general-feedback-discussion

[icy lion]

@weak herald Evidence is not a requirement, just leave the box blank if you don't have any

[urban flax]

It encourages the mindset of some animals needing to "group up to be viable" since now you'll be able to spawn in a group directly so there'll be no excuse to say those can't work

[limber hull]

you can already spawn as a group tho

[urban flax]

nuh uh

[limber hull]

lmao

[boreal briar]

@weak herald as Lunary said, you can leave the pic/video blank. A good description, and reproductive steps (if possible) are probably a great help.

But, if you want a quick place to upload pictures, try ImgBB. Snap a screenshot with F12 using Steam, then drag and drop it onto their website. Bingo bango

[cedar drum]

@austere axle instead of removing half the map, just remove half, or 2/3's of the god damn assets on the map, does the exact same without the whole removal of half the map

[limber hull]

what

removing assets on the map is an also not great idea

[cedar drum]

why not

theres a lot of rock assets that dont serve any real purpose

same with plants, trees, little human assets etc. you of course do need to keep some assets, but gateway just has far too many

of course any assets that are removed would have to be checked up on a bit, to make sure there arent any weird holes, inaccessible points, and other stuff

[limber hull]

removing 2/3rds of the assets would literally leave you with an unfinished looking wasteland mess

[cedar drum]

i mean... the game really doesnt run well... ill take less assets for the ability to actually play the game with decent graphics AND over 30 fps

[limber hull]

i'd take a finished looking game

[cedar drum]

well the isle is a finished looking game, its really pretty, but it does NOT run well in the slightest

it should not be running as bad as it is, and i think its probably cause of the large amount of assets. I had a friend who checked to see how many assets there were, he said upwards of 500 rock assets per mountain, im not sure if hes 100% correct but it would explain the extremely bad fps

the game should not have to look like this to get decent fps

[hidden mist]

With what GPU is this running?

[wooden agate]

yeah im not having this issue

[hidden mist]

I didn't see anyone complaining about fps (not in hotspots, tho) if they have a GPU that is at least better than 2060.

[limber hull]

but... those settings don't even impact asset count

[cedar drum]

i dont remember... but i run pretty much all games (except the isle) at 50+ fps at decent graphics

[hidden mist]

GPUs older than 7 y. o. or of low-pricing segment of course are having problems, even with other games.

[cedar drum]

its moreso the fact that i have to use those graphics to play the game, i play games at higher graphics and get decent fps. The isle just plummits

and it is ONLY the isle

[mild isle]

The new nvidia driver update broke the isle graphics completely btw- the one thing that made the game look good for me AKA DLSS now gives my game 3 glitchy squares.

I’m not sure if that’s anything the isle can fix or nah but yeah

[blazing grove]

#general-feedback message

[valid ether]

#general-feedback message I am legit curious why people like AI dilo clones; if anyone has the time to enlighten me

Or is it something about my wording?

[tight iron]

no clue

if frogs cant work, dilos wont

[urban flax]

The concept of hallucinogenic venom is way more interesting than standard DoT venom

But you can't have it work without fake dinos

[cyan flame]

Why not?

[frail tartan]

love being disconnected when im at 1 in queue

[urban flax]

How else ?

[valid ether]

Hm, but don't you find that it's too dysfunctional to be reliable?
There are are other ways to do hallucination, would you still incist on using AI?

[urban flax]

On-screen screamers ?

[cyan flame]

Could just have the fog/shadows/sounds/other effects

[urban flax]

Tell me about these other ways

[urban flax]

So no hallucinations

[cyan flame]

Don't really need the shadow clones for some kind of venom that gives you various effects

[cyan flame]

You don't think hallucinating fog in the middle of the bright day, and sounds, count?

[valid ether]

Warping, make dilos blend in with the enviroment, random dino sounds, footsteps that aren't really there

[urban flax]

It's not as distracting or disorienting as actual hallucinations are

[valid ether]

I'm just slinging from the top of my head

[cyan flame]

It can be if you do it properly

[frail tartan]

fix the queue disconnecting people at position 1 in queue or whatever bs it is i went thru a 30 player queue just to get disconnected when im at 1 position left. like the hell???

[cyan flame]

There's no need for shadow clones if you're just looking for hallucinations and other effects to trick a player

[frail tartan]

it gave no reason just that it disconnected me just cause the game felt like it

[valid ether]

Maybe put that in the feedback channel? This is the discussion channel

[frail tartan]

i cant they deleted my thing i put in their

so now i gotta wait 6 hours to talk in there again

[cyan flame]

Might count as a bug, could try reporting it as such

[icy lion]

#🐞-evrima-bug-reports-🐞

[cyan flame]

Go away, you! xD

[valid ether]

Maybe I'd would have to add some alternate venom mechanics to get more agreement

[cyan flame]

Maybe. But I think people like the idea of using clones as damage, for good and ill. I'd have only used them as pure hallucinations to allow for the real dilo to get more attacks in, but maybe that could be modified in the future somehow.

[valid ether]

Yeah, I only think it should change because I think it makes the dilo weaker.
When allowing the "hallucinations" to do damage the dilo must be made slighly weaker to balance it out.
If damage were removed from the AI it would allow for more strenght/control to be given to the player.

I think I could be onboard with such a concept

[cyan flame]

True. But they want dilo to be able to do damage from a distance last I heard, so shadow clones it is. But maybe at some point with modding and server options, we could have a dilo more tuned for actual mind games than just sending clones to do it's job

[lucid mauve]

Wait, dont hallucination do dmg now ? im almost sure i died to one as herrera lol

[cyan flame]

They always did

[valid ether]

That's the problem

[lucid mauve]

Yea i learned it hard way, i tho it didnt lol

Im fine with it tho

But does it do dmg or bleed etc ?

[valid ether]

Don't you think it makes the dilo weaker?
Considering how poor the AI is around landscape obstacles

[lucid mauve]

Cus im guessing dilo has bad bite force

[lucid mauve]

Yea, true. You can easy avoid them

But vs larger stuff, im not sure if its easy to avoid it.

[cyan flame]

To be fair, they are planning to fix that

And they did, I think at least, make clones uncounterable again, hopefully only temporarily but still

As in, can't actually hit them before they deliver damage anymore, unless that changed again

[valid ether]

I don't see quite how they can, in my eyes it would be very difficult to make an AI that is reliable enough.
But then, I'm no professional programmer

Still there will always, be certain scenarios where the AI will falter, and my issue then is; that it won't be the player's fault.
And that is the core of my argument

If a player dies I think it should be on them, not the quality of AI

Or the player's performance, rather

[balmy socket]

my game crashed with my dino on the riverbank, will I lose my character? I'm reconnecting

[valid ether]

Good luck

Maybe, maybe not

[balmy socket]

😩

[verbal basin]

And if

The herbs who ate the sanc food gave ALL diets like the mushrooms 🧐

[crude girder]

@vale pawn for your Oro dust cloud idea, I'd suggest something besides a rapid blinking effect, as the flashes between light and dark could induce eyestrain

A narrowing of eyes, or a generic blur effect may be less strenuous options

[blazing grove]

#general-feedback message

[opaque inlet]

If anyone wants to talk about Yutyrannus and 'what if we added it to the isle,' since we have 0 idea what color pattern it had, I think it would be cool if it had some kind of spotted or stripped pattern on it's feathers with the intent of blending in to jungle foliage, kinda like a leopard or a tiger or something.

I have heard people talk about different animals being equipped to live in different areas, and some being meant for the mountains while others being meant for the coast.

I think, we have several 'plains' specialists. Galli and Carno at least. Herra is a forest specialist. Maybe Yuty could be some kind of specialist too? What for I don't know. I'm thinking either forest or mountain/rocky area.

In the fossils I looked at, the vertebre looked thinner and didn't have those, what-you-call-'em long thingys sticking off of them that most critters have on their backs to make them stable. Instead, the vertebre of the tail look more akin to what I see on the vertebre of mammal tails, to say, they look flexible. Additionally they were fossilized often with some considerable bend to them, admittedly however this COULD be due to broken bones and who knows what else during fossilization.

Well, anyway. Say if it could raise it's tail, maybe the extra tail flexibility was for extra balance? If it was to live in mountain areas for the isle, perhaps we could let it jump (Only say as much as a teno) and let it be the only thing of it's size able to do so. Might be neat to give it a pattern like a snow leopard too.

Or maybe it would have short, but directional jumping - To be able to 'target jump' like herra, but have no ability to climb or cling, and no fall damage resistance, and no ability to use the jump to combat anything. But that the directional jump would be 'because it balances with it's tail' or something.

Or maybe it could have some kind of 'pounce' where it leaps out at things as a form of attack, they are posed fighting in a museum somewhere one jumping towards another. What damage this would do or how it would work, I don't know yet.

Except that, I wouldn't want it to be overpowered.

I feel like, we don't have enough things that can eat solo raptors. Like, viably. Obviously cera has them on it's diet, but they can run away and jump onto tall rocks where cera can't get them. It seems like only herra and carno can even think of solo raptors as prey. People would say 'dilo' but with it's bad bleed resist and turn radius, if the raptor stands it's ground and abuses the turn radius to get a pounce, it's pretty tough for the dilo - particularly to further chase as then it would be bleeding rapidly. Carno is kinda in the same boat with a bad turn radius and bad bleed, but a bit tougher than a solo dilo.

But as soon as raptors have groups both herra and carno can't really eat them. They can kill some, but their chance of being able to eat their kill when a pack is around seems minimal.

Perhaps Yuty could be suited to hunt solo raptors?

[vale pawn]

Didnt consider that, ill fix that when my timer ends

[lucid mauve]

I also agree on this, since they normally dont come as 1. I dont fear much either when playing omni. But looks like allo will get some kind of ambush. And im sure if it gets a hold on a omni its dead.

[opaque inlet]

I mean, I think this puts it in the same boat as herra.

I suppose if it has the bleed resist of Cera then it'll be a little sturdier

But it better ambush pretty fast to get that raptor.

Perhaps to be a good predator to solo raptors, a Yuty could run the same speed but with less stamina. Give it the same ability to jump up rocks, and better bleed resist than carno, but since it looks a bit small (Looks kinda cera-sized) then it gets pinned by 2 raptors just like Cera does so it has to respect groups of raptors still.

Giving it that speed will make it respectably fast for getting away from predators too. Not too sure how it would defend itself from carno, but it looks like carno is getting a size nerf so maybe it would work out if yuty is cera-sized

The jump will definitely help it too

As that would be it's best method for escaping dilos.

I suppose if it needs some kind of fancy schmancy move, the 'jump' attack could work like a weaker carno charge - takes considerable stamina, give it charges... I think it could have kinda, a long-ish animation maybe, where the victim is stunned just long enough for the animation to complete - Only a small stun, not a knockdown. Well, it might be a knock-down on something small like a raptor maybe.

But then we have to consider, how would Pachy survive such a creature?

Perhaps it would be particularly easy to break Yuty's legs.

It doesn't make sense for a large jumper...

But I prefer that things be balanced.

Or I suppose, just make sure that it's stam is lower than pachy, but I don't think that's good enough if you also give Yuty a good turn radius

And it NEEDS a good turn radius if it's going to be in any way scary to raptors.

Because if it's stamina lasts it long enough to bite the pachy to death then that's all that is needed...

As for the jump, my thought process behind a long animation is so that, if you have friends they can attack the yuty for free while it's attacking you/in the animation

And I don't want it to be a copy of a raptor pin so I think it should have a very set amount of time that it goes for and does a very set amount of damage.

[hidden mist]

@wary flower #general-feedback message do you get 20 fps when it’s sunset/sunrise or random jungles?

[wary flower]

yes but sometimes even on grasslands

[wary flower]

do u have a fix for that?

[hardy vine]

@boreal briar why dont you wanna counter omni attck, the omnis thing is onnoying and op?

[hidden mist]

Sadly, nope. Just wanted to get a small confirmation of my theory. I reported these framedrops several times already, but nothing has been done to address the problem, it seems. It’s been like that since early Gateway, except maybe there weren’t random fps drops at day/night (but still were at dusk/dawn).

When Gateway first came out I tried to figure out what caused these sunset/sunrise framedrops, https://youtu.be/xcTKPcS8LPs?si=BvBWFWdcNMxB8uam in this video I tested different conditions and somewhat came to a conclusion that the weather mostly was the one to blame. However, I know that the weather is currently turned off on Officials, so if you experienced sunset/sunrise framedrops playing on them, then I have no other idea than another optimisation issue xd

[boreal briar]

Meh. I think if they are heavier than you, and jump on you, it makes sense to get pinned without much recourse. Maybe they could make some more dinosaurs fight back and damage the pouncer like Troo?

[mental mountain]

Oreo do you just downvote everything

[boreal briar]

It feels like I downvoted a lotta stuff recently yeah I'm picky

[mental mountain]

I checked and like 80% of the feedback is downvoted by you

[boreal briar]

I think Gen1 should get mutations, but the Gen 2 should stay as normal people. They have tools for things like that, like night vision goggles.

[mental mountain]

That is a normal person thing

Sit in the dark for 30 minutes and you see real well

It'd be a miniscule change in light

[boreal briar]

Oooh you meant like that, I thought you meant as like, a mutation. I can get behind having your eyes adjusted to the light, assuming having something like a flashlight flashed at you ruins the vision. I think it'd be neat.

My bad

[mental mountain]

Yei

Yeah gen 2 should not have mutations or diets

[boreal briar]

I could see diets? But I'd be fine with not having to manage that on top of worrying about survival as a human.

[opaque inlet]

@Fuzzy

Every time I try to click 'check' on your feedback about the carno changes, it un-does my check. Does anyone know what's going on with that?

I tested, I am able to check other things and I am also unable to X your feed back as well.

[boreal briar]

@limpid breach GG Stormi. I agree it was a bit dumb that you couldn't at least kill me for pouncing your friend.I ended up getting you two, but I also bled out if that's any consolation

[opaque inlet]

Like I'm just not allowed to put my feedback on that one thing

[icy lion]

They blocked you

[opaque inlet]

Ah okay, thank you.

[boreal briar]

Fuzzy has blocked you. They seem to block a lot of people. I think anyone who downvotes them, at least they did the last time I asked someone

[opaque inlet]

That's odd, I feel certain I've been able to check or x their things before.

[limpid breach]

GG! The one u pounced first was me lol, my group member is the one who got staggered and died because of it

[opaque inlet]

Oh, then that explains it. Funny because I check them more than I x them. I like most of their ideas.

[boreal briar]

And yet now he will just continue to get fewer and fewer votes, Checks or otherwise.

[opaque inlet]

I recall having pleasant conversations with them too. Kinda disappointing but oh well.

Yeah now he can't get my check

[latent olive]

gonna test this theory

[limber hull]

i think mr carnotaurus woke canni has it out for me LMAO

[barren crater]

They've been muted for 5 months btw

[limber hull]

committed

[barren crater]

kind of funny ngl

[limber hull]

it's very funny

[light rock]

@fading pecan You dont need to grow in one session

[fading pecan]

It’s still an insane amount of time to put into getting one Dino to adulthood

[light rock]

i dont think anything will exceed 10 hours growth time, if they add something at that duration, then I'd be against it

5 hours is a fair growth time for a base deino

[opaque inlet]

I feel like it would be not too bad for literally every critter's grow times to be cut in half.

Currently they kinda grow slower than they do in the past, because now you need perfect diet to grow at the normal speed you used to grow at, and grow like twice as slow without it

[radiant nest]

Maybe some of the larger sauropods, maybe

[limber hull]

sounds way too easy, not a fan

[light rock]

fair enough

[light rock]

too slow and its a drag, too fast and its too noticeable

hypsi is already 30mins base iirc and that goes by instantly

[fading pecan]

@verbal basin A Stego can beat a Deino in a 1v1, even a 1v2

[limber hull]

(assuming the deino wants to take that fight)

[verbal basin]

and dont run to water

and stego is not at water

[limber hull]

i dont think deino's matchups are super relevant when deino can just not engage with anyone it doesn't want to

the only thing that can force deino into a fight is beipi, and well, we all know how that goes for beipi

[fading pecan]

Even if the stego is on the bank, it still wins. FG Deino can’t grab a FG stego. Only stun them for a brief moment

[limber hull]

it can grab a swimming stego

also, again, deino is meant to ambush primarily

[fading pecan]

Not FG

[verbal basin]

something needs to be done against deino
he just op instakilling everything it can grab

[fading pecan]

Except a stego

[verbal basin]

with no escape chance even if ur fg and full stam

[limber hull]

it can grab FG stegos while swimming

[fading pecan]

….

[verbal basin]

swimming one
and almost no one use stego bc he just bad

[limber hull]

you can test it if you want, it works

[verbal basin]

i got like 2-3 fg deino, nothing killed me

[fading pecan]

That’s wild if that true. Just started to play again, been about a year. But a year ago that was not a thing 😂

[verbal basin]

only died from water loss while trying to reach sp

[radiant nest]

It’s a pretty recent change

[fading pecan]

Wild

Looks like ima target FG stegos now lmao

[radiant nest]

But again, only works if the stego is swimming

[fading pecan]

Gotcha

[verbal basin]

hope they do something against deino fast, dying fg without escape or without a way to know there is stego at water is not fun anymore

cant see him inside of water, cant hear him

[verbal basin]

deino*

[radiant nest]

I honestly think deino is in a mostly fine place rn, probably one of the best places it’s been in. The recent growth changes has made it much less common, which is very good

[verbal basin]

idk i think there should be at least a way to know deino is at water

[radiant nest]

And it’ll likely become more rare as other large ambushers are added

[verbal basin]

was playing with dibble, there was no deino at water, one logged and got me

[radiant nest]

Honestly I haven’t died to a deino that I tried to avoid in a long time

[verbal basin]

no escape chance even with me being fg and full stam and full hp
no way to know he was there too

[radiant nest]

There’s always places you can go where they can’t get you or where there is almost certainly none

[opaque inlet]

I think most critters just afk in a bush until they reach 100. Then die to some dumb mistake as an adult - at least, that's what I watch other people do.

[limber hull]

okay, and lowering growth time makes that easier

so you're encouraging more of not engaging with the game

[verbal basin]

i was far from any safe water spot at mz, with nest and there was no deino before

[opaque inlet]

I'm saying they're gonna do it no matter what you do.

[radiant nest]

What mz?

[limber hull]

ah, defeatism

[opaque inlet]

At least if they grow faster then they'll engage sooner

[verbal basin]

high one

only one close water spot

[opaque inlet]

Then maybe less people will be in bushes and more people walking around playing the game.

[radiant nest]

There are at least two ponds close to highlands that are safe, one at the northern ridge area and one around jungle I sector

[limber hull]

not really, no

old growth times had actually less juvis visible if i recall correctly

[verbal basin]

just checked at map, they are far

for a dibble at least

[limber hull]

because diet mattered less, growth was faster, and some animals grew on to full on one bar of food

[opaque inlet]

I don't feel that juvi visibility has changed between spiro and the current grow times in gateway

[radiant nest]

I almost always go to them when at that mz without issue

[limber hull]

and they're going to add a mechanic that's going to really make growing people want to get out there and play the game, ESPECIALLY apexes

[opaque inlet]

Okay true, but diet affecting growth more is a different can of worms

[verbal basin]

nest would rot while i was going to water, i would have to regen all my stam and everything bc we cant know where is deino

[radiant nest]

Oh also there’s a fully safe drinking spot at water access, forgot about that one

[verbal basin]

far too

[radiant nest]

Right around there is a shallow area

[verbal basin]

we should be able to know if there is any croc and be able to drink everyhere

run to safe spots would only be needed if there is a croc at the closer one

you can tell if any dino is aproaching hearing footsteps
and you can even hear a 8ton one coming from water bc he dont even disturb water surface

[radiant nest]

I don’t think you should just be able to tell if a water source had a croc in it without seeing the croc, that would kinda just negate the whole playable

[verbal basin]

uhh nop

if they added a disturbance at the surface of the water when croc comes

[radiant nest]

Cause deino is entirely specialized into one thing, ambushing from water

[verbal basin]

you would need to see it and run
if ur distracted or a slow stego you would just die

[radiant nest]

A little of that just a few moments before could be cool

[verbal basin]

yeah, you be capable of running

struggling to escape would be fun too

[radiant nest]

I just don’t want it to look goofy, cause realistically you don’t have to be too far under the water to not affect the surface

[verbal basin]

preys escape croc's mouth at real life

[verbal basin]

i dont want it to be overpowered

[radiant nest]

Some things ingame can already, like teno if it’s not in super deep water

[verbal basin]

if the croc stay still he have more chances of getting a pray

[verbal basin]

hope they add it for dibble too, its the n3 one of the mouth

[radiant nest]

But I’m hoping that lunge interaction is made a little more interactive, similar to how bucking will be touched up

[verbal basin]

yeah

[radiant nest]

But in general, I still think most things a deino successfully lunges should basically just die

Cause that’s its whole thing

[verbal basin]

so if you like, just runned a cera, started drinking without water and a deino grabs u, you dont escape bc u have no stam

but if ur fine, full hp and full stam u struggle for freedom

[verbal basin]

but only for big dinos, i dont think a dilo, omni or a carno could do much

[radiant nest]

Yeah true

[verbal basin]

deino just inhales dilo

[radiant nest]

I had an idea for deino lunge revisions a bit before lemme see if I can find it

[verbal basin]

want that ingame too? the struggle thing

[radiant nest]

#general-feedback message

[verbal basin]

looks cool but

realistically deino can only do that underwater

[radiant nest]

The oxygen changes might not be great, but the lunge charges combines with potentially a decrease in lunge damage/oxygen drain could be a good balance

[verbal basin]

im gonna wait until i get out of cooldown to add an struggle suggestion, this invencible deino is rlly annoying me

[latent olive]

@hidden plover hate to tell you this, my man, but uh

hell naw

theres already a friendly fire damage decrease i believe

but removing outright any damage will just lead to insane abuse

[cyan glacier]

Not at all, it will allow you to actually be able to protect your friends instead of accidentally killing them in the process.

[latent olive]

i sure do love dealing with 6 diablos huddling inside of eachother completely immune to eachother's attacks and destroying anything that comes close

or tenonto

or cerato

or stego

zero damage to others = zero risk for others = just corner something and spam attacks

[cyan glacier]

maybe dont fight 6 dinos on your own then...

[latent olive]

great logic

[cyan glacier]

problem solved

[limber hull]

sounds like it'll just be a way to remove a great deal of risk from hunting/fighting

[cyan glacier]

you shouldnt have to be worried about attacking your own teammate

[hidden plover]

It is just a suggestion y'all need to chill a little rather then be insulting

[limber hull]

things like spacing, communication and environmental use will be gone for the sake of just throwing attacks in the direction of the enemy

[latent olive]

where is the insultings

[limber hull]

it just removes things like tactical combat

[cyan glacier]

i just think trying to help your friend and killing him in the process is stupid

[limber hull]

its both realistic and more engaging to have carnivores cause chaos in the herd to take advantage of friendly fire or poor spacing

[limber hull]

it can suck, but that's why you have to work together beyond simply just charging into your buddy

[cyan glacier]

so when my friend has been pinned by 3 omnis, how am i supposed to help him?

[limber hull]

its also realistic for carnivores to end up hurting each other in a feeding frenzy to kill one thing

[latent olive]

stand on the edge of him and try to hit their hitboxes without standing ontop of your friend

its hard, but its doable

[limber hull]

depends on what creature you are. generally, omnis will die before the majority of anything else will

[cyan glacier]

oh yes i forgot when a lions attacking hyenas they just stand on the side lines and try to bite the lion without accidentally biting their friend

[latent olive]

i mean, sorta yeag

otherwise they risk shredding their friend when attempting to claw the hyenas

[cyan glacier]

no....

[latent olive]

but thats not how real life works so

[urban flax]

I find it weird when people give "what happens in nature" comparisons in favor of disabling damage to group members

"In nature lions don't kill each other during a hunt"
Yeah because they take care
If a lion bites another lion, even if it's their friend, I'm pretty sure the fangs won't go through it without causing any harm

[limber hull]

lmao true

[tight iron]

@blazing thicket if we're speaking about "realistically, this wouldn't be the case", well, realistically, the carno would be screaming and howling in pain, unable to do absolutely anything while the raptors break its back and insert the claws so deep they cause multiple fatal wounds in less than a minute

however since realism doesn't equal balance, just run away

if you fight a big group of raptors as a carno and you die to blood loss, not surprising

(when they add the different pounce thing you won't be able to deal damage and bleed, it'll be one of the two only, so you kinda will get what you're asking for)

[limber hull]

realistically, the carno would be able to fall on its side and crush the raptors. this can go both ways

also, frankly, carno just needs better bleed defence. as a small game hunter, the fact that it has a uniquely fast bleed modifier on it and nothing else makes it prey to that which it intends to hunt

this isn't even mentioning the fact that carno is getting cerato-sized

[tight iron]

also that

and the bleed makes it prey to big groups of what it is intended to hunt

[limber hull]

i'd argue the new rework should absolutely grant carno bleed res. its one of the animals that most commonly hunts bleeder-type animals (galli, herrera, dilo and omni are all incredible bleeders, and all carno's preferred hunting range)

[tight iron]

but if it's gonna lose 500kg and the bloodpool that comes with it, yeah give it better bleed resistance

[limber hull]

also with a much smaller bloodpool and healthpool (on account of the reduced weight), the bleed weakness really doesn't need to exist

but yea, carno is a uniquely bad experience right now. ideally, a lot will be changed to prevent it from being raptor fodder (cough cough, grapple)

[tight iron]

aint raptor fodder yet

good carnos will always massacre entire populations

[limber hull]

depends on how dumb the raptors are

[tight iron]

average raptor

somewhat new to the game, knows a decent amount of things, can put up a nice fight

[limber hull]

i've seen an entire pack of raptors go down because dumb, dumb and dumber, along with all their dumblets decided to chase a carno on a bridge

a very long, very straight path with no cover. against a carno.

guess what happened

[tight iron]

💀

im already hearing the carno ram sound in my head

but tbf, besides moments like that (💀), there should be safety in numbers for raptors yknow

[limber hull]

new carno should be good for actually brawling raptors in plains now, since its charge is no longer a colossal investment of stam, and extremely easy to bait and punish

[tight iron]

really adds to its playstyle

[tight iron]

the second i get my hands into it im spamming the ram

im just gonna spam it

[limber hull]

depends on how its reworked

[tight iron]

if it consumes the same as running im literally gonna keep throwing raptors everywhere

[limber hull]

i'm hoping its more of a tool over a flat direct necessity

like bite and charge should both have relevance in the kit

[tight iron]

still gonna have 175 bite force so

[limber hull]

well, we don't actually know that. it might

honestly, nerfed charge damage + actually having knockdowns and stuns/stamina plus bite for heavy burst sounds really good

knock em down, finish them off

[urban flax]

omni downsize when

[tight iron]

well unless dondi isn't done with the rework then we kinda know all the changes

[tight iron]

why

[limber hull]

we know the speed isn't properly scaled

[tight iron]

just why

[urban flax]

So that it makes sense

[tight iron]

yes

[limber hull]

i think omni downsize is warrented. thing is made out of tungsten

[tight iron]

nothing in this game makes any sense

[limber hull]

also...

grappling lol

[urban flax]

But they should

I like it when games make sense

[tight iron]

not the game then

[tight iron]

that doesnt say anything really

imma drop an absolute bomb right here, being grappled is not as difficult to avoid as many ppl make it look like for most playables

just dodge the pounce like everyone did when raptors had the stun

[limber hull]

idk how to uh say this

but most animals that are within grapple range generally are slower than raptor, and thus can't really dodge it

[tight iron]

you can dodge it and it's not complicated

however hear me out

2 raptors insta pin a cera, cera 40.2 km/h, raptor 46.8 km/h

[urban flax]

I'm not even saying this for a balance reason
Omni's weight should be reduced because there is no way this thing weighs 450 kg
And if something as important as weight can't be guessed at a glance by looking at an animal, there is a big issue

[tight iron]

might be as agile as you want but bro

[urban flax]

I also think beipi is too heavy, but I'll have to see it next to a human to be sure

[tight iron]

you cant guess anything's weight in this game

you see a dibble and you wouldnt go "3 tons"

you see a deino and you wouldn't go "8 tons"

max id give a deino is 4-5 tons

[urban flax]

You can with most creatures

[tight iron]

nah

[urban flax]

Stego is and looks 6 tons
Deino is bigger and, since it's a croc, much denser
Therefore it makes sense for it to be 8 tons

[tight iron]

it does make sense yknow

but you wouldnt guess it at first glance

you cant guess practically any weight at first glance

[urban flax]

Getting a rough estimate is good
But omni weighs almost twice as much as it looks

[tight iron]

a dilo doesnt look like it weighs 700kg

i wouldnt say a raptor looks like it weighs 250kg or smth

first glance im giving it 350-400kg

[urban flax]

I'd say about 300 kg

So it's still overweight

[tight iron]

there is no such thing as overweight in this game

if so reduce teno to 1 ton dibble to 1.5 and so on

[urban flax]

Dibble and teno look their weight

Dibble may be a bit too heavy

[latent olive]

500 kg cerato

[tight iron]

teno does not look 1.6 tons

max im giving it at first glance is 1.2

[urban flax]

But honestly all of this wouldn't be an issue if weight wasn't tied to health

[tight iron]

dibble looks about 2 tons i'd say

anyways

i gotta go do a few things, ill go now, have a nice one

[cosmic storm]

#general-feedback message I can’t press X on this? There’s no X? I think this would be good on unofficial servers maybe but on official, not so much, more entertaining to have an enemy accidentally stub it’s own toe. And it’s more realistic, which is, I believe, what this game is aiming for.
Not disagreeing the FF is bad, it’s just not in style with the game to disable it.

#general-feedback message some features are worth complaining about before they’re implemented because how bad they would effect the game, such as the suggested camera changes a few months back, which would do one of the biggest taboos in all of gaming; removing the ability to see.
It would cause so many issues, and as someone who has witnessed what it’s like to have such a camera issue thanks to game glitches, I know it’s so terrible and frustrating to have a camera like that due to many reasons not the least of which is motion sickness.
Additionally it’s not more realistic due to us lacking the sensory of animals, consider how animals eyes are on the sides of their head or their hearing and small are enhanced, these features give them the equivalent of that kind of 3rd person, and additionally we can’t feel the pain of our dinosaurs so we can’t react to being bitten from behind if we can’t tell we’re being attacked, especially if say, we have a faulty sound system. I think it would be very unrealistic to not be able to tell you’re being stabbed.
Ultimately speaking, there’s no world in which those camera features are good, so obviously it’s worth complaining about now before someone messes stuff up, because we care about a product we paid for and don’t like to feel like our bought product was ruined by incompetence and lack of understanding, which is also a reason why I suggested that the Devs play their own game instead of just making it, because then they might be able to make changes that are actually good for the game instead of… bad camera fixes…

[cosmic storm]

I’d even suggest they compare their own game to other games by playing other games, but ofc they probably won’t play a competitor’s game even if it would help them understand how to make their own game more distinct and fun in a way that removes competition by either differentiating the experience or doing better then their opponents.

[cyan flame]

Aren't you making a whole lot of assumptions on how those camera changes were going to be? We never got to really see anything aside from a mockup of an idea, and barely even that

Also the devs do play their own game, and while they could play the other games too, I'm not sure there's much to gain from there, since the games are all different and trying for different styles and gameplay

[cosmic storm]

I am not making assumptions, as a cough cough dev used very generously myself, I can replicate ideas and test them.
But moreso, I can also make educated predictions as both a dev and player.

[cyan flame]

Okay, and how do you know exactly how it was going to be? Do you know the exact angles, degrees, and everything that was planned for the camera to test it?

You're making assumptions here, you really are

[limber hull]

dondi literally said, in the stream "not finished. not coming to the game. proof of concept"

it was indicative of nothing

[cosmic storm]

They had it on stream, it was nightmarish and their argument was subpar at best, don’t try to defend the garbage already seen.

[cyan flame]

Except we didn't get to actually see how it would be, it wasn't implemented, it wasn't something done

@limber hullDo we know if they entirely gave up on changing the camera or if they might still change things around?

Also funny thing is, playing in first person (the camera change idea wasn't first person, but once upon a time you could), is kind of interesting. So the whole "it'd be garbage" is a little... well, it depends on who you ask honestly

[cosmic storm]

Are we just being antithetical for the sake of being antithetical or did the video showing how you won’t be able to see your stego’s tail not be enough evidence?

[limber hull]

as a game dev myself, i think the implications of never exploring an idea people don't like on first glance is immediately setting yourself up for failure

by your metric, i can also make educated predictions. and i think that it had merit conceptually, and people lost their mind over nothing

[cyan flame]

No, I watched it too, but it didn't seem that bad to me, so if you want to make that argument, well, it can go both ways

And we don't know how much/little we would end up getting to see, since it wasn't a done concept

Which was my point, we couldn't really tell, because we only had a mockup, not tested, not adjusted, not tried out

So mostly theory, with no practice to see how it actually would go and feel

[cosmic storm]

Ok, fine, but I will expect an apology when I’m right.

[limber hull]

LMAO

[cyan flame]

Assuming that they do implement the very first mockup (if they havent decided to not do it at all that is), and it doesnt get changed, adjusted, and so on and it really turns out to be unplayable. If so, yes, I'll apologize at that time.

In fairness, there are absolutely things where you can judge and go "this wont work out" but normally you also in those cases have knowledge of everything else around it to make that judgement

Stats are a better example, because that can be calculated a lot easier

[cosmic storm]

The knowledge I do have is Don’s reasoning in the stream was rather… “Fix a door by destroying the entire wall” to quote someone else
And well… that’s now how you fix a wall
To quote Don’s reasoning “The current camera says ‘I want to look at my dino because there’s nothing else to do in the game’”

[cyan flame]

I don't recall anything about that, so can't say if that's true or not

[cosmic storm]

As mentioned in the stream

[limber hull]

well this is a fine lot of paraphrasing very little info lol

[cosmic storm]

There’s other reasons but I can’t quote an entire stream.

Go watch it, he has a lot of questionable opinions on the current camera system when you really think about it.

[limber hull]

i watched it. i thought he had reasonable ideas that couldn't be expressed well with the prototype

[cyan flame]

Maybe he does, to be fair I disagree with a fair few sentiments myself, but that doesn't mean things will be bad, rather than just not enjoyable to me

But that's maybe why I disagree with you, I make a distinction between "I won't like this" and outright "this is bad", because I don't think the camera changes for example would be outright bad. But they might very well be something I personally wouldn't like (I play stego, so it might be very rough for me if I can't see much after all)

[cosmic storm]

I think you’re not skeptical enough.
I think you missed the part about ambushes which, from experience, work fine, in his words not being “possible”, despite both ambushing and being ambushed several times as proof to the contrary of his opinion.
The only thing I do agree with is definitely the part about looking up putting your camera in the ground so you can’t see anything.

[unique mirage]

They already fixed the camera in the ground tho, which I like and hope they keep it now as is

[limber hull]

I have things I'm skeptical about. I still believe every single attempt at dino AI will never work out and overall will hurt the game more than help it. Zero streams, implementations or concepts have changed my mind on the matter.

I think acro's niche in its concept art is hot dogwater and needs an entire rework before it sees the light of day.

[cyan flame]

To be fair, a lot of that came from him using an old camera that really was very wide

[cosmic storm]

The camera would effect the entire combat system negatively for all carnivores due to a harder to aim bite area, and would negatively impact dinosaurs like stegosaurus and tenontosaurus due to tail attacks, it would overall remove a big part of the whole dino customization and kinda make playing a dino feel less enjoyable.
At least how it was displayed.

[cyan flame]

And he did recognize and acknowledge that as well, that his camera in the dev mode was not the ingame camera we have

[cosmic storm]

AI dinosaurs are kinda necessary with the current map size, or otherwise they need to reduce the size of the map. But I already have ideas that would help the AI dinosaurs work without negatively impacting the player experience, if you are familiar with the code term for flocking objects, Boids, then you might have an idea of some of my ideas for how dinos could be done with AI without impacting player enjoyment.
As for Acro, yeah, needs to be redone.

I’m actually working currently on an AI system which should replicate animal behavior in a way that would be massively realistic without being too complex. For my own code project.

[limber hull]

I still dislike AI dinos. They obliterate immersion and act more like lunchboxes than meaningful additions to the game

I also don't buy the "map needs to feel more alive" excuse. If you want to make "realistic, player-like dinosaurs", that's going to take a lot of server-side calclations to get them to behave like that. At the point they want to reach, add more player slots. It's not like people aren't dying for new servers, especially with each update raising the game's popularity inch by inch.

We have a good foundation for AI with the current ambient AI (immediately distinguishable from players, actually can have unique behaviours, don't provide extreme amounts of food/nutrients for little work)

if i play tenonto, i want to meet other tenontos. AI doesn't help with that, it hurts that

[cosmic storm]

Ok, tell me, do you ever go places where players aren’t?

[limber hull]

yes

very frequently

i dislike hotspots and often avoid them

[cosmic storm]

But do you understand why hotspots exist?

Because an alive game is more fun than a dead one for the average player, overall your argument is basically opposite to the majority of players.

[limber hull]

yes. because players have the ability to spawn in the same spot over and over to immediately enter the bloodbrawl, so they do

hence why random spawns are coming in next patch

[limber hull]

then increase playercounts

[cosmic storm]

Yeah, or shrink the map, same difference.

[limber hull]

shrinking the map is not the same difference

[umbral skiff]

no, that's a bad idea

[cosmic storm]

V3 was perfect size, players will create a hotspot regardless.

[limber hull]

more players and more reasons to move would do wonders one couldn't even dream of

[cosmic storm]

Yeah, just like V3 was like

[limber hull]

V3 was one of the game's worst maps. Only beaten out by the abomination of Spiro. It was also basically as big as Gateway

V3 I'm convinced gaslit the community into liking it because goddamn it has some of the worst design of any map

[cosmic storm]

V3 had more notable locations where players could go as well on all sides of the map which kept players scattered about as you want. Your argument is literally arguing that you want reasons for players to be in more places but fixing the map to be more like the map that literally made that happen is bad.

[limber hull]

It wasn't V3 the map that made that happen

It was the spawning system

[cosmic storm]

Then clearly we need a better spawning system.

[umbral skiff]

yes

[limber hull]

Players didn't get to instantly drop themselves in the hotspot. They spawned randomly around the map and explored from there

That's why we're getting random spawns in HT

[cosmic storm]

Incase Port, Twins, that one lake on that mountain across from Twins, Swamp, and the various other hotspots aren’t good enough because hotspots are where the food is.

Again V3 had good hotspots all over the map before the AI as I remember it.

[limber hull]

There's also the migration changes, which are equally genius

[cosmic storm]

One issue I have with migrations is they don’t send you to recognizable locations. If the locations were more recognizable then carnivore players and herbivore players would have a higher rate of crossing paths due to players actively seeking out notable locations, just like they did on V3 with Docks and such.

Almost like notable landmarks are a good thing.

[limber hull]

Docks are also coming next patch, funnily enough

Also Gateway does notable landmarks better than any other Isle map, on account of the colossal megadomes

Great for orienting yourself

[cosmic storm]

Would be nice if those landmarks more commonly were where the food was

My argument stands for the reason I just said

Food and water should be where notable landmarks are to ensure players are able to find each other easier and to encourage a more engaging environment.

That would likely also fix the map size issue without reducing the map size.

[limber hull]

the game already sends you to areas with food and water with migrations though, and that dissuades the action of exploration and discovery, which I find vital for the game's enjoyability

[cosmic storm]

So it needs better migration, perhaps something a little more random would help better than predestined locations.

[limber hull]

I dislike subjecting great swaths of the map to "dead space"

It's what Spiro did, and it sucked. It's also why I like the Gateway migration reworks, as they enable more movement around the map

[umbral skiff]

Still a work in progress

[cosmic storm]

Issues from experience;

1. Map is too big for current migration distances
2. Not enough crossover of landmarks/food & water crossover locations
3. Not enough encouragement to stay away from hot spots
4. Terrible AI spawns

Fixes as suggested

1. Either shrink map or add more migration zones to ensure players finding food is more common so people don’t starve as often.
2. More landmarks or locations where players can crash into other players without needing to be at a hot spot, migration zones that cross paths more often for example
3. More food scattered further from player clusters would definitely help, forcing players into areas where food wanders might be a fix, alternatively, increased food timers on dinosaurs so they starve slower allowing them to be more explorative.
4. More AI spawns, probably when players are not over packing or clustered perhaps to discourage overpacking or mixpacking perhaps.

[cosmic storm]

Opinions on my/our suggestions?

[limber hull]

1. shrinking map does very little, but i can agree that there's some areas which are just bafflingly not included in any creature's MZ. There's a central plains area that would work wonders for critters like gallis and carnos, yet they go unused
2. they're adding more landmarks. next updates we get docks and a megaswamp, as well as improvements to reducing the amount of cliffs
3. new migrations include patrol migrations, which allow you to break free of regular migrations and go somewhere new, causing more movement around the map (herbivores move to get away from the scary carnivores, carnis disperse as there's more herbis in more places)
4. more AI spawns I don't think solves anything. Lots of AI just leads to legacy style "sit in bush, wait for AI, eat AI, sit in bush, repeat"

[cosmic storm]

The AI fix I suggested definitely might make that as a result but I think a few ideas might fix that;

1. Spawn Zones could encompass regions and when too much AI dies in one area it may stop spawning there for a good while forcing the movement across the map.
2. “Herds” of AI could be interesting as spawning in clusters on occasion might make for more interesting encounters, perhaps when they’re closer together and in larger numbers they might be more bold forcing players to wait for them to move further apart and pick off loners like real predators do.
3. Spawning less around larger numbers of players if they remain in an area too long and if too many are too close as to avoid overpacking and mixpacking as well as avoid, again, players remaining in one area.

[limber hull]

1. I like this idea. Having the ability to "overhunt" an area sounds fitting and punishes overreliance on AI and hotspotting.
2. I believe families of deer and boars can spawn, so that's already a thing
3. I just think AI needs to be worked on in how it spawns. I don't think spawning it near players is wise

[cosmic storm]

I think then we have reached an agreement on this

The Map and AI

[lapis swallow]

@crude mulch its because of ping, the raptor probably hit you on their end

[cosmic storm]

#general-feedback message I had this happen to me too

[crude mulch]

Oooh that would make sense. Thank you

[tight iron]

they didn't give up

[limber hull]

#general-feedback message
literally asking for a QoL change for stego is enough to get downvoted ALREADY lmaoo

[tight iron]

if im playing stego i might want my frickin attacks to WORK smh

[balmy socket]

When pressing ENTER the windowed mode is changed, is it possible to solve it without changing the key? I use ENTER to talk in the chat.

[tight iron]

spam the living hell out of alt tab

[full pumice]

Yoo is croc babys meant to feed themselfs? i cant drink water from land, i gotta be swinning, and eating food gives no food buffs? im at -75% and been sitting at around 1% grown for so damn long

[edgy flax]

im a stego main and i think it works fine

[limber hull]

how lol

[edgy flax]

whats the problem about it?

[limber hull]

the running power swing literally swings the opposite direction you're aiming it, the tail jab has the worst binding out of any attack in the game (spam RMB to do it), sometimes you'll be inexplicably be taken out of power stance, the cooldown just makes everything even MORE inconsistent

I can go on

[edgy flax]

i think it works fine because when you run to the right it hits to the left

[full pumice]

almost 1hr as baby only 2% this is so dumb!

[midnight heath]

I don't personally like how the powerswing swings when running. I feel like it should just go where I'm looking like genuinely every other attack in the game.

[midnight heath]

This is why

You need a perfect diet ideally to grow, without it you're growing a lot slower.

[limber hull]

you shouldn't have to rely on directional keys for it to work

[edgy flax]

then how should it work?

[limber hull]

the camera

like literally every other attack lol

[full pumice]

nothing give me food buff i said this before

[midnight heath]

Are you eating what's on your diet?

And not just corpses and small fish?

[full pumice]

everything is only meat ive got all types of dinos here to eat nothing gives buff

no food list as well

[midnight heath]

You're likely just not eating the right thing, your preferred food not showing up won't effect you not getting the nutrients.

Try killing those larger fish, it'll give you //.

Other deinos will give you S, their organs will give you various nutirents. You want one of each symbol all highlighted and active.

Lungs give hexagons, intestines give // and heart gives S. Stomach gives whatever the expired player ate last.

[cyan flame]

Which is contrary to all the other attacks, which is why it feels off and doesn't work as well

[full pumice]

im a baby from a nest n the nest is gone

@midnight heath i know all this nothing gives me buffs its broken af

there is two of us as baby crocs both the same problem, relogging doesn't do S#@!

[midnight heath]

Oh, you might be bugged. Hatchling deinos can't be fed like other playables as far as I'm aware.

If you and your sibling are both sharing the issue and you're more than aware of how the diet system works, I'd just assume bug.

[full pumice]

been saying this for an hour to my group... may as well just alt f4

its finally working at 3%

75mins to get to 3%

[half karma]

What food exactly are you eating

[full pumice]

everything look at the pic i had a full menu, idk why but no food buffs until after 3% something

finally see all the food now too

[midnight heath]

@boreal vessel #general-feedback message, an adolescent diablo won't be able to catch a carnotaurus, the counter would be just to evade it. If the carno isn't being aware of it's surroundings that's not on the diablo as a playable.

[boreal vessel]

That’s (1) scenario out of countless that are unpredictable in the game…. I get what you’re saying but you misunderstand my point.

The Carno is fine at 1800KG, the dibble was 1 example… what about tenos now lol. Carno had a hard enough time 1v1 teno, now that’s impossible.

I get it, probably paving the way for the real apex but I feel Carno was good

[limber hull]

it's not to pave a way for a real apex

carno is not stepping on any toes

it's to save carno from the horrible fate that has befallen it

being one of the worst designed dinos in the game

[boreal vessel]

Reduce its fall damage, but not it’s HP??

[limber hull]

what?

[boreal vessel]

Reduce its fall damage, but not it’s HP??

[limber hull]

i still have no idea what you're talking about

[boreal vessel]

Why decrease the carno HP from 1800 to 1300

It’s weaker now

[limber hull]

because its current weight betrayed the niche it was supposed to have

also, it really isn't weaker with the massive buffs charge got

[cyan flame]

Weaker vs some things, stronger vs others due to changes to the charge, hopefully

[boreal vessel]

I like the buff stamina… even with the huge drain as a food Carno player it didn’t affect me that bad

[limber hull]

carnotaurus is now INFINITELY better at hunting small game than it used to be, thanks to not losing all of its stam in one charge, and actually being able to use charge without a ridiculous cooldown

[boreal vessel]

Making the max weight to 1300KG significantly affects the day to day player

I get it

It shouldn’t have even taken that much stamina drain even at 1800 KG LOL

Just buff it… don’t nerf it… but I feel you man good talk now

[limber hull]

i mean

carnotaurus has been on a consistent decline since its nerf soon after gateway's launch. Besides a very few dedicated people, no one was playing it. Cerato was the better option by far.

The REASON carno got into that situation in the first place was because it was bulldozing cerato and teno

So they nerfed it to make it not bulldoze those two animals as much, because they were not supposed to be carno's preferred hunting marks

[boreal vessel]

I mean I get the cera and teno not being the preferred meal… but this doesn’t mean when the teno and cera come poke the bear that they don’t get smacked for it…

[limber hull]

And now it's just bad.

So, rather than keep a design that doesn't work, because if you fix the stamina, cooldown or runup, you immediately screw over cerato and teno all over again, they went for a complete rework approach

By lowering the weight, they finally made cerato scary to carno, which was the original objective with the launch of cerato

[boreal vessel]

Now the cera and teno can honestly easily out pace the carno… especially the teno

[limber hull]

Now they can do things like improve carno's stam, speed, agility and bleed resist

[boreal vessel]

I hope so

I feel like there’s more than 1 correct path to follow here… you know.

[limber hull]

Cerato has the same amount of stam and less speed, so it genuinely cannot outpace carno

Teno has a good trotrate but again, carno can just run away

[boreal vessel]

A cera with bacteria bite, can easily beat a carno now. Even with carno at1800 KG it was a good fight

And I’m a good carno player lol . It was tough at times.

I love the game regardless

[limber hull]

I'd argue 1300kg carno might not be out of that fight yet

Because now 1300kg carno has stam efficiency (and doesn't need a mile long runup to stun)

[boreal vessel]

It will take SKILL bro. 2 ceras!? You better run!

[limber hull]

I mean... good

You probably should run from 2 ceras LMAO

[boreal vessel]

Dude, I have probably 200+ hours on carno, I never had an issue with stam and I even killed 3 ceras at once

Now sometimes… u lose… but now, the ceras can easily beat a full grown carno, and same with An adolescent dibble…

[boreal vessel]

Sometimes you have to lol! That’s the difference between average and good carnos… they know when to fight or run… but damn, 1800KG felt good!

[boreal vessel]

I hear your points, I like your knowledge and input! Thank you sir

[limber hull]

idk, 1800kg is what made carno feel bad

because the devs just kept trying and trying to balance around the fact it was so heavy

so it got a bunch of gross nerfs that it didn't need

when a weight nerf woulda done wonders to actually make it more comfortable in its role, and more allowed to go do crazy stuff without ruining a bunch of other people

because the devs want cerato to be scary to carno, but unless carno is unnecessarily neutered, it will never be

[midnight heath]

Teno isn't small game, carno hunts small game.

Teno isn't as fast as carno, carno again would just evade it like it would the diablo.

I don't think carno getting a downsize is an issue.

It's large size often seemed to confuse players about it's niche, making it smaller I feel will ideally fix that issue. Players picking it because it's the "biggest land carnivore" and then attempting to hunt things that out-classed it.

It being smaller won't effect how it was previously hunting small game, if anything it'll be even better because it'll have better stamina; if said stamina stays like what we saw within Dondi's test. You'll just evade things you can't fight, as you should and hunt what you're fit to hunt.

But my overall point is that your example, be it just one of many situations isn't a playable issue at all. Carno will supposedly have it's speed adjusted and is far faster than the majority of the roster exlcuding galli. If you can't evade something because you weren't aware of your surroundings or didn't manage your stamina it's entirely on you as the player.

[cinder haven]

don't worry man I was thinking like you but the new carno will be a speed demon no sub will be able to stop in front of us

[cinder haven]

The bad news is that 1.300 kg carno teno seems to be more agile and his stun is much better and we are still biting 175 so I feel sorry for teno and sub diablo

[limber hull]

i mean...

carno damage may be nerfed, we dont know yet

[cinder haven]

yes the carno stun nerf may be good, maybe in terms of damage, but I believe the possibility of the carno teno stun because the current carno can stun 2.4 tons, so it will probably stun the teno, it will stun up to a maximum of 1.700 or 1.800, maybe

[hidden mist]

Won’t Carno be stunned if it tries to ram a Teno with new weight? I mean, the only possible way to kill a Teno last patch was the ram, because it basically 1. Took around 400 HP from a Teno if was landed on a head, 2. Phased you through the Teno so you could evade a kick. Any attempt to land a bite on the Teno usually resulted in you getting tail slammed or kicked.

[cinder haven]

it will be stunned because carno can stun animals heavier than him now and will probably be stunned in the new update

[tall hearth]

Small game hunter + game bigger than it = why would you even try do not do that

However, tenonto still has to grow. Only considering adult vs adult when presenting combat situations is quite nearsighted

[cinder haven]

Carno may be a small hunter but he can still kill big prey and also killing small dinos is boring

[midnight heath]

As it should, you shouldn't be hunting teno as a carno.

Small game hunts small game.

[hidden mist]

Ah, 2.4 tons… Well, idk, still devs will probably adjust or keep knockdown conditions (hopefully adjust), and now Carno will have not 2 chances of being stunned by a Teno (with a possibility of survival), but 1. Because now the full combo will put you to red ig.

[hidden mist]

I know, I was replying to other person before xd

[midnight heath]

Understood, understood. 🤝

Not sure why everyone insists on making everything being able to throw hands with everything

[tall hearth]

If you don't enjoy killing small prey then I suppose don't play reworked carno. The devs want it to be a small game hunter and not be going after big prey

[limber hull]

Fighting game

[cinder haven]

but the new carno is much more deadly than the old one, so it's right up my alley.

[midnight heath]

You're right, you're right. I forget about my PVP centric hero simulator.

[tall hearth]

Super Smash Bros Isletimate

[limber hull]

The Isle is literally a hero shooter and I will not hear otherwise

[midnight heath]

I do love that cera is going to be knocked down from just hunting whatever it wants

I want niches to actually be niches

[limber hull]

And actually built up in scaring away little bastards

[midnight heath]

People will complain about dying to cera because they were fighting over a body like people have before.

[limber hull]

So far, all of the balance patches I've seen coming this HT have been hits

NV, carno, cera, all pretty good at shuffling them back into their niche

[midnight heath]

As if it's whole stick isn't exactly doing that

I'm a little mixed on the NV, I know he said it's a tad darker on stream though.

[limber hull]

Carno and cera can finally get over their bizarre identity crises

[midnight heath]

I'm sure carni mains will riot, then allo will come out and they'll just move onto that.

[limber hull]

Hordetest for a reason. We'll see how it goes, but I imagine plains just won't be a nocturnal's super best friends

[cinder haven]

yes, but the bad news is that this update could be months away 😦

[limber hull]

Doubt

[midnight heath]

There's no ETAs

[limber hull]

Hordetest is right on the horizon tbh

[midnight heath]

We have a reply from Dondi who playfully put a gif stating "maybe a week" when someone previously brought it up, then we have the stream. I'm not holding my breath but I don't think it's months away.

[limber hull]

But regardless, I'm a big fan of the coming changes. Our midtier carnis actually seeing some level of niche comfort

After literally being in a weird confused state since launch LMAO

Genuinely, cera and carno have had these identity crises since the DAY they were added to EVRIMA, its BIZARRE

It took so long for them to settle on their intended niche

[cinder haven]

Yes, since they were added, Carno was killing ceras very easily, now they will regulate this a little bit.

Does anyone know how much Allosarus will weigh? (predicting)

[cyan flame]

I don't think we know anything, but I'd guess somewhere around 2.5T or so perhaps. Depends a whole lot on what they want allo to do, numbers and so on. And what they might simply think looks good, for all we know.

[rough scroll]

#general-feedback message I understand your frustration, but it's a natural thing in a survival game
I know it's bad for you to kill a puppy trying to protect it, but it's part of the game to think about new combat strategies and positioning of the puppies so as not to try to hurt them, not to demand something that should be changed in the game and wouldn't make any sense. Within the concept of the game, giraffes kill their babies because they are gigantic and clumsy, just like a stego kills its baby by accident trying to protect it, I know it's sad but I don't think it's something that needs to be changed.

[cinder haven]

k

[hidden mist]

Do we by the way have a carnivore on the development list which weight will be between 1.3 - 2.0 tons? Not the semiaquatics, but a land carnivore. Because it kinda feels to me that there will be a too large gap between weights of presented carnivores when Carno gets its downsize and then we have Rex and Allo. Same could be also applied to herbis though, as we know that Teno is getting a downsize too at some point

[cinder haven]

Baryonyx !!!!

I heard it would be 1,400 tons.

[hidden mist]

It’s semiaquatics

[cinder haven]

I thought of him

[coarse spruce]

I'm not a fan of the 'small tiers should be support playables' idea. Small tiers should be fun even if you play by yourself

And if it isn't fun then it won't be played. Hypsi will having spitting and treeclimbing, beipi has the most swimming mobility, dryo will have burrowing.
No idea what proto and homalocephale will do differently from dryo though

[frigid anchor]

how to fix preferred food bug?

[proven turret]

when is the allo or the t rex coming?

[icy lion]

Read rule 10 #rules-and-info

[north quiver]

relogging, though that has been successful for me only once lol

you still have your normal diets, it just doesn’t show up as diet on your scent or your tab menu

like a cera for example will always get 3 dot from eating another cera even if the bug is active

[radiant nest]

@vagrant cave already confirmed to be fixed for a future patch, luckily

[vagrant cave]

ah nice happy to hear

[vital valve]

anyone else getting this/ know a fix

[icy lion]

Disable DLSS

[vital valve]

i love you

[wooden agate]

@desert tendon #general-feedback message anything smaller than 1000kg is basically smaller game compared to carno

dilos, omnis, juvenile tenos, sub adult ceratos, gallis, dryos, etc not to mention the countless unadded things that are below 1000kg

carno is about to become a menace for anything smaller than it in an open field

[mild isle]

Yeah but there’s not a lot of open fields

[wooden agate]

and the ones that are there are insanely popular

south plains comes to mind

east plains was a hot spot, NE plains

west rail access is becoming a hot spot and its majority plains

[hardy vine]

alr understanable

[blazing grove]

#general-feedback message

[shrewd burrow]

How to u do that I wanna share my thing

[vale pawn]

Its copy message link

Should be at the bottom for the options in messages

[blazing grove]

What the guy above said

[shrewd burrow]

#general-feedback message

Good or bad

[vale pawn]

Herrera carry bigger things ✅

[limpid breach]

Simply yes

[gilded veldt]

What if there was a place like this in the isle

True horror for humans

[vivid mason]

can we have nightvision yet..

[desert arch]

The troodon changes are far more important

[vivid mason]

if we ever get any.. 😔

[desert arch]

Don has confirmed it iirc

Its coming along with the carno and cera bile changes

Watch it be a nerf

[gilded veldt]

Want some pink troodons and role play lawn flamingos

[mild isle]

#general-feedback message As an addition to my suggestion I think the implementation of secondary spawn points of popular locations could be good- EX: South Plains lagoon (name can be changed idk wtv) but essentially it would spawn you further down South Plains near the ocean water and in the plains back there. I believe it’s far enough from the main area of South plains to be it’s own point

[icy lion]

Random spawns are returning for officials

[wooden cipher]

instead of spawn timers game should only disable the spawn point that we spawned last time

[boreal briar]

Has anything been confirmed for a way to have people spawn together? I never experienced the previous random spawns

[icy lion]

Hasn't been mentioned

[boreal briar]

Ok, thanks!

@verbal basin my issue with that, is that I don't want to have to keep covering myself in mud over and over just so I don't die. Then everyone would look like the same muddy blobs as well, instead of being able to tell dinos apart by skin patterns

[lean fable]

x is night vis for evrima

[vivid mason]

oh wait this isnt isle discussion- and i know how to use nightvision, i meant the new nightvision

[lean fable]

my bad bro, sorry i didnt know there was a new night vision

[vivid mason]

ask in #isle-discussion about it for some pics

[verbal basin]

with more mud spots, with would not be so hard to find mud
and adult dinos can show the skin pattern if they want, its just a bit more risky

[ocean pond]

how can i be unstuck if the command didht help me?

[tight iron]

check #evrima(your region) and check thepins

[waxen moss]

@violet vessel i think it does work on mud

[shrewd burrow]

That was my idea btw

Imma go find some new mutation ideas maybe

What y'all think of a faking bone break mutation so u can bait carnos or ceras into a pack hunt as utah

[tight iron]

already exists

nobody knows how to get it tho 💀

or if it's even available

[shrewd burrow]

I have been scrolling through maybe u need to get bone broken a set amount of times ??

[shrewd burrow]

I'm 100% sure this is a good idea to bring back sandbox for pvp players and practice and make and in game tutorial for carnivore herbivore and omnivore then make descriptions of each dinos kit so it isn't so intimidating for newbies

Because I miss 1v1ing my friends in legacy

[slender wraith]

i love how my comment in general feedback about why they havent fixerd the food stuck in mouth bug hasnt been fixed got deleted lmao

[tardy pawn]

@heavy bloom Do you mean an evrima chat such as this one? #evrima-sa

Ah youre good!

[shrewd burrow]

I have had enough of ppl saying roster bloat doesn't exist , it very clearly does it is forcing the game into a never ending beta on top of the fact that different maps will come we will all be waiting for ever . I'm getting sick of it and I think pretty much everyone is to nobody wants these random ah dinos they want a playable game with less cheaters sure it's a great idea to add these dinos once the game is ok add the core creatures everyone wants or at least a few than take 3 or so years to completely flesh out the game the map and the performance while adding a few dinos like the upcoming ones those are pretty dam good , but what we don't need is a performance update on average every 2 years while getting 2 dinos per year and most of them we don't want with more than 50 dinos we will be waiting so long imma have a whole family before 90% of the roster is done and if they speed up they will have unfinished dinos . The isle has gotten itself in a pickle because roster bloat is real but there are ppl that like these lesser needed dinos and it will come off as a lie if they don't bring them all but at this rate it'll take 30 years.

Thanks for the vent

Just posting here because it's relevant

[gentle flint]

I don’t really think the dinosaurs are necessarily slowing things down, I can’t say for certain but I’m pretty sure the game isn’t even going to come out of beta until humans are more ready/implemented anyway? Which I feel like might be a different team than the people working on the dinosaurs, but that’s all just speculation

Plus the smaller creatures are paving way for bigger, more complicated and consequential dinosaurs. Better to start small than to introduce things that might be game breaking

[limber hull]

@unreal ridge ptera being more terrestrial kinda makes sense when you think about it

for the longest time, the main critique of the animal is that it's a spectator cam, since all it does is just fly around and do very little else. Now they're adding things like matchups with hypsi/herrera, a grounded fishing style, more abilities that actually allow it to defend itself, etc

that, and the introduction of thermal vents, will allow ptera to use flight more as a tool as a larger survival strategy, rather than exist only doing one thing (flying and watching other people play the game)

also, ptera will likely end up being more arboreal than terrestrial

[chilly ermine]

@mellow maple #general-feedback message

I'm not opposed to this, but only if it was more of a hop and not a jump. Enough to clear small rocks, not scale things like omnis

[mellow maple]

Similar to Tenonto I say. Just good for small things.

[chilly ermine]

Yes, but they shouldnt be able to go after dinos who can scale taller rocks

[cyan flame]

@candid socket Stego takes 2x on head already, deino bite/alt does 500. 6 clean hits + any other nibble would be a dead stego. Aside from that, if you're sitting there basking, and somehow are not paying attention to what is going on around you, I feel like that might be more of a lack of survival instincts there. Especially considering the incoming apexes are probably going to do all that but even better and more of it. Oh and neither deino nor stego are considered apexes, or at least not proper ones.

[lapis swallow]

@mellow maple even tho your Suggestion is funny to read, I still disagree

[lethal shadow]

would be nice to ot wait 1 hour every time the servers are flooded i think we are kinda a bigger communitie and should get 150 places on the servers

[tight iron]

servers would die

[lethal shadow]

sad

[tight iron]

unofficials go up to 180 players with like half the ping officials have

they're better in every single way

[mellow maple]

You are part of the tenontosaurus lobbyists and a supporters of Gravity™️, but for why do you disagree if I may ask.

[midnight heath]

I can't speak for them, but I think teno jumping is fine and while your feedback was funny, I also disagree.

Given how dilos venom works, being able to envenomate and climb onto a rock seems a bit unfair and gives the infected no chance to kill the main dilo if they too, cannot jump. You could just envenomate over and over and take refuge on a surface your prey cannot hope to scale.

[tall hearth]

Not only that, but the devs are working on aerial and aquatic hallucinations as well to prevent people from camping on high spots and in the water where hallucinations don't currently work. When these are implemented, I doubt you'd feel the need to be asking for a jump for dilo.

[tight iron]

@mellow maple dilo too quick

p much why

you'd be able to catch most raptors n stuff

tenos being able to jump doesn't hurt anyone, dilos being able to jump would be horrible

not only that but you'd be able to envenomate someone, get on a high place and spam the clones from there

[limber hull]

(the main reason why dilo hasn't gotten it)

[tight iron]

(yes)

[mellow maple]

I have a rebuttal/solution to these.

• A dilo who decides to sit on a rock and spam hallucinations should do little good. Make it radius based and the further a prey item goes, the weaker the hallucination venom becomes. The Dilo should be actively encouraged to apply its strength. If the hallucinations go so far as across the map for an infected target I find that absurd.
• Perhaps also a longer cooldown?
• My wish for these jumping privileges is only little things. The small gaps across certain areas or small rocks. Tenontosaurus cannot scale the same amount as that of the raptors or pachys. But he's still given the privileges of being able to camp rocks anyway with tail slams kicks that hurt just as much as any Dilo. Just keep the launch rate at a mostly horizontal angle. Much again, like our 1.6k tenonto

[mellow maple]

In the case I get stuck in little potholes. Ones that I could clearly step over or hop over. maybe a high step but it'd be far easier to give him a small hop

[tall hearth]

The easiest solution is just eliminating these potholes from the map

[mellow maple]

IF ONLY IT WERE SOOOO 😭

[tall hearth]

If and when you do find them, report them in #🐞-evrima-bug-reports-🐞

[mellow maple]

We did before and they never got around to it :((

[tight iron]

dilo venom is the opposite of encouraged to apply its strength

dilo venom encourages you to go in machine gun bite spam and run away while spamming the annoying asf clones

[mellow maple]

Then he needs a cooldown

[tight iron]

and teno, while it is true that it weighs 1.6 tons, is the opposite as dilo yknow

slow as heck, all the attacks cost stam besides bite, etc

so i can understand why they let tenos jump

dilo is faster than everything besides carnos and gallis, which is enough reason to not let it jump

[midnight heath]

• It's still very effective, the clones clones currently do just as much as the main dilo. Even if the dilo's venom is adjusted and distance based, that's still free DMG the dilo can spam without ever needing to engage.

• A cooldown will wouldn't null the risk-free DMG.

• Small gaps plague us all, and tenos very much so can scale rocks. It's also a very real chance it gets resized. Unlike dilo, teno cannot engage DMGs from a distance without engaging so it sitting on a rock with it's tail slams isn't quite the same.

[tight iron]

if it was slow then sure, but jump is given to those who might need it in order to escape bigger and stronger threats

[midnight heath]

Dilo is fast, I don't see why it would need a jump.

[tight iron]

... and are "squishy" to some degree

raptor and pachy are the prime example of being squishy

and they're also agile and more

[proud coral]

I'd be okay with a hop personally. Nothing amazing.
Then again I want hops for lots of smaller animals.

[midnight heath]

Plus with the upcoming NV and the AI adjustments for the clones, dilo will have a far better time I'd imagine.

[mellow maple]

Issac Newton wins again. >:[[[ I cannot believe this.

[tight iron]

since dilo is not agile and is fast as living hell, i don't believe it would need a jump, otherwise it would make pachy and raptor life a pain in the ass

[midnight heath]

A tiny hop wouldn't free you from a hole I don't think, you'd just slide back down.

That's my experience from most of these tiny holes but it can't happen that often. I've gotten stuck in 1 hole in maybe the past 7 months.

[barren crater]

Pachy stomps dilo?

[tight iron]

just imagine for a second being a raptor, seeing a dilo and knowing that you can't outrun it, you can't outstam it, you can try to dodge it but you are getting hit regardless, and that if you jump to a safe place he'll follow you

[mellow maple]

Just hit on the head tho. If you're on the rock playing defense, keep him off it

[tight iron]

imagine being a pachy and seeing 3 dilos jump on you

[tight iron]

you can't keep a machine gun biter that does more damage than you off your rock

[mellow maple]

I can flip that HOLD ON. Three pachys, one dilo

[proud coral]

No, silly.
It headbutts Dilo 🎙️

[tight iron]

taht would be a death sentence for the dilo

[barren crater]

What’s different than seeing 3 raptors show up as a pachy though. At a certain point you’re dead

[mellow maple]

Now we're if we're add numbers into this

[barren crater]

Good one

[tight iron]

3 raptors usually dont kill a pachy unless the pachy is clueless

or the raptors are vc coordinated sweaty raptor pack

[barren crater]

The point is that you were outnumbered.

[tight iron]

i mean ig but if something is wya stronger than you, it shouldn't be able to coutner all of your advantages

because then you become fodder

[barren crater]

It’s like having 3 carnos show up as a solo Teno in the field

Because your diets were out in the open

[tight iron]

yea i understand, im just saying that the ability to jump shouldn't be countered like that yknow

[mellow maple]

I'll concede on this. He doesn't need one to be successful. He already is good. My main problem on a sole personal note is that Tenonto at over a ton and who he himself is also not very agile, can also jump.

[tight iron]

as i said, a dilo outstams and outruns a pachy/raptor, why should it be able to also get his ass up to them and machine gun bite till they're dead

[barren crater]

I think dilo having a jump is fine IF there are places where only raptors can jump up on

And pachy

[mellow maple]

If Tenonto didn't have one, I wouldn't be here LOL

[tight iron]

i understand your point, however teno is very agile

[mellow maple]

WHAT

[tight iron]

for its size, it's pretty damn agile

mfer is like a boxer

[mellow maple]

we're going to race

[tight iron]

also it's slow as absolute hell so

[tight iron]

oh nono with agile i dont mean speed i mean turn radius and more

cause teno runs at 40.3 km/h 😭

[mellow maple]

Wait but but- turning doesn't mean jumping. You need speed to get off the ground. how do planes do it then? 😭

I hate gravity!

[tight iron]

we aitn planes tho

we can use the force of our legs to separate ourselves from the ground

planes don't have that so they need to go super damn quickly to take off

[mellow maple]

Oh right they take a bit, they need a runway

[tight iron]

yus

however we dont cause leg

[urban flax]

Planes also have yknow
wings
Helps a lot with getting off the ground

[midnight heath]

I still don't know how this is relevant to "dilo can sit on a rock and summon hallucinations"

[tight iron]

smth that i definteely wouldnt mind for everything is having a small hop

[mellow maple]

YES

Equality for all moderately sized theropods

[urban flax]

Brachi with a hop

[tight iron]

a very small hop to jump above the super small things that dont make sense

[tight iron]

nevermind 😭

[mellow maple]

Everyone should be able to ultilize spacebar

[tight iron]

to a certain degree, probably

[midnight heath]

The holes I've seen, you're not going to jump high enough with a little hop. If a very tiny hop were enough to get you out, so would sprinting most likely.

[tight iron]

i know it is on the works tho

[midnight heath]

You'll just slide down the geometry

[mellow maple]

For big theopods like Tyrannosaurus. Space should make him look up. Think of Primal Carnage

[tight iron]

we saw a small step animation for ceras

[tight iron]

probably just a step

not an actual hop yknow

[midnight heath]

A step would be fine

[mellow maple]

yeaaahhh

[tight iron]

but yeah i dont think anyone would mind step/hop for everything

and then actual jump for things that would def need it

pachies, raptors, gallis, dryos, etc

i know that cera is getting a step, i just don't know if anything else is getting it

[mellow maple]

I'd still like a jump tho. My opinion has not been swayed, but only the developers can do that change if they so wish. 👁️ But as it currently stands, my campaign is losing.

Good talk though!

[tight iron]

pleasure 🫡

[unreal ridge]

no it does not make any more sense, instead of highlighting features that people want to make it a better flyer, they have intentionally hindered its playstyle and playerbase to a point where playing pteranodon, a creature people have waited years to even experience flight since quetzal, are being shunned in favor of making an already weak creature even more weak.

Instead of highlighting things pteranodon can feasibly do, hunt juveniles, snatch hatchlings, dive into water, and hunt aerial targets they have decided to make pteranodon do things that go against its physical limitations and also put it in even more danger.

If we really wanted a good pteranodon the first thing i would do is to give it much more flight stamina and a latching mechanic that actually gives back stamina so it isnt entirely useless. Second allow it to grab small and I mean exceptionally small prey with its feet either to lift something like a hatchling into the air to kill it, or to do a rudimentary 'pounce' that modern raptors/birds of prey do in order to disable prey.

thirdly, allowing pteranodon to be what it is, a coastal fishing pterosaur and actually dive to hunt fish is the last thing that would make pteranodon interesting

instead of forcing it to interact with creatures on the ground in arbitrary ways like fishing off the river bank, it should be able to do what a pteranodon is designed to do best

giving creatures fun and interesting ways to interact are what makes interaction happen

[limber hull]

and you assume terrestrial ptera can't have that?

[unreal ridge]

a terrestrial pteranodon is a dead pteranodon and you know that

herrerasaurus can do everything people want from pteranodon and better except flight

[limber hull]

given the fact that i know nothing about the rework besides some random words and animations, i really don't

[unreal ridge]

which is the only thing ptera has

pteranodon gets killed by a majority of the playable roster in a single bite, it is slower than them on the ground and it takes too long for it to take off before it would be killed

[limber hull]

again, all we know about the rework is some statements and animations lmao

it's a rework for a reason

to assume that it's just "current ptera but worse" is ridiculous

[unreal ridge]

you are arguing false semantics, let the only flying creature we have be a flying creature

[limber hull]

it can still fly though

at literally zero point has the animal ever been stated to have an inability to fly

it flies. it is a flying creature

they are literally adding thermal vents to allow it to fly more

[unreal ridge]

but it cant do anything in flight even now, making it assume a ground based playstyle limits what it should be doing

pteranodon's flight isnt good anymore, all its useful for is flying across the map. if you want to linger and fly around one area you have to sit for ages to do so

[limber hull]

how? again, it isn't doing anything in the air atm

it's just kinda up there and observing. that's it

[unreal ridge]

thats the point i am trying to make

if we make it interesting and have airborne abilities, it will be able to do more in the air besides observe

[limber hull]

it's a ptera. it can only do things within logical reason

[mossy hollow]

I'd rather be able to glide for longer periods than be vulnerable on the ground... in a creature that cant even defend itself.

[unreal ridge]

logical reason does not include a ground based playstyle for a coastal animal

[limber hull]

giving it a more solidified playstyle on solid surfaces actually allows the animal to interact with the ecosystem more and integrates flight as a tool rather than a crutch

[limber hull]

it's not even a pure terrestrial

all that was said is that it's "more terrestrial"

which, by all metrics, means very little, as current ptera spends very little to no time on the ground

[unreal ridge]

but thats simply a wrong way of thinking about it, pteranodons flight is not a crutch, it is the main addition to a creature that should be its highlighted feature

[limber hull]

it still is

[unreal ridge]

thats like if we argued deino should spend more time on land by giving it a basking mechanic

[limber hull]

literally what other creature can fly

you're acting as if they're ripping away the ability to fly

that isn't what's happening

flight remains the central component of ptera's kit

[unreal ridge]

they are ripping away all the players who somehow enjoy current pteranodon

[limber hull]

are they?

based on literally what evidence of how the rework will actually work is this true?

[unreal ridge]

how often do you see pteranodons now in game

[limber hull]

not often. hence why i'd like this rework

[unreal ridge]

what do you think is going to happen after they make an already dead creature do something that people do not want it to do

its going to be the next dryo

[limber hull]

a more in-depth and solidified niche for the animal that combines arborealism/terrestrial gameplay and flight sounds fun

[unreal ridge]

at least dryo's mechanic is encouraged and wanted

[limber hull]

again, you're acting as if it's not being able to fly

and based on what?

[mossy hollow]

youd want ptera on the ground more often though which in my opinion would keep people away from playing it.

[limber hull]

a statement and nothing more

[unreal ridge]

what is your evidence based on then?

[lilac bolt]

its at the point now where it is severely harder to fly that's the main issue

[unreal ridge]

exactly, we just want the flying creature to be able to fly freely

[mossy hollow]

I agree... even going up a small hill is hard.

[limber hull]

I think the new animations are neat and could add more value for the creature. I also believe that elements like thermal vents will add more depth to flight and make the overall ptera gameplay more dynamic

[unreal ridge]

but that doesnt add any depth to flight what so ever

all it does is allow ptera to glide easier

[limber hull]

i'm not basing jackall on evidence. evidence means nothing when talking about a hypothetical rework

[unreal ridge]

so why do you bring up me not having evidence on a hypothetical rework then?

[limber hull]

we know nothing, so to say it's bad is ridiculous

[lilac bolt]

i wish instead of sitting and trying to catch a fish you would have to dive for fish would make more sense for what the animal is

[unreal ridge]

saying its bad equates to saying its not what the playerbase wants

saying no to an early concept that many players are against to is the only way to get their attention to what we do want

back lash is feed back too

[lilac bolt]

but its not 100% that that feature is even gonna go through we don't know yet we'll have to see

[limber hull]

the playerbase doesn't play ptera. the playerbase used old, very stamina efficient ptera as a mixpack scout/spectator cam

so the last thing to try is this. i fail to see the harm, especially when there's absolutely no logic in assuming that flight will be an afterthought in the kit of an animal defined by flight

[mossy hollow]

All 3 would be cool... and could all have different uses. Diving for fish could be used on the coast, gliding over rivers for fish would be used in rivers, and the new black heron style animation could be useful in ponds away from deinos.

[unreal ridge]

i just find it crazy how herrera is better at everything ptera does, a better scout, spectator cam, hunter, fisher, climber, etc and it is consistently buffed
and maybe thats why people like herrera so much... because its playstyle is very wide and player friendly instead of restrictive

[limber hull]

we know ptera is getting new attacks, abilities and interactions to support a playstyle that isn't purely "stay out of reach 99% of the time"

[unreal ridge]

and that is good and what we want

[limber hull]

and when presented with an arboreal/terrestrial/fisher for ptera with unique environmental elements to interact with, we all hate it?

hell, i'm underselling the fact that it STILL FLIES

the flight ain't going bye bye

[unreal ridge]

terrestrial is not what pteranodon should be, arboreal, a fisher, a hatchling hunter, etc are all things that should be improved upon instead of focusing on niche environmental mechanics

[limber hull]

it isn't terrestrial

[unreal ridge]

that we already have other mechanics that do the same thing better

[limber hull]

the entire statement was that it is "more terrestrial"

which is an exceptionally vague statement to not be taken at face value lmao

[lilac bolt]

of course it still flies but its like with bepi where its struggling to do things it was once really good at

[unreal ridge]

who is going to use the river bank fishing method as opposed to the skim fishing, it is a useless mechanic that takes time away from other creatures but also doesnt add any depth to the creature its trying to benefit

[sage plover]

exactly, it will likely remain 80-90% aerial and be able to land to actually have to interactions with other playable

[unreal ridge]

it doesnt make it bad persay its just not what we want and doesnt add depth to a creature that needs it

[limber hull]

exactly lol

they aren't literally clipping ptera's wings

[limber hull]

again, you don't even know what the rework DOES for ptera lmao

we know more about the carno rework than ptera rework

[unreal ridge]

and also carno shouldnt be shrunk down, if we wanted a smaller more agile carno we have rugops for that

[limber hull]

i disagree. i think, again, reworks can present new ideas that can address longstanding issues within an animal

and i think that's why we're getting so many as of late

[lilac bolt]

carno is fine but idk i'd have to see more of ptera

[limber hull]

ptera/carno/cera have all fundamentally failed at their key roles

[cyan flame]

I mean, it should. Giving deino a basking mechanic would add to it and make it more interesting to be fair. Aside from that, I'm not sure how making ptera more relevant on the ground (like the new fishing style) is bad, it can still fly as much as ever most likely. And thermals are, or used to be, a planned thing that would help with gliding, and I don't think it's ever been said it won't have them because it gets more terrestial abilities.

[limber hull]

still planned

[unreal ridge]

I disagree with that sentiment, I think carno has issues now that should be reversed instead of doubling down

[limber hull]

they're reversing many of carno's issues lmao

in fact most of the rework is just reversing carno's issues

[unreal ridge]

i wasnt enlightened could you tell me which?

[limber hull]

charge's cooldown and stamina cost being disgusting

[lilac bolt]

it is and will always be a small game hunter they are just trying to lean into what carno is

[unreal ridge]

thats exactly what I hoped for

[limber hull]

now charge doesn't destroy you

[unreal ridge]

will it still take the same amount of time to "charge up" to knock over prey?

[limber hull]

no clue

[lilac bolt]

the only actual nerf is just the size and everything that comes with it

[limber hull]

yup.

[lilac bolt]

i would think so though

[limber hull]

and even then, carno is just fast so like it can still outrun anything it doesn't like

[lilac bolt]

oops

im trying to say it would make more sense for the charge time to be reduced but i misread that lol

[sage plover]

The main reason there down sizing carno(in my opinion) is because of the fact that at 1.8 tons when they buffed an ability to be good enough to hunt small game, it could just be turned around and used to delete things like cera and teno. Carno was to big at 1.8 tons to give small game hunting abilities without it being op, so they make it 1.3 tons and now they can buff all of its abilities and such without it being broken

[lilac bolt]

yup

[icy lion]

Smaller size also means it takes less food to get full, making it easier to live off its intended prey

[sage plover]

this as well, carno will likely be able to easily hunt omnis and dilos without much challenge, and be able to survive off of them

[proud coral]

Smaller size may also result in better agility and a reduced growth time perhaps.

[arctic imp]

Did the default server queue issue get solved yet?

Once it does I will definitely be changing my review on steam to a positive review, it's disheartening to see one major issue be so widely accepted causing the community to become stagnant like this. So many great mechanics and visual art to this game, just for a few servers to ruin it.

[astral palm]

why is carno getting a rework

[lapis swallow]

because it doesnt currently work in the niche it is supposed to be

[wooden agate]

cause its bad

at its job

[limpid breach]

Still a very odd choice to make carno pathetic

[lapis swallow]

its not gonna be, its just finally fill its role as a small game hunter

[cyan flame]

Why would it be pathetic?

[wooden agate]

smaller = pathetic, obviously

[limpid breach]

They’re apparently gonna make it 1.3 tons and smaller in general, probably a lot weaker bite force aswell, I feel like they should just give carno slightly more agility and be able to fill up its hunger with smaller prey.

[wooden agate]

1.3 tons, new charge rework so its actually useful (seemingly no cooldown and very low stam cost), likey going to be as fast if not faster than current carno, may or may not get more agility

will inherently be able to live off smaller prey due to its smaller size

[cyan flame]

Yes, it's getting downsized, but I doubt that's the only change. No reason to think it'll end up terrible from what I can tell.

[limpid breach]

Didn’t know that it was gonna be faster ngl, I just thought it was gonna be the same speed but weaker and thought it was gonna get more easily killed by smaller things like Omnis, my bad

[cyan flame]

Grapple might be an issue, well more so, but that's an omni issue, not really carnos fault

[limpid breach]

Fair enough

[chilly ermine]

What issue are you referring too? The long que?

[arctic imp]

Yes

[graceful talon]

Im stuck in a crack on NA 5 east, as a croc. If i submit a bug report, will I get un stuck? and my dino saved?

[wintry whale]

@peak vortex /unstuck to get unstuck, please use https://discord.com/channels/401464048610312193/783214088456896513 to report bugs like that, not https://discord.com/channels/401464048610312193/401481371249541120

[full pewter]

I wanna hear reasons supporting carnos weight nerf, I’m on the side of keeping it 1800kg, if any nerf maybe down to 1700-1600kg. I think 1300kg is way overkill. But with no ill intention, what are supporters thoughts?

[night osprey]

Agreed

Carno needs to be 2000kg

And Diablo is 2500

[full pewter]

1800kg is just as it needs to be, Diablo should be 1500-2000kg imo, but that’s a separate issue

[lucid mauve]

Well its crap now, so guessing it cant get any worste. If its good vs small tiers in open im fine

Only prob is that small tiers dont normally come as one, so what happends after it kills something ? It needs to run for its life without any food

[full pewter]

I’d argue making it lighter makes it worse against small tiers, mostly cause it now becomes more prone to getting pinned by Omnis

Imo Omnis should fear the heck outa carnos

[lucid mauve]

Yepp totally agree, so im not sure how 1,3 gonna help

Still surprise they cant balance it at 1800, but hey they cant even balance apexes to fit into the game lol

[full pewter]

In general I think anything smaller than carno should at least be killable, but once we’re talking about tenos, kentros, and magys, carnos should probably form teams

It’s looking like anything larger than carno is basically invincible against it

[full pewter]

Darn right lol

[lucid mauve]

Yea but i mean, carno is supose to be guy you fear as small tier. 3 omnis should deffiently fear a carno in the open

[full pewter]

I once again just think carno in update 5 was about as perfect as carno got, slower acceleration but slightly better turn radius than now

[lucid mauve]

Yea, agree. But in the open, carno should be very good. Ofcourse the split second it goes into dense/jungle area. It can be the hunted one : P

[lucid mauve]

Yea, carno is a joke. I sometimes get one to try kill me just for fun

[full pewter]

That is very true, but then again anything close to its size ideally has counters to it, especially its charge. Even conceptually. Tenos tail slam beats its charge, but so could kentros power swing stance, magys shoulder check, or dibbles spar/block (even a small dibble)

[lucid mauve]

Yea, teno should be a really hard fight for carno. Dibble should easy 1v1 a carno lol. Kentro im not even sure how big it is : P

Only tried it in pot

Kentro should be very good at defending im guessing ?

[full pewter]

The best sources I see put it around 1200-1400, maybe larger? Idk. I’m fine with it below 1500kg

[full pewter]

Basically porcupine, stegosaurs imo should have stun resistance in their power swing stance like diablos with their block

[lucid mauve]

Yea, mini stego : P

Im still suprise dibble can stun stego

[full pewter]

As far as what Kentro should be doing against carno, all I ask is, should a carno charge into a Kentro from behind, where the spines are??

[lucid mauve]

Hope not, i hope those spines are dangerous : P

[full pewter]

Partly the reason for stun resistance, but also trexes head slam. If that could stun Stego, stegos screwed

[full pewter]

Exactly👆

[lucid mauve]

I remember dibble in legacy, it was incredible good vs small tiers and small mid tiers like cera etc. Kentro should be that, but not good vs larger stuff.

Then you need to hide/run etc

Dont think a rex cares about the spines, it will just flip it over or something

Strange they spent so much time on rex and trike, and just come to the conclusion. They are to powerfull lol

meaning no spino, giga to im guessing

[full pewter]

As far as these guys go, generally I think they should be capable of fighting one another, but any larger and you should best run

[full pewter]

Rex is 6 times larger, Kentro is a mere chew toy

[full pewter]

From what I’m hearing there is some push to move them to officials, so they should at least be balanced around the current roster

[lucid mauve]

Yea i really hope we get to play them, i dont mind waiting. But its really sad if we can never play them on offical.

But if you remove the apexes, you just have other "apexes"

[full pewter]

By push I mean push within the dev team, we have a legit shot to get them on officials. Them being unofficial only was never clear anyway

[lucid mauve]

If you took away apexes in legacy, you would see sucho roaming all over the place

[full pewter]

Apexes are also too easy to play in legacy, if the devs play their cards right, apexes will require skill

[lucid mauve]

Ahh good to hear, i feel you need them for a healthy ecosystem.

[lucid mauve]

Yea, but i mean. They where easy kill with dilo and a pack of allos. Giga was the only guy i feared lol

[full pewter]

I’ve played legacy dilo plenty, it’s not that straight forward, still doable for the skilled tho

[lucid mauve]

I dont think apexes should be "skilled" in terms on fighting. They are to big to complicate, they wont have speed or turn etc

[mental mountain]

Fuzzy is about to boil water in the feedback lmao

[full pewter]

What should take skill is catching smaller Dino’s, and combat with other apexes

[mental mountain]

Nevermind he cooked

[lucid mauve]

Yes, it should be hard survival and alot of patient and finding a good place to ambush. But if you bite or use ability etc. Fight prob over, unless its vs anohter apex

[full pewter]

He cooked hard, very nice

[full pewter]

Apexes ideally would just control each other, like Deinos and cannibals

[empty epoch]

@tender latch honestly
having mutations that aren't just math nerd text
is something very engaging

[tender latch]

🎉

[empty epoch]

it's better than having boring information like on a historic map game

[lucid mauve]

Yea but im hoping they do something like legacy, rex was king. But it is harder vs small tiers , like dilos omnis etc

[brave merlin]

Yessss those icons look so much better to my addled brain

[lucid mauve]

Apexes needs to have diffrent playstyles, pros and cons etc

[full pewter]

A good allo pack imo should be able to take one down

[lucid mauve]

yea ofcourse

[full pewter]

Every Dino needs that

It’s why I think Maia shouldnt just be a better Teno

[lucid mauve]

But as kissen said, if a apex has a good diet stay away lol

[full pewter]

Yes

[lucid mauve]

Im loving herrera now, was kinda cool : )

[vale pawn]

@tender latch i thought the same idea but didnt have the stuff to make the icons so good on u for making some

[full pewter]

I wanna hear reasons supporting carnos weight nerf, I’m on the side of keeping it 1800kg, if any nerf maybe down to 1700-1600kg. I think 1300kg is way overkill. But with no ill intention, what are supporters thoughts? A change my mind kinda situation

Reposting this here👆

[latent olive]

makes it easier for carnotaurus to sustain itself on smaller creatures, as well as provides a great way to dissuade players from attacking things larger than it

thats what i think, anyway

[limber hull]

also its weight has been a cause for contention since the animal released

[cyan flame]

@gentle spire In what way?

[gentle spire]

any way

it is garbage actually

any other carnivore are stronger than omni at this point

and the gap is big

i dont know how they can balance that

but its useless right now

[waxen moss]

@gustavo Omni is an pack hunter, you cant fight animals bigger than you if you'er alone

[urban flax]

Isn't omni like
The strongest carnivore, bar deino, right now ?

[limber hull]

i dont do this often, but for you, i make an exception

absolute skill issue

literally plays one of the strongest carnis in the game and somehow thinks its dogwater

[cyan flame]

Really? What's so bad? You have pounce, pounce to pin/grapple for power. You're fast, agile, can survive quite well. Where's the issue compared to others?