questions-2

[plush pelican]

Hammer's German Grammar talks about this a bit:

[icy flax]

Danke Dir, @plush pelican! Als Standard fange ich ab jetzt an, Hammer nachzuschlagen, bevor ich hier Frage stelle. (:
Dann ist es KII. Was mich nun verwirrt, ist dieses "also brauchen wir (...) einzuschalten". Da wird brauchen als Modalverb benutzt.

[plush pelican]

https://www.colanguage.com/double-infinitive-german

Es stellt sich heraus, "brauchen" ist ein Verb mit Ersatzinfinitiv.

Das bedeutet, unter anderem, dass man es mit einem Infinitivsatz ohne "zu" benutzt.

in Hammer's steht, dass es ein "semi-auxiliary verb" ist

Noch mehr 😮

[icy flax]

eyy, @plush pelican, ist das 7. Ausgabe, die du da vom Hammer hast?

[plush pelican]

11.3.1(a):

[vernal ermine]

Can anyone tell me what is ""renate"" in German? Bitte.

[long whale]

Doesn't seem to be an English word:

Unless you mean Renate, which is a woman's first name in German, in which case I will tell you once again: capitalization is important!

[vernal ermine]

I got that while doing exercise, what you think?

[long whale]

#questions-2 message

[vernal ermine]

Can I consider it as mobile number of some person?

Is there any mobile / telephone number with 6 digits in Deutschland?

@long whale So I write, Bitte geben Sie mir die Handy Nummer von Renate. Ja, Das ist 459837.

Am I right?

[delicate tiger]

landline, not mobile

[vernal ermine]

How can I replace that in this sentence? @delicate tiger

[delicate tiger]

"Festnetznummer"

[vernal ermine]

Danke.

[vernal ermine]

Bitte geben Sie mir den Apfel.
Bitte geben Sie den Apfel für mich.

Does these 2 sentences are same?

[plush pelican]

"Are these 2 sentences the same?"

And no, I believe the 2nd sentence doesn't work grammatically.
You cannot always substitute "für mich" for "mir".

[vernal ermine]

Why? Bro

[plush pelican]

🤷‍♂️ If you want to know "why" when asking questions about a language, you'd have to ask a linguist.

[vernal ermine]

@plush pelican how about the meaning? Is it fine.

[plush pelican]

Like I said, I believe the 2nd sentence is grammatically invalid

it doesn't work

Wait for a native to confirm this, but I'm about 80% sure it doesn't work

[solid thistle]

Bitte geben Sie den Apfel für mich.
Hier wird „für mich“ nicht als Dativobjekt, sondern als Präpositionalobjekt mit der Präposition „für“ verwendet.
„Für“ in Kombination mit Akkusativ (hier „mich“) wird typischerweise verwendet, um den Nutzen oder Zweck einer Aktion zu beschreiben, nicht den direkten Empfänger.
In diesem Kontext klingt es, als ob der Apfel für einen bestimmten Zweck oder für eine spätere Verwendung für Sie bestimmt ist, nicht dass Sie direkt der Empfänger des Apfels sind.

Also es klingt nicht schön und der Satz hat eine andere Bedeutung

[warped oriole]

Für mich ist in diesem Fall wie:
Bitte staubsaug für mich.
Bitte tu das für mich.
Bitte gib (ihm) den Apfel für mich.

Also es ist grammatisch richtig, aber normalerweise fehlt noch zu wem man den Apfel gibt.

[plush pelican]

Aber auf jeden Fall ist es nicht das, was er meint

[warped oriole]

Genau. Ist nicht gleich wie "mir"

[vernal ermine]

Vielen Dank❤

Does heirat and verheirat are same.

[solid thistle]

heiraten ist ein Verb, verheiratet ist ein Adjektiv

[vernal ermine]

If it like verheiraten, what will be difference?

[solid thistle]

Ich heirate in einer Woche, (Verb) Ich bin seit 4 Jahren verheiratet (Adjektiv)

[long whale]

jdn [mit jdm] verheiraten = to marry sb off [to sb]

[solid thistle]

heiraten = to marry sb, verheiratet = married

[plush pelican]

Er fragte, was ist der Unterschied, wenn man "verheiraten" als Verb benutzt.

[long whale]

That... not quite, I'd say. a) the usual verb for what the person officiating (priest, vicar, clerk/Standesbeamter) at a wedding ceremony does is "trauen" b) "jdn [mit jdm] verheiraten" tends to only crop up in the context of arranged (or even forced) marriages, i.e. when a father marries his daughter off [to somebody].

[plush pelican]

This is why I didn't answer earlier...

[plush pelican]

So wait, are you saying even the native German's explanation was off?

[long whale]

Precisely.

[plush pelican]

okay, I guess I'm deleting that, then 😅

[solid thistle]

Ja ich weiß, es wurde ja schon beantwortet und da verheiratet und verheiraten sehr ähnlich sind, macht es Sinn, es auch zu erklären

[plush pelican]

What about "sich verheiraten"?

sich mit jdm. verheiraten = jdn. heiraten?

[long whale]

That... might be technically possible, but it sounds so extremely unidiomatic to me, I'd basically say it's wrong. 🤷

[plush pelican]

https://www.dwds.de/wb/verheiraten

[long whale]

😄 I was going to add: you may find examples for that on DWDS, but...

[plush pelican]

So you're saying that even examples on DWDS may be so weird as to sound flat-out wrong? How can I trust DWDS? 😵‍💫

Wiktionary lists "In ihrem Leben hat sie sich bereits dreimal verheiratet, davon zweimal mit dem gleichen Mann."

Is that weird?

[long whale]

Well, if you look at the examples taken from literature/newspapers on DWDS, they all use a form of "verheiratet sein", except one which is about marrying off a girl.

[plush pelican]

What about the examples they themselves give?

[long whale]

IMO, it's not something people would choose to say. 🤷

[plush pelican]

er hat sich mit einer jungen Agronomin verheiratet
sie hat sich gut, wieder, schon zum dritten Male verheiratet

[long whale]

I said "technically possible", remember?

[plush pelican]

Okay, but like, if I don't have a German native handy, how am I supposed to tell which definitions are, "completely normal" and which ones are "technically possible..archaically"

[long whale]

IMO, these days, people would say "sie hat reich geheiratet" instead of "sie hat sich gut verheiratet".

[long whale]

By checking the curated quotes on DWDS, I'd say.

[plush pelican]

And apparently, I can't trust upvoted answers from GuteFrage...

[long whale]

Yeah, well, arranged marriages not being a thing among Germans, I'm not really surprised people agreed with the answer given on Gute Frage. I suppose for any normal conversation, #questions-2 message is basically all you need to know. 🤷

[plush pelican]

For reference, one of the answers on GuteFrage said

Das eine macht man selbst, das andere wird gemacht.

Ich heirate meinen Partner.

Der Standesbeamte verheiratet uns.

[long whale]

Well, that isn't wrong, is it?

[plush pelican]

You said you don't use "verheiraten" there, you use "trauen"

you said "verheiraten" was only used in the context of forced marriages

[long whale]

Look, I didn't say "no" when you posted that answer, did I? I said "not quite", and "the usual verb... is trauen" and "tends to only crop up" - I mean, how much more carefully can I actually word my answers before they become entirely incomprehensible? 🥹

[plush pelican]

You said their explanation was off

[long whale]

And you disagree?

[plush pelican]

I don't know what to believe right now

[plush pelican]

Like even here you were hitting the point about "verheiraten is related to arranged marriages, not other things"

If you could make up percentile numbers:

How often is the verb "trauen" used versus "verheiraten" for the priest/official marrying the couple?

[long whale]

Look, if they'd replaced Der Standesbeamte with "jemand", I probably wouldn't even have found it necessary to comment on this further. And it's not even really wrong with "der Standesbeamte", it's technically possible. It's just a really uncommon way of putting it.

[plush pelican]

so like, 95%/5%?

[long whale]

That's always really tricky, but I'd say it's closer to 99% - 100%.

[plush pelican]

That's high

So then why did the GuteFrage answers not mention, "you should probably never use this word?"

[long whale]

Yes. It is. Because the ceremony itself is called "die Trauung" in German.

"die Hochzeit" is the whole shebang.

[plush pelican]

Are there regional differences in trauen vs. verheiraten?

[long whale]

Because people are vaguely aware "verheiraten" exists as a transitive verb (apart from its normal Zustandspassiv). But if the question were "Would you rather say Der Standesbeamte/Pfarrer hat uns verheiratet or Der Standesbeamte/Pfarrer hat uns getraut?" I'm pretty sure people would go for the 2nd.

[long whale]

If there are, I'm not aware of them.

@plush pelican I don't use google, but if you do, perhaps you could just compare the number of results for "Er hat uns verheiratet" vs. "Er hat uns getraut"?

(Although I guess machine translations usually go for "jdn verheiraten")

[plush pelican]

"Er hat uns getraut" = 2,95 Millionen Ergebnisse
"Er hat uns verheiratet" = 32,2 Millionen

🥴

Wait, I'll do it with quotation marks for exact matches

""Er hat uns getraut"" = 41 Ergebnisse
""Er hat uns verheiratet"" = 7 Ergebnisse

[long whale]

😅 That's more like what I'd expected to see.

[plush pelican]

LOL

[long whale]

Sheesh...

I guess I'd better hand in my German passport. sigh

[warped oriole]

Ich sag lieber: Der Priester hat uns verheiratet.
Getraut hört sich so nach dem anderen Trauen an. Der Priester hat sich getraut uns zu trauen 😄

[plush pelican]

Woher kommst du?

Und ungefähr wie alt bist du? unter/über 30?

[warped oriole]

Ich denke vielleicht sagen jüngere Leute eher verheiraten anstatt trauen. Bin unter 30. Komme aus Deutschland.

[plush pelican]

😛 Ich meine aus welchem Bundesland, Digga

[warped oriole]

NRW diggah brudi ich schwöre wallah

[plush pelican]

Ich glaube, Frosty Bell ist das Gegenteil von dir, 🤔

Vielleicht gibt es doch regionale Unterschiede

[warped oriole]

Ja es gibt immer regionale Unterschiede.

[plush pelican]

Ich meine insbesondere bzgl. trauen oder verheiraten

[warped oriole]

Kann auch sein, dass ich nur komisch bin xD

[warped oriole]

Woher kommst du denn?

[plush pelican]

Ich bin Amerikaner, ich lerne Deutsch

[long whale]

Probably. 😹 I was wondering whether to add it might be a question of demography, particularly as to the answers you'd be likely to get on discord: lots of young, i.e. probably unmarried people, plus people who are pretty familiar with English -> they tend to think "marry" = "heiraten" -> He married us -> Er hat uns verheiratet. 🤷

Seems logical.

[plush pelican]

https://tenor.com/view/it-seems-logical-spock-star-trek-the-original-series-it-seems-like-the-best-course-of-answer-gif-23455291

Jetzt muss ich dringend ins Bett

Danke, ihr beide

[warped oriole]

Wie spät ist es denn bei dir?
Und gute Nacht.

[plush pelican]

3:40

[fervent kernel]

Klingt "Ich verherrliche Meinung, dass [...]" komisch, im Vergleich zu Alternativen wie "Meines Erachtens/meiner Meinung nach [...]"?

Ich habe gerade den Teil SA von TestDaF abgelegt and aus irgendeinem Grund so einen Satz verwendet, als ich wollte, meine eigene Meinung zu formulieren.

Also funktioniert das zumindest?

[fervent kernel]

I will blow my brains out lol, beloved dwds seems to suggest mayyybe, but I'm no feudal despot from 1700s.

[long whale]

*die Meinung. You usually idolize people, or at most ideologies, but not opinions (that does sound very, very weird to me). -> No. Maybe you were thinking of "Ich vertrete die Meinung, dass..."

*... als ich wollte, meine eigene Meinung zu formulieren wollte (OR ... um meine eigene Meinung wiederzugeben/zu formulieren).

[fervent kernel]

Is it ich hab Lust zum Redem/um zu Reden/zu reden?

[long whale]

"zu reden" is excellent, "zum Reden" is common in colloquial German. You cannot use "um... zu + inf." if the English version of your sentence doesn't work with "in order to" -> since "I feel like in order to talk" is basically nonsense, Ich hab[e] Lust um zu reden doesn't work at all.

[fervent kernel]

Danke

[fervent kernel]

Yup, the article is there of course, heat of the moment thing, and thanks for the corrections! I find that English gets in the way sometimes, not fun.

[outer edge]

hi why is it here "die Braunen" Schuhe?
im confused with the mix of die and braunen

[amber plover]

Hello ! I'm a beginner in deutsch, and I can't understand what my teacher wrote, can somebody help me please ?

it's just one word

[charred harbor]

It’s to do with the plurality. Basically, with a “die” (as a plural) + adjective the adjective takes an -en ending.

[outer edge]

and are the shoes in nominative?

[charred harbor]

die guten Kinder, die hohen Gebäude, die klugen Lehrer

Yes

[outer edge]

thanks

[charred harbor]

Just remember that it’s exclusive to plural form & exclusive to when there’s a definite article

Like “good kids” is “gute Kinder”, it only becomes “guten” when there’s a definite article

[tacit axle]

Oh I can't put the picture 😦

[long whale]

That's because you're new and have limited permissions. Read #role-directory and... wait. 🧁

[amber plover]

oh okey thanks

[gaunt heart]

currently i am learning german in school. do you guys think it would be smart to learn some german on my own? i am in German 1 right now and i am planning to go to German 5/AP

[plain umbra]

Yeah, definitely. It's important to learn on your own, even when you're taking a course.

[leaden cobalt]

can someone put the English and German names of each of the tenses side by side for me I keep getting them all mixed up (my tutor hasnt taught me the German names for the tenses) I know the conditional tense is praktikum II but that's it

[plain umbra]

English - German
future - Futur I
present - Präsens
simple past / preterite - Präteritum
present perfect - Perfekt
past perfect - Plusquamperfekt
future perfect - Futur II

[leaden cobalt]

vielen dank!!!!!

[plain umbra]

Those are the tenses. Did you also want the moods?

[leaden cobalt]

that would be wonderful too yes please!!!

[plain umbra]

indicative - Indikativ
imperative - Imperativ
conditional (past subjunctive) - Konjunktiv II
present subjunctive - Konjunktiv I

But note that we don't really use Konjunktiv I equivalent in English.

So people usually just say subjunctive in English and they mostly mean what German uses for Konjunktiv II.

You used the word Praktikum earlier. I think you got your vocab mixed up there.

Das Praktikum means an internship, like for a job.

[leaden cobalt]

Dankeschön!!!!!!!

that makes a lot of sense

must've gotten mixed up </3

[slender coral]

if we want to say : I always behave good with people.
Immer verhalte ich mich gut mit Leuten ?
what is wrong here?

[long whale]

It isn't really wrong, it's just that yours is a pretty literal translation, so, I kind of understand what you wanted to say, but it seems rather unidiomatic to me. For one thing, "sich verhalten" feels more like "to act" to me -> I'd preferably use "sich benehmen", and that's usually used with "jdm (Dativ) gegenüber" (towards sb.)

[fervent kernel]

Hi, i got a question with the word 'besonder', and that is, how do i know if using 'besonder', 'besondere', or 'besonders'??

[long whale]

besonders = especially

-> besonders teuer = especially/particularly expensive.

[fervent kernel]

and besondere?

[long whale]

= special -> normal Adjektivdeklination/adjective declension applies: besondere Pflanzen = special plants

[fervent kernel]

Danke c:

[frail harness]

Hi, so I know that if a noun ends in -e or -ung then its probably femenine.

But are there any similar indicators to help identify masculine and neuter nouns?

[long whale]

The -ung ending is a reliable indicator for feminine nouns, -e is not. For other such "indicators", check >faq gender patterns in #botchannel , but please be aware there is no way around memorizing everyday vocab with its gender (instead of: Hund = dog, learn: der Hund, die -e = dog/s, since German plurals are also unpredictable) - not if you ever wish to become halfway fluent. 🍪

[frail harness]

Thank you

Also I just want to confirm if this is correct.

Talking to one person formally -> Sie

Talking to several people formally -> Sie

Talking to several people casually -> ihr

Talking about several people -> sie (plural)

[long whale]

Yes.

[frail harness]

Thank you, and thanks again for showing me the bot commands those were really helpfull too

[clever grove]

what does wo do to word order

[plush pelican]

You need to be more specific

Do you mean when the sentence is a question?

"Wo gehst du hin?"

[clever grove]

I go to the canteen, where i eat

[plush pelican]

Ah, then you're talking about Relativsätze

Introduction to Relativsätze: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHtLxUax7Qc

Relativsätze with "wo": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z--oZ4_Cyfo

[zinc dock]

Warum ist die Antwort ihnen?

[plush pelican]

In the sentence "Er kauft ihnen Schokolade", there are two objects in that sentence.

"ihnen" and "Schokolade"

But you don't necessarily have every object in the same case

So what you likely learned was, "kaufen as verb means that the object is in accusative case"

[zinc dock]

Haha, ich habe die Antwort falsch gelesen, jetzt verstehe ich es

[plush pelican]

But do you know why it's in dative?

[zinc dock]

Ich meinte den zweiten Satz. Ich habe ihre Antwort in den Antworten falsch gelesen

[plush pelican]

okay

[zinc dock]

dankw

[outer edge]

hi
Manchmal kombiniert er sein Outfit auch mit einer grünen Mütze.
why is it "einer grünen Mütze"
I don't understand that declension

[steel patrol]

The noun “Mütze” is feminine (die Mütze), but in the Dative case die/eine becomes der/einer. And whatever adjective is in the Dative case, regardless of noun gender or number (singular or plural) always takes an -en ending.

When it’s used with an article

[outer edge]

oh thanks

[steel patrol]

One second, let me find a good image to illustrate this

[plush pelican]

I like this website's charts, which show examples of each declension:

https://www.germanveryeasy.com/adjective-declension#Mixed-declension

[sharp cradle]

vielen dank ! it really helped me alot, cuz its coming on my german test on Monday 😂

[prisma magnet]

Bitte verwenden sie "er/ihm/sein“ für meine pronomen.

Wondering what this would directly translate to? I want to let someone know on my pronouns and am not really picky but want to use proper grammar to say "please use x for my pronouns"? Basically I want to say I want to be referred to by male pronouns "he/him/his".

I constantly struggle as someone that uses they/them in English but I'd prefer he/him in German as there is nothing such for singular they/them

[sage canyon]

there is actually a "non-binary" pronoun that is roughly the equivalent of they/them. That's xier/xien/xiem (nom/acc/dative)

however, if you're more comfortable with using he/him in german, you could just say "Bitte verwenden Sie er/ihm pronomen."

[plush pelican]

The problem is, there are multiple suggested things for "they/them"...and absolutely none of them enjoy widespread support among the average German.

[whole portal]

The short and simple answer is that there is no concept of ungendered language that has any widespread acceptance, yeah

This is an evolving topic (as language is in general) but it's very slow moving

Multiple if not hundreds of concepts exist, some with more popularity but when I say 'popular' that means maybe 10 % support it and 3 % would actually use it

[long whale]

I guess you could say "Bitte verwenden Sie bei mir/für mich die maskulinen Pronomen ["er/ihm/sein“]."

[prisma magnet]

Ah ty all. I think it's insightful to know what the conversation is around this.

[dense forum]

Heya! I've got a question. In the sentence

Sie machen zusammen Hausaufgaben und dann gehen sie in die Disko.

Why is it gehen sie, and not sie gehen? Also, why is the s not capitalized?

[wet ridge]

Sie is not capitalised because it's plural. It's only capitalised if it's for formal speech

[dense forum]

Also, what uses are there to the word doch? I've seen it get used as "but", but I'm pretty sure there's other meanings to it

[dense forum]

But Sie can be plural as well, right? Or is it only when you're addressing multiple people formally?

[wet ridge]

You have sie (Plural) and Sie (formal). That's the only difference, the verb will still be in infinitive form, and you can tell from the context up (they did homework together, them, plural) that it refers to the plural

[dense forum]

Ahhh

Vielen Dank!

[grand adder]

Hallo, gibt es hier jemanden, der am Au-pair-Programm in Deutschland teilnimmt?

[wet ridge]

Okay so about the denn thing. There are certain conjunctions, that don’t start subclauses. After those conjunctions, the sentence structure is the normal subject - verb - object. There are five of those conjunctions, and you can memorize them with the word ADUSO. They are:
Aber
Denn
Und
Sondern
Oder

[dense forum]

But after the dann, the subject appears after the verb

Wait, OH

[wet ridge]

Oh wait sorry my bad, I didn't pay attention and just thought it's denn. What I told you is the exception!
All the rest, like wenn, als, ob, dass; with those the sentence structure is different. The rule here is verb is placed at the end of a sentence

[dense forum]

Ohhhhh

I see, thanks so much!

Okeyyy

[long whale]

That's not the way we see it, actually.

The thing is: "dann" takes Pos.1, followed by the verb, which is in Pos. 2, as per usual.

[dense forum]

I'm still confused as to what is position 1 and 2

[long whale]

Ich esse heute Abend Pizza.

Heute Abend esse ich Pizza.

Pizza esse ich heute Abend.

All of the above are equally valid (although not equally common, the third version would require special context)

The important thing is: the conjugated verb (= esse) must be in Pos. 2.

[dense forum]

OHHH, so like the order in which it's placed

[long whale]

Since "heute Abend" is like "this evening", i.e. you can't put anything between those 2 words, they kind of constitute a "unit", this takes Position 1.

And that's why we say Position 2, not "2nd word", see?

[dense forum]

Yep. Makes sense

It's easier to understand too

Thanks so much :)

[long whale]

So, V2 = [conjugated] verb in Position 2 is the most important rule for any main clause.

Of course, not all sentences are that simple. You get connecting words, conjunctions.

And for those, unfortunately, you have to memorize the word order of the clause they introduce.

[dense forum]

So what you're saying is, if it's not an exception, such as the sentence being preceded by a conjunction, the verb is always in P2, right?

[long whale]

Basically, yes.

(And of course, questions - ? - and exclamations - ! - have their own word order, but the change is rather similar to what happens in English, so, people tend not to notice so much. ;) )

[dense forum]

I see. Thanks!

Gonna write that down rn

[prisma magnet]

Wenn es nur nicht so kalt wäre... Verzeihen Sie meine Grammatik. Ich lerne immer noch Deutsch.

Is my grammar correct on this?

Starting to make sense of sentence structure and meine vs mein but still unsure

[plush pelican]

"meine" vs. "mein" has to do with the Grammatical Gender of Nouns.

Do you know that each noun has an inherent grammatical gender?

[pure crescent]

Grammar is correct, however it is not idiomatic. "immer noch" can't be used as "still" in this context. you would have to say something like "Mein Deutsch ist noch nicht perfekt" or something like that for the meaning you want to get across.

[plush pelican]

"immer noch" can't be used as "still" in this context

Why can't it be used?

Can you use just "noch"?

[ember lotus]

I think immer noch implies you’re learning right now or something along those lines

I’m not sure if it can be directly translated in English

[eternal karma]

ich vermisse, dass meine Muttersprache sprechen
ist grammatik richtig oder ?

[delicate tiger]

"Ich vermisse es, meine Muttersprache zu sprechen"

[plush pelican]

Deinem zweiten Satz fehlt ein Subjekt.

Du kannst einen Infinitivsatz haben, wie Hilarious vorgeschlagen hat. Infinitivsätze haben kein Subjekt (bzw. sie benutzen das Subjekt des vorigen Satzes)

Aber "dass" ist eine unterordnende Konjunktion. Die Nebensätze, die mit "dass" eingeleitet werden, brauchen ein Subjekt.

[cold iris]

Anyone familiar with the podcast Geschichten aus der Geschichte? Can anyone tell me what the person in the intro is saying? I think the first part is something like Wir lernen uns 'n bissel Geschichte.

Here is the website: https://www.geschichte.fm/. Just hit the Play button and after a couple seconds the intro will start. It might start a bit loud btw

[leaden cobalt]

there's only 2 past tenses in German, but I've learned 3? so confused

past perfect, simple past and pluperfect? so confused

[charred harbor]

The past perfect and pluperfect refer to the same thing

[gusty silo]

yeah what people mean by "there's 2" is that there's two of comparable or identical meaning

Ich ging and Ich bin gegangen are both regular past tenses, those are the ones people generally mean because it's important to learn the relation of these two.
the Plusquamperfekt Ich war gegangen is "I had left (by the time something else we're now talking about happened)"

so that refers to something that happened before our point of reference, whereas the other two are both for the actual points of reference that are in the past

confusion easily arises when mixing the terminologies of german and english, because english makes more distinctions in its verb tenses

"past perfect" in particular seems downright unwise to use for german, because the term that would be contrasted with - present perfect - is very misleading for any german tense

(because in german the thing we call our Perfekt is decidedly a past tense, even though it looks like it's formed the same way as the english present perfect - that may be where the confusion of terminology arose)

[autumn violet]

can "Prost" be used in a similar manner as "cheers" in English?

as in, can I say "prost" instead of "danke"?

[gusty silo]

nope

[autumn violet]

unfortunate; thanks

[vernal ermine]

What is ulrike?Bitte

[cold iris]

wiktionary says it's a female given name

[vernal ermine]

Danke

[timber yacht]

Original, österreichisch:
Lernen S' bisserl G'schichte, dann werd'n S' seh'n, Herr Reporter, wie das in Österreich sich damals im Parlament entwickelt hat.

Hochdeutsch:
Lernen Sie ein bisschen Geschichte, dann werden Sie sehen, Herr Reporter, wie sich das damals in Österreich im Parlament entwickelt hat.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6tGeluhi9I&t=50s

[cold iris]

ahhh. Danke!

[jade hawk]

Er hat das indirekt gesagt = Er hat das durch die Blume gesagt. Am I understanding this durch die blume idiom correctly? To say something in an indirect or roundabout way?

[vernal ermine]

Ihr Termin bei der Arbeitsagentur ist am Montag.

Am Montag ist ihr Termin bei der Arbeitsagentur.

Do both are same? And are both sentences are correct?

[long whale]

Yes, exactly. 💐 For finding out about that kind of thing, https://www.redensarten-index.de/suche.php?suchbegriff=durch+die+Blume+sagen&bool=relevanz&gawoe=an&sp0=rart_ou&sp1=rart_varianten_ou is excellent.

(Just don't go thinking everything you'll find in there is equally used. I'd say it's more for looking up idioms you've encountered "in the wild".)

[pure crescent]

Depends on what you mean: your appointment or her appointment? The first sentence could mean either. The second sentence is her only.

[vernal ermine]

Danke

[vernal ermine]

Does bis and zu comes nearby at the same time in a sentence? Bitte.

[plush pelican]

They can

[vernal ermine]

How bro? They both are prepositions. Which situation they come together?

[plush pelican]

It's best to think of "bis zu" as a single preposition that is used slightly differently than just "bis"

Let me link some stuff

https://hinative.com/questions/19194

So yeah, "bis zu" often translates as "up to" or "until"

[vernal ermine]

I feel bis is like till and bis zu is like upto.

[plush pelican]

I think you're right

[vernal ermine]

@plush pelican bis is Akkusativ preposition and zu is Dativ but what about bis zu? Which case it is?

[plush pelican]

The first screenshot from Hammer's actually talked about this:

In practice, bis is rarely used as a preposition in its own right. It is never followed by an article (or any determiner), and it is used on its own only with names, adverbs and some time phrases. **Otherwise it is followed by another preposition which determines the case of the following noun. **

The other preposition, the second preposition, determines the case, so "zu" for "bis zu"

[ember lotus]

Honestly I could never understand bis

Why is it always followed by a preposition

[plush pelican]

🤷‍♂️ It's just one of the "Higher Mysteries" of learning German, 😄

[ember lotus]

I’m putting it in the same category as pronouncing Ski I guess

[vernal ermine]

@plush pelican Vielen Dank ❤

I have this question for a long time. Consider a map with a person whose facing direction is not explained properly in the question. How will you know which direction the person is facing? Bitte you see there are 3 points in the map.

[plush pelican]

Remember, "question", not "doubt"

I've had this question for a long time.

[plush pelican]

I guess it would depend on the directions implying what direction they were starting out with, like are they going north or south on "Goethestraße"? Are they going east or west on "Schillerstraße"?

[plush pelican]

Or are you asking about how to give directions, if you don't know what direction they're starting with?

yeah, I mean, if they're the red dot, and they need to go down to the yellow dot, just use the cardinal directions: west, north, south, east.

"Fahren Sie auf der Schillerstraße nach Westen."
Drive west on Schillerstraße

[ember lotus]

Could you tell them to “face the mall” for example

Like “mit dem Gesicht zum Einkaufszentrum und dann umdrehen…”

[plush pelican]

Or you give the cardinal direction starting out, and then for the rest of the trip, you'll know which direction they're facing, because they are following your path.

"Fahren Sie auf der Goethestraße nach Süden, dann rechts abbiegen auf Schillerstraße. Touristeninformation wird auf deiner linken Seite sein."

[plush pelican]

If you ever want to work on directions, try setting Google Maps to German on your phone and then having the voice give you directions as you're driving, 😄

Note that the type of sentence used in directions like that is an unusual one, it's like the quasi-imperative infinitive.

[vernal ermine]

I give you an exercise. I want to know how you solve this. But I finished this exercise and checked but I made many mistakes. This made me think very much.

[plush pelican]

Oh, lord. Maybe this is good; I, too, need to work on this kind of stuff 😅

Did you use the word bank upside down on the bottom?

[vernal ermine]

Yes,that is the word you have to fill up.

[plush pelican]

Where is the "Parkstraße"?

[delicate tiger]

you can sort the words by category, there are only two nouns (and two spaces where they can fit)

[vernal ermine]

Parkhaus is the Parkstraße. Printing mistake is there in this book

[plush pelican]

interesting

[vernal ermine]

May I know whom you are telling?

[plush pelican]

Can you take a look at this and solve it? I'm so confused by the options given

This is what I got, but the directions don't make any sense to me.

[vernal ermine]

Your answers are correct

[fervent kernel]

Das Leben passiert. Ist’s zu spät, dich wieder zu ihm zu melden? Does this make sense?

[plush pelican]

Looking at that map, these directions don't seem to make sense 🤷‍♂️ I'm just putting in which words "fit" in which space

[vernal ermine]

Me too same problem.

@plush pelican How about 2 nd question. Have you tried that?

[plush pelican]

not yet

[plush pelican]

"Parkstraße" is NOT the Parkhaus

The areas with "......" are where you're giving directions to

Let me draw a map of the 2nd question

[vernal ermine]

This is also correct

[plush pelican]

Still don't get how #1 works, though

[vernal ermine]

@plush pelican here über comes in what meaning?

Gehen sie über die Schiller Straße in die Goethestraße.

[plush pelican]

🤔 "über den Kürschnerweg" is like "across it", I suppose

so perpendicular to traffic

"in die Goethestraße" = into the Goethestraße

[vernal ermine]

Does there any difference with über die Schiller Straße. It is not perpendicular like Kürschnerweg.

[plush pelican]

sure it is

car traffic goes on the blue lines, north/south für Kürschnerweg (whereas you are going east), and traffic goes east/west für Schillerstraße (whereas you are going north)

[delicate tiger]

"sich bei jemandem melden", what do you want to say?

[plush pelican]

@delicate tiger Can you look at the first picture here and compare it to the map? The instructions it gives don't seem to make sense.

The intended goal, as I understand it, is the street on the left with the "......" instead of a name.

Either the book is wrong, OR I've massively misunderstood something

[plush pelican]

Here is the map

[fervent kernel]

Life happens. Is it too late to reach out to him again?

[vernal ermine]

@plush pelican I have finished this exercise also . There are 3 questions to find out. But I made 1 mistake in that. I want to know the map drawing.

@plush pelican using same map bro

[plush pelican]

That sentence...did not make a ton of sense, man 😅

What are you saying?

[vernal ermine]

Now I edited

[plush pelican]

What did you select?

[vernal ermine]

You find that bro, that is good for you too .

I will tell the answer after that

Same dots like in previous questions.

[vernal ermine]

Which option you chose for 1st one.

@plush pelican

[plush pelican]

If you know the answers, then you know which option I chose

[vernal ermine]

F

[plush pelican]

yep

The instructions are kind of shit, to be honest

But then again, in real life instructions are likely to be shit, so that's realistic

[vernal ermine]

I didn't understand. Do German won't give instructions like that given in the book in real life?

[plush pelican]

What I mean is, the instructions given in (F) are incomplete. He doesn't actually tell you how to get there all the way, he just says, "at this point, you'll be able to see it, it's to the right of the train station"

But that is realistic, because in real life people will give you incomplete instructions

[vernal ermine]

Yes it stops at Schillerstraße.

[plush pelican]

What was #2?

?

[vernal ermine]

E

[plush pelican]

...that was a long pause

[vernal ermine]

No I just comparing your map. In that I have a doubt.

[plush pelican]

You know I'm not supposed to give you answers to homework, I'm only supposed to help you understand the answers

[vernal ermine]

Yes bro the next one is c for 3

[vernal ermine]

For the second one, über die marketplatz that means like going over perpendicular to marketplatz but your drawings is not going like that?

[plush pelican]

yeah, I mean the first line I drew is directly "über" die Salzstraße, but it turned out he meant a sort of diagonal "über" die Salzstraße

Again, the directions are not precise, but then again in real life directions are often not precise, so that's realistic

I figured out he meant diagonal because he says to go "am Museum vorbei", so you go past the Museum

You can only go past the museum by walking along the right side of it, so he must have meant to walk along there

[vernal ermine]

Third drawing is clearly understandable bro.

[plush pelican]

clearly understood

or you could say, "it's clearly understandable"/"easy to understand"

I still don't understand #1 from the first exercise

If you understand the Parkstraße is that "...." street and the bank is the "...." building on that street next to the Kirche, everything makes sense except for "und dann rechts in die Schillerstraße"

[vernal ermine]

Yes bro that big "........ " Is Parkstraße and small "..... " is Bank

@plush pelican

I drew the map

How is my map @plush pelican

[plush pelican]

But in the sentence, it says, "Da gehen Sie an der Ampel über den Kürschnerweg und dann rechts in die Schillerstraße"

So you cross Kürschnerweg, at which point it's not "right" into Schillerstraße, it's "straight" along Schillerstraße

[vernal ermine]

I think we have to upto to the traffic light that is on the Kürschnerweg and there we have to take right and go straight in the Schillerstraße and on our right side, first street is the Parkstraße. Am I correct?

[plush pelican]

yeah, but notice you said "go straight" not "go right"

There's 2 possibilities:

1. I don't fully understand the sentence.
2. The book has an error.

Both of these are very possible 😅

[vernal ermine]

@plush pelican Vielen Dank bro ❤

Wie komme ich in die Parkstraße? Is it correct to use preposition " in " in this place. Does some other preposition fits here well ? bro @plush pelican

[rocky forum]

Struggling a lot with giving the language meaning in my head, not specifically nouns but I feel like im more translating in my head rather than thinking in german, any tips to help with this? I cant tell if it's normal when you don't know huge amounts or if it'd holding me back

[dark raptor]

Hallo, Jake. Ich glaube dass du langsam gehen müsst. Denken 'sauber' ist sehr schwierig in unsere Muttersprache, eher in Deutsch.

About things you can do about it... I think it depends on your level. If you're baby stepping, watching videos, summarizing, reviewing them and interactive reading material (or being very engaged with any reading material) should be pretty fine. If you can manage conversations, put yourself out there. It's uncomfortable, but highly rewarding.

Frustration is part of the process!

[cold iris]

Read a lot; as much as you can. Eventually you'll find yourself understanding things even without easily/quickly being able to translate it to your native language.

[plain umbra]

It's not a big deal. Translating is fine. Not being able to think in German as a beginner is fine. The main thing that's important in that regard is to accept that English and German are different languages and German is not just English with different words. As long as you can get yourself to avoid word-for-word translating, that's the important thing.

Translating in general in your head is not a problem though.

If you think of the word "Hund" and it translates to "dog" in your head before you think of a dog, no problem, that kind of thing will develop with time.

[south zenith]

I second this, with reading its translating vs. the flow of reading, as you internalize it more and more youll want to build flow instead of stopping after every sentence to translate it and just move on to the next one

[rocky forum]

Thanks everyone! This gives me a lot of motivation actually xD

[vernal ermine]

Do "das" can be treated as plural? Bitte

[ember lotus]

Give an example

[vernal ermine]

Habt ihr noch mehr Fotos?
Nein, das_____ alle.

Answer here ist sind.

[ember lotus]

Yeah

Die Fotos

[vernal ermine]

How?

[ember lotus]

Das sind alle (Fotos)

Like “Those are all the photos.”

As you’re speaking about something in plural you need to put the verb in plural

It’s the same in English actually

You conjugate the photos, not the das

[vernal ermine]

Why we can't use die instead of das since it is plural?

[ember lotus]

Das means this

You could replace it with dies and the conjugation remains the same

If you use “die” instead you’d be using it as a closer meaning to “sie”

Like:
Diese Fotos gefallen mir nicht. Die sind alle von schlechter Qualität.

[vernal ermine]

Here in the sentence, die is coming in the meaning of sie(they). Am I right?

[fervent kernel]

yes

They are of bad quality

[vernal ermine]

Which one is better to use as they or those ?(in German?)

[ember lotus]

Yeah. It’s basically saying Die Fotos, but you drop the Fotos as it’s obvious what you’re talking about

Also the same way you can have plural with das and dies, you can also have plural with es

[fervent kernel]

Is there any German native?
How do German cases work?
How the German Declension works?

[fervent kernel]

Depends on the context I would say

[ember lotus]

Like “Es sind 15 Grad.”

The temperature is 15 degrees.

[vernal ermine]

How can we determine that according to context?

[ember lotus]

I’d say just don’t overthink it

Say what comes to mind, both can replace each other most of the time

[fervent kernel]

when you use "Diese Fotos" they're usually in front of you and you point at them

[ember lotus]

Das is more common

[fervent kernel]

Best advice

[vernal ermine]

Danke @ember lotus @fervent kernel

[fervent kernel]

You can't explain that in a few words 🤣🤣 it'll take a bit longer than that

[long whale]

Perhaps have a look at this thread: #1198051528351682671 message

There is also >faq cases in #botchannel

[vernal ermine]

Does immer and oft are same?

[midnight mica]

i might be wrong, but aren't they "always" and "often"? in that case sure they aren't the same

[fervent kernel]

immer means always and oft - often

[fervent kernel]

yes

[vernal ermine]

But what is the difference?

[fervent kernel]

hum ?

[jade hawk]

2 different words

always means something happens 100% of the time, often means it happens a lot but not 100% of the time

[fervent kernel]

exactly

[vernal ermine]

If I am telling that ich gehe immer mit meinem Fahrrad zu meiner Arbeit.

Is it right to use immer here?

[jade hawk]

yeah

and if you usually use a bicycle but sometimes you take the bus, then you'd use oft

[vernal ermine]

But how we can tell that I am using Fahrrad on all the days(100%) that I went to work.

[jade hawk]

because you said so

the other person wont know whether you are lying or not. You just said that you always use a bicycle to get to work

[vernal ermine]

@jade hawk Vielen Dank ❤

[charred harbor]

I think people would usually say “Ich fahre immer mit dem Fahrrad zur Arbeit”

[vernal ermine]

Danke

[obsidian bolt]

What is an Alabama-Frage?

[ember lotus]

Someone answer him!

[delicate tiger]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alabama_Claims ?

[ember lotus]

I wanna know too!

[obsidian bolt]

Found in "Around the World in 80 Days", and I was confused.

[ember lotus]

I think we need the opinion of an expert

@long whale what is an Alabama-Frage

[ember lotus]

Might be this actually

[obsidian bolt]

"Diese Frage der Reise um die Erde wurde mit ebensoviel Leidenschaft und Hitze erläutert, besprochen, zergliedert, als handle sich's um eine neue Alabama-Frage."

[ember lotus]

https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alabamafrage

Yeah I think that’s exactly it

[obsidian bolt]

"This question of traveling around the world was explained, discussed, dissected with as much passion and heat as if it were a new Alabama question."

That makes since, the book takes place in 1873.

[vernal ermine]

What is the best adjective for loose? Bitte. like in case of The pant is very loose because the size is very big.

[near folio]

vielleicht "locker": Die Hose ist zu locker

[vague rain]

Hallo, I am practicing adjectives in Dativ, this is a silly question but is using "alten" in both of these sentences correct?

ist das Foto von deiner alten Schuldirektorin?
ist das Foto von deinem alten Schuldirektor?

[vernal ermine]

Danke

[long whale]

Yes.

[vernal ermine]

@near folio where I can learn opposites in German.

[vague rain]

ok vielen dank 😅

[near folio]

Was meinst du damit? Antonyme?

[vernal ermine]

Yes, antonyms

[near folio]

https://www.buchstaben.com/gegenteil
wiktionary hat auch manchmal Antonyme für ein Wort.

[vernal ermine]

How to use it bro? Is it an App.?

[near folio]

wikitionary? Es ist wie eine Suchmaschine: https://de.wiktionary.org/wiki/locker

[vernal ermine]

Is it right to use any of these words as antonyms for locker @near folio

[celest scroll]

yes, for the various meanings of "locker"

[vernal ermine]

Danke

[whole portal]

lose is also a word

[stable kite]

Hi guys I need help I can’t really understand a video in German can someone explain it to me ?

[long whale]

Please don't ask the same question in more than one channel. 🍪

[vernal ermine]

Friends I got depressed with learning German language? What to do?

[fervent kernel]

Be happy

[plush pelican]

Do things involving the language that are more fun?

Try listening to Easy German Podcast or watching a movie in German or something. Idk how much you'll understand, but it'll be more fun than reviewing grammar.

[ember lotus]

Step 1 - try learning another new language
Step 2 - figure out that all languages suck and construct a plan to make a global Lingua Franca so that no one else has to suffer like you did
Step 3 - realise that’s too hard to come up with a new language and to impose it on every community in the world
Step 4 - go back to German because it’s considerably easier

[vernal ermine]

I feel like that I got stuck in a middle of the ocean.

[ember lotus]

Or uhh

Reject humanity become monke

[vernal ermine]

I gave up my job to learn this language and this also hurts me.

[ember lotus]

I was going to make a probably funny joke here but my moral compass is telling me that now is probably not the time to make jokes so I am simply going to go to sleep

Good luck figuring it out man, just don’t rush it and you should be fine

And remember that there are people out there who are learning French, so there is always a lower low

[barren aurora]

Haha yea i know buddy @vernal ermine it's hard but don't forget this learning a new language is a great thing for you so keep going with your head up. 🫡

[silver delta]

☠️

[neon summit]

Is it possible for me to have too many resources when german? Like using to many sources, like a few apps, and online resources? Is it best to pick one resource for reading, one for grammar, one for speaking etc? I think I am trying to figure out the most efficient way to spend my time learning and on what resources etc.

[charred harbor]

That’s what the intermediate stage is. Everyone’s been there. I’m still there right now, seeing words I don’t understand. I’d wager most of the people in this server are at this level.
The only difference between people who become fluent and people who don’t is perseverance.

[charred harbor]

In my opinion, yes

[plain umbra]

Not really. Of course you shouldn’t spend too much time thinking “Is this the best resource?” But generally it’s better to use a variety, not only because it gives you broader exposure but also because it stays more interesting. Of course feel free to go by personal preference instead.

Usually every resource lacks something and using a variety helps you cover the gaps.

[fervent kernel]

imagine you spent all your time learning the English grammar as a way to learn English.

it is not healthy.

grammar feels stupid across all languages.

You learnt English via (probably) films, songs, conversations.
And not from the Vocabulary lessons in Grammarschool.

[fervent kernel]

There are already too many resources.
You are just using them.

Even if you don't use the resources, you will still have access to them.
I try very hard to avoid this "shiny object syndrome".

All that matters is the baby steps you take today.
Specificity matters.

instead of
"Studying German"

I now
"practice Tenses"
"build 20 sentences"
"conversate for 30 minutes"

Do you see my point?

[plain umbra]

Actually avoiding grammar study is what causes problems for most learners in German.

[fervent kernel]

only focusing on Grammar study is also what makes people hate this language

don't look at it from our frame.
We have already learnt a lot, so we think it is necessary for them to learn the Grammar so meticulously.

[plain umbra]

It’s rare to see someone doing that though.

[fervent kernel]

I see otherwise.

Thing is it is a language.
just like our mother tongues.

We love and feel comfortable in our mother tongues because of the connection to the language.
that is equally (if not more) important than passing tests.

once we get our certifications, that passion does not leave.

[tight flame]

i lese "um...zu" und es bedeutet "in order to be". Ist dieser Satz richtig? I laufe 5 mal pro Woche, um meine Beine zu zunehmen.

[delicate tiger]

Letztes Wort passt nicht, z.B. "... um meine Beine zu stärken"

[vernal ermine]

In which situation we use denen? Bitte.

[near folio]

Als Relativpronomen, siehe hier: https://www.dartmouth.edu/~deutsch/Grammatik/WordOrder/relatives.html

[vernal ermine]

Danke

[long whale]

You have the right idea, yes. um... zu + infinitive = in order to

Ich laufe 5 Mal pro Woche, um meine Beine zu trainieren/kräftigen

zunehmen (intransitive verb = no Akkusativobjekt/direct object is possible) = to gain weight; to grow; to increase -> Ich nehme zu = I'm gaining weight - Der Mond nimmt zu = The moon is waxing; the moon is getting bigger

[vernal ermine]

What is the difference between manche and einige? Do both are same?

[tight flame]

danke. ill take note of intransitive verbs.

i have confusion when do i use zu + infinitive verb. i know this one is right. Ich mag am Wochende schwimmen. but sometimes (not this sentence in particular) i hear zu + infinitive verb and im not sure if it means the same.

or im just hearing a separable verb

[long whale]

It depends on the 1st verb (or expression), and I'm afraid you basically have to memorize at least some of it. Modal verbs (können/can, müssen/must, dürfen/may etc.) require an infinitive without "zu": ich kann/muss/darf schwimmen. Many other verbs, and expressions like "es fällt mir schwer/it is hard for me" require an infinitive with "zu": Es fällt mir schwer, Deutsch zu lernen (literally: It is hard for me to learn German)

Does that help?

[tight flame]

got it with the modal verbs not using zu for the infinitive. i will look into the second one and thank you for the explanation. its getting clearer bit by bit

[long whale]

As a side note, please don't use mögen + verb/activity. We basically use "mögen" with nouns or people: Ich mag Schokolade (I like chocolate). With verbs/activities, we use "gern": Ich esse gern Schokolade (I like eating chocolate), resp. Ich schwimme gern (I like swimming) @tight flame

[tight flame]

ahhh. i see. thanks for pointing that. id stick with the modal verbs in this case or use the alternatives (your samples)

[neon summit]

I gotchu thank you

[tight flame]

Kann ich Partizip II benutzen, wenn ich benutze "noch nicht"?** Ich habe das Problem noch nicht geantwortet**. Ist es besser, ob ich diesen Satz mache:** Ich antworte das Problem noch nicht.**

[long whale]

Basically, yes. However, your sentence doesn't work, because "antworten" is a) not the right verb and b) requires a different construction. Try again by using the verb "lösen", instead.

And no, your 2nd version doesn't work at all. If you used the right verb, you'd effectively be saying "I am not solving the problem yet", and that makes as little sense in German as it does in English.

[tight flame]

lösen. Ich habe das Problem noch nicht gelöst. got it. and noted on the second one, ill avoid making those when I use noch nicht. again. Much appreciated

[rugged chasm]

Hallo zusammen, ich suche einen Partner, mit dem ich Deutsch sprechen kann. Es wäre schön, jemanden zu finden, der gemeinsam mit mir die deutsche Sprache üben und verbessern möchte. Wenn du Interesse daran hast, freue ich mich darauf, von dir zu hören und gemeinsam unsere Deutschkenntnisse zu vertiefen.

lets get connected

[long whale]

If you post this in #1065443550004781067 , your chances of finding someone will be a lot higher (and also, the question channels are specifically for questions about the German language). 🧁

[balmy fable]

ich würde mit dir gerne üben, ich habe in 2 woche sprachprüfung

[rugged chasm]

haha goodluck

ooh viel glueck

lets get connected c1 b2 niveau

[balmy fable]

ja ich bin vielleicht b2

[rugged chasm]

sehr schoen

lass uns verbinden.. self learning haha correct me

Ich fände es schön, wenn wir Freunde werden könnten. Wenn du magst, können wir uns besser kennenlernen.

[balmy fable]

Ich möchte meine Enttäuschung über die schlechten Bedingungen ausdrücken.

is über the correct preposition?

[long whale]

Yes.

[balmy fable]

danke

is there some way to know when to use über, an, um etc, other than just remembering them for each verb? i always get them mixed

[long whale]

In this particular case, it's not so much a verb-preposition combination, but rather a noun-preposition combination: https://de.pons.com/übersetzung/englisch-deutsch/disappointment, that's why you'll find it under "disappointment", rather than under "express/ausdrücken". The most comprehensive dictionary for this is DWDS. Here, it's in the examples under 4.: https://www.dwds.de/wb/ausdrücken There's also a pretty good list in #botchannel, where you'd need to check ">faq Pferd's verb list"

[balmy fable]

thank you

[long whale]

Ah - I see I kind of misunderstood your question. No, if you don't know, you can look it up in a dictionary, but otherwise, you just need to memorize the combinations, I'm afraid. 🧁

You learn it with the noun: don't learn "dog = Hund", learn "dog = der Hund" (and if you're about it, add in the plural as well: die Hunde, since German plurals are irregular). For everyday vocab, there is really no other way. For some noun suffixes, there are rules/patterns, though: check >faq gender patterns in #botchannel 🧁

[ember lotus]

Honestly people should not worry thaat much about genders

I don’t know what the original question was but a thing I see pretty often is people briefly stopping to think about what gender the noun is

[unique prism]

whats an easy thema to speak about when doing a gesprach test

[ember lotus]

I think a native speaker would be more likely to notice the pause than the fact that you messed the gender of the word up

[ember lotus]

No one knows what areas of speech you’re competent in

[unique prism]

generally

[celest scroll]

the gender is important though for fluency

the pause is less grating to listen to than "die Tisch" or something :) but i'm not native

[long whale]

I think you can't have thought this through. I mean, yes, of course, I will understand you fine when you say sth like "Der Apfel schmeckt gut", whatever gender you give to the apple. But as soon as you start making longer sentences, e.g. with relative clauses, or just talking about something more extensively, mixing the genders becomes incredibly confusing for the listener.

[ember lotus]

I’m talking about people more towards the beginner side of things, not knowing genders can be a huge demotivator for some. In an ideal world you would (and should) learn both

But at the start (especially when trying to get confident at speaking) the most important thing is to put yourself out there

[long whale]

Mm... the thing is, we do get enough people here saying things like "Oh god, why didn't anyone tell me how important noun gender is?? I didn't bother to learn noun gender for a long time, because, you know, what for? And then, I had to go back and learn all of the words again, this time with the gender, and it drove me crazy!" 🤷

[ember lotus]

I guess my experience was the exact opposite

I overstressed on learning every word with the gender and got mad when I made even a tiny mistake

Eventually a learner should also start to develop feel for what the gender of a word should be according to how it sounds

You can’t memorise every word by heart

[balmy fable]

I really struggle with remembering this, cos I don't really learn words as such, i just learn them from exposure but I don't always remember the gender and yes, it's annoying and im always checking when I write something

Its the one thing that just hasn't clicked for me with German...

But it's helpful to remember the endings which usually go with each one, there's especially a lot of feminine endings such as -ung, -keit, -schaft

[long whale]

... said the person who only has to see a word once or twice to remember it forever... 😄

[cobalt forum]

i have a question can someone give me a simple explanation about this context?

Ich habe gehort, dass du ein Auto gekauft habest (sorry i don't have umlaut installed on my typing app yet)
is habest really a word that we can use and not hast?

still trying to grasp 1 or 2 things about germany and this confused me real bad

[long whale]

Yes, "du habest" exists - just check verbformen.de under Konjunktiv 1. However, Konjunktiv 1 is really only used in official communication where there are legal implications if statements are wrongly attributed to someone. Using K1 in everyday speech is really rare, except in some fixed expressions. In your example, you'd usually use "hast" or "hättest" instead of "habest". Does that help?

[ember lotus]

Sadly it’s not forever.. everyone forgets, I can just internalise it quicker, I still need to hear it from time to time to not forget the meaning

[cobalt forum]

oh i see thanks a lot mate that really helps

[clever grove]

is this correct german: ich darf nicht trage einen kreuz?

[delicate tiger]

see #questions , please ask only in one channel

[cunning nova]

Does this ganzen need a capital letter?

Viele Deutsche fahren in den Feiertagen oft hierhin, während die Niederländer*innen zum Einkaufen nach Deutschland gehen. Dadurch entsteht die Möglichkeit, dass Kinder, die im Osten der Niederlande aufwachsen, die deutsche Sprache besser beherrschen, als im Allgemeinen von ihrer Altersgruppe oder Stufe erwartet wird. Diese allgemeine Erwartung basiert nämlich auf den Niederlanden im ganzen, nicht nur auf dem Osten.

[plush pelican]

I think so, yeah

I mean, "im" = in + dem

for a prepositional phrase, you have to have an object of the preposition, aka a noun. And nouns need to be capitalized.

You can also look up "im Ganzen"

https://www.dict.cc/?s=im+ganzen

[cunning nova]

Ya, that’s what I thought, but my teacher corrected it like this without capital :’)

[plush pelican]

I think the exception would be if "ganzen" is an adjective and there's an omitted noun afterwards, which in this case would have to be masculine or neuter because of the "dem"

so maybe "im ganzen (Land)"?

idk

but at least to me, it seems like "im Ganzen" isn't wrong

Wait for a native speaker to confirm this, though

[fervent kernel]

Hello

Guys

Why the channels are not working

For me

[reef moss]

It is debated amongst academics whether or not it should be capitalized

[plush pelican]

I mean, do academics debate "im Großen und ganzen"?

[cunning nova]

So it’s better if I just leave it like that? Because my teacher corrected me like this and she will also give me my mark

[reef moss]

Coventionally, it's capitalized there, but general words that function as nouns, but are in the form of adjectives are debateable

[delicate tiger]

#getting-started

[tawdry pecan]

hat jemand etwas über passiv mit werden oder passiv mit sein

[plush pelican]

Hast du versucht das zu googeln?

[long whale]

English explanation: https://www.dartmouth.edu/~deutsch/Grammatik/Passive/Passiv.html

[tawdry pecan]

ich suche für übungen

[tawdry pecan]

dankeschön

[long whale]

Passiv mit sein = Zustandspassiv; Passiv mit werden = Vorgangspassiv -> #resources or google "Vorgangspassiv Zustandspassiv Übungen"

[plain umbra]

I think you are mixing things up here. Just because you personally were having issues with perfectionism doesn't mean that other people shouldn't learn genders. The perfectionism is a personal issue of your own, that has nothing to do with the topic itself. You can learn genders, learn every word's gender, and be pedantic about mistakes, without also taking a negative towards making mistakes. The problem is that you view a mistake as negative instead of just a learning experience. So instead of advising others "don't bother with gender" your real advice from your experience should be "don't get upset about making mistakes because that's a normal part of learning".

[leaden cobalt]

still struggling to find the line between the past tenses (simple past, past perfect, pluperfect) previous explanations were so helpful i'm just not very bright sometimes </3 its totally on me for not understanding

[plain umbra]

What's your current understanding?

[leaden cobalt]

simple past: ich ging
past perfect: ich bin gegangen
pluperfect: ich war gegangen

@plain umbra

but ive been told past perfect and pluperfect are the same tense which confuses me a bit

[plain umbra]

Ahh, okay.

Easy mistake.

Second one is called present perfect in English but Perfekt in German. Past perfect is Plusquamperfekt.

The "present" and "past" part of present/past perfect refers to the tense of the conjugated verb.

Ich bin -> Present tense
Ich war -> Simple past
Therefore:
Ich bin gegangen -> Present perfect
Ich war gegangen -> Past perfect

[leaden cobalt]

OHHH

I SEE

so i had them completely mixed up

[plain umbra]

Yeah, but like I said, it's an easy mistake. The English names are confusing if you don't know them.

[leaden cobalt]

thats what i'm trying to get my head around so i can learn them, exactly

Präteritum (simple past/imperfect): ich ging
Plusquamperfekt (past perfect): ich war gegangen

Präsens (present): ich gehe
Perfekt (present perfect): ich bin gegangen

Futur I (future): ich werde gehen
Futur II (future perfect) ich werde gegangen sein (haven't learned this one yet)

@plain umbra is this all correct? have i finally figured it all out?

[fervent kernel]

seems correct to me

[plain umbra]

Plusquamperfekt (past perfect/simple past)
Why do you have simple past in this one?

[fervent kernel]

They weren't sure, I suppose

[leaden cobalt]

OH I DIDNT MWAN TO PUT THAT THERE

fixed it

[plush pelican]

To be clear, Perfekt (Ich bin zur Schule gegangen) and Präteritum (Ich ging zur Schule) express the same meaning, they both refer to the past.

Perfekt is used more in speaking and some other stuff, Präteritum is used more for certain kinds of writing, books, news articles, etc. But they have the same actual meaning.

Plusquamperfekt (Ich war gegangen) expresses a "past before the past". So when you have 2 things that happened in the past, and one happened before the other, you can use Plusquamperfekt to talk about that.

Ich hatte den ganzen Tag gearbeitet. Danach bin ich einkaufen gegangen.
I had worked all day. Afterwards, I went shopping

[leaden cobalt]

oh that is so helpful THANK YOU VERY MUCHHHHHHHHH

[quiet meadow]

Anyone know where I can find German speakers in Melbourne, Australia?

[tight flame]

Kann ich das Wort "kaputt" auf alles benutzen? Ich spreche kaputtes Deutsch.

[charred harbor]

I think there people would usually use gebrochen

[tight flame]

i see. thanks for the info.

[unique anvil]

Kaputt is mostly for physical things
e.g. der kaputte Stuhl - the broken chair

[charred harbor]

Actually kaput is a word in English and we use it the same way

A computer or vending machine or a car could be kaput but you couldn’t say your German is kaput

It would always be “broken”

[tight flame]

gebrochens Deutsch

oder gebrochenes

im not familiar if it ends in -en

[charred harbor]

gebrochenes

[tight flame]

danke

[verbal girder]

#1065443550004781067

[quiet meadow]

Ah gotcha

[tired nimbus]

What's a good german learning app for free?

[timid vector]

anki will get you the furthest but you actually have to do more work with it. Seedlang is a good one that is already set up

[long whale]

Best check >faq Nicos Weg in #botchannel - it's the best one I know of. 🍪

[timid vector]

they have an app for that? 😮

[long whale]

Oh, oops! 😄 Not sure.

[distant sonnet]

Deutsche Welle does have an app (for Android at least) to learn German, but I don't know if Nicos Weg is also in it

[timid vector]

ope I was excited too haha still a good rec

[distant sonnet]

Oh I just checked: Nicos Weg is also in it

[vernal ermine]

What meaning does Da gives when used in the beginning of the sentence? Bitte.

[timid vector]

It can mean many things but if it's being used as a conjunction then it means "for", "because" or "since"

depends on the sentence though, might be referring to a location or smth

[vernal ermine]

Vielen Dank❤

[limpid trout]

I can't find any clear upfront exact answer to this question online, so...

does German differentiate between the (determiner) possessive adjective and the (substantive) possessive pronoun in any particular way?

i.e. english their vs. theirs, your vs. yours

[long whale]

Yes, it does.

[limpid trout]

how, specifically?

[long whale]

Compare. Poss. determiners: https://language-easy.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/German-Possessive-Pronouns.jpg

[limpid trout]

danke schön

it kinda declines like a strong adjective

[long whale]

@limpid trout Yikes! I see there are lots of errors in this! 🤕

Let me find a different one...

[limpid trout]

ough

[long whale]

Here. I just checked:

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/eb/e2/e6/ebe2e6741a89f223e4d53a7affd24f2f.jpg

[limpid trout]

which one is this? the substantive possessive pronoun?

[long whale]

The pronouns: mine, yours, theirs

[limpid trout]

ah, ty

[balmy fable]

Hello, i have a writing question. I wrote a text, but I'm not looking for corrections, im just interested in if someone who has done at least a B2 exam can advise me if it is roughly acceptable for a pass at B2 level. I'm aware of the many grammar mistakes, im working on it, but I'm so nervous
https://docs.google.com/document/d/12B48snqWURyNuGZlIhJSBNJ2kToqiuAC-yVMESdEqsk/edit?usp=sharing

[long whale]

I'd most warmly recommend familiarizing yourself with adjective declension (faq for this in #botchannel, tons of youtube videos available), then start practising. Another topic you ought to revise is type 2 conditional sentences/Konditionalsätze (Wenn ich Geld hätte, [dann] würde ich eine Weltreise machen). I can't tell you how B2 German exams are graded, but I feel you'd have a good chance of passing, probably with quite a good grade, if you didn't get adjective endings so consistently wrong. 🤷

[last valley]

ist das richtig Leute?

ich habe ihr angeboten, einen Ausflug nach... zu machen

[long whale]

It isn't wrong. However, I think you ought to put in "with her", if you're going to accompany her. ;)

[last valley]

dann wie sollte ich besser sagen?

[long whale]

I'd say just put the "with her" after the comma.

[last valley]

ich habe ihr angeboten mit, einen Ausflug nach... zu machen

hmm

[balmy fable]

Thank you, I feel better now that it's mainly just this 😅 I've been trying to understand them for the past hours and I think I made progress

[icy flax]

kein ersichtlicher Grund
Sagt man auch "kein sichtbarer/verständlicher Grund"?

[long whale]

Since a reason is rarely something you can actually see, using your 👀, I wouldn't use "sichtbar" here. 🤷

[plush pelican]

And yet, in English, we say, "I see" to say we understand, 😅

[long whale]

Yes, but we don't. 😄

[plush pelican]

What about the phrase, "etwas locker sehen"

That's figurative and not literal, right?

[icy flax]

Selbst nicht einmal "ich sehe es ein"? Ich hab mal sowas gehört, und im Kontext verstande ich es als "ich verstehe es".

[icy flax]

Danke dir immer noch (:

[near folio]

das bedeutet eher, dass jemand von etwas überzeugt wurde.

[long whale]

Ehh - the word I objected to wasn't "sehen", it was "sichtbar", visible, see-able. 🥹 For which DWDS gives the definition "mit den Augen wahrnehmbar".

[long whale]

Trotzdem?

[icy flax]

Oh jaa, besser als immer noch

Immer wenn ich etwas an dich schreibe und mir ein komisches Gefühl kommt, dass ich nicht ganz sicher von einem oder anderem Wort bin, besteht da ne 100% Wahrscheinlichkeit, es ist falsch und du wirst es mir bald zeigen hahaha

Wie lustig

Naaajaa (: gut dass es dich gibt (:

[fervent kernel]

Hi

[copper relic]

Hello, I have a question. I read this in a book, "Sehen die die Frau dort?", why there are two times "die" here and what does it mean?

[long whale]

You can use the def. article as a demonstrative pronoun (for things and people), although this happens mainly in speaking. Since the verb is in plural, "die" must mean "they; those ones". Can you now translate the sentence yourself?

[copper relic]

Thanks for explaining🙂, now I get it. So it should translate to, "Do they/you see that woman there?", right?

[long whale]

"you"?? "die" can never mean "you".

Do those ones see the woman over there?

[copper relic]

Ah okay, I see. Danke schön. 🙂

[vernal ermine]

Was ist los? Is this an expressions?

[ember lotus]

Yeah. What is happening?

[last valley]

Leute, was ist der Untershied zwichen Entscheidung und Beschließen ?

[thorn needle]

Entscheidung ist “decision” and beschließen is “to decide”

Or smth like that

[plush pelican]

Ich habe nie zuvor "Beschließen" als Nomen gesehen. Das ist ein Unterschied, 😄

[last valley]

wirklich? dann wie kann ich besser sagen (i decided todo it

[plush pelican]

well, there you're using "decide" as a verb, not "decision" the noun, my dude

[last valley]

wirklich? dann wie kann ich besser sagen (i decided todo it / ich habe beschlossen, es zu machen

[plush pelican]

For the verb, you can use:

• entscheiden
• beschließen
• entschließen

There's a video on the differences, but it's unfortunately in German: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7d0euIwCk4

I can try to translate the key points for you

[last valley]

thank you

but wich one is more casual?

[thorn needle]

Ich habe beschlossen is quite good

[plush pelican]

Probably "entscheiden", I think 🤔

[thorn needle]

Or “Ich habe den Beschluss gefasst x zu machen”

“Ich habe mich dazu entschieden/entschlossen x zu machen”

There are a lot of ways to say it

But beschlossen sounds the best imo

[last valley]

i have tolearn both of them

thank u guzs

[plush pelican]

I haven't even translated the video yet...

[thorn needle]

Do you translate videos?

I just watch them tbh

And then look up words I don’t understand

[plush pelican]

@last valley

• entscheiden - works in many situations
• sich entscheiden - the subject of the sentence makes a decision for themself
• beschließen - especially when a group discusses a topic and comes to a decision on it, appears frequently for official decisions
• sich entschließen - the subject makes a decision for themself, the decision was difficult/took a long time to make.

[plush pelican]

I'm trying to translate for an A-level dude

I just watch the video, I can understand it

[thorn needle]

Oh lol, I see

[last valley]

german has such a deep vocabluery like in english
anyway im gonna write two of them cuz its too much ahah
thanks for the explonation

[thorn needle]

English has wayyy more words If I’m not mistaken

[warped oriole]

How do I find compareable numbers? If I look for numbers every source says something different.

[plush pelican]

You can't really find good numbers, because at a certain point the question of "what counts as a word?" becomes ridiculous

The other day, I discovered that the noun version of "surmise" is "surmise". I've literally never heard that in my entire life. But it's in the dictionary. I doubt 90% of native speakers have ever heard of "surmise" as a noun. Is it a word? 🤷‍♂️

[warped oriole]

I didn't even hear surmise at all in the first place 😂
I always used assume. In which context you would use surmise?

[plush pelican]

When you want to sound fancy, 😄

[plain umbra]

Well, surmise and assume are different for sure.

[plush pelican]

🤔 Yeah, "surmise" is to tentatively draw a conclusion/presume, right?

[plain umbra]

Surmise is basically like something in between guess and deduce.

[plush pelican]

Whereas "assume" is more a priori, you're like taking something as true before considering other things?

[plain umbra]

Yeah.

And I think mostly you would use it in a novel or something.

[warped oriole]

My brain can't comprehent something between guess and deduce 🤯
Is it something inbetween or a mix of both?

[plain umbra]

"When the informant didn't call at 5pm as they had planned, the detective surmised that someone had caught on to their plans and intervened." This kind of scenario. There's no solid evidence to say your conclusion is true but it's not a totally random guess either.

[warped oriole]

Ok Dankeschön

[plush pelican]

"deduce" means that you are coming to a conclusion based on facts or something.

there's evidence leading you to that conclusion

a "guess" can be completely without evidence, though

[last valley]

Guys what's that main meaning of "Holen"? Get or bring?

[reef moss]

I would say "get", but it's more nuanced than that

https://www.dwds.de/wb/holen

[long whale]

"to fetch" ;)

https://tenor.com/view/playing-catch-fetch-leaves-tennis-ball-dog-gif-14331789

[lyric python]

hey was ist der Unterschied zwischen keineswegs und keinesfalls?

[charred harbor]

Native answer

https://forum.wordreference.com/threads/keinesw...

I'd say that there's no difference and that both words are indeed rather used in written language. In spoken language I would use "auf keinen Fall".

But it has to be said that both words are translated differently:
http://www.dict.cc/?s=keineswegs
http://www.dict.cc/?s=keinesfalls```

[long whale]

I'd say: not at all; certainly/definitely not vs. not under any/under no circumstances -> they both amount to an emphatic negative, but if you said "Ich hoffe, ich störe dich nicht" (I hope I'm not interrupting you), I'd reply by saying "Keineswegs", not "Keinesfalls". 🤷

[lyric python]

ahaa

so clear

thankiess

[lyric python]

is 'laut' should be used in genitiv when we mean 'according to'?

[long whale]

It's usually used with Genitiv, yes, but Dativ also works.

[tight flame]

how do i write "I forgot to buy food." Is there were i try to turn "to buy food" into a noun?

[delicate tiger]

no, but you need a comma
||"Ich habe vergessen, Essen zu kaufen."||

[tight flame]

ahh, klar

so this is where i can use zu + verb

[tough belfry]

Hat deine Band in der Garage gespielt, Garage is die Garage right, what makes it dative here

[delicate tiger]

faq two way prepositions

[stoic mauve]

Two-way prepositions

Two-way prepositions (or dual prepositions) are prepositions that govern the accusative or dative case. Ten prepositions have this property, namely:

an     auf      entlang    hinter    in
neben  über     unter      vor       zwischen

Generally, these prepositions are used with the accusative if they express a direction or change of position. They are used with the dative if they express location.

For example, the verb etw. an etw. hängen can be used to express both meanings depending on the intention:

Ich hänge das Bild an die Wand. (I am hanging the picture on the wall.)
Das Bild hängt an der Wand. (The picture is hanging on the wall.)

Expressing direction vs. location

It is important to note that the accusative should only be used if something has moved from one position to another. If movement has been indicated, but the location has not changed, then the dative should be used. For example,

Der Hund läuft in den Park. (The dog ran (from somewhere) into the park.)
Der Hund läuft im Park (herum). (The dog is running in the park.)

The dative is usually used with verbs of arriving, appearing and disappearing

Even though these verbs indicate direction, they are still used with dative rather than accusative.

Sie kamen am Bahnhof an.
Sie landeten auf dem Mond.
Das Pferd verschwand hinter dem Berg.

[limpid trout]

if [verb] müssen means "to have to [verb]"
and nicht [verb] müssen means "not to have to [verb]" or "to not have to [verb]"
then what is the preferred method of expressing "to have to not [verb]"?

also, random secondary question, how does one refer to a prior verb? as in, english's "to do that". is it just das machen/tun?

[plush pelican]

it's swapped between "müssen" and "dürfen"

müssen = you have an obligation
müssen nicht = you don't have an obligation, you don't have to do it.

dürfen = you are allowed to
dürfen nicht = you are not allowed to, you must not do it

[limpid trout]

danke schön!

[plush pelican]

Give me an example of "refer to a prior verb"?

Do you mean like.

"I have to work out"
"You don't have to do that."

Ich muss Sport machen.
Das musst du nicht tun.

or "Du musst das nicht tun."

[fervent kernel]

Was ist der Unterschied zwischen anbieten und bieten?

[long whale]

resp. Du brauchst das nicht zu tun ;)

[mental kite]

Anbieten an eine Person direkt, bieten generell

[fervent kernel]

Kann bieten hier stattdessen stehen

[long whale]

No.

[fervent kernel]

Erklär mir mehr bitte

[long whale]

"bieten" has various meanings/can be used in various contexts, but the only context I can think of where you could confuse it with "anbieten" is in the context of "offering amenities", where you'd basically translate "bieten" as "to have".

[fervent kernel]

Ah ok danke

[plush pelican]

Are you saying that's a more accurate translation of it?

Or just an alternative?

[long whale]

I'd say it depends on whether you feel there's a difference between no obligation, and no need to do sth. 🤷

[plush pelican]

Ah

so...which is which?

Das brauchst du nicht zu tun = you don't need to
Das musst du nicht tun = you have no obligation?

[echo sleet]

to me "muss" sounds like "you don't have to/I don't wanna force you but I'd appreciate it if you do"
and "brauchen" sounds like "nono I'm all good by myself" or "I did it myself so there's no need" or whatever

[long whale]

Apparently, it's officially considered an alternative: https://learngerman.dw.com/de/brauchen-zu-infinitiv/l-38573517/gr-39134268

[plush pelican]

Thanks for finding that. Then again, The DW Learn German stuff is more aimed at beginners. It might be that what you described is a like higher-level distinction that they simply don't make at the level that they're teaching.

Hmm, that page is from the B1 course 🤔

[long whale]

The thing is, I was taught "nicht müssen" didn't exist in Standard German, it was a purely regional/dialectal/colloquial thing. However, I'm very much aware you probably won't find m/any native speakers (anymore), who'd agree with this. 🤷

[plush pelican]

whaaa?

Hammer's 15.5.2(c) talks about negating müssen. The only thing is says about regionalisms is that using "nicht müssen" in the same sense as English uses it, e.g. "You mustn't park here" (a prohibition on action) is a northern regionalism.

[forest ravine]

Hier das Verb ist konjugiert durch das pronomen

Aber was ist dies konjugiert mit

[long whale]

I'm not sure what you're asking about? The verb (green) is always conjugated in accordance with the subject (blue).

der Film (er) = the film (it) -> verb in 3rd person singular: der Film beginnt = the film starts

[primal berry]

can anyone recommend good workbooks for learning German?

[uncut valve]

hey

can anyone help ELI5 me the dativ case

i read and checked a lot of sources about it

and i just cant uderstand it

[long whale]

But you do understand Akkusativ? What a direct object/Akkusativobjekt is? That it's basically the thing the verb is about? The thing receiving the action?

[uncut valve]

i understand it yes

[long whale]

Great. So, you can say "I'm giving/gifting a book", right? And you just get the Akkusativobjekt, the book, right?

[uncut valve]

ich gebe ein buech right?

[long whale]

Buch, yes. (Well, for "to gift", we usually use "schenken": ich schenke ein Buch, but never mind that now.)

[uncut valve]

the e was because of the omlet

[long whale]

So, you may want to add info about who you're giving the book to, right?

[uncut valve]

ok

yeah

[long whale]

Yeah. And that info is going to be in Dativ.

[uncut valve]

so i thought i got that untill i read about it and saw an example and got completely confused

[long whale]

Well, the thing is: you've already realized that English and German don't just map 1:1, right?

[uncut valve]

das buch (s) gehoert (v) dem Mann (o)

so why would it be dativ

[uncut valve]

wdym (im not a native english speaker)

[long whale]

Ah. Because what I told you above is the ELI5 version - so you understand what the principle of Dativ is about. And you say you do get that.

[long whale]

Never mind that, then. How was I to know?

[uncut valve]

because i thought i did but i dont get that example

[uncut valve]

you weren't

[long whale]

Fortunately, this verb works just the same as it does in English: The book belongs to the man.

You can't say "The book belongs the man". Why not? It's just the way English works.

[plain umbra]

There are 4 different situations where you have to learn a different rule for dative:

• verbs with 1 object
• verbs with 2 objects
• dative prepositions
• two-way prepositions

[uncut valve]

right

[plain umbra]

For verbs with 2 objects, you can use accusative for the direct object and dative for the indirect object, like explained above by Frosty Bell.

But with verbs with 1 objects, like gehören, you have to memorise it.

Usually a verb with one object has the object as accusative, but you have to memorise the few that use dative.

Like helfen for example.

Ich helfe dir.

You just memorise that helfen is with dative.

Here's a list: http://germanforenglishspeakers.com/reference/dative-verbs/

You can just pick the ones you want to learn and memorise those.

[uncut valve]

so that case was just because of the kind of verb?

[plain umbra]

Yep. Gehören just needs dative. There's not really a rule. You just memorise that.

[uncut valve]

i do know some words like mit will always be akkusativ

[wet quarry]

HALLO Guten Tag ich bin Nawar

[plain umbra]

Mit is always with dative.

[uncut valve]

omg thanks you so much

[plain umbra]

Those are dative prepositions. Dative prepositions you can just memorise as always going with dative.

[long whale]

Ehh - mit + DATIV

[uncut valve]

oh im dumb

[plain umbra]

But there are also prepositions called "two-way prepositions" and you have to learn a rule for that.

[wet quarry]

Iich bin neu hier

[uncut valve]

i meant datv

dativ

[wet quarry]

Ich bin ein deutschlernen

[uncut valve]

i will read about that

thank you a lot

[wet quarry]

Hallo

[plain umbra]

No problem. I hope it's helpful. Feel free to ask if you get stuck again. And feel free to take it slowly and just one step at a time.

[long whale]

Welcome to the server! Please note #questions is for questions about the German language (grammar, vocab, usage) ;)

[plain umbra]

Like it's fine to start with just the verbs and worry about prepositions later.

[uncut valve]

thank you

[uncut valve]

yeah i will settle that info well in my head and try and learn new info later

[wet quarry]

Keine Englisch bitte weil ich möchte meinem Deutsc erweitern

Hallo ich suche nach einen deutsch lerner einen tendompartner

[long whale]

-> #1065443550004781067

[long whale]

-> #beginner-german

or #german-only

[forest ravine]

ah danke

[rotund forge]

Hey there quick grammatical questions : in the sentence "Tun mir meine Arms weh." , why are the words in that order ? I came across that sentence and even tho i was able to understand it i'm still wondering why it wasn't "Meine Arms tun mir weh"

[long whale]

*Arme (is the plural of "der Arm", not Arms) - I have no idea. Maybe it wasn't written by a native speaker? Or maybe there is something missing? "Meine Arme tun mir weh" would indeed be the right word order if it's just "My arms hurt/are sore" 🍪

[rotund forge]

Alright, thanks for the answer (and the correction, don't know why i put an "s" there lol)

[warped oriole]

Was it after a comma?

[pure crescent]

Where did you come across this? Do you have a screenshot?

[fervent kernel]

5.1 has to be "die". Otherwise correct.

[sour yacht]

thanks

[fervent kernel]

np

[long whale]

It's really great you're helping people here, so, please don't think I want to critizise you, okay? It's just... surprisingly often, people are quite happy if you just point out their mistakes instead of providing the correct answer. ❤️

[fervent kernel]

Will do that in the future, my bad.

[sour yacht]

guys i tried making this but i find it hard can soemone correct this and help me understand

[long whale]

If you have a look at the 2nd sentence, what is your subject?

[charred harbor]

At first glance the thing jumping out at me most is that you’re using dative forms for “es gibt…” constructions when you should be using accusative.

[wispy relic]

whats the difference between bieten und anbieten?

[fervent kernel]

You can bid on sth "auf etwas bieten" or offer or sell sth "anbieten"

An alternate meaning for bieten would be "to have sth to offer" as in special skills or qualities

[sour yacht]

bank?

[long whale]

Please don't ask the same question in more than one channel. People won't realize a question has been answered/discussed elsewhere -> waste of time and effort. ;)

[long whale]

"in front of every bank" is the subject? You sure?

[sour yacht]

Oh its you Suzanne how are you its been a while. and i think its geldautomat

[long whale]

@fervent kernel Heyyy - not your fault! 😽

[charred harbor]

I looked through the list and underlined all the ones that I think need changes:

[sour yacht]

okay thanks i wll remake them

[long whale]

Thanks, I'm fine. ;) Yes, correct.

And the subject is in which case?

[sour yacht]

akkusativ?

[charred harbor]

No. Akkusativ is mostly for direct objects.

[sour yacht]

even if the subject is at the end?

[long whale]

The subject is the one the verb is conjugated for. As in "Ich liebe dich"

[long whale]

That doesn't have anything to do with it. German word order is not SVO, it's V2 - the conjugated verb must be in 2nd position (as it is). The rest is mostly flexible. ;)

[sour yacht]

okay thanks for the tips ima redo it and see

[long whale]

@sour yacht Perhaps have a look at #questions message to make sure you chose the right case for the preposition. ;)

[vernal ermine]

Da ist im Moment niemand da. Does this sentence correct?

Can anybody tell me why 2 da were used here?

[delicate tiger]

"Dort ist im Moment niemand anwesend."

[vernal ermine]

I can't understand you.

[delicate tiger]

I replaced them with synonyms

[vernal ermine]

But why you used anwesend there? Can I know it?

@delicate tiger I think if nichts is used. We don't need anwesend. Am I right ?

[wispy relic]

sure

[delicate tiger]

"nichts" doesn't work

[vernal ermine]

How hilari?

I think 2nd Da comes in the meaning of present that we usually use in English for denoting the presence of a person. What you think?

Dankeschön @delicate tiger

[ember lotus]

dasein is a verb i think and it means “to be present” or “to be there”

It’s a separable verb so the da goes to the end

[vernal ermine]

Thanks

[balmy fable]

hello, which is more correct
einen Bereich studieren
oder
in einem Bereich studieren

[long whale]

I think it's usually "ein Fach studieren"...

[balmy fable]

what about when its referring to the field of a degree at university?

[long whale]

I'm not quite sure what you mean? "studieren" is used exclusively for studying at a university.

[balmy fable]

i mean when you want to say that you study in a certain field

[long whale]

Do research, you mean?

[balmy fable]

this was the original sentence:
Ich habe viele Freunde an der Universität kennengelernt. Ich glaube, dass es leicht ist, weil alle ein gemeinsames Interesse haben, nämlich der Bereich, in dem wir studieren.

[long whale]

... nämlich das Fach, das wir studieren (unless you don't all study medicine, for example?)

[delicate tiger]

"...nämlich unseren Studiengang."

[balmy fable]

ok danke

[thin crescent]

What's the difference between "Wie geht es dir" and "Wie geht's"?

[fervent kernel]

"Wie geht es dir" is more formal/polite.

"Wie geht's?" is the casual shortened form.

[thin crescent]

Danke!

[fervent kernel]

Always a pleasure.

[distant bison]

Es gibt auch andere Redensarten wie z.B. wie geht's wie steht's und alles fit im Schritt

[eternal river]

hey

where did you get this test

ı really need it too

could you help me please

[fervent kernel]

What do you need help with? For general advice, you can use '>faq homework' in the botchannel

[sour yacht]

its a private site thingy so you cant get these sorry

[long whale]

This ought to help you find the corresponding indef. article: https://deutschlernerblog.de/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/Adjektivdeklination_alle_Deklinationstypen_in_einer_Tabelle.png

[sour yacht]

thank you as always Susana

[long whale]

Apart from the 2 you left blank, I can see only 1 error: 4th line from the bottom: Sie ist __ Bahn, die an... -> "ein" only works for masc. and neuter nouns, not for "Bahn"... @sour yacht

[sour yacht]

so its eine

[sour yacht]

🤗 👍

[drifting plume]

lol its private ??? 😄 i thought people here would help each other

[verbal girder]

maybe it's on his school's website

[pearl knot]

i was doing this listening exercise and i answered the question in the pop up screen 20. does it say in the highlighted area on the text she was just turning 21 at the time? if so wouldnt it be still she being 20 at that time?

[autumn marsh]

well she says that she just turned 21 in the moment they are talking, yes, but that's like ... a mistake that might happen, i guess

she should be saying: "ich war gerade 21 geworden", but from context it's clear i think

like, she says: i was 20 - nope, wrong, 21!

but yea grammatically it's a mess 😅

tl;dr: the message she's giving doesn't match the grammar, but i feel from context it's kinda clear, isn't it? it's just a mistake that you'll often see in spoken german, as we're so used to only using Präsenz + Perfekt

[pearl knot]

thank you @autumn marsh

[tight flame]

Wie schreibe ich "It has been a long time."? Es war eine lange Zeit oder Es hatte eine lange Zeit?

[pure crescent]

What do you think it should be? 🙂

[tight flame]

i believe the second one if its a direct translation, but there are grey areas in that regard

[pure crescent]

Well, why do you use "has been" in English here? Because it's present perfect, if I'm not mistaken? So if you wanna translate it, you'd want to use the German tense that corresponds to the present perfect in English, and then form the sentence based on how it works.

[tight flame]

Es ist eine lange Zeit geworden.

[pure crescent]

Perfekt isn't a bad choice, that's true.

Well, unfortunately neither of your original ideas was correct. It has been a long time = Es ist lange her[, dass X passierte/passiert ist.]

[tight flame]

ach so. i missed the whole thing. thanks for letting me think a bunch. I need a lot of those.

[vernal ermine]

Friends, In which condition, we use indefinite pronoun einer, eins, eine, eine?

[plush pelican]

When you say "one of the X"
One of the dogs

Er ist einer der Hunde.
He is one of the dogs.

Ich helfe einem der Hunde.
I help one of the dogs.

Note: "der Hunde" is Genitive. But "einer" takes the case a noun would in the same situation.

Er ist ein Hund
Ich helfe einem Hund.

You also use "einer/eins/eine" when specifying like:

Which animal is a dog?
Max is one. (Points to a dog named Max)

"Welches Tier ist ein Hund?
Max ist einer."

[vernal ermine]

Thanks bro.

[vernal ermine]

I didn't understand this one bro @plush pelican

[plush pelican]

Which part? All of it?

This might help show it better:

https://www.germanveryeasy.com/pronouns#Indefinite-Pronouns

[plush pelican]

Did you read the full Google Doc? She talks about 2 versions of endings, "soft" endings and "hard" endings

She says all of those pronouns take the "hard" endings, and later gives the chart for hard:

[vernal ermine]

Yes that also I want to ask you.

[plush pelican]

Hast du einen Bleistift? (der Bleistift)
Do you have a pencil?

Ich habe diesen.
I have this one.

Note "diesen"

Matching with (masculine, accusative) = -en

Wirst du den Männern helfen?
Will you help the men?

Ich helfe schon diesem.
I'm already helping this one.

Jeder spielt Fußball.
Everyone plays football.

Ich helfe jedem, der Hilfe braucht.
I help everyone who needs help.

I gotta go to bed 😴

[vernal ermine]

@plush pelican thanks bro. I have some questions also . You sleep well.

[balmy fable]

Is it ok to say Lebensraum in the context of an animal habitat, or best to use a different word? what is usually used?

[long whale]

For animals, "der Lebensraum" is the word you need, yes. ("das Habitat" also works, at least if your readers are biologists ;) )

[balmy fable]

thanks

[last valley]

hey
is it ok? er hat mich wegen Geld betrogen?

[autumn marsh]

https://www.dwds.de/wb/wegen#d-1-1-2

wegen always demands genitiv

"wegen Geldes" sounds a little weird/is an unnatural collaction, the more natural collocation is "wegen des Geldes"

[frozen trail]

Hallo zusammen könnten Sie mir bitte behilflich sein was die Behörde hier meint?

[autumn marsh]

von wann bis wann du wo gearbeitet hast

innerhalb der letzten 5 jahre

gerechnet ab dem letzten zeitpunkt einer Antragsstellung

zb: arbeitslos gemeldet (mit antrag) bis 2020, dann gearbeitet ab april 2020 bis dezemer 2023, neuer antrag ab januar 2024