general-feedback-discussion

[urban flax]

If we wanted absolute realism, then we wouldn't be able to play dinos

[tight iron]

that is nonsense ngl

dinos have nothing to do with realism

however let's not argue a stupid, irrelevant here thing here 👍

[wooden agate]

absolute realism would be awful

[tight iron]

he's talking about absolute, complete realism, so, talking about absolute, complete realism, he aint wrong

however we dont behave like animals so yeah we ball

[urban flax]

Good thing this game isn't striving for absolute realism, because that would be boring as hell

[tight iron]

i agree

[urban flax]

So dinos wouldn't be playable

[tight iron]

it would be so damn boring

[tight iron]

sire im not here to argue about something that doesnt make sense

[tight iron]

i simply stated this

i dont wanna be dragged into a debate

[urban flax]

It's not that deep

People don't act like animals
Therefore if we wanted complete realism dinos wouldn't be playable

[lapis swallow]

@broken thorn 2 calls you

[valid delta]

Animals make non-threatening calls to each other too. And do it towards humans. Example, we all know the difference between a cats meow and hiss. Or a dog's whines with a happy tail vs deep growls. It's not even unrealistic.

[hidden mist]

Exactly x)

[broken thorn]

do you not think it will ruin all your built up immersion

when you just know the dinosaur just IS FRIENDLY NOW

[lapis swallow]

no

[broken thorn]

I hate it with passion

[lapis swallow]

you could mute your audio if that helps

[broken thorn]

what kind of a dumb statement that is

ok goodbye.

[valid delta]

How do you know the 2 calls are honest? Have you not had someone 2 call you and then kill you before?? You're lucky.

[broken thorn]

that's not the issue, the issue is that this just doesnt happen with animals.

animals in the wild don't make cute friend noises to you if they don't wanna eat you

that is some cute Snow White talking with forest animals crap

[valid delta]

That's not always true though. You're taking a much too rigid view on what animals are and are not capable of. There also is no way to avoid that happening in game. So even if you were fully correct, there is no way to fully stop it.

[broken thorn]

you're 100% right. But the human like communication kinda pulls you out of the moment now doesnt it

[valid delta]

Not really. It's still just a game. And while I do enjoy a healthy dose of realism between animals, I don't view the game as ruined when something less than realistic happens when there is no other option.

[broken thorn]

like I know we won't live to see much change, let alone humans, but as a thought I found it helpful. Why are they building a very gritty, realistic atmospheric dark game, when the creatures that don't try to eat you are 80% of the time from Disney's dinosaur except there is a merc now

[broken thorn]

agree

[valid delta]

And there is never any promise of the animals being anything but human controlled. So I don't feel like anything is ruined when a human playable acts like it is human controlled. If that bothered me, I would play Ark instead.

[boreal briar]

@somber fjord You can press H to rest and it does exactly that :^)

[urban flax]

I think the statement that "dinos being able to 2-call makes this game a disney movie" is a bit overstretched

[broken thorn]

you didn't read anything I said

[urban flax]

I read all of it
And I think you're exaggerating a lot with your points

[broken thorn]

they should have a friendly call. only tied to creating a group.

[urban flax]

How is that any more realistic than what we have now ?

[broken thorn]

like I won't be playing this game in 10 years when this situation can occur in the terrain. But as a thought it seems right. For a game that aims for immersion. In POT or something that really doesn't matter much

[somber fjord]

i meant in greater amounts than resting

[torpid talon]

Problem is it limits friendly call too much, effectively removing its purposes. Animals -will- show submissive behavior if it’s needed for survival… would a predator make a noise at prey? No, but that’s niche enough that you could always join a realism server

[indigo gulch]

This. ''People don't act like animals'' is exactly why the game will never be 100% realistic. It literally can't be. Real animals wouldn't camp rocks or terrain against an omni, real animals wouldn't do something as body denying by swimming into a river waiting for something bigger to get them and herbivores wouldn't actively run towards a predator group. If ''this animal friendly called me'' ruins the immersion, you were never immersed to begin with. At the end of the day, you're not hunting animals. You're hunting people.

[restive fjord]

Idk, man. Sometimes I do have a feeling there is a chimp playing pachy on the other side..

[indigo gulch]

HA

can't deny that 😛

[hollow stump]

I wish titanoboa was in the isle would be so good especially in the lakes with the crocs

[boreal briar]

I can't deny that it'd be cool, but it would take so much development for something that can't be used for anything else. All the other dinos are like building blocks, but nothing else has the same kind of movement and stuff that a snake would require.

[boreal briar]

@leaden juniper how much did you walk around while sniffing? Until you encounter the food, it's got a small scent radius for herbs.

[karmic sequoia]

Fair argument, but I counter with “basically nobody will ever play it anyway when stuff like trike and shant exist” and, to be fair, I doubt magy would be as good at moving through the sanctuary cycad thickets as babies, so it’d wouldn’t even be all that much of a threat to babies

Personally, I agree that magy probably doesn’t NEED poison, but I think having at least one adult dino that can exploit the safe spots would give it a unique niche (and it’d match the thick-skined aesthedesign of the creature)

Also, sorry about the prolonged response delay - was on a flight and lost track of time

Thx for responding earlier too :)

[leaden juniper]

I know, and I walked over the entire place. Nothing.

[urban flax]

I don't see why magy gets invalidated by trike and shant as they don't occupy the same niche and gameplay at all.
If your problem is that nobody will play magy, how does locking it to a single tiny area of the island where it can't navigate properly solves it ? Who would play that ?

[karmic sequoia]

Nah, I’m saying it won’t pose a massive threat to juvies given the fact that there will be more popular herbie playables and will be easy enough for babies to avoid - along with the fact that it would to too large to easily navigate through sanctuary plants

Trike and shant were just random examples - cherry, anky, or any larger sauropod would work just as well for my point

People will undoubtedly still play magy, but I feel like giving it a unique ecosystem niche that also coincidentally helps protect it from predators (at least when it isn’t venturing out for food and water) will give it more interesting gameplay than making it poisonous (at least for me)

I want to like magy, but I don’t like the idea of playables depending on passive mechanics (being poisonous) when the game is supposed to emphasize survival through player decisions… and the sanctuaries are pretty underutilized

[urban flax]

Magy's poison doesn't have to be passive
I personnaly like the idea of something that relies on something else than running fast or killing their predators first to avoid being preyed upon

The idea of magy being "impossible to eat" makes it unique and interesting, and is also a survival strategy known in nature

"Getting into sanctuaries" isn't unique as every playable goes there at some point

[wheat spoke]

[azure ruin]

@unreal delta it's even sadder that the community has taken it into their own hands to deal with the hacker issue. Here, they post videos of hackers with their Steam IDs so we can mass report them. It's a start. https://youtu.be/M5_cm2xe3QM?si=D0LjzSxJcYopo3_6

You can send in your clips too so they can post it as well.

[indigo gulch]

wish them best of luck. The stuff I have seen is...disturbing outside of speed hacks an such

[slender epoch]

@gloomy flame #general-feedback message me and my omni pack killed two dibbles at swamp last night lol. they both fataled and we laughed our ass off. we were hunting them for like 30 mins before that

made us laugh cause normally dibbles are what cause the fatals for us.

[bleak bison]

@forest quartz that should be standard for ptera

You Shouldn’t need a mutation to make a mechanic useful

[tight iron]

^^

[barren zephyr]

My second most wanted creature in the isle unfortunately I don't think it will happen or if so not for a very long time it would be a pain developing that 😔

[inner orbit]

didn't think my suggestion would be controversial, I've been stalked by one calling birds for thirty minutes at a time couple of times now and thought it was just a universal pain lol
i know that it would not deter discord callouts, but tabbing out to give out coords to your buddys is hard when you are flying, and voice callouts by map knowledge ("they are on X place") can still give victims a chance to escape by breaking line of sight and running. It feels more hopeless when there's a seagull giving your position away for the entire server to no real risk of itself by just screaming

[limber hull]

It hurts the seagull experience that ptera has and frankly I would rather have to rest more than scream less

The entire downside for screaming is countered by being a discord sweat, it just hurts ptera more for playing ptera

[inner orbit]

i'd rather it have better... well everything move based right now don't get me wrong. Ever since gateway it has been the most unfun animal to play, all due to it's stamina (and aided by a one hour growth time and (as of hordetest) difficulty to find any AI food.
But that would be a entire other suggestion that many people have made. Ptera suffered so many hits to it's viability as something fun to play and still the one thing it was supposed to be deterred from doing, is still done perfectly fine
makes me sad 😔
Should have started my suggestion with "buff it first" of course, but the sentiment is there. It is still doing the trolly things that were a problem for this animal to begin with while also being pretty much umplayable (fun-wise).

[inner orbit]

I know. People who know the game very well can pinpoint your location by landmarks and general movement of where you "need" to go. But this would reduce the more "casual" trolling, which is much more common than those sweats.
The thing to me is that spamming broadcast is not needed for the fun or enjoyment of this animal imo, for my own playtime I'd use it less. Opinion though ofc
Or maybe the use of stam/water is only when airborne. I wrote that at first but I could see pteras just landing on rocks/latching on trees and spamming there instead. Sigh.

[limber hull]

IDK I kinda love how much of their 1 call adds to their horrible seagull pest vibe, personally

[inner orbit]

Aha, I get that. That's troodon for me!

[limber hull]

Troodon sounds like a song, and they do have an amazing broadcast, but only ptera has the level of “obnoxious scavenger bird” of the seagull

[inner orbit]

It's a matter of opinion on this. For me it feels worse for Ptera because you can't shake them off if they decide to target you.*

*...run uphill. this will tank their stamina. Lmao

^ I did that to deal with the trolling. But it was still very screamy thirty minutes for me before I did that...

[karmic sequoia]

I think you are wrong - while all baby playables can temporarily inhabit sanctuaries, these locations don't actually impact gameplay all that much beyond being a place for baby herbivores to fill up their diet slots once before moving on - meanwhile, baby carnivores are usually better off scavenging hotspots then trying to hunt other fresh-spawns in sanctuaries - meaning that most players will have minimal interaction with sanctuaries unless they choose to lurk outside of them to kill babies (assuming there are any around) - sanctuaries are an underutilized resource

While not every player will find the idea of lurking in/around a "safe zone" interspersed with excursions out for food and water especially exciting, there will be some people who genuinely enjoy that playstyle.

It matches the more traditional survival genre experience and makes sense for a smaller, shy sauropod that can't outrun small pack hunters and will get bodied by larger carnivores

[limber hull]

Troodon can do it, and meshes far better with the environment than a ~1.5 ton clumsy sauropod

[karmic sequoia]

Then why not both?

[limber hull]

Why magy at all?

[karmic sequoia]

Why troodon?

[limber hull]

Magy literally does not fit, realistically, thematically or otherwise

[karmic sequoia]

Elaborate.

[limber hull]

Because it’s tiny, nimble and excellent at rapidly navigating the maze of cycads, as well as having a venom that can easily dispatch of any juvi rapidly

Magy is big, clumsy, has a long neck that it’ll never use because all of the food is on the floor as tiny, hard to see mushrooms that have zero way of realistically sustaining it. I doubt it’d even be able to jump or crouch, two things that make life in a sanctuary much easier

[karmic sequoia]

Magy is a small creature by the standards of the isle, its aesthetic design has thick skin to give it an excuse to negate bee stings, and making it so toxic that it's not worth killing for most playables feels like a cop-out since doing so would functionally limit interspecies interaction massively

[vale pawn]

Magy is NOT moving through a sanctuary

[karmic sequoia]

I never said anything about surviving on mushrooms or being nimble. I like the idea of it needing to leave for food and water - sanctuaries would just serve as temporary refuges from preadators actively pursuing it. I would still want sanctuaries to remain mostly unnavigable thickets, with a small clearing in the center (like the mud pool in the northeast jungle) or narrow paths crisscrossing through them which magy COULD navigate.

[limber hull]

By the standards of the sanctuary, it’s a behemoth

[karmic sequoia]

just a sec, lemme go check my Isle Size Chart* TM (maybe I'm vastly underestimating how big it is)

[limber hull]

You might also be underestimating how dense the sanctuaries are lol

It’s a trial for even an adult small tier to navigate.

[karmic sequoia]

1650 kg - so almost exactly teno sized

Large, but not too large if small, windy paths like the ones I described are added

Teno can navigate sanctuaries *not well, but it doesn't have to be amazing at it as long as it's good enough to avoid larger stuff like allo or carno long enough for the bees to pose a threat

Though, even if it could camp and avoid starving by grazing, a group of smart carnivores working together and waiting could force it out if it's dehydrated (say because a cera managed to make it vomit)

[urban flax]

I don't think such a thing would even be possible
How long do the bees take to kill something ?
How long would it take for an allo to kill a magy ?

[karmic sequoia]

Like 3 seconds if it can pin it

How poisonous would magy have to be to prevent griefers from murdering them on sight?

[urban flax]

I think your suggestion is actually the definition of unviable
It's an animal that
-Has to live in an environment it cannot fit in
-Cannot find food in its own environment
-Cannot survive out of its environment because it has 0 adaptations to do so

[karmic sequoia]

Ah yes, so making it toxic would be better?

I think a magy with similar mobility to teno could actually make this playstyle work.

[urban flax]

This poisonous
#general-feedback message

[karmic sequoia]

My last message got blocked so allow my to summarize my response

I like it.

I'd still enjoy seeing a herbivore that can make use of sanctuaries, but your suggestion is far more polished and generally interactive than any poison ideas I've heard before, so I'd be very happy to see it implemented as described there

Why didn't you open with that XD

[urban flax]

Because I forgot I had it for a while

[karmic sequoia]

Fair enough lol

I hope like hell someone important saw it and took notes

[vale pawn]

A herbivore that should make use of sanctuaries should be hypsi and the other small tiers

[karmic sequoia]

Was a delight to argue with you :)

[karmic sequoia]

... how about ava?

[urban flax]

So do I

[vale pawn]

Na

Ava doesnt need sanctuaries

It needs to be a noble warrior

[urban flax]

You know you're talking about a walking watermelon right ?

[karmic sequoia]

Ah, but what if it's too powerful to be affected by mere bees that could scare away a rex?

I kid but also

[vale pawn]

A watermelon that will fight until its water has run out

For Ava Valhala

[karmic sequoia]

Pocket-sized trike that can also... does ava have any confirmed abilities?

[vale pawn]

It steals burrows

And eats baby raptors

[urban flax]

Ava should be able to dig its own burrows honestly

[karmic sequoia]

Ah, found the concept art

Extremely cute but not much to see

Looks like they might have some sort of vision ability?

[vale pawn]

What dino are u talking about 💀

[karmic sequoia]

Ava

[bronze nymph]

Even If it couldnt get stung by the bees. Walking through the sanctury would be straight hell. And nobody wants to Play smth that needs to hide in sancturies to survive but cant really walk through them.

[karmic sequoia]

We're past that point

I already conceded - though I would do that - I've cut through sanctuaries with young stegos before, so it is possible

[limber hull]

magy poison being reverse septic bite is honestly a better mechanic than septic bite itself

[full cape]

How much longer till this update is realized actually?

[wintry whale]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1256377694380232714/1256377858293497877/rule10.gif

[full cape]

Upsie

[limber hull]

#general-feedback message

New day new suggestion to absolutely ruin stego's already fragile playability because some guy ran face first into one and died instantly

AND HE NERFED PACHY WHAT

One of the game's current worst dinosaurs flat none lol

Goddamn, double whammy

Imagine nerfing pachy's already pathetic speed to ensure ceras can just speedblitz it to death lol

[tight iron]

@barren zephyr pachies are forced to trade hits with things above dilo size btw

that way they shouldn't be able to kill things that big

nerfing them till they can't aggro anymore means they won't be able to defend themselves

i hate pachies with a passion but let's not do like ptera and make a playable almost useless

[limber hull]

ptera ain't as useless as what pachy is proposed to be here lol

hell, ptera rn is better than pachy rn

[tight iron]

also wdym with heavy nerf to grapple did they not change it or smth

haven't played ht in a long ass while but im pretty sure they changed it a bit

[cyan flame]

@tight iron"Less health", told you, didn't I? xD

[tight iron]

i don't recall...

were we talking at some point about what ppl would suggest for a stego nerf?

[cyan flame]

Kind of, you were talking to someone about nerfing omni weight for no reason and said "itd be like lowering stego to 4.5 t from 6" or so, to which I told you not to give people ideas, becuse someone would think it was a good idea. And well, here we are, kind of xD

[tight iron]

OH

tru

[limber hull]

its genuinely crazy to me tho that this dude nerfed two bad herbis to be worse, then slightly nerfed the most egrigious creature in hordetest atm (bar the obvious bugs)

[tight iron]

i cant blame him tho, stegos are power tanks that can 1 tap practically anything while requiring a lot of constant hits to kill

so i understand his view on it

about pachy tho... eh

[limber hull]

and if you can read them, they're easy pickings lol

[tight iron]

they've gotta be awful tho

only thing that can kill a good stego is 3 other stegos 🤷‍♂️

or a 20 raptor megapack

so i can understand where he's coming from

[limber hull]

not even lol, the only thing that seperates an "awful" stego from a "good" stego is how fast they move to a wall

because their standalone kit is ass without needing something to protect its many open flanks and weapoints

[tight iron]

not taking baits, etc, yknow

but yeah a good stego also immediately goes to a wall, i agree

[limber hull]

you have to take baits, stego's attacks are too slow not to

[tight iron]

yup

[limber hull]

hit too soon, miss

hit too late, miss

you have to gamble

[tight iron]

pretty much

[limber hull]

but stego op i swear

i swear the plains animal that requires walls to work is good i swear

[tight iron]

gotta say tho, it now has unlimited swings

[limber hull]

thank GOD for that lol

everything else had unlimited "stronger attack"

[tight iron]

as much as i dont like that, it's fair

[limber hull]

forcing stego to use its pitiful peck is just flat out cruelty

[tight iron]

death by nibbles

[limber hull]

no bleed, poor damage, literally attached to one of the slowest trots in the game, horrible turn radius

then again, we have new and epic "anemic stego" where it runs out of breath for defending itself for 1 minute

[indigo gulch]

Now that it’s stronger, we can nerf how good the wall camping tactic works right? Cuse it gets soooo boring when every fight becomes “camp a spot”

[tight iron]

make the wall fall on the person camping

[wooden agate]

@tacit vigil #general-feedback message you'll never guess why we havent gotten a HT patch in a week or two

((its because they updated the engine to fix the fatal errors, because the fatal errors were an engine issue rather than a dev/code issue. however, updating the engine takes a while and can break somethings that werent broken before, hence the long time))

[broken ether]

yea would just be cool if they said that instead of complete silence

[cyan flame]

Revert the nerfs it got, and sure,it might work without camping . It would be more fun if it wasnt neccessary to camp a spot but people might not like it if you can fight in the open and still win. Something about you having to have to use terrain to win being how it should be. Theres also potential other issues that requires things to work the way they do.

[wooden agate]

they literally have, thats how we know

[restive fjord]

wtf?

[broken ether]

oh ok thank u mb

[indigo gulch]

That's fair, but I wish it wasn't the only thing that happened all the time. For every dino in general, not just stegos

[cyan flame]

Oh I agree, Id much rather not need to camp a spot to stand a chance. But that requires a fair enough chance without said spot, which in turn requires proper counters that arent reliant upon the terrain. But its not a new issue, both omni, deino and even to some degrees troodon cause this issue because of how their abilities work. On top of that, pounce might need the dismount due to clipping, which would mean itd always be a thing, and would probably always be the best counter, or it would need some changes in abilities like an omni or troodon scrambling over the targets from one side to the other.

[desert arch]

Would be nice to at least see a band aid fix till that supposed bucking rework comes, every fight just being a camp fest, even when the prey would be more than capable of defending itself in the open is just sad :/

And if when the bucking rework does come, and the punishment for hitting terrain while pounced isnt changed I fear people would still camp since its just so much easier. Why actually try to fight your attackers when you can just back up in a corner and wait for them to starve?

[limber hull]

No, because stego is still bad without a wall. The devs literally undid every change that made it not reliant on it, so to the wall it goes and the wall it stays

They LITERALLY added an anti-wall camping mechanic with the kit rework on its new attacks, but since said attacks cost all of your stam, you’re better off sitting by a wall and spamming jab again

[indigo gulch]

sad but true

[tropic girder]

@tender latch
Dear fuzzy, as much as I agree with your suggestion, i sadly to have inform you that i strongly dislike it. I will reason it below:

1. I hate Ohio

2. You stink

3. Hi

[tender latch]

🎉

[unique mirage]

+1 for reduced growth times: 4 hours for an apex, 2 for a mid tier, 1 for small tier and half an hour for the really small stuff

there are literally story games that I can finish faster than I can grow some bigger dinos

[tight iron]

i agree

some growth times are crazy

[wooden agate]

i dont mind the growth times lol

[meager charm]

ptera growth time could be lowered slightly imo

[wooden agate]

@rain hemlock the whole point of cerato is that it should be annoying to fight

[rain hemlock]

No food and water and stam reduction is annoying enough imo

[restive fjord]

Why tho? Grow one and keep it on the server. Untouchable playable that can stay alive from one server wipe to another, lol

[rain hemlock]

Diets are just insulting

[wooden agate]

you can fix that by simply not engaging with it

hence the whole "corpse bully, f around find out, not worth it" dinosaur

losing food and water? not exactly awful. you can find both rather easily.

lose stamina? not a big issue either

[rain hemlock]

I dont like that solution

But alr ig

[wooden agate]

i mean... oh well? cerato as a whole needs to fufill its "i want this body, and if you try to think about taking it, i will ruin you"

now, cerato vomit CAN be changed to fit that more, instead of being used offensively

cerato vomit does actually fit that decently, but like i said its wayyy too effective for hunting

[rain hemlock]

Oh i thought it was solely for offense lol, thats why i say it shouldbt be there since it doesn't help the cerato

[wooden agate]

naur

its meant as a "i want this body. i am the corpse bully, just leave before you regret it"

and for that purpose? it works well

[unique mirage]

you see my suggestion a few days ago?

[wooden agate]

but it also works a bit toooooo well for hunting

[wooden agate]

link pls

[rain hemlock]

Fair enough

Literally anyone who hunts as cerato uses vomit to get extra butes

[unique mirage]

#general-feedback message

[restive fjord]

What do you understand under hunting tho?

[meager charm]

well it can be used on offense yeah, but what does a cera hunt apart from like, juvies?

[wooden agate]

dibbles

[meager charm]

deserved

[rain hemlock]

Teno dibble stego if its good enough

[meager charm]

teno's are faster tho at least no? can't speak much on dibbles tbf barely played the ht

[rain hemlock]

Teno is like 0.1 km faster when fg

[meager charm]

ah fair enough then

[rain hemlock]

I think pachys are also slow when fg

[meager charm]

pachys are like angry little punching bags

[rain hemlock]

Yeah pachys are 1km/h faster than cera

[wooden agate]

theyre faster than cera when fg but cera has fracture resist + with mutations, pachy just becomes pointless

[rain hemlock]

I swear i havent seen a single pachy in so lonng

[unique mirage]

ceras are literally the best pick if you want to solo hunt tenos or stegos

[rain hemlock]

Omni

[unique mirage]

not as a solo

[rain hemlock]

I've done it

Painfully

[unique mirage]

i mean yeah its possible but cera is just better solo xd

[rain hemlock]

Probably

I've done the same with cera but i hate playing it since i always get bullied by carnos

[unique mirage]

yeah carnos are the only real problem

[meager charm]

I swear solo carnos don't even exist, they always come in packs of 3 minimum

[rain hemlock]

I've always played carno sollitarilly since you can take out anything (except stego) solo and beung in a group just means less food for you. Unless you find a group of something, then its sometimes better to be in a group

[wooden agate]

im just waiting for carno to be smushed into its small game hunter niche

[tacit vigil]

I’ve heard before that they’d rather wait for the updated engine version rather than fixing the issue, 2 months ago. The reality is that the fatal error issue was non existent until the last 3 versions released on the evrima branch, so it’s not just about the current version of the engine, it’s that they don’t know what the problem is nor can they fix it, as they’ve told us already in the dev blog post in June.

It’s a bit annoying they’d rather let the player base play with such a big issue than to roll back a version and stay there for the next 2 months since they’re not going to push any updates until they are done with the HT

[wooden agate]

'fatal error' is a generic crash message and has been in the game since release.

the current issue they're facing is literally having to do with the engine. i dont know what else to tell you lol, they've updated the engine for this upcoming patch and have said error fixes are coming with it (directly referencing the 'fatal errors' we've been getting)

i cant explain it any better. you can believe what you want

[tacit vigil]

You might believe so and I don’t blame you for it, but the game only started to prompt fatal errors related to sound cues en masse as of the patch: #announcements message

Prior to that patch the fatal error was still isolated to random cases, for example I never got a fatal error until that specific patch which is when it started to affect most players

[indigo gulch]

#general-feedback message it’s not even that unrealistic, you can carry stuff that’s heavier than you in water

[wooden agate]

@wary flower and how would they do this

#general-feedback message

[sudden geode]

remove south from being a spawnable zone, move migrations/herbie food away from it

[wooden agate]

that would work

[barren zephyr]

or simply bring back random spawning

[wooden agate]

however, pointless

theyre removing spawn points and bringing back random spawns

[sudden geode]

wouldnt get rid of it, but would probably help it

[wooden agate]

its kind of scary how we all are sort of becoming the same person

[barren zephyr]

Mr photovictuses think alike

[urban flax]

You have become a hivemind

[queen swift]

I agree the Herra bleed is insane now. I got pounced one time and ran off just a few feet so they couldnt ponce me again and my bleed was at 25%... I was a 75% grown Teno. that is just a tish excessive. they almost dont have to work for a bleed like raptors do.

[north quiver]

@agile holly herreras won’t be completely safe in the trees if hypsi is allowed to spit herreras out of trees and cause them significantly increased fall damage (AKA they can’t fall as far without breaking a leg or taking damage) once they’re given climbing

[queen swift]

dude a hypsi knocking a herra out of a tree would be peak comedy

[wooden agate]

honestly, i dont mind herrera bleed. they only have 1 shot to get the kill, and then theyre extremely vunerable on the ground. id rather slow herrera down a bit on the ground instead of nerfing its bleed, the only thing that allows it to get kills that are larger than dilo

[north quiver]

10/10 lol

[wooden agate]

also... its not exactly tiny. its a lizard thats the weight of a piano falling on you at a significant velocity lol

with several knives attatched to it, aiming down at you

[queen swift]

anything has to happen tbh. once you get pounces and your brain registers what happened they are half way back up a tree

[wooden agate]

plus frankly, you should pay more attention to your enviorment lol

[cyan flame]

Herrera should be treated like tree deino, it pretty much works the same. One shot, more or less.

[wooden agate]

ive heard people say it shouldnt be able to one shot omnis 💀

[queen swift]

they are the weight of maybe a large dog at best. and i think you gotta remember a carno takes significantly more time to grow same with even a raptor. you shouldnt be able to essentially one shot something that takes more time to grow in the first place. its a video game that people sink time into. realisim has to stop somewhere.

[wooden agate]

they're 175kg...

they weigh more than the largest dog ever recorded

[queen swift]

a grate dane minimum is 218 kg...

i think you are mixing kg with lbs

[wooden agate]

objectively wrong

[lapis swallow]

respectfully, are you stupid? great danes are 80 kg max

[queen swift]

oh wait no I was mixing them mb

[wooden agate]

💀

[queen swift]

quite literally did my math backwards

[wooden agate]

thats where i drop out of this convo, g'day

[queen swift]

well you should have done that from the start, anyways like i was saying, if i spend 2 hours growing something, then something that takes 1 hour shouldnt 1 shot me. that logic is pretty sound i think

If my teno was in a forest i would have 100% been dead and the 3 hours i spent would have been gone just like that/ by something that takes 1 hr at most to grow.. if that stays the case why would anyone play anything but the herrera knowing that?

[wooden agate]

herrera does not take 1 hour to grow

it takes ATLEAST the same amount of time as omni

[tight iron]

it takes considerably less time

i dont remember if 1h 10m or 1h 20m

[wooden agate]

omni is like 1hr45 right?

[tight iron]

whereas raptor is 1h 42m

[queen swift]

Teno is like 3-4 hours last time i checked

[tight iron]

wasnt it 2h 20m

just a bit more than cera that is 2h 5m iirc

[queen swift]

maybe with the diet

[tight iron]

yeah with perfect diet ofc

if not raptor would be 3h 45m iirc

[queen swift]

i think so too

[wooden agate]

this is like fighting raptors in an open field as stego and being surprised you lost

[tight iron]

either way i agree with you, i dont think a herrera should 1 shot things with considerably longer growth time

specially with how easy it is to grow one

[wooden agate]

bleed is one of the only things that ensures herreras get kills. its an ambush hunter, it is doing exactly what its designed to do. dont like it? pay attention to your surroundings, learn the spots they cant get to, etc.

[queen swift]

the entire map is forest. theres not really a choice where you have to defend yourself. if you get pounced you cant exactly run away with heavy bleed on you

[tight iron]

imma be honest bro

most of the times you cant see herreras

[wooden agate]

i must be imagining the several large areas of plains

[wooden agate]

you can hear them jumping around lol

[tight iron]

no

[wooden agate]

yes

[tight iron]

nuh uh

[wooden agate]

they make loud ass noises when they latch

[tight iron]

only if you're super close which you wont be

no not anymore

[queen swift]

literally the changed that, its super quiet now

[tight iron]

they're super effective killers rn that can barely be seen

[queen swift]

which it should be

[tight iron]

my only issue with it is that it's stupidly easy to grow for what it delivers

[wooden agate]

so as i said, slow them down on the ground. make them incredibly awkward to use on the ground.

[tight iron]

is safe almost all the time, can 1 shot smth 3 times its size

[wooden agate]

nerfing one of their only advantages is not the way to go about it lol

[tight iron]

and doesnt have to do anything to actually get it

doesnt work for its kills like others do it's just aim jump

[wooden agate]

youre describing deino, save for the 3 times its size part

[tight iron]

i know i am

but deino isnt as easy to grow as herrera

and cant get you practically anywhere in the map

[wooden agate]

correct! its easier

[tight iron]

it is like 15 times more difficult

herrera is literally spawn get perfect diet get on a high ass tree become adult

[queen swift]

wither you dont play herrera at all or you only play herrera, ive played it and been a victem of it and can honestly say its the easiest dino in existence.

[tight iron]

there is no risk besides cannibal herreras and random ass pteras

ive also played it, it's easier than ptera to play

[queen swift]

petras arent even a threat

[wooden agate]

[tight iron]

and ptera is awfully easy to play

deino is way more difficult to play than herrera, specially to grow

deinos have other deinos, constant search for diet, etc

herreras are just spawn get diet immediately afk grow on the top of a tree become adult

[wooden agate]

❌

[tight iron]

(yes)

[queen swift]

like they should be able to kill things smaller or equal but not something 2-3 times its size. thats just plain not fair.

[cyan flame]

It could, depending on how the critter in question hunts. And due to it being an ambush hunter, it needs to be lethal. It'd have to be reworked to do differently. And herrera takes quite some time to grow too, last I checked.

[tight iron]

i mean, it is fair in my opinion

[wooden agate]

herrera is preforming exactly as it is supposed to

[tight iron]

but it's just dumb

[cyan flame]

One day, I hope I'll be able to actually fight them in the open and have a chance!

[wooden agate]

that would require bucking to not suck

[tight iron]

basically small deinos that can get you almost anywhere and take nothing to grow smh

[wooden agate]

but also, no

fighting a pack of omnis in the open should pretty much be a death sentence

[queen swift]

ppl are ignoring the fact that realism in a video game cant be 1:1... something has to give for fun gameplay. things in life are exactly that unfair. but this is a game where devs are trying to balance things so that every dino has a chance.

[wooden agate]

no one is asking for 1:1 realism

[cyan flame]

Could be partially fixed with more smalll critters to hunt, but people also find that boring, since everyone loves punching up. Imagine if omnis could only punch up to allo/alberto size, and troodon only up to teno/carno size. People would be so unhappy about it.

[wooden agate]

if that were the case, we'd be arguing to throw herrera on the ground and not let it climb trees lol

[tight iron]

eh

look in my opinion a herrera shouldnt 1 shot a raptor

[wooden agate]

we have officially lost the plot

[tight iron]

shouldnt bleed it out that quick either

[queen swift]

if you team up with friends to take down something bigger that would be awesome but 1v1 would be a bit of a stretch, 75% of the time the smaller should loose but there should be a realm of possibility that they win

[tight iron]

it should bleed a raptor out, yes, but man

[cyan flame]

What could be done instead is to rework herrera to be a kind of pursuit/persistence hunter, utillizing the trees to follow a target quickly and efficiently, and getting multiple drops. But that might also require a faster drop time for the herrera, way better mobility in the trees, and a better capacity on the ground for a finisher.

[tight iron]

would be cool

[cyan flame]

It was more so an example of limiting punching up, which would make people unhappy.

[queen swift]

oh I understand you now

[cyan flame]

Same applies to herrera, except more because it's way harder to work together

You could make it so it takes 2-3 drops to down a omni, but then you'd have to make the hits far more reliable

[tight iron]

thats what i would like

[cyan flame]

Otherwise the omni will take one hit, and be out of there

[tight iron]

not straight up 1 shot smth 3 times its size yknow

[queen swift]

I agree heavily

[cyan flame]

But as it currently stands, I can see why they let herrera punch up quite a bit on its own, since it's hunting technique is pretty much entirely ambush. Which means after the first hit, you're out of luck.

[wooden agate]

((which is why it has spectacular bleed))

[cyan flame]

Omnis and troodons and others can follow their target with little to no problem, and thus keep working together

But unless you coordinate so you drop right after each other, but without hitting each other, it's a lot harder for herrera to work in a group

It's doable, but not quite as easy as chaining pounces or just bites

[queen swift]

then they gotta give them more teamwork ability ( maybe making them not damage group members while pouncing????? idk) and reduce the 1 shot ability. 1 shotting in any game is fustrating and makes people feel like they cant do anything to prevent their death in instances where they feel like they should be able to defend themselves

[wooden agate]

1shotting is literally the basis of an ambush

[tight iron]

raptor pin:

[cyan flame]

I was personally hoping for a pursuit/persistence hunter, following things on the ground "predator" style, jumping from tree to tree and not giving them any time to stop to recover because if they stop for a moment too long, they get hit again. But herrera is unfortunately not all that good at fast and efficient traversal, though I sincerely hope it's better than before at least.

[tight iron]

yup, same

[wooden agate]

come to think of it i dont think ive ever actually died to a herrera as anything larger than omni

[cyan flame]

Hence why deino is not very liked. But I wouldn't be opposed to a change in how herrera works, but they seem to really want the death from above style so.

[wooden agate]

ive been pounced by them but you can run away and still live pretty easily when you get pounced

[cyan flame]

And omnis are also really good ambushers for given targets

[agile holly]

dude everyone else has made great points and makes an effort to compromise and understand the others point, youre just here to disagree... if you only want to disagree you cant have a conversation and you need to exit it bc its toxic

[wooden agate]

sorry you feel that way

anyway, back to what i was saying

the situation will be urgent, yes

but you can get out of the herrera's range and follow-up range pretty quickly as most things

herrera isnt great at traveling between trees as said above, and its ground stamina is... not good. its just not great at chasing things down

[cyan flame]

Which is why it would require a rework, but until then, I think we might be stuck with tree deino as it were

[wooden agate]

you'll absolutely be really low on bleed once you sit, but it is survivable

even more so with mutations

the bleed is intense but it requires it to be that way right now, and even then its not a complete death sentence

herrera does have 1 glarring issue in my eyes though, its ground speed. its the same speed as troodon at FG

[cyan flame]

Should it be faster or slower then?

[wooden agate]

thats... not great. it should feel awkward on the ground, almost like you're out of place.

slowing it down and pulling back its agility slightly would make a herrera think twice about attacking things on the ground

[wooden agate]

slower for sure

you can even look at herreras run animation and tell its very sped up

honestly i think the choice to make herrera that speedy was very last minute (and frankly a bad one)

also, if they happen to ever bring up the idea of flesh grazing and implement it, absolutely yes to everything thats been said in here lol

[cyan flame]

Is it better to run from A to B or to jump between trees?

[wooden agate]

it depends on how far the target runs (or how far you plan on traveling)

if the target runs a good distance? you're better off running usually, but you'll be out of stam likely by the time you get there (and stam impacts how far you can jump i believe, so depending on the situation, you might have to choose a tree really close to the target and they'll definitely hear you)

[cyan flame]

If it's just a travel, like following an MZ indicator?

[wooden agate]

but if the target is just dumb or had prior bleed damage they were healing? they likely didnt run far, probably into a bush a few meters away. better to leap in situations like that

[wooden agate]

running, but stay close to trees/cliffs for a good getaway

[cyan flame]

Hm, well I can see why it has some speed then

[wooden agate]

although i never really follow MZ's as herrera due to their ambush style. yes you have to be flexible, but you also gotta be patient. i have one spot that isnt in any MZ's but is always buzzing with people

[wooden agate]

id increase its trot a bit for sure if they end up nerfing the speed

[cyan flame]

If it was more efficient/better and faster to move and travel overall, as well as chase, by jumping/climbing trees and moving across the branches, I could agree with a slower speed and less agility on the ground, make it more like deino where being on land is not at all a good time generally.

[wooden agate]

not much though, just a decent travel trot

[queen swift]

im starting to see sam just dont like change period lol

[wooden agate]

im all for change when its actually warrented

[queen swift]

i doubt it.

[wooden agate]

continue to doubt then

[barren crater]

Is herrera really that big of a threat that it needs changes?

[queen swift]

kind of, not a big change by any means just the bleed is really strong

[wooden agate]

to things dilo sized and smaller? big threat, no need for change

to things carno sized and smaller? pretty big threat, easy to get away from and survive if you dont panic and get away efficently

[queen swift]

like get a herra friend to pounce you once then run a few eet away from the tree and watch your bleed

[barren crater]

Genuinely never died to it. I sort of just avoid them?

[wooden agate]

yeah, ive only died once or twice to them and their bleed. definitely been pounced but again, rather easy to survive if you can get away and sit decently fast

[barren crater]

Actually I did lose a pachy one time, but was in a fight vs a raptor pack so I couldn't really run. Knew it was there though

[queen swift]

thats if you see them first, if you dont and are a full grown raptor if you get pounced by a full grown one you will 100% die

[wooden agate]

they made the latch sound quiet but i always somehow hear the herrera's around me hopping

[wooden agate]

they 1 shot raptors without bleed

which... yeah

piano with knives falling on your head

[barren crater]

Pachy pretty much ignores the bleed as well from my experience. Pretty funny

[wooden agate]

pachy being something other than awful? shocking

[queen swift]

Im ngl Ive explained my thingking 3 times already to you and I dont think explaining a 4th will do us any good

[barren crater]

Was testing it and you pretty much have to die to raw damage or else you won't drop dead

[wooden agate]

because your explanation was not good enough to change my mind

[queen swift]

and yours isnt either, so lets stop replying to eachother shal we 🙂

[barren crater]

I just assume they're around and avoid chilling in obvious spots they'll be in.

Idk, never died to them doing that as raptor so eh

I have played herrera and the ones who do end up dead are the players who aren't really the best. Had a raptor pack chill in the same spot I kept dropping on

[wooden agate]

pretty much this lol

insane how people expect something 175kg to fall on them from 100 feet high and not do enough damage to kill you as omni

drop a bowling ball on an omnis head from that height and see what happens

[queen swift]

ive dropped on someone who was just strolling by in a non descript portion of the forest. completly merked him

[barren crater]

It seems largely an omni issue tbh? Everything else would end up dead either way or can tank a hit. You can also try getting the bleed res mutation if you're larger than a raptor and keep up a perfect diet. Also get the mutation where you don't bleed out while sitting

If Omni can tank a hit, then it's not really going to have to worry about herrera lol

Which we saw when herrera first released

[queen swift]

nah i got dropped on my a full grown one while i was a 75% teno and lost 75% of my blood, i only ran 2 feet away to get away from the tree they where in, it honestly feels like a recient change they made for herra pounce. release they never would 1 shot now they do

[tight iron]

small car ripping you open with 22cm long curved knives

[wooden agate]

what playable are we speaking of here

im american i dont speak cm

wait are you talking about omnis

are there small cars that are 1000lbs? wow

ive learned something today (NO, SMALL SMART CARS ARE AROUND 1500LBS IVE BEEN TRICKED)

#general-feedback message ehhh, i mean does it have to be tier 2 only? what if we made it an unlockable? smell max distance several times or somethin

just doesnt seem too powerful to warrent a tier 2 only

[barren crater]

There are mutations to counter bleeding out 🙏

[queen swift]

kinda a moot point to make those mutations an absolute necessity

that creates a meta

[barren crater]

Not really a necessity if most people aren't dying to it?

[queen swift]

the are?

[wooden agate]

https://tenor.com/view/victoria-neuman-sister-sage-nod-the-boys-the-boys-s4-gif-3639611799150508972

[queen swift]

I think imma just block this guy before i say something outta character that might get me put on a list somewhere

[wooden agate]

bird said what we were all thinking 🙏

[indigo gulch]

wait is this herra or omni bleed?

[wooden agate]

herrera

[indigo gulch]

people die to herra bleed? I just always die to the drop damage

[wooden agate]

https://tenor.com/view/apparently-kid-live-livetv-gif-25283994

[agile holly]

they have been saying they are dying. you guys are just not listening and its quite frustrating to watch. just bc you haven't experienced it doesnt mean it isnt happening.

[wooden agate]

thats the thing, i think herrera is fine the way it is except for its ground movement speed

[cyan flame]

Sure, people do die, I don't think anyone doubts that. The question is more so if people die so much, and in such a "bad" way that it needs adjustments

[wooden agate]

and honestly, im willing to bet most people who are dying to herrera's are omni/dilo sized or smaller

[cyan flame]

Do herreras get such succesful killstreaks that they have a clear impact on any playables population?

[wooden agate]

bleed only factors into things above dilos size, and its very survivable

the only thing you may kill with bleed once in a blue moon is carnos, and thats because a) they have awful bleed resistence, b) theyre often low on hunger cause carno hunger drain so they bleed faster, and c) they like to run

ceratos? you will RARELY kill a cerato with bleed

i have atleast 200 hours on herrera so far and ive yet to kill any cerato thats sub adult or larger

[indigo gulch]

this tbh.

[wooden agate]

dont forget, herrera is basically a 1 shot for most things as well

omnis can 1 shot herreras, herreras can 1 shot omnis. dilos can 2 shot herreras, herreras can only one shot dilos with a headshot from very high up

[warped glen]

Guys ... fix the fatal error thing, before you fantasize of anything else ... PLS !

https://tenor.com/view/free-robux-just-for-you-gif-26248298

[subtle swift]

This !

[burnt bone]

I will say the one time I died to a herrera was due to bleed because I was like a 70% grown dilo and it got I think a headshot on me while I was drinking. Other than that the only time a herrera was a threat was after a fight in the canyon by highlands it was making eating very difficult because I had >10% hp as a cera.

[warped glen]

https://tenor.com/view/crying-crying-meme-gif-26327776

[barren zephyr]

This whole conversation was unironically hilarious too me

[wooden agate]

https://tenor.com/view/bowing-thank-you-tom-and-jerry-take-a-bow-chasing-gif-20784169

[barren zephyr]

Thank you for the enjoyment

[broken ether]

i think ive lost brain cells reading this convo

[barren zephyr]

How would getting rid of south plains hot spot work?

[limber hull]

I liked the part where everyone stopped the conversation to say you suck and then were ignored

[wooden agate]

hit em with that "ok and?"

@shell flower youll never believe what they just said in #announcements

[shell flower]

Yes but I still want to have it as a mutation option, Because I cba anymore.

[boreal briar]

What about a patience mutation

[limber hull]

He can’t unlock that one

[limber hull]

#general-feedback message

“With Echoes of Extinction on the horizon”. What of it lol, it’s an early alpha for a game that kinda just looks like a less done isle. If I wanted to play humans and dinosaurs, I’d play The Isle lol.

[boreal briar]

@odd sage personally I think the biggest issue is the Dilo hallucinations not working in some terrain

If they worked everywhere I think it'd be at a good level

[odd sage]

id like it to be a little quicker on some of these larger species

[barren zephyr]

That and a few little things like changing stage three envenomation to 3 minutes or so instead of 1

and the fact they three call before attacking lol

[boreal briar]

That would be a lot better for a long term thing, but I think it's meant for a burst of damage once you get to stage 3 where everyone pounces at once

I'd love a long term venom for a solo hunter or small group hunting. I love the patient hunts where you just follow them for ages to slowly wear them down

[limber hull]

Issue with that is people will find out ways to overpack so said venom kills as fast as possible

[boreal briar]

Nah just have it so only 1 stack of venom can be applied, other attacks just re-apply the venom timer.

[wooden agate]

#general-feedback message

@barren zephyr they never said they were adding the camera change prototype shown in the dev blog, they just said they were definitely changing the camera (which they already did in the past april patch.) actually, the overreaction to that prototype is why we no longer get dev streams.

AI like legacy would be awful. it made it basically impossible to starve as a carnivore, which is bad. you should have to worry about food in a survival game. the main problem with AI at the moment is the lack of movement and the lack of sounds sometimes.

the stamina system is more of a mixed bag. it succeeds in what its meant to do, which is slow the game down, but some of it feels a bit bad. Pteranodon stamina for instance is objectively great when you know how to use it, you can do laps around the map without having to rest a single time. the stam regen though is admittedly pretty rough.

[barren zephyr]

Oh! Thanks for the feedback :D
I understand sum more stuff now 👍

[wooden agate]

no worries, i feel like alot of distrust with the devs comes from simply not being as informed as we'd like because the communication (while getting better) still isnt great between the devs and us

[tight iron]

pretty sure he means stam regen with the stam thing

not sure tho

also if ptera stam was objectively great, not as many ppl would disagree with it

it's def not objectively great

the issue in the eyes of many is that it takes a phd and a master to enjoy ptera to its fullest, and, since it's a very small tier and a bird, it shouldn't have to be that way, but i agree that, if you really know how to use it, you can quite literally do laps around the map

[wooden agate]

if holding w while looking up at a slight angle takes a phd and a master, im concerned

[tight iron]

you know im overexaggerating it lol

[wooden agate]

im not even entirely convinced the stamina issue when hunting fish is that bad either, considering you can cling to trees/rocks, eat, and then fly off again with 0 stam cost

[tight iron]

nah it's not for hunting fish

however, flying up for example takes a ton of stamina from you unless you know how to perfectly do it

ptera is like the starter playable, it shouldn't be this "difficult" to play

"difficult" because it's not, but for new players it really is

small tiers should have forgiving stamina and low maintenance ngl

[restive fjord]

Case of herrera: It can double kill 2 raptors if it falls in between them. Concept of hitting something by free falling, killing it instantly if it is even like 3 times bigger, solely by the sheer amount of weight multiplied by gravity is all - realistic, immersive and fun at the same time. Situation I described here is neither of that. Well, maybe it is fun for herrera player. But you get my point.

[wooden agate]

@ripe spire #general-feedback message theyre bringing back random spawns :P

[ripe spire]

good

what people are willing to do to ruin their survival game experience is baffling to me

[restive fjord]

This statement is kinda wrong if I am being honest. Give them, players, some sort of tutorial that is being discussed here from time to time and most of the disagreements will vanish. Also the overexaggerating part: That PHD can be simply form of a video on youtube maybe? Lots of those there. Basically just a continuation of the tutorial talk here.
Idea of starter playable in games like this is quite strange to me. Small tiers can die in a single hit, just like juvis of any other tier with the difference that once you are big enough with a mid tier lets say, you can stand your ground better. If anything, herbivores/omnivores should work as starting playables. If carnivores are more popular/interesting, they should also be harder to maintain. Not only because of that ofc, general idea of carnivore is basically a harder difficulty. We are still discussing a survival game after all and it is also online game as a matter of fact. Any playable can be butchered by dedicated players. Dumbing down some aspects in order to provide easier time playing should be the job of community servers but that is already a different topic I guess.

[spark lantern]

They sould add a Titanoboa wich takes about the same time as a crock to grow full When its full grown it should be longer then the deino the attacks are simple left click normal bite hold right click you should roll up on a player like crock or a raptor or cera and it should be able to be in water and land but on the land it should be as fast as a juvie crock or slower

[wooden agate]

#general-feedback message

@barren zephyr dibble is in hordetesting, dilo and herrera were added 6 months ago, and 4 other animals were added barely over a year ago.

so uh... wrong lol

[barren zephyr]

That is no excuse and no progress for nearly a decade passed by brotha

[wooden agate]

considering they completely remade the game in 2020 and focused mainly on mechanics rather than playables

i'm sorry that you measure "progress" as just playables, but that's objectively wrong

[restive fjord]

Devs should really start developing time machine so they can undo all their mistakes and failed attempts because the current state is horrible and the only way is to erase that 10 years of development mark. I do not see any other solution. Lemme actually send a bug report about it..

[balmy compass]

as much as I have gripes with the game, the care and attention to detail in the animations and mecahnics are the best I've seen in any dino game. It just takes more time to complete. Every species feels like an individual which is something I feel is lacking in other games as they just feel like number crunching and stat comparisons

[wary flower]

@pallid frost #general-feedback message

I think that is exactly how they want you to play pachy lol

[tight iron]

yup

get a fracture and run away

[wooden agate]

ideally it should be a small brawler that is incredibly life threatening for things its size and a decent size bigger, and less life threatening for things above 1000kg but still able to pach(y) a punch and get away with fractures

[tight iron]

that's the way it works rn

so no change needed

[wooden agate]

lol no

fractures having no stun means whatever you fracture (if its larger than you) just gets free bites on you while youre still getting up

[tight iron]

good

[wooden agate]

objectively bad for pachy lol

[tight iron]

objectively good for everything else

[wooden agate]

like youre directly being punished for engaging with your RMB

[tight iron]

adding back pachy stun is one of the biggest nono

or enjoy 1 pachy soloing 4 carnos again

played pachy a bit today and yesterday, it's great

[wooden agate]

actually awful take, im not engaging with bait

[tight iron]

got away from everything and was able to survive raptor packs

alr whatever u say

[wooden agate]

slow as hell for its size
punished for missing with long animation locks
punished for hitting the enemy with long animation locks
mutations flat out get it killed in some situations (speed muts), unless the pachy picks the same thing
low as HELL damage
mediocre agility
RELIES on herds to even be remotely viable
TWO OMNIRAPTORS GRAPPLE IT AT ANY SIZE
one omniraptor renders it incapable of sprinting
terrible trot rate to go with the above issue

but yes, pachy is fine

[tight iron]

when is the last time you engaged against a pachy

and when is the last time you engaged something as a pachy

[barren crater]

How…

[tight iron]

few things could be more wrong than this

[wooden agate]

im glad you asked 😄 i rammed into a carno and proceeded to lose most of my health because whilst i was recovering from my stun (for successfully using my ability!) it was able to bite me freely

[barren crater]

But yeah, stuns suck. I don’t think pachys should get even 1 free stun. They should rework fractures to be useful for pachy and let them move when they hit something

[wooden agate]

@queen ember had a decent idea of letting pachy stun only when applying fresh fractures, and not reapplying them. so you'd only get a max of 3 stuns (for body, leg, head fractures) before you are forced to begin trading health blows again

[queen ember]

https://tenor.com/view/aladdin-cave-of-wonders-who-disturbs-my-slumber-big-cat-gif-15741041

[wooden agate]

girl is that aladdin

i remember that looking alot better

[tight iron]

slow for its size: yes
punished for missing with long animation locks: how the hell are we gonna kill it then
punished for hitting the enemy with long animation locks: yeah or it will solo carno packs again
mutations flat out get it killed in some mutations thing: i agree, i don't like it
low as hell damage: have you ever gotten a head fracture? insane damage to the face
mediocre agility: great agility
relies on herds to even be remotely viable: no it doesn't, but herds massively increase its chances of survival
two raptors grapple it at any size: what's the issue? 900kg vs 500kg, and if you get pinned down by 2, sorry but you had 3 business days to bonk and kill them both, severe skill issue
one raptor renders it incapable of sprinting: not anymore
terrible trot rate: yes

pachy is fine

[tight iron]

did you get a fracture

[wooden agate]

nope :)

[tight iron]

charge the ram a bit more next time you'll get it

[barren crater]

So pretty much you get hurt for using your own ability? Sounds kind of backwards?

[tight iron]

yeah you get hurt for using your own ability cause if not we'll go back to one pachy soloing carno packs 🤷‍♂️

should stay that way

[barren crater]

Or you could rework fracture to make it fair to both creatures 🤔

Also there’s no way a pachy has ever soloed a Carno pack without the carnos being terrible

[tight iron]

forgot to say, yeah it trades, but it wins the trade

a fracture, any fracture, is a win already

leg fracture makes you useless and vulnerable, body fracture means goodbye stam, head fracture... boi you're done

body fracture is the fracture that i want to apply the least for obvious reasons, but it's still great

[tight iron]

do you have anything in mind

[tight iron]

yknow when stuns were there, you could literally grow a pachy and kill 3 decent carnos by yourself

decent = has a grasp

cause you were invincible

that is the issue with stuns, you can't be hit, so you can murder anything you want risk-free

how the hell is that fair

it ain't, so never add stuns back

[barren crater]

Yeah. Not really my idea, but pretty much.

Head fracture:

• Removes carnos ability to charge
• make it so that running blinds the creature like current, while standing around lets them see. Similar to dilo hallucination.
• biteforce shouldn’t be lowered by 50%. 25% max or no damage reduction at all.

Body fracture:

• greatly reduce turn radius of a creature.
• reduce stam cost from 3x down to 1.5 -2x so creatures are able to run away more reliably.

Leg fracture:

• let creatures alt attack.

Pretty much doesn’t screw with the defence of a creature but they’re worse off offensively, allowing the pachy to run away.

[tight iron]

hm

[barren crater]

If they had a grasp then they’d know that standing next to each other meant that the pachy would always trade a hit, since it would stun itself while attacking. Was still pretty overtuned 1 v 1

[tight iron]

oh no being decent they wouldn't get to that level lol

and i mean back when stuns were added

rn you can win a 2v1 against carnos but... just run

maybe try to get a head fracture on the first one but... eh

[waxen moss]

@coarse spruce do i need to be on dirt, to get dusty?

[coarse spruce]

didnt test but unlikely, its probably anywhere

[waxen moss]

Ty

[radiant nest]

@barren zephyr #general-feedback message you got killed by another herrera

[barren zephyr]

No I didnt, I watched the clip 5 times already

[radiant nest]

you didnt see it cause it was night, happens all the time

[barren zephyr]

You always at least see something

but there was literally no motion in there

[radiant nest]

yep cause it falls so fast

trust me ive seen it happen and seen the perspective recorded, its pretty common

[sterile shale]

#general-feedback message @leaden juniper that sounds completely broken and useless, does not seem fair at all that Herra should be able to kill bigger dinos with little to no risk, and even if it could do that it'd be pointless because there's no way it'd be a one shot or inflict enough bleed so the dino can just run away, making everything you did pointless because you won't have enough stam to chase something down and repeatedly pounce on something like an omni

It keeps herra as a mid sized hunter which it should be, its already hard enough to kill one as you need to wait for it to screw up somehow, they do not need more survivability

[restive fjord]

#general-feedback message this should be rather handled by adding growth debuff but not immediately. 10-15 minutes of resting in one place (without any input) will act like having no diets in a sense that growth bonus will start slowly declining despite having diets. Nothing else would be touched. So in theory, if someone is resting for longer than 15 mins (player was situationally afk, healing or whatever), debuff will activate and growth bonus is increasing. Moving with controls/mouse will cancel the effect but if growth bonus is already at -75% it will go up very slowly. Good thing about that is if the player is adult, they do not need to care about the debuff at all and can be afk as much as they want, no stamina hindering or anything else.

[tight iron]

that wont do anything tho

you can just move your mouse when afk growing

afk growing most of the time is being tabbed out

[restive fjord]

Can be about thresholds, moving with mouse does not need to cancel the effect, etc.. The whole problem of AFK growing is literally in the name. So stopping growing while doing so is the ideal debuff for it. Hindering anything else feels silly, especially if you are already fully grown.

[unique mirage]

the real problem is that theres nothing to do and moving around only adds risk right now

give us something to do thats worthwhile and the days of afk growing are over

[restive fjord]

You will get debuff and stop growing, here, you are welcome 😉

[sterile shale]

Debuffs aren't incentives to play the game, people wouldn't bush camp if growing a dino wasn't braindead boring

Punishing them for the game having nothing to do is just a slap in the face

[unique mirage]

thats not a buff tho, thats saying "yo we dont have anything for you so you get punished for playing the game like it is right now"

[sterile shale]

Exactly

It's openworld survival, you can't blame people for finding the most effective way to survive

[limber hull]

@sterile shale 300 seconds isn't excessive enough, random spawns are better

[unique mirage]

like give us a passive mutation or something to our stamina if we keep it in the sub 100s for a longer time in our juvie times etc.

[sterile shale]

Well depends in what context, 5 minutes to respawn would be frustrating if that location is closest to migration zone or something for example, I get the issue of feeding urself but random spawns near mz seems better

[limber hull]

random spawns in general are better imho, they don't need to be near a migration

[unique mirage]

they should be in, or close to a random sanc tho

[limber hull]

you are naturally guided to sanctuaries, where other new juvis will be because they're not all in a hotspot

[sterile shale]

I mean yeah but it'd just be annoying spawning on the opposite side of the map

[sterile shale]

Idk I feel like as a juvi carnivore you don't benefit as much from sanctuaries and it's easier to go straight to mz

[limber hull]

i mean. thats the point of random spawns. they're random to avoid enabling hotspotting to reform easily

[restive fjord]

The best way to survive is finding remote places with AI and stay there for the rest of you days. But that is not fun either, right? There needs to be balance between being able to survive and still keep engaging with enviro/other players.

[sterile shale]

I meant mz* my bad, it'd just suck to get unlucky in ur spawn especially as a carnivore because everytime I goto sanctuary in general there is at most 1 or 2 other people there,

its easier to just go to mz

[sterile shale]

Ok but forcing people to engage with the environment because otherwise they'll be punished isn't fun

[limber hull]

because everyone spawns at hotspots lol

random spawns would naturally cause more sanc activity

[unique mirage]

yeah give every AI one single form of nutrient if you reach adult (maybe even made weaker) to make hunting players worth it

[sterile shale]

true

[restive fjord]

Forcing ppl to play while they are in the game is content for them as for every other player on the server.

[unique mirage]

getting perfect diet as an adult shouldnt be possible with AI

[sterile shale]

I find it hard to imagine people finding enjoyment in something they're forced to do

The game should incentivize not force

[limber hull]

then what do you do about ptera, an AI-based carni

[unique mirage]

scavenge after reaching adult

[sterile shale]

What?

[unique mirage]

until that point you can still get perfect from AI

or live on a weaker 3x dots diet

wouldnt make much difference on ptera tbh

[sterile shale]

I mean after reaching adult all they need is stam

[unique mirage]

and pteras are not really the ones needing player interactions

[limber hull]

okay but they shouldn't suffer for picking ptera lol

[sterile shale]

What? so then why bother removing ai lol

[rapid fulcrum]

one having issues finding official servers?

im not getting all the NA servers

[unique mirage]

I dont suggest removing it, I suggest making the diets gained from them as an adult making you weaker than a ptera living off hunting juvies or scavenging

[restive fjord]

There sure can be other means for players to keep them on their feet (maybe something with elder stages in the future) but if we are talking about survival game then there should not be any way for cheesing.

[sterile shale]

Why? the players shouldn't be punished for the game being kinda boring

[rapid fulcrum]

anyone else cant find most of the NA servers?

[unique mirage]

I mean maybe add a 30% growth buff when spending / regenerating stamina, activated metabolism and all that

[unique mirage]

ask in #isle-discussion

[restive fjord]

Therefore the game should keep you in check by adding stuff to maintain.

[limber hull]

Yea no

[sterile shale]

Like what?

[limber hull]

That's bad game design, constantly punishing players for doing things instead of giving them other, better things to do that go with how you want your game to be played ends up with an unfun game

[sterile shale]

Exactly,

If you want to force people to fight and interact with each other go play path of titans

[limber hull]

Creatures are better motivated by reward than punishment

Reward encourages you to continue engaging and learning in order to receive the reward faster/new rewards/bigger rewards
Punishment encourages avoiding the activity as much as possible to never have to experience the punishment

It's a type of psychology present in most animals. You put out two pieces of food. One portion is bigger than the other portion

In one situation, the bigger portion is guarded by a large gate. The creature can open the gate with a puzzle, and can see the portion, but for the first few days cannot reach it because they cannot figure out the puzzle, so they take the smaller portion and leave, trying again later

In another, the bigger portion is linked to an electric zap whenever the creature tries to approach it. It no longer likes the environment, because it associates it with actively being hurt, so it takes neither portion and never returns, because it genuinely doesn't want the punishment

Both times, the creature wants the larger portion, but you want it to take the smaller one. At least in number one, it feels encouraged to return and try again

[restive fjord]

Constantly punishing players for NOT doing things. Ppl legit would rather not play the game at all by sitting in bushes only to waste slot on the server.

[limber hull]

That's what food, water and nutrients already do, correct?

You're adding more layers to the compounding layers of punishment

[restive fjord]

Yes and it is up to players if they want to be exposed, or very simply not to them.

Server like petit pieds has inbuild system that will kill you if your dino is inactive for longer period of time, lol. Learned that the hard way as FG herrera. That is a punishment. Not that you will grow slower if you are sitting way too long in a bush.

[sterile shale]

Yes because there’s nothing to do until you’re fg, how do you not see that as an issue?

[restive fjord]

Funnily enough, I am former PoT player who stayed in the Isle the first time I got my hands on it. Survival mode suits me much more than whatever PoT is in its current form. Your way of doing things or at least what you are suggesting, to me, seems exactly like PoT mentality, unironically. Getting through the harder parts by cheesing only to enjoy the very top of it which is fighting I assume? How is survival boring to you then? Why not playing PoT?

[sterile shale]

Ok so how should people play the game instead of ‘cheesing’

[unique mirage]

why not play POT? the fighting is literally 10 times better in evrima, POT is legacy tail riding with abilities

[restive fjord]

Plenty of things you can do already. Instead of that, you choose to stay in bush. Why? You can explore, meet randoms, stalk, watching others fight or even jerk around. Like.. If you want, you can find the content. What do you need to have to do while growing in order to consider it fun? You can literally create your own content, design your paths/migrations.. Instead of that, you all of a sudden "need" game to dictate something for you, while also suggesting that the game should not be dictating anything.

[unique mirage]

yeah step outside a bush as a 20% teno and see how far you get

risk / reward is like 100 / 0

[sterile shale]

Ok so everything you described is just watching other stuff, I’ve walked around and explored the map before it’s cool but like, some Dino’s can’t afford to walk around cause they’ll starve

I think everyone would lose they’re mind if they were forced to walk around for hours waiting for their Dino to grow

If I wanted to watch people do stuff in the isle, I’d pull up an OwlTime video

[unique mirage]

insane growth times are another reason for afk growing thats for sure

[restive fjord]

Always growing all my playables by moving around the map. And I always meet others. At least those who are not afk growing or are already grown. You think ur gonna always die when you move around the map? Have you tried?

[sterile shale]

You’re one to talk about dictating, because you’re the one saying everyone should play the game how you view it and should be punished if they don’t play how you like it

[sterile shale]

Yes, not everyone you meet is gonna be friendly especially if they’re a teno

[unique mirage]

I did and saw everything one can see, now i watch youtube while growing and have fun as an adult

[sterile shale]

That’s assuming you can even find other people in the map

[unique mirage]

because im not losing a 1 hour sub to a bigger dino without anything i can do

[sterile shale]

Exactly, there is 0 reward game wise in everything he described, sure it’s cool but you can just all that will so much less risk when you’re fg

[unique mirage]

if i would get a stronger dino for risking my 1 hour grow, now that would change it indeed

[restive fjord]

I view it the way that if you are in the game, not playing it and watching videos on YT, yes, that is a problem.

[restive fjord]

I am literally getting feeling that you are not playing the game at all.

[unique mirage]

problem in game design, yes. Theres a reason why they cut juvie time in half for now

even the devs said they know theres nothing to do as a juvie right now

[restive fjord]

You can bet those aggro teno players are also afk growers.

[ornate spade]

when is diablo coming to evrima?

[unique mirage]

probably, since 80% of people do that

[restive fjord]

Nah. Many players on officials for sure. That is also why I already exclusively play on community servers. The difference between vibes you can get there compared to officials is INSANE. And it is basically the same game build, funnily enough. All you need is players who are willing to play, that is pretty much it. Also, since OwlTime videos were mentioned.. Are they interesting? If yes, is it because the player is actively playing or is he too a bush grower?

[tight iron]

cant really do that

[unique mirage]

He actually is a bush grower in most videos but that stage is obviously skipped. Would recommend you watch some of his videos tho, there are some of the best out there for this game.

[tight iron]

me personally, if i have to move or get debuffed, sure ill move, ill just find another bush and keep afk growing

and if i have to move again, of course, theres infinite bushes anyways, i have plenty to hide in

[sterile shale]

Yes I play the game when I’m full grown

[tight iron]

so debuffs would do nothing but be annoying

cause if you force someone to move in order to grow, that person will move, yes, but to another bush

and if you force me to run around to keep growing, ill run around a forest or a beach where theres nobody

i dont want to see people while im growing, that's the thing

[sterile shale]

I am literally getting the feeling that you are delusional enough to believe there is any content for people to do while growing

[tight iron]

if im growing, im by myself, i don't want anyone besides people who i know and are afk growing as well near me

and well juvie stegos cause easy pickings and give a lotta food n organs 👍

[sterile shale]

OwlTime videos are interesting because he cuts out the hours of him growing

[limber hull]

also, they literally have a plan to solve ALL of this

stomach grows with the creature. That's it.

[tight iron]

nobody shows himself growing

actually everyone just afk grows and then shows adult/big sub gameplay

[sterile shale]

Exactly because it’s not interesting lol

[tight iron]

unless it's a carno that becomes viable super quickly

carno growing is probably one of the best, literally afk grow for 20-30 mins and you're gucci

over 500kg, can outrun everything, specially raptors (not subs, which you kill super quickly anyways), etc

[limber hull]

like, AFK growing HAS a solution. Just DON'T have food grow with the animal, so as you grow, you obviously get hungry faster

[tight iron]

probably one of the most fun growths in my opinion

[limber hull]

that's a thing they're doing, the issue is already being worked on

[tight iron]

pretty much

the only thing that i dont afk grow is ptera

the gameplay is the same whether fully grown or fresh spawn

[limber hull]

i dont afk grow because i launched the game to play it lol, and i think afk growing is just lame/boring

i agree with the idea of not encouraging it, just not with the idea of more debuffs

[sterile shale]

By the time I get my diet of ptera I’m practically full grown haha

[tight iron]

yeah afk growing is boring

[limber hull]

again, solution is already being worked on. Stoach grows with you. The food in your stomach at 20% proportionally is less food at 40%. EZ

[tight iron]

lol, i just go to highlands and then west rail access where there's like 7 frogs waiting for me

[sterile shale]

Boring but sadly efficient 😢

[tight iron]

yup

[unique mirage]

like i would prefer a server that spawns everybody at fully grown over the annoyingly long growth times. I can play survival as an adult aswell, its just gonna be more fun

[tight iron]

petits has nice growth boosts

[sterile shale]

I swear I can never find frogs or crabs or turtles and stuff

[limber hull]

So if you have a stomach with 10kg of food, and your stomach can hold 100kg of food, and your stomach grows to hold 200kg of food, you still only have 5% of your stomach, rather than it scaling with you

[tight iron]

rn it's 1.6x but it's dead cause of ht

[limber hull]

i disagree, i prefer the growth times be more requiring of actual attention lol

[tight iron]

usually it's about 1.4x n 1.2x

[unique mirage]

so if you grow fast you have the insane hunger drain we had earlier?

[tight iron]

i stay for 5 mins there and we ball

[limber hull]

effectively? I mean, I'd assume that if you gain a LOT of weight really fast, like as deino or stego, you'd also get hungry fast

[tight iron]

imma be honest

that solves nothing

ill just drop myself off a cliff as stego twice instead

[limber hull]

random spawns are being added too

[restive fjord]

Stomach growing with animal can also be considered a debuff. I remember them discussing even some sort of muscle soreness that will hinder stam pool or something? Not sure about that. This is something I would not like. Hindering the actual growth sounds more doable to me.

[limber hull]

won't be able to effectively spawn in the same place twice without crazy luck or a rotten stego

[tight iron]

bro if i get hindered stam pool im dropping off a cliff immediately

[limber hull]

what

[tight iron]

im NOT playing with hindered stam pool

[limber hull]

what are you talking about lol

tf is hindered stam pool

[tight iron]

this

[limber hull]

i mean, again, don't need a debuff

[tight iron]

yes just make the juvie gameplay interesting

[limber hull]

just make stomach scale with your growth

[tight iron]

make reward better than risk

cause risk rn is pretty stupid

[restive fjord]

or do stuff so it can be interesting later? Like in elder stage?

[tight iron]

reward: nothing
risk: get nibbled to death by a teno

[tight iron]

i personally afk grow all the time cause i refuse to get nibbled to death by a teno

[limber hull]

what?

how often are you dying to teno bites that this is an issue for you lol

[restive fjord]

teno exclusively? 😄

[tight iron]

do yall not get it

[unique mirage]

they dont

[tight iron]

im not saying i ALWAYS get nibbled to death by a teno

im putting it as an example of death

i can put all the possible deaths if you want me to tho 💀

(gonna run out of characters like 100 times)

[sterile shale]

True tenos are veryyy agro haha

[tight iron]

pecked to death by an expert ptera, fall off a random ass cliff, get kicked in the face by a teno, get thagomized by a stego, get bonked by a pachy, get rammed by a carno, etc etc etc

[restive fjord]

Joking with you, man. It just sounded funny to me. Well, I never do a bush grow. And I can survive pretty easily all the time.

[limber hull]

again, stomach scales with growth

never made sense that you could sit on the 3 compies you ate as a juvi and vibe your way up to sub-adult in the first place, and now it actually has an interesting thing where juvis need to eat more frequently, but less food overall, whereas adults can settle down more for nesting

[tight iron]

oh lmao

[limber hull]

all of these are really hard to die to as a juvi unless you ain't paying attention lol

[unique mirage]

players in this game see a weaker creature (atleast most of them) and straight up murder it

[tight iron]

i know, but im not taking any chances

player who sees you = player who kills you almost all the time

[limber hull]

then there's no functional way to make juvi appealing to you beyond just actually making the stomach thing a thing

[tight iron]

yes

[tight iron]

honestly i myself don't even know a way to make it fun to play

[limber hull]

because there's no universe where you're going to risk literally anything

[tight iron]

perhaps some sort of activity that is pretty damn fun

[unique mirage]

how is it hard to die to a dino that is stronger and faster than you

[limber hull]

so the only solution is to insentivise you to do more as you grow in a way that realistically makes sense

[limber hull]

wouldn't do anything frankly based on how i see your (and many other's) mindset

that fun activity is a distraction from the endgoal, be adult, fight

[tight iron]

if the reward is worth it ill do it

[limber hull]

or potentially a risk.

not worth the chances of that

[tight iron]

the reward right now is pretty much none compared to the risk of, well, dying

[unique mirage]

i mean I'd take the risk if there was ANY reward

[tight iron]

^^

[limber hull]

what reward can you get that matches up for you against death

[tight iron]

honestly, fun

for example

[unique mirage]

anything more than nothing

[limber hull]

and objectively, no matter what, people will go "it's more fun to be an adult" and ignore the juvi thing

[tight iron]

if im playing with others, we afk grow like half of the time, the other time we spend it trolling other people and trying to get on trees

[limber hull]

like what

literally i want one example that you'd engage with that'd make you actively stop afk growing

[restive fjord]

this mindset is already there

[limber hull]

im aware lol, that's the point im making

[tight iron]

yeah probably

[unique mirage]

passive mutations only earned in the juvie and sub stage through different actions

[limber hull]

already have that

[tight iron]

a growth boost/more mutations when you hunt a specific species of ai

[limber hull]

god no lol

[tight iron]

for example 1 mutation slot when you hunt a pretty rare species

[unique mirage]

on top of the ones we have

[limber hull]

afk growing for a specific AI farming to get rewards

[unique mirage]

like passive passive

you dont choose them, you get them

[restive fjord]

Only like the first iteration. Not sure if anything else comes next but the current state of that is rather poor.

[unique mirage]

xd? its still better than doing nothing

[limber hull]

it still is doing nothing

[tight iron]

hunting a specific, rare ai is doing something

[limber hull]

afk growing until an AI species spawns then charging it, then going back to AFKing

also just kinda forgets herbivores exist lol

[tight iron]

no, you have to go to a specific place, find it, kill it, eat it and then another activity

[unique mirage]

make it spawn in a sanctuary like area, making juvie carnis be competition for each other

[limber hull]

so its migrations

the thing herbivores already have and everyone doesn't engage with except its for carnivores and better

[tight iron]

no it aint migrations

[limber hull]

it is effectively migrations

"go here, eat this, get buffs"

migrations

[tight iron]

ain't locked in one single part of the map yknow, but in many

and you dont go there like a cow to eat smth that you smell, you go there to find something that gives you a temporary buff

[limber hull]

"you go there to find something that gives you a temporary buff "

like diets. for migrations

[unique mirage]

on top of the normal diet buffs of course

[tight iron]

difference is that migrations are very different

[limber hull]

the difference is that they're different

i see.

[tight iron]

boring thing that forces you to go somewhere or you get all the debuffs in the universe

whereas finding and killing a specific ai is something that you choose to do on your own, you go somewhere and you can get a temporary buff

[limber hull]

vs boring thing that forces you to go somewhere or you'll be outcompeted by the dudes with all the buffs in the universe yes yes

[tight iron]

temporary buff

[limber hull]

fascinating

[tight iron]

aint forced, you can always stay in the bush 🤷‍♂️

safer there but if you choose not to, you can get a certain temporary buff that makes it worth it

[unique mirage]

but atleast you do something? like, the thing you wanted?

some people xd

[limber hull]

sounds risky. could just bushgrow and avoid that noise

also, again, why carni exclusive? only solving half of the issue for half of the playables

[tight iron]

same thing with herbis but a plant

[sterile shale]

No migrations are a good idea otherwise people would just be hotspot central

[tight iron]

hell naw they're terrible

not a single herbi stays in the migration so that pretty much shows that they're bad

[limber hull]

so literally sanctuaries? or mini-migrations? dont you think herbis have enough places to go when spawning in

[tight iron]

cant treat players as ai

[unique mirage]

spiro diet spawns > gateway migration

[tight iron]

well then what do u suggest

[tight iron]

pretty much

[sterile shale]

I mean yeah people can move around they’re not trapped

It’d be boring to sit in migration and do nothing

[limber hull]

i enjoy migrations more than whatever we had on spiro lol

spiro genuinely felt more restrictive. Constant triangle motion my entire life, god damn it was dull

[tight iron]

if you move around you get all the debuffs in this universe

so we ball

[limber hull]

if you move from the triangle with the old diet system, you get all the debuffs in the universe

whats your point

[tight iron]

unless you share a plant with another species in which case you can move around kinda freely and eat that plant

[sterile shale]

Well if we didn’t have migration we’d just have hotspots again which is arguably far worse

[tight iron]

however, as your migration switches n stuff, that plant is no longer on your diet so you're forced somewhere else

[tight iron]

stay where u want eat a plant

[limber hull]

also gateway now has a much slower hunger/nutrient drain so you actually can just go wandering to a completely new biome and vibe there for a bit and still not run out of nutrition

i play enough herbivore to know

[tight iron]

uh no

[sterile shale]

But that’s literally so boring 😭

[tight iron]

even with migrations we still have hotspots

[tight iron]

rn it's even worse cause you don't get to stay where u want

[restive fjord]

Plenty of other MZs going on where you can find similar diets in fact. I´d even say that the current migration system is basically enhanced Spiro system.

[sterile shale]

That’s how looking for food works

[tight iron]

already said that

[sterile shale]

A lot less, Random spawns would reduce it even further

[limber hull]

true, i've often been to highlands and found the fireweed i need which also grows on my coastal migration

[tight iron]

i still see many herbis in hotspots murdering everything

so the hotspot thing hasnt been solved at all

herbis still go wherever they want and accept the debuffs over the boring migration thing

[restive fjord]

I literally wandered with my teno across the whole map and I always had some diet on me.

[sterile shale]

They’re gonna do that regardless, that’s just combat lol

[limber hull]

no, they go where they want because they got their diets, and the nutrition lets them leave for long enough to just do other things

[tight iron]

alr then migrations solved nothing 👍

[tight iron]

no sir, they go where they want cause they dont wanna be told where to go how to go and when to go

[limber hull]

again, i play a lot of herbi, you can just eat what you need, bail the MZ, roam around a bit, and come back when low on nutrition

[sterile shale]

I don’t think migration was to prevent combat? The only thing to do in this game is combat lmao

[tight iron]

you mentioned that we'd just have hotspots again, and we still have em, so yeah

[restive fjord]

also afk growing

[limber hull]

then they'd die because the debuffs would make them just lose most combat scenarios lol, so if they're "murdering everything in hotspots" but also entirely malnourished, something isn't adding

[tight iron]

you afk grow to not die and have combat sooner

[tight iron]

yup they're just grazing

[sterile shale]

I said without them there would be more hotspots, it’d just be spiro all over again,

[tight iron]

tested this yesterday as pachy, i was more than capable of killing ceras n carnos on my own without any diets

[tight iron]

eh, not sure about that

[limber hull]

clearly not because they're able to "murder everything". So they have to have gotten some nutrition (aka, they visit migration zones, top up on their nutrients, then roam, like i said)

[sterile shale]

How?

[tight iron]

no they dont need diets to murder everything

[restive fjord]

No, I wander around to have it interesting and then go fight - the same amount of game time invested

[limber hull]

are carnis that bad?

[tight iron]

as long as you can kick/tail slam/bonk/thagomize you can fight and win

[limber hull]

that's sad lol

[tight iron]

yes

you can sometimes solo a cera as a raptor 🤷‍♂️

or hell even a fg stego bites only 💀

many people in this game are at the average or below average

[unique mirage]

yeah unless stego migration is elsewhere, which imo kinda sucks. It should be like spiro diet spawns but you get all 3 easy if you follow the migration around because it spawns all 3 in it

[tight iron]

provided that you have above average combat abilities, you can pretty much kill anything

[restive fjord]

but it was kinda always like that

[tight iron]

so if i choose to say nuh uh not doin migrations and stay in a place as a pachy, i can still kill practically anything i want even with no diets

as teno it would be a bit more complicated, still very feasible but somewhat annoying

so ill wait for migrations to swap so a plant that i share with another species spawns in and i can eat it 👍

[sterile shale]

I mean yeah you can do what you want but that doesn’t mean migration is bad

[tight iron]

the reason i claim it to be bad is because it restricts your freedom to a very specific place and treats you like you are a computer

it doesn't treat you as a human (do what you want, think rationally, etc) which makes it boring

[unique mirage]

no, right now you can only find your diet outside of your MZ if another MZ is there and spawns your food. No stego MZ highlands, no fireweed for my teno there

[tight iron]

and that is why i try to find herbis outside of migration zones and have better luck excepting stegos

if i go to teno migration, i won't find a single teno unless in east plains, where you can find upwards to 10 tenos all murdering everything they see + pachies aiding them

if i go to swamps, i won't find stegos, they're in south plains murdering everything

if i go to northeast plains, i won't find pachies, they're in east plains

if i go to highlands, ill find tenos

[unique mirage]

and now that i see it again, hell yeah make tap to sprint a setting we can turn off

[restive fjord]

What is the deal with random spawns anyway? Why not having pretty much all spawnpoints for each playable and then timer on them?

[tight iron]

because people don't want others to be able to spawn a stego wait a bit spawn as (insert thing here) and eat

[restive fjord]

that "wait a bit" part can be even 10 minutes or more

[tight iron]

better than spawning dying instantly and waiting 10+ mins

[sterile shale]

Because then you’re just asking for hotspots

[restive fjord]

You can roll randoms the same way and keep killing yourself.

[sterile shale]

The odds of you being able to respawn in the same area quick enough are highly unlikely

By that logic it’d be so much quicker to just kill yourself and spawn at the next closest spawn point and go eat the corpse

So the 10 minute cool-down does nothing

[restive fjord]

I would add timer on playables too 😂

[sterile shale]

Why that’s a terrible idea

[wooden agate]

#general-feedback message

#announcements

@alpine solstice

[crimson citrus]

@night raptor mb for the ping but what's the screenshot of the mutation and how to obtain it from? Asking because I'm curious if you have a list

[keen vapor]

@inland vigil tbh i cant see how that hunger system would improove the game. Seems overcomplicated and would be very confuzing for newer players.

[whole furnace]

How is it overcomplicated?
It’s literally:

• Eat to full to chill for a while
• When hunger hits half go eat or you risk dying
• If your hunger gets to red you for sure die as a solo

Which is leagues better than what we have rn. You tellin’ me I’ve gotta constantly run between MZ as a DIABLO?? The slowest potato known to man? Absolutely not lol

[night raptor]

Tbh im not quite sure. It was sent to me by this person. @cloud frost

might just be wikipedia

[brisk lantern]

What if the human gameplay could have the VR option

[keen vapor]

I dont see how this solves the problem. Its really unintueative and i can only imagne it beeing fustrating rather than an interresting game mechanic. Why should hunger drop unevenly and why should going to 0% hunger be certain death?

[boreal briar]

@inner sphinx I think the problem with that would be leg breaks. They can already mess you up after breaking your leg, now you want them to he faster than me?

[brisk lantern]

that true my bad, it was a bad idea forget it

[boreal briar]

@unique mirage If it really wasn't happening on Spiro, maybe it was the engine update. That borked a lot of stuff tbh.

[inland vigil]

Hunger would drop unevenly because they would serve as hunger cues, not the fullness of the stomach itself

[keen vapor]

wdym

[inland vigil]

Basically full hunger means you are satiated. Your hunger does not drop because your body is not cuing you to go eat again.

When the value begins to drop, you're beginning to feel hungry. This is a transition from satiated to hungry. Think of it as feeling like you need to grab a snack or begin looking for food. It's padding; as soon as your hunger begins to go down, it's a cue to start looking for food.

When you're at 50%, you're hungry. You want food. Typically you can go a little while without eating and it'll be okay, so the value stays at 50% for a while. You still have time to find food, and typically by now you'll be hunting the food you found.

If you go too long without food, ie. by failing hunts/scavenging/migration, you'll start to feel more and more sick. Initially you'll only feel it as the player- you might start snapping at your teammates that you need to get going or else you're going to starve. It's like being "hangry" lmao. People say "I'm starving" when they're really hungry but usually it doesn't affect you too bad until you're REALLY starving.

In come the final hunger cues. At this point you're getting so hungry that your body is starting to shut down. These are where actual symptoms of starvation come in- you're weaker, more tired, angry, desperate. You start losing minor health, but you still have a shot to find a meal while keeping a level head. This is where you need to start relying on teammates to help you out.

Finally, actual starvation comes when you hit zero. This is where you begin dying. You can rest to slow the process, and your teammates can help you survive. Again, you have a little bit of time left by resting, and you wouldn't die as quickly as the current system.

Finally, if no one helps you and you can't find anything, you succumb to natural selection.

[unique mirage]

to make that feel better maybe do away with the hunger bar in general and change it words in the character overview

[inland vigil]

I agree that it's a more complex system than constantly losing hunger, but imo the benefits of this system outweigh the benefits of the simple system in place. It urges people to work together, allows down time so people don't feel like they constantly need a body on the field, lets nesting parents have a moment of peace, and gives many more chances to save yourself from death instead of just hitting zero, losing health, and dying

[inland vigil]

Yeah this would be fine too

[unique mirage]

"satiated", "hungry" etc

would make cera bile way more scary tbh if you cant min max the next bite

[inland vigil]

I kind of based this idea off of what I used to do in a different survival game, where as soon as I hit a specific value or time, I would start hunting. And I knew I would be able to complete that hunt in that time because I knew the map and the animals on it so well that I felt like I could live a normal life. Sleep/patrol territory at night, hunt at dawn, chunk and store the food, etc. We were even able to play on cue !! You wouldn't catch me dead playing in the isle unless we're already moving and I bite my friend's ass for the meme. There is zero opportunity to just live as an actual dinosaur would because the Isle is pretty much just a killing simulator

[keen vapor]

How does this improve the game in any sense. Why should the devs take time to change something that was never a problem to begin with?

[whole furnace]

Idk what game you’re playing cause hunger has always been an issue XD

With the hunger system right now the Isle is just a PvP dino battle simulator. You must always be on the hunt for your next meal; there’s no time for resting, nesting, exploration, or just goofin’ around.

[wooden agate]

idk, ive never felt a need to constantly keep hunting and stuff like that

unless i'm something like herrera

herrera hunger is.. not great

[whole furnace]

I’ve felt it mainly on the bigger playables and yeah herrera. It’s not very fun to constantly be on the move, especially with carno’s atrocious stam man XD

[wooden agate]

carno is also pretty bearable with mutations

[whole furnace]

Yeah mutations help, but we shouldn’t have to rely on mutations for basic stuff like normal hunger rates imo; muts should be for stam gain or other fun things

Like mm delicious saltwater

[inland vigil]

It's mainly on the big guys! Though my idea isn't perfect I definitely think hunger itself is a somewhat bland and simple feature that basically just urges people to constantly kill one another to keep it "topped off". Coupled with the absolutely insane lack of doing anything other than eating... I don't know. It gets boring 😭 the isle has a great idea going for it but in terms of gameplay there's not much going on, and with the system in place right now, a lot of what we could do to pass the time is taken up by hunting and eating and starving. Animals do more than hunt and eat and starve, you know? I'd love to have periods of time where I just can rest and exist 😔

Doing things in hunger cues can also just make it more clear when you should realistically start thinking about food. Because honestly I'm always thinking about food .. there is never a time when I'm not thinking about food

[urban flax]

I don't understand either

[urban flax]

Maybe what you want is just... longer hunger times ?

[inland vigil]

No, not really. What I want is to have stages of hunger which are easy to understand.

100%: I'm happy and satiated for x amount of time
Below 100%: I should start looking for food now
50%: I need to kill this thing I found before things get worse, I have x amount of time to do that
25%: this is my last chance to find food or kill my prey
0%: I'm dying, I can rest for only so long, someone help me

[urban flax]

But that's literally what the hunger bar is for

I don't see how making it NOT decay at a steady rate makes it easier to understand

[inland vigil]

My issue is that hunger is always falling

There is never a time when being full is being full

[urban flax]

Yes
The reason is to give you a clear idea on how much time you have left before you need to eat again

[urban flax]

Your system wouldn't change anything about that, it's just placebo
There would be a timer during which you stay full, right ?

And that timer would start counting down as soon as you're done eating
So it's the exact same thing as the bar going down
Except that you cannot see the bar going down
It's just an illusion

[inland vigil]

I dislike the system in place. I feel as if I need to constantly top off the food that I'm losing. Even having a small amount of stomach percentage down makes me feel like I need to go kill or find something else to stop it from dropping, because I have stopped hunting to relax in the past and it's genuinely a death sentence. There is not a period of down time in which I can just enjoy being full; not to mention that being full does not have any benefit whatsoever. Your hunger will continue to drop as soon as you stop eating, and starvation does nothing but make you panic because you're taking damage.

The idea is to give players peace of mind when full, as well as give many more opportunities to stop starvation before it kills you by use of strategies such as teamwork and resting. Because people are given the chance to relax for a generous amount of time when they're full, it also potentially allows room for other survival and PVE mechanics to be introduced to fill non-hungry time (things like herd buffs from sparring or possibly even territory mechanics), which betters the game and ambiance as a whole

[urban flax]

I don't think you've mentioned other things than debuffs when low on hunger in your suggestion
The rest, (notably the non-linear way the stomach empties) is just useless fuzz that makes the entire mechanic unclear and turns the knowledge of "how much time you have left" into guesswork

[inland vigil]

That's fair criticism. I could rewrite it to be more clear, I wrote it in a rush this morning before work so it's pretty clunky :p

My main issue though is that a lot of the behavior you see on the isle is just hunting and killing. The Island doesn't feel alive because we are not given potential through down time to actually utilize the mechanics in place such as nesting, or even future potential mechanics

[urban flax]

Yeah, so just... longer hunger times
And also different food availability mechanics would work, as for now herbivore migrations and diets are both terrible

[inland vigil]

The idea is to break up the "oh my god I'm dying" into stages of dying, so yeah, most dinosaurs would have more hunger at their disposal. For sure a lot of the migrations and diets are terrible.. I feel so bad for carno mains

[wooden agate]

to be fair, i would not be totally upset at longer hunger times in general

[inland vigil]

Think of it as like.. the stomach we have, plus some extra at the bottom to make room for the dying stages

[wooden agate]

we slowed down the game via stam but didnt adjust hunger/water times to reflect that as well,

[inland vigil]

Yeah I agree

[urban flax]

Actually, hunger times were adjusted after Gateway's release

I think the devs kinda push for players to be constantly looking for food... But the way it's done isn't ideal

[inland vigil]

Yeah that's the issue imo

We have zero time for sleeping, playing, sparring/roughhousing, checking territory, denmaking, or anything else an animal actually does

It's all food move starve

[wooden agate]

not good ENOUGH grrr

[inland vigil]

Like I understand people aren't coming to the isle to actually be a dinosaur. They're coming to the isle to kill each other as dinosaurs. I'm just thinking for the future, because clearly the developers want the game to be an immersive and realistic experience

[wooden agate]

just slap like 20 minutes onto all the hunger times and dial back diet decay a bit

[keen vapor]

True, allthough i dont think the hunger system you are suggesting solves the issue with lack of stuff to do. It is really something the devs need to focus on. The game is really bland and there is pretty much nothing else to do than to go around and pick fights with everyone. Players fight just because they are bored and i doubt reworking hunger will solve that.

[urban flax]

And also because fights in this game are fun, compared to most survival games

[inland vigil]

That's fair. There's probably other ways