general-feedback-discussion

[placid oriole]

you make a really good point, thank you for giving me that perspective!

[tiny orchid]

Bugs fixing like give Rocks a physique or something so Stegos cannot kill u thru 3m rock

@icy liondoesnt matter is for the trash can this formular

[icy lion]

QA goes over the bug reports, I can assure you we look at them

[tiny orchid]

maybe u but not the devs

[icy lion]

I don't think you know what QA is

[tiny orchid]

i know it but the dwevs do litterally nothing still anti-easy-cheat with 10 speedhacker per day

[tall hearth]

Isnt it planned that playables won't be able to hit each other through walls and other solid objects?

[tiny orchid]

since release? 😄

[tall hearth]

I mean obviously, but it was specifically said recently. Either a dev blog or in the discord cant remember which. In legacy players could hit thru walls. Was funny doing it to utahs hiding in their building.

[uneven mist]

@barren zephyr we have bary’s

[barren zephyr]

Ty lol

[tall hearth]

@unreal ridge rex in its concept seems to be a powerhouse brawler that uses it's own body as a fighting tool, giga in its concept is a bleeder that rips flesh and bleeds opponents out. Acro in its concept is shown to choke prey to death. What makes acros way of killing prey the same as rex or giga?

[unreal ridge]

well why cant rex also crush the windpipe of creatures? thats a very common weakspot

and even if acro is special because it can choke you out thats not fun at all

trike and cama are both at least 3x the size of acro and in the concept its hunting them solo

and in both its shown that acro has taken them down completely on its own

how would acro even go about getting trike on its back/side?

[cyan flame]

For all we know, acro gets some added abilities to fight those things, aside from just the "choke hold" for the kill. Acro does look big and powerful enough to be able to put up a fight in some manner at least.

[unreal ridge]

yes but you have to understand that trike is incredibly heavy and a well armored creature, its got a bone shield on its face, some of the only creatures heavier than it are sauropods

[cyan flame]

And yet we have "utahs/omnis" hunt stegos, the flank attacker hunting the animal with flank defense. So while trike does have a bone shield, maybe acro have a way around it. Not like a rex would facetank a trike either most likely, despite having more "power" most likely.

I saw some speculate that acro might be very reistant to bleed and so on due to the "utah/omni" panel, so maybe that'll give it an added advantage in those matchups, it can keep going longer than the other apexes and thus get more openings to fight or something.

[tall hearth]

That may not be how the devs want rex to play. It shouldn't be able to do everything other big playables can. That would in itself invalidate others in it's own class size. Each playable should be unique enough to have abilities people choose to play over other dinos. You want rex to be a bleeder like giga too? Or be able to hold its breathe and swim like spino?

[faint folio]

Idk about you, but that looks like a juvenile trike being choked. It's really small if acro is in the giga/rex/spino size range

[cyan flame]

Thsoe horns are not juvies, I don't think

But it could be a young adult or something

[tall hearth]

The smallest I'd guess is a sub adult trike, which is believable. The cama however looks to be an adult, but concept art size is not to be trusted.

[faint folio]

Perhaps the devs have other mechanics planned that will make rex unique from the acro. Acro's thing may be choking (or "steer wrestling"?), But maybe rex has other mechanics related to using it's body to it's advantage

[faint folio]

Yeah, late juvi or sub adult. But honestly trikes are pretty big, and I don't see that one being an adult

[tall hearth]

You mean late adolescent? Late juvi would still be pretty small and this trike looks like it has pretty developed horns too

If acro specializes in hunting subs, I'm down for that as long as adult apexes like cama and trike arent off the table either.

[faint folio]

Yeah adolescent 😅 brain derp

[unreal ridge]

im saying that they should be specialized in their own ways or what even is the point of having them if they are just reskins basically

[tall hearth]

The devs are specializing them in their own way.

[unreal ridge]

how would that be?

i see specialization in the other 3 apex canivores

not acro

im just saying acro should be better it should have a purpose and be a cool playable not some cheap chinese rex

[tall hearth]

Rex is a brawler, spino is a grappler, giga is a bleeder, acro is a choker. It seems specialized enough to me

[cyan flame]

Look at the horns, do they look like a juvies tiny nubs to you? xD

[unreal ridge]

the other 3 are fair, acro doesnt have anything unique, every other playable carnivore will be able to choke out its prey if what the devs told us about carnivore grab/shake prey attacks

[faint folio]

I mean... I haven't seen the rex's concept art, but I can think of a few different mechanics it could do-- body slam to knock dinos on their butt, pin with a foot, tail slap to knock some sense into players, whack with that big ol head

[cyan flame]

How about a CC resistant fighter, that can use that resistance to keep going vs animals that would otherwise knock things down or over, and thus get in for the chokehold, because it can also take a few hits due to extra.. padding I suppose.

[unreal ridge]

old acro was way more equipped to be a fun creature, it was the fastest apex

theres no point to play acro except for cheap kills

[cyan flame]

Old acro was not an apex though

[unreal ridge]

it was considered an apex by growth I believe

but even if it wasn't it was a very large mid tier giving it a wide birth of prey to choose from

[faint folio]

I don't think there's a way to tell speed from still images though?

[unreal ridge]

as you can see in discord's quoted images

I said that old acro was the fastest apex

base sprint*

[faint folio]

I mean... Officially in evrima there's only hatchling (0-25), juvenile(25-50), sub adult(50-75), and adult(75-100). So I was thinking maybe like a 48-50% juvenile, which for all intents and purposes is an adolescent in other games

[unreal ridge]

that is not a juvenile triceratops

[cyan flame]

Yes but the horn shape, we know subs have those curved horns, unless the model have changed, so... :p

So basically, it looks like an "adult", if not a fully grown one perhaps

[faint folio]

Actually I didn't know that; have never seen the trike models

[cyan flame]

?!

[unreal ridge]

if we go off real and appearance based aspects, it would probably be a sub adult in real life

but for the games purposes those are the horns of a fully adult triceratops

[icy lion]

Not to detract from the discussion but I sure hope our trike gets a dilo-level remodel

[unreal ridge]

also look at the in game trike models, its definately an adult

[faint folio]

That would be cool-- I like how "vulture-like" the dilo seems now

[tall hearth]

Yeah trike rn just looks kinda weird

[icy lion]

And to continue the conversation, the concept art never uses exact scales, Tapwing herself has admitted that. Plus, balance is decided when the animal is added and tested in game, not solely on the concept art. It's possible acro is scaled and statted in a way that makes tackling camas and trikes unfeasible

So I look at the matchups in the concept art with an entire salt shaker, basically

[unreal ridge]

well then shouldnt we switch to a more accurate depiction of a dinosaurs capabilities?

rather than fan service

[icy lion]

Concept art is to give an idea of an animal's character, abilities, and personality, in a sense. It doesn't have to be accurate, as "game accurate" doesn't exist for an animal in the concept stage

What is accurate in the concept art could change drastically in game, due to community feedback and other general balance decisions

[faint folio]

I think the problem is they don't know necessarily during the concept stage what a dinos capabilities are. You see this in concept art for movies-- Frozen's concept art of Elsa is NOTHING like her final design, personality, etc

[unreal ridge]

well that just gets the communities expectations for a creature way too high

[icy lion]

I don't think that's the dev's fault here

[unreal ridge]

its not a dev fault

im saying that even if that were the case, these concepts never get updated and we dont see if any changes are made

[faint folio]

Concept art is just basically a brainstorm on things you can do, rather than the promise of this is what we are going to do

[unreal ridge]

as most of these creatures will be coming out years from now on the games current track

its a concept art, trying to conceptualize what a character or creature would do in game

if its in the concept art supposedly depicting what the creature's ability is and what it can handle while it cant actually handle those things

its just a bit deceitful

[tall hearth]

Ok and? That's game development for you. Sometimes things take awhile. Nothing to get upset about

[icy lion]

That may change #isle-discussion message

[unreal ridge]

thats not the main point im trying to make, we've strayed too far from the initial point

if all other apexes have specialization to make them different from each other

and acro's is to go for a weak spot that every other carnivore uses , then it isn't unique or specialized

[cyan flame]

I did give you some examples of what it could do. CC resistant/other resistances, allowing it to get to weak spots easier because the target can't reliably get the acro away, without sheer damage, that the acro, at least our rather sturdy one, could probably handle.

See the rex headbutt. Rex does that to giga, giga gets dizzy. Rex does that to acro, acro just keeps going because it did nothing.

[tall hearth]

Head and neck are always going to be a sweet spot, for almost every animal. It's how it takes down its prey that matters.

How do you want acro to play? What abilities do you want it to have instead? Where do you want on another animals body for its attacks to be specialized for?

Before the acro concept, I was hoping for it to be downsized a little and be a mid tier bully.

[unreal ridge]

how i think acro should play is to revert back to its old playstyle as the fastest apex

given that the game is going for a more fast paced action packed combat system, I think it would be nice for acro to have a leg up on the rest of the competition, using speed to take prey away from or take down large slow prey

[unreal ridge]

that is exactly what i was hoping for too

they just made it too big and too generalized for a playstyle

[tall hearth]

I wanted it to grab mis tiers and shake them to death like a dog. It didnt happen, but we got an entirely different playstyle that I'm down for.

[unreal ridge]

but again what you said was rex's playstyle

to grab and shake prey too death, or at least it was planned by the devs

[tall hearth]

Rex will not choke animals to death based on concept art.

[unreal ridge]

i was referring to this

[tall hearth]

I think what you're thinking of is the death animations the devs talked about.

[unreal ridge]

hold on let me find the dev log where they talk about it

[tall hearth]

Like a little skippable cutscene when you die that shows you being ripped apart, eaten alive, or killed in some other brutal manner.

[faint folio]

Again there's nothing that says it won't be the fastest apex? And really it doesn't say anything about how it got the trike down-- just that it did, and it hunts like a big cat-- choking prey to death

[icy lion]

Acro's status of "fastest apex" was caused by it being scaled oddly and then never balanced because it was a sandbox dino iirc

[unreal ridge]

well now it being the fastest apex would be completely unbalanced

[faint folio]

But big cats generally speaking are pretty dang fast

[unreal ridge]

well you need to take into account this is a multi ton apex predator

[faint folio]

Cheetahs in particular kill by strangulation -- tripping their prey and then going for a chokehold. Perhaps this is part of the intended playstyle?

[tall hearth]

Using it's own weight to stumble prey to get a sweet spot chokehold. Let's hope, hes fatcro for a reason lol

[unreal ridge]

actually, acro being able to trip prey to get them into a weak stance would be a good play style

such as grabbing a hind leg to make prey fall

also in the top right corner you can see rex throwing a baryonyx around like it owes the rex money

[tall hearth]

Which is a different playstyle than just choking an animal to death.

Like you were complaining about

[unreal ridge]

im just saying its a cheap way to do it

but fine

lets say that going for the most widely used weakspot is specialization

[faint folio]

Lol-- I'm picturing a rex debt collector now 😂 but thanks for the concept art! It's really cool

[unreal ridge]

how do other creatures escape or prevent acro from doing this?

would they need to be in groups, preventing large creatures from being solo?

or would it be like bucking?

[faint folio]

Thrash I suppose. Kicks are the number one reason lions get hurt during a hunt, and most animals can kick in front of them

So like bucking

[unreal ridge]

wouldn't that make the problem worse?

[faint folio]

Even though bucking needs a buff atm

[unreal ridge]

its like an arrow head, the more you move the more it slices

[faint folio]

Not for chokers. Those teeth are designed to pin, not slice

[unreal ridge]

also make sure not to think of herbivores as delicate

[cyan flame]

Giga would have been the fastest apex back in prog if I recall correctly.

[unreal ridge]

even a giraffe can smash open a lions head

considering that sauropods should be able to one shot most creatures

[faint folio]

Yep. Like I said. Avoid kicking

[unreal ridge]

also given the current utahraptor latch problem how would we stop acro from just snapping onto heavily armored dinosaurs necks?

such as trike which literally has a shield on its face to prevent this

[cyan flame]

You bite from behind the frill?

Or maybe acro can shove a trike over or something :p

[unreal ridge]

what in the lords name did you just say

shove over a triceratops?

a quadrupedal multi ton creature with a wide base

[cyan flame]

Hey, we have omnis pouncing heads and ending up on sides, just saying, game does what it wants at times xD

[faint folio]

Honestly it would be cool if choking took on a more interactive mechanic than bucking-- imagine if herbivores got a "thrash" option for each body part-- left front, right front, left hind, right hind, head, and tail. The goal is to knock the socks out of grappling predator, and the predator needs to move to dodge or let go. If it takes X amount of damage it automatically lets go

[tall hearth]

If the trike and acro are similar weights, acro could attempt to use it's own body weight to smother and choke another dino.

[cyan flame]

We also have a spino capable of flipping an anky over, so you know

But nah, I just imagine the acro can just take a few hits, prevent any CC, and thus get to the right position to bite down for a chokehold. Nothing really strange.

[unreal ridge]

if we go off real world estimates trike has a very big weight difference

and seeing how acro was beefed up in game we'll give it an extra 2 tons
but still would not be able to knock over triceratops

triceratop's skull alone is 3,000 pounds

the largest one was 8 feet long

(that is skull length btw)

[faint folio]

To be fair, it is presumably being knocked into by another multi ton animal moving at a pretty decent speed. And like... Steer wrestling is a thing. Grab a cow by the horns and twist their head hard enough and they will land on their side, even though cattle do outweigh humans. Actually, isn't that also basically a principle of jiu jitsu or something?

[unreal ridge]

i also dont think triceratops would allow this abuse to happen to it

[tall hearth]

Not until it starts choking thr animal. Animals getting choked get weaker the longer they're choked. Cama isnt immediately on the ground when acro starts biting its neck, so it was still standing up to a point. There may be a "point of no return" during the chokehold that players must try their absolute hardest not to get to.

[unreal ridge]

I realize the point of no return, but there still should be a way to get them off of you

[tall hearth]

Which I'm sure there will be

[faint folio]

I mean... I doubt the cattle or martial artists fighters really want to allow it either, but it still happens

[unreal ridge]

in that drawing cama could walk backwards as it already appears to have the acro on its toe tips, and when it inevitably stumbles, kick him while hes down

[faint folio]

Again... Thrashing. Jerk hard enough and you'll knock your opponents grip lose

[cyan flame]

@unreal ridgeI don't know if real life trike was quite as big as you think. I've heard everything from 5-10T basically. So not sure how it would be.

[unreal ridge]

Again, thrashing causes more injury, evening pinning teeth rip flesh off when pull off violently

[tall hearth]

Dinos cant walk backwards in the game, who knows if the devs will allow it either. If walking backwards is a direct counter to being choked though, choking another player wouldn't be effective period.

[faint folio]

True but surface scratches vs choking to death... I'll take the bleed

Assuming it even does bleed, which... Even though it's realistic, it doesn't mean it would be coded that way in game

[tepid gate]

the biggest Triceratops that's confirmed is apparently around 8t(and there's an even bigger T.albertensis that is easily 9t)

There's no goddamn way Acro is tossing around that thing in general

[cyan flame]

Noted! Will keep that in mind.

[tepid gate]

but tbh - Acro isn't tossing around even a 5t Triceratops

that's just ridiculous

then again we are seemingly getting an Anky-tossing Spino so anything is possible at this point

[cyan flame]

I mean, game wise, I'd not discount much :p

[tall hearth]

Yes but in concept it's not tossing at all. Its choking and looks to be pinning with it's own weight.

[tepid gate]

Alright explain to me then

[unreal ridge]

who cares any more

its a virtual dinosaur game

[tepid gate]

how that Triceratops ended up on its back with Acro's jaws around its throat?

[unreal ridge]

Im going to bed now

wish yall the best of luck in your endeavors

[tall hearth]

It probably got a good position and bit down on its throat, and was unable to shake it off so it choked/is choking to death

[tepid gate]

yes - in that case this good position would've been below the quadrupedal Triceratops

[faint folio]

How much does an acro way? Genuinely curious about the relative size here

[tall hearth]

Idk if you want me to say it jumped from a tree or flew behind trike

[tepid gate]

5.4 or 5.8t I'm not sure which estimate is more up to date

I think 5.8t is the more recent one

[faint folio]

Gotcha, so going with that

[tepid gate]

more like dug its way through the ground and attacked Triceratops dugtrio style or something

[tall hearth]

Not in this case. It needs to wrap its jaws around the throat and crush upwards. Standing to the side means it can get an ideal hold on its throat and crush upwards using its jaw. There is no crushing upwards from being under it. That would be more so throat slashing.

[tepid gate]

Yea no, look at how low to the ground a throat of a Triceratops actually is

here you have a comparison with a T.rex imagine that's an Acro:

[tall hearth]

Ok acro Danny phantom styled turned into a ghost to get a good hold idk

[tepid gate]

How do you imagine Acro/T.rex grabbing Trike by a throat?

They are way too tall and would have to crawl on the ground to do that

[faint folio]

I think it's more like steer wrestling. Get a good grip on the neck and then apply torque and you can pretty effectively knock a larger creature on its butt. The weight ratio of steer wrestler to the steer being wrestled is anywhere from 1.5 to 3.6. so a 5.8t/10t would be a ratio of a little under 2, which should be possible I think

[tepid gate]

either that or Trike decided to walk upwards bipedally for Acro to be able to do that

[tepid gate]

It's not about knocking it on the ground, Acro could potentially/maybe/perhaps do that(although not really, it's a Carch after all but w/e game-logic or something), the issue is how in the world do you wrap your jaws around something so low to the ground and protected by both a frill and a pair of pointysticks when you're a theropod?

Theropods are taller than ceratopsids

getting around a throat of an animal that's so much lower to the ground would be extremely difficult if not outright impossible as you'd have to crouch down for your jaws to even get to Trike's throat

[faint folio]

Presumably, knock it on its butt so that the pesky frill is out of the way, and it has limited mobility to use those pointy sticks, and then lean down, grab the exposed throat and choke it

[tepid gate]

I mean I guess if Trike sat down like a prairie dog or something...? Maybe it could be done

I'm not sure if Triceratops could actually do that but

[faint folio]

I mean like in the drawing-- flat on its side

Trike probably isn't going to cooperate with a predator trying to eat it if it has the choicd

[tepid gate]

but the Trike would first have to be flat on its side for Acro to be able to do that. I'm assuming that Trike is flat on its side because of what Acro did to it

Ok, I think we're reading too much into it I guess I will just say that I will have to see it in the game because I just don't see it working without the models completely clipping through one another

it's a cool picture

[faint folio]

Again-- steer wrestling. The art of taking a larger, quadruped animal with pointy sticks on its head and laying it flat on its side and immobilizing it

[tepid gate]

but I don't see it working in the game

[tall hearth]

Acro may be a bit shorter than the rex in the image, so it may have been able to bend down less than rex without sacrificingwhere its center of mass is. A lot of factors could come into play. The trike may have been lying down. It may have been eating or drinking, and with the camera lock the devs talked about may not have have even seen the acro coming. Same with the cama. They're definitely not 2 friends practicing in death match and the trike is like "see if you can get behind me". It was most likely a surprise attack, or even the acro out maneuvered the less skilled player and got the chokehold.

[tepid gate]

It isn't about bending down, the issue is how do you grab the base of Trike's throat without crawling below it?

Cama is ez, it's tall

its neck is right there for grabbing

[tall hearth]

Bending down?

[tepid gate]

bending down doesn't get you below the Trike, you could maybe get the side of its neck

not its throat

also - am in game will respond later

[tall hearth]

The end/middle of its jaw is all it needs to choke the animal. We're not talking about choking it with the back of the jaw. Acro looks like it has a long jaw designed for choking. All it needs is to bend down and go for the neck sideways, to squeeze and crush upwards on its throat. With its mouth able to open wide it makes it a lot easier to get to the right area. At that point is just about where it bites down then. Too far forward, you miss the ideal chokehold and the trike shakes it off and stabs acro. Too far back, and acro just bites the neck fat/muscles instead.

[tall hearth]

I've been at work typing between customers lol, you good dude

[tepid gate]

I guess I just don't see how it could catch Trike by the throat like this without Trike lying flat on its side/back which is... not exactly how I'd imagine this animal spending its free time?

back of the neck behind the frill? Sure, that'd be doable but this - I don't really see this happening

as I said I will have to see it in the game to believe it

because this doesn't look like something doable without both models clipping through one another awfully

[tall hearth]

Maybe acro did a couple quick micro adjustments when it was moving towards the ground.

When zoomed it it looks like it has small cuts near acros jaw too.

Unless acro is adjusting itself mid choke then yeah I dont see it being possible. Maybe that's also an aspect to acros gameplay

[tepid gate]

yea maybe it's just readjusting or something

as I said - we will have to wait until its in the game

[tall hearth]

High skill, high reward. Apexes arent gonna be playables just anyone can pick up and be good with (I hope)

Which I'm very excited for lol

[faint folio]

Seriously, look up the "sport" of steer wrestling (it's dubious animal welfare, but I'm guessing in the case of a predator looking for dinner, it wouldn't care). I'm guessing acro does something similar- grabs the head/neck, twists to knock the prey down on its side, then goes for the chokehold before it's prey can get up.

[pastel beacon]

<@&505047238674874368> Sorry for the @ mention but I feel this must be addressed. I found a post from 2019 saying the same thing, but it needs to come up again. I'll be posting this in discussion and general feedback. Anyway, here goes...

There are NOT enough official server admins to take care of the constant needs and demands of the NA servers. I can't speak for other servers because I don't play there, but it has become a real problem here. Constantly there are hackers and stuck players who need help, and very rarely are there any admins available to assist these players. I can count on my own hands how many times I've actually seen a player helped for a hacker, and every single time it was Krow. Concurrently, I have personally NEVER seen a player helped who is stuck. A recurring topic I see is something along the lines of "It's been a week of calling for help and I still haven't received it". I don't know the details behind the admission or application requirements but I can personally tell you that there are more than a thousand people who play this game regularly. There would be countless applicants if you were to even open a single admin slot, myself included who would perform the duties of an admin voluntarily, and without pay. The player-base is much too large for three-four people to assist everyone, as is evidenced by the lack of assistance available to the players.

Again, I'm sorry for the @ mention but I feel like the players at a minimum deserve an explanation to the lack of assistance available. Please either DM me or reply with an @ mention in "General-Feedback-Discussion". Thank you for your time.

[terse hornet]

I understand the frustration. The admins are all volunteers so are not available 24/7. We spend the majority of our time prioritizing watching for hackers because that is our main job. Also consider, the public can't see what the admins are doing so you don't necessarily know how active we are. We do respond to hacker reports and those take priority over unstucking people. We unstuck people as a courtesy and only if they're stuck because of an issue with the game, not because they fell down a cliff or tried rock climbing and are now stuck between a rock and a hard place.
Personally, most of the "admin please unstuck" pings happen while I'm at work irl. And the vast majority of the time if I get home and dm people who have pinged while I was at work, I don't get a response or when they do reply it's that they've already died and why didn't I help them sooner.

All that being said, tldr we do catch hackers, the process isn't as simple as banning because someone said X is hacking. Unstucking is a courtesy and does not take priority over our other duties. We definitely need more admins and you can apply following the link at the bottom of #rules-and-info (must be 18+)

[pastel beacon]

I understand your perspective, and I also understand that you can't be available all the time. Which is why I'm suggesting opening a small number of admin spots so players can have a heightened gameplay experience. I don't know who that actually goes through, either a dev or a head admin

[icy lion]

As Crin said, our applications are always open

[pastel beacon]

Location?

[icy lion]

As Crin also said, it's in #rules-and-info

[pastel beacon]

Thank you

[uneven mist]

“I miss the old isle” brother in crist you can still play legacy if that’s what you want

And what’s there to miss with u4. That was an unbalanced hell

[fossil pagoda]

I am surprise all admins are volunteers. Is that the standard procedure in other games as well? I though that admin the servers was maybe part of the job of a couple of employees

[grave dagger]

Unless they mean progression isle , I sometimes miss progression ngl

[uneven mist]

Progression was a hit and miss for me

[grave dagger]

Same, some of the trees weren't that interesting such as the rex tree, but others i enjoyed such as the giga and spino tree

I still miss it though, was fun on those realism servers

[queen ember]

I understand admins can’t always be here to unstuck people (cause they have life’s outside being admins) so a unstuck button would be best

[uneven mist]

But the question is, how can they make an unstuck button

[crystal oasis]

Lets make small things not dmg big things

Carnos shouldn't dmg a full grown stego or deino

I dont understand why people give this feedback, honestly lol

[queen ember]

My idea was a timer of like 5 minutes if you get attacked the timer is reset to prevent any sort of trolling and the unstuck would move you in a small radius of land near you. Of course they would have to code the ground somehow to prevent going onto rocks/trees and such

It would take a little bit of coding but could end up helping the game so much

[small anchor]

xD

[burnt bone]

That’s mostly because it’s hard for those things to reach a ptera, so if the ptera is good enough and persistent, it can kill them without any real counter-play. So their solution is to just make pt unable to hurt them. Personally, I’d just make pt’s hurtbox go down further so that it can be hit in return, and maybe increase the verticality in certain moves if it isn’t enough.

[crystal oasis]

For that they should fix hit boxes to start with, solution is not make them not do dmg for sure

[fossil pagoda]

I can't imagine a ptera killing a fully grown stego no matter how good the player is. To me it would be impossible anyway, not only because of my skill but also because of the fps drops that I often get, specially when moving fast as a ptera 🤣

[crystal oasis]

Not impossible, just would take a lot of time

[burnt bone]

Plus, the stego can log much before the pt can kill it. But it’s still annoying that a sky rat has the ability to do it because there is basically no counter.

[crystal oasis]

There is counter, go take cover

[cyan flame]

Not proper counter. Just add an ability to hit upwards with attacks and there you go, problem solved.

[urban flax]

@drifting rose Timezones

[drifting rose]

which is why they should announce before they will send out the stress test announcement and possiblly be able to join the stress test application

[urban flax]

I agree with that but the "maybe a good time would be when everyone is either out of work so at like 5-10 pm" is irrelevant since not everyone is in the same timezone

[drifting rose]

well i didnt know how to work around timezones so i ignored it

other than timezones the times i suggested are good

[faint folio]

Well, honestly they probably ARE opening applications at reasonable times... Just not in your time zone. 3am in the US is like 8-9am in Europe. Afternoon in Asia. Evening in Australia

[feral solstice]

Wait so what’s the problem?

Didn’t they open the stress test applications for like a couple days? Or…

[drifting rose]

yes but if ur last u have a less likely chance to be accepted bc they have a limit of how many testers are needed

[urban flax]

@plush vault If humans do not pose a threat even to a utah they will have no chance of survival at all

Isle players don't back off after being slowed down or stunned for a few seconds, they only back off if they are at risk of dying

[plush vault]

I know that, I'm not saying make them completely defenseless, I just don't think they should be able to kill everything, which I was going to say, but the word limit cut me off

I do think that they should be able to kill a Utah fairly easily

[urban flax]

There is a wide gap between killing everything on sight and not being able to kill a utah

A Utah should be a fair match against a decently armed human
And actually, even if it's easy af for a human to kill a utah it's never gonna be human-sided
Because one pounce will kill them instantly

[plush vault]

I agree. Most of what I was talking about was meant for larger dinosuars, I feel anything around the size of a Utah should be able to be killed fairly easily if the dinosuar isn't careful. What I was trying to convey however, is I don't think that should be the main goal for the humans

[urban flax]

Of course not, and I don't think humans should be a threat to something the size of a suchomimus anyways, unless there's several of them, they are well armed, and that the sucho doesn't decide to just run away while it can.

But humans and dinos should be mutually afraid of each other

[plush vault]

Mhm, I agree with that

[urban flax]

@rocky aspen I'm pretty sure para is planned to be able to sprint
Just like every other creature

[wintry agate]

love what you've done with the server restarts guys. bravo. truly groundbreaking. really top shelf end user experience work there

[tepid gate]

wdym?

[faint folio]

He's probably talking about how officials restart with no warning. You either know the restart time and set an alarm for it, or you don't and have a ton of growth deleted

[tepid gate]

oh yea there was something like that - i remember going quite a bit back with some animal one time when the servers restarted

there definitely should be some automatic announcements in the game warning people about that

[faint folio]

@plush vault I think it's very hard to predict how humans will affect balance. I think (hope) it will be like with polar bears and grizzly bears-- you have to have a large caliber hunting rifle, because anything less will not drop the bear even if shot. (And Utah's are polar bear sized, apparently, so...). Larger caliber guns and ammo should be EXTREMELY rare, to discourage use, and should still probably use a decent amount of ammo to kill something like a sucho or rex.

I do like the idea of most/all quests being non-lethal-- kinda gives JP vibes and also fits the whole AE/experiment vibe of the place while discouraging murder-happy behavior by severely limiting access to high damage weaponry. Maybe a limited number of high damage weapons that spawn on the map at any given time-- killing a human respawns any high damage weaponry in their inventory, ideally not in predictable places

Maybe base raids have a chance to damage high damage weaponry and force a respawn or something too-- need to have some kind of mechanic to prevent a megapack from stockpiling all the good gear too

Also, as they are aiming for a horror game, I think there's some merit in making apexes difficult, but not entirely impossible to kill-- part of the fear factor with games like phasmophobia is that you have to run or hide, and can't just defeat the ghost easily

[sage yew]

@somber wraith "Ok so nobody likes the idea of locking the camera during eating, drinking, and other actions."

I actually like that Idea. Eating and drinking should make you vulnerable, but instead gives you perfect 360° view without telling others where you're actually looking and therefore you'll get an improved vision while eating, drinking - that feels totally wrong

of course no one likes the Idea of feeling weak and vulnerable, but that's the main goal of a survival game and an important aspect of horror

[tepid gate]

Same, I also like that idea

[proud coral]

The camera lock even has potential to vary between species, allowing certain ones to utilize it differently. For example; Para could be given horse vision and see almost all around itself (except directly behind) whereas something like Utah/Omni may have less FoV due to it's more binocular eyes (I think it has em at least but you get the idea)

[proud coral]

If a cannibal literally cannot eat their own species, then it's not really a cannibal....

[rocky aspen]

Uhhhh nooo.. in the video it wasn't the fact that it could sprint it was a running stomp. Slamming down its hooves to trample things but youd have to press a button to do it.

[tall hearth]

i put an idea kinda like that in general feedback for maia awhile ago. maia just seems like it'd be better suited tbh.

[urban flax]

But this kind of ability is more fit for a predator... The ones who actively need to chase down something and kill it at the same time. On the other hand I think the implementation of trample damage will accomplish exactly that.

[proven river]

There's a difference in making smth not OP and destroying its viability completely

[limber hull]

half stegos tail swing damage (this actually could save stego from being op)

yea, it'd make it literal trash tier

[proven river]

^

[limber hull]

this stego nerf would mean it'd get trashed on by deino and struggle against carnos

why would you want this

[proven river]

If you're not good just ✨don't fight stegos✨

Besides, nothing in the roster atm is specifically designed for stego killin, people think deino is meant to contend with stego because it's the only other apex, that is literally untrue

Apart from maybe Omni

[limber hull]

people sleep on omni

[urban flax]

eat grass and die

[last lily]

Well you know what they say, the grass is always greener on the other side

[urban flax]

And the dead never speak

[glossy sierra]

Just get better lmfao

Ive seen a solo carno kill 3 stegos at once

When something happens in the game it should always be YOUR fault. You could've always done something to not make that mistake. Whether that would be not taking the fight, training more for the fight (no sandbox but lets say we have one), or being more strategic. There's always something you could've done.

[proven river]

Body guarding? Mixpacking? Are those your fault?

[proven river]

Also godamn

[lapis swallow]

@safe hearth we already have a diablo concept

[safe hearth]

dont know it

[safe hearth]

oh found it thx

[jagged jewel]

those were some bad stegos

[rocky aspen]

Predators don't have four legs

[urban flax]

I meant an ability that allows you to attack forward while sprinting...

[wintry agate]

bingo

[icy lion]

@topaz pendant Optimization is worked on constantly, but an entirely focused effort cannot be done until the game is more complete, as is true for every game. This is borderline an ETA question and we don't permit that

[rocky aspen]

For herbivores I think that they rely a lot on stamina. Tenonto has claws and a flexible fail to help defend itself while Para and cory could use its hooves to trample down things that it realistically shouldn't need to run from. If a para uses stamina to trample a pack of Utah's than thatll be easier for the other Utah's to outstam the para and kill it inevitably. So I think it's a good idea.

[sharp wraith]

Evrima is full of bs. :)

https://tenor.com/view/spit-gif-22259405

[urban flax]

please keep your salt out of here

[uneven mist]

https://tenor.com/view/oh-no-oh-no-anyway-gif-18887547

[sharp wraith]

just stating my opinion <3

[lapis swallow]

Elaborate why it is like that. I know that frames n stuff is bad, but what else?

[sharp wraith]

just in general the games awful, idk how else to explain 🤷‍♀️

[lapis swallow]

Explain it

[sharp wraith]

u missed where i said i dont know how to explain

[uneven mist]

I kinda agree, currently it’s not really that good, better than before but not that good but also better than other Dino games currently

[sharp wraith]

Legacy over Evrima 100% all they had to do is make it look a little more realistic

[lapis swallow]

Turnbased combat . . .

Funny italian noodle code . . .

[urban flax]

turn based combat can be awesome

[lapis swallow]

How

[sharp wraith]

the turning was god awful sometimes but all they had to do is change some sh round

[uneven mist]

Legacy is worse, it’s shite compared to evrima and the only thing legacy is better than evrima is the map, performance and roster (even tho no one in the roster is unique except 2 and most are the same but with different stats)

[urban flax]

Literally any tactics game

[lapis swallow]

Who is unique in legacys roster?

[sharp wraith]

i disagree but u have ur own opinion

[uneven mist]

Rex, dilo and I forgot dryo

[lapis swallow]

True

[uneven mist]

Well yeah we all have our own opinion, I have mine and you have yours

[lapis swallow]

Give examples please (I cant think of one lol)

[sharp wraith]

thats what i said- 🤣

[uneven mist]

Yes like I said

[sharp wraith]

https://tenor.com/view/smh-laugh-gif-19892494

[uneven mist]

[urban flax]

XCOM, Darkest Dungeon, Disgaea, Fire Emblem, Atlas Reactor...
My remark was originally a joke, but are you seriously telling me you don't know tactics games ?

[lapis swallow]

I do not know tactics games

[urban flax]

Ok go try some
Now

[feral solstice]

Honestly the best method I know to make nesting happen more often is by implementing a temporary static growth boost that’s given until a certain point in your growth, that stacks with your diet system growth.
So if the nesting growth boost is 15-20%, that means if you have a perfect diet, your growth boost is at 135-140%. (15 or 20% + 120%)

In addition to this, scrap the whole “diet system and perk system” requirements for elders, and just implement a checklist of things your creature likes to do that must be checked off in order to enter the elder growth stage.
Nesting and raising your offspring until they are a subadult would encourage people to nest more.

However there are definitely other QoL balance changes that will make nesting easier and less tedious.

[runic steppe]

it has been confirmed that cera is not coming with gore humans are the playable slated for up6

[clever thorn]

We dont even have many Playable Dinos that are not useless and they want to add Humans already. Just why

[limber hull]

"playable dinos that are not useless"

what the hell does this even mean

[cyan flame]

What playables do you find useless, and for that matter, useless in what way?

[clever thorn]

Dryo, Hypsi, Pteranodon. I mean you wouldnt rly notice if they are there or not. Thats my point of Useless.

[proud coral]

All 3 of those have excellent survivability though, Ptera especially. And considering the goal is to survive, they're far from useless

[limber hull]

thats not useless tho

an animal does not need to be extremely big and attention grabbing to be useful

[proud coral]

Granted, non-combat dinos do need a bit more to do since PvE essentially doesn't exist properly yet, but that's somewhat intended for the time being.

PvP first is better than PvE first basically

And I know nesting exists, but there's no real incentive for it currently. Especially when you can just use regional spawning.

[barren zephyr]

@random hazel OMG I LOVE YOUR SUGGESTION

[clever thorn]

But still 9 Dinos for a Dino Survival Game. Hm. Its not rly the time to add Humans in my Opinion but we will see how that goes shall we.

[sage yew]

I'm maybe alone with that opinion, but more dinos are not a solution to anything. Key features, like an adequate scent mechanics, dynamic environment interactions, proper collisions (navigating over rocky terrain looks sometimes like a dino had a seizure) , hitbox optimisation, dynamic fighting (like biting into the neck and not just plowing through), camera optimisation and many more features feel more like placeholders or missing in general...9 dinos are definitely enough for now, till more content gets developed. What do I want with dozens of dinos, if gameplay feels just promising in future development, but can't deliver it. Adding humans is needed at some point, to geather information on how it should work out at the end, like they did with aquatic and flying, probably just to figure out how people will actually use it, that's maybe the reason why we got only one example per category

[clever thorn]

Hm good Point. But still its kinda weird having a Dino Game without many Dinos. I mean ofc Mechanics and Performance before everything else but even there nothing is happening or nothing that we notice. But having no new Dino in a Dino game since a year but teasing the Players with Videos of Troodon or Cerato is just wrong. I mean the Video with the Cerato is 8 MOnths old. I mean why didnt they release the Video 2 Months before the Release of a new playable and not almost a full Year and stop talking about it. And all around the Updates have to be faster and not like in this Year only one Update. I thought the Diet Update was one of the Longest Updates but i was wrong every other Update took almost the same time. I know they want it to be perfect but most of the Time it wasnt. I mean 6 Months is a very long time and to get one Update per Year or mabey but just mabey 2 isnt enough for this Game. Same with the Bug fixes. Im just saying the Safe logg Bug. It was a Huge Problem but it still took around 2 or 3 Months to fix it because they wanted to fix it with the Update 4. And thats a Huge problem to wait so long for such a horrible Bug to be fixed at least in my Eyes. I want this game to succed but if it stays at this Development Speed its going to be a downfall. Some Players expect to play a nice T rex or Acro or Trike in the Future. But when is that Future going to be if everything stays the same. 4 Years? 6 Years? This Game already has been out for 3 Years. But this is only my Opinion and everybody has his own but im staying to my Opinion. I would be happy if i see that im Wrong but right now i dont think that im going to be wrong.

[proven river]

Gliding Velociraptor

[random hazel]

thanks

[quiet yacht]

Do u guys think it would be possible to make one discord writing channel where it says «report hacking» because it is spaaaamming in those «evirma» servers channels here. And maybe make for an example: eu1 channel, eu2, channel etc

[agile roost]

#general-feedback message

Can you please elaborate?

[runic steppe]

another thing to consider is they have to rework every single dino added before a created mechanic to make it work with said mechanic. If even 20 dinos were released before say the gore update it would take twice as long for them to rework every dino to fit the mechanic. Having the foundations of the mechanics down first will presumably make releasing playables later easier. They dont have to rerig all the dinos over and over again cause they are created with this foundation in mind.

[wanton ether]

@pseudo atlas that sounds like a nightmare to code and probably out of the reach of the devs

The rivers have frogs and fish for the semi aquatics to feed on while they are growing so that’s a good compromise imo

Though i would like to be able to grab the ai animals as a deino too

[pseudo atlas]

Everything is a nightmare to code for the isle devs

[barren zephyr]

Pretty sure it's already planned, ai can eat/drink

[proud coral]

Shorter nights, while I get the desire for them, can end up backfiring. Especially when nocturnals arrive. But I will agree that night needs some more benefits/interesting traits to make it feel nicer to deal with. Right now, everything is at an equal disadvantage at night due to NV being the same across the board and that's it. Night does nothing else.

B u t in the future, we'll have nocturnal creatures as well as varying NV across species to help spice it up. And if you have nights be shorter, then those aspects don't really have as much of an impact then. Imagine only being able to play Dilo at it's peak for 15 minutes

[tall hearth]

exactly. i believe nights are 30 mins right now right? i feel like thats a fair amount. its the day i feel should be decreased. if both night and day were changed to 35 mins each, and dawn and dusk last between 5 and 10 mins(daytime including the period for dusk would total up to 45 mins, and vice versa for night+dawn), i feel like that would be ideal. that with some general lighting improvements and i feel like it'd be perfect. up to 10 mins of preparation for darkness for diurnal animals and 10 mins of prep period for nocturnal animals.

[slender prism]

https://tenor.com/view/ian-malcolm-jeff-goldblum-jurassic-park-dinosaur-tour-tv-gif-16496125

[clever thorn]

@cobalt prism Bro the Game doesnt already run smooth on the PC with 30 Series Graphics Card. How do you expect that the Game wont blow up your Console 😄

[cyan flame]

@worthy tangleWhat do you mean?

[worthy tangle]

Because it will be almost impossible to escape from someone after an attack if there is no dense vegetation nearby

And after a long wait, it will be impossible to immediately conduct a good attack

And after a long chase*

[cyan flame]

Yes, if you've used your pounce, but that's part of being a pack hunter playable. If you're going at it alone, stick to hunting things you can take down with pin or that are otherwise not capable of following you very well, pachy comes to mind with how bad it's bleed handling is, even carno at this point could be a viable target unless you're outright in the open. But that's part of planning your attack I'd say, to have an escape plan ready.

And well, you're not really a "run them down" predator, I don't think. You do use endurance, but more so in the sense of bleeding something and attrition it down, rather than chase it for a long period. Especially since bleed tends to make running away a terrible idea for the target.

[worthy tangle]

You'll run out of stamina before your pursuer runs out of blood.

Which makes hunting alone almost impossible, unless of course the opponent is playing well

[cyan flame]

Depends on what you're after I think. Pachy and carno bleed quite a lot. And if you're solo, then pachy is about the size you should go after at most, more or less.

[worthy tangle]

and with one attack, it will not be possible to inflict fatal bleeding on carnot, even if he does not use E and runs to full stamina

[cyan flame]

So if you are alone, then yes, your hunting will be limited, but again, that's part of being a pack hunter. A solo omni isn't really meant to go up against bigger things, though you can handle pachy I'm quite sure.

[urban flax]

Although pachy is larger and stronger than utah...

[cyan flame]

Maybe not lethal bleed, but you will most certainly make the carno feel it. Also a solo omni vs a carno is not a matchup that should be in the omnis favour at all.

[worthy tangle]

Karno will not die if Yuta carries out an attack at full endurance, provided that Karno does not throw you off and runs at full endurance

[cyan flame]

"larger" by 50 points. And "stronger" is, well, that depends a bit on what you mean with that. Overall, omni has the advantage.

[urban flax]

That is normal

[cyan flame]

Well no, but again, you're not meant to go after a carno solo. If you're on your own and you see a carno, you run the other direction.

I did say pachy is about the size for a solo omni if you want to hunt, or dryo more likely. Dryos you will kill if you get a pin on them, and pachy is doable, especially since it has to worry about it's bleed if it goes on the offensive after being pounced.

[worthy tangle]

Provided that Carnot does not have much less stamina than Utah, then it is not possible to escape in an open field

[cyan flame]

If you have full stamina as well, you can juke the carno and it'll run out of steam before you do I'm pretty sure. But that also makes sense, carno is an open plains hunter, it's where it runs things down.

But last I checked, omni can run quite well, so if you're in the open, you see the carno coming at you, you should be doing quite fine unless you're low on stam. And you are agile enough to juke a carno, charge or no charge, unless ping or fps or something ruins your day (which can happen, but thats a performance issue so).

[uneven mist]

@near cairn acro in his concept is shown being able to strangle and hold a chokehold on its prey

[worthy tangle]

In general, I have a feeling that if Karno and Utah run to full stamina, Karno will eventually run further because of the speed

[cyan flame]

I don't think so honestly, but it's possible. But then you're basically just running in a straight line. Which... is kind of not how you evade a carno.

[near cairn]

Yeah I was sort of responding to this, it would be nice if more than acro could do it. It makes sense for a few dinosaurs to be able to within their size class (rex and trike, carno and teno, allo and stego, ceras or sub apexes and various juvis)

[cyan flame]

Most of those have other ways to hunt and kill, so not sure on that.

[uneven mist]

The only animals that I kinda could see doing that too would be Alberto and carno but they don’t really need it, allo uses its claws and bleed to kill and cera just it’s jaws and scavenge

[cyan flame]

I don't really see rex doing it when it can just.. crunch down. Carno charges, so there's that already. Alberto is kind of a smaller rex, sort of? Allo I imagine gets the grapple if anything, however that'll work.

[near cairn]

A scenario I think of is a mid sized carni getting fracted by a pachy would be avoidable if it used a grapple/alt" bite rather than a body bleed bite, but if it misses, it still has to reengage where if it did the plain bleeding bite it may have traded the hit instead.

[uneven mist]

We also have deino that relies on drowning/“suffocating” its prey

[rare fractal]

I wonder if the gameplay for that will be even remotely engaging

[uneven mist]

Hmm maybe, would prob need to knock them down to choke them

[cyan flame]

Which would fit with acro maybe

[rare fractal]

“Choking” sorta just sounds like a different way of saying “fatal finisher”

[near cairn]

Yeah, its cool on deino, Id like to see the o2 meter used on land. A water buffalo and lions fight is agonizingly drawn out and long fights are the bread and butter of the isle.

[rare fractal]

Because with how oxygen works…there wouldn’t be a dynamic generated by choking

It just kills you…

[uneven mist]

That’s how it’s currently, who knows if it will change

[rare fractal]

How would it change?

[uneven mist]

Idk I’m not a master planner

[rare fractal]

Or rather how COULD it change

[near cairn]

Nah, theres still tons of balancing to account for with stamina. Did you have to catch up to something, do you have packmates to take over for you, was the prey injured already or good diets, a skinny herbi would be easier to hold down. Are KG's ever going to be taken into affect for balancing, on and on

[rare fractal]

I just hope it’s not an input lock oneshot like deino currently functions as…cuz that’s lame as as hell

[near cairn]

Im excited to see how it plays out with acro! he's a fave. I hope it works well.

[rare fractal]

Acro deserves so much better than a win button

[uneven mist]

Yeah kinda hope they change some things with deino but idk HOW

[rare fractal]

Remove it, make it way smaller, add a dodge button that guarantees escape if you time it perfectly, or make water clearer

That’s basically it

[near cairn]

I dont know why you think choking something is an easier way to kill it than bleeding it to death. Whatever can /break/ your neck is a win button, holding you down is just holding you down and you can get away if you escape with nothing but a few seconds of wobbliness.

Have gotten away from lots of deino grabs, can confirm, its fun =

[uneven mist]

1. I kinda like deino and crocs in general so idk about that one
2. Yeah making it smaller I’d agree with
3. A dodge…idk maybe
4. Water clarity on different water places would be cool

But I think deino just needs to be super difficult to grow, needs to be more stealthy based and so on so ambushing could be more challenging and so on

[rare fractal]

Because bleed based combat in this game indicates a prolonged engagement, choking either kills you or it doesn’t, and what would be the point if it doesn’t

[near cairn]

Choking an animal that doesnt breath like a mammal takes hours

[cyan flame]

You... can not get away from a deino that has grabbed you unless the deino allows it or is just bad and does not keep it's stam full.

[near cairn]

drowning it is faster haha

[cyan flame]

There's no actual counterplay, you get grabbed, you die, unless the deino is just not competent.

[rare fractal]

I don’t know how you could consider that fun when you surviving that attack had literally nothing to do with anything you did, the deino just messed up

[cyan flame]

And I think what Fluff is concerned about is that any choking something out is going to suffer from the same issue, no counterplay if you end up there. So it's a "grab, hold down, kill"

[rare fractal]

1: I love crocs, that’s why I don’t want deino in the game, it’s biologically designed to decimate everything in this game when given the capabilities it deserves, making it a bad choice.
2: Making it smaller only mitigates the issue without really resolving it, it only reduces the pool of lungeable targets, which still leaves loads of players getting their time wasted.
3: A dodge is the best way to fix deino without changing deino next to water clarity.
4: I’d argue most water sources in the map should be clearer than entirely opaque so deino actually had to put effort into stealth, it is an apex after all.

I don’t think lunge belongs in the game, it’s an ability that’s fundamentally anti-merit, you got unlucky enough to have all of your hard earned progress deleted, congrats, you’re now feeling apathetic, dejected, and have nothing to reflect upon cuz it wasn’t even your fault.

[rare fractal]

Basically

[near cairn]

Maybe fun is the wrong word? If I had full stam and the deino didn't or wasn't totally big enough or the water was shallow (which I've survived before bc I could still breathe while being held by the deino bc shallow spot) - and I don't have to regrow my dino, I am glad to keep playing.

[uneven mist]

Issue is what Would be better than a lunge

[cyan flame]

Which is all down to the deino being bad, not choosing its target or not having its stam. Or shallow which means the deino did not plan for where to hunt.

You're kind of not seeing the point, none of the reasons you survived was down to your ability, only the lack of ability on the side of the deino.

[near cairn]

The diversity of scenarios is low right now and still not bad - it would be even better with more variety of dinos and methods of testing if your dino can overpower another or is going to get flattened trying.

[rare fractal]

Nothing in tis current state, that’s my point, deino was a bad choice, it isn’t versatile enough to be given Alt abilities, you COULD give it an engaging ability but you’d need to inject some agility into its play style, meaning making it smaller, which I’m all for, charged bite attacks being one of the main avenues but there are loads of options

[rare fractal]

You’d have to be playing teno or the deino is just so absurdly terrible and unaware of its surroundings that it tried to drown you where no water was present…teno is the only animal that can survive a lunge from a deino with less than 70ish% stam, everything else is guaranteed kill

[near cairn]

Don't play teno, it's carnos.

No its really not dude

[rare fractal]

It is, the deino that grabbed you was low on stam

Logistically that’s the only possibility

[uneven mist]

Making it smaller or making it really really difficult to grow would be one of the best decisions. We know they most likely won’t make it smaller since you know, people like BiG GaToR so making it really difficult to grow so there’s 2-4 adults in a server I see would be the other option and a dodge ability I could see work

[near cairn]

I've gotten away from deino hold on utah, pachy, and carno many times, it happens that deinos get low on stam, it will happen that things mismatch up with a choke ability. Remember when raptor packs still tri to take on stegos lol ?? If I was a hungry 70% acro with a little less than full stam and thought catching a maia or teno and holding it down was the only way to survive rather than nipping it and letting it run away, and the mechanic worked, I would try it

[cyan flame]

Because those deinos are terrible. If they had 90% or more stam you'd just die.

[rare fractal]

Again, growth difficulty only reduces the frequency of an issue that shouldn’t even exist occurring instead of resolving it…it’s like adding a sniper in the game that oneshots anything but it’s super rare, that just shouldn’t exist…it only exists for its own sake and is a detriment to the game as a whole, so it should be reworked or removed…that in my mind is the only functional Avenue to go down

[near cairn]

Wow okay pointless discussion 👋

[cyan flame]

You "get away" because the deino is dumb, simple as that. It's not down to your being good, it's down to the deino for some reason not having full stam

[cyan flame]

Are you aware of how the game works? What do I have to do to make you understand that if the deino has full stam, and it grabs you, you die. End of story, you will drown.

[rare fractal]

I don’t see it as pointless, it’s just objectively impossible for you to have escaped unless the deinos were braindead

[uneven mist]

stop making sense

[cyan flame]

You can say that "I get away" all you want, it does not change that the only reason you get away is because the deino was utterly terrible, and that's not a solid ground for designing, much less balancing mechanics and so on.

[rare fractal]

I’m sorry Warden, I know it sucks
Imagine my disappointment when U3 came out and I learned how deino functioned after being my most hyped dino for 4 years

[cyan flame]

But any deino worth its salt will not lunge you unless it has at least 90% stam, and that is more than enough to drown you, unless maybe you're a teno but that would be the only exception then.

[rare fractal]

Even then they can just bite you to death, it’s not like they can do anything if you body block them in the water

[cyan flame]

That too. As such, any "choking" mechanic working similar to deino lunge, would not be much of an interaction, because even if you make it a stam battle, it'll be "do I have enough stam to hold the grip until it dies" or not. And if you don't, or the target can somehow fight back, then why bother in the first place, you'll fail your hold.

No different to knowing you're a too tiny deino to have enough stam to drown a fully grown teno with full stam. You can grab it, and attempt, but you'll run out of stam, so why bother.

[near cairn]

so what, did you know that before they put the animal in the game and you played it ?

[rare fractal]

You’d need to add a metrics fkton of conditions for that to even be worth attempting if you wanted to add that as a combat mechanic

[rare fractal]

Well…we already have deino to go off of…

[uneven mist]

Yeah deino was also my most hyped dino in TI, I didn’t see the issue with deino until way later

[cyan flame]

I suppose we could try for something like combining lunge with something else, or combining choking with something else, so you use it more like bleed, to weaken the target somehow for another method of killing. But I'm not sure that'd be much better. And well, bleed is not an ideal comparison right now anyway because our bleed is just a health bar anyway for some reason.

[rare fractal]

I was worried but had faith they could pull it off in a balanced way….somehow they managed to not only make deino imbalanced, but it entirely circumvents the concept of balance bizarrely…like it’s essentially analogous to lightning

[rare fractal]

That’d be ideal if it is to exist at all…

Ideally combat is….well…skill expressive

[uneven mist]

I think acro would need to get the prey to low stamina to do a chokehold on it, not a grab that just depletes it’s stam but something to make it intense, interesting and skillful to do and so on

[near cairn]

i could change my general feedback to 'give us a really big apex so i can bite deinos faces already' bc the normal non braindead player would rather spend 6 hours growing alone to face tank rather than have some competition with near weight class creatures while growing up.

I felt I suggest 'choking' as a weakening mechanic that doesn't end in death until fairly and totally exhausted, like drowning and bleeding out does. We won't even know if the interaction works well until they've scripted out one so if acro is the test baby for that, then fine. It definitely does deserve to be fun.

[cyan flame]

I still think giving critters a "quick move" to stop eating/drinking and moving away/making the lunge fail would be a good idea. That plus the water clarity and maybe more ripples in the water as the deino preps for the lunge or something like that, and an observant player can notice it and react in time to get away.

[uneven mist]

@jagged holly they aren’t ready they are in development

[rare fractal]

Well I want “precise movement” (for a lack of better terms) to be a generalized mechanic, especially for the apexes it’d be borderline essentially…just look at deino

[uneven mist]

I’d love if deino would be more stealthy in its ambushes, like it needs to move slowly and if it ever fast swims it creates alot of ripples and waves and maybe a x swim to more extra slowly but it creates almost no waves when it’s resurfaced and just it’s head is visible

[cyan flame]

Except drowning doesnt work that way. Bleeding, barely does. But drowning is not "fair" at all, it's literally an on/off switch. And bleeding is just "second healthbar" so not sure on that either. And sure, acro should be fun, I'm all for that, but making a choking mechanic that kind of works similar to lunge, is a terrible idea. Also no idea what your first paragraph is about honestly.

[cyan flame]

That too, but we're probably never getting that (PoT bad game!). But a quick "stop eating/drinking and move", that could also work as a "counter" to the lunge working, might be doable.

[rare fractal]

It just runs the risk of being incredibly unengaging since…well I can’t imagine the choke to be anything but a damage phase that you basically sit through until it’s over with…like Omni’s pounce but with even less engagement…like pin

Idk…if it’s made it has to tick a LOT of boxes before it really works

[rare fractal]

I also just want sidesteps…head raises….stuff like that…

[cyan flame]

You know, the problem is that you can just lie right at the shoreline and be "invisible". If you had to "start up" by lunging from a distance, you'd have ripples and all that, so you'd need to lunge at the right time and properly ambush or attack something distracted, more like carno charge I guess or so.

[near cairn]

^ I need carno to be able to bite up already.

[uneven mist]

Yeah that could work

[cyan flame]

We need everything to be able to attack upwards, so pteras can't just peck away perfectly safe.

[rare fractal]

Everything does
Especially when nesting becomes more relevant, pteras will be properly identified as a major problem

[rare fractal]

There really just needs to be tells unless we’re entirely redesigning the animal, that’d be the best start

[cyan flame]

Combine a quick move for eating/drinking and a "startup" sort of for deino lunge, and you'll maybe get a better interaction that requires some thinking from the deino while encouraging taking the risk to drink because now there's some kind of counterplay.

[rare fractal]

Add that on top of certain bodies of water having clearer water than current rivers and I’d say you have an opportunistic ambusher with a low success rate but relatively low environmental needs to justify that….just like irl gators and crocs ironically

Who have remarkably low success rates in hunting despite being so perfectly designed

Not that irl is a great argument but it’s more of a happy little accident

[cyan flame]

Right, water clarity levels would be nice too, but maybe not as needed. But we do need some variety there, and well, ponds and lakes and stuff and not just rivers as well.

[near cairn]

Since real crocs can go a year without food without consequence, I suggested before that deino not be plagued by hunger as an adult and be allowed to set up an ambush wherever it wants - and the fun comes from that it is relatively successful but not that theres a deino in every water as it feels like on spiro currently when playing in the main territory.

[rare fractal]

I think they’re a must for the viability of other semi aquatics tbh, bary would get decimated even if it had water sense and current deino tier levels of vision

[near cairn]

I have no idea how theyre going to balance semi aquatics like bary and sucho against deino besides making them leave the water whenever they show up...

[uneven mist]

Tbh I wouldn’t mind deino would need to rely on its water sense more than vision

[cyan flame]

Semiaquatic abilites, lots of extra stam/oxygen so no drowning, and so on, maybe.

I guess that could work, also maybe make sucho big enough to not be grabbed.

But then we have deino players who seriously think they should be able to grab every single apex and all that.

[rare fractal]

I think it SHOULD be able to starve but it’d just have a REALLY long hunger timer…like current deino but maybe a bit longer since hunting other Dino’s is now harder than before…..after all deinos current hunger timer is already the longest in the game at around 90 minutes

[cyan flame]

Meanwhile I think the water sense just needs to go.

[uneven mist]

[rare fractal]

It’s current vision is already pretty bad so I wouldn’t change it past it’s current state, and I also want water sense to get a significant facelift since the current version is quite literally sonar

[rare fractal]

It either needs to go or get substantially reworked to account for the significance of the disturbance

[cyan flame]

@uneven mistYou have to admit, its a bit of a questionable thing, and at the very least, it needs variation in sensitivity based on size and speed of whatever is interacting with the water and so on.

[cyan flame]

!

[lapis swallow]

What is the topic?

[uneven mist]

Yeah currently it’s pretty awful but if it gets reworked to make it more “better” or something then I’d want deino to rely on it more, especially in murky waters

[cyan flame]

Acro getting a "chokehold" mechanic, deino/lunge being the massive problem it is and how to fix it, and right now if water sense is good or not and if it should be reworked.

More or less. I think it started with a suggestion of adding a choking mechanic for hunting, and spiraled from there.

[uneven mist]

Yeah ofc, I’d kinda also want so deino can’t detect other semi-aquatics as well as terrestrial ones

[cyan flame]

That'd be part of it yes.

[lapis swallow]

Actually, I had something in mind yesterday with deinos lungr

[rare fractal]

Mhm, it’d be neat if visually, it appeared to you as “waves” coming towards you from the general direction of the source, with faster movements increasing the frequency of the waves while the size of the animal increased the precision, with smaller animals, like juvi semi aquatics and beipi’s…just not showing up at all unless on the surface

If it needs to be further adjusted to just NOT detect semi aquatics that’s fine too…tbh I’d prefer that since it’s make ambushes even possible for groups of suchos Barry’s or possibly a spino

Even if deino can just swim away

[uneven mist]

That’d be cool yeah

[uneven mist]

Spill it

[near cairn]

Water sense and any sort of animations other than the compass are non-immersive. If the game was just lighted enough and the sounds for moving developed properly, sight and sound is enough for good play, even in and under water.

[rare fractal]

Ehh…by that logic any form of UI is unimerssive, scent is unimerssive…etc…I wouldn’t take it that far

Not getting hungry irl when your dino gets hungry is technically unimerssive

[near cairn]

UI / resources is not. The compass includes sniffing. Someone mentioned tracking with grass actually being trampled was a great suggestion.

[rare fractal]

I don’t understand the double standard then, having a compass and the ability to view your stats isn’t immersion breaking but water sense UI is?

[near cairn]

I dont like the blue indicators

[rare fractal]

Neither do I but that’s just aesthetics

[lapis swallow]

You know how the main reason for deino to be so easily sustainable is the fact that you can get food this easily and I had an idea to kinda counter it. In documentaries prey always jumps away from crocs while the isles prey just stands there. So I would suggest a backwards leap for playable that have a jump and/or high mobility while drinking. This would not fix the lunge, but make it trickier to pull off if there is a real counter to it

[cyan flame]

Could just add water sense, like the wave suggestion up there, when sniff underwater

There you go, somewhat immersive, and better water sense at that

[rare fractal]

If applied to quite literally all lungeable animals it goes a massive way to fixing lunge

[uneven mist]

Funny enough, we talked about a dodge when drinking not long ago

[rare fractal]

We can’t selectively apply it to only animals capable of jumping or it’s only putting a bandaid on a stab wound

[lapis swallow]

Would be a good idea, I think

[uneven mist]

Let only Alberto be able do dodge plz

[near cairn]

Immersion I think is whether you can take a screenshot while playing. Scent and screen bleed and the HUD do not detract from that. The past water indicator on thenyaw and the current water sense do. That's all. It will likely be reworked because I think the devs care about that already.

[rare fractal]

Alberto is the only viable animal, confirmed

[near cairn]

I'm tired, thanks for boring me of the isle before I logged on today haha/

https://tenor.com/view/yee-dinosaur-funny-animated-cute-gif-17285311

[rare fractal]

I feel like your standard for determining what is or is not immersion breaking is pretty arbitrary, I think it’s just down to aesthetic preference

[rare fractal]

But yeah see ya

[uneven mist]

ok lastly before i go, but with acros choke i I think acro would need to get the prey to low stamina to do a chokehold on it, not a grab that just depletes it’s stam but something to make it intense, interesting and skillful to do and so on

[urban flax]

I think for a proper lunge reork we would need dynamic eight interactions and comparisons, instead of just "which one is heavier than the other ?" and "is the target heavier than the threshold ?"

[rare fractal]

Ideally it functions as a finisher, and the animals it uses it against are HEAVILY balanced around being able to maintain that stamina…you’d also need to do some stat balancing for acro to make this a necessary play style, like reduced damage to emphasize wearing the target down instead of just pressuring it with attacks to kill it…it’d further cement its niche too if it was made more specialized when on the attack…obviously still pretty generalist when considering its basic survival needs

It could work, I don’t think the idea is fundamentally flawed it just needs to be executed with loads of care

[urban flax]

I'd imagine something better for the lunge would be like this : deino can lunde and grab ANY target, but it's movement speed is reduced in comparison beteen its weight and its target weight. A 8T deino grabbing a utah would barely be slowed down, while if grabbing a stego, it would move at a snail's pace. The heavier one controls the movement. So if a 5ton deino grabs a 6ton stego, it's the deino who gets dragged around (at a very slow pace)

And you build interactivity from that. Moving in that state costs a lot of stamina, and even more if the other guy is pressing the opposite key direction. So as the grabbed one you would need to try to pull in the opposite direction of the deino to waste its stam. As the deino, you'd need to change direction to not waste your entire stam, or stop pulling altogether so your prey wastes its stam for nothing, like in a lot of fishing games.

[rare fractal]

Honestly that doesn’t fix almost any of lunges issues as a mechanic because it doesn’t effect lunges difficulty in landing, which is the reason why it’s so oppressive to the animals that ARE in the lunge range, making the speed at which the deino moves vary by the weight of the target is almost entirely aesthetic QOL since deino doesn’t need to really go anywhere once a target is grabbed aside from turning around to drown them…which if it’s within the weight limit for pulling it simply will, and if not it simply won’t, with the grey area of “it can pull but it pulls slowly” basically being the same as the other two depending on the animal but with extra steps…the outcome is still guaranteed

[uneven mist]

yeah being able to normaly kill things like teno sized animals with its bites but things acro sized a bit smaller and larger up it would need to choke it to kill it

[urban flax]

It's already better than the on/off mechanic than lunge currently is
4 tons ? It's okay you can sprint with it. 4.1 tons ? Hell nah you can't touch this.

[rare fractal]

Yep exactly, and even then it shouldn’t be fast enough to catch a teno…but I know what you mean

[uneven mist]

but what animal would acro need to start to choke prey? alberto? or higher/lower?

[urban flax]

Also locational lunge and pounce pls... Like you can only grab a stego by the head or legs, or a trike by the legs or tail...

[rare fractal]

It is absolutely better but only really in an aesthetic context, the animals upwards of the lunge range will still always escape unless there is more than one deino….which is not at all what deino should be balanced around….like id rather not facilitate it being a more effective large game hunter in pairs without simultaneously reducing its effectiveness against smaller or mid sized animals…which could be done through detection of deinos pre lung being made easier so slower targets are the most likely to get hit

[rare fractal]

Oh god yes that we will never disagree with

[urban flax]

No, with the other thing I mentioned, being the "move only hen you should" a bit of skill would be involved too.

[rare fractal]

Hmm…depends…would need to go through balance testing, but I would say anything at or above it’s own size for sure, anything smaller would need pragmatic testing

[urban flax]

So if a deino lunges a stego and perfectly minds the stamina game, it can drag and drown it

[rare fractal]

Possibly, but what’s the skill expression for the prey…should it ever not be pulling?

[urban flax]

When the deino stops pulling

(they keep losing stam when no one is pulling so that the lunge can't last forever, or there is a hard time limit on it)

[uneven mist]

yeah stuff like theri, rhino and sucho sized animals it would need to start to choke them

[cyan flame]

Not sure deinos should really pair hunt in the first place. And I don't know how to make that idea work for smaller stuff, though it could work for larger things. But it'd be on the deino to manage it, if the target manages it correctly the deino should lose out.

[rare fractal]

So if the deino stops pulling you pull, so what do you do when the deino is pulling? Do they brace or…like what’s the thing that fills that hole

Because if you’re NOT pulling away from the deino when it’s pulling your assumptively go into the water

[cyan flame]

No, when the deino is pulling, you try to pull "the other way" I think, while if the deino just sits there, you need to relax or you're wasting stam.

[urban flax]

When the deino pulls you pull in the opposite direction
It wastes a lot of stam for both, but since deino has very low base stam you end up being free

[rare fractal]

Oh ok, maybe that could work then

[cyan flame]

But not sure how to balance it in relation to size of the target.

[urban flax]

Just go and play some little bit elaborate fishing games and you'll understand

[rare fractal]

I think it should be made but before taking a strong stance on it I’d HAVE to see it tested

Because it could just be prolonging a guaranteed outcome if done wrong

[cyan flame]

I wish we could test it out on buck/pounce

Because that interaction is in desperate need of something better

[urban flax]

Yeah sure
But at least it's something you can balance, unlike current lunge

[rare fractal]

And I’d still want to reduce its effectiveness against animals smaller than it through detection if we are to increase its possible prey range

[rare fractal]

Mhm definitely a step in the right direction….also thanks for not just saying “tug of war stam battle”
I’ve heard that so many times that if you used that as the explanation I might’ve lost my mind

[uneven mist]

[rare fractal]

You’ve been a culprit of such behavior before…haven’t you…warden

[urban flax]

There's a good reason a "buck to win the fight" hasn't been implemented in the case of Deino's lunge

[rare fractal]

Mhm, guaranteed outcome mechanics are typically quite awful unless they require any amount of timing

[uneven mist]

sometimes but i just use it ironicaly now

[rare fractal]

Which bucking just doesn’t

[rare fractal]

I’m so jaded with the term I can’t even use it ironically….me of all people refraining from irony

[uneven mist]

https://tenor.com/view/rrr-dosti-ram-charan-jr-ntr-bhibatsam-gif-25468503

[rare fractal]

||sheds a single tear that you didn’t posts the Templar knight gif so I could respond with Gael||

[uneven mist]

https://tenor.com/view/elder-scrolls-online-knight-sitting-drip-gif-26075846

[rare fractal]

https://tenor.com/view/slave-knight-gael-dark-souls3-ringed-city-gif-24181378

[uneven mist]

[jagged jewel]

or you can lunge a trike by the head and you will get horribly gored too

lunge sometimes needs to punish careless players

[urban flax]

I mean't "cannot grab"

[jagged jewel]

mb

[urban flax]

@gaunt canopy Quetz will most likely die to one utah pounce :)

[gaunt canopy]

That makes no sense tho it’s around the size of a geraf and it has a massive sharp beak that is designed to impale like a spear

[limber hull]

it makes perfect sense

it's an extremely lightweight animal for its size

[urban flax]

irl Quetz is estimated to be around 200 - 300 kg
In-game people expect it to be as much as 500 kg, which is as much as a pachy (who dies to one pounce)

[gaunt canopy]

Ether way I can see it 4 hitting or 3 hitting Utahs considering it is still massive in size and most likely has a decent amount of muscle strength to support such size it may not weigh much but that doesn’t account for muscle strength and that beak is designed like a spear to impale things

[gaunt canopy]

And I was wondering is there like a to vote on things

[urban flax]

a what ?

[gaunt canopy]

The stuff that doesn’t have a check mark ✅ I’m not able to make one

[urban flax]

Oh
The bot is supposed to add them
But it didn't this time

[gaunt canopy]

Ok thanks 👍

[lapis swallow]

Dyno stopped working for some reason

Back to omni vs quetz

Quetzs will fear omnis

It aint attacking more than one of them

[urban flax]

Quetz fears nothing
It fights to the death (which happens quickly)

[gaunt canopy]

I can’t remember wat Omni was short for

[urban flax]

Omniraptor
Utahraptor's new name

[gaunt canopy]

Oh

[sage yew]

@drifting lynx — 17.12.2022 09:50
"Herbivores guarding bodies is pretty obnoxious. We need something that causes herbivore players to not want to be near corpses, maybe flies that obscure vision in herbivores but don't affect carnivores?"

Being near deceasing corpses will induce sickness over time
applicable to all herbivores and maybe some carnivores, if they're not supposed to eat rotten meat (forgot the term for it).

(ha, found it: "if they're not meant to scavenge")

[gaunt canopy]

Ya it definitely won’t fight more 1 but in a 1v1 I can see it 4 shot to 3 shoting the Omni

[urban flax]

Honestly I can see quetz one-shotting omni

At least when hitting the head

[gaunt canopy]

True

[gaunt canopy]

Then on body mixed with tail hits it will probably 4 shot or 3 shot depending on were it hits the Omni

[barren zephyr]

i am wondering how fast we will get new playables after U6?

[limber hull]

according to devs, much faster, since U6 lays some of the final frameworks for new creatures

[barren zephyr]

so maby 1 herbi and cani evry month xD that would be nice, but i bet they will still give us 2 updates per year

[tepid gate]

doubt on that due to the amount of animation-load that has to be done for each playable but I believe that the devs have hired an additional animator(?) some time ago, the question is whether this person is going to be animating dinosaurs or if they're more about humans perhaps.

[lapis swallow]

<@&933486433342222376> the dyno bot reaction in #general-feedback does not work anymore, you should look into that

[tepid river]

We are aware of the issue, thank you. As soon as a fix is available it will be implemented

[lapis swallow]

Ok

[sage yew]

<@&505047238674874368> I didn't got the voting system on my post in #general-feedback

[icy lion]

Please see the previous messages

[gaunt canopy]

I fixed my suggestion finally the was down Dino was right

Typo Bot

[urban flax]

I see that

[gaunt canopy]

I just came of sergey sry I typed weird the meds are still in my system

[gaunt canopy]

I would ✅ your suggestion isamaru but that is just not how monitor lizards work they can’t detach there tail. they are built to use in fighting self defense.

[sage yew]

I don't get it

[icy lion]

Read the messages right above what you posted

[sage yew]

The only thing I've found quick is by Kel — 15.12.2022 16:09 and he focused on Playable characters related to the forest, is there something else I've overlooked?

[icy lion]

#general-feedback-discussion message

[sage yew]

oh, here, nvm

[rare fractal]

@whole owl
1: Megalania is a monitor lizard, they don’t detach their tails…I’m not one to necessarily use realism as an argument in this of all games but that’s just silly to me.
2: Detaching your tail wouldn’t stop literally any perusing player from continuing on to kill you unless you’re faster than them…at which point why are you even detaching your tail if you have a way to get away from them…

Overall it kinda boils down to an idea that works on animals because they’re stupid and easily distracted by something unexpected that just wouldn’t work on players…not to mention being I’ll fitting for the creature.

[proud coral]

I liked the idea of that for Herrera just so I can drop it on people from my tree and scare them

[faint folio]

@whole owl ignoring the realism arguments (because this is a game with extinct animals that we don't even have full skeletons of, much less muscling and fat and skin textures/colors and habits/behaviors-- there's a LOT of suspension of disbelief and fantasy already), as fluff pointed out, the tail detachment probably wouldn't fool a human player as a distraction. It may fool cats and the like, but most humans usually see where the geckos run off to.

[proud coral]

I like the foliage resistance idea a lot. Not only because it could add a bit of dynamic...ness....to jungles and serve as potential hazards, but you could even tweak it per species. Smaller stuff having an easier time than larger stuff for instance. Also goes well with the idea for Magy of letting it move through dense foliage easier than others of it's size.

[proud coral]

@gaunt canopy A tail slap has been confirmed I believe by Kissen.

[gaunt canopy]

Nice

[gaunt canopy]

That be a nice self defense tool to have and monitor lizards use there tails like that to get out of danger all the time wich makes sense for it to have that ability

[gaunt canopy]

The problem with that is it’s manly a computer oriented game if they try and optimize it for those things it will take away from time of actual game development and they are short on development as is that is the problem with your sinario if they take time to do wat you are saying the game will will have even worse time gaps in development updates and it will never be done sry mommy but the game is a computer based game at its core and it will never be finished if they that

[gaunt canopy]

Maybe after the game Is completely done maybe this sinario can be viable but only then unfortunately then a console optimization can be viable , because currently they take along time as is to rollout updates it will be much longer if they do this but if they wait till it done then they can put a lot of effort in to optimizing to console then your sinario can work mommyDonna.

I hope this didn’t sound too blunt I have no filter @rugged coral I am now loopy from pain meds and can no longer type properly I hope you took my message ok good night

[rugged coral]

The issue, is that this game looks like it will never be truly finished as it’s constantly worked on and reworked, this game has been out for what? 6 years? And they’re still at early stages of development. Optimizing also shouldn’t be much of an issue sense next gen consoles are powerful with playing at a constant 30 to 60 fps at 4K. It’s more of an issue to optimize this game for people who play on lower specs of PC’s or Laptops than it is for consoles.

[static niche]

[gaunt canopy]

That was legacy that was out for 6 years evrima is new restarting from scratch and salvaged scrap pieces and they are working with a better engine this time also the code of legacy got corrupted I’m pretty sure they are correcting mistakes and not corrupting the code this time around they will probably get done it sooner than legacy since they have better engines to work with but it they are still limited in wat can do this game has mostly revolved around computers once they are finished they most likely move on to stuff for consoles sry be blunt words i have no filter I don’t mean to be blunt

Sry if my sentences are incoherent it’s the pain meds

[rugged coral]

Oh no you’re alright I don’t view you as blunt and I understand you just fine. But i hope that what you’re saying becomes true, it would be nice to export this game to a broader audience. Plenty of PC exclusives game have flawlessly been optimized and released for console, so hopefully once The Isle is eventually finished, future plans of console releases are planned.

[gaunt canopy]

Most likely yes they will have console but currently they trying to just get the new remake setup first before they do giant grand plans to expand most likely

[gaunt canopy]

That usually how some games work the start off on computer and then expand to consoles or vice versa once they are setup properly they get the ability to expand things

[light wedge]

i hav a question will the isle ever come to console im asking this becuse lots of people dont hve the money to get a high end pc and the isle on console woul attact alot of dino lovers and the sales would be high this is a question and a suggestion. Also if u think console wouldnt ahve enough keys just make the game mandatory to have keyboard and mouse but ye

[little pasture]

how do you play as acro? i saw someone in game playing as it but i cant choose it in dinosaur selection

[urban flax]

Acro can only be played on sandbox servers, or if you get injected as one by a server admin
But there are no official servers on the legacy version of the game (the one with acro) so you have to ask the admins of the server you're playing on, on their discord

[little pasture]

Okay thx

[wraith verge]

@vocal iron that happened way to many times when i played ptera, only thing thats gonna save u is if u fall from somewhere or go swimming

[sage yew]

Releasing games on consoles, always leads to weird design choices to suit multiple platforms. For PC players it's always an downgrade

[azure echo]

@oblique creek i can’t say I’m familiar with that

But if it gets the carnivores to actually roam the map I’m all for it

[oblique creek]

Yeah the hotspots have definitely gotten worse with the players that know the glitch. There's still some that hunt and roam but I think most just camp center with glitched chunks of meat KOSing everything in sight

[azure echo]

Sounds like a load of BS, i wouldn’t even know how they would fix that. But I’m assuming the water glitch is the water level on the map is just peaking through the ground. Probably to do with the whole rising water level with floods and such.

[tall hearth]

Theres 2 other way to fix it. Ptera can latch onto a tree from the ground and launch off and fly away. The other way is spamming the sniff button.

[wraith verge]

what really ? i gotta try this

[oblique creek]

I definitely notice the little pieces of water clipping through the ground in some parts. Seems the whole river that drains into south east swamp in the back there is kinda screwy. Dinos will float like just above the water when swimming and the fish clip through the water and die lol. That would be pretty dang awesome to see the island flood tho and deinos cruising around areas they wouldn't be able to access normally

[azure echo]

I fully believe that was gonna be a feature on Evrima

[limber hull]

flooding is a planned feature iirc

[oblique creek]

I mean good point because I do remember hearing something about fire and floods/droughts. Would be really cool if we got like seasonal events for a week or 2 or maybe alternating weeks where its flooded then dry or areas have burned off and regrown making the players have to change up gameplay due to environmental changes

[gaunt canopy]

That I cool 😎 I can’t wait till they add that will be a very interesting feature

[barren zephyr]

@keen willow that is when the game thinks you're still falling. Reconnect to the ground by clinging then holding space to fly or take a swim. Just do anything to reconnect to the ground. Ik it can be annoying but its caused by ping.

[sage yew]

has anyone ideas to prevent mixpacking? Just had 5 carnos with 10 utahs... so ridicules

[grave dagger]

avoid mixpacks, let them starve to death

[sage yew]

not really a solution, but the only thing you can do for now

[oblique creek]

Wont even work since half the server just glitches out meat chunks and lives off that indefinitely

[sage yew]

Had this idea, of an "alpha" perimeter. The Idea is, if you play as an Apex predator, you'll need to exhibit dominance pressure on your surroundings or it will debuff you, when you tolerate other apex predators in your surroundings. To medigate the ability, to basically detect if something is near, to make it work delayed.

[lapis swallow]

that is a bad idea

[tall hearth]

"Oh no I got pushed out, now I'm debuffed"

[sage yew]

can you guys explain?

[tall hearth]

Can you explain what this supposed "debuff" does?

[lapis swallow]

what it adds to gameplay?

[feral solstice]

You unfortunately cannot design a mixpacking mechanic without affecting the playerbase in general

People tried out “proximity” debuffs, but they end up being abusable

That mechanic suggested unfortunately may become a hassle in certain situations

Now… if you added an INCENTIVE aside from debuffs, that could be good.

[sage yew]

abusable, in which sense? The thing I see coming, that it will also work as a proximity alert, but in that case it should work with a certain delay

which debuff exactly should take place, I don't have an answer to this

[lapis swallow]

but apexes will do this on their own, no territory can sustain two in close proximity

[sage yew]

how about it buffs you, if you are the alpha apex predator? does this sound better?

[lapis swallow]

that sounds even worse

[sage yew]

duno what you guys are expecting

[tall hearth]

Non abusable buffs or debuffs for one

[sage yew]

what is an abusable buff here?

[lapis swallow]

unfair fights, cause the other one has a buff

[tall hearth]

You havent said what gets buffed or debuffed so idk

You should flesh out your ideas more.

[sage yew]

this is what I try to do here

for now it's just an wage idea

that's why I haven't posted it in general-feedback

[tall hearth]

The ideas I've posted in the feedback channel took me a couple days to think over. Spend more time thinking.

Can it be abused? What does it add to gameplay? Would players enjoy it? Is it feasible? Ideas like that.

[sage yew]

I'm looking here for inputs, I know how "ideas" work, wtf

[tall hearth]

You might be able to pull another idea out of this one if you spend enough time brainstorming.

[sage yew]

yes, I agree

and what are your thoughts exactly to this topic? Or are you just telling me that I can't relay here on anything, because I need to do it myself?

what a mess... really

[feral solstice]

This channel devolved quickly I see.
I’ll just add more meaningful explanations

[feral solstice]

Think of it this way:
If it’s proximity debuffs, what if a carno decides to stay around a specific pack just so it can grief them and debuff them?

If it’s faster than teno, the proximity debuff can build over time and the Carno could just run away if the teno decides to push it out

It’s like, yeah, it would be nice, but gotta think of how it’ll affect EVERY matchup.

[sage yew]

I thought using voice calls for this, as you can exhibit authority, by making an aggressive call. That way you could counter unknown threats in your area and if he wan't to keep exhibiting pressure on you or your pack, he will need to make an call too

[oblique creek]

The problem with that is players don't always want to conform to a rule like that

[feral solstice]

For the territory mechanic?

[sage yew]

what do you mean?

[sage yew]

yes

[feral solstice]

Hmmm. But what if the mixpack decides to keep three calling each other and finds a way to work around it?

There could definitely be work arounds which is why it’s so hard to mitigate mixpacks

[sage yew]

that's why I seeking out for an brainstorming, it's even harder to think of everything when you try this alone

instead of press 3, I would suggest a new 5 for an explicit territory call

"But what if the mixpack decides to keep three calling each other and finds a way to work around it?"

This should be limited, as it will only work for a certain amount of time, if it goes without conflict, it will start to deplete anyway
if conflict does not work out, after a certain amount of time it will deplete, till only one alpha (or pack) is left

or they learn to life with like -20% speed, bite force, or something like that and simply accept the fact, they won't be so powerfull when forming mixpacks/megapacks

Like 100% + 100% = 160%
would at least weaken individuals in mixpacks

if you form a megapack, of lets say 10 carnos
you'll have 5 packs. 100% stats per pack
5x 100% = (5x100)x0.8 = 400% stats in total

therefore, making a smaller pack makes you stronger as an individual and that seems to be incentive to become an alpha

[lapis swallow]

@topaz pendant this would be bad if you would want to meet up with your freshly spawned friends, this is why I downvoted it. Its also horrible for herbie diets

[proud coral]

I would argue it's good because

1. Can't just spawn where your diets are and have an easier time
2. People can't just pick the most popular spawn and leave the rest of the map barren
3. As they said, it helps make nesting more viable since with regional spawning, you literally just spawn in the same region and quickly find each other.

Now for point 1, having species just have their own natural spawns would be good instead of pure randomness. So for instance; Tenonto's are more likely to spawn near swamps whereas Deinos obviously spawn in or near water sources. Could also pair it with migration and just have creatures spawn in or near their species' current migration path. These two ideas also help solve the issue of being unable to meet with fresh-spawn friends since your species always spawns in their preferred regions.

[topaz pendant]

Another option is to limit the spawns to maybe 3 spawns with a large radius of where you will actually spawn or a ton of tiny ones around the map like on the beach and in random places

[sage yew]

I kinda agree on removing spawn points, simply because of it becoming too predictable and repetitive, but it would be nice if you could pair with people who are in your steam friends list, so you have an option of you both spawning at least in call 1 range

[feral solstice]

That’s actually a good idea

And besides that, herbi diets are going to be connected to migrations, so you could theoretically tie the random spawns to the migration area, or at least a distance around it.

[barren zephyr]

@restive ginkgo they need more mud puddles and that would fix it. making river banks only slow blood and make you harder to track might be a good idea, whereas mudpits would hide your scent and stop your blood

[gaunt canopy]

I am confused on what you are saying @safe flower just wondering what you are talking about are trying to dryo should one shot a stegosaurus

[safe flower]

naw i was just jokin bout that one

[gaunt canopy]

Oh

[safe flower]

yeah

[sage yew]

Is it possible to open a thread here? As I would like to discuss the idea further on how to make mixpacking/megapacking by game mechanics less desirable

[azure echo]

@echo tundra not sure I understand why you would want a wipe? If you are concerned about the number of adults on the island then I suggest you grow an adult and kill some off

[topaz pendant]

@echo tundra why do you want to have ur dinos cleared every week or month ?

[crystal trail]

@tight lantern We always planned for deino to only detect movement at the surface, but during update 3 there wasn't enough time left for it's implementation. Eventually we'll be revisiting that system.

[uneven mist]

@rare fractal

[tight lantern]

Beautiful. That is great to hear, and thank you for giving me a quick response on my feedback/suggestion.

[lusty heron]

I do not believe you can open a thread but what you can do is display your idea in #general-feedback and discuss it with others here in #general-feedback-discussion

[tight lantern]

I believe if we keep responding back and forth here Discord will present the option to turn the discussion into a thread.

[tight lantern]

I'll give things a go here a few times for testing.

[icy lion]

Threads are disabled in this server

[tight lantern]

It at least worked inside a separate Discord server I am in

[tight lantern]

^^ that explains it 😅

[icy lion]

@safe flower Stego's head has had a 2x multiplier for at least a year

[safe flower]

ah

ok

sorry mate

[icy lion]

All good!

[safe flower]

i just never play stego i feel like such an idiot

[sage yew]

That's what I try to avoid, because my idea is not refined enough to be convincing and I definitely need more input.

[lusty heron]

I encourage you to refine your idea and post it as long as it’s in good faith 🙂

[gleaming halo]

hey i have a question on envirma what time are the server restarts?

[icy lion]

It's pinned in #evrima-eu and #evrima-na

[topaz pendant]

@thorn elm they are doing more stuff with beaches on gateway

[thorn elm]

sweeeet

[feral solstice]

The game is very much not alive anymore

||||

[normal shuttle]

[topaz pendant]

@normal shuttle dryo doesn’t have a concept yet so it may have some unknown features and we still have burrowing to wait for so I mean it’s not a totally Useless Dino

[normal shuttle]

I am aware, but it is in the game, meaning that, arguably, it should have been already thought out before being released just like everything.

Besides, I know burrowing is a future implementation as we have heard so and it also appears in the megalania concept…But I would argue that just that wouldn’t be enough if we’re getting avaceratops, homalocephale and mimmi as confirmed burrowers already, and who knows about Taco. Meanwhile, as you can clearly see in the revealed concepts, both minmi and homalocephale stand out from the rest by having their own unique traits which may be useful. Minmi has a wide variety of gimmicks while homa is a downscaled version of an already conceptually interesting small herbivore

And well, the thing that I meant in my post is not that it’s totally unviable nor useless, because it can very easily survive. The problem is…What business does it have in the game when compared to the rest of the roster? They entire roster with the exception of hypsi to a lesser degree do not suffer this problem. You just have to see how many things other dinos have going, they’re all simply outright more interesting to play, which pretty much discourages people from using it

Ugh, a bit longer than I expected. But I hope I explained myself properly

@feral solstice The idea itself isn’t inherently bad, but I really don’t feel like dying of starvation because I logged out and have to work. I feel like this game is just right without that Ark detail in which you cannot leave an online server for over 12 hours without having a 50/50 chance of being raided

[feral solstice]

Huh

Safelogging means logging out and your dinosaur doesn’t stay.
So you’d be logged out and wouldn’t starve if you clicked the button

[normal shuttle]

Hmmmm

Although I gotta say I like the healing part

Makes sense for me and can add some depth to the gameplay

[feral solstice]

I am the chosen one. I lost my X emoji

[normal shuttle]

Lmao

@scarlet rain I believe that question is much more fitting to be asked elsewhere

And yes, Evrima is under development currently. Slowly but still being polished and improved by the devs

[scarlet rain]

oh right gotcha

[normal shuttle]

If you’re impatient about the development speed, I would suggest you not thinking too much about it

I agree in the idea the devs must have their own lives and a video game of this type requires plenty of work, so maybe playing something else in the meantime is a good choice

Unless the game currently entertains you, tho

[topaz pendant]

@scarlet rain no

[scarlet rain]

Ah right damn
I just checked back after 18 months and wasn't sure

[feral solstice]

The trolls are awakening

[uneven mist]

“Game is dedicated, why”…what

The past feedbacks have been really wierd

[rare fractal]

Feedback has been really busy today…

Most of them just being bizarre

[lapis swallow]

Yes

[uneven mist]

This discord has been weird lately, especially isle discussion

I’m actually getting a headache from the discussion

[rare fractal]

Mhm…that’s just my constant relationship with it

There’s only like 15-20 people in here I know I can actually enjoy talking to

[valid pasture]

Just a question ofc but why are ppl so against some dinos just being a skin for another dino like cory for para, , what can a cory do that a para can't. They are verry similar and just making dinos like cory a skin for para would make it so they waste less time on such dinosaurs

Im saying this cuz it saves so much time lol

[lusty heron]

I'd assume people want a new dinosaur to be made with unique care. Many refer to legacy for example as "same dinosaur different stats" and evrima is supposed to branch out from that form of simplicity

[valid pasture]

Fair enough but in legacy there is no corythosaurus and there will be one in evrima but like i love both para and cory but there is barely a difference between the 2, just big hadrosaurs that are fast have good stam and are a lil bulky (im thinking about jp3 where they find a herd of parasaurs and corythosaurs and run from the raptors

[gaunt canopy]

The resin why why oasis evrima failed and v3 legacy didn’t is because legacy had oasises all over the map spread out. The resin the oasis in evrima failed is because it was cramped and didn’t have more spread across map , meaning that everyone crowded around it because it was the only extremely popular hot spot the only way to make oasises work is spread multiple across the map if they were to ever bring it back

[proven spoke]

We don't need Gore we need FPS sorted out, So the game is playable all over, Sick of fighting with 10 FPS every time it makes the game a drag.

[placid oriole]

Adding my opinion for FPS issues:
I have a great gaming computer. I run all my games, multiplayer or not, some with over 200 mods, in "Ultra" graphic settings. I joined an empty (0 people) server last night and my FPS was constantly fluctuating between 30-40 frames. When I hunted down AI, it dropped to 15-20. That is insane. I pray that when the new update drops, optimization has been worked on.

[azure echo]

@valid pasture, as a Herbivore it will be my active duty to hunt down humans.

[rare fractal]

If they have guns I’m never getting within 100meters of them

[azure echo]

just friendly call and help call. then when you get close smack em

https://tenor.com/view/jurassic-world2-dinosaur-escape-gif-12011628

[rare fractal]

Only works on complete and total fools but i guess that’s legit…still I’ll never interact with them if I can….I don’t like wasting my time

[azure echo]

its the same concept for me as finding mixpacking players, will join the group, then unexpectedly ram the carnivore among the herbivores hopefully break a leg or something

[rare fractal]

Oh I do the same…ranged weaponry changes things tho….

Just not worth it

[azure echo]

will need to see how it works out.

[limber hull]

@grand sedge whats wrong with the new NV, if you dont mind me asking?

[grand sedge]

Not a fan of how it's super bright nearby but no visibility outside of that radius (from what I've seen)

Idk about you, but when I go around outside in the dark my vision isn't worse depending on distance, and it looks super unnatural.

[limber hull]

I personally think it looks a bit more clear than before but ye

[echo tundra]

to stop hackers

and cannis from ruling server

[limber hull]

i dont think that fixes or stops anything

[azure echo]

That’s not going to stop hackers.

If anything it’s just gonna encourage more hackers, because your progress gets wiped constantly and you have to start again

[meager barn]

UHM DID I PREDICT TODAYS PHASE 3 POST OR WHAT

[indigo mural]

Why the ❌’s

[urban flax]

Because alt bite is good as it is
And omni already has a pounce

[lapis swallow]

Why take away one of the best alt attacks?

[proven river]

Alt bite is useful and kick is galli's attack

[craggy flower]

I agree the FPS is not great the most I can get is like 30-40fps when streaming and I have a rtx 3080

[proven spoke]

Jesus Christ.

[potent arrow]

@karmic echo In regards to the difficulty of finding players on Spiro, I don't think the size of the map is the issue, but rather the map's design, or lack thereof.

[robust dome]

Thats why gateway will fix everything, fps and that

Hopefully

[quasi spruce]

Is the new map confirmed for update 6? Or did I hallucinate that

[uneven mist]

It’s not planned for u6 no

[quasi spruce]

Man

[uneven mist]

@robust dome idk if you knew but funny enough I think MothmanMykie is an animator

[robust dome]

Who is ? And so ?

[uneven mist]

New developer

This guy

And they are looking for more

[feral solstice]

He is an animator

[uneven mist]

Knew it

[feral solstice]

So we now have 3 animators

Now I’m waiting for that 3rd juicy programmer

[uneven mist]

We have 3 programmers, it’s just that one prioritizes on ai

[robust dome]

But since when is he working ?

[robust dome]

@violet drift Except it just wasn't in.

Look at the roadmap U6, at no point do we see it in and neither do we see that someone moved it from the update

And this: isnt the roadmap and even if it was it doesnt tell us that it will be in U6

[violet drift]

What do you mean it wasn’t in? It definitely was in the roadmap. Though the roadmap is just poorly managed and confusing as hell since it apparently isn’t accurate at all anymore or something

Also that image implies it heavily, to say it doesn’t is just a lie

[robust dome]

Where do you see migration ?

[violet drift]

Do you not realize roadmaps can be updated?

I mean I can’t go back in time

Also the activity bit isn’t consistent, I’ve used trello before

[feral solstice]

Unfortunately it was never in the roadmap

It was a haha funny dev PR moment in the devblogs which threw everyone’s expectations into the air

Doesn’t mean it’s not bad. But that’s kinda the explanation we got

[violet drift]

In that sense, yeah

Gotta love isle devs

[fading pecan]

@empty reef you have to know where they spawn. Like at NW they spawn along the tree line as u head to center. At south, they spawn along the tree line as u head to center. Then they occasionally spawn in the grasslands along those areas as well. Also when the official servers reset the ai are found a lot easier.

[empty reef]

Is there a map?

[robust dome]

But my point is that you can see when they are updated. And here they arent

[fading pecan]

Yes, use vulnona.com it’s an interactive map where you can copy and paste your coordinates in the map

[robust dome]

Compys a(nd pterodactyls) spawn very near corpses. For the others its vulnona.com

[remote karma]

carnivores have to sort through organs, just... why?

[nova delta]

@austere axle Guess this is a very important and useful suggestion because lately there are so much misinformation and lack of proper communication with community leading to frustration, and disappointment. Hope, devs can get some use of what you said what I unfortunately doubt.

[lost plinth]

Hey so I wrote this in the discussions in regards to Punch's recents comments regarding the roadmap. It was stated that the roadmap can be trusted and devblog statements should not be I suppose- but this brings up an issue where a feature that is prominent with the Troodon in terms of hype, advertisement(?) and promise has a questionable air around it. Filipe stated in a stream that "we're not sure about the mimic stuff and if we are gonna add that"- this is very much contrary to what the roadmap for Troodon says "This creature is known to mimic certain noises." and earlier even gives another statement pointing towards it "Keep your wits about you. Believe half of what you see and**none of what you hear. **"

[uneven mist]

Mimic is in a “not when it’s first released but later on” same with deinos vertical lunge

[lost plinth]

Deinosuchus's card says nothing specifically about the vertical lunge

[uneven mist]

Yeah deino’s, I say deino for short for deinosuchus

[lost plinth]

Either way, Deino's card says nothing of vertical lunge outside of the concept art from what I can tell, unlike Troodon which outright mentions it twice.

[uneven mist]

Yeah I also think it’s a bummer that mimic won’t be released first with it but it is what it is

[lost plinth]

It isn't so much a bummer as it is a contradiction in how much of the roadmap we can trust. Why not just expedite certain dinos if you can add features to them later? Cera could just have the "eat anything" feature added later, as an example (not saying it is ready, but I am using it as an example.) Herra could just be given a grip like Ptera and climbing later, etc

[uneven mist]

…herrera’s whole hunting style is by climbing. If it can’t then it can’t hunt that’s like adding deink without any water

[lost plinth]

Herra can very much lay in wait by just gripping the object. It would be more like adding Deino without the grab. It still has ambush capability but not as good as it can be.

[robust dome]

But herrera deals no damage so removing his core ability makes him just a fast dino. Pointless

[lost plinth]

Not really? As I said, you can still wait in ambush then jump down on foes or just hold on and enter a battle of attrition similiarly to Ptera landing on things or gripping things. Herra is still distinguished from the Omniraptor in regards to verticality and ambush strats. You could theoretically also make it able to "wall jump" by leaping off higher than its grip position, so landing on an adjacent piece of wood, rock, etc, would allow you to do this until you reach a sufficient height.
Herra could, even without climbing, be distinguished from other dinosaurs.

[proven river]

@potent arrow we already have a Utah concept

[potent arrow]

@proven river We have omni concept art

i want "accurate" utah concept art

[sage yew]

The game is just bonkers right now, as it seems that everyone is growing a carno for the weekend. Just spotted 3 of them sitting in random bushes, totally unaware and afk. What kind of gamedesign let's you play AFK and it is the most efficient way to play - after all, why should you risk to be killed. I'm so annoyed of this, as the whole map seems to be empty, but 100 players are online.

[tepid gate]

Update 6 helps out with that a bit - animals become viable before getting to full adult meaning that you can actually play the game during earlier growth stages without being punished for it the moment another player sees you.

[sage yew]

*"meaning that you can actually play the game during earlier growth stages" *

you can do this already, but people don't want to, before they have 100% growth. In my country electricity bills just exploded by 200-300%, so I play every time the game is running, would be otherwise a waste of money.

Just think of some parents who pay the bill for someone to be AFK 90% on this resource demanding game. Better mine bitcoin instead, wtf

[tepid gate]

no, you can't, if you play this game before reaching full adult, you're literally asking for someone to kill you

subadult Utah is utter fodder, young Carno is Utah-food, Tenonto and Stego are a joke and basically walking happy meals

[sage yew]

that's what the game is all about, avoiding it by not playing is just stupid

[tepid gate]

if you're playing the game before reaching full adult - you deserve to lose your creature

[tepid gate]

no, it absolutely isn't

U6 changes things up making animals grow faster

they reach decent size and power level earlier on

[limber hull]

While I don't agree entirely with the "don't play until adult", current growth curve really serves no encouragement to play before adulthood due to a bizarre weight scaling

[tepid gate]

they are also faster while younger

meaning that you aren't complete fodder whenever an adult of any species sees you

[tepid gate]

weight, speed, damage - just "everything" scaling

[limber hull]

since weight determines your health, blood, ability to resist stuns and ability to use some of your more powerful combat moves, you always want more weight. As it stands, having weight be so low for so long really means that playing a younger dinosaur is a risk in itself

[tepid gate]

new changes are a godsend

yea but it's not just weight

damage and speed also scale in a truly wacky way in the current game

[sage yew]

I just go always all in and hunt as a juv or sub carnos twice the size of me and it works

[tepid gate]

they're trash

if a Carno dies to a Carno half its size - it's trash and should uninstall

[sage yew]

what a statement

[tepid gate]

I mean that's the reality of it

[sage yew]

are you dumb?

[tepid gate]

a Carno half the size of another one has NOTHING going for it in the current game

[limber hull]

Eh, I understand why they're dying. Being that subs and juvis really aren't that far apart, considering their stats burst at an exceptional speed in the last few moments before they reach 100% adult. The gap between a juvi and a sub is not as wide as it should be

[sage yew]

never said I play as carno, but as raptor

[sage yew]

this

[tepid gate]

if you lose while fighting an opponent that has less health, deals less damage, stuns themselves upon charging you - this game will make you suffer

[limber hull]

If you die as a 100% adult to a sub, yea, you're pretty garbage

But juvis and subs are ridiculously close in strength, which in lies the problem

[sage yew]

I just hunt as a juv/sub in a different realm and avoid big things that can one-shot me

and it works perfectly

[tepid gate]

Not all animals are the same - sub Carno's absolutely murder juvies, they are faster, more tanky, deal more damage while juvie Carnos do next to nothing to them, it's not even a skill issue - it's playing on a touchpad or losing a consciousness mid-fight issue

[sage yew]

agility and speed plays in handy, I really don't get it why people avoid it

you die anyway

[tepid gate]

hell with a young adult you could probably roll over an entire group of subadults half your size

Also - let me put it this way

[sage yew]

just avoid adults then?

[tepid gate]

if you're killing those people twice your size

how do you think those people would do if you were to run into them while they're same size or half your size?

[sage yew]

worse I guess?

[tepid gate]

worse is an understatement, if they die to you while being vastly better by every metric then they'd be free food to literally everything looking their general way if the situation was reversed

but even disregarding all that

[sage yew]

I don't see the problem with that, just don't go into every fight

[tepid gate]

at the moment, as things are - you gain absolutely nothing from getting into a fight as a juvie

this update changes that

[sage yew]

why is being weak a problem, I see it as a part of the game

waiting for 100% does not improve game experience at all

[tepid gate]

might be the case if you're new to the game

after you've grown everything dozens of times it absolutely does as it saves time

[sage yew]

I just don't care about my growth, I just do my thing
my point is, it is totally playable

[tepid gate]

it's playable in the same way that U 3.75 was playable

[sage yew]

if it's such an pain in the ass for some people, just demand a server where you spawn fully grown and skip this juvi/sub part entirely

this would save a lot of time

[tepid gate]

yea people have been asking for sandbox and it's currently not in the works and won't be for a long time

[sage yew]

that's a bummer....

[tepid gate]

besides - instead of asking for sandbox they could just ask the devs to fix the growth curves which is exactly what they did in U6

[sage yew]

it would free up space for those who actually want to play the who play the live span through, for now is mostly half the server just waiting till they can deal the punch they desire

instead of fixing the curve, I would suggest to make movement and travel distance a necessity for growth - building muscle mass

[tepid gate]

oh it would free up the space alright

[sage yew]

hm?

[tepid gate]

people would just use the steam trick to set themselves up for automatic trotting and trot around somewhere in the middle of nowhere, overall goddamn that's an awful idea

[sage yew]

maybe that way you imagine it, don't know how far your creativity goes

like you can fix it easy by making it in such a way, that you need to have a certain distance from point A to B, so you can't just move in circles to reach your goal

movement, to build up stamina
conflict, to build up strength
damage, to build up resistance

there are so many more ways to make it more interesting to grow your dino

[rare fractal]

That sounds obnoxious af

[sage yew]

would love to do some playfights in my pack to build myself up, everything is better then the waiting game

[rare fractal]

And very abuseable

All I’m really seeing this as is “Dps your packmate to buff your stam”

[sage yew]

playfights, yes. I see nothing wrong with that, at least people would be active while logged in

with some, or many, if and then statements, could be system abuse mitigated

[rare fractal]

Just don’t tie benefits to it

[sage yew]

and no, I don't know all the answers to all, if's and then's

[rare fractal]

Make it a thing you CAN do but don’t HAVE to do to achieve meta

Like I don’t take any issue with non lethal fights…

On their own…

[sage yew]

duno, needed to experience it first, to build up a propper oppinion, but for now to make it a necessity does not sound bad

[rare fractal]

I don’t understand how it sounds good tho

[sage yew]

it makes you to interact with the world to become something

thats a good thing

[rare fractal]

So does collecting acorns in POT, that’s still terrible…I’m not saying they’re a 1-1 I just dislike that vague standard

[tepid gate]

Damn, you still kept this idea going(while somehow making it even worse)? Do I need to explain why those are absolutely atrocious ideas?

[sage yew]

no, not really

[rare fractal]

Interaction with the world doesn’t necessarily improve gameplay, the quality of that gameplay matters greatly and to the degree of it being mandatory could result in strategic domestic abuse to make your dino as powerful as possible…like…why

[tepid gate]

This would be anti-interesting. I'd just sit with my friend in a corner of the map and we would repeatedly hit one another then sit down and heal.

Then get up hit one another, then sit down and heal

[rare fractal]

Exactly….

“Dps your packmate to achieve meta”

[tepid gate]

This whole idea is so abusable it makes most other terrible ideas blush

[sage yew]

also avoidable, by combining it with other requirements, so you are forced to use the whole map, for example

[tepid gate]

As for walking in a straight line - I'm sure the playerbase would love for the game to tell them where they need to go. I'm not even going to mention how exactly the devs would be supposed to implement that and how you would know whether you're walking in a straight line enough.

Not to mention not every animal can do that - how in the world would you have Deino travel in a straight line?

Even then I'd just go in a corner of the map lock movement forward for some time, then do a 180 turn and lock it again

[sage yew]

different animals have different requirements

why is everything you critize somewhat 1dimensional, there are countles of possibilites to solve such things

[tepid gate]

I'm seeing a lot of empty statements without anything concrete to back it up - what animals would have what requirements? What other requirements would you put there to stop people from using this atrocious abusable mechanic from ramping up their damage and durability to 11?

[tepid gate]

Give concrete examples then, what are those "countless possibilities"?

[cyan flame]

How is it not just better to have a growth curve that allows you to grow into a capable state quickly so you can then engage without feeling like you just die when something sees you? You're trying to add a bunch of "must do" things instead of fixing the basic issue, which is that you "die on sight" to things. Give better biomes for juvies, let them get past the "useless" stage quickly, and so on. That way you hopefully get more engaging gameplay and people being willing to be out and about on their own without "forced" reasons.

[sage yew]

"I'm seeing a lot of empty statements without anything concrete to back it up "

I'm not a developer, I don't know answers to everything and every possibility, and I don't have to

[tepid gate]

Yea, thankfully

[cyan flame]

At the very least, a better growth curve than "get all the power at the last 10%" is needed. Because current state is not at all fun, for any playable.

[tepid gate]

He believes that juvies are ok

So you'd have to first address that

[sage yew]

yes, I like to play as juvie/sub and don't have such issues

[tepid gate]

he says he kills Carnos twice the size of his own

[feral solstice]

Supposedly this is what’s happening in update 6

[cyan flame]

Well, they're not. That's a given. Getting full power in the last 10% and be useless all the time before that is not okay. And far as I know, all playables suffer from this, so it's a problem in general.

Since it does nothing but encourage you to hide away until you've become full adult as it stands.

[feral solstice]

The least balanced growth stages are the shortest and the more balanced growth stages take the longest

[sage yew]

subs are so agile, with the right enviroment and good tactic you can hit a good punch

[tepid gate]

yes, which will make the game vastly more playable but the gentleman here believes that this isn't the right approach and instead he would do... well "this":

#general-feedback-discussion message

[cyan flame]

Sounds like it'd make some sense yes.

[feral solstice]

Wait a damn second

[cyan flame]

The only vaguely good juvie/sub right now is deino because it's somewhat viable. Most of the others are pretty much useless until fully grown.

[feral solstice]

So.. moving around to gain stamina
Dealing damage to build up “biteforce” (strength)
And getting damaged to build up… resistance ?

[cyan flame]

I guess ptera, if we count something that can just fly away as well.

[sage yew]

that's not true, you have to avoid adults, but still not true

[tepid gate]

I can't imagine what could possibly go wrong if the devs were to implement this marvelous idea

[feral solstice]

Like all of those literally could make the game 100x harder to balance. One wrong move would make you reset, and you have to do the same thing again until you get it right

[cyan flame]

It is, if you actually look at your stats and what you're capable of. The only one that is viable, that is, can actively play and do something and be useful is the deino.

[sage yew]

carno sub can run away from ANYTHING
utah sub can avoid any attack

[cyan flame]

Utah subs can not. Carno sub can admittedly charge away if it needs to. But that's.. not really making it viable in playing, since you can't do much else.

[sage yew]

you can hunt juvs and other subs

[cyan flame]

It's not just about running away, it's about viability as a whole, how much you can engage with everything without it being 95% guaranteed death.

[tepid gate]

depends - Carno subs have a specific point where their speed peaks from that point onwards they're ok prior to that you're food to a bigger sub that doesn't DC mid-chase.

Every single instance of me encountering a smaller animal of the same species the only factor deciding whether that animal lived or died was my mood.

[sage yew]

just avoid bigger things, you don't have to win every fight and kill everything to have fun

sometimes you have to escape

that's fun on it's own

[tepid gate]

...or die - which will be the far more common out of the two if the opponent you're up against knows what they're doing

[sage yew]

yes, can happen, then you start again

nothing wrong with dying

[feral solstice]

There’s a lot wrong when you’re growing for hours on end lol

[sage yew]

I don't grow, I play