general-feedback-discussion

[wooden rock]

(Ignore the first image)

[plain mortar]

Yeah it does look pretty cool

@wooden rock You ever seen the paleo ARK Giga model? That's a pretty cool model.

[wooden rock]

I agree, i also like this one
Its on my top 3

[plain mortar]

And also the ARK Acro is a really cool model

This Acro model is great

[wooden rock]

I agree
Ark could've been better

After they runned out of content, we could've gotten TlCs
(Offtopic, ill move)

[plain mortar]

Pretty sure they are doing quite a few

[calm kelp]

well wouldn't it be more practical if it specialized in hunting down other slow apexes instead of just obliterating anything that's not a apex and avoiding stegos and trikes simply because it can? im not salty its a genuine recommendation rex is too agile for it's size sorry if that doesn't make sense to you but it shouldn't be breaking trike ankles if its suppose to ambush

im not saying don't make it dangerous it already one shots majority of the species on the island im just saying make it more practical to hunt as it was intended instead of chasing things down not paying attention

like i said its just a opinion and what i noticed could be improved upon in rex gameplay as is its not that hard to grow if you know what your doing and once your adult its hard to keep the population controlled when it can just go for easier prey consistently. honeslty your not wrong about the speed but imo most apexes need somekind of acceleration debuff for being the size that they are

[barren zephyr]

whats wrong with copies 😭

[calm kelp]

the idea im trying to imply basically reverses that makes ambushing slightly more challenging on mid tiers cause they shouldn't just be cannon fodder for rex (speed decrease) but incentivizes walking down other apex's it will be able to eventually catch via endurance faster stamina regen and better management not speed alone. basically encourage more skilled ambushing for smaller prey and make it a endurance hunter for other apexs not exactly nerf it but rebalanced so mid tiers have a better chance at surviving if encountering one in the open vs if it was hiding and playing smarter and incentive hunting other apexs instead of just avoiding entirely

rex is very quiet for its size it doesn't have a hard time hiding in bushes by sanc or treesline and getting the jump on passing creatures most get one shotted

[delicate wadi]

I am 🐌 but the thing about this is that you don't actually need to use VULNONA if you just... learn the map. Part of having "skill" not related to combat is being oriented in the game world; play long enough and you will have a decent idea of where your species generally spawns, the major landmarks, and patrol zones even if they're not active on your compass. #general-feedback message

[floral niche]

#general-feedback message @gray crystal what is stego supposed to do then with its abysmal ability? Just gamble for its long life as deinos are an undetectable, competent silent one tap hazard in the right waters; or should it instead cheese deinos by drinking in safe spots?

[slow gorge]

Everyone should always drink in safe spots I say this as a deino main

[merry ore]

@plain turtle We already have QUEUE

[plain turtle]

not in unofficials

[floral niche]

So everyone should avoid to interact with your playable and instead cheese it in a way you can only ever prey on bad players and have little to no agency over your own survival?

There is no chance you’re a deino main with more than a few full growths if that is genuinely your take as you see everyone avoiding even the slightest possibility of engaging with you

[obsidian jetty]

sometimes I think Deino players want a singleplayer pve experience...

[slow gorge]

That's a really interesting take. Please tell me all the more things you definitely know about me. This is fascinating I'm learning so much about myself. 😍

I don't hold grudges for losing. I just want players to play well.

I'm firmly in the camp of get gud and play well. Always.

[floral niche]

I was expressing my skepticism as opposed to asserting I can read your mind

I am also in the camp of getting gud and playing well, yet that is unproductive for Deinosuchus because no amount of skill will ever make it a threat for people drinking in safe spots. It’s just an unbearable playable and so people cheese it

[slow gorge]

ok 👍

Like I do think waterways need reworking but it's not really cheesing it to play the game well and use the environment.

[vernal jacinth]

@rare patio #🐞-evrima-bug-reports-🐞 is for reporting bugs and you report hackers by following the report pin in server chat channels.

[rare patio]

I was reporting bugs to get help....I didn't report a hacker in there????

[vernal jacinth]

Yea. I’m telling you where you go to do both.

[rare patio]

Great, doesn't fix either issue. If someone can help me with it crashing, then that's what that is for and you're not an admin. If an admin has an issue, they can tell me themselves.

[vernal jacinth]

There’s some crash zones. Only way is to remove them is to report them.

[wooden agate]

a ticket system also likely wouldnt work here very well

[rare patio]

Which is what I had already done, but if someone knew of something to do to help with it...so again, your point is moot.

[wooden agate]

discords whole limit of 500 channels n all

was a problem we ran into pretty often when i was on islanders moderation team and that server is... alot smaller than this one to say the least lol

[merry ore]

Deino moment

[vernal jacinth]

They used to have one but it kept breaking and last it did it leaked personal info to the whole server.

[vernal jacinth]

Hacker reports are handled as they come as quickly as they can. Bugs are handled by the developers and admins have no power over them. So either way you have to wait. Hacker reports are only responded to if they need more info from you.

[hidden pilot]

https://tenor.com/view/truth-nuke-wojak-soyjak-soy-jak-truth-gif-10540901418861964264

[junior nymph]

@daring talon have you played ht

[vast ibex]

hi i need tp for my pj

[gray crystal]

it already has the ability to drain anything it hits of its blood

[ornate pewter]

#general-feedback message

Fog "was" Troodon's thing, giving it to Dilo, and making it better for Dilo then for Troo (in addition to clones), does not help distinguish between the two, apart from perhaps saying, Dilo now has good venom and Troodon's is bad.

If it was distinction you wanted, perhaps remove or reduce the fog on Dilo's (who still has clones) and retain the intensity for Troo, since fog is mostly what his provides (short of the extra damage which just makes him bite like a bigger beast).

But yes, it should primarily be at it's most powerful at night. Reasonable to assume it is being tested, which is why it deploys so easily on hordetest.

[vernal jacinth]

What…?

[wooden agate]

the fog was dilos first, what?

[ocean ivy]

Reposted

[vast ibex]

My character is stuck on a wall; I need a teleportation.

[meager river]

How to counter Allo's Pin like, I couldn't do anything

[covert sinew]

HACKER US6

[limber hull]

i'd agree with you if prime rex didn't exist

because i think rex is well designed and balanced for most of the time but prime completely destroys that with the extra speed, damage and weight

nerf the prime speed, not rex's overall speed

[limber hull]

who

[blissful atlas]

@covert sinew are they your friend? you can send them the ban appeal form found in #rules-and-info

[limber hull]

every speed is "only temporary" in this game, it can be temporary and still unfair

rex prime is extremely easy to reach, if you don't manage it, i'm genuinely shocked

the gift can be being powerful and massive, you don't also need to immediately screw over dibbles, kentros and other creatures

allo and cera aren't faster as primes and they're still more than powerful and competent

they aren't rare though, and having a "rare instant death" isn't fun

see, Beast of Bermuda's thunder bolt

[rare fractal]

Right so if it’s so temporary for Rex to have uncounterable levels of speed then clearly it’s a completely redundant reward that it probably shouldn’t have because it only makes the game significantly less playable for everyone else on the server

Like you said, peak prime is temporary. The only speed that actually matters for balancing playables long term is decayed prime speed, which Rex completely clears them in. Also Rex has an extremely forgiving stamina economy so it’s not like being 1-2kmh faster than it once it’s decayed affords you a reliable way of escaping it, it’ll just trot, and it’ll have its stam back way before you do whilst covering the ground between you

How can someone be bad at the game for dying to an animal faster than them, with better stamina, that they cannot fight, that can track them, and one shots them once that gap is closed

I mean, it can and does, I do it all the time lol

Because it’s really unsatisfying as a Rex player to be given so many handouts

And a Rex can just mix pack with allos or dilos to keep the herd from escaping it, you never balance around mix grouping because anyone can do it

Both are equally imbalanced, they’re not intended playstyles

[limber hull]

devs can fix mixpacking but not elders being insanely broken besides cera or allo

[rare fractal]

They’re literally, the exact same thing. The only difference is the diet of the animal. People don’t mix group because of immersion they mix group for the meta advantage

[limber hull]

awarding the "instant win medal" is so boring

a power boost, i agree with, but the speed boost turns it from a reward to basically "cool you win"

[rare fractal]

It’s also just really boring not to have to try anymore

[limber hull]

like the game should still require the rex to play the actual game, prime or not

[untold barn]

this game is much more fun when u dont care/ learn every gimmick as its placed.....take note fellas xx

[limber hull]

"nothing special"

if speed is the only thing that makes you special, then you're not special

we're just forgetting the 12+ ton weight and additional damage?

[rare fractal]

If you think a 27kmh decayed prime Rex is useless I have no idea what game you’re playing

You still demolish every adversary you face and can ambush catch most playable with minimal effort

4 playable who at their full growth are just fodderized by the existence of 1 is really bad

[untold barn]

yall expect too much....balance..in a (dinosaur) survival game tht has stated many times they dont care/nor are taking a direction in the name of (balancing)

[limber hull]

absolutely baffling take when this game actively balances its mechanics in response to feedback, hence, #balance-feedback

[rare fractal]

What do you think this channel is for #balance-feedback

[limber hull]

it sounds like an excuse to justify having an overpowered creature because "the game isn't meant to be balanced", but if the tables are turned, you'd throw a conniption

[untold barn]

its not all about balance xDD

[rare fractal]

What’s even motivating people to play an animal that if a chance encounter with the animal that completely invalidates occurs…they can’t play the game anymore

[limber hull]

it isn't "all about balance", no, but the game shouldn't leave these glaring weakpoints just in the balance

[rare fractal]

Balance is important because a well balanced game respects the time investment of the players who are playing the game, by giving them the necessary capability to ensure their success if they’re good enough

You’re rewarded for a long grow with an animal that is immortal to 90% of the roster because it’s so large it cannot die, not the speed to deny viability to a significant portion of the playerbase

[untold barn]

tis feedback feels like its based of people who think there full grown prime dilo should have any chance against a full grown rex xD like wutt, u r meant to run! not feel like the game shoulod be balanced so u have a fighting chance

[limber hull]

troodon is very vulnerable as a baby too, it should be 450kg as an prime elder to compensate

except that'd be really unfun for everyone

[limber hull]

i absolutely do not want a full prime dilo to have a chance against a prime rex, you're making stuff up

i want a full prime rex to just be escapable, i still want it to be a monstrous powerhouse

[rare fractal]

Also why doesn’t this apply to trike or stego, shouldn’t they also be far faster than they need to be for reaching prime?

[untold barn]

@rare fractalwrong, ive seen many a rex die due 2 well played ceras, even seen a pack of troodons take out rex XD and its yout fault for letting tht rex see u isnt it? y not hide better or yet keep a distance when u hear the thuds of those big ahh hoofrers

[limber hull]

time to grow doesn't justify invalidate other's growtimes

[untold barn]

@rare fractal wtf my bad i dunno y u are tagged xD

[limber hull]

first of all, that's a garbage rex if it's dying to two ceras, but second of all, no one is advocating for that to consistently happen

[rare fractal]

Rex REALLY isn’t that loud over distance, and it’s WAY easier to hide that entire animal than most people think

[limber hull]

if your 12 ton rex is losing to stegos which it can literally just pin, i'm sorry, you don't deserve that rex

[untold barn]

@limber hull never said how many ceras but there was loke 4 i think if i remember correctly

[urban flax]

I don't get how people end up defending something being OVERpowered

It's literally in the name

Over means too much. It can be powerful, it can be super-powerful, but overpowered literally means it's too much

[rare fractal]

I’d go as far as to say that any Rex player who dies to anything but cannibalism or bugs absolutely deserved to lose that grow

[untold barn]

@rare fractal i get tht but some r cocky and just sprint, talk ect ect, so its not all tht hard either

[limber hull]

rex should be STRONG, no argument there, but it can be strong without being insufferable

reduce the speed, keep the power, it should be a monster in combat

[urban flax]

Rexes will have food even if they're very slow
Because Isle players can't stand the idea of NOT trying to fight something so players will just throw themselves into their mouths

Or else they could learn to ambush

[untold barn]

@urban flax i play solo and tbh i dont see the issue. i find them easy to avoid unless ones really well hidden waiting for the ambush, and i stay outa delta if i dnt wanna deal with mixpackers

[urban flax]

Unless they're faster than you ig

In which case if you're avoiding them it only means they let you

[limber hull]

you will never see me advocate to reduce prime rex's power or weight, because prime rex should be, as you said, a reward which grants you incredible power

but having speed simply be equal to adults would do wonders for making the animal less hated and more a part of the ecosystem, rather than being the entirety of it

[rare fractal]

Cannibalism as a mutation also really has to go

[untold barn]

@urban flax they let me....uhmm yh ok sure, again not hard to avoid imo

[steady cosmos]

@limber hull read what I wrote before voting fine sir

[urban flax]

It's not hard to understand
If something that is faster, stronger and more endurant than you sees you but doesn't kill you, it means they didn't want to kill you

[steady cosmos]

Evil instant voter

[untold barn]

@urban flax your whole point is based off 1 scenario, very narrow minded tbh man

[steady cosmos]

<@&933486433342222376>

[urban flax]

1 scenario ? You mean the 1 scenario that applies to nearly half the roster against a prime rex ?

[steady cosmos]

Also you why do you instantly downvote

[urban flax]

Because I don't like your idea

[steady cosmos]

What about it might I ask
I doubt you've had time to read it while typing here

[untold barn]

as a solo who doesnt have these issues i guess im just the most luckiest dino in the whole popped out server who has the most survival sense luck

[rare fractal]

Growing a Rex is staggeringly easier than you think it is

It’s funny how the populations almost perfectly reflect the state of playable viability

[steady cosmos]

Or just what players want to play

[urban flax]

I read it

Forcing stress as a mechanic onto players is admitting failure as a horror game (which The Isle is supposed to be)

Preventing players from doing what their creature is capable of for the sake of "realism" is admitting failure at creating a balanced environment

Preventing players for making their own choices despite the fact the game lore clearly implies the dinosaurs don't act natural is admitting failure at making a game at all

[rare fractal]

As someone who plays on this server specifically, the amount of times I’ve seen 5 prime Rexes in the same field as eachother is too funny to bother counting

[untold barn]

fr

[steady cosmos]

No

You didnt read it so gonna ignore that second part

You definitely didnt read it
Thank you for instantly negative reviewing

[steady cosmos]

Glad the feedback channel is worth discussing in when people genuinely dont read before instantly negative reviewing an idea

[urban flax]

You're welcome then

[rare fractal]

It’s very slightly faster than normal.

The length of a grow doesn’t equate to how hard that grow is. A 10 hour grow and a 12 hour grow on the same animal isn’t any harder than eachother, it just takes longer

[limber hull]

i did, i didn't like it

i dont glaze trike lmao, i just want to play anything other than rex

[rare fractal]

I want Rex to be slower because I want Rex to be more fun.

I mostly play Rex

[urban flax]

No matter what Dondi or anyone said, if there's a dino that can kill you with no possible way of surviving the encounter it's not balanced

Even if it's rare
There's no justifying that

[limber hull]

the punishment for continuing to fight a carno as a pachy should be the risk of death, not a system that actively punishes you for active defense

[steady cosmos]

But anyways I'm gonna debunk your terrible use of buzzwords @urban flax
"Preventing players from doing what their creature is capable of"
I explicity want to make the game immersive, and my idea for pachy is aggression within immersion
You clearly did not read what I wrote in this regard, and that is terrible.

"admitting failure at creating a balanced environment"
Has nothing to do with what I put here as an idea, "balance" is a pvp term for a fighting game

"Preventing players for making their own choices"
Again, you did not read what I wrote.

[limber hull]

in terms of immersion, why is a pachy stressed when it sees its opponent literally crippled?

[untold barn]

@urban flax so again, u think if a rex was hiding very well and catches a dilo off guard it should have a fighting chance?

[steady cosmos]

Pachy should not be murdering things left and right
And did you even read what I wrote

__ To start this wont be a limiter on killing things necessarily __ is literally one of the first things I wrote

[limber hull]

i did.

and pachy has the limiting factor of poor actual damage output, speed and needing to actually fracture in the first place

if its murdering things left and right, that's reflective on the things its murdering

and if you think pachy is too fast, i'd blame the prime elder for that, which as i've mentioned before, i believe primes in general are the problem there, and not the animals who have them

[steady cosmos]

This is a terrible understanding of how to make an environment work and also how animals work

[limber hull]

and arbitrarily telling the player how they should be feeling when they have every advantage is far more realistic?

[steady cosmos]

Oh no not arbitrary, again, you did not read

[limber hull]

imagine getting your muscles locked up because you are winning a fight, and the game decides it's not your place to win it

[steady cosmos]

This isnt even really worth a discussion because you were the first to instantly put a negative review without even reading what I wrote and are continuing your own negative understanding of what I wrote based off a glance

[rare fractal]

Why would you assume that’s the case

[limber hull]

right, so the idea that i can read quickly is alien and rather we're going with the idea that i just hate you specifically for no reason

[steady cosmos]

because that very literally was the case and still is

[rare fractal]

It wasn’t tho, and still isn’t

[steady cosmos]

I watched them instantly put an x on mine without my post being up for more than 5 seconds
Proof enough and quite a proof of terrible character

[urban flax]

no

[limber hull]

alright\

[steady cosmos]

never suggested that, why would you say that in specific

[limber hull]

i have undownvoted your message. i will read the entire thing a third time, and then a fourth time, then reapply my vote accordingly

if it is negative, that is because i disagreed with the entirety

[steady cosmos]

Its negative because you glossed over it and instantly made a review and defended with half baked misinformed critique

[urban flax]

People can't handle disagreement smh

[steady cosmos]

If it were specific disagreements about things I actually wrote, yes I would

[untold barn]

@urban flax what a way to defend your previous statement before i made tht comment

[limber hull]

I understand you believe that, so I want to prove it is false by rereading appropriately

[steady cosmos]

thats good, but you've already tarnished your image by doing what you did, so not really gonna change anything

Was a very unhealthy way to go about critiquing an idea for both of you and it kinda just sucks to see

[wooden agate]

https://tenor.com/view/dino-sim-dinosaur-dinosaur-simulator-roblox-scarred-giga-gif-17725128

[untold barn]

@urban flax u disagree with the litteral devs decision what do you mean?? xDDD

u think its meant to be a horror game xD ass u stated

[urban flax]

Yes I do
I'm allowed to disagree with a bad decision, no matter who took it

[untold barn]

but its there dream? not yours mate

[rare fractal]

Again what do you believe the purpose of feedback channels is for

[steady cosmos]

Speaking of, what did you think was bad about my idea
If its the same "hinders player choice" or "immersion = bad" or "incentivizing players to play immersively is just a crutch for bad balance" then thats sad too

[untold barn]

feedback doesnt mean u are right, as im feedbacking rn

[rare fractal]

The devs have disagreed with their own prior choices as well, teno used to have fracture, Ptera used to deal as much damage as Omni does now, carno used to weigh substantially more than it used to, the list goes on

[urban flax]

I mean Dondi is a nice guy, but if he thinks having rex destroy the rest of the entire roster is fine, he's mistaken.
And he'll realize his mistake sooner or later because he doesn't want his game to be lame.

[untold barn]

just having general convo with yall xD

this is the feedback channel right?

[rare fractal]

The feedback is intended for the developers to read, which they do, that’s why they made these channels

[steady cosmos]

Leg bash clearly, common rex tactic

[untold barn]

@urban flax again i feel you, but i heavily feel like there are ways to avoid

[steady cosmos]

I think I'm gonna make an infographic on my idea to convey through visual means what my idea is about

[untold barn]

y let alone who asked? genuinly y state this? xD

i never asked or complained about people sharing there feedback in this channel

shall have u know my good sir i stumbled apon this conversation and thought id share some (feedback) is all

this is general-feedback-discussion not (general-feedback) channel fyi

this guy gets it!

[wind mesa]

Upvoted :D

[urban flax]

That's where you're wrong
Nothing should be OP especially in a PvP multiplayer game

It's like, basic game design

[untold barn]

path of titans did this and thats y many have left, not every game should hold your hand and i feel like the isle had done a good job of that so far

but i guess its just each to there own really

[urban flax]

You're misunderstanding my point.

🤣

[untold barn]

absolutely not i do understand, i just dont agree

and thats coming from a solo with with a solid understanding of the game, i dont have these issues you speak of, despite skill differences and i just dnt agree is all

[urban flax]

I'm gonna quote an actually good game which explains it very well :

“So one of the cornerstones [of Gungeon] was, I want to soften it from Rogue, for sure. But I did not want to get to a point where if you're playing a run after 100 hours in the game, you don't feel like you earned it. I also wanted to, as much as possible, telegraph all death pretty strongly, make it feel like you saw it coming and you can kind of in your head go, ‘If I had only done X.’”

[rare fractal]

Rex is only vulnerable for the first hour and a half of its growth when its small and slow, then it becomes faster than carno and only slows down once its far larger than carno, at that point you can beat anything you can’t run from rather handily

[urban flax]

Focus on the last sentence

[final silo]

im not saying its low, im saying its too low in a fight against rex, and even tho u can win you still need too many combos imo(def not saying ts cause im bad at trike and idk what im talking abt)

[rare fractal]

Ok genuine question, have you grown a Rex before

[untold barn]

i wouldnt say ez unless u growing late with 10 others online XD but it could be smooth

[limber hull]

again, you're implying i didn't read it, while i guarantee you i did when i initially downvoted, but sure, i tarnished my image

im sorry for reading too fast, i suppose

[rare fractal]

The speedy stage of Rexes growth lasts over 2 hours and continues to retain a decently high speed up into fresh adulthood, where at which point it can just beat anything in a fight it can’t otherwise run from quite easily unless it’s grossly outnumbered….

Or if it runs into a prime Rex because their speed is really overtuned lol

You’re never in any real danger unless you’re simply not paying any attention to what’s around you

[untold barn]

well put i must say, but at this point idk xD yall make some valid point but as i said at the end of the day u can please some but dissapoint others, we cant have 1 without the other unfortunately

[steady cosmos]

Not even worth considering you reading it too fast when you instantly put up a downvote

[rare fractal]

So first of all, for a 5-6 tons fresh adult with fracture damage and the ability to instant kill anything half your size yeah that’s decently fast.
Also if even a 4 ton Rex loses to a prime elder allo that’s legitimately embarrassing

And allo is SUPER overtuned on top of that

[steady cosmos]

Finished the infographic but wont be able to post it in the feedback channel until later

[rare fractal]

It does if you as a Rex only bite with no other inputs

That’s why you knock it over with bash, crush to break its head, now it does half damage. It’s even worse for it if the allo gets a leg break, then you just get to take free passes through it till it dies

Like why on earth would you face tank the creature that can face tank prime Maia when you could otherwise stun and cripple it

[steady cosmos]

@limber hull @urban flax @wooden agate 🫵

[urban flax]

No I wonder what does the system actually incentivizes or prevents

[steady cosmos]

At the higher end of doing things wrong the negative incentives would become significantly more prominent

[urban flax]

It looks like it's just putting decision-making in the hands of the game rather than the player themselves

And it doesn't feel very organic either

It's just an extra system that adds complexity but doesn't seem to do much

[steady cosmos]

The price players pay for intruding on immersion by making terrible decisions

[urban flax]

If a player can make terrible decisions without that system, they'd still take terrible decisions with it

[steady cosmos]

I addressed this very clearly in the bottom left

[urban flax]

Doesn't change my point

[steady cosmos]

I disagree about it feeling organic, also a terrible use of a buzzword, immersion suits better, and it definitely is immersive.
Complexity isnt an issue and is a terrible excuse for a critique

[urban flax]

Unless you forcefully take control away from them players will keep making bad decisions

[urban flax]

Organic is a buzzword now ?

I don't think making the character you control think in your stead is particularly immersive, no

[steady cosmos]

Your point is plain and requires no addressing, players will simply do what players will do, this is why a system that can guide immersive gameplay is necessary.

[urban flax]

I don't think it's necessary
Besides, I don't think it will guide immersive gameplay

It aims to do that, but likely won't achieve it

[steady cosmos]

This is not at all a good representation of what I said.

[steady cosmos]

You are entitled to that opinion.
Whats underneath isnt an opinion but a rather terrible excuse for a critique.

[rare fractal]

You absolutely can stun an allo with headbutt at 4 tons. You don’t knock it entirely over but you do stun it. Then you crush its face, it now does half damage, or you crush its leg, it can’t run, you win. If it doesn’t work the first time just do it a second time and it will.

It’s honestly quite easy to do

[final silo]

@hard grail why should that combo be removed? trike is already hard to get good at so why should it be harder?

[urban flax]

The reason players don't act "immersive" is not because they don't know how to do it, it's because they don't care about it.

If you implement a system that tries to force them into it, they will see it as a mechanic they need to understand so they can take the best advantage out of it, and most likely abuse it

Just like with the elder system, stress system in BoB and even mutations

[steady cosmos]

Not much you can do with logic like this.
I want immersion and will make ideas to continue this agenda.

[rare fractal]

Immersion needs to correspond with actions players actually want to take

[urban flax]

The fact you care about immersion so much is nice and commendable
But this community has proven again and again they're not on the same page as you

[steady cosmos]

Dont type anymore to elaborate.
Trust me.

What you just said is fully supportive of giving players a guidance system.

[urban flax]

If what you really want is incentivize players to not fight for the death expanding on existing systems could do the job just as well, if not better

[rare fractal]

No it’s supportive of giving players more to do than fight eachother constantly

[steady cosmos]

There are no existing systems to support this.
I dont see how you can say these things.

[final silo]

calm down man he didnt insult u

[steady cosmos]

Which my idea fully encapsulates by making winning combat as herbivores less deadly in general.

[urban flax]

The wounded debuff does exactly that
The locked health system, was meant to do it too but didn't really work it
The entirety of the stamina rework that happened years ago was also done to achieve this and somewhat worked

[steady cosmos]

I dont see what about my saying this implies I'm not calm, but you percieve it how you want.

[final silo]

https://tenor.com/view/joke-not-getting-the-joke-flew-over-your-head-stickman-gif-16997031

[steady cosmos]

The wounded debuff is plain death in most cases, players will choose to fight until death normally anyways
Mentioning something that already failed isnt good
Stamina is less an incentive and more just a stat that dictates who loses or wins

[urban flax]

So if all that failed, what makes you think your proposed solution (which is ALSO a debuff for people who fight for too long, just like stamina and the wounded debuff) would work ?

[steady cosmos]

If you incentivise less PVP driven mindsets by punishing or rewarding in specific instances it significantly improves immersive potential

[steady cosmos]

No point in even having this question on my mind, I think it will fix it plainly, and all of your critique has been away from what I suggested.

[urban flax]

I see

[steady cosmos]

Generally, to attain immersion one needs to know what their creatures want, in combat, out of it.
The Isle currently has no detailed systems for this barring the simple will to survive to prime.
A guidance system that isnt just a tutorial, but rather your creature itself screaming at you that it no longer wants to fight, is better.
It will also allow more survival, and more of the gameplay loop will be respected.

Barring of course, the diets system, which is extremely basic.
Even the prime requirements show no visuals or signs in this regard, which is explicitly not good

But as my suggestion states, starting with visually interesting stress related problems midway through combat to denote that you should leave combat, and then the start of debuffs not too long after, which will ramp up.
Statistics and debuff strength can vary depending on how you want the dinos to play, which is why I even introduced an aggression system to go along with the stress system.

[urban flax]

I forgot to mention the blood screens
That's what they're trying to do as well

But eh

[steady cosmos]

the blood screens are not incentives, and players use them as health bars in a PVP sense

Generally, and all around, none of what you have said is an incentive to immersion or organic gameplay
People use the things you've stated, whether observed as an enemy, or as the player, for PVP sense

[urban flax]

The blood screens are purposefully made over-dramatic to encourage players to retreat from a fight

[steady cosmos]

Focusing on the intended versus the actual is only supporting my point

[urban flax]

But for whatever reason they would definitely not do the same with a stress system ^^

[steady cosmos]

Well, put simply, the stress system wouldnt be a healthbar or something obvious that could denote pvp capability.
It would specifically guide you away from combat after it has gone on either too long or gotten too dangerous.

Its a bit unfair to run it back and compare a system dedicated to guiding immersive engagements to what people plainly use as a denotion of their dinosaurs health.

[urban flax]

So it would do nothing ?

How do you disencourage people from fighting without affecting their fighting capabilities ?

[steady cosmos]

I'm not going to answer this again.

Its not my problem if you dont wish to read or properly interpret what I post, and its incredibly disheartening.

[urban flax]

Fine
At least you have a lot of trust in your own ideas, that's a good thing

[steady cosmos]

So far you've argued against my idea with things that are entirely irrelevant to the addition of the system:

Putting decision making in the hands of the game
No.
Not a proper incentive
It very much could be.
Comparison between already present "incentives"
Those of which do exist but are not at all used properly, lending credence to a necessary change in how players are guided to immersion.

This is the whole reason why a feedback is made, we dont make excuses like these to make a feedback less interesting, we evolve it into something that has potential of working.

[urban flax]

You want to "gently guide players away from combat"
Which is honestly better than asking for a stress system that outright kills them

The thing is, that's not gonna happen. You cannot gently guide players away from combat. And that is for many reasons, including the most obvious one : combat isn't gentle.

[steady cosmos]

Whether it is gentle or not depends on how you balance the idea and its systems.
And what you are would also change this.
This is why in the infographic of the idea I depicted pachycephalosaurus and made it known how I see an immersive pachycephalosaurus playing.
A creature that wants to break its enemy and run, rather than the aforementioned video of a pachy completely decimating a carno because it got one legbreak.
And again, you could argue that stat balances are the best opportunity to fix this, but I will plainly disagree, as pachys defensive capability is nice where it sits currently.

You can make it sound gentle to yourself and refute my idea as much as you want and it wont change the fact that its an idea that can be modified

[urban flax]

As I said, if that pachy CAN kill the carno, it will do it.

So you won't achieve anything unless you actually make the pachy unable to get the kill (or ridiculously hard)

But that's a problem on its own and you know it

[final silo]

dont fight a trike head on then

[steady cosmos]

I actually said this in my image, and mentioned it to you aswell.

[dusky bluff]

I hate this game. Four times today I've lost my dino because I have an organ stuck in its mouth, so I have to log out and get wrecked while I'm trying to come back.

[final silo]

yeah like i wouldnt run into a spear wall either so why should a rex?

[odd forum]

#general-feedback message @zenith pagoda maybe because it’s the only way allo can fight 2 ceras? Reduce allo’s bite speed will make it lose to 2 ceras every fight(if everyone 88% prime or 75% adults)

[urban flax]

This is not explaining anything
Stating you're aware of the problem doesn't mean your solution works against it

Also sometimes you don't really have a choice but to fight, even if you're extremely unlikely to win

[steady cosmos]

This is a gross misunderstanding of whats being said in this blue text.
It is the epitome of balance, and has been made purposefully vague because balance is never easy to achieve.

[steady cosmos]

I dont need to tell you that you can add to my idea to fix this problem, even though the solution is obvious.

[final silo]

thats how it should be btw, trike is slower and takes longer to grow iirc

[urban flax]

I think you're taking the problem in reverse

You should look for a way to encourage players to not fight, rather than discourage them from fighting

Fighting is currently the single most interesting thing to do in the game, discouraging it is straight up making the game less interesting

[steady cosmos]

That solution of which is that creatures that cannot run and must fight will be given the ability to do so, even to near death should it be necessary.

[final silo]

you can just run away from it, thats its whole balance

[steady cosmos]

I'm going to ignore that first sentence.

The second sentence only affirms the above.

I never said to discourage a scrap between creatures.

Predators exist to hunt, and will be capable of doing so without issues.
You are severely misinterpreting my idea out of some sense to refute it and it bothers me.

I would be understanding if you were trying to build upon my idea but instead you're finding excuses for it to not exist and making terribly chosen statements.

[final silo]

trikes can just combo eachother, theres no better balance than 2 of the same species

and i mean if a trike is that good and can win a 2v1 just let em be atp

i did and i still do want it to keep more of its biteforce at 100

trike needs a lower skill floor than it has rn, rex is just run in and crush but with trike u gotta lowk lock in

rex wins fights by bone breaking its opponents, its damage doesnt matter as much

top 10 respect moments?

[urban flax]

Then you should probably rewrite your suggestion because discouraging fights is very clearly what it seems you're asking for

[steady cosmos]

Sadly what you said is a wraparound statement
"You should look for a way to encourage players to not fight, rather than discourage them from fighting"
This, is plain ragebait.

[final silo]

yeah like ur better than most trikes ive seen, but even very bad rexes can kill very bad trikes

yeah i AM glazing trike, so what u gonna do now

[urban flax]

Don't tell me you can't tell the difference between encouraging and discouraging ?

[steady cosmos]

I'm not going to fall for an attempt at ragebait whatsoever.
Its kinda sad that you're doing this now.

[final silo]

btw yeah it should, those horns do not disappear at 100

basically but also trike needs a lower skill floor, similar to rex, or raise rex skill floor so ppl need to know what theyre doing to play rex

[steady cosmos]

Whether intentional or not, encouraging players not to fight and discouraging players to fight is the same thing.
And discussing with such a statement is not going to add anything.

My experience discussing something I think is a good idea in here has been quite terrible as a result of people who heed no mind to my words and simply oppose it with all their might.
I did ask for an explanation as to why you thought it was bad but I didnt expect it would devolve this far.

Dont think I'll ever be posting a serious idea here ever again past this one and will instead discuss informally in the isle discussion

[final silo]

it isnt tho, encouraging players to not fight is done by implementing better nesting mechanics, stuff to do outside of fighting in general while discouraging fighting is done by implementing stuff like debuffs after fights

i think rex v trike should be a 50/50 if rex becomes harder to play or smth

[steady cosmos]

Plain and simple, this is untrue.
Not only would that not have the intended effect you say, it would not encourage survival
And also I explicitly dont want people to not fight.

I dont know if you've seen my infographic in full but even if you have, my idea centers around making immersive visually interesting ways to tell people what they're doing wrong while playing their dinosaur, to which would lead to greater problems if you continue to pursue the wrong path to its entirety.

It does not discourage fighting, or encourage not fighting, which are the same thing.
It encourages fighting and fleeing in a particular manner, and not even with that much of a control over things at least to start.
Again, I made 2 systems:
Aggression
Stress

Aggression can be applied to any situation where stress would cause problems, it negates it, and given more interest can even buff your creature.

Stress can be used in a variety of situations, around too many corpses, fighting too long as a creature that definitely isnt made for it, you can think up ideas where stress will be prominent.

It allows for a visual representation of what you're doing wrong in the game.
Players can choose to ignore it, and depending on what or how far it is the effects might only ever stay visual.
I think it would serve as an amazing guideline, and make the game more visually interesting during combat aswell.

[proud escarp]

#general-feedback message
my current troodon gameplay is : spawn in -> smell -> keep smelling -> no food -> head sanc -> no food? -> !slay (suicide cmd) and retry elsewhere

it's better to retry elsewhere than keep running with a 12km looking for a corpse that may or may not be diet and hit infertility along the way

[ornate pewter]

#general-feedback message

Chickens are usually doable with a few factors.

Stealth works well on them, you can easily ambush them, the aggressive ones come to you, and they can be tracked easily once you get a hit on them, resetting to an unaware state after gaining some distance.

Also, it isn't long into your growth that you can usually catch them.

In the past, I've memorized their common spawn locations, and after determining my own position, ran to the nearest immediately, usually keeping an eye out for crabs if near the beach.

[proud escarp]

it shouldn't be this hard for no reason, i get 4 hits on chicken and then they zoom right before me, i can track them but they can sense me again while im running trying to catch up to their tracks
at that point it's im 20-10% hunger, is it worth chasing? or heading to sanc and look for a corpse?

hopefully i can find a stuck deer in my next life...

so if you keep pouncing them, they don't move?

but at that point, you're probably faster than the chicken anyways, i still think if you have to do all that to get a kill and exploit an animation loop then the game is doing something wrong
even baby potatos and stegos outrun us

I'll still use your strat tho, thank you!

I'm not playing hordetest so i'm not sure it was justified all these months (+year)...i have no idea why they nerfed it in the first place, fresh troodons were not something that fills up anyone's belly, running was all you can do as a juvi troo

i do pvp too but it pains me so much everytime i have to respawn lol bc i know it will be a hit or miss xD

[steady cosmos]

Updated the infographics wording a bit and added some more visual denotions of whats going on

[proud escarp]

🫂 TY

[steady cosmos]

evil troodon gaming

I'm enjoying making this, more updates to the words to convey what I mean better, as well as visual changes

[steady cosmos]

Gonna post this tomorrow since I'm ultra tired and dont want to wait an hour for the post....

[slow gorge]

No this immediately sounds goofy. Carnos are small and light and picked the wrong fight if they take on a pachy. Irl deer stomp the heck out of predators even killing them, elephants are known to murk predatory animals every chance they get. Horses gladly trample failed carnivores to death. Chickens will rip snakes to pieces. Hamsters will disembowel one another and kill any offspring. The win is often less stressful knowing it can never come back to haunt you. That doesn't feel immersive at all

[zenith pagoda]

wow, bc allo dies against 2 ceras we should give the almost 200 dmg dealing animal a stupidly fast bite speed...

[odd forum]

then what it should do? less stam, less speed, less swim speed

[cerulean kelp]

@iron jay That is a common issue I've had a ton. I don't think it's to do with troodon, but latching onto someone with pounce in general, so it happens with omni too. On their side of the screen u aren't even on them yet and only starting to pounce, possibly a ping issue that needs to be fixed big time.

[zenith pagoda]

just because dibble lets say, dies against 3 ceratos, doesnt mean it should be buffed till its broken. And its not like allo cant win against 2 ceras, you have the ability to pinslop them, or just alt attack and kill them, it doesnt need its crazy bite speed to win.

[urban flax]

You can't balance the game in 1 VS Many

Rex dies against 5 allos despite being unable to escape them, doesn't mean it needs a buff

[zenith pagoda]

this

[odd forum]

allo CANT pinslop cera, 3700 dont pinslop 1950, allos pinslop works only for >50% of his weight. Alt attacks IS MOST STUPID thing you can do against ceras, who knows how to play

[odd forum]

this is absurd ANYWAYS, even devs said, that allo SHOULD win 2 ceras

[zenith pagoda]

Ive played allo a lot, its the easiest playable in the game, alt attack DOES work against ceratos, im not sure what types of ceras youve been encountering, btw im talking about the HATCHET bite attack.

[zenith pagoda]

it does.

[narrow cypress]

to add something more , allos packs limits is 3 , cera is 5 , allo wins 1 vs 1 of course but cera has a big advantage

[odd forum]

well, then you have never encountered strong cera players

[odd forum]

in this type of fight cera also gonna win(body buff after first allo dies)

[zenith pagoda]

Are we seriously debating this? Allosaurus is the easiest, most unskilled dinosaur in the game, its grapple already makes it easy as hell, the fact it has an incredibly fast bite attack doesnt help. It doesnt matter if it "dies against 2 ceras" its not meant to take down more than 3 and the fact that it can scares me.

[narrow cypress]

ofc a pack of 5 ceras can easily reduce a lot the allos population because i have done and anyone who was played a little since december can says you the same

[narrow cypress]

the bite should be nerfed , but the problem is that Devs hasnt done a good job in allos kit , they give all power to pounce , when irl sholdnt be

[odd forum]

it's can be considered easy, but its not strong

[zenith pagoda]

omg

[narrow cypress]

clawsipe should have more importance and they need to rework it to do allo more skilled

[odd forum]

dont change theme of discussion xD. allo not strong

[odd forum]

in my dreams its true...

[zenith pagoda]

ur joking right? Tell me how allo is not strong at all.

[odd forum]

do you play any pvp server?

[zenith pagoda]

yep

[odd forum]

oasis?

[zenith pagoda]

yeah

[odd forum]

can we pvp allo vs some playbles in 3 minutes?

[zenith pagoda]

im in ht branch rn

[odd forum]

well, if you want, then tell me when you can

[zenith pagoda]

ok

[steady cosmos]

No, where in this infographic does it make you think this?

[normal jasper]

allo is one of the worst dinosaurs in the game tbh

something needs to be done about it, it just feels so bad playing it

[cerulean jolt]

uhh.. no

[steady cosmos]

What do you expect my response to this to be?
Thank you for sharing a relatively basic opinion on it

[visual edge]

bad in what way

[cerulean jolt]

i mean you want to punish prey for making sure the predator stays down

[steady cosmos]

I will include and address this in my updated feedback post so you dont get the wrong idea again.

[visual edge]

Unless the predator failing to hunt leaves permanent injuries im fine with that, but until we get that IF we get that, prey fully killing predator is the only way they can be sure the predator wont try to track them down again

[steady cosmos]

I have to let you know unfortunately the island is full of predators.

[visual edge]

Exact same one tho coming back and trying is stupid, either prey fully kills it or they make it so permanant injuries is a thing

[steady cosmos]

There isnt much of a point in arguing that herbivores should always hunt down carnivores they have damaged too far.
That said my idea doesnt explicitly force you off from killing them, and with especially aggressive herbivores like pachy, I've said multiple times in that diagram that the system can and will be ignored.

[steady cosmos]

This is untrue, a damaged carnivore usually is heavily detrimented anyways.
It is forced to hunt already, or even needed food before being bled out or crippled in the first place.

[visual edge]

There should be punishment for failing hunt, since punishment for prey failing to defend itself is just death. Some if not most predators can just outrun prey they failed to hunt.

[raw hedge]

The punishment should be starvation.
But food is too prevalent overall

[visual edge]

And food is not a problem for carnivore nor herbivore, if you manage to starve in the isle that is a major skill issues

[visual edge]

Exactly, food in the isle rn is super easy to get

[steady cosmos]

Misinterpretation of the idea again.
If I were to put simply what you're misunderstanding time and time again its the idea that this "punishment" for defending yourself will be instantaneous and terrible.

[raw hedge]

Just did a feed back post talking about how the game should be harder overall.
Food is a small part but not everyone deserves to get to FG all the time. Especially as you get bigger.

[steady cosmos]

When in fact for most of the engagement, specifically as pachy, would be you having 0 consequences for getting close already to killing said predator.
And in fact you would most likely kill any small predators that come your way before ANY consequences, even visual, will come up.

[raw hedge]

Too many players treat the game as raw PvP.
They think every fight should end in someone’s death, instead of escaping from the hunter, or deterring the engagement in the first place.
A lot of the debuffs just seal the death of the carnivore, but herbis can “hunt” with little repercussions (looking at you dibble mans lol)

[steady cosmos]

The system is not designed to force players not to fight, not that simply.
It is designed to give an immersive framework of signs in regards to bad things you're doing as a playable.
And at the higher end, lets say you're wandering around a giant pile of bodies that you just killed, your character will literally go insane.

Which can be changed depending on what you think immersive is for,say ,dyro, or pachy
Herbivores are the focus because, well, KOS

[raw hedge]

Kos is its own problem.
Most players don’t kill to survive but for sport overall
Dryo is a chill hangout and vibe until it’s time to escape.
Pachy is a herd animal that bullies carnivores that try and hunt it, or run when the target is too big

[steady cosmos]

Carnivores would be exempt from most stress related debuffs
They are literally forced to hunt after all

It would be a plain visual tool for them mostly, ways to make combat interesting visually

herbivores definitely need a limiter because most people just treat the game as a moshpit mixpack pvp sim

[raw hedge]

Meh.
Stress should happen in any case. Longer fights, in areas with lots of competition or danger.
Herbivores should be easier to play and defend.
But too many things are good aggressive and defensive.

There’s also nothing you can do about mixpacks besides limit the food that’s in their area.
Cause people can play the game however they want, and you can’t force that on the officials. Unofficial servers can limit that themselves

[steady cosmos]

Its not that KOS is terrible in some cases
It is an immersive and natural thing creatures in real life do on occasion
But thats things that are strong, aggressive, and have numbers
And its highly opportunistic, and could be amplified with the presence of juveniles

[burnt spire]

You are talking way too much like a typical YouTuber. I for sure hope they don’t liste to you at all

[raw hedge]

Sure. But most Kos happens because they’re bored. Or haven’t seen players because they are all sitting in bushes or random corners of the map.
Too many people make it to FG.
More needs to be done to prevent everyone from just existing to FG.

[burnt spire]

also yeah you can definitely do something against goddam mixpackers. For starters make it banable and then do it like some unofficial servers and make them lose stats and stuff. You are just another one who abuses this system all day long

[steady cosmos]

Yeah

[raw hedge]

Like a typical YouTuber?
Lmao
The idea of stress mechanics is just kinda meh in my opinion.
I also play Troodon. I am the stress lmao
Too many people think they have a right to get to FG.

[raw hedge]

Um. I don’t mixpack lol
And you can’t ban mixpacking on officials cause that requires a lot of moderation. Just go to an unofficial server

[steady cosmos]

Its not meant as a solid deterrent or anything.
Like stated multiple times.
It will be meh where players who decide to full send... do exactly that.

That said, the systems visual represenetation can extend to other things, like mixpacking.

[raw hedge]

Don’t get me wrong. I hate mixpackers that do it for kills. It’s gross.
But if some dryos are vibing with tenos, that’s fine imo.
But allos and Rex’s
Crocs etc. that’s just sad

[steady cosmos]

Case specific balancing I have chosen not to do, but assume the common sense for my idea is to allow and deter exactly what you say here.

[raw hedge]

Mixpacks are a player issue tho.
Not a game issue.
It’s easily abused because it’s easy to grow to 100% and get prime.
Make the game harder to survive and limit food in areas with players and you can* force it to naturally curb mixpacks

[steady cosmos]

I have seen the same wrong assumption that game =/= players
That is plainly false

Its easy to abuse because there are no systems to prevent or even deter players from doing it

The only way one can deter mixpackers is to simply kill them, by current game standards.

[raw hedge]

Yes and no.
There are no systems to stop it because limiting food will probably be more than enough to do it.
But it’s my opinion.
Bigger is also stronger, so players will use them as the facet of oppressive behavior etc.

[raw hedge]

I play Troodon to starve them to death.
I make them suffer for 45min to an hour plus. (Cause they all run to water)
Cause limiting how easy food is to get is the easy way to curb population

[steady cosmos]

To break down the idea of mixpackers further
Most people who mixpack are friends, and commonly use voice chats
They intend to break the game from the start
If that breaking of the game is made an absolutely terrible experience by way of your creature constantly being stressed and having intrusive screen effects, and even at the higher end, debuffs, that will definitely deter a lot of players from doing it.

[burnt spire]

Not talking about that one specific message you send. Just overall it’s hella typical.

Just answering to the rest as well
Firstly most would stop as soon as it’s banable and the once who don’t are cheaters anyway so win win.

Secondly viping isn’t mix packing. No one cares if for example raptors and stegos life site by site cuz there is enough food for the raptors and it wouldn’t make sense to fight. But the big groups that literally destroy servers need to be stoped. You can’t play eu3/2 atm cuz both have hella big mix pack trash (mostly likely with a few cheaters in them as well)

Mix and over packing should be the major concern for the devs rn cuz it’s the most gamebraking thing atm (together with hella laggy servers) and they could just ask some of the unofficial servers for help cuz they have the answer.

[raw hedge]

It’s honestly their own problem.
They chose to be bullies.
But it’s also an open world kind of game.
You can’t do much about it.
People will be people

[steady cosmos]

Deterrence though
and "a lot of players"
Mixpackers will go through the loopholes of staying well and far away enough to not be effected by this.
And that is a positive aswell.

[steady cosmos]

This is a terrible mindset to have when making a game that includes an ecosystem.

There are many ways you can address this, even beyond a stress system, however.

But for now I will include this talking point in my feedback and address it in a compressed manner

[raw hedge]

I don’t know.
I hate mixpackers that Kos.
But the devs won’t do anything about it because there’s no way to really code something that will do it
Players can curb mixpackers themselves.
Troodons and raptors can harass them for hours.
But you can’t expect the devs to do something that constantly requires moderation.
Unofficial servers do it because they have people that can deal with it.

[burnt spire]

Yeah you can ? Sorry but that’s hella stupid to say. They already have kinda rules with packing in the way of group max. They just need to enforce that rules and put a few more in place and enforce them as well .
Thats actually not hard at all and if they don’t do it their game will die the second another like it comes up

[raw hedge]

The ecosystem being abused by people is fair.
Hence, make getting to FG even harder.
Make food more scarce etc.

[burnt spire]

Nah unofficial servers have systems against it. If they can do it the devs can do it too. If nothing else works they could try ai or something but they HAVE to do something about it

[burnt spire]

So the normal people suffer even more while mixpackers can just hunt other Dino’s ? Nah dude that makes no sense at all

[raw hedge]

You know the official servers have no rules?
It’s because it’s not what they want for the game.
It doesn’t make it harder for the average player,
If you make ai not spawn in areas with high players, then they have to hunt etc.
the game already has mixpack symbols.
And you’d be surprised, when food is hard to get then they can’t get to FG
But areas with fewer players are still gonna be ok.

[burnt spire]

No rules is just wrong. The group size limit is a rule. It’s a “we want the game to be realistic rule” like anti mix packing stuff would be as well. It would be a “how Natur works” rule and a rule probably 80%+ of the player base would LOVE

Mix packers aren’t hunting ai anyway cuz it’s not enough at all. They are eating Dino’s so they won’t care. While normal players have food problems from time to time cuz nothing spawns in.

[steady cosmos]

I couldnt include the dryo example in this but know that creatures in this system would be customized to what should feel immersive.
Like you said calcolater, dryo should be chill even when mixpacking with other herbivores, so... it would plainly be allowed this.

[burnt spire]

I do not agree with all of it but I totally agree with 7 and 9 (also u missed 8 xD)
Especially the last point cuz the players won’t do anything. Some people are just hella horrible and they will always abuse something as much as possible. And games that don’t even try to fix stuff like that are like a magnet for this kind of people.

[steady cosmos]

Just assume 8 is evil 🤫

[visual edge]

If you want "realistic" and "how nature works" there is unofficial servers that roleplay, you can join them. It is impossible to make official servers have rules besides the obvious ones like cheating.

[steady cosmos]

What do you intend to say by this.
Some immersion should be incentivized in officials, having them be a moshpit always is terrible.

Its terrible that your mindset with officials is "they shouldnt limit it" because they havent been for the past 10 years

[visual edge]

So lets say you put those rules on officials, and somebody breaks them, what is your punishment? perma banning on official servers? that is bad for business

[steady cosmos]

This is riddled with falsities.

[burnt spire]

Just no cuz it’s not even close to impossible. It is easy cuz u can just ask the servers that have systems that combat mix packers. If u have no clue what you are talking about just stop thx

[visual edge]

Name them? come on lmaop

[visual edge]

You are just saying words man, they are not connecting

[steady cosmos]

Self awareness aside, rules and banning simply are not bad for business.
Why even type this.
Unofficials exist and are popular for this exact reason.

[visual edge]

So if you want rules, play unoffical, official is there just to mess around

[meager portal]

what is he yapping about

[burnt spire]

No dude you are just saying words and you are the one who makes no sense at all.
U have no real arguments at all.

You are definitely a mixpacker yourself. Otherwise it wouldnt make sense to say stuff like that

[steady cosmos]

I'm not even the type to suggest written ruling and admins for officials.
Its not a bad thing though, and this mindset you have is plain detrimental.

[visual edge]

I only play solo bro, i dont even play duo

[meager portal]

what a great comeback

[burnt spire]

Frist you say it’s not possible. Now you say official servers shouldn’t have rules.
Just say you are a mixpacker boy cuz it’s obv as hell

[steady cosmos]

Terrible behavior for discussing in this chat by the way, why would you even say this.

[visual edge]

How old are you

[steady cosmos]

Stop hurling insults at each other, it helps nobody.

[visual edge]

you are not sigma gif

[steady cosmos]

Better to agree to disagree than to be rude.

[burnt spire]

This dude is just another mechanic abuser. It doesn’t make sense to argue with someone who thinks “official servers is there just to mess around” is actually an argument.
Cuz official servers are there to play the game for real and unofficial servers are there to mess around cuz u can set your own rules.

[steady cosmos]

If it doesnt make sense to argue with them then dont.

Thats to be expected with people who completely oppose your ideas.

I made the mistake of asking a few people who were exactly like this why they disliked my idea yesterday.
And as you can see I have to explain literally all of their shortcomings to them when they probably dont care.

Its the nature of making feedback, sometimes people arent in any mood to properly discuss

[burnt spire]

Yeah I shouldn’t but sadly the devs are more likely to listen to people like that cuz it’s the easy way for them. And I just can’t sit around and wait for the devs to kill their game anymore.

It’s literally like talking with a wall and that’s sad.

[steady cosmos]

No, the devs can parse their own ideas themselves.
Listening to the masses every time is exactly NOT how this game is going to get better

One thing about them that I'm greatful for.

[burnt spire]

Well yeah obviously not and they shouldn’t listen to things that arent proven. But anti mix packing stuff works and it is proven to be WAY better than just ignore it.
But listening to people who have no arguments at all is always the wrong thing to do. And in this case the other site doesn’t have arguments at all. As you can see. And there are two unplayable eu servers rn cuz of mix packers so it’s not even a question’s that something needs to be done.

[steady cosmos]

I dont know where you have examples of anti mix packing systems working but this is true, yes.

Beasts of Bermuda I'd assume, but that game handles interestingly to say the least.

[burnt spire]

On some unofficial servers. They have systems that scan for mix packers. It isn’t perfect I would assume but it’s working

[steady cosmos]

I've seen that yeah, but that does require quite active admins

[burnt spire]

Actually no Cuz the mix packers are just getting debuffed to hell

[steady cosmos]

Anyways like I said yesterday I dont think I will return to this chat.
Calcolater was probably the only person who actually read and properly discussed my idea.

While I dont necessarily care about seeing the red X go up on my suggestion, I expected the discussion about why to be more proper here and it seems that was never going to happen.

[nimble wagon]

#general-feedback message
I'm personally not a fan, not because I want to slaughter as an herbivore, but because it's perfectly reasonable to go the extra mile to kill a carnivore that failed a hunt on you. Real dinosaurs' fractured legs would likely take a lot of time to heal, or at least enough for it to lose any opportunity of killing the herbivores in question. In this game, they take 5 minutes. This means you can be perpetually hunted by the same dino, and if you go the extra mile to win against them, you will be debuffed in your next defense. This could very easily lead to a negative gameplay loop. I do like that you tried to create a solution for overly aggressive herbis (which would be especially helpful to deter mixpacking), but this one wouldn't work imo.

[steady cosmos]

I made an update to this #general-feedback message here if you want to have a look at that aswell.

But to address "This means you can be perpetually hunted by the same dino"
This system does not specifically incentivize players not to destroy their enemy so they wont come back.
In addition, going the extra mile to kill some is as simple as that.
I dont think players should do this if they're playing a herbivore, but I'm not saying that they should be detrimented heavily even if they do.
I made sure to include "players will sometimes choose to fight to the death anyways" because thats just what happens sometimes

It really depends on the dinosaur.
I chose pachy as the example because I watched as a pachy completely destroyed a carno and its child all for the sake of clout and the clip.
It is the most likely dinosaur to prevent future chases by way of breaking its enemy, and it should be punished for not utilizing that chance to escape.

The potential of being hunted in the future is the same even if you get rid of one predator

[nimble wagon]

That is one entire less predator that is capable of killing you removed from the picture. That's pretty substantial. I still disagree with the idea because you have to sit down and heal while they are too. Unless you absolutely skill diff'd the carnivore and they landed neither a single bite nor bleed, you are still punished purely for not doing what you should do to survive in that scenario. And in that case, the carnivore player has misplayed to such a degree that they kind of deserve the punishment of a respawn screen.

Herbivores with tools to fight can, and consistently will ensure that their predators are dead. Plenty in real life do it too.

[steady cosmos]

It is not substantial at all.
Not with player counts and their choices in the isle.

Of course you have to sit down and heal after a battle, and I show this in the best example of my diagram.
Again, I never once said that players shouldnt be able to kill others, even with this system I have divised players have the freedom to stress their dinosaur out unnecessarily.
And again, immersion is key and it is very true that herbivores will run down and kill carnivores and their young.
It isnt about complete prevention, that is impossible, incentives though, are possible.
There is simply no way to force players not to be hyper aggressive as herbivores, its just not possible.
No system can achieve this without being so intrusive that it destroys immersion.

[nimble wagon]

This still punishes herbivores for taking preventive measures after being attacked. Being debuffed the next time you are attacked is not valid game design. Herbivores are already less incentivized than carnivores other than the existence of sanctuary already. Why devise a system that literally only serves to punish them, even in the most optimal scenario?

[steady cosmos]

And this is the problem I have with discussions here.
I left the idea vague and you filled it with something to negatively critique rather than a fix.

[nimble wagon]

I didn't fill it with anything. I'm telling you exactly how that part of the mechanic fails conceptually.

[steady cosmos]

You have the idea that the debuff will last long enough that the next time you get attacked you'll simply die.
Or if that debuff is even powerful enough to be a massive detriment in the first place.

You yourself created this idea so as to negatively critique, instead of finding the idea that for instance, a creature will gain its aggression capability back in ample time and be fully capable, or more so, of defending itself.

It shows me that you have no intention of building upon my idea as it stands.

You create a scenario where my idea is terrible, yourself.

Balance is key, and its impossible to find balance where you refute everything and refuse to find said balance

This is exactly the reason why I said that I wouldnt be posting here again.

And dont try to argue against what I just said, seeing as you said this, and it shows that you didnt properly understand my systems.

It very literally ignores half of the system in its entirety.

[nimble wagon]

Well if the debuff didn't last for a decent amount of time, the mechanic would do practically nothing at all. Even if it lasted only up until before you finish healing, being attacked still places you at an even bigger disadvantage than you already are. Nonetheless, you yourself are telling me that there is no situation where an herbi should kill a carni, even defensively. This clearly shows that the way that you would implement it would be to debuff even defensive killers. Even in the graph you say "killing should not be an immersive action." This literally lays out your intention of punishing defensive killing. So either the mechanic doesn't do enough to be impactful, or the mechanic overreaches and puts herbivores at a disadvantage. You're the one pivoting and getting angry. Respectfully, learn how to take criticism better.

#general-feedback message
This is in the current hordetest? Jesus that's abominable

[steady cosmos]

1. To restate, you created this imbalance yourself. Its up to you to understand that there is a sweetspot (buzzword for balance).
   You know its there and refuse to acknowledge it.

2. Being attacked when you're already hurt is simply a disadvantage in the first place, having some screen effects at most after a proper disengagement should have no problems.

3. I will reiterate for probably the 10th time now, not killing cannot be forced.
   This does not mean killing should be incentivized by terrible logic like "getting rid of a predator is good" when that does functionally nothing aswell.
   Aggression depends on the creature, and you, yourself, can create a situation where a creature is immersively aggressive
   Yet you refuse.

4. Defensive killing is entirely different from a prolonged and unnecessary battle.
   My example further solidifies this.
   Pachy should not be incentivized to kill a carno and its child, by the potential it has to do so.
   And should plainly be punished for such actions, even if minor, and only to show that it should not be doing the things it did.

5. It is as impactful as you make it, and you are making it not impactful to be negative in your critique.
   This is as plain and simple as I will state this, and the last time I will to you.
   There is a balance to be achieved with any system.

The fact you think I'm angry only serves to solidify your agenda.

The only emotion I feel seeing people misinterpret or refuse to find solutions, or rather degrade potential ideas down to failure, is sadness.

[burnt spire]

I would say max server population of 400-450 is too much cuz zones like sancs would be hella overcrowded. Also having player contact every 10 meters would be way too much for this game.
What do you guys think ? Also let’s not consider the bad state of the servers atm and let’s just assume the servers work perfectly fine

[limber hull]

#general-feedback message

i think you just need to go to a server with rules man

[steady cosmos]

Amazing input.

[limber hull]

i could increase the character limit of my message but overall i still think you'd be happier in a server which was catered to your playstyle and taste, the devs also are of the belief that it should be up to the server owner to decide things like this

[steady cosmos]

When I said "Amazing input." it was sarcasm.
I dont really feel like entertaining a lack of interest like this.
Wouldnt be hard to give server owners the ability to control this system, so you're just being annoying about it for 0 reason.

I would take what you say seriously if you had any intention of actually being constructive of my idea.

[limber hull]

im unsure what you want from me in terms of constructive input tbh, i'm trying to give you a solution that would help you get the playstyle you want out of the game, because what you want is not the same as what everyone wants, but that doesn't mean there aren't likeminded people who have already put in work to set up the immersive experience you want in the form of realism servers

[steady cosmos]

This is honestly the worst joke I have ever read.
"constructive input" is not what you have given since the beginning, and I dont want your help finding a compromise that already exists.
I know realism servers exist, and you're just stating they exist as a terrible reason for why my idea isnt necessary.

You could keep such a thing to yourself and choose to just put an X on it rather than act like its a criticism

[limber hull]

i never acted like it was criticism, i just think you'd be happier on a realism server

[steady cosmos]

Which has absolutely nothing to do with my idea, whatsoever.
It is plainly a joke, and ragebait.

[limber hull]

i personally don't like the concept of being punished for playing my way, i think if a pachy overcommits to a kill on a large predator, it should be punished via a risk of death, not also given "bad boy punishments", and i think punishing the already dwindling herbivore playerbase for self-defence is overall just not going to be very nice

[steady cosmos]

You dont read.

[limber hull]

im genuinely not trying to make you mad dude i literally mean no ill-will im just trying to give you a solution that doesn't compromise the devs plans for the game

[steady cosmos]

I cant get mad at such a terrible excuse for ragebait.

I will humor you though, what punishments do you think I included in my idea for the system?
Answer me this and confuse yourself.

[limber hull]

its not ragebait so im glad you're not mad i guess?

[limber hull]

the muscle spasms and, quote, "intrusive screen effects" are absolutely punishments

[steady cosmos]

And its a good thing you take them out of proportion every time.

You do this yourself, and its extremely disappointing.

This is why I dont take your attempt at discussion seriously.

Whittling down my idea to something that you can negatively view, all on your lonesome.
You create a version of my idea thats very literally worse than it is, and use it as your baseline.
Extremely disappointing.

Theres no constructive thinking to be had when your only goal is to view something negatively.

Not much of a point in responding since your first response to my second iteration was to go on a tangent.

[limber hull]

where's the positivity? there's no reward in this system, only punishment

if you rewarded healthy play rather than only punishing "non-immersive" play, i may have had a different response, but i don't like the stick over the carrot

there is nothing encouraging the player to play in a unique way, only mechanics set in place to discourage unfavourable playstyles

there's my constructive feedback, and i would also realy rather prefer you talk about my feedback rather than finding a new excuse to put me down because i had the audacity not to agree

[steady cosmos]

You start with something that proves to me so clearly that you didnt read what I wrote.
Its such a terrible joke.

What a horrible dance I've been playing with people who genuinely refuse to read anything I put on the suggestion.

[limber hull]

right, once again, you've only chosen to call me wrong rather than prove anything about what i said is wrong

[steady cosmos]

No, just telling you you didnt read.
Its unimagineable how you didnt read either of the founding parts of my system.

I dont understand how you think you can gaslight me into thinking what you say isnt ragebait, or overly negative "critique"

[limber hull]

i'm not trying to gaslight you or ragebait you, there's no conspiracy here

[steady cosmos]

Consider the facts:
Please try reading what I wrote.

I will continue to not take you seriously until you do.

[limber hull]

that isn't a reward for healthy play though, it's a passive that exists for being within the presence of a "source of aggression"

you aren't being rewarded there, because you haven't done anything that could be defined as immersive or healthy, you get that passively

[steady cosmos]

I dont seem to understand you skimming through my idea and making terrible statements in regards to it.

[limber hull]

this is specifically the line i was referring to, yes

[steady cosmos]

Your wording is funny aswell.

This is the second time someone has tried to say "X isnt actually X, its Y"

I will humor you with a basic constructive idea though:
Pachy gets a boost in damage when aggressive

Lets say this leads to pachy players using it as a meta?
Pachy gets to combat things better in beginning of combat.
When its aggression burns away it does the immersive thing and runs.
Further, in a herd pachy would become extremely dangerous.

It would have to be balanced in a specific way, but you can see the reward and punishment clearly.
Guidance requires both after all.

You could tamper with ideas for this.
But what you, a person who makes jokes about completely scrapping an idea to play on a realism server, chose that instead.

Another example:
A dryo gets jumpscared by a creature, enters its combat state.
Its dodge is increased in distance, and its speed and jump height increases aswell.

Do keep in mind, unlike how your negative view of my system works, the combat readiness statistic would keep the stress down.
Debuffs would only come from prolonged exposure to things your dinosaur would not like, immersion wise.

And they would exist on a spectrum.
Lets say, first would be some camera distortion, chromatic abberation, lens changes, darkening of the screen corners.
Continues to more intrusive screen effects like subtle tilting, camera shake, or heart noises beating into your ear in small amounts
That could ramp up, adding things like motion blur

Only after prolonged exposure would you take any serious changes to playability.

This is healthy and constructive idea storming.

And these effects could be mixed differently depending on species, giving visual interest to combat

But sadly you arent really interested in any of that.

[tired quest]

I don’t think the developers are capable of implementing such fine-tuned systems, for years, the game has relied on community servers to maintain a sense of semi-realism

[obsidian jetty]

could you define "jumpscared"? Would the dryo need to be bitten? Would it need line of sight? Or would the other creature just need to be close?

[steady cosmos]

Preferrably for dryo, simply being in close proximity would work

[delicate wadi]

I'm just backreading with 🍿 but NGL you have been so viscerally unpleasant throughout this entire conversation that any positive interest I once had in discussing your idea has vanished.

But consider "a dryo gets jumpscared" -- that would require the dryo to be notified of a nearby creature, even if the player doesn't notice it, and change the stats accordingly. There is no way to implement this that wouldn't end up partially or totally automating environmental awareness

It's also likely to be extremely abusable

[wooden agate]

https://tenor.com/view/why-what-in-the-hell-oh-god-pizza-house-on-fire-gif-15536410

[obsidian jetty]

so I could...use a dryo to find people? Because the dryo will enter its combat state when someone else is nearby?

[steady cosmos]

Its rather unpleasant for people to make statements such as this instead of simply contributing to a positive outlook

What I said to the other people, with the exception of calcolater was because they refused to take interest in my suggestion and would rather just be negative for the sake of negativity.

But in terms of dryos potential with such a system, just having a radius around it to activate its flight senses would be good.

[steady cosmos]

Close proximity is whatever you want it to be.
Do you want it to be a radar?

[obsidian jetty]

I ask you, it's your idea, not mine

[steady cosmos]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1349408407345434642/1472176352357781515/ezgif.com-resize1.gif

[delicate wadi]

But this has the same problem as I and others have described. It automates situational awareness by notifying players of hidden animals just by proximity, even if the player wasn't paying attention.

You say that nobody is contributing a "positive outlook," but pointing out problems in the idea isn't inherently negative. It's an opportunity for you to expand constructively on how it would actually function, but instead you just accuse people of ragebait and condescend to them. No surprise that people are reacting poorly :P

[obsidian jetty]

but it'd have to be far enough the Dryo can actually use its boost

[steady cosmos]

I'm very sad that people dont understand to use their own common sense to add to my idea.
Do you want it to be a radar?
This is what I was talking about with wavepoole and the overly negative look into my idea.

[delicate wadi]

I don't want it to be anything because I don't like the idea. It's not my responsibliity to defend your premise lol

[steady cosmos]

I know you dont.
Why discuss if thats your goal then.

I have no intention to correct a lack of common sense.

[icy lion]

Knock off this behavior or drop the conversation

[delicate wadi]

Because there are potential versions of the idea that I would like, but they only exist if you take into account the actual design and player experience consequences of the premise that you raised

[limber hull]

yea honestly that's how i feel

everything i say is twisted into "you're trying to gaslight/ragebait me", "you refuse to read", "you don't want to provide anything constructive"

its exhausting being made out as an awful person because i chose to suggest playing on a server more suited to his tastes, which apparently was me attempting to anger him, and even any attempts to give him what he wants are met with same level of "you're terrible"-ness

[steady cosmos]

And this is what needs to be discussed, like you said, dryo would be a radar if you view my idea in a bad way.
Its up to you, whether you want to see it as something that can be overpowered or not.

[delicate wadi]

Real, man. We've disagreed about game design before but you seem like a chill dude and it's 1000% not that deep. It's literally an opinion about a dinosaur game 💀

[proud escarp]

we're up bois #general-feedback message
will this finally happen 😭

[steady cosmos]

Its just how it goes.
You started with suggesting I play realism servers instead of being constructive.
Its not a good discussion method in my opinion, but thats just what happens when you do that.

And in general you refused to accommodate my idea to your own ideas.
You looked, saw what you thought was bad, and said it was bad plainly with no construction on it whatsoever.

[obsidian jetty]

honestly...dryo will be a radar no matter how I, or anyone else for that matter, views your idea. We all know it's gonna happen.

[steady cosmos]

The radius doesnt need to be radar distance, though.
And even then, is having a sixth sense as dryo even a bad thing?

[delicate wadi]

I don't think you understand the difference between criticism of an idea vs. personal attack, and until you fix that nothing will ever come of any discussion that you could have here

[proud escarp]

what is dryo if not food

[obsidian jetty]

if that Dryo has 2 carnos, 2 allos and a dibble behind it? I'd say....yes, it is...

[steady cosmos]

I never once personally attacked anyone.
They know what they were doing by suggesting something like that.

They knew both the effect it would have and that it wasnt constructive at all, but anyways we should stop discussing this.

[delicate wadi]

You accuse people of ragebait, say they have no common sense, accuse them of not reading, and accuse them of not being "constructive" enough. That is all personal attacks, with no address whatsoever to the critiques of the idea. You are projecting your anger and insecurity onto other people because you can't cope with the fact that people dislike your suggestion for a dinosaur game

[steady cosmos]

No, I said I wouldnt correct the common sense.
If that sounds offensive it wasnt meant to be.
Put simply you have the common sense to say that dryo would become a radar rather than balancing out the idea.

[obsidian jetty]

because it is not our job to make your idea work. It's yours.

[steady cosmos]

Balance should be the common sense when you take an idea and construct upon it, especially for a game like this.

[delicate wadi]

Again, it's not my responsibility to defend your premise. When people point out a flaw in the premise, that is an opportunity for you to address it. You are giving zero reason for people to want to engage with your idea because whenever people contribute, you attack and insult them instead of actually improving your idea

[steady cosmos]

Why would I be discussing here if it weren't to construct upon my idea with others?
This is very literally the issue I've been having since yesterday.

[delicate wadi]

Because you INSULT EVERYONE WHO DOESN'T LIKE YOUR IDEA DUDE.

[obsidian jetty]

but you refuse to take any criticism that would lead to you actually changing it and keep repeating what you already said

[delicate wadi]

👆

[steady cosmos]

I dont?
I quite enjoy the company of people who are constructive?
You both came in with good questions, albeit their lack of a view into proper balance.

And I answered your questions plainly, it was you who decided to dig into my disinterest in wavepooles methods of discussion.

[delicate wadi]

You do. If everyone in the room feels attacked and insulted by what you say, consider that your conduct is insulting rather than everyone else being the problem.

If your idea of "constructive" is everyone else asking no questions, offering no alternatives, and ultimately agreeing once you repeat yourself enough, you don't want discussion, you just want sycophants

[steady cosmos]

You typed this just after I wrote what plainly disproves this.

[obsidian jetty]

yes, you did answer my question. I'll give you that. Even without insulting me. I didn't like the answer, but that's a me problem I guess.

[steady cosmos]

You guys asked how dryo would detect things, I said "close proximity"
Close range.
We then discussed dryo being a radar, and I pondered whether it was good or not to keep.
Among discussions about me not enjoying speaking to wavepoole.

Which should not still be going on.

You can extend most of my idea to a variety of uses, and its interesting to have others who can pitch ideas for it.

[delicate wadi]

People raised that your idea is exploitable and unbalanced and then you just repeated yourself over and over, calling other people senseless instead of addressing that criticism though

[steady cosmos]

You two did, and I didnt do what you said here?
Dont start being rude.

[obsidian jetty]

as I said tho..."close" needs to be far enough for the dryo to react. If its combat boost only kicks in when a carno is already close enough to hit it with a charge before it can even react or a raptor is already close enough to pounce, it's useless. And that's...kinda...the issue.

[delicate wadi]

Yes, exactly. And that's not "no common sense" or "no ideas of balance," that's just being realistic about how the game actually functions

[steady cosmos]

Yes, a distance where creatures that intend to kill dryo can harm it
I'd say thats about allosaurus leaping distance

[obsidian jetty]

and that's when mixpacks will use Dryos to scout people hiding in bushes

[steady cosmos]

It could be to detect only moving or attacking creatures

Which would be nice because then a pouncing or stomping creature can be heard and you can instantly react with a long range dodge

And or jump forward

[obsidian jetty]

so...the dryo would not react to the adult rex in the bush next to it because it isn't moving?

[delicate wadi]

At that point it just seems a bit redundant to me. A moving or attacking creature is already perceptible to the player's senses. If you have good situational awareness and reaction time you can simply run away regardless. I'm not wholly opposed to some kind of small-animal specific "spooked" status, but if it were to exist I would want it to be player-triggered, like rex's "murder sprint," not automated by proximity

[steady cosmos]

Indeed, they can already be heard and avoided, my system would give you a boost to your reactive capability.
And an automatic trigger is simpler than a player specific control.
That is a matter of preference though.

Its not like you're automatically jumping out of the way of the enemy as soon as the radius is triggered, you still have to react.
Your reaction will just be stronger.

I could see something of a mix, where you have to press a button to trigger the heightened senses, however.

[steady cosmos]

I was going to respond to this but got caught up
I did not say there was no common sense, again, its a balancing mindset and sense for that.
If the first thought in my head is that it will be unbalanced, its time to tone it down, whether that requires a drastic change to the ability or not.

[delicate wadi]

You did say that, though

[steady cosmos]

I admit my fault here.

[steady cosmos]

Do keep in mind this is why most of the critique I have been dealing with before this has been disappointing to me.
Like wavepoole, he came in and wanted me to scrap my idea entirely.
Thats just not right.

[obsidian jetty]

I am not going to lie, I just don't see the need for something like that at all. Especially not for official servers. All it would do is add another layer to the already difficult balance for...literally no reason other than to make the game align with your idea of immersion/realism and thus force everyone to play the game the way you think it should be played...

[steady cosmos]

In the specific case of dryo I disagree.
It would add more to dryo and thats always a good thing.

[obsidian jetty]

I would not be opposed to someone making a mod that does that for an unofficial server

[steady cosmos]

Discuss it as though it were a mod, should make it more appealing.

[obsidian jetty]

I wouldn't play on that server tho

[steady cosmos]

I dont see a problem with more complexity being added, especially adding a polarity of reward to punishment, or in some creatures cases unique additions to their ability set.

[delicate wadi]

Thank you.

Anyway, the issue with the automatic radius trigger remains that it exists in two forms:

• With sufficient range & automation that it can be exploited as a kind of dev-sanctioned "ESP".
• Not exploitable, but with such a narrow range that there is no real reason for it to be automated.
  For these reasons I would think that having to manually trigger the state could boost reactive capability while still rewarding player skill via situational awareness.

But the elephant in the room here is that the entire premise of this "dryo jumpscare" system is based on the idea that dryo needs a buff (true)... but it would probably be equally solvable by regular statistical buffs such as improving its dodge distance/charges, or I dunno... giving it those burrows finally. Rather than implementing a whole new subsystem that massively complicates game balance & presents new opportunities for abuse.

Also, I feel the need to point out: wavepoole wasn't telling you to scrap your idea, he just told you that you might get the experience you desire on a realism server -- because he rightfully recognized that it's enormously unlikely for the system you propose to actually make it into the game.

[steady cosmos]

The first point is easy, just limit its capability to situations where it cant be used as an esp.
The range wouldnt matter too within a certain threshold since it would only activate when something is basically pouncing at you or charging in your direction.

Manual is definitely a good idea, its something to keep in mind if I make another infographic.
Regular statistics are uninteresting, and dont add to the character of the creatures.

I know what wavepoole meant, and it was not worth mentioning at all.

[obsidian jetty]

which kinda is the main issue here is that you are expecting people to be constructive and entertain an idea they want nothing to do with...I mean, I tried to do that. But dryo is only one part of your idea anyway. That would apply to ALL herbivores one way or another. And there simply are many people who don't want this game to be semi-realism, which is precisely why they're playing on official servers. Bringing the semi-realism arbitrary "you need to be scared, because someone said so"-rules to official servers is a terrible idea, sorry...

[steady cosmos]

The enormity of a system like this is no consequence, its a concept after all

[steady cosmos]

You dont have to discuss an idea you dont want anything to do with.

The interest you both showed in my dryosaurus idea alone was worth a discussion though, to me.

[delicate wadi]

I mean, the enormity of the system is a consequence when it comes to the fact that you are making a suggestion for the project of this game, whose scope is already ludicrous for the size of the team. This is predicated on the idea that you want your suggestion to be implemented. If you don't want your suggestion to be considered for implementation, why make it?

My question remains...

The first point is easy, just limit its capability to situations where it cant be used as an esp.
OK, but how though?

[obsidian jetty]

true, is why I just asked that one question. Was less to "discuss" more of a making sure I understood correctly.

[steady cosmos]

It's just feedback, I wouldn't read too deep into it.

In regards to making dryos senses not esp, if someone is sitting still in a bush, crouched or otherwise, they wont be seen, simple
You could extend this up to walking speed if that sounds more balanced.

And to correct a problem I saw in this, people already use a variety of creatures to gain an advantage in the already lawless official servers.
While I definitely dont want them to have esp dryos searching out people, this should not be a limiter on potential ability discussion.

Another idea I could throw out is the potential of more berserker style aggression usage
Lets go with something small, avaceratops
Small boosts in stamina while in an aggressive state, naturally
Mutations do exist to give this benefit aswell, but incentivising aggressive playstyles by giving this reward before combat could add interest to how people play.

Or for instance you can change that over to something more specific to avaceratops, being depicted as a nest raider, if eggs are eaten it can be frenzied for bonuses.

The same could go for things like oviraptor, if they want that to be an egg thief
That would be nimble based

[delicate wadi]

I think that's a fair point -- and it's probably part of why ptera is so neutered with its stamina regen, etc. But I don't think numerical changes inherently detract from the character of the creature when it comes to improving that creature's existing gimmick (i.e. more dash charges with improved distance characterize dryo as even more flighty and nimble, without automation or costly implementation of brand-new systems).

I maintain that giving feedback implies that you'd like the devs to act on your input. That's not reading too deeply into it, that's the basic function of feedback. And generally speaking, your odds of getting what you want are improved when you propose them with respect to the scope of labor, technical limitations, and game balance that would follow. That's why I nearly always bring up feasibility when discussing feedback in these channels

[steady cosmos]

Stats dont necessarily detract, this is true, but temporary stat bonuses can be given much more leeway at least in my opinion.
Instead of being given pure physical ability, that ability can be powerful at the cost of only being used in certain cases.

About feedback, its different for everbody I assume.
I posted my idea with the intent to discuss it with others, left it intentionally vague so people can create ideas with it that we can discuss.
If a developer sees it, or a proper discussion like the one we have about dryo, and takes something from it, thats just a bonus for me.

Discussing while reaching a balance is more worthwhile to me than simply refuting all of the problems a system like this could have
Whether it be its scale, or otherwise.
You could take things from discussions like these as separate ideas and create something new.
Dryos ability is probably the best example, you could literally just give it that separate of my system.

That said giving ptera temporary bonuses like these might make it better for the developers vision.

[steady cosmos]

While my idea does have some major focus on immersion, its not like we have to discuss it in that context as a whole.
We still managed to create an immersive idea for dryo and discuss its balancing potentials

And dryo is probably the most interesting thing to talk about since immersive dryo gameplay is literally just being scared and skittery
Extend interesting ideas to gallimimus or other sprinters and it pairs nicely with their already present performance.

Incentives that lead you to immersion, whether it be a buff here, or a terrifying screen effect there
Speaking of screen effects those separately would just be nice, the bloody screen is kinda lackluster and adds no visual interest to combat.
Even out of the context of my idea, adding motion blur of varying degrees to a creature thats beginning to die, or chromatic abberation when your creature is startled, would just go so hard.

Or audio effects, like heartbeats or hyperventilation

They work perfect for a stress effect, would probably stress out players too, but separate from that they work aswell.

[steady cosmos]

#general-feedback message While I think this idea is good, bodies in trees are a bit buggy @ivory venture
Could definitely be a thing in the future if they iron out the interaction between bodies and trees.

Was thinking of a way to make pachys stress and... adrenaline more unique.
Pachy is a hit and run bruiser so I had combat focus in mind.
Giving it a first-hit-after-adrenaline bonus would be interesting.
Could either do more cc, knocking down even things like carno, or do extra pure damage.
An emphasis on burst gameplay, and of course you could balance it out with reduced damage output after the first hit.
This would guide players to hit once, give them the opportunity to put on more bone breaks, but then run.

[pastel violet]

Not sure is this is the right channel for this question but:
Why was Pt stam taken out back and shot?

[slow gorge]

Absolutely none of this is gonna make it into the game yall. Lol. The devs literally blow off their player base and do what they want all the time. You can complain about how the game is run til the cows come home and the devs will just keep doing whatever they wanna do and balance or not how they wanna balance, and ultimately if you don't like it there's unofficial servers for that. That goes for this weird stress system, not banning mix packers, you name it. Some things will change based on community opinion but like.... baby stuff.
They they didn't even nerf pinslop allo or rex turn this ht. Instead they BUFFED Allo. Despite CONSTANT posts from the community about how bad those are.
The game won't die even if the mix pack situation never changes. Just the meta and player base will look different. People who are cool with it will play and the people who aren't won't. Simple.

Reminds me of this story.

Also back reading God every person who said anything remotely "I don't like this" is being attacked right and left. What a miserable conversation to participate in at all. Sorry yall had to deal with that over some pretty mild criticism.

[limber hull]

y'know, I always find it strange when people say "devs always blow off the feedback all the time" but like, avaceratops got into playability as of late because the community KEPT asking for it

the pin thing i feel is still too kneejerk a reaction, no significant balance patches have been made this patch at all, so to assume that this initial "kentro hordetest" is all there will be and pin will be receiving no changes (despite devs acknowledging the pin situation earlier and discussing plans to rebalance pins across the board in a prior devblog) also seems of like it isn't really telling the full story

in fact, we already know that the balance part of this hordetest flat out isn't here yet, since we know several animals who are planned to receive changes, the main one we know is getting notable changes of course being pteranodon, who's receiving better damage, health and weight, possibly speed as well

like honestly this post seems to be more the expectation that the hordetest would've had everything all at once, when its pretty clear the launch was not to test balance but rather keep focus on map changes, kentrosaurus and network stability, as well as other little details

[steady cosmos]

Havent even gotten balance patch one for this ht

[floral niche]

Glad that they realized how horrible of a decision it would be to not make ava playable

I just hope now it is fundamentally distinct from dibble and doesn’t just have a faster sparring

I would love to see an ava group hunting

[junior nymph]

#general-feedback message the world is healing

[nimble wagon]

This but for herreras too PLEASE
You can start at the beach by South swamp and eat some turtles and crabs but you're cooked if you try to make the journey to the main parts of the island, forget about even going to sanctuary for your prime too lmao

A lot of spawns are just a nigh guaranteed starve-to-death simulator unless you get lucky

This is even WITH taking Efficient Digestion as soon as you spawn btw

[blissful kite]

Hi, please fix the rubber banding and the mega legs, it's absolutely horrible to play like this...!

[signal geode]

#general-feedback message
Few reason why this would be bad

• lag would be abysmal
• would douple Or triple the size of mixpacks
• no time to enjoy scenery your going to be fighting/running 24/7 if your not In the edge of the map

[junior nymph]

dont forget needing no ai, and corpsewipes

[signal geode]

Yeah those too

[vernal jacinth]

@paper galleon you want #🐞-evrima-bug-reports-🐞 for that

[paper galleon]

ª, thx

[tame plover]

Feels odd to say, but I have never been this close to quitting a game due to the weather XDDD

[signal geode]

#general-feedback message

its decync not the hitbox

[slow gorge]

Sure but they buffed allo when people complain about it being too good.
I'm not saying they never do things based on feedback. But there's so much feedback all the time they ignore. They're making the game they wanna make and that's what they're gonna keep doing and eventually you either play it or not.

I have no expectations around hoard test actually. I was just pointing out that the game is gonna be what the devs want regardless of how much people scream "dead game" or say "this needs to be added or else".

I actually kind of admire the attitude.

[limber hull]

oh, i do agree that i admire the devs commitment to their vision and not compromising on it, but at the same time, i think that can be true while still acknowledging the game is how it is because of the devs commitment to their vision AND feedback

had feedback not been given, we'd only have 3 playable dinosaurs, no playable herbivores, a completely different gameloop and so on

i think the issue lies in people expecting their feedback to be implemented because its popular

[tame plover]

#general-feedback message This is mainly lag compensation which fcks up fights, not so much hitbox (they have already massively reduced stego hitbox)

[rancid rune]

hi! I don't know if this is the right place to ask this, but, I don't know where to see how much health I have, bc when I click tab and i see the status report, the heart rate is always the same even when its impossible for me to be healthy. Idk if I maybe have miss any update or smth, but i need help pls

[blissful atlas]

you have to guesstimate your health with the blood around your screen.

[rancid rune]

ohh alr, but then the heart rate doesn't change anymore depending on your health?

[blissful atlas]

it doesnt, i believe there will be further changes to the blood screen so its easier, but the heartrate colour change was removed.

[rancid rune]

alrr, ty so much!!! I was very lost lmao

[blissful atlas]

no worries! ^_^

[cunning eagle]

there could be an option where we can select the type of HUD we want, like choosing between the old and new HUD, the old HUD being the one that was in Legacy and in Spiro

I think Dondi should add this, and it's a simple thing too.

I liked the old HUD more than the new one

especially the one about spiro

[limber dragon]

they added join q button wow

[hidden pilot]

its always been there since the queue was first implimented

it just only shows up when the server list displays a server as full

[raw hedge]

You can also look at bite force.
If your base bite force starts dropping you are under 50%
At 25% you bite force is half of your max and stops dropping.

[blissful atlas]

oOoOoh i didnt even think about that one. ty

[raw hedge]

Yup.
It’s one of the easiest ways to tell for me personally. I don’t pay attention to the blood screens much, I just know 2nd screen is somewhere around 75%, so I look at bite force as a better marker.

[hard grail]

@tawny pendant Wym Beipis nightvision is good underwater above sub adult phase

[vernal jacinth]

@warm dust been officials for awhile now but feedbacks aren’t really for asking questions. You can always ask stuff in the #isle-discussion or in the server chat channels

[warm dust]

Thank you

[proud escarp]

bro the community spoke #general-feedback message
just add it already, its just a single integer change

[frank furnace]

I honestly have no idea what the developers are doing or if they are reading these messages at all...

[frozen heron]

#general-feedback message

[frank furnace]

Then it's strange that despite the complaints about the pounce, nothing has changed. Its seems that no one even answered this topic.

[frozen heron]

They've already discussed giving some animals retaliation against pins and pounces

[frank furnace]

in the discord chat? I would like to see

[frozen heron]

Kentro already has a form of such retaliation, we're just waiting for additional changes in the next patch

[wooden agate]

in devblogs actually

[frank furnace]

It's a pretty strange solution to the problem if they add pin protection only to certain creatures.

[wooden agate]

well not every animal is built to be able to fight back while being pinned lol

[frozen heron]

You would expect a hulking mass of spikes to have some pin retaliation
Dryosaurus doesn't have many options

[proud escarp]

pachys are better than the current state of kentro, hopefully it changes

[wooden agate]

well kentro is unfinished so yes

[frozen heron]

We already know it's going to change, hence why i mentioned the devblog tidbit

[frank furnace]

Instead of giving all the dinosaurs some kind of minigame, an opportunity to get out, the dinosaurs are just given protection from it and that's it.

I don't really want to see you raise a small dinosaur a 2-3 hourss and get killed with a single button without a chance of survival. Is it realistic? Maybe. Is it interesting? Only for carnivores, which take up most of the online space on the server.

[wooden agate]

well those small dinosaurs have several things to help them avoid being pinned all together to begin with

[frozen heron]

Speed, size, agility

[wooden agate]

like, if galli gets pinned by an omni/allo... thats on the galli. the game shouldnt save them or provide mercy, you made the mistake, you pay the price

[frozen heron]

I understand how unfun it can be. Genuinely. Me and my group all hate pin. But honestly I don't think it's going to leave, the only thing remotely close is immunity for specific animals, like how omni cant pounce kentro in defense stance
All we can suggest is how to tune it to be more fair for us players

And honestly the only bad part about it is mid-sized animals getting the ability(allo)
Omni needs a pack to be able to successfully pin something large
Rex kind of needs it to hunt period

[proud escarp]

even with these changes, sounds still underwhelming, we'll see

[frank furnace]

The funny thing is that the omniraptor has a faster speed than all herbivores and small carnivores.

[frozen heron]

Omniraptor is not faster than galli

Smaller things like dryo, hypsi, troodon, etc have way better maneuverability
Beipi can swim
Herrera can climb

[wooden agate]

and it has horrid stamina and has an incredibly predictable hunting loop

most things omnis can pin have the speed agility and/or stealth to avoid being killed by the omni lol

[frank furnace]

Okay, it's probably just my skill issue, I dont have much playtime, but seeing that many players consider this mechanic to be unfair, it feels like it's not skill issue 🐊

[proud escarp]

its unfair because of allos and rex, i don't think many consider pin to be bad on raptor

[frozen heron]

You just have to be vigilant and keep a wide berth between you and pouncing creatures

[proud escarp]

i mean i do well on dodging raptors as a troodon and sometime even take on adults, but yeah it is what it is

[frozen heron]

Allo is the only thing that lunges when it pounces so it can close the distance
Excluding deino

[wooden agate]

its mostly grapple that people have an issue with

some people dislike pin as a whole but honestly like i said, most animals that can be solo pinned by x/y/z have tools to avoid the solo pin all together

allo just realllllly showed that grapple math being 101% of the preys weight is not so good

[proud escarp]

something to be nerfed imo, that's a whole ass teleport, especially when its juvi lol

[frank furnace]

I've seen raptors often get stuck in the air when trying to pounce

Bro got hacked

[ivory venture]

Omg does this work? Is it really that easy to make so much money

I'm going to try now

[lilac bolt]

<@&933486433342222376>

[frank furnace]

that's exactly how it works...

No, dont try it, its a scam

[limber hull]

oh wow they moved from mr beast to kai cenat

[ivory venture]

My God Kai would never lie

[frank furnace]

GUYS LOOK! NOT A SCAM 100%

its a joke, dont ban me

[ivory venture]

@moderatorguys get this guy he's tryna scam me

[frank furnace]

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Delete my browser history

[floral steppe]

How to report a hacker

[blissful atlas]

you write your in game name, what server you were on, the species of the cheater and what you suspect the cheat was, then tag the OfficialServerAdmin role

[floral steppe]

My username is EL_PRIMO_TTV. I was on the US 5 server. The species that killed me was a Diabloceratops. I don't know what it had, but it killed me in one hit. I have the clip.

[blissful atlas]

<@&505047238674874368>

[radiant shoal]

havent played hordetest, so genuine question: is kentro weak herbslop?

[limber hull]

what in gods name is herbslop there's no way that's a term people use

[radiant shoal]

gonna go out on a limb and assume that blocked message was unuseful.

[limber hull]

that explains a bit

[raw hedge]

@uneven merlin I don’t know how you’re starving as a Troodon tbh (haven’t played Herrera in a min but I never really starved with them either)
For Troo:
If you spawn the east lake area go to the beach and run along it until you see a crab or turtle.
If you spawn by coastal pond/delta you can go to the beach or hunt for a chicken.
In N jungle you can go to the human structure by the gate/wall north of the sanctuary and get chickens as well
(Wait till you’re 6kg so you can pin the chicken)
Just gotta learn your ai spawns

[signal geode]

Kentro is Hard not weak
People dont know how to play it yet so every1 is saying its weak

[limber hull]

it is a little weak, but that's primarily due to a few incomplete mechanics and slight stat problems

[signal geode]

Or ALLOOO

[limber hull]

kit-wise i'd argue it's pretty much perfect

[radiant shoal]

thank you. i havent played hordetest yet but i’m watching youtube videos of even the “skilled” fighters and it’s not looking very good lol

[limber hull]

allo's balance is pretty awful all things considered, but i'd rather see allo reworked than kentro designed to deal with it, since i believe current allo to be awful (and not because of pin but because of literally everything)

[radiant shoal]

i’m guessing people aren’t really sure how to use its defensive stance effectively. People seem to think they’re turtled up when they guard left or right? Tail swings seem horrifically delayed maybe? it feels very clumsy. just seeing what you lot think.

[barren crater]

There's notable endlag from what I've played with, but I much prefer that to stegos insanely quick powerswing. It also hits like a truck if you land it

[radiant shoal]

good bleed to dd ratio or is it notably favouring one over the other?

[barren crater]

it does it all tbh. Hits like a truck and you bleed out if you run lol

Not too sure what you mean by bleed to dd ratio :O

[radiant shoal]

nice. i’m interested to get a feel of where it fits in with the roster. it seems like it goes down about aș fast as a tenonto but with dibble related damage?

[barren crater]

All I can say is if you land your hits, not even allo can ignore it. You nuke cera and smaller

[radiant shoal]

you pretty much answered my question. i was just curious if they focused bleed with the tail swipe or direct damage or if you get a decent lick of both

[barren crater]

gotcha

[radiant shoal]

thank you

[uncut zephyr]

Too much tailslop

[urban flax]

The storytelling within that conversation is insane

[uncut zephyr]

Islecord lore goes deep

[frozen heron]

@pale vale It hasn't even been 2 hours, more colors are planned

[urban flax]

@pale vale The removal of color options has nothing to do with realism, it's because it was impossible for them to make nice palettes while not allowing people to make 90% ugly skins

They're remaking the skin system to improve it, and the reason eye customization was removed is because they entirely remade the skin shaders and haven't made a new color system for them yet

[junior nymph]

@pale vale the new system rn is just the base pallete, its nowhere close to done Id guess it was just seeing "hmm does this work ingame yes or no"

[stark hawk]

Ok so what exactly has changed with this skin system? I know they plan on adding vibrant colours with mutations or something like that, so I wont yap about how that "sucks". I see theres this new "theme" thing, which is just a default one, but whats going on with the patterns? Are they making new patterns cause all of them seem to just be the default one all of a sudden

[limber hull]

its VERY WIP, but yea, themes grant access to different colour options, it only really works on raptor atm

[stark hawk]

Will you be able to permanently unlock themes or is it just gonna be an entomb thing?

ooooooooooohhh I think i'm getting it now nvm, that entomb thing isn't related

[limber hull]

maybe? again, very WIP, it'd be cool if new patterns and themes come up from entombing tho

[paper galleon]

@raw hedge the mutations u ask for are a very big game changer, u complain about all the ones that do that but u add new ones that make allo and utah totally useless, they aren't going to put those, also, u complain a lot about gastro reg but u don't talk about tactile endurance which is the most broken in the game, they should eliminate it, I agree with eliminating the gastro reg but also tactile endurance simply never having to worry about the stam as herb, is unfair and surreal, they make all herbs above the carn in fair circumstances

[icy lion]

@cosmic thorn

[cosmic thorn]

Later can mean a lot of things. Later can mean later this Hordetest update, but later can also mean later as in the updated UI later, which still isn't finished.

[raw hedge]

I mean, I don’t know how they make allo and Omni useless.
It just means you have to rely less on the grapple/ pin.
There are still secondary conditions for grapples. Low hp, low stam, low bleed…
All it does is increase what you can pin, or a defensive mut to increase weight needed to pin you immediately.
And herbivores are stronger than the carnivores mostly cause they are bigger, have cc, and different attacks.
But I don’t think the balance is broken
Tactile endurance is annoying, but it only gives a % of stamina based on damage received. It doesn’t actually convert damage to stamina.
Also, for tactile endurance, pounces (at least for Troodon) don’t actually trigger tactile endurance, we tested that.

If you need grapple to kill things as allo and Omni, you might wanna practice using the other attacks they have. You can stack a lot of bleed as allo.
And as raptor, the rmb pounce has use, you just need to get the target damaged first.
No carni should be easy to play. Otherwise it gets boring

[wild quarry]

ok but that later means like 4+ years

and i dont wanna be ugly as hell for that long

[cosmic thorn]

@raw hedge I like those mutation change suggestions. Especially now that we're getting the large dinos I think a redesign on some is needed to make sure they're balanced against small dinos. So many mutations are pointless on small dinos while being busted on the larger ones.

[limber hull]

i think adding an "anti-pin" mutation is not really that great, just shifting the mutation meta from one point to another

nor is the "do extra bleed" mutation

again, shifting from "all carnivores get great buffs" to "only bleeders do"

it'd be like adding a "deal more fracture damage" mutation, making rex and pachy absolute nightmares

[paper galleon]

in the same way that traumatic and epidermal do it.
Any dino rn doesn't have to worry about the stam, this mean they don't have to worry about the pin too, although it is true that the pounce don't work because it isn't direct damage, in combats there are usually bites and I almost always regenerate almost the entire stam at the end of the fight while the carnivore has no stam, so I can chase him and kill him, it's just stupid xd.
And no, it isn't only because they have more cc, larger and different attacks, but also because of the highly inflated damage they obtain unlike carnivores even though they have the same weight, everything else, although true, is normally because of the damage or the ease of doing so much damage (since they have a cc and a very strong attack right after), they also tend to have more weight than they really should, even kentro does (and it is designed for the pin).
you get stam based on the damage received, that means converting a % of the damage received into stam, idk why you say no, you check it and you aren't able to understand that if they hit you with a very strong attack you recover the majority of stam, try 2 kentros and let him have 0% stam and the other hit him with the strongest attack he has, you will see that it recovers almost all the stam XD

[paper galleon]

also, the only one that really takes advantage of gastro reg is cera, you can eat anything without a problem and the food drop is neither too fast nor too slow, but even so it isn't crazy what they cure unlike the stam that you recover, with stam you can continue fighting, with full hp but without stam you can't

[raw hedge]

It’s not so much anti pin. It just might increase the threshold for weight.
But I can see it getting out of hand.
The bleed damage mut was just an idea for Dino’s that have a lower raw damage, and would be attacking a lot on a target anyways.
It would just allow for smaller creatures to take out larger targets if the skill is there.
That’s what I meant by some Dino’s getting it, not just bleeders but Dino’s that rely on multiple attackers to hunt something down.
Too many mutations anyways are just blanket ones.

[raw hedge]

You might also just be straight up rushing fights.
If you’re causing enough damage to keep a target at perma 100% stam, you should try and make the fight last longer to conserve your stam, and make them sprint more to bleed out if there chasing you
Herbivores need to be stronger, otherwise no one would play them. They have abilities, and they have weaknesses as do all the Dino’s. (Except Rex lol. Though it has bad bleed resistance)

You can’t have the fights be 100% balanced. There are things you’ll do better against.
If things are only balanced for things they’re sized then bigger is always better and that just is boring imo. Removes the thrill of raptor and Troodon hunts. Or Herrera stalking a prey etc

[icy lion]

@lofty pumice Don't play the hordetesting branch if you don't want to test unfinished systems tbh

[paper galleon]

I'm not saying that herbs can't be played, I'm just saying that they have to worry about the stam just like carnvs, plus if the herb knows that it's okay to have more stam, it will always force you to use your stam, You can't just wait for the carnv to always recover the stam, and I didn't say that you have 100% stam perm, I mean that despite spending the stam, I usually have a lot at the end of the fight, also in fights like teno vs carno it is simply stupid, wax vs dibble the same, no matter how much they hit you, by having so much hp you can receive a lot of damage in exchange of always having stam to continue fighting while the carn without stam cannot continue fighting, the herbs are very strong right now not strong, very strong, both for their cc, damage and health, as well as the difference in damage and life against their predators.
I'm not talking about 100% balanced, but dibble can almost oneshot almost everything and if you survive, leaving you with a bleed that is too unhealthy is stupid, while carnivores have to spend half an hour hitting or trying, I just want the herbs to have to too be fighting, it's very boring to end the fight in 1 hit or 2, just as rex vs rex is boring, the first one to break his legs wins, it doesn't matter if he has almost full hp, the fight has just started and you are already dead, it's just boring, I just want more action

[raw hedge]

It is funny.
HT always gets wiped. But people try to get good at the new stuff before it gets released lol
It’s not the “new version” it’s a test and showcase of what’s to come. People should know it gets wiped

[wild quarry]

The players didn't want this system in the first place, and were very loud about not wanting it.This isn't a balance or fix that needed to happen. atm it feels like- at best, no one is listening to us. At worse actively trying to make the player base angry

[raw hedge]

It sounds like your personal opinion. I think herbivores are fine for the most part.
If you’re dying and the person you’re tryna hunt is full hp, then you’re just easy to hit.
Not tryna sound toxic and just say it’s a skill thing, but you can’t make fights “even”
It’s not a PvP game that’s supposed to be fair. It’s a hardcore survival game. You can’t just make it a button mashing game.
And yeah, stego will1-2 tap an allo, cera etc.
but you really wanna nerf it and make it Rex fodder?
Balance can’t be made for everyone. Some things just have to be stronger to be able to survive.

[raw hedge]

I mean, you want a chance to get your colors back right?
They are making the game around what they want. Wiping the HT is needed for updates anyways

[coarse venture]

WHY I HAVE 594PING IN EU 1 IT THIS FU***** JOKE?

[limber hull]

i mean, i already like it way more as a proof of concept than the prior system, so idk what you're on about

the limited colours are mentioned several times to be temporary, and so far i think the idea here has so much more potential

the only animal in the entire game with any form of colour style variation is omni because the system isn't done yet, yet the main opinion is that "the colours are too limited", which is something easily changed

[raw hedge]

If you’re talking about HT servers they are having issues iirc right now

[coarse venture]

I was just about to play with my friend and at this moment I'm so angry

[raw hedge]

Ok, but the HT is always gonna have issues. No need to scream about it because they are tryna fix it.
The official servers on Evrima should be working fine

[wild quarry]

maybe don't take them away in the first place??? We shouldn't have to beg at their feet to get features back??? also they already mentioned they will have color pallets instead of mixing and matching colors to make actually unique skins god forbid I wanna be green and brown at the same time

[lofty pumice]

Last time I played horde test I waited till it came to the main branch to judge, guess what? Nothing changed nor got fixed which goes for a lot of these new HT builds. So it’s not strange to be skeptical of another customization nerf

[raw hedge]

The skin system got borked cause they were upgrading alot of skins to a higher resolution.
Now they want to have things look more “natural” and that’s up to them. Unofficial servers still have all the skin colors you could want.
They want to make it better, but temp made it worse.
It’s not that big of a deal imo but I get the frustration

[wild quarry]

so their making the game just for themselves? What happens when everyone leaves when they keep making their players upset?

[raw hedge]

?
The last HT was for Allo and Rex tho
Wasn’t meant to be an overall fix.
Each Ht has a purpose.
Either playable testing, map and mechanic etc

[raw hedge]

Not everyone is gonna leave cause you can’t pick colors lol
That’s a silly reason imo

[limber hull]

its been pretty clear they've been making the game for themselves for a while, yes

but also, yet again, the system isn't done, the colours aren't done, it's a test

[obsidian jetty]

is it just me or are a staggering number of hordetest feedback posts basically just "we hate testing things, make the game and don't let us see anything before you give us the finished product"?

[raw hedge]

Yup lol
Heaven forbid the game is still in development (insert 10year joke here)

[wild quarry]

This isn't just about colors at this point the issue is. YOU DON'T LISTEN TO PLAYERS! what else are they gonna push that we THE PLAYERS that KEEP THE GAME ALIVE do not want like that awful first person update that keeps getting bounced around

[paper galleon]

you aren't understanding what I have told you, I tell you that I don't want the fights to last 2 seconds with 1 button and you just say that it can't be converted into a button pressing game, when apart from being ambiguous, all the games are based on pressing buttons, I'm not talking about pressing more or less, but rather making the fights last longer, you also talk about how a stego can oneshot allos, that is totally fine, what can't be is that dibble has almost double its weight and that there are almost no dinos that can cope with it (can oneshot or kill almost everyone he can fight vs dibble with with 2 trashs and is very easy to hit with cc), the only carn dino with more than 2 tons It is allo, deino and rex are apex, while the herbs have dibble, maia and stego, with a lot of weight, and have a sub apex, the carnvs don't even have a sub apex, if they put the counterpart or opponent that can fight against that herb it would be perfect, but it is very uneven.
I have told you about fights that are possible, carno vs teno is totally viable, it isn't a fight that I can't take, cera vs dibble too (that is why they have increased the weight and damage so much), but which group can kill 10 maias? What group can kill 6 dibbles?

[raw hedge]

Idk what you wanna hear.
I like the new systems. I like the idea of a camera change if it works.
Not everyone shares your opinion

[limber hull]

there's a pretty noticable reason for that

horde test is not viewed as a "test" but rather "GET NEW CONTENT EARLY!!!"

it's why when an update comes out that DOESN'T add a new dino or some new shiny thing, no one cares, and if there's a controversial or unfinished addition, people act like it's the end of the world

[obsidian jetty]

who...would even think that the test branch of the beta version of an early access game...had unfinished things? unfathomable...

[lofty pumice]

They removed colors and said they were working on a system? Took them MONTHS to get back to that and they just made it worse again? It’s hard to trust it when it takes them months if not years to actually implement stuff and leave everything half finished in the main branch

They can test all they want but at least give us more colors to work with to actually test it. It’s not that hard to make a gradient more diverse trust me, it doesn’t need to be the same gradient color it won’t kill the game like all the other bugs

It’s not that odd people don’t like things being changed over and over again especially when we were just getting used to the previous change.

[raw hedge]

Good raptors can win those fights. Good Troodons can win those fights.
I say that btw cause I’ve done it.
The game is not meant to be fair. It’s a survival game. Not a Dino fighting game.
So ofc a huge herd of herbi will be nigh untouchable.
Ofc we don’t have a lot of playables rn, they will be adding in more as the game develops.
But fr, if you think over in a few seconds, is different from the POT button and ability mashing in terms of balance or fun, it’s not.
Just play to the strengths of your Dino more. Learn what fights you’re good at.
You don’t have to fight everyone you see.
Play the game like it’s a survival game, and try to have fun with the experience

[wild quarry]

also the fact that its just been repeatedly taking away from what you can do instead of adding like the gradient system barely has a hue shift and you can no longer tweak brightness or saturation.

[raw hedge]

It takes months cause they have a lot they are working on. And it’s a pretty small team all things considered

[lofty pumice]

So? Then don’t change stuff all the time if the new mechanics aren’t ready. The color system was the last thing that needed this it was absolutely fine. They could have completed the color hue system before adding it to HT with more colors and more polished (without removing the previous colors) like what r we supposed to be testing? There is no colors to pick

Them being a small team is a personal choice this game grew immensely since the last HT as well.

[paper galleon]

a survival game is a fighting game for survival.
I only said a few, not all, obviously there are more tell us, but I gave clear examples, I repeat that I only take the fights that the game is considered can be done, not the ones that I want, who thinks can kill a rex by being dibble or something like that? I want fights not killing herbs as if it were food delivery, I want herbs fight, I want it to feel like what it is, a survival game from which the one who takes advantage and has fewer errors wins, but with gastro reg and tactile endurance it is complicated

[raw hedge]

They’re testing the skin system.
Not the colors.
They will give us our options once they know what works and what doesn’t

[raw hedge]

I’ve seen dibbles kill younger Rex’s…
And though yeah, you might be fighting for survival, but not everything is built to fight. Some things are built to run, or to deter a fight.
Stego isn’t a brawler, it’s a punisher to things that get too close (as an example)

Survival doesn’t mean kill or fights are the only survival methods.
Some things in the game I just meant to run around the map and hang out,
Hypsi isn’t a fighter lmao
Galli isn’t either.
It just sounds like you want to be able to fight more things, and feel like you have the best move set based off of whatever you like to play.
But some things are just not meant to fight “equally”
I play Troodon, I have since 6.5
I’ve soloed most things (minus a prime Rex)
But most players wouldn’t really attempt that, because of how long it takes and what you have to do to make it happen.
There are different ways to play a survival game, and I don’t think just saying “every fight should be equal” without understanding that there are just some things you can’t fight against so you have to run, or leave it alone.
This isn’t even about skill issue or anything like that, it’s just matchups. If you want a game or you can fight everything no matter what POT is probably a better fit, but I know that this game has such a cool combat system, that once you get hooked on it, it’s impossible to leave. But you can’t force everybody to adhere to your ideal play style.

I guess what I’m trying to say is that you can’t make every flight equal off of stats and balance alone*. The way you play is going to change how you can use a dino kit and mechanics to your favor or advantage.
Some people play this game for the survival aspect of being able to run away from everything and being able to survive no matter what tries to kill you. Obviously, some people play to kill things, but you can’t force everyone to stick to only one side of the game when it’s based around how somebody wants to experience their survival. Not everyone wants to fight, so you can’t force everybody to, but you have to give people mechanics to be able to defend themselves should fights arise.
It’s far more thrilling to me at least, when I win a fight where I’m at a disadvantage, but that’s just me

[languid patio]

Hello, when I try to join a server, after a short loading screen, the game displays the game menu again (I tried deleting the config folder but it still doesn't work).

[raw hedge]

HT servers are buggy rn.
Sometimes that happens to me and just reinstall the live branch after swapping to another.
There are also no queues rn so that might be why you keep getting booted

[paper galleon]

sorry, who's talking about young rexes? you imply what you want instead of talking about adult vs adult.
you still don't understand what I'm telling you, third time I've told you that I'm telling you fights that you can fight, stop saying that some fights you can't fight when the examples I give you are precisely so that it is understood that they can be fought, what are you telling me about fights that I can't take when no one is talking to you about it?.
I don't want to fight against everything I see, you are neither reading nor paying attention to what I write, do you see too much tik tok or how your dopamine works? It's been 2 times since I have to write to you again that the only thing I just wants more longer fights, I don't want them to be totally fair, I just want it not to be pressing 1 button and oneshot vs something that has more or less the same weight as you, rex vs rex seems like a fight you shouldn't take? I just don't understand what you're talking about, are you even talking to me? because I'm hesitating.
Then you tell me obvious things, plus I can't force anyone to fight, that's what some herbs are for, I haven't said that all herbs should fight, as you said, there are some to pass the time, but most of them are for interact or fight against other dinos, that's what this game is about, if you want a game in which you can see the map, there are more or a few, but I keep telling you that I am talking to you about something specific and you are only talking about something general that no one has asked.

[languid patio]

What is live ?

[limber hull]

the sentient robot i kept trapped in my basement, never to see the sun or access any database, forced to listen to random conversations without context:

[languid patio]

-_-

[raw hedge]

Maybe you’re not understanding me.
Don’t need to start insulting people lmfao.
Some things are just bigger and stronger. So they will kill quicker.
Everything has its own moveset. And it’s meant to lean into how a Dino would fight.
What I can’t wrap my head around is how you “want fights to be longer”
Do you:
Want things to deal less damage overall?
Do you want longer cooldowns between attacks?
Do you want things to have more options to fight in their kit?

More of the herbivores are bigger than the carni Dino’s.
So they have more hp, and because they’re bigger they deal more damage.
If you make things easier to fight, then they can’t defend themselves.
The point of herbivores is that they have a better chance at winning a fight when they use their kit. Otherwise they’d just die to things bigger than them.
It’s a Survival game.
The fights are not meant to be fair bro.
That’s why Rex (if it catches you) will crush, break your bones, and make it harder for you to run away.
That’s why stego can’t really run things down, but excels at killing packs of animals hunting it since it’s slower, and has to defend itself and punish other things.
You can in fact make fights longer, just don’t get hit and die lmao.
You just don’t like having to work around the target you’re hunting. You want things to be trading hits, and make fights about hp, dpm, etc.
you don’t understand what the game is actually about because you want fights to be fair which to you means longer ig.
But that can’t happen cause the balance of the game just won’t allow it.

[raw hedge]

Sorry lol
Was replying to the other dude.
There’s the horde test and Evrima.
You can select the branch you want to play by going to the games properties etc.
evrima is the “live” branch. Or the most updated public one

[languid patio]

Okay, so how do I fix the problem? Do I just wait for it to resolve itself, or do I need to do something since it's my PC?

[raw hedge]

Not sure.
Try swapping between branches.
That’ll uninstall and reinstall the game versions.
I don’t think it’s a PC issue, but in never hurts to try and reinstalling the game to see if that fixes it.

[languid patio]

ok I test

[raw hedge]

Good luck.
I think #🔧-evrima-troubleshooting-🔧 would also be a good place to look for help if that doesn’t work.
The folks in there are more knowledgeable about that

[languid patio]

ok ty

[mighty girder]

@honest helm @cosmic thorn its literally still wip and doesnt have any themes beyond default yet, how can you call it disappointing when its not even 25% finished yet 😂

[wooden agate]

how dare we get the first iteration of a skin system we knew would be rather restrictive when it first came out

how dare they get the foundation working before expanding the colors. just irresponsible...!

[raw hedge]

It is funny how people get upset about things that are wip.
Especially when they don’t know why they were limited in the first place.
I am excited to see how they come out

[wild quarry]

were not mad because its unfinished in hordetesting but rather there's a good chance it'll be put into live still unfinished and broken and we'll have to live with it for months but god forbid people give feedback that isn't sucking on boots huh?

[raw hedge]

Its colors. On a Dino. In a survival game.
That’s been in development.
For 10 years.
Things will suck here and there but they are trying

[wild quarry]

all of your subscribers come from that dino survival game so I thought you'd care a little more about it but ok

[limber hull]

then get mad when it releases to live unfinished

why also waste energy on getting mad before there's the actual thing to be mad about?

and if it does get finished, then there's no issue, and we can move on

you're pre-determining something to be upset about before you know its going to be the case

[raw hedge]

I do care.
But I don’t care that much about color schemes.
And I’ve been around for a long time too. So I know the game gets borked very often lmao.
No need to try and “YouTube” shame me or bring that up.
They don’t watch me just cause of the game, but the experience I have and the things I can do.

[raw hedge]

Hey! We agree for once 😂
Mark the date lol

[limber hull]

i wouldn't be happy if this system was pushed to live right now, i'll say that much, but i don't expect it to be

if it does, mark me on team "what the hell" alongside you, but until then, I'm going to leave my expectations for live at a neutral and neither be too negative or positive

[paper galleon]

do you know that if they do a little less damage in general, all the dinos, the fights last longer? do you know that if you make them weigh a little less, they will necessarily need a team of 6 in a group? as you have already told me, being 6 is almost immortal, what kind of survival game is that?.
you aren't really understanding what I'm telling you, idk how to make it clearer, I have 2,6k hours in the game and more that I will have and I love the game, I don't know what you're talking about the game isn't for me, you just don't where the air is giving you, idk where you're going with that thought xd.
you repeat that it is a survival game when I have already explained to you what it really is, but well, you continue with your thinking, maybe thinking isn't for you
Trike can delete a rex with 2 trashs, you last 15 seconds in a fight, you can play it better or worse, but you really only last 4 clicks (you have to double click to do the attack XD), rex vs rex is the same, the fight really lasts 20 seconds, the first one to break the other's legs wins, it doesn't matter if you have full life, it doesn't make sense, stego vs utahs or stego vs allos is fine, no one is talking to you about that, In fact, stego usually wins against allos, the only thing stego is afraid vs rexes, since there are no right now that can really kill him in a more balanced way, so the game is balanced this way:
I choose a dino, buff damage and life and now you can fight vs him (the perfect example of cera XD), that's all.
herbs can still win with a little less damage and health, almost all of them do 500 damage, and only a apex and cera have that dmg, I don't want stego to have less damage, you are just saying things I haven't said.

[raw hedge]

So this is where imma just have to tell you that you’re not looking at the game the right way.
You want fair fights. But you can’t have that in this game cause it’s not what the games about.
It’s a game that lets players do whatever they want.
You want things balanced around fighting.
That’s not what this game is about.
Yes, fighting happens in a survival game.
No, that’s not all this game is about.
It’s a game about an island of man made dinosaurs with some pharmaceutical company watching and documenting the ecosystem they are creating.
Herbivores are gonna live in packs.
Carnivores will single out solo, younger, weaker targets.
That’s just life.
If you want fights to last longer, don’t get hit. Don’t die lol.
They don’t need to nerf or change the damage on the herbis all around.
Maybe changes for speed, stamina and attack speed.
But not damage and hp.

Cause here’s the thing you can’t seem to understand.
The fights are not meant to be fair, you have to outplay them. Make them miss attacks if you’re solo.
Pack up with randoms, or friends if you have them.
This is not a fighting game nor should it ever be one.

Don’t trade hits. Hit and don’t get hit.

Damage and stats are the silliest things to focus on. Cause there’s more to this game than “who clicks better”

[paper galleon]

simply telling you that if you reverse the roles it would be stupid in the same way, it seems that you use gpt chat or something because you haven't given a good answer to what I've asked lol

[timber ore]

I don’t think the issue is the fact that the dinosaurs do a lot of damage or have a lot of health
I think the issue is the players thinking that once they engage the fight, they don’t stop until one person is dead
If you want longer fights, then make the longer fights yourself
Bait your opponent into burning through their stamina
Push them to run to bleed out
Back them into a corner until they make reckless decisions to attack or run
The game isn’t the problem, it’s how you decide to play it
If you want longer fights so badly then maybe utilize your environment to wear them out instead of expecting the devs to adapt to your play style

[paper galleon]

look at the context xD

[raw hedge]

Bro.
Want your fights to last longer?
Don’t die lmao
Tryna say someone uses chat gpt to respond to you when you’re argument just sucks dumb.
You never asked anything
You made a dumb statement that “if things did less damage things die slower?”
Yeah. But if you played the game you’d know that the game isn’t just about trading hp.
Don’t get hit. You’re at this point just admitting to skill issue buddy. Especially with the middle school insults

[paper galleon]

before you spend more energy putting the same thing back on, I've told you 20 times that I agree with that, it doesn't have to be fairer, but it doesn't have to be hell either, it's a game after all, you're absolutely right, but making them have 30 tons more and 3k more damage is not unfair, it is simply artificial difficulty

[timber ore]

…my advice still applies? A Rex can still bait a trike to exhaustion and vice versa

[raw hedge]

Not at all “artificially unfair”
It’s called a hardcore game.
It’s meant to be difficult.

[paper galleon]

ig I have to use insults like "chocolate jam" or something like that, they are simply an addition, I find them funny XD, but you still don't understand that the only dynamism of a fight is usually the carn when I want both of them to have it

[paper galleon]

sure, but not in rex vs rex

[timber ore]

It’s possible for all of the playables
It’s dependent on the skill level of the player

[paper galleon]

look the context again

[raw hedge]

“Look out guys! He’s using bigger words to sound more photosynthesis!”

Your point has been heard. It’s just not a good point.
Not everything in the game is meant to be played the same way
They aren’t meant to fight the same way
So they shouldn’t trade blows like it’s fair.
It should be easier to win a fight as a herbi. That’s cause they usually have attacks that would actually deal a mess-ton of damage.
4 ton Maia stomps on your head? Probably not gonna be walking too well after that.
Trike gores you? Might be hard to walk with your innards spilling 😂
The game is not about fair fights. You can’t wrap that around your head and that’s fine if we have to agree to disagree lol
But you can’t make an argument for longer fights and nerf only herbivores for damage.
More people play carnivores anyways. So herbis have to stand a chance against packs, so them having an easier time killing things is fine to help them enjoy the game too

[timber ore]

Do you even know what the context is? Because I’m starting to think that you don’t

[fading forum]

out of genuine curiosity does anyone have a good idea as to why they’d release the skin system when it’s not even like. halfway done… wouldn’t it make more sense to send it out when it’s done? or at least mostly done

[raw hedge]

Cause they’re testing it
Better for them to test in stages rather than all at once.
Especially with how nesting, mutations, and entombing could mess with it.

[fading forum]

to be fair, i do believe damage being lowered across the board would probably help the game being a bit more fun. not to say a raptor should be perfectly fine after taking a few hits from a trike, but i think the most fun i’ve had fighting wise was in the spiro map as a cerato against a bunch of raptors. might not be super ‘realistic’ but it made the game pretty fun. if anything i think particularly fights between apexes would be nicer if they lasted longer, just because it really sucks to get into a fight with one just to die like 5 minutes later, or less. and that’s for either side— you can’t really make that fight last much longer without it being some awkward stalemate like someone keeping their back against a rock or just standing ontop of one yknow

[fading forum]

i suppose thag makes sense 🥸

[raw hedge]

It just depends on the fight.
Having things just be a “click to kill” system really isn’t all that fun.
But this game is also just not built to be a fighting kind of game.
With mechanics like pounce, pins and grapple, alt attacks and dinos with various move sets, there has to be advantages to using certain attacks against certain creatures.
Damage already does decrease as your health pool goes down.
It’s just that there aren’t a lot of things that are in the exact same weight category.
And when you add more numbers into the mix, it adds to the horror that is natural in a survival game.
The debs are trying to make this game into something more than just a but matching survival game, which is why it is both so punishing, and so unfair in certain situations.
Solo players will almost always be outmatched, even with decreased damage. You also have to look at it from the point of view that not everything can deal the same amount of damage for its size.
That’s partially the reason why all the bigger dinos have much larger attack values if everything scaled equally based off of weight in terms of damage, things like the stego swing, dibble topple, teno tail slam, all that would not deter things from fighting it since it costs stamina to do special attacks, whereas carnivores can bite without stamina cost if they don’t alt attack.
There’s just so much that would have to be changed in order for that sort of balance to be achieved with less damage.

There’s also the fact that some things just hunt differently,
Irl, it’s not about who lands the most bites, but sets up the “killing blow”
Like crushing windpipe or breaking necks etc

[fading forum]

don’t worry, i do still understand the realism aspect and the punishing of certain things, but i suppose what i mean is gameplay wise certain things just make the game less fun. i’d figure the ‘click to kill’ wouldn’t exactly be as blank as it sounds, since itwould still depend on skill. but i dunno, i don’t intend to argue but just a little debate on the matter 😛 im hoping they add a counterplay tocwhen ur pinned/ crushed. i don’t mean like a dibble should be able to escape a grown trex, but i think it extra Sucks if you’re something of similar size to an allo or said rex (depending on the age) and you get pinned down and can do basically nothing

[icy lion]

@upbeat pulsar Use #🐞-evrima-bug-reports-🐞 to report bugs, don't repost the same thing, and it's fixed in hordetesting

[raw hedge]

Oh I agree. Some things are just overtuned etc.
My main* love for the combat in this game is how it’s not linear tho.
It’s harsh, pins suck especially with how some things feel inescapable, or are easy routes to victory.
I do think it would be worth adjusting things so that fights are about setting up your finisher, or there being more conditions to grapples, a bucking rework, increased stam costs, and more reliance on landing some bites/attacks to help make the fights more dynamic.
But I just don’t think it’s good to just go down the damage route. I’d prefer an adherence to something’s theme.
But there’s also the balance of fun/skill expression. So this will always be up in the air until all playables actually have something fun to do, and makes surviving fights as rewarding as winning them.

[cursive crane]

Thanks Devs for fixing the ping

[arctic dust]

sorry if this isn't the right channel but it happened on EU4 and now EU8, where my game crashes and now I can't even get into either server despite if there is room, even after a full restart of the game, is there anyway to fix this?

of course right after I complain I get get on EU8, though idk about EU4 since that was giving me issues yesterday. Still dont know why I crashed either time but at least I still have my dino

[raw hedge]

#🔧-evrima-troubleshooting-🔧
Best place to go. If you’re on the HT it’s been buggy though

[arctic dust]

ah okie ty!

[blissful atlas]

regarding the skins issues.

[icy lion]

@jagged trench

[broken fulcrum]

Hah I just came in to see about the odd skins. i do like the range of colors being available though. reminds me of an older multiplayer game i used to frequent.

[raw hedge]

I think it could be cool, I’ve yet to actually get home and see it yet, but I’m excited to see what it looks like.
I can’t wait until I get my “Bloo Baller” (trademark pending) Troodon skin again

I hope it adds more customization as well.
Does anyone think if the themes might also have influence on spawns down the road?
Ie, skins themed on biomes/regions?
the spawning system would need a lot of overhaul tho. We saw what happened on spiro when people could pick spawns

[raw hedge]

@finite gale “so much more better” lol
Poking fun at grammar aside, I believe that the icons were changed for diets because of stuff that they’re gonna be adding down the road. I think automatically it works better with their overall lore, since it is a pharmaceutical company that created the dinos on the isle, and I believe it will be tied to strains and other mutated versions down the road.
It would be nice if unofficial servers could possibly toggle the older UI format.

I do miss the old look and feel though. I also miss the fact that you could hover over your stamina and other icons in the bottom right to see percentages. Now you have to press enter like you’re typing in chat to be able to freely move the mouse over

[icy lion]

@signal jetty Please use #🐞-evrima-bug-reports-🐞 to submit bugs and issues you find

[rare wasp]

does anyone know if the pinslop will ever be addressed or reworked its boring

[cinder wave]

@vapid basalt It's not worse, I think the weather is just changeable now and it was cloudy when you took the photos

[raw hedge]

It will be getting some work on it. Retaliation, and the bucking system will be getting reworked as well.
But the term “pinslop” is just so funny to me lol.
I hate how it’s easy to pin and grapple some things don’t get me wrong.
But imo it’s fine to have some pins and grapples in the game. But they def have to be tuned a bit more.
Allo being so heavy is part of the reason it is busted. As well as its low stam cost to pin things. But it’s been a thing since raptor, it’s only an issue now cause it affects more people.

[icy lion]

@fleet shard

[mighty girder]

@limber crater

[limber crater]

Phew aight nice. The question re: 10-16 palettes is still relevant tho

[lilac bolt]

where did you see the 10-16 palettes get talked about?

[minor sentinel]

@storm aurora you do know that 1. the devs wanted to remove the health monitor. And 2. Don said that you can press enter, get your mouse, and hover over it and see it, right?

[fleet shard]

so basically a placeholder?

also cute kitty pfp

[fleet shard]

@crisp tide

[blissful atlas]

@crisp tide
#isle-discussion message

well. that worked out then. lol

[crisp tide]

Yes?

@blissful atlas @fleet shard

[blissful atlas]

just a link to how the skins aren't done. and the devs acknowledged that.

[crisp tide]

based on past.... promises... the devs have made to us im not very hopeful

[blissful atlas]

ok then. (these are from the past 24 hours, but go how you feel.)

[crisp tide]

but thats just me i think the system was fine the way it was and didnt need a change or atleast give us the option to use the old system

[limber hull]

i feel like pre-determining being upset before the system has even gone live, or hell, there's even been enough time to update the system itself, is a pretty exhausting way to approach it

its trapped on a testing branch, it won't see the light of day until the update goes live onto EVRIMA, and by then it hopefully will see more colour and skin diversity

[crisp tide]

Yeah releasing it peice by peice slowly is just giving us less to work with atm..

[limber hull]

releasing it piece by piece is also good to understand any problems with the fundamental functionality before fleshing it out with more complexity

like people have already discovered ways to break this system, which means the devs can work on that, since there's less variables to worry about causing the issues

but in terms of "limiting colour variety", that's actually the exact opposite of their goals

[crisp tide]

good point i just hope this system gives us as much variety and colors to work with as the current and they dont make the palettes more dull

[raw hedge]

They pretty much stated already that they’ll have 10 to 16 color pallets to choose from which is quite a lot if you think about it.
I did find out how to get the other patterns too on the board test so you’re not stuck with just pattern A

[limber hull]

i hear this "10 to 16" statistic thrown around a lot but i haven't really seen anything on that, could you quote the message it was said for me?

[raw hedge]

I think it was posted a little bit earlier. I’ll see if I can find it.

[raw hedge]

K so I can’t find it but someone else did apparently.
Let me find it tomorrow, ping me if someone doesn’t find it for you before hand I gotta crash.

[signal geode]

#general-feedback message
I honestly dont want any More spar lock bs to this game

[snow dock]

Would not mind it if it was stamina intensive to maintain similar to pin and punished if you did not make a move so people dont just lock in a grapple to have packmates get free hits in.
Kinda like old pounce where it eats away stamina

[harsh sun]

#general-feedback message idk what you're talking about.

The game still looks amazing

[limber hull]

i think its because they readded weather and cloudy days don't have this kind of sunlight, people are reacting as if the lighting was scrapped

[storm aurora]

1. i assumed so and that was stupid, and 2 yes i know i can but its just more inconvenient

[languid patio]

what is this ???

Why can't I eat?

[floral niche]

There’s a limit to how much food relative to your size you can swallow

[junior nymph]

@storm aurora the pallete we have right now is literally just a proof of concept, it also helps iron out the bugs before bringing in the whole thing, ive heard the 10-16 pallete are done but im not entirely sure, and we have seen the bugs already with the black skins and the very bright ones like my godzilla allo

[urban flax]

https://tenor.com/view/run-godzilla-run-its-godzilla-austin-powers-goldmember-gif-25863420

[junior nymph]

facts

[modern tide]

I can see what they are going for and I totally agree, it should be diverse without being a mess

As a placeholder I can live with it

[junior nymph]

its also cool, as it allows nesters to pick and mix different pallets for completely unique skins

[raw hedge]

But once they fix it so that people can’t just make own skin codes and values, there’s a rhetorical 10-16 that this person came up with.
Based on probably a combo of color themes etc but I honestly do not know. I’ll ask em if they are ok with a tag

[modern tide]

It is, but let me ask you this - what is the point of introducing a placeholder to a hordetest? Do they like to be called out? I mean I can see what they are aiming for, but you don't need a degree in social science to be aware that if you introduce it to the wider audience they just gonna call it bs. It's like with the elite fish being picked by pteras. I know (or at least I hope) they are way too competent to leave it like this, but if they just add it to HT ppl gonna go mad

[junior nymph]

I understand that, but its also like a hordetest, like its for testing

[raw hedge]

Do you not know what testing branches and servers are for?
They test things to see if they work and if they have obvious bugs so they can be fixed before it goes live lol

[modern tide]

Isn't it also for getting feedback or am I completely mistaken? If that's the case then well.. You've got tons of useless feedback now

and you don't need to look further than to general feedback to see if it did any good

[junior nymph]

they did say that they would release the default skin pallet in the devblog

as in "hey the default does what it says on the box, its a default pallete that gives enhanced default skins"

[modern tide]

I'm not saying you should never test things, I'm just saying "If you wanna test this, just make 3-4 different palletes or themes so ppl would understand it, rather than use just two almost identical placeholders and then try to explain what any why you did. Basically all I'm saying

[frozen heron]

what is the point of introducing a placeholder to a hordetest?
The branch is called hordetest, that should explain enough

[modern tide]

Yes, man

[raw hedge]

No it’s not for feedback. It’s so devs can test systems, mechanics and playables.
They’re probably testing mainly to see how ingredients mix when people nest, how it works after two months, and if the skin coat still hold. Cause there was that period of time where people skins would get set to default on the HD, so they wanna make sure that’s not gonna happen again.
I don’t know why people get so upset when they’re literally just trying out a new system, all because it “limits their options“
Gradients are crazy, with multiple colors you can select from those gradients will give you an easier control for customization than the old skin colors did

[junior nymph]

its also feedback...

[frozen heron]

I think hordetests require feedback dude

Testing of any kind does

[raw hedge]

Lemme rephrase,
Cause yeah it looks bad now that I’m looking back at the way I worded it,
There’s a difference between feedback and how it works versus how the final system gets implemented
And if the developers want to test and run something, they don’t have to listen to all feedback equally.
It’s about, “Does this work, what are the bugs, etc”
We already know they’re gonna be implementing the system pretty much no matter what.
The feedback they’re getting is “not enough colors”
When they’re looking for feedback on how the gradient slider works, questions/idea ideas for the themes, etc.
If that makes sense

Very rarely have they ever implemented a fully functioning system in the HT first try.
Usually, it takes a couple go around fixing, tweaking in order to get it to work the way they intended

So seeing people in here, screaming and crying about the lack of colors on HT, has got to be frustrating for them if it is for me just being here as a bystander, listening to people who care more about colors than functionality in a test system

[modern tide]

Calm down then

[raw hedge]

I’ll apologize for my little snappiness.
But at the same time, you can also be told to calm down over a simple change in the HT lol
If colors is the whole reason, you play a video game for, and skins…
That’s a little silly

[modern tide]

No, that's not what I said, stay on point

[raw hedge]

Take a look,
I understand that this was probably coming from more of a, “ there aren’t enough options for there to be any real discernible differences, or changes,
But also earlier you brought up that it seems like they’re trying to get yelled at by the community for their limited color selection as “placeholders“ for a one color system that they have now
This is also why I think a lot of the HT isn’t just about feedback.
Because half the time people don’t even understand why something is being “tested” on a test branch where the entire purpose is to see if something even works, help them find bugs and issues with it.
But it definitely sounds like you’re pretty upset about.

[modern tide]

No, you want it to look like this because it would help your narration, and I get that, but as a matter of fact, I did say I see what they’re aiming at, and I totally can “buy it.” But many won’t, and all it would have taken to avoid that was either to flesh it out a bit more or (crazy, I know) not introduce it in this horde test and wait until the next one, when they’d be ready to show it properly. The way they introduced it caused the general feedback chat to get flooded with negative responses that are a) inaccurate, b) easy to avoid.

and no, no matter how many times you'd rephrase this - any playtesting in any video games is also about feedback.

Let me be clear - we are still in a "general feedback discussion" chat, remember? Don't get mad that ppl gave one.

[raw hedge]

It’s not about narrative lol
People are absolutely allowed to get their opinions and feedback, etc.
But that doesn’t mean that everything they say is 100% valid.
They’ve had issues before where they had made changes to the skin system, and it got bugged, where skins were resetting the default colors and patterns, etc.
There’s nothing wrong with them just putting in a system with a simple and single palette just for the sake of testing.
It’s a completely different skin code system, so they want to see how their system works with a gradient scale instead of just locked colors with saturation, etc.
Feedback is totally fine, but when people seem to be making assumptions and voicing opinions that are nothing but what comes across as angry takes, it seems less like feedback. I’m more like just complaining.
Too many people have been spoiled by a lot of major games with huge development teams that make a lot of systems almost fully completed before release.
This dev team knows that they have a lot of issues when they try to push stuff, so all they are looking for is make sure the system works. Then they can add all their colors and themes, etc.
Being negative and upset that it starts out as a limited selection on a testing branch doesn’t really do anything for legitimate feedback.
Especially when they’ve stated many times before that, there will be more colors and more customization coming. I’m sure it makes them feel as though sometimes the community doesn’t even listen to what they’re working on, but rather just want everything to fall into their lap, right the first time.

[limber crater]

I deconstructed how the skin codes work and there's only one digit seemingly for the Themes/Palettes. Assuming it's base 10 or base 16. I shall not elaborate.

Given that it is an assumption, it is not based on any devs saying anything. Maybe I should clarify that in the post.

That said it is funny in a sad way seeing people post garbage in skins chat instead of making cool natural looking ones but eh. I assume it's monkeys on typewriters and they don't fully understand it. Those skins look like my first few of fiddling with the codes.

Yes and no, the UI is likely mapping the gradient as generated from 2-5 colors onto a field and you selecting a point is mapping the x and y coordinates to a certain color. The gradients are extremely easy to tell how many colors there are, but the blending is in its first public iteration so I'm not pressed about it

[limber crater]

Agree tho

Disclaimer! I like art and computers but have not programmed a game and cannot speak for Afterthought Studios devs (The Isle devs) nor do I wish to

[raw hedge]

@limber hull ^ that was the person btw so my bad for assuming 10-16 was said elsewhere
I get people love customizing their things in games. But it’s always absurd the amount of backlash that happens when things are changed so they can be redone/reworked.
We all are sad we have fewer colors now
But part of that is because people go out of the way to make absurd and atrocious color combos that make it look like a 64 count crayon snack pack threw up on someone.
And seeing them get hate and criticism for something they are testing is just wild to me.
Especially when they hop on the HT just to play and “get good” at the new things.

[limber hull]

posting godawful rainbow skins ironically is only going to make it get fixed faster, since the devs made this system to avoid garish abominations

[limber hull]

ah, all good, easy mistake to make lol

you weren't the only person to say 10-16, that's why I was curious, and I thought I was on top of dev statements, but thanks for clarifying

[limber crater]

I feel like trying to "shame" devs for not locking the keys away as soon as they're made is in poor taste.

[raw hedge]

Thanks lol
Rhen is one of my resident art masters lol

[limber hull]

if monkey see, monkey do

once people figured out they could, there was never a point where they asked if they should

let them have their few days of skin fun on the HT before it gets taken away again, what's the harm?

[raw hedge]

It’s more of people just being impatient.
People just aren’t willing to wait for something to be finished before they have opinions etc.
happens with playables, gameplay loops etc

[limber crater]

LOL
Tbh I was sort of hoping they'd use math to make color palettes using color theory so that based on your first color chosen you'd get artistically definitive great color no matter what. While also indirectly teaching people color theory. But I have big eyes, and I take forever to finish projects, so my idea is probably not viable for getting results out quickly

Some websites do this already with color palettes though, to give suggestions for what looks good.
As an aside, the previous skin system limited how much you could reduce Saturation and Value but locked Hue by swatches

[raw hedge]

We know that people are gonna lose their minds tho when it gets fixed.
Already a slew of people tha will get unreasonably angry about it

[limber crater]

Based way to get engagement for skin system testing though 👀

[raw hedge]

It’s funny because the new system will have more color options and control than the current one.

At least in terms of variety and control. Maybe not in overall colors etc

[limber crater]

Definitively, the way they have it set up now appears to give great flexibility overall, and has the capacity for a variety of color channels to get mapped to.

In essence, if they use any colors for eyes in the future, they can simply elongate the codes and make the eyes a new channel. With my limited knowledge it seems plug-n-play in that regard, and with the way the data is structured.

[obsidian jetty]

@mystic cipher do you tab out of the game a lot? If so, you could try tapping alt before hitting enter to type. I've had that happen a while back and it seemed like the alt key was locked, so instead of enter, it behaved like you actually hit alt+enter.

[raw hedge]

That used to happen to me a lot as well
Although, in my case, it would make the game go window mode lol

[obsidian jetty]

mhm...very annoying ^^

[raw hedge]

I noticed it would tend to happen if you were tapping in and out of screens while the game was starting

[pale river]

@honest crypt bary is planned and should be releasing this year. Hopefully over summer but we’ll see

[honest crypt]

Damn than it's my fav

[raw hedge]

Keep in mind that even though they have a lot of the models from legacy, they have to be redone with new models, animations, etc.
Not to mention a lot of them are getting brand new mechanics, and those have to be coded from scratch now
It’s a small depth team so as long as we’re patient will be able to get the stuff that we want

[honest crypt]

Yep was just curious if we get another semi aquatic

[raw hedge]

I think they have a couple more planned as well.
They are going to be making some more map changes as well to accommodate
I’m excited to see the new map, etc.

[honest crypt]

there is a new map?

I couldnt play the game at all so idk, i got 75 hours but none of them see are in game time

[raw hedge]

There is a changed map map on the HT right now (HordeTest is the testing branch)
They are adding other biomes as well so it makes sense that new areas could be added or a new map entirely

[honest crypt]

there are gonna be desert?

[raw hedge]

Probably not.
It’s not like POT where everything‘s going to be massive and biomes that don’t exactly mesh or match each other
It is a relatively tropical island anyways. So it wouldn’t make sense for there to be such drastic changes in environment.

[honest crypt]

oh got it! seasons would be great tho like winter etc.

[urban flax]

winter on a tropical island ?

[honest crypt]

not like i mean just seasons

[raw hedge]

Also not something that would really work unfortunately.
The most they’d do is add more rainy and dry seasons.
They’ve already tabled the ideas for floods because of issues with making the meshes

[honest crypt]

that seems great, thanks for the info! do you know anything about other coming Dinos?

[raw hedge]

Not the full list, but a lot of the dev blogs on the steam page or linked in the announcements channel will have info on what’s coming out, what’s being worked on etc
For upcoming ones off the top of my head:
quetz
parasuar
bary
spino
avaceratops
giga
acro
camara
and a few others I can’t think of rn

[obsidian jetty]

you forgot the feathery bois...Austro and Ovi ^^

[raw hedge]

Lmao idk how I did but yeah.
Rip my memory

[obsidian jetty]

it's fine, I forgive you...but yes, devblogs are the best source of information for things like that.

[limber hull]

you're right on everything but giga and acro, we got nothing on them lmao

in fact, the only thing we know about giga's release is that it's quite a while away

[raw hedge]

I thought they were confirmed to be coming in at some point.

[honest crypt]

I forgot the name but there was a huge flying Dino

[limber hull]

at some point, yes, but not any time soon like the other ones you listed

[raw hedge]

Oh that was just a list of what we know “should” be coming. Ie all potential Dino’s

[junior nymph]

ovi, bary, austro, ava, cama, quetz, para, spino,

[raw hedge]

Those are just the “in active development” ones right?

[raw hedge]

That’s the quetz. That is being added

[honest crypt]

awesome

[junior nymph]

eh. those are the ones we know are in the pipeline as of right now, as in once so and so animal is done they move to something else, for example when cama is done animation work they move to spino as a priority (not saying thats going to happen just saying thats what would happen once an animal finishes whatever stage indev that it is in)

[raw hedge]

There’s still more in the full list rn tho iirc

[junior nymph]

yes. We still have like 20 ish playables before we got them all, we just dont know where they sit in the lineup

so making assumtions and getting peoples hopes up for whats to come isnt quite good especially when the devs like kissen say things like "acro and giga are quite far down"

[raw hedge]

I’m still gonna try and rule the isle as a Troodon lol
More Dino’s? You mean more victims 😈

[junior nymph]

cause when those two animals arent next people are going to freak out and say "BUT YOU SAID THE GIGA WAS COMING DEVS LIED" even though it was just someone else saying it

in a normal community that wouldnt matter. But this one is like the peak of not having a brain and just being sheeps

[honest crypt]

whats the power of giga anyways

[junior nymph]

anyway I sleep now.

[raw hedge]

I get the gut reaction a bit.
But it’s not like when they made a timeline and could stick with it (cause bugs, issues etc things outside of their control)
And that timeline just made people, angy

[raw hedge]

Night night.
Don’t let the Troodons bite

[raw hedge]

Not sure yet. Nothings been really confirmed to us as far as I’m aware.

[honest crypt]

got it

[limber hull]

its an apex bleeder is the best we got

basically, does a lot of blood related things, including possibly being very effective at tracking bleeding targets

[raw hedge]

I hope the bleed system gets reworked overall before then.
Rn, bleed feels like it does little or way too much.
Be cool to see it get a “crush” like attack that charges up to do bleed. Then lets targets try and flee while tracking.

[brave jasper]

@ornate pewter that already exists, once you press entomb press no when replicating and you go to the regular select screen

[honest crypt]

what about baryonx ?

[raw hedge]

Semi aquatic with some form of defensive stance. Likely something that does well in water, but not running things down or being an overly aggressive Dino.

[honest crypt]

that's my style then yahoo

[limber hull]

i mean, we know it'll probably be quite fast on land, given it's described as quite nimble and quick

[raw hedge]

I wonder if it just means relative to things of its size.
I hope they add acceleration and deceleration back at some point where it’s noticeable
Then things can actually feel nimble and quick etc

[ornate pewter]

Yeah, I was just thinking about the process, and remembered there were some ways to approach it that I never do. Good catch.

[limber hull]

i wouldn't be surprised if it were near cera speed, if not rivalling it, since i doubt bary is winning that fight head-to-head

[mighty girder]

Id be surprised if bary is as fast as cera

[raw hedge]

Idk. I think it might be as fast if not slower by a tad. Just to make it rely on water a bit more and the defensive stance

I think its stance will be like cera charge bite.
“Come at me if you want, you know it’ll hurt”

[dusk wigeon]

What in the world is going on with the skin system

[mighty girder]

It has a bug where you can do any color atm. And isle players adore their crayola.

[raw hedge]

New system.
People tryna abuse it
And they wonder why we can’t have nice things

[dusk wigeon]

Hhhhh

I love the bright colors, so sad

[mighty girder]

Thats what unofficials are for

[raw hedge]

Not the crayon colors tho.
Looks weird imo

[dusk wigeon]

No, I mean for markings an accents. The super bright flashy ones are wild, but it is nice to have access to more ranges 🫠

[mighty girder]

We’ll get more ranges, rn the system is just in “is it functional mode”. Expansion comes afterwards