haha
#general
short yarrow
zealous wedge
iirc DataSource is a factory for connections
short yarrow
With HikariCP you can set DataSource properties, which made me think it's just for extra configurability
zealous wedge
it's I think a different way of providing configurability -- since you can also add URL parameters to set some of the same things
but the hikari folks seem to recommend using data source class names
short yarrow
Oh didn't know you can add url parameters. I thought you just specify the driver, host, port and that's it
vagrant rock
does anyone know what's up with bStats?
tired heath
because url parameter look shady
vagrant rock
looks like their data has been down for a few hours
cunning raft
not that often
solid pulsar
untold copper
untold copper
cosmic raft
the things I do to make paper work... https://github.com/KyoriPowered/adventure/commit/ecf444e074908f46129983eb9e6fd646202749e8
waxen panther
eeeeeee
untold copper
slim nymph
why does every financial institution show signs they dont know wtf they are doing for authentication
upper flicker
spiral robin
; drop table clients;
spiral robin
cosmic raft
I mean
At least they allow those ones
My old bank didn't allow any, and max of 12 chars
warm anchor
no repeating characters
no neighboring alphabet
what else?
lol
My bank has all those requirement yet they still send verification via SIMS
true canyon
In 2012 (probably later) my bank only allowed alphanumeric and I think like four special chars
also? The length requirement was six chars. Minimum, you ask? No. Maximum.
warm anchor
I mean for all things they can strengthen the security they dont do but making those password was such an inconveniences
unkempt drift
Max was 6 chars? You can like go though all possible combinations in less than a second.
correcthorsebatterystaple (that format is probably what I use most)
Or just random if Iโm using a password manager
warm anchor
just looks like most bank are stuck in last decade with IT stuff
true canyon
Thankfully their login processing took a very long time. So you're looking at 20 seconds per guess! ๐
void void
How does zalgo text generation work?
Is it some sort concatenation manipulation
And do both texts posses the same character count?
waxen panther
text just vibes
warm anchor
how to spot 12 year old 101
On discord basically if their name is like that
warm anchor
How does zalgo text generation work?
support your local Wikipedia writers https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combining_character
void void
So what would a combined character be called? A combined character?
Like would you be able to use them for passwords and emails?
and or domains*
warm anchor
likely not. 
cunning raft
domains are just letters, numbers, and hyphens
email address usernames (thing before the @) are limited to letters numbers and a few special chars
there are also restrictions on the sequence of which you use the chars but thats besides the point
slim nymph
oh and it had a cap at 20 chars
i had to turn off special char gen in keepass and just manually add them, couldnt get it to gen a valid pw
merry talon
tbh i keep symbols turned off
because there's just SO MANY sites that won't allow them
cunning raft
i mean it's best to just turn them off with ones that don't support them
that way you get the benefits of them with sites that do support them
waxen panther
thank you jroy, very wise
merry talon
but then i have to actually open it
spiral robin
jroy - very wise
merry talon
instead of generating a password directly in the field
waxen panther
big time
spiral robin
ยฏ\_(ใ)_/ยฏ
cunning raft
waxen panther
yeah ik
I cant change capitalisation without paying to change my name twice apparently
untold copper
is there any way to modify vanilla advancements?
zealous wedge
oooh
waxen panther
๐ฅบ 
๐ฅบ
cosmic raft
excited?
waxen panther
more than i can say in words
untold copper
whats this kashike?
warm anchor
dull linden
i would like to thank the paper devs and gods for making paper a thing xd
waxen panther
wholesome ?
waxen panther
exactly what it sounds like
adventure is a text (and other word string based stuff etc) library made by kash, zml and the other kyori people
a few platforms like velocity and sponge already use it as their native component management thing, and now paper will too
potent fossil
it's a UI library Kreygasm
waxen panther
potent fossil
can you not show me such a disgusting logo ever again please
waxen panther
it's an emote here 
zealous wedge
why have than when you could have 
potent fossil
brb going to puke
potent fossil
why have than when you could have <:superiordistro:698986265256788090>
yes
zealous wedge
actually i'm tempted to try installing gentoo sometime
potent fossil
have fun compiling for literally days
i kinda want to as well tho
i just got chess advice from an IM
potent fossil
void
waxen panther
am on arch currently ๐
potent fossil
systemd masterrace
potent fossil
thats the only reason to use void
waxen panther
ur wrong
potent fossil
anti systemd
potent fossil
i will find you and kill you
waxen panther
yes okay x
potent fossil
i will boil you and top you with cheese before eating your now softened limbs
waxen panther
now that sounds like a date
potent fossil
cosmic raft
adventure, bluely!
waxen panther
biggest thing in paper by far huge ez clap
untold copper
nyc
waxen panther
control was fun
slim nymph
After I just bought the dang thing
limpid comet
is the goal to some day switch over all instances of the bungee component bullshit and move everything over to adventure completely?
limpid comet
wtf
waxen panther
cosmic raft
we're not adding anymore bungee stuff at all, for one
waxen panther
slim nymph
We wouldn't strip bungee before a hard fork, and that's still a long way off
limpid comet
yeah makes sense
potent fossil
hard fork masterrace
slim nymph
Can't wait for lunch tomorrow gonna be tasty
waxen panther
i got a can of beans with my name on it
waxen panther
looks v nice
void void
which kind of SSD am i supposed to look for good MC performance?
zealous wedge
one with enough space to fit your world?
minor badge
@zealous wedge awa
zealous wedge
good morning proxi!!
worn ember
regular ssd will do tbh
viral hornet
proxi 
twin lagoon
@viral hornet ๐ฅบ
viral hornet
Michael ๐ฅบ ๐
twin lagoon
e2288g ๐ฅบ
void void
I like paper except for its package name: Paper Destroys Tokyo
lean kiln
bruh how do you need to have a bad font for performance
viral hornet
Probably don't, tbh. I over isolating little things I just yeeted it all off
how how are my icons though ๐ฅบ
viral hornet
twin lagoon
head into your quality settings and turn it up
twin lagoon
no fuck you
twin lagoon
head into your quality settings and turn it up
viral hornet
no
twin lagoon
yes
viral hornet
ok
untold copper
no'nt
twin lagoon
if you don't then @quasi valley and I will no longer love you
viral hornet
๐
untold copper
GG XD
viral hornet
oh no
my discord font is still cunted though
maybe it's my GPU settings which I also nuked ๐
untold copper
woven otter
/cc <@168553779745128448> <@271510274475819008> <@!176340309574156289>
ty kash โค๏ธ
vernal moth
Abenteuer!
twin lagoon
๐ฅบ
worn ember
hmm so i'm stuck in an editor, but i have no clue what editor it is so idk what shortcuts to look up
vernal moth
Vim
lean kiln
bruh its a joke mini
worn ember
how to exit pl0x
lean kiln
he got u
worn ember
vernal moth
Esc + : + q!
worn ember
what the fok
lean kiln
lol u were serious
yes
how to exit vim is a meme thats why I thought you were joking lol
lean kiln
q*
vernal moth
! For the fuck you
vernal moth
Use named volumes pls
worn ember
well
vernal moth
My first java class at uni was so fun, we had to use git to submit our exercises, and half the class was stuck in vim ๐
worn ember
lmfao
void void
named volumes aren't really good idea in all situations, for example when storing configuration files which you should change more than never
:p
worn ember
i dont wanna touch any of the volumes anymore since they already have a bunch of data
so i dont wanna lose it
cuz theres hours of work on there
void void
you can migrate your volumes easily
void void
tar -C current/mount/point -cf - . | tar -C "$(docker volume inspect your-volume-name --format '{{.Mountpoint}}')" -xf -
void void
can i back them up too or something?
yes, using tar for example
well migrating to docker volumes might be bit more cumbersome when docker-compose is used
worn ember
yeah im using dockercompose
void void
but shouldn't be more cumbersome than adding volumes section, running docker-compose up -d once to create them
not sure if docker-compose bitched about unused volumes or not
vernal moth
That's why I used named volumes ๐
worn ember
this is gonna be fun
potent fossil
It hates you too
untold copper
twin lagoon
Ok.
ancient bolt
This is nuts https://youtu.be/_sTw7GGoJ6g
twin lagoon
minor badge
Disconnected makes it sound to me like your server is dropping the connection
not firewall
had it been firewall, it'd show an error for not being able to reach the host
thats only for icmp
i.e. port twenty...five? i think?
twin lagoon
i still don't understand people dropping icmp
yes but why would you want to prevent that
i don't disable it ever
mental meadow
I hate when I can't ping something to check if its working
twin lagoon
that
potent fossil
there's no real reason to, it's some old tinfoil hat security through obscurity thing
"o noes they found my origin ip....if i block ICMP maybe they will be fooled..."
mental meadow
uwu
mental meadow
https://owo.whats-th.is/8iojjv5.png
noo
potent fossil
very sad
woven otter
well no more chess
potent fossil
what the fuck
you can play chess with no membership, you just can't use the computer to analyze your game
and some other stuff
woven otter
no more analysis for u
potent fossil
like it'll tell you which moves were total fucking idiotic stupid moves and which ones were good
it's listening on 25566 
twin lagoon
because you configured it to
potent fossil
dont ask me ask your config file
twin lagoon
either query port or server-port
untold copper
is this normal like, from 40mbps to this XD
UHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
something is so wrong ๐
potent fossil
it's called inspect element
twin lagoon
@minor badge ๐
dapper nacelle
hi
chrome quest
Help!
So... I switched firewalls up, but didn't enable port 22 in it. I now can't access the computer through it. Is there a way to solve this without factory resetting?
twin lagoon
get physical access or get remote KVM
twin lagoon
remote keyboardvideomouse
dapper nacelle
potent fossil
recovery mode from host basically
dapper nacelle
why is it spiget and not spigot
twin lagoon
third-party spigot api service
potent fossil
typically they call remote KVM "rescue mode" because noobs dont know what remote KVM means
chrome quest
Okay.
twin lagoon
never seen remote KVM being called rescue mode
potent fossil
hetzner does that i believe lol
twin lagoon
that's usually just some network boot system
potent fossil
if i remember correctly
twin lagoon
holy shit those headphones
minor badge
@twin lagoon ๐ฅบ
untold copper
Re 2 images y
twin lagoon
proxi 
mossy vessel
Michele ๐
minor badge
twin lagoon
nmf uwu
potent fossil
ok nvm you're right, i misread hetzner's page
twin lagoon
when am i not right
twin lagoon
smH
twin lagoon
the word kewl is not kewl
twin lagoon
reeeeeeee
twin lagoon
fortni- 
mossy vessel
fortcrap
potent fossil
Alright I know this is cheesy as hell but I love it lol https://owo.whats-th.is/8Hyd5qe.png
untold copper
kinda sad
potent fossil
Still enjoying this from yesterday
chrome quest
So I got into it with recuse mode, but ufw isn't a command in that mode.
So I don't know how I could change the firewall or even disable it in this case.
twin lagoon
you have to chroot into your server's root partition
twin lagoon
proxi ๐
minor badge
๐
potent fossil
inb4 what's chroot
minor badge
chroot into my butt michale .
twin lagoon
o
potent fossil
wow no invite for me proxi????
minor badge
u deserve better 
chrome quest
Thanks.
potent fossil
potent fossil
:O
untold copper
o.O
minor badge
man's world is my new bop ๐
chrome quest
So I did ufw status and it now says it's disabled.
Is that it? Can I now just restart the server out of recuse mode and the firewall will stay inactive?
limber knotBOT
ha, another day, one prediction I did that was right
some team developed an app, they call my customer registration and login flows/UIs, but their contractor claimed embedding the registration inside a webview in the app would be a security risk, so I had to add a hack that the register button on the login page opens in a new browser, not in the web view. I said back then "you can do it that way, but
then it will suck". Today apple rejected an app update, because the registration is not part of the app ๐
this might be the first good thing apple ever done for me ๐น๏ธ
๐
chrome quest
Welp. I restarted it without doing that.
potent fossil
we'll find out very shortly
potent fossil
pretty common
unplug its power for 20 seconds and plug it back in
im not kidding
untold copper
okay...
untold copper
it didn't work :c
potent fossil
well F throw it in the trash
twin lagoon
awa @minor badge
minor badge
@twin lagoon awa
untold copper
yes lol
minor badge
please vore the tax agency mr michelle
twin lagoon
vore 
potent fossil
awa
minor badge
awa
twin lagoon
awa
mental meadow
awa
minor badge
now If Only They Wanted My Moneyโข
minor badge
potent fossil
these are fun little thingies https://adventofcode.com/2020
not hard at all, at least not so far
telling a fun story too
minor badge
it gets hard, fast
i usually drop off by day 10
thats abt when it goes over my head
potent fossil
we'll see
what was the one you were doing? seemed pretty difficult difficult lemon difficult
potent fossil
of last year?
minor badge
day 12 was universe simulation
vernal moth
Aoc is also a good way to learn new programming languages
minor badge
yes
minor badge
i used aoc to learn rust
potent fossil
well so far it's pretty funzies
potent fossil
why was it 120 GIGABYTES
minor badge
java
potent fossil
makes sense i terminate my line of questioning
minor badge
really though
it couldve been muuuch lower
but JDA was and is trash
so it cached everything
of which we needed almost nothing
potent fossil
cosmic raft
guess what simple
potent fossil
yes my dear cute kashike?
cosmic raft
adventure test plugin for paper
next frost
Abenteuer
potent fossil
oh it's german
cosmic raft
yea
lean kiln
meta.displayName(Component.text("A super comfy bed.", TextColor.color(0xaa00aa), TextDecoration.BOLD));
meta.lore(Collections.singletonList(
Component.text("It looks very comfy!", NamedTextColor.AQUA)
));
Mfw manual rainbow effect
lean kiln
Ok, this is epic
vernal moth
Other than that it looks great :p
cosmic raft
adventure api implemented, plus:
- player display names (not used for chat yet)
- entity/blockentity custom names
- item display names
- item lore
vernal moth
You know about my issue where i listed all components, right?
cosmic raft
nope
vernal moth
If you are done with initial impl, I can help out to do the rest
vernal moth
That should be cover everything vanilla accepts components
cosmic raft
I'm gonna kidnap your issue into a new one, mini
cosmic raft
@vernal moth https://github.com/PaperMC/Paper/issues/4830
didn't add everything yours has, mainly since I typed it manually
cosmic raft
We will be, yes, just tracking by method names rather than "stuff"
so that we know exactly what needs to be done still
limber knotBOT
ah ok
limber knotBOT
I wonder if those patches should be moved up in case other patches depend on them?
currently patches use bungee stuff left and right
cosmic raft
I mean not right now, easier to work on them while they are at the end :P
limber knotBOT
yeah, just generally
cosmic raft
yea, would be good to move them to the very start
cosmic raft
o.O
potent fossil
That doesn't change the validity of his statement mini ๐
potent fossil
Fuck no it's six years old
vernal moth
Kash please, I just went thru all my notifications ๐
cosmic raft
untold copper
go study
full gorge
especially online :(
worn ember
you occasionally learn something useful
untold copper
you mean once in 12 years?
violet grotto
Are you Americans
untold copper
no ๐
worn ember
i learned tonnes of stuff in school, most of it pretty useless
untold copper
worn ember
in college most is useful tho
austere ivy
hhaaa imagine having been to college yet. oooold
worn ember
ok kiddo
vernal moth
Even in uni most was useless
worn ember
what did you study?
i mean i have a bunch of useless classes but most are quite useful
woven otter
what's useful is kinda subjective isn't it
worn ember
ducks dont have opinions
woven otter
Shut up ded
waxen panther
sus
worn ember
dw ur a dum veggie too
austere ivy
logback or log4j2?
void void
self4j (????????
austere ivy
I'm at that "decide later" point right now
topaz mortar
Logging facade
austere ivy
does it? hm
iron zephyr
Hot take and curiosity: what do you think is the chance that Mojang basically fades out Java, and focuses all in on bedrock in the future? I feel like bedrock is their major revenue stream, and they have the most control over it. The thought was sparked again because the move to Microsoft accounts seems to be heading in a more unified platform direction.
slim nymph
at this time ? 0%
void void
They are not such dumb that abandon most selling game
slim nymph
Java covers elements of success for the game as well as covers environments they cant support on bedrock
void void
They want to monetize Minecraft tho
cosmic raft
Java is also a significant revenue stream - you need to take modded into count, as lots of people see people on streams playing and want to play the same thing
slim nymph
they want MC everywhere
cosmic raft
Also worth noting: they hired a bunch of people for the Java Edition team this year
iron zephyr
Fair, good point. I feel they probably lose a lot of money on Java servers and pirated clients - bedrock gives them more control over both.
Oh really? Didnโt know that, thatโs cool
void void
I hate Microsoft
I wanted Minecraft to be opensource
slim nymph
lose money on java servers? how you figure?
iron zephyr
I mean, the revenue for in game purchases, ranks, etc. (I donโt remember whatโs legal anymore after the bukkit disaster ๐) largely goes to the server owners. They only make money off the initial game purchase
slim nymph
thats not money "lost"
iron zephyr
If they could find a way to unify multiplayer under Realms, or only allow official partner servers, they could introduce a new revenue stream
slim nymph
its money that had no intent to go to them
void void
it's more like donation rather than revenue
slim nymph
nah its not a donation, its 99% of the time revenue @void void
you may be confusing it with lost revenue potential
iron zephyr
Yeah, but they would LOVE that money to have an intent to go to them ๐
slim nymph
in that if MS did something to get a cut of the income
iron zephyr
Mhm, good point
I guess it is a conflict of the free publicity of popular servers, and the money they could be making if they controlled multiplayer ๐
Iโm curious to see how it all plays out.
woven otter
If they could find a way to unify multiplayer under Realms, or only allow offici...
I think forbidding unofficial servers would be bad for the game even then people would still run servers
iron zephyr
Fair. I get the sense (from the middle schoolers I work with) that the next generation of MC players largely play on Bedrock (iPad or XBox) and so their multiplayer experience is mostly Hypixel or Shotbow or something. But I donโt have any numbers
quasi valley
you have quite a weird sense then 
twin lagoon
young people will probably be more likely to play bedrock
since it has cross platform etc
but if they really like MC they'd probably get the java version in the end since it has modding etc
void void
pvp crossplay is a nightmare lol
it's gonna kill both java and bedrock players
quasi valley
Bedrock has had a lof more players than Java for a long time, but you're still very much undercutting the amount of people playing Java
but that's kinda obvious if you look at what platforms and people the versions are made for
iron zephyr
but if they really like MC they'd probably get the java version in the end since...
Thatโs true. Generally, the way it goes for the kids I know is:
โMom, dad, I want Minecraft!โ
Parent jumps on App Store and downloads the first thing called Minecraft
Then, if they get really into it, they go get Java. But Bedrock is sort of a filter for the serious ones haha
void void
I have 11 Minecraft accounts so I'll have to create 10 Microsoft accounts to migrate them all ;w;
iron zephyr
๐๐ #hardcoreminecraftprobs
twin lagoon
oh no!
iron zephyr
I guess Iโm most cynical because of the release of Bedrock for Windows 10. For awhile, it was sort of โJava is the PC Minecraftโ and โbedrock is mobile/console Minecraftโ. Now those lines are even blurrier
Iโll be interested to see how it all plays out. Thanks for humoring me ๐
(It is super frustrating to tell parents to go get the PC Java version of Minecraft to play on our server, and then they go and buy Windows 10 ๐๐๐. Which is a first world problem if Iโve ever heard one)
gentle nest
I have 11 Minecraft accounts so I'll have to create 10 Microsoft accounts to mig...
May I ask why do u have so many accounts? ๐
void void
Plugin testing
twin lagoon
probably got them for cheap through illegal resellers / stolen accounts
iron zephyr
Or spent $264 on Minecraft accounts ๐
void void
I've been playing Minecraft for 9 years
spice magnet
same
gentle nest
so have I (actually eight), but here I am with 1
iron zephyr
Same. ๐
gentle nest
I'd just make an offline server and test my stuff there
iron zephyr
I was in early middle school when I first discovered Minecraft. I watched game videos, read everything I could online, played with my friends on their accounts, etc. Finally, I decided to buy it (I was not a big spender). I went through the whole process, and there was some error in the credit card number. Mojang didnโt process my payment for 3 days. It seems so ridiculous now, but it was the longest three days of my life in middle school ๐
twin lagoon
๐
austere ivy
I'm late, but
iron zephyr
I just remember obsessively watching gameplay videos for 72 hours and dreaming of taming my first wolf. ๐
Isnโt Javaโs TOC changing? Does that affect MC at all? I donโt really know any details, except that Java screams at me every time I update it
twin lagoon
no
waxen panther
sus
spiral robin
๐
slim nymph
I guess Iโm most cynical because of the release of Bedrock for Windows 10. For a...
well its more of that games released for xbox tend to be playable on PC too lol, it was a freebie for them
IIRC they still promote java for PC visits
limber knotBOT
the other direction is most likely true too but consoles being consoles it's hard to do that lol
slim nymph
well ms has built their API to be abstract to just be the same for both on the base, so breaking play anywhere happens if you use platform specific API's in an ungated way
though they do have separate builds, as MS Store has a longer review process than Xbox
void void
assuming i intend to run a large server with approx 1000 people, what kind of RAM amount and core count would i need?
slim nymph
ARK players got boned by that often, Xbox would be updated but PC players were outdated for days sometimes
golden gust
- Bahahahahaaaa
twin lagoon
1000 players 1.16
waxen panther
5tb, 19900k
slim nymph
nitrogen cooled cpu
golden gust
- Multiple machines, you're gonna need multiple instances spread across with a proxy
void void
with bungeecord ofc
twin lagoon
your question still lacks detail
void void
correct
waxen panther
๐ velocity ๐
void void
what else should i answer
golden gust
Basically, if you're expecting to do that on a singular machine, "good luck"
slim nymph
well you didnt ask that lol, what game mode? avg playes per node goal?
twin lagoon
^
slim nymph
mini games are massively different than survival
golden gust
Really boils down to how you spread that load and how well you can optimize, there's so many variables in play that we're purely pissing in the wind here
void void
I'll be frank, I'm asking for a friend who's trying to invest, he intends to run skyblock and vanilla options
twin lagoon
I'll be frank, I'm asking for a friend who's trying to invest, he intends to run...
with paper you'll be capped at like 60 players per instance without nuking settings too much
slim nymph
careful with invest lol
waxen panther
the other emote was not the correct emotion 
twin lagoon
and assuming top of the line hardware
golden gust
(which is generally not a viable option for these scale setups, as you're gonna need multiple machines)
austere ivy
Rabbit hole?
golden gust
you're generally looking at a high end desktop CPU with a few servers and a dozen of players, or a server CPU with a dozen of servers and a few players
austere ivy
I hear "rabbit hole" and I'm interested.
waxen panther
pepega hole
slim nymph
well if you get like an 8 core system with 32GB of memory, can prob fit 4 instances on that
austere ivy
my favorite pastime is getting lost in interesting trails of nothingnes and drama
slim nymph
but thatll be really pushing the system in some cases
golden gust
They had a patch on their fork which was deleting user data, they shoved it to us as if it was a holy grail solution to an issue and got upset when we told them that that patch was literally stupid and likely to cause data loss
void void
hhmm
slim nymph
now how do you know your gonna get 1k players
void void
alright so initially I recommended r7 5800X and 128 GB ram, based on your description I failed to hit the right CPU / RAM balance?
slim nymph
you got 1k from some other game ready to come play?
twin lagoon
where are you going to host that
how many of those are you going to use of those servers
void void
that is not my problem, he strictly asked me to get info about hardware
and he'll do business himself
slim nymph
i would not dump huge money into this at the door, start small, grow out as player count grows
golden gust
I used to say to budget 1.5 cores per server
waxen panther
i think he's dramatically overestimating how many players he's going to get to start
void void
I dont have any money in his server
golden gust
These days it's probably more along the lines of 2-2.5 per server
void void
it's his risk entirely
slim nymph
well you can be the good friend to suggest sanity to him
whys he not here asking too lol
void void
no, he isn't banned
golden gust
inb4 he owns a casino
austere ivy
ah yes, ->, the lambda operator (I know it's not called operator shhhhhhh)
void void
he just has no interest doing ANY research
void void
no but he owns 4 companies
waxen panther
ez
waxen panther
sounds like a epic server owner ๐
void void
you can own hundreds of companies
correct
twin lagoon
best to just partner up with someone for this tbh
you're not getting 1k players
nor do you need a 5800x, most people will just use an e2288g
void void
I'd like to point out once again that I'm trying to gather info on hardware, not advertisement tips, I trust his ability to sell more than any amount of my research
waxen panther
pay in exposure
waxen panther
ez pz 1k players from no where
void void
I don't expect him to get 100
doesn't mean he's going to back down
๐
so anyway, what balance between CPU and RAM am I looking at
void void
well aware about that
also, what was the last version of MC that was great for large amount of players?
I recall there was older version that large servers like 2b2t don't upgrade from
twin lagoon
the older you go the more you can throw players on it
void void
i see
twin lagoon
i personally stick to latest versions
golden gust
budget like 2ish cores per server
waxen panther
if you're going to go old you're going to need your own developers and be fully aware you wont get support here
golden gust
allocating like more than 12G is generally pointless
leaving a few gig for the OS itself is generally a good idea
beyond that, specific needs will depend on the server, etc, etc
void void
12G per server?
twin lagoon
depends on the playercount
void void
so for every ryzen 5000 core If i allocate 12G i can expect relatively good balance?
ashen cliff
void void
per server ofc
ashen cliff
Yeah, no.
void void
what am I missing then
waxen panther
maybe you should hire an experienced sysadmin 
void void
I sincerely doubt large majority of sysadmins have a clue about MC specifically
golden gust
I said the amount that is generally not worth allocating more than, some servers like minigame servers won't need even half of that
twin lagoon
anything you need
waxen panther
There are sysadmins that know abnout mc stuff though lol
golden gust
You're basically gonna have to look at what instances you're going to run and start plotting out your resource requirements and all that
void void
alright
twin lagoon
asking here is pretty pointless besides giving you some general pointers
slim nymph
MC does use multiple cores. I generally recommend 4 cores for a survival server, but if your stacking servers, you can let some of them overlap and share. Estimate 1.5 dedicated cores per server without world generation and up to 2.5 cores per server if it will have world generation.
an active world generating chunks can use up to 3 cores
cosmic raft
how many potatoes is 2.5 cores
waxen panther
7
twin lagoon
4
slim nymph
PER WORLD...
void void
okay, that's useful to know thanks
slim nymph
so if you have 2 very active worlds generating chunks, thats 5 cores
(2 per world + 1 main thread)
so if that is a standard possibilitity, you would want to stack less servers per machine then
and you said 'vanilla' so that kinda implies some world generation
twin lagoon
but that's also excluding plugins
slim nymph
unless you really intend to cap it to small world
twin lagoon
i generally just put two or three large (100 - 200 players) gamemode servers on one server tbh
twin lagoon
yes but how many threads
slim nymph
8 IIRC
void void
thank you so much for sharing this
twin lagoon
there's yer issue
yeah i should probably mention that i only use 16 thread cpus for those servers
slim nymph
im also on a much older and weaker CPU ๐
slim nymph
yeah well my host doesnt have those lol
twin lagoon
im also on a much older and weaker CPU ๐
time to upgrade
slim nymph
an would prob cost a lot
twin lagoon
idk, how much you paying for rn
twin lagoon
for that you can get an e-2288g, 1tb nvme & 64gb ram
ashen cliff
Needs more cache.
twin lagoon
$125/mo
slim nymph
at other hosts yes lol
slim nymph
what host thats not ovh has that and private lans?
waxen panther
michael got phoenixnap on macro
twin lagoon
literally
ok well not on macro, if i enter phoenixnap in my browser it just recommends me that link
ashen cliff
Michael referral code links when?
slim nymph
and thats proper private lan on a switch and not some simulated shit over the internet?
marble lark
12G per server?
iirc too much RAM causes the JVM GC to go all over the place which actually ironically causes more lag or something
twin lagoon
i only know the private LAN is available in the same DC your servers are in and not inter-dc
void void
@marble lark I've heard differently from a developer within this server
so I'll trust the dev more
marble lark
Well I never said more RAM is bad
golden gust
lots of ram is just generally pointless, there are some caveats where you gotta have a CPU capable of dealing with that much ram, but, generally fine
marble lark
I've heard that too much also causes it to slow due to GC issues but I really don't know Dx
void void
ashen cliff
๐ค Internal LAN going to WAN and then back sounds like someone cheaped out by using fibric extenders.
waxen panther
iCar
marble lark
i mean they aren't disagreeing with me, they're also saying more RAM is better, just don't do something crazy like 50GB for 1 server
void void
enjoy swap mem
slim nymph
more ram increases baseline cost, but even at extreme 50GB levels its still tolerable. but even then, I could tune it to improve it more there too lol
cosmic raft
more RAM doesn't hurt
unless it is falling onto you and causing pain
green edge
A GC takes more to clean more ram
slim nymph
but, at a certain point, the return on investment is diminished
void void
quite obviously
green edge
so once you start allocating too much it can start affecting performance if you don't fiddle with the GC
marble lark
A GC takes more to clean more ram
yeah that's what I've been hearing so far
ashen cliff
Just don't commit all the ram. Since the JVM will just lower it's committed ram naturally.
marble lark
yep you worded it way better than me
slim nymph
so I look at dont buy 128 GB systems unless your gonna be stacking lots of instances, but if you got a 32GB machine and nothing else is using it, sure go ahead and use 20GB of it
green edge
Also, if ram is an issue, look into OpenJ9
had good experience with it for minigames
less so for gamemodes like survival
void void
should I not host more than 1 server from 1 machine (motherboard) having for example 8 cores?
slim nymph
@green edge untuned yeah, but with my flags, more can improve GC cost to a certain degree, but it does reach a point it adds noticeable baseline
slim nymph
for skyblocks you can prob do 4 on that, survival 2-3 max
void void
okay, noted
ashen cliff
Should be like 24TB for normal servers.
marble lark
jesus christ 24TB of RAM
void void
and for 4 skyblock instances, 32GB ram should be sufficient?
marble lark
I was expecting like 9 HAHA
slim nymph
ive seen someone allocate 80GB to their server with my flags, and GC was around 100ms average. not "ideal" but still not a "huge problem", still better than ParaGC lol
void void
I can understand that it may be impossible to answer
ashen cliff
Well. That's for S8S compatible stuff, normal going like 2 stocked would be 6TB ATM.
waxen panther
diaf
marble lark
.g OpenJ9
austere ivy
hear me out on this: no gc at all, and just so much ram that a daily restart will be enough to make sure it never fills up
limber knotBOT
(DiscordBot) https://www.eclipse.org/openj9/ -- Eclipse OpenJ9: "Unleash the power of Java. Optimized to run Javaโข applications cost-effectively in the cloud, Eclipse OpenJ9 is a fast and efficient JVM that..."
golden gust
given that MC can ez allocate like multiple hundred MB in a second...
slim nymph
well considering mc allocates gigabytes in seconds, good luck brian
ashen cliff
EpsilonGC โค๏ธ
marble lark
given that MC can ez allocate like multiple hundred MB in a second...
iirc MC used to run on 256MB or something back in 1.2 until they split the client into an integrated server
not sure if that's true or not
golden gust
allocation and allocation rate are two entirely different things
1.16 can run on 2G of ram
marble lark
oh oops didn't read
golden gust
It's gonna be GC'ing literally every handful of seconds tops
austere ivy
optifine's dev wrote a rant post on Minecraft allocating and throwing away a ton more objects in one tick after the 1.8 update, pretty sure the focus of the rant was on the new BlockPos instead of passing around 3 ints
slim nymph
yes block pos was a huge start to allocation
austere ivy
(new at the time. I'm genuinely shocked 1.8 is so old, I feel old)
slim nymph
and mojangs gone back and forth on pooling
marble lark
feels like Mojang makes optimizations in some areas only to throw away all that extra speed on other unoptimized areas sometimes tbh
pooling?
limber knotBOT
that's what you get if you allow game designers to write code ;)
marble lark
I mean
limber knotBOT
Mojang still operates like an indie studio lol
golden gust
having a pool of objects you borrow instead of allocating new ones each time you want one
Issue is that pooling requires that you have a sane way to track how stuff is used, e.g. you don't want a pooled object to be blindly mutated without the caller expecting it
marble lark
that's what you get if you allow game designers to write code ;)
it is pretty much the only large scale modern game written from the ground up without a game engine
golden gust
Which has also been the source of some fun issues
marble lark
ah I see
limber knotBOT
really depends on what you mean by "large scale"
austere ivy
I think he means by Minecraft having been the most popular game of all time, world wide, surpassing even Tetris
er, most purchased.
marble lark
Mojang still operates like an indie studio lol
they only have 15 or so Devs unless I remember wrongly
limber knotBOT
also pretty sure LoL is also using a self-developed engine ;)
marble lark
I think he means by Minecraft having been the most popular game of all time, wor...
not just that, Minecraft's mechanics aren't really simple either
limber knotBOT
of course they don't behave like an indie studio and actually make tons of money lol
austere ivy
mighty impressive
unkempt drift
Isn't tetris still higher grossing adjusted for inflation?
marble lark
well self developed engine is sort of different from writing the entire game from scratch
austere ivy
I'm not sure about grossing
green edge
Tetris is probabbly cheaper
limber knotBOT
so they should include all Tetris versions too ;D
golden gust
I mean, all a game engine is is generally a few dozen random individual components tied together with some glue
cunning raft
2006
unkempt drift
apparently 100 million people if "sales" is what that means
marble lark
I mean, all a game engine is is generally a few dozen random individual componen...
true that
green edge
Most dumb phones come with tetris or some other small games preinstalled
austere ivy
have any of you tried Godot?
green edge
at least in my area
limber knotBOT
marble lark
game engines are used to make games though, Minecraft was certainly not made in a (proper) engine (Ik I'm bad with words lol)
marble lark
have any of you tried Godot?
I've only tried Unity so far
limber knotBOT
never seen an android or iphone with tetris preinstalled lol
austere ivy
that's a long list
green edge
Not android or apple
marble lark
it's confusing
green edge
older phones
austere ivy
I've only tried Unity so far
give it a try, it's quite nice for 2D games
green edge
forgot the names for the OS, checking now
marble lark
I can't do anything
twin lagoon
@slim nymph i asked phoenixnap about your private LAN stuff, wanted to ask them about AMD processors anyway
they're hardware level
limber knotBOT
I mean, older phones haven't really been a thing for 10 years for anyone below 60 in western society
marble lark
I'm waiting for the new Godot version to drop too
slim nymph
you know how much work that is to move servers though ._.
green edge
Symbian
marble lark
that gif is not kind on my eyes rip
slim nymph
my web server has a ton of shit, ive had a new server on standby for years i havent used as never get time to do the migration
twin lagoon
slim nymph
and then forget about it
limber knotBOT
this is the best tetris-like game anyways: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blockout
slim nymph
i wanted to proper salt stack it
slim nymph
and id have to move all 5 servers at the same time since site and mc are integrated and both use the DB server
golden gust
Or, waiy, E63
slim nymph
yeah but salt is the disaster recovery solution to quickly get it back up if it went down ๐
that machines been manually built over many years
golden gust
Aikar, this is 2020
slim nymph
i have configs and such backed up, but to restore all that manually would be a PITA
golden gust
Just throw everything in a docker-compose file and run
golden gust
slim nymph
salt is essentially docker compose lol
worn ember
๐
slim nymph
just without the docker
twin lagoon
if you're not running baremetal self-managed kubernetes high availability clusters in 2020
you're doing something wrong kiddo
slim nymph
i do kinda wanna isolate mail stack stuff on its own though
golden gust
I actually wanted to toy with kubernetes, but all the guides where just "install kubernetes", and it's like, they expect you to magically poop up some enterprise level kubernetes install, or try to mess with minikube, etc, and, just le sigh
golden gust
Basically, I had something working, and then it got stuck in an upgrade which would randomly overload the machine to all death and kill it, and, so, just, erm...
slim nymph
does that phoenixnap have auto bill pay, thats why i wont do ovh, last i heard you have to manually pay bill
worn ember
lmfao, i pressed escape and my game crashed
slim nymph
they finally added it?
twin lagoon
they've had it for quite some time
slim nymph
was a few years ago i had a cloud vps, maybe they dont give it on low end for some reason? and i heard others talk about it too
i remember asking about it many years ago and people said no it doesnt have it
ashen cliff
AFAIK they always did, but you had to pay with paypal.
golden gust
afaik, they don't offer subscriptions for VPSes
twin lagoon
idk about phoenixnap, i'm going to assume they have it but i don't pay for any servers myself 
slim nymph
but i wouldnt go with ovh based on their shitty support, im still pissed about the one server i had with them
plus getting DDOS'd
twin lagoon
i'll get back to you once i get an answer
oh yeah OVH's support is still ass
pnap has livechat so
worn ember
i need to do invoices for hetzner every month
slim nymph
they wanted me to physically break into their data center and get on the TTY before theyd help me
required I provide them a trace route from the server I couldnt access
golden gust
I'm glad that IPMI is basically standard with most providers these days
twin lagoon
OVH doesn't have IPMI for their game servers
slim nymph
well the cloud vps didnt have that, and doubt it would of worked anwyays, their internal network was even detecting the outage
fallen oracle
Morning
austere ivy
good morning
slim nymph
i was like "your own systems say its having problems, what more do you need?"
austere ivy
:peepoheart:
golden gust
They did on the game box that I was trying to access other day for somebody
austere ivy
I will incinerate whoever took away my Discord Nitro
golden gust
was a game-2 or something
worn ember
golden gust
Really just boils down to the mobo in play
ashen cliff
I assume they only added that as ASUS started shipping that as standard.
golden gust
wonder if it's maybe an AMD vs intel thing, as I know they use supermicro boards
twin lagoon
they use asrock rack boards actually
golden gust
Oh, wait, yea, they switched