suggestion-discussion

[short wing]

If he gets hit being important here, dodge roll stab, get on a rock then jump down stab then back on the rock again.
Let him test it out and see if he can make it work.

[unkempt raven]

I honestly don't think "I don't want to use this playstyle" is a good argument for changing a set when a lot of people do enjoy that playstyle.
Variety in viable playstyles isa good thing, and everyone doesn't have to enjoy all the playstyles for them to be worth having in the game.

[winter cobalt]

I think it's bad for any play style.

[unkempt raven]

I reckon all the people who love it disagrees.

[short wing]

Again that is like your opinion, a bunch of people (like myself) like the set and the playstyle it enables.

[winter cobalt]

No shit I loved the iron set but I'm not going to continue using it

[fluid goblet]

then why do you feel the need to continue using the fenris set?

[winter cobalt]

I'm using the wolf armour set

[fluid goblet]

if you loved the iron set and at some point it became not optimal, you can expect the same from other sets such as fenris or the wolf set you're using

[winter cobalt]

My friend is using the swamp set because he likes the bow bonus

[fluid goblet]

well and I'm using fenris set, level 4, with a silver dagger

I like the speed bonus

[winter cobalt]

Actually I was going to get him the fenris set except the bow level part

[fluid goblet]

I think today I'll beat Yagluth since I just found a nearby Mistlands and I want to explore it

just planted 70 barley too

[winter cobalt]

Don't need to spoil further things here.

I already know this but others might not.

[fluid goblet]

anyone suggesting new features to the game should have already played the game fully in my opinion

to avoid suggesting things already present in the game

[winter cobalt]

That's not a suggestion or a discussion

I think though after black forest the general idea of the game should be obvious so even a biome I haven't played I already know what to expect.

There's going to be materials for food, clothing maybe cosmetic too, an item for the boss summoning and so on. It's pretty predictable

[fluid goblet]

was telling you how far I was into the game to show you how well my fenris set is doing in my playthrough

[fluid goblet]

it doesn't need to be, and as I said, people should be prepared for spoilers in this channel because it is expected of them to know the game entirely before suggesting new stuff

[fluid goblet]

@solemn jungle far enough meadows can have draugr villages, and I love it! would love more examples of that

[viscid locust]

random question, but is it possible for the current version of unity engine to support cave-shaping by players? I mean, current terrain-shaping possibilities are pretty cool, but it would be sooo much cooler should there be a possibility to build shallow tunnels (ofc above water level) right beneath one's stone-themed village or castle. I know one can do so as well by digging trenches and placing slabs above them, but the vibe just ain't the same 😦

[viscid crater]

It's probably very harsh on performance and balance

[short wing]

If it is possible it will probably not make it into the game because they'll have to rewrite how the world works.

[fluid goblet]

and they also don't want it to feel too dwarfy

caves and tunnels are for dvergrs

[short wing]

We wanna diggy diggy hole though.

[fluid goblet]

yeah it'd be cool

hard to implement raids that way tho, same as building inside dungeons

[short wing]

Indeed.

[granite geyser]

More POIs that just involve an area where you can find different things in the form of existing assets does sound very valheim-ish.

In both simplicity and sense of adventure

[wanton atlas]

You are a viking. Not a dwarf

And that way of playing is basicly breaking the entire game logic 😅

[ocean nest]

Consumable Sharpening Stone that we can carry with us to repair our weapon on the field would be nice. Using portal back to base every time to repair kinda kills the immersion. Also good for "no portal" games.
Consumable - yes. To sharp your sword and get a little bonus damage.
Field Repair - no. To repair deformed metal weapon you need forge (heat, fix, cool), not just sharpen it

Just thinking. Do you like blue carpets? Troll hides have so little uses after black forest

[mortal lichen]

Troll carpets has been suggested more times than "ashlands when" has been asked

[kindred path]

not fully repair but up to a point. let's say first time using it it will repair it to 50%, second time 25% and can't repair third time with sharpening stone

[short wing]

The sharpening stone has x amount of uses till you need to make a new one or repair it.

[kindred path]

that too

5 uses it disappears

[granite geyser]

@viscid locust new biomes will probably not gonna happen

The ones present are the ones we will ever get

[ocean nest]

Understandable. Devs didnt add because troll hide too cold to be a carpet. Maybe. But something else... Troll hide roof, wood shield upgrade

[hushed valley]

Or even troll hide umbrella-hats. Only the coolest Vikings wore those.

[ocean nest]

@kindred path https://valheim.fandom.com/wiki/Sign
how to color text without mods, the whole sign can be painted too

[kindred path]

bruh

[kindred path]

it removes the </color> after closing it with >

and doesn't copy as whole

[ocean nest]

https://youtu.be/AqgxjgclsFk?t=47

[kindred path]

apperently it's only <color=red> without the second line. and there are limited amount of colors I believe

[mortal lichen]

Nah, you can use hex for literally any color

[sterile frost]

You don't have to close tags, for example you can just copy and paste this: <size=50><color=#FF008845><rotate=-15>🦋
and it'll work fine
If you want to change the color again, just add another color tag, like: <size=50><color=#FF008845><rotate=-15>🦋<color=red>buttfly

Just keep in mind there's a max character limit so use as few tags as possible

[mortal lichen]

Try this <#8db2fc>🍇<#bcf7ad>🍏<#eb6c76>🍓

[sterile frost]

oh you can just omit the color

[mortal lichen]

mhm!

[mortal lichen]

See what I mean, hasn't even been two hours 😄

[unkempt raven]

The highlands suggestion reminded me of probably the best made suggestion ever, which was an elaborate highlands biome suggestion, very well made and made to suit the spirit of the game. Alas, it is lost in the past (and for obvious reason won't make it to the game).

As for the stars-as-guidance suggestion, iirc someone charted the movement of stars and unless I remember wrong it does a full rotation every several days or something. Time and star position for navigation, sounds familiar... :p

[pure patio]

I know you already got your answer, but it isn't the Unity engine that's the limitation. It's the way that the terrain is generated and represented in the game, and without basically redoing EVERYTHING to do with terrain (buildings, trees, everything) it would be impossible to use the current technique to make caves.

[unkempt raven]

To elaborate further - the ground is just a level that can be stretched up and down, it has no depth.

[rose swan]

Dang, I would really like to see that. Purely for fun and not a real suggestion, I also have an entire biome that I’ve been throwing ideas with, and I would’ve loved to see a huge fleshed out idea for a biome.

[unkempt raven]

It was really well made.

[sterile frost]

@sour forge Delete your suggestion, we've already got troll hide curtains at home: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1085160078878986282/1219666683866906624/trollcurtains.jpg

[rose swan]

That was absolutely NOT what I was expecting 😂

[drowsy heron]

More use for troll hide would be amazing, imagine troll rugs with their head like those bear rugs, or banners from it

[solemn jungle]

you mean like much larger villages?

like a small town?

[fluid goblet]

like the ones we have in the game

[granite geyser]

Probably the one I'm thinking about. Still one of my favourites.

Too bad it still belongs to the "nope" list basically

[mortal lichen]

Another day, another craft from chests.

[unkempt raven]

Just put your chests near your crafting stations.

One of the first things I learned was to have a chest near my workbench with comnon crafting materials in it.

Near as in I can reach it from where I'm standing.

[granite geyser]

Are you really expecting them to overcome obstacles rather than ask the devs to do everything for them?

Such audacity...

[pure patio]

I recently learned how to make transparent signs for my storage so I know what's in the chests by directly labeling them but they don't block access. It's super keen.

[icy quarry]

Most all things I put in a dedicated storage area but I am known to haphazardly store metalurgical components atop my forge out of laziness...

"Surely these won't despawn haha"

[mortal lichen]

Oh I 100% throw ores next to the smelters

[pure patio]

I still make chests because I'm a bit OCD like that, and prefer to not have loose crap that I accidentally grab when running by

[silk halo]

picking up stuff i already threw out really bugs me for some reason, i either do it while i'm out away from the base so i know i won't come across it again randomly or it gets put in storage

[pure patio]

@finite acorn if you or your buddy carry portal materials with, you just have to survive and make a portal they can return with. In-place reviving doesn't really make sense with the lore, not to mention the devs explicitly don't want to give any significant, explicit advantages to multiplayer over single player if they can help it.

[granite geyser]

Build a camp nearby with beds you can respawn at. Done

[pure patio]

That too... I usually do the portal thing to because I hate respawning with no food available, having to get to my grave with no health or stamina in order to eat something.

[granite geyser]

I said that as a general answer in case someone tells me "But mah no portal run bud".

Camp with beds nearby works in any difficulty and game mode

[pure patio]

"But mah hardcore run!" actually, you still reappear in the bed, don't you?

[wintry bobcat]

Yea

[hexed jewel]

I also have to put everything in a chest even when I know for CERTAIN it's near enough to a player base object that it SHOULDN'T despawn, because I just cannot get over the nagging fear of "but what if it does despawn though?"

[warm spade]

I have a garbage pit that I dump things in and will occassionally hop in it to organize/sort the things properly

[stiff stag]

The worst thing that can happen is either the items don't get saved properly (for instance if you exit the game too soon or abruptly after dumping the items), or the base object they are near gets destroyed, allowing them to despawn.

[granite geyser]

And you lose everything. It's essentially the same as a new character except you don't actually have to create it again

[hexed jewel]

@stiff stag yes. i'll say this for the current state of the game, while is this is my single greatest fear (losing a bunch of stuff/progress through no fault of my own and no warning/ability to prevent), I can only recall a single time (in an embarrassing amount of hours, like 1000+) that it's happened to me where it looked like I'd saved and I logged out, but when I logged in I very clearly had NOT saved and lost a decent amount of progress.

[pure patio]

Brand new character at the lean-to in the Mountains you built... 😛

[hexed jewel]

so good job overall devs--for an "early access" game, I've ran into STRIKINGLY few bugs, and even less so any especially catastrophic ones

[hexed jewel]

why you sorting the garbage? just to make sure you didn't accidentally toss in anything you wanna keep?

[warm spade]

I try to keep a lot of things but sorting something like seeds is a pain in the ass because you constantly pick them up. So into the hole they go until I'm ready to kill time sorting things.

[pure patio]

Garbage pit? Make a chest, and once you find Haldor you can constructively dispose of your garbage 😉

[warm spade]

I think he's avoiding me because I can't find him in my current playthrough

[hexed jewel]

OHHH i gotcha--like a TEMPORARY dump pit lol

[warm spade]

Precisely

"To sort later"

[pure patio]

I still avoid that because it can tank performance, the more things the game has to draw the slower it can go

[warm spade]

It's never been an issue for me but it's been an issue for other people I've played with

[pure patio]

Yeah. Depends a lot on your hardware with handling instances. Better CPU+memory bandwidth gives you a lot more performance overhead.

[unkempt raven]

Properly archived under M for miscellaneous.

[rose swan]

I think if there were to be boss drops, it should be 1 guaranteed item from a pool of items, similar to how Terraria does it. However, I don’t think it would fit for the game too well 🙂

[amber wind]

Don't they already drop items that unlock progress? Why do they need to drop more items?

[rose swan]

I think especially since the bosses are basically linear/essential, it would be odd for them to drop gear.

[prime needle]

yeah thats fair. terraria is my favorite game of all time. a pool of items would be legit as well- i just want some incentive to fight a boss more than once

[amber wind]

Have you tried playing in Hardcore mode? 🙂

[prime needle]

no i havent

[amber wind]

When you die and permanently lose that item the boss gave you, then you need to go fight the boss again.

[pure patio]

You can hang their trophies on the wall, and they will talk to you 😉 There's at least 2 kills there.

[amber wind]

Or more if you want to put more than one head in various bases...

[prime needle]

thats an interesting mechanic- personally i would rather fight them for a reward rather than be forced to as a punishment

[rose swan]

Can confirm, Moder’s head looks amazing as a decoration piece!

[amber wind]

You call it punishment...I call it fun. 😉

[prime needle]

thats cool pita i didnt know that

[pure patio]

Fish are great to hang on the wall for the same reason

[amber wind]

I was playing in my no portal, no map, hardcore death penalty world after just after defeating Eikthry and unlocking a the pickaxe. Trying to tame a wolf...got obliterated, lost every single bronze item and my antler pickaxe. Most people would probably rage quit or console back in all their items. Me I was like "OH BOY! Time to fight Eikthyr again! Can't wait!"

[wintry bobcat]

Heh started a similar world recently but also with Very Hard with a few friends and we killed eikthyr like 15 times to be stocked up on antler pickaxes as we ventured away from spawn

[arctic wharf]

I think boss drops past just the next key item to move forward + the trophy would be too much and out of line for the Valhiem experience.
If you want more reason to repeat kill bosses, despite them posing no challenge once you have over-geared, it would be best kept to cosmetic additions.

Example being, perhaps there is a few building pieces that give resemblance to the boss and uses their trophy as a crafting materiel. Statues, beam end pieces, banners, and so on.

I don't think repeat killing bosses is any fun though, hardly even just for a spare trophy to hang up on your wall. Extra Moder tears look awesome for example and would be great on item stands, but even then the act of repeat killing Moder is not an exciting one.

I would far prefer more unique side content, such as the new extra dungeons/bosses, than tying new loot to the old bosses. This side content can be more spead out around the world and become available in later tiers of progression to incentivize exploring even the old biomes. There is just so many more positives to this 🤣

[amber wind]

Oooh, that's a smart strategy. I never think of making backup sets...I'm still learning.

[wintry bobcat]

I’ve managed to stay alive for a while now and even got a skill to lvl 100, but I am so terrified of dying

[amber wind]

Yeah, I'd love to be able to use the boss trophy to unlock like an UBER boss fight...like maybe a starred boss, and then use the starred boss trophy to unlock a 2 star boss fight.

They don't need to drop anything speical...just bragging rights.

[granite geyser]

But that wouldn't solve that "issue" anyway...

Once you get all the weapons, where would be the incentive to fight them again?

[hot willow]

I'd like some more incentive to refight the bosses. I mean, I'll still do it anyway for fun and the extra keys or whatever are kinda cool to place for a glow effect

[granite geyser]

Their heads as decoration.

Especially eikthyr and moder and maybe yagluth

When it comes to decoration, you kill the as many times as you want, so the incentive is there already

But even if they gave you weapons, what happens once you get them all?

You only postpone the "issue", it never solved it

[prime needle]

youre right homie its not an “issue” Its just something extra that would be a fun unique reward that is more interactive than a decoration. I think doggs example of how terraria expands on boss fights is more what i was thinking.

its optional- if you dont want to fight them again for a unique- although unnecessary reward you don’t have to. I dont think giving players options is a bad thing, you know.

[mortal lichen]

But it won't be optional if they drop a unique weapon, people would be forced to fight them over and over again.

[prime needle]

@mortal lichen if they want the weapon, yeah. im a bit confused by what you’re saying

[mortal lichen]

Yes, I'm saying adding a unique low percent boss drop is a bad idea because it will force people to grind the bosses constantly. Wouldn't really be optional, and if they're not that great in stats, then they would have no reason to drop anyway.

[hot willow]

Instead of making bow worse, why not make other weapons better? Like less stamina use and faster attack speed would be neat.

[prime needle]

ah i understand. perhaps 10% is too low. 25%-33% may be more appropriate?

i mean ultimately its up to the devs of course. they would decide the level of grind comparable to the quality of weapon.

[granite geyser]

@pure patio man what an idea how didn't I think of it

||||

[granite geyser]

What I said would still be present.

Once you get all the weapons, what now? You have no incentive to fight and kill them again bc what's the point of having more copies of the same weapon?

[pure patio]

At current balance weapons are already very powerful and balanced. Bows are the outliers, hence the suggestion

[prime needle]

the same could be said for anything? whats the point of fighting bonemass if you can still find silver.

my point is that instead of fighting each boss once for the “key” to the next biome, you could fight each one 4-5 times for a reason other than “its fun”

[granite geyser]

You can't find silver without wishbone...

"You can bc there's the sledgehammer tri-"

Which is actually an exploit and not the intended way of progressing. And finding an exposed silver vein depends completely on RNG so not like it's a good option either

And again, you can fight them 100 times more if you want but the case is still the same: You will lose the incentive to fight them again bc there would be no reason to get those weapons again

You are literally postponing the same thing you try to solve, meaning it's not completely solved

[hot willow]

You can portal into sunken crypts without a key too 🙃

[unkempt raven]

Exploiting a glitch is not intended gameplay, though.

[prime needle]

haha do you not see my point though?

i get where youre coming from, but theres also a point where after you’ve fought a boss so many times its like “ugh i don’t feel like fighting this dude again”
so i feel like theres an appropriate balance between fighting them enough times that its fun (and you get a reward) but not too many times that its just annoying.

[stone citrus]

Make it 1% so it isn't something to grind and more like a
"Oh what is this?"

[unkempt raven]

having to re-kill bosses make no sense from a lore perspective. You've defeated them, so you move on to the next one.

[ashen tinsel]

@wintry bobcat Sometimes I want to throw an extravagant amount of arrows downwind though, spam is half the fun and I darn well earned it. How about a projectile speed buff so half-charged arrows still make it more than 3 meters instead of going rapidfire sniper rifle?

[stone citrus]

Lil secret that you don't chase after

[unkempt raven]

The number of times you should have to kill a boss is exactly one, because then you have defeated it and achieved your purpose in that bit of Valheim.

[prime needle]

haha honestly not opposed

[stone citrus]

Do you have their trophies in your base? Be honest :>

I've seen a LOT of people who did that

Me included of course

[unkempt raven]

Wanting to use trophies as decoration is not relevant for gameplay progress.

Also no, I don't really like any of them except maybe Moder.

[stone citrus]

Oh is that what it is?
I oppose it too
No grinding bosses to unlock
Kinda maniacal

[prime needle]

these are optional weapons, not necessary for progression

[stone citrus]

Yeah I read like random weapons

[ashen tinsel]

To contribute to the boss drop thing going on, at current I'm totally fine without random drops. Like, they already already drop 2 coal and thats more than enough motivation for me to do something fun.

[unkempt raven]

If they're better than the crafted ones they become meta and that is something the game is actively trying to avoid. If they're worse than the crafted ones they're pointless.

having weapons drop doesn't suit the spirit of the game in any case, I think.
Yu gather materials and make stuff, you don't get random gear from killing things,

[stone citrus]

It would be very nice if bosses had a very low chance of dropping a treat
Like shiny Pokemon

Not necessary but hey, I have it

[prime needle]

they would be comparable to the bosses biome

so not overpowered, not pointless

[stone citrus]

Suggest it again a few weeks before deepnorth
Then there will be a mod for it

[amber wind]

If you want a fun reason to kill the boss over and over again, how about "for the fun of it"? Does there need to be another reason?

[stone citrus]

Yes

[unkempt raven]

There's mod for dropped weapons and armour and stuff already (and that's where it'll stay as it's been clearly stated "won't happen" by the devs).

[stiff stag]

Also, since when is grinding and relying on rng ever fun anyway?

[mortal lichen]

I like you better when you're napping in general chat

[arctic wharf]

I could agree with culling the extra damage from the levels yeah. A lot of weapons have far too much variation in damage due to skill levels and how it varries from player to player. It would be far better to balance their damage output right from the beginning if we did not have to also account for the possible variation coming from the levels.

[stone citrus]

Monster hunter is an incredible game

Rng and grind is fun

Even looking for a weapon in souls games :>

[silk halo]

bow already got nerfed, absolutely not xD

[silk halo]

"bro just fought this boss for the 23456rd time and still no drop 😩 "

[amber wind]

"just console it in"

I agree, RNG is fun...especially when you pay for the chance...so I'm in favor of this, but you have to pay 50 cents to Iron Gate every time you summon the boss for a chance for that one item to drop.

[arctic wharf]

I would hope the bow is rebalanced damage wise if this scaling was removed from the level perks. Could just be a more healthy and intentional number right from the start.

Aka, this means I would hope the damage is a littler higher from the beginning but less so near the end game when you might have gotten your bow skill really high.

[pure patio]

The thing is with the bow (and especially the arrows) is that the damage starts out as "pretty ok" and scales to "insane"

[amber wind]

Do people feel the bow is overpowered, underpowered, or well balanced right now?

[arctic wharf]

It's just alright, until as mentioned bow skill gets high and the damage is huge

https://tenor.com/view/damage-thats-a-lot-of-damage-jon-tron-gif-13054497

[amber wind]

I guess...I'm not that far into the game, but I often feel like the bow takes too long, so I end up brandishing a melee weapon and jumping in. But I may not have enough experience to really weigh in on this yet.

Although it is really satisfying to open with a stealth attack with the bow to the sensitive part of the mob and see it take a big chunk of health before charging in.

But most hits feel like they are 'death by 1000 cuts' unless you are attacking something like 2 biomes back.

[silk halo]

it becomes very good at high level, and because lots of players organically do this it gets more attention than other weapons, it did used to verge on the ridiculous with it being like a machine gun at 100, but they already nerfed it and it's been much better since

[amber wind]

Easy...more severe penalties to skill levels! 10% per death!

[viscid crater]

Bow skill takes a lot of investment and resource management to get properly good. Idc if it's overpowered compared to everything else. I prefer the arbalest anyway

[dawn mauve]

#suggestions message This and more. We need more sinks for troll hides. Decorative uses would be perfect!

Mid-late game we get to the point of discarding most troll drops because there is no use for them once we're past troll armor.

[amber wind]

I feel like troll hides make great decorations at the bottom of the ocean.

We had an entire chest filled with troll hides. I ended up tossing them all. They really do tend to pile up with no use.

How about an NPC hunter that uses them as a currency of some kind? Then you can trade them in for consumables or something?

Make them as fuel for a bonfire? A trollfire?

[viscid crater]

Give them a better conversion ratio in the Obliterator. Giant chunks of thick hide should have better yields than blobs of resin etc

[amber wind]

Stuffed troll effigy that acts like a target dummy?

[viscid crater]

Before i put it in suggestions, have fist weapons pre-fenris rippers been suggested to death?

[amber wind]

Yes...but put it as a suggestion anyways. 🙂

Explosive boars...you release them, they run towards an enemy and KABOOM!

Even better, make them always "friendly fire" enabled so when you see your friend release one and it starts running towards you and the mobs you GTFO!

[finite vapor]

still waiting for unhealthy skill system to get revamped :/
Bows have 2.5 seconds of draw time at skill 0. The maximum fire rate of 0.8 seconds is reached at skill 85 (capped by the firing animation) which reduces the duration by 68% (3.1x attack speed). The max skill increases DPS by +623% (7.23x) due to increased damage and reduced draw time. The max skill decreases stamina usage by 83% due to reduced stamina cost and reduced draw time (half drain while fully drawn).

[viscid crater]

Hello henrik i like your stuff

[finite vapor]

Hi thank you friend

[granite geyser]

Not even eikthyr?

[finite vapor]

Golem trophies are super cool 😤

I'll buy them 1000 coins each if you don't want them!

[untold urchin]

Free coal if ya chuck it in the obliterator.

[dawn mauve]

Actually this is a good idea. Target dummies for leveling up weapons skills that require troll hide and trophies

[viscid crater]

That'll have people farming everything up to 100 asap

[dawn mauve]

Give them a set damage tolerance, after which they are destroyed and no mats can be recovered

[viscid crater]

Maybe that could work. But if it's not infinite, I'd rather go farm greydwarf nests or bone/corpse piles

[amber wind]

Does attacking a piece of base level up weapon skills? If yes, then I'm okay with this, but I was thinking they wouldn't have that much health to begin with.

[pure patio]

Nope. Only creatures. Used to be able to attack a rock to level up skills, but they stopped that 😉 Good news is that skills are useful but not necessary, and it's very rarely useful to specifically train them. They'll grow organically as you use them.

[amber wind]

Yeah, so then no weapon skilling on the target dummy. It's purely just a distraction for mobs.

[eternal storm]

Aren't boss fights one of the best ways to improve your combat skills, test new gear, and get better at playing? I get you can "farm" some mob generators but re-fighting bosses is much more fun than hitting a standing object or figthing unchallenging cannon fodders, and makes you reconsider old strategies.

[ashen tinsel]

If you really want to "train" a weapon skill, just go wail on a friend using pvp. After 5min you'll realize how boring that is, and see why the devs dont want that in the game for anytime someone at high skill dies and needs to retrain.

[amber wind]

Deliberately training skills is boring. I think the solution is just to remove the skills pane and just have it be invisible to the player.

[sterile frost]

bad idea

[unkempt raven]

No, it's much too... full of stuff. I'd much prefer a much "cleaner" looking boss head.

I think the boss looks cool, just not as wall decoration.

[arctic wharf]

Dragon eggs into food is such a ♻️
But ye know, making some big omelets wouldn't be the worst addition hahahaha

[amber wind]

I think you misspelled 'best idea' there.

[charred ibex]

Farming Suggestion:

Valheim Farming is great, it is a solid time sink to produce food to cook and use. There is however this one small thing I just can't get out of my mind and that is I feel like it is mandatory for me to have a mod installed to help me plant crops in a line or grid. Now at the start when I played Valheim I did not mod at all and the learning curve of how to plant and look after the farm is a small but painful process and rewarding, however when you scale up and plant say 200+ carrots and you take a lot of time to make sure they are spaced and plant one by one you start looking around for a mod to ease the task. Would love to know from somebody who knows more what the design intent is behind this, I will always be a “respect the player's time first” type of person but for example sailing in Valheim can take a lot of time however sailing leads to cool random encounters and exploring where well… farming is you looking down at floor wishing you did not have so much to plant. Look I know there are some tricks like markers or looking over your shoulder and moving forward while spam clicking to plant in a line fast, I have been there and done that.

Now that you know my mindset here is my thinking and suggestions, keep in mind crafting mats and durability stays the same.

Cultivator:

Quality 1: You can plant 1x1, autosnap feature on/off function to help plant in grid.
Quality 2: You can hold down ctrl and scroll up or down to select 1x1, 1x2 or 2x2, same auto snap/grid with on off function.
Quality 3: 1x1, 1x2, 2x2, 2x4, 4x4 the rest the same as above.

You get the idea right? So here with some buff food and the gear from Hildir farming becomes a focused task and much better optimised and quality of life.

EDIT: So maybe I should devide this into 2 suggestions being 1.) The grid planting example 2x2 planting. 2. ) Just like building we get help auto snapping some build pieces maybe just this with planting crops.

[granite geyser]

If you don't need +200 carrots then don't plant +200 carrots

If you only need to plant 99 carrots and get enough for a while, then do it.

You have the free will to make tedious tasks not as tedious and instead of trying it you decide to continue doing them.

[gusty cloak]

Hello
I am a player from Taiwan
My English is not very good
So I use Google Translate

I love Valheim
I hope there can be more fun at sea

Instead of just rushing to the next land, you can add more ships at sea and add long-range artillery similar to maritime weapons.

[charred ibex]

This is true, however same reasoning could be applied to many things. In a 4 player server I always end up farming and after 100's of hours many things can become dull, one of the first things was farming in mass. I always keep a few hundred of everything spare. I could just not do that or I could make others help out. There are many ways to go about it. In the end it is a tough thing to balance the task effort and reward or maybe I play too much Valheim 🤣

[fleet lintel]

The tendency is still to use more and more materials that require more and more intermediary steps to cook meals that still only last 30 minutes. And farming (other than fishing) is by far the most tedious and time consuming. If they don’t want food that lasts for longer than an in-game-day then a way to farm more faster would make the process remain enjoyable, or at least smooth out the tedium, as the game progressed.

[runic patio]

I actually enjoy the jankyness of not having grids in the farm - at first the "unhealthy" legumes are annoying but enventually you'll just grow stacks of them so after a while you stop caring.

I still find collecting them annoying as you need to actively aim precicely every single one of them, unless there's a tricks I'm missing.

I find having imperfections gives builds much more character and less of a "computer game" feel. This is why I typically like to adapt to the environment rather than just put everything flat and build form there.

[short wing]

Keep your mouse cursor pressed and move around while pointing at the crops, less clicking that way.

[runic patio]

Will try, though that sounds weird since we're supposed to press E normally to interact with stuff...

[wanton edge]

I don't have any trouble with spacing crops - just walk (the slow walk, not run) and plant as soon as it becomes available. Spaces fine, easy to walk in a straight line for rows if you want or you can do spirals/circles. Can't remember the last time I lost crops to bad spacing. Might not be squeezing the absolute most crops into a space but its close, tidy, and fast.

Gathering is irritating though - hold e and wangle jangle the camera around gets a little old

[short wing]

Yeah it will be the use button, I'm confusing things.

[wanton edge]

Also this! Absolutely perfect grids of crops tend to have a slightly uncanny valley vibe in video games

[rose swan]

Agree 100%, having things less grid-like really adds to the atmosphere of the game and adds to immersion. Embrace the imperfections!

[short wing]

Love the curves and all the edges, all the perfect imperfections.

[warm spade]

It's just the time that's the issue for me. Slowly picking up each crop like I'm a geriatric and not a viking is a little frustrating.

[rose swan]

Yeah, I do understand that for sure!

[amber wind]

Which is worse? The wangle jangle or the hokey pokey?

[wintry bobcat]

wangle jangle

[amber wind]

If you plant in somewhat straight lines, you can just walk forward while pressing E to harvest the entire line. Then you don't need to wangle jangle (unless you want to).

[wintry bobcat]

I like to plant in straightish lines and then walk through panning my camera to harvest 2-3 lines of plants at once

[amber wind]

That's the wangle jangle! And we all fall down!

I like to harvest my crops using the electric slide, tbh.

[wintry bobcat]

what about the boggaloo?

(jump around from plant to plant in no particular order. Best if you have high jump skill so you can jump to plants far away)

[amber wind]

Haven't tried that one yet...I feel it is probably more efficient than the electric slide...so no.

[wintry bobcat]

Hey efficiency isn't such a bad thing

[amber wind]

If it makes the game faster and more enjoyable, I'm against it!

[wintry bobcat]

ahhh a fellow masochist

[arctic wharf]

This is when you just have the crop always get slight randomized rotations and movement when being placed, thus breaking up the perfect lines / grid 😋

[wintry bobcat]

All the worst world modifiers then, I pressume?

[gloomy forge]

What does the ♻️mean

[wintry bobcat]

that the suggestion has been suggested before

[pure patio]

There are pinned posts in that channel for a reason... #suggestions message

[amber wind]

I thought it meant to take your idea and make it into something different.

[wintry bobcat]

Fair assumption. It’s what I expect people to assume it means

[granite geyser]

Haven't seen a horse suggestion in a while until now, that's odd

[unkempt raven]

It's also sometimes used for stuff that's already in the game (and obviously some dev suggested then it so it has been suggested before).

Noone's preventing us from building stables now, odd thing to suggest.

[granite geyser]

That too

[unkempt raven]

I like building stables for my mounts.

[granite geyser]

Why do people so often forget about the wonders of highly modular building mechanics?

Seems like asking to just grab the hammer to build and an entire stable will appear out of nowhere, as if it was a RTS game...

Yeah, no

[night cave]

Just consider Lox as oversized Clydesdales, and there you go lol

[amber wind]

Lack of imagination...why limit it to horses...I want rideable dinosaurs!

[stiff stag]

Rideable necks would look hilarious.

[amber wind]

Of course, in my version, they are evil dinosaurs, and they buck you off their backs, and then eat you to death, instantly destroying your inventory and resetting your skills to zero.

Instant death by necks would be even better. 😉

[rose swan]

Stables are already in the game, just like taverns and docks and farmhouses and longhouses, just gotta build em’ yourself 😁

[pure patio]

💡 hitching post for my lox

[wanton edge]

Lox do tend to destroy everything if aggroed though - would be nice if tame lox didn't destroy buildings

[rose swan]

Lox is the only creature I don’t tame- they’re just so destructive 😅

[wanton edge]

Yeah its lame that you often wind up having to keep then in ground pits / earthen walls

[rose swan]

What if there was a way to toggle the temperament of lox? Set them to passive or protective for example?

I also dislike how they tend to climb each other, or has that been fixed now?

[wanton edge]

That would be cool! I think they still climb all over each other

[rose swan]

Ah, bummer!

[hexed jewel]

SOME sort of way to keep them from going on a rampage because they sniffed a fuling on the other side of the indestructible earth wall--and they keep raging for a bit even after you've killed it!

[wanton edge]

There, suggested it again

[finite vapor]

Yeah seriously it's just not a fun mechanic having them destroy everything in your base and not being able to do anything about it. Especially because of stuff like bat raids existing

All those shrubs and berry bushes you try to protect go poof and you can never build them again

I tame everything but lox, hell I'll even take rabbits or necks in a glass enclosure

[fluid goblet]

#suggestions message would love to have it but while on your inventory it would be strapped horizontally to your back (and not inside your magical pocket) so it'd be a challenge to traverse dense forests and get inside your house

[granite geyser]

@ocean nest what?

[short wing]

Hildir and haldor naming your loxes.

[ocean nest]

Haldor and Hildir are big specialists in lox taming, if trader see you with tamed and not named lox he or she can suggest a authentic Scandinavian name

[granite geyser]

So... Something you can do yourself?

[ocean nest]

Yes, but why not.

This little things makes game interesting. Bees loves you, option to pet Halstein, the Haldors lox and he will love you too

[mortal lichen]

So I have to pay everytime one of my loxen dies and I gotta rename a new one? 🤷‍♀️

[rose swan]

If I’m understanding correctly, I think the fee is for a suggestion on a name for your lox.

[mortal lichen]

Oh, right!

In that case that's kinda cute ignore me

[rose swan]

But yeah, I don’t think it would really add much, even as far as ‘little things’ go. If I were to take a spin on it, maybe your Lox could nuzzle theirs if you manage to bring one of your own lox to the merchant(s) 😅

[pure patio]

Alternatively, come to the Discord and ask for lox names. I've got tons of suggestions. Loxanne, Lox Out, Bagel, Fuzzbutt... 😛

[wanton edge]

Goldie (lox) is my fav, followed by (lox) Ness

[hot willow]

I have Molly and Lucy

[outer lion]

make surtr' the boss for the new ashlands

[unkempt raven]

Why on earth would he be killable in Valheim when he's busy being elsewhere and has an important part to play at Ragnarok?

[hot willow]

I know it's another dragon but Nidhogg would be cool too

[unkempt raven]

Why would he be in Valheim?

[hot willow]

Why not?

[unkempt raven]

Because he is canonically elsewhere.

Of you're gonna take a figure from the mythology and move him to Valheim from where he's supposed to be (and even more so if you're gonna make him killable thus changing/preventing their future role) then at least come up with a reason. :p

[hot willow]

Chewing at the root of yggdrasil.. The world tree.. roots would be near the bottom of the tree and Ashlands is at the bottom of the world

[unkempt raven]

Valheim isn't connected to Yggdrasil.

That's a fairly important part of the setting.

[hot willow]

What? Theres literally yggdrasil wood

[unkempt raven]

I recommend you look at the intro text we get when we start the game to get a basic overview of the lore. Valheim's lore is pretty simple and not very elaborate, but it's there.

[hexed jewel]

it's Surtr's little known and never mentioned in Norse canon cousin, Sirtr

who's otherwise identical in every respect

[unkempt raven]

Long lost twin.

[hexed jewel]

exactly

[silk halo]

@cursive rain the only way to do that would be to make the particles smaller, creating lots more particles, resulting in lots more lag

can't see a benefit to doing that

[granite geyser]

Yes, he's very busy being dead

[granite geyser]

1. What I said above

2. The boss is set in stone (literally). Asking them to change it is like asking them to revert back progress on the whole update

[outer lion]

🤓

[granite geyser]

Mocking won't get you far

[outer lion]

you must be fun at parties

[outer lion]

1: sorry i too had an oppinion and dont read all the history of this chat

2: i can still give them suggestions

[meager geyser]

It would be cool to have a middle point between no ore TP and or TP, could be once you beat the X biome boss or X+1 biome boss you could TP ore through portals placed in this specific biome 🙂 edit : oh wrong channel soz

[silk halo]

@cursive rain you can already pipe smoke out using existing pieces

or you can contain it until it dissipates as well

[hot willow]

You can change your world modifier settings at any time when starting the game. If you feel you've earned ore transport, allow it. You can play this game however you want

[stiff stag]

Didn't seem like they were talking about ore transport in general, it sounds like specifically ores obtained at a given stage of the game. So for example defeating the elder could allow you to portal tin, copper, and bronze, and defeating bonemass would allow you to bring iron through portals, and so on. Basically just a convenience/qol option instead of having to manually make sure you only take the ores through that you want to be able to.

[runic patio]

#suggestions message To me that would alleviate the "I don't wanna build a portal/Mini Base near a danger spot" anxiaety that builds up every time you're "being on the limit of where you can reach the tombstone wihtin time" so much.

I really hate that mechanic in that it encourages you too much not to take risks or inversely makes you build crap mini bases all over.

[granite geyser]

So in a game where building and exploration in a dangerous world is an important aspect of the entire game, being encourage to explore and build is... A bad thing.

Starting to think that people read "Brutal" in the game's description and just assume "heh, it must actually be a very easy game"

[runic patio]

I don't think building 2 walls, 2 roofs all over the map to place a bed "a fun mechanic"

[granite geyser]

You're the one who decided to build two walls and two roofs...

Similarly to other players who decided to not do that and build actual bases instead

[runic patio]

Of course because you visit a dangerous place and there's like a single dangerous [thing around], I won't stop and build a friggen castle around it.

I'm a viking, I loot.

[runic patio]

For now, that's the best way to deal with hard places that the game has tought me: the less investment in time for greatest reward.

[stiff stag]

The suggestion would only really work out if the current death penalty is kept or adjusted a bit to balance the benefits. Dying should also naturally have negative consequences, not neutral ones. You don't lose any progress from what was suggested since it just puts you back to the same positive skill growth rate you started with without decreasing the skill level. With the current system you do actually lose progress and have to work to get back to where you were if you die, as it should be.

[granite geyser]

@lunar onyx it's not a city management game.

And dvergrs are there for their own business, not to help you.

They don't care about you

[lunar onyx]

It would be cool if dvergr give you quest to. Adds content to the game. Hildir and Haldor are both dvergr that you can interact with so why not be able to interact with all of them. It’s not a city management game, yet you can build entire cities and if you stick around and read what dvergr say one does mention that their base could use repairing.

[granite geyser]

The ability to construct cities doesn't mean the game was, is and will be designed to become a city management game. Especially when automation is a no from devs, and NPCs doing the work from you is 100% automation. It would also make the game boring and tedious.

And I haven't mentioned the guaranteed issues regarding the pathfinding when the AI even tried to move around the player's base. The AI in this game is dumb... Like, very dumb, clearly not meant to be any more complex than running around and hit you

Haldor and hildir are there on their own terms, the rest of the dvergr are there on other terms.

And the clearly don't care what the others are doing

[steep briar]

So - I haven't made this suggestion yet cuz I wanna workshop it... ya know how you have effigies in The Forest? It would be rad if there was a special item mount - call it an Effigy for now - and it affects the area covered by the workbench (in the event of overlapping areas, use the one nearest to the effigy). You can mount differentr trophies on the Effigy to get different charms/effects for your workbench area.

As an example, a Troll trophy might reduce the chance for raids while a Greydwarf Shaman trophy might reduce poison effects in the area. These are just examples I came up with.

I had a similar idea for a bed headboard with a similar function except you'd get temporary 5min bonuses (like the boss powers but reduced) when resting in that area.

[lunar onyx]

Dvergr don’t care about you yet you have to interact with them to get their chest in their base..Dvergr are neutral by default so why not give the player the option to befriend them or kill them for the crate. And repairing a small base isn’t as difficult or complex as a city management game. All it requires is a workbench and a stonecutter

[granite geyser]

"You can interact with them to get their chest..."

You don't. They explicitly tell you to not touch what is not yours, and they're very quick to anger as a result. They're not your friends, they only tolerate your presence, not welcome it

[granite geyser]

Maintainance is literally the least of the worries for city management mechanics in this game...

[lunar onyx]

In order to get sap and progress in the game you have to obtain the contents of the component crate. Damaging the crate or any part or a dvergr structure makes them hostile. Why not give the player the option to repair their structure and befriend them. Why must the game force you to kill them to progress?? I would love to have the ability to have a 1 star dvergr mage heal or buff me while I fight hordes of seekers. “The enemy of my enemy, is my friend”

[granite geyser]

I can understand the part about being able to get rewards from them, especially the extractor

But definitely not using them as labor for your base, or even actively helping you as if what you do suddenly concerned them.

Even if they were slightly more friendlier, they should still have the risk of getting aggro at you if you cross the lines. Like maybe forgiving receiving an attack from you several times but outright killing one of them or dealing an X amount of accumulated dmg would still make them attack you

[lofty wave]

Or stealing their valuable components

[silk halo]

in reality bro's are looking for any excuse to fry our asses

[rose swan]

Would be interesting just to be able to do a simple trade, like [blank] for extractor. Or even a third option, being able to steal one. This way, the player has 3 (or I guess 4 if you consider luring monsters to their outposts) options of obtaining a needed component; brute force, bartering, or thievery.

[real hill]

I would like to know if Valheim supports IPV 6 build server, if not temporarily, can you update the support later?😭😭

I tried to build a server with an IPV 6 address, but it didn't work!

[amber wind]

@real hill Did you try posting this in https://discord.com/channels/391142601740517377/1202550119191412736 ?

[real hill]

No, I'm going to send it now

[placid aspen]

i made a suggestion once to make a seperate portal item that runs on sap and it portals ore at the same rate it is smelted to a connected portal, could use black cores to build too so very expensive

but comes out the other end still as ore and cant portal ingots

[pure patio]

@inland mango Should be the miniboss of the Mistlands incarnation of Hildir's dungeons 😉

[rose swan]

That would actually be pretty funny 😂

[glacial shoal]

I talked about planting berries and mushrooms in suggestion, alot said no. May I know your guys reason as to why it's not liked?

And what does recycle mean in the votes, did someone said something similar? As I didn't see anyone talk about unless I scrolled passed it

[granite geyser]

Foraging > Everything conveniently farmable inside your base

[granite geyser]

Because all suggestions before the hack were deleted

[stiff stag]

#suggestions message
From the pinned messages in #suggestions

[glacial shoal]

Thank you

[glacial shoal]

Fair, but at the same time from what I explored, most small abandoned buildings had a berry farm

[granite geyser]

You can assume those have always been there and other settlers build the villages surrounding them rather than them planting the berries

[glacial shoal]

Huh, I didn't think of that. Thank you

[pure patio]

As an anecdote, I have literally built bases intentionally near berry bush groups and nearby mushrooms and such, especially when I'm setting up a boar farm.

[unkempt raven]

Berry bushes are neat as base decoration (and it's useful to have the close). Personal record is 17 bushes in a (small) base, took over an abandoned village. :>

(Also, it's generally safe to assume that things have been suggested before, probably many times, unless you've got something that seems like an inventive idea. Remember that th egame's been available to the general public for three years.)

[rose swan]

Also, you can use the search feature and look up up keywords to see if a suggestion has been suggested before- it’s a little extra work, but you’ll be able to give support to an already existing suggestion for what it’s worth. Furthermore, you might find old conversations about some suggestions, which are always fun to read through imo lol

[barren vault]

Curious to know why an option to reset build menu isn’t favourable…

[stiff stag]

I don't see the need or reason for it, especially not for the situation you provided. You'll just unlock most of the build options/everything again pretty quickly if you're at that stage of the game.

[rose swan]

Why not just make a new character? 🙂

If it’s about skills and retaining levels, what’s so harmful about having all the build options ‘unlocked?’

[void warren]

I think there's already a console command for that? And all the above ^

[hexed jewel]

#suggestions message could use something like the gem power enhancing system, where you buy the first level (current) megingjord then you have to find some obtainable (would seem appropriate to locate in Mistlands or beyond progression wise) that you use at some workstation which combined with first leve megingjord as ingredient gives you the upgraded megingjord

(first though was just unlocks later, to be bought, at trader, after beating a certain boss, but this sounded more exciting to me)

[barren vault]

Oh really? Will check that out, didn’t know.

[barren vault]

I just like the unlock pop ins, what can I say. and I’ve been seeing how long it takes to max skills without grinding, just playing through

[void warren]

I know there's some for resetting, might not be as specific as you need

[wanton atlas]

@barren vault that already exist

use the resetcharacter command

or "resetknownitems"

[ashen tinsel]

#suggestions message My first thought for this one was randomly a skeleton would spawn riding a drake in the mountains, and that made me smile. I like the idea, but implementing that in older biomes would add difficulty and not much else. ||also it may already exist in game at least once...||

[hexed jewel]

#suggestions message this is getting downvotes (right now, ratio-wise) but honestly (A) they already have precedent for equipment only usable on tameds and (B) honestly love more ideas to add uses for metals, ESPECIALLY black metal, omg that stuff piles up so fast once you're out of that tier!

[barren vault]

Thank you! 🙏

[granite geyser]

It doesn't

[ashen tinsel]

If thats in reference to my spoiler i was talking about ||Zil and Thungr||

[granite geyser]

Huh, completely forgot about those.

My bad then

[pure patio]

You don't fill your ballistas and arbalest with blackmetal ammunition? 😉

[wintry bobcat]

I can always use more blackmetal. Great for chests too

Plus need a good amount if I need to set up a 2nd base

[pure patio]

I just stay up at night, Fulings bring plenty of blackmetal to me 😛

Actually did that the other night, had a Seeker raid at nighttime in the plains and it was hilarious. So many dead seekers and fulings and I mostly just watched.

[hexed jewel]

i'm actually a little embarassed I didn't recall that TBH, those are pretty decent uses--and the chests @wintry bobcat yes, so wonderful--but I still think the # uses to rate of accumulation is a little off, at least with respect to the other metals, and that's why for blackmetal specifically/especially, more uses certainly wouldn't hurt, I think would only be a value enhancer. I REALLY would love a structural support piece, could just be literally identical to the wood-iron poles as is, but using blackmetal instead, to take some of the building 'heavy lifting' off of iron, which is probably right now the single most useful/in demand metal honestly given how many later game things (and also, before that) keep being useful and needing iron.

[wintry bobcat]

Hmm maybe just different perspectives. I just don’t feel like black metal accumulates that heavily unless maybe you have a base in the Plains, but if you have a base in an area you’re bound to get more materials than you need from that once you’re done progressing in it

[ashen tinsel]

Can confirm, day 130 with no plains base. Have well over 600 black metal from raids n such.

[pure patio]

Except for iron in the swamp 😭

[wanton atlas]

time to build alot of black metal chests then 😉

[wintry bobcat]

How do you get so much excess 😭

I blow it all on chests and upgrading axe and pick and making sap extractors. And often just skip weapon to save metal

[rose swan]

Yeah, I actually find myself a little low on black metal sometimes, and I live in the plains lol

[wintry bobcat]

Same

Granted I should eradicate more villages

[pure patio]

Once I get enough for all my weapons and such it starts piling up. You only need a few sap extractors, they will work infinitely.

[spice yew]

I spent too much time exploding encampments when the magic weapons came out

[ashen tinsel]

Fulings tend to show up constantly in every biome for me, and there being two raids that disgorge scrap is where I get the bulk of mine. That and 45 a camp adds up fast. Just can't ignore one if I see it, those giggling imps have to burn.

[pure patio]

After defeating each boss except Moder, new enemies spawn at night. After Yagluth, you get Fulings every night across the world (except the swamps), and they're a great source of black metal. It's even more fun after defeating the Queen, and then you get the fulings and seekers and ticks all fighting each other and you just need to pick up the pieces afterwards 😛

[ashen tinsel]

Is there a reason Moder doesn't have a new spawn? The odd drake adventuring out of the mountains to seek a new mate makes sense to me.

[granite geyser]

New spawn how?

[silk halo]

she has 3 possible spawns, adding more would make sense from a gameplay point of view, but not from a balancing one

[ashen tinsel]

Nighttime entity spawns across the world when you defeat a boss

[pure patio]

Everything from the mountains would be basically invulnerable and/or OP at night compared to everything else at that stage of the game.

[ashen tinsel]

Right, drakes would wipe the map. Makes sense.

[granite geyser]

Besides, why would wolves and drakes leave the natural habitat they're clearly adapted to live at?

Rest of the creatures can be expected but probably not wolves and drakes

Idk wtf golems are

[rose swan]

Fenring might be an option, but that would be pretty odd, since they’re completely unrelated to Moder… though it would be interesting to see those glaring eyes and hear those howls in the meadows 😅

But honestly, probably a bit too strong… just ignore me lol

[granite geyser]

#suggestions message

It would be extremely unfair and even cheaty that some players could enter a world with easiest difficulty and forgiving death penalties

And might even encourage griefing somehow.

A player could enter with easiest settings for their character only while everyone else is at hardcore and just manage to ruin the game

[silk halo]

they would be found out very quickly

and i really don't even agree with the premise that your difficulty settings affect others, as long as you don't lie about them

worlds with modifiers get tags for this reason

ideally you'd mouse over the other player and it would tell you their difficulty settings so everything is transparent for everyone

could be a magnifying glass icon/function in the hammer menu even (so you don't see it all the time)

[prime needle]

right, thats why i said in world creation you could turn off or on the character specific modifiers, so in multiplayer servers if you want everyone to be on the same playing field, you can make it that way.

its really just more inclusive to players of all skill levels.

[silk halo]

portals would need to be kept as a world modifier however

[wintry bobcat]

why specifically portals?

[silk halo]

imagine the group starts a no portals world and then someone has them active

or one person is portalling metal while the rest are sailing it

[wintry bobcat]

I mean, I wouldn't like that. But I'm also against hte suggestion

The suggestion seems to be to make the game easier for some players than others. Portalling, difficulty, map, resources, doesn't seme much different to me fundamentally

[prime needle]

i just would love to play w my fiancée. Shes not a big fan of challenging combat in games, but loves stardew valley, the sims, etc.

i think she would really enjoy building in valheim, and I would like normal settings for myself if we were to play together.

[wintry bobcat]

I can see why you'd want it, and as a toggleable option it doesn't sound too bad. I just honestly don't think a lot of people will use it (or if they do, it might often be to attempt to mislead others), so it's a bit much for devs to implement just for that

However, maybe you could try and put the difficulty on easy/very easy and just always use gear from a biome lower than what you have access to?

[prime needle]

yeah thats completely valid.

honestly i like that idea! might have to give it a try.

[wintry bobcat]

I'm a bit of a difficulty spike junkie, so I use the built in difficulty levels but find ways to challenge myself even more. Right now trying out banning a lot of weapons that I feel make the game too easy, like bow and atgeir

[prime needle]

haha i respect it

[eternal storm]

I think it would be cool if the ambient music that plays when you're at home would change depending on the comfort level to reflect the richness of the location. It doesn't need to be different tunes, it might be the same tune played with more and more sophisticated instruments. For example, just a flute when you're resting at a campfire in the open (it doesn't happen right now, but why not), regular music when you're at least at comfort 3, the part with strings only at comfort 10, and so on.

It would help with the monotony of always hearing the same tune, and it would be one more way to make you appreciate your progress.

[amber wind]

I just turn the music off. It's okay the first time you hear it, but after an hour or so, silence is golden.

[spare gull]

I like this idea

[unkempt raven]

@tough reef while it's not proper books in any way, you can use signs as makeshift books to make a bookshelf.

Example: #screenshots message

[viscid crater]

I had the idea of changing the home theme based on the biome you're in. Same melody but with different instruments representative of the region

[viscid crater]

@loud garden did you forget the 💡

[granite geyser]

"if you want everyone to be on the same playing field, you can make it that way"

So... The exact same way it is right now...

In that case why making it separate if it wouldn't be any different? In public servers everyone would enforce the world modifiers

@loud garden it can't be changed

[loud garden]

unfortunate

[wanton atlas]

@loud sapphire the problem with a even closer camera, is that the camera will start to clip into the character..
run around in tight dungeons in black forrest and you'll see why :/

[loud sapphire]

Fair enough.

[tough reef]

Would 1st person camera be plausible? Not that i need it. I think implementing it would be a lot of work

But i do need it for valheim VR so i can actually live the 'heim with my vr kit

[hollow elm]

Has anyone that up-ticks the ♻️ icon ever considered that they might spend too much time in Valheim and its peripheral entities?

(Says the guy with 1500 hrs in game, but I'm just curious).

[granite geyser]

#general message

[tough reef]

nnoooo!

[burnt spire]

@north pebble
Regarding #suggestions message
How old is your grandfather? 😮

[north pebble]

He's probably one of the older players, he also plays at least 5 hours a day and is currently gearing up to fight the plains boss. Still can't dodge roll though

Oh he's 74

[burnt spire]

I'm having a hard time to imagine a grandfather playing games. Most of us surely will do that at that age, but nowadays that's rare

[burnt spire]

Damn! Tell him he's awesome ❤️

[north pebble]

He's only really been playing games like that for the past year or so. He was listening to me and my uncle talking about a game and wanted to be involved. His first survival was emshrouded but he's played other games like sea of thieves and starfield

[warm laurel]

#suggestions message are u sure u arent refering to minecraft or what are snow- and glowberries?

[warm laurel]

#suggestions message get wolfs, boars and loxes

[arctic wharf]

I have seen some third person cameras that basically zoom into almost a first person view when your back is up ageinst a well, with the character phasing out of existance. In some games it is done so well that the camera wont even clip through the walls either.

Perhaps that might be an option worth considering, just for ease of visibility in tight places.

[wanton atlas]

we have done that alot and we continue work with it.
but don't expect huge changes from the current one

sometimes, the player is phased out due to camera can't have both

[arctic wharf]

Ooohhhh. That's some wild news. I hope it turns out well 🤞

[stiff stag]

invisibility mead

[fluid goblet]

I did use this for some screenshots where I wanted the HUD but not the viking

[rose swan]

@celest beacon Hey! Just letting you know, if you hold shift while using the hoe, I believe it smooths the ground out a little. Hope this helps!

[wanton atlas]

I think he don't know about Tessalation setting

[celest beacon]

That makes my hoe go to the exact point on the terrain, so yeah! It helps me. Thank you

[celest beacon]

Isn't that an graphic settings?

[wanton atlas]

yes

that setting makes the ground in the entire world, slightly uneven

if you want as flat as flat can be

turn it off

then the place you flatten with the hoe, will be the same height as the player characters height

[celest beacon]

hmm, let me test

[celest beacon]

That's exactly what I need, thank you for letting me know about it

[wanton atlas]

you're welcome 🙂

[granite geyser]

#suggestion-discussion message

Neither of these commands are in the wiki, are they actually a thing?

If yes, were they always there or recently added?

[wanton atlas]

we add commands as time goes by 🤔

like timescale

and like 100's more commands

[granite geyser]

Something tells me the commands wiki might be outdated then

[wanton atlas]

yes

heavily 😄

[granite geyser]

Would be more useful if a certain dev was more involved

[wanton atlas]

I actually did join the wiki editors

the maces where wrong for example

[brisk turtle]

I edited the wiki once

Should I have the Chronicler role?

[wintry bobcat]

I think Moders attacks are wrong too. Pretty sure her bite is pierce but it’s listed as slash

[karmic flax]

just give it to yourself

[brisk turtle]

lmao I didn't realize it was a self-assign role

Guess I'm a Chronicler now 😎

[unkempt raven]

was about to ask if the one suggesting changes to the hoe actually knew how the hoe worked, then read the chat and concluded "nope, they didn't, now they do."

Shift + hoe is such a great function.

People keep claiming making smooth inclines is impossible. I wonder if they have even tried.

[stiff stag]

I never knew shift was an option you could use with the hoe, I'll have to try it out tomorrow.

[unkempt raven]

It flattens the ground to where you are pointing rather than to where you stand. It's great for making inclined paths.

When I make roads in hilly terrain, I use the hoe to pathen and ca. even the incline with the standard function, and then spam shift+hoe while moving the mouse cursor along the intended path, then fix any big bumps with raise ground/pickaxe and then flatten it normal hoe and shift+hoe again until it's a properly smooth inclined path.

I don't think there's anywhere in-game you're told about shift+hoe, it should be added to the Hugin tip if it's not alread there and I have just forgotten it.

[stiff stag]

Does the hoe have anything at the bottom of its menu like the hammer does for the actions? Never thought to check.

[unkempt raven]

I'll log in and check,

[fleet lintel]

Does shift + hoe harvest my potato’s without destroying them?

[unkempt raven]

Honestly the bottom menu of the hoe doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

#screenshots message

That looks very much like the hammer menu.

I'm reasonably sure the hoe doesn't utilize snapping points. :p

Yeah both the hoe and the cultivator have the hammer's bottom menu.

@bright flower that has, as you probably are fully aware of, already happened. The team's thrice the size as it was at EA launch, and they (rigthly imo) prioritize quality over speed in releases.

If you want to play finished games, don't buy games that specifically are under development but stick to buying finished games.

[fluid goblet]

buys EA game; game is not finished; "I have a suggestion ☝️ 🤓"

[stiff stag]

Might be because the same base template is used for the 3 menus, and the actions for the hammer are listed as a default for that template rather than being handled separately per tool.

[bright flower]

Imagine getting upset at a suggestion, more or less just joking but also telling truth.

[unkempt raven]

Yeah probably something like that. Would be nice to have proper menus for all three.

[fluid goblet]

nothing about that message showed that he was upset, he was just telling you info you probably have missed

[unkempt raven]

Obvious troll is obvious, no need to feed it more. :p

[bright flower]

You are probably right, would you not agree somewhat with my suggestion?

[fluid goblet]

I wouldn't!

[granite geyser]

Disguising rage bait as joking doesn't make it less report-worthy.

What you said doesn't make sense, please inform yourself better

More devs =/= faster development.

It's not how it works

[bright flower]

Thanks for the suggestion!

[fluid goblet]

yeah that was probably my first and last flamey response to something like that, not worthy at all

[karmic flax]

I think most of us would prefer that they dont downsize the team to the original, yes

[bright flower]

How long would it take with one dev then?

[granite geyser]

A lot...

Doesn't mean my point isn't less true

[fluid goblet]

difference gets diminished the higher number of people you get, too many cooks for a simple soup

[bright flower]

So how would more devs not speed up a process of developing a game?

[bright flower]

As you can tell, I may not know much about this, I guess i’m more frustrated than anything.

[fluid goblet]

as it has been pointed out already by the devs, Ashlands could've been released 5 iterations ago, but it is now 5 times better so why do it in a rush? if you can have better yelds from patience and caring for your product why release something just ok?

[granite geyser]

More meetings, more people discussing, more time planning stuff, etc

[stiff stag]

You end up with a "too many cooks in the kitchen" situation with too many people, which ends up slowing down progress. And it's not much of a coherent team if you quickly dump a bunch of new random people into the mix just because. They know better than anyone what size team they need and when they need more.

[bright flower]

You all have made me think about something I have not before, I appreciate it.

[silk halo]

the team went from 1 to 14, and with 2 biomes left and one of them very close to PTB/release, hiring more ppl at this point would be more a hindrance than help, since it takes new staff a while to catch up

[arctic wharf]

There are ways you can go about it 🤷‍♂️

not that any more is needed for core production, but a handful for a small side team to add to old biomes wouldn't hurt hehe

[silk halo]

i wouldn't want some fresh team changing the older biomes, it sounds good in theory but either they'd be so restricted in what they could do it wouldn't be worth doing or they'd make some big changes and get a mountain of complaints, either way the lead devs would still be calling the shots and would probably end up having to sort a big mess out which they could have made a better job of themselves in the first place

Hildir unfortunately being the perfect example, in the disjointed way it's been thrown in, doesn't really add anything except cosmetic changes, and is preferable to avoid since the cost is so high (having to deal with starred raids) and the reward is negligible

(plus world modifiers already exist for the "HuRt Me MoAr" ppl )

[pure patio]

The raids are the best part of Hildir

[silk halo]

why what new weapon/armor/food build piece etc do you get for completing them over and over?

0

it's just a pointless difficulty spike

[wintry bobcat]

You get materials, and the raids look cool and unique 😄

[silk halo]

if adding starred raids was all folk wanted i'd have just added it as a slider

[wintry bobcat]

I'm saying that without having engaged much with Hildr tho

I'd say it's moreso cool having the bosses show up at your base. They show up as part of the raid right?

[silk halo]

it's cool once

[wintry bobcat]

I wish there was some benefit for the BF and Mountain boss kill tho

I'll say at first when I heard mistlands gear being upgraded higher due to additions from Hildrs update I thought you actually had to engage with her for the upgrades. That wasn't the case

[silk halo]

almost like progression and balance are iron clad and weren't allowed to be touched

[stiff stag]

Would have been nice if the trigger for the raids was separate from receiving the rewards, since the added difficulty far outweighs the benefits (especially when those benefits/rewards are just vanity type stuff).

[silk halo]

they did eventually throw some eggs in there but it hardly makes up for it all

[pure patio]

I really need to get the other bosses done, I only have the Plains raid right now. But it's a fun challenge overall, free blackmetal and I'm never going to get a real fuling berserker trophy anyways 😛

[silk halo]

imagine if that time had been spent giving the current starred variants nice trophies

that would give us a reason to go hunt all of them down

would've added hundreds of hours of content for little work

[amber wind]

Seems a bit backhanded to add side quests that increase the game difficulty when you've completed them. What was the thinking behind this?

[stiff stag]

Just have it be a separate item you can loot from the boss rooms, with a warning that they will return to raid you if you steal the item. Keeps it separate from finishing the quests and getting the rewards, still gives a reason for why they start raiding you, and it's your choice if you want the raids to start.

[wintry bobcat]

oh also forgot to mention: Prob not many people will use it like this, but I kinda wanna rack up some powerful non-ashlands raids under my belt bc I'm playing on max raid rate, so then I can slap down 3 base items in Ashlands to summon a horde of hungry monsters to assist me in slaughtering the locals. 1 star fuling raid in ashlands ain't so bad

[amber wind]

#suggestions message Oooh, I like this. So many accidental deaths from people walking into their own stakes without any food in them. Priceless.

[wanton atlas]

sure. if the damage is higher than 25. it's instant death for a newly spawned viking

[amber wind]

Cmon...people will only do it one time before they learn...5 or 6 times tops.

Accidental self-impalement will be the new drop a tree on your head.

[wanton atlas]

not as fun tho

and falling from roofs or walls is the #1 cause of death in valheim 😄

[amber wind]

I believe it

Not setting yourself on fire from inching forward to much when trying to use the cookpot?

[iron plank]

#suggestions message Separate scaling for various parts of the UI is a very good suggestion that should be part of the Vanilla game. We all know that many Valheim players are getting a bit on the old side and our eyes are not what they used to be.

[pure patio]

Snap point rotation has been the biggest death prevention upgrade in this game, at least for me

[rose swan]

#suggestions message It would be interesting if there were some late game food options that provided a decent sized health/stamina buff, but lasted much longer. For example, a mistlands tier food items that gave the same buff as queens jam, but lasted 30min or longer.

Speaking of, is wolf jerky the last/strongest ‘balanced’ food item? Setting aside Eitr foods?

[wintry bobcat]

@olive yacht can you define special combo attacks?

[stiff stag]

I would assume they mean the weapons that have 3 hit combos, where each successive move is different than the last and the end of the combo doing bonus damage if you can pull it off.

[olive yacht]

I'm referring to the special to combo attacks that use right click and can only be done with the sword, mace and dagger

[wintry bobcat]

Those are technically exploits (animation cancelling) and not intended to be in the game, so devs are more likely to remove them than to add functionality for them

That said I don’t think they’ll remove them

[wintry bobcat]

Also I think you can do it with axe as well although it is not very useful

[olive yacht]

Hmm interesting 🤔

[pure patio]

You know, this is the first time I've actually done more than trivial use of the magic weapons, and I gotta say... I have absolutely no clue what people are complaining about with their magic skills. I am absolutely annihilating everything with magic and I haven't had to grind on any skills yet.

[unreal schooner]

That is exactly what some people are complaining about at least, not sure about other people though

[granite geyser]

People that think skills are literally everything and you literally lose the game automatically if you don't have them high enough

[mortal lichen]

fire staff go 🔥

[pure patio]

I haven't even built the dead raiser or the shield staff or anything yet, either.

[mortal lichen]

I use the dead raiser as decoration ||because it's pink||

[wintry bobcat]

Good thing it doesn't cost a rancid skull 🤭

[pure patio]

I also think a lot of people sleep on the ice assault rifle and don't understand how powerful it is

[mortal lichen]

After I got that one I went back to Yag to see how it would go, it was fun

[wintry bobcat]

yea it's 50/50 for me if I use ice or fire. just depends on situation

there's nothing as great as bombarding a seeker soldier that just went for a swim, with ice shards

(and it's funny how little damage fire staff would do)

[pure patio]

So far the most fun I have had with it is with the rabbits, and groups of fulings at night

[wintry bobcat]

it's pretty fun parrying a seeker and lighting it up with ice

ice staffs damage also benefits a lot more from upgrading

[rose swan]

Honestly, really like that suggestion @unreal schooner !

Maybe you could get a fun trophy at the end of it if you compete it, like ||a non-functional map you can hang on your wall 😂||

[silk halo]

lets be real it's more like an ice uzi

[silk halo]

i also think a lot of ppl sleep on blood magic and don't understand how powerful it is 😉

[karmic flax]

@opaque python i think the problem with making the smoke smaller is you'll need more of them, which will make it increase lag more

[opaque python]

honestly doesn't even need to be 10% smaller, it's really close

example: you have a 2m square hole in the roof, if you put beams lining it smoke can't pass through

[amber wind]

A hitbox and a sprite are not the same thing. Most hitboxes are invisible.

[short lynx]

@unreal schooner the addition to nomap I would like is some basic craftable compass. Maybe obtainable after killing first boss. Just so I can tell my direction at sea without using building pieces for that.

[ocean nest]

you can navigate by the sun and moon, but I would add advice from Raven about this if you turn on nomap mode

[unkempt raven]

Sun/Moon are the same as in real life, and there's the tree that goes east/west and is easy to see. Bad weather making navigation harder is as it should be, imo, though I wouldn't mind unlocking sunstones some point.

[unreal schooner]

Wdym they are the same?

[unkempt raven]

Rise in the East, set in the West, are in the South at noon. (Sorry Australia and other weird places, your northern Sun is just wrong. :p)

[unreal schooner]

Oh, the sun is the same in that sense, the moon is not though

[unreal schooner]

I never felt like i needed a compass, cuz almost everything in the game is a compass already. Even using building pieces for orientating is not that compulsory tbh.

[amber wind]

@unreal schooner So, I'm a no map no portal conversion enthusiast (part of the 1%). I really like how it adds that extra challenge of needing to really pay attention to your surroundings and not just rely on the map (which now feel like a cheat). Every time I walk away from my base, I realize that it may be the time that I get utterly lost and never see my base again, forcing myself to rebuild from scratch and then you end up painstakingly marking the landscape to help orient and find your way back. But honestly, I don't understand what your suggestion is. How do you want the no map gameplay to be changed? How would you prefer the worldbuilding to be changed? As it stands, your suggestions is rather meaningless, in my opinion. What specifically are you asking for?

[amber wind]

The sun and moon always follow the same pathway across the sky and don't slowly rotate or change as the number of days increase, yes? Instead of East and West, I've been calling it "Trunk-ward" and "Tree-ward" in my world, because East/West is kind of meaningless without the map. But I do believe the Sun rises Trunk-ward and sets Tree-ward. So that really should help me remember it, but I never do. heh heh.

I was also thinking that at some point I may need to physically sit down with a sheet of paper and to sketch out the world as best as I know it. Kind of my own hand-drawn map outside of the game.

[unreal schooner]

I deliberately did not go into detail about what exactly can be changed, since this list can be almost endless and each point implies a separate discussion. But I think you'll agree that not having a map radically changes how you explore the world and how you progress through the world. Now you are just playing a regular seed with a world modifier, and not a full-fledged nomap. You still kinda know what to expect and when, and it makes your exploration part pretty much technical.

[amber wind]

And how would you want that changed?

[unreal schooner]

First by changing how world is generated, it should be a fair bit different from how it is generated usually, much more free and unpredictable patterns, mb a bunch of variations among the same biome, or biome combinations, much less areas of the same biome, more transitions, no need to have that much of a meadows biome everywhere, etc

But it depends, depends on the overall nomap experience you want to get eventually, how drastically changed you want it to be. It should be all discussed. But the starting point for this discussions should be the fact that you don't have a map. And diachronologically it was never considered that way.

[unreal schooner]

You see, how one plays an average game with a map now, he just makes his progress through his world knowing exactly or quickly finding out what his next step is. The exploration part is pretty much crippled, in the end he can see almost narrow and straight paths on the map he followed to achieve his progress. Wo a map it's different, it needs a different approach, mb not that progress orientated, but more exploration orientated, finding good spots to settle (which should be much more difficult) as his next step, as a bridgehead for moving further.

[ocean nest]

And you need to make your own map (paint, gimp, paper and pensil), build lighthouses everywhere, paths and road sings

[brisk turtle]

@unreal schooner - consider the following:

Currently NoMap mode did not really require any development resources. Basically just a couple of menu options and a setting to disable a feature.

You're asking the devs to put a significant amount of development resources into something which is currently the absence of a feature.

To me it sounds a neat idea, but 100% something that would make more sense as a mod, vs. something as part of the main game

[unreal schooner]

Yea, i think i kinda reflected this in the suggestion itself

[brisk turtle]

Sure. Just sharing my thoughts on why I think you're unlikely to see devs engage with the idea the way I think you might be hoping 🙏

I think the devs like kind of "challenge modes", but they seem pretty uninterested in adding things for subsections of players e.g. builders, farmers, explorers

Nomap is like "valheim vanilla but an extra challenge", no real development resources required, just toggle the map off

[unreal schooner]

I would be satisfied with them just considering this idea;) and doing nothing actually

[brisk turtle]

I'm guessing "More love for nomap mode" is something that the devs could probably get behind, in some capacity

People frequently request "different world generation" though, and that is basically impossible. Like half of the basic layers of the game hierarchy I think are baked-in on current world generation.

If they changed world generation they would have to re-QA everything to make sure that stuff showed up in the right spots, etc.

Not impossible, but that's one I see frequently that I think maybe people underestimate how hard, I think, it would be in a game like Valheim

[unreal schooner]

I mean of course, any smallest change will lead to an immediate loss of balance and ultimately the fall and destruction of the entire gameplay tower, but i think there are ways to change world generating specifically for a nomap without critical consequences

[unkempt raven]

Not putting much work into various difficulty modes while the game is being developed doesn't necessarily imply a lack of interest, it may just as well imply a wish not to waste time on rebalancing several versions of the game when they can finish the game and then rebalance it for the various difficulty modes.
They've said in the past that dufficulty modes "may come later", I did not expect them this early in development, but doing them as simple as they are now made adding them early easy.

I expect they'll be looked properly at when the game is closer to being finished (though no guarantee, of course).

[granite geyser]

Smiffe has complained several times about the lack of time for pretty much anything

And that's just for a reduced part of the entire gameplay.

Imagine trying to do the same for several.

We would be having ashlands by 2025 minimum

[amber wind]

Like what?

[unreal schooner]

for example, change the rules for generating different items within biomes. Imagine having multiple meadows patches in your world, but there is only one patch being a real raspberry heaven, and once you found it it changes a lot for you. The total amount of meadows could be the same, the total amount of raspberries could be the same, but exploration wise it is already different

[amber wind]

So you want things to be more unique and less ubiquitous? I would imagine it being a pain to have to travel back to the same place every time I want to restock on raspberries. If you had to do this for every single item in the game, it would become a bit too tedious for my tastes. So maybe not unique, but perhaps more rare and less common would achieve the same thing.

But I'm also not convinced something like that would benefit only "no map" worlds...I think it might be better for any world. Depending on how you look at it. I think raspberries are also bad examples as they are a rather common item, and meant to be common.

[unreal schooner]

I mean it was a general example of how things could be changed in order to encourage nomap exploration, doesn't mean the exact same way. And you should not travel back and forth (as i see it) in a nomap as soon as you're comfortable to move further

[amber wind]

But if you only have raspberries in a single location/biome in the entire world, doesn't that encourage more travelling back and forth?

[unreal schooner]

Yes, i agree. But the initial point was just to make nomap completely separate from a normal game, doesn't mean normal game could not benefit from making exploration better as well.

[unreal schooner]

You don't know, that's the point, mb there are bunch of raspberry heavens around, you can travel back and forth if you wish, but i would prefer the exploration itself be more encouraged rather than grinding stuff

[amber wind]

I don't understand this lack of exploration you are referring to. I feel like the world generators are already pretty random, and perhaps the only thing that follows a pattern is general boss locations relative to the starting position, which (so far) have been that each boss has been generally further away from the center of the world. I'd imagine the last few biomes are on the very outer fringe of the world, which encourages exploration if you want to complete the game. If you want to just build bases and pick raspberries, you can pretty much do this anywhere you want.

[night cave]

ok, we get it, explore more lolz

after all there are those "easter eggs" the Dev's have placed here and there to find as well 🙂

[unreal schooner]

You're just retelling me the game how it is now, why would you? Now the game is driven by your progress, it doesn't matter which part of the world, or which one of multiple black forests you go, everything is the same, you can settle anywhere if your progress allows you, i'm talking about changing focus from progress to exploration more, so mb you'll need to explore half of the world prior to find a suitable place to settle, mb you won't even need to settle, mb you'll get lucky right from the start, mb you won't, more unpredictable worlds, which make you travel and survive rather than settle near the stones and only go for bosses in straight lines

[hexed jewel]

#suggestions message funnily enough, windmills do a decent job at this, cuz they attract mob agro, have decent health (bit of a pain to repair, because you need to keep an artistan table or at least mats for it handy) and the spinning windmills blades will damage mobs, given the low health of deathsquittos, pretty effective at killing theM

[amber wind]

So, I'm just trying to understand...but what I'm getting is that you feel there is no need to explore the world because the stones point you in a direct line to the boss locations, and everything in any direction you go is pretty much the same?

[unreal schooner]

Pretty much, yes, i just move gradually from the center to the edge while progressing and having a map. Wo a map it should be more hectic and more unpredictable, that's it. Not completely different. A bit different, because you don't have a map, you know? And now you still kinda have it, it's just hidden.

[amber wind]

So perhaps the idea of having the boss locations more randomly set anywhere in the world would be a way to enhance your experience? Perhaps also taking away any indication of where the bosses are located, so you just have to randomly search the world and stumble on them? Those seem like pretty easy things to implement...could even be a world modifier.

[unreal schooner]

It's the opposite, boss locations now wo a map are already a good example of how all the things could be done

They already make you go out and search for them

[amber wind]

You mean they are good enough right now the way they currently are in a no map game? Then what would you change to encourage more exploration if you already know exactly which direction you need to travel to get to the bosses?

[unreal schooner]

Yes, they are pretty good already, and, no, you don't know exactly where to go and search for them, so you need to explore, you don't need to explore to get 99% of the rest tho. Just find the first swamp you see and you'll probably find everything there, but not the bonemass, right?

[amber wind]

I see, so the idea is that you want materials and resources to be more rare and less commonplace?

Like instead of finding swamps that give you iron, ancient bark, oozes, gunk, bloodbags, and entrails, you find swamps that only have 1 or 2 of these things, so then you have to find specific swamps with specific materials in order to gather what you need to progress?

[unreal schooner]

Not only resources, biomes in general, i want more variations of biomes possible, smaller patches, more rare resources in general, but more of them in some random specific places, so yea, mb some hints on those specific places, more focus on the fact that you don't have a map, and just free to think how to survive

And not a complete overhaul, 90% is already there, just make 10% more thinking from a nomap perspective

[amber wind]

Yeah, I guess I don't understand the "no map perspective" and how it is different from the game with a map?

To me, the game is pretty much the same, except you have the added challenge of using landmarks and your eyes to figure out how to navigate the world. And I think this is fine.

[unreal schooner]

The main thing should be that you can't be sure in advance, mb you'll find all you need, mb not. Less strict rules for generating stuff granting you more unpredictable behaviour and encouraging ||exploration||

[amber wind]

There have been times I've entered a biome and it is missing things I need...so I keep searching for another instance of it to find the stuff I need. I think this is what you want...just more of it.

Would increasing the amount of stuff you need create the same need to explore? Or reducing the amount of stuff you get? It's all the same stuff, but you need to pillage 2 or 3 swamp locations to get enough of it to progress?

[unreal schooner]

I told you, probably you're playing it as a normal game, just with your map hidden from you. But that's on your side, you don't need to, you don't need to build roads, you don't need to be attached to a certain place, you should nomad more and progress on the go, otherwise i don't fully understand why you're enjoying it this way

[amber wind]

Sure, this conversation started because you made your suggestion, so I was trying to tease out why you are not enjoying it this way.

[unreal schooner]

I want devs at some point just to think about it from this perspective (if they never thought before), that's it, mb listen to those nomap knuckleheads a bit and think whether they can improve it a bit for them or not.

[amber wind]

And by "improve" I think you mean "change the game in a way that makes it more enjoyable to you"...hence my questions trying to tease out what exactly makes the game more enjoyable to you. 🙂

[unreal schooner]

It's not only me thing. I assume everybody who spent at least +100h in a nomap would eventually feel the same way

[amber wind]

Everyone is slightly different. But my original intent was to tease out more about your suggestion. Initially I read it as "make the no map game better", which isn't very instructive or constructive. My hope was just to help you tease out the idea more, give it some specifics and examples.

[unreal schooner]

Oh, i have my idea pretty much detailed, absurdly detailed i would say, ofc other people have slightly/completely different ideas, that's why i only suggested it as a general idea, for devs to consider what could be done in that sense and what not.

[amber wind]

Out of curiosity, did you play the game the 1st time with a map? Did you get very far before you switched to a no map world? I wonder how much of your no map experience was affected by this, if you started with a mapped world.

[unreal schooner]

My first playthrough was usual map and portals. Since then i'm playing nomap mostly, more than 1500h of nomap already fs

[amber wind]

Yeah, I feel like the first time through there is a lot of stuff you don't know so there is a bit of exploration because you are just wandering around to discover whatever is out there. But then once you know, it kind of ruins future play-throughs because you know what to expect, there is no sense of discovery. You've seen everything the game has to offer. I'm not sure anything will change this.

[unreal schooner]

A map seems so unnecessary now, but first time i didn't know the rules, so i was exploring them as well

Mb i just want that feeling of not knowing stuff and that is it.. mb

[amber wind]

Like the 1st time through I spent hours in the meadows and forests just trying everything out...but now that I've progressed into swamps, mountains and plains, all subsequent worlds I've pretty much blown through these biomes in the first hour or so. It doesn't matter how spread out or rare the materials are for them, since I know what I'm doing and how to progress, there is no sense of exploration anymore.

Many times I find myself stuck not knowing what I even need to do...so I end up just wandering around until I find something new. That sense/need is gone once you know what you are doing, and I don't know of any way you could bring it back, ever.

[unreal schooner]

Yes, so you see, it's not about the resources or their insufficiency, it's about new situations you could get yourself into and try to figure your way out of, it's about the unknown

[amber wind]

I don't think it has anything to do with map or no map...it's just that once you know what's in the game, you know what to expect and there isn't any more discovery. The only way to bring that sense back is for them to create new content for you to discover the 1st time through. Eventually you will discover everything...

Switching the order of how you do things, or what combinations of items unlock other combinations of items won't really change that.

[unreal schooner]

Right, but having a map makes it even more obvious, wo a map you at least have to find bosses or merchants by yourself

At least it gives you something in terms of unknown

And i would def still recommend playing normal game first, and only then switch to nomap

[amber wind]

But it makes it more a chore, and less of a discovery...you know you need to find the boss, you know you need to find the merchant...the 1st time through you have no idea there are merchants, unless you read the wiki or the Discord forums or you stumble on them...just changing their locations of them won't make it more enjoyable the 2nd time through, in my opinion.

[wanton edge]

Sounds like you have a very specific idea of how people "should" play no map mode.

A big part of why I like no map is because it makes roads, lighthouses, and markers have uses - it gives a reason for investing in infrastructure. First time I built a lighthouse in map mode it was useless and just made me sad that it did nothing, vs in no map mode everytime I see my base's lighthouse coming home from a trip its brings me tons of joy and they all help save my butt.

It changes how you interact with the world, you have to be aware of your surroundings at all times and engage a different part of your brain - no ignoring the game to stare at a minimap/map and beelining in a direction. That's the core part of no map I think.

Doesn't mean I have to be nomadic though - the resource juggle of trying to progress on the run stresses me out.

[unreal schooner]

Nothing can replace your first ever blind playtbrough ofc

[unreal schooner]

I was asked about my perspective on that, i don't care how people should play it, and my suggestion never said anything about it

[silk halo]

it's just replacing bee-lining to the map to bee-lining with a build piece/direction

[wanton edge]

Those are the times you can get badly lost - thinking you got the right direction and can just beeling it but then a storm hits, or it gets foggy, or you have a gnarly fight and you don't have your bearings anymore

[amber wind]

Based on what @wanton edge was saying, in a game like Valheim, you can do whatever you want. Nothing stops your from exploring the world if you want to explore the world. Nothing stops you from beelining to the bosses if you want to beeline to the bosses. I don't think anything needs to change in the game for this to be true. But in a no map world, some of things you do can also serve a purpose beside "I want to do it", which might make it more enjoyable for some. I personally like the extra challenge, but I don't think the game needs to be any different than the normal map mode when playing without a map.

[wanton edge]

I think what no map needs is something different for finding bosses from vegvisirs, in particular ones in dungeons/caves so you don't have to use the build piece hack to transfer that info outside.

Something to help with merchant finding - mostly I think having Hugin pop up and say "I see a fire nearby" or something when you lock in a merchant location would be enough, so you know when its locked in and don't go combing through every other meadow/black forest not realizing there was a little pocket somewhere you missed.

[amber wind]

So, I'm not familiar with the build piece hack to transfer info outside, but do you feel it is too easy to find the bosses in no map mode, or too hard?

[unreal schooner]

If it was a separate game mode, not just a modifier hiding your map, it could be different though. I just don't get the point of you writing all this, mb you just turn your map off for a couple of days, and then turn it back on, idk, it's on you how to enjoy your game. I saw people getting into nomap and all of them passed through the same stages eventually, like oh, i need a compass, i don't need a compass, oh, i need roads everywhere, then, oh, i actually don't need roads, i need to find stuff and bring it back to my base asap, oh, i don't need to bring it back actually, i can make it on the go, i can get lost, oh, i can't get lost, everything is the same, and so on. Everyone decides how to play on his own.

[amber wind]

And if the build piece hack is just to align a building piece with the direction of the boss, and then when you leave the dungeon, it keeps that rotation, then how about if, when you exit the dungeon, the building piece rotation just shifts to a random new direction. Would that make it better or worse?

[wanton edge]

Build pieces maintain their orientation - so if you take a ladder and spin it to point in the direction the vesvigir points you, then pull up the build menu again later, the ladder will point in the same direction.

I think this is a super lame workaround but its necessary for making use of vegvisirs in dungeons. Dungeon orientation isn't necessarily the same when they are up in the skybox as their entrance might suggest

[amber wind]

I see, so what you mean by a separate game mode is that once the world is generated as "no map" then there is never an option to enable the map...ever? But nothing else about the game needs to change? Would that do it for ya?

[unreal schooner]

It won't change anything, cuz eventually i'll just find the boss spawn itself wo any vegvisirs

[wanton edge]

Better and worse - no silly building piece hack, but cause then all the dungeon vegvisirs become useless and it can be very hard to find non-dungeon ones.

[amber wind]

Was the building hack the "intended" way to orient yourself to the bosses? Cause that seems kind of a lame oversight if it is the ONLY way, because remembering your orientation from the entrance is not accurate.

[unreal schooner]

This is too. Just make different more hectic and hardcore rules for nomap world generating, to feel like you have to survive more, there's nothing to survive through in meadows for example. But in a normal game it's ok. Once you're playing nomap, it's just boring already

[amber wind]

But what about all the people who just want the normal game without the map?

[wanton edge]

Eventually, but aimless wandering and combing same biome after same biome is a different vibe than trying to find something with a few pieces of information.

If you play that way then the sameness of the biomes definitely gets old faster
@unreal schooner (meant to reply)

[amber wind]

So perhaps the problem is that the world is HUGE and the amount of stuff you find in it is too limited?

[unreal schooner]

I think just don't remove those modifiers people already have

[amber wind]

Yeah, I don't equate "no map" with "more hardcore survival"...to me these are completely different things.

[unreal schooner]

Cuz you're talking about the modifier;))

Not a separate game mode

[amber wind]

Yes, from your suggestion, that's what I thought you were talking about too.

[wanton edge]

Aye, I think both for map and no map, more points of interest, more variety, having more difficult things spawn the farther out from center you get - all of that would help it feel like every meadow isn't the same and give more interest to exploration

[amber wind]

But you are really talking about a more hardcore survival mode that also doesn't have a map...

[wanton edge]

Also no, its just a quirk of the build system that people figured out could be used

[unreal schooner]

Yes, you can put it this way

Hardcore mode based on not having a map, not just hiding your map from you as a challenge

[amber wind]

What if they made the whole game world like 1/3 it's current size, would that also create the same effect?

[amber wind]

Have you tried increasing the combat difficulty, death penalty, raid rate and decreasing the resource drop rate?

[unreal schooner]

I've tried everything

[amber wind]

Is the game too easy still? Not challenging enough, or is it that increasing teh challenge to survive alone isn't what you mean by a "hardcore" game mode?

[wanton edge]

I don't think so, you only really need to see 1-3 biomes before you've seen everything you will ever find in said biome. Having variety based on distance from world center would make running into old biomes in new places more interesting. Nothing required, but something to help offset the sameness

[unreal schooner]

For example talking about dungeon vegvisirs in nomap.. you don't need them at all rather than coming with a hack on how to still use them. A lot of stuff could be reconsidered from a nomap perspective

[amber wind]

Like what? PS. Whenever you say "a lot of stuff"...I'm always gonna ask for specifics. 🙂

[unreal schooner]

Like comfort, like having that amount of water around, like farming, like starting in the centre of your world, like having exact rules for everything, like having different day/night cycles time, like some skills, like even traders at all, it's an endless list

[wanton edge]

Combing every biome for altars is fine if you're into that but can get old. Again I'd rather go on a pointed exploration with a few pieces of info than a mindless wandering

[unreal schooner]

Noone said that it should be a mindless exploration, i suggested using stars to find bosses as an example. The point is that the game was created with a map being available, so a map is already a part of its core, modifiers just hide the map with the rest being in its place, a separate nomap mode could make some things be different and be approached differently.

[wanton edge]

I get where you're coming from - for me its portals, they effect everything in the game hugely and I think often run counter to what the devs say they want from the game. I wish they would sit down and re-evaluate portals and their effect on the game, make sure they are configured to support the game they want instead of trying to balance the game around portals as they are.

But I think giving a specific fleshed out example would help folks understand what you mean better than "lots of stuff could change" and then listing the things that could change without saying what the change could be

[wanton edge]

Aye this is a good example of a specific change! I hadn't seen that suggestion in this discussion. That sort of idea is what I was getting at for changing vegvisirs. I've also thought of like temporary comets or something

When you say "don't use vegvisirs" with no mention of a replacement and then things like "I'll find the boss altar eventually without the vegvisir" it sounds like you're suggesting just wandering around as the alternative. Just a heads up on why folks might be struggling a bit to get what you are trying to suggest

[unreal schooner]

I've already spent couple of hours here just to explain a bit of what i meant, it could be an infinite conversation, so i just suggested that devs might think about it some time on their own, wo throwing my endless subjective details into them. I'm ok with it being the way it is now, but if someone asks i have tons of suggestions on how it could be changed

[unreal schooner]

I remember we had this portal talk long before, and i agree in general with your take on it

[wanton edge]

I hear ya, but I think it would help to have some specificity - its all been general. I'd like to hear a specific change you would do - say for vegvisirs or comfort or traders.

[unreal schooner]

Then you could just read my previous suggestions i made, most of them were about nomap

[wanton edge]

#suggestions message

One thing I like about the idea of stars or similar for finding the bosses is it gives a reason to travel/explore in the danger of night - shakes it up a bit so sometimes you have a reason to go out at night instead of always prefering the day

[unreal schooner]

And let's be honest, noone is reading this conversation or is about to read it, so it's a bit of a wasting time actually

[wanton edge]

I mean multiple people tried to engage you and asked for details on what your suggestion entails. Also I read this channel every day, including discussions I wasn't online for. I don't think I'm so special as to be the only one who does that

[amber wind]

I'm asking...but I'm not a developer for Valheim.

[unreal schooner]

Then i'll leave this counter for people who would read the whole conversation to press just out of sheer curiousity

[amber wind]

#suggestions message I feel like wards would fit this category perfectly...it's even in the name.

Maybe a lesser ward only announces...but a higher tier one can repel certain enemies...and the highest tier repels even larger creatures.

[unreal schooner]

I remember suggesting different types of wards already, for this specific purpose as well

[runic patio]

Make them like balistas and you'd need a trophy for them to repel them? Though with a tier difficulty as you just suggested as I wouldn't want to be able to repel trolls as soon as I've killed one...

[unkempt raven]

Make them like ballistae and unless you feed them trophies they repel the players as well.

[amber wind]

Well, I guess the suggestion was originally stopping enemy spawns...not necessarily repelling them from an area.

[runic patio]

Hmm, well, I believe they already stop spawning; I've seen them used for that purpose [in several youtube videos], unless that was changed.

[unkempt raven]

Yeah wards do stop enemy spawns.

[stiff stag]

Various base objects prevent spawning in an area around them.

[amber wind]

I could see the base item (like a crafting bench) stopping spawns, and the ward increasing it's radius. But campfires don't require a workbench, and that's why they are typically the go to for stopping spawns. Perhaps they just need to have it so campfires don't stop spawns, but workbenches and wards do this instead?

[unkempt raven]

I'd like to see a larger area spawn stopping item though.

[stiff stag]

Wards just happen to be one of those, so nothing special about them specifically.

[pure patio]

Campfires are one of the first things you build, many players will build them even before they make a workbench. It makes sense for the fire to prevent spawns.

[amber wind]

why?

[stiff stag]

If you're looking for a logical reason for something to prevent spawns then you're overthinking it.

[pure patio]

If campfires don't prevent spawning, then nothing should. Campfires count toward base structures that enable raids, and if they do that then they should also prevent spawns in their radius like all other similar structures.

[amber wind]

I don't follow your reasoning, Pita. If the rules can be whatever we want them to be, then why can't certain pieces draw raids AND not prevent spawns?

[runic patio]

I actually find it a bit dumb that "non spawner" items draw raids - essentially this mean players spamming these structures can pretty much avoid raids altogether...

[pure patio]

Because inconsistency is terrible for gameplay. If something is going to behave differently, then there should be a strong gameplay reason for it. Campfires should be able to be built without a workbench because of their use for keeping warm, etc., which is why they're different. Similar reason to why you can build wisp torches without a workbench. But as for blocking spawns, there's no good reason for a troll to be able to appear right next to your fire.

[amber wind]

I agree, there is no good reason a troll shouldn't be able to appear right next to your fire.

[pure patio]

For someone that isn't deeply knoweldgable about the mechanics and trying to spawn-block a whole area, it is a very reasonable balance. The game isn't built around all edge cases, the core loop is based around the general case.

[amber wind]

Perhaps there is some unspoken rule that if you block spawns, you make raids?

But why does stopping one cause the other? Why not have areas where you can have both at the same time? This is the logic I'm not understanding.

[olive yacht]

I don't think consistency is something valheim takes into consideration. The makers of valheim simply made the game take more time to progress That's it. It's not a survival game like ark or Conan. In fact I wouldn't even call it a game at all.

[granite geyser]

I was going to say this initially but the suggestion itself implies that it might go beyond what wards do

I asked @wanton atlas about whether the 32m radius wards have also affect spawns but he hasn't told me anything...

||||

[amber wind]

Yeah, from a comment above, it sounds like the wards already do this...I guess my question is is the area it blocks spawns the same as the bubble it produces when a mob attack something? Couldn't you just make a bunch of overlapping wards to prevent a larger area from spawning things?

[granite geyser]

If they do, they would be much more effective than work stations as spawn proof methods and makes them functional even in solo games

[runic patio]

You can, and you can even make the "hover" since they don't get destroyed when removing their support so they don't get hit by ground creatures...

[amber wind]

I really like the idea of segregating the spawn prevention thing to large base areas (something that requires a workbench to build). It just seems like building campfires everywhere breaks that because they can be placed anywhere with or without a bench. Making them require a workbench seems like overkill to me, so the next obvious solution is just make them not stop spawns.

[runic patio]

(again I didn't test this, so unless something changed)

[amber wind]

The most obvious gamepiece that prevents spawns would be the player themselves...probably in a smaller radius.

[wanton edge]

A larger area spawn suppressor would be nice, for stopping random enemies from spawning within your walls. Spawn suppression in general feels like something exploit inclined, but also necessary. Not sure if larger radius changes any of that?

[amber wind]

So while campfires may not stop a troll from spawning next to it, a player sitting next to a campfire would.

[silk halo]

nope, only the standard 20m

i've followed the convo but i still don't get what the issue ppl feel is with the spawn suppression mechanics

[amber wind]

But I guess it's all moot as if campfires didn't do it, then you wuld just place workbenches everywhere instead. 🙂 So 6 one way half dozen the other.

[silk halo]

exactly benches cost 10 wood, all you have to do is get wood

[amber wind]

Yeah, for me when I saw the ward, that's what I originally thought it did...prevented mobs from entering an area...I was greatly disappointed when it just announces that something is beating down on your base.

Perhaps "alarm" would be a better name for it.

[silk halo]

it also locks doors and chests

but it's a glorified alarm mostly

[runic patio]

I read it as a "repelling" given it already stopped spawning, lol.

[silk halo]

you can already stop spawns happening in other ways as well

[amber wind]

lol...in a single player world, locked doors and chests are pointless.

[silk halo]

no base item needed (aside from workbench which you later remove)

[amber wind]

Which is probably why I never use wards...they seem kind of pointless. 🙂

[granite geyser]

Did you test this? If it is the case then it's disappointing, as I said it would make wards functional even in solo as a way to spawn proof areas without having to place work benches as they would be more effective

[silk halo]

all it does in reality is put off players dipping in yr chests in mp

[silk halo]

it's on the wiki

[amber wind]

I would make wards be powered...you feed them something to power them up, turn them on, give them a shield force that the mobs can't get through until they attack it enough depleting the energy to "break through" the shield.

[silk halo]

improved function of wards has been suggested (by me and others)

so far no dice but i hope they get looked at at some point

[pure patio]

Wards are brilliant for decoration

[silk halo]

agreed

[granite geyser]

It doesn't state anything about spawn prevention tho.

The closest paragraph is about the ward's radius but that one seems to be for the opening-lock, terraforming and glowing ticks part

[silk halo]

spawn prevention is based on whether it's a base item, and wards are

and all base items give 20m of spawnproofing

[amber wind]

Base items are anything that require a bench? Or just anything that is stationary once placed?

[silk halo]

i have an out of date (probably) sheet of which ones qualify

[granite geyser]

This kinda sounds ideal...

Maybe black cores, just to lock it behind endgame, although they're limited per world and the energy is depleted so idk.

Maybe we get an unlimited supply of black cores in ashlands

Dark surtlings

[granite geyser]

Makes more sense, I was reading the ward's article, didn't think of the base items one

[honest glen]

it's specific items--i think there's 10~ish. Things like Workbench, Fire, Tiki Torches, etc.

[amber wind]

Or maybe what it can repel depends on what you feed it...not necessarily like the balista, but more like surtling cores put up a basic shield, black cores put up a more powerful shield that blocks more mobs or has more shield strength.

[honest glen]

for example, a janky work-around is building torches inside of your beams.

[runic patio]

Again like balistas, why not make the wards take the trophies to repel each kind. To make it "worthwhile & hard enough" require an entire stack of'em

[honest glen]

an entire stack seems like a lot

[amber wind]

So more arbitrary rules "just because"?

[honest glen]

Not sure what you mean--like it's been coded "just because"?

[amber wind]

Yes...is there some kind of logic to differentiate which items are base items and which are not?

[runic patio]

I actually tried the torch-beam solution this morning and it didn't work; a troll immediately destroyed it while I was placing my second one lol.

Maybe I was just unlocky tho.

[honest glen]

I think typically it's tied to crafting items, used to ALSO establish a base. When a specific set of items (crafting tables, for example) appear within a radius, it counds as a base, so the it ALSO creates the posibility for a raid

[silk halo]

"just because" =/= "game balance"

[honest glen]

so i don't think it's necessarily "just because"

they chose items that would typically be used indicating that it's a home base, and therefore something to be raided

[runic patio]

To me I understood the game as "any light emitter + workbench"

[silk halo]

yes, the ones the devs feel like should or shouldn't be xD

[runic patio]

and frankly I'd add "bed" to that list, but I'm not sure that's true.

[amber wind]

heh heh...that's not logic...that's willy nilly. I'm perfectly fine with willy nilly, but it does allow for any suggestion to be a valid argument. IN the end "because the devs made it that way" is the only argument that matters.

[silk halo]

to be fair they are quite open usually about balancing decisions and there are lots of factors they are considering which we never touch on

[wanton edge]

For me I think its that sticking campfires or workbenches around to try to stop spawns inside your base walls feels lame and clunky and ugly, and its easy to miss a tiny section and get random spawns - especially if you're trying to minimize the # of workbenches/campfires you put down cause you don't want to go digging pits and such to try to hide them.
Something that feels more intentional & immersive and less like a weird game mechanic would be nice, like a specific item with a larger radius

[honest glen]

yeah that's how i feel too--part of why i suggested it.

[amber wind]

True, and "balanced" can be a wide range of opinions. Heh heh, for instance what I would call the perfect amount of challenge I feel others would call wildly and unfairly balanced.

[honest glen]

there's solutions, sure, but they're pretty uninspired.

[silk halo]

passive mode and raids disabled exist

[amber wind]

HERE HERE! Ward bubbles seem like the perfect item built with intention and a visible set radius.

[runic patio]

I still want raids wtf?

[honest glen]

that feels a bit extreme, though. I'm fine with raids/spawns/wandering in. But having to perfectly Ven-diagram my base to ensure some fuling doesn't spawn between campfires and kill all my stuff feels tedius, rather than fun.

[wanton edge]

Not at all the same! I want raids, I want hostile enemies - I just don't want random greydwarves spawning inside my walls

[runic patio]

I don't want to play another game, I want to fine tune this one. Mods exist too, that isn't the discussion...

[silk halo]

raids that can't spawn anything anywhere near yr base coz you have a 200m spawnproof item slapped down? xD

[amber wind]

heh heh, I"m just the opposite, I want that troll to spawn on top of my hot tub. SUHPRISE!

[runic patio]

I beleive in context we're assuming raids aren't affected; we're only discussing "natural spawns"

[wanton edge]

I'm not talking about raid proofing, I'm talking about having a nice open base that I've put a bunch of work into walling off to keep it safe - just to have random greydwarf/fuling/whatever spawn inside my walls and attack my boars

[silk halo]

okay so what size radius of spawnproofing do you believe is acceptable?

[honest glen]

I foolishly built a base ontop of an old Fuling camp and it highlights how janky/difficult it can be to get the spawn preventers right.

[amber wind]

Those poor boars...like troll magnets every time.

The ward's bubble radius I feel would be acceptable.

[silk halo]

+12m

[amber wind]

And visual.

[silk halo]

does that apply for all base items or only wards?

[wanton edge]

That seems like a good place to start. Having it be visual when you place it like workbenches for sure, but I don't want it visual all the time

[runic patio]

Imho the question isn't the radius, but rather if you build an enclosed area, the area inside should be spawn proof. This is a reasonable assumption...

Arguably this could get tricky to code, so some other method should probably be used, however... r/n I can't think of a "easy way" to suggest.

[silk halo]

also might cause unintentional lag issues

[honest glen]

What if this "base designation" item (Town Bell/Banner/whatever) was also what the raids/spawns were trying to destroy? Destroying it spawns more enemies, make raids more interesting? Might be overcomplicating it.

[amber wind]

lol...everything might cause unintentional lag issues if incorporated badly.

[wanton edge]

You mean like enclosed by walls? That does sound like it could tricky

[silk halo]

okay then, imo a high likelyhood

Smiffe would know with more certainty, and i'm sure we've discussed it and he said the same

[amber wind]

I feel like having overlapping circles per item is a lot simpler than it discerning what area is enclosed and what is not. Which is probably why they coded it the way they did. My suggestion is just to make the ward have a larger and visible no-spawn radius...since it already has an visible circle built into it.

[wanton edge]

It would feel more thematic than campfires too

[silk halo]

i just think that if they were going to get any changes at all they would have been made by now and it's beating a dead horse

[honest glen]

to be fair, they've gone back to older biomes and added items.

[silk halo]

yes and spawnproofing radius has never been touched in all that time

despite many suggestions/convo's

[runic patio]

The mechanics are still jank tho.

[wanton edge]

I think they are focusing on finishing the remaining biomes before returning to do balance/tweaks for the whole game.
End of last year devs were doing a new playthrough partly to see how the game feels in its entirety and make notes on things that might need to be tweaked/changed

[amber wind]

@silk halo I will keep suggesting and keep that hope alive until either 1.0 or I'm in the ground!

[silk halo]

oh me too xD

[runic patio]

Admittedly there are so manny suggestions in #suggestions I hardly believe they'd go through the entire list...

[honest glen]

that's fair, but it doesn't mean it's outside of suggesting/discussing. Again, I built a base ontop of an old camp and it really highlights not only how difficult it is to stop the spawns, but also how weird (and hidden) the spawn system is.

[amber wind]

But there's really only two types of suggestions though...good ones (my suggestions) and bad ones (everyone else's).

[honest glen]

for example, I had 3 lox, 4 fulings, and 3 deathskito's on this tiny little peninsula spawn, lol

[silk halo]

i just think devoting too much time and effort discussing red herrings isn't really helpful

[runic patio]

The goal of tthe discussions here is usually to fine tune a request in a way that would be "feasable", "understandable" and ideally "programmable"...

[silk halo]

i'd put it in the category of "would be nice if we did see a change but i'm not holding my breath as it seems pretty set in stone at this point"

[amber wind]

True, nothing's making you contribute here...also nothing's preventing you from not contributing here too. So I'd say put as much time as you want into whatever you want. If you think it's a waste of time, just stop doing it.

[runic patio]

Frankly r/n my feeling is the entire #suggestions / #suggestion-discussion are red herrings... They are doing their own things and I don't feel they're listening much...

[olive yacht]

@amber wind opinions are like orgas**. Mine only matter and I don't care if you have one

[amber wind]

nods only time will tell.

[rose swan]

To be fair, we’ve seen a handful of suggestions added to the game. I think snap cycles was one, ballistas, and definitely more. There was a list before all was lost.

Oh, the hexagonal gate I suppose. Much requested feature.

[silk halo]

yeh they do get added from time to time

[honest glen]

and they wouldn't have two channels dedicated to it, if they weren't interesting in hearing from their player base

(because they seem cool)

[runic patio]

Sure, a lot of companies do this to have a canned response to filter suggestions into a single pipe they can safely ignore and tell people requesting stuff to go post in the recyle b... Discord channel...

[amber wind]

It's not a request...it's a suggest.

[silk halo]

just feels like certain areas like balancing are absolutely off-limits

[runic patio]

I still like to have an area to discuss stuff personally regardless of whether they read so it works for me..

[amber wind]

I don't feel like it's off limits...just maybe not high priority.

[silk halo]

i'd rather it be stated somewhere, a kind of "suggestions guide" or something to help players who want to help from just stabbing blindly in the dark

[amber wind]

Does IG ever do more directed interactions? Like are the players testing the new biome doing surveys or anything like that?

[silk halo]

as part of their internal testing? not sure, but they do drop into voice chat occasionally informally to see where we're at with things

[pure patio]

Yeah. That's the whole player test beta thing. Nothing internal, but there is currently a beta running with engine upgrades and bug fixes, and there will be a public beta for the Ashlands as well.

[amber wind]

I guess in my experience, they usually have beta testers or a PTR where they first introduce the new content to a small and limited audience to get their feedback before it releases to the majority of players.

[pure patio]

You can go to id:customize and add youself to those things if you are interested, but it's not suggested if you haven't fully completed the game already

[amber wind]

Yes...that's why I probably won't join, I'm still slogging through the game, in the joys of 1st time playthrough. But yet, if you want to have more input into the game, that's probably the better option than shouting into the dark of the suggestion channel. 🙂

[silk halo]

yeh the PTB channel has been invaluable, in all of our efforts to spot bugs and keep the game from being a bug fest

we need some order in the chaos xD

[amber wind]

I think it's "shouting into the void", screwed up my metaphors. 🙂

[silk halo]

even a short list of areas they'd like to see more suggestions in, and one with the opposite

[amber wind]

I dunno, it's dangerous bizness telling people to stop suggesting things about certain areas...risks losing out on an amazing suggestion. Better to just be silent but encouraging of all.

[stiff stag]

The other thing is the average person won't even be aware or will just ignore it anyway.

[silk halo]

the current wilderness

[amber wind]

Yeah, if the goal is to get suggestions, then telling people to stop suggesting things works against that goal. If the goal is to just ignore suggestions, then it's just easier to not say anything and ignore the suggestions. 😉

[silk halo]

what we end up with is a pile of suggestions and no clue how viable they are

[amber wind]

Well, it's up to us to think of new suggestions....it's up to the devs to decide their viability. I don't think there is anything wrong with asking for the impossible, as long as you're not expecting it to happen.

[silk halo]

i don't think stating what they can't or won't do is dangerous, they had a NO list already

[stiff stag]

The problem is even in situations with tons of documentation on stuff like that, people largely ignore it or don't know it exists, leading to all of those suggestions happening anyway.

[amber wind]

Plus, I feel that certain members of this Discord take certain glee from telling people about how their suggestions just "ain't gonna happen".

[silk halo]

most players come in earnest and suggest what they think are improvements, you can tell mostly if they've actually played the game and how far

and i'm sure they want to formulate suggestions that can actually work and be added reasonably, so some of guide would help with that, for players at all stages of the game

[amber wind]

I guess...I feel like the suggestion channels is meant to cast a wide net. If they wanted everyone to narrow the scope to some specific things, then they can do that more directly.

I could be wrong...it happens from time to time.

[silk halo]

just intolerable

what Subject says in the pin here is exactly right

[hot willow]

Iirc smiffe said they check it twice a day

[silk halo]

indeed, what we need is just narrowing down a little on what still has potential

[rose swan]

Would be kinda neat if really popular suggestions (say 70 👍) could be put into a special channel. But I understand it’s not a popularity contest.

[wanton edge]

I didn't take what @amber wind said as talking about votes at all - just about the small but loud subset of people who love to chime in with "won't ever happen" in a confrontational/hostile/consistently-rubs-folks-the-wrong-way manner.

Anything that encourages folks to discourage other people from engaging with suggestions/discussions is something to be avoided, IMO

[amber wind]

Yeah...I think 1st the suggestion needs to grab the attention of the devs and kind of pass their muster first. The popularity of it is secondary to that. Plus, it's like 0.00000001% of the people who play the game voicing their opinions here, so I feel like it's not a very good indicator of popularity to begin with.

[rose swan]

It’s really about how you say things, instead of what you say.

[silk halo]

true but on the same hand ppl want their discussions to be fruitful and productive, as with their suggestions

[amber wind]

Also, @wanton edge I take pride in my accumulated downvotes. If my suggestions aren't getting downvoted, then it's not a good suggestion, in my opinion. 😉

[silk halo]

if you log in and see the same red herring convo's all the time it's just a circle....

that makes me want to disengage

[amber wind]

I dunno...if it's the same people making the same arguments that's one thing. If it's new people making the same arguments as the previous people, that could be an opporutnity for improvement.

[wanton edge]

I mean, I think if something is discussed a lot there's a reason for it, and that should investigated. And exactly, just because its the same topic doesn't mean there aren't different people engaging and the opportunity for new ideas

[silk halo]

the arguments in some areas do advance, from time to time

[wanton edge]

You are an exemplar for that! Sometimes I find myself thinking "wait, how would TooMuchDogg say this..."

[honest glen]

is that why there's the recycle emoji though?

[rose swan]

Haha I appreciate that! I always just try to think, “how would I like someone to respond and how can we discuss this in a way that we’re working together instead of against each other”

[silk halo]

partly, and partly discussing here as part of that

[rose swan]

Discussions are meant to build each other up and be fruitful, not smother the spark of creativity.

[honest glen]

true. I can see how repetitious discussion would be annoying

[amber wind]

Just remember that what might be repetitious for you, maybe be the 1st time for another. So I feel like there are 3 ways to respond to a discussion that's already been had: 1.) Agree with them and add your support. 2.) Disagree with them and state the reason why you disagree. 3.) Ignore the conversation because you've got nothing new to add to it.

[silk halo]

i always try to give a fair, balanced, impartial look at each point and judge it on merit alone

[honest glen]

changing the subject, I feel like they should add Troll Saddles

[amber wind]

Speaking of repetition...anything that uses troll hides is good in my book. 😉

[honest glen]

Tier 4 troll armor, don't sleep on it 😛

[silk halo]

4.) close suggestions channel

xD

[amber wind]

That's the nuclear option. 😉

Troll Hide wrapped burritos.

[honest glen]

What about a troll hide tent, lets you sleep/rest out in the field

similar to the ||firepit||, but with sleeping

[amber wind]

Troll hide air balloon or Zeppelin.

[silk halo]

for now, but it will soon be the organic option

[amber wind]

Troll hide trampolines that limit fall damage from greater heights when you land on them.

[honest glen]

Troll hide Awning, quickly prevent rain fromputting out a fire away from home

[amber wind]

I think it would be great if in multiplayer, you and like 2 other players can put on a troll suit and walk around impersonating a troll...then you can sneak into the troll caves and steal the treasures without aggroing them.

[honest glen]

Troll, or three children in a Troll Trench Coat

[pure patio]

Vincent BusinessTrollman?

[unkempt raven]

It struck me earlier that I can't recall seeing doors with windows being suggested. Combining wood and crystal to make a door with a window in it would be neat.

I want one for my kitchen entrance. :p

[granite geyser]

I'm very surprised that hasn't been suggested (probably)

Although it might enter into the very universal "add new build pieces" type of suggestions

[unkempt raven]

I do think it falls under "building pieces that would be nice but adding all of them would just adds bloat rather than actual usefulness", but I would still like it.

[granite geyser]

Better wait and see what ashlands will bring.

Kinda overwhelming to know they will add +50 build pieces.

I'm wondering now how many mistlands added just for comparison

[unkempt raven]

It's probably been suggested but I can't remember seeing it.

[honest glen]

I thought mistlands was about the same

[granite geyser]

Tho I assume it's just not including the build tab, everything you place with a hammer counts as a "build piece"

[honest glen]

Plains had a lot, too

[unkempt raven]

Everything you build is a build piece, just like every item's main purpose is decoration.

[honest glen]

with all the tar

[granite geyser]

Well, if I wasn't too lazy to launch the game, I'll go and count them (it takes too much time to launch now due to ptb issues)

[honest glen]

also have Horizontal Carved Darkwood Dividers been suggested? feel like it's odd it only comes in one orientation

[unkempt raven]

If I'd played Mistslands yet I could log in and see but I haven't and I don't want to spoil stuff I potentially haven't seen (though I don't think any exist) by enabling nocost and looking properly. :p

[rose swan]

Really hoping we see some Ashlands spoiler ||fortress|| themed pieces

[wanton edge]

Maybe unpopular opinion, but getting lots more build pieces in the last couple biomes always feels sad to me. I love building but I like builds that serve a purpose, so building something so close to the end of the game is unsatisfying - I don't feel like I really get to use it if that makes sense?

[unkempt raven]

Spoiler themed pieces, so like something to put at the back of your car(t)?

[stiff stag]

Something I've wondered is how the hammer menu will be changed to account for new pieces. As is it's limited on how many pieces can fit within a given tab, so what will happen when they add more pieces to a tab than it can currently support?

[amber wind]

MOAR TABS

[unkempt raven]

Could be neat to split it into categories, but the easiest is probably just to add more rows to the tabs.

[amber wind]

Scrolling pages.

[granite geyser]

Scroll up/down and that's it.

They could also add a "favourites" tab mechanic so some are easier to find but I don't expect it

[amber wind]

Force everyone to get bigger monitors.

[unkempt raven]

Taller monitors.

[granite geyser]

They add dual wield build hammer so the build interface is twice as big

[unkempt raven]

Just turn the monitor sideways.

[wanton atlas]

https://tenor.com/view/magic-confetti-awesome-gif-11884906

[granite geyser]

So eitr-powered hammer. Got it

[wanton atlas]

now your making stuff up as usual

why not use the 2 handed hammer we gave you?

[granite geyser]

You said it, not me.

So sledgehammer's secondary attack opens the build interface?

[wanton atlas]

you didn't know that? 🤔

[granite geyser]

And everything you build with it is twice as big

[wanton atlas]

x2.5

[honest glen]

the build noise is just 2.5x louder

[granite geyser]

The build cloud is twice as big

[wanton atlas]

and dust cloud ofc 2.5x

[honest glen]

add some more screen shake, and perfection

[wanton atlas]

troll slam shake ofc

[granite geyser]

Now we can build bases for giants

[honest glen]

and "The Ground is Shaking" notification appears briefly

[wanton atlas]

all to save the instance numbers ofc

[amber wind]

You use the iron sledge when you want to move that building piece just a tiny bit lower right?

[honest glen]

Typically, my use case for it is to not fully understand how long it takes to swing and get mauled by 3 wolves.

[amber wind]

I'm pretty sure that's its intended use. ;)

[rose swan]

@hoary pollen everything appears to be on track, there’s currently a PTB out in preparation for Ashlands 🙂

[granite geyser]

Nah, I'm sure that after over a year of development they went "Meh, fuck ashlands, not gonna release it"

I'm sure they sure love the idea of having wasted all that time developing the (possibly) biggest update yet...

[arctic wharf]

Fingers crossed everything doesn't end up plastered over youtube thumbnails again prior to the actual official release, but I am doubtful hehe

[hot willow]

Actually, it'd be kinda nice to have different tiers of hammers for different types of forges.. Like the black forge or artisan table could require a black metal hammer or an iron hammer

[wanton edge]

For accessing build pieces that require those forges, or for building the forges?