general-feedback-discussion

[zinc idol]

Honestly I like the rename for the utahraptor

And I think the humans riding Dino’s will be dumb ngl

[lethal lily]

didn´t think about it that way

[lethal lily]

And why tf wouldn´t there be humans riding dinosaurs?

[urban flax]

There's tribals for that

Also... I feel someone armed with a gun riding a 2-ton animals that is also the fastest thing in the game might cause some... balance problems

[lethal lily]

Wait aint tribals human too?

[urban flax]

Not really

[lethal lily]

i mean, take the weapons from the tribals and let them ride a dinosaur

[urban flax]

What do you mean by "take the weapons from the tribals" ?

[lethal lily]

take it from them while riding the dinosaur

[urban flax]

Why couldn't a tribal use a spear when on dinosaur back ?

[lethal lily]

Maybe because of aim problems

Idk how they gon do anything tho

[urban flax]

Have you ever heard of mounted archers ?

[lethal lily]

Yeah but there is a difference between a horse and a ten feet tall dinosaur

[urban flax]

Yeah the ten feet tall dino is slower

[lethal lily]

bro i just literally want more playables i don´t care about riding them dinosaurs😬

Something i think that wouldf be good is installing radars on them tho

[urban flax]

I'm a fervent defender of tribals rights, which includes enslaving dinos and (why not) riding them

[zinc idol]

How would it work exactly?

[lethal lily]

Bro i just said i have no idea

I just want new features ingame

[urban flax]

1.Walk up to dino
2.Grab dino
3.Climb on top of dino
4.Profit

But not Gen 2

[uneven mist]

Or knock it out and force feed it

[zinc idol]

I don’t think tribals riding Dino’s will be a fit to the game tbh

Plus it has to be a ai dino

Obviously

[urban flax]

What's more fitting for a game with tribals and dinos than tribals riding dinos

[zinc idol]

Just doesn’t feel right to me

[urban flax]

What about this ?
https://discordapp.com/channels/401464048610312193/401481371249541120/864910040946835477

Or this
https://discordapp.com/channels/401464048610312193/401481371249541120/782864299051319297

[zinc idol]

Still doesn’t feel right to me but idk

But it could fit with the lore though

So ig it would fit into the game

[tall hearth]

Man if a group of tribals come up to me as a dino and my choice is to either be enslaved or die, I'll have fun being enslaved. Itd be a fun gameplay experience to see what they wanna do and accomplish.

[zinc idol]

Or slaughter them all

[lusty silo]

@gritty terrace they could add ducks or something like this for ai eggs.

They could simply make it easier to obtain eggs we will see tho

[scenic dew]

Why isnt the pt getting water when using right click to snatch a fish while skimming

[burnt bone]

Because then it would never have to land to drink, which is supposed to be one of the few times it’s actually vulnerable.

[scenic dew]

True

But i feel they are always vulnerable when skimming, i have snatched allot as a croc when they fishing haha

Altho most just crash in the water because of lag spikes haha

I need an extra function as PT to drop a load when flying on chilling raptors on utah rock

[grave dagger]

bro utahs do get penalized if they miss a pounce

its happened to me several times before, where I missed a pounce on a stego and got butchered by its tail

Bleeding is fine, you got to think these utahs are literally shredding your skin off with their claws and bites.

the only thing i'd say to fix is the pouncing from the front.

[zealous stone]

I think you should be able pounce dinos like Teno and Stego from the front, and instead get knocked off the tail. It should be based on what side is their main weapon.

[runic steppe]

How do u miss a pounce on a stego 😂

[zinc idol]

Idk

[zinc idol]

Or around the neck

[scenic dew]

Can you knock off a Utah as a stego while being pounced?

[zinc idol]

Yeah

[zinc idol]

Also I think it could make it drown if you are going fast and skimming the water as the water could go in the throat forcefully like in a way you try to drink something without physically drinking if that makes sense

[scenic dew]

Noh most type of " aquatic " bird can close a part in their mouth to prevent water from entering

Not sure what its called, pelicans have it aswell

Crocodiles have it aswell, a muscle that closes the throat

Palatal valve

[zinc idol]

Kinda gross and disturbing how pelicans yawn

[scenic dew]

Saw a video of pelicans eating pigeons in NY park haha

[uneven mist]

Pelicans eats whatever comes near their mouths

Goddam demon birds

[scenic dew]

google shoehorn bird if you want to see a freak

or bearded vulture if you want to see a modern raptor

[icy lion]

The best modern raptors are roadrunners, you can't change my mind

[scenic dew]

Roadrunners are flightless right?

[icy lion]

IIRC, short bursts of powered flight and gliding

[scenic dew]

damn they look sick

btw what era of creaturess are the goal for the isle?

everything from mesozoic / cenzoic?

[zinc idol]

Oh I think they are really cool, the sounds they make sounds like shooting

[icy lion]

We've got creatures from all over, including the Pleistocene and current era

I think the oldest is herrera, the newest is humans (megalania if you exclude them)

[scenic dew]

Noice

hope they will add argentavis at some point

[urban flax]

Argentavis wouldn't really be interesting as a playable

[scenic dew]

big ass scavenger that flies around cleaning up the prairies

[urban flax]

It'd just be ptera but with feathers
and smaller

[scenic dew]

argentavis is huge

[urban flax]

For a bird

[zinc idol]

Quetz is bigger

[zinc idol]

Yes

[scenic dew]

quetz just looks too goofy haha

[zinc idol]

Nah

[zealous stone]

I would say replace some of the redundant land playables with air ones, so their could be a whole airborne ecosystem, but I think the player count the game can handle is small enough for the map size.

[scenic dew]

sadly yea

[urban flax]

No need to remove land playables to add new aerial ones
All I want is tupandactylus

[zinc idol]

Why replace land playables

[scenic dew]

maybe at some point when there are higher server max

[uneven mist]

If we were to get a new flier I would want tupa

[urban flax]

Even irl the aerial ecosystem if much less varied than land or aquatic ones
There's only so much you can do in terms of bodyplan if you wanna be able to fly

[icy lion]

Not dissimilar to aquatic ecosystems

The only reason fish are shaped similarly is because That Is How You Move Underwater

Though with only 2 playable fliers, and a sci-fi game, there's a lot of room for creativity

[urban flax]

But underwater there's also crabs, cephalopods, and a whole bunch of innomable unholy freaks of nature

[zinc idol]

If we replace land Dino’s then aquatics will need to either kill other aquatics or hunt the flying Dino’s

[scenic dew]

Will humans get transport btw?

[urban flax]

yes

[scenic dew]

Like helicopters or jeeps etc

[icy lion]

Yea, some vehicles are planned

[scenic dew]

Dang

[icy lion]

We saw some concepts of a tiny, safari-esque heli

Nothing like a Blackhawk though

[zealous stone]

Because the current roster planned is basically guaranteed to be overly bloated. I didn't say all land playables, I said the redundant ones.

[scenic dew]

Kamikaze strike the wings of the chopper with a pteradon

[urban flax]

Please not yet another conversation about redundant playables

[zealous stone]

Must hear about it a lot then

[icy lion]

Not too frequently, but it's the same conversation every time

[urban flax]

I hear about a lot of things

[icy lion]

Oh also @scenic dew here's a concept for a heli we could get, we've seen the same one in a previous concept too

[scenic dew]

Damn

[icy lion]

Chair on a scaffold with spinning blades, basically

[scenic dew]

If they add dirtbikes i will die a happy man on it

[urban flax]

I want unicycles

[scenic dew]

Stylin on des pachy fools

[burnt bone]

I really hope pachy can ram a door and either make it swing open instantly or tear it off the hinges

[gritty terrace]

Well I do think that is a good idea I think that should be separate from player eggs unless there will be AI playable nests that they defend because then the big thrill of snatching eggs would be mostly gone

But having duck eggs as a separate thing that doesn't have as good of a buff but still rare I think would be a good idea too

[lusty silo]

100% agree

[jagged jewel]

it's huge, for a bird, still small next to the roster

[plush vault]

With that /stuck command, that would be so helpful as I have a fully grown stego stuck in a tree :,)

[grave dagger]

I pounced too early and landed right next to the stego

[gritty terrace]

why are people asking for anky trail came and animations like it is anywhere close to done? 💀

anky is an apex and likely a high tier one at that

[viral finch]

@topaz pendant Although make sense. I think not, just because is not impossible.
I have seen very good utahs take down some Stegs (even if they were bad stegs in some point). So it's true that the bigger they are, the worst idea. You have to be beyond careful and yet a good steg always have the favor.

I do think there should be hints time to time❕ to warn you or advice you for some how-techniques or strategies to achieve diets or else.

But adult Stego surely will not be viewed as OP once they release Alosaurus or who knows what else to inject to him some fear..

[uneven mist]

@frail crypt don’t think the map is too big just that its level design is shite and there are few hotspots

[frail crypt]

yeah might be so. I like how Envrima is. You can at least choose which section. Now I spawn on the other side of the map and gotta wlak for like 1 hour to reach dinosaurs. The map size right now in my opinion should be smaller but with more detail

[uneven mist]

We are getting a new map tho, it’s called gateway but it’s said to be bigger than the playable area of spiro (current map) but smaller than the whole island and it’s said that the tile is gone so it also has better fps so that’s good

But with good level design and hotspots I think it wil be fine if it’s a little bigger than spiro

[polar tiger]

You think it’ll be fine considering how many players per server?

[frail crypt]

I think servers owners should be able to put up barriers to minimize the player area

[scenic dew]

Not sure how the migration stuff is gonna work but apparently it will tackle hotspots

[faint folio]

Depending on how much performance improvements the removal of tiles provides, it's possible that gateway may be able to tolerate a higher player count. That remains to be seen, though.

On a less speculative note, the introduction of migration and the new diet system seems likely to help players find activity and hot spots

[scenic geyser]

How is it not balanced to have a Trex but it's balanced to have stegosaurus who will 2 hit a carno 100% grown?

Honest question like I don't get how having a dino who's aninsane tank with insane dmg output is balanced but a trex with insane dmg insane hp but trash stamina is not

[uneven mist]

It’s not a good idea to release rex rn is because it would destroy the ecosystem more and what would it eat? It would just starve because the things it’s meant to hunt isn’t in yet

[zealous stone]

To be fair, it could eat Stegos, and there aren't a shortage of them

As well as the occasional land Deino

While I don't think they should just rush Rex in, those two animals are very much overpopulated and something needs to kill them

[proud coral]

Problem is though if you add something to kill Stegos

What kills that?

[uneven mist]

There isn’t enough stegos to satisfy a rex and deinos can just go in water

[uneven mist]

This also

The animal I see that could both kill and be killed by a stego would be acro

[zealous stone]

I think the best move would be to grab Deino, give it a small buff that for the most part only effects its match up with Stego, making hunting them more pheasible while still leaving Stego at an advantage for the most part, and slapping Stego into its dot diet, so they kill each other more. Maybe even give Stego the ability to use its tail in the water for more conflict.

They're the two most powerful things in the roster right now, it makes sense to encourage conflict between the two of them.

[uneven mist]

Or we could replace them with bary and kentro

[proud coral]

Eeeeeeh, that just sounds like deathmatch and less survival.

[proud coral]

👀

[uneven mist]

Or replace stego with kentro and downsize deino to 4 tons (rugosus my beloved)

[zealous stone]

I get you don't want everything to fight everything, but I feel like having them fight each other is beneficial in this situation.

[proud coral]

I fear it would just encourage everyone to be Stego and Deino in deathmatch all day since currently, there is very little to do but fight. Combine that with the fact that most players flock to the big bad scary creatures, that makes it even more likely <:P

[zealous stone]

Deino is the entire reason players fear the water, and sure Bary might be able to pose a threat there, but not the same extent. Its the inability to fight back against Deino thats makes it scary, Bary simply cannot have this effect. And since you need Deino, you need something that can kill it, a role which Stego fulfills.

[zealous stone]

That would only potentially be a problem if they don't make these apex tiers harder to grow, which lets be real they should.

[proud coral]

Mmmhm. That's why so many Deinos and Stegos can be so bad....

The bad players can grow them so easily ;_;

Stuff of that size should only be obtainable by those who actually know how to survive 😛

[zealous stone]

Someone really needs to cut down the fish spawn rate so Deinos have to keep their numbers down a bit more

Stego, I'm honestly not sure theres a simply solution to, since its herbivore and can just bush camp and doesn't even need to go out for extended periods of time to hunt, just occasionally come out to eat some diet plant.

[proud coral]

Hopefully U6 with it's reworked diets n such helps with stuff actually taking skill (not just time) to grow. I'm hoping that with the new diets combined with migration, we kinda get a big "filter" effect on everyone.

Like let's say U6 comes out....suddenly adult Deino population just t a n k s.....mmmmhm, guess we know who AFKd the most!

[zealous stone]

Deino's population should be easy to control, just cut the fish spawn rate. Stego on the other hand, even if you cut down the spawn rate for its diet plants, it could just eat other plants. Cut that down and you screw over every other herbivore.

[urban flax]

You can't really make herbivores starve anyway
You can only make their gameplay more tedious and less interesting

[uneven mist]

Sure it adds fear but mostly annoyance than fear tbh, no one wants to be 1 shored by something and have no counter play, well it’s also because the current lunge is really terrible, being able to lunge things up to 4 tons that most likely took 3-4 hours with no counter play

[zealous stone]

Yeah exactly, which is the problem with controlling Stegos population. Even if you were to cut the spawn rate for all plants, they could still just graze grass.

They have basically no need to ever compete for resources

[uneven mist]

Grass op

[proud coral]

Kissen mentioned starvation being a problem again in the future for herbis actually

[uneven mist]

[urban flax]

And lowering the amount of plants only makes the experience of running through the map to start filling your nutrients when you spawn even more pathetic

[zealous stone]

Yeah, thats boring enough

[urban flax]

Maybe something linked to droughts, making it impossible to graze

[faint folio]

It's not going to happen, but to expand on this idea further, I'd actually support slightly shorter grow times (say, nothing takes longer than 4 hours to hit adult) in exchange for increased difficulty of reaching adult for more powerful dinos. Stuff like rarer food resources, resources that require more conflict or skill to obtain. Rather than whoever has the most time having the most apexes

[urban flax]

I unironically agree with shortening growth times but making growth more difficult
Even if a rex is only 4 hours to grow, 4 hours being constantly on your toes is enough

[proud coral]

I'd combine the 2 actually. Have stuff like T.Rex for instance take on average a decent time to grow (8ish hours perhaps) while the gameplay itself is challenging but fun.

None of that legacy logic "oh it's hard because no one enjoys it!" stuff >:/

[zealous stone]

Lunge in its current state is kinda dumb, I'll agree with you on that. However, the helplessness is what makes it scary. While I'd like if there was a way to fight back against a Deino, it should still at least give the illusion of being utterly helpless. Its kinda hard to do this with Bary, except maybe on small tiers.

[cyan flame]

You do not need deino to exist to fear going for a drink. The whole idea of ambushing someone going to a lake to get water has been a thing throughout the history of this game. We could take out deino, and you'd still have people ambush at the shoreline, just no longer from the water itself. And I'm not sure being helpless is what's scary, it's more irritating. Most of the time people don't fear deino, they just go "oh well" when they get grabbed.

[urban flax]

I think there's no need to make things both hard and tedious

[faint folio]

My counter is that it's kinda insane to ask someone to sink 1/3 of a day into just reaching full potential in a video game. Especially when that potential can be reset in seconds 3/4 of the way through.

Players are people and they have lives outside the game. People with full time jobs should still be reasonably able to play and experience apexes if they want to

[proud coral]

If the gameplay is enjoyable enough (which currently it is not), I think it'd be fine to have stuff still take a while. Nothing beyond like....12 hours or anything. 😛

[zealous stone]

I'm not sure how likely it is to get jumped by something other than a Deino while drinking, however I've never had it happen to me before. Though to be fair once you know how to avoid it, Deino doesn't jump you very often either.

[cyan flame]

Maybe if we can figure out a good way to determine time and difficulty of growth vs the effectiveness of the playable. See current omni, grows really fast and easy, and is incredibly powerful for that time and effort invested.

[faint folio]

Plus I'd much rather have the difficulty of getting an apex come from the gameplay itself and not the amount of time you can sink into it

[proud coral]

Mmmhm. Should be balanced out.

Something like a T.Rex for instance should both take a decent amount of time and have very challenging gameplay, even as an adult. But the reward?.....you're a T.Rex!

[urban flax]

Just what Iceandi said
I know you're not supposed to grow apexes in 1 single play session but... how many then ? If I play The Isle 2 hours a day (which is already quite a lot considering my schedule) it would take me 4 days of intense grinding to grow ONE rex. Like bruh.

[zealous stone]

Although helplessness does help make something more scary, you have less of a reason to fear something if you know for certain you can survive it. The trick with Deino should be to give players a way to escape its lunge while making it seem impossible on the surface.

[proud coral]

I mean based on what we know of with new diets, it could actually vary since there are ways to speed up growth 😛

[cyan flame]

Maybe you had more luck throughout prog and survival, but I can promise you, I had success ambushing stuff as rex when they came to the lake for water. And similar occurences as carno and so on. If you mean Evrima, well, if you make a kill near the shoreline now, deino takes it, so why would anyone do it? If deino did not exist, I think you'd see more of others ambushing around the drinking spots. (though with such long rivers and swamps, it'd be hard anyway, but well, that's what we get for having deino in the game and adjusting map to it so).

[proud coral]

So if you're good at surviving n' such, it may not take that long (relatively speaking of course)

[faint folio]

Exactly my point. A lot of people with jobs, kids, etc can only play 2-3 hours at a time. Making apexes a 12 hour endeavor is needlessly punishing, especially if something kills you at like.. hour 8, you wasted 3 days. Besides even at 12 hours, there are people who can and will do it in one giant play session-- grinding away for a whole day

[cyan flame]

I don't know, I don't fear deinos as anything, since it's just an on/off switch, it's like falling down a cliff. It happens, and that's that. No interaction, no gameplay, no real engagement, so no real emotion to it. But maybe we just treat that differently, to each their own and all that.

[urban flax]

I think that's here the core flaw of the Isle gameplay loop is. You grind for hours trying to play hat you ant to play, then you lose everything in a matter of seconds and you have nothing to do but start grinding again...
The only other games that do this are roguelikes, but in roguelikes you get something after you die

[zealous stone]

I'll admit I haven't really played Legacy, so I can't draw experiences from there. Your arguement of Deino preventing other roster members from ambushing people drinking makes sense, I mean, you could ambush a drinking Utah as a Carno, only to then get ambushed by a Deino while trying to drag the carcass away, and then lose 2 hours of progress or so.

[urban flax]

Also roguelike sessions usually only last between 20 minutes and 2 hours for a full run

[zealous stone]

Yeah the Isle could benefit from some kind of permanent progress

[urban flax]

But ont the other hand allowing people to start full grown (or with a bonus to growth) once they got something to full grown once is nothing but admitting the system is bad

[zealous stone]

Maybe the perk system can be useful here

[cyan flame]

Ah, well, you'll have to trust me that ambushing at lakes was a thing, and something you were aware and wary off in most cases. Since you could easily miss someone hiding nearby and going at you while you were drinking. And with legacy combat, getting that jump on you, would make a decent difference in how that fight went. And yeah, right now in Evrima, if I have a grown deino, and something else fights near the water, I'm just gonna go grab that food when you're all done sorting out who lives and dies. And the only thing that'd make me hesitate is if there's a stego around, or maybe an actual megapack of carnos or so.

[zealous stone]

Keep most perks locked, and have more be unlocked whenever you reach 100% growth or successfully raise offspring to a certain age as the species.

[urban flax]

There is also the problem of people usually playing on different servers
How would perk progression work ? Kept between all servers, or reset everytime you change server ?

In the first case people could just grind in their empty servers then go to other ones ith full perks, in the second one you can multiply the amount of grind needed to unlock things by 10x

[faint folio]

Tbh that is a flaw of path of titans. You get reset like 5% when you die, and you are capped at the next growth stage (eg if you die as a sub, you cannot revert to adolescent). There's not enough to risk to dying. But the isle has too much risk. Honestly about 4-5 hours is the extreme of what I would say is an acceptable loss due to death, and even then it really stinks to be killed 4 hours into a 5 hours stego grow

[urban flax]

That is true
Maybe fiddling with the percentages would work... Like losing 50% of growth (5% is just ridiculously low)

But then what happens if you die as Utah then pick stego ? Or the other way around ?

[faint folio]

Honestly I like being reset to spawn because it keeps a decent amount of babies in the game-- in pot almost everyone you bump into is adult.

I'd argue the way to mitigate the cost of dying is to limit the sunk cost of it-- eg make grow times shorter. In conjunction, make it harder to survive as a core mechanic, therefore making death more likely and increasing the survival aspect of the game. Atm death is not particularly likely, unless as an adult you go looking to deathmatch other players in center

[zealous stone]

Yeah if you don't want to a fight, then survival is easy, especially as a herbivore

Even with Deino you can just avoid hotspots and eat fish.

[faint folio]

I would suggest allocating resources like food such that the demands of survival enforce pvp-- in other words, food is scarce therefore you must defend your food from others who wish to claim it for themselves

[zealous stone]

The Isle would be better if you lived and died fast, but got a little bit of a permanent reward each time.

[faint folio]

This should be doubly true for apexes-- in order to grow they must fight and win

[cyan flame]

Honestly, carno is probably the only playable right now that you might struggle to survive with, and that's purely due to the high hunger. Everyone else can live pretty easy and safe.

[zealous stone]

Yeah but I feel like the way it was done for Carno isn't the best way to go at it

Rather than forcing them to hunt for their entire lives, instead make each hunt a serious risk.

[cyan flame]

Oh I agree, carno currently has no downtime, and can't even "chill" at night, despite being a rather terrible night time hunter. Not really ideal to me.

[zealous stone]

I'd like it if the AI was actually challenging to catch, though I don't know how pheasible this would be.

But if deer were to actually try to juke you and dodge your attacks rather than just occasionally turning that would be great.

[cyan flame]

Detection range and sneaking making a difference would be nice too.

[zealous stone]

Yeah, the instant detection within in certain range regardless of whether or not its actually looking at you or if your in cover is quite annoying when you're a juvi.

Some basic stealth mechanics would be nice.

[faint folio]

For an example of what I would, want... consider a trike. As an apex herbivore, it likes to eat a certain kind of cycad that spawns in fields. This cycad grows in clumps, and each clump has enough food to restore 80% of the hunger of a single trike. Sounds good, right? Except, maybe only 1-2 spawn in each field. So, the existing trikes have to compete for that resource, or eventually starve. Thus, it encourages pvp between apex members, and discourages overpacking (as they WILL starve if they try any larger groups than pairs).

The same can be done for carnivores-- make a kill mean much more food reward, in exchange for a tougher fight and preference for killing about equal size or larger rather than constantly one shotting juvis. Both carnivores and herbivores should have sufficient hunger so that they are not at risk of starving for a while... assuming they can successfully claim one good kill or food node for themselves

[scenic geyser]

I read all the answers yet the only negative impact would be that the Trex would starve to death, well I actually don't agree at all as I see non stop stegosaurus even in groups so I think there's a lot of meat to be achieved, and if Trex gets spammed ofc it will starve to death and that's fine because it will reduce the overpopulation and force people to pick other dinos. Then everyone spoke about how you can't nerf the growth of the steog because reducing the grass benefits will nerf all hervs, well I think the nerf should be on the ability to constantlly spam the tail attack, so if you can bait him you've a chance to get a bite in, right now with high ping, low fps you can not react fast enough to bite him... so it should have like a delay between cast and cast, I just feel is so strong

[urban flax]

The problem is stego would be the only thing rex could eat
And it wouldn't be an easy fight at all
Otherwise stego becomes instantly unviable

[scenic geyser]

So it won't be an easy fight against a rex yet it's fine to have it against utha and carno?

[urban flax]

Stego isn't the same tier as utah and carno...

Also they can just walk away from it

[polar tiger]

Not sure why everyone is replying “Gateway” to @frail crypt (sorry for tag) suggestion… I guess they don’t realize that Gateway’s playable area is going to be larger than our current playable area lol

[zealous stone]

It's playable area is going to be larger, but the map itself will be smaller, and have less foilage in it, which will help performance.

[polar tiger]

I’m sorry I don’t understand. Erre’s saying that our current playable area is way too big, takes a while to traverse, and find other players. And gateway is going to have an even larger playable area and with the same player count probably. So how does a “smaller total map size” help any of those things? It’s still going to be way larger than what we have now.. I don’t get it

[zealous stone]

To be fair I didn't actually read the suggestion, I read your comment on it.

However it does look like Gateway's hotspots might be more clear, which should help with finding players.

[polar tiger]

Clear in what way u mean?

[zealous stone]

More notable landmarks

[polar tiger]

How many hotspots would you say our current map has?

[obsidian jetty]

Can't speak for others but I, personally, was trying to say that hopefully gateway will change the "not seeing others for ages" not by reducing the size but by its layout/design. If you avoid center and nw currently you can play for days without ever meeting anyone. So the new map, maybe in combination with the new diet system and migration, will hopefully solve the emptiness issue.

[proud coral]

Indeed. And I get why some people are fed up with another new map since Isle has a history of remaking maps over and over....

But this one is being made by Jace who's job is DEDICATED to map making. Usually it's been Dondi I think. And even just the little bits of Jace's work on Spiro are awesome, so imagine an entire map like that 😛

And from the bits we've seen in streams, the layout seems really good.

As in how it looks to actually travel around.

Rivers are rivers, much more/larger paths, forests aren't God-Awful anymore, more PoIs, etc.

[proven river]

@scenic geyser In your example, you say a stego that has killed two rexes has the same knowledge as a stego who hides in a bush... mate, how on earth would a stego that knows how to fight have the same skill as a stego that sits in a bush for 4 hours

@rocky iris We already had a showcase of the new alberto model lol

[obsidian jetty]

I think they were talking about stats. The stego in the bush will have the same damage and hp as the stego that has killed 2 rexes. Not the player skill. ^^

[proven river]

@sudden meadow We also have the new anky model

[proven river]

I think then that should be a perks thing

[obsidian jetty]

Ye I think so too...the suggestion sounds a bit too much like "levelling up" through killing things.

[summer thistle]

My theory for the update releases is that update 6 and 6.5 will come out close to each other at maybe late November or early December, then we’ll get beipi as a Christmas present or new years present

Stress testing will begin possibly in a couple days I dunno, we’ll have to see what the dev blog says

[proven river]

There it is, I'll also find the Alberto model for LinkaBell

[obsidian jetty]

Wasn't the new diet system supposed to do something like that as well?

[proven river]

It used to change stats like attack dmg and stamina which thank god it doesn't, I believe perks and new diets are linked though

[proven river]

Damn

[uneven mist]

Yes I have it saved

[proven river]

Look man, I've just been scrolling through #phase-two-archive , you couldn't have done that sooner (╥_╥)

[uneven mist]

For obvious reasons

[proven river]

Thanks though

[uneven mist]

I came and I conquered

[polar tiger]

Yeah I don’t have my hopes up for Jace after we’ve seen his work in Spiro. He completely redesigned the coast to be beautiful, yet no one goes there… because it’s insanely laggy and cpu intensive, and there’s no reason to go other than “it’s pretty” great, where’s the food or water. Neither? There’s no functionality offered to our gameplay. No reason to go and if you do there’s a great chance of starving. Even the pteras don’t hang out at the coast… So that effort by Jace was for nothing. Okay what about the south pond that used to be the #1 hotspot. Well no one hangs out there anymore, the fact that there’s now a nesting ground nearby helps slightly. Why is this no longer a hotspot? The terrain itself is very easy to get glitched on and stuck on, especially in the small creek which still hasn’t been fixed. And also it has the same problem the coast has, it’s pretty laggy compared to other spots. I’ve also noticed that bodies tend to have a large chance to glitch out and becoming inedible, crawling around, and even stretched into the sky causing a huge performance drop in this area specifically… I don’t know how Jace managed to do that but it’s not good. I’d much rather have Dondi. His old maps were good, and easy for most computers to handle, and hardly any glitches

[proud coral]

I mean most of Spiro is Dondi's work. And has lots of death holes....lag.....looks pretty bad.... <:P

Plus stuff like tile hitching

[polar tiger]

Yeah I agree that Spiro is definitely not good, that’s why I brought up dondi’s old maps and not Spiro

But Dondi’s Spiro is definitely better than Jace’s Spiro work I would say. Reasons: performance and functionality. Though yes both is lacking in Spiro, but I’m comparing dondi’s and Jace’s work

[proud coral]

I would n o t say the performance is better personally As for functionality, I don't really thing that's the mapper's job specifically. That's more so diet plant locations which is a balancing thing. So that's prolly Hypno's field.

[burnt bone]

Coast is probably the place I get the MOST frames in this game. I easily double my like 70fps to 144 when I’m there. There used to be a bug with the bushes that would cause lag there, but it would also cause lag at any bush.

[polar tiger]

One of the reasons you get the most frames is probably due to no one going there and there are no entities your computer has to calculate. Though it is extremely intensive on the hardware, on mine anyways and many other people’s I’ve seen, so much that they can’t even walk straight

[burnt bone]

plus, the coast isn't really supposed to have much food or water for most things currently in the game. pachy, pt, and maybe the occasional utah, hypsi, and dryo are supposed to be the main things going there. However, no one goes there because no one goes there. Why go beach pachy, when you can actually fight things at center? why go to the beach as hypsi when the only thing there are pteras? Anything else cant sustain themselves because there isn't any food (or is a dryo and doesnt exist).

[proud coral]

Plus they've mentioned that the coast is barren since they are working their way outwards of the island

[burnt bone]

Also, Jayce hasn't had much time to work on the beach, he has been designing a whole new map for a while now and hasnt been doing much for spiro since they can make a new map whose layout is actually good for the game

[polar tiger]

I agree with this, though I still would say that the beach could’ve been designed better that would appeal to players to explore it or stay at it. Such as creating a passageway for the deino players who are literally dying to see the coast, this would also give a nearby water source. or specially designed areas for pteras to nest at. I mean the coast is on the edge of the map, and ptera’s can fly to the river for food and water. Yet Ive never seen them there. Honestly the coast could’ve been turned into a nice hotspot with the proper design and add some more herbivore food & ai spawns. But besides this point, I stand by my statement about Dondi’s work having less glitches than Jace’s work, example being the south pond area

It does make me wonder why he chose the empty coast to redesign instead of a different area inland that needs work, such as the death ravine everyone complains about…

[uneven mist]

Didn’t he work on that

[polar tiger]

Hmm I think he added some rocks to the bottom of the ravine

[uneven mist]

He added a lot of rocks and made the water a little deeper

[polar tiger]

What water?

I thought it was all mud down there

[uneven mist]

It was water before

But now it’s dried up

It dried up in update 4.5 same with oasis

[burnt bone]

The south waterfall still has a small pond there

or are yall talking about trash pit?

[uneven mist]

And Jace had to work with dondis layout of the map so he didn’t really have a lot to do other than making the places prettier but the layouts was still shite

And now he can actually make a good looking map with a good layout too

[polar tiger]

Awesome

[summer thistle]

They really do need to add more ponds and lakes

[uneven mist]

We have seen 1 lake in gateway

It’s pretty big too

[polar tiger]

Do u have a pic u can show us?

[summer thistle]

Also I had a thought that maybe they could add more shallow streams where deinos could travel through and not get thirsty but would be sitting ducks if there’s any thing big enough to fight them

[burnt bone]

the only issue with that is that those streams are now perfectly safe drinking spots... and we know how that goes

[uneven mist]

No food for mr deino

[summer thistle]

Ye was thinking that there might be something to counter that, not sure what though, maybe less diet food around those areas

[polar tiger]

Oh yeah i remember seeing those in announcements, is there any new progress on beibi?

[uneven mist]

Other than from devblogs or it’s trail cam no

[summer thistle]

Also thought about something to ad to the diet system where you could get a diet from juvis of a species specifically, for example while adult carno may not be able to take down adult stegos it would make sense that it would hunt younger members off their species, this could be used to stop overpopulation of apexes.

[uneven mist]

I mean…it can still hunt juvi stegos with even adult stego being on its diet

[summer thistle]

Ya but it’s not on their diet so I’m giving a reason for why it should be

[scenic geyser]

@proven river What? No All the other way, that's why the stage that killed 2 rexes should have a very small bonus as it's battle worn

[proven river]

Or, hear me out, maybe they are rewarded with skill, being better at the game. Hate to break it to ya but people love exploiting mechanics and there will be people who abuse the mechanic to get a mega dinosaur

[scenic geyser]

Is it normal that I hit 2 utah for 3-4 bites and a 3rd one for 6 times yet not a single one died?

Like what's the dmg on carno bite? I think I killed before utah with less than 6 hits even tho mostly were on the tail

[rare fractal]

175 body, 1.5x for head, .5 for tail.
You should be able to 3 shot them if hitting their head, tho because of their agility and hit detection as a result, that’s often not possible

A more reasonable estimate is 4-5 because of how many tail hits you’ll be hitting

[scenic geyser]

Yeah but I'm 90% sure I hit 1 6 times yet still was moving like nothing

[rare fractal]

Probably tail hits, which again are very common because of how much surface area it’s tail take sip and the fact that you’re often going to have them running from you after a pounce

[scenic geyser]

Mostly were tails yet 6 hits an utah not dying for a carno for me makes no sense even more when for them it doesn't matter what angle they've for the leap as long as they hit it is fine

[rare fractal]

Yeah it’s pretty dumb, I don’t even think carnos damage needs to be buffed or changed, nor should Utahs health, but Utahs are way to competent in a fight with a Carno rn, 3 should be faced with a massive challenge if not just running away

[scenic geyser]

Like I killed before 3 utahs on my own but they died with 3-4 bites each but this?

I landed arround 15 hits in total not a single utah died, yet here I'm bleeding the more I move but if I don't move I won't be able to kill them like what

[rare fractal]

It’s funny how carno’s the animal that’s “specced” entirely into speed, but can’t use it against Utahs, it’s supposedly best prey item next to dryo

It’s bizarre

At least when you fight a teno there’s a back and forth

[proud coral]

Currents are actually confirmed 👍

[burnt bone]

tail tip hits exist too, which are about 0.1x damage, so 17.5 damage.

[tepid gate]

Carno's bite is a bit misleading it can very much look like you should be landing a hit while in reality you're not. Other than that - tail has a multiplier of 0.25 for the base and 0.1 for the tip. This combined with the bite socket being very tricky can cause you to land hits on the tail or even its tip.

For the record - the point where Carno's hit detection reaches the furthest is slightly below where you're aiming so you might actually miss things if you look straight at them.

[rocky iris]

wait we did? i must've missed it, was it in the phase two archive or the new phase three ?

[limber hull]

@alpine prairie We actually already saw a lake/pond thing

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/855527844670865438/1003403762800525322/lordbeipi.gif

That is on Gateway btw

[alpine prairie]

Wow , Never saw that , Was that in a stream or something , that looks amazing even tho its not finished

[limber hull]

It was just posted as a gif by Dondi

[alpine prairie]

Ah ok , ty for the info

[pure quiver]

@rocky onyx Adding to eating rocks to digest plants for herbis, perhaps rounder river rocks are necessary? So you could find river rocks to turn into gastroliths!

[proven river]

Phase two archive

[rocky onyx]

oo ! yeah !

[obsidian jetty]

@golden schooner Would that just be an animation that automatically plays as long as you hold the key like courting? Could it be cancelled by either one even if it involves grapples/pins? Or would you actually be able to fight? If so, how would a "duel"-mechanic work? A glowing circle around the two fighters? And when someone "dies" the fight ends and health is restored for both? Damage gets disabled for the two involved? If so, only towards the other one or in general? How long does the "duel"-status last? Do you have to manually end it? Is it timed? Is it distance based? Does it only work for people in your group or everyone of the same species? What happens if the two playfighters are attacked by someone else? Will they take damage from others? Will they still not be able to hurt each other during the fight?

None of that would, in my opinion, make a lot of sense for this game. I am not opposed to fun interactions (like emotes or something), it's just the "playfighting"-aspect that, for me, does not really work. In this game especially you need to always be in control of your dino and think about what you're doing. And being able to fight someone for fun and without any risk just doesn't feel right.

[tall hearth]

Exactly. Imagine I'm a carni out hunting and come across two players fighting, thinking "oh boy I can wait to kill/eat the loser" and then it's a mock fight. Both are at full health still and they both attack and kill me. Very fun, very cool. Fighting should always have consequences, especially in a survival game. Ik BoB does mock fighting and it kinda fits their weird game style, but it def has no place in the isle.

[proud coral]

I mean if they're play fighting, it'd likely have different animations. Just use that to tell if it's safe or not.

Plus couldn't you just look for blood and gore to tell if it's a real fight?

[obsidian jetty]

different animations? So the entire set of animations and therefore attacks gets replaced when starting a play fight? Could they still use their regular attacks during the play fight? Do they take damage from others if they are unable to attack themselves because they're in play fight mode?

The "is it a real fight or not"-issue is the least of the problems I see with it tbh...and creating a completely new set of animations for all dinos for play fighting seems a bit...much? Wouldn't it be easier to just, dunno, miss if you don't want to kill each other? Or go to a deathmatch server for fights without consequences?

[proud coral]

Well they can just reuse existing animations (maybe slowed down a tad?) and have the sounds be a bit different. Like a Tenonto play fighting may not growl a whole bunch.

Plus again there wouldn't be any blood/gore which we know there's gonna be plenty of in fights soon So I don't really see the issue. Devs seem to like the idea.

[obsidian jetty]

Do they? Well if they like it, they can do it ofc, it's their time and their game after all, but I'll be honest, they kinda lost me. I have no idea what this game's trying to be anymore... Guess I'll find out once it's finished

[queen ember]

@urban bear I’d prob just make it so parents can do that

Eliminates tons of issues

[urban bear]

True

or there could be a group promotion system where original leader of the group can promote someone, so if your in a group of 3 and your friend cant pick up the kids and run while the parents are out you can just give them permission to do so

[scenic dew]

Should be some sort of a buff you gain that increases your growth when you kill another dino based on his growth

Another dino from another species*

[limber hull]

why?

[proud coral]

Please nothing to encourage even more deathmatch behavior

[limber hull]

guess evasive, non-combatant creatures can get screwed lmao

[scenic dew]

Spices up your growth process

And motivates less afk growing

[scenic dew]

Btw as human, do they get construction mechanics?

As in build an outpost or something like that

Quite curious about what being a human is all about, what your goal is and Endgame etc

[limber hull]

depends on what kind of human

gen 1, the tribals, can freebuild huts and other structures from resources

generation 2, the "normal" humans can repair human bases littered around the map

[limber hull]

as far as we know, gen 2 humans goal in general is to upkeep the structures and functions of the island and, much like the rest of the roster, survive

[scenic dew]

sounds good

[scenic geyser]

I've never seen a more retar-ded mechanic in a game than bleeding in this one, carnotaurus has 0 chance against utharaptors, they'll poke you with a lunge mechanic that takes several seconds for u to drop, you can even have 2 raptors in the same side which is EXTREMLY RETAR-DED, and then if you wanna try to kill them you're actually killing yourself for trying to fight them. Carnotaurus right now is not worht to play and the bleeding system is reta-rded af, it goes against fighting because if you do you die, if you stay still because how long it fu-cking takes for bleeding to regen you'll die anyways, and even if you hit a raptor several times because you need arround 6-7 hits it won't even still die. Literally carnotaurus is not worth to play and a waste of time

[zealous stone]

The bleed mechanic itself isn't the problem. The problem is the combination of how much bleeding Utah can inflict with the fact that the pounce is brain dead.

Also you can kill a Utah with three bites to the body as a full grown Carno.

[scenic geyser]

Well you can only hit the body if the utah falls from the pounce, because with the insane trash turning radious of carno most of the times they'll zig zag you out of existence

Then you might say let's hunt stegos, well insane tanks that will 2 shoot you fully gronw....

[runic steppe]

Someone just lost a carno huh 💀😂

[plush vault]

I love both carno and Utah, but honestly Utah does way too much bleed damage. Yesterday me and my friend were in the gorge and one Utah pounced him for- in real time- 6 seconds and he sat right after and his bleed went down to 89% within less than 30 seconds. 2 very poorly played utahs were able to bleed him out in less then 3 minutes real time, with only 3 few second pounces and 2 bites. It's ridiculous

[scenic geyser]

The game is just trash

Literally is not balanced at all

[gritty terrace]

@grand ridge once again they are revamping the diet system for the next update so it is slot based, when you eat something rather than filling up a bar it takes up a slot and different slot combinations will give you different individual buffs rather than just a bunch of buffs or none

[grand ridge]

Oh cool!

[gritty terrace]

Past couple dev blogs talked about it if you wanna look at them

We have the general idea

[peak geode]

where do I get answers from "general-feedback"?

[icy lion]

What do you mean?

[peak geode]

i see alot of people giving feedback and asking questions but very few getting answers, im asking where do we go to get our answers

[icy lion]

#general-feedback isn't for questions. You can talk to Punchpacket or wait for him to show up in #isle-discussion if you'd like to ask something

[peak geode]

ok thank you

[sudden hinge]

It’s not that Utah does too much bleed it’s that Carnos bleed resist was nerfed

[bleak bison]

@urban bear watch my ptera match video. It has all of the answers for you😌

[urban bear]

shameless plug

[bleak bison]

I’m afraid it’s the only way for true salvation

[polar tiger]

What growth was ur friend?

[crude girder]

God forbid we have something as silly as a loud sound being painful. Anyway about the dinosaur mutants that can shoot EMP blasts

[limber hull]

Para actually using its most iconic feature in actual survival situations sounds way more interesting than it being ignored

[maiden anvil]

@gritty terrace I’m not saying para shouldn’t defend it self, it should but only to a certain degree. When I’m looking at it I can’t see many effective combat features present in it. Then the sonic attack would make it really stand out from other playable animals

[gritty terrace]

some type of head charge similar to rex to headbutt for stun I think would make more sense

[limber hull]

i think that'd make less sense

[urban flax]

Why would you hit something with a hollow trumpet ?

[limber hull]

the animal with a hollow skull headcharging things?

para should absolutely not get a headbutt attack

[maiden anvil]

[limber hull]

its far more unrealistic than it getting a big loud sonic attack

[gritty terrace]

thats just ark 💀

i guess they could exicute it in a way thats less stupid but it just feels like something only ark or bob would do

[urban flax]

If something exists in Ark doesn't mean it shouldn't exist anywhere else

[gritty terrace]

ik

[limber hull]

its an animal which has its primary feature be a bigass trumpet where its skull should be, don't make it hit people with a hollow instrument

[gritty terrace]

im just saying this game is not at that level

[limber hull]

i genuinely think a headbutt is way worse than a loud call

[limber hull]

we have EMP spinos

[gritty terrace]

ok sure

and thats a strain

[maiden anvil]

Besides, I bet the effects will be very different

[urban flax]

Using sounds as a mean of defense (or even attack) is realistic... Not common but it exists in nature

[limber hull]

and omniraptor in general

and herrera climbing solid rockfaces

[maiden anvil]

And stegosaurus gallops

[gritty terrace]

thats its own thing not based off of an actual dinosaur

the rock climbing is a fair argument

[limber hull]

and ceratosaurus is a big bully animal, rather than the fragile beast it was irl

[crystal sage]

@gritty terrace sound doesn’t work the way you described, or at least the way I interpreted your statement. Animals today use sound to survive, the clearest examples being bats and cetaceans. I believe it’s even been discovered that tigers might be producing a loud infrared sound to try and stun deer and such when they hunt. Paras have a hollow crest used for sound amplification; it doesn’t seem too far fetched that they couldn’t use it as a projectile to attempt to stun predators for a hot second. They themselves wouldn’t be damaged by their own sound because 1) the sound is moving away from their ears so not nearly as effective to them than the object the sound is moving towards, and 2) they might have adaptations that protect their ears from their own sound. Obviously it’s a game so liberties and concepts would be tweaked/created, and with it being dinosaurs you pretty much HAVE to be speculative, but it’s not unrelistic

[limber hull]

hypsi can spit acid

[gritty terrace]

idk I will be very skeptical until I see it

[uneven mist]

Ptera skim, carno charge

[limber hull]

pachy ram

[maiden anvil]

Basically, this game isn’t based on realism but si-fi with an inch spice of realism. That’s the way I see it

[uneven mist]

And hypsi being able to jump sooooo high

Uhh what else? Oh yeah troodon

[urban flax]

Para sonic attack would actually be the most realistic of all the special abilities we have

[gritty terrace]

you can't say the sound is moving away from them when it is literally in their skulls but yeah having it be a different frequency that it can't hear makes sense

[limber hull]

i like how we drew the line at para, the animal confirmed to have a head designed to make a loud trumpeting sound, making a loud trumpeting sound for self defence. The acid-spitting leaping/climbing flightless bird was fine but para being loud for self defence crosses a line

[gritty terrace]

idk way I thought of it is just LOUD because the devs are being vague as usual but I can see it

[limber hull]

also it makes para an interesting case of a large herbivore that's non-lethal, but still makes predators leave it alone. Imagine walking up as an allo to a herd of paras and getting literally obliterated by a collective shockwave of pure auditory hell. I'd stay the hell away if it meant I had to suffer the sonic wrath of 5 angry trumpet boys

[crystal sage]

….yes I can…because that’s how vocally produced sound works. When we yell as loud as we can, our ears aren’t hurt because of the sound not only moving away from us, but because our skulls aren’t where the sound is being produced from, it’s from our throats. There’s also soft tissues between the source of the sound and the ears that are going to dampen the noise level as well.

If I were to yell at you as loud as I can, your ears might be hurt/discomforted, but if you yell at the exact same volume as me, that same effect wouldn’t happen

It’s the same, if not a similar concept to when a train is passing by when blasting the horn. The volume of the sound the horn produces isn’t changing, but because of the direction of the sound waves in relation to you, it doesn’t seem as loud once the train has passed you

[gritty terrace]

that makes sense for how loud para is irl yeah, and once again with the frequency thing it does not matter as much ig

[plush vault]

Fully grown

[hearty sphinx]

So your all hungry and 1 has to go without because they are the look out. Makes sense, not. And as say we already have to be careful enough when eating and drinking. Makes a hell of a racket as u eat at the minute anyway so preds can hear you!@tidal prawn

[limber hull]

i personally really like the idea of locking your vision, as long as it's something reasonable, like you can still see 180 degrees ahead

if you can't move your cam at all, obviously that's bad

[tidal prawn]

Then better your positioning

[tidal prawn]

Fair point

For me I think it require no skill and no effort to rotate the camera instead I think you should use the environment and positioning so you have vision over whats happening

[obsidian jetty]

As long as I can hear what's going on behind me, I'd be fine with the camera being "softlocked". If I wanted to see what's going on, I'd have to stop eating/drinking and actually look at it.

@hearty sphinx people are taking turns eating/drinking when in packs already when they're not sure if there's a deino in the river or something else lurking, so I don't see the issue there.

[limber hull]

yea, it also means predators get more realistic opportunities to strike

(ideally, i'd balance it out by making eating faster again)

eat faster but risk more doing it

[tidal prawn]

Exactly thats what my point and feedback is
Idk if its my bad english but personally I dont get the downvotes

[limber hull]

i think its WAAAY cooler for an animal to be eating food, then sticking its head up and cautiously scanning the area before going right back to eating than just an animal magically knowing where you are

[tidal prawn]

Agreed

[limber hull]

more realistic, immersive, cool and opens WAY more time for ambush hunts

[obsidian jetty]

Which might make the game harder for people with impaired hearing tho. I been wondering before...can you play this game when you're deaf? Would it make sense to maybe add subtitles? Like [rustling] or [growl]?

[limber hull]

this feels like a retread of the epileptic NV discussion, but fortunately for me, I am actually hearing impaired so I can speak with confidence on the matter.

Personally, I do think there is a little bit of having to work around these issues as a player. Adding subtitles may create a situation where you can give far too great an advantage

having subtitles reveal the direction, distance or intensity of a sound creates a situation where tracking could become VERY easy

and ambushes REALLY ineffective

[obsidian jetty]

Yeah that's why I only put [rustling] and [growl] not [carno breathing 2m behind you on your right] ^^

[limber hull]

ehhh

again, being able to SEE rustling from x direction does create a situation where you can much better cancel ambushes

[jagged jewel]

Maybe make the area of the screen in the direction of the sound blur up a bit?

Not a lot, just a subtle blur and maybe pulse?

[obsidian jetty]

I just thought about it because I noticed that I usually hear things before I see them, especially in the jungles. A deer scurrying off or something. So even if you don't know where exactly an indicator that something's around might help.

[tidal prawn]

Yeah and I think it would also be abusable by people who can hear and turn that on

[obsidian jetty]

That's why I said subtitles. The word "growl" appearing on your screen without any additional information won't help all that much. You'd still have to look around to find the source.

No flashy arrows, no nuffn...

[tidal prawn]

But you'll know somethings there rendering ambushes useless which to me are already quite bad especially for the poor carno atm

[jagged jewel]

^

[obsidian jetty]

Ye, I know, I been playing the poor carno. It's a bit iffy. And I gladly don't need it. Just been wondering.

And with a "locked" camera hearing might be even more important.

[hearty sphinx]

And how do you propose you do that

[hearty sphinx]

The amount of times I've been picked off whilst eating is a joke! And that's with looking round as is!

[hearty sphinx]

People are getting ambushed eating as it is

[jagged jewel]

that's more due to the animation lock rather than a lack of awareness

[icy lion]

@somber wraith I'm preeeetty sure that's referring to AI

[somber wraith]

oh lmao. i feel a bit dumb now

[icy lion]

Basically every timr Wedge has done something for llayables it's "dinosaurs" and ai is "animals"

[somber wraith]

ah gotcha

gonna edit that then

[icy lion]

It's ok! It's not clear, I could still be wrong

[somber wraith]

thank you for clearing that up!

[urban flax]

@slate gale Saying that rock was smooth is a stretch

[uneven mist]

@frozen pelican different devs wonks on different things, all of them don’t work on humans

[obsidian jetty]

I agree with Duder on that one, the animation lock is a thing there, but I still don't see the issue. If you don't notice someone sneaking up on you while you're eating that's well played on their part. Ambush done right. And at least for carnivores there's the option of moving the body to a safer place if you don't feel comfortable with where it is. Maybe with that the dragging mechanic can get a bit of a rework and a purpose - and with the gore there's gonna be changes to eating for carnivores anyway.

[slate gale]

I know that it lacks development in the same way the smooth rock exists and a dino could not climb it if even its claws were sharp enough without taking into account the jungle theme in which the game is located the rocks have mostly mold

[hearty sphinx]

Yeah well I think locking the camera would be pants and a lot of other ppl agree

[distant storm]

I wanted to reiterate that the boost is for stamina drain to be reduced, not a larger stamina pool or increased speed. The para could still just not be fast enough to out run a pack of utahs or carnos. But could out stam them when they encourage each other besides just blasting the boombox at them. If possible, allow para to pick one or the other to use, but can't use both. Only a herd could achieve a mix of both. Those that rally can run farther. Those that don't rally and choose to save or use their "thuum" skyrim wouldn't get the boost, but have the stunning effect.

[zinc idol]

If deinos would have glowing eyes at night, it would be hard to ambush a Dino from the water

I mean it shouldn’t have bioluminescence eyes obviously

[proud coral]

Eyeshine would be fine (heehee rhyme)

[scenic dew]

Why does a croc have no diet and gets all 3 nutrients from fish while a stego spawns with a diet of 3 🤔

[cyan flame]

What do you mean?

[scenic dew]

When you spawn as a croc and eat a fish all 3 diet bars fill

[cyan flame]

All carnis can get the three nutris in the beginning from any meat except their own (if they're cannibals), while all herbis start with their diet, and have to get the three different plants.

[scenic dew]

When you spawn as a stego you actually have to get all 3 diets seperate

Yeah why is that

[cyan flame]

Probably because carnis do need to hunt, or at least scavenge, while herbi food is stationary. And possibly to encourage herbis to be out and about, so they can be hunted by said carnis.

[scenic dew]

Understandable for land carni yeah

But deinos have fish wich are pretty stationary

[cyan flame]

They do, but they're still classed as carni, just like ptera can fish, and so they most likely have it because making a specific exception wasn't needed. Especially not since we're getting gore and so carni diets will change in some way anyway.

[scenic dew]

hmmmm

[delicate crystal]

@cyan flame why?

[cyan flame]

Because the omni/utah has all the advantages in that matchup, requires less from the player, and have absolutely no need of being even easier and more powerful than it already is. Pachy struggles plenty enough with a single omni/utah, when it should be more that 1v1 the pachy should have the clear advantage.

[delicate crystal]

???

pachys are kinda op rn, i have seen them kill entire packs of uthas and 2 of them can kill a carno if it is caught off gaurd

i would understand if it stunned them with a mostly full headbut but they can just click and you broke ur back

[lapis swallow]

If I get hit by I running bowling ball, I am gonna fall down

[cyan flame]

Yes, they can handle a carno because they break it, that's not the same as handling an omni/utah, those are different playables with different options and abilities. Pachy is by no means op, omni/utah on the other hand is.

[lapis swallow]

Just saying

[delicate crystal]

yea well at the same time dienos should be able to one shot a stego with a headshot but for balance reasons they dont have it that way

[cyan flame]

Considering one pounce almost bleeds the pachy out, yeah, it needs a better ability to take on the omni/utah if anything.

[lapis swallow]

And for balance reasons they make a tap ram a stun

[delicate crystal]

a full pounce does, but the pachy can buck or just rock camp and the utha is off

i got bucked off with full stamina in like 3 seconds

[cyan flame]

How do you even get hit by the ram, it's like the charge, very visual and clear. I'd imagine the alt attack is what would be more effective vs omni/utah anyway.

Yes, you get bucked off, but even with that, you do massive bleed.

The omni has the advantages in the pachy/omni matchup, there's no need to make pachy struggle more, when if anything, it should be easier for the pachy to handle that engagement.

[delicate crystal]

Have you never been sniped in the dark by that one bush camping pachy?

[delicate crystal]

whats omni?

and ether way, if you are pounced there are many solutions: rock or tree, have your friend bump him off or just buck. If you are hit once there is no solution, you are on the ground and he will hit you again, then you cant run fast anymore because you broke you back or legs, then he just chases and ur dead

[cyan flame]

I have yes, just like that's happened with pretty much every other playable aside from stego (and I really should stop playing if I somehow get ambushed by a stego to be honest). I'm not sure how that relates to the argument, any playable can jump another one and get their ability off, carno charge, pachy ram, omni pounce, and so on.

[cyan flame]

Our current "utahraptor" that will be getting a name change.

[delicate crystal]

epic

[cyan flame]

Hence why I write it as omni/utah. Trying to both show namechange and also make sure you and others know what playable I'm talking about.

[delicate crystal]

mmmk

[cyan flame]

Buck is rather useless really, it doesn't actually negate the pounce, and it drains your stam as well, especially if you're moving. Sure, you can use rock or tree, but again, those don't really "fix" the matchups, and only leads to boring "interaction" if anything (also requires those to be near, which then is on the omni to wait and attack when the target is not near them, and all that). And well, both sides can have friends, so there's that then, the omni can also have friends like the pachy can, to help with distractions and attacks. If you get knocked down, you messed up, and even then you can survive. You can escape with a head fracture and most likely a body fracture too. Leg fracture I can grant you, but then you did mess up, and pachy is meant to be "anti-omni" in a sense. It's supposed to be a dangerous fight. Not to mention that you can still kind of juke the ram at that.

[delicate crystal]

its just annoying that you have to ether bite a pachy 10 times or have friends to back you up while the pachy can just click once and you are probobly dead or gonna have a real bad time getting oway

[cyan flame]

Like I said, with pounce, you kill the pachy faster than rams kill you. I think people tested that, pachy needs far more attacks to kill the omni, than the omni needs to kill the pachy. And you're not really meant to "bite" it, pounce is your primary weapon. Also keep in mind you're a bleeder, an attrition hunter, so take your time and don't rush the fight. The pachy is meant to be a hard fight for a solo omni, and even then, in general the fight is still in the favour of the omni overall.

[delicate crystal]

how many times have you been able to kill a pachy as a solo utha

because ether you are major pro at utha

or i am the worst utha player

[cyan flame]

Me, I don't think I've had that matchup in very long, if at all, mostly because I tend to play stego and lately I've just been taking random eggs more often than not because afkgrowing is boring. But I know the variables of the playables, and I've seen plenty of people pull these fights off. Same way I know that two deinos can take out a stego, even if I've not personally been part of it, because there's vids of people pulling it off. Just like there's vids of solo omnis pulling off taking down a stego or carno 1v1, despite how impossible that might seem.

So I'm not arguing that I can do it, I'm arguing that it's doable and that if you look at the stats and mechanics, and how they work, the omni has the general advantage. And other people have tested out the whole "hits to kill" with pounce vs ram, and concluded that pounce will kill the pachy before the rams kill the omni.

And I don't think you're bad, more so that maybe your approach to hunting the pachy isn't ideal. In general, you do want to get the ambush and the pounce, because that'll immediately put the pachy in a very bad position. Then it's a matter of harassing it, trying to bait it to waste stam, while regaining your own.

[delicate crystal]

while the utha may be able to kill the pachy in less hits, the pachy also stunns them with everyhit, so its realy 2 hits to 1

[cyan flame]

But in general, you have the speed and mobility advantage, the ram is rather visual and can be baited (which also gives a good opening to pounce at that), and so on. I'd be more worried about the alt that, last I checked, also knocks you down and is probably more likely to get you.

You can bait the alt "swing" as well, though it might be slightly more dangerous, not sure on that one.

[delicate crystal]

I did that 30 min ago, i pounced a pachy in the field and it had no idea that i was near by, it bucked and i jumped off with quarter stam and landed next to water, where i then jump across the small river [south shallows] it followed me, clicked once and knocked me on my ass, I tried to get up and i got knocked on my ass, then got up, couldnt run because me legs broke, and then he just kills me

after it touched me i got oblitorated

[cyan flame]

Did it run you down then? Because last I checked, omni is faster than pachy? Did you run out of stam?

[delicate crystal]

no when i went over the river i still had to swim just a bit and the pachy could swim faster

[cyan flame]

Did you jump across/into the water? Did the pachy? Because that honestly also sounds odd, I don't recall either of them being good swimmers, but I'm not sure which one is faster of the two. Would have to test that to be sure.

[rare fractal]

That’s absolutely a user error, Utah has more stam and is faster than Pachy

[limber hull]

They have the same stam, but utah is faster

[proud coral]

I get the disliking for the locked camera idea, but I actually love the idea.

HOWEVER I agree it should at least allow stuff to see to the sides of em. Could even vary per species 😛 (eg; Paras see to the sides much easier/better than something like Rex which is more focused downwards)

Just no eyes in the back of your head pls

[faint folio]

I haven't raced them, but I'm willing to bet Utah is faster when swimming. Pachys are obnoxiously slow swimmers

[rare fractal]

Why do you love the idea….actually why

It only acts as an annoyance that reducing skill expression for detecting threats whilst making a stealthy approach far less important

[proud coral]

Because I believe you should only see what your dino sees. You have ears 😛

[rare fractal]

3rd person mode be like….

[faint folio]

@slate gale remember that climbing is WIP. It is still actively being modified-- as can be seen by the Herrera literally sliding sideways across the cliff. I'm certain the final mechanic will have more polish. Though also... The "smooth" rock thing could just be an issue of texture being used on the test map boulder

[proud coral]

If you're not drinking or eating, you can turn your head all you want, so it makes sense you could see behind ye 😛

Also a mosquito is currently trying to prevent me from typing

🦟

[rare fractal]

Well yeah, but Insta kill lightning doesn’t become a good idea because lightning rods exist on the map to stand next to (weird example I know, but a solution to a mechanical problem doesn’t justify the existence of the mechanic)

And tbh it takes away more than it adds, especially from the hunting process

[proud coral]

I just personally don't see too much of an issue with not having eyes in the back of your head when your dino clearly isn't looking behind itself

Like if I'm an Omni(🤓 ) and I see something like a Pachy drinking, I might slowly try to sneak up on it. But it could still hear me or stop at any second. Rather than right now where despite it being turned completely away from me, it just sees me because reasons.

[rare fractal]

I don’t see much of an issue with our POV being above the dinosaurs middle back despite its eyes not being located there…this is a suspension of disbelief that I think is more than worth having

[faint folio]

Honestly I have mixed feelings about it. On one hand it adds a new niche for ambush carnivores to exploit, and additional care must be taken to make sure you are safe when eating. On the other hand-- different eye positions allow quite a wide range of vision. Horses for example can see 300 degrees-- pretty much everything around them except for a narrow 60 degree blind spot at their rump

[proud coral]

I think it's at least worth trying out <:3 I get the disliking for it though, easy thing to mess up.

[rare fractal]

It’s not necessarily care as much as it is choosing an arbitrary direction to hope something doesn’t attack you from, it’s by definition an extra factor to consider but I don’t think it’s worth it for the drawbacks

[icy lion]

I see no reason to not have species-specific cones of vision

[proud coral]

^^^ I think it'd be pretty interesting

[icy lion]

Like Docktor's post, herbis could, on average, have a much larger view range when eating/drinking than carnis

[proud coral]

Like Para is just paranoid 24/7 and has horse vision whereas Omni is stinky so it only sees a bit to the sides

[proud coral]

[faint folio]

As a middle ground, I think rather than a hard lock a pan angle could be made-- herbis with side facing eyes obviously having a greater field of view available when eating, and dinos with very tight binocular vision being limited when their head is not free to move

[icy lion]

I think it's something worth trying out, if it doesn't work out then it doesn't

[rare fractal]

That’s the best middle ground but it still sucks

[proud coral]

Also encourages players to pay more attention with other senses than just sight. Listen carefully, choose the best times to settle down and eat/drink etc.

We kinda get that with Deino, but that's more so "be careful or lame insta kill"

Adds a sense of paranoia which is g o o d

[rare fractal]

I’d argue that care is irrelevant when it’s entirely random chance, but that’s a whole different can of worms

[proud coral]

That reminds me, I need to make my worm suggestion but I just made one so I guess cooldown ;o;

[faint folio]

^ that and it also opens the door for more pack/herd like behaviors. In real life, usually at least 1-2 group members stand watch while everyone else tucks in, and they rotate. Thus the group covers their blind spots

[rare fractal]

You could’ve made the holy work suggestion but chose not to

[proud coral]

[faint folio]

I realize that realism doesn't immediately justify game mechanics, but as the point is survival, the game is going to add limitations that players must learn to adapt to. Not much different than having AI with specific behaviors you have to counter to hunt them

[rare fractal]

I guess I’m just stuck on the idea of making eating or drinking more difficult than they already are….gore isn’t going to come with organ sorting and thrashing which will without a doubt attract attention, the only way I think this reasonably works is if footsteps across the board are made audible from further away

[proud coral]

Sound in general needs some love.

[rare fractal]

It’s also important to note that realistic modifiers don’t justify themselves because they add variables to consider, which I suppose is proved by the existence of this discussion

[faint folio]

Or, like I said... Patrol the area and make sure it's safe before eating, or have a friend to watch while you eat

[rare fractal]

it’s a variable with a solution, I don’t think that justifies its inclusion tho

[faint folio]

Honestly in many cases I think the sound of footsteps is too loud (at least for walking/trotting). Sprinting is obviously going to make a racket

[rare fractal]

I think they’re loud when up close but inaudible from too short a distance

Hence the specification of range over volume

[proud coral]

Ye got things like Carno walking on crunchy grass being fine, but the second it hits dirt-T H U N K T H U N K T H U N K

Sounds like it's on plastic

[limber hull]

i personally really like the idea of locked camera movement, as long as you have a decent range of vision (180 degrees in the direction you're facing)

[proud coral]

[rare fractal]

I’d add that as a baseline across the board with extended range for animals without binocular vision

[faint folio]

But by that logic, why have drinking and a water stat? It's a variable with a solution, but doesn't it just make survival more complicated?? Why have trees interact with and knock Utah's off of pounce, or knock dinos out of deinos mouth? It's a variable with a solution, but does that justify having it as part of the combat?

Do you see the problem with that argument? You can say that about literally any mechanic in the game

[rare fractal]

No I don’t, both are examples of the principle I described, them being solutions doesn’t justify their inclusion, I’d prefer for mechanics to be a bit more purposed than that, looking at their positives and negatives instead of the amount of modifiers they add.
That’s why I specify that it’s “not enough”, like I’m not totally opposed to it currently (hindered vision range not locked vision, locked vision is awful).
Utahs being knocked off by trees is a response to buck being a poor counter, which is an integral part of balancing Omni for the entire roster, the viability of everything hinges on mechanics like that existing.
Now, does that mean it’s the end all for mechanics countering pounce? No, in fact I think there should be much more, that mechanic in general needs more complexity to it, the flaw with using that as an example is that it relies on me thinking it’s a completely and fully justified mechanical counter, which I don’t.
Drinking is a different story, and honestly I could go either way with it, many elements of drinking as a system coalesce to form it, how long animals need to go to drink, what sources are drinkable, the dangers associated with those locations if any, it’s a system comprised of many other mechanical elements, so that’s a more extensive conversation. Tho if we want to go with the angle that drinking is intrinsic to these animals being animals, that is still contestable since these are all genetically enhance freaks of biology, so even that has a workaround tho silly as it may be….drinking can be explored more at the end of the day.

[cyan flame]

Now we just need climbing sideways and downwards and we're good. I want to be a xenomorph herrera! Oh and the shrike thing with putting skeleton parts on spiky tree branches, for that added touch!

[rare fractal]

Xeno herrera is best Herrera

[proud coral]

If only it made the deep grumbles the Xenos in AvP2010 did

[rare fractal]

I still prefer the OG shrill shrieking

https://tenor.com/view/aliens-aliens-movie-scary-creepy-gif-5951657

[faint folio]

Well, them being examples of the principle you described was kind of the point.

I could extend the drinking argument and say why have a hunger and food stat? It's a variable with a solution, but does it justify adding it to the game? It forces herbivores to have to deal with fights with carnivores regularly (and sometimes ambushes! That you may not detect in time). And the carnivores can literally starve!

What about diets, stamina bars, drowning, etc etc.... Every mechanic in the game is a variable that has a solution, that if the player does not account for, then they lose the game. Those variables are often fundamentally arbitrary-- even hunger/thirst when you look at it doesn't have to be added to the game, despite it being a genre standard.

I'm not saying that locked vision doesn't have issues, because it does, but limiting the conversation to "well it's adds another variable that makes it harder to survive that players have to account for, but it doesn't have a good justification for it" makes it impossible to have a well rounded discussion of pros and cons and why the devs might think this is worth adding

[cyan flame]

Also for locked camera, easy solution, just be stego! You get vision in front/sideways (hopefully), and who's going to attack you from behind anyway, that's just asking to die when you blindly swing because you thought you heard something.

[proud coral]

Full on "no, only directly forwards" is a bit lame, ye. But species-varying side viewing seems neat

[cyan flame]

But on a more serious note, I'm not entirely opposed to trying out the camera lock, as long as you can freely look in front and to the sides, just not behind you.

[proud coral]

I can see (pun) Trike having awesome FoV

🎙️

[cyan flame]

Wouldn't the frill get in the way?

[proud coral]

Trying to remember how the frill looks

[cyan flame]

Ceratopsids being unable to see much because large frill right there!

[proud coral]

[cyan flame]

Yes. Herrera having shrill shrieks and calls would be cool, but it's current noises are plenty good!

[rare fractal]

Well I suppose the point of my response to you was to highlight how we’re not in opposition, my only goal was to get more description as to why these mechanics add more than they negate with examples, because that’s how I prefer to discuss mechanics instead of the vague “it’s interesting and another survival element”.

I think you’ve fundamentally misunderstood my position because your quote of my stance is actually the opposite of what I’ve advocated for XD
My position if needed to be quoted is “I’m dissatisfied with the justification of it being an additional survival mechanic as a reason to add the mechanic, that’s too simple, and more pragmatic arguments should be made instead”

I want the discussion to be, as you put it, a well rounded discussion, but I don’t think a reason to add it should be a standard equally applicable to all mechanics in game regardless of quality. Hence me pointing out that that my outlined principle applies to basically everything.

Because justifications that can be applied to everything, both bad and good, are useless justifications

So I think we entirely agree on this….in principle ofc

[proud coral]

One thing I hope for with the camera stuff is a smooth transition between free-cam and locked-cam

Like if I'm looking somewhere else, decided to eat and it just snaps the camera instantly.....that'd be a wee bit bad

[rare fractal]

Ew imagine instant cuts…

[proud coral]

Sounds very-👈

[rare fractal]

Woah dock that may be taking it too far

[proud coral]

[faint folio]

But we've given more pragmatic pros/cons.

Pro: would help ambush predators that know to exploit a chosen prey's limited fov when eating, especially in open fields with limited natural cover available for stalking

Con: prey can be surprised if not hyper-alert and using other senses

Pro: encourages more group cooperation, especially for small species that are already at most risk of being ambushed due to pin mechanics. Watch dog style

Con: possibly easier setup for predators who need less stalking skill to ambush prey that can't look everywhere when their head is immobile

Pro: Adds additional benefits to patrolling/surveying/securing areas before eating

Con: depending on implementation, may limit animals with wide fields of view too much, especially those that need more warning to avoid predation due to slow acceleration

Pro: encourages greater reliance on senses that are not vision-- listening, smell, etc

Pro: for a horror style game, there's something to be said for mechanics that increase tension. Nothing may happen, but it could. It's one reason Alien or Jaws works well as horror films-- they rarely show the actual monster, but the threat of not seeing it is in itself the majority of the fear factor. (You could argue deino functions similarly, but because it is almost a guaranteed kill after a lunge, it loses a lot of the fear, because it becomes an environmental hazard-- if a deino is there, there's not a lot you can do about it so why worry?)

Hiding danger is so effective because humans have really good vision, and most of our other senses are really bad. We can't smell danger (or much of anything) like a lot of animals, we also have somewhat average hearing. A monster we cant see is scary because seeing is knowing

[cyan flame]

It might work better if there's also quick reactions to stop eating/drinking, like the quick stand up, a sort of "stop and back up" movement or something.

That would probably make the camera lock feel better, since you now have an ability to react if you do suspect something, instead of slowly stopping your feeding and then trying to move

[faint folio]

Yes exactly! Most animals irl can bolt if they sense danger while eating or drinking. In game that should be accompanied by a higher Stam drain for the extra effort of a quick reaction

[proud coral]

Makes me think of how Dryo (at least it did if it doesn't anymore) takes 30 years to stop eating.....

[cyan flame]

Would actually give you some kind of counterplay to deino lunge if you could do a quick "back up" movement, well, maybe not counterplay but something at least. And yes, some critters take ages to stop eating, so no real help to have a friend sound the alert if you can't move in time.

[rare fractal]

Right this is exactly the kind of stuff I appreciate.
And these have been presented, I just don’t like it when these kinds of detailed points are mixed in with the generic “it adds survival mechanics”, which I could’ve made more clear earlier.
This is good…these can actually be discussed.

In regards to surveying an area, I think map traffic sorta renders that irrelevant, unless player interaction becomes significantly scarcer than it is currently your “report” of an areas security is borderline meaningless because a traveling predator can just as easily stumble upon you eating…I’d shy away from that and focus more on group interactivity, which is a genuinely good point.

In regards to built tension, eating already has this, if you haven’t spotted a predator but are currently scanning every bit of the environment around you, the fear and tension is still there…and on a personal note I find this more effective than agency of my spatial awareness being hindered to afford predators an easier approach, because it introduces more luck than it would’ve without, which shatters tension for me…tho that’s entirely subjective but I know I’m not alone in that. It’s much like deino but to a far lesser severity. And tbh the tension for me would be undermined by the direction of approach for ambushers becoming more predictable, as the rear would become the objectively best angle to attack most creatures with a system like this, it goes from “a predator is likely to be in any bush or grove around me” to “a predator is likely behind me because that’s the angle it has advantages in.

Encouraging a greater reliance on non visual senses is something I’d define as a neutral, I don’t know what of that is definitively good. I’m using my hearing when I’m scanning my surroundings unhindered because I can only look one way at a time.

[summer thistle]

let's be honest, not a single person likes the locked camera veiw thing

[rare fractal]

I’d prefer the game without it but I can see a version of it that isn’t hell to play with, but if I could choose an ideal version of it, or just lacking it, I’d choose to lack it

[proud coral]

https://tenor.com/view/the-simpsons-homer-simpson-bush-hide-bye-gif-16150806

[faint folio]

For surveying an area-- honestly I see this more useful for larger dinos with smaller pack sizes like apexes--, who simply should be rare enough that accidentally bumping into another dino that has a serious chance of killing you is somewhat rare. Also, the migration system and diet changes have been said to focus on spreading out dinos, particularly those that would be OP working together. But regardless, the fact that they will be spread out more also implies a slightly lower chance of something bumping into you while eating.

Smaller dinos are a lot more likely to have packs, (and more predators that can kill them should an interaction occur), so they should rely more on guards taking watch rather than patrolling. It is intended to be adapted for group size and dino tier, as it should.

As for tension... I think it, again, depends on the predator. A lone predator is most likely to attack from behind, but groups are a lot more likely to feint an attack from behind and actually commit from another direction. There's still a lot of player creativity involved, especially when everyone is aware of and takes measures to guard an "obvious" weakness.

Hearing has its place in all game interactions, but I don't think it's necessarily bad to encourage players to focus more on certain senses in particular situations. Much like you focus more on scent for tracking a hunt in progress, or hearing at night when you cannot see. The interesting thing about the mechanic is that it asks players to come up with creative solutions or approach the problem in a different way than they normally would

[proud coral]

If hearing is gonna be more important (which is good), I hope they give SFX some love. Like footsteps and calls call intensity hnng are just kinda....odd right now.

Ptera is an example. Their broadcast is either a bit far away or RIGHTBYYOU. There's never any real distance you feel with it. Other calls have this issue as well, it's just really obvious with Ptera.

No real echos except with Stegos

[faint folio]

True on pteras and most other calls (pachy 3 call louder than 1 call?)

[proud coral]

From recent streams, echos seem to be more noticeable, so that's good.

[icy lion]

Based on Wedge's blogposts it seems like he's been touching up sounds where he can (though of course he's focused on making new sounds for the map and incoming dinos)

The most recent blog mentioned "balance and quality of footsteps sounds" which yes please, those are all over the place

[faint folio]

The issue with for example a lightning strike mechanic is that there is no creative solution and it doesn't encourage players to think. It simply comes down to "stay within X feet of a lightning rod, tree, rock, or cave, or be smote"

[proud coral]

Carno steps on grass: krsh krsh krsh

Steps on dirt: THOOM THOOM THOOM

[faint folio]

Lol yeah

[proud coral]

Like why does dirt sound so friggn' hollow

[faint folio]

I mean grass will be slightly muted but not THAT much XD

[proud coral]

It sounds like stepping on a plastic barrel

When I think of dirt, I think of like.....krrsh, cuush, knnsh

Totally understandable via text.

🤓

[limber hull]

i like it, i just think people misunderstand what is meant by it

[rare fractal]

Mhm, which is why I define the use of hearing over vision as neutral, because your simply engaging your ears, there’s nothing particularly creative about that solution it’s sorta hardwired into your anatomy XD

And as far as tension, again the method of approach becomes more predictable regardless, blind spots beget exploitation so it WILL be more likely regardless of potential pack subversion of that expectation, so regardless it damages that tension for me.

I think it’s a mistake to define the aptitude of a Dino’s vision by its size predominantly, like for example, I expect herreras to mostly run solo, but I’d expect their locked vision to be more standard or constructed because their hunting method involves a lot of precision, and less time spent on the ground, meaning their chances of being attacked from multiple angles is lower than that if a Galli or Pachy, which I’d expect to have pretty decent to above average locked vision considering their matchups and locations…both generally existing in semi open to WIDE open areas dealing with predators that come in numbers more often than not, further justified by the design of the eyes in orientation.
Like I’d almost balance vision by how vulnerable the animal generally is while eating or drinking if that makes any sense

[limber hull]

you arent going to be unable to move your mouse while eating lmao

[rare fractal]

Well, we have nothing to prove that isn’t the intention tbf, tho I don’t think it’s likely

[limber hull]

im not specifically referring to you, it just seems like the idea people have

[proud coral]

Dinosaur: Eats food

Glad they're gonna use the stress testing team to try it out first

Though then again.....weren't there issues with the stress testing team last time?

[rare fractal]

Oh ofc I never assumed you focused me

[limber hull]

yea i honestly dont know how to feel about the stress testing team

last i heard, the stress test was a toxic, inactive content farm primarily used to be milked by content creators and not much else

[proud coral]

[limber hull]

While I'm not usually one to complain about update times, I do feel that having a private stress test at this juncture will just add more salt to the proverbial wound

People literally just want the update at this point

[faint folio]

My point was that a fair bit of players don't engage other senses enough-- a good chunk do simply just use vision 90% of the time unless vision is heavily obscured (as in jungle or night). I do meet players that rely heavily on sound, but they are few and far between.

I wasn't defining their aptitude of vision by their size, but rather, how they deal with the limitation of their vision (whatever that may be) is likely dependent on size, group structure, fighting style, etc. Utah's may have limited field of vision, but they often run in large packs, so they have friends that can watch their blind spots when eating and alert to danger. Rexes will likely have pack size of two, which means (combined with their narrow vision range and their health), they will be less likely to use the guard style due to being often alone, and so they may take a more territorial/patrolling approach to guarding kills. A smaller carnivore would likely still use such a style if they were running solo, or like the Herrera may be able to carry food to a safer location for consumption.

As far as herbivores, most have wider field of vision, especially if they live in wide open areas, to spot danger from any direction. I'd expect pachys and gallis to have decent range of vision in game for this reason, although as they have larger group sizes they may have limited fov to increase the benefit of packing behavior and group defense. More solo dinos I would expect have larger fov to accommodate smaller group sizes and put them at less of a disadvantage

[gritty terrace]

@young hornet its completely different, it is additive rather then constrictive. you are still able to see outside of the radius while in legacy it blacks out everything outside of the radius. for the first week there was a much more different night vision where it outlined everything but it caused major photosensitivity issues so they did this one

also making everything visible in moonlight is not the best idea, youd see less than what we are able to see now unless you make it unreasonably bright which you might as well just keep it day all the time

if you don't want to play something where it will be dark don't play a survival horror game where night time is one of the biggest mechanics

[proud coral]

Evrima NV being so seamless also allows external light sources to be visible such as flashlights and even moonlight. Anything a flashlight lights up in NV just looks normal.

[gritty terrace]

yeah, the night vision we have rn I genuinely thinks is perfect and would be hard to make better

[burnt bone]

@unreal ridge you realize that doesnt just apply to para, that would apply to practically every stun in the game. If anything, pachyrhino is going to be your worst nightmare. Imagine a 4-6 ton pachy, able to shatter the kneecaps of every mid-tier and below.

Plus, there are other ways to negate mixpacking and abuse of the mechanic. A: keep para away from most strong apexes, but shares a limited food source with the few it lives near. That way other apex herbivores wont like the herd of paras eating all their food and will likely attack them. B: similar to pachy and teno, make a stun immunity timer, so they cant just spam it.

[gritty terrace]

@vocal pumice Kapro is not being added, people have been saying add it recently but the devs have not confirmed anything about it and it would not fit in the game because other playables can already do what kapro can do, just play deino or megalainia

[unreal ridge]

Still, a kick would be a better more versatile option and I’m not saying for para to full donkey just raise one leg, kick the side the player is looking

If para is meant to run away then it’s ability should be used to help it run away

Even if the kick is abused, para is still going to be squishy, this attack is meant to stun and if para repeatedly tries to attack something large with a kick, chances are it’s going to get grabbed and shaken or whatever they announced

[lapis swallow]

@topaz pendant did you think about the mixpacking capabilities the nest tracker would bring?

[topaz pendant]

Ah

Just though that hatchlings are good easy food for pteras to eat but the parents can protect them cus rn the majority of pteras diet / things it can kill are ai

[runic steppe]

Y’all should consider that maybe other herbis get stunned along with the carnis

By the para sonic ability I mean

[faint folio]

Yeah that would help prevent abuse of it

[runic steppe]

It’s the only logical solution

[urban flax]

It felt obvious to me that other herbs would be stunned too
I don't see a reason why they wouldn't

[runic steppe]

Same

[small anchor]

@barren zephyr i love the idea but at wich % babys will be excluded out of group? bc they cannot stay in it in the full growing time bc they can rach adult-full adult and bypass the max capacity

[barren zephyr]

So when they are able to mate they they get excluded. Sorry, was meant to put that detail in.

There, added that in 🙂

@rare fractal yeah I agree with your suggestion. A lot of the colours are kinda muted or are too dull and dark. The whole character customisation needs a big improvement not just with colour but with body details and we need more patterns 🙂

[rare fractal]

Oh especially on the point of customization, I'm not someone that wants complete species swapping as a transmog option but stuff like minor horn or claw variations, skin features, patterns, etc. need expansion. As long as it doesn't mess with a players understanding of the creature's hitbox.
And yeah I don't know why the game looks so......gray...for a lack of better terms.
Makes me miss Thenyaw environments and lighting....save for the nights

[barren zephyr]

I guess the devs are focused on other things right now :/

[rare fractal]

Ironic considering what the last update was

[barren zephyr]

Agreed @rare fractal btw I love your profile pic 😆

[shy cloak]

@trim mauve your points are factual.

[rare fractal]

Thanks xD
I have seasonal variants of it but I forgot where I placed my halloween one, so at least it's close to christmas

[proud coral]

Concept art just gives an idea, yet people are treating it like it's gonna happen as shown 100% of the time. That's the problem.

[rare fractal]

I don't have a problem with people criticizing the idea as tho it's being planned for implementation, that's how ideas are vetted, hence concept art

[trim mauve]

perhaps

[proud coral]

Yeah that's fine. But some people see it and think "oh the image shows it running away. That must mean it ALWAYS does that and CAN'T EVER fight back"

I can understand wanting it to be depicted less wimpy though.

[manic flint]

When it's a pattern, ie in allos and Paras concept art showing para getting dunked on by Allo, it's safe to assume that it's intended

[rare fractal]

Tbf it's the only representation para has, assuming that isn't it's viable option with the mountain of consistent evidence and dev statements would be a reach

[shy cloak]

^

[fading iron]

Hadrosaurs are herbivores with no amor, spikes or horns therefore they are weak and can't fight - 🤓

[rare fractal]

Food on legs...clearly

[manic flint]

Honestly, the parasaurolophus concept art looks like it belongs to Corythosaurus

[proud coral]

I just kinda see it as a common sense thing, like why wouldn't it be able to fight it? Plus I wanna say they have yet to choose it's size, so they may go with a smaller Para (which would honestly be pretty pathetic....)

If it legitimately can't fight Allo whatsoever though, then yeah that's an issue. But until it's actually in our hands, I'd rather not assume too much.

[manic flint]

Losing fights to Allo and the like

[proud coral]

Plus the devs have constantly stressed the whole survival aspect of things. Like with the whole "why would Para go toe-to-toe with Allo" thing. Eventually that was cleared up as "you CAN fight it, but why when you can run?"

So yeah, survival wise Para should run.

[rare fractal]

Common sense isn't something I appeal to with this game, several dinos have defied it.....and even if we go with a 3-4 ton smaller para it'd still annihilate an allo it's just....big

[rare fractal]

Nesting is a good example of why a para would fight an allo

[proud coral]

In those scenarios, sure. 😛

But if you're just chillin' and there's an Allo, it'd be best to run away.

[manic flint]

It should run, yes
But from what is what I hold an issue with. They depict it running from an allosaurus, which a parasaurolophus shouldn't be all that afraid of. Acro totally, but I feel like using allosaurus as the main example is pushing it a bit far

Why shouldn't the Allo be the one to run?

[fading iron]

The fear of being injured is why the Para would run. Injury leads to infection, infection leads to death

[proud coral]

^

Why fight which is risky when you can run which is MUCH safer

You CAN, but survival wise it's a dumb idea

[manic flint]

Fair, it is safer
But it feels like it is almost mandatory

[fading iron]

True

[proud coral]

Let's hope it isn't <:P

[rare fractal]

Well now we're not even on the topic of para's capability, we're on player choice, I don't think that's particularly relevant

[uneven mist]

And the animals in the concepts are portrayed as animals, like how animals would react not animals controlled by humans

[proud coral]

That too

[rare fractal]

Oh god could you imagine if they were? The entire concept art would just be sonic stun curbstomping

[proud coral]

"ADMINNN"

[uneven mist]

A human playing as a para would fight the allo but also if the para was like actual animal would choose to run and fight if cornered

[shy cloak]

Even irl para wouldn’t be scared to fight an allo.

[uneven mist]

Yeah pretty much

[uneven mist]

It could because of stress and so on but yeah that too

[manic flint]

Same goes for the Allo
Trying to pick a fight with an animal almost 3 times it's size

[uneven mist]

And because you know, it doesn’t want to get hurt or infected

[manic flint]

This is a two way street

[rare fractal]

Yeah there's absolutely no chance an allo would go for a para, realistically it'd only go for animals half it's size unless a freak horde incident occured

Cuz allo's weren't pack hunters...ironically

[shy cloak]

Dont give the allo hunted sauropod statement pls

[fading iron]

Trample all those below your size

[shy cloak]

So it should hunt para

[fading iron]

Ngl nothing is scarier than a herd of large hadrosaurs booking it towards your direction

[rare fractal]

Hunted old, dying sauropods, in randomized hordes....letting the sauropod do most of the work

[uneven mist]

But yeah para should be able to defend itself from a lone allo or Alberto or even kill them, a pack of allo’s or a group of Alberto’s tho are a different story

And I think it wil

[proud coral]

Also something I realized about the concept arts is that the sizes usually aren't accurate, so in Allo's art of it attacking Paras.....it could theoretically possibly maybe perhaps be a sub-Para it's going after 😛 Hard to tell but ye never know

[manic flint]

But the crests are full size

Not like short and stubby

[proud coral]

True

[uneven mist]

There is one animal tho that I don’t think para should be able to fight and that’s acro, sure if it’s cornered or it’s protecting its young it would fight but probably wouldn’t win that fight either

[shy cloak]

Anything acro sized or larger it makes sense for para to run, but something small like allo, cmon para is going to defend its self not run, depending on its health.

[manic flint]

It should definitely lose that fight one on one
But a 3v2 or a 2v1 would be more even

[rare fractal]

Yeah....I guess it'd have a shot but not a good one

[uneven mist]

Yeah a lone allo or Alberto it should be able to defend itself and kill. A pack of allo’s or a group of Alberto’s tho are a different story but I also think it wil go to that route (where para is able to fend of a lonely allo and so on)

[uneven mist]

Especially since our acro is a goddam tank from the looks of it

He’s beefed up

[proven river]

@rare crescent , The running take off already consumes less stamina lol

[small anchor]

At witch % able to mate?

[barren zephyr]

I don't know about each species % as to when they can mate but I do know Utahs can mate at 80%

[small anchor]

I dont think that would be nice, thats bypassing the overpacking limit and utahs 80% can be a trouble with others 8 at 100% and lets suppose there are just 5 babies that made it to 80, imagine that

If yall complain about how utahs "op" are that would make this worse i guess bc when they just get off the "main group" i dont think that they will just get far away from the utahs, yk

Idk if you understand what I mean

[barren zephyr]

Well 80% was my initial idea, you don't have to take it as set in stone, it's a place for ideas and loose discussions after all. Maybe when they become an adolescent (not sure what % that is) they could be kicked from group? Always feel free to add to my ideas, I welcome it 🙂

[surreal sedge]

i think the amount of mechanics the game is going to have when the roster is done is just fine, dont need to micromanage temperature too along with all the other stuff

[small anchor]

Ik ik, i love it btw i said but i was just saying, imagine.. If they complain a lot about 100% utahs in group, imagine that overpacking with 80% as example XD

[barren zephyr]

@blissful helm yes, brilliant idea. Certain weathers should definitely give buffs, debuffs and new behaviours. It could even make changes to the landscape like landslides or temporary droughts, if that can be achieved. Maybe some creatures will need to find cover coz they don't like rain or the cold, others may hate being in the heat for too long. A good balance of weather and temperatures giving its pros and cons for each dino. It would add immersion and interesting behaviour patterns.

[barren zephyr]

Yeah yeah I get you mate lol but they over pack already so it wouldn't really change what already happens xD

As long as the devs add more balance that will be the key to making all this fair 😊

[small anchor]

kskksskjsk yes 😊

[tidal prawn]

@drifting umbra how cool would it be to have a waterhole where carnis and herbis meet to drink in peace like in a movie or some

[drifting umbra]

Waterhole of Peace that would be absolutely awesome, I think the isle community is Def capable of doing it, there's alot of good people in this community, but just imagine hehe

[tidal prawn]

Yeah maybe I have luck with that in a community server I just love this idea of a little peace in a cruel survival environment

[frank osprey]

Lmao oasis 2.0

[mild walrus]

Um is that real, the dilo having those gross hairs on its back?

[limber hull]

i mean

you can see it for yourself

[jovial otter]

I love the gross hairs let me be a stinky ratty dilo

[jade schooner]

I’d be more concerned about the hair under its chin, lol.

It’s alright tho, I kinda like it

[frank osprey]

We won’t see it in game for atleast another 2 years anyway

[fathom tulip]

I feel like the people worried about the "gross hairs" on the Dilo are forgetting this is supposed to be a horror game

They are adding in gore and tearing out organs, the game is meant to be unsettling

[burnt bone]

I think making it look gross works. It’s supposed to be a night terror, so creepy and unkempt work for it. It’s like the type of dino you don’t want to meet alone in a dark alley.

However, if they don’t do this or make it the elder, then I’m fine either way. But this is a much more cool design personally

[jade schooner]

I agree with Minmi lad above

[violet magnet]

they could fully commit to this and just have their dino design aesthetic be "survival-horror gross-looking dino"
i mean they did it with acro and alberto and spino already, too

[limber hull]

i think it works really well with what they want for dilo

this is a nocturnal nightmare predator that literally causes you to hallucinate and fills your blood with venom

[urban flax]

I love the new dilo design too. It has much more personnality than the old one, which was pretty bland.

[gritty terrace]

once again why are people asking for anky trail cam, it's a high tier apex and it will not be anywhere close to done anytime soon 💀

[pure quiver]

I see an average of three kinds of feedback...

1. I have bad luck, I keep dying in a way I think is unfair and your game sucks, make it easier for me.
2. Weird or easily abusable ideas
3. Good ones

Sometimes I see "Bring back X idea from legacy", or even "Introduce X idea from X game"

Myself included! I unintentionally suggested an idea that was introduced in Beasts of Bermuda already

[gritty terrace]

I did say referencing Stalker for humans may be a good idea 💀

also @sand lantern it would be a neat idea if strains didn't exist, that was going to be the thing that Tisso strains could do but now since Tisso is being redone it is no longer confirmed but I bet that will be an ability for some type of strain eventually

it seems like a bit much to be added on a normal playable

[rare crescent]

I suggest reducing the stam even more, because now that are not so significant that running is used as often as taking off on the spot. The run-up takes more time, and is generally more dangerous (if someone is chasing you), so the difference in costs now is not so tangible as to use the run-up in dangerous moments.

[proven river]

@jaunty basin Hate to break it to ya but the devs made it explicitly clear they never make ETA's, look I'm frustrated too, there's nothing you can do about it ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[minor yarrow]

I've noticed that feedback ups and downs are usually rated by the social appeal the poster has within the discord rather than whether it's a good or viable gameplay change

[limber hull]

thats not at all how it works lmao

[minor yarrow]

Like that time I suggested introducing more aquatic creatures and a diverse biome of salt/brackish/salt water and then a couple people were like ooh I can't wait for his reaction or w/e I forget how it went or was related too but I'm scrolling through some of the feedbacks and I'm just noticing some stuff

[limber hull]

i literally dont know what you mean by that lmao

people downvote if they disagree with you, not because of some personal secret popularity bias

[minor yarrow]

Secret? Who said anything about secret

[limber hull]

people downvote if they disagree with you, not because of some personal popularity bias

if that makes it any clearer

[minor yarrow]

If you had a "popular" person make a suggestion and an "unpopular" person make a suggestion it is psychologically proven that regardless of if the idea is the best idea ever that the popular person would get the vote even if it is detrimental to development

It's also proven that if a popular person is disregard you then others will follow in suite

[limber hull]

pesky has been downvoted the hell out of and he has 40k subs on youtube, this entire conspiracy theory is completely unfounded

[burnt bone]

It also has to deal with how you word it. I can say these 2 things and get completely different responses, but they say the same thing.

PACHY IS TOO WEAK. There’s no point in playing it when utah is just better in every way. Buff pachy’s damage to destroy utah again.
Or
Pachy is a bit weak currently. A pounce from utah does roughly half its bleed, which both cripples its stamina, forces it to move less, and 2-shots it. Meanwhile pachy has to hit 5 charged rams to kill a utah. Thus, I believe pachy should have its damage buffed to help it deal with utahs.

Top one is likely just going to be treated like a crying child and downvoted, the second likely will have more consideration and upvoted.

[limber hull]

people are downvoting your suggestion because they don't want to spawn in and realise they got the genetic short end of the stick and are set up to die so that the stronger animals can survive. It's cool on paper, but in practice, it'd be fundamentally unfun to realise you got a runt animal with less weight, speed and strength than its peers and be automatically doomed to die if anything came to fight you (especially a stronger member of your own kind)

[minor yarrow]

Then there's also the concept where that people will be more apt to add a ball than a square if people before them added more balls without truly understanding whether why there's more balls than squares

No you see that's why you disagree, you can't claim to know the perception of another person without knowing who they are and even then you can't see through their eyes

[limber hull]

what?

[minor yarrow]

Yeah you're right I suppose, natural selection is overrated 🤷

[limber hull]

so i cant downvote you without knowing you and living out your every experience

because that seems a little bit unreasonable

[limber hull]

natural selection is cool, not when it impacts player enjoyment

there's a couple of awesome simulator games that portray natural selection in a really cool fashion

implementing natural selection into a game where it negatively impacts the player experience, however, harms the enjoyment for many players

[minor yarrow]

I can see that. It's not about the disagreeing btw I've seen posts that are good get down voted and I've seen posts that are silly get huge massive backings

[burnt bone]

Plus, another issue with that is clans. You bet groups of people will create op dinos and horde them for themselves while killing everything else on the server.

[minor yarrow]

I mean I guess there was a reason why someone told me not to but the game. I did anyways

[lapis swallow]

Maybe because the "good" posts aremt that good then

[limber hull]

perks will likely be the closest thing you get to what you've requested, since parents can hand down their own perks to their offspring to give them a boost in certain areas (although not in the damage department, since devs have said adamantly that damage boosts are to be avoided like the plague)

[minor yarrow]

Yeah I thought about that too, but I mean people do that anyways. You ever seen the Stegasaurus raising the pack of raptors?

[limber hull]

that just feels like personal preference. I disliked an NV suggestion a long time ago that everyone else ADORED and wouldn't stop bumping. That person was by no means popular before they made the post, and I never believed for a second it was upvoted because of some popularity thing, I just didn't agree on it

[burnt bone]

Yeah, but it’s better than each of those raptors being 2x as strong as your raptor.

Also that’s an issue that needs to be fixed separately.

[minor yarrow]

The change wouldn't be in a sense of guaranteed change or such an increment as that

You could potentially get that one big boi on the server that has spent 100 hours on that one Dino which also is the suitor for his species

Things can be very subtle changes from small increments of speed and dexterity which slightly decreases its strength in return. It'd be unbenounced to the player and sometimes you'd have one that has both that same slight speed/dexterity with either no slight str loss or even an str gain. It wouldn't necessarily be "30% body mass. Strength, speed dexterity, health, stamina" it'd just be really subtle changes and even could be further regulated with lower chances for these mutations which would be already at low rates

[uneven mist]

I would rather perks make you change how you survive rather than changing stats

[minor yarrow]

It'd also be a reason to actually lay nests and even want to rebirth your dino

[minor yarrow]

That's cool too, customizing your dino a bit but in the way those are stats

But to be fair too there doesn't seem to be a lot of background actor interactions or tags for things to even make the natural selection concept

[uneven mist]

I don’t want to go into bob territory with perks, I hate Perks that changes stats

[minor yarrow]

Things like you can't actually push someone. I don't even really know what weight actually plays into, I'm honestly convinced it's just a number that weighs against or with your length to just decide if you can hold something in your mouth

Oh and causes the the degree of audio walking. I had someone be like "deinos weigh 8 tons" and I'm just like ugh I wish they knew how coding works and that is probably just a variable called tons with the number 8 in front of it and it might not be an actual variable it could just be a string and the number 8 just defines the above mechanics

It's fine tho, I think everyone is just really content with just revamping the original with just more aesthetic appeal and* the new map, so someone like myself coming along wanting to input ideas for other things I can see being easily unwanted

[limber hull]

get those frills outta general feedback istg

[uneven mist]

There are even someone who wants it in isle discussion

[limber hull]

oh god

[runic steppe]

I came here looking for this lmao

[gritty terrace]

same

[limber hull]

@plush vault thats literally how it already works

sitting slows bleed considerably

[plush vault]

Yeah, I know, but a lot of times the bleed still goes down quite quickly when sitting. I know it shouldn't stop the bleed completely, but I feel like it still goes down too quickly

[limber hull]

thats just cause you're already bleeding really fast (or have bled out a lot)

[burnt bone]

Weight=hp. 1 kg means you have 1 hp. 1 ton=1000 hp. Biteforce= damage from bite too.

So, carno’s charge does 300 damage and utah has 450 hp. Which means a headshot (which deals 1.5x damage) will do enough to 1-shot a utah.

[minor yarrow]

Aite so it is a variable at least

[burnt bone]

Although weight does play into other mechanics too like lunge, pounce, body dragging, etc

Such as how Pachy can knockdown anything under 800kg and stun anything 1800kg and under. Anything larger will instead stun pachy.

[tepid gate]

it plays into almost everything, it determines the food yield of a body, whether you're able to carry it or not, whether you can swallow the thing whole, it determines the interactions between different playables, their hp just a tonne of stuff in general

[burnt bone]

@topaz pendant they never said it’s the elder, and it has a lot of differences from the old elder model we got

Like, the elder model has a sharp end to its crest while the normal one is more blunted. The new model has a blunted crest

[maiden snow]

i found a hacker on eu 5

[topaz pendant]

Kk then I think it should be redesigned slightly

[burnt bone]

Like look at the 3 of their heads, it looks a lot more similar to a new model than an elder.

Plus, it shares the 2 front teeth sticking out the bottom jaw like the original

[uneven mist]

The new dilo has a sexy crest, I love it

[burnt bone]

I can’t wait to see dilo skins lol

[uneven mist]

Same

I didn’t really care for dilo that much until I saw that beautiful model

[gritty terrace]

@crisp lintel mans isn't really anywhere close to accurate lol

[crisp lintel]

Its more accurate than the last one, especially the head.

[gritty terrace]

maybe skeletal wise but absolutely not soft tissue wise

[crisp lintel]

Fair enough but like i said I like the blend between accuracy and the games style. Its clear that 100% accuracy isn't something the devs are going for (although I would really like that)

[gritty terrace]

yeah but it is nowhere close to accurate, there isn't a blend of accuracy and the games style when it is nowhere close to accurate

[uneven mist]

Think the only accurate dino we wil get is Utah but I also think they wil sparkle it with making it fit the game and gameplay

[gritty terrace]

well no the allo is pretty good

[uneven mist]

Well that to

[gritty terrace]

the allo I think is one of the best designs because it was pretty damn accurate then they just put some cool integument on it to give it some flair

the devs need to do more like allo

just hope they have a consultant to do so

[dark plinth]

the dilo lowkey just looks like they aged it up

[gritty terrace]

and for some reason took its premax soft tissue off of it? lmao

[uneven mist]

The new dilo looks better for me atleast, it has a better crest and much smoother tail and looks to be lipped but I could be wrong in that last part

[tall hearth]

The new dilo looks great, as it's a nocturnal animal and usually nocturnal animals are pretty ugly. They have no reason to impress one another visually, more so vocally. In their concept art it even focused on the noises they made. I'm just hoping the calls are incredible to "make up" for it looking ugly, so to speak.

[jovial otter]

I want some beautiful singing calls

[jade schooner]

If we’re talking accurate, it looks like new dilo is heavily inspired by this first image.
Could’ve kept the pretty side of dilo tbh, had a playful nature (something more akin to the second picture). But it is still great imo.

Both images were a few of the new reconstructions made around the newest discoveries a year or two ago.

[faint folio]

@unreal ridge I don

oop

I don't really understand the point of your feedback. The next 4 dinos to be added, if I understand what the devs and roadmap say correctly, are Troodon, cera, beipi, and galli (in no particular order, though ive heard it is likely troo will be released first)

So... the devs are already doing what you are suggesting, basically

[limber hull]

i guess the issue is that none of those animals are herbis

they're either carnis or omnis

[proven river]

Please no dilo frill

[shy falcon]

@grand sedge That seems unlikely as hell.
We will likely only get that when modding is released. (assuming that ever happens), and we will have no clue how locked down modding might be.
But, just kinda randomly releasing project files seems like something a game developer of any scale should ever do.

[shy falcon]

@tropic pecan Definitely a decent idea, but randomly biting/ calling seems like a weird answer to it. Players already seem to think the game is broken when they cani as a Utah.
It seems like it'd be better to have dinos simply get scared or something, and since having the player be forced to move away seems MEGA odd. But, something like slower stat refresh, lower max, overall just crappier stats. (like a hidden bad diet)

or, if you still want a call, have it be more of an ever growing sort of whine, not just random 3 call being forced.

[tropic pecan]

I figured it was more natural to have the dino's instinct take over with the "OI BUGGER OFF" 3 call, but yeah that's a good point

Since it doesn't make much sense for a fully grown carno to be scared by a couple dryos

[shy falcon]

I'd say compare it to people IRL.
I guess if you get really scared, you scream, but if you go through some traumatic event, its not like you cry randomly, you sort of hold it in, and it slowly tears you apart. (perhaps thats a weird comparison)

[tropic pecan]

I think that players not understanding utah cannibalism as a mechanic is more on the game for not giving you information than it is a problem with the game itself

[jovial otter]

^

Game doesn't tell you anything about cannibalism, and most games don't have issue with cannibalism at all. So most gamers in general wouldn't catch what's happening

[tropic pecan]

As far as most people are concerned with the way things are right now they just need food, period

if it happens to be a baby utah corpse, oh well

Plus deinos are a part of their own diet, so any player might think the same transferring over

[cyan flame]

The biggest issue is how you'd adjust time for ambush/stalking and hunting vs just following vs just staying right outside the "range" and only go in when needed, and so on? But I think the devs are planning to do something to deter mixing and otherwise teaming up when you shouldn't.

[tropic pecan]

Prolly an (x) meter radius. If you're hanging out on a rock with the hypsies as a utah, be prepared for violence. If you're just down the river 20-40m crouched in a bush waiting for some tenos, you should be fine with the radius + the timer (value)

Stegos and crocs should not be able to sit together on a hill

[shy falcon]

If I were to make it at least, I would think a radius, and have it based off of health to have it better figure out combat or not.
If your close to a full health carno, your likely not fighting it, but if its half health, its either half dead and your not as scared, or your fighting it.
or, I could just replace it with a timer.
If your nearby for more then like 5-10 minutes, then it starts to increase this hidden scared stat.

[cyan flame]

The issue with the timer is how to handle ambushes then, since some of those can take a good while to pull off, and you'd sometimes want to stalk your prey over time, staying close and waiting for a good moment. Same with radius, what's to stop someone from just being outside the radius and not taking any effect then? If you make the radius reasonable, then you can still have people rather near, and if you make it extreme, then well, people wouldn't be able to be in any vaguely popular location most likely. And then you got the whole issue of what should affect what, since some faster critters could just harass a slower one, giving away their location. Which could also happen to someone hiding, what if you're in a bush as utah, with a trio of carnos milling about nearby, but they don't know about you being there, until this triggers and gives you away.

[shy falcon]

Yeah, thats why at least a forced call seems weird.
You could add more checks into the system.
Distance, visibility, audio, health, size, etc.

[cyan flame]

You could, but I kind of feel that if you need to go to those extremes, it's probably not a good system. And no matter how you do that, you're going to have situations where it will be a problem most likely. Hopefully someone can figure out something slightly less complicated that works better and has less risk of situations where you can't really do much.

[shy falcon]

Possibly, at least its not our job to figure that out. lol

[tropic pecan]

I feel like if you're spending 2 minutes within <10m near a prey creature and you haven't killed it yet, that's on you

There's never going to be a perfect solution I'm afraid, and that's something people just need to face. You have people teaming in solos in battle royale games all across platforms, it's just something that will happen sometimes and all you can do is take steps to prevent it and punish those who abuse it

[cyan flame]

Yeah but I'd rather not have solutions that ruins the survival aspect, and if you think that kind of limitation is workable, you've clearly not had a lot of encounters in this game. Also, does it go away if you just deliver one bite or what? Cause you could have a few utahs circle a stego for a good while, without even pulling an attack if the stego is defensive enough.

[tropic pecan]

You say that because I have a little icon saying "just joined the discord server" lol

[cyan flame]

Especially when you have critters that are attritional hunters, which implies they do attacks every now and then and then wait for a while as the prey slowly dies.

No, I say that because your example is ... well, I've waited longer than that in a bush right next to stuff for the right moment to pounce and similar so.

[tropic pecan]

Most engagements in evrima are pack hunts. They aren't the length of an ARMA OP

[cyan flame]

So at the very least, I've been in situations where it's more than reasonable to wait longer than a few min, even when you're close to the target, even in the bush they're nearby, waiting for them to be distracted, or leave the little one sufficiently far away from the adult or something.

Utahs hunting a stego can last a while, teno vs carno can last a while too if both sides are competent. And so on.

And while most engagements right now might be pack hunts, that's not how every playable will operate so there's that too.

[tropic pecan]

Yes, and I feel like you completely neglected the combination of the increasing value with the proximity detection

[tropic pecan]

And on those hunts, both parties are very much engaged in the battle

[cyan flame]

Not at all, I did point out that no matter how you do it, you're going to have situations where the system will just be bad. And that if you need all those variables, I don't think it's a good system in the first place.

[tropic pecan]

If you're on the move because you're being passively being chased for 15 minutes, you know it

[cyan flame]

Yes but circling a target for 5-10 min, baiting and waiting for a good opening, well you're not attacking at that point, are you? So how does the system know the difference between that and just following someone without a plan to attack them?

[tropic pecan]

How is a system supposed to work without any variables?

They're there to account for situations exactly like we're talking about

[shy falcon]

I bet the combat system has more variables. lol

[tropic pecan]

Proximity is not the sole factor, it's simply one of them. Being within a certain radius wouldn't automatically mean your utah will start barking from the bush after 20 seconds

You're right, there's far more that can be added to help support it and prevent unnecessary mistakes that can cost a player a kill they probably deserved

[cyan flame]

So, proximity, time, both can be circumvented, or "abused". So you add more, which again, can be worked around, or otherwise will end up causing trouble somehow.

And then you have the issue of trying to figure out where the reasonable cutoffs are supposed to be in all of those cases.

[tropic pecan]

This was probably the best take.

Any ideas us community members put forward are just spitballing ideas. It's not on us to bang out the system 100% and prepare it for the next version rollout

It's a huge undertaking though. Power to the devs to figure that one out

[cyan flame]

And at no point did I claim anything like that. But we have discussion for a reason, to discuss ideas, see if they are good or not, and refine them, and so on.

[tropic pecan]

then Joe probably had it best with the ideas of refinement

It'd have to be complex, but no matter what once it rolls out people will find ways to circumvent it

It's just the nature of video games

[shy falcon]

If we don't know a better idea, best we can do until then is try to improve the hypothetical current idea.

[cyan flame]

For the system, possibly, but I'm more so questioning if the system is good in the first place, and a viable way of doing it. Besides, there's a difference between passively coexisting and actively helping someone else out and ruining balance.

And I only see an issue with the latter, since the former doesn't actually matter.

[shy falcon]

Well, I for one (and I bet dinosaurs to) don't just chill with other dinosaurs (especially like parasaur with t-rex), or even smaller counter parts, like velos and dryos.

[tropic pecan]

there's a difference between passively coexisting and actively helping someone else out and ruining balance.

And that's what I would hope for with systems to account for health, recent acts of aggression, etc

There's totally natural interactions between species both in game and in real life, it's not to say they NEVER cooperate

[cyan flame]

There's no real reason to force an engagement if people are just existing, there are far worse problems when two different species help each other out and causes balance issues. And on that account, at least herbis can be fixed by diets in biomes to spread them out.

[tropic pecan]

but there needs to be a deterrent to just rolling up with a discord and bogarting an area

[cyan flame]

Maybe not, but I know a lot of people do enjoy having things like a dryo around as stego and so on. Or tolerating a solo omni because it's honestly not a threat to you, so just let it "tag along".

And I prefer to let people decide on their own and ongoing if they consider something a threat or not and so on.

[tropic pecan]

Does the diet system really force anyone to spread out, though? It doesn't seem like it's terribly inefficient to have a non-perfect diet if you aren't going for nesting

[cyan flame]

Since it depends entirely on where I might be, my food and water levels, and all that, if I consider an omni pack a threat or not as stego.

[tropic pecan]

Most times you can keep at least 1-2 cores full unless you literally do nothing but forage at 30%

[cyan flame]

Instead of the game telling me I should care or not care or react a certain way.

[cyan flame]

It kind of does, but not much right now. But it could be done differently after all.

Eh, you really do want good nutris if you're recovering. Sure, in the actual fight it might not matter, but there's a noticable different in recovery I'd say.

But you could spread out current herbis more with diets if you wanted to, which was mostly my point there. Spreading out carnis is a bit trickier.

But that's more so just a fix to prevent something like stego and teno, or teno and pachy, or pachy and stego, from fighting together, since those combos are quite bothersome.

[tropic pecan]

That isn't what the diet system intends to do already? Sure it doesn't really have an active detriment at the moment, and it probably wouldn't be fun if it DID force you to spend 20+ minutes running across the map at a time. But currently it just pretty much says "Oh boy go to northwest, you need more chromies to fill your third core"

[cyan flame]

Yes and no, having to keep food and water and all that up are basic parts of keeping alive. Reacting to a threat, is more subjective because it can depend on what you are, where you are, your current status, and your own confidence and skills and all that. Also the diet system is hardly engaging or fun as it stands, since it does kind of "force" you to run around in more or less of a "circle".

[tropic pecan]

Well at this point I'd like to ask what your solution would be?

Not to the diet system, but to the original issue of mixpacking

[cyan flame]

Honestly, I don't have any good ideas as it stands right now. Affinity is the idea that I've seen thrown around the most, and as I've argued, I don't think it's a good solution. BoB has something like that, and I'm not sure on the system, be it for mixing or other reasons (such as weather and stuff in their case). And as also pointed out, since I see the issue specifically in actively helping someone out, thus ruining balance (not thirdpartying, that's, while not fun to be on the target end of, more or less acceptable), it's not that easy to fix. Because the alternative is to somehow make it so you can't be around others in any reasonable circumstance, because otherwise you could intervene when you "shouldn't". Which would also cause herbi players to get upset since they tend to like being social in general.

Ideally you'd have some form of mechanic that encourages you to care about your own kind and "damn" the rest, but I've no idea how to go about that.

Because the issue really comes down to "Why do you, as a teno, care if that pachy is being jumped by a carno, it's a pachy, if it lives or dies is irrelevant to you". But people care because well, we're social critters, and we're just playing a game. So how do you convince people, without forcing them with some form of affinity, to just not care if the guy next to them lives or dies. And to that, I don't have an answer right now, much as I have been trying to figure out a solution at times.

[rare fractal]

This is just me, but when I see a pachy being attacked by a carno, I don't interfere because I want to save the pachy, that's a biproduct of me wanting the carno dead, because if that carno groups up I won't be able to deal with it, so reducing the local adult carno population is an attractive option for me, the pachy makes that process significantly easier. It's really a long term survival decision, plus I like to fight, and a solo carno will afford me the best fight teno can currently have outside of another teno, so it serves a dual purpose.

[barren zephyr]

@minor laurel yeah like in far cry primal, you can slide down slopes, very helpful 🙂

[minor laurel]

I didn't play it but i bet it is ! hehe. I want some high-speed run with gravels and dust running down a hill while you run for your life or your meal ! XD

[barren zephyr]

https://tenor.com/view/shrek-kid-candy-do-the-roar-ugly-gif-17256021

[minor laurel]

https://tenor.com/view/gif-gif-19496386

[barren zephyr]

😂

[burnt bone]

@barren crater you realize that also helps solo hypsi too. That small stun to wipe it off gives hypsi a chance to run. Plus, how often do you really see a hypsi blind someone mid-combat? Even then, you can just run in a straight line for a bit and then wipe off the blind.

However, blind does have several issues that make it pretty bad at self defense tool atm, but that’s a different argument.

[barren crater]

I stated that the effect should stay. That you should be able to cancel the animation and be able to try again (to remove the spit). Just that you should still have the ability to run. I don't see the reason a creature shouldn't be able to move due something as simple as spit.

[burnt bone]

If you’re saying to make the wipe off animation able to be canceled mid-way and actually done later, then I’m fine with that.
I had read the suggestion as “the wipe off shouldn’t stop you at all”.

[barren crater]

Ah, well that wasn't what I meant. I CAN also understand if people don't like the second part of my post about cancelling swallowing, since yeah - it can lead to an ambush opportunity. I personally don't like it, but can see the other point of view.

[uneven mist]

Running while wiping the spit off

[barren crater]

Guess I got to clear up my post a bit better

[burnt bone]

That’s what i disliked about it lol.

[uneven mist]

Half it’s face gets avicorated

[burnt bone]

Sorry for misinterpreting it, if it’s just to cancel animations then I’m all for it lol

[burnt bone]

“Oh you wanted to cheese the blind? Now you’re perma blind “

[barren crater]

That's totally fine. It's my fault for not clearing it up in the post.

I edited it, so hopefully it's easier to understand now

[barren zephyr]

@unreal ridge why the hell we need Kentro? We have stego? Dibble? What about Para and Triceratops???? Why everytime the same dino, Kentro is lower than stego for what we need a Kentro??

[unreal ridge]

first of all nothing in the game currently would even have a chance against triceratops

second of all if the devs wanted to go small, we shouldn't add large things first because large things, i don't know if you know this, typically have more health, so if we ease the playerbase with new mechanics and gradually get large, it will make more sense

also what would even eat trike?

i can understand para, a group of carnos, deino and maybe a utah pack

but if you added trike you'd also need to add rex or some other large predator to counter it's monopoly
we know this because stego currently is very over powered as an apex and nothing can even come close to killing it quickly/without being in a large group, which is why cerato is a good pick, because it is too overpowered, fits into the current balance of the game, and in a group of 3-4 could probably kill a stego decently fast with their infection ability

[barren zephyr]

Oh yes that make sense but why than Cera to Carno and not allo to Carno, I never played Cera it looks so small, can they rly kill a Carno?

I know allo maybe don't reales in the next 2 years, just saying.

Or why galli we have almost dryo

Dryo can't rly fight or something, they need to put it out and put just galli in

[rare crescent]

The problem with dryo is that it has to dig holes, but they forgot to introduce the digging mechanic. He doesn't have to be like a galli.

[uneven mist]

Para and trike would be terrible options so early well maybe not para and kentro because it’s more balanced than stego

[ebon pendant]

Sup

[cobalt quest]

not head on! cerato is supposed to have a disgusting, terrible bite that causes nasty infection. so while it couldn't beat carno easily in a brawl, the carno wouldn't want to brawl with a cera because of the terrible aftermath

[jagged jewel]

They didn’t forget they just delayed it

[uneven mist]

@jagged jewel I kinda have another perk idea for ptera where it’s able to get more food and dietary needs from live prey and scavenging making it a hunter and scavenger but it dosent gain any nutrients from fish and not so much food from them

[jagged jewel]

Ah that’s an interesting idea

[jagged jewel]

IMO the cera should be able to play defensively in a reliable way, but if the carno gets a single charge the fight changes drastically in the carno’s favor

[cobalt quest]

personally i don't think it will be just mowed down or anything. it's much heavier set than utah with a more punishing bite.

[limber hull]

this is the best kind of take for cera, which is people don't bother with fighting it because it causes you more trouble than its worth

[cobalt quest]

yeah i think cerato will just get a bunch of issues from newer players who don't know the result of it's bite

[jagged jewel]

Oh yeah for sure, just saying if it fails to fend off a larger animal approprietly it will get properly punished

[rare crescent]

Don't you find it strange that they brought in a creature and the most important thing for him didn't? It's like entering a utah, but not entering a pounce. It literally killed the whole point of this being. That's why I call it "forget".

[jagged jewel]

A carno ambush is still very much a HUGE threat to a cerato, just if the cerato plays it well and expects it, it should have little trouble surviving

[jagged jewel]

It is pretty weird but the devs just kinda delay stuff for later for some reason

[cobalt quest]

i don't think dryo is getting burrowing in evrima? but i may be wrong.

[jagged jewel]

It is, just not soon

[cobalt quest]

it's new paper doesn't show it

[limber hull]

it is

paper?

[jagged jewel]

?

[rare crescent]

I hope they release some news about digging soon. Because without it, there is almost nothing to do on the dryo.

[jagged jewel]

Yeah dryo is very barebones as of now

[limber hull]

i think releasing hypsi and dryo before their core mechanics was a really bad idea

its created a sour taste for the extra small tiers going forward

[jagged jewel]

Yeah it’s like releasing austro before fish

[limber hull]

people see hypsi and dryo as "useless" or "garbage" animals, but in reality, they're not even 50% of their completed selves

a finished hypsi with climbing would be infinitely more engaging

[cobalt quest]

hypsi isn't as bad as dryo rn

[jagged jewel]

It causes people to see small tiers as useless and server slot wastes, but fleshed out small tiers are fun af

[jagged jewel]

Yeah, it’s worse

[cobalt quest]

dryo just has a broken jump thing that you can't even aim rn + it's ugly

[jagged jewel]

Viability wise atleast

[limber hull]

oh im very excited for the upcoming dodge update

[jagged jewel]

What does being ugly to you have to do with this

[limber hull]

dryo isnt ugly thats just cruel

[jagged jewel]

Yea i do think they should rename the ability as it’s more of a boost than a dodge