speedrunning

[haughty fossil]

ahk can be quite laggy

vali made blue.exe in c specifically to reduce lag as much as possible, we had issues with AHK when we were using it for the SOCD cleaner

[limpid dust]

the socd cleaner on ahk was bad yea sometimes a key was stuck

but just basic rebinds like right click = J really ain't bad I think

but yeah something in C is probably even better

[stoic sluice]

ill have to try those out thanks

[olive whale]

A few days ago, I saw fireb0rn's video on this. At one point, he mentioned needing the nail upgrade to shade skip to Broken Vessel. Well, on the current patch, the shade also spawns on the geo rock platform in the spike tunnel (It might also happen on some slightly older patches idk). I know that this means you can't perform lever skip in Watcher's Spire but idk. It's probably a time save. So, I decided to investigate and fell deeper and deeper into this rabbit hole. So, I ended up with this. This guide is pretty unoptimized but the main reason I created this was because why not. All in all, I think Isma's tear route is probably faster.

[leaden python]

Dreamnail and destroy Lurien the Watcher
Save and quit to stag; purchase it for later usage.

This is not exactly how hardsaves in the game work

if you s/q after killing Lurien, you'll wake up near the place he died, at the top of the Spire

[hearty adder]

While the effort is appreciated, cdash route has already been proven to be faster

[leaden python]

So you really need to buy KS before going to spire if you want to use it later efficiently

Also, were you able to lure the shade all the way from the geo rocks to kill it without any nail upgrades and stuff like that?

or are you just theorizing?

[uneven pike]

The only way at this point that ismas route is faster is if you dont get ismas

if you found a way to use wings to get across the pool by Monomon it MIGHT be faster

[hearty adder]

I don't think so, cdash not only lets you do acid skips but also lets you be faster on longer areas overall

[uneven pike]

true

but if you could do the pool at the bottom of monomon with wings it might be worth looking into

[leaden python]

there is 1mg way to skip to monomon with wings and dash

[uneven pike]

the only way I could see that being possible tho is if you found a way to get a jellyfish infection blob down there

yeah lemme guess the wallcling storage?

[leaden python]

yep

[uneven pike]

yeah

[mild moon]

No one cares about skipping to Monomon though.

Skipping from Monomon is the harder of the two.

[uneven pike]

Oh shit your right

monomons a hard save isnt she

[leaden python]

oh yeah, unless there's a way to get consistent wcs on the way back

any% 2mg

Monomon tank is so spaghetti I wouldn't be surprised if it's possible to get wcs by sliding off of some of its most fucked parts

[hallow orchid]

With wcs on the way in and 3 fireballs on the way out I think it's possible

But that's 1mg and at that point just skip uumuu entirely

[knotty vigil]

so i was watching a run for current patch all skills and they got the greenpath stag. but it doesn't say that anywhere in the notes im looking at. which one do i do?

[stark birch]

there are like 6 cpas routes at this point lol take your pick

[leaden python]

[last inlet]

cpas route rando tourney

[leaden python]

wr currently has fastest known route, it probably matches the written notes the most

[hallow orchid]

All skills but the order you have to get them in is randomized

[knotty vigil]

so if it doesn't say it in the notes i just don't do it?

[hallow orchid]

I would actually run that it sounds fun

[last inlet]

presumably it has to have logic tho bc otherwise it could be literally impossible right?

since like claw is a skill

[hallow orchid]

For a couple things sure but like put claw early and you're set

You can just import the rando logic and do it though

[last inlet]

yeah ig claw is probably like the only bit of logic needed

[vague jolt]

Can you get wraiths first with longnail baldur and shade skip?

[hallow orchid]

Technically, yes

Practically let's not

[vague jolt]

[hallow orchid]

Alex has an itemless wraiths clip somewhere

It's cursed as hell

But should be free with longnail

[stark birch]

someone mod talkatoo into dirtmouth let's do it

[last inlet]

this but 112% and it has proper rando logic

[stark birch]

talkatoo with settings for any% (dreamers only) / all skills / all bosses / 112 👀

[last inlet]

next % is the second half of mwc

[hallow orchid]

@ flib

[vague jolt]

[lunar panther]

do any speedrunners know if doing sanctum to get dive is ultimately worth it? like ddive/ddark helps nominally with certain battles but is it ultimately worth it to go all the way through sanctum for it

[uneven pike]

nomegalul

[lunar panther]

im a beginner doing any% nmg for context

[uneven pike]

yeah no

[lunar panther]

ok

[uneven pike]

big time waste

[lunar panther]

guess i should start practicing watcher knights and hk with no ddark

[uneven pike]

you can go for nail 1 if your problem is wk

[lunar panther]

i go for nail 2 bro i literally suck at the game

[uneven pike]

and use spore shroom if your running current patch for thk

[lunar panther]

isnt spore kind of out of the way?

[uneven pike]

no...

unless your doing qga

you get it on the way to deepnest

[hallow orchid]

I'd recommend checking the pins for the any% route and some resources to help you learn it

Dive is unfortunately too slow

[lunar panther]

im currently doing qga but looking for a better option

[uneven pike]

and since you said "I suck at the game" im assuming your not doing qga

[lunar panther]

oh wait i dont think qga is what im thinking of

[stiff delta]

if you wanna practice a lot get debug mod, its got cool savestates and stuff

queens gardens acid

its that cool skip you do after monomon

[lunar panther]

ohh ok

[uneven pike]

Its one of the hardest skips in the run tho

and it only saves 45 secs

[stiff delta]

yea if you arent confident with queens gardens and take it too slow, its not worth it

are you on current patch?

[uneven pike]

hes not gonna be

hes not comfortable with wk without dive

[stiff delta]

jesus dude

chill

[uneven pike]

wdym

[stiff delta]

feels like your being a little rude to someone just asking for help

[uneven pike]

its literally the hardest skip in the run

[hallow orchid]

Those kind of comments are not helpful elemental, people struggle with different things and assuming someone will struggle with something is kinda rude

[quiet saddle]

Idk. Read the last 20 messages or so and I don't think elemental is being very rude.

Think they're just being blunt and factual

[lunar panther]

i mean hes right? wk without dive would take me hours

[uneven pike]

wk is the hardest required part of the run

that is required to do it in a reasonable amount of time

[lunar panther]

skips never look hard when youre watching them on twitch

[uneven pike]

you shouldnt feel bad about not being good at it

My problem here is that TK[] is implying that qga is worth going for

which it's very much not

[stiff delta]

it is bb

if you know how to do it and can do it well

[lunar panther]

i mean ideally i would want to get good at most major skips but i wanna take things one step at a time

[uneven pike]

your just wrong but ok

Dude this guys is struggling with wk

hes new to the run

[stiff delta]

that being said, i personally think you should go for it even if you think/know you'll end up going slower

[uneven pike]

You are very much incorrect

[stiff delta]

more practice for later and you end up more comfortable with the optimal route in the end

[lunar panther]

i dont think TK is implying that i should go for qga, just that ideally its a skip worthy of being done in a good run

[uneven pike]

top players have to practice that thing daily and still consistently mess it up

[lunar panther]

unless im wrong and hes actually telling me to try it

[stiff delta]

personally i think you should do

[uneven pike]

he literally is

[lunar panther]

wow ok

[stiff delta]

when i said it before i wasnt saying you should do it

i think you should but i wasnt implying it

you should do the route that feels most comfortable to you

[uneven pike]

im just gonna dm you tips

[lunar panther]

my strategy for gradually cutting down my PB has been start with the standard 5hr completion route, get really good at completing it as fast as possible and then gradually add skips

[stiff delta]

thats how I started out

[uneven pike]

because tk is telling you to do the hardest skip in the game on your first run

[lunar panther]

seems like the easiest way to ease into it

lmao go for it

[stiff delta]

.

[lunar panther]

thats fair

[hallow orchid]

It's worth learning eventually but if you don't want to do it don't learn it yet, nothing wrong with going around through deepnest

[static crow]

has anyone done hunters journal speed run lol

[uneven pike]

check speedrun misc nmg pins

[short spire]

i think all cheevos runs are the only runs that have been done with full hunters journal

it already has one

[verbal stag]

it's under misc on the main board

[hallow orchid]

Why is all cheevos on the main board....?

I thought it was on the meme board

[short spire]

cause the concept of getting all the achievements is a very well defined goal by the game and not as arbitrary as one would consider most meme categories to be i guess

[hallow orchid]

I guess I can see it but like so is mr mushroom ending or something

I guess all achievements is less arbitrary than any given achievement

[short spire]

yeah i kinda see it as a 100% run taken to the max

mr mushroom is definitely on the brink as well, i wouldn't complain if it was on the main boards

but it's just not a very interesting run to be honest

[low bramble]

its just GE with some extra detors right?

[hallow orchid]

Yeah it's just any% with a fetch quest. There's some other categories that aim for well defined in game goals that are more interesting though like cartographer%

[short spire]

it's any% except with mr mushroom

[hallow orchid]

I guess finishing the game is also a reasonable bar, in which case mr mushroom may be the only meme category to fit all those criteria

[low bramble]

oh i thought mushroom was for godhome ending only

dum

[hallow orchid]

No it's any ending haha

[knotty vigil]

shoutouts to the route https://pastebin.com/GygzDqi8

and the current patch route

[snow dome]

Lol

[proper hedge]

hey all so i downpatched to 1.2.2.1 & the game won't recognise my controller at all, wired or wireless. but current patch/other games do. anyone know what i could do?

[hearty adder]

What controller is it?

Some controllers weren't compatible back then, you'll have to use something like joy2key to bind controller inputs to kb inputs

[proper hedge]

a switch pro controller

[hearty adder]

Yeah, that wasn't supported back then

[digital jewel]

yep you need to use something like joy2key to bind that to keyboard inputs

[proper hedge]

alrighty will do that thanks!!!

[craggy pebble]

ive beaten hornet
then ive wuit to skip the cutscene

then ive enterede the wrong file

[stiff delta]

yea that happens sometimes lmao

[elfin vortex]

can relate. Accidentally started a new game accidentally after warping midgame

[frank obsidian]

Okay so I was in Beast's Den and I tried to parry a devout and it started repeatedly making the parry sound really fast and just knocking me back really hard and I was stuck against a wall

[stray kestrel]

that happens to me sometimes, not exactly like that but my computer lags and the sound starts stuttering and the game freezes

so i'd guess since knockback is framerate dependant it would yeet you real far because framerate is 0

[craggy pebble]

the fungal pogo works in current patch?

[grizzled maple]

explosion pogo?

if so, yes there's several types

[craggy pebble]

this

[analog monolith]

yes there are multiple ways to do it, the currently used 1221 method does not work on cp

[craggy pebble]

:(

[stiff delta]

comfypogo is the new main one

its cool

[vital geyser]

which one is that?

[stiff delta]

fireball stall one

[vital geyser]

ok

[analog monolith]

dash fireball dash fireball pogo

[strong vessel]

I need to try current patch epogo

I just don't even attempt it

And go around

[analog monolith]

it's probably not worth it unless you're consistent at it

[strong vessel]

Well that's what trying it is for

[stiff delta]

https://youtu.be/bYsRWyHjcmM

[analog monolith]

otherwise it's timeloss and you risk dying entirely

^ comfy epogo

[vital geyser]

which ones faster. the fireball stall or the one where you dash and pogo off a shroom

[stiff delta]

id say epogo is one of the more important tricks in the run

pantapogo is the fastest iirc

[vital geyser]

ok

panta as in pantaloonybin?

[analog monolith]

the fireball stall and the roundabout one are both about the same

[stiff delta]

i believe so

[strong vessel]

What does pantapogo do?

[vital geyser]

wait at the left

[analog monolith]

go to the bottom, dash right, pogo the shroom, dash left, pogo

[vital geyser]

then dash pogo dash

[strong vessel]

Oh, it's that one

[vital geyser]

honestly id recommend choosing the method you think looks the coolest because then youll have the most motivation to learn it. all of them are relatively the same difficulty imo

[flint flare]

I saw a comfypogo variation that hops off the ledge instead of dashing as well, but I forget who posted it

[hallow orchid]

there's variants for 1/2/3 fireballs but the double dash method is by far the easiest imo

also I would definitely say that comfypogo is much easier than pantapogo and much easier to learn than the vsync epogo in my own experience but ymmv

[stark birch]

comfypogo is just more lenient, especially the 3 fireball version
panta absolutely looks sickest though, this is an objective fact

[flint flare]

im pretty bad at all of them but that matches my experience practicing

[vital geyser]

i think vsync just feels bad because you have to open settings. and then depending on your setup, you could have a lot input lag doing mantis pogo

it might be good to learn both pantapogo and comfypogo just because if you mess up comfypogo, you have to reset or gather a bunch of soul

[flint flare]

I will say the hop variation is nice because the only turnaround is to pogo

[hallow orchid]

with 3fb you only have to turn around after the first fireball if you choose, and you can buffer that during the fb animation so it's completely free

like you don't even have to turn back to pogo

like dash -> hold right -> fireball -> hold left -> 2 fireballs and a pogo

[strong vessel]

Isn't there another dash in there

[hallow orchid]

yeah after the left, sorry

[elfin vortex]

imo vsync is the easiest ngl. Is slow cuz of menues tho. Panta is just hard and im not even sure if I was attempting it correctly cuz I didnt get it once while practising and the comfy is pretty nice cuz its ez and fast (not as fast as panta ofc)

[vital geyser]

vsync also bad because of lag in mantis pogo and you can only attempt it 2 times

that acn be scary for beginner runners

[grizzled maple]

it's not even that slow. talking 2-3 seconds total between menus

a lot of runners still do it, but comfy pogo, the new one, is best. vsync is still the backup for people with 60hz monitors

panta pogo is really really hard. few people main it

[vital geyser]

oof

im trying comfypogo 3 fireball and i can do it pretty easily, but i always damage tank after the pogo

[elfin vortex]

true ig but 2-3 is a decent bit of time for shorter cats

[grizzled maple]

comfy pogo loses nearly the same amount on soul collection

panta pogo is the only fast option

and there's a reason few people do it

[hallow orchid]

Pretty much no matter what category you're running you're better off doing whatever you can get first try

[vital geyser]

ngl im super consistent on this one strat

going around through village

[flint flare]

tourism strats

[hallow orchid]

I would recommend picking one to try once per run and go around if you miss it

It's quite a bit of timesave and never hurts to try once

[vital geyser]

no i was joking im a pantapogo main

experimenting with the comfypogo rn tho its def a lot easier

[leaden python]

I switched to 1fb strat, lets me to reuse some of my pantapogo skills while being easier and more lenient on soul

[grizzled maple]

im about to learn it soon™ since i might be about to come back to 112 earlier than expected

[analog monolith]

i did panta pogo for like 5 months

bc that was the only cp epogo strat i really knew

[vital geyser]

oh yeah whats the 1 fireball method

all i remember is mathulu saying it was cursed

[hot latch]

Question (for future reference in my runs) I was in the middle of a run recording and timed and all that, when i save quit after i got C-dash hk crashed, the timer was visible in the recording the whole time but the real time and game time both stopped when hk closed, once it started up again they started back up automatically, would this invalidate the run? It's not too important because i ended up scrapping the run anyways but it'd be nice to know

[digital jewel]

that's valid

[hot latch]

Alrighty thank you

[hollow mesa]

?saves

[sick raven]

Saves

---

Windows File Paths: (Assumes Default Steam Install Path, Adjust accordingly for DRM Free or Non-Standard Steam Path)

Game Files: C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\Hollow Knight\```
** **
Mac File Paths:
```Save Files: ~/Library/Application Support/unity.Team Cherry.Hollow Knight/
Game Files: ~/Library/Application Support/Steam/steamapps/common/Hollow Knight/hollow_knight.app/```
** **
Linux File Paths:
```Save Files: ~/.config/unity3d/Team Cherry/Hollow Knight/
Game Files: ~/.local/share/Steam/steamapps/common/Hollow Knight/```

[last inlet]

protip: make a shortcut to your saves folder in a convenient location so you can just use that

instead of having to go to appdata every time and navigate there

[hollow mesa]

Trueeeeee

I usually forget 🥴

[stiff marsh]

I just started learning to run HK and I just got my first blue lake shade skip and I'm HYPED about it!

[pure vault]

congrats

pulling off tricks/glitches/sequence breaks for the first time always feels so nice

[dapper cove]

i remember it taking me like 20+ minutes to get shade skip for the first time

it felt so cool to do it

[stiff marsh]

Definitely! I've tried to do it a bunch of times on switch but the joycons were impossible. Now that I'm on PC with a proper controller I got lucky like 5th or 6th try. Now I know I can do it, gotta start the grind to make it consistent...

[dapper cove]

i haven't even dared to try QGA or epogo yet so I gotta work on that now

[stiff marsh]

Yeah so far I've skipped learning epogo and just go around for now 😅

[pure vault]

yea everyone learns at their own pace, I did dozens of runs before I ever even attempted epogo in a run

[grizzled maple]

When I was a brand new runner that was the hardest trick to learn for me

[pure vault]

nothing wrong with easier strats until you feel comfy

[grizzled maple]

Theres a bunch of nuance to making it work that makes sense once you have a better understanding of the game and some muscle memory

[stiff marsh]

I just figured out modding so having save states is gonna make things like learning epogo a lot easier

[stray kestrel]

which patch you on?

[stiff marsh]

1.2.2.1, I'm learning the all skills route

[stiff delta]

nice

gamer patch

[dapper cove]

i agree

[stiff marsh]

Just moved on from practicing the route through mantis claw and now I'm moving on to kings station

[limpid ruin]

epogo is impossible, true

[dapper cove]

i think that'll be my mission tomorrow

try and do QGA and epogo once each

[limpid ruin]

you got this

[stiff marsh]

Have confidence!

[limpid ruin]

ngl, qga is less bad than it seems once you get the rhythm down. When that clicks tho

[dapper cove]

I might run to the local earthbound though just to grab two journals so I can use those

one for speedrunning and the other for purposes that i won't go into here as it isn't the place

[stiff delta]

qga is nice

[dapper cove]

omg fawful spins

[vocal dove]

qga is definitely a thing that exists

[dapper cove]

there's still a bunch of tricks i need to get down

[stiff delta]

look at him go

[dapper cove]

i would like to see fawful chortle

[stiff delta]

me too

but now we are offtopic lmao

[dapper cove]

i will retract what i was about to say lmao

i'm off for the night gn!

[stiff delta]

gn

[dawn adder]

is there an alternative to queens garden acid skip?

[stiff delta]

yea

theres a route through deepnest

if you are on current patch you can grab spore shroom too which is busted

[dawn adder]

ah ok i see the dotted lines now

[dawn adder]

1st run ive ever done 2h 52 mins

[true palm]

nice

[honest folio]

gg

[dawn adder]

2h and 51 mins of which i spent fighting watcher knights

also would it be rational to make another save for if i were to go for 100% under 20 hours or do i have enough time left

[elfin vortex]

Can someone explain to me what im doing wrong here that causes me to have a 1:56 entrance into crossroads despite a 1:18 FotF pickup? Its a super minor thing but irritates me endlessly when starting a new 112 run and im quite confused cuz when looking at other runs they normally have a 1:52 entrance

[onyx spade]

sad truth is on CP, slower PCs will have the timer continue on longer during save and quits, it's losing you like 2 secs, kinda sucks

also try and have some velocity while jumping into well, and hard fall cancel could be faster

[elfin vortex]

is there a way to remedy the timer going on for a bit longer or? Also yh I'll try out hard fall cancels too

[onyx spade]

currently not unfortunately, you could try playing with video settings to make the game run faster

[elfin vortex]

all my hk video settings are on the lowest settings

[limpid dust]

Wait the autosplitter has difference because of loads? Isn t that the point of an igt ?

[normal aspen]

Autosplitter is borked on quitouts on cp

But nobody has fixed it

Makes 4ms cp dumb

Coz it's 8 mins and has 2 savequits

[dusk portal]

So now I can blame my PB pace run getting killed because of autosplit

[steady lynx]

Just run console, losing time on quitouts is consistent there

[dusk portal]

Btw, since you run on console, the Switch has the biggest imput lag, right?

[steady lynx]

Probably

Haven't tried Xbone or next gen

But I'd assume switch is worse

[dusk portal]

On PC, my nail swing rate is the same as Switch+ Quick Slash 🥴

[normal aspen]

apparently xbone is the worstr

[steady lynx]

How?

I honestly think emray explained the console versions best

It's like playing underwater

[normal aspen]

yeah

[steady lynx]

Once I get a functional PC y'all better watch out because I'll be 13th place or something

Even though I'll probably only run 1xx and AS

Also GE to have a functional time on the board

And meme categories

[twin swallow]

have a better CPU

it's dumb as fuck but that's how it is

[flint dragon]

I accidentaly did speedsun 1 and 100% speed run on steel soul and got 4 achevments in one playthru ending

it was so funny

[sick raven]

Reminder: This category is intended for competitive speedrunning discussion. Questions about achievements should be directed to #hk-help.
Guide for the 5hr speedrunning achievement: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1861523602

[kind flume]

cool :D Next up; real speedrun!

[gentle kernel]

when we record a run to submit, do we have keep a timer on the screen as well?

[hearty adder]

If you want it to be timed in loadless time, yes

if not, it will have to be retimed to real time

[gentle kernel]

ok, makes sense

thank you

[mighty delta]

In pantheon runs is it ok if I get all the items with dbug but I do the actual runs without mods?

[fair island]

You could use a godseeker save

[mighty delta]

But there is 5 hp overcharm

[knotty vigil]

https://www.speedrun.com/hollowknight/resources

[digital jewel]

just copy someone else's save

[knotty vigil]

there's a save file there for 5hp godhome

[mighty delta]

Ok thanks

[swift linden]

hey do you know there are some bosses like mantis lord that you can attack, but they have a scream, if you open your charms at the right time you can avoid being stunned, while being able to attack, this can be used to take down bosses much faster like the collector, which you can skip the first faze of.

[leaden python]

Yes it's known and is banned in no major glitches categories

But glitched categories use it a lot

[hearty adder]

More precisely, you'd be using inventory storage (which is a major glitch, as valignatev already mentioned). However, you can achieve the same effect by damage tanking bosses at the right time

[stiff delta]

You can skip some screams by getting hit during the scream

the two i can think of rn are mawlek and THK

[steady lynx]

Dung Defender

[dull lion]

Collector is also a big one

[steady lynx]

Defender might be the easiest scream skip

[dull lion]

Yeah

[dark blaze]

White and dung defender, traitor lord, collector are ones you can do in pantheons

[dull lion]

That’s interesting because you can’t do white defender normally lol

Well you can do the mid fight one but not entrance

[digital jewel]

you can do entrance scream skip

oh you mean in overworld

yeah true

[crystal relic]

There's always the illegal menu scream skip

[steady lynx]

Just be behind on a 112 run and do a menu scream skip on AbsRad for free 112% AG WR

[crystal relic]

Lmao I did scream skip absrad

You just can't hit her when you do

[dapper cove]

alright what should i learn first epogo or QGA lol

[maiden bane]

epogo is used in every category that gets mantis claw except acn

[vital geyser]

epogo

[dapper cove]

alright epogo it is

[uneven pike]

epogo is easier

and feels cooler to hit

[dapper cove]

i have an hour to work on this so

and for now i'm gunna do 1221 bc that's easier

[uneven pike]

make sure to practice with debug

[dapper cove]

oh i will lol

[hallow orchid]

Qga is useful in a single run basically, epogo useful in almost every run

plus any% is better with spore shroom anyway

[stiff delta]

based mathulu

qga has so much more swag tho

[strong vessel]

I really need to try spore shroom

Does it only work on current patch?

[stiff delta]

yea

[low bramble]

yea

[haughty fossil]

yes

[stiff delta]

gottem ggs

[dapper cove]

QGA is also in al2ba but idk if i want to run that

[stiff delta]

?????? why are you snailing me 5head

[hallow orchid]

Listen I love acid skips (even did qga with the flower in a rando once) but cp epogo is way more swag than qga

[low bramble]

[hallow orchid]

TK is first on my screen

[haughty fossil]

aerto you're behind

[dapper cove]

tk is first on my screen too

[low bramble]

[stiff delta]

whip nae nae

[strong vessel]

WL aluba?

[uneven pike]

oh hey look tk is back at it again telling people who just started speedrunning that they need to do qga

[dapper cove]

?

[stiff delta]

lmao

get real

[strong vessel]

White Lady

[stiff delta]

i think it is white lady aluba

[strong vessel]

I wonder, is it fastest to get shade soul then hit it from the other side?

[hallow orchid]

Al2ba you can also go around instead of qga, it loses less time than any%

[strong vessel]

Probably a lot faster than shade cloak

[hallow orchid]

It is, that's what al2ba does

[strong vessel]

Around as in by howling wraiths?

[hallow orchid]

No, through deepnest

[dapper cove]

i've got my punk music on and i'm ready to nail this epogo

[stiff delta]

gl

[vital geyser]

does anyone have a video on the moss knight 2 fb setup? ive looked around and i cant find one

[hearty adder]

which patch?

[vital geyser]

cp

[hallow orchid]

For 1221 pisces' as tutorial covers it

[low bramble]

vali has a ss somewhere

[hallow orchid]

It's the same on cp but you have to be further left because the hitbox is shifted. Vali posted a visual cue a while back yeah

[low bramble]

@ vali when u get a chance can u post it in strats

[hearty adder]

#all-skills message

here it is

[somber cedar]

The tutorial in question coming up on moss knight https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0F4mD0dFVc&list=PLe3Nyw-0gXJpBqG9qLRx195qLFI3FD3_N&index=3&t=18m10s

[hearty adder]

i use this setup for cp 2fb moss knight, works like a charm

[snow dome]

Hey. Just sorting out the SOCD cleaner for the first time. I've opened it and selected WASD, but there's no confirm or anything. Do I just close it?

[dapper cove]

ok i'm clearly not understanding epogo lol

im slow

[haughty fossil]

are you current patch

[stiff delta]

which epogo

its like a roulette wheel at this point lmao

[strong vessel]

Just watched an al2ba run

[hearty adder]

i just minimize it because i don't understand how it works

[dapper cove]

1221

[strong vessel]

Wouldn't it be faster to get dash slash to get both shade soul and enter QG and skip crystal peak entirely

Maybe misc-runs-nmg is a better place to ask this

[hearty adder]

What happens? Do you just not manage to pogo at all? or do you not reach high enough?

[dapper cove]

when i say i record everything i mean it so i have a vid of me attempting it a couple times

[stiff delta]

that would help

[hearty adder]

If you don't manage to pogo at all you're probably jumping too soon

[stiff delta]

theres this certain pattern in the wall that i wait for it to pass

[dapper cove]

the tutorial i saw mentioned looking at the background but that doesn't work at all for me

here's a couple attempts

[stiff delta]

dash into the wall

dont jump into it

then after the dash just dont hold inputs

[dapper cove]

ok

and also ignore my singing and loud music lmao

[hearty adder]

also it's a better idea to approach the platform from the right rather than the left

[uneven pike]

also its faster to just parkour up rather than noclipping up based on how long it takes you to turn noclip on and off again

[dapper cove]

you overestimate my abilities

[maiden bane]

Were you watching a current patch run?

[dapper cove]

it's very much faster for me to noclip

[stiff delta]

then just wait, pogo, and then hold down left, pogo again, and then dash once you are over the ledge

[strong vessel]

Yes, there aren't any videos for 1221 that I can find

[stiff delta]

not to get back up there

[maiden bane]

Current Patch can't lever skip

[stiff delta]

to aggro the spore guy

[uneven pike]

if you cant parkour up then you shouldnt be attempting epogo in the first place

[strong vessel]

I know

[stiff delta]

approach them from their right

[dapper cove]

ok

[hearty adder]

that's pretty rude to say

[maiden bane]

Insomnia has a 1221 Al2ba run and I believe he does do dash slash routing

[hallow orchid]

Al2ba is traditionally run on cp as are most modern memes lol, so the qg lever skip is not possible and dash slash is useless

[dapper cove]

i can parkour up

[hallow orchid]

Yeah for 1221 it's got to be better

[dapper cove]

it's just faster to noclip

[hearty adder]

meme boards? more like cp boards 😤

[stiff delta]

elementalgamer you've been consistently rude and condescending about peoples speedrunning abilities for someone whos pb is 1 hour loadlessly

[dapper cove]

bc i messed up my save state i only needed to do it once

[hearty adder]

noclipping there is faster than using savestates anyways tbh

[dapper cove]

i never said i was smart lmao

[vital geyser]

is there a specific timing to this? i get it once every 10+ attempts

[uneven pike]

I havent submitted in a while but ok.

[dapper cove]

i'm still not getting any closer lol

[uneven pike]

imo its important for beggining runners to know how hard a speedrun trick is in comparison to their skill so that they dont waste hours

[dapper cove]

the whole look at the background thing doesn't click for me ever

[hearty adder]

i haven't thought of that, honestly I just go by feel slash as fast as possible and don't delay the jump too much or else he won't jump back before attacking

also when jumping go very slightly towards him

like just a very tiny little bit

[stiff delta]

#speedrunning message this isnt really saying how hard a trick is its just being rude lmao

[hearty adder]

helps make it more consistent to me

[stiff delta]

if someone wants to practice and get good at a trick who are you to judge them and tell them they shouldn't

[hallow orchid]

"skill" is not a universal thing in hk, and practicing any particular speedrun trick is going to make you better at it pretty quickly regardless of your general movement etc

[dapper cove]

without having speedran before i went for AS and got spike pogo and the whole skip and my parkour still sucks it just means i'm good at some things and not others

the "tricks" are easier for me bc it's a specific set of inputs at a specific time

it's less of a "use your own judgement" thing

[vital geyser]

if thats the case, then playing more runs where you dont reset might help because youll see how enemies can spawn and get used to their locations in regards to the platforming

or you can watch top runners and see what they do in diff scenarios

[dapper cove]

shhhhhh lol

i know i have a bad habit of resetting

that's why i try and have some sort of audience bc that makes me not want to reset

[hallow orchid]

I mean do whatever you're motivated to do. If that's learn skips then learn skips. If it's do runs then do runs. We're all here to have fun and chill out

[dapper cove]

yeah exactly

[hearty adder]

here's a recording of me doing it, with my (honestly kinda hard to see) input display up

[dapper cove]

in terms of counting, how long does it take until you should dash off the first platform and how long until you jump

bc the visual cues have never worked for me

[haughty fossil]

you could just watch runs and time it out, pretty sure everyone uses the visual cues

[dapper cove]

bc my first thought to get the timing down is to have a word that i say once i hit the platform and once i'm done i move that sort of thing

the visual cues are just a dead end for me personally and i know like a gut feeling/timing works well for me

[hearty adder]

you can learn the visual cues first and then start going for timing/gut feeling

[dapper cove]

i know the visual cues, it just doesn't help me personally

makes me panic

[flint flare]

also for visual cues, everyone has different reaction times/input delays etc. So they're a good starting point but you might have to adjust if they don't work before you get a feel for it

[dapper cove]

i have a very hard time watching for the visual cues

[short token]

I'm running Any% NMG on 1.4.3.2, and I've been skipping epogo because I couldn't do it, but then I see there's a new method https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYsRWyHjcmM. The first time I get it in a run I'm all excited for my big gold split but then I end up missing the mantis pogo because the mantis's aren't where they normally are for me and it's 7 seconds slower than my gold. I guess epogo doesn't save as much time as I thought lol

[hearty adder]

mantis pogo is very tricky and precise, tbh

[uneven pike]

thats cp

[stiff delta]

mantis pogo has never been done

correct that is cp

that is a cp trick

[hearty adder]

just wing it setupless ez

[stiff delta]

its an epogo designed for current patch

which they run on

[uneven pike]

id suggest 3 fireball dboost if you want to be able to consistently hit it without that much practice

[hearty adder]

epogo saves a lot of time, but if you want it to be trully significant you also have to get mantis pogo

or at least learn to do the ladder method as a backup

[stiff delta]

the double dash setup is i think the only setup, its a little precise but once you have it down its consistent

[short token]

That's my current strat 🙂 it works 50% of the time, every time

[stiff delta]

or just dont do a setup and then get mad when nothing lines up

[hearty adder]

emray has a doc that talks in detail about strats (including mantis pogo), give me a moment

Edit: here #speedrunning message

[flint flare]

my strat is to miss the double dash setup, then jump and spam pogo/dash until you either get it, die, or kill the mantises

[dapper cove]

god this is hard lmao i just can't seem to do it

[vocal dove]

i do the staircase method, it's slower but i can get it pretty consistently

[dapper cove]

i had one better attempt

[vital geyser]

theres a method where you pogo the left one then pogo the right one three times to get to the right side then dash over. idk its name i just found it a lot easier when i first started

[haughty fossil]

my strat is to completely abandon it and just pogo the adult mantis to the right twice

[stiff delta]

that was better

dash into the wall earlier tho

[dapper cove]

earlier? ok

[stiff delta]

when you dash too late the spore is too far left

and then dont hold left until after the first pogo

[vital geyser]

yo thanks i can get this a lot more consistent now

[stiff delta]

really more like as you hit the pogo start holding left, and then pogo again

[dapper cove]

as i said the visual cues don't really help me lol i just gotta get an internal clock kinda set up

i'll keep recording so i can measure better

[hearty adder]

it's just kinda hard to explain the trick with timing rather than visual cues due to how the game is

[stiff delta]

yea

[dapper cove]

i just nearly had it

[stiff delta]

eventually though you'll get it down

honestly i dont use the visual cue now

i just wait

[dapper cove]

what lemme try that again lol

nearly there but i got hit

[stiff delta]

that was really close

jump and pogo just a little earlier

[dapper cove]

ok

[hearty adder]

i think you should stand on the edge of the platform rather than the center

the timing for the dash is good

[dapper cove]

ok

[stiff delta]

i might be based but imo where you stand on the platform doesnt matter too too much

as long as you dash into the wall it should be fine

[steady lynx]

I feel like epogo is the kind of trick you struggle with until you suddenly don't

[dapper cove]

I DID IT FUCK YES

[stiff delta]

LESS GOOO

[hearty adder]

it's one of those things that you can do all the time once you finally get it, kinda like any% shade skip imo

[dapper cove]

shade skip usually takes me 1-5 tries

[steady lynx]

Or pantheon 5

[stiff delta]

ah yea pantheon 5

[dapper cove]

IT'S A BIT LONG BUT IT'S THERE

[stiff delta]

after i did it the first time i did it blindfolded

[hearty adder]

isn't there a 1221 epogo setup that has you standing further to the left once you hit the ground so you're closer to the exit?

[steady lynx]

That's the low% setup

[hearty adder]

ah, ok

[steady lynx]

Works for any% as well

[dapper cove]

i'm not going to try for the cp version just yet lmao

i want to get this more consistent

[hearty adder]

i still need to learn 2fb comfypogo tbh

[vital geyser]

isnt the 1221 explosion pogo much easier?

[hearty adder]

getting enough soul for 3fb is annoying

[dapper cove]

yeah 1221 is way easier

[steady lynx]

I need to learn comfypogo at all

[hearty adder]

Yeah, mostly because you can actually pogo the explosion lol

cp is spore only

[vital geyser]

comfy pogo 3 fb is really lenient from what ive tried. but i cant get 2fb to work consistently. i think im getting my first fb late

[hearty adder]

if you already do vsyncpogo i imagine it's faster than comfypogo anyways

[vital geyser]

depending on how fast you menu, its probably the same as 2fb comfypogo

[dapper cove]

and now I can't do it again lol

[hearty adder]

could be the excitement making you subconsciously trying to rush it

i know that happens to me a lot

[dapper cove]

yeah

i keep jumping too early now

[hearty adder]

at least for console it should be faster, but yeah it's probably about the same on pc

[dapper cove]

and i just got it lol

[hearty adder]

assuming you have a 60Hz monitor to start with

[vital geyser]

wait do you not have to change to vsync if your monitor is 60hz?

i thought you still had to

[vital geyser]

gj!

[dapper cove]

thanks!

[hearty adder]

i mean that having a monitor higher than 60Hz is gonna make vsyncpogo harder anyways

you do have to change to vsync with a 60Hz monitor

[vital geyser]

oh ok. mine is 59hz >:)

[molten aurora]

You can always change your refresh rate if it's higher.

[hearty adder]

having to manually change your refresh rate sucks though

pc vsyncpogo is cursed

[vital geyser]

are you playing without game audio? it might help to hear the spore sounds if you arent using visual cues

[dapper cove]

no they're on

[vital geyser]

oh ok

[molten aurora]

It takes like 10 seconds ?

[limpid ruin]

If you want a really good tutorial, muri made one for normie epogo in resources long back, I think he added it to #strats as well

[dapper cove]

yeah i saw it

[limpid ruin]

It honestly saved my mind when learning it

[dapper cove]

the visual cues don't help me at all

[limpid ruin]

Yea fair. The visual cues are really weh imo

Are you completely unable to use visual cues, or are they just not clear enough for you?

(both are fair af)

[dapper cove]

the first one i kinda get but the second i don't get at all

even then i have adhd so i hyperfocus on just the spore and my character and lose sight of everything else

i got it one last time though but now i gotta go

[livid heron]

hey, asking for a friend, what does it take to get a new category extension on Speedrun.com

[knotty vigil]

Up to the mods. A general rule is that 3 people have to have completed runs and there would be enough general interest that it wouldn't fizzle out immediately after it got added

[hearty adder]

You can also check #misc-runs-nmg / #misc-runs to make sure the idea you have isn't already being run

[jagged vault]

(for meme boards)

[livid heron]

yeah meme boards

[knotty vigil]

Generally category extensions that have been added have been based on showing off an interesting trick/area that isn't done in other runs rather than having an interesting goal to the run

[hallow orchid]

I think the ~3 runners thing is not really guaranteed now that the community has gotten bigger. The biggest thing they are looking to avoid is dead boards

[hearty adder]

official hiveblood% board when

[livid heron]

thats fair, ty. I was just looking through the live split auto splits and thinking of fun quick runs, with optimized movement over doing anything supper impressive

^
|

[hallow orchid]

Check the pinned spreadsheet in #misc-runs-nmg , there's a ton of great runs on there

[hearty adder]

what did you have in mind? if it already exists, we could point you towards route notes and stuff

[livid heron]

idk, ive liked doing Aluba% because its beat the 3 easy bosses and then move optimally through green path and crossroads. anymore category like that?

[hearty adder]

4 mask shards has you doing movement across Forgotten Crossroads

you fight Brooding Mawlek and Gruz Mother

[hallow orchid]

You may enjoy myla% if you want something a bit longer. Not boss heavy but very early game movement focused

[jagged vault]

elderbug% is comfy as well

[hearty adder]

Great Hopper% is interesting

[jagged vault]

just sanctum BS and a bit of flower quest

[uneven pike]

you could try happycouple% because theres a bounty by the end of tommorow

[livid heron]

Woah, haha thank you for all the suggestions ive never though about some of the runs that way. Ill look into a few thank you

[hallow orchid]

Yeah definitely recommend once again the pinned spreadsheet. There is a landing page with recommendations, route notes for most of the categories there and links to runs to check out yourself if you're interested

We always welcome more meme runners

[stark birch]

hi yes I heard more meme runners

[livid heron]

[hallow orchid]

lol quack I was debating pinging you

[stark birch]

it's the thought that counts, recommending the spreadsheet is all I ever do what's important lol

[hearty adder]

If you want something a bit harder though, Hiveblood% has you doing wingless Hive and fighting Hive Knight with nail0, vengeful spirit, soulcatcher and also sporeshroom if you want

[haughty fossil]

quack actually automatically gets pinged whenever the misc runs nmg channel is linked

[livid heron]

that sounds like hell and thats what i like, hell yeah

[hearty adder]

More meme runners

[haughty fossil]

spelless

[stark birch]

spelless te

also more relevant to the conversation, but hiveblood is just a more recent (and current patch-locked) incarnation of zote%, which has you doing colo 1 with the same scuffed loadout. Both are great masochistic runs, but zote is a little more endurance testing as well because, y'know, colo.

but also run hiveblood I want an official board please

[flat condor]

anyone got tips for any% watcher knights

[livid heron]

Im going to get the worst Hiveblood run on the soon to be board out of spite, just so it becomes a category

[livid heron]

also sorry no couldnt help you, i suck at it too

[flat condor]

can i post a video somewhere to get criticism on my gameplay?

[formal violet]

which mods are allowed for 4ms?

or none?

[digital jewel]

ruttie

[fair island]

This Option

[digital jewel]

you can read the rules on speedrun.com

[formal violet]

oh ok

[vital geyser]

eternal emilitia% when

[stark birch]

that's just myla% with a different last step basically, but it is hard carried by the fact that it is emilitia

[flat condor]

oh

[uneven pike]

mods are not allowed

and if the title screen has the thing on it that says you have modloader installed

[molten aurora]

What about a "perfect nail" run, so pure nail and woke dnail? Idk how similar that would be to existing runs.

[uneven pike]

even if you have no mods

you wont get it accepted anyways

[stark birch]

that is literally just two runs stapled together, purity and TE (ok minus having to kill radiance)

[mild moon]

Actually, it would not be myla%, since it wouldn't need Crystal Heart.

[stark birch]

and given that purity has a hefty grub requirement associated with it you're basically just doing a 1xx run at that point

oh right you're not going all the way to isma's you can shade skip can't you

[mild moon]

You can shade skip either way, the difference is in whether you have to kill Dung Defender.

[stark birch]

look intended isma's route only exists in DAB and only because of the new goals it's not real in a speedrun context

[flat condor]

any criticism, i can't survive for a second when the gangbanging starts

[uneven pike]

"gangbanging"

[haughty fossil]

don't keep doing the first knight strat when the 2 knights phase starts unless you're really comfortable with shifting in and out of it

[flat condor]

oh, ok

[haughty fossil]

have you watched fire's tutorial video on the fight?

[flat condor]

yea

[stark birch]

less a specific tech things but the end of the first fight leads me to believe that you've been at this fight for a while and it's frustrating; that's a classic pattern of get hit, fail to recalibrate/recenter, dash into the enemy/flub movement and get hit again, repeat until dead

the tutorials for this game do a very good job of showcasing a fight gone well and some common backups, but while you're starting out (and obviously in general) the biggest most avoidable timeloss is death, so don't be afraid to take relatively large swaths of time to focus on not getting hit

as you get better at the fight, you will get an intuitive sense of the threshold at which two fast attempts at a boss in a run will be faster than one slow attempt at a boss in a run

and before too long you're at the point where you just don't die or reset a bunch because let's face it any% watcher knights suuuuuuuuck

[flat condor]

yeah i'll take it calmer, thanks for the help :)

[stark birch]

and like obviously there is also value to throwing yourself at bosses to get no-reset runs down, that's also good practice, but if you're tilting out of your mind doing it then you're doing yourself no favors in either the short or the long term 🙂

If you haven't tried out just shadowboxing them -- staying in the fight against two knights damageless as long as possible without actually fighting back -- that's something that helped me get good at the fight when I was learning it at first. Maybe not universal, but my primary game before HK was Smash, so it helped me a ton

[flat condor]

i'll try it

[stark birch]

(also note that that applies much more to any% wk than a number of other bosses in other categories, there are lots of circumstances in this game where you should just start out learning how to roflstomp damage in their faces, your health be damned, see uumuu, but this whole advice is ymmv anyway so idk)

[flat condor]

thanks again, i really appreciate the help

[stark birch]

and of course if you get sick of any% wk you could always try spelless wk

[steady lynx]

Or All Skills

[dapper cove]

i think they meant spelless is more difficult than any% wk lmao

[stark birch]

no that's far too sane of a recommendation

[dapper cove]

how about low%

[stark birch]

low% also a good time

[dapper cove]

yes yes

[steady lynx]

low% spelless WK

[grizzled maple]

Please get help

[stark birch]

emray run spelless TE but for real this time

[dapper cove]

lmao

[grizzled maple]

maybe

[steady lynx]

Spelless TE sounds like the opposite of fun ngl

[stark birch]

I thought it was gonna be that and then I started to do it yesterday and it's actually pretty fun?!? disclaimer I already am comfy enough at longnail baldurs that it doesn't lock me out of the category

also I haven't actually done spelless TL or Rad yet

but so far I've been kinda surprised ngl

[grizzled maple]

they probably aren't too bad. both of those bosses are largely nail only in panth runs (i know qs probably helps)

they're easily maneuverable though

[steady lynx]

Just have Fury for both

Should kill them fast

[grizzled maple]

radiance is mostly knowing your options and when to pogo and when to use wings

[last inlet]

tbh i wouldnt be surprised if getting like strength or qs is actually optimal for spelless te

since theres quite a lot of bosses

[stark birch]

strength is in my route and qs is divelocked and so impossible

[last inlet]

oh yeah true

[steady lynx]

Maybe even nail2 or nail3

[last inlet]

and i didnt know abt strength so thanks

[stark birch]

in theorizing, nail 2 seems likely the right balance of damage + comfort; I'm gonna be getting nail 3 at first because I am a baby re: failed champ and radiance

[last inlet]

ooh failed champ spelless sounds rough

[steady lynx]

Main issue with nail3 is which will be the last pale ore

Basin and Seer are easy

[stark birch]

crown is the best 3rd and it's not close

[last inlet]

yeah seer you literally get for free

[grizzled maple]

you'd probably need it cdash visit

[steady lynx]

Before you get cdash?

[stark birch]

as of rn, yes

[grizzled maple]

its possible just ass

[stark birch]

wait I just finished typing my route one sec

[hallow orchid]

Not getting 31 grubs

[stark birch]

https://pastebin.com/bKx7eWsX this is what I'm doing at first; the easiest and first optimization is to just nail 3n't

[steady lynx]

Not fighting Nosk either

[hallow orchid]

Yeah I would think nail2 strikes the right balance

[steady lynx]

Where's the 6th pale ore again?

Colo?

[hallow orchid]

Nail2 strength is still a lot of damage

Colo 2 yes

[steady lynx]

Yeah, do nail only colo 2

Trust me, I run 112

I just have no idea where anything is

[last inlet]

sounds pretty simple

only a small timeloss from doing 2 whole colos with nail 2 only /s

[grizzled maple]

see the biggest issue with that is that you're looking at a 7 minute + time investment for damage that will save seconds

colo is not possible to be worth in any route idea

[hallow orchid]

I assumed that was sarcasm

[steady lynx]

Yeah, then crown is best

[hallow orchid]

Crown is the clear choice

[last inlet]

oh yeah i forgot to /s

[steady lynx]

That's like, a minute detour?

[hallow orchid]

Yeah something like that

[grizzled maple]

i still think the future of this category lies in fury and only 1 nail upgrade

[stark birch]

the clear choice is to just get nail 2 but first I need to make sure I can do that deathless

[hallow orchid]

You don't think seer ore for nail2 will be worth em?

[steady lynx]

You should stream it

[stark birch]

I think fury nail 1 is spelless any%'s endgame, TE gets nail 2 I think

[steady lynx]

So we can put points to P5 boss order

[grizzled maple]

oh right TE probably can get it

fury though... there's no reason not to. it makes 2 cycle uumuu possible

[hallow orchid]

Yeah I think because it's literally free it makes sense to go for

The trick is you need 300 essence pretty early but quacks route does that rn

Fury strength overcharm

[stark birch]

just get thorns of agony while you're wandering through greenpath and backtrack across blue lake to get a sally notch ez

[hallow orchid]

Sounds reasonable yep

But I mean if you're going fury no reason not to overcharm

[mild stratus]

what am i standing on here? I have ddark already and am trying to debug softlocks for NG+ nonsense. If you have dive does it put up a dome over it or something?

[stiff delta]

wtf lmao

[mild stratus]

its like a smooth dome over the breakable floor

[grizzled maple]

lmao

[mild stratus]

ok. so i took away ddark in debug and now its gone. team cherry WHYYY

i just want cool NG+ things

[grizzled maple]

is it okay with just dive??

or do you have to take away the skill entirely?

[mild stratus]

entirely. its present with dive too

if you have cloak, hornet softlocks, but at least you can s+q out of that.

[low bramble]

as long as you have dive that floor will be there

[mild stratus]

im trying to think how many bosses are just unreachable. NG+ works fine for any%, but anything else runs into a LOT of issues

[grizzled maple]

at least with most of the ideas we had for NG+ runs you don't need to fight progression bosses

like elegy or happy couple

[mild stratus]

yeah. ive been playing with different NG+ starts. I wanted to start like godseeker mode does for some consistency but lots of issues there

[hallow orchid]

This was brought up yesterday or the day before, theres a triangle dome that gets added when you have dive

[mild stratus]

also fwiw em, the file you posted is bugged for grimm. child level is set to 0, needs to be 1 at the start

[grizzled maple]

oh whoops

i didnt know what it started at tbh

[mild stratus]

big same. ive been on and off debugging stuff for a few days. at some point when i have files im happy with ill post some variants

right now im playing with your settings, godseeker settings, and all skills only

[digital jewel]

yes there's a dome over the bottom area

an invis ceiling

[mild stratus]

so elegy is impossible in NG+ if you have dive. lovely. didnt think about the grub but thats a bummer

[digital jewel]

oh yeah

(just oob )

[grizzled maple]

So you're saying we might have to make specific NG+ edited files for each run

Just excluding things that break things in each category

[mild stratus]

basically. at least with your settings nail/mask/VF related things are ok.

godseeker style i had to do some shenanigans to not softlock in seer on accident

[grizzled maple]

If you all can work out the parameters of what each category needs I'm happy to edit the files and stick them in a document somewhere with all the details listed

I just don't feel like working it out myself

[dark blaze]

How would you get the grub in sanctum then? Is there another way

[grizzled maple]

i didnt think that far hunt

[dark blaze]

Oh

[grizzled maple]

im half asleep lol

[dark blaze]

🥴

[grizzled maple]

yeah i realized what they meant later

so what happens if grimmchild is set to 0? does it just not spawn??

[mild stratus]

you can get child, but none of the flames spawn

[grizzled maple]

i see

[flat condor]

also am i just really bad or is the mantis pogo really hard

i can't get it done even once

[stiff delta]

its tough

[grizzled maple]

which patch are you on and which kind are you going for?

there's nearly countless versions of this trick so a little info can help us help you

[flat condor]

Double dash from fireb0rn's video

[grizzled maple]

oh i'm blind

you said mantis pogo

okay i'll get my guide

[short token]

<@&284848710960021504> can I have the speedrunner role please? Here's one of my verified runs: https://www.speedrun.com/hollowknight/run/y4eewedm

[grizzled maple]

Okay so basically everything you do in this trick is specific. Messing up any of the steps means they will not be properly manipped

Double Dash: Try to collect enough soul from enemies in the next room for one fireball at least. As you’re falling into the room, hug the left wall and dash as high as you can. This manipulates the position of the right mantis. Once you’re on the ground take a baby step before casting your fireball, then dash. After the dash, upslash the mantis. Hit the lever and dash back immediately. Pogo the left mantis, then dash right and pogo the right one. It sounds a lot more difficult than it is, but their movement is 100% consistent so it’s easy to figure out your mistakes.

https://youtu.be/83L1biEr1UM

Triple Mantis Pogo: You’ll have to do this version if you come in from the right. You’ll essentially want to manipulate them into making a nice staircase. They can bounce off of each other so it can be pretty difficult. Good incentive to learn explosion pogo and double dash.

https://youtu.be/PiTUHk3Hxhs

[flat condor]

is it even worth it when im just starting out?

[grizzled maple]

if you're coming from the top, yes double dash is 100% worth learning

it's extremely consistent. so much so that seeing how they move once you fail tells you what you messed up

just gotta learn it

[flat condor]

so i'll just keep practising until i get it

[grizzled maple]

read over everything I just posted and it should cover everything you need. If you're still having trouble, try recording and we can troubleshoot where the mistake is

[flat condor]

will do, thanks

[hot latch]

(Mantis pogo is the lil skip for mantis claws right? I need to practice that one at some point)

[slim geyser]

done

[mild stratus]

NG+ speedtech, the KP door hitbox doesnt go all the way up? you can just jump over it?

[hallow orchid]

on 1221 you can, on cp that's patched

[mild stratus]

🍝

[wintry phoenix]

is there a speedrunning faq that i can look at? i have a few questions about speedrunning

[last inlet]

[wintry phoenix]

thanks

do I need a steam version of the game or can I do it drm free?

[snow dome]

You need to buy the game

I believe GoG is DRM free

[leaden python]

drm free is perfectly fine as long as you bought it

yeah gog is drm free

[wintry phoenix]

ty

[vital geyser]

isnt there a chance the left one quick attacks?

[grizzled maple]

If that happens you were late

[leaden python]

there is like a tiny chance that the right one attacks right as you about to pogo him. It's quite rare tho

I would say the setup is like 98% consistent, and if the right guy attacks immediately you just have to back it up. Fire shows multiple possible backups in his tutorial

just pick whatever or yolo something

[molten aurora]

Well this is new, never had the game crash in ~300 hours

[dapper cove]

Gg

[molten aurora]

It happened again, in the exact same place

That's kind of concerning.

[fair island]

What does the crash report say

[molten aurora]

I've never really known what to look for in a crash report, so I have no idea

[hot latch]

Where did it crash?

[molten aurora]

The first pogo of mantis pogo, both times. I was practicing the full claw split.

[hot latch]

Oh dang, Can't say i've ever heard about mantis pogo being a problematic spot

[molten aurora]

Yeah, a bit of a weird place. I'll try restarting my PC and if it comes down to it, I'll reinstall.

[elfin vortex]

Could someone tell me what underplats are? Seen the term pop up a few times

If thats what theyre called

[grizzled maple]

Literally going under a platform instead of over. There's a lot of them in a lot of places, but the most notable is the last platform of the cheart room cycle which saves .2 seconds

some don't really even save time and are just for swag

[elfin vortex]

Ah

I need to improve my peak time so ig I'll use underplat in cheart room

[grizzled maple]

You die if you mess up at 2 health, so I would keep that in mind, but yeah worth learning for sure

[elfin vortex]

Anything to save time lol. Is it a good idea to practise individual sects of a run repeatedly to learn how to get good at every area btw or no?

[grizzled maple]

yep thats why we have save states

[elfin vortex]

I need debug for that right?

[grizzled maple]

whatever you feel like needs grinding just grind it. just make sure you save state outside the room so that the cycles are as if you entered

yeah

[elfin vortex]

Everything past early game lol. Submitting a satisfactory 112 will take time ig

[grizzled maple]

Honestly for long runs like that i really recommend just practicing things that you could die to and just doing a ton of runs

That's my main category and I've gotten the times I have by literally mashing my face into it until I got good lmao

Especially panths

The reality is that you're gonna mess up a lot for a long time especially when you're doing a category that covers that much ground. Trying to make sure every segment is good before ever doing real runs is just going to wear you out while not keeping consistency on things you have mastered already

I hope that makes sense

[elfin vortex]

Hmm yh thats a rlly good point tbh

Hmm then I may practise an area for a bit then try do a run and repeat?

[grizzled maple]

What I used to do was just do a no reset, then go back and make a list of things I died to or lost a lot of time to, and only practiced those. The list changes every few weeks because you're practicing those things and rotating new ones in. That'll help you slowly build up some consistency.

Things I always would practice are P5, WP, and colos just because they're always brutal forever lol

[elfin vortex]

Wow thats actually a rlly good idea. Need work on playing the same with FotF and not taking stupid dmg. Whats an average time for someone learning 112?

[grizzled maple]

A good first goal would maybe be around a 4:30-5h, sub 4 is really good when you're starting out. That was the first achievement I was really excited about hitting.

I would also say that's the point where you need to really start looking at your movement compared to the top runners.

[elfin vortex]

Mhm ok. I need to try complete a run without dying so maybe i'll get a 4:30ish time. I heavily compared some areas which made those areas good so evidently I need to do the same for my weaker areas

Thx for all the help btw it was rlly useful

[grizzled maple]

Yeah np. You can always reach out to me about more specific questions if you ever have them

[zealous pollen]

Is farming birds in greenpath for essence actually fastest?
Bc mowing down pink worm growth with crystal dash in sewers right beside flukemarm seems even faster

[grizzled maple]

For what specifically?

If you mean low% TE you cannot do that because it requires dive to access which is not allowed

[zealous pollen]

No abilities, right, understandable

[somber cedar]

kinda pb'd, still bad

included a 36s gold herrah for some reason

[naive nova]

First actual attempt at a speed run, not great but it's a better baseline than I was expecting lol.

Literally learned dark deepnest yesterday and cp epogo and mantis pogo 2 days ago

[unkempt olive]

is 21:9 screen ratio okay for speedrunning 1.2.2.1 any%?

[short spire]

don't you need to modify the game files for that to work properly?

[unkempt olive]

oh, so if i dont, and it just runs in 16:9 and i have livesplit filling up the rest of the screen space, is that okay?

[digital jewel]

what do you mean?

[unkempt olive]

like this

[digital jewel]

what you see on your monitor isn't really important to us

what recording software do you use

[unkempt olive]

i know

but the video ratio of hollow knight application itself

[digital jewel]

your hk looks 16:9 to me

[unkempt olive]

ok

good

thanks

[digital jewel]

ok I'm confused what the question was now

[neon island]

Do you mean if it is fine if your HK application is 21:9?

[unkempt olive]

yes

[dapper cove]

I got epogo first try on stream I'm proud

[feral pawn]

Hi hello hey, new face here. Uhh question - After being a dunce and doing a run of this game to beat it in under 5 hours only to realize that achievement is for Steam not PS4 (The platform I play on currently lmao) I kinda grew curiosity as to giving this game more of a try with regards to speedrunning it, but not sure how the best way would be to go about starting said journey

[low bramble]

the pins here answer a lot of questions, and a lot of new runners either start with any% or all skills

[grizzled maple]

Pins have a lot of info

[molten aurora]

Hi there new face

[low bramble]

also downpatching is one of the first things as well

[feral pawn]

I'd be doing current patch on PS4

[grizzled maple]

Also as a console runner, I highly recommend watching the Switch runs as a point of reference on routing and such

[stiff delta]

i agree with this

[low bramble]

oh wait u said that my b

[grizzled maple]

It's just been run the most, and by a few higher level runners than the other consoles

[feral pawn]

Do PC and Console runs have major differences, even on current patch?

[stiff delta]

not really

[grizzled maple]

Yep in some cases

[stiff delta]

just that console is worse

imo

[grizzled maple]

Guys please lmao

routing changes when a category gets dgate

[stiff delta]

alright tbf emray knows infinitely more than me im leaving it to them

[grizzled maple]

dgates are often faster than a save quit because of the rta timing

also some save quits that pc current patch does are not worth for the same reason

which is why i recommend watching both PC current patch runs of the category you wanna learn beside the switch version

[feral pawn]

PC and Console have different routes? Interesting

[grizzled maple]

It's mostly just when to sq, or where to place dgates

Any% won't have much changed for example

[low bramble]

yes because pc is timed loadless while console is timed with loads

[grizzled maple]

There's also a brand new fancy spore shroom route for people who don't do QGA so there's that too

I think mathulu does that in the new console wr right?

[low bramble]

yea i believe so

[steady lynx]

Console 112 route is messy, still trying to figure out if KP like PC is faster or whatever I've been doing is faster

[feral pawn]

But anyway yeah, I'd be starting with any% more than likely on console

[steady lynx]

For any% at least for a start check mathulu's run on src

It uses the easier Spore Shroom route

[feral pawn]

Interestingly enough part of the reason for wanting to do it (Besides love for the game) is hearing a friend may potentially be interested in doing it as well if I start doing it

[grizzled maple]

learning with a friend is a good time

[stiff delta]

when i was just starting out i asked my friend if he wanted to race and he said "no, speedrunning is nerd shit"

good guy

[steady lynx]

Before I started I had a friend who talked about doing runs on console and I was like "Yeah, I've seen the movement in Hollow Knight, looks cool" so I started learning it and he never did runs

[grizzled maple]

I just got curious and went look at my facebook history and 3 people reacted to my GDQ run post, and none on any other events i posted about doing

I would give anything for irl speedrun loving friends

[feral pawn]

Thankfully with the friend in question I know they've done speedruns of other games in the past. They used to run Metroid Fusion for awhile but eventually lost interest, and they used to run a couple Resident Evil games with one of their friends

[steady lynx]

Honestly emray, I really want 106 to get into GDQ, would be a cool showcase of one of the longer categories

[snow dome]

I would give anything for irl speedrun loving friends

[grizzled maple]

same @ tami and gusten both

[snow dome]

😭

[steady lynx]

And we can get some #shoptimization into GDQ

[stiff delta]

time to get 4ms into gdq

best category

[feral pawn]

Since my friend and I both have Hollow Knight on PS4, I figured it'd make the most sense if I were to do it, that we both do it on same console

[steady lynx]

Get a KP IL into GDQ

[feral pawn]

They don't have a gaming pc or laptop they use

[steady lynx]

51 second run

[stiff delta]

unironically i would submit it but you have to be over 18 to submit

sadge

[dapper cove]

sadge indeed

we can put it under my name ;)

[steady lynx]

Submitting Menderbug% for GDQ like "Yeah, it can take two minutes, it can also take twenty minutes, who knows"

[craggy pebble]

:)

[feral pawn]

Uh that being said, for starting out when looking at console runs, should I be worried about attempting to do skips and such or should I start out doing slower routes and work my way up?

[dapper cove]

just start with the slower routes if you want

[grizzled maple]

We all know PoH is the one that's getting in so that the first time I ever choke the run will be in front of literally 100k people

[steady lynx]

Honestly, main skip in any% you can route around is epogo

[dapper cove]

my mentality was if it was a "major time save" i learnt the skip first

[steady lynx]

And I'd recommend learning epogo sooner rather than later

[stiff delta]

epogo cool do epogo

[craggy pebble]

do slower ones 1st

[low bramble]

expect a challenge at watcher knights, and you can go around epogo, and you definitely dont have to do qga with spore shroom now

[dapper cove]

yeah epogo and then just use the squid in greenpath instead of doing fb skip

[feral pawn]

What is epogo exactly, or specifically, the E in that term

[dapper cove]

explosion pogo

[craggy pebble]

no epogo hard on cp, its better to start slow

[steady lynx]

explosion pogo

[grizzled maple]

Honestly whatever is comfortable to you.

[stiff delta]

qga has so much drip and swag but if you are just starting out spore shroom route is basically guaranteed to be faster

[craggy pebble]

explosion pogo

[steady lynx]

snail me

[feral pawn]

The only pogo I've done is the one to watcher knights

[dapper cove]

but even then epogo only saves like 30 seconds so for starting out I don't think it's necessary

[hot latch]

Hey y'all quick question, Are there any differences between thk fight on 1221 and cp? (other than spore shroom )

[grizzled maple]

So here's my real advice. Look into the run, ask questions here, give every idea a fair shot. Then decide what you think you're capable of based on your experience.

[stiff delta]

yea if something is too hard or unfun to practice just dont do it

[dapper cove]

i only just started learning it today and I've been running for a couple weeks now

[steady lynx]

Start by watching mathulu's switch any% PB and see what he does

[grizzled maple]

Some people can just do epogo but suck at QGA and vice versa. Maybe the knight guarding spire will ruin your night more than watchers themselves. You don't really know until you do it.

[dapper cove]

i will also say as i've begun my last place tour i've noticed i've gotten a lot better naturally at simple things like shade skip

[low bramble]

the thk fight is a lot faster and the pillar does double damage on cp

[dapper cove]

which btw you will want to learn shade skip

[steady lynx]

For console any% there are two viable routes, one is harder but the other is slower

[dapper cove]

but it's not difficult at all

[stiff delta]

starting out bosses will probably be the biggest roadblock honestly

[low bramble]

more difficult fight in general

[stiff delta]

ik when i started watchers and thk kicked my ass relentlessly

[dapper cove]

for me it was wk and uumuu

[hot latch]

thank you! what do you mean by pillar though?

[stiff delta]

uumuu too

[dapper cove]

bc not having isma and trying uumuu was rough for me

[steady lynx]

Honestly, in any% I've had more issues getting good Uumuu fights

A 3 cycle off of WR

[stiff delta]

that big flame pillar thing where he slams into the ground

[low bramble]

the one where he slams down and the pillars come out of the ground

[stiff delta]

get beat

[dapper cove]

^^

[stiff delta]

again

[low bramble]

tk the superior speedtyper

[dapper cove]

yes

[hot latch]

That doesn't do double on 1221? oh heck they havin fun over there

[dapper cove]

no snails here

[stiff delta]

jamies done it to me too many times

i had to practice