#town-square
1 messages · Page 2 of 1
3 fps at most
How long does it take for Apple to approve an update? Current version for iOS is 1.10.63
a bajillion years idk
1.10.69
Also are votes in #events channel still in progress?
I'm exictedjpg.
Will there be only one winner or like 1st 2nd 3rd etc.?
Event submissions are great but only 3 of them receive a prize
How you know that? You just joined the server
inb4 read all the message in #events
wait what
so the channel is hidden when no events I suppose
huh so how do they know that
there are many events like that
🤔
The channel is hidden until all the votes are done
oh
When the votes will be counted and everything is done then everyone will see it
Only the Voting Allowed role can vote
u did
haven't really been active since like
it's been a bajillion years
well at least active for an extended time
ofc I was pretty active active during the development of my commercial plugin back in November
but that was a short time
oh that plugin pack
since then it's just inactivity
My city Seanabar
Question for everyone : What your Opinion about Same Apartmarment/House Neigbourhood (like Clone Buildings Neigbourhood)?
In Theotown?
Depends what type of house
Yes!
Depends of the context for the city
The decoration
Nature
Roads
If its a Soviet city
It not really limited for soviet cities as far as i seen, American Neigbour hoods are Quite the same houses
Should I restrict the industrial zone to a particular region within the city?
No that won't work
build parks, and add trees
try dsa pollution walls
What's dsa
I believe there's also a plugin that helps
that would be the agency game extension
Oh
you can start building in it's category
Hmm
DSA is cool but it take too long for Rocket to be build
Add more oil resources
Mmm Oil
Ptag supply's
Want to get to know how to get your DSA supplies? Make sure to build oil based industries near your DSA launchpad that way you can get the supplies as soon as possible. Just note that it will still likely take a bit of time!
Also @mellow kettle this should be Supplies
🇱🇷🇱🇷🇱🇷 oil
I think its fuzzy
Ptag sup
Want to get to know how to get your DSA supplies? Make sure to build oil based industries near your DSA launchpad that way you can get the supplies as soon as possible. Just note that it will still likely take a bit of time!
I mean it works, but it's grammatically not right lmao
But then again, I'm not know for my grammar
yeah, I fixed it by creating a new tag and removing the old one
Congratulations to those who won
heck yeah my plugins were featured in the 1st place winner
Dang this is third place? Imo it looks better than those two
epic 👏
to be honest i dont like it
it feels lazy
Not really in favor of it
@grizzled rivet congrats 🎉
in suburbia and soviet style khrushcheyvka blocks? fine, but on urban neighbourhoods its not a good look in my opinion
Thankss
Ye it looks like a Soviet neighborhood
the statue is very out of place
Don't think so, still it's beautiful
Well I think we can all agree that all 3 are amazing
Yeah
I wanna live there
Hey
Is there a plugin that makes me able to send money betwren cities
hiiiiii
Online, or single player
Single player
And please not the plugin that wants 50 diamonds
Lmao, but idk any plugin like that
but the only way I can think of that is
the bank ig
the one small 1x1 building
that maybe is the 50 diamonds building
Poor residental ppl
lol💀
Yup you pay 50 diamond to place it
I want poor people in my town to build farms for them
hm
No suggestions?
not for now 😭
yeaaaaa
maybe i should touch grass
I honestly don't know how many votes I got
Damn I got none
No way im in third place
Congrats
thanks
holy crap
Morning
Morning
Morning
Morning
Morning
Morning
Hi yall
hello
hi
typical american suburbs with their giant parking lots in the commercial areas
I have that in one of my cities but I don't know what they are called
shopping center?
shopping plaza?
strip mall galore?
idk either 🥴
I call it commercial suburbs
Still working on my big beach side city, then I'll go around the rest of the map and dot it with smaller towns
Any ideas on custom buildings I should add?
I already got several
FD
PD
Medical center
City park
Embassy
Construction site
Any ideas?
I think I did a decent job in 30mins
Because of personal preference
Its been 500 years daddy, i really really miss you.
That would be more appropriate if the landscape was apocalyptic
I don't get it
Look at the ingame date @scarlet pilot
wow
For Some reason, whenever I try to import files to the File Manager, it goes: ..................Wot?
What? I'm not Spamming Dyno
Add a crane
How does a year in theotown last on our time?
Use a stopwatch or somethin'
algun español ??
A big port ig
1 second = 1 day in theotown
Oh ok I calculated so i got it
Helo avryone
It goes what?
Raaah
I have a question, should i buy both the city packs since I have 600+ diamonds
close other apps and if that doesn't work, then it's time for an upgrade bro. time to get a phone with at least 4GB of RAM
anyways, i wanted to ask why does the plugin button not work sometimes? i click it but nothing happens and the menu button for the plugin page doesn't work sometimes either
What's a good crane plugin?
Yes
I downloaded full hd version and they scammed me. I cant see my city
How to.solve this
Don't
why
@cedar current
?
what
any need to say that
Read the #rules
Still I need to say #rules ?
Spontaneous autism
It do be like that
I thought that question mark was a 7
why is the game not acknowledging commas there lol
Idk
Sheesh, how did you get that many diamonds?
interesting amount of diamonds you got there..
especially the number 8?878
8878 diamonds
i am pretty sure its just gloiched out
tf is gloich
glitch*
109k inhabitants, 8k diamonds
see now
well
it's not a scam because you bought it for free
Also
U can just delete it
I love how some people fell for this
Hey, I've got autism! And I'm proud of it UwU
How's this?
Also added some condos to the beach front
looks like somewhere I'd see in Miami
That looks a bit better
Probably add some kind of beach villa
For the rich people
Well it's not really a low density city. It will get less dense towards the back of the city when it turns into suburbs. Also, my new mall!
Can someone give me a tutorial for making plugins on the plug-in creator
I wanna make an ICBM silo
Or if it even is possible on phones
Uhh, you can read the pins on #plugin-discussion
How do y'all like my city so far?
Awesome
looks interesting
nice
Doesn't look like real one you can make zones automatic because every one of them being skyscraper is not too good
Also why there is a hole in middle of it one park is enough
looks great, highly recommend the US styled buidlings in the plugin shop
Hmm? Where?
Thank you guys
this is the daily reward, i earn 250 weekly
my people don't live in the leadenhall building i have built over 50 social housing, towers and caravans in other places
but in some plugins i coded to have 10000 inhabitants
Anyone want to join my custom region?, I made it on RC stage revamp, the region is called Blook island
On the grind, i appreciate that 👍
Wrh they removed city showcase
The #city-showcase is still here
Idk but im not seeing it
A bit unrealistic tbh
Since SM malls have some kind of gate
Alternate answer: i have no idea why they removed #city-showcase ,today is a bad day
bru
Nooooo, how am I supposed to share my city now 😢
i said "nvm i see it now"
Deal with it or cry about it 🌚
@hot crypt why is there so many Romanians in this server
😭 😭 😭 😭
Bcz we will conquer the world
We are everywhere, you can't escape from us.
The average Romanian citizen
And decided to call it a country
Don't go on Political
Average Romanian citizen in the 1942.
And I saw what you are trying to post here and #general
Heres some pics of a small box where ppl can live in 👍 👍
Temporary housing
Commonly built for construction workers to live in
Shush, its a smoll boc wher pl ken lif in
But it can also be used by refugees
woah look my house
Personal information!?!?!? 🤬
My reaction to that information
Nooo my house is smaller 😢😭😭😭😭
Unfortunately, youre gonna have to live with that
😭
Any last words
@stoic flint wait I saw your avatar somewhere.
It's better if you don't ask
Ok.
Cocacola
India village
when cocacolastic is real:
I'm so p00r
Please give me diamonds 😭😭
Bruh
indeed
Small Giveaway, 7.27$ worth of diamonds. :)
Quick before someone claimed it.
|| psl1p1k0 ||
550 
Free diamonds
Anyone recognize this?
Top down camera gameplay update!!! (Real)
Had to edit it
Ill just guess what hes trying to say is "cool edit bro 👍👍"
But yea, #rubbish-bin for memes please
I've replaced in game music with ost from worker's and resources:soviet republics
Let's not talk about it here,cuz the rules.
Oke dms
ah thx
I was just about to ask the title of the song
Soviet electro i guess.
Am i the only one who has a problem in Age of Sails?
AoS is broken as of rn
It was announced days ago in #builder-content
Oh ok
Aos looks fine to me
Is TheoTown also available on Xbox, PlayStation, and Nintendo Switch, if it was made using C++ instead of Java?
No
Only pc and mobile iirc
I dunno about that
If JustAnyone is online I am waiting for his answer
TheoTown was made in Java, there's no C++ port.
If it was made in C++
Not if it has a C++ port
sorry for offtopic but minecraft bedrock (made in c++, ported from mcpe, and also available on mobile and consoles if you remember) can load 96 (for example) chunk render distance faster (without lag) than java edition
minecraft bedrock's lagest audiences are from the consoles
What if you (and/or Lobby) could rewrite the whole TheoTown but from C++, instead of porting from java, and publish it on consoles' digital stores (if Microsoft, Sony, or Nintendo approves it)
That would require enormous work to support platforms which are likely not worth the investment as a whole. At that point, it'd be better to build a new game from scratch.
If TheoTown was, since TT66 update, also made available on Xbox and PlayStation (a seperate C++ version of the game), It would have over or almost 15M downloads from the consoles themselves and also 7M plugin store downloads from all the plugins (downloaded on the console versions) combined
I thing you (and lobby) should start working on a new game (not really a new game, but a c++ version of
theotown) from scratch, if both of you have enough time, now.
yhem
Bruh
I just reinstalled Theotown. It only restored half of the content I purchased
That's why I make a copy of my plug ins so that every time that I have to reinstall the game, I don't have to worry about downloading every single plugin again 
I'm not talking about plugins
Oh well, I'll have to log in every week just so I can get them back
:pain:
@woeful burrow how many diamonds did you use?
Ñ
Beonk
Is this how i suppose to contact forum admin?
Well that's what it says
Alright time to make script.
Ok
What I've got so far
Good job I like the detail one thing tho you could add parking spaces, a few don’t over do it but a few parking spaces on the commercial plots
What's with the interchange
Well you got some towns in America that are highway towns
How i can "fix" some translation on Indonesian language?
Do i need github to do that?
Some of the translation contains some light political Jokes
And does the translation should be "Propper" without containing Jokes?
(Exception for translated Jokes from the original language)
Sorry if my question is confusing
Yep #translations
Just noticed the changed amounts
How did it take me 6 days to realize the change amounts? idk
it was changed like in February
almost half of year ago
Wow
really shows how inactive I've been with this game in general huh
lmfao
although I was stuck on like some very old version because Google Play hates me
until a few days ago
auch
yea I was stuck on .45 until .68 dropped a few days ago
have you seen that the drafts loading now its more faster? (same its changed from February)
ye I noticed a slightly faster loading time
actually .45 was in February
huh how did I not notice back then
I guess I really was inactive 🥴
this looks interesting on Inverted shader
hot day
LOL shader is literally heatwaves
looks like openttd lol
You should make a Theotown Acc
That is a very compact airport lol
I'm on a land budget 😂
Milltown full view
how
Added parking spaces, sea wall with walkway and more houses
Parking spaces were of @candid drift request. But I took it further than just the commercial area and added some to the school as well for teenagers to park their cars
I've come to love my little stop light/ highway town
"man i hope i hit 200k inhabitants this week"
Theotown:
Oooh too bad buddy, looks like your town's been hit by the plague. Better luck next week
Shoot I forgot the sheriff's office and fire department!
My bad fog mystery like pic
Already did
How do you get the fog?
Does anybody get the feeling that the population is not realistic?
Like i have a prety big city and it has like 50 000 people in it, witch is not that much
Well big cities don't always have every housing unit being lived in 24/7.
Sometimes rooms stay vacant for a while before their bought or rented
Yea you're right
At least it's not like Cities skylines where a single story house constantly houses 5 people
uhm there are mods to fix that
realistic population mod
Cries in Xbox Player
L
Well I have a computer, but I had so many mods, C:S refuses to load now-
how do i get people in theotown to use the trains
no
it says 0 people waiting
and 0% usage
even though it connects 2 of the most imperial parts of my city
Tourism intensifies
gives me commie block vibes
Bro
Our Beach
YES
YES YES YES
how would i know
Coal
One second Comrad, let me dawn my GP-5 and we'll explore Chernobyl together
Yes I actually did buy a Soviet Era gasmask
||Asbestos||
And it's original asbestos filled filter
Is it made in bulgaria?
Marcato decals+ pack (forum)
Nope, actually manufactured in Soviet Russia during the Cold War
I bought it from its original owner
More blocks
Nice
Ay look new plugin, finally a train management!!!
Idk,i Forgot whats its name is
It's this
Wonderful
Any Tips?
Looks like dead town, add people/cars
Which one's better, 4x4, 5x5, 6x6 grid?
Why are you making grids anyway
This is an Island there are no cars here
Cuz its the easist way to make a town
Привет🖐
🖐️
Easiest, but not the prettiest
Do you like my little train station
🇺🇸
?
American in design very autocentric.
If there's a parking lot that's bigger than a train station, store, mall, buildings, suburbs, and town. Which mean it's from the USA 100%
Parking lot bigger than the station itself, very merican (also nice diamonds)
Maybe I can add a fueling pump
Yes
Add a train yard where trains can rest
You need another hangar
Man TheoTown seriously need to improve/update their land terraforming tools. It's soooooo slow
We need something similar to city skyline
Definitely
Man I miss my old phone so much. Due to how much space that was on it I could fill a whole big map no problem. But now I can't visit some of my old cities online because my tablet can't handle it.
Buy new phone then 🥴
ikr
True
but heightmaps
It's a better option but it still isn't perfect
You'll still need to terraform the landscape
and have a lot of parking space
I think i need to fill the empty spaces here. But the problem is that it is close to the industrial area and my polutiom wall price are expensive
Im gonna build a new city but idk where to start
Build a road

theotown
Guys some tips to build good road
@young hull
Because now it’s terrible
@weary peak
Please
Guys
First of all
Make a better interchange
Second of all collect ur daily reward
Third of all get ph roads plugin
How I can do that
?
Question when I comes to a light rail system which do you guys think is better? One going through the city or one going around?
Guess just one rail cutting in mid or a bit on side
Does somebody knows why it makes weird water floor?
@candid drift @gilded hinge
no.
nice
Be polite :)
I have this weird cloud like thing that's showing up over this group of trees and it disappears when I zoom in but reappears when I zoom out.
aos
AOS?
Age Of Sail Plugin.
Just adding clouds as decoration.
Its from AOS
maybe you added it unknowingly
good luck deleting it
This dude still doesn't get it do they ._.
Beginner moment
Also charge your godamn phone
👍
light mode
Yes
Fr
light mode 😵
ahh you see...
my phone's battery is dying since it's from 2015
and Im getting a new iPhone some time in the future
when? depends on when the iPhone 14 is released
iOS 🤮
my eyes
I can't use Admirality Ship Pack because it makes my game lag 🥲
Bruh how
Idk
Did day night feature got remove?
No
Just check the settings
At gameplay
Are you running it on a nokia???
Nop a Samsung A20e
.
.
Specs?
How do u use aos
?
How do I make plugins on PC?
Same as mobile
I mean your phone specs
Specs?
How come mine isn't?
What's the map seed?
It is
hey thanks for the map
no problem
For real what is specs?
How the f do you not know what specs are in 2022
Because I'm not English and I don't know what is Specs in my language?
@brave echo I mean phone specifications
I'm not a native English speaker either
Wait a sec
im new to this game so I was wondering if anyone had any tips for making a town look good, cause mine just look like terrible looking squares
make the squares the same size I think
I could try and help with road layout/interchanges if you’d like :)!
I'd love the help later, currently sort of busy, but once I'm more available I'd love to get a bit of a guide aha
Lol alright :)! Take care!!
Dual made this just for the people who are trying to build a beautiful city.
How to build a beautiful city 101 by DualHD (re¹⁹post)
- Build a better road layout
- Manual build
- Get a alot of plugins
- Use Google Earth for inspiration or look at cities in #featured-cities
- Use grey graphical shader (settings) optional
- Don't use zone
- Don't make the city just skyscrapers/very dense (unless you wanna make Dubai or HK or Tokyo or a very dense city)
- Add more diverse environments? (Desert, swamps, jungle, mountains, etc) this is optional btw
- Recommend using Sandbox Mode
If you can't do all of that then that's alright.
Delete unused plugins
Idk maybe you downloaded the old version
Idk
Maybe
Read the posts in #tips-n-tricks
Guys some super road examples
PH roads
Ooo, but how are you supposed to avoid using zones? Don't you still need like houses n stuff?
Manual building
oh okay
thank you :)
downgrade the game version
Don't mind me
Ok that first picture is a crime against humanity
600 years in jail
What in the world is that
spider in airport
You haven't updated the game perhaps?
It's just a matter of time untill it does I guess
Are you on pc or mobile?
Interesting tips. Perhaps I could make a city-building tips too.
TheoTown Should
Add Some A-Frame
Houses For The Residential.
Can You Give An Exemple Cause
I Don'T See What Is It
Can you explain?
Like They Should Some A-Frame Houses The Triangle Houses.
Sorry That It Took So Long To Text Back I Did Not Hear The Notification Sound I Am Getting Used To My IPhone 13 Pro Max Still.
Why do you write all your words with capital letters?
The Autoroles module is disabled in this server.
dont spam it in all the channels
My dad always said, "If you think of something that you want very, very seriously, it will materialize."
Damn hes right
Sorry to ruin your dream but when you made that suggestion the train management plugin was alredy there
I didnt know the existence of the plugin
04:56
So i think is a win
definitely
GMT-4
ok
Goofy ahh phone 
ok
Please do not spam the channel, @vernal meadow
Long time no see
It's been a long time since I've played Theotown, but I've made a comeback
Y'all might remember me as Savage King.... I'll try to make a city, bigger than 1.9 million people
oooo
gonna be excited to see your progress then :)
It's been about 3 or 4 years since I left this game.... I'm trying to work on it here and there, started with the base square, going to try to get to 100,000 by the end of the month
100% realistic
What plug in is that
Same as ever given or Maersk cargo ship
Ok, but it can resist shark attacks?
Sip
Sp
Seen this at work today
I make car parts
Why is there a radiation symbol on my bin to put the parts in?
what to do I built up many streets with a residential area but they are not built up I play on Uber mode
Even in uber mode to get buildings will need services grow
that is, it is necessary to build schools, police, firefighters, an ambulance?
If you want everyone to population then yes
strangely, I built hospitals, police and firefighters, even schools, but buildings are 2 TT or the first level and only a few buildings of level 3, and still there are few buildings, although on another island where I have 1.7 million inhabitants, everything is in skyscrapers, etc. and here everything is different
you should wait
Wtf am I looking at
zoning at its finest
Plug in for the diagonal plane
"plugin name?"
Yes
that is, according to the game time, I have to wait 30-40 years? i.e. 30-40 minutes?
It's a sign of too much zones and not enough demand
Big troll
that is, for such a demand, 1.500.00 inhabitants are needed? or more?
Check that
ok
You just really have to wait
Is that good
Long enough
Okay
Guys
bro
Some parts are better to be desired but overall good
6.5/10
☺️thank
It's a 9 for me
insane
Is it just me or do you hear some kind of beeping
It's not edited by the way
It's in game
flashy edt
Here's a longer one
There's also the problem on when I'm recording for longer than 10 secs my recording audio goes static
😅
And it's only theotown that does this
The sound ☠️
Any tips on how to make a realistic stadium
Ah that is made by my plugin, railway crossing noises.
@stoic flint ^
Maybe turn off music?
You can't, unless you go to sound in settings, there's plugin option.
One sec,lemme make a screenshot
"10 hours of theotown occasionally broken by railway crossing sounds"
Can someone add a mod, that like- adds more variety to the emergency vehicles of the game, like a medical fly car, different fire trucks and different types of police vehicles?
let the bad comments commence
rotation aware is not possible with the kinds of buildings I made lmao
What plugin?
Hello
my plugin the Philippine Central Bank(Bangko Sentral ng Pilipinas)
for v2 I'll add an extra floor on the first building lol
Hydreus obviously needs some lecture about hard it is to just fuсking made the frames for a plugin(unless you're good at it ofc).
Chaos
That's #869597141851578428
How is a single word a meme?
amongus
nah #869597141851578428 is best described by the word u said, C H A O S
I agree with you
Ptag roles in #bot-commands
Found the perfect seed
Looks extremely similar to one I got
No
Hi
No compris
@hot crypt I know but you can still get his plugins on Theotown forums (I said that here since my cool down isn't over)
@hot crypt you don't need to.
Just click the person's name and it will take you to their account which shows all their plugins
I think i need to fill the empty spaces here. But the problem is that it is close to the industrial area and my polutiom wall price are expensive
you called?
btw i want to ask
who here have a pc that can play theotown
but dont have theotown on their pc
I have a pc
But no theotown yet (maybe in 1/2 years)
i see i see
Yea... when I will be on my self at college then I can buy theotown
Timezones moment
hi
'ello
Sorry ma boy but you'll have to speak English here
I've been thinking.
DSA should add an NDRRMC (National Disaster Risk Reduction and Management Council) to prevent military service missile accidents.
Unless it's the SDI.
Amogus
bankruptcy imcoming
So. Whaddaya say, pickle man?
Bro sold his soul
Hopefully the devs add this, we will have a SimCity 4 type of game.
There are 2 SimCity plugins lol and soon a 3rd lol
Yeah.
Or you can download road plugins that have diagonal roads
Mate.
There's plugins that are diagonal.
As long as there are plugins for diagonal roads, the dev won't do the vanilla ones soon.
Supply - Demand.
So that means every plugin creator has to update their plugins?
Just for the sake of no confusion, yes, they do.
okay
how lol
simcity 4 use 3d models
it just have a isometric camera
that's why it can have shadows
how can theotown have that if it's just some png coded into a game
Hello
No way we would have a 3d update
TheoTown files are located under such directories:
▪︎ Windows: C:\Users(insert username)\TheoTown
▪︎ Linux: /home/$USER/TheoTown
▪︎ MacOS: /user/TheoTown
▪︎ Android: /storage/emulated/0/Android/data/info.flowersoft.theotown.theotown/files
By default you should be in /storage/emulated/0/
Reinstalling the game for Android will delete all files, unless you decide to keep the files when prompted by uninstaller.
Alternatively, you can access the files through in-built TheoTown file manager, accessible through the in-game menu.
You can find your plugin, music, region and city files there as well as logs for debugging purposes.
ongg how could you not. found it!!!!!!!!!
file manger!!!!
.
Ye
Another residential district with an electrical components factory nearby
Bike way

Bike
Is the plaza too big?
Bro why does it hurt my head its like these videos that u watch and then u feel like u on drugs
Too big and useless
Im probably gunna remove it
oh god
What plugin is this?
Side parking i believe
bro, fr?
long
Mini island
what to do I have literally 0 poor residents and houses are only 2-3 levels and because of this there are few diverse houses as well as 3 levels there are still few buildings
...what?
You know.
There's something called "Low Residential Zones".
Not the dense ones.
You place those ones down.
Tbh, you can just manual build.
Vonarks A320 plugin
MrPeanutsArchitect is AFK: sleeping - 7 hours ago
Its in his server
how it all breaks down, then the inhabitants of the poor 0, then people are not added at all, although there are schools, education,firefighters, doctors,police
You have to have zones for them
That happens when there's a lot of schools
It's a feature
Holy that's amazing
Thank you vm
your city looks impressive
the second pic tho concerns me since there are parts that can be the cause of congestions
The sound is still not disappearing after I turned off the audio for the plug ins
He should've used diagonal roads
What the hell it it fu*king beautiful and it also non-sense
Then use other version of the building, waypoint does have the same frame.
Oh wait nevermind
I just needed to restart my game
Name of the plugin?
Above picture is at the start of july the bottom one is now
The workers doing some work
The workers back be gone
I wonder if my samsung s6 tablet can run regions more bigger than 12x12
People leaving me after i thought of destorying the factorys for them to build at the harbour
i lost 2k people
Not worth it
im broke
Take a loan
Also because i need more space
I feel that theres to much pollution
I got 1000 diamonds just from daily rewards and upgrading bus stations
Yes
DISGUSTING
PRISON?
No i send my people to the gulag
What airpurifiers all i see are batteries
I feel like removing the factorys and building some in a different location
@grim gulch
How do you get people to work in other areas
After you delete their working place
What do you mean?
Well i want to move my industrial area
That's gonna take a long time
I've never actually moved my whole industrial areas
Oof
I useally pre plan
But i now have to move everything
This feels like im playing city planner the more i play
interesting economic analysis over a 3-4 day period with my experimental city
Bro got spreadsheets for a game
When you get too immersive playing a game
Which I can kind of relate to
immersive? i've been playing the game for 6-7 years lmao
For me 5 years 
i still remembered when county designated special country roads and highways were a thing
