quest-optimization

[gusty flame]

HEVC1 codec, 90fps, that's about all I set in virtual desktop

[sharp lodge]

Make sure to Use a Ethernet cable on your pc, plug a usb antenna in your motherboard. If you already have all this and your experience in vr is still bad well, just use link.

[sterile wigeon]

Coxwifi gave a modem I use that emits wifi but its dogshit could that be the culprit

My pc is connected to it by ethernet but the modem also emits wifi

[sharp lodge]

There you have your issue

Wait hold on let me read again

[sterile wigeon]

Computer is connected via ethernet to my base modem i have n router

[sharp lodge]

Mhmm

[sterile wigeon]

Base modem also works as a dog shit wifi

[sharp lodge]

If is a bad WiFi then that’s the problem

[honest fern]

Join meshes in blender?

[long venture]

atlas your textures too so you can bring down your materials used if you're using more then one across all those seperated meshes

[young citrus]

Yeah but how?

This isnt something I've had to deal with before.

I dont know how to do that

[long venture]

both would be done in blender, joining meshes is as simple as selecting the two meshes and hitting CTRL+J, atlasing however doesnt have a simple built in trick to my knowledge though theres addon's that make it quicker like https://github.com/Grim-es/material-combiner-addon

[open plinth]

It shouldn't stop your upload, if that helps? Lol

[young citrus]

yeah I got it set lol

I had my physbones all good and

now

my tail keeps dissapearing

I'm gonna keep tweaking the avatar tomorrow

[compact olive]

In Blender, SHIFT-Clicking object will allow you to select multiple objects.

after doing that, ensure that the last object you clicked on has a yellow outline and press CTRL-J to join. 🙂

[ashen valve]

does anyone know why the current sdk is doing this

[gusty flame]

that's normal - you're on the very edge of the 10MB border and it's rounding funny

[ashen valve]

i mean not rly, ive updated this exact same project for quest so many times without issue

ive made like no changes

if anything the number should go DOWN because i made the textures smaller

[gusty flame]

well this time you're just past the limt

[ashen valve]

this isnt rly helping me

[gusty flame]

the answer either way is to reduce the size of your avatar

[ashen valve]

https://tenor.com/view/ishowspeed-speed-reaction-try-not-to-laugh-bruh-speed-gif-15909423665204532371

[honest fern]

Stop trying to aim for the bare minimum

You shouldnt even be getting close to 10mb

[ashen valve]

damn dude i didnt say anything to warrant an attitude

chill brah

[honest fern]

Guess telling you what you shouldnt do is apparently an attitude

[ashen valve]

ok user diven

itll be okay

[gusty flame]

makes popcorn

[honest fern]

You got told how to fix it and apparent thats an attitude lmao

You need to actually go below 10mb not try to get specifically 10mb

[ashen valve]

ok dude

[gusty flame]

I bet if you hit 10.0000000 it'd be fine 🙂

... or is it 9.999999999?

[honest fern]

Anything thats above 10 even if its a singular bit hits that issue

[gusty flame]

yeah - I'm curious what the actual threshold is - is it <= 10 or < 10?

[honest fern]

It needs to be exactly 10

[gusty flame]

doesn't really matter though, I'm not at this edge.

[honest fern]

Like exactly

Which it why you should aim for under 10 not 10

Although for a war hammer fan its not surprising they take anything that goes against them even if its just simply giving advice its now suddenly as if its a threat to their entire existence

[compact olive]

I saw a cow once.

[pulsar oasis]

I fear that when I get a gaming laptop and get unity I’ll have these issues, problems too, but there’s ppl here for a reason too tell you yes or no and what too do and what not too do and how to fix stuff and there’s also always tuts (tutorials) but sometimes ppl aren’t visual learners (me) so explaining is better and smart ppl are better at it, I don’t know why I’m yapping about this, i just fear about it cause i enjoy having my own avatar and such Lolssss

[olive grail]

I personally recommend a PC for unity, mainly because it runs a lot smoother.

[pulsar oasis]

Yes yes

I’ve heard that sometimes it crashes

[gusty flame]

I often run Unity on a gaming laptop, it works just fine.

[echo shore]

I run it on a crappy laptop and it works too haha

so does blender

[gusty flame]

same. Running both and also a browser I tend to run out of RAM at only 32, but that's no surprise.

I'm sitting on the couch, sipping coffee, with Unity open on the laptop right now 🙂

[gusty flame]

@last remnant there are lots of factors here, but one common one is that blendshapes take up lots of space, so only have the ones you actually need.

[last remnant]

can you put that in goo goo ga ga terms for me? I'm so sorry 😭

This is my first avatar and I'm having alot of trouble please be patient with me, so sorry

[gusty flame]

again, there's LOTS of discussion here and tutorials, I can't hold your hand on this, I can just nudge you in the right direction.

[last remnant]

bruh

this is me coming here as a last resort, I've spent 3 days trying to teach myself ts with no help and just what I've seen online, so If you could hold my hand a little bit that would be great

[gusty flame]

really can't, I'm working on other things, sorry.

maybe others can

[dawn haven]

[pulsar oasis]

[tacit grove]

[pulsar oasis]

[subtle mason]

hello, Can someone help me with my model? I made it in Vroid and imported it into VR, but when I try to publish it, it tells me to delete the blueprint, but when I try to delete it, there's nothing there.

[gusty flame]

That error is often a side-effect, and the root cause error is above. Paste the first 2-3 error summaries here.

[subtle mason]

that?

[gusty flame]

those are the first ones? all the way at the top of the console?

[subtle mason]

Sorry, I don't understand, this is my first time dealing with this.

I'm completely lost.

[gusty flame]

you understand the words "first" and "top", right?

I'm asking for the first errors in the console window, which are at the top.

usually the root-cause error is one of the first few.

[gusty flame]

I'm sorry, I didn't mention : errors are the red ones

[subtle mason]

So these two appear as errors.

[gusty flame]

unfortunately, neither of those says anything useful

[pulsar shale]

So my question is; are textured added to the avatar download size even if completely unused?

Because I have every single texture down to a max size of 32 and its STILL not uploading.

[honest fern]

if its actually on the material used on the avatar

[pulsar shale]

Guess all I can do is atlus the textures.

[void saffron]

I'm attempting to get Quest 2 to work with Vive 1.0 Trackers. Is anyone in this chat have it working and running at all?

[green oriole]

Try this first https://github.com/Thryrallo/VRC-Avatar-Performance-Tools
You might have some materials referenced by animations or a huge mesh file.

[open turret]

Hi! so im stuck trying to upload an avatar for quest, and i've already stripped it to the bare bone and lowered textures to maniacal amounts. however, i cannot for the life of me, get below 24 Mb let alone 10

[green oriole]

Use the project I linked above.
If it doesn't help then look for any larger animation files, dances especially take up a ton.

Also, just checking but you have tried to upload after making those changes right, because it doesn't update otherwise.

[open turret]

is there instructions?

I have uploaded everytime to check sizes

[green oriole]

It adds a tab at the top of Unity, should just be called Thry.
Everything else should be pretty obvious.

[open turret]

i use the evaulator??

[open turret]

So I see this, but after deleting a huge chunk of my Blendshapes, it never changes-

[green oriole]

How did you delete them?

Doesn't look like you have enough to really matter though

That VRAM bit is more notable

Click show details on it

[open turret]

Went into blender and basically selected them and pressed the minus sign which makes the disappear

[open turret]

Just left the house, but I’ll do it when I come home. Also, if you’d like to DM about this, that’d be great!

[green oriole]

Could have just used VRCFury blendshape optimizer, but of course it is a non-destructive thing so you would only notice it has done something in play mode.

[green oriole]

DMs are inefficient, talking in a public chat where other people who might know more about something can chime in is better.

[open turret]

I tried that. Couldn’t get past upload though because it would tell me it’s too big

[green oriole]

Then removing unused blendshapes could only help so much.

[open turret]

Ok. So the VRAM could be the next culprit?

[green oriole]

If you want an even deeper look on things then the Worldtoolkit addon, that is by default included in VCC, works on avatars too and will tell you everything that is included in the package after you have attempted uploading once (it only updates on trying to upload.)

It is possible you have some animation for swapping materials or just a long animation somewhere that is taking up a lot of space.

[green oriole]

Sort of, VRAM is just the tab to go to in Thry's tool.

[open turret]

I did have a dance feature that had like 80 dances, but I got rid of that. Atleast I think I did. Does this picture help?

[green oriole]

Yeah, that it is the mesh being the problem.
Generally huge mesh size is because of blendshapes, but if blendshape optimizer (which is better than just removing blendshapes since it also removes/bakes in blendshapes that you have edited and aren't being animated by something).

In this case I am not sure exactly why it would be that large

Unless you have like several hundred thousands of triangles then best guess is that it could be included animations in the FBX itself, think you can just exclude them from being imported by selecting it in the asset window and in the inspector disabling importing of animations.

[open turret]

Oki. I’ll try that. If that doesn’t work, do you know any methods of lowering the size of the fbx itself?

[green oriole]

Removing extra UVMaps, color attributes (attributes in general).
Donno, needing to remove that much from a base fbx has always been fixed by blendshape optimizing in my experience.

[open turret]

Alright. Thanks for letting me know! I’ll check the animations and tris!

[open turret]

Hi! So i finally got to check again and after disabling animations in the import, i had a little, but not enough of a change in file size, so then i looked at the VRAM tab, and see this. How can i lower the file size of certain meshes?

[gusty flame]

excessive amount of blendshapes is usually the first thing to look at

[green oriole]

I have already said all the ways I know of that a mesh could be large, if doing that won't fix it then I have no idea.

[open turret]

Alright. I've got it in...but i need like 2 More megabytes to kill offff!

[ruby horizon]

dose anyone have any like really esay ways to optimize avis like a mess compresser, lowring texters ect

[honest fern]

This is not a commission server
Go to vrctraders

[jovial fox]

Ok

[jovial fox]

Who is

[stark dome]

?tag scam

[tiny fiber]

Hey ho 👋 I see you're looking for commissions.

You will probably receive DM's or friend requests from scammers now (or later) that will try to offer you their services. 😖

🚫 Absolutely DO NOT engage with those, regardless of how competent they might seem or their excuse to why they contact you.
This is unsafe practice used by scammers, and also breaks this Discord's rules. 👮

If you seek a creator, check out VRCTraders and follow their protocols strictly 🥺
(You will get DM from bot to verify your account upon join.)

🌠 It's extremely important to always DEEPLY investigate the account and social media of the person you plan to commission.
Is their social media linked in Discord? Is it legitimate? Are the references stolen? (Try to reverse image search posts to check.) 👀
The quality of fake profiles out there can be crazy good, be aware of that and NEVER engage with DM or friend requests that originate from the artist.

When in the slightest doubt, do not commission them and contact the moderators of the involved communities. 😱

[stark dome]

Check link on middle

[shut wagon]

Was wondering if I could get some help. I was just unable to load into my homeworld, it said that I had too low of memory. Could this possibly be a hardware problem (not enough RAM) or world loading problems due to it being too demanding for Quest? It is a very detailed world for Quest standalone. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

[fringe locust]

Does it lag when you come in?

They might be doing an image downloader to squeeze textures in there

Then u run out of ram cause those textures filled it all up, furality somer had the same issue

[shut wagon]

I never got the chance to get in. It gave me the all white w black text screen (same screen when servers are down) and it ended up loading me into the default vrchat world instead.

Idk. My Vrc is running fine thou thankfully

[fringe locust]

Might just be that the creator us buns and didn't test their quest build

[shut wagon]

Very likely. 😂

Thanks anyways!

[graceful escarp]

i’m sure this has been asked countless times but i’ll ask anyway, on my quest all avatars (not all but most) appear in super low quality and are really pixelated any fix for this or nah? also the graphics and stuff also aren’t doing well but i’ve heard that’s just how it is, any help appreciated thanks

[honest fern]

imposters are not a bug

[graceful escarp]

i started today what’s is an imposter

[honest fern]

the fake 3d render of the avatar that is hidden by performance restrictions

[graceful escarp]

so there’s nothing i can do about it right?

[honest fern]

if there is no quest version of the avatar then you literally cant show it

[graceful escarp]

oh?

[honest fern]

its just there to give you an idea of what the avatar even is

instead of just being whatever their fallback is

[graceful escarp]

no i mean like when i look at avatars 90% of them are in like 180p and are almost like 2D

[honest fern]

yes

again

thats imposter

[graceful escarp]

ah okay

[honest fern]

you can try force showing people but like
you are on mobile hardware

you will very quickly run into issues trying to force show everyone

[graceful escarp]

no i only wana see people im talking to properly

idc how others look

it’s jus annoying when i’m talking to someone and it’s like a few pixels

[honest fern]

then set them to force show

[graceful escarp]

i feel like an idiot and it’s ok if you don’t have time to explain but

how do i do that 🥺

[honest fern]

have you never clicked on a person with the menu open?

[graceful escarp]

i tried to but it didn’t work

[honest fern]

gives you a full menu of player specific options

[honest fern]

if the avatar literally doesnt have a quest version it cant be shown

[graceful escarp]

idk i’m super new i might be doing it wrong, anyway when i manage to does it just appear as an option?

[honest fern]

is the eye icon

[graceful escarp]

oh okay thank you

[honest fern]

you can either force show, hide, or shield setting

[graceful escarp]

i made it so 20 avatars load and i dont load avatars past 50 metres cuz i thought it’d do something 🙏😭

[honest fern]

quest is restricted considering its mobile hardware with not a lot of ram

[graceful escarp]

yes it’s very sad

[graceful escarp]

hi just wana say thanks, the force load thing loads most avatars now well all is good thank you

[honest fern]

optimize what exactly?

but like
worlds and avatars are user generated content?

like update what?
tell users to make their worlds less laggy for your phone?

but worlds and avatars are ENTIRELY user uploaded

vrchat takes no part in it other than updating the sdk for uploading

and what did you mean then

cause its up to the world creator to add those settings

[unreal pier]

I just give up I’m too tired to explain what I mean

Like how am I supposed to suggest something if a world creator doesn’t have any feedback boards or anything in the world maybe they did and I missed it

[long venture]

i mean if a creator doesnt have a listed way to provide feedback for their content they likely dont want any

[unreal pier]

Unfortunately

[gusty estuary]

Hey guys

Can someone ban someone frazzle69 ban for forever

[solemn flint]

genuinely who are you 🙏

[gusty flame]

and what does this have to do with quest content optimization?

[hushed trellis]

any tips to lower the uncompressed size? I already lowered all the texturs resolutions, also idk if this matters but they are no bones outside of the standard body bones, no physbones were made, the only toggle are a jacket on/off toggle and a hair mat swap toggle (edit: i deleted the toggles now too but nothing is changing the number)

[hushed trellis]

I just tried using the vrcquesttools on it and the warning is still there, the number didn’t change

[fair moat]

the easiest way is just to lower the texture sizes in the import settings, like 4096 → 2048, 2048 → 1024

[hushed trellis]

I lowered it below 1000, i forgot the numbers but I did the one closer to 500

Im wondering if its a bug with the cc, because no matter how many things I delete or edit, it always says 49.68

I tried restarting the project and nothing changed

[fair moat]

did you rebuild the avi?
the warning is for the last build

[hushed trellis]

yes i was changing it in blender and reuploading it

[fair moat]

what? in blender?

[hushed trellis]

like I was deleting assets in blender

then i upload the new fbx but it wasnt changing the uncompressed size

I made sure the new version was selected in cc every time I changed it

[fair moat]

import settings can be found in Unity. click the textures you're using and check the bottom of the Inspector.

i’m not sure about blender, but as far as i know, there isn't a specific setting for texture resolution. it least, i've never used one if it exists.

[hushed trellis]

Sorry I meant I was changing the texture resolutions in unity but that wasn’t working, so I went into blender to delete unnecessary assets to see if that would help lower the uncompressed size, but neither worked unfortunately

[fair moat]

alright, so you deleted the mesh, is that correct?
unfortunately, deleting the mesh doesn't reduce the uncompressed size.
also if the deleted parts shared the same materials as the remaining parts, the texture size will remain the same.

[hushed trellis]

ok Thats good to know, but Im not sure what to do about it then. Again when I used the vrcquestools, i made it change the materials and textures to be the 500 something option, I also went through and did it manually after the quest tool didn’t work. Im just not understanding why its staying at 49.68 no matter what I do

[fair moat]

ah ok, i think i misread that
then.. hmm

ok, so how many textures does the avatar have?

[hushed trellis]

Ill look tomorrow, but i know there is for sure 4 textures (head, body, hair, eyes), the rest are just materials

[fair moat]

hmm, weird...

[hushed trellis]

Are there other things besides textures that can be adding to uncompressed size?

[long venture]

Thry's avatar performance tool can tell you whats taking up the most space on the model

https://vpm.thry.dev/ or https://github.com/Thryrallo/VRC-Avatar-Performance-Tools

[astral bear]

im so confused what is causing the build failing

[gusty flame]

It's the middle one

Look in your Avatar Descriptor, probably the main menu slot has a bad value in it

[astral bear]

yea idk atp

this the only thing i see now

[gusty flame]

check the alerts in the build stats window then

[steady sleet]

What am I missing to do here? I tried to lower the textures as much as I could.

[gusty flame]

oh you're doing this in two places. Don't.

Textures aren't the only things, also "the texture" implies one - do you only have one?

check mesh sizes too. Thry's avatar performance tools can help.

[steady sleet]

Mess sizes

Where can I find the mesh sizes?

[gusty flame]

do you know what a mesh is?

[steady sleet]

No

I’m very new doing something complex and I’m trying as hard as I can

[gusty flame]

it's the part of your model you see. Large mesh, many faces, can take up space. But usually it's excess shape keys, each one stores positions of each vertex, so it adds up fast.

[steady sleet]

What would I need to type in to find it?

[gusty flame]

find what?

[steady sleet]

The things that are mesh

[gusty flame]

objects with a Mesh Renderer or Skinned Mesh Renderer component in Unity

but you can't see the size there anyway

[steady sleet]

O

[gusty flame]

I suggested Thry's performance tool already, that's what I would use if I wanted to find the size of my mesh objects.

[steady sleet]

Could it be from how complex the avatar is as well?

[gusty flame]

absolutely

[steady sleet]

It is a Xenomorph

[gusty flame]

if you say so

[steady sleet]

And I realise fixing a broken avatar is hard, especially since I don’t have a skill for it but I’m trying to and I have to

I’m going through every file that I can compress that will let me compress it

[gusty flame]

actually using compression on textures is not the answer here, and it will cause lag when people load your avatar.

and it only changes the compressed size, not uncompressed size (which is limited to 40MB)

[steady sleet]

O

Does that mean I’d have to remove something from this avatar?

Because I would not know what to remove without breaking it

[gusty flame]

I have no idea what you have now so I can't really suggest that with no information.
But if you have "lots of stuff" - sure? maybe?

[steady sleet]

I’ve had that even add the animation thing to it

The avatar is called zealot DKD xenoserg

I lowered it by 2 MB

😕

Does this mean I’m getting closer to fixing it?

[gusty flame]

but yes, it does.

[steady sleet]

I did it

[keen bramble]

Compression is fine, crunch compression is not

[gusty flame]

Yes, I should have been specific, thanks

[gusty flame]

also don't ping me for help, I don't work here.

dude, chill, I'm doing other things, optimize your stuff

read scrollback here, it's been discussed

oh, seems you've been told that already too

[mild prawn]

you make it smaller

depending on how high you can go, change the compression

for example, here is an avi on medium & high mesh compression:

^

so, you select the mesh, you then go to the inspector, down to the meshes part, select the dropdown menu and chose the compression you want, then scroll down and press apply

what

no cuz its gonna use mu unity and in doing something rn

its really just three mouse clicks

you select your .fbx, you go on the inspector tab, and in the dropdown menu for mesh compresion you select the type (none, low, medium, high), then you apply the changes and wait for your pc to do the work

no

thats a prefab

[gusty flame]

er

why is that a prefab.

[mild prawn]

send a picture of the asset bar

[gusty flame]

oh so it's a rip.

uh huh.

[mild prawn]

doesnt have to be a rip i've had the same when i modify some avis

[gusty flame]

which avatar is it?

[mild prawn]

anyways can you share you asset bar dr nil

go to mesh or avatar probably in one or both

or search fbx

hu

[gusty flame]

Typical folder structure from a ripped avatar there.

[mild prawn]

go back to your prefab and double click it

yeah great

now look at the inspector tab

[ashen current]

wtf

[mild prawn]

no

on the left press some menu any as long as its like a shirt or something

then on the left look at the mesh, where it points at

[mild prawn]

on the right

damn wtf is that name

anyways so press it so it can open in the asset bar on the bottom

wait a second

is that an SS officer avatar?

[gusty flame]

...

[gusty flame]

ripped and hate content, fun.

[mild prawn]

alright well ill still show you how to compress stuff, but please dont use ss stuff

its just lame

anyways did you press

[mild prawn]

;;

press this

uuuh idk man your pfp aint really helping...

alright what does it show

give me a second i have to open one on my side

[gusty flame]

Yeah - profile pic is an SS officer too

[mild prawn]

ye.... nothing they do can help them about not knowing the avi was ss

[gusty flame]

I can't imagine they don't know, with that profile pic

Rule #2 yo

[mild prawn]

ill still show them how to compres, but i hope they change ways

[gusty flame]

oh I'm not

but feel free.

[mild prawn]

@twilit blaze press the mesh icon not the name

alright just wait for my pc to cooperate with me im stuck on a loading

there should be a button or somethign to press and it selects the mesh in your asset browser

try finding it

yo silly guy @twilit blaze press the mesh this should appear

in the asset folder

after pressing body, it appeared in my asset thingy

do the same

and quick cuz i wana finish this to go to sleep

im tired ima go to sleep

https://docs.unity3d.com/2020.3/Documentation/Manual/mesh-compression.html#mesh-compression

follow the unity doc

silly boi @twilit blaze

[rustic onyx]

this channel bro

[gusty flame]

one of the channels of all time?

[ember lark]

um can someone help me with my vrc model because I asked someone that modified my model to make it quest compatible they said they did but I paid someone to upload it which they did and here's what it told me when I logged in to check yesterday morning

idk if someone can help me

idk if this is the right place tbh

probably not

[long venture]

#avatar-help is prolly a better spot to ask but if its uploaded to your own account that looks like it didnt pass the security check/got flagged by it

if its uploaded to someone elses and you've cloned/favourited it then it's was either privated or removed

[ember lark]

don't need this anymore I found someone thanks for all the help

[low crag]

hello i need person from poland to help with optimalization meta gest 3 vr

[ivory blade]

hi

[trail coyote]

So, since the fifth, I've been having issues getting into VRChat. Is anyone else having this issue?

[gusty flame]

Probably try #1138891887374237706 - this channel is about content optimization

[livid bridge]

“My friend got a dermal piercing about two weeks ago and wants to play VR on the Oculus Quest 2, but it hurts or feels uncomfortable when wearing the headset. Is there anything she can do to make it more comfortable? Any tips or tricks?”

[fickle grotto]

Someone trying out a bot script?

[fiery loom]

Take it off

[soft bobcat]

I need to shave 1gb off my avi twt
how can I

[long venture]

try reading through some of the suggestions in #avatar-optimization + using an add-on (like thry's avatar performance tool) to check whats actually taking up the most space on your model so you can focus on optimizing just that first

[soft bobcat]

oki ty

[split kettle]

Has anyone created a utility for swapping materials with mobile compatible variants? It’s such a hassle having to swap everything over whenever I want to test a world on quest.

[split kettle]

Nevermind, Ive been made aware of EasyQuestSwitch

[plucky tusk]

If I'm using wired connection with my Quest 2, do I still need Horizon Link app running even though I'm using SteamVR? I'm trying to up my performance but I'm new to this VR thing...

[terse frigate]

if you use Steam VR, you don't need the Horizion Link app at all.

[green oriole]

The only way to use your headset wired to your computer is with the Horizon Link app, which is decreasing your performance by 10-15%.
So, yes, you do need it.
-# There is one other way but it sometimes doesn't work because of Quest updates and is a bit technical to setup.

I would suggest trying to make wireless work better, Steam Link or Virtual Desktop.
All you really need is that your computer is wired to your wifi router, that the router supports 5Ghz (means it is quick) and that your headset isn't too far away from the wifi.

[plucky tusk]

How come? It seems to not run almost at all if I turn off the Horizon Link App.

[terse frigate]

I connect my Quest 2 all the time, and I deleted the app. I use a wireless setup though. I don't know if Steam VR supports wired connection on its own.

[plucky tusk]

fair. I try to use wired due to my router not having best signal strength lol

[terse frigate]

Mack seems to know about wired, listen to him

[green oriole]

SteamLink does not support wired, only Meta does because they are the only ones with such low level access.
-# Am still skipping over a technical workaround because it is simply too fragile imo.

[terse frigate]

of course a company would want to keep it in their software only. I'm sure meta could make some compatibility with other wired solutions but why do that when you could have people install meta spyware instead and be reliant on the company? Also you have to buy that expensive meta cord.

[green oriole]

Nowadays I wouldn't put it like that, Meta has kind of given up on Airlink/Link and you never needed their expensive cable (similarly priced to wired headset cable replacements), any USB cable works, but preferably a thin and 3.0 one.

The entire vr space has also concluded that wireless is the way to go, even if it sometimes will require the user to do extra things.

[plucky tusk]

I noticed that I'm opening VRChat and no matter how I open, steamVR opens together with it. Is there a chance to make it run only on Meta software then as Meta + SteamVR does kill some bit of performance?

I am running Oculus Link Cable fyi.

And Meta software is set as OpenXR Runtime.

[green oriole]

Install VRChat on the Meta Quest PC app instead.

[green oriole]

VRChat doesn't support OpenXR

It uses OpenVR on SteamVR and whatever the Oculus SDK is called (if not exactly that) on the Meta PC app store

If you want full body tracking (excluding OSC trackers which does still work) or overlays then you have to use SteamVR though.

[gusty flame]

I'd bet if you uninstalled all of the Meta stuff, used Steam and ALVR, you'd have better performance 🙂

[plucky tusk]

Without Meta I guess it doesn’t work anymore, I’m not sure though.

[gusty flame]

that would surprise me, you don't need any of that if you use SteamLink or Virtual Desktop.

maybe ALVR ditched the USB connection though? I know I did try it at one point in the past.

[tender nest]

hey, so i want to shrink this avatar download size from 47 MB to 10 for vrchat

[long venture]

Thry's avatar performance tool is good for figuring out what on the model needs optimizing so you've got an idea on where to start: https://vpm.thry.dev/

stuff like texture resolution, removing unused blendshapes are the easiest ways to cut down on model size generally and can be done in unity but most other ways require some blender work

[tender nest]

i dont want to use the quest version of this avatar, as it just looks blocky and looks worse than the now deleted public avi

[long venture]

Okay?

[tender nest]

What does the plug-in show up as?

[tender nest]

Ah, sorry, I meant to put that with my post, but it just wouldn't send till now

[long venture]

after its added in VCC it'll show up as its own tab beside the VRCSDK

[tender nest]

Alright what do I click next

VRAM or Evaluator

[long venture]

VRAM'll show you your stats just drag your model in the heirarchy into its dropbox

[tender nest]

It shows the blocked mouse cursor, I cant drag it in

[long venture]

hrmm... then hit the little circle and manually find your model that way

[tender nest]

Is it just the model without the textures?

I just want to reduce my download size for me

I thought thats what this did

[long venture]

that doesnt manually reduce sizing it tells you your model's stats so you can go and optimize it yourself rather then you trying to fix stuff that's already fine

[tender nest]

Ugghh

Ok

Sure

[long venture]

you'd be looking for something like Poly tool to do manual work but its a paid program

[tender nest]

How do I optimize this

[long venture]

i cant tell you w/o knowing what you're working with stat wise but you're gonna want them to be within the set performance limits https://creators.vrchat.com/avatars/avatar-performance-ranking-system/#mobile-limits

[tender nest]

Do i just send over the unity package

[long venture]

no???

[tender nest]

How do I get you to know what im working with then

Im a newbie to unity

I dont know how to do any of this

I have EasyQuestSwitch on, why isn't it replacing the poiyomi texture

[long venture]

im not here to hand-hold or do the work for you, nor is sharing your model likely allowed. ive shown you the tool that'd give you that answer though it seems like either somethings changed with the program since last used it or theres an issue with your project/model im not sure but this video is a good overview on how the script works: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Nm7I-kCL6Y

i also have 0 knowledge with easyquestswitch so idk

might wanna ask that one in #avatar-help

[hasty citrus]

I kinda forgot to do that for quest... but if you have a lot of menu icons, they still take up space :)

Before After
D: 3.19MB 2.8MB
VRAM: 6.5MB 6.07MB
UC: 15.49MB 14.38MB

I made sure that they are all compressed with 12x12 instead of the default 6x6

got my size down for free basically

all 128x128 ofc

[last pelican]

Question - if I want to wire into my pc with my meta quest 3, is meta link or alvr better to use or should I just stick to using steam vr?

[green oriole]

If you want to do it with a cable then Meta link is your only easy option, the others require setup and developer mode (tbf not hard to get).

But if you have a functioning setup with Steam Link then just continue using that, swapping over to Meta link or Airlink will just make VRChat run worse, unless you install VRChat from the Meta PC store and forgo FBT, overlays and some small things.

[last pelican]

OK thank you!

[lyric pewter]

I seen that hack a million times

[silver brook]

lets chat here bc the clanka is fukin anoying

[silver brook]

nvm

[patent anchor]

LoL

[crude fable]

How do i make vrc run smoother on quest?

[autumn heart]

That depends on your
Vrc settings
Which Model of your vr
And
Your internet speed

[gusty flame]

don't show Very Poor avatars

[crude fable]

Quest 3

[crude fable]

I tried, it still lags

[gusty flame]

Sorry, didn't mean to imply that was the absolute fix, just that it's one of many factors.

[crude fable]

I want there to be no lag man

Why doesn't it work for me?

[autumn heart]

How bout your internet speed?

[crude fable]

It's fast

[autumn heart]

I mostly one stand alone quest this past month, I dont experience consist lag or lag spikes or fps drops.

As long as im on a less crowded worlds

If you go like worlds that has more than 7 or 8 players.

You'll eventually start lagging and experiencing frame drop

Try setting up your graphic setting to medium, sometimes putting it to low can also mess up the game for some reason.

[gusty flame]

I wouldn't think internet speed would be a major factor, it's usually other players

[autumn heart]

Sometimes it does, for me mainly.

Cuz I have a crappy internet which is sucks.

Bcuz of it I cannot connect my vr to steam link anymore .

Which that is a different issue

[crude fable]

I don't have that option

[autumn heart]

Try going less crowded instances see if there's any difference than the usual ones you go.

If it still didn't help!

Im sorry but that's all the ideas i can get.

Besides cleaning the storage of your Quest

[hasty citrus]

I managed to reduce one material (from 2 to 1) on my quest/ios model.
My VRAM usage went up slightly as well as the size of the mesh.

Before i used a second material to make my latex warmers on my avatar. This gave me the ability to just material swap, which meant i now had Atlas + Latex material on my avatar.
Instead i used texture packed maps together with the vertex paint for where the latex should be :)
https://blackwolfwoof.com/s/ysbsT2Nz4CFpYAr/preview

https://blackwolfwoof.com/s/etz9xt5HmMzCxir/preview

-# The black layer is the vertex paint

I wish i could also use vertex paint for some of the masks, but yea

[cursive folio]

Can someone make a avatar for me

[gusty flame]

"can" - yes. "will"? Head over to the VRC Traders discord if you want to commission someone. Beware of scammers from this server.

[solemn flint]

The XR2 gen 2 can only do so much
the quest 3 is more usually to be fast when in a lobby with smaller player counts
Knowing i use a quest 3, we kinda just have to suffer with the fact that we lag more often
Plus avatars can be a hit or miss soo yeah

[fierce spade]

I have a quest 2 and always when i get on vrchat it says low memory and halve the avis aren't loading in, can someone help me fix that or is this normal?

[gusty flame]

Yes, there's not much memory available in there and avatars can easily fill it

[hasty anvil]

Can anyone help I’m going through a problem I can’t add people though meta only a certain few I have ran into. me and my girl want to play with each other on meta but we can’t I search for her name it’s there but no add button and when I message only a ! In a red circle

[gusty flame]

this channel is for content creation, maybe you want #1138891887374237706

[terse frigate]

you should configure your safety settings and set your shield level to custom. Then, turn off avatars, emoji, stickers, and such for every trust rank except friends. you can keep voice on for all the trust ranks but basically everything else can be off for visitor - trusted. Especially if you are playing on quest 2 you don't want to be loading all the avatars in a lobby. There is also avatar culling, set that to a number 10m or lower. Under prints set them to friends only or off.

as a quest user, you can enable the avatar of the person you are talking to by clicking on them and clicking the eyeball under avatar display, but remember to set the avatar back to off or shield after you are done talking to them.

[fierce spade]

Ok thanks im trying my.best

[terse frigate]

yeah quest gameplay is rough but at least we can play the game

[fierce spade]

Yea

[gusty estuary]

Yo

[craggy bear]

Yee

[full kraken]

hi

[sacred crow]

your profile about me section is so cool

[full kraken]

?

[sacred crow]

the about me section in your profile is/looks cool

[full kraken]

thanks

[hasty wagon]

wow

Okay

Explain

I wanna do that with mine

[gusty flame]

aand I failed to reply

[regal cloak]

You can force load stubborn avatars by previewing them in your menu, but you have to do thing for every avatar every person.

[steep spindle]

You’re in luck:

“Just in time for the weekend, here's a small Quest-only hotfix to help with low memory issues on Quest 2.

2026.1.3p2, build 1821 pulls a few levers to create more headroom for content and avoid memory-related disconnects and crashes.

Changes & Fixes

• Anti-aliasing on Quest 2 devices has been changed from MSAA 4x to 2x.
  • Object edges will look a bit "crispier" now, but this change alone frees up 210 MB of system RAM.
• Optimized a handful of menu textures as well.”

In theory that’s enough to load an extra 5 avatars.

[steep spindle]

I personally think that it should be 2x for all of standalone. The visual really isn’t that different and the performance is almost always a bigger problem. I’m glad that it’s at least done for quest 2.

There was a (I believe accidental) very brief update about 2 years ago that gave quest users the ability to view and change the full list of settings like PC. I, on my quest 2, immediately set mine all to low (and they stayed on low even after the patch- I had half lod bias), I thought it would just reduce my lod bias and not too much else, but now that this has my mind on MSAA, I believe low overall settings also force it to 2x (or 0x- whichever one). That completely explains to me why I crashed literally only like 20-30% of the time compared to my friends. It was always confusing to me, because I didn’t expect just lod bias, which usually doesn’t get used, and some other small stuff would give such crash resistance. But if it had also changed my MSAA, and the difference of 4x and 2x is 210MBs of more ram, now it makes total sense to me, the mystery of my unkillable quest 2 from 2 years ago is solved in my mind.

Quest 3 also has 30% more resolution, so the gains would be even larger if changed on all of standalone.

[steep spindle]

I truly think it would be worth it. Everyone talks performance, 99.5% more than anyone talk about edges looking jagged, or thin emissive objects flickering. Just having 2x in the first place already solves a huge percentage of the visual problems.

[gusty flame]

this channel is about content creation, not runtime issues.

[lime dust]

oh sorry lol

[deep jacinth]

Why is the quest 2 so unoptimized when it comes to running vrchat

I run every other game smoothly

But vrchat has a fucking problem with me 😭

[gusty flame]

Is your avatar Very Poor?

[deep jacinth]

No

It's not

[gusty flame]

That's a good start.

[green oriole]

The vast majority of content on VRC is made by people who aren't game developers or really understand optimization.
And it is too dynamic to really be optimized in most cases, an entire world of people can sit in the same spot.

[hazy hornet]

im trying to upload an avatar to quest, switched the shaders and unlocked them and tried idk what to do

[hasty citrus]

You should not have any locked shaders. VRChat mobile shaders don't have that option

I personally use toon standard as mobile shader

[hazy hornet]

theyre unlocked but im having errors and i dont know how to fix them

[noble zephyr]

Is there a limit to rotation constraints?

[gusty flame]

Yes, details on this page: https://creators.vrchat.com/avatars/avatar-performance-ranking-system

[rain compass]

How do I combine materials in unity

[honest fern]

you dont

you do that in blender

[gusty flame]

you'd think these images would be able to be auto-filtered by now.

[hasty citrus]

Imagine a place, discord™, a place where users are kept safe by the all mighty discord-
You get the joke... they do jackshit

[gusty flame]

I've lost count how many of those I've reported to them now

[stark dome]

they need OCR based picture detection to deal with it.
1 of friend's bot manage to detect it that way.

[quartz oracle]

I have a question what happened to VR chat???

[green oriole]

Server issues, they happen.

[gusty flame]

that's not a question about quest optimization though

[quartz oracle]

@green oriole thank you for telling me cuz I just got confused

[quartz oracle]

Are the servers acting up again

[gusty flame]

see in #server-status

[untold violet]

Does anyone have tips on how I can dynamically create a texture atlas for 200 textures? (I have 200+ images for each song and I need to be able to change them every month) If I disable my song triggers, with my baked lighting and batched meshes I can easily get under 50 draw calls and with occlusion culling <50k polys

[slow plover]

Probably pretty easily with imagemagick: http://www.imagemagick.org/Usage/montage/#tile

[kind crest]

I don’t know how to dynamically do it. But if you want help I can make you a new texture map/atlas

[slow plover]

Setting up UVs will have to be seperate though.

[untold violet]

Awesome, here's where I'm at if I turn my songs off

[kind crest]

Nice

[slow plover]

There's a lot of other stuff to check. Shaders, texture sizes, etc.

[untold violet]

And btw, I built this to Go (without the custom scripts) and can run it at 72fps with 1.2 SS

Yep Mobile/Unlit or Unlit/Texture only

[deft schooner]

I was testing out my church and I'm on to 700K+ poly's 😢

[untold violet]

decimate x1000 @deft schooner

[deft schooner]

Might have to finally make that Lag Free Box Church

[untold violet]

lol

[slow plover]

You can have low poly worlds that look pretty amazing 😃

[civic summit]

PS1 throwbacks ayy

[deft schooner]

The Official Quest of Marriage - Coming soon.

[slow plover]

Considering that most PS1 games targeted 20k polys in a single viewport and we're saying that you should aim for 50k for just a world, you've got quite a bit more room than that 😛

Plus normal maps, specular...

Lightmapping, etc

[civic summit]

Hey optimization and nostalgia > Actual limits

[untold violet]

I tried a couple of games on Quest back at OC5 and they looked pretty good. And i've seen some really good stuff on Go so it's definitely possible

[violet ermine]

In general: Mobile devices can handle a lot of triangles: But everything has a cost. Having less triangles means more headroom for avatars and other features

[slow plover]

I think a key part of all this is that your initial design and "style" should scale to low-fi optimization. Lots of amazing looking games are actually pretty light on technical complexity

[civic summit]

Btw the 10 people in a room is that a soft-cap or hard-cap?

[slow plover]

Firewatch is a good example of that

that's a recommendation, like the rest of the thigns on that list

[civic summit]

Oh yes Firewatch was beautiful for what it was

Alright, so it's more soft-caps than actual limits

[pulsar stag]

I can't imagine 10 being enforced, there's a lot of popular worlds that are gonna want to be brought to quest with higher player caps

[untold violet]

Is it fair to say your recommended numbers are conservative? I remember Oculus saying the suggested draw call limit for Go was 200.

[pulsar stag]

gotta stress optimization even moreso

[slow plover]

Our recommendations are based on a lot of sources and internal testing

[deft schooner]

Wonder what the pug will look like on the quest if it works well? Imagine if the minecraft version was the popular version on there xD

[slow plover]

I would aim for them and don't think "oh they just said this to keep perf high"

The minecraft version is actually significantly less optimized than the actual pug 🤔

[sinful hare]

Some of the limits seem to be because Quest literally doesn't have the storage space for a bunch of avatars

[civic summit]

Yeyeah ofc, was just wondering if it was actual hard-caps or you can go slightly above.

[slow plover]

@sinful hare Less storage space, more worried about memory usage.

[untold violet]

Ok 👍 and with your recommendations if there is a world at the highest end of your specs and 10 avatars at the top end is that still expected to run at 72fps?

[sinful hare]

Okay, that was the impression I got from the deck you guys made

[slow plover]

@untold violet Don't know, depends on the exact setup and the avatars that users are wearing. Lots of unknowns right now, we just wanna get people started.

[waxen nimbus]

i really hope over 10 can be figured out

[untold violet]

@waxen nimbus I would take 72fps any day over more people

[sinful hare]

I tend to spend my weekends the opposite

[wooden quail]

No @slow plover, The Big Pig always pulls higher framecounts due to its lack of realtime lighting systems.

[sinful hare]

Large groups, low frames

[slow plover]

@wooden quail ohh I was only looking at material counts when I looked

makes sense

[wooden quail]

Material counts are high, but they are instanced. So, 🤷

The building itself only has 5 unique materials.

[violet ermine]

Yeah, Static Batching and Dynamic batching help with performace a ton. Keep an eye out for the triangle count and vertex attritutes.

https://docs.unity3d.com/Manual/DrawCallBatching.html

So if you have Vert position, Normal, UV0, UV1 and Tangent . . . you're down to only 180 verts

[craggy marsh]

You should be enabling GPU Instancing on all of your materials.
But instancing not supported for skinned mesh renderers 🤔

[violet ermine]

You can see how many Batches you have and how many draw calls are saved in the Render Stats window: https://docs.unity3d.com/Manual/RenderingStatistics.html

[marble stratus]

And instancing might not get activated for transparent objects due to sorting. (Since we cant manually call DrawInstanced)

[slow plover]

You should be really, really, really careful with transparency

[pulsar stag]

transparency is already hell on PC

[violet ermine]

It's referred to as overdraw or Alpha Fill rate

Basically, avoid having transparent objects fill up a lot of your view. It's generally okay to have them in the distance, like having clouds moving overhead.

[marble stratus]

Yup, overdraw on close objects matters even on pc due to VR resolutions

[violet ermine]

this ^ even one triangle that's semi-transparent . . . but fills up your entire view is bad

[bright leaf]

transparancy is the bane of my existance with world building. >.> stupid foliage

[blazing crescent]

@bright leaf For PC, not for Quest more than likely, you can optimize foliage quite a bit by doing a depth prepass.

Basically a pass that writes nothing but depth, and uses a very small low res texture to clip with.

You then in the actual pass with your lighting, etc, only write if the depth is equal. This removes 99% of overdraw. A lot of AAA games use it for foliage, and I believe Unity's grass shader for terrain does as well.

Doesn't stop foliage from lagging you entirely, but it definitely helps.

[bright leaf]

i'll have to look into that

[blazing crescent]

This is a comparison shot I took from a forest map I had.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/404845610404020226/513768057307398194/unknown.png
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/404845610404020226/513768197011537930/unknown.png

[pulsar stag]

what if

instead of alpha blending, we do noise-dithered cutout

in the texture itself

and use a regular cutout shader

[regal summit]

^ That's a really cool idea. I wonder if mipmapping will mess things up for you at a distance

though you could disable mipmapping and accept it being noisy

[pulsar stag]

embrace the noise

[lament drum]

These two addons would significantly optimize 3D&2D Assets to be able to create optimized Worlds and Avatars 🤔
https://assetstore.unity.com/packages/tools/modeling/automatic-lod-43652

https://assetstore.unity.com/packages/tools/modeling/simple-lod-25366

[humble canyon]

that does not look like it generates suitable at all topology at all the first one

looking at the second one all of the reviews from the past year says they don't work on the current version

[tribal tartan]

if good LOD could be automated

it would already be

[lament drum]

Indeed it looks like the second one might have some issues, but It can still create the meshes and texture atlases needed to optimize the assets. You would just have to do it on an older version and then export it and import it into the VRChat project.

[humble canyon]

it's okay prosthetic low priority props automated LOD but not good for animated character models at the viewing distances we need

yes but we'd have to see what's topology its output

as if it looks anything like the first one it's unusable

as it butchered the eye Edge Loop and probably the Edge Loop mouth

https://s3.envato.com/files/82082335/2.jpg

https://s3.envato.com/files/82082335/4.jpg

an example of how a low poly face should probably look topology wise

so you can have proper mouth animation

[lament drum]

yeah thats always the hardest thing when it comes to automated systems. it doesnt take anumations in mind. for that you'll need to get in there and adjust it

[humble canyon]

seems like you might be better off someone making base for anime characters at the correct polygon density so you're not Reinventing the wheel considering how similar hands and feet and faces are considering it's mostly hair and clothing that's custom

[dire rivet]

30 FPS on the Oculus GO for my world with mirror on and 2 people. Guess I did things right

[tribal tartan]

you're not counting the music audiosource, animation controllers, props and avatar pedestals.

[waxen nimbus]

https://github.com/maxartz15/MA_TextureAtlasser

posted this in worlds but it deserves posting here too, seems like a nice open source texture atlaser

https://github.com/Unity-Technologies/AutoLOD

also found this free one from unity, not sure how good it works

[swift sky]

it's worth a try

[sharp zinc]

i i am

meme

XD

[regal summit]

MA Atlasser writes to obj so it doesn't support all mesh features but should get the job done.

[patent mist]

Mesh Baker free seems to work also

Oh wait I’m in the quest channel. Should still work though

[tribal tartan]

at the end of the day the main big difference between quest and pc dev is just the platform you compile assets for and the max numbers, so tools for pc dev should work for quest fine

[swift sky]

pretty sure you might have some errors opening your Quest optimized world on the Oculus Go build

[lone hawk]

so according to oculus' guidelines for mobile development you should aim for a maximum of 150,000 triangles in a scene. assuming the average quest avatar will have a maximum of 5,000 triangles, a world with about 30,000 triangles could fit a grand total of 24 people. but that obviously doesn't take into account unique materials or all the spatialized audio and the IK systems. is this an accurate assesssment? could an extremely low poly world push maybe 15 people without too much lag?

[left holly]

I wonder how much triangle my worl have never really check. Probably around 10k max

But i put shader that move on some surface. So it might not work for quest

[waxen nimbus]

I'm not sure if the 150,000 number applies to the Quest, isn't that number for the Go?

[lone hawk]

Yes. The quest would theoretically be even higher

[white surge]

It's probably so low for VRChat since it's already such a CPU intensive game

[primal rock]

From my experience, removing shadows and avoiding mesh colliders will make your world really fast. I don't even bother with occlusion or baked lights

[ebon spade]

You should definitely bake your lights.

But

Well generally a realtime directional light will just add a bit of overhead by itself @primal rock

[primal rock]

I only have the default direcitonal light. If I bake that, won't avatars be completely black?

[ebon spade]

But in terms of drawcalls, a realtime directional light with no shadows won't be adding any drawcalls. Apparently the Forward Base pass can handle up to one realtime directional light

No, not if you add light probes

But if you have a scene with just a shadowless realtime light, baking the lights will probably increase quality without impacting performance too much

[primal rock]

It's possible to have a world with no light sources like that?

[ebon spade]

Yeah, a lot of worlds in this game are baked-only. No realtime lights.

Light probes add light to non-static objects

[primal rock]

So they affect avatars, interesting. Aren't they lights by themselves then?

[ebon spade]

Well, Unity feeds data to the shader based on light probe information

Generally a shader will just get the ambient color, and light probes will change what the shader gets to be more accurate.

Or they use specific functions, I haven't delved too much into the specific functions myself yet

[primal rock]

I'm happy with this world though, I can spawn 200 objects, turn on the mirror, and then reflect myself and those objects and still get 90 fps on min specs. I have yet to see another world run that well for me. And cool, I should read up on that! Would be interesting to have a scene with no light. Is there a way to tell it "just make everything 100% lit, don't bother calculating any shadows"?

[ebon spade]

No idea, probably by turning up the ambient lighting or using a shadowless directional/spot light?

Baked-only setups are pretty good for this game as they make sure the lighting doesn't have to be recalculated every frame

And baking your lights also makes the world look better

[lone hawk]

if you set the ambient light color to white it would work, but you should seriously just do baked lighting with baked shadows and light probes because it is virtually the same performance-wise but looks way better.

[slow plover]

@primal rock I'd suggest looking into Light Probes and how to set them up for Unity. Basically, you pre-calculate the direction, intensity, and color of various locations on the map. When presented with Light Probes, shaders that use them (basically any surface shader with a lighting pass) will apply those properties to the avatar. It will also blend between them based on your position. It is fairly easy to do, and is a huge performance boost.

However, you can't have shadows without doing real-time lights, which is why very few mobile VR applications do real-time shadows. Some do "blobs" or etc which are really just a projected texture or some similar technique.

[lone hawk]

you can also do projected texture flashlights for horror maps

[primal rock]

Thanks Tupper, I will look into it! Gotta go fast!

[spring ibex]

how is body tracking gonna work on the qurst

if it has no tracker

s

[amber sleet]

With great effort

[ebon spade]

You can't, of course. @spring ibex

I don't see full body tracking happening on the Quest

[lone hawk]

well there is one way to do fullbody tracking with inside out tracking

but it would have to be the ultrasonic positional tracking and the quest uses cameras

[spring ibex]

wait so how would my avatar look if i'm sat on the floor irl

[ebon spade]

The same as it normally does in the current desktop version? @spring ibex

The game tracks your headset and controller positions and applies IK to "guess" or estimate your IRL body's position

With SteamVR-supported trackers, you can also track the hips and possibly feet. Obviously, that isn't gonna work on the Quest version of the game.

[spring ibex]

Would the estimations be able to render my avatar while I'm lying down, for example

Or would it end up looking like a crouch

[ebon spade]

It will end up looking like a crouch

It pretty much only has your head position to work with

[spring ibex]

Isn't it possible to set up a prone animation for an avatar

Instead of a crouch animation

Like for example the animation triggers when the cameras on the side can see the floor

10cm for example

away

[ebon spade]

Yeah, prone already happens

[sharp zinc]

you just said

that lying on the floor

only triggers a crouch animation

[ebon spade]

Well it triggers a proning animation

But it's a little janky, doesn't track very well

And also won't work if you lay down on your bed. You pretty much have to put your headset on the floor @sharp zinc

It doesn't track your whole body, it just assumes you're laying

[sharp zinc]

fair enough

I screwed my avatar up then

back to the drawing board with meat

[sharp zinc]

The Quest will most likely produce the same result the Windows Mixed Reality headsets produce when put on a table or the floor. They both have controllers and both use inside out tracking.

the only difference would occur if they had different animations in the differnt versions of vrchat

i've used an oculus rift, an htc vive, and a windows mixed reality headset, and they all look the same when put on the floor on vrchat

it all depends on the difference in height between where you put your controllers and your headset. also adjusting your floor height wrong will mess the lying down animation up because it will always think your above the ground

at least on outside in tracking

on the quest/wmr inside out tracking i remember floor height still being an issue

[north willow]

Please take that discussion to another channel. This is not a place to discuss the pros and cons of the hardware.

[sharp zinc]

sorry i was just answering a question.

that was asked this past sunday

[north willow]

👍

[dire rivet]

heads up guys! May is a good month to get assets!

[hexed grove]

is there a way to tiling textures within an atlas?

[digital thistle]

Would probably need a specific shader to do that

[patent mist]

@hexed grove you can tile to some extent but ive ran into issues when tiling more then 5 times

Actually im wrong. i didnt tile i modified uv's.

So tiling should work will just make atlas bigger

astleast what mesh bake docs say

But it depends on what tyour using to atlas

Since i use mesh baker it say in doc's "If a material uses tiling then that tiling will be baked into the atlas up to the “maximum tiling bake size”."

[left holly]

Great for the may discound

[rare apex]

Pretty hard to tile within an atlas unless the atlas is very big... Which should not be the case on quest

Let's say you have a 1024x1024 texture, I'd reserve areas as big as 256*256 to the texture you want to tile, sacrifying a bit of the quality

Then I'd split the area you need to tile, e.g. a wide ground, into various squares and map the UVs to the 256*256 square you reserved

Adding a new material is going to be slower than adding some more polygons for tiling

[slate cradle]

Quest can’t do full body but PC users can and quest users need to see it properly - make sure quest versions of avatars are full body fixed 😛

[safe fiber]

Could Quest users Link their Account With Steam or annything?

[patent mist]

Realsiticly you should have your steam account linked to your vrchat account

unless you wanted 2 separate accounts

[rare apex]

Yeah you should link it to the VRChat account

[safe fiber]

Awesome,Thanks!

[sharp zinc]

does image size next to the 1024x1024 mater, png or jpg etc?. looking forward to my key for roly poly fat fat avatar

[tribal tartan]

make sure to generate mipmaps, crunch compression can help, mitchell scaling is much better than bilinear for most atlased avatars. if you wanna go a step further you can bypass Unity's own mipmaps, and bake them in yourself by converting your PNG to a DDS texture, Unity already does that on it's own, but if you want specific scaling for mipmaps it's useful.

[sharp zinc]

@tribal tartan thanks alot!

[ebon spade]

DDS imports with the wrong colors and it sucks

Washed out

[tribal tartan]

oh, f

[rare apex]

If you aren't going to edit Mipmaps, you can still use any format you want, JPG, PNG, PSD...

Unity will still convert it internally so no big issue

[ebon spade]

There's rarely a reason to use DDS yourself unless you know absolutely sure what you're doing

[sharp zinc]

is there a way to merge eyeblink with extra face expresiobs and main animator which not on the body into one for quest

[ebon spade]

Yeah, put it in the idle animation

[sharp zinc]

thanks!!

in the animator controller or costum over ride controller?

[ebon spade]

The custom override controller

Custom Standing Anims

The animator controller doesn't matter

[sharp zinc]

@ebon spade does that stil work? the legacy animations

[ebon spade]

No, legacy doesn't work

Bake it all into the idle animation

[sharp zinc]

@ebon spade how to do that? soundsvery intresting

do they not recomade against costum over ridecontrolers for quest/default avatar submision?

[ebon spade]

For default avatars then yes, but that mostly seems to apply to gestures. Custom idle movement is probably fine, but don't put too many bones into tails or ears

[sharp zinc]

any tips how animation baking works

[ebon spade]

You make an idle animation yourself using one of various Unity or Blender animation tutorials

Make sure to incorporate the blinking and other movements that you want

[sharp zinc]

thanks

[sharp zinc]

did do cats , that worked to

[exotic mesa]

Trying to use the atlas generation feature in CATS. Installed the additional plugin it requires but now I'm prompted with "Installation complete! Please restart blender", after restarting it still says the same. Restarted it multiple times now.
Anyone else had this?

[slow plover]

Try running Blender as an admin, that usually fixes it for me.

[exotic mesa]

I'm actually using Blender in a mac, I don't think it has run as admin. Thanks anyway

[calm mauve]

@exotic mesa I encountered the same issue trying to use CATS on Linux. I think either CATS or the Material Combiner addon are just only compatible with Windows.

[exotic mesa]

I just tried it on windows and it works

👌

[north willow]

I would report that to the CATS author. It may not be a big deal to fix if it just needs to be smarter about checking it's install path or something

[exotic mesa]

By the way I fixed it on mac. Gotta install pip and then use pip to install Pillow in Blender's python environment

[north willow]

Oh yeah! 👍

[copper zinc]

@exotic mesa I've had the same problem on Mac, my work around was remoting to my desktop for atlasing lol. Interested in your solution though

[exotic mesa]

It wasn't hard after I found out what was the problem, to do it:
https://blender.stackexchange.com/questions/56011/how-to-install-pip-for-blenders-bundled-python
Follow the instructions in the first answer, then instead of 'install scipy' do 'install Pillow'

[slate cradle]

So idol animations do work on the quest, someone was telling me yesterday that the animation over rider doesn’t work on quest

[tribal tartan]

animation overrides work on quest, you can see all that's disabled here https://docs.vrchat.com/docs/quest-content-optimization

[dapper chasm]

Yeah @slate cradle my info was a little older and wrong. Sorry

[slate cradle]

Still not sure about hand triggered animations but idle is there. I suspect props work too just no audio allowed

Most quest avatars I see use no props at all and I think quest users are missing out if they are possible

[floral crow]

@tribal tartan proof that animation overrides work on quest?

[tribal tartan]

I havent used them myself yet...

[floral crow]

Like I can have custom emote animations?

I tend to put alot of Fortnite emotes

in my avatars

[tribal tartan]

fortnite dances should work fine, but you wont have music on quest

[floral crow]

Because they're better alternatives to the current ones provided by vrchat

I am not adding music

[tribal tartan]

yeah, animation overrides work

you can only have one animator tho

so you cant do nested animations, like a gun with a trigger

[floral crow]

What part of the Quest content optimization that says anything about animation override?

[tribal tartan]

none, hence why you can use it

[floral crow]

Oh, I see

[rare apex]

Yeah yesterday I met a guy (on Quest) with some facial animation made with overrides, you can do it no problem

[floral crow]

Can't really do facial animations since nearly everything's scuffed

[rare apex]

Eh well that depends on the model anyways

[floral crow]

But I deffo putting emotes

Depends, indeed lol

[rare apex]

XD

On a side note, we visited a room with some anime cross-platform avatars

[floral crow]

Rare

[rare apex]

And unfortunately they were basically the original MMD avatars, with automatic decimation

[floral crow]

oof

[rare apex]

They looked terrible on Quest because there was basically no work whatsoever from the creator

[floral crow]

I am mostly using League avatars rn

[rare apex]

Missing triangles, broken rigging, deformed mesh on many points, no visemes

[floral crow]

That's why I don't use mmd

for Quest

[rare apex]

I really hope creators will put some effort in it, instead of trhowing that into decimator and call it a day...

Hm you may use MMD avatars indeed but they need quite some work to look fine on Quest

I believe it's almost faster to model them from scratch : D

[tribal tartan]

ah, so someone made a scuffed avatars world, Im planning on a world with all those popular MMD models, but ported correctly

[rare apex]

Oh that would be a great contribution to the community indeed...

I believe the most important thing is to keep the visemes working

[tribal tartan]

you know, slowly taking your time, applying decimation modifiers to separates parts of the mesh, doing retopo where needed.

[rare apex]

Yeah

[tribal tartan]

idk about keeping original visemes, sometimes dropping them completely and creating new ones is a lot cleaner

and not that hard

[rare apex]

Yeah I mean that basically, "keeping" like, having them working some way or the other

[tribal tartan]

ah yeah

[rare apex]

Maybe that's the wrong word, sorry

I tried one of these scuffed MMD x Quest avatars yesterday and in fact, PC users could see visemes, Quest users couldn't

[tribal tartan]

any avatar should minimum have, blinking, eye tracking, and mouth visemes

[rare apex]

Indeed

[tribal tartan]

my current quest ava doesnt blink tho

cause Im a lazy cunt

[rare apex]

About Eye Tracking, I still don't know how that works

[floral crow]

Vrchat avatars can have quest and non quest version

[rare apex]

So I'll need some help later, prior to finalizing my avatars

[tribal tartan]

you boot up cats, give it your 2 eye bones

click the button

and it creates correctly parented and named bones

and vrchat will automatically use those when you dump your model in Unity

[rare apex]

Hm I could do that manually with C4D I believe (I don't use Blender)

I guess I just have to know the correct bone names after all

[tribal tartan]

yeah

[rare apex]

Is there a reference guide for that anyways?

[tribal tartan]

probably

[floral crow]

You can do all the avatar creations in C4D but use blender for VRChat avatar preparation only

[tribal tartan]

also, it's really best to create separate bones with clone weight paints

so you can use the original eye bones in animations

[floral crow]

CATS is pretty useful to make your avatars work for vrchat

You can simply just use it for that and the avatar creation on c4d

[rare apex]

Also, I'd love to know if there is a sorta "community approved standard" when talking about visemes... Something like: thumbs up = smile, point index = frown, etc etc

[tribal tartan]

I always go through CATS before Unity no matter the source of my avatar

it's just way too useful

[floral crow]

Yep

[rare apex]

Nice, I believe I'll get Blender and CATS then

[floral crow]

It can be
Maya -> CATS Blender -> Unity
C4D -> CATS Blender -> Unity

[rare apex]

Yeah

[floral crow]

You don't need to be forced to use blender for avatar creation

[tribal tartan]

generally
✋ = 😃
🖐 = 😄

[floral crow]

Currently, I don't put the extra blink or viseme detail rn

on my quest avatars

[rare apex]

Imho the essential is to keep the visemes that can convey your mood

Otherwise there would be an... "emotional gap"? between Quest and PC users

[tribal tartan]

sometimes I also do ✌ = 😉

[rare apex]

And it would look weird

[tribal tartan]

its mostly for selfies tho, and cameras dont even work on quest....

[rare apex]

Yeah : C

Thanks for the ref tho

You need to take a pic with the Oculus Sharing tools, not the nicest way but it kinda works

[tribal tartan]

but, especially for quest users, you want to keep any emote that isn't 🤘 the same finger wise

because of how gestures work with touch controllers

[rare apex]

Yeah in fact I see people still keeping the finger gestures together with animation overrides

[tribal tartan]

some youtube videos have the finger gesture templates

you can download them as a zip

[rare apex]

On a side note, I still need to get used to how VRC animates the fingers while using the controllers, it's different and weird from the First Steps demo (which imho feels like friggin magic the first time you try)

Ah good!

[tribal tartan]

do the quest controllers also have the sensors on the buttons and stick to tell if youre barely touching them?

[rare apex]

Yep but they are all different anyways (or at least most of them)

Yeah they do!

[tribal tartan]

oooooh

[rare apex]

That's why the first time I tried I was like "this is some black magic stuff"

Actually incredibly stupid tech-wise, but the feeling is so awesome

[north willow]

#avatar-quest #avatar-rigging

[eager gorge]

So my model is pretty dang optimized with one mesh and one material, but I can't get the number of tris close to 5k, best I've gotten is 15k, would this be ok until I'm able to find ways to get it even further down?

[left holly]

if the sdk let you its ok

[solid crown]

Not a true statement

But Q has this

[split lily]

Quest limits aren't in yet, 5k is recommended because that's guaranteed to work

15k is faaaaaaaar from guaranteed

[left holly]

you can probably do around 7-8k easily

[eager gorge]

I'd probably be able to get it down to 8k if I retroscope the head in blender from scratch.

retopology*

[livid trellis]

The sdk will let u do 60k. Doesnt mean itll be visible for quest users. In the next update there will be a given limit.

Its under 20k but above 5k, according to tupper

[eager gorge]

Neat, I'll try to get it as low as I possibly can in the meantime

CATs is being really uncooperative with this 😛

[tribal tartan]

thats because you need to separate your materials, use a mix of auto decimation, decimate modifiers on separate meshes, and just unsubdividing and merging faces by hand to retopo.

[eager gorge]

I keep forgetting about the dissolve feature

[eager gorge]

I was able to get it at least down by another 2k now at 13k, should be okay for now until I have the time to retopo and redo all the shapekeys.

[latent pivot]

I don't see this in the optimization docs for Quest, but it might be worth mentioning that your import settings for audio can make an impact on performance. VRChat is historically CPU-bound so when it comes to Quest builds - it might be best to use lossless PCM (or even ADPCM) over Vorbis to trade CPU usage for larger audio files, if feasible.

[rare apex]

That’s a good find, thanks

[urban plume]

Audio files are set to decompress on load by default, so it's a matter of prioritizing file size and loading time. You may also need/want to decompress on play for larger files, where you are willing to give up some CPU perf for more available RAM.

[latent pivot]

^ Le balancing act! I actually have no idea how much RAM the Quest has -- but there's an amazing article online about best practices for dealing with audio clips for mobile and/or PC that I'm gonna try to dig up and post here in a few that I think would be vry helpful.

https://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/ZanderHulme/20190107/333794/Unity_Audio_Import_Optimisation__getting_more_BAM_for_your_RAM.php Super helpful documentation for understanding + optimizing audio import settings

[sharp zinc]

the quest has 4gb ram but it's shared vram so expect about 2gb room for for world assets

that's a LOT ... the xbox 360 has 512mb ram

[tender ore]

@sharp zinc There's less than that available for world assets

VRChat can only use about half of the 4GB of RAM, the rest is reserved by the OS, compositor, etc.

[sharp zinc]

what would you say is a better estimate?

@tender ore how much does the client take up?

[tender ore]

@sharp zinc From a cold start in my empty "Blue" world, a little under a gigabyte.

[sharp zinc]

that's pretty good

hours of audio is a bad idea packed into the world anyway

[tender ore]

Cold start is ~670 MB, but it jumps up a bit when you open the menus and the images get loaded. Up to ~750 MB after scrolling around the world menu a bunch.

RAM usage alone isn't the whole problem

There's also memory fragmentation

Singular large assets like long high quality audio files can fail to load even if there's plenty of free RAM

if the file is larger than any contiguous chunk of available RAM.

[sharp zinc]

we need more docs 😉

and best practices

spill the beans

[latent pivot]

The issue becomes there's not gonna be a one size fits all solution depending on the audio file. You can use PCM over Vorbis + and have it streaming so it never goes into the RAM at all....but if you have multiple voices playing this way; you'll be increasing CPU usage quite a bit. Decompress on Load will be compressed within the build as whatever you choose but will decompress as "cpu-friendly" lossless into RAM so you'll still get the RAM tax of that.

[sharp zinc]

what is the minimum requirements for the quest

and also is there a new sdk

[sharp flume]

[swift sky]

@sharp zinc https://docs.vrchat.com/docs/quest-content-optimization

there's some docs for VRChat on Oculus Quest that might help you

and a page to page doc that shows you some stuff (minus the Oculus Go build) along with the recommended numbers for avatars and worlds

[sharp zinc]

Mine is Optimized and Ready for the Oculus Quest. It is perfect

[rare apex]

Edge breaks are a bit messed up though

[tribal tartan]

Oculus' own docs are actually really good somehow https://developer.oculus.com/documentation/unity/latest/concepts/unity-perf/

and for reference, we're actually given lots of leeway considering the vrchat client overhead, and other factors, seeing as these are Oculus' Unity on Android VR guidelines https://bocchi.is-pretty.cool/8reVyS5.png

[rare apex]

With the current VRC Quest specs... If you sum 50k tris per World, plus 5k tris per Avatar, with 10 avatars, you get exactly 100k

I guess draw calls also will be around 100 between World, Avatars, UI

[mossy tulip]

if they had avatar distance culling that would be helpful, like.

[ebon spade]

So avatars turn completely invisible from some distance away?

[rare apex]

Or maybe just use "2D imposters"

https://assetstore.unity.com/packages/tools/modeling/imposter-system-69651

This thing works magic, we once tested a cheaper version on Android (it was another plugin) and turned a 5 fps scene into a 45 fps one

[fathom nebula]

Isn't that basically what Google Seurat does?

[ebon spade]

Sort of

[rare apex]

Actually not, very different

Seurat will just delete triangles that are not supposed to be seen, also it's done in the editor, and it's done only once- you then keep the scene as it is

Imposter technique instead works at runtime and converts to a 2D plane every object that is further than some meters (10-20 usually). If you get close, the object goes back to its original 3D form

[fathom nebula]

Ahhhhh

[rare apex]

It works on non-static objects too, so a 70.000 triangle avatar will just become a 2 triangles avatar when far away : D

It works by rendering objects every n frames instead of every single frame; the further the object is, the more the "wait" frames

Since objects are very far, you can't really tell the difference, especially if they are static or non animated

[ebon spade]

Does Seurat work in VRC? Since worlds can have their own shaders even on Quest

Or does it only partially work?

[rare apex]

Seurat is just a 3D modeling tool after all, so yeah of course it does

But I believe people are highly overstimating what it actually does...

Let's say you may need Seurat if you model a World without thinking much about "blind spots" and just putting objects in mindlessy

In that case, Seurat may help quite much

But a well modeled world won't get any real help from Seurat

Basically it works like this:

You open a Unity scene with your world, load the Seurat plugin. Then you define the areas where you believe the player camera will stay in- ideally, the player won't ever escape these areas

fixed a few messages down
Then Seurat runs... Using a temporary camera, it will position that camera on every single possible spot inside the area you defined, one spot at time of course

And for every spot, it will look at all the geometry around, and mark every triangle as visible or not visible from that spot

At the end of the cycle, every non visible triangle is deleted, and voilà

You have a world that looks very broken from outside, but still as good as the original from the defined area

If a player exits the defined area, he will see the "broken" parts that Seurat deleted

[ebon spade]

Ah, so that's how it works. Interesting, thanks

Wouldn't that also result in performance increases on desktop?

[rare apex]

Np! That's what I know about it, hope it's right lol.

[ebon spade]

Although it may be less important on desktop

[rare apex]

Yeah, less triangles basically

[fathom nebula]

Tbh I would always aim for as much optimization as possible without damaging the original

[rare apex]

Yeah me too... I'm already planning my own World project to not have useless areas

WAIT

It's a bit different than how I explained it, fukk

You still define the visibility area

But then, instead of deleting triangles, it actually creates a mesh that tries to replicate what you see, using a triangle count you define

Well way different... I wasn't remembering this right, sorry

[fathom nebula]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTI_79f02Lg

Quick overview of how it works and what it does

[rare apex]

https://developers.google.com/vr/discover/seurat
Yeah the website too explains it fairly quickly

[latent pivot]

that's really clever, it's kinda like doing photogrammetry with photos from a limited POV but in a digital space

google was like: yo dawg, heard you like creating 3d models from photos so now you can make 3d models from photos of 3d models

[humble canyon]

I wonder if folks have done photogrammetry using Game screenshots

[latent pivot]

I think I've seen some people doing that over on SketchFab!

[humble canyon]

https://skfb.ly/6J8q6

https://skfb.ly/6KOFw

[slow plover]

Users have done photogrammetry using in-VRChat screenshots actually 😄 but only for fairly simple two-plane parallax 3D. It does make for cool pictures on the wall.

[sharp zinc]

any more news on a concrete poly limit for Quest?

[livid trellis]

below 20k above 5k

[junior light]

VRChat [version: Unity 2017.4.15f1 (5d485b4897a7)]

d3d11.dll caused an Access Violation (0xc0000005)
in module d3d11.dll at 0033:868527b0.

y always crash when i run vrc?

only in first roading screen

i fixed it = check admisistrator to vrchat.exe

[ebon spade]

That's a very bad idea, and also this is probably not the right channel.

There have been instances where an exploit in VRChat could harm other files on your system. Running the game as adminstrator gives it free reign to also do this in "protected" folders (like Windows)

[lean kernel]

https://youtu.be/guUpGjEMqa8?t=53 ( its a time stamp) does anyone think they can help me doing this for a quest model ?

[lean kernel]

Thanks for the answers guys

[lean kernel]

Lmao

[tender cloud]

Is the 5000 poly limit mostly out of concern from vertex shader evaluations or rasterizer load? That is, should I also be worried about double vertices or UV seams from a perf perspective?

[rare apex]

I don't think that will hurt performance in general, unless every single triangle is detached from the others (faceted-style like)

But even then, it's 5k... It's pretty low anyways

[oblique dagger]

Best peak is 20k

Over than that, you get warnings

[rare apex]

Yeah but they said they will lower it

[wide ridge]

Get warnings?

[rare apex]

As Tupper said, more than 5k, way less than 20k

[tribal tartan]

https://discordapp.com/channels/189511567539306508/565256303614623767/584586323394822154

[wide ridge]

Poly count doesent impact performance that much, but quest is a mobile platform so every little thing counts

[tribal tartan]

That's really all the info we need

packed into 2 messages

[rare apex]

Ahw thanks.

That should be pinned anyways

[tribal tartan]

bahka, you see? I've been trying to explain that to Nabu

he's a stubborn one

He's so gonna cry when the official limit is 7.5k and he realizes patience is important

[rare apex]

7.5k is really good imho

[tribal tartan]

yeah

my avi is at 4.5k rn and it looks great

close to the linked message

tupper shows one at 3.4

[oblique dagger]

Just gotta remove the body meshes hidden under outfits 😄

[rare apex]

The 3.4k one is great

[tribal tartan]

thats really not the only thing

[wide ridge]

I say make 7.5k the instance poly cap

[tribal tartan]

screams in retopo, retexturing and normalmaps

wdym instance poly cap?

[rare apex]

Just gotta remove the body meshes hidden under outfits
You have to do this anyways, not only on Quest

[oblique dagger]

Most people do not '-';

[tribal tartan]

as Ive said 30 times, most people dont even know how to press 3 buttons in CATS

[rare apex]

That's a total waste of performance

[wide ridge]

Basically it takes the world poly count and adds all the current avatars poly count. That number needs to be under 7k, newer users won't show up if it's over that cap :smart:

[tribal tartan]

7k for everyone is way way too small

you do realize worlds are max 50k, oculus recommends max 100k in a scene

you're going way way too small

[wide ridge]

Optimization! I'm sure they can find a way to cope whit it

[tribal tartan]

like, everyone is a fucking quad with a png now

[wide ridge]

[tribal tartan]

or a PS1 model

[oblique dagger]

I would love to keep my model under 20k

[tribal tartan]

keep your model under 7500

[rare apex]

7.5k for everyone rotfl now that's insane haha

[oblique dagger]

But... back then I recalled.... I tried uploading Miia.. her snake tail is frigging 19k

Tail ALONE

[rare apex]

19k for the tail wtf?