suggestion-discussion

[steady yacht]

idk if u want my 2 cents but here it is anyway, dune: awakening has this feature of crafting straight from chests and I found it maddening, I could never control what item was where at what time and it led to no matter how I organized my chests they would always get all mixed up cause items would empty out completely and then stack somewhere completely different, it's just kinda overcomplicated and it made itself completely redundant.

[languid ibex]

I personally feel the very same way, I typically have roughly 5 carts on the go at my main base parked outside of structures currently being built with all the materials they will need. In that way I feel accomplished and as you said, made my own quality of life that much better.

There are instances in how I play where vicinity inventory would be a lot better, but it's admittedly due to how I organize goods. Arrows can become a pain because I store the materials to craft them in 2-3 separate chests.

[tulip pecan]

Reminds me of how Medieval Engineers does it
Building pieces in that game are pretty costly in terms of weight, and your character has a realistic inventory
So when you build, whatever you're building can draw materials from nearby material piles
And of course, because it's an engineering game, you're encouraged to build a cart or other solution to transport materials to make those piles

[stiff stag]

#suggestions message For raspberry bushes there's already an easy way to distinguish them, that being that they have a more vibrant green color than other similar looking bushes. And for blueberries those are the only bushes of that type in the area so there's no confusing them with normal bushes. The only time it would really be needed is for raspberry bushes in certain lighting conditions, when it's a lot harder to see the color difference, such as at night.

[languid ibex]

There are lighter green bushes without berries as well.

[stiff stag]

Nope, raspberry bushes are the only ones with that vibrant green color, and again there are no other bushes in the black forest that resemble blueberry bushes.

[olive yacht]

yea, it's consistent, though i imagine it could still be a bit confusing if you're colorblind

[stiff stag]

That's actually a great point that I often forget about.

[languid ibex]

I'm quite literally staring at two of the same colored bush, and only one has berries on it though.

[olive yacht]

raspberry?

[languid ibex]

Yeah

[olive yacht]

you uh, might wanna do some eye tests then 😅

[languid ibex]

I did recently, 20/20 vision.

[stiff stag]

Send a screenshot to #screenshots, since we can't see what you're claiming to be seeing.

[olive yacht]

it's also possible that the berries simply haven't regrown yet

[languid ibex]

I was waiting for the fog that rolled in to clear up.

[languid ibex]

I didn't harvest these bushes.

[stiff stag]

Fog like this: #screenshots message

[olive yacht]

holy

[languid ibex]

#screenshots message

[olive yacht]

hard to tell on my phone screen but if that on the right really is the same green, something's wrong. i don't recall a berryless bush of that color existing even as an unused object

something to look into when I'm back at PC

[languid ibex]

If this isn't intentional then I suppose it's a bug and doesn't require a suggestion.

[olive yacht]

i assume you don't wanna mess with commands in that world?
running skiptime 50000 or something and then waiting a good minute or so to see if berries grow could at least confirm whether or not it has berries

-# tall ask to run that command so no need 😅

[languid ibex]

I typically don't like to use them, but I will make a back-up and run it.

[hexed jewel]

#suggestions message good idea, i just want to add a sort of 'workaround' i've found for those that might not know, you can hit E facing a berry bush and it still does the "plucking berries" animation, you just don't get the sound or berries--it WON'T do that animation tho if the bush isn't actually a berry bush, so you can distinguish plucked berry bushes that haven't regenerated from non-berry bushes this wya

[olive yacht]

ohhh right i forgot about the animation

[languid ibex]

Oo that's be a good testing method thank you

[olive yacht]

yea!

much less hassle than skipping like an in-game month of time 😅

[languid ibex]

Okay, it is letting me do the harvest animation, so either I accidentally harvested this bush at some point, or it is stuck in a state where the berry is already plucked.

The only thing I can think is that it's nearby the Eikthyr altar, and I accidentally harvested it during the fight?

[olive yacht]

I'll still have a look, maybe some patch made bushes occasionally generate like that or something

[stiff stag]

I've had times where I'll return to an area after a long time and stuff still hasn't regrown, so probably not stuck in that state but rather the area just hasn't been loaded in long enough for the cycle to complete.

[languid ibex]

Yeah I think this has happened to me enough times to convince me that there are regular light green bushes that occur. It would also be good to have a text indicator in these cases.

[olive yacht]

no harm in adding it~

[stiff stag]

For me it's at night when they become extremely difficult to distinguish from normal bushes, so the idea does still have value in some cases.

[hexed jewel]

I suspect it could work like that--I notice rather consistently when i portal to a farm base and enough time has passed since last planting after I load in everything will look like the growth state when i last portaled out, then after a few seconds it will like all update at once to a finished growth state

[granite geyser]

@coral shoal share them how?

[coral shoal]

Share with friends in the same server

[stiff stag]

That's already possible with a cartography table.

[coral shoal]

really?

I havent used the cartography table once lol so I didnt know

[tulip pecan]

it's honestly kind of annoying

because my friends have entirely different ideas of what markers to use where

[rose swan]

Just chiming in- you know we can ping on the map? 🤔

[brisk matrix]

Yeah pin sharing needs a rework. Should be able to choose which get shared to the table

[versed sonnet]

would love some additional pin options in general. Just some extra colors would be massive

[tulip pecan]

speaking of that, the map markers are basic, but I think they're adequate for what you need to use them for
here's how I use them, in order of definitional priority:
House - large bases with high comfort, storage, and crafting capacity
Portal - any location with a portal set up to it. i always label the marker with the portal name
Campfire - outposts that you can sleep and do basic crafting/repair at
Hammer - Dungeons, natural structures, landmarks, and other Points of Interest (will X out dungeons if completely looted)
Circle - resources like berry patches and copper nodes (will X out nodes when mined) I usually name the amount of regrowing resources on the pin (raspberries x5, mushrooms x3)

[versed sonnet]

Ayy, that's exactly how I do it lol

[rose swan]

I think a few extra pins would go a long way. At the very least, a Berry pin

[versed sonnet]

just add a color wheel with the basic colors and I'd be having my meadows polkadotted with red lol

[wanton atlas]

yup yup

[tulip pecan]

meanwhile, i just found this
https://www.reddit.com/r/valheim/comments/16x9kzg/advanced_map_pin_system_context_sensitive_biome/

I'm so glad pins shared via the cartography table are at least a seperate layer you can toggle

it seems like there was a trend of confusion over the portal icon being interpreted as a cave

it also seems frequently people use the hammer to indicate ores, which is what my friends did when i was playing with them

[versed sonnet]

Jeez they made that chart really complicated

I guess it's more thorough than what I normally consistently mark though

[pale oasis]

Personally, I only use the campfire for my structures. The house I use to distinguish types of POI from dungeons (where I use the hammer). I honestly rarely use the portal marker; my portals are usually part of an outpost (campfire) or next to a merchant. I wish we had maybe a couple more varieties of markers, though, nothing too specific, just a couple generic shapes like a diamond to help differentiate some of the more common stuff so the map is littered with the same icons for a huge variety of things.

[tardy whale]

I had an idea that the Troll of Endurance mead, since it has to do with strength, it could also let you pull heavier wagons eaiser, especially up hill

[versed sonnet]

I like it

[errant mauve]

How easy it is to pull the cart is based on the weight right?
Well, if it was adjusted to be based on the difference between your cart weight and your carry capacity, that would have that effect
Same with the WWE belt, and the forsaken ability, anything which increases your carry capacity

[stiff stag]

Movement speed has an impact on the ability to move a cart, same with not overfilling a cart well beyond any reasonable amount of weight to haul to begin with.

[tardy whale]

I got the idea trying to pull a ton of black metal to the shore so I can put it on my boat. So it did come from overfilling the cart, but it could treat it similarly with the carry weight, like make the cart behave like it's 250 less weight or something

[tulip pecan]

Is there really any point to a cart if you're not going to fill it to capacity with 3625 kg of stone and ore?

[stiff stag]

Carrying way more than you already can normally but not to absurd degrees seems fair and reasonable to me as is.

[tulip pecan]

nah we have to get all the groceries in the house in one trip

[tardy whale]

alternative is maybe having another cart option, I guess

like a delivery truck

[tulip pecan]

can lox pull carts yet or is that still firmly suggestion territory?

[tardy whale]

Yeah, I was thinking maybe a wolf or lox could pull it

[rose swan]

A box truck where instead of using up and down to adjust the sail, you adjust your gear

[tardy whale]

You can create different gears out of iron, 10 iron for smaller gears, 30 iron for bigger gears

[versed sonnet]

I think the tradeoff of all the stuff that goes into making the mead would justify a little assistance with the cart pulling. I wouldn't have it make it so you could climb mountains of course, but just to get up those slight inclines would be pretty nice if you just don't want to make multiple trips.

[rose swan]

💡 Box Truck
Made using surtling cores, mechanical springs, iron nails, iron, and copper

[tulip pecan]

yeah, subtracting the character's unused carry weight from the cart's actual (not displayed) weight would be one of the quickest and dirtiest ways of doing it
It would have neglible effect unless you gave the unused carry weight a multiplier to account for the leverage the cart grants (maybe 2x or 3x would be satisfactory?)

[languid ibex]

I think it'd make sense for us to get a powered cart of sorts to push weight limits and negate slope issues. We have a cogwheel, and the Battering Ram is outputting a lot of power with just wood as fuel.

[tulip pecan]

so a full cart of copper ore would weight 5400
if you have an empty inventory (aside from megingjord) and drink troll endurance mead, that would give you a free carry capacity of 698
multiply that by three and subtract it from 5400, we get 3306. The cart is effectively treated as though it contains 2/3 the copper other handling-wise

is that acceptable or should the leverage multiplier be higher

[rose swan]

Definitely hope we see more uses for the cogwheel! It’s such an interesting material with a lot of potential

[tardy whale]

are you saying it would be like shaving off 1/3 of whatever weight it's currently holding?

ish

[languid ibex]

Right!

[tulip pecan]

yeah, with the current math and two buffs (megingjord and troll mead)

however, google AI says a wheelbarrow can multiply a person's amount they can carry by up to 18 times due to leverage, so maybe 3x was a very conservative gamey estimate

[languid ibex]

Google AI sure does say things doesn't it.

[tulip pecan]

either way, plugging any value higher than 6 in for the multiplier results in a negative adjusted weight, so probably not recommended
if we're going all out with megingjord, troll mead, and the fader power then maybe the cart should feel weightless, but not before

does anyone know what the heaviest weight a cart can be is?

"A full stack of serpent trophies is the heaviest single-storage-space weight in Valheim, at 500 weight units."

500 x 18 is 9000

if only it were one more... 😔

okay so with all three carry weight buffs plugging the numbers in and using a multiplier of 6x brings the heaviest cart in valheim down from 9000 to 3012, which... is moveable
the weight threshold for being able to pull a cart on anything other than flat ground is around 4500.

i'm happy with these numbers

[tardy whale]

sounds like some math right there

[tulip pecan]

a multiplier of 5x is 4010 which is still just below that threshold

[tulip pecan]

Hey, you gave me the behavior: The higher carry capacity you have, the easier the cart is to move. I whipped up and refined a mathematical formula that modeled that behavior and tested it against both reasonable use case and upper bound parameters.

[tardy whale]

it's good math

[pale oasis]

#suggestions message There are a number of water-themed encounters in Norse folklore and sagas, also, it's well documented that they had to worry about being raided or assaulted at sea by fellow Vikings (pirate does not necessarily mean the later Caribbean pirates of the age of sail), but I think the devs are avoiding other Vikings in the world; the players are the current batch of warriors to do Odin's bidding.

[lament zinc]

Which also means: No Undead pirates

[pale oasis]

What not?

[tulip pecan]

I feel like a draugr longship could be in order

also speaking of
#suggestions message
undead pirate water encounter reminded me of this suggestion i made a year ago
I felt it was a pretty cool idea (more interesting than most of the raids already in the game) so was surprised when so many people downvoted it. I wonder what the main issue was?

[lament zinc]

For the same reason people would downvote any Draugr ship idea:

We're not there to kill undead - there's 7d2d for that - but to kill the forsaken.

Also, a Draugr longboat may imbalance the game a lot.

Imagine you're a new player, sailing along the coastline, looking for a Black Forest and all the sudden a horde of Swamp level creatures appear and attack you.
You won't stand a chance in your leather armor, wooden shield and club / flint spear / flint knife.

[uneven geyser]

Draugur longboats and pirates and whatnot aren't my main talking point, rather instead making the ocean fun to be in

[languid ibex]

I think a lot of people just properly estimate how challenging sailing should be, and that fighting things in the water isn't always easy given the variables surrounding progression/boats/player count/weather/wind.

[sonic musk]

every other raid is just 'spawn creatures until done' where this one is 'create object to spawn raid' there is a difference in the approach. I'm not a big fan of raids in general but if I weighed in on it, I would likely have downvoted too. I'd rather see dangerous sea creatures than dangerous land creatures coming from the sea in ships or boats or anything

[uneven geyser]

Or a bit more tense at least

[sonic musk]

also don't take it personally. Many many opinions and ideas that get posted in the suggestion channel get downvoted a lot. You can talk to a group of people and get amazing reception and everyone likes it, and put it up to vote and it gets a lot of dislikes. Everyone has an opinion. I'm sure if the devs posted ideas before implementing them disguised as a random discord member, it would be heavily disliked randomly too.

[pale oasis]

I don't really understand the argument, "we're not here to kill undead" when draugr are already in the game. Even the, "but new players" doesn't really hold because there are draugr villages in the meadows; you don't even need to sail that far out to start seeing them.

[tulip pecan]

i'm confused, why aside from being on a server would new players have to encounter it? surely flags can be set based on the current forsaken killed to enable that encounter
also we kill plenty of undead. there's even the skeleton surprise raid that just happens and keeps happening occasionally. 2 of 8 biomes are undead themed

[sonic musk]

I've had some of my suggestions get only positive feedback and some get only critical feedback. You're going to have unpopular ideas sometimes, no worries

[lament zinc]

You never read the introduction before one of the Raven dropped you at the World spawn?
Nor any of the lore stones?

[uneven geyser]

Raid, storm, monster, whatever, I think the main consesus js that the ocean is boring after the second ride

[lament zinc]

The Draugr you can encounter in the meadows are in a village, meaning you won't encounter many of them at the same time - unless you're very careless.
Nor do they swarm you with multiple vs one; which would happen when it's something that happens at sea.

We're there to slay the Forsaken for Odin. That's it.
Anything else that got in your way can be considered as "collateral damage".

If we were there to kill the undead, the sacrificial stones would allow us to hang the Draugr and Skeleton trophies on it.
Not those of the forsaken.

[uneven geyser]

There's gotta be something to fix that, anything

[pale oasis]

This makes no sense. We kills tons of stuff other than the forsaken. Just because we're killing them doesn't mean it's part of our task. Also, you absolutely can get swarmed by draugr already. Lastly, why would the draugr ships need to full of them? It could literally just be 2 or 3 on a ship.

[tulip pecan]

it feels like you're conflating lore with gameplay
in isolation everything you've said in this is correct
However none of that is a reason, lore or gameplay-wise, as to why there can't be undead ship encounters

[lament zinc]

Well, in that case, I challenge you to face a 2 star Draugr Elite or 2 star Draugr archer in your tier 2 leather outfit with a flint spear and a wooden shield as weapons.

And to make it more realistic to compare it to sailing, put yourself at a small platform of 4x4m.

I wonder how long you would survive that.

[pale oasis]

Or maybe just 2 regular draugr on a boat, and you're in your boat, and you can shoot them.

[lament zinc]

They will still kill you.

People move into the swamp with Bronze armor and they get killed by Skelleton or Draugr archers because of the amount of damage they do.
You're no match to them in leather armor when you don't have the opportunity to run away, hide and attack them from a distance.

[pale oasis]

Why wouldn't you be able to run away?

Your scenarios just aren't making sense.

[lament zinc]

Because you're on a raft or Karve, that's why.

[pale oasis]

And who says the draugr can man their ship and chase you?

[tulip pecan]

he's assuming that the draugr boat is just a default spawn of the ocean like the sea serpent
instead of it being something that gets added to the spawn pool when you say, defeat bonemass
like how enemies from tougher biomes start spawning in the meadows

[pale oasis]

It could literally function like the draugr villages and be something you only see far from the center regions.

[uneven geyser]

You could also keep in mind distance from spawn for difficult encounters, but I think that idea sparks from a certain dissatisfaction with the biome itself due to the lack of content

[tulip pecan]

that too

[pale oasis]

The encounter I'm imagining is vastly easier for a new player to handle than when they first stumble on their first draugr village.

[uneven geyser]

Spawn to ashlands is a long empty road, even more so in a drakkar due to its size and inability to traverse through rivers and small gaps

[tulip pecan]

also, sounds like a perfect opportunity to break out the ol bronze buckler

you can't run, you can't hide, but you can parry
(I love that stunning enemies from parrying ranged attacks is an ascended bug, it's just so fun and funny)

[uneven geyser]

And there's nothing to do but sail and sail and sail

There's no stimuli, no new experiences, nothing

It's a frequent issue with games with sailing, and all of them give you stuff to do while in the journey

[tulip pecan]

yeah, that's when the viking warrior must brave the greatest challenge of all - being alone with his thoughts

[pale oasis]

I wouldn't mind more things in the ocean to discover, but I actually quite enjoy sailing in Valheim. It's super chill.

[languid ibex]

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Whales(Or whale-like creature).

Whale oil could solve the Resin burning time issue some people have, their meat for food, and their bones for tools and weapons.

There's also material within whales that was utilized for creating fishing line and basket weaving.

[rose swan]

Whalebone tools… sounds kinda neat actually

[languid ibex]

I think so too, and they're passive creatures that can offer beauty as well.

[lament zinc]

It would explain where the amber shards and pearls we find come from as well.

[somber remnant]

Whale carcass armor would be the meta

[sonic musk]

you know the funniest thing about the ocean biome recommendations? Every time it's brought up someone complains it's too empty and needs more activity. The moment they add more creatures and enemies that come after you, people will complain it's too hard, there are too many enemies, it's overpopulated, etc etc. Players will ask for something then be disappointed when they get it

I can already see it now 6 months to a year to 2 years from now they add creatures to the ocean that make it way more dangerous and lots of players rush to the suggestion channel asking to make it easier

[languid ibex]

I believe there is an agreement to not make the ocean this way amongst the developers, and keep the focus on the traversal/navigation element.

[brisk matrix]

The ocean should be as dangerous as the meadows. You can only really get in trouble if you try to.

[rose swan]

I think it’s fair to say that the ocean is currently more dangerous than the meadows 🤔

[brisk matrix]

You can avoid the serpents if you don't want to fight them

Unless you are in a raft, but that things cursed

[rose swan]

Sure, but I would still consider it more dangerous I think 🤔
But moving past that, I see what you’re saying and I do agree- shouldn’t just throw a bunch of monsters in the ocean for the sake of ‘danger’, can get on board with that 100%

[brisk matrix]

Yeah, It's probably better said another way but the only danger in the ocean once you know what is there, should be danger you go looking for.

[candid haven]

I dont think the devs should put a species threatened with extinction as an animal hunted for oil in this game.

Maybe do more with salmon or tuna. Farmable fish.

[white minnow]

Whale oil? 🧐

[errant mauve]

Whales is a bigger group than a species. There's a whale that they eat in Norway and afaik its considered sustainable.

[languid ibex]

I mean, they're as close to extinction as Deer are in comparison(which isn't very close).

O!ptb @stable raft

[granite kite]

Please keep Public test spoilers in the #valheim-public-test channel and feedback in the #call-to-arms-update-feedback-only.
To gain access to the public test, you go to id:customize and click the Public-test role

[wanton atlas]

@half quiver something we can do, versus those developers. Is spawn in entire locations to optimize the game.
And we have already done this

but the game engines are completly diffrent

and the amount of objects are massivly diffrent

[raven bramble]

tbh, after the game gets 1.0 update (aka deep north drops) what updates would you like to see in valheim?

i have 3 to 4 things i'd want really

1. Improvements to multiplayer - lets not beat around the bush that the resource management as well as combat (mostly enemy health increase wise) becomes harder the more chums you have at your side, not to mention the absolute lack of interest to encourage helping other vikings, valheim could offer more stuff to encourage being team players as well as enemies if you want to play as enemy factions with your friends, stuff like teams (like in terraria), items dedicated to help other players (only available if there is more than one person on the same server) or even being able to draw over the map to plan out your ventures with buddies or plan attacks on your enemies

2. mod support - ima be real, this one is kinda a no brainer if devs want to boost the games life infinitely, having an option to get mods just by subscribing for stuff on steam is just gonna keep this game alive for as long as the fans wish to

3. weapon customization - no i dont mean enchants or upgrades, just pure visual changes, having a wooden hammer at the point where you have access to black metal is just kinda weird, if you could customize looks of tools and weapons as you progress, it just would be nice to have even as decoration in your base. at most it could be miniscule improvements if you have to waste resources for upgrades, like hoe getting bigger radius or plants seeded with the cultivator can be put closer together by a very tiny amount

4. this one is niche as hell but... wood carving - i'd love to basically use wooden planks as canvas i can decorate my base with, how i'd imagine this would work is basically 3 layers where you scrape off the top layer to get slightly darker wood and if you have second layer, you can scrape down to third one which is even darker, it'd be hella cool to draw your own adventures and display them on the wall

[raven bramble]

oof i think i killed the chat with this one

[lament zinc]

About this #suggestions message

First part, yes, that would be nice.
Second part: no. We got roofs for that.

[versed fog]

PoIs

The game desperately needs more exploration content

[stark furnace]

Revisiting world modifiers

[raven bramble]

could you elaborate

doesnt really give me enough of idea what you want changed oof

[stark furnace]

Have you played v rising?

[raven bramble]

nope

[stark furnace]

Difficulty settings in valheim are just pure number changes, v rising is number changes but also new attacks/animations and enemy behavior

I’d like to see that in valheim

[wanton atlas]

@sacred lagoon no. that suggestion isn't a suggestion.

1. we know there are performance issues in ashlands.
2. a laptop itself have so many issues. where you yourself need to optimize it, unlock features, remove dust and additional cooling while playing heavier games

Video on how to optimize your windows PC
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6IBkMW39egU

[raven bramble]

hope at least one of these is possible tbh

mod support could potentially bring all the rest of these tbh

[brisk matrix]

I think modding is already in a good place. Adding a built-in mod loader and search would mean declaring a specific mod site official or IG hosting mods themselves, which could fracture the current modding community. Adding steam workshop would leave out MS store buyers.

[half quiver]

Absolutely, but you can learn a lot by looking at user saves especially where there's performance drops. Might be worth a shot just in case 😁

[wanton atlas]

I would say no on that statement

Valheim uses Unity 6 now
City skylines user unity 5.
Satisfactory uses Unreal 5.

and you cannot honestly compare a game that isn't in the same genre, you can't compare the diffrent ways you have items, structures, load bearing systems, path finding etc

one normal build house in valheim is infinitly more complex than the same size building in satisfactory

[raven bramble]

mods shouldn't be pay to play

mods are inherently fan made content for fans by fans

[wanton atlas]

mods can't be made to pay

[raven bramble]

yea

[wanton atlas]

12. Commercialising the content-additional rule. If you want to make money off your content it must comply with all the rules above and both this rule 12 and also rule 13. You are only entitled to monetise your content through advertising or partner programs that video sharing platforms offer or if you collect voluntary contributions as long as you follow rule 13.

13. Commercialising the content-additional rule. Although you can use our content as part of your own creative commercial project, viewers should not have to pay a fee for the sole purpose of accessing the content of our games and you cannot sell our content.

[raven bramble]

i dunno whats your qualm with steam workshop but you can't say it's not convenient

[wanton atlas]

valheim on Xbox, Apple and microsoft store doesn't have access to steam workshop

[raven bramble]

and proper mod support would raise valheims lifespan immensely

[raven bramble]

what about the binding of isaac? same story yet it has steam workshop if players so choose to want mods

[wanton atlas]

and how much crittique do they get for that ?

[raven bramble]

none

i never seen a person ever complain about it, in fact people bash people trying to complain about it

[wanton atlas]

so xbox players don't complain about mod support?

or they have another sollution?

[raven bramble]

they really don't, they just have to accept they don't have mods, it's the same with other moddable games on pc

mod support just allows for users to actually be careful when downloading mods, because steam does not tolerate malware

[brisk matrix]

My experience has been that if a game isn't steam only and doesn't have steam workshop support very early, adding it later will fracture the modding community as some modders won't use it and others will exclusively.

[wanton atlas]

afaik. "our" modding community is split between R2 modman and Nexusmods

[raven bramble]

even if not steam workshop support, then just overall better mod management menu when you do download them would be nice

[wanton atlas]

we'll see about mod support ingame in the future

[raven bramble]

and sites where you should get mods from if you're on pc

[brisk matrix]

Most are on thunderstore (r2modman) at this point it seems. Nothing is exclusively on Nexus other than some model replacement mods

[raven bramble]

just so newer to modding players dont go and download malware

heck, having your own mod browser like drg has it would be sweet

[wanton atlas]

I belive I read before that the mod sites themselves check through mods before publishing them 🤔

[raven bramble]

and drg is life service game (well, to an extent, updates are rare, but you have lots o stuff to do)

[wanton atlas]

could be that thunderstore does this, but not nexus mods. hence the mod-makers migrate to thunderstore

can't remember exactly. because this was something talked about years ago

[brisk matrix]

Factorio has great mod support but they run their own mod host. That's a lot of extra commitment

[raven bramble]

thunderstore is safer due to being part of a corporation, yknow, the same company that basically holds almost entire minecraft modding scene (curseforge)

[raven bramble]

hell, if mod support happened, there could be even featured "mod of the month" alongside builds of the month, basically mods the devs from pc side particularly liked, allowing to also let some light on smaller people who mod the game they like

[brisk matrix]

KSP long ago declared curse the official mod partner and linked to it from the main menu. But the modding community was already established and almost none of the authors used curse. It became a joke.

If anything were to happen. The most important thing is to talk to the mod authors first and find out what they want.

[raven bramble]

this

don't listen to a small amount of people tho, yknow, bias n such

the more people are asked, the more general idea you get what the mod makers would love to have

[half quiver]

You're completely missing the point :). What I said had nothing to do with engines or those games or their code language. I mentioned them as examples of the process which is applicable for all games, how you do it differs by game and engine and language sure.

It's about the devs testing their game under stress (say by using a massive save file like I linked to which has proven stress) to learn about pain points and test possible optimizations or fixes. Obviously there will be limitations, especially due to object count related stuff. But they may find information from looking which they can learn from and use to improve things.

I only listed those games to mention the process I was describing, which is useful for all games. Not to compare them or what ever.

Additionally using a save file that's been done by a player gives them unique insights into gameplay choices. They can look at the save data to see if there's issues there. They likely can't get this degree of building by spawning so having a wild example where players behave differently to a developer is super valuable 😊♥️

[wanton atlas]

We don't need to use player worlds like I said

1. we play our own game
2. we can generate buildings out of thin air
3. you might not belive it, but we have already done 10000's of optimizations already

my oldest world for optimization is from mars 2021 when players couldn't "build anymore".
that build had over 51.000 instances. This number of instances would bring any PC to it's bare knees

last time we did a major thing. we optmized fire sources from a world I made which had over 9000 fires and 200,000 build pieces

by just spawning location after location after location

so we do not need to ask our community for worlds to optimize our game

[steady yacht]

as someone who has a save file from pre-mists and has been building on it since then, I have to find myself in agreement with smiffe, my experience has been extremely well optimized, despite having several hundred hours of building on it I can't imagine having put more stress on my world than a dev could with the literal wave of a hand

Like I could see these things having been valuable a looong time ago, but not after literal years of them already doing all that

[wanton atlas]

what takes players months to build. I can replicate in mear minutes by spawning devhouse,1,2,3,4,5's

just run around and spawn them all over the place until you hit your "target"

but what we could do is to put an actual max number of instances allowed in a area to prevent performance losses

but I can assure, no one want that

those who enjoys building, would instantly we added a limit, would want a setting to have it unlimited

but most players just plays. won't have this issue in the first place since they don't tend to build giga-structures or mega cities

[random monolith]

Is the overall grindiness of the game used to influence how much a player will tend to build for performance reasons?

[steady yacht]

Even with giga-structures, the actual performance loss becomes almost unnoticeable if you have anywhere above average specs in your pc, and that's exclusively because this is what QA and developement does, finds those problems and fixes them, and they've been doing it for years now

[half quiver]

OK. Sorry to bother you I just thought it would be cool to see if you could get value from it🙂. I had a blast watching the Satisfactory dev talk about how players always go outside how they anticipate their game to be played. I find that true of my own work too. So I thought it might be valuable. Would also be sick to see a video reaction to dedicated players like this and inspire others to play too. I'd have watched. Anyway I'll go, keep up the good work 😊

[wanton atlas]

please don't assume something when you don't know how we work.
Satisfactorys inner and public workflow is not the same as ours since we are diffrent companies, working in diffrent game engines

[random monolith]

also a player save file for satisfactory is more likely to be valuable I think because due to the complexity of the game there might be more unique ways to mess up existing optimizations and cause lots of lag

[wanton atlas]

satisfactory afaik don't have a system to spawn entire complete structures

like "spawn factory 1" that have 1000's of build pieces

but satisfactorys main problems are diffrent from valheims main problems with hardware usage. for example

[steady yacht]

even if they had that function for the devs, it's a lot harder to outright break things in valheim

[wanton atlas]

break things?

[steady yacht]

Like cause the game to no longer function by pushing the boundaries of the ingame mechanics

[half quiver]

I think you've completely misunderstood me somewhere along the line. I've not assumed anything about your workflow. This whole conversation has felt like a complete misunderstanding, like you've heard something different to what I meant every time I've posted. I am sorry I upset you. I was just trying to say I'd like to see videos of you guys exploring big builds like this and talking about it, it would be fun. Nothing to do with workflow. You also don't have to do it, I just mentioned it because I thought it would be cool to see 😊

[steady yacht]

it did kinda sound like you were saying "here's how you should do your job cause I know best" ngl

[pallid remnant]

Some people just angry all the time or always on edge, you did nothing wrong. This is literally a suggestion channel.

[half quiver]

Well that's the complete opposite of what I intended so if that's the case I'm super sorry.

[wanton atlas]

we don't do that kind of videos

I know their segments. and we haven't really felt like it's our own "style" to do that kind of community show

it's mostly down to personalities of the community managers

not sure how to explain it

[steady yacht]

apples/oranges is a good way

[wanton atlas]

I mean it's probably a good thing to dedicate so much time for the community

[steady yacht]

the satisfactory devs like making apples and valheim devs like making oranges, both good both valuable, both different on a fundamental level

[wanton atlas]

but they have like 3x the amount of people on their team

and those time we have tried some more "live stuff" or so. the turnout haven't been great

so our players don't really respond to that kind of content

[half quiver]

All good I know it's a lot of work. I didn't mean do a big series or make it regular, or even do it the same way, you got to do your own style and all. It could be a special once off where you explore for fun, maybe an anniversary or something. All I'm saying is it would be a fun way for us to connect.

Yeah I wouldn't do it live I'd prerecord so you can showcase and iron out any bits you don't like. Cut boring parts. Include fly overs. Talk about Dev choices and stories. Notice little details and say how cool they are. That sort of thing.

Anyway I'm off, have a good day and keep up the good work 😁♥️

[wanton atlas]

it's why we have our on version. Build of the month

we developers look at the sent in builds and pick one we like the most and feature it on our dev-blogs

[random monolith]

@steep abyss wdym by magic heavy attack?

I get the idea of a heavy attack for magic staffs but you specified an eitr cost so did you have something specific in mind

[steep abyss]

big attack big etir cost

like high damage attack

[steady yacht]

give the fire staffs a point blank explosion so i can just stamp the base of my staff on the ground and go BOOM

[random monolith]

that would be cool

[lament zinc]

Do it with fire hazard world modifier on and you will discover the secret food: "Player Flambée."

[rose swan]

#suggestions message might look a bit odd in the UI, no? 🤔

[peak bronze]

Dunno.

[errant mauve]

Better idea = new forsaken ability, increase inventory by 10 slots
After 5 minutes if youre still using them everything gets trashed (jk)

[granite geyser]

which also deals dmg to the player

[steady yacht]

a frost one that creates a small aoe blizzard around the player (that also damages the player)

[pale oasis]

It's never bothered people in other games where inventory slots don't align perfectly as you add more.

[random monolith]

I love this idea

[rose swan]

It would bother me a bit for sure, but I suppose I could be in the minority

[pale oasis]

Yeah, can't say I've ever seen it discussed when other games do it.

[rose swan]

I can’t even think of a game with such an inventory to be honest, except for Zelda BotW 🤔

[pale oasis]

A lot of MMOs have inventory that upgrades in weird amounts, like WoW.

Upgradable inventory seems more common in multiplayer games. Solo RPGs seem to favor unlimited spaces but limited carry weight, or the Diablo approach of limited spaces but not upgradable.

And then some games just let you carry everything without limits.

[errant mauve]

I can see why Heim doesnt do that, a lot of things in the game push you to return to your base a lot

[pale oasis]

It's the survival game approach, since most RPGs don't have a player base, selling/buying items or turning in quests are usually the main go-to reasons for getting players back to town. But survival games are much more focused on player bases with multiple reasons to go back. Craft new items, build more of your base, rest, eat, sort loot.

[rose swan]

That makes sense, I don’t play MMOs really so I don’t see those styles of inventories.

[languid ibex]

An additional inventory slot would require a rework of the UI, I would much rather see a new inventory page/tab unlock and +4 vertical slots per forsaken defeated.

[pale oasis]

To be fair, some of the UI could use touching up regardless.

[wanton atlas]

4 new is alot 😮

[pale oasis]

Especially per boss. That's a lot!

[languid ibex]

I am just suggesting within the constraints of not requiring a complete UI rework

[stark furnace]

ye that's a little excessive imo 😅

[pale oasis]

Not sure how 4 slots is easier than just doing 1.

[languid ibex]

Because it aligns with each boss to unlock with an entire new page of the inventory.

[pale oasis]

By that thinking, new inventory slots begin in page 2, but the number of slots it offers doesn't matter. It could start with 1, then later you get a second.

[wanton atlas]

64 slots when you finished the game? 😄

[languid ibex]

Like the inventory we have now would become 1/2 pages/tabs

Yeah, I would rather than that another popup for backpacks or having to test a complete UI rework

Across all platforms and resolutions etc.

You could also give other methods to unlock slots though, I was mostly just theorizing with forsaken unlocking them solely. With the end goal being unlocking all slots in a whole other page of inventory.

[peak bronze]

Wouldn't it be solved simply by extending the UI with an empty row at bottom and then the slots on that row after unlocking them?

[wanton atlas]

that's what alot of games do

taunting you forever with slots, you can unlock eventually

[lament zinc]

@coral shoal type /stats in your chat box and you will be able to see when you started, how often you've died, if you've cheated, which worlds you've visited and a lot more.

[mellow crater]

Oh, that is quite intresting

[barren pewter]

I think either dedicated equip slots or +1 per forsaken defeated

[coral shoal]

What is the time next to known worlds? Im guessing the stats feature got added after launch right

[barren pewter]

Reason being there’s 8 columns just add 1 slot per boss hanged at spawn

Not sure how helpful the last slot would be after the last boss or what there would be to do 🤷‍♂️ but it’s modest enough to feel earned and imo wouldn’t break the inventory system considering all the gear people want to bring

[wanton atlas]

I would hate a separated UI for inventory items

then people will just complain anyways

"yeah, you added dedicated slots, but I still can't pickup all these items"

[barren pewter]

Same UI just an added slot once the boss is hanged

[peak bronze]

Maybe first boss could grant +2 and others +1, having 8 slots (full row) after Fader?

[barren pewter]

I like this maybe two after moder since that’s like halfway a bigger reward to prepare you for the bigger stuff later

Cause after the first boss you don’t really need it imo

[autumn idol]

V Rising does this. You start with 27 slots (3/5th of total inventory space) and unlock 18 more through upgrading your bag.

Not saying that's necessarily what I want for Valheim though

[stark furnace]

I think the cooler part of v risings system is how you go from taking silver coin dmg ticks to gaining resistance to em as you upgrade your backpack

[autumn idol]

I love that too. I struggled with Christina on my first brutal run and spent much of Act 2 burning a hole through my pocket while racing to spend my silver coins at the vendors.

[lament zinc]

@sage pebble Have you ever considered to add a map marker on your map after you've docked your boat? Because with that #suggestions message isn't needed at all.

[sage pebble]

I try to do this as much as possible but i forget it a bunch and have to try to figure out where i could have left it. With my suggestion this extra tediousness would be removed. This problem could definitely just be me being stupid but if others agree its a possible addition.

[peak bronze]

Fair, Moder is one gatekeeping boss anyway so why not her granting +2.

[coral shoal]

I dont see the day I started on my stats

[lament zinc]

You're right. I thought it was there, but I seem to be mistaken.
Appologies.

[wanton atlas]

👀

should be able to see when you first started the current map if you scroll all the way up

[coral shoal]

I dont see it on mine, I sent a pic in #valheim-help

[wanton atlas]

hm.. right

it's bugged 🤔

[coral shoal]

I made a new character just now to check and nothing

[wanton atlas]

and it only tells you days spent on a map

[lament zinc]

Question is, is it PTB related or not?
I'm in the PTB. How about you, Jonathan?

[coral shoal]

Im in the main build

Is it different in the PTB?

[lament zinc]

Guess that makes it non-PTB related then.
I leave it to you to post it as a bug in either https://discord.com/channels/391142601740517377/1202549675924787220 , https://discord.com/channels/391142601740517377/1202550076216573962 or https://discord.com/channels/391142601740517377/1249850223476605009 ; depending at the OS you use.

PTB has some changes which might cause bugs.
So if it was related to that, I had to make a bug report of it.
But since you got the issue as well, it's in the main build before the PTB.

There's a different channel for PTB related problems; hence why I asked.

[coral shoal]

I switched to PTB and theres no start date on there lol

Im just guessing at this point that its not a thing

[lament zinc]

But you also missed it in the version that was released before the PTB, hence it's a non-PTB option.

[coral shoal]

Do you have a starting date? Can you show me

[lament zinc]

No, I don't.

[coral shoal]

Did u ever have one

[lament zinc]

I think I did before the Bog Witch patch, but I'm not 100% certain about it.

[granite geyser]

@sage pebble so the same way that's already there

[pale oasis]

Yeah, hold-E is already a thing.

[sage pebble]

Yeah but it aint fast enough

[coral shoal]

Hold e is pretty quick lol

[pale oasis]

It's instant for me as soon as my crosshair is on the item.

[sage pebble]

I mean for smelters and coal makers

[pale oasis]

Ah, that's a different thing. Thought you meant looting.

[coral shoal]

Ah

[sage pebble]

It still exists for the smelters but spamming is faster, and for me efficiency = satisfaction

[granite geyser]

that would be a different suggestion

[sage pebble]

Ill reword it when my cooldown is done

[granite geyser]

you could've just edited it

[sage pebble]

Yeah but thought of that too late

[pale oasis]

Yeah, it would be nice just having a keybind to automatically fill them (maybe takes a couple seconds).

[sage pebble]

Even better idea

[pale oasis]

Late-game, the metal quantities you need to smelt get pretty high; it'd be nice to have a more efficient (and less tedious) why of doing it.

[barren pewter]

Ye cause isn’t moder technically the one boss that hard locks you out of progression anyway

[stiff stag]

Yes, since the boss drop is necessary for unlocking the next step of progression, with no possible alternatives like there are at other stages of the game (e.g. using trolls to mine ores in the black forest, finding muddy scrap piles in the swamp itself for iron, locating exposed silver veins in the mountains, etc.).

[languid ibex]

I had mentioned that'd require testing across platforms and resolutions, it'd be much easier from a development perspective to utilize it as is.

[coral shoal]

Hey any idea when stats started tracking in game? It says I have 23 hours on my save but thats def not true. Its a save from launch

[languid ibex]

Strange, my from launch save says 800

[coral shoal]

I have 130 hours on steam, I had 90 atleast on 1 save and the others on a multiplayer server

[languid ibex]

Maybe its not as far off as you think 🤔

[rose swan]

4 slots seems like a lot? 🤔
(Sorry for reviving this convo lol but I meant to ask a while ago)

[coral shoal]

Nah it makes no sense, 23 in 1 save but I have 130 on steam

[stark furnace]

+4 per forsaken defeated

[coral shoal]

It also says I defeated 0 bosses when im at modar

[languid ibex]

I mean if you consider having double the inventory at the end of the game far too much, sure. Personally I think it'd need testing.

[coral shoal]

I defeated the first 3 bosses back when the game first came out, in a 2 week span

[rose swan]

Ahhhh gotcha gotcha, alright I’m caught up now lol

[stark furnace]

While we're at it I think +6 total is "just right", it still makes inventory choices important but alleviates some of the stress felt in ash/mistlands

It's a tough topic though cause we're all gonna have a different number of what feels right 😅

[rose swan]

I guess I’ll share… My Opinion!

I guess I’m of a simple mind! I would just like to see a tab on the inventory that brings up additional dedicated gear slots. Simple, straightforward, intuitive

I guess I’m not opposed to something progression-based like a bag or something, but I’m pretty opposed to having a backpack model appear on the character.

No slot for equipped weapons, arrows, food or mead. Just stuff your character wears, minus ammunition. 🤔

[stark furnace]

Yea I'm down for somethin like that

[rose swan]

Thought stepping into the realm of permanent character upgrades does sound a kinda interesting.

Actually I think I’m going to backtrack. I think it could be considered fair to have one ammo slot. This way the bow/crossbow doesn’t effectively take up at minimum two slots.

I’m a huge Terraria fan, so I guess my thoughts lean into the way they do things a bit

[pale oasis]

I kind of wish you could "load" ammo into the ranged item in the inventory (not load in the sense of a gun), just as a way of saving a slot, and you'd still be able to easily swap what was attached to it.

[autumn idol]

This is what I would like as well. It just feels intuitive and aesthetically pleasing to me to have dedicated equipment slots even if it’s a departure from what we have now.

[rose swan]

That’s not a bad idea 🤔

On a side note, I suppose a day still hasn’t gone by without an inventory suggestion

[pale oasis]

If it makes you feel any better, even if they did improve inventory, you'd probably still see people complaining about it! But probably less frequently.

[stiff stag]

They should add 1 single slot but it's way off the screen so it can never be used. Then they can say that they technically increased the inventory space.

[stark furnace]

i can totally see them adding an inv expac as the end reward to the deep north boss and bein like yo we added inv slots

[autumn idol]

Or add a backpack with additional slots... but it uses your cape slot, reduces movement speed by 5%, and prevents you from dodge rolling

I'd still use that personally but I imagine the player base would be less than thrilled with it

[granite geyser]

that's just the player base regardless

[autumn idol]

Fair point

[stone citrus]

player base would be less than thrilled
self report

[inner urchin]

@peak bronze i like that alternate idea for inventory slot. Though I'm not sure how it plays out and how it will be programed. The first 6 biomes don't exactly have the problem of inventory issue but it can be handy if you're farming so inventory management isn't an issue.

Though having to beat from eikthyr and queen can payoff well in the ashlands as that's the only biome with the most amount of inventory filling.

Usually backpacks or alternative hud accessories like armor, belts and pendants are usually the suggestied for inventory issue but the forsaken idea is actually a pretty good one.

[barren pewter]

Me and someone else in here discussed earlier every time you hang up a boss you get an inventory slot except for moder you get a +2 cause that’s when about in the game you start needing a lil more space so by the time your done with the 7th boss you’ll have all 8 new slots available

Lol it was joelkii ig I already saw our discussion then possibly

[sonic musk]

@twilit olive what an amazing suggestion you have. This is one of the only times I've ever seen someone post multiple suggestions in the same post and every single suggestion is awesome

[stone citrus]

Walking around the base with a belly full of 3 carrots
Approve

[tulip pecan]

3 carrots:
health = 10 + 5 + 3 = 18
stamina = 32 + 16 + 10 = 58
compared to a single carrot soup which grants 45 stamina and 15 hp, and a queen's jam which also grants 45 stamina and 14 hp

[barren pewter]

Now do 3 serpent stew

[tulip pecan]

3 serpent stew:
health = 80 + 40 + 27 = 147
stamina = 26 + 13 + 9 = 48
a serpent stew plus a single wolf skewer would net you 145 hp and 47 stamina, for comparison

[barren pewter]

Would be pretty broken but it would go pretty quick cause you could get it pretty early idk kinda cool

[barren pewter]

This include base stam and HP

[tulip pecan]

No, I forgot about those :(

this is just the total value

[barren pewter]

Right

So 172 hp and 98 stam

Would kinda break early game imo

Don’t hate the idea tho maybe just limit serpent stew

[tulip pecan]

serpent stew is an outlier to the system i'll admit

[barren pewter]

It’s an outlier food in general

[tulip pecan]

usually i put ocean between mountain and plains in terms of thinking of valheim's progression

[barren pewter]

However serpents are relatively rare but it would guarantee boss fights if you were a little cautious

As soon as I hit the waters in a karve it’s free game to me I’ll hunt them a lil risky however

At least in the karve

[tulip pecan]

wait actually, don't you at least need iron to make serpent stew?

for the big cooking station

[barren pewter]

Truuuu I forgot

Still swamp still quite early to have those stats

[tulip pecan]

serpent stew + sausages + black soup = 185 hp, 61 stam
which is better than just 3 straight serp stews

[stone citrus]

HP/tick too

[tulip pecan]

I'm not sure how hp/tick should be affected by the proposal
It's such a low number and an integer
even then, perhaps it would be best to err on the side of consverative balance and say the 1/2, 1/3 applies too
we round 1/2 of a hp/tick to 1, but 1/3 to 0.

[barren pewter]

Could prove for another reason to diversify foods!

[tulip pecan]

hp/tick for all previous examples
3 carrots: 1 + 1 + 0 = 2 hp/tick
carrot soup or queen's jam: 2 hp/tick
3 serpent stew: 4 + 2 + 1 = 7 hp/tick
serpent stew + wolf skewer = 4 + 3 = 7 hp/tick
serpent stew + sausages + black soup = 4 + 3 + 3 = 10 hp/tick

[mellow crater]

@molten grotto keep PTB feedbacks in the correct channels

O!ptb

[granite kite]

Please keep Public test spoilers in the #valheim-public-test channel and feedback in the #call-to-arms-update-feedback-only.
To gain access to the public test, you go to id:customize and click the Public-test role

[wanton atlas]

it's not an official information thing. so it doesn't work ask intended all the time sadly

[lament zinc]

Days with too much inventory discussion: 155

[pale drum]

#suggestions message should include Hildir's clothes

[rose swan]

And the fishing hat

[topaz kite]

Whoever says no to bear rug better have a good reason

[errant mauve]

People sometimes say no to any change no matter what lol.

Oh, yeah well that makes sense.

[stiff stag]

Ptb related content also doesn't belong in these channels.

[rose swan]

#suggestions message ah yes, my favorite chef! Master Chief!

[pale drum]

#suggestions message This would probably result in more blind playthrough players accidentally skipping stone oven in exchange for a minority (sequence breakers) getting a very small benefit

[tulip pecan]

I mean, I'd like to give players who've gotten that far a little bit more credit than that. The artisan table unlocks stone oven, blast furnace, spinning wheel and windmill. Two of those are required to unlock the next tier of armor & tools, and if they're not going to at least try to build the other two out of curiosity to see what they do then that's kind of their loss.

[mellow crater]

On another hand, if you can steal marble in mistlands with mountain gears and food, do you really need accessible plains food ?

[tulip pecan]

Well, yes actually. Everything you can eat from Mistlands that isn't behind the Modergate is strictly worse than mountains-tier food. The best thing is cooked seeker or hare meat (60 hp, 20 stam)

and you get no reward from the sheer difficulty of getting a level 4 cooking station early, which is sad :(

usually you can get something good foodwise from braving into the next biome before you're supposed to
turnips from swamp, onions from mountains, etc.
but plains and beyond, basically nada
well no actually, you can craft some ashlands meals with a level 5 cauldron, but the rest require level 6

why that's not true for mistlands (being able to craft say, salad with a level 4 cauldron) idk

[mellow crater]

I mean, if you can brave mistlands in these conditions, you can kill moder easily

I understand the charm of getting to the next biome without the complete intended stuff

But I can’t see why it should give a serious advantage

[tulip pecan]

getting as far as possible without killing any bosses is a challenge run i and some others like to do
at a certain point past plains the game design gets overly hostile to that though
not saying that it's too hard, just the amount of progression possible from each biome drops off significantly, as do alternative ways to achieve progress
for example, there are multiple ways to achieve iron (crypts (scrap), hidden swamp piles (scrap), oozers (scrap), fishing (ore), frost cave doors (ingot), mistlands bridges (ingot)) but only one way to achieve blackmetal (using a blast furnace to smelt ore from fulings)

[sonic musk]

Reason #1 It's a PTB suggestion
Reason #2 It seemed like a troll suggestion because for the 100,000,000,000th time anything related to PTB is not meant to be posted in the suggestion channel
Reason #3 the ONLY reason to post "bear rug" suggestion means you know 100% bears are in the game, aka it's PTB related, and if bears are in the game with bear hide, there's a 99% chance bear rugs will be made already. That's like suggesting "Make fire torches for the meadows" it's so obvious that it can't be a real suggestion. It's obviously in the game, or will be in the game
Reason #4 Not every idea is a genius idea. Everyone is allowed to downvote or upvote any suggestion. You don't need a good reason if you don't personally agree with a suggestion

It makes me so sad that people try to spoil or be cheeky or find some way to mention upcoming content at every single opportunity, even when being told countless times to keep spoiler content in the right channels. I instantly downvoted it because it's not meant to be posted publicly. Please stop trying to spoil the upcoming content. I am on the PTB myself and I can't avoid spoilers. I'm playing on a friend's server that is PTB, but I don't want to know anything about the update more than I have to. A lot of people don't. There is a channel for PTB discussion, please don't try to ruin it for everyone else.

[jaunty sedge]

what does the "recycled" vote mean?

[random monolith]

Its already been suggested

[jaunty sedge]

ah, i assumed as much

thanks

[mellow crater]

Yeah I see it very well. Honestly, even if the devs clearly intended to let us “go where we want and try”, Moder kind of lock the challenge here.
What is important to keep in mind anyway is that the goal in this game is to kill the forsaken. In this regard, I don’t think devs should spend time and resources on facilitating a challenge that skip the goal of the game. So, yes the game is hostile to no-boss run, but it is just not meant for that.

[stark furnace]

No boss runs were so close to being insane, all we needed was the smelted black metal to be dropped in the ashlands vases and we'd be cookin

[rose swan]

So what is it about black metal that’s so important? The crafting stations? 🤔

[stark furnace]

bm allows for eitr + getting into queen legit

you're still gonna be missing out on linen + oven foods but it'd be a huge jump

[random monolith]

I'd just like to say that the idea of an alter of protection is amazing imo

[wanton atlas]

dude..

O!ptb

[granite kite]

Please keep Public test spoilers in the #valheim-public-test channel and feedback in the #call-to-arms-update-feedback-only.
To gain access to the public test, you go to id:customize and click the Public-test role

[languid ibex]

Wrong channel

[fervent acorn]

ohhh, sorry

[rose swan]

Ahh right, need galdr table to make the sealbreaker. Would a way to get a limited supply of black metal be a proper “fix?” Like hypothetically if a sealed tower gave 2 or 3 black metal? 🤔

(Though I guess Ashlands vases would actually be better lol)

[languid ibex]

The idea is cool, but I would sooner see one of the merchants have a casting cost, building that altar seems a bit too convenient and could sidestep the utility of the staff in some cases. If you need to make an additional portal trip and purchase the casting, that'd be better for me.

[rose swan]

I guess I might be misunderstanding, what would be the point over just simply having a second staff of protection? 🤔

[random monolith]

Wdym by a merchant having a casting cost?

[languid ibex]

They mentioned in the suggestion they wouldn't want to make another.

[languid ibex]

Like 1200 gold per protection spell casting.

[rose swan]

But then also mentioned requiring one to make the alter 🤔

[random monolith]

what the

Why would you pay a merchant to cast a protection spell on you

[languid ibex]

Yeah, the logic falls apart there for sure lmao

[languid ibex]

So you don't need to make another staff

[rose swan]

#suggestions message Alright this actually sounds kinda cool, even if it’s a bit silly lol but I gotta respect the originality of this.

[random monolith]

I never knew I wanted serpent scale shingles so badly until I saw it suggested

[arctic wharf]

not neccessarily new, but I do like the idea. The green shingles would look cool.

[rose swan]

Would go with black marble quite well! Not something I would super advocate for || || but a fun idea for sure!

[languid ibex]

Coming to realize some of the regulars of this channel have their 1 chosen above all suggestion to support

[rose swan]

There’s definitely a handful that I’m pretty passionate about!

[languid ibex]

ZionE - reasons to revisit dungeons/older biomes
Dogg - wider range of planting within reason
Samaramon - taming necks/friendly necks
these are all I can think of atm, but obviously their ideas aren't this simple

[rose swan]

I remember back when magic was a much requested feature 🤔

Tamed boars not being afraid of fire…
Barely stacking to 50…
Barrels, candles, more banner colors…
Chickens, crossbows…

Been a lot of suggestions that have actually made it into the game!

[arctic wharf]

very true hahaha

I love dungeons though in general and would love if we had like 3x the amount we currently do hahaha

Overall though, my main desire is just to keep the whole of valheim a bit more interconnected with reason to explore it's entirety right up to the end of the game. To often games just move you from one to the next level of progression and the world increasingly becomes full of space you don't ever care to consider going to again.

Why I really love a handful of metroidvanias and LoZ.

[cosmic flower]

A suggestion mentioning Serpent Scale Shingle Roof made me realize how glorious that could look.

[random monolith]

yess exactly

[barren pewter]

Would have to cost one shell or up the rate on them imo

[wanton atlas]

a bunch more 🙂

[subtle marlin]

what do people like to see in a suggestion? do you prefer small additions (like one build piece in a suggestion) or bigger changes that add new weapons/enemies?

[wanton atlas]

usually new ideas

you can search the #suggestions channel to see other things already been suggested and upvote those

[subtle marlin]

so just... any new idea?

[raven bramble]

Tbh wish we could make a "bonus seed" where basically it copies whatever the player built/destroyed/changed in the world so we can share worlds with cool builds without the bullshittery with digging in your game files

[granite geyser]

Yes

#suggestions message

"The fairies are ally's and work the same as the dverger"

Lol

[subtle marlin]

i feel like they just said "add the mistlands 2"

also how do you do that

[rose swan]

Farming skill+scythe, world modifiers, stone portal, list goes on

[subtle marlin]

do people like their own suggestions?

[peak bronze]

You mean give upvote? Some do, some don't.

I'd assume people would like their own ideas nonetheless.

[subtle marlin]

yeah i did. i was kinda asking by a person to person basis. I meant do YOU like your own suggestions

[lament zinc]

If you don't like a suggestion you thought of, then why post it in the first place?

I mean:" Hey, I got this idea, but I think it's total sh!t and doesn't fit the game, so I posted it anyway."

Doesn't make sense to me at all.

[honest walrus]

i mean i never like my own comments on social media in general

[lusty ice]

Are you thinking of the thumbs up/down when you post a suggestion?

You posted the suggestion, I would assume you stand by it, and would give a thumbs up if someone else posted it first. Like your own post is kind a strange

[stone citrus]

It's a tale as old as time
Liking your own comment is like eating your own hotdog

[languid ibex]

It's a bit amusing watching someone's idea be downvoted to oblivion, but the one upvote is themselves. 😅

[rose swan]

In the states, presidential candidates can vote for themselves

[rose swan]

I feel personally attacked, because I made hot dogs yesterday and of course at some lol

[errant mauve]

I think you're missing what was said

Is it not just that a bot adds the voting buttons?

[rose swan]

Oh don’t worry, I understand the implication

[errant mauve]

Oh, no its added under Odin, so yeah it wouldnt appear as in your like your own thing

[tulip pecan]

no no, you see, what you don't realize is that a no-boss run is actually the first part of a reverse boss run and what gigachad based devs would do is have a secret feature where fighting the last boss first gives the previous boss in line an insane power boost, and so on until you're fighting Eikthyr who is now the god of all deer and can actually split mountains in half

[safe urchin]

I have a server suggestion: Can we have a separate channel just for funny Troll death pose images and literally nothing else? xD

[stiff stag]

#suggestions message playing without portals is an optional setting, not what the game is designed around playing on, so it should not be changed since it interferes with how it's meant to be on normal settings.

[random monolith]

#suggestions message
In a void I think this'd be a cool idea but thats a lot of new hats for the devs to make and balance

[languid ibex]

Agreed, and most would go underutilized.

[random monolith]

Yeah inevitably some would become meta compared to the rest

[rose swan]

Also agree. It’s cool on paper, but would be hard to deliver effectively 🤔

[languid ibex]

I like the current approach tbh, Lighter Armor = Easier to craft, Medium Armor = Some difficulty to attain+bonuses, Heavier Armor = Most difficult to attain+best defenses

[tulip pecan]

If you ever feel useless, remember bronze armor exists and is only moderately more protective than troll armor while slowing you down and being really expensive

[languid ibex]

At least it looks cool early on though 😅

[tulip pecan]

The point being that not even existing gear is fully balanced

[stone citrus]

The hats sound like bloat

[tulip pecan]

I mean it sounds like a variation of the three different gem socket weapons in ashlands

[languid ibex]

I could get behind some trophy hats if they provided a camouflage of sorts with that enemy. It's a fun concept, but still very unnecessary and a gimmick without actual use.

[rose swan]

I don’t know, the idea just doesn’t land for me on a broad scale like that 🤔

[stone citrus]

Not to nitpick
But lifesteal would be used the whole game if it existed 🙀

1-3% would go very hard
Bis helmet until after dn

[languid ibex]

Maybe, it's rare that I even take a hit that I'd need more life beyond regular regen imo

[rose swan]

And some trophies wouldn’t translate well to helms, another nitpick

[tulip pecan]

I was researching some Hollow Knight charm configurations the other day and the exact same point was brought up
"You don't need to heal if you never get hit, ez"

[languid ibex]

Yeah, with rested bonus already being generous, meads existing, I'd sooner take more armor than have to engage in active combat to heal myself.

[rose swan]

Cool thing about health regen is that you could trade hits easier, so your DPS can sit really high 🤔

[stone citrus]

But if you ignore trying to not get hit, you just mash and win faster

[tulip pecan]

You don't want to wear a pair of burnt skeleton legs on your head?

[rose swan]

LOL my first thought exactly 😂

[languid ibex]

I don't think it's a fair assumption to make that you'd be outhealing the amount of damage you'd accrue tbh, it's just a theory without any set parameters.

[tulip pecan]

Although I always thought the wraith trophy was seriously slept on in terms of outfit potential

[rose swan]

That’s fair, I was just trying to give an example though!

But honestly, would rather see the resources into something like armor sets than a huge list of helmets.

If I were given the option between the two.

[languid ibex]

Unique equipment like the feather cape or dvergr circlet with actual uses are the only way I'd want helmets like that to go imo

They have a solid approach with sets currently, and even retroactively hit it out of the park

[rose swan]

Yee, I think the cape gear is a good outlet for interesting effects and the like.

[languid ibex]

I saw someone mention on the reddit that upgrading the Wisplight could have additional effects, like the unarmed secondary attack could clear mist in a large circle with the kick.

I really enjoyed that take on a Wisplight upgrade, seemed to consider the limitations with it nicely

[rose swan]

I thought the idea of having more wisps flying around you with upgrades sounded kinda cool. Assuming the wisplight would take wisps to upgrade, would be kinda cute!

[languid ibex]

The issue there is the dynamic movements becoming far more complicated, where a single kick clearling a small chunk in a stationary place wouldn't have those calculations.

[rose swan]

Fair enough. I don’t really know much about the specifics I started to take a liking to the idea when my and my friend would walk together in the mistalnds and our wisps would lead the way.

I remember being really impressed when Yagluths drop gained functionality, I think the whole concept of wisps is extremely cool.

[languid ibex]

It'd be neat if they had utility outside of the Mistlands, like a wishbone for dungeons, where they pulse when one is in rendering distance, and fly to it's door within 15m.

[rose swan]

Fly through locked doors in dungeons to retrieve loot for you or something lol

[arctic wharf]

funny I wasn't online at this time hahaha. I like all of my own suggestions... but that is because I also try to have a vote on EVERY single suggestion - including my own.

[arctic wharf]

I thought about this a whoooole bunch too and had quite a few ideas.
For example, maybe if there was a few POI's that had a small patch of mist lingering in them (Think like the little stone tent burial ground things that sometimes have a pile of bones under them), and bringing the wisp would permanently clear the small patch and cause a "hidden" chest to appear. 🤭

Could also have it be useful inside a special mist filled dungeon as well... perhaps if mistlands gets a dungeon for something like my last suggestion it would be flooded with mist.

[languid ibex]

I think that's a step in the right direction for sure, considering wisps are drawn to torn spirits, it has some possibilities beyond clearing mist. There could be buried dungeon entrances with 2 star ghosts and 2 star wraiths inside the mist filled dungeon. These dungeons only generate in the meadows beyond 800m from spawn, they have gates that require a battering ram, and offer a secondary way to attain black cores/gemstones.

[arctic wharf]

That's are real spicy concept in many a way

[languid ibex]

Hahaha I like a bit of spice 🧑‍🍳

[arctic wharf]

Of particular note, it's great to weave in some more use for other items that atm have extremely limited use also (such as the battering ram).

Niceu

[languid ibex]

Cheers, of course it's a farfetched suggestion considering alternate dungeon generation and styles would be needed, so I added some pseudo progression based dungeon running aspects. Sure you could locate them with a Wisp, but then you'd be stopped by a door that seemingly won't break, and when you reach the Ashlands, a little light would go off in your head about that curious discovery.

[arctic wharf]

Might need a bit more than just 2* enemies that we already have fought though to challange us, but just weaving in a new third mob that has a particularly challanging mechanic would be enough.

Extra spicy angry ghost mob.
Revenent?

[languid ibex]

2 Star Rancid Remains?

[arctic wharf]

Exactly the kind of lights going off in the players heads I have been wanting hahaha

[languid ibex]

Rancid Remains alternates with other elemental damage perhaps

[arctic wharf]

2 star of existing mobs just won't have much impact due to us already knowing what to expect from them. Need at least one new mob to make the player think again due to new attacks / mechanics.

[languid ibex]

That's true, in the spirit of theory crafting a dungeon around ghosts, it could be interesting to have an enemy that isn't bound by the terrain whatsoever.

No cheesing at the entrance, no funneling it into anywhere, etc.

[arctic wharf]

But yeah, dungeons additions should not be taken lightly. Depending on how they are approached they ask for a lot of new assets.
And sadly I can't say I was impressed much with hilders quest dungeons (setting aside the tower which is not instanced and also really cool).

[arctic wharf]

That would be sick, just let it no-clip fly through walls.
Would at least confine it to inside the dungeon ofc, but I would be completely down for that 🔥 👻 🔥

[languid ibex]

It definitely doesn't hit as hard when it's the only quest of it's type, if there were other quests it might not feel like it should deliver more than it does.

[arctic wharf]

Design their attack pattern to always nearly match the players height and fly in from the sides, that way it won't nibble your feet through the floor or come from directly above 🤭

[languid ibex]

I believe the Deathsquito attack patterns would suit this, as they do exactly that when fighting on steep hills and whatnot.

I can't be sure how much they're actually "flying" though, they may have invisible collision with terrain/water.

[arctic wharf]

Honestly hilders quest was 50% a let down for me. When I heard more dungeons with mini bosses... I expected a bit more than just a reskin of existing ones.
Its a bit too minimal of an approuch.

[languid ibex]

It's also a bit unintuitive to have these quests inevitably done in a peculiar order, because you must first find Hildir, which informs an amount of progression for exploring typically beyond Black Forest and arguably Plains biomes.

I think it'd be better if Hugin presented these markers to you, and collecting even one chest would add an additional marker signifying a merchant(Hildir) to be found there.

Or at the very least Hugin would mark Brenna's dungeon after defeating the Elder, and collecting that chest would mark Hildir.

To prevent any further awkward progression with the quests.

[random monolith]

...but thats what oak trees are like, they tend to branch out and droop down

[languid ibex]

The suggestion isn't calling for a change to that, just an additional taller variant, which do exist in nature.

[stark furnace]

#suggestions message An egg or a vulture egg?

[somber remnant]

Vulture egg

[spring quiver]

Suggestion- Add all the boss items to be placeable on the wall/ground mounts. The dragon's tear, dragons egg (not a boss item) and Yagluth's items look very cool as decorations. I had a cool idea to use several of Eikthyr's antlers to make a kind of stag antler display but was upset to find out i cant place them. An added suggestion to allow for them to be rotated vertically once placed - so one could be a 90degree left facing, and then a 45degree left facing, then top facing etc.. (think hands on a clock)

[twilit olive]

I suggest you take that message and put it in the #suggestions channel, with a 💡 emoji at the very beginning of the message.

[spring quiver]

oh, this is discussion lol

[clever silo]

I second this i need to be able to ponder my orb (dragon's tear)

[languid ibex]

You can upvote the suggestion in #suggestions

[languid ibex]

O!ptb @trim comet

[granite kite]

Please keep Public test spoilers in the #valheim-public-test channel and feedback in the #call-to-arms-update-feedback-only.
To gain access to the public test, you go to id:customize and click the Public-test role

[trim comet]

Sorry! Edited to exclude spoiler.

[granite geyser]

#suggestions message

Exploitable. You could hurt an enemy up until it has 1% left and then use pickaxe or something to kill it and gain exp for the pickaxe instead of the weapon that depleted 99% of its hp

[wanton atlas]

or just go slaughter greydwarfs for days 😄

also. if I would go around killing little bastards all day, I don't get better at it

[lofty wave]

Enemies don't give pickaxe xp unless it's been changed since I last tested it

[mellow crater]

This work with the current system

[arctic wharf]

Skills... cringe

[peak bronze]

Should we call it... Skill issue?

[north garden]

Notice the part where i said the xp you get scales based on the strenght of the stuff you kill?

[wanton atlas]

I like it just as it is now

[stone citrus]

I agree and disagree
Which means I hope combat update has a solution

[wanton atlas]

deathsquitos are super fragile, but does massive damage for example

[north garden]

Also i though this would encourage players to not just farm the weakest enemies with the weakest weapons to farm xp

[stone citrus]

With the suggestion*

And I believe level 100 should be achievable semi-naturally

[north garden]

Because right now the best way to get bow to 100 is to shoot bonemas with the first bow you get for hours. Or something along those lines. I don't know because I don't like farming for skills myself

[stone citrus]

And making it scale with damage makes the early game leveling trivial

[arctic wharf]

I agree that players should end the game between level 80 to 100 from playing naturally also...

Made suggestions to that end

XP required to level inflates massively, while on the flip side nothing is stopping you from mindlessly grinding to 100 (which is not fun gameplay in the slightest).

[stone citrus]

Me, myself is stopping me from 100
Will never

I bet only 6 people ever achieved it

[arctic wharf]

Same... because I am too lazy for that.

[stone citrus]

I play RuneScape
God knows I can hit 100 in every single valheim skill no problem
But would never

Not in valheim

[arctic wharf]

Just sets you up to feel the pain from some random accidental death deleting hours of pointless grinding... since the higher level you get, the amount you lose also massively inflates.

[stone citrus]

So definitely on the side of natural level80-100
Looking at you, block

[arctic wharf]

All the flaws of the system are why I ignore it exists... why bother ever paying attention to it 😂
Its not passively contributing to the gameplay in a very positive way past the black forest.

Anywho, same story as it's been for years. 🤷‍♂️
Is still far more that valheim gets right, so it gets a pass here and there.

[granite geyser]

because the ptb version isn't live yet

[stone citrus]

Yeah it goes without saying
None of these tiny things matter in the long run

• Can be modded out later anyway

[stiff stag]

Skills are optional, level up naturally as you play, and farming them is a choice players impose upon themselves. Maintaining high skill levels should also be a challenge regardless, so it would require a lot of fine tuning to make it still take a good amount of time and effort while not being too quick and easy late game.

[jaunty sedge]

Honestly, despite how cool the new battle buddy and target is, i wonder if its not going to give ppl the opposite impression - that grinding your skills is something the game expects

[granite geyser]

their existence not only implies that but also might mean that they won't overhaul skills either in general or the gain

which sucks badly. It's an early decision that aged poorly

[jaunty sedge]

To me, skills are just a little extra bonus and incentive to not die, but not so important that dying is the worst. They're best not being paid attention to, which i dont, so i wouldn't know in what ways they'd need to be overhauled.

Until magic, which comes so later and affects so much that i do focus on trying to get up my blood magic

[uncut linden]

My friend and I play with skill loss on death off. But he suspects recently that it still takes levels away.
Is that a bug or are we not understanding how it works?

[lofty wave]

The lowest death penalty setting is 1% loss

[wanton atlas]

screenshot your skills, die, look at screenshot and compare

[uncut linden]

Oks :3

[lament zinc]

Frost giants are always cool.
Just like fire giants are always hot.

But seeing them being added? Nah, I don't think that's a good idea.
Not everyone likes to fights the big boys that can kill you with two hits because you're not a master of dodge-rolling.

[mellow crater]

Why should it one-shot/two-shot you ? It can stun you or throw you away without dealing that much damage

It could also deal strong damages but being not that hard to kill. After all, you got flammetal weapons, and maybe you can even target a serious weakpoint or just “cut its legs and it is not dangerous anymore”

I’d really like giants in DN anyway. Maybe even as passive mobs that actually don’t care about you little creature that is what an ant is to a human, but you can farm resources on them

Oh, that is an idea. Imagine DN main resource is a cristal that grows on giant’s legs and feet, and you have to harvest it while the thing is moving, so big that it barely notices you

You just have to avoid getting right under the next step of the giant, but except that it would be harmless, just a big moving resource

[lament zinc]

Well, would be nice if the Jotuns are passive, instead of (semi) agressive.

As for the 1-2 hit kills......

Have you seen how large the skulls are we find in the Mistlands?
IF Jotuns are going to be added, they're about 15-20 times as large as the player character is. Meaning they can indeed kill you in 1 or 2 hits.

[lofty wave]

Being big isn't an excuse to be unbalanced

The Elder doesn't kill players any faster than a troll

[languid ibex]

@jolly spire You mean the auto-floor/auto-wall function like-- in the sims?

[jolly spire]

Grounded has where you shift hold you outline the pieces and then can build, there’s no blueprint in valheim but maybe shift hold adds that outline element and lets you know if you have enough material based on “X” tiles

[languid ibex]

Yeah, it's not a function, but I could see a 1x5 build option tbh. Holding shift already crafts things x5 in workbenches, so building wouldnt be so crazy. It could definitely be argued that it isn't necessary though.

[jolly spire]

Multiple variations of building elements would be great, the harder part is balancing the stability element in the game which is a great feature. Seems slight limiting when you don’t have the ability to build vertically or horizontally but 1 square at a time. I run into like the item no longer snapping and then placing random pieces, if they had the feature to build out multiple pieces pre snapped then it would avoid that

[languid ibex]

I don't have that issue personally, I tend to build with snap points very much in mind though.

[jolly spire]

Well once you get to a certain height I gotta build stairs but if it would just let me snap up that high I wouldn’t need stairs or if I’m building roofing I don’t have to keep trying to make the snap pieces match the roofing. Again more QOL than anything else

[languid ibex]

I'm really not sure I understand, you don't like making scaffolding is what I'm getting?

[jolly spire]

The scaffolding is okay aside from no ladders just seems like there could be a QOL added like other games of the same type have

[languid ibex]

Yeah I don't understand sorry, I've never had issues with how high you can snap things, and would just build a temporarily floor/ladder to the roof.

[jolly spire]

Well okay if I build 5 high and then I build roofing another 4 high, a being able to hold shift on like the iron wood beams would be nice since they’re hard to see but since it’s a shift hold build you know it’ll follow the same snap path 5 high up, then the same for the 45 angle up to the 4, shift hold snap all 9 of them 5, and then 4 so there’s no issues

[languid ibex]

Are you aware you can cycle snap points with Q & E?

[jolly spire]

Cycle snap points is fine with an individual piece I’m saying getting all 5 pieces placed simultaneously

[languid ibex]

Right, I'm just not so sure how easy that would be to implement, and the function would have to make some assumptions with building direction, which could be unintuitive.

[jolly spire]

Yeah and the stability system, it would be a lot of work big QOL add for sure.

[languid ibex]

I'm not so sure it'd be a QoL necessarily, placing build pieces isn't time consuming, the reach however. Having a way to increase the build reach would be a QoL imo.

I just placed 5 walls in every direction in less than 3 seconds, so if the intent is there, the system supports building faster already.

[jolly spire]

I mean sure on a 1x1 but when you’re looking at doing 25x25x15 structures going on piece at a time can be very time consuming and when you factor in the stability it gets really time consuming, having the ability to shift hold and drop 10 pieces of stone flooring, then 10 pieces in the other direction, etc etc would be huge in terms of building

[languid ibex]

Right, but with the current system, you'd either have to have a scalable multi-build mechanic that supports placing precise amounts of what you want to build in an intuitive row/column you intend, or you have a set amount-- and end up needing to build upwards/move sideways to continue building anyways.

An increased reach/infinite height reach solves both of those issues without much additional work.

[jolly spire]

Well that’s what I meant for a suggestion not something they have to add but would be nice especially if they add more ways for us to build higher as we all no there’s still limitation but players find a way so who knows what they really want for the system anyways

[rose swan]

#suggestions message Just FYI, you can put carts full of items and destroy them on boats to make crates on the longship. In addition to the storage on the longship, you can reach huge storage on ships.

[twilit olive]

But if there's lag, they shake too much, and some break; would items then fall right to the bottom of the ocean?

[arctic wharf]

At the moment if you just play normally and never subject yourself to any grind, expect your skills to rest between 20 to 60 if you still die on occasion.

I have heard the whole (it's optional) bit a bazillion times 🤭 of course it's optional, but as a mechanic it should also passively support the gameplay instead of incentavising un-fun gameplay.

Never said it should be cut, just adjusted / reworked / fine tuned to better work in the background throughout your whole experience.

Remove the option to mindlessly grind them to max on low unchallanging content.
Optional or not, it's not fun and shouldn't be a thing.

Give it a better pace to more naturally go from low to high level as your progress from the beginning of the game to the end of the game.
Does not neccessarily mean getting to 100 without some effort, but it shouldn't take literal hours upon hours of grinding to see it possible (or being a deathless god).

That it goes from 1 XP for level 1 to 500 XP for level 100 is not ok. That's a 500X increase and explains why early levels go way too fast and then steadily grind to a slog. Just to hit level 100, it takes an obscene 20,300.6 experience.

The bow on top is how you blanket loose experience across all skills on death, making more obscure and harder to level skills even more obscene.

And I have not just complained about it only, as I have made multiple suggestions for concepts on how skills could be better implement to support gameplay in the background throughout the whole experience.

.
Even despite all the flaws and my active choice to just ignore skills, it is still hard to ignore skills when they give me the constant reminder of their existance. 🤭

https://tenor.com/view/warcraft-level-up-wow-world-of-warcraft-gif-15927080

And writing it off really grinds my gears.

[languid ibex]

I disagree where you mention it should be passively supporting gameplay, in my experience it still does exactly that, without such massive leaps in difference that you feel the need to focus on training them.

[arctic wharf]

It does in my opinion while the XP required remains low and thus regaining lost levels is not a big deal.
Which, usually, is until around the mountains / plains.

[languid ibex]

They would probably need rebalancing if I hit 100 on certain things, and stacked that with mead knowledge, ideal sets/weaponry/weaknesses.

[random monolith]

I personally don't care whether I'll ever hit level 100. I just hope they make it harder to mindlessly grind the skills because thats not fun and you're incentivized to do it because skill levels can make or break a build depending on what it is

[languid ibex]

I think the personalization factor around what you've earned plays into making your character feel like yours.

[arctic wharf]

Idk about that... considering hitting 100 is a possibility even if it is an obscene task to accomplish.
Can't just expect players not to ever reach 100 and thus consider the balance for the bonus ok because they expect them to sit around level 50. 🤔

[languid ibex]

I'm saying in a system that allows for progression to enhance how you level up as you suggested.

[wanton atlas]

the skills isn't a must or "you need to be this tall to ride this mountainride"

it is ment show you that the character does better with something when you do it more times over and over again

[languid ibex]

Skills for the most part are in a good place imo, there are just a handful that could use tweaking because of their inevitable low levels with how often these skills are utilized.

[arctic wharf]

Many people suggest gaining more experience based on the content, but my suggestions actually don't.

I leaned towards more of a rebalance to the amount of experience required to even out the curve and stop it from inflating to massive numbers, ofc while combined with a change to stop being able to grind early content to 100 at the same time so players are paced (preventing mindless grinding).

[random monolith]

That sounds great to me

[arctic wharf]

Its fair ofc to have our own opinions.
And being respectful of that even if they differ greatly.

[languid ibex]

You mentioned a better pace across the board as well, while I agree some maximums are ridiculous, that can be part of the accomplishment. Most RPGs won't stray from the extreme for that feeling of accomplishment, where Valheim differs is the punishing skill loss aspect, so that can get confusing.

[arctic wharf]

I have played my fair share of RPGs and put in a bit of grinding on old final fantasy games to hit level 100 with my characters 🤭
I've seen silly.
But it doesn't have to be so silly, it could at least be reasonable.

[leaden kindle]

Skill leveling matters but the levels stop mattering as much as you get later in the game

[languid ibex]

I think the reason being deployed is that level 100 isn't that much more beneficial than level 50, and becomes more of a point of pride surrounding your character rather than a measurable benefit.

[leaden kindle]

most players reach 60 or 70 or what not and above that it really doesn't matter much

[tulip pecan]

Can I share something I made related to addressing the skill system and get some input?

[languid ibex]

Share away 🫡

[arctic wharf]

20 to 60 is the averages I notice (depending on the skill).
And the bonus is not really the point here, since ofc that added benefit from 50 to 100 is not game breaking (usually).

Its more about the feel of the system and going from relevant to irrelevant as they soft lock for most players.
I just find it to be on the silly side as far as overall implementation.

[arctic wharf]

No need to ask, this is the place to chat about such things.

[leaden kindle]

I honestly think skills are really well implemented, they're not a main feature you interact with much but they do reward you for specing into certain play styles. And you don't notice it initially but once you make a 2nd play through you defo feel the difference

[tulip pecan]

https://imgur.com/a/0ht9Uzt
I've probably mentioned my proposal to address the issues with the skill system before, but the basic idea is that each biome in Valheim has an XP multiplier that roughly correlates to how tough it is (an XP point earned in the Plains is worth some x times one earned in the Meadows). I recently put together a table of what those multiplier values might look like. It's the first draft and based mostly on vibes, but I'd like to refine it with feedback.

The main purpose of this system is to provide an incentive for people to gain skill levels back not by grinding weak enemies in early biomes, but by throwing themselves into challenging scenarios where their efforts are rewarded.

Also on the chart for funsies I tossed the idea of some biomes having a benefit to specific skills (green)

[leaden kindle]

it's interesting but wouldn't this be offset by the fact skills increase over time and by the time you're in those biomes you already need to get more xp

[tulip pecan]

What do you mean?

[languid ibex]

I understand the intention behind a system like this, but it could lead to gameplay that emulates FOMO, where if you cook somewhere that doesn't have max EXP for example, it doesn't feel as efficient.

[leaden kindle]

each level for a skill requires more XP than the last. So your skills levels slower over time, this concept would increase how quickly you gain XP over your playthrough meaning it would flatten out the levelling

[lament zinc]

Problem with that; using [Shift] in building cancels the snapping of building pieces.

[tulip pecan]

It would flatten out the leveling a little, true, but it would still have the effect of motivating you to push forward to gain skills because the main point is the difference in biomes.

[arctic wharf]

I get the idea. Most people default to just gaining more experience based on some metric for the players overall progression in the game.

It is an option, but not a very easy option to implement.

While your method might be on the simpler side to implement, it also is a bit too generic as it might lead to some super silly gameplay in itself, and does something I really don't want which is incentavise players to even further stick only within the most progressed biome.

I can see the runs to late game biomes happening just to get some early skyrocketing to high levels hehe

[leaden kindle]

I just don't think skills should be a main motivator more like background gain that makes small things easier over time which helps you combat new challenges etc

[tulip pecan]

Skills aren't the main motivator, but people clearly care about them a lot.

[languid ibex]

I don't think I've heard of anyone that cares about skills and what they can do for you tbh, only people that want more from the system.

[arctic wharf]

To put that idea in the harshest light, I hope you don't like building a base in the meadows and living there for your whole gameplay... going to be doing everything far less efficiently then.

[leaden kindle]

Maybe more dedicated players who get down in the nitty gritty

The only time I remember caring about them very much was when I needed fight fader with a crossbow and had to make a greydwarf farm.
Skills seem fine as they are I don't see a huge benefit to making it a way larger system

[languid ibex]

Yeah I pointed that out earlier in another way as well.. it's just not a comfortable progression.

[tulip pecan]

As someone who builds a base in the meadows and stays in it far too long, I've realized it's a bad habit that's only holding me back 😔

[languid ibex]

Not to say the concept isn't interesting, but in theory it could make playstyles change drastically.

[stone citrus]

As a builder, I just build for scenery

[languid ibex]

Does crafting skill even go up with nocost? 😅

[leaden kindle]

crafting is just from the creating of the thing

[stone citrus]

Haven't played since ashlands release

[languid ibex]

I'm not asking how it works, I'm asking if the nocost command disabled crafting experience gain. Blues would know that.

[stone citrus]

Which means I never played with crafting skill yet

Tbh didn't know it even existed till now

[languid ibex]

Damn I guess I'll never know

[leaden kindle]

I would assume it wouldn't affect it

[stone citrus]

But yes meadows-mountain where it's snowy and has no cold effect is the best biome to build in

[languid ibex]

I would've said ocean because of the low instance count

[arctic wharf]

I too am an enjoyer of a peaceful home and thus default to a base in the meadows. 🤭
Only more recently did I put in the effort to spawn proof some areas in harder biomes for bases.

[languid ibex]

I wish there were a less technical way of saying "Unloading unused assets" in the upper left, it's immersion breaking 😅

[tulip pecan]

Man, when I shared that spreadsheet I fully expected responses like "8x in the Deep North? That's ridiculous" or "Why is Pickaxes 10x in the Ocean?"
Mainly, I wanted to find issues with the values and multipliers themselves, not the whole concept.

[leaden kindle]

I was thinking that but about the crossbow increase in black forest

[languid ibex]

I mean, if it were a perfect fit we wouldn't have much to talk about

[arctic wharf]

I don't tend to debate the raw values since they are always likely to change based on the dev teams opinions and testing.
Thus, it's usually more about the overall idea and big picture here.

[tulip pecan]

Crossbows and bows are somewhat more difficult to use in the Black Forest because of obstructed sightlines, hence the bonus

[languid ibex]

Personally I'd rather experience gain meads that get more powerful when you mix in new biome ingredients, that way it's less controlling of the player's choices.

[leaden kindle]

I think crossbows shouldd have a massive xp buff in general, same with magic. Since you only get access halfway into the mistlands

[tulip pecan]

that's reflected in the chart
Crossbows and Elemental Magic get double XP in Mistlands, Blood Magic gets double XP in Ashlands

[arctic wharf]

Seen those suggestions and they usually get a 👍 from me.
Would still like to see that combined with a bit of a rebalance to how XP required increases ofc.

[leaden kindle]

yeah that's a really good idea

[arctic wharf]

The best part about such a suggestion is that it more softly helps discourage grinding early game as you could just let the meads put in the work to make it easier as you go.

[languid ibex]

Yeah, and it takes a more deliberate approach, where you might be lacking in a skill you don't use often, you can mend the curve with an exp mead while fishing for example.

[tulip pecan]

Interesting idea

[arctic wharf]

Would be the first mead I feel compelled to be chugging all the time, since there is passive skills I would like to see gained faster.
Gotta go fast 🦔

[tulip pecan]

The point of the green highlighted skills is to break up that behavior of sticking only in the most progressed biome.
But also, would you mind going into more detail why you consider that a problem overall in the game? The way I see it, each biome is increasingly more inhospitable than the last, and the later biomes begin incurring a constant cost to survive there. If you're willing and able to pay that cost, more power to you?

[arctic wharf]

Only just now actually looked at that sheet. Seems more complex than I realized hehe

[arctic wharf]

I actually like it less... but just one opinion. Find the random massive bonuses to be very weird.

[tulip pecan]

Again, first draft, looking to refine. They're massive because they're just double the default multiplier for the biome

so later biomes get a bigger number as a result

[fierce ore]

Skills as they are actually is "fine" to me. I could think of some changes I would like, but just to think them I also see the setbacks the changes could create.
As stated, the way they are presented now isn't meant to make so that they reach 100 by the end game. Most games aren't, except when grinding is a "main feature". So, it seems reasonable that they reach a certain tier via "Normal" gameplay and, if you want to, can be grinded.
Making certain scenarios alter the skill gain could create a focus on the grind that could make it seem to be intended and change it to a "meta". Any change that makes one way of playin "better" is a bad change, as it mean less diversity in the end.
Now, that said, there ARE some cases that bogus me. Many skills (combat wise) have they'r bonuses as a nice extra and it's all. Some of them however... bow/crossbow skill affecting the speed to ready next shot makes a big difference for instance. Wich again wouldn't bother me, if it wasn't the fact that crossbow skill "appears" late in the game to a point I always preffer to keep using the bow. Similar happens to magick skills. Since Eitr is a scarce resource when it begins and appear late, I had some friends who though magick to be useless in the game until I convinced them to grind it's levels a bit.
Still, as it is now, for combat skills, if you want that, you can just go and grind it. Sooooo, not that big of a deal, it's a choice, and if you want to, it's kind of easy to do.

Now... non-combat skills... reaching 100 level in fishing would be an achievement I would never be able to reach.

[tulip pecan]

Counterpoint, people are finding the most optimum ways to grind anyway and most of the time they're very unfun methods
If you design things in such a way that the easiest way to gain levels is just to play the game normally... having fun becomes the "meta"

[languid ibex]

It's funny but having fun is already the meta, that's why skills aren't massively beneficial.

Trying to hand hold the players who obsess over wanting a number to be bigger will inevitably change that focus.

[tulip pecan]

The only reason why the skill system exists is to provide a redundant punishment for death. Their ability to serve that function stands in direct proportion to how beneficial they are.
Of course people are going to obsess over it- people hate feeling like things they earned were taken away from them. The more effort put in to earn those things, the stronger the negative response.

[languid ibex]

No the skills system is more broadly meant to personalize/reflect your journey and experiences with your character, and that just includes dying. If what you said were true, skills would just be disabled when death penalties are turned off.

[tulip pecan]

Okay, "only" was hyperbole. It's nice that it serves to personalize your character's journey, but it has significantly more psychological weight in the game experience as a reason to avoid dying.

[languid ibex]

Valheim's description reads that it is a brutal exploration and survival game. If you can't deal with learning a lesson or two about when you should/shouldn't obsess over something, maybe you should just consider utilizing world settings/modifiers to make it less brutal.

[tulip pecan]

???

[languid ibex]

What confused you

[granite geyser]

#suggestions message

moose, reindeer, foxes, or some other mythical creatures.

yes, my favorite mythical creatures...

[random monolith]

lol

[leaden kindle]

I used to think reindeer weren't real because of santa

[rose swan]

Haha the way you say that makes it seem like Santa isn’t real or something

[leaden kindle]

Nah, I've seen him at the royal armouries once or twice

[rose swan]

I’ve never actually seen him myself? But that’s fine, I always manage to get gifts every year

[languid ibex]

Pretty sure Santa flys across the sky with lightning all around him

[tulip pecan]

I am talking game design, about how game mechanics incentivize and disincentivize certain behaviors in players, as well as evoke specific emotional responses, by playing upon their psychology.

I wasn't a fly on the wall in the room when it was made, but it is almost certainly intentional and expected that you should feel bad when you die and lose skill levels. In the context of your reply, there is no lesson to be learned about obsession, since the "obsession" we are discussing is simply a normal and expected response to this intended game design.

Valheim IS described as brutal, but what does "brutal" actually mean? It doesn't mean incredibly unfair, because no one (very few people) would actually play it if it was nearly impossible to make progress and eventually conquer the adversity placed against you. In fact, it seems to mean "Fair, but challenging." "It will seem like the odds are against you, but if you play smart and are resourceful, you will come out on top." When you die in this game, it's usually because you didn't play well, and so you feel bad and are driven to play better/get stronger so you can eventually achieve that feeling of conquering adversity. Part of getting stronger is player-side: getting competent with controls, thinking fast and tactically, learning more about the game elements, etc.; but the other part of it is character-side: getting better equipment, getting better food, getting higher-level skills. All of it part of the same overarching gameplay loop, all of it driven by the same "obsession".

Most people will play Valheim on default settings (trusting the game and its devs), especially when starting out. By the time they realize they have an actual problem with skill level loss (as many do around the mid-late game), they will already have placed many hours of investment into the world. For a new player, there's no way of forseeing that they should have set the death penalty setting to "easy".

Furthermore, the skill system in its current implementation is a flawed system. It should be fixed, not disabled. Of the three ways I noted a character can get stronger in the game, it is the most unfairly designed. Equipment and food scale in efficacy with progression, skills do not.

Equipment takes a significant time and effort investment to acquire, but you always have it until you die. It may take some time and effort to get it back once you die, but you get all your lost equipment back at once (imagine if upgraded equipment went down a level every time you died).

Food functions primarily on a positive feedback loop - the more food you have, the more food you can get. At the lowest point in progression this has to do with stamina and hunting, but later this extends to tamed animals and farming. The time investment stays somewhat consistent as well - a field of 10 onions takes the same time to grow as a field of 100. While it does take a small amount time to plant and harvest crops and feed and butcher animals, it takes zero repeat effort and the rewards speak for themselves. And unless something terrible happens, you will never lose access to those animals or crops once you acquire them.

Skills function logarithmically. The numerical benefit they provide increases in a linear fashion, but the amount of time and focus required to raise them increases exponentially - and so does the time and effort spent focusing you lose when you die. Aside from being rested, there is no way to increase the rate at which you gain skill XP. To focus on raising a skill level, you must invest a significant amount of playtime on doing solely and specifically that - it is not engaging, it is barely rewarding considering the effort, and however much time you spent grinding that skill (and all others) can be sent down the drain instantly if you just get unlucky (BS deaths do happen sometimes).

Finally, what you said comes close to the territory of ""skill issue"" or shaming players for expressing their thoughts and feelings over a specific element of the game. If someone is struggling with something in a game, or even worse, is running up against something that is actually genuinely BS design, the last thing they want to hear is "turn it to easy mode." People have pride, you know? And sometimes frustrations are valid, and even if maybe they aren't, sometimes it feels good to take a break to complain and decompress emotionally before you get back into it. Difficulty settings and modding support do not excuse flawed base-level design.

...
I forget who was in charge of the "long posts today" counter, but you can go ahead and increment that by one...

[languid ibex]

I didn't mean to insult, and I hope I don't come across as rude when I say that it really just seems that you don't like how skills are handled, and game design is a fluid art form. There's no set way to go about something. I can only assume that this is an expectation formed from previous experiences and frustrations that seem prominent. I'm not trying to attack anyone's pride, and would encourage they use that pride as a fuel to take on a task that's unfamiliar, rather than opt out of a challenge. I also agree skills could use some tweaking, but as a whole are functioning very much as intended, so as to highlight the many other systems surrounding improvement that take place within Valheim. Taking too much importance away from Foods/Armors/Forsaken Powers/Weaponry/Meads is a delicate balance, and as a game developer I have nothing but respect for the choices around the minimal improvements behind skills. In my previous message I did not mean to phrase it as if I were speaking to you and you alone, more of a "if you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen" phrasing. I hope it didn't come across too personally.

[tulip pecan]

Ah, no... I didn't take it personally and was hoping I'd adequately communicated that in that section.
Although the long post might have made it seem like otherwise now that I think about it.

You are correct though. Game design like any artform has some objective and many more subjective components, and we live in a world of whims after all.
Yes, I don't like how skills are handled, but in one specific way. At one point a dev said in here "It makes sense if you do something a lot you get better at it" for justifying skills. And I agreed. But a voice in my head also said "But it also makes sense that you get better faster if you do harder things." With all the frustration expressed with the severity of the death skill loss penalty at higher tiers of play I've seen in here over the years (as well as my own experience with it), it seemed like an elegant if indirect solution. There's still a skill penality for death, but you have avenues to regain those lost skills faster AND those avenues incorporate Risk vs. Reward which is one of the basic core tools for game design.

[languid ibex]

Ah alright! Just wasn't exactly sure how I was being perceived and wanted to be sure that was clear. I do ultimately think we both want improvements with the system, but I'll never get behind the sentiment that it was a botched implementation. ZionE has gotten through to me many of the realistic expectations around the skill system, even within the perceivable intended usage, it still falls short in some areas. I would always encourage the approach you take, but you would definitely benefit from some retrospection after hearing opinions from a pool of players who both like/dislike the system. If you get both of those groups to agree that your approach needs work, it's likely a decent indicator that some theory crafting still needs to be done. I hope what I say isn't discouraging in any way, as I know games can only become more well-rounded when members of the community set aside time to really think outside of the box!

[tulip pecan]

Are you addressing me and my proposal to the skill system or the developers of Valheim and how their skill system is currently implemented?

Or a bit of both

[languid ibex]

Yeah a bit of both, generalizing a lot of the points made around the topic today.

[tulip pecan]

lol, do imagine though if tools and armor lost an upgrade level if you died, and you had to spend time re-mining and re-collecting those resources to upgrade them back
No one would defend that game design decision
or if they did:
"Upgraded gear is nice to have but not necessary"
"You aren't meant to have maxxed-out gear, but you can grind for it if you want"
"You can turn it off if you want to play on easy mode"
it's a little apples to pears but i think there's a usable point in there somewhere
Minecraft gets away with tools and armor that break because it's an infinite world full of resources and they're relatively cheap to craft
Enchantments do mess with that a little bit, but you can easily get to 30 XP levels (enough for enchanting) through multiple playstyle options of your preference (mining, fighting, fishing). You can build a grinder, but that's also just as valid a playstyle option because it rewards technical players

[leaden kindle]

I swear there's a modifier for losing skills on death

[tulip pecan]

yeh, in the world settings: the "death penalty" option

you can only access it when you create a world though

[autumn idol]

No, you can go back to the world modfiers screen to change settings anytime you select a world in the login screen

[tulip pecan]

I'm a dingus :(

when did they change that or was it always like that?

[topaz kite]

It was always a thing for as long as I can remember

[tulip pecan]

https://tenor.com/view/emoji-emoji-disintegrating-emoji-disappearing-meme-21st-century-gif-24891417

(still not changing my world settings off default though)

[leaden kindle]

But default resource rate is awful

[languid ibex]

Even as a solo I'm typically overflowing with resources.

[rose swan]

I don’t think it’s awful, but I really enjoy survival games so maybe that’s just me 🤔

[pale oasis]

I like where it is for like 90% of the resources.

[rose swan]

1.5 rate is pretty comfy though for people looking for a more streamlined experience I suppose

[leaden kindle]

I find the default grind for wood and bronze particularly annoying

[languid ibex]

Trolls alone can solve that problem..

I was expecting you to say Black Cores but wood/bronze flows like water if you just lead a troll around.

[leaden kindle]

I'll be damned before I let a troll do the work of a viking

[rose swan]

Sounds like x1.5 would be perfect for you 🤌

[leaden kindle]

I always use 1.5x, sometimes 2x if I want to treat myself

[languid ibex]

Changing the rates of the game itself rather than using a troll to harvest is definitely something.

[leaden kindle]

I just personally dislike playing like that. The game gave me a pick and an axe and I'll use them

[languid ibex]

I mean, you still will need to, but the game also gave you trolls that effect the environment.

[leaden kindle]

🤷‍♂️ game gave me resource modifiers too

[tulip pecan]

I don't mind the rate itself, what I do mind are the... other things
Ingots weighing more than the ore used to make them (at least make it the same, if not less)
3 ingots turning into 1 when you make bronze
the lowest parts of ore blobs sometimes generating below the dig limit, or overlapping burial chambers or troll caves
the generation of swamp crypts - there are some seeds where you'll have 20 in a row and some where you can sail for hours and only find 3

I understand the material/gameplay concession when it comes to the cost of crafting equipment, none of it costs anything to repair when it breaks so that's fine for me
(the silver sword is so stupidly expensive though)

[languid ibex]

Not by default though.

[leaden kindle]

Silver sword uses the same amount as frostner. I think it's fair for the best mountain weapons

[tulip pecan]

I forgot about frostner. still too expensive imo

[leaden kindle]

I dislike the excess use of iron
It's the hardest to get (except flametal) but the most commonly used

[leaden kindle]

Silver is pretty easy to get once you find a decent mountain. 1 boat is all you need for max equipment

[tulip pecan]

That is until everybody in your 4-man band wants a cool ice hammer or shiny sword

[languid ibex]

The harvesting should go 4x faster then

Not to mention trivializing the locating process with 4 people locating it

[tulip pecan]

eh maybe

still it feels strange that those two are so expensive compared to literally every other weapon from every other biome
the only weapon more expensive is Krom

[leaden kindle]

The iron mace is 20 iron

And irons way harder to get. Seems fair imo

Atgier is 30 iron/black metal

[tulip pecan]

the iron sledge is 30 iron but the demolisher is only 20 🤔

[stark furnace]

Could be explained by the black forge being a better tool that would increase yield

[leaden kindle]

I guess they don't expect you to be mining iron that late in the game

I wonder how the eitr goes into the weapon, does it just like infuse

[languid ibex]

I assume there's a degree of melding, there's molten liquid flowing on the Black Forge

[tulip pecan]

Krom takes 30 iron and 20 bronze. Do they expect me to still be mining copper and tin?
I may be pessimistic here but I really don't think the devs put as much thought into the material costs for crafting equipment as the community seems to want to give them credit for.
They feel largely vibes-based, a mashup of "this sounds good", "we need it to use [new biome material]", "why don't we make it take [old biome material] too?", "it's kind of similar to [other equipment], so give it a cost based off that", and "eh, whatever"

Have the crafting recipes for anything ever been adjusted in the history of this game's development? Are we to just assume they got it all right on the first try?

[languid ibex]

First try is kinda reductive, Valheim goes through 3 major testing phases and still undergoes changes after a full public release highlights some issues.

[leaden kindle]

Krom is Midlands, no? I'm pretty sure you can get copper and iron in the midlands

[tulip pecan]

Krom requires bronze which needs tin, but yes you can get copper scrap from mistlands

[languid ibex]

If you never return to materials such as copper/tin, you might never realize just how advanced your tools really have become in that regard, so it's good to turn the players back once and a while.

[leaden kindle]

Yeah that is an issue but I honestly don't think it's that weird. I think bringing back old materials is a fun shake up

Id like them to use silver and black metal more

[languid ibex]

If I recall correctly, I think you can get Bronze from the mountain caves as well

[tulip pecan]

very small amounts of it

[leaden kindle]

Well then I guess they should add tin scrap somewhere and we'd be hunky dory

Or make the swords drop bronze scrap instead of copper

[languid ibex]

I guess I've never saw it as an issue, as my main base is usually well into being set up for harvesting copper/tin, and I enjoy having reasons to use those old pathways/bridges again.

[tulip pecan]

As someone who loves the metroidvania genre with a special passion in my heart, you don't need to impress upon me the importance of revisting old locations
I think it's good that they use old materials. I'm just saying I don't think it's all as thought out as we're giving credit for

[leaden kindle]

I don't think it's that thought out but I still think it's a bit of fun

[languid ibex]

Players typically request more things to make with older materials, and I think there was more of an outcry for this approach during that phase of development.

[edgy kindle]

Yes I agree with this, it feels like all you need from the mountains is maybe 1 vein and you're good for the rest of the game

[tulip pecan]

huh i mined 3 before i considered myself good

[edgy kindle]

I could see myself getting a bit more if i used frostner or mistwalker

[leaden kindle]

I did 3 but it was 1 trip

[languid ibex]

Yeah, what used to be requested was more use for the Bronze metal many players accumulated, but since the game has progressed, more typical requests are more uses for Silver and Black Metal.

I've been on board both of those trains. 😅

[leaden kindle]

They should make a metal that takes 1 bronze, 1 iron, 1 silver, 1 black metal, 1 eitr and 1 flametal
And only gives you 1 bar in return

[tulip pecan]

They did definitely add more uses for copper and bronze, what with the dvergr decorations you can build

The main thing is just making sure common materials people will end up with a lot of have a sink of some kind (i'm not counting obliterator, it genuinely seemed like a joke addition at the time and it made me upset that the devs weren't taking the community seriously)

[edgy kindle]

A mixed metal made of all metals sounds cursed but I think with the stone portal, it would be pretty interesting

[leaden kindle]

Yeah I'd want it to exist just to make an upgrade for the bathtub

[edgy kindle]

Your hot tub is now extra steamy

[languid ibex]

My current want for a sink is Eitr(uses for magic outside of combat), as someone who has enjoyed being a Mage, and still overflowing with Eitr foods.

[leaden kindle]

I always find I'm out of eitr cause I hate going to the midlands to collect it

[languid ibex]

I suggested Magic Tools that have a cooldown auto-cast on certain materials, like a Magic Pickaxe that has a AoE strike when Eitr is greater than 40 for example.

[edgy kindle]

Having some magic that improved aspects of farming or fishing would be really cool, i would greatly enjoy an addition like that

[tulip pecan]

eitr fishing rod

[languid ibex]

#suggestions message

If you want to check it out 🤘

[tulip pecan]

I have downvoted it because I think nice and cool things that only other people will appreciate shouldn't be added to the game 👿
||jk||

[leaden kindle]

I agree I think we should actually reduce inventory slots

[edgy kindle]

Golems should be added to every biome

[leaden kindle]

Make poison last 3x longer than usual

[edgy kindle]

On a serious note though, can we make crystals used for more than like 2 things?

[languid ibex]

Please 🙏

I've seen countless amazing suggestions involving crystal, but not movement on that.

[edgy kindle]

Im really hoping theyre used for stuff in deep north in someway

[leaden kindle]

I feel like some of the stuff added feels a little unintegrated. Crystals, tars, a recent addition that you're not allowed to mention. All feel very on their own as they only add a few things and don't change any of the other recipes they'd fit in with

[rose swan]

I’ve always been surprised that crystal and Eitr don’t have any recipes together 🤔

[leaden kindle]

I liked when they used roots in the arbalest recipe, and troll hide for the ancient bark spear

Imagine like a tar staff, wouldn't that be a bit of fun

[edgy kindle]

I think guck is used even less than crystals

[leaden kindle]

Guck is used in poison arrows and the draugr fang I think

Nope, it's green dye.
So makes the banner, firework, and light source. And draugr fang

[edgy kindle]

Yeah, I belive ooze is used in arrows

[tulip pecan]

ooze and guck feel redundant as resources

[leaden kindle]

Ooze is for food mostly

[edgy kindle]

Oozebombs are incredibly useful at least

[leaden kindle]

What about intestines, the draugr drop

1 use

[tulip pecan]

sausages are amazing though

[edgy kindle]

It would be nice if you could make a fertilizer or something with intestines to have crops grow faster

[tulip pecan]

or craft fishing bait

[leaden kindle]

Yeah but you stop eating sausages halfway through the mountains.

It's weird that sausages are the better version of blood pudding but are way easier to craft

[tulip pecan]

that's so you can eat them both to get really high health

same with minced meat sauce and deer stew

[leaden kindle]

Yeah but then you'd have like 0 stam

[edgy kindle]

I use sausages as comfort food mostly when doing work around base, but the addition of feasts kinda overshadows in that department. Doesn't help that sausages are a common drop in mines either

[leaden kindle]

Oh yeah lol why is that. What a weird choice of food to put there

[tulip pecan]

dwarves love sausages

[tulip pecan]

turnip stew

[tulip pecan]

oh btw did you mean black soup
blood pudding is plains

[edgy kindle]

I wish ticks dropped blood bags along with clots

Its not necessary at all but it confuses me that they don't

[leaden kindle]

Oh yeah I guess I just looked at the icon and assumed it was real life black pudding

[leaden kindle]

Oh god I hate clots. Maybe the grossest name and icon combo ever

[rose swan]

#suggestions message some of those example seem a bit exaggerated, but I like the idea as a concept. Might be something cool to address after 1.0.

[stark furnace]

I really like the 1star boar art

Even tho it's AI, it's a good concept

[leaden kindle]

I like how the boars and deer work. Maybe adding armour to draugr and skeletons

[autumn idol]

Adding armor to humanoid enemies does sound like a good way to distinguish starred enemies

[rose swan]

That, and maybe some visual weapon upgrades.

[stark furnace]

If anything I do hope they audit the charred star looks

[autumn idol]

The Fuling Berserkers have a chance to be wearing armor already so it’d make sense IMO to change so that armor appears only the starred ones

[leaden kindle]

Oh and the surtlings, they look really good with stars

[stark furnace]

yea that's a good example of starred creatures done right imo

[rose swan]

Then there’s the starred Morgen 😂

[pale drum]

Starred fall damage when

[leaden kindle]

Those exist?

No wonder I've never noticed one

I'm not even sure what morgens are supposed to be no idea how you'd differentiate different stars

[stark furnace]

morgens are this horrifying combination of flesh and bone

[leaden kindle]

Kind of like a human

[rose swan]

Yeah Morgens are weird. Not my favorite monster lol

[leaden kindle]

I think they're fun, I like how insanely fast they are

And they're way more fun to fight than the stupid charred

[eternal storm]

A little late to the party but I just realized there's one thing that will never allow players to really consider skills as a secondary award that is not meant to be central to the experience: you're constantly reminded the system exist and matters by the ping you hear after reaching a new level and the relative message.

Especially in early game, and especially for a new player that hears and sees that all the time, the game emphasizes leveling almost as much as finding new materials or unlocking new recipes.
How could that possibly not advertise skills as important?

[eternal wyvern]

I agree, I think the concept is good and is present in some creatures in the game like the boar and the deer. I think all creatures that are just a re-color should have some subtle change or an addition that conveys that they are more difficult.

[languid ibex]

An introduction to skills is what's important tbh, telling the player that they're important to focus on would typically come in the form of damage amounts jumping or stamina usage lowering massively. Usually some type of situation where, oh you're not able to do more than 1 damage to this enemy because you're not trained in this skill. Not unlike the "Too Hard" text that pops up when trying to chop down trees would indicate you have to find new materials.

[tulip pecan]

Do we want to tell the player they're important? That seems antithetical to most of the discussion points raised here so far

[languid ibex]

I'm saying there's nothing communicating that in-game.

I don't think there's even direct stats showing the benefits you're gaining displayed anywhere.

There is however, plenty communicating the need to advance your gear, utilize meads and discover your enemy's weaknesses.

[tulip pecan]

I prefer the concept art design a bit more than what we got

What does the game tell you about meads?

[languid ibex]

Freezing to death, being poisoned ruthlessly while surrounded by ingredients for poison resistance mead.

Plenty of dots to connect laid out around the player.

[tulip pecan]

None of that matters if you don't know to build a mead ketil or a fermenter

[languid ibex]

It unlocks extremely early, no player should miss that.

You don't even need to smelt bronze to unlock that recipe.

So you can have a mead ketill before ever entering a Black Forest dungeon.

[stiff stag]

It's also a recipe popup that indicates it must be important, just like skills. Would be a shame if you missed it when it's displayed so prominently when it's unlocked.

[tulip pecan]

You know, you'd be surprised at the capacity humans have for tunnel vision

[languid ibex]

I'm just saying, players will have everything at hand to know how to build it, and playing a survival game without much curiosity for what you're achieving is odd to say the least.

But, even if you do miss it, problems like Bonemass will prompt the question, 'am I missing something?'

If you manage to skip that problem, freezing to death in the Mountains will inevitably raise that question without fail.

[tulip pecan]

That's what I said! #suggestion-discussion message
Someone said that adding a couple worse food recipes to plains that don't require flour or baking would cause players to miss out on the stone oven. So I reused their argument here to see how it would hold water.

[languid ibex]

Yeah that's a strange stance to take for sure.

Though I will say, necessity is the mother of invention, and if some players are just plain skilled enough to get by with a lesser option, that's not the worst thing that could happen anyways.

There are just cases that I'm referring to where it's necessary and intentionally walling the player out. Axe upgrades needed for harder wood, frost resistance mead needed to navigate the mountain, armor ratings needed to survive encounters in harder biomes are all pretty solid examples.

[tulip pecan]

Who needs frost resistance mead? I have 10,000 campfires

...is legit what two of the friends i was playing with did

[languid ibex]

That strategy falls apart fairly quickly if you're met with enough enemies.

[tulip pecan]

yeah they died a lot

Never underestimate human perseverence... or stubborness.

[languid ibex]

Oh I'm not, but there's definitely indicators built-in.

There's plenty of ways around these problems, but the intention is made very clear.

Where skills just doesn't have this happening, anywhere at all.

You could easily indicate that a skill isn't leveled up enough to complete a task or damage an enemy, and saying that skills popping up when leveled is an indicator of it's importance alone is flimsy reasoning at best. Existing isn't indicative of importance.

You can gather how important a troll cave is on a first encounter, because "it's not that deep." 😅

[tulip pecan]

The constant reminder that skills exist does kind of cause an importance or weight to be assigned to it in the mind of the player just by sheer repetition though.

[languid ibex]

That'd take a level of assumption that I just can't comprehend personally. Taking it further than, 'I am getting better at this' without any indicator as to how is a bit silly. Leveling quickly at level 0 in an RPG is par for the course.

[tulip pecan]

Not all minds process information the same. I will say I'm talking less about a conscious assumption and more of an unconscious connection, like a bias.

[languid ibex]

In that case I would celebrate Valheim, taking a unique approach and eliminating biases. That can often make for a much more sunk in learning experience anyways.

'Oh it's not doing what I expected, huh neat.' etc.

[tulip pecan]

Eh, it doesn't quite work like that.

[languid ibex]

Doing things differently definitely sets you apart.

[tulip pecan]

I meant the eliminating biases part

[languid ibex]

Well a bias is just that, you're either going to recognize it's a bias, or entrench yourself in wishing it were the way you expect/want.

[tulip pecan]

Since it's an unconscious or subconscious thing, the mismatched expectations don't come out as conscious realizations like you described, rather unexplained feelings of confusion or frustration. Which some might be able to observe surrounding this topic (the skill system) in this server.

[languid ibex]

I'm not sure why it'd ever be unconscious to the degree you're describing though, learning how things work is just human nature.

[tulip pecan]

We have a whole underwater iceberg of hidden machinery powering how we learn how things work. It's one of the things I'm actually fairly knowledgeable on

[languid ibex]

Right, but it's not that complicated.

[autumn idol]

I think the issue is that Valheim doesn't exist in a vacuum. People who play Valheim are likely the kind of people who've played other video games before and have probably run into skill systems. So, they'll naturally expect skills to be similarly important in this game and feel worse about losing them than they should be.

I've played long enough that I'm ok with the skill system as it is, but I totally get why it's implementation in Valheim would throw off players

[languid ibex]

Right, there's a level of expectation that becomes frustrating, and leaves little room for understanding a different/unique take.

That'd be the fault of the player though, it's not up to the developers to hand hold these players because they expected more of the same.

[autumn idol]

Yeah, to be clear I'm all down for Valheim trying new things. I just get where players are coming from when they express frustration over this since I remember feeling that way myself when I first started

[languid ibex]

Yeah, I can definitely understand it, I just will never empathize too deeply with something that's clearly unimportant when you take a decent look at it.

[tulip pecan]

Unimportant compared to what?

[languid ibex]

Gear/Meads/Armor/Killing Forsaken

[tulip pecan]

So in the context of progressing through the game?

[languid ibex]

Is there any other context to be applied?

[tulip pecan]

Well yes. It's a game and like any artform experience is subjective. Some people play Valheim primarily to build a cottage, farm and fish. What is important to them is different.

...shoot I was going somewhere with that and then I forgot 😭

[languid ibex]

All of these things still require progression.

[tulip pecan]

Stranded At Sea has been typing for a while and I'm getting nervous

[languid ibex]

Skills don't elevate in level of importance because someone is sitting around with their hammer and stone axe for their entire playthrough.

The hammer and axe are still more important.

[stiff stag]

Hello.

[tulip pecan]

I'm gonna have to get back to you on this because I for the life of me cannot figure out what I was gonna say in response. I think I finally used up the last of my brain juice for today after that long reply earlier.

[arctic wharf]

Just wanted to clarify, I don't think it is botched. Just very minimal in it's implementation and has not been fine tuned much either since the beginning. I simply feel it's a system that could greatly benefit the overall experience to see some of that TLC. 🙂

Tighten up it's short comings to help it aid the overall experience in an even more positive way.

Have agreed it is great in the beginning (pre-mountains or plains), but it falls off in the mid game and sadly incentivizes some of the worst possible gameplay (for anyone who feels the desire to care, which is surprisingly quite a few).

[pale oasis]

#suggestions message Why move iron to mountains?

[topaz kite]

With bronze being available for boats, i feel like it makes more sense for a coastal biome after the Black Forest, hence swamps

[granite geyser]

and being able to use silver for swamp enemies pretty much removes almost all danger to swamps

[sick breach]

Not to mention finding silver in mountains and iron in swamps makes sense. I do feel it's slightly missed opportunity that you get all these silver weapons AFTER you're done fighting the undead.

[granite geyser]

as if there weren't undead later

[sick breach]

Much later, after you're not using silver.

[granite geyser]

and that's called progression. If you have the means to very easily get rid of the enemies that come right after pretty much invalidates the entire biome

[sick breach]

But i suppose there's all the trips to get supplemental iron.

[granite geyser]

people using frostner and especially mistwalker very strongly disagree

even silver sword

[sick breach]

People tend to have upgraded by Ashlands, no?

[mellow crater]

Silver sword is better than Mistwalker in ashlands

[granite geyser]

and mistwalker remains relevant in ashlands despite being one biome earlier

frostner can still be brought to ashlands despite being THREE biomes earlier

[mellow crater]

Forgot to specify Mistwalker is better than Nidogg in Ashlands

[sick breach]

Interesting, didnt know that.

[stiff stag]

#suggestions message the game isn't and shouldn't be balanced around anything other than the default difficulty. Can't really balance out higher difficulties without it having an unwanted impact on the default difficulty.

[peak bronze]

Against Charred, yes. Others, not so much.

All mobs aren't weak against spirit and asksvin are immune to it.

[pale oasis]

Valheim is not strictly linear though. Just because you defeat Bonemass doesn't mean you'll never be back in the swamp. But progression means that when you go back, you'll be much stronger and the enemies will be no problem. But yeah, there will be other opportunities to use silver on undead.