career-chat

[ivory echo]

Yeah, I think Peter Zeihan/Musk’s population collapse thing is a little exaggerated but there’s some truth to the birth/mortality ratio being a little low

[willow vault]

just looked smth for context because i had no idea who Zeihman is, he has some good points, essentially rich countries are getting **** because of the housing

ive lived in Netherlands for almost 1year and half and its the same thing there

Dutch complaining there is not enough "basic" workers, then Dutch complaining there is no housing

its just never ending cycle of pointing fingers

i only came back to my country because the housing here is ok compared to France Germany and the other big players

Also the culture is very preserved here as Slovakia, Czech, Poland and Hungary said we will not take anymore immigrants

essentially turning into somewhat of a experiment, its crazy and i am starting to talk shit here so il just end it

sorry xD

[tranquil granite]

Hii, How can I get a video sharing role 🥺

[pastel estuary]

once you are a member for a week, you can use the /stream command.

[plucky hatch]

I'd say that it's a sum. Live abroad, connect to others, make money (not thinking on being rich)

[willow vault]

Well then, as all is super individual experience for each person i can give you one advice that one Slovak guy said

"you dont try, you dont know"

go experience, make your own opinion

safely, of course, dont make big risks , good luck bro

[wary idol]

@river belfry read the #rules

[plucky hatch]

this sounds perfectly reasonable as different people have different opinions and experiences. Very few people are able to give unbiased views
I should thank you for this reply because asking it over and over to multiple people is useless.

[lucid dagger]

#freelance-jobs #hire-a-freelancer

[green oyster]

Is spamming channels professional though?

[willow vault]

at least you tried bro, i wish it works out for you ;]

[pastel estuary]

Imma point out the #rules for the people whose messages just got blocked due to being spam.

[tranquil granite]

@heavy cradle

[chilly sundial]

Completely reasonable ping there

[pliant olive]

Hello everyone, my name is David, and I'm from Spain (not too much information at all! :D). I'm a Front-End Developer looking for a change in my professional life. I'm currently taking Ben Tristem's course, and I'm really enjoying it!

Now, onto your question. I've been exploring job positions as an Unreal Developer in linkend, but I've noticed there are very few available. Should I be looking for a different job title or position?

[chilly sundial]

You'd be better off looking for general Programmer listings, that mention using Unreal Engine

or applying to studios who are known to use it

[woeful iron]

I think going to studios websites that you know is the most efficient

there's sites specifically for game dev jobs

[pliant olive]

Oh, thank you! I suspect it has something to do with studio websites, so that sounds great, really :). I'm going to finish this course, start some personal projects, and at the same time check these websites... I'll continue around here; I'm sure I'm going to find a lot of problems and questions! 🙂

[spice tinsel]

I'm eager to share my game development portfolio with you. This is just a small part of my extensive experience in the industry. If you're interested in seeing more, please feel free to reach out. I'd be happy to discuss further!
https://youtu.be/RSO9zdcayms?si=Q0mLxxXGjqgluD9f

[hollow swift]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J69h7XNAm1M&ab_channel=HermanJarl
Hey guys - I'm working on a portfolio at the moment, but I've never made a proper one..
I would love any feedback on this one (long format version) - thanks!

[woeful iron]

this is pretty cool tbh

having an accompanying site talking about the projects would be nice

[hollow swift]

Thanks! And yea that'll definetly be the next step

[river bramble]

Hello, good day, who is here with a deep knowledge of unreal Engine in terms of SVT or sparse volume textures who speaks Spanish for a proof of concept?

[crude vault]

I'm wondering if people have any thoughts about how to advertise your studio (we do a lot of XR AI work/experiences, for cultural organizations, other agencies, individual artists--the aesthetic is very artistic) other than just here and on the socials? I'm also writing cultural organizations, other agencies individually, but not sure how to reach out to artists (e.g., musicians who might want a UE music video, or visual artists who might need some visual material).

Unfortunately, I don't have an xsens (for motion capture); feel like it would be easier if I did, but I can get the client to use some AI tools.

I have a pretty robust website/portfolio; it's more about how to reach people.

[dark moss]

Hello! I have a question. How would you start learning simulation in Unreal? Or how do I become a Simulation Specialist (according to Unreal's Creator’s Field Guide to Emerging Careers in Interactive 3D).

[valid ridge]

Hello! I have a question, how should i start learning unreal gameplay programming and get a job in AAA company as a gameplay programmer?

[oblique ice]

try the lesson and learn.unreal

[ashen lynx]

You need to make realistic and ( important) accurate simulations and after doing so, make them known to the world. At this point, the job will rather find you than you searching for it.

[rose vortex]

Has anyone tried emailing branding at unrealengine.com ? Did you get a reply? Is it necessary to fill out the trademark agreement form if you simply want to use the Unreal Icon on a personal demo (cinematic)? My assumption is that its ok if nothing commercial but I really would like some type of confirmation.

[chilly sundial]

Yes it is absolutely necessary

it's not only commercial things.
Whether you make money out of it or not doesn't matter if you're plastering their logo on something they disagree with

[undone obsidian]

Advice on way to go, I have an idea for a game and want to learn unreal and develop the game. Should i just learn while trying to build this game or should i do courses creating different games and following instructions to learn BP's overall then apply that to my game? cheers

[pastel estuary]

we do have a few people who basically know one aspect of the engine inside out, points at deathrey

[winged dragon]

Hey guys

Are Upwork and Fiverr good for finding short-term freelance jobs/tasks? Are the rates low there?

and in general, which of both is better, Upwork or Fiverr?

[shut token]

They're both a race to the bottom

[winged dragon]

why so

makes sense

well is there any other way or a website where I can find only short-term freelance tasks? where the rate is more reasonable

sometimes I get like a week or two available between my real work so .. looking to fill it up

[hybrid mountain]

Anyone work at a studio in tokyo?

[abstract badge]

I just yesterday took my first steps out. I started learning Unreal back at the beginning of October, and since then I've been doing online courses and some self directed study, but now I feel I'm at a point where I've got a decent grasp of the fundamentals, so starting yesterday I began splitting my time: half day of study and half day of working on a real project.

[undone obsidian]

What courses did you do? also how much of a grasp do you feel you have to problem solve and create things that werent in the courses?

[woeful iron]

Like what do you study I wonder? Idk if there's that much to learn about unreal without applying it. Or study something else?

[polar blaze]

hi, looking for a developer for my horror game currently

[woeful iron]

read #instructions if you want to hire someone

[polar blaze]

sir would you check dm 👋

[woeful iron]

I will not respond in DM but there is #rev-share-jobs for jobs without direct salary

I literally answered your question, what more do you want from me

[chilly sundial]

To be the developer for the horror game

[woeful iron]

if you had read the rules, you would not even have tried to DM me of course

[abstract badge]

@woeful iron @undone obsidian For my part I am focusing on programming Unreal with C++ and have only learned the minimum so far about things like materials, importing models, lighting, etc. I've been a programmer in other fields since the mid 90's so going the C++ route is most comfortable for me. I started with a couple of non-C++ overview courses on Udemy just to get a feel for the system overall, then switched to a C++ course from gamedev.com that was slow, but OK as an introduction I guess. Just this past weekend I finished Tom Looman's Unreal/C++ course, and I've also done a bit of a generic C++ course since my own experience with the language is limited to some hobby programming back with C++11.

At this point I have an idea for a plugin I want to make, so I splitting my time between that and just kind of undirected study. For example, I'm reading the online manual for Unreal from cover to cover, a bit every day, and I'm also reading other things either as I come across them, or when I need to know about something specific.

Yesterday, for example, I spent a lot of time on @charred sentinels blog after she linked me to an article there. What a wonderful resource!

[woeful iron]

I think it would be more beneficial on the implementation of what you want to make tbh, and when you get stuck on something, learn about that, and you can apply it directly, it will make it make more sense and be easier to stick in your mind probably

[abstract badge]

I'm doing that. It's what I meant when I said I study things "when I need to know about something specific"

[queen ore]

I actually took a peak at it too from the profile. Great stuff

[empty hound]

Just curious about the industry - is it a thing for high level (senior / lead) developers to get some kind of profit sharing or other bonus potential on top of base salary at medium to larger studios?

Or does “rev share” only tend to exist at the cash poor indie startups

[chilly sundial]

rev share doesn't even really exist at startups

a startup implies they have some capital to start up

rev share is a thing that exists for hobby projects, usually led by inexperienced people.

[mint skiff]

Receiving equity isn't unusual in tech

although seems to be largely an american thing

this isn't revenue share though, and kind of by definition if you're an employee you can't receive any profits!

[ashen lynx]

Bonuses are not uncommon.

Well... Used to be not uncommon.

[empty hound]

Right I know software developers at FAANG companies etc may receive even the majority of their compensation as stocks or other bonuses. I was mostly wondering if it’s relatively common to see a bonus structure related to the success of the project. Like suppose you’re a senior developer working on what happens to be a breakout success like Palworld, would you stand to benefit anything from that level of breakout success? Or just get a small bonus for the company hitting its target and that’s it. Just curious to get some takes

In my current (non-game) job for instance bonuses top out around 120% of target so there wouldn’t be any life-changing benefit from that level of runaway success (besides it looking nice on the resume) but would get a moderate bonus. I’m getting the impression that any kinds of points/stock or actual profit sharing isn’t too common in game development (outside of probably executives and founders)

[woeful iron]

I don't know but I don't think it is, and it highly depends on the company you work at probably

either way don't go into gamedev to make the big bucks

[ivory echo]

Also FAANG are all non game-dev companies lol so your friends have no real advice to give you

[karmic stratus]

just read this channel name as "career-what"

[brave forge]

I'd say the only time you see a significant bonus or rev share for highly profitable projects would be in small scale teams that hit it big. I doubt you'll see much more than a few % (10-20 would be my guess) bonus at a larger established company .

[empty hound]

Thanks for the perspectives everyone!

[earnest pecan]

5 people from the same (actually pretty big) company contacted me on LinkedIn over the course of a month for a Senior Level Designer role. I ignored the first 2 because I thought they were mistaken (and one didn't give me information when I asked them lol) but the messages kept on coming and I was like, "Really? They want me for a Senior Level Designer role?" and talked to one of them and applied

...and then got rejected.

Why must ~~you ~~ they do this to me?

[high cape]

Dumb recruiters.

[ivory echo]

Especially 3rd party recruiters will do that and lead you on, so they can collect their finder’s fee, often doing so regardless of the qualifications clearly listed in the posting. If you ask they’ll say no no don’t worry just apply, and then you get rejected lol

[woeful iron]

get rekt

did you just apply, or did you apply through them though?

[earnest pecan]

through them

[earnest pecan]

these guys are first party I think

[lapis atlas]

help I just might have gotten a job I don't want, someone hire me quickly pls

[woeful iron]

did you already sign?

[lapis atlas]

no have the first meeting on thursday

[woeful iron]

so if you don't want it, just don't start working there?

[lapis atlas]

lmao

[woeful iron]

why did you get so far in hiring if you don't want it?

[lapis atlas]

cuz I've been looking for a job for about 4 months and ended up getting some kind of agency to help me find a job and they found this shitty job and I think I'm forced to take it

[woeful iron]

why would you be forced?

did you sign anything with the agency?

or is this a government agency?

otherwise why would you be forced to take anything?

[lapis atlas]

idk it's complicated

[woeful iron]

if you did sign anything, please reread it carefully

if you didn't, don't take the job

if you are somehow forced to take it, see if the document that somehow forced you to do this also mentions something about minimum employment, and otherwise you can just quit whenever you want

[lapis atlas]

yes

idk if it's better to have a bad job or not have a job at all though

[woeful iron]

still very strange to be forced to take a job though

[woeful iron]

depends on how hard you need it

if you really need it for the money, yes

otherwise I would personally say no

[lapis atlas]

well right now I'm living off of welfare

[woeful iron]

cause it will just make you depressed and take away time you can spend on finding a job you like

other easy way out is on this meeting next thursday act like an absolute madman

and they will never want to hire you

[lapis atlas]

xD

[woeful iron]

you laugh, but this is an actual strategy people here use to remain on wellfare

cause our social support is just too good

and if you're gonna work a low end job, you're off worse than when not working at all

[chilly sundial]

As much as I hate legal documents, my contract is the one thing I read closer than anything else in my life

[brisk peak]

@undone plover I sent you a message. 🙂

[woeful iron]

why are you letting everyone know though?

and in #career-chat

[dreamy junco]

Hi 👋 ,

I've start learning game programming and i think i am good on that, but its hard to me to found a jobs because i published only one tittle and i dont have years of experience,

Do you have any recommendations on how I can enter the gaming industry for roles that don't require years of experience

[woeful iron]

make some more games? keep applying?

[dreamy junco]

the problem its hard to stay more month without a job, from i graduate the university until now its 6 month, i feel this long time

[woeful iron]

so what did you do in uni? not game related?

you could work another job part/full time while applying for game jobs and improving if you feel like it's too hard to break in right now

[dreamy junco]

i study CS, and i was focusing on Application Development , but after i graduate i tried game Development and i like it, so i decided to continue on this industry,

[dreamy junco]

i think thats what i need to do

[woeful iron]

if you have a degree in CS and a finished game, I think you should be able to find a junior job somewhere probably

[ivory echo]

Are those bills someone with Covid coughed on ?

[undone plover]

Starts hiding digital footprint nobody sent me nothing

[raw radish]

Im new here, im gonna learn how to make maps so any advice is appreciated

[pastel estuary]

in that case, check the pinned messages in #ue5-general and any other channel you are interested in. they generally contain tutorials and information. Good luck, and have fun!

also: #rules

as you are already breaking some. @raw radish

read em, please.

[raw radish]

alr srry

[pastel estuary]

np

[dull leaf]

I'm thinking of applying to some internships in UE5 game development in the future. What kind of experience do companies that offer such things (like Epic for example) look for when deciding whether or not to accept an intern application?

[hollow cipher]

whats the difference between a vfx artist and a technical artist

[grave cove]

It can really depend on the studio. At one studio, they were mostly focused on artist tools development. At another it was an artist that happened to also do at least some of their work in blueprint. Like actually building a system from scratch in blueprint, not making minor edits to a blueprint someone else built.

[hollow cipher]

i see

im a prop/environ artist

but someone reccomended i look into technical art

and i cant find a clear answer. sometimers its rigging chars, a lot of the time it seems like vfx artist work

[grave cove]

Yeah, I don't find it surprising that it's not clear. I feel for you.
Your best shot is to do what it sounds like you're already doing, which is carefully reading the actual job description. I wouldn't worry about the title as much.

[mint skiff]

A vfx artist is more likely to not be doing pipeline stuff than a tech artist is to not do vfx work

could consider vfx work more specialised

[hollow cipher]

yeah but i want to branch out to increase hirability

[grave cove]

That's great! but you do that by expanding your actual skillset. Decide that on things that interest you. Is that actually doing vfx work? maybe it's making tools that make it easier to manage props in the environment. It's unlikely you're going to be able to tailor you growth towards "technical artist" because it's so studio dependent. And unless you have a very mercenary disposition, it's much more fulfilling to branch out into things that you're interested in than those that will just try to make you money. Enthusiasm can go a long way in the interview process or be bonuses if you apply for another prop job and you talk about the tools or vfx work that you could also contribute.

[rough slate]

What I’ve learned is that the more hats you decide to put on the more valuable you are. Most studios and independent companies are more willing to work with people who are experienced in many areas, than finding a specialist for everything they need. Sure, specialists will find work, even in those companies, but more often than not from start to finish, the specialists are usually used on a final product rather than the beginning of one.

[lilac walrus]

I would argue that the opposite is true - and that early game development (e.g. pre-production prototyping) is a domain of expertise all in itself. There are some more 'generalist' positions within games, e.g. Technical Art and Technical Design, but they still expect you to have a certain level of specialisation into specific domains

[brave forge]

Very much so. If you've ever heard people refer to "T shaped roles" it's just as ambershee describes. Wide knowledge with a deeper specialisation. No one knows everything, but it helps to know a bit about everything in addition to your more focused area

[grave cove]

I would say that it has very little to do with what stage in the project you are but how many people are on your team.
If you have have money for 5 people, it’s hard to justify paying someone that can only do a very niche task (unless maybe that’s a core selling point).
This size can correspond with the project lifecycle, but not always.

[chilly sundial]

I'd also say it depends on the project requirements too.
project stage is the least factor.
For instance, even if I was a small indie studio with maybe a handful of people on a project, if that project was some competitive multiplayer, or god forbid an MMO, I'm going to shell out for a competent network programmer, versus a generalist who's dipped their toes into networking

[lilac walrus]

If I'm only hiring five people, then I'm aiming for five people who are experts in their domain and scoping the project accordingly to emphasise the skills my people will have and deemphasise those they do not. Specialised staff aren't people who only do niche tasks; they're people with expert knowledge in a given field and you'll get much farther with them than without them.

A single skilled gameplay programmer will be able to hold that part of the project together by themselves so long as the project is suitably scoped and managed, and it's likely they may have some adjacent knowledge or be able to pick it up, that'll prove useful (e.g. if you need level scripting, AI or anim trees etc). When they encounter issues, they'll likely have sufficient expertise to understand where to begin building the knowledge required to resolve them.

Five people who only know surface level basics with regard to gameplay programming will have difficulty working on their own, will work even worse together, and will likely just make a bit of a clusterfuck that becomes increasingly problematic as time goes on - and their overall lack of domain specific knowledge pretty much ensures you'll never be able to hit certain quality levels which will impact the product as a whole (poorly optimised gameplay code causing performance problems, as an example).

If I don't have an experienced gameplay programmer, then the better solution is to build something that doesn't require one and avoid all the risks and issues associated with having someone who doesn't really know what they're doing. This has a pretty hefty net impact on the project on the whole, but it isn't by any means impossible as an example.

[fervent pike]

If I want to send my resume to get a internship or full time job as game developer where should I send my resume? or which section should I go to see the jobs. I am a college student and I will graudtate in the fall 2025.

Send me a private massage to see it. Please someone help me.

[chilly sundial]

You should send your resume to the company you want to get employed at

[ivory echo]

I would also like a private massage if we’re handing those out in this channel 🙃

[paper cedar]

I just realized, I have no idea what to charge for my freelance work.

[spice dagger]

Charge what you need to in order to cover your expenses.

Taking into account your level of experience and quality.

[paper cedar]

Isn't quality subjective in most cases, especially when lacking experience?

[spice dagger]

Sure, but you can get a general sense of quality based on what else is going around as well.

[paper cedar]

Ok, that's fair enough

This is all hard to gauge, when the most I've had to deal with for compensation is minimum wage. So I get the feeling my sense of price might be wonky. I should probably check out average salaries for people in roughly my experience zone then...

But thank you very much for your input @spice dagger

[spice dagger]

Yeah absolutely, take a look at what others are producing and asking for.

Thats how you remain competitive

If you need to charge more, but feel your experience/quality doesnt warrant it, then increase your experience/quality and start charging more.

[paper cedar]

That's good advice. It's been tough trying to get into the industry, but you are right, I just need to up my game and keep up.

Thank you again.

[keen moat]

Hello,
How I can post on the Job Board sections? It says you don't have permission to post...

[woeful iron]

is it not covered in #instructions ?

[keen moat]

I did not find anything related to permission, but now I found something else it says, I can post in any channel with the desired command

[coarse pilot]

what is a game devs responsibility in a company?

anyone has examples of tasks that a game dev could get?

[shut token]

To develop games

The question is extremely broad and vague

Make a game. You now know some of the things a "game dev" will be tasked with

[chilly sundial]

"game dev" also isn't a role you'll typically find outside of smaller indie studios

Game Designer is

Gameplay Programmer is

But everyone on the team pretty much is a "game dev"

[coarse pilot]

thats the answer i was looking for, the boundaries between jobs in the industry often look faded to me

i have developed a game from start to end at my current career so i got to work with every aspect other then creating animation and 3d modeling, so im thinking what could be a fitting title

[chilly sundial]

If this is for hirability, describing yourself as "Game Developer" may be less favourable than picking your specialisation

For example, if you were to hire someone for Gameplay Programming, do you want someone that's focused on that, or someone that's diverted half the time to level design, sounds, marketing etc, and will never touch those in the role.

[coarse pilot]

im trying to think about something catchy, game industry is very limited where i live and its not neccaserily the next thing i wanna do, but i dont rule it out

my thought was that by choosing game dev, i make it easier to catch HRs attention

[woeful iron]

why would you say you're a game dev if you don't wanna do game dev

[chilly sundial]

Yeah, if you're going into anywhere else no one really cares if you made games

They just care if you did something

[coarse pilot]

because i have other aspirations in life other than being a game dev, im not those people that threw it all to become a game dev, im a software engineer that got the chance to create a "game" at his current role

[chilly sundial]

then if you want to be a software engineer still, focus on your programming bits

[coarse pilot]

game dev is a cool career path, i would def do it for a couple of years more, but its not the only thing id like to do

the current best title i could think off would be Software Engineer & Game Developer which encompasses both Software Engineering & having worked on a game project. that led me to the question, is game dev the correct thing to put as my description or is there anything else that i might weight

[woeful iron]

if you apply for game dev job, put game dev. For any other job, but software engineer

or Game Programmer or something

[astral python]

Hello there,

I have a beginners question and I thought it might be good to ask people that are working since quite some time with unreal engine.
I am a C# Backend developer but want to transition to spatial computing, focusing on VR and AR Work space apps and games.
I feel like the Unreal Engine is quite superior compared to Unity but I am still uncomfortable with C++.

Is it worth it learning C++ nowadays or are there already bigger projects where other more modern languages are used? (I heard of USharp and some C# to C++ transpilation processes)

[woeful iron]

if you want to use unreal, c++ is a must and will remain so for the foreseeable future imo

[astral python]

Okay, so it is still very future proof I assume?

[woeful iron]

c++ will unfortunately never die

[shut token]

Unfortunately for humanity's sanity - this is true 😭

[astral python]

so it appears as if it is true that the language is not specifically "user-friendly" for coding?

[steady pewter]

C++ is ultimate

[chilly sundial]

for unreal once you're past the pitfalls it's quite friendly

most of the C++ evils are hidden from you

[woeful iron]

it is very powerful, but comes at the cost of being very verbose and can be annoying to write in, especially if you're used to something higher level like c#

but indeed unreal hides a lot of the pain

[agile basin]

at least its not C or assembly

[coarse pilot]

tbh i got to make what i made without using C++ almost at all, i only once made a blueprint node that gets IP, but i never had felt the urge to make anything in C++. blueprints covers basically everything in my experience

[chilly sundial]

if you aim to ship it, you should always use some

even for structs and enums

[astral python]

could you recommend me a good course to get started with C++? Preferrably on Udemy or other course software

[woeful iron]

read pins in #cpp

[abstract badge]

There are some good courses on udemy. I've done a few courses there and there's a pair of Unreal introductory courses by the same author that I can recommend without réservation. They are just about getting started and going through the major systems in the editor, though, so there's probably free equivalents that are just as good

[chilly sundial]

I think in most cases it's a matter of wasting money. Sure there's a lot of downright awful *cough* gamedev.tv *cough* but the others tend to just reiterate widely available free information

like getting used to the editor, why would you pay for a version of Your First Hour in Unreal Engine

[abstract badge]

mind you I have never paid full price for any course on udemy. I actually have the monthly subscription just so I can access most of the courses for cheap

[chilly sundial]

you never should pay full price anyway

their sales are flat out scams

you keep refreshing, clearing cookies, or incognito tabs, and magically sales come back in varying amounts with varying timers

[agile basin]

prices are insane too..

like 3 digits for basic ahh courses

"how to make fps game, with template i provide"

it is... a curated experience you're paying for

some people learn better that way

to me, was a slog

I was pressing right arrow a lot of times

[abstract badge]

That's me. I pay for courses because I want material that is well organized and structured rather than just a random collection of 30 minute chats about different things. If I knew what the best order to learn things was I would not need help

[woeful iron]

I can recommend Tom Looman

but after getting the basics down, just do your own thing

at least then you will learn how to find stuff on your own, and not be stuck in tutorial hell

[abstract badge]

That said, after for different courses, including Loomams course, I now feel confident enough to start organizing my studies on my own, so O am moving away from the paid courses

[woeful iron]

I pretty much did 1,5 days of actual "tutorials" when I started unreal, and then just went with it and learned what I needed through, docs, guides, blogs, and this discord and just trying things

[agile basin]

same, needed a foundation

now im just discovering new features everyday

[oblique ice]

i learn from learn.unreal, epic developer site

[muted cradle]

thanks

[earnest pecan]

How do you guys manage to do things on time? I set a deadline to finish my game's demo in 6 months and it's been 7 months and I'm not even finished with writing all the quests. I force myself to sit down and hold the pen but I just end up getting stuck here. I can't move further in development without having either a list of locations or things NPCs are required to do.

I want to have 20 quests in the demo and I wrote the OUTLINES of 6 of them. This is horrible progress. Yes, I am satisfied with how the outlines are turning out but the time taken to finish writing them is unacceptable. It's so irritating.

I've made deadlines, I've made a list of things to do, I've collected everything I need to make progress, I've made a schedule, I've done everything I possibly can do and I still can't get this thing done. It's not like I'm uninterested either, I AM interested. I even took a month long break from game dev/design/writing but that didn't help either.

It might seem like I'm just venting but I am genuinely looking for advice.

[shut token]

Easy - I don't. But I don't beat myself up about it either. Because life happens. If I were doing this full-time, for 8-10 hours a day, that's another story though.

[earnest pecan]

Not full-time at all, I have a rather disorganized schedule

code?

[woeful iron]

make realistic deadlines, and make them mean something, if you don't have any decisions or consequences at the end of the deadline, why have one at all

[shut token]

I have a dayjob, household, and other responsibilities before my gamedev stuff. Sometimes, life just happens and I don't get to work on what I want to work on. That's just how it is.

[woeful iron]

e.g. make 20 quests by the end of the month, if you just have 6, move on with 6 until you have time to work on the remainder again

but prioritise correctly

[earnest pecan]

how do I do that? I can't make consequences, no?

[woeful iron]

you can for yourself

[shut token]

Give yourself one lashing for each missing quest

[earnest pecan]

It's not like I don't GET to work on it. I can't make myself work on it.

[woeful iron]

simple example, look at what olsson did with U#, he said I'm gonna release it in 2 weeks, whether he had the features that he wants or not. That deadline means something to him

[earnest pecan]

I often choose to play a game instead or even stare at my screen but not write at all

I'm trying to make something to pitch to people and if it's successful, I'm going to throw the whole thing away and start again

I do want to do it, that I'm sure of

[woeful iron]

why do you wanna throw it away if it's succesful?

and why do you think you need 20 quests specifically

[shut token]

To tease them

[woeful iron]

good point

[earnest pecan]

because what I've made so far is running on bandaids

and

junk

[shut token]

That's gamedev though

[earnest pecan]

it's barely functioning

and will be a shit base

to build off of

[earnest pecan]

I just think it's the right amount of content to have

[shut token]

For a demo?

I think its too much

[earnest pecan]

I have a list of things to fix and ideas on how to fix them but I want to finish this step first

[earnest pecan]

really?

[woeful iron]

a demo to pitch is to prove your core game loop, it doesn't need to be 3 hours long

[earnest pecan]

they're very short though

[woeful iron]

why, does it need to be sequential?

you say you make no progress with the quests, so why not do something else in the meantime and maybe regain some inspiration

[earnest pecan]

could be?

[woeful iron]

how so

[earnest pecan]

yeah, that seems smart

[earnest pecan]

I want to keep my logic revisions to a minimum

not sure if it's a smart move

[woeful iron]

iteration is part of the process

especially when demo phase

assume you will throw away 95% of the things you create

[earnest pecan]

that is why I set the quest count to 20

I know I'll throw away a significant amount of them

[woeful iron]

I'm talking about your systems and everything behind it too

[earnest pecan]

I have the bare minimun though, just vehicles and guns

[woeful iron]

I'm not talking about keeping certain quests, I'm talking about probably redoing the whole quest system for example

[earnest pecan]

I don't have quest system ;-;

[woeful iron]

then why are you making 20 quests lol

[earnest pecan]

I wanted to put everything on paper first

[woeful iron]

maybe start with 1 to see if you can achieve something

[earnest pecan]

and then start making the systems

[woeful iron]

don't try to make the perfect thing from the start

it will never work and you will waste your time

[earnest pecan]

because 95% of 3 is around 1

and I don't think having one single quest is good

[woeful iron]

I think you miss the point

[earnest pecan]

I am just trying to make a thing tho

[woeful iron]

1 quest is a thing

[earnest pecan]

I'm pretty sure I'll spend a lot of time changing things

later

[earnest pecan]

okay fair point

[woeful iron]

it's easy to lose motivation if you make no progress with what you do

you will only feel the impact by actually implementing them

[earnest pecan]

that checks out

I was under the impression that having a comprehensive list of things required will make everything run smoother in the long term

[woeful iron]

it might

it might not

but at least in my experience, making lists does not give much satisfaction

so easy to lose motivation

[earnest pecan]

alright, I'll try fixing one of the existing issues now

thanks for the talk (all of you), I really appreciate it

[abstract badge]

To paraphrase Mark Twain, there are lies, damned lies, and software delivery schedules.

I'm terrible at estimating times, myself, so I generally don't bother. Instead I just try to break things down into small chunks that I just feel like I can do in a week or two, and if the time doesn't vary too drastically, then I ignore any diffeerence.

[plucky hatch]

I see that this discord has a section for freelance work and whatnot, but I'm looking for more options. Are there other discord servers that anybody knows of where I can look for freelance opportunities (more specifically, music production jobs)

[ivory echo]

Not sure but we can’t advertise other discord servers here so your best bet is Google

[potent pollen]

whats is the normal salary for a blueprint coder?

[chilly sundial]

None, because it isn't a role that exists outside of really small teams

A programmer role will be primarily c++ in the industry

Blueprints are a tool that are used by game designers, who aren't just coding.

[potent pollen]

oh well, im getting 3.5 per hour and thought it was bad

ty

[chilly sundial]

Region?

[potent pollen]

russia

[chilly sundial]

And you're only getting 3.5 USD an hour?

[potent pollen]

yup, i mean i work at home and im 16 so it aint that bad for me, cuz i enjoy this work. but its lower than a damn food delivery guy so i though its very bad

[chilly sundial]

But yes that's very bad

Minimum wage in Russia is more than double that

And freelancing should be above your minimum wage as you have extra costs to bear

True

This was more in general

[potent pollen]

i was paid 10 per hour when i was working on a thing where u build houses, idk name

but well, 3.5 is still better than nothing aint it

next question, what is the normal salary for a c++ coder per hour? in freelance case

[steel creek]

Completely depends on experience but can go from 35 an hour to 110 an hour

[chilly sundial]

Also can depend on region.

But yeah the above is a good baseline

[potent pollen]

😭 aight thanks

[west iris]

Hi. I've been working on a plugin for 8 months. I couldn't fix technical problems and I decided to completlely give up. When I graudate from college and apply for jobs, I will post my github profile to showcase my knowledge. Should I still upload unfinished project to my github account or not.

I planning inside readme.md file in depth explain what the plugin has to do and each problems I couldn't fix. Will recruiters take a look at at least some source?

[ivory echo]

That being said, declaring that it was too difficult and you gave up is possibly not the best thing to advertise

[abstract badge]

Describe it as a study project or as something currently on hiatus while you do other things.

[brave forge]

True, but can be useful to frame it a certain way. Things you learned, mistakes you won't make again.

[west iris]

codebase is over 10k long they wouldn't look at each complex algorithms and think "He coded all these by himself" but if It were complete, all these lines would unite together and achieve the complete result

it's been so long guys even though no matter how much I want to give up and never work on it anymore I cannot let the project die and then pretend it never exist no matter how long it will take I don't have any option but finish it

[abstract badge]

Don't fall for the sunk cost fallacy. Sometimes it's better to cut your losses and move on. Not saying you should give up, just that you shouldn't think the time you've spent so far means you have to keep going

[fluid thorn]

Have anyone ever partake in internship? I wrote a letter to a local game studio but if I was given the opportunity, im not sure how long does one normally expected to stay?

@charred sentinel 🙏 to be accepted. Time to learn Unity

[high cape]

If you worked 9 months on it, it's worth showing them, I think. Even if you did not finish it yet. I mean, you shouldn't tell them that you gave up. Better tell them that you stopped working on it for now (for some reasons...) but you will finish it later.

[oblique ice]

can also mention it's still work in progress

[fervent pike]

Hello, I am Asber Noma. I am a junior in computer Science at CUNY College of Staten Island in New York. I am looking for an unpaid internship as a game developer in the summer using unreal engine. Please some one help me because that will make me start in the game industry. I already built 2 games . One using Java and the other one using Unity. Lastly, I paid for a course using Udemy to learn everything in Unreal Engine for 47 hours including material, animation, Nigari , Sound,Blueprint, ground,Light and every thing. If you help me that will be very good . Please Massage me in discord if you want the resume. I didnot know how can I send Manny to post my letter that is why I am writing it here.

[ivory echo]

#instructions

My tiny piece of advice, capitalize your name. Idk why zoomers have no self-respect but it seems to be a common issue

[short jungle]

if you work for someone remote work, just ask more. he will be able to afford 2.5 times this price

[frigid oasis]

Hi! Where can I find a Game Development Document template? I think Sony has one for PlayStation, but I can't find it. Thanks!

[woeful iron]

idk but this seems interesting. Also links to here which seems to have interesting examples and templates below

just write what you think you need I guess

[frigid oasis]

Thanks

[ivory echo]

https://tenor.com/view/dr-evil-one-billion-dollars-haha-money-gif-16679435

you still haven't explained what those are

#career-chat message

I mean half-joke

lol

excellent

[icy glacier]

I guys quick question, is there a official "learning courses" and possible cetifications for unreal engine?

Thanks.
I was looking for certifications, because the training is usually more structured, and since its been ages since i've done game dev, and even then I did very little with unreal, I was looking for a "complete pack" 😄

Perfect, thank you 🤌

[cold lodge]

I mean I'd rather just do what I want. If I get banned I get banned. God forbid I ask to build people landing pages 😂

[pastel estuary]

better read them #rules though, else yea, you'll get booted at some point.

[cold lodge]

I don't even read Unreal documents lol

[abstract badge]

And you brag about this why?

[spice dagger]

Lets move on please this is offtopic

[cold lodge]

Yeah bully the random thats looking for work. yall are great works. and then hit me with more warnings like you have been with quilbot. idgaf its rude af

I'll litterally see you guys at gdc.

[spice dagger]

Being told to follow the rules is not bullying.

[cold lodge]

Having to ruleshark about " read the rules " over this shit is bullying

But if it's the Unreal discord it's fine I guess 😔

[spice dagger]

You were given ample chance to change your approach, you chose not to.

[cold lodge]

Sure whatever

I'll cya all at gdc

[abstract badge]

https://meme-generator.com/wp-content/uploads/mememe/2019/11/mememe_8122c56fd71afc7b3d42d37bce11a378-1.jpg

[pliant olive]

I'm not sure if this is the right place to ask, but... Could anyone tell me a course on YouTube to learn from scratch, please?

[woeful iron]

learn what

[pliant olive]

Unreal, sorry 😄

I was following it, but I didn't like it because there are some things completely outdated, and at certain moments it's complicated to follow.

[woeful iron]

if you wanna learn unreal c++, check the pins in #cpp maybe

[pliant olive]

Oh, oki... sorry. I'm going to this chat now 🙂

[restive pike]

how do you promote a fiverr gig for game dev?? I can't think of a way cuz I have no following on any of my social media accounts and most subreddits have a no promotion policy....how do I go about doing this?

[brave forge]

Start socials. Show off what you've done, are doing etc. There are some subreddits and Facebook groups that allow reasonable self promotion. You can probably post under #hire-a-freelancer by following #instructions

Otherwise look into paid promotions, Facebook ads etc. Basically marketing your skills and services is work, it's gonna take time, money or both. A single post to a bunch of subreddits probably won't be enoufh

[restive pike]

ok will look into this

[formal igloo]

hello, i need some help to construct my CV if anyone is willing to help

[frigid oasis]

That course is really bad.

[plucky hatch]

Ryan Holiday. Ego is the enemy. I just realized how wrong my level design site was.... better say, how wrong I was about my portfolio in that site. I wrote more than 10 paragraphs to describe my levels but all that text is about visuals, about 90% of it would be env art, with the remaining 10% being design. No employee or recruiter would be insane to see me as a potential new talent if I'm making this serious mistake.

I was oblivious to that for a long time and the cause was "ego is really the enemy". Nobody said what I wrote was wrong, what I got was "awesome site" "keep going" "really good" and such

[pastel estuary]

its why we --generally-- need to ask peers for advice on such things. And hopefully they point that stuff out.
back in ye olde day though, all we needed was a page with an unlit, lit, and wireframe shot, and we where considered experts XD
because omg wireframe.

[mint skiff]

bunch of Cowboys! :D

[pastel estuary]

yeehaw

[plucky hatch]

I got maybe one feedback telling me that writing is not what gets the employee's attention, unless you want to be a writer off course. All the other feedback was mostly positive. This made me blind.

[steel creek]

The phrase we use is: "show, dont tell".

Ironically it comes from writing as you typically do not want to just tell people a story you want to visually verbally imbue it with life.

Same thing applies to anything else. Make the thing; no need to explain what we can see

[errant lantern]

Resuming right?

[errant lantern]

I can help you with it

[formal igloo]

i ve sent you friend req

[balmy dagger]

Hello everyone! I just would like to ask if there's any talented blender animators around so I could ask some questions?

[woeful iron]

you could start by asking in #animation

if you are looking to hire someone, see #instructions

[balmy dagger]

Thanks, I'd like to ask things personally

[woeful iron]

well good luck

[plucky hatch]

for some reason 5 spam accounts replied to my tweet which I posted about that. The 5 accounts were bots with profile photos of women

lots of hashtags in X seem to attract the spam bots

[robust solstice]

they're that bad? I got this course too but I guess I won't learn from it then... Thing is, I also got Grant Abbitt's Blender course here on character modeling there and it was really nice (although it didn't have everything of course since I got it quite cheap). Thanks for the links though, I also wanna learn C++ on UE5 so I'll be sure to check the pins!

mmhmm, true xD

I'm pretty good with C# actually, but I'm kind of scared of C++ hearing what other people say about it...

used to do some C++ back at uni but it's been so long

C# helps a lot with memory so we don't have to be as careful as C++ I feel

[woeful iron]

memory managment is overrated

especially in context of unreal

read pins in #cpp though

[robust solstice]

o7

will do!

thank you!

[clear veldt]

Hey everybody. So my team recently applied for an Epic Games MegaGrant, and were all quite confident in it. I was wondering in the event of us being rejected, what should our course of action be?

The current business plan is relying heavily on if we get approved

[shut token]

Hope you buffered in waiting for a year+

[chilly sundial]

Yeah, don't rely on getting a megagrant accepted

Always have contingencies, and then have contingencies for those contingencies

[marsh citrus]

Need a 3D Character Artist, THe character is ready. Need to rig it, add clothes and make some basic animation like punching, kicking etc, please DM its an urgent gaming project

i cant post in the freelance jobs or any other jobs

[chilly sundial]

that's why you read #instructions, which explains this

[pastel estuary]

already banned it, quinn is slow to remove

[nova coyote]

#rules

[willow vault]

its just dark themed

[pastel estuary]

they mean that you are not allowed to post job offers outside of the dedicated channels.

and you have been on this server long enough to have read them.

[nova coyote]

read rules #3 and 8

[willow vault]

i get it now i am terribly sorry

[soft parcel]

Hi I have a question regarding career in ue and game dev in general; I have always wanted to land a game dev job and currently in backend services in java having intermediate experience in some game engines and blender. What are steps behind hiring and what are requirements to join game dev companies..because I always see hiring demands min3 yr experience

[soft parcel]

I have never understood how is it possible to have any experience for newhires..also is it still possible to make a switch to game dev from a different background (backend developer in my case) is it still ok to dream 🥺I have tried to see if any internships are present but to no avail
Appreciate anyone who sheds light on this

[mint skiff]

Job listings always ask for more than they can get. Are you applying for these anyway?

Prior swe experience is likely all they want

[woeful iron]

disclaimer: don't expect to be paid as well as you are as backend developer, you will be disappointed

unless you're being underpaid already of course

[soft parcel]

@mint skiff yes but I don't want to lie about my experience..it's usually like we need 3-4 years of experience in UE,unity,blender maya etc..and I always wonder how can I have an experience when it's my first time..also I am lost on what exactly are the skill set (minimum) needed to get into the industry..are they looking at coding ( which I'm good at ) level design,art, modelling? I feel like the requirements are an ocean and I have a liking to all but I'm good at coding, story writing and design. But I'm not sure what exactly do I need to have on my resume and how to apply for the same

[mint skiff]

You don't lie

coding, level design, art modelling, writing, design

These are all different jobs

[soft parcel]

I thoroughly and whole heartedly am ready I know the pay will be a massive downgrade and I won't be thrown into a top game dev job..but I prefer to be working where I'm passionate at than a job. I know I'm already working at a non game dev but software development job, but I still want to fulfill my dream and work towards it even if it means starting from.scratch

[agile basin]

it depends on the company as well. smaller companies will need you to multi task

bigger is better for first timers, as they have more focussed roles

they can afford it

smaller companies cant

[soft parcel]

Got it. What is the scene in industry..I am.passionate about game dev and ue, also confident in my coding and story /art . I want to translate this onto my resume .. but I'm not exactly sure what do I need to present

Also can you please share some examples (and experiences) when you say "top companies are better"

Also is my current backend skills of any use at all or it has no relevance? Or me having industry experience and having worked on live projects will atleast give me an edge ?(albeit not in game dev ofc)

[agile basin]

yeah working in software background definitely helps with the dev ops side of things

[agile basin]

companies of like 100 ppl roughly

or part of a larger publisher

[agile basin]

im sure u knw how transferrable programming skills can be

so for the most part your set, just send in cvs to as many as u can find

game projects will be a big plus

ones you can demonstrate game dev skills

[tardy schooner]

Just want to say that there are quite a lot of game companies who gladly take in junior developers/artists. I don't know if the culture is different in US but the last 3/5 companies I've worked at had a policy to take in the broader range of experience. One of them, Resolution Games, even have it as a strategy to let students do their university degree project at the company with the hope that they will want to work there afterwards.
My own career started with just sending in an application with no experience but my own fiddling around at home and worked out on the first try.
I believe lots of people get stuck on the job listing asking for certain things.
That said. I totally understand that some people are struggling with this, just wondering if it is a culture thing in certain countries? (Stockholm, Sweden here)

[soft parcel]

Can I use my CV as is with my development experience or I need some amount of projects specifically of Game dev..and which companies do you suggest me to target

[soft parcel]

Wow that sounds amazing..here game dev isn't seen as a career and is very niche and very less exposure as well. Can you guide me if you don't mind on the process through which you got through and maybe help me out if it's not much to ask
I'll be grateful to receive any help to any degree
Thanks

[agile basin]

any companies you can, most likelier with the ones that are looking for juniors.

It will help immensely if you can create a mini project

UE is the craze nowadays with companies

so try making something in that to show off

doesnt have to take months, just examples like flappy bird clone

[tardy schooner]

First of all. There are quite a few years since I got into the industry. Things are probably changing BUT I've sat many times on the other side of the interview table and talked to a lot of applicants and reviewed their work samples. Sometimes for my own team and sometimes for the company in general.
Things vary a lot due to different context. Bigger companies will want to have more specialized skills while smaller companies are looking for broader knowledge and people who are not afraid of wearing many hats.
A CV is always a good start even if it doesn't have game specific roles. If you are looking for frontend positions it's always good to at least be able to say that you have worked with the game engine before (be it hobby projects or similar). Other roles like backend, infrastructure, data engineering often is somewhat more forgiving as you might already have faced similar challenges even if they are not game related.
In the end, most sane recruiters will hire the person and not the experience. I have failed more people over their lack of passion, ability to work in team, communication skills, creative inabilities than over any work sample and definitely over any CV experiences.
Anyone can learn the code standards of a company.

[soft parcel]

Thank you for your detailed response. that fills me with more confidence. I do have some experience in game engines besides actual industry experience in BE. may I know the process and expectations to present myself better? If passion is one of the requirements I think I'd score 110/100 but that being said, is your company hiring/any official link I can get to apply for the job?
Regards

[tardy schooner]

Not the right channel for that but DM if you want.

[ionic sage]

hi guys, I wonder if video games make with Sora ( the text-to-video generator ) of ChatGPT could be made, I mean something like that is too good to be true right ? It can generate crazy realistic humanoid and scenery, we just need to figure out how to take input from user and render everything in real time.

[earnest pecan]

"just"?

cloud gaming itself is just blooming

it's impossible to create and deploy an AAA game in seconds (for now, at least)

[winged dragon]

is 4k usd per month a good salary for a remote mid level 3D Env Artist/Generalist?

[shut token]

What's wrong with the answer you were already given? #industry-chat message

[winged dragon]

need more opinions

[abstract badge]

To my mind 48k a year is entry level pay, but my experience is as a programmer outside the game industry.

[mint skiff]

55k would be a junior rate for an artist in Australia.

Wages tend to be a bit higher here but yes I think is a bit low for mid-level

[ionic sage]

god, you all making 4k USD per month, I only make 800 buck per month as full stack developer in here. What's wrong with me ??

oh no..

[nova coyote]

where's "here" tho? you might be getting 800 bucks but at least you're not paying $2500 for rent alone

[ionic sage]

I am planning to quit my job anyway and move to my mom basement in country side, every western friend i talk to laugh at my salary, i wanna cry

my rent is around 350 bucks per months in the city

in the ritual area, it's free hahaha... living with my mum

[nova coyote]

the salary doesnt really matter if you still can afford the same thing as a someone who's getting more but pays more for the same stuff

[ionic sage]

it's not true though, I have to work 1 year for an rtx 4090, you guys can have it in the few days.

[nova coyote]

i dont understand why people thinking living with your parents is such a bad thing? how is it bad to work, saving up money for a house or whatever while living with your parents not wasting money on rent

if you dont need to rent out then dont

</rant>

i guess that would only be fair if it's plausible for a 20-ish year old to afford a house. but to move out only to rent a place out? that in itself sound ridiculous to me

[ionic sage]

well, my family selling silk and there is that. Maybe I just moving home , I couldn't save up much in the city anyway, and web dev didn't pay much as I though it was like in Silicon Valley

[nova coyote]

that's a good* reason to rent

[chilly sundial]

That's also what i am currently doing. I'm still paying rent, and helping towards costs, just less than I would if I was alone.
It's a win win.

[ionic sage]

you know, in some country like in China or Singapore, if you couldn't afford a house or a car, you can say good bie to getting married, since other parents will look at you and lol.. look at this sucker.. no one will give my daughter to you.

yeah, daughter is rare these day.

they demand alot !!

so good bie to dating life

[shut token]

btw, it is "bye" not "bie". In case you were unaware.

Worked for @granite brook

[ionic sage]

if you didn't show up with a BMW or a Posche 911, and with 800 buck per month hahahaha... you can still have your imaginary girlfriend

[granite brook]

I honestly don't understand that ping, haha.

[shut token]

Because you and your wife met through UE. BIE is specific to UE. Laura said it wasn't romantic.

[granite brook]

Feels like I got pulled into a convo, pointed at, everyone laughed, and I got pushed out again. 🥲

Ah, yeah that's true, I guess.

[nova coyote]

yeah it's best case scenario honestly

[shut token]

Said "BIE" wasn't romantic. So it was just a joke on how you and your wife romanced through BlueprintImplementableEvent (BIE)

[granite brook]

Right, right. I have no further comment 😅

[ionic sage]

well, it's also lucky that I didn't ask to borrow my family money for college, so moving home will less embarrassing

they were like ho ho... look at who show up you little brat

[ripe sparrow]

i got layed off from a Unity job, made 1600 a month, havent been able to find a job for 5 months 😂

[winged dragon]

best websites to find remote unreal jobs?

[wary idol]

what if... you are in the process of building a house for you and your parents
Are you living with your parents or are your parents living with you

[nova coyote]

what if i put a flag of my face on top of someone's house. am i living in their house now or are they living in my house?

[wary idol]

[ionic sage]

oh yes, people do it like that at here all the time, parent or elder will leave back land or house for their children's in hope of being take care of when they grow old, the son or daughter will to take care of parent will get the reward, in this case, mostly Parrent's land or house

[abstract badge]

According to the rules of colonialism, if you plant your flag then you own the house.

[nova coyote]

YIPPE!! 🎉

[ionic sage]

And since land or house really value in here, I saw bother and sister tear each other apart to get it. I mean they fight each other, like not literally like in Mortal Kombat or anything

and house in here + land cost mostly the same as in US some time. With the median salary of 800 buck per month.

Every thing is incredible cheap, except lands

And cars, gov they hate cars

[mint skiff]

sounds like singapore

[west iris]

Hi. I developed a plugin and it's so far the most advanced project I've ever done so far. I don't know the level of advancement for a professional POV. If possible anyone can skim through the documentation of my plugin and return me a feedback like **advanced enough for entry level gameplay programmer ** or **still to basic for entry level ** I would greatly appreciate. here is the documentation. If you're short on time, please judge the plugin by looking at this page here

[mint skiff]

but to move out only to rent a place out?
terrible for my material quality of life but fantastic for my mental one lol

although the market has deteriorated so much (in just... 3 months) that i'm starting to feel like there's no point working at all.

[west iris]

that's what I am doing now I have 24 hours free to study

[oblique ice]

interesting conversations

[nova coyote]

yeah i suppose that's a good reason to move out too as long as you dont go from one stress source to another lel

[mint skiff]

It's a liberating kind of stress 😄

[soft parcel]

I think it's a good decision. There are different philosophies like the West believes in independence and living by yourself, where as if you move towards asian the emphasis is on collectivism and family interconnectedness wherein members are expected to support wnd care throughout.
It all depends on what you subscribe to, and whether you are happy or not(ofc others arnd u as well)

[ivory echo]

https://tenor.com/view/shiv-roy-gif-24206583

[ionic sage]

well, selling silk also got the fun in it i guess, we sell raw silk for others people to make clothes on top of it

there are vast fields of wild mulberry tree in here, we plant that type of tree, take their leaf and let the silk pupae to eat it

well technically we don't actually farm the tree and grow the silk pupae, there are others farmer who did it since they got a lot of lands, we specialize in making the silk, bulk it up and start selling it for other people whom need it.

well, you can say that we are playing faming and rpg in real life

[chilly sundial]

What's with all the religion spam lately

What does this have to do with careers?

[mint skiff]

Quit your job and join the seminary

[chilly sundial]

I don't get how anyone thinks that this will convince people of their message.
It's been well proven that annoying unrelated spam drives people away from the thing you're spamming about.

[willow vault]

i was thinking the same, i post about suplying art for someone in need for free, get called out for it, and spammed read the rules, meanwhile the conversation here for the past 2 days is completely off the topic

i guess people pick favorites

[chilly sundial]

Not at all. Just that job posts are strictly to their own channel. Off topic is permitted sometimes if it isn't drowning convo.

This post will be deleted, the mods probs just haven't seen it yet

[willow vault]

thats why i dont care anymore, 90% conversations on this channel i have through dm so people dont get triggered

[willow vault]

actualy topic question ,gets ignored, proceeds to talk about religion shit, its just so ironical

[rigid bluff]

Today, we gather as believers in Unreal Engine and followers of the Mannequin. In its pose, we find wisdom, in its animation, creation, and in its mesh, the structure of our worlds. Reflect on Unreal's parables, where lightmass shines and shaders cloak. Code, compile; debug, playtest.

Let us be like the blueprint, clear in intention and easy to debug. The path to enlightenment: well-commented code, named assets. Remember Unreal's commandments: no skipping leg day, no coveting thy neighbor's blueprint, always back up. Unreal is more than a game tool; it's a canvas for dreams, a testament to technology. Go forth, create, for the Mannequin guides us. May your framerates be high, your bugs few. AMen;

[abstract badge]

AMen

[nova coyote]

oh my lord and saviour forgive me for i have sinned. i have let the devil indoctrinate me into using casts instead of interfaces ||<- this is fine btw. casts wont kill your performance. it's only bad in blueprints for large actors because it forces them to load when they probably shouldnt||

lord oh lord please have mercy on my soul

[abstract badge]

Write 100 useful comments as pennance.

[nova coyote]

but the youtube man said it was

but yeah i should clarify it

[vocal birch]

Because it's important but thats my opinion. Let's be respectful. 👍

[abstract badge]

It may be important to you, but 1) it's off topic, and 2) it's not at all important to people who don't already believe it.

[vocal birch]

I respect your opinion

I'll be more considering next time 👍

[rigid bluff]

no more off topic discussion please, next one gets a strike ⚾

[chilly sundial]

amen 😆

I didn't scroll down 🥹

[willow vault]

you can do the same, or chit chat, i guess what will it be today ? 😎

[fluid thorn]

My request for internship got rejected. Mainly because I don't use unity 😢

[earnest pecan]

ahhh, unity

every non-unity dev's greatest nemesis

[ivory echo]

Probably another studio doomed to fail

[oblique ice]

not surprise, alot of them preference is the unity, they even asking me if i understand C# when interview, when i already displayed art

[round radish]

An artists that knows a bit of programming can make better art.

[plucky hatch]

Is there a place where I could hire someone just to help me fix a bug with EOSPlus? 🥲

[earnest pecan]

#freelance-jobs

[timid flame]

I’m an audio engineer and have been a music director for world tours . Trying to move into gaming and just wondering what the most essential things to learn are for sound design with UE . I can make any audio outside the software but is F Mod an essential or can I just learn blueprints ?

[plucky hatch]

Is there a standard price for hiring freelancers?

[chilly sundial]

no

the price is their hourly rate

what that rate is depends on region, experience, other costs they incur, benefits they may not have like medical insurance, travel costs if applicable, job complexity etc.

cute bird btw

[plucky hatch]

Thank you for the answer. I'm thinking of hiring a free lance to help me fix some UE bugs thought there a little extra detail am concern about...

1. How do people usually conduct this kind of job? Like do we did it with screen sharing and let the helper/fixer guide us?
2. How to we make sure the job is properly paid? Do we need middleman or like drafting a contact?

[chilly sundial]

It's also worth noting your contract is only worth your means of enforcement.
Don't put things in a contract if you can't actually follow through on them

you mean like a down payment initially and then milestone payments?

[shut token]

A jet a week? 🤔

[plucky hatch]

Noted 🐣

[chilly sundial]

Duly noted, thank you 🙂

Those are always good fun 🫠

[woeful iron]

infinite money glitch

[ivory echo]

One jet per bug fix

[normal drum]

Any Germans here who wants to talk about careerpath, feel free to dm me ✌️

[lilac walrus]

it's pretty easy to summarise the Unreal Engine developer career path in Germany right now;

Step One: Leave Germany

there's very little mainstream console & PC development that hasn't been absolutely battered by industry layoffs, and of that that does still exist, most isn't using Unreal 😐

[slender dirge]

Wwise is light years ahead of Unreal's audio engine and specifically makes a lot of sense when your workflow involves collaboration with other sound designers, composers, and such.
If you are planning to pivot sound design/mixing audio/music etc I'd say start with learning Fmod and Wwise first. When you working with the team - normally programmer, and ideally dedicated audio programmer will be responsible for implementing audio events.
And if you are planning on being a one-man show, then yes, Wwise's Unreal plugin has all the necessary logic exposed to Blueprints.

Feel free to shoot a message with anything specific, I am a live sound engineer who turned into a game developer myself 🙂

[shell pilot]

Does anyone know if the Unreal Engine Fellowship will come back?

[plucky hatch]

I was stupid. I was assuming that every TED's speaker was the most saint, highly educated qnad qualified, with the highest credentials, in the world. But then I began to notice that some speakers that go in TED's red circle have their own share of criticism, haters...

I was going to contact quite a few, but now I'm not going to do that.

[woeful iron]

why would you even think that in the first place though

especially TEDx , anyone can organise those

[plucky hatch]

Have anyone ever try consultation service on Fiverr/Upwork about UE bug fix?
I'm booking for one but after reading a review on reddit, I start to regret my choice, as it seem not worth it.

[shut token]

It's very hit or miss. But hey, you get what you pay for.

[woeful iron]

it doesn't look like it's made out of cotton though

[plucky hatch]

Please don't turn the career chat into my profile discussion, lol 🐣

[plucky hatch]

Guys, I just stumble upon this person. Who is he? Seem pretty trustworthy as consultant.
https://forums.unrealengine.com/t/paid-unreal-engine-tutoring-and-consulting/50954/1

Not sure if this is the right place to talk about it, but it about UE and freelance, so career, i guess.

[woeful iron]

why do you expect us to know him?

[plucky hatch]

I don't expect everyone to know, thought I do expect a few to had tried it, and give me some insight on his service.

Like the post start at Dec 2015, now 2024, last comment 4 day ago. The chance seem viable.

[timid flame]

Hero for this response I’ll reach out

[timid flame]

are Wwise Certifications something people actually like to see or is just knowing the software and having a good CV enough?

[valid ridge]

Hello all what's the good resource to start learning gameplay programming for a beginner????

[valid ridge]

Thank you

[keen vault]

Gorka Games and mat aspland on youtube
Just don't overuse Cast to's... That's the biggest problems with tutorials in general that the code is not very performant but it is a great place to start

[chilly sundial]

don't use gorka games for gameplay programming, or anything, they don't preach the best things

nor matt aspland

a gameplay programmer role isn't bp exclusive

[abstract badge]

Come now. If you are going to reccommend against something at least say what you would actually prefer instead. 🙂

[chilly sundial]

I don't need to, it's already been linked by Laura :P

[abstract badge]

Oh, you mean the Epic games community site?

[chilly sundial]

Yeah, the official Epic guides on there are pretty good

[abstract badge]

Yeah OK I can see that. I've liked their content that I've watched so far. I just wish they had a way to search the content instead of making you scroll through twenty pages of listings

[shut token]

Avoid Gorka Games like the plague

[chilly sundial]

I'd also suggest the obligatory learncpp.com, a gameplay programmer will be using c++

[oblique ice]

agree, epicgames community site is really helpfull

[surreal rock]

Oh I dont know, Gorka has taught some decent stuff, not sure why he should be avoided. No you tube channel should be considered the holy grail.

[nimble geyser]

This my opinion only I could be wrong, he just shows you fastest and easiest way to achieve something it doesn't teach you many other underlying concepts and subsystems in background, so yea you learn something but at the same time you don't really know what you are doing

[surreal rock]

learning must begin somewhere

[nimble geyser]

I rather learn by not watching YT turtorials

[surreal rock]

ok

but does that make Gorka garbage? Nope. Its so easy on the internet to throw stones at people you cant see. Gorka put thousands of hours into his videos and probably didnt make that much money doing it. Did he have to? No. So I will give the guy some credit for at least trying to help others. A lot more credit than I give random people who piss on others work but never offer up their own for critique.

[shut token]

No - I'm tired of helping people unlearn what they learned from him

Gorka put thousands of hours into his videos
No he absolutely does not. He literally just shotgun videos. With no small amount being the exact same content from other people.

[surreal rock]

I dont know why I am having this debate with people on the internet. LOL I am a fool. To ask for civility and so on ... how so un 2024

out of this convo.

[shut token]

This is the problem with YT's algorithm. It favors a blast of content rather than good content.

[surreal rock]

then you go make some good content sport

bye

[shut token]

Just because someone does something doesn't mean it should be commended when it does more harm than good.

[surreal rock]

I will look forward to your 300 video, thousand hour series that does everything "right"

just ping me whne you have it done

[chilly sundial]

You've got to be making some money if gamedev.tv partner with you to make a paid course because clearly your name is well known enough that it's going to do well. Obviously nothing in comparison to the larger YouTube space, but that's because we're in a niche genre

You only have have to look at his recent videos to see he's trying to make algorithm friendly content instead of good learning materials

like seriously a BP only "GTA 6" tutorial series

[shut token]

But it's okay - because at least he's trying or something like that

Screw actually helping people

You know - the hard work

Just throw stuff out there

And be praised because at least he's trying

[chilly sundial]

or making a "horror game" in a... ah yeah... 1 hour and 21 minute "full" course

[shut token]

And use long deprecated parts of the engine

But hey - at least he is trying 🙄

[chilly sundial]

Just looking at that horror game one now, and yeah. No explanation on why the things are being done.
An acceptance radius of 120 on an AIMoveTo, because why not. No explanation of what that does, or why it's 120 specifically. Nothing

Just speedrunning doing a thing

Which don't get me wrong is great and all, but leaves you relying on tutorials to do anything else, because you haven't learned how to make things.
Learning must indeed start somewhere, but there are resources out there that explain the why. I also don't think learning a blueprint focused channel would be the best when you're not going for a blueprint focused role.

[ivory echo]

Tbh there’s no sense in trying to convince these advocates. You can bring the horse to the water but if it wants to drown on the Gorka raft, I say let it.

[abstract badge]

Hmm. I've heard good things about Gorka in other places, but I have to admit the only time I watched one of his videos I stopped watching after a short while because it wasn't answering the "why" questions I had and was just presenting a cookie cutter approach. If that's his pattern I doubt if I'll get anything useful from him.

[frigid minnow]

am I allowed to advertise?

[wary hull]

If you scroll most of the way down there is a Job Board section for both parties 🙂

[frigid minnow]

thanks

[ivory echo]

See #rules

[sudden patio]

Hey dear artists 🙂 I am working on a course for 3D artists, and I would need a tiny help from your side, would you highlight on the screenshot beyond what are your main pain points in each column ? That would help a lot !! Thanks!

[earnest pecan]

that's when I completely stopped watching him lol

I visited the channel sometimes to see how things can be done

[west stone]

necrobump but im totally with you on this, IDK who this youtuber is yet but i absolutely despise how most of the unreal tutorials (especially in the official docs) are like just "lol do this and then this and then this" like great now I know how to build your extremely specific stuff with tangential relation to what I want to build... thanks for nothing 🙃

[ivory echo]

you're usually lucky if the docs go as far as to give a precise, working example hehe

[junior wraith]

Any advice for someone with ZERO knowledge on ue5/blender that wants to make non profit short films?

[brave forge]

Just start tbh. Make mistakes. Find what works, what doesn't for you.

[chilly sundial]

The best advice would be to get to know those tools imo

[mint skiff]

have fun :)

[chilly sundial]

If you have 0 knowledge, play around and start getting some. Take some video courses on modelling fundamentals. Play with unreal and learn things like the sequencer.
Mess around, break things, make things, they'll probably look awful to begin with, but you'll get better and better.

As BillyBobCornCob said though, the most important thing is to have fun. It's the best way to not burn yourself out 🙂
If you want some beginner UE5 resources, theres links pinned in #ue5-general
Plenty of blender videos on youtube as well :D

[main sable]

Guys iam not really sure if its a chat for things like this but i need painfully honest take on my portfolio. I have 2 years of experience with 3D https://www.artstation.com/kuzu3d

[mint skiff]

What position do you want to be hired for. No mention of this here or on portfolio

[main sable]

Mostly prop making

[mint skiff]

For games?

[main sable]

yes

[mint skiff]

Then get rid of everything on your portfolio that isn't related to that position. Keep 3-5 pieces.

Unfortunately your 'game art' pieces are absolutely not up to scratch

clear technical issues with normals, poor understanding of materials and texture composition. Forms and silhouettes seem off too

Sorry this is very terse, discord is not a great way to give critique

[main sable]

Alright. Thanks tho, it will help me see what level iam on atm

[mint skiff]

Some of your wireframes show that you've done no optimisation or baking of models - implies you are unaware of game asset workflow.

Recommend posting on somewhere like polycount for more detailed critique

[main sable]

the scythe,axe and blowtorch have polycounts in the description

[chilly sundial]

polycount is a game art forum :P

https://polycount.com/

[main sable]

oh

explains a lot

[night terrace]

wanna come help me with a project remaking garrys mod darkrp on unreal engine 5?

[chilly sundial]

they already know

they keep spamming this around

[modern relic]

I thought we could just DM you though

[modern relic]

Wake me up when you got some lite rp plans instead

[trail sky]

Hello everyone. I am on the beginning of my journey to achieve my dream, in Unreal Engine. I would like to ask you professionals a question and I guess nobody knows the answer, so I would like to hear Your opinion. A friend of mine is working as 2D illustrator and he told me, that maybe in 5 years his work will be replaced by AI. He thinks it won't be fast, but eventually it might happen. What do you think? Are human resources and professionals in Unreal Engine in jeopardy?

[earnest pecan]

I'd say focus on what you want to do now, now and not think of what would happen 5 years later

because a lot of things can happen in 5 years

epic games could go bankrupt, you might not exist, the industry might not exist or hell, even the world might not exist

there could be new ways of developing games, newer and better game engines could enter the field, etc etc

[lilac walrus]

A lot can happen in 5 years, but it's worth noting that;

• AI can never draw anything new, and it will never be able to. It is only ever going to be capable of recreating images in the style of the source data fed into it to begin with. It literally cannot exist without illustrators and the output it has is going to be questionable in terms of legality.
• AI can't take feedback and iterate, and though this is being worked on, it is always going to be fairly limited. It can't understand the technical complexities required in different art pipelines (you'd have to train new models each time, if it's even possible).

[woeful iron]

both of those are wrong imo, AI can draw something new, it's just always based on something existing, but the link can be very obscure. And with the text prompting you can correct generated images in a sense.

Still I don't think 2D artists will become obsolete

but demand for them is definitely gonna go down imo

cause a lot of 2D art is "good enough" when done by AI

[lilac walrus]

it can generate a new image, but it can never produce something conceptually new because it has literally no source data to work from. If I ask it to produce an illustration of technical diagram of a fictional machine to perform a specific function, it is going to fail.

Sure, you'll get some kind of diagram, but it's not going to pass anything more than a cursory glance

the copyright issue isn't going to go away either - inevitably you're liable for anything your algorithm produces. You can get around that by ensuring your training data is all suitably sourced, but then it is also much more limited in capability.

[chilly sundial]

Ooh yeah not sure I like that. The showcase image is too uncanny

[night terrace]

lol

[wary idol]

It extrapolates "patterns and concepts" it has learned to create new concepts (if someone is curious about technical details I'll gladly explain)

It's why asking for a banana tentacle monster inspired by Cthulhu works and will create just that

I still don't think artists will get replaced in any foreseeable future, demand will go down, mostly by people who can't afford real artists anyways

[chilly sundial]

Yeah I don't think companies are going to get rid of artists.
They're just going to hire artists that can use the tool.

What's going to be more preferable, for a company that can afford artists: hiring an artist that can use the tools to speed up their iterative workflow, or some senior exec tapping away at prompts with no idea how to turn it into their exact want.

It's why that link above, the Broken Sword dev specifically mentions they can't afford the artists, so they're doing this.
As a result, the art has that uncanny AI look, something that wouldn't happen if an actual artist was using the tool to iterate with their own workflow.

I also believe it will take a fair amount of time for this to happen, because the legal world moves slowly, and some of the legal obscurities of the technology mean there's probably a good amount of companies who will shy away until the dust has settled. You don't want to have engrained your architecture into it, just to realise what your artists have been doing isn't transformative enough for you to be able to own it

[winged dragon]

hi guys, what are some cool websites or places to find short freelance work? Besides here and upwork/fiver

[modern relic]

not sure id consider any work-hire site "cool"

[round radish]

What if they're hosted in the arctic?

[plucky hatch]

lol... My post about game design being hard and not a bed of roses was liked by a multi olympic medal winner retired volleyball coach. I used one of his quotes and mentioned him. He liked it and caused an influx of followers into my linkedin account. Unfortunately this is not going to get me anything but views...

[plucky hatch]

Hey all! How did you guys land a job as a developer, either art, software development outside of game dev, or game development? I have a portfolio kind of with all of those, java mods to assembly kernel to Houdini and Unreal Engine and Unity. all my best work which i consider pretty damn good, but I find it practically impossible to be considered let alone interviewed for jobs, applied to over 400 at this point, continue to, all programming since I presumed that industry was larger, but I just feel kinda fucked lol.

It kind of doesn’t matter if my portfolio and github is awesome, custom built website and etc. if I have no previous work experience in programming and no degree yet, even though I am in community college prepping to transfer in the next couple years

Problem is, need a job to get a job lol

Sounds like I need to go on a PR trip 😂

Even outside game development, general software development has been impossible as well, which is a bit rough, since I would assume my github would set me apart in depth of work, but hell, what do i know

Yeah from what I’ve seen it’s basically knowing people, and they recommend you to people who ask them.

And that’s whilst being very prominent in the server

[lilac walrus]

I got into the industry via making mods for UT2004; I did architectural visualisation stuff in UE2/3 and on the back of that got a job at Microsoft when one of their studios migrated from their proprietary engine to UE3 (this was before the release of UT3, so very few people had experience back then)

I would expect a lot of people's routes into the industry are quite similar, including newer developers today. The trick is to be making things, and to be seen making things.

[plucky hatch]

Yeah, and I have none since the market is down hard, and I have no relevant corporate experience. Not that I care really, i’ll take a low ass salary just to get in, but that doesn’t matter, I can list a salary lower than a 30 hour fast food job and get rejected without batting an eye

[plucky hatch]

That’s what i’ve heard! I know a guy with a very similar story, but even on the bleeding edge with my projects, visibility is EVERYTHING, how do you broadcast it to the people it matters most to?

Yeah, it seems to be better to talk to actual people and broadcast your stuff out, i just finished a simple automation addon for blender to make my workflow faster but mostly just to add some tool to add, I just don’t know how to broadcast it

I have a similar tool that i should publish for Houdini that transforms a Heightfield to a Nanite enabled mesh, cuts it into X equal pieces and exports it to unreal, Make a map as big as you want with no lag, but how do I tell people 😂

Twitter is very close circle, youtube would be cool if I wanted to spend the time editing stuff, and maybe just posting it in discord but that seems to closed, how many people seeking talent would hear about it from youtube versus discord

[woeful iron]

I would start by deciding on what you want to be

cause now you list yourself as artist and programmer

very little companies will hire one person to do both

and if you apply to programming jobs, the art part might "take away" and vice versa

also from just the chatting here you seem over confident in your work, if you let this shine through in application it also might be a red flag to companies

it's good to be proud of your work, but also be realistic

[plucky hatch]

Oh yeah, I get that, I like doing either, I have a good bit of knowledge in both, more so in programming. I like whatever, and typically work on projects in phases, more programming only, game dev, etc, so i list em both

[woeful iron]

also, you list a few art things on your portfolio, but not really any programming projects as far as I can see

and trust me, recruiters (or anyone probably) are not gonna check your github

[plucky hatch]

For sure, I just present what I have and lowball the salary a ton right now, because most of the entry level jobs are still over what i need to live on and i presume lowballing them gets their attention. I def believe in my own abilities a lot

[woeful iron]

(which also doesn't have any game related projects as far as I see)

lowballing can have the averse effect

if you're willing to work for half what someone else wnats, there's probably something wrong with you

[plucky hatch]

Gotcha, I thought they would…
As for game dev projects most of it is mods hosted on sites and listed on my resume but not really listed on my public stuff now that i think of it 🤔

[woeful iron]

if you wanna be a game dev, try to make some small actual games or tech demos

[plucky hatch]

I don’t go that low haha, i typically match what the job description is or go a few percent lower

[woeful iron]

also your project descriptions for your art are rather lacking I think. You just post the "final" screenshot, not details about the project, process, wireframes or clay renders

[plucky hatch]

Tech demos is a good idea, i’ve been working on larger scale stuff as of now. I’ve really only hunted for general programming gigs, most recruiting sites do ask for my github, and ask me to write about it, so that seemed pretty solid

[plucky hatch]

That’s a good point, I could include more for sure

[woeful iron]

and on your site try to focus a bit more on what you achieved instead of on you, saying you have x years of experience in software is one thing, but also list a project or something that can prove this competence

I'll be honest based on your website I would not hire you either, both as artist or developer

as developer you don't really showcase any of your skills in what I can see

and in the art thing, it's very limited, only "final" shots and the competition is very fierce, I've seen junior profiles with way more advanced projects

not to say that yours is bad to be clear

[plucky hatch]

Yeah just that the competition is providing more

I should really compare mine to others, i never have done that…

[woeful iron]

e.g. this is student showcase of where I studied https://www.digitalartsandentertainment.be/page/15/Student+showcase

of course they show the best ones

but you are also competing against those

and these people are still in school

hope that I didn't shatter your dreams, but there's work to be done if you wanna make it

[plucky hatch]

I kind of have 2 types of jobs i’ve been gunning for, entry level software development or testing, and environment art, since the houdini shit has definitely solved a lot of issues i see people deal with in large scale heightmaps. Do you think I should just create 2 pages for Environment art showcase and discussion and Programming work? Split it out? Or just choose one outright?

[plucky hatch]

Nah I appreciate it a lot actually, it’s much better to know how to improve rather than be stuck confused lmao

[woeful iron]

that's up to you I guess

I personally made my portfolio so that my programming work was the home page, but if you went through menus, you could still see my 3d work

[plucky hatch]

That’s another thought too, i could just make 2 hidden pages if it seems like it would make me less qualified if i was split in my work, and share them depending on the job, same thing with resumes

Multiple

[woeful iron]

I think choosing one area would be the best, but that's my opinion

if you're really undecided you can keep with both

but then don't throw them together in one page for sure

and send the correct one as landing page when applying for a job

also, do you have a resume? or is it just not present on your website?

[plucky hatch]

it’s annoying, i would love to do environment art, and have more shit i can throw on a page for it, or render out more, but I have much more time programming, languages known, etc. but not a lot to throw up on a website

[woeful iron]

it's more about what you would like to do for the foreseeable future

[plucky hatch]

I do, I just generally do not share my resume with anyone, personal info and all that, if someone wants it to legitimately consider hiring me i can send it, usually i send my site with it when applying to stuff

[plucky hatch]

Yeah agreed

[woeful iron]

Do you have any formal education?

[plucky hatch]

That’s another rough part yeah, began community college 6 months ago and plan on transferring out to a 4 year college for a bachelors in CompSci in the next year-ish

High school diploma obv, if that was a question

[woeful iron]

I meant higher education indeed

it helps a lot for landing a first job

especially outside of gamedev

[plucky hatch]

Indeed, they ask quite a lot about that, can’t really help it more than where i an now unfortunately

[woeful iron]

well what can they go off otherwise if you have no work experience and no real programming projects to show off though

but if you plan to be in college for 4 years, why are you looking for a job?

[plucky hatch]

I gotta pay for it somehow!

Also, heard it from lots of people, i’ll hit a ceiling eventually, won’t be able to progress because the job requires a bachelors or I can’t manage a team without one, etc.
My dad had the same issue, wasn’t able to get promoted no matter how much he tried and his bosses wanted to, degree was required

[woeful iron]

also that really depents on where you work and in what field

at least here

e.g. in healthcare, you kind of need those degrees legally speaking

but in my company for example you could perfectly start with high school diploma and become vice president (in theory)

[plucky hatch]

That was in I believe EE, he also constantly had to explain at every job interview why he didn’t have a degree, made him look like an idiot to recruiters, have all the experience, why wouldn’t you go to school

Yeah I do mean Electrical Engineering, Board design, etc.

I thought so too

Thats kind of nice to hear

Meh i’m in the US

[woeful iron]

we can call anyone engineer, but if you want the abbreviation of the title in front of your name, you need the degree

[plucky hatch]

Yeah that’s what i assumed

Oh same I wouldn’t if I didn’t think it’d help a lot, almost every software development job requires a bachelors in comp sci or related fields though

Above entry level stuff

Even then they want you to be actively pursuing that bachelors

Hmm i haven’t noticed that, even then though, without that whole actively pursuing part, preeeeety hard to get a job while competing with people in school lol

[woeful iron]

well that makes sense, you have no experience, they have no experience + a degree

yeah US is wild

[plucky hatch]

Oh yeah thats why i am not gonna get any student loan debts

Trying to get the job before transferring lol

It is horrible

Colleges i’m looking at are not super expensive either relatively speaking ti the pay if these jobs

I just need like, any job really

I will definitely be messing with my site a LOT though, that should help

Maybe start going to the local dallas hackers meetups and other stuff too

Get to know people

Nice thing is i dont need a job this instant, so i have time to mess with stuff, make small little plugins, projects etc.

[shut token]

I do full-stack web development as my day job. I broke in by working in Tech Support first and then moving over.

Gamedev wise - I just started my own company and work on my own games. So I passed my own interview with myself. The artist that I hire though, I met through a gamejam. So doing gamejam's could help with networking as well. I personally don't like gamejam's all that much though.

[abstract badge]

Doing tech support is often a good pathway into more advanced computer careers. You can learn so much from it

[dusky fable]

Most game studios get hundreds, if not thousands of applicants for every entry level position posted. That means we can filter out candidates without a degree and still have more than enough. We can then filter out anyone who doesn't have a game specific tech demo in their portfolio. Then maybe the list is small enough for someone to reasonably go through. Getting in without a degree is extra hard mode.

A reference, someone who is trusted has worked on something with you will move you to the top of the pile. Often that pile might be really small, because the team is asked for referrals before a job is even posted. I got my current job that way and was the only one interviewed. My first job was also a referral from a classmate.

[dusky fable]

Portfolio advice: for game dev, we don't want "Jack of all trades" devs. We want specialists. Smaller studios will have more generalists within a discipline, such as gameplay programmers, but larger studios want masters of their field.

Be very careful with over estimating your experience and skills. I guarantee you that you do not "learn any tool faster than anyone else." You also don't have professional experience, so don't act like you do. This behavior will make most people pass on you very quickly. People who are realistic about their skills are open to the amount of learning that is required, especially for a first job. Those that aren't, tend to have ego problems and are difficult to work with.

You need to show us your skills, and not tell us. Saying you are "developing high-end solutions for VR," sounds like an over exaggeration especially when you don't have anything to back it up.

As others have said, you do not have any programming tech demos and will likely be filtered out early.

[plucky hatch]

@dusky fable thanks for the amazing insight. I do hope (sorry don’t mean to be rude) that you are wrong on the degree filtering part (I myself don’t have a degree and I am aiming for this job)

The other filterings seem normal except for the refers being on top which just feels unfair

Referals *

I have a non related degree anyways but yeah

[dusky fable]

Focus on smaller lesser known studios then. They will have less competition than your more popular studios. That might mean doing casino games or something. It's not impossible, it's just much harder. Once you get into higher levels, the need for a degree becomes less.

Referrals sound unfair and then you get enough experience and you understand why they are important. A big part of working on a team successfully is that you aren't an asshole to work with. You need to have skills, but it's far more important to not be an asshole. That can be really hard to interview for, because people don't show how they really are. People who are referred tend to not be assholes.

[plucky hatch]

I see thanks, what does casino games mean? Like mobile game companies?

[dusky fable]

Casinos have video game machines. There are also mobile casino games.

My partner (who does have a degree) got her first job making Facebook games. She's now a gameplay lead at a AAA studio. Many people start out in mediocre or bad studios and work their way up.

[plucky hatch]

Alright I see

[plucky hatch]

Gotcha, I have been aiming for smaller studios yeah, but that almost seems like a harder shot, they will want the best of the best, bigger studios could afford to mentor someone and teach them how to work in a professional environment no?

[abstract badge]

Be sure to list your degree anyway. It still shows you have the persistence and dedication to complete a degree program, and that can actually get you in the door in some places (generally speaking that is)

[plucky hatch]

As for this, i specifically aim to dodge as many of these filters as possible, jobs that explicitly do not require degrees and lower level positions, I don't typically try to apply to entry level software dev positions, I aim for software tester and QA, easier to get into and have a career path upwards

[dusky fable]

Every studio wants the best of the best. They will hire the best candidate that accepts.

[dusky fable]

QA is not the path to engineer roles that it once was.

[abstract badge]

At my last company the QA people were considered their own separate discipline from the engineers

[plucky hatch]

Really? I talked with a dev in the industry for the past 20 odd years, he recommended it. Even if it's not, the idea still stands, work up through an easier position

[plucky hatch]

Oh yeah, this guy and another guy who did it said that the idea is to work on projects and show your skills to the engineering department as much as possible, and they might pull you into their area

It's how one guy I know did it

Of course no guarantee, but an easier job to get into

[dusky fable]

It was a much more common path before, but I haven't seen it happen once in the past 10 years.

I've seen a lot of people in QA try, though.

[grave cove]

I think I've seen it once in my 20yrs.
I've seen more QA transition to production or design.
But a lot of places are making much more of an effort to turn QA into an actual career instead of being used as a stepping stone.

[dusky fable]

QA is often outsourced so it's even further removed from the rest of the dev team.

[grave cove]

that too. though I think any really good studio will/should have some sort of on-site QA presence. not enough to actually ship, but some.

[dusky fable]

Yeah. I've seen a lot of small in house QA that are high level roles with a larger outsourced team.

[plucky hatch]

Is there a better path into dev then?

It's probably partly do to the rise of remote work as well, no one is gonna come walk by your desk lol

[grave cove]

degree, portfolio, luck (unfortunately), networking
being willing to take any job can help since it's easier to jump job to job then getting the first.

[dusky fable]

No, it's been changing long before that. QA is less thought of as "unskilled" these days, because it's absolutely true. I've seen a handful go from QA to design or production, but it's been over 10 years since I've seen someone go to engineering.

Focus on school and get a job doing something else until your junior year when you'll be able to look for internships.

[lilac walrus]

FWIW, I have never filtered out candidates without a degree because a degree has never been a particularly valuable signifier of a candidate's capability, attitude etc. In terms of applying for a role, it's generally only useful for immigration purposes and only tells me that someone had enough money to get a tertiary education. My experience with game degrees in particular is that a significant percentage of them aren't actually worth the paper they're printed on anyway and many graduates successfully pass the course without ever picking up any tangible skills to speak of. Some companies may genuinely still filter out by degree, but this would strike me as a red flag as the games industry is a highly vocational industry, not an academic one.

If there are a large number of applications for a junior position, the very first thing I filter out for is relevant previous work experience or portfolio. You can have one or the other, but both is obviously better, and these things are good for demonstrating aptitude. Both team work and solo projects can be nice to see in these cases, because we want to know that you can work well with other people, but also that you have tangible skills of your own that you're bringing to the table. A strong portfolio that includes videos (or stills for art disciplines) of the kind of work we'd expect a candidate to be doing is likely to score an interview, but it is also worth remembering a portfolio is only as good as it's worst work - so it is better to have a handful of your strongest and most relevant pieces of work on display than a scattershot of everything (it shouldn't need to be said, but if you're applying for programming roles, art in your portfolio doesn't score many points).

If I need to narrow it down further because of sheer volume of candidates, I'll exclude candidates who did not write a cover letter - it's a fairly small and simple thing which may make it seem silly, but because it's such an easy thing to include it also represents a base minimum amount of effort expended in making the application. If you made it past the portfolio/experience filter and write me a nice cover letter, you're probably in a good place. I tend to default to the 'Inigo Montoya' format for cover letters which keeps them short and sweet. Introduce yourself, explain your relevance, sign off with a call to action. In practice this probably means you'll say what kind of developer you are, what kind of stuff you have done and would like to do, how that fits into the role/company you're applying for, and then sign off with an invitation for me to reach out for more information etc. If you're writing more than a couple of hundred words it's probably too long, keep it to the point.

The only time a degree might come into play theoretically is if you have two otherwise identical candidates who have made it past the interview process and you need a tie-breaker to distinguish between them. I say theoretically, because in practice I have never seen this happen. It doesn't happen because between portfolios, multiple rounds of interviews, and likely a returned skill test, a tie-break situation isn't really going to happen.

As for QA going into engineering, it absolutely does happen. It happens so often that there is now an entire career path dedicated to combining the two disciplines, and you'll commonly see it titled something like SDET; 'Software Development Engineer in Testing'.

it's still a fairly niche position, much like other hybrid vocations (tech art, tech design, etc) - but it took me literally seconds to find job postings;

[sharp quartz]

Does anyone have any success stories making a career change into using Unreal design/programming skills as a primary tool in your job? I'm enjoying learning but having something (that feeds me) to aim for seems like a nice motivating factor

[wary idol]

Wait, since when they have an office in Croatia
Last time I talked to them (ages ago) the closest one was in Prague

[lilac walrus]

may have relocated one of their offices

[wary idol]

yeah, had no clue

[plucky hatch]

This is super helpful, thank you so much, I saw SDET jobs and was VERY confused by them, so i didn't apply, i'll have to look at them more

Right now I am trying to complete this blender plugin I made to throw up on my github, then i'm gonna work on my site quite a lot

[rigid bluff]

I wish I had ChatGPT when I wrote all 3 of the cover letters I've written

[nimble geyser]

Is it good idea in your CV to break down your own personal projects Project A:
-small decription
--Archetectures and technologies used
--What you learned (small super brief example,) etc... since most of companies dont even bother to click(github) link in CV

[plucky hatch]

I have that! I know a guy who's been in the industry for 20 odd years and he helped me out, basically said the same exact thing you said, can confirm this is good advice

This was one I had

[nimble geyser]

Awesome thank you for feedback! 🙂

[plucky hatch]

Yeah they annoy me but i generally just make generic templates for different jobs and just fill it in, it always says the same shit with insert company name tbh

[plucky hatch]

CLI git versus Github Desktop or another interface like Fork? Big difference

Much more powerful, GH desktop is nice but nowhere near as nice as git cli

True, i should just remove that tbh

[chilly sundial]

Yeah I can't argue with that one. Both work.

I use Sourcetree/P4V until it doesn't do something I need it to, in which case I'll do the thing via the command line

[chilly sundial]

How is this career chat lol

[ashen lynx]

Who even comes up with tasks like that darn...

[ivory echo]

Idk, but I always hated students like that in college. Waiting until the last minute and then going around begging people to solve it for them. Especially in group activities lol

[round radish]

I'm more concerned with "let's go back in the time"

[merry roost]

This is not relevant to #career-chat

[steady quiver]

Hi Everyone!! Hope you're fine! I'm doing a very important survey about mental health in our industry. It's for a great cause. would you spare a moment to help us w this? THANK YOU https://forms.gle/m8aMEBa6VoJNMdFv6

[ivory echo]

Gamedevs don’t experience stress, crunching is a lifestyle choice. 🙃

[wary idol]

what mental health

[plucky hatch]

Shots fired lol

[abstract badge]

Crunching is a management choice to try and cut the budget. Tell them to F off

[plucky hatch]

How do you guys find jobs? I use job boards like zip recruiter but there is very few SDET jobs, and QA jobs, the ones that are there are senior level positions, what do you guys use?

Finding smaller studios would help to

[chilly sundial]

Platforms like linkedin often offer jobs. There's a ton of them.

A bit of research into the company via Glassdoor helps too.

Aside from that, checking the careers pages of companies you know is a solid one too

[plucky hatch]

Could you elaborate a bit? I meant that the jobs i'm seeing are solely senior level positions, rather than what I have a chance at; entry level junior stuff. I can't tell if you mean I am looking for senior positions or not

In that case though, do those recruiters say how they found you?

Ahhhh gotcha

I gotta find some to go to

what places do they generally troll? any places related to the stuff they do or is it more specific?

[abstract badge]

That might be true, or it might not. I for one would be interested to know how you go about things. I'm on the verge of starting a new job hunt and apart from linkedin and glassdoor I really don't know how to go about it, and especially I don't know how to go about finding independent contract work, which is what I would prefer

So if I may generalize a bit, did you do things like getting involved in local tech social groups? LIke where I live there are several language specific developer groups that have monthly meetings

[tame musk]

Hi wondering who in the game dev pipeline deals the most with styling of everything ? Is it the concept artist?

[mint skiff]

Some form of art director.

[tame musk]

Thank you, but isn’t art direction typically senior level management in a way?

[tame musk]

I thought concept artist would be less upper level

[mint skiff]

Yes. They aren't responsible for the art direction.

Art directors.. direct them on what look & feel they want, concept artists go away and make stuff, art directors give feedback, repeat.

[tame musk]

Well let me put it another way. I have a fine tuned radar for things that look cool, I can draw, I can hard surface model. I don’t have experience w texturing or uv mapping, or engine work, and I definitely don’t have the experience to art direct (unless jr or assistant) so I wanted to find a position to explore that suits what I’m good at. Then, maybe later on, I can art direct lol

[mint skiff]

That would be a concept artist, although my advice would be to learn those things you say you don't have experience with.

They're kind of fundamental for any (3D) artist. Concept art is one of the most competitive roles of the lot.

[tame musk]

Yeah I would like to but there are too many tools. I can work w Blender zbrush & 3d coat, but unreal 5 is its own monster 🤣. I assumed concept artist is the most competitive, but I wanted to see if there were other related avenues. I appreciate the guidance here 🙏

[woeful iron]

you definitely want to know unwrapping and texturing for any job that involves 3d models though

[plucky hatch]

I was considering taking on MIT’s OpenCourseWare programs, they have quite a few college courses that they threw up on the site for free; outside of the benefit of that knowledge, would any recruiter care if that was on my resume? I presume not yeah?

That’s really interesting! I haven’t even considered a local job board as a thing lol

Hmm gotcha, i thought so, even the Helsinki MOOC courses are so good too, that taught me java, but it doesn’t matter on a resume lol

It’s funny how it can give you the actual skill but means nothing lol

Yeah

[oak birch]

Hey, all... I'm a long-time aspiring model curator... With Google being infinitely funneled for personalization, I'm having a hard time finding answers to what factors could be universal in the gaming industries.
What file extensions are typically sought after by people needing 3d models? Painted, textured, or no? I'm strictly mobile, ATM, since I'm economically and technically broke, for now.
Any guidance out there?

I can't afford courses, and had a little Maya self training as a youth ||(thanks, Dad!)|| but I CAN make original portfolio work, and such, even though I have no formal training or paid experience.

[woeful iron]

wth is a model curator?

you mean creator?

or is this something new

or you curate models as in selecting good ones? but what is your added value at that point?

[oak birch]

I wouldn't know, I meant creator... Dunno why it said curator, since I doubt troubleshooting models is a niche. >_>

My best guess is auto correct, since I had to factory reset my phone less than a week ago, and my keyboard is getting used to me, again.

[oak birch]

Honestly, what was the original message? 🤔

[woeful iron]

I think most games work with assets in fbx format?

and mostly textured stuff on portfolio

[oak birch]

Thank you!

[green oyster]

one avenue that is worth it for making some actual money is the UE marketplace, there is always room for high quality assets and people do buy them, anything goes, realistic or stylized, etc

[oak birch]

I saw that... I just don't want to go polluting the market with something that isn't useable or in demand. I haven't taken a look, yet, but I'm seeing some works in progress... This place is amazing!!😁

[wary hull]

It's funny how fbx became the pseudo standard

With the way it's all changed on import, and then again when you build, tbh I hope that one pixar was working on becomes standard

If I remember correctly Unitys blender import would just use the fbx exporter and importer

[shut token]

I hear good things about USD in UE

And we've been having a good enough time with gltf as well

Screw fbx honestly

[modern relic]

Why that? I know literally nothing about the format other than its an option to export in blender and some assets I have use it

[shut token]

Because it's a PITA to work with and autodesk likes to screw with the format, sometimes arbitrarily, to break competing exporters.

Open formats should've been the standard for 3D long ago

[plucky hatch]

Agreed, fuckin stupid that we still use prop. formats

[wary hull]

Yeah like the model format thats being used is effectively completely irrelevant to how the asset is treated in editor and then also during runtime, this is why I like that pixar open source model

if the file is just going to be a data transfer container anyway, make it compatible with everything, overload that shit with optional standardized data

because honestly the fact that FBX has been used like the data USB for all sorts of 3D applications speaks volumes to how preemptively versatile it was

especially considering I think Blender still uses the 2013 version, that might be for legal reasons still though, I forget

[brave forge]

Agreed. Gltf is pretty good ATM, I'm having some trouble with usd materials in my tools to UE ATM

That could be blender though

[plucky hatch]

How difficult do we think implementing an import plugin for GLTF or any other format?

Is it possible in the first place?

[chilly sundial]

Given the above conversation about how good gltf is with unreal, I'd say it's possible :P

[surreal rock]

I am trying to put together a deck for some VCs. I am wondering what the average salary is for experienced game asset 3d modelers and Unreal Engine 5 programmers is. Any data you guys can provide?

[abstract badge]

I don't know myself, but if you create an account at glassdoor.com then you can see what salary ranges are reported for different job titles.

That might be a good place to do research

[surreal rock]

yeah I was looking there but I find that hard to believe, some baseline talent perhaps. I am looking for more senior talent

[abstract badge]

Then add "senior" to the job title you are searching for.

I've never looked at artist salaries on there, but the senior software engineer salaries look about right to me

[dusky fable]

Completely depends on the area. As well as studio. For example, indie studios tend to pay less than big ones. However popular studios, like Blizzard tend to pay on the lower end. Glassdoor is probably going to be your best bet, but I find them to not be as current as you might need.

If you are looking for rates in the US, every company in certain states like Washington and California has to put ranges for job postings.

[plucky hatch]

Hey again y’all! I changed my site a bit, wanted to ask what you thought of it, if it was better or not, what could still be improved etc.

It’s split into 2 now

https://www.ariksalehi.com/

https://www.ariksalehi.com/software

[chilly sundial]

It doesn't appear to be very mobile friendly

[woeful iron]

not commenting on anything else, but lol at ||[e-mail]||

[plucky hatch]

Yeah i should reaaaally fix that

[plucky hatch]

LOL yeah i’ve had that for a decade, old xbox autogenerated username. My name happens to be taken on gmail’s domain names and there is no way in hell i am paying for google business

[woeful iron]

there's more than one email provider

or use a . or - or whatever

[plucky hatch]

True i’ve heard good things about protonmail…

Site looks good otherwise though yeah?

[woeful iron]

still missing any showcase of programming skill tbh

especially if you wanna be a game programmer

[plucky hatch]

Yeah, I kinda don't know what to put there, like, my github is that, what the heck should I put for images lol

That's why it's funny, i have quite a lot of environment art showcase images, not much programming stuff

[woeful iron]

if you wanna do make game programming, make a game?

or short tech demo?

I'll dm you my portfolio of when I applied for jobs if you want

[plucky hatch]

Oh I am, making a game, It's just mostly all environment atm, eventually it will have quite a lot of programming, but i'm building the environment first, which is why I have a lot of images. A tech demo is a good idea though!

Sure!

[tardy schooner]

Yes, make a vertical slice of the game instead of working with lots of environment. It could be a very tiny area with the PoC right there.

[plucky hatch]

That's what I was thinking to, I have a lot of rough pieces, pick a nice spot and walk around for a bit and make a short demo, should be good 😂

[winged dragon]

where can I find any short-term/freelance tasks/work? I've checked here already

[ivory echo]

Maybe on Google

[dusky fable]

You really don't need that much exposition, especially talking about the unity pricing drama. Tell us what you actually worked on and how you did it. Not whatever this is.

It's really weird to show screenshots of code. Show videos of things working and a bullet point list of interesting problems that you solved.

[dusky fable]

LinkedIn, Work With Indies, Glassdoor. Fiverr and Upwork might have work, but it won't be anything professional. Most studios get contractors from external studios instead of hiring them directly. So you can also look for outsourcing studios.

[ivory echo]

I mean at this point, who doesn’t

Neither did I, I hate things that force you to register just to read a page

[chilly sundial]

I always just used a public account for those.

I forget what the website was but it basically has websites and login details for those sites that require registration

Only ever used it to scout salaries and stuff tho

That's it

[ivory echo]

Not entirely sure it’s umm…you know… legal

[finite knoll]

I wish the various plugins and userscripts that get around the not logged in nagscreens on glassdoor were up to date

but they have the monopoly on this, and of course they'll abuse it

the salary data even dissuaded me from applying to certain studios. I even found out how dogshit the pay is at Sony first parties in Europe

[main sonnet]

I am looking for a Free Lancer to make some clothing we need for a Sim we are making. I dont see a Job Board.

[finite knoll]

#instructions

[woeful iron]

this sounds like scam material

even if it is not, this is the wrong place to post it

[chilly sundial]

especially posting it in multiple channels

textbook scam

[finite knoll]

For some reason I'm having trouble parsing what the actual proposition is, or that's just me being stupid

[woeful iron]

make tons of money of course

[chilly sundial]

me neither. All I got was that this individual handles research, creation , development and deployment, for ???
Users pay $100 a month for ???
and some how each of us all manage to keep that money from ???

[woeful iron]

and he only takes small percentage

[finite knoll]

The instagram with a grand total of 3 posts and 600 followers. great reach

[chilly sundial]

definitely can get 200000 users that way

[woeful iron]

maybe you pay 150 euros a month to be part of the cool club, and of that he claims 100 euros of users

[chilly sundial]

ooh an mlm, i like it.
Pay $150 a month, to get $15 a month

[bleak arch]

Hey guys, Im Josiah Alexander, and I'm new to chat! I am running a start up company that is going to require some senior roles with UNR 5 experience. Does anyone know someone that can help. We pay really well.

?*

I'm not recruiting. I'm trying to get some advice. I'm in the beginning of my company wanting to create an amazing game. I need help.

[tight compass]

defo recruitment

[plucky hatch]

What is the advice you are looking for?

Don't ask to ask, what's the question?

[bleak arch]

Where do I start, and is there anyone that is willing to help me with my endeavors?