6 dinos in a game to animate and track feathers/fur. How long will that all take?

[rare axle]

A single dev, doing a work some games with hundreds of millions cannot do

And you think it's doable

[zinc rivet]

i just want to see a herd of Tenontosaurus walkin about and a lone Stego in a grassland and flocks of Dryosaurus dashing thru the trees because too many ppl are playing predators

[steep warren]

All they need is running and walking animations

[limber hull]

I agree. It's a lot of pressure for these devs to make these dino AI up to par with human players when they have a much simpler option at the ready

[zinc rivet]

@rare axle what do u think im expecting my expectations arent that high, but he can make em walk around, find food/water, flee, fight, seems good enough what else could they do tbh, no reason that cant get refined over time

[cyan flame]

Make people play herbivores, now there's a challenge worse than making good AI ^^

[zinc rivet]

^^^^^^^^^^^^

[rare axle]

Even if we witnessed some miracle and Amarok managed to make an AI so good it would make AAA game companies looks like idiots, it would be so bad on the servers you old probably say goodbye to multi-player

[zinc rivet]

Gab oh my gosh

stahp

[limber hull]

Described the problem myself, the herbivores do not have nearly as much interesting niches as the carnivores

[lament pecan]

@oak tapir I'd rather suggest making the kick, alteast for the hypsi, a desperate attack, rather than SMACCer, good stun 'n' bleeding, but low damage, in effect it will make chase risky and harder, after recieving such attack, but it would also not make hypsi too strong in combat.

[zinc rivet]

I'm not asking for him to make Chappie in The Isle lmao

[limber hull]

Jenna, he's making real good points lmao

[rare axle]

Then it's bad

And just use players

[limber hull]

LITERALLY JUST MAKE ANIMAL AI

WE HAVE FISH AI

fish AI works

its dumb as fuck and thats fine

[zinc rivet]

he keeps going off about how i expect the best AI in all of gaming when i dont

[limber hull]

You aren't expecting fish to do some crazy combat shit

They're fish

[rare axle]

If you expect some brain dead ai I'd rather interact with players

That's my point

[vast mortar]

i think thats a bit easier said then done dont ya think? ive seen alot of terrible walking/running animations from them already. Not to mention did they not want ai to attack and be more dynamic?

[zinc rivet]

i dont expect that either, whys it gotta be one or the other

[rare axle]

Because it is one or the other

[zinc rivet]

it doesnt have to be?

why cant there just be ai that is good

[limber hull]

either you're expecting the AI to be bad, in which case, why do you want it, or you're expecting the AI to be good, in which case, that's very VERY tough for one man to handle

[rare axle]

Because if it's good it need to be good and not halfway through

[limber hull]

You have no idea how hard good AI is

[rare axle]

If it's halfway

It's not good

[steep warren]

Well yes it will be hard for them to add all the walking and running animations and none of animals will attack DINOSAURS

[zinc rivet]

whys it gotta be either worse than someone playing with their monitor turned off or the best AI in all of gaming to you

that sounds incredibly silly to me

[rare axle]

There's either bad ai or good ai, not "good enough"

[limber hull]

I agree

And good AI are VERY hard to make

[vast mortar]

i would venture to say they dont serve the purpose of cutting down on people sitting in a bush for 8 hours for an apex

[zinc rivet]

if its good enough then its good

[limber hull]

No

It isn't

lmao

A subpar AI has clear holes

Easy exploits

[rare axle]

I respect what Amarok is doing and i don't expect him to do God's work, I just think it's a bad game design

Focus on making small AI for little creatures like goats, boars, fishes and crabs

And stop doing dinosaur ai

[limber hull]

AI could end up with permanent bush exploits or end up being excellent easy food sources

[zinc rivet]

i think relying entirely on players to make up an ecosystem is bad game design when they all just wanna play carnivores

[limber hull]

No

[zinc rivet]

yea

[limber hull]

It's not the player's fault

Because carnivores HAVE the more interesting designs

[oak tapir]

Man wtf , Hypsi dies to baby utah , WTF IS THIS BS , it should claw baby utah's brains out , it shouldnt blind it by spitting it should blind it by gouging the utah's eyes out with those fucking daggers man

[steep warren]

Im leaving this conversation all this is about is "AI can be good!" But no only one person is working on it!" ect ect cya

[rare axle]

Players using carnivores only is legit because herbivores are bad and not interesting to play

THIS

Is a bad game design

That's it

[limber hull]

Hypsi and dryo are literally shit to play

[vast mortar]

i think more people play herbi than you give credit to

[zinc rivet]

🤷‍♀️ i have allot of fun with em

[limber hull]

Stego feels lame

[steep warren]

Hypsi NEEDS this kick attack

[limber hull]

I can guarantee the majority does not enjoy hypsi to the extent you do

[rare axle]

^

[zinc rivet]

i dont doubt people play herbivore i do see em and i play em allot but they definitely arent the majority or even half

[oak tapir]

mmm yes.., herbivores are not played yes....Sure sure , not like there is a 5 ton herbivore that beats up crocs NO NO that differently isnt in the game

[rare axle]

Im answering to Jenna saying to no one use herbs

[zinc rivet]

i know they dont its coz they wanna be carnivores and just PVP battle royale the game

[rare axle]

You're tagging the wrong person

[cyan flame]

Yes but if you compare Gmh, how many stegos to deinos? :p

[oak tapir]

I Enjoy hypsi?, I want to play it nd actually fight shit

[steep warren]

It should be able to do knockback to small dinos and smash there faces into rocks for fracteurs or kick them off there tree nests and kill them from fall dmg

[oak tapir]

Ight

[limber hull]

ffs man, you put so much faith in the AI and so little in the players

I actually am excited for pachy. You know why? Because it's the first interesting herbi I've seen in a LONG time

I REALLY want to play pachy

[oak tapir]

It should be able to decapitate juvies with those claws, It should go through a ptera's neck like a hot knife through butter with those Hooks

[zinc rivet]

because ive played a game with an experience 100% reliant on players for like 3 years now :P im tired of em, AI gimme hope for a world that actually feels alive and not just dinosaur fortnite

[cyan flame]

I mean, Jenna is right. People just want to fight, and herbis are generally less designed to go out there and hunt others down, so they get played less.

[rare axle]

Yeah but that's a MMO and it should stay one

[zinc rivet]

^^ herbivores are designed to be defensive, ppl just wanna be offensive

[vast mortar]

well i mean half would be perfect however that would require the game to have perfect balance and for herbi to be more engaging. cant blame the playerbase for the problems the devs have made

[limber hull]

Pachy and diets may actually increase interest, because starvation is just not a concern with herbivores. It's very static in gameplay, you sit on the outskirts on the map and keep eating plants till fulllgrown. Very... bleh

I am excited for more herbi stuff. Pachy seems like an excellent step in the right direction

[steep warren]

Hyspi rn is almost never played, cant do shit but blind ppl and with a kick it could be able to defend itself and its nest, it would also be cool to see like two hypsis hop up on a trikes horns and take a ride at that point its pretty much blinding turrets on a bigger herb. THATS what I think hypsi needs

[zinc rivet]

i wanna play Pachy so badlyyyyy

im rly rly hoping diets make more people play herbi

[cyan flame]

Diets won't fix that.

[limber hull]

I agree

I mean, a rework to hypsi and dryo would also be nice

[steep warren]

I think it will and pachy will be what takes more ppl over to herb side

[limber hull]

i actually like the fear factor of this game, but dryo feels no stress and hypsi feels no risk

hypsi does not care if it dies

[zinc rivet]

Hypsi is extremely casual ya

[cyan flame]

Much as you might think it's just about diets or gameplay, you're wrong on that one. Like I said, people are not playing for survival, and as such, carnivores will always be more popular. Unless they design the herbivores to be extremely offensive as well. If it turns out pachy sucks on the offense, but is god tier at defending, people will still not play it. Not until the focus becomes on just remaining alive, and dying of old age or similar, so you do not at any cost want to take damage, much less die.

[zinc rivet]

I just like it to parkour and mess with people tbh

[limber hull]

dryo simply does not die

[vast mortar]

imagine if they added in necessary migrations

[zinc rivet]

those giant rock mountains north of croc pond are super fun to explore with hypsis mad jump

[limber hull]

i want a herbi that's small enough to fear the big things, but also has self-defence

pachy is that

[zinc rivet]

ya but tbf i have never had anyone try and ambush me they just try to sprint me down from the opposite ends of open grasslands. Im sure if you actually try to get the drop on a Dryo it wouldnt be able to react in time before you land a fatal bite

stealth is a very powerful tool and nobody ever uses it

[cyan flame]

Because why hunt when you can just fight.. :p

[zinc rivet]

shame on me for being so immersed in this animal ecosystem of survival 😩 guess i should play dinosaur fortnite instead