career-chat

[round radish]

Hehe

It's definitely a good opportunity!

Might have been better to say something like, "Ooh, Lego are hiring." instead of posting a full advert. 🙂

[plucky hatch]

Ahh well lessons learnt 😬

[deep mural]

I'm 18 in August, is it realistic I can get a decent paying job at 18 or 19 for ue5? I know blueprints and cpp, I mainly just need to learn the ue5 framework in cpp while also ironing out any mistakes I sometimes make. Atleast this is what I think I should do. But what should I do?

[pure kettle]

Look out for internship

[deep mural]

Wdym

[pure kettle]

Work as intern on studios, considering you're fresh graduate on that age.

[deep mural]

I'm assuming as an intern I would never be solo dev right?

(Not related to my last question)

[pure kettle]

Well, you can work on your own project in your spare time (or if there's a chance, try pitching it to studio you're working with)

But in the job, you'll be working with the team on whatever project you're assigned to.

[deep mural]

Ic, thanks guys

[wary idol]

@fiery marlin check our job boards, #instructions
Also #rules

[compact ivy]

So. I'm thinking about pivoting from gamedev to VR, not exclusively for gaming, but just to expand my skillset and try something different.

How is the VR market job wise using unreal? I know unity is the other major engine but I'll be honest and say unity has... not been a very great experience for me.

[fiery marlin]

ohh sorry

[plucky hatch]

Very good in the Enterprise sector, plenty of jobs in US and Europe at least, pay is good 👍

Automotive, Architecture and Engineering are booming right now in UE5

[tender ore]

Hi, I'm looking for some advice. Hope this the right channel to ask.
I'm a Technical Artist living in Ireland. Was asked by a previous employer to do a short-term contract (1-2 weeks). Haven't done any contract work before and I'm wonder what sort of rate I should be charging. Is it better to do flat fee for the required work or charge an hourly rate?

[tender ore]

Thanks for the advice @charred sentinel. Since I had discussed getting an MVP first then working on other features after and also given time constraints, it might be better to go with an hourly rate.

[lucid dagger]

Hey, a bit off but how is the gamedev scene in Ireland? We are thinking about to moving there and I am curious about the local possibilities.

[wintry forum]

Hey guys

I'm about to start creating new projects that are going to be my Unreal Engine portfolio projects in the future

Since Version Control .gitignore should include most of the big files, that means the entire Game is not being uploaded to GitHub or Perforce, right?

So how would the Game be downloadable for the employer to test?

What do employers look for in a Junior Programmer's GitHub profile? Do they want downloadable Games?

[pure kettle]

Build and package the game as an executable file, without the editor.

If you're going to use a github repo, you can use the Releases section to upload prebuilt binaries of your game.

[wintry forum]

Ahhh I see, so only that matters?

[pure kettle]

Depends on the recruiter, some would ask for a playable game, some would ask for project files. You can do both for good measure.

[wintry forum]

Yes, I think I need not worry about it now because I can upload them later

[tender ore]

3 studios would be Black Shamrock, Romero Games and DIGIT Game Studios. There are several colleges that have game dev course and a good indie dev scene.

[pastel estuary]

@earnest pecan and this has to do with career chat... how? :)

[earnest pecan]

this server is where i met him and the work kinda had to do with unreal?

tell me if it doesn't fit lmao, just needed a place to vent

i tend to do that a lot, apologies

[woeful iron]

#lounge would be a better fit

[earnest pecan]

alright, thanks!

[lilac walrus]

It's tiny and not well established. There's a couple of developers in Dublin, one in Galway, and a couple of support outsourcers for things like like QA and localisation. The bigger problem is that cost of living is currently prohibitive due to an extreme rent crisis, and I would not recommend moving there for that reason

[lucid dagger]

Yeah, I read about the rent issues. But that is kind of a global problem sadly.

[rich wadi]

I dont know where to ask so asking here,
How do I post a job?, Command is not working

?/

[round radish]

You should probably contact a mod or post on the server feedback forum

<@&213101288538374145> ?!

[wary idol]

You should see this after you start typing, from there select one

[north salmon]

where we should type this

[pure kettle]

Right in the message box.

[north salmon]

i mean which channel

[pure kettle]

Anywhere

[north salmon]

[warped wedge]

Hi everyone I want to be a professional Game developer. How many years of practicing unity and unreal engine do you think it would take for me to get a job

pls @ me

[plucky hatch]

how many do u have

[rotund nymph]

I think it really depends on a lot of factors, from your speed at learning, luck, connections...

I got my first gamedev job recently, after 2 webdev jobs. It took me ~3 years since I wrote my first line of code, I'm mainly a self-learning person.

Maybe in other areas/countries is easier or more difficult, depending on the industry state and the competition.

I'll also say that despite working as a webdev, I also did a personal gamedev project so I had something to show

[spring lark]

how to master gamedev

cause

im almost 20

i have basically gamedev skills

learning UE5 rn

and im starting thinking bout gamedev proffesion

for me?

are u working as gamedev?

[pure kettle]

Do the thing. Do the thing. Do the thing.

Just like any other skill, really.
There are fast learners, but almost all of them never get good at it over night.

[spring lark]

well, i was doing endless runner game during vacations but abandoned it

rn i started technical uni

and theres huge gamedev club for studets

so i joined and started learning UE5 again

and i enjoy it

theres 3rd week of developing my own "game" rn

starting 3rd week

its so tiring and so satisfying at the same time

[pure kettle]

Cool, there's a chance for you to go for fresh graduate internship (depends on where you live), so take your time practicing and doing the thing.
Don't be like me who just started doing UE4 after I graduated, and now I'm 7 years off from "fresh graduate" (and I wasn't even attending uni)

[spring lark]

Poland

what if...

cdpr...

but i didnt even finished witcher 3 xd

[pure kettle]

Go for it, they're sporting UE5 for their games now.

[spring lark]

yeah i learn UE5 not unity

cause ue5 is useful

maybe unity is better for introduction but im already introducted into basics of programing and gamedev so

[pure kettle]

They have since abandoning their RED engine.

[spring lark]

yeah i know

but knowing unreal is huga advantage afaik

cause they dont teach u how to use UE u must do it urself

also spaghetii>>>

[pure kettle]

You have the chance, you lived in the place where there are game dev studios using Unreal (and bigger one at that). Take advantage of it while you're fortunate to have it.

I'm not as fortunate as you are, so yeah, make use of it.

[spring lark]

i will

i love making comics

but not for money

i need stem stuff

but i dont want to be IT worker

so gamedev is ideal for me as work

cant waste it

[spring lark]

but r u working as gamedev rn?

[pure kettle]

Not yet, maybe next year if I got to work on a mobile game company just to fund my project. It's tough in a developing country.

But as of now, no.

[spring lark]

where r u from?

[pure kettle]

The upside down version of Polish flag, certainly not Monaco.

[spring lark]

ah, indonesia

well, in Poland gamedev inst so developed

(but we have cdpr at least)

but if in indonesia theres not gamedev enviroment

u can start it

[pure kettle]

Well, there is, but barely there. Most accessible ones are those developing mobile games, one is currently playing with metaverse crap. Even then it's not much.
I'd love to at least push the bar further like CDPR, but well, I can't just yet, since I still rely on my personal savings to get my project going

Anyway, enough sob story venting from me.

[spring lark]

well i kinda have solution

find another gamedevs

or artists

or it workers

from indonesia

and do something

[pure kettle]

And work for no payment/volunteer? Yeah, that'll be tough luck in here.

[spring lark]

befriend em

[potent frost]

At what point should I make a Kickstarter or seek funding for my indie game?

[chilly sundial]

When you have a proof of concept and something that looks good imo. People are only going to invest if they like what they see. If it's a greybox level where you only have the absolute basics, and a bunch of promises, it's not going to be impressive and people likely won't invest.

If you have the start of something though, art style ironed out, concepts, maybe even the start of your environment, and some mechanics alongside it, people would more readily invest in it, as they can see roughly what the game will become.

[pastel estuary]

Once you have done a lot of marketing for it and have a big following already.
If nobody heard of it, nobody will find the kickstarter.

[elder shadow]

Hey is there any game developers in this chat?

[pastel estuary]

plenty

[plucky hatch]

Hey

[pastel estuary]

i'll always remember the friends I made along the way

[lilac walrus]

I'm guessing they're here to spam DM people

[pastel estuary]

looking at their blockchain website. would not be surprised.

[deep mural]

Me?

I mean I have a plan but things don't usually go my way

I'm faithful though ofc

What'd they say

[pastel estuary]

that person's website still updates near-daily

[deep mural]

Now I'm curious

[pastel estuary]

oh nm, it got taken down XD

[outer crystal]

Unreal community has some of the most interesting folks

That's not entirely a compliment though 🤷

[round radish]

Which guy?

Never heard of them.

Probably for the best.

I mean, sure, why not have hot, sexy female investors?

But like, what?

This guy was clearly about 12.

[plucky hatch]

Hey I need a job something regarding unreal

Blender

[plucky hatch]

Thanks

[steady pewter]

#pdf-manuals

[deep mural]

Hmm

[foggy oxide]

If between taking course in ue5 or other like 3D modelling, houdini (to support my indie dev game) I can only choose one, which one you guys suggest to me? Let's say I'm not new in blueprint or c++ but I can't pay artist for my new game hehehe... which one is better for my career portfolio?

[pure kettle]

Depends on your desired specialty
Animation would be Maya/Blender
VFX/modelling would be Houdini

[foggy oxide]

hmm for game career I can't take it all can I? I wonder how indie developer make their own game, which one is more important. Animation or vfx/modelling?

[steady yoke]

Hey, I am a student and I was thinking for applying for a game dev (programming) internship. The thing is, that there are multiple posts that I'm interested in. Can I apply to all those interested positions in the same company? Or is it a bad idea and I should just apply for the one I want the most.

Would love your advices on this. Thank you

[pure kettle]

All I can say is, whatever you want to specialize it. Indie developers often get people on board to make assets that's out of the devs's capabilities.

I personally make do with what's accessible, being Blender.

[pure kettle]

I don't see how applying to all positions you're interested in is bad per se.

They'll work out what's the most fitting for you.

[foggy oxide]

noted. Thank you, well I'm looking at cgforge, rebelway and cgspectrum (even if it's costly lol) right now and thinking on picking some course when I have course budget hehe. And imo, doing something other than programming will relieve my stress a lil bit.

[steady yoke]

I see. Thanks.
You see I don't know anyone who is in/knows about this field. So, I just wanted to confirm.
Thank you 😊

[pure kettle]

Well, personally I'm at a low budget, so I only looked for free stuff and roll with it. But if you think it's worth taking then go ahead.

[modern relic]

so i guess this isnt strictly related to career stuff, maybe more #lounge but i think its a problem people suffer with soo.. 🤷. basically im wondering how you guys deal with reading text. not code, but text books, pdfs, ebooks, etc. i dont have a ton of hard copy books at all, let alone related to any programming or game dev but iv been backlogging tons of technical pdfs over the years. they arent too big, they range from like 100 pages to over 1000 but even the 100 page ones i struggle with. i dont have any reading difficulties but reading large blocks of text is difficult for me to actually follow along with and concentrate and i also have this issue where i can read and understand it, but i dont retain any of the information. i know theres no "cure" for this and it varies person to person but i was curious if anyone has suggestions/advice for how to tackle this so i can finally get through my back log and make my brain fat

[pure kettle]

Honestly, so am I, having some amount of ADD.

[chilly sundial]

One thing that always helped me for giant walls of text was to analyze them for their important bits, and extract them and rewrite them in a format I am more comfortable revisiting.

If you like audio content you could also see about getting someone to record themselves reading it. I've heard that can be quite good for notes

It's also important to not force yourself to slog through it too much at once, that will just burn you out

It's how I get through my maths module in uni. I have this 200 page book of really really dry maths for rendering, so I take the important bits I need to remember and reformat them into a substance I can read easily

[pure kettle]

In my case, I usually just read it per chapter and not going back at the same book until indefinite amount of time. Most white papers are as long as a chapter in a book, so it's less of a problem for me, but I rarely go through them in one sitting

Maybe it's because it's not as entertaining as novels.

Most of the books I read on middle school were novels lol

[modern relic]

I've been told that I should re/write stuff by hand as doing it on my phone/pc doesn't work as good. Not sure if I believe that but I guess that comes from wrote learning? I've also been told that reading pdfs/ebooks/etc is less good than a physical book. Not sure if I believe that either since I've learnt and retained stuff I've read online

[pure kettle]

I think the problem stems from the fact that monitors/phone screens glow, and cause some eye strain when reading.

Meanwhile stuff on physical paper or e-ink doesn't glow and less straining the eyes

[terse terrace]

If you have the cash, the have huge e-readers like the max lumi by Boox - It's a game changer for this type of stuff but is pricey if you buy new

I got one used for 500 but I can open up a full textbook with zero distortion because it's it's big as a textbook page

The good news is I believe Amazon is working on building one so that will drive the prices down It's been super niche historically

[modern relic]

I don't really suffer from eye strain or irritation, even after like 12-16 hours

[terse terrace]

It runs on an Android tablet too so it's hilarious to load up something like YouTube on an e-reader

[chilly sundial]

I don't believe that as much, although personally I do mine by hand, as physically writing it, and being able to quickly add colour and diagrams also helps me remember.

Color coding is one of my major uses in notes as it really really helps me

[deep mural]

Guys you need to remember the analysis lesson in hs

Highlight everything

[terse terrace]

The book on mind maps specializes on this

[modern relic]

This is interesting. It says e-ink, so is this also like a graphics tablet or something?

[pure kettle]

e-ink is basically etch-a-sketch display
The idea is that it "prints" what to display and then it persists until something refresh it.

https://youtu.be/dhRgw0HfrYU
A video on e-ink

[modern relic]

I have a kindle like that except it actually looks like an etch-a-sketch

Epaper I think it's called

[terse terrace]

Yes but as far as I know traditionally artists will use something like a Wacom or iPad, they do have some color ink stuff coming out and out already but I don't have much experience with it

[deep mural]

How does networking work in ue5? To get a job as a developer for a ue5 mp game do I just need to have that experience? Or will my c++ knowledge be enough

[royal lintel]

you are not going to get a job as a network engineer without network engineering experience, no
you might get a junior general engineering position provided you have at least a passing familiarity with unreal networking.

[deep mural]

Not exactly what I meant:

Is it possible for someone to code the game while the other one does networking? Or is that not really possible for unreal. I am not asking to do network engineering, I am wondering if I would be able to even get a job at lets say insert mp game here

[royal lintel]

You need at a minimum a familiarity with how unreal networking works.

Unless you're doing nothing but... idk, UI implementation, you're going to be touching networked data in a multiplayer game

If you have a specialized role that isn't touching gameplay code then sure, you could get away with it (think tools engineer type stuff).

[deep mural]

alr thanks

[rotund nymph]

Technically possible, but it the way Unreal works, is that network code is tightly integrated with gameplay code.

So it would be like one person writing singleplayer logic, only for another to come later and change it into multiplayer.
In the best case scenario, it is not very efficient. What happens if the singleplayer implementation is not suitable for multiplayer? Well, then suddenly all that has to be rewritten, and then it's more than double the work

[deep mural]

Ic, alright, thanks for the input

[modern relic]

Ye this isn't specific to unreal either. Tons of games start out of multiplayer but once they have an MVP/EA release it becomes way too much work to do a multiplayer conversion. The devs from subnautica said this outright which is a shame

[rotund nymph]

Yeah indeed. It's just too big of an architectural decision to overcome

[vagrant cairn]

Hey everyone, i'm a level designer that has been working on personal projects in UE5 since graduating in the spring to build out a portfolio. After working solo for about half a year i'm really missing collaborating on a team and working on a deliverable game! That said, i'm interested in providing assistance with designing spaces for your games in order to gain experience and build a network of devs I can work with in the future.

If you would like a level designer to make levels or spaces for your games/demos/vertical slices please DM me! i'd be happy to share my portfolio with you and talk about your projects

[modern relic]

You be better off posting in #hire-a-freelancer

[round radish]

Did they remove the call a moderation action? 🙂

[modern relic]

No. Maybe you are just vision impaired

[pure kettle]

Maybe your Discord app is oudated 🤔

[round radish]

It worked before...

[modern relic]

maybe im immune to being reported 😎

[brave forge]

Odd. Yeah I'd restart discord. It's there for me on mobile

[round radish]

Didn't work"!

[deep mural]

what's the hardest (C++) job question you guys have gotten?

[pure kettle]

Fizz Buzz

At least way back before I know modulo

[deep mural]

really?

[brave forge]

I think it was some graph traversal coding task for me. It wasn't especially hard. more so made difficult by the stress and time pressures involved of a fuckin exam :/

Shitty practice

[royal lintel]

Given a list of items, swap every two with each other (so 1,2,3,4 becomes 2,1,4,3)
Now do it with the restriction that the program may crash at any time and should pick up back where it left off (assuming the work-in-progress data is saved for you and basic assignment is atomic).

[earnest birch]

Does anyone know the prerequisites to put a game version on steam? Closed alpha and such

I hope this is a career chat question

[craggy nacelle]

Are there any? You pay the 100 bucks fee and can put whatever crap you want there as far as I can tell

[earnest birch]

Heh good answer

Do they still require a non changeable company/personal business entity these day?

[pure kettle]

Considering many shovelware and low effort games on Steam, I thought not.

[pastel estuary]

@icy kettle please use the job board for these kind of things. take a look at the #instructions on how to do so.

[icy kettle]

Alright, thank you

[plucky hatch]

Hello guys

Is Wix or Adobe portfolio good to make a portfolio for 3D game environment artist ?

I feel like theres too many limitations with ArtStation

[pastel estuary]

most people reviewing your portfolio prefer artstation though, as it makes their review process faster, since they understand the layout and workings.
Having to figure out where things are on a personal website/other folio kind of thing can already give you a disadvantage.

which is mentioned in the portfolio killer or killer portfolio talks on gdc
https://www.google.com/search?q=portfolio+killer+or+killer+portfolio

[plucky hatch]

Oh nice ill check it out

[pure kettle]

Depends on where you want to apply.
For western companies, they look for ArtStation, but eastern companies don't limit to one website

[verbal bramble]

@pastel estuary sent you an email on your website let me know what you think boss!

[modern relic]

I believe that this would have real world use but I feel sorry for anyone who has to deal with it, unless the solution is actually not difficult

[royal lintel]

The solution isn't actually that hard but takes a bit to come to if you've never built something like that before. Really just requires some extra bookkeeping.

And given that the interview was coming from someone who worked on a high-availability storage driver team (which absolutely would have to deal with these situations)... the question made sense.

[modern relic]

Ye fair. I'd probably just be like "sorry I quit already" saves us both time

I'm considerate like that

[round radish]

Lol

[plucky hatch]

Game compagnies mostly

[round radish]

I think he meant geographically...

[modern relic]

I'm also going to say that for freelance work, noone gives a crap about your qualifications. Freelance is all about what you can show

For actual employment though it might matter more but that sort of depends on the people doing the hiring

[worldly peak]

Is there anywhere in here I can post my VA profile? I'm looking to get started with voice work and made a fiverr, but not totally sure where to share it 😅

[pastel estuary]

better ask some VA people.
Ive seen some on soundcloud, but thats more for just posting em, then linking em elsewhere I bet

[worldly peak]

Yeah I've got some stuff posted, just looking to share my profile here somewhere, but I'm not sure that career-chat is the right place xD

#freelance-jobs seemed more specific to unreal dev than open to other freelance roles like VA

[pure kettle]

Yeah, when it comes to VA, usually we look for one on sites like Casting Call Club or ask for quote to agencies (if you're under one)

[spice dagger]

@robust dirge Please use the Job Board for hiring.

#instructions

[robust dirge]

Sorry, I never can figure out how to use that.

[spice dagger]

Read the #instructions channel.

It is pretty straight forward.

[robust dirge]

Ok.... I will try again. Thank you

[viral stirrup]

guys!
Manny bot for posting job portolio isnt working,
what should i do, any advise, help?

[wicked wolf]

"Role requirements: • Strong level design skills - capable of defining level metrics and consistently applying them" - what would Level Metrics means in this context?

[steel creek]

It means they don't know what they're talking about and are just using a bunch of words to sound like they do.

Any "metrics" that are used should be defined by the art director.

[radiant turtle]

Yeah what even is a level metric 😆

The only thing I could justify it with is 'level design principles'

[lilac walrus]

metrics are a thing and refer to general scaling and sense of space, usually with respect to player and enemy movement capabilities

https://book.leveldesignbook.com/process/blockout/metrics

that looks like a decent enough mention of the basics

FYI, the art director is absolutely not the person who defines metrics, they're generally inherited directly from gameplay, and defined by the design team

[wicked wolf]

thanks all, yeah this makes sense

and yeah eg door width prob shouldn't be set by art director it would seem to me

[surreal turtle]

Heya! I'd love to get insights on how often people find new jobs via Reddit.

I've made this post and considering to go deeper into Reddit, then thought of dropping the question here first.

https://www.reddit.com/r/gameDevClassifieds/comments/yxyfda/paidfulltime_httpsgamecaneucareers_we_have_11/

Or is a better use of time to work via LinkedIn and/or Discord?

[quasi harbor]

good point

[round radish]

This isn't the place to dump your CV.

[quasi harbor]

im done

[chilly sundial]

yes but this still isnt the place for that

[woeful iron]

personally never heard of someone getting a job of reddit, I would be very not inclined to do so either

[woeful iron]

the place to promote jobs is in the jobs-board channels, check #instructions on how to post there

[green oyster]

I found a gig on reddit for a few months. It was an indie studio looking for artists. Also was in talks with Frictional Games on a job posting they did (think it was Amnesia Rebirth)

[surreal turtle]

Thanks, both!

[plucky hatch]

How to get job?

[surreal turtle]

What are your skills?

[shrewd geyser]

You can start by applying to one.

[steel creek]

Maybe in your world in my world for the last 20 years of Studios the art directors absolutely the person that sets the metrics

[steel creek]

I think its a simple referral to the original problem: Someone using language they don't know, to entice people who don't know that language, to apply.

In whatever product world, if you are being asked to do "metrics" and your first question is "what do they mean by metrics?" -- probably not a job for you. As pointed out, most products already have a a design team/person -- asking someone to create content -AND- provide metrics for a product they dont even know yet, seems weird.

[tender knot]

I have a question. I wrote some lores about game. But no company listen me so I decided make solo. Before a month I started work on unreal engine 5 and my goal be a environmental artist. I'm working on a project rightnow and keep learning more tools and skills. My question is I need to learn 3d app. Which you are suggesting 3dmax or blender?

[chilly sundial]

Blender. I feel max has a stronger learning curve, and costs a lot of money. Money which you wouldn't have to spend with blender. Anything you could want to make for a game environment art wise only needs blenders toolset anyway

[woeful iron]

most skills will be transferable anyway

and I don't think max is used that often anymore, might be wrong though

even modeling is done in Maya now

[chilly sundial]

Max just feels really archaic to use compared to even Maya and blender.

I suspect that's from it's origins as 3d studio

Especially solo though, and on a budget, going for the free option makes so much more sense. Even Maya LT is expensive for solos

[woeful iron]

yeah if you're just beginner, blender is definitely good choice

larger studios are starting to use it as well lately

like Ubisoft is blender boi now

[tender knot]

Thank you so much

[green oyster]

don't forget there's 3dsmax Indie (at ~300E per year) so cost is not an issue anymore

I like Blender but it's a bit lacking, like in making UVs

[deep mural]

Would a calculator be alright to put in a portfolio?

Not anything fancy, just equations, no like coding in an entire formula to add without using built in math commands

[brave forge]

here's the trick to deciding what should be in your portfolio:

What did you learn from the project? If you were asked questions about it can you talk about it for a few minutes? the complications, the problem solving, the new api you learned. What can the interviewer learn about you from that talk?

[deep mural]

Thank you, definitely talking this into mind

[brave forge]

Those talking points should be listed alongside the project in your portfolio too

[deep mural]

Ic, that's what I had to do for my auto cad class (we were graded on our portfolios) didn't exactly think doing that for this though, great idea

[modern relic]

Not really relevant but a calculator is an interesting project, depending on how well it's made. If it uses shunting yard to evaluate then you can use it outside of a calculator, for example to parse expressions for a programming language, especially since it can recognise variable names and function calls

[deep mural]

is there a website that is The Portfolio website?

[pure kettle]

ArtStation for example, I think it's the one looked after by western companies.

[woeful iron]

for artists yes

programmers not so much

[deep mural]

Would a .weebly do it? Or should I do something else

[pure kettle]

GitHub Pages might be more suitable for coders, but you do need to setup your own pages (Jekyll handles most of the page gen part)

[deep mural]

I was thinking like making a .weebly and linking the github stuff to it

Or can GitHub do both

[brave forge]

Also GitHub readme

That's somewhat popular I believe

[deep mural]

Can you explain?

[brave forge]

https://docs.github.com/en/account-and-profile/setting-up-and-managing-your-github-profile/customizing-your-profile/managing-your-profile-readme

It's a readme for your profile, similar to a readme for a repo

[deep mural]

And I would link all the links to my projects in that readme? Or do you have something else in mind to use it for

[brave forge]

Yeah your profile would be your portfolio

[deep mural]

Good idea

I might do that

[plucky hatch]

I mean it costs 360 USD per year here, I would not say cost is not an issue thats still a lot of money. If you are a 3D artists you probably have Substance painter and some other tools so you could be spending up to 1000 USD or more per year on licenses. Thats why I use Blender over autodesk myself, one less license to pay.

[true cobalt]

What is the minimum age to start taking commissions/working for people? I'm 14 and have been working in unreal for just about a year, and working in game design for nearly 7, but I recently got curious about career paths and such. I'm not planning to get a job working in game design until I have a couple more years of experience in unreal, but I am still interested in the minimum age.

[pure kettle]

Also depending on where you live, your budget can be way lower than what developed country inhabitants consider shoestring

[plucky hatch]

I mean you cant really legally work in most (western countries at least) until you are 16-17, most companies will not touch you if you are under 18, both for legal reasons and liability. Hard to put trust in someone who is basically a child for many reasons.

[pure kettle]

For more professional work, 18 or older as there can be a lot at stake, and teenagers have yet to develop the mental capabilities to work on professional pressure.

[green oyster]

Well compared to the nice figure of 2000E per year for the "full" version it's basically nothing...and I live in Eastern Europe. If that's your job it's the cost of running. My accountant is 100E per month. I would use 100% Blender but sadly clients still need the source files in Maya or 3ds and there's no other way around it

[true cobalt]

I agree, thanks. I assumed it would be 17-18 but always good to make sure. Tysm

[pure kettle]

You have at least 4 more years to develop your skills, so grind on it and have fun.

[plucky hatch]

That is unfortunate for you then, normally I only deal in file types for commercial work, fbx, usd etc so does not really matter what tool is used.

[true cobalt]

Will do! Working on a game rn, really have high hopes! Still a looong time until release though

[true cobalt]

I have a job, and most of my friends do aswell. Mostly fast food joints, nothing special but I know people that started working before they turn 13

[green oyster]

I think over 90% of my projects just needed Maya or 3ds, whether it was opening blockout files from the client or delivering exported files with their proprietary plugins

[plucky hatch]

Yeah that would just not be legal where I come from unfortunately but good you can earn some cash when you are younger.

[plucky hatch]

Luckily I have not ran into that problem so far in my career 🤞... touch wood.

[true cobalt]

Yep, nothing professional but good to have some cash in my pocket

[pure kettle]

I can only hope you and your friends are treated well on the current job.

[true cobalt]

Well, its work so give or take

[pure kettle]

I'm not (yet) a father, but ngl I already have concerns on it
Yeah, it's a work, but please take care of your well being as well.

[summer knoll]

Hi there! How do I post my informations on #hire-a-freelancer ?

[pastel estuary]

read the #instructions and it should be clear :)

[pale musk]

I'm still working on Animation and Rigging area

4 minute showreel could be enough?

[chilly sundial]

For what exactly?

[pale musk]

GEtting hired

[deep mural]

Will it be hard finding my first job? What about my second job? All I have rn is experience at McDonald's 😂. I have been keeping progress steady with unreal engines C++ framework and I expect to be more than "job material" by the time I graduate high school (class of 2024).

If it helps I live in the Midwest, United States

[plucky hatch]

Sounds like you are far too young to worry about such things, I would just focus on finishing school.

[deep mural]

Ok

[woeful iron]

But in general, getting a first job is definitely the hardest, after that you can coast more and more on experience

[rotund nymph]

Yeah, I'd say it is pretty much universal that the first job is the hardest. Having connections or internships will help a lot

After that it will get easier. Dunno about later (like 5-10 years of experience)

[green oyster]

After 10 years you'll be swarmed with linkedin job messages without doing anything 😆

[deep mural]

Lol

[deep mural]

Yeah but I've just heard of stories of people who do hundreds of applications then get 2 and both decline so

Sounds like hard might be impossible for some people

And I hear college might not be necessary but idk

Ic

[granite solar]

For those who are in engineering/programming, how long does it normally take to move from junior engineer, to mid engineer, to senior engineer? I am aware this can vary extensively between person to person, especially from company to company. Just looking for some input from other people's personal experience, it'll (possibly) help give me an idea of the time span for this stuff 🙂

[plucky hatch]

What Laura said, about 5 years to Senior is about what I see in the UK & Sweden.

[woeful iron]

same here

I was hired as medior after 2 year and a little, I'll become senior this january normally, so somewhere between 4 and 5 years

of course there can be variance

[granite solar]

I see, thank you 🙂

[muted gyro]

A lot of people don't like programming tests and think it's insulting / beneath them, especially if they have a lot of experience, but this is why I think they are valuable. You can regularly run into people with years of experience who can't do anything, and often the people who are most insulted by programming tests are those same people who struggle with the most basic stuff

(Personally I would never give a 2-week programming test I'm talking more like a 1-hour one)

I once interviewed someone who said they had done all the key shaders for Bioshock and they didn't know any HLSL or what a dot product was

[round radish]

Lol

The product made by the dot company, obviously!

[muted gyro]

I asked them to write a simple shader that did basic cel-shading - not expecting it to be perfect or compile but just be ballpark something - after 20 minutes they had like "main()" and that was it

[plucky hatch]

Hey guys, so I know this is gonna be a longshot, but does anyone know any companies in here looking for non paid internships in Montreal?

I think there are some indies companies in here but not sure how many or who

[modern relic]

I followed a tutorial to render a triangle on the screen with opengl using shaders. You got any openings?

[dire finch]

For any of you in here using C++ as part of your full time job, what do you do and what would you recommend learning on top of C++? I know that answer is going to differ for everyone and what the outcome you want is, but I’m just exploring what is out there. Or trying to at least.

[modern relic]

I only work part time, am I allowed to answer?

[dire finch]

Sure. I was more so implying using C++ beyond a hobby. Lol

[modern relic]

On top of c++, learning source control is essential. For unreal engine perforce is probably the best, otherwise probably git. Learning your build/tool chain is also important. For unreal the, this would be learning how UHT and UBT work and what they are. Also learning unreal is obviously important if you are using

Don't forget that c++ itself is just a tool. Once you learn something in c++, I'd recommend trying to reproduce it in any other languages you know. It will help broaden your knowledge and skill set

[dire finch]

Thanks for the response. The only other languages I’m “semi-fluent” in are js and typescript. Just trying to put all of the pieces of the puzzle together to figure out the best path for myself.

[modern relic]

Ye there's a bit of an ecosystem and a pretty steep learning curve. The best way I learn is by doing it. I don't really learn too much from reading or videos. This server is probably the best resource for unreal if that's the direction you are heading in

[dire finch]

I love using UE, even though I’m still barely scratching the surface. Just not sure if I could long-term make it work as a career or should be leaning towards something more generic, I guess. I’ve been in my current career over 10 years and make decent money but absolutely hate it. Ready for a new chapter.

[plucky hatch]

Tools come and go, it's safer to learn a profession or skill area that may make use of Unreal but does not rely on it 100%.

[modern relic]

Ye definitely a good point. You could learn somethibg like virtual production, archvis, or gamedev which all make use of unreal. I believe automotive is also making an entry given that epic made several free asset packs for manufacturers

[plucky hatch]

Unreal has been standard in automotive since 2018, it actually manufacturers that have been helping Epic make asset packs for normal people.

Now it has transcended beyond visualisation, Unreal is used as the system to actually run many of the in-vehicle systems. General Motors was the first, then Rivian last year then this year Volvo and Polestar.

I meant learning a profession not an area per-se, such as technical artist, environment artists, production designer, art director etc etc.

[pure kettle]

This isn't really related to #career-chat though, might want to ask it on #ue5-general

[hidden ledge]

I am sorry , i just noticed after you told me , let me take it somewhere else

[plucky hatch]

so im a beginner animator in blender and for the past few weeks im learning Unreal Engine 5. So i wanted to ask is it better to make the animation in Blender and then export it to Unreal or is it better to animate directly in Unreal?

[pure kettle]

Not related to #career-chat , ask it in #animation

[sullen canopy]

Is trying to start a career as a lighting artist too niche and difficult?

[ocean tapir]

I've noticed that the groom/hair artist is a pretty defined niche. With artists like on artstation actually having things like "groom artist" in their titles. Though the same doesn't go for costume/clothing/outfit artists. I've never seen someone call themselves a 3D costume artist.

What gives?

[pure kettle]

From what I seen, usually general 3D modeler also double duty with the clothing side of things.

[pure kettle]

Meanwhile hair strands are rather difficult to author, and hiring hair artist who dealt with real life hair styling or making cosplay wig would boost the process a bit
Of course clothing wise you can still have crossovers with those making costumes for a living

[pastel estuary]

Lighting artists arent too niche to be considered hard to find a job.
If you are able to showcase your experiences on a portfolio (and perhaps social media) I wouldnt be too worried.

[sullen canopy]

Would relights of scenes be acceptable? Considering setting up a new one does take quite a while.

[round radish]

What you could do in that case is make a comparison. Show where and why you think your lighting is better.

The ability to iterate on current work is an important skill too!

[sullen canopy]

Thanks a bunch. Time to get working

Whats the best chance do you reckon to get a foot in the door though?

[round radish]

100% if you've got any skill and you are persistent.

And by persistent I don't mean hounding the same employer, messaging them every 5m for updates/jobs 😛

[sullen canopy]

Ive just been tossing my apps to every spot I see so I hope something comes up. In the meantime I just make more scenes and learn new techniques.

[round radish]

Best you can do. You'll get interviews and feedback soon enough. Use that feedback to create better stuff and do better at interviews.

You'll land a job eventually.

Don't be scared to branch out into other areas, too, for both skillset and jobs.

You may not get exactly what you want, but job is better than no job in most cases. 🙂

[sullen canopy]

That's true yea.

[granite solar]

Dear Studio, I wrote you but you still ain't callin'
I left my cell, my pager, and my email at the bottom
I sent two applications back in autumn, you must not've got 'em
There probably was a problem with the web server or somethin'

[pure kettle]

Oh, there's no reply at all~
no reply at all~

[ocean tapir]

yet the recruiter still saw your linkedin profile

just didnt reply

[dim orchid]

is it ok to post my website in this thread in search of feedback?
or is there a better place to look for this. It is part of my applications ofc

[modern relic]

afaik here is fine, as long as people dont have to download anything (eg pdf)

[dim orchid]

Nope! It's an art station.
Just looking for as much feedback as I can get on my work ^__^

https://lairdwt.artstation.com

[plucky hatch]

Dont have four topics for your work when you only have 9 projects total!

A good portfolio only needs to be 3-5 GOOD and in depth projects

Try and stay consistent, these two project images look like high effort... and then low effort made in Microsoft word

[dim orchid]

kk, ty ty

my current work is a much more granular breakdown of the dithered triplanar material ive made with conditional texture samplers
do you think a portfolio post or blog post is better for the more dry technical breakdowns?

that's the way I was leaning

im hoping it will be informative as well, not just a show piece. so blog = cleaner presentation for that imo

yeah?

Yep. Code snippets, pictures, explainations, and an overview

id like even a noob reader to be able to at least follow along to copy it, and hopefully learn something along the way, lol

[plucky hatch]

holy .... the american consulate has a line of about 1 year to get the visa pass in my country.

but I can't think about this before having a good portfolio. What I have now is too low quality to even dream about getting a job in a studio which is willing to pay for all the required documents, reallocation, ...

[twin warren]

Are C++ jobs more likely to be "recession-proof"?

I'm graduating with a math degree in the spring...kinda worried

[brave forge]

depends on the recession. the 2000 dot com bubble, no. Now, probably somewhat. Programmers have been in VERY big demand, the big tech companies are laying off, but from what i understand, the other smaller companies that have been starved for years are still hiring, or at the very worst, a hiring freeze (but not firing)

c++ is a bit of a niche these days though. Certain industries value it more than others. So you might find yourself gravitating to HFT/banks, or embedded systems, and ofcourse games. Obviously webdev is mostly js, and a lot of business systems are java/c#, less likely to find c++ jobs in those areas

[woeful iron]

performance critical things are still often c++, e.g. medical things, not necessarily all embedded, or application that need to work with huge amounts of date and a lot fo calculations on it, e.g. supply chain planning. Also in general a lot of companiers still use c++ because they always have. I don't think we will run out of c++ jobs any time soom.

[keen swan]

C++ is too embedded into today’s ecosystem. It’ll never go away. Newer projects might not use it (really depends on what is being done), but a lot of companies are looking at more memory safe languages. Typically hardware is adequate enough to handle any GC language. If it is performance critical or has extreme computation, then languages like C/C++/Rust will be used. NSA is pushing for more Rust to be used in those cases. 70% of all CVE’s are memory related.

[plucky hatch]

does anyone know how to change the titles to other languages?

on Artstation

[chilly sundial]

use google's built in translation

artstation appears to only support english or french

posted in reverse order but it applies still

[stoic owl]

Hi I think I'm at a point that I want to get a job in gamedev but idk how to do this

Cuz I have kind of a unique problem and it's that I live in Iran

And I'm sure that is going to limit my options even though I think I have a good resume and know a lot about game Dev and have worked with multiple engines and other programs related to gamedev

Any ideas ? If it's possible for me cuz I looked in my country for related jobs but there's not an industry for game development in here

And I do want to travel to another country and maybe get a job and start there but the problem is everyone has to serve the military for 2 years + I'm going to collage so traveling rn isn't an option

And I was planning on maybe doing marketplace assets or bps as a job but again the sanctions can't really use a payment method

Is there any hope for me?

[green oyster]

Only hope is to somehow leave the country

[stoic owl]

Yeah and that's go and do service for 2 years or pay a huge sum of money

For now I might try and finish my degree and go out and put a lease and after a bit pay it

Cuz I have worked with cryengine unreal and unity + I have done some demos In all of them and know blender Photoshop (almost all Adobe products) and currently studying software engineering

I think it's decent but idk if they even accept me as an intern to see if they like me maybe move there for work

[plucky hatch]

/remove 1046332177941545051

[pure kettle]

Well, if you had little to no room to make impact on gamedev industry in your region, there's not much else you can do but to get the hell out of there.

Especially with income from outside economy is under heavy sanction

I wish I could help you more, but I can't

And yeah, good luck on the conscription service

[stoic owl]

The sad part is that I can't even publish any games from here I contacted steam epic and Xbox and all denied my games

And here they only make mobile games and the pc games look worse than the igi or first cod which I think is more scam

[pure kettle]

Very sorry to know that 😦

[shut token]

#hardware

[crude shard]

you have to get a publisher which resides outside US

[pure kettle]

If you mean outside Iran, that'd be kinda useless, as he's sanctioned from int'l payments

[crude shard]

he can use crypto transactions (its not illegal either the only reason he cannot use international transactions is because iranian banks are sanctioned but iranian residents are not under sanction by no other countries expect US )

[brave forge]

welllllll that's not entirely true and a bit of an oversimplification. Sanctions are tricky subjects. If you deal with the US or US technology and then deal with a sanctioned country you could be accused of evading sanctions.

[stoic owl]

🥹

I had getting a publisher in mind maybe I'll make a deal and then move to another country and apply for citizen ship and get a credit card to prevent all that

But rn I'm stuck bad

[stoic owl]

But I think he ment the publisher pay me in crypto but they sell the game normally but still Boris is right I don't think they would accept still no company would want a massive lawsuit against it

[round radish]

Costs significantly more when you cross post for no particular reason.

[stoic owl]

Offff

Calm down

[plucky hatch]

There is very little patience for crypto here

[stoic owl]

yeah i understand but hes message was related to another person cross posting about some stuff

[mellow hearth]

Hi, I am 41 years old. I'm a SAP ABAP consultant (Developer) but my true passion was always to create and design game. Since I was 6 year old playing in my Dataset Commodore 64 and my Atari 2600.

As a hobby in my spare time with a friend of mine, created a couple of mobile games a decade ago, we wanted to use UE but back then a simple 3d game for mobile using UE was overkill, so we ended up using Unity. We also created a couple of games and won some prizes using the Core Games Platform (powered by Unreal Engine). But because the monetization system they have is really bad, a year ago we decided to start using UE and create our own game. So I have been using UE5 BP since then and learning more about the engine itself.

I'm in a place of my life where I decided to chase my dream and start working remotely in the game industry using UE (part-time or fulltime). I'm from Argentine (UTC-3), I have a Bachelor Of Science In Computer Engineering degree and even though I have some experience mainly as Game Designer and like most indie developers, also a bit of UI Design, Level Design, etc... a Jack-of-all-trades. I don't have any real "working" experience in a game studio.

What I want to know is your opinions or advices on how to get a job in a game studio. I though perhaps getting some certification like this one https://www.cgspectrum.com/courses/game-design but some people has told me that is a waste of money, what do you think ? Any feedback is welcome.

Btw, I created an online Resume and porfolio https://k-mus.github.io/ if someone knows about a job oportunity, just send me a DM.

[ashen lynx]

You are a bit ancient by these days standards for entry but nothing impossible. The main issue you will have is lower paycheck when you get in. If you are fine with that, and or have other source of income, that is non issue. Your online resumed is flawed in the sense that it is unclear what position you are aiming for.

There are few specific roles here and there where certification will matter, but nothing of that involves actual hands on development and is connected to support and infrastructural roles.

[steady pewter]

41 years old - ancient
rip 💀

[deep mural]

ancient people

yikes

time for my place in the sun

[shrewd geyser]

Don't listen to these kids. 41 is not too old at all. The experience that you bring to the table is incredible.

[plucky hatch]

Ive had an intern earlier this year who was in his early 40's and retrained for Unreal, and maybe 2-3 more over the past 3 years so it's not uncommon since Covid for people to be changing career later👍 .

I agree with what @shrewd geyser says, often what more mature workers lack in experience they make up for in maturity, level headness and life experience. A good hiring manager will be taking that into account.

It also shows a lot of determination and fearlessness to change career when you are older since the stakes are much higher, the majority of people dream of such things but only a small minority will actually pull the trigger and do it.

[ashen lynx]

Disregarding all the beautiful motivational words of support, reality is that at 41 you will be two decades behind and there is nothing that can ever bridge it. On one side, you are given impression that it is fine and information about good hiring managers, on the the other hand, you have those, who proudly claim to take seconds to skim through the application. At times, those are the same persons. Motivational speaches are easy to give when they are inconsequential and require no action from the one giving it.A bit more dufficult to lay our harsher reality. And fact is two decade woth of gap, nothing will bridge. Demand vs avaliability will always leave a spot for such pivotal occupation changes, but is it worth for the one taking, that is where the question lies. Before taking leap of faith based on 3 discord opinions, consider other options. One of which will be keeping current occupation and developping a dream game of yours. Maybe it will proc and you will be proud studio establisher? If it does not, you will at least not be in worse situation than you currently are. If you choose to chase a dream, it might not be what you envisioned it to be.

[woeful iron]

well at 41, you could still start in a junior position, no knowledge gap at that point

of course, will be a significant paycut as already mentioned

[ashen lynx]

Of course, you can start. Some people do. Most who do, with positive result. But by the time you retire, you will have 20 years less to reach whatever you can reach.

[jovial slate]

Hey, I got into a problem. Im under 18 so I cant publish my game in google play store. But the game is almost developed and I worked really hard for.
Can someone publish my mobile game?

[ashen lynx]

Your legal guardian( parent) can. Depends on your laws.

[jovial slate]

Lol my parents are supporting me but how can I publish it?

Giving detail of my parents?

[plucky hatch]

But they are already a developer, they are just changing industry but not starting from scratch. Aside form taking a paycut and starting at the bottom of the ladder I dont see any downside.

I am only 12 years into my career, I moved to 3D (from 2D) 6 years ago, I am now a creative lead in a 100+ person studio working with Epic. I don't think it matters as much as you think, prior knowledge counts for a lot but the fact people have almost a 10 year head start on me didn't count for anything in the end.

You are right to say it will be hard.

Attrition is still very high in these things if you dont really go 200% in.

[ashen lynx]

There was never a downside.I never said that. I agroed people by stating that 41 is a bit ancient today. Looking at distribution of average age of a junior hire, it is indeed so.

[plucky hatch]

Ahh yes indeed it will be tough but hopefully they can weather it out, it also helps to be in a hub city. It could be harder in South America.

[ashen lynx]

Risk is there. If you succeed and it makes you happier, what else is needed?

I dont want people to have have false impressions that it will go as smooth at 41 as it would at 20. Flipping occupation thrice, quite late, I think I have the right to highlight the risks to those willing to undertake them.

[pastel estuary]

two more years and im ancient too XD

[ashen lynx]

Oldies 🫠

[pastel estuary]

shakes fist back in our day we unwrapped manually

[plucky hatch]

Oh yes I am in-agreement with you indeed 👍

[tawdry phoenix]

I want to connect with UE5 people in Berlin.

[oblique ice]

those were the days 🙂

[pastel estuary]

/me hugs @oblique ice

[mellow hearth]

Thanks for your all your input, don't worry I'm not delusional. I from Argentine, over here the economy it's really bad, I couldn't afford starting as a Junior over here but working remotely to US as a Junior it wouldn't not be such a big difference salary wise, also I already have my own house without any debt to pay. So I could easily live with a Jr salary, that is why I said I'm in a point in my life were I could afford doing the change.

Being a developer using BP it's really easy, I just need to fill the gap about the engine itself... regarding that course in CGSpectrum do anyone have any input about if it's any good or not...all the reviews I could find are more about the art careers and not Game Designer.

[weary crystal]

Hey so Ive been doing a lot of general work in unreal and game dev, but my specialty is in programming. I got an interview for a position focused on animation programming in IK and retargeting, and I've done both of those things before, but not on a studio level. Does anyone have any tips for projects or demos to bang out to showcase my abilities? I was thinking of making a quadraped IK rig in unreal, and one of my fears is relying too much on the built in IK tools in unreal in my demo.

[minor grove]

heyyy I am a beginner loking to learn about unreal engine, mainly understanding its applications in particular for VR/AR stuff (in particular in their application for Web 3.0). I came in this group hoping to receive some suggestions about what you believe the best way for me to approach this journey would be, possibly acquiring a certificate of competence from some accredited organization, if you have any suggestions I would really appreciate it!

I am a post-graduate and already dealt with programmes such as after effects and ableton so Im a fast learner

[pure kettle]

Web3.0 crap is mainly scrappy startups, I doubt you're going to need certifications

[minor grove]

Recently many popular corporate realities started to hire for Web 3.0, NFT campaign managers and stuff

for example brands in the luxury, but also digital consultancy firms

and applying to some, some roles required knowledge of Unreal engine

[woeful iron]

what is it that you want though

make art for VR?

programming?

design?

make a complete application?

[pure kettle]

inb4 leading to NFT salesman

[minor grove]

ok ideal role? Manager for a VR/AR reality and being able to communicate well with developers and programmers, to potentially start my own Web 3.0 service

what is inb4?

[woeful iron]

you could perfectly be a manager without knowing unreal as well though tbh

it's preferrable you do, but not necessary

if you're just starting out manager is not a realistic goal though

think of how you want to get there

[minor grove]

I just would like to know more what I am talking baout and understand what a programmer has to face, to actually not ust tell some people what I would want them to do, but be part of the development and I feel that a technical understanding of where are the boundaries of what is feasible and what is not lie

[woeful iron]

understanding programmers can go through 2 ways, again depending on what you want. One is to work somewhere close to programmers and learn through "osmosis", but of course you will already need a relevant job for that. The other is to learn at least the basics of programming yourself

[minor grove]

I've already done 3 different managing working experiences understand what it means to be one, and Im very creative and love digital tech and stuff, so would want to learn how Unreal Engine works, its hard to convince some programmers to start smtg when ur not even communicating well, or especially when u start without having done nothing. when u pitch an idea to friends its so much more convincing when you present the ideas as: "I've already done this and that (and show a bunch of progress u already made) and have this idea. Do you want to help me in its realization?" Otherwise you just throw ideas and nthen no one actually starts them waiting for the next person to do smtg 😛

Idk if I need more programming or leanring how to use Unreal Engine more for developing my ideas in a Web 3.0 related space

[woeful iron]

all you need for web 3.0 is to be proficient at scamming

easy win

[minor grove]

lol thats not what im going for

I fight for an open, decentralized and free Web

I have an idea but its hard for me to develop it with my knowledge rn

[chilly sundial]

Pretty much.
Be a good con artist, convince people that a very unstable market is a good safe investment, then you rug it. Ez win

[minor grove]

I need to figure what obstacles Id have to surpass to make it

Nah Im not for a crypto scam, Im looking to revolutionize the digital reality we live in

[pure kettle]

I mean, Web3/NFT stuff by this point is pretty much MLM

[minor grove]

its not about NFT stuff

[chilly sundial]

Nothin web 3 can do that couldn't be done before really. It's just a buzzword

[pure kettle]

If it's too good to be true, it most likely is

[woeful iron]

want sum free nitro with that?

[minor grove]

its about a decentralized Web and a new UI to navigate it

[chilly sundial]

Yet to see anything in web 3 that isn't either a massive scam or entirely possible before

[woeful iron]

but idk, can't give you advice on getting to know unreal without becoming a programmer, since I'm a programmer myself, idk other ways

[minor grove]

Ofc, the web is what it will be but also what its becoming everyday

[pure kettle]

Not to get off the rail much, but by this alone I think you're pretty much ready to go to run your own Web3 speculative market by this point. Don't see how you need more certifications.

[minor grove]

its an idea for a new web, one that might be a decentralized web based on blockchain, the other being an immersive web (what is referred to poetically as the metaverse), or a combination of both

aghhh my idea is not speculative

[chilly sundial]

Haven't enough companies proven by now the metaverse isn't a great idea?

[pure kettle]

Ignoring the fact that I have yet to see proper ELI5 explanation of Web3 ever since the initial hype, but I digress.

[woeful iron]

what is the advantage of decentralized web though

except "I hate corporations" 😠

[chilly sundial]

Not only that but web3 is a losing battle.

Most of your potential userbase wants nothing to do with it

[pure kettle]

If there's no one that can explain web3 like I'm 5 years old, then it worth as much as a turbo encabulator.

[chilly sundial]

I'd rather have a Ferrari branded racing snail

Web3 gets kind of exhausting tbh.
Every new company comes around and claims a revolution and no scam, and then boom! Scam!

[pure kettle]

Also reminds me of few old friends who left honest work for MLM firms, I don't know where they went nowadays

[chilly sundial]

Damn that's actually kinda sad. Fell for a con and lost their stability. Hope they figured it out and got back somewhere that's worth a damn

[gleaming gorge]

blcokchain.com have being for long time and its web3 from start

web3 is getting better

https://www.veriff.com/ https://app.anima.io

the verification comes who you are

web3 is just punch of things

[minor grove]

I studied what is involved with the Web from a social point of view. We live in a hyper reality where time and space are erased (while in 500 BC you had to wait for a bird to arrive from point A to point B to receive a written message from the other part of the Empire, now you can write to someon instantly)... And this whole new system of communication which is enabled by the digital world with services such as social platforms we are changing the ways in which we interact in a programmable digital space which is controlled by a few dominant voices (Facebook, Google, Twitch, and other popular platforms we use). When the power is distributed to the few, this comes with great risks as dynamics of power throughout our history teach us.

Examples: When you researched "black woman" in Google's search engine, the search would provide you with mainly images of black woman portrayed negatively, of lower class, with many references to sexual stuff, while when you searched for white woman you would get mainly rich and high class women, also in work environments. These are all social biases that if we are exposed to, determine a reality which affects our perception of the world when we are not aware of this. Im not saying that by using Google thn you will believe that afro america women are worse or smtg like that but that it is clear that in the long run, relying on these tools has some sort of effect on how we perceive the world of the relative social group. But the debate is wider... In general as the platforms we used are controlled by above middle class white men, and they hav the responsibility to make the decisions, some groups are always going to be misrepresented to some degree and they mainly serve their commercial interests. But as this digital reliaty imapcts the way we see the world, and so the way society develops, we cannot simply rely on hoping Facebook and other platforms and services will do a good job in defining the digital reality we will live in more and mor as we are developing AR and VR technologies, but we must distribute the power, and blockchain applications are seeking ways of doing that by removing the trust in third parties (mediators that control and determine our experience and perception of reality on their services)

[woeful iron]

yes, decentralized web where everyone can simply host and put what they want will definitely be less racist

[gleaming gorge]

remmeber torrents

[chilly sundial]

Damn didn't know web3 solves racism.

Plus you gotta convince people to use this.

How are you going to convince the massive companies to "use this so you get less power plzthx"

If I own a business l, damn right I want control over it lol

[gleaming gorge]

well people when they are not tolerant of things use things

slush had great talk for Moonpay founder how different crypto community is in USA and europe

[chilly sundial]

Also your example is purely wrong.

I googled black women and it literally all the top results are powerful black people and how there needs to be more. It couldn't be further from what you said.

[gleaming gorge]

as americans seems this fast to earn lots of money where in europe its slow process one

[woeful iron]

in web3.0 if I want to fix a typo on my website, does it have to be approved on the blockchain, wasting tons of energy or PoS time?

[woeful iron]

the difference is USA regulations are way laxer, way easier to scam people

[minor grove]

Now Google has fixed that misrepresentation of black woman negatively... But it had it because it was initially trained with images of white women mainly and not enough for afro-american women. But ultimatley you could also put it this way: would you rather have a closed proprietary organization with commercial purposes control our access to information and online experiencing of the world or accept reality for how it is and deal with it distributing power? I believe that if black women would actually be misrepresented more if the Web was decentralized then I think a distributed voting system could improve it, where people that act as nodes in the network can vote on the development of the blockchain system (a distributed voting system)

[chilly sundial]

Nah you don't even get to do that. The community at large has to vote on the fix, so you don't have too much control over the little people

[woeful iron]

if you distribute it it's just gonna become shit over time again

[gleaming gorge]

easier to scam people with anything on usa

[woeful iron]

bigger stakeholders of the blockchain will just take control

[minor grove]

It would be a new internet, not smtg to sell to to organizations

[woeful iron]

new internet without any corporations

sounds useful

so basically a few blogs

[minor grove]

yeah but technologically if we assume any degree of development we'll get there eventually

[chilly sundial]

Literally Blockchain wordpress

[woeful iron]

that's such a stupid idea though

[gleaming gorge]

if your stakeholders are people the big money ones dont own the blockchain at all

[woeful iron]

smaller websites will never get a chance

[chilly sundial]

But you won't though. The big players won't switch, and since they won't, the little people won't either

[woeful iron]

yes, billionaires are not people

[minor grove]

what if the corporations won't hav a choice anymore? Ofc ppl can creat websites, but platforms that mediate our interaction are not developed by a few white guys on their 25 of upper middle class but by everyone node

[chilly sundial]

Having everyone develop a social media is a terrible idea

[minor grove]

ok I appreciate ur comment ❤️

[woeful iron]

how are you going to convince google to put shit on your crappy blockchain

if they can just keep what they are doing right now

and have control

[gleaming gorge]

the future of social platform where no one billiniare where one can get revenue only and your time is earning for the company who own it but instead your time on the platform you earn from your time

[chilly sundial]

This idea is basically "Get a bunch of people who have no idea how the internet works to vote on how the internet works"

[minor grove]

bruh one step at a time, if I alreadfy had the answer I would ahve already done this and not discussing it on a discord server lol

[chilly sundial]

It won't and can't exist. You can't just uninvent capitalism

[gleaming gorge]

say a american infused way

[chilly sundial]

That is the first step. If you don't know how you can convince the kingpins you won't have a cats chance in hell

[gleaming gorge]

that what i said was not so direct quote from blockchain.com vp and co-founder

i have seen some movement toward it and it came from france

its same like you pay your grind worth or you grind for items in game

[minor grove]

what if a social media requires a distributed blockchain protocol to access, and it was so cool that it would become a trend that businesses move there, and assume so many ppl start using it, and so for businesses the earlier they move there the less competitomn they have in their relativ field? Do you think things will stay the same in 30 years from now? Think about 30 years ago, in 1990 we sent the first SMS text in history, now we are alreadyy talking about the meatverse

[woeful iron]

it would have to be really cool though

[gleaming gorge]

https://customers.microsoft.com/en-us/story/1497685499820529889-lenovo-manufacturing-azure-SQL-database-ledger

one way of doing things

[chilly sundial]

We are talking about the metaverse yes. The metaverse that lost a company billions, and created a bunch of scammers.

I don't think it will be the same in 30 years, I just know web 3.0 isn't it because everyone cannot stand it. It's not a revolution, it's a con

[minor grove]

burrrhhhhh

Meta is not the metaverse

[chilly sundial]

The only people that advocate it are scammy companies and cryptobros

[chilly sundial]

Didn't say it was. Notice how I mentioned multiple companies trying to make a metaverse

That are all either failing or scamming

[minor grove]

what about HicetNunc???

[gleaming gorge]

web3 isnt a con

[minor grove]

Thtas a decentralized social experiment made by Rafael Lima, a programmer which wanted to decentralize art

market

[chilly sundial]

That discontinued platform?

Guess that one worked out then

[gleaming gorge]

have u used mastodon

[chilly sundial]

Nope

[gleaming gorge]

so far social platforms what are decentralized UI is bad so far

[minor grove]

yeah, cause it was impossible for him to develop alone and he didnt make a distributed voting system, now the community of Rafael Lima moved in Teia.

Which has a distributed voting system

for its development, fully decentralized

so it did have an impact and fuel this vision a bit further to some degree, now its about figuring out how to make a distributed system actually work

[minor grove]

was answering to this

[gleaming gorge]

web X are collection of technologies put in one and sure there is issues first what comes like new tech what have those bugs like big update can bring

off-chain ledger db seems solving some of web3 issues

[woeful iron]

the only viable "metaverse" at the moment is fortnite tbh

and it's not gonna be decentralized

[chilly sundial]

I'm sorry but you aren't ever going to convince me it's good. The fact there is one social media that hasn't failed yet doesn't change the fact its use at the moment is nearly entirely dishonest and harmful.

It's a scammers playground and always will be

[minor grove]

nah

[steady pewter]

Metaverse is just one of the things Meta/FB is developing.

[gleaming gorge]

metaverse is what have being talk a long time now

[minor grove]

If no one does anything yes, would just try to make it a better place

[steady pewter]

Kinda curious whether their new gpu/ai centres will actually gather enough attention.

[chilly sundial]

They need it to at this point.
They need a saving grace

[woeful iron]

this really devolved #career-chat to #cryptobros

[chilly sundial]

Lmao

[woeful iron]

can we get a #crypto channel so I can mute it?

[chilly sundial]

^^

[steady pewter]

#rider too

[gleaming gorge]

https://tenor.com/view/safemoon-safemoon-moon-safemoon-kennedy-safemoon-hard-safemoon-v2-gif-24050540

[chilly sundial]

And a #unity channel that no one has perms to speak on

[woeful iron]

with just one message about disabling unity build

and a second message quoting the CEO saying passionate game devs are idiots

[chilly sundial]

Wait whattttt

[woeful iron]

https://www.theverge.com/2022/7/18/23269218/unity-ceo-john-riccitiello-apology-game-developers-fucking-idiots-ironsource-merger

[chilly sundial]

Oh my

Unity don't just make an engine they have never shipped a game on I guess.

[gleaming gorge]

uniengine and unity seems big for those demos what also good for your benchmarks

[pure kettle]

They were this 🤏 close to make a more proper game

[woeful iron]

then they fired everyone

[gleaming gorge]

the opensource game then that just stopped

[pure kettle]

Last time they make their own game it was circa 2006 for the mac

[woeful iron]

they made a game?

[chilly sundial]

Inb4 it's called Unity Tournament 4

[pure kettle]

It's (seems to be) a casual game called GooBall

[chilly sundial]

Sounds.... Wonderful

[gleaming gorge]

makoto you remember the stylized open source game?

[pure kettle]

I'm afraid not

[chilly sundial]

Me neither but it sounds interesting. Lmk if you remember it

[gleaming gorge]

found https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrQimv_7gcc

[chilly sundial]

Ah cool

I like that art style ngl

[minor grove]

its like if u asked someone what was the internet during it initial development years. Also they didnt know what is was going to be, theres so many academic papers about this

[limpid stratus]

Heads up for those looking for career advice in general... each week I post our New Overlords - Behind The Games interview podcast in the #share-your-stream channel (for lack of a better place). We interview creators of all types from indie to AAA. All roles and levels from independent contractors to studio heads, etc. It's a pretty good dive into what the roles and studios are like and what it takes to make games. The whole series is designed in part for people looking for career advice so I wanted to drop a note here too. Let me know if you have any questions.

[deep mural]

Should I try? Or not realistic

Nvm they are looking for a mp coder

[cunning vessel]

Hi everyone, does anyone know any junior roles in london for unreal technical artist for virtual production? I can't seem to find that many.

[serene crystal]

#instructions

[steel creek]

I know you skipped it, but, for future reference: If you don't try, it's never going to be real. The worse someone can ever tell you is no. No is just a sound and you will hear it many more times in life; however: "You miss 100% of the shots you don't take."

[deep mural]

right

thank you

[pastel estuary]

@round shell ^^

job-posts only go into the job board section

[deep mural]

Do unreal engine programmers usually design the levels too? Like in any way? After working in unreal engine for quite a bit I realize I clearly am not "gifted" in this area 😂

For example setting up a UI ig

[modern relic]

Depends™️

In medium to large teams probably not

Smaller teams probably

Although I'm not a level designer, I have had significant input in out our systems are used in levels and how to design the level to take better advantage of our systems

[muted gyro]

Generally speaking the larger a team is the more specialized everyone is - a programmer also doing level design is something you'd probably see mostly on projects with single digit numbers of contributors

Level design and programming also aren't particularly related - on big enough projects you might not have an animator also rig the meshes they're animating, you almost certainly wouldn't see a programmer also doing level layout

[deep mural]

I see, alright thanks then

[woeful iron]

even on small projects I think the programmer would rarely do level design. If it were combined with another role I think it would sooner fall on a 3d-artist tbh, unless they are already overburdened of course

[pliant totem]

No one expects a programmer to design levels, it's not efficient for the employer too as these are two different major roles of a team.

Having sufficient knowledge in every aspect of the engine is considered an advantage that the whole team can rely on and trust in your final result.

[pure kettle]

For small team, being jack of all trades is kinda expected, but for larger team, gameplay programmers make the gameplay, and level designers make the levels based on the established metrics.

[deep mural]

That is true

[deep mural]

Alright

Thanks guys

[crude bolt]

hello guys, i would like to know if a htk-diploma is useful? i could start a 3 year "training" as game developer and wanted to know how useful it would be

[woeful iron]

wth is htk?

[pastel estuary]

hyper transfer krotokol

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[chilly sundial]

Hyper Tensile Klingons

[crude bolt]

sorry for late awnser, thought id get pinged ;_;
im german and want to become a game dev and wanted to know if its worth it to do this. HTK means hamburger technische kunstschule, means as much as hamburgian technical artschool.

[woeful iron]

Well that’s quite specific, idk if anyone on this server will have experience with that school

[crude bolt]

:/ could you recommend to me what would make most sense to do if i wanna be a game dev? i finished class 10 and im in 11 rn, i wanna "quit" and do a job instead of school

[woeful iron]

Idk what those mean lol, I’m not german

[crude bolt]

:,)

[woeful iron]

You can get a job without a degree of you really want, but you’ll have to work for it and have a very strong portfolio

[crude bolt]

a degree is hard asf to get and takes long ;_;

[woeful iron]

But also education gives you more than just the things taught in class

Well there’s a reason

Usually you end up better at something than before if you get a degree

[crude bolt]

i dont doubt that, but i genuinly hate school and not just "man i dont wanna go to school" but i am interested in not a single subject and im pretty sick of it tbh

[chilly sundial]

can speak from experience. Currently doing a computer science related course and there are so many things in it I couldn't possibly have taught myself, skills which i can certainly develop into strong portfolio pieces.

[woeful iron]

Well for high school at least it can be very boring, usually higher education is more interesting cause you choose what path to take

And choosing a degree that doesn’t interest you at all is not a smart choice

[crude bolt]

problem is id have to keep going for 2 and a half more years until that comes

[woeful iron]

Of high school?

Don’t drop out of high school my man

That sounds like the worst decision one could make

[crude bolt]

whats high school in where you live

;_;

[chilly sundial]

high school ends when you turn 18

[woeful iron]

Up to 18, like just before higher education

[crude bolt]

ah, thats prolly it then. goes until 13th class

[crude bolt]

idk ;_;

[woeful iron]

You definitely want to finish that

[crude bolt]

uhh

[woeful iron]

Or getting any job at all will be a challenge

[crude bolt]

its fuqin horrible there ngl

[chilly sundial]

dropping out of high school will nearly certainly sabotage all potential career options

[crude bolt]

oof

[woeful iron]

Let alone game dev. Then you will have to be extremely good at what you do and stick completely out above the competition

Also if you would want to work abroad, the situation would be even worse

[chilly sundial]

and even then you may subject to the biases of whoever is the manager.

[crude bolt]

with game dev i mean smaller indie games or work at game companies. still?

[woeful iron]

Let alone outside EU, that is pretty much impossible without higher education

[woeful iron]

Yes still

[crude bolt]

bruhh

[chilly sundial]

they are still companies, they will want you to have at least finished high school

[woeful iron]

A lot of people wanna be game devs

And a lot of people over estimate their skills

[crude bolt]

how do i make money or get forward as getting the skills to be a game dev tho

[chilly sundial]

id imagine not finishing high school, puts you far below already as most people do finish it.

[woeful iron]

Also getting hired full time if you’re not 18 is nigh impossible probably

[chilly sundial]

^

[crude bolt]

yes

[chilly sundial]

in pretty much everywhere i have bothered to look into it's not just just nigh impossible its illegal if it did happen

something something child labor

[crude bolt]

is there a good chance to make assets or similar things thatd sell?

[chilly sundial]

not nearly enough to make a living off

[crude bolt]

dont really mean that much xD

i mean like 100 a month or sth

[chilly sundial]

you might make a bit of spare cash now and then, but even that requires a fair amount of skill

[crude bolt]

gawd dayum

[chilly sundial]

breaking into gamedev is very hard even for people with masters degrees and decent portfolios.
now imagine that if you didnt even do high school

[pure kettle]

Even stopping at high school graduate already sabotage lots of potential career options lol

[chilly sundial]

true lmao

[shadow star]

a career in games will take a lot more fortitude than getting through high school; it's brutal out here lol

[crude bolt]

how

huh

OH STOPPING

i just read doing that doing it does

[chilly sundial]

true. i imagine a lot fo recruiters would probably say "If they couldnt finish high school they probably can't cope here either"

[crude bolt]

gawd

man im questioning game-dev rn

[pure kettle]

For one, no overseas debut. Getting into work visa as a new hire seem to be only granted as a uni grad, but not high school graduate.

[crude bolt]

oof

way worse than i thought

[pure kettle]

That'll already limit your option if your hometown region haven't catched up in gamedev industry

or normalizing shitty work practices

[woeful iron]

This is not limited to game dev btw

[chilly sundial]

i wouldnt be questioning game dev. i would be questioning dropping out tbh. Even the most boring and mundane of careers can be sabotaged by not finishing high school.
dropping out of high school makes any job hard, because you have even less than the average candidate.

[woeful iron]

I mean if you can’t commit to finishing high school, hoe should an employer expect you to commit to a full time job

[crude bolt]

AYO THATS AVERAGE?

[woeful iron]

Every job will have aspects you don’t like

And not every day will be fun

[chilly sundial]

finishing high school is pretty much the bare minimum for a job indeed

[crude bolt]

its not only aspects but lets leave it at that

[pure kettle]

Yeah, not continuing to uni already sabotage lots of career options, let alone dropping out of high school

Source: trust me bro

[woeful iron]

If you show you are a quitter in high school, you are considered a quitter anywhere

[crude bolt]

dafuq

[woeful iron]

Cause high school is not the hard part of life my man

[crude bolt]

what in the

[chilly sundial]

to an employer it shows a lack of work ethic. If you can't finish the easier part of life, what's going to keep you going if things get tough in the working world

[woeful iron]

Without high school degree don’t expect to get any job outside of manual labour or like retail tbh

[pure kettle]

Personally I don't care much about it as long as one can show the talent, but not every HR think the same way

[crude bolt]

what kinda average grade do i need to be considered ok-good

[woeful iron]

Not that those are bad jobs… just limited capabilities

[pure kettle]

At least finish high school

[chilly sundial]

to employers, employees are an investment, if you show red flags in your pitch, you will become to risky for them to take on

[shadow star]

no one checks after you graduate except uni

[crude bolt]

im gonna start working with 30 at that rate man

[woeful iron]

No one cares about grades tbh in my experience

Especially not high school grades

[crude bolt]

so a 3.5 average wouldnt kill me?

[chilly sundial]

currently shopping around for a placement (12 month internship) and literally all they care about is if i match the description, and my predicted degree grade

not even a mention of high school grades

[pure kettle]

Surely most HR couldn't care less about high school grade

[crude bolt]

idk if we have sth like HR here

what is that ;_;

[pure kettle]

High school grading per country are different

[chilly sundial]

^^

[pure kettle]

and irrelevant for career

[chilly sundial]

for example, as a English person, we have GCSE's, and then A levels/diplomas.
We dont have a GPA or anything like that

[crude bolt]

hmm, i wanna make some money besides tho but i cant really get a job.

[pure kettle]

Even submitting myself for local non gamedev work (but in content creation space), none of the HR I met asked about my damn high school grade lol

[pure kettle]

How old are you?

[chilly sundial]

only 2 useful bits of high school

• showing you finished it
• your GPA is useful for university applications as some courses won't accept low GPA.

A job won't care, as long as high school is done and you stand out

[crude bolt]

16, soon 17

3 problems, 1st not 18, 2nd long school days (4 days until 16_00), 3rd due to lack of time i often got rejected bc the times are unfitting

[pure kettle]

Yeah, your option here is go through high school and graduate from it.

[chilly sundial]

^

[pure kettle]

You can, however, prepare some stuff in advance

[crude bolt]

💀 ive thought that far

[crude bolt]

elaborate

[chilly sundial]

its never to early to start learning and building your portfolio

[crude bolt]

i just hoped there was something i missed

[woeful iron]

Lol how is 16:00 long school day

[chilly sundial]

thats what i was thinking xD

[crude bolt]

ive had a very hard time learnin c# ;_;

[crude bolt]

17 with homework, we get alot

[pure kettle]

So you're looking for Unity dev?

[woeful iron]

Just from this conversation I can tell you are far from ready for any kind of job

[chilly sundial]

^^

[crude bolt]

i wouldnt commit to that

[crude bolt]

might be

[woeful iron]

I used to literally be in school from 8:30 till 18:00 in high school lol

[crude bolt]

oof

[pure kettle]

C# is hardly used in Unreal Engine, most of the time you're dealing with its ecosystem, Blueprints, and Unreal C++

[woeful iron]

Seems like you just want everything in life without effort

Which is common for teenagers, but just unrealistic and impossible

[crude bolt]

i know, i thought c# would be easiest thats why i tried unity but it didnt click

[woeful iron]

The chance you get any significant job without finishing high school are close to 0 in general

[shadow star]

I don't read that, it seems more like perfectionism: not being able to see that everything isn't an impossible amount of work because not everything needs to be perfect

[crude bolt]

yes

[crude bolt]

ok

[pure kettle]

As far as C# goes, you're just dealing with Build.cs file, which is worth as much as a build config file

[woeful iron]

Finishing high school is not my definition of perfect lol

[crude bolt]

meaning i should rather learn c++?

[pure kettle]

(unless you modify engine source but that's another can of worm)

[woeful iron]

More like the bare minimum

[woeful iron]

If you want unreal yes

[chilly sundial]

for me i found python to be the easiest for a beginner to learn, and once i had grown comfortable with that over a couple of years, i moved on to c++

[woeful iron]

For unity c#

[shadow star]

for sure; the concern over grades etc. though, just that kind of stressing etc.

[woeful iron]

Just programming, python is probably the easiest

[pure kettle]

If you want to commit yourself to it, yes, and even outside Unreal, you still got some niche to fill

[woeful iron]

But I would move on to any c style language pretty soon

[chilly sundial]

high schools do always seem to overstress the importance of high school grades

[crude bolt]

im learning java in school as of now, should i learn it privatly too or what should i start with?

[woeful iron]

If you are passionate

Do something you like that also helps you develop some skills

[pure kettle]

and having students to learn them all, it can be overwhelming to some

[shadow star]

Yeah, it makes sense because "measurement" but I wish instead they'd kind of start by teaching the Cult of Done

[woeful iron]

But don’t feel like you have to

[chilly sundial]

my high school experience was terrible, had to have counselling to get through it because it was hell. As soon as Finished and moved on to Further Education (16 -18) and University, it was like a weight was lifted, and i started enjoying learning.

[woeful iron]

Except if you still wanna drop out… then you need to become real good real fast

[pure kettle]

Java also still have some niche these days (e.g. NSA's Ghidra)

[woeful iron]

The language you learn is not as important as the concepts

Once you know one the others become way easier

[crude bolt]

id do it in order to learn another language to improve my understanding. but it doesnt align with my desire to create games i believe bc i heard its not great for that

[woeful iron]

Especially if that one is c++ 😢

[chilly sundial]

placement i applied to the otehr day for a computer science role in a water management company actually uses java for it's backend lol

[woeful iron]

You can apply what you learn to other languages

C# is quite similar to java for example

[crude bolt]

heard that too

[woeful iron]

And even for java I’m sure there are some graphics libraries

Just do something

Doesn’t have to be (and never will be) a AAA full scale game

[chilly sundial]

ik java supports opengl

[woeful iron]

Make tic tac toe for all I care

Just start somewhere

And do things that you like

You can make command line games fun

Also don’t become a game dev just because you like playing games btw…

Its very different

Just throwing that out there

[crude bolt]

my largest problem is i had a hard time to keep going if i dont have positive results. pretty unpatient ngl

[woeful iron]

People in my school started because of those reasons, we had a 17% passing rate…

[pure kettle]

Heh, funnily enough I motivated to become game dev by modding

[chilly sundial]

my first major programming project was a command line text adventure in python. i had a blast making and playing it. even made a pokemon style combat system for it lol

[woeful iron]

Modding is way closer to dev than playing though

[shadow star]

that's common, it's going to take some time to develop your own patience and focus

[crude bolt]

im interested in coding itself too, idk if its what i should do for work but i dont have anything else

[chilly sundial]

i intially wanted to go into this field because i liked making game ideas, came to find out i also really enjoy programming

[crude bolt]

yeah

[woeful iron]

Finishing high school is a great test to learn finishing things 🙂

[woeful iron]

You don’t have to know, you’re 16 for christ sake

[crude bolt]

i love the small results you get along the way :o

[woeful iron]

16 year olds are dumbasses

No offense

You don’t know shit at that age

[crude bolt]

yes im an dumbass, full offense

[chilly sundial]

set yourself lots of small reasonable goals.

[crude bolt]

lmao

[woeful iron]

If you like coding do coding

My biggest advice is do things you enjoy

[chilly sundial]

16 year olds are probably at the peak of that dunning Krueger of life experience

[pure kettle]

Look, you're 16, you still have time to prepare something in advance.

[crude bolt]

even if i like it, ill get unmotivated without results...same with drawing, like it but same thing

[shut token]

You have, literally the rest of your life to be working and stress about that. Enjoy your youth.

[woeful iron]

Results come eventually

If you can’t live without instant gratification, your life will be pretty grim

[crude bolt]

im fine with that, but i just wanna know what way to learn so i dont waste too much time

[chilly sundial]

its a skill you are going to have to learn. plenty of things take more time than making a project for fun. such as building a career

[woeful iron]

Any time spent learning anything is not time wasted

[crude bolt]

not instant, but id be pretty upset if i were to code 2 weeks and learned nothing

[woeful iron]

If you don’t learn anything in 2 weeks at all you’re doing something wrong

Even by struggling you learn though

Make mistakes to learn

[crude bolt]

yes, thats the point i want to avoid

ok ;_;

just on the side, what way would you recommend for me to learn c++?

or c#

[pure kettle]

I'd say C/C++, once you getting the hang of it, it's somewhat easy to go elsewhere

[crude bolt]

alr lets say c++. would i just keep on watching videos or what would make most sense

[pure kettle]

Pinned message on #cpp have some resources on that

[crude bolt]

alr

[woeful iron]

For some c++ learning resources, click the link in my bio

[crude bolt]

bro is advertising 💀 but ok, thx

[woeful iron]

I mean I gain nothing from it

Is it advertising

[crude bolt]

hardly

[woeful iron]

You will find the link in the pinned messages anyway

[crude bolt]

doesnt look promising but ill read it

[woeful iron]

C++ is one of the hardest to learn though imo, but once you got it down, other languages make a lot of sense

[woeful iron]

Wdym

[pure kettle]

At the end of the day, enjoy your high school as much as you can, learn those C++ stuff on the side.

[crude bolt]

would you happen to know what i said to receive a timeout :,)?

[chilly sundial]

i would hazard a guess that your comment about the resources they compiled "Not looking promising" could be seen as extremely insulting, and unnecessary

[crude bolt]

ok :( i mean that i wouldnt be what id expect to be reccomended by him to be "teached" first

[modern relic]

I don't think many people here are interested in teaching one on one but instead are happy to direct you to resources for you to learn by yourself, which is what happened

[crude bolt]

yes, i said thx :o i appreciate it but questioned it due** to not having seen anything like it

[modern relic]

I really don't mean this in a rude way but if you are new to c++ and are asking for learning resources how would you know what to expect?

[crude bolt]

due to trying other languages :o, i dont know exactly what to expect ofc

makes sense

[crude bolt]

i see how it could possibly come off as insulting, but me saying ill read it is pretty much respecting his reccomendations. timeout was quite unneccesary

[chilly sundial]

isn't that how libraries were invented?

[modern relic]

Wait you guys write stuff down?

I just forget and ask in #cpp

[crude bolt]

what does that blue reaction man on my message mean ;_;

no, it was neccesary o.o?

checks out

[modern relic]

Discord doesn't have a disagree emoji and I don't know how to make them. I was disagreeing about your comment.

[crude bolt]

so youd say a timeout would make sense in that case even with no malicious/bad will

[chilly sundial]

it comes off definitely as rude and ungrateful, rather than appreciative and quesitoning

[modern relic]

I'm not going to argue I was just explaining the react

[crude bolt]

im not either, just asking if thats how you see it :o

[crude bolt]

id see that afterwards, still idk if i should get a timeout for that but well, too late now

[chilly sundial]

im sure it wasn't intended to be that way, but that's how it sounded, word choice matters. It probably got a timeout, as i would imagine things like that fall under rule 1

[modern relic]

My advice is to accept that whether it was the wording or the intent it was perhaps interpreted the wrong way and move on

[crude bolt]

yes, just wanted to know why for sure so i can reflect. id not neccesarily agree but its over now

[crude bolt]

could be :o

well, ima head out. gn8

[chilly sundial]

cya around!

[pure kettle]

This tbh
Some people would complain that we give links, but we're not broken vinyl records, and they likely wouldn't have found the link to begin with

Unless one is a private tutor, only then just leaving the links are not so excusable.

[chilly sundial]

Unless you are a private tutor dropping some helpful resources to help them in their spare time

i mean pretty much every lecture at uni my lecturer reminds us that the best website is en.cppreference.com

oh for sure lol

thankfully we are past the point of learning the language now, it was just an example, albeit an ill-fitting one

[plucky hatch]

.

[crude bolt]

i looked at my options again, i need some advice.
If i were to finish High School i could either squeeze in an Intership in between and get sth thats like a highschool degree, only for a certain job.
so id have 2 degrees, 1 for that Job and Highschool.
does it make sense going for that extra year or would it make more sense to pull through and just find a proper job afterwards

[woeful iron]

this is a very personal choice

if you only get a degree focussed on one job, be sure you want that job

better than not finishing high school though

[crude bolt]

ok let me ask differently then :o

would that degree focussed on one job give me a remarkable advantage, making it worth 1 extra year or should i just do a 2-3 year training which actually teaches me all skills after highschool

[woeful iron]

I mean, for that specific job, you'll have the advantage over people who didn't do the internship

but not really for other jobs I would think

there's no such thing as "teaching all skill after highschool"

it's not like you go to school for 3 years and know everything in the world lol

[crude bolt]

yes

[woeful iron]

higher education is also quite focused on a job direction

like if you study computer science, you don't become a bio-chemist

[crude bolt]

yes youre right. i forgor to say that i dont believe that the internship will properly teach, in contrast a training or study at university will give me proper skills i can seriously use afterwards

[woeful iron]

if you don't the internship teaches anything why would you do it lol

[crude bolt]

because of the paper ill receive that says it did 💀 same with highschool

[woeful iron]

a degree should never be a goal tbh

only a means to an end

[crude bolt]

id study at an university, but tbh i dont wanna have to pay to learn 🤡

[woeful iron]

that is a very wild take

[crude bolt]

indeed

[woeful iron]

so if it were free you would do it?

[crude bolt]

definetly

[pure kettle]

If you're able to pay for it or getting the grant, go for college, at least it could ease you a bit when applying for job

[woeful iron]

isn't german education free?

or like extremely cheap

[crude bolt]

usually yes, everything except universities i believe due to them being optional. costs are no where near as high as in US tho

[pure kettle]

and by a bit, I mean weaponize it to get your way into HR and possibly work visa

[crude bolt]

lemme search, bc i got told it costs

[crude bolt]

wdym ;_;

[woeful iron]

https://www.study.eu/article/study-in-germany-for-free-what-you-need-to-know

public university is free by law

if you follow the "normal track"

also tbh, unless you go to an american university costing hundreds of thousands, I would generally say the investment in higher education is worth it

but that can depend a lot on where and what you study

and how much effort you put in yourself

I know some people have different takes though

but it for sure will make finding your first job tons easier

[crude bolt]

yh, let me look at the free ones then. are the free ones "worse" than paid ones?

[woeful iron]

literally on that same page

I would doubt they're very bad

[crude bolt]

alr, lemme look if theres any close

[woeful iron]

don't you have like parents to discuss this with?

[deep mural]

:(

[crude bolt]

yh, they told me just go through with highschool its smarter, theyd be ok if id quit and get a job tho.
they dont know much abt this stuff bc they didnt study either ;_;

[woeful iron]

at least we can all agree that high school is the bare minimum

what you do after that very much depends on what you want to achieve, and who you are as a person