the-water-cooler

[lone dagger]

I appreciate you recognizing the struggles of these kinds of changes. 🙂

[mortal walrus]

i kinda expected "the media bar" to be people talking about things like music players that can be controlled from ha, music library apps, etc. but it seems to be a general off topic music and video chat, for example.

[forest edge]

threads in this channel would work IF they showed as sub channels on the left for everyone, not just the ones who seeked them out and participated in

[sterile ferry]

thank you.

[forest edge]

static threads that is.. not ones users create on thier own

[grand vortex]

Yeah threads are handled poorly

[forest edge]

sub sub channels would actually be useful lol

[grand vortex]

The dream for me would be if one could grab a message from a chat and turn it into a topic in a support forum

[lone dagger]

I wouldn't let conversations about that be shoved into support necessarily. For example, chatting about or showing off how you got MA working would be fitting.

[grand vortex]

But that's not possible

[iron granite]

What sub-communities would make really sense from your points of view?
Given, that they are not for support but more for socializing - and their number should be limited

[forest edge]

MA? Missy Arena?

[hollow glacier]

the biggest four lost were #hardware-archived #diy-archived #zigbee-archived and #zwave-archived

[mortal walrus]

MA probably refers to music-assistant here, I recently started using (and contributing) to that, cool project :)

[lone dagger]

This is exactly what can be done in text channels, and that isn't something that can be managed from a community management standpoint. It's not standard practice in text channels to create threads.

[forest edge]

how does one get Missy Arena working I wonder...

[lone dagger]

Apologies, I made an assumption there.

[grand vortex]

Ideally it would remove the message and create a topic in a forum, right now it simply creates a thread that you need to go out of your way to find

[forest edge]

in smaller communities tho the forum channel types work quite well for some things

[grand vortex]

Forum posts have better discoverability than chat threads

[lone dagger]

Which is silly, because the chat threads came first.

[grand vortex]

Indeed

Feels like they just abandoned threads

[lone dagger]

Discord being classic Discord.

[forest edge]

for a bit there I thought they were going to make it like an alternative to buisnesses needing websites lol

[mortal walrus]

yeah, well, chat threads in discord (and matrix too, but that's another story) were never really implemented well. They seem to mostly work as a way to hide away a conversation :(

[arctic quarry]

forums would be kinda fine if the search worked

[lone dagger]

And that's something I really don't want to do. Which is what lead to me having the other channels here open instead of role-gated.

[mortal walrus]

which for support is sometimes helpful, if you're talking to someone and need to reduce distraction of other conversations which might confuse them.

[lone dagger]

Oh, I found a solution to this, hang on lemme see if I can get the trick to work again.
-# I totally forgot about this shit.

[arctic quarry]

-# A palpable excitement grew in the chat

[mortal walrus]

Huh. what is the intended location for stuff that used to be in #diy-archived ? Is that supposed to go into ... related-tech i guess?

[lone dagger]

OKAY. So, searching in the channel is stupid.

BUT if you use the server's global search in:<channel> and type the keyword, that is how you pull up comments in threads in forum channels.

[static schooner]

as in it doesn't actually search the content of each post?

[arctic quarry]

oh interesting

[lone dagger]

I'll get screenshots if it helps.

I need to get it up somewhere, too....

[static schooner]

this thing is a lie:

[lone dagger]

Maybe in the best posting practices.

[lone dagger]

"search titles" more like it.

[candid viper]

Hey everyone o7 Of course, my HA journey has to start on the day the Discord is being revamped 😄

[static schooner]

then you're the perfect test case 🙂

[arctic quarry]

actually, to be more precise: they do this elastic search thing now where searching for "foo" also matches "foos" and similar variants. makes it kinda hard to pin down things sometimes.

[lone dagger]

DIY is actually kind of weird. I put support for it in #1284966353798697001 but would love to see people share their projects for them in #1284960456880029707.

The ESPHome server has a show off channel that allows me to see a lot of cool things I would have otherwise missed in a muted channel.

[lone dagger]

Welcome to the circus. 😄

[candid viper]

Thank you kindly!

[mortal walrus]

diy encompasses a rather large category of stuff; sure esphome and similar, but also purely hardware things that don't directly involve home assistant integrations at all like people asking for advice on mounting/diffusing led strips and things like that.

[candid viper]

I'm currently trying to find something to install HA onto because it didn't work on my laptop (no supervisor), the RPi I put it on only has 1GB of RAM so the STT/TTS just caused it to stop responding and power cycle.. 😫

[arctic quarry]

anyway, I just stopped by to say A) thanks for keeping a tidy server and B) I MADE A THING HOLY GOD THIS IS ADDICTIVE. this little sucker is a scene selctor, and when I press a specific button it switches to a scene with a higher lighting level.

[candid viper]

Very nice!

[arctic quarry]

suddenly, my IKEA Trådfri button has a new purpose as a Master Control Panel

[lone dagger]

OH Well you're in luck, actually! The #1284966617670881350 channel has a Recommendation tag specifically for your situation!

[candid viper]

You got that working? That's a good sign as I have scheduled a trip to IKEA specifically to get some of those!

[arctic quarry]

yeah

ping me for details

but it's really straightforward

up and down on the remote are separate events, so just go to town

[mystic cypress]

Yeah, most of the time, I only ever had #zigbee open in the HA Discord. Always responded to questions when I saw them there and had time. The reason of mostly doing that on Discord was because I don't have to click through specific forum threads.
Zigbee/Thread/Matter/Z-Wave are all big technologies that (IMO) deserve their own chat space. I don't care that much, but it does mean that I can't easily answer questions anymore.

[lone dagger]

I have something like this set up for my son's room and our mud room!

[arctic quarry]

it's so cleeean

[candid viper]

I'm not sure they could help/ because it's "install it on something I have". My current potential target is a ZOTAC ION-ITX-A..

[arctic quarry]

I mean, it's neat to have endless scrolls of toggles and switches, but the whole point of HA is to stay out of your cognitive space imho

if you're not thinking about it, you're doing it right

[candid viper]

I just need to find the (a?) power supply for it.

[mortal walrus]

but yeah, i think the thing that i'd like is maybe more on-topic/focused community channels where talking about stuff unrelated to HA is discouraged, with the consideration of specific channels for topics that have largish communities but only affect a subset of people (for example, zigbee/z-wave were irrelevant except to people who bought into a specific radio tech)

[arctic quarry]

I actually bought one of those $100 boardputers (Friendlyelec CM3588 fwiw) and while it's a tad splurgy it really chugs along nicely. I also plan to have it as a secondary NAS so it's kind of a twofer

[mortal walrus]

like, i'd be much more inclined to hang out in kitchen if it was people talking about connected appliances and things instead of sharing what they made for dinner.

[lone dagger]

Ahhhhh okay. Hmmm, yeah, maybe someone (like above lol) knows.

Interesting scenario presented.

[lone dagger]

You know what, I had that in mind as something people would talk about in there, but I didn't really make it clear in the description...

Kind of like I expect people to talk about yard automations in #home-and-garden.

[candid viper]

I do have a RPI 4B 4GB but it is currently my main router, so if I can switch it out with a WS-AP3865i and free it up, HA might end up on that, but right now, I just want to get it set up and working (this is my first foray into home automation stuff).

Mainly I want to get this Sonoff POW-CT connected so I can calculate how much electricity my workshop is using so I can pay for it..

[mortal walrus]

to me it feels right now like most of the community category is off-topic channels, which is why i feel like i'm missing on-topic chat channels.

[arctic quarry]

I dunno what others experienced, but for my first attempt I actually settled on running HA Container in Docker, since I was planning on using the CM3588 for various hacks. I haven't really missed the addons so far.

[candid viper]

I hit the lack of addons immediately because I need ESPHome.

[arctic quarry]

oh dang

[lone dagger]

Hmmmmmm okay, so I am reading that you want help getting things installed. That should be #1284966540617449515 - it should help cover all the things you're needing based on what you've said so far.

[iron granite]

ESPHome can be installed as a container

[candid viper]

And I have err... M5 Atom Echo thing? Needs addons for that too.

[arctic quarry]

yeah was gonna say

[candid viper]

I did get things set up on that 1GB PI, it just crashed whenever I tried to use it 🙂

[arctic quarry]

😦

[mortal walrus]

thing to remember is that addons are just docker containers, so everything they do can be done with plain docker - but it does require more work to set things up and integrate them :(

[candid viper]

I'm pretty sure due to the 1GB of RAM (I read that 4GB is more along the lines of what is expected)

[lone dagger]

@mortal walrus What about a kind of off topic DIY or hardware channel here?

I say off topic but what I really mean is "not support".

[mortal walrus]

an on topic DIY/hardware channel, for people diying things related to home assistant

[candid viper]

Which just prompted me to check what RAM I have in this ZOTAC board. 2GB of DDR2. I'm sure that'll be fine 😄

[arctic quarry]

lol, my lights just informed me it's midnight, time to take off 🙂 lovely chat!

[lone dagger]

Okay. I cannot make that happen today - and I am running tomorrow's birthday livestream and Q&A after. BUT I am throwing this idea into https://discord.com/channels/330944238910963714/1285154411114532935 so I do not lose it.

[candid viper]

Rest well! Goodnight!

[mortal walrus]

Yeah - i guess a clear statement of my thoughts is that I'd like to see some community chat channels that are specifically for "on topic" (home assistant related) discussion of various topics - either by general category of discussion, or for sub-sections of the community focused on an aspect of home assistant which isn't relevant to all home assistant users.

[candid viper]

I've recently started to use Docker and I really don't like it. I presume because I've not got the "mindset" people are using it with yet.

But it works so weirdly and people's instructions on their projects for using it are.. weirdly wrong. Like what they say to do would always result in a Bad Experience.

(Dashy being the main culprit of that).

[lone dagger]

Maybe a mistake I made was talking about them more as off-topic channels when I really do just mean "not support". The intent of that was to make it an easier transition to those used to just the off-topic channel, but I do see that this caused people to feel left out.

I sincerely did not intend to do that.

[mortal walrus]

I think having clear topic names rather than trying to be clever about it helps people find appropriate community channels more easily, too.

like, "the media bar" would probably be better named "music and video" or something

although i guess you're trying to be inclusive of more types of media than that

[lone dagger]

Yep. The other way was to create separate channels for those, like I know other servers do.

The concern I had was too many new community channels at once.

-# I am going silent but only because I have to do regularly scheduled parenting things. Please continue conversations. :3

[forest edge]

discord would be neat if you could do static sub channels that showed up like this under the parent

[hoary canyon]

Better yet discord just needs to handle threads better

[forest edge]

well sub channels and threads are pretty much the same thing in reference

[hoary canyon]

Yeah, threads in its current state are just harder to navigate to than channels

(unless you’ve chatted in one)

[forest edge]

oh I was unaware of this. threads can only have 1k people lol

[hoary canyon]

interesting. Not like it would ever get to 1000 people in most servers anyways lol

[mortal walrus]

many things that were threads in the old channels really are better suited to becoming forum topics, i think, although having to manually repost rather than just continuing discussion is kind of annoying.

[shy garden]

For 24x7 operation I picked up a used I5 NUC with a new SSD from eBay. Newegg is another option. I'm running ubuntu with HA in Docker. No Addons, but integrations and front end elements from HACS.

[forest edge]

what version of rpi?

[candid viper]

RPi 4.

[forest edge]

you said 1gb of mem..

don't they start at 2

[candid viper]

The 1GB version was discontinued.

[forest edge]

oh i guess they did release a 1gb version

either way 1 gb is enough to install HA

[candid viper]

Install it, yes.

[forest edge]

I run HA on an rpi3

[candid viper]

Run it, sure.

Run local speech to text and text to speech models? No.

😄

[forest edge]

really?

[lone dagger]

WHOOF yeah that’s a hard problem to solve.

[forest edge]

my rpi3 handles cameras

is speech really that much more demanding?

[candid viper]

As far as I can tell. HA reports the RAM usage goes to 100%, HA stops responding and then the Pi power cycles itself.

[lone dagger]

If you’re using local LLMs yeah.

[forest edge]

crazy

[candid viper]

I presume the power cycling is some kind of watchdog thing.

[forest edge]

heat more liekly

[lone dagger]

I plan on solving that problem myself by utilizing my gaming/streaming PC.

[forest edge]

if the pi can't throttle down to keep heat at check it will turn off

[candid viper]

I need to look into if I can offload that stuff to one of my other machines. I have 3 machines with RTX 2060's and 1 with a 3090 for ML/AI stuff.. it should hand it off to one of those!

I thought it was heat too so I added active cooling. It made no difference.

[forest edge]

liquid cool

wonder if an rpi5 with an external gpu could do it lol

[candid viper]

I did manage to get it to respond once.

With "Sorry, I didn't understand that"

Which seems to be another problem because it responds the same way when I click the assist button and type to it as well.

But other that that, the webui would disconnect and then it would power cycle.

I'm pretty sure the issue is that it just starts swapping and not responding and a watchdog goes "Oh, I seem to have crashed or something, time to cycle the power!"

[forest edge]

lol maybe

[candid viper]

So I'm not particularly fussed. I'm more bothered that I can't find one of my computers that I could install iton 😄

[forest edge]

funny a quick google shows all these mini pc's struggling with it yet the snapdragons in phones seem to handle LLM just fine

[candid viper]

Because it isn't a CPU issue, it's a RAM issue? Phones tend to have >1GB RAM.

Modern ones that people run LLMs on, I'd imagine anyway.

[forest edge]

first post was about the fold 4

[candid viper]

Fold 4? The one with 12GB of RAM?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samsung_Galaxy_Z_Fold_4

[forest edge]

I guess.. they were talking about the snapdragon 8

course nvida makes a toolkit device for it and it costs and arm and leg

shocker

[candid viper]

LLMs are (V)RAM limited for capability and CPU/GPU limited for speed.

Which is why I want another 3090. It goes 20x faster than my 2060s 😎

[forest edge]

oh here we go

words of wisdom incomming

[tidal bronze]

Still no "Action Button" like iPhone 16

[forest edge]

i knew it

[tidal bronze]

1st time wife goes "don't pre-order the new iPhone for me" I am ecstatic. Perhaps this will help me to get rid of the only apple device in the house.

[forest edge]

hey apple has that beta mode for seniors.. you might need it lol

[tidal bronze]

I have 2 in the backpack never even take it out.

[forest edge]

I put this on a cheap smart phone for my mom.. so far so good. lol https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=name.kunes.android.launcher.demo&hl=en_US

[tidal bronze]

One day if and when I need glasses

[forest edge]

that shit wasn't cheap.. extortionist

[tidal bronze]

Even my mom uses standard UI.

[forest edge]

my mom couldn't even handle a tablet many years ago

[tidal bronze]

2 to 3 cancels per uber ride but it's ok 😆

[forest edge]

https://youtube.com/shorts/NxYfeuBD-1s?si=X2LU8xkRBW784VJl

road trip!

[static schooner]

for my mom, it's also a matter of dexterity and accurately tapping small things

[tidal bronze]

I enabled high sensitivity and it works fine. She is just impatient with Uber.

[whole sphinx]

anyone here tested the new unifi protect? with onvif support?

[forest edge]

stylus

they even put those little ball things on gloves lol

one of the big buttons on my moms phone is the voice assist. i just told her to hit that and speak wtf she wants lol

[tidal bronze]

But HA tracking on Android is spot on. When she gets super mad, messages me for Uber. Most Dr Office address and entrace is on opposite ends. I would think Uber would've already solved this. HA to the the rescue so I can order Uber from other side of the country.

[forest edge]

google maps has that. no way to get that into HA i think but when i open my maps app I see her google icon on the map

it has built in when the person leaves or arrives at specific address notifications too

[tidal bronze]

I did have gmaps sharing but HA address is super accurate and quick. Copy paste to Uber and go.

[vast egret]

wellp, zooz 800LR water sensors are on sale at the smartest house... time to upgrade 😁

[tidal bronze]

It's been awhile since I heard smartest house.

[forest edge]

I didn't think you liked the HA ui? Aren't you suppose to have a button on your phone that just auto collects that information auto sends it to uber? lol

[tidal bronze]

That would be the day.

[candid viper]

Actually, that might be a good question. If I do end up installing HA on this ZOTAC or some other hardware I have, is there a place I can document my experience in case someone else wanted to do it too?

[forest edge]

I can see it now, your mom trys messaging you and gets an ai respresentation of you in response while on your phone you get no indication of nothing

[candid viper]

I could also put my experience with the RPI 4 1GB there too.

[tidal bronze]

I wish I didn't have to open the app but in this case I have to make an exception.

[forest edge]

#1284960456880029707 or maybe #creator-connection

[candid viper]

Thanks.

[forest edge]

I heard musk's second version of that brain implant is ready...

[lone dagger]

^^ That’s what will happen with one of those implants.

[static schooner]

with 50% more Musk

[ocean oar]

Every time it comes up I can't help but think of this episode of Fringe, which concerns brain implants: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dream_Logic

[lone dagger]

That show was SO GOOD.

[static schooner]

I love that they had to find new cows in the different shooting locations, in part because they couldn't transport a cow across the US-Canada border

so they worried about whether people would notice that the markings were different, and considered painting the cow, and then (I think) just decided that nobody would care

[tidal bronze]

You got jokes?

Is it like that hyperloop?

[static schooner]

Since that kinda devolved into people driving you around in Teslas, I imagine the implant being some dude in a call center in India driving your brain

[ocean oar]

I also can't help but think of this SNL piece every time Elmo and Mars comes up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FuaDWyCnJxs

[tidal bronze]

I am not that interested is FSD only TSLA. Can't wait to tank -15% so I can win the bet against my wife.

Anyways 7% to go.

[lone dagger]

So like, I had this button that toggles the light in our mud room to override the automation that turns them off. But I wanted it to like… indicate the actual state of the lights and Bill tells me about uh maybe some templates or something. I forgot already, this was a while ago now.

I figured out the solution today.

Just change the icon of the light card to the dog one.

[forest edge]

https://tenor.com/view/british-brain-micro-chip-chip-gif-5965625

[tidal bronze]

Override an automation?

[lone dagger]

Yeah. The doors in the image are the doors that lead into the mud room. When one or both are open, lights are on; but when they’re both closed, wait 10 seconds and then turn the light off.

When we leave the house, the mud room is essentially our dog’s kennel. To override the automation, I toggle the light to make sure it stays on for her while we’re gone.

[tidal bronze]

Can't you leverage away (you OR both) state to complete the loop and not intervene

[lone dagger]

Probably, but I don’t have that set up yet!

The only thing I don’t think that would help with is when I’m home working but my husband leaves to take our son to school… but I’m sure there’s a solution there.

[tidal bronze]

In that case you want to light on?

[lone dagger]

Yep, he puts her in the mud room for the 10 minutes he’s gone.

[tidal bronze]

So track him separately, if he is away, light on.

[tender prism]

Or ble track the dog. If it's in the room, the light is on.

[lone dagger]

I’ll need an exception for when he’s at work with a work zone then. lol.

[tender prism]

simplify

[tidal bronze]

Multiple zones and proximity

[lone dagger]

She doesn’t have a collar, though…

[ocean oar]

Lol, how far away do we think we can detect a pet's microchip from 😄

[lone dagger]

Could just leave one in there?

[tidal bronze]

I would not waste time with a collar until BLE 6.0 is fully implemented

[tender prism]

Train her to push a button if she wants a light on, like you do with us.

[lone dagger]

[tender prism]

Or just an Apolo sensor looking for the heartbeat

[lone dagger]

She probably would. She rings a set of bells on a door to ask to go out.

[tidal bronze]

The logic is pretty easy, you just need to get enough states.

[tidal bronze]

Mmwave is not catered for dog bpm

[lone dagger]

I want to talk to whoever is in charge and demand it’s done.

[tidal bronze]

Lol. Then the range. Pretty short as well.

Will happen give it time.

[lone dagger]

I’m actually using an MSR-2 for my son’s room’s lights.

Freaking love it.

[tidal bronze]

I have mmwave allover the place, actually 2 per zone. Yep gotta love em

[lone dagger]

I want more.

[tidal bronze]

Still need PIR for subsecond triggers

[lone dagger]

They’re magic.

[tidal bronze]

Indeed.

[tender prism]

Now remember Missy, this isn't actual support, it's just strawman chat...

See how easy it happens...

[tidal bronze]

I have inwall zwave PIR, mmwave with pir long distance, mmwave zone based short distance per room/area. And added ultrasonic for toilet to distinguish between 1 and 2

[lone dagger]

Tbf I didn’t ask for help, I was just stating what I was doing and questions were asked.

[tidal bronze]

I just hope mmwave would last a few years.

[lone dagger]

How long do they last? Or have yours?

[tidal bronze]

Oldest one is about year I think or little more.

Zwave 15+

Oldest running 8266 is about 7 years.

Only time will tell 😀

[potent arch]

I fixed up my HA dashboard. Replaced the Tempest integration with the new one, reorganized my cameras, added some other items via scrypted, and updated that guy

all good to go now

[lone dagger]

[mild onyx]

so, govee API not working today for anybody else?

[tender prism]

She has a 95 pound dog, the average heart rate is about the same as people.

[tidal bronze]

Outstanding, let me know how ot works out.

[tame tartan]

Am I reading this right? These clearance hue bulbs i got can't be added to home assistant without a hue hub or a nabu casa cloud account for the emulator?

I thought that was the whole point of buying this zbt1.

[forest edge]

godamn better for the thing I bought!

as if we got money to burn or something

@lone daggerdid images permission gets fixed yet?

[solar zealot]

I might have found out why my current wifi setup is so shit

[forest edge]

you forgot to plug it in?

[solar zealot]

the whole neighborhood is on channel 42

Great auto pick algorithms

[forest edge]

BBC huh.. crazy

[solar zealot]

On a good note there are exactly 0 6ghz networks

So that could be a very easy fix

[forest edge]

you in an apartment?

[solar zealot]

no it's a real house thing

[forest edge]

then how are they close enough to impact you?

[solar zealot]

Probably faulty equipment

[forest edge]

wtf is wifi channel 42 anyway? euro 5ghz?

[tender prism]

Doesn't your router auto-pick? I have 4 AP's they are autopicking the best channels multiple times a day.

[solar zealot]

It's the first 80mhz band if I recall

Oh yea there is the graph

[solar zealot]

The whole neighborhood seems to auto pick the same

[forest edge]

wouldn't that be even shorter range?

[solar zealot]

The hidden ones are suspicious as well as the unnamed numbered ine

[tender prism]

If it's on, it auto-picks based on traffic and noise level. It it's busy, it won't pick it.

[forest edge]

this is reminding me of that linus video where he put like 20 ap's in a room and watched 8 phones have wifi issues

too much wifi

[solar zealot]

I thought about this but it's really just three aps

Well four if the 2.5g one from my fallback 4g connection counts

[forest edge]

think your just gonna have to buy a bunch of powerline adapters

man my feet are freezing

[solar zealot]

for our European people, what he means is that his .304 meters are freezing

winter is coming fast

[forest edge]

how stupid is this to put the battery there. I gotta put a battery disconnect on this car in the coming weeks and I hate this design

https://youtu.be/Ie5Mp6AkzGQ?si=vLjWr-kt9f12_GGX

[solar zealot]

Can you at least safely disconnect it without having to go to a licensed service center to "reprogram" it to the car

[forest edge]

thankfully it's a 2016.. hadn't ticked over to that.. loss power, loss identy of being a car era yet

[solar zealot]

Good good

[hexed spade]

hey Crows 😉 anything you can do to change the color of the new role? it is not very easy on the eye in a light background

somehow its also hard to decipher in a quick glance, I really have to look twice

[forest edge]

throw stones at them

[hexed spade]

haha, same goes for the new Mod color btw.

[ocean oar]

Saturation: 0% 👍

(yes, I am weird)

[forest edge]

bland is the new fad

[hexed spade]

it looks better in a screenshot somehow, but you can clearly see the Mod vanishes against the background

[forest edge]

use dark theme, it helps some lol

[ocean oar]

My view of the same:

[hexed spade]

not all was bad in the former setup.

[hexed spade]

yeah darkmode is a tad better, but I always feel I am drowning in dark mode, swallowed by the deep....so hardly ever use that

[forest edge]

https://tenor.com/view/batman-justice-league-sad-batman-gif-15001826

[hexed spade]

can do this too. at least it makes the name more legible

https://tenor.com/view/2birds1stone-kill-two-birds-one-stone-fall-gif-16421754

[primal vector]

iOS 18 and being able to put assist on the Lock Screen might be my new favourite feature.

[tame tartan]

Does hacs stand for home assistant cloud?

[iron granite]

No

Home Assistant Community Store

[tame tartan]

Ohhhhh, so maybe I can add hue hub stuff without the cloud. That's what was throwing me last night

[silent dove]

Philips Hue

Instructions on setting up Philips Hue within Home Assistant.

Documentation

View the documentation

Quality scale

:trophy: Platinum

IoT Class

Local Push

Integration type

hub

Source

View the source on GitHub

Issues

View known issues

[sleek pecan]

I feel like my question is more geared towards the old #general-archived channel, but I'll start here. Is ratgdo still the go-to smart controller for garage door openers?

[iron granite]

At least for the Chamberlain ones.

For more detailed questions, head to #1284966353798697001

[sleek pecan]

Will do, thanks. Wasn't sure if it was approprtiate to ask here for high level questions, didn't feel as though creating a new thread just for that was needed.

[tame tartan]

That seems to be for adding a hub. I'm looking to use the ha green as my hub.

[iron granite]

In that case you would need an additional Zigbee coordinator stick

[tame tartan]

Sorry I tried to edit my server name to add the 🟢 signifying in a noob, but the names are locked in here i guess

[fresh fox]

that integration is specifically for the Philips Hue bridge hub

[tame tartan]

I have the zbt-1 connected. Though in the integrations that is just showing up as a thread thing with no mention of zigbee

[iron granite]

Head to #1284966353798697001 and create a post with the tags "🟢 New to HA" and "SkyConnect/ZBT-1" for help with changing the ZBT-1 from Thread to Zigbee.

[tame tartan]

Thank you!

[crisp oriole]

I gained my 1st time root access in a tryhackme exploitable vm. Needed to cheat a bit because i did not expect a backup zip in an image

[cursive phoenix]

Hey squad! I'm fairly new to HA, and I've set up a central "family" calendar on the HA device - which is great. But I'd love to be able to add that calendar as one I can see on my iPhone as an additional calendar source within the normal iOS calendar app. Is that achievable?

[crisp oriole]

Peter, i think finding a custom app that can connect to several callendar types would be more successful.

Altough i avoid mac like the plage

[finite charm]

Since automations etc is now read only where do you ask questions to get help

[clever mortar]

#1284965926336335993 can help with the iOS app

#1284980040940912641 ...

Which is linked from the old #automations-archived

[finite charm]

Why not leave it the it was it wasn't broken

[clever mortar]

See #community-updates

[finite charm]

Don't fix what's not broken

[clever mortar]

It was broken

[chrome steppe]

apparently I have been gone from this server for a while.... big changes!

[finite charm]

I always got the help I needed

[chrome steppe]

so.... is there a place to actually post a question now?

[iron granite]

https://discord.com/channels/330944238910963714/1284968640189304913

[chrome steppe]

i dont have permission to post there

[finite charm]

I would said the is what the community forum was for

[chrome steppe]

so is the intent to post in the support discussion thread channels?

sorry y'all, this is horrible UX ... I dont mean that as an insult, I mean it as feedback. Discovery is hard.

[clever mortar]

Yes

Create a topic in the relevant channel - #find-support explains how to find the right one

Do also see the #1284976732428046461 thread

[urban wadi]

I don't like the new thread style either. Not on any server. But I suppose it's the only way to manage a large amount of support efficiently. 🤷

[clever mortar]

It is, the old way had so many problems with interleaved chats causing confusion, plus people who'd wait for things to go "quiet" before posting

[chrome steppe]

I certainly don't envey the mods trying to solve a very hard problem - there was a huge volume of random asks, threads etc. And Discocord doesn't exactly start with the best UI/UX.

I just wonder if there's a better way to onboard people to this new format? Or maybe even a better use for the server? Maybe just steer away from realtime support entirly? (although most of the threads on the forums go unresolved)

[clever mortar]

The whole point of "chat" is more realtime than the forum

[chrome steppe]

well... then 😬

I assume all the mods are unpaid, right?

[clever mortar]

Correct

[urban wadi]

For me it's mostly just annoying when I create a thread and nobody checks the thread. But that's way too early to tell on THIS server. The other annoyance is that I won't pick up neat suggestions simply by "hanging out" in a channel.

[clever mortar]

NC staff are paid, but most mods aren't NC staff

[clever mortar]

Yeah, the second part is a downside

[grand vortex]

I assume this change was discussed internally. It would have been nice to poll the userbase on the topic

[chrome steppe]

Again... hard problem to solve... I don't love gatekeeping newbies and people with fewer resources. But I've often wondered what a $5/€5 support subscritption would do to help the forums and this server? Just a brainstorm idea, not a real proposal.

[chrome steppe]

yeah (and Ill keep saying, I'm not being critical because I'm trolling, but rather because I care) - that's a tentant of UX design - start with the users' needs and user feedback

[lone dagger]

This change has been 6 months in the making. I do not like the insinuation that I did this in a vacuum.

I used feedback from the Crows and the Mods - the 2 most active groups in this server who know every complaint possible. There were 2 big pain points this change solves:

• Too many channels for support - people often just looked for help in General instead.
• People jumped on new users aggressively for not knowing certain things.

Now a) there are significantly less channels and they mostly align with how things are documented externally and b) new users are easier to identify in support channels so those who don't want to spend the time hand holding someone doesn't have to see it.

[grand vortex]

sorry, I see how my message could be misinterpreted. I didn't imply you made the decision on your own, rather that the discussion didn't take place in public (since I don't read everything I might have missed it)

[tender prism]

Do you realize how many people posted in Grneral and were just lost in the noise, or so intimidated that they never posted?

[lone dagger]

And I have had several people who help across the channel who say the forums make it much easier for them to see issues they can help with.

[urban wadi]

Nah. Didn't stay much in that channel.

[grand vortex]

as for the issues you mentioned, there are different ways to go about them.

1. remove general and have a welcome channel instead
2. take action against people that are toxic to users

I haven't seen anyone answer the key question with the new changes: if I want to take part in a forum, why would I use the inferior version that discord provides vs the dedicated HA forum?

[lone dagger]

Meet people where they are. 🙂

It's why I am forced to maintain a FB group despite my absolute hate for Meta.

As for your #2 point - that was REALLY hard to do with the old rules.

[cursive phoenix]

thanks for the advice @crisp oriole

[clever mortar]

Removing #general-archived would just move the problem to another channel

[tawny flume]

eurk META...unsuscribe for many years....the opposite side of open

[cursive phoenix]

to all the mods watching; is there a channel for users to speak with other users and get as much help as is available, without there being an expectation of support from Mods? I'm sure lots of the users are happy helping redirect novice users (like myself for most topics) to the resources they found most useful?

[clever mortar]

The whole server is for that

Mods don't have special knowledge downloaded

Anybody can, and should, help anybody

[cursive phoenix]

Glad to hear it. The thread above made it sound otherwise, so I wanted to check

[clever mortar]

A lot of the above is people uncomfortable with change

Which... is totally human

[lone dagger]

Have you ever seen a change that Xitter or FB made that people did not rage over?

[clever mortar]

I have many stories of change causing toys to be yeeted, even the most insignificant changes

[grand vortex]

that doesn't require switching to forum, but a rule change or enforcing the rules. Although when the abusive behavior comes from people in the mod team it is not so easy I'm sure.

At any rate, if you all think this is for the best so be it. I'm not sure what tools discord provides to monitor activity but I would be curious to see results a few months out

[clever mortar]

I'm on a few other servers that did this, it's been universally a positive change

[lone dagger]

I have a ton of insights I dug into before making any changes.

Before even suggesting changes.

[tender prism]

Just read over the catagories and topics and lend a hand anywhere. If you need something use the topics and helper posts to figure out where your stuff fits best and ask away. If you start a technical series of posts in one of the Community-updates channels we will help you move your conversation, otherwise pick one and go.

[lone dagger]

And I will even reiterate, I made a poor choice in announcing the community section as "off-topic". I used that as a way to make it easier to understand the changes overall and am working to fix that.

As seen here: https://discord.com/channels/330944238910963714/1285154411114532935

[tawny flume]

Today Help seem to be a fastfood, lots of info are already post on github, wiki, forum, etc

[lone dagger]

New users to HA do not understand GitHub. I have worked in tech for 15 years and do not understand GitHub. Our documentation is subpar, and not everyone likes forum websites.

Meeting people where they are. 🙂

[halcyon magnet]

Everyone hates change, I get that, but I do think we likely lost some of what worked well with this change. The Zigbee channel was great, since a large number of developers and vendors hung out in the chat, there was an organic flow as well as high likelihood that someone knowledgeable would see your issue and respond. It remains to be seen if that comes back or not.

[lone dagger]

Please to see this. 🙂

Most of what y'all are saying is rehashed already from what people talked with me about yesterday.

[tawny flume]

Missy: You're right but I thing HA are complex for advance usage and must have a learning curve to do non common things

[lone dagger]

Absolutely, but if we are making the project easier to adopt why would we force them to onboard onto something they aren't comfortable with?

[clever mortar]

The good news is that search and solved tags should help people find solutions, or at least partial ones

[lone dagger]

I don't even follow process for reporting issues - I still do it directly to my engineering team.

[clever mortar]

Good luck doing that before

[thorny pier]

https://tenor.com/view/waterfall-water-flowing-gif-15637119

embed fail 🤦‍♂️

[lone dagger]

Aaaaaaand as much as I would like to sit here and talk over y'all's frustrations (genuinely, I am super interested in y'all's points) I have a birthday stream I have to prepare for in a few hours. SO, I will be back later to talk through things if needed.

[lone dagger]

Fixed.

[thorny pier]

https://tenor.com/view/waterfall-water-flowing-gif-15637119

[lone dagger]

WHAT

[thorny pier]

hehe

[lone dagger]

Okay NOW????

[thorny pier]

https://tenor.com/view/waterfall-water-flowing-gif-15637119

[grand vortex]

an embed just failed for me in dms, might be discord wide issue

[lone dagger]

wtf

[lone dagger]

oh okay phew let's hope.

[clever mortar]

https://media.tenor.com/images/3918dde3a76af83aeb3457420c4b7b5e/tenor.gif

Yup, Discord

[thorny pier]

https://example.com/

werdio discord

[last cedar]

Literally unplayable

[iron granite]

https://tenor.com/view/kowalski-noted-penguins-penguins-of-madagascar-gif-6940210783199332877

[thorny pier]

https://tenor.com/view/waterfall-water-flowing-gif-15637119

there we go @lone dagger

[clever mortar]

https://tenor.com/view/hype-happy-minions-gif-5943282

[last cedar]

https://tenor.com/view/raccoon-funny-dance-benito-cute-gif-13613793235894798285

[thorny pier]

https://tenor.com/view/silly-cat-gif-9932302741015539393

[muted kiln]

I know this isn't a support channel but I thought I'll ask anyways
is duckdns resolve failure still commonplace? I seem to be getting it far too frequently and am not sure what to do about it (Been using them for a year at this point and these issues started like a month ago?)
Or any alternatives?

[tidal bronze]

CF tunnel and be done with it.

[clever mortar]

DuckDNS fails are normal

Own domain + CF (tunnels or dynamic DNS) FTW

[muted kiln]

not just webserver purposes

I would use it if it wasn't just webserver

so I guess I'll buy my own domain then, it's about time
Thanks I thought my server hardware was bad

[tidal bronze]

Sure. Other than 200mb+ uploads, CF works like a charm. Set it and forget. +1 getting your own domain.

[tame tartan]

So here's potentially a weird scenario: I've got a switch in my living room that's hardwired to turn on and off 2 separate outlets. Clearly, great opportunity for a couple lamps! I found some hue lights on clearance at Lowe's and put them in the lamps. If I install a caseta dimmer, will it be able to dim both lamps and also control on/off without killing power to the smart bulbs?

[grand vortex]

Pretty common scenario, you need a switch that supports detached mode. ESPhome can do it, and you can even configure it in failsafe mode (if no HA / wifi connection, trigger the relay instead)

[tame tartan]

Do caseta switches support detached?

My choices are somewhat limited by having no neutral unfortunately

[grand vortex]

not sure, shelly has a model with no neutral that supports that

[tame tartan]

Awesome, I look into that, thanks!

Would esphome enable double tap on caseta switches or pico remotes?

[sterile wasp]

Yeah, if I wanted to use a forum, I'd go to a forum and not onto Discord.

[keen bridge]

It would be worth posting in #1284966353798697001 for that 😉

[chrome steppe]

anyone ever used the attribute of an entity to change the color of a mushroom card? I'm running into challenges #1285603494950207581 message

[keen bridge]

Just give people a bit to respond. Not everyone is free every minute of the day 😉

[static schooner]

please continue there

[chrome steppe]

that wasn't my expectation - I know forums are asyncronous and take time for people to read them. Just trying to do a little surfacing since discovery isn't intuitive any more

(and it's been 2.75 hours, which again, isn't that much time for a forum, so I'll be patient)

[keen bridge]

Discovery is now more intuitive than it was before. People can easily see posts which are still unanswered instead of scrolling through and looking to see if anyone has answered.

This is why there is a ✅ Resolved tag to make it faster too.

[chrome steppe]

ill have to do some research on discord notifications too. There doesnt seem to be an easy way to see replies without checking back manually and there's never been an easy way to filter for mentions of one's own name without going to th search every time

[lone dagger]

There is a notifications center in Discord for those.

But also - that is a huge pain point I am trying to solve.

It will take time because I need to investigate bots for thread tag notifications, but it's top of my list to get working.

[chrome steppe]

Again, I really respect the reasons for the change and I respect the heck out of the mods and the experts in the community. But as a career service and experience designer, I'm telling y'all, this isn't more user friendly ... I'm sure there's ways we can evolve and refine this. But for now, I'm glad everyone is open to the feedback.

HA has a support issue (again, I know tone is lost in text so I promise I'm not griping)... it has been a challenge and barrier to entry for some time. And I applaud efforts to reduce that barrier. I just think it is going to take some considered work.

[prisma briar]

I'm still hoping they'll reconsider the Discord forums approach too, but so far they seem to be ignoring feedback on that and are just trying to convince people it's better.

[fresh fox]

"Feedback" is to be read as a whole, not just by falling prey to the confirmation bias

[chrome steppe]

im ok with them prototype testing this concept as long as they are learning and iterating and that seems to be the case

[tame tartan]

I just discovered in my first thread support that you can manually opt into all notifications, but it defaults to only mentions. Something to consider for the support folks when they first respond.

[chrome steppe]

feedback is just data, it is a reflection of sentiment, usability, desireability, and feasability - until something is really refined it usually best not to take it literally but as a reflection of a feeling, hope, or need

[grand vortex]

Wouldn't call fully switching the discord to forum 'prototype testing'. Going back to how things were before would be very annoying to manage

[fresh fox]

So maybe your feedback is not ignored, but just not significant enough to take back a switch planned (and user tested) over many months 🤷🏻‍♂️

[chrome steppe]

ok... I've been fighting discord notifications for a long time. I'm not sure I'll ever have them tuned right

[chrome steppe]

well in that case... 😬

[prisma briar]

Eh, every time I've seen a response to the 'why is this a forum now' complaint it's been in a dismissive tone and not a "we recognize there's an issue" tone.

[grand vortex]

Since ESPHome is managed by the same team and is 1/4 the size it could have been a good option to test it there for example

[chrome steppe]

maybe there is data in that tone, or your preception of it

[fresh fox]

#the-water-cooler message very dismissive /s

[chrome steppe]

I've built so many products and services and if I took it personally when a user gave me negative feedback I dont think I'd get out of bed 🤣

[prisma briar]

Yea, I'm trying not to crap on anyone trying to help, but almost all of the recent changes feel very unnecessary.

It very much feels like change just to change things.

[fresh fox]

The reponse to that question is better "searchability" and better organization, if you choose to accept that answer

[grand vortex]

That's not taking feedback on the change, that's making the change work better. Even if the switch was universally praised improving notifications would have been done anyway

[chrome steppe]

Anyway, I will personally veer off of this. I know this is all a community effort and no one is getting paid. If feedback isn’t helpful and or the new changes, make it easier for the volunteers then I can respect that decision.

[fresh fox]

It was the latest message i could find. Do you want me to search for more just for the sake of argument?

[prisma briar]

I don't buy that. There's no change to the ability to search and this method of organization is not suitable to a chat environment.

[grand vortex]

go ahead, I've read every message (i was the first to make a complaint :p)

[prisma briar]

ngl if I had first joined this server and saw it laid out like this I would have immediately left.

And gone and posted on the actual forums

[chrome steppe]

OK, I’ll add one more quick thing… There is added complexity in the inherent conflation of the UXUI choices and limitations in discord and the choices the server moderators make.

[grand vortex]

if anything, I've had vibes of the opposite being true with the message I just quoted. when similar feedback is provided by new users, the answer is not "we've already had this discussion before". if more people have something to say, that means what's being said has higher importance

[chrome steppe]

To be fair, plopping new users into a nonstop, ongoing discussion with many topics repeated, ignored, or discussed in depth was also a total nightmare. This is a really hard challenge to solve.

[mortal walrus]

For assisting with a single person's support issue, the forum interface is better than discord threads imo... But I appreciated the in channel back and forth on quick questions, and several of the closed channels were also used for non support discussion.

[prisma briar]

which is why options are nice, having two forums isn't really an option.

[grand vortex]

I'm not against forum channels, I find them great for support. but I am against the whole server being turned into a forum for the main topic

[sterile wasp]

The point of "rehashing" an issue is to voice the (un)popularity of an issue.

[prisma briar]

I'm not against forums but now there's no place to chat

and there already were forums

[chrome steppe]

I want to also spend some time reflecting on why I feel differently about the ESP home discord.… I think it’s because there is a mix of open conversation with embedded detailed threads for specific issues

[chrome steppe]

I think you’re on to something about the multiple “jobs to be done “of this server and community

[fresh fox]

I'll just say this: i've been wearing both the need-help-hat and the offer-help-hat here. In both those roles, searching for answers (for myself or for others) was a PITA. And when searching sucks and people don't/can't use it, those who offer help get frustrated with reiterating the same response again and again "because it's chat based" and those in need of help feel entitled to support. It's community support, remember, offered by volunteers.

[hollow glacier]

many people's third place disappeared overnight here^^

[chrome steppe]

That feels like a compelling statement… I wonder if you could expand?

[hollow glacier]

no

[prisma briar]

Yea, it all feels too clinical and compartmented, there's no sense of community in a bunch of forum posts asking for help.

Chat fosters community, this is set up more like a corporate ticketing system.

[fresh fox]

This channel is specifically for chatting

[sterile wasp]

Chatting about specific topics.

[mortal walrus]

Yeah, chat fundamentally isn't somewhere where you're intended to "search for answers", but instead talk to people. And discord forums aren't good for searching for answers anyways, since they're gated behind login and not indexed by search engines.

[prisma briar]

^

Literally makes answers harder to search

[grand vortex]

I do support for 2 mid sized servers (12k, 35k users). If I get frustrated with a user, that's on me and I step away since being a volunteer I am not forced to do support. If helpers have anger issues and lash out on users that should be addressed instead

[chrome steppe]

There’s an interesting tension within Home Assistant itself: it needs to serve an entire spectrum of users from “bought my first smart bulb “to “I can code a complete AI model in my sleep “

I think we’re seeing that same tension play out in thinking about what a community driven support model looks like

[fresh fox]

Whoa there. Who said anything about lashing out? Stop putting words in my mouth pls

[prisma briar]

This seems more like somebody being out of touch than a skill level divide.

[grand vortex]

I've seen not so welcoming behavior by helpers many time in this server, and have seen similar comments on reddit by others that feel the same. I am in doubt that restructuring will fix attitude problems, but I guess we'll see

[prisma briar]

I'm not majorly fond of some corporate person coming in from outside the community and immediately setting out to revamp it.

[lone dagger]

I am disappointed you assume I was from out of the community.

[chrome steppe]

I think even for those of us who have been online since the days when you had to put a telephone handset into an acoustic coupler it’s a good reminder that a lot of tone is lost in text only communication. I have a fair amount of empathy for the moderators and expert to answer the same questions over and over… I can tolerate a terse response. But again it makes me wonder if one of the “jobs. Todo quote of this server is helping welcome New and frustrated users.

Reading is hard and not for everyone

[lone dagger]

No need to say slurs when you disagree with someone. Please mind your wording. 🙂

[prisma briar]

idk what the point of acting like that guy was.

[chrome steppe]

So how does the ban option work with this new format?

[chrome steppe]

Ah! Question answered

[grand vortex]

false flag 🤣

[lone dagger]

Trolls be trolls. Comes with the territory.

[keen bridge]

Plus being a female on the internet makes you a double magnet for that rubbish 🙂

[grand vortex]

I'll never for the life of me understand why people choose to spend their free time being toxic to noobs. if you're constantly frustrated when doing this, just don't, nobody is forcing you

[mortal walrus]

gonna be honestly, when i was originally looking for "where's the chat space for people who use HA" i was initially looking for a matrix chat or maybe even irc; discord always seemed like an odd choice for an open-source project to use, at least to me :/

[prisma briar]

IRC was great

[keen bridge]

IRC and matrix are basically impenetrable to folks who don't already know how to use them though.

And it's better to "own" the space people are talking about your thing in, than merely to be a visitor.

[static schooner]

Although I think the stated 'gaming' focus that Discord has chosen is not ideal

[keen bridge]

None of the discord communities I'm in are gaming focused to be honest. They're all nerd ones

[grand vortex]

as Missy said there definitely is an argument to be made about "meeting people where they are", and discord is massive. However to me equally important is "use the right tool for the job". If there wasn't already a HA forum a better argument could be made, but as there is one it doesn't make sense to me to use the HA discord to have a worse forum experience than what can be had on the dedicated forum

[static schooner]

Who wants to join a guild???

[mortal walrus]

it is amusing that some of the discord apis apparently still use the "guild" terminology :)

[static schooner]

Thinking in terms of feature prioritization.

Don't bother me, I'm playing VSCode

[forest edge]

discord was originally designed to be geared toward gamers after all

[keen bridge]

Changing APIs is hard work. Especially if a bunch of your internal tools use them and for reasons hardcoded it all.

That's my assumption, but I've been a developer long enough to know how probable it was.

[fresh fox]

All of them do, IIRC

[mortal walrus]

well, at least discord's not slack :) i get enough of that at my job.

[prisma briar]

We used pidgin/xmpp at work before slack, that was fun

everyone had a folder of memes they converted to fit in like 8kb

[mortal walrus]

hmm, and yeah, the user role colors really are kinda hard to read in light mode :/

(one of the negative aspects of discord, imo, is all the memeing about light mode vs dark mode, when they're both perfectly reasonable choices and people might have accessibility reasons to choose one over the other)

guess i'll try out that "role colors next to names" option.

[orchid rose]

I was away for a few days and y'all scared me that off-topic had been removed

I see we have a different theme with the roles as well

[mortal walrus]

still lots of off-topic channels - but a bunch of the on-topic channels got closed in favour of support forums.

[keen bridge]

Replaced with, not closed in favour of. There was a lot of work that went into making sure all the channels had an appropriate replacement forum 🙂

[mortal walrus]

there are suitable replacement places for people requesting support, yes, but that's not the only thing some of the channels were used for.

[grand vortex]

can you comment on how unanimous this choice was internally? to get a frame of reference

[orchid rose]

Hmm, I haven't looked at much of how these forums are like yet but what do you mean is the main difference?

[lone dagger]

As I stated, there was 6 months of work that went into this and I used highly active community member's voices when designing things. Ask the mods how long I waffled over the #1284966664357810196 channel.

I am managing a community of hundreds of thousands (not just this server) and have to make decisions that will make some of those members uncomfortable. Those decisions are never made on whim.

[tame tartan]

Man, I picked the wrong time to join this apparently? 😆

[forest edge]

wonder how long this will go on lol

[fresh fox]

Would an internal revolution (with the rebels being the opposers if the forum-style channels) followed by a swift change if regime help? 😋 Why does it matter? It was a well thought-out, well documented change.

[keen bridge]

Welcome to the cool kids club

[tame tartan]

I understand now why there was very little in the thread channels to search for

[lone dagger]

lol, I did just make massive server changes. 😄

[lone dagger]

At least 2 weeks - I expect as long as a month, though.

[keen bridge]

Good news is, next week is #beta week!

[mortal walrus]

yeah, gonna be a steady flow of people who only log on occasionally getting surprised by the changes

[keen bridge]

So people will have other things to chat about at least

[forest edge]

maybe I should wait till then, all this additional activity in this channel is cramping my ability to crack on california and quad's choices in food

[lone dagger]

Time to go do final preps for the birthday stream! Hopefully we'll see you there, and if not join us in the live Q&A on the https://discord.com/channels/330944238910963714/1284965764759027883.

[keen bridge]

Have you seen #the-kitchen? 😉

[grand vortex]

the opinion of users can very often be dismissed by them not having the full picture. if everyone internally agreed then it is more likely that "we're all wrong". 🙂

[forest edge]

no

I avoid the kitchen channel intentionally

[chrome steppe]

(Water cooler is 100% going to turn into the default support chat)

Wait… Is the kitchen channel really not about cooking?

[keen bridge]

Not if all the active community members encourage people to post in the right support channels 😉

[mortal walrus]

kitchen channel is a general off-topic channel about food/drink stuff (not a place to discuss how to integrate HA with your kitchen)

[keen bridge]

And as a community member, we should all be trying to help everyone to the right place to get support 🙂

[chrome steppe]

Y’all! Being clever and coding the channel names as something cute during a massive restructuring may not have the outcome you were hoping for

[grand vortex]

yeah I'm not gonna lie I was quite confused when I first looked at the server lol

[chrome steppe]

I’m happy to try to support these changes (especially if there’s a commitment to iterating in evolving)… But this isn’t a great time to be cute or clever with word play

[grand vortex]

but this is a separate problem that can be easily fixed in the future so I didn't bother bringing it up

it also didn't help initially that the community category was on top

[forest edge]

the guidence of, "right click the server icon -> scroll down to 'Leave Server' and press the left mouse button" is still the prefered guidence to the right area right?

[orchid rose]

It took me like 5 seconds to find off-topic and it's probably one of the weirdest names here

[mortal walrus]

well, if they have a support question that's too complicated to handle in chat you can always give them a link to the discourse forums ;)

[chrome steppe]

Is home and garden for bug tracking for housekeeping

[orchid rose]

Read the topic perhaps

[chrome steppe]

In all seriousness, I’m genuinely curious what the user path is for someone who wants to help others? Do you scroll the forums until you see something you can help answer?

[static schooner]

For literal bugs on houseplants, I suppose

[cedar lodge]

this lack of a general channel sucks

[static schooner]

Noted

[grand vortex]

one way to go is to open threds that have 0 replies. this has the unfortunate downside that if a user posts multiple messages it looks like they're already being helped

[cedar lodge]

i totally enjoy hanging out in a place with BOTH support discussions and general chit-chat

[mortal walrus]

i guess that's the intended thing, but annoyingly you have to separately open and scroll through each one to see if the conversation's gone in a way that you can contribute to (since you often can't tell by the first post/topic)

[fathom sparrow]

That’s all we did in the past, that’s all I’m doing now…

[static schooner]

This is literally general chit chat

[cedar lodge]

and specifically come to discord/irc for chat discussions on stuff, not to put a forum post out there

[grand vortex]

if that worked the previous configuration wouldn't have the issue of people posting in #general-archived all the time

[fathom sparrow]

Instead of scrolling up, I now scroll down. That’s the only thing that changed.

Oh but it’s easier to see who got help.

[cedar lodge]

@static schooner but topic specifically says no support here

[orchid rose]

Sadly fixing people isn't really possible

[chrome steppe]

Noted. I’m not resistant to this version being better or worse. Again genuinely curious. In the past, I feel like my helpful contributions worthy result of serendipity (being here at the right time when someone ask something I could help with.).

[grand vortex]

this could be partially fixed if discord added number of active users in the topic view

[forest edge]

people prefering chat over forum type is not going to go away. there will still be the default wandering into the first chat style channel and asking the question or a point in the right direction

that will never stop

[cedar lodge]

I get what you're going for, but there will be a bunch of us who would really still like to have chat

and honestly, the shift will make me less involved in the community in general

[orchid rose]

The only problem I have with forums what I can see is that they look ugly, but that might just be because I use Discord in "compact mode"

[chrome steppe]

I blame discord entirely for that… It is the RGB PC Case of apps

[orchid rose]

Hey I love me RGB PC Case

[forest edge]

could be worse.. we could still be in skype

[orchid rose]

it's even controlled by HASS

[cedar lodge]

Anyone created a splinter discord where the new rules don't apply yet?

[chrome steppe]

Please post that in the appropriate thread

[cedar lodge]

lol!

[chrome steppe]

(Sorry I’m losing credibility when I go into Snark mode, right?)

[mortal walrus]

(if someone does do that, #1284960456880029707 is probably the place to post about it, heh)

[cedar lodge]

lol @mortal walrus

[grand vortex]

regardless of how one feels about the change, I do wonder why it wasn't trial'd on the ESPHome discord to iron out the issues that popped up

[fathom sparrow]

This was trialed for about 3 months in a separate server.

[forest edge]

you implying they are the bastard child?

[iron granite]

The ESPHome Discord is independent of this one

[chrome steppe]

Tbt before a splinter server I’d almost consider volunteering for a complete redesign of the support model for HA across the board. … wonder if I can make that a course project for my students 😂

[grand vortex]

public server?

[chrome steppe]

ESP Home is a nice hybrid between threads and chat tbt

[forest edge]

and I wasn't invited? no wonder there are so many issues!

[cedar lodge]

@grand vortex a server with only people who helped plan the new layout /sarcasm

[solar zealot]

They also invited unhelpful people who put the breaks on

[cedar lodge]

@chrome steppe i'd just go old-style IRC, you get 1 channel and thats it. all discussion happens there 😉

[chrome steppe]

Don’t tempt me with a good time!

[mortal walrus]

hey, many projects i interact with on irc have 2 or 3 channels (most often to have a separate dev channel)

[orchid rose]

People created all kinds of workarounds even on IRC

[chrome steppe]

IRC with a linked Usenet group. Now we’re talking

[grand vortex]

I see Missy is also a mod there, and both projects are backed by Nabu Casa, so I'm assuming a similar change is gonna take place there too

[potent arch]

Odd, since this section is called community and the one with forums is called support. Doesn't seem that hard

[pliant snow]

Gotta say I’m disappointed with Ecobee

[cedar lodge]

@potent arch but only if we want to be a community in the way they want us to be...

[pliant snow]

I’ve got 3 of their premium thermostats, and they apparently 1: don’t support grouping thermostats anymore, and 2: don’t support setting a hold to a comfort setting that isn’t “home, away, or sleep”

[iron granite]

Still different projects with different underlying conditions and requirements.
E,g. 128,138 HA Discord users vs. 30,923 ESPHome Discord users

[mortal walrus]

yeah, the specific thing that bugs me about the "Community" category is that it's almost all off-topic channels, rather than a space for chatting with HA enthusiasts about HA-related things.

[cedar lodge]

@mortal walrus yes, plus the hard stance against "support" happening in said community channels

[prisma briar]

Is this trying to 'business-friendly' the server in preparation of some move from nabu casa? IPO or selling or something?

[chrome steppe]

But I bet you can create that functionality with HA

[forest edge]

confoosed. how it is buisness friendly?

[mortal walrus]

I imagine a smart thermostat with its own internal logic and HA automations will end up fighting each-other a bit :(

[grand vortex]

I think it's a bad faith argument that nothing can be learned by trialing in ESPHome when it's 1/4 the size (not 1/100) and shares many users with common interests. I'm sure the ESPhome users are more technical, but that's it

[pliant snow]

Not really. One of the features you can set is to use specific sensors for different comfort modes

[cedar lodge]

@forest edge by being highly structured

[prisma briar]

looks nicer than a chatroom on a business slide

This just all reeks of corporate

[forest edge]

just looks more organized.. never had an ocd family member?

[mortal walrus]

tbh, most corporate discords i've been in are less organized than this (but admittedly also much smaller).

[chrome steppe]

I still contend there’s stuff to be learned from how ESPhome already does things

[cedar lodge]

@forest edge Yes, but i don't let them organize my stuff

[hollow glacier]

they already force users to create threads and enforce heavily

[forest edge]

well this isn't ours lol

[keen bridge]

Surprise, that's where the inspiration came from!

[chrome steppe]

I like how they do it 😂

[grand vortex]

oh I'm not arguing for the forum structure to be superior, just that testing it in a smaller community makes sense. As I said in the original message when I brought it up, even if the change was universally acclaimed Missy has mentioned some issues that need fixing which would have had a smaller impact had this been tested in ESPHome

[orchid rose]

It's definitely a more professional look

[cedar lodge]

@orchid rose which would be fine if we were employees, but we're the end-user community

[orchid rose]

Sure but I still haven't noticed that much difference. I'm not a huge fan of the Discord forum layout but it still works fine

[cedar lodge]

and generally, here to engage with each other and the occasional HASS employee

[prisma briar]

Every time I hear 'The community should help with...' I think 'Oh, we're labor in your eyes'

[forest edge]

it's just discombobulated because they forgot to add the Sonoma's Castle community channel. once that's in place all will look more normal

[cedar lodge]

If i wanted to open forum posts, i'd go to github or the actual forum

[tame tartan]

Unfortunately, they recently stopped approving dev account requests so the hurdle to integrate got higher. I think there's a way with a Google home integration but i don't have one of those

[orchid rose]

The github forum style is absolute cancer

[chrome steppe]

Ugh! That’s user hostile for sure

[forest edge]

least you people get to remain here, i have to head to the DMV which is far worse than a HA revamp

[cedar lodge]

@forest edge I dunno, if you go in with low expectations, you're never surprised

[mortal walrus]

I guess i've been kinda lucky, the only thermostat I've integrated with HA was quite basic but had local control, so I could do all the smart things to my satisfaction in HA :/

[cedar lodge]

Posted in the forums, anyone got any suggestions? https://discord.com/channels/330944238910963714/1285656627923517440

or is that too much support in this channel?

[prisma briar]

It's another example of why this layout is suboptimal

[mortal walrus]

(implemented a fun hack to have remote temperature sensors by offsetting the setpoint by the difference between the thermostat's own sensor and the remote sensor)

[grand vortex]

something I mentioned above, never make multiple posts in a forum post if you can help it because people are more likely to help threads with 0 replies

so best to edit your first message and delete the second

[cedar lodge]

i've rarely used the forum ui, and it is garbage to find where you are supposed to edit what

hey, maybe in a few months chatgpt will be good enough we won't have to ask each other questions 😉

[desert cave]

it will not

[mortal walrus]

often frustrating when people ask questions after having used chatgpt, you sometimes have to work them backwards from the mess they have to figure out what they were trying to do in the first place :(

[orchid rose]

I mean the new ChatGPT is pretty damn good from the few videos I watched

It's still not quite there but the potential is obvious

[mortal walrus]

videos are very good at cherry-picking specific situations where the result looks good ;)

(and even then, only if you don't pause and look too closely...)

[orchid rose]

Right but I didn't watch their ads, I'm not quite that dumb 🙂

[prisma briar]

Anthropic Claude is really good, too. I've got stuff like llama 3.1 70b and mixtral running at home that are also pretty solid, if you phrase the questions right.

[orchid rose]

Yeah it's nowhere near 100% yet and you need to guide it

[chrome steppe]

i find giving it much smaller tasks and chunks works best

[prisma briar]

I think a lot of the issue people have with AIs is they ask them how to do vague concepts with little context for it to actually build on

And the AIs don't ask questions, they just try to do things

[mortal walrus]

... and the ais aren't good at asking clarifying questions and understanding related context.

[desert cave]

it's also not giving you facts, it's giving you the words it thinks you want to hear. sometimes that lines up.. sometimes they're confidently wrong

[cedar lodge]

the goold old xyproblem.info

[orchid rose]

so are people

[prisma briar]

They're getting better about being wrong, they're way better than they were like a year ago

[orchid rose]

I would trust ChatGPT more than I would any single person on most issues right now

[keen bridge]

But they still don't discard old invalid info and read in the new data regularly enough

[prisma briar]

you can set them up to do things like web search for relevant info

[desert cave]

I don't want my searches to be answered by a person though. I want the data, and I want it to be accurate

[orchid rose]

Right it doesn't replace that for everything

[desert cave]

(web search with google is now AI driven and significantly less useful)

[mortal walrus]

i'm not sure how it pans out here, but in other places i find a surprising number of support requests end up being answered by someone going "oh, i've done that before, here's the relevant docs" or similar :/

[tidal bronze]

Do they issue licenses for you?

[mortal walrus]

then other times you get into weird things that aren't really written down anywhere, and you have to be lucky to find the right person who actually knows what's going on :(

[desert cave]

mmm tribal knowledge

[mortal walrus]

i've answered a few questions in ffmpeg's support channel where i ended up literally going to read the source code to check what the behaviour actually was :(

[desert cave]

ffmpeg is a good example of bad documentation. Just giving a list of what commands are available is not enough, lol

[prisma briar]

ffmpeg is cryptic but it's documentation is rather thorough

Random thing I recently learned, qemu and ffmpeg were done by the same guy

[desert cave]

neat!

[mortal walrus]

the documentation might be "thorough", but it's certainly not inviting :/ very hard to tell how things interact with each-other when they're all documented separately.

[chrome steppe]

now there's a good use of ChatGPT... "give me the ffmpeg command to do XYZ"

[mortal walrus]

heh, given the bad examples of ffmpeg commands i've seen on SO and similar places I wouldn't expect too much of that :)

[chrome steppe]

It’s worked for me 🤷‍♂️

[mortal walrus]

yeah, there's a few things that "work" but are non-obvious anti-patterns that should be avoided. Like telling ffmpeg to encode to a codec, but without setting a specific encoder implementation to use and relying on (sometimes questionable) default settings.

[dusky plank]

its amazong when it works though

i was recently too lazy to do some personal project and let chatgpt do it

it involved scraping lots of images and turning them into a live stream to youtube, not only that but also first fetch a token, then get the images with the token

it took several attempts from me redefining the requirements for it to make it work

[desert cave]

oh yeah, that is one thing you can do.. fetch tokens and licenses for paid software, lol

[dusky plank]

whats important here is to leave the current convo and make a new one with refined requirements, it holds on to invalid thoughts for too long

[desert cave]

https://tenor.com/view/have-you-ever-condidered-piracy-gif-10055735

[dusky plank]

ye that was not piracy

I'm just scraping all the highway cameras from my country and stream them to youtube

and it did it flawlessly at the end

[prisma briar]

AIs are game-changing for coding. I've been using https://marketplace.visualstudio.com/items?itemName=Continue.continue which lets AI rewrite code and will give me block-level diffs, and gives me a chat box on the side I can send code to

It's great for documentation, too. You can write out a list of what you want it to touch, give it the relevant code, and tell it to document it

[desert cave]

https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2024/01/code-written-with-ai-assistants-is-less-secure.html

[prisma briar]

Does need a proofread though, sometimes it says stupid crap.

[prisma briar]

the study that's citing is from november 2022, lol

Things have changed a little bit since

[tribal comet]

So… this new Discord setup… I dont get it? The wonderful Frontend channel with lots of good people to talk to is replaced by Dashboard forum where you have to make a a new topic for whatever you wish to say?
I thought the HA forum filled those needs. I don’t rven know if this is the right channel for my complaining haha

[desert cave]

I mean.. my day job is dealing with security issues at a cloud provider and something like 80% of submissions to our bug bounty program are someone stuck our code in GPT and flagged a non-existant issue, but we still needed to check it out just in case.. so all it's done is increase workloads

[prisma briar]

I had to learn what specific tasks it's good at for it to not increase my workload, too

Got sent hunting after non-existent stuff by AIs a couple times before I realized things like I need to specify specific libraries and not ask it what I should use.

[desert cave]

(this is tbh humans mis-using it, because corps are trying to push it on everything)

[prisma briar]

That's a capitalism issue

[desert cave]

agree

[forest edge]

Yes unlike your state where they just put a rubber stamp of a smile face on your hand and look at everyone behind you and wish them luck

[tidal bronze]

All for love

[prisma briar]

those are concerts

[forest edge]

I'm sure in California it is hard to tell the difference lol

[desert cave]

anyway, are there any more recent studies that invalidate this one? I'd love to be able to update our stance on this at $work but security work means verifying the patch works before using it :)

[arctic quarry]

made a thing again, couldn't find a messaging card so I made my own

[desert cave]

neat!

[arctic quarry]

just learned that my kid's smartwatch is supported, so

[prisma briar]

I don't have any, no. I don't inherently disagree with what that claims, I just think the age of that source makes it moot. AI code shouldn't be put into production without a person understanding every line of it, imo. Reading back and understanding can still be a lot faster than writing though so there's still benefit.

[mortal walrus]

even then, reading code you're often liable to gloss over calls to external libraries or other bits of code without looking into and understanding the details of what the call does :/ something i find hard when doing review of human-written code, too.

[forest edge]

DMVs are so boring

[iron granite]

New car?

[forest edge]

Applying for duplicate title for a trailer

[iron granite]

Sounds like lots of fun

[prisma briar]

What necessitates a duplicate title?

[desert cave]

yeaah.. we have style restrictions on using external libraries so they can be vetted but not everywhere does that

[forest edge]

Losing the original

[prisma briar]

Ah. I was thinking you were going to be having two people both trying to sell it or something and wanting the title on hand.

[forest edge]

Tech you can only apply for one if lost or damaged not for just having second copy. Anything other than lost requires what you do have being submitted

[prisma briar]

I had to spend a couple hours at the DMV registering my truck a couple weeks ago. My dad didn't sign on the right line so I had to get a 'statement of fact' from him stating it was fine and intentional and fax that back to the DMV. Had to sign up for a trial to a fax service from my phone while sitting in their lobby so I could send the signed form from my phone to their fax machine to get it processed.

My previous car drowned, my dad had 5 cars and is getting too old to drive so he gave me a 2010 F-150.

[atomic beacon]

I'm a bit behind on the Anniv party. It gave me an idea. I'm a homebrewer (beer), and there is a whole community of clubs that meet monthly to discuss making beer. I'd love to have a Smart Home/HA club.

[chrome steppe]

ok I got help and it's done... do I just add a check to the first post? unclear on what we do now

[iron granite]

It would be nice to add the "✅ Resolved" tag to the topic

[chrome steppe]

😬 isn't that the check reaction?

[iron granite]

Not a reaction, but a tag. Like the "Masonry" tag you chose to begin

[chrome steppe]

ah

we may want to make that more obvious - I suspect most threads will go un-marked

[tidal bronze]

In a tent?

[forest edge]

I said DMV, not your neighbor's 1 million a month rent tent

make sure you get those TOD's on your vehicle/trailer/whatever title's

holy hell the nightmare of dealing with one without is just stupid

[tidal bronze]

But a pedestal fan? What kinda DMV is this? Or is this a DMV museum?

[forest edge]

DMV's outside of Beverly Hills

I assume this is what yours looks like right? https://restlords.com/en/wp-content/uploads/TN210701_0110-HDR.jpg

[static schooner]

lol:

[forest edge]

whats up with that? shows for me

[red rock]

For fucks sake man

That barbecue song stays in your head

[lone dagger]

Valid. Do you think me doing links pointing to images would help here like I did with how to find descriptions?

[tidal bronze]

So you accusing GTS of posting shit?

[clear gate]

anyone running Legrand's LC7001 ? I finally got the source after asking for YEARS

[forest edge]

humidity went from 30% to 50% today and holy hell the diffrence it makes in "feeling the heat"

[chrome steppe]

I’m just worried that apathy will eat strategy every time

People prefer desire paths not complicated maps

[pliant snow]

Just found out I can expose web services on my home server through views in home assistant! I got my transmission web ui working as a tab in my server dashboard

[static schooner]

I've had issues with Discord not loading images on my phone lately and I don't know why. It loaded when I tapped on it, and sometimes they load when I scroll around

[carmine burrow]

You actually can set a custom comfort setting (iOS app supports it), however, it won’t respect the sensors assigned to it but rather average all sensors. Still will use the temperature profiles assigned to it.

Can also be done via the API if you’re lucky to have an existing developer account.

[pliant snow]

Alas I do not have an existing account

[lone dagger]

Unfortunately, apathy often wins. But I do want to make it easy for people.

For example, the developer category currently employs the ✅ reaction for solved threads because they don’t actually have any more tag slots available. I’m not against the idea, but the availability of the tag makes it easy to sort for people looking for things that are considered resolved. It could be an either or, but then you lose that filtering.

[forest edge]

@tidal bronzewanna come play with my new puppy? https://youtube.com/shorts/1BOIY25kR-Q?si=KD5wxvxf06b64ymG

[candid viper]

Whelp, that was an adventure. Trying to install HAOS on something and I couldn't see the BIOS screen because I had to disable some DVI Dongle mode.. which you can only do in the BIOS.

Then I find out that despite saying "boot from USB", the instructions don't regard USB as "boot media"..

So no booting HAOS from USB.

[tidal bronze]

Hmmm. Middle earth

[austere hearth]

Hey all. Had a series of 4 rapid power spikes and now I get this when opening. HA app. Any ideas on what to do? I already did a power off and on of HA yellow.

[distant junco]

Don't use an app to troubleshoot. Can you reach the observer in the browser?
Can you connect a keyboard and monitor to it? Btw this is not a support channel.

[forest edge]

would this full under #1284966203026182206 or #1284966353798697001 ? lol

[prisma briar]

It belongs in #general-archived

then they should point him to the right place

[forest edge]

it is the #yellow-archived they are talking about

[cursive canyon]

Hi water cooler friends

[static schooner]

https://tenor.com/view/meme-gif-21437085

[forest edge]

you looking forward to that are you?

[tidal bronze]

Yep 😆

[forest edge]

joeybtoonz.. think I found a new channel to watch lol

[vernal hornet]

https://www.youtube.com/live/JmVkJE3Ios0 wow guys it's happening

[forest edge]

https://youtube.com/shorts/aRgc2OcasEc?si=IxQ_Mg4W2GNqhUHo

[ocean oar]

Is it bad that my first reaction was "doesn't look that bad"?
Found this: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/news/The-worlds-scariest-airport-landings-videos/
Right next to it in the list... my home town. Same sorts of planes (737, A320, ATR72) landing, but we have 3/4 the length runway and just as much wind.

That video though looks like a perfectly boring go-around. When you can't see much except for sky or the far end of the runway out the side windows, that's when you start to worry.

[tidal bronze]

Check out some madeira spotting videos. Another one, Tenzing-Hillary Airport

[ocean oar]

I did. Looks pretty good

This is home, which has a similar theme: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0l1wihBihTs

[forest edge]

on our next installment of Big Plane, Little Runway

[calm crow]

I see whole discord channel has changed 😮

We could do with a filter on threads for protocol

[clever mortar]

There's one... but zigbee is a tag in #1284966617670881350

[calm crow]

Oh, so If I was looking for devices advice I'd post in there instead of hardware?

[clever mortar]

Under the new world order... apparently so

[calm crow]

praise the new world

I'll have to learn to distinguish the difference between hardware and tech

[clever mortar]

If there's not a tag you're likely in the wrong place

[calm crow]

Judging by threads people seem to use Hardware and Related tech to ask for suggestions

[clever mortar]

This is all new, some settling in is expected

[calm crow]

Yeah that's true to me feels like we could do with a suggestion/device forum then once you've got your device you can go to intergration or hardware for support

or related-tech 😄

[spice prism]

Hi there, I missed the Q&A earlier. Does anyone know if it was recorded?

[iron granite]

No, the Q&A was live only

[spice prism]

Ok, cheers. Did I miss any news?

[iron granite]

The new voice hardware is expected to be available at the end of this year.

[spice prism]

Oh nice!

[iron granite]

But no final details yet

[spice prism]

Cheers! Any details about the new default dashboard?

[iron granite]

Not that I remember

[spice prism]

Ok, thanks for the update!

[crisp oriole]

Any price indication?

[iron granite]

Not sure, if Paulus mentioned it yet

[crisp oriole]

Btw i hope it looks good. I had a poll on mastodon. And had many peeps that wanted to consider there vote after i posted a square block with loads of functionality.

[crisp oriole]

He said something that it wasnt that cheap. But that was some months ago. If i recollect right. I dont listen all the podcasts

[junior forge]

There is none communicated yet.

[chrome steppe]

bro out here trying to use HA for skiing 😂 https://hasspodcast.io/ha164/ (bro is me, I am bro)

[cyan violet]

Guys where do i report bugs that is not github?

[silent dove]

Want to see what issues are open (or were open and are now closed)?

• The core (backend) - for HA itself, and integrations
• The frontend (UI) - for cards and display issues
• The Supervisor
• HAOS
• The documentation

Don't forget to check for any alerts

If you think an upgrade broke something then:

1. Downgrade to the previous version to check if it works correctly there
2. If it does then change the logger settings for that integration to debug
3. Upgrade to the new version again
4. Look in the logs for errors
5. Open an issue, following the template provided and including the log information

[iron granite]

Bugs are tracked via GitHub

[lone dagger]

GOOOOOOOD MORNING CHAT (for me)

One of the pain points I have heard over the past couple days is that our hardware aficionados are missing their space to just talk about the cool shit they are creating - this home isn't the greatest spot for that and it was a misstep overall.

My current solution is to give you all a hardware space, currently thinking of calling it the-workshop (as seen here #1285154411114532935 message ). I'd love to see feedback on this today so I can make a space for y'all to keep on keeping on. 🙂

[inner lava]

I quite like the idea of everything being separate forums now, it's always been an issue of mine that things "go a bit under" when a lot of activity is happening.
I also read the #community-updates post and I understand that things have to be done the way they were done, tho still as a bit of feedback would say having some other channels besides this one would be nice for people just having a super quick question or if anyone is a bit confused on where to actually go.

All in all I do welcome this change tho and of course it's a huge change so things are probably still open at this point for change

[inner lava]

Tho thinking further such a channel would probably spiral out of control at some point quite fast again...

[clever mortar]

#find-support has a thread for the lost and confused

[inner lava]

I was mainly confused by the "sudden silence" that the introduction of forums brought in lol, not many threads in at least #1284980040940912641 despite that channel receiving a ton of messages all the time
I guess everyone's second-guessing their own question before wanting to present anything

[clever mortar]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure this has slowed down a lot of posting, for now anyway

[chrome steppe]

In #basement-not-bombshelter or #shower-and-shave

Obviously

[clever mortar]

The only place is Github

Having many places wouldn't work, how could you track it all

[chrome steppe]

Your response is accurate. But mine is funny. So…. I’ll see myself out

[inner lava]

Might be a stupid "idea" but due to the #1285982382360494101 thread I made though of something...
Since local AI is making its way into HA, wouldn't it potentially be possible to "train" it on a device, learning its usual (as example) power usage behavior and sending notifications based on that?

Not quite sure how exactly that could work... just a random thought that crossed my mind when I made this thread

[keen bridge]

What's the advantage over looking at a few cycles and just figuring it out? I did that, and even when I replaced my washing machine I didn't need to change the data points.

[inner lava]

Could make things a bit easier

As example "device had peak usage at X time since turned on" or "device had no to low power usage during these times" etc., lots of potential automated data analytics to use without having to manually do automations for everything.
Could also come in handy when, say, analytics ala "device has been turned on x amount of times today" with no additional automations needed to figure this out
Tho might be too much for low powered devices like raspberries to constantly try and analyze everything

Course everything could be done by hand, but why do stuff manually when...

https://tenor.com/view/spongebob-technology-patrick-hung-gif-5567497

[lone dagger]

There was something that some high school kiddo made that did that kind of stuff.

It's technically possible now, but it still requires a lot of hand holding. I think if we had access to SLMs that were trained on much smaller data and fed info from your home's data, that would improve the ability to do that like 10x.

But you run into the problem that the language models are just too power intensive.

[forest edge]

reading over this channel the last day makes me picture one room being swapped out with furniture between morning and evening

[fathom sparrow]

and 4 people loudly yelling about it in the corner

[forest edge]

https://tenor.com/view/family-guy-cartermiroquai-moving-furniture-carter-gif-24925834

[forest edge]

@tidal bronze Congrats on reaching #1!! https://youtu.be/jW-8STvB2Xk?si=YxqTLlBosTfcgkQJ

[crisp oriole]

Cant trump say something about eating rats.

[lone dagger]

Seattle doesn't even make the top 15. 😌

[tender prism]

Last summer a restraunt about 4 blocks away (mostly houses between here and there) was shutdown and in the paper for rats in their dumpster. They got rid of them, but guess where they went. I had never seen a rat at my house in over 30 years, now I can't put garbage in by garbage can without having rats fly out when I move it thru the holes they ate in the bottom and I heard one in the house last night behind the stove.

[forest edge]

sounds like you need more owls

I haven't seen a rat outside of a pet store since the last time i was in NY just before the towers were hit

[static schooner]

https://tenor.com/view/rat-pizza-gif-9894934999600829130

[tender prism]

City of 70k but I hear owls at night. Had one dive bomb me 10 yes ago in the dark in the back yard, That was a rush. I think it was an owl, it was too big to be a bat.

[tender prism]

I see pineapple on that sliceI think...

[static schooner]

Hard to imagine that in New York

[forest edge]

pretty sure they would have beaten you up in the street for eating a pizza with pineapple on it

[static schooner]

Just ordering would be enough

[tender prism]

We know someone in the City that could eat that 24-7...

[static schooner]

GTFO surfer dude

[tender prism]

I don't think she'll see it here to react unless prompted.

[forest edge]

if someone is eating pineapple pizza in NY they are doing so at home under a blanket

just weird. https://youtube.com/shorts/TyxSt-Bss3o?si=ez-cUc-L4lISiMB1

[hollow moat]

Man, migrating entirely to threads for topical conversion is just not the play IMO. I haven't seen it work out smoothly in any community discord that has implemented it

[tender prism]

Well there are few options and what what there was not working.

It was a dozen people telling newbees to go elsewhere, and that was just shit.

https://tenor.com/view/get-off-my-lawn-gif-21962679

[clever mortar]

And lots of overlapping convos with people getting overlooked

[hollow moat]

They will just get overlooked in threads now even more tbh based off my previous experience

[tender prism]

I would go to the last seen ever morning to pick up on lost people, but they usually were nowhere to be seen again, and m answer post was dropped in the middle of someone elses talk.

[iron granite]

https://tenor.com/view/yoda-star-wars-gif-4723491180103301225

[hollow moat]

I just hate that it's no longer a chat, its a forum

discord excels at being a chat and they are trying to re-invent forums and it's not working IMO

[tender prism]

Well I picked 6 categories to watch and am answering what I can. Not all questions have an answer. available but it's a couple of screens now with a reply count, so you can tell what has response and what doesn't. and there is a done tag and a way to move them to older, so there is hope. It's still all new, though.

[prisma briar]

Kinda crazy how many people have shared that sentiment and they've shown zero ability to even consider that specific bit of feedback.

[tender prism]

You seem to be chatting. What are you missing? (topicwise)

There is the community category, and Missy is taking feedback on what is missing. when it getsto specific things that should have been threaded the old way anyway, start a post and pull people in from the community category if you want to.

[tidal bronze]

Finally we beat NY. Good news!

[prisma briar]

Yea, instead of places to chat about HA now there's places to chat about not HA.

[hollow moat]

It just stifles organic conversations IMO

[prisma briar]

And a bunch of crap in the community channels constantly derailing them

[lone dagger]

Plenty of people have talked HA in here, in #machine-learning, in #home-and-garden, and in #memes. Your complaints have been heard, however others seem to be falling into the flow quite well.

[prisma briar]

By what metric

This channel has been a non-stop flood of people complaining and asking where to post

[tender prism]

#1285154411114532935 message is on the way and if you have more ideas, put them in that thread for Missy to see...

[prisma briar]

Also the expanded community channels aren't really the problem

[tender prism]

(I think they are intended to be a Replacement on the side instead of the center. Strawman ideas, suggestions, but the forums are helping people ok so far, just need to work on the technical shit-posting part of discord we seem to be missing.)

[sterile ferry]

I read about these yesterday. the requirements dictated the design, the back had to be high enough for workers to stand, unlike current ones, and the front windshield had to be bit to contend with all the various size workers.. the old trucks also only get 9mpg 😬

[prisma briar]

It's clear the complaints haven't actually been heard or understood when the response isn't even relevant to the complaints.

[tender prism]

(Edited above...)

Keep in mind I am a helper but not the designer or decider here either. Just trying to help identify gaps.

[fathom sparrow]

as a fly on the wall, I'm getting on just fine with all these chat channels, i'm not sure why there's a stigma about talking about HA in these channels... It's just not for support.

[prisma briar]

Because we used to have a place to talk that wasn't a support channel.

[fathom sparrow]

when I'm at the water cooler at work, we still talk about work 🤷‍♂️

[fathom sparrow]

you now have 10

[prisma briar]

Yea but if somebody comes up to you with something that should be a ticket you get annoyed

[static schooner]

here you are chatting in a non-support channel?

[lone dagger]

No. You had a space designed for people to hop in and ask quick questions which interrupted flow of conversation for the general chatter.

[fathom sparrow]

like, the memes channel is perfect for shitposting

[tender prism]

Not annoyed, just suggest there is a better spot if it gets too close to support kinda thing.

[lone dagger]

Additionally, I did a call out for things I am adjusting this morning.

[prisma briar]

There was definitely an #off-topic where people didn't generally come to ask questions, and you seem to be missing the point of Discord, it's for quick questions and general chatter, not long drawn out support threads.

There are forums for that

[lone dagger]

Excuse me but I have been doing this professionally for a decade and if you are refusing to respect that then I don't know what to say.

[fathom sparrow]

I still don't see the issue here, there are 10 off topic channels where you can talk

[tender prism]

Do you want the name changed to off-topic, because this is that channel. Name is meaningless

[prisma briar]

I don't particularly care what your experience is, lol. I can see what's been done and evaluate that just fine.

[fathom sparrow]

Maybe this isn't the place for you then. Things change over time.

[static schooner]

there's nothing stopping anyone from posting a quick question and getting a quick answer

seems like just a disagreement of form over function rather than losing any functionality

[hollow moat]

I think the sentiment he is trying to convey is that before we had a bunch of water coolers for specific topics. If I felt like going to the add-ons watercooler, I could just walk over to it and chat with anybody else that felt the same way. Now you go to that water cooler and it's just a mall directory sign telling me to go to an individual room.

[lone dagger]

This was the off-topic channel, so that channel didn't go anywhere, it was just a name change.

[hollow moat]

sometimes I just want to participate in a general chat about add-ons, and by segmenting that into a forum there really isn't any way to do that

[dusky plank]

🍿

[prisma briar]

This is no longer an off-topic channel. You were literally redirecting users here to ask questions like where to post.

[lone dagger]

And I understand that sentiment. The fact of the matter is that those channels were intended to be support, not a general chatter space.

[lone dagger]

No, there is an entire thread for that here. https://discord.com/channels/330944238910963714/1284976732428046461

[versed dragon]

Hi all, not really related to Home Assistant. I use a Nvidia Shield (2019 edition). I use it's game controller to navigate in youtube but suddenly it starts to skip a video and jumps to the second video both horizontal and vertical.

Anyone who sees the same behaviour ?

[hollow moat]

Then maybe a pinned thread in each topic that is just for general chat is a common middle ground? It allows support to be support and gives general topic-based chat a place to go

[atomic ferry]

Hii (:

[red rock]

Oh god he's back

[atomic ferry]

Hii Joost 😂 ❤️

[forest edge]

too bad discord dosen't allow that lol

[prisma briar]

Or just make them normal text channels again and quit trying to force this janky layout people clearly don't like.

[tidal bronze]

Use a few but not game controllers. Never seen this behavior

[fathom sparrow]

It's not just for you 😉

the helpers want organization, so there's no cross talk on a conversation

the old layout, every day I had to say "I'm not talking to you"

[atomic ferry]

I'm trying to surprise my girlfriend with some new lighting, but I can't get it to work

[prisma briar]

This was asked by somebody else a couple days ago and ignored, how many people inside HA actually approve of this change and think it's a good idea?

[red rock]

Where did you find a girlfriend this time?

[fathom sparrow]

we all did

[atomic ferry]

in court 😂 ❤️

[static schooner]

Joost, you can't have her

[prisma briar]

I've definitely noticed it's not unanimous among the HA staff.

[fathom sparrow]

really? who?

[red rock]

How

Oh and

Is it a horse girl

[atomic ferry]

You know how romantic I am? That works well with lawyers 🙂

[atomic ferry]

No:)

[red rock]

As romantic as a brick

[red rock]

Wow

[red rock]

Bricks can be romantic, but just with the right people who like them ^^

[prisma briar]

I don't feel the need to name names and drag people into it, but there have been multiple mods that have made comments about it so far.

[keen bridge]

Hello, I'm a cat girl. You're supposed to know the mod team! 🤣🤣

[fathom sparrow]

Well, I have a feeling you're mixing up staff with non staff

which is why I asked

[atomic ferry]

You know what that white "bib" of a lawyer is called, right? 😉

[prisma briar]

Staff as in 'the people managing and running the Discord', not 'people who are paid'.

[red rock]

The what

[hollow moat]

I mean to be fair the community updates post has more thumb downs than thumbs up, but idk how much weight you can really put on that seeing as it's like 20 responses for 128k members

[fathom sparrow]

the people who run discord are the people who get paid 😉 Mods just moderate

[atomic ferry]

But if anyone has time, could someone help me with this? My girlfriend is coming home soon:)

https://discord.com/channels/330944238910963714/1286027408306339993

[forest edge]

guess noone else liked my ideal layout lol

[prisma briar]

moderation is a form of management, imo.

There's also been multiple 'crows' confused and wondering why this was done, too.

[hollow moat]

I just think the forum style layout is too rigid of a framework for an app that is essentially an evolution of IRC chats. Just my opinion, but hopefully some kind of middle ground can be achieved where both "chatters" and support can be balanced without clogging a channel

[iron granite]

Brick layers?

[forest edge]

why they called crows again?

[forest edge]

https://tenor.com/view/brandon-lee-gif-7682518358328506732

[hollow moat]

Crows are the intelligent government survellience drones birds that can be helpful for tasks

[fathom sparrow]

mods and admins were involved with the change, everyone was invited to the test server and were asked multiple times to participate. If any of these people are voicing their opinion now, they literally missed 6 months of us in the staging server

and that was missy harping on everyone to provide feedback for literal months

[prisma briar]

Well there's been multiple instances of yellow and green names sharing opinions on it over the last couple days.

[fathom sparrow]

Sorry that this isn't your ideal space anymore

[forest edge]

i wasn't invited.. that was the biggest issue

[static schooner]

you mostly hang out here, and here hasn't changed

[fathom sparrow]

I see 10x complaining about the server changes vs the 1 or 2 people who somehow land here asking what channel to go to

and it's from the same 5 people

[forest edge]

better not count me in that

[fathom sparrow]

No, you're just here for the memes

[prisma briar]

That's just dismissive, there's been a new person every few hours complaining about it, and more at the start.

[hollow moat]

I just joined the other day and noticed it this morning when I went to ask a question haha

Personally the forum style layout is just not my jam for regular conversations