feedback-discussion

[willow burrow]

There are cards that are printed with constructed in mind - they have synergies with other cards or are good if you can consistently draw them on curve. @echo forum

and there are cards that just represent a good 'value' so when you draft them in a limited event they are 'playable'

[unborn smelt]

Those diffrent rulesets may limit what cards can be played

[echo forum]

I'll stick to black jack

more on my mental level

[willow burrow]

haha yea

Anyway I was having a quick thought and I realized even when people play these highly competitive games it's often that in tourneys and competitions the brackets are decided by rng so even the best players are influenced by what matchups they play (in whatever game)

it would be most 'fair' and in 'competitive' spirit to just play round robin with many matches between two players/teams but how fun would that really be? Variance is also important.

[echo forum]

that isn't RNG though. IF you lose round 1 to team A you would probably lose round 2 to them anyway. Also position in ladders is usually decided by placements in a previous season/tourney

[unborn smelt]

yes and that's where we go full circle

Where in Hunt people just have varying expectations for how much variance and fun goes to gether with how much fairness

[willow burrow]

True

[unborn smelt]

Some want it as fair as possible even if that means reducing visuals and athmosphere - where others don't give a shit about maybe being at a disadvantage sometimes but have max immersion and atmosphere

[willow burrow]

I can agree Hunt would probably not make a good esport so if that's the definition of competitive game for you I will agree.

[echo forum]

Yeah lots of RnG already I don't know if I could handle more. Feels bad having someones arm block your crossbow bolt or getting headshot from 50m by dualies etc a grenade randomly deciding to hit through a wall

[echo forum]

competitions are USUALLY supposed to be measures of skill. Luck is not a skill.

[unborn smelt]

well neither of those are really RNG...

Hitting an arm is mostly your aim and there is set rules for when nades deal dmg "through walls". More often that not those are not rng (yes sometimes bugs or circumstances make it RNG tho)

[echo forum]

duali headshots are RNG lol they can hit you no where near centre of xhair for headshot

[unborn smelt]

that however is - yes

[echo forum]

the arm game happen because someone switches weapon or aims there gun up and now you're hitting a different hitbox

[unborn smelt]

dualies, hipfire in general, to a degree shotgun spread, resource, Ai, Boss, extract, spawn point spawns

[echo forum]

the grenade is rng too though because it's not supposed to go through walls like dynamite does...but sometimes does for full dmg and sometimes just enough to make you bleed.

like throw a hive bomb at enemy hunter....it doesn't move 2feet away from him and then flies at me

lmao

[unborn smelt]

those are essentially only RNG

[echo forum]

someone shoots immolator and he 180 and chases me down 30m away

[unborn smelt]

where hitting arms can be circumvented by for example choosing a diffrent attack angle - like from behind

[unborn smelt]

all explosives are meant to go around cover to a degree

[echo forum]

that's not true either because when people do the swtich weapon animation their back becomes like 50% their arm

[echo forum]

frags are designed to go through solid walls?

[unborn smelt]

well issue with that is the feeling of what happened and what actually happened is usually out of sync

[echo forum]

the blast can randomly decide to go around cover though and not pen through a crack

[unborn smelt]

often people think it goes "through a solid wall" but maybe the thrower just knew a good angle to yeet it through or there was a gap in the "solid wall" you weren't aware of

[unborn smelt]

no it cannot

[echo forum]

you can live because a bucket blocking the blast and die through 2 doors

walls*

[willow burrow]

can't say that's my experience

[unborn smelt]

it has a set amount of "wrap around dmg" where it goes through cracks and around edges

however it can bug out sometimes. But in the end the majority is it working as intended

[echo forum]

I used to die to them through walls a lot lol

[unborn smelt]

used to in the past - sure, that's why they got adjusted

but in the end they adjusted them because they were unpredictable, not because they randomly go through walls afaik

I will however admit they don't have a good way to make them predictable

[echo forum]

I don't die to them through walls as much but they do still get me killed by someone making me light bleed through multiple walls or even a floor and giving away my position as someone rushes with a shotgun after they hear the sound

we also have buggy sound where you don't hear dynamite cook

frag death should be determined by # of shrapnel hitting not just getting hit by one piece within a certain radius for the kill

[unborn smelt]

The maps are highly detailed with many small holes and cracks and they don#t show where an explosive landed on the killscreen

i think especially the last part - if they could change that would go a long way in making them more understandable and predictable

[queen jungle]

It's no more or less RNG in tat regard than other guns. When hip-firing, all guns in Hunt can hit anywhere within the outer border or the crosshair.

[echo forum]

yeah but the brick walls don't have holes in them usually and I have over 1300 hours lol. Enough to know what cover to use. Not a l33t gamer but not a noob.

[echo forum]

which is a bad system imo

[unborn smelt]

kind of like how CoD's killcam follows a thrown grenade, so you can see where it actually exploded

[echo forum]

but other hipfires aren't nearly as generous as dualies otherwise there would be way more clips of them hipfiring from 50m away

[queen jungle]

What do you mean by generous? It's not like bullets from dual pistols are head-seeking or anything.

[crystal plume]

Winfield with no levering is way more accurate with hip fire than duals lol

[echo forum]

they seem to have less deviation out of the crosshair and you can spam them unlike most other weapons

[crystal plume]

And it was actually a trend amongst the streamers for a while to go for hipfire shots for fun

[echo forum]

yet you never see people spamming levering over ADS at more than 15m

[crystal plume]

The reason you don't see many clips of it is because there's no reason to usually go for them in normal play because you can, well, aim?

Actually I have seen that

But again, after a certain range it's better to aim anyways

It's not really complicated

With duals you cannot aim, so you are forced into essentially hip firing even at range

[echo forum]

you can aim with dualies and that's what makes the RNG cone give more and more headshots

[crystal plume]

While with other guns it's a choice, a choice people usually don't take because there's no reason to when you can ADS, but that doesn't mean that their hipfire is worse than duals

"Aim"

[echo forum]

bro that aim seems to reduce to rng cone to a level that putting crosshair anywhere within a few pixels of hutner gives you a good chance of getting a HS

[crystal plume]

"Seems"

But does it actually

[echo forum]

if you shoot wall it looks like it does if bullet impacts are accurate

[unborn smelt]

Dualies aren't accurate

they have a more accurate hipfire in aimed mode than a regulyr guns hipfire

but they are very far from actually accurate as guns in ADS are

[echo forum]

that's not what I'm saying at all. I'm saying the cone is reduce when you "aim" them and its enough that it gives you consistent lucky headshots

[unborn smelt]

well the latter is purely anecdotal evidence

for me for example it doesn't

I'm far better off aiming that hoping for RNG to click head

[echo forum]

aim at chest level and spam with dualies you will get headshots

[unborn smelt]

I did a lot - and no i din't get many

[echo forum]

i get bullshit headshots in quickplay all the time with the starting dualies

[unborn smelt]

sure i got some - But in the end dualies are rng, if you like it or not.

well then lucky you i guess

if it works for you sure - but that doesn't change the fact that dualies cannot ADS and thus factually aren't accurate.
Mechanically all they get is wide hipfire - and a bit narrower hipfire

[echo forum]

at the ranges you would be using a pistol they aren't even that inaccurate. You can easily 2 tap people with accuracy up to 40m with the "aim"

maybve 30m

[unborn smelt]

yeah but people use pistols up to 100m because if you can aim you can actually rely on HS dmg

and if you are within 30m you can actually ensure a 2 tap, which dualies are incapable of.

Sure you may get many 2 taps with em that close - but unlike an officer you cannot guarantee that you land 2 upper body hits back to back

[echo forum]

wdym at 30m dualies way more accurate than fanning so most of the pistols you're gunna get 2 tapped with dualies before you 2 tap them. 100m with pistol? Yeah uppercut and maybe conversion fmj if the enemy doesn't move lol. But even then idk.

sparks pistol too i forgot

[unborn smelt]

I'm not talking about fanning

I'm talking about the uption to ADS

Which fanning doesn't take away either

[unborn smelt]

100m is jsut a rough estimate - uppercut can go to ~130 now, FMJ pistol to roughly 100 IIRC. Point still being with the ability to ADS you can go for headshot ranges on pistols

[echo forum]

for sure but people are taking dualies with bush camper loadouts so they can spam you through bushes and dps race you

or fmj dual headshot you through walls

[unborn smelt]

And what does that have that do to with them being apparently more accurate ?

[echo forum]

bruh I never said they were more accurate than ADS a gun...

I said they have too accurate of a hipfire

they easily get RNG rewarded that other guns dont get because of sure RoF

[unborn smelt]

Well that's again just anecdotal evidence...
For you it may work

[echo forum]

I can ADADADADDDA spam my shots and make it hell for the other guy to land a headshot while I ay just get lucky

[unborn smelt]

that assumes the other one is going to let it happen, and not you know out aim, out position you or just get lucky

Yes dualies aren't as bad as many that hate them make it seem - but nor are they as good as many that also hate them make it seem

they are purely RNG in nature and thus highly polarizing - both in how they perform for people and in how they feel to people

[echo forum]

it's a lot harder and slower to make an accurate flick vs someone ADADADDA spamming going for RNG. You usually have to shoot on your counter s trafe to have accuracy. It's very hard to have consistent aim while randomly mashing strafes

[unborn smelt]

It's really easy not not let people get that close to beginn with...

it's really easy to zone people with throwables

it's really easy to just walk away from someone just spamming inaccurate shots at you

[echo forum]

no..no it's not at all lol. I don't fight in open I usually on peek and go back to reposition.

you can easily get domed through wall after

[unborn smelt]

and you can easily miss all 12 to 30 shots you have trying to fish for wallbangs

It's just rng - it isn't particularly deep

either you survive long enough to get lucky or your enemy has the skill to kill you before that happens

[echo forum]

the second grunt was 55m away lol

[echo forum]

this is literally what I'm saying is bullshit is that it's RNG but you have almost as much of a chance to get a headshot as miss

aim with the dualies and the con of fire is a lot smaller

[unborn smelt]

you are stationary - the grunts are staionary. So you don't have the moving accuracy debuff and have 0 tracking to do and you have 0 danger because the enemy is neither trying to break Los making it harder for you to track nor are they shooting you putting you under preassure to get lucky before they kill you

[frosty garnet]

@sinful creek, your post below has been deleted, as it doesn't follow the required format.
You can find all guidelines pinned in the ideas channel.

Please feel free to re-post your idea using the correct format:
Matched regex in message in #game-ideas (#suggestions-ideas, 524577494863708180):

Shock Damage:
An additional condition type that does no extra damage, but impairs aim/movement,  and, with intense shock, cause the hunter to involuntarily fire trigger based weapons.
- Light Shock: Causes shaking when aimed down sights
- Medium Shock: Same as Light but with forced stops when moving
- Intense Shock: Same as Medium but the hunter may involuntarily pull their trigger
Can be prevented or cured with a insulating shot or salve.

I think it would translate well to ammo types, traps, consumables and enemies eg. electric waterdevils and a giant electric waterdevil boss```

[analog forge]

One could make the same argument against single ads guns

[unborn smelt]

well yes and no. With an ADS'd gun you can still ensure a hit given your skill is sufficient, moving straight up reduces the chances you hit for dualies by decreasing hipfire accuracy.

And dualies are far more affected by preassure when being shot at because unlike with actual ADS you cannot minimize TTK, as you're bound to RNG

And on top of that - i never said guns with ADS aren't affected by movement - i just say that the vid he sends in not a good representation of him saying Dualies are too strong because you can ADAD wiggle until you get a random headshot on an enemy

[elder sequoia]

no one wants to remove arm shots i'll just keep abusing it thanks bye

[unborn smelt]

I mean you're not exactly bringing any convincing arguments why limbshots should not be a thing...

[elder sequoia]

i don't need to argue i'm gonna play

my arm is a good riot shield

[unborn smelt]

okay then, have a great time

[elder sequoia]

bye

[unborn smelt]

You do know that there is limb pen right ?

for all guns, just not for cold weapons like Bow or x-bows, or tomahawks and throwing knives

just putting it out there so other, maybe new people that read this don't get confused

[woeful fulcrum]

@elder sequoia lol I was talking about the death trading system, where both people kill each other at the same time a lot (which should be something that happens but way more of a rarity, like extremely rare)

[elder sequoia]

i think that's an intended feature

the devs think it's funny how in every teamfight at least 4 people go down shooting each other in the face and both falling down in the that same boring death animation game after game it's funny

doesn't make sense until you realize hunt showdown is a comedy game

[queen jungle]

Please keep it to serious suggestions only.

[little carbon]

@mellow current you know that MMR is just KDA with the addition of factoring in how good the kills were. And also accounts for your recent skill instead of an all time average

[elder sequoia]

i was serious about removing arm shots do you know what a buillet does to an arm see kenosha for example

[mellow current]

i've seen people with a kd of 1,30 while having 3 starts and a kd of 0,70 with 3 stars all in one lobby. i think that's unfair

[little carbon]

@woeful fulcrum why should low ping be favoured. Favouring the better shot seems like a better way

[woeful fulcrum]

favoring the better shot? also I'm not going to get into a high ping, low ping discussion with you or anyone. Everyone seems pretty dug in to their trenches. I'm merely pointing out different systems that prove viability

[little carbon]

The issue is that there are multiple timelines. In short: Trades happen if the low ping players information reaches the server first in global time, but the high ping player made the faster shot when when comparing both local client timelines.
The important thing to notice here is that if the high ping player had low ping, only they would have gotten a kill.
That is of course separat from natural trades caused by bullet velocity.

[queen jungle]

The trading system is simply fair. And removing the way it works now would just lead to lots of "but I shot first, why did I did and not the other player" complaints.

For some reason people always seem to think they'd naturally be the one to survive

Favouring low ping doesn't really make sense to me except giving those who live closer to the servers an advantage 🤔

[little carbon]

Because it always looks like that on their screen. It's just because no client holds absolute truth

[woeful fulcrum]

can someone please message me and tell me why that last comment was blocked?

[queen jungle]

You used a word for male genitalia that's part of the word filter

[woeful fulcrum]

ah ok thanks

not to sound like a mean person but have you researched how other games do it? other games with instantaneous TTK? trading is the furthest thing from fair and every other game with instantaneous TTK dev's know that and have better systems implemented than what is in this game.

I guess what i'm saying is if it's such a great system than how come most other games of the same type don't operate off that system and instead have a much different system that doesn't have half the server dying to each others shotguns?

[queen jungle]

How is it not fair? If the server realises that both players shot while they were still alive and happened to hit each other, those shots should be valid, shouldn't they?

[woeful fulcrum]

what the ping cap again? 215?

I'll use 180 for the example

I'm bad at math so this is going to take a while btw

ok so 180 ms is .18 seconds x 60 frames is 10 frames.... except it's actually double that cause it also has to travel to enemies computer so that's 20 frames. Someone peaking around a corner with 180 ping has an extra 20 frames of freedom to get their shot off before the other person sees them at all. Reverse that for trading and they get an extra 20 frames to get the shot off for a trade. It's why instant TTK games favor low ping.

[unborn smelt]

nah fam

because the shots don't go off until they reach the server

[queen jungle]

Ping has no relevance since shots and hits are validated by the server. The game doesn't just take the higher ping player's data and processes it without checking it first. Neither does it take your data without doing so.

[unborn smelt]

which is the same 180ms delay that gave then the "advantage"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXEmbUkDkgo That's a visualisation of why wht you describe doesn't work in games with clientside hitreg and serverside validation

[woeful fulcrum]

rainbow six siege has a system that favors low ping, I've watched that video too, hunt doesn't have that same system

that video is null and void when discussing hunts system

[unborn smelt]

yes hunt also has clientside hitreg and serverside validation

[untold prism]

What's the source on that?

[woeful fulcrum]

except it allows all bullets to go through

[unborn smelt]

https://www.huntshowdown.com/news/the-state-of-hit-registration-in-hunt

[unborn smelt]

^^

[untold prism]

Finally, something else other than "because I said so" or " because the dev's said so"

[unborn smelt]

I mean it's the blog the devs wrote so kind of the devs said so...
But then again, who else would one want/expect to explain the system the devs built if not the devs

[untold prism]

Good stuff here, but the outcome doesn't seem to match the desired effect.

[woeful fulcrum]

ok, well I've watched and read both and I guess you guys are just not going to get out of both of those things what I get out of both of those things. It's funny because everyone points to those things but I've never once heard anyone explain to me how 20 extra frames for 180 ms is fair.

[untold prism]

Typically I get the "dev's said so" from other mods

[queen jungle]

They usually did, but we don't always have the links to time stamps in videos at hand nor the time to look for them

Generally you can trust us not to tell BS

[untold prism]

Right, but our experiences/opinions are written off as anecdotal?

[woeful fulcrum]

^^ even more so than that

[untold prism]

I don't trust you not to tell BS, I expect you not too, which is generally what I get, so that's nice

[unborn smelt]

well thing is that unless there's actual proof it's hard to believe ones word if it stands in direct conflict to what the devs stated they programmed

[woeful fulcrum]

I've tried to talk about how hunts system is legitamately different from pubg and rainbow six and that information is actually right there in both hunts hit reg blog and that rainbow six siege video but for some reason everyone with power in the hunt community doesn't see it

[unborn smelt]

and regarding feelings we read so mayn each day - often complete opposites that it's hard to filter out whats true and what not

[untold prism]

Yeah, the appeal authority argument. It's a high expectation from a group of people expected to record, compile and post every event and still be written off.

True that

[unborn smelt]

the trading changes for example were made due to player feedback

[crimson verge]

rangor do you sleep you were on when i went to sleep last night and your still on now

[unborn smelt]

people came here and complained about shots not registering with video proof - the devs investigated and found shots being wrongfully invalidated at the time of death

[woeful fulcrum]

yea because people with low ping were watching blood spurt out of players and still dying to them without getting a hit reg and dying to their hands and they would see that it was some australian playing on west...

[untold prism]

And if the pendulum swings too far the other way?

We'll see

[unborn smelt]

I sure do - I am usually online till ~23:00 - 00:00 and then throughout the day when work allows it

CEST btw

[unborn smelt]

blood is not an indication of a hit

blood is a clientside effect - only the hitmarker is the feedback that you hit

So if you see blood but no hitmarker it means your client claimed a hit but the server said no and invalidated it

[woeful fulcrum]

yea cause I was "dead" even though I wasn't

[crimson verge]

sorry to interrupt the conversation you all are having but do you know if anything is going to happen with the invite system since steam limits the amount of people you can add in a week?

[unborn smelt]

sadly i don't know anything about that.

[feral timber]

this is kind of annoying ngl

[crimson verge]

ok it was something I brought up in the idea tab showing what steam support responded with saying you have to wait until there counter resets because you have sent to many friends requests and hit your limit.

[feral timber]

I'm trying to follow this conversation, correct me if I'm wrong but is it that ping has little to no effect?

[unborn smelt]

well no - ping very much affects peekers advantage

but people usually think it's the peekers ping that gives the peeker an advantage

[woeful fulcrum]

that's the biggest part of my argument

[unborn smelt]

but what actually happens is that peekers advantage gets bigger the higher the defenders ping

[woeful fulcrum]

.... explain how it isn't

[unborn smelt]

#feedback-discussion message this video explains why

[woeful fulcrum]

Ok in that video the dedicated servers are set up to delete bullets if the defending persons ping is lower, they say that in the video... but hunts dedicated servers don't delete bullets for that same reason

that's why the systems are different

[unborn smelt]

In short people think the peeker gets an advantage when peekking because it takes the info that he's peeking a long time to reach the server - but when the peeker shoots, the info for his shots has the same delay the peek had so they negate each other

[woeful fulcrum]

that would be true if hunts dedicated deleted bullets

[unborn smelt]

As such the defender only needs to kill the peeker on the server before the attackers killshots info reaches the server

[woeful fulcrum]

yes, again if hunts dedicated deleted bullets, but it doesn't

[unborn smelt]

and to do that the defender needs to react in the time that is [attackers reaction time] - 2 * [defenders ping]

[unborn smelt]

yes it does

the diffrence between hunt and Siege is hunt is projectile based while siege is hitscan

[woeful fulcrum]

no where in that blog that i've read several times does it say that... so where are you getting that information

[unborn smelt]

so in Hunt the projectiles shot after death serverside are invalidated - while bullets created serverside before dying persist after death

[woeful fulcrum]

that can't possibly be true because I've died to people while they were already dead on my screen, and in fact, when they "fixed" the bug of seeing bullets hit enemies and them not dying, they were making it so that bullets stopped getting invalidated

the only invalidation that happens is communication between client and dedicated where cover is involved

[unborn smelt]

*"So if a client claims that he has hit a shot, the hit validation system will run a number of validation strategies to confirm what the client claimed. If it is deemed legitimate, the shot will be considered a hit.

The validation strategies involve looking at the past history of the world state (matching the delay at which that client is seeing the world) and figuring out if a gunshot—from the client's position, at that point in the map, with that aiming direction, using that weapon, with that ammunition—should have hit the target, according to the records the server had on each player involved in the damage contention."*

[woeful fulcrum]

that is a general explanation of hit reg, which is how all these games operate, I want to know specifcally how they deal with dead hunters bullets...

[unborn smelt]

afaik - if they were shot before dying they remain active and lethal. (this is what lead to the "trading change" as before they were erroneously invalidated) if they were shot after dying they are invalidated.

[woeful fulcrum]

again, not the game I've been playing. You're literally asking me to not believe my own eyes and my constant experience with the game. I'm pointing out the literal only explanation that makes sense considering my experience with hunt: tradedown and you're telling me completely opposite and unsubstantiated claims of hit invalidation.

the blog doesn't go into specifics about how it deals with dead hunters bullets and higher ping like siege does, it speaks in generalities.

[queen jungle]

Your screen is just what your client shows you, but any shots get validated by the server and if the server finds a shot was fired before your bullet killed the other player, that bullet continues its way. And if you happen to be in the bullets path, you get hit and if your HP is too low or the damage to high, you get killed.

[feral timber]

so you cant MS abuse?

[unborn smelt]

You are free to report potential hitreg issues, ideally with video evidence...
That is what led to the trading changes to beginn with - many reports of hitreg issues.

[woeful fulcrum]

I understand that is what you all think is happening but my experience is so far and away different from that that until you get the dev who has control over the hit reg system on the line and says outright what is actually happening I can't possibly believe what you're saying because it doesn't add up to me at all

[queen jungle]

Any disadvantage due to someone having a high ping affects all players equally. That's also why pong was limited since the devs found that ping above 225 caused issues for everybody on the server.

[woeful fulcrum]

I just couldn't disagree more with that statement. Ok well have a good day guys. It would be really cool if we could have someone from the dev community actually address these issues specifically. about what happens to bullets from dead hunters.

[unborn smelt]

people could lagswitch - but that is a bannable offense like cheating

[queen jungle]

We know because they told us...

[dim heron]

@queen jungle did a great job answering your question tbh. It's not like he doesn't talk to the Devs on a near daily basis or anything.

[little carbon]

Because they simply don't get extra frames. Yes they see you 20 frames longer after you went into cover, but they also saw you 20 frames later coming out of cover. It's delay not extra time. If they would have more time to react to any given game event, then their matches would be longer and that is just a contradiction

[woeful fulcrum]

evidence?

[woeful fulcrum]

sarcasm aside, and not much appreciated, I'm not really understanding how his personal experience talking about stuff with the devs has anything to do with the question I asked since I have no clue if anyone on the moderators side knows to ask the questions I'm asking

[queen jungle]

They explained this in detail during the dev live stream when hit reg was fixed

[woeful fulcrum]

my experience was that the explanation was "we were invalidating kills because you were dead, but now we're not"

[dim heron]

In all fairness, we didn't become moderators for lying to the community or spreading flase information.

[feral timber]

I'm not sure I agree with this, I've definitely died to ping abuse in this game, I've seen videos of it too, there is definitely one sided advantages

[woeful fulcrum]

appeal to authority and more sarcasm

[dim heron]

No, no sarcasm. Facts

[dim heron]

it's not a "we're not", they increased the frame of which a bullet would be "active" after death. If you pull the trigger but die, your bullet will still be live as you shot the bullet.

@unborn smelt is legit a big brain and spoke about it earlier as well. Really the answer to everything you're looking for has been discussed and answers were provided by Rango and Finall

[feral timber]

Is this video wrong?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-muIkkZ9E0

[woeful fulcrum]

Ok I'm going to take a step back for a second and just ask a very specific but general question. Have a decent amount of people been complaining about how often people seem to trade deaths in this game?

[feral timber]

I see someone mention it daily

[woeful fulcrum]

exactly

This doesn't happen in other games...

why not?

[unborn smelt]

absolutely

[woeful fulcrum]

because hunt has a different hit validation system than other games with instant TTK

That literally HAS to be the reason, because this doesn't happen in other games with instant TTK

[dim heron]

Is "Hit reg" just being used as a buzz word here?

[woeful fulcrum]

is what I'm saying making sense ?

[dim heron]

because hit reg would have to do with the hit boxes ect, we're discussing ping no?

[woeful fulcrum]

fine jes, hit validation system

sorry

[unborn smelt]

well TTK isn't the most important here - it's hitscan vs projectiles

[dim heron]

oh ok, just wanted to make sure honestly. There could have been misunderstanding on both sides had we not confirmed

[unborn smelt]

Battlefield has pretty common trading too as a result of being projectile based

[feral timber]

I mean it does and doesn't the only difference is that it doesn't invalidate shots fired from an opposing player, other games with a low TTK tend to rely on hitscan: AKA an instantaneous line trace that is sent from one player to the next. Hunt uses a projectile system: AKA a projectile will leave one player's weapon (regardless of whether they're alive or dead as long as they fired the weapon) and head to wherever they shot, this is how the bullet velocity system works .

[woeful fulcrum]

I think TTK is important because that creates a higher chance of trading in general

[unborn smelt]

oh for sure

but if a high TTK game uses hitscan trading drops to nearly 0

[feral timber]

The reason it doesn't happen in other games is because when one player is dead (even if they fired) and their line trace hasn't reached the other player yet, it stops the line trace entirely

[unborn smelt]

because in a hitscan game there isn't any projectile speed which create the trade window mostly

[woeful fulcrum]

for the most part trading occurs within 100 meters, (although it does happen further than that lol) and when you're that close to one another I think the difference is like 1 frame on 60 fps or something

I'm not sure what the math is there actually

[unborn smelt]

It's actually far more

[little carbon]

They were dead on your screen, doesnt mean they were dead anywhere else.
Remember: Your client doesn hold the truth. Every client holds equal truth.
Someone with high ping starts the game later than someone with low ping, and that offset continues throughout the whole match. If you kill someone at time x in your client time, they will die at time x in their client time. Those two times are identical if counted on their respective client as time elapsed since start of match. However they are not going to match in global time.
That means if you kill a high ping player it can still take some time for the information of their client that they killed you before you killed them in their local time to reach your client. However at that point in time the server already confirmed your kill (Because at that point in global time the server doesnt yet know about the high ping players better shot), therefore you see a dead player killing you. Whereas on the high ping players screen exactly the same is happening, where they kill you first and then die to your corpse

[unborn smelt]

A winnie bullet takes 25ms to travel just 10m

that's almost 2 frames - now for trades we can double that time to 50ms

[queen jungle]

Shots were invalidated because the server incorrectly thought you were dead when in fact the bullet hadn't hit you yet. That was fixed, so now any bullets you fire before the killing bullet hits you, remain valid and can hit other players.

[unborn smelt]

that's just over 3 frames - at point blank

if we go to smth like 50m were at 125ms traveltime

[little carbon]

Most part of the issue regarding ping is that people think that a) time is a constant b) that the order of events on their clients is an absolute

[unborn smelt]

so 250ms trading

which is already 15 frames or a quarter second

[woeful fulcrum]

Jesus christ

I'm seeing the problem now

[unborn smelt]

it's just the slow ass projectiles

[feral timber]

People don't realise that nearly every player in a lobby will have a different ping, and this creates wild imbalances in a game like Hunt

[woeful fulcrum]

ok but what about when I see people die by my shotgun, then I die literally half a second later?

[feral timber]

yep.

[unborn smelt]

that is an issue.

And as they also say there's still hitreg issues that are worked on

[little carbon]

See my big wall of text a few posts up

[unborn smelt]

but trading as a whole is not that

[feral timber]

bullet velocity at it's finest.

[unborn smelt]

trading as a whole is very much intended in a projectile based game with such low velocities

[unborn smelt]

Hunters do move unnatureally fast with very low inertia too

because well realistic movement would likely be too tedious to be fun

[feral timber]

they do, AD spam is fair but fuck me does it make gunfights feel less about skill and more about luck

[unborn smelt]

I mean i see mastering velocities as a form of skill

[feral timber]

what's weird is that Hunt is a hybrid of realistic and unrealistic movement, I feel like a Boston Dynamics robot

[unborn smelt]

but yes there is in some situations a good bit of luck involved

[woeful fulcrum]

Ok well with all this in mind I have an adjustment to make about my feedback

Trading sucks and I think we need a better system.... lol

[feral timber]

it can be, but you can't predict when the next A or D is going to be pressed (so long as the person ADing isn't trying to play a rythm game)

[unborn smelt]

yes - so you need to change your strat

[feral timber]

make bullets faster 🥲

[woeful fulcrum]

we could implement an inertia system like tarkovs hehehehe

[unborn smelt]

disengage and ambush, change angle (I'f you're in line with their AD movement it won't make you miss generally), or preaim spots they may peek etc

[unborn smelt]

I wouldn't be opposed to that - but man many would be angy

[woeful fulcrum]

personally I would love a better inertia system

especially for those avto users that seemed to have tripled in recent weeks

fuck it, I might just run the avto today for shits and gig

[unborn smelt]

I mean now that it#s cheaper and more efficient to stack ammo for it it was to be expected

still no fan myself

I think the single shot pistol should have been special ammo for that reason

[feral timber]

Instead of adding inertia (because I do like the movement outside of animation locking) I'd be down to double the velocity in each gun honestly

to compensate

(maybe doubling is a bit too much haha)

[unborn smelt]

they reduced the velocities to realistic levels on purpose

[feral timber]

of course, it's just kinda one of those things, extremely realistic guns with extremely unrealistic movement 🥲

[unborn smelt]

yeah

I think on guns that's still bearable

[feral timber]

I guess the inertia would make more sense, instead of looking down a sight and seeing someone move like a Tron Lightcycle 🥲

[unborn smelt]

but as soon as we get to Bow, X-bow and tomahawk it's really noticable

[feral timber]

which is why they'll never be anything more than a meme weapon, except for explosive bolts, that shit can get in the bin, and as far removed from the setting as any other weapon, for all the talk of the Avto and Dolch being very "anti-hunt", we sure as shit make weird allowances for the Bomb Lance and certain bolts and arrows and ESPECIALLY some stupid bombs 🥲

[unborn smelt]

Bomblance is not anti hunt

[feral timber]

You don't think?

[unborn smelt]

nah

[feral timber]

but the Avto/Dolch is?

[unborn smelt]

Hunt is an almost cosmic hooror weird west

whacky shit fits well

people don't think avto and Dolch fit because they are so diffrent than the until then mostly revolvers and single shots / bolt actions

[feral timber]

I agree, I don't mind the bomb lance (I hate explosive crossbow) but I see a lot of moaning about Avto and Dolch, particularly how they "don't fit the game"

[feral timber]

but bomb lance and crossbow (special ammo) is even more different?

[unborn smelt]

The bomblance is remarkable close to an IRL patent

[feral timber]

and the Dolch is an IRL weapon right?

[craggy pike]

Yes the Mauser c96

[feral timber]

exactly!

[unborn smelt]

first there are many Bomblance IRL pattents - where Bomblance usually describes the small explosive projectile

but there is a harpoonlance or gunlance patent IRL

I'm seeing if i can find it rn

[feral timber]

No no, I believe you

but we can't be out here complaining about the Dolch - a real weapon, and then be like "bomb lance is fine" a real... but unfinished weapon

[feral timber]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire_lance this it?

[unborn smelt]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D6l404lWsAAzVHD.jpg

this is the best img i could find

[feral timber]

yeah so the bomb lance was a concept weapon, and the dolch was a mass produced weapon (granted under a different name)

[feral timber]

so like I said, we can't in one breath allow wacky things then be like "dolch bad"

[unborn smelt]

or that one

[unborn smelt]

yes we can because the reasons are vastly diffrent

one is whacky fantasy stuff - the other is considered too strong and advanced for the rest of the arsenal

[balmy sparrow]

[unborn smelt]

The Bomblance gets nowhere near too strong

[little carbon]

Eh, i think its fine and i dont fine avtos too troublesome to play against. People are probably playing it a lot currently just because it is new.

[unborn smelt]

Bomblances - not neccessarily the ones i've shown, but IRL bomblances are also produced in great numbers as whaling implements

[craggy pike]

I think the root of the complaints behind the guns that people don't like are just that you are at a disadvantage if you don't carry the same thing as your opponent

[unborn smelt]

Well i personally disliked the avtomat since day one - and the dolch until they nerfed it to the ground

[balmy sparrow]

Tbf in my opinion dolch is in the same diapason, maybe even worse, than bomblance if we ignore stats
Dolch is considered op because old men used it when it was really op, trained with it for vast numbers of time and now can use it proffessionally even with it being underwhelming

[craggy pike]

you can't hope of matching the RoF of a dolch/avto without having one yourself

[unborn smelt]

Just to be clear - i'm not saying they are really OP

[craggy pike]

you can't beat Long ammo from a distance without a Long gun

[unborn smelt]

I just don't like what they decided they want the avto to be

[feral timber]

Ehh fuck it, just get the Cei-Rigotti in the game!

I'm on tender hooks for them to finally add the Maxim Gun too, as a world spawn 🥲

[craggy pike]

i feel a little sour when i want to use classic guns and i stand no chance against certain loadouts

[feral timber]

This is how I win/lose 90% of my exchanges, thankfully it's kind of impossible to make a loadout that is good at every distance, or that you'll use flawlessly at every distance

[unborn smelt]

Fanning Lemat + long rifle has entered chat

[craggy pike]

slug lemat

[unborn smelt]

nah but for real, Long ammo + fanning pistol or semi auto pistol is almost exactly that

[feral timber]

you'd still lose to a 200m sniper and a fanning lemat won't beat a 15m romero

[unborn smelt]

well you can yourself carry a sniper that's effective at 200m, and fanning can very much beat a romero before it reaches 15m, or can match a romero when corner baiting

[karmic ivy]

@unborn smelt Thank you for the detailed explaination of the hit validation system and trades. I have heard it before, but that was the best QnA yet on the subject. Very informative.

[queen jungle]

@orchid wadi Such notifications are not given due to possible legal issues regarding EU privacy laws.

[orchid wadi]

thanks for the feedback i was unaware

[queen jungle]

Someone pinged me 13 times in this channel wth happened

[queen jungle]

You can check the Inbox at the top right of your Discord window

[queen jungle]

I only see 3 from jakey so someone ghost pinged me a bunch

hmm

[unborn smelt]

@untold prism I don't quite get what you're on about with that one...

Hunt isn't based on single shots - it has them but they just serve as the slowest group of weapons (like boltactions in other moderns shooters for example) where bolt and leveractions serve as the faster shooting ones, and faster shooting pistols are designed as sidearms for higher powered slower rifles...

In what way do the Dolch, Bornheim and Officer contradict previous weapon nerfs ?

The Bow doesn't outclass the X-bow either, the X-bow is more powerful dmg wise, has better range and has no movement penalty, making it better for agressive plays, while the bows movement penalty and drawtime make it suck for aggressive plays and pursuing people...

The Slate is fast but still very far off the Crown (Specter is 40 Rpm, Slate is ~60Rpm, and the Crown is a whopping 100Rpm after being nerfed from 140 Rpm with the introduction of slugs)

New army is not just a pre nerf officer - it's got the dmg output of a heccin Dolch ... but it also got really really shit velocity which many people hate.

Now for the shotgun suggestion... Why tho ?
Why would i bring a shotgun that needs 2 shots and severely limits range and accuracy when i can also bring a rifle that doesn't limit range or accuracy that much ?
I get being annoyed by trades, but making shotguns suck at their intended job is not the solution imo...

making them high spread but with a high HS multiplier is the exact opposite of rewarding solid aim over hipfire spray (single pellets dealing massive HS dmg literally means extra RNG kills that need no aiming skill)...
Right now shotguns all have a very tight spread and the hitzone multipliers are designed to punish limbshots and reward good center mass hits (hence the lower HS and leg multipliers but increased lower torso multiplier).

If shotguns only work in whats essentially melee range, they'd just die out and be replaced by melee (Bayonet, riposte, etc) or by fanning sidearms

[queen jungle]

Also to note for a time fanning guns WERE better than shotguns and everyone absolutely hated it

[unborn smelt]

well i know quite a few that though it's neccessary that fanning beats shotguns

but i personally couldn't agree - shotguns should reign supreme in their range

[queen jungle]

Fanning can still slightly outedge shotguns at the edges of their effective range but it’s not a guarantee. At that range both require a not-insignificant helping of luck

[unborn smelt]

yeah and that's good

[queen jungle]

Agreed

[unborn smelt]

why bring a shotgun, if rifle + fanning bests shotguns in shotty range and competes with rifles on longer ranges

[queen jungle]

Exactly

[craggy pike]

now you hardly need fanning if you take scott swift with fmj

[unborn smelt]

I mean you shouldn't need fanning IMO - i don't like the "must pick" traits (doctor for example, or pre nerf fanning which according to the devs was one of the if not the most picked trait)

[queen jungle]

You mean the spitfire?

Swift is the go to fanning scottfield

[unborn smelt]

And rn while it's not reliable - it's still a great tool to whip out as a surprise, or as a deterrent

[craggy pike]

yea spitfire mb

[queen jungle]

Swift is amazing for fanning tho

[frosty garnet]

@vast hare, your post below has been deleted, as it doesn't follow the required format.
You can find all guidelines pinned in the ideas channel.

Please feel free to re-post your idea using the correct format:
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[elder sequoia]

"fanning bests shotguns"

[unborn smelt]

I mean that's unlucky - first shot got aimpunched and then the recoil took the rest off the targtet

[queen jungle]

He was speaking in hypotheticals

[elder sequoia]

and while we're on shotguns there's one thing more op - arm and shoulder shots idc what u say about limb shots everyone is walking around with shields on both sides of them

and as you can tell from how i dunked on the guy in this clip i am an experienced hunter and my opinion is right

[unborn smelt]

This is where you aimed before the shot...

i don't see how this has anything to do with supposedly missing limb pen

[elder sequoia]

i'm not shooting a slug that spread shredded his arms

[unborn smelt]

yes but it only hit arms...

so it's only fair to only hit arm dmg

want it to deal more - hit the actual body - not the arms

[elder sequoia]

i know we both agree it's an arm shot where we disagree is the hunters in this game aren't incapacitated by having their limbs blown up

[unborn smelt]

because at this short of a range with the lowest spread shotgun in Hunt - you have an incredibly small spread

[elder sequoia]

if you want magical iron arms make it a perk i don't want it all the time

[unborn smelt]

yeah we don't agree - it's a game and should be balanced as such

IMO

[ripe basalt]

Man I wish I could onetap people to the limbs with the sparks

[elder sequoia]

it's because of arms hunters eat four bullets and that's too much for hunt gameplay

and when you add distance to the equation it's not fun

[ripe basalt]

His head was available

Nothing blocking that

[elder sequoia]

you can't deflect with aim arguments when i'm arguing hunters have iron arms and it's making the game arcady when it should be hardcore

[ripe basalt]

It's not deflecting anything. Being able to pixel peak oneshot someones arm is just poor balance.

[elder sequoia]

and if you use aim arguments you're agreeing with me they have iron arms but you like it

[ripe basalt]

Different hitzones, different damages

[untold prism]

(Each [1] number represents a paragraph in the parent thread)

[1] Take 'based on' loosely. I'm referring to a broad selection of weapons being slower paced in rate of fire. I would argue to increased number of rapid fire/one shot weapons being added to the game contribute to scope creep of the original idea/base game.

[2] They nerfed the Dolch, Bornheim and Officer were previously nerfed by decreasing their damage, increasing their ADS sway, randomizing their recoil pattern and increasing the reload time. Shortly after the nerf, they introduce the scottfield with its rapid fire variant and the new army that is a double action revolver.

[3] The X-bow outclasses the bow in time to fire, unless the bow is drawn. Its slower, but has a better damage distance. I can rapidly take down multiple hunters with a bow better than I can with a crossbow in a shorter amount of time. Like the x-bow, its another one shot weapon that has little arrow drop and few downsides, plus its a two slot.

[4] We're arguing semantics. The effective rate of fire of the Crown is lower than its actual rate of fire, with 'effective' meaning ability to land consistent hits with 'actual' meaning the stated/factual rate of fire listed on its stats. Yes, the Crown fires faster, but the recoil throws it all over the place. Someone can follow up with a shot nearly as fast with the Slate as they can the Crown. Those terms are loose, obviously.

[5] Velocity doesn't mean much sub 20 meters. Like it is my opinion, the New Army not being an Officer is just as much your opinion. It is semi-automatic with a low, tight recoil pattern and a high rate of fire.

[6] Most of the weapon weapon mechanics in this game seem to base themselves around a 'two-shot to kill' mechanic. Besides weapons like the x-bow/bow that clearly require a broader one hit mechanic to be effective, the shotguns should require this.

[untold prism]

What I'm saying is, with current trade mechanics in place, the shotgun, especially with slug and rapid fire variants like the slate, dominate compound and building fights to an absurd degree. They are too powerful for the area they play in and this is doubly so when you introduce things like slugs. With slugs, they take that shotgun and turn it into a solid two tap weapon out to 25 meters, all while having higher penetration than buck at distances shorter than that. By reducing the one shot potential of buck to something like 5 meters, but increasing the damage drop off to something like 20-30 meters, suddenly that shotgun becomes a compound fighter without straight up dominating it. You can look out the window of the boss room like Sweetbell Flour and hit a player in the opposite building while doing effective damage, where as at this point in time, unless you have slugs, you're not doing more than 25 damage max.

In terms of increasing spread for mid barrel guns like the caldwell, it would leave a place for the romaro's tight spread, especially since the other guns can get a faster follow up shot. Shotguns are already RNG by nature and if you land a multi-pellet headshot at distance right now, it will do better than if you hit limbs or a chest. I'm not sure where you're going with that. The idea of increasing crit damage to the head with pellets is to incentivize ADSing with a shotgun and aiming for the upper torso, while also maintaining its compound fighting advantage. If you try and shoot at anyone beyond 15 meters now with shotguns, you are essentially wasting ammo. If the life of the round is extended to 20-30 meters, it still falls in line that two tap mechanic the game hoists on every other firearm -besides the nitro.

[untold prism]

[7]Absolutely not. 5 meters well out of arms reach unless both hunters are just around the corner smelling each others breath, in which case, melee is just as effective as it would preimplantation of this method or post. Also, I don't have a problem with fanning. I only hate the hit, freeze frame, then death of it.

Good god, its wanting me to get nitro for discord. Oh well, here it is @unborn smelt

[queen jungle]

This guy wrote an essay to tell us he’s bad at thr game.

[unborn smelt]

1 - sure, but the game started with many higher RoF options to begin with so i wouldn't say theres a creep towards it, we also got more single shots, and slower shooting rifles

2- yes they added variety to the existing weapons, and dealt with frequent complaints on others. conpletely normal and not contradictory to me

3- So personal opinion, you don't care that it sucks agressively which is fine, but factually that is a really important mechanical diffrence between the two which makes them play distictly diffrent. you can't move as fast with a bow nor react as fast because it's got a windup draw time and slowed movement during that time.

4- comes down to recoil control - the better you are the faster you can effectively shoot, i can shoot effectively far faster than with a Slate

5- yeah they are similar, never doubted that.

6- nah disagree, shotguns are fine with decent OHK range, as you've yet to bring a good reason why one would bring a shotty over a rifle then, moch less a shotty ofer a rifle + fanning combo

Yes shotguns should very much dominate indoor fights as rifles dominate anything from longer compound sightlines to full on sniping, i agree tho on not liking slugs.

If shooties don't dominate up close they are ded

Shotguns are already RNG by nature and if you land a multi-pellet headshot at distance right now, it will do better than if you hit limbs or a chest.
Well no - big missconception

[warm beacon]

whats up with the servers?

[queen jungle]

Wrong channel but probably still overloaded and struggling to keep up

[unborn smelt]

Shotguns have a measly 1.5 times dmg multiplier for headshots - on purpose. That's only 0.2 better than bodyshots. So going for headshots looses you dmg because missing pellets over the shoulder offsets higher dmg for pellets hitting head

But that's very much on purpose

I supposed you could have 0 pellets miss and 1-2 hit head for slightly increased dmg - but that's very unlikely to happen

I get what your idea was with the increased HS multiplier, but because of the spread it wont work - especially not when increasing spread on many shotties

Shotties right now do what you want them to do - reward aiming center mass carefully. Shotties in hunt are very polarizing - those who don't carefully center their hits call them unreliable letdowns that don't work, where as people that get consistently clapped by wellplaced hits think they are far too good.

[queen jungle]

Shotguns can occasionally let you down even with good aim but generally you’re right

There is still always SOME RNG element

[unborn smelt]

sure there's rng involved

but we have people claiming 3 feet shots to upper torso failed to kill

which is mostly them missing said upper torso by a long shot

[queen jungle]

Definitely

[untold prism]

I think that idea shotguns as they are derive from an overreliance on what is and has been throughout most fps shooter games in the past few decades; a close quarters weapon meant to dominate in a very narrow confine. In Hunt, this has been skewed with the slugs that suddenly extend its range to distances I'm already arguing for. The IRL point of a shotgun is to be able to get hits on a moving target, for example, if you narrowly underlead a shot in game with a rifle, that same shot would score you some hits with a shotgun. I don't think there is anything wrong in experimenting past the accepted consensus of what a shotgun can do in games. Why not try this on a test server? If it fails, then we have real world proof that its a bad idea. If it succeeds, suddenly Hunt redefines the entire genre of shotguns in FPS gaming. I'm not arguing that this IS the solution, but A solution. Think of it what you will, but no idea is perfect on first conception.

[unborn smelt]

well we can have shotguns doing what you want them to - by putting in flechette

Now i'd want more flechette on other shotties, tho

[untold prism]

I'd love to have it in the romaro. Talk about versatility.

[queen jungle]

That would be pretty awful

But I think it sounds kinda fun

[untold prism]

On a side note, I love fletchettes, just hate the loss in penetration.

They actually behave how I'd like them

[unborn smelt]

Tbh i think flechette romero would be amazing

[untold prism]

At least we have agreement there. Think whatever you want on my idea, I'm just offering them.

[unborn smelt]

hey all good - i just wanted to have a good convo about it

have a great day/night anyway

[untold prism]

You too

[fluid locust]

crown and king flechette or slate flechette would be nut

[queen jungle]

Singular

[dense sapphire]

@late wind (Daughter of Decay)
How is she more camouflaged than Cain? Cain literally looks like dirt because he's covered with it while DoD has a white mask and hair.

[untold prism]

The light mask and hair create a flat appearance that blends in with similarly colored buildings and objects around her. Especially when the light is shining on her, she can be fairly difficult to see.

Or highly saturated buildings/objects, I should say.

[jovial dawn]

MMR should not be a thing in quickplay. It has it's own K/D, it doesn't use skill-based matchmaking, and it's largely luck based, so why does it affect your MMR? It would be nice to have it be a separate mode entirely where you could just run in and try new strats out risk-free.

[unborn dagger]

Dunno sounds like made up excuses to me

[frosty garnet]

@cursive jewel, your post below has been deleted, as it doesn't follow the required format.
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Changes sparks pistol to medium slot. Its damage, range and general usability is even better than most of the already compact variant guns that cost two slots. Poison ammo only exemplifies this```

[karmic ivy]

@feral timber I think the inertia they have is good. I know what you are talking about because I have played a few games, notibly planet side 2 and survarium, that had a such fast movement I really didn't like the result. But here in Hunt, its just right for me. I would be interested in testing slower speeds/changes of direction. But I am for now, partial to the way we have it. I wouldn't want it to feel too slow, I am sure of that. I can imagine it, and I think at some point it would negatively effect the act of peeking out from cover.

[queen jungle]

The biggest appeal of Hunt’s movement is that it strikes a balance between aggressive and methodical movement.

I like it just where it is even if some objects and ledges that should be vaultable aren’t

[late wind]

DoD has a similar color scheme with a ghillie top and a mask with foliage that helps break up her outline. You can't say that Cain is dirt colored when he's basically the same shade of white as her mask.

So either they're both too hard to spot. Or they're both fine. And since people want to complain that Cain is too hard to spot, the Hunter with a similar color scheme and better outline disrupting features, she's clearly at least as bad, if not worse.

[karmic ivy]

They are both fine, even a tier one white shirt can be hidden in the right kind of cover. It is the nature of Hunt.

[late wind]

To be clear: I never thought Cain was a problem. All I'm asking for is consistency. If Cain was allegedly too hard to spot, than objectively harder to spot hunters should be reeled in as well.

The issue with Cain in reality is that he's one ugly SoB. And that triggers people for some reason.

[dense sapphire]

Brown and white are not the same color

[fluid locust]

DoD is so ez to see lol

[queen jungle]

DoD is weird, sometimes she's really easy to see other times it's like she's invisible

I think the "ghillie" look has a lot to do with that

Game's colors are kind of washed out on my system but that could just be my monitor frankly

[neon bridge]

Upgrade servers. Server desync, server lag, crouching behind cover to only die because on their screen you were still standing, or shooting someone 2ft away see blood splat watch their animation of being headshot, but they somehow still shot and hit you as after they are dead.

[little carbon]

@feral timber adding movement inertia is a bad idea. It would make peeking and pushing a lot more risky by nerfing your biggest defensive option. Which in turn will lead to people pushing and peeking less than they are now because waiting for the other team to expose themselves will be the better option

[little carbon]

What you are describing has nothing to do with whether the servers are shitty or not, it's simply a result caused by networking not being Instant.

[little carbon]

I explained the theory behind it (very broadly) to someone else here.
The important bit to note is that in both players perspective they get killed by a corpse.

[crystal plume]

@primal maple You can report bugs in #bug-reports-pc

[frosty garnet]

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[balmy sparrow]

What a chad

What a suggestion

[mortal lava]

Are there any plans for enabling Linux compatibility with EAC?

[queen jungle]

They have said in the past to be considering it as an option, but that there hadn't been any decision made yet.

[crystal plume]

!report @strong tapir

[marsh garden]

If you would like to report a player, you can do so on the Team Details tab on your Match Summary screen. It is also accessible in the Last Match tab at any time. If you have additional proof you would like to provide, you can find out how to reach out to official support here: #customer-support

[balmy sparrow]

Fair point, thanks for fixing my response

[queen jungle]

@sick anvil What makes you think the chance was increased?

[frosty garnet]

@subtle star, your post below has been deleted, as it doesn't follow the required format.
You can find all guidelines pinned in the ideas channel.

Please feel free to re-post your idea using the correct format:
Matched regex in message in #game-ideas (#suggestions-ideas, 524577494863708180):

I was thinking about this, and maybe this wasn't by design... Does having a larger reticle give the impression of a certain amount of damage. Maybe big = more damage. Like could they have had this intention or something similar in mind when designing it this way?```

[sick anvil]

#latest-update-discussion message this

[main portal]

@ocean rapids you can jump over traps but you cant jump over bear traps and twigs from same ground level height

[ocean rapids]

well shouldn't that be a thing?

I mean I know it would weaken the items but still. a human is able to make a 20cm jump...

[main portal]

true but in a practical sense being able to jump traps is skill kinda thing but just jumping bear traps would just render them useless especially with vigilance

I would recommend decoys since you can throw them on traps without having to shoot or punch them

[ocean rapids]

I mean maybe I am just tier 3 dumbster, but people sometimes do miss the trap and step into it

[main portal]

twigs are a soundtrap and thats a developer stand point on that. I could care less since I try to do the same lol

I would recommend this @ocean rapids go into training with Alarm trips and practice jumping over your own. You will legit get it down to the point where if you can confirm a trap on a door you can just jump it easily

Hard to do practically all the time but its gotten me some disgusting kills especially if you have light foot since you dont make noise if you jump

[queen jungle]

@dull prawn I feel like having a double action medium ammo revolver would outclass the scottfield spitfire especially for only $125

Also .45 long colt would be more appropriate than .44, .44 is midway between med and long

[queen jungle]

That’s not a criticism it’s just a fun fact

[dull prawn]

The price, recoil, and other such stats would all be subject to change based on Crytek's rulings. Personally I feel the lack of fanning capability and the earlier unlock of the Scottfield (it literally being a level 1 gun) would bring some balance there. Also, I pictured the Haymaker being at the very end of the unlock tree for the New Army, basically serving as it's version of the Uppercut for the Conversion pistol. It'd take a lot more work to unlock it vs the Spitfire, which you can get pretty quickly.

As for the cartridge - I picked .44 because almost all the "Medium" ammo guns in the game right now historically used a .44 or equivelent diameter round, if I'm not mistaken - even the Peacemaker (Pax) was chambered in 44-40 and .44 Special. I've just taken that to mean that "Medium" in Hunt's Lore equals roughly .44 caliber.

[queen jungle]

I don’t particularly think the Haymaker would be a balanced gun even with the addition of extra recoil. Look at how the Nagant Officer has dominated the Compact pistol category for everything but fanning which generally goes to the Conversion. Fanning is also much less reliable than DA guns are, and as such not needing it is arguably a boon.

The Scottfield being an earlier unlock is a boon but realistically it’s the Spitfire that the gun is competing with.

I do like the other suggestions you made except poison anmo

[dull prawn]

fair enough I suppose, my idea for the Haymaker generally pictured a gun that was weaker in overall damage output/velocity/effective range than both the Scottfield and the Pax, but I didn't feel the need to include that in the description as it was mainly compared there to the basic New Army, which is notably weak as far as DA/Semi-auto guns go, barely topping out on the hilariously overpriced Bornhiem

[queen jungle]

#feedback message

@hardy pulsar Hunt dollars are easier than they’ve ever been to make and maintain a steady supply of money with free hunters. The game has ALWAYS been about managing your money and encourage variety in your loadouts. If you’re running the exact same few expensive loadouts every game and going broke that’s on you

[dull prawn]

again, if it got added, balance would naturally be up to Crytek, I'm sure they'd be able to find a decent middle-ground for a medium ammo DA revolver

[queen jungle]

Well you’d think but the bornheim and Uppercut exist

[dull prawn]

bornhiem is fine stat wise, it's just overpriced, and the Uppercut is being constantly tweaked

[queen jungle]

Opposite ends of their respective spectrum

[queen jungle]

Bornheim is generally considered pretty bad. I don’t think much would change if it were cheaper

It’s… alright I guess. Very underwhelming

Borny extended is kinda fun

[dull prawn]

I feel like if it was comparable to other pistols in its weight class price-wise it'd get a lot more use, the rate of fire and the quick reload from empty are nice bonuses, and the extended is a pretty great little gun

ultimately, you can tell what guns are well-balanced when whether you use them or not comes down purely to preference, like the Mosin vs the Lebel - everybody's got their preference, but both are very solid long ammo bolt actions

[queen jungle]

I think my problem with the bornheim is that it gets outedged in a few too many avenues by the officer. Bornheim pretty much requires 3 shots which really hurts in direct confrontation

[dull prawn]

is that a problem with the bornhiem, though? or is it a problem with the officer?

[queen jungle]

People say ‘just click heads’ but like, those people usually don’t get 100% headshots either

[queen jungle]

A little bit of column A a little bit of column B

[dull prawn]

true, anywho, whether or not my silly little suggestion gets added or not is entirely on crytek

mostly I just want a new army swift

[hardy pulsar]

Way to read the pinned message about not responding to others here. If I wanted to play free hunters, I wouldn't have paid for the collectors edition. I shouldn't have to scrimp with free hunters. 450 in tools/consumables, and relatively inexpensive other loadouts (I rarely buy the favs many run like Mosin etc). The game shouldn't be about managing money. It's stupid, and you know it.

[queen jungle]

Look at the channel name again

We’re in feedback-discussion

[queen jungle]

To reiterate that it says “You can have a chat in #feedback-discussion”

[queen jungle]

So you’re saying that because you paid extra money you shouldn’t have to worry about a core game mechanic? This game SHOULD be about money, it’s not stupid, it’s your fault that you’re going broke because you’re stamping your feet and refusing to engage with a core game mechanic

@paper valley Why though

[paper valley]

why not?

[queen jungle]

Time, money the game was objectively worse, among other things

Hunt can’t even fill lobbies in dedicated beta branches for free. It would not survive

[paper valley]

they need to market the game better

[queen jungle]

Okay oh wise one, tell me how you would convince people to buy a years out of date product on top of the live one let alone continue to keep playing that out of date product

Fuckin yikes dude

All I did was disagree with you

Well it seems like you clearly know a lot about marketing and must have some ideas. I’m interested in hearing how you would market that dlc

[queen jungle]

Bruh

Genuinely what is your problem

For someone with a twitch channel you don’t really seem to know how to behave publicly

[jaunty falcon]

Let's keep this channel for feedback discussion of the game only please. Thanks

[queen jungle]

Politicians would hate Hunt, youtubers have already gotten some free copies, the game already runs ads and has active social media, nobody who plays video games reads print paper

In fact we recently hit a new play peak

It doesn’t seem like you have any new or innovative ways to market Hunt or a DLC that a handful of people would actually want and much less would pay for

[queen jungle]

How are blood bonds tied to the Hunt Dollar system?

[burnt mulch]

so… wdym blood bonds are tied to the hunt dollar system?

like I understand being upset about not being able to apply skins to weapons you currently have but

how would you “spend blood bonds or mindlessly grind”? And what does qp have to do with any of this?

its a spaghetti of like 5 different points that have nothing to do with each other.

[high belfry]

Guys, please make sure that you are being respectful towards the one you're discussing something with. Some posts have been removed

[elder sequoia]

hunt showdown marketing isn't bad what's holding the game back is game stuff

and the main culprit is shotguns indoors is making the majority of the player base mad about the game

imo they nerfed exit camping too hard it's not even a viable option for a lot of people right now so these people are forced indoors

[tawny meadow]

I don't think shotguns indoors are angering that many people. There's plenty of tools to fight shotgun campers.

[elder sequoia]

if you think that you're not playing the game enough if you play trios with people in this discord 50% of games has someone extremeley mad about being shotgunned

and then they spend 5 minutes ranting about how mad they are about the shotgunner's play style

that person isn't going to play hunt for very long if he doesn't figure it out

[tawny meadow]

Help them figure it out then. It's just an acquired skill.

[elder sequoia]

telling me to help them isn't the topic the topic is what's holding the game back for players

and the solution anyways is to have a long drawn out sniper battle cus u can't go in and it's not that fun honeslty

[tawny meadow]

I still don't think players are getting hold back. Hunt is a niche game and always will be.

[elder sequoia]

so the answer it that hunt is niche and therefore can't be improved to make it more fun?

then why are u in a feedback channel if it's niche and perfect

[tawny meadow]

Don't twist my words 🙂

[elder sequoia]

u said niche not me

as a counter

[tawny meadow]

Yes, but i didn't say i couldn't be improved and i didn't say it's perfect

[elder sequoia]

so what are you saying shotguns are fine cus the game is niche?

[tawny meadow]

No, i'm saying that shotguns are fine AND the game is niche

[elder sequoia]

so the drawn out sniper battles that aren't that fun and the players getting angry when they do play aggro is fine?

and to be clear thes are sniper battles where you're just staring at building windows

for minutes on end

[tawny meadow]

That's one playstyle. I don't see the problem.

People get angry all the time when they die, not when they have sniper battles. I don't think they'll be angry if they were the one getting out alive

[elder sequoia]

so me staring at a window for 5 miinutes is fun no problem?

[tawny meadow]

...don't stare at the window then

Rotate, push, use tools, use consumables, extract if you have to

[elder sequoia]

you're pretending a shotgun camper has every unfair advantage

in a building

does not rather

[queen jungle]

Lair camping in general is too easy in a lot of lairs because they lack suitable options to push and are too easy to cover all the entrances. It’s not a shotgun problem

[elder sequoia]

i don't agree - it's a shotgun problem cus its a one shot one kill behind a corner

if you camp a corner with a rifle or pistol it's 2 shots

becasuse if you survive the blast you can recuperate

[queen jungle]

Then just back away from the corner or toss something around it from a distance

[tawny meadow]

Luckily we get compounds rework to tackle issue like that

[elder sequoia]

proton it's one shot

how you gonna back away if you're dead

[queen jungle]

Exactly. Even if it’s slow

[tawny meadow]

Don't get shot

[queen jungle]

Back away before you get shot then

If they don’t push you then back up

[elder sequoia]

what

everytime you clear a corner there's a risk

if it's a shotgun you lose

those words you're saying don't change that

[fluid locust]

sounds like a skill issue

[elder sequoia]

wow 3 on 1

why come to feedback if you're just gonna say it's perfect

the shotguns indoors is not fun

[tawny meadow]

No one is saying that

So what should be the use for shotgun?

[queen jungle]

The game isn’t perfect. I literally criticized the lair design

[elder sequoia]

shotguns indoors needs more counters is the solution

[queen jungle]

Like 3 messages ago

[tawny meadow]

You got tons of counters

[elder sequoia]

the counters are super weak

i've shotgun camped before and survived every consumable thrown at me

you're pretending like theere's these great counters that are perfect

[tawny meadow]

Maybe you are not using those counter in the right way

[queen jungle]

Consumables, backing away from an angle, looking for a different angle

Consumables aren’t always for a kill shot. Getting them to BTFO so you can move in is valuable

[tawny meadow]

There are a few blind spot, but most of the corners can be tackled from different angles

[elder sequoia]

in trios three entrances are covered

all of you are pretending i'm not talking about trios

no one is teleporting to a different angle

it's a very risky and unpleasant process for the attacker

and they need more tools for the game to be fun

[tawny meadow]

So, let's think about that scenario:
One trio outside with long ammo, one trio inside with shotguns, ok?

The trio outside try to breach in with explosive and fails

They try to snipe the windows but the trio inside is not peeking (and that's kinda rare too)

What can they do?

Back away

You can still see the enemy in the map if they have the bounty

Just get outside of the darksight range and ambush the moment they exit the compound

They still don't exit and you don't feel like rushing in? Extract

There are a lot of options.

[elder sequoia]

if the game remains that way it will need improve its player base

it's that simple

players want to raid the comound

[tawny meadow]

False

Players want to win

[elder sequoia]

then once again you're not playing enough with others

almost every trio raids

raiding is fun

it feels like a game

[tawny meadow]

https://tenor.com/view/the-big-lebowski-thats-like-your-opinion-man-gif-15076479

[elder sequoia]

no one is gonna agree with me that raiding is the fun part?

the only type of player the game is retaining is the one who doesn't raid and keeps an immense distance

that's why the player base is at the count it is at

in other words, raiding needs a buff

and it is so obvious i can't even believe no one is agreeing

[tawny meadow]

Well, if you have some idea on how, post those in the #game-ideas channel

[elder sequoia]

psh

the answers are obvious so me putting an idea there is useless

the players don't want it clearly

at least that browse this channel

an obvious solution is the banishment process needs to produce a smoke that gradually increases in radius and forces the campers out

and raiding tools need to be looked at like fires that spread and increased toxic gasses and such

but the new players who try the game out are desperate for those things

also exit camping needs a buff and the easiest way to do that is decreases dark sight to 3

the answers are obvious it's just nobody is talking about how unfun the indoors fights are

[tawny meadow]

Maybe because people actually find those fun

[elder sequoia]

nope that's survivorship bias

the people you hear from are the ones that stayed because they like that unfun part

you don't hear the ones that disagree because they've left the game

actually play with the discord players they hate the shotguns

[tawny meadow]

I couldn't be that some people like different things from you?

[elder sequoia]

i literally got off of a team like 20min ago where the guy quit cus he was getting shotgunned all day and this time he got shot outside cus he couldn't raid prison cus as you know if u actually played the game prison is shotgun territory

it's the same story for the 50th or 100th time

you won't hear from him cus he's gone

regular people with only so much time don't go on feedback channel after they just quit

[tawny meadow]

Or maybe they just vent a bit, quit, and get back after some days

Hunt can be stressful. I too take pauses from it from time to time.

[elder sequoia]

you can't rely on that for a business

if the point of a game is to be fun and addicting that mean's it lacks what a game is supposed to be

[tawny meadow]

Well, if you look at the steam charts i guess it's going pretty good

[elder sequoia]

it's reached another plateau though i think

[tawny meadow]

With the last event the average playerbase saw a good growth

[elder sequoia]

that is actually true

doesn't mean my opions are wrong though i may just be speaking too early

and this weakness in the game is gonna prevent it from going further than 16k avg players

then we'll see if i was right

[tawny meadow]

Only time will tell 🙂

[queen jungle]

Not just that. I’m just happy to be playing a cool cowboy monster hunting game

[tawny meadow]

True that

[queen jungle]

Winning is cool but as long as I don’t get totally mollywhopped I’m having fun

@mint copper I don’t know how to say this without sounding rude but you may have partial colorblindness. Enemies in darksight are a bright thermic orange color. Teammate outlines are a cool blue.

Definitely not the same color

[mint copper]

@queen jungle Not in darksight they aren't. They're orange in darksight.

[spice topaz]

A known issue on Hotfix 1.9.0.2 release notes

[queen jungle]

That’s a visual bug

[mint copper]

@queen jungle The more you know. So I guess I can't say that it was a poor UI decision anymore. That makes me feel a bit better.

[queen jungle]

You really just jumped straight to calling devs idiots huh

[dense sapphire]

Hot take: Dev team is (generally) pretty good

I will still bitch about redskull revive and the reload logic change until my grave

[wet peak]

stuck next to snecraficer... super sad.
I crouched in a spot between a cart and a pyre and got stuck. can't stand up or move.

[queen jungle]

@subtle star Those are Steam names by players, it'd be impossible to force anyone to use Latin characters only.

[subtle star]

Oh makes sense. How about creating a new HUNT username?

[queen jungle]

@midnight wolf It's entirely random what time of day you get and night (as well as fog) already have significantly lower chances of occurring.
Ultimately, night time requires a significant change in play style. Rushing around like most people to on day time maps will easily get you killed. Instead try playing more slowly, avoid making noise and set ambushes for any noisy players you happen to encounter.

[wind stream]

And please refrain from tagging the devs unless they are currently active in chat

[queen jungle]

Ultimately, night time requires a significant change in play style. Rushing around like most people to on day time maps will easily get you killed. Instead try playing more slowly, avoid making noise and set ambushes for any noisy players you happen to encounter entices camping

FTFY

[coral dust]

Just spent 30 minutes loading in and out of 4 night maps in a row. Can't see anything.

[queen jungle]

Well I guess there are always some afraid of the dark 😉

[coral dust]

Ill play a match if everyone is flashed the entire time have no problem but when some ppl can see and i can thats unfair

Can't see

Just loaded in to my 5th night map guess the game is telling me to go to sleep

All extractions are in one corner opposite side of the map

Mine is almost fully up all the way

[midnight wolf]

What is a gamma, lol

[wind stream]

I can understand both sides, Im just hoping for a preference system

[coral dust]

You know what gamma is im playing with you right now bone head

[queen jungle]

@median void The only problem I have with that is that 3 round burst is so that all 3 rounds fire before the recoil impulse hits the shooter

Not for ammo conservation

[frosty garnet]

@maiden ore, your post below has been deleted, as it doesn't follow the required format.
You can find all guidelines pinned in the ideas channel.

Please feel free to re-post your idea using the correct format:
Matched regex in message in #game-ideas (#suggestions-ideas, 524577494863708180):

I would also like this pistol in the game. I don't know anything about the time period or actual functionality but it seems to have a primary trigger to push the hammer forward and a secondary trigger to cycle the cylinder. If anyone could tell me the name of this weapon I would definitely like to add this to the weapons listed from the original suggestion```Attachments:
<https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/524577494863708180/1016257578751250443/Capture-8.png>

[maiden ore]

@arctic night
I would also like this pistol in the game. I don't know anything about the time period or actual functionality but it seems to have a primary trigger to push the hammer forward and a secondary trigger to cycle the cylinder. If anyone could tell me the name of this weapon I would definitely like to add this to the weapons listed from the original suggestion

[balmy sparrow]

@wind stream
Bot hates people in suggestions again
And like
While i personally disapprove of that clearly meme suggestion, it still would be unfair to keep it ignored

Thanks rango

Love you

Ahorn, u slow

[unborn smelt]

Hah - too slo ahorn

[unborn smelt]

Its a Savage 1861 Navy revolver...

[maiden ore]

thanks

just didnt know the year

[little carbon]

@elder sequoia In what world would exit camping need a buff? I'd say that's a worse Playstyle than the other campers.

[fluid locust]

seems pretty cool and would work similar to how the spitfire does p much

[tribal wyvern]

#bug-reports-pc message
I think this was a straight up miss unfortunately.
The guy was backing up & you see the shot landed away from him & not behind his head.

@worldly pagoda

[hardy pulsar]

@jagged wagon - Can I just remove the black market from the client now please? Its pointless to still be sat there. Either re-fresh it or remove it.

But then they'd have no way to push spending blood bonds on you, if the market actually reset regularly, people wouldn't be pressed

[frosty garnet]

@hardy pulsar, your post below has been deleted, as it doesn't follow the required format.
You can find all guidelines pinned in the ideas channel.

Please feel free to re-post your idea using the correct format:
Matched regex in message in #game-ideas (#suggestions-ideas, 524577494863708180):

Build a better cosmetic use system.  Make them skins, not actual physical items purchased separately.  Allow preference based selections by default (ie always use X skin when Y weapon is equipped), but allow players to change between skins before a match if they want.  No more buying of each legendary hunter.  Buy a "legendary" hunter with a base model (tier 3) and 3 perks, and apply any skin to it that you own.  Same for all weapons. Same for any hunter, even non legendary. Be better. You're gatekeeping paid for merchandise behind a secondary paywall with the in game currency system and it's stupid. They should be able to be utilized at all times without paying again just to buy it separately```

[frosty garnet]

@barren galleon, your post below has been deleted, as it doesn't follow the required format.
You can find all guidelines pinned in the ideas channel.

Please feel free to re-post your idea using the correct format:
Matched regex in message in #game-ideas (#suggestions-ideas, 524577494863708180):

New Trait Idea:```

[barren galleon]

My bad, i didnt mean to press send yet.

[wind stream]

You have to start it with "Title: " too

otherwise it will delete it again

@barren galleon

[barren galleon]

ty

[jagged wagon]

Its not reset once since its creation, its pointless, and should be removed.

[ornate hemlock]

Oh wow, people are complaining about shotguns again? Have they thought about learning to play the game? It’s just continuous whining at this point.

[ornate hemlock]

He doesn’t think things through and clearly has a limited understanding of the game. I wouldn’t bother.

[brazen zenith]

When will the crossbow bugs finally be fixed? (reload and shoot)

[dim heron]

This makes no sense to me, if they wanted to push for more sales, wouldn't they refresh it more often giving the feeling of fomo for not purchasing in time???

[worldly pagoda]

He is moving in the direction of the bullets travel path. Watch his motion prior to the shot and after it, he stops moving and turns exactly where the iron sights are seated. IF he stopped moving entirely at the time of the shot and after, you could argue that it missed his head/neck hitbox over his shoulder, but he continues to move in the direction of the shot. I know you regularly object to peoples claims that there is a problem with the hitbox system in this game and defend it on a regular basis, but with the mounting video evidence compiled by different players around the world in the bug channel this topic cannot be ignored any longer in my opinion, and if it is the game will suffer from doing so. SyrasX has a twitch clip from yesterday at 10:09 am in the bug channel that should be sufficient evidence by itself

[dim heron]

you missed

shot behind is head

[little carbon]

@ashen girder making the avto special without also giving it a decently sized reserve will just make it pretty useless. It's fine where it is. It's a very good close range gun with some midrange capabilities, that requires heavy effort on your loadout in both money, traits and the consumables brought.
And even then it's not an oppressive weapon, you can absolutely play around it.

[mystic cargo]

anyone have a contact to EAC ? anything can work, phone, mail, discord, i need help guys, please.

[elder sequoia]

i've been exit camped probably like once in the past 100 hours. that's the world in which it needs a buff. it should be an option but clearly no one even sees it as one

if we're playing a moba and you haven't seen a champion in the past one hundred hours you would conclude that in this world it probably needs a buff or at least needs to be tweaked and looked at

in hunt showdown 2017 a lot of games ended in a big fun bang because there was a threat at least one person is waiting for your team to exit and you were kept on your feet

now everyone throws choke bombs and decoys at each other for fun cus there's no threat and the last 10 minutes of the game becomes walking simulator

[mystic cargo]

anyone have a contact to EAC ? anything can work, phone, mail, discord, i need help guys, please..

[unborn dagger]

Stuff like this makes me glad this game doesn't have bullet magnetism

[dim heron]

Check their official website for a contact.

[worldly pagoda]

you paused it early and at a point fitting to your point, please dont be misrepresenting, you're a mod

[dim heron]

wat

I paused it at the shot

you can even see the muzzle flash

[balmy sparrow]

[worldly pagoda]

thats his head

[dim heron]

you missed

that's all there is to it

[worldly pagoda]

even better, thats his head and neck

[dim heron]

it's behind his head

how hunchback do you think hunters are

[worldly pagoda]

the irons are covering him, there is no ground on the irons its all hunter

[dim heron]

the irons are behind his head

[worldly pagoda]

the brim of his hat can be seen on the left of the irons and its a bowler hat, tiny brim. thats the back of his head

[dim heron]

v

A hat is not a hit box

every hitbox is the same

clothing does not count as a hit box

[worldly pagoda]

i never said i hit his hat im saying use that as a referrence point

also he is moving in that direction, even IF it didnt hit his head he will walk into it. however im still holding that is on his head

[dim heron]

you can hold anything you want, doesn't make it true. You missed, Idk how much more I can blow up the image of you missing to show it but at a certain point it just becomes a jumbled mess of low quality pixels.

[worldly pagoda]

you saying its a miss doesnt mean that is truth either, we both hold our opinions which seem to mean very little in these cases

[dim heron]

very true, except I come with proof of the miss

Anyway, no point in really continuing since we're not discussing feedback or a suggestion at the moment lol, there's also no way I'm going to change your mind, so let's move on and continue to Hunt ^^ Glhf out there

[worldly pagoda]

you dont, you think you do becuase its what you want to be, much like i do, however that doesnt make it anymore factually true. if held a poll and the majority said it was a hit would you still be correct with prrof that it was a miss?

[dim heron]

Yes, because peoples opinions don't trump factual proof 🤷‍♀️

[worldly pagoda]

so you hold no matter what anyone else says youre right and your mind cannot be changed?

[dim heron]

If a Dev shows up and says it wasn't a miss I'll concede, however all proof currently shows you missed.

it's not a hitreg issue

Open a support ticket and share the video, let them know there's a hit reg issue.

[worldly pagoda]

i disagree, and until such a moment does happen i will not concede either, its a hit and if it isnt theyre moving in that direction which would put them in the travel path of that bullet anyway

[dim heron]

They were moving backwards?

[worldly pagoda]

yes backwards into the bullet path, theyre facing right moving down and left from my position

[dim heron]

just re-watched, he wasn't moving backwards

[worldly pagoda]

whats the point of reporting things here if we need to open a support ticket to have these things looked into?

[dim heron]

well the Discord doesn't have an official support, so if you would like to report this as a hitreg issue... bring it to the official support?

can't make it bigger, rip

Anyway, since we're not going anywhere and it's not feedback or a suggestion. Like I said report it and let's move on with our lives ^^

[worldly pagoda]

it is feedback, im letting them know their hitreg system is in decline and we are discussing it. a twitch streamer posted a video yesterday at 10:09 displaying harder evidence than what im showing here and it seems to have been taken down. can you elaborate?

or the video of my sticky bomb literally going through a meathead at point blank range, seeing these can you definitively say there is no possible way that bullet didnt go through his head and was not counted?

[dim heron]

No idea what video that is nor why it was removed if it was even removed by a Mod.

where's your video of a sticky going through a meathead?

[worldly pagoda]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/520548481782382602/1016199366542905376/Hunt_Showdown_2022.09.04_-_20.24.46.09.DVR_Trim.mp4

[dim heron]

nvm I found it, yea that is odd but definitely not the norm. I wish you had looked at it longer so I could see whyo it would of happened but I understand running away lol

though that's definitely not the same as your shot, with this we can definitely see it "hit" the target. Where your shot goes behind the person

[worldly pagoda]

running from the meathead? yeah i thought the giant had a bomb strapped to his chest

[dim heron]

which is why I said I understand running away

[worldly pagoda]

oh sorry i thought you were mocking me so i added further explanation

[dim heron]

no no

I feel like it has something to do with pathing, though honestly I'm not sure why a meathead acted like the assassin

[worldly pagoda]

regardless of the previous topic we cant agree on, there are many compiled videos in the bug discord of things like this happening to both hunters and AI. which is why im stating that the games hitreg is in decline and it isnt being adressed

[dim heron]

That one I'll bring up to someone

[worldly pagoda]

thank you

[dim heron]

The issue with "many compiled videos" is that the majority of them are actually misses

there have been some that were actual issues, and those were brought up to the team. But the majority are misses.

[worldly pagoda]

majority. so you have seen some that are legit yet no one has adressed this issue?

that was written at the same time

[dim heron]

The team is always looking to perfect the game obviously, it's constantly being worked on and tweaked.

Like I said there have been some actual issues, and the team was made aware and looking into it, but the majority, like 9.9/10, are just heat of the moment, missed the shot and can't come to terms >.> lol

We've all been there

[unborn smelt]

Just because shit happens doesn't mean it's as big of an issue as people think

in one of their old blogs crytek mentioned that according to their data from that period in time ~0.7% of shots were propably wrongfully invalidated

which as a percentage is not all that much - but it would generate up to 7 vids of legit shots being invalidated wrongfully per 1000 shots

So while you'll never get completely rid of bugs and small issues - those can seem way out of proportion really damn fast, especially on a discord server this size with a channel dedicated to collecting stuff like that

[slender crane]

why did so many people downvote the shotgun crosshair suggestion

do they really want inaccurate representations?

[unborn smelt]

https://www.huntshowdown.com/news/the-state-of-hit-registration-in-hunt that's the source on what i just said

[slender crane]

lmao and then someone else makes the exact same post and they upvote it

what a joke

[unborn smelt]

However this is from 2019 - and they have imrooved hitreg noticably since (the trading changes for example lead to a lot less wrong invalidations)

[karmic ivy]

Without an example, I would guess it was the words of the idea creator that changed their opinion. Do you have the two examples handy?

[unborn smelt]

Which one specifically ?

often times just one small detail can make people dislike an entire suggestion

[slender crane]

svelle and then tysonzero

[unborn smelt]

well the second one has an actual video to show what they mean for example

[karmic ivy]

maybe because one had an example.

[crystal plume]

Because people are blowing the "finding" out of proportions and don't know how it works, the crosshair size is more accurate relative to the target's distance after X amount of distance, it's inaccurate closer up because the spread starts off as 1 point, if you make the crosshair smaller then it'll be inaccurate at distance

And this is literally how it works in 90% of other fps games with shotguns

It's nothing new or unique

[worldly pagoda]

while I do appreciate the old stats showing how often these things happened 5 years ago, and the acknowledgement of the situation, it does little to tell me anything other than its not big enough an issue to dedicate too much time to, which is a huge bummer, i still thank you for your time

[unborn smelt]

I mean they very much went on to, and keep on working on hitreg

People usually don't want to hear it - but trades are a direct results of them finding hits being wrongfully invalidated at the point of death.

So this was indeed a significant improovement to hitreg - it just had some unfortunate consequences which is why people don't keep the actual improovements it made in mind

[worldly pagoda]

i dont mind trades, in fact i welcome them much more than projectiles disappearing apon death and being awarded nothing at all

[unborn smelt]

So i wouldn't write off hope that they are working on it

[worldly pagoda]

i hold some hope for it, but when the only thing making it into the publics eye are things of a monetary nature things like this, that in my opinion really matter, are never talked about and seem to be ignored all together

[unborn smelt]

I mean here i'm really stuck between a rock and a hard place...
On one hand i fully agree, the monetisation feels very aggressive and on the nose and i can't blame people if ithey say and feel that this directly reduces the fun they have (altho if factually compared to a lot of other live service game out there it's really fair!)
but then again - hunt is a pretty old pretty niche game, and good hitreg doesn't mean anything if they cannot afford to keep The game alive

@soft river The Specter with slugs doesn't poutperform the Winnie by a lot if at all

[soft river]

i was just thinking of it being a better romero with slugs

i wasn't sure about the specter when i listed it

but the other 2

definitely

[unborn smelt]

the other two and the rival do

because those have a pretty good RoF

The specter not so much - it's equally slow as an uppercut

[soft river]

yeah but rival is only 2 shots

[unborn smelt]

Sure but at 90 RPM!

[little carbon]

@soft river i wouldnt say the winfields primary range is 0-40. Its more like 30 to 90. It can headshot up to 95m. And it outperforms slugs at 30 to 90 by a lot actually

[soft river]

30-90??

do you use conversion pistols up to 95m

85 idk

103 with fmj

or do you use a sparks up to 347m

the winfield gets outperformed past the 40m mark

with normal ammo and or hv (body shots)

you can barely 2 body shot kill with a winfield up to 40m so my 0-40m number is way more accurate to be fair

even a slate can do 100 up to 30m on the chest

thats better than the winfield base ammo

[unborn smelt]

Well --- yes actually.

It all comes down to what you have available and what you're fighting

[soft river]

but is 95m their primary range

[unborn smelt]

If we assume compact vs long - no you don't want that 50-95m fight

if you fight slugs, yes you really want that 40-95m range

because unlike slugs you can actually HS OHK on that range while slugs can't by themselves

[soft river]

i didn't say if you're fighting slugs

[unborn smelt]

well yes - but that's the issue , you first compare it to slugs and say it gets outperformed, then later compare it to non slugs and say it gets outperformed

you're picking and choosing an opponent that will always outperform it given the right scenario

[soft river]

i've drifted away from the slugs comparison a bit

[unborn smelt]

So if we were talking about Winnie vs Slugs in the beginning - then lets stay with Winnie vs slugs

and then you very much want to max the potential range of a Winnie

[soft river]

i was more so talking about how this person thinks that the 1873's primary range is 30-90

[unborn smelt]

It is

It can't goe toe to toe with everything in that range

but that is where the winnie shines the most, sub 30m it really needs levering or stops being very effective against the majority of other stuff, however HV ammo make it a pretty deadly headclicker up to ~90m, and sure it can't compete very well with a mosin, but then you also payed like 40$ vs a mosins 400$

[soft river]

its like 150 with the 1873 and 100 with the 1873c

at that price a centennial is better

hv sucks once again (wow no big surprise)

[craggy pike]

the compact winnie gets a greater ammo reserve too

medium ammo is such a letdown, like compact+

[soft river]

its still better than compact

a centennial can 2 body shot with even base ammo at 40m, while a winfield can barely do it

mainly due to the extra damage

[unborn smelt]

Personal prefrence tbh - the base Winnie gets far more ammo to spare and still better RoF

it also is still good with levering

[soft river]

hv makes it worse

[unborn smelt]

raises the kick a bit

not really that bad

[soft river]

no

well yes

but its also the spread

[unborn smelt]

pretty sure it doesn't add spread...

[soft river]

yes it does

it makes the hipfire thing bigger

its more noticeable on weapons like the vet marksman or deadeye

but it does make it bigger

[unborn smelt]

Afaik it doesn't - since when is it supposed to do that

[soft river]

i used to be a vetterlicel and added hv before i was enlightened about the centennial

and i noticed a big difference

its because hv directly reduces the handling stat

[unborn smelt]

I'm hopping on training to see for myself rn

[unborn smelt]

nah - handling also decreases with inrcreased recoil

which HV definetly has

So that's not a good reason - altho it's also not evidence for the opposite

[craggy pike]

i will buy a skin on sale when crytek adds all of the proper gun stats

[unborn smelt]

Nah just tried it

no diffrence

[soft river]

with levering

[unborn smelt]

I'm rather sure it makes no diffrence - but i'll give it a try too

[crystal plume]

Levering makes hip fire accuracy worse in general

Doesn't depend on the ammo type

Same with fanning

[unborn smelt]

As you can see - no diffrence. HV ammo doesn't reduce hipfire accuracy

[soft river]

i swear it did

[unborn smelt]

It does increase recoil tho

[craggy pike]

the problem is in the Handling stat trying to account for all of these important factors

[unborn smelt]

that's what leads to the handling being decreased

Here it says what all contributes to handling (making it a pretty garbage stat that most players missinterpret)

tonns of people still think handling equals sway - which it doesn't. Afaik there are only 3 basic sway models and some "attachments" altering those

[craggy pike]

lol, i love that it calls itself abstract

the UI update can't come soon enough

[crystal plume]

@empty sigil Interesting how you are able to "predict" where bosses are based on extractions when atm they are completely unrelated, and they already made it so that at least one extraction is 500m away from the others and it is intended to be like that

[frosty garnet]

@queen jungle, your post below has been deleted, as it doesn't follow the required format.
You can find all guidelines pinned in the ideas channel.

Please feel free to re-post your idea using the correct format:
Matched regex in message in #game-ideas (#suggestions-ideas, 524577494863708180):

since there is a 'duos wiped' counter, add a 'trios wiped' counter as well```

[small iris]

Anyone else think frag bows and explosive crossbows are the dumbest thing to be implemented in hunt showdown?

[hardy pulsar]

No, because by not refreshing it, and making each black market tailored to each user (which is the case, never have I seen the black market be the same for all, mine differs from what @jagged wagon posted), they have an easier time targeting users with items that they don't currently own, pushing them to buy just to access higher tiers

[dim heron]

So what you're saying... is if someone wants to buy something at a heavy discount, with no form of fomo at all.... they can?

They're not tailored to a members account, why would they have already purchased items on there purchasable for Hunt Dollars when they could just put all BB items on there you don't own? The only thing I would say is predatory about them is the 25bb to reroll but even then you only have 3 tries... 75 blood bonds, which is what, a day of games, if that.

[hardy pulsar]

If they aren't tailored in some way, why would they differ from user to user if no user has rerolled? What are the odds that myself, with the collectors edition plus countless other discount purchases, only has 4 or less of the 10 items already owned for each of the dealers? (hint, those odds are slim)

[dim heron]

Well, DLC items arn't in the black market so your collectors edition really means nothing.

They're not tailored to an account in any way what so ever, "why would they differ", RNG?

[hardy pulsar]

It always cracks me up when people say "heavy discount" when it relates to digital currency and digital property, like it is some kind of incentive.

Like it has any cost tied to it outside of digital artist time, which pays permanent dividends in perpetuity, with no ongoing production cost.

[dim heron]

?? Digital currency still costs real money if not acquired in game for free like Hunt allows you to thankfully

wat

Digital artists are on pay role, I highly doubt they make dividends

[hardy pulsar]

https://tenor.com/view/lord-pleas-help-oh-no-gif-25461814

[dim heron]

ah I understand what you mean

The user is still purchasing the item, with real money... your sentence still makes no sense

"Heavy Discout to the customer? Psh, like it costs the Devs anything after they make it"

like what

[craggy pike]

The company has lost money paying those artists, and they have to hope that enough people spend money on the skins to make it worth the money spent on the artist's effort, and hopefully make a profit afterwards

[hardy pulsar]

It does. Digital art has a one time initial cost in labor. Once produced, it costs nothing to "make more" to sell an unlimited quantity to any customer. The labor cost in paying the digital artist is recouped quickly. Basically, to make this simple, it is like department stores saying "MSRP $1000, but with our AMAZING 98% discount, this whatzit will only cost you $20!!!" Except the department store actually has a cost associated for each item produced and sold.

[dim heron]

what

even

[craggy pike]

what's your point in all this?

[dim heron]

Michael Jordon is that you?

Is Bugs with you? that spacejam reach

[hardy pulsar]

This was all related to black market discussion

[dim heron]

From "Black market bad" to "Don't pay your artists"

all in a short time

[craggy pike]

you want it to reset to put new skins on sale

[hardy pulsar]

No, another player was complaining that it did not reset on its own with a high enough frequency

[tawny meadow]

Sorry, i'm still missing the point

I'm trying to catch up

But i'm failing

[dim heron]

#feedback-discussion message

this was the original comment

vv#feedback-discussion message

my response

You sarcastically stated they would have no way to mooch money off it's customers, yet not resetting it does nothing like that..

then you started going on about other stuff which who knows what happened there

[craggy pike]

yea i'm confused too, the fact that the market items don't reset often is a good thing for people that would prefer to grind BB instead of feel compelled by FOMO to buy BB before the 40% sale goes away

i think it's really funny that with all the pushes for monetization, they didn't refresh the 3 rerolls every week or something

because there's nothing more annoying than it landing on a skin you don't want, rerolling, buying the next item, then it goes back to that same skin you don't want. do that two more times and you can never reroll on that banner

i wouldn't've minded spending 25BB here and there to get a skin i wanted, but i'm not gunna drop 540 on Frog Vetterli because it's in my way

[dim heron]

I re-rolled to an item and re-rolled again to the original item

pain

[craggy pike]

yeesh

it's funny that it can land on a skin you own, and you can buy it for Hunt Dollars at a 40% discount

[dim heron]

best Legendary Hunters I ever bought lol

120hd or something lol

[hardy pulsar]

That right there is the FOMO element, btw.

Gating access to the skin you actually want with less desirable skins in front of it

[craggy pike]

yes

[dim heron]

fomo of a sale though, not the item. The item will always be in the store

[craggy pike]

but it's over a much longer span of time

[dim heron]

it also doesn't reset(yet, they'll tell us when), so you could still get the item

you're not missing out

so no need to fear

[craggy pike]

you'd miss out on the semi-rare 40% discount at that time

just figure you'll get it eventually when it goes on sale normally or something

[dim heron]

which apparently doesn't mean anything to him because apparently digital currency is nothing

[craggy pike]

no need falling for instant-gratification

[craggy pike]

that's not very constructive

[dim heron]

#feedback-discussion message

just bringing to light their past opinion

not 10 min ago

[craggy pike]

ye, i saw it, it was funny

[hardy pulsar]

FOMO of a sale versus FOMO of an item is a semantic argument - sales gimmicks are sales gimmicks lol

some will fall for it

Common sense is far from common lol

[craggy pike]

it's more of a sliding scale of how obnoxious the FOMO is

it comes down to what each individual can tolerate

regardless, the black market stuff is just discounted items, there's no downside for the player

[dim heron]

No it's not, Fomo of an item you will never get again Ie. One of the Twitch drops skins (we don't know if they're coming back)

Vs

Fomo of a sale, the item is still there.... you can still buy it... it will be on sale again statistically

[craggy pike]

I'd disagree with that, the fear of missing out on the discount can apply to some

[dim heron]

but it's nothing like missing out on an item

[craggy pike]

certainly not, i agree with you there

[dim heron]

Never get again, vs saving 100bb

[craggy pike]

like i was saying, there are varying degrees

[dim heron]

For sure, but my comment was towards "It's a semantic argument"

[craggy pike]

yea, i disagree with that as well

[hardy pulsar]

you're splitting hairs lol