general-feedback-discussion

[limber hull]

what

that's just entirely absurd

if it was for blunt damage, it'd be designed like an anky tail

[barren zephyr]

why do stegos have spikes on theit back? do they like suplex someone and drop on them back first?

they are meant for intimidation

[urban flax]

They're not spikes
They're plates

[stray spruce]

It is interesting that so many people think stego is OP. It is not. It is literally the slowest non-aquatic playable. You can ignore stegos and go away drink/eat/rest somewhere else.

[limber hull]

the plates on their back were more than likely for defence purposes and display purposes

the spikes on its tail was to kill things, really fast

[barren zephyr]

ye I don't mean permanently stuck, for a few seconds, and stamina penalty while getting free

[limber hull]

yea, not even mentioning that troodons, omnis and ceras can do very well at killing it, same as any pair of competent deinos

[urban flax]

Getting stuck at all is a stupid trope

[limber hull]

that doesn't make any sense logically speaking

if the tail was barbed, then sure

[urban flax]

And it's both absurd and stupid as a game mechanic

[barren zephyr]

herbivores evelved for defence, those spikes are meant to look scary for predators

[limber hull]

the spikes were designed to kill the predators, the plates were designed for display

[urban flax]

The fact they evolved for defence is the reason those spikes are on its tail and not inside of stego's mouth

Next he's gonna say elephants' tusks are for display only

[barren zephyr]

they were not designed, stegos evolved

nobody made them

[barren zephyr]

mainly yes

[urban flax]

bruh

[limber hull]

semantics

if a stego couldn't obliterate an allo, it wouldn't be able to survive

[limber hull]

trunks have massive value in the defensive capability of the animal

much like stego's thagomizers

[stray spruce]

bro that lion has teeth its op. god please remove them

[barren zephyr]

if nobody wanted to throw down with stego it survive

[urban flax]

What kinda of argument is that ?

[limber hull]

No one wants to throw down with one due to the threat of instant death

[urban flax]

They could work as intimidation if intimidation had any meaning in the game

[barren zephyr]

none of us were there and saw how they used their tail, you can't say your version of the story is the right one

[urban flax]

But a juvie omni will gladly jump on an adult stego trying to kill it if given the chance

No matter how many times the stego 3-called

[barren zephyr]

was it a threat or an illusion of threat

[urban flax]

As I said we found fossils of dinos that got impaled by stegos

[limber hull]

Name one animal that survives off the illusion of threat at THAT size

[stray spruce]

That is why science exists lol

[barren zephyr]

those are humans not animals

[barren zephyr]

stego

[limber hull]

Also, yes, we have scientific evidence of Stego's victims

[limber hull]

So you can't name one lol

[small anchor]

1, 2, 3, - Deino only bodyguard if body is near water. (It is supposed to, it's a carnivore. Stego has nothing to do near bodies. It's not supposed to corrupt a gameplay like that.
Deino can be accepted, due to being a carnivore, it is fighting for food. What is the stego fighting to? To corrupt the gameplay, troll, act like "The king of the island", annoy. Theres no other way to name this attitude. And i can't believe you're trying to find a way to defend it, its like, you prefer a stego to annoy and corrupt gameplays, than a deino play like a casual carnivore that will fight for food. Its like (?¿?)
4 - Deino does this, but it will only be able to do it near water. If your hunt is going near water. But, if a deino does mixpack like how i mentioned, may be equal as dumb as how a stego is when mixpack to their own benefit.
5- Deino joining random hunt it's way more accepted than a HERVIBORE joining a random hunt, if the HERVIBORE joins to HERD, it's a bit accepted. Can be trying to HERD. If it joins with trolling/annoying purposes, it's just that. An annoy attitude.
A carnivore (In this example you say to me, a deino), joins. It will be more accepted than a HERVIBORE. That has nothing to do with a CARNIVORE..)
7, 8 - U can't compare the DEINO HABITAT / TERRITORY with an attitude of a typicall stego player. Deino TERRITORY is water. Stego doesn't has its territory there.
What are you trying to tell me with that? I can't understand your comparison 🤔 . It seems to me that what you are comparing does not make sense.

I always feel that you are trying to defend stego and excent it from the things that prove it is a bad animal for the 100% enjoy of this game, or, in what it has nothing to do.
Nothing personal this lasts thing, just something i want to mention because i always see you f.e: downvoting things that are related to "stego nerfs" or "stego complaints". 🤔 You just dont want it to be touched in any way?

[urban flax]

And you're gonna disregard that part of the game when balancing creatures ?

[barren zephyr]

ye, so, they sometimes impaled stuff? was that a daily thing or was that a more rare case

[limber hull]

I mean... Sorry to tell you but stego is recieving buffs

[barren zephyr]

ye, game needs stego tail to be more cc than damage

[urban flax]

why ?

[barren zephyr]

stego already got buffed 6.5

[urban flax]

What got buffed ?

[limber hull]

Good news, it's getting even more buffs and attacks

[barren zephyr]

it's not fun to interact with them if they are tanky and have highest damage

[barren zephyr]

idk, some stamina thing, look patch notes

[limber hull]

That's deino

[small anchor]

Its alright i cant control development. But respond to me those things please, let's dicuss that. Or i already shown you a good counterpart to what you replied to me?. I want to talk about it. 🤔

[limber hull]

Deino has more HP, bleed resist and can do 4000 damage

[barren zephyr]

good to know, I don't play with them

[urban flax]

Omni and troodon packs seem to have a lot of fun tussling with stegos

[barren zephyr]

no deinos are fun

[limber hull]

Because they're stronger

[urban flax]

Deino is fun to interact with ? What are you smoking exactly ?

[barren zephyr]

hypsi can do 10 billion damage if you have time

[urban flax]

in one hit*

[barren zephyr]

I am too lazy to smoke

[small anchor]

The HP and DMG fits the creature, in MY OPINION what doesn't fits its how they swip the tail related to the heavier they are, they seem to do it so fast, or at least, to bring the tail back so fast when they already did the tail swip..

[jovial goblet]

What the hell is up with servers?

[limber hull]

So your entire thing is "herbivore shouldn't be allowed to do anything, carnivores should have free roam". What?

[barren zephyr]

my deino doesn't do 4k in one hit

[limber hull]

If you've lunged, you have

[urban flax]

Lunge can oneshot anything under 4 tons
Therefore, it virtually does.

[barren zephyr]

Terrain should be changed in a way that benefits herbivores

[barren zephyr]

no, water is dangerous, deino is cute lil frend

[small anchor]

I said, hervibores have nothing to do with corpses.
Incluiding:
bodyguarding, bodycamping, not letting carnis eat. <- What happens mostly in a stego gameplay. They use the animal with these purposes.

[urban flax]

tell me you're trolling

[small anchor]

Show me when i said "Carnivores must free roam, hervibores musn't be allowed to"

[barren zephyr]

I am

[urban flax]

It's forbidden by the server's rules

[barren zephyr]

please tell me where

[limber hull]

you can literally
A: Leave the corpse and wait for the stego to get bored
B: Find something else to eat
C: Cope with the fact that it's a videogame and there will be things that interrupt your hunt.

Ceratos are DESIGNED to do these things you hate, yet it's acceptable because it's a carnivore. Same with deino. But stego doing it makes it bad for some reason

As someone who plays mainly carnivores, I have never found much issue with bodyguarding

[barren zephyr]

tbh, I have seen stegos that camp a corpse until it turns gray

[limber hull]

So that's a stego you don't need to worry about

[urban flax]

Rule 2
Trolling is literally offensive behavior

[barren zephyr]

I don't see that

can u screenshot the part and send pm me?

[urban flax]

Is it that hard to click on the rules channel ?

[barren zephyr]

I did, it's not there

[urban flax]

The word "trolling" isn't specifically mentioned but it falls under the behavior that is condemned under rule 2.

Anyways please stop trolling, as it's providing nothing to an already quite unfruitful conversation.

[barren zephyr]

nothing I typed was breaking rule 2

[small anchor]

Yes you can. But at this update leaving a corpse leaves your body (That is your reward for playing good as doing a kill) free to anyother carnivore come and eat it. (MOSTLY CERATO)
So, why do i have to move around of MY reward for having the enough skill to do a kill, because of someone that gains fun of ruining the gameplay of other?
Because you cant name it in any other way than ruin the gameplay of other.
And well, i can't believe you dont have an issue with this. May be because you enjoy getting excent of your rewards in this game. I dont.
I dont enjoy that. And the people I met in game, complain a lot of these.

[limber hull]

Alright, I'm a cera, you're troodons. You manage to kill my cera friend, but instead of moving on, I go around continually guarding the body and killing Troodons. Is this bad?

Should I let you have it?

[barren zephyr]

you should give it to me because we are friends

[small anchor]

No. You're an SCAVENGER. You're not an HERVIBORE that has nothing to do with a dropped body, i already said you this.

[cyan flame]

In general, corpseguarding as a herbi does have the purpose of denying the carni food, so it can't survive to keep coming after you later. And if another carni does it, it does the same result, except the food will now also be gone, giving you no chance to come back to it later.

[limber hull]

Okay so
Carnivore = good
Herbivore = bad

[limber hull]

What about carno, who CAN'T cannibalise

Is that okay?

[cyan flame]

It is just strange that people do not consider corpseguarding/stealing the same, no matter if its herbi or carni doing it, since the end result is the same

[limber hull]

Should I be allowed to kill the omnis that killed my friend, rather than let them eat?

[small anchor]

Of course.
Tell me what the hell does a STEGO has to do camping a BODY..? Denying food, taking away the reward of a carnivore that could do a kill? What it has to do with it? nothing.

[cyan flame]

Stego stands on your food, you can't get it. Deino takes your food, you can't get it.

[limber hull]

Denying food, starving out its predators, which can assist in its own future survival

[cyan flame]

You as the smaller carni have the same result, but for some reason it's fine in one case but not the other?

[limber hull]

It's, by all means, a survival strategy

[small anchor]

Wdym? That carno can't takeover a body? It is called "Fight for food" if you don't know, "fight for territory"... I already said you this too.. You just making me reply like a loop. Ill start to re-send you this messages if you need to 🤔

[cyan flame]

In any case, deino can do the same thing a stego can, rex and trike can as well. Only difference is deino also guards water way more and better than stego does, while stego can corpseguard further inland than a deino can

[limber hull]

No. Let me repeat the question. As a carno, I am fighting some omnis. They kill my carno friend. I CANNOT cannibalise this carno, I gain little to no value from eating it, yet I decide to bodycamp, rather than move on. Is this acceptable to you?

[cyan flame]

So there is some sense in removing stego but not deino, assuming gateway has much more distance between good deino homes (proper rivers) and where most of the players will be and thus die

[small anchor]

"Survival strategy" doesn't applies to this.
That is corrupting a normal gameplay. Not something that an instinct of animal would do, they are not reasonable.
(We're just players, but if we will talk about survival, im sure those animals were not going to bodyguard food to deny it from the carnivores.)

[cyan flame]

Deino being waterlocked is fine, if 75% or more kills are so far away from water it can't come get them

Which could work out better on gateway

As long as most kills are within reach for a deino, its just as much of a bother as stego or trike or rex would be

[urban flax]

A stego that bodyguards a predator that made a kill prevents that predator from eating and may force them into starvation, essentially getting rid of them
Therefore it's a useful survival strategy, despite being scummy

[small anchor]

You don't bodycamp, in that case what i know and what i seen in all my TI experience, most of carnos in that case just decide to continue the fight and end the omnis or end itself dead.
Or in the previous update, the remaining could have decided to scare away the omnis and eat the dropped body.
Or in the worst of the cases, it flee away accepting that it lose the fight.

[limber hull]

So... Carnos can continue to fight, that's okay, but stegos can't

[small anchor]

chill out omg i cant with 3 at the same time, im with wavepoole now

[cyan flame]

True, there is good reason for a herbi to corpseguard, same for killing a juvie carni on sight and all that

[small anchor]

I never said a stego can't fight? What you red? I said its not supposed to BODYCAMP due to being an hervibore, wich doing so, will corrupt a lot the fluctuation of the gameplay.

Im repeating the same things.

[limber hull]

But... carno is bodycamping in my example and you're fine with that

Even though both carno and stego don't eat their own kind

It's just food denying for the sake of food denying

[small anchor]

Carno in you're example lose a fight against 3 omnis.
I said to you that:

• Continue fighting.
• It flee away.
  It is a carnivore meant to act OFFENSIVELY, an hervibore it is meant to act DEFENSIVELY. Why will a HERVI hunt down any down? It can be for territory purposes, for feeling threaten, but im sure it will never be with the purposes happen in those examples that are denying food, denying the gameplay continue normally, trolling, annoying, etc.

[limber hull]

Okay so, corpse-guarding is good because herbivores are supposed to act defensively

I'm really lost

Herbivores are both defensive but also bad if they decide to defend certain things

[small anchor]

You took the conversation anywhere looking for the defense to "Protect a body being a herbivore."
I am going to reiterate synthetically why*it does not make sense to "Protect a body while being a herbivore":

• It is not what herbivores are designed for, nor what they were created biologically for. A herbivore does not HUNTE for food, it HUNTS/KILLS for self-defense, defense of its territory, its nest, babies, etc.
• Has no sense. It is disturbing on purpose, with bad intentions.
• If you are going to tell me "What is survival instinct, survival strategy" I can refute it, telling you about the first point mentioned. They are defensive animals, not offensive ones. They do not seek to do "evil" to the carnivore, they defend themselves from it. It is not defending against him denying you food or YOUR PRIZE by playing effectively and hunting.

Leaving this clear, let's be honest.
NOBODY being STEGO defends a body for their own well-being, they do it to screw the other party.

Telling you this, I think I finished the conversation with you.
Or do you want to continue? Because, honestly, I don't see us reaching something, we are two different thoughts and I don't see that you want to accept part of what I tell you.

[cyan flame]

Which can be for their own well-being. Preventing a smaller rex from eating now might mean it won't survive to adulthood. I believe that's the point Wave is trying to make here. You can corpseguard for the purpose of denying the other party food, in order to starve it. Same idea as why you'd kill a juvie rex on sight even if it poses no threat to your stego right now, because it will grow up to do so otherwise.

You're not wrong when you say that most corpseguard to just ruin the other persons day, but there is survival logic behind it as well. After all, ruining the day of a carni is beneficial for you as herbi, since you don't want them around in the first place. Same really could apply to defending food as herbi vs another herbi. Why would I let a small trike eat food if I know the adult one will bully me off food in the future?

[small anchor]

there are cases and cases, that is a different case that would be "Prevent a creature more dangerous than mine from growing." If you want to title it like that, what I'm going to do is "Defend a body, intervene in scenarios that don't correspond."
I already mentioned several scenarios, if you want I'll resend them.

[cyan flame]

Not sure what you mean with intervene in scenarios? Are you talking mixpacking or what? I'm just pointing out that there are logical, survival oriented reasons for corpseguarding, so just saying "herbis don't seek to do evil" isn't entirely correct. Herbis irl do attack juvie carnis, at least some do, if they find them.

[limber hull]

https://tenor.com/view/beasts-of-bermuda-kaperoo-the-isle-path-of-titans-gif-23526654

[cyan flame]

Not because that juvie presents a threat, but because it can grow into one. Guarding food to starve a carni or opposing herbi is similar. You're not guarding the food because you just want to be an asshat, you're doing so because you don't want the other guy to survive and grow.

[small anchor]

Hervi fighting another hervi for food its not related here, there are not "Opposite parts affected by", it is a hervibore "Fight for food" problem.
As how happens with carnivores, if they "Fight for food", there are no hervi affected by that. (In that moment)

[cyan flame]

Which is kind of, how this survival game goes

Are you entirely missing my point? I'm explaining that you can corpseguard for the purpose of starving something, that's part of survival, since your goal here is to make the other guy die, directly or indirectly, because you don't want them to survive.

[small anchor]

That zebra may be defending its own space, im not sure a zebra would chase down a cheetah when she saw the cheetah miles away. What happens with a typicall aggro-hervi ingame.
They can saw you miles away and they probably will come to attack you. Happens a lot.

[cyan flame]

You can't make the argument that herbi corpseguarding is bad because there are reasons for why you as herbi want to do that. If the omni pack kills one of your teno herd, you do not owe them that dead body. If anything, you would want to prevent that because if you let them eat, they can come back later and hunt your herd again.

You're treating this as some sort of "Oh look, I did good, give me my prize" but that's not how it works. Any more than if you kill a teno near the river, and the deino just comes up and takes the dead body from you

[limber hull]

Exactly

[cyan flame]

Your omni pack spend 30 minutes killing that stego, and now that deino or cera pair just rolls up and takes the food and you have no choice but to give it up and starve

They don't owe you your hard earned kill, they can just go "this is mine now, thanks for the free food"

[small anchor]

Alright, as how I said there are cases and cases.
If you explain that example in that way, id give the reason to that example. But what happen with the other ones. ?

[cyan flame]

A herbi can do the same, except their reasoning isnt wanting the food, but to deny you the food so you starve

A carni just directly cause you starvation due to them eating your food

While in the herbis case, they have to wait you out instead, in some way

[cyan flame]

Which other examples? I'm not thinking of any specific case here, purely the reasoning behind corpseguarding or corpsestealing as it were

[small anchor]

Im not the saying that.
Im saying that the hervibore corrupting the carnivore gameplay makes no sense, this all started with a message that basically said "Stego is not a problem, just a problem to a creature with "X"% Stamina remaining"
Wich I sent examples that shown how that creature in some scenarios turn a threat/problem that is not supposed to be. In that scenario.
The only scenario i think you could refute, is the one that includes "Protecting your dead packmate/herd-mate to not get hunted again". But only with that purpose, wich only happens like a 20% of the time. Most of stegos in this case, just join to random camp a body to annoy the carnivore, and its with annoying purposes. No purpose of survival is used here.

The other examples are
1 - Randomly body guarding. (Stego joins to body guard a corpse that does not involve him in it.)
2- Body guarding a pack mate. (Stego body guard a corpse that involved him, due to the corpse being of a dead pack mate.)
3- Body guarding a herd mate. (Stego body guard a corpse that involved him, due to the corpse being of a dead herd member.)
4- Stego mixpacking with carnivores, body guarding a corpse of "X" dino from "A random carnivore" just to let his "X" Carnivore mixpack-friend eat.
5- Stego joining random hunts to annoy and not let the hunt performance well. (This can be joining to protect an herbivore known as do a herd, or protect a carnivore known as mixpack. Or, simply do a trolling and annoy.)

6- Stego guarding/camping the river/water to not let "X" dino drink.
7- Stego guarding/camping the river/water to not let deinos enter/exit.
(To defend my point 6 and 7, you would say that "No, you are wrong, those dinos can go to any other water zone." But lets suppose that the only water zone available, is the one that the stego is defending/guarding.)
8- Stego guarding/camping any mudpit that needs to be used by any dino. Hervibore/Carnivore. With annoying purposes.

Point 1.
I will explain it in a short text, because you can refute with "It will protect the food to not let the carnivore eat, and become its predator."
Theres no way some will think like that in that situation.
If the hervibore sees the corpse miles away of it, and decides to randomly join to disturb the ones related to the corpse, does not makes sense for me.
Means a bad purpose for me. A trolling purpose, annoying purpose as how I said.
Not letting the pred- get its prize for being capable of getting it.

[stray spruce]

There is no difference between a bodyguarding stego and cera. Stegos are bodyguarding because they cant hurt you by catching/outrunning you. Generally, you dont see another playable bodyguarding because they either run away or chase you. Stego is not able to do that and they are trying to "hurt" you by protecting a carcass.
This will always be the case for big and slow herbivores UNLESS there are rules.

[stray spruce]

Who says that it is not supposed to be a problem? 😄

[urban flax]

Or if a mechanic is made to make herbis sick around corpses (which creates a much, much worse problem)

[cyan flame]

And I'm trying to point out that there is no corruption of the gameplay. You're treating this as if you are owed a kill because you make one, which is not the case. Either a stronger herbi, or carni, can deny you your kill, for whatever reason. They can do so purely because they can, to them wanting the food (in the case of the carni) to just wanting to starve you out because you're playing something you want dead.

Your examples are... I don't see the point of them. The reasoning behind doesn't matter. Both herbi and carni that has suffiicent power can corpseguard, for whatever reason. Making some kind of example that says "it's fine in this case but not in this" is not very useful, because the end result is the same. It's like how people are more "okay" with being killed due to food need, than "KoS", but it doesn't really matter, you're just as dead in both cases, no matter the reason the other guy killed you. Everything aside from that, is just you trying to make yourself feel better about what happened, or try to "justify" it somehow.

Even if they only do it to annoy, you A, don't know that, and B, it doesn't matter. The effect and result is the same. You might "feel" better if it's for one reason than the other, but you can't know for sure, and it doesn't matter. There's not a "prize" to get, even if you get a kill, you're not guaranteed to get it, you're not owed it. And yes, people do think like that, people do deny food, or kill juvies, to prevent something from growing, or surviving, so it won't be a problem for later. That's a fact, and has been for this entire games existence. Even in prog, you'd kill people before they progged, so they didn't get to a dangerous point.

Also the whole guarding river is something deino does so much better, more efficient, and all, than stego ever could.

So no idea why you even use that as an example, since that's kind of the entire thing of deino, and it's the master of denying water.

[cyan flame]

You might not see the reason, but that does not mean it's not there. People will do it for the reasons outlined, but the reason why doesn't matter really, the end result is the same. And you can't guarantee your kill, unless you want body down rules or something like that. And really, everything you uses in examples, can be applied to anything powerful enough to do it, stego or not.

I'm merely pointing out that there are ingame benefits, aside from "trolling" in denying someone else food. That being to cause their death so they are no longer a potential competitor or threat. And that benefit is there, even if your main reason for guarding or something is just to "troll".

[limber hull]

@stoic otter Galli is planned to be an egg stealer

[cyan flame]

Even so, carnis can and will still do it. Nothing stopping a larger carni from bodyguarding a kill, even if they don't need the food, just to deny the others it.

[urban flax]

I know

[small anchor]

I understand what you explaining, but my examples still apply to shown how some of the attitudes prove that the creature still being a threat, with or not justified intentions.
Like the mentioned: Interfiere the scenarios that not involve it in it.

[stray spruce]

I think very simple rules (like not attacking to your group members for example) would make a positive impact for player experience but I neither think they want to implement them nor they have enough staff to do it since even unstuck requests take hours.

[limber hull]

rules require constant moderation, and on Official servers? Yea good luck

[brazen quiver]

Are people having the dx12 error? For some reason I am and idk why 🤷‍♂️

[valid brook]

check the pins in #🔧-evrima-troubleshooting-🔧

[jovial hazel]

But the carnis aren't imbalanced and unkillable with the ability to oneshot everything in a 10 foot radius around it.

[urban flax]

Except deino
And cera, kind of...

[vital laurel]

@pure rain low is the same as off, it looks like it in game config files atleast

[pure rain]

You havent seen a game without blur then man

[vital laurel]

Or its just my trash monitor making it so its allways "on" for me with all the ghosting

[stray spruce]

Yes because they move with a speed over 40km/h but stegos are around 26km/h. If you decide to attack a dinosaur that is 5 tonnes heavier than you and has a giant spiked tail, than you should accept the consequences in my opinion.

[pure rain]

Games always blurry if you compare it to legacy

Id like the blur off tbh, just hurts my eyes

would make their hard work on models n stuff actually visible

[jovial hazel]

....We are talking about corpseguarding.

[stray spruce]

and?

[jovial hazel]

None of what you said has any relevance.

The discussion was about the difference in carnivores and herbivores corpseguarding.

[stray spruce]

Stego is still a stego while guarding a corpse .d

If it didnt had its tail it would be just a giant hamburger roaming around.

[jovial hazel]

And those reasons are why the stego is the biggest problem when it comes to corpseguarding.

[stray spruce]

Do you have any solution in your mind?

[jovial hazel]

I don't really think there is a solution, or if it's even an actual issue.

Just an idle discussion I think.

[limber hull]

i mean, corpse guarding is one of the game's greatest non-issues imho

there will inevitably be a bigger thing to chase you off your food

[stray spruce]

This is why there has to be a counter to every playable species in the roster. Trike and Rex for example.

[jovial hazel]

That counter doesn't necessarily have to be another playable, though.

[barren zephyr]

That's a scenario you made up to support your point... which is invalid

[vital laurel]

is safeloging not working?

[valid brook]

there is an occasional bug that prevents a players data from loading. relogging asap typically fixes the issue

[cyan flame]

Yeah, that's fair enough

[vital laurel]

oh damn so how do you know if its saved or not?

[valid brook]

by relogging really. if you're in the server for more than a minute or 2, it will probably save as your dino dead (if you get the glitch) but if you restart the second you notice it, and you know for a fact you had a dino on that server, restarting will typically resolve the issue. if it doesnt load a second time, you may of lost it

[vital laurel]

is that mainly on offical i only play unoffical to skip queueing and have never had it

[valid brook]

im not too sure. I know i've heard of it from time to time on officials, but i dont really monitor unofficial discords

[vital laurel]

i was thinking cus like a lot more players allways trying to join

[limber hull]

@barren zephyr apex predators being cannibals means they will increase in their numbers to a terrifying degree.

i think no apex predator should be a cannibal, and rather insentivised to kill their own over food/territory squabbles

considering two rexes coexisting will make it a very competitive atmosphere over food

cannibalism has proven time and time again to be one of the easiest, most effective ways of acquiring safe and easy nutrition on carnivores

removing cannibalism makes food harder to obtain and makes failed hunts far more punishing in small groups, as they cannot eat their packmates for food

[barren zephyr]

Apex predators killing their own species, keep more apexs from reacting adulthood. Period. Hence, why the devs made deino a cannibal as well. They were getting out of hand, and it worked. Pls, don't tag people.

[limber hull]

deino cannibalism has permitted its numbers to reach insane levels

its through cannibalism deino is capable of sustaining massive groups of up to 10

[barren zephyr]

No sure what servers your playing on, because I never see that. Nor have the devs confirmed this.

[limber hull]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1118413776711073813/1126079040504221736/20230705191525_1.jpg

here's a pic i took, all those dots? deinos

I counted 13 total

All coexisting in this one space

[jovial hazel]

Anything more than 2 is above limit. And there's no way you are playing on officials without seeing more than 2 deinos together.

[limber hull]

this was an official server

13 deinos all working together

[jovial hazel]

Yeah, and it's sadly pretty common.

[limber hull]

Cannibalism enables this

[barren zephyr]

I'm on officials right now, and have only seen like 8 throughout the whole map

So not sure there.

[limber hull]

Cannibalism needs to be uncommon to prevent this from happening, apex carnivores having cannibalism will enable them to sustain their populations on themselves, meaning that if a server is all rexes, they can all feed on rexes and continue surviving, leading to a self-fulfilling prophecy of massive rex numbers

[barren zephyr]

Then what would you suggest as a fix? Because the very reason official servers aren't getting apex playables in the future is because everyone flocks to them instantly.

[stray spruce]

I agree to some degree. 10 deino kills 1 deino and 9 gets saved from starving.

[limber hull]

By preventing cannibalism, too many rexes will inevitably mean that the amount of food to share between them becomes limited, as eating their own kind will cause debuffs. This means that rex lifestyle becomes perpetually harder the more rexes there are, as they can't rely on nutrition on other rexes to continue surviving. This means rex numbers will have to die down in order to keep existing, as the rexes will be weakened by the lack of nutrition and killed off by other animals

[limber hull]

Don't give the rex cannibalism. By doing this, you make it that it's completely unsustainable to have too many rexes, as they cannot eat other rexes for nutrition, meaning other animals MUST exist within the ecosystem for these rexes to survive and grow to their best ability. It also insentivises killing other rexes for food and territory, as it becomes more limited, you'd still feel the need to kill other rexes as they pose a threat to a possibly limited food source

[barren zephyr]

I actually agree now that you've explained it a bit better. Changing my feedback.

There, changed it.

I still feel all playables should be available to everyone however. And I am nearly certain the new move to gate playables to unofficial servers, is based on recent content creator crying.

[cyan flame]

Cannibalism has not helped keep deino under control, nor did it work for carno, and does not seem to work for cera either. Cannibalism only allows a species to thrive entirely on it's own, which is far from ideal, especially for an apex. People can and will kill each other for reasons anyway, cannibalism only rewards them for it.

[limber hull]

yea we got to that conclusion

surprisingly, we have an isle user who actually listens to someone's arguments, learns and actually changes their viewpoints thanks to it

[cyan flame]

That's not the only reason, it's also due to their power, and how that will affect everyone else. Hence why stego is also going on unofficials because it's getting some powerups.

[limber hull]

which is a rare but welcome sight

[cyan flame]

So noted, just read up, apologies for repeating the arguments!

[barren zephyr]

I mean you made a respectful valid statement, without being rude, or know it all.

[jovial hazel]

It's been a thing since the beginning. Evrima will be its own "experience", more based around smaller dinos. That doesn't mean they won't have officials with all or different rosters.

[barren zephyr]

So you know, hats off 🙂

[jovial hazel]

And imo the apexes and large dinos will never be as fun to play as the small-mids, aside from just the cool factor of big ass dinos.

Movement is what makes Evrima combat fun, to me.

[barren zephyr]

Different people have different play styles though, and of course their personal favorite dinos.

[jovial hazel]

Yeah, for sure. I will definitely be playing the bigger stuff.

[barren zephyr]

I personally, love Dilo. So I hear you.

I just don't feel it fair to gate content behind unofficial servers. Because at the end of the day, that's what this is. Most people won't ever be able to access these unofficial servers due to population, and no ability to queue for unofficial servers either.

I'm actually rather shocked they walked back so many of their pervious statements recently.

[jovial hazel]

Walked back what?

[barren zephyr]

Perviously it was stated many times all playables would be on Evirma. Now it's being stated that may not be the case, ever.

[jovial hazel]

I feel like there's an old sticky in isle-discussion stating the opposite.

[barren zephyr]

Sec, I can link you to the recent comment from punch himself

[jovial hazel]

#isle-discussion message

[barren zephyr]

I see. I missed this, thank you.

My concern still stands, but this makes a bit more sense now.

[jovial hazel]

There "may" be many types of official servers. Is what I got from that.

Designed around different "experiences".

Or rosters. Maps maybe.

And it makes sense, if they can't raise the player count much higher due to engine limits or whatever.

Better to have smaller rosters designed to interract with eachother, maybe.

[barren zephyr]

Well, maybe

I don't ever see player count being over 100 on Spiro

A large part of their issue is the map itself

No offense to Dondi, but he kinda sucks at map building lmao

Plus, The Isle now has PoT to contend with. Which is planning on a huge roster. I feel like small rosters are just going to push more people to other competators where they can play what they wish.

[limber hull]

thats why he hired Jace

[barren zephyr]

Yea

[limber hull]

tbh, PoT's roster is genuinely so unthreatening lol

because it's all a lot of the same

[barren zephyr]

This is true

[limber hull]

i also just don't really see them as competitors

one's an MMO, one's a survival

one wants to add a bunch of animals with skill trees and whatnot, one wants to add humans and the absolute amazingly awful abomination that is gen 1

[barren zephyr]

Well they 100% share the same base of players. And after playing it there, a large number of people are only there due to lack of playables within Evrima

100% different experiences though

[small anchor]

Read the message.. better. Then try to make fun of it when you understood it thankss... " 💀 "

[small anchor]

👍 🤝

[eager marsh]

can anybody help with this problem my server list is flooded with china severs duplicated so much it blocks all other servers from apearing is there anyway i can block them ?

[valid brook]

you are best off asking in #🔧-legacy-troubleshooting-🔧 or, if you want to play evrima, ask how to in #🔧-evrima-troubleshooting-🔧

[eager marsh]

ok thanks

[valid brook]

yups

[thick raft]

@barren zephyr yeah, uh no, deino is meant to be solo, the only reason it can group at all is for nesting

its an apex also, it should be super hard to grow

[barren zephyr]

How would buffing the amount of food deino gives increase solo play?

I don't understand your point

[thick raft]

it would mean that killing other deinos is really worth it

so instead of having massive packs of the things they all kill eachother

[barren zephyr]

but that is just gonna give even more of an advantage to duo players

[thick raft]

hmm

ok so maybe a buff from getting the kill?

[barren zephyr]

deinos in game are piloted by humans, not animals, they are friends on discord and won't fight in game

[thick raft]

yeah, but it will atleast help abit, there will always be that one group but we just need to make it so there are less megapacks

[barren zephyr]

buffing cannibalism would just result in one friend group taking over the serrver, there would be even less solo play

[thick raft]

yeah but what else do you suggest

[urban flax]

Cannibalism actually makes megapacking easier since it allows to survive on your fallen kin

[thick raft]

ok how about, a debuff for being in a megapack

[barren zephyr]

there is no good way to eliminate megapacks

[thick raft]

like extra incoming damage or nerfed movement or smth

[barren zephyr]

A global "smell" or something when there are more than 3 deinos in one spot, idk, deinos grouping makes life easier for land creatures: rivers are less dangerous

[thick raft]

they have that already

as you can see it does jack shite

[barren zephyr]

that red thing has to be buffed, more range and less time to activate, larger radius

I swim and see 3-5 deinos and no red icon

[young crescent]

How do I join a server

[thick raft]

double click the server

[barren zephyr]

did you change game on steam to beta version?

[young crescent]

Steam

@barren zephyr how do I do that

[thick raft]

go to the game on steam

and right click on it and go to betas

[young crescent]

Then it says enter beta code

[urban flax]

You don't need to enter one

[young crescent]

Ok sounds good thanks

[amber cosmos]

Did I miss something? Why are people talking about stego as if it's not in official servers?

[barren zephyr]

idk, rumors

[amber cosmos]

If stego is removed what Dino will people use to kill everything on the server?

[urban flax]

deino

[amber cosmos]

You mean the thing you can easily avoid ? Also I was being sarcastic

[urban flax]

I mean the thing that will have nothing that can come remotely close to being a threat to it

[amber cosmos]

Makes sense it's huge and lives in water

[urban flax]

Without stego, deino won't even be forced to stay in water anymore

[barren zephyr]

it's slow enough to the point I think most won't venture far from water

[dire ridge]

Deino thirst will prevent to much land wandering. And for the record, Spiro is not a good map. We need to experience gateway before making any assumption imo

[sick crescent]

A return to Update 3 Land Deinos will not be a fun time

[lucid mauve]

Dont see problem with deino, its not oppresive. Bully it can, but you die to that land croc. You deserve it

[sick crescent]

Deino is sort of oppressive

However it would be the same with or without Stego because that’s really only in water

[lucid mauve]

Yea sorta, its annoying. But you dont fear it on land, unless you choose to

[barren zephyr]

Deino IMO isn't balanced at all. Cannibalism should be removed from Deino to prevent their numbers from being self-sustaining. Additionally, deino should be required to bask as well for a certain amount of time, every hour of play.

Right now deino is the easiest to grow, maintain, and is flocked to since their are no other large dino options.

[urban flax]

It was about the deino/stego comparison
With stego removed, deino will just take it's place
But while also being able to keep being invisble and oneshotting people in the water

[barren zephyr]

Agree'd

[urban flax]

But deino will also remain much harder to kill than stego currently is, even on land
Even though it deals less damage, deino can defend its flank with much faster attacks, and at no stamina cost
Carnos won't be able to kill it because they already can't kill a stego, and deino has more health and doesn't suffer from extra damage to the head
Ceras won't either because deino can't puke, so their main attack tol is useless
Omnis won't because deino has bleed resistance
Tenos won't either because they rely on stuns, which they can't do on a deino, and they don't deal enough damage
Pachys, gallis, dryos and hypsis are completely out of the question
So that leaves troodon, which may stand a chance when in massive packs, and with a lot of time and dedication (and if the deino decides to not retreat into the water)

[barren zephyr]

deino can't replace stego 1 to 1, their ability to mess with creatures on land is not comparable. we will see more food yoinking but not kills.When you let deinos on land there will be less swimming under water: drinking will be a bit safer.

[urban flax]

If people manage to get killed by stegos on land, they will get killed by deinos too
Since deino is much more sneaky and also faster than stego

[barren zephyr]

Well thought out map can fix half the balance issues in game currently

[barren zephyr]

100% the devs decision to remove playables, rather than actually balance their game is a extremely poor one. And will cost them in the long run.

[barren zephyr]

huh? Deino is 10km/h slower than stego

[spark carbon]

You guys keep talking about my Stego/Deino comment? xD Just delete everything or keep everything, that's it

[urban flax]

When sprinting, either they're the same speed, either deino is faster

[barren zephyr]

deino is always slower than stego after 6.5 nerfs

[urban flax]

Not your comment specifically, people just always compare stego and deino in this server

[barren zephyr]

A map change will help some issues. But it's not going to fix fundamental balance issues. Right now the game has no ecosystem at all, because the devs are refusing to actually listen, and balance accordingly. Instead their answer is, remove the dinos players want, gate that content behind unofficial content creator servers, and forget about it. They don't want to handle the issue, they want someone else to do it for them. It's lazy and poor design choices.

creatures that are at least 3-4 times bigger than the next closest thing are always a hot topic

[barren zephyr]

devs do make questionable choices sometimes, just have to sit back and hope it doesn't ruin your fun

[lucid mauve]

Yes, but whats the problem? Are you annoyned that you cant run up and kill it? Its not like stego was any issue either. Like are annoyed that you cant kill it?

[urban flax]

nope, didn't say that

[lucid mauve]

But whats the issue with deino beeing on the server then ?

[urban flax]

The issue is that the uncontestable water threat becomes uncontestable water threat AND uncontestable land menace

[lucid mauve]

Something will always be uncontested, in their right places. We need to start getting in another flying guy to challenge ptera then

[urban flax]

And I'm not too eager to see giant crocs running aroound annoying people instead of staying put in their rivers

[barren zephyr]

I can't speak for everyone. However, I know my friends, and myself will simply play one of the many other dino games if things continue to go poorly. It is what it is. The Isle has competitors now, and players can vote with their time/money. I've clocked nearly 6,000 hours since the games orignal release. I'd hate to give it up. But I have alternatives now that I didn't back then. Yea, know.

[urban flax]

Some things can be a match for each other, that's why we have multiple apexes
But we're gonna have the second biggest land predator being carno at 1.8 ton, and the first one being deino at 8 tons
Even stego which people complain is invincible is only 6 tons AND suffers double damage on headshots

I don't mind seeing stegos running around on land, but I do mind seeing deinos, who are supposed to be aquatic predators, doing it

I wouldn't mind if they removed stego either, if they also removed deino with it...
Because then instead of having 2 apexes that kill each other and are to be basically ignored by everything else (except can stego can be killed by omni, troodon and cera packs) we're gonna have only one

[north quiver]

honestly I’d be fine with deino staying as long as it gets absolutely bashed with that “difficulty stick” and gets nerfed a lot on land. otherwise, it needs to go with stego

[barren zephyr]

Completely agree here

[lucid mauve]

Yea i get your point, it can be annoying. But its land croc is not oppresive, just like ptera is. But for me personally, i dont mind stuff beeing uncontested in their right places. Not that deino will be unconsted on land when the bigger guys come in.

[urban flax]

You mean when the bigger things stay in unofficials ?

[lucid mauve]

Yea, for now. But deino is not oppresive in any way on land. Its annoying yea

[barren zephyr]

btw, land deinos can't rly use lunge and drown because they don't have enough stam if they were more than 5m from water

so it's mostly biting on land

[barren zephyr]

You haven't seen the packs of deinos on official that slowly roam the land, and completely ruin the gameplay then lol

[lucid mauve]

I would just leave them be, they dont do anything to me

But dumb people do feed them alot of good food tho, ive seen that

[barren zephyr]

deinos are now too slow on land to catch anything, they can only clean up corpses

[barren zephyr]

This is true lol

[barren zephyr]

Oh, they catch all kinds of people...lol

My point is, it just shouldn't be a thing at all.

deino speed peaks at 25km/h at 30% growth, by 50% it's down to 20

many things outwalk a sprinting deino

[north quiver]

not to mention a large percentage of the player base play deino. I personally feel like you’d see a lot more of other creatures if deino was either gotten rid of or made severely harder to grow and survive as. I could be wrong, but this is what I personally feel like would happen. nerf cera so it’s no longer a meta hunter, and you’d start seeing a better ecosystem

[barren zephyr]

But 30 rapters in a server is fine?

40 ceras in a server is fine?

Deino needs to be removed with Stego for sure, and hit with the difficulty stick.

[north quiver]

omni is an entirely different beast that needs some nerfs to it. ceras will starve if there’s too many of them since they wouldn’t be able to properly hunt like they can now

[barren zephyr]

20deinos in a server (most are below 50%) is somehow the worst thing ever

let people play what they want

all servers are full 24/7, the game can't be too unbalanced

[barren zephyr]

A fix for over population is a much needed social system. So if your species is over a population limit in a area, you become uncomfortable, and suffer debuffs until you leave that area. This promotes hunting rivals for territory, with the added bonus of thinning out the masses.

[indigo flax]

I mean, Land croc is on ly dangerous if you let it be dangerous. Getting closer is worst thing one can do

[proud coral]

I think the problem is Deino, an eight ton animal with the ability to one shot all but one in the current roster, is unfortunately very easy to both grow and maintain. Something with such power should not be so easily achievable.

Of course, Gateway is said to change this a lot with potentially other changes to Deino.

[barren zephyr]

you can jump over it and live most of the time

[indigo flax]

I'd not have my dino be at fate of RNG and Hitboxes

Deino needs some changes so Adults can't stray from sources of water for extended periods of time

[barren zephyr]

tru, but most of the time deino will miss, if you wanna do a bit of trolling

[indigo flax]

but still remains the punishment to whoever gets close

It can stay op as it is, but it has to be more interactive

[proud coral]

Deino's water already drains too comically fast on land 😛 Though I agree it should be much more defensive based on land.

[indigo flax]

Crocodillians dont stray for water sources that much

[barren zephyr]

land deino already got gutted, if you add ripples to water when it shift swims then it's as balanced as possible

[indigo flax]

Especially if their fat ass cant haul it back

[proud coral]

Basking (which I believe is still planned) may help make it a lil bit more vulnerable on land depending on how they do that.

[indigo flax]

Occasional ripples, if you make it constant ripples, then you can't position yourself fast enough

[proud coral]

[indigo flax]

Occasional Ripples = Still existing notifier of Deino being there, but plays on if player is observant

[proud coral]

Oh.

Please no.

[indigo flax]

Constant Ripples = clear giveaway to deinos position

[urban flax]

He mentioned ripples while sprinting in water

[indigo flax]

I know

[barren zephyr]

you can add constant on current map, yoj can see a drinker from 400m away

[indigo flax]

I am aware of that

[urban flax]

As a deino you're not forced to be sprinting all the time

[indigo flax]

Fair enough

[proud coral]

I'd rather not have the character reliant on hiding be punished because it was hiding There are other ways to make Deinos in water more noticeable.

[indigo flax]

Watery Obstacles?

[barren zephyr]

unicorn horn?

[indigo flax]

You trip/move them, you cause a ripple

[barren zephyr]

minigames in games are not very fun

[indigo flax]

Then how do you expect deino to be more noticable?

Make Deino more skillfull dammit

People already call it lowest skill ceiling and easiest animal

make it slightly more difficult to navigate unnoticable

[proud coral]

That would actually be pretty neat. I was more so thinking varying water clarity (which is coming), waves from movement being more sensitive, and then some less direct changes to make ambushing for the Deino require more cleverness like the camera not going above water if you're submerged and making lunge much more costly.

[indigo flax]

For lunge to be more costly, Death Roll needs to be added to compensate

[proud coral]

Why

[indigo flax]

Realistic Crocodillian

[proud coral]

It already deathrolls when eating though ;o;

[barren zephyr]

shallow rivers, have tohug bottom or you poke out, not every river is 10m deep

[indigo flax]

Yes, but I want to shred an Omni like a piece of leather

[proud coral]

Can't argue with that honestly

[indigo flax]

Death Roll, which replaces M1 while Grabbing something. Holding it down causes Deino to go turbo-Washing Machine, dealing Catastrophic damage

[barren zephyr]

rn it's not possible to see stuff above water if camera is under water, creatures become invisible

[indigo flax]

with probability of Fracture. Victim can spin along to resist fracture damage

Kinda like Pachy Fracture

[proud coral]

That's not at all how it is, would be neat though. And I am speaking from playing Deino recently 😛

[indigo flax]

Still does not prevent catastrophic damage

[barren zephyr]

tbh, if your victim is 4x smaller it should pass away when you look at it

[indigo flax]

Can't argue with that assessment

Heart attack when?

[barren zephyr]

that's literallyhow it currently is

[indigo flax]

[barren zephyr]

when you angle camera under water you can see the tree but not stego in front of it

i reported this as a bug day one of 6.5

[indigo flax]

I feel like some Water sources need to differ in levels of hydration

[barren zephyr]

I saw something spiky, it was stego tail poking into water, but the rest of stego not in water did not render

it's still this way

[proud coral]

Well that's not how it is for me 😮

[barren zephyr]

every lunge have to shake mouse up and down to make sure I line up right

it might be some rendering bug with some settings on some systems

idk

[indigo flax]

I feel like moment devs add Stress. Emerging Deino could have a chance at giving already anxious dino a heart attack

[barren zephyr]

if you see a deino and don't press F to pay respect u die

[surreal acorn]

You mixpacker bastards are hating on my suggestion. Mixpackers go to HECK

[jade brook]

The implementation you suggested is really bad, that doesn't mean people disagreeing with you are pro mixpacking

[valid brook]

lets please keep all chat to and about other users respectful

[desert arch]

Anti mixpack sytems that include proximity debuffs sound good on paper, but are extremely abusable in practice.

[surreal acorn]

Hmm. Then maybe the devs could implement the insanity thing. Makes a player lose control of their Dino. Makes it an AI that attacks everything or something

Can't mixpack with something that's trying to kill you

[jade brook]

so you stalk another species and suddenly it tries to kill you and make em get off a cliff. Not good either

[mossy canopy]

I think on average most people dislike Carni/Herbi mixpacking or Carni with other Carni mixpacking, it's just trying to deter it is difficult without it being abusable

[north quiver]

imagine a carno or cera following a teno or stego around just to make them lose their dino by simply existing near them, not even needing to attack to make them lose their dino

[jade brook]

You have to define what constitute mixpacking first. That's vague enough in precise terms; people's opinion differs if coexisting constitute mixpacking, if it is more acceptable between some species...

Then imagine how hard it can be coded to be detected fairly and how unfair abuse can be made.

[desert arch]

The anti mixpack system ppl want is migrations

And thats only possible on Gateway
So blame spiro for mixpacking

[mossy canopy]

migrations work decently for Herbi's but not entirely for Carni's

since Herbi's will be the ones 'mostly' moving around with that system and sure Carni's might follow them but they could also just stick to hotspots and mixpack/kill other carni's

[desert arch]

At least it makes mixpacks tedious to sustain, which in most cases will deteter enough people

[mossy canopy]

True I just hope it does a decent enough job

Coexistence is cool like a carnivore not eating a herbivore cause it's full or doesn't wanna bother

but actively helping it out is kinda cringe

[desert arch]

A rex must kos a dryo cuz its a herbi

[mossy canopy]

Like I get not actively killing everything if you're full/don't wanna chase something tiny/not worthwhile

Just don't like help them is my thing

[jade brook]

is not straight out killing every fresh spawn troodon and allowing them to eat leftovers constitute help?

should a full grown rex go insane from it?

nah

and that's hard to differentiate in code from litteraly feeding them

[mossy canopy]

exactly like letting scavengers eat a corpse you're done with is like whatever, but it'd be different if you stuck around and actively bodyguarded them while they ate right

[normal lotus]

You can limit a lot of mixpack and mix herds by simply making so their diets are spread apart across the map. Kinda like what gateway is doing with migration

[mossy canopy]

I think most people aren't really too miffed over Herbis mixpacking

since it's sorta just defense

[normal lotus]

I don't mind them tolerating each other. Helping is another subject

[jade brook]

that's why unofficial servers exist. I don't see a machine able to differentiate the cases better than a human supervision right now

[mossy canopy]

I mean Unofficials will probably be more popular when more apexes like Rex and Spino are added

since they're shifting apexes to unofficial only

[normal lotus]

Until later.

Diets do really help though

When with migration

[mossy canopy]

and with Gateway it's the hope that we don't end up with the Spiro 'center or nothing' mentallity

[normal lotus]

There may be some Hotspots. Like the delta. Probably a large rest spot like the dam lake.

[mossy canopy]

yeah having hotspots will happen it'll just hopefully not be as extreme as Spiro

[normal lotus]

It probably won't due to migration

[north quiver]

I hope spawn points will be far and large. they’re very predictable right now so getting food is easy

[mossy canopy]

We can hope so, it'll be down it how it plays out when it happens

[barren zephyr]

Login to US 4... 70 of the 100 players are deino...

Feel like majority of the game on any server is mostly deinos or ceras

[desert arch]

Its almost as like people will want to play the overpowered dinos.

Not saying I like to see cerato megapacks

[barren zephyr]

Lol

[loud obsidian]

i received group invte and i hold 2 to accept nathing happen i safe log and nathing happen any idea??

[sick crescent]

Hotspots are inevitable

Migrations could help, but won’t stop them.

Especially on the Carnivore side…

[proud coral]

Hotspots are fine on paper. It's just when they turn into almost all of the server staying in one spot period.

AKA Spiro.

But having them fluctuate as well as giving players actual incentives to move around and explore is good

[sick crescent]

Hotspots are a necessity indeed, however we don’t know how well Migrations will be on making them until we experience it ourselves.

*Necessity because it’s fun to encounter other players both of your species (to group up) and of others.

[night sonnet]

ya the game is super cool when something is happening

but most of the time nothing is happening

would be neat if there was more AI to to kill/avoid and something that allows players to meet more often

[versed osprey]

True. I was trying to find food for my carnivore but I could't find any players, and no AI animals to feed on.

[limber hull]

more AI would mean less need for player interaction

[versed osprey]

That's true, but often you don't get the chance when you're carnivore ;/

[night sonnet]

all the fun is in player interaction of course you'll still interact with players

[limber hull]

i mean, as a carnivore, i rarely have that much an issue

[night sonnet]

even if theoretically you don't

it just means players can follow AI to find the players trying to farm them

[limber hull]

that's not how AI works lol

AI just wanders mindlessly, it won't guide you to other players

[night sonnet]

no, the point is everyone will be after the AI so they'll find each other

[limber hull]

how? everyone will be splitting up looking for AI

you'd avoid other players to have a higher chance of finding AI

less AI means you need to eat more players, meaning more player interaction

[uncut dagger]

@strange wave gotta disagree with that one hypsi has a very clear objective for its life, be trollin, we need one dino to be 0 risk and high trollin potential and hypsi is that dino

[strange wave]

hypsi lacks substance

your only goal is trolling

[uncut dagger]

what’s substance? drugs

[strange wave]

which can be done regardless of growth

there is zero reason to go for your diets

to avoid death
anything

[uncut dagger]

no cause it makes risk for trollin, it’s just not the same

[strange wave]

hypsi having no growth is part of the reason its a dead playable

[uncut dagger]

exactly

[uncut dagger]

no sir that is beepy

[strange wave]

my guy

when is the last time you saw a hypsi

[uncut dagger]

true

[strange wave]

hypsi has zero purpose currently

[limber hull]

give hypsi growth and the ability to climb and i'm on it

[uncut dagger]

today couple hours ago i saw about 2 at center but it was a special moment doesn’t usually happens

[strange wave]

giving it growth wouldnt hinder its ability to troll things, it would give it a reason to do something else beyond that

[uncut dagger]

does it need to do something else? and it would hurt the trollin u can’t deny that

[buoyant dove]

You dont have a reason to play hyspi thats the problem

[strange wave]

would make hypsi more than its current, nothing status

[uncut dagger]

trollin

[limber hull]

also i think juvi hypsi is wonderful and deserves more time to exist

[strange wave]

yes, because you only rarely see hypsis, and they are usually short lived, then they either leave the server, or go play something with an ounce of actual gameplay

[buoyant dove]

Trolling? Spamming 1 call untill you get bored and feed yourself to a deino or something and then playing a actually fun dinosaur

[uncut dagger]

it does have no player base but that’s not cause growth, idk why but def not growth

[uncut dagger]

spitting a steg face

[strange wave]

it is almost definitely part of the reason

[uncut dagger]

i really can’t see why is that taking part on the cause

[strange wave]

there is a loop with every other creature, they is a goal, they is something to do before you get to adult, and that is getting to adult
with hypsi you spawn in, fill up your food, spit at a few things, then get onetapped
your only goal is to be a minor annoyance and die

[strange wave]

because there is nothing to do besides spit at things

and the spitting is a horribly made mechanic as it is

[uncut dagger]

@buoyant dove about ur feedback, not gonna talk about if i find it absurd or not, just gonna comment that the map can’t really have a deino that big

[buoyant dove]

I dont play hypsi because there is nothing unique about it or rememberable at all because all it does is spit and run around, only rememberable thing about it is its the smallest dinosaur in the game and has a annoying broadcast

[buoyant dove]

Ok

[uncut dagger]

yknow what u might have just changed my mind, spitting doesn’t entertain for long enough, i still find hypsi growth harmful to its trollin but u do got a fair point

[strange wave]

the main thing is, hypsi should have more than just trolling

trolling is its entire thing right now

[limber hull]

hypsi should get climbing with herrera and have its arboreal gameplay

[uncut dagger]

true but i don’t think growth should be that more cause then ur just trading things

[buoyant dove]

Why would you play a dinosaur that has one thing going for it is to troll for 5 mins and then suicide to play another dinosaur

[strange wave]

even dryo and troodon have more than just troll
you need to get to adult, stay fed, and theres some reason to not die

[uncut dagger]

not dryo no

[strange wave]

you can still spawn in and spit at things as a baby hypsi aswell

it doesnt harm its, "lets just spit at random ass things and see what works" gameplay beyond making you ever so slightly smaller for about 10 minutes

[buoyant dove]

Sounds solid, it being herreras main food source along with dryo (when it gets burrowing when people actually play it)

[uncut dagger]

k if we gonna make growth baby hypsi can’t spit, it would also suck cause camera too small just like baby troodon

[strange wave]

the camera being garbage is another issue entirely

[limber hull]

which is why it's good to be a climber, because it can just be up in the trees, not the grass

[buoyant dove]

Would be awesome to leap tree to tree around the jungle chasing a hypsi like a ocelot chasing a monkey

[uncut dagger]

yeah but it isn’t present in adult hypsi as much

[strange wave]

iirc, only hatchling hypsi lacks its ability to spit, much like all the other hatchlings lack their unique mechanics until they get to juvenile

[uncut dagger]

i really don’t know how i feel about hypsi climbing

[limber hull]

why

[strange wave]

its happening regardless

[limber hull]

whats wrong with it

[uncut dagger]

idk it just feels wrong to me some reason

[uncut dagger]

confirmed?

[limber hull]

yep

[buoyant dove]

YE

[uncut dagger]

k

[limber hull]

its designed to look like birds of paradise, it makes sense to vibe in trees

[buoyant dove]

The hyspi problem is kind of like dryo minus the no objective but to troll

[uncut dagger]

won’t really help with hypsi lack of content tho, it’s unique but just wont

[buoyant dove]

Yes it will lol

[limber hull]

yea it will?

entirely unique environment to all but a few animals

[uncut dagger]

austro is indeed a cool dino very sad how it sits in modern legacy

[limber hull]

arboreal lifestyle isn't common

[buoyant dove]

No one plays dryo because theres no burrowing

[limber hull]

in fact, it's the only confirmed "full arboreal" herbivore

[uncut dagger]

yeah but like.. idk how that will entertain someone for longer then first try

[buoyant dove]

Its like adding deinosuchus but it cant swim

[uncut dagger]

what’s like that?

[limber hull]

vibing in treetops and nesting/living up in jungles sounds really fun to me. Hypsi is the closest thing we have to a monkey and I love it

[uncut dagger]

i was gonna say no player interaction but herera id a thing so maybe it works out

imma go sleep now cya guys, nice talk

[buoyant dove]

Being a chill critters vibing in trees, courting with others, snatching fruit from the trees, evading herreras an and sitting on branches and living in flocks and colonies could entertain me for hours

[uncut dagger]

hypsi is just not meant to be chill

[buoyant dove]

Do you seriously want a hypsi whos entire playstyle is being annoying

[uncut dagger]

yes just needs more content and i’m fine with hypsi that way, i do think climbing would improve it

[buoyant dove]

I give up

[uncut dagger]

that’s literally how hypsi is wdym

[buoyant dove]

Hypsi isnt ment to be a trolling dinosaur its legit just poorly made with missing mechanics which leaves nothing but to troll

[uncut dagger]

u can’t just tell me the spit isn’t made to be trollin

[buoyant dove]

Its made for self defense against predators

[uncut dagger]

yeh that’s kinda true

[buoyant dove]

The devs didnt intend for it to be a trolling weapon, the mechanic is just so poorly made they accidentally made it for trolling

[uncut dagger]

they also made carno a defensive dino lol

[buoyant dove]

No it isnt...

Cera is, its a bully

[uncut dagger]

yeah kinda went to far on the statement

[uncut dagger]

they also made it so not tanky

[buoyant dove]

Carno is a ambush / persuit predator

Well not cera, stego

[uncut dagger]

also they changed the alt animation for cera D:

[uncut dagger]

isn’t really a ambusher rn ass acceleration

[buoyant dove]

Thats what the devs intended but then again the devs cant make up their mind if they want it to be a ambusher or persuit

Idk even know whags up with carno..

[uncut dagger]

no, here we talking about what things are and not what they ment to do

[buoyant dove]

They tried to make a ambusher with the stam but then made the acceleration so bad you cant even catch up to a galli even if you ambushed it

[uncut dagger]

ass acceleration

[buoyant dove]

Carno is just in a bad spot currently

[uncut dagger]

yeah

[buoyant dove]

At least it does decent damage and alright hp IF you even catch your prey

And due to the removal of cannibalism in carno its a pain to grow now

Theres a reason people play cera more then carno

[uncut dagger]

yeah it isn’t completely useless it just sucks at what it should be good at, kinda how troodon takes a L in forests

[buoyant dove]

Yeah

[uncut dagger]

not if u were the one been cannied

[buoyant dove]

People still cannibalize as carno just to be jerks from what ive heard

[ashen salmon]

<@&505047238674874368> is there anyway you can get me unstuck from this stupid rock ?

[sick crescent]

I mean, any dinosaur that takes not that much time to grow will just be a troll dinosaur.

Hell, the Trollimimus doesn’t get its name for nothing.

Hypsi will always be THE troll playable pretty much at the moment, even with growth….

The difference is with growth literally no one will play Hypsi, even at like 15 minutes.

[buoyant dove]

I have NEVER heard anyone play hypsi more then 30 mins

[sick crescent]

Everyone will just actually go Pteranodon to annoy people, like they sort of do already.

[limber hull]

I will since it's arboreal

[sick crescent]

An Arboreal Herbivore sounds neat not gonna lie, but considering it really won’t be doing much else… ehhh.

Sort of like Tupan being a Herbivorous Flyer, sure it seems neat for Herbi players but Ptera already seems rather meh.

I’ll wait and see, I guess

My worries on Trike should teach me enough to not overly speculate until we actually see and play it…

[verbal meteor]

A land apex would be nice but, obviously its not a thought runnin thru the devs heads. 2 years eta for the muskrat and then apexes.

[pseudo copper]

For future unstuck requests use the dedicated evrima channels, also include your name and the server.

[sick crescent]

On Officials?

We already have an Apex in Evrima

Stego currently however is gimped

[low canopy]

imagine if respawn timer was removed, time to flood center with limitless stego bodies

[barren zephyr]

Hotspot behavior can be completely removed with a simple social behavior system. Each dino has a max population they can stand to be around of their own species, and others. If you go over said limit you get debuffs until you leave the area, or reduce your species numbers in a area. Areas should be at least 1km. This encourages both herbivores and carnivores to compete for territory, resources, etc. If players were recieveing -75% debuff to their stamina and health regen for using the game as a online chat room, you'd see a lot of change over night.

[uncut dagger]

@slender tinsel like how does the broken pounce effect on utah gettin knocked down because of threes

[floral condor]

I find Hypsi pretty fun if your goal is to annoy deinos and carnivores.

I usually color myself green and earth colors and stalk my prey in the taller grass. When I’m close enough, I spit in their faces. The high grass is perfect for hiding in, and it’s fun seeing them mentally defeated as they run away from the spit

I played for around 4 hours, spitting on faces and being chased around in a game of cat and mouse

[sick crescent]

This is too punishing

I wouldn’t punish players for making/going to hotspots

I would try to encourage a more natural way to explore the map and move, hence Migrations temporary hotspots idea is actually good if executed properly

[limber hull]

Migrations my beloved

[barren zephyr]

I hear what your saying. I just personally, don't consider the idea of a social behavior system to punishing. It happens already in wildlife in nature.

[limber hull]

-75% stamina and health regen doesn't sound punishing to you?

also, i find it extremely unfun and unnatrual to punish players for socialising via these means

Also ONE KILOMETER of absolutely zero tolerance is absurd

That's a ridiculous distance

[barren zephyr]

The % could be lowered, 75 was just a example. 1km isn't actually all that much, but even 800m would be enough. The point is to stop hotspots, which have already been confirmed to cause lag/server issues.

[limber hull]

Migrations do this far more naturally

By encouraging player movement, not punishing player stagnation

Which is the best way to do game design (carrot over stick)

[barren zephyr]

Migrations COULD do this more naturally. We have no idea if this system is actually going to work. Generally, I agree with encouraging, rather than punishment. However, sometimes you can't take the stupid out of the player, and people need a slap into reality.

[limber hull]

I personally like it when animals co-exist

I feel it's natural and brings more life to the game than constantly slaughtering everything in your space

i am very much letting animals vibe with each other

[barren zephyr]

The issue with that is in real life, most animals don't co-exist. Unless you are in a environment that is saturated in food. And even those are generally, season events. Mix packing and hotspots have been a issue the devs themselves have acknowledged for years. The Isle is a survival game. Not a chat room, or dino friendly adventure. For people that want the dino gameplay without risk... there is Path of Titans.

[limber hull]

I mean, I get that, but at the same time, watching things slaughter other things for absolutely zero value to themselves is uh, lame

It doesn't feel like an ecosystem, it feels like a gladitorial ring

I'm excited for elders because they dissuade the whole "run at something 3x your size and fight it for zero reason and die, adding another corpse to a pile of corpses"

[barren zephyr]

That's a part of life man. Animals do this in real life. A lion enters another lions area... that lion is dead. Elephants fight each other for space...

And having a bit more punishment for playing wrong, should actually stop the needless killing. Much of it goes on because so many players are in a single spot.

And then they cry when their server crashs, or lags. Even though they are the problem.

[limber hull]

Punishment for existing in the same space isn't fun, especially when other animals can (and will) abuse any form of proximity debuff

[barren zephyr]

It would be extremely hard to abuse the debuff, as long as it was a over time build up. Just like the diet system. Give players bonuses for making their dino comfortable. When they fail to do so, they don't get a bonus. After so long, it turns into a debuff that builds until the poor player behavior is corrected.

[limber hull]

it would be extremely easy to abuse

as long as you're near someone, you can debuff them, that's easy as any animal faster as another animal

especially with the generous 1km range

[barren zephyr]

no matter what you do players will always do what they want not what others or devs want

[limber hull]

essentially, yes

[barren zephyr]

You can keep nerfing a playstyle but at one point gamers will quit and play something else instead of this game

[valid brook]

@short reef afaik all the tools they should need area allready in the game, including working replays

[short reef]

but the relpays dont work?

replays*

[limber hull]

does your server have them enabled

[valid brook]

they do aslong as they are enabled. they are disabled on the officialservers

[short reef]

So i just spoke with amins on several unofficial servers, and they are saying that the tools dont function properly. So my request to implement working tools is valid

[slender tinsel]

Personally I experienced being knocked off of the target I just pounced because the target knocked off my team member right at the moment I pounced. I experienced it twice so it wasn't just one time episode.

[uncut dagger]

we talking bucking or using threes?

[slender tinsel]

It was about bucking. Pounced target with full stamina, getting knocked in second by bucking.

[steady lintel]

@buoyant dove crocodiles and alligators do not grow forever irl. Kinda like any other animal some individuals simply grow bigger then others depending on genetics and food availability.

[limber hull]

@teal sparrow pachy's head already takes less damage than its body

it has a 0.75x damage multiplier, as opposed to the regular 1.5x headshot multiplier

[teal sparrow]

does it? I got hit from a full cera charge bite in my head and I couldn't even see red in my heart on the tab screen, but maybe it phased through that hit box and just hit my body.

[limber hull]

also, returning stun is a REALLY bad idea

it already made pachy insanely OP last update

any cera forced to face off against pachies who can stun is dead

if anything, pachy needs a trot that doesn't outright suck and a boost in stamina

i'd also maybe argue more damage on the ram, rather than a stun

[steady lintel]

Good coordinated group made pachy seem a lot stronger then usual but it was a glass cannon equally good coordinated groups fighting pachy could easily kill them… they weren’t insanely op. Either way one Cera being able to easily fend off multiple pachys is kinda stupid

[limber hull]

i mean, cera has fracture resist (for some odd reason)

[tardy jacinth]

@violet vessel Loved ur idea about the Cenozoic era. I don't think people quite understand it, hence all the downvotes... quite weird they wouldn't want variation like that. It'd be totally cool to see a Dire Wolf pack in, like, a tundra area! Plus, u said after this game is done and it'd be separate except for community servers (optionally), so I don't get why people don't like the idea.

[limber hull]

i personally don't care enough about the cenozoic era to want it, besides Gigantopithicus. Also a tundra area on a tropical island seems somewhat absurd

[tardy jacinth]

Nah, new map type of deal

If they do move away from tropical islands, that is

I don't know. It'd just be really cool to see Sbaertooths, Dire Wolves, Argentavis, Mammoths, etc

[urban flax]

Cenozoic era would just be another game

[small anchor]

@glacial quarry BRO YES that thing you mention i forgot to, and happened a LOT TO ME omg it is so annoy, your stomach fills more than the square, and when the square is about to fill you cant, and it shows as "deactivated" so no gains from the diet

The community is going to have to gather signatures so that they can make a quick update and return it to how it was before

[amber cosmos]

Anyone know if they will be putting the shant in evrima at some point?

[urban flax]

They will

[amber cosmos]

Do they have like a list of dinos coming somewhere?

[urban flax]

Not an official ones, but you may ask in isle discussion, I'm sure someone has one, or you can try searching for it

[tropic forge]

why you no like my superior alberto idea

[urban flax]

I'd prefer alberto being fast and not yet another ambush predator.
Instead of being a downscaled rex, it should be using a combination of agility and brute strength to overpower similar-sized animals alone or in duos
Also stunning bite is boring

[tropic forge]

but you have both Allo and Carno as fast mid tiers
yes Alberto would have higher direct dmg but he would be too similar i think

[urban flax]

And you got sucho and acro as slow ones, so that's the same the other way around
There is no agile brawler mid-tier in the game, but there's plenty of ambushers
Allo being one of them

[tropic forge]

Indeed but its so stupid to make Allo an ambusher

Allo lived in open terrain and had airsacks like birds giving it massive endurance

So stupid of the devs

[urban flax]

Dinos in this game are'nt supposed to be 1:1 like their real life counterparts
Also I'm pretty sure if allo had airsacks, most other theropods had them as well

[tropic forge]

some did, the general Allosaurid family did but i do not know about the rest of theropods

my issue with this is that the Allo is the exact opposite of what it should be

[urban flax]

Just like carno, teno and beipi you mean ?

Oh and cera too

[amber cosmos]

Honestly think carno needs more stam and much faster acceleration

I'm hoping Alberto plays like a giant cerato without the bile but maybe has some sort of neck bite pen or something to make it different

[tropic forge]

i mean carno was a fast carnivore that they have exagerated the power of its skull
cerato propably filled a similar role as it lived in the same habitat as the much larger torvosaurus
teno idk what is different from real life
and beipi too
The only actual change on them is that they are put in a different enviroment

[tropic forge]

its carnos weakness to have a slow acceleration like gally
though it should get a speed boost overall but idk about a stam boost

[urban flax]

Carno was a hunter of similar-sized or even bigger prey, in game it's a small game hunter
Cera irl was extremely thin, built for speed and agility rather than strength, in-game it's a powerhouse
Teno irl was literal fodder, in-game it's twice as big and the most combat-capable animal
Beipi irl was terrestrial and much larger than its in-game counterpart

So making allo ambusher instead of endurance hunter isn't that far-fetched in terms of accuracy

Especially considering there is no hard proof it was an endurance hunter, and these are extremely rare in the world, as 99% of predators are ambush hunters
The only existing ones in the modern world being wolves (and other wild dogs) and humans
And maybe some aquatic creatures

[amber cosmos]

I mean if we're being real all carnis will start off with an ambush unless contesting a body or fighting just to kill something

[tropic forge]

as for cera theres several subspecies and the european one was alot fatter like the one in game so that could explain that
carno didnt hunt similar sized prey
teno from what i see is within the possible size range and the isle has pushed most of its species to near max size so its not crazy
truth be told i do not know about beipi to make an arguement

[amber cosmos]

And I think allo should be an ambusher with medium DMG but high bleed and a decent amount of stam to follow what's bleeding

[tropic forge]

yes indeed but the difference is that animals like lions drop the hunt if the pray notices them, cheetahs usually dont
similarly in game some species would keep on hunting while others would give up

[tropic forge]

i dont see how thats viable
if Allo is like that with only decent stamina and focused on ambushing it wont be able to hunt stegos nor sauropods

though i agree with mid dmg and high bleed aproach

[amber cosmos]

True but if it was about accuracy the deino would be able to ring a stegos neck lol

[tropic forge]

truth be told it should seeing the current match up

[amber cosmos]

Then more people would complain

[tropic forge]

complain about hwat

[amber cosmos]

The deino everyone thinks it's over powered

[urban flax]

I don't see why allo should be able to hunt stegos and sauropods
Stegos in packs maybe, but not sauropods
It's way too small

[urban flax]

Except people who only play deino

[tropic forge]

i believe the reason people think deino is op is because its the only apex sized carnivore atm

[amber cosmos]

Facts

I think it's actually under powered seeing as it had a bite force much stronger then rex

I'm concerned how a rex will hunt a stego if deino cant

[tropic forge]

a stegosaurus who got biten on the head would die to a lone Allosaurus (ofcourse in game neither would die so quick)
sauropods could be hunted by packs ofcourse i dont think a lone Allo should stand a chance against sauropods
Also Allo irl had great regeneration which is very important for hunting large pray

[urban flax]

(it didn't, the study was made by upscaling croc biteforce and isn't valid)

[amber cosmos]

Your retort sounds a lot like opinion

[urban flax]

Simple

Deino isn't supposed to hunt similar-size prey
Rex is

[cyan flame]

No, it's because all of the kit of deino together makes it the best playable overall, and very op. It has nothing to do with it being apex, but that it has pretty much everything going for it.

[urban flax]

If math is a matter of opinion to you

[tropic forge]

its extremely easy to avoid deinos and they are no threat unless you go in center or NW

[cyan flame]

Also yes, the whole biteforce thing has been changed far as I know. Deino did not have that impressive biteforce. Not that it matters, because well, it's a game. And the "biteforce" in game is just damage, not related to actual biteforce. Also deino does have that 4T lunge kill one shot, that's pretty much your biteforce right there.

[cyan flame]

That does not change that deino overall is overpowered due to all the advantages it holds.

[tropic forge]

as of the moment you must suck to die as any herbivore
or you want conflict which is understandable
but just go to any of the less populated area and you cant loose

[cyan flame]

Just like how it doesn't change that ptera is best playable for sheer survival

[tropic forge]

not with the current ping XD

[cyan flame]

Well, bugs and latency and other things aside, if the game works as it should, it is :p

[tropic forge]

yeah its pretty easy to survive as ptera but that will be balanced when herrera and such are added where they will be able to hunt on trees and such so pteras wont be safe

[cyan flame]

To be fair, ptera is probably the one you really have to be bad to die with, deino being the second after that. Then I'd argue galli, because well, superior speed and omnivore and all.

[urban flax]

Idk how ping matters when as a ptera you can quite literally spend your entire time out of reach of any potential threat

[amber cosmos]

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/animals/article/120315-crocodiles-bite-force-erickson-science-plos-one-strongest

[urban flax]

I'm not bad as a ptera yet I die pretty often
I just get tired of living

[cyan flame]

Yes well, I am arguing out of a desire to actually remain alive, as the point of the game would be :p

[amber cosmos]

Is this the study your talking about?

[tropic forge]

you cant regen stam while on trees so you have to stay near rocks to sit down where you are vulnerable to utahs and anything that can jump

[cyan flame]

Only if you just rest wherever and don't plan ahead at all I guess

[urban flax]

Omnis cannot jump on any rock
Also you can pick a spot where you see threats coming

[tropic forge]

yeah if you go into the jungle no one will find you but that applies for all dinos atm

but to be fair if you imply that you have the skill to always fly and land properly and to hunt fish properly and not fall
isnt it the same as implying you have the skill to hunt as any carnivore?

[cyan flame]

I mean, it's not difficult at all to play a ptera?

[tropic forge]

indeed but neither is it hard to hunt juvies and AI

and its especially easy to survive on plants

[urban flax]

nope, flying around and fishing is damn easy

[tropic forge]

indeed like surviving as any dino

[urban flax]

Hunting players can be hard as some carnivores, and since I play herbivores more often than carnivores I'm not that good at hunting

[cyan flame]

Generally, most playables are easy enough to survive as, I'd say carno due to hunger is probably one of the harsher ones

[tropic forge]

the main cause of death is wanting thrill from the game
which is fair
but if you want to just survive its very easy as almost all dinos
the only one i would say its up to lack is stego and deino
stego cause its very slow and deino cause if a bigger croc sees you you are dead

[amber cosmos]

I sorta agree, if you see a bigger croc you can just run onto land

[tropic forge]

true
i might be wrong but isnt 40%+ deino faster than deino below 40%?

[amber cosmos]

No

Not sprinting on land

Walking speed yes

[tropic forge]

ah ok then you propably can escape as deino too

[amber cosmos]

Real issue is running then getting ganked by stegos or carnos that see you when your small

[tropic forge]

i mean most juvies can easily escape a stego
a carno not so much but as a juvie you shouldnt be in the open where they can spot you

[amber cosmos]

Also I'm trying to find a study refuting the one saying deino has a stronger bite force then rex and I can't find one

All I'm finding is reddit posts lol

[tropic forge]

i dont have any knowledge on that subject
but crocs do generally have very strong bite force
even gariels have a very strong bite

[amber cosmos]

Study basically suggests it has almost double the bite force in newtons then a rex

So once again how will devs make it so a rex can hunt a stego when a solo deino cant

[urban flax]

higher bite damage
Being actually designed for it

Also other attacks that work on stego

[amber cosmos]

The deino by all rights should have higher bite dmg

[urban flax]

It doesn't need higher bite damage

[amber cosmos]

Rex does outweigh it on avg though

[tropic forge]

idk man, i look for the newest researches in google and it seems deino had a bite alot stronger
i might be wrong as this was just a quick search but thats what google said

[urban flax]

well don't trust google

Most of the information you can find on paleontology via google search is either outdated or straight-up false

[tropic forge]

yeah i looked for newest stuff cause most was outdated but still it showed deino with higher bite force
any specific study to recomend maybe?

[urban flax]

Depending on your country you can still find an article claiming allo was 200 tons as the first result on google

[tropic forge]

ah it clearly was
i suppose thats why

[urban flax]

I don't know the exact study, I read it from people who posted it in #paleotalk
If you still have doubts, you should ask in there, people in that channel are usually quite knowledgeable on paleontology

[amber cosmos]

I trust national geographic and the national institute on health

[tropic forge]

alright

[urban flax]

I wouldn't trust them on dinosaur facts

[amber cosmos]

The latter has a study from 2020

[tropic forge]

I wouldnt trust either
they show alot of bias lately

[amber cosmos]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3303775/ this one seems pretty concrete they reacted the skull then using cti scans artificially had it bite into a machine that measures bite force based on the believed muscle structure

[cyan flame]

By giving rex other abilities and a higher biteforce in normal bites for example. You need to remember that this is a game, so it won't adhere to realism at all times. If deino is designed to use lunge on targets up to a certain weight as its main hunting method, then it won't be given biteforce or something else that would just allow it to use that instead. Rex might be designed to just bite things, so it could then get much higher damage on those bites.

[tropic forge]

indeed but perhaps give deino the ability to grow past 100% like the devs said in the past but very slowly so a very good player can actually hunt apexes too
just an idea though
or to counter that
dinos like stego shouldnt be uneffected by deinos like they are now

[cyan flame]

Considering how lunge works, they absolutely should.

[tropic forge]

should what

[amber cosmos]

Disagree as a lot of hadrosaur aka deinosuchus primary source of food are comparable in size to stego or bigger but are known to have been hunted by deino anyway, this idea it shouldn't punch above it's weight when in life sometimes it had to is silly, yes it's a game but it's one that for the most part tries to be realistic as possible on most things. Bear minimum it should be able to grab and drown a dino the size of stego, having said that I'm fine with how it is aslong as it changes as they add more and bigger herbis.

[cyan flame]

Dinos like stego and similar size/larger should be rather uneffected by deinos, considering how one shot cheap the lunge is. Especially considering how most of the roster would still just die to deino as it stands.

[amber cosmos]

I'm not saying to one shot them but it should be able to kill one

[cyan flame]

No, it does not try to be "realistic as possible" in most things. Just look at how our playables work. Omni pounces, carno charges, stego is a scorpion (and has no gular armor at that), and so on. Deino should not be hunting bigger things than it already can, and even that is pushing it, considering the time and investment it might take for a 4T playable to grow, only to get instantly deleted via lunge.

[tropic forge]

perhaps make deinos not able to pull them in but to stun them dealing decent dmg so that the herbivore has to flee
and perhaps if theres more deinos to kill it
with both the deino and large herbie auto loosing alot of stam

[cyan flame]

Well, it can. At least in pairs it can, sometimes even solo. But considering the full roster, there's really no need.

You'll have plenty of targets

[tropic forge]

2 adult deinos cannot face tank a stego

[cyan flame]

Someone around can probably show the size chart we have, there's a lot of things that get instantly deleted by deino, it does not need to hunt larger things as well, especially not via lunge and drown.

[amber cosmos]

Takes 3 deinos to kill a stego and you will lose one if not two depending on how close to water you are

[cyan flame]

Well, "face tank", one of you goes for the head, the other for the body, alternate bite/alt bite for movement to adjust for the stegos movement. At the very least you can quickly make that stego regret going near.

[cyan flame]

Two should be enough if you know how to go about it. You do not need three of them far as I know. Also why are you away from the shoreline in the first place... :p

[tropic forge]

i cannot agree with that
stegos can got tail first half way into water and block half the river without an issue
that shouldnt be possible

[cyan flame]

In any case, considering how the lunge works, and the potential roster number deino can one shot with it, deino does not need to hunt things above 5T, especially not things that can also fight back

[amber cosmos]

Dude the difference is so bad stego players chase after deinosuchus on land knowing it's a free kill on something that should be comparable at least in bite strength to a rex

[cyan flame]

That's more down to river design, and only applies to a few places anyway. Places you can avoid as deino. But it also wont be an issue on gateway anyway

[tropic forge]

deinos shouldnt be on land

[cyan flame]

... Why is the deino on land to be chased?

[tropic forge]

on the other hand stegos shouldnt be able to block half the river by sitting on the edge

[amber cosmos]

To eat a body I killed so the skeleton doesn't fall to the bottom? Regain stam

[cyan flame]

Okay, but... you can do that right at the shoreline?

In which case you're not "chased", if you see a stego coming along, turn around and into the water you go?

You made it sound like stegos were running you down on land :p

[tropic forge]

i believe the lunge of deino should stun stego
not to drag it but to stun it so other deinos can do dmg and force it to retreat

[amber cosmos]

Yes and it takes forever to turn around and why should I give up my kill to a stego?

[cyan flame]

I did explain that we're not using irl biteforce here. As well as point out that you do have that biteforce, in the sense of the lunge. 4T one shot is plenty powerful.

[cyan flame]

Why should you give up your kill to a trike or rex? Or a shant or possibly a giga?

Because well, they're big enough to tell you to get lost and you will have to

Even more so if a spino happens to be nearby

[tropic forge]

truth be told its not a 4 ton one shot
it still has time and i have escape from deinos several times as a cera

[cyan flame]

Especially since that one will follow you into the water, which none of the others, even stego with its reach, can do

[amber cosmos]

I'm not arguing over lunging a stego a deino should hurt enough that stegos don't mess with them

[cyan flame]

It is, you can grab anything up to that size. And those deinos might have A, not been fully grown (less stamina perhaps) or B, not had full stamina in the first place

But even teno, with its extra oxygen and all, don't survive a fully grown deino grab

[amber cosmos]

Deino is bigger then stego so try again

[cyan flame]

Unless things have been changed, they did not before this patch at least

And unless cera also has better oxygen, I don't see how it would survive any better

[tropic forge]

nah they can pull you into the water but most oftenly dont have the stam to stun again
truth be told its usually not next to the river but a bit further away

[cyan flame]

Size is not the only thing that matters. Also the point still stands, or are you fine as long as it's x species but not y species?

[tropic forge]

still i dont see why you would disagree with a stun on stego

[cyan flame]

Are you talking about hunting ceras there or?

[cyan flame]

I don't neccesarily disagree with a stun on larger things, I disagree that deino needs a fighting/hunting chance vs them considering the current deino

[tropic forge]

no
as a cera i have fought deinos quite a few times on lad
thats what i mean

[cyan flame]

Well, if they're on land, I can see how they don't manage to kill you

But if you get lunged at the water by one, I don't see how cera survives it

[tropic forge]

deino should have a good chance against them but they should be easily able to escape
just that deino should be able to scare them away

[cyan flame]

But why stego specifically? You're not doing that to a shant or trike?

[amber cosmos]

I don't think smaller dinos should be running up to a giant croc forcing it to run for its life that's my point deino doesn't do enough dmg to things it's size or smaller unless it's below 4tons

[tropic forge]

well
shant is absolutely massive first of all
but im just saying stego cause its the only one in game atm

[cyan flame]

I think my issue here is that you're specifically focused on stego, when you know there's things that will also do that, that are "big enough", and then you're still going to be in the same situation

Yes, but if the issue is "this thing can bully me", then well, other things will too, for better or worse

So no real reason to say stego should be the "cutoff"

We're getting trike and rex soon, or so it seems

[amber cosmos]

Because hadrosaur coming to the game that was it's food source are same size or larger then stego

[tropic forge]

yeah the issue is that a stego near a river should be at a disadvantage not an advantage to a deino

[cyan flame]

You thinking of para?

We don't know how large our para will get, I don't think

[amber cosmos]

No edmont

[cyan flame]

But it might be big enough to also not get grabbed

We're not getting an edmonto?

[tropic forge]

from what ive seen para will be smaller than stego in weight but i cant say anything for sure

[amber cosmos]

Are we getting shan't?

[tropic forge]

shant is too big for dein to be a theat
but shant shoundt be able to bully a deino in water either

[cyan flame]

Stego isn't "smaller", also keep in mind we might get larger sized stego, it could get up to 8T it turns out. But size is not the only thing, stego is heavily weaponized, something a hadrosaur does not seem to be

[cyan flame]

Yes, we're getting shant

Which is probably going to be quite large, and unlikely to be deino prey

[cyan flame]

I imagine it might be similar, probably a little smaller since we do have shant being the big boy. But I doubt para will be less than 4-5T, so it would still be ungrabbable by current deino lunge

[tropic forge]

adult shant shouldnt be deino pray as it should be able to easily walk away
but if it stays next to the waters edge to fight them it should loose

[amber cosmos]

Stego is smaller then deino

[cyan flame]

At least as fully grown

[amber cosmos]

In weight

[cyan flame]

I'm pretty sure a shant could just stomp on a deino xD

At least in the game

[cyan flame]

Yeah, but not smaller in the sense of "this is a small dinosaur that should avoid the deino and be afraid"

[tropic forge]

in game idk but irl shant isnt that much larger
it is a few tons but not to a point where it would be unfased
like a baby croc can easily go after things much larger than it

[cyan flame]

For now at least, deino is limited, and even with that limit, it has a large prey selection

I think irl shant is what, 12+T?

[tropic forge]

yeah but that pray selection will decrease as more and more things it cant dmg but that can hunt it are added

[amber cosmos]

It's around same size as rex

[cyan flame]

Pretty sure shant is quite a bit larger than rex honestly

[tropic forge]

shant is a bit larger propably

[cyan flame]

Lets see if we can find the game sizechart somewhere

[amber cosmos]

I'm talking weight

[cyan flame]

Yes. I think shant weights far more than rex did, far as I can recall

[tropic forge]

still an 8 ton croc should be able to scare anything in game away from water
maybe not drag them in water but scare them away

[cyan flame]

No it won't, because the absolute majority of the roster is within 4T range

[tropic forge]

yeah but most of the favourites are apexes

[amber cosmos]

Rex was 8 tons

[cyan flame]

Yes well, that's an issue all of it's own to be fair, how to get a good population spread

But that might be changed with the whole apexes only on unofficials and all that

[tropic forge]

rex couldve possibly grown to 16 tons as an absolute max but ofcourse that is massively bigger than average

[tropic forge]

yeah true idk about that

[amber cosmos]

Well if we're including max deino could get to 24 tons

[cyan flame]

I don't tihnk they grew that large

[amber cosmos]

Assuming it lived 80years lol

[tropic forge]

see you in 20 minutes gotta go

[amber cosmos]

All I know is way it sits apex's won't feel like apex's against the things they should be eating I honestly think stego in game will merk rex

[cyan flame]

As it stands, stego will just fold to rex, with little doubt

The problem is that you're looking at deino as an apex in the wrong manner, it's not meant to be a similar sized hunter/killer, at least not by its current design

And by all rights, it's more of an apex right now than stego is, since there's nothing that hunts deino aside from itself, while stego is hunted by omni, troodon, cera and so on

[amber cosmos]

Let's be real the reason people hunt stego is due to a lack of teno players and lack of other herbis playables that don't suck

And even then I crap on omnis and carnos all day

Cerato in group not so much but 2 or less and they are dead

[tropic forge]

maybe allow deino to hunt larger dinos but gain little food from small ones so its not worth going after them

[amber cosmos]

When it is adult it doesn't get much from other kills unless another dead deino or stego anyway

[tropic forge]

nah you can fill your hunger from tenos carnos or ceras if they are adult'

[cyan flame]

If their hunting method was far better, then it might work

[amber cosmos]

Maybe on this patch but before not so much, hunger fills up too fast ATM I think

[tropic forge]

what do you mean far better?
do you mean more fair for the pray?

[amber cosmos]

I think lunge shouldn't work on stuff over 4t but maybe give the bite a much weaker bone break to slow them down enough to at least have a chance at killing them lol

[cyan flame]

Yes. Less of a one shot from complete invisibility. And some form of counterplay, aside from just "you're grabbed, hope the deino messes up or you die". Omni pin has similar issue, it's just not fun, you get caught and well, now you just lie there until you die. At least with that they did add fighting back for omni/troodon, and something like that for beipi too in some manner I think.

In general, the whole "I lose many hours of work in an instant because something I couldn't react to jumped me isn't really fun for most players far as I know

[cyan flame]

Maybe. I just don't really see a reason for it really

[amber cosmos]

True but there are a lot of places to go to cross or get water that adult Crocs can't drown you at

[tropic forge]

perhaps just a stun
that if theres more deinos they can capitalise on
otherwise you as a deino can keep it until either you or the pray runs out of stam and gives up

[cyan flame]

Which in turn tends to A, have other dangers, and B, if you have those, then deinos will just not encounter stuff very often, leading to its own problems potentially

I'd rather the interactions be better, than just "avoid x dino/area entirely" be the solution

[amber cosmos]

They are already in game one in particular in NW I just camp around growing all my dinos

[tropic forge]

true there should always be counterplay

for same size dinos ofcourse

[rare fractal]

Or just any dino

Nothing should lack counterplay

[barren zephyr]

The isle should 100% be on console by now, it’d add a lot more players to the game and actually let it properly compete with PoT

[rare fractal]

It shouldn't

not yet at least

Also it competing with POT isn't really a concern

They're not even the same kind of game

POT made that clear when it decided to become an MMO

[amber cosmos]

I'd rather them finish the game then slow down development even more porting to console

[rare fractal]

Yep

[slim elbow]

the port will probably be done eventually, it's a huge revenue source

but yes i'd rather they focus on the game itself and not on ports atm

[rare fractal]

The game is not even remotely struggling financially

Hence all the new members of the team being hired recently

And dondi just saying he’s got enough money for the game

[queen ember]

Anyone have Tenos run time known? (This is for feedback)

[spiral thunder]

The issue is that’s Deinos only weapon? Without the grab how often would you be able to kill anything? The counter play to it comes before you get grabbed not after. Be aware of the area, learn safer spots to drink, watch the water for a few minutes before drinking. I personally would like to see more out of the grabbing mechanic. Being able to latch on to bigger pray and tug of war them into the water where other crocs can help. 🤷🏻‍♂️

[slim elbow]

i think adding an in-game map would be good, we use external interactive maps anyway like vulnona since we can get our actual coords

[stone hatch]

Guys genuine question why isnt gateway out? Im watching streams and vids of gateway from like 6 months ago and it seems fully complete. More complete than spiro...

I feel like it would genuinely fix many of the current problems with the game, enrich the gameplay loop and on top of that its the most beautiful island style map i have ever seen in a survival game

[limber hull]

It was very stripped down and incomplete in that version, and they want to ensure Gateway covers all their bases and is a legitimately good map, rather than half-finishing it

[stone hatch]

is there a problem with letting us play it like people already have? it would significantly improve the experience for everyone

[limber hull]

Many human structures were inaccessible or removed, which meant important passages weren’t available (some of these structures acted as pathways between locations)

[stone hatch]

if it looks this good as a stripped down and unfinished map then damn im excited for the final product

all im saying is this stripped down and unfinished version is clearly playable as of.. 6 months ago and it is clearly better, it is a net positive to release it sooner rather than later. this game is only as good as spiro allows it to be

[limber hull]

That’s fair, but we don’t know what state the map is in since then. Lots could have changed, things might not be super functional atm

Gateway is meant to be the proper Isle map going forward, half-baking it would be a bad look, a completed Gateway is a better alternative

[buoyant dove]

As if spiro isn't a bad look

[limber hull]

Spiro is a bad look, but a new rushed map is worse

[buoyant dove]

True

[limber hull]

Gateway is essentially going to be a whole new step in The Isle’s gameplay loop, environment, storytelling, ecosystem and so on. Messing it up would be BAD

[stone hatch]

spiro was supposed to launch the most anticipated new step in the games history, the recode

[limber hull]

No, Spiro was hastily redesigned to account for Deinosuchus. People liked the pre-U3 Spiro

[stone hatch]

I cant speak to that as I lost my interest in the game after like 2018 and only picked it back up around 2022, I will assume ur right tho, but inevitably any sort of assesment of the opinion of a collective group is not fully possible

[uncut dagger]

@sacred pasture to get used to the map its good to pick a ptera and just fly around the map, and a good tip for traveling is to follow the rivers

@violet vessel would be better to make people play this dinos then having ai of them
im really against ai dinos, it messes up player interactions

@gilded oasis we gonna get gateway and migration system so maybe we wont have do deal with a hotspot

@barren zephyr this will just turn isle into bob and it doesn’t matter if it takes longer if when someone gets big they can’t just be killed and will keep growing

this is 3.0 rex all over again

[violet magnet]

@stray spruce ......is...is this really how slow omni gets up after jumping off a dino it's just pounced? Really??
#general-feedback message

[cyan flame]

That was running at .5 speed, also it got knocked off and down, not just jumping off.

[barren zephyr]

there needs to be a way to mute people in game or have a report button or something. there are children that play this game and for them to be stuck reading very nasty words and hear adults sexualizing every interaction is unacceptable. to the people that do it, seriously grow up, you're disgusting.

[gilded oasis]

that would be way more fun

[stray spruce]

That replay was playing at 0.5 speed most of the time and they didnt jumped off. They were knocked down by hitting a tree.

[limber mauve]

Troodon Venom should be a DoT, not a pounce damage increase

[pure quiver]

@cinder fossil I agree, I made a suggestion that dinos who cant jump should be able to automatically hop over obstacles by holding space and running

[barren zephyr]

slight amount of bonus growth will be fine. Have to figure out what amount is still fair.

[unkempt urchin]

I want to bump this idea because it's still not been discussed or used and it's amazing #general-feedback message

It'd also be an indirect buff to Dryo and that makes my brain vibrate

[tall hearth]

@brittle merlin you can go into the games audio settings and turn down the volume of the music there. I turned mine down to 0

[indigo flax]

It's certainly a good way to improve the game

but more precise actions should be done to make Deino difficult to grow, but still retain the same power

[unkempt urchin]

So many cera's, makes me sad seeing 20 cera, 10 utah and 2-3 lone troodons per server

[indigo flax]

Fish after Sub-adult stage should give very minor amount of food, forcing Cannibalism

with Apex Growth Time being VERY long, it should scare off people who do not want to spend their entire days growing one animal with each 30 seconds being a risk of losing the said dinosaur

Stamina could get a Buff for Capacity, but significant nerf for drain

Hunger could get a realistic buff

with it draining slower

and additional mechanics, such as basking (converting hunger to stamina) and Death Roll (Additional Kill Method or replacement to manual drowning)

[brittle merlin]

Oh Thanks ^^

[west locust]

They should put a tutorial on the menu so new players won’t struggle with the basics like skimming for fish as pteranodon or using scent properly

[next monolith]

@violet vessel I really think they shouldn’t remove any playables, they just have to rework them

[violet vessel]

When's the last time you've seen a hypsi player? For me it's been months. There really is no point playing it.

[uncut dagger]

yeah thats what im saying, to the devs make more content for hypsi. he is gonna be a three climber so maybe that helps

[violet vessel]

Yeah even it's tree climbing is not unique. Herrera is basically better in every way.