career-advice

[minor edge]

Hey guys, I am a frontend developer with about 2 years of experience, I recently moved to Italy because of my girlfriend and I am struggling finding a job because I don't speak the language yet and the city she lives in is not the very big. I've been looking for a remote position for more than 2 months now but without any luck. Any tips you can give me?

[peak halo]

I suppose this means you're eligible to work for any company in the EU?

[near ocean]

Other than blatant lying and possibly fraud?

[cobalt moat]

not that i would actually do it, im just curious

[novel tartan]

I made my first program in python

todo = [] #Declaring a to do list

def adding (): #Function for adding list
Choice = str(input("What do you want to add: "))
todo.append(Choice)
print("Item added succsesfully")

def subtract ():
Num = str(input("Which item do you want to subtract: "))
todo.remove(Num)
print("Item removed succesfully")

def view ():
print(todo)

while 2<3:

task = int(input("Enter 1 to add an item\nEnter 2 to remove an item\nEnter 3 to view list\nYour choice: ")) #Declaring a variable for user input

if task == 1:
adding()

elif task == 2:
subtract()

else:
view()

[pine sleet]

there's nothing wrong with it aside from the wrong parts. hypothetically speaking. Since that would just be lying or fraud like mar pointed out

[cobalt moat]

I’m proud of you !

[lyric marten]

hi

[near ocean]

You risk being blacklisted and never hired in the industry

[cobalt moat]

theres a blacklist?

how is that maintained?

[white relic]

it's on github but you have to be a member of the Python Mafia

In seriousness, people talk and HR people talk to each other. I don't know what the original question was about anymore but if it's about misrepresenting yourself also consider that people can and do check in to almost anything you claim to have done

and if you do slip by HR, and it comes out later, then you'll be fired

[cold ore]

Sweet! Check out the Click project: https://click.palletsprojects.com/en/8.1.x/ to make it easier to build CLIs

[quaint lily]

What field of programming is the highest paying?

[true harness]

probably something in finance, like quant or hft

[quaint lily]

Whats quant and hft?

[buoyant seal]

some kind of IT CTO. (highest management roles)

How much does a Chief Technology Officer make in the United States? The average Chief Technology Officer salary in the United States is $298,025 as of September 25, 2023, but the range typically falls between $260,653 and $342,202. Salary ranges can vary widely depending on many important factors, including education, certifications, additional skills, the number of years you have spent in your profession. With more online, real-time compensation data than any other website, Salary.com helps you determine your exact pay target.
https://www.salary.com/research/salary/benchmark/chief-technology-officer-salary

[true harness]

that's like junior level pay in some finance firms

[buoyant seal]

ergh? there exist juniors that receive 290'000$+?

[true harness]

reportedly

[near ocean]

if you have to ask about quant/hft, youre not getting it
dont chase the bag, go get a degree

[true harness]

yeah, tbh, you would know

[near ocean]

well, i wouldnt know, lol 💀

[true harness]

I meant "you" as in "a person looking to get into HFT or quant"

[buoyant seal]

a lot of money can be earned also in some NFT crypto scam

Currently, we are working with a company that is looking for a Mid-Senior to Senior Backend Software Engineer (NFT Foundry). I think this position could be a great fit for you, and I want to make sure you don’t miss what is potentially a good opportunity for you.

Here are the details about the Mid-Senior to Senior Backend Software Engineer (NFT Foundry) position at Matchday. This is a “Remote First” organization headquartered in San Francisco, with an office in Barcelona as a centre of gravity for their European operations. Therefore, you can be based wherever you want in Europe. You just need to be happy to make occasional trips to meet the team in Barcelona.

If you have an interest in football and want to be part of the founding team of one of the most ambitious and well-connected start-ups in the mobile game industry, you should find this opportunity interesting.

They are extremely well-funded and offer top-of-the-market salaries, depending on experience and location, plus equities. Another way of putting it, they have confirmed that they can accommodate exceptional candidates wherever they are based. It’s all about experience and track record.
https://www.matchday.com/news/matchday-roadmap-for-the-next-6-months
Ownership for everyone
Games are about emotions. Layer on true ownership, and we create a much more powerful experience. We empower fans to truly own our items, by using the blockchain and NFTs. And we build our games so that they are accessible by everyone, whether you have, or don’t have, a blockchain wallet.

[white relic]

The highest paid technical roles are those at the intersection of technology and some other highly skilled field with a lot of money in it.

Finance is an example

[white relic]

What a lot of people mean when they ask a question like that is, what's the highest paying job I can get with a high school education? Or what's the highest paying job I can get with a bachelor's degree? Or how do I maximize my salary:work ratio? And those all have different answers

[vapid jay]

i got something

[smoky quest]

you should use the <@&831776746206265384> alias instead of calling out people

[rugged cypress]

I was proving a point to him

[tender thicket]

it just made more of a mess. The ping to HSI was fine I suppose, but other than that less is more

[restive belfry]

Computer engineer or Cloud engineer?

[white relic]

Personally I picked the first one

but then I guess "cloud engineer" wasn't really a thing at the time

[coral vine]

how bad is it to miss my first team zoom meeting for my future swe internship ? i forgot to convert PST to CST. I am so bummed out. I was looking forward to meeting my team

[peak halo]

I'm not really clear on what a "cloud engineer" is tbh. is it just the AWS admin for a team?

[mental isle]

Mashallah ur Muslim my brother can u help me code

@peak halo

[peak halo]

try opening a thread; the instructions are in #❓｜how-to-get-help

[true harness]

that's not a good look 😬. but if it was just some orientation thing it's probably not that important

[peak halo]

hard to say how bad it will be if we don't know the dynamic of the team you've joined. but you can't change that it happened. all you can do is be more punctual in the future and hope that it smooths out.

[delicate bane]

oof. if it makes you feel better, time zone issues are more common than you would think.

[coral vine]

it was one part orientation and one part meet the business team and it was going to have other interns in there and we could ask questions about the internship. I am really shocked and saddened that this happened, but i never had to think about time zones very much before.

i emailed hr right away and asked if they had a recording :/ and it sucks because it is a big company and i dont have any of their contact information aside from hr. sighhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

[coral vine]

it does make me feel better but still, gulp !

[white relic]

It is what it is. No point worrying about it now. And you won't likely make that mistake a second time. Sometimes making a little mistake is a better teacher than a lot of warnings

[drowsy sage]

Since I'm working at home at the moment. I'm thinking of becoming a discord moderator since I can both get paid and work from one place. Do you know where can I apply?

[vapid jay]

I'm doing VA for someone asking me to making freelance account and hire people. Do you guys think it's a scam? Will I get in trouble if it was?

[smoky quest]

Can you expand a bit?

[vapid jay]

I'll be the one using my account for publishing job offers. It's like me being a middleman for his job screening. I think the platform would be upwork but If it was a scam will I get in trouble?

[leaden jasper]

I don't know of a server where moderators are paid. It's frequently just something people do for fun/free.

[gritty rivet]

Sounds shady.

If you're asking whether you can get in trouble with Upwork, read their ToS. If you're asking about trouble with the law, find a lawyer.

[rugged cypress]

idk if that can get money...

[drowsy sage]

https://osgamers.com/faq/do-some-discord-mods-get-paid

The site said I can get paid through multiple paths so I'm asking for advice

[smoky quest]

sounds like a scam

Every time someone asks you to be the person in the middle and the only value you provide is the fact that it is under your name, it means you are used to hold the bag once the scam is pulled. And so yes, indeed, you could get into trouble

[drowsy sage]

That's something I'm aware of. I might look for other jobs as well. See if anything works

[uneven valve]

real

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, total scam. Besides the obvious part (that this is a well known style of scam): No legit business would use employee or contractor bank accounts: your accountants:bookkeepers would have an absolute fit

[smoky quest]

double employment is something I would recommend against

[drowsy sage]

Understood

[long solar]

Is chatgpt gonna take my job

[smoky quest]

it depends on the job

[long solar]

data entry

[smoky quest]

if it's easy to automate with chatgpt, then it might

[long solar]

My pinnacle

[long solar]

What do I do

[smoky quest]

upskill yourself so it's not so easy to replace you

[long solar]

So what do I learn

[smoky quest]

a CS degree is the path of least resistance and with the most opportunities and compensation

[long solar]

BA or BS

[smoky quest]

BS or better

[long solar]

I graduate a year earlier if I go for BA. Less time for chatgpt to advance over me

[smoky quest]

with a BA it's easier for chatgpt to advance over you 🙂

[long solar]

Time is of the essence

I heard personal portfolio of projects matters more than anything

[smoky quest]

a bs with a great portfolio will matter even more

Either way, I wouldn't sweat it. Your career will be 40 years long. So waiting to get your bsc will be worth it anyway and will have a stronger impact than not having it

[long solar]

What if gpt 7 comes out and I'm screwed

[smoky quest]

then you will have the knowledge and skills to use it efficiently and use it as a tool to augment yourself rather than replace you
=> that's the value of a bsc/ms

[long solar]

I could get my BA, then have my job pay for my masters

[smoky quest]

Some people succeed, but I would contend that most people fail at that.
Once you get out of school, it's very difficult to get back to it

[long solar]

Difficult as in to find a job that'll fund you or difficult as in you'll do poorly in the classes?

My brother did that but he is a plastics engineer

[smoky quest]

both.
Most jobs will look for a bsc or more. So not having a bsc will hurt you.
And then failing classes is real as you have a full time job and may have family and life stuff going on. Plus when you start making money, you will see less priority in school

[vapid jay]

It's so sad that people are willing to scam others for their profit and even hire innocent people for their escape goats. They don't even care whether the person they hire is going to prison like how can they even sleep knowing they put innocent people in jail or get innocent people in trouble.

[long solar]

40 years, even with advancements in AI?

[smoky quest]

depends on how much you believe in UBI

[vapid jay]

I've seen a lot of jobs that are scam from LinkedIn. Mostly virtual assistant and entry level jobs. It's the very job that offers salary for people that has no experience or degrees. It's a second chance kind of job for them for leaving school due to their circumstances.

I hope LinkedIn be strict and only let people who are actually verified to offer job employments.

Ps: Just leave me be I'm venting

[summer roost]

as AI stands today, it's nowhere near being able to replace a professional programmer. Anyone who claims to know whether it will or won't be able to do so in the next 20 years is selling snake oil

[vapid jay]

I beg to differ. If you were to remember the AI's capabilities 10 years ago you'd realize that it's nowhere near today. And if you were to observe how AI improved five years from now, you'd notice its tremendous change. AI's before weren't able to comprehend and is not capable of interpreting questions that they were asked. The thought of it being able to do so now is my very reason to object to your statement.

[eager jungle]

Can AI catch up to humans or not?

That can be answered by only how an human solves an problem vs, How AI solves an problem.

We humans have "curiosity", by that we find properties of the materials, which has nothing to do with survival.
like for example: finding out property of silicon, which is just an normal element in the sand

and the ability to substitute parts of ideas with other ideas, for example: using the property of P-type silicon and N-type silicon to create a transistor.

According to me, we humans can be only replaced when AI has curiosity,

i.e it has become sentient and have emotions.

AI is now used to automate stuff, which just need book knowledge to do it.

[smoky quest]

While I don't think AI will replace us, it can already demonstrate creativity.
See things like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolved_antenna or the exploitation vs exploration literature

[eager jungle]

Creativity is different from curiosity.

Taking a step in a random direction is creativity, but
curiosity is the reason why it takes a step.

The AI has creativity, because of our human curiosity of working of AI

For example, AI has no reason to create that antenna, it dosent care if antenna exists or not. It was the human curiosity that made the goal of an AI to create that antenna.

The most dangerous method, for me is the evolutionary model, cause it can evolve.

The computer program starts with simple antenna shapes, then adds or modifies elements in a semirandom manner to create a number of new candidate antenna shapes.

[eager jungle]

It was a semi-random method, means they were brute forcing a bit

[summer roost]

yes, it's definitely true that there has been a massive leap forward in AI over the last 10 years. It's also true that current AIs are nowhere close to being able to replace even a junior software engineer. People who are betting that AI might be able to replace professional programmers in the next decade or two are betting that the pace of progress in the AI field will not just be sustained, but that it will in fact speed up, and we will have many more huge leaps forward of the kind that we've seen in the last decade. Maybe we will - but, maybe we won't.

[smoky quest]

We are talking about an evolutionary process. It's not really brute force

[smoky quest]

That had nothing to do with curiosity. It had to do about fulfilling the objective of an antenna which itself fit into a bigger objective

That's also getting a bit too far from #career-advice

[eager jungle]

Yes, tbh

[floral rain]

y'all know a good python ide for android? aside from pydroid3

[smoky quest]

It's unrelated to this channel. You may want to ask in #editors-ides

[minor edge]

Yes I am eligible to work in the EU.

[brazen island]

Seems like your best bet is a remote job in another EU country

[minor edge]

Thanks man, that's what I am trying to do atm. I guess I will keep digging then.

[vapid jay]

I believe that topic is unnecessary as AI is but a utility for humans to utilize. AI is made from our intellect and thus the relationship of AI and human's intellect is mutual.

[brazen island]

Yeah, I don't think you have any other option realistically 🙂 In my LinkedIn I see a fair share of remote jobs on offer in the EU so you should find something eventually

[flat tiger]

What courses/resources would you recommend for learning today?
I have like some base, but for the first time I'm gonna need to actually use Python at work.

[white relic]

!resources If you're already past the level of Automate the Boring Stuff and you want to become more effective, Fluent Python would probably be my next suggestion.

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

[flat tiger]

I wouldn't say I'm on that level, but that resource page is exactly what I was looking for.

I assume there's no outdated sources there? 😅

[true harness]

wouldn't you also be taking less CS courses with the BA? it's not just about how quickly you can graduate, college is for learning things

[gritty rivet]

Nonsense. This is a made-up story for people who don't like school. What you need to do to have a good career is to invest in your skills and credentials. It's not a race against time.

[pseudo lintel]

I need help

[gritty rivet]

#❓｜how-to-get-help Unless it's a career question, then just ask it here

[pseudo lintel]

Is asking for help for making a game a career question?

[white relic]

no

[pseudo lintel]

Oh ok

Well where can I ask for help making a game

[mint oracle]

#game-development

[spark stump]

Hey we need to talk about alo y ejo :for all epic reealrl

😭 & this all for sell

[gritty rivet]

Uh, no

[crisp stream]

!rule 6 @maiden heart

[inner wren]

Rules

6. Do not post unapproved advertising.

[maiden heart]

How do I get approval for a post?

[crisp stream]

DM @severe widget

[blazing harbor]

so true... but also college is expensive

[pine sleet]

more of an investment than anything. You need to put money in to get money out

[blazing harbor]

yeah but if graduating in 3 saves you $60k 🤷‍♂️ I'd say it's worth it

[pine sleet]

perhaps but spending that extra $60k at the start would give you a head start

[true harness]

it's a tradeoff, like everything else

[white relic]

College now costing 30k per semester? 👀

[true harness]

rich private schools 😔

[white relic]

I mean, I guess. Heck of a dichotomy.

[blazing harbor]

i mean it's nice

very easy to access alumni network, great classes, and stuff

just with a few emails, you can do top tier research and get a conference paper by the end of the year

[true harness]

that's not really related to how much tuition you pay

[blazing harbor]

no like private schools are nice

[true harness]

it's also not related to whether the school is private or not

[blazing harbor]

I don't go to a private school, but both of my siblings went to one paying $80k+/yr

[fringe sphinx]

We talking HS or College here?

[white relic]

yikes

[blazing harbor]

college

[fringe sphinx]

As the parent of a HS senior, yah, yikes.

[blazing harbor]

the ROI was quite high from CMU SCS and UPenn CS, and they were able to pay it off quick

[fringe sphinx]

My understanding is that few folks pay full rate. Ask me in 6 months tho.

[blazing harbor]

you would be surprised

I think it's around 40% get some sort of aid (the rest pay full tuition)

[fringe sphinx]

Internship?

[blazing harbor]

and the 40% much less than full tuition ofc

[fringe sphinx]

There's also merit based stuff... my understanding is most people get some sort of merit offers. But again, waht do I know.

[blazing harbor]

no merit based stuff for top schools (private)

[fringe sphinx]

I know quite a few folks who got merits for fairly good schools (mostly private). It becomes part of the decision maker: you get X acceptances, but which ones gave merit?

[blazing harbor]

Harvard doesn't provide merit based scholarships, CMU doesn't either, UPenn doesn't, Yale doesn't, but you can get some from private orgs

I got a merit scholarship, but I go to a public university t20 (University of Michigan)

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, good thing my son isn't getting into a top 5 🙂

[blazing harbor]

You never know 🤷‍♂️

[fringe sphinx]

Oh, I know.

Maybe he writes the worlds best essay, ig.

[blazing harbor]

You're always surprised in the app season. I was deciding between UIUC ($60/yr+), Berkeley($80k/yr+), Columbia ($80k/yr+), and UMich ($40k/yr+). I choose umich bc of price and also business program is cool

I also went to a very competitive high school, and felt that it was in my best interest for health purposes to take it chill. It's been great at umich!

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, that makes a lot of sense (and a logical choice)

[blazing harbor]

I can priortize my health in college, getting 8 hours of sleep every night, minimizing stress etc. But, I'm not sure if that can carry on to the job

I kinda screwed up my health with regularly getting 3 hours of sleep, stress, etc. I didn't know the damage until 2-3 years passed

[fringe sphinx]

High school is just such a terrible experience and poor prep for college & work.

Too much work, jammed schedules, etc... just not realistic. (speaking as a parent here)

[blazing harbor]

I think this next generation is going to face lots of trouble in the future, with problems related to sleep. There is going to be a rise of population w/ early dementia, etc

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, my local HS finally pushed their start time last year from 7am to 8am. Was crazy... 7am start meant a 6:15 bus.

I think my kids average 5-6 hours a night of sleep.

[blazing harbor]

You have to pump up those numbers. I slept 12 hours today

[fringe sphinx]

You said something about work / life balance. I find it much easier to manage, but it depends on the job. Most SWE companies are fairly flexible... but some of the larger companies (especially in finance) are trying to go back to full-time in-office.

The funny thing about in-office is it often means less working hours: you tend to not work so late.

[near ocean]

Your commute is part of the work

[blazing harbor]

yeah I'd like to come to the office tbh. I just hope the commute isn't bad

[true harness]

why don't i get paid for commuting then 😔

[blazing harbor]

I would become a lazy shit if I don't start commuting. I walk around 5-6 miles everyday in university just walking to classes, etc

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, there's all sorts of environments. I just visited a company in NYC where the SWEs are on 3-4 day a week schedules in office. I can't imagine commuting into NYC every day.

[near ocean]

Skill issue? I used to work 8-6 and my commute would fit in those hours

[true harness]

wait actually? you would get paid for time spent commuting?

[near ocean]

No lol i'd just get to work late

[fringe sphinx]

Most of my corporate jobs ahve had "core hours"... like, everyones expected 10-4, but you can work 8-4 or 10-6 or whatever. Variations on that.

And in reality, many days would go long.

[blazing harbor]

I also find that high school stresses too much about grades. I remember finishing exams, just to talk about it with friends. I would see exam problems in my sleep, and I would find the "right answer." I have never been as stressed as I was in high school. The college mindset tbh is "do your best and wait for your score"

[true harness]

that sounds exactly the same

[blazing harbor]

I mean you forget about the exam after you take it

[deft herald]

College for me was more stressing about projects rather than exams

[blazing harbor]

I still need to work on my nerves when opening up exams. I could barely open my proof based linear algebra exam yesterday night

[fringe sphinx]

Ugh. School is easy until you get to proof-based & theoretical math.

[true harness]

that seems more of a personal thing rather than a hs vs college thing

[blazing harbor]

yeah after proof based linear algebra, I'll get to abstract algebra or real analysis next sem

[fringe sphinx]

Given your (obv) strong math skills, are you interested in quant as a field?

[blazing harbor]

Yeah, but not so much the WLB. I prioritize my health now

btw my proof based linear algebra went very well

[fringe sphinx]

What's after abstract algebra or analysis for you? That's heading into graduate course level stuff, I think.

[blazing harbor]

I think maybe graph theory or probably combinatorics

[tepid marsh]

Hello, I need help with my password protected tool.

I would like the password gui to close and the main gui to open after the successful password entry.

does anyone have a moment ? in PM

[pine sleet]

You should ask in #1035199133436354600

[blazing harbor]

wrong place

[tepid marsh]

i have but no one is writing so I thought I would try here.

[pine sleet]

Well, this is the wrong channel regardless. Please keep all conversation related to the topic of the channel

[tepid marsh]

ok

[noble dawn]

Are interns supposed to know about design patterns ?

[steel kindle]

Depends on the company

[noble dawn]

Do most or less do

[steel kindle]

I think it really depends on the company, my company asked some questions about them during my interview and nothing about coding, but that doesn’t seem to be the norm.

I would say study them but probably don’t prioritize them

[noble dawn]

And i was going to be given an offer for machine learning engineering role but unfortunately all qualified applicants including i were told to wait till january because of #restructing

[true harness]

most interns will have been coding for a few years already, so i would probably guess some design patterns will have been learned. whether or not they test them is different

[noble dawn]

What do they mean by restructioning

[noble dawn]

Oh so its nothing complex

[steel kindle]

Generally no, but some companies focus on them in interviews

[noble dawn]

You were asked nothing about coding in an interview

Do anyone here freelance on upwork

[steel kindle]

Nothing about syntax no

I would saying design patterns/general design concepts have to do with coding though

[smoky quest]

it's not expected but it's better and awesome if you do

[steel kindle]

I think the company I interned at is definitely an outlier in that regard

[smoky quest]

might even be down to the interviewer

[noble dawn]

I there anyway to discuss with the interview upfront

[smoky quest]

It's common for people to have bias towards things they have seen themselves when they were in school but not fully realize that different schools teach slightly different things and put points in slightly different topics

[smoky quest]

Can you expand?
Like a pre-interview interview?

[steel kindle]

Maybe, you could always try sending an email

[fringe sphinx]

Is OP asking about “Design Patterns” (GoF) or just design patterns in general?

[smoky quest]

What questions would you ask?

[fringe sphinx]

If GoF Patterns, I’d be surprised if undergrads are expected to know it: many folks never cover it in their Software engineering course

[steel kindle]

Yeah I was referring to just general mostly, but some of the GoF patterns were in the interview

I’ve actually never read about them though

[smoky quest]

It's worth a read. It's pretty well written and still applicable today

It's also interesting to see how they compare to other patterns in use in other non-OOP languages

[steel kindle]

Yeah I mean I’ve read some other books/sources about them but I’ll have to check that out

Looking at them on google we do use a lot of them pretty frequently

[noble dawn]

Wondering if its possible to talk with the interviewer upfront before the interview

[noble dawn]

Tips and paths to take on preparing for the interview and how long the interview time span is. And the rate of success of applicants. To know how tough i should prepate

Because i dont wanna end up working hard and ending up meeting what i never learnt in the interview at a large quantity

[noble dawn]

Thats cool. Nice tip

What should i do to gain my second contract on up-work after succeeding in the first contract that happened to be a external job application that had their project payment schedules on upwork

Is there like a resource i can dive into to be outstanding to clients on upwork

[steel kindle]

Honestly not sure, I’ve only done a few freelance contracts and they weren’t on Upwork.

[arctic cliff]

Hey everyone, i have 2 years experience in python doing job but less payable my skills python Django and React. and i have no work, is anything wrong i am doing?

[steel kindle]

2 years of experience working or since you started learning

[arctic cliff]

working

[peak halo]

so you have two years of work experience, but you're not employed currently? because two years of self-study and practice don't count as years of "experience" as far as job hunting goes.

[steel kindle]

Is that full time work or just contracts here and there

[peak halo]

why are you not still doing your most recent job?

[arctic cliff]

No, i have job but less paying

[peak halo]

Okay. When you say "I have no work", that tells people that you don't have a job.

[arctic cliff]

I am doing job, but by that job i not fullfill my family expenses

[peak halo]

what country are you in?

[arctic cliff]

apologies for mistake i am doing job but not fullfill my needs

[arctic cliff]

Pakistan

[peak halo]

Okay, hopefully someone from Pakistan or India can give you some job hunting advice

[arctic cliff]

if i get remote job hope. i mange my expenses.

@peak halo can you recommend me something that i learn for getting remote job all over the world?

[peak halo]

I don't have any advice that I am confident would actually be helpful for you, and I don't want to mislead you.

[arctic cliff]

Thank you so much @peak halo

[arctic cliff]

full time job

[smoky quest]

you should be able to ask these questions when talking to the recruiter

[long solar]

Less math and less low level, like C

[noble dawn]

Okay thanks so far but How do i get the contact of the recruiter will it be listed on the job posting page or i need to do independent company research

[noble dawn]

I think you should ask yourself which skill is the most widely accepted in remote worldwide jobs in tech.

[pliant bobcat]

can i work in fang without work experience or masters on Machine learning or data analysis positions?

[noble dawn]

Whats data entry really like i learnt its the simplest job in ai

[white relic]

the recruiter is generally the first person to contact you if you are qualified and may conduct a phone screen before setting up a technical interview

[pliant bobcat]

I might apply to masters in germany to increase my chances on applying to data science positions . Is masters relevant a lot when applying to jobs?

[white relic]

By the time you have an interview scheduled you should already be in contact with the recruiter (or whoever your contact person is, they would be the one to ask meta questions about the interview)

[still scaffold]

Hello, quick question.In the PCEP exam, am I allowed to use PyCharm or anything else to calculate some mathematical problems?

[pliant bobcat]

My ML paper was published in IEEE I don't know how much will that help doe

[arctic cliff]

I am not sure so ask here

[arctic cliff]

hope you tell me better choice

[noble dawn]

Does it matters if there a lot of proposals on a job and i apply which is better between a job post with lets say 7 proposals but i have 60% of the skills they want than a job proposal of 22 proposals with 90% possession of the skills they are looking for

[noble dawn]

I think python is widely accepted. Some simple job in python would be python scripting which involves automating a real world task with pure python code needless for frameworks .

[arctic cliff]

i can do that can you tell me some libraries so i can learn and find work?

[white relic]

I don't understand this question. What do you mean by proposals? Other people applying for the same job?

[noble dawn]

Does masters really boost ones chances of a getting a job ? Ive seen masters denied for self taught with good combination of soft and tech skills

[noble dawn]

Yes exactly

[white relic]

My advice would be don't even look at that number

It's probably fake anyway and you have no way of knowing how good the other candidates might be

[noble dawn]

Hmm deep Understood

[pliant bobcat]

Hello there currently not working because preparing for IELTS and finishing some coursera courses but I read some articles and heard that some people got into data science majors with just work experience and some of them graduated from finance degrees and managed to get into data science positions (Not sure of the credibility of that info I read though)

[pliant bobcat]

It's about the balance between technical skills and soft skills I think

[pliant bobcat]

Like some people with extreme soft skills and low technical skills get accepted more than people with high technical skills and low soft skills

[noble dawn]

I agree with you with respect to finding a data science job with work experience in the Ai & data science field but im surprised about the part where ex financial field experts gain a role in dS

[pliant bobcat]

These people have a larger chance to work with finance sectors on data scientist if I am going to be honest . Like that person self taught himself data science topics and have deep knowledge on finance I think he would well in finance sectors related to data science.

[noble dawn]

Yes thats true but i think balancing the both is a gem

[pliant bobcat]

Exactly that is correct

[noble dawn]

Oh thats true the niche is what you’re talking about there is data science for health for finance etc

[pliant bobcat]

Yes exactly . Most of the people from google data analytics course were graduated from various sectors such as finance and even a navy seal managed to land a job on data analysis

Though I am not sure of the certificates power I will just complete it for the sake of knowledge and try applying junior positions on data analysis

um anyone knows another discord server for cs ? I feel like this server is not really active as it used to be

[smoky quest]

that will happen once you apply and they decide to reach out to you

[noble dawn]

Its better to have a server enriched with experienced people with low activity than an active server with newbies in the game

Though to be specific maybe you can join a server specifically focused on Ds mainly! As this is a python focused server

[pliant bobcat]

I agree about that

[pliant bobcat]

Not as active as this one haha . Guess I will stick with this server

[fringe sphinx]

Not active? Surprised you’d say this, this is one of the most active discords I’ve seen

[harsh river]

and this is a python specific server, are you looking for something else perhaps?

[pliant bobcat]

That certainly is true. It's ML subgroup is more active than ML servers themselves

[pliant bobcat]

machine learning and data science specific . But this server turned out to be the most active

[delicate bane]

perhaps you are looking for #python-discussion

[mortal wedge]

I’m job searching and seeing so many interesting jobs that want Python ML experience so I’m interested in officially adding it to my skill set. What level of experience do most of these companies seem to be looking for (the ones that sort of tack it on to the end of their posting) and how would I best go about acquiring said experience/knowledge?

[fringe sphinx]

every meeting / conference / whatever I go to is all ML AI stuff all the time. Even where it makes no sense. Agree 100% that it's a good move to get it in somehow.

Spent the day yesterday at a conference in NYC and even people running HR just wanted to talk about LLMs and generative ai.

[fringe sphinx]

My opinion is there's two sides of the AI/ML crowd. There's the data engineering types, who are all about infrastructure / data pipelines / frameworks / etc. They still do ML work, but generally stopping short of the research / science side of it.

[steel kindle]

A masters with a specialization in ML might be adequate

[mortal wedge]

Fair, but I'm hoping to do something far quicker than that

[mortal wedge]

I would ideally like to be involved in research/science as I'm passionate about it, but honestly at this point I'm primarily interested in just raising my appeal as a candidate.

[steel kindle]

I do think you’d probably need a masters or PhD for ML research

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, so for someone like you, I'd think the data engineering side / platform stuff / is where it's at. Kaggle projects (+ pandas / sql / etc) and so on.

[fringe sphinx]

But, there are a lot of ML engineering jobs that aren't "science" and not "research".

[steel kindle]

Well yeah, they mentioned research though

[mortal wedge]

Yeah, let me clarify. I'm in science and research, but not specifically science and research into ML. I want to use ML to aid in science and research in other fields (specifically medical device/biotech)

[fringe sphinx]

Ah, I took it wrong then... I was taking it from a SWE perspective: what hard skills to learn to get a job that's in SWE+ML.

[mortal wedge]

This sounds promising. I'm already highly proficient in sql/pandas. I admit I've never heard of Kaggle though

Oh. To be honest, I'd like to have appeal in that as well. I mean, can't hurt, right?

[fringe sphinx]

Kaggle is more of a community / collection of research topics... not a technology

[mortal wedge]

Gotcha

[steel kindle]

The main thing they do is host a bunch of datasets

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, it gets boring just working with Iris dataset (it's somewhat a joke because every data science course / class / intro starts with the Iris data)

[mortal wedge]

I'm honestly not even sure what companies are looking for when they request machine learning experience or claim they use machine learning.

I just know I don't have it. I have theoretical knowledge picked up from working with statisticians but no direct experience.

[fringe sphinx]

I don't know if there's a simple answer to that... what I see from my customers is: there's a small number of "scientists" (phd types or really deep business knowledge/analytical folks), a moderate number of ML folks (folks experimenting with LLMs and generative AI, etc), and then a large number of people working on the data engineering problems.

[steel kindle]

I actually didn’t see that one for a while

[mortal wedge]

https://www.udemy.com/course/python-for-data-science-and-machine-learning-bootcamp/ This looks kind of promising, and I can probably skip right to the machine learning stuff. Never used udemy before.

[fringe sphinx]

CS50 for AI is reportedly really good too. I like the syllabus and skimmed a few of the lectures

[mortal wedge]

Do you have a link handy by any chance? Or is it on udemy as well?

[fringe sphinx]

https://cs50.harvard.edu/ai/2023/

[fringe sphinx]

zestar75 also works in data science, maybe look for them in #data-science-and-ml . One of the pins is some books he recommended, altho they're fairly dense reading.

[mortal wedge]

I do learn best with academic style courses that let me go at my own pace. I will check both of these out

[true harness]

there's a few data engineers here too I think

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, I'm a DE, but that doesn't sound like what @mortal wedge is really looking for

[mortal wedge]

It might be. I'm sure I'll figure out what I need more as I start to learn, lol

I'm going to try tackling the course, thanks for the lead/info! @fringe sphinx

[fringe sphinx]

Also, many universities offer certificate programs that apply towards a masters. So, you could take 2-3 courses and show your interest in the field. Even taking one course / seminar / whatever might be a good plus in the resume.

Look for Professional Development programs at local universities.

[mortal wedge]

Huh, interesting. Honestly I wouldn't mind picking up a masters at some point. Just have to maintain employment since I have 30 years of crushing debt a mortgage

[delicate bane]

did someone say DE

just kidding. not this time.

[delicate bane]

you could have companies pay for it. my devops friend is going through his second masters paid for by his company

[gritty rivet]

second masters

💀

[delicate bane]

its a whole thing. remind me to tell you about it sometime

[kindred shadow]

i use bing ai to generate all my code (joke)

[steel kindle]

Honestly if it’s an online masters not that wild

Might as well if your employer pays for it

[long solar]

Come up with a business plan for a LLM startup and collect investments

[quaint agate]

I need guidance to learn kubernetes, infra Management and efficient microservices communication. I have good experience with python.
can someone guide me where i can practice, i dont have much money to invest rn, I'm a student. so i am confused.
plz tag me when reply to this message.

[smoky quest]

Hi!
That's a question for #tools-and-devops as it's not related to #career-advice

[quaint agate]

sorry, my bad.
thankyou

[clear lion]

Hello guys i wanted to ask which programming language should I master?
I'm 16 rn, and I have did a beginner course on C++, HTML, CSS
Currently I'm doing the Angela Yu's Udemy "100 Days Of Code Of Python" course and I wanted to ask should I do python like intermediately or should I just do the basics?

[fervent folio]

Basics and fundamentals first before anything

[cinder coral]

Hi i hope you all doing good,

my question is that i have applied for Master in US for for 2 courses which are MS business analytics and MS data science
so i got an acceptance in MS business analytics with Big data,
i want to become a data scientist, so will MS business analytics with Big data help on my carrer to data scientist
thank you

[sand hawk]

are there companies where metaclass level thinking is common, same with ast processing ? basically toying a lot with the language to solve problem in better ways

[lapis wind]

I was previously on a project where we did a lot of that

[sand hawk]

oh nice

[lapis wind]

it was shit, it was a cool idea, but holy fuck never do it.

[sand hawk]

Ha, i was about to ask. Cause I really love to think at that level of abstraction and want to be in such a team. What went wrong ?

[lapis wind]

As much as it's cool doing some custom DSL where you can write and transpile excel like formulas in Python, you know what sucks more? Debugging the fucking thing

[sand hawk]

Oh I see, I used to write micro debuggers for these long ago so maybe it could be managed.

[lapis wind]

It's great, right up until it breaks, and then you are left trying to debug stuff, to where it was actually easy for us to extend the transpiler to be able to re-export to Excel formulas to let Excel tell you what might have gone wrong

[sand hawk]

I see. Basically matching semantics is very subtle and hard

[lapis wind]

its not semantics, those were actually pretty easy to do. It's just when there is a bug in the system, be that in the transpiler, you typed the DSL wrong, or similar.

It was a fun project at the end of it, but it would have been 100x faster to do it with something like polars or pandas, rather than building an entire ecosystem of tooling and language

some stuff was neat, for example when doing floating point operations, the system could keep track of possible precision errors and correct for them

[sand hawk]

That's indeed cool.

[gritty rivet]

If you want videos and labs look at KodeKloud, then monthly subscription is reasonable. But there is plenty of free content, and the important thing is practice building stuff

[coral vine]

I got a reply from hr about my missed team meeting for the swe internship next year. The tone changed! No more smiley emojis or words of comfort. 😥 Just that they don’t have a recording of the meeting and that I can join the upcoming one in 3 weeks.

I’m relieved but hopefully I’m not on the shit list for messing up the time zones for the first meeting. I’m fearful! I’m aiming for a return offer.

[smoky urchin]

Ok

[gritty rivet]

I guarantee you'll make many similar mistakes for the rest of your career. Learn and do better, but try not to stress.

Hopefully you'll do better with timezones next time, but there will always be something else

[hidden bloom]

shld i use the term ongoing or present on cv

if i'm continuonlly doing something

[gritty rivet]

Maybe... What's the full phrase or sentence?

[hidden bloom]

not full phrase

its like date ex: (oct 2022-present)

[smoky quest]

If it's relevant, definitely.
But we lack enough information to provide a nuanced answerr

[hidden bloom]

ya but shld i do oct 2022-ongoing or oct 2022-present

[smoky quest]

present is better

[hidden bloom]

should i put experience first?
or shld i put education first?
lets say i don't go to a top uni, it's very eh... average.

i'm currently a university student btw

[smoky quest]

I would put education first until you have more experience

[muted hornet]

Hey everyone. I’m a freshman computer science. I started python recently. What route should i take to become a software engineer

[smoky quest]

Your degree already put you on that track

[muted hornet]

Please could you elaborate on what you mean basics and fundamentals. I think of it as learning syntax, functions, control flow, booleans and some data structures list tuples dict . Or are there other stuffs

[muted hornet]

Okay. What are the things I should be learning in python..

[smoky quest]

What jobs do you want to do?

Python is used in many different areas

[noble dawn]

Which has more weight or more value between having a sophisticated Software made by me on my resume vs having an advanced certificate like Google certs on resume.

And my resume cannot longer fit to a one page. Can i add extra page?

[smoky quest]

If you include a degree, then a degree would have a higher value than both.
Otherwise, projects have more value than certs

[noble dawn]

I have bsc in computer science

[smoky quest]

then yeah, a project would have a higher ROI

[wheat hatch]

Highly dependent on culture I would say. Where are you job hunting?

For example in my culture any resume above 1 page is instantly rejected, but it could be different in other places.

[noble dawn]

So its a good idea to focus on projects vs certs. I would have been doing more projects if i knew this rather than applying to certificationa

[wheat hatch]

And the reason for this is that recruiters have very little time to look at it

[noble dawn]

Im job hunting from Nigeria trying to find a remote job in Uk Us or canada

[smoky quest]

Anyone can deliver a cert.
I could deliver my own cert from the Worldwide @smoky quest Certs. That means nothing

[smoky quest]

The market is rather tough nowadays for people local. It will be even more difficult for people from other countries like Nigeria.
I would suggest to not neglect your local market as well

[noble dawn]

But why would they reject a resume more than one page? Doesn’t that proofs more experience

[smoky quest]

Because entry level engineers don't have enough experience to justify using more than one page. Doing so would denote a lack of communication skills.
Furthermore, most reviewers will review a resume within at most 30-45s. They just won't read your other pages

[wheat hatch]

Hmm, I have not worked too much with the US, but I have some experience with Canada. I would say a software project is more often better, it shows passion and commitment to actively improving your own skills. But with that said, there are some industries where certs are key. If it is a remote job I don't think you need to worry though, go for software project is my recommendation.

[wheat hatch]

The reason is partly because recruiters have very little time, they get hundreds, sometimes thousands of applications that they have to sift through. The second reason is that a long resume also shows an inability to filter what is important for the job in question. Nobody cares about experience in javascript for a job where it isn't used for example.

[noble dawn]

The local market focuses more on certificates and degree in nigeria

[noble dawn]

I understand that. About software projects how do i judge the complexity of software projects is it about how vast the algorithm is or how much the data is etc… please guide me

[wheat hatch]

I have always tried to key it to a specific industry that I am interested in. If I am interested in getting a job in the automotive industry for example, I might try to have a software project where I do something car-related. So far this have worked well in my experience.

[noble dawn]

And what are the required methodology to make a project a product that can be shipped

[noble dawn]

Ill basically summarize it more to keep it on one page.

[noble dawn]

I have more interest in finance and im planning to create a stock prices uncertainties prediction Ai using Deep q learning model (reinforcement L model)

[wheat hatch]

That sounds like a very nice project for showcasing, go for it!

[noble dawn]

If i get collaborators on my project do i still reserve the right to put it as a independent project on my resume or do i need to give credits to my team mates or collaborators ( github wise)

[noble dawn]

Ive written a 3 chapter proposal on it im trying to submit to a bank locally here

However would you rate it complex?

[wheat hatch]

In my experience it is easier to dev something alone when doing it as a showcase for a job. Imo it decreases the complexity and allows you to focus on the project itself. You can of course accept help from others though.

Also for showcase projects I usually try to keep the complexity low, so that I can actually produce something. An unfinished, highly complex project don't make for a good showcase.

I have no idea haha, I don't have any finance experience 😄

[noble dawn]

I also dont have finance experience and by the way can you list other industries that one can build a project for. Tbh you just opened my understanding to industry wise integrated software solutions and ill like you to enlighten me on industries that are remote heavy

[fringe sphinx]

The real test for me in a project is depth, not breadth; did you learn the subject at a sufficient level of depth to be able to answer questions about it? To explain design choices? Tradeoffs? Etc

Broad projects are also helpful to build your foundation, and I’m not saying not to do them… but most people can’t engage in a technical conversation about their projects at a sufficient level of depth

[wheat hatch]

@noble dawn : Pretty much any industry that doesn't have locked down R&D environments is moving in a remote direction. Finance, web, and gaming are 3 that I know of that is offering a lot of remote jobs. That being said I don't have a lot of experience in any of them.

@fringe sphinx : Definitely, it was very good that you pointed that out. For any project you build you must be able to answer questions about it on an interview. Stuff like why you decided X over Y and what were the pros and cons of that. Whether those questions are broad or deep depends on the job in my experience.

[fringe sphinx]

Finance is a bit weird… the big finance orgs I’ve seen are moving back to 3-4 day a week in office, including engineers (although more slack for engineers).

Engineers may vote with their feet tho, so who knows

[noble dawn]

So youre saying finance is going towards remote direction ?

[fringe sphinx]

Im saying that, of the big finance firms I see, they are moving back to office. Im just talking big finance.

[noble dawn]

I currently work as a software engineer for a financial company offering loans, assets acquisition, investments. I built their website. And its on my resume is it okay to enhance the website more even if they dont tell me too and the thing is i really dont have the idea of what new features they might need or want to pay for

Should i just but the stock market ai into this website ?

Or make it a solo app

[wheat hatch]

Yeah I have seen the same in some companies, especially after the pandemic. But again it varies, some companies quite like how they don't have to pay rent for expensive office areas. I know a lot of web dev companies that are off site anyway, so they don't particularly care if people are in the office or not.

[noble dawn]

Books or videos or university courses on course era to gain indepth understanding in Ai and machine learning

[ivory compass]

How long does it take you guys to learn about docker+kubernetes? What sort of apps would you guys suggest for it? Like data ingestion, api perhaps to really test the two technologies? I want to use these two technologies more often for my career.

[buoyant seal]

Start with book Docker Deep Dive to learn Docker in a structured way througly 😉
It will benefit greatly just your dev env already

Same author wrote The Kubernetes book.
Both books are up to date for 2023 year

[buoyant seal]

Kubernetes is great to put any stateless applications into it. APIs, even front is okay.
Message Queue workers, like celery worker and beat is great to put inside
Self hosted CI runners can go inside too
Kube native cron jobs can be (literally available k8s to have cron jobs)

Databases were meh for long time, people say it changed though and far better working to put some db inside
Cloud managed database is still more preferable

I would imagine it is okay enough to put in memory dbs like Redis and Memcache for caching into inside pretty fine too

[buoyant seal]

Learn ecosystem around. Deploying some easy helm solution for logging monitoring in kube
Some tracing could be good to have

[ivory compass]

Well thank you very much Duck, I was looking to upskill myself in the devops world . I assume those books are from Nigel when I did a bit of research there if so I'll buy them. Also thank you for suggesting apps to put into kubernetes much appreciate it

[gritty rivet]

If you like videos/sandboxed labs, KodeKloud is a subscription service with a lot of relevant content. Not a replacement for reading books and building real projects though

[worldly horizon]

Hello, I’m 14 and autistic, which makes me very persistent when it goas to learning or making stuff. But that makes it kind of hard for me, because I have tried to learn, even paid 600$ for a course to learn python, but not even that helped me learning. So I just have a kind of pain Inside me because my autism makes me too persistent it hurts me mentally not completing what I started. Right now I’m trying to learn how to code (lúa or python).

this is my last try to find someone that can teach me, idc about age or anything, if you want to try teach me, please dm me.

(Or just someone that wants to learn with me)

[blazing harbor]

You don't need to pay for courses, and you should definitely not pay over $600. Take your time with learning, and start to enjoy what you learn! Make projects and celebrate all of your wins. Stop being so hard on yourself

[muted hornet]

Want to be a SWE but before that a web developer

[smoky quest]

a web developer is a type of SWE 🤔

[smoky quest]

either way, for webdev, you could look at https://roadmap.sh

[muted hornet]

Fr? New knowledge

[smoky quest]

yeah. I never lie

[muted hornet]

Wow. This is a good resource

[pine sleet]

Titles are vague. You could argue that anyone who writes any code is a software engineer

[muted hornet]

Okay okay. I’m learning everyday. Kinda new to this field.. I am happy i stumbled into this dc from the reddit chat

[smoky quest]

no worries, it's a fun journey! Enjoy!

[delicate bane]

oh hey i have a podcast snippet about this. for the lurkers: #ot2-never-nester’s-nightmare message

[serene apex]

i NEED to make 10 usd daily any tips ? i could work im a second year compsci student

[buoyant seal]

Flipping burgers! 🍔🍔🍔
Or finding system administrator/ any key / help desk support job
Or... What else is low entry? QA role
And etc

[true harness]

internships

[hearty island]

hey guys what's up with this weird awkward space b/w my lines on laTEX

i've never seen this happen before

i have no idea why it's not working

ok i see what the problem was

invisible spaces

no that's not the problem

when i spell facilitating wrong, the line fits. when i spell it correctly, it inserts an extra line???

is it because of a chrome extension?

it's driving me crazy

[unreal turtle]

Is it recommended to add description to experiences on LinkedIn?

[deft herald]

Why not? Just copy/paste from your resume

[runic matrix]

is there anything here for hiring devs for freelance jobs?

[pine sleet]

No

[runic matrix]

ok just wondering, thanks

[wet inlet]

Hi guys, can someone tell me the difference between a Sys admin and a devops please ?

[peak halo]

I don't think they can be compared directly, because they aren't exactly occupations. sysadmin might be an occupation, but it might also be a role that someone fulfills in a team. And then devops is an approach to developing live software systems.

A sysadmin maintains computer systems. For example, on one of my projects, the "sysadmins" are the people on my team who have access to the AWS console and who create new VMs and make accounts for people on those VMs.

And then devops (which is short for development-operations) is where developers of a software product also maintain that software product as it's being used. A position for a developer in a team that uses devops might be listed as "devops engineer" to make it clear to applicants that that's how they do it, but it isn't something discretely different from "software engineer" or "developer"

[wet inlet]

I see thank you very much

I learnt English from cs go

[buoyant seal]

DevOps is a system administrator to which you added software engineering. Or Software Engineer to which you added infrastructure responsibilities.
DevOps engineer can be made with different propotions of Ops and Dev here.
Some prefer having no less than 50% or more Dev concentration in this DevOps soup. Some prefer keeping Dev% at very low values.
Essentially DevOps engineer with 100% Ops and 0% Dev is System Administrator.

The main difference in approach that DevOps engineer approaches problems with infrastructure as a code approach.
He automates problems instead of doing all stuff manually and clicking stuff in GUI
Needs scaling of application hardware resources? Automate it!
Needs monitoring of the system? Automate it! Receive important alerts only!
Needs app deployments? Automate it!
You get the idea.

[wet inlet]

Yes thank you very much

I think the school I’ll go will be with around 100% ops and very little dev

[balmy spade]

Always interesting to see all the various meanings given to the term DevOps.

[hazy wagon]

DevOps is somethin I am aiming at and I have to say it is an ocean of development automation system administration and infrastructure building to CI/CD continuos integration of code and continuous deployment . Often with big companies it takes you to a whole other level if you work with GCP(Google Cloud Platform) or AWS. They have their own command line interface where you can automate server creation deployment etc

[delicate bane]

this is tongue-in-cheek but may help set some context where devops originated from: #ot2-never-nester’s-nightmare message

[modest kraken]

Yo guys how do I write a good college essay

[peak halo]

That's a pretty general question, so you probably won't get better answers than you would get from a search engine. If your question ever becomes more specific to your individual circumstances ("how can I improve this essay given that my goals are x, y, z; <essay goes here>"), then I would come back and ask here.

[eternal tiger]

I’m going Northampton uni next year for software engineering!

Get to do placements at Barclays

[merry mauve]

I know this is the wrong channel delete if this is not allowed is there a website that helps you with code hs work I’m hard stuck on the last three assignments

[vapid jay]

how to add python to path

[gritty rivet]

#❓｜how-to-get-help

[cerulean pumice]

Hello all, I am going through a bit of an existential crisis in terms of schooling, and I want to break all this down. I’m currently pursuing a Computer Science degree as my motto has always been “I’d like to create or help create the world’s first AGI”. However the math that you need to get down within the degree of CS is extremely overwhelming, and given my father’s passing within the past 2-3 months I’m losing more and more motivation in terms of schooling entirely everyday. One thing I would love to do is to be the head of an A.I corporation or to help market a potential software to business executives or investors. So I wanted to hear someone else’s thoughts instead of my own since I’ve gotten no solid answer within the past hour on what my next step should be. Should I pursue another degree.? Should I try and get over this hurdle and keep at CS.? Whatever any of you have to say I will gladly listen. Private messages are completely fine with me or replying to this message is fine as well

I’d like to add that although my CS pursuit is wavering, I still am wanting to be within the field of A.I., That dream in particular is very very clear

[smoky quest]

If I summarize what you said:

• One of your parent died and that is impacting your morale
• Math are tougher than expected

And the question is whether or not you should change degree?
I am not clear whether or not changing a degree would make the situation any different

If you want to be a leader, you got to make people to want to follow you. And if you aren't rich, that means you need legit ways to make them follow you.
AGI isn't there today because it's tough and does include math. If it was that easy, it would already be done.

Maybe you may want to do some side projects related to AI to see how your skills apply and regain some motivation?

[cerulean pumice]

A change in degree would effectively take off the math courses needed to graduate. CS in particular requires specific math courses to be passed in order for graduation, and the math classes required will only get harder from here. I am in Calc 1, but there is also Calc 2, a class called Discrete, and also Probability/Statistics. Most degrees don’t require these classes

[smoky quest]

Your other degree would take you further from AI. Is it a trade off you are willing to make?

[cerulean pumice]

Side projects relating to A.I is a terrific idea that I didn’t think about I appreciate this suggestion so so much. Is there any projects that I should focus on if you could say.?

[smoky quest]

Start simple like an AI for tictactoe.
There are also great books like AIMA

[cerulean pumice]

Well this depends. If I pursue another degree apart from CS then that would allow me more time to focus on extracurricular activities, events, or projects. If I’m trading off of a degree less A.I focused, I could instead put more time into picking up A.I skills in the meantime, such as attending tech conventions, applying for specific internships, doing those A.I projects, etc.

[smoky quest]

That doesn't work out in practice. You will just be at the outskirts but never inside

That does not even include the funds to do it.
If you take the LLMs from today, it took millions of dollars to train the main models

That said, you can still do AI stuff for fun. But don't expect the same outcomes

And if you want to lead an AI corporation or department, that will be less likely the further away you are from it

I am not trying to be defeatist, but your competition here are the students who go for masters in CS/AI or even phd and which then get access or involved in bigger things which creates more success for them which then lead to even bigger things
There are no shortcuts

[cerulean pumice]

No no I don’t take that as defeatism at all, those are all extremely valid points and I could not be more thankful. So what do you think would be the best next step

[pine sleet]

For the record AI/ML typically has higher math requirements than CS. I've heard it be said that a Master's in it might even be necessary

[smoky quest]

I would suggest:

• Morale come and go. Eventually you will get better from the death in your family. So don't make a decision now that you would regret later
• The math in CS are doable. Work on them, find ways to better study and get help
• Get back to basic to having fun with CS. Do small AI projects and explore things and learn.

[cerulean pumice]

I have taken a screenshot of all of this and I am genuinely appreciative of the significant help. I will try and pursue opportunities for A.I understanding and advancement in between now and next semester. I have previously withdrawn from my math course so I will try and find the most effective means to spend the alleviated time

[smoky quest]

good luck!

[fathom current]

[fringe sphinx]

Also, ime, the math -after- calc was easier than calc. Discrete and stats were very different and more enjoyable types of math courses than calc.

[peak halo]

I'm very sorry to hear that father passed away.

I work in AI. If you want to contribute to AI in ways that are as groundbreaking as you have said, you will need to learn way more math than is required to get a bachelors in CS, and you would need to get a PhD in CS. I would encourage you to view learning all that math as a positive, but if you are sure that you don't want to learn very advanced math, and you do not want to pursue a PhD (which would involve a lot of time spent studying, experimenting, and writing), you should not pursue this goal.

I would also think about goal setting as it relates to overall life satisfaction. It's important to have a plan for how you're going to provide for yourself, and for how you're going to have experiences that are valuable to you. Seeking to be the head of a large AI company or making a landmark contribution to AI are lofty goals, and it would be great if you achieved them, but they might require sacrificing life satisfaction in other areas that ultimately aren't worth it.

[peak halo]

If you switch majors from CS to anything that is less mathematical than CS, it will be harder for you to get a job in AI, no matter what you do with your free time.

No amount of time spent picking up AI skills outside of school will make up for it.

[ebon root]

Hello, I am currently about to move on to the third year of Computer Science and I feel that mobile/web does not motivate me enough to learn and I dont what to lose that curiosity to learn. I've recently been interested in data science but I feel like it's a pretty complicated field to learn on your own and there's not as much coding which is what I like doing. I would love to work in science-related environments, but I don't know where to start. Any suggestions?

[true harness]

why learn on your own if you don't want to? you're in school, you can take an intro stats or data science course

[ebon root]

My university doesnt offer that, appart from the statistics class and math related courses

I was thinking about maybe taking de IBM course from coursera but I dont know if its worth it, considering I'm from argentina and it's 45 dollars per month

[peak halo]

In data science, you're producing knowledge products, not software products. The code that you write is a means to that end. It sounds like data engineering might appeal to you, though. But I'm not sure how plentiful data engineer positions are in Argentina.

[rare night]

I think u can get some free content first. Start with SQL and basic python

[ebon root]

I've seen most data engineers work more with tools like excel, power bi, etc.. is that right?

[peak halo]

that sounds more like data science than data engineering.

[ebon root]

I know the basics, I'm kinda trying to decide where to specialize

[ebon root]

I must have it wrong then

are there any roadmaps I can take a look at that you know?

[rare night]

Is there anything related to data science on your university agenda? I'm finishing computer science this year, after taking data science and artificial intelligence classes, I'm trying to get into this field

[ebon root]

mmm

not really, appart from a really out of date ai course

There is a lot of the math tho

[rare night]

yep

you can try study abou AI, its really good for datascience

[peak halo]

I'd probably say that the other way around

[crisp stream]

!cban 1137798913177436180 Troll harassing Discord employees

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied ban to @green wharf permanently.

[smoky quest]

Better to ask in another channel since this is dedicated to #career-advice

[golden bramble]

https://discord.com/channels/267624335836053506/1165885713292726323

[smoky quest]

How does it relate to #career-advice ?

[golden bramble]

Oh, I just saw that!
Oops.

[noble dawn]

Should i fully pause learning & studying when looking for jobs or should i do the both task simultaneously

I figured out building projects , practice and studying is time consuming and not letting me have time to apply to Ml positions

[finite wadi]

ppl, i need some idea help regarding python projects which help common people...its a project for ma internal marks in ma school

[gritty rivet]

You need to decide for yourself where your time is better spent. It's reasonable to put technical learning partly or completely on hold for a time.if you feel you need that time for job applications and you have enough of a portfolio to do so

[gritty rivet]

!kindling

[inner wren]

Kindling Projects

The Kindling projects page on Ned Batchelder's website contains a list of projects and ideas programmers can tackle to build their skills and knowledge.

[floral rain]

Hi peeps. I'm a newbie taking 100days of code. python is my first language and I've seen so many programmers on YouTube saying I won't be able to land a job with this and that I should first study html, css, and JS. any thought about that?

[limpid marten]

Go for py if u are a newbie

easy and less lines of code comparing to others..

[floral rain]

yeah, but will this open job opportunities for me? knowing only one language

[white relic]

not really

but not really because of the language but because doing an online course doesn't really register in a résumé

I don't know HTML and I do fine. But I have a degree and experience in a field where HTML is completely irrelevant

[worthy palm]

Would python be the way to go if i want to land a remote job that i can do while living overseas

[buoyant seal]

you can land a job even with single language but

• you need also knowing core software engineering subjects
  • like that stuff #web-development message
• it will be easier to land a job if u have CS degree.
  • people with CS degree just have 4 years or more of coding practice, they can solve up to medium leetcoding tasks without problems in average. They have 4 years to break their mind and accept coding philosophies, getting used to it
  • people with just online courses do not have credintability or sufficient practice to be able to code usually

[floral rain]

meaning It's about the degree?

[white relic]

International remote jobs that hire inexperienced people are extremely rare (excluding contract work)

[buoyant seal]

for 60% it is about just more years of practice (and knowing fundamentals). For 40% it is about just degree that helps easier getting first jobs/internships and entering work force and getting industry level practice after graduation

[worthy palm]

Well that eliminates learning coding while living overseas. Time to find something else to learn

[white relic]

I guess. You can still learn coding and get a job eventually. But if you are looking for a job right now? Yeah

[worthy palm]

Im getting up there in age so i feel like it wont be worth the time and effort. Being remote only kills alot of potential jobs. Funny thing is id get swooped up at 100k starting if i ever moved back to the US

[white relic]

I mean, you would still need experience

[worthy palm]

I mean with my old career experience in the field i used to work in

[gritty rivet]

I use Python more or less exclusively in my job building API integrations. You might want to look at the Python and backend roadmaps on roadmap.sh... Even that goes beyond what I really know.

I do agree with what Darkwind said though. Even if you don't learn another programming language in depth, it's the whole package of knowledge/credentials/experience you bring that determines your employment prospects

One last point... Start studying the job market in your local area. Figure out what roles are the best fit for you to target and let that guide your learning strategy

[hidden bloom]

must i specify that something is volunteering in my cv? ex: it support vs it support volunteer

or is it better to leave it 'ambigious' is it dishonest to do so as well?... cus then they'd be assuming everything else is paid right.

[clever lagoon]

I don't think a recruter will care tbh

[hidden bloom]

wym? im asking as i'm a university student so

[clever lagoon]

my experience is recruters spend very little time reading CV. They look for specific keywords and if you have them you go to the next stage. Whatever the job was paid or not, doesn't seem relevant to me. I don't think it will change if you go to the next stage or not.

[hidden bloom]

can i include my high school under education in my cv as well.. i'm only a year into college so..

like my gpa and that - it also signifies that im international? which i think is important to know..

[fringe sphinx]

I generally don't care about high school, speaking as a US hiring manager. But, it doesn't hurt to list, esp if grades are really good.

[hidden bloom]

im in england but i went to highschool in US.. idk

[fringe sphinx]

I do look at HS (or phone number, or address, etc) to decide if the candidate is local. I prefer local candidates, because I'm more likely to be able to hire them post-college.

[hidden bloom]

so i should remove highschool to prevent discrimination - they wouldn't be able to tell im international if i remove that?...

[clever lagoon]

tbh it depends how much experience you have. If your CV is half empty, you can add it. Otherwise don't bother. But it will be a great way to start a covnersation during the interview process

[hidden bloom]

it's not half empty its full but ive condensed it to one page used jake overleaf template

[fringe sphinx]

I can't speak for UK, but there are plenty of UK people here, so let's see what they think!

[hidden bloom]

do u have their @'s? pls i'd love to msg them

[clever lagoon]

that's would be suspicious to me

[fringe sphinx]

Nah, it's somewhat rude to @ people (esp during the workday!)

[clever lagoon]

one year in college, so you're probably not even a junior and you have more than a page of CV ? That's weird.

[fringe sphinx]

If nobody answers, maybe ask again towards end of day?

[hidden bloom]

I want to get hired in the uk... so idek. i'm also asking cus i don't go to a top university and i had a pretty competitive gpa in high school

[hidden bloom]

have a lot of flexible part time work that fits in with studies / 2 volunteering positions

[fringe sphinx]

Also: consider looking for adjacent jobs, like QA and helpdesk/support. It is good experience to work in tech, even if not directly as a SWE intern.

[hidden bloom]

yeah i deffo am looking at that! I understand i'm deffo below junior level i'm just looking to land some internship / placement stuff i'm fine with anything tech related. however I'm wondering still abt the highschool bit but we will see

[hidden bloom]

i have a local phone number within the country and i didn't include my address in the cv? my university has it's location so it's obvious where i'm based.. which is within the country

[white relic]

people often go to university in a place where they don't plan to live longterm

when you graduate, there's nothing left for you at the university. If you went to high school nearby, you probably have at least some family and a place to stay and know your way around town.

[hidden bloom]

im going to just not list my highschool then lol. i do plan on settling down in england longterm i have family here but i can't rly put that in the cv lol.

[white relic]

It's unlikely to make a big difference

[noble dawn]

Can i send my resume for review so that you can further guide me on the choice to make

[harsh river]

just send the resume here directly, and people will weigh in

[fringe sphinx]

But, fyi, it's good to mention at the interview that you have ties to whereever you are interviewing (for internships). "Oh, I'm planning on staying in <whatever city> post-graduation. I have family here." or something like that.

[true harness]

is it? I've got enough projects to make like 3 full pages and I'm barely a second year student

[clever lagoon]

because you're a god spooky

[true harness]

even if I only included school projects I'd have at least 2. cutting down content is fairly normal

[clever lagoon]

maybe that guy is a god too, tbh, but usually that's not the norm, at very least not in my experience

[clever lagoon]

tbh experience must vary vastly from a person to another

what I can tell you is that I've seen more often then not some people just fresh out of school that can't even use a debugger

[true harness]

¯_(ツ)_/¯ shouldn't hire them then

[clever lagoon]

sure what I mean is

if I base my jugement on my experience with students and young people just out of school, it's unlikely that a whole page of experiences is justified

[woven gazelle]

The game😭

[clever lagoon]

ofc I might be wrong and also maybe that person is really really good at what he's doing

but to me that's clearly not the norm, and -on average- if you have a lot of stuff on your CV with 0 experience, yo umight want to ask yourself if everything is relevant

[true harness]

it's probably not a full page of experience. I've got maybe 35% xp, the rest is projects, skills, education

but for many students looking for their first internship, they'll have no experience at all

[hazy wagon]

How about someone that is educating himself without any institute or school? How would you get projects to prove your worth somehow? I just started a month ago and sometimes i feel lost and don't know from where to start or continue? Any suggestions?

[brave swallow]

Make a portfolio

The hardest part about not getting a degree in computer related courses is proving you're as worthy as people who graduated with bachelor's degree in computer science or whatever

Since they don't have any idea how much you know about programming you need to show it on your portfolio and interview

[hazy wagon]

Yeah I get that. The hard part would be to learn enough alone and with courses. But hardest will be to find worthy projects . How do I find them ? Yes I can probably make django or flask websites in future , I have the servers and the setup I can make easily ,but still..

[brave swallow]

If you feel lost and don't know where to start you can set a goal timeline where you monitor your progress while having idea what to learn next. This timeline should generally contain projects you can put on your portfolio

Having a timeline keeps you on track which does alot of help

Start by deciding what you really want to build and try to learn concepts you need to reach that goal. After achieving that move to your next project goal

[true harness]

the best projects are things that you're actually interested in and also demonstrate skills that employers look for

[hazy wagon]

I do have that in mind actually. I am currently going through the basics of CS50 online course for python from last year. TO get some basic understanding. Then I have a few courses prepared for next . In general my goal is automation first and infrastructure as a code later on. Mainly I'd like to automate tasks ,code deployment server creation backups and all that with python instead of bash

I also want to be able to build apps , websites , API's etc 🙂

[drifting robin]

you deleted my msg, damnit, imma find solution myself ig

[near ocean]

There are three offtopic channels and #python-discussion to ask in

[safe geyser]

What is the best material for learning Python?

Boysss and Girlsss

braaas and sistass

[white relic]

!resources This channel is for career discussion, try #python-discussion for general Python related questions in the future

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

[safe geyser]

nojs!

[smoky quest]

right, it's neigher about javascript

[silver raft]

Hi, is there anyone from the Czech Republic who got a job as an IT junior ? If yes, write me in DM.

[fringe sphinx]

"sometimes i feel lost and don't know from where to start or continue": It's very normal to feel lost/inadequate/overwelmed in the first few months. It takes time... more time than anything else you've probably tried... to get good at programming. Start with a basic tutorial, do some simple projects, then keep challenging yourself by doing something a little harder than last time. Ask for suggestions and ideas in #python-discussion : there's a lot of people at varying stages of learning there.

[hazy wagon]

Thank you!!

[fringe sphinx]

Also, just a tip: don't worry about whether you're learning the "right stuff": as long as you're learning something new, you're doing the right thing. There's no perfect roadmap.

[vapid jay]

Hey, I have done 4 projects in python(pretty weak project that includes:- weather api, snake game, to-do list and an AI assistant)
And I have done 45 days of course in python and Ml from solitary Infosys.

Is that enough to grab an internship?
My background is not cs, I am a ME student 😭

Also, I am in 5th sem rn

[peak halo]

ME is mechanical engineering, right?

[vapid jay]

Yeah

[peak halo]

I'd say it's worth applying. (Whereas if you were in a non-STEM degree, I would say applying is a waste of time.) Why are you looking for a CS internship if you're in ME? Alternatively, why are you in ME if you're interested in CS?

[deft herald]

May i ask why you're studying ME but want an internship with programming?

oh yeah, Mr. Greek letters up there asked the same thing

[vapid jay]

Why I am in ME if I am interested in CS? Long story dude :(
I wanna switch my field.
And I am not from a non-STEAM background completely, I did my highschool in science with IT as an optional subject.
But in ug, I choose ME, again that's a long story. The past is past and I can't do anything now :)
Any suggestions :)
My goal is to get a decent job in AI

[deft herald]

It's never too late to switch. Are you the one we've talked to about this already?

[vapid jay]

No I am new

[deft herald]

oh

[peak halo]

ME is part of STEM (the E is engineering), before you even account for what you did in high school.

If you want to work in AI, you will probably need to get a masters in CS once you finish your undergrad in ME. You'd probably need to do that anyway, even if you get a CS as your bachelors.

[deft herald]

I would highly suggest switching majors if ME is not what you want to do. IME the first 2 years of all engineering programs are pretty much the same anyways, so you might as well switch now

[peak halo]

in my experience getting a bachelors in CS, you could take quite a few CS-specific courses starting from the second semester. But in either case, if you know you're on the wrong path, the best thing you can do is course correct as soon as possible.

[vapid jay]

I can't switch it too late, I had a chance in my 4th sem but mf's gifted me a back :)
So yeah...

[peak estuary]

Hi guys, I am a college student with some time on his hands so I decided I should learn a programming language just for the sake of it
Is python fine for this or would you recommend another language (I know its a weird question in this server)

[deft herald]

but mf's gifted me a back 🙂
What now?

[peak halo]

unless you have a more specific goal than that, we're going to tell you to learn Python.

[peak estuary]

I do not, thank you

[peak halo]

that aside, even as a non-programmer, learning the basics of Python can be very useful for automating cumbersome tasks. I also often use a python console to do math

[vapid jay]

I am thinking of doing my master's in AI in Germany from a decent university but quite worried like what if the interviewer asked the same question "why did you even choose ME in the first place".
Ofc, not gonna tell him my tragic story 😭.
Anyways that's a different thing.
I want to boost my skills, did 4 projects, will do 2 more after the end of my sem exams. What else am I supposed to do after that.
I need to get an internship in my 6th sem at any cost, ded serious bro 😥
That would do a lot for my resume. Once I will get one it would be quite easy to get another one.

[vapid jay]

Have to pass it :/

[peak halo]

you can just tell them that your interests changed. that is normal.

[vapid jay]

Hey, i got ramp OA and didn't expect it to be industry coding framework. how do i study for that stuff? (i botched it)

[deft herald]

I meant "what did that string of letters you typed mean?"

[vapid jay]

Sry I didn't get u. What string of letters u talkin abt?

[deft herald]

All i meant was what did you mean by this?

but mf's gifted me a back
You'll have to forgive me for being old

[peak halo]

I didn't understand that part, either. but maybe I'm old now, too.

[vapid jay]

Oh apologies
I meant that I got a back(reappear/failed) in one of my subjects in the 4th semester. So technically, I cannot change my maj unless I have 0 backs in my previous semester.

[deft herald]

oh seriously? That seems...crazy

[vapid jay]

Yeah that is.
I mean the sub that I failed has nothing to do with cs, so why are they considering that subject?

[true harness]

seems kinda weird. i feel like failing a course would be one of the main motivators for wanting to change majors

[peak estuary]

Thats good news

[vapid jay]

Btw is there any other project or like anything that I can do to get an internship?

[white relic]

in the school's interest too... unless they would prefer you just drop out I guess

[true harness]

well, i guess they're keeping you for longer, so they're getting more tuition 😔

[white relic]

wonder what % of students would continue re-taking failed classes they hate just so they can switch majors later

as opposed to just transferring or dropping out entirely

[gritty rivet]

Yes. Figure out what sort of internships you want and what skills they would be looking for. Then find projects that will allow you to demonstrate those skills

[final moon]

Sup guys?

[fringe sphinx]

I started off as a EE. Hated it, switched CS. Very common.

[deft herald]

https://tenor.com/view/waddup-snoop-dogg-cameo-whats-up-sup-gif-18006770

[restive belfry]

Any SaaS idea?

[white relic]

this channel is for career discussion

[modern ore]

damn why are regular tech companies doing IQ tests on OA 💀 wtf

its not even one, its like multiple, and they hide the IQ tests as a "game" 😭

[steel kindle]

to test your QR abilities, same thing any other OA is for tbh

[modern ore]

Qr?

[steel kindle]

quantitative reasoning

[modern ore]

How is memorization, reaction time, and mental math same as leetcode OAs?

[steel kindle]

I mean what was the game? All of the games I have played were pretty similar. Memorization, pattern recognition, noticing regressions, etc

[modern ore]

Pretty much what I said, throwing you in a random game you’ve never played before where they may ask mental math, memorization, and noticing same pattern in different form like they do in iq test lol

[fringe sphinx]

puzzle interviews are pretty common, albeit highly dubious.

[vapid jay]

can anyone help me with a error

[fringe sphinx]

It's the same principle as DSA/leetcode type questions: try to find "smart" people who you can train

[fringe sphinx]

Try #python-discussion , this is career related stuff.

[modern ore]

The thing about dsa problems, is that you can practice for it and you are required to take a course for it

And if you’re from a good school, they make you solve harder than leetcode questions like at mit and Stanford

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, agree, I'm not a big fan.

[modest kraken]

What do you think is a niche but really useful skill/tool to know that most SWEs don’t have?

[fringe sphinx]

nowadays? I think most new SWEs have weak linux/bash skills

[true harness]

you can train your memory and the other stuff for these types of tests too

[modest kraken]

To what point? Lol

I was thinking more of a language or way of thought

[steel kindle]

I feel like that’s most of what it is

[true harness]

yes, but it's a bit dubious. how much do these really relate to software dev?

[fringe sphinx]

I am dubious myself. Most of SWE (imo) is not puzzle solving or complex deep thinking. It's communication and collab.

[steel kindle]

I mean it’s just to cut people out cheaply, interviews are expensive to conduct

[buoyant seal]

Unit testing at high percentage coverage level (above 90%) (see book unit testing best practices by Khorikov, and TDD by Kent Beck to find out more)

And code becomes at least 5 times better with high coverage unit tests.

At the same it is regretfully how many... Devs do not get it

[steel kindle]

I also feel like knowing when not to unit test is useful

[true harness]

measuring coverage is also a bit dubious. 90% is kind of arbitrary, and it doesn't really measure how good the tests are. instead of saying 90%, you could probably just say "knowing how to unit test", though it is a bit more vague

[steel kindle]

We have 100% coverage in my code base, it’s kind of ridiculous

[buoyant seal]

😛 don't test stuff that is solvable by having static typing.

[steel kindle]

Or very close to, that’s the objective

[steel kindle]

Fair, we did not have static typing until very recently and are just beginning to transition to it

[buoyant seal]

I simplified on purpose. Just having more than 90% coverage will be already solid start for a lot of written garbage code 😄

[true harness]

but why not just say "learn to unit test" then?

[steel kindle]

All I’ve been doing is converting unit tests to make sure they’ll work with static typing

[buoyant seal]

Not a clear enough simple goal. It will take speaking about code architecture and recommending far more books in order to truly learn unit testing.

For baby first steps and clear goal to get, 90% coverage is good enough first goal

[steel kindle]

Aren’t UTs covered in school anyways?

[vague ledge]

Hello human

[elder mica]

Not that they need them so much considering it’s all yaml and Kubernetes now. I mean sure they still need bash but not as much as before. Knowing Linux is too broad anyways and less relevant. It’s a fairly well documented area. For most things you can Google them and find the answer and for complicated things most people don’t touch them.

[crisp stream]

Googling for relevant answers and being able to understand and apply them is also a skill that seems to be lacking a bit IME.

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, and Imm generally talking not just about Bash but understanding things like the file system, /dev and /kernel, scheduling, systemd, process mgmt, etc

[buoyant seal]

Reading documentation 😊

[lime bay]

I recently got a take home assignment and submitted it after doing it.
After submitting it I discovered a minor issue. Should I email the hiring manager and recruiter and tell them I want to resubmit or leave it?

[crisp stream]

if it's a minor issue, I'd say, leave it

[lime bay]

I added some logs to the deployed app and the issue made some of the unit tests they run failed. At least 10. I'm worried this would affect me. But it also shows that I was not serious before submitting. Because I should have seen this

[crisp stream]

on the bright side, this is a good learning experience to do a test run before submitting 🥴

[lime bay]

True. I did write tests and test but they didn't cover all edge cases

Wish I could go back in time.

[gritty rivet]

Interviews and technical assessments are always a learning experience and get easier with practice. They may still want you but it doesn't matter now, look ahead not back

[lime bay]

Thanks for that. I've decided not to send them a message. I also think it sends a bad signal

[gritty rivet]

It's not necessarily a bad thing to follow up and provide a better solution if you can do so, but it's not something I'd put a lot of time into. I've seen it happen where someone fails to pass a technical assessment, follows up with a correct solution, and is given a chance to proceed. I would guess that's not very common though

[deft herald]

For what it's worth, I actually did this after the interview for my current job - I hung up the phone and was so upset i brainfarted. I eventually came up with a solution then immediately sent an email back to the interviewer. My boss has since told me that if I didn't do that, I wouldn't have gotten the job

[vapid jay]

I started coding in uni i just finished my first semester and started the second one and i like coding and i wanna work or get an internship asap ( I know learning will take some time not in a rush ) i started python and i am thinking of C# too (maybe for game development in the future ?) point is i wanna know what i should learn and courses to take online to be able to work remotely or anything , cuz i really don't know what they ask for or what and where i should learn

So if anyone can advice me where to start or what to do that will be helpful..... (just started learning python from a course called 100 days projects bootcamp from udemy )

[pine sleet]

!resources Check this out for a bunch of great resources on learning Python

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

[pine sleet]

Internships are generally available to rising juniors and seniors but it's not unheard of for freshmen and sohmores to have some as well. Since by definition internships don't expect you to have as much experience as a full time employee, they're more so looking for your willingness to learn, how fast you pick up new stuff, how good of a culture fit you are, that sort of thing.
It would help to work on your resume, go to career fairs at your university, and network there

[gritty rivet]

That's good. While you do that, start looking for specific internytiu think you might apply for, because this will help you decide what skills and projects you want to focus on

For example... Where I work, we've had interns do front end stuff in Vue.js. But I don't know if that means lots of other companies do the same, nor do I know if that's something you personally are interested in doing.

So explore your interests and explore what internships are available, and work towards converging a match

[vapid jay]

You are right Thank you for the advice

[vapid jay]

Hmm I don't actually know what front and end stuff in Vue.js means tbh but yeah got ur point , when i asked some people they said this course will not be enough to get a job , that's obv yeah i get it , but i really wanna start coding making money from it and get experience from now , i don't wanna wait until i graduate that's a lot of time and waste of time too

[vapid jay]

I am trying my best to learn the stuff i need and i am still learning what i need and everything , i watched a lot of videos- and every one of them gives u a different answer that honestly doesn't make sense , for an example.. you can learn coding in 2 months and get a job etc. so honestly i find them useless and not a good source of information so i came here to ask people who actually work and know what they talk about

[pine sleet]

You're never going to learn everything. Different companies use different languages, tools, frameworks, and you're not going to be able to know all of it and companies know that. Learn the concepts, and learn how to learn. You would be surprised how many core ideas languages and frameworks share.

Take JS, for instance. It's a common joke that there's a new framework every week. I've used a handful of them and you start realizing the patterns that are re-used across the frameworks. Know that, and it becomes incredibly easy to pick up a new one.

Don't get hung up on learning languages, frameworks, tools, stuff like that. Kinda why a CS degree is so important these days as they don't get too much into stuff like that

[vapid jay]

aha got it , true not every company use the same things and yeah i am currently studying Data science & Artificial Intelligence In university i am first year student I don't know if i mentioned that or no

[pine sleet]

I'm a first year student too, though first semester unlike you

[vapid jay]

I still have questions but i really have to go now sadly.. I will come back and ask if you don't mind..

[pine sleet]

Yeah of course. Someone's always around in this channel

[vapid jay]

Ohh really ? so u work now or internship orr ?

[pine sleet]

None lined up unfortunately. I'm planning on getting one as a rising junior

[vapid jay]

Ohhh because u seem knowledgeable that's why i asked

[pine sleet]

no i just hang out in this channel a lot

[still escarp]

hey im studying cs and want do work as a working student similar to an internship. Right now im writing my portfolio from projects in the past and merging them. My question would be how important is my portfolio and should i do one big project or multiple smaller ones?

[pine sleet]

By "portfolio" do you just mean your resume?

[still escarp]

Ye projects i did in the past

[pine sleet]

If you mean resume I think it would probably be better to put down one or two larger or more ambitious projects you spent a lot of time on rather than a dozen small random projects you did for a couple days and never touched after

[still escarp]

My projects was never that big unfortunately .8

[copper otter]

yoo guys

[deft herald]

yoooo

[smoky quest]

prioritize quality over quantity.
Think about it from the perspective of the reviewer:

• You get thousands of applicants
• Every applicant will have a tictactoe. Why would you pick a specific tictactoe?

And having variations of small projects won't make you stand out, it will be about the same skills

[modern ore]

another IQ test in another swe intern oa 😹

[deft herald]

you gotta be kidding

[modern ore]

Nah it’s legit mental math with huge time constraint and literally pattern matching like in the iq tests, and fixing grammar and spelling mistakes under time constraint

[deft herald]

Still...eesh

I thought that's what transcripts are for

[steel kindle]

brutal. I get why companies do it, but it's frustrating.

[modern ore]

cause you can cheat on leetcode oas? 😹

[steel kindle]

I mean they kind of serve the same purpose as an OA, it’s just another filter

[modern ore]

so iq test to filter out candidates 🤔

[steel kindle]

yes

[near ocean]

You can practice IQ tests, whats the point

[steel kindle]

you can practice OAs. You can practice pretty much anything.

[near ocean]

So why do companies do these things, i dont understand

Why switch from one practiced thing to another

[steel kindle]

They do both. It filters out candidates. interveiws are expensive...

[fringe sphinx]

It also ebbs and flows, depending on number of applicants and the mood of the industry. DSA has been really emphasized over the past few years, far more than it was even 5 years ago

[modern ore]

I get that, its for filtering out candidates, but using IQ though? not even knowing basic prgoramming?

[true harness]

I think the argument is, you can teach programming, but not the other way around

[steel kindle]

They use both, no?

[gritty rivet]

I've never encountered anything like a general IQ test in any employment screening and find it surprising that this is still so common. Seems pretty weak from a scientific perspective at least according to this: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4557354/

Above all else it would give me pause regarding whether I want to work at such a place.

[fringe sphinx]

I haven't seen a general IQ test, but I have seen puzzles as a pre-screen / OA-equivalent, which I think serves the same purpose.

[delicate bane]

i have a podcast snippet relevant to careers

current podcast interviewing an eng manager:

Even if we're hiring for a senior role, and we can see that they're not on a senior-level technically but they have great soft skills — they're great communicators, etc. — then we would still hire them at that senior-level.

Because it's easy to teach technical skills in my opinion; it's not so easy to teach soft skills.

the caveat here is their company is a consulting company so theres that.

[smoky quest]

it's like a vector distance: not everyone will match 100% on all the dimensions.
So it becomes about what points are strength, what points are weaknesses and what is coachable (and willing/can coach) vs what isn't coachable.

[delicate bane]

good analogy. agree with the coachability aspect.

[fringe sphinx]

Reminds me of the old basketball coaching saying: "You can't teach height".

[opal elm]

Hey I am looking for help with my resume if anyone can give any input I would greatly appreciate it. So I am currently in my 3rd year of college and I recently changed my major to Data Science. I haven’t had any tech jobs yet so I’m thinking of applying for internships/help desk jobs. Should I include my retail or warehouse work experience in my resume? How do I present a resume with little formal IT experience?

[peak halo]

I would only include places that you worked as a student, and I would just list the company, your position, and the start/end dates. just so that they know that you're a working student

that is, I wouldn't list any details or job responsibilities, unless they're somehow relevant to the jobs you're applying to. which I'd expect they are not.

[true harness]

i just included the most recent, with only 1 bullet saying what i did. the rest was projects and more relevant stuff

[peak halo]

that said, it's hard to have a full-page resume as an undergrad with no industry experience. it might help to list what courses you've taken.

(when I was job hunting, I did have a full-page resume, but in retrospect I think a lot of it was uninformative.)

(that is to say, filler/bullshit)

[true harness]

a lot of my projects were (still are 😩) quite shit, tbh. but i think it was better than having 2+ inches of blank space

[gaunt mason]

Anyone needs help with a python project? For free, I mean.

[opal elm]

Yeah i need ideas and help with python project and would beginner level python be enough to do one?

[opal elm]

What if i was working and i wasnt going to school? Do I just pretend like i was still taking classes while working?

[peak halo]

Don't lie no matter what

Anyway, I don't think employers will want you to account for time spent before you started pursuing your first bachelor's

[steel kindle]

I mean if you took classes before and after yeah, they could overlap without the classes and work overlapping

Like if you worked summers and went to school both semesters you could put that on your resume

[opal elm]

Can networking with other professionals or going to any tech related events or meetups perhaps worth for something to put on resume maybe?

might develop some softskills i guess idk?

[pine sleet]

Probably not unless you did something significant there like gave a talk

[gray shuttle]

Is discussion of machine learning allowed here

[pine sleet]

Not in this channel, unless it relates to your career

[gray shuttle]

What channel would I discuss it?

[pine sleet]

#data-science-and-ml if you've got questions about it or want to talk about it

[gray shuttle]

thanks

[spare edge]

are game projects good for resume? applying for entry level swe

[true harness]

sure

[spark stump]

But does lal system i. Shi ;v

{vlog all

[umbral haven]

is pythonm really worth learning in terms of jobs or is it being overhyped?

I have been coding in python for 2 years and Idk if i should continue or learn a systems language like rust/c++ or learn javascript

[umbral haven]

have you completed a degree yet? I feel like unless you are going into game development they want to see something relevent to what you are applying to. otherwise, probably something that from a developer standpoint looks really hard

[smoky quest]

python is wildly popular

[smoky quest]

I would suggest to look at job ads and what they require.

Note also that a CS degree will be the path of least resistance and with the most opportunities and compensation

[long solar]

I really want a job where I use python so I half-ass my java homework so that I can have more time to work on my python project, is this bad?

[icy ridge]

Hello, I am new, myself atharv shinde, I am freelance tutor, teaching Python, java, web development..

Nice to meet you all

[elder mica]

That’s way too much knowledge, it’s specific and transient.

[gaunt mason]

Let's talk in private. Sent you a dm.

[shy coral]

With what can I create a website with python?

[lilac quail]

You answered your question!

[vapid jay]

Django or flask I think, anyway, not the right chat

[little sorrel]

Can I use css with python to make website and it's functionality

[opal arrow]

hey yall

im a student and im very interested in coding. like not for money or anything but computer hardware and software is my legit passion. a lot of people say cs is a dying field and its highly comptetive. please advice me on what to do. what yall suggest me take up for higher education

[lapis wind]

I don't think I've seen anyone say CS is a dying field?

Competitive maybe, junior position depending on your location can definitely be difficult to get your foot in the door

But it's definitely not a field that is going away

[near ocean]

Competitive and dying sound like they dont go together

[opal arrow]

ive seen people say both so

i am very confused at the moment

pls help me yalls

[vapid jay]

Yes it is a competitive and hard field but with your interest and love to this field it makes less matter to what difficulties you face. Like you may face difficulties in recursion as a beginner than when you do recursion problem like Tower of Hanoi, you make get difficulties again, but still the love towards this things will make it easier as you give your effort and solve each problem.

[gritty rivet]

Again, who says it's dying?

In any case, it's common for people to change careers multiple times these days. Learn as much as you can in school, hopefully get good internship experience, and you'll be fine regardless of what happens to the job market.

[white relic]

late halloween costume idea: the spectre of chatgpt, come to take everyone's jobs

[true harness]

D:

[white relic]

(when wearing it, you have to say nothing offensive, verbosely agree with everyone, and occasionally contradict yourself)

[opal arrow]

thanks so much people. i think i'll stick to my passion and continue trying for a cs degree

[fringe sphinx]

Also consider the source of the negative comments; are they in the industry? How much experience do they have? Are they just youtubers with hot-takes? etc.

[tacit beacon]

be honest with me

How hard is it to "switch" your knowledge from R to Python? At our Data science masters we have a lot of R and a lot less Python, if you asked me to give you a ratio it would be 3:1, R to python respectively. Naturally I'm quite worried as I know python is dominant in the field

[peak halo]

I don't know R, but I think if you do a python tutorial and a pandas tutorial, then after that you will be able to get used to Python rather quickly.

also, you're probably going to feel annoyed that Python's data science stack is so decentralized as compared to R. Sorry about that in advance.

[tacit beacon]

im such a beginner right now that I have no idea what you said in here, care to elaborate?

[peak halo]

R was designed to be a data science language, whereas Python was not. And it shows.

[tacit beacon]

so why is Python preferred at data science/IT jobs

[peak halo]

the gradual learning curve and breadth of the ecosystem

[tacit beacon]

as in, python is easier?

[white relic]

I'm not in data science, but that would be pretty low on my list of things to worry about. You'll learn to get stuff done in Python or whatever language your employer uses. Most of what you learn about your career will happen on the job.

[peak halo]

it has a gradual learning curve. it's ultimately a very complex language.

[fringe sphinx]

Perhaps it's more a breadth vs depth thing. Python is more broadly usable, so SWEs can do DS stuff and DScientists can do SWE stuff. Similar to how JS backends (node.js) became popular, because they allow webdevs to do full-stack work all in JS.

[tacit beacon]

but a lot of entry/junior jobs or even internships say "knowledge of python/sql/r/sas" - what do they mean by knowledge?

Like, where's the point that I can say "alright, I know python" because I struggle with, let's say job confidence as in if I'm capable enough to apply for the job

[peak halo]

there isn't a great answer to that, because there isn't an exact point at which you "know" a language. I probably wouldn't say that I "know" SQL because even though I know how it's used at a high level, I can't write non-trivial queries without an SQL reference.

this is the career discussion channel. Is this relevant?

[simple ingot]

oh wait wrong channel?

what channel would i put this in, im kinda new here and i very rarely chat here

[peak halo]

see #❓｜how-to-get-help

[dusk vale]

It also has so many modules that almost no other programming language has. I could be a part of the ecosystem advantage you mentioned.

[opal arrow]

nahh i can see myself put something like this on my resume 😭 . yalls have any tips on what language i should try and learn for better opportunities at jobs? currently i know basic html, basic python and basic sql. basically i know just what they teach in 11th and 12th grades (indian education system)

[white relic]

What they're looking for will depend on the job. A typical interview (not necessarily a good interview, but one you might expect to encounter) might ask you some basic questions to find out if you know Python "why does this code not work?"/"what does this code output?"/etc. and follow it up with some more theoretical questions about data structures and algorithms possibly using an online evaluation platform like Leetcode.

It's completely normal that you don't know whether your knowledge of Python is "enough" before the interview. That's what the interview is for. You don't only interview for jobs that you know you're qualified for, you interview for them to find out if you're qualified.

[tacit beacon]

thanks that was quite insightful although the small problem here is that some companies will ban you for a year if you fail an interview with them

[white relic]

that is a bit strange, would they ban you from applying to a software engineering position because you previously applied to a data science opening and weren't selected?

But it seems like it would only matter if there's a shortage of employers which definitely is not the case in the US so I'm unfamiliar with that problem

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, that does seem odd. I know Amazon has a 12 month cool-off, but I think that applies to same positions only.

But that only applies if you actually enter the interview loop. If you're screened out, doesn't count.

[white relic]

The Indian education system and economy are unfamiliar to most Westerners, including me, so we aren't likely to know what would give you the most bang for your buck. General advice is to look at job openings in your area and see what skills they are hiring for, then work on building those.

[opal arrow]

im studying in an indian education system but i am not an indian. I'm in the middle east, studying in a school based on the indian education system.

What are the chances that i could apply for a job in US and do a work from home arrangement (if thats a thing)? will the pay be decent? or do you suggest applying for a job locally

[white relic]

Since you describe your skills as "basic" there's certainly some merit to trying to deepen your knowledge of stuff you already know

[white relic]

international remote-only entry-level jobs are not really a thing

[opal arrow]

apologies for bothering you once more, but any suggestions on how to build my career?

[white relic]

Really it depends on what kind of career you want to have 🤷‍♂️

[peak halo]

what's your "resume"?

that is to say, what would you put on one if you had one (and it might be that you do)

[eager jungle]

How do I measure my level of expertise in python?

Or measure any programming skill or area in particular?

[white relic]

For what purpose? Do you have to evaluate yourself on a form or something?

Or is it more for your own interest

[eager jungle]

It's for my own interest, and also answer people for job, or casual purpose

[white relic]

you could count how many consecutive pages of Fluent Python you can read without encountering something new

(kinda joking)

Years of experience is the usual metric for job purposes. As a metric it has several problems but it's something

[eager jungle]

Uh, but you see, even in this server, 16 year olds have higher skill than me. So i would like to measure it properly 🤔

By years, I have 4 years of experience with python

[fringe sphinx]

When learning a language, I'd do something similar by reading the language specification: perhaps first test is whether you understand (and can explain) everything in https://docs.python.org/3/reference/index.html

[white relic]

I feel that tbh. 13+ years with this language and I still learn stuff from bright 16 year olds. You have to be humble about it.

[eager jungle]

I'm not complaining lol, I'm just wondering about my skill

[opal arrow]

as i mentioned earlier, im still studying. if i were to construct a resume at present, it would probably have basic py, html and sql and intermediate computer hardware knowledge on there

[peak halo]

so you're currently a university student? studying what?

[eager jungle]

I can understand 90-95% of the things in page without using any references. If I am allowed to use references, I can say 100%

[deft herald]

4 years but how many hours?

And yeah i'm in trentj's boat too. I still learn things about the language and i've been using it for 12ish years.
idfk how async works still...

[white relic]

There's not really a great way to measure skill unfortunately

[eager jungle]

Not a great way, but a way which would be somewhat effective would be also fine

[deft herald]

Also, there's a difference between being an expert at Python and being an expert at programming. An expert in programming will know what they need to do and a new language won't stop them from getting something done (though it may slow them down)

[eager jungle]

I didn't learn python because I wanted to master it 😅, i just learnt new concepts in it solve the problems i face, or accomplish some intrests

[opal arrow]

im in grade 12. i only started with python last year

[white relic]

The only reliable measurement of whether you're capable of making some complex system in software (or any kind of engineering) is that you've done something similar before and it worked

[peak halo]

then focus on getting into a CS degree program

[opal arrow]

alright thanks. do you have any advice for me? im really clueless and lost

[peak halo]

have you started applying? focus on doing well in school overall, and in math especially. what math are you taking?

[opal arrow]

the one with trigonometry and all that? im not specializing just yet, as i study in an indian education system as priorly mentioned.

[eager jungle]

I'm from India, and just entered 2nd year of college. Complete 12th math textbook can teach most of all the concepts.

[edgy shard]

Guys whats the scope of python-django as compared to other backend stacks? Is it worth to give a try?

[vapid jay]

Everything is worthful to try, but check ones if you have limited time

[edgy shard]

You should ask thsi question in #cybersecurity

[vapid jay]

Oh u r right.

[edgy shard]

but as per my knowledge starting with networking and linux would be great

[white relic]

what do you mean "scope"? What would make it worth it to you?

[vapid jay]

Yeah, I have learn a bit of kali linux

[edgy shard]

and a very good understanding of Information Security too

[edgy shard]

are their enough jobs in the tech industry of this stack? because unfortunately, in my country this stack has relevantly less jobs than other.

[opal arrow]

which course did you take for college?

[white relic]

It sounds like you've done your research and probably know the answer better than other people here, at least as it pertains to your country.

[edgy shard]

but what about other countries? bec I do have plans to move out.

My ultimate goal is Data Science/ML i was just curious about Django

[eager jungle]

I took BTech Artificial intelligence and Data Science

[eager jungle]

And there is a worry about my career.

The projects I have made until now have random topics.

For example:

1. 2d physics renderer for terminal
2. A website
3. Web Scraping projects
4. Automation projects
5. Rendering chaos attractors( a complex math function) ( idk if you can consider them as projects)
6. A websocket based Chat app

I want to get a job in AI and Machine learning. What should I include in my resume, and what more projects should i do for the job?

[gritty rivet]

You can look at the job openings in the countries you are interested in on Indeed, LinkedIn, etc. But keep in mind that the overwhelming majority of positions will not be sponsoring visas

[gritty rivet]

If you want AI/ML jobs, you should have AI/ML projects in your portfolio

[eager jungle]

Yeah you are right, I am wondering how to find the projects I wanna add into my portfolio

[gritty rivet]

Anything you want. Kaggle contests could be one source of ideas

[fringe sphinx]

One thing to consider is finding / contributing to an open source project that's career-relevant. (Contributing is a very loose term... even triaging bugs or reporting issues or testing, etc counts).

It's a multi-year effort to really get deep in a open source project, but it'll teach you a lot of engineering skills that projects-alone won't.

[eager jungle]

I can understand "contributing" for a traditional project. But I am confused what it means to contribute to a AI project

AI projects have inaccuracies in predictions, idk if we can call it as bugs

[fringe sphinx]

Why is it different? For example: https://github.com/pytorch/pytorch/issues?q=is%3Aopen+is%3Aissue+label%3A"good+first+issue"

[eager jungle]

It seems complex, but I can understand by contributing to these issues, i can get a deeper understanding of the module, as well as projects

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, I mean this more as a longer-term goal. Again, it's really hard to dive into a major project like pytorch if you're not ready, but there's always lots of other smaller projects/etc.

You could also watch conference videos and try to dive into something that looks interesting. There's always talks by solo developers who are working on a side project.

[eager jungle]

How can I find these interviews? Do i just search it up?

[fringe sphinx]

EuroPython, PyCon US, PyCon,

[eager jungle]

I mean, in AI

[fringe sphinx]

Just skim the talk titles.

[eager jungle]

Yeah I'm finding topics related to mine. Thanks

Anything more would you like to add?

[fringe sphinx]

I dunno, that's a lot of material. Start there!

[eager jungle]

Sure 😃

[true harness]

there's also non-Py* conference focused on ML

[eager jungle]

I would like to know about them

[true harness]

I'm not too knowledgeable, but I'm sure you can Google for them

[eager jungle]

Sure 👍

[raven hinge]

hey so I want to learn full stack development but I have a LOT of questions. I would like to still be able to use python for back-end, managing databases, API's etc. I also would like to learn a front-end framework for js, css, and html. Does anyone have some stacks using python or a roadmap of things I should learn??

when it comes to databases I have a bunch of experience with PostgreSQL and I have done a lot of programming with python

What I'm new to is web development and front-end as I'm used to making CLI applications and ASCII games

the only experience I have with building front end is a django course, pygame, and java swing library

[brazen island]

MDN's front-end and full stack also has a course on Django. It's always a great place to start to learn web.

[raven hinge]

could you drop a link in my dm's?

[brazen island]

I could, but learning to look up things is important. If you just type "MDN front-end" it's the first link 👍

[raven hinge]

from Mozilla dev?

[brazen island]

Yes

[raven hinge]

alright thanks I'll look into it

[grand acorn]

what can u do after u learn a good amount of python, like is there a way to make money or do any work

[true harness]

you can get a job

[grand acorn]

with just python only?

[true harness]

it depends what you mean by "python only". you will need some associated skills

[grand acorn]

I'm only 14 years old and I'm kinda into coding so I'm trying to learn python right now so shit is easier in the future, as I heard tech companies are getting really harder to get into and AI might (probably not) replace jobs, I also don't know what I'm doing right now I'm just watching youtube tutorials to learn some python and do some projects along the way.

I might take CS as a subject in the future to further pursue my career

[fringe sphinx]

Youtube is awesome, but it's filled with hot takes like "ai is going to take our jerbs! https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/011/129/RT.jpg

[grand acorn]

I don't really believe that lol. it's probably just gonna help us do work instead of completely replacing us

[gritty rivet]

Focus on exploring whatever interests you and then eventually going to the best university you can. It's pretty difficult to get paid as a programmer when you don't have a degree, so you may need normal student jobs in HS/university

[fringe sphinx]

That's my view. Just like Google / search engines did. Imagine trying to develop before search engines?

[grand acorn]

What "projects" do you think I should build?

like a discord bot or something?

[gritty rivet]

Sure. Anything that interests you and keeps you engaged in learning something new will be time well spent

[grand acorn]

Ah, alright man thank you

I love coding, it's able to be practiced at any age and can be self-taught with easily accessible resources on the internet :D

[pine sleet]

Sure, just be aware that most people might not realize it but discord bots can be tricky and are generally advanced projects. I started off learning python with discord bots, had some trouble but got the hang of it. They're lots of fun, though!

[grand acorn]

Thanks!

btw what do you think is a good/fun discord bot to build, like dankmemer is a kind of game and the modmail bot here is used to send messages to mods

[iron vessel]

Guys I am making a good program, I want someone to test it and help me a bit for it

[deft herald]

#❓｜how-to-get-help

this channel is for career discussion

[iron vessel]

Breh

[modern ore]

Breh

[edgy yew]

What do you guys generally program

Im thinking programs, to games, to UIs atp

Which is most common and lucrative?

[deft herald]

I work on an automation framework for testing hardware

[deft herald]

This is essentially an impossible question to answer. It's like asking "what's the best algorithm?"

[blazing harbor]

hmm

[white relic]

The best paid programmers tend to have a combination of programming skill, specialized domain knowledge, and work in an industry that has a lot of money to spend

[steel kindle]

I make enterprise software

But like everyone else said, there’s no best category

[grizzled dune]

do software engineers mess with AI?

[pine sleet]

sure. "Software engineering" these days refers to pretty much anyone who writes code and is broad enough to cover folks who work with AI

[grizzled dune]

lol 👌

[gilded shell]

i wanna get into cyber security and i have little to no experience on python how do i start

[peak halo]

this is the career discussion channel, so I assume your goal is a career in cybersec--not just learning it for interests sake. So you should get a degree in cyber security, or in computer science with a cyber security concentration.

if you're just interested in it, you can talk about it in #cybersecurity

[gilded shell]

can u answer my question in #cybersecurity also thank you

[peak halo]

I don't know anything about cyber security. just that getting a relevant degree is a key step.

[steel kindle]

How would you go about getting contract gigs?

Alternatively a remote job that will allow me to work from any country.

[peak halo]

someone said a few hours ago that remote, international, entry-level jobs are nonexistent

[peak halo]

and this message about contract gigs: #career-advice message

[steel kindle]

I am not looking for an entry level job

But yeah I guess it would just depend on building a network

online gigs will have too much competition to make it worth it

[eager jungle]

It will take few months to build your own network of customers

First month, you will hardly get a project in freelancing, even if you get it, your pay will be very low than normal

[steel kindle]

All of the online gigs I find are terrible, I will probably just have to reach out to people.

They're usually trivial, customers seem like a pain, and pay <$20/hr

[eager jungle]

Yeah you would need to

[steel kindle]

Well I mean people I already know versus looking for gig postings