questions-2

[tropic thistle]

So it's hard because I'm not actually a dialectologist and most of the discussion usually just says "some dialects generalize the her- forms" and as you quite rightly note it's hard to tell if that's actual generalization of one form, or just a spoken form that doesn't affect the ability to distinguish hin/her forms.

The closest I've found so far is https://www.reddit.com/r/German/comments/7lxd47/comment/drzsmeo/ (but, you know, the Alemannen :) and I should have a look at the Sprachatlas as I suspect that may have some info.

So yes, it basically seems like the boundaries they draw are:

-nördlich des Mains 'vollständig aufgehoben', zumindest was die Alltagssprache angeht -- wie du schon sagst, bezieht dies sich hauptsächlich auf die mündliche Reduzierung und Zusammenfall zum rein/raus usw.

In Österreich wird das streng voneinander getrennt gehalten, in der Schweiz dagegen ist eine Differenzierung nicht mehr zu sehen

https://www.atlas-alltagssprache.de/runde-2/f24a-b/

[long whale]

Either "in Österreich" or "Im Österreichischen" ;) And yes, it's the same in Bavarian, where even in speaking, the distinction is always maintained (auffi = hinauf, auffa = herauf).

[shut briar]

Hallo, jetzt bin ich

Im Oktober hat Daber eine Werbung mit einem lesbischen Paar, das Karwa Chauth feierte, nach einer Warnung des MP Ministers entfernt.

Is it okay that the verb ist so at the end

Isn't it confusing

In english i would say it in a completely different way but i'm not sure how to translate it

In October , a company took down an advertisement featuring a lesbian couples celebrating Karva Chauth, after receiving a warning from MPs Minister

[rare jetty]

es geht um = it's about

[barren isle]

Ich verstehe. Das ist interessant.

[tame rampart]

Hallo leute

[heavy viper]

is it correct to say "1973 ist die erste E-mail verschicken worden" ? I mean, wouuldn't it be better to say "wurde ... verschickt" because we are talking about a distant past?

or is both are exactly the same in german?

[proven sphinx]

It's always "verschickt".

"verschicken" is just the infinitive or the form for the 1st or 3rd person present plural.

(Im Jahre) 1973 ist die erste E-Mail verschickt worden.

[heavy viper]

um yeah my mistake, but it's exactly the same as to say "wurde ... verchickt"?

[proven sphinx]

Yeah, the Präteritum and the Perfekt have no difference in meaning. The Präteritum just sounds more formal in most cases.

[solid hull]

except for in passive constructions, right

[proven sphinx]

1973 wurde die erste E-Mail verschickt.
1973 ist die erste E-Mail verschickt wurden.

I'd prefer the first sentence in a formal text, but the second if I'm just telling this to a friend or something.

[proven sphinx]

Nah, it applies there as well. It's just that the passive is already found in more formal contexts than the active, so it makes sense to use the passive Präteritum over the passive Perfekt in most cases.

[solid hull]

ah

yall don't use the preterite at all right

or is it the other way around

[proven sphinx]

No, that's most certainly not true. Both tenses are used frequently. It's just that with most verbs, using the preterite would sound very odd in speech, though less so in writing.

[solid hull]

by yall i mean the swiss

inspeech

[proven sphinx]

Nobody would ever say "Wo gingt ihr am Wochenende hin?"

[proven sphinx]

Oh, yeah. It's completely absent from Swiss German.

[solid hull]

i c

[heavy viper]

thanks, i thought that sein... worden was like something just happened.

[proven sphinx]

Nah, you may have been influenced by the Present Perfect in English there. The German Perfekt doesn't have that connotation.

[solid hull]

so dready

[proven sphinx]

But it's not always quite as easy as "Präteritum is formal, Perfekt is informal". With certain verbs like "sein", "haben" and the modal verbs, using the Präteritum is very common even in speech. Saying "Ich habe viel Angst gehabt" might even sound strange to many German speakers, especially those from Northern Germany.

[tropic thistle]

Just confirming quickly -- I'd expect ist...worden, not ist...wurden - was that intentional?

[spring socket]

what would the reaction be like if someone did say that?

[proven sphinx]

How is that grammatically wrong? 🤔

Ich ging, du gingst, er/sie/es ging, wir gingen, ihr gingt, sie gingen...

[tropic thistle]

...auch im Perfekt Passiv, d.h. Der Patient ist vor der Operation untersucht wurden ?

[proven sphinx]

Dude, did you even read the sentence at all?

It was about whether it's "ist...worden" or "ist...wurden", and only "ist...worden" is correct.

[tropic thistle]

(right, so just a typo then, thanks)

[proven sphinx]

No, it has to be "worden".

[tropic thistle]

Yes, I know, in your examples above (1973 usw.) i think you accidentally typed wurden

[noble yacht]

Not about "wurde die erste E-Mail verschickt"?

[tropic thistle]

In your second sentence

[proven sphinx]

It was about what to use for the Perfekt.

[noble yacht]

ahh, I misunderstood that. Youre right, sorry

[proven sphinx]

"Wo gingt ihr am Wochenende hin?" still isn't grammatically incorrect. It's just not something you'd hear in speech.

[noble yacht]

Yep. Misunderstood that

Sorry

[stark elm]

A question for natives or anyone familiar with the history of the language.

How similar is Proto-Germanic and High German ? I know Icelanders can mostly read the Icelandic sagas because it's quiet similar. I was wondering if German had the same effect or if it was really different.

[dire niche]

they are completely different

a german speaker wouldnt have a single hope of understanding protogermanic if they heard it (and didnt know anything about it)

[stark elm]

Ah alrighty thank you c:

[dire niche]

np

[proven sphinx]

Proto-Germanic was spoken like 4000 years ago, so it would be completely unrecognizable to modern German speakers.

Wait...

I think it was more like 2000 years. Lel.

Yeah, I had to look it up. It's around 2300 years, more or less.

[charred harbor]

That was a descendant of Proto-Indo-European, right?

[mellow nova]

yeah most every european language is proto indo european. Only ones i can think of that aren't are like finnish, estonian, hungarian and other similar minority languages

and west asian/indian

[fervent kernel]

what does üble hin-und-her-Geschichte mean?

[proven sphinx]

That might be hard without some context.

It's probably something that went back and forth, for whatever reason.

[wild gazelle]

and Basque, I believe

[hollow vapor]

My head is a mess

When would I have to use worden and not geworden? - As far as I know, werden is irregular.

[hollow vapor]

The best explanation I have read. Thanks.

[thorny mica]

anyone online currently? ive got a question

[swift bough]

Just ask your question whenever you have one and someone will eventually get to it

[thorny mica]

just wondering if anyone is located in schleswig holstein atm?

[swift bough]

Ah, for these kinds of questions you’re gonna wanna ask in #archived-culture-study-visa . These #questions #questions-2 channels are really meant for German language questions

[thorny mica]

gotcha thanks

[shut briar]

"Das ist das einzige Bild, das ich von ihr aufbewahrt habe"

Von ihr bezieht sich hier auf die Frau, deren Foto es ist oder ?

Wenn ja, dann ist die Position im Satz ein bisschen komisch für mich

Ich glaube, es sollte nach dem 'Bild' stehen

[long whale]

Who/What else could it refer to? :) Yes, you could argue that placing "von ihr" after "Bild" would work better. Then again, it's nice to have the relative pronoun after the noun it refers to - which is probably why the speaker moved "von ihr" to the relative clause. :)

[shut briar]

Yeah..i guess i'm just trying to understand the no. of ways it can be structured. As a non native i have no way of knowing what's standard, what's colloquial and what's wrong

[long whale]

Yes, of course. I'd say in this case, your version would be standard, the given version would definitely be colloquial, bordering on wrong, while still used a lot by native speakers. :)

It's probably a case of "Don't do as I do, do as I say" 🤷

[shut briar]

If it makes sense to natives, i'm okay... i try to follow more of a descriptive grammar of a language

This example just didn't make semantic sense to me. In english it would either be with picture or with the verb

This is the only picture of her that I have or this is the only picture I have of her

[shut briar]

I'm not sure what that means but i get the gist

[shut briar]

Dass sie früh gestorben ist, das war nicht gelogen''

I'm guessing the second clause is passive

Why isn't it vorgangs?

Das wurde nicht gelogen?

[long whale]

Why would it be Vorgangspassiv? That would correspond to "That wasn't being lied about" which seems rather nonsensical to me. 🤔

[shut briar]

That wasn't lied isn't something one says either, if we are translating

[shut briar]

That's a lie is Das ist gelogen in the dictionary so maybe it's the not perfect form of lügen?

[hollow ether]

A direct translation but possibly not the right one. It's more like "that's not a lie"

[long whale]

Ehh, no. "Das ist/war gelogen" is indeed Zustandpassiv. In Aktiv, you'd say "Niemand hat [diesbezüglich] gelogen". :)

"Auf dem Mars wird/wurde ständig gelogen und betrogen" (On Mars, everybody is/was lying and cheating all the time) :)

[shut briar]

Klar, i think i am translating too much, cause in English you wouldn't say that is lied na

[fervent kernel]

what does it make "knattern" ? i translated it on deepl but i dont see how it would make sense

rattle with someone makes also no sense in english

[hollow ether]

What's the sentence?

[fervent kernel]

"einmal knattern und weg"

[hollow ether]

It might be referring to the "old timer" cars but I'm not sure

Like they "knattern" when you start the engine and then you can drive away

🤷‍♂️

[delicate tiger]

depending on context: have sex

[fervent kernel]

it might be this thanks

[hybrid swallow]

Heyo guys, i've decided to learn german but i don't know where to start, do you guys have any advices? I downloaded Duolingo but idk what i should do to improve grammar, listening, and the writing

[scenic drift]

maybe read through #getting-started and read through the list of resources there :)

[hybrid swallow]

thank u

[hexed gust]

Hi all... I'm not a fan of fiction books (novels, comics, plays/works). Does anyone know any German books that they like with science or politics content? Example would probably be books about evolution, astrophysics, Homo Deus kind of book, criminal case studies, etc. (preferably no pseudoscience and psychology).

Also does anyone know a site where you can see popular german books this week/this month/this year (updated periodically) etc.?

[spring socket]

I think der Spiegel does a list of the best-selling books in Germany, not all of which are fiction

[near folio]

Du könntest nach der Übersetzung von Büchern nachschauen, die du schon mal gelesen hast.

Das letzte Buch, das ich gelesen habe, ging um den Klimawandel. Ich fand es sehr interessant und es war relativ einfach zu lesen und verstehen: https://www.amazon.de/-/en/Sven-Plöger/dp/3864892864

Gerade lese ich ein Buch über Quantenphysik, was glaube ich in jeder Sprache schwierig zu verstehen ist. Hier ist es: https://www.amazon.de/Die-zweite-Quantenrevolution-Mikrokosmos-Supertechnologien/dp/3662575183

[lost raven]

weil ich in den Zukunft ein Astronaut will bin
because i want to be an astronaut in the future, makes sense?

[delicate tiger]

"Weil ich ein Astronaut werden will"

[lost raven]

thanks

how would you say 'because it keeps us healthy'

[vapid crypt]

weil es uns gesund hält

[fervent kernel]

is the word for Waist really Taille?

i want to say " i wrap my arms around his waist"

deepl says "ich schlinge meine Arme um seine Taille"

also how would the meaning be if i says abklammer instead of umschlingen?

[long whale]

Yes

"abklammern" doesn't exist. You probably meant "umklammern" - which is what you do when you're hoping to prevent falling off a cliff.

[lunar crown]

How would you translate "I suck at chatting" in german?

[scenic drift]

you should have a go at translating yourself, first 😉

[fervent kernel]

I think I heard it used in the context of a person who is too clingy, needy

[lunar crown]

Ich bin nicht gut an reden oder ich bin eine Niete (?)

Ich bin eine Niete in das Reden

[fervent kernel]

Like a negative Eigenschaft

[long whale]

Ich bin nicht gut im Reden. :)

[scenic drift]

i think Niete is a bit too much of a negative connotation 😆

[lunar crown]

Thanks

[long whale]

@scenic drift Is "abklammern" another verb I've never come across (nor has DWDS) because it's too youthful?

[scenic drift]

omg, i'm probably not the right person to ask, susana 🙈 most of my interaction with german speakers has been with folks in the older age ranges 😅

[fervent kernel]

I think it was "klammer keine frauen ab, nur losers machen das" or along those lines

[lunar crown]

so doesn't a word that means literally 'to suck' in german really exist? Like if I want to say someone sucks how should I do

[fervent kernel]

You have more descriptive options

[scenic drift]

no, i don't think there's a word that translates to exactly the same... just how languages work yknow

you can do "... ist scheiße", for example...

[fervent kernel]

Like for learning or school related you would say " er ist nicht begabt"

Or "er ist nicht aufgewacht"

More for children

[lunar crown]

alrightt, thank you both

[long whale]

"aufgeweckt" is what you mean, I guess.

[fervent kernel]

Yeah that's the one

How common is the Sprichwort " einen Affen im Eimer haben" ?

I was looking for witzige ways to say I drank too much without actually saying it

[whole portal]

I have never heard it

[scenic drift]

@swift bough this is long ago, but see what i got from susana and co here about the topic :)

[fervent kernel]

But could you have guessed it what I meant? If we were talking normally and I told you this, would you have asked me to clarify what I meant?

[whole portal]

No - would not have guessed

Yes - would ask

[fervent kernel]

Do you have anything on top of your head that comes close to what I want to say, but is more idiomatic?

[scenic drift]

besoffen is a lovely adjective

and its lovely cousin sturzbesoffen

[whole portal]

Ich hab' zu tief ins Glas geschaut.
Ich hab' mir einen hinter die Binde gekippt.

[fervent kernel]

What about Versauft

[fervent kernel]

The first one gives me depression vibes idk, the second one I don't understand what Binde means, but it says " I poured one (shot) behind the... "

[scenic drift]

isn't versaufen more like spending a lot of money on alcohol?

[whole portal]

But I think most of the time you would just say besoffen or hacke.

[whole portal]

Yea

Binde veraltet im Sinne von Krawatte

[scenic drift]

(see also verhuren which is maybe a wee bit too rude for polite company )

[whole portal]

That sounds like a neologism to me tbh

[fervent kernel]

In the song "späti" from Gzuz

He says Wow, die kleine Schlampe ist versaut

[whole portal]

Versaut is something different

[fervent kernel]

That's why I thought it meant like besoffen

[whole portal]

Why are you listening to gzuz to begin with lol

Versaut means dirty in a sexual sense

[fervent kernel]

Ooooh

Mir fällt es jetzt ein "sie mag es rau"

Daher stammt versaut ne?

[whole portal]

Wahrscheinlich

[fervent kernel]

Ja das mag sein

So I could say "sie lässt versaute Gedanken in mir Hochsteigen" or "sie lässt anzügliche Gedanken in mir Hochsteigen" right? @whole portal also why should I not listen to Gzuz?

[whole portal]

Well

Gzuz would probably not say anzüglich

But yes

You can listen to whatever you want I just didnt expect to be interpreting gangster rap when I joined the server

[swift bough]

Lmao

[swift bough]

Because why not I like his music too

[wise pendant]

The right form would be versoffen for that matter

[spring socket]

https://tenor.com/view/gzuz-gif-19509849

[fervent kernel]

Could someone explain „beredtes Schweigen“ to me QAQ help

(I'm guessing it's something along the lines of reden ist silber, schweigen ist Gold but when I googled it the results were all related to legal right to silence and whatnot)

[weak mist]

eloquant silence is the direct translation

or silver-lined silence

[fervent kernel]

Alter ich kapier die Phrase auch nicht

wusste nicht mal was beredt heißt :/

[dapper lion]

Hello!
Our teacher just taught us how to ask to go to the bathroom: "Kann ich aufs Klo gehen"

From my understanding "aufs" is a combination of auf (on) and **das **.
My question is, all propositions are able to be combined to the neutral article?
And is there a blanket term for the combination (I haven't reached this subject yet)
Thank you in advance!

[near folio]

ex contractions

[mellow nova]

Not all no

[stoic mauve]

Contractions

A contraction (Verschmelzung or Schmelzwort) is a shortened form of a word or group of words created by omitting letters and sounds. Common examples of contractions in English are:

I'm = I am
won't = will not
let's = let us
-'re = are (e.g. we're walking home)

Contractions are often used in German, especially with prepositions and definite articles that take the accusative or dative (never the genitive). For example, zu dem is often shortened to zum, as seen here:

Pferd geht zum Zahnarzt.

Some contractions with prepositions are so common (see below) that they are effectively manadatory in normal speech. Writing the full form has the effect of emphasising the definite article, indicating that you are referring to a specific object. For example:

Pferd geht zu dem Zahnarzt, der ihm gestern empfohlen wurde.

Common contractions in German

These contractions are used very often and are acceptable in formal German.

ans = an das
am = an dem
beim = bei dem
im = in dem
ins = in das
vom = von dem
zum = zu dem
zur = zu der

Additionally, the pronoun es is often contracted when it comes directly after the verb in certain set phrases. For example, the greeting Wie geht es dir? is often contracted to Wie geht's dir?

Contractions in informal German

Contracting the article das to -s in prepositions is very commonly used in informal, spoken German, and sometimes appears in formal German in set phrases.

aufs = auf das
durchs = durch das
fürs = für das
übers = über das
ums = um das
unters = unter das

Contracting the article dem to -m is relatively common in spoken German with almost all prepositions. For example:

hinterm = hinter dem
überm = über dem
unterm = unter dem

Contracting the other articles can also occur, but this is relatively rare.

[near folio]

@dapper lion

[dapper lion]

Oh they're called contractions?

thank you! 🤗

[merry python]

@copper basin

First of all, you can use both as synonyms for each other, when you mean use something for a specific purpose.

e.g. "Ich nutze/benutze mein Handy, wenn ich schnell etwas herausfinden möchte"

Now the differences-

"Nutzen" is always needed when talking about abstract things. It also has the meaning of "One gains advantages or a benefit from a certain action"

e.g. "Ich sollte diese Chance nutzen!"

"Benutzen" means something like: "to make use of". You always use "benutzen" with concrete things, that's why you hears it more often than "nutzen".

e.g. "Ich benutze eine Gabel zum Essen."

"Benutzen" also has the meaning of "using a person". Like wanting to gain personal advantages by entering into closer contact with person

e.g. "Ich benutze sie nur, um an geheime Informationen zu kommen"

In the named cases, they are rather not used as synonyms.

[copper basin]

Ok cool thank you very much

[fervent kernel]

Quick question, is there a Redewendung maybe for when you talk with someone about something

Then some days later the other person wants to talk about it again

So you tell him something like "you have to freshen up my memory"

[vapid crypt]

Vielleicht können wir darüber reden

[fervent kernel]

Or something like that

[fervent kernel]

No I explained myself bad

I mean like you forgot what was said and need a Zusammenfassung

[vapid crypt]

Erinnerst du dich, dass wir Letztens reden wollten?

[vapid crypt]

ohhhh

then I cant help atm

[fervent kernel]

I was thinking something like "du musst mir das Geschehen im Kopf erfrischen"

Or something like that

If you know what I mean

[vapid crypt]

yeah, I would just say
Erinnerst du dich noch...

[fervent kernel]

So like "du muss mich daran erinnern"

[vapid crypt]

yes, but du musst is more like "you have to"

[fervent kernel]

So saying "du musst mir das Gespräch erfrischen" means gibberish in German?

[vapid crypt]

well, you would translate it to: "You have to refresh the conversation to me"

du musst dir das Gespräch auffrischen
is ok

[fervent kernel]

@vapid crypt thanks Dominik

[vapid crypt]

np ^^

[tropic thistle]

this (+ erinnerst du dich noch) is for the situation in which the speaker (ich) thinks that their audience (du) doesn't remember the conversation and needs to review it

but V's situation is the one in which the speaker (ich) has forgotten the conversation, and is asking the audience (du) if they can help by refreshing their memory, so the reverse, right?

[vapid crypt]

well, I thought the other way 😅

[full bobcat]

How do i bend strong and weak verbs and whats the difference in how you bend them?

[mellow nova]

bend? like conjugate? ich habe, du hast etc

[full bobcat]

yeah-

sorry english isnt my first language lol

[mellow nova]

no problem i just want to know how to answer

Weak verbs are easy, they always follow the table
ich: stem+e
du: stem+st
er/sie/es: stem+t
wir: stem+en
ihr: stem+t
sie/Sie: stem+en

strong verbs you kind of just have to learn, there are no rules

they usually follow a similar conjugation structure but they will have changes in the stem in the du and er/sie/es (and sometimes ich) form

and there are a few weak irregular verbs (like haben) that you also just have to learn by heart

[full bobcat]

okay thank so much, youre really out here saving my grades lol

[swift bough]

Isn‘t that the same thing when a verb is weak or irregular? What did I forget

[mellow nova]

weak means the verb in Präteritum and Konjunktiv II takes the -te ending

and no stem change

[swift bough]

Ah gotcha that’s right

[scenic drift]

now i'm curious what your first language is 👀 in e.g. swedish, böja = to bend also means to inflect

[full bobcat]

swedish 😳

[mellow nova]

Mikey ur insane

[swift bough]

Lol

[scenic drift]

huehuehue

knew it would be worth it to learn swedish >:D

[delicate tiger]

("beugen" kann man auf Deutsch mit beiden Bedeutungen benutzen)

[tropic thistle]

apropos dessen s. auch das folgende gedicht von c. morgenstern: https://arnoldzwicky.org/2010/07/01/der-werwolf/

[spring socket]

deine Mutter soll sterben, Bastard - Gzuz said this to a journalist who was pissing him off. I'm wondering why he used 'soll' here, as I understand that to mean 'should'? Should doesn't seem to fit here

[mellow nova]

Sollte is more of the suggestive "Should"
Soll has much more definitiveness, more akin to the near-archaic "Shall"

I'm sorry, I'm assuming you're a native english speaker, are you? @spring socket

or at least fluent

[spring socket]

I am, shall does fit a lot better here. Thanks!

[mellow nova]

np

[barren marsh]

Wie geht's is the informal version of wie geht es dir right?

[long whale]

No, it's just a shortened and kind of "neutral" version. "Wie geht es dir?" is informal address (because of du/dir). The formal version is "Wie geht es Ihnen?" (because of Sie/Ihnen). :)

[barren marsh]

ohhhhhh okok sehr danke

[long whale]

*Danke sehr (sehr danke = very thanks) Which is a shortened version of [Ich] danke [dir/Ihnen] sehr = [I] thank [you] very [much] :)

[barren marsh]

oops my bad ok Danke sehr

[hexed gust]

Which german textbooks do you think are good for language learning?

Like, Ideen? geni@l?

[icy flax]

I liked the Sicher ones

But I guess I like cz of the classmates I had, @hexed gust.

Nowadays id go for YouTube content and a pretty dry somewhat dense grammar book bc I am old and gray in heart haha

[hexed gust]

Ah alright what's cz btw?

and idt i've really had much interest for books with illustrations but i thought i gotta start somewhere and these DaF books might be a good start for a more structured learning

[tropic thistle]

V is using it as an abbreviation for because

[hexed gust]

ohh

alrightt

thx v

[cedar dome]

Wo finde ich einen Fahrkartenautomat
Oder
Wo finde ich ein Fahrkartenautomat?

[half arch]

"Wo finde ich **einen **Fahrkartenautomat?"

[scenic drift]

Etwas [akk] finden!

[tropic thistle]

(just to note, they asked over in the other questions channel and it was discussed there + Automat technically being an n-Deklination noun)

[gaunt beacon]

is the equivalent for saying sorry for clarification Entschuldigung?

[violet needle]

Yes

[gaunt beacon]

ok cool, thanks

[polar abyss]

Hey ya'll, how can i say "You will never fit in" in german?

[half arch]

Is it supposed to mean "You´ll never fit into this hole" or "You´ll never fit into our society"

[polar abyss]

Society, like not to blend in or adopt

[half arch]

that would be "Du wirst nie(mals) dazugehören!"

[polar abyss]

Thank you! I have also found "Du passt da nicht so rein" is this also the same meaning?

[half arch]

yep

[polar abyss]

Danke

[cedar dome]

Danke

[cedar dome]

Danke

Sie haben Anschluss in Düsseldorf, dann fahren sie weiter.
Oder
Sie haben einen Anschluss in Düsseldorf, dann fahren sie weiter.

[limpid lotus]

Ist das eine Frage oder eine Antwort?

[cedar dome]

Aussage satz entschuldigung

[limpid lotus]

Antwort ist auch richtig, passt schon

[cedar dome]

Danke

[fervent kernel]

Was ist eine Moralpredikt

Sonntagsrede

[limpid lotus]

eine Mahnung, die recht aufdringlich zu richtigem Verhalten auffordert
(meiner Erfahrung nach machen Leute, die einem Moralpredigten halten, selbst oft Fehler in den Dingen, in denen sie andere Leute belehren)

[fervent kernel]

Das ist sowieso immer so

[crisp dust]

man sagt über altere Menschen, dass wenn sie Moralpredigen geben, sie über ihre Vergangenheit erzählen
zum beispiel

[fervent kernel]

Leute die schlecht über andere reden und sie belehren sind oft selbst schlimmer

[limpid lotus]

ja

[crisp dust]

stimm ich zu

[rough furnace]

Ist das richtig?

[limpid lotus]

you would rather split "zumach" to "mach ... zu" try correcting that

[delicate tiger]

1,3,4,5: ✅ ; 2: Wir -> plural; 6: plural/trennbar

[limpid lotus]

versuche übrigens auf deine Groß-und Kleinschreibung zu achten, das kann sonst als Fehler angestrichen werden ^^

[rough furnace]

Would "Esst etwas" work on the second question?

[limpid lotus]

yes, because you tell many people directly therefor being Imperativ 2. Plural ("Ihr")

[rustic hawk]

Suppose one person was telling another person to wake up. Would they say "Wach auf!" or "Aufwache(n)!"? When would one use "Aufwachen" in a sentence?

[mellow nova]

Separable verbs are still separated in imperative

[limpid lotus]

you would rather use Wach auf! but you can use both in this matter (aufwache__n__ if you want to use that)

[rustic hawk]

May I ask what you mean by this?

It's a little confusing 😅

[limpid lotus]

talking about Aufwache(n) and that you seperate it in Imperativ -> Wach auf (you can use both in this sentence tho)

[rustic hawk]

Oh? I know imperativ is something relating to Grammatik, though I don't remember--
Google remains helpful. Thank you both 😄

[limpid lotus]

Imperativ is used when you give (sort of) commands

xD

[rustic hawk]

So what Delli was saying is: When you can separate verbs in Imperativ, you should separate them?

[limpid lotus]

you can seperate some verbs when using the Imperativ

[rustic hawk]

I believe I understand now, thank you ^-^

[limpid lotus]

no problem

[limpid lotus]

examples:
Etwas Aufmachen -> Mach das auf!
Einschlafen -> Schlaf ein!

[spring socket]

könnte jemand mir den Begriff ''Haftschaden'' erklären? soviel ich weiß, hat der Begriff damit zu tun, dass man Gewohnheiten im Knast bildet ,die das eigene Leben nach der Haftentlassung prägen. Man nennt solche Gewohnheiten ''Haftschaden''. ist das eine akkurate Beschreibung des Begriffs? Ich habe gelesen, dass der Begriff besonders schwer zu definieren ist

[limpid lotus]

Das ist gut getroffen

[spring socket]

das freut mich, danke!

[limpid lotus]

gerne

[low venture]

Ok so we were doing translations into German in class and one of them was the feeling of the protagonist. I put das Gefühl des Protagonists. My teacher said that it was actually des Protagonisten for some reason that was too complicated to explain

I forgot the term she used so i just want to know it in the future

she said it was a topic for next year

it was masculine singular also

[limpid lotus]

Dem Den Dessen etc (NOM GEN DAT AKK)

Kasus

[low venture]

but that's for relative clauses isn't it?

[limpid lotus]

Des Protagonisten would be Maskulin Genitiv -> des Protagonisten(s)/des Protagonists

[low venture]

what about des Manns

of the man

would that be correct

[limpid lotus]

des Mannes/des Manns

yes

[low venture]

so why not des Protagonists

cause you add an 's' on the end

if it's genitive masculine

[limpid lotus]

forgot to add that

[low venture]

ah ok

cool

thanks

but how come it can also be protagonisten

[limpid lotus]

depending on the relation in the sentence

[low venture]

ah ok

so what's that grammatical rule called?

so i can learn it

[spring socket]

My inkling is that Protagonist is a weak noun. Nouns of this class (Drache, Kaiserlicher, Fürst, Diamant) are declined in the Genitive not with an s, but an -en (it's not die Krallen des Draches, but die Krallen des Drachen).

[low venture]

ah yeah i remember hearing about weak and strong nouns

thank you

i'll research that

ich werde das forschen

[limpid lotus]

thanks for helping me out xD

[limpid lotus]

nachforschen*

[low venture]

ah danke

[half arch]

oder erforschen

[low venture]

ja

[spring socket]

bitte!

[spring socket]

no worries!

[light ocean]

What's a way to say "I refuse" informally?

[vapid crypt]

Ich weigere mich

More common: Ich will das nicht

[split sluice]

Hi, I am new at german, is there a website where I can get the conjugation of any verb? Like RAE for spanish or BIN for icelandic?

[spring socket]

verbformen

[split sluice]

Thanks

[scenic drift]

i like wiktionary, it's my main reference for declinations/conjugations of just about anything...

[split sluice]

That's just what I wanted, some charts with the tense on top

I need to get used to german, imperfect is basically past, am I right on that?

[delicate tiger]

Imperfekt is past for stories/novels
Perfekt is for speaking
no difference in meaning

[near folio]

ex weak nouns

[stoic mauve]

Weak Nouns

Weak nouns are called this way because they receive the same endings as adjectives inflected with weak endings. They take an additional ending -n in every case except nominative singular. This is also known as N-Declension and affects almost exclusively masculine nouns.

Nominativ: der Junge, die Junge__n__
Genitiv: des Junge__n__, der Junge__n__
Dativ: dem Junge__n__, den Junge__n__
Akkusativ: den Junge__n__, die Junge__n__

Some nouns end with a suffix -en to make the pronunciation easier:
der Mensch, den Mensch__en__

‼ Das Herz is the only non-masculine (neuter) noun with N-Declension❣

So how do we recognize these nouns? We can divide them into 3 big groups:

1. nouns of Greek and Latin origin,
2. nouns ending with -e (most of these refer to people or animals),
3. other random German nouns (Mensch, Herr, Student, Nachbar, Prinz etc.)

Another way to divide the groups could be:

1. nouns denoting male beings in general (der Bauer, der Knabe, der Herr, der Junge, der Kunde etc.)
2. nouns indicating nationality or religious affiliation (der Chinese, der Russe, der Türke, der Jude, der Katholik, der Protestant)
3. nouns designating male beings and ending in the foreign suffixes (-ant, -arch, -ast, -ege, -ent, -ist, -oge, -om, -oph, -ot: der Kollege, der Student, der Psychologe, der Polizist, der Philosoph)

‼ der Käse and words ending with -ee aren’t weak nouns.

Genitive of Weak Nouns
You might have noticed from the examples above that weak nouns don’t have the additional -s in genitive like other masculine nouns.
Some exceptions are das Herz and nouns of group 3 that don’t refer to people nor animals (Name, Wille, Glaube, Buchstabe etc.), which take both the -n and -s endings.
Example: der Name, des Name__ns__.

[near folio]

wir haben etwas zum Thema

[granite spade]

etwas auf etwas hin überholen

is this a verb

or just something that works in the particular text i'm reading

to pass something onto/into something else?

[sweet nymph]

Can I say the following "Ich springe zum Wasser"?

[vapid crypt]

Ich springe ins Wasser
I jump INTO the water

[sweet nymph]

Danke!

[cosmic tendon]

Ich habe heute einen Termin , aber ich fände es schön, wenn ich in dieses Wetter zu Hause bleiben würde.
is it correct ?

[rustic geyser]

what u wanna say exactly?

[cosmic tendon]

I have an appointment today, but I think it would be nice if I stayed at home in this weather.

[mellow nova]

könnte instead of würde i think

and würden finden would be more common than fänden i would assume

[rustic geyser]

Ich habe heute einen Termin, aber ich fände es schön, wenn ich bei diesem Wetter zu Hause bleiben könnte.

[vapid crypt]

+1

[mellow nova]

would 'aber ich finde, es wäre schön, wenn...' be better?

[fallow ledge]

Ive seen natives use fände, seems fine to me

[vague pebble]

well you would basically have 3 commas near each other which would make it sound less fluent - so not really better but possible

[heavy vortex]

What’s „what“ in German

[vague pebble]

"was"

[swift bough]

In some context it is „welche“ if you are referring to any noun, because in that case it’s a conjunction and not a question word

Like „what/which park“ = „welcher Park“

[pliant sinew]

how would i say “I have a band concert tonight” in deutsch?

[mellow nova]

try first

[pliant sinew]

ich habe ein band concert heute abend

[charred harbor]

That's not bad to be honest

[mellow nova]

close

heute Abend comes before the object

[pliant sinew]

i don’t the words for concert or band

okay

[mellow nova]

and band concert would be i guess Bandkonzert, but I don't know if there's a specific word for it

[charred harbor]

Band in German is just Band

And concert is Konzert

[cosmic condor]

Hi everyone,
What is the difference between mit and bei?

[charred harbor]

A potential point of confusion is that Band in German gets used with all three genders, and all of them bear very different meanings
The musical meaning of band is always "die". Der Band and das Band are something else

Konzert is neuter, obviously

[charred harbor]

Are there any particular examples where you're not seeing a difference?

[mellow nova]

mit is with but in a sense of together
the similar definition of bei is used for locative information meaning 'nearby/with'

usually bei meaning with is only used with people I think

[cosmic condor]

Yea...
1-Sie tanzt mit ihm.
2- Mark wohnt bei ihr.

[charred harbor]

Ah I see

Well with sentence 2 you could technically also say "Mark wohnt mit ihr", but the nuance would be different

In the case of that sentence "bei" would imply that she is the owner of the house and you're under her wing

If you had mit then maybe you're paying rent together or something

[mellow nova]

i would say mit would imply they're a couple

[charred harbor]

Yeah I can see that

[cosmic condor]

Oh okei... Thanx

[charred harbor]

"Sie tanzt bei ihm" sounds just weird though xD

Well it wouldn't really make sense

[mellow nova]

ìt would be like she's dancing by herself near him but idk why you would say that

[fluid river]

how would i tell a friend i hope you're doing fine

before someone tells me im gonna guess

ich hoffe es geht gut ?

[charred harbor]

Ich hoffe, es geht dir gut

[undone glade]

Could someone kindly explain what Akkusativ and Dertiv are?

[charred harbor]

Dativ, it's spelt

Akkusativ is basically object case (when the word is being used as a grammatical object)

Dativ is somewhat like "by means of" case (not really sure how else to describe it)

[shut briar]

It protects my sanity. Was passt besser hier? Vernunft oder Verstand ? Oder noch etwas

[long whale]

geistige Gesundheit, probably. :)

[mellow nova]

yep

die Eltern is a plural word

so add the plural accusative ending to the 2nd person singular informal possessive adjective

du- 2nd person informal singular pronoun

What is it's possessive adjective

du means you so what means your

yeah

[charred harbor]

Yes, but it changes for plural form

[mellow nova]

but add the plural accusativee ending

[charred harbor]

"Dein Eltern" would be wrong

[mellow nova]

dativ

[charred harbor]

Dative

[mellow nova]

a different case you'll learn

indirect object

[charred harbor]

Sentences aren't cases; components of them are

[mellow nova]

Sentences aren't accusative or nominative

Du spielst das Spiel

du is nominative and das Spiel is accusative

[scenic drift]

you just have to either know the case the verb takes, or look it up...

in the case of rufen:
https://en.pons.com/translate/german-english/rufen

for an exam you learn it 😆 though tbh you can take educated guesses

honestly, have a read thru this: https://www.bbc.co.uk/bitesize/guides/zg8pycw/revision/1, it helps you understand how to figure things out

in my view:

• there's a few verbs that take the nominative
• most verbs take the accusative
• some, but not many, verbs take the dative - you can learn these by heart
• few verbs take the genitive - gain you can take these by heart

uhm, because it's the object in the sentence?

and it's the gap that you need to fill :P

yes :P

[mellow nova]

this is a dumb question but isn't rufen like to call someone's name out

like get their attention

[scenic drift]

you see how i posted above that rufen is "jdn/etw rufen"? that means it's an accusative verb.

[mellow nova]

I wasn't sure lmao ty

[scenic drift]

among other meanings, yes.

... did you read what i wrote above?

[latent wadi]

no trick

[scenic drift]

"jemanden / etwas rufen"

[latent wadi]

jemanden und etwas

too quick

[scenic drift]

since it's jemanden, that means you have to use the accusative

if it were jemandem it would be dative.

[shut briar]

Schreiben schützt seine geistige Gesundheit, seems a bit mouthful....in which context do you use Vernunft then

[long whale]

Rarely. I'd say we mostly use it in expressions like "die Stimme der Vernunft" (the voice of reason) or "wieder zur Vernunft kommen" (to regain reason/rationality/sanity). I can't help it if you consider my suggestion "a mouthful". I really can't think of a way to use "Vernunft" in this context. 🤷

"Verstand" might work: Schreiben hilft mir/ihm dabei, bei Verstand zu bleiben.

OR Schreiben hilft mir/ihm dabei, den Verstand nicht zu verlieren.

[shut briar]

Was just wondering why you would use a compound phrase when a word already exists. But yeah if you do you do. I Still need to develop a lot of context cues and language feel

[mellow nova]

can someone explain the difference between the Partizip I and II adjectives? they make no sense to me

[long whale]

It's usually kind of like the difference between -ing and -ed adjectives in English, I think. 🤔 How about an example or two?

[mellow nova]

I would appreciate that

[long whale]

Ehh - misunderstanding. I was hoping you would provide some examples. 👀

[mellow nova]

oh I don't know how to use them though
I guess like aufgeregt vs aufregend?

[long whale]

Yeah. Exactly like in English with that one: I am excited (aufgeregt) vs. The film/book is exciting (aufregend).

[mellow nova]

oh wait that makes sense so does it depend on a case by case basis or is the Partizip II usually more of a state of being and Partizip I describes more of how they are perceived or experienced @long whale

like interested is how you're feeling but interesting is how you are experienced by others

[long whale]

Mm, doesn't work with interessiert/interessant. I'd say yes, Partizip II usually refers to a [finished] state (of something, not just a person: die gefahrenen Kilometer = kilometres driven) while Partizip I is mostly for things happening/moving, literally or metaphorically (die fahrenden Autos = the moving cars), things being done, or things to be done (die zu fahrenden Kilometer = the kilometres to be driven)

The problem with states vs appearing to other people is that "Die Frau ist aufgeregt (The woman is excited/nervous)" and "Die Frau ist aufregend" (She's an exciting/attractive woman) both work, in English and in German. They just don't mean the same thing, neither in German nor in English. 🤷

I really think it's mostly about an ongoing process (PI, -ing/-end) vs. a finished process (PII, -ed): die kochenden Eier (eggs being boiled), resp. kochend heiße Eier (boiling hot eggs) vs die gekochten Eier (boiled eggs). Or die verblühende Rose (wilting rose, rose losing its flowers/petals) vs. die verblühte Rose (wilted rose, rose having lost its bloom/petals)

[mellow nova]

Yeah maybe experience was a better word than appearance, but regardless now i think I kinda understand it funnily I don't think I really understood the technicality behind it in English either 💀

[undone glade]

sorry to take so long. Danke schön...!

[odd dawn]

Ist das richtig? Wie sagt man „to feel a language“ auf Deutsch?

„Die Brasilianer können nicht die portugiesische Sprache spüren.“

[mellow nova]

Wie sagt man das auf Englisch 😆

I haven't ever heard 'to feel a language'

[odd dawn]

Where are you from?

[mellow nova]

the USA

[delicate tiger]

"das Sprachgefühl"?

[mellow nova]

you mean like capture the feeling of Portuguese?

[odd dawn]

In a sentence, please.

[odd dawn]

I heard someone say something like "Feel the language!".

[mellow nova]

ohhh yeah it makes sense in that context

I don't think i would say "Brazilians can't feel Portuguese" tho

[odd dawn]

No, I said "Brazilians can't feel the Portuguese language".

[mellow nova]

but using dead cats word, perhaps
Die Brasilianer haben kein portugiesisches Sprachgefühl

yeah it's just not something I would really hear in my area personally but this is abt the german

[odd dawn]

Abt?

[mellow nova]

sorry, about

[odd dawn]

Thanks.

[cedar dome]

Ich bekomme einen Stadtplan

Does bekommen make akk or dat here

[swift bough]

btw I already answered that ^ question in #questions

[low venture]

Wow thank you so much that's really helpful

[shadow birch]

anyone know/have some german christmas activities we can do in class?

[half arch]

Wichteln, Schrottwichteln

[shadow birch]

Vielen dank!

[half arch]

Do you know what Wichteln is?

Or do you need an explanation?

[shadow birch]

I have no idea

[half arch]

Wichteln = Everyone writes their name on a note. Then the notes are shuffled and everyone draws a random name. You now need to give a gift to the person whos name is on the note you got

Maybe you can also write wishes on the note

for the presents

@shadow birch

Schrottwichteln is the same, but you are not allowed to write wishes on the note (only put your name on it) and, what ever you want to give away, has to be something broken/something that you have no use for

[proven sphinx]

It's called secret Santa in English.

[half arch]

oh ok

[proven sphinx]

So it's not really a German Christmas tradition per se. Well, it's also possible that it was imported into America from Germany, since so many Americans have German ancestry.

Even the Christmas tree has its origin in Germany.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/47/Martin_Luther’s_Christmas_Tree.jpg

Though it was pretty small and they put it on a table, apparently? LOL.

Fun fact: In Switzerland, it's almost always called "Christbaum" rather than "Weihnachtsbaum" as in Germany.

[quick crater]

so I was listening to a song where they used "Ich tut mir leid", rather than es. Would this still translate to "I'm sorry" or would it mean something like feeling pity for yourself?

[autumn marsh]

most likely is: "ich tue mir leid", as in: "i feel sorry for myself"

[rare jetty]

Ich tut mir leid isnt a correct sentence, maybe he/she sang about "Ich tue mir leid" which means smth like "Im sorry for myself"

[quick crater]

just checked and you're correct, thank you!!

[naive cedar]

hi

i had a question

[rare jetty]

you had??

https://tenor.com/view/rock-one-eyebrow-raised-rock-staring-the-rock-gif-22113367

[naive cedar]

nvm i found

https://tenor.com/view/rock-one-eyebrow-raised-rock-staring-the-rock-gif-22113367

[rare jetty]

[naive cedar]

https://tenor.com/view/dwayne-johnson-looking-confused-the-rock-gif-21978284

@rare jetty

yo

u know like

ich darf du darfst

ich kann du kannst

ich mag du magst

ich muss du musst

ich weiss du weisst

[rare jetty]

Ich darf, du darfst, er/sie/es darf, wir dürfen, ihr dürft, sie dürfen

yea

[naive cedar]

ich will du willst

[rare jetty]

What about it?

[naive cedar]

how'd i recognize em

[rare jetty]

Ask that question in #questions

[naive cedar]

LOL

this is #questions-2

[rare jetty]

maybe they can help you, I just know them (cuz im native) so I cant help you 😦

[naive cedar]

i only gotta learn the ich and du

but like

can u use em in a sentence

put du musst in a sentence

[rare jetty]

Du musst heute zur Schule

[naive cedar]

what does zur mean?

[rare jetty]

its a form of to

[naive cedar]

what does du mean?

[rare jetty]

du = you

[naive cedar]

du can be men and women right

[rare jetty]

Exactly

[naive cedar]

fuckkkk

french is in my head rn

cuz in french tu is only menly im pretty sure

[rare jetty]

Forget French, it´s weird xD

[naive cedar]

i dont like learning extra languages like german

they force me here to study em

this year i can chose what shit i wanna do

so im not gonna choose german or french lol

i already speak 3 languages fluently

[rare jetty]

Why not? Its useful

[naive cedar]

aint needa learn more that im not gonna use in my life

[naive cedar]

iaint wanna live in german

[rare jetty]

Ah ok

What languages do you speak?

[naive cedar]

dutch,turkish,english

i learned english from minecraft xd

[rare jetty]

Nice

Diamond Pickaxe

[naive cedar]

parents are turkish they migrated to the netherlands

[naive cedar]

funny

[rare jetty]

ikr

[naive cedar]

yo

i also got like a schreib test

i can use a dictionary xd

but only nl-du tho xd

snhit

i needa study rn its 10pm LOL

[fervent kernel]

Kann mir jemand Binsenweisheit und Floskel erklären?

[naive cedar]

yo i got a question

[proven sphinx]

A Binsenweisheit is like general knowledge. Something that everyone should already know.

A Floskel is like a phrase that is repeated time and time again, such as "Mit freundlichen Grüssen", which is seen all the time in exactly this form.

It's not like a proverb or an idiom. It's a specific phrase that serves an actual function, like to close a letter.

Or something like "Meine Damen und Herren". That would also be a Floskel.

[naive cedar]

yo

what is seiner?

[proven sphinx]

his

[naive cedar]

@proven sphinx

[proven sphinx]

It means "his"...

seiner = his

[naive cedar]

(the) mann kauft (her) oma (a) fernseher.

can u put the right words in the ( )

[proven sphinx]

Hey, wait a second...

We're not here to do your homework for you, buddy.

[naive cedar]

its not homework

i got a test tomr

why would i do homework 🤣

[naive cedar]

is it der mann kauft einen oma seiner fernseher

why is it seiner tho

[proven sphinx]

It's "his" here in any case. It wouldn't make sense to say "her" if it refers to Mann.

Do you speak French or something?

Maybe that's why you're confused.

[naive cedar]

thats what the example says!!!!!!! it says (haar) which means her

[naive cedar]

not fluently

[naive cedar]

REFERS TO OMA THE HER

[rare jetty]

haar = hair

[naive cedar]

(the) mann kauft (her) oma (a) fernseher.

[proven sphinx]

Yeah, that makes zero sense.

[naive cedar]

ye in german but in dutch haar means her

[rare jetty]

ah lol ok

[naive cedar]

and in my book they put that as a example

[mellow nova]

that would have to be in a very specific context

with pointing

[proven sphinx]

In what context could that possibly be correct?

[mellow nova]

couldn't you point at a man then point at an unrelated woman and say ihre Oma

[proven sphinx]

The man buys his grandmother a television.

That's what the sentence is supposed to say, right?

So I have no idea why it says "her" here. It doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

[naive cedar]

yes

[naive cedar]

it says the man buys her grandmother a television

[proven sphinx]

Hmm...

[naive cedar]

it works in dutch

lol

[proven sphinx]

It does? How?

[naive cedar]

i mean like its grammatically correct in dutch

[proven sphinx]

Doesn't Dutch make a difference between "his" and "her" or what?

Isn't it zijn vs haar?

[naive cedar]

anyways is this sentence correct der mann kauft seiner oma einen fernseher

[naive cedar]

yeee

both are correct

look

[proven sphinx]

De man koopt een televisie voor zijn oma.

That's what the sentence means.

zijn = seiner

[naive cedar]

why seiner

[proven sphinx]

I can't speak Dutch very well, but this just seems very misleading...

[naive cedar]

lol why

[proven sphinx]

It has to be "seiner" because it refers back to "der Mann", which is masculine.

[naive cedar]

doesnt it refer tho oma

why to der mann

[proven sphinx]

No.

That's how it always works in German.

[naive cedar]

hmm

[proven sphinx]

It always refers to what's before it.

[naive cedar]

so the einen refers to oma?

[fervent kernel]

so Dutch uses "zijn" for both male and female?

[naive cedar]

yes

[fervent kernel]

nice

[proven sphinx]

Dutch has something like common gender, which merges masculine and feminine.

[fervent kernel]

Some Yiddish dialects do it too

[naive cedar]

@proven sphinx

[proven sphinx]

No...

[proven sphinx]

It refers to Fernseher.

[naive cedar]

but it was before

why

[proven sphinx]

Only "sein/ihr" refers back to what came before.

[naive cedar]

ahhh

ok

[proven sphinx]

"einen" is an article. It always refers to what's after it.

[naive cedar]

you shouldve said this at the start!

[proven sphinx]

"sein/ihr" are so-called possessive pronouns.

[proven sphinx]

English works exactly the same way...

[naive cedar]

but why add the (er)

[proven sphinx]

The man buys his grandmother a television.

[naive cedar]

bro i didnt learn english in school idfk about how the rules are made up i learnt it by playing minecraft

[proven sphinx]

Right...

[naive cedar]

and i just know how to talk correct english xd

[proven sphinx]

It's because of the case. "seiner" is dative masculine singular.

[naive cedar]

i dont even know what a verb is LOL

is it der-gruppe or ein-gruppe

[proven sphinx]

It belongs to another group entirely.

[naive cedar]

ye thats what i thought

[proven sphinx]

I think I know what you mean by der-Gruppe and ein-Gruppe, though.

der arme Mann vs ein armer Mann

[naive cedar]

yes

[naive cedar]

explain

wait

this one?

[proven sphinx]

It's just a regular dative.

[naive cedar]

whats dative?

[proven sphinx]

It's a case. German has four cases. You have to learn them by heart.

They change depending on what position they have in the sentence.

Seine Großmutter ist alt.
Ich gebe seiner Großmutter ein Geschenk.
Ich gebe seinem Hund ein Leckerchen.
Sein Freund ist hier.

It always depends on gender and case.

[naive cedar]

could it be ihrer instead of seiner?

[proven sphinx]

Everything in German does.

[naive cedar]

wym

[proven sphinx]

It would then refer to some woman or girl that was previously mentioned.

Die Frau kauft ihrer Großmutter einen Fernseher.

The it would work because "die Frau" is feminine.

[naive cedar]

ihrer oma

not grossmutter

[proven sphinx]

Yeah, it's the same thing. They're synonyms.

[naive cedar]

even tho its the same

i never knew what it was having 2 grandpas and 2 grandmas lmao

when i was born my dads parents were dead already and my mothers parents were old af and lives in a diff country and i'd have friends who visited their grandmas and grandpas every week lmao

i was like yo i see em every year and u have 2?

xd

[proven sphinx]

I know how you feel. I only saw one of my grandmothers once when I was very young...

[naive cedar]

ye my grandmother died when i was like 8 or 9 idk

i only got a grandpa now

hes like in his 80-90s

[proven sphinx]

Anyway, I hope you know a bit more about German grammar now. It's kind of complicated, I know. Just take it easy.

[naive cedar]

anyways*

[proven sphinx]

If I wanted to explain German grammar in full, I'd still be here in 10 years.

[proven sphinx]

They're both correct. "anyways" is just more informal.

[naive cedar]

why

[naive cedar]

why

[proven sphinx]

Because it's fucking complicated, unfortunately.

[naive cedar]

anyways bye

ima go aswell

[proven sphinx]

Bye.

[naive cedar]

@proven sphinx

why is it like liebe anna and lieber markus?

[proven sphinx]

Anna is a woman, Markus is a man.
"liebe" is feminine singular, "lieber" is masculine singular

It would be "liebe Oma, lieber Opa" as well, for example.

[spring socket]

What about for non-binary people? Liebes?

[proven sphinx]

Yeah, I honestly have no idea how that works, but those forms are certainly not very widespread.

German is a gendered language. You can't just suddenly decide that "Oma" is neuter. It just isn't.

[mellow nova]

ask the nb person what they would prefer you use

[rough furnace]

Is everything correct?

[swift bough]

Yep looks good.

[autumn marsh]

but that seems to be the only thing, also "find" is regulary used in common speech so it's not wrong strictly speaking

but if you want to be 100% correct, use "finde"

[swift bough]

Yeah like for most of those the -e is optional in spoken language

But like I don’t think I’ve ever seen somebody write „höre auf“ before but theoretically that’s correct

[autumn marsh]

hm

[swift bough]

Even some of the things that are filled in already have no -e

[autumn marsh]

well i'm too lazy to check wether the german wiktionary is correct or not, but judging from what i can see there, it's only "finden" that is incorrect

adding the +e sounds poetic

So höre doch auf, meine Herz mit deiner Niedertracht zu traktieren, o holde Isolde!

[naive cedar]

yo

i had a question

Meine Freundin und ich haben in der Sporthalle zusammen (trainieren).

then i gotta put correct form of trainieren

which is trainiert

but why?

[autumn marsh]

Perfekt of trainieren

[naive cedar]

huh

Meine Freundin und ich haben in der Sporthalle zusammen (trainieren).

[autumn marsh]

yes, trainiert ist the perfect of trainieren, that is why it's trainiert

[naive cedar]

yes

i know its the correct form

but whyyyy

is it er sie es trainieren?

[autumn marsh]

i'm not quite sure what your question is 🤔

Ich habe trainiert

du hast trainiert

er hat trainiert

wir haben trainiert

[naive cedar]

huh

why

[autumn marsh]

ihr habt trainiert

sie haben trainiert

[naive cedar]

cuz of the haben?

[autumn marsh]

same as in english

i have trained, he has trained

[naive cedar]

i idnt ask about english

i asked about why does it end in t

[autumn marsh]

because it's the Perfekt of trainieren, as i already said 😄

[plucky marsh]

Das war der Perfect stimmt,

[naive cedar]

but it would be ich trainiere

and when u put habe its trainiert

[autumn marsh]

trainiere is Präsenz

[naive cedar]

so it cuz of the habe?

[naive cedar]

and what form is trainiert?

[autumn marsh]

^

[fervent kernel]

Partizip 2

[autumn marsh]

well, technically not wrong but in that case it's Perfekt

[fervent kernel]

You use partizip 2 with perfekt

[plucky marsh]

Mhmm

[fervent kernel]

We’re saying the same thing, actually. Perfekt is the tense and partizip 2 is the verb form used in that tense

[plucky marsh]

The past participle is used to form the perfect, past perfect, future II or passive

[autumn marsh]

it feels like you're mixing something here ...

[naive cedar]

these are the correct answers

but why

[plucky marsh]

He ment an another message

[naive cedar]

idk

[naive cedar]

these are the correct answers
but why

[plucky marsh]

Your answers are corret

[naive cedar]

but why

[fervent kernel]

As we both said, because of haben

[naive cedar]

there is no haben in the 2nd sentence

[autumn marsh]

cause there it is Präsenz

[fervent kernel]

“Mein vater” is singular

[naive cedar]

is mein vater ich du er sie es wir ihr or sie

what form

[plucky marsh]

I think it's Ich-Form because you talk about your father

[fervent kernel]

Er

[naive cedar]

what does er mean?

[fervent kernel]

Er means he

[naive cedar]

he vatr?

he vater?

[fallow ledge]

Theyre not, you use haben/sein + Partizip II to build perfekt

[plucky marsh]

"Er" stands for a masculine noun that denotes a person or thing that is already known

[naive cedar]

thanks so if i see haben i always put T at the end?

[fervent kernel]

No

[naive cedar]

kk thanks

[fervent kernel]

It depends on the verb

[naive cedar]

when would it not end with a t

[autumn marsh]

well you can also use the perfekt to build the partizip

[naive cedar]

give an example of an exception

[fervent kernel]

Essen

[naive cedar]

were talking about prasens not about perfekt plz stop

[fervent kernel]

For example

[naive cedar]

what will that be then

[fervent kernel]

Have gegessen

[naive cedar]

put haben with essen in a sentence

[fallow ledge]

Yup you can, at least what my grammar books say is that Partizip II is the name of the verb form, gearbeitet trainiert etc

[naive cedar]

can u say ich habe getrainiert

[fallow ledge]

No

[long whale]

No.

[fallow ledge]

Its trainiert

[naive cedar]

why not

why dont u put a ge

[plucky marsh]

there are exceptions

[fervent kernel]

Sorry i got confused, you can’t say ich habe getrainiert

[long whale]

For the same reason you can't say "I drinked". 🤷

[fallow ledge]

If a verb is of the form -ieren
Like trainieren, passieren, konzentrieren, then theres no ge- at the front

[naive cedar]

ahhhhhh

[fallow ledge]

Trainiert, passiert, konzentriert

[plucky marsh]

In german its called Ich habe getrunken

[naive cedar]

in dutch is gedronken

[fervent kernel]

There are many rules, in this case: if a verb ends with -ieren, it doesn’t have ge- in partizip 2

[naive cedar]

this is prasens

not partizip

[fervent kernel]

Haben is perfekt

Past, if that would help

[plucky marsh]

The prefix "ge" is omitted when forming the participle II (example navigieren => "navigiert", not "genavigiert"

[naive cedar]

k

im unmuted now i was muted for spam LOL

[plucky marsh]

Oof

[naive cedar]

when else is there a exception for partizip 2 when u dont put ge

[fervent kernel]

To make it clear, perfekt is the tense, and partizip is the konjugation. Just like how you use the second form of a verb in past simple and the third form in perfect tense in englih

[fervent kernel]

There are many exceptions

[naive cedar]

tell me some common ones

[fervent kernel]

You have to learn it with every berb you learn

[long whale]

Konjunktion? Did you mean Konjugation? 🤔

[fervent kernel]

Just like artikels with names

[fervent kernel]

Yes

[naive cedar]

name me some

that come in mind

[fervent kernel]

Fahren

[plucky marsh]

The past participle is usually formed with the prefix “ge” and by adding “-t” or “-et” (for regular verbs) or “-en” and other changes (for irregular verbs). In weak verbs, the root of the word is surrounded by -ge and the suffix -t:

lieben → geliebt.

[fervent kernel]

Becomes sein gefahren

Also not always haben

[naive cedar]

also sein?

wasnt there another one

[fervent kernel]

No

Haben and sein

[naive cedar]

and werden?

[autumn marsh]

yea i see that you guys are learning it that way, i learned it the other way round 😄

[naive cedar]

what about werden?

[fervent kernel]

That’s also a hilfsverb but not ysed for perfekt

[naive cedar]

kk

[autumn marsh]

(and your way might be the correct way, but they teach us a lot of weird stuff in school that doesn't help at all)

[fervent kernel]

It’s not about how you learn it. It also doesn’t matter if you know it or don’t since it doesn’t effect the use of language. But it can just help you understand the logic better

[naive cedar]

kk ima go on to the next grammar part thanks you guys for helping i will come back if i got any more questions ❤️

[autumn marsh]

well as a native, i do not need to understand the logic 🤷 might be the reason why german grammar in school for me rarely if ever was logical

after having learned other languages i finally understand german grammar

but that has nothing to do with how they taught us that stuff in school.

[naive cedar]

true i learned english without that part i learned it from listening and talking and experience xd

didnt learn it in school

[fervent kernel]

As i said, it’s not sonething important

[naive cedar]

didnt have anyone to tell me about past perfect lmao

now in english class they make me learn the logic

[fervent kernel]

What does it mean when something is Gang und Gebe

[long whale]

https://www.dwds.de/wb/gang und gäbe

Note spelling.

[ancient pulsar]

betrachten, ansehen, or anschauen?

in the context of the stranger looked at me

[hollow ether]

Either ansehen or anschauen

Betrachten would work too but I feel like it's more "observing" than just "looking at"

[ancient pulsar]

Vielen Dank

I also thought betrachten would imply a longer period of time

[long whale]

Yes. I think you might even say "betrachten" was more like "to scrutinize". :)@hollow ether

[latent wadi]

beobachten?

[long whale]

to watch?

[latent wadi]

can u beobachten someone

[long whale]

Of course.

People, processes, movement.

Not static objects. Einen Tisch beobachten

But birdwatching = die Vogelbeobachtung

@latent wadi

[latent wadi]

😱

[long whale]

Why? 👀

[latent wadi]

i just meant in his case

[long whale]

True. That would definitely be creepy.

[late bronze]

could someone help me pronounce german numbers over vc? thanks

[scenic drift]

(1) you may find #pronunciation more helpful
(2) if you join a VC usually someone will join...

[late bronze]

thanks! :)

[fervent kernel]

würde man schlautelefon statt smartphone ernsthaft sagen? hab das wort zum ersten mal gegegnet, klingt lustig

Nein, würde man eher nicht sagen 😅

okay, es war denn ein scherz

[dusty pendant]

Ist "Er hat mich zugehört." richtig?
It doesn't exactly sound right

[long whale]

It isn't. The verb is "jemandem zuhören" :)

[dusty pendant]

eh? care to explain a bit further?
I'm a tad confused

[tropic thistle]

the phrase Susana used is a shorthand to indicate that zuhören always takes a dative object

[dusty pendant]

ahhhh

is that the only reason it's wrong?

[long whale]

Yes.

Well, it's a pretty large reason to us. ;)

[dusty pendant]

of course, but I was just asking if there's anything else to it :D

[tropic thistle]

this is one of the cases where a literal translation of a dative-object verb actually works in English -- along the lines of er hat mir zugehört, he listened to me. But not every dative-object verb will be so easily translatable, e.g. helfen -- those you just sort of have to memorize

[dusty pendant]

yep yep I realised that when you said it, haha

more importantly, would anybody say something like that?
it seems like a silly question but I feel like I should ask, just in case

[long whale]

No, it's just that every German verb has a particular construction it requires (don't panic, most verbs just require plain Akkusativ), called Rektion. But it's not really something you can deduce, you need to learn the construction with the verb. :)

[dusty pendant]

yep, I know that much

I stupidly went off of a slavic language to see what case to put the object in, lol

[long whale]

Ehh - there is a dialect which confuses mir and mich, yes. Unfortunately, that doesn't make it any less wrong. :)

[dusty pendant]

no no I mean the verb and the whole sentence

would you hear that anywhere?

I've encountered that before
where something's just never used
so I wanna make sure

[long whale]

Would you ever hear "Er hat mich zugehört"? Yes, in the region where this dialect is spoken.

[tropic thistle]

die Frage ist eher, ob man "er hat mir zugehört" hören würde

which I think is yes, but Susana is the native speaker

[long whale]

Oh. Well, why not?

slightly puzzled

[fervent kernel]

wie sollte ich "i spend money" auf deutsch sagen

[dusty pendant]

don't question it, I'm stupid :D
thank you very much for the help, though!

[long whale]

Please try yourself, first. :)

[fervent kernel]

i did lol

[tropic thistle]

sometimes you find out things like "my textbook taught me that 'ausgezeichnet!' is a normal way to react to things positively and no one I've ever met says that" and then it makes you paranoid about everything that textbook said

(also that edition of the textbook was poorly proofread and so it told me that Butter was pronounced Mayonnaise)

[long whale]

Ah. Oh. I see. Thanks for clearing that up. - 😹 That is just beautiful! Did you actually fall for it?

I mean, even by English pronunciation standards, that would be... wild.

[tropic thistle]

thank goodness no, otherwise my first attempt to get myself a Butterbrot would've gone quite differently

[fervent kernel]

I remember there is a way to say someone is naked

Like Adam's clothes

Or something like that

Can somebody help?

[tropic thistle]

im Adamskostüm vielleicht?

[unique dune]

ja

[tropic thistle]

although it suffers from some of the usual deficits of personal-project lexica, you may find this useful since it offers an index by meaning (not the most user-friendly, but workable):

https://www.redensarten-index.de/

[dusty pendant]

how would you say something like "I'd like to have a short chat/conversation with you"?
I've tried but I'm quite unsure of it

my best attempt was "ich will eine kurze Unterhalten mit dir haben" but that might be very wrong

[fervent kernel]

I would say "Ich möchte kurz mit dir reden"

[dusty pendant]

I see!

Is kurz also an adverb?

[fervent kernel]

Yes I think in this context it is an adverb

But I am not sure

[dusty pendant]

hmm, I don't understand the möchte there, and the way the sentence is structured makes me feel as if it's modal?

[fervent kernel]

You can also use will

Ich will kurz mit dir reden

[dusty pendant]

I see, but what exactly is möchte?

[fervent kernel]

Möchte= I would like to

[dusty pendant]

gotcha, is it like the past tense of something?
like mögen?

[fervent kernel]

No the past tense of mögen is mochte

[fervent kernel]

It’s the Konjunktiv 2 of mögen

But möchte is present tense

[dusty pendant]

ahhh

I haven't actually used that verb before

thanks for clearing up the confusion :)

okay those answers have opened up more questions
I... don't understand the konjuktiv, can somebody please explain it or link some resources?

[tropic thistle]

https://resources.german.lsa.umich.edu/grammatik/konjunktiv2/ is one place to start

(click directly on "uses" to see some examples)

[dusty pendant]

ty! :)

[dusk blade]

How do you move to germany?

[long whale]

Mainly depends on where you're from. But you'd best ask about that in #archived-culture-study-visa

[night dagger]

germany has a skilled workers shortage, so it's a lot easier to emigrate from outside of the EU if you are a software developer or something. but yeah, #archived-culture-study-visa is best for this question.

[fervent kernel]

well they also require some workers for some dirty jobs if i am not mistaken

[night dagger]

kann sein. ich kenne nur den Fachkräftemangel 🤷

[fervent kernel]

behaupten die deutschen noch immer sie hätten nen ingineur mangel?

[night dagger]

und ja, DE braucht etwa wie 400k Einwanderer pro jahr

[fervent kernel]

hab gehört viele ingineure die in deutschland studiert haben wurden sogar abgelehnt

vielleicht suchen die nur die besten der besten oderso

[night dagger]

nein.

ich hab nen Artikel für dich, ein Moment

https://www.tagesschau.de/wirtschaft/konjunktur/migranten-scheele-arbeitsagentur-mangel-arbeitskraefte-101.html
@fervent kernel

[fervent kernel]

unerklärlich. Was machen die einheimischen?

[night dagger]

hä? sagt es wörtlich: Deutschland gehen die Arbeitskräfte aus

[fervent kernel]

Ja ich glaube das liegt an der überalterten bevölkerung

[night dagger]

sagt das auch, glaub ich

[fervent kernel]

früher gab es dieses problem nicht da menschen früher gestorben sind

jetzt leben die im schnitt 10 jahre länger

noch dazu gibt es so wenige junge leute

Deutsche wollen keine kinder mehr

wahrscheinlich auch deswegen weil es so teuer heutzutage kinder aufzuziehen

[night dagger]

es kommt darauf an

wir können darüber in #german-only reden, wenn du Lust hast

[fervent kernel]

also können sie das problem nur lösen indem sie die lücken mit ausländern füllen

ok