career-advice

[topaz rain]

So how and where do I apply

[dapper bane]

are there not any local companies in ur region or startups ?

[topaz rain]

And if I'm done with the project can I send it to you

[topaz rain]

No

[dapper bane]

just put it here so everybody can give remarks

[topaz rain]

Okay I might send the link 🖇️

[dapper bane]

make sure there is no personal information being revealed

[topaz rain]

Okay

[dapper bane]

keep on applying on internship if u dont get internship try your best to do open source I know the code base will be tough but u have to have some work to show

there are open source projects related to django

[topaz rain]

Now , my question is where, what site, app. That's it

[whole flare]

Any reason as to why one experience uses a length of time and the other uses a date?

[dapper bane]

i didnt remeber the month i did the internship lol

[whole flare]

[dapper bane]

i mean exactly the month

[topaz rain]

Please guys I need an answer

[true harness]

to apply? linkedin is good

[topaz rain]

Hmm, that's where I get confused I don't know where to see job to suite my intern service

[copper ledge]

Do you guys put repo links for each project or just your github at the top of your resume?

[balmy flax]

Depends , you can do either or both

[wispy lichen]

When you apply to jobs is it true they don’t really spend a lot of time looking at your resume? Maybe even less likely that they will look at my website?
I’m just hesitant to add my site cuz it’s so mid idk

[fringe sphinx]

It's complicated to answer: when screening hundreds of resumes, no, not a lot of time. But, screeners have a lot of practice and are pattern matching.

[fast fossil]

regex mentioned /s

[fringe sphinx]

But, as you progress past screen to pre interview (ie: phone screen) to interview, your resume gets referenced a lot.

By the time a final decision rolls around, your resume might play a significant role.

[wispy lichen]

So resume is priority not so much a personal website? A lot of the info on the site is the same info as in the resume but w more detail ig.

[fringe sphinx]

Yes, a resume is what you submit to a job, not a website

[wispy lichen]

Yeah I just know that they have adding supplementary links as an option

Ty for your help!!

[smoky quest]

The further in the pipeline, the more they can afford to spend time on you.
You should aim at having your resume stand on its own without relying on anyone reading any extra link. It's your one page advertisement for your 👏 demonstrated 👏 skills 👏
That said, any extra information can become useful down the line, especially if they are on the fence or if it pertains to the role

[wispy lichen]

Got it tyy

[urban kelp]

I have zero knowledge of programming. Can anyone suggest which programming language I should pick to start learning programming

[fringe sphinx]

Python is probably the most popular first language right now.

[urban kelp]

Alright There is no need to learn Java or c++ as basic languages?

[fringe sphinx]

You have to start somewhere

[smoky quest]

Most people will learn all of them as part of their education. They are just tools, means to an end

In terms of career, a degree will be the path of least resistance and with the most opportunities and compensation.

[urban kelp]

I don't have a degree In Computer science tho

[smoky quest]

Then this will be a path with far more resistance, less opportunities and less compensation

[urban kelp]

Sadly

Any suggestions

[smoky quest]

for?

[urban kelp]

For Deciding A career in programming

[smoky quest]

Sure. Look at job ads to see what they ask and what's available. Look on google for the various lists about career, etc.

[urban kelp]

Alright..

Brother are you a software developer?

[alpine helm]

yo does uni actually take you in depth of programming in cs or is it just like general information about data and computers and other stuff

[smoky quest]

It does take you in depth. Though the area and level of depth will depend on the country/university/specific degree

University/college are also different from high school in the sense they treat you as an adult. This means you should not be expected to be hand held all the way. They will show you doors, it will up to you to take them, put the effort and ask your teachers for help or pointers

[true harness]

undergrad is relatively general, in that it covers a lot of topics

[fringe sphinx]

If you're interested, you should look at degree requirements for a local University, which lists all the courses you'd take. For example; https://guide.berkeley.edu/undergraduate/degree-programs/electrical-engineering-computer-sciences/#majorrequirementstext

[onyx mauve]

I want to be a software developer or a web developer

wich is better

[twilit portal]

What do you mean by "better"?

[fringe sphinx]

Web devs are software devs. There's never simple answers to questions like 'which is better' or best

[fringe sphinx]

But regardless, the first steps are the same for any programming field: learn a language, get good at it, then keep learning

[acoustic plaza]

Is software engineer job market difficult

Bc of this

[fringe sphinx]

Where's that quote from?

[tulip vector]

what are these skills?

[acoustic plaza]

Reddit

[acoustic plaza]

I do not know sorry

[fringe sphinx]

Entry level engineers are finding jobs. Anecdotally; we rarely hear from degreed candidates with good resumes who have trouble finding jobs. It takes some effort, and it's not as fast as it used to be, but people are finding jobs

[acoustic plaza]

I been told going to top unis in uk such as Cambridge or imperial college london(im in uk)
Will make me have an advantage with internship and connections to build my experience and other stuff

[fringe sphinx]

Sure, but that doesn't mean you're screwed if you don't.

[acoustic plaza]

Thank you for the help

[fringe sphinx]

Also, there's lots of other things you can do to differentiate and network. Projects, OSS contributions, volunteering, clubs, etc. it's not just your studies.

[acoustic plaza]

Ill try do internships when im older to build up my experience
And make portfolio

[fringe sphinx]

Closing thought: Don't worry about 'portfolio', that happens as a byproduct. Just focus on learning... part of learning should be projects.

[acoustic plaza]

Ok
Ill continue slowly learning python steadily and ye move on from there in the future

[glass silo]

what is the avg age to get a job at comps?

[fringe sphinx]

What?

What's the job?

[glass silo]

i joined school early ig we can leave it

what is the avg age u guys get a job?

[fringe sphinx]

Usually college grad, so average age is average age of a college grad

[fast fossil]

would that put them below or above average 😄

[glass silo]

so it is 23

ill be 20 when i pass out from my clg

[smoky quest]

Nice!
But it's not a race. Speed running means you are missing on valuable learning

[glass silo]

yea i miss my knowledge from my kindergard- cuz thats what i skipped

[smoky quest]

Indeed

[fringe sphinx]

Internship opportunity or a full time job?

[glass silo]

currently interning at other comp, full time offered at 2025 (15s cooldown is insane)

[fast fossil]

so you will pass on that opportunity to start working full-time now?

[glass silo]

no- ill finish it off, its 2025 right

do achievements matter in resumes*/hiring? do they have to be 100% transferable?

[fast fossil]

are you going to an interview at the same company you're interning at now or are you going to another company that offers full-time starting 2025?

[glass silo]

another one

[fast fossil]

and that other one offers a full-time position starting next year?

[glass silo]

yea

[smoky quest]

It depends on how relevant it is to the job and how much of an authority are the people delivering said achievement(s)

[glass silo]

for smth like a core sde role, ml achievements may/may not matter

[fringe sphinx]

Ooh, you're interviewing for next year, now I understand

Ok, interview advice:

[glass silo]

and in case if ur major's different (mine's elec) applying to a cs job even having a 3.6/4GPA (original: 9.13/10) wouldnt matter ig

[fringe sphinx]

You don't know everything. You can't know everything. So: Don't panic when they ask you a question you don't know an answer to. Talk it out, explain your thought process, ask clarifying questions, and don't panic.

[glass silo]

sure

[fringe sphinx]

This is where people usually make a mistake; they go quiet, they don't take feedback or hints from interviewer, they get uncomfortable, etc

[smoky quest]

It's like a distance function

[glass silo]

okay will try that- any tips for dp?

[fringe sphinx]

Dp?

[glass silo]

dynamic programming*- this is where i suck

might not be for the upcoming interview, but your tip could help in a long run

[smoky quest]

Two main things:

• Pick up a book on DSA like https://mitpress.mit.edu/9780262046305/introduction-to-algorithms/
• Practice with leetcode, hackerrank, etc.

Don't start with leetcode prior to learning about the topic of DSA

[glass silo]

1. makes me cry- ive been reading it for a long time
2. i only solved 260 on leetcode so im tryin

[fast fossil]

speaking of books on DSA, I like this one https://theswissbay.ch/pdf/Gentoomen Library/Algorithms/Algorithms in C.pdf

[smoky quest]

That's a signal you need more of 1.

I and people in my circles only do 4-5 leetcode at most before interviews and we get plenty of offers

[glass silo]

we get offers too, but our interviewers are too naive to pick a hard leetcode question and give it

[smoky quest]

skill issue.
Getting DP or hard leetcode is not abnormal

[glass silo]

yea leetcode hards take time, so the benefit would be for that person who solved 800 leetcodes

[smoky quest]

No. That's not how it works

[glass silo]

okay?

[smoky quest]

yep

[glass silo]

how does it work

[glass silo]

this is cool, thanks for the tip!

[smoky quest]

#career-advice message

you can either spend an hour reading a chapter or weeks trying to reverse engineer the topic from hundreds of leetcode

[fringe sphinx]

Nothing you can fix in 24 hours

[glass silo]

tru

[glass silo]

..

[fringe sphinx]

If anything, prepare for the easy questions, like: 'tell me about yourself'

[fast fossil]

and prepare some questions for the interviewer as well, I've heard asking questions of your own is a good idea

[glass silo]

thanks for the tips guys! i gtg @fringe sphinx @fast fossil @smoky quest

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, not having good questions = not wanting the job

[outer rivet]

I'm trying to learn AWS features in prep for an interview, but I don't know how to create a database without costing me. It says it's in free tier, but both options for configuring Dynamo and RDS are saying they'll cost me

Any help?

[smoky quest]

sounds like a better question for either #databases or #tools-and-devops

[pastel glade]

Guys

I'm only in highshool, but I wanna explore future career possibilities, and I'm kinda leaning to Biomedical Engineering or Biotechnology at the moment- this is, I dont really understand the difference and what, exactly, either job can do properly

Does anyone really know?

[strange nova]

Only the latter sounds vaguely related to programming, and ultimately that's the domain of this server.

[pastel glade]

gee thanks

sorry

tired

thanks

[near socket]

Can anyone help me with a big decision, needing some help with it. Going into DSA (data structure & algorithm) this upcoming semester. I just finished OOP 2 (objected oriented programming) this last semester. I didn't get a great grasp at it at all due to other harder courses that I needed to work hard on. I just transferred to a harder uni and I don't think the OOP class I took will prepare at all for DSA. Should I drop the dsa course and repeat OOP 2 at this university? Or should I tough it out and do dsa here and prioritize this class to save time & money?

[smoky quest]

That might be tough but I would suggest to pursue both, be it with a proper class or on your own.

The head first design pattern was a great book to pick up on OOP and design patterns at the same time and they got a 2nd edition out not too long ago

Generally speaking, DSA should come before OOP though

[near socket]

Ooh okay. So do you advise just taking DSA now and pushing through it by just spending extra hours studying and you think I'll stay afloat? I will be studying oop stuff like polymorphism, inheritance, etc. simutaneously as I find time between other courses

[smoky quest]

With effort you should be fine. But I can't speak for how you feel or how much effort you can spare into it.

Though:

• Pick up a book on the topic. https://mitpress.mit.edu/9780262046305/introduction-to-algorithms/ is a great book on DSA
• Feel free to ask question in this discord server about DSA

But ngl, learning OOP prior to learning DSA would be hella confusing.

DSA is about writing the algorithms and leveraging datastructures while OOP is about the bigger vision about how to structure your code. So I would venture that doing DSA might help understand better OOP afterward

[near socket]

Oooh okay. Yeah I'm really confused as to why it's flipped then. Cause OOP 2 is a requirement to take this DSA course. I'll probably take this class then and at the same time anytime something new comes up that I need from the oop course I'll self learn it online.

I'll pick up that book. I think OOP is the more important thing I need to selflearn rather than DSA as the course seems pretty structured

[near socket]

Thanks alot, this defo helped ease me lmao

[strange nova]

DSA is hard

I think u need time for both

[near socket]

This is the DSA course syllabus

[smoky quest]

yeah standard intro. You will do great

[near socket]

This is the OOP class that is a pre-req to that class ^ @smoky quest

You think it'll be all good then?

[smoky quest]

In general OOP classes are about classes, their design, how you model solutions with multiple classes and design patterns. Recursion and sort are more for DSA

[smoky quest]

yeah, it may sound scary the first time you hear about these things, but it will be fine

Study hard and ask plenty of questions and you will conquer them in no time

[near socket]

Okay okay. My biggest thing is if I have to drop down to the OOP course I lose time more than just money as I think it'll push graduation by a semester

[near socket]

I shall. thank you so much for everything, genuinely means a lot. Especially the encouraging words

[smoky quest]

I can't help much on the scheduling front though

[near socket]

I've heard 😭 - I think I'll be able to attend courses for a week and change incase its too hard to start with; I'll try pushing myself and ask the prof this question at the start too

Fair haha

[smoky quest]

You can also start studying DSA before the course start as to give yourself a head start

[strange nova]

Code it 👍

[near socket]

I signed up for intro to python on Udemy I'm gonna do the course this week just a speed run to touch on everything so it isnt the very first time I see it in the class!

I think I'll also explain everything to the prof on the first day and see his thoughts on it. I'm sure if I tell him I'm gonna work hard/want advice on how to excel and get active with him he'll give good input

[smoky quest]

nice!

That's the right attitude!

[strange nova]

I try to find out if my registration is cooked in the morning

Might have had idea to do this too late

[smoky quest]

Only one way to know

[vapid jay]

Any resume advice? I'm looking for job in data analysis

[civic ocean]

bra someone help me run a code idk anything ab python

[vapid jay]

python file.py

[lilac sundial]

Is c++ a good lang to learn

Also are there any huge benefits to not using an ide

[tidal oar]

Looks ok to me, however, if you have the time put some stuff on GH and/or kaggle. Some notebook where you wrangle some complex data would help a lot.

As an interviewer I can tell you that those things are what makes you stand out from the 10s or 100s of other applicants with similar pedigree. Also, seeing how you work "in real life" makes me give you the benefit of the doubt if the interview went so-so.

[tidal oar]

and obviously link them in the CV 😄

[vapid jay]

Would an NLP project be a good thing to add or should I go for the basic data cleaning -> model -> visualize

[tidal oar]

It definitely helps. However, I'd say having the "data massaging" skills on display helps a lot. Even the fanciest data scientist in the world needs to do that sometimes. If you want a job more on the data scientist side of the spectrum then having some NLP/models on display is necessary.

[peak halo]

the senior members of my department are some of the fanciest NLP data scientists in the world, and they massage data all the time.

[copper ledge]

Is it still worth it to mass apply for internships as a rising sophomore? Or should I focus more on networking?

[true harness]

why not both

[vernal narwhal]

how ?

[peak halo]

You should try to get internships every summer.

[copper ledge]

Should I spend more effort in to networking for internships or just more volume of applications?

[near ocean]

A good balance of both

[buoyant seal]

Spend also most measure of effort into your own self studies and pet projects meant for long term development and maintaince.

The sands of time will erase everything. Persistent effort of investment into yourself will remain

[mighty belfry]

Hello everyone. I'm using Wellfound to apply for employment. I was asked, "What interests you about working for the company?" throughout the application process.

I'm lost, and I'd like your advice on what and how I should express my introductions here. How do I introduce myself.

[smoky quest]

Main advice here is show, don't tell

[mighty belfry]

can you elaborate

[smoky quest]

Your internship doesn't say much beyond "I wrote some code". It doesn't show expertise or skills

[vapid jay]

For introductions I do: Name, educational background, previous work experience, and a fun fact.

[near ocean]

you should talk more about what the projects do, instead of repeating what they use
you have a line with techs used next to the title, you dont need to explain what the parts of MERN are right under

[smoky quest]

People think superman is strong because they see him lifting cars with one hand, not because he keeps saying he is strong

[vapid jay]

Why you want to work here: do research on their company/school and make up a reason

[mighty belfry]

Now?

any suggestion or improvement?

[shadow badge]

I went for an interview today for "Laravel Developer" and I feel like I don't know a thing.
Like I have 3 years of Experience in Web Development including multiple frameworks Django, Codeignitor, Mern, Flask, Wordpress etc
Interviewer asked me following questions:
Octane
Event listener data passing
Filters
Service
Service provider
I know there are 1 or 2 questions that are pretty easy to answer. I have never created a custom service or Event listeners or using Octane that is pretty new so I wasn't able to answer them and I felt like I have wasted my whole 3 years creating only basic level applications and yes they are deployed and were made for clients.
This is the age of Afticial Intelligence and documentation so it is easy to implement or understand new concepts even if you don't know.

Point is is it necessary to always know everything about the framework that you are applying for bcz I have always viewed these frameworks as just tools to develop stuff and understood the concepts necessary to implement those features.
Are the interviews always like this? I thought they ask about DSA and logical thinking.

[mighty belfry]

now much better, i think? What do you think?

[smoky quest]

Not really. I still don't know what you coded except it was about an AR app.
For instance backend is pretty much always storing and retrieving user data.

What projects have you done specifically? What APIs have you written? What problem(s) have you solved specifically you, yourself?

You mentioned it's high performance and efficient. How so?

[lost fern]

I would reorder things, e.g for a data analyst job, put SQL, Python and R first, then HTML/CSS and C++. Likewise, put PowerBI first, then git. The way I understand "data analyst" the main skills would be SQL and PowerBI. If it is more towards data science, then Python/R and git becore more important. HTML might still be useful, especially if you are webscraping data, but secondary.

[mortal wedge]

Any tips/suggestions for someone that just got laid off?

[fringe sphinx]

Never have lunch alone.

Pack the next 7 days with lunch meetings and coffee chats with people you know.

[mortal wedge]

No severance or anything either, so I might need to find something asap

[fringe sphinx]

That sucks, sorry to hear that, I was hoping you were asking for someone else

[mortal wedge]

I wish I was. 4 years... gah

[fringe sphinx]

But for real: work your social network immediately

[mortal wedge]

Yeah

[fringe sphinx]

And of course, resume work, update and perhaps ask for critique here

Now's probably not the worst time: At least it's not holiday season

[mortal wedge]

Yeah, that's a good point

[smoky quest]

take a deep breadth and a few days off

[mortal wedge]

Thanks... definitely not the worst idea. I'm also recovering from COVID so... double whammy

[smoky quest]

yeah, it can be quite emotional and feeling vulnerable.
Putting some distance might help, but don't wait too long to get back on the saddle. It's not a reflection of your skills or yourself

[mortal wedge]

Already sent out an application today ^_^. Thanks, I'll try to keep that in mind

[fallen vector]

my heart goes out to you man, everything will be alright

[mortal wedge]

Thanks 🙂

[balmy spade]

A little late to the original ask but my only tip that hasn't been said is this:

It's not a reflection on you, it's a choice of company. Layoff/firing is a blow to the self esteem like few others. Show me someone who "isn't bothered by it" and I'll suggest, politely, they are in denial. ;)

You got this. You did it before with even less knowledge than you have today.

[mortal wedge]

That's a good point. Thank you!

[balmy spade]

The first time I lost a job... oof. Was not expecting that emotional baggage. I think that's why it's so important to roll right into the momentum of what is next.

[cyan mica]

Hello guys any insight of becoming a data analyst or a software engineer because am a bit confuse

[cobalt moat]

Go to college unless in USA, in USA go to college if you can afford it

[lilac sundial]

Is c++ a good lang to learn

[pastel quail]

does anyone have feedback to help me improve my resume? applying mainly for swe internships next summer

[strange nova]

Huh I got a response about a job to code in django but they said "this is not an entry lvl position" 😅 probably an automated response so don't know if I would factor that into my hit rate

Could take the interview and ask for less than the minimum they are offering

[strange nova]

You could exnay the part about the one week bootcamp and try to tell more about each of your projects

[blazing tendon]

Petri dish,
With your use of Python for the images of DNA, do you have a link to the project.
I have written a little instruction manual for how to launch a free guthub website. You can use a template from another GitHub project and then add your projects.

[lapis walrus]

can someone explain to me what is github?

[vapid jay]

The short version is github is a code library.

That is, as you develop your code, you can store versions, branches, and reusable bit.

I'ts really much more and the Wikipedia site would be more help than I have been.

[lapis walrus]

Ok, thanks "world of coding" server wasn't so nice like this

what did i do?
😕

[vapid jay]

Some people hate themselves and have no compassion for others. They're everywhere in the interwebs.

[lapis walrus]

k

[true harness]

wow... yikes

[fleet reef]

Ask in #python-discussion
GitHub has nothing to do with the topic of this channel

[fleet reef]

WTF
That’s rude
DM @severe widget please

[vapid jay]

I was "forced", during my first computer job, to be a tutor as well as a coder. Helped me against my will to understand we're all idiots sometimes. And we none of us have time enough to be rude. Please remind me if I forget.

[vapid jay]

Yes, sorry about that.

[lapis walrus]

Thanks guys

[lapis walrus]

Ok

[indigo saddle]

Anyone wanna work on a Stock graph prediction program. I have the base code down and uses 5+ algs to calc predictions and other features

[fleet reef]

We don’t really do hiring in this server

[indigo saddle]

who said im hiring anyone lmfao

im asking if someone wants to have fun making this program

[fleet reef]

No worries
Totally fine to give someone a quick answer and then push them to the right channel
ie “GitHub is a place to store and share your code and its history, you can ask more about it in #python-discussion or #tools-and-devops “

[blazing tendon]

How do Python programmers show their projects. Is there another way then.

[smoky quest]

to whom? For what purpose? In which context?

[blazing tendon]

For employers, I study HR and some of the recruiters were saying they don’t know how to test applicants for programming

Would it be best just to get certified then

[smoky quest]

certifications ensure a minimum, not a maximum

They also introduce some perverse incentives

So in terms of showing employers your project, it depends also at which stage we are talking about and in what context.
For instance at the initial filtering phase, you don't have time to spend on each candidate. So you rely on their descriptions in their past experiences and projects.

In later phase you can also look at their projects.
But you also have to be mindful to avoid biases and judge based on the same criteria for all the candidates

[strange nova]

Ignore biases- hire Sorrow-san

[smoky quest]

have you gotten an answer about the acceptance of your school?

[strange nova]

Yes, I can start next month on a shorter semester! I guess my day will be jam packed

[smoky quest]

congrats!

[strange nova]

Tyty

I have so much to work towards now- getting job responses and also this hahaha

I'm trying to balance my day out that's been an issue for a while now, just write my most important two tasks down like people said and split my day between those.
•math
•backend
•apply job
•make git commits
•repeat

[lilac sundial]

Does fstack pay more than bckend , frtend and devops

[smoky quest]

they both pay well. The rest depend on your impact and skill and location and etc.

[lilac sundial]

Alr

If its not too much to ask , what skills would you recommend i develop. As of now im looking into nodejs react and typescript

[strange nova]

I think this is a tough question because it's gonna be hard to get a job without a degree. Definitely good to practice everything in programming though. Node and TS are good.

[lilac sundial]

Im doing my ug rn

And im going over to the states for post graduation

[strange nova]

Ah cool, what's "ug" stand for?

[pine sleet]

undergraduate probably

[lilac sundial]

Undergrad yeah

[pine sleet]

those don't sound like skills

[lilac sundial]

Well what would come under skills

[smoky quest]

focus on the fundamentals for now

[pine sleet]

what field are you trying to go into?

[smoky quest]

anyone can learn react in an afternoon, but the fundamentals take far more time

[pine sleet]

yeah. react has some philosophies about how you go about using it, often times called "think react"
takes time to build up that mindset, but a lot of those philosophies transfer across to other frameworks

[lilac sundial]

So what i specified falls under fundamentals minus react

[smoky quest]

no

[pine sleet]

so if you corner yourself into "just knowing react" and an employer uses svelte in their stack, you would have a much harder time of it getting adjusted than another candidate who has focused on the fundamentals and has knowledge that is transferrable and can pick up a new stack quickly

[lilac sundial]

Dym just the basic popular langs like js java pyth and so on

[smoky quest]

fundamentals would be more like DSA, graph theory, compression, encryption, networking, operating systems, compilers, etc

[smoky quest]

any professional engineer can pick up a new programming language in a day. Not complicated nor fundamentals

The most difficult part is your first language. And beyond that, you would benefit from learning some languages across the different paradigms (oop, fp, logic, etc.). But nothing makes js or java or python special beyond that

[lilac sundial]

What route would you suggest i take then , pretty vague question , but atm ik python and java at a level where i can solve most college level questions(armstrong , star pattern etc)

[pine sleet]

work on projects, all of those things r_e mentioned are fair game for projects

i.e write your own os, write your own compiler, implement a compression algorithm, etc

[lilac sundial]

Mhmm

Recursiv _error wdym by operating systems and compilers. Like the different kinds? Like how stuff runs on each platform?

[smoky quest]

no. Make your own

[lilac sundial]

Alr

[plain wing]

guys can you recommend some free resources to study pre calc and calc

guys do u hv a pdf for calc by james stewart and michael spevak

[quartz aspen]

I'm late to the party, but at unis in Poland classes called "operating systems" are about inner works of POSIX and writing posix stuff (in C). That might also be worth looking at, as the details about posix are literally how most systems work internally (windows is it's own bag of worms, some stuff is mostly compatible with posix like sockets...)

[fringe sphinx]

You can certainly find Stewart online, but the calc texts on OpenStax are excellent and have interactive examples

[fringe sphinx]

I like MIT OCWs calc courses (I used them as a refresher a few years ago), but Professor Leonard is probably a more friendlier teacher for new students.

But my absolute favorite Calc resource is: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLBE9407EA64E2C318&feature=shared

These videos are also good: https://www.3blue1brown.com/topics/calculus, I'd watch both.

[muted spire]

If there is a problem and I want to report it
Where should I write that down?
I mean in Python

[peak halo]

it's very unlikely that you've encountered a bug, unless maybe you're working with an unreleased version. but the bug tracker is here: https://github.com/python/cpython/issues

[true harness]

<@&831776746206265384>

[fringe pine]

!cban 1042552535711502376 Spam

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied ban to @dark tundra permanently.

[outer siren]

hi guys just taking a course lol

[potent geode]

which one ?

[kindred oyster]

ask in #python-discussion , this is the wrong channel

[vapid jay]

New to discord 😁
Sorry

[kindred oyster]

no worries 👍

for future reference, if you want to know what a channel is about, it will be usually written in the channel description which you can view by clicking on the channel name written at the top

[vapid jay]

Ok

[brave cove]

WHY I CAN'T FIND A JOB

💀

[smoky quest]

Take it like a sales pipeline and try to identify where you are having troubles so that you can improve there

[peak halo]

can you post a large, readable, anonymized image of your resume in this chat?

[faint depot]

I understand how you feel. Even applying for a simple supermarket job is difficult af. Its fucked when I could get into the army easier than getting a bog standard job

[lost fern]

you are an explosives expert, of course it would be easier in the army

but there are some civilian jobs, maybe in mines/quarries?

[pastel thunder]

on first day,
for men,
is there nothing formal apart from shirt?
Is that really all the option we got for "formal"

[fringe sphinx]

Huh? You're asking what to wear on first day of work?

[pastel thunder]

its my first "first day"

[fringe sphinx]

What country and job?

Didn't you already have a job? Just wear whatever you wore for last job.

[pastel thunder]

India, SDE(Related)
last job was Work from home

[fringe sphinx]

Oh I dunno what India customs are for work attire.

[pastel thunder]

but like, shirt is formal, what else?

[final ravine]

Do you have a recruiter?

[vapid jay]

Apply on the company sites, Linkedin is trash.

[pastel thunder]

yup, but would be wierd to ask

[vapid jay]

Indeed, Linkedin, Zip(BLEH)-cruiter are trash.

[fringe sphinx]

Why would that be weird? "What's work attire in this office?"

[final ravine]

No it's not, recruiter takes 20-30% of your salary if you pass probation

[vapid jay]

All I'm saying is? I got a job as a flagger by calling the company site and telling them I was ready to work, took 2 days.

[final ravine]

So if you get fired on your first day for not wearing clothes, they'll be very upset you didn't ask them

[pastel thunder]

ok lets see what he says
I dont want to wear a shirt and pant on first day. I look nerdy as hell in my oversized shirts, will have to make some arrangements

[true harness]

what is a flagger

[fringe sphinx]

What do you wear besides shirts and pants?

I'm so confused.

Don't go to work in shorts.

[pastel thunder]

like polo, tshirt
pants are fine

[vapid jay]

Basically, we Direct traffic while the Linemen (repair people) fix Poles, Transformers and move objects off the sides of the road, but most days we just put the cones and signs down and don't do much.

[fringe sphinx]

I always showed up to jobs in the US in dress shirt and slacks. I'd dress down after I got to know the company.

[vapid jay]

You know how you see the cones in the street some days and people with vests directing you to drive? That's what we do.

[true harness]

would that be related to software engineering

[pastel thunder]

just that I dont have many options for shirt, one is too tight, one is very oversized

[vapid jay]

It's what I'm doing to make some bucks while I build up my resume.

I literally code in the truck some days, and I get let go early on most days.

Also, I can't help but notice how much the company I work for needs tech.

[golden plank]

I'm justing starting my career. I want know where can i get best response and land job.

please can someone help me here

[fringe sphinx]

What's your education and country?

[golden plank]

I have done BCA. I have 4.5 year of experience in multiple companies. I'm from India but open to relocate or remote.

I'm open for any region

[fringe sphinx]

Do you have a job right now?

[golden plank]

Yes. but project is getting finished within a month. so I'm look for job.

[fringe sphinx]

Ok, that's good... having a month of paychecks is better than not 🙂

Advice:

1. Get your resume together, have it reviewed (you can submit it here, anonymized). 2. Network: never have lunch or dinner alone - friends, family friends, friends of friends, friends from school - etc. 3. Look on linkedin (or any job board) and understand what opportunities are out there - tailor your resume for those opportunities. Bonus. Refresh your technical knowledge - watch conference videos (for instance), do a side project, etc.

[golden plank]

Thanks, what are best job board? I have only used linkedin, naukri, indeed till date.

[fringe sphinx]

I don't know India, maybe someone else does tho

[golden plank]

which are trending job board in your country. I can find equivalent in india.

[fringe sphinx]

(I'll let someone who's actively search answer)

[lilac fable]

Not sure if this belongs in this channel or not, hopefully it does.

I'm not currently in a development role within my company but built an equipment management solution that my companies admins can all log into and our shop guys can scan in and out inventory items. We're set to roll this out next Monday, nothing has actually been set in stone yet but in regards to career discussion-

This equipment management software is a django application which is currently being hosted online, I own my own domain, yet my work has agreed to pay the monthly costs required to host everything related to this app. Is this something I should let them do, or should I opt for asking for a raise, selling the application, or are there any other things I should think about?

Things that may judge what the suggested answers are, I work for a subsidiary of a parent company, the parent company caught wind of what I was doing and not only loved it, they're trying to be super involved in it and watching how it goes. Ultimately, if it goes well it could be rolled out to over 30 companies which the thought of that scares me as this was built for mainly my works location to assist me in my job.

I've never worked on something of this scale before that people were interested in, a few freelance projects and such but nothing of this scale with multiple layers of users from admins, office, to technicians, inventory, equipment, and equipment reservations. This is a lot so any advice would be really great.

One thing I'm worried about is if my company takes over payments for the website, does that make them own it? Should I assume all payments and just request a raise?

[fringe sphinx]

In the US?

[fringe sphinx]

The next question would be to check your employment agreement. If it includes a work-for-hire clause, or if you used work equipment, etc, then they likely already own it (or it's messy enough where you'd need to lawyer up)

[lilac fable]

Yes

[lilac fable]

Made it on my personal laptop, nothing in my employment agreement regarding anything related to this.

[fringe sphinx]

But you've shared it with them, done it on their time, etc.

[lilac fable]

I've demo'd it and made small revisions at work, mainly worked on it on personal time.

[fringe sphinx]

What I'm saying is there's enough grey area with what you just said.

Regardless, if this is important to them, it's a good opportunity to come to an agreement with them

Its complicated because you said they're already planning on rolling this out, so you don't want to burn any bridges

[lilac fable]

That's why I was hoping to get some insight from people here, you see where I'm at now 🤣

[fringe sphinx]

If you want to retain any IP here, then talk to a lawyer asap

Everything in business needs a written agreement.

[lilac fable]

If it does end up being used within the Parent company it would be rolled out to around 30 different subsidiaries, as they seem really interested in it. Could be just the corporate in them wanting to watch over everything we do though.

[fringe sphinx]

It's very hard to navigate this while still employed by them.

Or, you could negotiate for a dev position to spearhead this project

So, either you want the role/job/salary, but don't worry about ownership... or you try to retain ownership and license/contract it to them (hard to do while an employee)

[lilac fable]

Me personally I'd almost prefer to be in a development position, I'm going to school for computer science but got my current job from my business degree doing marketing. I definitely feel the salary difference between my marketing position and a developer position would be drastically different.

Either that or retain my current position with a decent raise, and just add managing my project on company time as well as my other job duties.

[fringe sphinx]

Getting a dev job in your resume would be incredibly valuable.

Just retitling would be a huge plus.

[versed moss]

Hi everyone! I'm a 25-year-old from a Scandinavian country, and I'm looking for some advice on career opportunities for the future. Academics have never really been my thing—I find it challenging and exhausting. I have a bachelor's degree in economics with a focus on sales, but I'm not really excited about the job options available to me right now.

I'm considering learning Python or earning certifications that could open doors to a career in IT or coding. Has anyone here gone down that path? What could I expect if I started with Python and then moved on to languages like Java or C++? I don't have any prior experience, but I do spend a lot of time on my computer, so I figure, why not make it worthwhile? I'd love to hear your thoughts and experiences! 😄

[icy fern]

How fast do you expect to be employed and what sort of career path?

[buoyant seal]

i would wish to add that different languages open doors for different opportunities.
And as like as some devs wish to think that "devs are beyond languages", it is not so, and the first language learnt in depth can be especially important as it will shape for which job roles u will be suitable for many years. As well as affecting your thinking for many years until u will be able break out of it (or never well in your career)
and while transition to other languages is possible, the gap of transitioning between different platform targets of development (which have plenty of its specifics) + language are very high.

Saying this intro i will say

• Python is easy to get into for novices, but hard to master. Commonly usable for backend (+data engineering) development, for sysadmin and devops engineers for infra glue, and as tool for data scientists and machine learning people. Almost completely not usable for desktop or mobile dev. Python code has advantages for easier unit testing, has very mature ecosystem of different stuff making dev comfort, has room for easy runtime debugging.
• C++ i know is usable for desktop development, game development, embedded development.
• Java is usable for backend (+ data engineering), desktop and android development at least. its culture is very far different from python one, its code scales in size better for fully fledged applications, and used more often in fin tech. Java is often maintain in long term, and it is not uncommon seeing very old stuff in it.

[buoyant seal]

We can add here often repeated phrase, that CS degree is path of least resistance. I understand that u already have higher education though, so probably not intending to do in again.
Nevertheless u need to have some advantages if u wish to make this path.

• We can advice trying to use strongest your sides and seeking job opportunities somehow more aligned towards your previous education, so you would have some advantage
• We can advice building excellent portfolio

We can say that with many people wishing to work in IT too and without education, the competion can be ridiculously high among people in your shoes. So you need every possible advantage. May be landing less lucrative job position too?

We can advice evaluating if programming career is indeed your thing, if u have soft skills/apptitude for that?

[buoyant seal]

Path of least resistance with u having already bachelor's degree perhaps would be taking master's degree towards CS. That will mitigate lack of CS bachelor's degree and align you towards medium level of difficulty path to enter this career path.
You would be wishing to have probably put extra effort in self studies to catch up with people that already in it for 4 years

[versed moss]

I can put down 2 or max 3 years on this until I land a job later, but I totally have no clue what carrier options I have or what I can or want to do.

[versed moss]

Thank you so much for your detailed response! I really appreciate you taking the time to explain how the choice of programming language can impact my career in the long term. Given what you’ve said, it sounds like Java might be a better focus since it can be used for both app development and backend work. Would you say Java is also a good choice if I want to get into machine learning, or would Python still be better for that?

[versed moss]

I am truly honest, I am not entirely sure what I want yet, but I do know that I want to work remotely as much as possible and earn high scale good salary. I've noticed that many high-paying jobs require knowledge of Ruby. Could you tell me more about what Ruby is primarily used for? If I wanted to master Ruby in the future, which two programming languages should I focus on learning today? I'd really appreciate your insights on this!

[buoyant seal]

Java can be good average choice for software engineering path, but if u wish to pursue machine learning.. Python is better pick i believe.
At least as far as i saw it dominated in answers for machine learning stuff, and has rich libraries for usage in this direction

[versed moss]

Thank you for your advice! I understand that pursuing a master's degree in computer science could be a good way to enter the field, especially to make up for not having a CS bachelor's degree. I’ll definitely consider if this path is right for me and how I can best prepare myself through self-study, if I decide to take this route.

[buoyant seal]

but I do know that I want to work remotely as much as possible and earn high scale good salary
u can forget about it until u reached middle rank qualifications, which graduates from CS degree reach only within 3-5 years of career.
Interns/juniors are commonly do not have a choice for remote work

[buoyant seal]

I've noticed that many high-paying jobs require knowledge of Ruby
in the end u can be earning high with plenty of tech stacks, it is more of a question what is present in your local hiring web sites... and what u like more.

if u seek this job for high earning only, u may wish to reconsider your choices
IT can be a torture for a normal non tech person. It takes a specific set of interests to like it.
And liking this path is important, as it will allow you to progress smoothly in this career path. Or at least not smoothly, but survive through different multi days type of problems challenging your determination and sanity.

[buoyant seal]

sure. universities usually teach only fundamentals/core software engineering subjects but skip the part of teaching any job relevant language and tech stack
So it would be highly preferably your self studies will catch up to any language/ecosystem and prepare for some specific job role to go for after graduation

[versed moss]

Are you referring to a career in coding in general or specifically to the Ruby programming language? I’m not very familiar with what different career titles entail on a daily basis, or what they might feel like. Is there a website or forum where I can read more about various career paths in coding? As you mentioned, it's important to enjoy what I choose to work on and improve in the future. (:

[buoyant seal]

i specify coding in general.

[buoyant seal]

Is there a website or forum where I can read more about various career paths in coding? As you mentioned, it's important to enjoy what I choose to work on and improve in the future. (:
never encountered such web site. Closest i can give https://roadmap.sh/
Which mentions stuff u will be knowing for different job roles eventually.

[versed moss]

Thank you so much for replying and answering my questions so far, I will take a look at this. Hopefully I can decide what I want and start somewhere on this journey and hopefully fulfill it to the end, that would lead maybe to something more than just a work.

[cobalt moat]

how could one find the weird CS jobs that work out in the field like writing software for mining machinery onsite for smaller companies? I only ever see job postings for office CS jobs but I know there is other kind of software jobs out there?

[jaunty swallow]

should i do cs or ce in university?

[pine sleet]

depends on what you want to do

[jaunty swallow]

just code really

[rain rivet]

I don't know where to find these jobs. I did work in an office with a guy who did field work, running data collection and analysis at sites. Usually by drilling/blowing stuff up/and measuring the results to predict what's in the ground. He wrote some scripts to make the job easier but the job was heavily leaning towards IT support not programming. Tough work, lots of travel, random dangers. Although as the engineer you'd still be in an "office", in a trailer, in the middle of nowhere.

[cobalt moat]

"Tough work, lots of travel, random dangers. Although as the engineer you'd still be in an "office", in a trailer, in the middle of nowhere." exactly what i want

[rain rivet]

Lol. I did also know an oil guy who became a programmer later in life. Perhaps do what he did, just find anyone that's already at one of these companies and then ask them to point you to whoever they work with. Most likely whoever they remember is not covered in dirt but also stuck in the middle of nowhere.

[vapid jay]

Its mah birthday

[upper iron]

Oh

[cerulean dome]

Is there a channel here, on python discord, for posting Job Advertisemnets?

[near ocean]

No

[vapid jay]

he said no

[gritty rivet]

Then please delete your previous message which violates the server's rules. There are plenty of legitimate places to post job listings. Two are linked in the description of this channel.

[cerulean dome]

I'll take a look @gritty rivet, thanks.

[weak rock]

Could use some career advice here ….I don’t know what’s going on, but my mind has not been on work lately. I recently started with a new team, and I'm not really enjoying the job. Last year, I got my master’s in Data Science and transitioned into a data scientist role, but I’ve still been using a lot of SQL and no Python. Now, I’m feeling like a weak programmer.

I’m trying to refresh my fundamental knowledge and skills to prepare for a new role, but I just can’t retain information like I used to. The job market is also pretty discouraging. Does anyone have advice on how to navigate this situation? Starting to debate if tech is the place for me?

[tidal gazelle]

Why does computer science/software engineering get a bad rep now?

[cerulean dome]

Is here a good place to ask, what are good Python interviewing questions, to really prove they know their python stuff?

I'm not a recruiter btw, I'm a software engineer, and CTO ... but Python isn't my strong point, so looking for some suggestions here.

Thanks 🙏

[near ocean]

Use whatever questions you would use for your programming language of choice, unless its something trivial in python like reversing a string

I'd just pick problems from leetcode

[cerulean dome]

It's not leetcode style interview, it's going to be senior-level concepts and ensuring you have a deep understanding of how python actually works .. and how to achieve things like concurrency, threading, async .. and so on

I'm just not sure what the appropriate questions are to ask, relevant to Python, aka "the pythonic way"

If anyone has good suggestions, I'd appreciate it, thanks 🙏

[vapid jay]

its becoming like other jobs where you have huge competition but rn the question is, is it worth working for anymore because it does take a toll on your brain after a while

[tidal gazelle]

how come though

you mean all the problem solving or thinking?

[vapid jay]

on the pressure. i heard that ppl code or work for 10 or so years and then start their own company

i am seeing articles on how ppl are silently leaving tech job due to burnout

[twilit portal]

Isn't starting your own company even more work and pressure?

[tidal gazelle]

are you speaking as a software eng by chance?

[vapid jay]

no i am saying what i have been reading on articles lately

[tidal gazelle]

and also, what about the posts on social media about software engineers not getting a job. what do you think about that

[vapid jay]

yea this had been an ongoing thing since i think 2023

[tidal gazelle]

but is it true? Should i be concerned if im going to be starting a CS course next month about empoyment in general?
Meaning i'd be looking for employment about 2029/2030

[vapid jay]

huge layoff and also recession and also i read articles where one wrote that a guy with PhD and 8 years work experience not getting job. salaries have decreased than before. and there are many job listings where they don't hire and instead make candidates work for free for them in the name of "accessing you skill". ghost jobs. even i have seen some companies constantly posting for same jobs. saying they hired but then again post same job next month

idk to be honest. i am in the same boat. but then again there are ppl earning 300k by doing tech jobs too with 6-8 yeas work experience too yk. so whatever field you choose you gotta put in a lot of work and effort and it does show somewhere.

[cobalt moat]

frontend devs

[near ocean]

Where is this coming from?

Software is a great career, if it wasnt people wouldnt be swarming to it

[true harness]

honestly, anything you read on social media is probably just not accurate. talk to any actual software developer about what their job is like. it is stressful sometimes, and there are relatively hostile work conditions, but it's really not that bad on average

[near ocean]

Yea, talk to me, i'll share what the every day tasks look like for a software dev 🙂

[fringe sphinx]

Who gives it a bad rap? Never heard that before.

[fringe sphinx]

SWE is a very well paid field, with competitive salaries, and fairly low unemployment (data per field is hard to find, ofc). There was a ridiculous period post Covid where big tech was hiring unrealistically, but comparing salaries to pre Covid, I believe salaries are equivalent.

[fringe sphinx]

Making people work for free doesn't happen, that's some myth (at least in US). A PhD with 8 years experience not finding a work: there's more to that story (can't measure a person by their degree), but I agree that: job seeking does suck right now, and I don't worry about the average- be excellent.

[glass silo]

is this chan for interview exp discussion too?

[fringe sphinx]

Yes

[acoustic plaza]

Is there still high numbers of swe after covid to this day?

[fringe sphinx]

What's GD?

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, what would have happened to them?

With other candidates, or a panel of interviews?

[acoustic plaza]

I thought some would be let off bc too many numbers?

[twilit portal]

I'm confused, what's the red flag?

[acoustic plaza]

What kind of coding languages
Do u need to know for swe/cyber security/ ai?

[near ocean]

Im not sure the order matters that much

I'd be more worried about the group interview

[acoustic plaza]

Anyone?

[fringe sphinx]

If you don't get a good answer, ask in #cybersecurity

That's weird. Multiple candidates in same room/zoom for an interview? Bad form, imo.

Same thing, a group discussion is weird to me.

[true harness]

i know some companies do that, but for collaborative exercise type things, where you work together to solve a problem. but i always thought it was a bit sus

[fringe sphinx]

But, i don't do large internship rounds

The GD seems shitty. But I don't see issue with the order of interviews: that seems like time management

Yup, that's the behavioral interview: the 'do we like you' phase. A lot of bias creeps in there.

Sounds about right... if you have 20 ppl, you need to 'thin the herd'

No, the manager evaluates engineers and is the one who can gauge you. HR aren't engineers.

[glass silo]

Sounds right

So my whole college got rejected 😭 as they were focusing on some other college which they thought was better

[near ocean]

Sometimes it do be like that

[fringe sphinx]

To reject 20 completely is pretty surprising

And I strongly doubt it's Uni based, tho. The bias is bringing them in. -but- knowing the company, they may be looking for a particular background, but still: to reject 20 that passed a resume screen is quite surprising.

[vapid jay]

FATAL: Error, cannot add data file with '.' path, as 'contains illegal suffix '.''
Error with compiling file: [WinError 2] The system cannot find the file specified: 'GPUpdate.exe' ->

[sharp shard]

Not my area of specialization, but I frequently see job postings for "field technician" jobs that resemble. Try looking for PLC programming, Rockwell PLCs, Ignition, SCADA programming, etc.

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, for not 1 to make it to another round is surprising. Did they 'reject'? How do you knows

[vapid jay]

yo can someone help me real quick

[fringe sphinx]

Oh, then not rejected. They just haven't followed up.

They are a selective company, I do know that

[glass silo]

Hopefully there's no MW engineer here to blacklist me🥲

[fringe sphinx]

Fair, I would expect the only ppl with a shot are those who got mgr, hr and tech

But maybe everyone only got 2? Who knows.

At least, good practice

[true harness]

what is MW

[glass silo]

Think about it- we are not that degen to be rejected in a HR round

[glass silo]

Mathworks

[fringe sphinx]

Eh, still seems like a screening exercise. I imagine some ppl will get follow ups

[glass silo]

Maybe

[leaden jasper]

Clearly a Modern Warfare Engineer or a Molecular Weight Engineer

[tidal gazelle]

Social media actually

Like there are a quite a lot of memes about how software engineers won’t find a job or lose theirs or whatever

But I saw someone’s message above which pretty much cleared this up thanks

[novel inlet]

hey

can someone give me a few project ideas for beginners?

[acoustic plaza]

Do swe/cybersecurity/ai jobs allow u to work remotely?

[tidal gazelle]

!projects

[inner wren]

Kindling Projects

The Kindling projects page on Ned Batchelder's website contains a list of projects and ideas programmers can tackle to build their skills and knowledge.

[tidal gazelle]

Check out the above link

[novel inlet]

thanks alot

[true harness]

many do

[acoustic plaza]

Nice

[near ocean]

No

[scenic robin]

guys

[crisp stream]

!rule ad
We're not an advertisement board. Read the #rules

[inner wren]

Rules

6. Do not post unapproved advertising.

[muted night]

should I solve (leetcode/do data structures & algorithms) or do coursera courses like data analytics specialization to get a job

I'm halfway on my intro to python course right now

[gritty rivet]

It seems like you might be hoping one or the other will get you hired in and of itself. It won't. You need an overall strategy, which may very well include both those things. We don't have any context to know what you need to learn to reach your goals.

If you're serious about a career in SWE and/or Data Analytics, getting a relevant degree is the single most important step you can take.

[muted night]

I graduated recently

with a degree in CS

[vapid jay]

@vapid jay

[lost skiff]

Hi I wanna become a software developer can anyone help me with the the qualification

[muted night]

get a bachelors degree from a university

[smoky quest]

Then the recommendation would be:

• Prepare a resume
• Prepare for interviews (leetcode, behavioral, technical, etc.)
• Apply to jobs

[gritty rivet]

Nice. In that case, cramming leetcode probably will help you a bit with technical interviews for standard SWE jobs. I would only recommend the data analytics course if you really strongly feel that's the direction you want to focus on.

Stay in close touch with your classmates so you can learn from each other as you go. How are people applying, how's it going for them, etc.

[vapid jay]

data analytics might be more cooked than SWE at this point

[fringe sphinx]

Because data analysis is suddenly not important?

[vapid jay]

its important but my personal feeling is that the market is currently worse. I feel like I would have made more progress if I went into CS -> SWE than I've currently made going from stats -> da.

[fringe sphinx]

I think data analytics is perhaps tougher to enter because it has a less clear set of expectations and means different things to different companies. SWE has a slightly clearer roadmap to prepare/enter, whereas DA can range anywhere from spreadsheet work to business analytics to data science

So, probably a lot more applications to send out, but my belief is the jobs are out there. But, just a belief

[vapid jay]

The market is awful for everyone I guess

[muted night]

I'm freeloading at my parents, it's been awful

[vapid jay]

I'm starting a masters to hopefully not be unemployed forever 🗿

[plush summit]

Why do ppl always complain about the market such a classic excuse

[near ocean]

Its not exactly the best time to be on the hunt for a tech job

People werent complaining before covid

[smoky quest]

For many people considering many tens of thousands of people got laid off over the past few months

[vapid jay]

lay offs, financial downtown, interest rates, r&d tax code....

[vapid jay]

Because a LOT of people just graduated, and are pumping out 300 + resumes per week and the only people reaching out to them are scammers and bootcamps.

[vapid jay]

tbh, this is worse than the dotcom crash, but its only temporary. Tech is such a powerful and lucrative force. Thing is though : It only takes 3 days to starve and this whole state of affairs could take months or years before things get equalized,

[vapid jay]

I kind of understand where you are coming from. . .It's like : If you even LOOK at the market, you will just not bother. That said. . . .You don't play the Lute for a living and say "skill issue" when you cannot get work.

[smoky quest]

this remains to be seen as worse than the dotcom crash

[vapid jay]

How so?

[smoky quest]

it's not a generally accepted statement as far as I know

[vapid jay]

Oh no, BillyBobby is about to "git" me again.

[fringe sphinx]

I believe the worst was two years ago, right now is not close to the mass layoffs of then

Anecdotally, people are finding work. Might take a lot of applications, but the jobs are out there. Anecdotal, but labor stats seem to support that

[fast fossil]

so it's not anecdotal then

[near ocean]

I dont think now is worse than a time so bad people jumped out of buildings

[vapid jay]

Ok guys but what do I do if I fail all off my GCSEs as I'm already predicted to get 2s and 1s on every single subject. What do I do if I want to get a job in cyber security it's my passion

[placid hill]

I mean, retry again?

[vital wyvern]

Try harder?

[vapid jay]

Don't you think I have tried I been learning this stuff for nearly 3+ years now in school aswell I even got 1 to 1 support by my teacher and still failed

You can't retake most off your GCSEs part from English and maths

[vapid jay]

You can't part from English and maths

[placid hill]

so... it's just over? how can it be that bad

[vapid jay]

Every single college has rejected me you need 3 grade 3s MINIMUM at like all off the colleges in my area and I don't even got that

[vital wyvern]

Cybersecurity is fairly difficult to get into-- a college degree is immensely helpful. In the event that a degree is out of the question, you might try garnering experience through IT and levying that plus certifications to help build up your qualifications.

[placid hill]

from what I understand from friends, you can retake all GCSEs but you have to wait an year or so for the next round, except Math and English. Those can be retaken anytime I think

[vapid jay]

No for English and maths you have to see every year but no you can't retake every subject part from English and maths

[placid hill]

that's rough

[near ocean]

Someone's lying to you, you can retake whatever gcse you like as many times as you like at their annual exam

The exception is math and english which you can retake whenever you want

[vapid jay]

Wait what? Since when

[placid hill]

I checked and the government website says you can retake all GCSEs

So I think you should look into it.

[vapid jay]

e

[strange seal]

guys is it a good idea to lie on your resume? my fiend just landed a great job by doing it idk now i wanna do it too

but imo getting guilty to apply with fake resume

[true harness]

no

[peak halo]

if you lie on your resume, what is the plan when they ask probing questions about the stuff you lied about during the interviews?

[strange seal]

so thing my friend did is he put his college projects under work experience from companies

[strange seal]

my "skill based" project experience resume isnt getting any jobs so idk if i should do the same

[fringe sphinx]

So he lied and said he had jobs he didn't have? Yah, def don't do that. M

Employers -do- (often) verify prior employment

[strange seal]

thats what i said

[strange seal]

but he still got a job at a top company

[fringe sphinx]

'Top company' makes this sound much less believable

[strange seal]

and my resume is just being not seeen

[strange seal]

not a faang but a good company used ny faang

[fringe sphinx]

Perhaps your resume is just not very good.

You can post it (anonymized) here for critique.

[strange seal]

;-; prolly but tbh youre right i dont wanna start a career on lies

[thorny wing]

Hi guys im currently new to learning python, i started yesterday and im at conditionals - else-if, im looking for opinions if im going in the right path or not

[fringe sphinx]

Ask over in #python-discussion

[thorny wing]

Thanks and sorry

[vapid jay]

I'm a c++ developer and why am i in a python server💀

The only thing I know about python is hello world ("print")

[wary summit]

Hey guys i’m about to be a freshman in college and majoring in CS. I know this is a python server so i’m expecting a bias answer, but should i learn java first or python? I plan on learning both in the future but for now I want to stick to just one.

[smoky quest]

The order doesn't really matter

[pine sleet]

it won't matter too much what you learn first

[waxen shuttle]

Hey guys I am currently learning django advance but I'm kind of confused what do you guys think is there any future scope of django ?
I don't find roles that easily for django compare to MERN stack ?

would love to know your thoughts on this
Thanks in advance

[glass silo]

why would you only stick to a single framework- i would make use of my time and learn other frameworks

[faint depot]

Once you learn one programming language to a decent degree, its easier to learn other languages. Do what feels best for you

[late kraken]

Transitioning from Back-end Development to Mobile Development (iOS).

I'm a Python back-end developer (Mainly Django) with two years of experience. I have done React JS projects also. Currently my company don't have new projects in python but they having plenty of iOS projects. So I looked into iOS development and it seems pretty cool. So I have requested my manager to allow me to learn one more stack that is iOS and that wish was granted but I got turned down by few colleagues that I'm digging my own grave and I feel so bad now. Was that a bad idea. Please let me know the challenges and How it's going to affect my career.

[smoky quest]

not enough data to compute

[scenic robin]

whats a free python discord bot host

[fringe sphinx]

You should find out what your schools intro programming class is taught in, and pick that (since we're talking about 1 month till school starts)

[cobalt moat]

why do companies expect the first part of an interview process to be a 2 hour hackerrank style coding question? If people are expected to apply to hundreds of places due to hiring managers not actually wanting to hire people who is it feasable to do a 2 hour coding challenge for every single one of them?

[fringe sphinx]

Because many people claim to be able to code, and can't. And, with many applicants for a role, it's even worse.

I think it's somewhat pointless right now to do pure OAs with the amount of cheating that it encourages tho.

[cobalt moat]

so what do i do? i dont have time to do a test for every single app. I barely have time to retype my resume into their boxes because they are incapable of writing a functional parser

[regal axle]

A) yes, applications are time consuming and slow. And the market is not one where you can just apply to 1 place and get a job. You need to be prepared to put in the work for your job applications
B) not all companies pre screen you with a test. Some wait until much later to test you. They do a screening interview over just a technical test. This is based on their procedure. Some don’t even do leetcode style. Some are take homes, some are leetcode, some are pair programming. But regardless, you will have to take at least one technical for every potential job. It just depends at what stage they give it and how far you make it.

[fringe sphinx]

A test for 'Every single app'?

[crisp stream]

!cban 1214195794429743206 You seem to be here only to advertise your website. We're not an advertisement board.

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied ban to @kind pumice permanently.

[raw vale]

Is python the hardest thing to learn in a full stack software engineering toolset?

I mean completely not just the basics

[fringe sphinx]

This isn't really answerable. What's "hard", how do you define it, is something hard or is it just a matter of learning it?

And "completely" also doesn't have an answer, nobody really learns something "completely".

But, I'll answer the question I wish you asked:

There are many "hard" things to learn. Some things are hard because you've never done it before: learning your first programming language is hard, because you need to think in different terms. But, getting from "beginner" to "proficient" is more a matter of just putting in the time.

For full stack, I think it's much harder to become proficient in JS/CSS (like: really good, not just beginner), because of all the idiosyncrasies of the languages.

[gritty rivet]

I'd lean towards saying Python is one of the easiest things a full stack engineer might need to master. (Which is not to imply that all full stack engineers are proficient in Python.)

[kindred oyster]

some people hate HTML , CSS , JS and find it really hard
some people would gladly write the frontend code but will try their best to not touch the backend code

[buoyant seal]

@kindred oyster raised a good point.

Anyway. So... if we take level "completely". I can say that Python is kind of the easiest (but quite deep) part here because it allows achieving relatively sanely a good level of code quality. Easy to make backend completely autotestable with rapid local feedback.
https://darklab8.github.io/blog/favourite.html#TestDrivenDevelopmentByExample
https://darklab8.github.io/blog/favourite.html#UnitTestingPrinciplesPracticesandPatterns
Those books are friends for that.

I learned besides that Html and Css. okay, basic usage is very simple to do too (but i suspect that at scale it will be way more problematic)

I can say that Javascript i see as impossible to write in a good way and hardest for me here. I workaround with "backend" means of htmx though.
With big time investment of committing to Node.js ecosystem and learning typescript and the modern.js framework and other stuff it is supposed to be possible learning frontend at the level like you are on mypy steroids. But i just... hate js for its low code quality and don't wish to learn 😅 Therefore
I can do fullstack apps as long as they involve only Backend language, Html, Css and only lightweight vanilla js + htmx and etc stuff
But i will not wish ever touching modern js frontend frameworks again.
They are too hard to make code being in a good way. + Hardly auto testable also.
If i commited to js/ts ecosystem for multiple years i would have probably wielded them in a good way... but at this point of time i realized i know too many tech already and learning Node.js stuff will not fit onto my plate to get good in depth. I am out of capacity (and not willing) to learn modern js frontend 😉 i worked with modern frontend js framework for half of a year, so i make my decision after trying this stuff.

[buoyant seal]

I know a frontend person that said words completely opposite to mine.
He prefered to see backend app being rest api just because he sees harder to maintain and change backend
and would have prefered complexity araised from having standalone separate modern js frontend, so he could maintain and change it without touching backend

[buoyant seal]

https://youtu.be/yYaLQ3LazYM that being said, if u invested time and became good... u will be able with tools u got comfortable doing almost everything

[fair pine]

someone wanna learn me how to progam?

[near ocean]

No and dont cross post

[fair pine]

💯

[faint depot]

Applied to an it apprenticeship via a company called baltic apprenticeships. Got back to me today to enroll me into a free It bootcamp (government funded) as well as a meeting with the recruitment manager. Hopefully I get the apprenticeship

Btw the company hosting the apprenticeship is called LittleFish. Anyone in the UK confirm if its a decent company or not?

[near ocean]

Look them up, theyre apparently a recruitment company so theyre about as decent as any other recruitment company

[dapper bane]

how do I surpass the cycle of a job start a business or something in IT is that pussible ?

[white relic]

cycle?

[peak halo]

Can you rephrase that, and add commas as needed? I don't understand what you're saying.

[dapper bane]

I am stuck in a cycle of job

[peak halo]

what is the job, and what about it is cyclic?

[dapper bane]

its full stack mobile developer and I have to do it everyday not that i dislike it

I am thinking of starting a business selling momos

[fringe sphinx]

Do or not do, there is no try.

[near ocean]

Starting a business is more work than a 9-5

[dapper bane]

selling momos is easy work

[near ocean]

Great, go ahead then, why the question?

[fringe sphinx]

You haven't worked in food service then.

[peak halo]

what is a momo?

[fringe sphinx]

Like a dumpling

[dapper bane]

i dont know if it is the right decision

[peak halo]

I doubt anyone who uses this channel left a software development career to go into food service.

[dapper bane]

in india momo seller salary > developer salary my friend makes more money than me

[peak halo]

is your sample size only your one friend, or thousands of momo sellers?

[dapper bane]

idk how is he doing it bro got the latest iphone and everything

he even got a servant to do his job

[twilit portal]

Being a developer allows you to become better paid overtime as your skills increase
If selling momos is easy, as you say, then your pay will probably not increase overtime and you'll be easily replaced by other people, which is not a good position to be in IMO

[near ocean]

Have you considered that maybe your friend is overextending himself to appear rich when he's not?

[dapper bane]

I have been looking all day into investing startegies and I cant seem to find something that i like either

indian devs are paid too low

and my company wants me to shift to some other state which i dont like one bit

[white relic]

don't forget to include in your statistics all the people who tried to be momo sellers and failed

[fringe sphinx]

Or perhaps friend is a momo genius? The Gordon Ramsay of momos.

https://www.upgrad.com/blog/top-10-highest-paying-jobs-in-india/

[dapper bane]

guys i ll hve to soon dicuss my salary negotiation with my mananger what should i say there ?

maybe if i play my cards well i dont have to be a momo seller

[sour iron]

if you play them at the right place then you can also be like your friend

[dapper bane]

but wat should I say

[sour iron]

say to who?

[dapper bane]

the manager

[sour iron]

whatever you told us here...

[dapper bane]

that i want to be a momo seller ?

shit will that work ? r u sure ?

[fringe sphinx]

Bring some momo's just in case you need to convince him that you're a good chef.

[dapper bane]

r u guys joking with me or will this really work ?

[sour iron]

This is a very serious channel

[dapper bane]

shouldnt i be telling about the things i did or something ? I ll bring the momos just in case

[smoky quest]

Why would your manager pay you more?

[dapper bane]

because I discovered that session vul, ssh vuln, anti root vuln, made a graphing library from scratch, integrated their payment APIs and other stuff

which no one noticed till i came

[smoky quest]

Why is it worth more now?
Aren't you doing why they are paying you for?

[dapper bane]

the vulns were out of my role becuase I was hired as a dev

i also discovered potential weakness in the services they were running on their server

[smoky quest]

are you expected to continue doing this?

[dapper bane]

hell yeah if i get paid right

[dapper bane]

I dont think I am in a position to negotiate pay

[smoky quest]

I mean, it comes down to what they want for the role and you compare to the role. So that typically goes through additional responsibilities or showing that you have more experience (ex: senior vs midlevel).
There is also a component about how your company pays relative to the market, but that's also more delicate

[dapper bane]

I think they can just hire someone else

React Native + Django dev is quite common

[white relic]

they could always hire someone else, but apparently you noticed things that "someone else" didn't notice, right?
so, if you're doing a job "someone else" could do but you're doing it better than it was before you came along, there's your reason for why they should pay you more

or, maybe they don't actually care about those vulnerabilities, maybe paying you as a security analyst is not in the budget, maybe they want you to stay in your lane.
All you can do is make the case

[dapper bane]

they do not like me working on the vuln in the sense I am spending my time on could be vulns where I could make them an API but when I showed them attacks which I performed on their services they realized otherwise

[fringe sphinx]

Careful with any 'attacks': even well meaning devs can get in trouble here

[dapper bane]

its all controlled attacks

[balmy mural]

Which is fair. If the company needs certain APIs to be done by certain times and you're spending your time elsewhere, that could be an issue. Doing things outside of your normal job description should be above and boyond your normal work. Not instead of

[hollow wyvern]

Anyone doing python for finance?

[near ocean]

Many probably, why?

[latent niche]

why error line 75

[calm willow]

wrong channel bro!! ask in #python-discussion or #1035199133436354600

[latent niche]

soory

[hollow gulch]

Hi, I saw that you have been working with blockchain and web3, do you think you could help me with extracting func data from Uniswap V2 contract?

[smoky quest]

Wrong channel to ask this question. See #❓｜how-to-get-help

[hollow gulch]

thanks

[thorny wing]

Ig bc there’s nothing connected to the else on line 76, maybe try moving the line 77 to line 76?

[peak halo]

there's very little consistency in what job titles actually mean in that space. If you're already employed as a "data analyst", you probably already have similar job responsibilities and salary as a lot of people who have "data scientist" as their title.

Generally speaking, people who understand ML theory and who apply ML as part of their job make more than other "data" people.

maybe for you.

[brave hill]

Do you have a degree? What field?

how did you get the data analyst job?

[lost fern]

Are you more interested in the data itself, what it means, etc.? Go towards data science. If you are more interested in the process of manipulating the data, go for engineering.

[peak halo]

"data scientist" jobs are more likely to have a degree as a hard requirement, just so you know.

[lost fern]

If not a PhD

[full hinge]

not the exact iteration but..... your welcome

https://www.uoitc.edu.iq/images/documents/informatics-institute/Competitive_exam/Systemanalysisanddesign.pdf

[outer rivet]

Does anyone here work at Capital One? If so, do you have any tips for the technical case interview?

[pastel thunder]

Is retention fee is subject to stay of 12 months
Can you be in notice period for the last 2 of total 12 months stay?

[peak halo]

there's no universal answer for that. you'll have to look at the terms of the "retention fee" that has been presented to you.

[orchid night]

@smoky quest here is my one page resume I took a lot out but put a lot of meanful content in it

this is for the SWE positions going to be reworking my DE resume for one page

[fringe sphinx]

Being honest (but brutal): The skill section here is so unrealistic, it'd be a quick pass.

People have a tendency to exaggerate their skills... let your projects speak loudest.

The "Misc" section needs some cleanup, that paragraph is too long and needs some work to tighten it up.

In coop: You use mechanization twice in same bullet. I'm not even sure what it means.

There's other things on bullets that feel a bit inconsistent, like: "User Identification was stored using Postgres SQL". This just seems out of place: talk about what you did, not what the app was/did (PostgreSQL, too)

[smoky quest]

Same feedback as ^

Also putting the skills in bold is distracting

[dapper bane]

u got 3 years of xp and u dont have a jib ?

[strange nova]

Doesn't seem like a constructive thing to say

[dapper bane]

sorry

[clear mist]

who's can i dm for a career decision

[buoyant seal]

asking in dm is not the right way in such communities.
Ask in public. you will get multiple opinions this way anyway, and any bs will be potentially corrected by other people

[buoyant seal]

mmleah, what they said, i will offer besides explanation also a path to fixing it.

Reading how u described your projects, i see trivial technologies used in multiple instances being the only thing that describes the project.
for me it is... intern/student level of project description a bit here.

• like "User Identification was stored using Postgres SQL". very trivial information.
• Used an ubuntu server hosted on digital Ocean. Very trivial too.
• Login administration was handled by Django User Authentification. Super trivial too.
• "A local Postgres database was created on a local machine to save on budget cost" - Super trivial too.
• Web pages style using Boorstrap and SCSS. - very trivial too.

Too much details essentially for trivial stuff. It has some level of importance though, but i would shorten tech stack to just buzzword recounting in a single line or smth, instead of going into such details

[buoyant seal]

The amount of languages and buzzwords hints me to very low level of learning any of that.
It would be awesome to see development done according to quality standards
And i would have checked your Git provider account. (at least if u reached technical interview stage)

• This Code Complete book recounts major amount of existing stuff.
• Besides that do learn unit testing throughly. With theory behind
  It is interesting to see dev thinking of quality of his programs. How he going to maintain it in long term.
  Your current resume is more resume of a Freelancer, that makes one-off projects

[faint depot]

I assume its better to have few very well made projects rather than many low quality projects to put on your portfolio

[long osprey]

some of the developers in my team, think just like a engineer, they dont care the production goes bad (they dont even consider edge cases) and they dont even care if company losses money
they just care that they should get raises,pay
they dc about anything else
never thinks for the organization

How do i change that

all they care is about themself all i care is about the team and i mention it directly that u guys matter
are they using my morals and values against me?

as i myself am an engineer
i understand everything.

[near ocean]

Are you their manager?

[long osprey]

but everytime late things, exception cases not covered nothing new from that guy side.

[long osprey]

we call it teammate
i mean i own decent stakes here in this organization.

[near ocean]

But do they report to you or do they report to another person

[long osprey]

me.

[brisk anvil]

wdym they dont care

[long osprey]

the launch is coming

[near ocean]

So you manage them
Do they get paid fairly? Do they receive overtime or is it in their contracts to be on call for prod issues?

[long osprey]

1 guy is responsible for Data oAuth stuff
so he's working on that side from 1.5 months

and now is the main time for it to work

like it should work
but now i see

SO many issues at his part, he was waiting for me to mico-manage he couldnt stop issues himself
Spoon-Feeding

great engineer but still this thing, for sure lack of interest
have talked to him explained him gently strictly all
given raised etc etc

[delicate swift]

Sounds like they're bad employees

[long osprey]

even asked him to go to another company of someone ik

[brisk anvil]

maybe because they're new?

[near ocean]

Are they getting paid fairly? That should be the first question

[long osprey]

but good as a person and a good engineer

[near ocean]

Why would people show more interest than the employer pays for

[delicate swift]

I don't think engineers who don't put effort into projects they're assigned to are good ones

[long osprey]

but i pay fair enough and they are okay with it

[brisk anvil]

i mean

1. what the old man said
2. they might be new? from the age they're fresh out of college

[delicate swift]

They may have technical skills, but there's more to that to make them a good employee

[near ocean]

Are you sure? If all theyre interested in are raises that indicates they may not be happy with their pay

[long osprey]

1. Decent pay
   2.Yes new, but it was not like that before

[brisk anvil]

how much are they paid and where are they at (as in, what city)

[long osprey]

here in India

[brisk anvil]

and also, what does "not like that" mean? they could do everyhting by themselves?

[long osprey]

the main problem is this
"He does the work but when it's supposed be used like live on the internet/tested"
It breaks or some edge case isnt covered by him

[near ocean]

Working conditions in india arent exactly exemplary
We've heard plenty complaints from indian devs about overworking, low pay, toxic cultures, etc

Dont pithink me lol, you know its true

[brisk anvil]

have you considered

that there might be edge ccases the entire time but haven't showed up because it wasnt used muchc

[long osprey]

possible very possible

[proud glacier]

Isn't that the definition of an edge case

[brisk anvil]

lol

[long osprey]

he is "Product manager-dominated" not "Product manager guided"

[long osprey]

exactly, they're responsible for it right

[brisk anvil]

i feel like the answer to this is UNIT TESTS

[harsh river]

You can’t expect someone to account for all possible edge cases, but you can expect them to be reasonable about it

[long osprey]

yes i mean i dont blame him for that never
but i give him edge-cases to try

he maybe doesnt even consider trying unless i find it myself by trying myself

[brisk anvil]

unit tests people

[long osprey]

hm

[delicate swift]

[true harness]

have you talked about what you think they should be doing? if yes, and they aren't doing it, then you need to figure out why

[buoyant seal]

You assume right. U will be evaluated by your pretty much the best one present project

[buoyant seal]

Hard to judge all that on your words only.
We can't see size of your infra applications, amount of technical debts, their pay rate, and amount they are loaded with other tasks

We barely see a surface here that is potentially can be misjudged. Bad workers, bad managers are all common. Who is performing less or better is not obvious here

[long osprey]

Hmm understandable

What do u think could act as a catalyst to give him the self realisation without being rude without being hard on him

[near ocean]

Have you tried talking to them to find out why they're not doing the duties you say they should?

[buoyant seal]

From a position of a developer:
We have performance review every 6-12 months, where we present stuff we did best, learned things, feedback from other colleagues is gathered and managers
Based on that we can ask for promotions and pay raises.

Besides that we have tech lead responsible for providing trainings (on volunteering basis only) for people which wish and have left energy. Tech lead takes care of compiling essential materials to do the training.

[buoyant seal]

Essentially if they are responsible good engineers should be evaluated by engineers of highest qualifications.
And recommendations what to learn further should be given by them too. (Or by tech lead if he exists)
Non technical Managers understand too little to evaluate anything correctly at tech side

Even managers with former tech side perform quite doubtfully at this (at least they understand usually how little they know at tech side and manage to delegate correctly decision making in fields they understand little)

There exist managers of the senior dev level like, they can perform stuff related to this correctly, but they are super rare (like I know only three people like that. Web dev department leader, tech lead, and CEO of one company)

[buoyant seal]

We have weekly reports gathered by managers on us, but essentially they are made on faith of received feedbacks from dev leads, CEOs and etc.
Proper dev evaluation and growth is possible usually only with help of higher devs

With help of people which devs can appreciate and acknowledge as being more knowledgeable (non technical Managers aren't usually)

[buoyant seal]

If I remember correctly your devs qualifications are fairly poor, so u are potentially overestimating your expertise here

[buoyant seal]

There are some materials helpful to learn for everyone to change their mind and rethink approaches, it is possible to change processes in the way they will care.
It requires changing development workflow and having configured application monitoring systems for devs to see feedback easily for their deployment

In our company DevOps engineering department is responsible for this, but main decisions in this situation start for us with CEO who is conviniently DevOps engineer too... So for us things are fairly easy I believe to create the necessary environment
Because management understands it too, and we have support of it to do that. (Including for extra infra costs and allocated time to do that)

[long osprey]

Hm
I get it

[long osprey]

Now that's a great team

I always get to u learn from u darkwind
Thanks
Wish I had someone like you onboard

[buoyant seal]

There is this funny book to read, it can give you a right mindset.

Essentially though I think the right way to approach it is changing development workflow and giving devs ability to deploy quickly and often, with ability to rollback in case of screw up and having tracing, error catching, alerting systems notifying them right to their slack if smth went wrong

[long osprey]

Yes
Right to take decisions give employees the freedom to go out of the box

[buoyant seal]

Also if they qualifications lack, stuff like conferences, article sharing and other ways for devs to exchange information can be helpful for them to see where to grow and what to learn.

[long osprey]

Sure
I will definitely try my best

[buoyant seal]

Those conferences would have to be held by devs with highest qualifications. By people they respect and acknowledge as superior in skills 😉 not by managers just to be sure.

[long osprey]

Hm
What about the thing you were building

[buoyant seal]

I can hardly see as stuff promoted by managers to be accepted. Probably will look only as toxic stuff thrown on them from above.
Depends on a case

[long osprey]

As far as ik u were making something like some blog or something

[long osprey]

I mean I'm younger and I'm like their friend and I myself code
But yes there must be something wrong here from my side I'm pretty sure

I myself am not so qualified maybe that's the reason but I never felt it

[buoyant seal]

That is another thing I guess. Raising awareness about domain knowledge of a product is essential thing for high level devs to flare well. And leading development to correct path.
At least dev team leads should be possessing deep knowledge on this subject.
Also than smaller product then highly likely more devs should be deeply aware about it

Big products/ companies can afford having worker bees being less aware about domain of product.
Smaller products can not

Depends on job role/size of product/amount of devs
Some useful materials exist to learn on this subject from dev side too
Like system analysis and design by Alan Dennis

[long osprey]

I told u about it right
I wish I could work with you guys
U boxed and few more ppl

[strong pumice]

Hi I have a question ?

[buoyant seal]

One more thing. You as manager obviously wish shortest path to quality product, considered edge cases and etc.
I voiced important thing to achieve that, having more rapid feedback from deployments to dev.

Besides the core principle is performing mandatory Pull Request reviews of submitted code, and having enforced policy at the level of a git provider to have no ability to merge it unless review was made.

This will work best if u will have at least one person with high dev qualifications to enforce minimal good quality to code.
And also there will be needed achieved agreement that "insert requirement" thing will be enforced as necessary (like unit testing and etc)
If u will have configured CI to run unit tests automaticly it will help to have merged almost always working app code (which will still require validation in staging environment to perform correctly)

Make sure managers don't skip reviewing too 😉

Good cross reviewing is potentially shortest route to knowledge sharing and raising quality of a product. U need to have at least one person of highest qualification and having necessary soft skills to do in a good way for that to work. (Path to toxicity is really easy to get here, things need to be careful with very neutral constructive language)

[buoyant seal]

And that is another obvious thing to consider. Quality product not breaking prod with high chance is possible to deploy only if it was reviewed in staging environment

[gritty rivet]

If it's related to careers, you're in the right place to ask it. If not try #python-discussion or read #❓｜how-to-get-help

[shrewd citrus]

What course you all will suggest for python for a beginner

[peak halo]

https://www.pythondiscord.com/resources/?topics=general&type=course&difficulty=beginner

[shrewd citrus]

Cool thanks

[static flax]

I’m about to go under for surgery what should I say

[shrewd citrus]

Happy birthday

[peak halo]

I hope the procedure goes well, but this is the career discussion channel.

[static flax]

Nerd

[lavish lagoon]

Where i can apply for python developer?

[peak halo]

https://www.python.org/jobs/

[lavish lagoon]

Wow

[orchid night]

Very brutal but very straight to the point but I really appreciate the feedback 💯 🙌

[orchid night]

would you suggest writing a summary for each project describing the objecting and how it was done?

[near ocean]

Laptop recommendations is not a career topic, try #ot1-perplexing-regexing

[smoky quest]

looking at my own resume, I do that for my experience: I start with a summary/description and then follow up with bullets for key points I want to convey

[buoyant seal]

I could recommend starting from writing good Readme.md for projects, like it is intended for usage by other users.
Summarization what is it, how to use it detailed infusion, how to start development of it.
Presentation for a front page of a project at GitHub.
Pictures and videos are welcome

Usually in this process I form the best wording describing the project, which is easier to transfer to resume

Also it will make sure project is presentable if it will get to be opened.

[vapid jay]

You know, back when I tried to read that book in college, I legitimately couldn't understand it.

[buoyant prism]

hi

[buoyant seal]

i guess to soon you read it.
this book is more for people who already worked profesionally and encountered problems, and started to wish making somehow work better

usually dev graduates should concentrate on developing their hard skills first

[buoyant seal]

higher scope of vision comes later.
I can probably recommend few years of professional experience
And first having learnt essentials like unit testing thoroughly and reading code complete
then diving into system analysis and design eventually to learn classical stuff of software development workflow
and then eventually time to go for the Phoenix book

[vapid jay]

Yeah, I actually ordered a copy of code complete. Might nab a copy of unit testing afterward too.

I'm taking a month off of MMA and wrestling so my knee can heal and so I can focus on code to get a better job. This flagging job is pure pain.

[hard coral]

any off-topic chats or general in here?

[fringe sphinx]

!topic

[inner wren]

Off-topic channels

There are three off-topic channels:

• #ot0-psvm’s-eternal-disapproval
• #ot1-perplexing-regexing
• #ot2-never-nester’s-nightmare

The channel names change every night at midnight UTC and are often fun meta references to jokes or conversations that happened on the server.

See our off-topic etiquette page for more guidance on how the channels should be used.

[hard coral]

ty

[mortal ember]

anyone is good at decorating rooms ?

[near ocean]

Thats not relevant to careers, try #ot1-perplexing-regexing

[neat talon]

I'm still underage and in a some years I'm writing my final which will determine whether if i can get into cs or no. turns out i need a higher score than i expected. by higher i mean it's hardly achievable for me. should i continue learning things now and hope i pass or should i set myself to other things in case i don't pass?

[fringe sphinx]

I think that learning is always a good thing. Programming and technology are important in many jobs and specialties, not just CS, and being tech literate is a good thing.

[neat talon]

but other available majors have absolutely nothing to do with cs

[fringe sphinx]

Like what?

[neat talon]

math, physics major or whatever it's called

[fringe sphinx]

Those all involve programming.

[neat talon]

maths maybe but physics?

[fringe sphinx]

Absolutely. https://www.reddit.com/r/AskPhysics/comments/xar0gy/physics_simulations_in_python/

[neat talon]

maybe I'll just become a plumber. mfs here have a higher minimum wage than a cs

[true harness]

do they?

[fringe sphinx]

So you don't want to learn programming?

[neat talon]

i do but without a degree you can't prove shit

[fringe sphinx]

So get a math or physics degree, and also learn programming?

[neat talon]

wrong choice of words. cs has nothing available in my country (as in jobs) and for what there is it's very low salary

nvm I'm probably passing cs

[fringe sphinx]

What I am saying is: Learn programming. It's useful in many fields, not just CS.

[abstract compass]

i found a ML powered code search engine that saved my bum at my internship. it let me look up stuff in github repos and I got onboarded quicker than anyone expected.. just wanted to share this here so folks can benefit from it. it's called Devv.ai

[fringe sphinx]

No ads, please. #rules

[abstract compass]

omg sorry its not ad tho i'm just sharing :0

[peak halo]

@civic thistle seeking employment on this server is not allowed, so your message was removed

[hollow cairn]

Hello, someone help me with one thing, I new in the python world, and I want to work with programing, but I don´t now any jobs who accepts junior and my bad english, someone helps me?

i am new*

[smoky quest]

Sure. A CS degree will be the path of least resistance and with the most opportunities and compensation

[hollow cairn]

CS?

[pine sleet]

computer science

[hollow cairn]

aaaa

thanks

course or university?

[smoky quest]

degree

[pine sleet]

university degree. as long as its accredited

[hot hornet]

what about courses and books? Can they be enough?

[smoky quest]

no

[balmy spade]

The pathway of a degree is the easier road. Without one you will face a significant uphill battle to be noticed.

[hot hornet]

Do you have any experience or do you just rely on what you've been told?

[balmy spade]

For better or worse, it is the standard filter of measure for hiring. It can be frustrating because it's not a guarantee. But it is looked for, specifically. So, if you even have the option it is worth.

[hot hornet]

I heard about a guy who jumped from company to company and finally had such a CV that he got into Microsoft (all without studying)

[balmy spade]

Sure. You can bet on the low odds, or the high odds. recursive_error speaks toward focusing on those high odds.

[hot hornet]

Correct. I was just wondering if there was another path that is also effective

[balmy spade]

No. The other path is not as effective. It's the exception. Exceptions are never as effective as the norm. That's why they are called the exception.

Regardless of the path, you have to put in the work. There's no shortcut.

[undone wing]

How would I go about learning python to create ai?

If anyone responds please @ me as I am not on discord.

or dm me I really need to get this going before october ends

[fringe sphinx]

Ask in #python-discussion for learning resources

[smoky quest]

yes

[smoky quest]

Other paths have a far greater resistance and with less opportunities and compensation. There is no secret or magic, other than nepotism

[pine sleet]

there are many such people. if you ask your question, it will be easier for them to answer

[valid tangle]

which do you guys think is more important and relevant for CS, cloud development and operations, cyber security, or AI development......

[pine sleet]

depends on what you want to do

[valid tangle]

well i heard cyber security isnt really entry level

so i should probably go with cloud.... just wanted to know what others thought

[pine sleet]

there are entry level roles of all of those

[valid tangle]

really? that makes me glad... i spoke with someone who said people in cyber security usually needs a solid foundation in cloud development... and thats its harder to get into

[pine sleet]

well, you can't really say that any of those you mentioned are "more important" or "relevant" for CS

you should pick what interests you and pursue that

[valid tangle]

the guy i spoke with said it like this - you cant just jump to level 100, you need to go one level at a time

but he coulda been lying idk

[pine sleet]

that sounds reasonable

[valid tangle]

well i guess ill do more research and see thanks for the help

[grand totem]

Anyone that can do zoom lessons for a complete beginner to python and teach python basics to grow from?

[smoky quest]

We don't do tutoring. You are better off looking for specialized platforms

[tidal gazelle]

I asked this before but want to know more on it
Regarding the memes going around that software engineers are being unemployed and losing jobs is this actually true?

[formal forge]

It is

[tidal gazelle]

It’s true?

And from what position do you speak? As a software engineer yourself?

[formal forge]

Obviously, ai is eating jobs

[tidal gazelle]

This?

[formal forge]

I am still learning 💀

[tidal gazelle]

So no offense but how do I know if you know what you’re talking about

[formal forge]

Can't change the reality tho

[tidal gazelle]

What’s the reality though. Is your source social media because that obviously could be fake

[umbral frigate]

Right now, AI isn't really affecting many software engineers. Unless you are specialising in a general skill that could be done by practically anything, you don't have to worry.

[umbral frigate]

The thing is, unless AI really starts to accelerate, there isn't much to be worried about.

[tidal gazelle]

If I show you a list can you comment on the probability of it being replaced in a couple years

[umbral frigate]

The only people being replaced are people who don't work with AI being replaced by people who utilise AI to their advantage.

[tidal gazelle]

That is a complicated sentence

[umbral frigate]

You can read this article for more about it: https://www.coursera.org/articles/will-ai-replace-programmers

[tidal gazelle]

But anyways these are my fields to get my masters in
What do you think of this at least now

[umbral frigate]

That is certainly okay. Just reach for the stars and be who you aspire to be.

[opal fjord]

To devs: How valuable would a centralized platform be for managing and automating acknowledgments of authors, developers, and contributors in AI projects?

[scarlet mountain]

How do i make spaces from the last line? For example 3 3 3 and not 333

[fast fossil]

Shoot for the moon. Even if you miss, you'll land among the stars.
- Norman Vincent Peale

[strange nova]

Do you have any idea of what you're leaning towards?

[hazy flame]

Hey I want to participate in upcoming gsoc 2025 (in robotics governing organizations); is anyone interested, we could make a project related to robotics or self driven cars together

I am currently working on a bipedal robot (but we are just using the ik parameters)..so yeah we could make something together

[true harness]

why are you getting a masters if you don't know what you want

[white relic]

Perhaps they're doing a combined bs+ms and have to choose the master's subject to declare

[tidal gazelle]

the course im doing is a BEng with masters

the course starts in september i havent even started it yet but i just opted for the BEng + masters now instead of waiting till later

[white relic]

Combined programs are good bang for your buck

but tbh you shouldnt have to choose a concentration area before even starting. any of those options could lead to a good career and you don't know what interests you yet

[tidal gazelle]

yeah i know. i just wanted to ask because a lot of poeple even some of my friends make fun of CS as a job, and this is thanks to social media

[white relic]

Make fun of CS? How?
Is this the "coders are basement dwellers with no social skills" stereotype or what

[tidal gazelle]

no its actually a more recent one, and is regarding their employment
i dont know why or how it started

[fringe sphinx]

What social media is actually saying tech is dead? I just searched a bit and everything -I- hit basically either debunks that or says: it's complicated. I don't see few if any serious takes that tech is 'cooked'

[white relic]

well, you should be aware of local trends because I could quote statistics about the US that wouldn't apply to India, but if people are actually claiming CS is a dead end now because of recent market trends... they aren't paying attention

[fast fossil]

or yk, they're dragging by a long thread behind the hype train

[lilac sundial]

Is having work exp on ur resume vastly superior to having only done an internship somewhere

[fringe sphinx]

Is having more experience better than having less experience?

[true harness]

i think you can cook up situations where it's not the case, but on average, it's probably true

[gloomy depot]

FEIN FEIN FEIN

[warm relic]

does anyone have any advice in gaining experience which will be useful if i want a software engineering apprenticeship or if i wanna go study cs in uni?

[fringe sphinx]

Have you learned a programming language yet?

And, you mention apprenticeship: you're in UK?

[warm relic]

yeah ik python and some html, css and js but im not too good in the last 3. i’ve also created a game for my a level coursework and have made a website as a class project before

i used pygame to make the game btw

[fringe sphinx]

I don't know about apprenticeships (I'm in US), but for preparing for a CS degree:

• Strong maths is important. Take the toughest math classes you can, and try to find the "fun" in math - there's more to math than math classes.

• Keep programming: strong programming skills will carry you a long way. Learn a little about a lot, rather than a lot about a little.

[full siren]

Hi, is it logical to do Phd directly without Masters degree for ML?

[fringe sphinx]

• Learn about the rest of CS fields. There's a lot of concepts you've probably never heard of. You don't need to be expert, but it's good to know general terms. One way to do this is to look at a CS Uni program, and look at the list of courses you take, and then research (a little) the topics.

[fringe sphinx]

• Get good with projects, they'll be simple at first but you'll work up to some interesting and complex projects.

And last one: - network / make friends / join clubs / be more than a geek.

[warm relic]

is there any specific areas of maths? because i took maths in college and idk what the equivalent qualification would be to us but i did mechanics and statistics and pure maths. but i didnt do further maths (which i think would be ap maths??)

[fringe sphinx]

US CS programs typically include: Calc, Linear, Stats and Discrete.

[warm relic]

so would it be useful to look at the more logical side of maths than like algebra and calculus and stuff?

software engineering

[full siren]

Hi, is it logical to do Phd after bachelor's directly without Masters degree for ML?

[fringe sphinx]

Depends what you're asking. To get into a good Uni program, a strong maths courseload is important.

[warm relic]

but again i think i should look into more fields cos idk all of them

[fringe sphinx]

If you're asking what a software engineer actually uses.... we don't do a lot of pure math... but schools emphasize math.

[near ocean]

Dont spam, look at phd programmes first and see if they'd even let you in without a masters

[warm relic]

okay thank you guys!

[full siren]

Im not spamming, I felt like my msg was ignored that's why I wanted to post it one more time.

[dapper bane]

is there any benefit of doing frameworks high in demand and low in supply will that strategy work. I have used this strategy to get whatever offers i got

[warm relic]

love your name

[near ocean]

You could have done some research yourself before you asked

[dapper bane]

but this doesnt work in international market like linkedin

[full siren]

I did, theres a program called "integrated phd", which lets you do PhD without Masters.

[fringe sphinx]

I mean, it's a good idea to look at LinkedIn and see what keywords are in demand. I'm not sure you can "cram" enough knowledge to say you're proficient at something within a few weeks... but if you're thinking a few months to a year out, you can probably improve a resume sufficiently to improve your odds.

[near ocean]

An integrated phd basically rushes an msc's curriculum in the main program
If you think you can keep up then sure, go ahead and contact an admissions office

[full siren]

Is it better to go into this program or do masters first then apply for phd?

[fringe sphinx]

as far as I recall, phd programs don't require masters... you just have to fill in the equivalent coursework, but that was how my Uni was structured. I happened to get my masters first tho.

[full siren]

I'm interested in artificial intelligence (doing my internship in computer vision specifically and am currently 2nd grade) and I want to go with this field. I researched what big companies require and I saw that they want Masters/Phd for the role

[near ocean]

In the UK, for example at Imperial, they ask for a masters usually

Applicants are expected to have a First Class or Distinction Masters level degree, or equivalent, in a relevant scientific or technical discipline, such as computer science or mathematics.
Candidates who have only a Bachelors degree will not normally be considered. For candidates in possessions of a Master's level degree at Distinction, we also assess prior undergraduate degrees, for which the normal departmental acceptance level is 2.1 UK equivalent or above.
https://www.imperial.ac.uk/computing/prospective-students/courses/phd/phd-application-guidelines/

So does UCL and probably most other colleges

[lost fern]

In UK the PhD is mostly research, and supposed to be 3 years which people often stretch (e.g. writing up after they run out of funding). In US it's more like a MPhil with graduate courses and exams before moving on to research, and the whole thing takes longer.

[short fern]

how do I find the right IT carrer for me? I have made no breakthrough and still confused

I like developing software and maybe a bit of component making

[fringe sphinx]

I think few people 'plan' their way through a career. You prepare for a variety of opportunities, and seize the best opportunity and see where you can ride it

(This is perhaps terrible advice, but certainly has been my experience $

[short fern]

can you simple it up, I'm a little bad at english

[fringe sphinx]

Apply to jobs, take the best job, repeat.

[short fern]

I'm a minor.

[fringe sphinx]

Get a degree

[short fern]

ok focus on college first? But what degree I want is the problem also...

[fringe sphinx]

CS if you want to be a programmer. If you like something else, then pick that

[short fern]

ok

[fringe sphinx]

Right now: get good at Maths, and practice programming.

Math class (in school) is boring, but Maths is exciting: find a way to like Math even if you hate class.

[short fern]

I think I'll try frontend

[fringe sphinx]

That's not a decision you need to make now. Have fun and keep learning different things.

[short fern]

So just get good at logic

after all programming is building a mansion with infinite resources with no blue print

[fringe sphinx]

Yes and no. Logic is important, and programming is all about logic. But: maths is important too, especially for Uni... and important for ML and AI

[short fern]

oh

[tight cairn]

Hello everyone, can certifications from udemy help me while applying for a college or for a job?

[peak halo]

No

[tight cairn]

Okay... Is there anything else that would be of help?

[fringe sphinx]

Applying for college is very diff from applying for a job

[tight cairn]

I want to apply for college. What should I do besides what I'm learning at school?

[fringe sphinx]

Here was my earlier answer to similar q: #career-advice message

[tight cairn]

My mathematics is pretty strong. I'm currently learning mySQL, python, full-stack development. Are these things enough for now?

[fringe sphinx]

For sure, you'll be ahead of your peers for sure. For CS prep, it would t hurt to get familiar with DSA (do not grind, but learning some basics or doing easy problems will make some things easier)

Also; read about history of computing and CS. It's not necessary, but if you want to be in any field, knowing the history is helpful.

In terms of your college app, joining clubs or other extra curriculars is helpful. Join the robotics club, if they have one, etc

[proud sun]

Hello Everyone, I am a student. I want to workout in a product in machine learning. I know programming language like c,c++,java,python. I have also been learning books from Oreilly publication and YT channel. How should I get started ?

[dapper bane]

this might sound dumb but are there any python niches where demand is high and supply is low ?

[near ocean]

If demand would be high i dont think you'd call them niches tbh
Python is mostly used in web dev, ai/ml, data eng, automation and theres plenty of demand and supply in those areas

[opal fjord]

quick question for devs: How valuable would a centralized platform be for managing and automating acknowledgments of authors, developers, and contributors in AI projects?

[fringe sphinx]

This is not helpful answer but: demand is high for exceptional engineers. Great engineers (preparation, knowledge, practical experience) are less common than you'd think.

Lots of niches come and go, and it's hard to gauge supply and demand. People tend to chase the trend, so there's a bazillion resumes with PyTorch and ML keywords all over them.

So, the resumes I'd want to see show some engineering skills (darkwind's posts here are great)along with some practical programming experience. I don't care about specialty (personally) because I can train

[lilac sundial]

Are darks posts in the pins?

[fringe sphinx]

No, but prob should be. Just search this channel from 'Darkwind the dark duck'

[dapper bane]

i need something solid to build on . i did a niche called godot engine and got instantly the opportunity to interview

[fringe sphinx]

Nice, my usual advice is pick some adjacent to your last project that you know nothing about. That builds breadth, but not just random.

[dapper bane]

is there no framework in python that matches what i want ?

[tight cairn]

Thank you so much for your advice my friend

[fringe sphinx]

When did you ask about a framework? Am I missing a question here?

[dapper bane]

i meant something niche related to python could be a framework

if someone knows something then pong pong me

[tight cairn]

Can anyone suggest some websites where I can find coding project ideas depending upon my skill level?

[inner wren]

Kindling Projects

The Kindling projects page on Ned Batchelder's website contains a list of projects and ideas programmers can tackle to build their skills and knowledge.

[lost fern]

Having a certification from AWS or Azure etc. helps if you are applying for a cloud/data engineer/architect job in a place that uses AWS or Azure. I'm not familiar enough with Udemy, do they offer courses on AWS etc. certifications? The certification that actually matters will be from the cloud provider themselves. Otherwise it's just a course.

[fringe sphinx]

Programming is full of niches. Want ideas? Watch PyCon 2024 videos, you'll see many

But learning a niche is kinda pointless for job searching... imo

[dapper bane]

I can't be sitting idle I need atleast something to go on

[tight cairn]

Udemy offers courses in all disciplines. Many prominent organisations upload courses there. Once u complete the course, you're awarded a certificate from Udemy itself.

[narrow thistle]

here everyone discussing about their career?

[narrow thistle]

thats my question, but my math is weak.

[lost fern]

ok let me explain what I mean. I've done a Coursera course on GCP, so I have a coursera certificate which means I watched the videos, I successfully did the labs, any quizes etc. But it's not a GCP certification. There are GCP certifications, associate cloud engineer, data engineer, architect etc. You can find courses for them but what really matters is passing the GCP exam and getting certified from Google Cloud themselves. And the same applies for AWS, Azure etc.