general-feedback-discussion

[amber cosmos]

well i think with that the way it will work is going to be effected by migration, so say one species has their food at one part of the map while another herbi is on a completely diff part of the map with their food and they just rotate around due to migration

[cyan flame]

Even so, that wasnt my point there. More so that if you want to say "no one likes to sit around for 60 min" then well, that'd be why people dislike night time since they can't do anything else during it :p

[cyan flame]

Yep. But that wouldn't match with day/night

Since you could live up in one end normally, and be told to go the other end, at any point during the day

Hence why I'm saying I don't think migrations are meant to work with day/night

I also imagine you'd be able to stay in an area for multiple ingame days, before having to move

[fleet hound]

The thing is.. if we built MIGRATION around light, then it would be a race to the food and trying to stay in the sun, if your too slow or get lost.. well now do you wait until the sun is at your back again in relative safety? Or do you press on and try to eat anyway?

[cyan flame]

So it also wouldn't work with the whole "move with the light every day"

[amber cosmos]

true but it would be nice if they could figure it out

[cyan flame]

Yes but then you'd never have any downtime, unless you made the entire day so much longer

120 min, and you need to constantly move, when do you have time to do anything but move?

[sudden arrow]

This doesn’t have nothing to do with this but I just saw a movie trailer so damn scary

[cyan flame]

Time to nest? Time to set an ambush? Time to actually stalk the critters grazing somewhere?

[fleet hound]

Post

[sudden arrow]

The exorcist believe

Believer

[cyan flame]

I don't know, I'd rather they do migrations every now and then, rather than something constant, it'd be more epic I'd say xD

[amber cosmos]

not gonna lie i dont think nesting is going to be a big thing when all is said and done, the devs didnt really think about it that hard when they started thinking of migration lol

[fleet hound]

Very terrifying for sure. Did you see the dynamic light in the movie? 😉 jk just messing with you😜

[cyan flame]

Well then they've just "wasted" the mechanic, and all the potential for mutations from it

So I hope that's not the case

[sudden arrow]

Good one 😭😭😭

[amber cosmos]

wouldnt be the first time :p

[sudden arrow]

I think ima have some dynamic nightmares

[cyan flame]

... and do we learn from history or not? :p

[fleet hound]

😆

[amber cosmos]

yet to be seen with these devs

[cyan flame]

Fair enough I guess xD

But hopefully they haven't decided to implement migration in a way that ruins other things like nesting

Especially since it'd be nice if nesting finally gives you some reason to do it

[sudden arrow]

A lil migration is already in the game like you go certain places to hunt and certain places to chill

[fleet hound]

Map design issue, players need to understand dynamic light and how animals used it to navigate and stay safe, or adversely hunt and kill the stragglers.. in a way the game will be like a running simulator like only Up for example, making a mistake could cost you your life.. but at the same token as a predator, missing your chance could mean starvation and resorting to killing other predators.

[sudden arrow]

I hope nothing just sits in one spot except for the deino maybe

[cyan flame]

While there are plenty of issues with current map, Im not sure Gateway will fix the issue with day/night neccesarily

[fleet hound]

I've already expressed what needs to change about deino to create active gameplay.

[amber cosmos]

i think the simple fact its a bigger map will actually effect day and night alot

[sudden arrow]

What you thinking ?

[cyan flame]

Possibly, but not if it's still an issue of the night just being too long, though not sure how to solve that unless there are some ways to manipulate it, or alternatives to dynamic lighting that might work better in this case

[fleet hound]

Absolutely, and if it has lots of obstructions and altitude changes you will DEFINITELY have to understand dynamic light to survive and thrive.

[amber cosmos]

i dunno about it making that much of a difference i can see fine at night in this game, thats why i dont get why people complain about it to begin with but thats just me

[cyan flame]

But last I heard, when people got to test it, night was way too long, way too dark, and pretty disliked overall. Though that was without moon phases, and potentially other things that could help make night better. Still, I think people overall prefer the game to be played during day, and that should be taken into account if possible.

[amber cosmos]

well the moon is what makes the light at night so

[cyan flame]

Or we find some way to not have the game demand you move from one side of the map to the other every "cycle" :p

[fleet hound]

They complain cause they wanna see colors I guess, but don't know how to maximize their light usage

[cyan flame]

Yes, because colors offer something, night does not :p

And your argument of just moving around is not a good one, since you're just assuming every playable can move around efficiently, or have the time to do so, or even is meant to do so

[fleet hound]

Why should people sit and stay in one place? Animals are CONSTANTLY on the move, movement is life, to sit still is to die, we as humans knew this and only became sedentary after technology.

[amber cosmos]

im gonna say it, as a guy that doesnt play herbis i find night to be my fav time as i can easily hide and ambush stuff

[cyan flame]

Because this is a game and it's not fun to constantly be on the move?

And not do anything else, or even just appreciate your surroundings at times

And because territory would be interesting

Plus the whole living in a specific biome

Which would mean you're "stuck" in a certain part of the map, more or less

[fleet hound]

It's a game about dinosaurs and a sim your saying because you don't wanna move, the game should appeal to that desire? Despite the fact that it's supposed to capture the essence of what it was like during prehistoric times?

[sudden arrow]

You gotta be constantly on the move or your gonna die

[cyan flame]

You can't just decide to go from your rather southern biome you're designed to live in, all the way up north and do fine when your food isn't growing there

[amber cosmos]

@cyan flame what your missing is your not just moving, by moving in the first place your creating chances for encounters with other creatures

[cyan flame]

Except it's not. The game isn't even "about" dinosaurs per say, since we get tribals, and humans, and so on. It's not "prehistoric life sim", at all.

[cyan flame]

Which you can have in a given area as well, though I am not against moving, just specfic migration times, not constantly

Or rather, constantly moving within a biome/territory is fine

[fleet hound]

That's what dinosaurs did, they adapted and moved where appropriate, those that didn't hide and survive, but ultimately If you didn't move enough you'd get hunted down and die.

[cyan flame]

This is not a dino sim game

[amber cosmos]

the fact they are making a migration system means the devs do want people to move around though

[fleet hound]

Sure

[fleet hound]

U sure?! Lol

[cyan flame]

Yes, but probably not quite to the degree, or as often as Clay here seems to think

[sudden arrow]

That’s how the game is intended to be played

[cyan flame]

But if you stay within a biome, you don't get to maximize light usage

Since you're stuck in a certain area

[sudden arrow]

That’s why the game is laggy now because everyone piles up at one spot

[fleet hound]

Correct, decisions to make.

[cyan flame]

Yes, yes I am very sure

Strains, multiple dinos from different eras, actual bioengineered creations, including "humans"

Critters with abilities they never had irl

This is not an accurate to life dinosaur simulator

[sudden arrow]

That won’t happen for a year or two maybe

[cyan flame]

No idea why you'd think it is when omniraptor is a thing

[amber cosmos]

i actually think the migration system will be genius because it will make it so instead of having one spot on the map like center that is constantly just a killing field it would create spots similar as stuff moved around based off the ecosystem in game

[cyan flame]

A critter that never existed, or when troodon has venom, both a critter that technically never existed, and did not have venom :p

[cyan flame]

Which is bad if you have to move, despite not being designed for it, or not being your time to be in that biome, for the sake of having sufficient light for enjoyable gameplay

[sudden arrow]

I agree overall this will make the game play better and make less load

[cyan flame]

Maybe, as long as it's not overdone, territories and not all critters should migrate, and so on

[fleet hound]

Remove food from center, make it almost barren, and make the N AND S areas have food. Low daylight time high night time, center is average to low resources but safer, where as the N and S is high resources but lower altitude and riskier because less light.

[cyan flame]

Or at least not as often/as much, galli for example should be on the move quite often, a trike on the other hand, probably not

[sudden arrow]

I just hope there isn’t one hot spot on gateway

[amber cosmos]

@cyan flame i think the arguement clay is making is for the players that want the most out of day time they just need to follow the sun. @fleet hound what clay is trying to say and i actually agree with both points is that thats not a viable play style to stay alive currently lol

[sudden arrow]

That’s a point but we also want a longer day time

[cyan flame]

Yes, and I think that's a rather bad argument. Because A, you should not be migrating every "day" cycle, and B, not every critter should migrate for that matter and C, biomes and biome locking should be a thing because some herbis should not be together, and so on.

[sudden arrow]

As in values

[amber cosmos]

i think there will be unless migration comes out with gateway

[cyan flame]

Hence, why it's not neccesarily fine with current day/night, because you need to make sure even the stationary/territorial critter in the "worst" spot on the map has sufficient day/night to be fine and have fun playing

[fleet hound]

I mean migration demands are dependant on the desire, id you want food, you NEED to Migrate, if you don't need food, then you don't need to migrate.

[cyan flame]

No, they could design it quite well so there's multiple hotspots

Which would solve the issue of current "stay in center or else" :p

Even former maps had multiple spots people were in

[cyan flame]

It should also depend on the playable, and so on. And you don't have to migrate, if you're like, the only one there, you have enough food I think

[amber cosmos]

i just dont see that happening people are too social and will all flock to the most popular spot it happens in every game except beast of Bermuda

[cyan flame]

It's more so if you got a group, you might need to move when the food becomes scarce

[cyan flame]

Eh, center swamp, the southern swamps (also vaguely split area), that one pond with big rock in it, and so on

[amber cosmos]

former maps worked that way because people were forced to move around to find food

[cyan flame]

There were at least a few alternatives back then

[cyan flame]

Not really, people moved because well, local omni mega pack forced the tenos to move if they wanted to live :p But sure, people still didn't have to move every cycle/all the time

You could hang out in a given area quite some time and be fine

Depending on groupsize as well of course

[sudden arrow]

If so it’s just the same thing they wanted to avoid

[amber cosmos]

dude in legacy if you didnt move to food you starved in mins

[cyan flame]

Im not talking about legacy, early Evrima is what Im talking about

Also carnis do not need to move in legacy at all xD

[amber cosmos]

migration is the answer to the center issue not gateway, gateway is the answer to the deino issue

[cyan flame]

AI provides food at any time, any place :p

Who needs herbis anyway ^^

[amber cosmos]

i didnt play early evrima so i dont know what its like

[cyan flame]

Also you didn't really need to migrate in legacy either, there were a good few spots megaherds hung out in, and mind you, those were big herds, nesting and hanging out in certain spots for quite a while

[sudden arrow]

What ai they be non existent only seen when a server first starts

[amber cosmos]

i dont play on servers with AI i prefer to eat people on legacy :p

[cyan flame]

In Evrima? Yeah. In legacy, AI all the time xD

[sudden arrow]

Oh I never played legacy

[cyan flame]

Yes well, I am talking about official server experiences ^^

That's like playing on no alt xD

[sudden arrow]

I tried legacy it just looks bad

[amber cosmos]

what can i say im a masochist

also with no context what so ever unless you were there for the meme that was isle discussion yesterday vote for monke#general-feedback message

[cyan flame]

We're getting tribals, that's better anyway!

[sudden arrow]

The heck is a tribal

[amber cosmos]

its a joke Erik lol

[cyan flame]

Hey, you never do know, it's the Isle feedback xD

[cyan flame]

First generation, AEs attempt to make a human, I think. Didn't go all that well, as you'll see if I can find the drawings that were shown

[sudden arrow]

Was it the creature looking thing

[amber cosmos]

also Monke is the super species compared to tribal :p

[sudden arrow]

I think ive seen it

[cyan flame]

Possibly, yes

[sudden arrow]

Oh nah

Why would they add that 😭😭

[cyan flame]

Because they've been planned since the beginning, same as with generation 2, actual humans (far as we know at least), and so on

[amber cosmos]

same reason they adding strains they weirdos

[cyan flame]

and those, yes

At least the hypers and neuros, not sure if tisso is still a thing or what they do anymore xD

[sudden arrow]

I think humans gonna break the game

Imagine getting hard scoped by someone you don’t even kno is there

[amber cosmos]

i dont think it will, i think humans will hard counter small dinos and mid dinos but wont do enough dmg to stuff the size of acro and up probably

[cyan flame]

More likely humans hard counter large dinos, and are hard countered by small dinos

Big target = slow and easy to hit

Small target = fast and will be on you before you can aim properly

[sudden arrow]

Human = apex predator

[cyan flame]

I'd imagine omnis and everything around that size would be outright terrifying for a human to have around, while a rex can be shot from afar, or just hidden from in a base

[amber cosmos]

if they did it that way seeing as players have good aim and can make up for speed when aiming they would counter everything

[cyan flame]

Possibly. I dont know how easy it will be to shoot things, but I think what I said makes sense if we look at how it would work?

[sudden arrow]

That’s how I see them working killing everything

[cyan flame]

And if we get the kind of powerful damage on weapons that people seem to want, big things will die, no doubt about it

You're not surviving a headshot or two from the right weapon, even as rex

[amber cosmos]

makes sense if the gun is a high enough caliber but i think seeing as they have organs in game it should work like a hunting game where you need to hit vitals or the dinos keep coming

[cyan flame]

Yeah, that I think is planned

But that would still probably be easier on a rex from a distance, than an omni running zig/zag towards you and then pouncing

Or troodons coming into your base at night

Generally, the concern is that things like stego, plains animal, would just be sniped from afar

[amber cosmos]

also i dont know if you knew this @cyan flame but in rl people need to use 50cal to hunt elephant, meaning they would most likely need something bigger for the bigger dinos like acro, rex, and giga

[cyan flame]

No, didn't know that, but well, I'm sure AE will provide it's "mercenaries" with the neccesary tools :p

And I'd argue it's the size and the potential speed, or lack thereof, that'll make those playables more vunerable

[amber cosmos]

what i think will happen is the larger guns will be very rare and hard to find ammo for where as standard hunting rifles will be common

[cyan flame]

Harder to disappear if the human misses the first shot, while omni just runs and is gone

[cyan flame]

Oh yeah, that I think is very likely. But it doesn't make the matchups better/worse

If you have the right gun, you're probably "safer" in general, hunting the large things than the small things

So I'd say they can "counter" the apexes better than trying to cull a pack of raptors or dilos or something

[amber cosmos]

true but if they go for realism if they try to do a headshot it will probably do nothing to a rex, even against gators you need to use a high penetration round and shoot them in a particular spot in the head to kill them when hunting them in rl

[cyan flame]

Yeah, but again, I think we're getting that kind of high power weapons

Probably not sniper rifles, but aside from that

But then I could be wrong and they won't get the kind of guns neccesary to reliably shoot anything larger than midsize critters

[amber cosmos]

50cal is the largest caliber a human can carry without destroying there body with current technology

[cyan flame]

I'd still say smaller and faster critters will counter humans in general

Since even if the larger critters can't be shot, they also aren't really designed to hunt humans

[amber cosmos]

i think it honestly depends on what guns they put in the game

[cyan flame]

Well... A, game, and B, the humans ingame are not "natural" humans from what I know

As much as Gen2 looks normal, they're also "created" apparently

[amber cosmos]

they are basically clone soldiers

[cyan flame]

So you could make an argument that they can do stuff you wouldn't otherwise see. As we have omnis pouncing, troodon venom, and so on xD

It depends on if the devs want them shooting rexes or not I guess

[amber cosmos]

i dunno i think thats a stretch lol

[cyan flame]

Not really. Carno charges, omni pounces, stego jabs like a scorpion :p I really don't think we have a case for "realism" here

[amber cosmos]

i think there potential is directly tied to the weapons coming to the game as other then that they are slow and weak

[cyan flame]

oh yeah, galli runs faster by shouting at each other, and cerato somehow gains extra life near a body because it chuffs xD

Sure, human without weapon is pretty weak, or should be, but the kind of weapon we get is probably entirely dependent on what the devs want the humans to shoot

[amber cosmos]

i think thats post to simulate chemicals in the body even humans have to protect whats theirs

[cyan flame]

Rather than any "realism" of what they could and could not carry. Also keep in mind, these guys can "clone" dinosaurs, with human minds in them (last I heard), I'd not put it past them to have created some fancy weaponry too

[cyan flame]

True, but we don't get the ability to take more hits, rather we can ignore pain and all for a bit, but we don't somehow survive things we wouldn't otherwise, I don't think at least

[amber cosmos]

i think humans with sniper/hunting rifles will counter mid teirs like carno and allo and humans with assault rifles will counter small creatures where as they need a sci fi weapon for apexs

[cyan flame]

Well, there is that "anti hyper" gun thing

If you wanted sci-fi or sort of weapons

[amber cosmos]

no we wouldnt survive it just delays our death unless we recieve an insta fatal wound like our heart or brain being destroyed

[vital laurel]

@dawn goblet its coming

[lone tartan]

eu1 carno and amnis are mixpacking 🙂

[amber cosmos]

yeah and i bet there will be like one per server lol

[cyan flame]

Yeah, I get your point but I trust you also get mine on how realism doesn't always apply here :p And I don't know if even assault rifles would help vs an omni pack to be honest with you xD Or troodons, who are so tiny and all.

[amber cosmos]

yes

[cyan flame]

I guess we'll have to wait and see, but I wouldn't put it past them that they let the humans shoot and kill even a rex

[amber cosmos]

it would help i think as humans also have flashlights and when grouped up they could coordinate fire to kill them before they make it into melee range and regardless of what weapon they have big or small dino ambushing them in woods will kill them probably

[amber cosmos]

i dont disagree but i think the stuff used to do it will be so uncommon that they wont want to waste it

[cyan flame]

The humans are meant to be the horror aspect of the game, more than most, so that should be a point in your favour of not making the humans, even with guns, too safe or good

[fleet hound]

Rate my post, and tell me what you think or how we could expand on this more. #balance-feedback message

[cyan flame]

I.... honestly can't agree there. You know people will grief someone if they can. Someone will waste that one or two shots on a full grown brachi grazing on the treetops over there, just because they know the player will be ever so salty and upset :p

But maybe I just have less faith in the playerbase than you do!

[amber cosmos]

yeah but i dont think thats the common player in this community i think most just want to play the game and rp their dino which is why so many complain about mixpackers and body blocking and so forth

[fleet hound]

Agreed, mix packing is bs and shouldn't be a thing at all.

[cyan flame]

Oh sure, it might not be very common, but it will happen if you let the players be able to do it :p

[urban flax]

The brachi will turn their head to the human after getting a magazine emptied in their nose, then resume grazing

[cyan flame]

Hopefully :p

I think we're mostly considering the powerlevel of the guns given the humans, and what would happen if so

[amber cosmos]

well i think the cure to that is to make it a very uncommon weapon and ammo type and if people dont want the griefers to get it they should simply kill the greifers themselves before they get it

[cyan flame]

Camp the human spawn points/loot spawn points as raptors xD

[urban flax]

Well how heavy is brachi gonna be ? 30 tons ?
I doubt any bullet is gonna do more than 1k damage (and that'd still be 30 of them to kill the brachi)

[amber cosmos]

nah not human spawns weapon spawns

[cyan flame]

Depends on if we get that organ system maybe?

[urban flax]

Well then good luck hitting a barchi's brain

[cyan flame]

Fair, loot, or camp the base the humans will want to live in :p

[urban flax]

Or any organ except lungs for that matter

[amber cosmos]

no gun a human can carry except the sci fi gun will kill a brachy even with the organ system

also to balance humans i think they should be on every carnis diet and give all diet 😛 LMAO

[urban flax]

By the time humans are in the sopping list diets need to be gone

[cyan flame]

If we apply realism that is xD

[amber cosmos]

if they want balance they will have to so

[cyan flame]

True, but then "balance" can be interesting at times. After all, they want to make the apexes "true" apexes, so we'll see how things end up

[amber cosmos]

im really not hopefull lol, i think rex coming in so soon is a mistake as the new thing people will complain about is rex instead of deino

[lone tartan]

gg omnis eu1

[cyan flame]

Well, only on unofficials, and unofficial balance is irrelevant

So it'd be "fine", more or less :p

[amber cosmos]

true but look at it this way, its the top dog right so it has to be balanced against everything that comes to the game i think it will create a situation where they waste alot of time and energy trying to balance rex constantly as they add new dinos rather then just adding the mid tiers and working their way up

[lone tartan]

gg carno eu1

was a good fight but u have much to learn

[cyan flame]

@lone tartanI don't think this is the right channel for that, maybe you should go find the official server one :p

[cyan flame]

True, the roster is, well, not ideal at least :p

[amber cosmos]

yeah and as much as i like deino they should have added bary instead, also think instead of stego they should have added maia

[cyan flame]

I don't see deino itself as the issue, well, I do but for different reasons, you know that since the talk in balance feedback. But they could have just put it at 4T, adjusted the growth/size, kept the current power (you'd still kill everything up to 2T, of which nothing is above aside from stego), and made it somewhat more vunerable overall, because well, smaller and thus can't just roam land as easily. Take out stego, since it needs a rework and adjustment anyway. And maybe added something else instead, but I'm not sure that would have been needed, as much as just adjusting things like dryo and hypsi to be more fun in general.

[amber cosmos]

i think the size isnt the issue with it going on land i think the distance it can travel while on land is the issue

[amber cosmos]

i also think for hype and to sell the game they should have released allo and stego together and keep like a rival release theme to dinos

[cyan flame]

Adjusted weight means less "invunerability" to omnis/carnos and so on, at least on land, which was the idea there.

[fleet hound]

The issue with deino is its to easy to become fully grown and the fact that you can play PVE to grow with it l, just shouldn't be a thing. Rid of fish diet and froggies for lipids, then the deinos kill eachother and are forced to go on land to get froggies leading to risky gameplay like every other Dino in the game.

[cyan flame]

Maybe, but it depends on if the plan is to have allos fight stegos or not. Not sure what their plan for stego really is.

Trike and rex are the more obvious matchup when it comes to rivals I think

[amber cosmos]

eh fish can stay ive played deino enough to know they really dont do anything for hunger unless you travel the whole map. i think its hunger drain is the issue as far as it interacting with each other and other dinos for food it needs to drain around same pace as cerato i think or maybe faster, this will reduce the population of both dinos and fish as everyone will be having to eat alot more to live

[amber cosmos]

i think not having allos fight stegos would be a massive blunder

that would be like having rex not fight trike like you mentioned frankly

[cyan flame]

Not neccesarily, I think it's more up for debate if allos did hunt stegos, or at least if they hunted fully grown ones. Not sure on that, but I don't think it's as given of a matchup. And especially not depending on the size of our allo and how it functions in game compared to our stego and how it might function given the kit adjustments and so on.

[amber cosmos]

most allos found to have wounds have had wounds from stegos i dont think its really up for debate from anyone that knows about the topic

[urban flax]

It's a proof said allos got wounded by a stego, not that they killed it...

[fleet hound]

Yeah reducing hunger might help, it's a worthwhile experiment.

[amber cosmos]

they wouldnt have been around it to die if they were trying to kill it at the very least

[urban flax]

I mean an allo would probably not keep attacking a stego after getting stabbed to the crotch...
Maybe it preffered the option of surviving with an empty stomach rather than waste the last of its strength on something that is definitely very dangerous...

[cyan flame]

Fair, though I don't know if those stegos were fully grown or not. But I'm not sure that matchup would work well in the game, depending on how they want allo to work, and if they want stego to stand a fighting chance vs rex.

[amber cosmos]

A stegosaurid plate with an Allosaurus-sized and shaped bite exists. Maybe the plate did its job and kept it safe? A study suggested Allosaurus had the widest-opening mouth of any dinosaur yet discovered. Whether or not it actually opened its mouth as wide as it was capable is unknown.Mar 16, 2022 also this is what google says up at the top when you type in if stego has been bitten by allo

[urban flax]

It's not a proof allo never killed stegos either, it's... actually not a proof of much

[urban flax]

Did the stego plate show signs of healing or not ?

[amber cosmos]

no

having said that it was found next to a dead allo so they killed each other lol

[urban flax]

oh

[amber cosmos]

also erik has a point about them maybe not being full grown but i think most carnivores go for the weaker and smaller prey animal rather then adults even today for safety

[amber cosmos]

to be fair i think the idea stego should stand a chance against rex is ridiculous to begin with rex is twice the size and frankly would kill a stego in one bite to the spine and at most recieve a wound on its leg

[urban flax]

Yeah
Predators only attack healthy adults if they have no choice
And it usually doesn't end very well

[urban flax]

Would stego being able to run away from a rex less ridiculous for you ?

Because it needs to be able to do at least one of those

[amber cosmos]

i think the way stego should counter rex is with group play, solo herbis shouldnt be a thing and the devs need to find a way to make it work

[urban flax]

Then you think stego should be unviable

If an animal has to group up to stand a chance against a predator... then it cannot survive at all

[amber cosmos]

something being weaker then an apex doesnt make it unviable

[urban flax]

Something having 0 way to survive an encounter with an apex except being in a group means it's unviable

[cyan flame]

Depends on the weight in game, stego irl max size is apparently 8T, not sure rex is double that honestly, even if it is quite a bit larger. And well, game and balance takes precedence. I think most of us agree that irl matchup, stego dies, but then well, that wouldn't be fun for the game. Also most things in this game would die to irl rex as it were.

[urban flax]

Also stego is like the worst designed herbi for being a herd animal

[amber cosmos]

thats literally how animals work its why herds exist, the largest herb in rl the elephant even travels in groups

[cyan flame]

And so, unless stego gets to run from rex, it kind of has to fight

Or just never encounter a rex at all I suppose

[amber cosmos]

rex is 14ton

[urban flax]

But that's a game and it doesn't work like real life

[urban flax]

no

[amber cosmos]

yes

[urban flax]

The largest estimate for rex is 11ton
And that's an outlier

[cyan flame]

No, no I don't think it is, and 14 is still not double from 8. :p

Unless my math is off xD

[urban flax]

I think it's either Sue or Scotty
And both are not the regular-sized adult rex, they're massive

[amber cosmos]

max is 14 avg is 6.5

[cyan flame]

Yeah, but in game it doesn't work. Also irl animals feel pain, don't really have human smarts most of the time, and generally die if they take too bad of a wound and it gets infected and so on

[urban flax]

And irl animals don't spawn alone in the middle of nowhere, needing to find food in the next 15 minutes or perish

[cyan flame]

Largest I've heard is about 10T, but sure. And no one is really saying stego would handle a rex irl, but that's not really relevant for the game :p

[amber cosmos]

im aware and they have brought up a system for getting sick from wounds if im not mistaken

[cyan flame]

Irl rex was op as can be

So that's clearly not going to work out for the game anyway

[urban flax]

I think there is a reason stego was no longer here when tyrannosaurids appeared...

[amber cosmos]

im really not sure why everyone thinks every herbi in the game should be good against rex it makes no sense, i really dont see why its an issue to use numbers as a balancing mechanic against rex

[cyan flame]

In any case, for viability, you can not rely on group/numbers for defense

[amber cosmos]

yeah they died off to allo lol

[cyan flame]

It can work for offense, but even so, a solo pack hunter playable still needs to be viable

Because numbers means you die before you can get those numbers

It's not viable for survival

[urban flax]

Every herbi in the game should have a chance to survive any given situation if they play it right

[cyan flame]

Also I don't think "every herbi should be good vs rex", I think the large herbis that can not reasonably run away, should be able to survive by fighting

Para can run, so it's fine that it dies if rex catches it

[amber cosmos]

not being good against one dino doesnt make you non viable, rex is not the end all be all as to whats viable, this is what im saying no matter what the devs do when they bring in rex it will be the villian and everyone will complain cause they are getting soloed by rexs

[urban flax]

If stego cannot fight off a rex, and cannot run from it, then rex invalidates the existence of stego

[cyan flame]

You let stego run, thats also fine, but it has to be able to survive the encounter, somehow

[amber cosmos]

two stegos could probably mess a rex up is my response\

[urban flax]

Every playable has to be taken into account when making balance
Not doing that is the reason cera ended up being able to kill stegos in pairs

[cyan flame]

I don't believe stego has to be good to be able to fight rex to survive, or to just run away

If you think stego fighting off a rex is silly, then we'll just make stego run

[urban flax]

And how do you get two stegos together if they can't survive ?

[cyan flame]

That works too

[amber cosmos]

the reason cerato kills stego is due to a glitch with its bile, when that is fixed it will die in droves to stego

[amber cosmos]

stegos are easy as hell to grow

[cyan flame]

Not really, they're some of the harder ones, though that says very little

Considering everything is easy to grow :p

[urban flax]

I'm pretty sure they're the hardest thing to grow right now
Except teno and/or carno maybe ?

[cyan flame]

Carno would probs be harder due to food requirements, and teno as well, because bad juvie :p

[amber cosmos]

only if you go around in the open, i hide at swamp until im 100% then leave

[barren crater]

If a playable sucks solo, players won’t pick it. Isle players will stick to the better ones

[cyan flame]

Okay, and everyone else can also afk grow and hide :p

So again, that says very little

[amber cosmos]

they take the longest that doesnt make them the hardest carno is the hardest

[urban flax]

They won't really have a choice tbh

[cyan flame]

And yeah, why go stego, when you can go trike

[barren crater]

Yeah this is worse than sucking

[cyan flame]

Why go stego when you can go para

[urban flax]

Stego also has a rather bad juvie stage

[cyan flame]

Trike can fight rex and win, on it's own. Para can run away from rex and live, on it's own

[amber cosmos]

carno has a bad juvie sub and adult stage lol

[cyan flame]

Yes, carno is in a bad spot, we know :p

[barren crater]

It’s also had great stages before

[amber cosmos]

trike travelled in herds :p

[barren crater]

Things change

[urban flax]

But carno as any stae can escape most threats at least

[amber cosmos]

except cerato yeah

[cyan flame]

And do you really want trike herds in this game? ^^

[urban flax]

irl isn't what matters now

[amber cosmos]

yes

[cyan flame]

Yeah, I think we'll have to disagree then xD

I don't think any apex critter should come in more than pairs in any given area/territory and so on

[amber cosmos]

why the hell would someone play a herd animal and not use numbers yall want this game to play like cod with dinos i swear

[cyan flame]

I'd by far prefer trike to be powerful but mostly solitary

[urban flax]

We need trike herds because obviously a trike winning against a rex would be ridiculous (it's a herbivore therefore weaker than every carnivore)

[cyan flame]

If you want big numbers, play smaller animals

[amber cosmos]

nah

[cyan flame]

They require less to sustain, and can have higher numbers as a result

Omni and troodon comes in good numbers, I don't expect rex and giga to come in the same numbers

[barren crater]

The point is it shouldn’t need a herd to defend itself lol

[cyan flame]

Dryo and teno comes in good numbers, I don't expect para and stego to do the same

[urban flax]

Galli is the perfect example of a well-done herd animal
It's perfectly viable solo, but really shines in numbers
Omni as well (if pounce didn't end on certain death on dinos with an alt-bite)

[amber cosmos]

i expect rex to be solo unless they are currently paired for nesting

[cyan flame]

Pretty much. Galli survives on its own, but it benefits from being in a group. (also might be terrifying still, not sure if it still bleeds things out)

[cyan flame]

And I apply the same to every apex critter

[amber cosmos]

then dont complain when rex shows up with a mega pack to kill your stego cause it cant do it alone :p

[barren crater]

Also simple logic here. If Stego is played enough where there are herds, then multiple rexes would be supported / be able to hunt the herds.

[cyan flame]

I don't believe "being able to fight" equals "I can not be killed by this thing"

[barren crater]

That’s just numbers at that point

[cyan flame]

Ceratos and carnos can kill tenos, but a teno can also fight back and survive

[urban flax]

The point never was that rex shouldn't be able to kill stego alone

[barren crater]

Yeah of course 2 rexes would kill a solo stego

[cyan flame]

Im not sure why we're thinking that because stego can survive a 1v1 encounter, it means it can't die

A trike should be able to fight off a rex in a 1v1, with not too much trouble

[urban flax]

But yeah, rexes grouping up to kill defensive animals can end up being an issue
That may hopefully be solved by a better megapack scent

[cyan flame]

A rex should still be able to kill the trike

Ideally stegos would also be rather solitary, they're one of the worst herd animals in the first place

[urban flax]

So a lone (stego) could smell a group of (rexes) from afar, before they see it and it's doomed

[amber cosmos]

let me put it this way, the croc in game right now mostly loses 1v1 to current stego, the croc is 8 tons which is what i imagine rex will be or close to it meaning close to the same HP. they are buffing stego and giving it an upward swing to head shot rex with, i see rex getting merked solo by the games stego

[amber cosmos]

or it could hide

[cyan flame]

I don't think that comparison holds any weight at all

[urban flax]

The key difference is deino isn't meant to hunt prey its own size

[barren crater]

Then ambush the stego?

[cyan flame]

@amber cosmosDeino is A, designed to punch down with the lunge and B, very slow and unagile on land.

[amber cosmos]

its how the game works weight decides HP for the most part

[urban flax]

Sure... hide... as a 6-ton animal with plates on its back... that cannot crouch...

[cyan flame]

You are comparing a playable that is not at all designed to fight, much less do so on land

[barren crater]

Plains herbi hiding???

[cyan flame]

Yes, but... come on now, weight is not the only thing that decides a matchup, you know that right

[amber cosmos]

on a forest map yes

[cyan flame]

Health/weight is not the be all/end all

[urban flax]

cerato:

[amber cosmos]

stego never saw rex in rl so makes sense it would do things it didnt do in rl

[cyan flame]

Omni, troodon.

[urban flax]

Also troodon
To a much bigger extent

[cyan flame]

Both animals that punch up way beyond their weight

[urban flax]

It would because it's not real life it's a game

[amber cosmos]

cerato has gimics rex wont have try not to go making it the basis for your arguement it will make you look silly

[cyan flame]

Deino isnt designed to punch up, and is not designed to fight on land at that

Somehow you want to compare how that matchup vs stego goes, with how a rex would fight it?

[urban flax]

I don't even understand your sentence

[amber cosmos]

your missing the whole point

[amber cosmos]

stego can kill a deino in a trading match and i think rex will be weaker hp wise or same as deino and without the bleed resist

[cyan flame]

Am I? Then please clarify.

[barren crater]

Then don’t trade? You have fractures

[cyan flame]

Yes, because deino can't move very well on land, and has almost no tools to properly fight, because it has lunge

[barren crater]

A pin move

[urban flax]

I think rex will have about as much or slightly more HP than deino
Weren't you the one who said it was 14 tons ?
Also rex will probably deal more damage

[cyan flame]

Now, I imagine rex has way better tools, more "force", and can manuever on land

[barren crater]

Yeah.

[amber cosmos]

the pin move hasnt been show against something the size of stego it was used on a bary

[cyan flame]

We might get 10T rex, which would be 2K more than full size stego if we get that

[barren crater]

Para

[cyan flame]

It was used on a para

Which is a pretty large critter. It also used headbutt to stun/stagger a giga

[amber cosmos]

para isnt a 8ton stego

[cyan flame]

Which is an even larger critter

[cyan flame]

Mind you, I never said we'd get 8T stego, just that its the irl size, since you talked about 14T rex and all.

[urban flax]

Para could be up to 15 tons (although i doubt they'll make it that big)

[cyan flame]

But if it can stun a giga with headbutt, it sure can do it to a stego

[amber cosmos]

the devs said we might get 8ton stego

its undecided but an idea they might do

[cyan flame]

I don't think they've ever said that. Do you have any quote?

[amber cosmos]

yeah let me find it

[cyan flame]

The closest we've gotten for stego is kit adjustment/the "uppercut" swing and so on, I've never heard anything about stats

But in any case, rex would be larger most likely, 9T or more, and have a better kit to fight a stego on land than a deino would have.

So the comparison still falters, if you look at more than just their weights/health

[amber cosmos]

@cyan flame it was from kissen and im not going through 6k results in the search bar to find it so :p

but yeah ive had this arguement since they mentioned it going to 8ton cause i think its a terrible idea, it will have similar health to rex, do bleed and will probably hit just as hard if not harder it will probably make rex feel like a carno in the current state of the game trying to take on a stego frankly

ok maybe not that bad

[amber cosmos]

the family it was in had dinos get to 15 tons para itself didnt get that big

[urban flax]

That's right, the biggest estimate for para is only 14 tons

While Shant was 16 tons

[cyan flame]

Well, I've never heard/seen that, not that I don't trust you, but it is very much news to me. I'll try and look for it myself later on, see if I can find anything to support the claim.

[amber cosmos]

the biggest para ever was 4 tons

[urban flax]

Bruh that's an estimate from 20 years ago

[cyan flame]

I feel that you might be a little outdated there yes :p

Para, it turns out, was quite large too

[amber cosmos]

Parasaurolophus was a large plant-eating dinosaur that lived in North America during the late Cretaceous period, about 76 to 74 Million years ago. Parasaurolophus was 33 feet (10 meters) long, 16 feet (4.9 meters) tall, and weighed about 3 to 4 tons.

top of google

[cyan flame]

Same as how stego got upsized, as did anky, and a few others I believe even

[urban flax]

XD

[amber cosmos]

https://www.dinosaurjungle.com/dinosaur_species_parasaurolophus.php#:~:text=Parasaurolophus was a large plant,about 3 to 4 tons.

there ya go

[urban flax]

Yeah anky did get a massive upsize recently
Now it's monstrous

[cyan flame]

Wait, again? How large is it now?

[amber cosmos]

not all hadrosaurs are paras

[urban flax]

I'm not sure it's again as we might be talking about the same upsize but... it's now taller than a human

[urban flax]

I'm specifically talking about para here

[cyan flame]

Oh boy, hope we get that in game. Do you know the weight?

[urban flax]

parasaurolophus (not sure which species)

[urban flax]

I have no idea about the weight, but seeing how dense anky is... probably a lot

[amber cosmos]

i just posted you a page from 2020 so unless it changed in 3 years its 4 tons max

[cyan flame]

Last I heard/saw it was about 9T or more probably

So a decent sized critter :p

@amber cosmoshttps://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/650426161868046340/1133468110700154983/Kaiparowits_Para_NO_REFS.png

[urban flax]

I'm not sure how recent the 14 tons estimate is
But it was much heavier than 4 tons before 2020

[cyan flame]

Well, at least some parasaur got quite large

So we got some variation to choose from at least :p

[urban flax]

Ah you got the chart

[cyan flame]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/650426161868046340/1133468423981109379/P.png?width=1434&height=498

[amber cosmos]

id like an actual article

[cyan flame]

Specific parasaur xD

[urban flax]

Personnally I get all my info from paleotalk
Maybe YDAW on youtube has a video on para ? I heard he's pretty reliable

[amber cosmos]

Remains of the skin show uniform tubercle-like scales. The Parasaurolophus had an overall length between 29.5'-36' (9-11 m), standing height of 14.4'-18.4' (4.4-5.6 m), body width of 3.9'-4.9' (1.2-1.5 m), and weight from 6,000-8,000 lb (2,722-3,629 kg).Jul 27, 2022

[cyan flame]

I don't have the article, this is just information I got from a friend I know hangs out in paleotalk a lot

[amber cosmos]

8 tons not 15

or actually still not 8 tons i read the 8k lb as tons like a dummy

[cyan flame]

You did xD But the estimates on the charts there are in kg I believe

[amber cosmos]

https://www.dimensions.com/element/parasaurolophus-parasaurolophus-walkeri#:~:text=Remains of the skin show,(2%2C722-3%2C629 kg).

i think what yall are talking about might be a few with theorys that they might get that big but the current evidence and consensus is still around 4 tons

having said that devs are probably likely to put a big para in

[urban flax]

The consensus is more 7 tons
But even then, they could make para as big or small as they want
They made teno twice as big as its rl counterpart after all

And beipi 10x smaller

[amber cosmos]

also alot of people lump edmont in with para because they lump all hadrosaurs in with para so thats why i thought you were talking about that instead

[cyan flame]

From what I can tell, and mind you, I'm certainly no expert here, those estimates are based on skeletal parts. While the 4T is the most complete, these others are fragmentary. This might be why most sources refers to the most complete version. But there is, far as I can tell, at least sufficient evidence to consider that parasaurs could get quite large too.

[cyan flame]

Isnt edmont just a version of shant if anything? :p

[amber cosmos]

they are both hadrosaurs

[cyan flame]

But yeah, for the game, I'd imagine a para around maybe 6-7T or so, since we do have shant as well as maia, for larger and smaller

[amber cosmos]

im struggling to see why herbis complaining then cause that means everything larger then the current roster will be off limits to even mid tier carnis, it will literally take apexs to consistently kill larger herbis without losing a few allos for example in the process. and knowing the devs they will put stego and para on both allo and alberto diet

starting to think herbi roster bloat is a problem LMAO

[urban flax]

It really has nothing to do with bloat

[amber cosmos]

they need to add more mid herbies

[urban flax]

Unless you want herbis to stop at 3 tons for some reason and have apexes starve

[amber cosmos]

no i want more mid herbies and less huge herbies why we need 3 sauropods lol

[urban flax]

Kentro, maia, stryraco, diablo, theri, and probably others I don't have off the top of my mind

[urban flax]

We got 3 carnivore apexes
Maybe 4 if acro ends up killing suaropods like its concept art shows

[amber cosmos]

i mean something around 4 tons to 6 tons

[urban flax]

Well para could be in that size range

[amber cosmos]

also theri is huge its not mid at all

[urban flax]

Theri is tall but doesn't weigh that much

[amber cosmos]

it was 11k pounds

5.5 tons so that would actually be perfect

give me more theri

also give me torvosaurus as a mid sized carni brawler

[urban flax]

that's alberto

Or sucho if they decide to make it that way

[amber cosmos]

alberto is an ambusher with low stam you cant brawl and have low stam it makes no sense, imagine brawling with a carno

[urban flax]

Nothing really screams "ambusher" to me here

[amber cosmos]

go read the devblog

[urban flax]

which one ?

[amber cosmos]

It’s a tough life for Alberto growing up, but if one does make it to adulthood, they can become quite the deadly force.

We wanted to play with the idea of a high-risk high-reward animal, with the full grown Alberto having enviable tracking capabilities and power at the cost of stamina. It can’t run for days but when it does set up an ambush and catch you, the fight is over fast. Albertosaurus is a creature you’ll most likely see hunting in pairs and sometimes tailed by their offspring. While they can have many young, very few are expected to survive. If some do manage to not fall prey to similar sized carnivores during their youth, their continued growth and demand for food will get them chased off by their more ravenous parents or even eaten themselves if they insist on hanging around while food runs out.

devblog 29

also i went and looked at the para concept and its as big as acro so it will probably be a big para LMAO

[cyan flame]

Is this a bad thing though? Midtiers can probably hunt some of the larger ones, like para. But para is also not quite weaponized like stego is for example.

[amber cosmos]

making it so people have to play a apex to hunt most of the larger herbies due to a lack of mid sized herbies is bad yes

[amber cosmos]

anyway now that you see its an ambusher while allo is also an ambusher can you see why i want a carni brawler?

[cyan flame]

But there isnt a lack of "mids" though?

[amber cosmos]

there really is, i dont consider a 8 ton para a mid herbi

they could easily fill the gap by putting some mid sized ceratopids in as well

[cyan flame]

The ones that are "large", or apex, would only be trike, anky, stego, cheirus (omni), shant and, Im probably forgetting someone. Aside from the sauropods but well, those are a bit beyond "large" honestly. For the carnis, we got rex, giga, spino, acro, and deino I suppose. Sure, maybe those are too many, but the roster in general has plenty of smaller things too I think at least.

[amber cosmos]

anyone have a chart of the playables i want to look at it

[cyan flame]

We don't know if we get 8T para, I was thinking around 6-7 at most to be honest.

But it's also not just weight that matters

Remember, an 8T para and an 8T stego are... quite the different targets to handle

[amber cosmos]

i think it will be 8ton as its bigger then an acro in size but same height in its concept

[cyan flame]

Allos would be quite capable of handling a para that doesn't really fight that much, compared to a stego that does very much fight

Weight is.. not neccesarily the same as height

And that, again, does not correlate entirely to power or ability to fight

[amber cosmos]

true but one can assume that if they are the same weight and one is larger it probably weights more

but anyway we dont know how para will play and this idea that they cant fight is a fallacy created by media

[cyan flame]

Oh I know, but I don't see it as well, as capable or deadly in a fight as the thing with spikes on the end of it's tail to skewer things with

[amber cosmos]

true but i imagine an 8ton stego will wreck allo and alberto so

[urban flax]

Honestly if ablerto and allo are both ambushers something went wrong
But it still leaves sucho and acro (unless acro is made an apex despite all common sense)

[amber cosmos]

i think they already said acro was an apex its literally hunting trike and a sauropod in its art

[urban flax]

We really don't need a 4th carni apex tho
The fact it's shown hunting a sauropod alone in its CA is still a decision beyond my comprehension

[amber cosmos]

agreed but its there

[urban flax]

If we were to have another brawler carni I'd prefer anything besides yet another generic theropod
I would love to see megalosaurus
But the 1900s depiction of it

[amber cosmos]

isnt that like the size of carno or smaller?

i want something allo or alberto size cerato is already kinda a brawler

[urban flax]

Can't find a reliable source on its weight

[amber cosmos]

for mega?

[urban flax]

yes

[cyan flame]

Well yes, that should be okay honestly. I don''t see them doing very well vs trike or rex or giga or something either to be fair :p

[amber cosmos]

which is why i want more mid herbis otherwise everything thats a mid carni will either have to form megapacks to hunt apex herbs or live off teno lol

well teno and maia

[urban flax]

an ddiblle and styraco and theri

[amber cosmos]

dibble is tiny

theri is good i want more

[urban flax]

it's a mid-tier

[amber cosmos]

i dont know what styraco is

[amber cosmos]

its a mid tier in name only as far as dibble is concerned

[urban flax]

There may also be pachyrhinosaurus but it's not hard-confirmed

[amber cosmos]

oh i like that

that thing seems perfect for alberto to hunt

[lucid mauve]

Im hoping you would need a big pack to take a apex down. But also i hope numbers dont matter at a certian point. Like i would rather fight 9 bad ones then 5 good ones

Hoping skill kicks in instead pure numbers

[cyan flame]

Did you get the full roster list/chart?

[amber cosmos]

not yet

[amber cosmos]

that makes sense to an extent but there are plenty of mid sized carnis that werent pack hunters

just like herb players dont want to play in groups to be viable why should carnis be put in that box? specially when they actually need to kill to eat?

[barren zephyr]

pachyrhino is def coming, i thonk they released some art of it aswell

[cyan flame]

Look in DM, let me know if that works :p

[cyan flame]

No carni should have to group up to have things to kill to survive on. Packing up to punch up is fine, but a solo omni or even troodon needs things it can hunt and kill to be viable.

[lucid mauve]

Yea, but herbs will also have problem beeing alot. Cus food, i think i saw in concept of para it stood that 2 is a many and 3 is a party

[weak dune]

Well plus... if a carni is obligated to group up to defeat a single larger dino and survive, and everyone including their herbi prey or apexes flock together in massive groups or mixpacked groups, then those group carnis are SOL if they're only viable in an 8v1

[amber cosmos]

im not talking about punching up though, the issue is when allo and alberto come to game there is a lack of things for them to hunt without punching up for alberto in particular, also looking at the chart the theri on the chart is huge

[amber cosmos]

herbies dont struggle for food stop it lol

[lucid mauve]

Not now lol

[stone hatch]

Struggle for diet maybe but food never

[cyan flame]

Well, grouping up to defeat a single larger dino is perfectly fine, as long as there are other non large dinos you can handle on your own. Thats the more important part here. Its fine if omnis need to be a full pack to ever kill a larger dino, as long as a solo omni has plenty of prey it can kill on its own to survive, be it same sized or even smaller than it.

[lucid mauve]

Allo can easy hunt small tiers solo

[amber cosmos]

yes but will they be on its diet?

[cyan flame]

I'd imagine maia and similar sized animals would suit allo perhaps?

[amber cosmos]

yes but it needs atleast 3 mid sized herbs for its diets

[stone hatch]

And honestly I think herbi food should be abundant. Herbis need an incentive to play them. Clearly it isnt working with the current game population. Oe perhaps the skewed ratio rn is due to there only being one herbi that can fight big things and also run- teno. With that being said teno is the least noob friendly dino in the entire game and takes the most practice to survive as with the carni population and it’s unwarranted nerfs.

[lucid mauve]

I think so, theh even have a ambush ability. Looks like that from concept.

[amber cosmos]

having an ambush doesnt mean it will hunt smaller things

i do think galli will be on its diet though

[cyan flame]

And there's no other suitable one than maia?

[amber cosmos]

maybe teno galli and maia for allo diet?

[cyan flame]

To be fair, diets are... well, they're questionable on their own xD

[lucid mauve]

Its hunting a galli in the concept, and not sure what you gonna do with ambush vs big stuff. Your faster then apex newaya

[amber cosmos]

ambush would allow you to close the gap faster if you catch them by suprise and get the first hit in other then that i think its going to be for stuff thats faster then allow like galli or maia

[weak dune]

Its one of those things that's historically (as far as the Isle goes) been better in concept than execution. Mainly because of the weird balance dance the Isle has gone through with Herbi/Carni matchups and the fact that Omni doesn't have a ton of options for hunting when mid-tier+ herbs get together. Or when another carni rolls in to take advantage, like the carno megapacks that used to be rampant

[amber cosmos]

im not really worried about allo having a diet though im worried about alberto cause it will have bad stam and from it says very bad hunger drain aka a slower tanker carno

[amber cosmos]

carno megapack good times lol

[lucid mauve]

Yes but it also says it will end fight fast

[weak dune]

Totally 😂

The good ol' days when you'd have 40 carnos frolicking through center plains

[amber cosmos]

yes but if its fighting something faster then it i dont see it ending anything fast

[weak dune]

And God help anyone else

[lucid mauve]

Cus its like rex, you either manage to ambush. If you dont, no food

[amber cosmos]

i actually think with its kit alberto will manage to the worst carnivore in the game to play.. again

[cyan flame]

Technically omni in a full roster would have a decent amount of prey, but I was mostly using it as an example. The same should apply to any playable. It should be viable solo, on it's own, not requiring a group to handle itself.

[amber cosmos]

yeah well another issue is its shown hunting stego with a pair, unless alberto has a higher biteforce then deino thats not going to end well. spoiler alert it wont

[weak dune]

Fair enough

[amber cosmos]

technically if omni had the numbers it could kill and eat anything without good bleed resist

[lucid mauve]

Alberto gonna be OP if devs had that in mind when they made the concept for stego. 2 can take a stego down, and that is an apex . So 4 can wipe apexes with ease, if that happends skill is non exsistense. Only numbers

[amber cosmos]

stego isnt an apex i challenge you to find a dev saying it is

[lucid mauve]

It is lol

[cyan flame]

Yes, omni is ... quite the powerful critter :p

[amber cosmos]

find me the dev quote

[weak dune]

I think stego is a pseudo-apex, isn't it?

[lucid mauve]

Erik you have it?

[cyan flame]

Give me a moment.

[lucid mauve]

Im on phone so hard to find

[cyan flame]

Didn't we have this talk here earlier?...

[amber cosmos]

not sure

[lucid mauve]

Yea, kissen said its ape

[amber cosmos]

link to me pls

[lucid mauve]

They will remove it soon and add more tools for it

Ok sec

[amber cosmos]

thats not the same as being an apex, the same people claim deino isnt an apex but its getting a new kit too so

[amber cosmos]

thats what the players call it, id consider legacy acro a pseudo apex

i have yet to be shown where a dev has called the stego an apex

[weak dune]

I think people assume stego is an apex because it can roflstomp Deino, which I'm pretty sure is an actual apex. But just because Stego can hold its own against Deino doesn't make it an apex, it just means you don't mess with the pointy end

[lucid mauve]

#isle-discussion message

[amber cosmos]

you linked me literally nothing, it says its going to community servers not that its an apex

[lucid mauve]

Deino apex? How? With it measly 500 dmg? Thats like 20 hits to kill a spino or someting and zero ability va bigger guys

[cyan flame]

That was with someone else. And while she never, from what I can find right now, explicitly said it's an apex, she talked about it going to unofficials with rex and trike, as well as that it would get new kit that no one but the stego players would enjoy. As well as that part of why stego was allowed was because it was easy enough to avoid, while rex and trike would have much further reaching impact and so on. And that they remove stego but not deino because stego can take its power everywhere, while deino can not. I don't know if she ever at some point called it an apex, though I thought I saw something about that somewhere at least as well.

[lucid mauve]

Im on phone but read what kissen said around that time

[amber cosmos]

infact they state the reason its being removed from community servers is to work on the model as well as its kit, the reason deino is staying is cause the model is the same, which to me also shows they are making stego 8ton

[cyan flame]

No, deino is if anything, the playable that has been more or less said to not be an apex, or at least not one contending with things like spino.

[cyan flame]

I can't find anything about the 8T stego at all, I need you to help me out there :p

[weak dune]

I did say "pretty sure". But if its not an apex then shrugs

It is bigger than Stego though

[amber cosmos]

what would they be doing with the model erik if its getting stronger?

[lucid mauve]

It has grab tho, and thats darn good. But not vs bigger guys

[weak dune]

Oh yeah its grab is basically a 1-tap. Which does work against stego as well, just not full grown stego

I don't remember what percentage stego becomes immune to grabs, but I'm pretty sure its over 70%

[lucid mauve]

But deino will loose grab later, to many people complain. And devs listen to those who scream highest lol

[weak dune]

Will it?

[cyan flame]

#isle-discussion message I guess this might be the closest, the reference to community only apex.

[lucid mauve]

Noone have said it, its just what i think lol

[amber cosmos]

i honestly think it will lose grab and get bone break instead

[cyan flame]

No nevermind, you were correct. Here: #isle-discussion message It is technically an apex at least.

[cyan flame]

I don't recall them saying they'll be doing anything with the model?

Also why would the model need to change for a weight change unless it's sufficiently large to demand an upsize/downsize

[lucid mauve]

Darn, they said its not an apex last time lol

[weak dune]

Yeah I thought it was

Stego, at least up til now, has been more a psuedo-apex I think

But again, since it roflstomps Deinos, people have considered it an apex

[amber cosmos]

to make the model bigger

[cyan flame]

I've not seen or heard anything about that either, you're going to have to find me the statements on those things I'm afraid xD

[cyan flame]

More so that it falls in line due to power and size and all. And well, with new kit, it seems like they might both end up being more or less true apexes, though deino limited to water still, more or less.

[amber cosmos]

i mean i think this is where i said i wasnt gonna look through 6k msgs to find it cause im lazy

[weak dune]

Question is are their new kits going to be upgrades or downgrades

[amber cosmos]

upgrades for both, the gateway map is considered a nerf to deino because it adds lakes for people to drink out of

[cyan flame]

Well, I don't find anything from Kissen concerning it if I search with larger size or 8T and stego, so not sure then

[amber cosmos]

but both are getting upgrades probably

[cyan flame]

Hopefully upgrades... xD

[weak dune]

I mean depending on the lake, that seems like an advantage for Deino moreso than a hindrance. Unless, like was said, grab is getting taken away, because now you won't be drowning things anymore

[amber cosmos]

i think deino will get the upward lunge attack and it will be used to grab tall deinos by the neck like sucho or rex for example but im just spit balling and hoping lol

[amber cosmos]

an adult deino will die trying to get to it from thirst

[weak dune]

oof.

[amber cosmos]

if a deino wants to live in a lake it has to run to it across land when its pretty small meaning other things can kill it like carno

also means it will literally be stuck at the lake until it dies

[weak dune]

sounds like center pond all over again

[amber cosmos]

not really

there are more then one lake

[weak dune]

I mean. There was more than one pond lol

Haven't played gateway tho so I can't really speak to it

[amber cosmos]

you talking about spiro or what map? spiro only has rivers

[weak dune]

Spiro has the swamp + it used to have multiple ponds. Center pond was just disconnected from all the rivers whereas the others weren't

That big mud pit with trash in it in center plains used to be center pond

[amber cosmos]

nobody goes to swamp and its connected by rivers

[weak dune]

Yeah but people did go to south pond and center pond. Like. Religiously

[amber cosmos]

gateway is bigger then spiro and the lakes are nowhere near rivers

[pseudo copper]

@delicate spindle FYI - #isle-discussion message

[amber cosmos]

i mean to be fair what dev is going to say they dont listen to their community? seems redundant to even have this convo

[jade brook]

i feel like some people just want the vanity of validity more than being listened to...

"look at me, look at me! i was chosen!"

might just be my bad faith

[amber cosmos]

? i dont know what your refencing or are you talking about a different topic?

[jade brook]

i'm speaking about all the ask for dev's reponse and acknowledment to feedback. AS if they didn't already, and as if those response mattered more than the feedback being taken in consideration

[amber cosmos]

oh yeah lol

i really dont care if they read it or not id rather the community agree with me then the devs

[jade brook]

If that's the point, to me that's the same

i give feedbacks and suggestions not to be agreed with, personnally

sometimes i'm not even sure my own point is valid, but want things to be talked about

[iron relic]

@midnight stirrup Here are my thoughts on the omni pounce. I think the pounce started very strong with its initial damage mechanic but once they removed it they only continued to nerf it. Because of said nerfs it was super weak. So they got rid of the punishment for missing it without making it stronger. Currently there is even a bug where you can hit the Omni or troodon while it’s on you. Anyone who wants the buff to be reverted because Omnis pounce was supposed to be a high risk high reward ability is wrong because the current pounce has no high reward. I don’t mind it having the miss stun but if you add a miss stun to a weak pounce, you get a useless weapon.

[jade brook]

@full canopy There is a queue system

[cyan flame]

The pounce was never nerfed, it's always been very powerful. The current pounce is quite lethal, currently it is, aside from bugs, no risk and all the reward. There should absolutely be some kind of punishement, otherwise there's little to no room to catch and punish an omni, unless you're a stego possibly.

[jovial hazel]

Pounce is still pretty strong.

It's not about damage, though.

[iron relic]

There was 2 different patches that actually got rid of some damage increased the steam usage, and the initial damage removal. I would say it was nerfed.

[cyan flame]

Pounce was always lethal, to more or less degree, it was just that bugs made pouncing itself quite... unreliable shall we say. Hence the pounce power is probably still a touch too good, if we go with the idea and hopefully reality that the mechanics work as it should.

[cyan flame]

You know it's the bleed that's the scary part, right?

[jovial hazel]

There's no way in any world where pounce should have no miss animation at all.

[cyan flame]

Pounce only had damage that time back when it melted stegos in one group pounce and all

[iron relic]

I main Omni and 1 out of 4 of my kills are because of bleed

[jovial hazel]

You literally gain speed from pouncing.

[cyan flame]

Then you're either only attacking small things, or you're ... I don't know, not using omni as its meant to do

[jovial hazel]

You can chase down another omni by pouncing after them.

[jade brook]

i think punishment should be high stamina cost, so it can't be repeated. And the damage should be progressive on lenght, instead of rewarding tap pounces. But i'm abosolutly against a stun on miss

[cyan flame]

Because the entire thing with omni is that the pounce does lethal bleed, but very little damage

[iron relic]

That’s crazy how would you recommend I play Omni then

[jovial hazel]

Bleed.

[cyan flame]

I've seen suggestions such as a slowdown, or acceleration thing, so you can move, but much slower. I'd do that, and add a stamina cost as well, so you can't just spam pounce in general.

[jovial hazel]

If you are killing with damage you are taking too many risks.

[cyan flame]

Currently, you tap pounce, and stack bleed. Or so I've heard the thing is. But I'm not so much recommending things, I am simply telling you that the pounce, ever since it got bleed tuned, has always done very little damage, but extremely high bleed for the ability. It had an extra high bleed in relation to damage multiplier even.

[iron relic]

I disagree most of the time you can take a couple of carno bites and a couple of Cerato bites so if your in a pack you can consistently add damage without risking dying because you just switch out.

[cyan flame]

So if you consistently kill by raw damage, well, then you're either very good, fight very different fights from what most omnis do, or you just don't have the patience for bleed to kill perhaps, I don't know

Or maybe tap pounces do very high damage for some reason these days

[iron relic]

I’ll tell you this the tap pounce to stack bleed is only worth it against stevia and crocs

[cyan flame]

I honestly don't know, I'm not trying to really say you're doing it wrong, more so pointing out that the strength in pounce has always been bleed

So if you're judging the pounce power based on damage, you're just not looking at the pounce the way its meant to be used

[cyan flame]

Do you still use the pounce against other things?

[jovial hazel]

You are definitely a better raptor than me by far if you are killing ceras with bites.

[cyan flame]

Or do you kill them via bite?

[iron relic]

Yes but it’s typically not even necessary

[jade brook]

? Crocs are naturally resistant to bleed, and have faster bleed regen

[iron relic]

That still doesn’t make them immune

[jovial hazel]

Yeah, and killing crocs on raptor...

[iron relic]

They have a lot of health killing them via bite is crazy

So you have to bleed them out

Same thing with stego

[jovial hazel]

I don't think we're playing the same game.

[jade brook]

i don't think either, this is weird

[iron relic]

Bruh what do you mean

[cyan flame]

Well, he did say he uses tap pounces vs deino and stego, so that checks out

Im more so curious what you do vs teno or pachy or carno?

Do you kill them with bites, with raw damage from pounce (if so, pounce needs a look at honestly), or do you kill them via bleed but does not realize it perhaps?

I don't know, can you tell very well if the thing that just dropped did so due to bleed or damage?

[jade brook]

^

anything that you can't pin, it's bleed that's gonna get them, unless you are not using it

[iron relic]

The raw damage from a pounce isn’t enough to kill them but it’s a good finisher because you don’t have to risk biting them at end and take a kick, charge, headbutt to the face. I will say the only time I can tell if they die by bleed is if no one was attacking them and they just died

[cyan flame]

To be fair, it can also be hard to tell how far away from bleedout something is

[iron relic]

It’s not hard it’s basically impossible unless you have tested it on a personal server

[desert arch]

Pounce does patchetic amounts of damage, a full, 21 second pounce is around 300dmg iirc

[cyan flame]

But yes, I can see the smaller critters die to damage, but you could keep in mind them bleeding out probably helps you a lot since they'll be out of stam and incapable of regenerating much of it, which also applies to health for the regen part

[desert arch]

And not like the victim is gonna let you hang on for 21 seconds

[iron relic]

I’m not saying bleed doesn’t help or isn’t the reason pounce is decent what I’m saying is the miss stun would make the pounce bad if they don’t buff the damage. Currently I don’t think the pounce needs a nerf but if everyone wants it to be nerfed get rid of tap pouncing for bleed

Not revert the miss stun because that not the problem according to you guys

[cyan flame]

I don't think having a punishment, not a stun but something, would make it bad, since you'd still have all your bleed?

If pounce somehow works better for damage, it might need a look at for that

[desert arch]

Plus it would only punish bad players

[cyan flame]

Since that does not quite align with the idea from what I know

Yes, tap pouncing should go, if only beause that should be troodons thing, and omni and troodon should be different

[desert arch]

Pounce is extremely powerful, it definetly needs punishment if you miss it

[cyan flame]

But some form of punishment on miss of pounce is probably needed, especially since you kind of have to try to miss in the first place more often than not (and then there's the facial/rear pouncing still)

[jade brook]

question about troodon: Do i have to wait to see the green splush for letting go, or is it really just a tap?

[desert arch]

Just tap

[jade brook]

i've always intuitively waited for the green stuff effect ^^"

[desert arch]

But if you want to be less predictable you can hold on for a miniscule amount of extra bleed

[cyan flame]

From what I know, it is just a tap

Impact = result

[jade brook]

👍

[cyan flame]

But you could probably test that with someone if you need. But last I heard, troodon only holds on for the purpose of being harder to predict when it dismounts

[desert arch]

If im not mistaken you apply a tiny bit more bleed too

But not enough to make much of a difference

And its only for the first few seconds

[jade brook]

Have i'd known that only tap was needed, i might had survived some of the alt attacks killing me while mounted

Does bleed still drop more blood to track or has that changed?

like the more you are losing blood, the more it drops

[jovial hazel]

Yeah, bleed amount will cause more blood drops.

[jade brook]

aight

[jovial hazel]

It's been toned down a good bit though.

All tracking has, for the most part.

[jade brook]

yeah, i noticed that

i mean it was clearly too easy a while ago, but now, it`s irrelevant

[jovial hazel]

Yeah

It doesn't need to go back to what it was, but it has to be tweaked some.

[jade brook]

makes me almost miss Legacy tracking

[jovial hazel]

Once you figure out the mechanic it's not too bad, i think the visibility of tracks and blood in forests needs to be better.

If it's night you can actually turn off night vision and see it better.. but during the day it's useless.

Which is kind of weird, being easier to track at night.

[jade brook]

the white tracks on a grey scale nightvision sure isn`t great

well it`s weird for humans, but considering it is smell based

[jovial hazel]

True

[jade brook]

it should be neither harder nor easier

maybe blood drops should appears on the compass?

or maybe not drops but just a red highlight of the compass

to avoid clutter

idk

[desert arch]

If you press q over a footprint/blood track you can begin to track that player. Tracking will highlight their footsteps with bright blue, the highlighted footprints can be seen through foliage.

Its not every single footprint though

[jade brook]

i know that, but noticing the inactive white tracks is hard, and the pale blue of active tracks are better but still hard, especially at the rate they drop now

[desert arch]

My bad then, sorry for the ping.

[jade brook]

np

[desert arch]

The current tracking system isnt the best, but I had my moments with it, especially at night

[jade brook]

the only place it worked for me was center, where lots of people just forego subtlety

like, a screaming galli is easy to find, tracking or not

[odd whale]

I once tracked a Cera with a goup for 20 min through the jungle eventually we lost him. The tracking works but I also admit it’s not the greatest… however if they actually add the feature where the trees will get knocked over when you walk past them that could improve tracking soo much…

[jade brook]

or if they could be some traces on vegetation where they brushed on

[odd whale]

Yea… I mean the tracking kinda works and kinda doesn’t it’s a hit and miss as it currently is

I think when you smell a certain blood as in marking it it should be visible on the compas so you can actually track and follow it like a bloodhound 😂

[jade brook]

so that tracking would work at least *a bit * in the forest

right now i`m even losing goats

[odd whale]

Well I never even see goats to begin with 😂 or any AI is very rare for me… the only AI I see occasionaly are boars when I play baby raptor and even then they mostly oneshot me… If I see a rabiat its almost for a second before it’s gone in the vegetation never to be seen again

Anyhow gtg got work tomorrow have a good one…

[jade brook]

you too

goats are hard to find to begin with, when they hide in the dense forest

[vital laurel]

"ThIs GaMe SuCKs"
-the sucker who has time to cope about a dinosaur game on its discord server instead of: touching grass, talking to a friend, going to a public place and have fun or just uninstalling trying to refund and play another game and enjoy his time.

[stable rain]

"Alright we should not disrespect others" 🤓

[limber hull]

why give anky 5400 health that'd make it so small lol

[stable rain]

anky itself is small

making it have the same health as a deino even though it is half the size would be unreasonable and for balance reasons it has 40% more armor meaning it technially has more health

[limber hull]

also i personally still stand by the belief that most animals on the roster should do absolutely nothing to an anky. to the point that i believe only rexes and spinos are legitimate threats to it

[limber hull]

from a balance standpoint it is more than likely slower than all of the roster

[stable rain]

good point

[limber hull]

even a spino would be able to sprint it down

like if i saw a pack of omnis as an anky, i shouldn't be "resistant" to the omnis, i should be IMMUNE

[stable rain]

i mean just dont want it to be invincible if you know what i mean, as if it would have say double that health (seeing as it takes 40% less damage it technically has 13,500 health) it would be quite franky the tankest thing as shant shouldnt have any more health than that

[stable rain]

yuh

[limber hull]

i personally want anky to feel goddamn invincible unless it's to the specific prior apex carnis

[sudden arrow]

Basically just like the cera

[limber hull]

like a giga should get folded by an anky, only rex and spino actually stand a chance

[limber hull]

the cera is resistant, that's not good enough

i want an omni to pounce on an anky and do zero damage and zero bleed

because its pitiful little claws can't pierce through this behemoth's armour

[stable rain]

I agree, but with rex I dont think it should be a 100% kill, as anky should still be able to kill an unwary rex

[sudden arrow]

I doubt a omni would go for a anky

[limber hull]

i think rex and spino should be the only ones who stand a chance of killing it

everything else is pretty much out of luck

[stable rain]

yeah basically, well thats solo as I think a group of acros should be a rather difficult fight for anky

[limber hull]

personally i hate acro's concept and think acro should get obliterated unapologetically by anky but that's just me

acro's concept is the only concept art i've ever actually disliked

[stable rain]

well im talking like 4 acros not just a duo

[limber hull]

aren't acros bleeder animals, hence making anky resistant to their entire playstyle

[stable rain]

the only thing I do think is if anything gets to anky's underbelly it should basically be over for anky

[limber hull]

you'd have to be tiny

in which case anky can literally flatten you

[stable rain]

Or a spino, and maybe sucho/bary (They should only be able to flip over juvi/sub ankys)

and deinos should be unable to snatch adult/sub ankys

[limber hull]

i mean, deinos shouldn't snatch ankys because i'd personally put them above the 8 ton mark

[stable rain]

well i personally think deinos need a damage buff, atleast whenever more apexes come as they are meant to have a strong bite force and to be able to tussle with apexes.. But if they are struggling with carnos and ceras any apex is going to make it extinct as spinos and deinocherius are going to practially run it out of the water

[limber hull]

i mean, tussling with apexes would probably make deinos unequivically busted

and i wouldn't about cherius, since they're wader animals they will basically rarely ever interact with deinos

[sudden arrow]

Isn’t deino considered an apex

[stable rain]

Or it should be somewhat fast in water so it can outspeed spinos

[stable rain]

yeah

[limber hull]

according to devs, nope

it's below apex

[limber hull]

me when my only escape is swimming fast and ponds, lakes and droughts are getting added

[stable rain]

real

[limber hull]

idk the entire "spino stomps deino" thing really doesnt vibe with me personally

i think deino should be unapologetically destroyed by any apex in a situation that isn't notably deep water

but i feel deino should probably be able to defend itself also

[sudden arrow]

yeah we dont know for sure if its gonna stomp it but it did show a spino having the upper hand in the concept art

[limber hull]

based on devs statements, deino's getting stomped to death

[stable rain]

devs also said magy is faster than allo

[rare fractal]

I mean

If that's what they want, it'll be that

[sudden arrow]

whats ur guys most awaited dino

[limber hull]

it was troodon so i guess it's herrera now

since i already got what i wanted

[rare fractal]

Herrera kentro

That's what it's always been

[stable rain]

Probably para

[sudden arrow]

i cant wait for megalania

[rare fractal]

Meg is something that worries me

Which is why I'm not excited for it, but I want the ideal version of it

[sudden arrow]

I just wonder how will the bite be

[limber hull]

partly looking forward to sucho but only because the concept art gave me EXACTLY what I wanted, which is a semi-aquatic not doomed to constantly be on deino duty

[stable rain]

meg is either going to be good, busted or terrible

[limber hull]

i just wanted the goddamn wader and i got it

[amber cosmos]

im waiting for allo and acro

[cyan flame]

Isn't anky these days about 9T or so? If we go by weight/health, it'd be quite the hefty critter, and with armor on top, probably one of the hardest things bar a sauropod to beat up to any significant degree :p

[limber hull]

as it should be

[limber hull]

new fave feedback post

[polar ore]

@diratycheater Your stupiy or something ?

[sinful yoke]

me..?

[limber hull]

dont be mean

[acoustic yoke]

You might want to read your own post before calling someone else out.

[sinful yoke]

why not ceratis biger?

[limber hull]

they aren't apexes

they're small-sized scavenger bullies

think more like a honey badger than a lion

[polar ore]

@acoustic yoke How

[stone hatch]

W kindness enjoyer

[sinful yoke]

they r sapex in the isle

[warped fog]

late to the convo but yes omni should absolutely be able to be punished if it misses its pounce, severely at that.

1. Reintroduce endlag for missing a pounce, at a 1.5-2 second animation.
2. Increase bleed inflicted by 25%
3. Make the latched on bite window smaller, so alt bite spammers are less likely to land a hit on an omni that has pounced onto it

[limber hull]

if they're apexes, why do they need to be bigger

[sinful yoke]

because they need to be big as apex dinosaur

[limber hull]

hes doing his goddamn best and i respect that

[limber hull]

okay but they aren't supposed to be big because their role is small bully scavenger not big bully scavenger

[stone hatch]

They are not intended to be an apex dinosaur. The apex carnivorous dinosaurs are going to be rex, giga, spino and likely acro

[limber hull]

i hope not acro

[stone hatch]

Same we desperately need a psuedo apex

[warped fog]

Can't wait for mods so we can make a 10T 20ft tall cera specifically for this guy

[limber hull]

as much as i DESPISE the label of pseudo apex with my heart and soul, I do want a large-tier predator besides sucho

[stone hatch]

But if its going to be the way the concept art and fat design gives off it will most def be one imo

[limber hull]

hyper cera

[warped fog]

will still somehow find a way to get alt-bit to death by any carno that lays eyes on it

[cyan flame]

@azure ruin I do not think the vomit lock is a good mechanic or idea, and cerato should not need to rely on such a unfun mechanic, just like pachy should not need o rely on stun locking things either. While I can understand the concern, I don't think reintroducing, or not adjusting something like vomit lock is a good idea when there's most likely better options. On top of that, you have to keep in mind that while you might play the scavenger role, people can and will "abuse" their playable in whatever ways they can more often than not. While you could add some form of coolddown, a temporary "immunity" to getting more vomit build up while you're vomiting, and more importantly, scale the amount of bites needed with the size of the target to vomit it in the first place, it'd probably be better if vomit lock wasn't a thing at all, unless absolutely needed. On top of that, currently bacteria/vomit is a combat application, while it could be made more interesting if it was a long term thing, so it's not just kill the cerato and be fine, or escape the cerato and be fine, but there being other risks that could make someone go no thanks to a fight with cera in the first place.

[stone hatch]

Need hyper pachy

[acoustic yoke]

Would allo fit this box?

[limber hull]

allo is very firmly a midtier, nowhere near the likes of sucho or acro

[stone hatch]

If you take the most upper and liberal suze estimates yeah but i dont think they will, for good reason

[acoustic yoke]

How about deino?

[limber hull]

i do love how cera mains have quickly taken the "mindless" title from carno mains lol

[limber hull]

deino seems to be implied to fit within this tier, same with stego, since they "aren't apexes"

[stone hatch]

Something like torvosaurus could work but honestly idk how they could make it unique between acro, allo, and alberto

[acoustic yoke]

Stego might be getting a buff and will become an apex. From what I've heard, deino might be getting nerfed

[cyan flame]

1. Just add A, an extra stamina cost for a missed pounce and B, a slowdown/accel requreiment like carno to get back to speed so there's room for punishment. That might be a good start. I doubt the pounce needs more bleed, far as I know it's already probably more lethal than outright neccesary, though it could be more so that pounce has other issues such as face/tail pouncing and so on. As for the alt bites, I'm pretty sure it'll be fixed, I don't believe you're intended to be able to hit an omni/troodon that is latched on to you, much as it would make sense for certain playables to be able to do that during bucking or otherwise.

[sinful yoke]

and braciosaurus?

[limber hull]

torvo would literally just kinda fall into the very generic therapods, and as you said, we have three

[limber hull]

brachi is beyond apex lol, it's a goddamn titan

[warped fog]

It’s not the ceras fault carno absolutely denies its life just by spamming alt bite 🥲

[cyan flame]

Deino won't be nerfed as much as made properly difficult to grow and sustain as hopefully. Which should be the case for stego and the apexes as well.

[limber hull]

kinda is because ceras think facetanking is still viable

[acoustic yoke]

Are there many more carnivorous dinosaurs which were not therapods? I cannot think of many outside of the birds and lizard dinos

[stone hatch]

I just like that its a megalosaurid which is honestly as unique a large land theropod carnivore will get in a game

[limber hull]

not really no

[acoustic yoke]

Dimetrodon would be funny to see, but I wouldn't know how they'd compete against other creatures in the isle

[stone hatch]

Some people think that ceratopsians were omnivores more like pigs that would eat actual corpses not just small animals like galli or beipi

Idk about that thoooo

[warped fog]

Sadly there’s not much else it can do, it can’t run, it can’t trade (a charge bite for 1-2 alt bites results in death). Cera just needs a complete rebalance

[acoustic yoke]

The isle could make some traditional herbis into carnis.

Iguanodon would be terrifying

[limber hull]

thing is, it's been equipped with a plethora of survival tools players just ignore

it is THE most capable in the water out of any of the land animals, it has agility to easily weave in forests which just screws over carnos, insane stam, vomit to dissuade enemies, bodies grant it damage resist, people choose to play carelessly because they assume that they'll come out on top

[stone hatch]

Inevitably to balance a game with multiple “classes” there will end up being things you can’t escape or reliably 1v1 with raw power

Imo carno shouldnt have been in the game so early because it immediately causes this problem with everything and without something that can do the same to it, it is just a nightmare to balance

[warped fog]

It’s not ‘during’, the actual bite tends to hit the omni AS its pouncing, the sound effect just plays afterwards. Though sometimes dinos can alt-bite omnis AFTER they’re pounced on, that’s definitely a bug.

Also an extra stamina cost is hardly a punishment, that just means the omni has to hide away for an extra 5 seconds. It needs something that will potentially damage it.
And getting slowed if it misses is understandable but it’d have to be a BIG slow, like 90% or more. Otherwise it will rarely be exploitable.

The increased bleed is a compensation, if you’re going to increase the risk of pounce you need to also increase the reward. And of course pounce SHOULD be high risk high reward

[limber hull]

The "hit you while latched" thing is def a known bug, which is good

[stone hatch]

However, ur dino is faster to grow, has significantly more stamina, has body butf, can make it vomit and lose its stam, can swim the best, etc. Sometimes escape tools like thie are just necessary. This is not a good example, but say there is a winston jumping on you as a genji in overwatch. You are equally mobile but he has nearly triple your HP. If you just save your dash until he jumps, and then dash after his movement is gone he cant follow you. Workarounds like this can very well work in situations where there is an overpowering threat that has similar mobility to you

[limber hull]

I tend to not want to walk straight into the middle of open plains as cera

Especially a solo cera

[warped fog]

Carno actually has better stam than cera if you do a certain thing but I’m gatekeeping it so people don’t learn it, but trust me it exists

[stone hatch]

For example, I used to main teno and have no friends. I avoided the plains like the plague and stayed near rocks, water and cliffs. It worked quite well despite my horrible combat skill as I consistently lost 1v1s with carnos back then

[limber hull]

if its the diet thing, i'm aware that the diets are completely busted

[acoustic yoke]

Cera is insane right now. It's pretty easy to survive as cera. You can smell bodies from a long distance away, and you dont have to worry about whether the body is rotting or not.

They got great stamina, and while they cant 1v1 a carno, that's okay. There's usually 5 ceras nearby which will kill the carno anyway.

[warped fog]

No not that

[limber hull]

cera is nuts, yea

[stone hatch]

Cera has the best matchup with literally every dino except carno.

U could argue not stego or deino obv

[fleet hound]

I think cera is fine

[acoustic yoke]

And deino. But only stego can 1v1 deino

I typed faster than I read lmao

[stone hatch]

As a raptor i would rather fight q carno 1v1 than a cera 100% of the time

[warped fog]

I don’t see adult ceras anymore. Duos or trios of carnos come by, wipe em out, then leave. It’s happened all over the EU servers. It’s tempting me to go canni carno just to give ceras a chance

[stone hatch]

No way

Bro all i see is ceras

[cyan flame]

If it's a matter of being hit while the omni/troodon is airborne, I do not see that as an issue at all, that's one of the few times the playable is actually vunerable and where you can counter the pounce properly. But you did phrase it as "has pounced onto it" I believe, which makes it sound as if the omni had landed the pounce, and thus was hit while being latched. If it seems off with being hit vs if you landed or not, it's mostly lag/latency from what I know. And I agree, hence why I did mention the slowdown/accel as well, so it's not a stun/locked in place, but still opens the omni for punishment. The added stamina is mostly so it can't just spam pounces, or miss 2-3 in a row and still go for an attack for example. After all, the values could be adjusted to be quite harsh if needed on that account. Same with the potential slow/accel thing. Im honestly not sure pounce should be this high risk/high reward, but then I don't consider pounce high risk at all really. But I don't think "compensation" is needed, from what I know the bleed is lethal, and has in general been compensated when pounce has not worked properly at all. Hence when pounce do work properly, the bleed is more than fine, if not too good even. As it stands, omni is very lethal when it does work, and there's little risk in it's pounce when the game performs as well.

[acoustic yoke]

Have you played any playable except cera recently? Ceras got it easy compared to carno right now.

[warped fog]

I just go carno now. Don’t bother with cera anymore

[stone hatch]

Whats really extinct rn is herbis in general besides stego. Unwarrantedly nerfing the two herbis that could actually fight things and also run ends up tipping the balance, who wouldve thought

Something like dibble would save the game experience for me

[limber hull]

Even stego, vomitlock is brutal

[cyan flame]

Kentro would be a welcome addition!

[stone hatch]

It is good against stego ofc but I just meant you could possibly argue raptor is better (eh…)

[warped fog]

Compensation is definitely needed if you’re going to nerf an already weak dino.

[limber hull]

I feel that the nerfs were designed to help cerato, since cerato got literally slammed to death with ease in ST, but unfortuantly, this comes with the side-effect of just... Nerfing teno. I honestly feel many of the complaints in the ST with the cera/teno matchup was a lot of ceras having no idea what they were doing

also the bold assumption that a cera should've been fighting teno in the first place

[cyan flame]

I'd agree, if omni was weak, but it's not, at all. Omni is one of the better playables, when things work properly, which is an issue with performance/bugs rather than any form of stat or mechanic issue with the playable. There's a reason omni tends to be quite op when it does work, and useless otherwise (because if it bugs out, obviously things don't go well).

[stone hatch]

Teno is extremely easy to bait, and if it runs out of stam its just dead to anything, i think it was more than fine

[limber hull]

frankly i stand by the fact that skilled tenos should be absolute menaces

[cyan flame]

That should apply to most playables, we need more teno-style playables!

[limber hull]

a solo teno SHOULD be able to hold its own competently in a 1v1 against anything, bar-deino/stego

[stone hatch]

Reminds me of a wild bronco/ass just caving in skulls with its hoofs

[acoustic yoke]

Herbis should be able to make a carnivore think twice about attacking them. I dislike it so much when people underestimate herbivores.

Cape Buffalo are responsible for about 200 human deaths a year. Sharks kill less than 10 people a year.

[stone hatch]

Except it can run for 1/10th as long as them

[limber hull]

yea, agreed, herbis need more love, i truly believe every one of our current herbivores are underpowered (yes, even stego, despite how controversial this take may be)

[acoustic yoke]

A good cera can kill stego. Once a stego is out of stamina, they're near useless

[limber hull]

exactly

[acoustic yoke]

I took down a poor stego the other day by baiting tail swipes

[limber hull]

also stego is easy as all hell to bait and kinda pathetic when you look at it statistically beyond its big damage number

deino has infinitely more going for it

[stone hatch]

Personally I think the only reason stego feels worse rn is because of vomitlock. I like its current state. Killable by competent packs of raptors, but as a carno its just awful to fight one

[warped fog]

You’re just incorrect. Omni is fun so people spam grow it but constantly die whenever they fight something that isn’t a juve. This isn’t even including bugs, since alt bite is so op right now you can just bait omnis and alt bite them as they pounce into you. It’s easy to survive and grow as, sure. But its combat capabilities are deceptively weak. It’s a hypsi that thinks it can fight combat creatures.

[acoustic yoke]

Vomitlock isnt around anymore

[limber hull]

personally i feel stego has been reduced WAY below what it should be, which is why I'm happy they're putting it with rexes and then balancing to account for it

stego buffs are needed

if rex is to be added shortly

[stone hatch]

Honestly I like the idea of slightly nerfing a dino until competition arrives

incoming flame lol

[acoustic yoke]

If stego isnt buffed to match rex, the poor thing's going to get rolled. Cant run, cant hide. It has to be able to fight

[limber hull]

(unless they buff it to a point where it can run from rex, which would be as funny as it would be absolutely disappointing for the animal)

[warped fog]

I think stego should be weaker but faster than rex tbh. It’s always been a sort of pseudo apex

[cyan flame]

No, not at all. Omni is quite powerful, it's always been, the biggest issue has always been the bugs and similar issues, of which it, like carno, has been compensated for with stats. Thats why U5-5.5 (or somewhere there) omni was very op, when magnetic pounce and everything worked just fine. Even if they take a hit, one, it doesn't actually stop the pounce, unless the omni actually dies, and well, they're pack hunters, you can honestly "sacrifice" a hit if needed, but well, pack hunter, use distractions and all that. Not that you need much of that vs carno, 2 omnis can take one quite well, and most other things are also pretty easy to handle, far more than they should be, aside from maybe cera because well, cera is a bit overtuned. Omni has very good capabilities in combat, it's very agile, has a very easy to use and very powerful mechanic in the form of pounce, and comes in numbers where it can trade off if needed with others, while the target if bled just a bit struggles to do all too much. Currently tap pounces are also way more lethal and effective than they should be, so it has that going for it too.

[limber hull]

lmao god no

because that would be a RIDICULOUSLY fast stego

[cyan flame]

If you for some reason think that omni is weak, I don't know, the pounce is more or less as powerful as it's always been, bucking got nerfed again to be less powerful, and now it has no moment of weakness/punishment for the misssed pounce, meaning it's borderline impossible to even catch in the first place.

[limber hull]

we know a rex trots almost as fast as a stego sprints, so we'd need to basically double stego's current speed to evade rex

which is... hysterical

[acoustic yoke]

If rex is slower than stego, it's not going to be able to catch anything

[limber hull]

true as lol

[warped fog]

Rex should be slow af too. None of this faster than sucho and diablo rex that we got in legacy

[cyan flame]

Stego can be "weaker" than rex, and evasive/defensive while still not running from rex, since it can or should be able to fight on the move and so on

[limber hull]

yea bad news it trots about as fast as a human sprints in EVRIMA

[cyan flame]

I don't know, but I think we're getting a decently fast rex, though maybe not with the very high ambush speed from legacy

But endurance rex would be cool to be honest

[limber hull]

and a human sprint is SLIGHTLY slower than a stego sprint in EVRIMA

by that logic, a rex can literally chase a stego without ever pressing shift

doesn't need to

[stone hatch]

The speed of me clicking uninstall will be unrivaled

[cyan flame]

Stego, anky, and spino should be among the slowest of the apexes/large critters. Aside from maybe big saruopods but... well, it's a very big sauropod so yeah :p

[limber hull]

In the order of stego is faster than spino which is faster than anky imho

[acoustic yoke]

I would love adult rex to be insanely difficult to achieve. I'd love for them to be both rare to see and absolutely terrifying

[cyan flame]

Yeah, that sounds good to me

[acoustic yoke]

If rare, I wouldn't mind them being walking omens of doom

[warped fog]

Get two friends and 3v1 my carno as omnis, I’ll tell you exactly how every omni encounter goes against a mid tier that actually knows how to play. I will fight in the open, get headshot alt-bites whenever you try to pounce me (Over HALF your health GONE btw), instantly buck, try to alt bite you again as you latch off. And after you’ve done all your work and one of you are probably dead. I’ll just crouch in a bush. And there’s nothing you can do beyond that point. I’ll just wait for stamina and blood to start healing then I’ll run into the tree line never to be seen again

[cyan flame]

Should go for all large/apex critters

I'd want the same for stego and deino and so on

[limber hull]

unless you're cera or abusing the current alt-bite interaction with pounce i don't see how this happens

[cyan flame]

Well, you're confident, I'll give you that.

[limber hull]

omni easily shreds carnos in duos

[cyan flame]

Sounds like he's just used to predictable omnis and well, maybe ones without much patience

[limber hull]

predictable omnis get killed, yes

[cyan flame]

I could just pounce you in the face, or even from behind, and you don't know which one of the three will pounce, so yeah, sure you might be lucky with alt, but luck won't save you

[barren crater]

You don't even need that many tap pounces to force a Carno to stand still

[cyan flame]

Or you know, one of us runs in, baits an alt bite, and the other pounce

[barren crater]

And if it's in the open, then yeah it's over

[limber hull]

you can (and should) tank a buck rather than dismount, or at least mixup your dismounts, since most players will buck and then cancel into alt-bite to kill you

[warped fog]

Just killed 5 full growns today as carno by crouching in a bush and alt biting whenever they tried to find me. You can claim skill issue but honestly nothing they could’ve done. I was still 40% blood after. One was very good but I just waited for stamina to fill then ran it all away

[limber hull]

that's def the alt-bite glitch

if you just spam alt-bite against pouncers atm, they can't win

because the alt-bite likes to hit you even while on your target

this is a real bug the devs are trying to resolve

[cyan flame]

Yeah, if it hits you while you're already latched on, well, that's obviously going to be an issue

[limber hull]

it's not a latency thing, it's a new known issue

[warped fog]

You hit the omnis as they’re airborne, the sound just plays after they’ve latched on

[cyan flame]

Which would come back to the claim that omni is lethal, when it works

[limber hull]

even if they are latched on, there's like a whole one second window where the game will let you land a free alt-bite

[cyan flame]

In any case, yes you can catch omnis with the alt bite, good omnis would be aware of and plan for that I'd say

[warped fog]

It’s much less forgiving when I play carno, isle moment. I have to click the alt bite before they even pounce

[cyan flame]

If you successfully continously catch them on the alt bite, well, that'd be some kind of skill issue on the part of the omnis

[warped fog]

Not when I use bush meta

[cyan flame]

You can only alt bite in one direction after all

[limber hull]

also the fact omnis send you packing into a bush as the "small-game plains predator" should probably show there's a problem :P

[cyan flame]

And here I thought we'd actually judge the playables based on their mechanics and stats, and you know, skill. If we're arguing like that, we could also say omnis just juke carno and run away, and never die to it. Get up on rocks, or jump across river. Or we'd argue that stego is extremely well designed because it can stand next to a cliff, instead of recognizing that stego that relies on it's own abilities and skill, dies to a trior or so of omnis if they are patient and know how to distract and dismount.

Also yes, that too :p Why do you need to hide in a bush, you're a carno, you're meant to hunt those things down :p

Last I heard, a pair/trio of omnis basically forces carno to use terrain such as cliffs/rocks or so on to have a chance

[warped fog]

It was a 6v1, 6 other humans behind a screen. With 6 brains and 6 angles of attack vs my one. They should’ve killed me honestly

[cyan flame]

Yeah, I agree, but then with the Isle playerbase... xD

[limber hull]

and the fact they didn't means they're around basic isle players

[cyan flame]

Which is why I tend to look and argue out of stats and all, rather than say it's just skill. Same with how a single stego can kill 3+ deinos

Yes, it can happen, if the deinos are dumb as doorknobs. But sheer stats say that if they play correctly, the stego inevitably dies in that fight

Hence, my claim that omni is not weak, is based on how lethal the pounce itself actually is, how effective tap pounces are, and so on