general-feedback-discussion

[rough abyss]

@limber hull Stego main crying about raptors that he can oneshot. How easy would you like the game to be for you?

[limber hull]

oh i dont play stego

[latent olive]

wavepoole the infamous stegosaurus main

[limber hull]

i dont particularly like slow animals

i just think it looks dumb

you tell me in full confidence that the raptor violently clipping through the plates of the stegosaurus doesn't look exceptionally stupid and we can go from there i guess

i play troodon so technically i'm putting myself at a disadvantage by suggesting it lol

[limber hull]

it's genuinely so funny to me that people take this as a "stego main" issue and not a "this looks genuinely garbage" issue

[rough abyss]

I value PvP balance more than realism

[limber hull]

pvp balance wise, there's no reason stego should be hunted by raptor beyond the limited roster. Stego is the ultimate flank defender, designed to deal with animals like raptor with ease, hence the vulnerable head and lack of any resistances.

i think raptor should honestly be hunting creatures like maias, dibbles, trikes or shants, where they can take advantage of exposed flanks and properly hunt them, rather than hunting the thing with tools perfected to simply slapping them away and instantly killing them

i've always felt that raptor and stego PvP has always been super forced because it was the only big herbivore, which is more the fault of it being added so early and before any other big herbis

[mild isle]

tbf I think it looks okay clinging to stego from the side but it looks silly clinging from the back- like one white/grey raptor in the photo is literally inside a stego plate lol

[summer geode]

@limber hull why are you against an anti-mixpack mechanic?

No one likes mixpacks except mixpackers

And if you want to mixpack and be bored out of your mind, you could always go to a private server with said mechanic disabled

[limber hull]

that's what i'm saying

[limber hull]

because generally anti-mixpack mechanics will be used more by mixpackers than against them.

get your discord friend to walk up and debuff a herbi, make them easier to kill, then finish the job once they're debuffed

a lot of creatures are too fast for the herbi to hit so they can just stay in the range

[summer geode]

I believe-

Increased water and hunger drain + spasms + infertility + reduced damage

Combats that. There's no way a mixpack would benefit from those

[gentle flint]

Because it’d be hilarious to follow people around as something small and fast that can never hit you, just in order to debuff someone and potentially take away from their normal gameplay.

[limber hull]

it would. you debuff and discord call your friend over to kill the debuffed herbi

[faint folio]

I totally don't disagree that honestly troo/Utah really just ought not to be targeting stego in the first place... However I have a couple points.

First, it kinda just looks like the Omni latch points on stego need to be pulled down lower on the body. It's a visual issue (looks wonky), not necessarily a gameplay issue. Although I do think the whole plates think should prevent the Omni from switching sides (which would soft support that stego isn't something Omni should pounce even if it can).

Second, allo has "pounce" in some capacity and has been shown to have latch points on stego. I assume allo probably will get stego on their diet, as there's reasonable evidence they did have a predator prey relationship irl. There will probably be some wonky visuals for that too

[summer geode]

Then it's hurting both the harassing troll and the herbi

[limber hull]

the troll can be like a random troodon they don't care lol

if they debuff a big-ass stego or something, and they call over their rex friend to murder it, they're happy

[summer geode]

Make how fast it is based on the wight of the other creature. Problem solved.

Single troo? Not an issue

10+ raptors? Issue

[limber hull]

then if a stego protects raptors, it can keep doing that? it won't get debuffs after all

even if the raptor gets debuffs, the stego can body deny for it to allow it to eat safely

[summer geode]

No?

[limber hull]

but it's much heavier

[summer geode]

Both groups gain the debuff at the same rate, based on combined weight.

A pack of troos would take wayyyyyyy longer to give the debuff and receive it

[limber hull]

there's also the easy option of just nipping your raptor friend for a small bit of damage to reset the timer

[gentle flint]

It also doesn’t help in situations where you’re attempting to hide. Just wait around an area and see if you get a debuff, and congratulations, you know someone is in there area for you to hunt now.

[limber hull]

one nip every once in a while and the timer resets

[summer geode]

If it goes on long enough that'd just be delaying the max debuff penalty

You seem to be arguing for no system to be in place

[limber hull]

i am, because i've yet to see a system that can't be weaponised by the people it's supposed to combat

[summer geode]

close proximity

Not "across the pond in a bush hiding"

[limber hull]

then just split up the mixpack every once in a while lol

[mild isle]

mixpacking is like- so hard, if not impossible to prevent.
It was on legacy too.
Without implementing features similiar to BoB (Which would make The Isle into something completely different) it's nearly impossible 😭

It's something I just learned to deal with ig

[gentle flint]

Yeah, which you could then just.. walk away from for a bit. Mix packers aren’t usually up each others butts all the time, it’s more like a pack of ceras with a Stego across the field that they can run to.

[summer geode]

So you enjoy mixpacks and don't acknowledge that they are one of the top complaints besides technical issues?

[limber hull]

i agree. it's an exceptionally complex issue with even more complex solutions. i've yet to see a good one after so long

[limber hull]

no, i dont particularly like mixpacks

rather boring to deal with

[summer geode]

If you spend x mins around a stego over a period of y hours and don't bite it then the debuff begins to accrue

So it wouldn't be a simple "Oh time to walk away for 10s and come back"

[summer geode]

Wouldnt*

[summer geode]

And yet you are against any mechanic preventing them

[limber hull]

i can be both

[summer geode]

What's your idea then? Admins doing it manually 24/7??

[gentle flint]

Still doesn’t help with casual passersby, if I walk past a bush 10 times and suddenly hit the right amount of seconds, I’m very acutely aware that someone is in the bush

[faint folio]

Step 1: get friend A to hop on dilo (or carno) and kite around your chosen herbivore prey option.
Step 2: Friend A and prey gets slapped with mixpack debuffs.
Step 3: Gather friends B, C, D, E on their favourite carnivore the next area over. Get them in a separate group from friend A.
Step 4: Use discord to rendezvous with friend A and the prey
Step 5: "third party" and destroy the debuffed herbivore because the group technically wasn't mix packing and has entered "combat" with the "mixpack group".
Step 6: have friend A back off and get out of the way of the fight, then return to eat.

EZPZ

[limber hull]

The issue isn't something that can just be "solved" that easily. That's the problem with it. There's no easy solution to it because it's such a multi-facated component of player behaviour

[summer geode]

Not seconds- minutes. You'd have to be near that bush for a solid % of the time you are online playing.

[summer geode]

Sounds like a contrarian fence sitting answer tbh

A debuff will be involved. There's no other way.

[limber hull]

There doesn't need to be a debuff lol. I don't subscribe to the "no other way" ideology

We already have "pack scent", so I'd prefer working on something like that. For instance, players are given a warning when in the range of a mixpack without even needing to smell, so then they can sniff the air, locate the mixpack, and avoid it

Not giving mixpacks the satisfaction of having anyone to actually fight is a pretty strong way to fight it

Because it plays into the player psychology of a mixpacker

[summer geode]

Friend A and yourself both gain the debuff, and the damage debuff/infertility is permanent.

Plus, it'd take more time than simply killing the herbi to get it.

And, in order for you to effectively kite you'd have to be pretty quick and small- meaning it'd take even longer.

So congrats, you effectively spent over an hour ruining your dinos to kill a single player for someone else.

[limber hull]

They wanna feel unbeatable and strong, so by letting people just avoid them, they don't get that

[mild isle]

Random rant on the matter (I'm kind of distracted so not fully reading)
but some situations can look like mixpacking when they really aren't?
Like for example, raptors attacking a stego, cera see raptors attacking stego, they attack raptors- not because they're mixing with the stego but because the raptors are distracted and easy kill

It's a whole complex thing and not just as simple as "mixpackers" at times- it is a survival game after all and dinos may establish "truces" or whatever to survive and just leave each other alone
I've seen ceras/raptors/dilos team up to kill a stego, but then fight over the body after as well- they weren't technically mixpacking or knew each other they were just all hungry and the truce benefited them in the moment

[summer geode]

That's a cope answer.

Every day I see herbi/cera packs guided to players by a ptera or troo scouting.

[limber hull]

how is that a cope answer lmao

[summer geode]

Ffs a week ago I was chased for 45 mins by a teno/ptera/carno/troo pack.

[faint folio]

No, because friend A and the group weren't grouped, and the group of non-mixpacking carnivores didn't spend an extended period of time near friend A or the herbivore without combat occuring

[limber hull]

Also how tf you gonna debuff the ptera if it's a small radius???

[summer geode]

"If we just ignore them the problem will go away"

Except it won't, and they'll just switch up strategies and chase everything down, forcing the fight

[limber hull]

It's not ignoring them lol

[summer geode]

"I don't think any system can ever be implemented and I like the way things are now"

[limber hull]

It's literally revealing their position so that people can avoid the mixpack and they don't get the satisfaction of actually exploiting the fact that they're a mixpack

I literally just suggested a system

[gentle flint]

A lot of mixpackers don’t care that they would be debuffed if it means the rest of their team gains an advantage, you’re assuming these people have self preservation in mind instead of carnage

[limber hull]

That doesn't debuff innocent players

[limber hull]

^

Allowing players a heads up of mixpackers would mean they don't get the carnage nearly as much

Which is literally the only objective motivation they have

[summer geode]

So fiend A ruined his Dino + wasted hours to grief one player one time for someone else....

I can't roll my eyes any harder

[gentle flint]

People literally do that? Especially cheaters who don’t care lmao

[faint folio]

Yes... You act like the isle players have only one account per person (most I know have alts, so "ruining a dino" isn't an issue- it's just the throw away account). And yeah, I've seen isle players (Utah pack) spend 30 min to an hour in a standoff with a stego hoping they have a meal at the end. I could see them doing it

[limber hull]

yup. you give a lot of credit to the self-preservation of a mixpacker lol

[summer geode]

Then it's still a win for the server as a whole.

The troll is forced to perform an incredibly time consuming activity to grief a single person, that might not even succeed.

Much much much better then "lol let's just chase everything together 24/7 and KoS all other players"

[limber hull]

they don't really care, they generally have clan accounts that they share to instantly respawn

[faint folio]

Then, if you have enough friends you could do that 2-3 times all staggered and have a reliable source of easy chow

[summer geode]

None of them would get the advantage tho.... they'd all be infertile and deal less damage + drain hunger/water faster AND have spasms....

[mild isle]

Not to mention me and a few others I know of just have a tendency to throw away fg dinos to play something else- I feel like griefing before just throwing away the dino would be better than launching off cliff

[limber hull]

^

[mild isle]

I like the mixpacking symbol a lot more- I sniff a lot so unless the mixpack is RIGHT on you, it seems like if there's an indicator they'd be easy to hide or swerve around

[gentle flint]

That’s why the rest of the team stays far away and then comes in when the other people are already debuffed to do the damage and finish the fight

[summer geode]

No because it's based on the individual.

3 raptors couldn't give the debuff to a stego without receiving it themselves. There'd be no "rotating out to maintain the stress level on the herbi"

[limber hull]

not everyone particularly cares

some people have entire clans for the sole purpose of maximising mixpacking potential and those debuffs won't really matter

[summer geode]

Still takes eons and is better than the alternative which is what we have now- nothing.

[faint folio]

Not if they do the steps I told you. Only one dino from the friends would be flagged as mixpacking. One dino debuffed in exchange for a much easier meal for the rest?

[summer geode]

So go to a private server with it disabled 🙂

[limber hull]

why???

i don't wanna mixpack, i'm saying the mixpackers won't care if it IS enabled

[gentle flint]

I REGULARLY throw my stegos off a cliff almost every time I play. What if I just used it to go stalk the deino in the tiny pond who can’t get away just to debuff them? Because while I’m still getting thirsty, they can’t kill me while I drink. So the deino gets debuffed permanently for something I’m about to yeet anyway

[faint folio]

No, I mean get 3 dilos. Have them go troll 3 different herbis and get hit with debuffs. When the main group gets hungry, pick a dilo to meet up with. The main group never gets debuffs because they don't ever stay close enough to the dilos or targets long enough without fighting to trigger the mixpack debuff. You just need a couple people with throw away dinos who can stagger when they start following different herbis.

[summer geode]

Nope. It's only as high a debuff as the debuff of the other player.

You would not be able to "rotate out" to avoid the buff, as it tracks each individual differently.

Example-

Raptor A at 75% leaves and raptor B enters at 25%

Stego, at 75%, loses the debuff as raptor B gains it until they meet at 50% and both begin gaining stress again.

If raptor A returns, they are still at 75% with that stego and will rapidly gain the buff if stego is higher

[mild isle]

Exactly LOL, I know a large amount of people who would do that if they just plan on playing smth else anyways

[summer geode]

So waste 1-2hrs to kill a single pachy as a 6-9 man mix pack.

Cool. Vastly better than not having any mechanic at all

[summer geode]

Then make a suggestion that isn't "lol leave it the same as it is now"

[mild isle]

Uh but what if one raptor is just intent on sticking near a stego until debuff? Rest of pack is a ways away- then get the debuff call and comes and kills

You underestimate the length packs will go for a kill- pack >>> one raptor

[limber hull]

i did. you literally ignored it

[mild isle]

he suggested mixpack marker

[summer geode]

Beyond that-

Your theorized ways to exploit it require vastly more coordination and statistically would occur less frequently than the type of mixpacking that occurs now.

Translated:

1 player being grieved by a mixpack over 1-2hrs is better than 20% of the server being griefed by lazy mixpackers 24/7

[summer geode]

Ignores that mixpackers just chase people indefinitely sometimes

[limber hull]

(we already have that)

but more specifically, i want it to be even easier to detect. You don't even need to sniff the air, you just get alerted when near one and then you can sniff to locate where the mixpack is

[limber hull]

Your debuff doesn't do anything about that either tho lol

[summer geode]

Knowing where they are is meaningless if they just rush everything and KoS 24/7

[mild isle]

(I thought we had pack marker and not specifically mixpack marker?)

[summer geode]

They become infertile, do less damage, and will eventually die from starvation/thirst + the spasms slow them down.

[limber hull]

We have a pack marker but the same rule would apply here

[mild isle]

unless you're right out in the open you can just avoid the area lol
Like if you're strolling through the trees and get the mixpack signal, duck in a bush for cover or flee the opposite way before they know ur in the forest too

[faint folio]

No rotating. One player would permanently ruin their dino. Nobody else on the abusing team would rotate in, so they wouldn't get any debuff. It doesn't matter, because the ruined dino is on a secondary account. Say the next day, the player that ruined their dino wants to fight. They log into their primary account and another player logs into their secondary account to "ruin" the dino nobody cares about. The point is that your fighters aren't ever getting near other species without fighting - you have a "bait dino" to sacrifice that you don't care about, so long as it debuffs the target

[summer geode]

Doesn't stop 50% of the server mixpacking in one area

[limber hull]

@strange tiger not to seem rude but are there not applications that allow that? it's pretty difficult to add a mechanic like that and it seems strange for that to be a dev priority

[gentle flint]

If 50% of the server is mixpacking, they don’t really need to worry about debuffs.

[limber hull]

lmao

[summer geode]

So raptors could kill a pachy in 5 mins but instead they'll coordinate with 6+ other groups to ruin 1 Dino and kill it over 2 hours?

Lmao

[faint folio]

Or... You target things that would feed a group. Maia, dibble, carno, stego, etc. not worth the effort on something small that a large group would body anyways

[limber hull]

yes they would

[summer geode]

Not relevant to the conversation

[summer geode]

Then, statistically, it'd happen far less often then mix pack griefing done today

🙂

[mild isle]

Uh then avoid the area and have them starve out potentially- I've only encountered big mixpacks near SP and usually you can just stay clear of there and find food elsewhere
I've never had a huge issue with mixpackers, even on unofficials where it's SO much easier arguably.. playing smart/safe has kept me from rushing into the deino/stego/raptor/cera mixpack.. be cautious coming into popular areas that could have mixpackers too

but some things are impossible to fully prevent- people will always find SOME way to abuse/loop-hole around features like that (debuffs), it feels better off adding something like Al suggested and just learning to work around mixpacks/avoid them

[mild isle]

Also whenever Isle makes replay system more like legacy- unofficals will have an easier time enforcing "no mixpacking" rules

[strange tiger]

This why I say organic players, because having it as an ingame feature allow random encounters to have use of it upon meeting. Secondly, I rather discourage use of external applications to encourage them to stay on game chat system so that the chat sound que could be use a tactic to track sneaky squads hiding in a bush.

[faint folio]

It is actually, because you suggested that a pack of raptors, which is very capable of killing a single pachy without debuffs, would go out of their way to mix pack. When in all reality, the reason people mixpack is to fight things they wouldn't normally be able to fight. And yeah, debuffing a stego's tail swing damage could be seriously worth the effort for the amount of food they give and how much health the Utah has in comparison

[summer geode]

But for raptors to give the debuff to a stego would take eons due to the weight differences.

You wanna spend literal hours just debuffing a stego and then another hour or 2 killing it?

Spend an entire session of 6+ mix packing players, all who will ruin their Dino, to grief one player once......

[faint folio]

Besides, if you WANT to do hunt pachy, usually mix packs are used to hunt groups of pachies. Get said dilo to kite a group of 6 pachys, debuff the whole lot, and profit

[gentle flint]

I’ve been kept in a spot for 2 hours as a Stego as the raptors rotated to try to kill me. Raptor packs are kinda intense, so yeah I think they would spend the time doing that.

The Isle is kinda full of people who just hate other people having fun lmao, so whatever it takes to ruin other people’s experience

[mild isle]

Can vouch (Utahraptor, now Omniraptor main)

[faint folio]

No... Which is why literally one or two people will debuff it while the rest of the team is on the other side of the map hunting other things. When they need a meal, get the Utah pack to run to the dilo's location and immediately start combat with the stego avoid ruining any of the Utah's. Heck, you could even kill the dilo if you were ruthless - it was always destined to be a sacrifice anyways. None of the raptors would ruin their dino as long as they're doing consistent damage to the stego or dilo to indicate they're not mix packing. Only one person in the "team" would truly be debuffed, and that's the dilo for extended hanging around the stego

It's only a step further than what some groups do now - I know of some groups that get one person to play herbivore and team up with other herbivores to spy on them for their buddies in a carno group. Then during combat find a way to leave or not fight particularly hard when the rest of their buddies roll up

I've actually stopped playing with groups because they did that

[summer geode]

To use a principle from Occams razor-

Simple things happen more often than complex things.

The proposed method to exploit an anti-mixpacking mechanic is far more complex than how mix packs are abused today.

As such, we can safely assume that less people would abuse the anti-mix packing mechanic than people who abuse mix packing today.

Translation: it'd still result in less mix packs and less people griefed by mix packs over all.

That's a win.

[finite herald]

i think whoever sent this has missed the point that the isle apart from its bugs is a really high quality game and dinosaurs take a LONG time to make. sure, people want playables, but if they add new dinosaurs every week or something theyll either be completely unbalanced and buggy or itll just get way too chaotic. you dont need millions of dinosaurs in a dinosaur game for it to be good.

[summer geode]

To really distill it down and provide an example-

A cera and a teno can mixpack and murder everything on sight today.

That group would struggle to abuse the proposed mechanic more than once to a single player over any meaningful period of time. Additionally, that cera and teno pack would deal less and less damage + have spams + be infertile + starve eventually.

Therefore, less people would be affected overall.

[gritty heart]

not only would a dilo not be slow to grow, but it is actually better at being abused when not fully grown since it is faster before fg.

Additionally, the dilo could potentially be reused if the debuffs are anything short of death/no stam/etc (which would make it an even more powerful tool for weaponized debuffing innocent people)

[summer geode]

Proposed debuff for mixpacking would be increasing hunger/water drain, spasms, and infertility + damage loss.

So yeah, pretty severe debuffs the longer you do it.

And the debuff gain % would be based on combined weight- so a young dilo would take eons to give the buff to an innocent stego

[gritty heart]

infertility and damage loss would be irrelevant for a throwaway griefer trawler dino.

[summer geode]

Time sink is the psychological item.

Sure, some griefers are willing to spend 2+ hours sitting near a stego just to debuff that single stego.

But that's still less players than those that currently abuse mix packs to KoS everything

[faint folio]

Occam's razor states that, if there are multiple equally likely explanations, the simplest explanation is likely the most probable. However, that's not the case for mixpacks. Mixpacks are already more organized than you'd see with players randomly coming together with no further connection for brief gain, as usually the groups that mixpack for long periods share discord servers (this is how they coordinate when they can't communicate in game). Many are also clans or clan like groups, and organized clans are very capable of maintaining complex formations and strategies via VC.

[summer geode]

People troll out of boredom.

So make some aspect of trolling boring.

[stuck imp]

if it takes like 2 hours to get serious debuffs what if the serious mixpackers on discord simply don't stay near each other.

[strange tiger]

i liked CorpseFaction suggestion for mix packers debuffs. Then I wont feel soo infuriated after I see Ceras called in a diablo to fight my cera squad and then walked with pride.

[gritty heart]

and if it is permament, someone who really wants to troll people they can hang around or ages soley to apply the debuffs (though more likely as a support tool)

[summer geode]

Some people believe that no mechanic is necessary or that simply flagging mix packs somehow would solve the issue

[summer geode]

Keywords-

Increasing hunger and thirst drains

They'll die eventually

[gritty heart]

and also sentence others to die.

[gentle flint]

Real mixpacks wouldn’t care, they’d just do it anyway. For the same reason I can sit around on my Stego and ignore diets, because the damage debuff doesn’t affect me that much. Ultimately, if they still overpower you, and are strong enough to get more food and water, that’s all they need.

[gritty heart]

dilo is also pretty easy to consistently feed, perfect size to stay afloat on numerous ai. and water isnt exactly hard to find in the isle

[summer geode]

And again-

For every person willing to abuse the proposed mechanic there are 20x as many who wouldn't but are currently abusing mixpacks today.

It's still a reduction in mixpacking and mixpacking effectiveness

[summer geode]

And then suddenly, for no reason, you hunger now drained faster than you can graze and you starve.

Weird.

[gentle flint]

That would be a really horrible and unrealistic mechanic lmao

[summer geode]

Small enough to be a massive time sink to exploit the mechanic

[faint folio]

Mix packers using a sacrificial dino wont care. It dies? Spawn again, run back, and back to work. The purpose of such a dino isn't to survive. It's to serve up others on a platter

[summer geode]

"Oh boy I debuffed 2 stego players and it only took 5hrs"

[stuck imp]

cough

[gritty heart]

a mechanic that equally punishes a random player. In fact, the stego would probably have a better chance just fighting a mixpack then being forced to die to a debuff purposefully given

[summer geode]

It's based on Weight

So a sacrificial Dino would have to be hefty.

And it would still take eons- more than enough time for the other player to simply leave or kill it.

[faint folio]

Which is why you pick something fast and with tons of stamina so the other player can't catch up to kill and can't leave without being followed

[summer geode]

"Our sacrificial raptor player will spend 2hrs debuffing that stego so our cera player can still die in 3 swings instead of 2"

[gentle flint]

An innocent player starving to death for sitting next to a tree with a herrera in it be pretty awful. Would the herrera starve? Sure, but it’d still be funny to see someone beneath me die of the same cause.

[summer geode]

They it's light af and will still take eons

And the proposed alternative?

"Do nothing"

And

"Mark groups of players"

[strange tiger]

Exact thing happened to me today. I wont mind if they same species back up. It is what it is, but calling a Dibble to a cera civil war. I mean I got to find and unofficial server that has nice rules but still learning the ropes with even more newer player I encouraged to join the game.

That league of Legend Renata Glasc ultimate of when you have been accumulated more than x time near a herbi-carni species, carnivores shall auto attack the herbis, not allowing palyer to have control. Mixpacker discordias would not like the idea. lol

[summer geode]

It'd take 2hrs for a Herrera to give the debuff to anything sizeable.

[stuck imp]

devs are already working on something against mixpacks.
there have been many years of a stress mechanic being proposed. but I think if you can find like 3 ways to exploit/completely avoid the mechanic in 5 seconds it's not really good for the game

[gritty heart]

you say that like marking groups is some minor thing.

knowledge is power, and knowing that a mix pack is X direction can make it quite easy to never encounter them

[summer geode]

And this still is a huge improvement

[faint folio]

That's exactly what I'm saying. I stopped playing with some groups because they would get someone in the discord to do a teno or stego while everyone else went carno. The herbi would then find a group, join, and hang out for like 30-60 minutes, and then start location dropping to the carnos. They caught a lot of herbivores that way

[summer geode]

Now the innocent Herrera at the lake is marked just because the mix pack entered the area 😦

[faint folio]

And it wouldn't be caught by this mixpack debuff

[stuck imp]

the innocent herra is now being debuffed for no reason

[summer geode]

Then the victims of the mixpack have a better chance 🙂

[gritty heart]

all people would know is a mixpack is there if a mixpack entered the area xd

the only scenario that occurs in is when a non mix pack solo/group approaches and gets flagged as a mixpack.

[gentle flint]

All of these assume that mixpacks hang out within almost touching distance for a majority of the time they play. A lot of fights last less than 15 minutes, and if it takes 2 hours to get a debuff, then these debuffs really don’t do anything at all

[summer geode]

They are meant to dissuade the casual player from mixpacking- nothing can stop the dedicated troll, which is what you all seem to be hyper fixated on

[gentle flint]

If I as a dibble hear that my dilo friend across highlands is getting attacked, I could run over, kill the thing, and then leave with only minutes added to my timer for hanging out near them as they run away

[stuck imp]

how so? is the radius like 50 metres? very easy to stand that far apart and attack something that the scout spots. or is it much bigger and everything gets a random debuff for existing?

[gentle flint]

A lot of people aren’t “causally” mixpacking to begin with, it’s usually friends in a discord or a clan or a variety of other options. It’s too hard to trust people you can’t communicate with otherwise, it’s one of the first lessons a lot of people learn. If you as a carno run up to a teno to try to be friends, you’re probably getting wacked unless you’ve spoken before.

[summer geode]

Occams razor.

More people are casually mixing than are dedicated super troll mixing

[gritty heart]

the average casual player is far more likely to overpack perhaps, but without any real ability to communicate they can't really mixpack without at least taking the next step to gain comms

[stuck imp]

i don't think this is true at all

[summer geode]

As complexity rises, frequency tends to decrease

[gentle flint]

Not really?

Less people are super troll rather than just openly communicating in the discord. Using your brain to communicate and create tactics doesn’t mean that you’re super trolling, it’s just that you’re playing the game.

[summer geode]

It's easier for a teno and a cera to mix, so therefore it's more likely than 12+ people all in a voice call strategically coordinating debuff times to grief a single lone stego that doesn't bother trying to move at all.

[stuck imp]

ceras and tenos don't just meet and start mixpacking. there is always communication.

[summer geode]

The easier something is the more common it tends to be

If exploding mix packs becomes more difficult, then it's reasonable to assume the number of mixpackers would decrease.

[gritty heart]

and mix packing without comms isn't easy because trusting a deadly dinosaur you don't know and can't speak with isn't easy

[gentle flint]

That’s not true either. Just because it’s easier for me to lie down and die doesn’t mean I’m going to do it. People will play the game how they find fit.

[strange tiger]

Maybe instead of timer algo, it can be a ratio of (Damage Exchanged divided by Number of times encountered multiplied by KDA) So if the algo ratio is 0 then debuffed.

[gritty heart]

dedicated large groups make mix packing EASIER because they can trust one another, communicate (including from ranges in game same species cant, not to mention a vc is far more efficient than text), etc.

[faint folio]

There's really not that much more added complexity to coordinating 4 ceratos and 1 teno than there is for a teno and a cerato if you have discord or any group teleconference capacity. Most people who mixpack even casually are in phone calls anyways because the number 1 rule in the isle is you don't trust randoms, especially if they're not the same dino as you

The cerato group just plays as normal. The teno checks in as needed - "hey guys I have a group of tenos over at highlands. We're going south plains next- meet us there"

Bam - dinner served to the carnivores. You could do literally the exact same system, but with a dilo following the herbis to apply a mix pack debuff first

[summer geode]

Again that dilo would take hours to debuff a single large herb.....

And you are still adding players to the operation.

Players AND complexity

[strange tiger]

@sly haven Proper headset and spatial audio will help you determine the direction source. Visual cues to audio triggers just doesnt feel right for the isle. It wasnt even right on fortnite.

[summer geode]

It is reasonable to assume less people would do it than those that currently abuse mixpacking

[faint folio]

Most mixpackers I've seen are 3-5 players or so anyways

[summer geode]

A mechanic is needed, as the other suggestion is "lol do nothing"

[gentle flint]

I mean they were suggesting one if that’s what you mean

[faint folio]

Or at least, intentional abusive mix packing... I have seen uncoordinated "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" style temporary cooperation to get a stego to drop followed by fighting over which group gets to keep the body... But that kind of temporary short term cooperation wouldn't be affected by your system anyways

[strange tiger]

I mean if the isle turns into mixpacker 4 chill zone aggitators with no fix inbound, soon I'll find my battles back on summoners rift. No big thing.

[summer geode]

"Mark players to deny them engagement"

Won't stop mixpacking at all.

[summer geode]

Some people just refuse to acknowledge the problem and pretend that everything is fine (not saying anyone present in this conversation)

[gentle flint]

I.. don’t think that’s what the comment you replied to was suggesting

[gentle flint]

This one I mean

[strange tiger]

Discussion open up more.

[faint folio]

What is KDA? Ive been meaning to ask

[strange tiger]

Kill Death Assist.

[faint folio]

What is that?

[strange tiger]

Kill+Assist/Death=KDA . Its a mathematical function combat gaming. If you have a high KDA, have killed more than you died. If you have less than one. You have died more than you killed.

[faint folio]

Gotcha

An assist would be something that didn't directly earn a kill but helped another player that killed? Like healing them while they take damage or dealing damage but not taking the killing blow?

I don't usually play games that track KDA

[strange tiger]

Yeah.

[gritty heart]

Usually healing is a separate stat in games, with assist being assisting in killing someone, be it damage or debuffs, etc

[faint folio]

Would this be tracked at the group level then? Obviously if 2 individuals interact and one dies, that terminates their interactions. Maybe something where kills are counted up between 2 interacting groups, and if you leave the group you take the KDA with you (eg splintering groups doesnt change the player's standing with the other group)

Likewise, I think you'd not want to not count statistics that occurred before you joined the group, although that could be debated

[strange tiger]

Well if the code or UE5 nodes they built the game with and the database ]is able to retain the data for inputs, sure it can be tracked.

[faint folio]

I could see splintering groups being a bigger problem, because otherwise leaving and remaking the group would basically wipe your KDA history

[heady geode]

all the devs The real answer to why no fix will ever be made, unfortunately. If it were actual seen as a problem the official stance from admins wouldn’t be “go find an unofficial to play”

There would be the ability to just report them to an official admin until such a time as devs had a feature for it

[summer geode]

That's because no rules is easier and they have low bandwidth when it comes to labor

Not necessarily because it's impossible

[heady geode]

One would hope that’s why

Cross my fingers and add a tick emoji no one will see lmao

[summer geode]

Basically- small underfunded team can't micromanage every player 24/7 and don't have the resources to correct the issue

[gentle flint]

I mean I’m pretty sure they said they’re already working on a solution? Not that I know what it is

[summer geode]

I heard this as well

Mixpacking is just shameful, and will definitely sour the game for a whole bunch of possible players

[heady geode]

Do you have that quote on hand somewhere, anytime I see blue or yellow names responding it’s mentioning unofficial have those rules

[gentle flint]

Let me look

[summer geode]

Some people refuse to play the other Dino games because it's basically just "day at the beach, Dino version"

[heady geode]

Or dinosaur quest simulator, go find some flowers you dumb animal

[summer geode]

It's hard to push for extreme realism and a structured ecosystem when people can just say "no" and invalidate everything by staying together

[strange tiger]

Well I dont mind going to unofficial. But the developers have power over the nodes and script of the game itself. Algorithms, logic and all that stuff could make the game feature-abled. So if one could see something that could trigger their brain to suggest to TheDondi, it could come up. In the mean time could find unofficial or sure.

[summer geode]

You need more sticks

[heady geode]

Please discover some more biomes with no players inside them

[summer geode]

How much is it even to host a server?

200+ players, fiber, 10k tower etc

I'd just have 1 single rule

"No herbi/carni mixpacks"

[heady geode]

I’m sure #server-hosting can help with that, probably has quite the variety depending on if you do a 12 player deathmatch or a 250 player petite clone

[heady geode]

SOLD, Invest Everythijg

[summer geode]

NA petite clone with only one rule

[gritty heart]

Therefore reducing the worst aspect of the game: queue times

[sly haven]

Why does it not “feel right”? A headset can never fully replicate how an animal would hear in a real environment.

[autumn osprey]

Is there a reason why Mushrooms cant be smelled - even when a baby?

[inland vigil]

so you stay in sanctuary longer, giving carnis a chance to hunt you

that's my guess at least

[gentle flint]

I’ve scoured as much as I can, I saw some mentions of it being in a devblog but I’ve dug through the devblogs and I can’t find it there either, so not sure how truthful it is. I could very easily be missing something.

[heady geode]

Ah that’s fine, I’ll hold onto it as just a bit of extra cope

[autumn osprey]

I know Hutch hosted ( before he migrated to another host cause of DDOS protection as hes a massive streamer - he had 3 servers up for 700 USD.

Unknown on his current ones. Might be he got a good deal.

[gritty heart]

because the devs like to sit in spectator mode around sanctuaries and watch blind herby players stumble around aimlessly at night (real and true)

[summer geode]

3 for 700?

So one for 200 people shouldn't be that expensive

[autumn osprey]

i mean 3 servers for 700 - they were able to do 150 pop. Just hope you aint a big streamer that gets DDOSsed or wants 700 people to connect on restart

[agile stirrup]

#general-feedback message

yes please bc half the map is a jungle/tropical environment with no jungle/tropical/exotic environment (colors or flowers). 😂

plus we have these neon blazing mating patterns to make cool skins on most dinos and just stick out like crazy because there’s not much to blend in with. I’m not saying go crazy with the colors but something more alive like a true jungle would be nice. add some orchids to the trees or something

[merry ore]

Main Carnivore players voting against less boring Herbivores lol

[urban flax]

I really don't think that's the reason why they downvote

[merry ore]

Herbivores eating eggs is not absurd, they do it in nature, ESPECIALLY ANIMALS THAT ARE BORN FROM EGGS.

Furthermore, the egg gives you a perfect diet of 300%, I managed to obtain a 35-40% deino in 1 Hour by eating the eggs that the larger deinos gave me since there would be no more players to be born, this is a very high speed, imagine how beneficial it would be for herbivores to reach larger herds in addition to reducing the boredom caused by long growth?

It would be an extremely beneficial addition for Herbivores

[urban flax]

But they don't really need it
Also it negates one of the reason for omnivores to even exist

This game has a clear line between carnivores and herbivores, and though I know it's not super realistic, I see no valid reason to blur it like that

[merry ore]

Especially the bigger ones, bruh bro I want to see large and adult herds of animals, you will hardly see a stego see another stego grow to 100% because it takes so much time that the person will leave and never see it again, lastly eggs would be extremely valued and people would choose to be born in eggs due to the opportunity for rapid growth, this would help in the spread of a species in the game.

[urban flax]

Herbivores really don't need an incentive to seek out other people to hunt anyway

[urban flax]

That has nothing to do with herbivores eating eggs

[merry ore]

1 egg does not cause such a big disturbance, many animals that use eggs as a birth method eat them to recover calcium.

[urban flax]

No, but herbivores actively seeking out and raiding others nests do

[white elm]

if herbis can eat eggs and benefit from them

and so can carnis

what is the point of a dedicated egg eater ?

there is none that's the answer

avaceratops will surely be able to eat eggs

no other herbis need to

[urban flax]

Also there is 0 reason to give a buff to herbivores growth times specifically
I don't think that will make them much more popular to play as

[merry ore]

An animal dedicated to stealing eggs will only be able to perform its function if the eggs are valued and used frequently, eggs are essentially rare in the current game

[latent olive]

wait wouldnt that just make nests an easy feeder for herbivores then

[urban flax]

So allowing herbivores to eat eggs = more people nesting and laying eggs ? I fail to see the logic

[gentle flint]

I mean.. Can you even eat your own eggs (or eggs you’re related to)? I thought you couldn’t, so being born in a nest to eat the eggs wouldn’t work

[white elm]

yea

[merry ore]

They will need to produce eggs to make the chicks grow faster, that is, there will be many eggs that will give rise to players as well as disposable eggs.

[urban flax]

[merry ore]

What's the point of an animal dedicated to eating eggs if they are rare and not valued?

[white elm]

what's the point of an animal dedicated to eat eggs if literally everything can eat eggs

[merry ore]

Omnivores are animals that feed on MEAT at the same time as they feed on vegetation.

Beipi eats fish and also vegetation, this is being omnivorous, eating eggs to recover energy/calcium is not being omnivorous when it is a temporary behavior.

[urban flax]

What's the point of giving everything the ability to eat eggs if there is no additional incentive to produce said eggs

[urban flax]

In this game omnivore means eating plant, meat and eggs
Herbivore means eating plants.

It's that simple

I know that in nature, herbivore will occasionnaly eat eggs, or bones, or even raw meat
But that's not nature, that's a videogame with human players controlling dinos

[merry ore]

Omnivores are animals that feed on MEAT at the same time as they feed on vegetation.

Beipi eats fish and also vegetation, this is being omnivorous, eating eggs to recover energy/calcium is not being omnivorous when it is a temporary behavior.

[urban flax]

You do see the issues that would arise if herbivores were allowed to eat meat to compliment their diet, right ?

[urban flax]

There is no such thing as temporary behaviors in this game

[merry ore]

If it's a game, WHY NOT ENCOURAGE FASTER FORMS OF GROWTH?

This wouldn't hurt ANYONE, it would be very beneficial.

[urban flax]

There are reasons for growth times being the duration they are

[merry ore]

Why will an adult Stego occasionally randomly eat eggs now uh?
Herbivores would not eat eggs because when they are adults the value of the egg is zero.

[urban flax]

You said it would give them 300% diet

So the value is 300% diet

[merry ore]

So explain to me why a deino can maintain a 300% diet when eating eggs and stay that way for 1 hour without any problems if his parents keep giving him eggs? This applies to other carnivores.

[merry ore]

No?

[urban flax]

I'm not sure how 300% doesn't equate to 300%, enlighten me

[urban flax]

I didn't know that was possible and I think that's an issue

Unless it costs a lot of nutrients and hunger for the parents to produce the eggs

[merry ore]

If an adult animal eats an egg of its species, it gains a low value because the value of the stomach and diet is much higher, compared to its baby version which has a smaller stomach and diet, filling quickly.

[urban flax]

But it still gains hunger and diet

Also there aren't just adults and babies in the game
There are growing animals too

[merry ore]

A puppy could keep eating the same egg for 100 times, the adult version deletes the egg from existence after one bite and has an extremely low nutritional value.

[urban flax]

So it's just a very complicated, out of nowhere and potentially balance breaking way to allow nested-in herbivore babies specifically to grow faster

[merry ore]

In nature, the herbivore population grows quickly in response to predation, in the game herbivores grow slowly, having much smaller rewards compared to a carnivore, it is no surprise that the majority of the server is made up of carnivores.

[urban flax]

Ok, but I really don't think making the growth of nested-in herbivore babies faster will do much about that

Carnivores are inherently more popular because they're carnivores

[merry ore]

and why would a baby growing quickly be a problem? EXPLAIN TO ME WHY THE DIFFERENCE IN THE GROWTH OF A TROODON TO AN OMNI IS 30 MINUTES?

(Troodon 1 hour and 30 minutes, Omni 2 hours)

The growth system in this game in some animals is meaningless, there is a reason why the 300% diet EXISTS.

[urban flax]

The growth time of dinos in this game account for their overall strength, combat potential, ease of playing and the needed difficulty that should be to grow one to adult

[merry ore]

Because there is a greater reward for playing Carnivore than Herbivore, my proposal increases interest in herbivores by creating a way to encourage people to play herbivore knowing that it won't be as time-consuming as spawning.

[urban flax]

The 300% diet exists to reward people for managing their diet perfectly, it's not supposed to be the baseline growth time

[white elm]

still no response? cool

[merry ore]

Erm no, you talk as if the game behaves 100% realistically, when you know that's not what happens, there are many things broken in this game, just because someone left growth in X amounts of hours doesn't mean it makes sense and should be maintained.

[urban flax]

But it will, unless you get nested-in ?
It also has the unwanted side-effects of :
-Making herbivores raid other people's nests, therefore reducing everyone's incentive and success rate in nesting
-Reducing the interest and uniqueness of omnivores
-Skewing the balance in favor of herbivores ?

[merry ore]

Actually I answered this

[urban flax]

I don't talk as if the game behaves 100% realistically, what do you mean ?

[merry ore]

It's not that difficult to make herbivores able to eat only eggs of their species.

[urban flax]

But what make this even a mechanic then ? It's just confusing and useless

[merry ore]

We only have two omnivores in this game and one of them has his diet made up of 95% plants and the rest in AI, there is no true omnivore in this game or at least their system is not interesting because it is limiting, beipi is only omnivorous because he eats FISH

F E S H

[urban flax]

The roster isn't complete, you know that ?

[white elm]

thats just

why

[merry ore]

I know, but adding a system to one class of animals will not hide another class of animals because the main reason for not playing omnivores is because currently they are essentially limited herbivores, people will be interested in omnivores when they present a great feeding system.

[merry ore]

Why it would encourage the herbivore population to grow faster, increasing the number of prey across the map and reducing stress due to slow growth, is not difficult to understand.

[urban flax]

A great feeding system that will also be present in herbivores if they can eat eggs

[merry ore]

Not everyone has the balls to grow a stego because it costs 6 hours of your life, now add this detail of eating eggs while you are a baby and you will see the dynamics change magically

[urban flax]

It's fine if not everyone grows a stego

Making it so everyone doesn't play apexes is the reason why their growth time is so long

[merry ore]

This makes growing less punishing and makes people value eggs, now explain to me, why HERBIVORES CAN'T HAVE THIS, while carnivores and omnivores can use this system to their advantage in the current state of the game? UNTIL DEINO

I don't need to remind you that carnivores make up 80% of a server, so.

[urban flax]

Because it's an issue that has been overlooked so far, as I told you I didn't even know it was possible, and I don't think it should be

[merry ore]

I discovered today when I saw this in person with a Deino, it's not a bad system, it's a system that BENEFITS those born in eggs, it increases interest in being born and creating eggs.
I knew eggs gave 300%, but I didn't know you could use that for a significant amount of time with your dino.

[urban flax]

It's people abusing a system because it was overlooked

[merry ore]

Why is everything that seems positive to use now bad? Why would growing faster be bad? It's a new gameplay dynamic if people notice, how do you think an animal devoted to eggs will exist in the game if eggs aren't common or valued?

[limber hull]

i think my favourite part about this is the argument that "it would give an early 300% diet boost to hatchlings"

ironically, not only can hatchlings not eat solid food like eggs, but being fed will provide 300% nutrients from a parent with a good balance in nutrition

[urban flax]

Are you asking why is being able to forego the main difficulty of the game, which is growing, a problem ?

[limber hull]

also uh

mushrooms exist lol

[urban flax]

And again, HOW DO MAKING PEOPLE EAT THEIR OWN EGGS MAKE THEM MORE VALUED ?
How will an egg eater ever be able to eat eggs if the hatchlings in the nest already ate them !?

You keep using the argument of "making eggs rare and valued" but I feel like you don't understand what that means

[merry ore]

At some point the parents will stop feeding the chicks and they will eat on their own, the chicks will be able to eat the eggs in the nest to continue their growth momentum.

[limber hull]

you realise that vomit feeding also provides 300% nutrients right

like if your entire point is "the parents can feed you eggs", they iterally already can feed you 300% nutrients

you are reinventing the wheel as a square

[urban flax]

So the exact same as before, but with less eggs because the first ones have been eaten

[white elm]

so the ovi that goes to the nest just gets nothing

[limber hull]

or the parents could just

hatch more kids

also why are we now on the side of literal herbivore cannibalism as an insentivised growth method LMAO

and i swear to god if you say it doesn't count because they're an embryo that's an ENTIRE bag of worms that needn't be discussed in the isle discord

[merry ore]

Because I create a new demand, people producing MORE eggs for this purpose, this makes the eggs more valued since whoever hatches in them will grow faster than in spawn, this will increase the number of players making nests when they notice that they will ACTUALLY be rewarded by having chicks that will not cost 1 HOUR TO STAY IN A PLACE THAT DOES NOT MEET THE ANIMALS' FOOD NEEDS.

[merry ore]

https://tenor.com/view/jeff-the-shark-marvel-rivals-jeff-shark-jeff-the-shark-sad-jeff-the-shark-meme-gif-4315446982470287262

[limber hull]

or go to a sanctuary lol

[white elm]

https://tenor.com/view/titan-megamind-silent-hill-dead-inside-stare-gif-23717163

[urban flax]

You don't know how rarity and value work do you

[merry ore]

Eggs are better than sanctuaries, sanctuaries are better for those born in spawn

[merry ore]

I DO

Omg it's not that hard to understand, animals constantly re-laying eggs = Food source for animals dedicated to hunting eggs.

[haughty night]

hallo

[haughty night]

what is going on here

[merry ore]

Eggs

[haughty night]

what about em

[urban flax]

Animals eating their own eggs = no food source for egg-eaters

Also if eggs are that disposable it makes them much LESS valued

[haughty night]

arent carnis able to eat their own eggs? is that what this is about?

[urban flax]

It's about giving it to herbis as well instead of removing it from carnis

[merry ore]

Carnivores and omnivores can increase the growth of their young by using the egg itself as food for rapid growth.

Herbivores are the only ones in the game that do not eat eggs, not even of their own species, whereas in real life many herbivores adopt an omnivorous diet temporarily, especially animals that are born from eggs to Egg.

[haughty night]

ah yes, make absolutely sure egg eaters never get to do what they were made to

[merry ore]

Why remove from carnivores and omnivores the ability to eat their own eggs uh?

[haughty night]

sanctuaries and perfect diet feeding. We have alternatives already. And this is a game, not irl. Though I'm guessing other people already said the same thing

[frank tapir]

can non-cannibalistic carnis and omnivores eat their own eggs?

[urban flax]

Because it's mechanic abuse due to an overlook in game mechanics

[merry ore]

Understand one thing, whoever is born in spawn will automatically go to a sanctuary, whoever is born in Eggs will not need to go to sanctuaries for this, carnivores and omnivores do not need to.

[merry ore]

Yes

In the case of omnivores, I don't know if it's actually possible to eat them, I think Galli can and Beipi can't.

[merry ore]

It is not an abuse of mechanics when it is not harmful to anyone.

[haughty night]

herbis do tho. Juvie herbis have the perfectly valid option of running into a sanc. For juvie carnivores, hunt and kill or be fed by the parents. I don't see why they need to eat eggs? seems to take away from egg eaters for no reason

[urban flax]

It very much is
Also it's kind of harmful in a way since it eases carnivore overpopulation

[merry ore]

Answer me, HOW TO INCREASE INTEREST IN THE HERBIVORE POPULATION IF ALL YOU WANT IS ANIMALS THAT ONLY EAT GRASS FOR 6 HOURS OF THEIR LIFE?

[haughty night]

I don't see the need. Already a ton of people play herbi. They're way tankier and easier to grow at juvie stage because mushrooms give you a good boost

[urban flax]

Giving them a meaningful gameplay loop

Which doesn't imply them circumventing one of the core gameplay mechanics

[merry ore]

I'm talking about animals being born in spawn or being born in EGGs?

[frank tapir]

patrol zones

[merry ore]

This "loop" will only be required when there is an end of life due to old age in this game and it will still not change the herbivore population.

[haughty night]

what are you talking about? First you talk about increasing interest in herbi players and now suddenly you're talking about being born in eggs? which is it?

[frank tapir]

we don't know that

[white elm]

ok so we've reached the "eat grass and die" section of the argument

[haughty night]

what servers do you play on? I see herbis all the time and I have never once thought herbi population is "too low"

[merry ore]

Answer me, why do people play carnivore.
(apart from the fact that it is a human instinct to want to be the hunter?)

[frank tapir]

I don't know man, I like playing both

[haughty night]

because they're cool

[merry ore]

Now I ask you, why not offer a well-rewarded experience by hatching from eggs?

[haughty night]

I think 3 extra mutations are a pretty good reward for choosing to hatch from an egg

[frank tapir]

there already is one, easier diets and protection, not to mention the soical aspects

[frank tapir]

plus that

[merry ore]

Yeah but these mutations aren't actually affecting the gameplay, at least in the growth part.

Okay, you have benefits, but the cost of achieving them is so high that few people make a nest egg because of it.

[frank tapir]

eating eggs doesn't reduce the cost, and mutations definitely have an effect during growth

[merry ore]

Let's pretend the players disconnect after 2 hours, because simply raising an animal to adulthood has already taken hours and you probably won't see your baby friend grow into an adult because you are a human who needs to rest.

Tell me, why would this system be BAD?

[haughty night]

mutations indirectly affect growth because you have an easier time surviving

no its not hard, you gestate eggs, do the funny animation and lay them in a nest that takes 2 minutes to build. The reason people don't nest is because it takes too long. The parents don't get any real benefit from it. What nests need is a way to reward the parent

[frank tapir]

what does logging after 2 hours have to do with this? do you seriously expect parents to sustain their children using eggs for that long?

[merry ore]

Mutations only increase your chance of survival against the risks that life imposes on you, such as water, food and predation, nothing more.

[frank tapir]

that is literally everything, except self imposed risks

[merry ore]

The eggs will only make the hatchlings grow drastically faster, increasing the population of herbivorous adults rapidly who can repeat the process.

[haughty night]

because then every 6 ton herbi that's unkillable by 90% of the roster now just poops out eggs and boom, now you have x4 those herbis with 3 more mutations that grow in a 1/3 of the time. Also future egg eaters are now just dryo level useless

[silent stream]

eggs are too fast for there to be egg eaters

[merry ore]

It won't be long before playable characters arrive that will crush a Stego in the current game, sir.

[frank tapir]

#general-feedback message this is what we're talking about

[haughty night]

"nothing more" bro that's like the only three things that you need to survive 💀

[haughty night]

hence NINETY percent of the roster and not 100

[merry ore]

What did you think I was referring to? 🤌💀🤌

[haughty night]

glad we agree that 3 extra mutations are more than enough as rewards for hatching

[frank tapir]

so your saying mutations do nothing to help you grow, other than helping you survive, y'know, the number one thing you need to grow?

[merry ore]

No? They only save the energy needed to survive, not what the player will experience on the island.

[haughty night]

in my humble and maybe controversial opinion, survival is necessary to grow 💀

[frank tapir]

literally what I just said

[haughty night]

yeah Im agreeing with you

[silent stream]

I am confused, you want juvi herbies to cannibalize their brother eggs so they grow faster?

[merry ore]

Sir, I have probably been saved countless times from being kidnapped by a deino by having Reabsorb.

[frank tapir]

so you changed your mind about the extra mutations from nesting?

sorry I'm getting you mixed up

[haughty night]

I've had the same opinion from the start, dont let anyone eat their own eggs except carnis until egg eaters are added

[merry ore]

I'm talking about overall survival, food chain and population control bruh 🤌💀🤌

[silent stream]

people really do be having dark pfps with a splash of grey in the middle

[haughty night]

when did you ever mention food chain or overall survival? the only thing you've been concerned about is herbi population

[merry ore]

Technically yes

[frank tapir]

#general-feedback-discussion message this, to you

[haughty night]

just make it crystal clear, one message, like 3 paragraphs of what you want added to the game and why it ISNT a problem

[merry ore]

I think I'll go to sleep, 6 am here, I'll continue the conversation later.

[silent stream]

In general i do think herbies should grow faster + make their life more exciting

But the egg thing is weird

[haughty night]

so you do agree that mutations are game changers and do greatly affect gameplay?

[merry ore]

I formulated a bible as soon as my 10 neurons are active, at the moment I only have 1 functional neuron.

[low cobalt]

I cant get to adult, the big bad monster get me every time...

biggest badest monster in the game

[silent stream]

my big bad monster is employment 🙏

[merry ore]

Why do you say this as if you were pointing a gun at my back right now while you hold up a contract for me to sign the terms and service?

[haughty night]

I don't think herbis need a grow boost when their food is so easy to obtain, but they definitely need something to make them more enjoyable. Hierarchies in a pack done through dibble sparring or something would be cool, where the leader is the guy who's won the most spars

[merry ore]

But yes

[low cobalt]

@silent stream I wish, maybe I wouldnt sink 60 hours in a week in to this frustrating mess I cant stop playing xD

[haughty night]

then mutations are enough of a reward for hatching and hatchlings don't need to cannibalize their unborn bretheren to grow faster

[merry ore]

Grow Boost would INCREASE THEIR POPULATION

With

E G G S

[silent stream]

I think migrations are probably a good thing. I saw my Diets change on my Maia and I was like " Damn i have to go all the way to the other side of the map? Thats crazy" but i just had to move on the other side of the same field to get my foods again

[merry ore]

Now I'm going to sleep, bye.

[haughty night]

why is that necessary when most herbis can win against most carnis 1v1? plus its not like nobody plays herbis, quite the opposite

[frank tapir]

nests typically fill up quickly, people want to be nested in. The issue is parents wanting and being able to nest

[silent stream]

faster growth means less need for me to just stay afk in a bush

[haughty night]

like I said, herbis definitely need something more to take up their time but faster growth is not the answer

[silent stream]

Faster growth and making them more viable prey, nobody is hunting herbies while carnis are having the most exciting time in their life duking it out with each other

[merry ore]

Fast Grow is the answer yes, why are you so afraid of fast growth? Furthermore, we are talking about a specific condition for it to occur, BORN FROM A NEST.

I'm going to sleep now and will answer any questions later.

[haughty night]

I'm not afraid of growing fast I'm afraid of herbi mega packs. Imagine these 8 tons herbis growing in 3 hours because they have this army of other herbis that grew incredibly fast. And like I said, herbis are more likely to mixpack and most of them are capable of turning several carnivores into roadkill while being solo. Allowing those plant eating tanks to grow faster is not the answer

[silent stream]

Yesterday i grew a Maia and a Dilo.

The Maia growth was 3-4 hours of me untabbing my game to drink and eat and then going afk.

The Dilo gameplay was exciting from start to the very end. I was fighting for 2 hours straight against different enemies. 2 ceras attacked our pack, we killed one of them, less than a minute later 2 carnos attack our pack, the one i chased down managed to log out, then we started fighting the remaining cera when it came back to drink water, while wearing it down raptors attacked us and i had to chase them down deep into the forest hoping my mates can manage the cera without me, all this while the parent dilos are protecting the babies and juvis for a herrera near by, war is over, i rest, we go to the beach for turtles, i just finally hit full adult, 2 carnos try to brute force us, we kill 1 while we lost 1 of ours due to us having low stamina. We are going back to the nest for water, I am waaay forward and I see an adult Carno and i am the only adult Dilo near by, I decide to fight it after me surviving and winning so many fights, the full adult carno bested me and I died. No regrets had tons of fun.

Nowhere in this are any herbies involved. This game is carnivore on carnivore diets even if there are herbies near by

[haughty night]

and how exactly does herbis growing faster solve this? You literally said "this is carnivore on carnivore even if there herbis nearby". So tell me how faster growth solves anything? What we NEED are actual mid tiers. Carnivores that are actually built to hunt these huge herbis. We need allo. Or sucho. Also recounting two instances of gameplay does not serve to make any point at all. My most fun times have come from growing a dibble and a stego. Overall though? I've found carnivores' lives across my gameplay hours to be more eventful. Herbivores need something more to do, but even faster growth is not the answer to that.

[silent stream]

Just faster growth is not enough, herbies need to be put in more danger

The faster growth is to compensate that

[normal shuttle]

I just woke up

Just stick to carnivores, man

Herbis have so many existing and planned threats, no need to turn them into glorified resources. All playables have the same value and the (literally) more than half of the playables should be creatures with the same agency as a carnivore instead of being relegated to “food for a predator”

[strange tiger]

This argument will not stand. A designed set could possibly replicate animalistic hearing but you still got human ears to hear it. Second thing, animals seeing cues is not animalistic. Third thing, partial audio still does the job well. Players with headsets can and do determine directions of calls, footsteps, rustling bushes and etc.

The reason why smell is visual because noone here has a smell producing machine for gaming. You got to wait for "Ready Player One" technology to have such immersion.

[silent stream]

and thank goodness for that, bet that island smells vile

[normal shuttle]

All the rotting bodies in sp

[silent stream]

Not to mention the poop. The Diablo, Maia and Stego would be poopin 100kg+ a day

[normal shuttle]

Never

Devs refuse to

And I agree

[normal shuttle]

Also this is incorrect, those proportions are only really applicable to mammals and not crocodilians, birds and other reptiles

[silent stream]

idk i wasnt there

[normal shuttle]

We have evidence tho

Anyway let’s see what feedback I can criticize

@cosmic delta git gud, new system is meant to manage stamina mindfully and also give commitment to sitting down

[cosmic delta]

It's not a skill it's a new player killing mechanic, if a new player runs when they spawn they will have to not move for like 20 mins, that's gonna make any new player leave dude

[normal shuttle]

Hopefully the upcoming UI will address this

[desert arch]

Nothing regens stamina for 20 mins what 💀

[normal shuttle]

And honestly the new player can, yknow

Learn, or ask somewhere

[normal shuttle]

This too ^

Blatant hyperbole to support a point

At most a juvenile has to sit for like 4-5 minutes after 10 minutes of runtime

But either way, like many other mechanics, they could just explain it in the new UI and with tutorials inside the game

No need to get rid of the system as a whole simply because some people, new or not, do not handle their stamina properly or don’t want to commit

[silent stream]

newly spawns have close to infinite stamina and super fast stamina regen, wdym?

[haughty night]

yeah, by giving them some ACTUAL carnivore competition. Not by increasing their growth rate

[silent stream]

I like the idea of also bigger migration distances

My diet changed and i thought i had to go across the whole map for my new food, turns out i just needed to go on the other side of a small hill. Amazing migration

[haughty night]

only if you drain it to 0

[desert arch]

No? Thats straight up false

[desert arch]

The longest stamina regen time is 4 minutes 10 seconds. Held by galli and ptera.

[haughty night]

those two also have some of the best stamina in the game. You can run a long distance with galli before stam hits 60%. Then you just trot for like 30 seconds and ur stam is back up to 80-90 percent

[desert arch]

Exactly

So whats the issue?

Wait nvm

Lol

[haughty night]

I dont have any issue with current stam

[desert arch]

Confused you with someone else, my bad

[haughty night]

lmao friendly fire

[desert arch]

https://tenor.com/view/my-apologies-cheese-kitty-cat-sorry-my-bad-gif-1026852287997442026

[haughty night]

I'd send a gif in response if I wasn't image muted

[desert arch]

😭

[urban flax]

Imma do it for you

[urban flax]

https://tenor.com/view/skeletor-silence-you-funny-foul-silence-shut-up-shut-up-clown-gif-23928870

[haughty night]

[normal shuttle]

Insane friendly fire

I was reading the discussion and also thought for a moment that jar was the person who made the suggestion

[woeful latch]

hey, you can’t do that, only i can use this gif.

[desert arch]

https://tenor.com/view/spongebob-patrick-star-mmm-cheesy-cheese-cheesy-gif-19257011

[woeful latch]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-eating-potato-kitty-asmr-gif-17215228159060317844

you’re next.

[vital laurel]

i doubt a starving or dehydrating animl goes around screaming

[woven bane]

#general-feedback message @noble verge the counterplay is to prevent that situation from occurring in the first place

[faint folio]

@tight vapor last I heard, Quetzalcoatlus (large flier) is planned to be added at some point... There's just a bunch of dinos that need to be added and they can't all be worked on at the same time.

[faint folio]

Yeah, the counterplay is if there are trees nearby, you shouldn't stand still. It's much harder to land in a moving dino

[wintry cipher]

An omni is able to pounce and kill any herra it catches on the ground with 0 counterplay. Just like them, be more aware of your surroundings.

[vital laurel]

tbh.. its not the most fun part of the game constantly looking up into the sky, neither is omni, i don't rly feel that herra adds much most of the time

@vagrant sapphire you can report in these channels

[desert arch]

@dense meteor stamina, food, water and health already affect how long you bleed for.

[vagrant sapphire]

its not a report channel. hundreds to thousands of messages to go through. thats not how a report system works.

[vital laurel]

you can ping the admins

but yes a ticket system is needed, as hackers can see the reports atm, but you can still report hackers

[vagrant sapphire]

stil. not how a report system works. you need to create a report, where you can send you video to them, explaining the situation and giving them your steam name and the server where you were in, they can check the death logs and then find whoever killed you. Thats how it works. Not this.

[vagrant sapphire]

it doesnt matter. reporting them now is useless. it doesnt seem like the devs WANT to fix this situation. if they did, they wouldve done it a long time ago. not fixing the hackers, but fixing the way we can find them and ban them.

[vital laurel]

how is it useless?

the hacker can still be banned

[vagrant sapphire]

um because they dont ever reply, and if they do, its almost always too late. again. not how a reporting system works. thousands of messages to go through and all that

[dense meteor]

Not enough, that's why I said buff, it's almost no punishment whatsoever

[vagrant sapphire]

so they just gonna take a persons word for it? even if the other person might not have been a hacker? not attacking you, just asking

[desert arch]

Its more than a 2x diff, cerato doesnt need an indirect buff

[vital laurel]

ppl are already in a very though postion if youre low on food and water while bleeding, buffing bleed dmg would just outright kill you lol

[icy lion]

Obviously they still go in and investigate to see if the reported individual was actually hacking, but they do not reply to reports unless more info is necessary

Plus, discord has an inbox feature that compiles every ping you receive

[vital laurel]

they can check the hacker out, wdym?

[woven bane]

bleeder cerato🗣🔥

[dense meteor]

Not once have a I ever bled out in this game and I've been in situations where it was a 1v8 I was Cera and 8 omnis and I was able to walk away and mitigate by bleed with no Stam and no food, there was 0 real punishment

[vagrant sapphire]

how do they know if they were and how do they know if the person isnt in game?

[vital laurel]

ctrl+f mention:admin

[icy lion]

They're not scrolling through thousands of messages, they're scrolling through the pings

[vagrant sapphire]

you mean minutes to hours after the hacker logged?

[desert arch]

1. Cerato has bleed resistance
2. The fact they lost a 1v8 means the omnis were dogwater or afk lol

[vital laurel]

how would that change if you ticket system?

[icy lion]

If they've logged, it may be too late for the admin to catch them that time. And for most hacks, it's pretty obvious. The admins have more tools than the players

[icy lion]

It wouldn't

[vagrant sapphire]

thats what I mean. there might be multiple cases of admins not catching them fast enough. atleast with video proof and digging in the discord they can find the person who did it

[vital laurel]

yeah, i dont see what ticket system adds except a more private chat where you can call out location and not have to go into dms for potential details, it wont affect response time, if a admin sees a ping on a ticket or in the server channels it will take them the same ammount of time

[dense meteor]

No I just sat by a cliff where they couldn't do anything and just sat there, which is why bleed needs to be more punishable, any Dino that sits by a cliff or wall greatly increases the odds and 9 out of 10 times they survive even when in critical condition because they just can't do anything

[vagrant sapphire]

you sure it will take the same amount of time?

[vital laurel]

its not like it would be a brain chip that alerts them?

[desert arch]

Players need to learn not every hunt can end in success.
And again, it would be an indirect buff to cerato, so please God no.

[silent stream]

a ticket system adds a lot tbh

[vital laurel]

ye, it would mitigate hackers logging off when they see a report in the chat

[vagrant sapphire]

it does

[dense meteor]

And like I said I have never bled out in this game, 1 of the core mechanics the revolves around the game and its never happened, not all players are bad surely bleed needs a buff

[woeful latch]

omni is already one of the best bleeders in the game, it doesn’t need to be even better, it’s bleed is already ridiculous for its size

[vital laurel]

im not saying it doesnt do a lot, but response time is another issue

[vagrant sapphire]

lol if thats the only thing you think it brings then this whole conversation was a waste of time. ill see myself out.

[vital laurel]

do you usually play cera?

[desert arch]

And I have yet to die to a herrera, ever. Does that mean it needs a buff? No.
Anecdotal evidence shouldnt be taken into consideration.

[silent stream]

I think it will be easier and more effective for everyone rather than just pinging them in a fast moving chat lmao

[vital laurel]

no? read the relpy chain, you just seem to be fuming tbh

[dense meteor]

I play them all, I've even played as carno against omni and one, always live from bleed never even concerns me

[vagrant sapphire]

yep

[woeful latch]

exactly

[desert arch]

@vivid mason get the clip of us 2 bleeding out a maia under 10 mins atp 😭

[vital laurel]

herra bleeds out anything, also dinos like dilo bleeds out easy, omni too if it moves a lot

[woeful latch]

also you know what’s funny? the only time i died to herrera was when i was playing as a herrera (dude was canni😭)

[vivid mason]

The only times I die to Herrera is as troo LOL

[dense meteor]

Wild haha ok don't fix bleed I guess, since it's completely balanced

The games balanced 👌

[haughty night]

dilo has low bleed res, otherwise for most dinos just walking away and sitting does the trick

[silent stream]

What does Bleed even do tbh cuz it doesn't do anything obvious to me, i guess it damages you?

[haughty night]

no, its a second health bar basically

[desert arch]

The less blood you have, the slower you regen stamina.

[woven bane]

i once died to a troodon, this means that it needs a nerf

[haughty night]

I think if your health is low you bleed harder too

[dense meteor]

According to professional isle players bleed is perfect and it does exactly what it needs to do in the correct amount of time and doesn't need to be touched whatsoever

[desert arch]

Ok, Flows

[woeful latch]

🤭🤭🤭🫵

[desert arch]

Health, stam, food, water all affect it yes

[haughty night]

all of it? damn

[vital laurel]

thats legacy, it makes stamina regen wrose and when it hits 0 you die

[desert arch]

Getting a bit spicy there, I see

[silent stream]

When stamina regen hits 0?

[vital laurel]

when bleed hits 0

I think bleed is pretty unaffecting for some dinos atm as bigger stuff that actually inflicts bleed just isn't in and any smart player can stay away from a dibble that infilcits enough bleed to kill you, i think in a allo vs dibble fight it might become more common to see a allo bleed out after the fact and such

[golden horizon]

#general-feedback message Just implement an integrated population control like Petits peids

[vital laurel]

not everyone enjoys that, and that is just a bandaid on a "flawed" roster

[golden horizon]

Its a temporary and a better solution than nerfing stuff, and whenever they add more dinos, they have to buff the same stuff that they just nerfed

[vital laurel]

no, ceras bacteria is pretty damn OP

[golden horizon]

You can say the same thing about other playables mechanics like omni pounce, deino grab, herra oneshot etc.

Cera bacteria is pretty annoying, but it's not game breaking

[vital laurel]

how is deino grab OP, it can only grab stuff 50% of its weight.... and you can drink where it can never reach you

[golden horizon]

Most playables weight is below 4000 kg

[golden horizon]

You can say the same thing about cera, it can only give you bacteria if you go close to it

Anything slower than cera can fight it, and anything quicker than cera can just run away from it

[vital laurel]

yes?

[golden horizon]

Then it can grab most dinos, but you make it out to be like majority of dinos are above 50% of deinos weight

[vital laurel]

Thats not the issuue, the isuse is that in a matter of seconds a cera can make anything puke

[golden horizon]

That depends what dino its biting, i play maia alot vs cera, and it takes around 3 charge bites to make me puke and around 5 normal bite, but it also depend where on the body it hits you.

[gritty heart]

#general-feedback message

I like that concept, it would be a cool way to give it more identity

[golden horizon]

It also depends on how full the stomach is. Always make sure to have full stomach when fighting cera

[gritty heart]

#general-feedback message
always been a big proponent of this. Not a really needed thing, but it would be cool to have and give deino more movement options, plus it would be funny to snatch a pestering ptera from the sky

[golden horizon]

There are too many factors to just conclude that "the isuse is that in a matter of seconds a cera can make anything puke"

This statement is just wrong

[gritty heart]

#general-feedback message
@noble verge
Omni is probably the carnivore that best counters herra. Carno and dilo are technically faster, but neither can jump and so struggle to catch the agile rat. Omni on the other hand is agile enough to keep up, and if you pounce them they lose just like if they leap on you.

[golden horizon]

Let's not overexaggerate things and just be honest. They even nerfed cerato bacteria not long ago with 50%

[gritty heart]

the main thing that needs to change imo is how it works, not the amount applied. Make it more like a sickness than just an instant effect. sicknesses build up over time post infection. That way it is more punishing post combat, helping it to be a more just a deterrence tool

[woven bane]

right, it finally works as a strong deterrent

[topaz kestrel]

Now if u wouldve actually tagged me I wouldve seen this earlier lol.
Well if its on the brink of dying to starvation I think making slight distressing sounds isnt too far fetched. Of course theyre not screaming and thats not what I was thinking of more like the hit sounds just a little quieter. But the idea got denied anyway so I removed it 😄

[golden horizon]

Kissen hinted at cerato will get the same treatment as carno, so they might nerf that thing into the ground

[normal shuttle]

@noble verge the counterplay in question is looking up and also stealth. If they miss the jump they're dead too

and 30% omnis can pin and kill fg herras (which are slower and noisier btw) that took two or three times longer to grow with a single button press

[spiral stump]

@potent glade what would be the use of that

[limber basin]

Anyone having problems to find servers?

Mine keeps "scanning all frequencies" forever

[icy lion]

EOS is currently experiencing another outage, we'll have to wait for Epic to fix the issue https://status.epicgames.com/

[limber basin]

Oh no 😢

[potent glade]

Fun. You know, what games are for. It could also give a quick speed boost.

[coarse spruce]

#general-feedback message
they nerfed juvi troodon speed?

doesn't juvi maia run friggin 38?

[pliant elm]

Yes

[coarse spruce]

how fast is it now

[pliant elm]

13km

[coarse spruce]

it's troover

they made it just like herrera

[pliant elm]

Dev hate troodon just like they hate carno xd

[normal shuttle]

I really dont get why

troodon had a hard enough time surviving out of sp where carcasses are plentiful

also 55kph juvenile rex

[pliant elm]

Troodon needs a buff to his pounce and his poison, and they go there and do another nerf lol

[coarse spruce]

Troodon can't fight anything when its a juvi, not even the other juvis.
If this is its new speed, then it can't steal from other juvis either

[woeful latch]

they don’t

but i bet they’re planning to give troodon other buffs

[normal shuttle]

what is even the thought process behind nerfing juvenile troodon? I seriously do not get it

[pliant elm]

I don't know what goes through their heads to think that the Troodon Juv weighing 2kg and causing less than 3 damage would need a speed reduction.

[woeful latch]

no idea, i can agree with slow juvie troodon but with venom

so it gets venom in juvie stage, not 50%

[pliant elm]

This is Very good

[desert arch]

A fresh spawn juvi troodons pounce doesnt even deal 1dmg lmfao

Its like 0.6 smth

[woeful latch]

lmaooo

[desert arch]

So OP am I right

[woeful latch]

that’s why it needs a venom!

[pliant elm]

This is stronger than rex, needs an urgent nerf

[woeful latch]

imagine how much easier it would be to kill ai like taco

[coarse spruce]

does anyone know if juvi herra got a speed buff because that is also painfully slow

[urban flax]

Um, last I checked AI is immune to venom

[woeful latch]

juvie troodon can’t really do anything expect scavenging

[sudden shell]

still slow

[desert arch]

Wouldnt help tbh, even with the 3rd stage dmg boost of ~3x, it would still deal less than 10 dmg, not even enough to hunt other juvis :/

[woeful latch]

it’s like few pounces to kill taco tho, imo better than nothing?

teno bite kills taco, so it has less than 35 hp

[coarse spruce]

So troodon and herrerasaurus are very slow, very short and very vulnerable in an update where the grass has tripled in height?

[desert arch]

Doesnt taco run faster than 13kmh LOL

[woeful latch]

doubt that, it’s very slow

[weak ermine]

13kph seems really slow

[woeful latch]

it is

[pliant elm]

3rd stage increases damage by 2x

[desert arch]

Taco gas 20hp, already not that hard to kill

[coarse spruce]

its >3x

[desert arch]

35->45->60->100

[coarse spruce]

^ this

It's what I measured as well between 4 different species

[desert arch]

You do NOT doubt the #1 troodon glazer

[pliant elm]

1rd is 1x, 2rd is 1,3 and 3rs is 2x

[woeful latch]

what i mean is juvie troodon being slower but having venom won’t really hurt, quite opposite.

juvie troodon is microscopic, it doesn’t really need the speed to run away from things, it can easily hide. but having venom in its juvie stage might help killing ai and maybe other juvies once its a bit bigger

BUT, currently they just slowed troodon down and didn’t give it anything back

[desert arch]

Also pretty sure the 120dmg stage 3 pounce rumor was false as well

[woeful latch]

so it’s still nerfed? :(

[pliant elm]

Having your poison when you're juv would really help, but it doesn't require reduce your speed.

[desert arch]

Took me 3 pounces to kill a boar as a fg troodon in the HT

[coarse spruce]

If it were the case then it wouldn't take 6 pounces to kill a raptor

[desert arch]

Which is the same as live

[weak ermine]

You need to cover ground to be able to scavenge. You would starve at 13km/h

[woeful latch]

it does, to prevent fresh spawn juvie troodons from running around and trolling people

just spawn and pounce things giving them fog effect

[desert arch]

Oh no 2dmg per pounce, so horrible 😭

[woeful latch]

the fog tho🥹

[desert arch]

Remove fog, please

[woeful latch]

hopefully they will change it to something else

[desert arch]

Troodon fog even lets you sniff, dilo's doesnt

[woeful latch]

yeah lol

[desert arch]

Troodon fog is dilo fog from temu

[woeful latch]

tbf, fog helps a lot with disorientating the prey, also makes the nv worse which is good

so even tho it doesn’t suit troodon, it’s better than nothing lol, at least it has some kind of a buff

[pliant elm]

In my opinion, instead of the fog, the troodon should cause the victim to be disoriented by sounds, making them constantly hear the footsteps of the troodon running beside them.

With the tall grass coming in this would make the troodon practically invisible.

[wintry cipher]

#general-feedback message

The videos are just massively sped up clips of the statuses progressively getting more severe. Pretty sure they arent so animated in game and are more static.

[pseudo gate]

#general-feedback message personally, I like this giga way more than what we have so far lol

[lapis crag]

I like the model more overall. I just really like the touch that the beard gave Legacy Giga.

[pseudo gate]

I mean, model is an improvement, but its kinda not it imo

crests from og giga and mentioned beard would looks good on new model tbh

and im not the biggest fan of making giga covered with some kind of osteoderms or something, its looks weird

[lapis crag]

I was worried about the osteroderms too but they don't seem to pop anywhere near as much with skins on it so it's just texture. Crests I'm indifferent on. I just want the beard personally.

[pseudo gate]

beard is cool true

[gritty heart]

erm tf

[normal shuttle]

Dondi showed

[white elm]

#general-feedback message and Omni should not be one shotting a Herrera with 0 counter play! But that's just how it goes

[normal shuttle]

It’s not fresh at all

[gritty heart]

need to send devs to AA

[normal shuttle]

But still pretty garbage decision that late juvenile rex is faster than sub dilos and adult carnos

And juvenile troodons can only outrun sea turtles in terms of AI

Or fawns I guess

Baby boars straight up murder you

[gritty heart]

it just feels wrong for them to be that fast. Might as well make it fly too

[white elm]

Like Herrera not one shotting Omni is so cursed

[normal shuttle]

it felt very off, yes, but mechanically they cannot afford much more to survive

they had a hard enough time with their hunger drain and having to bite a goat 50 times in its moving ankles to kill it

so smaller, easier to catch AI or troodon is worthless

[storm aurora]

@noble verge it makes complete sense. Id like to see something tank 175 kg slamming into them from a tree thats almost 100 feet tall. That would almost instantly kill anything

[normal shuttle]

what is not realistic is that the herra survives but like

man, mechanically speaking, herra is on its most basic level a noob stomper

be aware of your surroundings and higher places and you're good

herra can't do anything once spotted

[woeful latch]

yeah, both deino and herrera are basically new player killers. once you know the safe spots you will NEVER die to a deino or herrera, it’s just honestly impossible

-# not me crossing the river at the worst spot possible to kill that cera and deino grabbing me..

[normal shuttle]

only real difference is that herra is harder to evade and has an infinitely higher skill ceiling

but there's like only 10 players like that in the entire community who mastered herra and roam around with it

[woeful latch]

tbf even as a good herrera your maximum is a dilo, everything else just walks away after the first pounce

[white elm]

untrue

I ALMOST killed a full grown maia with a partner you HAVE TO TRUST ME

it ran away tho

[woeful latch]

but what’s funny is sometimes i see people just walking 3 meters and sitting in a bush that is still next to that herrera, which is hilarious

[normal shuttle]

@storm aurora game design. Deino isn't meant to be a bruiser that relies on biting to take down things that are basically apexes

[woeful latch]

AHAHAH

[woeful latch]

tbf if they want realism then deino should also die from just one tail swing

[normal shuttle]

I also have my record but honestly these players might as well suffer greatly from a crippling lack of skill

[normal shuttle]

agreed

[white elm]

I DON'T HAVE FOOTAGE

BUT YOU HAVE TO TRUST ME

IT WAS SCARRED UP AND EVERYTHING

[white elm]

wait I think I do... in replays...

[woeful latch]

always funny when you see deinos going on land trying to kill stegos, like bro what are you even thinking about

[woeful latch]

I TRUST YOU DW

ofc it’s possible to kill if maia doesn’t walk away, but it can do it after the first pounce and survive

[woeful latch]

did you kill it? no way

[white elm]

replays are so annoying tho, I wish you could export them as mp4s

[normal shuttle]

yeah, it was hilarious

bro tried fighting me and also didnt let him heal ever

5 pounces to the head

[white elm]

did another deino come to steal the corpse (surely)

[normal shuttle]

no

all for me, and I killed a sub cera that came to eat

[woeful latch]

that’s insane lmaoo

[normal shuttle]

so true

most competent deinosuchus fan

[white elm]

I've also killed a fresh spawn deino with fresh spawn herrera LMAO

[woeful latch]

i think it was also a canni since it has full white skin

[woeful latch]

i killed a sub deino as a teno

[normal shuttle]

no HT

[woeful latch]

it tanked like 10 headshots lmao

[woeful latch]

ahh ok

[white elm]

deinos just do that lol

[icy lion]

@storm aurora It already takes double damage on the head

[sudden shell]

beat me to it

[white elm]

it should not but anyway

[sudden shell]

im indifferent to the increased headshot damage because im still not gonna attack the 6-ton living murder machine

[gritty heart]

max (without critical skill issues, with it can be the moon) is carno

[woeful latch]

they removed carnos bleed weakness in the HT, so now it’s unlikely

[gritty heart]

I see. Rip, murdering carnos was the only only act of good herras did

[woeful latch]

lmao ahah

[faint folio]

Honestly if we used realism as a basis, half of the roster would go extinct a second time because of being unable to compete with other dinosaurs from different time periods, and pretty much everyone would one shot everything else (and Herrera wouldn't climb, dilo wouldnt be venomous, allo probably wouldnt be able to pounce and cling to prey...

[merry ore]

Congratulations, you discovered how Nature works, herbivores tend to grow quickly in response to predation and tend to have a greater number than carnivores, my proposal is healthy when it does not affect the main gameplay, it just creates a NEW growth dynamic when born in a NEST.
Why growing up fast is not the answer? Shouldn't being born in a nest be advantageous? After all, you are born with the chance of having parents who will temporarily give you 300% G.

More large herbivore moving on the server = More food = More prey and predation.

Carnivores and Omnivores in the game can obtain a high growth rate by eating eggs, carnivores are the majority in the game, are you afraid of herbivores "dominating" the server but not afraid of Carnivores making up the majority of the server?

The most common thing is carnivore hunting carnivore in the game.

[white elm]

beipi wouldn't swim

[merry ore]

I made a different suggestion now, where herbivores can consume their own eggs from their nest to recover Diet, just like the rest of the cast.

[faint folio]

True. Ptera couldn't skim fish out of the water mid-flight. Troodon is debatable whether it is an actual species at this point as well

[oblique fable]

Question for some smart people- why do people disagree with this sort of locational damage? #general-feedback message

I'm not saying deino should win in a fight between steg just because it hit 4-5 head hits, but like- the head/neck are super vital and Stego should be played in a way where they defend their weakest spot, hence the back ways facing with tail facing whatever the steg would be defending

it would make sense for an animal thats meant to defend from the back to protect the front that doesn't have anything on it to defend it

[faint folio]

Because the stego already has increased damage to the head. Most playables have a 1.5x damage multiplier on the head hitbox. Stego has a 2x multiplier on the head

[normal shuttle]

It is vital enough when even 10 bites from a not wounded cera can kill a stego if all hit the head

And cera is not meant to go for stegos at all

[oblique fable]

That makes sense yeah, ik that sort of stuff exist- but the amount of downvotes really made me think people just didn't like the idea of Stego being weak from the front XD

[faint folio]

If a deino hits a headshot on a stego it does 500x2 = 1000 damage per hit. That's very impressive

[normal shuttle]

Stego would be weak on the front even without the multiplier because 50 damage with no cc is laughably bad compared to the thagomizer as defense

[oblique fable]

I'm def unsure what the person in the suggestion is referring to then if its 2x the actual hit, perhaps just a bad play on the Deino 🤷‍♂️

[faint folio]

6 hits to kill an animal with 6000 health is pretty impressive

[normal shuttle]

Deino shouldn’t be trying to attack stegos in land in the first place

[oblique fable]

true XD

[normal shuttle]

It’s meant to go for things that are significantly smaller than itself unless they’re in the water, which by then you can snatch or even just bite them

[faint folio]

And I would not say the stego is "tanking" 6 hits... The 6th one would be a kill

[oblique fable]

But like- I'm sure that person wasn't referring to Deino on land, since I've seen Deinos just suck complete dookie while trying to attack a Stego

[white elm]

The animal existed, its just not called Troodon

[normal shuttle]

Stegos is just out of the menu unless it tries to swim or it is under 4 tons

[oblique fable]

Sadly I rarely ever seen baby Stegs anymore :(

[normal shuttle]

^ the theropod itself did exist. It’s mostly formal naming stuff what made the denomination invalid. Not a big deal at all for the existence of the thing in the isle

[normal shuttle]

They got gud

[white elm]

It's called Stenonychosaurus (Latenivenatrix is a synonym of Stenon)

[faint folio]

True. But we only have teeth. It would be nearly impossible to reassign the fossils to an animal we have more remains from. And honestly the odds are good it also wasn't venomous

[old spindle]

was most definintly not venomous but pretty decent chance it was omnivorous

[icy lion]

@eternal moss That's aready a mutation, it's called Enhanced Digestion iirc

[thick summit]

yes

[eternal moss]

i thought that was just slower hunger drain

not diet drain

[thick summit]

it's a secret mutation

[haughty night]

So... your answer to my fear of mega herbi packs is to... make it easier for them to grow. Alrighty then.

"my proposal is healthy when it does not affect the main gameplay, it just creates a NEW growth dynamic when born in a NEST"

do you read what you type? honestly, do you? How does helping herbis achieve 300% in yet another way NOT affect main gameplay?

"Shouldn't being born in a nest be advantageous?"

we've gone over this. 6 mutations, at least 2 parents and siblings to keep you in a pack if the parents log out. It's already VERY beneficial for those being hatched.

"More large herbivore moving on the server = More food = More prey and predation"

Yeah that's how nature works, not how the isle works. More large herbivores? more of them get bored because no carnivore is actually strong enough to take on their 8 person megapack, which leads to carnivores being actively hunt down or kos herbis.

and carnivores do not make up such a majority of the server. I don't know where you play, but I don't see a carnivore overpopulation at all except cera, but that's a different story altogether. Carni hunting carni is so common BECAUSE fully grown big herbis are far too strong. These big herbis can only be hunted without risk of getting killed on sight in 2 hits when they're not fully grown. And you want to lessen that window even further for the nested herbis, which will already be stronger than usually because of their 6 mutations. I've already said all of this previously so I don't see the need to repeat myself over and over again, so please if you have any actual concerns that won't force me to repeat myself, do express them.

[eternal moss]

how do you get it?

[thick summit]

you've to keep up a good diet for a specific time

[merry ore]

Is there any plan to allow Herbivores to digest their eggs placed in the nest to recover their diet when they don't use the eggs to have more players?

[eternal moss]

oh okay

[junior nymph]

its also 10%

[faint folio]

I doubt it.. although functionally wouldn't it achieve the same thing if you could choose to gestate only the number of eggs you want, rather than the max?

[icy lion]

I haven't heard anything about that

[faint folio]

Functionally, I can't think of any living animal that is an herbivore that will eat it's own eggs... Although admittedly most herbivores that I can think of are mammals which don't lay eggs anyways, and besides realism isn't the best basis for a game.

[merry ore]

I play on official servers 90% of my time, people don't hunt Carnivore X Carnivore because herbivores are strong, they hunt them because they are more common and generally not mature, the only dinosaur that has any difficulty hunting Herbivore is Carno due to its low reactivity in direct confrontations.

What makes it difficult for carnivores to hunt is:

Omni: Its bleeding is not significant in most animals, it needs to be in groups to be effective and uses a lot of stamina

Troodon: Consumes a lot of stamina even when running, its speed is the same as a HERRERA and it needs a large pack to hunt large animals

Carno: Consumes a lot of stamina and its speed is common among carnivores, as the majority of the carnivore cast has 45-50 km speed, carno has 49 km by default.

The current cast has status issues and is not well adapted to fighting the current herbivores

[haughty night]

yeah... exactly. So making helping nested herbis grow faster isn't going to solve anything. Even after carni mid tiers and apexes like bary, sucho, allo and rex are added, the current roster + trike will be still strong enough to give them a good fight. But as is? Herbis outclass carnivores, and definitely don't need any growth boosts at this time

[haughty night]

and yes, carnivores avoid herbivores that are fully grown because they're far too strong and generally always in groups. Only time I can imagine a dibble, maia or stego losing is to themselves. Except dibble, I reckon 4 ceras can take a fg dibble. But still, it takes 4 for one and they're rarely alone

[merry ore]

What is the problem with rapid growth in a specific condition? (Child)

I would love to have a pack of Tenos like I did once for eggs and hours later I had to leave, you will hardly see their adult offspring because time is expensive and time consuming, carnivores in the current game can grow quickly by eating eggs, why can't herbivores?
A lot of people don't play herbivores other than Tenonto or even Diablo due to the incredibly long growth time, why can't the nest experience be improved by using something that most of the cast can but the herbivore cast can't uh?

[frank tapir]

maybe non-cannibalistic dinos shouldn't be able to do that

[faint folio]

At least partially because herbivores generally have larger group sizes than carnivores at equivalent weight classes

[merry ore]

This is not cannibalism, in nature several herbivorous animals, especially those that are born from eggs, tend to digest them to obtain calcium and other proteins.

[gritty heart]

Most of the herbivores people encounter make poor prey. Having more dibbles or stegos isn’t going to make them any less difficult to actually hunt. Maybe for tenos and below, but having them grow faster makes them vulnerable for less time

[merry ore]

More food available, also don't forget that Herbivores killing others is common, especially when their numbers explode, as happened in Maia's release.

The difficulty of hunting them will remain the same, in addition we will have new carnivores that will certainly threaten a group of herbivores

[gritty heart]

If it was only for certain herbivores, like dryo etc(also to encourage dryo being played) sure, but we don’t need trikes “going to plaid” with their growth

[haughty night]

"carnivores in the current game can grow quickly by eating eggs"

you get the nutrients the mother used to gestate them. And if your mother has a perfect diet, then she probably has the food from which she got it, which you can just... eat directly. You'd get more diet value from organs than your mother would, so eggs I'd say are actually quite inefficient to grow as a carni

"A lot of people don't play herbivores other than Tenonto or even Diablo due to the incredibly long growth time"

yeah, which is why herbis either need to be nerfed or they need something more to keep herbi life more exciting,

"I would love to have a pack of Tenos like I did once for eggs and hours later I had to leave, you will hardly see their adult offspring because time is expensive and time consuming"

I'm sure you'd love it. Not sure the ceratos your teno army manages to see will love it as much. You won't witness your kids grow up, which is good. Because then you won't a family megapack.

"why can't the nest experience be improved by using something that most of the cast"

eggs are inefficient, leaving them to egg eaters is best. I advocated for carnis to not be able to eat eggs, but that now that I think about it, it doesn't even matter because they're just so inefficient. Plus herbis have mushrooms in sanc, so I think eggs for carnis isn't that unfair at all.

[indigo gulch]

Yeah eggs barely give any nutrition to juvi’s

It’s just better to ask the parents almost all of the time

[merry ore]

I managed to stay on a diet 300% as deino while I was 35% old.

[indigo gulch]

congrats?

It’s still not better than mushrooms

[gritty heart]

The only bad thing about mushrooms is that they neither glow nor can be sniffed, but that’s it’s own issue that should be fixed

[frank tapir]

I still don't understand how you think eating their own eggs will increase the number of herbivore players

[merry ore]

What? This is not a feat, it is something present in the game that people don't usually use because they don't know how much eggs in theory could sustain you

[merry ore]

What do you think happens when the chances of adult animals increase, increasing the general population, causing these same babies that will become adults to start laying eggs? After all, a person without much patience for spending 6 hours could reduce this to 4 hours? This reduces AFK time (Boredom of spending a long time growing)

[indigo gulch]

That’s assuming growing=boring

[merry ore]

Growth is only boring when it is extremely long sir

[gritty heart]

Herbivores won’t practically grow much faster because they can already do that with sanctuary mushrooms.

[frank tapir]

people that are nested in are already more likely to reach fg, plus reducing growth time by 2 hours by eating eggs is ridicules

[indigo gulch]

Not to mention, if you can get the diets from the eggs that your mother made, wouldn’t that mean said diet is closeby?

[merry ore]

Carnivores and omnivores can do this, what are you complaining about bruh

[frank tapir]

they shouldn't

[candid phoenix]

Would be interested to know more what kind of user detection the client is doing and what kind of inputs are tracked to give better feedback, i've only been playing for a few weeks so i'm lacking clarity around the evasive movement/speedhacks overall

[icy lion]

@quartz meteor It has shorter growth in HT

[quartz meteor]

Oh nice! I did not know that! Thanks! 🙂

[pliant elm]

How short? Close to Cerato's which is 2h05m or did they only shorten it by a few minutes?

[icy lion]

Close to cera's

[pliant elm]

That's good. I hope they also buff Troodon after all those unnecessary nerfs they did to the poor thing.

[faint folio]

My limited understanding of the topic is that's it's essentially a game of cat and mouse between hackers and anti cheat. I bet there's probably multiple ways to achieve a specific category of cheats (for example- the way you suggest in the suggestion for 1-shot kills would work if the hack functions by increasing the hacking Dino's damage stat. But it might not detect other more convoluted ways of achieving a similar result).

Either way, they probably won't share exactly how the anticheat works... It's 100% easier to circumvent if you know what kind of user detection and inputs are tracked, and what isn't 😦

[candid phoenix]

Yeah the constant development is interesting to follow, even if hackers are able to obfuscate how they do the damage, the victim will still receive 100% health depletion in a short tickrate which should be easy enough to track if previous velocity is calculated to avoid detecting fall damage OSK (can you imagine being autobanned for hacking after falling off a mountain, i'd be furious)

Understandable they won't reveal actual methodology, but there's only so much uninformed suggestions from me will assist

[magic robin]

#general-feedback message @tender latch i think it is just a bug. i have NEVER in the over 1k hours on this game, had a moment of actual dead silence
there is always ambient noise for me

[faint folio]

Yeah I have had dead silence in game before, but it was a bug for sure (my own dinosaur made no noise during 1-call)

[magic robin]

yeah see and thats a bug. the person i @'ed was kinda saying its a regular occurence and that there is intentionally no ambientt noises at times

[faint folio]

There's almost always some kind of environmental ambiance - wind, foliage, random noises of animals that aren't playable, twigs snapping etc, and if you have music audio enabled they also tend to play tracks as well

[faint folio]

I saw the suggestion. I was commenting on it too 😁 just didn't think pinging you was appropriate

[magic robin]

ah i getcha :D

[normal shuttle]

Alright

there goes my monthly big feedback

next one in March

[gritty heart]

#general-feedback message

love the suggestion

This is all I can think of when I see the minmi image

[coarse spruce]

aaaaa why is gallimimus bleed so divisive I don't understand

[gritty heart]

Because gallimimus mains are pests

Gallo deserves to suffer

[tardy talon]

Real

[pliant elm]

War for gallis bleed back ✊✊

[maiden breach]

People have been saying this for over a year at least....can we please fix croc gameplay for gods sake....way to many safe spots to drink and dinos drink to full way to fast.

Increase the noise they make when they drink and make it take way longer and remove like 95% of all safe spots to drink as well. I shouldnt spend 8 hours on a croc and see only one land dino the entire time. There is a reason crocs all just eat each other its cause there is no other food source whatsoever....

[frank tapir]

they're meant to eat each other

[maiden breach]

Eating each other is fine but going 9 hours or longer and seeing one land dino is a real issue. The only time you can actually hunt land dinos is in like 2 or 3 spots in the entire map.

[past crystal]

https://discordapp.com/channels/401464048610312193/401481371249541120/1345207566728167466
@normal shuttle there's already megalania art / models

[faint folio]

@charred oak they're actively working on adding rex right now- it's in the dev blogs. And they can't add indominus because it's a fictional dinosaur and it's copyrighted as a part of Jurassic Park/World franchise

JP can't copyright T rex or spino because they were real animals (in the same way that Life of Pi can't copyright tigers)

[latent olive]

@limber hull @white elm #general-feedback message

[faint folio]

They also can't add indoraptor, the good dinosaur, or any other copyrighted character from other media for the same reason

[charred oak]

T rex would be great, thank you

[white elm]

indominus

[unreal ridge]

💀

[limber hull]

the mighty

[short sequoia]

Does anyone know how carnosaurus ramming works and if nests are supposed to be reusable?

[wintry locust]

anyone else have issues as a diablo seeing your food sources?

[unreal ridge]

Nests are reusable and carno’s ram works

Nesting has a cooldown after eggs are laid

[limber hull]

Bro what flight it’s stegosaurus lol

#general-feedback message

[gritty heart]

Flight just means fleeing

Fight or flight response is whether you fight the threat or try to escape it

[white elm]

stego is NOT a runner

[gritty heart]

Anything can flee. Even a baby crawling away is fleeing. Whether it’s effective or not is a different question.

Anyways, stego may stink at running, but on land it’s still worse to be a stinky deino

[limber hull]

sure but deino is the closest thing we have to a fish lol

[gritty heart]

You gotta take your wins where you can. Stego can’t be picky about who it outruns (though usually stegos are chasing deinos on land so eh)

[urban flax]

Well stego IS picky about what it outruns
And it outruns deino

[woeful latch]

#general-feedback message why are people so against this? just curious

[white elm]

its just not what carno is meant to be doing

it charges, gets a knockdown, and kills small prey on the spot

it has no need for bleed

[latent olive]

more importantly, why does he spell something as "suhin"

[woeful latch]

yes, but that doesn’t mean it shouldn’t also deal bleed. they’re not talking about making it a bleeder, it’s about ANY bleed

i’m just surprised it got downvoted like this, usually all the “buff carno” suggestions are getting ista upvoted without people actually reading lol

[white elm]

there are more reasons for it not to do bleed than for it to do bleed

[white elm]

I insta downvote any "buff carno weight" suggestions

[woeful latch]

same LMAO

[white elm]

[woeful latch]

for example?

btw i’m not arguing, im actually very neutral, i don’t mind it having bleed and at the same time i don’t care if it doesn’t deal bleed

[normal shuttle]

I know, but I just wanted to voice which picks imo would be pretty good for the long term after our current queue

Just like we have had magy model and animations for a while but it is not even in the list yet

[woven bane]

thing is it can’t do knock-downs 10/10 times

[normal shuttle]

Because the bite needs some usage too

And as said above bleed is overkill and not really something necessary for the charge

[woven bane]

just helps with tracking tbf

[woeful latch]

hm, no. you don’t bite when you have to charge and you don’t charge when you need to bite, it’s 2 different attacks, you don’t use one instead of another

[gritty heart]

Carno’s horns aren’t really that sharp looking. Additionally, they aren’t really well positioned (it would need o angle it’s head a bit to the side, and also downwards, a position that would risk hurting sits neck and wouldn’t allow it to bite quite as quickly, which is what it’s species is built around) or large enough for it to really make sense as a bleeder.

Now hyper carno, with it’s forward facing gaugers, has horns that could make sense for bleed.

Just look at this guy, a straight on charge wouldn’t piece much. Wouldn’t even really hit the tips.

[woeful latch]

i mean, that’s a fair point. but not everything is realistic in evrima, like irl teno probably wouldn’t be able to kick at all.

and i don’t want carno to be a bleeder, that person was talking about any bleed, just minimal amount

yeah and look at the teno, that thing shouldn’t be able to kick

[gritty heart]

I’m talking even about it’s exaggerated isle model.

The isle teno model looks like it could somewhat kick.

[woeful latch]

oh not at all tbh

[gritty heart]

If the isle had carno horns pointy and forward facing then maybe I could see them giving it a head tuck bleed causing ram. But as it is they aren’t even close to the right direction. It would have to slam its head sideways when standing next to you.

[woven bane]

not really, its forelimbs are small and wouldn’t be able to support much of its weight to kick

[woeful latch]

well tbf it’s all up to devs to give it bleed or not, they didn’t so i guess there’s a reason for that, i don’t even really care about that

i like carno anyway👹

[gritty heart]

The ram also just is annoying because I swear I see that suggestion too frequently. Do they think they are herra smh.

[white elm]

It would only help with fighting... things its size... like cera... which it is not meant to do

https://tenor.com/view/the-isle-carnotaurus-the-isle-evrima-evrima-dinosaur-gif-16978147132789972619

[woven bane]

how

[white elm]

again, there's more reasons for it not to be added

Don't add:
-Helps with big game fighting
-Unrealistic
-Doesn't support carno's niche at all

Add:
-Tracking???

[woven bane]

you still haven’t explained how it’ll help it fight stuff its size

[white elm]

do I really need to?

[woven bane]

yes

[white elm]

cera has to manage more bleed = harder to fight back against carno

[woven bane]

manage? nobody is proposing for carno to deal an immense amount of bleed.
it used to utilize its bite which did bleed half a year ago and that didn’t aid it in anything but tracking

[woeful latch]

cera has 50% bleed resistance, it wouldn’t care

especially if bleed is minimal

[woven bane]

not even an omni would care

[rose pendant]

@unreal ridge I like the idea of pachy stunning when it fractures an opponent, makes it a one time use and stops the infinite stun to death that they used to do

[white elm]

still

any advantage against big game prey is an advantage

this is not the way to buff carno

[normal shuttle]

Real

[woven bane]

it is literally not an advantage what you on about

[white elm]

more bleed = advantage

[woven bane]

what would losing 0,5% bleed help in

[white elm]

any advantage against doing things carno is not supposed to be doing is an advantage

everyone hates cera because it's too good at doing what it's not supposed to

why are we clapping and cheering for a change that will help carno do what it's not supposed to

[woven bane]

it wouldn’t, advantage means this

[frank tapir]

it's more favourable than and superior to it's current position

[woven bane]

it wouldn’t impact any matchups?

[white elm]

rephrase that to anything that helps carno fight big game is still help, no matter how minor

[frank tapir]

it would give anything fighting carno more bleed

[white elm]

still it helps carno just that little bit more against BIG GAME PREY

[woven bane]

ye the charge just needs a massive buff in another area to make it more potent

[woven bane]

eh not really

[urban flax]

The art of explaining 1+1=1, by Flows

[dawn hound]

I mean aint carno ment to be small game hunter?

[white elm]

that's what I'm saying

[gritty heart]

It probably wouldn’t be a significant advantage (depending on what minor bleed means since the suggestion doesn’t say), but any buff is a buff.

[woven bane]

point is that it wouldn’t impact any of its matchups, too much for you to grasp?

[frank tapir]

so do you just want the bleed for tracking? because from what you've said that's all you think it'll help with, if it's not affecting any matchups

[woven bane]

ye it’ll be useful for that

[urban flax]

It would impact all of them, if ever so slightly

[white elm]

just bite it?????

[woeful latch]

tbf even if it’s a specialist it shouldn’t be ONLY small game hunter, nothing stops it from hunting tenos and maias.

it’s like if we made cera purely scavenger, without being able to do anything else, that would be lame as hell

[woven bane]

really, explain

[white elm]

you don't need this explained

[urban flax]

It deals bleed in addition to the normal damage

There really is nothing more to explain

If you increased charge damage, it would impact its matchups, right ?

So if you add bleed damage it still does

[woven bane]

how would this impact its matchups though

[urban flax]

Not in the same way, and probably not as much
But it still does

[urban flax]

Because then the opponent is bleeding on top of suffering damage ??
How can you not grasp that ?

[woven bane]

dmg is critical not 0.2% bleed

[woeful latch]

it doesn’t tbh, outside of making stam regen worse, but the bleed is minumal anyway

[urban flax]

random number

[woven bane]

i know that but its so insignificant it dosen’t even matter lmao

[gritty heart]

So it would buff all of its matchups by allowing it to more easily track things

[white elm]

yea

it doesn't matter

so it doesn't need it

if it doesn't matter, don't go adding things

[heady geode]

Ain’t cera meant to be a corpse scavenger, but is currently God

https://tenor.com/view/the-isle-carnotaurus-the-isle-evrima-evrima-dinosaur-gif-16978147132789972619

[visual mural]

87?!

[white elm]

if bleed on carno's charge wouldn't matter anyway, don't go adding it

[gritty heart]

It’s a bully in an elementary school.

[woven bane]

please, there’s this thing called a hyperbole

[urban flax]

Stop using hyperbole in arguments and you'll notice people take you more seriously

[woeful latch]

yoo, you’re taking this way too seriously

[dawn hound]

good question. It is infact ment to be, but i think it should get a little debuffed.

[urban flax]

That's the opposite, I'm explaining why I'm not taking it seriously

[woeful latch]

we’re entering “personal insults” stage of the discussion

[dawn hound]

https://tenor.com/view/michael-jackson-comendo-picoca-gif-9669437860846841235

[white elm]

don't go tampering with things and adding things that "don't matter" to things that work fine (hypothetically)

that'll just create more problems in the future

[woven bane]

you also use figure of speech🤷‍♂️

[urban flax]

As every person in the world does

[gritty heart]

Not everyone, that’s hyperbole

[limber hull]

erm... what about non-verbal people?

bubulblu gets it wrong yet again

[woven bane]

no problem with me using it then

[urban flax]

Right
Every person who uses verbal language

[white elm]

https://tenor.com/view/smh-no-nope-wallace-wells-gif-4246009

[woven bane]

all this over me making a hyperbolical statement to emphasize my point, really that deep for u?

[urban flax]

It's not deep at all
In fact, it's how shallow it is that bothers me

[woven bane]

“how shallow”

maybe address the actual argument instead of nitpicking to avoid it

[urban flax]

There is nothing left to say about it

[woven bane]

u got that right

[gritty heart]

This is some serious herbi main behavior

[woeful latch]

hm