general-feedback-discussion

[red mica]

to me, personally, i think it limits the camera to much to the point of "if you do all that, why not go all they way..?".
genuinely, the whole thing just needs to be play tested by everyone, to see if it really limits the view that much, i personally think they could have done something other than this to limit your view, like, how are alt attacks gonna work? how is teno and stego gonna be viable if youu can't see your tail very well?
the whole thing about "blindspots" is a whole ordeal in it of itself.

[icy lion]

#isle-discussion message

#isle-discussion message

[brittle sail]

stego definitely going to be tricky

[icy lion]

Yea, big fat square body and a little head

[brittle sail]

galli less so imho

[red mica]

First question dondi made: I will answer that with a question and a statement. what parts of the game is it destroying? ambushing? we have thick foliage already.

the point he made: If we wanted this we would have asked the devs to be MORE vulnerable, like genuinely, how would you react if you suddenly couldnt see in real life? sure, the camera system may not 'turn us helpless' but it suure will help that aspect. we have a monitor for a reason, sight is our most prominent sense. If we wanted this, we would have asked for this.

[limber hull]

they have discussed how tricky stego will be

[red mica]

Audio is a big key factor too.

[icy lion]

That first statement was in response to someone asking about alt attacks not working. Basically he's saying "we're not going to add a camera that destroys the whole concept of alt attacking"

[red mica]

i get that i wont 'destroy' the alt attacks in the way you're thinking, but to me it just feels like they're nerfing dinos they don't need to give a nerf to currently. Pouncing is a thing too, Omni and troodon are already bad at pouncing and that's kinda their main gimmick, so if their camera is destroyed to the point of basically first person then how are they gonna see in the bushes or the dense foliage they were meant to fight in? again, i dont know, we'll have to wait to have an actual play test for it before people can form an actual opinion on it.

[limber hull]

they actually have a "foliage cam" prepared

[red mica]

why go through all this trouble to make a camera that, currently, nobody likes except for a small population of the isle community members?

[limber hull]

also, zooming in often makes it easier to see through bushes with the current cam

[red mica]

literally no it doesn't

maybe in legacy it does

[limber hull]

as if you don't zoom in atm

it's literally how i prepare ambushes from bushes

otherwise my screen is covered with leaves

[red mica]

that's only you dude, i'm not gonna insult how you play, but I have really only done that once, never again.

[limber hull]

i've seen tons of videos of people doing the same

would you rather peek through the branches and see what's walking by, or just get an eyeful of green

[red mica]

i usually pick smarter bushes so my eyes are not full of green bushes
I have a ranking system of bushes in my mind and the small, medium bushes are great for my playstyle

and i play the game fully zoomed out, so you get an idea of the bushes

[limber hull]

I often alternate in zoom dependent on situation

[red mica]

alot of people do, including me

[brave vale]

Yepp in those regards… zooming in is Good… but then again to zoom out after…

and also for example when traversing through a heavy jungle etc. that way i can sorta see whats infront of me…

[red mica]

agreeable

[limber hull]

#general-feedback message

Why would you want to play The Isle if it's "more like PoT"

Just play PoT

[modern heath]

Join "The Isle" reddit to discuss the latest updates

[limber hull]

requires engaging with "The Isle" reddit

[modern heath]

Ahaha, there is a lot of funny things about the game 😉

[limber hull]

i do not know what this has to do with reddit

[urban flax]

Not understanding what the other person means and rejecting the fault on whatever you want to whine against

That's the essence of reddit

[empty sonnet]

Hard agree and I do this when needed

[urban flax]

@vapid sorrel I love how the camera "feedback" changes just like the stamina feedback did
At first everyone was screaming it was the worst change ever and that they would stop playing the game forever, but as time goes more and more people start to like, or at least not hate, the idea
And it's still not even out yet

[vapid sorrel]

Yep! Everyone says it's the end and bla bla.. But it's just a important change to make this game going into the right direction.. People only see what they want.. Devs see what we deserve.. A beautiful game with unique mechanics that another game hasn't..

[hexed anchor]

To be fair, the original stamina nerf was so bad that it was undone

[urban flax]

It wasn't tho

[honest ferry]

Again… why are people complaining about people giving feedback on the feedback area… it’s there for us to express how we feel. Go nag somewhere else

[urban flax]

It ain't feedback bro

[honest ferry]

I’m not talking about anything stated previously in discussion

I’m rando coming in after reading stuff in other chat

The other feedback general. Whatever yall are saying I haven’t read yet

[hexed anchor]

It was? The original nerf severely increased stamina drain and removed stamina regain while trotting. The stamina drain has since been reduced and you do again regain stamina while trotting as long as you have a certain amount

[urban flax]

Stamina drain hasn't been increased, it's the opposite
All run times have been greatly increased with the stamina rework

And that's not a revert, that's adjustments

But I think the way it works now isn't the right way either, as it's based on tresholds instead of a curve

[hexed anchor]

Run times increased after they temporarily decreased stam and made it super punishing to run

[urban flax]

Nope, increasing run times was a part of the rework

[hexed anchor]

From what point in time are you measuring? Because I distinctly recall a patch where stam was terrible, took forever to recover, couldn't be recovered in a trot, and didn't last long at all. The most recent changes are fine imo

[urban flax]

From the release of gateway

[barren crater]

^ yep

Carno for example ran for 110s on the public release

[hexed anchor]

Yeah, stam was nerfed for Gateway and they've been slowly improving it again

[barren crater]

Run times were buffed. Spiro Carno ran for 60s

Gateway stamina also allowed you to attack more times than on Spiro

Teno can currently tail slam 50 times vs the 12~ times it could on spiro

[hexed anchor]

Beipi, ptera, deino?

[barren crater]

Only thing worse is regens, but for the longer run times & more attacks you can do, its pretty fair. Still needs more tweaks though

[hexed anchor]

I was more speaking to the side of regens anyway

I'll admit if I was wrong on runtimes for most dinos

[barren crater]

Understandable. I do think it needs some tweaks. Total time to regen for stuff like Ptera is a bit much. Also Beipi needs some love

Deino is an odd one. I think more stuff is needed for it in general. I'd love it if basking possibly let it regen faster (not too much faster of course, but a noticeable amount) with the risk of being more vulnerable to predators

Especially with the growth changes that are coming soon for deino

[hexed anchor]

I love Gateway but I've switched to playing almost solely deino instead of chilling on beipi/ptera because the stam on those two was so bad it'd cause me ro starve. They're a bit better now but still too difficult to maintain.

I'm a chill Isle player, I just wanna vibe. Deino is the most chill dino right now, but it gets hella stressful once you reach fg and have to eat almost constantly. I usually end up snackrificing just so I can grow again and not be so worried about food

Anyway, my point was, the stam comparison didn't make much sense because a lot of the stam debuffs have been reduced sinve their initial implementation and they're still very annoying

[urban flax]

@cursive wave The camera isn't for realism

As The Isle isn't supposed to be a realistic game

[cursive wave]

for better Ambush but for realism too

[cursive wave]

the changes in time rn feel so

[urban flax]

No
Immersion ? Yes
Realism ? Not really

[cursive wave]

this is just annoying the camera

[urban flax]

Sure
That camera you haven't tested and is heavily WIP and you basically know nothing about is very annoying

[cursive wave]

imagine how you will play teno or Stego with this camera

[cursive wave]

somethings you didnt need too test
for seeing that its trash

[urban flax]

Truly words of wisdom

That's how progress is made
Shutting things down before they out because you "know" they will be trash

[cursive wave]

they can add it but then it should be a Choice too use the camera because this camera is stupid
you dont see ur skin u dont could play Teno or Stego because you cant look good behind u

[urban flax]

You don't know that

[cursive wave]

they just showed us the new Camera...

[urban flax]

Dondi showed the earliest WIP version in a stream
And he was actively tweaking it while talking
So no, you don't know

[cursive wave]

and also we dont need the new Camera system no one rlly asked about this trash

[urban flax]

No one asked for evrima
No one asked for gateway
No one asked for most of what they've been doing
If they had to wait for the community to ask for something to make it, we'd still be stuck with a buggy af legacy but with stronger rex and a bunch of useless megatheropods

[cursive wave]

Evrima wasnt a Choice
Much dudes asked for a better map
and the most dudes asked for things they do
like dinosaurs and new mechanics

[urban flax]

You know what's the mature choice to do about it ?
Wait for a stress test and give feedback on it, based on something tangible

[cursive wave]

you know what you like to play with the new camera but then you will hardly see any others because the camera is rubbish

[urban flax]

I'm not sure what you've been told about the new camera
But it's not gonna be a black wall in the middle of the screen, as you seem to believe

[cursive wave]

and you cant say that this isnt true nearly every Feedback is against this trash camera

[cursive wave]

this is trash

[urban flax]

I can, because this community has a habit of posting opinions about things they don't even care to inform themselves about, and they eat misinformation every breakfast

[urban flax]

WIP is the keyword is
Also it just needs a few adjustments to be good

[cursive wave]

a "first" person would be trash

[urban flax]

A lot of games have cameras that don't let you see your entire character, and they work fine

[cursive wave]

or you think its good because you just trash in this game

[urban flax]

In case you haven't noticed, it's not first person

[cursive wave]

That games a maked for this like shooters
But a DINOSAUR game isnt optimized for this trash

[urban flax]

Already down to the insults ? You're great at arguing

[urban flax]

I was thinking of ARPGs

[cursive wave]

better then u i have more arguments then u
u use only 3

[latent olive]

[cursive wave]

ye ok
but this is a third person too

[urban flax]

Wait you have arguments ? I must have missed them

[cursive wave]

you just have little kid arguments...

[urban flax]

hmmm

[latent olive]

your arguments consist of "camera sucks" and "youre trash"

idk man

[cursive wave]

then read this all and you see what i mean

[umbral skiff]

True, every time, must do the Devs head in

[cursive wave]

you guys can play with thes new Camera
but the most suggestions are against it when they add it then they can delete this chats because then are this chats useless

[urban flax]

This chat wouldn't be as useless if people used it the way it was intended to

(which excludes complaining about unreleased mechanics and changes)

[cursive wave]

this is that what we do
if we dont use critic then is this game broken
u dont even accept my opinion
because everyone that is against it is bad in ur opinon
i use Critc that they make a better day
you can look i nearly doo every day a Feedback and the most are in the same opinon like me

[urban flax]

Yeah some opinions are wrong
Especially the ones that are based on nothing but crowd effect

[hidden mist]

From this angle the rex looks like a leech lol

[cursive wave]

XD

[urban flax]

Is this supposed to prove a point or something ?

[cursive wave]

in one picture u see that nearly no one is for the new camera
on the others u see the date that i make nearly everyday a Feedback to say opinons
and mostly the people are in my opinon too
i like this game but this camera is stupid tbh

[urban flax]

I mean it's easy to get upvotes when you just repost something that has been said dozens of times already

[cursive wave]

it is but that over 60 people are against the camera and only about 8 for it is enough too say that the camera isnt usefull

[urban flax]

Yes and..?
Do you know how many people are on this discord, and how many play the game ?
You could have 500 people upvoting every piece of your feedback it still wouldn't mean much

Especially since this discord is currently under assault by angry redditors who joined it just to complain about unreleased changes

[cursive wave]

how many people use this DC really?
about 500 i guess

[urban flax]

Are they the only ones who matter ?

[cursive wave]

that are the only ones that say anything...

[urban flax]

And what does that mean ?

[cursive wave]

i dont say anything about i hearded too much....

[timber coral]

I'm kinda with him here, how are they supposed to know what everyone wants if only 500 people voice their opinions, doesn't mean they matter less though

I personally dislike the camera changes because it's not the main issue the game has right now, they might make it good but what's a good and new camera system when the game isn't fitted to that

[latent olive]

personally i dont care about the camera changes

i just want a gameplay loop

[timber coral]

What do you mean by that?

[urban flax]

Look, I don't know if the new camera will be any good. I know that other games do very close camera angles and it works perfectly fine, I like the idea of having a point of view that is closer to what your dino can actually see, (and this camera idea is already WAY better than Dondi's original idea, which implied blacking out everything on your screen that wasn't in your dino's field of vision) and I would like having a camera that doesn't put your dino in the way when you're trying to look at things that are close by.
When the new camera becomes public, I'll see how it goes, I'll probably test it myself if I have time to play, and if it ends up being as bad as people say, I will complain too.
Or rather, I will give feedback on how to improve it.

But right now is way too early for that.

[timber coral]

It is too early to judge it that's true, but the initial reaction from me aswell is rather meh

[urban flax]

WIP systems almost always look bad

[timber coral]

That's true

[cursive wave]

The only Thing is that this gamma are not the Same like isle
Isle is a survival Animal game and not a rpg

[urban flax]

Except the voxel burrowing system
Which was a surprise even to the dev who made it

[limber hull]

i went into the game itself, just to see how bad the cam is by comparing the omni to the two screenshots posted

it is literally like, 10% more zoomed in. Unnoticable unless you seriously care

[urban flax]

The Isle is a pioneer in its genre, it has the right to test out unconventional things
And not only RPGs work with close cameras

[urban flax]

Can't see your skin
Can't see behind yourself
1st person gives motion sickness

All it needs is to offset the dino to the right/left to give an "over-the-shoulder" feeling and it's great

[limber hull]

actually, you can see MORE in that image than in-game. The camera angle provides more view on your surroundings than your dino

[timber coral]

It doesn't look half bad, I just hope they make it toggleable

[urban flax]

Making it toggleable would kinda defeat the point of it
Or maybe as a server option

[timber coral]

I know it'd defeat the point but kind of as a motion sickness option for example

[urban flax]

It has no reason to induce motion sickness more than the current camera

[timber coral]

It can if they make the camera shake too much for example

[urban flax]

But why would they ?

[timber coral]

Idk, just a thought

I'll just see what comes of that idea for now, gonna take em a while anyway to flesh out that idea.

[urban flax]

Yeah
What I'm worried about is that they'll need to make custom offsets for some dinos
They stated it thsemselves, a camera fit for a stegosaurus doesn't fit on a gallimimus or other long-necked dinos, like a gallimimus

[timber coral]

They would definitely purely off of logic, because a gallis vision is higher than a stegos

[urban flax]

All I hope is that the new camera will justify removing the camera lock
Which, as "good" as it is in terms of making drinking and eating a strategic choice, is very clunky to play with

Also because of for some GODDAMN reason it's not even centered...

[timber coral]

Yeah it is kinda weird, especially w the prevalent eating bugs that I've come across

I feel like some people lack the composure or respect to actually give constructive criticism. Could be me just being a calmer person in general but I feel like even after complaining a lot and having enough of something doesn't justify being disrespectful

This isn't a good example but you can clearly see the passive agressive note imo

[limber hull]

oh for sure

also the "ban anyone who disagrees with you" is just more fearmongering misinfo

i see a LOT of people who disagree with the change who aren't banned

[timber coral]

It's all about how you say it

[latent olive]

shoutout to that guy in #isle-discussion who posted pics of someone's feedback post at 12pm, and showed their ban message like 4 hours later and claimed it was a ban for "constructive feedback"

[limber hull]

exactly. It's almost like tactful, mature reasoning beats "DEVS ARE FAT IDIOTS WHO WANT THEIR GAME DEAD WITH THESE GARBAGE CHANGES"

[latent olive]

i feel some people are just using the camera changes as a scapegoat

[limber hull]

pretty much

and they're shocked devs aren't thrilled to be doing more phase threes or streams

[timber coral]

Yeah they're frustrated and I understand that but there's no need to lash out at them

[timber coral]

I wouldn't be thrilled either if I had screaming in my ears

[urban flax]

@teal chasm Not a first-person camera

[teal chasm]

damn then i've been given the wrong info

[urban flax]

Yes, like most people

[teal chasm]

thank you for clearing that up lol

[urban flax]

Someone has been spreading the word that it's first person to incite people to complain about it before it's even out

[teal chasm]

what is the cam changes?

[teal chasm]

yeah i dont see a difference im ngl...

[urban flax]

It's more like an over-the-shoulder camera rather than a drone circling around the dino

[ornate moat]

i am absolutely not a fan of not being able to see your whole dino. i prefer being able to look around freely without restriction honestly. they can test it if they want and work out the camera thing but im almost certain the uproar will stay the same

[limber hull]

But the angry youtuber said it'd be first person

[urban flax]

Maybe
People here just love to complain

[limber hull]

i can't imagine the concept of them removing your ability to see your whole dino lol

[teal chasm]

i still think the cam angles should be optional

so if theyd like to keep it as it is now they can

[limber hull]

making it optional defeats the point

[ornate moat]

understandably so tho. no community is going to be happy about changes that could or could not break the game. see the stam update. i understand the frustration to hope for a good game and then get smacked with an update and "git gud"

i feel like so so many people are absolutely nervous and panicky that theres yet another update that makes it unfun to play

and the devs dont handle it well in my opinion. theres no working together between devs and players. which sucks if youre dependant on each other

[urban flax]

The issue is, The Isle is a sci-fi survival horror game
And a lot of people bought it without reading the steam store page because they saw a dino sim
Obviously a lot of people are gonna be disappointed

[teal chasm]

theyve never handed it well, even when the game first began development. i was 15 when this game began, im 24 this year

[ornate moat]

yeah might be. but you can still get your horror scifi game without ramboing your way to it. it should 100% be a together which is why I am upset that nobody is communicating with each other. devs barely say anything. especially not to the frustrated part of their players. theres a bunch of compromises (mightve butchered that word, sorry) possible.

[urban flax]

Well look at what happens whenever they say anything

[teal chasm]

yeah im honestly surprised i havent been banned

[urban flax]

You've been misinformed about that too

[ornate moat]

but thats not a conversation. that a "yoyoyoyo we gonna do this and that" and then they dip. theres no conversation

[limber hull]

They don't ban for not liking things. That just ain't a thing that happens

[teal chasm]

sadly i can say i havent, ive watched friends be banned for speaking their mind

[urban flax]

There should have been
But the answer they got was
"NO DONT DO IT BAD DEVS STOP NEVER DO IT STOP IT IDIOTS"

[limber hull]

Devs do not care enough about you to individually ban people for not liking a specific feature.

[teal chasm]

i dont think it has to do with not liking someone lol

[urban flax]

Usually when people say that and then post the message that got them banned it's full of slurs and often includes death threats as well

[limber hull]

I never said it did

[ornate moat]

yes exactly thats the outcome of not being able to communicate like adults. everyone is tense and everyone is frustrated

[limber hull]

Given the PLETHORA of feedback in #general-feedback that has yet to be banned, it's safe to assume it isn't a bannable offense

[urban flax]

I'm not sure who you're rejecting the fault on tbh
The initial message was Dondi was doing a stream and he said "hey look at this new camera system I'm working on"
And people went haywire immediately

[ornate moat]

i know the devs arent happy about their playerbase turning against them. but the playerbase is also not happy that the devs dont want to have to do anything with them (which is my personal impression that i got)

[teal chasm]

i mean thats your experience, im sure we as two different individuals have witness different things at different times

[teal chasm]

i think its telling enough that this is even a thing though...

there will always be players who find issues with everything

but if majority of your playerbase has an issue i think its more you and not them, if that makes sense

i dont doubt the devs and dondi love this game to bits, and yes it is their game, but without the playerbase the game is nothing... the people paying for the games are the ones keeping this game going. the isle never had any crowdfunding that im aware of so...

[urban flax]

If we are to trust the numbers
The majority of the playerbase actually doesn't care at all

[ornate moat]

its the impression i got lawl

[teal chasm]

not just you

[ornate moat]

oh yeah i misread your text (english isnt my first language sorraaay)

[teal chasm]

im mean maybe, and perhaps the people who are upset are more vocal than the ones who arent, but still...

[teal chasm]

no worries!!

[urban flax]

It's always the case

No matter the community, the situation, or the scale of what's happening, it's always a vocal minority that will take themselves as a majority

[teal chasm]

look, at some point the backlash for whatever needs to be addressed. communucation is key to EVERYTHING in life

[urban flax]

I think an effort has to be made from both sides
And not just the devs

[teal chasm]

if nothing is done to address said backlash the opinions will reach the masses and that will cause more people to back behind those who complain

[urban flax]

If people can't form their own opinion and instead just follow the trend they're told to follow, then there is nothing to be done

[teal chasm]

is it better to act or to simply let things grow?

doing something is better than doing nothing

[zinc knoll]

I think we're just making the devs hate their community more (if that's even possible)

[urban flax]

No one is acting right now
People are just complaining about a system without even knowing what it's about

Look at your own situation
You posted a message in general feedback while in the belief the camera changes were first-person

[ornate moat]

i feel like a poll type of thing or discussion thread would take a ton of tension off of situations like that. could be a thread where a few devs sit down and tell the community what they planned and then listen to what people have to say to that idea. people dont really know whats going on with the camera changes and get misinformed so they get defensive. i know isle discussion channel thingy is a thing but ive never seen a dev in there while i was there.

[teal chasm]

i mean the devs

[urban flax]

Their action is to keep working on the camera to show something polished, and then test it to see how it works

[zinc knoll]

we also have to take into account that it's been like. a day

[teal chasm]

im not talking about just the camera

[zinc knoll]

I'm sure they plan to further explain but barely any time passed

[teal chasm]

there are a lot of other things that people have fault with

ptera, for example

i mained ptera for the longest time but it is literally unplayable now

[zinc knoll]

the air vents should help ptera

[teal chasm]

yes thats not their main focus but maybe its better to focus on fixing what is currently broken before adding new things and possibly breaking something further

[ornate moat]

it would be awesome if whenever theres something big (or even small) to talk about theres an announcement and people can just pop in the channel and maybe share their thoughts. maybe some admins or mods write it all together in the end and people have a clear overview on what was discussed

[teal chasm]

and im sure they will! but that doesnt change the fact i can literally not see at night AT ALL

[mellow juniper]

I think if the devs listened to their player base, there wouldn’t be a revolt in the first place. It’s not just about the camera changes, people are sick of being ignored

[teal chasm]

this!

[urban flax]

They do listen
But they aren't entitled on doing whatever random user#7193 wants them to do

[teal chasm]

it all boils down to simply listening and communicating that they ARE listening

[zinc knoll]

I'm pretty sure the devs are aware of what's going on in #general-feedback , it's up to them to act on it or not

[urban flax]

But look at the feedback channel
Nothing here is worth answering to

[mellow juniper]

According to the 50% of the community (I’d even argue more), they don’t. Every session I watch people rage quit because of the darkness, or the stam, or the rubber banding, or getting stuck, or your hit box being hit 5 feet away from you - insert problem here and it’s been talked about - but ignored.

[teal chasm]

but the thing is it isnt just random user #7193, its random user #1000, 6700, 3001, etc, etc...

[zinc knoll]

on one hand I don't like the idea of incentivising the behavior on #general-feedback but otherwise yes, it does look like ignoring

[urban flax]

Still random people
As opposed to members of the team with game design experience and who share a common vision for the game

[ornate moat]

wrong. theres so many people sharing their thoughts. you dont have to react to rando123 if they all share a common concern. you have to address it at some point

[teal chasm]

random people who pay their bills...

[ornate moat]

you cant just ignore the problem away

[mellow juniper]

Players of the isle aren’t random people lol. They are direct supporters ?

[urban flax]

So what ?

[teal chasm]

without those people who pay their bills, this game could not exist

[urban flax]

So if one hundred people suddendly come out of nowhere and start asking to add dragons, is it something they should consider ?

[teal chasm]

like i said, the isle had no crowdfunding that i know of

[urban flax]

Because it already happened

[ornate moat]

no its something they should definitely adress tho

[zinc knoll]

those people pay the devs to make the game; not pay the devs to make their game

[mellow juniper]

If it becomes big enough every other person talks about how they want dragons - then yes

[teal chasm]

thats a bit of a nonsensicle answer... thats like comparing apples and oranges. i see where youre coming from but it doesnt make sense

[mellow juniper]

This

Anyone who stands up for dondi and his team doesn’t make sense tbh

[zinc knoll]

I didn't exactly mean it like that but oof

[mellow juniper]

It’s pretty obvious how much they suck and don’t care

[teal chasm]

look i dont wanna attack them personally, im sure they are under a lot of stress to make this game dondi has been very passionate about since 2015...

[mellow juniper]

Nah dondi sucks

[urban flax]

Guys read your own messages
"I want the devs to talk to us !"
Meanwhile when talking about the devs :

[mellow juniper]

Who can sit on live stream and insult his player base, of which include children. Not to mention his personal actions

[zinc knoll]

if I was an isle dev I'd ask to not interact with the community

[mellow juniper]

We don’t want the devs to talk to us, they lack common courtesy. We want them to just do their job

[teal chasm]

but it just boils down to, for the third time, communication. they just need to talk to us more than occasioanlly, and not in the snooty, disrespectful way i feel some of the devs do speak :/

[urban flax]

And that is precisely what they're doing

[mellow juniper]

Going against the community isn’t doing their job

[urban flax]

Their job is not to please you specifically but to make the game they've been advertising and that they're wanting to make
You bought an early access game KNOWING that it may, or may not end up as YOU expected

[ornate moat]

i agree with this.

[mellow juniper]

If dondi wasn’t the way he is, we’d want to talk but who wants to be spit on like that. Just give us a game that isn’t broken and go slink back to your shadow

[urban flax]

Dondi sure isn't the corporate drone dev you're used to

[mellow juniper]

I don’t think dondi would be interested in corporate bc he doesn’t believe in HR

[zinc knoll]

on a brighter side for some people, it seems we're getting community options for stuff like this so it's not the end of the world or whatever

[teal chasm]

yes i do expect changes, how can i not when ive been watching the game change and evolve over 9 years, soon to be 10. but there are so many other games whose devs do listen. and if you tell me to then "go waste my time with them if they do better than these devs" then i dont think youre listening, or comprehending what im trying to get at

[mellow juniper]

I’m just waiting for POT to change their quest system and I’m out

That’s the only thing putting it below the isle as far as performance and experience

[zinc knoll]

was the camera the last straw or did you intend to do that for a while?

[mellow juniper]

Awhile

It’s just not fun to play anymore tbh

[zinc knoll]

fair enough, I just content myself with both

[mellow juniper]

I main raptor and PT and had to switch to carno because dillos can run down everything. Then PT got shot into hell so there really isn’t anything to do unless I want to waste 4 hours of growing just to starve from AI bugs or a broken map

[teal chasm]

i paid R200+ for this game, im allowed to complain 😭

[mellow juniper]

It feels like the only thing to do is KOS others or walk around and it’s just not going anywhere. You’d think they’d finish the play cycle before making all the unnecessary changes but for some reason that just isn’t important enough

(It’s like building a body without a heart idk why there is so much air in their heads)

[teal chasm]

im hard to get rid of

[mellow juniper]

Maybe if you take up more space you can just make the game from behind dondis eyes

[teal chasm]

i doubt id do a better job lol

[urban flax]

Many people with no game experience whatsoever believe they would

something something mandela effect

[urban flax]

Wait no it's not this one

[ornate moat]

i might drop the game tbh. its been a good run for a while but im getting upset at it so ill choose the healthier route. might check every once in a while what theyre changing but besides that i have a whole lot of other games to explore

[urban flax]

Dunning-Kruger effect

[mellow juniper]

Yea that’s not the mandala effect lol

[teal chasm]

i mean i partially sat in on game dev courses while i was studying concept art for a couple years cause we shared a class and id just sit there working and listen in hehe

[mellow juniper]

I have experience but bub is confident people talk out their ears here so who am I to say he’s wrong

[teal chasm]

im sure bub is just as frustrated about certain things as you are about others, dont have to get personal...

conflict among peers is unnecessary when things are already as divided as they are

[mellow juniper]

Nothing personal about it

[ornate moat]

i didnt even get the sentence so i cant say if it was personal or not xD

[teal chasm]

i meant to say passive aggressive lol

[mellow juniper]

That’s a matter of perspective, not my intention

[teal chasm]

cant really read tone over text lol

[ornate moat]

welcome to my world (im tone deaf or sumn)

[teal chasm]

nah not your fault being tone deaf, just generally people cant read tone over text lol

[timber coral]

Skill issue

[ornate moat]

Booooo 🦫

[keen garnet]

If this was regular early access I'd say, yeah, sure. Things will change. But 9 years of the same or similar camera and suddenly at year 10 they give us huge changes to the camera....it's too late. Everything is designed with the camera we have in mind. The combat has too many alt bites and kicks that turn our entire character around for a camera that's glued to the Dino's perspective. I'm honestly not sure it is possible to zoom that close to the dino, lock the camera to its head movements, and not cause debilitating motion sicknesses with the current systems.

I was watching someone play testing it with that close of a zoom and even I was super disoriented and starting to get dizzy.

[urban flax]

Maybe
But it'd be a shame to not even test it out
Better now than in 5 more years

[zinc knoll]

the current ingame camera with zoom = / = the system they're working on

[cyan flame]

Wouldn't it make sense, if this affects combat, that they would change that too when and where needed? And I don't think the camera would be locked to head movements, that'd be rough to say the least. And they have acknowledged the risk of motion sickness and will make sure that does not become an issue.

[keen garnet]

Better never. Unless they redesign the entire game around that new camera.

[mellow juniper]

Their chances to do this was when the game started, not 10 years later

[keen garnet]

They've already said they want to lock it to where you're dino is looking and zoom in closer

[mellow juniper]

If they’ve already started over on the game before, they’re going to just do it again until someone buys the game

[keen garnet]

Dondi even said they might have to change whole animations because they'd make the camera move too much

[cyan flame]

Ah, yeah if you're thinking rotation lock, but that's more like camera lock I think, like you can't turn the camera around, it stops at a certain point.

[keen garnet]

Why put in all that unnecessary work when the issues they say they want to fix (ambushing and attacks too easy) could be solved with making crouching quieter, making attacks for animals slower.

They already develop soooo slowly

[urban flax]

The problem with this dev team isn't that they're stupid or something like that
Cuz yes, they do have a problem in how they handle things
It's because they're doing pre-production and production at the same time
As of why they do that, I guess it's because Dondi is too much of a perfectionist
He doesn't want a functional game
He wants to make THE game
So they're constantly pumping out new ideas in a game that was designed without them, and obviously none of them work properly right away

[mellow juniper]

That’s too simple, impossible and unnecessary tasks only

[keen garnet]

This is going to take so much work and tweaking

[urban flax]

But thankfully they're persistent enough to rework them up to 5 times in a row until it works (like NV, another rework is planned as of now)

[mellow juniper]

Agreed with that statement. They’re worried about making THE game instead of a functional base game

[teal chasm]

it is but the games almost 10 years in so im sure another 10 years will be nothing

[urban flax]

It just takes a lot of time... because that's not how you do a game normally
But since the other option would be to stop working on the game entirely for about one year, going back to the drawing board and then beginning to update again, I can understand why they're doing that

[teal chasm]

i would prefer they go on hiatus for a year and go back to the drawing board than churn out occasionally broken mechanics...

[zinc knoll]

I think most of the community would become impatient again

[teal chasm]

quality over quantity, and good things take time

[urban flax]

Yeah
But people start complaining from the lack of content 2 days after an update

[teal chasm]

they are impatient regardless

[zinc knoll]

true

[teal chasm]

i mean is it a lack of content or a lack of hotfixes to fix things that break gameplay?

[stable blaze]

A lack of hotfixes would definitely hit hard honestly. There are some issues that could have been fixed immediately after the update is released, but instead of doing a hotfix like I'd think other games that are in early access would do (or even games out of early access!), they make us wait until the next big update that could be months out from now

[urban flax]

Now they've changed that
They're still taking their sweet time to fix some things, but at least now they're putting hotfixes in-between major content updates

Which is actually something the community has been asking for

[teal chasm]

which is appreciated

[limber hull]

true lol

or more specifically, a lack of content they personally wanted

[stable blaze]

Mm, I see that for the previous update version before hordetesting for the current stuff happened. Kinda wish they'd address certain other issues, like the whole animation bite cooldown thing for a couple playables being horrendous. You would think that could also be a very quick fix, but apparently not

[limber hull]

balance changes? why not dino?
dino? why not balance changes?

[urban flax]

Well it requires redoing their animations

[stable blaze]

Absolutely not, unless they lost the animation files, all they would have to do is snip out some deadspace in the animations, or just tweak said animations. Latter would take a bit longer but not that much longer

[mellow juniper]

Does your username imply you hate the camera change or that you’re trolling the review bombers?

[urban flax]

both

[zinc knoll]

wait people are review bombing?

[stable blaze]

I mean, if they want to redo the animation that is up to them, but the work for it isn't necessary if I'm understanding the issue correctly

[timber coral]

Judging from what I've seen I wouldn't be surprised honestly, it's almost as bad as the mojang situation

[mellow juniper]

https://www.reddit.com/r/theisle/s/vsaMPk1FM8

Idk if I’m allowed to post links here??

[urban flax]

The omni isn't standing perfectly still in the last part of its bite animation
It's very slowly returning to its normal pose, changing that requires some work
Not a huge amount, but eh
Animating something always takes longer than expected

[limber hull]

i love the fact that this is his second attempt to start a strike

[timber coral]

It's honestly sad that people can be so corroded by hatred that they do this

[urban flax]

For me, who feeds on spite, this person is an indigestion

[zinc knoll]

I didn't think I could be so disappointed in this community

[timber coral]

Same honestly, it's a lot more toxic than I had anticipated

[mellow juniper]

Apparently they are reviewing steam but I haven’t looked to see

[stable blaze]

Oh it's bad on steam

[timber coral]

I've said this before but being toxic toward something you love/enjoy will NOT make things better, quite the opposite

[urban flax]

I find it hilarious how the game is being review-bombed for... actually nothing

There hasn't been an update or anything
And people are already getting mad

[timber coral]

I could be naive for this or maybe I'm too nice but there's absolutely no reason to do such things

[stable blaze]

I don't know why the possible camera changes would be the straw that broke the camera's back, but I can tell this whole thing has probably been brewing for a while

I mean I can see why for some people's cases, but still

[urban flax]

This game has had a group of very dedicated haters for a very long time

[timber coral]

The community is constantly brewing somethin and it ain't just moonshine

[limber hull]

the people who hate this game are more dedicated than the people who love it

[mellow juniper]

If we were considering a shorter time frame, I’d agree, but after 10 years I think the frustrations are valid

[urban flax]

Back when I joined this Discord, I was greeted with more than unsavory gossip about the devs and the game

[mellow juniper]

I had to learn via Reddit

[urban flax]

So it explains why you're like that now

[limber hull]

they decided to shift focus from a game that was going nowhere but downwards to an ENTIRELY new project.

[mellow juniper]

Like what? Enlightened on the isle gossip?

[stable blaze]

Despite all the things I disagree with, I don't hate the game. Not in that sort of fashion anyway. I'm passionate for it to be a good game, so seeing them make questionable decisions can be a little frustrating at times, but overall it's not worth the energy to go through with review bombing the heck out of the game on steam

[urban flax]

precisely

[timber coral]

They might be and voicing frustration is valid, but why be so goddamn toxic about it?

[zinc knoll]

the mature thing to do if you hate the game that much is to drop out

[timber coral]

100% agreed

[mellow juniper]

Well that doesn’t make me anything besides in the know, so idk what you mean ig

[limber hull]

reddit basically is a circlejerk of "we all hate this game let's hate it more"

[mellow juniper]

There are 2 subs for it I think

[timber coral]

Which is precisely why I avoid reddit in general

[limber hull]

its actually bizarre

the entire subreddit is built to deject any positive talk about the game's development

[timber coral]

It's not the place to get information without slurs or rage in it

[limber hull]

you HAVE to hate it, or you're shunned

[teal chasm]

yeah my relationship w the isle is like an emotionally abusive relationship. i love them, and i want to see them do well and grow but i am disrespected and hurt by them more often than not

[mellow juniper]

I haven’t had that experience

[timber coral]

"I can fix them" type of vibe lol

[stable blaze]

pfff

[teal chasm]

literally 🥲

[mellow juniper]

I only check the discord for update info, it feels like it’s the same people here

That is wrong, I’ve only recently checked it for updates, I’ve hopped into this convo like 4-5 times now

[teal chasm]

yeah im rarely in chat, im just bored today

[zinc knoll]

that is usually what I do but I decided to look about the camera info and now here I am

[mellow juniper]

Same

[limber hull]

this entire cam situation is genuinely fascinating to me

its a mechanic where

• it isnt done
• there is work being done on ALL of the main issues
• screenshots show you being able to see the dinos body perfectly fine
• it isn't first person

and yet everyone has decided to hate it because a VERY early view showed a potentially first person view which Dondi said "do not take as final"

[mellow juniper]

People are just frustrated there is a list of other things to do and then he randomly gets on with an idea no body needed or wanted

[zinc knoll]

if it's broken it won't make it in, that's what it's been said to us over and over again

[mellow juniper]

It’s just unnecessary work when it should be going elsewhere

[timber coral]

Take a swig of tea and be patient ig

[urban flax]

Ok but why are people expecting Dondi to fix bugs or add new dinos
That's not his job

[limber hull]

because the creative director has to do what i say his role is

[zinc knoll]

I'm not particulary concerned with the camera taking up dev time, just sit back and relax

[limber hull]

its almost like development isnt focused on one thing as a time

source: actually working on a game in a team

[mellow juniper]

There should be a complete game loop before unnecessary things like camera or stam mountains

[limber hull]

he wants to kill the game!

[zinc knoll]

stam mountains are important for pteras though, I don't get what you mean

[limber hull]

the stam is fine atm imho

[stable blaze]

Some people are still under the impression that it is near-first-person, unfortunately. It's not! And honestly, this is an unpopular opinion, but the camera isn't that bad from what I saw in those recent shots, I wouldn't be upset seeing those in game at some point. I do hope they continue to prioritize more important issues first before the camera however, that is currently my main concern, that they could start ignoring matters like the bite cooldown issue in some creatures or other bugs/oversights. I doubt they'd do that though? At least I'd like to have some faith in them about that

[mellow juniper]

If stam was optimized it wouldn’t be talked about

[limber hull]

the stam is literally fine

[urban flax]

This is where you're wrong

[mellow juniper]

An opinion can’t be wrong, unfortunately for you

[urban flax]

We're still getting people asking to nerf stego regularly

[mellow juniper]

I’ve changed my gaming style so the stam doesn’t effect my game play

[limber hull]

That's... good?

[mellow juniper]

But as PT, it’s a gliding simulation

[limber hull]

You're acting as if these things are negatives

But that's kinda the intention of the system

[zinc knoll]

pteras are supposed to have "bad" stam, dondi has explained why (exploiting reasons)

[mellow juniper]

I think stam for everything else is pretty balanced, aside from warm up time

PT is spectator mode so thinking it can be exploited is strange. If it was made into a better playable it would be understandable

[cyan flame]

Can always just scout for others, don't need to attack yourself

[limber hull]

compare these two. The only difference is the camera is focused on the omni's head, rather than the centre of omni's body. You actually can see MORE with the new cam system with the new cam than old

I went on the live branch to prove this fact

It's only slightly zoomed in. Any regular player literally could barely tell the difference

[zinc knoll]

having a little guy harass you infinitely and you not be able to do anything (mostly) isn't exactly fun

[mellow juniper]

Idk, motion sickness is dripping from that screenshot

[urban flax]

LOL

[limber hull]

which one? because by that logic, both cause motion sickness

i'll sprint around atm and tell you if i get motion sick

[stable blaze]

I think motion sickness would only really be an issue if the camera movement was locked to head movement, but supposedly they don't have it locked to the head, so it won't bob around

[zinc knoll]

as long as they don't do head bop it should be fine ish

[limber hull]

not yet

[zinc knoll]

if they do, I agree that head bop should be an option

[urban flax]

Gotta agree with that, a camera that is actually locked to the head would be horrible
Especially on things like carno
Imagine when charging xD

[stable blaze]

oogh

The funny feeling

[mellow juniper]

The thing that would cause me to get sick is having the Dino taking up so much of the screen. Right now, there is equal ground to moving Dino’s. With the camera, there is more moving Dino which makes the motion way worse

[limber hull]

they actively said that the new cam will not bob because that will suck

[zinc knoll]

nice

[timber coral]

Imagine running w that on a baby raptor or troodon

Earthquake

[stable blaze]

I don't know how much galli's head bobs around, but...

[zinc knoll]

I can't exactly say much about this, dunno how motion sickness works. I think it's best to wait for testing on that front

[timber coral]

Realistically you wouldn't think it'd bob at all since chickens have a perfect head balance

[urban flax]

I think I remember playing a game that had that kind of cam
And it was extremely funny

[zinc knoll]

we know that they're testing for motion sickness, or at least that's what I heard

[limber hull]

my testing has lead to unexpected results

i fell

the raptor died

[timber coral]

F

[mellow juniper]

Rip

[urban flax]

Oh I remember
It was besiege
Pinned a cam to a very fast and wobbly machine
It truly was an experience

[urban flax]

Of motion sickness ?

[limber hull]

of gravity

[timber coral]

PFFFF

[timber coral]

Bro got shook too hard

[mellow juniper]

I’m pretty sure gravity is at least 5x heavier in the isle

[urban flax]

It's moreso that dinos fall like they're full of air but take realistic damage

They glide

[mellow juniper]

Right

[stone geode]

Thoughts on my #general-feedback

[mellow juniper]

On the money

[stone geode]

I make consistently based takes

[zinc knoll]

one of the few camera feedback messages I respect

but I think it's slightly misinformed, they aren't doing this for realism

or at least that's what I thought

[mellow juniper]

That’s the whole reason they’re doing it

[limber hull]

wrong

it is not being done for realism

[mellow juniper]

Enlighten me pls

[zinc knoll]

it's being done for gameplay I'm pretty sure

[limber hull]

^

[zinc knoll]

I wish I had that message dondi sent with the camera comparisons

[stone geode]

Making gameplay worse?

[zinc knoll]

he explained it really well

[zinc knoll]

I understand people's concerns but how can you know it will make gameplay worse

[stone geode]

Its just gonna make camping somewhere and growing increase, as if camera lock didn't increase it already

Why go out after eating if being ambushed is gonna be extremely easy

[keen garnet]

Not to mention having a blind spot at your tail totally doesn't encourage a resurge in tail riding

Not saying that would go well for someone trying to tail ride a teno buuuut

[mellow juniper]

I also worked on the new camera system that some of you might have seen already as a concept. The plan is to bring the player’s perspective closer to that of the dinosaur and provide a better sense of scale.

I would argue it is for realism and gameplay

[frigid tide]

Also you just see less.

[zinc knoll]

are you typing what dondi said or smth else, I'm confused

[stone geode]

I understand that but going of the screenshots and so on, I can infer it will make pvp worse.

[mellow juniper]

Quote from Ariel

[zinc knoll]

I wasn't aware ariel talked about it

[keen garnet]

Oh it will make pvp worse 100% unless they get it perfect and we all know they will not. At the very least not on the first try

Which...fair

[stone geode]

I heard people saying camera lock wasn't going to be that bad

I was one of the people saying it was going to increase ambushes and afk growing

and it did

[zinc knoll]

eating drinking camera lock you mean?

[stone geode]

Yes

It caused more people hiding while growing

Because ambushing became so much easier.

[zinc knoll]

if they tweak the audio I think ambushes could be alright, I've heard plenty of people saying footsteps are way too quiet which I agree with

[stone geode]

Also while the devs may not being doing it soley for realism, it is a reason.

[zinc knoll]

I really doubt it is a reason, considering that ariel said that they "would argue that" it is

sounds like personal interpretation

[stone geode]

And I searched up the word realism in the search bar and almost every one defending the change seems to think its SOLEY about realism (ik its not but it shows where some of the communites head are at)

[cyan flame]

Didn't they say something about the reasons in the devblog?

[mellow juniper]

Making a more realistic scale = realism idk where the confusion is

[zinc knoll]

just because something aligns with realism doesn't mean it was done for realism

[mellow juniper]

If you are aligning something realistically then realms is a purpose

Realism*

[neat beacon]

this immersion would be fine and all if precious time wasn’t at risk of being lost from a second of not paying attention when falling down a cliff, hackers, de sync, ping issues, etc, otherwise it just makes the game more of a waste of time if you can’t properly fight off anything attempting to kill you

[zinc knoll]

no, I could make it so you have to reload a gun for balancing and gameplay purposes

[stone geode]

"We can bring the perspective in even more than initially anticipated so we can really slip you into the skin of your animal. Your feet are going to be touching the ground now which should create a much more immersive experience."

In the devblog

[mellow juniper]

Sounds like a jump towards realism to me

[zinc knoll]

yes, immersion isn't realism

it can be, but it isn't

[mellow juniper]

We disagree

[zinc knoll]

fair enough

[neat beacon]

If it was supposed to be realistic herbivores should be able to have a 360 camera even when drinking. Prey eyes

[mellow juniper]

I think being “immersed” in your Dino doesn’t align with having a good gaming experience, which it seems is the disconnect for devs

A good touch, but shouldn’t be a priority as of now imo

[stone geode]

Do you guys notice how selective realism is. Sometimes its "this game is not a realisitc game so not this realisitc mechanic" and sometimes "We are adding this realisitic mechanic for the sake of realism"

[zinc knoll]

wdym, most people play the isle for immersion

I play the isle for immersion

unless I'm mistaken and everyone prefers deathmatch

[stone geode]

In the opinion of most people I talk to, immersion is like a spice.

The main course is fun and immersion is a spice that adds flavor and a bit more enjoyment.

[mellow juniper]

How can we immerse ourselves when we get stuck in a faulty map? If you want immersion, you gotta cross your T and dot your I’s before you start doing unnecessary things

[limber hull]

the reason east plains is such a hotspot is for the deathmatch experience

[mellow juniper]

Well said

[limber hull]

unfortunately

[zinc knoll]

oh true

[limber hull]

i wish it wasn't, but it is

[frigid tide]

I think it's clear where their priorities lie

[neat beacon]

I feel like this change would be neither realistic nor immersive, animals don’t have human vision. This camera seems to lack any peripheral vision, they want to make Dino vision into human vision

[frigid tide]

Can't say any more than that though

[jovial hazel]

After exploring the map for a few days I honestly think it's because East and Northeast are so much easier to traverse. A large portion of the rest of the map I feel like you are searching for ways to get through as much as you are moving forward.

[limber hull]

why not lol

[mellow juniper]

Might get banned

[neat beacon]

I don’t want to feel like I’m playing a human in a Dino body

[limber hull]

unlikely

[stone geode]

For example:

A bit of pepper on a steak is good and adds some enjoyment, but if I add to much it becomes overwhelming and makes it taste worse.

That is what realism is for most people in the isle, a spice that shouldn't be overwhelming the fun

[limber hull]

they don't ban people for criticism

[mellow juniper]

They do

[limber hull]

they really don't

[frigid tide]

It's been happening

[limber hull]

read general feedback for 10 seconds

there's a whole lot of not banned people criticising

[zinc knoll]

I can't really argue this much more since I don't agree that this change is for realism

they ban people for spreading misinformation, which a lot of people are

[mellow juniper]

Personal Feedback isn’t misinformation

[stone geode]

His post disapeared

[mellow juniper]

Something about nv

[stone geode]

Anyone else see that?

[timber coral]

Yep

[stone geode]

lol

[neat beacon]

Anyways

[mellow juniper]

I wrote feedback and decided to delete it and a mod took the trouble to personally tag me so I could further explain bc they didn’t like my comment

[cyan flame]

To be fair, the amount would vary with the person. And I'd make a distinction between realism, accuracy, and immersion honestly. Those are not the same things.

[mellow juniper]

Which I thought was really weird

[stone geode]

“to what extent would realism continue to add more to the player’s experience than take away from the players experience and take development time and resources”

Found this on the comments on a Gaben video talking about why realism, isn't fun in soley by itself and I think it sums up my thoughts,

The video is here btw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGpFEv1-mAo&t=1

[cyan flame]

I think a fair few bans might have happened due to people referring to the new camera as first person, when it was stated that it is not.

[timid ridge]

IM MOT SAYING THIS MODS!! DO NOT BAN ME! MAKE ME A TICKET AND TELL ME ITS NOT ALLOWED if anything. Tyvm I’m scared

The qoute:

"The enjoyment most people get from this game is watching their dino grow gradually. I also enjoy seeing its skin colors. I understand the horror aspect of a first person view of the dinosaur, but that is usually only translates well with humans. It would make both sides of the spectrum satisfied if we could switch back and forth from 1st and 3rd person."

Banned for misinformation

[neat beacon]

I still don’t understand dondi’s comment saying it’s difficult to ambush. A carno having trouble fighting a stego is because they’re in massively different weight classes. In truth, stego and dieno were added WAY too early to be balanced. No Dino on the current roster besides dieno should feasibly kill a stego, which dieno has no problem with. Exception being Utah packs

[stone geode]

I better term would be

Functionally first person (with how zoomed in)

[zinc knoll]

I will admit I don't understand the ambush comment either

[cyan flame]

Well, that would be an example, no?

[mellow juniper]

People can be toxic, I think most bans are reasonable but as of lately, they’re giving “don’t disagree” vibes

[cyan flame]

It might be, I was only trying to point out that some of the feedback might have contained that description and that is what caused the ban, not the feedback of "I don't like this change" or similar

[timid ridge]

Yeah they got banned for misinformation. They were very scared so tried their hardest to be kind. They’re crying rn.

[zinc knoll]

considering everything that's happening I think it's very natural that it looks like that (the review bombing, feedback chat, people in general)

[cyan flame]

But people might confuse that with "it's the criticism that got me banned" when it's, not quite that

[stone geode]

I don't think I've seen a proposed Dev CHANGE ever be this universally disliked.

I told people in the isle game about it who never joined the Discord and they dislike it too.

[cyan flame]

I... don't really know what you want me to say to that.

[neat beacon]

I feel like the people who are liking it are pretending to for discord engagement (joking .

[timid ridge]

You don’t need to ❤️

[zinc knoll]

I think it could be fun and people are silly

[frigid tide]

I still think it should be a toggle

[timid ridge]

I would like to try it and see if I like the camera before I make a a judge

[neat beacon]

The only change I’d like is looking up but as I said yesterday just add what BoB did. Hold ALT to look up and that’s it ??

[stone geode]

I always notice that when a dev makes a change

ITS ALWAYS the same people defending it.

Not naming names, but you know who you are.

[zinc knoll]

can you explain why

[timid ridge]

Idk how it would be like~

[neat beacon]

They should add discord premium where you get money if people reply to your messages

[mellow juniper]

Because everyone has different preferences

[timber coral]

Preference I'd say for myself, but I'll wait till I actually stand behind that

[zinc knoll]

ok, what do you think people will prefer, advantages or disadvantages?

[frigid tide]

The new camera is obviously controversial, but they clearly want to add it, so just make it a toggle so those that don't like don't have to use it?

[zinc knoll]

even if you like the new camera, you will not use it because you'll be at disadvantage

which is why I prefer community server option

[timid ridge]

Oh never thought of that!

[timber coral]

Imma eat noodles

[stone geode]

Also, I feel like the current camera is a NON issue.

I saw no one before the change saying,

"I wish the devs would make a FUNCTIONALLY first person camera so that I can get ambushed harder"

[cyan flame]

Could have sworn I saw someone mention something about it being an option for unofficials

[stone geode]

Atleast not a majority

[zinc knoll]

I'm pretty sure the devs aren't doing this (this change in particular) for the community

[cyan flame]

But I could be wrong there, but it would make sense if they allow unofficials to choose camera option, if it's doable, since unofficials are getting global chat back and all that

[zinc knoll]

otherwise we wouldn't be here

[neat beacon]

why are they making a game then

if not for the consumer

[frigid tide]

For themselves?

[cyan flame]

That's because you're not thinking in terms of what the devs are aiming for. It's not a matter of "no one asked for this", it's a matter of "does this work the way we intend it to do".

[zinc knoll]

when you make a game you're at least partially doing it for yourself

[timid ridge]

Eeek you should rephrase that because they are making it for consumer and they might see that as misinformation

[stone geode]

Great, lol.

[timid ridge]

But I get you for real :p

[mellow juniper]

They do it for themselves

[frigid tide]

Yeah, not trying to misinform

[zinc knoll]

I see what you mean, but yeah I really mean that this change isn't because the community asked for it. it's just a fact

[timid ridge]

Oh I know! My friend wasn’t either but got banned you don’t know if you’ll be that random one

[frigid tide]

Ah... THAT subreddit

[stone geode]

No I mean, no one asked for a change and no one WANTED a change. No one wants this, and it seems that every time a change is not wanted the devs add it harder

[limber hull]

it still won't be, because that will create unfair advantage scenarios

[cyan flame]

And yes, the Isle is more of a passion project, in some ways, it's a "fangame", I mean, we have JP critters, it's somewhat clear as to what some of the inspiration is

[limber hull]

and thats how you're supposed to design a game

[cyan flame]

Could have it as a choice on unofficials

[zinc knoll]

what's the point of making a game if the end result isn't something you like (the lead dev, I mean)

[limber hull]

designing a game for a community is how you get flops like Skull and Crossbones

[frigid tide]

The best compromise is to have is a choice for officials

[mellow juniper]

It’s a shame the game is a pet project for some entitled dude vs a kickstarter

[cyan flame]

The devs wanted it. Sure, none of us asked for it, but that wasn't my point. The point was that you need to understand the changes from a "this is what I want my game to be like, as the creator".

[limber hull]

game made purely to satisfy a market demand, not because a creative mind wanted to play such a game, and it shows

[cyan flame]

To be fair, without that, we might not have had the genre at all xD

[stone geode]

I remember this quote

" Even if you personally want something you must think of the consumer, the consumer is the who buys the game and chooses whether to buy it or not"

[zinc knoll]

indeed, I really wish that would calm people down but seems like nobody cares lmao

[frigid tide]

And how is the genre doing right now?

[mellow juniper]

The genre exists without dondi, it’s just a shame dondi has the best idea but consistently ruins it

[neat beacon]

At a point you do have to do some things for the community you foster when you make a game. We are the ones keeping the money flowing and alive

[cyan flame]

Well, it does now yes

[stone geode]

If every company in the world did something they personally wanted.....

They would have no company

[cyan flame]

... Bad, because every single dino game has issues ^^

[zinc knoll]

I have the money = I decide what happens to the game, obviously

[neat beacon]

Completely disregarding your community is like … okay but there will be negative reviews

[frigid tide]

Exactly.

It's pretty much dead before it started

[limber hull]

as a consumer and a game designer, i can tell the difference between a game of passion, and a game based on market demand

[mellow juniper]

To use the same analogy as our beloved dev, it’s like starting a restaurant because I love cooking MY recipes. It sure isn’t gonna matter when my customers don’t like my recipes

[zinc knoll]

so clearly, you must cave in and make what people want and stop enjoying your job

[mellow juniper]

If this was just for dondi, it should be a private game on his own desktop

[limber hull]

the customers demand italian. I run a japanese restraunt. Am I expected to start learning to cook italian?

[frigid tide]

Someone on this same channel use a similar analogy against the change.

All it did was just make me hungry

[cyan flame]

Not if you're not reliant on, or aiming to serve others. Maybe if you think of it like "I make food, people come by and pay me to eat, because they like it. But I am making the food I like because I want to make the food, not because people come by to pay me. That's an added bonus". If that makes some sense?

[mellow juniper]

You run an Italian restaurant but when customers eat your noodles, they aren’t cooked because that’s how you prefer them.

[cyan flame]

You're expecting that everyone is making things purely for the purpose of selling it to others, and that may not always be true

[mellow juniper]

Then the game shouldn’t be publicly available for purchase if the community doesn’t matter

If it’s his recipes and his restaurant and his dream, he shouldn’t take money from others

[zinc knoll]

it's not that the community doesn't matter, it's that the community doesn't get the final say on everything like people want it to

[cyan flame]

But what if you want to enjoy what currently is offered?

[mellow juniper]

The community doesn’t really get a say

[stone geode]

Your being bad faith. Your misrepresenting my argument by making it sound unreasonable.

my argument is

Consumer buys game=should have not all but some influence on decisions

Also

90% of consumers dislike change=change should be reconsidered

[mellow juniper]

I only have 250 hours and that became clear in the first update I experienced

[frigid tide]

The isle is surprisingly fun when you don't have people screaming in your ear that it sucks

That's why I unsubbed from the fan-reddit

All they do is complain

[zinc knoll]

thing is, 95% of consumers don't know what they're talking about nor have experienced it

[mellow juniper]

Meeting other people is what makes the game fun for myself

[stone geode]

My argument is not

BuY gAme=Tell waT tO do

[frigid tide]

The thing people don't understand is that it's still in development

[mellow juniper]

It’s like buying a stock. The community has financially helped the game. Therefore, they have a say.

[zinc knoll]

a good % of consumers are saying things because youtuber man said 'it le bad' therefore it is

[cyan flame]

It can be, I'm currently on break because DRG is just too much fun. And because I need a better laptop for Evrima if I want to get a reasonable experience (working on fixing that). But my point of the argument was that I don't see anything wrong with offering something, saying you can pay to experience it, and still point out that you're not going to keep getting this experience because it's not the final product. Isn't that kind of what early access tends to mean.

[mellow juniper]

And shouldn’t be. That’s no longer an excuse

[cyan flame]

I... don't think that's a good comparison, honestly

[stone geode]

Oh ok

So, There is a sandwhich make with rotten meat

Since I am not a chef I cannot infer the sandwhich is not good

See how that argument is not good

[neat beacon]

It is fundamentally bad.

[zinc knoll]

I'm not saying you can't know I'm saying most people don't

[mellow juniper]

Everyone is using different analogies but none will work bc everyone has different opinions

[cyan flame]

And let's be honest, even if the game had been free, people would still complain if things changed

[mellow juniper]

If it was free, no one would get a say and discord could just be shut down

[neat beacon]

If it was free there would be no game

[mellow juniper]

Exactly lol

[frigid tide]

All communities complain

[zinc knoll]

I'm not sure how to add further to this convo ngl

[frigid tide]

Take the minecraft community for example, no matter what mojang adds they always complain about it

[zinc knoll]

anyone have different arguments or are we gonna keep repeating

[cyan flame]

Well, it depends on how the funding looked like, you could absolutely have enough to make a game without any player funding via buying it in early access

[frigid tide]

Not really. I'm probably gonna get off soon

Just kinda bored atm

[stone geode]

No, If a dev adds a gun to a game that is practically useless or a gun that is so OP that its not fair, INTENTIONALLY

I cannot critisize since I am not a dev

It seems people don't know a thing called common sense and inferring

I can use my common sense and knowledge of games to infer, this change is bad

[neat beacon]

This camera change can go through but there will be a loss of players in the end

[cyan flame]

Kind of agree, we're not really getting anywhere, and your approach to this seems to come down entirely to what you thought when you bought the game in the first place

[mellow juniper]

It’s not about repeating, it’s about not being reciprocating, everyone wants to be right when in reality there is truth to everyone’s argument

[cyan flame]

Maybe there will be, maybe there won't. It was the same for prior changes, so we'll see.

[neat beacon]

If the devs won’t listen to the community it will go nowhere so like, we can argue and explore all day but they don’t want to listen as it looks

[stone geode]

Also, Appeal to Authority Logical Fallacy

[zinc knoll]

is that a thing I can google

[stone geode]

"An appeal to authority fallacy is a logical error of saying a claim is true because an authority figure made it or believes it"

[neat beacon]

Really unsure on this one, dondi has been workshopping it for quite a while and has only spoke about it when it’s seems pretty set in place

[stone geode]

Authority figure being the Devs

[zinc knoll]

I'm confused about how that's relevant

[stone geode]

Your using a fallacious argument

[zinc knoll]

I am? the devs are the only ones who have access to the system rn and seemingly can play it (?)

[mellow juniper]

Have the devs ever played their game publicly? Real question

[zinc knoll]

the pov of someone who only has seen screenshots vs someone who plays with the system is bound to be different

[mellow juniper]

I would pay cold cash to watch a stream

[stone geode]

No, you said this:

You are implying that the community has no right to make the argument that it is bad because they are not DEVS and have not "expeirienced it" The it being GAME DEVELOPMENT

[neat beacon]

I feel the camera change will still be useless however . Like.. how will it work with ptera’s flying / perch, how is dieno going to SEE out of the WATER comfortably?? (I know about the passive/scent it has to see ripples, but still) how will jumping work ? How is Herra going to see anything below it? People with motion sickness or possible disabilities that may make the game harder for them to play?

[zinc knoll]

that's not what I'm implying, I'm sorry that it seems that way though

[stone geode]

Though it is true you misrepresented my argument with the "I have the money = I decide what happens to the game, obviously" which i did not say

[zinc knoll]

yes, because I also misunderstood it

[cyan flame]

Ah, well true, I do think we're getting the changes, unless they can't make it work on every critter and/or fix motion sickness issues. But I am not sure that it will lead to such a drop in playerbase as people think. Because the competition is still not very good, and also offers different things. And for all the modding I've seen in PoT, I still haven't quite found a server or style that suits me, but I could just be missing the mark on that one for now to be fair.

[zinc knoll]

I'm not exactly the brightest, I don't know what to tell you

[mellow juniper]

Lmfao best response comment I’ve ever read

[zinc knoll]

islecord make brain go melt

[stone geode]

Fair enough, its just usually when I argue in the isle cord, people are INCREDIBLEY bad faith, its actually insane how common it is

[mellow juniper]

writes it down to use later

[neat beacon]

BoB and PoT will easily take players, I’ll tell you. If I’m wasting my life after working hours before on a game that I can lose everything I worked towards by being one-shotted I’m playing a game which supports my progress better

[mellow juniper]

I’m just waiting for pot questing system to be changed

[stone geode]

I put my money on BoB. PoT is to boring for isle players, BoB is just batshit insane sometimes

[cyan flame]

Maybe. Last I heard BoB has issues, PoT has promise but there's issues there too. And true, hardcore survival, dino or not, isn't for everyone.

[zinc knoll]

BoB doesn't feel good to play right now. I hate the movement

[mellow juniper]

Bob looks like an iPhone game, I can’t bring myself to try it add

Dx *

[zinc knoll]

but I like the other stuff about it, maybe sometime I can get used to it

[neat beacon]

BoB looks good on my graphics idk what settings you have

[crude girder]

Is it a bad thing for people to play the game that fits their preferences best?

[frigid tide]

As someone who tried getting into BOB, it's just too tedious.

[mellow juniper]

I haven’t played it just watched videos. I don’t like how it looks

[cyan flame]

Not at all

[stone geode]

https://tenor.com/view/beasts-of-bermuda-bo-b-dinosaur-video-game-gif-24647454

[zinc knoll]

totally fine, I just couldn't get into it myself sadly

[neat beacon]

I like all 3 dinosaur games so I’m pretty biased and can move between them all freely

[crude girder]

Cause at the end of the day, The Isle isn’t going for mainstream appeal, so if we get a change that makes people go play another game they find better, I don’t see why that would be a bad thing

[mellow juniper]

I’m an animal sim lover all the way tbh I’ve been keeping my eye on primal earth

I need another isle that isn’t the isle

[zinc knoll]

frankly I'm fine with people leaving the game and doing other things, I just don't understand it being a threat and review bombing

[cyan flame]

Same, I've enjoyed PoT quite a bit, but it's still lacking. BoB I never cared much for. Isle still remains the best, though I would have given Prior Extinction a try if it wasn't well, "grindy" to say the least

[crude girder]

Benefits them because more players, benefits us because now we don’t have people trying to turn the game into something it isn’t trying to be, same as when there were people trying to make the game a death match and that eventually led to BoBs creation

[neat beacon]

It’s that we want to enjoy the game we spent money on. I spent money on this game and want to play it comfortably. While I don’t have major motion sickness issues if I get exhausted playing this game, why should other people buy it?

[cyan flame]

I need a play as critter game where you can be a snake. And yes, I know that's not very likely to ever happen, because snakes don't work well in games like these, but I can still hope.

[stone geode]

Personally games like Helldivers have sucked in my gaming time, still love the isle it made a good portion of my childhood (gamingbeaver vids).
Btw any Democracy lovers in the chat

[neat beacon]

I feel leaving a bad review if you don’t enjoy the game is in someone’s right, people don’t shame others for leaving bad reviews elsewhere like a restaurant

[cyan flame]

But tailriding is the best combat ever!

[zinc knoll]

it's ok I'm mostly talking about the stuff on reddit

[frigid tide]

Tailriding is an issue for all dino games

[stone geode]

Isle reddit is the most doomer place in the community

[mellow juniper]

I could be wrong but I think Primal Horizon is working on a snake playable

[frigid tide]

I haven't seen a single good thing from reddit

[neat beacon]

That’s still their right to leave a bad review, even in review bombing. They paid money for the isle and they can say a few words on it.

[cyan flame]

It's meant to work like that in BoB

[frigid tide]

All the reddit side of the isle does is complain. And it's very tiring

[zinc knoll]

yeah but I find review bombing specifically a bit childish, it's not "eh I disliked it, gonna do something else". it's "change this now or I keep review bombing"

[crude girder]

They shouldn’t buy it if they don’t or won’t enjoy the game. As for buying the game and it turning out different than you expected, that is the danger with buying a game in early access, even one that’s been in as long as The Isle. There’s always the risk that the design changes radically between initial release and version 1.0. That doesn’t mean you can’t or shouldn’t leave feedback, but it’s also not unreasonable that the early version you enjoyed in the past won’t have much in common with the intended final release

[cyan flame]

:D I'll go have a look when we're all done talking here then!

[stone geode]

I see alot of people right of negative reviews as "review bombing"

Some of them have good points and I can see where their coming from

[frigid tide]

And if something that they don't like is added AFTER they buy it?

[zinc knoll]

we agreed to purchase a changing game

[mellow juniper]

Check out that one and “the hunted” they’re both really new but one has a snake playable they’re working on im pretty sure

[crude girder]

Ultimately, there’s a point where it’s just not worth trying to change something into something else, and at 20 usd, that is a pretty low cost to go “that sucks, anyway” but that’s just me

[neat beacon]

Most people have had this game for up to years. This change is fundamentally horrible to add and adds nothing to realism nor immersion. Theyre quite literally making dinosaurs see like humans instead of allowing a free view of movement that most animals should. I shouldn’t have to go from camera A to C on my dinosaur to be able to look to the right of my behind rather than having a free camera.

[crude girder]

Hence the “Early Access” thing I mentioned, the game should be expected to change significantly until 1.0 and as such, it’s generally a bad idea to get too attached to the state of a game before it has completed its development, imo

[jovial hazel]

That is not even the proposed change.

[neat beacon]

If you really want immersion and or realism, make the vision beyond the animal’s binocular blurry

[zinc knoll]

I have a friend that refuses to purchase early access games for literally this reason

[neat beacon]

That’s how the stegosaurus cameras looked in full

[stone geode]

to be fair the game has been in EA a while, so its fair people who have had it for say 2 years., would get annoyed

[crude girder]

That’s not relevant to what I was saying, but pop off. If the change is something you don’t like, you don’t really have an options beyond leave feedback and wait, or go play a game that better caters to you. If the change sticks around, I’d personally go play another game, since not every early access game turns into something I want to keep playing

[frigid tide]

I just want to see a video of someone going through the map with the new camera

[zinc knoll]

same

[frigid tide]

By going through I mean walking through, not actually falling through the map

[crude girder]

I know, but I did note that being in Early Access for a long time isn’t the same as being fully released. It’s annoying to wait for so long, but jumping the gun is still jumping the gun there

[limber hull]

dondi often mocks people who are unable to kill his dryo lol

[cyan flame]

The fact that you had to clarify that is funny to me xD

[frigid tide]

That's certainly something

[neat beacon]

Then im unsure why any of us are here if you're just going to say "go play another game," we want to leave feedback.

[crude girder]

As someone who has had the game since 2015, I’m annoyed by quite a lot with it, but my expectation going in was “I can play as a hadrosaur” so I’m not fussed lol. For other people with higher expectations I can see why they’d demand change or leave, but I don’t see why them leaving would be a bad thing for them

[mellow juniper]

Typical dondi behavior

[limber hull]

its pretty funny. He advertises his position, demands the people to find and kill him, then laughs as he breaks free of the killsquad he assembled lol

[frigid tide]

What does he do if he is killed?

[cyan flame]

I think the point is that you can, and should leave feedback when you feel. But it doesn't mean the feedback will always be taken into account, since the whole dev vision vs community vision. Which means, that at some point, it might be better to just call it a day and find a game that is more aligned with your vision.

[mellow juniper]

I wonder if his hit boxes are like ours

[limber hull]

havent seen him die yet

[mellow juniper]

Sounds fishy

[crude girder]

It was because y’all were talking about players going and playing the other dinosaur games like it was a bad thing, and that the isle should be more like what they want, instead of doing it’s own thing and having the players go wherever suits them best. Leave your feedback, but if the game is bad, just don’t play it. You won’t be doing yourself any favors by forcing yourself to stick to a game you aren’t enjoying when there are better options out there

[zinc knoll]

ngl it'd be pretty funny if he had smaller hitboxes lmao

[mellow juniper]

Dondi is a troll and that sounds like troll behavior. “Quick, come try to kill my Dino that won’t die hahaha you guys are bad at this game”

[crude girder]

My standards are low enough that I’m cheesed by just having a hadrosaur in the game, but if you have more specific wants, and those aren’t delivered after feedback, it feels like a waste of time to stay and keep thinking that this time would be different

[cyan flame]

If only I didn't want a well designed stego, and not just a stego, I could be as relaxed as you are!

[stone geode]

I consider my expectation quite low, I just want a fun dino game.

But evwn I cant be defend the camera

[crude girder]

I’ve got 5 hadrosaurs to fall back on as well, only 20% of them need to be good for me to be happy in gameplay and visuals lmao

[neat beacon]

I'm not going to argue any further on leaving the game/feedback falling on deaf ears (as both of your points are true), but I won't say review bombing is harsh in this scenario. A lot of people disagree with this change, in my opinion, reasonably, and the game will have a bad display to new consumers

[cyan flame]

I'm hoping kentro ends up feeling a little better, it's not a stego but I'll take what I can get!

[zinc knoll]

I'm just excited for other small carnies in the roster, playing scavenger is fun

[limber hull]

its a dryo lmao. he does it for fun.

man isnt even allowed to have fun playing as a "troll dino"

[crude girder]

Review bombing imo is immature since it can mislead people regarding the state of the game, but if it’s how people want to voice their opinions then they are totally free to do so. Tho idk how effective it’ll be since we’ve heard time and again how funding is largely not a problem for the game, so the primary result of review bombing, cutting off sales, is probably not going to be the checkmate people think it is lol

[crude girder]

If nothing else, there’s always modding lol

[neat beacon]

I just wouldn't call it review bombing, as it seems most people do disagree with this change. Them voicing their concerns negatively isn't a review bomb, it is simply many people disagreeing at once

[limber hull]

it is literally review bombing

it is an organised review bomb on reddit

[neat beacon]

It is an issue people have with the devolopers, they're voicing it on reviews for a game they paid for run by said devolopers proposing an issue they dislike, I dont see the problem

[crude girder]

I call it that in response to the posts I have seen on places like the Reddit calling for a review bomb, in their own terms. It’s certainly a strategy, just not a particularly effective one imo.

[stone geode]

Of people who dislike the game and how it is.

They leave a negative review of criticism

It doesn'y matter if its organized. review bombing is a review saying something like this

"Game bad, L bozo" See how theres no points in that

[limber hull]

its criticism based on misinformation and WIP features lol

[crude girder]

Still fair to bring up tho

[limber hull]

sure. not in the form of a review bomb tho

[crude girder]

You can totally criticize a WIP feature, it just won’t carry as much weight

[stone geode]

Oh come one everyone dislikes the change except for you.

I mean your the only person I see defending every change with your life

[neat beacon]

??? Why shouldn't you warn a WIP feature being put into place by new consumers who cannot refund a game after 2 hours

[crude girder]

Eh, review bombing is, as said, a tactic, and sometimes it even works

[limber hull]

there's a single guy on the reddit finding any excuse to organise "strikes" against the isle to make sure it fails. The same guy who organised the "AU server boycott" is the same dude who organised the review bomb

[crude girder]

I just don’t think this game, in particular is likely to see significant change due to it, since it’s mostly a mechanism for trying to cut off funding from additional sales

[stone geode]

Not everyone, its a hyberbole

[crude girder]

Hello it is me, Hyperbole

[limber hull]

i personally am indifferent on it lol, just waiting to see any solid actual playable mechanic to form an opinion

[neat beacon]

hi hyperbole

[crude girder]

Hello isle user Lazinuiak

[neat beacon]

how are you this beforenoon

[limber hull]

if you think i defend everything the devs do, you have not seen my rants on dino AI and how they're completely garbage

[crude girder]

Splendid, right chuffed even

[neat beacon]

quite enthusiastic even

[urban flax]

So the AU server thing was organized ? It makes more sense now

[limber hull]

yes lol

[lilac bolt]

The isle is still an early access game. things are gonna be broken or bug out but stuff will be fixed with time you just gotta be patient

[sterile pivot]

Its been early access for 9 years. Patients can last quite long, but it stretches thin eventually for many

[limber hull]

its also effectively two games crammed into one package

EVRIMA is an entirely different game from legacy.

[lilac bolt]

Yeah i get it I just go play other games and wait for updates to come out

[limber hull]

If anything, it's a sequel

[sterile pivot]

Evrima has still been around for 5 years, thats still half a decade.
And legacy hasnt been touched for those 5 years

[lilac bolt]

We probably would've had more if it didn't take so long to move everything over to ue5

[sterile pivot]

Same, ive played POT mostly until hacking is fixed(if ever(Hopefully it is(please)))) as I can only really play lil guys on officals to have fun

[limber hull]

they fixed the instakill juvi ceras if thats anything lol

[sterile pivot]

Until then im proud to say ive single handidly probably helped boost the dryo/hypsi/galli population

[sterile pivot]

At least thats something lol

[lilac bolt]

I'm hoping after the elder system gets implemented we can start getting more dino more frequently

But we'll see I guess

[sterile pivot]

Hopefully, its always been pretty slow, I just hope that things come out balanced/are balanced quickly after they are released

Its hard to ensure the food chain is appropriate and balanced for pvp/survival but the early early early rex looked scary fast 😅

[drifting hedge]

2 Days of wandering aimlessly in the dark, trying to find food and water. Trying to get into a sanctuary in pitch black as a stego is basically impossible. We finally survived on stegos long enough to see sunlight... then our town lost power. Of course, it came back on just in time for it to be night again, so that we could struggle aimlessly to find water before dying again xD

[mellow vine]

The average experience on this game rn

[shy folio]

There is nothing more immersion-ruining than getting stuck in an inescapable map-hole that you're doomed to die in because your animal can't even jump or make an attempt to get out. This is my biggest gripe about this game and I will die on this hill

They're not even cleverly placed pitfalls either.. just literally overlooked and unpolished inclines on the map that if you fall into, you're f$&ked

[valid delta]

Sounds more like you'll be dying in a hole... not a hill.

[shy folio]

LMAO

[valid delta]

❤️

[icy lion]

@vagrant cave The "only seeing the head" thing is already outdated, so far this is the most recent preview of the prototypes the devs are doing

[vagrant cave]

ah okay cool. i dont know much but only watched some stuff people complain about and i wont do that cause we dont see the end result :)

but if they atlest let uss see our whole dino id be happy about that atlest :P

is that from the raptors view or rex?

[icy lion]

Raptor's

[vagrant cave]

ah cool

[shy folio]

It should at least be an option to switch on and off instead of being a 100% permanent thing. My guess is the reason they're trying to push this is because of humans (since their own view is extremely limited) but humans aren't even in the game yet, at least not survivable ones, so...

Played as humans on community servers a couple times but obviously there's nothing you can really do with them yet

[icy lion]

Humans are planned to be entirely first person, the experiments with the camera have nothing to do with humans as far as we know

[shy folio]

As far as we know yea, it's just my guess based on some things I remember Dondi saying in a stream about dinos having a huge sight pov advantage since you can see over their back with the current camera

[valid delta]

https://tenor.com/view/jurassic-park-dont-go-long-grass-not-listening-gif-15068134

[vagrant cave]

xD

[shy folio]

Right lol pretty sure dinos would already have the advantage anyway xD

Love that scene

[valid delta]

I was happy to find the gif of it. Cause me too! Lol

Which leads to a bit of a dark question. When raptors pin humans in game... what sounds are they going to make??

[shy folio]

I hope it sounds real gnarly👼

[vagrant cave]

probably screaming AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

[mint dawn]

Now put that camera on the rex and that raptor behind the rex biting it's arse

[viral hare]

Is there alredy a date where diablo will be released?

[proud coral]

There is not. They don't really do dates for stuff since unexpected problems can arise and cause delays.

[icy lion]

Check rule 10 #rules-and-info

[viral hare]

Thought you shouldnt ask devs but I accept and I apologize 🙂

[full pewter]

@vivid bloom lighting is getting fixed and days will be longer than before, if that helps

[still sinew]

Okay I’ma say it;; I don’t think Cera should have bad NV - not saying good just - like why a scavenger not able to scavenge at night a little? Dont @ me. lol

[vivid bloom]

Woot

Whats the new camera?

[full pewter]

The camera is gonna be much closer to the Dino, the first iteration shown put it right behind the Dino’s head, but there a possibility it might not be this close, still close tho

Something like this for the raptor

[vivid bloom]

Ew that sounds terrible, I dont mind having it as an option you can go to if you want, but I dont like the idea of being forced to that if thats what theyre going for

[full pewter]

I don’t like the idea either, I think our current system is fine. But I’m willing to at least try what they’re going for and provide feedback then, cause every criticism going around rn is only speculative (not invalid tho)

It’s not out yet in case I should clarify, for public testing

[vivid bloom]

Yeah, but I mean you can already zoom in your camera to just about first person view, so idk why they would change it to something MORE limiting

[full pewter]

It’s stated in the newest devblog, but the reasonings were for:

• to better “put you in the skin of your dinosaur”
• better fit within the survival/horror genre
• make ambushes easier

Among others I’m sure

I disagree with the third reason as ambushes are plenty easy to execute currently

[vivid bloom]

My rebuttal to them for that would be as follows:

• You can already zoom in to "get inside the skin of your dino" if you so choose
• Due to the dense foliage that covers most of the map, countering ambushes is more about hearing than sound
  -What's the point of revamping and improving the skin system if your camera is forced so far up your dino's butt that you cant see it
  -Having a third person option only adds more options for players, stop pidgeon holing them into very specific ways of playing the game

[urban flax]

@iron bloom More complicated that it sounds
As lag can send false positives

[jovial hazel]

Ambushes are easy right now because everything that ambushes is small and fast. A lot more dinos are coming which will inevitably be harder to balance or make feel different.. Variable fovs and camera angles would be just one of the many ways they could affect that.

It doesn't have to be as durastic as people are trying to make it seem.

The devs have a long history of pushing things to the extreme one way or another, then tuning it to a more reasonable spot.

[full pewter]

That’s my hope, it happened with Stam and growth times, both started in bad spots but inevitably became just fine

[jovial hazel]

It can make things painful at times, but its' probaly the best/fastest way to find a good balance for certain things.

[vivid bloom]

It would be nice if they could find a happier balance faster, cause aformentioned extremes make for very annoying periods within the game lol

[full pewter]

I like the increased pressure on stam when compared to 6.5

[sudden tapir]

@winter oyster

https://tenor.com/view/whatsapp-gif-17981069

[winter oyster]

@sudden tapir

https://tenor.com/view/meow-dancing-cat-cat-dancing-meow-meow-meow-gif-14608759981751543562

[abstract coral]

guys the camera changes really aren't that deep 🤓☝️

[winter oyster]

This implies you think the camera changes are very deep and i find that even more " "

[abstract coral]

sorry ):

[plain pond]

lmao

[winter oyster]

Rallying a hate campaign over a prototype showcase is VERY ""

[abstract coral]

designing your entire discord account around this game is very 🤓☝️

sorry im sure youre a great guy !

:3

[winter oyster]

Im just a fan of the Austro design man, its neat.

[winter oyster]

As im sure the same is for you, I just think this entire thing is absolutely blown out of proportion.

[abstract coral]

i already think the fov of the dino camera is too low its claustrophobic

the darkness of the game already restricts your eyesight enough lol

plus the bushes already block your sight enough

[winter oyster]

There is an argument to be made about the darkness to be fair, although i find the current camera too free. It makes me feel omniscient as I can literally see all around myself no matter what or where i am. Just feels too easy in my opinion.

[abstract coral]

most dinosaurs have eyes on the side of their head

i get it for predators that look forward but the herbivores have near 360 vision

[summer thistle]

I always thought the 3rd person camera was meant to be representation of our dinosaurs enhanced senses

[abstract coral]

literally

[winter oyster]

Incorporate that into the game then. Have predators be given a more limited cone of vision in front of them but allow herbivores with wide set eyes have wider fields of view. It gives more depth to each playable in that case instead of everything having god cam 24/7.

[jovial hazel]

Agreed. Maybe they will fix some of the other stuff to enhance some of that awareness.

[summer thistle]

I just don’t see why we need it to be realistic, like the thing about always seeing under our dinosaur could easily be fixed without changing the entire thing

[abstract coral]

have you got monitors in a circle around you

[winter oyster]

No I play on laptop.

[abstract coral]

so how are you gonna represent 360 degrees on one screen without it being super distorted and stretched

[winter oyster]

Let the degree of how far you can move the camera with your animal's head before being locked be wider.

Pretty simple i would say.

[abstract coral]

the point is they can already see all around them without having to turn their head

im saying make the predators 1st person or whatever then they have to physically turn to see

[winter oyster]

Yeah. And thats what i want to get rid of. It feels too easy right now for every animal.

[abstract coral]

but the point of the eyes on the side of their head is that they dont have to keep spinning

thats how dinosaurs WORK

[jovial hazel]

The way I see it, with the amount of playables coming it is going to be really hard to keep them unique and give a reason to play each. Having a variable camera angle and fov is just one of the ways they will be able to do that. This is just the beginning of a feature that may or may not even make it to the end game.

[winter oyster]

This is exactly it yeah! There is a lot we could have expanded into the new camera system which give unique aspects to each animal.

[summer thistle]

Here’s the thing, we’re humans controlling dinosaurs, that means that the game will never be completely realistic, it can be immersive and it already is but complete realism is simply not possible

[abstract coral]

yeah the unique aspects could be the dinosaurs with binocular vision have 3rd person available as it is not possible to display that unless you have a vr headset on

[jovial hazel]

And they've shown multiple times they want gameplay to trump realism.

There's many features in the game that are as far from realistic as possible, for the sake of gameplay.

This isn't just for realism.

[summer thistle]

Strains

In no way are strains realistic

They’d probably be crushed under their own weight

Also in the case of ambushing we have the camera lock and maybe for some dinos that could add more mechanics that help them sneak around

And it’s not like all dinos are ambushers

[abstract coral]

they said theyre doing it to bring the players perspective closer to that of a dinosaur - i.e more realistic

and if theyre going for realism then why is "scent" a visual cue

[abstract coral]

i love stardog

[arctic nest]

such good oppinions i wonder how much they were paid to say this

[winter oyster]

I would rather have them be able to zoom in further. Like give them telescopic vision to highlight their focus on a target.

I feel like that would fit them more.

[abstract coral]

no the point of binocular vision is being more zoomed OUT not IN

theyre not birds of prey

[winter oyster]

Thats literally not how that works man.

[winter oyster]

they essentially are

[abstract coral]

having a wider fov is literally being more zoomed out

do you have an ultrawide lens on your phone

its like that but more

[winter oyster]

Yes. and binocular vision means the eyes have overlapping fields of view to enhance depths perception in animals... such as birds of prey...

So having animals with wider set eyes like stego wouldnt have much binocular vision, reducing their depth perception but increasing the field of view

[abstract coral]

i meant theyre not like birds of prey in the sense that they cant see tiny stuff from really far away like an eagle can

sorry i messed up what binocular means i guess but you know what im trying to say stop nitpicking

[winter oyster]

I can send you a link to a paper about rex's vision. They have the largest eyes of any terrestrial animal and have vision that was likely even superior to an eagle.

[abstract coral]

yeah im on about the herbivores with the eyes on the side of their head

i think the camera changes are fine for predators cos thats how their eyes actually were

[winter oyster]

Its not nitpicking, it was you saying stuff that was just... wrong and i was trying to correct you and expand on the point being made

[abstract coral]

what im saying is that the dinos with wider FOVs should have 3rd person camera still, as you cant display their near 360° vision on a single screen unless its stupid wide

[narrow field]

literally this lol

[cyan flame]

@urban bear It's not a sound problem either, it's a distance problem/power problem if anything. Deino could make all the noise it wanted, because if you're in lunge reach, you'll die even if you hear the attack, simply because you won't have enough time to react. It's literally an issue of being able to attack at point blank/near point blank and to do so with sufficient power to directly kill, or indirectly if you're supposed to do so with bleed I guess. And carno is a terrible example, the charge is again, at least with knockdown, a terrible ambush tool. Carno is not well designed as an ambusher, and it's a carno issue, nothing more or less. If it kept the instant accel, and instant/immediate full power charge, it'd be amazing at ambush, no matter how much noise it makes.

[abstract coral]

imo they need to get rid of the bugs and fix the darkness before they care about "immersion"

[urban bear]

💀

[cyan flame]

?

[winter oyster]

I still dont like the full 360 free cam we have now. I would agree with the 180 on each side degree sight but not a fully spinning drone camera footage. It has the same inherent issues of the current camera iteration.

[abstract coral]

okay maybe it should be a more zoomed out 3rd person, but turning it is as slow as the dinosaur moves its neck

and maybe get rid of the freelook and get rid of looking directly behind you

[narrow field]

okay can someone explain how the new cam system is supposed to be able to function for rear-attacking dinos
or even dinos that have 90% of their body mass behind the camera

[winter oyster]

Look behind you.

[cyan flame]

I would imagine you would have to look to the side/look behind you. And most likely the camera will be adjusted for those playables as well.

[abstract coral]

exactly, dinosaurs can physically feel and know the exact size of their own bodies so it's not an issue for them. we are on mouse and keyboard/controller and not wearing a full haptic suit

[narrow field]

so if you cant back up to position yourself, are you supposed to run around in a fight scenario staring behind you all the time so you can see when to attack?

like yes you can turn your camera but thats still incredibly disabling in a life or death scenario

[winter oyster]

You dont already do this?

[cyan flame]

You still have to aim the camera behind to use the attacks at thoese angles, already?

[winter oyster]

Exactly...

[barren zephyr]

guys if im stuck in evrima can someone come free me?

[cyan flame]

If you want to use stego angled attacks, you need to look at very specific points. And teno slam only works when you're looking behind you? Even dryo alt tailswipe works like that?

[narrow field]

right but you can still see enough around you to be able to predict/position your dino and even if youre semi distracted by another opponent you can still see enough behind you that you can tell when someone sticks their face into range

[abstract coral]

you wont be able to if its first person, youd have to turn your whole dino around which completely defeats the point

[cyan flame]

Try tagging official server admin role and ask for help

[cyan flame]

Well, it's not first person, so no worries there

[narrow field]

with the camera zoom wouldnt you have to decide between being able to adjust for defense or adjust for offense? instead of flowing naturally between the two as you need?

[cyan flame]

And that may be the issue. That you can see both and attack while also seeing that other opponen?

[barren zephyr]

@cyan flame thank you

[cyan flame]

You'd have to just... look around more actively I think.

[abstract coral]

its near enough first person, it looks like you'll have to turn your head to turn your vision

[cyan flame]

So more back/forth, actual looking, than being able to see both behind and in front of/to the side of you at the same time as much

[abstract coral]

i wonder if the devs ever read this 🤔🤔🤔

[narrow field]

it just seems like a super complicated addition to the game for little to no payoff. because at the end of the day if youre a teno facing two ceras youre not gonna have a chance.
youre gonna have to look behind you to defend against one while the second can just run up and bite you from the front with little to no danger to either cera

[cyan flame]

Yes, but not really. Because actual first person would be limited to how far the head turns. While a "over the shoulder" cam can turn even if the anim does not stretch your neck anymore. But yes, I think the idea is that you have to "look" more properly in the direction

[abstract coral]

yeah and my main point is how will you represent the wider FOVs that some dinos have when its so zoomed in

[cyan flame]

If it was actual first person, you'd only really be able to see as far to the side as the anim of your head goes, but if the camera is still hovering "over" your head, it can be allowed to turn more, it's just that you will need to turn more to get that far, not that you can't get that far. If that makes sense to you?

Some people did try to just zoom in, and while I expect the new system to be well, made from the ground up and adjusted properly, it can give you an idea of how it would work. Zoom in until you're closer to the head, then turn to either side and even try to look behind you.

[cyan flame]

If they get those, but couldn't that just be less of a zoom in for those then?

Nothing says everything has to be this or that much zoomed in after all

[devout current]

sorry to interupt yall. my underwater/nightvison (as deino) dosent work. anyone had/has the same problem?

[abstract coral]

yeah its super buggy for me, weird white lines everywhere

[devout current]

for me its just dark..

[cyan flame]

Weather?

[cyan flame]

The lines are part of the NV I think

[abstract coral]

weather underwater..?