open-beta-discussion

[near grove]

my quest is 1.3mb and my pc is about 15mb

I have toggles and the such

3 custom made costumes

[raw forge]

I gotta check my quest version

[near grove]

peak the assetbundle

[raw forge]

Wait are you talking about download size

[near grove]

Yeah

[raw forge]

Ohh I was talking about VRAM

My PC one is 3mb download

[near grove]

Oh nice

[muted brook]

last I checked my vram is around 100 mb

pretty sure my dl is around 20 ish

[raw forge]

Lower some textures

[muted brook]

then they look really bad

[raw forge]

How big are they now

[muted brook]

I got 1 8k atlas and one 2048p one

[raw forge]

8k is WAYYY to big

[muted brook]

looks a lot better than 4k does

[raw forge]

And kills everyone's vram

[muted brook]

only other option would be to have the clothing and body textures on separate textures

[raw forge]

Or just use 4k

[muted brook]

makes it look pretty pixelated

[raw forge]

Nobody looks that close to it

[muted brook]

i do

[raw forge]

This is why vrc has performance issues

[muted brook]

1 8k texture isnt that bad

better than those avis that have like 200 mats

[raw forge]

It's not something you need though

[stiff acorn]

Cries in 8192x4096 atlas.

[muted brook]

i mean nothing is stopping me from just decimating my avi to 5k polys and just setting everything to 1024p in the name of performance

[raw forge]

Which you should do

[muted brook]

im not looking to make an n64 avi

[raw forge]

N64 would be 200 polys

[muted brook]

its called hyperbole

[raw forge]

Ayy 4mb VRAM usage on quest

[stiff acorn]

Nothing I can do about it though, my avatar has bad UV's. I don't even have a Quest version of it though, and I don't use it in public, so I'm not too concerned about it. May need to look into finding a different base though...

[inner kayak]

go through the different texture formats, some still look good while low res which can lower size

[muted brook]

i use png. I doubt jpeg looks better

[raw forge]

You'd be suprised

[mortal plume]

either PNG or tga

[wraith island]

My vram is 70MB

[raw forge]

Not bad but can be improved

[wraith island]

I don't use anything above 2k

[raw forge]

Good practice

[raw forge]

Flexing here

[wheat fjord]

what tool is this?

[raw forge]

Thry's Avatar VRAM tool

[wheat fjord]

Is this for more easily compressing textures?

OMG please link

[raw forge]

It just displays your vram usage

[wraith island]

It's also meshes adding a decent amount of vram

In my case

[raw forge]

Delete unused blendshapes and decimate

[muted brook]

as long as you put some effort in. theres really no reason to get it as low as possible

its not like your performance will improve

[raw forge]

It is like it will

[bright jungle]

uh, yes there is a reason
optimization

[raw forge]

Every millisecond counts in VR

[small surge]

vram thing is handy to see wich one you didnt crunch , lower the upload size

[muted brook]

the people who affect your vram the most are the ones who havent even opened blender

[wraith island]

The thing that probably uses up most of my vram i can't edit. It's bound to a very complex animation file

[raw forge]

Which is?

[bright jungle]

not everyone has 24gb of VRAM to waste on janky unoptimized avatars lol

[wraith island]

Stargate spawn anim

[bright jungle]

heck, I'm on 3gb

[muted brook]

which is why i prefaced as some effort in

[raw forge]

But what is taking up the space on it

[bright jungle]

I very much appreciate people putting in effort to keep their avatar's perf/memory use as minimal as possible

[muted brook]

the people who put in 0 effort are the problem ones

[wraith island]

Meshes

[raw forge]

If you're only using the animation from it, you can safely delete the mesh from the file and the animation will still work

[raw forge]

Can all be deleted if you only use the anim

[wraith island]

cant be deleted as then there is nothing to be animated anymore

[raw forge]

The rig is seperate from the mesh. The rig is what controls the animation, not the mesh

The mesh can be deleted while the rig stays and is used to map the animation

[wraith island]

yes but then you dont see the thing that is being animated

no mesh = nothing to be visible

[raw forge]

I asked if you're only using it for the anim

As in, the animation file, not the meshes for it

[wraith island]

the animation controls the meshes

[raw forge]

Well you can still compress and decimate those meshes

[muted brook]

decimation destroys quads. do not do that

dissolve edge loops

[wraith island]

issue is that i never understood blender lol

[raw forge]

Good thing I rarely use quads

[wraith island]

i needed half an hour of someone showing me how to rotate a bone lol

[muted brook]

no idea why you would not use quads. they are so much easier to work with

[raw forge]

Because quads are not neccessary

[muted brook]

this may be a foreign concept. but you can have things that are not necessary lol

[bright jungle]

decimation destroys your topology and can easily look terrible, and often gives lower-poly models a bad reputation as a result

[raw forge]

Then you get issues with decimation

[bright jungle]

look into edge loop dissolving

[muted brook]

^

decimation destroys shape keys also

[raw forge]

BTW pro tip: you can convert tris to quads and vice versa at any time in Blender

[bright jungle]

blender's tri>quad tool kinda sucks, though

quads are a lot easier to work with

[raw forge]

Easier doesn't always mean better though

[wraith island]

help

[bright jungle]

except they are better

[raw forge]

I have no issues with tris

I do use quads though

I am just saying I have no issues with tris

[bright jungle]

evidently, that's your workflow lol
but working with quads allows much easier loop selection, extrusion/modification, etc

[wraith island]

me understanding nothing lmao

https://gfycat.com/JitteryElasticBullfrog

[bright jungle]

I'd vv much recommend edge loop dissolving over decimating though, it gives you a lot more control over the process, and doesn't destroy your topology

[raw forge]

For one, those meshes can be combined/reused

[raw forge]

I've done that before too

[bright jungle]

you might be surprised by how many polys you can shave off your model without changing how it looks

[wraith island]

i would need to commission someone for that

[raw forge]

I did it for my quest model

[naive dragon]

Could even not be a mesh

Shaders can do that

💀

Technically

[wraith island]

maybe ill look into commissioning someone for optimizing such a thing

[raw forge]

I can do optimization commissions

[wraith island]

yeah i probably cant do it this month this im pretty low on budget currently

though important would be to not break the animation

[bright jungle]

Sipp has a good tutorial on optimizing for Quest, which goes into edge loop dissolving a bit

I could also walk 'ya through edge loop dissolving a bit, if you want o:

it's fairly simple, just takes time

[wraith island]

i prefer to stay away from blender since everything i do without a ton of guidance is absolutely destructive

managed to break my avatar even for desktop mode recently

[muted brook]

thats how i learned blender lol. just tried something and if it broke restart until it eventually didnt

[wraith island]

doesnt help i dont even understand the interface

[stiff acorn]

Making frequent backups of your avatar helps with the learning process, so you can undo destructive changes easily.

[wraith island]

i prefer to just pay someone to do that work

will get the optimization done too and someone gets something from it to maybe pay his living better

[wraith island]

i do have backups from kinda everything anyways so thats not a worry

though i do need to get a external HDD still since i dont want to use cloud anymore

[wraith island]

probably but i doubt poiyomi can render meshes just like that. Would probably need a selfmade shader.

my public avatars are way less in vram size lol

wonder why given theyre pretty much the same as my private ones

just 62 MB

instead of 70

maybe the audiolink tablet

yeah the textures of it

@bright jungle floof you remember the last time you showed me blender right?

[bright jungle]

ye? o:

[wraith island]

floof

Well

My avatars are currently broken in live vrchat for fbt due to the unflipped hip bone for a while now xd

Do work fine on ik beta though

Tried to unflip it again but i broke everything lol

Well not long until it doesn't matters anymore

[bright jungle]

make sure you flipped it in edit mode, not pose mode? also, in what way did it break?

[wraith island]

In desktop mode hip went brrr

Like 180 degrees inverted

[bright jungle]

ah, the hip might've still been connected to the spine bone when it was flipped, maybe

would need to see a screenshot of the armature though

[wraith island]

Doesn't matter soon anymore anyways

Not gonna waste time fixing something when the automatic fix is right around the corner #open-beta-announcements

It was just broken since avatar dynamics released since that's where i uploaded the updates

At least for everyone not on ik beta or other methods people used

Since i don't have fbt myself it went under my radar for a long time

Can only act on stuff if it gets reported to me

[plucky owl]

are the beta SDKs compatible with Live atm

[bright jungle]

yes, as long as you don't use more than 128 parameter bits

[timber jewel]

if you do, all your parameters will be gone poof

[bright jungle]

gone, reduced to atoms

[muted bloom]

Official statement is that beta SDK's are not live compatible. If they work it's luck. If they don't, it's not a bug.

Back up your projects before using them, there's no guarantee to upgrade smoothly from beta to live

[wheat fjord]

how do I get this view with thry's vram tool

Anyone?

[raw forge]

Download it, install it, and it'll be in the Thry menu

[modest ivy]

oh and expand the texture menu at the bottom of window

[wheat fjord]

I cannot see the full window

It won't scroll

Help!

[modest ivy]

you gotta make the window bigger

[wheat fjord]

what do I expand

found it

omg

there's a texture on here that should not be here

No wonder its so big

It should have taken this out after switching to quest

idk how to remove it

[raw forge]

The simplest way is to just delete the file

[wheat fjord]

Weird its using stuff in the poi shader ver even thouhgh its toonlit

[raw forge]

Poi has some default values that it sets on a blank shader

[wheat fjord]

Its been removed. This tool is very useful.

Now its much much smaller

[molten cobalt]

awesome

[silver ledge]

apparently (and that was a discussion over at pois server), if you have textures referenced in the material which are not used by your options, they still will be included during compiling/uploading. So deleting unused textures is the easiest, or if you decide to not use an option/a texture in the material to set the slot back to "none"

[raw forge]

Yes even if you have the options disabled the shader still references them

[silver ledge]

so deleting the files is the easiest, otherwise you can look through the material in debug mode as it shows each referenced material in the different options. that debug one was a pretty ... not nice way to get rid of them, so i did a search&replace over the files of my materials to get rid of them

[raw forge]

Actually debug mode would have helped me out yesterday

I totally forgot about that

[silver ledge]

yeah, but you have to scroll through a lot of options there, as it pretty much covers every keyword the material ever used i think?

[raw forge]

Yeah but I find that easier than having to open and close every option

[silver ledge]

the one time i did that, that list was prettttty long xD

true true

[dapper scarab]

yes, especially in unity

[fallow rock]

Triangles are the easiest to render.

[dapper scarab]

Unity forcefully makes quads triangles, unless you specifically tell it to use quads which doubles material count

[fallow rock]

Wait what, really? Material count, why would it increase that?

[dapper scarab]

I have no idea why

[mortal plume]

that shouldn't happen. you should leave it as tris unless you have a specific reason to keep it as quads

like tessellation

[wraith island]

Have a look at this https://github.com/lukis101/VRCUnityStuffs/tree/master/Scripts/Editor#material-cleaner

Its a material cleaner

Deletes everything unused on mats

Might cause lag in editor though

But only while viewing the unused properties if there are many

This isn't just useful to clean up unused textures but also to clean up unused properties

I can say that my avatar once lost 5 MB in download size after doing that on every material

You can also multiselect materials and clean them up at once

[wraith island]

I actually should look at the meshes of my Stargate thing to see if they are using that. Every mesh has 2 materials on them and i can't get it lower by setting material slots to 1 instead of 2

I mean with that mat count in sdk stays the same

[next snow]

they should implement something like that in the actual game, most of the time when I have performance issues it's because I run out of memory instead of having a gpu/cpu bottleneck, which results in basically completely freezing from before I ran out a playable experience

it's kinda ridicules how a world with just around 30 people can crash a pc with 8 GB VRAM and 16 GB of normal ram lol

[loud fjord]

With our parameter memory being expanded we can use floats for osc paramaters more often, but the issue of the osc float update rate being small is still an issue, I know its been addressed on the osc github but it would be really cool to see the expanded bits and osc float updates at least at 60-90 per second come out on the same update, would basically perfect face tracking overnight

[turbid turret]

The issue comes about because Unity will split all the triangles into a different mesh from all the quads. If your entire mesh was quads it would be fine.

[molten cobalt]

a lot of people don't optimize their vram usage for their avatars in the slightest

[next snow]

yeah that's why I'd like to block those

the performance ranks do nothing with measuring vram usage

[molten cobalt]

not that it would catch all them but probably a good idea to put a download size cap on avatars

like at the very least it would catch all the folks with uncompressed 4K textures

[leaden cairn]

people already can put a download size restriction under the safety settings though, and while limiting download size would cut down on some of the unoptimized stuff, it also would take away from the avatars that really do need massive download sizes (think animation type avatars)

[timber jewel]

A higher update rate actually isn't needed that much, the thing that makes it look so choppy is, that there is currently no interpolation for them.

[mortal plume]

a higher update rate would be nice still

• interp

[muted brook]

sure ft isnt fully implemented yada yada. But you still need a higher sync rate for it to be responsive enough

[timber jewel]

Yeah it would, the only thing you really need it for is face tracking though, which is planned to be integrated in to the Avatar Descriptor by VRChat in the future without needing to use Parameters for it.

[muted brook]

main issue is that it isnt yet. and i doubt it will be for a long time

[molten cobalt]

yeah I suppose it would be handy if there was a dedicated vram stat

[naive dragon]

Wonder if Particle System Force Fields will ever be allowed on avatars

[sullen elk]

WHAT.

[loud fjord]

Also theres like 3 apis for face tracking currently and more on the way

[naive dragon]

What what

[bright jungle]

openxr make a face tracking standard pls

[naive dragon]

Probably won’t until Meta or Valve release a headset with built in face tracking

Eye tracking is a different story

How

Genuinely really want to know

DIY?

How much did it cost to do

Got a 3d printer so we good there

What parts did you have to buy

How could I do this

I must know

Sad

[timber jewel]

Does the new VPM work with the beta SDK?

[grim glacier]

vrc wtf does a nonce mean in this scenario

cus what i think it means does definitely not fit in this usecase

[bright jungle]

cryptographic nonce (number once), arbitrary number that can be used just once

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryptographic_nonce

[grim glacier]

my british brain can not get over this lmfao

[naive dragon]

It’s like a security key that breaks after you use it

I think

Right?

Right?

[bright jungle]

afaik, ye

[naive dragon]

Awesome

I think I’m smart

Maybe

[copper sentinel]

does that even work in game though? though invites could be shared and reused anyway

[rough glade]

If you have already installed the latest unity version and Unity Hub, the tool doesn't work, it will not detect them. I had to uninstall my Unity version.

[gritty salmon]

the nonce field stops you from guessing someone's private instance ID based on the instance owner's user ID, world ID, and instance number (which is small enough to just try them all)

fun fact though: the instance ID/instance number field doesn't have to be a number

[long sedge]

so- instead of a 6mb unitypackage file, you want me to install two more programs onto my computer just to avoid a tiny AND portable file?

vrchat.. why

[last viper]

creation companion isn't just that though

[long sedge]

i guess-

it just feels unnecessary for people that don't do a lot of fancy unity stuff

is it going to be required to use vrchat companion?

[inner kayak]

i don’t see why it would be

[last viper]

then just get the normal package, don't think they will remove that

[long sedge]

oh thank god

[dusk oak]

Auto updating dependencies (including the SDK), being able to download things from one, more official source, and creators don’t need to individually implement download checkers and more into their own assets

[long sedge]

thats fair

for those who need that- me? im a unity pleb lol

[dusk oak]

And it being forced would be ridiculous… (well I could see the VPM having a requirement down the line but that’s speculative)

[long sedge]

yeah that was my worry

long as its not a required thing- i feel better lol

[dusk oak]

I think most people will prefer using the VPM over dragging unity packages in as it continues on

[long sedge]

yeah i can see that

for someone that actively works in unity on really advanced stuff i totally get it

[hazy linden]

Creator companion will also probably be used to make unity upgrades easier in the future

[dapper scarab]

Eh, I haven’t had a chance to check it but if it doesn’t have an option to audit the contents of the package before actually importing that’s a big nope from me.

[mental marsh]

E

[dusk oak]

Not even, imagine being new and starting a brand new project. Instead of making a ton of google searches and stuff to get the sdk, shaders, etc, you can all get it from one place

[dapper scarab]

Especially when people like to package scripts (!) with their content which cause issues or straight up have malintention

Just my two cents

[dusk oak]

If it’s based off of UPM and unity’s package manager UI, i don’t see why they wouldn’t have the option

[long sedge]

yeah, that does sound nice. i honestly was just worried about it being a required thing. im one of those people that really doesnt like unnecessary programs on my computer 😓 thank you for explaining a bit more :)

[dusk oak]

I’ll take a look. In a second

[dapper scarab]

Like I said I haven’t had a chance to look, I’m at work as of speaking.

[dusk oak]

Looks like there will be 3 (4) different types of packages, Official, Curated, Community, and User packages, so for the first two "issue causing" and malicious packages probably won't be an issue there

[dapper scarab]

My main issue is for content being distributed outside that

I.e Gumroad purchased assets

[dusk oak]

I.E. the community section?

Oh, I see

[dapper scarab]

The amount of times I’ve purchased an asset and it includes the entire SDK is too many

[long sedge]

ugh god

i hate that crap

[dusk oak]

Oh wow, I've never seen that

[long sedge]

its awful

[dapper scarab]

It breaks so much shit

[long sedge]

sometimes they include dynamic bones in them even, a paid asset

[dapper scarab]

I’ve gotten to the point of auditing everything I import

[dusk oak]

I don't use gumroad, so I've never really knew it was like that on other platforms

[long sedge]

ive even seen some purchased avatars from gumroad and payhip have token loggers in them to ensure you've actually bought it, then log all your information using a discord bot

its honestly scary

[dapper scarab]

True, I won’t lie I’ve used pirated dynamicbones for a while but I bought for like $10 when it was on sale

[long sedge]

seeing how its so popularly distributed in gumroad packages, i dont blame you lol

oh my gosh, speaking of dyn bones- is it not the most satisfying thing to not have to import that into unity anymore??

[dapper scarab]

The better part is when they include Poiyomi and then Thry explodes

[long sedge]

PFFT

god poiyomi-

so many issues

'prefab error' makes my spine tingle

[dapper scarab]

ngl I’m a UTS fan but it’s so broken

[long sedge]

hahah

uts is nice

[dapper scarab]

The lighting is unique but I stand out far too much

[long sedge]

yeahh thats fair

im honestly upset with myself sometimes for becoming so used to poiyomi hahah

[dapper scarab]

Can we mention a common enemy

fur shaders

[long sedge]

DUUUDE

[dapper scarab]

hi my GPU would like you to not

[long sedge]

😂 😂

gosh ill buy an avatar using some kind of fur, and when i import it it looks SOOO NICE. but when i try to recreate it?? what??

[dapper scarab]

yeahhhh

Like some animations I’ve yoinked off Discord they look nowhere as nice from the preview video

[long sedge]

hahaha right

[copper sentinel]

Im glad they arent removing the old packages yet because the companion is no-op at launch

[wraith island]

yeah its currently more in a get it to test it out place

i hope no one will be stupid enough to overwrite without backup but well they got warned then

cause people most likely will run into issues that break their project

at least on worlds side

udonsharp update to 1.0 is huge and complicated

[ruby geyser]

Well, I do like the direction of VCC and VPM and all but from my limited testing I don't think I'll be using it seriously juuuust yet. I test-migrated a couple of my custom avatar projects and boy howdy the error list, whew...

Poiyomi definitely seems to give VCC trouble, lots of fallback shaders not being found from what I looked through. Not sure what else might have borked during migration, I haven't dug too deeply into the error logs.

I'll need to do a deep-dive into the migrated project copies to see what is and isn't working; will need to figure out the best way to provide actionable info for bugfixing and so on, though I imagine that'd be kinda tricky to do given just how many variables can vary from project to project.

Still, I am happy to hear about these new features for VCC and VPM and all, given how much avatar work I tend to need to do, things that help streamline the process are a BIG help!

[solemn nexus]

Yeah, seems migrating still needs work, but it is a pretty bloated project
I'll have to try it with a blank project tomorrow

[ruby geyser]

Well, when I looked into Unity in the project I'd migrated, it actually looks like a lot of the errors thrown were not terribly serious; I got rid of a couple of incompatible plugins and jiggered things around a bit, and it looks like things work okay

That being said, since this project is intended for sale/distribution (a from-scratch avatar base in this case), I am wondering how I would go about making a good exported project folks could use for importing into Unity

Or would it be better for me to go back to the original un-migrated copy and use the old non-VCC project methods?

[covert jetty]

i'm stuck on openining unity in the bg while migrating my pc avatar unity thingy

ok so i made a new project instead

why can't you add .unitypackage as a user package so you can easily add e.g. poiyomi shaders

[green igloo]

i just closed it and retryed it and seems that fixed it

[proven shell]

I will say reverting a project is actually pretty easy from trying to migrate, sadly it didn't work on my proj

[green igloo]

There a Quick fix to this used the dup option as to not lose the avatars in case something happened and glad i did as this happened. couldn't find the SDK3Aimportfix and broke last second

what weirder is it still let me in the new version and it show the converted SDK but the models materials and pic are all messed up

(pic of the normal profile to show what model material and pic looked like before)

[near grove]

Already! I just opened the thing and picked a template then this happens

[inner kayak]

[green igloo]

I found it and moved over there awhile ago lol sometimes your not looking for things

[limber quartz]

Incoming update 👀

[dapper scarab]

Hmmm what’s new in this OB push

[shrewd estuary]

fear

[bright pewter]

- Fixed: QM text was incorrectly set to bold
bruh, I liked it better in bold :(

[wind talon]

it broke out of bounds

[lyric ocean]

rip

[compact crane]

wait why did i get this on the newest beta

[gritty salmon]

There is no official API to determine if the current user is a VRC+ user. So... if some world is doing some terrible unsupported hacky method to detect that, it's not surprising that it might break.

[naive dragon]

Wait

That’s a thing?

Why

The creator of the world gains nothing from VRC+ users

Why restrict it

[sullen elk]

What world?

[naive dragon]

Idk just referring to this

[inner kayak]

WASD scrolling

[bright pewter]

Before any of this spreads, because God knows the VRChat community is impossibly good at spreading misinformation. No, that's not real. It's an obvious play on the "Activate Windows" watermark that people like to point out in screenshots from users with unactivated Windows.

[naive dragon]

I honestly would not be surprised if people were doing that

Sad really

[stiff acorn]

Crap-post culture man.

[naive dragon]

Indeed

The fact that I didn’t even consider it to be outside the scope of possibility in this community is more concerning

[muted bloom]

There is an API call to get that you're a VRC+ supporter, because it's tagged and you can fetch tags.

[gritty salmon]

oh? you can access regular player tags from Udon? I thought people were doing weird hacks with colliders

[fast siren]

There's a way to check via Web API but not ingame via Udon.

[muted bloom]

yeah, no Udon way, I misunderstood the statement

I'm also straining to figure out how a collider would even figure that out.

[fiery vine]

no syncing issues anymore with contact receivers, 0 delay thank youuuuu

[gritty salmon]

VRCat has a collider IIRC

or had, in some prior builds

[lyric ocean]

lol

[stone rapids]

What do you mean?

[fiery vine]

there was a syncing issue with contact receivers on the older sdk

if someone triggered your receiver it would be delayed for them

but that got fixed in todays beta sdk update!

which is super nice

[mental marsh]

E

[timber jewel]

Am I the only one who isn't able to do gestures with a controller?

[inner kayak]

since latest open beta patch?

i was able to first open beta version, haven’t tried latest

[timber jewel]

Nope, I wasn't able to do them in both

Or am I just to dumb to use them?

[timber jewel]

Is there any documentation on how to actually do Gestures with Controllers? Because from what I know is that I just press RB / R1 and then move the Thumbsticks, or is that wrong?

[timber jewel]

Uhm for some reason I can't press the Upload button etc with the current SDK from the creator comapnion

It just won't let me press any of the buttons in the game window

I only have that problem in my PC Avatar Project

I get these errors

[hollow belfry]

Why did you switch the input system

Oh wait nvm

I remember now they finally changed it

[timber jewel]

Yeah they changed it, but for some reason my SDK tries to use the old one

I also removed the SDK and added it back in, same problem

but only with my Main PC Avatar Project

ohhh ik why, it's because I used the Beta SDK and then switched to the stuff from the Creator Companion, which still uses the old method

Yup, after switching back to the old system it now works correctly. ^^

[near grove]

Where to report bugs?

Using newest SDK with 256 parameters option. if you upload your avatar with over old limit of 128 everything is broken. Menue does not allow any input for parameter changes

hours of work wasted xD. you better fix this

[hazy linden]

You can report bugs by making a post on the canny https://feedback.vrchat.com/open-beta

[timber jewel]

If you play on live, yeah it will break. Using more then 128 bits only works in open beta.

If you use an Avatar with the beta SDK in live with more then 128 Bits, all of them will be removed by the game.

[errant cypress]

The SDK with 256 parameters is for open beta, make sure you're also playing in open beta. Using more than 128 params with ik-beta or live will in most occasions break things

[near grove]

how can i play in open beta?

[errant cypress]

Right-click VRChat in Steam -> Properties -> Betas -> Open the dropdown and select Open Beta

The game will update, then you will be in open beta

Be advised; open beta is not network compatible, meaning you can't join others that are in non-beta or ik-beta, and they can't join you

[near grove]

thank you 🙂

you also have the problem that sometimes when you have animations (like audio files) triggered by contact recievers others dont hear them?

like 50% of the people do the others not

[errant cypress]

I haven't set up contact receivers so I wouldn't be able to tell you

[near grove]

even when they are friends and all is activ

[errant cypress]

maybe something to ask in #avatar-dynamics

[timber jewel]

Conacts don't really snyc with the paramters, the way they "sync" with other players is that, basically when someone idk touches your nose, it will also be touched on other people clients aka there basically sync just by the sender also moving in to the reciver on their client.

If you really need them to sync perfectly 100% of the time, you should set the Conact Reciver to isLocal and then use a synced Parameter for it.

[warm cedar]

Open beta still going good?

[timber jewel]

So far so good, haven't really seen any new issues coming up ^^

[warm cedar]

Great!

Sorry I'm not participating in this beta, Got bigger projects to deal with xD

[tight narwhal]

I'm so hyped for 256 bits lets goooo

[proud mesa]

not sure where to talk about the CreatorCompanion, but it fixed a project I've had that'd always import for ages before loading, what a fix

sped up loading the project by a lot

[bright jungle]

#creator-companion would be the channel c:

[proud mesa]

oh thanks, I figured since it's in "beta" it'd be in the beta sections 😂

[timber jewel]

Yeah maybe they should move it in to the beta section, since it is technically still in beta. I also had problems finding it at first.

[near grove]

@timber jewel do you have a example for a synced Paramete

the best way to do i mean

[timber jewel]

With a Synced Parameter, I just mean one that is also in your VRC Expression Parameters list.

[shrewd estuary]

synced parameters are for nerds

whens unsynced parameters

[hollow belfry]

I think that's already a thing

[wheat fjord]

I'll desync your parameters

[wraith island]

isLocal true

[modern flame]

You can't use a non synced param in an expression menu

If they added that functionality it'd be possible to optimize some avatars so much further since there's often a ton of stuff that is being embedded into a chain of values inside of an int or something for an extended state machine that wouldn't need to be synced if you could just send the value out st the end

[inner kayak]

lots of words

none of my locomotion settings need to sync, but i can’t save nor add to menu if it isn’t in my synced list

new bit limits help at least

[hollow belfry]

how would you optimize avatars with non synched params in an expression menu

[inner kayak]

less unneeded parameters sent over the network

[hollow belfry]

what kind of parameters would you want on the experssion menu but not on the network

[timber jewel]

buttons for OSC output for example

or buttons used for some animator stuff where in the end you use a parameter driver for the thing you actually want to sync

or a avatar password, where only the locked / unlocked bool is synced and not the numbers

[inner kayak]

none of my locomotion settings need to sync through the network

all my locomotion stuff is streamed over network ik anyways, so the logic and parameters dont need to

[wheat fjord]

What is sent over the network (in terms of avatars) besides parameters and IK? Is the FX layer and other layer's run on remote player's clients?
Is that local only?

[sullen elk]

Here's how I understand it.
You have a local Animator from every person's avatar in the room.
They send you locomotion and parameter data, your client calculates their specific local animator update based on what their locomotion data is.
Because transforms are culled, that's what can cause a lot of the desync (as well as locomotion data not being fully 1-1).

Which is why we sometimes need synced parameters for things that need to stay true even if they weren't "seen" happening.

[sharp grove]

Avatar password?

[wraith island]

Avatar passwords are useless. Don't even bother. People can bypass that so easily.

Since when you type in that password on your avatar it's being sent over network

[timber jewel]

Yeah ik, I just used it as an example where you have multiple buttons for something where only the end result needs to be sent over the network.

[iron isle]

Is there any chance I would use VRChat camera in non-VR mode?

[sullen elk]

Couldn't you easily not have that happen by having the password calculation check only happen locally and parameter drive a synced "Correct" to show avatar across network?
That way you're not sending any part of the password over network lol

[timber jewel]

That is what I meant with this @sullen elk

for that we would need local parameters though

[storm mica]

you can choose to have local only params

[timber jewel]

You can't use local only parameters for your expression menu.

You can only select parameters out of your VRC Expression Parameters in your Expression Menu. Those are always synced.

An relatively easy solution would be to add an extra check mark called Synced next to the Saved checkmark. You could uncheck it if you want a parameter to be local only.

And only the ones which have Synced checked will count for your Total Memory.

[sullen elk]

I see, I understand now, you guys meant menus.

Why not make a basic keypad using contacts? Since contacts can in fact be local self only.

[timber jewel]

I mean of course you could do that, but it would still be nice to have local only expression parameters

[sullen elk]

:NODDERS:

[timber jewel]

Also for OSC stuff

[lyric ocean]

not really even if you copy my parameters onto the reupload it wont work. and the point isent to be perfect you can still full rip my avatar the point is to stop the reuploaded idiots from being able to just click and have your avatar. the amount of effort needed to bypass the password is more than 99.9% of them are capable of.

[wheat fjord]

This is very true of all anti-copy methods. If these users were actually capable of bypassing all anti-rip/anti-copy methods, they wouldn't need to steal content, they would be able to create it themselves. They all seem very intent on convincing us they can. But why? Perhaps because they wish for us to stop using these methods? Nice try. Won't work. We'll never make a thief's job easier. Stop stealing. Learn to make your own content or just purchase it from the author.

It's really not hard to just pay the amount for the entire package.

If you can't afford it, perhaps you need to re-evaluate why. If it's that important, and you really can bypass these methods, why do you waste all this effort stealing, when you could use that skill to earn more money?

Many authors will give free unity packages on gumroad. There's a whole server that gives you links on servers that give join bonus so you can get content to work on.

Don't rip, don't steal. It's not neccessary.

How would you like it if someone did this to you? It's called empathy, use it.

[lyric ocean]

ya like i find the basic password system the nicest as it doesn't break my avatar for others when thay dont have my animations on and stuff like others do and the thing that would make my avatar a target are more animations and just it as a whole witch would require alot to reconstruct but not impossible. but if thay can reconstruckt it thay could just make it anyway

[inner kayak]

i realized i somehow have 500 screenshots in this open beta

all back to back like a video split into individual frames

there’s no way i purposefully took 500 screenshots

[timber jewel]

I also made a few when playing around with the controller, but definitely not 500 xD

[manic lotus]

Curious, when people can force clone a private avatar, can't the VRChat servers not replicate that avatar change to other clients effectively making it meaningless unless they went through the trouble of downloading it and uploading it themself?

[timber jewel]

You can't force clone a private avatar, that only works with a public avatar.

[manic lotus]

Ah, so you can't be in someone's private avatar, only download it? Thanks for the clarification

[inner kayak]

ohh i think there was a canny that was about holding the screenshot button taking multiple screenshots

[inner kayak]

is there a screenshot bind for the controller?

that’s probably what i did if so

[timber jewel]

I think so yeah

[inner kayak]

i was talking to sophia in black cat, and somehow had 40 screenshots of just us talking in the mirror within a 5-10 second window

so yeah it was probably when i was using quest controllers as emulated x360 gamepad

think it’s patched, can’t find the canny tho

https://feedback.vrchat.com/open-beta/p/1197-bug-holding-view-button-on-xbox-one-controller-lags-game-on-quest

wondering if that is screenshots?

[lyric ocean]

ya clients download your avatar then upload it again to there account.

[inner kayak]

so many ;-;

[timber jewel]

You could make a slideshow out of them xD

[lyric ocean]

no more need for obs just use rapid screen shot mode

[timber jewel]

exactly

[wheat fjord]

Yes people have found ways of downloading private avatars. It's not as easy for people to successfully upload and reverse engineer a private avatar when they rip it, but rippers will try to convince you it is as easy as ripping and uploading a public avatar, the fact is they're lying, mistaken or have been misinformed. They want you to beLIEve that they can steal anything they want from you and you shouldn't bother trying to make their job difficult. Do whatever you can to stop them.

Also, if you report and prove that someone has stolen an avatar you have created, they may get permanently banned from VRChat. VRChat can also IP ban as well. So they can't simply just make an account and come back on. If they use a VPN, VRChat CAN blacklist any VPN.

I know a few people who were permanently banned for stealing content.

[wheat fjord]

Could create a gif out of them?

Turn it into a tatoo or texture with flipbook and poi shaders

Remove environment with camera

Hmmm....

[timber jewel]

Don't

[silver ledge]

ip banning is less useful than you think, saying that since i come out of a country where providers give you a different IP out of a pool each time your internet connects.

[bright jungle]

IP bans are nigh useless, and VRChat doesn't do them

[silver ledge]

vpns are sadly banned though, i always cry when my provider f*** up the routing towards the vrchat servers and i end up with a connection speed of roughly 2kb/s and 95% retransmits

[bright jungle]

VPNs aren't banned, though some ASNs have been blocked, which some common VPN connection locations evidently fall under. Some will work, others won't, and vv common VPNs probably won't work at all
I'd recommend trying Cloudflare Warp though, doesn't seem to be affected by the ASN blocks o:

[silver ledge]

ah, last time i checked most of the nordvpn ones werent working and from what i read from others they had issues as well. might give it a shot next time it happens.

[timber jewel]

VRChat them self actually recommends to use WARP in those cases

[quartz swallow]

What is Ik2.0 or whatever its called?

[bright jungle]

An overhauled version of the game's Inverse Kinematics (IK) system, i.e how your avatar's body movement is interpolated from your headset/controllers/trackers, etc

[quartz swallow]

Ah i see, that’s great news!

[hollow belfry]

indeed

[limber quartz]

Keep in mind things have been updated and added since this blog post.
https://hello.vrchat.com/blog/vrchat-ik-2

[shrewd estuary]

smh the tracking gon be scuffed they arent in the arm

kung no!

[inner kayak]

[timber jewel]

[bright jungle]

oo

release candidate pog!

[timber jewel]

Release candidate :O

[open blade]

Release candidate 👀

Poggerinos

[raven laurel]

woah pretty good

[timber jewel]

Why is half of the changelog the same as the change log from last week?

[uneven jacinth]

I wonder what this means for the IK-2 beta that's network compatible?

[near grove]

Does that mean IK will be out of beta soon possibly??

[uneven jacinth]

if it'll continue being its own separate thing for a while or if that'll close, as well

[wooden mauve]

Fixes that been chosen to be release in main build?

[timber jewel]

IK Beta will probably come to a close I suppose

[uneven jacinth]

yeah, that's what I figured, too

[wind talon]

oh my mistake, fixing

[keen lantern]

I was getting deja vu lol

[wind talon]

it has been an absurdly busy like 3 weeks

so my brain's a puddle

[timber jewel]

No problem ^^

[wooden mauve]

There we go. Can’t wait for release!

[honest dirge]

happens to us all

[timber jewel]

[inner kayak]

just freeze it

go get some ice cream

[timber jewel]

Btw I think you also forgot the colouring Tupper 😅

(of the changelog)

[willow tartan]

any new on, if this is also in the current build of the beta aimed to go into live soon?

[uneven jacinth]

@wind talon will IK-2 also come to a close when the Open Beta gets merged into live?

[timber jewel]

They aim to publish it today if no new issues come up. ^^

[bright jungle]

that is part of this same beta, yes

[willow tartan]

since preperformance in after to phys update took a huge dive in 40+ people lobbies

[timber jewel]

Oh that has already been fixed ages ago.

[uneven jacinth]

same question could also be asked of @grim zealot

[willow tartan]

oh i hope it will improve the fps again in bigger lobbies to at least the level it was before the phys update

[timber jewel]

There was an issue where it would spam the log file with to many people in a lobby which caused performance issues.

[grim zealot]

If you mean the ik-2-beta channel. Probably. The next updates to IK2.0 will likely not be network compatible and come in the form of patches to live. I think after the beta is released #full-body-tracking can mostly encompass #ik-2's topic content

[uneven jacinth]

ok, thank you!

and thanks, again for all your wonderful and very hard work on this

it's been quite a great thing to witness along the way and you've done a great service to the community; you have my gratitude.

[bright jungle]

^ kung b cool

[grim zealot]

I should probably post in the other channel too but big thanks to all you beta testers!

[timber jewel]

What are the things you are planning to do after the live release?

[grim zealot]

Most everything in the past many weeks IK2.0 related has been directly based on beta feedback, so very big thanks everyone 🙏

[grim zealot]

There are some non-network-compatible changes I'd like to try for improving things. Mostly the lock-all spine behavior.

And I know that lock-all + chest tracking is very finicky in the current state. So that needs some more polish. But it will go to release at the moment as-is in the interest of not introducing big changes right before release

[thick dove]

Release candidate :o

[timber jewel]

Btw is there anything you can do / are planning to do about your elbows being weird when touching your own shoulders? That's basically the only complaint I got from friends trying out the new IK.

[shrewd estuary]

happy 1200

here's to at least 1200 more

i sure hope ui 2.0 is next.

[timber jewel]

Same, that is really needed

(I hate the current Main Menu)

[grim zealot]

Yeah, there's likely more that can be done there too. Though to do a fuller job of preventing odd poses would require the tradeoff of taking more direct control of hands when they get into non-anatomical positions, basically taking priority from hands and putting it into the elbow. It's something I'd like to improve further though

[shrewd estuary]

id prefer to have them release ui 2.0 before everything else so they have less pages (like the groups) to transfer over if they do groups before new menu

but at the same time why tf would they do groups before new menu

[timber jewel]

That's great to hear ^^

[bright jungle]

gonna quote this

[hollow belfry]

tomorrow "Groups released!"

[wraith island]

yay my avatars will not be broken in fbt anymore when this releases lmao

[timber jewel]

Yeah if they are doing groups or the creator economy before UI 2.0 I'm going to shoot my self.

[timber jewel]

yay? xD

[willow tartan]

hands having less priority means their position will slightly be altered compared to where the controller is in certain areas of the body?

[hollow belfry]

that sounds el terrible

[small sundial]

I’m mostly excited about the option to scale to height rather than scaling to wingspan.

[grim zealot]

If the hand would pull the elbow into a crazy position, then yeah that would require hands going off the controller to prevent. This would only be really near the shoulder though, where you usually can't see your own hands anyway

It would be a tradeoff though yeah

[hollow belfry]

terrible idea

[shrewd estuary]

read this as "im going to shit myself"

[zenith obsidian]

I didnt have a chance to test the latest update yet. But does it improve knee positioning too with knee trackers when having your feet close to your butt? The last time i tried sitting on my feet my knees where bending away despites having knee trackers

[willow tartan]

if it only has little effect on it, i wouldn't be that worse compared to your shoulders having a temper tantrum

[shrewd estuary]

yeah it improves knee tracking

at least it should

[zenith obsidian]

Hope so. Felt weird when it moved my knees away while having trackers that tell it where they really are xD

[mortal plume]

yea I noticed that yesterday

[timber jewel]

lmao

[mortal plume]

I was sitting with my legs up on my chair

and I noticed that my knees weren't tracking properly

[timber jewel]

They also do that when putting your hands up, I made a canny about that like a week ago.
https://feedback.vrchat.com/vrchat-ik-20/p/putting-your-arms-up-is-a-bit-weird

https://streamable.com/lcv5pj

[grim zealot]

Yeah, that's known and intended, to help with arm extension in that case

[timber jewel]

Ah okay, I didn't know that.

[grim zealot]

Sorry I didn't have time to reply to the canny. I also wanted to see what kind of comments would evolve if people viewed as a bug

It's intended behavior though

I'll switch over to #ik-2 actually because we're taking over open-beta with ik issues

[lyric ocean]

yay release candidate

[raw forge]

I can finally use my extra params

[crimson granite]

i havent seen what 2.0 menu looks like

or the design concepts for it

[muted bloom]

I don't think anyone has

[crimson granite]

o

i thought they published concepts with it

[muted bloom]

That was concepts for the new quickmenu, which is out now

[crimson granite]

oooh

[shrewd estuary]

those were old ones back in like 2019

which look absolutely nothing like the current "new ui" style

[crimson granite]

as long as scrolling through my offline friends doesnt nearly crash my game i'm good lol

[muted bloom]

Alot can change in 3 years

[shrewd estuary]

wym you dont want a free fake crash button

[crimson granite]

LOL

[timber jewel]

There hasn't been any new concepts shown for it, there are only really old ones.

[shrewd estuary]

🔥

[crimson granite]

oo

[shrewd estuary]

(thats the old concept from 2019)

[crimson granite]

that actually looks rlly nice lol

id be down for that

[timber jewel]

Yeah it doesn't really feel fitting with the new design

[shrewd estuary]

it gives me zenith vr vibes which is ironic because the new ui concept came out literally years before zenith

[shrewd estuary]

theming is literaly the same just with different general ui layout

ok maybe not the same but you see what im getting at

[timber jewel]

It would be inconsistent with everything they made after that. Colour, corner radius and in general the design of it does not fit with their current UI standards.

[crimson granite]

it just needs elements tweaked

[crimson granite]

very similarish

[shrewd estuary]

currently i imagine its looking like the new quick menu in theming but its got the same features as the main menu with extra stuff

[bright jungle]

introducing udon? :pog:

[shrewd estuary]

cant wait for avatars 3

[timber jewel]

That felt like you stabbed my UI / UX heart with a knife

[crimson granite]

💀

[shrewd estuary]

nice nameplates guys

[crimson granite]

LOL

bananas

[shrewd estuary]

ok but i actually like the bottom one there

[timber jewel]

That whole concept there has basically nothing in common design wise with the current QM design 😅

[shrewd estuary]

its at least got the wings

[bright jungle]

it has blue

[shrewd estuary]

new colors more like a blueish green

[timber jewel]

The current QM is not blue.

[bright jungle]

wait am i colorblind

[crimson granite]

chlorine green

[solemn nexus]

Oh wait, no wonder my avatar was getting desynced
I was using new SDK for live uploads, hahaha

[timber jewel]

Okay ture, I give it that. Even though I don't think wings are actually coming for the Main Menu.

[shrewd estuary]

yeah its def a blueish green

maybe a lighter tint than the one im comparing it with

[bright jungle]

it's blueish, hah

[shrewd estuary]

bluedeez

[timber jewel]

That's also not their current UI design, that was an older concept of the new QM.

[shrewd estuary]

oh cmon blackrat the current new quick menu is like 90% similar to this one

[timber jewel]

I have to say though that there are a few things I like better about that concept then what we currently have.

[shrewd estuary]

yeah like the explore button in the wings

[timber jewel]

No, not really xD

[shrewd estuary]

thats a THING????

[timber jewel]

Wait

[muted bloom]

Wait, WeeW never used the wings?

[timber jewel]

that is new

No, the worlds wing

[shrewd estuary]

i have used the wings i just swear on god ive never seen the worlds button there

[timber jewel]

That is in fact new

[wraith island]

World button? Is it in open beta only or live too?

[shrewd estuary]

im not schizo!!

[timber jewel]

Tupper, when did you guys added a Worlds Wing????

[crimson granite]

it makes testing avatars really easy

[timber jewel]

It's in the current open beta

[shrewd estuary]

so i was right when i said that was not a thing before

[crimson granite]

it was snuck in!

[wraith island]

I can finally stop using the big menu

[crimson granite]

okay but the colors are different tho

[shrewd estuary]

until ui 2.0

[crimson granite]

just noticed

[timber jewel]

Uhh so why isn't this in the change log?

[crimson granite]

left is greenish wing buttons is more blueish

angrii

[shrewd estuary]

nice color scheme guys

i can safely say though

[crimson granite]

pool water color scheme best

[shrewd estuary]

the icons are deadass just a cyan

[crimson granite]

my EYES

[shrewd estuary]

no more eyes for u

[timber jewel]

it looks nice though

[bright jungle]

weew, throwing a flashbang into open-beta-discussion:

[crimson granite]

me, crying from the bright light

[timber jewel]

That's all I can filter it by

Uhh it even shows you if you have friends in it

[crimson granite]

its literally the equivalent of turning on a wii at night on a crt

my eyes as soon as it hits the home menu

[worn saffron]

wow that's very useful

[bright jungle]

lmao

also ye, sneaky new worlds menu is pretty cool

[timber jewel]

It's cool, but I'm just really confused why it's there. None talked about it and it also wasn't in the change log

[shrewd estuary]

as if i dont do this enough already

[crimson granite]

it must be snuck in

be sneeky

[timber jewel]

not complaining though

xD

[crimson granite]

dont forget to turn your hazards on!

[muted bloom]

Very useful for when you need to turn left and right at the same time

[bright jungle]

splits car in half

[shrewd estuary]

carmt

[timber jewel]

Can anyone of the team comment on if this was intended to be added with this beta and was just forgotten to be listed in the Patch Notes?

[shrewd estuary]

if it wasnt intended then whyd it have an icon and everythin

[wraith island]

Yep, absolut no use for big worlds menu it seems

[muted bloom]

Accidental commit

[timber jewel]

Yup, it sadly just opens the Main Menu of the world you are clicking on :/

[bright jungle]

VRChat quick menu only speedrun

[timber jewel]

lmao

I don't really use the Main Menu anymore

unless i'm looking for a world

[sage heron]

Will this get fix any time soon i want it back
https://feedback.vrchat.com/bug-reports/p/1147-vrcat-it-will-not-talk-or-meow-anymore

[shrewd estuary]

[bright jungle]

meow noW

[timber jewel]

Hm, it's also not mentioned in here:
https://docs.vrchat.com/v2022.2.1/docs/latest-release

sad

[inner kayak]

i like this one more
https://feedback.vrchat.com/feature-requests/p/1142-feedback-clicking-vrcat-enough-should-make-it-fall-down

[mortal plume]

I love that it's tracked internally

[raw forge]

This is the most offtopic channel in the server xP

[timber jewel]

Basically

[wind talon]

The "Worlds" wing got in unintentionally. It's part of the upcoming Main Menu update, and isn't done and hasn't been reviewed yet. It'll be removed before we go Live, but you got a tiny preview.

Needless to say, due to that issue and a few other UI bugs, this RC unfortunately got rejected and we'll be fixing stuff to release another day 😄

[hard pond]

ahh, sure

[shrewd estuary]

rip worlds wing

today - today

main menu update next tho ⁉️

[hard pond]

but good to hear that there is planned menu update soon.

[shrewd estuary]

main menu next or i will personally come to your house and steal one of your vrcat plushies tupper

[wind talon]

it isn't next, we have some other stuff in between

but it is soon

[hard pond]

yeap (VRChat normal soon)

[shrewd estuary]

looks like im stealing a vrcat

[amber prairie]

When should we expect the next release candidate?

[rugged jetty]

Tomorrow mosf likely

[tulip fog]

I get the following error after importing the new beta. I forget what the way to fix this is:

Assembly 'Assets/VRCSDK/Dependencies/Managed/VRC.Collections.dll' will not be loaded due to errors:
Unable to resolve reference 'Unity.Burst'. Is the assembly missing or incompatible with the current platform?
Reference validation can be disabled in the Plugin Inspector.
Unable to resolve reference 'Unity.Mathematics'. Is the assembly missing or incompatible with the current platform?
Reference validation can be disabled in the Plugin Inspector.

[hard pond]

NDA...

[rugged jetty]

If they managed to fix what's broken till then

[tulip fog]

scrolls up

[hard pond]

both be Package Manager package, so maybe work on there?

[tulip fog]

lmao where is the question

[shrewd estuary]

[inland helm]

restart unity

[hard pond]

I meant....check you got Burst and Mathematics installed on Window-Package manager. (also yeah restart once before)

[tulip fog]

Did. Twice.

I'll do it again just to triple check

Ah, right so now I get this when trying to open the SDK window:

Caught ReflectionTypeLoadException in UpdateDelegator Job: Exception of type 'System.Reflection.ReflectionTypeLoadException' was thrown.
  at (wrapper managed-to-native) System.Reflection.Assembly.GetTypes(System.Reflection.Assembly,bool)
  at System.Reflection.Assembly.GetTypes () [0x00000] in <eae584ce26bc40229c1b1aa476bfa589>:0 
  at VRC.Tools.HasType (System.String typeStr) [0x0000f] in <fd084a77afe34357b636e47d49df1611>:0 
  at VRC.Tools.get_isClient () [0x0000c] in <fd084a77afe34357b636e47d49df1611>:0 
  at VRC.Core.API+<>c__DisplayClass36_0.<SendRequestInternal>g__FinishSendingRequest|0 () [0x00465] in <fd084a77afe34357b636e47d49df1611>:0 
(etc...)

[smoky spruce]

Just to be sure, is being unable to edit invite responses from QM one of those known bugs? I can just report it on canny anyway

[inland helm]

sorry that's the suggested fix in the updating sdk article lol its beyond me now

[hard pond]

IIRC, this is something reimport/reimport all multiple times fix it, isn't it?

[tulip fog]

eugh. Reimport all.

I'll give it a shot. Tis pain...

[tulip fog]

Alright we back to normal. Danke

[hard pond]

[wraith island]

Random German

[timber plinth]

few hours

🤞

[limber quartz]

Unfortunately, some bugs were found that have disqualified this current build as a RC.
#open-beta-discussion message

[lyric ocean]

sad

[lyric ocean]

hopefully tomorrow

[prisma ibex]

258 parameter memory when :3

[sullen elk]

soon (tm)

[severe citrus]

NOOOO

I really wanted the memory ;(

[hollow belfry]

Summer 2021

[timber jewel]

RIP Worlds Wing
24.05.2022 - 25.05.2022

Also, for it not being reviewed yet it works fairly well :p

[shrewd estuary]

[sullen elk]

At least we know what UI 3.0 will start to shape up to be

Hopefully UI 3.0 will have a stronger more robust infrastructure on the backend

[timber jewel]

There is no UI 3.0

[sullen elk]

Not as of yet. It’s much further down the pipeline as according to their dev log. But it is in active development to get there (that’s why we got a new quick menu)

[timber jewel]

New Quick Menu: UI 1.5
New Main Menu: UI 2.0
Customization & Udon Hooks: UI 2.5

[sour epoch]

You're thinking of UI 2.0, that's the new main menu update. The new quick menu was UI 1.5

and nah, world wing isn't representative of main menu at all, it's just a small addition to the quick menu

[sullen elk]

Those are phases, we can call it 2.0 if you want to I guess.
But keep in mind, we are technically in the second iteration of the UI because the menus changed from what it was in 2017 to something else more streamlined (I remember respawn button being moved for home button ew)
And now we have our new quick menu for the third iteration

But hey, let’s say it’s 2.0 just cause lol

I still can’t believe they did us dirty and moved the respawn button to the center.

[timber jewel]

Phasedragon works for VRChat, so you can trust what he says about the naming 😅

[sullen elk]

🤷‍♂️ as far as I remember they joked between naming it 2.0 or 3.0

Because it’s yes, it’s all true.

[sour epoch]

I mean you can call it whatever you want, that's what it's being called in development lol

I would argue that the two old UIs are still fundamentally the same, just kept adding and shifting stuff. Never really got a revamp enough to call it a new revision

[sullen elk]

Yeah, I understand. It’s all good. It is not a good feeling when it seems like I’m being told I’m wrong or something doesn’t exist because of a naming scheme though.

Hopefully, as with my first statement still holding.
When the new UI finishes release, the backend will be more robust for growth.
It’ll be great to have a setup to make cleanup or adjustments in the future more organized and less frustrating for those working with the API.

[stable wagon]

so close to update. i wonder what fail 😛

[limber quartz]

#open-beta-discussion message

some general ui bugs so probably shouldn't be too long for next build~

[stable wagon]

no. it all good 🙂 bug do happen.

[timber jewel]

I hope we will get a new RC today. It's just that the World Wing has to be removed and that the invite message edit to be fixed

[limber quartz]

Oh, invite message edit had a bug?

[timber jewel]

Ah no, it was the invite repsones:
https://feedback.vrchat.com/open-beta/p/1200-cant-edit-invite-response-message-in-quick-menu

And maybe they also fix this? Not really that important for thr RC, but it would be a welcome fix

https://feedback.vrchat.com/open-beta/p/1200-invert-mouse-look-option-also-inverts-scrolling-direction

[timber jewel]

Just wondering, but will we get to see any new Concept for the new Main Menu before it goes to Open Beta?

[crimson granite]

also curious about this ^

oh shit i forgot to unping my bad

[timber jewel]

Interesting, the new Input System will continue to press a button when you are tabbing out of VRChat. I don't think is is intended as it's also not the case in live. Just to be sure I made a canny for it: https://feedback.vrchat.com/open-beta/p/1200-if-you-tab-out-of-vrchat-while-pressing-a-button-the-game-will-continue-to

[inner kayak]

canny already exists, and it’s screwing with my sharex recordings

https://feedback.vrchat.com/open-beta/p/1197-key-pressing-is-preserved-if-you-release-the-key-while-losing-focus

[timber jewel]

Whoops my bad

[timber jewel]

Sometimes I wish the canny was better at showing similar posts

[shrewd estuary]

que the duplicate merge

[timber jewel]

It would be cool if we could merge our own posts in to the one from someone else if we find out that it's a duplicate .

[timber jewel]

ahhh I feel you pain so much right now, gosh I hope this gets fixed soon

[inner kayak]

driving me mad

[timber jewel]

I just always enter Safe Mode now....

[timber jewel]

In live the Action Menu blocks your Interaction with the World, in the current Open Beta this is not the case. You can still click on buttons or pickup objects when you have it open.
https://feedback.vrchat.com/open-beta/p/1200-action-menu-does-not-block-world-interaction

Well that went fast from being written to being tracked internally, thanks Tupper. ^^

[last viper]

same here, also happens in the live build

[timber jewel]

Live doesn't just continue to press a button when you Tab out of the game.

[last viper]

yesterday i kept being put into save mode whenever i went out of the menu, this started happening when i shift-tabbed to go into the steam overlay

[timber jewel]

Are you sure you where on live? Cause that only happens in Open Beta.

[last viper]

i can check real quick

yeah, can confirm i'm on live

[timber jewel]

Hm weird

[inner kayak]

ive never once ran into the issue on live

[timber jewel]

same

[marble sonnet]

regarding the higher parameter limit - how does that work on live servers right now? does it shave off the parameters at the bottom of the list such that it retains the default 128?

[wraith island]

If you use more than 128 on live it will nuke all

[marble sonnet]

tyty

[last viper]

I'll try to re-produce the issue tomorrow

[subtle spire]

The mouse cursor doesn't move on build 1200 desktop mode. Does it happen on your environment?
I can not be sure because it's too basic operation. after clicking left (or middle) button, it begins to move.

[hard pond]

1200 be too buggy in general around UI so can be possible to happen...

[timber jewel]

New RC today? :o

[hard pond]

maybe....

[timber jewel]

(hopefully)

[shrewd estuary]

[timber jewel]

Update time

[turbid moon]

Branches deleted 👀

[timber jewel]

Last

Hehe

[turbid moon]

Last

[timber jewel]

Pls

No

[hard pond]

!?

oh, all 3 updated

[timber jewel]

Open Beta is gone

[turbid moon]

everyone fight for da last

[hard pond]

let's see

[timber jewel]

Public Updated, Open Beta and IK beta got deleted

[trail bay]

;_;

[timber jewel]

[wind talon]

NOT ONLY AM I LAST HERE

ACTUALLY

nevermind

i'll leave #ik-2 open

idk

anyways i got stuff to do

oh right here ya go, here's what got fixed in 1201:

disabled worlds wing
prevented freezing trackers in a case that wasn't necessary
fixed edit button being broken for QM invite responses
fixed "invert mouse look" from inverting scrolling direction
fixed issue where OSC would stop working in some cases
fixed issue where the mouse cursor wouldn't appear on login
fixed issue where opening the action menu wouldn't disable world interactions

[timber jewel]

First

haha

[turbid moon]

OwO

[hard pond]

yes

[wooden mauve]

Nice

[timber jewel]

[limber quartz]

HMMMM?

[turbid moon]

But where the announcement at

[timber jewel]

So uh patch notes?

[inner kayak]

test time

[near grove]

bruh

[turbid moon]

oh it's just a lame beta this time

[shrewd estuary]

spooky

[hard pond]

huhh, really small open beta...

[inner kayak]

[near grove]

patch notes: fixed jitter moment

[inner kayak]

i like simple

[sullen elk]

Do I have time to test if this patch exploded my model or not. Hmmm

[timber jewel]

I'm now disappointed xD

[tropic forge]

smol beta

[near grove]

among us sussy imposter

[wind talon]

"FIX JITTERING BONES"
ok we fixed jittering bones here's a beta for the weekend
"wow lame beta"

[supple void]

This is local only right? Like~ if someone else isnt on the open beta they'll still see our stuff jittering right?

[wind talon]

fine we'll turn it off i guess

[shrewd estuary]

wasnt new main menu, im gonna steal ur vrcat

[inner kayak]

[wind talon]

its saturday

you realize that right

[modern flame]

smh not living dangerously and pushing to live

[next snow]

I'd rather have udon precence first lol

[modern flame]

it's only a few lines of code how much could it break 🙃

[next snow]

Imagine how much better worlds could be if they could just save

[near grove]

new main menu when~

how dare this beta update not have FBT IK 3.0 with no trackers and using brain waves onto a usb dongle to simulate FBT tracking

:(

im so disappointed, come on vrchat

[bright pewter]

having a good understanding of funny computer physics being affected by user input, Im gonna wager A LOT can break here.

[sullen elk]

soon (tm)

[bright pewter]

Hopefully nothing does

[ionic bison]

We're using open beta to get a fix out to people who want it, without actually doing a live patch on the weekend

because that's asking for a whole lot of bad times

[hard pond]

ic

[timber jewel]

Makes sense ^^

[sullen elk]

Yeah, my model doesn't have any visible issues.
Thanks for the patch!

[exotic swan]

I'mma be serious, thanks a lot, that bug was driving me nuts last night

[shrewd estuary]

weekend moment

[timber jewel]

Who ever worked on this, thank you for spending your weekend on this. <3

[modern flame]

So here's the real question

Who was annoyed enough at the jitter that they wanted it fixed for their weekend and said screw it we can push it out to open beta too

[errant cypress]

That's a great question

[limber quartz]

The furry community :v

[modern flame]

which dev

[inner kayak]

[limber quartz]

Oh wait

Last bit of your comment there lol

But yeah, lot of noise from the furry community as everyone's tails were freaking the hell out because of the bug.

[modern flame]

hotfixing the bug for personal fun and profit and just pushing it out to the beta channel so less people would complain

[naive dragon]

IMO the jittering bones made vrc unplayable for me, just broke any little sense of immersion it had

[wind talon]

it had a disproportionally large effect on furries lol

since furries use certain prefabs that allow tail wagging with animations way more

interesting accidential experiment

[naive dragon]

no comment

[timber jewel]

Furries be like tail goes brrrrr

[lyric ocean]

so we experimenting on furries now

[timber jewel]

ferries?

[naive dragon]

ferries?

[errant cypress]

ferries?

[sullen elk]

Yeah, all the ship girls

[lyric ocean]

you saw nothing

[wind talon]

⛴️

[errant cypress]

ah yes totally not suspicious

[sullen elk]

I think some people call the kancolles

[lyric ocean]

bully

[timber jewel]

pat pat

[wind talon]

boatgirls, kaminos, and ferries

and boothcats

the 4 vrchat avatar types

[sullen elk]

All four used to live in peace and harmony, until

[timber jewel]

they began to jitter

[tender dome]

j

[timber jewel]

i

[errant cypress]

t

[lyric ocean]

t

[tender dome]

no

[sullen elk]

is that a custom joke?

[errant cypress]

:T

sippbox you're no fun

[lyric ocean]

cancel sipp the fun killer

[errant cypress]

lol rip

[sudden hull]

lol

[timber jewel]

well

[sullen elk]

Why are you all such gremlins lmao

[sudden hull]

:D

[molten cobalt]

that seems like a decent compromise

[errant cypress]

i-- how. why

[molten cobalt]

I just finished watching Gremlins 2

[timber jewel]

In germany we would say "quadratisch, praktisch, gut"

[molten cobalt]

when I was on yesterday it was affecting about 60% of the furry avatars

[errant cypress]

the jitter was noticeable at high framerates and low framerates iirc

if you were at like... 60fps ish, they were much less noticeable

[limber quartz]

I'm bouta do a full QA pass myself :v

[timber jewel]

2 weeks later

[limber quartz]

https://feedback.vrchat.com/open-beta/p/1204-broken-icon-in-nameplate-display-settings

https://tenor.com/view/fix-futurama-help-fry-fixit-gif-4525230

[plain orchid]

Transparency on a few elements are broken

[timber jewel]

on what else?

[limber quartz]

Which elements you noticed?

[timber jewel]

Also, not new to this beta, tis has been the case for a while now

Like the block icon on a kick notificationhttps://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/816617882099384371/980247871750275082/unknown.png

not new to this beta though

[plain orchid]

That one

Few more I saw but I’m not home

Few of the invite icons were wonky looking

[shrewd estuary]

ferries?

[errant cypress]

Was this reported when it happened before

[near grove]

oh so the jittering should be fixed now? epic

it happened a lot when ppl tried to pull my hoodie strings lol

[plucky owl]

can we also get capsule contacts fixed for proximity

[wind talon]

only if you make a canny post

#open-beta-discussion message

[plucky owl]

The post has been made since march and was marked as Tracked Internally https://feedback.vrchat.com/avatar-dynamics-reports-and-feedback/p/1181-proximity-contact-does-not-work-with-capsules

[sour epoch]

huh, I was using contact receiver just the other day and it worked fine. Are you sure this is still happening?

it's a bit counter-intuitive since proximity measured proximity to the spheres of the capsule, not proximity to the center of the capsule. But it did function

[wind talon]

We are unable to repro.

[sour epoch]

I could investigate further, maybe it doesn't work on the cylinder part of the capsule?

[limber quartz]

I haven't tested yet since last time, but the proximity for capsules were still broken. I wanted to use capsule proximity for one of my contacts on my snout but could only to get it to work as a constant.

[sour epoch]

and you were definitely checking against the sphere part of the capsule?