#career-chat

1 messages · Page 26 of 1

chilly sundial
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It's not about the genre of game, it's about the job role you wish to do on that game.

Are you looking to design levels, make 3D models, make animations, script gameplay, be a gameplay programmer, tools programmer, engine programmer, graphics programmer, etc etc.

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That's the exactly the attitude you can't afford to have. You'd be surprised how much of the industry is quiet.

static sentinel
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😂😂 location is another really big issue for me. Game dev as a profession is non existent in my country so I have to apply overseas and abroad and then the million dollar question comes up. "Are you eligible to to work in this location?" And thats when i know i won't get the role😂

glad lichen
chilly sundial
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They're harder to come across, but I have seen a few recent junior roles accepting overseas and assisting with Visas and whatnot. I've also seen new remote work. I also wouldn't say gamedev is non-existent. I don't know where you are of course, but you may be surprised at what you can find.

If gamedev is too hard at the moment, try an adjacent industry that does what you want.

glad lichen
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Game dev doesnt exist here

chilly sundial
static sentinel
glad lichen
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Mmmmm alright

static sentinel
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I found i enjoyed gameplay programming the most

glad lichen
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Cant wait to start the course then

static sentinel
static sentinel
chilly sundial
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indeed, handshake (if you're part of an institution that's signed up to it), gamesindustry.biz, gamesjobsdirect.

There's tons of boards, just give a search for em

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Also just check careers pages of companies you care about

glad lichen
oblique ice
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alot of site for game dev roles actually, well learn.unreal maybe have some course that focus on game development, advantage is that those course are free and can download project files, i also learn from there

static sentinel
placid bridge
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Ofcourse it does not mean permanent job loss. but the truth is that many of the work is moving abroad and that's just the reality of it, you can see the job listings yourself.
AAA is in a serious indentity crisis with the amount of indies we are seeing selling upwards to 200million USD of value.
Unreal for the most part now allows many of us to dev as indies. Small teams with people who are dedicated and close-knit.

The "doom-saying" is not so much about doom. It's the fact that the industry is changing and the attitude towards how to position yourself for employment also should reflect that.

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Granted, like anything on here, is just personal opinions it does not mean I am neccesarily right by any means. Clearly I am not alone in thinking this and since my initial reason for posting was to support @ivory geode's point.

@woeful iron's rebuttal to what he said was:

"sounds like Laaven has maybe soured from facing one too many rejections"

It feels like a bit of an assumptive remark and degrading even. I think it makes sense to actually give some merit to what he said, atleast... I've seen the patterns myself aswell, which I also tried backing up with some real data.

ivory geode
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Dieter said himself that he has had a job for a while, so his view might be limited.

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I think people should be aware of that, spending even 6months on portfolio right now without experience could be literal waste of time.

oblique ice
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🤣

static sentinel
ivory geode
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Sigh indeed

chilly sundial
# placid bridge Ofcourse it does not mean permanent job loss. but the truth is that many of the ...

AAA is in a serious indentity crisis with the amount of indies we are seeing selling upwards to 200million USD of value.

Not really, at least imo. AAA is in a crisis because it's been missing the mark of what the customers want, and everyone grew too quickly during COVID. That too will change and settle. Games are the largest industry on earth, and I highly doubt the big players are going to be gone because of rough point.

There's also a bias here. Yes we're seeing a lot of AAA go downhill, but there's also AAA that are recovering, not to mention all of the A and AA studios and large studios outside of this, educational games, mobile games, etc. There also exists bias on the indie side. While it's true there's been some recent indie hits, most indies are not grossing 200 million USD, not to mention, there have always been indie hits. Lets not forget the biggest game on the planet was an indie game 13.5 years ago :P. For every indie we see succeed, countless more are barely scraping a living or not scraping a living.

I've heard countless industry veterans talk about how cyclic the industry is, you get a lull, growth, scaling back, repeat and repeat. The hard times will pass. They already are for some, like I said, I've seen peers getting entry level industry roles, I see companies that had laid off a year ago with new roles on their careers pages. Junior positions have been harder to come by before the industry ended up in it's current layoff state. While this hasn't made it good, it's more of the fact that a lot of companies just want experience that can do things quickly and not have a riskier investment. The "entry" level roles with 5 years of experience has been a meme for a while :P

That's more what I mean about doom-saying, and I'd like to clarify I'm not calling you anything here, I'm talking about a general gloomy attitude I've heard for a while.
The general negativity, while understandable does nothing except crush any hope.

chilly sundial
# ivory geode I think people should be aware of that, spending even 6months on portfolio right...

Sure, but it also could not be, and probably would not be. There's always a chance anything could happen, but that shouldn't stop you trying. It's not like the stuff doesn't exist, it's just difficult, and it's not like you need to be some showstopper millionaire self built prodigy. Hell, even while things recover, as I've mentioned already look for things that aren't exactly what you want, maybe even in another field. Get a job as a stepping stone while you find the real job you want. I know a few people that are doing something like that.

I'm not saying it will ever be easy, I don't think it ever was :P, but I don't think everything is lost.

wraith mortar
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You can earn good money but few people do, tends to require in-demand niche specializations that take years (decade+) to build

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Software has lost a lot of income lately too 😦

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At least in my country

chilly sundial
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Yeah the money can be there, I've heard some good tales.

chilly sundial
oblique ice
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yes specializations need general knowledge first, then specialize knowledge, of specific, simple is expert knowledge and the only person who does "that" no one else will do that.

round radish
sonic turtle
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I have spent quite a long time looking at UE jobs that are posted online via this discord / the other big one as well as indeed and I've started noticing that some positions are disproportionately needed over others.

It seems like the ratio of games needing an animator or a UI guy to those that don't is like 5:2

Its like for every 10 job postings that needs people, 6-7 of them are looking for animators / UI people and only like 1-2 of those are looking for someone with audio experience. (which is a little concerning since I'm trying to specialize in UE audio...)

But have you guys noticed this sort of thing as well and why do you think it happens?

(I've honestly been considering building a portfolio on UE Widgets / Common UI just because of this trend I see)

spice dagger
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It also doesnt help that the industry itself is going through a bit of a lurch. Lots of folks have come into the job seeking market recently due to all of the layoffs happening across the AAA space.

sonic turtle
# spice dagger It also doesnt help that the industry itself is going through a bit of a lurch. ...

Yea, that definitely makes sense.
Do you have any opinion on this stuff from an audio perspective?

I have a bunch of audio experience that im currently acquiring that seems pretty rare in an UE Dev (Ambisonic / Custom Reverb IRs), and Im hoping to get my foot in somwhere, but I cant help but fear that It might not matter if I start looking for work and no one needs an audio guy.

any thoughts on this?

spice dagger
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What exactly are you struggling with?

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Are you struggling with finding listings that satisfy your position?

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Or are you being rejected from the ones you apply to?

sonic turtle
# spice dagger What exactly are you struggling with?

Its not so much that I'm struggling get in since I haven't started applying yet, but I was just concerned at the amount of teams that seem to already have their audio figured out and are not seeking other members.

I guess I wasn't really asking for specific advice on applying or anything like that, more of just making a statement that as an outsider looking into the industry from an audio perspective, the available audio positions look sparse.

spice dagger
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You may need to expand where you are looking for listings?

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I would think that most listings here are not going to be large teams

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And the likelyhood of large teams looking for an audio guy, would be lower.

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On this platform at least

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Have you tried other platforms?

sonic turtle
# spice dagger You may need to expand where you are looking for listings?

Well I have mainly looked in this discord and the other big UE one and it definitely seems like its primarily smaller team sizes (which I definitely prefer).

Discord Slackers: Salary Jobs channel
Discord Unreal: Meet your people channel
Indeed: just general search

those are the 3 areas I have looked.

spice dagger
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You may need to expand your search to include other platforms then.

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Im not quite sure what the popular ones are these days.

sonic turtle
spice dagger
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🤷

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Cant hurt to try.

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Try Glass Door as well

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Im sure there are similar sites.

pallid palm
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I'm not personally an audio specialist, but I have known a few, and it's a very tough and competitive specialization. Kind of similar to narrative design/writing, in that there are less postings compared to other specializations.

With something that competitive, networking is even more important.

wraith mortar
ivory tundra
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Neither doing audio, but why limit to unreal engine? Wouldn't it make more sense to look for any audio job? Being tied to a single engine reduces possibilities.

round radish
# sonic turtle I have spent quite a long time looking at UE jobs that are posted online via thi...

Honestly I'm not surprised. Audio is only part of the game/whatever package that companies produce. I think even a 10-20% being audio specific is quite high. Coders and the graphical side of things is generally a much bigger portion. Not that I'm trying to diminish the role that audio plays - it's very important. The guys doing hte sfx and music on our team are amazing... but there's 2 of them. Out of the 15 or so people that contribute regularly.

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As Frigerius says, limiting yourself to just UE + Audio may be the issue!

clear rampart
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Is this enough to get hired for game development?

I am taking 4 courses in udemy w/ certificates:

  • Two from CobraCode (Blueprint & Paper 2D/Paper ZD)

  • Two from Stephen Ulibarri (C++ & 3D)

  • I will have the finished code for each project with a bit of modification, as my receipt.

  • Experienced in Ren'Py Visual novel scripting, animating, and orchestrating transitions and audio.

  • Has experience in making a very long game design document, but was unused.

  • Has experience in Resonite's Flux system and created a Furniture tool system, Simple Gun Raycast with crunchy gun audio via dynamic audio, help developed 3D environments, and Overridden Inverse Kinematics for avatar animation.

strange plinth
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A list of skills is cool, a project you made yourself (not from a course) is something different and way more valuable

tall moth
low crystal
chilly sundial
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you have a lot of general skills there but you need to pick one and demonstrate it.

Knowledge of IK, third party tools, renpy and making a gdd probably isn't doing you any favours if you want to be a gameplay programmer.
What role do you want in game development

clear rampart
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The only thing I made so far for a UE portfolio was a double-tap dash system and a single-button camera controller.

One of the most annoying thing I found about switchin First Person, Third Person, and switching shoulder view is having to memorize and use two buttons to interact with all camera perspectives. So I ended up making a single-button camera controller. It's very buttery smooth 🤤

left otter
# clear rampart Is this enough to get hired for game development? I am taking 4 courses in udem...

Hey Tito, I thought I'd give you my 2 cents.

I agree with ACuppaTea about specializing. It's great to have a general skill set, but when your aim is to get hired, you will be applying for specific positions.

For example, if you are trying to get hired as a programmer, then there are some specific skills that companies will look for that you will want to spend some time mastering. For programming specifically, some of those are:

  • Skill in one or more specific languages
  • Knowledge of OOP principles, SOLID programming practices, Data Structures and Algorithms, and Design Patterns. Much of game dev is OOP though it wouldn't hurt to at least be somewhat familiar with data-driven design.
  • Be familiar with at least one method of version control, whether it's Git, Perforce, etc. (which one isn't that important - a company will bring you up to speed with their system)
  • Knowledge of how game engines work in general, and more-so how the engine you're using works. For Unreal, you'll want to be decently familiar with the Unreal-specific practices (you'll learn a lot of them here in this Discord server) - such as the proper workflow for structuring your code base, knowledge of the UE framework and classes, and nuances with compiling your code (like how you should have live coding enabled, reinstancing disabled, and not live code/or at least know under which circumstances you can live code without corrupting your project - i.e. you can change function bodies in the .cpp file + live code etc.)

I do cover the above points throughout my courses, but I'm showing you how to create games and understand the engine whereas landing a position will require you to do more of a deep dive in these topics, which probably means reading some books and doing some research on them.

I can recommend some books if you're interested. Some that come to mind are:

  • Cracking the Coding Interview by Gayle Laackman McDowell
  • Effective Modern C++ by Scott Meyers
  • C++ Coding Standards by Andrei Alexandrescu and Herb Sutter
  • C++ Software Design by Kalus Igleberger
  • Design Patterns by the gang of four

Just some of my favorites - note that these are C++/programming books, not Unreal-specific, but they contain the fundamental knowledge above (there are some C++ specific data structures and algos books but none specifically that I recommend here).

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Bonus if you can create a portfolio project that demonstrates your knowledge in some or all of these areas, and even better if you can talk competently about them in a conversation (i.e. interview). I've landed game dev jobs this way.

clear rampart
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My god. I have a long way to go.

left otter
# clear rampart My god. I have a long way to go.

It may seem like a lot. But it's better knowing about this so you can plan effectively and spend your time wisely if your aim is to get a career as a developer. Also, for entry positions, not all companies are going to expect you to be a master yet. You've gotta start somewhere!

clear rampart
# left otter Bonus if you can create a portfolio project that demonstrates your knowledge in ...

Ohh. You just gave me an idea. This means, if I want to focus on game design for player character controls. I could make portfolios with little assets and spit out designs to solve known design problems and nuances from existing games.

r/UnrealEngine users do showcase a lot of their work but it seems a lot of effort. Maybe the idea of little assets would work with a strong gameplay design?

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I'm getting waaaay over my head 😅
But i'll take your advice and a lot of others. Thank you 😊

left otter
round radish
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The scams are real right now.

strange plinth
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should def use automod (discord's or as a Quinn feature)

barren shadow
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its not that simple

strange plinth
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didnt say otherwise, but if the scams continues like that it should be here

void gust
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One does not simply scam his way into Mordor.

rigid bluff
drifting elbow
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How do you maintain study while working full time? It usually crushes my soul and i cannot work on games

spice dagger
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Do you have to work fulltime? Can you aford casual work instead?

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Sometimes you do have to make sacrifices in order to get where you want to go.

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The real world will quickly teach you that you will never get everything you want (at least not all at once).

drifting elbow
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Oh i’m well aware
I’m studying technical art i think? And vr game design
I just love shaders and blueprint and i work on my modelling as well

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My parents are

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They gave me lots of shit but taught me nothing and so in tryong to do the life thing myself it’s really hard

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But it’s coming together!

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I was worried abt being homeless this morning but i’m good

spice dagger
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Do you live with your parents?

drifting elbow
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No they kicked me out, i’m trying to get a license
I finally have a dmv appr

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I had to check at midnight every day for months

spice dagger
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Having shelter and food to eat is much more important than working on games. If working on games is not your fulltime job, you need to priorities what your job actually is to ensure you maintain those first 2 things I mentioned..

drifting elbow
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Yeah i spoke to eipd and i have a job lined up

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I just dont want to lose my passion, it happens every time

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I also finally found affordable housing today

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I have savings too

spice dagger
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Persistence is key, getting stable should be your goal. Unfortunately, sometimes the things we want the most are the things we have to put aside until we get a foundation that can sustain those passions.

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You will get there.

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It takes time.

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How old are you?

drifting elbow
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22; i have plenty of time
I just want to make destruction systems a reality someday

spice dagger
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You are very young, you are right, you have loads of time.

drifting elbow
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Burnout, red faction, teardown

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All auper impressive; i’m shit at math tho

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I have a pre-calc understanding

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Burnout is really impressive lateral thinking; the anikations are baked and mixed depending on the crash vector

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Super cool

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So very little is simulated at runtime

spice dagger
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I was shit at math in high school, Im a senior engineer now. Don't put barriers infront of yourself.

drifting elbow
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How did you learn calculus?

spice dagger
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Trial and error and time.

drifting elbow
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LOL thank you

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I have done very little of that

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For calc at least

spice dagger
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Experience comes with time.

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For some it comes easier, for others it takes longer.

drifting elbow
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Games and 3d have filled my head wirh vector math

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My dad is super impressive; they didnt use it, but he made an invisible screenspace shader for twisted metal that used higher dimensional calculus to encode information invisibly

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So you could know who took a screenshot on the ps2 for beta version of the game

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He was my age

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He worked everywhere i kind of live in his shadow bc i want to do what he did

spice dagger
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Be careful comparing yourself to others, you don't want to fall into the trap of always falling short of unrealistic expectations. Compare yourself to who you were yesterday.

drifting elbow
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2012?! Nvm he was much older

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Yes everyone tells me this; it’s just a bummer i always admired his intelligence and i wanted to embody it

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I’m wise in ways that he isnt

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I understand we are all unique

drifting elbow
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It’s a good point

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I believe in 1% compounding improvements

spice dagger
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Its great to have something to aspire to achieve, but don't measure progress to that end by whats missing. Measure progress by what you have gained towards it.

clear rampart
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I believe we have a somewhat similar case? Except I'm pushing 30 🗣️ 📢 🪦 🪦 🪦 🪦
Exited my full-time job, then went part-time online-job(enough to survive). So I have more time to study game dev and making portolio.

drifting elbow
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Dude facebook marketplace is goated

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I made like 170$ reselling monitors

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It was over like. 2 and a half weeks, but it was very little effort

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Grab deals, sell on the app you didnt buy it
So if u got it on facebook, ship it out to ebay

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And vice versa

clear rampart
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I'm about to get my ass kicked if I don't get a new job by next month. 🏥 🚑

drifting elbow
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You can often contact facebook sellers for shit they have trouble selling and they give it to you cheap and u can flip it on ebay

clear rampart
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oh wow

drifting elbow
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The cpus are good because they are light

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Low shipping costs

clear rampart
drifting elbow
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Thats upsetting

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Thats a very good deal

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Even if it had bent pins id be up all night trying to fix

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Some people have too many cpu coolers

clear rampart
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You know what's funny, my friend was the one asking the person. Turns out they don't know what it is.
I old my friend "tell her the real cost of the Ryzen 7" 🤣

drifting elbow
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They are heavy. Often no good to ship if not bulk; but you can grab a bunch at once for cheap

clear rampart
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ngl. Looking at #hire-a-freelancer is a little scary. People out there have really good portfolio.

drifting elbow
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Yes, it’s true

round radish
spice dagger
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The point is that keeping at something is most of the battle.

round radish
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Definitely. That's what I struggle with most, I think.

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I'd definitely trade some of my earlier acumen for motivation and determination.

spice dagger
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Its funny the bag of attributes you end up with. Sometimes I wish I didn't have to struggle, but then what would I have to give up for that.

round radish
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Indeed!

oblique ice
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i still struggle alot of things until today 🤣

hexed jackal
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Hello everyone, is there a channel to share demo reel or is it this one ? :p

woeful iron
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like from a project you're working on?

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or to promote yourself

hexed jackal
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promote myself mostly

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alright thank you for the answer !

woeful iron
hexed jackal
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thank you very much @woeful iron , it's done !

tropic sundial
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how are yall doin

oblique ice
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we doing good

simple wyvern
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Heyo fam!
Not sure if any of the job seekers would read this, but hopefully it helps somebody.

When we do a posting here and we get DM's that say 'is this job still available', we just ignore them. Remember that upwards of 20 people respond each time with full CV's, examples of work etc.

We don't even open messages that have no info.

So even if you just pop a link to your LinkedIn or G-Drive or whatever, it makes a huge difference.
We are fine with copy pasta links and blurbs.
Most of the time, those of us who do the hiring only want to see if you can do it, what you have done before, and if you are happy with the payment offer.

Good luck! I know it's tough out there!

chilly sundial
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I kinda get your point if this was a platform that has a set hiring period the listing is offered for, but on discord a lot of these posts stay up long after it's been filled.

I definitely get wanting effort and straight to the point-ness on a job post, but at the same time when on a platform where often those roles are filled without it being mentioned, it's understandable not wanting to tailor a CV to a role, draft a cover, etc without even knowing if they're still actively choosing for that role

low crystal
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What is the correct way to I guess “apply” for the jobs then?

simple wyvern
# chilly sundial I kinda get your point if this was a platform that has a set hiring period the l...

I think just toss in whatever the current skillset is.
Yesterday I hired 2 'Unreal Generalists' - The one guy didn't even say hello or nothing lol, just a linkdIn linky which I happily checked out and enjoyed.
Other dude wrote an essay on his desire to work where he did more than one thing.
Then a linky to what he had done.
Both were awesome.

I think the dude with the essay I hired like a week after his DM.
Sometimes your passion opens the door. (probably rarely, but definitely sometimes).

So if a posting is there and it is filled quickly, some of us are still checking out DMs and clicking out skills just because we have roadmaps and struggle to find people who fit the skill reqs and team culture. No expiry date on that.

So @low crystal - In our case definitely just dropping a link that shows off your epicness. A blurb is a bonus, but it sucks for the applicant having to type a bunch of bantha pudu and not even get an answer - so do that if you have the energy and really really dig the project.

But the best application is to show off your skills somewhere and link us to it.

chilly sundial
# simple wyvern I think just toss in whatever the current skillset is. Yesterday I hired 2 'Unre...

Yeah I definitely understand where you're coming from. The problem is to a lot of other people I imagine they feel like just dropping a link is lazy, and want to inquire before they make effort in an opening. I think because there's so many hoops to jump through with applications in a lot of places, it raises the bar of making that impression generally, even if it wouldn't apply in this specific circumstance, and I don't know about you but I could understand not wanting to expend that effort if there was never a chance in the first place.

I suppose there may also be a factor of job hunting on discord being inherently less formal, which might contribute to a more casual nature of reaching out. I mean that's not to say a lot of it won't be people who didn't have a chance anyway, or people attempting to scam, etc. It is discord after all :P

Now again, I'm not saying you require the extra mile, because you've proven otherwise that you explicitly don't require this, as well as your posting specifying what you need, but I can definitely understand why people wouldn't want to do just that bare minimum :P

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It's a really difficult one to manage from both sides of the coin 😆

simple wyvern
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Fo shizzo! hahaha

silk gyro
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Hi everyone. I've decided to start learning Unreal Engine 5, but I'm really confused about how to move forward. Right now, I'm still at a beginner level. I'm just starting to understand the basics of Blueprint, and I used to know a little C#, but I've forgotten most of it. I learn better visually — videos and hands-on examples work much better for me than written materials.
My goal is to reach a level where I can create a small but playable game within the next 2 months. I can dedicate around 5 to 6 hours a day to learning and practicing, but I don’t know what to study, how to structure my learning, or what order to follow. If anyone with experience in Unreal Engine can give me some advice or guidance, I’d really appreciate it. Thanks in advance!

woeful iron
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First get some basics under your belt, e.g. read pins of #cpp just to get an idea of the engine and workflow. After that I would say the best way to learn is have something that you want to make (not too complicated) and just get started with it. Every time you encounter something that's blocking you or you don't know, find out how to do that thing, and proceed like that.
I think learning by building towards something like this is much more efficient than trying to learn broadly first and then apply.

slate dock
# silk gyro Hi everyone. I've decided to start learning Unreal Engine 5, but I'm really conf...

im the last one you get advice from, but i have 2 questions if you dont mind, do you have a full game idea or you struggling like me? thats first, second, i heard low poly games are way easier but if you really want to do a high-detailed game like me would you just ignore it and make a low poly game as a start to learn or you starting hard and just dont care of how much effort it will be?, i really cant make decisions and im so lost..

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would love to take advices from anyone

silk gyro
silk gyro
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Even though I haven’t finished Dying Light, I really enjoy playing it. I do have some ideas for a game similar to it, but I think it would be way too difficult for me at this stage.

fiery plinth
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In just a few years

shut token
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I'd say you dodged a bullet if you ask, "is this still available" and they won't even have the ability to respond with a simple "yes"

fiery plinth
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A platform should be used that indicates that, should be a given that any listed position will get an unmanageable amount of replies for one person.

fiery plinth
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Wouldn't say it was dodging a bullet, and i don't mean to scrutinize since i had zero context, but doing a hiring process and thinking "ill just reach out in a discord post quickly." turning into "i don't like how i get too many non-application replies or questions" seems maybe short sighted or naive, it was alreay said, but discord is very clumsy and inconvenient to handle hiring on, I don't think emails are much better. Forms are probably the way to go, I made my peace with them, but I know people hate them extremely.

green tangle
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Hi

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I need a developerplease

mint skiff
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I need a million dollers

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Let's link

round radish
oblique ice
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I need more tutorials lets share

woeful iron
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that's a strange statement

inland wyvern
digital gate
grave timber
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Ohhh okay

steady bloom
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Anyone currently hiring? 😁

round radish
wraith mortar
round radish
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You can do it next time, I'm off to sleep. 😛

steady bloom
naive drum
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I'm having trouble viewing the job board; all I see is manny bot. how do i fix that?

chilly sundial
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what do you mean? You have a screenshot?

naive drum
shut token
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Probably some setting you have where you can't see embeds

chilly sundial
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Yeah you need to enable embeds

naive drum
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fixed thank you. Idk how or when i switched that off lol

dim mango
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any TAs that worked in germany here? I have a few questions i'd like to ask 😬

spice dagger
graceful sable
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What's up everyone! I’ve been deep in Unreal every day building a solo VR action RPG called ElectroNexus (formerly released Neon Onslaught on Itch). I’m focused on stylized VFX, immersive systems, and custom gameplay logic.

I just launched my portfolio at:
https://www.aksiomatix.com/

If you’ve got time to check it out, I’d love any honest feedback. Especially on where I might need to improve next. Also open to tips for navigating into remote UE5 roles.

Thanks again!

Aksiomatix
Aksiomatix | Axel Jorgensen Portfolio

Custom VFX-driven Unreal development & immersive systems.

cobalt pond
meager vortex
hollow thistle
#

Hey guys iam a begginner started last month in ue5.5 and I want to ask how can I learn the engine especially that i feel stuck on tutorial hell like I can make stuff in ue5 after watching a tutorial but when i try to apply it myself i get stuck and i feel like i didn't learn anything so what should I do

void gust
# hollow thistle Hey guys iam a begginner started last month in ue5.5 and I want to ask how can I...

Sometimes, doing a tutorial twice helps to remember things, and you'll notice some details that you didn't before. Then, you can try making a project on your own, and only referring back to the tutorial on the subjects that you can't remember very well at the moment. But what matters more, in my opinion, are the fundamentals of problem solving and programming. You won't truly understand something until you've went through the pain of making it on your own.

oblique ice
#

No really answer, can repeat tutorial again 🤔

tall moth
fallow charm
spice dagger
#

This isnt the channel for that.

brisk nebula
# hollow thistle Hey guys iam a begginner started last month in ue5.5 and I want to ask how can I...

C++ and Blueprint is the key to unreal. My journey was hard but this is what I did.

Start with blueprints. Divide your attention for a 80 - 20 split between blueprints and c++ respectively

Learn C++ here
https://cboard.cprogramming.com/

Put together a simple game here. (Learn how to structure a project)
https://lazyfoo.net/tutorials/SDL/index.php

Sharpen your skills here. Look at the top rated solutions.
https://www.hackerrank.com/

C Board

Cprogramming.com's message board, filled with helpful programmers.

Lazy Foo' Productions - Beginning Game Programming v2.0

A beginners guide for Game Programming.

HackerRank - Online Coding Tests and Technical Interviews

HackerRank is the market-leading coding test and interview solution for hiring developers. Start hiring at the pace of innovation!

chilly sundial
#

If you want something more structured than a C forum, I'd look at learncpp.com too 🙂

strange plinth
thick coyote
#

I need some advice for something...

#

I worked some time as a generalist but after a project, my main skill kind of become BP programming.
However, I also don't have anywhere near enough published projects or a programming portfolio to get work on that... Is it better to try to apply regardless, or do you have suggestions for how a programming portfolio should be built?

chilly sundial
#

A programming portfolio isn't BP projects

#

Outside of extremely small scale production, BP programmer isn't really a role

#

Blueprints normally suplement a design skill such as game design

thick coyote
#

Hmm, then I suppose not much else on me changed except I know Unreal Better

chilly sundial
#

A programmer portfolio would be projects primarily in C++ aimed at the specific topic

#

It's absolutely fine of course to still want to primarily use BP, but in that case unless you're targeting small indie, your princess is in another castle

thick coyote
#

That's fine by me I'd say...

#

I was targetting more towards design and such

#

I just picked up lots of skills at small scale projects

chilly sundial
#

It might also help if you could post your portfolio for feedback. If you don't have one, they're pretty much non-optional, but if you have one people might be able to offer more pointed advice.

If you're not willing to for any number of completely valid reasons, the best advice I can give would be to:

  • Make sure you hit instantly with important info, but not overloading (First impressions count)
  • Make it appealing to look at, but not confusing (No text walls, have some styling, but still make it intuitive to use)
  • Showcase a good selection of different types of project that show some technical complexity. Maybe you made a parkour system, or if you're a level designer a really well thought out competitive FPS map. Avoid really simple things. That project made as part of a Udemy course, or a youtube tutorial, or that project where you just ended up making a double jump probably don't want to be there :P
thick coyote
#

I am working on revamping my portfolio as a website atm

#

Visuals need some love but I'm building up on it

#

Hmmh let's see

#

I made a project a while ago as exclusively Unreal Study

#

Should I include it? I can share a video or download

#

It definetly does not look good because I was not approaching at it as an artist

chilly sundial
#

The project doesn't have to look pretty, it has to show complexity and work

digital gate
thick coyote
#

I know some essentials of C++ to work with GAS

#

I kinda learned the ropes a bit better than I expected

digital gate
#

Learning Unreal using BP and then transitioning into C++ (and eventually, into engine dev) was how I launched my career

thick coyote
#

I at least got the confusing part out of the way by now

#

Guess digging deeper would help

chilly sundial
#

There's so many paths to choose from, just find out which one you enjoy

silent ingot
#

Anyone get any starter c++ programmer jobs recently?

pallid palm
#

Anyone have any experience working as a Lighting Artist (or related type of work?) Looking for a little advice on working with clients.

olive stream
#

@MR what kind of advice, all you need to do is exaggerate how hard it is and give them a little bit of spice on distance shading and ennvironmental absorption. Otherwise be professional.

ivory lynx
ivory lynx
# silent ingot Anyone get any starter c++ programmer jobs recently?

Not starter but I was able to find a role as a cinematic and unreal generalist recently, main focus is fine tuning cinematic and game optimization currently but was able to find it through my resume/portfolio they are very hard to come by though when you are like me and only have that indie experience luckily the number is big for me so they look at that and go yea he understands it haha

spiral tiger
ivory lynx
spiral tiger
oblique ice
#

Technical art is very different part, less focus game art

pallid palm
chilly sundial
#

It's impossible to give you an hourly rate. An hourly rate is a product of your costs, factoring in cost of living and things you miss out on from not being employed, as well as an assessment of your skill level and experience.

#

Also, I'm no freelancer, but I'd probably advise not lying to clients by exaggerating the work

spice dagger
#

For example, if you have a good idea that something is going to take X number of hours, you will want to tell the Client that it will take X + (some reasonable extra hours) which account for unexpected challenges you didnt forsee.

#

That way you dont screw yourself or the client.

#

Be honest with clients. Be honest with yourself.

#

As for your Hourly rate, as Cuppa mentioned, thats entirely specific to you and your situation.

#

It is helpful to stick to USD as your trading currency. Especially if you are from a country not in the US.

pallid palm
#

Thanks all! Yeah, I didn't take the above to mean lying, just some standard healthy buffer like also brought up.

lofty moat
round radish
#

I work on developing plugins for UE, I just sort of fell into it when a company saw my github.

digital gate
# lofty moat how do you get into engine dev?

I was a little ambiguous, but there’s two main ways to interpret what I said:

  1. Development of a custom engine
  2. Modification/Iteration of an existing popular engine
    2a. Unreal Engine
    2b. Godot Engine
    2c. Similarly source-available or open source engine
    2d. Proprietary engine you somehow got the source to

Okay, so I have done a little of #1, but I really meant 2.

1, and 2b,c,d are off topic for this server. 2 as a category are kind of similar, so you can apply what I’ll say somewhat evenly to them.

Super brief rundown of 1: An engine needs to be able to load assets, render assets (be it sound or visuals), take input from one or more devices, and run on one or more platforms- an engine usually needs to be applied to more than one game project to be an engine instead of part of a game.

To develop a custom engine, you build that minimum set of things out, either from scratch or you use existing libraries like SDL or whatever. You generally don’t write drivers, so you’ll be interfacing with OpenGL, Vulkan, DX, or similar technologies anyway.

Engines may also have tons of features, and you build them out incrementally over time, usually as games need them.

That brings me to 2 as a category, and I’ll specifically cover 2a (Unreal).

Essentially you need to have used the engine enough to be familiar with what could be improved. If you lurk around here, you might get some idea of irritating limitations, quirks, or omissions the engine has. This community has a dedicated channel for modification/discussion of the engine source, #engine-source .

You generally have a few options to releasing extensions to Unreal- you can fork the engine, which leads to either submitting a PR and getting your work into the engine, or just maintaining your own fork of the engine (and trying to market that). Otherwise, you might be able to create engine plugins, and release those either on fab or yourself.

So, ideally, you have some concrete use case you want to solve for. “blueprints don’t fully support the containers I want”, “i wish we had prefabs”, “what if unreal had server-to-server replication (SpatialOS)” are pretty big features, but something smaller like “hey I’m using this API and I don’t like how it works” is technically enough to start iterating on the engine. I’ve made engine changes on both of those levels (although I never did take my plugin offering to market- a company also noticed my github)

#

If you really wanna go ham on custom no-dependency engine dev, might I suggest handmade hero? You can learn a lot from it

lofty moat
#

Thank you for the reply!
I will try handmade hero.
Will also try to learn more about ue customization, as of now the work I've done in unreal engine i didnt felt any need for customization but I do wanna understand how to customize and all
I got into game dev by coding in blueprints and then learned cpp to create plugins and stuff but i dont know cpp outside ue and the core stuff like assembly language and graphics and such.....

sullen talon
#

Should i use real name for artstation account? Is it okay to create online alias/nickname?

chilly sundial
#

A professional portfolio should probably use your real name

fervent palm
#

Not here delete it

#

Don’t cross post either

#

@pure bay

#

Don’t spam in multiple channels

twilit saffron
#

It's been 4+ months since I've recieved any animation work in any capacity and I'm getting very upset at this point

#

I've reached out to many studios, individuals, discords, forums, X, etc and NOTHING. It's absolutely unbelievable.

#

I used to work on Halo: Infinite layed off during Covid, feels like a curse upon me now, wish I was kidding... especially living with schizophrenic people walking around talking to themselves all day.

opaque willow
#

its so stupid but I cant make a freelancer post in the #hire-a-freelancer, it says I already have a post there, but I can't find it hence i cant remove it... why everything must be so complicated

ivory echo
low crystal
#

Try upwork or something, I saw some people asking for animators

twilit saffron
inland laurel
#

Steam Game Preferences Survey
We’re running a quick survey to better understand your
favorite types of games — especially if you enjoy Simulation, Roguelike, or Puzzle genres.

Your input will help shape future game ideas and experiences. It only takes a minute!
https://forms.gle/XyUnwC3GcbtXTtjy8

Thanks for being awesome! 💬✨

Google Docs
Steam Game Preferences Survey

this referendum for steam audience

sweet sparrow
brisk nebula
sweet sparrow
#

I see I see. I definitely do have something viable gameplay wise, though I don't have much else like a story or environment

pliant jewel
frozen rover
#

What's like the industry recognized certifications or education for UE5? I saw one in coursera from Epic games it seems it is not recognized then I unreal academy from Epic game they have their own programs. But there's like 200 programs in there idunno if its even worth going to some of them. My goal is essentially learning how to build my small scope game and making sure becoming qualified to work within the industry as a professional.

wraith mortar
#

And unfortunately the few studios that are still making games want on-site employees esp. ones that don't require visa sponsorship

frozen rover
wraith mortar
#

The interest rates were set high specifically to stop investment and slow the economy
Putting people in a position where they have to sell assets at pennies on the dollar
When they pull the lever to undo those interest rates, the economy magically recovers only someone else now owns everything
And millions of people suffer in the process

#

There was literally no need for that to happen whatsoever, it was an evil choice capitalist ghouls made
A lot of jobs would still have been lost as the fallout from over-investment during covid, boomers liquidating wealth that they've pulled up for retirement, etc. due to the timing
But this trifecta (and ofc more elements) didn't need to happen all together

#

People are right to be angry

frozen rover
# wraith mortar The interest rates were set high specifically to stop investment and slow the ec...

It was set high also to reduce inflation of the national economy's money pool. Since millions of people received those monthly monetary allowance from the government it literally ruined the economy. Everyone knows about this right now, but so far inflation has done a lot more damage to every industry compared to AI's development and presumably stealing our jobs when inflation has already liquidated most jobs.

wraith mortar
#

I don't think the modern world actually has a way to solve it anymore

#

So, we are cooked

frozen rover
#

I agree no more pitchforks holding people anymore. Modern world is way too different right now. Its just time will fix it.

fervent palm
wraith mortar
#

Don't know that time will fix it, because stuff like this only ever gets fixed by removing the people doing it
It will just continue

frozen rover
wraith mortar
frozen rover
wraith mortar
#

They are not individuals

#

They are conglomerates, corporate empires, shareholders

#

Even when there are wealthy individuals, their money doesn't leave with them

open current
#

Hi, I was just wondering if there are any UI artists in here?👋 just got a couple questions:)

round radish
#

I imagine there are plenty.

wraith mortar
open current
#

I was interested in what specifically companies would look for when hiring a junior UI artist, and examples of projects theyd like to see on portfolios:)

spice dagger
#

There isn't some unspoken trick thing you need to do to get hired.

#

Just produce something that is relevant to your field and do it to the best of your ability.

#

Do not focus on things that have nothing to do with your field.

#

Show consistency in your style.

open current
#

Thank you for replying 🫡

frozen rover
# open current Thank you for replying 🫡

How experienced are you when it comes to making a UI? Let's say I wanna ask you to copy State of Decay 2's UI style? Can you recreate it? If so how much would you charge for it? How long is it gonna take for you to make it?

wraith mortar
#

@spice dagger is this acceptable?

You are responsible for your tasks so make an effort to reach out if any problems occur. If your tasks are late or done incorrectly it will be held against you and it may affect payment.
#salary-jobs message

It would be nice if we can report Manny's post in that channel

#

Was browsing the ads and they're basically saying they have an arbitrary subjective clause to not pay people 😄

#

They sound like sociopaths

spice dagger
#

Its on individuals to properly vet who they work with.

#

We don't want to be involved in that, its to much.

#

That ad should just simply be a red flag to anyone with common sense.

wraith mortar
#

Fair point, thanks for clarifying

spice dagger
#

It would be great if our Job Board was as safe as possible, but its just not a realistic goal for us.

#

Given how large the community is here, its rare that we get complaints.

#

Which either means they don't happen often, or people are handling them between themselves.

#

Both of those outcomes are as reasonable as its going to get TBH.

#

When something does come up, we take it seriously and we investigate as much as we can, but at the end of the day the majority of those cases end up being placed on the individuals as they should have taken more precautions.

#

The most we can do is ban obvious bad actors (which does happen often).

#

We can't get peoples money back, we can't outright stop people from being scammed.

#

The way we look at it is that by not getting involved and making it clear that its not on us, should theoretically help people to be more cautious and take the necessary steps to protect themselves from fraud.

#

If we don't put up a big satefy net, people take it more seriously.

#

As shitty as that might sound.

#

lol

#

Tough love basically.

#

If you could call it that.

chilly sundial
#

Speaking of policing the job board, it seems to be an often slept on channel (in regards to people not following posting rules)
Fairly frequently I see unpaid salary jobs, rev-shares that offer no equity, or freelance gigs with no payment. Now, I imagine a lot of this could be fixed if we could report posts by Manny, but it seems that due to it's permissions, Quinn just doesn't have it.

I vaguely remember a fix for this being talked about, but do you know if it's still going ahead?

spice dagger
#

Ill ask Nick if he had plans for a reporting feature on Quinn in the Job Board for his next update.

chilly sundial
#

Thanks 🙂

spice dagger
#

Moderating the Job Board is very time consuming.

chilly sundial
#

I'll bet

spice dagger
#

Its well enough to just read each one, but most of the time you don't know if its legit until you contact the person and find out they lied or there was fine print that changes the offering in a meaningful way.

#

We don't have the time to contact each lister and verify their claims about the listings.

#

Id just recommend to people to just simply report them directly to us.

#

And we will look into it on a case by case basis.

#

Having an easier reporting mechanism would obviously aid in that

chilly sundial
#

I can definitely see why it gets less attention for rule violations, because the violations are never really egregious and anyone with eyes will probably read "no payment" and stay far away.

As for scams and such, there's only so much you can do without taking the job lol, but I definitely think being able to report the posts via Quinn might help keep them in the right lane at the very least

spice dagger
#

So ill make sure Nick is aware.

wraith mortar
#

What if instead of different / commands it was one command with dropdown options
That way they can't reasonably make a mistake choosing the wrong command

#

Not sure if its always malicious

#

They have to specifically state if its paid, rev share, etc.

spice dagger
#

@wraith mortar It will likely just take the form of the RightClick->App->Report feature already available

wraith mortar
#

I mean for when they post the job

spice dagger
#

I see.

chilly sundial
spice dagger
#

I think our documentation is pretty reasonable in its clarity.

#

I can count on 1 hand how many times people have come to me confused about how to make a specific listing.

#

I would argue that most listings you think dont belong in a particular channel, were done that way on purpose.

#

Its not uncommon.

wraith mortar
#

Ya but no one reads 😄

#

Fair point tho

chilly sundial
#

If no one reads, are they gonna read a dropdown? :P

spice dagger
#

We cant pre screen listings

#

To make sure they go where they belong.

#

Its one of those things where the effort and barriers to ensure compliance outweigh the benefit.

chilly sundial
spice dagger
#

Absolutely, thats exactly why they do it.

#

There would be no other reason.

#

Which just means you dont want to work for them anyway.

#

They just out themselves as far as I reckon.

chilly sundial
#

Yeah it's a bit of a fallacy for sure

wraith mortar
#

Guess it must be pretty frustrating trying to make a rev share project that no one wants to join
But there's a reason no one is willing to give them funding

spice dagger
#

Yep

chilly sundial
#

Yeah there's more eyes, but those eyes read "no payment, volunteer only" and keep scrolling 🤣

spice dagger
#

Cant blame people for not wanting to work for free.

chilly sundial
wraith mortar
#

And also if I wanted to make a rev share project myself I have people who know me, who might be willing to help kick it off
They don't have those contacts for a reason, because they don't have the experience required to make a game, you gain those contacts along with the experience
So generally rev share projects aren't going to succeed

spice dagger
#

Yep agreed, I think game jams are a great place for real rev share projects to seed.

#

You only do those things out of passion

#

And passion is what rev shares thrive on

#

For good or bad

#

lol

wraith mortar
#

Epic wouldn't give me a megagrant for Deltanian Invasion lol 🙁

#

Guess it probably wouldn't make a lot of money

spice dagger
#

Man, the number of applicants for those types of grants would be immense.

wraith mortar
#

Yep

spice dagger
#

I wouldn't put anyone down for being knocked back on a megagrant

#

Just so competitive

wraith mortar
#

Yeah and I don't think an arcade game like that really makes the cut

spice dagger
#

I would think that projects that align with Epics goals are more likely to succeed.

wraith mortar
#

Yeah, something that shows off the engine's rendering capabilities

chilly sundial
#

If you're making some revolutionary tool or something metaverse related you're pretty much guaranteed I bet

wraith mortar
#

Or something that shows off what it generally isn't very capable of, like an RTS, lol

spice dagger
chilly sundial
#

ayyyy

wraith mortar
#

Oh yuck, need a shower

chilly sundial
#

🤣

spice dagger
#

Im serious though, it wouldnt surprise me if thats part of the criteria.

wraith mortar
#

Gotta wash the metaverse off my brain

spice dagger
#

Heh

wraith mortar
#

I can't think of anything more uninspired

spice dagger
#

But its the hip new thing, didn't you know.

#

Tim said so

wraith mortar
#

It reeks of cryptobro NFT slop

spice dagger
#

I get the same feeling with VR, very gimmicky IMO.

chilly sundial
#

I look forward to potential VR advancements, it has some promises even though a lot of what I see is slop. AR is the big one I see no future for in games, but that may just be me being cynical

formal burrow
#

I expect AR to be situational and gameified or assisting in task completion.

VR is dependent on a few technology advancements to really hit their pinnacle in the future but it's reminiscent of early 90s game dev moving into post-Carmack's rendering formula.

oblique ice
#

metaverse still at here? i though not around, since not many mention or show it

magic solstice
wraith mortar
#

And I wouldn't start that kind of project 😄 Not with randoms/strangers

magic solstice
wraith mortar
magic solstice
#

Ahh my bad

clear rampart
#

rev share what? what does that mean?

#

I assume revenue-shared jobs

chilly sundial
#

Yeah, you work for a percentage of revenue on launch. The main problem with them is that often the games don't end up launching because people have bills to pay, or if they do launch, then X% of $0-$2000 is not really worth the commitment of a year

frozen rover
chilly sundial
#

Again still not necessarily. On a revshare you rely on marketing the same way as most solo's, which is luck. It could be the best damn game in the most popular genre ever fitting a niche everyone wants to be filled yet if no one sees the game, no one sees the game

#

Not to mention you're going to have to pull in pretty large amounts of mone

#

Even if the game took a fairly high after fees revenue of 50k, if you're on 30% or whatever, you'd be better off working at mcdonalds for a lot of the world

#

Obviously your local circumstances factor into that

frozen rover
chilly sundial
#

indeed, and that's why the professionals a lot desire on such projects don't want to dedicate their relatively well paid time to helping projects for no return :P

#

Best path for revshare will always be legitimate friendships rather than internet randoms, it will be your only way to get experienced people and your best chance at making sure it doesn't fall apart

grave cove
#

Or if they're going to give their free time, it's going to be on their own projects that they some passion for (in one aspect or another, even if they're not planning to ship)

clear rampart
#

Question. So I just finished CobraCode's course for 2D/3D PaperZD development. Awesome tutorial. I went off to buy the 2D/3D Action Platformer course. Should I just try to develop a game portfolio instead? Or do both?

unkempt crescent
#

getting your hands dirty with real development is always better imo, even if it's only for port

clear rampart
#

hmm doing both seem to be hard. I know what I want to make but I currently think I'm only scratching the surface, which is why I grabbed the 2nd course.

Unless I try a new approach? Only use courses/tutorials only when I need to develop a game?

brisk nebula
#

If I were to chime in, I learned a lot from purchasing some of the items from the unreal fab store. Someone could have created a wall run with the unreal 3rd person template or someone created an inventory system. Those templates were learning experiences.

digital gate
# clear rampart hmm doing both seem to be hard. I know what I want to make but I currently think...

Yeah if you can break down your idea until you can’t figure out a smaller chunk, then you either can do that chunk or you can look into a tutorial focused on that to “unlock” techniques, then you’re gonna have immersed yourself in applied learning and will also be more likely to build something that doesn’t follow any one tutorial- a portfolio made from following tutorials is likely not enough.

Say you want to make a game where you can get into and out of cars. Maybe you followed some tutorials before and you know some basic names for things. You could google “unreal gta clone cars” and try to find a full tutorial for this, or you might break it down individually: you need to change the possessed pawn of your controller, you need to teleport a pawn into a specific location relative to the car, you need to change the pawns animation, you need to add new widgets when you’re in the car, you need an understanding of the car pawns in the engine…

So you can look into each one of those either from the outset or as they come up, and you’ll probably retain a lot more of what you learn. Another benefit is that when you want to make something fresh, you don’t have to wait for somebody else to make a tutorial for the entire thing

brittle breach
#

what is the most in demand ramification in UE5 right now? asking as someone who is trying to decide on a path. (former 2D artist)

#

I heard the industry is pretty rough but I doubt is as bad as concept art.

#

if someone has some opinion on the subject would love to hear

#

my priority is to get a skill that allows me to get freelance gigs, as my savings are not that huge

#

I did level design and assets with some blueprints a looong while ago prior to my 2D career so just to say I know where I'm getting into

#

just no idea of the state of the industry and so on

fiery plinth
#

an age old question that there isn't really an answer to, for every industry

#

state of the industry should be an easy google search, up to you to decide how bad you think it is

brittle breach
#

but then if its not as bad as concept art, I would be ok with taking that jump

fiery plinth
#

im essentially nobody with little to show, so take it with a grain of salt, but ten years go I gave up on every other role to pursue programming thinking that games needed programmers and every other role was unviable and too saturated since I struggled getting my foot in the door in any other way

#

so ten years later, and perhaps due to selective reading or bias, seems like all the roles i gave up are having a better time than programming

#

simply put, there's just too many factors to determine whether you'll have success or not, but really across the world employment rates and wages just aren't doing well, regardless of how we look at the games industry, if it's something you really want to get into, you'll need a solid plan on getting noticed and getting your foot in a door

fiery plinth
brittle breach
#

hey sorry to hear that, if it means something, 2D artists got screwd up by AI and most of us lost our jobs.

#

but yeah I get your point, every career is bad and just gotta embrace something and win the competition

#

just trying to understand which career is less screwd

fiery plinth
#

not sure how saturated the field is now but you can also look into teaching, and for adjacent roles the whole vtubing thing is pretty big, likely good money to be made drawing 2d avatars

#

the teaching gigs might be a little on the pyramid scheme side, but I preferred teaching humans over ai

magic solstice
#

Can I use copyright music for my game build for epic Megagrants?

void gust
#

Like anything else that is copyrighted, you need permission from the copyright owner.

tribal viper
#

Do Sony and Microsoft accept games approval and grant you a developer kit and everything if you just built the city and there's a lot of marketplace assets in my game like buildings would I still have a chance can someone please help me I'm getting a map the size of GTA v

#

City will be built but il describe how I want it I'm the director of this project

#

I'm getting a city made huge with my theme

#

The assets like guns cars animations weapons I mean

#

I hope someone can get back to me asap 🙂

void gust
#

Didn't Microsoft just lay off over 10,000 employees and stopped funding game projects?

chilly sundial
#

They wouldn't be funding the project

fervent knoll
#

hey~!

tribal viper
#

Hey

#

I mean I've got the story characters everything

#

I do it by myself

#

Just need a city built not from marketplace

#

I don't really model

#

It's a long third person shooter open world mafia type game

#

Story mode

#

I'm spending money on my project then showing it to Xbox@id

#

Is it worth it

#

Will I get I dev kit

#

I've been working on this bloody game for years

#

But I don't know how to get the maps of a city

#

What can I do I can do anything except model characters or maps or buildings

low crystal
#

Bruh what

#

Learn to 3d model

#

Or pay someone to do it

#

Simple

#

Or buy assets

tribal viper
#

I'd buy assets but I don't own licence to them

#

They are expensive

#

I'd have to learn how to 3d model then I guess what be the hardest part

#

How do I learn

#

Where do I even begin

sand glade
#

blender's a good software to start learning 3D modeling, lots of beginner tutorials out there for it too

round radish
void gust
#

You also need a pretty unique idea to get funding from a company like Microsoft.

round radish
#

Don't want another MindsEye!

low crystal
#

Why is Microsoft funding a point of convo lately? I feel like I’ve seen it come up a lot

#

Wait nvm it’s the same guy bringing it up lmao

#

Even in my novice stage as I am, know that a huge company funding my game idea is the longest of long shots

low crystal
#

i was hoping one day to aim for tech artist

chilly sundial
#

becoming a programmer absolutely isn't an awful idea

low crystal
#

I’d imagine it’s not as crowded as 3d modeler or concept artist but and I hate to bring it up because it’s the same old shit the ai stuff makes me a bit anxious.

vivid kernel
round radish
void gust
#

Have you tried using AI to make 3D models? It's horrible.

#

Even it could make the perfect, flawless, 3D models then it still doesn't guarantee that you'll make a great game or movie. Disney has already fired over 10,000 artists, if I remember correctly, to use AI for post processing their movies. But they keep losing billions of dollars because no one wants to watch that shit. AI can't save bad ideas.

oblique ice
#

yes, i also seen the people sharing their models make by machine learning, it's sheet

round radish
#

The problem with ai 3d models is that you can't easily tweak them.

#

If the prompt bros generate a lovely model, but the art director says, "hey, can you change X..." they're usually screwed.

void gust
#

Just get AI to tweak it bruh. You're doing it all wrong!/s

tribal viper
#

I dont own the assets unless I select business licence prior to buying the assets I've been buying them on the personal licence

#

That's where I don't own them

chilly sundial
#

you don't own the assets period, but you can use them in commercial means with either license

#

the business license is for if you're earning more than $100,000

void gust
#

It even says in the fine print that you don't own the assets no matter which license you choose. What you're buying is permission to use it.

round radish
#

Do you need to buy the business licence for assets you use if you make enough?

oblique ice
#

can just make simple block models

round radish
elfin dawn
round radish
#

Np!

steep ingot
#

Hello. Better to post this in the job board channels, please

rain mango
chilly sundial
#

AI isn't bringing many rapid changes in game development industry, aside from Microsoft who invest heavily in the ai space so it's kinda understandable they're doubling down

glacial cedar
#

Ive been making a 3d asset pack for a while now and in the beginning i wasnt that serious about it but now i am

#

And so looking back at the models i made like 2 months ago is so goddamn infuriating

#

All the topology is like off and weird so i gotta rebuild some of it

woeful iron
#

it's good to see that you're improving at least

glacial cedar
#

Yes but also because ive changed what im tryna make

jagged leaf
#

@glacial cedar did you use any tutorials or walkthroughs in your learning?

molten halo
#

anyone know where I should be looking for community managers for my game? I can post in t the hire a freelancer but if there's some forum where posting would get higher targeted visibility, would love to know

glacial cedar
#

kinda learned a bit from him

#

but if ur super new u should learn from the bare bones basic

#

like the donut tutorial from blender guru

jagged leaf
#

Ya prpbably staeting at the beginning. More ita the first time ice seen anyone ask

regal kettle
#

Heyy hi mates. I’m 39 years old and have been working professionally as a Full-Stack Developer for 13 years.
I’m currently the Technical Lead for several projects in the real estate sector, working with CI/CD, microservices, .NET Core 8, and all the best practices and modern development standards.
Throughout my career, my main foundation has been C# .NET and all its evolutions. I’ve faced just about every kind of challenge you can imagine: facial recognition systems, legacy systems for multinational companies, global digital banking platforms, and even systems for managing medication administration in public hospitals.
I’ve always gravitated towards backend work logic, and one of the things I love most: solving complex problems and processes behind the scenes. The more code, the better, haha.
I grew up playing video games and have always dreamed of working in game development. Whenever I had the chance, I was there building bots for Ultima Online or World of Warcraft, haha. Today I know that, regardless of the programming language, if it’s code, I can solve any problem and deliver what’s needed and I’ll learn whatever is necessary to do so.
Right now, I’m trying to transition into game development, although I’m not entirely sure where to start or what my first steps should be. I had some contact with C++ back in my Computer Science degree (I actually like the language), and I’ve recently gone back to studying C++ alongside Unreal Engine 5.
So, if you guys have any advice on which path I should take, where to look for “junior” freelance opportunities, or how to break into the industry, it’s more than welcome.
My DM are open!
Thank you!\

void gust
glacial cedar
wraith mortar
#

@regal kettle don't send unsolicited DMs to people

#

Its against server rules

jagged leaf
void gust
jagged leaf
ivory echo
#

A newer version of Blender 🙃

void gust
# jagged leaf what would you replace it with

I have ZBrush now, but I have to learn to use it first, lol (after I finish my current project). Adobe also gave me Substance 3D Modeller so I'll check that out. Will also need to learn a CAD program because I like to make a lot of hard surface models.

glacial cedar
glacial cedar
regal kettle
strong dove
#

What are some good ways for a UE beginner to get started on production projects for learning. I have over 6 years of experience in Unity. But I am switching over to UE.

spice dagger
#

One way to get started, would be to look at the Template Projects that come with the Engine.

#

Come up with an idea to tweak them

#

Then research and implement that tweak.

#

Get familiar with the Editor

#

Get familiar with Blueprint

#

Etc etc

#

With learning anything new, you have to start at the bottom.

strong dove
# spice dagger What do you mean on Production Projects?

As in, work with teams that are developing an actual game. Not just portfolio projects. That way I could learn on the job - Don't mind interning for free for a few hours a week.
I have a bunch of tutorial courses I am working on from Stephen but I wanted some real experience as well.

spice dagger
#

Depending on your experience and field, you might be very limited, as its unlikely that major projects are going to hire individuals with no specific experience in Unreal if thats the Engine they are working with.

#

You can take a look at our Job Board

strong dove
#

The #rev-share-jobs is something I’ve always wondered about. I’m glad something like this exists.

rain mango
round radish
# rain mango

I got mine because they found my github and reached out.

woeful iron
#

how does one just find a github?

#

or do you have a prominent project?

round radish
#

I have no idea.

#

Maybe google? Lol

finite knoll
jagged leaf
# rain mango

hate to say it, because linkedin is basically facebook with suits, but I've found the last few jobs there. Seems everything is there now, and networking is just trash, at least for me.

grave cove
#

please read #instructions for a more appropriate place for this. thanks

reef kiln
#

Sorry I had no idea. I tried to post in the job chat but I cant because I need to have my own server which I dont have. I just a disabled veteran that had an idea for a game and a dream to get it made. I really dont know what im doing or where to go, ive got no money but the payments would be 70% what the game makes

grave cove
#

No worries. You're not the first and you won't be the last.

reef kiln
#

If I want to create a game I need to make a server so do I make the server the same name as my game or how do I do it lol, I dont know a single thing about game creations, im just the idea man and I know the direction i want it to go.

spare wave
# rain mango

One random day there was an e-mail in my inbox, the e-mail looked very simple, no fancy e-mail footer or anything, this caught my attention for some reason. I have no clue how they found me.

brisk nebula
# rain mango

I was very good at coding in the university. I tutored without realizing I could have been paid by the university. Some of the people I helped returned the favor with glowing recommendations.

granite solar
#

Question regarding resumes, is it generally frowned upon to mention modding tools one has developed on their resume? I don't mean making modding tools for a game I worked on, but making tools to help mod other titles. For example, I wrote a mod tool for exploring UI data at runtime for Gearbox's Wonderlands. Is that kind of stuff generally taboo for a resume? thinkr

round radish
#

Don't frame it as a modding tool? 🙂

#

Data analysis tool!

digital gate
granite solar
#

I appreciate the input!

snow pendant
#

is anyone having an issue trying to post a job with manny?

#

<@&213101288538374145> I think the bot is broken

spice dagger
#

Nope

#

Make sure you are using the /job XXX commands within the Server

#

Not as a DM to Manny.

snow pendant
#

oh you guys changed it again

#

sorry

spice dagger
#

Again? Its been that way for years.

snow pendant
finite knoll
#

I'm impressed with how ugly that font rendering is

pseudo parrot
#

Has anyone been hired from the #hire-a-freelancer board? It feels like a portfolio would get lost in there

wraith mortar
#

Also a lot of the people doing that have massive posts, it would be nice if we restricted their post length so other people don't get flooded out so easily

distant nymph
#

Hello

oblique ice
#

Hello

void gust
#

Hello

flint tundra
#

Hi everyone!
I'm currently looking to speak with an experienced Unreal Engine 5 developer about an original racing game concept I’m building up as a serious project.

To be transparent – I’m not a developer myself, but I’m the creative head behind the vision and currently setting up all the necessary groundwork (concept, team roles, planning, funding).
I’m now at the stage where I want to talk to someone from the community to evaluate the idea’s scope and technical feasibility in UE5 – and ideally form a collaboration or hire for an initial prototype.

I’d love to share the core of the concept with someone open-minded and passionate about racing games.
If you’re curious, feel free to DM me – happy to start with a casual chat. 🙂

Thanks for your time and keep up the awesome work here!

#

Best Regards from Germany

round radish
#

If you're looking to hire someone

#

A word of warning, racing games are one of the hardest for multiplayer due to their need for accurate replication. Unless it's arcade-style physics.

flint tundra
#

Thanks a lot for the quick reply and the helpful link!
I appreciate the guidance.

Just to clarify – would this still be the wrong place if I’m not hiring right away, but first looking to speak with someone about the idea and its feasibility?
The game I’m planning is an arcade-style racing game, somewhat comparable to Need for Speed in terms of vibe and direction.

Thanks again for your time!

round radish
#

This is about careers involving UE, not about specific game projects.

#

Honestly that type of question might be better asked on a forum, it'll probalby get missed on a discord-style chat.

flint tundra
#

sorry about that – I didn’t mean to go off-topic here. I’ll definitely give it a try over on the forums instead. Thanks for the heads-up! 🙏

round radish
#

No worries! You may get some good replies here too.

round radish
#

Been a while since we've seen that one.

north narwhal
round radish
#

New tactics... but the same scam photos? Lol

void gust
#

Modern blocking problems require modern solutions. points at head

north narwhal
round radish
frigid gale
#

Hi there is there any spot for 3D Modeling entry level only. Eager to begin on this career and live with it please DM. 🙂

woeful iron
low crystal
fervent palm
low crystal
#

Not games themselves but 3d modelers

round radish
#

Seems sus.

woeful iron
#

Linux Mint has always been free

worldly monolith
#

Think it's referring to crypto

woeful iron
#

I know

worldly monolith
#

You dietered me

woeful iron
#

not really

#

getting dietered is getting ignored for then someone else to say the exact same thing and getting the credit

#

the being ignored part is the important step

worldly monolith
#

Smh I wasn't being serious

woeful iron
#

of course not, you're lucifer

round radish
subtle notch
#

Greetings, I'm a freshly graduated Computer Engineering student. I'm currently starting to build my portfolio as a Unreal Engine developer. Initially, I planned to complete a couple games to show off my skills. The problem is I'm currently feeling overwhelmed by a lot of things at hand and I'm not sure how well I should polish my games. I tend to try to perfect everything and ended up stuck there for a significant amount of time. I would like to ask for advices in the direction of building my portfolio and also what aspects should I focus on. How to draw the finish line that will make my portfolio well-made enough.

Or if anybody got recommended "roadmap" or resource to follow through? Like, What do I have to achieve?

woeful iron
#

your games don't need to be fully finished for a portfolio

#

of course that is nice

#

but the most important thing it should show is the skills that are relevant to the job you're looking for

#

e.g. if you're a programmer and the art is ass, that's not that bad

#

you can also definitely put "tech demos" on your portfolio without it being a full fledged game

#

at least that's my opinion

worldly token
thorny prawn
#

@wide jetty I am trying contact you but your DMS are private and friend request pending.

#

overall all I did notice that a lot job postin'sg with "DM me/ Direct message" have does message private 🤔

regal kettle
#

Hello everyone.
I’ve been a backend/full-stack developer for over 13 years. I’m currently a technical lead at a company with several commercial projects (C#, C++, .NET, Flutter, Dart, React, microservices…). I decided to pursue this long time dream, dev for games, talked to some amazing people here on Discord, and got lots of tips.
Now, as I’m starting my second course and approaching 200 lessons focused on UE5 Blueprints and C++, I get the feeling it’s mostly about knowing the tools (IDE + Unreal Engine) and solid programming logic. It feels like developing games is the same kind of work I’ve been doing for many years just in a different domain ?
At least from a software engineer’s perspective (I know there are many other areas in game development), I was afraid it would be very different, but so far it looks a lot like my day-to-day.
Its right ?
Thanks guys!!

wraith mortar
regal kettle
thorny prawn
#

@wraith mortar is right.
Just try to make something small. It really do not even have to be a game but anything done with UE. If blueprints are much easier for you then start from it. UE do provide a lot free resource/templates/Content Examples etc that you can learn quick from them.

solar crypt
#

Hey! I’m currently looking for a passionate and reliable animator to collaborate on a Sekiro-inspired game I’m developing (using Synty assets). I’m hoping to find someone who’s just as excited about the project as I am, and who’d like to be invested in making it the best it can be.

We can definitely discuss pay and figure out something fair for both of us. If this sounds interesting to you, shoot me a message! 🙂

wraith mortar
visual roost
#

hi there,
slightly off topic, hope that’s ok

i took french as my 2nd language for a long time, but it never really clicked and i don’t wanna keep going with it.
now i’m itching to learn a new language that’ll be genuinely useful long term (career, travel, life) i care more about the quality of the countries where it’s useful than just the number of countries
if you were me what’d you pick german, spanish, or smth else and why?

woeful iron
#

depends where you would want to live / work with I guess

round radish
#

Mandarin. Most spoken language on the planet (?) and useful in the powerhouse of the Chinese market these days.

visual roost
woeful iron
#

I think german is most common though no?

#

depending on the region of course

#

probably also the easiest of the swiss languages to learn if you already know english

visual roost
visual roost
woeful iron
#

"european languages" is very broad though

#

but germanic languages are similar

wide jetty
low crystal
#

Thought at first they were talking about programming languages

rain mango
#

Does anyone in here work in movie industry or know people who work in movie industry?

woeful iron
#

probably

round radish
fervent mason
#

Hello there, I'm currently looking for any remotes intern on unreal programming for my students, are there any companies here that available? Thanks 😁

round radish
stray igloo
#

Now Hiring: Senior Backend Engineer (Africa – Remote, Long-Term)

We’re looking for a sharp, dependable Senior Backend Engineer to join our remote team.
🌍 Location: Africa only
💰 High monthly salary
📑 Long-term, stable contract

Requirements:
✅ Native-level English (clear and confident in calls)
✅ Strong backend skills (Rails, Node.js, .NET, Python, Java, etc.)
✅ Solid grasp of APIs, databases, performance, and security
✅ Serious about long-term work and delivering results

If you’ve got the skills and the communication to match, let’s talk.

wide vessel
#

Hello guys,

Im looking for a team to improve my game dev skills.

Skills that i can offer :

Project mangement

  • Organize dev teams (tools, co-working on sames tools…)
  • AWS / GCP / AZURE (Hosting,Scale game servers…)
  • NodeJS/php API microservices
  • Fresh exp in Unreal C++ / blueprints
  • Network communication client/server
  • Design backend & games servers for smooth, scales and cost optimized
  • Few hours /week /day

Skills I can’t offer :

  • Any graphic stuff 😅 , im pure dev & project manager
woeful iron
woeful iron
rain mango
woeful iron
#

well calling it a time waste is a bit extreme

#

will it make you more money? probably not

#

but it could still be useful if you live there or meaningful to yourself

rain mango
#

I have many friends who migrated and now live in Germany and other countries in Europe, they don't know any language other than theirs and English. They have no problem with it since most of the co-workers can speak and understand English.

So, instead of learning another language, they have spent their time on learning new skills which now is making them money.
About the extrenme word, well, considering that our time is precious and limited, I don't think it's extreme to call one of these options a waste of time and life. If you are not forced to learn a language, spending time on it seems like a waste of time. You may disagree and I understand that.
I know people who can speak 6-7 languages, and have spent years on learning them, but still have no skills to have a good life do you think they made the right choice!?

woeful iron
#

if they're happy with it sure

#

not everything in life is about making money

rain mango
#

I agree not everything is about making money but no offence, I personally think if something makes you happy, It does not mean it's right or good for you. Life is short, people have to choose wisely how they spend their time.
It's wise to spend time of things that make your happy and add value to your life in long term not things that make you happy and take your time.

woeful iron
#

learning a language can still add value to your life

#

interactions in a country will always be different if you know the local language compared to just english

#

even if everyone would speak english

#

it's a different way of socializing

rain mango
#

it depends on where someone lives, in my country people socialize with anyone they can speak to regardless of his/her language

simple quiver
finite knoll
#

learning a language not being "right or good for you" is certainly a hot take

chilly sundial
#

Learning a language can both add value and money to your life. Not to mention it's good for personal growth and if you're living in a country that predominantly speaks the language it's a no brainer.

Even if it didn't, people do plenty that don't directly contribute to their earnings or life. Not going to lie, this "always gotta hustle" mindset pisses me off to no end. Enjoying your life while being comfortable to do so adds more than enough value to your life without needing to spend every waking hour earning more money. I can guarantee you a polyglot with a stable job that lives comfortably and has a lot of social time (not adding much "value" or money) is going to have an infinitely better time than the person that finishes their full time job, comes home and sells their homemade wooden furniture, dropships some stuff on amazon and freelances some character art before sleeping :P

#

If you can already afford your means of living and you are comfortable with that, then you don't need to seek more value or money. That's the beauty of free time, you can do stuff that makes you happier

strange plinth
#

i would mostly says it depends on the time you got

#

for example if you have limited time, i would say learn c++ and UE instead of starting with javascript if you plan on doing some game dev but know nothing in dev

simple quiver
rain mango
rain mango
# rain mango
poll_question_text

Consider the rapid changes in game industry due to AI advancement, Do you still advise young people who have a dream of becoming a game maker to learn Unreal?

victor_answer_votes

17

total_votes

24

victor_answer_id

1

victor_answer_text

Yes

round radish
green matrix
#

hello guys, is there real to find mentor for BP review ? i dont need like "tech me how write movement code etc" . I am looking for someone who has mastered BP's or UE . for check my code and give me some advices how to improve.

rain mango
# rain mango
poll_question_text

If you are employed, How did you find your current job?

victor_answer_votes

10

total_votes

17

victor_answer_id

1

victor_answer_text

LinkedIn

forest hinge
#

https://youtu.be/PXAWyQO-Pr8

YouTube
Crazy Family
Project "TheLastOfBreath"

Це мій проект, над яким я працював більше півроку. Я використовував такі програми, як Blender 3.4 і Unreal Engine 5.4. Зараз пишу сценарій, який є досить цікавим. Буду радий, якщо хтось зможе запропонувати ...

▶ Play video
#

Maybe someone will express their opinion about the project, it's very important to me. And I'll be glad if someone recommends me somewhere, because I don't have the energy to work for free.

low crystal
#

Bruh people are wild

rain mango
# rain mango

Interesting, most people in here have found their job on LinkedIn and discord!

pallid palm
#

Same - surprised by the results.
I will say I am surprised how Discord has ended up being my #1 source of work, and have had a few bites on LinkedIn as well.

tribal viper
#

I'm uploading a fbx character I made I intend to use marketplace assets to make him punch kick shoot example ido I select import animations in the tick box

#

Or not as I'm using marketplace

rain mango
grave cove
zenith merlin
#

Hi, a little context before I ask the question: I am from Madagascar and I have a day job which is stable but hardly enough to care for my family. I have worked on improving my art skills but the market for artists is quite crowded so I started learning gamedev and finally ended up making systems and basically UI/UX in unreal.
I think going for Art as a global thing then refine the search by adding skills in UI/UX was the right choice, for now at least.
I made a Fab asset which is not selling much since June but from what I see it's the same for everyone else. I think it looks good as a showcase of what I can do though. I got an offer to work on a project recently that I can do part-time but that I haven't started yet because I wanted to participate in a Jam next week to have just one more thing to show off before I dive into the job.
My questions are, how much should I expect with my background when looking for a job online? Is it generally a problem for employers that paypal can not be used here but mostly wire transfers, money gram, western union (Fab and hyperwallet uses Money Gram for my country by the way)?
I am also making a game, that I sent the idea to the megagrant as a concept with a limited prototype. So in my mind, the way right now would be either to keep working on that game and eventually probably find publishers to fund it and release it, find more projects that pays to work on once this one is over or just build things to be sold on Fab. Which path do you think is the best one if I needed a fast but stable income? I am thinking finding a publisher is kinda risky as from what I learned on internet they take all the profit until they get the amount they funded then it's divided into percentages...anyway that's a lot of questions, I hope it was ok to ask those here. Also if you need to see my website, I can share it.

void gust
#

Nice try, buddy.

digital gate
# zenith merlin Hi, a little context before I ask the question: I am from Madagascar and I have ...

Without seeing the game project or the work product you’re capable of offering, it’s difficult to say how much you should expect, or whether the game is a better venture than contract work.

Contract work tends to be the more stable path (compared to selling games). You usually earn less from contracting than from a “successful” game, but you take a lot less risk when contracting than— you won’t have months or years riding on whether the stars align, and if your customer isn’t happy or their game doesn’t do well, there’s usually another customer nearby. You can’t really pivot to a different release-ready game on that timeframe.

But you need to decide whether you’re going to track your hours and charge hourly, or whether you’re going to charge for individual projects or milestones (even if you estimate that cost hourly).

Maybe figure out the amount of money you’re hoping to earn to cover your expenses, and divide that by the amount of hours you can spend working on development contracts, to get a baseline of what you need to ask for?

I didn’t start with much of a resume at all. I’m in the US, and when I first started out (8 years ago?) I think I was asking for something like $15-$25(USD) per hour, and I eventually secured a longer contract that was in the middle of that range.

#

Separately to all of that, I really can’t recommend working with a publisher unless they do something significant- managing Steam isn’t significant enough. Making some causal Youtube Shorts isn’t significant enough.

#

If you’re working with an established publisher and they cover the cost of development and they’re porting the game to different consoles, and they’re getting you spots in different marketing beats… that’s one thing, that’s pretty reasonable. They might want to own the IP, they might give you a really small percentage after they recoup costs, but they essentially have taken all the risk and are serious about the game’s success.

#

It’s a sliding scale between risk the publisher is taking and what you should give them.

zenith merlin
#

Thank you for your answer, it makes me hopeful for finding a job. I will focus on that and building my portfolio.

rain mango
zenith merlin
round radish
tribal viper
#

I plan to import an fbx character and use animations from marketplace should I tick yes to import animations and would be exported time?

digital gate
# tribal viper I plan to import an fbx character and use animations from marketplace should I t...

I mean, this being #career-chat I guess you’re wanting a spin towards this being a sustainable income?

I think you should make a very large plugin that allows people to describe how they want assets imported in natural language and which auto-handles the import with no user prompting. Like somebody downloads your plugin and they only have to drop assets in, and it never asks them another prompt, and it’s perfect every time.

But if you ask in #animation or #ue5-general or #ue4-general somebody might know if you should import animations

toxic zinc
#

qualituy slavic orchestra music

void gust
ivory echo
exotic trench
#

Am I model and am interested

spice dagger
#

Please use the Job Board.

strange plinth
upper sparrow
#

I'm out of work right now, after seven years of doing car commercials (preparing CAD data, building environments, animating videos, maintaining a configurator application... bit of an Unreal generalist I suppose). Seems that field is almost dead, with barely any positions on offer, unless you are a CAD modeller. I've studied game development, I have a personal project, and most of my car work was in realtime, so I applied to a few environment/cinematic/technical artist positions in games, but no response. Do you guys maybe have any suggestions on what to do with that background? Maybe a field I wasn't thinking of, something that helps get the application get through,...?

brisk nebula
clear rampart
#

Hm question. Is it difficult to get internship for game design? How long should the internship take before stepping into an actual GameDesign job?

woeful iron
#

I'm not a game designer but I would say it's one of the more difficult positions to get an internship in probably

gritty socket
#

Yeah it's pretty difficult - I'd say most internships should be 6 or 12 months before you'd be able to move into an 'actual' game design job as a junior.

#

An issue as well is companies running internships just for free labour with no real shot of you getting employed after.

idle maple
void gust
#

Tech design? What is that, another word for computer programmer or software engineer?

grave cove
# void gust Tech design? What is that, another word for computer programmer or software engi...

It doesn't always mean the same thing at every studio. It's not the same as computer programmer or software engineer, although people with that background can/will have that job.
I've seen it mean designers that can program, designers that can script or designers that write tools for other designers. It tends to be a bridging roll that combines parts of the design department with the engineering one. Similar to how tech art bridges some of the art & engineering divide.

void gust
#

This same guy named COMMUNITY_POSTS keeps spamming the same scam.

twin horizon
#

Hey!

I’m a little lost right now and had a couple of questions ,I think this is one of the best places to ask. I’m a student at Gnomon -School of visual effects and about to graduate soon. I’ve been pretty generalist so far, modeling, texturing, Unreal Engine, etc. But lately I’ve really gotten into rigging and have built a couple of character rigs. The thing is, I don’t want to box myself into just rigging,I feel like knowing only that might not be enough.

I started looking into technical animation, and from what I’ve seen it covers a mix of things like rigging, animation blueprints/state machines, mocap cleanup and retargeting, cloth sim, and physics sim.

So my question is:

Is technical animation and having those kinds of skills something studios are actually looking for, like Is it in demand?

Any thoughts would mean a lot,thanks !

clear rampart
#

is it in the concept of designing the systems properly to coordinate with all the developers and while creating a document for it? Cuz I'm into that 👀
Having to create automated systems for a faster production and organization of the of the game's code is what I would love to do, other than gamedesign

clear rampart
#

After researching and talking to someone about it, it is a generalist in a way which is pretty cool.

round radish
winged dragon
#

Do you think it's worth pursuing a career in 3D / games now ? I spent the last 3-4 years working as a 3d / unreal generalist for a start up and I am not specialised, I did a little bit of everything.
Now I need another job and it feels like I need to start all over again focusing on one area only and this really kills my motivation. It's like I wasted 4 years and now I'm starting from the beginning again. And I do not enjoy this at all.
I'm starting to think if I should pursue another type of job/work now. Maybe something with AI as this is viral now. I don't know. But I'm really not in the mood for starting all over again with 3D ....
Any tips ?

#

I spent 4 years working, just to probably start as a junior now again. I don't feel confident and it really kills my mood. I don't know what to do. Is it worth it

#

Not to mention that it feels over saturated with artists now. I just applied for a vacancy a few days ago , it turned out that over 1000 people applied for it

woeful iron
#

wdym you have to start over

#

economy in most places is not great atm and hiring in any field is slowing down

#

but yeah probably games even worse

#

either way I'd say you should look for something you enjoy

#

and not just jump on things cause it's viral

#

cause trends pass by

winged dragon
#

I did a lil bit of modeling, a bit of animation, a bit of characters, a bit of anything else. For 3-4 years as that was needed in the start up . This only gives me basic skills in everything.
But bigger companies don't need this, they want you to be very good at one thing. Which Im currently not

#

and it feels like i have to start over and focus on one thing

#

and I really don't have the motivation for it as I already spent 4 years in the field just so I can start as a junior again ...

#

I am wondering if it's worth doing all that again, which I will not enjoy much, considering the fact that the market is over saturated, there arent much vacancies etc

idle maple
#

Not right channel

rustic tide
#

There are so many people,rhi channel no people...

finite knoll
#

that doesn't mean you're suddenly going to get an answer from posting in the wrong channel

ashen lynx
# twin horizon Hey! I’m a little lost right now and had a couple of questions ,I think this is...

It is fine to box yourself into one thing. In fact, that is the only way to be really good at it. And your goal is to box yourself into what you enjoy, not what is in demand or pays more in the instant. Tech anim demand is still there, just bias shifted a little from what it used to be. If you are good or potentially good, you will not wait at the door for long. Just make sure not to chain yourself with something you dislike.

twin horizon
ashen lynx
# twin horizon I see,I enjoy rigging and know a decent amount.I just want to learn and branch o...

Trying to search for skills to learn like that is fruitless because there are so many and in each case you will be applying but a fraction of possible knowledge on the topic. Pick a problem in animation and try to solve it. The less travelled is the problem and the more elegant is your solution, the better it gets. It can be anything from writing IK solver for an unusual bone setup to writing a simulation fully mimicking some kind of anatomic process. Just make sure that solution is yours. Implementation of existing techniques these days is worth way less because any decent coder with zero specific knowledge in rigging and anim can vibe code any of existing solvers, systems or tools in hours using artificial humanoid as assistant.

rotund heron
#

Hey everyone, I’m new to UE5 and I’m trying to figure out how to get started on a team project. I’m really interested in FPS/milsim-style games (think Arma/Squad) and my biggest strength is that I know a lot about trauma medicine and TC3, so I’d love to contribute to a medical system or other gameplay mechanics.

For someone like me who isn’t a programmer or artist yet, what’s the best way to get involved with an existing project or team so I can learn while contributing?

round radish
#

Game jams is probably a good place to start trying to contribute?

#

You may find that a lot of the people starting such projects are in your shoes, though. They have ideas, but not the skills to implement them.

rotund heron
#

My thought is to make it work small first, then bring the scale up. Like: can we make the animations feel smooth, can we build a soundscape that really pops, can we get those little immersion details right?

I’m not looking for a CoD clone. I’d love to help make more of a “soldier simulator,” where the character is as capable as he should be, and the real key to winning is teamwork and individual skill. It’s definitely niche, but I think that’s part of the appeal.

void gust
#

I think that you should try the different parts of game design and then decide which one you like the most. That can be programming, art, animation, etc.

#

Most people will recommend tutorials and courses, but I recommend that you get used to reading a lot.

rotund heron
#

I'm leaning towards programming

oblique ice
#

programming have many ☺️

chilly sundial
#

This isn't the place for hiring people.
You'll want to read #instructions which has all the info you need for posting to the job board. Also, you should check out the #rules on crossposting 🙂

bold dawn
round radish
rotund heron
#

I dont want it to be a survival shooter

#

I’d want it to be PvE and PvP

#

Like you could make missions

#

Like in Arma 3

round radish
#

So arma 3 then? 🙂

#

I'm not saying it's a bad idea or anything.

#

Or something like war thunder?

rigid bluff
rotund heron
#

I wish I could disagree

lofty crane
#

Does anyone have any tips when it comes to hiring people for vfx/Niagara work? It seems to be a bit of a difficult thing to find someone who can do it while still keeping within resource constraints

oblique ice
#

is your like in Arma 3 single, multiplayer? 🤔

oblique ruin
rotund heron
#

That’s DCS Tacview

rotund heron
gritty flax
#

Hi everyone — is there anyone here who’s currently (or was) a gameplay programmer, or who has managed gameplay programmers, who can give quick feedback on my resume? It’s for a Career Track task from my programming school. I’d really appreciate the help — thank you!

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Ze0MQkn2R0x-bT09Q1Lf0BhQ_27eRA3-/edit?usp=sharing&ouid=114717132510303052030&rtpof=true&sd=true

Google Docs
Resume.docx

Akhmad Tadzhuddinov +7(987)471-60-00 | tadzhuddinov.akhmad@gmail.com | Telegram | GitHub | Itch.io Education Ufa State Aviation Technical University Russia, Ufa Mathematical support and administration of information systems 2020-2024 Peter the Great St.Petersburg Polytechnic University Russia, Sa...

finite knoll
#

So where is it?

#

(because this is asking to ask)

gritty flax
spare wave
#

also your location, also if you have work permit in EU/US

void gust
steep ingot
# gritty flax Hi everyone — is there anyone here who’s currently (or was) a gameplay programme...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLyFbvkpLJs

YouTube
Jorge Rodriguez
How To Get A Job In Game Design - Part 3 - How To Write A Resume

Get Mentoring on ADPList: https://adplist.org/

Questions? I will answer them in a future video! Ask them either below in the comments or on my Twitter: https://twitter.com/cubesos

Playlist: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHX0UtFzjqA&list=PLW3Zl3wyJwWPoqjWDgybGxOAZhdUBAhyR

00:00 Introduction
00:22 What Happens To Your Resume When You Apply?
0...

▶ Play video
rain mango
rain mango
#

Besides there are many Niagara Tuts on YT and you can contact the tut creators for this to hire them. Most of the tuts I watched for my work, were created by talented Indians and you can find them on YT.

odd dome
lofty crane
# rain mango Well, in my opinion, you can check fab for niagara effects that you have in mind...

The main issue as far as I'm concerned is verifying the skill of people,not how much they cost. I'm not looking at freelance hires right now, the budgets etc I have require hiring from specific pools of people.
So mostly,how do you test people who do this kind of work? Metrics in terms of performance are most important, but I haven't had experience with employees in that side of unreal yet

odd dome
rain mango
# lofty crane The main issue as far as I'm concerned is verifying the skill of people,not how ...

It's a bit complicated if you look at it in this way. I think with niagara systems first you have to create the effect then test it performance and if it's not good, then you have to try to make it performant.
I'm not a niagara expert but I have created simple effects such as objects on fire, waterfalls, dust, devildust and a few more. But In my experience with Niagara affects you should always first create the effect you want, then think about how to make it more performat and easy to run.
Niagara allow you to use CPU or GPU and it's not hard to make a niagara effect performant. Most of the time by adjusting a few settings in the material or sprite numbers you can increase the performance.

lucid dagger
round radish
errant bear
#

Hi, I'm Sajad Mighani, a junior Unreal Engine developer.
Could anyone kindly review my resume and portfolio?
I have been actively seeking salaried positions and freelance opportunities for the past three months without success, and I would greatly appreciate your expertise in reviewing my resume and portfolio. Could you please provide insights into potential reasons for my challenges, identify any gaps or areas for improvement, and offer guidance on steps I can take to enhance my job search prospects?
Here is my resume:
https://rxresu.me/saja386/sajad-mighani-resume
And also my portfolio is available here:
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1konjeWyTnznDaEqe9FkK9B-f14yyu3JL?usp=sharing
Thank you for your time.

Reactive Resume - A free and open-source resume builder

A free and open-source resume builder that simplifies the process of creating, updating, and sharing your resume.

finite knoll
#

This already sounds incredibly suspect due to the vagueness of the request, but if this is Totally Not a Scam then paid roles go on the job board (see #instructions)

rain mango
#

definitely sounds like a scam!

zenith merlin
#

Hi, so is it actually important to say how many years of experience you have in an engine? Isn't a portfolio of project better. Let's say you have 6 months in the engine but have like 5 great project to show off, what do you guys think?

round radish
#

If you have 5 great projects to show off and only 6 months in an engine, I'd be very suspicious.

#

Because that question will come up.

rain mango
#

Don't lie in your CV or portfolio, but don't give such information without them asking. Let them see your work samples first and then give them the number of years of months.

zenith merlin
#

So the question will always come up regardless of the projects so how do you really value your years of experience then? I mean for example my account on Epic community was made in 2021 when I started learning unreal but I only started making projects to show off this year. would you guys say my experience started when I started learning or when I started to make projects to show OR is it only something that you get from actually working?

rain mango
#

Take it easy, no need to worry about it if you have 5 great projects in your portfolio. If you think your good say 3 years of experience plus one year of professional experience.

zenith merlin
#

Thanks a lot, I am actually preparing to apply for a few jobs so I am figuring out how others did it.

fierce ledge
chilly sundial
#

The literal next message after a reminder about the job board 🤣

zenith merlin
#

I know I am always asking questions here but can anyone tell me what knowledge would be necessary to become a technical artist in unreal. I am already kinda used to UI/UX and I was planning on learning Materials and Niagara, Would that be enough? Also is C++ a must, I planned to start learning that last.

pallid palm
# zenith merlin I know I am always asking questions here but can anyone tell me what knowledge w...

as someone with some experience, I'd say Tech Art work varies wildly depending on the job, so I'd think a little about what you want to focus on.
Like there are film/TV virtual production tech artist jobs, there are game jobs, and even there some focus more on asset creation, and others are more technical.

Could maybe look at a job posting for your ideal jobs and start there.

Like my focus is on Sequencer, Blueprint based animation tools, and things animation related. Blueprints do everything I need currently, but C++ is on my to do list in case it comes up.

I feel like the ideal is if you can create or modify assets in DCCs (i.e. Blender/Maya), also know how to make tools for those programs, and then within Unreal you master everything Blueprint related (including what you mentioned - Materials, Niagara).
For some, blueprints are enough, but C++ is ideal for more advanced jobs that focus on the technical.

zenith merlin
# pallid palm as someone with some experience, I'd say Tech Art work varies wildly depending o...

Thank you for your answer, is "2D technical artist" a thing? My focus is pretty much on translating my 2D skills to Unreal. I am also interested in 3D as it is really useful for improving my art skills and I got the two adobe substance programs free from posting a product on Fab, but didn't use them yet. Learning to make 3D things is not super high on my list but it is there, would you say it's necessary?

pallid palm
# zenith merlin Thank you for your answer, is "2D technical artist" a thing? My focus is pretty ...

oh good point, that also ties into my 'varies wildly' part.
I've seen some 2D game job postings where the entire job is knowing 2D, which yes, would basically be a 2D Technical Artist job posting.
Definitely some 2D jobs out there.

However anecdotally I'd say most jobs I see, at least on my feed, are 3D, but I'm not familiar enough with the 2D world to know how much work is out there for that also!

#

Anecdotally I have seen 2D technical artist jobs come up for Unity as well - might be worth looking into learning Unity as well to diversity your skillset. Although of course not relevant to this discord. But indie 2D game job postings in Unity are something I definitely come across.

zenith merlin
#

Yeah there are jobs in unity for that but I was thinking in Unreal, UI, Materials and Niagara are using 2D textures and are necessary for every games so those could be the specialty of a technical artist.

#

But yeah that could be a very niche job market...

pallid palm
#

Yeah I wouldn't discount it completely, but if you're applying cold without a connection to someone, I'd say the vast majority of jobs will be 3D with a lot of competition for the jobs.
If you do some cool 2D work for one client, I can see that becoming a niche to fill though for sure.

icy ruin
#

Hii guys!
I just had a question; do y'all know about futuregames? (Especially the European Devs)
And if u do, what would be your opinion on it as a dev school

oblique ice
#

one of my team memeber was there to study, that all

round radish
#

Are they any good? 😛

fierce ledge
#

Friendly reminder to those new to the career chat channel. Post "looking for a person to do X" type things in the job boards. You can find out how to do that here #instructions

You'll have the most chance of finding an interested party and not have your post deleted 😉

icy ruin
oblique ice
icy ruin
rain mango
ionic sage
#

do you guys still have to go to work ? there is alien ship just showing up

void gust
spring atlas
#

Hey @unkempt skiff , please check your dm when you had time

ivory echo
fervent palm
haughty moss
#

Guys I was introduced to a website called fiverr if the web real

round radish
tribal viper
#

Who builds us the maps for the games

ivory echo
tribal viper
#

Thank you so much

ionic sage
#

it must be stressful to have to go into debt just for a living space

#

my home is a cat box size with internet, so it's free

#

that is my room, I sleep in the closet

round radish
#

I'd at least get it out of the closet and put it on teh floor.

void gust
#

But sleeping in the closet blocks out sunlight for you if you're a night owl. lurkin

round radish
#

😛

rain mango
bleak dagger
#

Some of these job offers on this server are hillarious

#

Unpaid - demands strong portfolio and good knowledge of c++ and blueprints
Lmfao

finite knoll
#

"for the exposure" vibes too

#

well if they have a strong portfolio already, why would they need this? lol

bleak dagger
ivory echo
rain mango
chilly sundial
#

Unfortunately some way or another they're going to realise that experienced professionals don't work for free

bleak dagger
chilly sundial
#

lmao just seen another (might be the same one you're on about), you don't even get in the credits with the team, you're under "volunteer contributers"

bleak dagger
round radish
rain mango
winged dragon
#

Let's say you win 300-500k from the loterry. Will you quit your current job and try something on your own/else or keep working the same?

low crystal
#

Quit job

ivory echo
#

🤣 you think you can live off 500k ?

finite knoll
#

yeah that's not a life-changing amount of money but you can definitely live off it for a few years providing you don't change your lifestyle

ivory echo
#

That’s a big if that lots of people fail to do

finite knoll
#

I probably wouldn't solo dev, too stressful. If I ran into a few million then I'd think about bootstrapping a small indie studio

round radish
#

Maybe even several.

bleak dagger
chilly sundial
#

honestly 500k is going to burn quicker than you think if you were starting a studio. People are expensive, unless you want a studio full of interns

#

Me personally, it would be just going into investements, with a little set aside for personal enjoyment and to help people close to me.
I can enjoy working, without the stress of no savings, win win

grave cove
#

Yeah, sub-$1 million isn't the windfall that it used to be. I'd probably payoff or a big chunk of my mortgage which isn't exciting or all that life changing but it'd be nice to do.

void gust
#

If you won $2M, hired 10 programmers, and paid them anywhere near what they're worth, then you might survive for a year or two. Or you could move to a third world country, pay your programmers for pennies on the dollar to save money but what if that country collapses? This happened to a guy on another server. laughcry

#

He can't leave because their government won't allow it. 🤣

bleak dagger
#

Do i need to polish the visuals and animations or is it sufficient for a programmer

woeful iron
bleak dagger
#

do i have ay chance of getting hired with that or do i need a finished game

woeful iron
#

you don't need a finished game at all

#

it's nice to have though

#

but not neccessary

wet oak
#

Hi all! 👋
I’m Klaus, a game developer [Unity and Unreal] with over 5+ years of combined experience and I’m currently refining my portfolio and resume for game dev applications and would love to get some feedback from the community. Any constructive critiques or tips would mean a lot.

🔗 Website (with resume + socials): [https://klaus117-v1.vercel.app]

🎨 Portfolio: [https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/10Et0L9rQhNKPNQf-FEIc67yKkuWvW9Hz?usp=sharing]

I’ve included readme files in the root and individual project folders as well as screen shots and gameplay videos in the Google Drive.

And I’ve been doing a DevLog on my X account (link in website)

Thanks in advance for taking the time to check it out! 🙏

finite knoll
#

the early-2000s flash style intro is a bit excessive

#

try and make the resume download just a PDF rather than a zip file

wet oak
finite knoll
#

well yeah, while it might be cool it just doesn't need to exist. that and the resume being in a zip file are just time wasting when the time as a hiring manager I would get to view your application is pretty minimal

wet oak
finite knoll
#

yes because they're completely different disciplines

#

or just have one

#

but it's annoying to have to download and then manually extract a file to see the contents rather than it just opening in my browser

wet oak
wet oak
wet oak
#

Also, any thoughts on the way my portfolio is structured? (The google drive)

bleak dagger
woeful iron
#

that's because reddit is full of people that think they're experts in fields they don't know anything about

bleak dagger
#

Haha ah well

round radish
#

If you're a CEO it would take 10 minutes.

#

You just tell all your employees to do it and that's your job done! 😄

finite knoll
bleak dagger
ivory echo
void gust
bleak dagger
void gust
#

Sounds like it.

#

A lot of people talk trash on some Discord servers, too. But Reddit is probably one of the worst.

bleak dagger
#

Not gonna lie that stung a little bit haha

void gust
#

Call him out on his bullshit and let him show you that in real time. I once had a guy tell me on another server that AI can generate a gun model that is production ready and that doing things manually is obsolete. Orly? I gave him a good reference image of an IRL gun and let him generate it. The result was okay ish, but you can see mistakes everywhere, and I told him that shit isn't even rigged or animated, so I asked him to try and do that. He said it would only take 10 minutes.

Guess what? A couple HOURS later it still isn't rigged or animated.

void gust
# bleak dagger

I know that time is relevant and all that, but how long is 10 minutes to this guy? 🤨

upper sparrow
#

Nothing more infuriating than going on a reddit post of something you are actually knowledgeable about. Unreal especially just seems to attract the worst armchair developers known to man

void gust
bleak dagger
#

He got upvoted ^^

void gust
#

Oh, so when you ask for a demonstration he magically can't do it?

bleak dagger
#

I didnt ask for a demonstration i got kinda mad XD

digital gate
# bleak dagger Hii could someone with some industry experience tell me if this is good enough a...

This level of visuals is fine.

It’s a stretch that a junior developer would turn this around in 15 minutes. You’re not really showcasing anything extraordinary, though. A number of years ago I had a similarly long video with a dozen or so diverse mechanics (at this level of impl) and was having trouble getting clients, but you might have better luck showing something that looks more “end to end”.

I would be more impressed with a UI DragDropOp and/or multiplayer (or being able to hire an NPC to handle the brew, really any pipelining), and either way I’d wanna see your implementation to judge the quality of your work.

bleak dagger
#

Inventory and equip with drag and drop, tradable companions and shopkeeper, dialogue. uhm pretty much everything you could need for a rpg

digital gate
#

Your litmus should be “Do I feel satisfied with this representation being ‘my best’”? And if you’re going to reddit for validation I think you feel you can top what you’ve shown

#

But the market is the real judge

bleak dagger
#

I just tried to get a understanding what i would actually need for a portfolio piece, im not really a designer/Artist so especially the visual part is a big problem for me

eternal briar
chilly sundial
void gust
#

So, one guy says it will take less than 15 . minutes and another guy on there says that it takes time and that you could just follow a random YouTube tutorial. 🤦‍♂️ The YouTube tutorial is longer than 15 minutes, guaranteed.

#

Just make sure not to apply to this guys company. Let him stay as a solo dev/CEO/designer/whatever.

bleak dagger
bleak dagger
grave cove
# bleak dagger Do i need a degree?

As a programmer not necessarily, but you're competing against everyone that's graduated with one. So that can set a minimum knowledge threshold you'd need to match if you're going at it without one.
And if a studio has a stack of 1000 resumes, it becomes a too easy filter to make that stack smaller.

eternal briar
bleak dagger
digital gate
bleak dagger
#

so i guess its releasing my own game and earn millions with that 😄

digital gate
woeful iron
eternal briar
woeful iron
#

that guy is way beyond what anyone would expect of a junior

digital gate
woeful iron
#

oh I didn't know he was looking for freelance gigs

digital gate
#

It’s ambiguous

#

They’re asking if the portfolio is sufficient but not specifying for which niche

grave cove
#

What the job does day-to-day is different than hiring. If I'm hiring a programmer (for unreal), it's based on their C++ skills and not blueprint knowledge. That can be taught.
I'm not hiring someone for a programming slot that only knows blueprint.
That could be a designer hire, but not a programming one. Maybe there'd be some blueprint questions for specific sub-disciplines like a UI programmer given that more of that's sort of forced into blueprint than in other cases.

bleak dagger
#

Me? i would do whatever brings money

#

Dont care if its freelance or in a studio

woeful iron
#

I would say the entry bar for freelance is higher personally

#

as you expected a quicker return on investment

bleak dagger
#

I feel very confident with blueprints, like i can create any game mechanic that i could think of right now
C++ is well..... difficult, i know c and bits of regular c++, the switch from c to c++ also feels really nice but Unreal c++ was always annoying because of the constant reopening of the editor but if i have a reason to learn it i dont think it would take me insaneley long

woeful iron
#

not to destroy your dreams, but chances of getting hired as a programmer with only bp knowledge are slim to none

eternal briar
#

Knowing C++ is very valuable for a programmer

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I would be very surprised if there was a programmer job posting that doesn't mention C++

bleak dagger
woeful iron
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yes

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and if you're looking for a job as game programmer I would say you have to

bleak dagger
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Unless i earn millions with my own game that is 😄

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Gosh i would be so happy if i could even make 100 sales haha

digital gate
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Do you have more than 3 years runway to drive a game to launch?

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(and also a compelling prototype with players)

bleak dagger
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Im right now at hmm 15 months or something

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Right now im finishing a vert slice

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Tried to find a team on i-nat .... with rather low success

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I guess i got what i paid for 😄

digital gate
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If you haven’t been running playtests of mechanics, you’ll want to do that as soon as you can.

bleak dagger
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Not a single playtest so far i thought i have to create a little demo with all the mechanics in first, then playtest it and then look for a publisher

strange plinth
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this can be bad if the game plays out to be terrible

bleak dagger
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Even if its almost impossible to get funding with a team like mine .....

strange plinth
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playtests usually come in a few months

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at least for the game feel and intentions

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not the full game experience

digital gate
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Yeah you need to playtest your loops

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Like does it even feel good to use alchemy

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Is your fast travel system intuitive

bleak dagger
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Damn im almost done with the vert slice now

digital gate
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Do players understand what they can pick up

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I mean, it’s fine that you’ve got a vert, you can still gather these feedback points, but you might find the feedback wants stuff you need to overhaul for

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The best time to playtest is in rapid proto, the second best time is now

bleak dagger
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How do i find playtesters in such a early phase, i guess im kinda forced to hire them right ?

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I have a few contacts that would help me out for free but how large should such a first palytest be ?