general-feedback-discussion

[barren zephyr]

Making a dinosaur game like this is hard

[barren zephyr]

People have definitely forgotten

@sullen delta, No, they shouldn't add an unstuck button having more and active admins would fix that problem

and people could abuse it by getting unstuck from cliffs or stuff

[sullen delta]

Yup

Fair

[barren zephyr]

I mean, maybe an option for unofficial servers

[tawdry oyster]

Yea but doesn’t the dust stay on the skin

[warm dust]

That's the obvious answer, but since that's not going away let's level the playing field.

[pulsar smelt]

You know, animals can smell bodies for miles most times irl ? So saying they shouldn't be able to just doesn't seem fair

[drifting rose]

it still takes way way to long to add dinosaurs into the dinosaur game

[barren zephyr]

Have a little bit more patients

Complaining will do you no good

[drifting rose]

its literally been since update 4

[drifting rose]

how much more patients and ik troodons coming in like 4 months but still what then after that another year or so for cera or beipi or one of the other 7 they name dropped?

[sage yew]

how is it supposed to look like? As letting you smell the diets of your prey would basically mean you can smell mostly anything

[barren zephyr]

Dunno, but complaining will do you nothing

you can take a break from the game

[drifting rose]

neither will sitting and doing nothing... its practically the same thing sit and wait for something = sitting and complaining while waiting for something

[barren zephyr]

after 6.5 they said to speed up

[sage yew]

from where do you get your information?
it seems reasonable to assume that active hunters are much more sensitive to scents, like blood. I don't know if penguins have the same sensitivity to it, as sharks. Why should herbivores detect it over great distances in general? Gameplay wise it seems to fit that herbivores have a shorter detection range as well.

[drifting rose]

that doesnt mean that its actually coming

[barren zephyr]

Doesn't mean it's not either

if you wanna complain thats fine, i'm just saying there's no use

[pulsar smelt]

Naive to think only predators have emaculate scent detection.

[sage yew]

adding playables is just trivial. They probably could easily do it, but this would only lead to BoB-Quality-Level. Not to mention the tedium to keep balance in check during EA

[sage yew]

never said that

[drifting rose]

all im saying is we have waited so long alot of us grow tired of waiting for nothin

[sage yew]

just look up the dunning-kruger effect
that development slowed down, is nothing but a misconception

[drifting rose]

@vital plover gateway will fix that we just have to pray its soon

[sage yew]

Just remember, it's a small team developing content that never has been before. Evrima is already miles away from it's competition. Adding new playables wouldn't enhance the gameplay.

At least not without core mechanics in place, because they will provide you with all the content you actually desire, after that are playables mostly just a joke to implement (compared to mechanics development)

[vital plover]

Hopefully, and I hope they won't continue their strategy to erase hot spots in order to spread out players. It just creates a boring map, and players ALWAYS find new hot spots, even when they are not interesting, certain "traditions" always evolve after a while.

[sterile pivot]

Its been 409 days. This is why I play POT way more than TI, we got like 4 or 5 dinos at least in the last year. To have such an unbalanced and vague food chain is very damaging to the game, regardless of mechanics. It might be easier in the end to wait to add dinos and keep adding mechanics, but ultimately it is worth the sacrificed time to maintain your player base and the heart of the game.

[drifting rose]

they wont need to with the migration system we dont have

[sage yew]

mostly because survival mechanics are not entertaining enough, as you have 40 min of downtime, after eating and drinking, so people seek out to socialise and therefore create places of interest

[vital plover]

PvE should be more interesting than just drinking and grabbing some AI

[sage yew]

survival just requires a bare bone minimum of your attention currently

[barren zephyr]

and that's fine

oh nvm, I read that wrong

[feral solstice]

🙂

[barren zephyr]

they already tried that in legacy, id rather take more mechanics then dinosaurs atm

imo

[barren zephyr]

exactly

[sage yew]

https://youtu.be/KrOFpQXuNfY
this is just a ship show of a dumpster fire

have fun playing it

[sterile pivot]

I agree they shouldnt spam create dinos, but look at how POT is providing several new dinos AS WELL AS combat and questing mechanic improvements.(Im just using this as an example, I dont mean to imply TI should copy the way POT is making updates). Legacy produced too many dinos and disregarded mechanics, evrima is doing the opposite. There needs to be a healthy balance. Give 1-2 dinos to keep the food chain everchanging and entertaining, meanwhile you can add new mechanics for improvement

[sage yew]

because they take shortcuts and take already established MMO mechanics to fill up the blank spots of gameplay

[sterile pivot]

Do you mean POT? Or legacy or evrima?

[sage yew]

POT

[sterile pivot]

I see. I think you are missing the point. Regardless of the simplicity or efficency behind the choices, you also have to take into account the community interests and end product desires. While it may be best to leave dinos for last, to maintain a healthy game and entertain playerbase, you need to add dinos with the mechanics, not the mechanics then throw up all the dinos.

[drifting rose]

not reading all that

[sage yew]

POT can surely make fun and provide some good entertainment
but objectivly speaking it's far away of a good game, as it's just a reskinned MMO. Instead of humans you have dinosaurs in this game with rudimentary fighting mechanics

I get your point, I just don't agree on your oppinion, but I understand that people may like it. But more playables will not make any game better and this expectation I really don't understand. Like what do they want to do all day in this game

[tall hearth]

Its literally important but ok

[sage yew]

dude, brake it down for us, we are lazy!

[tall hearth]

Tldr they dont wanna add unfinished playables because then if they go back and try to finish them, it may literally be impossible due to game development

Maybe read it tho

[sage yew]

and people can get used to broken or unfinished mechanics and will start a shitstorm when they're taking it away from them, as they are made how it was actually intended

[tall hearth]

I suggest reading it to get the full idea of what kissen is talking about when people go "just add more playables"

[barren zephyr]

its why I saved that screenshot to counter the "just add more playables" argument, its very important to have a foundation to a game

just adding more playables without a foundation wont enhance the game at all

[tall hearth]

I'm gonna use it to its fullest extent lol. I'm sure dozens of people will too

[sage yew]

I'd just suggest them to play PoT or BoB, if that's what they want anyway

[sterile pivot]

Why do you keep ignoring my whole point? I will repeat it again in a different way:
The food chain of a game is a mechanic just as or even more important than the other mechanics in the game. Sure, it may be more difficult to update dinos if you dont have mechanics added, but currently, the mechanism of the food chain is extremely unhealthy and the balance changes are only making it worse. For instance, there are already what like 9 playables they have to go back and update. By adding a strong mid tier carni and making readjusting playable only 10% slower you get:
-People who want new dinosours are happy
-Stegos arent completely dominant of land
-A dino that doesnt get drowned by dieno so those people are happy
-Carno has some form of solo competition
-Something to keep mixpacking and megapacking in check(But cant abuse it in turn due to speed)
You are essentially giving a dying food chain life support, and by adding 1 dino you are ensuring you DONT HAVE TO ADD any more dinos till ALL the mechanics are implemented.
Basically add 1 playable so you dont have to add many playables, add 1 playable so you dont have people complaining, add 1 playable to improve existing mechanics(food chain, ecosystem, etc mechanics).
Id recommend this dino be allo or cera. We already have cera models so that could be fairly easy compared ot others

Because everyone keeps seeming to misunderstand here are the things I specifically dont mean and think this would help: This would prevent "just add more playables" by adding only one playable
By adding 1 playable now "Mechanics can come first, where all mechanics can be added before implementing more dinos"
People would "Have a little more patients", for they get content they are hoping for
This wouldnt "Slow the devs down on the goals they have set" for we already have several models, as well as preventing the need to put work into balancing the game further

[sage yew]

you are not wrong
but you are asking for the game to be finished and that process can't be speed up. If you would force them to release all the playables they currently have, you would only get reskinned versions of what already is in the game

and actually, who cares - sorry if that's rude ...bc it mostly is - the game is in development, in a testing and experimenting phase and for that purpose are the current numbers of 7+2 well enough

[sterile pivot]

How? How did you just read that and think I said: Finish the game. Add all playables. Did you not read where I literally said add 1 <-- ONE as in a single, singular dino? Add a SINGLE dino, then continue adding all the mechanics and dont add anymore dinos until they are done.

[sage yew]

and if you have 8+2 or 10+2, there is no difference, as people would be still asking for more, to establishe an eco system

but that's not possible, unless you go for it all

[barren zephyr]

If you don't wanna read it all then what's the point in arguing?

[tall hearth]

Troodon is coming in 6.5, beipi, cerato and galli are pretty much confirmed to come sometime shortly after. More playables are on the way.

[sterile pivot]

As long as we get cerato I believe we are fine. We just need a dino that fits the niche that the game is requiring rn. The longer it waits the worse it gets

[sage yew]

give them few month and they will come back with the same argument, why they don't ad more
"buhu, 3 new playables, how long do we have to wait for more?"

[tall hearth]

My favorite complaint is they arent "real dinos" and they just want the big guys like rex or allo lol

[sage yew]

the game requires waaaaay more than just that

[sterile pivot]

Very true. But if your ecosystem of the game is dying, you gotta pick and choose what is most important. Seeing the majority of issues people share about balances/ecosystem, id say that adding a tanky mid tier carni is most helpful to said ecosystem. We dont need a rex or spino or whatnot, nor do we need a a small tier like velo or troodon, we need a balancer.

[sage yew]

there is no eco system
at best can the Isle currently provide an battle royal arena for PvP and nothing else, beside of being a chatroom

[urban flax]

Every dino added is a "balancer" as you say
They're part of an ecosystem, not a battle royale

[sage yew]

and what will balance the "balancer"?

[urban flax]

Currently stego is an apex, so what ? It will remain so anyways. Eventually trike or shant might take its place as the unkillable herbi, but then what ? Would the game be more balanced ?
It would, but not because there is something stronger. It would because there would be more things to play as, more variety.

Nobody was complaining the game was unbalanced when there was only utahs and tenos, although there was nothing a utah could kill 1v1

[sterile pivot]

The balancer is already balanced. A slower dino that can hunt ai, stegs, and babies, and dead animals. They would be strong enough to take on stegos with the appropriate numbers(like a utah to a teno), and could hold their own against carnos and utahs. They would not be grabbed up by dienos or savaged by pachys. They couldnt outrun utahs, carnos, tenos, pachys, etc, but couldnt be murked by them either. They would be able to outrun dienos or stegs but couldnt take them on without a large pack.

[urban flax]

You think cera will kill stegos ?

[obsidian jetty]

honestly...I kinda think you overestimate the cerato tbh. The cera wouldn't do...most of the things you've claimed it would. It's way below 4t, so a deino can drown it, I don't really see it challenging a stego either (most definitely not solo) and with the current broken carno it wouldn't be competition for that one either, because the carno we have now would probably just mop the floor with the cerato...it's kinda small...

[urban flax]

Cera having merely a slight chance to win against a carno would already be good and make it a strong animal

[sage yew]

cerato would be a reskinned carno without it's ram
how is this supposed to fix anything...

[sterile pivot]

Doesnt have to be cerato? As I already said a tanky mid tier?

[urban flax]

I can see a group of allos or, most likely, albertos, being able to kill a stego
But not really anything else, apart from apexes

[sage yew]

what this game needs to do (imo) is to add all the small stuff
why? because if they're able to provide a good gaming experience with small critters, they probably have a somewhat good game

if this game only benefits from adding bigger and bigger dinos, for "balance", it will all fall apart at some point

[urban flax]

Yep
Small dinos are important because they are in the same tier as humans
So they need to be done well and be appealing in order to make the human experience interesting

[sterile pivot]

Considering how dryo was left in the ground and hypsi is only used to troll ot transport resources I dont know why beipi, troodon, or other small dinos are being added.

[urban flax]

They're a proof of what happens when you rush a new dino and leave it unfinished

[pulsar smelt]

Because they chose small dinos to debut new mechanics instead of mid tiers.

Which was a poor idea

[obsidian jetty]

the issue with the Dryo is that it precisely is not "in the ground"...the burrowing mechanic is missing xD

[pulsar smelt]

Lol true

[sterile pivot]

Yeah lol.

[sage yew]

because this game currently lacks mechanics
that's why people want bigger and bigger dinos, because the game currently fails at providing a good gaming experience

but by adding small critters first, they are basically forced to put a bigger emphasis on core mechanics that actually will provide the content

big dinos = easy fun
small critters = mechanics and content

at least that's my expectation

[sterile pivot]

Thats now how it works. We have big munchers(Stego/dieno), we have small critters(Dryo/hypsi/utah/ptera), both small and big dinos alike have lower usage rates(beyond utah) than carno , teno, and pachy, which all 3 have the most entertaining and free gaming experiences. Thats because small dinos and big dinos can only be fun off of SPECIFIC mechanics, while mid tier dinos can be fun off of mid tier mechanics AND both small tier and apex tier mechanics, getting a taste of nearly every mechanic in the game.

[sage yew]

dryo, hypsi, beipi and trodon simply fail at the current "battle royal" state, in which the game is right now

that's nothing you can fix by adding new dinos

[rancid raptor]

@blissful ravine unstuck button can lead to numerous different types of problems, exploits

[blissful ravine]

what kind of exploits?

[sterile pivot]

Except thats not true. When it comes to "battle royal", like legacy was, then the apexs should be the most used and abused dinos in it. But thats not the case.
I dont see how you miss the fact that the roles, ecosystem, and food chain that dinos are in are mechanics in themselves, and adding 1 or 2 dinos to make those mechanics functional is important when paired with all the other mechanics that are going to be added.

[sage yew]

because there is no food chain
you don't even need to survive anything (beside of PvP)

you're just inviting another fighter into the match, nothing else

[sterile pivot]

I suppose so.

I guess your right, it just feels empty sometimes. It feels like there are things missing, or that gameplay gets boring

[sage yew]

my point is: if they can't make stuff like hipsy interesting, they will also fail in making a T-rex interesting

[sage yew]

and here I totally agree

all the fun you can currently gain, is the fun that you are making yourself

and bored people will do weird stuff to gain their entertainment, which makes the "eco system" even more broken

[rancid raptor]

try to guess

[sage yew]

like utahs teaming up with carnos, as it's the new meta right now

[blissful ravine]

Try to explain

[sage yew]

ha! fair.

[sterile pivot]

Yeah...
Personally I am hopeful for nesting grounds mechanics. I think that nesting grounds have a lot of potential for the entertainment of different species, and while I think there is no existing food chain or ecosystem as you said, I think that some small form of ecosystem could be made by making nesting grounds more activie/interesting. Carnivores playing in forms of ambush or simply charing in, hypsis and dryos protected by tenos and stegos while they nest, or grabbing food and surveying the land for predators, and making burrow communities.

[rancid raptor]

I'm sure you can use your common sense, no offense, to realize that "unstuck button" can lead to greater exploit possibilities.

Instead of having a ridiculous "Unstuck button"; we should rather have more admins throughout the servers, more available admins. That's way better than a button which could essentially lead to many problems

[blissful ravine]

I do but I want YOU to explain.

[sterile pivot]

Yesterday at like 11pm on my pachy I ran into a megapack of mixpackers, led by a pachy who is a KOS. Stormed out of that place as quick as I could lol
First time I actually have witnessed mixpacking on officals which is a suprise, typically people are too busy KOsing to team up

[rancid raptor]

I refuse to explain something I know you know, we're both well aware that an unstuck button leads to problems

[sage yew]

you are right, but sadly this to develop just takes time and for a small studio even more. And the sad truth is, that mostly all others that tried to develop inside this genre failed miserably or they took development shortcuts and went into basebuilding or MMO or other directions

[blissful ravine]

well then don't start a discussion if you refuse to take part in it

[sage yew]

Open World Survival is a dumpsterfire of development nightmare

[sterile pivot]

Yeah. I mean, ill be honest, looking at the deveolpment we have been getting it seems very slow, and the concept art is like salt on a wound after all the promises/predictions we have been given. Though at the same time its very difficult to get the mechanics and dinos right.

[sage yew]

because all the development goes under the hood, it feels this slow, because it's hard to make out the actual progression and the broken balancing right now makes it even harder, while there are a lot of improvements

at first it was easy to make a good ground work, but now they need to tackle the heavy bits of it

1. legacy
2. evrima
3. u6
   and hopefully we will will come close to 4. or 5. the next update

(not based on any facts, just on how interpret the current progression - mostly from the experience of my own work)

[sterile pivot]

Sounds about right. Just out of interest, what work do you do?

[barren zephyr]

@bold rapids really like this idea as i can never remember which servers my dinos are on xD

[sage yew]

I prefer rather not to share personal information

[sterile pivot]

All good, sorry

[solar ether]

Anyone else feel like the devs need a new project manager? Idk if they have one but some basic business education and time management skills would benefit everyone.

[tall hearth]

They've said they're aiming for mechanics before dinos, plus it may help if you read this

[sage yew]

xDDDDDD

this will probably won't get old for a loooong time

[tall hearth]

Hey I'm having fun posting it lol

[proud coral]

New dinos are great and all, but a b i g problem the game has always had is relying on them to be interesting.....because there's nothing else. Like you eat, drink, fight.....then what? There's no goal. No real sense of progression or reason to stay healthy and survive. It's just a crappy deathmatch.

New dinos really do help a lot, but we also need an actual gameplay loop more.

And yes I know nesting exists, and look at how much it changed the game Was added too early honestly.

[sage yew]

gameplay wise indeed, but stuff like this provides data and feedback on how people will interact with it and what they expect

that's probably also the reason why we got 1 aquatic and 1 flyer into the mix

[crisp hamlet]

I think it would have been fine if it was implemented with desires to actually use it, or connect it to other mechanics/features within the game. The modeling of the nesting ground could have been way way way better too(Triangular rocks and lined textures)
Edit: I was thining of nesting grounds oops, but the incentivizing still applies

[proud coral]

Yeah, perk inheritance as well as a better map design (both future things) would've helped a lot ;o;

[crisp hamlet]

Yeah...

[proud coral]

[sage yew]

even though perks are somewhat of a "shortcut" to provide content and I'd prefer a more organic approach, but considering development time I must admit I'm not against it right now 🤔

[sage yew]

how about this, let's make an addendum to the server rules

Devs:
We have developed countless of new playables and we will keep them for ourself until we get bored of them and we might consider it making them available for the public.

All in capital letters, in bold and underlined.

[burnt bone]

Aye, that’s on of my fav pictures I took of gateway, that mountain is perfect for pictures like that.

[sage yew]

uhh~ it actually renders in distance

[burnt bone]

Also, don’t tell me you actually believe “7 Dinos are ready but aren’t being released for… reasons”

[icy lion]

Huh?

[sage yew]

some.... many.... seem to think exactly this, why not just go for it

[icy lion]

No please I have to correct it enough as is

[north quiver]

because they’d lose a lot of people by doing that. I’d personally delete the game. I along with plenty of other people didn’t buy the game for… that to happen

[uneven mist]

[icy lion]

This is exactly what I mean

[sage yew]

sometimes, if you want to raise awareness, you have to do the exact opposite of what you ware doing before

[north quiver]

I can’t express how bad on so many levels the effects of that would be just to make a point to what seems to be a very small minority

[sage yew]

minority or not, some already tried to convince me of that
see, as an example, if you try to start a talk about safer s*x, no one
would care, but announce that protection is totally overrated and
you have hundreds of people suddenly discussing the actual
importance of it. Tested it, it works.

And assuming there are 2 types of people, that actually believe in
devs holding back playables and those who don't. Well, a part of the
crowd is already thinking this anyway and those who are knowing it
better would have a chuckle at best.

Like some dev - forgot the name of the game - wrote into the patch
notes:
added new bugs for later fixes

people are not so duff that they are going to abandon the ship, while
it's still sitting in a dry dock.

but actually never mind, it was something meant for my amusement
on this topic.

@fallow sealheat management, yes yes :D

[fallow seal]

yeah yeah, like with nests and stuff but for your dino

[sage yew]

I see it mostly another dimension on how to interact with the world, with
different impacts on different species. For example nocturnal predators
could be prone to overheating during the day, putting them into a more
passive playstile or shifting their realm into the shadows of the woods and
swamps.

Stegos could get the ability to cool them self down during critical moments
by using their plates. Glowing bloody red in the sun. Extending for a short
duration their abilities.

Crocs would prefer staying near the water during the day, as excessive
stamina use further out could lead to overheating but at night they gain
extended range to roam further inland to traverse from different river
systems.

Others could have resistance to heat, but would become more vulnerable
during the night.

Heat management, as an "excuse" for shifts in gameplay, with different
abilities or drawbacks that can play into your advantage or work against you.

Day and Night cycle would become more meaningful, beside of "now it's
bright" and "now it's dark".

Adaptation is an interesting aspect of survival games and shifting the
themes would bring in more dynamics into the gameplay with many
possibilities for the player to interact with the world in different ways.

[azure lance]

why havent there been any roadmap updates in like 4 months????????????

[sage yew]

because devs are in an development phase, where they can't promise all features they are currently working on, as the outcome is currently uncertain

no facts, just my thoughts

[azure lance]

thanks

[summer thistle]

I should’ve included this image for reason on that post

Really the feature is pointless

[sage yew]

#general-feedback message

#general-feedback-discussion message

I have written my thoughts down related to your topic

[summer thistle]

It really doesn’t matter though

They should add game mechanics that are fun, this mechanic is not fun

[sage yew]

that's okay, just thought you might be interested

[summer thistle]

I mean I don’t disagree with your suggestion

[sage yew]

oh, didn't meant to direct you to the suggestion

#general-feedback-discussion message

it should have been this from the discussion, but nvm

[rare fractal]

Fixed vision during these actions is already so incredibly stupid gameplay wise

[summer thistle]

Yeah

They need at least a little bit of player freedom

[sage yew]

from which point of view? When I approach you from behind, I have a good visual feedback on how you're paying attention and it works great

[limber hull]

I personally like locked vision

[summer thistle]

I don’t

[rare fractal]

Why, it adds a random arbitrary gamble to performing these actions

It's a skill devoid period of time where you're easier to kill for...reasons

[summer thistle]

It’s my least favourite mechanic in the game by a long shot

[sage yew]

well, but it fits the theme of a survival game and emphasise the danger of eating in the open

[fallow seal]

@summer thistle i agree, i think for predators it would make them plan out where they come up from behind instead of it being too easy

[rare fractal]

Like it doesn't even make the game harder, it just adds more random probability to you getting ambushed regardless of how good attention you're paying

[rare fractal]

Spending irl years growing a single animal fits the theme of survival, that's still a terrible idea

[sage yew]

or just stop eating after a bite, take a look around and keep eating if it's safe

without the lock, you had 360° of freedom, while your character gave no visual feedback to others

[rare fractal]

Wouldn't a random chance of being struck by lightning or contracting cancer also fit the theme of survival?

[summer thistle]

The feature doesn’t allow you to out skill your opponent

I don’t mean fight

[sage yew]

oh common, not that lightning debate again

[summer thistle]

I mean escape

[rare fractal]

Why must this event exist in the first place

[limber hull]

My least fave mechanic ever added to this game is dino AI. I like the horror/element of care when eating. Having lookouts, taking breaks to observe your surroundings and so on are far more interesting actions than “eat, done”

[sage yew]

visual feedback

[rare fractal]

It's still relevant....

[rare fractal]

What does that mean

[sage yew]

no it's not as it's a completely different story, it just undermines every other opinion

[summer thistle]

Most people don’t have enough people for look out to be a viable strategy

[rare fractal]

No it doesn't, it only debunks the logic of adding a mechanic simply because it's fitting in a survival setting, this is a game, more justification is necessary

[sage yew]

you eat = you don't pay attantion to me when I come from behind

visual feedback

[limber hull]

I don’t think that’s visual feedback by definition

[sage yew]

nothing is debunked, you just don't like it, thats a whole different thing

[rare fractal]

So have the animals heads turn instead of locking cams

[summer thistle]

https://tenor.com/view/look-you-see-there-you-go-youre-welcome-my-point-gif-14559946

[north quiver]

I agree with this

[rare fractal]

You used the justification of it fitting the theme of survival as a means to justify the mechanic, bringing up examples like lightning and random terminal illness or disabilities from birth ALSO fit the theme of survival but are terrible ideas....that is a textbook example of debunking a standard

[sage yew]

360° vision is simply a comfort feature you are unwilling to lose

[rare fractal]

A lack of hereditary terminal illnesses is a comfort feature you are simply unwilling to lose

[sage yew]

that are some weird claims you are dropping there

[sage yew]

no one was talking about terminal illnesses ...dude, calm down

[summer thistle]

I don’t care about all this realism stuff and blah blah blah

All that matters is that it’s fun

[rare fractal]

I don't know how I could make the parallels any clearer...I really don't

[summer thistle]

Camera lock is not fun

[limber hull]

I legitimately find the locked cam more fun so

[summer thistle]

Leave realism for path of titans

[limber hull]

Lmao, realism in PoT

[sage yew]

good one xD

[rare fractal]

To me it's analogous to a less oppressive form of deino lunge...like I see literally no value in it

[summer thistle]

I don’t know

Never played

[limber hull]

I don’t see how these are parallels but sure

[sage yew]

you can't bring up terminal illnesses every time the game gains some aspects of realism

[summer thistle]

I always hear people use realism as excuses for bad features in that game

The other excuse I shall not say for it is a sin

[rare fractal]

Both introduce a randomized skill devoid chance of receiving fatal consequence during mundane actions, one of them is just longer than the other

[rare fractal]

I can when the argument for adding said features is on the basis of realism instead of some greater gameplay function

[north quiver]

camera lock is definitely not fun for the majority of players. why?
-silent carnos
-silent deinos running out of nowhere to snatch you up
as it stands now, its a needless nerf that doesn’t really make much sense
it’d be FAR more bearable if you could actually hear a 6 ton creature running up on you

[summer thistle]

It’s also just visually painful not being able to move your camera

[rare fractal]

I'd be almost fine with camera lock if you could hear a carno running from a couple hundred feet away, but you can't

[north quiver]

fr

[sage yew]

and it allows you to pay more attantion to your surrounding, as packing or herding animals can look at others to determine if it's safe or not and when suddenly someone starts to run, they all start to run

it's really fun as a omni, like scared chickens and when the panic wears of they're all eating again

[limber hull]

If the audio wasn’t dookie atm, this wouldn’t be as big a problem

[sage yew]

agree

[summer thistle]

Also the fact they spent time on the feature instead of a couple things called, migration, scars, and sensible balance changes

[feral solstice]

Just make it dynamic

[north quiver]

yep. and this is why I personally feel like it needs to be removed until they fix the audio

[limber hull]

I don’t think the camera lock would’ve taken up as much time as migrations lol

[feral solstice]

As long as your camera is facing the body/water, you’ll continue to eat/drink, but looking away causes you to stop

[summer thistle]

Still it doesn’t need to exist

It shouldn’t exist

[sage yew]

this doesn't sound bad either

[summer thistle]

Sounds better

[rare fractal]

It mechanically forces you to pay less attention, you can't pay attention to animals you both can't see or hear residing in the 70% of the approach angles during eating and drinking you aren't able to see....

And again I'm baffled you find your eating and drinking sessions having a random chance of killing outside of your attentiveness more fun than if you could just..actually pay attention

[rare fractal]

Literally all I want...

[feral solstice]

So you’re allowed to observe your surroundings, but at the cost of not eating/drinking until you point your camera back to the interaction

[sage yew]

see the current camera lock just as the first itteration, it can change in many ways ;)

[rare fractal]

Well...at that point it wouldn't be camera lock at all

[sage yew]

just eat from different directions?

[feral solstice]

Kinda tedious lol

[summer thistle]

The current camera lock also locks you in position a lot so even if you see a deino running at you from 50 meters away by the time you’re able to run it’s lunged you

[rare fractal]

Yes lemme dance around the body I'm eating to cover all angles instead of just turning my neck

[summer thistle]

The current camera lock is still garbage

[sage yew]

you can still do it, simply stop eating, like wtf

[sterile pivot]

As I watch this conversation unfold I just think about how I grab bites off a body instead of eat from it anyways or plants in the case of herbies 😄

Press g, eat and while you eat look around, then repeat. Nice and easy.

[rare fractal]

But why do we even have this asinine mechanic in the first place...it's not even a realism mechanic it completely ignores the ability to...turn your head...and or see with your peripherals on top of most of our dinos lacking binocular vision

[compact flare]

Camera lock is an L decision and I’m flabbergasted a majority of the community is okay with this change

[summer thistle]

Because you always get stuck in the animation for me

[compact flare]

what does it bring?

[sage yew]

is it a discussion about the bad itteration, or the mechanic itself as it shouldn't be mixed up

as I totally agree that it need improvement

[compact flare]

like if you’re going to have camera lock in the game, at least make your dinosaur not blind the moment it wants to eat or drink

[sterile pivot]

Yeah it was a very bad choice, if it was realistic the dino would be turning its head to get good pull on the meat its eating, or as a herbie just wandering its head around as it chews.

[north quiver]

I do feel like a minute should be taken to make a quick poll to see what the majority of players think about something before they work on it. an example would be nerfs and buffs. e.g:
“Should carno get a buff to its ram damage?”
Another:
“Should utah get a bleed nerf?”
reactions can be thumbs up or thumbs down to gauge where everyone is at on the topic

[sterile pivot]

Like I think instead of removing it they should improve the animation so that it looks around as it eats

[rare fractal]

The entire reason dinos have 3rd person cams is because:
A: It'd be really lame not to see your dino in it's entirety.
B: As justified in universe, the enhanced senses of the dinosaurs being transmitted to a player POV is a 3rd person camera...
Locked cams just say....lol no

[sterile pivot]

Have the devs ever let the community makes choices on the game? Being genuine here as I have never seen them ask about features/etc

[sterile pivot]

Exactly lol....and there is no positives, it breaks the realism only to limit the player and to be irritating

[north quiver]

not as far as I’m aware. that’s why I’d like polls so they’d let the players know that they’re at least acknowledging their input

[rare fractal]

Tbf I certainly wouldn't...otherwise omni would flop in between being grossly overpowered or grossly underpowered each update..which is exactly what's been happening since it's inception...they just need a better balancing team

[sterile pivot]

Yeah 100%

[sage yew]

the 3rd person is probably a place holder, as it's easier to lock all cameras to the center of the 3D modell, instead fixing it to the actual head

and your comment just amplifies that devs had a different vision on this topic

[rare fractal]

I was quoting the devs on that...that's why dinos have 3rd person cams...

Also my entire point is that their visions for...well...vision...are contradictory
The latter implementation of which harms immersion and gameplay

[sage yew]

all I read from you, that you hate the limitation, while a good game design is all about limitation

[limber hull]

So many balance changes have been made according to the community’s complaints (a system I find caused more harm than good)

[summer thistle]

Minecraft is the most popular video game ever, look at it

[rare fractal]

Yes I despise the limitation....but I agree that game design as a craft is about choosing which limitations to apply to players...that doesn't mean "Add all possible limitations to players simply to add limitations"

[summer thistle]

No limits

[rare fractal]

No minecraft has limits...

I wouldn't dilute that term

[summer thistle]

We’ll mostly limitless

[rare fractal]

It just has few limits comparatively

[sage yew]

so many changes, but you read the complains about no changes being made - like earlier that day

[summer thistle]

And while I agree this game should have quite a few limitations, right now is to much

[sterile pivot]

If your making a gaem of survival it should be very free...People play games to escape the limitations of their life, not to be set into even more.

[summer thistle]

The camera lock is

[sage yew]

DayZ has the same mechanic, as you can't look around while looting a body, this is really not so uncommon in survival games

[sterile pivot]

The camera lock adds no positives:
Irritating
Adds nothing
Isnt realistic
Ruins time spent growing
Isnt horror whatsoever

[summer thistle]

But FUN

[rare fractal]

Well something difficult about listening to player criticism for balance is that....they're your playerbase, they'd be the ones to communicate to you if the game is hell to play...but at the same time their ideas for fixing the present issues may be awful...so at that point it's down to whatever balancing team or individual controlling balance to address the issues in the best way possible...which this game tends to not do

[summer thistle]

Fun is priority

[sage yew]

Eating = danger
danger = fun

devs done well in my opinion
still to be improved, but I like it

that being said, I leave that "I hate that" discussion

[rare fractal]

Ok, so how by virtue of it existing in another game does it become an amazing mechanic...I've never played DayZ, I don't know if that implementation is good or not, so functionally it doesn't matter to me at all

[limber hull]

Like, I like the idea of the new carno charge, the better body fracture and the more endurance-style omni pounce, but these good changes are offset by how stupid some other elements of these animals are

[sterile pivot]

Having tons of cliffs you cant see are dangerous. Dangerous is fun. So lets get rid of fields and lets make the whole map a ton of cliffs covered in bushes so you have no idea where they are. Now the game is fun because its dangerous!

[summer thistle]

Not fun like the way it is

[sage yew]

that's not what I've meant, but sure, go for it ;)

[summer thistle]

It’s just annoying

[rare fractal]

Mhm, mostly down to just a lack of systems in place to advantage animals over others, this isn't down to adjusting numbers you need to add features, like pachy's CC threshold or numerical limit being tied to fractures on large animals...just for instance...you can't just buff or nerf pachy's damage because that doesn't address the issue of it being an infinitely bashing invulnerable 1v1 god

[sterile pivot]

Its the same....Dying to a invisible cliff is annoying, and so is dying due to an uncontrollable unforeseeable mechanic.

[limber hull]

I just think fractures should stagger and pachy’s ram can’t stagger targets bigger than twice it’s size

[rare fractal]

Would solve a lot

[summer thistle]

https://tenor.com/view/squidward-register-banging-head-cash-gif-5462519

[kindred minnow]

I love Evrima dearly, but we absolutely need to pause development on eating, courting, and all the other silly stuff in favor of a funcitonal lobby. How can we expect to have a awesome game if we cant even reliably enter into an official server?

My biggest suggestion would be that you iron out the wrinkles so that you know which official servers you have saved games on, ideally it would give you details about what dino it is, and then I should be able to express my desire to enter the server 1 time and wait. I shouldnt have to look at servers broken for weeks that are somehow full but have 95-98 out of 100 players on them. It would be preferably to be able to move dino's between servers too honestly. I would settle for a funcitonal lobby.

[sterile pivot]

That would be amazing. Theres also the part where offical servers dont show up. Ive spent several minutes simply spamming reload just for a na server to pop up.(In the longest case I was lf na4, but it wouldnt show up, along with na6 and na 1 occasionally). It makes it even ahrder to enter servers too that are full, since while you spam reload waiting for the number to drop you also have to hope it wont keep dissapearing.

[left nacelle]

@blissful latch I assume you're suggesting keyboard users should have a freelook button? If so, that's already in the game

[blissful latch]

I'm not dw I'm talking about gamepad stuff, a full button is used for freelook when we don't need it, we need alt attacks cuz currently we just can't do them at all

[left nacelle]

Oooh gotcha. You can't do alt attacks if you hold the freelook button and press the attack button tho? You'd think that would work

[blissful latch]

Unfortunately not

That's what I'd love to have, we literally have nothing

[left nacelle]

Huh, that's odd

[blissful latch]

(Also I'm obsessed with Beipi too)

[left nacelle]

Based

[blissful latch]

I'm gonna keep checking every time I play just in case it's on my end but even in control settings secondary attack isn't listed as an option

[left nacelle]

Well I don't think the alt attack has it's own set button. Like i think if i were to change the freelook button, that would also become my alt attack button (I use mouse and keyboard)

But the game currently isn't made with gamepad support in mind, but I believe that's something they'll be working on in the future since I think Kissen said she likes to play with a controller too

[blissful latch]

I was pleasantly surprised it functions as well as it does, most games put far less into controller support

we essentially just need secondary attacks

we can't grab but using the keyboard to tap g is easy. We can't even use keyboard alt

[frigid sonnet]

Any body know anything about the spino remodel and when it’s happening

[blissful latch]

an eta? don't know her

[icy lion]

Spino remodel?

[limber hull]

spino remodel will be whenever spino comes out

[frigid sonnet]

Oh 😆

[pulsar lake]

#general-feedback message
Dinosaurs aren’t cold-blooded. It would make sense for deino and megalania, though.

[frosty thunder]

Why would something that apart of a update not be first concern?

[limber hull]

Nesting was the first concern, not nesting grounds. Spiro was already in the process of being replaced, and making extremely high quality nesting grounds would be a distraction from the new map, especially since Spiro is planned to get dumpstered soon when Gateway arrives, at least until they rework it. It'd also be really difficult to add any good nesting grounds on the nightmare map that is Spiro

Doesn't make much sense to distract your level designer from the map that's planned to replace the current one by making them make highly indepth stuff on the old map, only for his other work to completely make it irrelevant

[sterile pivot]

Yeah, would have been smart just to make one map for the recode, not a early map then a later one. Or a complete early one that actually is refined and then add more maps once you complete all the mechanics/add all the dinos

[limber hull]

they couldnt do that tho

[sterile pivot]

Oh, how come?

[limber hull]

issue is that the current map we had wasnt made by a level designer

its full of flaws, as would be any map

[sterile pivot]

Gotchya

[limber hull]

they had no level designer until recently

so he's going to make a proper, quality map for us to play in

[sterile pivot]

I see. No more foilage-covered cliffs then : D

[limber hull]

i played on gateway, those still exist. Not everywhere tho

[frosty thunder]

But again the issue is, why charge, move stuff around if you just gonna trash the map? Why not just said f it and just work on getting the new maps out?

[limber hull]

That's what they've been doing

Hence the very rushed nesting grounds

Making a new map is no easy task

Especially one like Gateway

Gateway has work from environmental designers, level designers, a TON of human structures and more

[frosty thunder]

Ok do you A- edit a map your gonna trash or B tell your community your not making any changes to the current map, because you want to completely focus on the new maps .

[limber hull]

They added nesting grounds because otherwise how can they get data on how they work?

better making a low-effort nesting grounds that completes the task, rather than just not do them

[proven river]

Lucky bugger

@oblique creek while I agree mixpackers and whatnot are absolute scum, rules enforced by humans would be constantly and easily abused, nobody has proof and anyone could twist blame around to other players, some players wouldnt know the rules or forget about them. These things should be enforced by the game itself not human admins because they could also have a bias for example.

[sterile pivot]

Came here to pretty much say this^
While I agree with how bad what people do is ivan having people spend their day looking out for it isnt the right solution. Most those issues cant be solved easily or benefically

[oblique creek]

I agree with you there. The game enforcing these rules would be much better. It would require some thought I obviously haven't put into it I guess lol

[proven river]

It's cool bro, and understandable, some people absolutely ruin the game for others

[blissful latch]

The downside I could see for the megapack icon is defining a megapack. Like Troodon and Omni are supposed to be in relatively big packs. Troodon arguably much more so. Would it be a different number per dino species that would make them a megapack/herd?

It would heck Troodon over to not be able to sneak and swarm someone with the icon there

[tawdry oyster]

I think the problem people have is not that they’re not adding more playables, but the amount of time they take to release an update where the only new mechanic is organs.

I mean, when did they release Update 5?

But I do get that they are working on a new map so yeah.

[limber hull]

there were more mechanics than just that but

[radiant dagger]

At this Moment in the gore update i dont find the new map.
Where i can play that map?

[tawdry oyster]

Its not out

[burnt bone]

Megapack is anything over the pack limit. So like 8 pachies or 5 stegos is fine, but 9 pachies or 6 stegos would be a megapack.

[sage yew]

how does megapack gets triggered exactly?

[blissful latch]

Hypsi limit is 50

[burnt bone]

I don’t think the megapack scent gets triggered currently. I haven’t seen it At all lately, even with hordes of 8 deinos

[sage yew]

I know that. But how did it worked before?

[burnt bone]

Iirc like I said above, plus if you had multiple species together. Like I saw 3 pachies and a stego trigger the scent.

I’m still hoping for my mix/megapack scent rework to be considered

[sage yew]

I'm mostly interested in it, because that's something you don't have much control over it, but people ware accepting it - and you know how some like to hate stuff they don't have control over

like we had often that talk about proximity related consequences

[burnt bone]

Well, here’s the thing. Unlike proximity debuffs, all it would do is give your rough location. If you got close to try and find them, you would be considered part of the pack and stop smelling it.

Plus it can’t be abused much more than calls could lol. If a Omni could follow a steg and make it smell, it could also sit by and spam 1 call.

[sage yew]

that's the thing, it is a proximity debuff
basically a debuff on your stealth ability

and on paper it sounds not so bad
but when you, as in a group of 8 omnis, encounter a group of 3 stegos and 2 whatever ...it will be considered as "mega/mixpack" ....at some point, as I don't know exactly what is needed for that

I think, that people are okay with it, because they won't get notified about what is happening to them. That's why the perception about it is so well.

It gives you the ability to make out mega/mixpacks - which people like
and it won't give you any penalties, because you are not going to notice them, while you have this "scent" on you and stuff simply unveils around you, so people do not get a bad fealing, that it could be used against you, but it feels like something, that only works for you

[limber hull]

@daring talon cera and troodon ain't doing anything to either stego or deino, sucho probably won't share the same space with deino, allo isn't anywhere near a "pseudo-apex", and removing animals from an already small roster likely won't fly well

[daring talon]

as you add cera and troodon, remove stego and deino
not add cera and troodon to fight stego and deino
also
the massive balance problems that come from 2 bigass apex dinosaurs, one of which has 0 threats other then its own kind as long as it doesnt do anything incredibly stupid, seem worth removing the fatso's till something can at least eat their babies/sub adults to me

[sage yew]

agree and if it's about making the current branch balanced, why not just balance it, instead of removing playables - if work needs to be done anyway

[daring talon]

deinos quite literally have 0 threats as babies but other deinos, which almost never eat them

bary, cera (Maybe, if it can dive), sucho, any other midtier or larger semi aquatic could at least cut down on deino population by mass murdering the babies

instead we have an apex that you grow for free

that can 1 shot just about anything cept for itself and stegos

[fossil pagoda]

we have 9 dinos and you want to remove two of them? yeah..

[limber hull]

cera probably won't be diving, but bary might (also I hope to God sucho can't dive or is incentivised to spend a lot of time around deeper bodies of water)

[sage yew]

that's not so true, as I saw a deino fighting omnis and lost, because he went too far from the waters

but your main problem is, that deinos do not have an antagonist?

[limber hull]

thats a terrible deino dear god

[cyan flame]

Maybe it was a smaller deino vs many omnis.

[limber hull]

how does the animal with a 50% bleed resist die to the bleeder animal

[daring talon]

lets say i spawn a baby deino
I never die as long as no other deinos get hungry
i have a literal safezone that spans the entire map

also that is an ass deino yeah

[sage yew]

if terrible or not, does not really matter

[daring talon]

It really does matter how did br not hit the utahs

ever
or just like walk back to water how far did he go

[cyan flame]

It absolutely matters, because we don't judge things based on someone making the worst decisions ever.

[daring talon]

I dont think its even possible to go far enough from water for utahs to L you before you get back as a deino

unless you are letting them constantly pounce you like that had to be the worst deino player in existence

[sage yew]

that applies to every species, it's called mostly "AFK growing"
it's safe for everyone if you really desire

[limber hull]

i think that deino may have been suicidal

[cyan flame]

Like, I can count a few times I could have died on my grown stego to carnos because I allowed them to get a bunch of free alt bites in my face before I took the fight seriously. I don't think that's a good judgement for how it normally goes :p

[daring talon]

If i hide in a bush as any land animal, there are other land animals that will come kill me if im unlucky, and i have to leave my bush to go eat

[sage yew]

also, they are not 9 playables, but 7+2
as deinos represent the aquatic gameplay and pteras the flyers

I don't think it's currently atractive to balance them, as they are mostly used by the defs for testing

[daring talon]

If i hide in the river as a deino, my food can be in the river (fish/corpses) other deinos will most likely protect me and not eat me, and i have realistically 0 threats

[limber hull]

i dont understand what the hell this means

"not 9 playables but 7+2" is such a bizarrely inane statement

[daring talon]

hell I can eat once, hit 60-70% growth, and now i can grab and therefore 1 shot if near water grown adult carnos

[limber hull]

they're still playables

[daring talon]

trust me its hard to grow guys

[cyan flame]

What we could do instead of removing stego and deino is to attempt to balance them for what they are, and not "count" on something else to deal with them.

[sage yew]

deino is only there to geather data on how aquatics are supposed to work, not for gameplay (as fun) or balancing

[limber hull]

thats entirely untrue what

[cyan flame]

But then that requires an approach to balancing that will properly cause them to fight each other more often than not, and to create a situation where you can't "allow" them to play nice if they want to survive, much less thrive

[sage yew]

maybe

[limber hull]

where are you getting this info because that's just not true

[sage yew]

no facts, just my thoughts on this

[limber hull]

if they wanted to test deino and nothing else, they'd only have him in private QA and stress tests

[daring talon]

I guess that could work, but they would probably have to massively increase damage on head hits to stego, so that carno can actually do something to it
and deino would have to be unable to reach the water over a much shorter distance then currently

[limber hull]

because why make something that isn't meant to be fun or balanced a public thing

[sage yew]

you need an actual environment for that

[sterile pivot]

Yeah I think you are right, I think both ptera and dieno were made to see how flying/full aquatic would work, and how well they would be in the game.

[daring talon]

[cyan flame]

Nah, you misunderstood a bit. What I mean is it's fine that only stegos can kill stegos, and deinos deinos, if we make that a common thing and in such a way that it is a proper limiter to their numbers.

[daring talon]

that would be good tbh

although to be fair that would end up in the same changes
moreheadshot damage to stegos so getting ambushed by a deino while drinking is an L
less range from water for deinos so that if they leave it and a stego sees them its an L

[cyan flame]

@daring talonRight now deinos are cannibals, and yet we have massive numbers. And stegos also come in huge herds if they want to. This happens because it can happen, and that's where you'd have to approach it. If we could somehow change the state so that it's not possible to sustain more than two adult stegos + nothing bigger than a few subs, that'd limit them. And the same for deinos.

[daring talon]

maybe migration will manage that

[cyan flame]

What you'd have to do is balance it in such a way that deinos can not sustain more than two adults in an area, and even then, most likely they can't sustain more than one of them. There's a few ways to do this, working both with food values, and how AI currently works.

[fossil pagoda]

Deino and stegos are 0 problems to the current roster. You can simply see deinos as a trap near the water. If you fall into it, you die. Stegos will never catch any other dino. They have no other influence in the ecosystem, that's why stego and deino players get bored and start killing each other

[sage yew]

but I don't understand why "its safe for them" is such a problem, as it applies to every other species as well - feels more like a vendetta on deinos then anything else

simply spawn NE and you are free to go

[cyan flame]

If you removed all AI from diets, so they only fulfill food, and then reworked food values for both carni and herbi food, you might get something slightly harsher for them.

[cyan flame]

Because afking carries the risk of being found on land, not in water. And if you do get found, as long as you're a deino, you can dive and get away, an afk small other critter can not.

[sage yew]

we consider "risk" in different ways here

[daring talon]

ptera and deino have safe growths
the rest of the roster does not
deino can sit in water, and win
ptera can sit on a rock, and win
every other creature has to leave its bush/safety to eat, and can be killed by other creatures while eating/drinking
deino and ptera only die to deino and ptera, unless they do something stupid

[cyan flame]

Honestly, deinos should not have AI on their diet at all, they're the last critter, aside from maybe ptera, that needs to worry about bad diet anyway in most cases. That'd make it a bit harsher for them to group up at least, or should if they care for their diet.

[daring talon]

This is fine with ptera, ptera is a pathetic bird
this is not fine with an apex predator

[sage yew]

just spawn NE and you have hours of completely interruption free gameplay

[daring talon]

map problem

[daring talon]

lets assume gateway fixes that stupid thing where half of the map is never toouched

[sage yew]

yes, it has many reasons, but it still remains true

[daring talon]

suddenly deinoo and ptera are the easiest things to grow

(Until dryo gets burrows)

[cyan flame]

Not at all. Everyone can afk, but only deino has a very reliable way to just escape as long as it doesn't just die outright. Deino and ptera can afk out of reach of anything but their own kind.

[sage yew]

always has been, if you want

[daring talon]

you are have dense

[sage yew]

what?

[cyan flame]

Which is why we can work on changing that. Which might be better, instead of just removing them.

[daring talon]

ok yeah that makes more sense tbh

[cyan flame]

Even ptera can be given a bit more risk if we want, just remove AI from diet.

[daring talon]

well you cant remove ai from pt diet entirely
its kinda like the main fisher bird whats the point of fish

[sage yew]

my point is, it's neither the fault of deinos or pteras current state, it's more of a problem about mechanics missing completely

you can't fix the current build, without major changes to the game

[cyan flame]

You're a flying scavenger, you got great reach, go find your kills and hope the thing that killed them is in a sharing mood. Add the ability to eat rotten food for all three nutrients, like deinos can eat bone for all three nutrients, and you got the growth covered, at some risk.

[daring talon]

or missing dinosaurs
ptera wont be safe anymore when herrara is added

[cyan flame]

You could make the argument that it has a "guaranteed" food source there, in the form of fish. But fine, we can keep the schooling fish as one basic nutrient, or, we can make schooling fish give all three nutrients, so it's a growth source.

While you then need to take more risks when you're grown, to keep diet.

[barren zephyr]

@bitter dove well why not make it so you can look to the side of you because you have eyes on the side of your head

[daring talon]

deino growth will be significantly harder when something has no reason not to eat its babies and can easily reach them (Bary/sucho/spino)

[cyan flame]

Like how deino can eat bones for growth, ptera eats schooling fish for it, and then when they're grown they need proper kills to get their organs for diet. Honestly, just removing specific critters from diets would help make carni life a bit more interesting.

[sage yew]

I hate this argument and I hate to be this guy, but that's not how it works

[cyan flame]

Yes, but then we're still counting on something else to be present to "fix" it.

[daring talon]

tbh if theu hadnt added an apex with 0 threats then...
but no
ALLIGATOR COOL!!!!!!

[cyan flame]

Which is not a solution I'm entirely happy to accept. Not if we can also make it challenging even without counting on something else to "fix" it.

[barren zephyr]

Well regardless the camera lock is a good feature and shouldn't be widened like that

[daring talon]

well ofc it should still be challenging even without that outside factor

[cyan flame]

Which is why I'm arguing for solutions that will make deino harsh to live as even if there are only deinos. Same with ptera (though harsh for a ptera isnt that bad), and stego even.

[sage yew]

to deinos being "unbeatable", I've made this suggestion, to make lunge an active process for both parties

#general-feedback-discussion message

[daring talon]

Which is completely understandable, still not sure about the tiny, 0 threat ptera being harsh, but the apexes should be hellish to grow and sustain, even without other dinos around

[sage yew]

yep, and that's not my point

#general-feedback-discussion message

this is

[barren zephyr]

Dieno is only unbeatable because there are no apexes in yet

Just wait for the apexes

[daring talon]

I would very much like deinos lunge not being a stupid brainless 1 shot move on everything smaller then it
however apparently im just suppossed to randomly die because someone else resource camped and pressed 1 button according to this community

[sage yew]

that won't fix the lack of mechanics, which is the core problem in general

[cyan flame]

I just think even ptera could do with some more challenge honestly. Would also make it more interactive without the whole "add damage so I can kill". And people do want the "symbiotic" thing, so pteras works well for following carnis for scraps.

[daring talon]

ptera not being boring would be cool
is that really gonna happen though

[sage yew]

how about pteras cleaning deinos or stegos?

[daring talon]

ptera cant be on the diet of anything it cleans

[cyan flame]

Maybe. But that'd require entirely new things. I'm working more so on what we currently have.

[daring talon]

otherwise you are just feeding that thing free food

it will let the ptera finish cleaning then eat it if it gets a buff

[sage yew]

fair

[cyan flame]

Not that a deino would even get anything from a ptera but :p

[urban flax]

I mostly play ptera
And I would never go close enough to a deino's mouth to clean its teeth
Unless my life literally depends on it

[tall hearth]

Deino could have elite fish in its diet up until it hits adolescent, which it disappears from its dietary needs. Adolescent and beyond, it would have to rely on nutrients from players and players alone. No ai farming for diets.

Maybe same with most of the other carnivores. Ai would give diet up until a certain growth then disappears, future proofing elder growths so people dont live off ai and become peak elder without interacting with the rest of the player base.

[daring talon]

yeah but they'll still do it
especially if we assume they keep their current 50000000 hours till starving hunger rate

[sage yew]

okay

[daring talon]

should probably depend on the current largest carnivores
if this were to be implemented today then carno and deino
if it were to be implemented when everything is added then just the apex carnivores (which includes deino)

maybe the almost apexes that arent fishers

[tall hearth]

Nah, at some point in each carnivores growth they would lose their ability to gain diets from ai

[cyan flame]

@urban flaxHere's a take for you then. Remove all AI from it's diet, aside from schooling fish which gives all three nutrients (acting as a growth food, just like how deino can eat bones for that). But for specific diet when grown, you need organs, so get to scavenging (or killing if you can).

[sage yew]

adding apex won't fix or balance anything, we had this talk here already countless times

[tall hearth]

This prevents ai farming, crocs would compete, and itd be harder to grow overall which is a good thing.

[daring talon]

not fishers
they kinda exist to eat fish why pick a fisher if you cant fish

[daring talon]

im not talking about fixing or balancing other creatures by adding apexes
im talking about balancing apexes by making them not get anything from eating ai

[urban flax]

As a ptera ?

[sage yew]

oh, sorry

[daring talon]

you aight (:

[cyan flame]

Yes, since you said you play ptera a lot. The goal is to give it slightly more risks and make it a bit more interactive with the rest of the roster and so on.

And since you'd still have a quick road to adult due to school fish "growth", I figured it might be worth it

[sage yew]

The last time I suggested to remove AI from Adults I've got a total backlash here

[urban flax]

Uh

1. You don't get organs from scavenging since they're the first thing that gets eaten
2. Why can't a fisher live off fish ?

It seems weird for an animal designed to eat fish and nothing else to lose fish from its diet

[cyan flame]

You can still live off of it, just you can't go any other dietary path than growth one. And well, scavenging in the sense of finding something and hope you can hae a scrap or two I suppose. Makes for more interactions.

[urban flax]

I'd be fine with adult needing "harder to catch" fishes (but not impossible like elite fish)

[cyan flame]

You don't lose fish from the diet, it only becomes more specific for a purpose.

[daring talon]

dinosaur game balance chats are a mosh pit
everyone disagrees on one thing or another with everyone else
and usually people cant change their opinions when shown a better option (I no longer think removing the two apexes until something can eat them is a good idea) so everyone just rumbles till they all get muted for a slur or something

[cyan flame]

You can still thrive on it if you don't want a specific diet path.

And it's schooling fish, so you can actually get it :p

[daring talon]

if you want special diet you must kill other people
but you can still have 3 of same diet off of fish if you are x3 uwu ptera roleplayer who just wants to nest (cringe)

[sage yew]

sound fair

[urban flax]

I play ptera to chill and explore the map, sometimes to be an annoying bird, not really to seek risky interactions with other animals
On one hand, ptera doesn't lose much from not having a good diet with that playstyle, on the other hand, it's incredibly frustrating to be unable to fill those hexagons with the thing you're designed to go for

[sage yew]

For the sake of discussion I usually completely ignore what the game currently is

[cyan flame]

I know, I'm just thinking a bit more interaction would be nice. We do every now and then see people say "buff ptera so it can hunt and kill juvies", this would be one way to add more interaction without adding the fighting aspect more than it is capable of already.

[urban flax]

Then consider the fact quetz and herra wil exist and make ptera's life really scary

[sage yew]

I do

[bitter dove]

because ure eating/drinking lol? u dont move ur head wildly when eating , but u can see cause u have eyes

[urban flax]

But these people don't know how to appreciate ptera
They're the same people who say ptera's turn radius change was a nerf, although it now feels A LOT better to fly with

[sterile pivot]

Cant wait for quetz, will actually be good

[sterile pivot]

I mean for combat it was kinda a nerf

[daring talon]

herrara will eat the pteras if they run into the woods t escape the quetz
when they exit the woods to escape the herrera they get quetz'd
better figure out how to dodge one or the other...

[urban flax]

@candid hare The Isle takes place in modern times and the animals like chicken and goats have been brought there by humans

[sterile pivot]

Ngl I cant wait for a quetz vs ptera battle, flying through the skies fighting will be cool

[cyan flame]

I am aware, but as much as I agree with your view on ptera, we're not the only two players after all. And I don't think it would neccesarily be bad, at least until ptera do have more things to do and worry about. Besides, even now, you need different AI to get all your diets, so it'd just be "organs only" + schooling fish, since elite fish is hard to get, and the other AI are well, not fish xD

[urban flax]

Not a big deal
If anything it makes combat against a ptera more fair

[sage yew]

still not cutting the edge for me, it still needs a lot of attention development wise

but to be fair, I'm into tons of flying simulations, so I'm kinda biased on this

[sterile pivot]

Against not FOR
Pteras already struggl e alot

[daring talon]

either quetz will dive through flocks of pteras and mass murder them
or pteras will swarm solo quetz like piranahs

hopefully both are possible
(it would be cool for dogfighting to actually be a thing)

[cyan flame]

The turning nerf from what I know wasn't even a nerf, more a fix.

Or well, the change wasn't meant to be a nerf, it needed work for other reasons.

[urban flax]

Ptera was not strong, but unfair to fight against. Now it's still kinda unfair, it's just as strong as before, but a little bit less frustrating. And also feels better to play when you're not fighting.

[sage yew]

people got used to broken and unfinished mechanics again

[urban flax]

It now feels like a real animal and not a drone

[daring talon]

I hope current deino lunge is a broken and unfinished mechanic that gets fixed

[sage yew]

jeez, it has to be
how it works is a bad joke

[urban flax]

All I'd want regarding that turn radius would be that airbraking allows you to make sharp turns. So you keep a good combat capability if you're really into pulling sick moves, but it's more predictable and visually pleasing.

[daring talon]

trust me bro you were forced to drink at a watersource that i can camp in invisibly trust me i get to 1 shot you its fair bro im telling you

you simply have a skill issue bro im telling you its fair

[sterile pivot]

Yeah...Its pretty broken/buggy for both the dieno and the victims. Half the time dieno randomly misses, and half the time its so unbelievably broken the victim has no chance of escape

[daring talon]

i wish that it took effort on both parties

AND that the hitboxes were perfect or nearperfect so that someone couldnt escape or kill with 0 effort due to a bad hitbox

[sage yew]

never made the math, but I only get cought by 1/50 or maybe 1/20 - I don't bother about deinso

I'm only mad at how the lunge mechanic was executed

[sterile pivot]

Exactly. Your 4h growth 74% stego deserves to be drown by me since the game is a horror game and its suppose to be scary to drink water

[urban flax]

still nerf stego tho

[sterile pivot]

100%

[daring talon]

I get caught by closer to 1/2 or 1/4 tbf, but that seems to be a mixture of ass carno turn rate + no jump + deino is really goddamn fast jeez
I can still drink often and usually not get L'd
but when theres a deino i usually die just due to funny

[daring talon]

your grownass carnotaurus that you had to dodge utahs and other carnos for while constantly killing for that blackhole stomach should die to my 50% deinosuchus because i pressed one button

[urban flax]

That's how it works in nature

[daring talon]

maybe im unlucky
maybe im bad
idk

[sage yew]

deino lunging 2 ton prey and walking with them like a happy puppy with his favourite stick

but I avoide being caught by deinos simply only by drinking at spots where they don't camp and to get cought, they must traverse this part of the river at this moment, which is pretty rare

it feels like I never get caught, until it happens

[sterile pivot]

I havent gotten caught once since I started playing again in the last 3 weeks, but thats only because I go to the farthest most unused channels(Like the one at the back of nw or the one with the shallow rocks by the branch of the central river). However the one time I crossed further down the river between swamp and center I nearly got grabbed by a dieno

[daring talon]

kinda like lightning in beasts of bermuda
you never get stuck with random death
until you do

[sterile pivot]

"it feels like I never get caught, until it happens"
Literally so true. You can be in the safest feeling place and then suddenly your no more

[sage yew]

no no no, not that lightning discussion

[daring talon]

ok we will stay away from random death and other video game we will stick with isle deino being cringe

[sage yew]

true
like I said, somewhat inbetween of 1/20 to 1/50 or something, but I aint mad at this "success rate" of mine

[cyan flame]

Just because it's realistic does not mean it makes for good or fun gameplay, keep that in mind and we'll be fine.

[daring talon]

adds a bit of horror and atmosphere
OR IT WOULD
if it wasnt so incredibly annoying to lose 1-4 hours due to a brainlet pressing 1 button and resource camping

[sage yew]

that's why I hope that the lunge mechanic is just alpha

[sterile pivot]

Exactly. If it was a struggle it would be so much better

[daring talon]

it should be possible to escape and feel like its your fault when you die
not just "Looks like another fatherless child was in that river. Welp guess its time to regrow/go play a better game"

[sterile pivot]

Yeah. The devs literally punish you for trying to get one of the two most important resources in the game, as well as attempting to move around the map(Typically need to cross rivers to get to important/larger parts of the map.

[daring talon]

"You'd better not enjoy my game that we are designing to sell as a fun video game and not a nature documentary"

[sterile pivot]

Yeah

[sage yew]

It might be unfair, but it gives me every time chills when I go to the water for a drink

[sterile pivot]

To me its not scary/makes me nervous rather it makes me really annoyed to lose my progress.

[sage yew]

but it's so rare... I really don't bother
it's still mostly your fault when you get caught - just avoid hotspots

[sterile pivot]

What the devs might not understand between invisible cliffs and invisible 1-shot dinos is that most people dont have the time to keep dying for stupid reasons, and dying of uncontrollable causes is not scary but infuriating.

[cyan flame]

I tend to treat it as "There's nothing I can do to tell if there's a deino here or not, so I'll just drink and come what may". That or just stay at shallow spots, but since I main stego, I can "afford" to be slightly less locked to those spots (though not by much, there's a surprising number of adult deinos around and they are starting to learn how to go about hunting me).

[sage yew]

deino ≠ hidden cliff

[daring talon]

Im not immersed in the game and scared of the deino
Im steeling myself to be absolutely livid for dying to 1 button press from a brainlet

[sterile pivot]

The fact I cant get to other locations without spending an extra 20 minutes going to a river I HOPE doesnt have a lot of dienos everytime I want to move to nw, center, or south for diet or food or nesting is infuriating. Then going 20 minutes away again just to get water, and one day dying in that random river because of a croc that decided to wander is upsettting.

[sterile pivot]

Exactly.

[sterile pivot]

In what way? They are both out of your control(More so dienos that cliffs), and cliffs are easier to avoid/your forced to go into water.

[sage yew]

that's an issue which I don't bother

[sterile pivot]

Wdym

You risk losing hours of progress by not worrying about moving or you dont go anywhere that has anything in a far out part of the map so you dont have to worry

[daring talon]

well tbh at least a cliff its your fault and you werent forced to go there, and you will probably remember that spot and not run off that same cliff again
a deino its literally every single watersource on the map
it doesnt matter if you remember 1 spot as having deinos cuz deinos can move

[sterile pivot]

Exactly. I suppose cliffs arent the same as deinos, deinos are way worse. I havent died of a cliff since the first time(or intentionally). Though based on how many bodies I find when traveling in ravines I cant say the same for others : D

[sage yew]

"hidden cliffcs" aka. falling from cliffs, aka. dying from cliffs, are the result of a lack of environment interactions. You simply get bored from vegetation and you run through them straight, because there is no reason to pay attantion. Loss of attantion leads you to your demise, aka. hidden cliff.

Deinos are a danger to the drinking mechanic. As doing stuff, is always coupled with a danger. Which the genre "survival" implies.

these are two completely independent and different phenomena

[sterile pivot]

Ok...guess what is the same? They both are irritating and detrimental to players enjoyment. Tho dienos are worse

[daring talon]

id prefer bad water possibly making you sick or otherwise harming your animal, or drinking the same water doing the same due to your animal's spit making it nastier, bacteria building up, eventually you drinking said own spit and bacteria, and that making you sick, to "Haha you drank here once now you lose your entire afternoon!"

[sage yew]

if this game was a dino fight brawler, it would be unnecessary and totally unfair dying by a deino. But it is not supposed to be one.

[daring talon]

ok both of you got a good point
not everything is supposed to fight deino
and getting L'd by random death via deino is infuriating

[sage yew]

you can always die to stupid and unforeseen consequences

[daring talon]

damus made a feedback post that would solve this, as while you can escape from a lunge, you are probably gonna be hella injured as one of the larger creatures (An allo, maybe a cera would probably get grabbed and fight back) whereas a smaller one you may just dodge out of the way instead, but you still arent gonna kill the deino
so its not a dino brawler
but it also removes brainlet button pressing = death

[sterile pivot]

Doesnt mean it should be encouraged and made extremely common by the game

It isnt fun to die from things outside of your control

[sage yew]

"extremely common" ...I don't share this view
for me it's just safe most of the time

[daring talon]

simply, a difference in luck

[sterile pivot]

Im glad you enjoy being on the edge of the map, personally I do not

[daring talon]

(which is dumb, luck based death isnt fun)

(but all these games want it and developers dont seem to listen to feedback in most of them so)

[sage yew]

I just walk at least 50 meters from hotspots away, which works fine
and if I want to be extra safe I go where deinos only traverse through, which I know from my experiences from playing deino. So I only get caught by occasional bypassers

[daring talon]

fair enough i suppose

[sage yew]

I sometimes don't even bother about hotspots and bring a dead body with me as an offer ...which actually works, sometimes

[daring talon]

thats very unexpected, knowing dinosaur game players

[sage yew]

that's just pure gamble, but I like it so much when it actually works

it's just so weird how this game is currently played

[sterile pivot]

Agreed

[sage yew]

I'm still speaking here of center of the map
as every other part of the map is just boring

you know that raptor rock on these hills behind center spawn? next to the river? there I go mostly, it's like a 2 min walk from center spawn

-344,-376 to be precise

[sterile pivot]

The river next to the path to swamp? Down by the rock outcrops? Its the best place in center I have found. So far I havent died there. Southern isnt too bad either though lots of small crocs that can still kill you if you arent a adult carno/teno/stego. Nw the river 5ish minutes from the grate going into the forest behind the field is a river, though I have only just started using it

[sage yew]

-350,-290 here

there I go to drink if I desire to be "safe"
I get cought there like 1/50 or 1/100

(never done the math actually)

-330,-310 now I nailed the location down
this is it

[sterile pivot]

Ah yes thats a good spot. I go more towards -350, -290. I think its sort of in between

Thers a large boulder, if you walk off that boulder theres a small beach area with a few rocks on the water

[sage yew]

that place like 50m north? yeah, spotted it too
but Im too lazy to walk that extra step xD

I just walk that one path down and go drink there, super convenient and safe enough for me

the only thing that goes onto my nerve right now, is carnos "balancing", as it's so unfun to play against ...but for that topic I'm sure (no facts, just my thoughts) that devs have this on their radar ...couldn't believe they missed that

[sterile pivot]

Ah nice, I personally have found that place kinda dangerous, some people camp it since herbies cross all the time there

[sterile pivot]

Ive found it unfun both to play against and as. If you play against it the charge and such is so annoying, and if you play as it your always starving and hunting

[sage yew]

might be true, already got surprised there. It's so "safe" that it's actually not

[sterile pivot]

Exactly...I think ive died twice there and been attacked at least half a dozen times there(Thankfully I only use that crossing when im steg/teno haha)

[sage yew]

starving is a good motivation to keep going tho
and there is nothing else to do beside hunting

worked for me during my play as a carno, but meh, Im more of an raptor type

[sterile pivot]

Yeah I like raptor playstyle more too. I think carnos constant starvation encourages that battle royale type of thing a lot. Like at least with other dinos you can nest, raise juvis, or explore(Obv not much) but carno its constant killing. You kind of have to be in busy spots till you die.

[sage yew]

it's not so bad, as you have somewhat of 30 min time once full, to make your next kill and that's plenty of time, considering that most other players are at center area. Never had bigger hunger issues

once I got lost and was at 10% health starving and just ate stuff from the beach, sure, no diets, but I could kept going till I found my way back to NW, where I could eat boar, went to center ....okay, this time I died to a hidden cliff, bummer

beside of carnos broken hitbox, this game is currently on easy mode

[barren zephyr]

Well regardless it's fun to sneak up on dinos and can help make carnos charge a real ambush again

Seeing half your screen kinda ruins the whole idea

imo

[sage yew]

what do you mean?

[barren zephyr]

What do you mean?

[sage yew]

half your screen?

[barren zephyr]

Yeah

[sage yew]

what screen

why half

[barren zephyr]

Hes saying you should be able to see out of your eyes

Which would be half your screen

[sage yew]

because dino is in your way?

[barren zephyr]

I'm confused

[sage yew]

Im too!

[barren zephyr]

You're making no sense

[sage yew]

what half screen ....

[barren zephyr]

I'm talking about camera lock

[sage yew]

oh okay

hm, people don't like the lunge or pinning down mechanic being extended, or my expose, duno =/

[barren zephyr]

Oh, i just reread it and it makes a lot of sense

I hope they do something like that

[left nacelle]

@barren zephyr What does that mean

[urban flax]

I was about to ask the same question

[left nacelle]

@worldly plume Troodon and beipi are in QA right now with cerato soon to follow, if it hasn't already. And Galli is almost animation complete

Troodon is also confirmed for next update and beipi may or may not come with troodon

[solemn bloom]

he was talking bout roblox isle lol

he got the wrong isle

[left nacelle]

Yes I realize that now lol

[solemn bloom]

alr lol

[sage yew]

there is a roblox isle?
how many of them got here that way and decided to stay, not able to understand where they actually are... it would explain sooo much

[clever lion]

Era of terro the new one?

[solemn bloom]

no its called the isle

[rancid raptor]

@candid hare It's never that easy to hunt and find animals in the wild.
Yes, this game isn't all about realism. It would however be a problem if we made it way easier than it already is

For players to find AI and fullfil their diets

just by going to an AI filled location, where you see ai every 30 seconds

[pulsar lake]

@bleak bison what kind of bird is that?

[bleak bison]

A giant petrel

It’s one of the best birds

[pulsar lake]

Thank you. It looks kind of like a cross between a vulture and a seagull or albatross

[bleak bison]

That’s exactly what it is😂but it eats Albatross,seagulls,penguins and seals

[drifting rose]

lol when i posted gore and marked it as a gore pic the admins take it down but keep ornis up .-.

[burnt bone]

Depends on how much you had. Orni just has blood for the most part, though I’m not entirely sure why it wasn’t taken down myself.

[drifting rose]

i suggested being able to rip open and hide in corpses and showed 1 picture of a hyena hiding in dead animals body but there was barley any blood

[burnt bone]

That would probably do it lol. You had an animal ripped open, Orni just has some blood.

[drifting rose]

but there was barley any blood!! all u could see was the bone and skin

and i typed so much too had 2 paragraphs of suggestion in there and it got yanked :C

[bleak bison]

My boy I feel for you😔

I also think it’d be rather counter intuitive for my post to be removed because of blood when ptera is shown like that in the latest trailer

[drifting rose]

yea when they removed it was like why theres literally gore in the game like have u seen stego organs

[urban bear]

@jaunty hull Thanks for reposting my suggestion

[jaunty hull]

np ^^

[rare fractal]

@cyan hound What about Omni needs to be buffed?

[proud coral]

It's MUSCLES HAHA doesn't even lift smh my head

yeah nevermind 🚪

[rare fractal]

Dryo benches more

[proven river]

[faint folio]

@candid hare To be fair, the reason there are modern animals is because the Isle is set in modern times. Similar backstory to Jurassic Park, but it was a lab called Apollo Engineering (AE) trying to make the perfect genetically modified creature. Hence human structures, modern animals, etc.

If we are going down the road of historically accurate, though, giant deer like megaloceros and entelodonts evolved millions of years after the extinction of the dinosaurs... Not to mention animals like emu/dodo/moa which are definitely "modern" (dodo having gone extinct in the last 500 years) and not at all prehistoric

And that is of course ignoring the fact that very few of the planned dinosaur roster coexisted during the same time period, much less ecosystem/continent. So... Eh. But, for species that we know are herding animals, I agree that they should spawn in groups

[tawdry oyster]

@topaz pendant It’s a good idea but idk if it would really fit for a tropical island

[topaz pendant]

Spiro or gateway?

[agile roost]

Because orni is more special

[tawdry oyster]

Aren’t both tropical islands?

[uneven mist]

@marsh tree we already have it

[cyan flame]

@winter terraceI don't think you're meant to bite a stego to death on it's head unless you're a deino, which does so in 7 hits.

[uneven mist]

@winter terrace as what?

if its carno i swear to god

[cyan flame]

Carno would take 18 bites, so not terrible, but probably not doable unless the stego lets you.

[rare fractal]

What on earth are you biting stego with that it takes you 100 hits to kill it

[uneven mist]

juvi carno

[rare fractal]

Would actually have to be xD

Man if only head size was the only element that's important to HP balancing

Shant would get 1 shot by allo

[uneven mist]

remember, herbivores are weak plant eaters that should crumple when seeing an carni

[rare fractal]

How else do the protein guzzlers feed themselves!

we should increase the strength of the Carnivore Anti Vegan AOE Field

Or CAVAF for short

[uneven mist]

https://tenor.com/view/emperor-star-wars-good-goooooood-evil-gif-12447951

[rare fractal]

Omni's should get an anti stego death star next patch

[lucid bridge]

Omni's should be able to fight stego's or other dinos without it glitching out

in my opinion raptor is pretty weak, and omni's cant handle that kind of bugs/glitches

it ruins the whole omni playstyle

[rare fractal]

Pounce functions properly 99% of the time for me so what other bugs are you talking about?

[lucid bridge]

Because why pouce? ur gonna get hit anyway

[rare fractal]

Also omni is anything but weak in isolation, carno and pachy are too strong....omni still curbstomps teno and can still duo stego

[lucid bridge]

what about the pouce bug that ur poucing the air

ever had that ?

[rare fractal]

Haven't even encountered that since U4

[lucid bridge]

i still have it sometimes

[rare fractal]

Not in my many hours testing nor in game proper

Well that's unfortunate, tho that has nothing to do with it's balancing

So how is it too weak

[lucid bridge]

i agree btw

with the second sentence

[rare fractal]

Gotcha, just that bugs hold it back quite a bit...

[lucid bridge]

bugs hold it back alot

and carno's being too strong too lol

[rare fractal]

I rarely if ever encounter them ironically

Like pounce is borderline 100% reliable when I play omni, not sure why

But again that's a totally separate discussion from it's balancing, bugs shouldn't be considered when evaluating an animals actual strength

[lucid bridge]

Okay question, do you think raptor right now, at this moment is considerd strong or decent ?

[rare fractal]

Very

Considered at large or just by me?

[lucid bridge]

just you

[rare fractal]

Oh then very

[lucid bridge]

very strong ?

[rare fractal]

Absolutely, especially with the major shadow buff it got in that animals without stam can no longer buck

And again, it can duo stego

[lucid bridge]

do you play raptor often though ?

[rare fractal]

Yep

Not so much lately in game, but in testing yes, I can't stand to play the "proper" experience rn

[lucid bridge]

in my eyes raptor rn is, grow and die, duo to bugs and feeling like doing absolute no damage

[rare fractal]

It's damage from U5, when it was broadly considered entirely busted OP(Which it was), is basically unchanged, so I've got no clue where it's low damage perception comes from

[lucid bridge]

what can you kill as raptor?

you personally

[rare fractal]

Teno stego dryo

Carno near trees

Pachy in duos

[lucid bridge]

Alone?

[rare fractal]

Why would I be playing omni alone

[lucid bridge]

with how many.

[rare fractal]

It's a pack animal, the whole point is to not be playing it alone

usually 3

Ideally the game isn't balanced for omni to be soloing anything above it's own size outside of an astronomical skill gap context

Which formerly...it could regardless of said gap

Omni soloing teno's and carnos was commonplace last update, fortunately it's slightly harder in tenos case, and carno's hitboxes make it basically impossible to solo

[agile roost]

So you're saying you've never died to a carno since u6?

[rare fractal]

Why on earth would you think I'd be saying that

[agile roost]

You can kill a whole pack with no skill as a carno

[rare fractal]

In the plains yeah pretty much

Near any obstacles omnis win unless they're outnumbered

Mostly trees, trees are your friend

[agile roost]

I was able to kill 3 Utahs on the beach with little effort though

[rare fractal]

Yes, because that is essentially a runway for you to charge down

That's even worse than the plains

[lucid bridge]

if a carno charges you ur dead 100% though

[rare fractal]

Yep, needs a massive damage nerf

Charge shouldn't deal much damage at all

[lucid bridge]

and i had 1 carno kill my whole 8 pack all adults

[rare fractal]

Dear god, how embarassing

[lucid bridge]

we where in a open field though

[rare fractal]

Why

[lucid bridge]

they died i ran and survived

crossing from forest to forest

[rare fractal]

Well of the lot you were the only smart one ig

[agile roost]

Bucking also is the way to basically kill a utah

[rare fractal]

I just can't fathom why as omnis you'd wanna venture into the only biome where your only predator is most effective

[rare fractal]

It's only a problem if you don't utilize baits and tap pouncing

[agile roost]

Easier said than done

[rare fractal]

That's typically where the skill comes in

Which is something omni hasn't required in a long time

[lucid bridge]

tap pouce? not hold it ?

[rare fractal]

So this is honestly quite a nice change of pace

[uneven mist]

Yes

[lucid bridge]

doesnt holding apply more bleed though ?

[agile roost]

How much stamina would it use though

[rare fractal]

Yes, most of your bleed damage actually comes from your target spending their stam to worsen said bleed...stacking is good but don't get greedy

[rare fractal]

usually less than half

[lucid bridge]

i always stack it to half

[uneven mist]

Also people don’t remember that nothing can buck off an Omni when they are out of stam

[lucid bridge]

then jump off regain

[rare fractal]

Well obviously, same as face tanking technically applies more damage than hitting and running

[agile roost]

So you can only tap once?

[rare fractal]

Well, sorta...it's the best method while your target has stamina to spend

Once that stam is gone they die

[uneven mist]

It’s the best strategy rn, to make your prey loose their stam and when they are out you full on pounce then

[rare fractal]

Which is really quite easy for most targets

[agile roost]

Alr

[rare fractal]

Unless it's a pachy, but again that is sorta designed to be one of your worst targets

[agile roost]

Dryo is basically a free meal

[rare fractal]

Dryo is literally a worthless piece of trash rn

[uneven mist]

Kentro and pachy literally being designed to counter Omni lol

[agile roost]

Yeah, as it should be

[rare fractal]

And stego....and deino....makes me wonder if adding a ton of omni counters to the early roster was an excuse to make it overpowered

Oh and carno...can't forget about carno

[cyan flame]

I think the general idea for omni this update is to first wear targets stam out, via baiting attacks, movement, and tap pounces to both add some bleed and bait a buck, until the target is low on stam. The lower the stam, the more bleed the target takes, and any added damage helps as well (if you can get bites and tap pounces in), not to mention lower on food and water, which also helps your bleed. Think of it as the proper attrition thing, you want to "wait out" the prey, and then finish it off when it's weak and exhausted.

[rare fractal]

I can't believe we've finally reached a state where omni is both functional and doesn't steamroll anything it sets it's sights on...what a world

[cyan flame]

We do have a roster that omni is not at all suited to hunt, which is a bit odd.

[rare fractal]

Accept for teno, but yknow....I'm convinced the devs hate teno at this point so it makes sense

Like if anyone here thinks omni is bad...attempt to play teno rn....it's worse than you could imagine

[uneven mist]

And people still complain that it can’t solo carno or teno lol

[rare fractal]

Oh the horror, my half ton dromeosaur isn’t the protagonist no more, how will I cope

[uneven mist]

Nappen in a nutshell

[rare fractal]

Dear god that debate

[uneven mist]

I do like nappn but he seems like he doesn’t care about the balance and only wants Omni to be overpowered

[oblique creek]

That's the problem with omni mains lol

[rare fractal]

There was or rather still is a coalition of Omni supporters indiscriminately upvoting every pro Omni buff feedback for about a month once 6 dropped, they’ve kinda died down…but that seems to be the type we’re looking at

[oblique creek]

And there's alott of them that cry about omnis state rn even though it's pretty dang fine

[uneven mist]

[oblique creek]

Fr tho XD

[rare fractal]

Carno is it’s only illegitimately poor matchup…otherwise it’s the best it’s ever been balanced

[oblique creek]

Pachy and teno are kinda in a bad place too but yea

[uneven mist]

The biggest issue is that you Omni doesn’t have alot of prey to hunt solo but that’s it, and the UI for the stam when it’s getting bucked

[rare fractal]

Pachy is fine, teno is barely better than dryo rn…Carno curbstomps it, Pachy deletes it, Omni still kills it way easier than it should, and ultimately their matchup is just kinda lame…

Pachy is anything but weak tho

[oblique creek]

Honestly I get on pretty ok as solo omni. I just stick to prey I know I can handle like juvis and subs and hang around areas I know I can find them. But if does have lack of prey options in general

[oblique creek]

Yea pachys good but I don't think it should dust teno the way it does when teno is literally meant to be defensive but cant defend against pachy whatsoever

[uneven mist]

Yeah but also I’m excited for troodon, beipi, Galli and Herrera because they are options for solo Omnis and maybe dilo but that will most likely be more difficult

[rare fractal]

Oh trust me I wasn’t speaking to it’s balancing quality, Pachy absolutely should not be able to stand a reasonable shot of killing a teno even in groups of 3 purely by how it’s combat mechanics function….and yet here we are

[oblique creek]

Me too. I look forward to hunting young omni as troodon aswell lol

[oblique creek]

Ikr. So damn broken

[rare fractal]

Like I’m honestly in support of teno just having hyper armor during its attacks…or Pachy just not being able to stun it….or pachy’s stuns be solely reserved for when it applies a fracture so it has a max stun count of 3

Anything would be better than this

[uneven mist]

Pachy not being able to stun it it just stun when it gets fractured

[rare fractal]

How great would that be

[oblique creek]

That could definitely work. It's alott harder to attack a pachy as teno then vise versa after all

[rare fractal]

Cuz why on earth would you need to further stun a target that can’t move can’t attack and has no stam

[uneven mist]

I fear for future implementation like dibble, cera, magy, kentro and bary

[rare fractal]

Well that’s one of the elements of teno’s design philosophy I love, all of its strongest attacks basically can’t be used aggressively because of their orientation and movement penalties…it’s SO easy to balance and incredibly skill expressive…but when an animal a third your size can basically turn you into paste head on it takes all those well designed combat elements and turns them into the many reasons teno is no longer viable….

Such a sad state for the games most well designed playable

[rare fractal]

Oh yeah Cerato just straight up dies, Kentro just dies, Magy just dies….bary swims away then gets killed by deino

[oblique creek]

Facts. Teno gotta be the most well deigned evrima animal yet and it's just a fly on the wall now lol

Sad days

Used to be my definite favorite Dino to play but there's literally 0 point rn

[rare fractal]

For me it still is, which is why I basically don’t play much on “actual” servers anymore, just combat testing with friends on private servers

And occasionally I’ll play Omni or Pachy on officials

[uneven mist]

Everything dies to pachy

[rare fractal]

even bary, indirectly but the bary wouldn’t be walking into the jaws of death unless Pachy was threatening to powderize its skeleton

[uneven mist]

I really hope when they are implemented and pachy rams them they just don’t inch and look at it in shame

[limber hull]

so glad this sentiment is spreading

[uneven mist]

[rare fractal]

Just flashes a megamind meme in front of it before going full United States of smash on its ass

[limber hull]

https://tenor.com/view/piccolo-orange-piccolo-dbs-dragon-ball-super-super-hero-dragon-ball-gif-27144611

[rare fractal]

Like….how neat would it be if ram was a hit and run ability…it’s almost like that’s the intent

[uneven mist]

Exactly lol

[limber hull]

pachy player realising it can no longer solo a teno by stagger spam

god i love that gif

[rare fractal]

W for finally giving piccolo a win
W for encapsulating ideal balance

[limber hull]

its also the most badass way they could give him a win

[rare fractal]

“The council has deliberated your proposal and has decided to end your existence”

[tawdry oyster]

@polar inlet Cause they’re doing foundation first.

[sage yew]

@polar inletit's called testing
something that you need to do as an developer, to - you know - develop new mechanics

[polar inlet]

2015-2023, 8 years still in this state!! I love the game but at the moment I see a dead end

[uneven mist]

2015 -2018/19 was legacy
Then they completely restated with just assets and experience

[sage yew]

that's just how it goes if you try to conquer a new realm of genre, that never has been before, as open world survival is pretty new, with little to none already established mechanics like shooters for example have - especially if you are supposed to play animals, that are behaving in different ways compared to humanoids characters

oh, and it's a small dev team

[burnt bone]

It is in a much different state than back then lmao. We have much more unique mechanics and creatures.

We even have playable humans to an extent

[tall hearth]

You know what the legacy branch is? The devs literally could not work on it anymore. If they tried adding anything new the game would literally break.

So they decided to start from scratch I think in 2019. So of course its gonna seem, on paper, the game has been in development since 2015.

[sage yew]

not that any of these ware already finished or made to fit together, but yes, there is a huge progression that just went under the hood

[limber hull]

i also like how your post implies that the devs knew that no one would nest but added it anyways

people not wanting to nest isn't on the devs lol

it's on the people

[sage yew]

eeeeeeeh~ I don't agree on this fully, but I kinda get what you are saying

[limber hull]

they didn't add nesting with the knowledge no one would use it, tho

it's ridiculous to consider it a waste of time or a useless feature if they made it with the intent to be used

[sterile pivot]

Eventually a line has to be drawn though. We can say "They conquered a new realm of genre" All we want but to those who actually know how programming works lets be real: The gore was just making resized and retextured meat chunks to look like organs, the other half was making the generated gore give x, y, or z nutrients for f/g to fill the percentiles. Then if player head hitbox is in body hitbox and left click is used change body model. Thats not very hard. And where was the scarring/body damage update? Like seriously.

[uneven mist]

Lots of people were excited for nesting as well

[sage yew]

it's basically just there so you can experience it and give some feedback

[limber hull]

none of that is true tho

each gore item is a unique model

[polar inlet]

I am one of them, but still never had the occasion to use it

[sterile pivot]

Exactly. Many people still use nesting, though it isnt encouraged to the best of its ability until gateway. Just yesterday I was nesting with people

[limber hull]

they aren't just "retextured meat chunks"

also the act of "tearing away" at the dino's flesh to reveal the ribcage is honestly extremely impressive given the way models work in the game

[uneven mist]

I have twice and nesting is not worth it I’ll say too, mostly because why would you nest? But those issues will prob be restored with perk’s since they kinda connect

[sage yew]

sure, but gore is currently mostly just cosmetic and I don't see this mechanic currently as a big deal. It was more of an introduction to this topic then anything else

[sterile pivot]

And look how long it took...only to give a incomplete update

[polar inlet]

agree

[limber hull]

gore was not mostly cosmetic, wtf, it entirely changed how corpses are interacted with

[sage yew]

sure, but it's only one thing of many
just read the changelog

[sterile pivot]

They are models, sure they may take a bit of time but models do not take so many months to make. And all the gore models and the body models can be taken from the last one and then reeditted to save a ton of time

[sage yew]

"gore" is per definition just a visual thing :D
but yes, corpse mechanics got extended too

[polar inlet]

again, true

[limber hull]

no it isn't? corpse mechanic expansion is inherently linked to gore

[sage yew]

neither of you is wrong here
but that's just how it goes

[burnt bone]

Welcome to early access with 3 programmers. It takes time, and it’s incomplete because they actually decided to give an eta of “end of the year” (which is why they hate etas)

[sage yew]

"gore" is only a keyword

[polar inlet]

9 not 3

[limber hull]

no it isn't???

[uneven mist]

? It’s 3

[sterile pivot]

Every game has a chyangelog like that every update. 95% of those take 5-10 minutes. The only real struggle would be the first few, including the ai and human character.

[limber hull]

its absolutely not 9

[uneven mist]

It’s dmIV, amarok and Filipe

[limber hull]

filipe, dmIV, amarok. There's the coders

3, not 9

[burnt bone]

I’m talking about programmers, not the rest of the devs

[limber hull]

idk where you're getting 9 from

[sage yew]

probably from the discord overview

currently are 7 "devs" online

[sterile pivot]

Yeah not all devs are programmers, devs can model/program/work on audio/etc.

[polar inlet]

I saw on Linkedin, but ok... 3

[uneven mist]

A what

[polar inlet]

they are 3.... hire a couple more??

[tall hearth]

They're currently trying to hire more

[sage yew]

"duh, just hire more!"
....it kinda feels a bit... polemic?

[limber hull]

that comes with the issue of actually having people who apply and are up to standard

[sage yew]

like some people are chinese parents: WHY AREN'T YOU A DOCTOR YET!?

[burnt bone]

They can’t do each others jobs, each of them do specific parts. Jayce isn’t going to start modeling instead of making the map and Bryan can’t start programming instead of animating.

[uneven mist]

Just hire more, don’t have them up to standards, nothing can go wrong with that

[sterile pivot]

Basically what I was gonna say ^
It doesnt work that way, cant just say "I want devs" on reddit and suddenly there you have 10 hires lol

[polar inlet]

Absolutely polemic

[sterile pivot]

Yup, thats what I was saying

[burnt bone]

Must have misread then, thought you were saying the opposite lol

[sage yew]

btw. often you can't just increase the number of developers to speed up progess, as only so many people can work on any given topic, without becoming just a huge mess

[sterile pivot]

Oh I probably should have said: Devs have their own niche in the team, modelling, programming, work on audio, etc.

[polar inlet]

understood

[sterile pivot]

Not sure about that. Im a follower of several games that have massively expanded their dev team in just a few months. Then again those games were very successful/quickly growing.
Dev teams grow with their games

[sage yew]

sure, this can work for many cases, but not all

[jagged sleet]

@blissful latch I play on gamepad and I can map alt attacks on Teno but at the cost of not being able to use your bite attack.

In the controls in the keyboard section, uncheck "alt" and "cmd" from primaryB and secondaryB, then go to the gamepad section and map your primaryA to a button you don't use (I throw all my useless buttons in the 'Start' button), and set your primaryB to your main attack button of choice (this'll be your claw attack) and then I binded my secondaryB (tail slam) to "B" (right button) on my controller.

[sage yew]

I don't even know if the game is already flashed out on paper and devs only follow their checklist - at this point I would assume that they still gather ideas and go back and forth with it, which could be one of the reasons, that progression feels so slow

[urban flax]

Yeah they're doing pre-production and production at the same time
Which is, arguably, not a great way to develop a game, but if they did things in order we'd still be playing legacy
And half of the team would be doing nothing

More than half

[sage yew]

that's basically the curse of EA, but at least we got something to complain about :D

[limber hull]

as a game designer, you HAVE to get constant design work done

you can't preplan everything

[sage yew]

like basically every game scraps huge chunks of the game during development, not so uncommon

[sterile pivot]

It would be nice if the devs actually showed us their plan and their current progress.

[limber hull]

ehhh

i'd personally really not want that

[sage yew]

"portal" looked at some point like this

and we got this

[limber hull]

it creates a lot of false ideas of what's to come due to the constantly shifting nature of game development. What they reveal in that will end up being outdated and seen as a "promise", and used as ammo against the devs

i've worked game design myself, it's not wise to just spew out all of your coming plans

[sterile pivot]

Yeah, like you do what you want with the game you are making because your passionate about it, but at the same time if that passion does not aline with the comuntiy's you still release something that makes them happy.
You dont lie and gaslight your community and be a butt about it and then scrap your ideas and make new ones and just spam doodles you made on paper and release incomplete updates

[urban flax]

At one point they were doing this
But the community started freaking out and getting mad at everything they showed, even though they always specified it was WIP

[burnt bone]

1 sec kisses said something about this

[sage yew]

had the same problems... people really don't get the concept of WIP

[polar inlet]

clear as water

[burnt bone]

#isle-discussion message

[urban flax]

Many people I've talked to here who were complaining about the concept arts didn't know the meaning of concept art

[sterile pivot]

Concept art are literally designed for future models of ideas they want to implement into the game. If you are struggling to release lizards and penguins to the game why make concepts for apexs we wont see for many years?

[limber hull]

this is an entirely ridiculous sentiment

[urban flax]

Exactly what I was talking about

[sage yew]

quod erat demonstrandum

[polar inlet]

No that's a good point...

[limber hull]

it really isn't

[burnt bone]

“Why work on concept art? Just show us models and animations!”

-many users who don’t understand that there is a dedicated concept artist…

[sterile pivot]

Elaborate? What is it then. Ive made concept arts and seen concept arts, so what am I considering wrong?
Concept arts are the 2d drawing forms of ideas they have for the future? Am I not wrong?

Concept arts are concepts...ideas, future prospects

[sage yew]

concept arts are nothing more but ideas

[limber hull]

tell me, what exactly is the concept artist doing, if not making concept art? They aren't modelling the coming dinosaur, nor are they programming it. They aren't making it's sounds, or its animations.

They're doing absolutely nothing. The reason we get concept art for apexes "many years to come" is because the concept artist is doing their damn job, and has prepared concept art for many of the soon-to-come animals

[urban flax]

So what's wrong in doing concept art for future playables ?

[limber hull]

so as time goes on, more concept arts are made for more animals in a timeframe further away

i never understand why people get so utterly offended that the concept artist makes concept art

[urban flax]

Because it's quicker to make concept art than to make the full creature with its model and animations

[sage yew]

I've already worked with concept arts on hand and had to explain to my client that it simply dose not work in reality

[limber hull]

i'd rather see the concept art for rex now than have to wait till a month before rex is released to see it, because at least then the concept artist is actually doing something

[sterile pivot]

This is exactly the point. Concept arts realistically arent needed for several years. They are doing absolutely nohing if they arent making concept art as you said. So why be spending money and managing artists and designers on your team if you dont need them. This connects back to team management and further development.

[limber hull]

so what, fire the concept artist? for the act of being there and taking up money?

that hardly seems fair

[icy lion]

Do you believe that the occasional nature scene is all Tapwing makes?

Plenty of concept art goes unreleased

She has done far more than dino concepts, as we've seen in the past

[sterile pivot]

I dont know what people are working on

[sage yew]

I bet some of these concept arts arised in their free time out of bordedom ...no money spend, no time wasted

[limber hull]

we know the concept artist works on concept art, lol

[sterile pivot]

Meant to reply to this*

[sage yew]

how can a debate about CA be so heated....
as an artist I love to show my ideas and where I'm heading, but I hate that people do not understand how creativity works

like I make a fast sketch, and people complain that its not colored
ITS JUST A FREAKIN IDEA

[sterile pivot]

Ultimately its not really about the CA. Its about all of what weve been shown and promised and the manner of time its given in.

Ca isnt the issue, but only seeing CA when you want to see whats actually going on and be informed about a game your passionate about is

[cyan flame]

@vivid spadeI don't think it's neccesarily a good idea to use legacy matchups for Evrima. And a 4.1T sucho in the game right now would... probably just die to deino more often than not, unless it gets some way to handle an adult deino somehow.

[sage yew]

development takes time, you can't speed it up
if you build a scyscraper in 30 min, it will probably just fall apart

and yes, 8 years blah blah, be patient

[sterile pivot]

True. But you can build a skyscraper in a decade, you promise to build it in a decade, and you release it in 3 decades and parts of it dont have promised activities and rooms and the structure is poor then there is an issue people will have with it

[sage yew]

other developers just abandoned their project
like bohemia interactive

[sage yew]

that's the point
a creative process does not work like this

I sometimes spend my day roaming through the streets and call it "work", because I need it to work

[sterile pivot]

I dont think its fair to compare one dev team to any other, whether better or worse. You could also say there are dev teams that release tons of updates and constantly inform people.

[sage yew]

I'm not comparing, I just wanted to show how it can go as well

at least the Isle team is still on it

[sterile pivot]

Its all good to take longer and haev struggles through a creative process that is something unique and special compared to all the other games in its genre. It happens. The issue is when you make promises about it that arent upheld and such. And when something is hard, keeping the people around you(The community) is vital

[vivid spade]

@cyan flame I think that several suchos would simply take care of the single deino or the suchos would simply go ashore to escape the deino, so the attentive sochu player would not have to die of deino and the young deino population would finally have something to do in the water! and 4.1t so he couldn't be drowned with 100%

[sage yew]

It takes as long as it takes

nothing to be add here

[sterile pivot]

And ultimately thats the only thing you can say. We can just hope for the best in the future.

[sage yew]

that's true
all you can do is hope

and if it all goes down, just don't buy into EA games anymore
there is this huge warning sign on steam for a reason

[sterile pivot]

Yeah

[polar inlet]

Devs need to hope the community stay in game, cause if I get bored and other like me the same, the game will end.

[sage yew]

that's not how it works
because once the game is finished and actually good, people will come back

[polar inlet]

believe me it doesnt work like this

[sage yew]

no, you believe me

[blissful latch]

I couldn't even see secondary attack options on mine last time I tried I don't think but thank you! I will try this out

[blissful latch]

tysm!

[vivid spade]

@cyan flame let me put it this way, the attitude we only build smaller and even smaller dinos at first, which then fall victim to the fast, middle-class carnivores and therefore just don't have to be fun, it just has to end galli/ovi/herrera/beipi/troodon nice and good but that are again just dinosaurs standing on the sidelines and watching! i hope i could change your mind i need likes and no dislikes in this post 😉

[sage yew]

if the devs will fail providing an interesting experience for the small critters, they will also fail at providing a good game, or you end up with a brawl game, like PoT, BoB or even current Evrima, or Legacy

if a game is only considered to be good because it has the biggest creatures, well, the game with planet sized lifeforms will probably win this race

[vivid spade]

I think the little dinosaurs always had a right to be in the game and if the player just likes to flee and find peace with it, you can't just throw creatures like that into the ring !!!

[sage yew]

you can be only entertained with fleeing for a certain amount of time ...and what if no one chases you? It shouldn't be depended on the player, of he seeks out for danger or not

after eating and drinking the game becomes boring, because it's all set and done, now you can exist.... best gaming experience ever

once you get bored, the only thing left to do is fighting, trolling, or socialising, which does not speak for great game mechanics. Examples for this are: legacy, evrima, BoB and PoT.

that's why developing a gameplay experience that makes playing a compi actually interesting, is so important

[sterile pivot]

Yeah good exampels of how not to make gameplay interesting is current campto(POT) and current dryo(TI). Old dryo(Legacy) has burrowing which made it a bit better, though it still had the same issues sorta. Cant say much for BOB though, never been a fan.

It will be interesting to see how dryo changes in the future

[vivid spade]

@sage yew take for example nesting you can do it but you don't have to but if you simply haven't gotten any other dinosaur for a year or simply there aren't any larger animals in the middle of which you can hide, that's just not the special tension I'm also for that leave the dryo become a hamster let him build the underground city and if you don't feel like it play another dino this game was always fun even if it only consisted of eating and drinking it always consisted of what if i walk around the next corner what awaits me do i have to fight i have to hide ??? or do I have to run what kind of animal awaits me there I know it what can it do??? and that made the game special for me and yes i'm just a blatant dino freak xD

[sage yew]

I don't see current evrima in a sense that it's supposed to be played (while it can be played, sure). Nesting is just there so you can experience the mechanic. Which is probably accurate for many other mechanics as well.

Ptera is there to experiment with flyers
Deino is there to experience aquatics

but true gameplay experience is lacking, because they're "alone" in their realms, but provide a possibility to play with those mechanics

[sage yew]

that's the survival spirit

[vivid spade]

YES, I just can't say anything against that, that's the point .... and now on to the playable elements, so that the game finally has the experience it's supposed to

[sterile pivot]

Ngl I would love to be able to make a little underground city of burrows with a dryo 😂

Dryo kingdom > Apex kingdom

[clever lion]

Funny