vrchat-general-2

[open crescent]

same, not worth the 10 bucks in my opinion

[lethal jay]

I could technically do that but I have the same mindset I have with vrc+, I use discord all the time so I might as well support them more

[unreal verge]

I barely used all the features except bigger upload limit. But i don't have 200GB cloud storage for no reason.

[vocal shard]

Really, The only reason I got nitro is for the emotes and bigger uploads

[unreal verge]

I used emotes not enough to justify even the classic sub

[lethal jay]

I use my boosts though too, which is a big part of nitro I like

[vocal shard]

And the animated pfp is a nice touch to things

[lethal jay]

Yeah, though I sometimes forget my pfp is animated and by sometimes, I mean all the time

Speaking of which, it's about time to change it. I've had it for about 5 months now

[unreal verge]

Lasr time i tried to make a animated pfp i sat there for hours to make it perfect

[vocal shard]

Really?

I just got an animated pfp from helluva boss and it was perfect

[unreal verge]

Yeah i used to take hours to upload one animated pfp, but they also were selfmade so...

[lethal jay]

I just find mine randomly on the internet, I don't generally ask people to make me one

[unreal verge]

I don't like using pictures from the internet for my pfp

[vocal shard]

Mine usually take about 5 minutes because I have trashy internet

[unreal verge]

I always make them myself

[lethal jay]

Imma get so much hate for this pfp I am about to upload, who wants to bet

[vocal shard]

I am trying to register a new account to link with my steam one, and every time I try to it says ":400 Invalid Recaptcha token." Even though i was passing the robot test thingy. refreshed the page and am trying again, and now its just saying "Unknown error has occured". Anyone know this issue and how to fix it?

[lethal jay]

Hmmmm yup there we go

[vocal shard]

Why would you get hate for that pfp?

[lethal jay]

Nanachi

[vocal shard]

It's pretty adorable

[jovial kestrel]

Made in Abyss is absolutely ||based||.

[vocal shard]

[lethal jay]

It's what my main avatar is based off of

[unreal verge]

One thing i want to add, i despise malicious mods. People that use them to ruin others day should definitely get banned. I don't have anything against QoL though. I've lots of friends who are using mods. I think at least half of my friend list. But people that want to ruin others fun can go to VRChat jail.

[lethal jay]

There is the other side to that though, if the mod creators wanted they could add malicious code into it to keylog or stuff like that and most people won't know since they don't look through the files themselves to check if it's actually bad or not

That's where the issue is stemming from right now

[unreal verge]

That's unfortunately with everything in the internet that way. It's a matter of who you trust.

Anything on your pc could suddenly go havoc

[lethal jay]

Also just changed my username

[unreal verge]

You especially shouldn't trust creators that create mods that are meant to ruin others fun. They're the most shady ones.

Other than that it's always your own risk and responsibility if something goes wrong.

[lethal jay]

The other fact is it's still against their rules so you shouldn't do it anyways

[unreal verge]

That's one of the things you're risking if you do it anyways

[vocal shard]

Anytime someone joins with mods, any mods, I start to lag and have other problems. They ruin the fun for others, there’s no such thing as a good mod in vrc

i meeeean, thats not always true

[unreal verge]

You wouldn't even know if someone uses mods

[lethal jay]

Yeah the issue there is you don't know if they have em or not

[unreal verge]

Unless they start things like portal dropping people

[vocal shard]

My only internet is still hotspot so I have the worst internet and yeah I can tell as soon as someone joins shit goes bad

That aint a mod issue fam

Yeah it is

[unreal verge]

You'll only ever know if someone is using a mod if they're flying around (but that's not 100% sure anymore because Playspace mover and mods flying look the same now) or are attacking someone with unusual stuff.

[lethal jay]

It's really not, you just don't have a way of knowing if they have mods or not

[vocal shard]

You’re breaking the game

99% of the time its an unoptimized avatar breaking your game lol

[lethal jay]

And playspace and flying do look different (to me at least, I use playspace mover)

[vocal shard]

I don’t have avatars shown

[unreal verge]

Mods aren't breaking your game since 99% of mods are local only

[limpid abyss]

🟠

[vocal shard]

I can’t afford it with only 30 gb a month

[lethal jay]

The main difference between someone flying and using playspace is, to use playspace you also move your arms around. Flying does not

[unreal verge]

@lethal jay mmh ok didn't had the chance to see it anymore for a while

[vocal shard]

Everyone just trying to defend their wrong doings

What is even happening in here

[lethal jay]

I don't know tbh

[molten gale]

🍿

[vocal shard]

yeah, i don't even know lol

[molten gale]

What are these arguments lmao

[unreal verge]

My placespace looks like mods cause i setted it up the way that i just need to do a minimal hand gesture to start placespace mover with zero gravity and it will let me fly in the direction until i press the button again to stop

[maiden aspen]

Vrchat need VAC Ban or over management who use non-approved programs :(

[lethal jay]

No one was arguing, at least I don't think so

[molten gale]

Playspacemover doesnt change your hitbox, flying does

[limpid abyss]

@maiden aspen true would be fun to see people get fat vac bans for this stuff

[molten gale]

with psm your hitbox stays on the floor

[unreal verge]

Yep you can't go over a cliff with Playspace for example

You'll still fall despite looking like flying for others

[lethal jay]

Yup collision is still a thing

[unreal verge]

Your camera can move anywhere even through walls but the avatar not

[lethal jay]

Yeah, I remember like 3 or so years ago when that didn't happen

[unreal verge]

So you'll disconnect from your avatar if you collide with something

My whole SteamVR's bindings are mapped around Playspace for different games

[open crescent]

mods will not pay for a better internet for you...

[unreal verge]

Would be too nice if they do

[open crescent]

it would indeed

but otherwise I agree with captainkidd mods are potentially bad for everyone so just don't use them please

[maiden aspen]

@unreal verge maybe better way is vrchat
divide server ex. Global / asia → server ping is diffrent to asia and other

[limpid abyss]

you say that, meanwhile 60% of the community is

[molten gale]

If you use them, please get yourself banned <3

[unreal verge]

Lol rip 50+% of my friends list

[maiden aspen]

@limpid abyss indeed!

[slow cypress]

Not yet LOL

[vocal shard]

facts lol

[molten gale]

deserved lol

[open crescent]

they knew what they were doing so it is to be expected

[unreal verge]

I know from more people of my 160+ friends that they use mods than people that play vanilla. But i don't know anyone from them harming anyone. Otherwise i would have blocked them if i ever see this.

[vocal shard]

Even if people don’t use them in a harmful way it still harms people that’s all I’m saying

Curious to know what you mean by that?

[unreal verge]

It'll only harm themselves if they get banned because of it

[hollow coyote]

a lot of people use clients to optimize VRchat like. optimize mirror, turn off post processing, disable bones in avatars that arent in your view, etc.

[safe grotto]

I use a modded client to look at my ovr battery stats as well as get my haptic feedback working, my question is how does that hurt anyone else?

[open crescent]

the problem is vrchat can't guarantee that a mod is "good" or "bad" or "safe" or anything, so potentially they can be harmful to anyone

[vocal shard]

Not everyone lives where internet is provided and every time someone is in the world that I am with mods it causes problems, I’m at a limit as it is, if you don’t live with 3mbps you’ll never understand

[open crescent]

also you can look at battery stats with other things, can't the OVR software thingie do that?

[unreal verge]

I wouldn't be honest about using mods in this server. Mods will ban you if they see this.

[open crescent]

OVR toolkit

[hollow coyote]

XSOverly and OVRtoolkit lets you see your Battery% fps, GPU, RAM, etc.

[open crescent]

OVR toolkit renders on top of other apps so you don't need to modify a game

[vocal shard]

OVRToolkit is fine, it doesn't mod the game so to speak

[safe grotto]

Yeah there is something about using ovr in there

[lethal jay]

I use fpsvr which also does that, gives me gpu, cpu usage and temps and tracker battery life among other things. You don't need a mod for that

[unreal verge]

Again, someone with a modded client is not affecting you in any way. The mods are all local only and don't affect other players in any way unless they're a crasher or something of course. But these people can go straight into the trash.

[open crescent]

that is false, the mods are not all "local only"

[unreal verge]

I use fpsVR, XSOverlay and OVRAdvanced

[safe grotto]

Like my haptic feedback vest, who is that going to break in a game because my character can feel

[lethal jay]

Also, @vocal shard I do live with that condition, people joining with mods does not affect me

[unreal verge]

All non-malicious usually are

[open crescent]

they don't modify other people's code of course but that doesn't mean they can't abuse the network or cause problems to others

well but as I said vrchat can't control or guarantee that any mod is "non-malicious"

[unreal verge]

True.

[slow cypress]

Okay, so a bunch of users get their computers compromised by using a mod, it gets traced back to VRC and their the only one's being blamed for it. Does that sound fine?

[vocal shard]

It’s not every persons mods but many of them do effect me and it’s not my pc

[unreal verge]

As long they don't have any official pipeline for this they can't review anything

[lethal jay]

It is your pc because as I stated, I have the same kind of internet as you and I do not have those problems

[unreal verge]

I'm sorry to hear that you run into malicious people a lot

[hollow coyote]

Honestly speaking VRchat isnt a perfect game. it has multiple different ways to "mod" it whether it be local or world based. over my two years of playing which amounts to 3750 hours the only time i dont have a 50/50 chance of coming in contact with someone who doesnt use a client is in an invite or invite+ world lol clients are literally everywhere in hot worlds.

[open crescent]

there's a lot of dickheads is what you're saying, it's like the edgy kids

[lethal jay]

It really isn't, for the past 2 weeks, at least once a day I see some kid just flying around and through walls

[unreal verge]

That's kinda their own fault. You don't go around and download stuff from anywhere in the internet. If you don't do your research while downloading anything on the internet then that's kinda oof

And if these mods are on something like github then they're open source, so definitely possible to check the safety.

[open crescent]

even paid games get dickheads like overwatch, but of course being a free game there's prone to be more

[hollow coyote]

the flying through walls isnt a problem. its the F9 pressing world clappers or ram crashers, steal and upload your avatar mods, portal droppers. ive seen so much crap i just rarely join publics unless im that bored.

[slow cypress]

That's not the point. The point is they can still get in trouble for it, or at least have their image damaged by appearing to not care about security.

[unreal verge]

Everything on the internet has the possibility to be or become malware at some point

[lethal jay]

Don't mention them by name

Again don't mention them by name

[unreal verge]

Yep can recommend to not mention anything specific if you want to stay on this server

[vocal shard]

oh boy lol

[unreal verge]

I already saw enough people getting banned while discussing mods here

[deft girder]

🤦‍♂️

[lethal jay]

Oml @vocal shard don't mention them by name

[open crescent]

hehe

[slow cypress]

Y'all gotta stop naming mods.

[onyx rock]

Hey does anybody wanna be my friend?

[safe grotto]

I think whats going to be funny is they will lose a good amount of traffic in their servers

[lethal jay]

Their own fault for running stuff that isn't allowed

[unreal verge]

If a big ban wave really hits it'll definitely get interesting how the player counts will be after this

[onyx rock]

Wdym?

[open crescent]

then everyone else gets better performance? that's great

[lethal jay]

Also yeah ^ I mean new years, shall I say more?

[fathom cargo]

no? that's the fault of terribly optimized avatars lmao

[safe grotto]

Yeah, optimization just generally sucks

[open crescent]

well if there are suddenly 10,000 less users that's 10,000 less potentially horrible avatars, and less load on the server

[unreal verge]

The curse of user generated content

[vocal shard]

I agree

[open crescent]

everyone wins, except the banned guys who were using mods of course hehe

[unreal verge]

It'll definitely hurt player base thought. I think the German player base will suddenly die then.

[hollow coyote]

people are actually running around with 8k textures and 1mil poly pieces of jewelry. lol

[safe grotto]

I mean performance will still be the same, just because a couple people are removed from the server doesnt mean the skins will go away as well

[fathom cargo]

^ yep...

[open crescent]

it means all the skins of those people will go away which is good, and their load on the server too

[fathom cargo]

all of those people have alts anyway

[vocal shard]

lol..

[safe grotto]

still their skins existed somewhere

[hollow coyote]

isnt there like... well over a couple of million accounts that dont even play anymore too?

[crimson solar]

I don’t think that mods and crasher avatars are connected lol

[open crescent]

well if their alts don't have mods then still everyone wins

[unreal verge]

Of course their alts would have mods, what do you expect?

[crimson solar]

^ that, lmao

[safe grotto]

mods dont always cause higher poly's some avatars have incredibly high poly counts

[open crescent]

then they can get banned again and everyone still wins

[crimson solar]

They can just make more alts...

[unreal verge]

And they're coming back again, it's an endless circle

[open crescent]

well if they keep getting banned that's on them

[safe grotto]

I mean then they just make new accounts

[fathom cargo]

do you not realize how rarely mod users get banned

[unreal verge]

But i actually don't know anyone that got banned because of mods, not even after more than 5000 hours of playtime

[crimson solar]

Yeah, VRChat has no server-side detection at the moment

[lethal jay]

You are aware that as of right now, they literally have no way to detect if people are using mods

[vocal shard]

I was dealing with a guy that had way to many accounts, had to block the same person over 20 times and I’ll keep doing it no matter how many alts he creates

[unreal verge]

The only way to get banned because of mods right now is to get reported with proof

[crimson solar]

Yeah

[open crescent]

it's a pain in the ass for the developers for sure, but that doesn't mean you should be defending mods

[unreal verge]

Or if you poke at the API too much

[lethal jay]

I feel sorry for the chat mods rn ngl, just having to watch this and be on alert for specific mod name mentions

[crimson solar]

If they added global dynamic bones to vrc+ or something I’d have no complaints about cracking down on mods honestly

[safe grotto]

there are certain mods that help specific players or add a new edge to the game

[unreal verge]

That's kinda the VRChat teams fault, without the announcement all these discussions today would have never happened

[open crescent]

dynamic bones can be used by anyone what do you mean

[hollow coyote]

ill admit. you gotta give some of the people that put in a lot of effort towards mods that do something for the game that's good some credit. a lot of them have mad coding skills

[open crescent]

back to the same, vrchat can't control or guarantee what a mod does, so they can't risk it

[crimson solar]

Global dbs, where you can interact with the bones of other people

[unreal verge]

He means the ability to touch others hair for example and it moves accordingly.

[safe grotto]

I mean they could by having people report the mods that are hurting people

[open crescent]

ahh well yeah that would be cool, it might even be on their roadmap but they have other stuff with higher priority in their to do lists probably

[open crescent]

that is not a guarantee

[lethal jay]

It is, they have to redo the db system though since it's very laggy if they enabled it

[unreal verge]

They actually implement some features of mods recently. I know a certain mod even removed their own feature after they added avatar parameter saving themselves.

[crimson solar]

What I’m saying is that it’s possible with mods... a non-malicious yet super-nice feature that warrants the existence of select mods

Just have the features in mods added to base game and then it’s not an issue

[open crescent]

but since they can't guarantee it, they can't and won't risk it

[unreal verge]

That's actually the best way to combat mods

[open crescent]

we can request features and stuff in the meanwhile, and maybe they'll add cool stuff, but you can't force it on them. (you can play other games meanwhile I think neosvr lets you grab people)

[unreal verge]

If all these features would be natives no one would feel the need to go out of their way to install them

[crimson solar]

Exactly. 98% of mod users just want non-malicious qol stuff. Even if you needed vrc+ for them the modding community would implode

[lethal jay]

They can't exactly just do that either since something one of the vrc team said was it takes a while to make official updates because they have to make sure it will work for future updates too or something like that

[unreal verge]

Wtf my pc just restarted itself after inactivity lmao

[lethal jay]

And there are also a lot of bugs they need to fix

[open crescent]

that's what you get for defending mods lmao

[unreal verge]

It's Windows Updates lol

[crimson solar]

Mod teams seem to keep it working pretty well, I don’t see why a team with actual funding couldn’t

[lethal jay]

Because mod teams just jam their code in, the official team can't just do that and expect it to always work

[unreal verge]

It would get a total mess real quick

[crimson solar]

Better yet; some sort of “risky features” toggle to enable the less stable features

[twin shale]

some of the global dynamic bones implementations from before by clients are literally just jamming all of the dynamic bone colliders on the scene into every player's dynamic bones component. Quality modded client implementation, bye bye framerate

[open crescent]

ew

[fathom cargo]

can we just have decent safety settings?

[open crescent]

seem decent to me

[crimson solar]

If it were enabled I imagine that it would be disabled by default, and toggled in performance settings like dynamic bones themseves

[twin shale]

that's not the point though

[lethal jay]

Once again, feel bad for the chat mods

[open crescent]

they can't have a "turn this on to make your game go to shit" button

[crimson solar]

dynamic bone enable button tho

[fathom cargo]

it's essentially pointless, you can literally make an excellent performance crasher if you have a shader for it

[twin shale]

more like 10 fps gameplay button

[open crescent]

even now every day we get an idiot coming to the server immediately spamming the admins with insulting messages

[cold dome]

my framerate is great

[unreal verge]

I always have my dynamic bones enabled, but i have only friends avatars turned on

[crimson solar]

They could kill two birds with one stone... allow global dynamic bones to be enabled for friends only or even toggled for individuals, like how it’s already been implemented

Keep the fps up

[cold dome]

@twin shale where are you having fps issues? never seen that

[twin shale]

that's exactly the problem, working on a temporary implementation of said feature is just not a good idea. Why would they half ass something into the client they have to keep fixing and reworking later and have a chance of it breaking in the next updates? Because that's essentially how the code of most mods would work if you were to implement them just like that

[unreal verge]

It's their time, if they've fun then whatever

Not like they're forced to do this stuff

[open crescent]

if you have avatars hidden you won't see crasher shaders

[unreal verge]

There are lobby crashers which go through your safety settings

[open crescent]

but yeah I guess something super crazy that maually checks each shader could be theoretically be made but it would be very hard to do

[crimson solar]

That’s not at all what I’m saying they do. Given they have the source code and resources, I believe they would be able to eventually add GDBs as a fully integrated feature. Mods have to cram their unstable code in because that’s how mods for most games essentially work

[hollow coyote]

actually for a split second when you load into a world avatars are shown then they get hidden

[lethal jay]

Would extremely lag you out if that happened

Also yes caven it would but it takes time and there are more pressing concerns to having gdb

[twin shale]

Yeah, That's where the problem is they have to spend much more time making sure this code is written well and won't cause any issues in the future and it has to be tested properly. This takes a lot of time and resources and they have currently much higher priorities than implementing global dynamic bones

[cold dome]

@twin shale we need global dynamic bones NOW!

[hollow coyote]

your pc doesnt need dynamic bones.lol trust me.

[open crescent]

you can always try the other games meanwhile if you feel the entitledness

[twin shale]

^ if you need a dose of global dynamic bones or you won't survive by any means go ahead if it's all that matters in VRChat

[cold dome]

is pimax 5k super worth it @hollow coyote

[open crescent]

but yeah as soon as that is turned on then the same 300MB avatars with 64000 dynamic bones will be all over the place lmao

[hollow coyote]

mine is still being delivered so i hope so. lol

[crimson solar]

I don’t see why the rudeness is needed? All I’m saying is adding mod features would be the best way to prevent modding. You don’t have to resort to insults.

[unreal verge]

I block everything over 100MB (but i don't performance block)

[fathom cargo]

oh idk... again, as it was suggested, friends only/individually toggleable, or maybe proximity

[crimson solar]

This seems like the best option imo

[open crescent]

I don't mean to insult you. I am in favour of adding more cool features to the game. But it is unfair to the devs to claim you are entitled to use the mod because they haven't implemented a feature.

[crimson solar]

That’s not what I’m saying. I don’t use mods, I dont feel entitled to it. All that I’m saying is that those features are why most people use mods, and adding them is the most effective way to eliminate vrchat mods.

[fathom cargo]

problem is lots of those features have been requested for over 3 years. you really expect people to not be annoyed/mad at that?

[open crescent]

and about trying other games, it is true, there are quite a few "clones" and you can try them all I have tried a few and that is not a bad thing to say

[cold dome]

they should be allowing mods with an official API, not trying to stop them

[open crescent]

requesting something doesn't mean the devs are obligated to do it. you can request literally anything if you want

but I am not saying the game is perfect of course

[crimson solar]

And that’s what I’m doing. I know the devs aren’t obligated, obvs.

[lethal jay]

They can't do that for several reasons that have been clearly stated

[cold dome]

of course they can

[fathom cargo]

cmon... they aren't making the game for themselves... ignoring all of those possible and highly requested features is... essentially promoting people to use clients

[unreal verge]

Please don't say clients. Mods aren't clients. The game itself uses a client only.

[open crescent]

you are exactly saying you are entitled to use mods because they haven't implemented features.

[twin shale]

<#vrchat-general-1 message>

[open crescent]

I am not part of the dev team so I can't say what their plans or schedules are (and neither are you) but they don't skip features to spite you, of course they want users to like their game, but they can't magically do everything anyone wants.

[cold dome]

I'm not convinced

[fathom cargo]

? look. i'm not everyone in the world, but you literally can't deny that not implementing many of those features will lead many to use said mods

[twin shale]

yeah what the hell imagine having much more important tasks to implement rather than implementing global dynamic bones first world problems

[cold dome]

@fathom cargo and @twin shale try to relax

[fathom cargo]

i type for a while cause im in vr and slow lol

[lethal jay]

I know that feeling -_-

[ruby burrow]

One of the issues behind the global dynamics thing, is honestly the reasons for people wanting it. Because to be entirely blunt about it, there's not many reasons that don't stray outside of the games intended scope and terms of service.
On the innocent end of the spectrum you just have trivial stuff like ruffling some hair or cat ears for extra immersive headpats, and on the other end of the spectrum you have the stuff that the devs are specifically wary about destroying the platforms reputation.

90% of the uses for this feature, are not activities which the game condones.

[fathom cargo]

90% of people seem to use mods for performance and maybe gdb

[lethal jay]

I wouldn't say it's 90% though, sure a lot of people would use it for that but... not 90%

[ruby burrow]

I meant for global DB specifically, rather than sanctioned mods etc.

[open crescent]

I would say you are pulling those numbers out of some unsightly places

and it doesn't really matter, they still can't guarantee or control it so it's not going to happen

[ruby burrow]

Well people sure aren't downloading these mods in such numbers just to ruffle some cat ears.

[twin shale]

don't think i know anyone who would download mods just for performance, most of them use it for more favorites, avatar browsing and global dynamic bones

[lethal jay]

What they do in their own spare time is their own matter, it's still not 90% though

[cold dome]

by some estimates over 40% of the community is using mods, telling mods to go away is the same as telling half your players to leave

[open crescent]

we are just repeating the conversation from before

[ruby burrow]

Yeah, I'm not judging the activity, just stating that it's not at all surprising why the devs have never seen it as a particularly desirable or priority feature.

[lethal jay]

Yeah, all I have to say and will say about that is. If they are using mods and get banned, then so be it. Most will stop when they see a mass wave of bans

[cold dome]

The devs aren't going to ban their way out of this issue.

[lethal jay]

Again not saying anything more about it

[cold dome]

Prohibition never works.

[vocal shard]

love making people laugh with my soundboards

[open crescent]

you don't need mods to enjoy the game

[twin shale]

It's against TOS and everyone knows that when they get into such things, if they get banned / their data is going to get stolen / they will get a virus that's just entirely the fault of the person using those and excuses like "I didn't know" won't work

[open crescent]

and you can use soundboards with ovrtoolkit

[ruby burrow]

Despite their overall lenient attitude towards adult activities so far, that subject does remain one of their biggest hurdles for ever getting the game taken seriously in the outside world. Ever noticed how whenever media sites mention VR-Chat, they very frequently exclude or try to gloss over the name?

[vocal shard]

voicemod *

[open crescent]

not really, do you have links?

[cold dome]

that's just fearmongering

[open crescent]

this is fearmongering

[cold dome]

:huhwhat:

[vocal shard]

My god, this conversation is still going?

[molten gale]

Yeap

[twin shale]

So you are saying that one day a person can't just suddenly push a commit with a virus into the code?

[lethal jay]

At this point it might be a good idea to get a chat mod in here, this has been out of hand for a while now

[cold dome]

who wants the game "taken seriously in the outside world?" you looking to have it ruined? the game is just fine how it is. stop trying to fix something that isnt broken

[vocal shard]

Timezones exist, heck i only just woke up so its interesting to talk about

What the fuck is even happening in here

[open crescent]

lmao yeah I think I'm just gonna stop

[cold dome]

not true

[lethal jay]

Im stopping too

[ruby burrow]

I'd have to ask my friend for some links. She's the one who rants to me about this. That the media is biased against VR-Chat. Will happily mention other platforms such as Big Screen or Rec-Room, but VR-Chat doesn't exist or is avoided being mentioned by name, instead just referring to it as "VR".

[cold dome]

we can repeat it 10 more times until you understand

[lethal jay]

This is literally just out of hand at this point

[fathom cargo]

while I do agree you on that, many won't agree with you, and you can't do much about that...

[open crescent]

So, do you guys have good horror worlds to recommend? I played one with evil teddy bears and it just bugged out and killed me 5 times instantly

[ruby burrow]

I only just came in. :v

[cold dome]

? That's a good thing....

[lethal jay]

I can't handle vr horror games

[static cape]

What is better for vrchat Rift S or Quest 2

[lethal jay]

I've tried help wanted and I couldn't even get 5 minutes in before quitting. Never touched it since

[open crescent]

it's scary you mean?

[lethal jay]

Yeah, I don't handle horror well

[open crescent]

is that a vrchat world?

[cold dome]

agreed, closer to 80% I'd say though

[lethal jay]

No, fnaf help wanted is a vr game

[open crescent]

ah, damn lol

[lethal jay]

I would say it depends tbh, if you can handle a bit of a dip in resolution I would say quest 2 for the portability of it

[open crescent]

you can use the Quest 2 with your PC tho, I'm not sure if the specs of the rift s are better than the quest's

[ruby burrow]

The concern my friend has, is that VR-Chat will end up going the same path as Second Life. Doomed to become a fringe adult role play sim, that never reaches it's potential.

[cold dome]

Agreed 100%. It is pleasing to hear a voice of reason among a cacophony of ignorance

[lethal jay]

Rift s is better in terms of specs because it uses displayport instead of just usb3.0

[cold dome]

It's perfect right now, don't change a thing

[open crescent]

I see

[ruby burrow]

Communities change over time whether you change the game or not.

[fathom cargo]

I wholeheartedly disagree with that. Went from a Rift S to a Quest 2 and it's so much better. Better controllers, wireless with Virtual Desktop is awesome, visuals and refresh rate are both better.

[ruby burrow]

There's a reason why the devs have prioritised their efforts into things like UDON and AV3 over global DB.

[golden scaffold]

With developments like Avatar 3.0 and Udon, our intentions are much more broad than just that. Empowering creators to do much more than just RP if they want to is kind of one of the reasons I fell in love with VRChat before I even joined on the team. It's a good trajectory for the future.

[open crescent]

interesting point of view, so maybe the rift s is becoming a bit outdated now?

[lucid sandal]

Rift S is outdated yes

[ruby burrow]

Speak of the devil. Case in point. xD

[golden scaffold]

It is no longer sold, so it's pretty reasonable to expect that the Quest 2 will receive more updates than the Rift S in the future.

[lucid sandal]

Quest is better and cheaper than it. Plus wireless with Virtual Desktop

[fathom cargo]

Well to be honest it has always been a weird headset...

[open crescent]

It's no longer sold? damn well then there's not much more to be said

[fathom cargo]

It has literally never gotten any support from Oculus...

[lucid sandal]

It literally still has the robot voice issue too

[fathom cargo]

The microphone issues have been extremely common from day 1, and that will never be fixed. ^^^

[twin shale]

Exactly this is why VRC probably won't be such a thing - instead of standing in place and improving upon existing things they work on completely new stuff that introduces completely new things to the platform, and it's actually amazing. A lot of community for some reason tends to forget about things like AV3 and Udon releases being a thing and acting as if there was nothing new for a while.

[lethal jay]

Yeah which it sucks but I use my own headset with a mic so I don't have an issue with sounding underwater

[fathom cargo]

Quest 2 mic is actually good honestly

[golden scaffold]

Our very talented creators are to thank for that. There's almost always an interesting world for me to explore every time I'm on that I haven't been to before and that's amazing.

[open crescent]

I think Second Life was a great idea but the technology was still in a very early stage, recent technology has made everything so much different for VR, so much cooler

[twin shale]

Yeah, it's truly amazing what some of the people managed to achieve with UDON truly amazing stuff

[ruby burrow]

Yep. It's one of the frustrating things about the debate, is that the game has been expanding and improving dramatically, but people who want to play it a certain way will always complain that it's not catering to their own interests.

[static cape]

rift s is still being sold now for $299

[lethal jay]

Welp that got deleted pretty fast and also it's not being sold officially from oculus

[golden scaffold]

Of course, things aren't perfect and we get that things have the potential to break, but I can guarantee you that any failure is a learning lesson. Previous mistakes are typically not really repeated.

Make enough mistakes + learn enough stuff and you know exactly what you're doing. It's cool, but can be frustrating along the way.

[twin shale]

I don't know, i'm really satisfied with how AV3 and Udon came out, it might not be perfect just yet but it will improve and was improving for the past few updates

[static cape]

rift s is still for sale on oculus site for 299

[lethal jay]

I am personally pleased with how AV3 turned out so far

[golden scaffold]

That's really awesome to hear

[fathom cargo]

if you're planning on playing beat saber on it though, either rift s or quest 2 with link, cause virtual desktop and beat saber isn't a very pleasant experience

quest native beat saber is quite good however

[ruby burrow]

Udon is a horrible awful feature because it gives me a really compelling reason to want to learn to code. xD
And I'm already putting so much mental energy into trying to learn everything else.

[lethal jay]

^ yeah virtual desktop has delay on it due to it being compressed and decompressed before seeing the visuals

[static cape]

Only worried about how vrchat will run with fullbody as well

on the rift s or quest 2

[static cape]

right

[golden scaffold]

I believe there's enough guides and information about how to do that reasonably well now, so definitely worth researching.

[hybrid pier]

I got a rift s for myself for $300 it was a good purchase, granted I have not used a quest 2 but what drove me away from it is the fact that the tether cable was $80 and quest is very weird in general

[lethal jay]

I use fullbody with quest 1, works perfectly fine

[open crescent]

you can already do that (need a PC of course)

[lucid sandal]

KinectToVR is fine for a budget. Vive trackers get expensive.

[static cape]

I have a good pc.

[ruby burrow]

A friend of mine has been prodding me all year about learning Udon, so that I can transfer my Safari world over to it and get the animals free roaming around

[twin shale]

I'm suffering from this i can never learn code no matter how hard i try.. i tried so many times now

[hybrid pier]

Is rift s actually not being produced anymore? I got one on Amazon on January 8th

[ruby burrow]

Have been holding off, but gotta start some time.

[fathom cargo]

15 ft usb c cables are 20$, no need for the official one, and virtual desktop is awesome for vrchat -- wireless, good experience, and you can easily charge the headset while playing,

[static cape]

Any problems with field of view when tracking hands \

[hybrid pier]

I was just recommended the rift s by several people, so I went with rhat

[lethal jay]

I haven't even gotten started with av2 creation, so I have no reason to go straight to av3 and udon

[lucid sandal]

Get a battery on your head. Acts as a good counterbalance

[ruby burrow]

At this point, start with AV3. There's no reason to do AV2 if you don't already know it.

[hybrid pier]

Maybe sorta impulse bought it cuz of ending production

[fathom cargo]

if anything the tracking fov of the rift s might be worse?

[lethal jay]

The hands are good when it's in front of you but behind you it's not, that's only because the quest cameras are only able to track in front of you

[open crescent]

there's a risk of the cheap cables not working so be careful

[fathom cargo]

the only thing better about the rift s's tracking over the q1 and q2 is when you place your hand high above your head

[static cape]

Do base stations track the controllers or just the pucks

[lethal jay]

Pucks only

[ruby burrow]

I helped a friend get an AV3 avatar setup in about 40 minutes.
It's not hard if it's what you learn first. Most of the confusion and impression of difficulty come from transferring from one to the other.

[fathom cargo]

many well reviewed cables that are advertised for quest use on amazon for cheap, so it's honestly not much of an issue

[hybrid pier]

Im honestly pretty chill with rift s tbh, I didn't wanna take any chances. For the only vr headset I've ever had I'd say it was a good investment to make

Unless you count gear vr as a headset

[open crescent]

I've read people here saying "I got a cheap cable and it didn't work..." so that's why I'm saying it

[static cape]

Also its hard to tell if the Quest 2 has any faults like the rift S because its only been out a couple months right

[golden scaffold]

With how long VR playtimes have gotten, I think there's enough info nowadays. Biggest complaint I've seen is the strap coming apart.

[hybrid pier]

Also my room is quite small so the cable length goes around my whole room

[fathom cargo]

biggest issue is defective lenses on some units, so you may have to return and get another

[void steeple]

It's not too hard to figure if your unit has defective lenses because the spots where it should have been glued down are still visible.

[fathom cargo]

the stock strap is shockingly comfortable if you adjust it well

[static cape]

Is rift S able to replace items like is there still a technical support system to call and get rift s items replaced

[fathom cargo]

don't count on it.

you would have much more luck with the quest 2 in that regard. oculus has the tendency to stop giving a shit about their previous gen headsets as they discontinue then lol

[void steeple]

rift S was discontinued so they may soon lack parts to give you as replacements, though legally they have to replace things until your warranty runs out.

[static cape]

True

[open crescent]

ri(p)ft

[brisk thunder]

i need opinions,is the oculuc quest 2 good for vrchat

[noble depot]

Linked I'd say yes, standalone depends on how you feel about it's limitations
It's a v good headset for it's price range though!

[hybrid pier]

Standalone you'd be missing out on a lot of the game tbh

Id definitely suggest tethered or grab a rift s if it's still available

[brisk thunder]

like im making a switch to vr and im getting opinions 0n wich one i should get im liking the stand alone option bc i heard that the standalone can play job simulator and ive always wanted to play that game

[noble depot]

Standalone Quest won't be able to see PC-only avatars and worlds, meaning you'll be seeing some users as robots and some worlds won't show up. Cross-compatible avatars and worlds shouldn't be a problem though, with enough time lol

[fathom cargo]

again, as someone who's extensively used the rift s, I much prefer using the quest 2 for vrchat along with virtual desktop and link. I simply can't recommend the rift s with the sheer amount of issues it has.

[noble depot]

also keep in mind that if you do want to play it linked/with Virtual Desktop, your computer will need to be VR capable

[fathom cargo]

also support for it is essentially going to be inexistent

[brisk thunder]

no when i play vrchat ill be linking it to my pc

[noble depot]

In that case it's a pretty good headset from what I've heard! c:

don't personally own one but it's apparently quite comperable to/better than the Rift S for people

[brisk thunder]

ok,thanks guys👍 🙂

[ruby burrow]

My experience of buying VR, was taking several years to convince myself I wanted VR enough to spend £500 on a Vive. Took me a single year despite already owning one to decide I was happy to spend double that again to buy an Index and FBT. : P

[open crescent]

I started with the Vuzix Wrap VR1200, then moved to Oculus DK1, then Oculus DK2... then I was hesitant

[ruby burrow]

One of the nice things about the Quest, is that it give you that entrance for a great price, and then if you do upgrade later, you've not actually spent that much and it's not obsolete either. Can still have a place for standalone or wireless.

[open crescent]

but all it took was Half Life: Alyx and I immediately bough an index

[ruby burrow]

The Vuzix what? I need to google that right away. xD

[open crescent]

it is, by today's standards, awful, but back in the day it was the only affordable hmd

and it was still very cool

[ruby burrow]

Interesting. Had never heard of it.

[void steeple]

I was originally waiting for the Pimax 8KX to come to market, realized I was probably making a grave mistake when I saw all the cracked casings and no controllers, and ordered an Index. You could say I was confident that VR was gonna be rad. Now I'm waiting on the tundra trackers.

[keen niche]

ok

[lime hare]

hey, i'm gaving difficulties favoriting an avatar a friend let me clone. additionally, i had some "Avatar not available" stuff in my menu, two avatars (baby yoda and bongocat). i unfavorited them, but now they're stuck in my menu as favorited and cant be unfavorited again. additionally, their names seem to be back. anyone know what's going on?

i have tried relaunching the game, and this doesn't fix the issue of the favorite button not working.

[keen niche]

smash your head into the wall and try again

[open crescent]

LMAO

[golden scaffold]

It's a good idea to go through this: https://help.vrchat.com/kb/article/17-i-crashedcant-launch-vrchatother-issues/

If issues continue around this, definitely send in a ticket so we can properly check out logs.

[long ether]

Wow, wonderful idea

LMAO

[keen niche]

whats funny

[long ether]

https://tenor.com/view/im-just-gonna-head-out-i-have-to-go-gotta-go-im-leaving-michael-che-gif-15835977

[modest geyser]

hiii

[keen niche]

hi

[winter wren]

Also keeping an eye on tundra but I love my quest 2. Wifi 6 + virtual desktop and no wires is just... So nice.

[robust thunder]

True true

[bold sonnet]

hi

[robust thunder]

Wireless is definitely a way better experience than tethered

[vocal shard]

How do you hook up a pc link with Oculus?

[robust thunder]

Download the oculus app, plug in your link cable or use virtual desktop, and follow the instructions

[vocal shard]

ok thx

[midnight compass]

is anyone else having a problem where they get DCed after every 5 min?

[void steeple]

I have my wires velcroed over the top of my headset to a ceiling cable system so I barely ever notice I'm wired at all. I even have some long cables for charging my controllers up there.

[winter wren]

The charging is cool but being an apartment dweller with high ceilings would stop that idea cold for me

[flint heart]

Hi

[long ether]

Hi

[void steeple]

Kiwi cables let you drop them pretty low, you might be surprised. You also don't need to drill into the ceiling since they come with command strip-like hooks too.

[winter wren]

I mean I can't get there from here lol

They're ridiculous and I hate them

[keen cloud]

virizon wireless 4g lte hotspot hooked to oculus quest 2, private world, 2 to 4 people in it, what do you all think the performance will be like if you had to guess? Im guessing playable but public, filled up worlds, it will chug hard!

[lethal jay]

Depends on the specs of the quest 2 (I don't know what they are) and the speed of the hotspot

But if it's only 2 to 4 people the performance should be flawless, only thing that will change will be download speed of the avatars/worlds

And I guess ping

[hasty harbor]

Yo who wants to make me a custom avatar. I will pay you absolutely nothing

[keen cloud]

ok that I can handle. Only want to be able to be in a world for 15,20 minutes with my girlfriend to talk while I wait for better internet. I do have high ping, I worry about that...

[lethal jay]

High ping might be an issue, lagginess and a lot of voice and movement cutting out

[keen cloud]

oh wait, that might be for the crappy internet I have currently (its why Im using my hotspot lol) I dont know about that actually, I might be fine then...It can do Youtube (480p) and Netflix just fine...

[lethal jay]

If it's only 480p then yeah it should work but might not be the best experience you have ever had

[summer bridge]

I just merged my acc with vrchat

so do I have to play more?

Total I played in steam was 36 hours

[rancid jewel]

you get exp for ranking up and stuff faster when on a VRChat account

[summer bridge]

So does it come to the vrchat acc?

[open crescent]

?upload

[shy spoke]

You must obtain at least "New User" Trust Rank in our Trust and Safety system in order to upload content. You can get this by just spending a few hours in VRChat, hop some worlds, and make some friends. Give it some time and you'll be able to upload content in no time.

As an aside, you must have a VRChat account to upload content. That means you can't use a Steam account, Oculus account, or Viveport account to upload content like worlds or avatars.

Source: https://docs.vrchat.com/docs/frequently-asked-questions

[keen cloud]

oh hey WeeWDiedrich I am friended to you XD

[summer bridge]

?upload

[shy spoke]

You must obtain at least "New User" Trust Rank in our Trust and Safety system in order to upload content. You can get this by just spending a few hours in VRChat, hop some worlds, and make some friends. Give it some time and you'll be able to upload content in no time.

As an aside, you must have a VRChat account to upload content. That means you can't use a Steam account, Oculus account, or Viveport account to upload content like worlds or avatars.

Source: https://docs.vrchat.com/docs/frequently-asked-questions

[rancid jewel]

yes

[rancid jewel]

oh hey dude what's up

[summer bridge]

i can now upload yay

[rancid jewel]

nice

[keen cloud]

not much, in a bad place at the moment internet wise, going to be away from my group for about 6 to 8 weeks. Real bummer 😦 going to try my phone hotspot with it, though I am not holding my breath

[rancid jewel]

I'm just kinda chilling in bed

[summer bridge]

Where is avatar descriptor?

[rancid jewel]

there should be a thing on the right side of your screen when you click your avatar that says "add component"

click that and search for "VRC_AvatarDescriptor" or whatever it's called @summer bridge

then insert it

[summer bridge]

Thanks

Found it so thanks!
Time to upload gipsy Avenger baby!

[rancid jewel]

nice

Oh yeah make sure the descriptor is positioned to be at the eyes of the model

[summer bridge]

Alrighty

Where's the descriptor?

[rancid jewel]

its a transparent tiny grey sphere

[summer bridge]

K

[woeful spoke]

Is anyone having issues with the menu or VRChat sound in general giving off static?

[summer bridge]

Nope

[woeful spoke]

Tried 2 separate headsets and both have the same popping in the menu and sound for me.

[rancid jewel]

I haven't ran into that problem either

[vocal shard]

Only time I had that was a bad cable but two different headsets idk then

The port on the pc?

[lament epoch]

Off of personal experience, it took me 5 minutes to download one whole avatar in a world. Luckily, the world was saved in my cache, so I didn't have to load that too. I had 3-4 Bars LTE (Out of 4 bars/iOS) at the time. Also I was in a basement, so that might make a difference.

[open crescent]

that sounds like a terrible experience honestly

but better than nothing maybe? however if you have limited data it's gonna run out reallllllly fast

[lethal jay]

The amount of bars you have won't matter though tbf, only the speeds do

[open crescent]

so watch out

[lethal jay]

I do the same thing too since I live out where cable is not available, I also have unlimited data though

[keen cloud]

same

[lament epoch]

If you're trying to be expressive (like dance), then yes, it is, but if you're just there to talk to people, you'll be fine.

[keen cloud]

thats good to know

[lament epoch]

You could use Glasswire to measure the data and/or restrict it, but that wouldn't be too optimal.

[lethal jay]

Honestly, coming from someone who has full body and has seen the movement live via someone elses live stream, it's actually fine for dancing too

[open crescent]

[lethal jay]

At least for me it is

[lament epoch]

Wasn't able to try it in VR, internet came back too fast :/

I was on Desktop the whole time, but everyone's movement would cut in and out, even though their voices were fine.

And I was in a basement too, so the walls could've totally interfered.

[lethal jay]

That's due to packet loss, if you have a strong connection to the tower it should be fine

[charred lagoon]

Where do I find the anime skins where you can do there moves from the show

[lament epoch]

It was strong on it's measurement (like a perfect 4 bars most of the time), but clearly, me being in the basement is what would've caused this.

[charred lagoon]

I search up the map surreals anime world or skins and it dosent work

[lethal jay]

Yeah but how many bars you have is not accurate, I sometimes only have 1 bar and still have a solid connection

[gray rune]

Anyone else having issues connecting to VRChat?

[lament epoch]

Right, I just mean it wasn't accounting for the packet loss, so I didn't think too much of it.

[lethal jay]

Not how it started btw

lol

[summer bridge]

Great I can't find a transparent grey descriptor block
help

[gray rune]

What's weird is that it's not just the VRChat game. I also have issues uploading worlds now. It isn't my internet connection because everything else works perfectly for me.

[plucky stump]

Hmm

[summer bridge]

for the eyes

[lethal jay]

Oh looking for the view point? It's a small white dot that you adjust on the avatar descriptor, good luck finding it because it's a nightmare to find

[summer bridge]

Oh crap where is it?

[plucky stump]

Not accessible for me probably, cause I'm not using VR to play the game.

[summer bridge]

K found it

[gray rune]

I've tried restarting the PC, and I still have issues connecting.

[edgy sierra]

have you downloaded the new SDKs from vrchat website..

[ruby burrow]

AV3 makes the descriptors viewpoint ball a breeze compared to the old one, since it highlights it with big coloured arrows, the same as when moving any other object in unity. Can just click and drag it into place rather than squinting to find it then edit numerical values.

[shut timber]

hello whats the best vr headset for vrchat ?

i am looking for something with good controllers, headset and trackers

[vocal shard]

Hm, What's your budget?

[shut timber]

let's say 1200 euro

[broken plover]

Valve index would fit perfectly into your budget. If you want Index with full body tracking, you'll need to up your budget a bit because the index costs around 1000€ and for full body tracking you need 3 trackers which cost around 120€ each

[vocal shard]

Also, You need a good pc, Same goes with other headsets

[shut timber]

i heard index controllers had some kind of problem in vr chat

[jovial kestrel]

The index also comes with Valve's own customer support. It still sucks if you have defective pieces, but they're really good to communicate with and work with for customer support.

Which alone is worth quite a bit to me.

And no, the controllers have no problem with VRC itself. It's more like some controllers are prone to a slight stick drift or misalignment over time.

[shut timber]

ok thanks a lot

[summer bridge]

Why can't I upload because whenever I try to upload the customize the name GUI is not coming
And I have perms to upload

[jovial kestrel]

Is the scene paused?

[summer bridge]

Yeah

[jovial kestrel]

Unpause it.

And make sure you're on the "Game" view tab, instead of "Scene".

[summer bridge]

Where is that?

foound it

How to unpause the scene :/

[jovial kestrel]

There are three buttons in the top center.

[summer bridge]

Also

where is emotes in Unity?

[jovial kestrel]

Emotes?

[summer bridge]

Emotes ... Like dance and wave

[jovial kestrel]

That's a whole other set of things to deal with. There are plenty of well made tutorials and guides which can help you do those things with pictures and video. You may also find help in either the #avatars-2-general or #avatar-general channels. Though they may be slower at this time of day.

[summer bridge]

ok

Didnt come

lemme restart

[velvet ledge]

I don't know if this is the right channel to put this but it is the only one that seemed reverent. I have recently built a new computer with a Nvidia RTX 3080 FE and most VR game it run beautifully with my index but in VRC I have massive tracking issues where my head set tracking flies off the hinges to the point I literally hurled (which I have never done ever). I have used the exact same set up with my laptop that has a 1070 and have have zero tracking issues. don't get me wrong, I love this game but I feel that as more and more people get their hands on new gen hardware I wanted to tell my experience in order to better the game as a whole. If I get warned for this so be it but I wanted my experience out there to help the development of the game.

[lethal jay]

Am I just dumb or does that not make sense, I reread it 3 times and I can't tell what the point is they are trying to make

[vocal shard]

They have a tracking issue, I suppose?

And they are most likely seeking assistance

I’ve been having problems with my left index controller but that’s hardware related myself if I’m not mistaken

[velvet ledge]

tracking work perfectly on other VR games but in VRC it whips around like a wild bull

[rapid laurel]

You guys should seriously consider asking the creators of clients why they feel the need to add (In this case im particularly talking about quality of life) features to your game. They could actually assist you in finding out what your users are actually looking for in features to add. Take a look at how valve hired people who modded their games. These are people who could be seriously beneficial to talk to and or work with. I'm not endorsing clients but there are features I see that are appealing to a majority of users that are not even being considered currently for implementation in the game. I would list some but it would just turn into more of a rant than this already is.

[ruby burrow]

Note to self! Do not shut down Steam if the copy of blender you're currently using is installed via it. :v

Good thing Blender auto saves to some degree.

[cunning elm]

How are you girls tonight?

[neon oracle]

You are very right but you are asking for suicide asking for logic from the vrchat general channel. While I think the team understand and have some point to why people do it many toxic users who think they are better than others on the game just because they remain chaste from a client and want genocide of client users is a common theme it seems here. I think mods are sometimes required for a game to actually progress and for a greater community to be built around it. Face it, vrchat would not be where it is today without clients and their users and they may be actually participating more and helping the game progress more than non client users. Think of beat Saber for example, they may not openly support it but they will not take away those implementations either and remove those users from the base. They will eventually add it natively in the game and those who want those cool features beforehand can download the possibly buggy mods at their own risk.. It creates progress to where a company could just take people's money and say okay yep, we are done now this is the game, deal with it. And let's face it again, the canny is an ineffective garbage dumb. Not enough users are actually active on it as the majority do not care as vrc is also hot garbage and too many people are biased to create effective communication a lot of the time and I hardly see anything getting done from it. Stop using the canny as a sole excuse to how features could get implemented as its highly ineffective and needs some better way.
Just had to spill all these thoughts though. Been thinking about taking my biases away though (which is hard) and write an in depth article about modified clients and the greater reason so people can finally understand and actually look at both sides but idk. Prob gonna get backlash either way lel

[cunning elm]

Idk dude. Mods start to power trip after awhile

[uneven inlet]

NGL, I thought that was a copypasta given the wall of text.

[cunning elm]

Lol yeah I was worried

[neon oracle]

Bro this has plagued my sleep, its 3am

[cunning elm]

1:18am here

[vocal shard]

Oh my time!

The 1:18 that is lol

[gray rune]

Can someone please help me out with my issue with being unable to connect to VRC?

[neon oracle]

That doesn't sound like an issue, that sounds normal! Anyway tho #user-support-old

[idle violet]

Tupper is talking so much bs it's not even funny

[neon oracle]

Partly, the whole thing I find with trying to scare away users from clients is dumb. No one is actually going to keylog you or steal your bank details. Unless you are really dumb and download some very sketchy client then you are most likely fine. The benefit is greater than the risk to most people and there is a VERY big and very active community around these things to make sure the creators stay in line and the code looks good.
It is definitely a possibility like downloading anything off of the internet but highly unlikely and him using that as a scare tactic for the unknownledged is dum

[idle violet]

I agreeeee

[neon oracle]

That's like saying not to download discord in 2016 and to download Skype instead cause you do not know of the company, could be an underlying scam oooo scary like wut

[idle violet]

Thing is if they would finally do something for their security AND give the community stuff they want then there wouldn't be so much mods around. VRChat was MADE by the community... everything in it. All VRChat has done is break shit or make users unhappy.

[idle violet]

I agree it's just ridicules and it makes me upset too

[neon oracle]

I have spoken to many of the mod developers and they have future plans and future goals of being real developers and these mods and getting paid is just a start for them and a goal. Shunning these people away calling them sketchy and bad sucks

[idle violet]

To me personally it makes me sad. They complain and whine about Mods and NOW after 7 Years they wanna be REAL developers and finally do something right? After they get payed AGAIN by the community?

[lost agate]

holy god, i went to bed, had a full sleep, and the conversation is still going on

[idle violet]

Lol

Without the Community VRChat would be NOTHING quite literally.

[neon oracle]

True but i do see the other side that stuff does take time. But after 4 years being in early access it's like, how much time really? Many are simple things thay could be active and I think if the majority of these things were added then clients would be obsolete. Despite the thoughts of clients just adding more features to keep their user base there is only so much that can be added before the features are dumb and useless. There is a main trend among the big ones, protection and mainly small things like full body tracking cache for example

Like they have made the game look better, changed the loading screens, nameplates twice but thats not actually useful. Should spend more time on stuff people actually want

[idle violet]

I appriciate that they finally get their shit together and do or try at least to make shit right but it's still upsetting to literally ban and punish people to make their game experience better.

One thing I finally want is interaction with dynamic bones from other users

[lost agate]

im gonna say it again: use of clients is against ToS. And for good reason. If anyone was able to make a client and get it trough some verification system for every update tot he code they do, it would take allot more time away from actual work on the game. And no, a dedicated team is not a solution as any change to the vanilla code would then in turn bring more updates tot he mods and the mods would take time from development and developemnt takes time from the mods and so forth

[lost agate]

This is a feature refused by Ron to prevent lewd stuff in vrc to keep the game marketable afaik. However take it with a grain of salt. I personally do not know where this information is from, but i heared it from multiple people

[idle violet]

YOU WHAT?!

[uneven inlet]

I see the spongebob fish in that exclimation. xD

[idle violet]

Dude imagine if that would be the reason then I lose hope

[neon oracle]

Well mods should not be needed at all so no team needed. VRC just needs to actually just take their communities concerns to heart more and do what people actually want, and again, the canny is useless, don't use it as an excuse. And just repeatedly saying that mods are against ToS shows that you are not understanding the whole conversation and thoughts being discussed like in my larger post above. We all already understand that they are against TOS lol

[idle violet]

You cannot prevent lewd stuff that just doesn't work he would need to delete like 90% of female avatars

[jovial kestrel]

From my understanding, VRC wishes to move away from Dynbone as is, it would be wasted resources. That's a more straight forward reason.

[shy nest]

can I get a name change in discord?

[jovial kestrel]

You can freely change your own name.

[neon oracle]

The game is already hardly marketable at its current state with lewding. Allowing people to touch someone else's hair wouldn't change that I'd assume

[lost agate]

I do agree we have to move to something better eyah, but development has been put on a low burner for a solid 3 years now. This is not an excuse at this point. As no ones gonna tell me 3 years isnt enough to supply a feature that would eliminate the need for a modded client.

[flint heart]

Hi

I got my my mom's friends vr headset

[uneven inlet]

Which was why i mentioned the talk to the client makers, but that was shot down for resource and time issues.

[flint heart]

Can somebody teach me how to play

[jovial kestrel]

The reason it seems like development is slower is because there have only been a handful (if that) of large releases in the past while. There are some big things still on the way, for example the UI and all the nice little things that with that comes.

[neon oracle]

Yea I think tupper or someone was talking about that before. I hope something better can get implemented but at least it's being discussed

[lost agate]

i dont support the idea for user made client mods to be verified what so ever

[flint heart]

:(

SOMEBODY

[vocal shard]

you can read the wiki?

[jovial kestrel]

Most of the issues that are presented to the team aren't just shoved aside. You'd probably be quite surprised by the amount of things that has actually circulated around the backend.

[vocal shard]

Documentation rather

[jovial kestrel]

They're quite aware, they're just a bit less transparent than people would like.

[lost agate]

Atiash, its been 3 years since the request for interactable dyn bons was made. This is an excuse. The clients are there to fill that gap, thats how it started, and thats how it continued. And frankly, thats why VRC is in the state its in. And tbh thats not ok.

[neon oracle]

And that is what I've been saying, unless you are friends with the team you are in the dark and no one knows what is to come. All we see is wow after a year we got new nameplates and vrc+, apart from UDON which sure, that's big but took too long.

[jovial kestrel]

In comparison to engine optimizations, Udon, Av3 and keeping the servers afloat, where would you put intractable dyn bones on that priority stack?

Probably dead last.

[neon oracle]

There should be more transparency with the community with what is actually going on rather than just update by update seeing what is to come randomly and being disappointed

[lost agate]

So essentially putting user request and the main cause of client useage dead last? Thats silly, stop doing that

[jovial kestrel]

I agree. They used to produce these video "Developer Updates" back a while ago, and those were basically the only time we had real insight.

[lost agate]

and udon has not been an idea for 3 years has it?

[jovial kestrel]

Do you want the car to drive, or look cool.

[neon oracle]

Considering UDON was announced years ago you'd think it would be fine by now

[jovial kestrel]

It's not easy to build an entire system from scratch, with the right combination of freedom AND control to fit like a glove onto this platform.

[neon oracle]

I think people would rather it look cool at this point

[lost agate]

i want a safe community. If you are dealing with a anargy, you try to cut off the roots, thats how you resolve those things

[jovial kestrel]

They obviously care about safety, that's part of why the whole #announcements was even made.

You simply can't take all safety steps publicly, because announcing how you're going to protect against cheaters is literally telling your opponent how you're defending yourself.

[lost agate]

Ah yes, lets tell the anargist its illigal to riot yes?

[neon oracle]

If it takes 3 years for my bought car to drive when I could at least have a cool decent working but possibly faulty car that is slowly getting kinked out to perfection. At least I had a working car for the time being. VRC should stop worrying about perfection as much. They released UDON in a super disarray state, why not just give users features and work it from there

[jovial kestrel]

The thing about this is, the community is insanely divided on this topic. No update can please everyone, because some want fixes and some want new features. The developers have a vision for the game and the drive to execute it in the way they think is best.

[open storm]

friends list not appearing at all even after restarts

[jovial kestrel]

If the game worked seamlessly on every machine, then it would be a no brainer on what to do. But unfortunately bugs linger and interrupt many individuals.

[lost agate]

The fact that VRC fails to deliver a simple feature thats been requested for so long, with lame excuses for answers like preformence, then covers it by things unrelated, and proceeds to focus on things that have nothing to do with the so called lowering of mod useage. Thats not something i payed 100 bucks for to support

[neon oracle]

Then they should make ends meet on both, they have users paying monthly for them now, hire a bigger team, hire some of the mod devs even, some are very smart people but VRC wishes to stay as it is at snails pace. Lovense literally hired modders to find bugs/security holes in their systems and paid them well for it. Like step it up

[jovial kestrel]

In a % of the total playerbase, how many people are requesting this performance destroying "simple feature" over other things that also take the same developers working the same time?

[jovial kestrel]

I for one think hiring the people who know how to exploit your systems is not a bad strategy. Someone a bit ago mentioned the valve incident where they did the same thing, and I think that's one of the best moves valve could have made to combat them.

[lost agate]

The community wants dynamic bones, its shown in clients, its shown on the canny but merged with old posts, and its shown here. To ignore that is willfull ignorance. To say its not requested is blatently bias towards a blind perspective that has nothing to do with a community.

[uneven inlet]

The amount that is using clients for said feature

[jovial kestrel]

No one is saying that it isn't known that the community wants it, but saying "the community" is an insanely broad term for an app that pretty regularly breaks 30k concurrent users.

I could grab 20 people and call that "the community"

[lost agate]

well if you dont believe me, why not announce a poll on users wanting it? Have you guys ever considered such a thing?

[hybrid rapids]

difference is aswell, vrchat is losing a lot of players that are willing to use clients to put these features in. these players are not malicious and only wish to add to the community, yet they get punished for it. is trying to keep these players, especially these modders, that potentially have a lot of value and creativity to add to the community really not worth being a higher priority?

[neon oracle]

Exactly, while I do not think vrc is thay hard to exploit in the first place the general idea is there. There are so many smart people out there that could make big change and add so much to the game but the VRC team wishes to stay so closed off and will not open their doors. It is a bad tactic that is fueled by their lucky boom of popularity due to the surge in 2018 and such.

[jovial kestrel]

VRC has investors to pay back and rising costs to upkeep, so I'm unsure how soon in the future a large team expansion is really in sight.

[neon oracle]

Tbh I am sure there is a community of people who would even do it for free just to see the game become better and thrive, as many do enjoy the game and call it home like myself.

[jovial kestrel]

I'm unsure whether or not a poll for something like this has ever been considered. And don't worry, I'm not saying I don't believe you. I know a decent bit of my own friends who want a feature like that. What I'm saying is when you weigh the total number of people who want that feature first vs others who want fixes or other features first, it may be found lacking in size.

[lost agate]

And you are pulling this information from who?

[neon oracle]

So I don't think it's an entire excuse considering they could peek open their doors a bit and just allow the community to create and help. That's exactly what a place like github is all about

[uneven inlet]

The people have been split and hypocritical on the matter. We want new features, but we want fixes for existing features.

[jovial kestrel]

The same place you're pulling your information from.

[lost agate]

Because as far as my friends groups go i know not a single person (except for my friends that are like you, discord mods, mods, and a dev) that would not want the enxt feature to be intractable dynamic bones over any other suggested features.

[tropic cedar]

is there a public wall where the community can speak up about which bug fixes/features they would prefer the most/first?

[lost agate]

Read again thats not what i said

[neon oracle]

The canny but as mentioned above. It is highly ineffective

[tropic cedar]

oh it exists?

[jovial kestrel]

I'm not a developer, I don't have access to the sort of information that could be used to pull accurate numbers. I'm more just giving the take I have acquired from a large sample size. We most likely come from very different groups within the VRC community, so it makes sense that the priorities would not line up. I'm giving my view of why it's not a feature yet based on those sorts of observations, and experience in a dev scenario looking over the same sorts of decisions.

[lost agate]

Also not to mention this yet again ignores the fact that cleints are a thing cuz of it. Ive been there since those started popping up. Ive been reporting them and ive been asking why they are doing it. It since the beginning ALWAYS has been like that

[jovial kestrel]

Allbeit on a comparitively microscopic scale.

[neon oracle]

Yea but there is not enough ability and no one can really say which they prefer the most. Its like a reddit upvoting system imagine but you only have 1000 users on your subreddit and not all active. It makes it very difficult for anything to get done and there are a lot of good ideas that get scrubbed over

[tropic cedar]

there are ways to make it effective

[neon oracle]

That is correct but the vrc team does not wish to make it. They are just focused on what they believe is better to be implemented which is security which I understand but even that takes them months when clients have fixed security holes quickly. If they actually built up a community that respected them and would participate in such things as a canny then it would be effective but currently vrc is highly divided

[umbral reef]

Keep in mind on the clients fixing things fast, its always always a botch fix that breaks other things, hit performance or wont stay working in future updates...

Also kekw, clients have always been bannable, youi did always get banned for them. This is just another day with the same shit only people realized old information again

[jovial kestrel]

More like it's now a hot topic, so the community is voicing their opinions once more.

[neon oracle]

Very true but the concept is still there, vrc is at a snails pace when it shouldn't be. If a client can put a bandaid on it in minutes, vrc should at least make something effective in days time and heal the wound. But they just keep it open slowly one string at a time close it when it should not take that long

[umbral reef]

Thats not how you develop no

[lost agate]

gosh that user that was promoting the use of a client was a genius geez..

[umbral reef]

The reason we are in this mess is because the devs did that in the past
Quickly patching and then 'properly' fixing actually slows most development cycles to a extreme grind

[lost agate]

was typing a text on how he based it off of nothing, and the clyde bot told me i cant deliver the text as hes gone xD

[jovial kestrel]

If the entirety of VRC was developed in this way that clients are, every update would be more catastrophic than when Av3 dropped.

[idle violet]

Imagine banning someone for outting their opinion good job! A medal for you.

[lost agate]

no, banning for violation of ToS. Dont twist words to start a riot nut

[jovial kestrel]

The man legitimately advocated for clients, admitted to having one and put "go ahead ban me" in his speech.

[lost agate]

exacly

[jovial kestrel]

ToS isn't a guideline. It's a set of rules.

Or agreements, rather.

[umbral reef]

Some people in this community :'o i love it

[lost agate]

ikr

[idle violet]

Well I know a ton of people that are in here and have a client soooo idk

[lost agate]

i know a ton of people from the TV that murder people soooooo idk

[umbral reef]

Those people dont go around bragging, advocating, name dropping and asking for a ban while doing so 🙃

[hybrid rapids]

whats with the demonization of client users from other users though? like sure it's against the terms of service and it's justified for mods to then deal with it accordingly, but what's with the hostility from other users about it? all most client users are doing is trying to improve their own experience and it has next to no effect on you

[unreal verge]

If you're using mods it's definitely not a good idea to announce that you use them in an official game server lol

[vocal shard]

Atiash I feel for you having to repeat yourself so many times. When in the end rules are rules.

[idle violet]

thank you

[lost agate]

ToS = ToS

[neon oracle]

At least a temporary fix is better than leaving the hole wide open. Offer users something while working to fix the problem completely as well. Just leaving the wound open does no one good. I also agree with Akuma slightly. VRC shouldn't directly allow mods as discussed, I do not support that but to at least allow its community in and to help develop the game even or a better way to share thoughts, ideas, code, whatever, and not shunning away the community as some demon spawn who don't deserve to play the game. That is not advocating against the banning of client users either, its a violation against TOS but to at least accept them and find a way to change the ways of those who feel the need to use clients and removing the need

[hybrid rapids]

i'm not arguing against banning people as ToS is ToS, i'm just asking why other users are being so hostile about it?

[umbral reef]

Most users are proper grade A cunt about it when they get any flack for it, so that doesnt help 🤷‍♀️

And because most flat out dont realize what bad things can happen to themself and then blame it on the devs.
Client users complaining the game is unstable, while its purely because of there client are in here daily

[jovial kestrel]

Even if some use clients simply for self defense, there are those who use it to hurt. The hostility probably comes from those who have been negatively affected by them, and it's easy to bandwagon those feelings towards all client users.

[idle violet]

This is it.

[umbral reef]

If you do send a proper fix to the official channels they wont ignore it
I know about extremely bad things being reported everywhere but the official channels, the second they send in a ticket the team solved it within 2 updates...

[idle violet]

Isn't that racism in a way?

[lost agate]

Ah like that. Well as even though its against ToS, there has been a lack of listening to what the actual community wants. Looking at clients, they offer features that VRC failed to implement. The reason people use those clients is those features. Some are outgaious but some have a point. I do not condone client useage what so ever, i do think however VRC should prevent client useage by providing said features themselves win the vanilla client.

[umbral reef]

a client user aint a race 👀

[idle violet]

dude I said IN A WAY

[jovial kestrel]

Perhaps in process, but not in weight or meaning.

Like stereotyping all client users.

[idle violet]

Thing is IF VRChat would listen more to the community and add stuff that clients do there would be no need for em. Of course don't add the forceclone shit etc.

[lost agate]

the correct term for such a thing is discrimination. racism is when i cal my dog an idiot

[cold quiver]

At the end of the day, the terms of service has been well established for years. Client modifications is against said terms of service. just because they could possibly be beneficial doesn't change this fact, and most certainly does not give you the moral high ground.

[lost agate]

wow that was a typo and a half

[jovial kestrel]

VRC added things like individual volume sliders due to community demand. They are listening, it's just development time isn't that easy to delegate.

[unreal verge]

Not all mod users are bad that's for sure. I've lots of friends who use mods but i also know people outside of my friend list that are so fucking annoying because of there literally thousands of malicious mods.

[idle violet]

You telling me it takes them let's say about 3-4 YEARS to add things what the community wants but add shit no one asked for?

[jovial kestrel]

I wouldn't say "no one" asked for the new features.

[idle violet]

Also the code has been around for like 2 years. They stole it and claimed it as their own.

[jovial kestrel]

What you're doing now is assuming that the thing you want outweighs what other people want.

[umbral reef]

Also lets be real, the 'safety mods' are almost always just using tools Vrchat provides but has not native-ly added within the game yet

[idle violet]

I didn't say that no.

[umbral reef]

So using a client for those things is just silly, do that stuff yourself and dont risk losing your account

[lost agate]

allright, none of the non veteran users asked for. How does that sound 😮

[neon oracle]

That's just human nature id say though. I think of it pretty black and white. There are bad people, there are good people. The bad should be banned for using a client to maliciously interupt and hurt someone's experience but those who just use them for protection and simple features vrc should already have hurts the views of many on the game. It is against the ToS yes, but you are hurting reputation for something that can be solved a better way and making masses upset by doing so.

[jovial kestrel]

If a tree falls in the forest, does it make a sound?
If you haven't heard someone ask for a feature yourself, has no one asked for it at all?

[idle violet]

Oh how do you know who is a Veteran user and who isn't? x3 You'd need a client for that c:

[umbral reef]

And the grey part comes where that isnt doable without leaving an insane amount of bad people go free as it currently goes.
The devs cant see the difference between a good client user or a bad client user unless they are using there tools in public (what most tools dont even work like that).

[jovial kestrel]

You don't need a client to view the API.

[lost agate]

hush your mouth, ive been here before that rank was even a thing

[idle violet]

Ohhh now the Furry get's defensiiive x3

[unreal verge]

You don't need a client to see who is veteran

[lost agate]

Besides if you'd been there you would know it was a thing in the public beta back then

[idle violet]

We talk about now tho not years ago c:

[spice minnow]

What do furries have anything to do with the convo lol

[lost agate]

allright, and this is why discord block is a usefull thing, away you go 😮

[idle violet]

Byeeee

[ruby tiger]

whack

[unreal verge]

The API tells you who is veteran and who not

[neon oracle]

Correct that's why I say leave it up to the offense. If you get banned cause you have a client and are in a public and say "woah I can touch your dynamic bones that's soo cool" vs getting banned because you are crashing lobbies and flying around maliciously and whatnot. I think there is a difference. Leave it up to the offense and realize people can change.

[unreal verge]

No mods in the game needed for that

[idle violet]

You'd still need to go into the code for that and it's non available for normal users

[cold quiver]

no, you don't 🤦‍♂️

[jovial kestrel]

...

[umbral reef]

And that doesnt work as thats what we already do.
But because people go into a proper mental breakdown over anything in this community it will stay like that

[unreal verge]

It is available, these API endpoints are public

[lost agate]

nyway back on topic. The feature has been requested for 3 years. the canny posts ahve been merged without their counts being added effectively lowering the viability and publicity/popularity of the post. Have you been aware of this? If so, can you explain why thats been done?

[idle violet]

yesss

[umbral reef]

They know, its on there list and again, they already know about it?

[jovial kestrel]

Merging the posts is probably done to prevent the topic from appearing multiple times and to compile all of the replies/upvotes or whatever into one place. The lowered visibility of the post is just an unfortunate side effect of it.

[ruby tiger]

Report the merge bug

[lost agate]

Then also explain why the day that i made a comment about it and got flamed for it, the day after a post with a miserable 76 upvotes got planned for implementation? (the dynamic bones post had 360+ at the time)

[jovial kestrel]

I unfortunately cannot explain everything, as I lack insight into the roadmap to do so.

[neon oracle]

Very true, happened to me amany. But as long as that is the way then people who are going to whine can whine, whatever. As long as its the people who accept that they have done something with malcious attempt. Not just had one or didn't even use it. It's clearly not the case thought and vrc will ban someone for any client related incident no matter what.

[jovial kestrel]

If I had to wager a guess, I'd say because the feature that got planned was either already indev in some way, or was related to the current development area.

[lost agate]

Then why can you explain just fine that your idea of why they dont implement it is the said reason for it not being implemented?

[unreal verge]

You can do fairly much stuff with the API with some programs outside of VRChat that are in a grey-area. I mean with that that these programs aren't against ToS but also not explicitly allowed either. You'll only get in trouble with them if you spam the API.

[tropic cedar]

the problem with that is if someone really wants a feature, they could make a new post to force someone or the system to merge the topics together, which could become abusable if you look in the future

[umbral reef]

People dont accept that they can get punished for using any client and bragging about it though
Like i should really start a photo collecting of the people that get in here complaining about it as there are enough each week.

[tropic cedar]

older topics shouldnt be grandfathered into new ones

[jovial kestrel]

Alright dude, you can't just make a new discord account and put the same name on it and walk back in here.

[ruby tiger]

lmao

[idle violet]

lol

[neon oracle]

Yea, was boutta say xx

[umbral reef]

Doesnt impact the devs though, you really think they re-list each thing they want to add in the game one day on the same list and got like 30x 'proper dynamic bones that dont bog the whole system down and allow for world dynamic bones'

[unreal verge]

Nah I've an app on my phone and a program installed on my pc that basically work like managing tools for friends. This program can do a lot of stuff which is really useful but isn't against ToS and there is no way to get banned currently by using these said programs.

[jovial kestrel]

Because I more accurately understand that idea from both observation and experience standpoints. I did not state it as fact, what I said was "I'm giving my view of why it's not a feature yet based on those sorts of observations, and experience in a dev scenario looking over the same sorts of decisions."

[neon oracle]

Vrc tracker? I've decided to take these things away as its too tempting to look who's on and wasting time at many points of the day

[misty crypt]

does anyone have any wierd/interesting worlds? thinking like particle hell, the edge, spycht boat

[neon oracle]

That's funny lol. People who try to act big prob deserve it. I am just tryna understand and see from both points here and give my opinions on such

[umbral reef]

Like i really dont care that most people use mods and its one of the things i cba to report anyone for.
Even if its a bit more of the bad ones i cba to

But its a joke to complain if you get punished for it and its just sad when the client bricks something that works fine in the normal game.

[vocal shard]

When they made a did a post about clients are they talking about when people use clients that close people app?

[unreal verge]

Yes but i also use the far more advanced version of it on the pc. There i can literally even search for avatar creators, see all their public avatars and the ability to favorite them. It's just one of the many things that are possible through the API. And it of course shows the hidden trust ranks.

[vocal shard]

Like if I was to report someone using it on video who would I report it to?

[umbral reef]

Thats often not a client but just a crash avatar but those are also not allowed
And yoy report it to #moderation-reports

[jovial kestrel]

#moderation-reports Instructions are in here.

[unreal verge]

What means cba?

[jovial kestrel]

Can't be asked.

[neon oracle]

@jovial kestrel since you are active currently and I don't expect you to know this. But how does blocking work? Since it seemed that a little over a year ago everything got reset. I used to hop on the bandwagon and was a very toxic 2018 player so I had over like 300 or so blocks to my name then poof went down to like 30 or so and I try to keep it there now lol. That random drop confused me though

[umbral reef]

More cnat be arsed

[unreal verge]

If you get caught with mods ingame then you probably used them malicious, like flying around or attacking someone. So deserved.

[idle violet]

What if you use a mod only to interact with bones? that aint malicious

[vocal shard]

Ohh no I literally have seen people not pull put a avatar straight up close your application through your steam or oculus vr.
Literally sends you back to your (VR-Homescreen)
When someone uses a crash avatar I still have to close the app myself to restart it.
Compared I have heard and seen myself used on me clients able to close my applications

[unreal verge]

Most the time you won't know who is using mods in your lobby currently unless they explicitly tell you.

[idle violet]

But then it's not malicious

[unreal verge]

Yes

[neon oracle]

Teleporting to a friend is apparently malicious as well. Or the team just hates me at this point with is understandable so ye. Would like to add that

[umbral reef]

It aint, but your still at risk of being clapped or your stuff getting yoinked

[idle violet]

It depends on what is done with it. If you crash people force clone private avatars etc that's malicious intend.

[umbral reef]

And your FPS will be happy if you dont use the interactive dbones

[idle violet]

Well with better security on VRChat's side this wouldn't be a thing.

[gray rune]

I guess I'm the only one that's been experiencing issues with connecting to VRChat.

[umbral reef]

No? Your literally installing a third party thing, nothing VRC can do would help against that

[jovial kestrel]

Basically, blocked user ID's won't have their audio or avatar or avatar components shown to the user that blocked them. That drop in blocks may have been due to a bug.

[vocal shard]

Does vrchat ? Have a thing recruiting community members? Like a form of moderation?

[jovial kestrel]

No.

[unreal verge]

Luckily there is no way, not even with mods, to force clone private avatars unless they're ripping them. But simple force clone doesn't work with private avatars.

[neon oracle]

How does a bug just remove 290 or so people thay have me blocked? I thought it was like a thing maybe that they reset it on inactive players or just after a number of years but its weird. Anyway I'm not complaining now as I'd rather have that number as low as possible.

[vocal shard]

Like I'm friends with devs on Rec room, and we have alot of the moderation team. On at alot of times during the day so traffic of toxic people is easy to take care of

[unreal verge]

I get blocked a lot simply because i use furry avatars lol

[jovial kestrel]

There was a bug a while ago that was randomly removing friends, and having blocks not work at all. So I'm guessing that the thing removing friends randomly also removed blocks in the same fashion.

[idle violet]

So about the reupload mod... You can download Avatars through the Avatar URL that VRChat provides to you if you know where to look.

[neon oracle]

Poor Johnny

[idle violet]

Sadly this is a thing

[neon oracle]

That's toxic users for ya

[unreal verge]

Yes I've access to said urls with the programs that just access the API. Could even rip my own avatars.

[cold quiver]

I believe they did a wipe on old blocks a while back, happened for everyone

[neon oracle]

Yea that's what I was assuming

[jovial kestrel]

I did not know about this, so that's good to know.

[idle violet]

So you technically have a client that acts malicious.

[gray rune]

It's just bothering me how VRChat is literally the only thing I'm having issues with connecting to. Websites, downloads and other games with online work perfectly. Only VRChat is not wanting to work.

[unreal verge]

But isn't against ToS

Since it's not a VRChat client modification

[jovial kestrel]

Accessing the API does not require a client...

[umbral reef]

Lets be real, you can rule lawyer all you want, its still against the ToS but unlawfull unintended API useage

[neon oracle]

I don't expect this to work but cloudflare DNS or VPN? That's what I've done when I have issues. Sometimes is just like that for a day than fine the next. Have contacted support about it but hasn't been consistent with me so havnt been able to recreate

[idle violet]

Well question. Why can we access the API in the first place?

[unreal verge]

But the tool i mentioned doesn't give you the files of avatars in a usable state. You still need other programs on top of that to read these files.

[jovial kestrel]

First, do you know what the API is?

[cold quiver]

🤦‍♂️

[idle violet]

Application Programming Interface

[gray rune]

I'm using a DNS. It's I think the free one.

[jovial kestrel]

Correct. That's the part that receives and responds to user interaction. So if we couldn't access it, we'd be kinda out of luck on using the app.

[neon oracle]

1.1.1.1?

[gray rune]

Yep

[unreal verge]

Already got told here that programs like this are a grey-area

[umbral reef]

And if you use it for bad intentions it still is though
Thats literally why the ToS use big vague words..

Like they aint gonna be able to catch you for it, but 🤷‍♀️
Saying its totally allowed and fine aint righto

[jovial kestrel]

A grey area is generally not one you talk about openly either.

[devout berry]

I think that they meant why API is not locked down under API keys and refusing user's requests outside of the game...

[jovial kestrel]

Oh.

[neon oracle]

Then I'd just try a VPN if you'd have one, if not you may be screwed for the night. I'd suggest contacting support describing the issue throughly and send an output log along with it. I didn't send that my first time so nothing really came of it, maybe you'll come up with something different?

[jovial kestrel]

As far as I'm aware, something something it would be easy to spoof anyway. I don't have an official answer for this though

[gray rune]

I guess I'll just try getting on tomorrow before I contact support. I've been trying to connect to VRChat for five hours trying everything I could think of to fix the problem.

[neon oracle]

Reset your modem/router entirely and everything?

Dunno why this helps but sometimes vrc just weird with IP 🤷‍♂️

[jovial kestrel]

This whole ripping discussion is extremely distasteful, and perhaps even against the rules.

[idle violet]

Nonetheless ripping etc is way too easy and I hate it.

[cold quiver]

pretty sure this is crossing the line

[idle violet]

I apologize.

[neon oracle]

Advocate! Ripping = bad 😡

[unreal verge]

I want to clarify that i don't rip avatars since i don't even have any clue about avatar making and ripping, which you maybe can see as i just got corrected by @idle violet
Didn't even know they're usable. Thought it's some own package system or something they convert the files to after upload.

[devout berry]

Can we stop talking about this stuff? It makes me sick when people just talk about vulnerabilities and other negative stuff all the time... How about being positive?

[jovial kestrel]

I understand, however it's irrelevant if you rip or not. We don't discuss it here.

Bottom line.

[neon oracle]

Uuhhh. Welllll... udons getting better?

[unreal verge]

Ok, i understand

[signal jewel]

Yo it’s three in the morning should I risk it and get some noodles?

[neon oracle]

Why.. wouldnt.. you

[idle violet]

It just makes me sad. That's the lack of security VRChat has and it makes me upset.

It literally makes Avatar creator QUIT cause it imediatly get's ripped and shared.

[neon oracle]

Sadly tupper talked about that and claimed it's nearly impossible to prevent ripping and if they could they would be working for government security. Dont know why it's so hard but just how it is I guess. The sad reality.

[cold quiver]

I would rather the vrchat's teams efforts be spent else where. It is virtually impossible to secure game files. if they could do it they are better off licensing the technology to other game developers.

[unreal verge]

Unfortunately the best way to avoid getting a avatar ripped is not uploading it in the first place

[vocal shard]

Ngl I had a model stolen and even used by a YouTuber, did turn me off it for a while but I’m back to making them and just loading them in publicly

[neon oracle]

That's why I think more creators just started putting stuff public as everything in vrc is public one way or another, hardly private. Unless you are godfall and want to go through the pain to DMCA everything than 🤷‍♂️

[unreal verge]

I've private avatars a friend made for me.

[vocal shard]

I’m not even any good at it and still had it stolen lol

[unreal verge]

Don't know if my avatars got stolen though. Never saw anyone using it and i don't visit sites where they may get published

[regal furnace]

have you installed the latest drivers?

[vocal shard]

Why is your cat barking?

You're the reason why I lost a few brain cells

[neon oracle]

That got me

[ruby tiger]

Reboot the cat

[vocal shard]

That one was gold!

[gray rune]

Resetting the router didn't change anything.

[summer bridge]

great

[neon oracle]

Than idk. Those are the things I've been recommended and have tried to some avail. Mainly the VPN one so I assumed you know doing a proper modem reset and getting a new IP might help as it seems others work but idk what to tell ya. Just possibly try in the morning and if it's still not working then contact vrc support with an output log.

[unreal verge]

I tried to use VPNs too but they make my connection awful

[summer bridge]

Guys

Any reason why I can't upload Gipsy Avenger to vrchat even tho im in game tab and the scene is on?

[regal furnace]

its just a reminder

[unreal verge]

Nothing, at least nothing new and it's a warning

[neon oracle]

Right but there have been times where I've had the same issue as Johnny where all my friends could connect to vrchat and load worlds fine but I would just be stuck at 0% and such and as soon as I turned on a VPN it would go back to working. It is super weird. Then the next day not having a VPN on would be fine again. Back in October though I had it happen for like a week or more period to where I just had to have a VPN on if I wanted to play vrc.

[unreal verge]

That's odd, never got this issue. My connection at least works better without VPNs. VPNs caused some serious connection performance issues.

[ruby tiger]

that's a new feature in the driver update

[neon oracle]

A reminder that modified clients are against TOS and bannable

[unreal verge]

A reminder that there are no mods that allowed. You don't even need to think about it any further if you aren't using mods.

[vocal shard]

Takes hammer away from cat

[neon oracle]

Yea usually that's how it goes but for some reason like I've said, just had points where vrc has hated my og IP it seemed

Make it pop instead. Much more entertaining

[vocal shard]

If barks like dog give it peanut butter

[summer bridge]

As soon as I click Publish to Vrchat it does something but the GUI doesnt come

[unreal verge]

You underestimate the situation heavily

[regal furnace]

people do, stuff like Playspace Mover, OVR advanced settings etc are not meant by that. Its stuff like the 🍉 - client thing that modify the client itself

[cold quiver]

🤦‍♂️

[neon oracle]

Oh god

[jovial kestrel]

[regal furnace]

then how does it work?

[jovial kestrel]

You wouldn't happen to know from personal experience, would you?

[cold quiver]

i wish i had emoji permissions so i could use a better facepalm

[vocal shard]

[cold quiver]

are you really trying to argue over semantics

[unreal verge]

Ah i can't say anything without going further into details which i want to avoid

[jovial kestrel]

Also, we don't mention cheat or mod software by name. So those are going.

[neon oracle]

IPA is an injector so it isn't modding. Yea ok

[vocal shard]

[regal furnace]

then what about that "QoL" client that many people use? not modified client either?

[unreal verge]

Remove the name of the program

[vocal shard]

^

[regal furnace]

Blender + CATS plugin

[unreal verge]

Can you elaborate?

No

[regal furnace]

since i cannot name the client by name, its the one by Yoshifan. maybe you can find it when you look for it, its a well known one

[unreal verge]

These are against ToS - client modification

[jovial kestrel]

Apps like Virtual Desktop or OVRAS do not modify VRChat.

[regal furnace]

i know, but stevecam said that these clients dont even modify vrchat itself

[unreal verge]

Yeah they load ontop but it's still altering the way VRChat works

[neon oracle]

If it adds abilities/changes the way the game looks/functions I think that's grounds for modification

[unreal verge]

Correct

[regal furnace]

not necessary, there are also apps like OVRAS that gives you possibilities without interfering with VRChat

[vocal shard]

I love OVRAS do people really need more then that?

[unreal verge]

I use OVRAS, fpsVR and XSOverlay. Great tools.

[regal furnace]

fpsVR and TurnSignal ^^

[neon oracle]

True but that is within steamVR itself. I would not say that includes vrchat and as long as people can tell that they are different than yea.

[vocal shard]

Like in a car?

[regal furnace]

to not tangle my cable too much

[vocal shard]

So it tells you how many times you turned?

[clear mauve]

hey so steam says I'm missing file privileges and verifying the files didn't fix it, what to do?

[unreal verge]

Again, please don't mention names of programs used to mod games. That might get you banned here.

[regal furnace]

pretty much, yea

[umbral reef]

explains why his simp army joined the chat not too long ago and spammed promoted his thing tot he point they had to ban people temporary

[vocal shard]

Oh I just look through the nose area at my cable

[jovial kestrel]

🤦‍♂️

[regal furnace]

i have a pulley, i cant look through the nose gap

[cold quiver]

🍿

[regal furnace]

and its free as well ^^

[neon oracle]

Which headset?

[unreal verge]

I think i know which disaster you're referring too

[vocal shard]

I swing in a yoga silk in full body even and don’t have any problems

[regal furnace]

Index

[neon oracle]

Same, wireless when ;-;. Sadly prob never

[regal furnace]

i dont mind the cables too much honestly

[craggy holly]

Does anybody have a calico cat avatar?

[vocal shard]

#avatar-search-old @craggy holly

[craggy holly]

Oop

[neon oracle]

Just becomes a problem when you wanna dance or even play games like the cool new lasertag worlds. Would be nice to do quick moves without thinking about where my cable is

[regal furnace]

true that

[unreal verge]

I think fpsVR has a feature for the cables. Saw something related to this.

[regal furnace]

really? i never saw something for it

[vocal shard]

I will say because of the yoga silks the index has an amazing breakaway port!

[neon oracle]

I'm too much of a simp for xsoverlay and don't wanna run more than 1 program lol

[unreal verge]

I think it was something about cable untangling

[unreal verge]

I've 3 lol

[regal furnace]

does it add a better desktop view and a better keyboard than the SteamVR one?

[unreal verge]

Can't play without OVRAS. Playspace mover is just too good.

[regal furnace]

playspace mover is outdated and its exactly the same as OVRAS

[neon oracle]

How do you do it 😰 . I got my ovr advanced settings and xsoverlay. All I need

Yea considering OVRAS is on steam now for free everyone should just get

[unreal verge]

Huh? It's fpsVR. It's related to monitoring the system and VR performance while in VR

[regal furnace]

i meant xsoverlay

[unreal verge]

Oh I've that too

[unreal verge]

I use OVRAS

Oops wrong person

[neon oracle]

Anything and everything does wdyymmm

[inland knot]

Im so happy that they finally posted that announcment

i cannot hear the argument "oh no this one is okay and its fine if it doesnt annoy anyone"

[unreal verge]

Yeah you can spawn multiple windows without opening SteamVR overlay. And the keyboard is like a normal keyboard and has every button fom a normal one

[inland knot]

just dont use clients or modify the sdk its not hard

[regal furnace]

huh, might need to look into it then

[neon oracle]

Can open multiple windows without going into weird afk pose, can pin them, they move with you when you move in your playspace and even turn your head unlike ovr toolkit. The keyboard is full and makes nice typing noises. It's just better

Xsoverlay by vrc player xiexe for the win

[unreal verge]

An alternative to XSOverlay is OVR Toolkit

[neon oracle]

I h8 u, no

[unreal verge]

I refunded OVR Toolkit though. Cause it did draw too much performance while idling.

[neon oracle]

XSOverlay is just ovr toolkit but better basically. Looks much nicer and is much more functional for the vrc player id say.

[severe lily]

[inland knot]

Oh wow, hey xiexe

[severe lily]

Hiya!

[inland knot]

I was just using your shader

[civic quest]

Anybody here hang out in dance clubs? I've been going to Volt daily but I'd like to know of other popular places to groove

[neon oracle]

YeS

[unreal verge]

Sadly i can't visit Volt Club

World is too heavy for my pc

[heavy inlet]

does anyone know where i can get meme avatars? saw an air conditioner avatar today with a static air conditioner noise, most hilarious shit ever

[vocal shard]

hello

[neon oracle]

Rum hams got a pretty good world

[heavy inlet]

ty

[vocal shard]

.

[buoyant forum]

Just search meme avatar

[vocal shard]

Hello there guys, is there someone with cool avatars? Pls hmu

[fresh iris]

bro really the fav tab is glitched again? also whats with 80% of the player base unable to join the game

[ancient dirge]

Who wants to do rp in like 15 min

Dm me if u want to

[rocky hare]

dm me if u can help what vr i should get im £ so dm me if u caan help

[lunar root]

Should I ask before cloning someone's avatar and putting it in my favourites

oh no for some reason i can't hear anyone

im restarting the game
honestly i'm not sure iw ould consider it a game it's too good

[reef dawn]

It's polite to ask to clone for sure.

[unreal verge]

Or you click on show avatar author and go to one of the worlds listed there. High chance it's from an avatar world of this creator.

[steel cairn]

Anyone wanna join the halo cult in vrchat ?

[vocal shard]

I'm kinda new to VR anyone wanna be friends ?

[lunar root]

Yay my avatar finally updated

https://vrchat.com/home/user/usr_dddcf092-2980-44cd-98ba-d1a2a7651540

[steel cairn]

Sure

Vrchat name ?

[lunar pagoda]

DM me if you want to play with me. I'll give you my in-game name in DM's

[steel cairn]

Ok

[vocal shard]

someone shy~

[steel cairn]

I'll play with anyone

[lunar root]

i love the mha world everyone there is great

[steel cairn]

What world ?

[lunar root]

UA high world