feedback-discussion

[hot vigil]

Yeah no

[flat sandal]

yeah yes

[hot vigil]

That would be bad for people who plays together

[flat sandal]

you don't have to to it straight away

anyway

random thought

[open carbon]

It would incentivise teammates to leave the team to save their hunters, or set aside time for that, which they could spend playing with their friends

[hot vigil]

Yeah, dunno, don't like the idea forcing players to play certain game-modes.

Well "forcing"

is a big word.

[open carbon]

Yeah they could just leave them dead

But my point stands

Time spent in quickplay is time not spent playing with teammates

[hot vigil]

oh yeah, it would make randoms play less to revive their team-mates.
"He can just get his guy back in quickplay".

[open carbon]

Oh not just in randoms

I can think of some people that would say that to their premades

[hot vigil]

That too

[flat sandal]

idk, getting left behind is already quite rare and the ppl who do that are probs a bit special^^

the pain when you realise they are actually doing it 😭

[open carbon]

I'm wondering. What reason is there to play with randoms, ever?

I can only come up with answers that would be sad

[severe vault]

i never played with randoms in this game. Mostly solo, sometimes with a friend

[open carbon]

Honestly, first thing I'd do with a random would be getting them on this or Psycho's discord and join Voip and tell them to use #lfg in the future

If their friends aren't playing with them, I wanna help them make new friends here. Worked for me

Making new friends I mean

[subtle dust]

@trail carbon I made that suggestion with the clue rework a few days ago. Don't know why yours has so many downvotes. #game-ideas message
I think I would be a perfect way to make the game more immersive. Maybe you were not specific enough about how the clues should work. I wouldn't touch any of the redglow, conduit and other mechanics. Just change the looks of it and change the behavior of the map. No out-greying anymore, no big and small bounty, just 1-3 bosses, many clues and some pencil strokes on the map. That would really feel like hunting. No more running into dead zones of the map, the map would be played as a whole. Fights could happen anywhere you want. You would approach every compound with all senses on alert mode, listening for the boss or for other players movement. Right now hunt is just sprinting to the clues, go to lawson, prison, testemonial ... every time, because they're double clue compounds and the ways you run are the same every game. The change would spice things up, making every bounty hunt more interesting. Kepp the outgreying map for quickplay, as it makes the most sense there, but not for bounty hunt.

[open carbon]

It doesn't have that many downvotes, I thought so at first too, then I saw that the reactions were in different order than usual

I think it's an idea worth entertaining and from the looks of it, most here think so too. Yours might just've gotten more traction for better timing when posting it and such

[subtle dust]

I see, now it goes up! Very well Then it was just the same 5 ppl who downvote everything.

That changes would be sooo good for the game

[junior reef]

doing it in menu not by the additional button is how you get killed 100% times when you stop to mute them they ll just rush you and kill you so i belive quick bind is a better idea than what is in the game now.

[brisk timber]

While i thought about reworking the normal clues to how the rotjaw clues work the one thing that a major downside is that if thr clue points in a certain direction its probably really easy to just find the boss compound by tracking one straight line on the map

The compounds are probably to few and to big to work like this

Thats how it already is with rotjaw that you can sometimes pinpoint him down by one or two places just by 1 clue

[unborn dagger]

You could probably have it where the clue makes a "spreaded trail" in a direction instead of pin pointing it down and then as you grab more it pin points even further.

[open carbon]

That should work yeah

[mighty nova]

@frosty cypress the m30 lufftwaffe is not the gun featured in this game the doppelbüchs is. Combination guns existed at the time this game takes place, the idea is that this gun could have been made by somebody in this time period.

[royal horizon]

@ornate elm Nice bait

[hot vigil]

@broken moat Just wanna inform you that FMJ and long ammo can pen stone.

[hot vigil]

At this point I know fucking idea myself lmao.
Think the way it "works" is that you can pen stone corners.
So less solid wall and more clipping corners.

But then again, big dynamite works like this:

So who the fuck knows

Just wait until you learn about the haybales :))))))

Yeah, my conclusion is that Hunt is consistently inconsistent

[inner smelt]

Please, can you guys change the rain contract as like before, we dont want to play rain on rotation, its always rain, 5-6 games on strike rain map coming??????

[carmine needle]

It'll get changed back, it's just on a higher chance right now. Will agree that the odds seem kinda absurd since we ran 5 last night and got it 3 of those times. I enjoy the rain though, so not complaining too much.

[inner smelt]

its too much sound man, cant hear anything and heavyrain make the screen green like heavy foggy

[hot vigil]

That is the point

[inner smelt]

do we have too, it is same as inferno. so disturbing and we dont have to.

[hot vigil]

Think inferno was a little more tiresome, but rain have an ebb and flow with the rolling stroms.
I actually prefer it rain over fog maps now

@brisk mantle good idea, just not something to post in the suggestion ideas channel :)

[little carbon]

Idk, it really doesn't add anything meaningful to the game. It doesn't even reduce dead zones as you are saying. You can have a much better estimate after 1 rotjaw clue than after 1 normal one.
(And removing dead zones wouldn't even be a good change. The point of the clue system is to funnel people together quickly so that fights happen.)

The current system is quite efficient at what it does and gets the game moving

[brisk mantle]

Oh! I'm sorry :S, first day in Hunt's Discord... and don't speak english very well... XDDD sorry
What channel do you think I should put it on?

[hot vigil]

Tbh not quite sure, guess #latest-update-discussion?

[brisk mantle]

Maybe... Do you know if there is any way to contact them directly?

[quick raven]

What if location had to be triangulated?

[hot vigil]

I can see one good thing about changing the clues to the rotjaw kind; currently you can anticipate a lot of player movement based on what zones get greyed out and even some people that have memorized certain patterns and can predict where the boss it based on grey-out zones.
That said if every clue became like rotjaw, we should have drawn little arrows on our map, so we don't have to remember it always.

[hot vigil]

Well, you can do it in a way where it gives an estimate direction. So it pointing north means it "it is within a 80 degree spread from this clue towards north" and every clue you gather narrows down that spread to be more precise.

[azure elm]

I like that.

[carmine needle]

I'd love to see the clues changed to be more like rotjaw's- makes more sense, you could add little notations on the map for hunters so if you forget, you can see the direction of the clue.

Ah you beat me to it

[hallow pasture]

as if it's so hard to locate, open the map.. yep.. it pointed towards the south, face south... look what water is over the south... take a guess where it would be.

probably the straight line you're facing from the clue you just hit.

[carmine needle]

Yeah, we just stand directly behind the clue, and use my character's arrow and the direction to get where she may be

[hallow pasture]

untill that line you draw in your head while opening the map hits water

[hot vigil]

As wrote below "you can do it in a way where it gives an estimate direction. So it pointing north means it "it is within a 80 degree spread from this clue towards north" and every clue you gather narrows down that spread to be more precise."

[carmine needle]

"Oh, she may be by pelican or by moses...."

[hot vigil]

Mind you we are talking about normal bosses not gator.

[carmine needle]

Yes

[quick raven]

I"m thinking something like if you go to heritage, you have this on the map. The other clues outside the range don't "vanish" so you can effectively triangulate it down however you want?

[carmine needle]

I'm saying they could change the normal clues to be similar

[hallow pasture]

Ye, I meant like if you'd make it like rotjaw, it's not gonna be a real big difference to track it easily

[azure elm]

But the cutout would not appear?

I hate the cutout.

[quick raven]

Well, I'm just limited in what I can do in Paint via this work laptop 🤣

But the idea is that, yeah, you would have a visual indicator, but you'd still have to use that to decide "what's the actual best place to go to triangulate and eliminate spots from here"

So by the time you, for example go to three locations, you'd have something more like this (again, with the understanding that this is a mock-up in Paint)

In which case, it would be Reeves Quarry

[hallow pasture]

I would've gone mostly a straight line down as you made the first image tbh, most locations along the way are barrily or not in it anyway, it'd have to be far down.

[carmine needle]

To me, kill the cutout. have the clue point directly- in theory, you'll still have multiple compound options. Add some kinda scribbled marker to the map that gives a direction if needed. If the clue happens to be directly next to you... would not be any different then with the cutout. Most experienced hunters can use the cutout to more or less know the best 3 compounds after just 1 using how the cutout works...

[quick raven]

THe big difference here, IMO, is that if you look where I went... the "excluded" area doesn't just magically become completely worthless the instant I get my first clue... I still had to traverse through the whole map and explore it all (probably more random engagements) instead of just beelining straight to the "good" part of the map

[carmine needle]

but knowing EXCACTLY where the compound is will speed up hunters meeting there to fight,

lol spelling

exactly

[quick raven]

The thing is, if you do a straight line, you know exactly where it is in 2 clues.

[carmine needle]

so? You basically know where it is within 2 regardlesss

[quick raven]

My idea is about not turning it into an even FASTER speedround

But actually make you have to engage in more compounds

[hallow pasture]

wouldn't it just be fun to spawn random in the map instead of on the edge, many lairs are on the edge imo.... some team is bound to spawn right on it.
If you'd spawn random in the map, every team will have to choose 3 to 4 ways to go.
And perhaps do that triangle idea with it.

[carmine needle]

except, with the triangle, if I saw it pointing south... i'd go south. not out west or east.

[quick raven]

I.E. if I go to Heritage and Pearl.... and it's just a straight line, there's no way to misinterprt that being anywhere else than Forked River

[celest spindle]

believe it or not but you can still do that even with the current clue mechanics

[quick raven]

You certainly could

[celest spindle]

i do it everyday, its not 100% accurate but 80% of the times it works

[hot vigil]

Think would be better just to do an arrow on the map tbh.
Just keeping that "spread indicator" either vague or not displayed at all on the map.

[carmine needle]

Yeah, I like that

[celest spindle]

nah

[quick raven]

I think you missed the part where I said in the current mechanic... half of the map becomes worthless (in terms of hunting clues) when you find your first clue. I'm proposing keeping the whole map open, and you determine, as a player, where on the whole map you want to go for the next clue. What would be the best place to specifically triangulate the location.

[hot vigil]

So here clue 1 (blue) didicate that it CAN'T be any of the top compounds.

[celest spindle]

yeah but that would make the game way too fast paced

[quick raven]

....

Keeping the map OPEN instead of forcing you to converge the instant you find the first clue... would speed the game up?

I'm not sure I follow that logic.

[celest spindle]

yea it would since there will be clues that havent vanished

for example lets say you get a clue in kingsnake and all that top left area would vanish

you'd have to walk all the way over to the bottom or right to get the next clue

but with your system you could get all 3 clues within 2 minutes

[hot vigil]

Don't think I understand how you understand this?

[celest spindle]

brugh

[quick raven]

Currently, you have 12 players...
And if you all eliminate 6 compounds with the first clue... all 12 players converge within the 6 compounds..

If you have 12 players....
And you don't eliminate 6 compounds with the first clue (my suggestion)... all 12 players still scatter to all the compounds.

It is intrinsic to that very mechanic that it actually draws the game out.

[hallow pasture]

If you'd pick up the blue, and head right, all you did is eliminate the right upper 2 places, all other places can still be a lair, none of that field will vanish.

[quick raven]

You are literally keeping the whole map in play rather than breaking off entire swathes of it when you find a clue.

[hallow pasture]

It could take you up to 5 strategic clues to figure out where to go

[hot vigil]

AND counter-act that people have started to learn the clue layout

[carmine needle]

Except I doubt most folks would go out of their way to go away from the direction the clue points- it makes more sense to head down the point than to go left/right- after all, most folks want to get to the bounty/banish first

[quick raven]

People have already started to learn the layout of the suggestion I made that isn't even in the game yet.... which multiverse are you playing the game in???

[carmine needle]

No- he's saying that with the current cutout system, you can know the final boss location with how the map cuts out- at 1 or 2 clues.

Play enough maps, see enough cutouts... can know where the boss is just by the cutout.

[quick raven]

I actually agree 100% with this approach. I just ended up using the version I did to help make it clearer that within a handful of clues, you'd have one area that's definitively within all the indicated areas.

[quick raven]

OOOH, yeah, I agree.

That's why I think keeping the entire map/clues available with an alternative approach is much better. Keep people guessing more, make it a bit more methodical from the hunt perspective, and make the game more of a race than a sprint.

alternative approach - even if it's not the exact one I said 🤣 It's just an idea and I'm sure there's at least one other one in the world that's just as good 😛

[hallow pasture]

If you'd go from Kingsnake, to Stanley coal.. you eliminate the top 2 possible lairs, head down to Weeping stone, If it's not pointing left or down left, you'll still have to figure out where it'd be, all you eliminated then is Kingsake, Stanley, Heritage, Pearl and Moses, already 3 clues on the way... so there... it can take way longer for all teams, leaving way more room for battles.. And everyone will have to keep a move on.. in a way it could have potential to speed the playstyle up a bit.

Does this sum the idea up a bit.

[hot vigil]

Yeah and here is an example how you cannot brute force this kind of system by just running the edges picking up clues.
Here we start at Pearl and goes to kingsnake and even after all those clues it could still be in 3 different compounds.

[quick raven]

Exactly! ❤️

[knotty ore]

What a load of garbage. I'm literally presenting an argument that benefits everyone and you strike it down with completely irrational mumbo jumbo. Picking conditions in some way benefits everyone. The only thing that can happen, like it already has, is the minority of people who enjoy night maps will experience a complete ghost town because no one wants to play those conditions. That only proves my argument, though. Some conditions are completely unbalanced depending on your setup and people hate that and will not play it.

[carmine needle]

Yeah, I agree with this. I hate the cutout- my buddy and I know by the map cutout where the boss is after 1 clue most times. I'd love to get arrow markers on the map, but leave the map open... so if you DO want to get a clue at the top and then bottom, you can... could even still have the clues active (maybe not worth anything after 3, since with 3 arrows, you should know) Wouldn't be much different than the current system- you see the direction you need to go, you go it, you stop at compounds on the way. you'd still run into other teams following the same path, and at the boss... just kills the cutout

[hot vigil]

And ofc it can be adjusted with how gradually more precise the direction indicator becomes if people feel like they are getting lost too much.

[quick raven]

It really does! The most effective way to eliminate areas would, in most cases at least, require you to traverse wide areas of the map, go through/around numerous compounds to test it out. All the while crossing paths with other hunters.

[twin comet]

The game does thus with blackouts you just have use your brain a little to guess with pretty high accuracy if you play a lot

[hallow pasture]

sounds lie a fun idea

[twin comet]

No. Get first compound. go to double clue. Find boss in 3-4 minutes.

[hallow pasture]

still, there'd be spawn related issues as I stated before

[hallow pasture]

fine, no doubles then

[hot vigil]

Is that less time than how quickly find bosses at the moment?

[hallow pasture]

rofl, no

And besides, double clues are so close to eachother, on the map it's not going to impact the idea that much

the angle doesn't improve that much

[twin comet]

That’s the system in place, it works fine.

[twin comet]

The angles are already in the game. You guys are arguing about a system that already exists.

[hallow pasture]

wake up bro, we're not

scroll up

[twin comet]

The whole point of the gd game is to listen to possible player routes, use the map you have left to figure out where they’re going.

[hallow pasture]

that's just what the idea eliminates

scroll up bro

[dull mason]

Ive briefly skimmed over the conversation so sorry if I've missed something, but does this proposed change actually have a reason to be implemented? Is there a complaint about the current clue system?

[hallow pasture]

in a way yes

but for me, it's combined with spawn issues

other thing entirely, which we don't discuss now

[quick raven]

I think someone up above showed how that would be avoidable.

[hallow pasture]

ye, i did

[hot vigil]

So one thing that is start to happen is that people have grown so experienced with Hunt that they can guess where the boss is after the first clue and how the map is darkening.
More so, it can be argued that darkinging out areas just removes play-zones too early and downplays the feeling of tracking and hunting a target.

[quick raven]

For some, it's that they don't like the map being cut out specifically
For some (me), it's that the open-ended approach to finding the lcoation instead of your map giving you a neon sign circling the area where it is.
For some (also me), it's that every time you play, you go to the first clue, and within about 45 seconds of starting the round, you've eliminated like 6 compounds, all their clues, and make half of the map worthless (for purposes of hunting the bounty) for that round.

[hallow pasture]

Specially true on solo bosses, it deletes so much more, well.. if the second boss is just 4 blocks, doesn't really affect that much.

Just don't go there

On nearly half devided maps with 2 bosses, it doesn't affect much per clue.

[carmine needle]

Honestly, yes, the current system works. However, most experienced hunters know the final compound with onyl 1 clue, based off the cutout. Rather than going around looking at clues, they beeline to the bounty (my crew and I do this, we want to banish!). I like the new rotjaw clue- 1, there are multiple water bodies she could be in within the line (usually), and 2, it feels way more natural- like i'm actually hunting her. I'd love to see that appear for the normal clues over the cutout- Sure, in the end, the mechanic is the same, and you'll know the final location pretty early on, but rather than having a blacked out map, it's still fully available.

[hallow pasture]

Which brings me to a whole other thing for the idea mentioned before, great idea.. but, works for 1 boss.. how would you implement it with 2 bosses

[carmine needle]

Unless I start at or next to the boss, I'll still have several possible compounds to clear.

[hot vigil]

Make clues blue or green for each respective boss?

[hallow pasture]

perhaps, but would have to be all scattered out

[little jackal]

I like pink

[hot vigil]

Yeah, but then again, how many people really go "I want to hunt THAT boss" and not "we spawned on butcher side, so I guess we do butcher first?"

Think it is fine that people just stumble upon either or lair

[hallow pasture]

Ye that's the thing, you won't have sides

[quick raven]

THis is the idea for 2 bosses that someone else put togetherhttps://media.discordapp.net/attachments/367785159933689857/1133450042833911908/image.png?width=661&height=661

[hallow pasture]

next lair could be for the other boss, you'd never know

[little carbon]

Eliminating the map that quickly is the point of the system tho. It gets people to run into each other.
Same with the fact on being able to estimate how teams are going to move. That introdoces a layer that allows teams that think to have an advantage

[hallow pasture]

If you'd want to hunt one of the two, you'll have to really work for it.

Like it's not all clues on it's respective side, on the idea it wont

All random

[hot vigil]

Yes, but on the other hand we do get constant complains that the boss banishes too fast. So don't think it would be too much of issue we slowed down the process a little.

[unborn dagger]

@ornate elm grow a pair man, god damn lol

[lavish parcel]

Would be nice if bosses banished fast in my game.

[quick raven]

I understand that's sort of the intent, but I htink there's a lot of merit to making the hunt more involved, slowing the "run into everyone in 30s" and having the run ins a bit more random and chaotic.

[hallow pasture]

#feedback-discussion message

here's the most simple fix to eliminate a high percentage of that problem

[hot vigil]

Interesting

[little carbon]

I would say that bosses arent banishing too fast. (The banish happening early promotes people to not slow down too much. Thats also why the banish time is set so you always have enough time to cross the map, if barely).
It often feels like people that are advocating for longer / later banishes or a more involved / slower beginning of the match have a different idea for Hunt that is more an immersive sim than what Hunt currently is (a shooter built on ideals of a competetive mindset).
If a new system would introduce new meaningful, skillful decisions with adequate pressure and "punishment" for getting them wrong, i wouldnt be opposed. But as it stands the proposed change would actually remove a layer of analysis from the first phase of the game and would significantly reduce pressure on players to make a move and advance their position.

[carmine needle]

You could make the clues obvious to a boss- scrappy has feather, spider has webs, assassin has bugs, butcher's is made out of a dead hog....

in terms of removing the cutout difference between each boss

and then have the markers for each boss be different on the map. little crows for scrappy, spiders for spider, etc...

[hot vigil]

I can see that and tho I want to slow down gameplay a little, I don't want Hunt to be a ImmSim.
Just wanna feel like I'm using my brain in the initial phase of the game, especially now people can just know where the boss is within the first clue.

And you can still analyse some thing from the clues direction such as "it sure ain't where we was and not to the right of us" :b

Biggest issue I can see with this kind of system is that people can just keep circling the map collecting clues, even when they know they ain't towards the boss, dark areas does funnel people towards certain areas.

Tho ofc removing money gain from clues could lessen that a little .

Tho if people wanna waste 15 min hugging the edges of the map I don't see why they shouldn't be allowed to do that I guess?

[carmine needle]

yeah, keep them to value being 3 if you need to stop folks from farming... and still ahve the clues die when the bosses get banished

[hallow pasture]

Ye, but money gain can be fine as it sits, if you're wrong 4 times, and run into a team... you can still lose it and not even been close to the boss

[hot vigil]

or just only pay money for the first 3 clues.

[carmine needle]

That's what I meant

[hot vigil]

anything extra is just for more direction

aaah

smort

[hallow pasture]

could work

[carmine needle]

Sorry, worded dum

You get paid out for 3, but can still interact with all clues.... until the boss is banished

[quick raven]

Honestly, I disagree w/ banising not happening too fast. If you (in general, not you you) are one of those people who know where exactly to go after first clue, sure it's perfectly paced for you.
But for everyone else, the boss is half the time banished before getting to 3rd clue, if not 2nd.

Aside from that, I play this instead of PubG because I want to experience a hunt process. Similar to Evolve, if you played that. Not just have it be relocated to more-or-less a "gimmick" used to force PvP up our ass as quick as possible.

[little jackal]

is it even possible to know for sure after the first one

[carmine needle]

Yes

[little jackal]

how?

[hot vigil]

Based on the patterns the areas gets darked out and how the map is divided between the two clues

[quick raven]

See? A lot of people don't even know. Those people don't stand a chance against people who've just burned the map cutouts into their brain.

[carmine needle]

The cutout. Depending on the map- not saying 100% of the time, but MOST with 1 clue and 2 bosses, my team and I can correctly land the final location with just one clue- we'll beeline there (tho we WILL snag clues that are in route, so it works the same, we just don't go out of the way for clues that logically don't make any sense)

[hallow pasture]

I honestly know it many times, just ignore it to run into other people who don't, atleast something to do.

[brisk timber]

yea this could work with clues that like narrow down

[hot vigil]

Exactly how I said lmao :v

[brisk timber]

First clue 180° .. second 120°... 45!

[hot vigil]

But thanks for agreeing

[little carbon]

i can kind of agree here. More actual complexity would be good. More meaningful decisions that players can use to turn skill / smart decisionmaking into gameplay advantages.
There just needs to be care to not add "false" complexity, systems that seem complex at first but fall apart completely when analysed. (Both Tarkov's skill system and the weapon mod system being like that. They both seem like really complex systems at first, but they both can be reduced to ideals and they both wont impact your in-moment decision making)

And thats also the issue with slowdown. Time is a great pressure maker. If a wrong decison costs you some time, then that means with limited time you do get a great deal of disadvantage. If you now increase the time frame that effect gets diluted, unless you increase the punishment proportionally (which is not feasible). The other way is to increase the number of decisions so that the effective value stays the same. But that would require the slower system to have more meaningful decisions

[hallow pasture]

That last one doesn't even to be narrow at all, there's just one place that's even in a wide span as the first one.

[little jackal]

red is 2 boss, gray is grayed out, where is the larger boss?

[little carbon]

I mean kind of. But if you are one of the players who cant predict boss spawns you should be in an ELO where the other teams are the same,

[hallow pasture]

pitching

[queen jungle]

@queen jungle It wasn't just day and night, the contracts changed every day. And the bounty bonus was for random since you can't prepare as well for random

[hot vigil]

Also a note here is that you can tilt the cones left and right and they can still be more or less accurate. Like the Alain clue could be tilte more downwards and eliminate Lumber, Reeker and Scupper in some games, in other it is like this, which means that people can never "learn the patterns".

[little carbon]

Its not guaranteed. There are different close patterns. In the example that you posted something we dubbed a left-right-close could happen, resulting in the boss being around catfish, otherwise cyprus would be the best bet. In all cases going healing next is the right move

[twin comet]

nobody wnats to have long lasting games. can you imagine playing this game for 6 hours and only having 4-5 bounties? Sounds like the worst idea in the world or ever mentioned. Not to mention that if people aren't shoved together, nerdsw will sit in bushes for the entire round scared shitless

[brisk timber]

Its atleast way more interactive and "Hunt" like as right now

[little jackal]

well some people claim they know after the first clue 😏

[hot vigil]

I hear your concerns, but I still think this system gives great thematic value and eliminates the "pattern memorization tactics" that people have evolved.
People are still gonna run into each other, just under slightly different premises.

[brisk timber]

hahaha LOL i didnt see this one!
What a coincidence to mine xD

Different map but somehow same pattern xD

[hot vigil]

He "stole" mine lmao :v

[hot vigil]

@brisk timber

[brisk timber]

Oh i see you guys did already a bunch of maps! havent scrolled that far up 😄

[little carbon]

And i am not saying that it cant work, i am just saying that in the way it is suggested currently it would probably lead to less significant decisions or less impact of them. But that could be fixed with slight reworks most likely.
I just want to showcase the potential problems, as i would say direct gameplay impact is the more important metric than immersiveness concerning Hunt

[quick raven]

Re: Time. I don't think this eliminates time as a pressure maker. The "cutout" approach isn't the time pressure. It's that minimum 3 other teams are trying to get there quicker. Regardless what approach we use (this approach, the one we're discussing or any other) as long as teams are competing to do it first, the pressure is still there. This just makes baseline time longer (more drawn out and methodical) while still trying to be the first.

[hot vigil]

That is all fair :)
I do recognize that encounters might become a little more "random" as people will have more freedom of movement on the map.
But still don't think it is bad, people still gonna converge on the boss and still gonna fight around extractions.
Tho one of the biggest upsides it makes you still feel in the game no matter what, compared to picking up the clue and see the half the map you are in get greyed out and the next clue is 3 compounds over.

[hot vigil]

Putting Hunt back to the Hunt: Showdown.

[brisk timber]

I think this could be a cool thing for an upcoming event
So players and devs could test how it works

I can see how it really leads to more engagement and immersion

feels more like natural pathing/tracking

[hot vigil]

Also Wildcard modifer: No maps
Not sure how people gonna find extractions tho

[quick raven]

I really think so. Also on the subject of events... it would also naturally translate to future wild-bosses too. (outside of compounds)

[knotty ore]

With the upcoming Twitch drops PLEASE LETS US SPEND BLOOD BONDS ON OLD SKINS LIKE TOMAHAWK AND SEVEN SIGHTS. Been waiting so long for them to go on sale.

[quick raven]

As a newbie, yes please. I'd even shell out for blood bonds for some old skins

[little carbon]

It does lessen the impact of decisionmaking. Due to Hunt not having deterministic starting gamestates (like cs:go for example) there is already a random deviation in the ideal time any given team will have to get to the boss (based on randomness of spawns in this case specifically). The relevance of time loss is given through how it relates to that deviation. If we increase the average time to find the boss then that deviation is also going to increase therefore decreasing the average impact of a mistake.
If Hunt were fully deterministic and had equal starting conditions then your assumption would be correct of course

You can counter that effect by either increasing the time loss for doing a bad call proportionally or scale up the amount of decisions a player is faced with while finding the boss

So if you have an idea how to achive that i think your whole idea could be great

[slender geyser]

Crytek, why the fk is the rain in every damn map now ? no one wanted to play the wildcard contract so you force everybody onto it? it sucks. It completly disables your biggest and ONLY feature .. SOUND.

[quick raven]

If I understand the problem statement correctly, the solution that comes immediately to mind is larger vertex angles. So, right now the crunch is greater because so many people know exactly where to go within 1-2 clues.. Makes the vertex angles large enough that it averages 3-5 clues (or more travel time to use a "more effective" clue location. (i.e. full map traversal)
Because you have to find more It would require you to make decisions more often in terms of where to go to effectively identify the location.

[valid mango]

when will you fix server sync? why do people with high ping continue to have an advantage? when will you start focusing on fixing these problems and not adding new skins?

[knotty ore]

Crytek doesn't recognize this as an issue.

[quick raven]

Also, you could possibly have the vertex angle size be proportional to the range from the layer. So bad decisions effectively do not eliminate possibilities.

[little jackal]

since apparently you're gonna be the only contestant, I feel obliged to inform you that the answer is wrong. Guess pattern experts already went to the boss and didn't have time to give the right one

[hot vigil]

Also you can mad lad it and to go for a second clue across the map to triangulate better.

[quick raven]

That's what I'd consider most effective

[hallow pasture]

Your map is all wrong xD 2nd boss in a config like that would've been just 4 spots not 5.

[hot vigil]

Unless unlucky

[hallow pasture]

so on that basis, I'd still go pitching

[little jackal]

now I see some actual knowledge of the system

[hallow pasture]

Just to go into the other field if it's not there, high probably been right in the crossing line lair

If I had time to go there, the outer ones would have had been found and gunshots heard.

so there

knowledge of 2 lairs within 2-3 minutes playtime on that map you drew up.

[little jackal]

wait wdym second boss tho. Can't find this exact split, but here's another with 5 compounds for the small boss. I think mine is okay regarding the small boss, but it doesn't even matter. I wasn't sure about stillwater bend being cut off after the first clue, but unfortunately there was nobody anyway to correct me if I had indeed messed it up.

[ornate elm]

Keep crying that self res is op bozo

[unborn dagger]

I'm not lol

[frozen frigate]

seems like someone got clapped by a solo

[ornate elm]

I’m a solo and im not a 40 jobless lоser to camp solos body for 20 minutes to get a kill and complain in discord that crytek “forces” me to camp

[hallow pasture]

occurs on lawson delta often.

[ornate elm]

Just go through discord suggestions every 5th is someone suggesting to nerf self revive

From people who didn’t even play a single solo game

[lavish parcel]

I don't understand the whining and bitching around self revive... if you can't kill a solo again and confirm he's dead, then you probably wouldn't fare any better against him in a trio.

[ornate elm]

Exactly my point

[hallow pasture]

But true, any map you'd draw up can be fine, I still stand to where I'd go xD

[frozen frigate]

yeahhh

[acoustic moth]

maybe i just dont enjoy watching over someones dead body like the dog in futurama waiting for Fry to come back

[frozen frigate]

man just put some traps on the dude or burn the body

solos aren’t hard to deal with unless you just let them get up

[lavish parcel]

Then don't, fuck off and continue your match. If he gets up, then kill him again

[ornate elm]

Crytek forces them to camp the body 🤡

[lavish parcel]

What would be any different from one of his teammates sitting in a bush unnoticed waiting until you leave to revive?

[hallow pasture]

Then so be it, you'll already have put traps and or burn

Just leave and stop the camp

[frozen frigate]

fr

[hallow pasture]

The team is less hard to deal with, one is already near dead again once he's up

And if it's a solo... just leave, he's easier to kill already

[frozen frigate]

i’m a solo and half the time if you don’t burn my body or trap it i’ll just wipe your team

there isn’t much to it just burn the body lol

[hallow pasture]

That's you, acording to yourself

so...

[little jackal]

yeah I gotcha. Well, both 4- and 5-location splits are possible. Maybe map-dependent, can't say I ever paid much attention to it.

[frozen frigate]

i mean i guess

crossbow funny hehe ha ha

[hallow pasture]

I prefer bow with exlosives

[frozen frigate]

haven’t tried it yet

[hallow pasture]

if they loot, I res.. they pop me agian, I popped one arrow, they both dead

xD

Then I'd take my win and loss of chunks and just exit.

[frozen frigate]

sounds like the bomb lance experience

[hallow pasture]

that's hella funny too

Putting all alert mines around one is fun too, they scare the shit out their pants, and you know he's up.

And he knows everyone knows

[quick raven]

No one here at all has a complaint that they "can't put down" a solo.

The complaint is that you have to burn him, then sit there with your thumb up your ass or your pecker in hand, drooling while you stare at the screen for the next minute or so waiting to see if he burns out, or if you have to shoot him again and do it all over.

[hallow pasture]

Just take hellfires, burn long enough

problem solved all together

[hot vigil]

This

[hot vigil]

Doesn't Hellfire have shorter burn time?

[hardy coral]

Hellfire sets bodies on fire but it doesn't leave any fire behind.

[hot vigil]

Exactly

[quick raven]

Also, the advice you have here...

"FuCk OfF aNd JuSt LeAve"

That advice is as SPED as saying "kill 2 people and leave the third one alive. If they come back, do it again"

[hot vigil]

I was also sure about that

But well, we could also just keep the solo necro as it is and then allow to queue up for "full teams only", then everyone wins :)

[little jackal]

except other solos

[quick raven]

Eeeh, duos and trios.

[hot vigil]

No no, there need to be a place for solos.
And that is okay

But just give people the option for playing against full teams only.

So people who wanna play with and against solos gets that choice.

And those who don't doesn't

[lavish parcel]

What's the difference of waiting around for the third in a trio and waiting for a solo to revive then?

[hot vigil]

everyone wins.

[little jackal]

except solos that don't want to play against solos. Or against solo necro I should say.

[quick raven]

But on a more serious note, I don't want people to be excluded because of their perk choice. I just want the perk to provide difficulty in the form of challenge instead of difficulty in the form of annoyance

[hot vigil]

Again, one queue have full teams only and the other allow for different size teams as it is now.

[little jackal]

how can a solo join a full teams queue if they're not a full team themselves?

[hot vigil]

Active vs. passive play, the state where you wait for solo is passive, the battle is won and unless the team who is burning is having stroke the solo ain't gonna get up.

[hot vigil]

Again, two queues, one that we have right now in hunt, game will create a match regardless of team size.
And then the option for teams to say "full teams only" so if I play trio, I will only play against other trios.

[little jackal]

and the reason for that is solo necro or just generally?

[quick raven]

Two things...
First it takes less time on average to locate and engage that third person.

Second, and MUCH more importantly... engaging that third person is actually playing the game. Sitting there waiting for the solo is effectively not playing the game. You're just sitting there blank faced, staring at the game.

Anything which makes you have to stop actively playing the game is fundamentally a shitty mechanic.

[hot vigil]

Well, many people don't want to play against solo necro and solo necro people insist the mechanic is fair and balanced.
So my solution is just to have those parties not play together.

Everyone wins

[knotty ore]

FFS don't force rain in every single fucking map

[little jackal]

not everyone lol

[knotty ore]

Its so fucking annoying

why do you want people to stop playing?

[little jackal]

I'll try the third time: solo that don't like to play against solo necro are left out and not happy.

[hot vigil]

Ah well, that is extra side of this debate, people who can actually regonize that solo necro have issues.
Bc I bet if teams had the choice to not play against solo necro in its current form, those solo queues would be long and empty.
Ofc only speculative.

[little jackal]

yeah

[quick raven]

Who are these people you speak of?

[knotty ore]

People keep extracting from rain maps

Because they are shit

[quick raven]

Gitdammit. Why did it scroll backwards 😭

[hot vigil]

I used to say "oh let us just give solo their own lobby" and people always say "that would suck and be awful to play!".
Which is my point.

[quick raven]

There

[hot vigil]

But I like to be a condescending bastard and now just do the same though experiement with "let teams choose if they wanna play against solos".

[quick raven]

I don't like the idea of separate queues... even if it does benefit me to not have to deal with dumbass mechanics

[knotty ore]

I LOVE THAT IDEA

Its better than EXTRACTING

[quick raven]

Though I'll make a deal... I'll shut the fuck up and tolerate the solo queue if others will shut the fuck up about the rain. God forbid you have 3,000 hours and actually face a challenge 🤣

[hot vigil]

me either, but I would take it if I didn't have to play against solos as they are rn.

[knotty ore]

Is this fun for you?

Its not for me

[hot vigil]

AH! A 6 star!

[quick raven]

Good. Cull the weak bishes

[hot vigil]

Don't jumpscare me like that

[quick raven]

Yep, 6 star "can't use muh long gun that I always bring, every single time, ever.... ever - abandon lobby"

[hot vigil]

Truly sad state :(

Not to throw shade at Edible, he played thru

So he is good c:

[knotty ore]

Its mostly that people don't even want to play with forced rain

[quick raven]

Agreed. Deserves the kudos

[hot vigil]

I don't think there is a single time in my 1.2k hours (I know low playtime) where I have extracted bc of the map type.
Dunno, it is just an element to Hunt and dunno why people hate it so much

[quick raven]

What's next? Whining that we don't want to fight scrapbook? I'll leave and quit and downcote and review bomb if I don't get to fight butcher!!!

[hot vigil]

Maybe bc I usually only run Deadeye scopes and sometimes marksman scopes

If pick scopes

at all

[quick raven]

Because they don't want Hunt. They want a PubG experience with Hunt frosting

[knotty ore]

This has been my loadout forever now. I haven't used a mosin in like 100 hours

Well that's a lie I think I used a mosin I picked up a few times

[hallow pasture]

Ye, bit late reaction, I was very sarcastic, hiting towards the just burn and leave a bit there.

[hot vigil]

Which is fair I guess, tho PUBG also have (had?) fog maps :v

[knotty ore]

I just hate the rain because it completely destroys audio accuracy in Hunt. People next to you sound like they are far away, its really fucking annoying.

[hallow pasture]

And way too loud

I usually play full out on my headset, how I configurated it, I have to actually tone it down.

[quick raven]

I'm willing to bet at least 1.5 of my testicles that most of those same people... would still play Hunt... if they actually removed the bounty mechanics and just replaced it with a shrinking energy field

[dull mason]

IIRC the actual audio of other players is not changed whatsoever it is just that the rain is placed on top of it

[hot vigil]

Can see that, they could lessen the rain sound during non-thunderstorm

[ornate elm]

Saying that u “have to camp the body” is just coping

[hallow pasture]

making it too damn loud

[knotty ore]

They could just let you choose

That's hot

choice is hot

its smart

[ornate elm]

It’s the same if u were to extract camp if boss is far from extract

[hot vigil]

I mean I would, bc I just love the gunplay of Hunt

[upper hearth]

I just shot someone twice point blank in the chest wqith the uppercut and it didnt kill',m. G freaking G

[hot vigil]

That is an option. Tho it is good to gauge how much should be a choice in Hunt.
Bc we humans are comfort creatures.

[quick raven]

There needs to be a bit of common sense to choice. When everyone chooses exactly what conditions they want to play in, it just really further divided the community by skill and meta knowledge.

Randomization of game state helps to a large degree to blunt that.

[hallow pasture]

on that note, comfor creatures, sure.. people are comfortable playing hunt as it is, play the event if it is there if they want.. that's comfort. still the choice is there.

[quick raven]

People play exactly the conditions they want and begin to understand exactly the most pristine way to play with perfection under those settings. And everyone else just gets ground into fucking dust because fuck having to adapt.

[hot vigil]

Ah more meant in habitual way. We usually want to lessen challenge if we can get away with it.
It is in our nature. Ofc we are competitive too, but putting ourselves out and beyond a comfort zone can be hard.

[hallow pasture]

I could adapt to the event settings, no problem... if they worked out sounds that is.

[quick raven]

I can't speak to that because I never had that issue

[knotty ore]

RAIN EVERY FUCKING GAME

SO FUN

I can see why people are noping the fuck out

[hallow pasture]

ye, did 4 matches, one was in day... big f'ing woop dee doo

[hot vigil]

Again, I don't say it is wrong or people who don't wanna play rain map just ain't really gamers.
Just important to keep certain aspects in mind when talking things like this.

[quick raven]

I hope they put in a failsafe without telling people. "You wanna yet out, fk u pssy, we increased the chances of your next map having rain."

[hot vigil]

Ah no don't want that

[quick raven]

https://tenor.com/view/yummy-nick-jonas-kiss-blow-kiss-boom-gif-15510520

[hot vigil]

People who doesn't wanna engage with your systems shouldn't be rewarded but examined.
At the end of the day we want as many people to play

Within reason ofc

[quick raven]

Me neither, but since there's so much salt, I'ma sprinkle some on my responses

[hallow pasture]

what, more salt?

sprinkle some more?

https://tenor.com/view/hmm-dot-dot-dot-stick-figure-intresting-gif-23376515

[knotty ore]

Fuck rain maps I'm not playing until they fix this trash

bye

[hallow pasture]

https://tenor.com/view/mark-cuban-shark-tank-notes-taking-notes-remember-gif-15073512

duly noted, that's how many now?

[knotty ore]

Games are nearly empty in my MMR all day today

So, a lot

[hallow pasture]

Ye, since patch, I have to add a second region just to get a match, and still takes longer than usual on just main region.

[knotty ore]

Stop forcing people into weather they don't want to play

Its simple af

Split the contracts again, it was better. I could avoid rain entirely, it was great.

[hallow pasture]

And just put the rotjaw in all contracts, be done with it, bet the night and rain contracts barrily get selected then.

[knotty ore]

Yes, because its not fun to play

[steady vapor]

not going to buy the moorehound but well done to the devs, that was an amazing trailer

[quick raven]

https://tenor.com/view/wrong-not-nope-gif-22294097

[hallow pasture]

I've seen so many troll video's of trump I can't not hear his stupid voice on this gif...

damn...

[quick raven]

THat's exactly what I was hoping for. I practically wrote it in his voice 🤣

In all seriousness, I fully agree that it shouldn't be every map. IMO, it should be about 30% in "normal" times. And (still IMO) about 66% of the time now (given the nature of the event - shouldn't have to explain to even the simplest person or most devout hater why that makes thematic sense)

[quick raven]

I'm not sure if I will right now... I bought the Revenant & Battle Pass to support them, that's enough for one week.

[open carbon]

@knotty ore you sound like a broken record, please just stop playing Hunt and stop being annoying, my god it's the same over and over again "Me me me, I want I want I want!" ... Stfu, really, we've been discussing ideas all the time and you just refuse being constructive unless it exactly fits what YOU want. Just don't play Hunt if it isn't for you. Any healthy or sane person would've stopped playing a game they don't like. Instead you few people are being a goddamn nuisance. Go get help, for real

[quick raven]

You're better than me. When someone wants to be a non-productive, unhelpful asshat, I tend to respond to them in kind. 🤣

[open carbon]

Man I thought I would read some inspiring chats here after waking, up instead I woke up to such a load of $§/(&! grml

[quick raven]

THere was a good one earlier!

[open carbon]

Couldn't help myself sorry for the freak out

[quick raven]

It was about revising the way clues are handled, to keep the map open, create more randomness, slow the game a little to make it more actual hunt-esque, and put more decision making in the players' hands on how they should approach finding the boss.

[open carbon]

Ah yes I have to catch up on that

Saw some pics scrolling past

[hallow pasture]

You can jump up to about 3 hours ago, that's some inspiring stuff

[dull mason]

I would go as far to say that being able to choose between high vis/low vis maps is a crutch for people that don't want to have to learn how to play the game with all that it has to offer.

[quick raven]

#feedback-discussion message Here's my first comment w/ image, and it was refined by a lot of people as we discussed

[hallow pasture]

started even a bit earlier than that

[quick raven]

No. All me.

https://tenor.com/view/kitty-kitten-annoyed-irritated-tantrum-gif-13045775

[open carbon]

Alright. I'm gonna get some coffee and read up, thanks you guys :D

[hallow pasture]

#feedback-discussion message

YOU started there xD

[quick raven]

Oh, how silly of me to forget myself

🤣

[hallow pasture]

https://tenor.com/view/reservoir-dogs-steve-buscemi-mr-pink-worlds-smallest-violin-gif-24054012

[unborn dagger]

@knotty ore what is the deal with people being against choices in your suggestion

[quick raven]

I can't speak for others, but to give a more serious response to my issue with it, I'll copy-pasta my take from last night:
I like this game for the extremely random nature. I don't want the "CoD" esque experience where someone goes in knowing exactly what the conditions and having their character calculated down to d"ck-length on how to masterfully manipulate those conditions to win.

I imagine, it's because they appeal largely to different demographics. People who play games like CoD tend to not want randomization. They want to have every molecule of the experience planned and get their rocks off to the power fantasy.

People who tend to be after these sorts of games (similar to Evolve, DbD, etc) usually appreciate the randomness and get their rocks off from overcoming the unpredictability.

If it's not obvious, I'm speaking in general terms. Not in universal truths that have no exception 😅

[knotty ore]

This is a feedback channel

[hallow pasture]

https://tenor.com/view/pointing-that-is-correct-thats-right-good-job-way-to-go-gif-18723702

BUT

Not for complaints

[knotty ore]

They can't win PVP without unfair advantages like gamma filters and settings that reduce fog. So, its in their best interest to continue forcing people to play those map types.

[quick raven]

I can say, definitively... the rain has not helped my sub-1 KDA

[open carbon]

That's pure bullshit and you know it. That's just like you saying most people on this Discord are "unhealthy" and not "sane". You're saying everyone who enjoys the maps you don't like use some sort of filter or, to go where you want to go, "cheats"... You're talking out of your ass and you know it

[hallow pasture]

Then just temp ban reshaders

play the game like the game is made

[knotty ore]

You don't need reshade specifically, some monitor settings let you see in nighttime like its daytime.

I'd rather just not be forced to play those map types

If you want to play them, go ahead

Literally no one is stopping you

But, you think its "fine" to force me to play them

[open carbon]

I'd rather not be forced to cater to main-characters like you

[knotty ore]

Which is concerning AF

[hallow pasture]

Oh, I don't like it either

I just don't bitch about it so much, I do suggest how it can be reworked.

[knotty ore]

Me choosing a map type DOESN'T AFFECT YOU AT ALL ROFL

[open carbon]

Which usually ends up being more constructive

[knotty ore]

So, you are literally fighting to make MY gaming experience worse, that's it.

Rethink your shit bro

[unborn dagger]

I'm not sure if it's CODesque to want to choose a time of day. Not to mention Crytek literally lowers night time and fog to less than 10%. If Crytek isn't going to keep it equal then put in a choice, don't go and ruin the experience for others that prefer time of days like night and rain.

[open carbon]

Of course it does

And I refuse to provide any metrics for that, just like you

[knotty ore]

We've literally played split contracts for a while now and all of my lobbies were full. Now, they aren't.

[unborn dagger]

Crytek putting in stuff like wild targets was a perfect way of seperating night and day times and having a good balance

[knotty ore]

I had full lobbies in both contracts

[unborn dagger]

Same here

[knotty ore]

Now no one wants to be forced to play rain so they are literally not playing right now in my MMR

[quick raven]

I don't think it's fine to "force you to play them," I think you are the people you just described.

[unborn dagger]

Never had an issue finding a rain and night match and they were most of the time full

[knotty ore]

^

So, all you want to do is affect my enjoyment by forcing me to play maps I don't want to.

Where it doesn't even affect you in any way, you can choose to play night, or rain

[quick raven]

I used COD as just the goto "standard" for FPS PvP. There are a type of people who want to have every microscopic detail understood - because executing their pre-planned vision is their marker for success. And there are a type of people who want a lot of randomization - because overcoming unforeseen circumstances is their marker for success. Considering how recruitment works, how the weather effects/time of day/spawns/boss etc. work, I think I know which one they are appealing to. And I'm all here for it.

[open carbon]

Anyway.. About the triangulation idea... I love it, and the way you've been working on it there's nothing I can come up with that would be missing

[hallow pasture]

All said and well, the drawback of this shoving it down by Crytek is that everytime I take stuff for nightmaps, flares whatsoever...
I get a daymap -__- just my luck I guess?
And visaversa

[knotty ore]

Wouldn't it be sick if you could just choose what time of day you play and when?

[quick raven]

Realistically, that's what we ALL want.

Even if we don't want to say it, all of us want the game to be the exact experience that caters to us, and want other people to either get with it or get out. In most cases, we're just willing to compromise. In this case, given your particularly vitriolic attitude about it, I would prefer the former.

[open carbon]

And you don't think that could be due to most people having completed the event and therefore playing less, or some other reason, like there's just fewer people playing over weekdays etc? No, your bias lets you take it as confirmation that you must be right and everyone hates night maps. That's what makes me furious

[knotty ore]

I don't want you to play how I play, or get out. I want you to play how you want to play. That's what fucking choice is.

[knotty ore]

I play a ton and I'm not done with the event. I would wager most people are not done unless they paid BB for it, or play like 15hr a day.

[hallow pasture]

Yes, but that's not gonna work out, too many lobby variables, simply returning to pre-latests update would do.

[quick raven]

To me, that's part of the actual fun. Coming in, realizing you're extremely under (or inappropriately) equipped... and having to adjust your perfectly laid plan. It's the video game equivalent of Mike Tyson's "Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth." 🤣

[knotty ore]

It was literally working before they united the contracts. Full servers in both of them every time.

[hallow pasture]

I think you missed my point mate...

[open carbon]

Could be. Can only speak for myself, I'm done already, didn't buy levels and played about 6h a day

[hallow pasture]

so, basicly... most gear is rendered completely useless.

[knotty ore]

I'm pretty sure most people don't even play 6h a day, that's a lot.

[hallow pasture]

Creating new meta

[unborn dagger]

Like the nightlamp lol

[quick raven]

Objectively wrong. Because my way is one lobby, and the gods decide what conditions I play in. Roguelite bishes! 🤣

[open carbon]

I'm aware that's a lot, but I'm also pretty sure it could still be due to the hype cooling off

[knotty ore]

In Roguelite you literally get to decide on something every tier to progress. Your decisions drive outcomes, not randomness.

[quick raven]

I'm not sure if I agree with that. I don't know any time of day or weather that makes shots, first aid kits, choke bombs, frag grenades, fire bombs, dynamite, (should I keep going?) useless.

[open carbon]

You can't call their preference "objectively" wrong tho ^^

[quick raven]

He said his way would give me what I want. "You get to play your way."
That's what's objectively wrong.

[open carbon]

Ah I understand

[hallow pasture]

Well.... I guess taking flares, flaregun, just forget the nightlamp... no1 ever uses that anyway, is usefull in fog?

nah... just night map

so, scrap that, never gets used again.

[knotty ore]

According to this sub, its fine to force people to extract every time they hit a map type they don't like. And pretend that affects people less than allowing them to choose a map type.

[hallow pasture]

In fog maps, can't see shit.. snipers wont get picked so often, in night maps.. it's unbearable.

so scrap snipers

should I go on?

This is what this contract map list creates

Got so much to pick, and all it does is create some new meta

[quick raven]

You absolutely should. Because there's going to be a person or two who banks on it being light, and is going to pick a sniper. And they're going to be right or wrong, and their rank in the pecking order (and battle plan) changes drastically based on it.

[hallow pasture]

Since the update, Panophobe.. I've not encountered, honestly, so many shotguns, main weapon or secondairy, all slugs.

it's insane

Shotgun is the new meta now

[knotty ore]

You also have to consider that if you choose to play those maps with a sniper, there may very well be a guy who can see you perfectly and kill you at like 200m through fog. Happens to me all the time so I don't want to play fog...

And I know he isn't even hacking, its just a settings thing and possibly 3rd party apps not designed for cheating

[open carbon]

They aren't forced to leave. They could still just play and enjoy the uncertainty. I'm not saying there's no people who play with whatever augmentations to the game to gain an advantage in night maps, but that's not the people we're talking about here. That's what the reshade discussion should be about, and it shouldn't be used as an argument against night or fog. Especially since anyone else has to deal with the issue of being at a disadvantage this way. Your way, only a certain people can fall victim to what you call a disadvantage, you're just making it not your problem.

[hallow pasture]

fog maps work weird, you can't see shit, unless in the scope, but that narrows your fov. so basicly, not seeing shit goes for overal sight and fov.

so, they have to have heard you or seen you by chance

[knotty ore]

People don't enjoy to lose based on random shit and not their own skill. This has been true since the dawn of fucking time. Dying to someone who can see really well at night is trash

Same with fog

It has nothing to do with reshade

You don't need reshade for this

Focusing on reshade isn't going to solve shit, ever.

[open carbon]

Yeah, there's hardware options too

[knotty ore]

Just let people choose, solves everything.

[open carbon]

But really, it's still not solving the problem, it's just making it not your problem anymore, but for others it still would be. Choice would not solve that

[quick raven]

It is your own skill. Your inability to adapt and adjust.

[open carbon]

Just because you got killed at night doesn't mean they were seeing better than you. They could just as well just been better than you. It's the old "everyone whos better than me must be cheating" debate

[knotty ore]

No, because if the devs see night and fog maps never being chosen they can literally put effort into fixing issues with those map types.

[knotty ore]

Ok, so you want me to set up gamma layers so I can see people perfectly at night just to stay competitive?

Because otherwise I will get killed by people I can't see

You guys literally have no argument here, but you pretend like you do.

[quick raven]

NO, I want you to spend half the time you spend here being a whiny, pretentious little shit, actually learning how to play in the rain, and then shoot my ass on sight.

[open carbon]

No, we want you to not blame every loss to gamma layers or monitor settings

[knotty ore]

When have I ?

[quick raven]

^That too

[knotty ore]

I just extract

[hallow pasture]

if you want to look at a ugly grey screen so high on gamma to win and be competitive.. go ahead.

[knotty ore]

I don't need to

I just extract

It affects you and only wastes a little bit of my time

[open carbon]

It has been your only argument this entire time, these past days, it's always been "me dying, must be gamma layers"

[quick raven]

From the attitude here, that's the exact experience I hope for you. 🤣

[knotty ore]

Attitudes don't affect how right I am.

[hallow pasture]

https://tenor.com/view/i-dont-remember-asking-meme-who-tf-asked-who-asked-meme-no-one-asked-meme-nobody-asked-meme-gif-26107422

[open carbon]

They affect you seeing that you are not though

[quick raven]

"It only wastes a little bit of my time."

How long you been on here whining about it the last couple days? I want to know your definitely of "a little bit"

[knotty ore]

lol please provide one rational argument for why people should be forced to not enjoy the game?

[hallow pasture]

a little bit of playing besides sitting here I guess

[open carbon]

You won't accept the argument as rational. You still are using "players being forced" as an invalidation to anything you don't like. You're not being forced. Go play sth else if you don't like it

[quick raven]

Because games are designed to appeal to a target demographic, and if you're not in that demographic, there should be no expectation that any developer adjusts their target to appease to you, providing there's a large enough playerbase to sustain the game.

From Software doesn't need to make Dark Souls easier just because I want to be a whiny bitch about it being too hard.

[knotty ore]

You are right. I can also extract, which affects everyone else's enjoyment of the game as the lobbies will be smaller because everyone seems to be doing it.

[open carbon]

Rationality went out the window when you started using bad faith arguments like that

[knotty ore]

So, this impacts people who like night, rain..etc

[open carbon]

Haven't felt any impact of you leaving the match ever

[knotty ore]

Naw, I've given you perfectly rational arguments you are just into the whole authoritarian enforcement of how you like to play the game.

[quick raven]

Also, trust me... I've tried 🤣

[hallow pasture]

https://tenor.com/view/will-smith-im-out-queendugif-leaving-leave-gif-13665191
This is going nowhere...

[quick raven]

Then I learned, adapted, adjusted and love the experience

[open carbon]

Probably because it wouldn't have made a difference because you'd probably die to the first AI you run into and start whining like "SEE, nobody could've seen that coming"

[knotty ore]

Choice is king

please learn

[quick raven]

You can choose to Uninstall.
Choice is king.

Please learn.

[knotty ore]

I've been at 5-6* since my first 30hrs of playing, calm down.

[open carbon]

Doesn't sound like it at all from what you've been on about

[knotty ore]

This also affects you. More people uninstalling affects player base.

[quick raven]

I'm willing to bet not enough people to be noticed or missed.

[open carbon]

In a positive way bc all the whiny babies are gone

[knotty ore]

All that's left are 3-4 star, half-full lobbies.

[open carbon]

The only time I get half-full lobbies are around ~3-7am

[knotty ore]

I'm getting them now in high MMR west.

[open carbon]

And they're all having fun without you

[knotty ore]

Its better to destroy the player base than admit that my argument is trash -Mykl

[quick raven]

I've yet to have fewer than 10-11 in a 3-4*

[knotty ore]

I have one other team, and its a godsend if they don't leave because its rain.

[quick raven]

No, it's sort of like banning trolls. There are some people that a player base is better without

[knotty ore]

Ban all the people good at hunt

Its healthy

[open carbon]

They wouldn't ban you then, I'm sure

[knotty ore]

slow clap

clapping escalates

raging applause

[quick raven]

I'm glad you're starting to appreciate it. Welcome to the group.

[open carbon]

Oh I always forget

[knotty ore]

Welcome to Hunt newbie

[quick raven]

https://tenor.com/view/wolf-of-wall-street-jordan-belfort-leonardo-di-caprio-one-of-us-jonah-hill-gif-5441859

[open carbon]

We can 1v1 now

[knotty ore]

You really wanna stand next to a wall and see who flashes first?

[open carbon]

I never flash

[knotty ore]

Ok than I'd win that 1v1 lol

[open carbon]

I got enough guts to engage someone potentionally better than me without getting sweaty

But I really doubt you'd win.. We'd need a referee since there's no scoreboard though

[knotty ore]

"I am using strategically unsound maneuvers in an attempt to prove my testicle size" -Mykl

Hypothetically, what loudouts would we be using?

[open carbon]

Nah, I'm doing it to have fun while being annoying to my enemy lol xD

[open carbon]

Hmm not sure, I'd be switching around all the time, but I'd come in with Springy explosive ammo and sth else that I can't find on the range

Wanna see how I play?

https://drive.google.com/file/d/14JTKo8AG_mu-Yc6KD-nYCn_9zimyDl3h/view

Just to make it clear

I'm not saying I'm good xD

[knotty ore]

Send me a non drive link

Like do a streamable or something

[open carbon]

Why? You can just watch it like on youtube there

[quick raven]

This is absolutely the PEAK gameplay experience.

Is rather fuck up and get iced by a 1‐star... because I have interesting loads (and random weather/time that I want prepared for) than come in with more knowledge of the map than the CIA and perfectly execute a 6-star

[open carbon]

Aye. I'd rather have some funny moments than being too tryhard

As the clip up there shows xD

[quick raven]

Facts. I've done some solid plays. Flanked around and headshot a roof sniper who was focused on my team mates approaching from the front.

But my favorite encounters are the full-panic ones where we both ended up way too close and now it's omgomgomgomg

[knotty ore]

Its not about tryhard. The issue is that in high MMR people hold corners and that's it. The only way to move them is flash. Shoulder peeking it will get you wallbanged, and you might die to followup.

Not using flash is just not an option in some situations unless you wanna die

[open carbon]

Yeah I can't say it's much fun playing in such lobbies. IMO people stopped enjoying the game to get to that MMR

[peak radish]

https://tenor.com/view/umbrella-raining-gif-26058729

[knotty ore]

Well, I'm also not going to throw to go down, because rolling people who suck is boring.

[open carbon]

Oh and @knotty ore, about the hardware gamma thing.. On my monitor I could change color balance and gamma etc to probably make visibility on night maps muuuuch higher. But in turn it messes up visibility on every other time of day. I couldn't use it even if I wanted to, it really hurts the eyes if it's not night, and there's no toggle.
Also, if your monitor really is the issue, the Nvidia control panel has exactly the same options, and some of my friends had to at least use it so they can see in dimly lit areas during day maps.. Because some monitors are just dogshit and it's not cheating to use the driver settings to compensate

[open carbon]

Usually my countermeasure to someone prepping a flash is the same as with other throwables. I push into them, worst case, they die with me or flash themselves just as much as me

[quick raven]

Mine has a bunch of presets "RPG, Cinematic, FPS, Strategy" and such. If I use the wrong one, gotdayum it's dark 🤣

(Monitor, not 3rd party software)

[knotty ore]

As I've said before I have an OLED panel with HDR enabled through windows. My gamma slider goes from pitch black to perma-flashbang. I can see really well at night if I just turn up my in-game gamma. I just don't want to, it feels dumb as hell to win based on my setup and not my gun skill. But, at the same time I will 100% lose to other people who can easily see me at night. So, I'd rather just not play night maps.

[open carbon]

Suicide-bumrushing is one of my specialties which brought me to 5* on many occasions

[open carbon]

I get that, I wouldn't want to go and change settings every time I get night. So I don't, and just play. Same with rain, I just wish they'd lower the rate we get rain...

[quick raven]

Turning your in-game gamma up isn't "dumb as hell"
It's absolutely expected, intended and is precisely what it's there for.

You're supposed to have a general screen setting/color/brightness that you like having.... And then use the in-game gamma to adjust to a proper level for your individual settings.

That's not gimpy or cheaty, that's literally a feature.

[knotty ore]

Rain is awful because it messes with sound. Not like shits harder to hear, its just less accurate because its broken in-game. You can hear someone outside of a building when they are standing right next to you.

[open carbon]

The presets on mine are total dogpoopoo... And mine is an Asus. Screw Asus xD

[quick raven]

I just happen to have my monitor on a setting (I think Cinematic), so that the default gamma is right for me. If anything I may have turned it down a hair.

[knotty ore]

I'm running a 48in LG C1 lol

[quick raven]

Samsung for me. It's been great so far.

[open carbon]

Huh haven't really noticed that over me going deaf from the noise... But that's a neurodiversity thing, not gonna ask them to change rain because of that

[quick raven]

I haven't noticed anything about it being "inaccurate" myself.

[knotty ore]

It happens a lot with buildings

Something is broken about the rain audio inside buildings

[quick raven]

I've obviously noticed it a bit harder to hear (as intended), and it carries a bit differently I think?? But not like "Oh, they're upstairs" Then get shot from the bushes.

[open carbon]

Have they actually fixed HDR in windows? Afaik it's broken af and muddies colors and contrast

[quick raven]

If you have HDR on, it does that to non-HDR content.

Or last time I turned it on it did...

[knotty ore]

It works fine for me with the exception of like Elden Ring because that game is badly ported in general. So, running HDR ingame gives me double HDR and it looks all washed out.

[open carbon]

48in wtf are you playing from your couch? Having that on a desk would explain why you don't see anything 75% would be outside your IRL FOV 😂

[open carbon]

Makes sense

[knotty ore]

This is straight up the coolest monitor I've ever owned. Its a OLED TV. I have a pullout keyboard tray so I sit like 3ft away lol

[open carbon]

Holy fuck I would need to sit at at least twice that distance 🙈

[quick raven]

Yeah, I'll never do that. I was embarrassed at myself for getting a 32" monitor

[open carbon]

But meh, I like my little 23" 150€ budget monitor. Best one I ever had

144Hz and incredible brightness and contrast. Feel like a real gamer since I have it

[quick raven]

And, seeing as I sit at a proper desk (not a gaming desk), it's honestly the first and only time I've ever thought a monitor was almost too big

[knotty ore]

My high peek brightness makes my in-game slider way more effective so at max gamma on the slider the image is just pure white like I got flashed.

On minimum settings its just so black I can't see anything in daytime

[open carbon]

That's called blow-out, isn't it?

[quick raven]

Yeah, that honestly sounds like you have berzerk monitor settings in place that are causing more issues than the game settings.

[knotty ore]

Its not an issue it looks great at like middle of the bar.

[open carbon]

That's what keeps me from "abusing" my monitor settings for visibility, because on days it means anything above a certain brightness just melts with the surroundings

[knotty ore]

Sorry if we were beefing earlier, just want to play more Hunt, but I don't really want to even log in cause of rain.

[quick raven]

I've ran into that a time or two in the past. Reason why I rarely ever touch my monitor settings at all. And then just tweak my game-specific settings to make the game comfortable without cheesing it.

If I remember when I get home (Thursday night, US/CST) I'll actually look at what my settings are.

[open carbon]

I'm sorry too, I usually give my best to stay diplomatic 🙈 The rain thing.. We can't let ourselves be beaten by that. Let's just turn off game sound entirely like real chads

[knotty ore]

I just have sounds of the ocean on loop

[quick raven]

I prefer to shut the monitor off, and play it by sound entirely.

Gigachad.

[open carbon]

Dude I sometimes leave the lobby open while I take a nap. It's so damn relaxing and quaint

[knotty ore]

You have lobby sounds?

[quick raven]

THe menu music for Hunt is dope

[open carbon]

Yeah the water

[knotty ore]

I might have disabled it like a year ago somewhere

[open carbon]

Music off

[quick raven]

Literally have it pulled up on Spotify

[open carbon]

I love the music but I also love listening to other music via bot when playing with my mates

[open carbon]

I got it as flac on my HDD ^^ and my phone. And so on

[quick raven]

'S all good. That's the point. People should be able to bitch and moan and argue and fight, and somewhere along the line, get over it and be diplomatic again (even though they know they'll probably do it again in the future).

Confrontation isn't bad. Fear and avoidance of confrontation is bad (reason I'm against unnecessarily heavy moderation).

Regarding the rain, my stance is as such:
I fully agree that it shouldn't be every map. IMO, it should be about 30% in "normal" times. And (still IMO) about 66% of the time now (given the nature of the event - shouldn't have to explain to even the simplest person or most devout hater why that makes thematic sense)

[open carbon]

It's really good. The ambience in this game and the general sound design are so damn good I'm never gonna get bored of listening to it

[quick raven]

And that 30% should drop when/if they add additional weather/map modifiers.

[knotty ore]

My teammates usually talk too much pre-game to enjoy music.

[quick raven]

Mine hum along

Hmmmm-h-hmm-HMMMMMM

[open carbon]

This

And we got some tunes we can't stop singing along to, it's shared memories and such

We grew up loving a certain metal band, but it's German and I don't know of anything comparable

Some tunes really fit the Hunt setting, in a funny way

[quick raven]

Dope. My favorite (non Nobuo Eumatsu) OST is for a game called Transistor.

[open carbon]

If any of you speak German, check out Knorkator

#notsponsored

[quick raven]

The song The Spine made me seek out what the genre was called to just hear more music like it 🤣

[open carbon]

The Trainsistor OST... Haven't listened to it in a while.. It's awesome

[quick raven]

Yyyyeeeesss

Really, Supergiant Games as a whole is just the type of developer all indies should aspire to be

[open carbon]

Back to topic, sort of. Hunt's sound design and soundtrack are also on another level

Don't wanna invoke the mod's wrath xD

@knotty ore Are you playing in the US or EU? We've been @-ing each other so much about skill issue, I've gotten curious and really wouldn't be opposed to 1v1s. Not because I want to prove sth, though that might be a small part of it. Mostly though because nobody ever wants to play the shooting range 🙈

[knotty ore]

I'm US West. If you are in EU its going to be hard to have a good 1v1 due to ping differences

[open carbon]

Yeah US West is a little far, it's just barely playable on East, but there we'd both be at about 100-150ms if the servers are having a good day

[quick raven]

US East here. I took US West off of my secondary after suspicious activity Saturday night 😅

[open carbon]

Suspicious activity?

[quick raven]

Okay, so bear with me...

[open carbon]

*bearing with you*

[quick raven]

bear*

😛

[open carbon]

😋

https://tenor.com/view/bear-gif-20541523

[quick raven]

I'm 3* (new, haven't ever left yet). I went into enough matches to have an idea what to expect in terms of difficulty.

On Saturday night, I had literally 2-3 hours of just getting my prostate examined every single match - most often by people I haven't seen.

Even my partner who introduced me to it and has 4-digit hours was talking like "Dude, this is the type of shit I see when I break into 5*"

[open carbon]

You should turn your screen back on

[open carbon]

Alright, I know exactly what you mean now

Things get weird when getting into 5* territory, it's scary

[quick raven]

Started seeing names that were suspicious (like not actual names, but random word/letter combinations, some in Mandarin, etc.).... Even looked up a couple profiles that solo'd our trio to find literally 10 pages worth of hacking accusations in his comments over multiple games.

[knotty ore]

What you are seeing is people playing on lower settings.

[open carbon]

You'll start seeing, or rather not seeing, more Cains and Headsmen than anything else along with "meta" guns etc

[quick raven]

That's just it... we aren't! He was 4-star at the time. Our other partner and I are new and only 3-star.

We started seeing combinations of people with like 3k hours mixed with people who had minimal hours.

[knotty ore]

The way Hunt works is hunters render at all distances, but terrain/foilage render at lower distances on lower settings. Meaning you can see hunters really far away like they are running on a flat surface.

[open carbon]

I'm always careful even then, might just be my brain being in energy saving mode, but I had experiences like this too, even below 5*

[knotty ore]

Most people in high MMR will use lower settings to increase visibility too. So, its much easier to spot people in general.

This works for fog too

[quick raven]

And then, tbh, I started getting PUBG flashbacks. I know eastern asian countries where "cheating" is often viewed differently - as just a part of the friendly competition... And I started to think "They're probably more active in US West due to ping."

Since I switched from US West, to US East... no problems at all.

[open carbon]

Also, seemingly, dust clouds from explosives... Feels like anyone can see through them but me and one buddy of mine

[knotty ore]

Same with smokes clouds from chokes.

I think clouds from explosives are harder to see through on lower settings they are just pure black.

Easier on high

[quick raven]

Not that consistently though. In 3-4*, people don't do that with such prevalence. It's Sweat Lords whose self-worth is determined by K/D and prestige ranking and shit who do that tbh.

[open carbon]

That's usually the most competitive setting yeah. Can't use that though, because it tanks my framerates. I unironically had to increase graphics settings to get more performance

[knotty ore]

Stutter?

Check your allocated memory setting in game

[open carbon]

Nah, avg fps

[knotty ore]

Oh, that's kinda odd

Unless you run 1080p

You could be CPU bound

[open carbon]

Stutters caused by low memory is another thing, but don't have that

[open carbon]

Yeah exactly, CPU is the bottle neck

[quick raven]

Given I play more for the fun aspect than the must win all the things! aspect, I'll take minor FPS hits to keep it looking sexiful.

[open carbon]

Can't run in 1440p though, performance goes to shit entirely

I need an upgrade

[quick raven]

😭

[open carbon]

That's it though. I can play with everything on high and get more frames than on low and ugly

[knotty ore]

That makes sense. Increasing settings pushes more processes to the GPU and increases performance.

[open carbon]

Yep

[quick raven]

🤣 weirdly counter-intuitive

[open carbon]

Was about to say that

It definitely is

[knotty ore]

My CPU is at like 15% usage in Hunt lol

[open carbon]

But I got an Ryzen 2600 🙈 As soon as I get my 5800x3d or 7800x3d, that's gonna be a thing of the past

[knotty ore]

Its not a very CPU heavy game

[quick raven]

Intel baby here.

[open carbon]

Unless you don't have Zen2 or Intel xD

[quick raven]

Still can't get over the "master race" complex w/ my CPU

[knotty ore]

I have a 13700K I think

[open carbon]

My CPU runs at 80+% for Hunt

Don't need additional heating in the winter

😂

[quick raven]

i9-9900K for me.

64GB RAM

2080 Ti

[open carbon]

Oh shut up 😭

[quick raven]

Not top of the line any more, but still punching above average I think

Don't shatter my illusion. I'll order an upgrade tonight. 🤣

[open carbon]

https://tenor.com/view/fu-middle-finger-gif-22855938

[quick raven]

🤣

Fair enough

[open carbon]

I'll have to wait till end of the year before I can afford anything

[quick raven]

I skipped the 3000-series. I've been thinking about making sure to snag a 4080 Ti

I have zero reason or need to, but I measure my self worth by my computer hardware, and I need a confidence boost.

[open carbon]

*cries in RTX 2060*

[quick raven]

It swings above its weight class

Good GPU tbh

[open carbon]

It's good in standard raterization, not so much with Raytracing though. There's almost no game that runs in playable frame rates even with ray tracing on low and DLSS on Ultra performance

Never even mind that DLSS on Ultra Performance looks like PS2 era graphics with how blurry it is

And the ghosting.. yuck

But I just play without RT and then it's really good. Still, I should've saved for sth better

[acoustic topaz]

can you ffs PLEASE fix the random DISCONNECTS?!?!?!? I lost 7 (level 50) Hunters already!!!!!!!!!!!! This fact might not frustrate a newbie or a content creator with millions of hunt dollars, BUT this is way too frustrating for a casual Hunt gamer, and a true fan of this game. I am no twitcher or youtuber pls fix it anyway. - be true to your roots

[open carbon]

This should also go into #bug-reports-pc and #latest-update-discussion if you haven't put it there already. I'm also shocked the bot didn't delete this already #game-ideas message

Just because of the formatting

[ripe basalt]

@analog willow Very good feedback suggestion. I will discuss this with the mod team. This is a valid point

[quick raven]

Not sure what you mean. The one time I DCed, right prior to the update, it allowed me to auto reconnect. Are you saying if you don't reconnect, it deletes your Hunter?

[quick raven]

@knotty ore question for you. Would your opinion on the rain change if you felt it was the lobby that chose rain as a group? If you knew it wasn't dev's "forcing" you to play, but the group collectively determined together (single cue, but still player choice) that they wanted to play rain or night or whatever? If it was like 7-5 vote even.

[quick raven]

Hoping you'd be on to discuss, but I was excited to post the idea. Please check it out and lemme know what you think: #game-ideas message

[open carbon]

@lethal dirge I'm sure this isn't the case, but it does very much sound like you only play the game for the rewards and not playing for the sake of playing

The rewards can't be the only motivation for you to play, right?

[lethal dirge]

No, not at all. But I’m going to speak up when my time is de-valued. I play to play, earning BBs passively through that gameplay has always been an extra incentive that made it feel like you were making progress. Now, it’s either follow the weeklies or get nothing.

[open carbon]

That's not entirely true though, you have to admit. Weeklys aren't the only source of BBs, you still get quite a few from dark tribute and from pouches

Since accolades got BB rewards removed I've earned about 400-500 bbs, not counting the weeklies and event rewards. But it's probably not about the amount for you

[lethal dirge]

That number is far, far, FAR lower than what you would be able to earn through gameplay though. 3 from a pouch or a rare register or dark tribute drop doesn’t make up for that difference, not by a long shot.

I just think it’s kind-boggling that people do so many mental gymnastics to rationalize the change, like crytek is starving for money or something. They almost definitely aren’t.

Defending a change that’s inconsiderate at best and malicious at worst towards the community, is just asinine.

[open carbon]

I'm not trying to defend it

[lethal dirge]

A decent player could easily earn 100+ a day if they had good games. Now? There’s no reward for grinding.

[open carbon]

Just trying to understand you

[lethal dirge]

I’m not saying you were, but there are those that do

[open carbon]

I also think more bbs = better

True

I'm also not complaining though because it's still free stuff I get, just not as much anymore

But I respect the grind so I get your point of view

I'm just not a grind guy myself ^^

I didn't even notice the changes for the first few days

[quick raven]

This is sort of why it's so hard for me to appreciate or empathize the opposing argument on this one.
It literally boils down to "I just deserve more free stuff."
You didn't lose anything that you've already invested, nothing was taken away. The decision was made - for whatever reason behind the scenes - that it was ineffective (again, by some criteria) to keep bleeding profit at the rate it was. Maybe it's because I work in a decent position for a billion dollar company, but I am familiar with the concept of "giving a dollar a week per person for tens of thousand of people is tens of thousands of dollars every f'king week that's being bled out of a company."
And if the decision was made to put a bandaid on it - particularly if people crunched numbers and determined the people who'd get pissy and play less would be more than offset by the additional revenue other people would put forward.... I'm not mad at a smart business decision, especially if it helps continue development.

I certainly appreciate the frustration.

But I can't share it.

Now talk about the annual cost increase to my Netflix subscription... and then you'll have an enraged ally. 🤣

[lethal dirge]

“Bleeding profit” my ass

[quick raven]

Excellent counterpoint.

[open carbon]

"bleeding profit" is a very business-esque mindset

[quick raven]

I retract my statement.

[open carbon]

xD

[quick raven]

[lethal dirge]

Well, you’re the one that ousted yourself as an actual corporate bootlicker, so yea.

[open carbon]

Come on now

[lethal dirge]

If you really have a decent position at a decent company, you’d know how much corporations waste on dumb things while hiking up prices on consumers to maintain a bottom line.

[quick raven]

Oh no. My pride. A likely broke bottomfeeder insulted me.
Let me go to the bank and withdraw something to wipe my eyes with. 🤣

[quick raven]

No, I know how much minimum-wage earners tend to think that though. 🤣

[lethal dirge]

I work in an office too buddy, I work with good money. And I know there’s absolutely no way crytek is hurting for money with how many new players there are and how many people buy DLC skins.

[quick raven]

And, when some of them start to rise through the ranks a bit, it's always cute to watch their eyes widen

[lethal dirge]

“You small money, me BIG money!”
What color is your Bugatti huh

Yea you sound like a slimy businessman

Yeesh.

[open carbon]

"Bleeding profit" to me is sth that's mostly based on speculation imo, every time a company sues someone for potential profit they missed out on is just bogus and I can't understand how that's allowed

[lethal dirge]

This dude talks like someone that pays women to love him.

How embarrassing.

[open carbon]

But both of you should not take this to a personal level and don't mock each other like that

[lethal dirge]

Yea you’re right

[open carbon]

More free stuff is better, that's what we all agree on, and we all now know that we feel differently when we get less free stuff than before

The reasons why it was changed really plays no part in that and we can't change capitalism here 😅

[lethal dirge]

Mr moneybags over here can just buy all the BB he wants, it sounds like.

[open carbon]

Now I want some Karen to come out and scream "did you just assume their gender?!" .. Someone, anyone, please? xD

Eat the rich

Oops

I didn't just do that, I hope mods didn't see it

Srsly though I don't blame people for having more money than me. Not ALL of them. :P

[quick raven]

Sorry, work called but I'll leave you with this:

I may be a corporate bootlicker, but I'm also senior management (probably Director in the next 5 years) in the Environmental, Safety & Health profession. Specifically, I oversee 80 locations (10,000 people) throughout the United States, and implement both safety and environmental policies to keep our employees safe, and the public safe (as well as our company compliant with all applicable municipal, state and federal regulations).

So while I'm a "corporate bootlicker" - what the f'k do you do with your existence that provides any benefit to the world?

I'll check in later once you think of something useful.

[lethal dirge]

Just say “fuck” dude

Lol

You aren’t impressing anyone

[quick raven]

To be fair, I don't know how this bot works. It prevented me from saying.... m0r0nic once. 🤷

[lethal dirge]

The fact that you’re coping this hard and trying to flex says everything about your ego

[quick raven]

No, it says how little I think of you.

[lethal dirge]

You know evading the filter is against the rules, right?

[quick raven]

Gues add that to the list of mean corporate things I do.

Also, still waiting.

[lethal dirge]

If you really thought that little, you would have moved on. Instead, I’m living rent free in your head, making you think you have to prove something to me. Kinda pathetic honestly, but also funny.

[open carbon]

Is it really that hard to stay polite you two? And stop flaming each other?

[lethal dirge]

Rent free.

[lethal dirge]

Oh I’m done, this guy just keeps coming back for more

[quick raven]

No, I just like you knowing that the "corporate bootlicker" is doing better things than you are complaining about corporate bootlickers.

It makes me warm and giddy.

[lethal dirge]

2 blocked messages, lol

[quick raven]

Now, I have to go eat dinner. Toodles.

[quick raven]

(Now we see who got to whom)

[open carbon]

I think me

I got you both

:P

[lethal dirge]

Based

[quick raven]

https://tenor.com/view/michael-scott-wink-yes-i-got-you-boo-gif-16575286

[open carbon]

*watches Rakki type a novel*

[lethal dirge]

Imagine thinking you have to prove your worth to a stranger on the internet. Yeesh. I feel bad for that guy.

Also hi rakki

[brisk timber]

The BB changes are anti consumer as a whole - whoever defending this without any second thought is corp simping pretty hard.

While its legit and fair for crytek as a company to change their business model it would have been also pretty fair if they have met players somewhere in between.

The Hunt economy and the freebies that were grindable via BBs was part of the fullprice titel people payed for. It was part of the reason why some people even payed for thr extra DLC with their money in the first place.

As example they could have atleast dropped the BB price for some older skins that came with the Base game and than moved on from that point.

But they just made a complete nerf to the BB economy across the board even for the old stuff that was once fairly obtainable.

[open carbon]

Oh yeah the pricing is another thing, you're right, they could've made more adjustments

Also thanks for pointing this out more.. It should be concerning how far the goal post has been moved that some, including me, are so indifferent to it

[lethal dirge]

Rakki knows what’s up

[lethal dirge]

Feel free to make your opinion known on my post in the suggestions channel

[brisk timber]

Tbh thats just common sense
If youre a player that has been in hunt for longer atleast
The BB economy was a legit part of hunt
Whales could buy and nolifers could grind
The system was in balance 😄

[open carbon]

You should expand your suggestion with all these points so you get more people who can relate

[open carbon]

It was peaceful in the valley of winds

[knotty ore]

No because I'm still being forced to play it. But, if everyone gets to chose their preferences and on the off chance that everyone is choosing rain and I wouldn't get a queue pop otherwise and it puts me in thats fine.

[brisk timber]

I already did write feedback here and in reddit. Got in pretty tense arguments.

People defending it like they legit thought Hunt was pulling in red numbers and would die tomorrow. Crytek was pretty good at making it sound like it.
While the truth probably is more like Hunt is Cryteks cashcow keeping the company and their other shit departments (crysis...) afloat.

[open carbon]

I think their idea as it's described in the suggestions has some merit at least.. If all get to vote that way, it would still be "random" in terms of having to commit to a loadout beforehand, but it would be fairer than a completely split player base at least. I guess it wouldn't solve anyone leaving the match if they don't like what they get

[open carbon]

Yeah we've been there a few times 😅

[brisk timber]

The people are not wrong when they say hunt needs to be profitable in the future. The changes are needed yea.

But they are even taking all the old stuff and making it part of the new economy. Thats pretty shit.

[open carbon]

@chilly nova #game-ideas message more a thing for #bug-reports-pc I think, because it's more a bug and not a feature request

[brisk timber]

So who says that they arent pulling prestige skins or trials skins in the future? Put them in BB market or some shit.
At this point i wouldnt wonder about it.

They should just havent touched older stuff and be a little less greedy.

[open carbon]

Agreed, if they move the goal post once, we should expect them to do it again and again. That there's no trials or rewards for DeSalle is kinda telling there, too

[lethal dirge]

I got lazy 😔 and also I was on mobile at the time

[chilly nova]

I'm guessing it's intended to still be open, since it was open before.

[open carbon]

But not being able to close it?

[open carbon]

No worries, there will be more suggestions like that

[chilly nova]

You can close it if you manage to click the right key fast enough

[open carbon]

After getting picked back up?

[chilly nova]

Plus, if the "wrong" discord channel really matters that much, then they're intake pipeline isn't very good

[open carbon]

Haven't had this happen that's why I am asking

[chilly nova]

yes

[open carbon]

I think just that bugs are a higher priority than feature requests

[brisk timber]

And then some clown comes along and says "yOu WAnT tO gET pAyEd foR pLaYinG"
Hell what?
No. But this shit was once part of the game i paid for and now it gets changed slowly and make everything for me unobtainable that once wasnt. The game i payed for is getting changed and thats not fair.

[open carbon]

Then it might actually not be a bug, you're right

[chilly nova]

Sure, but they should be able to easily re-categorize (in Jira or whatever they use) it as a bug instead of a feature if they decide it's a bug

[open carbon]

Point taken

Still, can't hurt to put it there as well ;D

[open carbon]

Yeah. It isn't. I hate how far this has gone in the industry as a whole

[chilly nova]

True, I don't have much trust that they'll change it anyway

[brisk timber]

A fair suggestion at this point would be as a sign of good will of crytek:

Every skin obtainable per BB prior to the economy nerf gets reduced in its base price by like 50% BB across the board. This skins could be seen as "legendary status" skins. Future skins will have normal pricing as Hunt moves on as a game as a service model.

[open carbon]

Legendary legendaries :D

[brisk timber]

This is a compromiss.
No right or wrong. Meeting in the middle. But thats what people defending the changes cant see somehow.

[open carbon]

I'd like that, but I wouldn't "profit" from it, got all the skins already except a few newer ones

I'm poor, but according to the stats, I'm probably a whale to them xD

[brisk timber]

Than i think youre fine anyway. Got everything out of the basegame.
For newer players its shit.

[open carbon]

Agreed

It's still commendable though that they actually went and removed p2w elements

[brisk timber]

Yea but this shit was outright ridiculous to begin with tbh

[open carbon]

It was there when I got the game, but not sure if it was always like that. But here it comes: If it was, that's a point against us

[brisk timber]

I wish we had a poker table to bet BBs against other players lol

[open carbon]

Hmm I wonder how that could be implemented

[rotund obsidian]

gambling with a currency purchasable with real money? 💀 hell naw that would not fly

[open carbon]

Let it be Hunt Dollars then

[rotund obsidian]

that'd be pretty funny, i wouldnt be upset about that

[brisk timber]

A social ingame hub in general would be fairly dope. Like a saloon

[open carbon]

Can't say "surviving teams take the spoils" or "bounty team takes the spoils" because that would just cause people to cheese the game

Or a church

For Reverend and Hail Mary mains

[brisk timber]

Ok but than with a moonshine distillery in the basement!

[open carbon]

Sorry but it's not moonshine they make there :P

It's concertina bombs

The curse of the Bayou has to be cut out of the flesh of man and beast. That's what the old book says. So they chain the blades of the sculptor's wrath into these weapons of cleansing

[quick raven]

Sorry back from dinner. Regarding cosumer-friendliness, that's sort of in the eyes. They could have told you to eat ass and taken everything away. The idea that .. well, if defending it is "Corp simping" what is "they're giving me free shit, but it's still not enough" deepthroating on? What's the antithesis to what you're accusing me of ? 🤣

Addressing you more specifically, how long have you played?

And, over the years - how many free BB have you received? Could you put a monetary quantity to it?

[quick raven]

Regarding this idiocy: it wasn't PART of the game. It was free extra bonus.

It's as fully challenged as saying Netflix is wrong for stopping you from sharing passwords "CuZ iT was always InCluDed In thE prIce"
No. Anyone with asemi functional brainstem knows you weren't paying for that feature. It was just some shit they allowed and then stopped.

You didn't "pay for" being given premium shit for free. They allowed you to have free shit as simply a courtesy for paying for what you ACTUALLY bought - the game. And then after years of free shit, then they stopped.

Wait, that's right, they didn't stop... they just stopped giving you AS MUCH free shit. And years of courtesy wasn't enough for some entitled people

[open carbon]

Trololo Netflix actually advertised with "love is sharing your Netflix password"

[quick raven]

I remember that too!

I'm actually amazed a competitor hasn't jumped on that with mass marketing

[brisk timber]

Sorry but i wont agree on this take.
They shipped a game with a price tag and grinding those BB was a legit part of it.
It got patched over time more and more.
They basically changed the product i bought into.

[quick raven]

"Fuck them, we WANT YA to share. Vanek them and buy us"

[quick raven]

Tell me with a straight face and a single atom of integrity that you'd be using that argument if they increased the BB amount. "They changed the product, them evil corporate bitches."

I think we both know you wouldn't, because that argument is full of it

[brisk timber]

Theres enough people that would even do this.
"newer players can now have everything i had to work for!!! Thats shit"

Just sayin

But ofc i wouldnt say that and you know why? Because im a customer and im arguing from the pov of a customer.

I start to wonder if you maybe work a cryteks safety Regulation department or some shit 🤡

[quick raven]

Let me ask a hypothetical....

Do you think they have an obligation to fix bugs and server issues? Or is that also just "part of the full game you bought" and in the name of every god ever, they better not change it

[quick raven]

I'm not asking about others. I'm asking about YOU.

[brisk timber]

Dude. Its a whole difference if they Start changing newer pricing or some shit OR retroactively change pricing on all the stuff

[quick raven]

Ooooh. So suddenly it's not part of the deal if it's shit you don't agree with.

[brisk timber]

I even said i wouldnt care if newer skins came with higher pricing

[lethal dirge]

Rakki what color is your Bugatti

Clearly we should just pay for bb

Stop being poor

[quick raven]

That's actually a good first step

[brisk timber]

Man i cant stand this shit thinkin in extremes both ways

I even made a suggestion for a compromiss

[stark fulcrum]

I expect a company that intends to provide a service. A live game in this case, to charge an ongoing fee for something in order to stay afloat and continue to make dlcs and additions to the game. Ill continue to be a customer as long as that fee is reasonable and in this case completely optional. To expect them to just give free game currency and free everything else is the mentality of an entitled child.

They changed bbs (which is for skins btw and no way a must buy i.e pay to win) in order to keep a flow of income coming in and keep people employed there.

This isn't directed at anyone here its just my opinion on the matter of bbs.

[quick raven]

Let's play a new game. "Guess the balance of the EBT card"

[quick raven]

I honestly don't either. But when people refuse to have the faculty to even try to see the opposing argument, i have neither obligation nor inclination to entertain half measures and compromise. In the words of the great philosopher DMX, "If it's fuck me then you know it's fuck you."

[brisk timber]

I agree.

The problem is just they changed everything that this BB economy touches. Even stuff that was already developed and expanses are covered 5 years ago.
They even raised pricing for this old skins.

I wouldnt care if they focus on future addition pricing higher. But they just went full lockdown on everyrhing once fairly obtainable.

[stark fulcrum]

If it was an essential element to my gameplay I'd be pissed, but its just skins, costumes.

[brisk timber]

Yea but thats like the end to all argument tbh

Lets have polygon models

Pay for color

[stark fulcrum]

I mean its true. It's not loot boxes its skins.

Loot boxes with some random legendaries and guns that are better

Its just dumpy skins lol

Also they made trait changes and hp changes along with gun cleaning all bb free

[quick raven]

I never even got to that point yet, tbh. But that's the icing on the cake for me. Not only does the argument boil down to "I don't get enough free shit" (and we know it's not really about changing the game because we already agreed we'd turn into church mice if we thought it gave us more stuff... is specifically about recording less free stuff at their expense.

Not only is it that, but it's ultimately optional skins and such, not actual game elements...

It is just wild to me

[brisk timber]

Yea i just dont like changing stuff that was like agreed on in the past

Its like this shit they try to pull on cars now where you have to pay premium for extra turbo ps i your new bmw or some shit

[quick raven]

This last part is a reasonable argument and I'd like to address it.

[brisk timber]

Its ridiculous retroactively change things that were granted before

[quick raven]

The idea of "increase all the prices on the future". I think that is more negatively impactful on the game than this could ever hope to be

Ultimately they have your and my money. And they've used it. Whether development, operational costs, payroll, whatever. They're not sitting on a dragon horde. I think we can agree on that

The idea that this change might make you leave and not but their next DLC.... that means very little in the scheme. What, you're denying them $15.

But look at it inversely... if they increase the prices say... 3, 4 bucks? Make the game $49 instead of 39...

THAT impacts what they really need. New people who are going to come in, but the game and then but shit loads of DLC.

Not that it WILL. But it COULD. and ultimately you make business decisions on risk.

Not just business decisions from THEIR perspective, but from OURS (continued development)

Decisions that could turn away future consumers is a much higher risk than driving you or me or... whomever away

[brisk timber]

Didnt say they should increase game price in the future.
The regular $15 discount is probably pretty good to pull in new people without making other create acc after acc in a f2p title.

What i meant was i wouldnt care if they drain the BB flow if they put old skins to their old pricing and put the furure BB skins at higher.

Or even double down on paid DLC

Hell i think like $8-10 for those dlc packs was ridiculous before

But atleast we had some grindable BB skins to make up for

(Thats what i meant by the BB economy made me buy DLC)

[quick raven]

They're still 8-10?

At least 90% of them

[brisk timber]

They started at like $5-6 i thinl

Usually new dlc packs are around $9 now

Without sales ofc

[quick raven]

Yeah, now I'm not sure they changed? I just bought Revenant over the weekend for $6.99. No discount or sale

I point that out specifically because I think that's an old one

[brisk timber]

Well you see im not against paying for stuff and i do. But i just hate this boiling the frog method of retroactively changing old things.

Back in the day there were no dlc cosmetics battlepasses and all this stuff. You played a game. You put in hours. You unlocked some cool armor or weapon.

Felt like Hunt BB economy was a bit like this before and now isnt. Or hardly is.

[quick raven]

I just had to check

[brisk timber]

For now writing about that here is all i can do and vote with my wallet for the little effect it has

[quick raven]

The price for at least that one didn't change

[brisk timber]

The DLCs are priced o-kayishly
The older once a bit fairer than the newer once tho.

Its mostly the BB economy they pulled into the trashbin

900BB for a vetterli skin

Its like $8 or $9 ? For 1 weapon skin

[quick raven]

Oh, I encourage that. The consumer is always in control with their wallet. It's the bemoaning and bellyaching and tugging on one's own sack with no actual thought about larger picture that disgusts me and for which I have little respect.

Not directed at you, directed at Mr Fight-The-Power since he's still checking my posts.

[quick raven]

Sec, lemme check since I just did the battle pass thing

$24.99 for 3150.

About $7.14 for that skin

I get it though, that's excessive for the SINGLE SKIN.

[brisk timber]

So yea
You would get a dlc with a hunter and like 3 other skins for that

bb eco is busted

[quick raven]

I'd prefer a character skin and weapon skin for that price

(I say character skin because, at its root, that's all the hunters are - different skins, no actual functional difference)

[brisk timber]

Wouldnt wonder if they slowly rise the DLC price over the next year to like $12-15

Atleast its upfront and visible

[quick raven]

I hope not. At that price, they'd need to have more than skins, IMO. They'd need to hide genuine CONTENT behind DLC. And, that's where I bow out.

[brisk timber]

Thats another thing of premium curency shenanigans. Its made to seperate consumer from feeling spending money

But yea. Thats not a crytek specific thing

[brisk timber]

So yea maybe that explains why this BB change gets to some people. With that pricing of skins the BB grinding was a part of the game for many without paying ridiculous summs (it was for the whales). If they wanted to spend money they did on DLC. Some even bought all the $320 worth of it..
Cutting those players off of the BB flow feels like they bite the hand which fed them

[quick raven]

Nah, I get that, but I think it's a bit of tunnel vision to feel that way. Someone said they used to get 100BB a week. Lemme do some quick math...

[brisk timber]

Thats the thing. In many peoples eyes the BB econmy was like some ingame feature. It was so many BB people have all those skins and even than like 5k BB in the backhand if they played much and for years.

The real money was always spend on DlCs and that what dlcs were for. Occasilnally some skin was added to the perceived free BB market. It was the basic principle of a games as a service thing wher e you had the Option to grind or pay for a shortcut.

Now its only pay. Pay across the board. Or 1-2 skins a years.

[quick raven]

At the current price that's about .80... if they even did that for a year, that's 41.60$ worth of free currency handed out just in that period. Like I see how it can feel like having the rug pulled out, but I feel like a deeper inspection shows that they either paid me back for the entire base game or have me 5 DLC worth of free BB

I can't make myself think that, deciding to ratchet it down after that much goodwill is actually unfair

[brisk timber]

Well thats why i said those skins were like part of the base game. This free grind for skins was a part.

The real paid stuff has always been the DLCs

They should just get rid of this fuckin BB currency shit alltogether

Make the old BB grindable by playing and make future stuff DLC

atleast it would be transparent

[quick raven]

I could agree with that. But I think they THEN would have to get rid of the free premium skins though.

Like they're still backing on making money on those old skins

Hoping that period would prefer to but the BB or DLC than grind for it.