speedrunning

[knotty vigil]

what runs are done on cp?

[true palm]

it'd make my heart happy

[knotty vigil]

why?

[true palm]

because any% ss does spore shroom optimally

[knotty vigil]

what do you even do to get dream nail?

[true palm]

and i want any% ss to stand for any% spore shroom and not any% steel soul

[normal aspen]

That's still slower tbh

[true palm]

darknest, unfortunately

[normal aspen]

Lever skip moment

[true palm]

for cp no, we already go there

its still slower than 1221

[haughty fossil]

any% steel soul sucks tho 😤 low fat low%

[true palm]

low% cp is cursed

[knotty vigil]

what cat do you run jamie?

just want some suggestions

[true palm]

but low% cp records basically free so

[haughty fossil]

mainly any% and all skills cp, plus some meme categories i'm learning on the side

[strong vessel]

Does low% cp require dashless current patch explosion pogo

[true palm]

optimally yes

but wr does a shadeskip

[strong vessel]

That makes sense

[haughty fossil]

a new wr could also do the fireball skip to the right of mantis village

[true palm]

doing the dashless cp epogo would save around 3 minutes

[strong vessel]

You can do a fireball skip there?

[true palm]

yup

but its cursed

[strong vessel]

Huh

[true palm]

and way harder than the epogo

[haughty fossil]

is it? damn

[knotty vigil]

how long is all skills run cp?

[true palm]

the only person i know who got it with any consistency was insomnia

[haughty fossil]

any speedrun.com/hollowknight

[normal aspen]

Yeah I meant overall, cp it's better but like cp

[haughty fossil]

somni has gamer turnarounds by default

[normal aspen]

Low% cp would do fb only epogo

[haughty fossil]

got mag skip without socd cleaner 🥴

[normal aspen]

It's even faster than the fb skip into mv

[knotty vigil]

i meant like whats an average run of cp all skills?

[true palm]

over an hour

[knotty vigil]

or does it say that somewhere

[haughty fossil]

depends how long you've put into the category

[normal aspen]

1:05 Or so is decent, sub hour is good, 57 or better is like top player in the cat

[haughty fossil]

below 2 hours RTA is a good estimate for a first run w/ some practice on bosses (most notably hornet 2)

[normal aspen]

But yeah if it's it first run anything is fine

[knotty vigil]

oh god... hornet 2

didn't think about that

[haughty fossil]

and that's the reason for practice

[true palm]

with a 48 any%, if you put the same time into it as you did any% id guess around 1:10/1:15 for a first run

would vary with practice obviously

[haughty fossil]

my first cp as run was 1:24:xx and i have sub 40 any% cp 🥴

[knotty vigil]

are you saying 48 any% cp is good or bad haha

[true palm]

i mean wasnt the route different/less optimized

[haughty fossil]

then again i did literally 0 preparation and went to great slash twice

it was like 20s slower at that point i think

[true palm]

and i was assuming that thered be practice

[haughty fossil]

pre mossyPet era cp all skills wasn't the same

[hazy birch]

not to derail too much, but what did the route do for dash slash geo pre-MMC?

[true palm]

48 any% cp is decent for speedrunning the game for a week, but theres lots of room for improvement

[knotty vigil]

yeah

[haughty fossil]

iirc it started with a big lemm sell, then a small lemm sell, then mossy boi got introduced and we all went "lemm 🦀 "

[true palm]

top runners drop thousands of hours into this game, so its not super fair to compare yourself to their pbs

[knotty vigil]

yeah that makes sense

[haughty fossil]

(hours don't mean everything, i have a lot more hours than some much better runners than me purely because my hours weren't in focused practice like some others)

[true palm]

hours dont mean everything, and you can get good times without it

[knotty vigil]

yeah

[grizzled maple]

Zeno and I are the same skill level in 112 and he as like 1k, I have nearly 3k

I just did a lot more rando and challenge runs

[haughty fossil]

any 70% of playtime in rando

[knotty vigil]

cp all skills is a much smaller category than i thought

[dapper cove]

I have very very few hours but at the same time I’m not aiming for records I’m aiming for last place

[true palm]

i have a lot of skill in low% specifically, and have less hours, but thats because it was a barely ran cat for instance

[dapper cove]

I’m playing the role of the hero nobody knew they needed lmao

[grizzled maple]

cp all skills is such a new category that if it were a human baby we would be seeing it learn to sit up for the first time

[haughty fossil]

correct, cp all skills only got a board quite recently, and lots of people don't run because it's kind of eh compared to the novelty of 1221 as

[true palm]

it suffers greatly, because the major part of 1221 routing involves a dash slash lever skip that was patched

[dapper cove]

Just know that not everyone starts at the same place, and not everyone puts in the same amount of hours

[grizzled maple]

it was only routed at all for console by myself, and it was largely based on the 112 route

it's been improved a lot since then

[knotty vigil]

what's different between all skills cp and all skills 1221. is it the same difference between cp any% and any %

[grizzled maple]

but still very baby

its dramatically different

[haughty fossil]

its a completely different run tbh

[true palm]

dash slash shade soul lever skip sequence breaks pretty significantly relative to whats possible without it

[dapper cove]

It’s especially prevalent when getting shade soul

[grizzled maple]

1221 all skills is the single category that uses the most levers skips in all of hk

[dapper cove]

And you can’t do level skips

Lever*

[normal aspen]

Cp as went Lemm lemmnt lemmish mossypet

[knotty vigil]

but is that the only difference really?

[true palm]

it has the most variance between 1221 and cp, of any major category, 1xx is more similar from what ive seen

[normal aspen]

It's prob the most different cat from 1231 to cp

[knotty vigil]

and are there many guides for any% cp? i wanna know the route

[normal aspen]

Vali PB has it

B8t that's abo7t it

[hazy birch]

i just used emray's pastebin route and watched runs, i don't think there's a pisces-esque tutorial or anything

nm you said any%

[normal aspen]

Oh anh%

[true palm]

theres different routes, but the most popular ones this https://pastebin.com/DV4SyNbp

[knotty vigil]

whoops

[normal aspen]

Jamie ppt

[haughty fossil]

there is no detailed guide as its pretty new and nobody cares about it

[knotty vigil]

meant cp all skills sorry

[haughty fossil]

any% cp i have my powerpoint which is bad and still needs remaking

[hazy birch]

i care jamie, i care

[knotty vigil]

i think i used that a lot

that was my main way of learnign the route

[haughty fossil]

im in winners bracket of the tourney and i still don't care about the category, i just want to be free already

[knotty vigil]

unless there's another any% cp slideshow

[haughty fossil]

nah that one's mine

[knotty vigil]

it was pretty good though

[haughty fossil]

somebody bully me after im released from the tourney to remake the any% cp guide btw since i will need a bit of a break before getting back into runs 🥴

[knotty vigil]

also in my run i had a weird glitch where i opened the menu too fast after benching and it didn't show my menu but showed the charm i had equiped

im assuming that's fine right?

[knotty vigil]

i know but i always wanna make sure just for peace of mind

[true palm]

i know you said that you didnt really like meme cats but another one that came to mind was nkg%, which is run on cp

its a little shorter than all skills (optimally) and is pretty neat (but tough)

[knotty vigil]

hmm

maybe

[haughty fossil]

isn't nkg% only run on cp because the entire meme cat community is cp right now

[true palm]

pretty sure its optimal for the hive

[hazy birch]

balloon vulnerability on cp makes it optimal i think

[true palm]

all i know is its optimal

[haughty fossil]

balloon vuln makes sense
how is hive faster on cp though

[true palm]

you go through without wings and dont oneshot bees

[haughty fossil]

also doubt balloon vuln would make up the rest of the timesave 1221 gets you

[true palm]

or am i getting it backwards?

[haughty fossil]

oh i guess you dont oneshot bees

could still be technically possible w/ a shadeskip ig but that's incredibly cursed, carry on

[true palm]

point is its a pretty alpha category

[knotty vigil]

imma go upload my run to yt and then to src

[dapper cove]

i want to learn more cats but i have more pressing things atm

maybe once schoolwork slows down i can do that stuff on my spare time

[knotty vigil]

is there a way to take down a previous unverified run so the verifiers don't accidentally watch both or something?

[haughty fossil]

we check to only watch the most recent

[knotty vigil]

oh

[hearty adder]

I know grimm balloons and more sturdy little bees were already mentioned, but also you can hit crystal guardian while he sleeps

[haughty fossil]

if you do need to edit or delete a run though, you can do it by clicking the hourglass on the top ribbon, go to "View All", then clicking the run in question on that screen

[knotty vigil]

ok

[hearty adder]

Once I'm at a time I'm ok with on nkg% cp I'll probably try running it on 1221 to see the differences

I can't guarantee my laptop can handle 1221 nkg fight though

[knotty vigil]

i just wanted to say thank you all so much for the help in speedrunning! i never thought i'd be an actual speedrunner but it's something i'd always wanted to try

you all have been very supportive and nice

[dapper cove]

:)

[flint flare]

Hi everyone I just finished my first speedrun ever! my talents include missing every skip and dying to uumuu

but fr all the guides/strats have been super helpful and I never would have considered running without them

[knotty vigil]

good job!

that's a lot better than my first cp any% speedrun

[dapper cove]

i do want to eventually start working on any%

but i've got so much else to work on

[hazy birch]

doing qga route on your first run pretty gamer ngl

[flint flare]

practiced a lot in debug mod so it only took 15 tries or so

may have lost 200 geo in the process but that's what the geo rocks in beast den are for right?

[true palm]

at 15 tries you might have lost time on that run BUT you nave more experience with qga, so its easier access to timesave next run

[gusty vortex]

qga hurts my soul, but its good to learn early

[true palm]

i learned qga and queens gardens, but ultimately went with deepnest because i didnt intend on running a lot of any% and i already new deepnest from low%

[steady lynx]

I've never really ran anything that does QGA, any% cp just goes deepnest for Spore Shroom now and 112 and AS has Isma's

[true palm]

any% cp CAN, any% cp on console SHOULD, important distinctions

[steady lynx]

At least until 1.5 releases and we have to deal with that mess

[hearty adder]

any% cp on console SHOULD be running on pc instead

[steady lynx]

But at the speed TC works at that's not for another 4-5 months

[true palm]

i mean you're not wrong

[steady lynx]

Issue with pc, it takes effort to get top 10

[hearty adder]

as long as you don't update your game it should be fine, right?

[steady lynx]

It's mostly the question on if we grandfather in runs that use it since new runners would be unable to use it

[true palm]

the fact that it will download to 1.5 for new runners is an issue though

[stark birch]

NKG is honestly close between patches, dash slash early shade soul complicates geo routing a fair bit in exchange for having shade soul for all the grimmkin (which while reducing variance A LOT for 1221 does not necessarily reduce optimal times), and we don't have anything terrible like dreamer cutscenes to contend with....jeff was also labbing out a totally different 1221 route that does dive/flukes instead of lantern and has posted some pretty good times with it, iirc getting 55 so far

[steady lynx]

Main thing is that with 1.5 loads doing QGA route on 1.5 would be far faster than Spore Shroom on 1.4

[stark birch]

but there's still development yet on both patches

[steady lynx]

Just harder

QGA is already probably faster on console just that nobody has grinded it to a comparably good time

[true palm]

but they also patched out spore shroom so the routes invalid on 1.5

and if sporeshroom becomes optimal its kind of hard to justify grandfathering runs with a large variance like that imo

[steady lynx]

We'll band together the top console runners to decide

[true palm]

specially since switch record has spore shroom now

[flint flare]

what's the cp sporeshroom route? I've been following 1221 guides and figuring out what doesn't work on cp

[true palm]

its deepnest route

[hearty adder]

you do deepnest route instead of queen's gardens

[stiff delta]

deepnest route but grab sporeshroom

[hearty adder]

the room before you drop down to deepnest has sporeshroom

[true palm]

fires video covers deepnest route if you want to see it

(just grab sporeshroom otw)

[flint flare]

ah ty

[steady lynx]

QGA should realistically be faster, even more so on 1.5, it's just that Spore Shroom is way easier

[true palm]

its the room with the bouncy mushrooms and breakable wall, just go to the bottom right

[hazy birch]

if you watch mathulu's switch wr run you can see how quickly it destroys CP THK

[steady lynx]

I think each blast deals about 100 damage

[true palm]

https://www.twitch.tv/mathulu/clip/SarcasticHelplessSpaghettiPRChase-RIORAiLSXiwZVnYN

believe its 120

equivalent of shamans abyss shriek

[steady lynx]

Because of 1.5 having faster loads I already know every category other than any% will be faster on 1.5 compared to 1.4

[hazy birch]

oh you grab catcher in ancestral mound also i think, that's another difference

[steady lynx]

If anyone ever does a 112 run on 1.5 console

[stark birch]

that's probably suboptimal even with sporeshroom; it's definitely suboptimal if you're not overcharming catcher for all the boss fights

[true palm]

i think you can but its not really necessary, mostly because sporeshroom takes so long to go off you can get 3 nailhits

[stark birch]

or at least all of city; GHS + WK + greenpath may be enough

[steady lynx]

Catcher is mainly for the THK fight and I've never been low on soul even without it there

[true palm]

you only get one extra cast per 8 hits so its pretty underwhelming

[stark birch]

math getting catcher was equal parts Greenpath convenience and meme but optimally using soul catcher against say Watchers is waaaaay uglier so probably not worth especially relative to the ease of use of Spore Shroom

[steady lynx]

I can barely do watchers on console even unovercharmed

[true palm]

overcharmed its not even worth because of how long it takes to overcharm

[steady lynx]

If anyone wants to fight overcharm any% watchers on console, go ahead

[true palm]

overcharming is like an additional 6 seconds iirc

[stark birch]

yeah idk bout console but iirc Rhino and...homothety? someone else idk were talking about spore shroom on PC cp any% and the verdict was not unless you use it for everything

[steady lynx]

I'll just keep doing 17% runs until I move on to True Ending, realise it's awful and does AS instead

[true palm]

then realizes CP AS is the worst CP category

[steady lynx]

cp TE is amazing

cp Traitor Lord

[true palm]

cp Traitor Lords at least entertaining, unlike cp all skills

[steady lynx]

tbf, yeah, cp AS is just AS but you get Shade Soul later

[stark birch]

but if you like cp traitor lord why run TE when you could run ghostbusters

[steady lynx]

But I want P5 boss order

[true palm]

but why run cp

[stark birch]

soon(tm) gusten

soon(tm)

[steady lynx]

Do THK and Radiance replace PV and AbsRad for that?

[stark birch]

yeah, just overworld forms

only barely makes it less garbage though

[steady lynx]

My favourite part is going to Greenpath with a dreamshield Baldur kill just to kill VK, then going back to kill Gruzmom

Soul Master followed by Oblobles also sounds fun

[true palm]

that sounds honestly the worst

[stark birch]

skipping false knight is allowed to get VS early

no longnail baldurs because fuck that

soul master > oblobbles is unquestionably the worst part of the run though, you're right

[steady lynx]

But you have to go back and kill FK after Gruzmom?

[stark birch]

especially because you have to detour to deepnest to free zote so you can fight him in colo to set up GPZ

yeah you have to return to actually kill FK

[steady lynx]

Then back to Greenpath for MMC and Hornet?

[stark birch]

yep

[steady lynx]

Oh, and Nosk replaces Nosket?

I've been practicing WK for two hours and got it down to 40/60 success rate

Which is good enough, good night

[stark stream]

Hey, i just wanted to ask if the fast fall thing in 1.2.2.1 is used in current patch runs too? I skimmed through the current wr and didn't see one used where I'd expect it to. Not sure if this is because there were reasons not to use it there (rules or smth) and i just missed the parts where it is used

also over 700 hours in hollow knight and just accidentally found a hidden room. god i love this game

[grizzled maple]

Check pins

Its still nmg just much harder

[stark stream]

oh cool

Is there an example of an non-collapsible floor somewhere? just to test my curiousity

[grizzled maple]

Collapsible floors are the ones that collapse under when you walk over them. Non collapsible floors are... the rest of the floors

[stark stream]

Or do you mean it's possible everywhere as long as it's perfect?

[grizzled maple]

It can be done from any ledge if that's what you mean yeah

Its just not always worth to do one and its not a huge deal to miss since its so precise

[stark stream]

so it's just not worth the time to learn it consistently?

[grizzled maple]

I would practice it to understand how it works, and go for each meaningful one you can, but don't be concerned if you miss it in the run.

Its basically a coin toss even at a high level

[stark stream]

just curious bc i was just running around on cp casually and could mildly consistently fall fast and wondered why it was talked about like it wasn't used in cp when it apparently was

I very highly doubted i discovered this very easily discoverable thing lol

[slim geyser]

Does it have the same issue allison described for super slides with physics frames sometimes not overlapping with fps and just missing it cuz rng?

[grizzled maple]

That would not be shocking

Maybe thats why it feels more consistent on console actually. Maybe the lag increases odds?

Like it gets closer to the 50 fps mark

[stark stream]

my fps is a fairly consistent 190-200

ill try vsync to see how it feels

[grizzled maple]

Yeah pc is a whole other thing though. I e said for a long time it felt more consistent on console

[stark stream]

changing fps for just that wouldn't be worth it but for curiousity ^^

[grizzled maple]

Yeah its definitely not worth for something so minor but it would explain my long suspicion

[stark birch]

capping fps does so many odd QoL things in this game (lookin at you longnail baldurs) so why not add inv drops to the list

[stark stream]

combat perks of high fps are pretty neat

it's a bit more consistent at 60fps maybe but I've also been practicing it for ten minutes

maybe 3 out of 5 attempts succeed

low fps feels terrible tho. the delay between me inputting and the game doing things feels really slow

i can only think of maybe two or three times in the game where it's worthwhile to pause for half a second to position yourself right tho

it's neat. maybe ill try it if i ever do cp

still. some runners grind harder for lesser gains

i think i remember fireb0rn talking about a 0.25 second skip in one room if u pogo here perfectly and either him/someone else practicing that specific room

Thanks for the help ^^ was just curious why i didn't see it used very often. figured it was against the rules or smth bc of some change to it

[true palm]

the moment vsync is required to run the game is the moment i look for a new game

[normal aspen]

Like you don't already have your top 3 backups downloaded and ready to go as soon as s9mething dumb happens

[stark stream]

the fps issues are why i even moved to pc

legitimately upgraded my pc purely for hollow knight speedrunning

the input delay is very noticeable

[elfin vortex]

Does enabling vsync/framerate cap have any positives/negatives on comps with lower specs? Idk much about what they do tbh

And should i have them on or off in a run

[normal aspen]

Should be off

Vsync will make the game borderline unplayable

[elfin vortex]

ok thx

[elfin vortex]

how do I make it so in livesplit the detailed timer shows both game time and the time taken of the split your on? (similar to fire's timer) as well as a third timer showing real time?

oh wait nvm think I got it set up

[dusk portal]

Does Godseeker saves automatically have Grimmchild? Can they have the other Grimm charm?

[dark blaze]

Maybe with save editing but i dont think so

[grand elm]

does anyone know where i can find kanra's community gold on any% cp crystal heart split ?

there is no link in the spreadsheet

[frigid rapids]

if there is no link in the spreadhseet i'd say it's because it wasn't provided

this gives a rough idea of how a good cheart segment would look like: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6QPFZqj2K0

[grand elm]

oke thanks !

[honest folio]

im trying to switch from controller to keyboard, im kinda okay-ish with it but i just wanted to know if it's bad to get used to spacebar as jump

[leaden python]

If you take advices I would suggest into looking to map your jump to something else than space. Vertical thumb slap is not very good at fine-grained precise control, and spacebar isn't always the best and responsive key on a keyboard

So unless you're trained well in using your spacebar with the forearm muscles instead of by solely moving your thumb you'll either get RSI from excessive platforming or will just generally suffer from it being not as precise as you would hope for.
So to answer your question directly: yes it is possible to get good at jumping on spacebar, especially if you have many years of prior experience of using it like that in other speed games or platformers. But I personally think that it doesn't worth the effort

[somber cedar]

any idea how hard it is to train yourself to a different jump input? my jumps do feel a bit meh, and I use space for jump

[leaden python]

It took me about two weeks to surpass myself when I switched a jump from thumb to the mid finger. I wasn't switching because I found jump on thumb to not be comfy, but because of an injury accident 🥴

[somber cedar]

it only really comes up in high-reactive situations like hornet 2

[leaden python]

(I've used right alt as a jump before)

[lucid stirrup]

theres many perfectly good setups for kb, if you want a decent one defaults are good

(defaults with inv bound to something else)

[somber cedar]

middle finger is quick cast for me rn, so that would probably be the best switch ig

[lucid stirrup]

if you run defaults also, i recommend switching quickcast from f to v

but monstah uses f so like its fine either way, i just fine it to be less of a stretch

[somber cedar]

I don't, I have everything mapped to wasd, +qef

(and movement on arrow keys)

[normal aspen]

you ideally want it so u dont have to take ur fingers off of movement keys

and non movement hand to have 1 finger each for nail jump dash and quick cast

[somber cedar]

ye I only move my fingers for inv and cdash

oh and dnail I suppose

[lucid stirrup]

my right hand is arrow keys and absolutely nothing else

[somber cedar]

yea, same. I have w=quick cast, a=dash, d=nail, space=jump

e=inv, q=cdash, f=dnail. that part is fine, but switching quick cast and jump could be good? jumps feel like they have to be more precise than casts

[elfin vortex]

@leaden python you asked for info on how hk runs on bootcamp so here. Xbox game bar is telling me the avg fps im getting with livesplit running is 150/200 with spikes sometimes averaging 300. I have an 2017 imac with an i5 7360U. Havent checked with OBS yet but it seems to be running well. Ur friend should be fine running hk with bootcamp and its FAR better than a VM like parallels

[lucid stirrup]

why no s bind

if you have your hand there you could put cdash or dnail on s for free

[somber cedar]

s is heal

[lucid stirrup]

ah

[somber cedar]

because it never coincides with quick cast. sry, forgot to mention

[lucid stirrup]

you may come to find out that heal is actually like the least important button

you could have it on like j and be fine

[somber cedar]

yeah, that's true

I might try putting quick cast on space and jump on w and watch my brain explode from trying to adjust

[normal aspen]

yeah im wasd move and have heal on left shift

coz left pinkie can do that shit

[lucid stirrup]

idk if having cast on space is good cause cast need to be really precise but it could work prob

[normal aspen]

space is my inv

[lucid stirrup]

personally i think space is just a bad key, but thats just cause i dont use it

yea inv is a good use of space

[normal aspen]

yeah gwonk, i def agree

i use ot for inv so either hand can do it

coz some stuff i like it with diff hands

[lucid stirrup]

oh thats interesting somni

haven't heard of that

just just inv on ctrl cause my pinky was doing nothing

[somber cedar]

hmm, I need dash + cast + jump + nail reachable immediately, so those go to all four fingers except for my pinky

and so one of them goes to space, cause that's where my thumb reaches

was my thinking

and cast is maybe the one with the least precision/reaction required of the four? hard to say rly, happy for advice

[lucid stirrup]

i think they all need precision

nail cancels are like omega important

i use 3 fingers for them

zxcv and i just use index for both c and v. I never need to dash and fireball at the same time so it works

[normal aspen]

its mainly depending on what im timing it off of, so for cp iv drops where im walking off i do it same had that does the directional input, but for dash slash storage or cp inv drops out of dash i do it with my other hand that controlss those things

[lucid stirrup]

ohhh thats cool

i recommend same finger for dash and cast

[lucid stirrup]

easier hand coordination thats smart

[limpid ruin]

(Hey vali you should give your general qualifications for why your opinion on this matter is frickn good as well, bc it is, just not everyone may know it and it isn't necessarily intuitive bc of wasd fps control schemes )

[normal aspen]

yeah exactly gwonk

[limpid ruin]

Anything involving frickn bufferless quick cast needs precision true. Ifhi

[lucid stirrup]

zxcv is intuitive to me because fighting games and other 2d games use that

[limpid ruin]

Do you use arrows or some other keys on right side, gwonkee?

[somber cedar]

I never thought of it but that makes sense

[lucid stirrup]

arrows

arrows are nice cause they have no other keys in the way or near

yea the thing about dash and cast is they last long enough that you can just move your finger to the other one during the animation

[somber cedar]

doubling cast and dash on w and s feels like a pretty good idea, and then my ring finger could get jump

ring finger is generally awkward but probably still better than thumb

[lucid stirrup]

nah ring finger is what i use for jump its good

dont forget to do your ring finger workouts tho

[somber cedar]

yeah but you aren't a clumsy mess

[limpid ruin]

Ring finger for jump sounds better than my ringfinger for nail. Cursed straining 🥴

[lucid stirrup]

i used to be a clumsy mess at least, but ive never changed my binds :)

[normal aspen]

i have quick cast on pinkie and its fine

[lucid stirrup]

that sounds tiring

[normal aspen]

took it a bit of learning but now its as smart as my other fingers

[somber cedar]

my pinkie feels impossible to use with precision. like, heal is okay, but anything else?

[limpid ruin]

Yea it's just practicing until its muscle memory. Pinkies are better than we give them credit for if we're patient enough

[normal aspen]

yeah i was surprised how good it got

[dark blaze]

my left hand pinky is on dash

[lucid stirrup]

wtffffffff

[limpid ruin]

But it's also probably just physically how your hands are as well in terms of fingerlengths?

[normal aspen]

im left handed and my right pinkie did mag skip

[limpid ruin]

Hand reveals everyone?

[normal aspen]

but yeah my pinkie depresses more or less straight down

so its very minimal effort

and doesnt weart out

[somber cedar]

hmm, my right hand is on arrows and my right pinkie actually reaches numpad 0

[limpid ruin]

Depresses = ? Btw?

[normal aspen]

I have pretty big hands tho so all my fingers basically go straight down

goes down

[limpid ruin]

Why not just press?

[normal aspen]

like presses key

[last inlet]

quick cast pinky is good

[limpid ruin]

Depress sounds to me like the depress, aka going back up, and I just never asked

[normal aspen]

it stems more from like making a depression in something is making a dent sorta thing

[limpid ruin]

Quick cast pinky would've been good for me if my pinkies were a bit longer. I've a lot of dexterity, but not so much max reach

[somber cedar]

quick cast pinkie would mean that my middle finger doesn't have to do double duty ig

[normal aspen]

english is 3 leanguages in a trench coat dont read too much into it

[lucid stirrup]

i have tiny hands

f for cast is uncomfortable cause tiny hands

[limpid ruin]

How's your wrist angle btw, gwonkee?

[hardy crown]

Hand reveal? peepoArrive

[normal aspen]

Blues long lost cousin

[last inlet]

quick cast left pinky

[limpid ruin]

I refuse for you to repeat my wrist injury mistakes just of it maybe not hurting right now

[hardy crown]

Oh wait this is #speedrunning not #sr-offtopic

[lucid stirrup]

my left wrist be turned to the left a bit when i play

both my arms come from the outside of my kb and then wrist turn to be straight

[limpid ruin]

Why is basic daily anatomy terms impossible

[lucid stirrup]

#sr-offtopic message relevent

[limpid ruin]

So are wrist to hands a straight line if viewed from above, and bending happens at elbow?

[somber cedar]

feels weird to have to move a finger for either dash or quick cast, I kinda want both accessible

[lucid stirrup]

hold on this is a paint moment

[limpid ruin]

Because if bending happens at wrist that's exactly what I thought my body could handle as well, and now my hands are broken 🥴

[hardy crown]

Thanks for reminding me to do wrist exercises Cerpin ❤️

[golden bobcat]

Is there a guide for the 100% 20 hour achievement like the 5 hour guide?

[limpid ruin]

Yee gwonkee we need to straighten those wrists

[normal aspen]

mine is more like this

[limpid ruin]

That's like seeing old me

[normal aspen]

but i can keep right wrist straight

[lucid stirrup]

not sure, but i recommend just re going through all the areas and doing the stuff you haven't

[normal aspen]

coz i bend the fingers more / they get shorter the further right they are\

[lucid stirrup]

grab all the movement and spells first, like shade cloak and isma, and shriek, then just do a victory lap around the map

[last inlet]

my hands are more lke this (the horizontal lines are my wrists)

[hardy crown]

Pretty sure we have a 112% guide on src, even if you're doing it for the first time and just reading/following along it you should easily come in at under 20 hours if you follow that.

[somber cedar]

I actually think my pinkie is better than my ring finger, my ring finger is an idiot wth

[hardy crown]

The guide might even be outdated but it should still be manageable if you managed to get 112% and beat p5.

If you wanted you could even skip some of the harder %s and still get 100% fine.

[frank obsidian]

GM guys

[somber cedar]

This is a decent list of what you want and where to find it: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1820982814

[lucid stirrup]

condensed 100% guide

[frank obsidian]

[limpid ruin]

Because basically, you should find some/any position where any bending your arm does happens at shoulders and elbows. The nerves and tendons going through to your fingers have such tight openings/channels they go through, that any twisting will lead to added pressure on them. Which may work rn, but long term its hecked

[lucid stirrup]

i think i really nailed queens gardens in this guide

[frank obsidian]

My two awaiting runs got verified

[last inlet]

yeah you just inv drop through qg

[lucid stirrup]

the detail in that area was exquisite

[limpid ruin]

Also fingers go up/down not side-to-side. Frickn fingers

[somber cedar]

I always feel like I should tilt my keyboard downwards instead of upwards for less pressure on my wrist

[limpid ruin]

Yea, that's a thing that could help ergonomically

[somber cedar]

but all keyboards are made to tilt upwards for some reason

[limpid ruin]

And with staggered columns that're inherently unergonomical

[last inlet]

just turn your keyboard by 180 degrees

[limpid ruin]

Like you can use them properly, but there's a ton of people who will have issues bc of the standard design

[lucid stirrup]

my right wrist usually hurts after longtime playing

[limpid ruin]

Damn that's not good :l

Invest in split ergo kbs everyone? Peepoarrive

[lucid stirrup]

woah

[limpid ruin]

(it looks extra awkward there bc of the camera bending over pose)

[lucid stirrup]

having a button where thumb is actually useful

thats crazy

[limpid ruin]

Iri I love it

[lucid stirrup]

omg i google iri

[normal aspen]

werent they like half of Norway's gdp to buy tho

[lucid stirrup]

pls tell me what it means

[normal aspen]

it really is

[limpid ruin]

It really is yee

[lucid stirrup]

my world has changed

[limpid ruin]

This one cost me 350 USD ish with shipping, it couldve been 50 less if I didn't choose the rgb light and shine

So expensive yea, but not designed to ruin my hands also yeee

[lucid stirrup]

investing money in things ur gonna use 10 hours a day anyway is a good use of money

[frank obsidian]

[lucid stirrup]

or even not 10hr, just things you use a lot should be good

[normal aspen]

Yeah for sure

[limpid ruin]

Yee. Also $350 onetime payment for something I use daily as well. Like that's so much cheaper than so many other hobbies

[normal aspen]

Once I'm adequately stonking I'm gonna get better pc and split ergo kb

[lucid stirrup]

[normal aspen]

Coz I mean u saw in the pic, due to broad shoulders one wrist will always be bent or I have to do the weird thing I do

[lucid stirrup]

the way i type is so stupid having a split kb just doesn't work

[limpid ruin]

Yea. I tried that before getting this. It didn't work 🥴

But then you learn to type properly because you're forced to and its all stonks all the way round

[lucid stirrup]

i hit the space bar with my right index like half the time but not always

[somber cedar]

I've been wanting an ergodox for years now, but didn't quite convince myself to spend the stonks when a good gaming keyboard is half as expensive

maybe next time

[lucid stirrup]

and anything in the middle is different finger depending on the word

tyghbn i hit with different fingers sometimes

[honest folio]

i have trouble using anything else than space for jumping, even though i so feel like it's unreliable sometimes

plus, i use wasd for movement and jkl etc for attacks and abilities so i feel like my best option is spacebar for jump

[somber cedar]

why would your movement hand matter for that?

[limpid ruin]

Sounds like muscle memory from most games tbh. Wasd+space and left shift and ctrl

[last inlet]

i cant get my hands to use space for anything in this game

[honest folio]

also i use lshift for dash. i've played countless 2d fighting/platforming games and now i just cant seem to be able to jump with any other key

[elfin vortex]

Stupid question but recently I switched to playing on win 10 via bootcamp and since today the vengeflies seem to be slightly faster unless I turn vsync on but that causes my inputs to be delayed which I dont want. Would it affect my submission or cause it to be denied if the vengeflies are like this? Idk what caused it

[limpid ruin]

as long as your technique is actually decent using space for yump isnt that bad. Its just hard to find that proper technique, especially by yourself with no similar training/pre-knowledge

[limpid ruin]

all flying enemies are at least partially affected by FPS i believe Aka, that shouldnt be any issue for verification though

[elfin vortex]

Oh phew. Thought it was some wierd glitch or something

[limpid ruin]

In previous patches theyre 100% fps dependant, and its cursed, but just an example of it not being the biggest issue

[digital jewel]

please don't use vsync

[elfin vortex]

May have helped with vengeflies but its horrid yh

[digital jewel]

I don't see how slow vengeflies is a benefit

[elfin vortex]

Fast vengeflies caused me to be pushed into spikes or something cuz they were too quick etc

[frank obsidian]

When the Vengefly is zoomies

[limpid ruin]

ngl i preferred 200fps flies even if theyre snails to me now, just bc it let me be less inconcistent

[frank obsidian]

imma zoom rq

[hearty adder]

Kinda late to ask this but how would you do that? I use spacebar for jump and I haven't noticed any issues so far, and I'd like to prevent anything bad from happening

[hearty adder]

That's probably because turning on vsync (at least iirc) also turns on the framerate cap? If you're having trouble with vengeflies you should use an external frame limiter for the game

Most people do 200-250fps

[elfin vortex]

May do. Any suggestions on an app to do that?

[honest folio]

RivaTuner works like a charm for me

https://www.guru3d.com/files-details/rtss-rivatuner-statistics-server-download.html

[hearty adder]

Even if, sometimes vengeflies decide to go fast as fuck anyways but limiting your framerate should make it more consistent

[elfin vortex]

wow thx

[leaden python]

thanks for not forgetting about me :) stats seems really decent for this game indeed

[frank obsidian]

12:45.50 for Aluba%! [CP]

[limpid ruin]

yo thats amazing performance right off the bat compared to what id expect 👀

[elfin vortex]

ik Im honestly surprised. A welcome surprise tho

[strong vessel]

I wish my mac ran that well on bootcamp

Idk what my actual FPS is but I'm pretty sure it's around 30

[knotty vigil]

First attempt at speedrunning

is vengeful spirit in 6 min hopeful for going under 5h

not gonna aim to beat records or anything

[normal aspen]

?srpsa

[sick raven]

Reminder: This category is intended for competitive speedrunning discussion. Questions about achievements should be directed to #hk-help.
Guide for the 5hr speedrunning achievement: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1861523602

[elfin vortex]

RIP the pains of playing on mac (or using a mac in general) are immense

[knotty vigil]

uh oh

in my pb i don't think it showed enough of the title screen

it didn't show the title screen, just the save file select

guess i'm fucked

at least i'm assuming that's not allowed right?

[digital jewel]

you need to show the title screen

[knotty vigil]

damn

idk why it started recording late

[hearty adder]

Always good to leave the title screen on for longer than you think is needed

Recording software usually doesn't start recording right at the second you hit record

[knotty vigil]

damn

[hearty adder]

Anyways, it's a good excuse to get a new pb

[knotty vigil]

yeah, at least i don't have to learn a new catagory now haha

[hearty adder]

Or at the very least a run you think is good enough for the leaderboards

[knotty vigil]

yeah, the on that didn't show the title screen was 82nd on the leaderboard

[hearty adder]

That's really good

[ionic cargo]

do you guys think this is a good enough image/sound quality to be verified?

[grizzled maple]

Can you get it in any closer? This might be okay, but seeing the actual geo number in the HUD would probably be important

I guess if you zoom in you can see it actually. It's just super fuzzy in the preview

[ionic cargo]

this is probably as close as i can get it

[short spire]

wouldn't hurt to have the screen fill more of the view as well as not being at an angle

[grizzled maple]

I'll let an actual src mod answer then. I would probably accept it personally.

[ionic cargo]

okay thx emray and ax

i dont think there is a way i can easily make it bigger/not at an angle

[grizzled maple]

My actual concern with this is that you're playing undocked, which has faster loads. That's a more true reason to reject this video.

[ionic cargo]

wait really, i had no idea

[grizzled maple]

Yep

It's something we've had to explicitly ban in pokemon speedrunning

Unsure if the hk mods even know about that, or overlook it though.

[ionic cargo]

i guess i'll have to wait until a mod sees this then

i dont think loads will be a problem for my first run as its a trial of the warrior, but id rather clarify now than learning the hard way later down the line

[grizzled maple]

Yeah I can see an exception being made for ILs with only 1 load. It's not that drastic, but for real runs, or even runs like PoP with several loads, it would add up.

[sonic crane]

That’s a weird thing to ban, doesn’t that just exclude everyone with a lite

[grizzled maple]

Yeah it would, but it's the only way for it to be fair for such a long run. It is a hardware advantage no matter how you spin it

[hearty adder]

Banning certain hardware is pretty common in console games

Or having hardware that performs inherently better than others

[grizzled maple]

It's because of how the switch works, handheld mode is more efficient

[short spire]

has it actually been tested for hk?

this seems like an important thing to know specifics on

[grizzled maple]

Not that I know of, but it's true for all the games I'm aware of.

Handheld processes things faster. It's a switch quirk not related to games themselves.

[short spire]

yeah i'm not doubting you but hk can be very weird about stuff like this

like for example SSD's don't really speed up pc loads noticeably

[grizzled maple]

If no one else does, I can frame count after the imerman event is over. I had to completely uninstall my elgato software because it won't work with the apps i need for the event

[limpid dust]

But people go back to title screen anyway during runs so what s the big deal about not having it at the start?

[haughty fossil]

ease of verification; it's way easier for us to check at the beginning of the run, when the title screen is visible for a longer period

i think optimally mashing you get through the title screen without even seeing the patch number

(plus it makes more sense for consistency; for a short category with no quitouts we don't want to have the video standards be different)

[dark blaze]

Frame rate cap should be off yes?

[short spire]

it's allowed to be on or off

iirc the ingame fps cap has a stupidly high value anyway though so it barely affects anything

[hallow orchid]

Yeah it's 400fps lol

We are currently not allowed to change that value

You can cap with an external program as long as you don't change the value mid-run

[fair island]

Then how is vsync epogo allowed?

[hallow orchid]

Vsync is allowed because it's an in-game frame rate toggle not an external one

[fair island]

Oh ok

[leaden python]

HK having frame rate capping like Talos Principle has would be so blessed

Talos Principle has a dropdown that allows you to select like from 20 to 200 with the step of 10 or something like that

It's ridiculously fine-grained

[stiff delta]

that sounds so nice

[short spire]

you can change it through the config file or something though right

did we ever reach a decision on whether that's allowed?

i remember people were talking about it in context of glitched runs

[quiet saddle]

!saves

[leaden python]

?saves

[sick raven]

Saves

---

Windows File Paths: (Assumes Default Steam Install Path, Adjust accordingly for DRM Free or Non-Standard Steam Path)

Game Files: C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\Hollow Knight\```
** **
Mac File Paths:
```Save Files: ~/Library/Application Support/unity.Team Cherry.Hollow Knight/
Game Files: ~/Library/Application Support/Steam/steamapps/common/Hollow Knight/hollow_knight.app/```
** **
Linux File Paths:
```Save Files: ~/.config/unity3d/Team Cherry/Hollow Knight/
Game Files: ~/.local/share/Steam/steamapps/common/Hollow Knight/```

[hallow orchid]

Last I asked about this the decision was that we should consider it banned for now, but there will be a vote on it eventually

Would have been useful for vsync epogo with a 144hz monitor but now with comfypogo I care less

[honest folio]

wait, what's vsync epogo?

[grizzled maple]

#resources message

It's also the one used on console which natively targets 60 fps

[honest folio]

thats pretty crazy wow

is the setup really worth the time tho

[haughty fossil]

no considering comfepogo exists

for console though you don't need to menu, so it's faster

[hallow orchid]

I think comfypogo is about as fast on console

the extra time for the explosion + the damage tank is about the same length as the soul collection I think

[grizzled maple]

Yeah the vsync pogo was the only good strat before comfy pogo

its still the backup for if you fail comfy pogo for people who run on 60hz monitors

[honest folio]

makes sense

[vital seal]

I have just dowloaded livesplitter and setup using fireborns guide, however it isnt auto splitting, i have 2 things that i think might be the reason, i'm on current patch, and i'm using some mods(I am speedruing casually and i know it isnt allowed on leaderboards). Is it because of this or something else?

[true palm]

if you dont have a 60hz, you can always try for panta

[grizzled maple]

#speedrunning message

@vital seal ^

These are the most common issues, also make sure you open livesplit after the game

[vital seal]

Thx, Will try againg

[true palm]

something else, you need to 1) have a split setup, 2) launch livesplit after hollowknight, 3)have game time on

[grizzled maple]

thats all in the checklist i posted cyni

[true palm]

ye slow internet rn

sorry

[grizzled maple]

discord do be like that sometimes

[knotty vigil]

i did the first run of the day and got 0.33 seconds slower than my pb. However this time the title screen was recorded

[honest folio]

i feel so scammed

a run i just submitted is said to be at 22nd place but im 19ms faster than the 21st place run

[true palm]

ms are only used for wr and il's due to the inaccuracy of the timer, so if its not one of those i'd presume it'd be changed to a tie

[honest folio]

ah

sad

[haughty fossil]

if you add ms it will be slower than a run without ms

[vital seal]

Thx, it worked

[haughty fossil]

since srcom treats no ms input as s.000

[true palm]

also dont add ms unless its an il or wr

[haughty fossil]

we manually remove milliseconds from runs that shouldn't have it

[honest folio]

wow rlly lmao

i mean i guess that makes sense

[knotty vigil]

oh, should i not have a timer with ms then?

[haughty fossil]

you can, its just for the submission

[grizzled maple]

no you can for you own keeping

just src it wont matter

[knotty vigil]

ah

[true palm]

its because src wont allow games to have categories with ms and without ms

[grizzled maple]

well, you can set ILs to have them but not full categories, but you cant divide by categories

iirc

im pretty sure blue fire has IL ms on but off for the full game runs

[haughty fossil]

ms is only used in very short ILs, or for WR tiebreaks. if you look at the board and the majority of runs and there are no ms, just don't bother submitting ms

[digital jewel]

if it does em could you show me how?

[grizzled maple]

nvm I guess tech never did enable ms at all

src really should add that as a basic option

[haughty fossil]

src should really do the bare minimum to make their site usable

[digital jewel]

eh idk sounds impossible

we can do more livestreams on your front page instead

[knotty vigil]

how long does it normally take for you all to upload a run to yt? it's taking like 2 hours and i have pretty good internet

[true palm]

good download =/= good upload

[grizzled maple]

That's based on your internet speed vs the size of the file and file type

Also note: processing generally takes about twice the length of the actual video as a rule of thumb. It can be a bit less though

[digital jewel]

you probably have a really big file compared to what you need

[knotty vigil]

how do i make it smaller then?

[digital jewel]

or maybe your upload is just a lot worse than your download

[true palm]

what is your file size and what is your upload speed

[knotty vigil]

4.47 GB

[digital jewel]

record at a lower bitrate

how long is the run?

4.47gb is a looot

[knotty vigil]

vid is 55 minutes

[true palm]

4.47 is pretty massive (for reference most hd videos are about 2gb per hour for a high quality video)

[haughty fossil]

wtf is your bitrate

[knotty vigil]

how do i check that?

[true palm]

obs

[haughty fossil]

obs settings

[knotty vigil]

2500 kbps

should it not be that high?

[haughty fossil]

that's fine

make sure it's the same for recording

[true palm]

what recording quality do you have

[knotty vigil]

these are my settings

[grizzled maple]

I would change that recording format to mp4. it's the most versitile video format

4k bitrate is fine. Your audio can go down to 128

[true palm]

i just remux mp4

[grizzled maple]

i personally record at 12k bitrate. it shouldnt impact size too too much

[haughty fossil]

mp4 bad, record in mkv then remux to mp4. there's a setting to do so automatically

[grizzled maple]

how is mp4 bad for my own education?

[true palm]

if your recording goes out to obs crashing its unrecoverable in mp4

[haughty fossil]

(if the recording does not finalise mp4 dies, whereas mkv does not)

[grizzled maple]

in my experience its the most smooth option

smooth balanced with file size at least

[knotty vigil]

would that make the upload shorter though?

[true palm]

if the power goes out id rather have video than not

[digital jewel]

mkv is the exact same as mp4 in terms of file size I'm pretty sure

[haughty fossil]

mkv is essentially mp4 but it doesn't need to be finalised. mkv also makes uploads to yt shorter i believe, since they remux to mkv anyway for online play

[grizzled maple]

hmm interesting

[knotty vigil]

what would be the problem then, internet speed is fine

[grizzled maple]

mp4 is also convenient though that you can post raw video and have it embed

[haughty fossil]

that's why you remux when recording is over

[true palm]

(also bitrate is 4000 because my internets shit and works better for streaming)

[hot latch]

I wouldn't be the best person to ask, but the only other thing i could think of is to see what bitrate rate control you're using

[cyan tendon]

so I haven't submitted a run yet, but i have a routing question

for 106%, if i wanted to not fight grimm and banish the troupe instead, is there any major rerouting that needs to be done?

[haughty fossil]

not particularly, but 106% TE requires by the ruleset you kill NKG

[grizzled maple]

Yeah it would change routing

[haughty fossil]

you don't need to get any of the last set of flames except brumm's flame though

[grizzled maple]

the reason 112 does unn and baldur shell late is because of banish

basically all of upper greenpath would be done on a final trip going to banish

the flames themselves dont really change routing though. but you would buy gp stag early

[cyan tendon]

runs being official wouldnt be an issue 🙂

[grizzled maple]

i would watch 112 and take inspiration from that

[cyan tendon]

thank you ❤️

[quiet saddle]

Any good suggestions for simple ways to practice HK movement? Just trying to generally clean up my play

For example, I find I often get mistakenly get side slashes over drifting down slashes when trying to go for a tight pogo attempt

I wanna grind this inconsistency away

[dreamy bough]

really grind the game is my main advice - it's a matter of being so used to the movement that it's instictive. If there's specific rooms where you have issues, grinding that specific room for a while will def help, but it can feel pretty tedious

[hallow orchid]

honestly I find just playing the game in any capacity helps with general movement

if you have a specific room you need to practice definitely grind that out but almost any hours played will help you be more precise with jumps, nail swings, etc

[hearty adder]

You'll also progress faster if you're actively conscious of the way you're moving

So you can be on the lookout for things to improve

[wind spear]

Hey all, I'm not sure if this is the best place to ask about this kind of thing, but I was wondering if I correctly set up my splits for 4ms. During my practice run with these splits, I had to manually split the 4th section to end it.

[hallow orchid]

This is fine but #misc-runs-nmg does exist if it's specific to 4ms. To your question though do you have end-triggering autosplit checked?

[wind spear]

Oh, that might be it! Let me check real quick

Yep, thanks again for your help. I don't want to end up setting my splits up wrong again lol

[hallow orchid]

No worries haha. It's a bit different for the meme runs where you don't actually finish the game, you always want to check that box and make sure you have all the splits you want

[pearl sparrow]

45:13 can this wall cling storage only be done with ismas? https://youtu.be/njf-BA2VAL8

I was wondering if you can get to monomon with just dash and wings

[digital jewel]

no you can't

[pearl sparrow]

And claw ofc

Ok

[digital jewel]

well you can*

but it wouldn't be nmg legal

[hallow orchid]

Also to get out you need to use several fireballs so you only get one try

[digital jewel]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WaZ6yRHOf-o

[azure saffron]

I recently started doing speedruns. I'm not great, but hey, I've only finished 3 attempts. Right now I'm probably roughly following fireborn's sub-5 guide, but I've only skimmed that so I may be doing somethings differently. What time should I try to get down to before learning how to do watcher knights without DDark and do them with just VS? I think that's probably the biggest time waste cause I have to go through soul sanctum and crystallized mound. Also, how much time does getting wings waste and how much does it gain from basically skipping beast's den? My current best time is a bit over 2 hours.

[dreamy bough]

getting wings waste a bunch of time - you shouldn't be going close to that section of the game in any%

recommended "step before true grit any%" include getting nail1 and/or shade soul (by getting dash slash) before watcher knights, but keeping close to the route

ideally the faster you focus on the real route, the faster you can train everything on it and get better at it

[azure saffron]

Are there any tricks that I should avoid for the time being because they have minimal time save and will just waste my time failing them? I feel like that might be a trap I fall into

[haughty fossil]

if on current patch, inventory drops

[hallow orchid]

pretty much everything in the VS and greenpath splits tbqh

like try the fireball skips once, try double spike, but when you fail just go around it's fine

[dreamy bough]

or do the backup (for first fireball skip)

[hallow orchid]

yeah for the first fireball skip learn the squit backup

[haughty fossil]

cp runner forgets actual first fb skip exists

[azure saffron]

What is double spike? I may have seen it in a run but I don't know the name

[grizzled maple]

the first aspid arena

[limpid ruin]

I would say, if youre feeling comfortable with the basics of the comfy route, you can move on to a more optimised route with info and guides in the pins here. But if you still have a hard time even with lots extra (which is frickn understandable. This game is hard ), then I wouldnt say there's much need to move on.
Point for learning and getting further: if a new strat or something is uncomfortable - that's natural, and just part of getting used to it and learning it. There's little learning without "pain" of some sort

[grizzled maple]

it's really consistent outside of spawn rng on cp, and really precise on older patches

[dreamy bough]

generally the any% route doesn't have much of "minor, but risky" optimisations i think. There's some tricks like pogaxe and stuff, but mostly it's just getting the movement down.
Some alternate rouites that are a bit costly on time but probably fine when starting out :

• going around instead of doing epogo
• going through deepnest route instead of qga

[limpid ruin]

you can do both those and still be within a minute of wr if you grind to get good enough btw, just to set a mindset of how much route technically carries

[haughty fossil]

generally a lot of the strats i found it hard to relearn was actually doing boss fights quickly. Surviving cp THK is one thing, killing them fast is another story

[hallow orchid]

yeah like to survive cp THK you may waste some time healing during self stab. To kill cp THK quickly you will intentionally heal during self stab to let spore shroom kill him

[azure saffron]

Should I ditch my current route now and switch to the main route or practice a bit more?

[hallow orchid]

I would recommend sticking as close to the main route as you are comfortable doing

so don't get like dive, for example, but a nail upgrade is fine, or going around through deepnest

[limpid ruin]

are you comfortable with your current route?

[grizzled maple]

Usually it's recommended to follow as close to the main route to not have problems transitioning later. You can use whatever safety nets you feel you need though.

[azure saffron]

Yes.

Fairly

[limpid ruin]

then optimise and move on, because you have enough comfort to push further

[azure saffron]

Will do

[limpid ruin]

(assuming you want to get faster times, of course)

[azure saffron]

If I didn't want to get faster I would have quit after I got speedrun 2 😛

[limpid ruin]

exactly

[hallow orchid]

you may find it slower at first because you'll die to WK a lot or something, but trust me you'll get used to it before too long and it'll be much faster as a result

[limpid ruin]

yea. Also while any% is hard, I think its overstated how hard it is, because the focus of it is so narrow, so its mainly a few hard parts, rather than a lot of them

[strong vessel]

Also, WK are a lot easier with nail 1 or shade soul, and that's probably the hardest part of the run

So don't get discouraged by people saying how difficult they are

You can do it!

[azure saffron]

🙂

[true palm]

sound cues are big for wk on 1221, so you can know if theyre bouncing/rolling off screen (thats often neglected)

[azure saffron]

ooh

I should study that

[true palm]

so the roll/bounce sound is the same

but bounces have thuds

[azure saffron]

Ah

[true palm]

but its really good for when the watchers separate, because if you dont hear it after a minute that means the knights walking

a walking knight will always slash if they get in range in time or roll if they cant

[azure saffron]

Is there a legal way to poke around in hollow knights code?

[haughty fossil]

yes, dnspy

[azure saffron]

Nice

That might give me a better understanding of bosses than the wiki listing their attacks

[haughty fossil]

the code doesn't actually contain boss ai 🥴

you need FSMViewer for that

[true palm]

you can also just use debug mod, (i found zooming out and hitboxes to be particularly helpful)

[haughty fossil]

i believe fsmviewer is pinned in #archived-modding-development?

[hearty adder]

iirc the WK fsms have been posted here more than once

[azure saffron]

Debug does look like it would help a lot, as I could adjust difficulty as needed to make practicing more comfortable.

[haughty fossil]

debug is a must have for any level of practice fwiw

[azure saffron]

I guess I can go get that installed then

[knotty vigil]

i just uploaded my sub 50 run! I hope it gets verified

[azure saffron]

Nice!

[haughty fossil]

simply play on pc with vsync on to practice

[true palm]

simply dont play on console

[elfin vortex]

Which cat? Any% cp I presume or something else similar?

[dapper cove]

Any% cp yeah

[knotty vigil]

Yeah

[clear olive]

Idk where to put this..... could i contact scs for stuff encountered in rando or racing channels? Not that there is sth going on rn, i just noticed the scs related channels disappeared with the role

[leaden python]

yeah it is likely a role-related issue, but you can definitely contact anyone of us

[peak marsh]

I did it

I have succesfully done Teacher's Archives without CHeart or Isma's Tear

using shade cloak, Sharp Shadow and Spell Twister, you can get into the Monomon section from the left side

[digital jewel]

yes that's a known rando skip. grats on getting it

[limpid ruin]

I believe that was the intention of it yea, and at least with the new server it should be publicly available to anyone in the server. It's a limitation of existing under the HK-main server hierarchy, and roles being hard to properly organise. At least that was the intention based off of earlier announcements

[frank obsidian]

If ur not careful I might get softlocked so be careful

[clear olive]

Oh okay, i guess i can fall back on that one abyss climb il

[thorny eagle]

I understand there's going to be a speedrun specific server soon anyway? So likely that won't be an issue anymore

[clear olive]

i just dont feel like a speedrunner of hk yknow

[thorny eagle]

Ah snap sorry for repeating info

[frank obsidian]

Role making is fun imo, but I guess you are referring to more than just making the roles.

[clear olive]

Those channels could be useful for the forms they have

[limpid ruin]

Yea, for sure. Brought it up as soon as zvii mentioned it. Not really sure if there's a super simple solution with this server here and roles currently

[frank obsidian]

I mean we could always add fun vanity roles like on Floofcord

[peak marsh]

so can the game be beaten without either CHeart or Isma's Tear?

if you do this skip, dreamgate to get out of the Monomon hardsave

[digital jewel]

technically yes

[peak marsh]

nice, I'm gonna do that lmao

[digital jewel]

enjoy the shade skip to get wings without cheart

[clear olive]

For possible blue color, would fix it for now

[digital jewel]

do you want the role again blue?

[leaden python]

wait, didn't you have the role before? 🤔

[peak marsh]

I will

at least at first lmao

[digital jewel]

asked for it to be removed

[leaden python]

For some reason I remember you having blue role

ahh gotcha

[clear olive]

Yea thats correct

[digital jewel]

sorry blue were you responding to this

or just affirming that you asked for role removal

[clear olive]

That was in repsonse to vali, but yes i would like blue to be blue

It feels off

[leaden python]

lfg

[radiant pewter]

How do I use the savestates on speedrun.com? I get a .dat file and I am not sure how those work

[hallow orchid]

?saves

[sick raven]

Saves

---

Windows File Paths: (Assumes Default Steam Install Path, Adjust accordingly for DRM Free or Non-Standard Steam Path)

Game Files: C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\Hollow Knight\```
** **
Mac File Paths:
```Save Files: ~/Library/Application Support/unity.Team Cherry.Hollow Knight/
Game Files: ~/Library/Application Support/Steam/steamapps/common/Hollow Knight/hollow_knight.app/```
** **
Linux File Paths:
```Save Files: ~/.config/unity3d/Team Cherry/Hollow Knight/
Game Files: ~/.local/share/Steam/steamapps/common/Hollow Knight/```

[hallow orchid]

you copy and paste the file into your save files path ^

[leaden python]

savestates, not saves :)

[hallow orchid]

oh

I saw .dat I assumed saves

[radiant pewter]

Oh I meant the saves I guess

from speedrun.com

[hallow orchid]

is it named like userX.dat?

[leaden python]

debug mod repository has the info in the readme: https://github.com/cerpintext/DebugMod/blob/1.2.2.1/README.md#savestates

ah you actually did mean saves lol

nice confusion, cuz we have both saves and savestates. Then use what mathulu said

[radiant pewter]

yes

I don't have a HK folder in appdata...

[hallow orchid]

yeah lol it can be confusing. Just a heads up that if you're replacing the files in your saves folder you can be overwriting your saves

[radiant pewter]

oh nvm

I'm stupid lol

[hallow orchid]

if it's e.g. user4.dat, that will overwrite the save in slot 4. I recommend backing up your save files before doing it

[radiant pewter]

Yeah I figured it out now, thanks a lot for your help

[knotty vigil]

im still trying to figure out what cat to do next now that im in the top 100 for cp any%. any suggestions on cp runs?

[hallow orchid]

-> #misc-runs-nmg

[peak marsh]

role block

[dreamy bough]

-> #misc-runs 👀

[peak marsh]

same

[hallow orchid]

yeah but you can look at them still

misc-runs is glitched version, misc-runs-nmg has a spreadsheet pinned with every meme category you can imagine with routes for most of them

[knotty vigil]

im not a fan of meme cats

maybe nkg% could be fun though

[stray kestrel]

think of them more as extensions than memes

some of them are memey but others are actually really good (not that memes are bad)

[dreamy bough]

you could also improve your any% time

[knotty vigil]

until i just now looked at the rules i thought elegy% was speedrunning getting the elegy of hallownest lol

[hallow orchid]

yeah just play what you want, you can run any category on current patch if you are willing, misc runs just have the largest group of cp runners outside of all skills and any%

[knotty vigil]

ok

i really wanna do 112% but i haven't even beaten p5 yet

i like cats that are big but not too big

[hallow orchid]

boy have we got about a dozen meme categories for you 👀

I think you may actually enjoy All Skills though, in that case

if you do left side All skills route on cp it's good practice for 112% eventually

[stray kestrel]

there's also nice% (69%) which is kinda like a 1xx lite i hear

[knotty vigil]

yeah that's the other one i was looking at

what's nice%

oh im dumb

didn't read haha

it's not on src though i don't think

[stray kestrel]

its not but quacksilver has a big spreadsheet of less-run memes

the ones on src are mostly older and more popular ones but the spreadsheet has a bunch of them that might cater to what you'd like to do/learn

[knotty vigil]

should i do all skills cp or nkg%

[low bramble]

all skills cp

[maiden bane]

nkg

[stray kestrel]

you could try them both out and see what you like more

[maiden bane]

That's the actual answer yeah

[stray kestrel]

both i thnink have lots of movement, but nkg% has more interesting boss fights

[knotty vigil]

im not sure i have the mental fortitude to try 2 cats

learning any%cp was hard enough

and that route is really easy

[stray kestrel]

even just two runs with notes up, not entirely going for speed could help you figure it out.

[knotty vigil]

maybe yeah

[hallow orchid]

yeah slowruns are great for new categories

just pull up the notes slap on a timer but don't worry about optimizations and play through it to see how you like it

[knotty vigil]

yeah i'll try that

but which one first?

i think nkg% is shorter

[stray kestrel]

they're roughly the same

[hallow orchid]

^

[knotty vigil]

really?

huh

all skills cp has a guide on src though

im looking at emrays

[onyx spade]

if you’ve learned any% cp why not learn spelless 🙂

[stray kestrel]

or any% steel soul?

[knotty vigil]

isn't that the one where you kill elder baldur with the nail?

[onyx spade]

Yep

[stray kestrel]

it is

[knotty vigil]

that sounds terrible

[stray kestrel]

either that or farm geo for 20 mins

[onyx spade]

ignoring that it’s a cool category

[knotty vigil]

what are "geo nodes"? is it just geo?

[onyx spade]

Yeah the geo rocks

[knotty vigil]

ah

[hallow orchid]

I don't know when #speedrunning became #misc-runs-indoctrination but I'm glad it did

[stray kestrel]

hey math you should try 4ms nmms

[onyx spade]

Misc runs are so fun

[knotty vigil]

is all skills misc?

[low bramble]

my cp all skills

[onyx spade]

Nope

[hallow orchid]

All Skills is a main board cat

[knotty vigil]

ok

[stray kestrel]

#all-skills

[knotty vigil]

unfortunately i can't post questions there yet

[stray kestrel]

have you submitted your any% and are just waiting on verification?

[knotty vigil]

im waiting

[stark birch]

how many minutes of meme indoctrination that I was not tagged for smfh

[dreamy bough]

lots quack

[stark birch]

If you are looking for an introductory extension category and one that generally maps on to other mainboard cats well, I think NKG is very suited for that. There's no run-specific movement tech that bears practicing on its own (like for instance QGA in any% or the isma's skips/darkrooms in all skills), so it's an excellent proving ground for just having good room movement and boss fights

The most optimized version of the category is overcharmed for most of the run, but that's not necessary for a good time, and honestly I think the overcharming is good general speedrun practice as well for keeping your health up without healing for long segments and trying to mitigate bad RNG/bad boss beats

also you get to style on NKG with low-equipment, and coming from someone who had to beat NKG casually in a multi-hour slog leaning heavily on sharp shadow it's a whole vibe to dunk on him in 5 minutes or less with nail 0 and no wings/shade cloak lol

[knotty vigil]

yeah i had to write a guide in a notebook for myself on how to beat nkg and probably took at least 2 hours of playing to beat him

but i didn't know there were no wings in that cat

[stark birch]

scrolling up I see it's been mentioned before, but if you check the pins in #misc-runs-nmg there is a spreadsheet that has a TON of non-src extensions, as well as routes for a couple SRC runs (including NKG%), and for non-src stuff there's whatever videos I could find for the category, if you wanted to peek through 🙂

[knotty vigil]

ok thanks

one more question though if you're still here

do you think i should do all skills cp or nkg%?

[stray kestrel]

quack is going to answer nkg% guaranteed

[stark birch]

my bias is definitely NKG, but it depends what you're into in a speedrun and its context

thanks to the tournament, all skills cp is more generally competitive, and some of the speedtech there maps out to larger categories as well (like if you wanted to do 1xx knowing the isma's skips is a good thing)

NKG has a smaller run crew, but they are quite dedicated (ItsOtter is insanely in the lab for the Grimm fights), and it's more about optimizing quote-unquote-"easy" stuff than getting "hard" tech down

NKG's real pain points are all at the end (unless you overcharm the whole way), with wingless hive and the NKG fight himself, whereas All Skills has them spread out a bit (early Sanctum, two different darkrooms at different points in the run, late Hornet Sentinel), which depending on how/how often you practice and do runs could draw you to one category over the other

[knotty vigil]

so all skills has dark rooms? ive tried learning them before and it didn't go well

[stray kestrel]

cpeak dark room and dark rooms from qg to dv

[stark birch]

All Skills does the CPeaks darkroom to Descending Dark and Deepnest dark from QG to Beast's Den

[knotty vigil]

sounds awful

i think ill start out with nkg then and after that ill branch to all skills

[stray kestrel]

neither are as hard in practice as they sound imo

[stark birch]

yeah there's a reason all skills gets generally recommended as a beginner run and why I always go to bat for NKG over most other extensions; definitely "easy to learn hard to master" vibes 🙂

[knotty vigil]

yeah

imma go find that spreadsheet now

[wind spear]

Alternatively, you can just pick whatever sounds the most fun to you

[knotty vigil]

i could honestly go either way

[wind spear]

I like 4ms, it has practically 0 difficult skips and it really fun to run for me. But that's all my opinion

[stray kestrel]

yea i think your best bet then is go through the run once or twice and see what you like

[stark birch]

the real power move is to run everything and switch categories every time you hit a wall instead of practicing

[stray kestrel]

also i'd suggest using debug mode so you dont get stuck at a single point and can just continue with the run

[knotty vigil]

does all skills cp have any skips that any% cp doesn't? i really enjoy learning new skips

[digital jewel]

yeah quite a few. including getting ismas tear without killing dung defender

[knotty vigil]

oh that one looks hard

[wind spear]

Is that not a spike tunnel?

[knotty vigil]

it's the spike skip right?

[stray kestrel]

also if you like skips, you might enjoy rando

[digital jewel]

spike tunnel and then two acid skips

[wind spear]

Ouch, lol

[onyx spade]

quack almost just convinced me to run nkg%

[knotty vigil]

is rando even a speedrun cat?

[wind spear]

It sure is, it's one that I've been thinking about running once I'm done with 4ms lol

[stray kestrel]

not really but its really good for just learning general movement and such that can be applied to speedruns down the line

[exotic thunder]

random seed leaderboard when

would be hype to see people grind for wr in that imo

[digital jewel]

[mild moon]

[exotic thunder]

dont maggotPrime me

[wind spear]

I'd be all for that. Random seed randomizers would be a blast

[hallow orchid]

[grizzled maple]

I once had a rando seed with all of the dreamers and void heart in both crossroads and right side city. It took about 45 minutes and most of that was trying to fight radiance with only nail 0 and ddive

[mild moon]

Randomizer updates too frequently for any seed-dependent categories imo

[stiff delta]

im about it honestly

[grizzled maple]

i had VS too but it was kinda useless against her lol

[wind spear]

I guess that's fair, maybe once it stabilizes and chills with the updates

[hallow orchid]

Rando is amazing, if you want to speedrun a random seed, join in rando races instead of a leaderboard though, so rng is fixed between racers

[peak marsh]

can you spike tunnel the other way? probably not as people would do it in all skills but just asking

[exotic thunder]

just stop updating it

[hallow orchid]

You can but you need an airstall

[mild moon]

Then other people update it anyways

[hallow orchid]

Homothety stopped updating it a while ago

[frank obsidian]

Enemy rando is epic, combine with item rando, and it's

[peak marsh]

enemy rando + item rando + room rando

what could possibly go wrong

[stiff delta]

all rando leaderboard when

[wind spear]

Sometimes you just get a Dreamer as your first drop and have to crawl through IC. It's both a blessing and a curse

[hallow orchid]

I will accept arguments for a rando leaderboard once people have run the plando that has a leaderboard

[strong vessel]

Infected vengefly pogos though!

[mild moon]

more plando leaderboards when

[stark birch]

update plandoplando to allow random grimm flames and I'll redo Nightmare Heart Surgery into a single player plando

[mild moon]

That's an issue with ItemChanger, not plandoplando

some day

[stark birch]

ok but I still take it up with you right? 👀

[stray kestrel]

nightmare heart surgery?

[stark birch]

the plando/custom bingo board I did with two diverging paths branching off of two different stags at Iselda; end goal was kill NKG in-tent without help from Brumm

[hallow orchid]

Mayo were you not around for nightmare heart surgery?

[stray kestrel]

maybe but i dont remember it

that might have been around the time i joined and didnt know what was going on

[hallow orchid]

I don't remember how long ago it was but I feel like you've been around forever

[dull jacinth]

i hope i dont bother with this noob question, is any% nmg 1.2.2.1 and current patch so different? or just minor stuff that makes the run slower? im sorry im googling the question but i cant find an answer

[frank obsidian]

what is plandoplando

[dull jacinth]

i want to start with that category but i want to decide the version 😄

[hallow orchid]

They are very similar

1221 is a bit easier and faster, but you have to downpatch for it

Major time save for 1221 is the lever skip in spire and the fact that you can skip 3 dreamer cutscenes, other than that it's all minor

[stray kestrel]

if you have the game on GOG downpatching is super easy compared to steam

[onyx spade]

Also mid air inventory drops

[dull jacinth]

so you guys recommend that i start with 1.2.2.1? 😄

[wind spear]

Absolutely!

[onyx spade]

If your pc can run it, sure

[hallow orchid]

If your computer can handle it it's the better beginner choice yeah

[peak marsh]

wait 1.4.3.2 is easier on the pc than 1.2.2.1? lmao

i mean, cpu and stuff like that

[hallow orchid]

No 1.2.2.1 is easier, it just runs much worse

[dull jacinth]

is really 1.2.2.1 that bad on pc? 😛

[wind spear]

I ended up doing CP because downpatching was too complex for my small brain lol. I figured it out eventually though

[hallow orchid]

Oh mb yeah 1221 runs like garbage

[stiff delta]

1221 is poorly optimized

[dull jacinth]

@wind spear did you changed to 1221 after figured how to downpatch?

[wind spear]

Yeah, I run 1221 nowadays

[peak marsh]

well then i'm not speedrunning anytime soon, 1.4.3.2 barely runs for me already

[stray kestrel]

or you could run 1028 and do nmms categories

[peak marsh]

lmao

[hallow orchid]

I mean you can speedrun on 1.4.3.2

[stray kestrel]

its the natural progression of things right