general-feedback-discussion

[sage yew]

"hey look, XYZ could be interesting"
"cool story bro: but solve A, B, C, D.... you made that idea, it's all on you now"

[cyan flame]

No, it is correct. I explained why as well. It is for you to make it work if you are the one suggesting it. You do not get to just throw out the idea and not be willing or capable of arguing for it. That does not make for a good debate and will only lead to frustration. You're basically saying you want to just say something without having thought about it. And I'm sorry but that will not work very well here. You're not expected to have every single angle covered, or every solution thought of, but you are expected to have reasoning behind your idea. If you have considered an idea, you're expected to have considered pros and cons with it, and looked at it thoroughly before you suggest it.

[cyan flame]

Yes. And if you say "x could be interesting", you're expected to have a reasoning as to why it would be so. And that includes having answers to potential questions concerning the idea.

[sage yew]

I made arguments, many
i haven't just dismissed his points

I tried to figure out solutions to his points

[cyan flame]

I did not say you did. I pointed out that your reasoning that you shouldn't be the one to defend your idea is incorrect. Not that you didn't or couldn't, but that you were unhappy about the situation when it is perfectly normal to demand the one that comes up with an idea to have thought about it and have answers, or reasoning at the very least, when questions do arise, as they inevitably will.

[cyan flame]

And that's all good. As you should. Which is all I've said here. That you should be aware that if you present an idea, you are expected to have thought about it and thus be capable of defending it against criticism.

[sage yew]

to some extend, yes, sure
But I'm not able to fix it all. Definitely not on my own

[urban flax]

You gave me arguments, I gave you counter-arguments
That's how a debate works

[sage yew]

you just ignored those arguments after posting them and statet afterwards "bad idea" and came up with different things that might bother you

[cyan flame]

And I did say you're not expected to have every answer, of course you're likely to have missed things. But you're expected to take that into account, and be willing to reason around your idea, not be upset or frustrated that you get arguments against and thus have something to work with.

[sage yew]

the expectation "make it work then" is just too much

[cyan flame]

If you suggest something, you get a counter argument that points out something you've not thought of, then you work from there. You look at your idea, what the counter argument was, and adjust your idea from there. And so you continue until you either have covered all the issues brought up, or have realized that you can't, because the idea wasn't workable, and thus concede that "No, this won't work".

[urban flax]

No ? You just didn't answer to the ones I gave
You told me it was rewarding someone for surviving an encounter, I answered that surviving is the reward
You said that it prevents cerato from hunting, I told you that it mostly prevents cerato from using its defense ability and explained why to you.
You said it would prevent playing carelessly, I explained how it would encourage it.
If that's dismissing to you, I don't know what you need

[cyan flame]

"Make it work" is not really a good answer, but if you get a specific "what about this circumstance" then you should be capable of taking that into account and revise from there. That is how debates work, your "job" is to prove that your stance is the accurate one, or most reasonable one.

So if someone just says "make it work", you can ask them to point out what specifically is the issue, since otherwise it's hard to work on the idea.

[sage yew]

your arguments are valid! Never said they are not. I tried to provide solutions to them. All fair and good. But now you are saying that I have not answered to you? I did! But how about you just alter the idea? At this point it doesn't matter if anyone likes it or not. Most of your issues are avoidable and solvable. Most of it you just could figure out on your own, but you don't want to, because it's "a bad idea"

so now what? Do I need to have every answer to every question? No!
while I want to remember, that I responded to all your concerns.

While your only solution was to simply dismiss it. And I sit here and try to find solutions to those problems and I already altered the Idea many times. Like requirements, situational dependencies, different playstiles and all I get here is that I want to punish anyone.

All I want is more depth into mechanics. Different aspects to consider, beside "just eat rotten meat and go bite people". As it wouldn't be at first desirable by anyone, nor would it be a natural behaviour of an animal. Abilities should have limitation considering different aspects of the game. Resistance is one way to go, but the only thing you do is to complain about how it has to work out in worst cases. While those problems are avoidable and solvable, by simply altering ideas, or even showing alternatives.

Resistance, would debuff cera, especially the use of his ability on repeat. It doesn't mean that it's not able anymore to defend himself, nor that he can't hunt anymore, which you said. But when a Cera has the need to constantly poisen someone, he maybe just have to consider that his tactic does not work. But it wouldn't be possible to keep some randoms on an constant poison debuff and if cera would have to over do it, he might take a debuff through opponent resistance build up on him self, which would give players a way to relieve or even fight back.

Sure, it's not perfect, but I don't know how to make it. It's not like I'm pitching here an idea

[sage yew]

I can't prove that it's not a bad idea. It's not even my goal. The phrasing was never dropped, unless by me to simply shorten my concerns I wanted to express.

If anyone states that anything would work like this and that and it's therefore a bad Idea, all I can say is: just don't make it that way. It never had to be that way in the first place. Resistance hinders Cera to kill someone, after he was bitten, poisoned and had time to heal himself? Maybe it wasn't meant to be in the first place. Maybe just use your time window of opportunities. It's too restrictive? Widen the window. Maybe build in a differentiation in player size, bigger dinos gain faster resistance, then small ones. That gives plenty of room to fulfil it's role as a "predator" as stated .

If anyone wants to read the discussion, here the link:
#general-feedback-discussion message

[feral solstice]

I’m pretty sure Cera is planned to have natural immunity to the bites

Since Kissen said they’re going to be fighting each other “the old fashioned way”

[sage yew]

Other animals could have inherent immunity as well, which would basically make them to antagonists to cera, or other poison sources. Maybe even related to their diets. Some plant eaters, that eat "root X" or "plant Y".

Like, aren't some birds immune to snake bites? Or is this a myth?

[sage yew]

@royal thunder no more showcases till U6 gets a hotfix?

[faint folio]

I think in general that all species should not have immunity to cera bacteria (which for the sake of brevity I'll just call venom moving forward). For the same reason that there should not be immunity to troodon venom nor instant Utah bucks-- these animals have been designed in such a way to incentivize playstyle differentiation via making their abilities the most efficient way to fight. That includes debuffs to make generic "run and bite" less attractive to using venom or pounce, etc. For example, Utah and troodon have absolutely terrible health and gets wrecked if they are hit with an attack. I'm pretty sure their bite forces are both atrocious as well (especially troodon), so if troodon wants to kill something remotely big he HAS to use venom to have a decent chance of success.

Now let's consider cerato. From what we've been told -- that he is a bully, who likes to scavenge-- I don't really see them balancing cerato to be particularly good at active hunting. Specifically, I think he'll be tanky, but slow, maybe with poor stamina Regen too. Probably with a lower base bite than carno. These stats would encourage scavenging and prevent abuse of venom because... He won't be able to catch anything that actually knows he's there. Sure, cerato will probably opportunistically attack living dinos if it spots a chance, but I suspect it will have a hard time keeping up with most midtiers and smalls. The result is-- vacate your carcass and leave and there's little chance of cerato abusing venom, especially with how difficult tracking is in evrima

That being said-- on a species by species basis, we can make an argument for resistances. Cerato, since it harbors the bacteria itself, should be either resistant or immune to its own venom. If they add a species that specializes in hunting cerato, they too might have a claim to resistance-- for example, the opossum is highly immune to copperhead bites, because it regularly eats them and has evolved immunity

But in general... I don't think we should give most species the ability to develop cerato immunity, except maybe as a perk you can acquire

[sage yew]

fair

maybe the other way around could be interesting as well
making ceratos diet list susceptible for poison, as this could explain very well, why they're on their diet in the first place

you hunt what is the easiest for you

[icy lion]

@clever thorn It's not meant to close the jaw fully, that's the thrashing animation while holding a corpse

[sage yew]

would cerato actually use his venom to hunt?

[proud coral]

Cerato isn't venomous >:C

[uneven mist]

Considering you have to eat to get more bacteria, I doubt plus’s it isn’t venomous

[sage yew]

Poison*

wait...
I eat it: it's poisonous
It eats me: it's venomous

am I missing here something?

[tall hearth]

I can see a small group of ceratos hunting with their bacterial bite pretty well. Get a few in, the prey vomits, and it will either have 0 stam to get away/attack effectively or starve/dehydrate soon after.

[uneven mist]

You eat it: poison
It bites you: venom
Cera uses bacteria

[sage yew]

depends maybe on how fast the venom/poison/whatever kicks in
if it's "well" for a long enough time it could run away from cera, as it is supposed to be somewhat slow(?) before effect kicks in

[sage yew]

I don't know if the actual source of the venom is relevant though

[proud coral]

Good way to remember it is if it doesn't inject anything into ya, it's almost certainly poison

Like a snake is venomous because the toxins get injected into ya. But a dart frog is poisonous because ye just touch it and d i e. :3

[sage yew]

well, but cera bites you
so it's an active process

[tall hearth]

Yeah, the bacteria enters the body after cera bites its target and it gets sick. It's not venomous or poisonous. Think of it like a severe bacterial infection

[sage yew]

ight, this makes sense

but this doesn't sound like a hunting abillity
bacteria needs incubation time

[proud coral]

From how it's been described, it seems more defensive than for hunting.

[sage yew]

maybe a long-distance hunter?
don't know the english phrasing for this

[proud coral]

A deterrent for things to not mess with ya

[uneven mist]

It’s ability is for defensive purposes, not offensive to use in a hunt

[tall hearth]

It may have to get one or more bites for it to take effect, depending on the size of the animal it bites.

[sage yew]

yea, my bad, as it was mentioned earlier that it needs this ability for hunting

[proud mantle]

@clever thorn thats the thrash ani something is meant in the mount so if the mouth closed all the way whatever it was holding would just be clipping through the mouth

And its landing on the thing its holding

[sullen delta]

@unreal ridge Can we please make the rex jingle the halo opening?

[sage yew]

duno, playing theme music has some 60s kaiju movie vibes

[sand lantern]

Why don't people like the idea of global chat in community servers?

[sage yew]

because a local just amplifies the danger between species, by not being able to communicate with each other and increases the bonds with players of your own kind.
players also can't just leak player positions after their deaths

[proud coral]

I remember some past Dondi comments implying it'll be an option at some point rather than mod only.

[sand lantern]

But it could be togglable

[sage yew]

for the player?

[proud coral]

Regardless, I always got annoyed when people essentially demanded it because it should've never even been a thing in the first place.

[sand lantern]

Admin

Community servers

Not official

[sage yew]

maybe for servers that are used for research or development and testing
but for gameplay? It degrades the communcation system to a chatroom. For casual gamers this might work, but it seems that survival vibes would be lost here

[proud coral]

Ultimately I dislike the concept of it, but I'm also in the boat of "if it's unofficial, go nuts".

[sand lantern]

Then can't you just join a server that doesn't have global

[sage yew]

have mixed fealings about this, as providing comfort features, while officials don't, could divert the playerbase away from intended gameplay. And people that got used to it, might don't want to return to it

[sand lantern]

Camt they just play how they want to. It's unofficial

[sage yew]

I personally would consider such a move, when the game is actually finished

[proud coral]

I mean we're getting apexes in unofficials first which is d e f i n i t e l y gonna drain officials at least a bit, I don't think global would be nearly as bad

[sage yew]

propably

[proud coral]

Though if it were enough to actually hinder feedback n' such, I'm sure they could just disable it for the time being

[sage yew]

oh no, once the box of pandora is open it becomes really hard to lock stuff away again

[agile roost]

Pandora??

[sage yew]

I personally see the approach of just local highly beneficial for Open World games, especially in survival and making it specie dependent is an somewhat awesome move

why dilute it though - for convenience? I would call this a bad design choice. But well, it's still about community servers.... so... duno?

[clever thorn]

ah its the thrash animation oh my bad LUL

[sage yew]

but what about boss music?
at first I thought, a bit old school, but why not

but then, players who have music on, are in disadvantage as acoustic noise diverts your attention away, especially if it comes down to escapes and hiding, while you try to make out steps and such

people playing without it might have an advantage here. Could be optional, sure. But forcing players to make design decisions somewhat speaks against integrity of developers, as it shouldn't come down to the player, how a game is supposed to be experienced.

So I would think that's either for all, or none at all and considering pacing issues with making the theme music actually fit the situation could actually ruin an immersive acoustic experience.

Maybe a bigger emphasis on vocalisation sounds? Using low frequencies like infra-sound for communication or status expressions of the playable apex much more intense, instead of hearing for the 10th time in a row the same or similar battle music

[sage yew]

Greek mythology

[agile roost]

Oh, ok.

[sage yew]

could you explain your idea?

I currently go with that assumption, that feathers are not equal to wings and actually wont do anything to falling

[tall hearth]

Feathered animals could glide/fall slower (depending on the playable) while falling, if the player holds spacebar.

That's about as much thought that needs to go into the idea.

They could outstretch or flap their feathered arms for the animation itself

[burnt bone]

The way I see it, allowing people to have global chat on their servers generally splits off those who like to mixpack and megapack onto unofficials. Though it isn’t the end of mix/megapacking, it at least gives people an option to play more with those who like to play the game the same way.

[sage yew]

could be a thing indeed, for small critters like Velociraptor, at least to some extend

but it wouldn't be applicable to all feathered dinos - while some used them maybe just for mating purposes, or temperature regulation

[sage yew]

fair

I really like this Rex version though

"This is a feathered T. rex I painted in 2014. No it is no longer a current view of the animal. Current research suggests T. rex was sparsely covered if at all by feathers. "

• RJ Palmer/twitter

hm~ or this chunky boy

[rocky shoal]

Give me chubky with fuzz and I'll ve happy

[sage yew]

agree, just look at his snout, how could anyone not fall in love with this face

[agile roost]

Have you seen the velociraptors from prehistoric planet?

How the female was able to jump so far down the cliff without any issues

[sage yew]

maybe, maybe not, img?

to be honest, I don't really know anything about Dino-aerodynamics

but jumping from trees and rocks, could be an interesting attack mechanic

just googled weight of velociraptor, wiki said 15kg
considering that cat's can survive a fall from a 10 story building - well, it wasn't nearly 15kg, but still - why not a raptor with something similar to wings

btw. cat is fine again, it fell from my aunts balcony

[agile roost]

https://youtu.be/vsqOcii9x70

4:13

Also I don't get why so many people disagree

[icy lion]

Theri has a large amount of feathers and also weighs over 4-5 tons

[agile roost]

Its lifestyle was different compared to a Velociraptor

It was a herbivore

[icy lion]

Yea, but based on the text of your message, you'd want a 4+ ton animal to take no fall damage because it has feathers

[agile roost]

Not really

If you think about it

[thorn bear]

I bought this game 6 hours ago and im already bored. This game is interesting before growth and a little bit after growth, everything between that is filler like in anime( if you can even call it that). I feel like there should be a secondary objective of some sorts. Main one being the growth and survival of your dino.

[icy lion]

Are you on the beta branch? It's still bare but there's more goals via diets. Eventually more will be added in the form of perks and elders, but we're not quite sure how those will work out

[icy lion]

I know, but people are probably Xing your post because it sounds like you want all heavily-feathered dinos to take no fall damage at all

[agile roost]

Ah

Well all light creatures with features should be able to fall without consequences

Or minimal

Like for hyspi, its tail feathers would create quite a bit of drag

Although it doesn't really survive falling from great heights

[thorn bear]

Yeah im playing on the beta branch in most cases i manage to get the “perfect diet” in the first 5 minutes and then i dont have to do anything for like 15-20 minutes.

Path of titans has something similar to “secondary objectives” but most of them are dull and boring like “go to that location” or “bring this item here”. Seems like nobody knows how to deal with that problem without breaking the roleplaying aspect

[icy lion]

Tap E 50 times on a specific asset

Yea I had my fill of PoT

Just didn't vibe

[thin aurora]

fly high little fella ❤️

[tardy barn]

drink water

[thin aurora]

no.

[agile roost]

He's ascending 🥺

[agile roost]

#general-feedback message
I like this idea, but it may be complicated

[orchid moon]

WHAT? LIKE A THERI JUMPING FROM TREE TO TREE XD

[maiden anvil]

@tawdry oyster I definitely get your intention to make tracking more of a effective tool. Although I can’t say for sure what you recommend is the right way to go

[tawdry oyster]

Yeah I expect a lot of people to disagree with me on this one

[limber hull]

we used to have the legacy tracking system, it was removed

[tawdry oyster]

I mean I did just redownload legacy and the first thing that came into my mind is how better the tracking is

[limber hull]

and replaced with the current one

[tawdry oyster]

I’m not saying an exact copy and paste, but a mixture of both

[limber hull]

in U3, the footsteps were basically exactly like legacy's

[maiden anvil]

@robust dome I don’t really mind it as pterasaurs are the opposite of robust built and realistically have to be light in weight to fly

[agile roost]

Read the above messages

[sage yew]

yea, I think it's mostly about the phrasing, as the Idea is not bad in general, just a bad choice of words

[agile roost]

Yeah

[sage yew]

yap, that's currently all yo get. But don't be bothered, other aspects of the game are in development.

It's mostly a brawler right now, at center. A chatroom at NW/cuddle rock. Or Herbi/social experience SW. And other stuff too. But action will mostly take place NW or Center spawn.

Survival is mostly non existent right now.

[sage yew]

@rocky shoalTo be honest, I like your intention. But people will do a lot of weird coloration just for the sake of being different and it can kill any close to realism feel.

Every edgy player thinks he's cool now having red eyes and I hate it. Red eyes everywhere. Like is this some kind of disease? Maybe a bacterial infection of some sort.

I wouldn't like to go any further as it is right now and actually the color selection pretty brought (not considering eyes here.)

[rocky shoal]

I really only use red eyes on my green dinos for the sake of contrast, but I see what you mean.

I still think access to making melanistic and albino skins (as we already have the appropriate eye colors, we just need the ability to make the rest of the skin) would be cool

Even if we had some more variation of colors to choose I'd be happy, cause then at least the edgy dinos wouldn't all be the exact same

[sage yew]

maybe some dependencies could work here. Let's say red eyes are only selectable if you select a at leas a close to albino scheme. And some combinations are just not possible.

[rocky shoal]

Ohh that could work, maybe that would give a more accurate albino red/pink, while the others are more of an orange color?

[sage yew]

exactly

[rocky shoal]

Maybe if you chose an albino scheme you even got a special skin that had a more pinkish tint as it got closer to the nose, spine, joints, tail tip, and finger/toe tips

Claws could be white as well, or a peach/pink color due to lack of melanin, or vice versa for melanistic

[sage yew]

https://youtu.be/p4YirERTVF0?t=474

How life emerges from simplicity
how could this be translated into an Open World Survival Game ecosystem?

[rocky shoal]

Shapes and colors

[sage yew]

oh, I've forgot the time stamp

it reminds me of how species seem to work and migration could look like - expressed in a pretty and simple form by particle simulation. As they all just follow a simple set of rules, like a game design

[limber hull]

@shell fjord ptera is a lot of things, but it is not weak

[urban flax]

I don't get why people complain so much about ptera's cam
And the turn radius change was a buff to how enjoyable flight is

[limber hull]

legit

[tepid gate]

I agree with you on that but I think you'll find me one of the few people on this discord that will share this sentiment.

PoT's quest being as dull, repetitive, uninspiring and boring as they are, have made the whole community here particularly averse to the idea of any quests.

[sage yew]

Even though I share this opinion, I might still like to consider that idea

A quest design shouldn't be a 1:1 MMO ripoff and be more subtle and could be included into the life cycle of an animal. So that it isn't obvious, that you are just following a quest.

stuff like notifications, map markers, gps indicators, or a "you just got XP" overlay shouldn't be done. While I think, that a XP mechanic could work very well, without all these casino-style audio and visual hints/notification.

I'm thinking here, if such mechanics just run behind the scene and curtains, it actually could even work very well. Visiting places/vistas and exploring the map with your current playable could have posititive effects on your stats. Even if you don't care about much exploring, as you have seen it all after some time, many times, it would enhance the experience over time while your current playable is simply surviving. Somewhat like a passive income.

but pls, never ever make a +50 Experience notification. That's so 90s, early 2000 and cancer in modern days at best.

[tepid gate]

I don't disagree for the most part, yea

we definitely don't need those MMO/RPG aspects in the game

as they'd be pretty bad for the atmosphere and the immersion

[dreamy merlin]

i mean cmon the image speaks for itself

it literally looks like something from ice age 3

[gilded hinge]

who replied to my suggestion??

i didnt have time to read or see it

[sage yew]

You will never know.

[gilded hinge]

i only saw some words, were you complaining and saying no??

its just my personal opinion, sorry if you didnt like it

[polar inlet]

!Len
adding the isle (evirma) into consoles in the future if there is time (it could be much more smoother and fun)

Go AWAY plastic box players. If you want to ruin a game, let him go on console.... I hope will never happen

[gilded hinge]

huh??

[polar inlet]

The game is for PC and I hope for PC only

[gilded hinge]

i didnt say it was needed, only if the devs were free enough and had time to spare

and only if they decided to

like path of titans, for example

sorry if it offended you

[sage yew]

I'd rather like to see the world burn than share a game with consoles

[gilded hinge]

also, i do not play consoles very much but games that need consoles, i just thought that having max graphics and the game would still be smooth could be better and nicer, perhaps more fun to play

and audio could be maybe better?

thats all i have to say<3

[sage yew]

consoles have nothing to do with how smooth a game runs. Rather than that console game development is much more streamlined in process. Which is also the main reason that PC development is much more beneficial, due to less restrictions.

[gilded hinge]

when i mean future or when they have time to spare, i mean to a point where they finish the game. i wont care that much if they never do it anyway

[sage yew]

I do. It's not uncommon that a multi platform approach comes with drawbacks and compromises to make both worlds fit together. Which goes to the cost of PC players.

[polar inlet]

oh yes

[gilded hinge]

i wouldnt think its that bad..

[polar inlet]

Exactly

[gilded hinge]

okayokay, sorry if you didnt like it. i just thought it could be a pretty good idea

[sage yew]

if actually made well, sure, why not. But my personal experiences taught me otherwise so far.

maybe a second hand port to console. But please, no development to make both systems work in the first place

[polar inlet]

I have a name to say, ARK S.E. at first in alpha was great, great graphic maybe not perfectly optimized but a really nice game to play and to watch. after 4 years devs decide to make more money downgrading the game in order to be played on s__tsoles and the game was ruined forever, destroyed in order to make a couple more dollars. Please The Isle have not suffer the same fate

[limber hull]

wow, awesome, needless hostility for wanting to expand the audience of a game

[limber hull]

this is ridiculous and completely unwarrented

[limber hull]

and this is completely overdramatic for no reason

the PC player god mindest is by far one of the lamest things i've ever seen, and i really only play games on PC

[sage yew]

ha, not even wrong. But can you name a PC title that actually profited from being ported? But even if you can, I feel the trend that has emerged over the past decades, involving multi or cross platform compatibility in which countless degraded PC games have been created

[limber hull]

Portal 2

The split screen feature lended itself perfectly to couch PC play

[sage yew]

...okay, fair

[limber hull]

minecraft made HUGE money off porting to consoles and mobile

fortnite also was a massive success after porting to consoles

Hell, even Goat Simulator did well by increasing its audience to consoles and mobiles

[sage yew]

okay, portal is a good example, but minecraft is somewhat different and I don't see the game equal to PC at all and it probably also profited from the young target group. A console port was also at best here an afterthought, which had no impact on PC. The other way around would never worked so well for PC, if porting decisions ware made earlier

[gilded hinge]

does it always need to be on pc? it worked on mobile

[limber hull]

i'd say ark survival evolved but that game is honestly hot garbage, port or no port, and i dont touch it with a 10 foot pole so

[sage yew]

calling me overdramatic xD

but I still agree though

[limber hull]

you literally said you would rather the earth burn than share a game with console players

[gilded hinge]

its sweet next to yours

[limber hull]

i didnt wish planet-wide destruction over video games

[sage yew]

no no, over consoles

...relax

[gilded hinge]

does that change anything though?

[limber hull]

video games vs technology that makes video games work

[sage yew]

eh what?

[limber hull]

anyway, point still stands, we have proof ports can work, can be profitable and are not worthy of a world burning over existing, so I fail to see why The Isle should be exempt from this treatment if it can work

[sage yew]

if it remains an afterthought after development, sure
if porting decisions impact current development? Most likely not

but once it is taken under consideration, every developed aspect needs to take a possible console port into account

[limber hull]

if you read the suggestion, they said "if there's time", which is not the case atm, and probably wont be for a while, so dont worry about it anytime soon

i just think it'd be a nice expansion to the audience

[gilded hinge]

i did mention that they can do it when they "Finish the game"

[sage yew]

yea, sure. But how do you draw the line?
It gets either now under consideration, or "never", which would make a afterthought port possible

[limber hull]

i really dont see why you believe there's a now or never mentality with this kind of thing

[gilded hinge]

they have alot to work on to even consider adding the game to consoles, which is a big reason why i added "when they have time or time to spare"

[sage yew]

because it would just make a good port for consoles harder, the deeper they develop it for consoles. So you either concentrate your attention on PC only or PC/Console compatibility

[limber hull]

or they can wait until they have the time to focus on console and use that time to focus on console. Obviously console isn't, nor should it be, a priority

[sage yew]

I totally understand that phrasing "when its time", but it's not like they wouldn't think of it, until the time has come

if they consider a port, it would be rather stupid to not develop it in a way, that features fit both worlds from the start up

and this usually comes with drawbacks for pc players

[sage yew]

@pulsar lake do you have examples?

[pulsar lake]

It would just be its normal takeoff with a run before that

[harsh anchor]

I feel like this game should focus on gameplay more than anything at this point. Make sure its actually fun for people to play. especially for people who play solo. The game as it stands draws in random small groups of friends to play or the solo guy who likes dinos that has to find pug groups to play. The entire game loop is nothing more than grow for hours to fight a few times and start over. 80% of the time you die to cannibals for literally no reason other than you are trying to find a group out in the world and they are so desperate for something to do they group up and kill you. I would suggest optional friendly fire for your species or separate servers for cannibalism to be on or off. AND FOR THE LOVE OF GOD balance the dinos that are already in the game so people have more options as to what they can play instead of needing 2 separate game saves between Legacy and Evrima. I have had this game since its original release. and to be quite honest after coming and going from this game for SO long I am very disappointed that it hasn't been fully developed yet.

[sage yew]

"Make sure its actually fun for people to play."
this is so trivial, as it could basically mean anything

I'd currently go for actual development, instead of balancing the unbalancable. If this means leaving the mess, what the game currently is, to divert resources to development of features that currently may, or may not be close to useless, but are supposed to work at the end. Well... I'd just take a break from playing then. Why waste time and money for short term fun. But I do hope for a hotfix for at least some aspects of the game in the near future

[harsh anchor]

Its fairly obvious you have missed the point entirely . Its a broad statement because there are many aspects of gameplay that could be improved to make it more enjoyable not just the ones I'm thinking of right now. More options for playable dinos in the official servers would be an option. How exactly are they "unbalancable" its a video game you can balance a potato to be just as powerful as a GOD if you want to . Balancing and increasing playable dino types is " actual development" and "I'd just take a break from playing then. Why waste time and money for short term fun" is about the dumbest thing you have said in that entire statement. The money was wasted when the game was purchased and the game has been was "released" in 2015. Tell me how exactly you spend 7 YEARS+ developing a game earning around 21 MILLION bucks and still dont have a well polished FINISHED product. ?

long story short. games not worth the 20 bucks. and will likely never be finished.

[barren zephyr]

Disagree

[rocky shoal]

I think it's worth 20 bucks

[barren zephyr]

The last update definitely did break the balance

but other than that the game is pretty good

[rocky shoal]

I mean, gameplay wise, maybe about 15 but the graphics alone, the detail in the models. That's what makes it 20 bucks. Imo at least

[barren zephyr]

I think the developers are doing a good job in most except balancing imo

[faint folio]

The game hasn't been released. It clearly says Early Access right next to Release. Early Access across the board means the game is in development. And many games do take 7+ years to develop, but in large studios they keep early dev under wraps. Finally, evrima has only been in development for 2 years-- I heard something about the original source code for the legacy isle being lost or destroyed or something, which is why they had to start over

[sage yew]

Oh, the money aspect was directed to the developers.
But yes, you are not wrong, some aspects of the game should be fixable, maybe even with low effort investments. That's why I hope for a hotfix, to make it more enjoyable. The desire for it is totally understandable.

What I mean by balancing the unbalancable is that the game is missing core mechenics and practically you are not so far away with the potato to god comparison. The best the game currently can do is do be broken in such a way, that the Alpha state get's enjoyable, but will sureley not resemble anything to an actual working game.
Some stuff needs to be fixed, implemented or changed, before balancing can actually do it's job and without it, it's just a mostly pointless effort, as new features and mechanics can easily brake it again and enother time span of fixing, adjusting and balancing is wasted, instead of actually working on the game.

you can't make it "more fun" by simply adding new playables. As you can see, even 7+2 playables seem to be a nightmare to balance them out, as The Isle is from the ground up an asymetric game, you can't really balance out in the first place.

It's currently a (fun) brawler game. Investments into this should be kept as low as possible and requests to improve this state of a game will not improve the end result at all.

[barren zephyr]

@small anchor Stego if anything needs a buff. it just feels like it's op because you have no other apexes in

plus slowing down it's animation would look weird

[faint folio]

Also, I've given the game a ton of hours of playing. Since the point of games is to entertain, if I played even 200 hours, that's paying $1 per 10 hours of engagement. That's an absolute bargain. I'm not going to get that kind of deal on going to the theater to watch a movie, or buying a book

[sage yew]

I'd only consider stegos clipping issues as OP/Broken
but beside that he seems fine tho

[faint folio]

And many players play a lot more than 200 hours. So tbh I think $20 is money well spent

[barren zephyr]

I'm not familiar with clipping issues...

[rocky shoal]

That's the best explanation I've seen omh

[sage yew]

his tail clips through rocks, hills and trees. Tree camping makes it somewhat weird to fight. He can use it for defense, getting raptors of but others can't hide behind a tree, while stegos tail just slams every player, even if it shouldn't be possible

[barren zephyr]

oh yes, that needs some work

Because being in a building as a human and then having a stego just kill you through a wall like that...bruh

[sage yew]

don't forget the big warning sign, specifically mentioning it that it's not finished

[faint folio]

Yeah. It's a good way to think about it. Yeah, you may not play the game forever, but if you got your money's worth then it was worth it. I mean heck, I used to pay $55 an hour for riding lessons, and I didn't complain about how it wasn't worth my time or money because I never went to shows. Because it was entertaining

[faint folio]

Yeah, I mentioned that too if you scroll up. It does explicitly state it's in development and may change radically, be buggy, etc

[barren zephyr]

It doesn't matter how long it has been it's still in early access

[rocky shoal]

Games take time

Especially when they're of this scale, and especially since they practically remade the entire thing

[small anchor]

no, would look realistically as how it should be

look how heavier that thing is and how faster it land swipes

also it can spam them being that heavier. ???????????

[sage yew]

and everyone googling "early access" gets to know, how uncertain and underwhelming development can be

especially for new open world concept games that don't just want to be like every other game. Totally underfunded and the only way to finance such a beast is ...well... EA

[small anchor]

and no it doesnt need buffs, not now

[rocky shoal]

Just cause something is big doesn't make it slow

[barren zephyr]

Honestly, I was thinking that stegos swing was perfect

It's quick swing is fast

you're probably thinking about the quick swing

[small anchor]

its big and heavier, use the mind to connect everything XD

[small anchor]

not the quick swing

it attacks fast

[barren zephyr]

then I 100% disagree

[small anchor]

alright its your opinion i have mine

[barren zephyr]

No it doesn't?

I'm confused

[rocky shoal]

Cows are big and heavier as well, so are rhinos, elephants, etc

Even hippos

[small anchor]

we are talking about a extinct dinosaur or today animals?

[barren zephyr]

Giving examples

[rocky shoal]

Have you seen a stego attack before? Do you have proof that they for sure moved slowly even when attacking?

[faint folio]

Blue whales can fight predators. How? By whacking them with their tail, against water resistance. Being hit can stun and smash bone. They can also swing their tail quite quickly if needed.

How? When they're the largest animal that has ever lived? Large tail and even larger tail muscles. Stego is the same

[rocky shoal]

I'm connecting evolutionary paths (or smth thay sounds smart idk)

Big animals are big animals. Extinct or not, it doesn't matter. We can look at stuff today to learn about stuff that isn't alive anymore

Hell, we've even figured out what T-Rex could have tasted like by looking at it's ancestors

[barren zephyr]

What's it taste like?

[rocky shoal]

Chimkin

So, dino nuggies are, quite literally, dino nuggies /hj

[sage yew]

...chicken?

[rocky shoal]

Yees

[harsh anchor]

With 21 million in revenue you could literally hire a pro team to completely remake your game for you at a finished state and have money left over. ... in way less time. Just saying ... either way I'm not here to argue. I just gave my honest opinion dont care if ppl agree or not. I'm deleting the game again and forgetting about it. Good luck with the remaining 30 years of development

[rocky shoal]

Then delete it, no one cares. We'll all have fun with or without you

[tall hearth]

https://tenor.com/view/he-said-the-thing-destiny2-gif-23566391

[sage yew]

maybe if you go for a casual game and at least for now is The Isle not heading that way. Developing features and mechanics that haven't been before requires more than just money and manpower, it requires a huge portion of testing and experimenting, which simply takes time

there is a reason why people crave for open world survival games and so many attempts by other studios have failed

[tall hearth]

Its gonna be a great 30 years boys

[sage yew]

what kind of cancer is this.... wtf

[sage yew]

no need to be rude

[tall hearth]

I like posting it when people exaggerate how much time its gonna take the devs to make the game lol

[small anchor]

as how i said, we are talking about a extinct dinosaur or today animals?

dont come to me with that

i gave my opinion about a dinosaur in a game i never talked about today animals

[tall hearth]

We're actually talking about video game balance and cloned animals

[small anchor]

no buddy

[sage yew]

huh? living animals are the best comparison we can get tho

[tall hearth]

Yes buddy, the dinos you're playing are actual lab experiments.

[small anchor]

Those are extinct dinosaurs, never talked about today animals, buddy.

[harsh anchor]

This is what it looks like when a bunch of people get butthurt because they seen an opinion that doesn't agree with them. I figured I'd leave an honest opinion for the devs to see and maybe think about for just a sec. But seems I've awoken the Dino game simp hive and made them angry. Either way I'm gone.

[sage yew]

sure, but it should be comprehensible by applying knowledge and understandings of currently living things

[small anchor]

i talked about how speedy it manages to land a tail swip comparing to the heavier it is, wich meant weird to me.. and those came to me with rhinos, whales.. ¿?¿?

[small anchor]

LMAOO OMG hahahahhs

[sage yew]

you can't compare it to a living stego

[rocky shoal]

Sorry ^^

[tall hearth]

Wait who's butthurt? I'm for sure not, dont think anyone else is either. You came in, complained a bit and left. You're not the first and not the last either lol

Ah well, yet another person who bought an early access game and expected a fully finished product.

[rocky shoal]

LMFAO

[sage yew]

this game has just too many balancing issues, I couldn't tell if anything is too weak, strong, or actually as intended and even if something is like it is supposed to be, there are still all the broken or missing stuffs that make it hard to grasp

[small anchor]

You can compare it with the paleontological evidence that we have, if they are going to correct me, correct me correctly.
Not putting in the same bag a subject that I did not touch on, which are the animals of today.
I talked about how a dinosaur so heavy, big, manages to swing its tail so quickly. Are you/yall going to answer that? If you are not going to respond specifically to that, I ask you to stop @ping me, thanks.

[sage yew]

no

[rocky shoal]

Why can elephants swing their trunks so quickly?

We are answering it, we are answering you with what we know.

[sage yew]

maybe I'm wrong, but stegos slam never made the impression to me it would break the laws of physics - beside of clipping stuff and sometimes weird collision detection with playables, but this applies currently to all others as well

[small anchor]

Boy, are you going to make me tilt, HOW DO YOU COMPARE A TRUNK WITH A TAIL THAT REQUIRES ALL THE WEIGHT OF THE BODY TO MAKE THE ROTATIONAL MOVEMENT TOWARDS THE PLACE WHERE THE STEGO WANTS TO ATTACK?
Look at what you are answering me with god you are not even answering you are trying to be smart and pretend that you are answering something

[rocky shoal]

Oh I'm sorry let me go ask the stego I keep in my garage real fast

[small anchor]

I agree that doesn't break law of physics but it is too heavier to tail swip so fast, and its just a opinion damn god im not even showing u anything paleontologic

[small anchor]

someone laugh at the funny person on duty

just stop it man you dont* even know what to respond to me

[rocky shoal]

Bro you aren't bringing forth any evidence to support your claim

Look at heavy animals today

[small anchor]

as how i said for the third time,
ITS
AN
OPINION

can you read it instead of keep the random-throwing of "evidence"

[rocky shoal]

[small anchor]

and stills..

[rocky shoal]

I know I know

Dinosaurs are extinct

So we "can't compare them to modern day animals" even though that's literally what we do all the time

[small anchor]

It's also evolution, how do you compare something evolved to its "first stage" in the way you should, to refute my opinion?

[rocky shoal]

Tf does first stage mean

[small anchor]

You bring up an elephant

[rocky shoal]

Yes, a large and heavy land mammal

[small anchor]

Is that the actual evolution of the stego.?

[rocky shoal]

I don't know. But they are both heavy animals

That attack fairly quickly

From what we animate for the stego

To an elephant using it's tusks

[small anchor]

but look at them in turn, you are comparing a trunk that (I think) only requires the force of the same trunk, the stego's tail not only requires the force of the tail itself, but also requires the driving force of its body. What you see in the game when you make your stego spin wide to attack what is in front of it.
I don't understand how you compare that

It does a turn, it pushes its tail away in a very quick time

[rocky shoal]

Okay, look at the whale example then

[small anchor]

Hows that possible to a 5+ t dinosaur

I've never seen a whale attacking

Lemme search that

[rocky shoal]

This example specifically

[small anchor]

But they are swimming, or jumping out of the water. It is as if we compare (from the game) the deino with the stego, that because the deino swims fast or not, it is because it is specialized in that, it has the capabilities to do it.
I'm not saying that a stego doesn't have the ability to make attacks with its tail, but I don't think it has the ability to do it at the speed it does

[sage yew]

It's just my opinion as well. Not even argued against your opinion

[small anchor]

that was not for you............

[gentle flint]

I know your argument was against animals today and that I’m joining a little late, but I don’t think I’ve ever seen an animal struggle to whip it’s tail at great speeds if it wanted..

[tall hearth]

If the devs want to slow the tail down for game balance reasons, that's fine. But theres no reason to bring "real life balancing" in a game.

Not to mention the dinos in game are genetic experiments done by humans and placed on an island, so they may do different things compared to their real life counterparts.

Game balance comes before realism each and every time.

[faint folio]

Yeah... Whales are both bigger AND heavier than stegosaurus, AND use their tails as their primary weapons that can cause serious damage. AND they have to swing their tail against water resistance to boot (which would require both greater force to move and slow the tail down). And they can still land a tail slap very quickly and powerfully. I think it's a pretty good example of bigger != slower

Alligators and crocodiles also literally whip their muscular tails when fighting on land and can sweep the legs right out from under gazelle, wildebeest, etc. Modern Crocs don't get super big like a blue whale, but again, blue whales are the biggest animals ever. Not currently living- of all time. Including the mosasaurs, megalodon, t Rex, sauropods.

[sage yew]

that's just a free pass for it to be like what ever will happen to be
isn't this approach a bit too lazy?

"is this T-Rex flying?"
"relax, it's mutated"

[tall hearth]

That'd work for me as long as the animation looks good lol.

[faint folio]

And moreover, there's no studies about how fast stegosaurus could swing its tail, and for a long time there wasn't evidence that it used it as a weapon at all. We now have evidence of injuries to predator bones that match the thagomizer, so we know it did use it as a weapon, but without any study of stego tail muscling and ligaments, we can't give you evidence we don't have. But we've given a plethora of evidence showing bigger more massive animals don't necessarily move slower than small animals. I haven't seen you provide evidence that larger animals must move slower, though.

[sage yew]

I go mostly by the rule "is it believable"

and if remotely possible going by existing examples

birds, crocs or just an animal that seems to be equally big

[faint folio]

That's fair. That's why I mentioned the whale-- it's bigger than stegosaurus by quite a bit. Whereas most modern animals are smaller

[sage yew]

an Orca is somewhat in between of 3-4 tons

talking about stegos tail swipe, his muscular abilities might be underestimated looking at his chubby and clunky appearance

[faint folio]

This might be taken down for gore btw

But yeah. An orca whale might be a good comparison too. They're quite athletic

[sage yew]

wouldn't consider any of it gore, but moderator might check it
<@&933486433342222376>

I'm curios

aw

[icy lion]

It's not immensely gory, but we don't permit animals in distress/distressing situations

[sage yew]

how am I supposed to work like this? Unbearable

well

[lucid robin]

#general-feedback message
@clever thorn it would have meat or a body in its mouth when it did the thrash, so imagine this animation with something in its mouth

[sage yew]

Could we discuss the range of tools, given by the gamedesign, and talk about their purpose? If someone had a complete list, this would be awesome.

For example
resource: stomach volume
purpose: storing food, diet intake

"Resource": water storage
purpose: stores water (duh)

might sound trivial, but in this example someone could ask, why stomach and water storage are separated. Putting both together, would put a stronger emphasis on the resource "stomach volume", as players have to decide if they want to store water, food, or a mix of both, or even spare room for additional diet intake.

just an example, but mostly I want to know which tools we have at hand, to have an impact on gameplay experience

[sage yew]

I need a tree diagram of all playables, their abilities and effects o_o

[clever lion]

i need brain cels

[faint folio]

while the stat's icon is a stomach, it is actually the hunger value, same as the water droplet represents thirst

So it's meaning is more conceptual than "my stomach is full"

When hunger is full it represents "I can't eat another bite or I'll throw up" and when it's empty it represents "I am literally starving because I've gone without eating, and it will impact my health if I don't eat now"

So when it is empty your body is literally consuming itself to keep going, which is why the health drops so quickly. you're already past the point of "I have an empty stomach and I feel hungry"

[sage yew]

it can be described that way, yes
the other way around it works too

stomach is basically the inventory with a drain value and food is an item, you can pick up, and store there. With the implementation of diets, you have 3 types of items you can put there.
The relative Inventory size increases with time, while I currently assume that drain works in % the same for all growth steps. Which basically means that stomach requires much more resources, for the same effect (life/time). In other words, the bigger you grow, the lower the value of the same food.

food/growth -> stomach -> playtime (+diets -> buffs)

it's basically a "passive eating from the inventory" mechanic - to make it work in an animal game, with no "real" inventory.

And "inventory" is an resource. Something you usually also have to manage.

⬇️

⬇️

Time remaining till health drain kicks in

[agile roost]

#general-feedback message

No

[cyan flame]

@polar inletOr maybe they know that stego isnt half as "immortal" as that and takes at least 5 headshots to kill an adult deino (and deino requires 7 headshots to kill a stego).

[polar inlet]

If you like the game in this state... good for you... I prefere a more realistic and fixed environment. not herbivores that kills 8 tons of carnivore in his habitat (underwater) with 3 tail shot.

[cyan flame]

Realistic, oh I don't think you want that. Because if so, either of those playables would one shot each other on head and such funny things. And I did just point out how many attacks it takes, there's no 3shot from a stego on a deino that is also grown, simple as that.

[polar inlet]

Oh yes you are right...

[sage yew]

realistically no stego would put his tail into deino infested waters for "fishing"

[limber hull]

realistically, no deino would take that bait

and yet we have a bunch of fish-brained deinos chomping onto a baitless hook

then complaining when they die for it

[sage yew]

to be fair, what else are they (currently) supposed to do

[limber hull]

swim away/past

it is by far the easiest solution you can make and yet no one can

[sage yew]

I've meant entertainment wise, not logic wise

[limber hull]

If losing a 5 hour animal to something you could've easily avoided is entertaining, that's on you lol

I feel like people don't really understand that a giant gator isn't going to be getting action all the time

It's all about being a patient predator that waits for opportunity, rather than finding it itself

[sage yew]

loosing an animal after 5 hours of playtimes is fine to me though
but I was talking about something else here. For example avoding dangers, simply makes you avoid already limited gameplay interactions ....so.... go for the risk or live forever

[limber hull]

if they make the choice to take that risk, they have no place to then complain that it wasn't in their favour. They should know their limits, not expect a different result from an already established interaction

[sage yew]

that's true

[sage yew]

@round mantle this is probably not solvable. Not because changes couldn't fix it, but because some people get bored. That's a bigger issue with huge impacts on enjoyability. What you've described, fits currently every other species as well.

[round mantle]

🙏

[sage yew]

#general-feedback message

maybe you are interested into this idea, making interactions like lunge from a one-player-interaction into two-player-interaction. Some form of "counterplay"

[tepid gate]

@tawdry oyster oh boi, tracking got nerfed not long ago because it was completely broken prior to... I think update 5. You were basically handheld and walked straight to whatever it was you were tracking. Idk if it needs buffs but I tracked a juvie Stego as a juvie Deino on this update without any issues using the scent and tracking.

[sage yew]

scrap tracking entirely and build it from the ground up - imo

[tawdry oyster]

I agree, well I’m not saying that it needs to be op, I’m just saying it needs a buff. For some dinos it should be a bit difficult to track, as the trail of footsteps doesn’t light up completely, more like a few footsteps. But for Raptors, a good tracking animal, the path should light up completely.

@tidal plume Stego is perfectly balanced, it just doesn’t have strong opposition

If it could be killed by dinos like Carno, deino and smaller then it wouldn’t be strong.

Plus Stego used to easily defend itself against 2 Allosaurs, which are bigger than Carnotaurus.

Once it gets strong opposition the “population” of stegos will be smaller than it currently is

[tepid gate]

I don't necessarily disagree but I don't have a strong opinion either, I think different predators should have different levels of tracking but maybe they will introduce that later on

Carno should be a garbage tracker

[tawdry oyster]

Hopefully

[tepid gate]

Cerato should be godlike at tracking

[sage yew]

isn't it "canon" that carno has bad eyesight but good tracking?

[tepid gate]

ermmm not sure where that would be coming from

but irl idk about Carno having a bad eyesight

[sage yew]

documentaries, but I'm not sure on that one

[tepid gate]

honestly I know very little about eyesights of dinosaurs aside from the fact that Rec had amazing vision

yea idk about that tbh I don't believe there's ever been a study about Carno's vision

Carno in general isn't very commonly studied

[sage yew]

but if so, how do you translate "bad eyesight" into the game?

[tepid gate]

unfortunately

[tepid gate]

I don't think you do without doing things that could be potentially irritating to people

[sage yew]

-maybe render distance
-or a postprocessing effect, that only updates changes ...back to the old folklore: if it doesn't move, it can't see you
-short NW radius

[tepid gate]

I just think that Carno specifically should be bad at tracking because I see it as an animal that sees something and runs it down and either kills it or gives up on it

it shouldn't be good at following its prey

and it shouldn't be good in the areas that aren't open

[cyan flame]

@azure fiberWhat do you mean with "drop" the omni?

[sage yew]

maybe not focus on carno too much here
what if eysight is a trait that can differ between sepcies

[azure fiber]

Pounce

[tepid gate]

bucking, she means bucking

[azure fiber]

Now every dino besides of deino can drop it

[tepid gate]

Deino drops it just as easily

you just rarely get to see that because a/ utahs rarely pounce Deino b/ Deino doesn't have to buck, it can just wait, save stamina and instakill Utah right after it stops the pounce

since it won't bleed out either way

[cyan flame]

So... you don't think carno and pachy should have a way to counter the pounce then, for some reason? That doesn't seem very balanced to me, not to mention that every singe critter that can be pounced, can buck, including omnis for smaller omnis and so on. Also pachy had worse bleed, it wasn't good at all, now it got a small bleed res buff which it needed.

[azure fiber]

Yea but carnos are to OP now

[tepid gate]

They are op like hell for all the other reasons than bucking

specifically because charge is overtuned

[azure fiber]

And pachys is are the same tier as omni

[tepid gate]

Pachy is a broken piece of garbage and has been ever since it came out and it just varies from worthless to absurdly overpowered

[azure fiber]

Its good to pachy can easily break raptor bones and utahs could easily give it big bleed

[tepid gate]

it needs some reworks

[urban flax]

The fact they are the same tier means they should stand a chance, not that they should be guaranteed to die as soon as an omni decides to pounce them

[tepid gate]

you're better off biting Pachy to death than bleeding it with Utah right now

Pachy drops pretty fast to your bites

you just have to be wary of getting hit

although the pounce also deals a decent damage so

[azure fiber]

I can say the same but with omni and bones

[tepid gate]

Omni isn't meant to be winning the fight against Pachy 1v1, it's meant to be a difficult fight

[cyan flame]

Yes, carnos are overtuned, as are pachies, but not due to bucking. And removing a mechanical counter to another mechanic is just bad all around. But pachy is meant to hard counter omni, not to be an even fight. And carno is meant to hunt omnis, and is way larger, again not an even fight by any means.

[urban flax]

Having one broken bone isn't a guranteed death for the omni

[cyan flame]

I would say it depends on the critters. Omni is designed to punch up, so it shouldn't neccesarily be as good vs same tier as some others that are less capable of punching up.

[azure fiber]

If pachys are still near yes

[sage yew]

could become even worse, should pain ever play a role

[tawdry oyster]

@azure fiber Not having a counter for the pounce is stupid. I get that Omni is really bad right now but that’s because of how fast your stam gets drained while pouncing. So far after playing Omni I haven’t got bucked ever. Plus if you’re a smart enough of a Raptor you would know to jump off when the dinosaur you’re latched on to is charging towards a tree.

[sage yew]

if there wasn't sometimes this pesky input delay...

[tawdry oyster]

Wdym

[sage yew]

sometimes it takes like 0.5 seconds before it jumps of. So it happens that you jump of too late, still hit the tree, or get knocked of by buck so you drop of with 0% stam

[tawdry oyster]

I haven’t really noticed a delay

But that’s a risk that Omnis should be weary of

[sage yew]

maybe PC peformce plays a role here too

[tawdry oyster]

Animation aswell

[sage yew]

sometimes I'm 100% sure my timing was perfect but somehow the game notices it too late

[icy lion]

Do you remember your average ping? That can play a role too

[tawdry oyster]

I mean, are you really that surprised? Carnos hit you with a charge from a mile away 🤣

[sage yew]

hart to track it in heated situations, but if remembered correctly it should be somewhat around 50.

[tawdry oyster]

Bru

I get 40, and sometimes I get massive frame drops

[sage yew]

nah, not really. That why I don't try to complain about it, just wanted to mention it

[tidal plume]

The entire reason a dino gets a debuff is so it doesn't completely overpower every other dino. Stego does that with 0 competition. Just because it's possible for the only large terrestrial predator to kill it doesn't mean it's not strong, it's just basic game balance. Plus, it's competition won't come for a very long time so stegos will be OP for years

[cyan flame]

Deinos can kill stego in duos, omni can kill stegos in packs. Compared to deino, stego is quite balanced. Also you are aware that we're gettin proper apexes in the future, who are apparently way more powerful than current deino and stego are. And then imagine how "OP" those two will be :p

[pulsar lake]

https://discordapp.com/channels/401464048610312193/401481371249541120/1071423553272029234
I think that threat call is far too animated and cartoony.

[tawdry oyster]

Exactly

The only thing Stegos should have nerfed is their stamina

[sage yew]

deinos make currently the best ambient sounds - I love it (not knowing how it could be otherwise - videos of old sounds?)

[tidal plume]

The recent update nerfed omni into uselessness. Deinos can kill stegos in duos but deinos are region locked and it's not difficult for dinos to find good drinking spots. Again, the apexs you mention won't come for years.

[tawdry oyster]

Somewhere between not being able to catch up to dinos that are smaller and enough to get away from larger predators

[pulsar lake]

https://youtu.be/PJcvlDJrz8A?t=115

[tawdry oyster]

What do drinking spots have to do with balancing?

[sage yew]

true, but about omni it's propably a temporary mistake (I guess)

[cyan flame]

You mean run stamina right, not attack stamina? Though Im not sure run stamina is that good, I'd rather we get a slightly slower and better looking run to be honest :p

[tawdry oyster]

Yes run stam

[tidal plume]

Stegos can avoid deinos easily thus deinos not having a large impact on stegos pop

[tawdry oyster]

But they are still able to take one out

[tidal plume]

We'll see

[tawdry oyster]

Meaning stego is balanced

[tidal plume]

Yes, but how often does that happen

[cyan flame]

Omni is still quite capable, and far from useless. Deinos are not as region locked as you might think, they come up on land more often than they should. But it's fine, because all stegos have to go drink at some point. And if they drink where there are no deinos, then the deinos need not worry about the stegos, so there's that. And we don't know how long it'll take until rex and trike are in, but since they were mentioned in the blog, it might be sooner than we think. And they were stated to be way more powerful than deino and stego at that, since they're "true" apexes.

[tawdry oyster]

Will happen more often once it gets land opposition

[tidal plume]

One other apex can kill it in a duo doesn't make it balanced since there's an entire other roster

[sage yew]

actually, without hitbox and delay issues, omnis pounce how it is right now could maybe even work very well - with some small adjustments

[tawdry oyster]

Yes it does make it balanced

[cyan flame]

Only thing killing deino is deino. It's even more imbalanced. Considering it also has a oneshot on everything else, including stegos up to 4T, and is practically invisible when it attacks.

[tawdry oyster]

You shouldn’t be able to kill it with a single smaller dino

That’s just absurd

[tidal plume]

Im glad you're not a dev cause that doesn't solve anything

[tawdry oyster]

And what do you propose then?

[tidal plume]

Stegos kill deinos all the time. Most of my diet comes from deinos just dying to stegos in a fight

[cyan flame]

Then consider how easy deino is to grow, compared to stego, and you'll soon realize deinos are far more popular (when they should in reality be harder to get and sustain than a stego), and overall present far more issues for the rest of the roster than stego does.

[tawdry oyster]

Carnos being able to kill a Stego?

Please

[cyan flame]

Let me clarify then. You never die to a stego unless you're a deino with fish level brain. Use more than half a braincell and the stego can do nothing.

So sure, deinos die to stegos, because they choose to.

That is not something to use for balance, honestly.

[tawdry oyster]

If you die to a stego, it was probably to a stego herd

[sage yew]

how about this for cannibals:
what if only cannibalism could fill up a diet? With no alternatives
so you are always confronted with imminent danger, instead of a gamble by freedom of choice

[tawdry oyster]

Or you were 1v1’ing a stego

[tidal plume]

You're acting like your experiences equate to the entire balance of them game.

[cyan flame]

Not even that. Unless you were in a few, very specific spots (and since deinos like to argue that you should drink from shallow spots to avoid them, you could make the same argument for the deinos, don't be in shallow spots where stegos can reach you (most likely the NW rock area)).

[tawdry oyster]

And yours do?

[cyan flame]

Yes because I understand how the matchups goes. It's not even experience or balance, it's just reason.

You can just swim away from the thagomizer. You're not bound to engage with the stego at all.

[tidal plume]

I never said anything of the such. Deinos dying to stegos often is just a fact of the game

[cyan flame]

You got free food in the form of AI fish that also gives a diet, so you avoid the negative effects.

It's more so that I look at why they die and if they could avoid it, and measure from there.

[tawdry oyster]

You don’t even need experiences, it’s common sense that Stegos>current Evrima roster

[cyan flame]

Deino has the greater ability to avoid stego, than the other way around, since stego does need to go drink.

[tidal plume]

Nobody is denying deinos being op. It's just the lack of impact deinos have of stegos pop and stegos on deinos respectively

[cyan flame]

While deino does not need to go near a stego for any survival reason. Meanwhile a stego can't tell if a deino is in the water if it's under the surface, so unless it goes to specific spots, it is at risk of a deino, but the deino can just... sit there and let the stego drink and leave.

Stegos only real impact on deinos is that it prevents them from just going on land entirely.

[tidal plume]

Exactly. That's what I was trying to say in my post.

[cyan flame]

But it's a good thing that stegos do that though? If they couldn't do that, nothing would stop the deinos.

[tawdry oyster]

And what exactly is your point. Yeah Deinos have small impact because they hang out in rivers. But that doesn’t mean Stego should be nerfed

[tidal plume]

It can still do that and still not be OP. There are ways of balancing stego so that I can do that while also not being invincible to anything but deino

[cyan flame]

And how would you nerf it then to keep it able to fight off deinos?

[tidal plume]

My point is that stegos are so OP and need to be nerfed for the sake of game balancd

[cyan flame]

And how would you nerf deinos so they're not invincible to anything but another deino?

[tawdry oyster]

But they’re “OP” for a reason

[cyan flame]

The balance is fine, as a matter of fact, it's more likely than not that stego and deino will need to be massively buffed when rex and trike are out. :p

But for the sake of curiosity, how would you change stego and deino then so that they can both be hunted by the rest of the roster properly?

[tidal plume]

Decrease its bleed resistance. It still has the opportunity to fight off deinos and survive while also giving large packs of carno and omni a chance at kill them at a steady rate

[tidal plume]

Which one?

[tawdry oyster]

That’s it?

[tidal plume]

Obviously not. More could be done but it's a start to balancing stego

[sage yew]

give deinos reasons on why to go on land
give stegos tail collision with world objects

[cyan flame]

You do that, deinos will shred it. Do you realize how much bleed deino do on headbites? They do a lot.

As will omnis, considering how lethal they are in groups.

[urban flax]

Give every attack collision with world objects actually

[sage yew]

this

[urban flax]

I've played Primal Carnage during the time rexes could eat people inside of buckers by sticking their heads through the walls

[tidal plume]

Yes, but deinos are slow enough that the stego can escape and heal before the deino gets near it if done right

[tawdry oyster]

1. Largest dino in the game right now
2. No land opposition
3. Crocs like deinos never really would be able to hunt a Stego because of it’s mass.

[urban flax]

I think deino is faster than stego when both are FG

[cyan flame]

No. Especially not if they have subs with them. And this would only mean stegos run, which means they cant force the deino back into water, thus removing that matchup.

The point was to keep stego able to fight off deinos perfectly fine, while still "nerfing" them.

[tawdry oyster]

Oh and I forgot to mention that Utah raptor is bad right now so it would get destroyed if a pack attacked a solo Stego

[cyan flame]

Nah, they're still very capable of doing it. Just need to apply group pouncing to force buck and drain mass amounts of stam it turns out.

[urban flax]

Use tactics, as a raptor ? Unconceivable

[cyan flame]

Omni is almost as good as it was before, just need to adjust for the bucking and you're still solid.

Just tap pounce, and get the full "load" on at the same time, and the target will be in severe trrouble.

[tawdry oyster]

I just thing their stam should be better

[cyan flame]

I guess it's very rare to have the entire pack pounce at the same time, despite that being the logical approach :p

[tawdry oyster]

No stam=no pounce=hard to attack Stego

[tawdry oyster]

While pouncing

[sage yew]

maybe not focus so much on just temporary stuff

[tidal plume]

Yes. Deinos do not have enough stam to keep up for long and the water drain is tough especially far way from land. The sub speed is just a temporary glitch which will get fixed in the next update

[cyan flame]

Yes, the collision needs fixing, on every playable (rex bites humans through walls and other fun stuff). And maybe deinos should have to bask or something, to make them more vunerable and visible (though as it stands, even if you forced them to bask, nothing but a stego would threaten them, they can wipe carnos, and omnis even more so).

[cyan flame]

That still wouldn't work because the stego would have to retreat, thus letting the deino do as it wishes. A deino should not be able to threaten a stego on land, simple as that.

[tidal plume]

Again, nobody is denying the overpoweredness of deinos but that's not the issue I was describing

[sage yew]

going on land is currently for deino 100% optional

so yes

[cyan flame]

No, you think for some reason stego is more op than deino when deino is the greater problem, and any nerf to stego is only going to ruin it's matchup with deino, unless you nerf deino too.

[tawdry oyster]

^^^^

[cyan flame]

What you could do, is lower deino weight to 4T, and lower stego to 4-5T or something as well. That way you're making both of them vunerable, but also keeping the matchup, a bit more favoured for stego but that's fine because deino does not need to go near stegos as described earlier.

So lower both of them to 4T, and there you go. Keep everything else, but now deinos are far more vunerable to the land critters, so are stegos, and deinos remain vunerable to stegos.

[tidal plume]

You're putting words in my mouth at this point. I never once said that deino wasn't more op than stego. If deino needs to be nerfed too than so be it. The problem I wad outlining the entire time was that stego is incredibly op and somewhat ruins the ecosystem

Debuffing is not a blanking. Certain things can be changed to make a healthy environment

[sage yew]

*"Basking could basically mean that you switch between traversing over land and water

if deino is cold on land = slow, but speeds up over time
if deino is warm on land = fast, but prone to overheating

if deino is cold in water = slows down over time
if deino is warm in water = you better run from it as fast as you can

being on land warms you up
being in water chills you down

body temperature could also effect metabolism
as being warm consumes faster food, but gives more stamina
and being cold consumes less food, but stamina drains faster

chilling yourself down could save you from starvation
and heating yourself up expands your abilities to hunt"*

#general-feedback-discussion message

[cyan flame]

I did ask you to provide nerfs for stego that doesn't change the deino matchup. But changing stego bleed res will mean deinos can solo them even easier than they currently can.

Which is not helpful for keeping stegos as the thing that forces deinos to remain in the water.

[tidal plume]

What makes you think I gave that example and thought it was perfect. I'm not their programmer and I don't need to make these decisions for them. What I can do and my entire purpose for posting the post was to outline why stego is op and why it needs to be changed

It is THEIR choices to fix it in a way that works.

[sage yew]

sometimes it feels like a "than make it work" attitude

but I'm in on deino basking

[tidal plume]

Is it so much to ask for the devs to know how to fix their own game

[sage yew]

huh?

[cyan flame]

Maybe there isn't a need to fix something? For all we know, they can consider the current circumstances just fine.

Or at least acceptable for the time being.

[tidal plume]

And I outlined why I think it does need change. What's your point

[cyan flame]

It was an answer to this statement you made.

[sage yew]

that's a big issue discussing the current game
no one really knows whats going on or if anything actually is like it is intended

[limber hull]

I love how people are trying to solve carno and pachy awful balance by just making omni awful again

Every update needs to have one absolutely terribly unfun animal at least

[tawdry oyster]

Fr

[sage yew]

fr?

[tawdry oyster]

For real

[urban flax]

french

[limber hull]

Surely the idea of simply weakening pachy's ability to punch up and carno's ability to kill animals near its size aren't options

[tawdry oyster]

[limber hull]

We need specifically omni to once again rule the entire island

[cyan flame]

Omni is the protagonist of the Isle!

[sage yew]

fromage?

someone rolls a dice, grab a tub of popcorn and watch the scene unfold

[limber hull]

Small game hunter countering small game like omni? Preposterous, let omni easily dispatch of them.

The small-tier bully that obliterates anything in its size tier, like omni? Yea, remove all the systems in place to protect it from omni, because clearly omni deserves more.

[urban flax]

Omni is carnivore
Therefore omni ruling the Isle is better than stego, because stego smelly herbivore

[tawdry oyster]

Wdym smelly

[limber hull]

Let's just ignore the fact that U6's most engaging matchup involves the two animals people want to power creep the hell out of, omni and teno, because rather than nerfing the problem animals, let's just buff everything so everything is a problem

[urban flax]

I mean eat grass and die

[tawdry oyster]

good

[limber hull]

i still find it hysterical that people call omni underpowered, yet it has by far the most balanced and engaging matchup with the most balanced animal in the game, teno

teno v omni U6 is literally the shining star of balance, amongst a sea of completely overpowered gods

such a fun fight

i will be as bold as to say teno and omni matchups are by far the best balanced and most engaging they have ever been

[tawdry oyster]

I think the only issue is stam drain while pouncing

[limber hull]

i agree

[tawdry oyster]

That’s it.

Other then that it’s how it should be

[limber hull]

there needs to be better visual conveyance, it's simply far too hard to read when you're getting bucked and losing stamina that fast

[sage yew]

sometimes bucking animation doesn't play

[limber hull]

but knowing this community, they'll riot if omni doesn't get a buff next update

even if both carno and pachy get their deserved nerfs

[sage yew]

they riot anyway

[tawdry oyster]

Have you ever seen an animation for getting hit by carnos charge?

Me neither

[limber hull]

also, hot take, omni vs pachy atm is perfectly fine and needs no changes, pachy should instead be nerfed in the teno v pachy/carno v pachy matchups

[tawdry oyster]

And Pachy should have his head slam fixed

Not in a balance way but in a bug way

Cause you freeze when you slam something

[sage yew]

that's a bug?

[tawdry oyster]

Yea

You head slam something and you instantly freeze, can’t move, can’t attack. You can only watch as your Pachy gets killed

Idk if it happens every time you use it but it is a thing

[sage yew]

but isn't a short stun actually intended?

[tawdry oyster]

It’s not a stun

You actually freeze in place

Once I was fighting deinos, I head slammed one and froze and stood there for a solid 15 seconds until I died

[sage yew]

when I see a pachy hitting a pachy, it goes over to a stun and head shaking animation ...is it this maybe?

[tawdry oyster]

No it’s not

[sage yew]

oh, so really a freeze?

[tawdry oyster]

Yep

[cyan flame]

I think that might have been recoil if the deino was too large?

[tawdry oyster]

15 second recoil?

[cyan flame]

Though that seems like a very excessive time to be fair

Yeah, doesn't sound right

So probs some kind of bug, maybe there's some issue that hasn't been noticed, not sure how common it is for pachies to overextend on their rams

[tawdry oyster]

I’m not really sure either. But it happened the only 2 times I played pachy, and I died the exact same way

And from what I’ve been told my Patriarch died that way too.

So I’m sure it’s not just me

[sage yew]

#general-feedback-discussion message

#general-feedback-discussion message

I'd like to put this topic back into spotlight

[sage yew]

@fallen bay
I'd think you are a bit overreacting with "you are loosing the
community", numbers might speak for that assumption, but not
necessarily represent the amount of people that are simply just
taking a break and waiting for new stuff to happen. It's maybe that
you fear that you might turn your back on them, because you start to
lose interest? I mean, it would be relatable. Probably circumstances
are just temporary, but still.

On the contrary, even though development>fixing seems more
reasonable in the long run, maybe it's not bad either to sacrifice few
working hours to simply get the most out of the current build.

I don't know if efforts are really worth it, but at least could resulting
improvements make the experience a bit more promising. So people
don't just go total bonkers.

[fallen bay]

People are taking breaks from the game yes. I've done it multiple times because updates were just so slow and fixes for stuff were just as slow

I'm not saying stop working on new stuff until u fixed every single thing but they should at least prioritize fixing the most dramatic stuff

[sage yew]

maybe not to fix everything, but fixing in general would probably
require a break from development non the less. Which becomes even
less attractive, when you actually are working to fix issues by
following a different strategy, which couldn't be applied to the
current build. The trouble would make it double the needed effort.

and don't forget the other faction of people, that start to complain,
that beside of some fixes, no new content is being delivered and
stating how people are leaving because of this.

[rancid raptor]

@proven harbor we haven't had new stuff for damn near a year rzymon

we need "new stuff"

the bugs you're mentioning aren't as gamebreaking as you feel they are, if they were - the devs would have made a hotfix already

our devs know what to do

@tranquil temple Optimization prioritization will be possible once we fully port into UE5

[tranquil temple]

Obrigado pela resposta, espero que mudem para ue5 o mais rápido possível 😁

[rancid raptor]

Muy bien!

[tranquil temple]

Thanks for the reply, hope they switch to ue5 as soon as possible 😁

[rancid raptor]

Suggestions such as these are not nearly as important as our need for variation atm

[tepid gate]

Suggestions such as these are also much, much goddamn easier to implement than a new playable.

Like they don't even compare

[sage yew]

yes, just implement stable server mode

[tall hearth]

new stuff? is night vision, nesting, and gore not "new stuff"? is the only "new stuff" to you playables?

[proud flax]

Have you gotten the one where you bonk something as a pachy and you freeze in place and can’t move anymore

[sage yew]

to be fair, neither of it is currently working very well, nesting doesn't even has a purpose yet and gore is somewhat rudimentary

[proud flax]

Apparently theirs also an exploit that a deino can shove their face into a tree while holding a carno and drop it, causing the carno to tp to the top of the tree and then fall but I’ll have to test that one to be sure. But pachy freezing in place after bonking something heavier then it is pretty much a death sentence as theirs no way to get out of it so far. I’ve seen it happen over.. 5 times yesterday to my friends while they were playing pachy?

[tall hearth]

its still all "new stuff", even if its an early iteration.

[sage yew]

yea I get it, but even if I agree, I don't like to partake on any side of an argument - that's just it

[tall hearth]

instead of constantly asking for more and more new stuff, people should be giving constructive criticism\ on current stuff.

asking for new things is fine, but neglecting to give input on current systems and just going straight to the "GIVE MORE NOW" mentality isnt helping development

[sage yew]

and to be honest, that's hopefully just the beginning, as this game needs waaaaaaaay more, so to say "no new elemets" ...can be "somewhat" true

[sterile pivot]

I mean, to be fair when people get very very little and are promised much more than they recieve, its only understandable that people ask for more stuff beyond criticism. Especially when constructive criticism is ignored or discouraged in the past

[rancid raptor]

This is a good point. I was referring to new playables though

[tall hearth]

which are currently in the works

[rancid raptor]

Gore does have much meaning tho. Different diets from certain bodyparts creates huge change in gameplay

[sage yew]

the main problem I have to give good feedback, is somewhat the lack of intuitive understanding, which feature is supposed to fulfil what role

if anyone tries not to be captain obvious in the general-feedback, it becomes pretty hard to have constructive ideas

[rancid raptor]

Yeah, but haven't been released for a year.
I'm not complaining about it, but I'm saying it's far more important than what she suggested they should focus on. You get what I'm saying?

[tall hearth]

you suggesting "give more playables" isnt gonna speed up their production process on the playables they're currently developing/testing though.

[proud flax]

Ehhh gore just makes me be more picky about what organ I eat lmao, I feel like a snobby picky dinosaur whenever I pick apart a body

[rancid raptor]

No, lmao. I never said that either, as you know.
I'm saying new playables is way more important than what she suggested, currently. Variation is way more important atm

[sage yew]

most animals are actually picky, for many reasons
it translate somewhat well into the game, imo

[rancid raptor]

The gore we currently have works as a large butterfly effect in your gameplay. You can't say otherwise, gore is a large part of what you eat and what you hunt.

[sterile pivot]

I dont know how you feel about this(feel free to share obv) but personally I feel this is how important pieces of development are right now:
Optimization > Mechanics > Fixing current mechanics > new dinos

[unreal ridge]

out of all playables that are in the works, the one we need is ceratosaurus

[unreal ridge]

👍

optimization and game always comes first

[sage yew]

the one we need, lol

[proud flax]

We would have to look at birds and reptiles not just animals, dinosaurs aren’t like wolves lmao

[unreal ridge]

cant have any fun with new things if the game is unplayable

[rancid raptor]

Optimization will soon become better due to porting into UE5 which has been confirmed
Mechanics are fine atm, compared to the state of the game

what we are struggling with is variation

[sage yew]

lmao, rofl lol - do I have to respond to such talk?

[rancid raptor]

Organs are a great decider on what you hunt

[proud flax]

Gore ofc is going to affect eating, if it didn’t it would be pointless but what does gore add to a hebivore?

[tall hearth]

the mechanics arent even all finished yet. we still have venom, elders, and perks to go before the main dino mechanics are finished.

[proud flax]

Good I didn’t wanna talk to you either sweet cheeks

[sterile pivot]

Well I mean mechanics like a server being 80/100 full, then saying its ful when joining, then dropping to 76/100, then still saying its full, then randomly letting you in. Or spending 5 minutes reloading to find servers that dissapear or getting kicked at random/servers crashing. And the queue not working

[rancid raptor]

Gore is a huge add for carnivore. What it adds to herbivore is just butterfly effect.
Herbivores don't need a gore-like diet because they have what they already have. They can find their food way more easily, they just need to migrate more for it

[rancid raptor]

Yeah well that's not nearly as important as variation in the roster.... not nearly

[sterile pivot]

Good point

[sage yew]

ahw man... now I'm hurt
okay, for real now, diva mode of

ehm yes, not wolves, but how did you came up with this?

[unreal ridge]

In ceras concept it is shown to kill a deinosuchus, whether it is a subadult or an adult I think is unknown but something that goes out of its way to eat deinos would be nice
and it is conceptualized to have a bacterial bite, that infects the target, meaning stego isn't safe on its throne anymore

it is also going to be more a tanky carnivore (?) carno and utah are more hit and run kind of guys but cerato gets in there and tears a chunk off, its what we need from an ecosystem perspective

[tepid gate]

that's not a mechanic, that's a bug which causes the wrong numbers to be displayed in the menu

[rancid raptor]

We observe this by seeing huge player spikes when new dinos are released. People love variation in this community. And currently it is the thing we need the most.

[sterile pivot]

I think your right abt that honestly. Though it depends, id rather a perfect server list system than a penquin that can be killed by a fresh spawned deino or a venemous lizard that cant kill anything except frogs and hypsis

[rancid raptor]

yeah but you get what he means

[tepid gate]

that Deinosuchus is tiny, it's not even a subadult

[proud flax]

Literally all I said was just compare dinosaurs to the behaviors of reptiles and birds and not a broad “animal” like you said, but since you decided to be an ass I don’t wanna continue the conversation.

[sterile pivot]

Yeah I mean its a feature I guess, a bugged feature that needs repairing

[tepid gate]

it's a bug that hasn't always been there, it appeared in like Update 4 or 5 or something

idk why it's still not fixed

your guess is as good as mine

[unreal ridge]

its about the same size as the cerato, and in some older evrima models, cerato is like half or 2/3rd the size of stego iirc \

[rancid raptor]

The penguin is not "just a penguin" tho
I agree with you, but the beipi is far more than what you describe it to be.

Deino is currently the only thing in waters. With beipi, there will be double the amount in roster variation when it comes to underwater. That is a huge change of vibe. Deinos don't anymore expect only to see other deinos. Ya get what I mean?

also, i think troodon is coming before beipi. correct me if i'm wrong

[sterile pivot]

Not sure which comes first

[tall hearth]

cerato is shorter than carno, wym half the size of stego

[rancid raptor]

the "venemous lizard" will be in large packs, it has venom and in packs of 12 it will probably kill a pachy or smth

[unreal ridge]

let me find the animation gimme a sec

[proud flax]

Yes it does affect carnivore but I wish it affected herbivore in some other way, like standing next to decaying bodies made em sick or somethin. But I also wish gore was more Gorey

[unreal ridge]

half as in length btw*

[tepid gate]

You're doing some weird gymnastics to estimate the size of that thing, a fresh subadult Deino is on the verge of being 4t, it would just turn around, grab that Cerato and carry it off into the direction of the sunset

[rancid raptor]

That sick thing would be very exploitable.
Just put a sick body next to a herbi nest and the herbi won't be able to move it

and if we made it so herbis could move bodies, they would find ways to grief with that too

it's a complicated topic

brb

[tepid gate]

Cerato is ~7m long

Deinosuchus, a fully grown one, is some 11m long

[sterile pivot]

No ones going to play something that requires a dozen people to kill a llowtier/low midtier, and rather they would like to play a hypsi(Instant adult) or a ptera(can fly). It will be in the same spot as dryo pretty much

I mean it is basically a carnivorous venomous dryo?
Idk I could be wrong I havent looked into troodon much

[unreal ridge]

they are going to make cerato like a jaguar/komodo dragon hybrid

meaning that it is going to kill with bacterial infection, or a crushing bite to the back of the skull, in the concept it is going for a crushing bite to the back of the skull, akin to how jaguars kill their prey

also cerato's concept shows it in the water, swimming away from larger creatures, meaning it does have some aquatic abilities

even if that deino wasn't subadult it would still be dead

[sage yew]

yesterday it was talked about, that cera isn't supposed to hunt, but conquer dead bodies and defend them

....so what now

[sterile pivot]

?

[uneven mist]

“No one” like there isn’t dozen of people that are really excited for it (me included) and there is a discord about

[sterile pivot]

Dryo was exciting at first too, but ultimately it will end up in the same place as dryo based on what we know of how venom will work

[sage yew]

considering what I said, I don't understand the issue, with playing in bigger groups

[uneven mist]

What makes you think so? Dryo is unfun because it’s not finished, it does not have its mechanics like burrowing. Same with hypsi and it’s climbing

[unreal ridge]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/855527844670865438/883589126392283197/Cerato_Grab.gif

found it

[sterile pivot]

I am confused
I talk about troodon, you suddenly respond with cera information, then say something about there isnt a issue with playing in a group that takes up 12% of a server

[unreal ridge]

cerato is either pretty big here or the stego is small

[sage yew]

is this maybe something official? This looks like latch biting

[uneven mist]

You shouldn’t rely on that for both their sizes

[unreal ridge]

yes it was a concept animation

[uneven mist]

That stego is really really small

[sterile pivot]

Steg looks fg from the scales/tail

But that could be a very old model example

[sage yew]

latch biting would be so awesome
basically a complete fight overhaul ...pls make it a thing

[unreal ridge]

it is going to be a thing

[sterile pivot]

Latching bite would be awesome on cera, and a crushing bite would be awesome on deino

[uneven mist]

There are problems with it tho

[tall hearth]

the person who makes these size charts has asked the devs if cera's size here is accurate, and they said it seems right. so not half the size of stego.

cerato is getting a bacterial bite, but its not gonna "kill" with it. the bacterial bite is going to be used defensively to make the target eventually have vomit sickness which drains stam, stomach, and nutrients. its going to have a corpse bully niche, attempting to drive away other predators from meals it want.

[uneven mist]

Don’t think so

[unreal ridge]

look at the concept arts and animations

[uneven mist]

Look at what the devs have said, especially in the devblog

[unreal ridge]

rex is a good example, but that is more or less it picking up and slamming a baryonyx into the ground

[sage yew]

duno, but considering that the game is in alpha and has 100 people ...it hopefully becomes bigger

because once we have lets say 20 playables, it's like 5 people per species

[uneven mist]

Basically this

It’s mechanic Is for defensive purposes

[sterile pivot]

Yeah. I mean, I wouldnt expect larger servers for a very very long time most likely. Only once we get a decent roster, which wont be for many years

[sage yew]

all I can do is to hope... because 100 people definitely won't cut it at all. But it took us what, 20 years to come from 8 player server, to 100 player servers and what does the Isle nead? 200? 500?

[sterile pivot]

Yeah...

[unreal ridge]

from the info i can get on the wiki (probably wrong don't quote me on this) carno's bite is 175N with roughly 2000 hp in evrima

from what I can get from legacy cerato's wiki is that it has around 225-350 damage per hit

I would like to see a little tank cerato

[uneven mist]

That’s already wrong considering it’s not in evrima yet, also 2000 Hp?!! That means it’s 2 tons which is unlikely

Legacy cera I belive was 2 tons

Also never trust the wiki, it’s always incorrect and outdated

[unreal ridge]

that was referring to carno, like i said

i also don't have a carno on hand to look at the stats of, so i used the info available to me, which is probably wrong, like i said

[uneven mist]

Oh, thought it was cera but it’s still wrong, it has 1800 Hp so it’s 1800 kg

[unreal ridge]

I thought they changed the weight = health mechanic in evrima

[uneven mist]

They haven’t

[tall hearth]

i think some of the wiki stats are wrong, and using legacy stats to try and predict evrima stats isnt a good idea. legacy carno was a little over 2 tonsd and had 200 bite force and 52 kmh speed.

legacy cera was 2.25 with 350 bite force, i dont see that happeneing either

[unreal ridge]

they still would need to make cerato stronger than carno, at least one on one for proper balancing, but its the isle

[uneven mist]

It doesn’t really have to be stronger, just make it even so it’s a skill based matchup

[sage yew]

skill based matchup ....it's not a brawler

[unreal ridge]

well, I see your point but ceratosaurus comes at a disadvantage from being a new creature, and people still need to adapt to its mechanics

[uneven mist]

They are roughly the same size, it should depend on skill and I never said in a brawl

[unreal ridge]

people trying to pick up and play cerato might be overwhelmed trying to learn how to play cerato effectively, while being harassed by dinosaurs faster than them and almost as strong as them

[tall hearth]

carno is a small game hunter and cera is a corpse bully, i dont see them having an even match. cera should be able to effectively bully most carnos off with the threat of its septic bite

[unreal ridge]

that depends on the lethality of the septic bite though, it could vary, like bleed where you can power through it and finish a fight, or if you are infected you must stand down, we'll have to see

[sage yew]

yea, but metchup kinda implies it a bit, don't you think?
why should be cera balanced against carno, unless it's a brawler game

[uneven mist]

In a brawl the cera should have the advantage but if carno plays hit and run tactics so that carno has a chance to win, and I’d like it so in the jungle the cera has the advantage and in the plains the carno has the advantage

[sage yew]

or how long it takes for infections to kick in

[unreal ridge]

yep

[sage yew]

maybe it's just not worth it to fight cera
sure, you might win, but is it worth it if you have to suffer afterwards

[unreal ridge]

I was going to say how cerato would probably need a good pack match up vs stego considering it isn't fast enough to chase down tenonto, utah or pachy, but the septic bite would probably get the job done, or an ambush

the only down side is that if you fatally infect them and they go somewhere you can't, you are out of a meal

[uneven mist]

Like I said over you, cera should have the advantage in an outright brawl but if carno ambushes or plays hit and run tactics then carno would have a chance.
Even kissen stated that it isn’t going to be rock paper and scissors and but players skill plays a huge part

[uneven mist]

Cera fighting a stego? Yeah not happening lol, well it couId happen but they would all most likely die

[sage yew]

"skill depends" can actually mean anything, but I just go for it

but why should carno go for cera anyway, like is it on it's diet?

[unreal ridge]

I would like to see cerato's latch bite implemented for this fight too, because the carno has hit and run, and in a pack would probably be able to kill a cerato very quickly

I would like to always have the looming threat of the cornered beast striking back, like a pinning attack, cerato gets a good grab on the carno and just keeps shaking and mauling, it will whittle it down unless the other carnos intervene

[uneven mist]

Competition reasons and so on

[unreal ridge]

like a pin

[uneven mist]

Why would cera hunt stego? It’s not what it’s supposed to do, also a latch ability

[sage yew]

all animals should have latch biting
currently is every dino like a samurai with an invisible sword

[uneven mist]

Yes let me hold down one button and win

[unreal ridge]

deino

[uneven mist]

I hate deinos grab too

[sage yew]

don't degrade it to something one dimensional tho

it could be like this:
#general-feedback message

[unreal ridge]

what else is supposed to hunt stego at this point? deino can't do it unless the player is very skilled and has timing (both of these are halted if there is more than 1 stego)

and we can't add allo yet because it would maul everyone

gotta add hyenas before lions

[uneven mist]

I don’t know about a quick time even in this game, I’d rather make the water more clear so deino has to use the foliage to get close and to get kills

[uneven mist]

deino and Omni pack cera is not supposed to hunt something THAT LARGE, it’s a corpse bully not a punch up animal

[sage yew]

it's not about deino
but slice biting what we have right now is S.U.P.E.R.L.A.M.E.

latch bite is superior to slice bite
it only has to be functional coherent to gameplay

[uneven mist]

The problem I see with that is stuff like carno would just be busted, being able to latch or grab something and being that fast is not balanced at all

[uneven mist]

Allo I don’t see would do well against stego either lol

[sage yew]

depends how you are supposed to land that latch bite
the fight could basically revolve around landing that massive bite

[unreal ridge]

so if a deino and omni pack can kill stego why not a cerato pack? the infectious bite should do it in

[unreal ridge]

allo is supposed to hunt cama in evrima, or at least the devs discussed it

(aside from allo being stegos main predator)

[uneven mist]

It’s bacteria bite is for defensive purposes, not offensive for hunts and WHY should a cera pack hunt stego?

[uneven mist]

Still don’t see them doing well

[unreal ridge]

do we even know what the bacterial bite does?

[uneven mist]

Yeah, I don’t really like that at all, especially for a game like this

[unreal ridge]

whats the point of it being only defensive if cerato is just going to get bullied without any offensive capabilities

[uneven mist]

It was said in the recent devblog

[uneven mist]

It’s mechanic is to bully things off of corpses because that’s what it’s supposed to do, it’s a scavenger bully

[unreal ridge]

none of the corpses its going to be able to find, or at least large corpse are ones it is not going to be able to take

[uneven mist]

How so?

[sage yew]

phasing in and out of opponents is considered to be good?
while you ran pass them to land a bite at full speed? I mean yes, it's still fun... but far away from something that's actually good

[unreal ridge]

if the cerato wants to take a stego body its going to have to fight a omni pack or a deino, which it probably cant fight considering the pack already showed enough skill to take down a stego

[uneven mist]

Fight deino?

[unreal ridge]

how is it supposed to take the body?

without fighting whatever killed the body?

[uneven mist]

It’s supposed to take corpses off if things it’s size, a bit bigger and smaller

Not deino

[tall hearth]

fighting an entire omni pack as a solo cera probably isnt a good idea, thats a bad survival move.

now if the cera was in a pair or trio, it would easy push an omni pack off a body

[unreal ridge]

but that omni pack has already shown the expertise needed to down a stego

[uneven mist]

The reason I don’t want all the carnivores to have it is because I see large balance problems with it, I’d be fine with some like rex or Alberto have it not not all

[unreal ridge]

what makes you think they can't whittle away a cerato

[tall hearth]

its still gonna be able to fight. its just the septic bite is a more defensive ability, its still gonna be able to fight other things to take the corpse. otherwise, it wouldnt be able to do the very thing it was made to do

[sage yew]

why exclude some of this brilliance?!

[uneven mist]

Resistance? That would be a good way to make omni fear cera

[uneven mist]

Why does every carni need it?

[unreal ridge]

resistance to what?

[tall hearth]

a single cerato vs an omni pack is a bad idea. like i said, if there were 2 or more total ceras it would be a lot easier

[sage yew]

slice biting is just breaking physics in every way, like you'd rip out your teeth doing it

[uneven mist]

Bleed, actually. I’d be fine with cera having resistance to mostly everything (except dmg)

[uneven mist]

It’s more balanced that way, like I said why does every carni need it at all?

[unreal ridge]

hold on, i think we've strayed from the point, can I say my original thoughts on cerato?

[uneven mist]

Sure go ahead

[sage yew]

because it's currently balanced for slice biting

[uneven mist]

Yeah? What’s the problem with that? If stuff like carno got a grab or hold then it wouldn’t be fun for every small animal to get grabed my something that’s way faster than them, and what would the grab do? Dot? If so then no thank you

[unreal ridge]

from looking at ceratos concept art, my original thoughts were that it was a jaguar, komodo dragon mix, being some what suited to hunting in and around wetlands, as well as being opportunistic, It would be able to ambush prey from behind like a jaguar and finish them with a clean bite to the back of the brain, or if they couldn't do that, keep the prey down by using the infectious bite to weaken whatever it's attacking

also it is shown in its concept to feed off a rotten stego (probably showing off its diet/and its ability to eat rotten meat) and to be cannibalistic

to summarize, I thought it was a generalist ambush brawler, that specialized in wetlands or jungles

[sage yew]

don't get grabbed than
it's not a "brawler" (so overused this phrasing by me, sry), smaller stuff does not have to be a matchup. There are other aspects that needs to be considered here, like turning rate, acceleration, agility that would have to be adjusted to make latch bite work

it's not like it would be just swapped out

this...
https://youtu.be/V3OCP4jz51s
...is just superior to...
https://youtu.be/vn6g83_qbw0?t=137
...whatever this is supposed to be

[uneven mist]

Some things are correct of what it’s going to be, what was correct was that’s it’s a brawler, scavenger cannibal that has a “septic bite” but it’s septic bite isn’t really for hunting but more for defending corpses or bully things off it (like I said before but I guess you knew it) and I belive it was also said it would have a nasty bite even without the bacteria and killing other cera’s with the bacteria was not an option and would kill each other the old fashioned way. It being an ambusher is up to debate. Everything can be an ambusher but cera doesn’t seem it will specialize in it like allo wil but being more of an endurance/pursuit hunter I’d see it being

[unreal ridge]

yeah that seems fair

[uneven mist]

(Don’t worry I don’t really care if you overuse the word brawler lol) but yeah using their agility is an option too but carno doesn’t really strike to me as an grabber but more a “knock down and Maul/kill animal”

[sage yew]

knock down could be still a viable thing tho

[unreal ridge]

I thought the inclusion of cerato hunting deino, even if its not fully adult to be a nice homage to ceratosaurus' actual speculated diet

[uneven mist]

With it’s new charge it’s really viable, but I think it’s too viable and current destroys tenos with it and I fear for cera when it comes out too so I would reduce its knock down range to 1-1.1 ton and decrease the dmg for charge to 50-100 and maybe buff its bite a little, not much but a fraction

[uneven mist]

It couId hunt juvi deinos that are up on land but they would have to be quick or up far from water because the deino (if it was big enough) would just be able to run away back to water

[unreal ridge]

yeah unfortunately deinosuchus is a tad larger than the crocodiles that ceratosaurus hunted (also deinosuchus is an alligator but we don't talk about that)

[proud coral]

I still yearn for D.rugosus size Deino ;c

[exotic stream]

I had the issue where i was fighting a pachy with my utha. I pounced him 2 times and he was nearly dead and then i just got kicked from the server. This happened 4 or 5 times before. Is this just and Admin that kicks me when he loses a fight or are this hackers? because me connection is always stable and i never have disconnects when playing

[proud coral]

If it's on an unofficial server, it could possibly be an angry admin. On officials though, I think random disconnects are sadly still a thing.

[exotic stream]

no it is on official

[proud coral]

[sage yew]

To be honest? Had the same feeling too xD

[fluid raft]

servers are unstable

[exotic stream]

i never had a disconnect in my 133 hours of playing. server crashes not counted

[uneven mist]

Rugosus our beloved

[proud coral]

https://tenor.com/view/doggy-lizard-reptile-crocodile-cute-funny-gif-26297879

[uneven mist]

Having deino be a mid tier would be cool, and probably couId grow to 6-7 tons when they hit elder but it would be tedious and hard to do so

[feral solstice]

Yes please

[proud coral]

Yep. And it could also help quell the mindset of Deino being this ultimate Rex fighter gator. I know that'll never completely vanish, but think about it; you kinda can't blame a newbie for seeing an 8T monster alligator and thinking "wow this thing can probably fight big stuff!" in before someone tags me explaining how real alligators work

[feral solstice]

Bump Deino down to 4-5 tons and compensate by making it more agile

[proud coral]

Lots agree sub-Deino is more fun anyways.

[feral solstice]

And make 6-7 ton gator challenging

[proud coral]

I might write up a suggestion for it

[uneven mist]

I wouldn’t mind deino being the size it currently is if only it was the most challenging dino to grow but now it’s the easiest and I wonder how difficult it will be when more animals are added

[feral solstice]

I honestly don’t think itd change much tbh

[proud coral]

More animals to prey on Deino will definitely help. But there's definitely more to Deino that needs adjusting.

[uneven mist]

Yeah that’s what I fear

[proud coral]

More predators does not for instance solve things like food growing with you or lunge being so utterly simplistic

[feral solstice]

Young deinos have:

1. good weight

2. Nigh infinite stamina

3. Somehow insane speed on land and are silent

[uneven mist]

Water clarity plz, making deino have to be more stealthy and use the foliage/fauna

[proud coral]

And a water based camera lock

[proud coral]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/423939730544132096/1067241666488041515/SubmarineDive.gif

[uneven mist]

And the waves back

[proud coral]

If you're in water, the camera's in water

Yes better waves ;o;

W a k e s

[feral solstice]

Hell yeah, and compensate with letting Deino only hover it’s face above the water if need be

[proud coral]

Yep! A proper gator-peek

[rancid raptor]

that only happens if the gator has ground to stand on btw, ykr

[proud coral]

https://tenor.com/view/crocodile-hug-cute-float-andréa-abraçar-ana-gif-25713958

[rancid raptor]

the water would need to be shallow enough for the gator to stand upright on ground

what the hell

[proud coral]

Gators are funky

[uneven mist]

I’d want it so if you fast swim you create alot of waves even in deep water, if you are going normal it creates some but not as much and I’d like a z speed for swimming that would be hella slow and create less waves and would be able to only show its head when surfacing

[rancid raptor]

i did not know that was possibl

mb

[proud coral]

[proud coral]

[rancid raptor]

you want waves to form when swimming underwater?

[uneven mist]

With this it would make deino have to be more stealthy and use the foliage to hide or blend in instead of just “let me get close without you seeing me and 1 shot you”

[rancid raptor]

Right, this is an unbelievably bad idea

[proud coral]

It'd also require Deinos to actually sense prey with water sense if we use the camera lock idea instead of just magically peeking through the water

[feral solstice]

^

[uneven mist]

[feral solstice]

Gators don’t just immediately know what’s on the surface. That’s why they sense whatever is in the water or peek their heads above it to actually know

[rancid raptor]

This will never get implemented and hopefully it won't get considered, no offense.
If we make it so land dinos can see deinos through water clarity, and on top of that deinos would make water ripples while getting close swimming underwater - that is just asking for havoc

[feral solstice]

Is Deino life not meant to be hell since it’s closest to an “apex” lol

[rancid raptor]

Gameplay-wise, we will never make it this hard for a deino to sneak up on prey

[feral solstice]

I hope they do

Even devs know it’s a problem, that’s why Deino sense will later on be just for the surface

[uneven mist]

It should be, considering deino has a 1 shot option

[proud coral]

I mean if you're in areas with clear water, you prolly just shouldn't be hunting there. Deino doesn't need to be in every single water source 😛

As for waves in deeper water, I think that's totally fine since that'd only be if you're sprinting.

[rancid raptor]

Deino's RMB will be like a legend, almost never happening considering the fact that you create waves by just swimming underwater, any land dino with eyes will notice and travel away

[proud coral]

*sprint swimming

[feral solstice]

Sprinting under water*

[proud coral]

Waves no matter what would be silly

[feral solstice]

I remember that LOL

[rancid raptor]

Waves would not be silly, gameplay-wise, if they stay the way they are lol

[feral solstice]

That was an update 4 bug and it was hilarious

[rancid raptor]

which is very balanced

[proud coral]

[feral solstice]

Exactly, it would be very balanced if it was a challenge to hunt as one

[rancid raptor]

It's not broken lol, if it was - the devs would have changed it within the 2 years deino has been out now

Lunge should stay as easy as it is right now. If you get lunged, that's your fault. Entirely your fault - and you deserved it

[feral solstice]

What is that logic LOL

[rancid raptor]

To our "surprise"; lunge hasn't been nerfed a single time, wonder why

[feral solstice]

Uh huh. Are you’d denying the devs think it’s a problem when even Punch said water sense isn’t meant to be like this lol

[rancid raptor]

I have a 3week old, very hydrated carno on EU7. Why have I not been lunged? I'm cautious. If you get lunged often, you're bad.

[feral solstice]

Bad logic again

[rancid raptor]

Source to that?

How is it bad logic?

[feral solstice]

My opinion on how it’s bad logic

By your logic, I’m bad if I get killed by a teno, or a carno, or a stego…

It’s hilarious

[rancid raptor]

I'm not talking about water sense. I'm talking about waves while underwater, and water clarity. Never mentioned the sense, you mentioned that - not me

[uneven mist]

@grand folio you know most if not all Dino’s are meant to be fictionalized? I can understand wanting more feathers and those that makes sense to have feathers will have an customizable option to have them. But with the magy talk the same applies to teno too and most Dino’s you know? Teno wasn’t able to use its tail as a weapon, be that large and was basically a bigger dryo

[cyan flame]

Considering how pounce has been a bother, I can see why they'd not done too much with lunge. But the mechanic is dumb as can be, and should be reworked. And if not the lunge reworked, then water sense, clarity of water, quick movement for other playables and similar things should be worked on and adjusted to make it properly difficult to grow and sustain a deino.

[feral solstice]

This community throws around the word “bad” like it’s a running joke

[rancid raptor]

No, by my logic - if you get lunged often, you have a skill issue.

[uneven mist]

What? Deino’s lunge is balanced? That’s a funny word

[proud coral]

I don't see how it's the player's fault that they couldn't see the Deino completely concealed in water giving absolutely no hint to it's existence and being completely unable to move away in time due to acceleration and turning.

[feral solstice]

Ah yes. The supposed balanced lunge is somehow only balanced if you’re lunging a bad player. Makes total sense

[proud coral]

Like lunge is incredibly cheap as an ability.

[rancid raptor]

Player's fault for not being cautious & choosing the right water spot, getting lunged very often - which isn't statistically supposed to happen with good players.

me, nor my friends - or any good player you find in #isle-discussion complain about getting lunged often, because we don't. why is that? caution, perhaps?

[feral solstice]

Or you’re lucky to not find a Deino in the spot you drink

Lmfao

[proud coral]

The right water spot. Where would that be outside of glitched spots if I may ask....

[cyan flame]

Deino lunge is anything but balanced. It's quite a terribly designed mechanic, and needs work. Water sense only working on surface + changing based on size and speed of the target, + the camera lock idea migh be interesting. Water clarity, and various alternatives to only rivers are a given (deinos neither should nor have to hunt everywhere, and should most certainly have bad and good areas to hunt in). Proper counter to the lunge is absolutely needed, since the terrain argument is both bad, boring, and does not make for good engagement for either side.

[rancid raptor]

Water clarity unless it's the damn ocean, or waves whilst sprinting underwater - will never, ever get implemented into evrima and i thank the devs for that.
It will cause havoc gameplay-wise and should not make its way through the patches

[cyan flame]

It really is. But hopefully at some point it gets reworked. At least on Gateway there are better drinking spots, and clearer water, plus lakes! So it's a start!

[rancid raptor]

for 3 weeks, drinking every time my water hits quarter? I don't think so.

[tepid gate]

because countering Deino is all about learning where the safe drinking spot are and then drinking just there completely avoiding any interaction with this thing

[uneven mist]

If you just go to a place where you know no deinos can lunge you then deino wouldn’t be able to hunt things if everything went to those safe places, and having to rely on chance and there being a safe place makes deino a bad design

[icy lion]

Gateway has variations in water clarity

[proud coral]

Water clarity was confirmed by Kissen and is already in Gateway actually

[feral solstice]

If you can’t see a Deino in the river, than you’ll have no idea if there even is one, thus meaning you’re lucky

[uneven mist]

Thank god

[rancid raptor]

The water clarity in gateway, I've seen it. Not anywhere as close as to what they're suggesting should be the case

[feral solstice]

It already is the case. What

[icy lion]

Nothing crystal clear, but some isolated lakes are far more clear than most rivers

[cyan flame]

You know Gateway has water clarity right, plus lakes and stuff. And waves are not impossible at all to implement, we've had similar, and hopefully can get more and better of that, so you need to properly choose good spots and so on.

[proud coral]

Is this another situation of "Deino must be able to hunt in ALL water sources or else it's completely unviable"?

[tepid gate]

it's not balanced at all, it's all about knowing the few spots where Deino can't lunge you, it's the worst designed playable in the game

[feral solstice]

I know

[proud coral]

It's c h e a p

[rancid raptor]

not the same as this

[feral solstice]

Scroll up and you’ll see what I’m replying to lol

[tepid gate]

"it will cause havoc" - read, it will screw Deino over

[cyan flame]

No, not quite.

[rancid raptor]

No, it will screw the game over

[cyan flame]

Well, we are getting variety in water sources, including shallow and clear water and so on.

[feral solstice]

Also I find this hilarious.
“It will never come to the game.”
And what makes you say that?
We already have water clarity on gateway. It’s entirely possible now.

[proud coral]

Also gotta remember migrations are gonna be a thing. You're not gonna just be sitting at one clear water source unless you wanna get weak.

[tepid gate]

yea for Deino, just like shallow water

[proud coral]

[feral solstice]

And water clarity somehow hurting Deino when you can speed boost towards shore and get a short speed boost ON LAND?

Lmfao

[tepid gate]

which would make Deino visible/make it impossible to drown the lunged animals in it

[cyan flame]

Hopefully they add more proper rework to the mechanic of lunge as well as proper counter in the form of quick movement and similar abilities to "cancel" the lunge. That plus water clarity, potential waves or bubbles to "give away" a deino sort of, and similar, and you might actually have to work for your kill as deino.

[rancid raptor]

Either you're overrestimating the clarity, because you're not describing it the same way I've seen it, or the clear waters will be very few in the map - which it will be

[tepid gate]

Screw Deino with its dumb design that stops the devs from doing anything creative with the water in the game because otherwise Deino mains start crying about how the game is unplayable to them

[feral solstice]

“My opinion is a fact” energy

[proud coral]

Even with crystal clear/shallow waters, it'd be fine once there's actual incentives to travel around the map. Currently yeah it'd be bad since you can just camp a single water source.

[cyan flame]

You don't know that. And the clarity looked fine from what I've seen, plus lakes in general. And then eventually spino will come to keep deinos away :p

[feral solstice]

Also water clarity wouldn’t hurt too much if we have actual environmental assets under water 😭

[proud coral]

;_;

[feral solstice]

Even a giant, hollow log would do wonders

[cyan flame]

Just cross the bridge instead of in water :p Though I do hope you can remain in an area, if you're willing to fight for it and all. Being forced to migrate even if you're solo seems terrible to me. Let me find a home to stay in! xD

[uneven mist]

And foliage for deinos to blend in with

[proud coral]

It's been said ye can skip migration, it's just risky is all. Food becomes scarce and you'd really have to fight for it. 😛

[cyan flame]

Honestly, the biggest issue is no lack of proper counter to the deino. Add something so you can "juke" a lunge, plus some kind of "giveaway" that you can notice if you're attentive enough, and we'll get actual skill and timing for the deino.

[proud coral]

I loath the idea of a giveaway, but I do like the idea of being able to hop back if you react fast enough. Problem there though, is how do bigger things do it 😮

A Dryo could easily do it like a deer or something, but a Teno....I can't imagine it being swift enough to move back in time

At least not without looking bizarre

[cyan flame]

They don't need to, just add a turn that "cancels" the lunge. There you go.

[proud coral]

[cyan flame]

Doesn't have to be a full on jump, just some movement +an effect.

[proud coral]

So something kinda like this? (odd example but bear with me)

https://tenor.com/view/friends-matthew-perry-chandler-bing-startle-angry-gif-14988069

[cyan flame]

@proud coralBasically, if you react, the deino lunge fails to apply. So if you "move" in time, given that you notice the deino lunging, it fails to grab on to you. For smaller things, you can get a full jump, for mid, they take a step or two, for larger things, they just kind of turn.

[feral solstice]

Dryo kinda has that already