career-chat

[storm river]

I saw one Chinese review with a video on it, but it didn't seem egregious

(the grievances in the video)

[shut token]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2OzKGV0hELw

This is a few months old mind you, but without playing, this is all we have to go off of really. First impressions are massive on steam. So because you released it in this state and garnered those huge negative reviews, this game is going to be facing a ridiculously steep hill to climb.

[storm river]

The boss attack looks so much like a cricket swing 😅

But yeah, the first few reviews can be pretty make or break, unfortunately.

[shut token]

Really? Tab menu is broken, no instructions, minions stronger than boss, 2 levels, no sound effects, random debug visuals still in the game, don't know what any of the icons mean, health amount changes based on which map you're on, boss is underwhelming, etc...

No controls, title isn't displayed on the main menu

And I didn't even watch all 12 minutes.

[pure kettle]

And people would give it some slack if it weren't for the high price for Early Access title being in such state.

[shut token]

Because the version you released, that he purchased was in such state, that he didn't feel a compelling reason TO return.

[storm river]

/ he may have refunded before the update came out, having recorded the video in advance

Your description literally said pricing would stay stable hahaha

[pure kettle]

I'm not familiar with Steam's way of handling things, but you better lower the price (or make it free until release)

[shut token]

We don't know the current state of the game - but from that video - game should be free in that state. Will be pretty hard pressed to convince people otherwise.

[storm river]

Yeah the reviewed build is an itch.io one, unfortunately. With money comes the expectation of quality and depth, which was missing initially

[pure kettle]

Even some people would put more effort into initially free games, just to get good first impressions and gather hype before fully sold it.

[storm river]

Mate come on this is a few assets and months of work, surely you didn't think it would go well?

[shut token]

Not release an asset flip initially for starters. Nothin' wrong with using assets, but you need to nurture them.

[storm river]

Like do you enjoy games? Would you enjoy the one you released into EA, if you paid for it?

[pure kettle]

Honestly, using marketplace assets is not a huge sin, much to the dismay of Jim Sterling shenanigans, but considering how the assets were used on your project, based on the screencaps and recordings, and still charging quite a lot... Yeah, sorry.

[storm river]

If you don't want to scrap the game, slice price in half, give current owners gift copies or something, and rewrite the description to be transparent about the state and content of the game

[shut token]

Yeah - I'm not saying using assets is a sin, hell, Phasmophobia is just Unity assets with a few tweaks to some. It's all about execution. Which is why I said that you need to nurture them.

[storm river]

But also sleep on anything you decide to do. Just wait it out and see if it still feels like a good idea after a morning or two. My golden rule 🤷

But for a blunt question, all I'm seeing is Dark Souls inspiration. Why wouldn't I play that instead, what's your hook going to be? Do you have one?

You're leaning into DS inspiration, when there are lots of souls-likes. Showcase what's different

[tidal moth]

usually when you make a marketing campaign, it culminates with the release of your product. if you're doing it after you've released, it's generally thought of as too late

[storm river]

I'll be having a look soon, see if much has changed

Odd to not have much on the Steam page though yeah

Gets "good" at 0:15, but I can't even get out of spawn ATM and the walking is excruciatingly slow (with a controller)

I'm glad you're optimistic, but they took a working core and broke it. Not sure what's better! I'll try again in a second without a controller (and maybe in 16:9) but it's not looking good haha

I'm honestly not sure this is something you could even pitch as a functional vertical slice, much less fit for people to purchase and play

Yup nah, fuck that. I can't even take down 4 grunts in a row and there's 10s of them. They unleash a 4 hit combo spanning like 500ms total, and you go down in 2.5.

@gray oriole Serious question, have you guys played the Souls games? Do you like them? You have one massive issue here with your "combos", you can attack every second or two and you are getting a new animation every time. It's impossible to time when you are attacking something as a result, which was a big issue with Witcher 3 except you don't die in 2 hits in that game, so it's excusable(ish).

Demonstrated here. Note I briefly got stuck under the lamp (lol), and you can get full on stuck there too...

[dense phoenix]

if only a better marketplace asset was used for the combat system...

[tidal moth]

isn't this thing an asset flip entirely?

[storm river]

I honestly couldn't find much that worked. The resolution selection didn't. New/ continue game detection didn't. Abilities were listed but didn't work. Block was just missing entirely, even if listed as an ability...

[storm river]

Asset flips are devoid of creativity normally, this is lacking a bit more than that ATM

[tidal moth]

what's your recommendation?

worth a buy?

[storm river]

Well the thing is I was ready to deep dive and actually playtest, but this is a sorry excuse of a game. There isn't any particular issue with it, it just feels like the product of a hazy 2-night game jam that was never ever playtested, but somehow it's selling on Steam?

TBH my game (in a similar vein) is probably at a similar stage, for example, and I feel like I'm about a year away from looking for funding/ grants... 🙃

[dense phoenix]

classify it as whatever genre or game type - even by not comparing, the input doesnt feel good. Thats a fail. Even if the art is crap, or if the AI has jank, or whatever, if I simply cant enjoy pressing the buttons to control my avatar, its not going to keep me.

[pure kettle]

For some reason my mobile Discord app refuse to play any video.

Brb checking on PC what it's all about

[storm river]

+1, the moment to moment stuff always has to feel good at least. You can get away with just good in EG 4X or point and click games, where the focus is elsewhere.

In Soulslikes, the moment to gameplay is EVERYTHING. If you can't absolutely nail that, the game is going to fail. The NPCs/ stories are random, not much crafting or build planning etc, it's all about the combat feel.

[dense phoenix]

it does that sometimes...

[dense phoenix]

i remember awhile ago someone released a joke death stranding game. literally running in a flat basic-ass terrain with almost no textures and that had better input

[storm river]

https://imgur.com/a/STo3mki

Also I think torch particle FX are bugged lol, just paused?

[flat gazelle]

Maybe Unreal-Engine or Lounge is better for this discussion at this point?

[storm river]

https://imgur. com/a/STo3mki

[pure kettle]

*moving convo to #lounge *

[plucky hatch]

when moving to another country because you are going to work in a studio. Do you have to have the visa before going? I just thought that, what if the process to get the visa, somehow takes longer than expected?

[half shale]

You are absolutely 100% right to be worried about that. Normally that's something the employer hiring you should sort out for you, they generally have to petition for the visa on your behalf

Sometimes there's other options than a visa, for example if you're moving between NAFTA countries you can get a TN "work status" which is a lot simpler. But it all depends on where you're moving to and what the laws of that nation are

[pure kettle]

I'm sorry, but looking at the videos alone (no need to bribe me a key, I know full well the CCS pack you used as is), it doesn't convey something that's potentially fun. And I don't get what makes it standout enough as a vertical slice, and as far as asset flips goes. I don't see a substantial effort put into it, from buggy hitboxes, shoddy AI bundled from CCS (I swear, Doom has better AI, and it's from 1993 so it's simple by today's standard and well documented), unclear HUD, to seemingly unintuitive combat.

I gave you like the fullest benefit of the doubt, but now I see that your game is not worth the price for Early Access, nor extensive marketing.

[topaz wing]

What career path do programmers follow in gamedev? My guess is
junior->regular->senior
but i have no idea if there is something beyond that and how big are the gaps between each advancement.

[pure kettle]

Some might start from a very unlikely positions, and through the power of employee suggestions

[tidal moth]

every role has a similar path. intern > junior > intermediate > senior then it's sort of like a grey area depending on what you want to do. principal || lead then onwards from there are higher level management positions like director

[flat gazelle]

Some companies break it down futher. With like senior II

[tidal moth]

people aren't always keen to move upwards the hierarchy from a certain point onwards

[topaz wing]

Does that mean they basically want to stay programmer, and not move to management? Also that this mean you are no longer going to get a pay rise?

[tidal moth]

the roman numerals usually denote you've broken through the pay range for your position and need to have a new range

so senior II would be paid more than senior

[grand pulsar]

anyone knows where to buy second hand rtx card

[dense phoenix]

Try #hardware

[ruby relic]

Bro you went full savage mode. 😵 Nvm saw the game play and price tag.

[oblique ice]

#volunteer-projects

[green quarry]

I think this is the right room to ask this. Do you guys know other ways of finding people for a project other than getting to know them as you go in the industry or just strictly employing someone?

Thanks I will use that! The getting to know them part has been unlucky for me

Tried to work a couple times with different people but had no luck in actually finding someone, em, good

I will have to try my luck again, cant get anything done if you dont try

Since I got your attention

Like most people I plan on having my own studio at some point but I keep wandering, should I try to make something by myself or just keep working for someone till I find enough people who would be willing to take our chances

What do you think?

[flat gazelle]

Like most people?

[ashen lynx]

It is simple. Good people dont take chances.

[green quarry]

Most people i talked to

[flat gazelle]

Any of them made any games?

[ashen lynx]

At least when it comes to work for hire

[green quarry]

Yup

[flat gazelle]

Hmm...

[tidal moth]

haha I was thinking this

[flat gazelle]

Running a studio sounds like absolute hell.

[green quarry]

Guess I had the wrong idea

Well better for me in that case, less competition in an already competitive market

[flat gazelle]

I mean, running a studio has very little to do with gamedevelopment, so it'd probably be better to ask in management and entrepreneur discords.

At least until you built up your support staff.

[tidal moth]

even so it's likely going to be something along the lines of meetings all day

every day

for long hours

[flat gazelle]

Yeah, I meant more that he could come to gamedev servers for recruitement after that.

[green quarry]

let me clarify

a studio of like maybe 5 people

Not a huge one

Just a group of people that want to make thier own games

Im just planing for the future

[flat gazelle]

Then securing funding is a good first step!

Otherwise you'll likely face some disappointment if you build a great team without the means to pay them.

[green quarry]

only time will tell

but thanks for the advice

Why is that? Im just planing for the far future. Cant have everything figured out from the get go

[flat gazelle]

I would recommend starting with reading up a bit on how games are made. Not on a "here's how to import an animation" level. But on a first comes pitch, then preprod, then VS, then prod etc. How to secure funding, legal services, personel and so on to set that up. When and how to do marketing. Both for the game and for the studio.

I think that will give you the biggest chance of actually shipping something worthwile and creating a studio that will outlast the first project.

[green quarry]

I know how games are made, jsut need to figure out the rest of the stuff, but anyway that is some good advice which I will keep in mind

You always have to start somewhere

[flat gazelle]

Gotcha, so you have a pitchbuild ready for the people you are looking to hire?

If you have the pitch and secured funding using it, I'd say the next step is to start taking out ads or hiring a recruiter.

Where to place those ads would depend on the role you are hiring for.

[green quarry]

Exactly what I came here for, thanks!

So how should I go about doing this? I think asking around and searching for information is a good place to start.

[random zenith]

I am here from VC & PE fundraising world and just poking around. I think there is risk appetite for funding UE related ventures.

If anyone is curious about the process of raising capital for an idea/project. Feel free to DM.

[vagrant bramble]

:triangular_flag_on_post: ! Tryftz#6184 received strike 1. As a result, they were muted for 10 minutes.

[topaz wing]

My friend recently told me that programmers in gamedev get different treatment, in sense they are the last to get laid off, or get a better salary (than most other roles involved in creating games). His argument was that programmers take way longer to train. I have never heard that opinion before, I always used to think its quite the opposite, and everyone who plans to work within game development has to realise that they might have to start looking for a job at any time. Is that true?

[tidal moth]

programmers get paid more because they can always go to the general software industry, who will pay them much more than they would get from gamedev

and because there's always a need for programmers... and people who are technically skilled

[flat gazelle]

Gamedev is as stable any other tech industry. Varies by country of course.

[tidal moth]

especially nowadays with big players stepping in to offer funding and liquidity

[flat gazelle]

Yup

With all that entails. It's a job.

If you want to make the next indie hit, then you can't expect the same stability regular jobs give.

[tidal moth]

yeah that's what I meant

I think it's more a perception

or an argument for raises etc.

I don't know though, I'm not a programmer

I know at least one person who did

I've heard statistics about the average stint in the industry is about 8 years or so

and people do get burned out in some cases

but that's probably not just for programmers

[flat gazelle]

Do you know where that number comes from?

I heard 7 ages ago, but I can't for the life of me find the source.

I've been looking for bloody years.

[tidal moth]

I heard it a long time ago as well, don't know where it is... or even who said it 🤔 sorry

[flat gazelle]

All I can find are Quora questions saying similar numbers but nobody has a source for it.

I'm starting to think it's just an urban legend that was never really researched.

I first heard it well over ten years ago.

Maybe it came from a GDC State of the industry, or some random Igda shenanigans back in the day.

[tidal moth]

maybe yeah

[rustic rain]

I want to dev a game with some pals, but we hit the first wall of our idea before even beginning the production xD

[pure kettle]

If you're stuck, consider writing down GDD (game design document)

[rustic rain]

Whats that? Or where’s that

Its not specifically the idea thats stopping me, its the aftermath

[pure kettle]

Jot/type down grand plan for your game. Doesn't even have to be followed accurately in the future, just mainly serving for the point of reference for development.

[rustic rain]

I want to try myself with a Roleplay game (I know multiple companies/studios have promised that) but Then theres the aspect like, who would run businesses, how would we deal with troublesome players etc

Then its all the coding, and for a beginner it’s overwhelming 😂

[pure kettle]

deal with troublesome players

Then start with single player game.

Reaching for the stars is cool and all, but consider that (massively) multiplayer online games aren't coming out of thin air nor developed by a newcomer.

[rustic rain]

So, perhaps start small, and if it gets some attention it could become bigger and bigger with years?

Going from a simple singleplayer to more advanced with changelists and such?

[pure kettle]

As for the business side, that's why you want to hire someone to take the biz role and take care of the business side of things.

[rustic rain]

Well, I meant business in the game

If I was to make a roleplay game, then there’s head of police, government and all of that

[pure kettle]

Yes, release single player games first (or local MP), don't think about running MMO until you have enough profit, hired enough people, and get a specialty publisher on board to run the service.

[pure kettle]

Don't even think hard about it if it's a linear RPG.

[rustic rain]

It wouldnt be a linear game

Just like a Real life mmorpg

[pure kettle]

Put that plan for MMO of yours somewhere, so that you can reference it in the future.
For now, the goal is to prove yourself/your studio in the industry and consumers, and the easier way is to make enjoyable single player games until you have enough funding, staff, and community to lure in.

Unfortunately MMORPG is not something that underdogs realistically able to take, if failed (or outright scam) indie MMO pojects by non industry veterans are of any proof.

[worn bone]

^

always write down your ideas, keep them on hand for later implementation

[oblique ice]

agree, even most of my project are single player

[worn bone]

but if you're just starting out, aim smaller-than-small

i had my own big MMO dream project back about 12 years ago, but right now I just want to make a basic scrolling shooter

[flat gazelle]

I'm guessing this is a satire account. Nobody actually tries to make an mmo as their first game anymore. It's just a callback to the heady days of last decade.

[worn bone]

agreed

[dense phoenix]

it was LoL clones not too long ago

[storm river]

There hasn't been a strong trend in a while, wonder what's next.

[dense phoenix]

ive seen a particular trend in bad sim games

but as far as what people are actually playing... yeah, nothing new really (genre-wise)

[placid frost]

Didn't Batllerite made a MOBA battleroyal already ? (it wasn't a lot of player per match though if I recall correctly)

[mossy pine]

Added some new details to my Artstation page! https://www.artstation.com/artwork/Aro68V

[pure kettle]

#work-in-progress or #released
Or see #instructions to put yourself on #hire-a-freelancer

[forest wren]

Are there any Game Dev roadmaps similar to this one which is used if you're becoming a frontend web developer? https://roadmap.sh/frontend I really like how the data is displayed and that you can click a subject to read more about it.

ahh nevermind, I found one! https://github.com/utilForever/game-developer-roadmap

[stuck holly]

These roadmaps always make me feel so anxious haha, was relieved when I saw the server roadmap and was able to check off quite many elements.
On that note can anybody recommend a good book about computer graphics? I imagine something which covers all the main topics but doesn't get too deep in maths etc. I assume that if I use Unreal then I don't have to know the concepts to the same depth as if I'd be writing my own engine.

[supple timber]

so theres this job listing for a part time dev with experience required that i fill and its 20h/week for a 400€ salary , what do you think?

[flat gazelle]

20$/h is terrible

[tidal moth]

I guess it depends on location. is it per month?

[supple timber]

per month

5€/hr not 20

[flat gazelle]

Oh jeebus

no

NOOOO

[supple timber]

is it that low? @flat gazelle

[tidal moth]

depends on where you are based and your level of experience. I'm sure it's fortune in some countries

but probably not in europe 😉

[flat gazelle]

Yeah. I am an experienced specialist, but I would ask for 20x that before getting interested.

[royal lintel]

That's under federal minimum wage in the US. I have no idea where this job is but that's a huge nope even as a jr dev.

[supple timber]

its an ok entry level job

[pure kettle]

Depending on where you live, because if this is converted to euros, by third world money standard, this gets you alive for one month + savings

[supple timber]

its about a month of rent + some leftovers

[pure kettle]

Sorry, but for clarity, where do you live?

[tidal moth]

eastern europe I assume?

[supple timber]

greece

ye

[tidal moth]

yeah I don't know the standards for greece

but you can probably get higher than that

plus remote work is a thing

[supple timber]

650€/mo is min wage for a 40h week

[flat gazelle]

It's so hard to say when it comes to international rates. I charged a vietnamese company 85 $/h and they didn't even haggle

[supple timber]

so half of that for a 20h week

325 would be min wage

i would be getting 400

[silk shadow]

that is low for a programming job tbh specifically where you are from

i am from a third world country and knowing how much effort a dev has to put in, sure for part time that is great for me, but full time that is low even for me :v

also it depends as well on how experienced a dev they ask for, as the more experienced a person the more you are expected to be paid atleast

[viscid flame]

@supple timber unbelievebal

[supple timber]

what?

[viscid flame]

That someone thinks vor this low wage to get someone . If i read right it ist in Greece.

[supple timber]

ye greece

[opal hearth]

Hi guys, i finished my first work for unreal engine but i dont know about costing. Is someone knows cost of configuring a tank in 3dsmax for unreal engine ?

[pulsar knoll]

hi

hi ! when i click is made for children what happens to the rest that is 18+ ? can they see this video to ?

indeed

stupid laws haha xD

stil good that my child doesnt see bad stuff by this law

[main wharf]

Quick FYI on Child Enabled videos on YouTube. It disables comment and like support. :3

[vague oriole]

:3 -> What emotion is this emoticon supposed to convey?

[pastel estuary]

kitten-smile

[main wharf]

Cat face, like Lorash said. ^^

[royal lintel]

#lounge

[pulsar knoll]

xD

sry

my heart melted when i saw the smiling citty so i wanted to show mine ❤️

[pastel estuary]

very cute! but yea, post it in lounge instead please. they love cats!

[steep kernel]

Hey guys, I am 15 and I am from India, And here game dev is not that developed, I have learned game dev basics as it is my hobby, But Idk how to creat this hobby into a career, I want to know about how game dev is as a career, And what and where we can learn game dev, And also renevue we can earn from it

Thanks

[dusk galleon]

start learning c++ #cpp click the first link you see while scrolling up

[dense phoenix]

Really isnt

[pure kettle]

I'd say don't think about game dev as a career yet. Else you'd be churning out shitty ad-ridden shovelware on Google Play Store.

[steep kernel]

Eh?

[pure kettle]

Just start learning on general C++ programming, and shall you use Unreal Engine, take the Unreal Online Learning course (link is on pinned message in #ue4-general)

In the meantime, complete your school and learn the things I said above in your spare time.

Don't think about the financials just yet.

[misty knot]

I disagree, starting to think seriously about your future at 15 is smart, but you gotta stay flexible and find out some things might not be for you

But you can also find your passion young and work hard to achieve your goal

[flat gazelle]

Or burn out before even having a chance of figuring out who you are.

[pure kettle]

IMO getting into financials first is a tough proposition, considering the third world scene

[flat gazelle]

Be young. Do stupid shit.

Careers come later.

You have half a century before you are done with work.

[steep kernel]

But I know game dev in unreal engine, I didn't say give me a course of something to learn ue4 , I asked how game dev is as a carder

*carrer

[misty knot]

Not mutually exclusive

[steep kernel]

Oh ok, I g you're right

[misty knot]

I wish I would have started 8 years ago

[steep kernel]

Yeha true lol

[misty knot]

(23 now)

[steep kernel]

Oh and you're a game dev now right?

[misty knot]

No I just started learning

[pure kettle]

Well, you can start by proving yourself on the scene, putting out playable, fun games on itch.io and alike

[misty knot]

Make some games for free first

Or for friends/family

[pure kettle]

Heh, I'm almost 23, and was a modder since I was a kid lol

[steep kernel]

Off, I know what to do man, ig you didn't get my question

[misty knot]

To answer your question, don't expect to get rich

Lol

[pure kettle]

That modding experience is what gets me into game dev

[steep kernel]

And I am doing that rn, I was just asking how game dev is as a career not I want to choose game dev as a carrer

[steep kernel]

And I am not lol

[flat gazelle]

It's a great career. But it's not an easy one.

[misty knot]

It's a career where you are gonna need passion because you could earn double ybe money in a similar role

For programmers atleast

[pure kettle]

By working in game dev studios, or establish a studio yourself, or really selling your games you made yourself.

Is that what you want to read?

[misty knot]

If you wanna be a designer you don't even need to code

[steep kernel]

Oh, Ok, That's what I needed to know thanks guys

[steep kernel]

Yeah kinda

[pure kettle]

Nice.

[steep kernel]

Thanks @pure kettle

[pure kettle]

Wasn't designers needed to have some knowledge of coding, or at least scripting, so that they can relate to gameplay programmers?

[steep kernel]

Thanks @misty knot

[misty knot]

Yeah I I specifically mean coding

[steep kernel]

Yeah they need some code atleast

[misty knot]

You're still gonna be scripting and programming

[steep kernel]

Like making materials, Or in level design work etc

[misty knot]

But usually with nodes and links not with actual code

There is ofcourse some overlap

[steep kernel]

Yup ikr

[misty knot]

Some designers will code as well

[oblique ice]

too many things about they carier, can try watch interviw abotu actual game developer

[misty knot]

Some might not program at all

[pure kettle]

I think designers who know nothing about workings on games will just burden the programmers with unrealistic expectations

[steep kernel]

Lol

[tidal moth]

many different types of designers exist. some only do the planning and no implementation

[misty knot]

If the studio has 10 members? Yeah but if there is 500 people working on a game you can have specific design roles that won't do programming

And the programmers wouldn't want the design team touching their code

There are a lot of options out there is what I wanna say

[pure kettle]

At least in Japan, there's a dedicated role as a game planner.

[misty knot]

Try them all out and see which ones you like

I'm making a game with only blueprints atm and its very doable

I wanna learn C++ eventually but it would be just too much to learn at the same time

[pure kettle]

Took me 2 or so years of BPing to get my hands dirty in C++
Even then I felt like I'm just scratching the surface.

[misty knot]

Behaviour trees broke me

It took me like 2 weeks to get a hang of them

I couldn't imagine also learning difficult c++ principles rn lol

[oblique ice]

you make the game that have dear?

[misty knot]

What do you mean?

[pure kettle]

I've worn out of BTs, and been itching myself to get a look at Utility AI

Or maybe FSM AI

At least FSM AI is what Mihoyo chooses for Genshin Impact.

As much as I hate the game for its business model, I do appreciate the gameplay and graphics engineering that put into it

[dusk galleon]

should i take com sci course for game developing or BSIT with specialization in animation and game dev

[golden lance]

Hey guys!😁

Over the past year I discovered I have a huge passion for Level Design😍! I began by following some tutorials to create meshes in blender and from there I ended up taking some Unreal Engine short courses which have lead to me being super keen to take this on as a career path!😍
Following the courses, I began watching tutorials to create environments and so I have various environments which I presented using mini sequences (to make it more interesting than a screenshot). However I am now stuck. I am desperate to go for it as a career and I have been informed by many that completing a uni course is not necessary to take Level Design as a career, although I am not entirely sure how to move forward.. does anyone have any tips? Suggestions? I am really new to all this so any advice would be much appreciated!

[tidal moth]

completing uni isn't necessary, but there's definitely upsides to doing so

like you'll likely get the experience working on game projects in teams, you can likely pick up some work for a portfolio, and generally achieve some fundamental level of design knowledge

but barring that, I'd suggest getting a portfolio together that shows your work in terms of design. what we usually look for is LD that is well thought out in relation to the game genre, and that is carried out with a reflective and analytical attitude

if you're looking for specific LD guidance, you're always welcome to ask questions in #level-design

[golden lance]

Very true! I would prefer to avoid Uni but obviously if it is necessary i will take that route, thank you so much for getting back to me so quickly!

[golden lance]

Thank you so much for all this. It is very helpful

Although this is where I 'panic' - i question whether what I am doing is what is looked for as I am totally new to it all.

[golden lance]

Thank you! Maybe i'll pop over there and ask for some guidance! I appreciate your help a lot 😁

[tidal moth]

no worries

[faint bear]

Hey i was just wondering

I am making a horror game

How much money do they take from your game when your about to release it

[dense phoenix]

who?

[tidal moth]

them

[dense phoenix]

All (eventually)

[main wharf]

them is so fucking ominous, omg. Especially talking about a horror game. xD

[pure kettle]

Blink twice if you're being held ransom by a scary manager

Hmm, I wonder if developer being held ransom for developing a specific game could be an interesting written story 🤔

[dense phoenix]

only if they make a game about it

[royal lintel]

it's not a scary manager, it's "them"

[pure kettle]

Then scary managers they are.

"Make a horror game in a month! Else you're getting your horror, in your daily life."

[dense phoenix]

"how i made a game in 10 hours at gun point"

[main wharf]

This is how it's done, ominous spooky alien creatures have wanted to infiltrate humanity for so long. They tried cats, but failed, now they're aiming at developers to spread their message to the largest growing entertainment market. One Developer hostage, at a time.

[pure kettle]

That's a good story idea, I'm going to draft this.

[royal lintel]

Just make sure you save up enough cash to pay them off when you release.

[dense phoenix]

who?

[royal lintel]

them

[dense phoenix]

im getting deja vu

[lilac nova]

Hi all, sorry I haven't been super active in this server. I have a question regarding becoming an art director in the game industry. I graduated from my college woth bachelors in game art. After graduation, I had several temporary jobs where I filled tge role golf environment artist, technical artist and QA tester. Currently, I am working as a QA analyst in a amazing software company and I am gaining skills at a management level. While I am currently learning alot and enjoying my role, on next 4 years I would like to become an art director.

So my question is: is there a possibility for me to be an art director in the game industry? Given i have a background in game art and currently working as a QA Analyst? Is there a way that I don't have to jump into being a concept artist and spend more years starting from scratch? What do I need to do that can help me transition successfuly in next 4 years.

Thank you for taking the time all.

[flat gazelle]

No, there is not.

Potentially at an indie studio where you are the only artist.

To become an art director at a medium to large studio I would count on 15 to 20 years of working as an artist and shipping games. This does not include time in qa.

[green oyster]

I have a friend that is an art director at our Ubisoft branch. I think he already had 6-8 years of concept art experience (including senior positions) before joining, and in about 4-5 years there he reached the position

[deep copper]

Hey, does anybody know how I can post something in the job section?

[craggy nacelle]

Read #instructions

[dense phoenix]

@glossy jasper @desert adder @half shale if you'd like to continue here, not sure if that was the end of the convo - i think this is the right place, maybe someone will yell at us to move to #industry-chat

[tall fjord]

@dense phoenix if you remember the videos i have been posting on my "squid" game, do you think i should be ready to work soon?

[dense phoenix]

uhhh squid game....

[desert adder]

crab game

-dani-

[dense phoenix]

with the playstation platforms?

[tall fjord]

yup 😺 🔺 🔳 🔴 😫 🔫

[dense phoenix]

is there a latest video somewhere?

in wip channel maybe?

[tall fjord]

https://streamable.com/79zc6l

this one but im trying to make it look crappy to show the problem of flickering

[dense phoenix]

how much gameplay is there? how long does it take to complete your level?

[tall fjord]

platforms will light a sequence like in simon game. and then all players must jump to the platforms on sequence. if you forget it you will be dead 😫 🔫 🔺

then it will increase the sequence. until all are dead except one

i know that to learn the best thing is to work a lot in it

so id like to get a job asap

but i think im too noob yet

[dense phoenix]

how long does it take to complete the level...

[tall fjord]

can take a lot of time

depends on how much you can play and your enemies

but id say average 5-10 min

if you and your enemies have good memory can last a lot

[dense phoenix]

expect the average player to get through it as quick as possible

thats how long your game takes

5-10 sounds like plenty to make a video of for your portfolio. Highlight it all to about 1 minute though. No one wants to watch the boring stuff - you want to impress employers, so show the different things going on, funny moments, etc. We've seen lots of games, dont waste our time, and just from looking at your video, we know what you did.

[tall fjord]

thank you conrad. Thats great advice. 🙂 👍

[half shale]

I know the structure of the particular mini game Wolf's doing and it's like a last-man-standing thing. IIRC it's not a question of how long it takes to complete, it's a question of how long it takes for everyone but one to fail it.

[dense phoenix]

sure thing, i expect a 1 minute video on my desk by 11

do make one though, put it up in wip channel

[tall fjord]

exactly that

[tall fjord]

wait really? are you serious?

[dense phoenix]

yeah there's that part, but i was also getting an systems/code made

[half shale]

He's joking. 🙂

[dense phoenix]

according to my clock, you're 21 minutes late

[tall fjord]

oh 😢

[dense phoenix]

best hop to it

hope you know video editing software

[tall fjord]

😆

ok

[royal lintel]

Wrong channel. See #instructions

And don't crosspost.

[pure kettle]

<@&213101288538374145> crosspost across multiple channels

3+ channels, and I don't want to give some slack.

[vagrant bramble]

:warning: Failed to send a DM. User will not be notified.

:triangular_flag_on_post: GregS#3604 received strike 1. As a result, they were muted for 10 minutes.

[royal lintel]

lol

[half shale]

I do think we should have pinned the message where he called us a bunch of fuckin nerds. 😛

[pastel estuary]

lets not :)

[pure kettle]

No need. It's unnecessary, and I'm sure no one want to work with someone who proudly said that.

[polar linden]

Hello guys, I want to ask and request.

I want to find a 3d freelance job and i don't know where to find it. Can someone tell me where to find freelance jobs?

https://kaungmon.artstation.com/

here is my artstation account.

thanks. I'm new 😁

[steady pewter]

Gosh, Lorash were your fingers on the trigger?

I understand. It is UE network at the end.

... okay, UE has fast network, long live UE 🙏

[pulsar knoll]

hi

il be needing some other opinions

i use the easy survival rpg template, i made the game pretty big, every day i make 1 ai and few item drops, with those drops i make gameplay within the game, so actually

ai --> drops --> quest with the items --> a skil to make it easyer to kill --> a place for the ai, -->> a house for the place or open field, i like yo make my houses from little meshes and make it one piece,

what can you do, you can do

Quests, monsters , all the time action, make buildings, castle

and village, if you know theeasy survival rpg template you know what i mean

i want a name and i cant find one im happy with

im at monaria, what do you think for monaria to be?

the style is between low poly and sylish

[craggy nacelle]

I guess Monaria sounds vaguely fantasy'ish, it seems fine

[ionic crag]

Hello, I was wondering if someone could message me directly with an issue I have, and would throw some money their way if they could help me fix my issue. Thanks!

[steady pewter]

assembler #instructions

[pulsar knoll]

hiiiii

im having a hard time doing this can i get a little bit one on one time with someone who can help me ? 🙂

only for the screenshots i need help

dont get it all

[steady pewter]

You will have better luck in ... channel, what the hell is that even?

[pulsar knoll]

steamworks :p

its headbumping

it made me do this -.-

i even dont like it but i never like something i made 😄

but it works xD

[steady pewter]

But still, this is so off-topic, eww... xD

Anyway, I'm still not sure what is the question, sorry 👍

[steel creek]

the question is always reading comprehension. The answer is mostly failure.

[pulsar knoll]

it worked 😄

[rotund nymph]

Hi! I am considering applying to game dev programming jobs. Are the interviews for Unreal Engine jobs typically focused on Algos & Data Structures, as in other areas? Should I prepare other topics?

[minor saffron]

@rotund nymph Yes to A&DA with C++ and Unreal's C++. Especially with how things work in memory, pointers, references, etc.

[rotund nymph]

Thanks for the answer! Sadly Leetcode doesn't have an Unreal C++ playground

[minor saffron]

I feel that, I use Leetcode all the time to practise my C++ so I totally wish they had Unreal 😭

[rotund nymph]

Yep, I started with Leetcode and standard C++, actually didn't consider that I might be asked to use Unreal's types for the problems. It is not that bad but I try to understand the containers to solve problems effectively

like std::map vs std::unordered_map etc

I guess I'll code solutions using both types just to practise

[minor saffron]

Yup that's def a good idea, as Unreal uses things like TMaps and TSets whereas standard C++ has things like stacks and heaps

[vagrant bramble]

:no_entry_sign: Vampy_Mavis21#0955 was banned.

[rotund nymph]

Indeed, do you know if I can find some docs about those containers (their implementation etc), or maybe should I just go to the source code?

[minor saffron]

I would say that the Unreal documentation is a good start for these, and using the search function in Reddit too 🙂

[pure kettle]

Well, on C++ API side of things, Unreal docs felt more like auto generated docs.

[minor saffron]

I think for beginners they're fine, but if you really want to delve into certain things, then yea, I don't really recommend them lol

[pulsar knoll]

is this a good screen for game ?

im new with this

so i true what i know

[craggy nacelle]

Looks alright to me

[pulsar knoll]

nice thats what i wanna hear xD

[craggy nacelle]

I think the text may be a bit hard to read on smaller screens or at a smaller size so you may want to test that out

[pulsar knoll]

ow thanks for saying that indeed i gone test that out 😮

lucky i always save the photoshop file xD

[steady pewter]

#work-in-progress

[pulsar knoll]

ty

[steady pewter]

gl

[tall mural]

If i work with UE4 about 2 years and know most important about Level Design and have portfolio with my LD work - how i need to be prepared for work in LD? And how it's be?

[tidal moth]

well what is the most important thing about level design?

[steel creek]

that you ask in a #level-design forum and not a career channel

[limber abyss]

but hes asking about work 🤣

[pastel estuary]

@covert obsidian please read the #instructions and #rules as the job channels are the only place where you are allowed to ask such things.

[covert obsidian]

Understood

[river smelt]

Hey, all. I have been following the game industry for a while, but I am just now starting to get into it. I am currently interviewing for a AAA game dev company and was wondering what you think are things that I should look out for except the obvious overworking?

[oblique ice]

background, history of company, artist profile

[harsh brook]

if its your first one I'd try to ensure the project will ship, at least for me I'd be annoyed if I worked on something that didn't ship and its relatively common

[pastel estuary]

depending on expertise/speed/quality anywhere from 20 to a few hundred bucks.

[river smelt]

Also, it probably depends a lot on where you are located or the hired person is located.

[river smelt]

This office/studio has a good reputation with releasing, so this shouldn't be a problem, but I hadn't thought of that... Thank you all for the tips!

[pastel estuary]

sounds like you are offering him a low ranked job, tbh

[craggy nacelle]

Probably depends on where they live tbh, it seems fairly competitive in some parts at least if you calculate what a monthly wage from that would be

[harsh brook]

40/h is mid level range in the US

[molten knoll]

Hi, all; [dumb question but...] does anyone know if there are any industry recognized qualifications in the UK for working with Unreal or using UE for immersive (AR/VR/etc.) or virtual production (yikes, too soon I know)

[ashen lynx]

Thankfully, for now, there are no industry recognized qualifications in this field. I hope it remains so for as long as practicable. @molten knoll

[molten knoll]

I would agree wholly. It's an old way of thinking - I ask simply because I've been asked by "experts" here in the UK to find them 🙃

[flat gazelle]

#blueprint

[plucky hatch]

Ah alright

[outer cipher]

anyone know the best place to post job postings for gameplay programmers and TA's?

tried gamejobs.co and artstation, polycount, epic forums, not sure if there is somewhere Iam overlooking

[tidal moth]

there's a job board here

see #instructions

[outer cipher]

Tried there too yeah

[serene lava]

There is an official 'Authorized Unreal Engine Instructor' by Epic Games if you want to. Though certainly not a 'requirement'.

I am a Technical Director in Virtual Production using Unreal Engine and I have no qualifications. I just move pixels around and push buttons.

If you have question(s) feel free to reach out and I am happy to point to useful resources 🙂

[eager hare]

push buttons.

Hey that's what I do

[vague oriole]

Hi guys, I have a C++ game coding interview coming up where I have to resolve a bug that the company has faced before. I'm given 4 hours to resolve the bug 😳 . I'm thinking there will be a lot of code involved and they expect me to spend most of that time reading/understanding the code to deduce what is causing the bug. Does anybody here have any tips for preparing for these type of coding auditions? I've never did an interview like this before so any advice helps 👍 .

[warm abyss]

Use both of your pointer fingers for efficiency and good practice. The employers will immediately know you are a good candidate.

[fading hatch]

I think if you can navigate the project files, figure out the structure and purpose the code, you will find the bug. Just make sure it's fixed and maybe note down some more feedback. If you while searching for example find a piece of code that does something very weird with no comments or whatever, point that out, too. That means not only fixing the bug but shows that you care about the whole project long-term.
If you have some questions, just don't be afraid to ask them later. This shows good communication skills and interest.
Like "I really did wonder why you did those transforms in that way, can you maybe explain it to me?"

[eager hare]

Good advice tankbuster

[vague oriole]

yeah, I think you're right. It will probably just come down to experience. I recently finished a game in Unreal and solved (and created 😅 ) a bunch of bugs during that journey. I've also had to make changes to some of the Unreal source code. So hopefully that will give me an edge over the other candidates. Although, its been a month since that project so I hope I'm not too rusty 🙂 .

[vague oriole]

Thank you for that info. I think that is good advice and I'll definitely keep that in mind. 👍

[outer cipher]

Try to track it quickly using stacktrace,breakpoints,ensures and then find relevant mechanics

[ruby relic]

Environment looks great but lighting on character is little too bright. Reduce it little bit. Also his back looks empty, i will add something to it like a logo or some styled text.

[cloud narwhal]

I needed some advice

can you make a living out of making video games?

[ashen lynx]

Yes, but not for long. With a bit of luck, 70-80 years tops. @cloud narwhal

[pure kettle]

Can you? Yes
Will you? Depends.

[sand depot]

Hello everyone nice to meet you ☺️

[distant mulch]

Applied mosaic to avoid having ppl going to the links

[spice dagger]

@distant mulch This is not the channel to bring this up in.

If you have an issue with another Member, DM a Moderator and discuss it privately.

[distant mulch]

Aight
Sry bout that

[lavish lagoon]

I have an interview coming up where I will be required to do an art test. The role is focused on general visualization with the engine. Has anyone undergone one of these before? What should I expect them to test?

[astral brook]

Hi. In what Industry, for what role?

[flat gazelle]

<@&213101288538374145>

[gloomy heath]

Hey guys , i just get sucked from my job , is there anyone who developing game for ue4 , can i join and help ? For free. I am Junior , and only want to learn and get some experience

[lavish lagoon]

Industry is a cross between archviz and game dev--its for a 'metaverse' type product. Role is a visualization artist

[pastel estuary]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSxBl2BYihA

[formal quiver]

Would $20/h be a good fee for a short animation

[brisk topaz]

Depends on what you think your time is worse and how much you need the money.

[pastel estuary]

@chrome arrow job-offers/requests only go in the dedicated channels. read #instructions on how to do so.

[nova tartan]

I consider minimum living wage to be somewhere around 20$/hour (in north america)
and then the fact that this is not permanent employment would bump it up at least 50%
so I would charge 30$/h
of course, I say this as someone who has comfortable savings and doesn't need more work

[chrome arrow]

Great, thanks, DM my portfolio to Manny. Allow me to rephrase: I need work. I have 10+ years combined in web and mobile front and backend, including AR, hand-tracking, gesture recognition, iPad kiosks and Flash-based touchscreens- even robotics, PLCs, and motion control. I'm new to UE: I've completed 6mo of private contract work and over a hundred courses on the learning portal, and a couple outside courses re:blueprint and re:multiplayer. I don't need to start as a junior nor as a senior. My work has all been private. Even though I've been coding since eleven, I don't have a lot I can actually show for it. My estimation of my situation and the game industry scene is that short of producing and distributing my own game as a portfolio piece, no triple-A studio is going to give me a second glance. Am I wrong? Is there an easier way to demonstrate my skills? Where should I be looking to get my start in the industry?

[pastel estuary]

I cant say much about portfolios when it comes to coding, but making small but useful code/tech stuff for the engine and showing it off on twitter, linkedin, and reddit (to name a few) should easily get some eyes on you. your resume should speak for itself, as even though you cant show some of your work, you can describe it in detail on your resume.
Ive seen people getting job offers from AAA people because they really liked what they saw in a tweet/reddit/yada.

[chrome arrow]

Small but useful I can do

I'm going to make your reply my desktop image for a little while...

[shut token]

I've never been that active on social media sites, I started being more active more recently, doin' twitter and Youtube and Reddit. Ended up getting a couple gigs off that alone. (This wasn't in Godot however, a different game engine). Can definitely second Luos advice of pretty much just "get something out there"

[pastel estuary]

one can show one massive project, but odds are in big projects that the stuff that isnt as good overshadows the really good stuff.
so yea, small and useful is generally the way to go, its easier to get the sense of accomplishments, and if its small, a short gif or short excerpt of what it does can sell the whole thing.

i.e. things that speed up workflow, a feature that make people realize "omg, I didnt even know how much i needed this", that sorta thing.

[chrome arrow]

Modularity is success, and I wasn't thinking like this. Thank you for your reply.

[pastel estuary]

I hope it works for you, and if you post something ue4/gamedev related on twitter, let me know. I like rt-ing awesomesauce :)

[chrome arrow]

Will do, thank you! That will be super helpful.

[chilly sundial]

What are some tips for marketing a game for an indie team, we have plans of posting down the correct routes on reddit, twitter etc and making some devlogs on youtube, but how do you try to get eyes on a game from nothing. Do you let the game speak for itself, or is there anything else you can do outside of social media that wouldnt cost insane amounts of money

[fickle hatch]

Find the streamers and youtubers, even small ones, who are interested in the similar subject matter. If possible, get someone with real marketing experience. They will help to get most visibility in most relevant places. Need to get a momentum going before the people speak about the game.

[chilly sundial]

That makes sense, we will release into early access so that could be a good time to try abd get some people playing it that have an audience, as well as showing we are actively caring about the community and working on the game

I mean even if we dint get much out of it, id still say it would be worth it for the experience

[astral brook]

Hi guys, anyone able to reccomend a good accountant for my micro-enterprise in France? I live in Alsace now but move around a lot so finding someone nearby isn't my top priority. Tax was enough of a pain when I was dealing with a system that spoke my native language 😵

[gloomy heath]

Hi guys , can someone give me an advice , i am learning ue4 for about a year , self thought . How can i get experience so i can apply for a real job , i just got kicked from my internship , because lack of experience , so how the fuck to get an experience if nobody wants to deal with juniors ?

[shadow elm]

build something and make your own experience

[pure kettle]

By getting an experience, hehehehe XD

And the kicker is, you have to have experience to get experience xD

We all start somewhere, but not many companies willing to offer themselves to teach new leaf without said internship (and some would let it unpaid)

[oblique ice]

that great, i got my job even before i was start my study O___o

[finite fern]

I haven't got a job yet sadly

Like in the video game industry

But been working on some solo projects

[pure kettle]

Game jams could be a good way to stack up portfolio.
(just don't choose the competitive one unless you know what you're doing)

[finite fern]

I feel like there are times i know what im doing then theres im doing something and its working

But do you know any going on this month?

[pure kettle]

https://itch.io/jams
Pick your poison 😉

[finite fern]

thank you!

[long island]

Hey all! I am new to the Discord, but wanted to introduce myself. I have more than 6 years of experience Recruiting Senior Software Engineers, including Faang industry experience. I'm not looking to solicit here, but I did want to extend an invitation to anyone who may be interested in picking my brain. Feel free to DM and I will be happy to respond when I am able!

[misty knot]

Welcome welcome!

What're you currently busy with

[open condor]

Hello, found this discord by way of another Dev. I'm just humbly trying to make my game. Just got on UE a few months ago and I have more progress than I did with an older engine. Hope to get this finished soon, and get it to people.

and if I can get some time, I hope there is no mind for me asking dumb questions. still a little new at this.

[copper walrus]

No question is a dumb question

[open condor]

I thought this was a general chat and hello area. Just showed up and already flubbed. Welp here we go

[green oyster]

no that would be #introductions

[plucky hatch]

am i the only person who wants a career in the AAA game industry or no??

i am asking because... well. im at a point where I really want to find industry work. just graduated in the fall of 2020 with a BS in CS. im halfway between being set on game industry work or software engineering. i dont feel like getting that game industry SWE job is too easy (or possible) for myself at this point in time and ive really grown to like my major since 2020, but t remains to be seen whether even getting into the industry is going to happen.

[flat gazelle]

No, it's more that this server attracts hobbyists without a real career plan which then develops into "I want to make a game" and defaulting to indie. Which is perfectly fine, but it skews the view here a bit. There are people from AAA here, but most don't say much.

[flat gazelle]

And you decided you didn't want pay? ;P

[dense phoenix]

maybe didn't need pay

rubbing money on your head only relieves so much stress

[harsh brook]

I prefer AAA personally, though everytime I've quoted my salary to indie they give up recruitment efforts.

[plucky hatch]

Sorry if I ask here, but I wanna find out more about the "business side" of handling a game - from being the "developer/publisher" to publishing it on steam - setting up a corporation, taxation and all that - is there any good reference material for this?

It would be our first game and we are absolute indie dev, with no real funding or big publishers behind us

[vague oriole]

What do you mean by this?

[shut token]

That it's not all about the money.

[dense phoenix]

its another way of saying "money does not buy happiness" except im not saying that

[pure kettle]

But money can buy happiness
If you're in a shitty long term situation, you can pay your way out of there

[dense phoenix]

except im not saying that

[nova tartan]

http://www.starcomnexus.com/what-goes-into-making-a-game-besides-the-game/
here's a checklist I've had bookmarked for a while

it's not all the business side of things but it covers a lot of stuff you might not think about

also getting recruitment messages from people offering 80k a year for a senior dev is tiring

[fringe gull]

hey not all AAA studios pay programmers 40k, i think epic gives you at least 50 if u have 10YOE

[flat gazelle]

I mean, it varies. I'm just an artist but if I stay in Sweden, I'd have to move to the finance industry to maintain my salary.

[royal lintel]

High pay and good working conditions exist. It's just very few and far between - either gotta be super lucky or at the top of your field (and know how to leverage that) or both.

[fringe gull]

"those damn FAANG recruiters taking our good engineers with their...
....300k tc... "

a worker owned studio would be cool tho

[sage vigil]

Hey guys,i am trying to come up with a topic for my final year project ,the topic should be something new and which is do able ,so can anyone suggest any topics

[hexed shuttle]

how do you post in contract-jobs?

[vagrant bramble]

:triangular_flag_on_post: tomoya#2929 received strike 1. As a result, they were muted for 10 minutes.

[tidal moth]

haha that's on the level of pawn stars

[flat gazelle]

#animation

[pure kettle]

If it's restricted by NDA, ask your coworker who know more about it (if any)

[plucky hatch]

@flat gazelle ty

[junior sluice]

Hey everyone, I'm looking for advice.

I've been trying to help my brother Ryan (CS/Digital Art double major at UF) find a summer internship as an artist/technical artist/animator in a game development company and I'd love advice on where to look. We've been doing the usual LinkedIn hustle + applications. Here's his ArtStation if anyone is interested https://www.artstation.com/ryan_menke. Any recommendations on places to look/hang out in search of a summer internship?

[minor saffron]

Hi tech artist here, generally tech artist internships are hard to find but not impossible. Had a quick look through the portfolio but it all seems to be art? There's no examples of tech art or animation if that's something he wants to be hired for. I would say game dev meetups would be a good chance to meet those already working in the industry and wanting to hire - especially small companies who typically don't advertise online.

[junior sluice]

Thanks @minor saffron I’ll pass that along. He has 2 SWE internships under his belt and some game jam games completed so I think he has the chops for it. Will look into the meetup angle as well.

[plucky hatch]

Any idea where I can hire someone for 2d space map art like this?

[ruby relic]

what are commonly used algorithms and data structures in games which one should know for a interview?

[steady pewter]

Look at any open source game of interest.

[ruby relic]

lets say you are in hurry and immediately need some info.

[round radish]

When a friend had an interview with google, they asked to him write sorting algorithms from memory. Shrug

It shows you've learned things.

[steady pewter]

You learned that, but likely you have no idea how to setup a CI for a project. Next!

[steady pewter]

I hate it so much, but the truth is, I'm very good at it. Then everyone starts to notice...

So, I no longer do it.

Yeah, I chose different, but yours is not bad motive at all.

[narrow girder]

Does anyone have solid intermediate game dev courses that go over higher level thought processes behind making games? Im willing to pay for courses if necessary, but Im looking to learn from someone who ships games and knows some industry standards.

I understand basic blue prints, C++, and engine functionality. Just started getting into replication for multiplayer and having good success with a friend, but was hoping to also work on some side projects through means of a course or college class.

[rugged spire]

hey guys, anyone knows how could I post a job offer here ?

[narrow girder]

#instructions has it I believe

[rugged spire]

thanks 😃

[shut token]

https://courses.tomlooman.com/p/unrealengine-cpp?coupon_code=COMMUNITY15

Tom Looman is a beast

[narrow girder]

I use his project to learn and even tried some of his older courses, but he doesnt really teach so much as show you how to accomplish point a - b

Im looking for more of a taught atmosphere where I can ask questions about something and get an answer in minutes if not seconds vs waiting 3 weeks for a reply

[shut token]

Sounds like you're looking for a tutor or a university. Not something an online course really does.

And I felt that Tom taught perfectly well and covered some tricks as well. To each their own I guess.

[steady pewter]

Not sure there is such enviro for coders. There are many tutors for some kind of art which lead online courses, but have dedicated Q & A sessions.

[plucky hatch]

i agree 100%

bubblesort is supreme. cannot get better than O(N^2) lmao

[narrow girder]

How do all current game devs learn? Because youtube is missing a lot of basics, and wikis dont teach you proper ways to comment, organize, plan, etc.

[steady pewter]

game dev is interdisciplinary field nowadays. If you look for indie i.e. one person doing many things, you better look one of their "sharing my experience" videos.

Or get in contact or... you know, many things.

Choose what you are interested in, find such people, get in contact <- algorithm.

[craggy nacelle]

This is general software development stuff. Same principles apply, so you can learn good habits from general programming books such as Pragmatic Programmer and what have you

[narrow girder]

Ty all 🙂

[hollow cipher]

Evenin all. I 've sort of been sort of struggling since finishing uni, and Im not really sure how to stop myself sort of "falling behind", as it were? Like, I can start projects to explore stuff like making modular environment chunks, but I'm worried im spending too much time on stuff, and without a provided structure/feedback from other, I feel kinda aimless, just puttering in hopes it`ll pay dividends later. Can anyone relate, or perhaps give advice on that? I've been keeping an eye out for opportunities, but there's been precious few, and unfortunately I've had 0 luck

[steel creek]

if you want a more focused time period, perhaps join a gamejam or two. That will allow you to practice your skill, in a team setting, with an actual goal, and give you more material to present to employers as "completed" works

[hollow cipher]

Thats a good idea

i`ll try #game-jam-lfg

[pure kettle]

I personally learn from modding games and self taught from C++ programming literatures.

[narrow girder]

From people who've shipped a successful game, what is the best advice you can give for learning how to game dev? I find myself constantly restarting projects because I "Learned something new", but I'm sure there's a best practice step by step way to learn how to build a working project.

For my example I am looking to simply do some solid mulitplayer shooter that runs on a dedicated server. In doing so, I've had to redo code over and over due to not understanding some things. For example, Dedicated servers don't run anim bps.

I've done some of the udemy courses but they feel extremely limited in scope, like they are just how to A to B project design. I'm looking for a more finished and fully encompassing course that teaches real nitty gritty mechanics for what a game would truly require.

[pure kettle]

Consider scaling down the scope.
You don't have to do dedicated server multiplayer stuff, because it's far more complicated than having LAN/local multiplayer, or even making single player games.

[lusty turtle]

I am not shipped, but reflecting on my UE4 adventures from 2018 to now I did something similar, burned through a whole bunch of one-note projects.

In my case, it was because I was trying to understand one particular functionality. Sprinting, Rotation, Components, Interactions, etc.

Once you've capped out on a particular mechanic/functionality and got it working (even if it's shaky, just so long as it works sort of like you want it to) the story of that project is done.

Way I see it is that it's not a loss just because it didn't become a shipped product, so long as you keep your old project files they serve you as reference material. To either reflect or expand upon.

[pure kettle]

It would be better if you start from single player games first, because you just have to worry about the gameplay and assets done first, not worrying about net replication.

[halcyon viper]

Hi, I think the key to learning is just doing. Start with simple projects, read, ask questions when you hit walls and just keep throwing yourself back up on that horse till you wake up one day and you realize you're a game dev.

[round radish]

Just don't start with a SP game that you want to make MP, the design can be very, very different and converting from one to the other is a painful process if you aren't familiar with MP best practises.

[narrow girder]

Thanks for the input, everyone. But yeah what deakesh is saying... I WANT to learn multiplayer. I can't make a whole game in singelplayer then click a button and its multiplayer. I also am not having issues learning new things through trial and error, I'm just seeing if theres a much broader and more advanced scope of tutorials. Trying to jump from the blue print tutorial that shows me how to shoot a gun to multiplayer was a huge leap and felt very random at times.

If this is considered cutting edge, meaning no one else is doing it, then I will have to keep trial and erroring it. However, I get the feeling its not.

[round radish]

Are you using c++ or BP for MP?

[narrow girder]

Both

Im ok with C++, just had some coaching from a good friend on how UE does its coding which helped a ton

Well actually my first project was fully blueprint but I spent a lot of time looking at networked code that did the same thing

Im ok with this, because itll be easier to rethink for example how to get muzzle point in an offset faster if im still learning than being set in my ways to always rely on the animbp there.

To put this in perspective i've been doing this for about 6 months and restarted maybe 20+ projects

Usually things like going from blueprint weapons (learned on youtube) to finding out about data assets

[pure kettle]

The point of learning single player first, even without giving a damn about net replication first, is to get your knowledge on what goes into building gameplay. Of course there are incentives to learn net replications, from single player replay system, to local/LAN multiplayer.

Going for dedicated server setup, however, is a huge reach, as it involves building engine from source to get dedicated server for shipping, and not to mention different treatment to the server side, as you cannot trust client do something detrimental to gameplay. At least with local MP or just player would mean you only have to worry about getting a working netcode/replication.

[narrow girder]

I get where you are coming from, but that's why im asking if there's larger scope finished projects to learn off of like I learned a lot about AI from robo recall. It was an amazing source and brought a lot of good practices at least it would seem for handling AI. There has to be something like that for dedicated servers. I feel like the shooter game project is so limited in scope it misses how to make an actual game.

I want to start pushing myself into harder projects such as dedicated multiplayer, but I want to make sure im doing it in an efficient way

[bright wing]

@narrow girder a suggestion for a shortcut for you: check out “game programming patterns” book. It has free online version and it is great resource to learn underlying principles using which you can pretty much build anything

[narrow girder]

Will do, thanks! 😄

[bright wing]

Rather than piecing together the same info from 100s of tutorials

And what I liked the most about it is that it’s concise and to the point

[narrow girder]

This is definitely a piece of what im looking for, much appreciated!

[oblique ice]

I also make Single Player, i'm not smart to make multiplayer

[misty knot]

Well I had an actual game designer critique my game today and it was humbling to say the least

But hopefully itll make me a better designer 🦾

[craggy nacelle]

I wonder what someone like that would say about my game

one small indie dev did tell me multiple times "scope creep"

lol

[steady pewter]

sigh

[misty knot]

He didnt even say too much about the game as just questioned me about how I made some choices and how much testing I have done

And made me realise I really need to have people playtesting this game

Its pretty cool he worked on batman asylum

[patent mountain]

alright

should i stay or should i go

serious question

i only trust strangers to make my mind up for me

stay current job (which has been frustrating but is the known, and its honestly something i can do, and have gradual pay boost) or go (new vr job, which also something i can potentially do and learn from and have immediate pay boost)

i spend most of my time in VR gaming after work so it seems like a perfect decisions to go

but at the same time what if

working on a vr game is not the same as

getting off work and playing vr right

why are life decisions so hard

why do they pay engineers so much money

obviously im grateful they do

[steel creek]

https://tenor.com/view/go-planet-of-the-apes-जा-gif-4833567

[patent mountain]

advice i can trust

[steel creek]

because as much as people want to believe they are all experts, expertise is actually rewarded.

[steel creek]

tell me how its wrong

[patent mountain]

its not, minecraft is a great game, i actually enjoy the survival mode

my daughter only wants to play creative though 😢

[steel creek]

creation already has a lot of adversity built in for some

[misty knot]

Playing a game is never the same as making but that doesn't mean it can be as fun/more fun to make

To quote troy baker

You can hate

Or you can create

[flat gazelle]

Making a game as a job however is that. A job.

Figure out if you want a new hobby´or if you are able to dedicate yourself to it enough to make it a job.

So many parts of gamemaking is not fun.

[misty knot]

That's true, but you're gonna have a job either way right (most people 😅)

But yeah you ofcourse have to consider the bad sides of any job

And if those are acceptable for you

[flat gazelle]

Sure, but going into VR as a means to support oneself without the experience to do it will make it a hard job with an unlikely salary.

[patent mountain]

yeah i have the experience somewhat, i did a lot of personal projects in it, plus more freelance work..

[flat gazelle]

Right!

So you've shipped a few games, know the nuts and bolts of running a company, funding etc?

If so, then as soon as you secure funding, go for it

[patent mountain]

i think thats step 3 sir

im still on step 2, deciding between 2 jobs lol

[flat gazelle]

Ah, you got a studio offer?

[patent mountain]

yeah

i currently work at a studio doing unreal pixel streaming, and the switch would be to unreal vr gaming

[flat gazelle]

I see, I thought you were going to start a studio on your own.

[patent mountain]

not yet ™️

[flat gazelle]

Then go for it. If it seems more fun. Go nuts

[patent mountain]

yeah, right, i think everyone is pointing out the obvious

can't be scared of change

i appreciate it

[supple wadi]

its not the same

gamedev gets annoying

but if you truly like it then you will enjoy these parts

because once you solve the problem you learn and it feels so good

[supple wadi]

what i would suggest doing

if you are broke right now

work a little longer and save some money to invest it

doesnt have to be stocks

most people default to stocks when they hear invest

but rental properties, flipping, etc all good side hustles to make some cash

if you are not broke (dont have important expenses that your job income solely supports)

and you hate your job

then id suggest finding another job or work slightly longer until you can spend up to 50% of your bank balance and still be fine for at least a few months

because that time off should be used to find another source of income whatever that may be

if you dont have a source of income that can be depended on for at least some time then you will have a problem

because in that time you would need to find a new job/source of income/another way to make a living

and if no money coming in and youre burning through what you have, well you know how that goes

[patent mountain]

no i make really good money as a dev, im basically laughing at the fact im complaining about how much money jobs offer us and how hard it is to make a decision based on that

i do have investments too, rental, and ive earned a crap ton of money on stocks and blown a crap ton in the end stocks have just evened out for me, especially since i got into day trading (dont get into day trading)

ive worked years on my own games as well, i love game dev

i remember people calling me to go hang out and im like

no thanks, im devving

ill drink and dev alone if i must, in the end it payed off, i didnt make any money off my games, but i got some really good jobs

thank uncle Tim for Unreal engine

anyways yeah im gonna move on to the new job

im currently in a more management position at my current job, and its really easy, its easy to just stay and make easy money, but its not satisfying, its not what i want to be doing which is developing

but i think growing ,facing challenges, and being compensated for that

is a better option

especially if one dreams of having a game studio one day, the different things i will learn from being in a different environment

[main wharf]

Ya'll know paragraphs exist right? Like you can type and not hit enter. This is so difficult to follow. xD

[steel creek]

https://tenor.com/view/reading-gif-7572577

[plucky hatch]

man i wish i could just start my career in industry. its so hard to find open entry level positions anywhere. let alone those i feel qualified for.

[patent mountain]

send me your curriculum

dm me...

[patent mountain]

nah ive got to hit enter after every emotion

is written

[main wharf]

This is sounding very close to spam now :p

[plucky hatch]

alright then

[craggy nacelle]

I don't know what your case is but I'm seeing a lot of people complain about it in general in tech... and turns out they're basically just applying at Google and Facebook and nowhere else

or they send 100 copypaste applications without any kind of effort

It's worth looking for smaller companies besides the well known ones, and usually if you want better chances it's good to work out how to tailor your application for the job

similarly, feeling underqualified - most people seem to think programming jobs require much more knowledge than they actually do. Entry level stuff tend to just mean you need to be able to work on basic stuff and then if you get stuck at least have a basic idea on how to start figuring it out

[narrow girder]

Whats the best way to get in touch with Epic's hiring team? So far I've only found the ability to apply for a specific position

[barren lotus]

Maybe connecting with recruiters / hiring managers on LinkedIn or https://twitter.com/epictalent

Life at Epic (@epictalent)

Interested to know what life is like at Epic Games? Follow us and we’ll tell you all about our Epic family and what life is like for employees!

Tweets

1691

Followers

35574

Twitter

[polar coyote]

Hi regarding NDAs and contract work:, I am just a hobbyist and have been progressing on my game. I have hired someone to extend my game and polished some existing blueprint assets for me. Do I really need an NDA? In the NDA, should I include that the contractor should not use or reproduce the assets I gave him or is that on another contract? I just do not want to be involved in anything illegal or get some headaches even though I am just a hobbyist. Thank you

[ashen lynx]

Do I really need an NDA? No

[pure kettle]

I personally have NDA enforced in my project, even though I'm the one who mostly work on majority of the project. With the NDA, I limit contractors to not use the assets in other project, and not to spoil any copyrighted materials/source code in the project to public or other projects without my permission/consent.

But in general, enforcing NDA is not required, but you can do it if you want to.

[polar coyote]

thanks for the tip. The more and more stuff I add to my project, more assets integrated (mostly blueprint stuff), the more I am scared sending the entire project. So usually I just chop down the project with less assets or added logic. But yeah it makes it more complicated than sending the entire project.

though from exp, devs that I have asked to helped me are trust worthy and highly skilled to even check out the assets for their benefit. hehe

[narrow vigil]

Is there any chance you could give some examples of "entry level stuff" people would have to know? Specifically geared toward some sort of game/engine dev intern. I definitely struggle with imposter syndrome. I've solo completed about 9 game jams but I definitely don't feel qualified to apply for any positions

When you say have someone experienced look it over I'm assuming you are talking about the actual code quality? Cause if so my next project is looking through my old laptop 😄

Honestly that is amazing feedback and I very much appreciate it. Reading a lot of the applications makes it sounds like you have to be extremely qualified and know exactly what you are doing, which I've been programming for about 3 years(only recently getting much more serious) but google constantly my best friend

[plucky hatch]

Honestly I've done exactly opposite to everything youve said here. I only applied a jobs I feel qualify for. I tailor my applications to each job which is a massive p i t a. I don't just apply to Facebook or Google I don't even want to work at Facebook or Google. Still nobody wants to hire me... Or at least thus far

[oblique ice]

i once had the supervisor role before, was never in my contract too, had to tell them to rechange the contract

[serene lava]

Tbh, I’ve personally (big emphasis on personal experience) found applying to jobs to be a complete waste of my time. It took me awhile to land the job I have now because I lost so much time trying to build up portfolio pieces and burning out from applying to studios, and hearing nothing back. I’ve found just talking to people at the company / studio, or just sharing my personal work around various circles is all that’s needed. No cover letter. No resume. One of the biggest pieces of advice I can give is to build up confidence in your skills, and be able to market yourself hard. Your work should speak for itself, but you as a person need to advocate for the additional benefits you bring to a team. I actually laughed at the job description because I had maybe 30-40% of the requirements of a Technical Director? Yet here I am. Just my experience, and everyone’s will be different. I don’t think I could ever apply to a job again 😂 At this point I just politely decline offers. Which leads to my last point. I hate how many offers suddenly appear now that I am a TD (just how it works). My skills haven’t changed, but my title and studio instantly gave me a spotlight.

[royal lintel]

On that last point - I think that's true pretty much across the board. Title and where you've worked is the single most important thing to recruiters simply because it's easy to quantify. They can glance at a resume, say "I know that company" and "I know what that title means", as opposed to actually having to look closer at what you've done. It might not get you through the full process but it at least gets your foot in the door.
Which unfortunately is not helpful whatsoever with someone just trying to break in.

[granite solar]

As someone also trying to get into the industry, this matches up to my experience. First (and only ) interview I got was with a small indie studio. I always make an effort to tailor application+cover letter to match the job/studio I apply for as well.

[serene lava]

Absolutely. Break in by putting your name out there. Quality over quantity for portfolio work. Market yourself. That’s my TLDR version.

[flat gazelle]

Is it really common for companies to have pre filters for applications?

In the places I've been hiring, we've always used a platform like Teamtailor where the application ends up in my inbox at the same time as the HR.

[royal lintel]

I'd expect it really depends on the size of the company

[ashen lynx]

Sadly yes, Glad.

[flat gazelle]

I mean I hired for Ubisoft. They're pretty big

[flat gazelle]

Is it a programmer thing?

I would not take kindly to anyone filtering my applicants before I see the portfolio.

[royal lintel]

I guess I should rephrase - hiring managers likely have access to applications at most companies regardless of size but I'd expect very few to review applicants that haven't been screened yet at larger/more well known companies.

That you look at all of your applicants is probably a good thing, but not scalable for some studios.

[ashen lynx]

Yes.

[royal lintel]

And yeah, I'm mostly talking from an engineering perspective. Can't really speak for art/design POV.

[flat gazelle]

Gotcha

[royal lintel]

I can definitely see why art would be something you want to review personally.

[ashen lynx]

I have never seen HR doing half decent job on screening applicants so far.

[plucky hatch]

I'm writing a wiki of math and started to wonder. I'm seeing some TEDx about teaching math. I began to wonder if that could be another way to think about games. I have no experience with professional games and even less with making a small games and now I'm writing about math. Maybe I could shift my focus to educational games?

[ashen lynx]

It is worth only if you adore the process.

[oblique ice]

i had mates that went to MDS before

[ashen lynx]

@tender thunder be specific. Where do you live, how does your portfolio look like as it is now ?

[ashen lynx]

There is sufficient job openings in Germany, but from your description so far, it is likely not a good occupation for you. @tender thunder

[gentle stone]

If you are thinking of studying at Hochschule Trier, intermedia design, I don't recommend it. By far the most art students there end up dabbling in everything, not specialising in anything and also wasting their time and others on student projects that don't push you beyond your limits since strictness and requirements are not a thing.
The only students I see thrive are those pushing through by their own merits and will; those that don't shy away from challenges and likely haven't done so even before the start of their university degrees.

If you legitimately think 3D art is the only thing that's interesting go for it, but then you really need to go hard.

[flat gazelle]

Join any of the art discords, get feedback, practice.

That's basically the steps needed.

Internships don't really happen unless you attend a schhool.

You only really need to go school if you are after a degree for visa sake.

[serene lava]

As Herr mentioned, a lot of success from students at these art schools are successful because of their own self drive and ambition to go far beyond that of the provided curriculum. I went to university and made a lot of good connections, had a great time, but what I learned was minimal at best. I largely taught myself everything. However, I did also minor in business and those skills have been extremely beneficial to me both in my current position and for whenever I freelance.

[gentle stone]

private game dev schools in Germany are, in my experience, 100% useless. They extract a ton of money from you, teachers are not professionals partaking in AAA (or AA) and are simply speaking people who didn't make the cut.
Good private schools exist but to my knowledge they can't be found in Germany.

Personally I studied CS at Hochschule Trier, which has more concrete and tough requirements (compared to the art side there), but it mostly wasn't game specific. Uni did teach me many things but nothing about what I regularly do at work, so I agree with Will there.
That was self-taught through the framework uni provided; i.e., I invested 1.5 years almost exclusively in student projects in Unreal Engine, which were self organized and without guidance.
That's also what I believe uni is good at; providing a framework to make contacts, push yourself in projects and so on.
But "getting the degree" by itself won't help you much (outside of visa related things like Partikel said)

[gentle stone]

the only thing making you become a good 3D artist is persistent 3D art practice and curiosity for the unknown, imo
some luck to find the right people that help you grow, be it equals or mentors, or the right job offer, plays a part too.

If you are from Rhineland-Palatine, have you considered Hochschule Trier at all? While I don't think the culture at the art side of things is helping people, it does give you room to grow on your own (just don't let yourself get sucked in by the idea that what profs & students are content doing is what you need to succeed), and it's very affordable.
Not saying it's a great option, but it might be one of the best options you have and you do get a Bachelor of Arts at the end of it, for what it's worth

[lusty turtle]

In regards to what you make, generally people specialize in something like hard surface (props, weapons, vehicles, etc - anything non-organic & ), characters, creatures, etc.

It sounds like you already have the foundations of hard surface if you're making firearms.

Characters & Creatures tend to co-exist in the same portfolio as human and (especially vertebrate) animal anatomy tend to overlap so strongly. "Organic" is the term used for pairing them together.

In 3D world it's rarer for hard surface and organic to live together like this.

Me, I'm more familiar with Characters & Creatures (proficient with creatures, on the cusp of reliable characters) but hard surface is outside of my comfort zone.

2D illustration (ala poster & cover art) is where you would be professionally expected to handle all different kinds of assets.

[lusty turtle]

Digital sculpting is what you want to look into for making organic objects, even if you don't have access to Zbrush (the gold standard of digital sculpting tools), Blender's tool kit will take you far if you think of the base cube/sphere as a "Ball of magic clay" rather than something you exactly plan out.

Vehicles can also benefit from sculpting stuff since the bodies of cars tend to have that beveled, quasi-organic look.

[lusty turtle]

Ultimate(?) question:

Do you wanna make original things, or take a reference (concept art, photos mostly) and recreate it as faithfully as possible?

Also, are you more interested in realism? Or stylization?

I'll freely admit this is just for curiosity's sake rather than as a lead-in for suggestions. I lean towards more realistic appearances and prefer making muh fursonas UwU original characters & creatures.

(OK, srs now)

Probably also the reason why I'm always so finicky when I make some model. I just want it to be perfect, look at what I did and be proud. It just doesn't always work out. I still have much to learn in terms of tools, tricks and methods.

Perfectionism is the driver of growth and the cause of all our problems.

It drives us to improve but can also stall you if you're taking on something about your usual skill level, driving you to fatigue. Something that has helped me learn to let go asking myself "Is anyone really going to look that close?"

Some also call it "Petting the painting" when you overwork a project.

[tidal moth]

in terms of games, there is no perfect. everything comes at a cost, so everything is a tradeoff. just like any art, the importance is knowing where you have to focus and where you can skimp on details

it's not just about vertices

it's about workflow

you don't want to spend 3 days making a texture that is visible for maybe 2 seconds in the distance of some cutscene

it's about how much time you spend on those things. one thing is if you can work to a spec. another is how long it takes you

in either case I'd sit down and try to make a portfolio piece. maybe even give yourself a due date. it's going to give you the experience of thinking about these processes

[gentle stone]

Everyone in the industry is figuring out new stuff on the daily, more or less.
Sure, there is a baseline that we can use to identify general skill, but no one knows all the things and everybody evolves.
Don't stress being capable as much as becoming capable.

[flat gazelle]

Again: #career-chat message

[ashen lynx]

@tender thunderIt is pretty clear from you narrative, that you expect to be educated rather than reaching to be knowledge yourself. That is not going to work.
School won't carry you through. Internship won't either.
Multiply all that by a fact that 3d artist in games is a pretty underpaid job and if you don't completely live your dream doing 3d art for games, you will suffer working there and will withdraw shortly, even if you land a decent job.
That is without all the sugar coating.

[steady pewter]

You sound pretty unconfident in your abilities. Kinda normal. You need more action, not talks.

I don't know a person who really "can", there are always gaps. They move forward tho.

[ashen lynx]

Show it to relevant persons. Get feedback, re-iterate and repeat.

That is all there is.

There is no proper way.

There are suboptimal ways, but these will be highlighted to you in feedback cycles.

Provided if you do these, of course.

[flat gazelle]

Dinusty or experience points would probably be better starting point.

Or flipped normals

There are tons

[ashen lynx]

Polycount is dead these days yeah ?

[gentle stone]

<@&213101288538374145>

[vagrant bramble]

:no_entry_sign: テレッサ (Teressa)#1446 was banned.

[serene prawn]

Man how does one get a decent game programmer job with UE without prior formal experience with Unreal and C++... I've been in and around gamedev for 10+ years, and generally coding since childhood, so I know enough, and I really want to switch to UE, but so far I'm getting either no reply or quick rejects without interview even for "UI programmer" roles. It's a bit frustrating. I know that ultimately it's all about how I "sell myself", but I'm starting to wonder how "elitist" UE professional community is and what would be important to attract an employer in my situation. Do I need some hobby game showcase portfolio or something?

[pure kettle]

I can't speak for anyone, but I think it's safe to assume it isn't limited to so called "UE pro community".

[chilly sundial]

I mean without professional experience you probably arent gonna land any decent roles. A portfolio of work would probably help to showcase your skills

[pure kettle]

Also some people said that "past studio experience" do contribute on higher chance privilege, particularly with programmers.
So, I'd say there's a loop against "someone's gotta start somewhere".

[serene prawn]

This is something I don't really understand. Surely a good programmer with years of experience with e.g. Unity would be able to work with UE just fine. Well at least I'd consider them for an interview.

[chilly sundial]

Working as a hobbyist vs professionally is very different though

[serene prawn]

Are we walking about working professionally in general or with UE specifically? Because I was employed as an actual game developer for years, just not with Unreal.

[pure kettle]

I personally won't thought of that, in particular with senior positions. Some of Unity's stuff is incompatible with Unreal's paradigms, and wasting time reorienting one in higher positions often isn't worth it.

[serene prawn]

In my mind, programmer's mind is flexible enough to switch paradigms, especially if they want it themselves...

Yes, UE is very different in some aspects, but it's not exactly rocket science...

[chilly sundial]

In that case its different, if you have been employed in gamedev and have portfolio, you have a much better chance, from what i have gathered though its a hard industry to get into anyway

[pure kettle]

I do still believe some studios could give some slack in lower positions, or if they're smaller studios and doesn't mind orienting themselves with Unreal's way of doing things.

[pure kettle]

Well, in that case, you may have the higher chance privilege, depending on previous studio you used to work with.

It's just that many people from chat log above said that portfolio matters more when it comes to art/asset creation positions, compared to programming positions.

[serene prawn]

It's harder to come up with a "programmer portfolio" for a different tech tho. I do have some code for my small hobby project, but I'm just a programmer and the actual game is so far from a "showcaseable" state, since even with marketplace assets I need some game and level design.

[serene crystal]

Honestly just making one little feature fleshed out would be nice enough for a portfolio, wouldn't it?

[pure kettle]

Or game jams.

I don't think companies dismiss good game jam prods

[serene prawn]

maybe i should try finding an unity position in company that uses both unity and unreal and try migrating internally, lol

but meh i don't really want to mess with unity anymore

[pure kettle]

Consider that Epic Games Launcher is a UE4 app, but it's just Core and Slate.

[chilly sundial]

Now thats meta, use the engine to make the app that launches the engine

[steel creek]

You dont need a game or product to show your actual engineering skills. You need engineering work, even if its pieces of systems or tools. I wont hire someone to do engineering where I cant see any of the work.

[languid atlas]

Huh

[cerulean haven]

Hey. I have a question. Do you charge extra if client wants project files instead of only final build?

[steel creek]

[fickle hatch]

Yes. I mean, the question is kind of goofy, but "delivering a shipping build" vs "delivering the entire project" are two different scopes

And if the contract says deliver a shipping build, then you deliver a build. But I can't imagine a sufficiently large project where you would be contracted to work on the entire thing like that and not some part of it

[serene prawn]

I agree, it's good to actually see some code. But it's just not always there when a person is switching techs or even when they aren't - it might be that their previous work belongs to previous employer. Isn't this a situation where a testing task could be appropriate?

[serene prawn]

Exactly.

[hollow cipher]

As a junior artist, how much should I be asking for per hour in pound sterling? I know minimum wage is 10, so 15?

[tidal moth]

depends on where you are based, whether the work is freelance etc.

[plucky hatch]

I’m guessing you are in the UK then? You should be able to get more than £15 an hour as a proficient junior. I was on £16.25 an hour when I first started and that was 11 years ago, I was in London however if that makes a difference. Still in the age of working from home that matters less these days.

[hollow cipher]

thank you

[plucky hatch]

I actually have all my rates recorded for the last 10 years of its helpful to you for reference @hollow cipher

[hollow cipher]

100%

until i get an actual job , doing smalltime stuff is all I got to keep me sharp

[plucky hatch]

2010: €130 per day (0 year experience)
2013: €220 per day (3 year experience)
2014: €270 per day (4 year experience)
2016: €400 per day (6 year experience)
2017: €600+ per day (7 years experience)
2019: €900+ per day (9 years experience)

[hollow cipher]

and I wanna make sure im asking for proper amounts

900 euros a day!?

[plucky hatch]

Yes, but you don’t/can’t work everyday

[hollow cipher]

fair

[pastel estuary]

and have 9+ years of experience under your belt.

[plucky hatch]

Also my area of Unreal pays more than games etc

[hollow cipher]

for smaller scale indie stuff I think im gonna have to purposefully lowball just to get a chance in the door.

i admit my portfolio is lackluster atm, even with my masters degree

[plucky hatch]

Well don’t lowball less than the 15 you mentioned

[hollow cipher]

yes

[plucky hatch]

If you are close to minimum wage then what’s the point of all the effort, well don’t worry, I spent 4 years on a three year degree and left with nothing except for £47k of debt 😂🤦‍♂️

[hollow cipher]

yeah

[shut token]

This is the way.

[hollow cipher]

im not giving up obviouslty tho

sorry, what do you mean whats the point of all the effort?

I need to organise my time better, so I can work on portfolio work and side-stuff in tandem

[plucky hatch]

Of doing something like this for a living/hobby, rather than say just working in Tesco and earning almost the same

[hollow cipher]

😟

[plucky hatch]

The start is always the hardest, but practice makes it all better, just have to get over that hump, and like you said work on your portfolio as much as possible.

But I would not sell yourself short, when it comes to charging people.

[hollow cipher]

i can share my portfolio if you'd like

[plucky hatch]

Sure

[hollow cipher]

https://www.artstation.com/nullshade

my main thing atm i wanna work on is doing an example of a modular kit with walls etc as well

since that wuld help show a baseline talent

I'd like to do more stylised, but Im really not in the position to specialise rn this early

[shut token]

Why not?

Become the best stylized person.

Ain't nothin' stoppin' you.

[hollow cipher]

because a lot of the places that hire near me are all realism

[plucky hatch]

That’s not really the work we give to juniors, be prepared for mind numbing boring and repetitive things 😂

You will soon start to soak in the other skills from your peers.

[hollow cipher]

oh?

I mean back in uni i was told, and held onto

if you're told ot make bins

you make the best bins you can

you think about the kind of bins, their functions

[plucky hatch]

Well that’s always a given, but you don’t always get that chance, depends on the office. This week I’ve got all my interns and juniors white boxing things for me and creating some levels before I will swoop in next week to put some sprinkles on to[ and take all the credit 👌

[hollow cipher]

but after i finished Uni i kinda went a bit aimless. Im talking to aardvark swift soon, and keeping an eye out

Hehe

Sounds good

[plucky hatch]

But generally it’s rare to be thrust into AAA production from day 1.

[hollow cipher]

if you wanna look through my portfolio when you get the chance, i'm always open to feedback/thoughts. I really value feedback and critiscm. Dont feel pressured to sorry, i may be going a little ham here

😅

[plucky hatch]

I’ve already looked through it, I think the work is not bad but
-write some descriptions about what tools you used, what it’s about etc etc for every project.
-presentation could do work (project covers)
-I would change the background of Star-saver (the Star map)
-a running theme is that many of the materials are a bit blurry and fuzzy, it might be good to go back and update them.

[hollow cipher]

just to check, project covers, you mean like a thumbnail picture? and for the star saver, change the actual skybox image?

Im not sure what you mean by blurry and fuzzy on the textures as well, sorry

[plucky hatch]

Yes to both, just my opinion

[hollow cipher]

Will do.

Yes, there are a few bits in star-saver i unfortunately had to strip down for time, which is a shame, but that's a very good point, I can go back and fix those.

[plucky hatch]

You can have higher resolution materials.

I know it’s the art style for the first one, but I think the decals on the audio device could also be bumped up

But I’m just nitpicking here, I think it’s enough to get you’re foot in the door but I’d certainly just touch a few things up. Good luck 👍

[hollow cipher]

ah, the rocks werent mine. I need to do something to show what mine are

[plucky hatch]

Aha I see ok, well you need to write that then

[hollow cipher]

Oh no, thank you very much. I really value the feedback

Thats why in later project ones I have specific turnaround vids

[steady pewter]

You guys, sounds like offtopic here. Use #work-in-progress or something where feedback on work is the topic.

[hollow cipher]

yeah the mixer was a fix-up of an older asset , so a lot of it's geometry was sort of borked

Apologies Ryo

[plucky hatch]

Yep no harm on going back to update things to make it more presentable

[hollow cipher]

should we move to #work-in-progress , or is that everything for now?

[plucky hatch]

Ahh sorry I thought it came under general career advice

But yes will move elsewhere

[steady pewter]

Doubt you need to loose time for all that records. I personally think it is fine to leave them here 🤷‍♂️

[plucky hatch]

I just joined 30 mins ago and there are a LOT of channels, I’ll get used to it 😂

[steady pewter]

Enjoy, lol

[pallid palm]

Does anyone here work in virtual production? I'm looking for info on salary ranges. I have game industry resources, but not virtual production.

[still shard]

Alright, preparing for a mid-level Unreal game programmer interview, hit me with your most challenging/memorable game programmer interview questions

[warm abyss]

"What makes you unreal?"

[trim pasture]

Can you program a camera that not only mathematically doesn't really work, but also fucks with most gsm play mechanics we want?

It'll look super cool though

[oblique ice]

how do you make faster your build in VS if don't want to debug in BP in BP editor

[pulsar knoll]

your fantasy in a meta world created by you 🙂

[polar moth]

Reverse solipsism

[plucky hatch]

Hi there is there any groups of people who work on making video games

[chilly sundial]

i mean theres #game-jam-lfg for game jams or #volunteer-projects if you wanna join a professional thing

[royal lintel]

@plucky hatch moving what I was going to say here - that post doesn't mention anything about lower OSI layers. The term "scalability" is mentioned in relation to services, and nothing mentions load-balancing. I'm guessing you were referring to the bit mentioning "multi-server solutions", but that doesn't imply anything about OSI layer. Seeing as the game that studio seems to be developing is an MMO I'd assume they are talking about different game servers managing different sets of players, different load zones, or, if they're doing something more seamless, then something like spatialos or destiny's "bubble" system. Regardless, those are still all the domain of a "game" networking engineer.
I don't know anything about the job or even the studio, but it's not exactly an uncommon job posting for an online game.

Regarding an actual example of an application-level "load balancing" solution, see spatialos. I have no opinion on how good the tech itself is, but it's also not a unique model.

More commonly you'll find games with a sharded model (servers controlling independent instances of the same area) which would also be a form of load balancing - too many players in one area? Spin up a brand new instance independent from the other one. See: most MMOs with some notable exceptions. Also games like Destiny.

[royal lintel]

I don't know if you'll find such precise details the way you want. MMOs are uncommon enough that people who have worked at that level are few and far between. On the other hand it's not hard to extrapolate how these systems work - some games like Runescape let you outright select a server and each server has a population cap. Others will use a pretty standard matchmaking system to drop you into an instance or spin up a new one if there's no room available (see: destiny, though destiny is a bit weird in that its hybrid p2p/server authoritative).

Anyway, since "number of players per instance" has a gameplay impact in addition to affecting server specs and cost it means that the choice of player count isn't made the same way as the capacity of some web or database service would be. The design team is going to choose a target number of players per instance early on and then adjust it if absolutely necessary as development goes on. Performance testing will inform whether that number is actually realistic, but depending on design constraints there may often be willingness to upgrade target server specs. MMOs with large instances have more leeway here since adding or removing a couple of players to help performance won't really impact gameplay all that much, while games with smaller instances like Destiny will basically have no way to adjust player count without the world feeling entirely empty.

[royal lintel]

Can I read this statement to mean that there will be a milestone in the development cycle where a simulated stress test will be performed against different server configurations/specs, in terms of the standard ones IOPS,CPU,RAM,etc together with an arbitrary, usually power of two out of habit, number of players.
Combine this with the game genre, e.g. some games choose to implement a hard limit of 4 co-op players, so the server specs has a predictable pattern to increase count. Or other games wants to try 128 players PvP Battle Royale, therefore the server specs per instance are probably required to be beefier than 4 players co-op.
Correct.

Though ideally that "milestone" isn't a single point in development, but constant automated performance tests in addition to data taken from internal playtesting.

As for what Unreal has to do with spinning up servers - it doesn't. Unreal itself would not be making those decisions (except maybe to shut down if a game has ended or something). You'd have some sort of server coordination system.

That system is not something that a game engineer would be touching - you'd likely have service engineers (or whatever you want to call them) working on that or integrating with an existing system (see: playfab, gamelift, agones, etc).

In reference to the original post you were talking about, unless that's a super small studio where everyone needs to wear a ton of hats it's unlikely they're saying that position would directly work on that sort of service. But the game does need to talk to those services in some way - to tell those services when the game server is ready, to get the list of players allowed to be on the server, to tell the coordination system how many players you have, etc.

So that integration could be done by a game engineer, and even if it isn't it's likely they'll need a familiarity with how such services work to be able to understand the lifecycle of their own work.

As for how the game talks with those services - it's usually really simple standardized tech like REST APIs. playfab and the like provide SDKs so that you don't always have to write those API calls yourself but a fully in-house system will of course need someone to do that.

Your spending your time in unreal. That line actually feeds into what I said

You're not the one writing the services, but you may be integrating them into the game itself. Hence the whole collaboration part - you're working with other teams to build out these systems by doing the game side of things.

As I said earlier:

the game does need to talk to those services in some way - to tell those services when the game server is ready, to get the list of players allowed to be on the server, to tell the coordination system how many players you have, etc.

I think it's also referencing a "multi-server solution" in very general terms - the entire game server stack including the game server executable itself and how it communicates with other servers and clients can be considered part of a "multi-server solution".

You can't have a "multi-server solution" without the actual game server software... and that's written in unreal. So it's part of that solution.

[royal lintel]

That's exactly what I'm describing, though. The "signal out into the void" part has to be written by someone. Additionally you may need servers to communicate with each other to pass player data between them, and you may need to talk with services to push/pull player data there too.

Regarding "signaling out into the void": publicly available auto-scaling solutions like playfab know absolutely nothing about your game server. You give them a zipped folder and some configuration telling them how to launch the server executable inside it. When a server runs, it uses a provided API to report back once the server has finished starting up (don't want to let players try to connect too early, also provides for some sort of fault detection to let the coordination service timeout and restart the server) and then report game status - whether the game is still in progress, how many players are connected, etc. None of the server coordination services outright rely on the game, but it's necessary to have some sort of communication layer because how else would it know when additional servers need to be scaled out?
Maybe this is the disconnect - if you do load balancing purely at the protocol (or lower) level then the above makes no sense. But you can't do that with games in a generic way - there are no standard protocols here to detect what's going on.

[steady pewter]

Impressive.

[royal lintel]

Well there was a conversation there at one point, but the person I was replying to deleted all their response for some reason ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[plucky hatch]

My deepest apologies, it's a compulsion, like OCD, to clean up my online footprint. It's definitely not you, it's me. I hope you can forgive me, I didn't want to come across as being rude

[plucky hatch]

<@&213101288538374145> Can I politely ask you to intervene, my PTSD is not my fault, and the above comment is lacking empathy. I think I have the right to be here even if my PTSD sometimes leads to non-traditional online behavior, such as routinely deleting my comments, which again is a compulsion, and in a better world I shouldn't need to explain/excuse myself for it. If their behavior is acceptable, please do let me know, I will voluntarily leave. Thank you!

[spice dagger]

You have every right to delete your messages.

You are also not obligated to respond to people. Especially if their messages do not register a positive emotional response for you.

[plucky hatch]

If at all possible, can you let me know if anything else would be done about this, perhaps a reminder from the moderating team about inclusiveness being the spirit of this server? I will evaluate how safe I feel based on that. Because unfortunately it was a trigger, and I feel it caused unnecessary distress as it was a voluntary and explicit negative reply to my apologetic comment meant for someone else. And my apologies for repeating, my PTSD is not my fault, and it was also not anti-social, and I feel the unexpected reprimand from a non-moderating member was unwarranted. Thank you again, and apologies for all the trouble I may be causing!

[pure kettle]

I had to apologise for my snarky remarks following up the comment about message deletion. It happens a while ago on other channel, but it doesn't seem to be caused by mental health problems. And I personally all for preservations, especially with thoughtful discussions or Q&A thread for future references.

[serene crystal]

I think the main reason we get antsy about people deleting messages is the potential that someone in the future might find the information useful

[pure kettle]

I had two cases where my past messages/post on social media backfire on me a lot, caused some drama, and I'm sure it still remains out there. Granted I was edgier and more assholistic in my pre-20s, but I did end up making apology statement and all is well now.

I can only assume some misunderstanding in the past caused traumatic experience, and I personally can relate with traumatic triggers (albeit with different case). Even though there's low chance messages from here lifted into significant internet drama. But who knows, it's not within my rights to speculate more about it anyway.

[plucky hatch]

No problem, I understand, this is an online forum after all, so opinions are expected 🙂 if I can point to the Procrustes' Bed anecdote, and my apologies for assuming, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Procrustes, the second sentence in the first paragraph. I'm hoping we can all agree that reality is more elastic, and we are most likely on a spectrum, so some leeway is a better approach when meeting unexpected online behaviors. Thank you for your reply/s above!

[steel creek]

but isnt that its own irony in play here? If you delete these messages, no one will have a reference point to the conversation. You are literally disregarding the obvious harm that results from the effort of the removal for people in the future to understand everyone else's conversation.

[steady pewter]

We should own what we have said. And... I also prefer #career-chat topics.

[steel creek]

I feel this is a career topic. It goes straight to your ability to work in a group setting. I also agree you should own what you say.

[pure kettle]

To some extent, I can see how it can be destructive the behaviour is within environment like a company's group chat.

Deleting prior messages that coworkers could've used as reference for collaborative effort might able to get you fired, if not at the very least got suspension on the work appointment, because of hampering other's progress.

But to be fair, this is a public forum, so at most it ensues confusion or annoyance, no real life changing repercussions.

[plucky hatch]

Seconded, you wont get very far in a work environment if you feel the need to delete things, especially in the day and age of slack etc.

[pure kettle]

Also to be clear, the things pointed out above is not a defamatory threat, or exclusivity agenda, but it's just how collaborative work goes. Hampering other's progress in collaborative work will have domino effect leading up to work termination.

[plucky hatch]

<@&213101288538374145> Apologies again, for a moment it seemed that we can put it behind us, so what is your official stance on the current conversation? Because it seems to me that it is expected of me to act according to a standard that I cannot comply with due to my disability (which is not explicitly antisocial), which sets me up to failure and the expectation is unfair in my opinion, also the lack of empathy is unexpected. I understand that my current disability interferes with a successful group integration, but I don't think that automatically it puts me in an antagonistic position, nor I should be blamed for it. Because of course I would, if I could, successfully socially integrate.

[granite brook]

I would only repeat what DevilsD already told you

[gentle pewter]

I don't see anything here either the would require moderator intervention. We expect people in this server to behave like adults and refrain from flaming and trolling and such, but otherwise folks are free to interact in whatever way they want within those parameters. It's natural that people will become more friendly or distant depending on how they feel about the interactions they have with each other. That's just human. It's not our job to make sure everyone here becomes friends, it's just our mission to make this place one where that is at all possible. How you get along with people or not is entirely your own responsibility.

[plucky hatch]

sounds good, thank you all for the overall conversation!

[vagrant bramble]

:no_entry_sign: Dokuyaku#3639 was banned.

[misty parrot]

typically how many years of experience should you have to apply for a senior programmer position?

[flat gazelle]

A senior normally has around 7 years at least.

[steady pewter]

Depends on the industry and the company too. Seen cases from 4 years to 12 years.

[pure kettle]

At the very least you're definitely not going to be a senior programmer in your early to mid 20s.

[barren crow]

What is a good place to start for portfolio building?

[plucky hatch]

Art station and behance are free, then sites like squarespace can offer more flexibility and even embedding webGL and such, but those have minimum fees. I prefer ArtStation Pro as it’s simple and easy to maintain. There are so many these days, best to choose one dependent on what type of work you plan to show.

[woeful vine]

job titles vary at different companies for software engineer

[vague oriole]

I just used a free HTML template I found on the internet and modified it so its different and personalized to me. You'd have to pay hosting fees. Although, I think it would be cheaper than using something like squarespace.

[craggy nacelle]

I was a tech lead before 25 ¯_(ツ)_/¯

But I've been programming since 13 or something

[nova tartan]

That's usually a startup being unable or unwilling to bring in people with many years experience

[craggy nacelle]

It was Nokia

:P

[plucky hatch]

And I’ve known Creative Directors in their mid to late 20’s. But it’s still very uncommon.

[craggy nacelle]

Perhaps but it all depends on circumstances :)

[plucky hatch]

Normally when I see it, although not in your case of course, it’s usually smaller companies who have those roles but assign them to younger people either because they have been there from the start (new company/startup), lack of cash and experience to bring in actual senior people or nepotism. That aside I do know a few who have done it on raw talent.

[nova tartan]

even on the raw talent side there's a lot of stuff you just kind of have to live through to understand, and there's only so much you can live through in your mid twenties

[plucky hatch]

Yeah, especially if you have to manage people. When I first become a manager I was in my mid-20’s and certainly not ready for it.

[pure kettle]

If it does happen, then it's like very edge case

[nova tartan]

there is a trend though of engineers and technical people tending to have a god complex and thinking they are the exception that should be senior at 3-4 years experience when in fact they are one among tens of thousands of people with similar abilities

[plucky hatch]

Some people are also very good at project work but very bad at managing other people, and vice versa. The more of your own life experience you have the easier it gets to manage other people and their emotions.

[nova tartan]

all of this is not to insult anyone's abilities or claims or anything btw just moreso saying that senior means very different things to different people
For me I have a basic experience threshold

[craggy nacelle]

Yeah it's true you can more easily get those positions in smaller companies

[plucky hatch]

Yes ditto, I was saying in my experience it’s normally what people transition to in very late 20’s early 30’s, but good work getting there before if you can 👍

[nova tartan]

As someone who is a few years past that transition now I've seen a lot of people who remind me of my former self come in
thinking experience doesn't matter because I'm super smart etc

and then 10 years in it's like
I was a dumb kid

[craggy nacelle]

I probably mostly got the position based on my technical ability. I knew fuck all about anything else lol

They had more structure in terms of actual managers so I was mostly just the guy who knew answers to all the really hard technical questions nobody else in the team did :P

(and was able to formulate them in such a way that other people understood them, which is probably also a major contributor)

[craggy nacelle]

I don't know if this is an american corporate thing for reals, or if this is just an exaggeration because everywhere I've worked people have been hired based on what is actually needed :P

[plucky hatch]

Yeah me too, in London and now Scandinavia this has never been an issue. Ability always trumps qualifications/age/formality, with the exception of one company but they are almost 100k employees with a HR system as old as the internet.

[tidal moth]

I think this is common among many disciplines (design included); and unfortunately it means you get people that aren't providing the necessary experience for their role

[plucky hatch]

i have known two general managers under 25 in my career and they were BOTH idiots

nothing against 25 year olds but these women did not have their sh!t together. the first smoked marijuana on company time in the office, treated me like shit, and the other cant manage scheduling let alone her own finances.

drinks a gallon of jack daniels with her bf every night and complains about not having enough for food even though she makes 10x the rest of us

/rant

on a different note. i dunno about making games anymore. ive been waffling between making games a full career and starting a career as a software engineer. i love making games but i cant ever even plan or finish anything. and i want to make a difference in the world...

and ive discovered a liking for DS & A.

the other thing is games are fun. but people become sedentary and generally unhealthy. im not sure i want to contribute to that

[ashen lynx]

generally unhealthy or maybe games is that last bit that is holding humanity's sanity together.

[plucky hatch]

outrageous take (lol)

[plucky hatch]

Well there is always the enterprise side where I work in. Generally pays better, less stressful and technically you are still making games, so all the skills are transferable at least, and quite sought after.

[shadow kelp]

true, plenty of non-game dev engineering roles in the games industry these days.

I did enterprise software for many years before getting into games, it's a valid route, especially with the skills shortage, most solid programmers that can pick up C++ can get into games now.

[plucky hatch]

Oh I meant even as an artist, tech artist, programmer etc. I have been doing it in house at Volvo for 4 years, now working for another studio. Essentially making games and all of the elements that go into a game, but a different end product for a different market.

[shadow kelp]

right. There's plenty of jobs in data science, analytics, devops, services, sysadmin etc around now too.

[plucky hatch]

Yeah indeed, I’m working with several fashion and furniture companies using Unreal too so it’s very widespread. I have not worked in the medical sector but thats also a massive growing market.

[shadow kelp]

well, we're talking about different sides of the same coin 😄 There are lots of non-core game tech jobs in the games industry nowadays, and there are lots of core game tech jobs in other industries too.

Being a really solid UE programmer doesn't just qualify you for games jobs these days!

[plucky hatch]

No indeed, I misunderstood what you first said 👍

[pure kettle]

Partly thanks to virus pandemic, everyone had to do it virtually

[plucky hatch]

if i still wanted anything to do with games i might. like i said. i want to make a difference. but this is all good information

[red dirge]

Where do I sell my game, it is still not finished but here is the problem, I don’t have marketing funds, so I can’t put it on steam but also, is there anything better than itch io that is free? I feel like a game with well made graphics and models isn’t in the right place in a site full of 2d and cartoonish games, I can’t seem to even find any good looking 3d game there, where do I sell? Or do I just put it there

[nova tartan]

If you are serious about selling your game, it costs 100$ to put the game on steam which I think is then refunded after it generates 1000$ in revenue