quest-optimization

[rose minnow]

ik my case is not universal

[bitter hare]

Your frame rate tolerance must be very high, because I can't hit 72 FPS anywhere if there's a VeryPoor avatar.

[rose minnow]

but. i think the only time i ever have framerate stutters / lag is when someone with a VeryPoor avatar joins, and then it settles

[sharp zinc]

we just need more anime creators that actually make original scratch content, because if they did they could just construct models low poly in first place

[bitter hare]

Kitbashed MMD models that weren't made to be used it games. 😩

[sharp zinc]

yeah its the culture to be messy

[rose minnow]

ig i don’t care enough then? i really only care if my fps drops below like. 40. maybe thats just me

[sharp zinc]

we have to change the culture for anything to really change

in my opinion anyway

[bitter hare]

I usually run at 30-40 on PC even, but that's in high pop worlds, without any VeryPoor avatars (events ban them a lot of the time)

Quest I usually sit between 30-50 wherever I go.

My solution is to just hide every VeryPoor avatar.
Can't stay on Quest too long without getting into a conversation about why people should actually put some effort into optimization. xD

[sharp zinc]

fortunately for both of you I am in the works of a research paper that will extensively test what exactly impacts framerate and possibly determine a more accurate guideline to performance

a shame vrc doesn't release their inside testing i mean they must of done it, no?

[bitter hare]

oh yea, have you got transparent materials on that?
supposedly the mobile GPUs suffer greatly from rendering those.

you'd have to test on standalone, of course.

[sharp zinc]

yes I am testing that

[rose minnow]

obviously optimisation would be preferred, but creators shouldn’t be THAT limited because they want players to actually see their avatars

[sharp zinc]

im only doing standalone tests for this test, no pc yet

[bitter hare]

it's not that limiting, I could do a rough optimization to most things within a couple hours.

if even that

[sharp zinc]

mainly because quest 2 has only one processor and they all perform the same, as opposed to PCs, obv they have a wide variety of performance depending on their hardware

[bitter hare]

decimation modifier and I'd do it in 15 minutes

[bitter hare]

Heh, would be fun to see Quest 1 performance in comparison. xD

but most people are Quest 2 users

[rose minnow]

there must be a reason that 90% of my avatars are very poor. why would creators still decide not to dip below the threshold if it were that easy?

[sharp zinc]

I only have a Q2, cant test Q1

laziness I swear to you

retopo isnt easy thats why

[bitter hare]

because they can't be bothered to put effort into quest

[sharp zinc]

well retopo at first isnt so its a turnoff

[bitter hare]

Kitbashing is easy compared to retopo, for sure. xD

[sharp zinc]

but it can significantly reduce polys without losing any noticable detail

[bitter hare]

people don't do 3D modelling a lot of the time, they just take props and slap them onto a pre-existing base and call it a day.

[sharp zinc]

yea its just easier

[rose minnow]

if it requires too much effort for ANYONE to do then it’s not that simple

[bitter hare]

a character that wears a jacket doesn't need the torso underneath the jacket, for example.

people still don't remove the body underneath out of laziness

[sharp zinc]

ill let you argue this becoming 2v1

[slow hearth]

its not too much effort, majority are either inept or lazy

there are tons of low hanging fruit in optimization that rarely gets done

[bitter hare]

For the extremely lazy, there's even a Unity tool that does a rough optimization for you.

https://markcreator.gumroad.com/l/Polytool

[slow hearth]

and thus questy performance becomes a shit show

remember

very poor is supposed to be the EXCEPTION

[bitter hare]

Heh, Markcreator works at VRC now, don't they? xD

[rose minnow]

would these low hanging fruit / rough optimisations even allow avatars to dip below the threshold?

[slow hearth]

its about damn time we get some caps in place

either performance caps, or a limit on how many very poor avatars an account can upload

[sharp zinc]

Its easy but I think you guys are presenting it as too easy lol

[rose minnow]

i cannot name a single time i have seen someone complain that there are too many VeryPoor avatars. it’s always been “damn i crashed. oh well”

[slow hearth]

the hardest part is lowering poly count without making it look like crap

that requires a little experience in what can be decimated without losing visual fidelity

[bitter hare]

I mean, the polytool method is extremely easy.
Blender, fair enough, people don't want to spend time learning how to use it.

[slow hearth]

shit like materials and bones can be merged away with a few clicks in blender

like its piss easy

meshes too

only consideration would be if you target X or Y with animations in unity

for a toggle

[rose minnow]

so like. just because i know VERY little about avatar making,

[sharp zinc]

i have still yet to test cats baking for tex combining automatically, though the mat combiner is shit and shouldnt be used

[bitter hare]

yeah, reaching Good/Medium on Quest without stuff looking off is hard.

[slow hearth]

heres the thing

people think they can rock 8k resolution avatars in the quest

bros

[bitter hare]

Some furry avatar creators have started making Quest avatars come with the base though, so they're properly made Quest avatars.

Why is it always the furries?

[slow hearth]

its a phone

it WILL look kinda mediocre

[sharp zinc]

oh boy

[rose minnow]

how much more taxing are toggles? i know they can vary but, typically, how much?

[slow hearth]

the toggles themselves arent taxing

its the way they're being implemented into the avatar

[rose minnow]

i c

[sharp zinc]

animation controllers actually can cause alot of perf issues ive heard, will be tested in scope in study

especially transitions apparently

[slow hearth]

eh only if you use one of those cursed gigantic controllers

[bitter hare]

AnyState transitions in particular are bad.

Basically you don't want to check 50+ conditions every frame, and AnyState always checks its transition conditions.

[slow hearth]

its fine if you keep it in moderation, if you dont have an entire wardrobe in your avatar then its unlikely you'll notice controller performance loss

another thing that helps keep peerf stats down

limit the scope of each avatar

[rose minnow]

yeah but it would have to also be low quality for PC/PCVR players, no? i know there are certain things PC/PCVR players can see and questies can’t, but how would those things make up for it to that extent?

[slow hearth]

select an outfit and at most do some on/off toggles

[rose minnow]

(again, i know jack.)

[slow hearth]

switching clothes means you have to be carrying that shit in VRAM all the time

[sharp zinc]

you can upload a circle to PC, and a cube to Quest on the same avatar id

[bitter hare]

PC and Quest uploads are separate, but on the same avatar ID.
My avatars on Quest don't look exactly like the PC side.

[slow hearth]

you can upload completely different versions to PC / Quest

you can make a good looking PC version, then optimize for quest so that the phone processor doesnt blow up

[rose minnow]

so i could have a completely different avatar to PCVR than i do on quest?

that.

[bitter hare]

yep

as long as they use the same avatar blueprint ID

[slow hearth]

if you keep a reasonable performance on PC then its so much easier to optimize for the quest

people complain because all their avatar are abysmally shit performance, to the point where its difficult to optimize even for powerful PCs

[bitter hare]

Me when I see Quest users' PC-side being VeryPoor: oh boy, I wonder what it's like on their side

[slow hearth]

then yeah no shit its impossible to optimize for quest

[slow hearth]

THIS

holy shit

i have a reasonably powerful PC

some avatars straight up drop my framerate by 30% by themselves

i refuse to imagine how those behave on quest

[rose minnow]

and would these avatars have different ratings?? i mean yes, they naturally have different thresholds, but could a pc’s Poor become a quest’s Medium? (example)

[bitter hare]

yeah... there's a reason club worlds don't allow VeryPoor. 😅
With 60 people in the world, you go from a playable 30 FPS to an agonizing 15 FPS because of those avatars.

[slow hearth]

Quest and PC have different targets for performance

yes

an excellent PC avatar is about a poor performance Quest avatar

about that ballpark

[bitter hare]

Poly count is a bit different since PC can spit polys like mad

[rose minnow]

but could it be the opposite if they have different avatars for the same IS?

ID*

[slow hearth]

the poly limits is harsher on the quest yes

[bitter hare]

opposite?

[slow hearth]

if your excellent pc avatar is under 20k polys then it'll be medium/good on Quest

[rose minnow]

like,

[bitter hare]

Poor, Medium on Quest is 15K

[slow hearth]

ah whoops

[rose minnow]

could a PC’s Poor be anything above that on Quest IF they are different? or did i interpret wrong?

[slow hearth]

yeah the poly is the biggest difference, really

[rose minnow]

or let’s say, on PC the avatar is VeryPoor, but the quest end is optimised to be Poor or Medium. is this a thing that can happen?

[slow hearth]

PC metrics do not port over to the Quest

[bitter hare]

PC rank is much more lenient than Quest rank due to the hardware differences, so if an avatar is Good on PC, it could very well be VeryPoor on Quest.

PC GPUs are good at higher poly counts.

Good rank on PC can have 70 000 triangles.

[slow hearth]

like we said, you can upload completely different versions of an avatar in the PC and Quest sides

and they'll be judged by the PC or Quest metrics

for performance

[bitter hare]

Yep, can upload a 2 triangle square on the Quest side and a VeryPoor piece of garbage on PC. xD

[rose minnow]

okayy gotcha that’s all i needed 😭

[bitter hare]

Tbh I hate it when people put a square as their Quest avatar.

Just spitting in Quest users' faces.

[slow hearth]

so if you make a Very poor PCVR avatar, optimize the flying fuck out of it and upload to quest, then you can have it be excellent on Quest

[sharp zinc]

its pretty funny

[rose minnow]

tbh it’s more insulting than a default fallback

[slow hearth]

So very poor PC, excellent quest ratings

lol

im nice to questies, all my avatars are green rated for quest 😏

[bitter hare]

but yea to clarify a bit, it's your PC/Quest judging the performance rank, the servers have no idea what the rank is.

So if the avatar loads on Quest, the Quest compares to its limits.
If it loads on PC, it compares to PC limits.

[slow hearth]

some people go "lemme enable your avatar... Oh! its on already"

[bitter hare]

🙏

[slow hearth]

lol

[rose minnow]

LOLL

[slow hearth]

enabling avatars is like a tic for 'em, its automatic 😂

[rose minnow]

but yeah. i understand putting caps in place, but would removing VeryPoor outright mean they go to a fallback OR avatars would have to optimise forcefully?

[slow hearth]

no idea

[rose minnow]

honestly i only do it when i talk to them

[slow hearth]

depends on how they implement it

[rose minnow]

if it’s the former that’d piss me off. i already went through the first while of Q2 coming to VRC, i don’t wanna go back to fallback season again

[slow hearth]

most reasonable assumption is that they just delete the very poor quest avatars and rating

so very poor will behave as if the avatar is PC only

and you'd see a fallback

OR

they've done this beforee

they would grandfather existing avatars into the game

block the upload of future very poor avis

[bitter hare]

yeah, thing is VRChat doesn't know the performance rank, they'd need the client to flag avatars over time to remove them outright.

[slow hearth]

and life moves on

if you havee a very poor... ya keep it

if you dont

[bitter hare]

grandfathering is much simpler (and causes less outrage, heh).

[slow hearth]

ya dont

ah true, perf is checked realtime

an SDK block is more reasonable

[rose minnow]

istg if all my avatars say “Unavailable” i’m gonna leave bro 😭

[bitter hare]

Existing ones would probably stay.

[sharp zinc]

we need to make the eboy style of avatars but make it optimized and shove it in their faces, this is only way to get real change

[bitter hare]

Just an SDK block preventing people from uploading new VeryPoor avatars.

[rose minnow]

make it the only fallback

[slow hearth]

imo its about damn time vrchat does something about VPoor avatars.

its an epidemic on PC

[sharp zinc]

fallback already hard capped at good rating

[bitter hare]

Tbh there would probably still be VeryPoor avatars, just with some hard limits to avoid people uploading 300 000 tri meshes with 30 materials.

[rose minnow]

wtf do u MEAN epidemic

[slow hearth]

the thing is

once a creator has hit very poor

[sharp zinc]

these guys make it sound dramatic lol this why no one wants to optimize

[slow hearth]

they have zero reason to care about holding back peformance loss

[bitter hare]

sadly fallbacks can't be made into public avatars. :/
gotta upload them yourself

[sharp zinc]

i heckle sometimes but

....

[slow hearth]

because after all, whats gonna happen? they gonna hit very very poor down bad horrible performance rating or something?

so if you are one polygon over the limit

or 3000 materials over the limit, its literally the same

so no one gives a shit

[bitter hare]

Except a small few. 😅
But those few also make non-VeryPoor variants of the same avatars with a couple features removed.

[slow hearth]

if there was a way to filter out these truly horrible avatars that skew the rating, most of the issues would be solved

because the limit for very poor is indeed not too bad, if you stick close to it

[bitter hare]

Yeah... VeryPoor is a spectrum, unlike the other ranks.

[slow hearth]

the problem is that there is no bottom line to it

so people go, and go and go until one avatar takes up like 50 fps of a powerful computer

[rose minnow]

i feel like there should be just a cap TO verypoor, not removing it

[slow hearth]

and those are not rare, not rare at all

[rose minnow]

or at least another rating that questies cant see

[bitter hare]

ah, this was what I was suggesting. 😅 Hardcapping stuff on Quest, but still having a VeryPoor rating.

[slow hearth]

imo, cap very poor like a range

[rose minnow]

yeah

[slow hearth]

then after that range make it auto disabled like it happens on the quest

[rose minnow]

oh, my bad. i interpreted you wrong lol

[slow hearth]

like a "Too Poor" rating

[rose minnow]

YES that would be perfect

[bitter hare]

on PC? Idk to begin with they can make it so VeryPoor isn't shown by default. 😂
Confused as to why it is like that.

[slow hearth]

there needs to be a reason for people to care about performance

[slow hearth]

Yes on PC

[bitter hare]

Quest even hides Poor by default.

[slow hearth]

Its on because its always been on

[rose minnow]

^^^^^

[slow hearth]

people would bitch about it

the only issue is that VPoor doesnt have a bottom, make the limit very generous so people dont bitch about it

then anything below that, into the "bro wtf is that avatar" kinda territory

auto hide

and cry about it

[bitter hare]

hohoh, Too Poor show, but you have to show on every world load? 😏

[slow hearth]

world load?

[bitter hare]

Currently the near clip override option is a thing, but it doesn't save between world hops.

Since the world creator is meant to have control of the camera behaviour.

[slow hearth]

aah

make it a hassle? 🤣

[bitter hare]

Yes!

[slow hearth]

sounds good

[slow hearth]

kinda want to drop this into a canny

just to see the shitshow people make about it

a very poor limit, before being auto hidden

[sharp zinc]

i think its a canny already im not sure

[slow hearth]

haha

[sharp zinc]

people in the communitiy itself needs to take its own action if it matters so much

idk maybe have like free optimization classes in those eboy gumroad artist discords

[slow hearth]

lol i shouldnt have to teach people how to unfuck their avatars so my pc doesnt blow up

[sharp zinc]

and have people realize its much easier to make a low poly model as beginner

like n64

well bad comparison

i know of cute models that can be low poly

[slow hearth]

limits should exist to make people realize they need to optimize, needing to optimize makes people look into how

and looking into how makes the avg creator more knowledgeable into how to make decent performing avatars

[bitter hare]

motivation needed.
education is nice, but people won't come looking for it.

[rose minnow]

thats actually a much better idea than removing it like they said they would tbh

[bitter hare]

and if you force it upon them, eeeh. 😅

[slow hearth]

unless shit knocks at their door, 99% of people dont give a shit

they just want it to work

[sharp zinc]

^ and when these communities are full and surrounded by people who dont optimize they wont bother

so you need to infiltrate those communities if u want stuff to happen

[slow hearth]

it worked? people see it? great, they're done working on it

[bitter hare]

Back in 2020 I posted a Quest Fallback version of an avatar in the asset sharing channel of said avatar's Discord.
I've seen a handful of people actually use it, and all they had to do was replace the textures.

Convenience is a big thing I guess. 😅

If you can make it easy for people to optimize, they might just do it.

I'd wager they'd also need some Quest users in their friend group for the motivation though.

Heck I've seen some people who actively don't do Quest optimization because they're against Meta.

They're Good on PC, just not making Quest content, fair enough.

[rose minnow]

bc they’re against meta ..

wh a t.

[slow hearth]

y'all overestimate these people, you could literally beam the knowledge straight into their brain

if it makes kitbashing their 678th e-boy for the day too slow, nothing will change

[sharp zinc]

could be true I don't happen to interact with their communities

its been awhile

[bitter hare]

Yeah, I don't support Meta's platform, I just buy games from Steam and such. 🤷‍♂️

Right now VRChat Mobile is only on Meta devices, so I see the point.

Maybe one day VRC will make a Pico version, but for OpenXR support they need Unity 2020.
They are preparing for that (Unity upgrade), but I'd say... maybe next year?

[slow hearth]

maybe more

they have some

uh

big hurdles in the way of upgrading

namely all of the content not uploaded in the last year or so blowing up

so they gotta figure that out first lol

[rose minnow]

i dont support meta but i dont plan on blowing 1500 on a computer and VR just to avoid meta jfc

[slow hearth]

(new unity changes how shaders render, and old uploads do not have a fix that VRChat has implemented)

[bitter hare]

Yep, since they need shaders compiled for Single Pass Instanced.

[slow hearth]

(so they either figure out how to make that content not blow up, or they delete alllll that shit and face the mighty wrath of scorned weebs)

[bitter hare]

Have you checked out the 2018 VRChat hub?
It's still uploaded, but unlisted.

Shaders are screwed up.

[slow hearth]

lol havent

got a link?

[bitter hare]

https://vrchat.com/home/world/wrld_eb7a5096-9c93-41db-a9d7-7b349a5d4815

[slow hearth]

is the 2018 hub that old one where people straight up spawned in an open lobby?

[bitter hare]

There was no home back then, yeah. xD

[slow hearth]

yaaa

[rose minnow]

oh god

i remember that 😨

[slow hearth]

i played like an hour back then because

becausee

[rose minnow]

i was still on my shitty laptop 😭

[slow hearth]

do u kno de wae

[bitter hare]

[slow hearth]

i thought "wtf this shit is weird" and stopped playing till like

this year lol

[bitter hare]

hoh

[slow hearth]

tried it again and got a little hooked by making avatars i guess

[bitter hare]

https://tenor.com/view/awsome-amazed-wow-shocked-surprised-gif-13480340

[slow hearth]

no no, thats not a good thing

i became a vrchat player 😔

[green oriole]

Just throwing my agreement into the ring that adding a "Too Poor" rank would be a great idea. Creators should be able to create experimental avatars, but they shouldn't be allowed to be common. So the more annoying they are to show the better, could for example have a forced confirmation box when trying to show one (maybe even with a timer so you cannot quickly click through it).

A low hard limit on how many can be shown at once would also heavily dissuade casual usage of these avatars, while allowing their usage for low pop instances and for showing off cool things.

[slow hearth]

yup, demo pieces are fun and creativity shouldnt be limited

but very poor should be the exception, not the norm

[green oriole]

But before that the VRC team should make their own toggle system, if you can create "layers" of toggles then you could have the performance metrics based on the worst case scenario.

The layers would be something like:

Switch(Clothing toggle):
Case: These clothes
Case: Other clothes```
And because only one of these cases can be active the upload system could go through all permutations and set the performance rank on meshes and materials to the worst case one.

Avatars could possibly have multiple ranks with a system like this, but that would be far harder to program, so worst case seems better.

With a system like this, the introduction of a "Too Poor" rank wouldn't cause as much backlash.

[slow hearth]

i mean, toggles don't really change what's loaded in VRAM

unless i misunderstood how stuff works

[green oriole]

No, but a disabled mesh doesn't cause a draw call, or at least that is what I heard.

My understanding is that a hidden mesh barely has a cost, but there is probably something.

[slow hearth]

i suppose a disabled mesh is good

but i dont think quest can handle too many draw calls, in the worst case of everything enabled

or PC

since you fall pretty quick in rating with separate meshes

[green oriole]

So, this hypothetical system wouldn't change the VRAM metric, whenever that is added.
But would change how meshes, materials and polygon count is counted.

I don't care about toggles, but since one of the main issues with the performance ranking system is that it doesn't reflect toggles then people would have less to complain about.

[slow hearth]

true, people always bring it up

"but myyy toggless!"

i guess a revamp to the rating system is necessary before that kind of cap

[green oriole]

From the people that know optimization, at least a bit, it is the only complaint I can remember hearing.

[slow hearth]

honestly, at the bare minimum i'd want personal limits to individual metrics

like, let me auto hide avatars over X materials...

the very poor rating is way too broad

[green oriole]

Think that runs into the same issue as texture memory right now, the game only knows the perf rank before it fully loads it in.

[slow hearth]

i mean, it loads either way if i show very poor avatars

very poor is fine up to a point, i'd just like to personalize that cut off point

[green oriole]

Yeah, it would be good to be able to personalize.
Although, on the other hand too many people do not understand them.

[slow hearth]

and if i hide the whole tier then you end up not being able to see like 99% of people lol

[slow hearth]

should be fine just hide it under advanced settings

or leave it on an .ini file to be edited

like the old method to change picture resolution

[green oriole]

People are smart and dumb at the same time, they would still figure it out and share it to others.

[slow hearth]

if a reasonable limit gets popularized then even better 😄

community made "Too Poor" cutoff

haha

[green oriole]

I have a belief that with some things you need to force people and that people, as a group, do not often make good decisions.

[kind raft]

¥

[humble canyon]

yes which is why there's a hard cap on physics Bones on Quest

[slow hearth]

lol people got so worked up with the limit

but the beta was unlimited!

ya, they were testing the limits man 😆

[rose minnow]

the beta shouldnt be reflective of the final product 💀

[humble canyon]

and presumably some folks made stuff that hard crash the quest

[slow hearth]

oh for sure

[green oriole]

If only people understood that.

[rose minnow]

frl

[humble canyon]

that would require folks to understand what a beta actually is

[rose minnow]

true

[slow hearth]

its very performant but phys bones arent free, the quest is very CPU starved already

[humble canyon]

like vrchat mentioned adding physics bones pretty much put them at the limit of what they can safely do

[green oriole]

This recent beta 95% of the questions were about how to be in it, even though there were two channels telling you how.

I have no faith in that people understand what a beta is.

Even if VRC put it in huge letter that things in this beta will change

[slow hearth]

the average quest user does seem to be a little less uhh

informed

lol

[rose minnow]

i try 😭

[green oriole]

Goes back to the point that you couldn't have personalized performance settings because the people needing the the most wouldn't get them.

[rose minnow]

i jus wish there was a way to open the damn wheel menu (idk what its called i js know it’s a wheel)

anyway

[slow hearth]

its just what happens when the vast majority of a system's users are children

[rose minnow]

yea. there needs to be WAYYY better age control on vrchat

[green oriole]

Honestly wish there were less "button combinations", was a bit annoying how I accidentally jumped "randomly".

[slow hearth]

hold the B or Y button on the controller you want to open the expressions menu in

its the wheel menu

you can bind it to A/X or the joystick presses in the settings too

[rose minnow]

i mean in hand tracking lol

[slow hearth]

ah lol

you use the side wings

[rose minnow]

not for chat box tho ☹️

[slow hearth]

you perish

[rose minnow]

true

im learning asl so it’s helping ig

[slow hearth]

you could say

its forcing your hand

[rose minnow]

ok :)

[slow hearth]

ba dum tss

[rose minnow]

damn you ..

[sharp zinc]

I met a 5 year old on vrchat
is this illegal or am i just dreaming

its just terrible seeing children on vrc

like they can sometimes never shut up

[humble canyon]

minimum age to be on vrchat is 13

[rose minnow]

its not illegal it’s just against tos

[humble canyon]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Children's_Online_Privacy_Protection_Act

[rose minnow]

oh?

it’s not illegal for the kids to be ON the internet, just to have their data collected without parental consent.

[heady wing]

Pretty much

And that data includes stuff like screen names

So essentially it’s illegal for kids to be on 99% of the internet

[sharp zinc]

for the 3 people who have heard of the performance study im conducting for quest, its going to have to get delayed until im competent enough in blender python api scripting. Since I got to make a tool that can automatically generate essentially a dice with infinitely growing sides

that was to make sure all the faces are visible on the outside and unity will not potentially do some kind of weird optimization if it was just an array of faces barley not clipping each other

[sharp zinc]

it also need like 4 other features so yeah no geometry nodes cant do it for me lol

[split kettle]

Is there any way to use custom shaders when making quest compatible avatars? I use shaderforge for a lot of simple animated effects but they’re not supported when uploading.

I figured there was a way to simplify or convert shaders for use with Quest.

[slow hearth]

no

[split kettle]

Sounds good. Are there ways to utilize basic shaders that give interesting effects? I feel like I've seen some cool dynamic skins on quest but maybe I'm wrong.

[sharp zinc]

I mean u got matcaps ig

and you can do outlines on your avatar by creating inverted hulls with flipped normals and backface culling

so that you only see the 'outline' when its behind and not in front and over your model

[split kettle]

Ooh thats a neat trick

[sharp zinc]

its very popular and old

tactics used for old games sometimes are good for use on quest vrchat because quest is low performance too so

[split kettle]

Fair enough. If only custom shaders weren't so easily abused. I figure most basic ones would work fine on quest.

[humble canyon]

like Metal Mario in Mario 64 uses that trick

[torpid ruin]

PLEASE DO NOT DO THIS
you will double your polygons, What I would suggest is to do it manually, like adding a lower poly model for the outline, like what Hat in Time does

[torn ice]

when there is a blocked person in vrc it makes me laggy as hell

[oblique hinge]

Unless they have parental consent, or just not collect any data.

[heady wing]

Both of which are kinda impossible, especially the not collecting data stuff

[oblique hinge]

I disagree. Whats hard is to try and get a commercial benefit from it.

[heady wing]

You can’t collect anything under coppa
No user ids, no usernames, no emails, NOTHING
It’s impossible to make a functioning site that doesn’t collect data like that

I got the ftc’s faq up

[oblique hinge]

I'm more familiar with HIPAA than coppa, however, I would expect that there would still be some limitatons on what you can do with user id's, but the easiest implementation of this would be to allow kids to play without an account at all.

[heady wing]

And let them do what?

You’d need to moderate them

In vrchat’s case that essentially means they’re just invisible

[oblique hinge]

There would still be ways to do that, as long as you're not recording particular information about them, I expect. I'm not famliiar with COPPA, though.

Alternatively, you could have a vouching system, I dunno how the regulations are written up. But eg, a parent could theroetically pay for an account, and designate some of their kids.

[heady wing]

Coppa is incredibly strict

You can’t have anything remotely identifying

And I’m pretty sure the only workaround is to write a letter or email the company

[oblique hinge]

Just looked up the laws. It's... Remarkably limited.

[heady wing]

The only info I could find is an FAQ from the FTC with everything

[oblique hinge]

Just looked at the very second definition:

...
if it takes reasonable measures to delete all or virtually all personal information from a child's postings before they are made public and also to delete such information from its records

Yeah... That's not likely to happen, unless they clarify what "reasonable measures" actually mean.

Oh, and interesting: Loads and loads of catch-22 clauses.

This is a lawyer's document.

[heady wing]

I’m not looking through legal jargon

I’m just looking at the ftc’s faq site

And from what I can see the data you can legally collect includes the following:

[oblique hinge]

Actually it looks thereotically possible, but it's going to require a lot of work and investigation.

• And without having a commercial benefit, that's a tough sell.

[heady wing]

Coppa is essentially just “try your best to get no data at all, if someone lies so be it”

[oblique hinge]

There's a bit of nuance in the documetn I'm seeing.

[heady wing]

Okay yeah trying to deal with children is definitely not worth it

[oblique hinge]

Yeah, I'm thinking of "If I were VRChat, how would I do this?", and I'm thinking definitely not worht it indeed.

[heady wing]

“Civil penalties up to $46,517 per violation”
That’s up to but still HELL no

[oblique hinge]

As far as these things are concerned, that's tiny.

[heady wing]

That’s per person

[oblique hinge]

Still tiny.

[heady wing]

It adds up quickly

[oblique hinge]

There's other regulations that are millions of dollars per violation if I recall. Something european data collection thing.

[heady wing]

Ah

[oblique hinge]

And if you're dealing with medical stuff... Damn. 😄 That's big too.

[heady wing]

Ok so from what I can see in this non-legalese faq, you cannot collect, disclose, or use data from people under 13

[oblique hinge]

Unless you have parental consent, etc.

[heady wing]

Which is really difficult to give

[oblique hinge]

Yes, but not impossible.

[heady wing]

It’s impractical though

[oblique hinge]

For the current industry, yes.

[heady wing]

You’re not sending emails, let along letters, to every website you visit

[oblique hinge]

Those websites shouldn't be collecting information, though. (They are, but they shouldn't).

It's insane how much data is collected by the modern web.

[heady wing]

I know. It’s obscene.

Hm, we should probably move channels

[oblique hinge]

I think we've probably about finished up, anyway.

[heady wing]

Fair

[nimble lake]

I'm planning on getting an oculus quest 2 for Xmas, I have a pc,r5 3600 1600. I'm just wondering if I need any programmes on pc to optimise the experience or If I need any apps etc. Could anyone help?

[humble canyon]

what graphics card do you have

[slow hearth]

i'll guess a gtx1660

[slate comet]

Is anyone able to help with a crashing issue?

[sharp zinc]

The force quit to the Meta account?

[sharp zinc]

a

[weak quarry]

b

[sharp zinc]

c

[slow hearth]

d

[slate comet]

I fixed it, and previously made a meta account. And it still force quits for all quest users.

[sharp zinc]

Lol

i didn’t make a meta account

[sharp zinc]

It does it once in a while

[eternal junco]

I had the same issue. I'm still new to VRChat and wanted to try out one of those Sleeping Worlds. I couldn't stay asleep for 30 minutes before I'd be awoken by the Quest forcibly asking me to make a Meta Account.
If the solution is to make one, believe me I tried. But whenever i'd log into my Facebook, an error would show up and I would be asked to try again later.

[pale rover]

honestly i think client crashers was never the issue

it was just poor optimization

i mean most avatars you see are so

[inland nymph]

So I enabled quest beta to check a debug log in my world as some users have been reporting crashing. In 15 mins I got a 3MB log file filled with this multiple times per second: 2022.12.02 17:48:07 Exception - Object reference not set to an instance of an object.
at VRC.Networking.Pose.PoseRecorder.(hadtohidespamdscordbot) () [0x00000] in <00hadtohidespamdscordbot000>:0
at VRC.Networking.Pose.PoseAV2Update.LateUpdate () [0x00000] in <00hadtohidespamdscordbot000>:0 `

I noticed some players were using a dance animation constantly

not sure what it is tho

[limber bear]

you should've probably posted this in #open-beta-discussion then made an issue here https://feedback.vrchat.com/open-beta

but it's too late vrchat already rolled back quest

[astral kite]

It's been a while since I made a quest avatar, but I thought transparency wasn't supported on avatars full stop? Does the VRChat Mobile Particles Additive shader actually work? (would be silly if it was included and didn't work)

[slow hearth]

It wasnt

It doesn't

[astral kite]

Why is it included in the Avatars SDK then

And why is it letting me upload it

Man, that's pretty dumb lmao

[slow hearth]

It doesn't work, it'll just be opaque

Dont worry you didnt find a hole in the system

Its just a world shader that has been bundled accidentally with the avatar SDK

[astral kite]

Ah, okay.

[deft stratus]

After a solid 40 seconds I just crash out of nowhere

[sharp zinc]

same but when i join a public lobby i crash

[hot grove]

Really? I usually crash when I go through portals and after I’ve got through my 2nd or 3rd world through invites

[lean dock]

ive been having issues too, only in public worlds it seems like

[dawn wave]

When is this crashing bs gonna be solved is my question-

Even with max safety its just- blips out of existence

[tribal roost]

good question

from what I have been hearing, Meta basically messed up vrchat again so its hard to tell

[worn canyon]

I’m a new quest users and just thought it was me, how long has this been going on?

[green oriole]

Quest has always been unstable as far as I've heard.
The recent updates probably making it a bit more unstable at the moment.
Guessing that the VRC team probably has to fight with the Quest OS to keep it from "crashing" VRChat.

(while a crash can be caused by a non-recoverable error, it can also just be caused by a program taking too long to respond or doing something unexpected, I also think the OS might preemptively kill programs that have a chance of crashing the OS.)

It is hard to narrow down since it is directly affected by the world and specific avatars loaded in.
Could also just be crashers since popular world publics are a mess.
Or a recent Quest update that made the Quest unstable, since all Quest updates are a gamble in what feature is broken this time.

[worn canyon]

Thank you for replying to me

[low reef]

Would anyone be able to give me a personal/weblink tutorial on how to convert a PC avatar to Quest? Please ping me

[humble canyon]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8MkgXcidxg4

[low reef]

I tried that, it didn't work for me 😭

[humble canyon]

what didn't work about it?

[low reef]

The FBX was being all wonky and I have no experience with Blender 😭

[low reef]

Does anyone know how to use VRCQuestTools?

[humble canyon]

the instructions are on the GitHub but you would still need some blender cleanup

if the model wasn't designed for the Quest mind

https://github.com/kurotu/VRCQuestTools

[lean dock]

anyone still crashing out of nowhere?

[kindred loom]

Yeah

[humble canyon]

you have to use Unity to upload content for vrchat

[slow hearth]

Lmao

[humble canyon]

that's never going to happen

[hybrid patrol]

Is 10k polygons too much for my avatar I'm going to use on the quest

If not what's the max?

[green oriole]

Is no max, but your avatar won't be very poor if you are under 20k

Going off my memories I think being under 10k polygons is "good" ranking.

[hybrid patrol]

Alright thank you!

[low mortar]

Assuming everything else qualifies as well, being under 10k qualifies you for the "Good" ranking https://docs.vrchat.com/docs/avatar-performance-ranking-system#quest-limits

[humble canyon]

vrchat intentionally doesn't let you turn on all very poor avatars

none whatsoever

and like half of the fallback avatars you can't do anything about as that's PC only avatars

[low mortar]

On Quest, the most permissive setting you can be on is to see "Poor" avatars by default. For "Very Poor" you must enable the person's avatar manually, for each person.

[green oriole]

My guess is that it is because of the thin line VRC is on in regards to performance on Quest, I think the rule Meta officially has on their store is that no app may perform too badly, which I guess would be below 36fps.

[slow hearth]

it was a bug, never intended to be there

[waxen hornet]

Does anyone have the direct link where it tells you how many physbones and collisions a Quest avatar can have? I tried finding it but I can't locate the document specifying that information,.

[humble canyon]

https://docs.vrchat.com/docs/avatar-performance-ranking-system#quest-limits

[heady wing]

The limit is 72fps for an app on the official store (although with ASW (which vrc can’t support because reasons I don’t remember (probably Unity version)) you can half that)

[sharp hornet]

Is this the right place to ask questions about the VRchat controls?

[low mortar]

I'm not entirely sure where that question is best suited but #quest-general would be a better place than here.

[mortal sluice]

Hi! I would like to ask for help because before I didn't have an fps lock to 45 and now for some reason I have it..

SPECS:
1650GTX
QUEST 2 PC LINK

increasing the hertz on oculus pc app doesn't help.

[abstract mulch]

That’s weird bc the hertz would help it correct?

[low mortar]

Locked to 45 makes me think you have your framerate target set to 90, which your headset can't meet, and so it enables Asynchronous Space Warp which locks you to half the framerate (45).

[sharp zinc]

lets say my avatar is 12.11mb, how would i make it 10mb?

[weak moth]

You can try to crunch textures a tiny bit

[stuck ravine]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/918661418012790824/1057699915385540768/image.png this has me extremely hyped

i managed to get the entire VR mystery school on Quest at below 70 MB

and that includes light baking and everything 😄

[humble canyon]

cool

[wanton hearth]

fr this is bs

[summer sundial]

Can anyone help me on making this 1 avatar quest compatible its saying its .82 mb to big and im getting realkly annoyed with it rn cause there like nothing even on the avatar

[tribal roost]

how big are the textures? If they are 4k or higher then they are way too big. Textures for a quest avatar should be closer to a 1k texture, 2k at most

[sharp zinc]

It would be helpful to know how exactly you got the value .82mb

its more likely that you aren't checking all the files that would eventually make up the upload file/assetbundle

usually the VRChat SDK is right when it gives you an error that your model is over 10,00mb

[loud breach]

In the game, how can i turn off the suggestions That appears when you take a pen for example, and that the controller is displayed ingame.

[hollow cairn]

Does anyone know where I can get some help with optimizing some booth avatars for quest

[slow hearth]

hell

[hollow cairn]

thank god i dont have to go far

[sharp zinc]

honestly I don't know whether I could ask this in #shaders or #world-optimization but it retains to quest optimization so I guess I can ask here. Anyone know where I may get myself a lightweight cutout shader for quest worlds? I know there is the alpha blended material in vrchat mobile shaders but issue is it causes some weird issue where I can see objects through it that also have alpha blended for the mat.

and I know that cutout itself is a more expensive on mobile (so on quest aswell) but the issue is I tried stuff like standard lite and it has the black background which is expected but it makes the decor look very very ugly which I do not like

[tribal roost]

A slugcat in the wild!

[sharp zinc]

Would anyone make my pc avatar into quest version for me?

[sharp zinc]

hey, my avatar is .62 megabytes too big. what are the best methods to get the avatar size down to 10 megabytes?

[humble canyon]

crunch compressing your textures

[calm wind]

https://feedback.vrchat.com/quest-creators/p/increase-the-good-avatar-ranking-for-quest-by-5k-poly If anyone interested, tho I don't expect it to happen, I try my luck !

Legit always have trouble to go under 15k without lossing high amount of detail, i just can't reach 10k

no, 99% of the people won't do retopology

[slow hearth]

Then perish

[calm wind]

I don't care i will juste use a square with an humanoid armature if I really wanted

99% of the people¨

[acoustic merlin]

Is it me or does anyone have stuttering problem every minute

[sharp zinc]

Could anyone name me all the tips you can do to optimize a PC avatar for Quest platform?

[gusty flame]

decimate mesh, shrink textures, atlas textures, decrease physbones and physbone transforms, remove constraints...

[sharp zinc]

How do you shrink textures?

[gusty flame]

resize the images smaller

[sharp zinc]

I understand

I'm trying to see if I can optimize a Quest avatar that is 16 MB down to 10 MB or below for Quest platform

Removing unnecessary assets is a way, but I'm seeing if there are any better ways for that

[slow hearth]

Put them in a dryer

[sharp zinc]

Lol

[sullen trellis]

Same over here

[acoustic merlin]

It seems like some kind of memory leak

In some words

[kind arrow]

if its a vroid avatar you can turn the poly count down in vroid, otherwise, select all and merge vertices by distance in blender helps some

or try manually deleting vertexes like an insane person

[sharp zinc]

I wish it was a VRoid model, but no it isn't

[native geyser]

Okay, a question; I've read about Dynamic Occlusion for worlds. But whenever I mark objects as static, I'm told that a static batched object cannot have GPU instanced materials. Yet the VRC docs say to use instanced materials: am I doing something wrong?

[eternal onyx]

static batching and gpu instancing are two different things

[humble canyon]

basically it's a used one of the other kind of thing as static batching generates a new model that combines all all the nearby models that share the same material or as instancing is duplicating the same model over and over but only storing the model data once

[eternal onyx]

gpu instancing is great if you have a lot of copies of the same mesh with the same material... unity doesn't have to work very hard to draw them. static batching combines multiple objects with the same material together

yes what mister plush said

in most cases i would err on the side of using gpu instancing where possible, meaning lots of the same object with the same material repeated. this means disabling static batching on these objects

the only way you'll know for sure what's best for your specific scene is to use the profiler and watch your draw calls

[humble canyon]

so I guess it's more of a question of what kind of map are you making as far as if it's a place that would have lots of duplicates

[native geyser]

basically my spawn is outdoors in front of the door, but the world proper is the barn interior (it's basically a club world)

[sharp zinc]

Can talk about worlds optimization here: #world-optimization

[covert aurora]

anyone got any quest eyebrows i can use for this model

[brazen tundra]

it happens in every world for me

[half sluice]

Ive been seeing some quest avatars with a working flashlight to it? I was wondering how that worked...

[gusty flame]

Spawn a particle 🙂

[fallen basin]

Hello i want to know if this possible to make something similar to the cutout for quest cause i use an old vroid avatar ive made but i cant use poiyomi or anything for quest

[slim bison]

You can just manually grab the parts of the textures you'd want cut out and put them directly on the texture you I'd usually be overlaying. So like, grab the texture of your eyebrows and put that on the face texture

[chrome turtle]

Hi! Does anyone know which avatar rating is blocked by default on the Quest version? (I'm 90% sure it was poor and below in the past, but I wonder if that changed)

I've always pushed my Quest avatars to be at Medium rating, but I really want to use the particle system to add sparkles to my avatar. It looks great on the PC version, but I'm not sure if it is worth the Poor rating on the Quest version

oop sorry, I could've spent 5 minutes googling instead. Thank you!

[wary surge]

How can you consolidate multiple textures and materials into 1 material with 1 texture to optimize for Quest? There's an avatar base i'm trying to use but the SDK is yelling at me because it uses 4 materials with 4 textures for the main body, eyes, and feather sets 1 and 2. It's a PC Avatar but I want to use it for Quest. I already figured out how to change the textures over to Quest-friendly ones.

Also even when I try to reduce the materials to 1 in the menu on the Body it still says there's 4 material slots, so how do you fet rid of the slots?

[forest heath]

This isnt necessarily just quest optimization, but i notice it more with quest, so occasionally ive seen people get screen tearing while in vrchat or on games like overwatch, but when fixing it on desktop, it worked although the same options arent available for vr, i was wondering if it would ever be possible to get a Vsync for vrchat for those suffering from screen tearing?

[humble canyon]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73REcZVWMhA

[humble canyon]

if you have separate meshes that would count as separate material slots even if they do share the same material

[wary surge]

Thank you!

[humble canyon]

glad to be of help and if you're wondering why it's separate materials slots because they're separate skinned mesh renderers so it needs a draw call for each of them

and something helpful about the texture baking method compared to the cat Atlas tool method is you can maximize your texture space so you don't have wasted space

like the texture Atlas method can only rearrange the textures that are already there so if you have like unused space in the textures it's going to keep all that unused space

[waxen hornet]

Hey all, I'm trying to make my avatar Quest compatible. However, I originally had 2 materials as Matcap Lit. My file was still too big, so I swapped them to toon lit. But now my upload size is bigger???

It went from 13.21 MB to 13.62 MB, which makes no sense.

Also, yes, I've crunched all my textures, texture atlased the materials I could, only have physbones for the butt, chest, ears, tail, and part of the hair, have no animations aside from toggling off and on meshes, and I've decimated what I could.

[green oriole]

If you weren't using a matcap with it then it wouldn't be smaller at least.

[green oriole]

Sounds like it is time to reduce texture size then.

[waxen hornet]

That's why I'm confused, and I've already reduced texture sizes to 32 x 32 for most of them

[green oriole]

Or remove blendshapes

[waxen hornet]

Also crunched them, and set quality to low

So, I'm not sure why the file size became bigger rather than smaller.

[green oriole]

The worldtoolkit package also works on avatars and can tell you what is taking up space.

(can be installed with VCC)

[waxen hornet]

Ooh thank you, I didn't realize that was a thing. 🙂

[hasty minnow]

My avatar is too big for vrchat 13.8mb how do i shrink this down without goin back to blender

[humble canyon]

have you crunch compressed any of your textures

[hasty minnow]

no?

[slow hearth]

... then do it

[hasty minnow]

if i am questioning what that is maybe dont just say do it...

maybe explain a lil?

and not i video my parents are asleep

[humble canyon]

the texture settings have a crunch compression check box

[hasty minnow]

i found it

thank you

[hasty minnow]

BRO 0.79mb LEFT

what do i get rid of?

and how do i set as humanois rig

[humble canyon]

do you have any unnecessary blendshapes

[humble canyon]

https://youtu.be/rRAnDMUbWt8?t=80

[hasty minnow]

i got the size right but i just need to know how to get to the thing to change from generic to humanoid

[humble canyon]

i link to a video that shows you how

https://docs.unity3d.com/Manual/ConfiguringtheAvatar.html

[hasty minnow]

i cant watch videosrn

what do i press

[humble canyon]

I linked you the text documentation I would just be regurgitating the info from it

[hasty minnow]

oh thank you

[hasty minnow]

you just said it was a vod

but thank you

[humble canyon]

I realized pretty quickly you'd probably also find text documentation helpful

[hasty minnow]

thank you i figured it out but how do i expand a rar file

[humble canyon]

7-Zip is a program that can extract RAR files

[hasty minnow]

i cant download any apps without permission is there any way i can doit without apps on a mac

[humble canyon]

nope you'll have to install something to open RAR files

[winged herald]

Does anyone know how to fix rampant crashing on the quest I’ve tried a lot of different things but if you have any ideas hit me up

[green oriole]

Showing less avatars and doing a factory reset are the only things I have heard working.

[sharp zinc]

also erase the guardian boundry settings regularly. unless it was changed in a recent update, it saves every one every made and constantly tries to find the right one. might be a milder option to factory reset, but I'm sure factory reset does other good things (and bad, like force you to update to latest version which probably have new bugs)

[coarse sandal]

Now there's an angle I hadn't even thought of, good tip if true.

[winged herald]

i have tried pretty much everything and it all equals to the same results so that sucks

[meager sorrel]

For the blender plugin Mat Combiner:
One of my images is showing up as 0x0 px to the program, turning it white when atlassed. Not sure how to fix. I have changed the image out, renamed it, packed/unpacked textures, not sure what to do

[meager sorrel]

Ok making a new material and putting the same img texture seemed to do the trick. Not sure the cause, tho

[humble canyon]

glad you were able to fix it

[meager sorrel]

Thank u. I almost rage quit when the UVs kept messing up but it was because the mesh had 2 UV Maps on it

[meager sorrel]

Ok, now I have a file size problem.
I will admit it is very poor, but I have uploaded avatars with higher poly without file size being an issue. Only 2 materials/meshes. One image file is 8k, but dropping it down to 1024, even 512, does nothing to reduce the size. Not sure what to do

[humble canyon]

https://github.com/oneVR/VRWorldToolkit this can tell you what's taking up file size

[meager sorrel]

Thank u!

[sleek jolt]

I don't know if I should ask for help here but I do pc vr and use toggle creator on unity and it works on pc but for some reason quest users see the toggles randomly turn off and on without me doing anything
Could vrcquest tools be interfering with it or am I doing something incorrectly

[waxen elk]

I'm trying to upload this avatar but it came out as 35.6mb so I started compression it but it didn't work so I looked at the sizes and I saw that the base mesh is 27.2 how do I lower that

[slow hearth]

holy shit, 27mb mesh

i- uhhhh, clean up some of the, likely hundreds, of unused blendshapes

[old pivot]

And decimate some high poly stuff if there is any

[next creek]

Quest worlds can use toon shaders yeah?

The poymi toon*

[humble canyon]

as long as the Shader doesn't use a grab passed the quest can render it whether or not it's going to perform good is a separate question

[cobalt lotus]

Like the noise when you mute and unmute it makes a sound if so that’s a bug I think

[proven abyss]

I keep crashing how do I fix it

[hybrid owl]

bro does anyone know the conversions for vroid texture converter

[undone plume]

the wut

wdym conversions

[forest barn]

Same here

[tawny shard]

I've been battling this for 6 hours now among other optimizations, can anyone tell me why this is happening, tried render queue, tried using Temporal's Players Only Shader with opacity at 0. I'm just really lost as to why this is happening here specifically because I've used the default mirror for quest before and it did no such thing!

I should mention that the cutoutmirror works fine, just not the normal mirror.

[fleet veldt]

Anyone else knows why i crash on the
startup of vrchat (quest) ?

[shut cedar]

Have you checked ur internet?

Sometimes shutting down the quest helps me

[fleet veldt]

My internet is fine

[wide pulsar]

anyone know how to increase prefromance on quest

[humble canyon]

basically just don't show very poor avatars is the most you can do

[sturdy ingot]

I have no idea its been happening to me too.

[undone nacelle]

Anyone know the best settings to reduce the most amount of size from a world 😅 I got a huge map in progress and I’m currently stuck at 100.22mb’s which is a shame as I need to get occlusion culling and all that baked.

[undone plume]

U can turn on crunch compression on stuff where u can’t tell it’s doing anything

[undone nacelle]

I’ve done that already. I’ve got 512px and Normal crunch compressing on 50%

[undone plume]

Ah

Is the map big or something

[undone nacelle]

Yea quite massive

Let me quickly send a ss.

[undone plume]

Ah

u could probably mess with the texl size

on the things

[undone nacelle]

Where do I find that?

[undone plume]

on each static object there’s a, like texl size thing

In the inspected ussly next to a img of the map it’s writing to

well it’s called an atlas but eh

[undone nacelle]

Alright

Thanks I’ll try it out now

[undone plume]

yeah

[undone nacelle]

Still can’t find it, Am I looking in the wrong place?

[undone plume]

Are your object static

also it’s in the inspecter

[undone nacelle]

Yup

[undone plume]

Give screen shot of inspecter

so can figure out

[undone plume]

Oh

I think u will have todo a quick bake first to get it to show the settings

Oh wait

I think u have stuff turned off in the thing

[humble canyon]

https://github.com/oneVR/VRWorldToolkit this tool can tell you what's taking up file size

[undone nacelle]

Oh okay, Thank you

[undone nacelle]

I’ve turned off all real-time and baked lighting

[undone plume]

yeah if u wan to have baking lighting and to be able to control it u need one of those on

[humble canyon]

definitely would be handy to show a screenshot of the build report when you get that done

[undone plume]

Altho if it’s so big u should probably just use global realtime

[undone nacelle]

So I’ve used the package you told me to get and it could have been my shader choice, I’ve been using Legacy Diffuse as I’ve noticed more FPS is being given out than the standard

Now uploads right

[plucky pier]

I'm trying to create an fallback version of my model and was wondering if there is any tools for blender or unity that can atlas materials, the one that works with CATS seems to not function correctly.

[humble canyon]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73REcZVWMhA

[plucky pier]

Ah.. Are there no tools to do it that work anymore? I change my models often so having to atlas textures manually would take a lot of time.

[humble canyon]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2mS9WlQMpfI

cats also has a atlas functionality but it has a bad tendency to leave big gaps in the texture which negatively impacts performance rank now because vram is a stat

[plucky pier]

Yeah i have used that in the past but as i mentioned that does not work for me anymore, Might be because the blender version i use is too new.
I just need 4 materials to be put in 2x2 grid so i can easily adapt existing textures.

[clear nebula]

Idea that seems dumb when praised like this
From the sounds the 2x2 atlus is on quest, why don't you update the quest version say every major update (redraw or major colour change) that way it isn't as tense

No need for the quest version to be 100% up to date, I know I keep my quest versions on stable untill I got to the time of the month I put aside for quest dev

[plucky pier]

Because I can't draw textures myself + because that isn't worth the effort for just a fallback.

It's not a human avatar, So having the same texture including a lower resolution version of my patterns would be key to making it instantly recognisable.

[haughty fox]

Help please

[coarse galleon]

Reduce the texture size of your textures or compress them. Should lower it enough

[tall bluff]

If you're using PNG's, convert them to JPEGs

[humble canyon]

that is not going to actually help anything as Unity converts all of the textures into an internal format anyway and unity has its own compression mechanisms you can use

[vocal egret]

ASTC 12x12: allow me to introduce myself

[proud sleet]

Hi, I am a vrchat newbie, and I was watching a youtube video in which they recommended running the game on a pc and connecting it to my Quest2 via cable. Can someone please tell me why?
What's the best setup to use if one is just starting with vrchat?

[humble canyon]

Connecting it up to a PC would let you use the computers processing power to render the game letting you have a nice graphics than using the quest to do the rendering

[proud sleet]

What do I need to do to get it running on my computer?
Is it just a matter of plugging in the cable, and then log into vr chat?

Is there anything else necessary?

[humble canyon]

https://www.meta.com/help/quest/articles/headsets-and-accessories/oculus-link/connect-link-with-quest-2/

[narrow python]

Hey guys noob here with noob questions.

How many materials can you use in 1 quest avatar? I'm hoping to use 3 matcaplit same atlas, different matcaps (128x128)

[humble canyon]

https://docs.vrchat.com/docs/avatar-performance-ranking-system#quest-limits

using three different materials would put you at poor but not very poor

[narrow python]

Thanks for the link! I'm think my avatar could be like 2mb total in size, I hope that compensate a little.

Thanks tho

[nocturne relic]

I have optimized everything on the textures and fx/action controller but the download size is still 10.92 and it wont go any lower, any recommendations?

Like is there anything else i should look for in the avatar? it doesn’t even have any gameobjects on it

[nocturne relic]

If you want to do it wired, use oculus link, the cord costs a lot though. If you want to do it wirelessly, install virtual desktop on both pc and quest

[full horizon]

hello?

[gusty flame]

Blendshapes do take up space

[hasty minnow]

hi im trying to create a large forest word but trees are very laggy to my headset is there a way to unload them until you get closer to reduce lag?

this is a huge problem but once its done my first world should be done!!!

@humble canyon i want to thank you for helping me get started btw

your a real one

[humble canyon]

Glad to be of help

[humble canyon]

You can use the lod settings to set when to completely remove objects from rendering

And because we are on the quest optimization channel it would help your frame rate if your trees didn't use any transparency

[hasty minnow]

could you explain were thes settings are in unity

i get the transparency tho

[humble canyon]

And if you don't mind tweaking your map design if you put like your terrain or large rocks make it to where you're not having to render as much using occlusion calling

[hasty minnow]

so less trees more rocks

my goal is umbara if you know what im talking about

[humble canyon]

https://docs.unity3d.com/2019.4/Documentation/Manual/LevelOfDetail.html

Yeah basically the shorter the line of sight you can make it the better for frame rate

[hasty minnow]

so this doesnt have many rocks tho?

Could i add a fog effect?

[humble canyon]

Yeah that could be helpful

[hasty minnow]

and then unload everything outside the fog

how would i do that?

[humble canyon]

I am on my mobile phone at the moment so a little bit tricky to do research

I suppose you can search in the discord for fog and see if there's any folks asking similar questions and getting answers

[hasty minnow]

Oh i havent showed you the world yet

[humble canyon]

Yeah I have not seen it

[hasty minnow]

i created a mini game which got alot of the trees gone

but those red and white things called venators are like a mile longs

[humble canyon]

Basically make the background area less flat so that you're not having to render as far away

[hasty minnow]

i couldnt justs bumb the render distance down like minecraft?

[humble canyon]

Yes but it's less noticeable if you have terrain naturally blocking the line of sight

[hasty minnow]

and combined with fog it woild look sick

[humble canyon]

Like basically put the playable area at the bottom of a valley

[hasty minnow]

and 2 last questions

so i use jet dogs prefab

and i tryed to make a plane right

[humble canyon]

That one I don't have much knowledge of

[hasty minnow]

Do you know how to use the flight stick?

[humble canyon]

I might suggest not putting a flying prefab in the world that would make your background scenery trickery a lot more noticeable

You already have your car driving to have an activity

[hasty minnow]

Well its for a server and i need pilots for airborne troopers

the pilot stuff is very important

[humble canyon]

That's going to be tricky getting the flying stuff to render at a decent frame rate on quest

[hasty minnow]

could i get rid of trees and stuff at random

like get rid of 50% like thanos

[humble canyon]

Basically the problem would be flying is you all the tricks as far as blocking line of sight go away

And question what's the triangle count on your trees

[hasty minnow]

no clue im on my phone

[humble canyon]

And I'm wondering if you could replace the trees that are particularly far away with cardboard cutouts

[hasty minnow]

If you look closley i put a ring around so it looks longer than it is

[humble canyon]

And I would suggest using unity terrain as it has features where terrain that's farther away uses simpler geometry

And also makes it easier to change the shape of stuff as you figure out the layout

[hasty minnow]

unity terrain?

like auto generated terrain?

[humble canyon]

Technically it's not auto-generated as you would design the shape of the terrain

[hasty minnow]

ok

and if i include fog

coukd i exclude the fog effects for some?

[night geyser]

so i uploaded my skin to VrChat and i can't use it, when i select it it just shows a yellow robot, just to confirm does that mean the skin is not usable?

[humble canyon]

https://docs.unity3d.com/2019.4/Documentation/Manual/script-Terrain.html

[hasty minnow]

lemmie explaina bit but pilots need to be able to see and fog may hinder that so can it exclude someone if in a seat or smth

[humble canyon]

I don't know if the fog can be modified in that way

But honestly first thing would be figuring out how to remove objects based off of distance using the LOD settings

So it's not trying to render small stuff on the ground when you're all the way in an airplane

And also the trees

[hasty minnow]

yea

wjeres the lod settings at again?

[humble canyon]

https://docs.unity3d.com/2019.4/Documentation/Manual/LevelOfDetail.html

I literally cannot look at unity at the moment so the unity documentation is the best I can give you

[hasty minnow]

alr

thanks so much

[humble canyon]

Glad to be of help

[hasty minnow]

and for a pilot thing i use a stick that legit just pushed a model

the jetsogs one but when i add a seat it spins like a bee on crack

[humble canyon]

Never have used that prefab before so can't provide help

[hasty minnow]

Mmm

[humble canyon]

And honestly you probably want to fix your on the ground frame rate before worrying about flying

[hasty minnow]

thats what im thinking

[narrow python]

Another noob question. If I have 2 meshes and 2 materials, do they count as material slots? Or if mesh1 uses 2 materials (1 and 2) and mesh2 uses only 1 material (material1), does that count as 3 material slots even tho is only 2 materials?

[humble canyon]

That would be 3 material slots as you cannot batch together skinned mash renderers so material 1 will need to be two separate draw calls

[narrow python]

Oh yeah, that totally makes sense. Thanks!

[sharp zinc]

I need help, everytime I tried to upload a quest avatar it says that the phys bone collision check count is 250 but the max is 64 how do I fix it?

[humble canyon]

Optimize your avatar more to use less physics bone collisions

[sharp zinc]

Where do I find that

[humble canyon]

Currently on my phone at the moment so can't really walk you through step by step

[narrow python]

I'm back, what is the difference between rigged meshes and basic meshes, and do they count towards one another? I read it in the quest limits you can have 1-2 rigged meshes and 1-2 meshes, and I'm looking at some of the readyplayerme avatars (excellent) and it says is only 1 mesh with 0 basic meshes. Thanks!

[green oriole]

Basic meshes can not deform with bone movement.
Skinned meshes do deform based on their weight painting .

Skinned meshes are much more expensive

Don't go over board with basic ones though as draw calls will bite you.

[narrow python]

Oh thanks! Can they be just parented to a bone instead? Can they have blendshapes?

[green oriole]

Basic meshes can be parented to one bone and will move with it in its entirety.
And no, basic meshes can not have blendshapes. The only deforming possible to do with basic is scaling, which is limiting.

[narrow python]

Alright that's awesome. Really thanks for the reply.

[timber basalt]

Ellos, can anyone here help me lower physbone collisions and transforms?

I have an avatar I recently bought off of gumroad, and it was set for quest, but the collisions and transforms on it are too high to upload

[lofty portal]

i am

[daring dragon]

Don’t forget that shape keys also count as mesh deformations

If a mesh deforms at all in a way that’s not just it’s transform component, it’s a skinned mesh

[storm light]

um my hand gestures stopped working and i tried to reopen vrc and reset my oculus but its still not working what do i do

nvm i figured it out i was looking in the wrong menu

[narrow python]

One more, can visemes work with 2 meshes? Like if the on/off beard is a different mesh, would it move with the mouth?

[narrow python]

Ok, I only know rigged and shape key deformations, what other types are there? I mean if I can't use shape keys on an basic/unrigged mesh, what else can deform it to be considered rigged? Scaling?

[woven briar]

anyone know a way to fix “The most recent avatar bulld was too large for VRChat to load on this platform.
Pease reduce the number or size of assete. The maximum size le 10.00 MB
Current size: 14.12 MB”

i feel like i have tried everything

and i just cant narrow it down

[whole parrot]

Hi. My sister is having extremely bad fps when using her quest. She has it connected to her PC and here are her specs:
GPU: 3050 RTX CPU: Intel Core i5-9400F Motherboard: MSI Z390-A PRO LGA1151 RAM: 16GB DDR4 Internet Speed: 1G Download Speed - 500 Upload
She has major spikes when joining words, and she does have her custom shield set to where most avatars are already blocked. She also has Airlink + Virtual Desktop to help with optimization. Do you guys recommend she overclocks her GPU? Any advice would be deeply appreciated!

[valid dagger]

could be your internet speeds im no expert but my rig was less powerful and my my internet is what kept it from tanking

1G is a not the ideal speed

[whole parrot]

I mean it's 1Gigabyte thats more than 900mb

[whole parrot]

she has this internet plan.

[valid dagger]

well again im no expert to me is sounds like a internet issue is all. And that's with comparing it to my less powerful rig with my 5G internet

[heady wing]

Internet speeds between the devices is what matters with airlink and virtual desktop, not between isp and router.
I would have her test the game without vr mode on her computer to see how it should be running. If it runs fine there, I advice she plugs her computer into Ethernet (if it isn’t already), and use the quest closer to the router. If this still doesn’t help she may have to do regular Link with a cable
If it doesn’t run well flat-screen then you’ll have to ask someone else.

[whole parrot]

When shes on her PC, she runs at 70-90FPS. She does use ethernet and the router is maybe 6 feet away. Can you explain what you mean by regular link with a cable?

[heady wing]

AirLink is generally unstable, especially if your router isn’t WiFi 6e.

Before AirLink released, there was (and still is) Oculus Link, which is essentially just plugging your quest into a pc with a usb-c cable to use it exactly as a pc headset

If you do go this route, make sure you are using a USB 3 cable at the very least

[whole parrot]

Would you recommend her plugging her quest into her PC with a cable then and not use airlink in general? Also thank you so much for your time

Also should I bother overclocking her gpu and perform a stress test?

[heady wing]

I would definitely try it if airlink is being unstable. I would probably also check what speeds the router supports.

However, something to note is that, if on flat screen she’s getting 70fps at times, that means it would be 35fps in VR

[low mortar]

The most likely factors limiting FPS are:

• CPU saturated
• GPU saturated
• wireless bandwidth saturated

to diagnose you'll want to see a performance readout while she is using VR, and see which is being fully utilized
I use a SteamVR plugin called fpsVR to give me a CPU/GPU usage readout directly in VR, very handy for seeing what is struggling https://store.steampowered.com/app/908520/fpsVR/
for testing the bandwidth the best way is to reduce the bitrate in AirLink/VirtualDesktop and leave everything else the same, and see if that improves the framerate

[whole parrot]

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08FJHMTZJ/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
This is the monitor she has. Do you still recommend I overclock her GPU?

[whole parrot]

She has SteamVR as well! What do you recommend I do when I use the app? Check out the saturations of her gpu &cpu?

[low mortar]

Yes. Check the Task Manager's Performance tab or some third party software to see if the CPU or GPU is at 100% utilization. That would mean it is doing the most that it can, and that the most it can isn't enough as your sister was having framerate issues.

[whole parrot]

So if worst comes to worst and it's using 100% of everything, do you recommend I overclock her GPU or would she need to upgrade her parts? I listed her specifications a few messages above.

[low mortar]

Overclocking will get you a little bit more performance but it won't solve "extremely bad fps", at most it will bump it to "pretty bad fps". Could look at reducing the headset framerate or resolution in the Oculus settings, reducing VRChat graphical settings.

[heady wing]

It’s most likely going to be cpu-bound, however

VRChat is really CPU heavy, and the 3050 is a good GPU

[whole parrot]

Do you recommend she upgrades her CPU? Cause I was thinking that this product might help.
https://www.amazon.com/AMD-Ryzen-5600X-12-Thread-Processor/dp/B08166SLDF/ref=sr_1_2?crid=SXNJS9I1T0YH&keywords=amd%2Bryzen%2B5&qid=1681117809&s=electronics&sprefix=amd%2Bryzen%2B5%2Celectronics%2C116&sr=1-2&ufe=app_do%3Aamzn1.fos.f5122f16-c3e8-4386-bf32-63e904010ad0&th=1

[heady wing]

She should first do benchmarking to see what’s causing the issue.

If CPU utilisation is at 50% when vrchat’s at its worst, upgrading won’t do anything

[low mortar]

I can confirm that is a good processor, HOWEVER note that using that processor will also require a new motherboard, AND we're still not sure what is the bottleneck for FPS. Finding that out first is important. There's no guarantee a new processor will improve anything.

[whole parrot]

Okay. When she loads VRC on her quest, I'll try the cable instead of airlink. I'll open up task manager to see how much of her cpu is being used, and if its using more than 80% I should upgrade probably.

I'll also try the overclock stress test to see if it'll get better, but it might not be worth it cause the issue may persist. Thank you guys for your help

[daring dragon]

So... close...

[gusty flame]

Mine is fine on 300Mbps, so I disagree with this.

[languid gust]

The funny thing is that your download speed doesn't matter. It's your router's throughput that matter.

[vivid forum]

Bruh this whole game needs to be optimized on pc and quest

[humble canyon]

user-generated content on vrchat so there's not much vrchat can do about people's terrible avatars

[analog kernel]

avatar performance ranks exist for a reason. since the content is user-generated you're gonna have to decide for yourself what level of optimization you want, but that will reduce the content you can see. It's a trade off you have to figure out how you want personally balanced

[tawny tangle]

Hey my quest keeps crashing

[summer marten]

welcome to the club its the ui thats doing it also player loading. me and a few friends found out pulling out your menu almost destroys you and its not just on quest its also pc problem. its been this way for a while it just finally caught up with the updates. it also seems to happen when you reach a number limit in worlds and its not even when your at max world level.

[tawny tangle]

Thats annoying

[summer marten]

It is but the longer your on vrc the more you get use to it. I remember in 2018 i think it was 5 or 7 updates that had to do to fix an update they dropped that were several small updates it was difficult back then

[tawny tangle]

Man i hate it

[summer marten]

Dont blame you just half to wait for next update is all until its fixed.

[tawny tangle]

the other problem I also have Is the kids issue

There are too many of them

[vivid forum]

Im bot talking about avatars or worlds, im talking about the game in general

🐟

[vivid forum]

I cant even be competitive in dogfighting its so shit

[wheat viper]

Its probably fine.... right?

[heady wing]

https://tenor.com/view/daladada-cat-crying-cry-scream-gif-24748831

It’s not the worst tbh

[wheat viper]

lol thanks... i guess 😄

[warm void]

Everytime I use polytool, it makes my avatar invisible in VRC. What did I do wrong-?

[umbral ruin]

What is the best way to compress clothing for quest so I can put clothing on my avatar on the quest side

[ruby marsh]

what do you mean by compressing clothing specifically? compressing the mesh? textures?

[fiery pivot]

Is there any way to salvage this and make it quest-compatible or am I stuck with it being pc-only?

[gentle kindle]

As I can see you will need to change the texture to vrchat/mobile/standard lite and you will need to remove the lights and the camera. The rest you can left as it is but it won't be classified as excellent ranking

[fiery pivot]

How would I go about changing that texture? Sorry, it's my first time messing with this

[gentle kindle]

No problem. Just select the material of your avatar and on the right top in inspector you will see the type of the texture you are using and it will be "standard" then you click on that name and it will show a list of other types of textures and you will click the "vrchat" one and then "mobile" and then "standard lite"

[fiery pivot]

Alright, next question, I did that but some of the model's children won't let me adjust the shader, is there some way to fix that?

[gentle kindle]

Maybe those model children doesn't have material setted. You can create a material for them just by copying the other material you changed to standard lite(selecting the material and pressing ctrl+d) then just drag and drop the material on the models that need the material

[fiery pivot]

you've been a great help, thank you.

[gentle kindle]

You're welcome!

[fiery pivot]

Slight issue that's kind of but not related to optimization, but you seem to know your stuff, how do I fix this message coming up for almost every bone configuration?

[gentle kindle]

Check if the chest bone is chosen right

[dusty turret]

Theres like no way ur getting that 75k polygon 800 bones avatar onto quest without remaking it

[humble canyon]

you're going to have to optimize the avatar

[jovial jacinth]

anyone good with the CATs optimizer and atlas generator

im at my wits end with trying to collace these textures. I'm 100% willing to sit in a call share my screen if someone is able to help me

[pearl bough]

What?
The whole game itself is unoptimized not just what people make smh

[wild moth]

Yah you can end up crashing sitting alone in a fall back in vrchat home at this point

[pearl bough]

Memory moment xd

[near iron]

how come when I try to run airlink it runs like crap but wired is fine? how to fix ?😭

[ruby marsh]

bad connection over wifi perhaps

[low mortar]

For best AirLink, you want:

• WIRED connection from host computer to wireless router
• a fast enough router
• an unsaturated connection
• a powerful enough signal

[kind trail]

would making a water shader transparent affect performance on quest?

it's a dynamic water shader like the one in the zelda wind waker game, it doesnt really use normals or anything

[ruby marsh]

yes

transparent = overdraw

quest sucks with transparency

i mean it can do it

but it will tank your performance quite a bit

[trim tide]

I am trying to create a 2D .PNG fallback and it fits under the 'excellent' performance category. the 'the set as fallback' box is refusing to unlock. I am really frustrated as I should be meeting all requirements.

[vocal egret]

fallbacks afaik have to be humanoid
solution: just parent the plane to a ybot, remove the mesh renderer components on the ybot, problem solved.

[trim tide]

Thanks

[gusty basin]

for some reason, my shader makes the whole avi black and i dont know what i could be doing wrong. im using the default vrc quest shader. putting the shaders to default shows the textures again

[green oriole]

Not played around much with matcap shaders, but you tried putting in something into the matcap slot?

[gusty basin]

doesnt do anything. i have been swapping between the shaders and they all do the same thing

[green oriole]

All the mobile shaders?

[gusty basin]

mhm

[green oriole]

Oh, that is probably vertex colors then

[gusty basin]

whats that?

[green oriole]

You can paint the mesh itself.
The Quest shaders, for whatever reason, uses that painting.

Often removed in Blender, but tools like this can do it in Unity https://github.com/kurotu/VRCQuestTools#auto-remove-vertex-colors

Basically, with black vertex coloring, you get the normal color multiplied by black, which is black.

[gusty basin]

lets hope this works then

it worked

my boy has color again

[prime vale]

@primal oar

[ashen crest]

They could commission someone from the VRCTraders discord to do it

[glass estuary]

Idk if this question was asked before but does anyone know how to keep all avatars on for quest 2

[vocal egret]

if you're referring to showing very poor by default, it's not possible, not only that but the quest version already crashes enough without it, you do NOT want to be showing every avatar, hell even on PC I keep very poor hidden and when eboys bitch about me not seeing their avatar I just tell em to cope

[glass estuary]

Ok, so it’s rlly just something that I’m just gonna need to get used too

[vocal egret]

yeah, honestly considering most people can't even optimize for PC, think about how that applies to what has the processing power of a smartphone, honestly I'd just say try and deal with it until impostor system happens and it becomes more bearable, also realistically as of late you're probably gonna be running out of memory even if you don't show avatars so I guess also stick to smaller worlds until VRC un-breaks what they broke in 2023.2.1

[bronze bobcat]

Can someone make my a free avatar for my YouTube channel

[humble canyon]

nobody is going to make you an avatar for free

[pseudo quarry]

help

vrchat fix the game

[sharp zinc]

Yo does anyone know how to fix the Max Avatar Download Size on quest

[green oriole]

Never been broken, always been 10MB.

[sharp zinc]

mine was at 70MB i tryed doing somthing with it and it went down to 10MB there are quest avis that have higher then that and i would love to see them back if vrchat would fix that, that would be awesome

[humble canyon]

any Avatar is being above 10 MB on Quest is a bug so vrchat is not going to change that

[sharp zinc]

ahh i see okay

[humble canyon]

the most common source of quest crashing is running out of ram so allowing avatars above 10 MB would just make the the crashing happen more often

[pearl bough]

Either a bug or someone using a modded SDK

[sharp zinc]

That is correct they are

[heavy geode]

fuck that, if an avi is above 10mb with compressed textures n shit then thats just a bad godam avi

the limit for quest WORLDS used to be 50mb

just to put it in perspective

and im not even an optimihead

[lucid dock]

latest update screwed up vrc

[fallow portal]

no fr

hate this

[fallow portal]

not rlly

they could of at least made it 15

[humble canyon]

increasing the limit would make crashing happen more often because the most common source of quest crashing is running out of RAM

[heavy geode]

fixed it for me

u dont know “screwed up” till its unable to open for 2 weeks

that update was way worse

[fallow portal]

okay but the thing is changing the limit was OPTIONAL

its not like they forced anyone to up their mb

it should lowkey just be an optional thing

like it was before

[humble canyon]

vrchat has always hard-cap the quest avatars at 10 MB anyone uploading more than that was using a modded SDK

[humble canyon]

so it was never optional

[fallow portal]

it was optional wdym

[humble canyon]

that was them being lazy copy-pasting the PC UI onto the quest

vrchat SDK prevents you from uploading more than 10 MB for a quest Avatar

[fallow portal]

just saying they shouldve kept it

after all changing the mb was optional

so if a player wanted to keep crashing

thats on them

if they turned it up so high

but for those that dont

they can keep it at 10

[humble canyon]

the most common source of quest crashing is running out of ram so increasing the limit would literally make people crash more

[fallow portal]

i think ur misunderstanding me

im saying they shouldve kept it optional

[humble canyon]

and I'm saying the crashing is why they aren't allowing it to be optional

[fallow portal]

well its their fault if they crash

because they turned up their mb too high

just dont turn it up that high

[humble canyon]

not exactly the user's fault if more people join the instance so the number of 10 MB keeps increasing

[fallow portal]

thats when the shield level comes in 😱 can u believe that

[humble canyon]

and also what do you even need all those MB for if you're not uploading a very poor Avatar

[marsh glacier]

ive never seen a more ignorant argument

[fallow portal]

im saying 15 AT THE MINIMUM or MAXIMUM it doesnt need to be any higher than 15. MOST vrchat avatars are very poor (that are made by popular creators) or poor.

i work with avatars all day and MOST ones i upload, end up being over 10 mb for quest and then i cant upload them

and they are very poor

[humble canyon]

have you played with the crunch compression button

[fallow portal]

yes

i use it all the time

it does not always help

very poor avis usually have a lot of features,

[humble canyon]

okay then I'm probably not going to agree on Avatar strategies in the slightest

like even in general I find putting your entire wardrobe on a PC Avatar to be a bad idea

[fallow portal]

thats just your personal opinion, but like im saying most avis i work with are VERY POOR and i delete almost ALL of their features, compress textures, etc and they STILL end up being more than 10 mb

like avis being over 10 mb

is the most popular thing

[humble canyon]

question do you have a bajillion blendshapes on your avatar

[fallow portal]

like avatar creators like tefi, nikkie png, foob, etc all of their avis are very poor and will still be very poor for quest even after deleting as much as i can

[fallow portal]

and no, ive never worked with an avi that has too many blendshapes