manga-theories

[ashen surge]

Where is the sunbells sun tattoo

[tough grotto]

Yeah guess I was misinformed about. But that wasn't my main point

[ashen surge]

You're trying to find parallels from places where there aren't really any. Luffy's journey parallels Rogers for sure but it doesn't mean their crews are supposed to match

[candid stratus]

There's no chance their crews will ever match. Do you even know how many memeber the Roger pirates have compared to the straw hats???

[tough grotto]

Your picking out specific points and ignoring the ones you can't counter. Oda has given every strawhat member a roll on the crew. They specialise in something they do something aka a "role". Which bonney doesn't fill. Yamato is a parallel to oden. And being honest she can still exist as one if she follows on the montage journey back through the grandline which oden did

[ashen surge]

Oden's "role" in Roger Pirates was to translate the Poneglyphs, that goes to Robin. Who was Roger's cook, navigator, helmsman, musician?

[wide geyser]

is it possible to have a traitor in the straw hats

[weak arrow]

Realistically, the odds are 0.00001%

[wide geyser]

i dont think anyone would even accept that theyre a traitor

[pure raven]

Probably not but who knows. Ussop had some things that implied he might sell out the sh but I doubt he would if the time came

[wide geyser]

hmm u think so?
yeah i think he would be most likely to be a traitor

[pure raven]

Oh not in the slightest but it would be a interesting plot line and he’s the only one I can kinda see

[wide geyser]

also bro what is ur name 💀

[pure raven]

Dw about it smh

[steady prism]

Like Adam said, it’s possible but highly unlikely. In the future, please put questions like this in #manga or #manga-serious . This isn’t the right channel for that

[wide geyser]

ahh sorry
i thought it was a theory thats why, my bad

[steady prism]

!theories you’re good. In general if you have an idea and back it up with some reasoning and/or evidence, we’d welcome it here

[lone hedge]

Please refrain from using manga-theories for joke theories, casual chit-chat, power scaling, bounty predictions or low-effort memes. This channel is for serious discussion- please read the channel description. Posts here must be in paragraph form, preferably with evidence, not just a one line open question.

[wide geyser]

ohh u have have reasoning
fair enough my bad, thanks for clearing it up

[strange olive]

Bc my working theory which isn’t completely yet, I feel like it still has a lot of holes to fill in it. But the last road ponoglif isn’t on a island but is entrusted by someone to protect it and my best assumption is zunisha knows where the ponoglif is or has it on him and (it a different one from zou) and again maybe someone but Ik this last ponoglif isnt just gonna br on some island

Because for these 800 years your telling me only one pirate group found it outta millions of pirates who try so gol D Rodger must of had a secret power (will of D.ex: of how he can hear the sea monster in the sea) that help him to figure what or where the last road ponoglif is.

[distant barn]

I think Luffy's final goal/dream is related to turning "the world upside down" just like Roger mentioned in Rayleigh's flashback. This also makes sense considering how similar Luffy's and Roger's personalities are. When he achieves his final goal, the world will never be the same again.

[strange olive]

It a good thought but I think roger kinda did that already he made everyone go out to see and disobey the WG which is a good but u also gotta think that why people like BB and Kaido dolflomingo all those enemies came from and cause all the violence which Ik luffy doesn’t want

I think u right in the saying but different meanings I feel like he wants to make everyone free with no government

[steady prism]

Roger did have the VoAT, but that didn’t help him find Laugh Tale. It was only once he partnered with Oden that he managed to find Laugh Tale.

We already know that the “final” Road Poneglyph was at FMI during Roger’s era,. Ultimately, I think the reason why nobody’s reached Laugh Tale until Roger is primarily because of Wano as a whole:

• the Kozuki’s are the original ones that can write & read the language of the Poneglyph
• they had a Road Poneglyph in their possession at the Flower Capital at Wano, which is famously isolated from the world
• the Minks had another Road Poneglyph on a “moving island” (ie Zunesha) that wasn’t accessible unless you reach it on accident or if the Kozukis give you a vivire card to Zou.

Imo, there are two possibilities right now:

1. Somebody has been “entrusted” the Road Poneglyph from FMI to keep it safe
2. Someone “stole” the Road Poneglyph from FMI because they know the significance of that Poneglyph

What you’re saying is possible, but I don’t think it has to be on another “moving island” because we already saw it at FMI, which wasn’t moving in the first place.

[candid stratus]

At the rate we're moving I can even see Vegapunk having the last poneglyph

[dim drum]

I think Shanks might have been entrusted by Roger to help facilitate whatever is supposed to happen 20 years after they reached Laugh Tale, and thus decided to steal it the FMI Road Poneglyph to better ensure its security.

A lot of pretty powerful crews need to pass through FMI in order to transition from Paradise to the New World so maybe Shanks felt the Poneglyph would be safer if guarded by a crew as strong as his.

[elder fox]

What’s in the egg

I only care about 🥚 theories. Big news Morgan’s is my guess🧠

[pure raven]

What kind of Haki do you guys think Law has mastered/improved? What is he boasting about?

[west summit]

Is not a different type of haki, it's just covering yourself in strong haki so it negates the devil fruit effects

[fair vine]

I think egg in vegapunk island has something to do with egg in roger's ship..

[mellow anchor]

I don't know if anyone has proposed this before, but I think Urouge's devil fruit is the Inga Inga no Mi, or the Karma Karma Fruit. My only basis for this is his one named attack, Inga Zarashi (Karma Exposure).

I hope my theory isnt like, low effort. We really dont know much about Urouge so this is the only good theory I could come up with

[novel scroll]

The reason BB kidnapped Pudding

[storm karma]

vegapunk joins straw hat

[snow herald]

With the BB crew gaining new devil fruit abilities, we need the weaker straw hats to gain a massive power boost in a short time. So now with vegapunk, I assume they'll get new gadgets and or go through some training. I think whilst the world goes into chaos, the straw hats are going to take it slow/easy on Egghead and power up

[iron goblet]

The most accurate theory of one piece suggests that one piece is joy boy's afro😂.

https://youtu.be/57TBd8_1E9Y

[near pond]

.Maybe Vegapunk will give the Strawhats new Weapons especially Nami,Franky and Usopp since they use Weapons

[reef pond]

I think and also hope that Bonney joins the straw hats. If we think about it, she doesn't have a crew right now and Luffy also maybe can help her with the kuma situation.

[peak plover]

I think Rocks D. Xebec may in some way be related to sabo. Garp was luffy's grandfather, Roger was Ace's father, and since luffy, Ace, and Sabo had bonding experience that made them brothers in a way maybe Garp, Roger, and Rocks had some kind of experience that made them become close in a way.

[split mortar]

Armament as defense.

[candid stratus]

This is a quick theory I just thought up after reading the latest chapter. It's the only way I see Law getting out of this situation and It's by using his soul swap technique. If he does so everyone will be significantly less strong + just imagine BB in Stronger's body Or it might fail and Law will shed some light on why everyone has been saying BB has a "strange" body

[lusty lark]

yo in the new chapter luffy has " ssg " written on his shirt maybe he gonna turn into goku ssg with gear 5

[spiral fractal]

Which chap was this?

[novel scroll]

I don't remember the chapter, but here's the panel

[sharp ginkgo]

did they time travel?

[lyric magnet]

I bet law is gonna use his ability to take out peoples hearts on Blackbeard but it’s gonna prove that black beard has three(or two)

[radiant glen]

dayumm

[glacial portal]

We only know 4 that could help law out rn with unknown locations. First with the biggest motive is Garp. He wants to save koby, Shanks could appear aswell even if its a lower chance. Kidd is also somewhere not far. Dragon is maybe moving aswell and can by accident interfere with law and bb.

[candid stratus]

Koby is part of sword so he might've gone intentionally. If that was the case Garp has no reason to intervene. Shanks is gone to deal with Bartolomeo. Kidd could jump in that would be cool but he did just leave for another island. Why would dragon ever want to interfere. You missed the biggest possibility which is Aokiji. As we've said many times he is likely to be a sword member. If that turns out to be true it would make a lot of sense for Koby to have given himself in. Maybe they planned to meet and when Koby saw the opportunity to do so he jumped it, surrendering to BB. If they see BB is fighting Law they could use that chance to do the same and side with Law.

[glacial portal]

Hmm. Kuzan is badass if he is a sword member and yes that is a big possibility that might be the case! But do you think that garp knows about koby being a sword member? Do you think garp is aswell? And dragon has unfinished business with teach. He hurt his son by killing his adoptive brother. Also for destryoing baltigo. Idk man. Im just spitting up ideas

[candid stratus]

Oh right I completely forgot about Baltigo. That would be a good reason, only I don't think Dragon has time to deal with shit that doesn't help his cause. Well there is a considerable amount of people who think Garp is also a member of sword if not even the head of sword. All of that is questionable but it would explain how Koby got in anyway.

[glacial portal]

I think that the revolutionary are out searching for sabo. And we dont know how far the island law and bb are on is away from where sabo was last seen. So the possibility in dragon appearing by accident while searching for sabo is also there. What we know for a fact is that law will die if he fights the BB pirates alone. And he is a way to big figure in One piece to remove just like that. So the chances of someone interfering is big. Or that law somehow escapes. I was thinking about who else could be nearby. We dont really know where the cross guild is. We know that crocodile had some hate towards whitebeard. And teach was a whitebeard pirate before. Man there are 100 different outcomes here.

[candid stratus]

Well if you look just above the picture above our discussion you will find a short theory I posted on how Law could get away

[lyric magnet]

Idk because we just had that with boa and Rayleigh would be weird to have another warlord saved from Blackbeard by some one

[glacial portal]

I mean it is law we are talking about here. He cant die just like that. I feel that the ope ope fruit has a big part to play in the endgame of one piece. And ofc in the hands of law

[digital stag]

Imu is a personification of the goddess nyx

[brazen oasis]

The fruit might dosent require law to live for it to be important. But BlackBeard has reason to keep law alive to Get immortality operation

[brazen acorn]

Sabo is literally the son of 2 nobles though

[candid stratus]

If we want to get wild, Rocks could be too

Although I don't think whatever JINBE said holds any water

[lyric magnet]

Another interesting part of the chapter is law saying something along the lines of “me and you winner take all” and from what we know about Blackbeard if he starts losing he’s gonna tall his crew to jump in

[spiral fractal]

BB vs Dragon will be interesting.

[spiral fractal]

But nobody knew about that secret ability except Corazon, who the told only Law.

[brazen oasis]

your talking about blackbeard
a guy who seems to know more about devilfruits than most

[spiral fractal]

Yea but Law's fruit's secret ability could be like Luffy's fruit, a well protected secret. Remember Corazon said something like if people knew about the fruit's secret ability there'd have been more wars and bloodshed over it.

[spiral fractal]

I do admit his crew is getting extra overpowering. Not sure how SH can defeat them and what the match ups would be.

[brazen oasis]

again we DK blackbeards knowlege just that he seems to know more than most but yea

[spiral fractal]

I still maintain that SH crew needs 1 logia type user.

There's already 2 Zoans, 2 Paramecia

[wild minnow]

Luffy ain't paramecia

[spiral fractal]

I never said Luffy though. The 2 Para are Brook and Robin.

[wild minnow]

Oh I forgot Brook 😂

[spiral fractal]

I really wished Yamato joined the SH crew.

[brazen oasis]

Assume vegapunk will make a deal and power up Straw hats in some way that or just help learn more about their Abilities

[wild minnow]

I am used to seeing brook that he looked normal to me now.

[spiral fractal]

I can see this happening, since WG want to wipe him out now to cleave off potential loose ends.

[brazen oasis]

Question is if its the WG Or the World nobles CP0 only works for one afterall

[wild minnow]

It's a Chopper, Sanji, Franky and hopefully Usopp arc. If we're talking about upgrades

[brazen oasis]

i assume sanji and franky will be important considering vegapunks History with sanjis father and franky essentialy pilfering his old labratory

[spiral fractal]

I didn't get why Zoro didn't get the 2nd cursed Kitetsu blade from Tenguyama Hitetsu.

[wild minnow]

U want 4 swords style?

[spiral fractal]

No, he would have swapped the Sandai Kitetsu with the Nidai Kitetsu.

[brazen oasis]

Speaking of zoro wonder when we learn what he wants from vegapunk

[spiral fractal]

This will be interesting! Chopper could also get help from VP to get his monster medicine balls perfected.

The Nidai is a superior grade sword, higher than the Sandai. Zoro should have had an extra sword upgrade.

[wild minnow]

He wants lightsaber

[ashen gate]

random thought :

Since Law have a power to make someone immortal exchange with his life

maybe Law will use that power to make luffy immortal ,

Luffy already have claim Laws respect and trust (I guess)
And as we know , luffy life span is shorten by alot

Maybe luffy will die from using gear 5 too as it put alot of strain on his body <- Visibly aging and also forcing his heart to beat

and Law , with his last act might make luffy immortal so luffy can continue his goal as Joyboy , and Liberate everyone in the world of one piece

, Of corse , why would oda give Law's fruit the power to make someone immortal if he not gonna use the ultimate ability

reply to @wild minnow Yea , but like close to death or smt

[hard pine]

i have a theory xebec went to god valley to defeat imu and become king of the world garp teamed up with roger as it was his duty as a marine and roger teamed up with garp cus he knew it was not for xebec but for joyboy to take that throne
any thoughts?

anyone here

[candid stratus]

I don't know about the joyboy take but I posted this theory a while ago (probably wasn't the first but still we talked about it extensively there)

#manga-theories message

[spiral fractal]

Imagine if the Marines had been playing 4D chess this whole time just to setup Aokiji into BB's crew. The fight between Akainu and Aokiji was actually just a sparring match but made to look like a big falling out just to make it look like Aokiji left the Marines to give him a reasonable excuse to be able to join BB crew.

Kinda like the HK movie Internal Affairs or the Hollywood remake The Departed. Police mole into the gangs.

[iron bolt]

imo law will win the encounter and will show us bb isn’t as strong as we think but ultimately bb will win because of backhand tactics (doc q sickening all of law crew, theory of him having 3 hearts law does gamma knife bb is injured law thinks he won then bb backstab) whatever the case may be. i think we will learn more about bb also because law will see his body structure like he did kaido but maybe he’ll be confused. i don’t think law will die tho because it wouldn’t make sense for him to die rn in the story i don’t think at least. reason to believe so tho is the island name wasn’t mentioned either so what if scopper gaban is still alive and living just how rayleigh is then he senses this crazy haki on the island and goes helps laws crew we’d see a parallel of a couple chapters ago bb getting scared of rayleigh. law would get the crew improvement he finally needs or maybe they just stay and he teaches the rest of the crew haki like bepo and such. maybe a new introduction of a character that is 1st or 2nd commander level who comes and helps law because of a grudge against bb or wants to protect his family island.

[dim drum]

I doubt this happens but because we've already seen Shanks pretty recently, but I had a fun idea. Maybe this island BB and Law are on is the island where Barto burned Shanks' flag. Maybe after dealing with Barto in some capacity, Shanks realizes that BB and Law are on the island and he and his crew save Law because Law saved Luffy at Marineford. However, since Law and his crew aren't in a position to fight Shanks either they then strike a deal: Shanks lets the HP leave the island safely in exchange for their Road Poneglyph copies.

Or rather copies of their copies

[pure raven]

But why would Shanks want that? Assuming he already knows either about Laugh Tales location or what the One Piece is about

Speaking of which .. do we even know if Shanks has any kinds of information about these two things?

[craggy vine]

Does anyone else think Usopp might have his slingshot eat a devil fruit? It'll show off how Vegapunk invented zoan weapons and give Usopp a buff before both Elbaf, which he'll presumably be a focal point of, and the fight with the Blackbeard Pirates. The only other thing I can think of happening to make him able to go toe to toe with Van Auger's teleportation is developing extremely advanced observation haki to predict where he moves to. Specifically I think a spider fruit, so he can use webs to guide his shots

[hollow minnow]

So did anyone already threw out there the possibility that kuzan kidnapped pudding ? I mean, the place in the cover is all frozen. Not many people use ice and cracker isn't exactly weak. It makes sense i guess if you consider that there has been talk that he aligned with Bb.

[lament crane]

We may or may not be getting a rocky port flashback since Blackbeard has been meeting the people involved in it in recent chapters (koby and law)

[royal summit]

I kinda hope usopp ditches the slingshot in the future and gets a serious rifle, because in a we saw in the blackbeard pirates and ace flashback how fast van auger can deliver shots, and I dont hink usopp will be able to match that because of the time it takes him to wind up his slingshot

[acoustic gale]

Short "theory" but in this arc all crew members get upgraded cuz CP coming after VP

[craggy vine]

A zoan weapon could possibly load itself though, combined with observation haki and the use of dials I think he could stick with the slingshot (although a gun would be cool)

[rocky oar]

unless that gun has the same versatility as his sling, I don't really see it happening. Franky has tons of guns on his creation and yet Ussop doesn't use it, I like to believe this is because a sling allows him to use more varied ammunition

[ornate olive]

The one piece is probably gonna be a note saying i hope u had fun on ut adventure

[steady prism]

This is a question that is better asked in #manga

[steady prism]

Please use #manga or #manga-serious for commentary. This is not the channel for that

[steady prism]

Could you please elaborate? Typically in this channel, we request that people add a few sentences of evidence/reasoning to their ideas. Otherwise, this is better put in #manga-serious

!theories

[lone hedge]

Please refrain from using manga-theories for joke theories, casual chit-chat, power scaling, bounty predictions or low-effort memes. This channel is for serious discussion- please read the channel description. Posts here must be in paragraph form, preferably with evidence, not just a one line open question.

[acoustic gale]

So my theory goes like this. Crew is on science island of sorts and regarding the history some members "have" with VP some if not all could possibly gain a boost up before final showdowns start happening. Sanji, Franky, Chopper would be prime examples maybe even Zoro with black blade stuff. Let's not forget Ussop and Nami getting their "weapons" upgraded. Tho for other members i could get any ideas about boost ups for time being, apart from some EXTRA KNOWLEDGE.

[tulip sorrel]

My corroborated idea was the straw hat is a map of the world with the red lining being the red line. Imu had a giant straw hat which could be their map of the world potentially.

nothing original

[pure raven]

It’s a very undetailed map and like why a straw hat?

[tulip sorrel]

i think the hat might have more significance than the will of the wearer

[pure raven]

random thought-bb kidnapped coby and right after that chap we have luffy sayin he got to know about vegapunk from coby

this chap....we see 5 of bb pirates against law and 2 of them in wci (prolly)
and since there are 10 of them where are the other 3?

my guess they are headin for vegapunk place with coby and sound reason for that would be they want to kidnap vegapunk and make sure there weapons too have df's

[mellow mountain]

I just found amazing theory on yt regarding the location of one piece is and maybe you guys want to watch it too 😂. Can I share the link here? Or should I share it on another channel?

[fallow bobcat]

Here should be fine I think

[mellow mountain]

Okayy, so I just found this and its really amazing.

https://youtu.be/57TBd8_1E9Y

[pure raven]

is the theory related to whales?

[mellow mountain]

YES

It's really interesting how he look at it.

[hard pine]

its inside a whale theory? i heard that but i dont think its possible

[mellow mountain]

The first point when he said about the location was quite good. He said the location might be in the middle of the long ring long land. Forthe detailed info it's on the video. But then again it's just a theory 😂

[soft delta]

But it's really really really good

Except the afro part

[mellow mountain]

Fr 😂

[steady prism]

Sharing a link is fine, but we'd prefer that you also write up a summary of the theory (the premise, some of the evidence/reasoning behind the idea, etc.) so that it can foster better discussion. So please update your message with a summary.

!theories @sick sparrow @pure raven questions/ideas are better put in #manga or #manga-serious

[lone hedge]

Please refrain from using manga-theories for joke theories, casual chit-chat, power scaling, bounty predictions or low-effort memes. This channel is for serious discussion- please read the channel description. Posts here must be in paragraph form, preferably with evidence, not just a one line open question.

[hard pine]

i think the next pirate king is not going to be luffy many reasons
first shanks about 90% knows where one piece is (cus of his statement its time to go get the one piece)
second buggy has a crew with crocodile's brain and mihawk's swordsmanship and the abnormal about of luck.
black beard who may have a plot armour if oda wants an ending like dawn after darkness .
just dm me if u need more details.
this is a theory btw

[mellow mountain]

Ohh sorry, okay wait so let me try to break this down.

Before we delve into the theory, one fact that should be addressed is Oda's tendencies to insert hints in hundreds of previous chapters (like how skypiea connected to nika) and majority of us definitely could not predict this. Due to this, we could conclude that no matter how small (in-significant) the arc was, it could become significant for future events.
Using the previous logic, we could agree that oda may already have given us hints regarding the tale position in the most insignificant arc of one piece, which is long ring long land. The theory starts from the panel where that 1 resident named Tongjit said that on that island, everyone feels free and naturally they grow longer and taller than normal. Here, the key word “free” could be implied to Luffy's power as to be said that his 5th gear is the most freedom form and looking at how devil fruit power could permanently affect the landscape of the island (like punk hazard), it has high possibility that the last user of gomu2, which is joy boy, permanently affect the geography of the long ring long land.

[mellow mountain]

Similar paralel also could be seen between usopp and buggy (similar personality too which is coward) when roger sailed to laugh tale. Here it was shown that while entering the long ring long land, usop has the “die when going to an unknown island” syndrome and looks truly sick which same thing also happened to buggy when roger sailed to laugh tale and he suddenly got sick. Maybe some kind of people have a similar reaction when in a certain area(?) like how momo-luffy and oden-roger in zou felt a little uncomfortable. Maybe this becomes one of the indications where the laugh tale is at, near, or it’s in the middle of the long ring long land. If the laugh tale is in the middle of the island, then it could become a good hiding spot where it could not be detected using normal log pose (since it’s going to only be directed to one of the 10 points). Thus, that is the reason why it has to use the exact coordinate from road poneglyph to find this island.
The speaker also mentioned that the geography of long ring long land during its once a year natural phenomenon is very similar to wano. The once a year phenomenon may make the island unable to be accessible to ships due to the low tide and from the crown-shaped land connector that created some kind of border like wano. Looking at how in the middle of the underwater wano there is an ancient city and weapon, maybe it has a high possibility that the middle of long ring long land also has something. The speaker said that this crown-shaped island could become a perfect way to hide a treasure (one piece).

[mellow mountain]

There are 2 more long theories that explain that the laugh tale is inside a whale (this one also kinda make sense imo) and one piece is actually joy boy’s afro (this one is actually quite ridiculous in my opinion lmao). But you can check the video if you guys are interested for more detail info on this. overall, it was quite interesting theories if I could say hahaha.

btw, sorry for the long paragraph. Im very sorry if my words are not making any sense T^T

[primal cargo]

Blackbeard / Blackbeard pirates coming to Egghead ?

• The outside world scenes of 1061 and 1062 were clearly setup for the featured characters to be involved in Egghead (SWORD, Smoker&Tashigi and CP0) so the BB vs Law clash could be the same, otherwise it could be a bit of an outlier
• SWORD are already set up to interact with BB
• We may be going towards some Rocky Port stuff with Coby, BB and Law all being involved in that
• If Egghead is to live up to expectations (being an equivalent to Sabaody / being the start of the super hype final saga) then we're gonna need some major stakes, the CP0 assassination being nowhere near enough, so I think it's likely that some crazy strong/important characters make their appearance soon

Also Blackbeard is going after everything he can right now so if he learns about the WG getting rid of Vegapunk he would obviously go for it

[hoary hatch]

BB was specifically camping one of the islands on the routes away from Wano. Which incidentally means that he knows Wano and the three log pose routes away from it. BB is generally well informed about all kinds of secretive things. BB didn't specifically choose any crew to attack, he said it himself that he wanted to steal poneglyph rubbings from one of the 3 crews that caused the havoc on Wano. In other words, I don't think BB had need to camp out all three routes, all he cares is that he gets the poneglyph rubbings and any one crew will do.

[sharp merlin]

I think Kuma was injured beyond regular medicinal repair and had to be converted into a cyborg

[primal cargo]

Indeed, he got lucky too since Law has the Zou one, whereas Kid has the Big Mom one which is free anyway

[hoary hatch]

Law gave Kid a poneglyph rubbing in chapter 1056. So Kid also has the rubbing from Kaido's Poneglyph.

[primal cargo]

Yes they both have the Wano Poneglyph, I was talking about the difference between them
Also the fact that Law is probably an easier enemy ?

[hoary hatch]

Kid's crew has Killer, who is another notable fighter from the Worst Generation. Law has the former captain-what'shisname, likely as his strongest fighter (if Bepo doesn't become stronger in Sulong form) but other than that we haven't seen anything remarkable from either crew. BB on the other hand brought at least three of his captains and who knows how many ships.

[primal cargo]

Feels to me like Law is gonna serve as a plot device to deliver to Blackbeard the two Road Pons that would have been the hardest for him to get. Obviously he's not gonna be killed, but I think he'll lose in a way that allows him to escape but with BB getting the rubbings

[pure raven]

So, what about this theory. We know that Choco land is "frozen" - ?.. And Pudding got napped, maybe Katakuri could end up with Law? It's just wishful thinking at the end of the day, but it would sorta make sense since Pudding has been kidnapped. And we don't know what island Law ended up in. Also he needs a big amount of force to back up that smirk he sent Blackbeard, Oven and Katakuri would provide useful!

[lapis inlet]

I dont think that katakuri and oven are going to help dude that killed their mom

[pure raven]

I suppose fair enough, maybe not help but more like, I'll use the situation to my advantage, since Pudding was napped by these bastards!

[lyric magnet]

Law uses his abilities to rip out black beards heart and learn that he actually has three, he finds out that each heart is linked to a devil fruit so he gives the heart to bepo and tells him to run, he holds off Blackbeard long enough for his crew to get away and now he can’t kill law without losing his ability to get his third devil fruit so he holds him prisoner until someone comes to save him maybe garp coming to save koby will give law an opportunity to escape

[stone oyster]

Didn't katekuri want luffy to take down Big Mom?

[pure raven]

He did

[wind helm]

Haki and the Will to Conquer.

Haki is the embodiment of one's will. Everyone has haki but you have to learn to use it. One in a million people have CoC. A will to conquer all others...even death. And hear me out.

I believe that CoC users have the power to conquer death and even devil fruits i.e. awakening. At the moment of zoros death he saw a grim reaper, shortly after confirming and feeding CoC into Enma and lived to tell the tale. Becoming a devil who has conquered death. Now a candidate to have his will reincarnated in the form of a devil fruit.

Roger said he wasn't going to die, not really. That his Will was going to live on. He left all of everything that he has at laughtale. Before he dies he whispers into a young Shank's ear, something that makes him cry I may be gone but I will be with you again someday type of whisper

Joy boy couldn't fulfill his promise and liberate the world from the Cdrags. He died before he could fulfill his promise but he says his will will live on.

NIKA NIKA fruit was created and it gives the user the will and powers to be able to fulfill Nikas will/promise.

We learned that a powerful haki can nullify the effects of devil fruits. The haki or will of someone able to conquer the will of a former CoC user that has cheated death and passed on their will in the form of the devil fruit. Haki is connected to all things life, dfs vivre cards. Anything supernatural. It's the ki, Chakra or life force

Shanks and his crew do not have fruits...why? So he can have his trusted, strong crews all be candidates. Himself included to eat the fruit of Roger. A fruit that will have the power to be able to enact and fulfill the will and dream of roger...

Nika chose luffy to change the world. Luffy with CoC like a mother fucker that conquered death and awakened/conquered his fruits devil "joy boy" to be able to liberate the world from the celestial dragons. Shanks will eat Roger's fruit giving him the power to enact and fulfill Roger's dream helping his friend luffy accomplish the exact same dream. Because after all luffy would never be where he was or accomplish anything without the help of his friends.

[wild minnow]

Are u drug?

[radiant crown]

I think it's a great concept but it's unlikely Roger found the method to store his will in a fruit.

If there is a method it will likely be revealed by vegapunk

[pure raven]

Shanks won’t die, that’s for sure.

[hoary hatch]

That theory relies on so much hypotheticals, that I can't consider it likely. From story perspective, Law losing the Poneglyph rubbings is more likely, as it puts BB back in the race for Laugh Tale. Even giving the possibility that BB will make it to Laugh Tale before Luffy, which could elevate him to the position of biggest threat on the planet, which from story pov would put the protagonists in the "darkest moment before the dawn" situation where they have to beat up BB in order for Luffy to become the pirate king and achieve his dream. Note that I am also theorizing here, it might take several chapters before we see how Law vs BB battle ended, since Vegapunk storyline will likely be in the focus for a while now.

[fleet quest]

In the case that BB takes the poneglyph rubbings, He might go to raftel before luffy and meet shanks there, as we saw shanks about to make his move. They might have a clash there that might lead to some interesting outcomes.

[left gulch]

i think luffy biggest aim is make the whole world one contininent
dats pretty much it

[hard pine]

na i dont think so

[left gulch]

ok

[pure raven]

It's a dream within his dream i'd say. I think his main goal is to help his crew achieve their dreams. So the continent dream would align with Sanji's dream there for making it the all blue, Luffy's dream tho, is something which I've got no clue... Maybe meat island?

[hoary hatch]

So far all we know about this secret dream is that: a) Luffy needs to become the Pirate King in order to make the dream achievable. b) He seems to have shared this dream with Roger (unless I am misremembering things, but didn't Yamato comment on Luffy's words being the same as the ones that Roger said to Oden? Also the facial reactions from Luffy's brothers and crew hearing the dream mimic reactions of people like Oden hearing Roger's dream.) c) Luffy has a weird concept of what being a pirate king means, considering it to be "the man with the most freedom." That last bit tells me that Luffy's dream requires more than just "wealth, power and fame" if he needs to be the pirate king in order to advance towards the dream.

[feral pike]

Luffy’s dream is to buy the world with one piece and make the food free

[left gulch]

the reason i say to make the whole a country is because he always told everywhere he went i will see dem again meaning its not a goodbye forever and hes visited soooo many places so it would make sense if all of dem came togather and lived in one land mass another reason is when he combines all the places in earth and makes one large continent all the water formed is the all blue(which is sanjis dream finding the all blue)id think u find the allblue i think the all blue is smthin dat is achieved when this happens another thing is jinbes dream of having fishman and humans live in peace if the whole world is a continent then they would basically have to live in peace meaning racism as a whole could be liberated and for nami to draw the map of a world after he becomes pirate king he becomes free and he wouldve basically travelled the whole world and if nami had constructed the whole world map luffy would use it to the make the large continent with all the races and humans and people he visited.

[sly fjord]

I still think the One Piece treasure is the ability to make the world one piece again. That it's the hidden history the CD don't want anyone to know, that's part of the missing 100 years.

[willow oriole]

i agree

[ashen surge]

How does Skypiea relate to Nika

[pure raven]

I think bb went amazon lily to take boa as hostage

[night sierra]

Since momonosuke is probably Uranus, shiraoshi is poseidon, maybe pluton (that is stated to be able to destroy an island with one blast) is imu?

[honest flare]

pluton is also stated to be a ship
i don't think imu is a ship

[radiant crown]

I think you guys got them mixed up, Pluton is under Wano, so if Imu is controlling anything, its uranus

On the assumption that you meant "Momonosuke is Pluton", then perhaps its a ship that only one person can captain (being momonosuke), its certainly a concept.

[night sierra]

She might be controlling pluton then?

[honest flare]

not possible
its supposed to be hidden in wano

[night sierra]

Shi forgot about that detail

[snow mauve]

What if the One Piece is Uranus? Blackbeard gets to Raftel first and plans on using the weapon to kill everyone? Luffy defeats Blackbeard, the king of the pirates, and claims the title.

[night sierra]

Why would Roger laugh about Uranus

[snow mauve]

He found what could topple the world government but he can’t do anything because he’s dying

I dunno I’m just guessing

[candid stratus]

There's a theory about how the ancient weapons are essentially made up out of three parts. We also need to keep in mind that we call them weapons but we don't really know if they are weapons per say. Since we know Shirahoshi is supposed to be Poseidon. There's also the sea kings she can control and Noah that they can move and it's all interconnected. Same goes for the others. Example of what it could be is Momo as Pluton, Zunesha as the thing he can control and then whatever is under Wano right now. Same pattern could apply to Uranus

[snow mauve]

I’m a little behind, is it okay for you to tell me why Momo is Pluton?

[night sierra]

Cuz he can use zenuisha

[radiant crown]

Pluton is supposedly a warship beneath Wano.

But as we know Shirahoshi is poseidon, it seems possible atleast that "Pluton" could be Momo that controls this hidden "battleship"

I've also suggested a while ago that what is beneath Wano could simply be battle armor for Zunesha.

[night sierra]

Makes sense, also Idk if y'all watched the "the biggest one piece theory ever made" but he said that the creature in the florian triangle is another creature of zenuisha's race

[snow mauve]

I used to have an idea of the World Government secretly being a pirate crew from 800 years ago that took over the planet.

[radiant crown]

A youtuber did a video on that theory

#manga-serious message

check out that message i posted here a while back

[snow mauve]

The One Piece just being the truth that the World Government was pirates, leading to a final war arc freeing the world of the government.

[modest skiff]

@night sierra no other series references please

[night sierra]

shi ma bad

[modest skiff]

No worries just letting you know

[whole needle]

i think enel will come back to take uranus to the moon because of his ideology that it belongs there

[primal cargo]

The "World Government" was formed out of the alliance of 20 kingdoms, so I don't think it makes sense to say it was a pirate crew itself, but the Navy being born of a pirate crew is a very cool idea that I think has quite a decent chance to be true

[rain quiver]

That explains why people like Sakazuki and Garp were defiant at times toward the World Government, though I really don't think they originated as a pirate crew

[primal cargo]

The newly formed government needed a military force to enforce its rule, so you could imagine they kinda made an offer to any interested pirate crews to join them, or something like that

[dim drum]

I think there's really some juice to the idea that Laughtale will be hidden inside an Island Whale. So far, at the beginning and middle of the Grand Line, we've met both a Roger Pirate and Island Whale(s). I think this will hold true for the end too.

At the beginning, at Reverse Mountain, we meet Crocus and Laboon.

At the middle, we meet Rayleigh at Sabaody and see a school of Island Whales after leaving FMI.

I think at the end, we will meet Scopper Gaban at Lodestar and will find out that Laughtale is hidden in an ancient Island Whale.

I think Roger had these three do this to keep tabs on crews in search for the contenders that will follow in the Roger Pirates' footsteps.

Crocus settling inside Laboon to treat him could have been inspired by Laughtale's location in this theory.

I also think this could also serve as a nice parallel to the first Road Poneglyph we find being hidden on a ancient animal in Zunesha.

[modest skiff]

Did someone big post a whale theory recently? Seen people discussing it more lately. As a reminder, HardRocker is the GOAT for the Whale Theory

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6MFrmTWlCTo&t=1s

Luffy stretched before he knew he ate a devil fruit and before anyone else knew he did

[dim drum]

I saw a YTer called Dak's Sake discuss it recently. I'll def make sure to check this video out tho.

[rain quiver]

People post the craziest theories online

[modest skiff]

It sounds like Dak stole HardRocker's idea

[dim drum]

It was just part of his grander theory and he mentions that the base idea of Laughtale being inside an Island Whale isn't his original idea

[dim drum]

https://youtu.be/57TBd8_1E9Y He connects the idea to Long Ring Long Land. I don't agree with every part of the theory but the video as a whole presents some interesting and fun ideas.

[modest skiff]

I'll check it out. HardRocker makes the same connection. His video is worth watching too

@steady prism @primal cargo @ashen surge I am in the process of updating the pins for this channel since I want to rework how we organize it. You guys have posted stuff recently, but it is hard for me to find it, so if you guys have anything you want pinned, please reach out to me.

This applies to other people as well. if you have posted long, detailed theories recently (a few paragraphs), please reach out to me and I will pin them

I'm going to just cruise through this channel to find any big theories and add them, but that's a lot of scrolling, so anyone who reads this, please find them for me

[modest skiff]

I think the reason there are 4 red glyphs is that they represent x,y,z,t coordinate equations. It describes the migratory pattern of the Whale King, who I think will turn out to be related to Laboon

[dim drum]

I really like that idea. It would honestly be a really cool way for Oda to subvert expectations of Laughtale being a legit island while giving us a reason why Roger is the only one to have found it.

[ashen surge]

Thanks for keeping me in mind but I think only the now pinged kaido thing is worth a ping but I could write up some meat on more my conversational inputs

[modest skiff]

Would love to see some fleshed out structure to your thoughts Keturin

[fading kraken]

So, when in marineford, aokiji and Kizaru were blasting Law's submarine, Shanks was using his haki to block there observation haki so that they can't directly target them. Cool. Cool. Very cool.

[vagrant violet]

i still stand by the fact that shanks will find the one piece first, but the words that roger gave to shanks was that he was to be the defender of the one piece/laugh tale until someone worthy (luffy) arrives and fights him. might be a reach but his sword's name is called the gryphon which can be referred to the mythological beast griffin (peter). usually, the griffin is known to protect a treasure

[ashen surge]

I like that, I posted a theory back in spring how I think Shanks is actually the last Poneglyph but it's pretty outdated. @modest skiff I had completely forgotten about this but maybe there's some good stuff there still.

[primal cargo]

Here is mine #manga-theories message

[candid stratus]

Wait you might be onto something With all the theories that the Davy back fight would make a reappearance this makes a lot of sense too. I always assumed that if they had a davy back fight it would be for the straw hat. But it could also be for the treasure now that you've pointed that detail out.

[wintry coral]

what do y’all think will be black beard next fruit? if he even gets another one and if yes, probably a zoan right?

imo he will get kaidou's just because it makes sense like he got the fruit of the “strongest man in the world” and it would make sense for him to get the fruit of the “strongest creature” since he’s been getting all of the strongest fruits and he studied about them

[iron current]

i think he already has 3 fruits because if he gets one now, he has no time to get used to it really because we are in the endgame and as we can see with Momo, sure BB is older and more experiences but that doestn mean he can easily control the powers of the fruit

[wintry coral]

that’s a pretty good point actually but i think that it would have more impact if he had a already know fruit but it’s also not likely, what do u think is the third fruit? i would love to see somethings that’s the completely opposite of luffy or something like that yk?

[shrewd haven]

yall seen the theory of law being with drake and them making up a plan to run into blackbeard ?

[iron current]

yeah i get what you mean and obviously he could just get one now and even without having full control, having 3 powers would be pretty strong anyway, but i always liked the idea of him having the cerberus fruit or something like that

[iron current]

interesting idea, not impossible but BB going down here would feel a bit weird without Luffy involved at all

[primal cargo]

Cool idea, Sengoku and Garp are both retired though. Best I can do is Drake and one admiral

[ashen surge]

Retirement is as good cover story as defecting the marines

[west summit]

It's a possible theories, better than saying law gon die in this fight

[west summit]

Won't this be just another zou situation then?

[pure raven]

i don’t think bb will kill law but he will definitely capture him and use him to get to luffy just like koby

[primal cargo]

Hm but we know for a fact that each individual Road Pon indicates a location. There's no room for this equation stuff unless we're retconning the already retconned workings of Laugh Tale research

[hard pine]

naw man law devil fruit he deffo gonan take it

[shrewd haven]

@hard pine @pure raven why u laughing bozos

[hard pine]

its nothing theory sounds good but doubt sengoku and garp both gonna show up and dont mind thae reaction

[shrewd haven]

l0l im joking i didnt even come up with it i saw it on tiktok and thought it was a good theory and also with the hints for this weeks chapter its looking positive

[hard pine]

where are those hints coud u dm me those pls it would be appriciated

[neon shoal]

Does anyone believe reason why zunisha let momo command zunisha’s because kozuki family’s a direct descendant of joyboy due to zunisha being companion of joyboy and maybe zunisha only commands to joyboy’s descendants.

[honest flare]

Idk if they are direct descendants or not but we know for sure the blank century has something to do with the kozukis and closing off land of wano so it could just be the kozuki family was clos to or worked under joyboy just like zunesha and thats why he also listens to them. But them being direct descendants could be true too

[neon shoal]

Honestly if joyboy was member of kozuki clan , possibly head of kozuki clan and shogun of wano then it would explain of how joyboy was able to get kozuki clan to make poneglyths by using joyboy’s own resources to create a personal document and reason why kaido chose wano is because kaido knew joyboy from wano which could give a clue pf not only pluton location but also hints pf joyboy and void century without going to laugh tale

Also big mom must have also realize that joyboy from wano as well which could hold hints about joyboy and void century

[neon shoal]

Yeah that could be reason too

[pure raven]

Its funny to me how the person who made the theory basically makes his own headcanon like law healing Drake and says random shit like drake telling law that BB would ambush one of the 3 captains like he'd know for some reason and pulls garp and sengoku lol like what

[hoary hatch]

There is so little that we know of the blank century, the birth of the World Government, the faction(s) that the 20 kingdoms defeated to become the WG or even how was Joyboy connected to all this. For all we know, it might be that Joyboy was on the side of the 20 kingdoms, rather than the unknown ancient kingdom. Heck, Joyboy might have switched sides during the war and that may have been the deciding factor, but then regretted this and that is why they had the poneglyhps made and tried to prevent the WG from erasing history. Or maybe Joyboy fought against the 20 kingdoms and lost. At this point, we have to wait for more information because otherwise everything is a guess. Like, the three ancient weapons for one. We know that one of them is the mermaid princess (or she inherited the ability that the original weapon had, to be more precise), we know that one of them is hidden on Wano (and that Franky burnt the blueprints of it), but is the third one the one that Im uses to destroy that kingdom where Sabo (possibly) was on? Or is the third ancient weapon something we haven't even seen yet? And since Lunarians were supposedly on the Red Line before, did the WG displace them or is this just a coincidence and the Lunarians lived on a completely different part of the Red Line? I really dislike theories about the Void century simply because with how little we know, it is way to easy to start from a silly conclusion and make the few known pieces of data fit the theory. Maybe after the next time Oda gives us info about the Void Century, we can figure out something solid...

[velvet lava]

What if the entire one piece story is a dream, Imu has the Dream Dream Fruit and already has Tsukuyomi type affect over the world. Looking at chapter 1 ever since luffy ate the fruit everything he has imagined has came to fruition? Thats why Imu lives in fear of the Nika Fruit, its the only fruit thats ables to to defeat a dream is your imagination

[grave solstice]

The fight between Law and Blackbeard wont end well

[grave solstice]

The reason being Blackbeard has 2 devil 1 that cancels out other fruit users when he touches them and the 2nd one being extremely powerful yeah Law awakened his devil fruit but he has no idea how strong BB is and if Law manages to beat BB he then has to fight all the other BB members so he'll most likely die and if he does when news gets out about it Luffy will not be happy he's going to rush into battle to fight BB and his crew and its going to be an all out battle. Plus BB is farming DF and if law dies and gets his fruit taken away its going to be a lot worse then anyone can imagine

[velvet lava]

law aint dying hes endgame material 100%, oda setting up BB to get kaidou pone here , by some way law gets his ass beat loses the pone rubbing but escapes/gets captured

[candid stratus]

I'm sure it won't be that simple. It's been said that in order to properly use the ope ope no mi you need to have advanced medical knowledge. There also isn't anyone on BB crew that would eat that df. The only members for whom we don't know if they have a df or not are Vasco Shot and Avalo Pizzaro. None of them strike me as the smartest. Law also kind of has plot armour but I do agree it's nearly if not impossible for him to win against BB and company. Either someone else will appear and side with Law, or he will do some soul swap shenanigans and somehow get away

[velvet lava]

soul swap on blackbeard would be super fucking interesting!

[modest skiff]

This seems based on the idea that Luffy was informed of his DF prior to it showing its power, but that is not true.

[velvet lava]

great point, but df have will of their own, could something be at play here will still are unaware of

[grave solstice]

That zoan dfs

[grave solstice]

Well I don’t expect anyone on BBS crew to be very smart other than BB but if law died BB would take his df because you have to remember he farming dfs and gathering more pirates

[steady prism]

People have hypothesized for some time that Geopositioning can help explain why 4 locations (i.e. Road Poneglyphs) are needed to find a single location (x, y, z) (i.e. Laugh Tale) in OP. Geopositioning is an IRL concept used by ships for oceanic navigation. This, I believe, is the basis of our retconned collective understanding/assumption as to why 4 Road Poneglyphs will help the SHs reach Laugh Tale.

Here's a quick example on how geopositioning works:

in a 2D survey, you need observations from 3 reference points to compute a position in the 2D plane (i.e. (x, y) ).

Similarly, in a 3D survey, you need observations from 4 reference points to compute a position in the 3D plane (i.e. (x, y, z) ). So, assuming that this is the single normal thing about the Grand Line, these reference points are represented by the Road Poneglyph's decrypted locations and the 3D position is the location of Laugh Tale. Of course, all of what was said above is true assuming all 4 locations are stationary.

If, however, even one of these locations is moving (e.g. a migration of island whales), then Laugh Tale, the intersection, is by default moving. Nami could then flex her navigator skills and find a way to predict where Laugh Tale will be located by the time they get in the general area. That's where the "t" comes from in (x, y, z, t).

tl;dr: there are two camps of thought:

1. if someone wishes to believe that Laugh Tale is in an island whale, then this means that they believe that at least one of the locations on the Road Poneglyph is not stationary, leading to a position of (x, y, z, t).

2. if someone wishes to believe that Laugh Tale is a stationary island, then this means that they believe that every location is stationary, leading to a single position of (x, y, z).

Imho, both ideas are valid in my eyes until we learn more about how Nami/Robin plan to use the Road Poneglyphs to find Laugh Tale. Sorry for the rant. Hope this makes sense.

[steady prism]

An open-ended question/idea like this is better suited in #manga-serious . Please read the channel’s description

[fair vine]

Considering there are 4 phoneglyps. 4 dimensions, which is x, y, z, t is probably more valid.

[worthy shard]

https://youtu.be/YI8nLaSGUAw

[steady prism]

If you're linking a theory, please summarize the theory's premise/claim as well as some of the reasoning/evidence behind the claim so that it can help foster better discussions here.

[steady prism]

But the point is it takes 3 reference points to make a 2D position and it takes 4 reference points to make a 3D position. There is no 4D fix just because we have 4 Poneglyphs. It's not a one-to-one thing.

However, if one reference point is moving, we can use that to estimate the t value.

[steady prism]

!theories @pure raven read the channel's description

[lone hedge]

Please refrain from using manga-theories for joke theories, casual chit-chat, power scaling, bounty predictions or low-effort memes. This channel is for serious discussion- please read the channel description. Posts here must be in paragraph form, preferably with evidence, not just a one line open question.

[snow mauve]

Holy shit

[unique hornet]

good point bro

[primal cargo]

I see that does make a little more sense.
But, if I'm not mistaken, geopositioning relies on an observation of the distance between the object and each reference point. As in, GPS uses an EM signal to determine your distance to each satellite and computes your position from that. Are we saying that the Road Pons contain a "distance to Laugh Tale" value in addition to the coordinates of its corresponding location ?
If that's the case, a moving LT would have to stay at the exact same distance of every reference point all the time, which is basically not possible unless all points are constantly moving the same way all the time

Basically what are we calling "observation" here ?

[candid stratus]

If LT is a moving object then it's very unlikely that the poneglyphs tell us the distance from it since it would be impossible for the text on the poneglyphs to change (unless there's some ancient technology we are not privy to). it would work however if three told us the location of where they will be and the fourth tell the time of when they will be there. That time could simply be "every full moon" or whatever. since island whales constantly migrate and they do so at very precise times. Even whales irl act the same so it's not a stretch. I think it's not likely that there is any distance from poneglyphs that is relevant since #1 they can be moved by anyone and #2 some are always on the move Like the one on Zunesha. Everything just becomes way too complex at that point. If that were true then in order for this to be a possible calculation the poneglyphs would have to be always moving in relation to one another which just couldn't really work unless there was some serious magic involved.

[primal cargo]

To be clear the Poneglyphs still describe a certain location in the world, so in this hypothetical "distance to LT" scenario it would be the distance between LT and the location described.

[candid stratus]

Was that ever stated? If it was then yes it would work like you said but I don't really think it was ever confirmed to be like that

[primal cargo]

And here is the explanation of Inuarashi, who was on Roger's ship when they had two Road Pons.
Now this explanation could be "corrected" to something other than a plain cross between the four points, but at the very least we know for an absolute fact that the Zou Poneglyph describes a location, and almost certainly those from Big Mom and from Fishman Island as well.

[icy estuary]

Y'all realize the lil girl saved by fisher tiger and the girl from revolutionary army are the same right?

[pure raven]

yh koala

[rotund maple]

Just like how luffy took the will of roger, Blackbeard took the will of rocks. And the finale will probs be luffy +shanks or koby vs blackbeard. Just like how roger teamed up with garp to defeat rocks

[tall shale]

New theory the original Vega punk is black beard

[candid stratus]

I think we're having a bit of a misunderstanding right now haha. Obviously they describe a location my point is that the location described is LT itself. So as far as I understand the information on the poneglyphs is used to pinpoint one location which is LT. What would that location described be other than LT? Again having it be distance to LT just does not work in any practical sense. It could just be that it's 4 coordinates on the map and if you literally connect them the lines cross and that's where LT is. However since we are not aware of what the info on the fourth poneglyph is, it could turn out it has the time "coordinate". Which in my head canon still makes the most sense but alas could not go that way.

the problem is we haven't gotten any real insight on how finding LT will actually work. All the diagrams and everything Oda drew about it indicates that the poneglyphs each have a set of coordinates. If you connect them where they cross is LT. But I really think that's not literally how it will work. There has to be a catch to it, otherwise people would stumble upon it for sure.

[primal cargo]

We agree that at least 3 of the 4 Road Poneglyphs describe a certain individual location, i.e a certain point on the map (that is different for each Poneglyph).
If the 4th one is different and has time-related information, then we need to be able to determine the position of Laugh Tale with only 3 sets of coordinates, for 3 points on the map (since we can't make a cross with only 3 points).

What I was saying is, if we want to follow Bec's "geopositioning" theory, then we would need to know the distance between Laugh Tale and each of the 3 points, because that is what geopositioning relies on.

[digital apex]

I can get 2 points and then find the laugh tale because there would be only 2 available locations for it
P.S. actually I think I'm not right

[digital apex]

that's what I said to my friend like, a month ago

[candid stratus]

That's all true. What I meant is that we don't actually know if each poneglyph has a set of coordinates that point to a location. Maybe there's only X coordinate on one, Y coordinate on another etc. Nami only said using this we could identify a location. She doesn't mention the method of doing it. What you're saying if I understand you is that we know each poneglyph has xyz coordinates for different locations. I'm saying that isn't 100% true or rather we just don't know yet.

At that point they only had 2 poneglyphs. She knows there's four so if my theory on there only being one coordinate on each she is smart enough to assume others have the rest of the coordinates and say it is possible to find a location when they have all of them.

[primal cargo]

But with "This stone marks a point, but that point is not Raftel" It couldn't be clearer. I just checked out the Japanese version and the translation is literal.
As for Nami she says "I can determine the location of something"

And that is just before Inu tells us that there are four of them. She clearly can identify a location with the script of this one stone.

It's poor quality but I'm pretty sure it says "何かの場所を特定できそえよ"
"何かの場所" = "location of something" is arguably even clearer, as you couldn't pinpoint to "something" with partial coordinates

[primal cargo]

The "cross" part is pretty much literal as well, he says "The other 3 stones have a respective point inscribed, and when you know these locations and you connect the dots, it will emerge in the middle"

(all amateur translation ofc feel free to correct me)

[candid stratus]

That is probably the most likely explanation if everything turns out to be literal.

[primal cargo]

Inu could technically be wrong since he never got to see the whole thing play out, probably all he knows is what Roger had before they got dropped off in Wano. So if one the Road Pons is different I think it has to be the Wano one.

[candid stratus]

Neither Robin or Nami have commented on the contents of the Wano poneglyph right?

[primal cargo]

Don't think so no

[candid stratus]

Maybe it's just wishful thinking since I really like the idea of laugh tale being hidden in an island whale. That theory is very solid and I'm mostly trying to argue how it would most likely work if LT was in fact moving. Just so you know I'm not disagreeing with everything you've said.

[primal cargo]

He did say "it will emerge" as in rise from the sea, so there's that.
It's always possible that there exists a method to determine the position from 3 points, and it's also possible that it's a whale that appears at the cross intersection, maybe with time-related information written somewhere

[candid stratus]

I don't care what happens as long as Nami has a badass moment where she goes 200iq and figures all this shit out and there's a big revelation.

[primal cargo]

Personally I don't have anything against the whale idea (except maybe that it could feel repetitive?), but the xyzt thing is imo a little too complicated and less symbolic than the cross
Yeah I agree on Nami there's bound to be something!

[candid stratus]

There literally being a cross on the map that indicates the treasure location is indeed very symbolic but there being a time coordinate would be a cool twist. I also don't really think the whale idea would be that repetitive. It happened once really and Oda is famous for the two sides of the coin theme.

[primal cargo]

Hm that's true especially since Laboon was at the very start of the Grand Line and LT is supposed to be the end where you "circumnavigate the world" whatever that means

[candid stratus]

One thing that I am confident in, is that Oda will somehow manage to surprise us. Not sure at what point for this matter but there will come a moment where none of us will be expecting it.

[worldly elbow]

This is what I think, prove me wrong otherwise.

Kuzan works for Eustass Captain Kid as a double agent. Kid definitely meant him as the man marked with flame, kid raided Big Moms castle and was able to injure cracker, he definitely wouldn't have escaped that hell hole without the help of someone as strong as big mom, Kuzan helped kid escape whole cake island

Edit: latest chapter shows Kuzan kidnapped Pudding, and that is probably the same reason why Kid went to Whole cake island in the first place, because of pudding

[candid stratus]

Why the hell would Kuzan be working for Kid?

[steady prism]

I think you’ve hit the crux of the issue with this theory: how does one make an “observation” in the Grand Line?

There are IRL examples of landmarks that sailors can use as reference points to make these observations: a light house, stars/constellations, and satellites. But without an analogous equivalent in the OP world, we’re just digging ourselves in a deeper hole trying to fit IRL ideas into OP. This is why I figured we’d wait until Robin and Nami go over how they’ll find these 4 locations. Geopositioning helps explain why we need 4 locations to find Laugh Tale, but that’s it.

[steady prism]

LT can still be a moving island if the migration patterns of the island whale (that has LT) is in sync with one of the Road Pon locations. It’s a big ask but not completely impossible. This applies with or without the Geopositioning concept btw.

[elder tide]

hey ok so please hear me out, this is my "origins of the devil fruits" theory.
idk if anyone thought about it or anything but I just did a little digging around and saw something (yea I know that I might be late to discover it just now but still)
so basically what lead me to this theory were the mythical fruits. "why them?"
basically I dug around and found out about the brother and sister gods in japanese mythology. izanami and izanagi, their full name might sound something familiar to you: izanami-no-mikoto and izanagi-no-mikoto. yes I straight up thought about the "no mi" part of the devil fruits name. izanagi is the god of creation and life, while izanami is the god of creation and death, which for what I assume, means that they are responsible for every soul that dies if they decide that they are strong-willed enough, will be reincarnated as a devil fruit.
Izanami and Izanagi are the progenitors of many deities, but the two of them that I focused on were Amaterasu the sun goddess and Tsukuyomi the moon deity. If you heard more rumors recently you probably know that what I'm trying to say is that per the rumors, Luffy has the sun god's (Nika) powers - which in japanese mythology is Amaterasu, and Blackbeard has the moon god's (unknown yet) powers - which in japanese mythology is Tsukuyomi, which means that both of them are Izanami and Izanagi's so called "sons". A battle between them at the near end of the series has been debated and discussed about in some parts of the one piece community, and if it happens, my theory is that whoever wins the fight might be able to gain the power over the sun and moon, good and evil, life and death, and might be even able to join the gods of the One Piece universe and create new devil fruits.
But, Izanami and Izanagi also had intercourse and had their own child, called Hiruko. Hiruko was a deformed child, also called as "Leech Child", and his parents has set him adrift in a boat. Now since most mythical fruits had honored parts of Japanese Mythology (as far as I know), I believe that as the only son to both gods of creation, life, and death, Hiruko will also earn his place in the series as a devil fruit. Hiruko is the god of fisherman and luck, so I'm having a hard time thinking about what he can be in the series.
Also, some say Hiruko is connected to the spirits because "Ru" refers to spirits, but that might just be an odd loose end.
What are your opinions?

[snow finch]

pretty cool theory ngl

[primal cargo]

If the method to locate LT from 3 points relies on distances (with those distances written somewhere I assume?), then I don't see how it can, since the distances between LT and the fixed points would vary. That's why I don't see the geopositioning thing working

[steady prism]

If LT is assumed to be moving, then its distance from those 3 stationary points will vary by default (ignoring the 4th point). That doesn’t conflict with geopositioning unless I’m missing something.

If we assume LT is fixed, then it makes sense to assume it’s distance from the other 3 stationary points is also fixed.

[primal cargo]

No but geopositioning relies on knowing/measuring the object's (Laugh Tale) distance to the reference points (the RP locations). If you don't know these distances there's no point in knowing the reference points.

[steady prism]

I agree up to a certain point. So if LT is indeed a moving position and 3 reference points are stationary, Nami would need to predict (e.g. understand migration patterns, w/e it is) how the 4th reference point moves over time to estimate where LT is located at a given time.

[lament cave]

I believe that the fight between bb and law, and bbs plan for the future, will mirror syrup village strongly
Kidnapping pudding and hypnotizing her for treasure=hypnotizing kaya for her will (laffitte is a hypnotist, which is another connection, as we've only seen one other hypnotist in the show)

captain kuro of a thousand plans = bbs extreme tendency to plan things to a T, since the beginning of the series

kuro having no regard for his own crew, mirroring how the bb crew has no real connections, just like the rocks pirates

Kuro was constantly troubled by marines, and pretty much the restlessness and lack of peace of mind is what drove him, so maybe blackbeards inability to sleep causes him extreme discomfort and is one of the main drivers for his goal, in the picture for him not sleeping he doesnt look very happy about it lmao

definitely iffy and not a complete theory, but i think it may end up getting added to as we see more of blackbeards actions, just an in the moment thought

strongest thing that'd support this is if we see someone defending the wrong front and blackbeard attacked from the other side, hoping that's part of the rocky port incident.

[primal cargo]

Sure, but how are we learning the distances ? Are they written somewhere? But that's not possible if they're varying..
And this is all still relying on the idea that one of the Road Pons is different from the others and doesn't point to a location, which imho is very unlikely to be the case
Like I said earlier, the whale idea is great but this whole construction with the four coordinates feels convoluted and unlikely compared to the simple and cool cross intersection method that we've been explained in the manga.

[lament cave]

it shouldnt be too hard

x y and z describe original location, t describes trajectory
which may explain why roger was too early, because it wasnt far enough along on its trajectory yet

[modest skiff]

^One theory that I also liked, thought Whale King is the best, is that Laugh Tale is on a comet

But they reached laugh tale, so do you mean the one piece? Not clear what you mean

[lament cave]

they could figure out where it was at their time based on trajectory, since all they had to do is plug in their time, but it wasnt close enough to the location it needed to be which would be another 20 years

itd be a simple equation, just direction its heading, speed its heading at, and then time since it started travelling, so anyone at any moment could find it, it just might not be in the right spot yet

[woeful forge]

Jaguar D Saul
Jaguar D Sol
Jaguar D Sun

Jaguar, D Son

this is just a fun thing probably nothing but i do believe in the Jaguar Binks theory and this kinda supports it considering oda loves his wordplay

[modest skiff]

Can you elaborate on the jaguar binks theory @woeful forge

[woeful forge]

oh sure it's p/ simple; the first idea is that
The D clan are all descendants of JoyBoy's crew (the Dawn crew)

Jaguar D Saul, a giant not from elbaf, is a direct relative to JoyBoy (who we must assume is a giant given the giant frozen strawhat); JB's moniker is from his initials: J.B.
Jaguar Binks "Joy Boy"

[modest skiff]

[woeful forge]

im not sure how this could correlate to luffy/garp/roger's family

but bear in mind that saul was/is 105 years old; and JoyBoy could have plenty of other ancestors wherein the giant genes were lost to the ages

it's also entirely possible that luffy isnt a direct ancestor to joy boy at all. one of the first lines in the series is "Inherited Will"

he could be a descendant of the first officer or any other crew member;

tho the devil fruit almost certainly was joyboy's (or is him?)

[spiral yoke]

Guys here’s a theory what if law gets the upper hand and manages to attack BB from the inside (since he has better Haki) he steals his heart and this is where it’s revealed BB has 3 hearts. And by stealing his heart law also nullifies one of BB devil fruits

[modest skiff]

Theories - Sorted in Descending Order (Newest are at the top) - DM/@ Mohdoo to have your theory added

Mother Nature and Visitors from the Heavens
#manga-theories message
@fallow gale

S Flamingo could be the "Traitor"
#manga-theories message
@low swallow

Luffy's Dream
#manga-theories message
@modest skiff

The Moon is Uranus
#manga-theories message
@modest skiff

ONE PIECE - DAWN OF A REVOLUTION
#manga-theories message
@ashen surge

An Ancient Fuel: The Eternal Flame of One Piece
@gentle lily
#manga-theories message

Lilith is working with the Blackbeard pirates?
@primal cargo
#manga-theories message

Blackbeard Pirates at Egghead!!
@primal cargo
#manga-theories message

How to grow a Devil Fruit - A Horticultural Theory
@red anvil
#manga-theories message

Evan's Theory About Imu, The Gorosei, Seraphim, Marines, and Final War!!
@gloomy canyon
#manga-theories message

Bonney Inherits Vegapunk's Will
@primal cargo
#manga-theories message

The Significance of Eye Rings
@analog sun
#manga-theories message

The Void Century and The Will of The D
@placid shoal
https://discordapp.com/channels/164970986284777473/477571830941614080/1052358383820357704

Binks Sake
@placid shoal
https://discordapp.com/channels/164970986284777473/477571830941614080/1052403225627742260

Logias might not be devil fruits
@red anvil
https://discordapp.com/channels/164970986284777473/477571830941614080/1053533315145158726

The Void Century
@modest skiff
https://discordapp.com/channels/164970986284777473/477571830941614080/1055005255798095892

Devil Fruits: Why the Devil Fruits Always Respawn
@lapis swift
https://discordapp.com/channels/164970986284777473/477571830941614080/1052743830677491763

An analysis on Kuzan, a prediction of my own, and why it makes little sense for him to be a SWORD member
@dark palm
#manga-theories message

The Enormous Kingdom
@primal cargo
#manga-theories message

Origins of the Devil Fruit
@elder tide
#manga-theories message

Geopositioning
@steady prism
#manga-theories message

The Whales of One Piece: Why Laugh Tale is in a Whale
@gentle lily
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6MFrmTWlCTo&t=1s

Clickbait title by original poster so I am not writing it as a matter of principle
Explanation by: @mellow mountain
#manga-theories message
https://youtu.be/57TBd8_1E9Y

Rocks Didn't Die
@wind bone
#manga-theories message

Vegapunk Is The Burn Scar Man
@wind bone
#manga-theories message

[candid stratus]

First of we have no idea how strong BBs haki is, but in reality he doesn't need stronger haki. It just has to be roughly of the same level. I'm sure there will be some new information on BBs weird body. There's no time better than having the fan favorite doctor examine him mid battle.

[rotund maple]

I mean it’s very likely and would be the one to make the most sense

[weak arrow]

That's exactly what I think will happen, so yes

[gentle robin]

i dont think kaidou is scared of death though so i dont know if big moms ability will work on him

[primal cargo]

Well may I direct you to this #manga-theories message

I sure wouldn't mind a late BMKK reveal in Elbaf
Kaido and Big Mom have exited the realm of relevance, but they will have one opportunity to come back to the spotlight when we eventually address God Valley.

I also think Elbaf will be the scene of the final war, so that would be a perfect time for Big Mom to briefly come back and get whopped

[gentle robin]

Ahh thanks i didnt know that theory already existed

It is true God Valley hasnt been addressed enough so itd be nice if that happened during Kaidous death or Elbaf
I hope we get to see it soon tho coz i rlly cba to wait a lot to see Kaidou rlly die

[candid stratus]

we may not see more of Kaido now, but I think we'll definitely get some kind of God Valley flashback that we missed out on. Probably because if we got it in Wano it would spill the beans on some other characters too soon. so we'll just have to wait and see.

[gentle robin]

Yee true, i caught up yesterday and its just weird to wait now
Ig ill have to get used to it

[primal cargo]

Yeah. I thought Rocks & God Valley would be a topic for near the end of Wano (maybe some kind of parallel with the battle in Wano), and relied on that to theorize that we'd learn more about Kaido and that it would make BMKK possible.
Since God Valley was not in fact addressed in Wano, it would make sense for it to be a parallel to the final war. And that with it will come some endgame revelations

[candid stratus]

welcome to the club

[candid stratus]

Now that we know Shanks was found on god valley we are bound to learn more about that at some point. Would make sense if that included more backstory for Kaido to solidify him as the villain

[gentle robin]

@young herald

[pure raven]

Not my theroy but whatever. What if law managed to take bbs heart but then he figures out he has like 3 hearts or something

[quaint tangle]

I feel like luffy and shanks are gonna go to Aces grave after akainu and blackbeard are put down

In terms of huge long flashbacks left in one piece. I think we got about 2 left. Flashbacks that will be 10 chapter+

Rocks flashback
Joyboys flashback

Rocks flashback will show us everything we wanted to know about the buildup to the current era. And joyboys will show the formation of the ancient kingdom

I just don't want to be on are way to laughtale and not know the flashbacks of most characters by then

Rocks flashback will act as a origin story for most relevant characters.

Roger, wb, garp, blackbeard, big mom, shining, sengoku, tsuru.

[quaint tangle]

God valley should highlight the characters in the following in terms of screentime.

1. Rocks
2. Garp
3. Roger
4. Wang/john/silver axe.
5. Shiki.
6. Wb and rest of yonko

[steady prism]

Could you elaborate? Typically in this channel, we request that people add a few sentences of evidence/reasoning to their ideas. Otherwise, this would be better put in #manga

!theories @neon shoal @hoary cargo both of you brought up interesting questions, but this isn't the right channel for that. Please use #manga-serious for any serious open-ended questions like those moving forward.

[lone hedge]

Please refrain from using manga-theories for joke theories, casual chit-chat, power scaling, bounty predictions or low-effort memes. This channel is for serious discussion- please read the channel description. Posts here must be in paragraph form, preferably with evidence, not just a one line open question.

[peak plover]

I think the one piece is a gateway to a different timeline. I don't think anyone has made any timeline theories yet.

[formal hollow]

no chance

[peak plover]

I think the disease that roger had was actually an affect of the doppelganger effect. perhaps roger was in a timeline where Xebec was actually the good version and of xebec. This could've led Garp to let ace die since ace was a mixed timeline person, he was probably informed by Im-sama

[peak plover]

why not 😭

[loud wyvern]

On the evidence level, there's just a lot of holes and zero-evidence assumptions:

1. The doppelganger effect - never once been mentioned in One Piece.
2. Timelines and different versions of people - Again, never mentioned. One piece is all about the passage of time, and all devil fruits related to time either slow it (Foxy) or jump it (Toki). No backwards, no skipping between timelines. So unless that's explicitly proven, that's a major assumption that it even exists.
3. Garp let ace die because being a mixed timeline person - from the story it's clear that Garp absolutely did not want Ace to die, but was forced by his position in the Marines.
4. Garp being informed by Im-sama to let Ace die - Im is a celestial dragon, Garp didn't even want to become an admiral because he didn't want to take orders directly from celestial dragons.

The simple answer though is: theming.

The big themes in One Piece are inherited will and history (as well as freedom and justice, as well as found family).
A multiple timeline/crossed timeline would fly the face of that first theme - because, well, if there are multiple timelines maybe the void century didn't happen in a different timeline... so... what exactly?
Sabo inherits Ace's Will, Luffy inherits Roger's Will, Blackbeard (from his ship naming and origins, it appears to be somewhat explicit) has inherit Xebec's will. If Xebec, Roger or Ace were even tangentially related to a different timeline, I think it would cheapen the inherited will aspect. Those characters may have passed, but their will lives on, a will that spans back 900 years. If it were just a "will" that came from a different dimension... well, great, I guess history doesn't matter.

TL;DR - There is no evidence of timelines in One Piece, and Oda would've introduced them by now if they'd play such a large part in the story. Also, different timelines goes against the story's theme of inherit will and the importance of history.

Thank you for listening to my TED Talk.

[quaint tangle]

Inherited will is the main theme of one piece. Weapons,techniques,words,hats,symbols they are all inherited.
Sabo likely inherited the dragon claw and those words from dragon.
Sanji inherited his cooking and kicking techniques from zeff.
Inherited will isn't just limited to the morally good characters. Bb has inherited stuff. Likely from xebec. Shiryuu has inherited things. Akainu has inherited things.

Inherited will can be knowledge and techniques. Medical,cooking,craftsmanship

[loud wyvern]

The long and the short of it is: That's why I haven't seen any different timeline theories taken particularly seriously

[quaint tangle]

True.
Wb didn't always have the moby dick or Murokurogiri. Someone gave these things to wb. Roger didn't always have ace. Someone gave ace to roger. Shanks didn't always have that strawhat, Someone gave it to him.

Ace didn't always have his hat. Someone gave him the hat. Everyone inherits things. Oda just hasn't revealed where these people got it from

People pass things on to the next gen. Those are the words roger said in the background of that scene in logue town with dragon

If dragon passed this technique onto sabo. The same thing applys to dragon. Said technique would also have been passed to him. Dragon at one time was a kid like sabo.
Zeff passes on his cooking and kicks to sanji. Someone likely did the same for zeff. They taught him how to cook and fight.
Someone like sabo may see dragon like an old man. But to garp dragon is a brat.
To luffy dragon is his father. To garp dragon is his son.

To sabo dragon is his master. But to Someone else dragon is their disciple/apprentice

Someone's master is someone's disciple
Someone's father is Someone's son.

Ace looks up to wb. Wb also looks up to someone.
Luffy looks up to shanks. Shanks looks up to roger. Roger also looks up to someone.

Luffy received that strawhat at the start of the story. And at the end he is gonna give it to shanks kid. Makino is gonna bare witness to it. She saw luffy inherit the hat and she will see luffy pass it on

Zoro is chasing mihawk. But mihawk was also chasing someone

[modest skiff]

Cassius, these thoughts are a better fit for #manga-serious . Would be happy to discuss with you there, but this channel is more for long form theories

[quaint tangle]

👍

[fading viper]

!theories

[lone hedge]

Please refrain from using manga-theories for joke theories, casual chit-chat, power scaling, bounty predictions or low-effort memes. This channel is for serious discussion- please read the channel description. Posts here must be in paragraph form, preferably with evidence, not just a one line open question.

[fading viper]

@hallow ocean Don't make posts like that here please. Go ahead and read this.

[hallow ocean]

Sorry mb

[hard elbow]

Katakuri will return in one of the next chapters to rescue pudding and in that he will end up fighting with law vs Blackbeard, however it will be a temporary alliance bc law helped “kill” big mom. So once he has rescued pudding then they go their separate ways as enemies and save their fight for another day since they got injured/ beat up after rescuing pudding and defeating/ injuring blackbeard

[lime egret]

law and Blackbeard will definitely have something to do with each other

what if the coordinates to the one piece is behind the red ribbon (on the straw hat)

[west summit]

Keep this on #manga

[lime egret]

ok..

[wispy shell]

Actually this make a bit of sense. The strawhat itself might be a key to unlock the One Piece and/or the location of Raftel. Why else would there be a giant strawhat at mariejoa?

[lime egret]

FAX

[lavish snow]

What if kuma is the same race as Cavendish with two personalities, that’s why Bonney doesn’t recognize kuma as a tyrant, and kuma got surgery to get rid of that personality. We see kuma with no pupil which are the same as cavendish. Also it hasn’t been stated if cavendish sword possesses him

[novel scroll]

Kuma's special race might be one of the race that Big Mom is missing.
We know one of them is Giants, because Big Mom have bad relationship with Giants.
The second is Lunarian.
We still don't know the third one, so it might be Kuma's race.

[tulip dawn]

But isnt she missing sky people as well? Or I guess we just never saw any in the arc which is more likely and it makes more sense story wise for kuma to be the third lost race

[bright siren]

Also everytime we see or hear about how the enemies want to kill Luffy its always "take his head"

[quaint tangle]

No it's really not. Lunarian giant and kaidous race. That's 3. Oda adding this stuff about kuma being from a special race retcons his own manga. Nothing about his design is special, by that I mean he doesn't look non human at all. We even see the guy as a kid.

Since oda comfirmed that ulti and the rest of those horned guys are just human and only yamato and kaidou are oni.
Big mom could have tried to sleep with kaidou but she hasn't. Since it seems like she actually wanted to kaidou to be in her crew and sees him like a little brother

[primal cargo]

So Vegapunk has predicted his own death. But is that gonna be at the hands of CP0 ?
If you ask me, there's someone much more likely to be the one to kill him. The time has come for Bonney Kills Vegapunk !

[candid stratus]

That sounds rather unlikely. With how everything is going I'm confident we will learn what actually happened to Kuma and everything will make sense to Bonney in the end. She will probably turn her anger towards a common enemy the world government and go that way, probably ally with the straw hats or the revos.

[ashen surge]

I'm guessing what happened to Kuma was by his consent and some revo plot which VP will be able to explain to Bonney

[primal cargo]

Yeah, I was thinking he explains everything but also recognizes the harm he's done and would accept Bonney's revenge. Though it's true that it wouldn't be very One Piece for her to go through with the revenge after hearing everything.

[ashen surge]

Has there been a storyline in One Piece where a character has been able to let go of their black/white thinking regarding a certain subject when they've learned the whole truth?

[candid stratus]

Nami with fishmen maybe?

[ashen surge]

That's probably a lot more nuanced what I was thinking

[primal cargo]

That's kind of the classic arc for the inhabitants of a place. The citizens of Skypiea, Dressrosa, etc start with strong views towards one end and finish with the opposite views

[ashen surge]

Nami and fish-men: Pertaining distrust towards certain group of people because of your personal trauma and you just gotta heal that over time.
Bonney and what happened to Kuma: Bonney assuming she knows the facts of what happened to his father and holds a grudge towards VP because of that.

[primal cargo]

Bonney is clear about wanting to hear the reasons before she acts, though.

[ashen surge]

I'm with you there so I don't think Bonney is gonna off VP.

[candid stratus]

Realistically speaking, comparing these two situations you described. It's much more likely for Bonney to overcome the hatred with learning the facts (assuming it's in favor of VP being innocent and someone else being to blame)

[ashen surge]

But the difference here is that Bonney doesn't actually know what happened, Nami lived every bit of it.

[primal cargo]

I wouldn't expect Vegapunk to be "innocent" as much as part of something bigger, where maybe doing what he did was the rationally best thing to do

[candid stratus]

Which is another reason why Bonney would be faster to forgive

[split dagger]

Well I guess vegapunk will help Luffy and the straw hats, me thinking that he would be the enemy, but he is just a friend of dragon

[ashen surge]

What I'm going for here is that maybe One Piece has lacked such character arc where things are much more complicated than just a kid losing her father and anyone who was involved in that loss has to be a bad guy

[split dagger]

This is probably a more calm arc that just gives information, and solve some misteries

[primal cargo]

What's also possible is, Vegapunk knows about Bonney being here and expects her to kill him. It feels to me, like she would be seen as more likely to do it than CP0. They're strong, but she's more of an unpredictable factor I'd say ?

[candid stratus]

Really? I would assume VP has a very good surveillance network and knows CP0 is coming for him. Now that we know he has something to do with dragon that might be another reason to confirm the theory of killing VP because it's better for him to be dead than alive and helping others.
He would also therefore know CP0 is coming for him

[primal cargo]

I'm sure he's figured that out, the question is does he feel threatened by them to the point that he would confidently predict that he's going to die ?

[candid stratus]

That's a good point, but then would he feel threatened by Bonney? Maybe if he assumed the straw hats would help her but I dunno about that

[primal cargo]

Well she will definitely be able to make it to him, then I guess maybe he doesn't try to evade judgement for his actions and so he's planning to let her kill him if she decides to ?

[radiant crown]

What if kuma is an Oni, he's got the same big torso and tiny legs that kaidou has

[flat oak]

Quite a few characters have a design like that, like Queen, Weevil, and Moria. And yamato does not have anything like that.

[candid stratus]

That's because she's a sexy female character. Gotta please the simp audience. On a serious note I think the horns are an obvious part of their race and Kuma doesn't seem to have horns

[quaint tangle]

Oda is never gonna let her get her revenge. And vegapunk has stuff to tell us. He is our only means of learning this stuff.

The history of MADs, his work in karakuri. His relationship with judge ceaser and Queen. The update on the kids who nami knows were sent to vegapunk

[candid stratus]

I mean the way it's going the people that will first learn things from him are Sanji, Usopp, Franky, Nami and Robin. It's possible he tells them some important stuff and then Bonney gets her revenge. To be clear I don't think she will do it but I do think it's possible to have that happen and learn everything from VP

[steady prism]

@supple haven post that in #manga, not here

[dark charm]

My theory a few years back: more evidence to support it, vegapunk is actually a revolutionary in latest chapter?

[quaint tangle]

Sanji and franky are the 2 who definetely have to meet him.
But so far luffy has no connection to vegapunk. Oda will probably come up with one randomly lol

[candid stratus]

Luffy doesn't really care about much. As long as he can adventure around with his friends he's happy

[quaint tangle]

I mean yeah that's all he cares about. Not necessarily positive thing

[fathom matrix]

I bet the next cover story is going to be based around Big Mom and Kaido.

Something about them leaving an island, looking for resources, going back home and/or choosing to retire

So perhaps Big Mom's ready to go after the new yonkos that beat her but Kaido's done. They get a newpaper about being replaced. Kaido doesn't leave nor go back to Wano, Big Mom goes back to tatland and sees it in ruins.

Perhaps the cover story could show them rebuilding new lives and retiring. Kaido secludes himself, Big mom tries to rebuild tatland, giving up on staying as a Yonko or whatever

[tired willow]

isint she missing tontatta

[wraith shard]

What if Bonney's mom was Big Mom all along? Big Mom would want a kid from Kuma's race and Kuma was a king, so it'd be perfect to have a kid with him. However, if this was true, I think Kuma may have taken Bonney along with him when she was born and therefore, she couldn't be recognized as a "Charlotte" because there would be no record especially if Big Mom didn't see the baby when she was born. Not to mention, Bonney has those lip marks similar to Big Mom.

[flat oak]

I think one of her kids is a tontatta.

https://onepiece.fandom.com/wiki/Charlotte_Normande

[quaint tangle]

King could marry one of her daughters. Maybe smoothie. And that would leave kaidous race and the giants

[languid lodge]

the implications of big mom having a tontatta child is disturbing, but fitting

[dawn merlin]

Do you guys think Vegapunk could've been the one who orchestrated the straw hats splitting up pre-timeskip?

That led to the time-skip 😅

[languid lodge]

considering they (or, at least lilith) seemed to not be all that familiar with the straw hats on the first meet, i don't think they'd have a motive for it

unless the world gov't put vegapunk up to it, but i don't think luffy and the gang posed much of a threat yet aside from robin

[sly fjord]

and her hair's pink!

[wraith shard]

Ahh that's true!

[median scarab]

Yeah, it could have been on dragons orders

[pure raven]

Dr vegapunk is luffys mother 👍

The original

[crimson river]

Which Vegapunk

[acoustic dawn]

crocodile was actually law this entire time

[vernal lake]

Kuma is actually half-Lunarian. Being half, he only inherited the dark skin but none of the other traits like white hair, wings and fire manipulation.

[split summit]

No offense but idt Oda will make story based on what kishimoto already done although it maybe his original plan

[vernal lake]

Also Kuma carries a bible. Lunarian looks like Angels which came from the bible.
That's some solid evidence right there.

[languid lodge]

similarly to how kuma popped out luffy's pain and gave it to zoro, what if he popped out his own memories / emotions (or was forced to)

[sharp merlin]

I guess mama being dead wasn’t true

[pure raven]

Is it? Have lunarians ever been compared to an angel? Like to say Kuma is lunarian bc he dark skin and literally no other qualities is kinda crazy. He could be oni or smth

[sly fjord]

i like this theory

[wild minnow]

What if Sanji and Jimbei have Hawaiian shirts because they are not humans

[dawn merlin]

I think the origins of the DF would be more of a biblical perspective

Given that there exists the trees Adam & Eve which I'm positive are linked to them

[silent oxide]

Oni is artificial species…right?

[pure raven]

I don’t think so? Kaido seems natural to me lol

[silent oxide]

The oni we saw in wano is artificial.. u making it sound like its confirmed kuma js a oni . How tf u think kaido is a oni bruh

[pure raven]

Kaido is a confirmed oni? What do you think he is?

[silent oxide]

He isnt.

[pure raven]

Im pretty sure in the flashback he’s called an oni

[silent oxide]

Hmm show me i dont remember

[pure raven]

Oh and he calls Yamato the son of an oni in 1025 supposedly I just goggled it. Kaido flashback was what 1047? Or smth else

[abstract trail]

aokji is a spy

[dark palm]

that's fucking it

[lime pasture]

Just like x drake and everything went well for him

[dark palm]

im writing my "kuzan is not a spy and here's why" post

[lime pasture]

Good luck

[candid stratus]

I'm assuming that by spy he meant a member of sword. There's no real evidence to prove either side tbh, but I am leaning towards it being the case. I just don't see why else he would join BB

[ashen surge]

I will fight you, Kuzan is SWORD (probably not the emoji you want to use as a mod)

[candid stratus]

Yo I just thought of something. Might be completely wrong but there could be a connection. You know how Bonney said in the latest chapter Kuma was a part of a very special race. What if we already know of another member of that race...Blackbeard. What if it is actually a thing that they have three hearts or something like that. If you look at their character designs they are surprisingly similar. Black curly hair, massive chest etc. Would also make sense when it is unveiled. Everything is happening at the same time. Could also mean Kuma is actually still alive possibly maybe...
edit: I know this isn't a very well thought out theory but I'm sure more connections can be made I'm just surprised I hadn't noticed the similarity between these two

[ashen surge]

Dunno, If BB is a vegapunk experiment and it’s not the chimera DF the timeline wouldn’t match.

[candid stratus]

What? Why would BB be vegapunks experiment. I'm saying there could be another race and BB and Kuma both belong to it.

[ashen surge]

Dunno, I recall Marco saying that BB is ”built different”. I know it’s not supposed to be taken literally and it could also mean that belonging to another race is what that means

[candid stratus]

I mean there's a couple things he could be. #1 normal human but a genetic freak that's somehow mutated. #2 lab baby who got orphaned or something. #3 ate a df like the cerberus (I fail to see why Marco would say he is built different if he just had a Zoan. As a Zoan himself he shouldn't find that specifically so odd) #4 a member of a very special race just like apparently kuma is.

[ashen surge]

They don’t necessarily have to be aware of the Zoan DF to recognize BB has s different physiology. BB and Kuma having somekind of conncetion is plausible based on appearances, their respective ages and general hatred towards the WG.

[bold sequoia]

Connection is BB was apparently born on a snow island

[candid stratus]

Age shouldn't matter too much for them to be connected. If they are members of the same race that doesn't mean they are directly connected. It would however make sense if this special race is very rare and secluded. It would probably be a relatively small community and the connection could lie there.
I'm more interested in how the hell all the characters that have pointed out BBs weird body noticed that. Luffy, Zoro and Marco were the only ones or am I forgetting someone

[ashen surge]

Marco talked about ”as we know” so I’m sure WB crew was in the loop and Buggy also commented on that when they fought during their apprentice years

[candid stratus]

Didn't Buggy only comment on him not sleeping being weird not anything else?

[ashen surge]

Ye

[candid stratus]

But who knows of it is not important. I'm curious as to who noticed it, because that answers the question of how they noticed or rather helps us answer how. Which in turn helps us deduce what they noticed.

[sturdy glen]

what are some good theories to read now?

[jagged yacht]

i feel like akainu's line about it's frustrating they are forced to wait could be hint to something maybe winner island is not under wg or something it makes sense for marine to wait till pirates are fighting but why would akainu say they forced to wait and it's frustrating

[upbeat vector]

We can also assume the reasoj kuma was able to guard the sunny for those 2 years from invaders without it ever getting a scratch is cause he never slept like blackbeard just to add to your thingy : )

[languid lodge]

maybe since its a clash of 2 yonko-tier powers they don't want to butt-in

[iron current]

but lets be honest, we can also explain Kuma not sleeping with the fact that he basically was a robot at that point, we dont know if he ever needs to sleep the way he is right now

[languid lodge]

maybe he used his pawpaw fruit to remove his fatigue

[iron current]

oh yeah true he can do that

[jagged yacht]

wait where is it mentioned kuma can't sleep isn't that bb thing?

[dark palm]

Hey guys! Text wall coming

An analysis on Kuzan, a prediction of my own, and why it makes little sense for him to be a SWORD member:

If you've been chatting here or wherever else for a little while, you'll have noticed large amounts of people clamoring that Kuzan is a member of the covert marine group, SWORD. This is typically internally justified by a combination of the idea that he's not the type to ally with Blackbeard, and an irrational, knee-jerk reaction that it would be "cooler" if he was still a marine. First I'll post a bit on my thoughts regarding his presumed character arc between pre-timeskip and post, and why him being in SWORD makes no sense, then present a few options of my own that I find to be more interesting for both his character and the overarching story, and finally go through each argument I've heard in favor of this one by one, and. If you have a further argument in favor of him being a SWORD member, please ping me and I'll amend this post with my response.

Kuzan has been in some way a Marine reformist for as long as we've seen him. Even 27 years ago, he was commending Garp on how cool it was that he'd turned down another promotion to Admiral. But there's a key divide between reformists who lean towards revolution, and those who don't; as such, Kuzan's actions pre-timeskip point him more towards the latter. He let Robin go during Ohara... merely to sate the last wishes of his lifelong friend (ch 433). He didn't agree with Akainu bombing the evacuation ship... but supported a full-fledged buster call against the island that undeniably would result in large amounts of death. (ch 397); in the second example, he even went as far as to say:

If this was the only scope we had of his character, and all we knew of him post-timeskip was that he left the marines after facing Akainu, I would agree that SWORD membership/spy work of some manner for the marines would be a reasonable outcome... but chapters 650, 699, and 793 occurred and absolutely none of that makes sense now.

Chapter 650:
There is less substance in this chapter than 699 or 793, but there were two key things said that point towards a larger conclusion we can grasp from this. The first was something we could already implicate from past information, that Kuzan was endorsed mainly by his own subordinates (along with Sengoku), while Akainu was promoted by inter-government figures. Not much new to this as it’s still in line with what’s stated above, but I felt it important to point out. The second important tidbit is crucial though, and was the first bit of stated evidence that Kuzan was not the sort to be allying with the marines after his defeat.

There’s a deeper sort of anger here present in the contradiction of Kuzan’s prior judgment and present, and leads one to believe that he saw Akainu becoming FA as a grave outcome. Someone claiming Kuzan is now a SWORD member may brush this aside as “propaganda intended to deceive people, as of course they’d cover up something like this!”, but the rest of the in-story evidence points directly away from that conclusion.

Chapter 793:
Rather than chronologically, I’m placing these chapters in order of importance of details conveyed. Though 793 contained only one related interaction, it’s one that Kuzan + SWORD believers need to dig VERY deep to justify. I’ll just post the dialogue:

Any Kuzan + SWORD truther that exists past here MUST justify their explanation with either the fact that the Gorosei have no idea of SWORD as an organization, that they specifically do not know about Kuzan’s assignment, or that SWORD is under even Akainu’s nose! Given that masked-CP0 dude told X. Drake he knew exactly who he was (ch 1032), I struggle to believe that the Gorosei are unaware of Kuzan's presumed assignment. And given Kuzan’s hypothetical re-alliance with the WG would have come in the wake of his battle with Akainu, I struggle to give credence to the idea that Kuzan went instead under Akainu’s nose in an attempt to stay aligned with the World Government! Why would he at that point support an organization that is wholly and ideologically separate from him! One could potentially theorize that Kuzan is under a branch of marines separate from Akainu’s rule, creating some sort of vanguard force, but the evidence in the next chapter suggests that to be false.

Chapter 699:
This chapter is the only time we’ve actually seen Kuzan talk during post-timeskip, and he sure imparts a lot of knowledge. Right away, we get Doflamingo questioning Kuzan’s role in the New World based on his prior actions, and Doffy goes as far as to say this really strange and ominous comment that I feel the need to quote for later: “He’s no simple wanderer, only a man who’s made up his mind about something can make a face like that”. After, Kuzan begins with:

Represented here is Kuzan’s persistent world-view, and what led him to adopt the reformist tendencies he held while acting as a marine. As someone with a rather firm moral compass, he saw the World Government as the best way he could help the world (see ch 397), but didn’t see it as an infallible deity to bow down towards. Following that up is him outright stating:

This is a pretty straight-forward affirmation that he’s an independent actor, and to deny that you’d have to believe he’s just… outright lying to Smoker for some reason beyond ANY narrative sensibilities. Like, do you think this is all some publicity stunt or something? (this is somehow an actual theory that I will be addressing below) I honestly see zero other way to interpret the line. After implicating to Smoker that he found out his current location through his underworld connections, Kuzan impresses the danger of Doflamingo as a pirate, presumably knowing his Celestial Dragon connections and the power he holds over the World Government. I’ll post the panel:

If he was in SWORD, even assuming he was separate from Akainu, why would he not impart this information to someone more connected? Why would he wait to tell Smoker something like this? There’s no feasible explanation besides “he just told Smoker too cause why not”, and even that is silly given all the contradictions laid out above.

So if not SWORD, what makes sense for Kuzan? Well, I have a couple of thoughts, but I first want to highlight Kuzan’s potential shift in ideology. First and foremost, it’s important to establish that Kuzan’s mantra was not always “Lazy Justice”. According to Oda in the SBS of Volume 64, it was actually “Burning Justice”, and changed at some point after the Ohara incident. Rather than a personality shift (he was acting apathetic back in chapter 393, while still believing in his prior mantra), the switch to lazy denotes his general disillusion with the WG in the wake of the incident; he was no longer assured of the idea that those “breaking the law” were deserving of the sort of vengeance the WG doles out, or that the cost of life inflicted was necessary to maintain balance. I think faced with the potential role and power of Fleet Admiral, along with the possibility of his ideological opposite rising to power, Kuzan might have begun reverting to his prior mantra. That prior comment from Jinbe (ch 650), let me remind you, is particularly pertinent towards this notion: “Aokiji is not one to show motivation of any sort… but came out in furious opposition to Akainu being instated as Fleet Admiral”. I believe this justice switch could only have been strengthened in the wake of his defeat on Punk Hazard, and given his actions since, it’s very clear he’s now an extremely active figure towards the larger events occurring in the world. As Doffy said, he’s a “man that’s made his mind up about something”, and as such will proceed to that thing.

Now, what is that thing? I’ve got a few thoughts, but all of them in some way involve the toppling of the World Government as an organization. Chief among those are theories in which Kuzan himself is placed at the figurehead, as while I think a connection to the Revolutionary army is possible, we can’t be sure if Kuzan himself believes in them as an organization; to say he should absolutely join them in opposition to the WG would be creating a false dichotomy on incomplete information. Who knows if he actually agrees with their messaging? And what if he wants to maintain specific control, as he’s lost faith in systems outside of his own? Bottom line, I believe Kuzan to be a lone actor.

Let me also address the question of “why would Kuzan want to help out Akainu and the WG in Punk Hazard if he was intending to topple them?”. First and foremost, given the rest of the evidence points very squarely towards him not being associated, the explanation is already skewed in one manner: he doesn’t want to plunge the world into chaos before he himself can salvage it. Doffy’s potential revelation of the Marijois treasure would jeopardize the WG’s rule, and force their hand towards a potentially catastrophic event (one that is essentially occurring right now); given he’s allying with Blackbeard in this hypothetical for the purpose of toppling them, he would want as much time as possible to secure Blackbeard’s ascension towards what we can only assume is the seat atop everything, as Kuzan would then be in a position to steal that from Blackbeard. (Quick aside on that, Blackbeard’s connection to Xebec (his flagship is named “The Saber of Xebec”) will probably reflect his dream, with Xebec desiring to be king of the world). This theory counts on the idea that Kuzan believes himself to be stronger than Blackbeard as to stop him before he's seized ultimate power, and whether or not that’s true, he’s at the very least in the ballpark of strength and isn’t an idiot for sitting on that line of reasoning. The Blackbeard Pirates would be the most achievable avenue for this sort of thing, as the only other feasible path (The Revolutionaries) would probably not allow him to sit atop the hierarchy. I also just enjoy the idea that both of them are using one another for their goals given the sort of people they are. Keep in mind though that I’m far from sure about anything in these two paragraphs above, and this is more random things that could happen as the SWORD option is fully pushed out of the equation.

I’ll attack some specific claims that I’ve seen around for the fun of it, using mostly what I mentioned above.

Claim: "Kuzan is in SWORD because him and Akainu came to a secret agreement after they fought:"

First and foremost, the notion that Kuzan would compromise on his ideals is hilarious to me. He was obviously diametrically opposed to Akainu becoming Fleet Admiral (to the point of actual genuine anger which was unbelievable for him), and any scoot backwards towards agreement with akainu, even if akainu acquiesced on some of his radical tendencies, would be a step away from Kuzan’s own moral compass and way of being. Like I said, there was a reason Kuzan was so against Akainu. Anyways, the pragmatic reason this is false is that SWORD is not a secret, so the World Government would know and there’d be no reason for the chapter 793 dialogue between Akainu and the Gorosei to have occurred.

Follow up claim: “But Juba, what if he was allied with ONLY Akainu, not SWORD, and was acting in direct connection to him?”

So if you rejected my explanation for why that would be out of character for Kuzan, I’ll just bring up the instance where he told Smoker to inform Akainu of everything instead of outright doing so, or the instance of Kuzan stating he needed to be separate from the World Government to figure everything out. The only way out of this explanation would be that Akainu and Kuzan had an agreement for him to join Blackbeard RIGHT after their battle, and cut contact entirely after that. Starting to sound a little conspiratorial, right? But even stretching that much doesn’t make it stand the logic test! You still have to explain why a fight to the death would clear the air in any way given the ACTUAL dichotomy of their positions, as even despite the existing trope it’s not a feasible explanation for two people SO irreconcilable to one another! I’m going to post a meme of your argument to make you feel worse.

Punk Hazard was a publicity stunt orchestrated by Akainu and Kuzan to convince people he’s not a member of the WG anymore!```

First of all, what? Why would they need to do some random uh, “publicity stunt” two YEARS after their death battle that already convinced everyone? And why would it be done in front of a single Vice Admiral and a few dozen random marines? Don’t say "word of mouth spreads fast" like that makes any sense. At the very least align with the “Akainu and Kuzan made an agreement after he burned Kuzan’s leg off to never talk but execute their mutual goals” conspiracy theorists, as while they have no basis they’re not taking the piss.



If you see more arguments please give them to me!

@ashen surge @candid stratus btw

[ashen surge]

First off I’m going to ignore everything I see wack, like Kuzan being in an secret agreement with Akainu etc.

Kuzan being a Marine reformist.

I definitely agree that Kuzan is in the same way a lackluster Marine reformist who doesn’t lean towards revolution like let’s say Garp and Coby are. He still believes that a some sort of hierarchy and order is needed, yet it could be a less about punitive justice.

Gorosei or Akainu not knowing about SWORD or about knowing it’s affiliated members.

I firmly believe this to be the case. The Gorosei are at the very top of the WG hierarchy and it’s physically impossible to be up to speed of Marines day to day operations. On paper it could be possible that Akainu or even Gorosei do know that branch of undercover marines monitoring parties of interest exists but the details are sealed purely for op sec reasons. They don’t need to know much and it’s also smart that they don’t know. Even if they knew about SWORD existing, they don’t have to know that Kuzan is a member. SWORD is tasked to monitor the Yonko or other reasonable WG threats but these op sec protocols allow some room for rogue reformist thoughts exist inside the branch. Let’s clear that up with a statement: SWORD is a rogue reformist cell. Conviction towards reformist action and more rogue praxis is something that probably manifested during the time skip after the disgrace of the Summit War.

Smoker and Kuzan conversation

This is a very compelling argument and I had to do some actual mental gymnastics how would that conversation and Kuzan being a SWORD agent be justified but here goes:

Kuzan doesn’t trust Smoker completely but sees the potential in him to be sympathetic towards reformist action. He is encouraging Smoker to see the world beyond and maybe after the WG. I think in Kuzan’s head The WG can go but the chaos that will ensue after that will need the marines to keep order intact. You need to be close to the most dangerous parties after the WG has been toppled so Kuzan is right where he’s supposed to be at the moment. Kuzan recommending Smoker to inform the marines about Doffy is a move towards the abolishment of the Seven Warlords. He is setting up Akainu’s tenure for failure as the Fleet Admiral. I doubt Kuzan has any urges to be at the top of that hierarchy or that he sees a future for himself in the world that comes after and he’s 100% ready to die for something he believes in. Just like Saul did.

[pure raven]

I have a thought about Gear 5.

What if we didn't see what Luffy is really capable of? We know there's more to learn about the fruit, we don't really know anything about Nika, but Luffy still thinks it's the Gomu Gomu. Maybe when Luffy finds out more about the fruit like we have then he'll be able to make its power his own and effectively use it without limits. It's clear that Luffy has more to learn about the fruit, and that when he does, the form will probably be more like the other gears.

[ashen surge]

Luffy literally doesn't care about potential exposition of his fruits origins or true history. If that was given in the story, it would be 100% for the readers.

[pure raven]

He might when we learn more about BB.

He doesn't know that he can do anything he feels like he can do anything.

[ashen surge]

And that's enough for Luffy, he's all about feeling. I can imagine a point in the story where other people try to set up Luffy to be some Chosen One and the second coming of Joyboy but he'd be physically anxious of a such pedestal and he'd refuse to be some figurehead of a revolutionary movement that's ready to follow him.

[pure raven]

But he'd acknowledge that he can do more with Gear 5. And that's enough for me. Right now Gear 5 is incomplete, untamed, if you will.

Zoan fruits have a mind of their own after all. It's possible that the only reason Luffy was able to use Gear 5 is because Kaido defeated him, again. So it's untamed. Luffy will tame the fruit and make it his own power.

[ashen surge]

No one implied Kuzan is the head of SWORD

[fathom matrix]

I mean, perhaps it could be possible?

I mean, of course it's never been stated, but perhaps Kuma never has to sleep?

It's shown in one piece that many races are able to aquire natural/scary abilities in their base.

So perhaps Kuma was also chosen as a cyborg because he never had to rest or needs rest?

[hoary hatch]

It was just an example. I have definitely seen people claim it somewhere. Could have been Youtube.

[ashen surge]

Youtuber theorists just post the wackiest shit so people like me would hate watch that shit

[fathom matrix]

It's the thumbnails that get me. The content's fine, but having a thick boa stand next to an evil, haki covered, angry luffy holding akainu's corpse and he says "I'm the pirate king" is what turns me away from the content like "NOPE!"

[modest skiff]

Juba I look forward to reading that later. I also agree Kuzan is not in sword. I think he learned about what BB's goals are, how he plans to achieve them, and decided that BB's vision for the world would be an ethical replacement for the current power system. I'll post my thoughts once I read your full theory later though

[dark palm]

In regards to your SWORD bit, what do you make of them knowing about X Drake in his position? Because not only is it that they know SWORD is an organization, but they have the means to determine actors within if they pleased. Even in the hypothetical situation where they're not combing over each member, I HEAVILY struggle to reconcile the idea that they'd know Drake but not Kuzan given both his obvious importance to the marines, alongside his high-up position in the Blackbeard Pirates. It's not as if CP-0 planned to encounter Drake or anything, it just ended up happening while they were there; you could say they went through the file beforehand for the sake of it, but I struggle to come up with a logical explanation for why that would have been the case as they were assuming the party would go off without a hitch. Also, what do you make of Kuzan inevitably being complicit in helping Akainu while serving this rogue front? They're still acting in the interest of the marines and the WG at large, no?

Kuzan doesn’t trust Smoker completely but sees the potential in him to be sympathetic towards reformist action. He is encouraging Smoker to see the world beyond and maybe after the WG.

I think Smoker was already plenty sympathetic to reform at this point given his already stark opposition to the Warlord system after Alabasta, and his general disgust with the world government covering things up, so why do you think Kuzan would need to convince him further that separating from the marines was necessary if the goal was inter-marine reform? And to follow, with regards to SWORD being a rogue cell, I don't necessarily disagree, but I think that given the WG knows of its existence enough to grab a specific member's identity with ease, I'm scared to designate it as a full offshoot with unique motivations. To me, the exchange reads more like Kuzan justifying his own actions to Smoker, followed up by the underworld comment and his own "I'm still me" response.

You need to be close to the most dangerous parties after the WG has been toppled so Kuzan is right where he’s supposed to be at the moment.

I agree on this and I think largely our arguments are similar. We both believe that Kuzan is putting himself close to a potential world-dominant danger to guide its path. I ultimately believe he joined Blackbeard with the intention of stopping him, and then ruling over the new environment that he created as a fleet-admiral type figure, but that in-story Luffy's ideals will clear the path in Kuzan's judgement and allow him to die knowing that a just world can be achieved through a specific means besides his own. So I once again agree that the connection to Saul will likely happen.

But I disagree on stuff like this below, and it along with the contradictions I see above are why I'm against the idea that he's a SWORD member.

Kuzan recommending Smoker to inform the marines about Doffy is a move towards the abolishment of the Seven Warlords. He is setting up Akainu’s tenure for failure as the Fleet Admiral.

So would Kuzan's end goal in this be to radicalize Smoker against the warlords? To have him be the bearer of news to the WG in order to set them up? I don't see why it would have to be Smoker in either case as he's 1. already very anti-warlord (panel below) and 2. not a necessary liaison for that sort of information given Kuzan could just call it in. In regards to setting up Akainu's tenure for failure, is the abolition of the Warlords actually a bad thing? A majority of the world leaders agreed to it, and though the Warlords seemingly all escaped capture, that was besides the point as the system enabling their existence was the real bane rather than any of them. And while in the short-term it it would end up as a potential harm-spot, the WG only proceeded with the plan due to having a capable replacement in the Seraphims.

[dark palm]

Kuzan ACTUALLY allying with Blackbeard due to being sympathetic towards his cause would absolutely be an interesting outcome, and I've humored the idea in the past that Kuzan will exist as the "rational character" in the story convinced by Blackbeard's message to make it seem a bit more reasonable to us, but BB is just such a grimy guy that I... I can't see him having a necessarily positive worldview

[modest skiff]

In my eyes BB has yet to do anything that makes him clearly a bad guy. I have an easy time seeing him as an antihero

[soft urchin]

idk he killed his own crewmate and turned over Ace

[ashen surge]

If Drake was set up to be a SWORD agent from his defectment, that was ages ago and would’ve happened prior to the reformist conviction to rise. Information of undercover operations is dangerous so it’s safe to assume people who happen gain knowledge of that would be incentived to not spill the deets because if that information leaked, everyone in the know would be killed.

The abolishment of the Seven Warlords is not a bad thing if you think you can contain that shift of power and Kuzan believes Akainu can’t handle it so it’s in terms of his own goals.

[dark palm]

yeah it's not like, strictly "BAD" per se, it's literally grimy lmao. He's got people like Vasco fucking Shot in his crew and he's just perfectly fine with it

[soft urchin]

also killed Whitebeard basically

[dark palm]

killing whitebeard and ace is fine, honestly

as well as thatch

[soft urchin]

takes a certain kind of bad to turn on your family like that

[night sierra]

I'd love it

[night sierra]

Mhm same

[dark palm]

I feel a bit guilty dodging the slow mode in here so I'll try to abide by it

Drake's assignment was at least 2+ years ago, so I could see his own position getting exposed pre-timeskip or something along the lines. I guess I'm interested in your opinion on the idea that Sengoku was in some way connected to SWORD in the past (in a similar style to his dealings with Corazon), and that Drake, who was found on the island Cora died at, could have been one of the first SWORD agents if we're assuming the branch was created in the wake of Cora. In this case, it'd make a lot of sense for the WG to know about Drake given his proximity to Sengoku. Despite this understanding, you'll have to forgive me for being skeptical about all of this as I see the matter of secrecy less one decided by the SWORD members themselves, and more one determined by whether the WG cares enough to look into it; CP-0 being the ones tasked with doing so. I think it'd be negligent even to not pay close attention to the dealings of someone like Kuzan as he roamed around in the New World.

And I assume you just see this line below as further hammering home of the "smoker you better tell big daddy about doffy" point, rather than anything in particular? This discourse, and more specifically the idea that Smoker is not a necessary liaison, is still the largest driving factor in my belief he's not a SWORD member.

Btw, do you think Kuzan would have a particular contact in SWORD? I guess Drake would be an option given his own presumed proximity to Sengoku's along with Kuzan's.

[ashen surge]

What I mean by reformist, I mean believing the system needs a little fixing that can be mostly achieved by shuffling the ”bad” powers that be to ”good” powers that be. Doffy definitely is a bad power that would be and a threat. I think Kuzan specifically tipping of Smoker about Doffy is the fact that Smoker understands the issues regarding the Seven Warlords and he knows that a ”controlled” chaos is required for the system to come down with Doffy so the events of Alabasta are not replicated.

And I don’t think Kuzan has to be in contact with SWORD because it’s more about being in agreement of a cause than a coordinated operational force. Maybe Sengoku and/or Garp approached Kuzan after his decision to leave and they agreed on a common goal. Kuzans role in that goal is to stop BB when the time is right. I also designate BB as a bad power that would be

We don’t know a lot about the structure of SWORD, it could be one where every agent has a personal handler(s) and the handlers are tasked to maneuver with the information they are receiving.

[ashen surge]

And I don't want to seem like I'm moving the goal posts or want to say that because Kuzans and SWORDs ideals and goals align, they have to affiliated per se. But for the sake of the argument of Kuzan being affiliated or being a SWORD agent: I think it's more of an affirmation for the inner SWORD operatives that there is a reformist keeping close tabs on [Blackbeard] or any [Bad/Wrong Powers That Would Be].

But I gotta run, good talk @modest skiff could you tag Juba's opening theory and tag that as [Correspondence] or something so people know to read further?

[distant barn]

My theory is that Garp is gonna come and fight BB to save Koby. He isn't gonna make the same mistake he made during Ace's execution. Other than Garp, there isn't really any high-ranking or influential person in the navy that would put in the effort to rescue someone like Koby.

[dark palm]

IMO, in the event Kuzan was not in contact with SWORD, it would be hard for me to justify the idea that he took it on himself to meet with Smoker and push him towards a more radical direction after two years. I get that the Doffy dilemma was looming, but if Smoker was near-aligned with SWORD already, would it not have been sensible to expect that supposed post-timeskip reformist tide to have taken him in already? He was not one to let his grievances with the system go quietly, as seen in ch 793 when he ranted to Fujitora openly about the uselessness of the warlords.

Additionally him not being in contact with SWORD means the only main difference between our theories (outside of Kuzan’s general motivation for his pre-revelation actions) would come after his revelation as an actor against Blackbeard. In the event he’s aligned with the marines, he’d probably be less malleable towards Luffy’s ambition (which is opposed to even the reformists) and end up stuck between Luff and BB as they battle for supremacy. So I assume then that you think Kuzan will in some way sabotage/heavily injure Blackbeard at the cost of his own life, inadvertently helping Luffy but doing so before he actually realized Luffy’s threat to the world; if you think he and the reformist sect will instead ally with Luffy after seeing his end goals, then our theory has even LESS differences, with the main one then being mine has less inferences of context from the story, and is instead taking those Kuzan related dialogues for their immediate narrative weight; I once again have trouble reconciling with the idea of “you don’t need to be affiliated with the marines to see things” meaning he needs to drift towards marine reformists-sects, as it seems more like he’s talking about the underworld connections (which got touched upon a page later).

[grave thunder]

Do you think luffy will finally lose it if garp gets killed , garp has gotten the situation of koby and sabo. No one can stop garp now because sengoku is not officially part of the marine anymore and it seems like sengoku and garp is doing something behind the scenes. Garp dies saves sabo or koby he might fail to do so, luffy gets wind of the situation of koby and sabo then he continues what garp started. Or garp goes to sabo or koby then luffy goes to whoever garp can't save.

[junior nebula]

Luffy wouldnt take it very well, so yeah

[shy sail]

Now that Koby and Pudding are in the same prison, what’s the potential of this interaction (if any) and assuming it’s possible

I do think it can lead to more insight on the state of the world and could even bring up the meaning of Aokiji’s actions so far

[ashen surge]

Sadly I’m a bit cynical about the epilogue of One Piece. Revolutions usually wither into head-shuffling reforms and I fear this will be the case in One Piece as well. You get all the action and drama of a revolution but get to end the story with the actual status quo still intact

[candid stratus]

There are a lot of things Luffy has done that really make no sense. I've thought up a theory that attempts to explain them and doing so explain how the hell his Hito Hito no Mi, Model: Nika actually works.
I fully realize there are a few assumptions that have to be made in order for this to be true but I would love to hear others opinion on this matter.
I'll start of by explaining how I think it works and then list some examples. I believe his df actually embodies freedom. Allowing him to do anything his imagination can conjure up. The problem is Luffy has no idea of that being the case. He was told it's a fruit that turns him into rubber and that's what he believes it to be. Right of the bat you can think of the scene when he ate it and his body was like rubber before it got explained to him. Here we can just agree with what was said about Nika and it's body being like rubber. So that is essentially his passive attribute, cool. My point is that he wholeheartedly believes he is rubber (which he is) and that's it.
The thing is there's a bunch of stuff he does that don't really coincide with how we understand the world, yes even the OP world.
I do think a lot of the things are right on the border of making sense thinking he is just rubber but a lot would make much more sense if we just assume it's Luffy's wild imagination thinking about how rubber works. If they were any crazier Oda would risk spoiling the reality of his df too soon so he chose to ride that border. First example is his gears.

I don't have nitro so I will continue this in another message...

Gear second allows him to pump his blood faster and make him in turn faster. Not sure if that's how blood works but sure enough it makes sense to Luffy and simply works. Next is gear third. Even if his bones are rubber, surely you would need a hole to blow them up right? Instead he just blows into his thumb, bish bash bosh, it makes sense in Luffys head and that's all that matters. Same arguments go for gear fourth, gear fifth is a bit of a different story but we'll get there.
Next example is water Luffy. Can someone explain why he is leaking water but not bloody water? I mean if you have a hole in your body that allows water to escape from your stomach, then I assume there will be blood too. Sure you could write it off as a gag, but you can also explain it with Luffys logic. Same goes for the gag when Luffy grows his tooth when he drinks milk. He thinks milk fixes teeth and so it does for him. Everyone else even says "that's not how it works". They are very much right but Luffy believes otherwise so that's how it works for him.
Then we get to the fire. Red hawk. Luffy missed Ace very badly, to the point he subconsciously created fire. I think this can also be explained with his imagination. Now with gear fifth this is becoming more prominent. When in his awakened mode he has said he feels completely free and is most likely slowly coming to a realization of the actual degree his freedom can go. There's a bunch of other little details that simply make more sense if explained with yes Luffy thinks that's how something works, therefore that's how it works.
To be honest even if I came up with this I don't fully back it, because it has potential to break everything, however it just makes so much sense in my head.

[sly owl]

I believe the One Piece is a space ship. I think this theory has been made before, but nobody really takes it seriously. Space and space travel has been established early on with Enel, so it really isn’t unthinkable. I believe that the giant Joyboy had a spaceship and promised the mermaid princess he would take her to see the stars. (And this would parallel Luffy and Shirahoshi) This of course does not happen, likely because of war. This tragic story could also be why Roger laughed when he saw the One Piece and it could be tied in with why he was too “early”. He laughed because Joyboy’s letter was about trying to impress a girl and he was too early because Shirahoshi is yet to be born. I’m guessing Shirahoshi is a key to using this space ship. This also ties in with Luffy and Roger’s shared dream. With the reaction of the crew to Luffy’s true dream, it needs to be something absurd and impossible for anyone except for maybe the one person who has obtained everything the world has to offer. This would also allow for one of the hardest dreams in the crew to accomplish, Nami’s wanting to draw a map of the world. Easy to do from a spaceship. And then lastly, and the reason why I REALLY support this theory, is that Oda is a HUGE pirate fanboy. And I believe one of his inspirations growing up is Captain Harlock, a manga from the 70s about a space pirate with a huge emphasis on freedom. This pirate captain has a scar under his left eye and an eyepatch over his right. I believe Oda stated that before the end of One Piece, someone was going to wear an eyepatch. How fitting would it be for Luffy to pay homage to Oda’s potentially favorite manga growing up, Captain Harlock, with Luffy continuing his theme of freedom by not being shackled by his own planet. I think it’s very possible this could be how the series ends.

[cobalt ore]

Kuma knew that he wasn't going to be the same after going to see Vegapunk the last time. Dragon and Vegapunk are in league and hatched a plan to compromise the seraphim. The Kuma that protected the Sunny was just a robot. Kuma's real consciousness had been transferred to the Seraphim Kuma.

Seraphim Kuma is acting up, which is the start of it regaining it's sense of self. It will only regain full consciousness after seeing CP0 injure/kill Bonney, leading to a touching reunion.

[fathom matrix]

It would be kinda funny if Vegapunk flipped the switch and all the pacifist were against the WG

BUT, I could see that happening.

[primal cargo]

I don't think there will ever be confirmation of something like that, as like you said it's all gag/manga stuff that doesn't need any explaining. That being said it fits thematically and it doesn't hurt the rest of the story to hold this as headcannon

[west summit]

Maybe In the end game, for now? Nooo, they just stared to introduce the seraphim

[candid stratus]

Obviously Oda won't go back and confirm all these things. But there could be implications for it in the future. However if nothing else as you said, I'm happy with it being my headcannon

[manic helm]

Dinosaurs have some of the strongest legs in history, which makes me think that Sanji might end up with an ancient zoan fruit.
Zoro says he'll be loyal to Luffy even if (according to one translation) he'll end up having to be the guardian to the gates of hell. This, along with his asura power, makes me think he'll end up with a mythical zoan cerberus fruit. Who thinks this makes sense?

[candid stratus]

I mean do you really think strong legs is enough of a connection. I think it's pretty clear Sanji is not eating any devil fruits. The genetic modifications are now awakened in him and he is essentially a modified human now. Combined with his wide roster of fire attacks which he can do probably because he got tempered with Lunarian DNA he has absolutely zero need for a df.

And about Zoro getting a df that is also not happening he is a swordsman through and through he wouldn't go for a petty upgrade like that. It would take away from his entire character design and just be an awful choice narration wise.
To top it off no one really wants to see more zoans after Wano. We've seen them for years now and Oda usually just focuses on one type of df. So I don't think we will encounter more than a few random zoans here and there until the end of the story

[radiant crown]

It's interesting, because we've seen crews lean strongly away from fruits ( Roger, shanks) we've seen crews lean strongly into fruits (bb is the best example, but marines is actually the next best).

Strawhats are almost split down the middle (4 users, 5 non users). Makes me think the last user will have a fruit, or someone will gain one

[wide crane]

I think that having a DF is unlikely in either case because their whole thing is that they train hard to be good and if Zoro got a DF he would give it to his sword

[candid stratus]

Also in the future use either manga or manga-serious for stuff like this. You can read the rules for the channel and we should not be talking about this here really

[round comet]

Can I share a theory about the Egghead arc?

[round comet]

I believe that Egghead Island is a setup arc for the Strawhats going to the Moon. One hint is that many buildings on Egghead Island look like cartoon rocket ships. There is also the fact that Vegapunk split himself up into six different people named around figures related to the Moon, such as Edison and Atlus being named after Moon craters. Also, based on Enel's side story, it was shown that technology from the Moon, such as the automata, was on Vegapunk's homeland Karakuri Island before Dr. Tsukimi passed away. Vegapunk seems to be heavily interested in the Moon based on his homeland, satellites, and experiments with the Lunarians. And with the zero-gravity climate he's constructed on Egghead, the island seems to be the perfect launching spot for a trip to the Moon, and Luffy would defiantly want to be a part of a space adventure. Also, the Lunarians had probably fled to the Moon when the WG ran them out of the Red Line, waiting for Joy Boy to return.

[radiant crown]

And this will bring us back to Enel, the 10th strawhat and the ships logia user

[round comet]

Either Enel or possibly a Lunarian as well

[radiant crown]

as I suggested above, it's possible strawhats will go for 10 members, 5 fruit users 5 non-fruit users. And as far as fruit types, they are still missing logia

[round comet]

And if Vegapunk is going to send the Strawhats to the Moon, it makes sense why Carrot didn't join them at this time. Being on the Moon might have killed her of exhaustion from her Sulong Form

[radiant crown]

shit they already have 6 non-fruit users

[round comet]

And for those who ask, "how can they get back down?" The answer would be that the Straw Hats would get help from the Lunarians to safely land on the World's Biggest Tree, Yggdrasil leading the crew down to the Land of Giants Elbaf.

[steady prism]

!theories

@merry fractal interesting insight, it would indeed be nice to see Ussop or Franky get an upgrade similar to Nami. But this sort of open-ended contemplative idea is much better served in #manga-serious . If you ever find some reasoning/evidence that supports why one of them will get an upgrade, it'd be welcomed here.

@austere meteor please read the channel description. One-line comments like this are better placed in #manga .

@steel laurel As Plushie said, this channel is meant for in-depth discussion on a particular theory. If you had some substantive evidence/reasoning to support your Blackbeard idea, it would be welcomed here as a theory. Otherwise, please use #manga or #manga-serious for these ideas because there's definitely some merit to them

[lone hedge]

Please refrain from using manga-theories for joke theories, casual chit-chat, power scaling, bounty predictions or low-effort memes. This channel is for serious discussion- please read the channel description. Posts here must be in paragraph form, preferably with evidence, not just a one line open question.

[round comet]

Sorry Bec, Can I share some pictorial evidence around my Moon arc theory then?

[steady prism]

Oh, none of that was directed towards you, your Egghead theory's fine. You've provided plenty of reasoning to imply there's plenty of connections b/w VP and the moon.

If you want to provide more evidence you're welcome to do so whenever, but your theory's fine as-is.

(feel free to DM or ping me in #manga for any further questions/concerns)

[dim drum]

Maybe they also have to go there because the last Road Poneglyph was moved there from FMI

[modest skiff]

I enjoyed this write up a lot. In the panel after that, Aokiji says he isn't proud of what he has to do. I think its important to note Kuzan says "good of the world", not the WG, Celestials, Navy, the way other marines (like Green Bull) have used as justification. GB has flat out drank the kool aid. Kuzan seems to:

1. Be motivated by a "by all means necessary" sense of defending the world as a whole, not CDs like GB.

2. Feel guilt for what he has had to do. GB and other marines have zero guilt and feel like they're heroes for what they do.

3. Feels absolute confidence he's doing the right thing

I honestly think this paints a mostly positive and ethical perspective of Aokiji. He is showing he is willing to be the one to get his hands dirty and bare the guilt of keeping the world safe and/or preventing war/death. I've been a long-time BB apologist and its because I think BB has the same ethics as Aokiji is elucidating through his conversation with Saul.

I have always seen BB as an antihero who is willing to get his hands dirty and do what needs to be done for unraveling the fascist genocide of the CDs/WG/Navy. For this reason, I think BB having a conversation with Kuzan, where Kuzan learns BB has both intention and capability to defeat the CDs through some long series of events/actions, would result in Kuzan joining BB. I think BB's recruiting is not as simple as being strong. I think BB started out his recruiting by conveying a clear means/plan. I think Kuzan would not have a hard time doing what needs to be done after finally meeting someone who has a real shot at taking down the CDs. So I think Kuzan joined BB for moral reasons and I think they are good reasons. I'll reply in parts since I will run out of characters otherwise lol

[modest skiff]

Since a lot of people are navy prior to being in sword, and remain in the navy, someone within leadership must know about it. Otherwise that's a bunch of missing people lol. If he is in SWORD, it means SWORD is intended to overthrow the government/CDs. But totally unknown atm.

To your point of Kuzan reacting to the Ohara Buster Call, I think that Kuzan always believed he was preventing global war by protecting the government/Navy. I think he realized "what am I even preventing if things like this happen by the order of the CDs?"

I think your reference to taking action after his fight vs Akainu is really good. I think the combination of Ohara and knowing what Akainu would do as FA made Aokiji decide it was time for the CDs to go.

I disagree that BB intends to sit on top of anything. I think he wants to topple the CDs but I don't think he wants to "rule". I don't think he has any regard for what comes after the CDs are defeated. He probably wants to seize Marie Jois but not like form a government where he's a ruler of the planet.

Overall I just generally disagree with the idea that he's an independent actor, I don't think he intends to betray BB. I think BB says it as simply as "the CDs need to go. Here's how I'm going to do it. You in?" and its really convincing, and it convinced Kuzan.

I also think the revs would welcome Aokiji if he had good reasons for joining.

[dark palm]

him generally agreeing with blackbeard is also a path, no doubt about it, but how come you disagree with the potential of "independent agent kuzan" given your assessment of his general perception of his praxis?

[heavy ocean]

Any idea on how Vegapunks six satelites are created?

Did Vegapunk create them as artificial humans, abduct humans and transferred part of his consciousness into them or did he use dead bodies and reformed them to his liking

Call it a hunch but I think Shaka and Lilith arent entirely new characters, rather they were introduced as a different character

[robust spindle]

Sun God Nika is the creator of Haki I think the liberator of freedom from thousands of years ago is the first haki user to ever exist, when you break down the word of haki you get “ha” which means sun and “ki” which mean energy (sun energy) and Nika as we know is the sun God, Nikas will was to be free and liberated therefore as the first being to utilise his will for various purposes Which said ability was epitheted as “haki” his body became rubber for haki uses one’s willpower and since his will was to be free his body became a power embodying the will of freedom itself (rubber) because of its unbounded flexibility and ever-changing adaptiveness as the first user he was known as a God throughout history because of his extraordinary haki usage (hence why it’s called sun energy) AKA haki through his haki he could bring his willpower into reality his goofy nature and imaginative mindset was realised through Haki

[candid stratus]

I would just like to reply to one detail that I disagree with. When you said there's a bunch of missing people otherwise. If they are a member of sword they aren't necessarily not members of the navy. For instance Koby is a Marine captain. He might have a different rank in sword. When it got unveiled they were separated as two titles not to mention how he reacted to cp0 being there. Until I see clear proof of the WG knowing about sword and who the members are or at least about some of the members, I will not be convinced sword works under them
edit: the only indicator is the naming since it contrasts them with cp0 as they are called cp "aegis" 0. Aegis meaning a shield. Would make sense if they named them as sword and shield. Other than that there's nothing really

[ashen surge]

It's interesting that you think BB would have a some kind of hidden moral inside him since to this point we've seen him be driven by a great amount of selfishness, greed and overconfidence on his own volition. I strongly disagree with the idea that BB wouldn't want to rule the world after CD's since his own pirate crew has already formed a strong hierarchy which he leads from the Admiral position. He doesn't seem to have concerns regarding morality and I seem him as an amoral person and the worst kind of Neutral Evil alignment there can be.

[primal cargo]

In fact Blackbeard is very open about not caring about morals when he shits on Hannyabal after his speech on justice

[steady prism]

!theories @silent oxide not the place forjoke theories and please keep all spoiler content of other movies in #western-series .

[lone hedge]

Please refrain from using manga-theories for joke theories, casual chit-chat, power scaling, bounty predictions or low-effort memes. This channel is for serious discussion- please read the channel description. Posts here must be in paragraph form, preferably with evidence, not just a one line open question.

[silent oxide]

Mb sorry

[primal cargo]

I'll add to the pile of Kuzan analysis.
My understanding of Kuzan's character journey is :

1. Initially (Ohara) he's confident about being on the right side. He's really into his job, as can be seen in his "fired-up" attitude.
2. The events of Ohara (and most notably the evacuation ship incident) force him to reconsider his moral views. He realises how far the Navy is willing to go, and that Sakazuki's methods, that he rejects, are tolerated and even welcome. This leads him to become the Aokiji we meet in LRLL : a man who's extremely laid back, doesn't go out of his way, and changes his mind all the time. (See his back-and-forth on killing or not killing the Strawhats)
   Basically he understands that he doesn't know what justice is. He thinks, but isn't sure, that he's on the right side. That's why he won't insult pirates or rant about justice.
3. Despite his doubts he knows that he can't accept Sakazuki being the Fleet Admiral. You could say he gets "fired-up" again when he goes as far as fighting for the position. After he loses, he quits, as he cant stand being part of the Navy under Sakazuki.
4. Kuzan goes look for a new way to follow his sense of justice. Somehow that brings him to Blackbeard.
   What we do know is that Kuzan is no longer "unsure" like he was pre-TS. Doflamingo tells us this explicitly. You can also see him shout at people in PH, something he did on Ohara and never again pre-TS. He's back to his fired-up self, only in a different faction. So whatever he's doing now, he's must feel confident that he's following justice again.

Very interesting that Kuzan appears in Punk Hazard to save his friend. That is what Saul decided to do after his own vision of justice was shattered.

[candid stratus]

It's just a very clear character developlment. He was a young marine thinking obviously the marines are good, I want to do good, let's go lads. Realizing it's not just black and white, then being lost as in, is he really doing the right thing here. Then deciding it is for the best if he does it differently and now we are seeing him on that path he decided is best through experience. While also trying to fix his wrongs even if it's just for himself, like Salmy Gondy gave an example. He saved his friend when he failed to do so with Saul

[primal cargo]

Here is the exact moment it happens. Ship is blown up, Kuzan loses the moral ground he was standing on. He maybe starts to realize that he shouldn't have been so confident about being right. What does he do ? Uses an attack called "Time capsule" to freeze Saul (earlier he was trying to impale him with ice). I think this represents him thinking "I want to know for sure if what I'm doing is right, before I take definitive action". He freezes the situation to decide later. For that reason I think the chance is decent that Saul is alive, though it's not necessary for this interpretation.

Notably, the chapter is titled "Reach the future". (It's about the books being saved from fire, but you can see the double meaning)

[radiant crown]

That's very interesting, do you believe that possibility Saul is the "man marked by flames"?

[primal cargo]

Sure, he's connected to the Poneglyph through Ohara

[candid stratus]

Is it possible they had the fourth poneglyph at ohara?
It wouldn't necessarily be there anymore but could it have been there then?

[ashen surge]

Ohara is in the west blue and road poneglyphs are different colors

[steady prism]

Also, the 4th Road Poneglyph was last seen at FMI 26 years ago. Could it have been moved to Ohara 25 years ago? Unlikely but possible.

[ashen surge]

wasnt it 22, Robin was 8, 28 in her debut and is now 30

[pure raven]

God I'd love nothing more than for Saul to be alive

[steady prism]

That’s right, Ohara did get destroyed 22 years ago.

[chrome token]

what if bonney is big mom’s daughter? they look the same and plus kuma is a special race too 🫣🤔

[chrome token]

also big mom’s eyes are purple too and her lip stick on her top lip has that heart shape just like bonney

[candid stratus]

I do think it's unlikely but with a 4 year window it's possible it got moved. The reason why I thought it could possibly be Ohara was with all the Kuzan and Saul talk. I also thought it would make sense for them to have one as something they would use to decipher it. Although they probably started deciphering ages ago + they might just have a blue poneglyph and they can simply get markings from them. No good reason to go through the trouble of moving it

[fathom matrix]

Stupid idea but what if some Lunarian DNA made it out into the world?

So Kuma being bulky and powerful, black beard having a weird body, it could be linked.

OH and if Black Beard is related to Lunarians, what if Lunarians are called that because they never have to sleep, and they're awake throughout the day and night?

BB might have a weird body, lack need for sleep and insanely strong BECAUSE of some residual/leftover DNA

[proper kraken]

i had a theory i joined the server to share, small one but what would zoro's sword be EOS? obv the white one (idk any by japanese name) form his childhood, he currently has enma (odens) and the other cursed one but im thinking EOS he'd have rogers (Ace) and shanks, the reason i dont think he'd take mihawks is because of the size of it, but shanks and roger have ties to his captian, and I think BB will kill shanks giving his sword to shiryu and zoro will take it from him, and I think they'll find rogers on laughtale, and he'll use it against the marines.

[snow mauve]

Mihawk is the son of Silvers Rayleigh. He has the same sideburns as Shakuyaku, and part of Silver’s goatee. He looks similar to both characters.

https://preview.redd.it/5m11mjvv8ij61.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=868e026f6ef1b901d8091e565f55bb5c04c04f3f

[steady prism]

@fathom matrix please be mindful and organize those thoughts into the form of a theory. I see where you're going with it, but the way it looks comes off as a bunch of "what ifs" chained together. Else, #manga-serious would enjoy exploring those ideas.

@snow mauve we always ask that people summarize their evidence/reasoning in text form as well to promote better discussions. Links are nice but are not a substitute for that. Please write a few sentences on why you think they are related. My two cents: the timeline "seems" to fit looking at Shakky and Rayleigh's ages. There might be something there

[snow mauve]

Mihawk looks just like the two of them.

[steady prism]

...could you elaborate a little more? Feel free to edit your original post too. Just saying "they look like each other" isn't indicative of the link you shared. In there you showed specific details that were common.

[pure raven]

I’d say nah. Black blades I think either are stated or implied to turn black from hard battles what’s a harder battle then mihawk. He might break a blade then take Mihawks, bc the whole narrative of passing something down is really present in op Fr ez shanks and Luffy with the sh same idea. One is for sure enma, bc it gets constantly talked in wano about how enma didn’t hit black sword status and zoro is the heir apparent. I could see zoro using ace but isn’t ace with rogers body which would be with the wg so I doubt he could get it. I could def see him using gryphon. It’s a similar size/has relevance. So I’d think it’d go the ichjimonji, enma, gryphon, then Ichijmonji, enma, yoru

[ebon idol]

Think is Yoru doesn't fit Zoro, too big and doesn't match his sword style

[pure raven]

Zoro has used some big sword before I think . Also it might be like enma where it changes size to fit the user

[ebon idol]

does it? cool to know. I don't know, it felt weird when he used the scythes in wano, his style are japanese katanas

[pure raven]

Yea oden is massive and it was a decent size for him but hiyori still held it normally

[modest skiff]

I like the idea of independent agent Kuzan, and I agree he hasn't had a "true" authority in his mind. I think he sides with whatever side prevents the most death and I think he sees the WG as a necessary evil. But I don't think he wants to rule. It just doesn't strike me as something that would motivate him. Being a rigidly "greater good" purist who is very powerful and capable of swaying balances of power is enough of a core motivation for everything we've seen of Kuzan. The times he has hesitated to kill, the times he decides to kill, and the conviction he speaks indicates a really strong inner moral duty/accountability. I think he was in in the Navy for that reason and I think when he saw a way to actually fix the world he hopped on board. I think Aokiji is deeply invested in making sure the world is fair and safe, but I don't think he wants to be the one sitting in the king's chair.

[modest skiff]

I think all of BB's actions so far could be framed or justified in the process of building sufficient influence or capability to overthrow the CDs. He is a leader of his crew, but his main island is basically a pure form of freedom. He does not seem to intervene much. I think BB's goal is as simple as removing the CDs and erasing their roots. I think he would enforce the destruction of the WG, but I don't think he'd want to rule over what is left behind.

I think if everything BB has done so far was to work towards ousting the CDs, its a lever worth pulling.

[primal cargo]

We've discussed this before but lines like "Conquer the world with me" and "This is my age" don't sound like someone who doesn't care about ruling.
I agree that BB must want to overthrow the WG, as within my Pirate Kingdom model he plays the role of the evil Pirate King, he wants to bring back the Pirate Kingdom and be its King.
Whereas Luffy would be the one who doesn't want to rule anything. I think this is exactly the kind of opposition that Luffy and Blackbeard have. They do the same thing but for opposite reasons.

[primal cargo]

To be clear I don't think he has to actively rule as in administrate the world or anything, but I think he still wants to be the King and hold the power that comes with that.
You know, Pirate Island may be a place of freedom but nevertheless Teach is the boss.

[ashen surge]

Yeah I think BB is a person who wants to bathe in the idea that he is at the top of the world which means that there needs to be a hierarchy where other people are more free than others. We will again circle back to the idea of personal freedom and equal freedom.

Btw @modest skiff, @primal cargo, @steady prism, @candid stratus, @dark palm etc, I just finished a contract article about an #other-series on a print magazine but I'm probably gonna write a huge feature about One Piece next year, would you guys be willing to help me out with it?

[candid stratus]

It's an honor that you even thought of me hahaha If there's anything I could help with, don't think twice about asking me

[copper frost]

I could say that BB's ambition to be at the top of the world has a common area in the venn diagram with what Kaido has in his mind as well: the desire to bring down systems and plunge the world into war which he believes is the true currency in the world where everyone are on an equal battlefield. Kaido resides at the top of the chain here and essentially is the most authoritative presence in the world if such is the case.

Big Mom comes into consideration as well, since her utopian ideal world like Totto Land where everyone are equal only comes at the specific price of bringing the established order in the world, which she believes she would achieve by becoming the pirate king. All of these people have ambitions that essentially seek the dismantling of the status quo.

Yonko antagonists we've seen so far (Big Mom, Blackbeard, Kaido) all have an anarchical streak in them, the want to bring down the status quo, break existing power structures, bring the world down to their simplified versions of reality.

[tawdry fractal]

luffy has powers of sun god nika, so does imu sama have powers of the moon god and dragon has powers of rain god? I'm not sure about imu-sama but dragon definitely has the mythical zoan: rain god fruit because of loguetown. First of all, he just casually teleported and second, there was lightning that saved luffy.

[visual merlin]

luffy having sun god doesn't mean everyone will have some version of a god fruit. Dragon can just have a weather fruit, and imu who knows what they could have up their sleeve but it wouldn't need to be a moon god fruit

[tawdry fractal]

if you think about it, joyboy was seen as the main hero in void century, and imu was probably a villain. It's likely, that luffy had joyboy's fruit after he died. And just so to serve as an entertaining villain, imu having the moon god kinda makes sense.

[ashen surge]

There’s nothing anarchial in Big Mom or Kaido

[copper frost]

I said they have an anarchical streak, not that they were anarchist themselves

As I mentioned above, they do want to bring about their own versions of reality into the world by trying to bring the existing systems down and collaborate with various forces in order to bring that to fruition. They both have their own versions of the ideal world that can only be achieved through the destruction of the status quo

[ashen surge]

Yeah but Big Moms idea of Totto Land is very flawed and it’s not an equal society: you can read more of my thoughts here: #manga-theories message

What I mean that the models Kaido and Big Mom seek after do not in fact change the status quo if they were successful

[copper frost]

They won't change, but I am talking about the streak of anarchy that they have in them. I am talking about their ideals and how they want to achieve them. I am not really mentioning the effectiveness of their goals or what it entails after achieving them. But their desires still have that streak, of bringing their own version of reality into fruition and that is what is common with Blackbeard in my opinion.

Kaido's goal of a pirate haven in New Onigashima that is established in order to serve as a headquarters to his camp in lieu of the war he wants to unleash on the world to bring everyone on an equal playing field on the metric of strength being the primary decider of worth and Big Mom's version of an ideal utopian society (which is massively flawed and I agree) both need breaking the world they currently occupy and break the systems that have formed in the world. Both of which are ideas that may have their levels of certain success or not, which at this point we know were ideas that were massively flawed.

[copper frost]

this is cool btw, good read

[tawdry fractal]

vegapunk is luffy's mom

[ashen surge]

The one thing I disagree with Big Mom is that I think just establishing Totto Land as her utopian queendom would've been enough. In her assumed last words she told us that she doesn't know what One Piece is or what it would mean to acquire that. It's just a mcguffin or an idea in her head that it should be sought after even she already had her goals pretty much achieved. The difference between Revos and Pirates is mostly the fact that pirates reject the society and detach themselves from it where as Revos understand the fact the detaching yourself from the injustices of the current system only benefit yourself and has no value if you don't want that to everyone.

[steady prism]

!theories @pure raven this is not a channel for one-line theories. Please read the channel’s description

[lone hedge]

Please refrain from using manga-theories for joke theories, casual chit-chat, power scaling, bounty predictions or low-effort memes. This channel is for serious discussion- please read the channel description. Posts here must be in paragraph form, preferably with evidence, not just a one line open question.

[desert drum]

@ashen surge totto land exists in a lot of hypocrisy, its not the peaceful place Linlin dreamt of as a child, there is a distinct monopoly on violence carried by the pirate Crew and especially the Family members towards ordinary citizens. Also racism, like against pudding as a child or latent against giants, fishmen, general xenophobia is ravaging around totto land, but Mama threatens everybody with taking their Souls which basically appeases them - its a (Bad)funhouse mirror Version of little Linlins dream just like the carmel she remembers and knew is a distorted image.
In my opinion, she failed in archieving her dream, but cant realize that unless she has some character development towards unraveling her memories and accepting her fate and that of the children at her Birthday Party.

[ashen surge]

That's everything I said in the linked theory above yes

[desert drum]

No, you said she archieved her goals, which is quite the opposite.

[ashen surge]

I meant that containing her utopia to Totto Land probably would've been enough for her vs taking your society model global

[desert drum]

It isnt her utopia though. A Symbol of her dream just became a placeholder for Power. Unless her dream changed severely, she utterly failed.

[ashen surge]

Did you read my thing

[desert drum]

Are you asking me If i read what i am replying to, or are you questioning your own coherency?

[ashen surge]

#manga-theories message i meant this

[desert drum]

Yes, your theory is based on a perspective on linlins Life in which she is 'a winner', in terms of her own Goals, aspirations etc, but she is Not, what i say is that everything she did was pretty much a cardhouse illusion for herself to keep moderately sane; distinctively contradicting her goals/dream.

[ashen surge]

I never said that she's a winner

[desert drum]

Yes you Said and I quote "she had her goals pretty much achieved" which is simply wrong based on my perspective which is so very different from yours.

[ashen surge]

So you didn't read my thing, you're basically just paraphrasing me: "Big Mom has built her monarchy on demonstrations and threats of violence. When she offers someone to join under her rule, you will either agree or get destroyed. It’s ultimately a one sided deal, where the other party is forever indebted to her for the “protection” she gives. Living in Whole Cake Island or belonging to Big Mom Pirates has a cost, and the citizens of WCI are taxed through bits of their lifespans extracted and given to her. Big Mom's mission is as selfish and twisted as Carmels. While Carmel got material gains from her child trafficking, In parallel Linlin is getting immaterial gains and is able to feed the needs of the broken child she is and getting a twisted sense of family and belonging. Deep inside of her, she acknowledges this herself as well. She’s afraid people around her would leave so she keeps reminding everyone how much everyone owes her."

[desert drum]

No, No paraphrazing at all, you list what we all saw in the Story, i Draw conclusion.

[copper frost]

Keturin is saying that she effectively achieved her dream of a singular utopian society in Totto Land. She should've thought that the single instance she established that society should've been where she stopped at.

[desert drum]

Yes and im saying the opposite. She did Not archieve her dream of her utopian society.

[ashen surge]

I don't think she achieved her dream of a singular utopian society, I'm saying she could've stopped at Totto Land after she had achieved it there. What I mean that I don't see her wanting to conquer the world or topple down the CD's, she just wants her own thing and the Celestial Dragon's aren't in the way of that.

[desert drum]

She achieved nothing. She built an asylum around her to keep sane because growing up with the indifference of Streusen and Karmels fake-Dream(its a lie she told children) she would never become able to archieve her dream of peace and equality. In fact, i think its a nightmare for Linlin, when, or if she 'wakes up', she will regret.

[ashen surge]

Why do I feel like we’re arguing about a thing we agree 100% and I’ve already said the same things months ago

[desert drum]

Because you insist on saying it first when you saying it didnt deliver it.
And yes, all of this unraveled the second Mamas flashback started in the Manga, i felt all of it when i heard her saying "maza, nobody is ever listening to me"

By the holy way! @ashen surge
At the tea Party, when Mama Said it. Nobody could understand what she was saying because of the screaming noise. But Luffy actually asked 'what did she say?'!!!

[ashen surge]

I’m not following at all how I failed to deliver it

[desert drum]

Im sure this is the wrong place for this, but since you insist on your person mattering for discussion, well, as apparent, your perspective paints mamas person, her will as that of an 'achiever' which is the ironic overtone her narrative has, because she is a yonkou most powerful, but thats not her person thats the place she maneuvred and got maneuvred into, the question is that of agency. You failed to clear that little Linlin would not have wanted any of this, and that we, apart from displacement, know of No reason it should be different for the Great Pirate Big Mom.

[ashen surge]

Can you quote me on where do I say that Big Mom achieved anything, I'm not following you at all.

[desert drum]

I already did that.

[desert drum]

Here.

[ashen surge]

That's your personal interepration of what I said, I explained myself again so why are you getting hung up on that.

You're gonna need some scuba diving certifications for such deep projections

[modest skiff]

You’re right that he’s very clearly saying he wants to rule, but I think we essentially agree on what that looks like. I know he’s the ruler of pirate island, but he’s an unconventional ruler. I think he wants to “rule” the world the same way he does pirate island. I think he wants to prevent traditional ruling and leave the world in a state like what your big theory described. I think it all comes down what he wants to do as a boss. I think he just wants to prevent bosses and just live as the most powerful pirate.

@ashen surge you might be right that ultimately he’s a bit of a hypocrite and I wouldn’t mind that either. I guess we’ll see. He’s a tough character to predict. And also it’d be an honor to help with an article so please keep me in the loop.

@copper frost you are right that all of the Yonko each have their own “utopia” that has a really pronounced catch to it. I am starting to think it’s possible @primal cargo is right that the world used to contain a giant pirate “paradise” which turned out to be a really not safe place. If BB is trying to rebuild a long lost pirate kingdom, maybe it turns out letting everyone do whatever they want has negative consequences and that’s why the WG was originally formed. We still don’t know what exactly Shanks and BB each want the world to be like. It’ll be interesting to learn that. I think everyone agrees the whole CD structure needs to get tossed in the trash. Just a matter of what comes next.

[ashen surge]

Well sure there is nuance whether you wanna see CD's go because it's a fucking horrible system and wanting to see CD's go because you want their place. Yet of course we as the readers are very privileged being in the know of the whole Imuninati behind the scenes and the outcomes of that revelation will be very interesting to see.

if dabble back to our theories about the cosmicism elements of Imu and what they have to be achieved by being the secret ruler of the world. Even the CD's think they are at the top of the hierarchy, they are still subjects to Imu and the Gorosei are seemingly willing of such arrangements. I could see BB getting some retribution as a character towards the end when the possibly deterministic situation is revealed to the characters.

[ashen surge]

Why would the WG hide the truth about the formation of itself it it was generally a good thing, just because they are ashamed of the means used?

[zenith pebble]

I've been rereading the manga ever since we learned that nika was foreshadowed back during skypeia and I might have stumbled across something.

What the hell did joy boy do to this island!? I assume Joy Boy since luffy doesn't have Nika at this point and it appears as if the land was changed by a devil fruits awakening. We saw this when luffy was cartooning Kaido.

[ashen surge]

next panel

and the viz translation is completely different

[zenith pebble]

That does change things

[round comet]

Here’s another theory I have:

As Hancock, Rayleigh, and Shaki make their way toward Luffy, Imu would finally act on their hatred towards Shirahoshi/Poseidon and call for the destruction of Fishman Island and the extermination (or enslavement) of all Fishmen and Marinefolk. While on the island, Hancock (along with Rayleigh and Shaki) will help the Fishmen and Marinefolk evacuate the island onto Noah, fulfilling her debt to Fisher Tiger. The Sea Kings would then pull Noah by the power of Poseidon to the surface and into the New World.

[pure raven]

I think destroying a whole weapon or trying to along with a whole race is kinda risky

[pure raven]

hello , my bad mod , im sorry , wont happen again.

It’s not like imu just goes around blowing up islands. Most of it’s calculated. There’s 2 possible points you can point two. God valley which makes a lot of sense why that was removed and luccia which has justification bc it’s a rebel country that’s harboring fugitives

[edgy salmon]

Seems like roger and wb didn't seem really have any visions for the world. While the Yonko big mom kaidou have visions. They both desire a world of equality based on the way they grew up. Big mom grew up around several different races and wants these races to gather at the same height as her. Kaidou grew on the battlefield and believed everyone was equal on said battlefield and wants the idea world to become a battlefield. I wonder If any other pirates have an ideal world they want to create. Roger and wb seemed to just enjoy being pirates. Wb only csred about preservation. And roger protected the celestials so I doubt he had the right to userp them after

Oda seems to be saving drowning for a specific character since we have never seen anyone drown. Some think it's blackbeard but I'm unsure

[harsh saffron]

The thing is, we don’t know Rogers final goal, dream, and we won’t until we find out Luffy’s. Maybe not a tyrannical dream, but surely something that would upset the status quo, otherwise I can’t imagine why else we would still be kept in the dark about it.

[ashen surge]

We do know that Roger's dream was the same as Luffys

And it's not like every pirate is some idealist who has very well thought ideas of how they want to change the society, most of them are just outlaws casted away by a corrupt system and society that feeds on creating crime, discrimination and unsafety.

[edgy salmon]

Yeah I agree. I was just pointing out how rogers is different. He also doesn't have any territory

[ashen surge]

We don't know that

[edgy salmon]

Oda said roger didn't claim territory under his flag. That's literally the quality in seeking freedom and not conquering that comfirmed to Ray that luffy was rogers inheritor

[ashen surge]

where

[ashen surge]

Do you think Imu would be such a petty character who actually cares about some interspecies racism between humans and merfolk?

[candid stratus]

I think territories actually came into play after Roger kick started the great pirate era. Sure they existed before but with probably really went big with the rise of piracy. This is all speculation really. I would also think that Roger would come to aid if any of his friends all across the world really asked for it. But since there weren't that many big pirates going crazy there was no real need for it, hence he likely never had to "claim" any territory

[ashen surge]

Yeah that's true, Big Mom did have hers because she was building her own kingdom in the first place

[edgy salmon]

Rogers whole thing is about not conquering lands and stuff. And just being free on the seas

[tawny path]

Theory: the reason why mihawk carries a cross on his neck is because he has faced the demon in zoros eye before in his life. What do you think? Hard to become true but this thought gives me goosebumps

[candid stratus]

Well we don't "know" that but it's a safe assumption. Look at it from Luffy's perspective. The only reason why he claimed fishman island for example was to protect his friends there. Same with Wano. If there were no direct threats to them he wouldn't do any of it, just like probably Roger didn't. Doesn't mean he wouldn't protect them.

[edgy salmon]

We do know that roger didn't wanna conquer. The story says it multiple times. No one is saying roger wouldn't protect his friends. This isn't a discussion about whether roger would go and aid friends on troubke

[candid stratus]

Yes but claiming territories isn't the same as conquering them as we've seen.

[edgy salmon]

It essentially is. A king controls his country. Doesn't necessarily mean the he is creating a negative environment. Conquering isn't negative. Its just something roger didn't want to do in the pursuit of ultimate freedom

[candid stratus]

The point is Roger didn't claim any territory under his flag, (as you stated in this comment) because there was no need to. If he was around in the time after the great pirate era started he most definitely would tell his friends to fly his flag, claiming the territory in doing so.

[edgy salmon]

I disagree with your reasoning for why he didn't decide to conquer territory. Anyway I have a different question about a completely different topic in one piece

[candid stratus]

Well that's fine. I'm not basing it on facts, but on logic, so you can disagree all you want. The fact is that we don't know, so logic is the best way to go at it.

[edgy salmon]

I believe your logic is flawed. But anyway the question I was gonna ask moving on from this. The story says these things about roger it isn't a mentality based on the era. It is just how he thinks tbh

Anyway we see that sai has the no.13 on his body. And chinjao has the no. 12 on his body. I was wondering if in a fb before chinjao came to power that we will see the 11th happo navy leader. With the number 11 on his body

[edgy salmon]

What is amusing

[candid stratus]

Maybe take this in another channel like serious or manga. Doesn't really belong in theories

[edgy salmon]

Is that so

[ashen surge]

Monarchy apologism on #manga-theories

[brave warren]

youtube.com/watch?v=57TBd8_1E9Y

[ashen surge]

!theories please include some summary and your own thoughts of the video

[lone hedge]

Please refrain from using manga-theories for joke theories, casual chit-chat, power scaling, bounty predictions or low-effort memes. This channel is for serious discussion- please read the channel description. Posts here must be in paragraph form, preferably with evidence, not just a one line open question.

[brave warren]

i think this makes a lot of sense it was posted after a chat in #genral for refference as it contained minor spoilers it was posted here

[steady prism]

@hasty pecan not the place for one-line theories. Please read the channel’s description.

@tawny path interesting idea, could you please elaborate? We ask people to provide some some evidence/reasoning to support their idea for it to be considered a theory. Possession itself isn’t a foreign concept in the OP world, but a literal demon is. Why did this happen to him? When did this happen? Are there other examples of characters to corroborate that premise? Feel free to edit your original post with whichever details you decide on. If it was just an idea you wanted to share as-is, then please use #manga moving forward

@brave warren per the channel’s description, we always ask people to summarize the video’s premise and some of the evidence/reasoning they use in text form. Links are fine but are never a substitution for that. Else, #manga is a fine place to share links and let people watch it as-is

[rose axle]

Just saw this(https://www.reddit.com/gallery/yduz8l) post on the subreddit and things make quite a lot of sense now

Vegapunk actually was able to perfectly recreate a devil fruit but when they realized what the World Government would obviously do with it (mass produce and feed to their Marine soldiers) there was no way Vegapunk could just let them have that and lied to the WG about it being a failure.
Well, that stuff happened about 10 years ago (our time) so how is this relevant now? Obviously because Ryokogyou, who seemed very comfortable being at Mary Geoise, just came back from Wano where he fought a pink dragon and couldn't help himself but to note how odd it was and that he never heard of such an ability. (https://i.imgur.com/iOmuNut.png)

Now shortly after that the world government sends CP-0 out to assassinate Vegapunk. The reason for that being them having found out Vegapunk did create a perfect artificial devil fruit and lied to them about it. This can only mean their allegiances aren't in order and Vegapunk most likely is in contact with the revolutionary army. Something we the readers got confirmation of this very last chapter

[brave warren]

ok i did not know thanks for informing 👍

[ashen surge]

That's a good theory, I never really bought the idea that the Wg or marines would've rejected the fruit

[candid stratus]

This also makes more sense now that we know VP has some connection to Dragon. A very solid theory. Much better than VP thinking the df is a failure just because it makes a pink dragon or whatever some people were saying. There's being a perfectionist and then there's being irrational.

[balmy mica]

Ok idk about the first part of this comment but yeah luffy has shown zoan and paramecia traits so maybe he will get logia too? This would actually fit with the resin theory since this user says that when rubber melts it becomes like sap from a tree, and that is exactly resin. So perhaps if luffy gets hot enough to melt himself he will turn into resin with logia properties? We have seen him melt a little just when he died/awakened his fruit. He is only limited by imagination after all. Also since blackbeard has a paramecia and logia (popular theory is that he will get a mythical zoan) he would have collected all 3 types individually, while luffy would have all 3 types naturally in the same fruit. Remember when one of Oda’s favorite scenes was when Robin rubbed a resin like substance on Usopp? The resin theory might have been correct all this time. Lemme know what you think

[candid stratus]

I somehow doubt we are going to get a second "haha nope you were wrong, it's actually not the hito hito no mi etc." In gear 5th he seemed very malleable already and we've seen him "melt" or whatever when awakening. After learning what his df is I interpret that as his body was going into the "full on freedom" mode and he temporarily wasn't controlling it, because he was just gaining consciousness. Since he wasn't controlling anything, it looked like melting resin. It might be head-canon but that's what I'm going with for now. I probably explained it badly but I'm sure you get what I mean.

[balmy mica]

No this is no second awakening, since luffy is only limited by imagination he can actually try to melt himself the same way he did like with gear 2 but more (or he could use other means) but this wont be a second awakening it will just be luffy deciding to use his df like this and it fully depends on whether luffy will utilize this. Also, because he wasn’t fully in control of himself, nika might have stopped the melting process? Idk we will see but imo you shouldn’t completely count out the resin theory

[candid stratus]

I think the whole resin theory can now just be discounted as a hint to how Luffy will use it and how it will work when awakened which has arguably already happened.

[steady prism]

!theories @pure raven Not the place for one-line ideas. Please read the channel’s description.

[lone hedge]

Please refrain from using manga-theories for joke theories, casual chit-chat, power scaling, bounty predictions or low-effort memes. This channel is for serious discussion- please read the channel description. Posts here must be in paragraph form, preferably with evidence, not just a one line open question.

[balmy mica]

Yeah exactly and I feel like we have bullied pringles a bit too much for this since it is still possible

[candid stratus]

I haven't bullied anyone about this, I don't think. And definitely not Pringles at that since I don't even know who that is haha

[balmy mica]

Well it was kinda like a lot of ppl said “the resin theory is the dumbest theory ever” after gear 5 was nothing like resin and eventually he left the server and deleted his account. Kinda sad since his theory did make sense and especially now we can see it as a byproduct of what gear 5 is capable of doing. If anyone got Pringles in his contacts please let me know

[steady prism]

@amber sluice not the channel for one-line theories. Read the channel description.

[raven geyser]

Not a confirmation, marines don’t have an idea about all of VP works and even if they dude not everyone will known if everything

[primal cargo]

What ? Pringles' resin post was great, it was used by youtubers and everything
The community was really all over the place during that break week and the resin theory was very far from the dumbest.
I'd have had Resin any day over the Hito Hito model Hanuman

[balmy mica]

It was after the nika awakening that ppl said it’s a dumb shit theory everyone was clowing on that theory afterwards

[primal cargo]

Well that's fucked up, especially since 1043 really made it look like Luffy was going liquid. And that hasn't come up again or been explained, maybe your logia thing could work though I think Nika is enough to have a lot of fun until the end of the series

[balmy mica]

Yeah this is fore sure his peak, but maybe in order to defeat imu or blackbeard he does need some kind of powerup and like I said it can very well be achieved through gear 5

[candid stratus]

I always thought it was a good theory. I wasn't aware pringles was the person who came up with it. First time I saw it was from Yude-ron on youtube.

[balmy mica]

Wait yuderon made a vid on that? Idk I only know of this picture 1 sec

[candid stratus]

I'm pretty sure he mentioned it yes

[balmy mica]

Yeah this one

[candid stratus]

Again I just don't want anyone thinking I'm shitting on Pringles or anything. I don't know the guy and I think the reisin fruit theory is very good. I'm just doubtful that it's ever going to be adressed in the story specifically as a resin.

[primal cargo]

Wait this isn't deleted at all
#manga-theories message

[balmy mica]

Well probably it is gonna be adressed by the japanese word of resin or just whatever luffy would call it since he names his transformations himself

[balmy mica]

OH THANKS when I was looking for it I saw Deleted User claim that he owned the theory. Glad that Pringles didn’t delete his account but he left the server tho

[slim vale]

Ok hear me out we saw in water 7 that cipher pol excels at integrating their agents into the civilian population of an island. What if the revolting citizens of the sorbet kingdom were all cipher pol agents and the way this factors into the story is Bonney recognizes lucci as the lead revolutionary of the revolt in the sorbet kingdom

[slim ravine]

Oda took a lot more inspiration from Greek mythology than we thought. Ancient weapons aside, the characters themselves are playing out the old mythology in a twisted wonderful way. Imu is Zeus. Blackbeard is Cratos. Luffy is Atlas. Ace is Prometheus. Sabo is both Menoetius and Epimetheus. The story has played out just about the same. I could write out a big long theory about how it all ties, but I think you’ll find doing the research yourself is the move. Reading it for yourself will allow you to make your own conclusions. I will say that my favorite part is that Prometheus’s brother Epimetheus’s name means “afterthought”, which is what most consider Sabo to be. Let me know what you come up with 🤟🏼.

[paper bloom]

Franky is Hephaestus and Chpper is Asclepius

[hard elbow]

Kuma’s special race could be the three eyed race like pudding, it’s possible bc we have never seen his forehead

[snow mauve]

I believe near the end of the story, perhaps with Pluton, I’m not really sure how but I predict that the Red Line is going to be blown up, the result is all the worlds oceans combining into the legendary All Blue.

[snow mauve]

Atlas was forced to carry the heavens on his shoulders after losing a war with Zeus

[west summit]

I think this is pretty common theories with huge possibility yes

[west summit]

Good pov, but it's also possible because the seraphim is functional now and they don't need vegapunk no more

[candid stratus]

The red line being blown up would make a lot of sense, especially if it's done by Luffy. The collapsing red line would also destroy Fishman island, hence Sharleys prediction would come true.

[edgy salmon]

I doubt it. I believe luffy will destroy mariejois and fishman island with an attack

[candid stratus]

Which is what I said?

[grim crescent]

I actually believe that the last island, also known as Laugh tale is exactly beneath the redline which fractures the world into two separate continents, or it would somehow appear out of nowhere, but where is the question

I don't think its at the surface level of the sea, because that would be impossible not to spot that given the fact that navigators have almost covered up the entire island. It's rather hidden under the sea

[candid stratus]

How did Roger reach it then? It's kind of fishy I don't know

[edgy salmon]

No it's not what you said lol. You said he destroys it via a Canon blast from a ship. I'm clearly saying I believe he will destroy it using an attack his own arsenal. Not the weaponry of a ship

I didn't say luffy will destroy the wall with a weapon. I said he would destroy it with an attack.

The gaon Canon is a powerful weapon of franky.
Pluton's Canon is also a weapon

[candid stratus]

I said no such thing. I said it would make even more sense if it was done by Luffy. If you understood that as Luffy using an ancient weapon then that was poor wording by me. Although I wouldn't discount the possibility an ancient weapon would be used or something else for that matter.

[edgy salmon]

I believe luffys final most powerful attack. Whatever kind of attack it is. Has to be a visual representation of him reaching the pinnacle of power and surpassing roger rocks and the previous joyboy.

We already seen him do island fists. The only way to display his level of power would be his attack to cause such a shock wave it travels to the bottom of the ocean

I don't see any other feat that could give that given the layout of one piece

[edgy salmon]

Mariejois and fishman islands contrast is pretty interesting. And essentially reflects the peoples status in the world

[plucky tulip]

i think the world government in the void century era were pirates

[steady prism]

!theories

@fading cedar not the place to ask for theories. Either search it yourself or ask in #manga please.

@plucky tulip could you please add a few sentences of evidence/reasoning to support this idea? Else, this post would be better served in #manga

[lone hedge]

Please refrain from using manga-theories for joke theories, casual chit-chat, power scaling, bounty predictions or low-effort memes. This channel is for serious discussion- please read the channel description. Posts here must be in paragraph form, preferably with evidence, not just a one line open question.

[magic bane]

I rather think its because Greenbull saw Momo in his DragonForm which confirmed to the WG that VP actually CAN clone DF's. And since luffy apparently has the most dsngerous DF and awakened it, they want to prevent a 2nd nika nika no mi

[primal cargo]

I saw a point on Reddit the other day about Usopp's Firebird Star, that I think complements my Pirate Kingdom theory really well
(#manga-theories message)
So the overall theory is that the seas of the whole world used to be dominated by pirates, and after coming into power the WG erased the whole era from history in an attempt to suppress the idea of piracy and kill the pirate spirit forever.
Well, we first hear about the (hypothetical) Pirate Kingdom in the Ohara flashback, and coming right out of this flashback we get the moment where the Strawhats declare war on the WG. And how is this physically done ? With Firebird Star, i.e a phoenix.
I think this represents the pirate spirit reborn. After "rebuilding itself" for 800 years, piracy has reached the point where it can challenge its enemy again, and it does so through the Strawhats.

[steady prism]

@long maple not the right channel. Ask in #manga

[undone zephyr]

So what if blackbeard gets pluton. What if it isn't just a powerful ship but must be fueled by devil fruit powers/users. Blackbeard irl has the heaviest ship in the era, so i feel like Teach is gonna get his hands on it. Also im thinking Luffy's df is Uranus (uranus is the personification of the sky and gear 5's potential was mostly shown in the clouds)

[pure raven]

I doubt we are gonna have a back to back retcon of Luffy fruit. I’d think to would be odd not to call it that then and I think imu fits it more. I can see pluton but tbh I wonder if df even existed that far back Ig we will see tho. How will bb get pluton tho?

[undone zephyr]

Yea the luffy thing is a fair argument, but i think theres still a lot about it that we dont know yet (vp will most likely reveal, and probably pass his work onto chopper and franky). Also law is currently destroying blackbeard's ship, and law also knows about pluton's location. I could see blackbeard going to a shaken wano and digging it up

[pure raven]

I doubt law is gonna give to bb. Unless bb has crazy mind break powers. law can take torture. Wano proved that

[undone zephyr]

True, but what if bepo is the one being threatened, law has a soft spot for that wholesome man

[pure raven]

That is true. I think law could figure smth out tho. But maybe then

[primal cargo]

Great point, I didn't realize Law has that Pluton knowledge on top of everything else. Blackbeard has already been speculated to be getting Pluton because he could destroy the walls of Wano with his Gura Gura.
If Blackbeard captures Law and gets his Poneglyphs and Pluton out of him, then this fight on Winner Island will turn out to be as impactful as BB vs Ace on Banaro Island

[steady prism]

@royal spruce Battle matchups are better asked in #manga . Please read the channel’s description

[wispy wadi]

considering he punched kaido with a fist the size of an island from the clouds tbrough a floating island and into the core of the planet miles deep underground, sending a shockwave to the bottom of the ocean seems underwhelming, i feel like his final attack will splinter the red line destroying maroijwa[idk how to spell]

[steady prism]

@indigo elbow please read the channel description. You’re welcome to engage with any theory that’s already being discussed or provide your own.

[indigo elbow]

The final strawhat grand fleet is going be made of all the yonko except Blackbeard. Shanks i don't need to explain, they need save sanji's waifu so big mom is on board, Kaido just met joyboy so he's going to fan girl, buggy/crocodile/mihawk all have history with luffy (and zoro w/ mihawk) so if it's an all out war with the world government a team-up makes sense since cross guild is fighting the marines and if it's to stop Blackbeard I'd assume he's killed Shanks and Mihawk wants to avenge his boy.

I'm also counting two admirals, kiji & tora

[misty citrus]

I think Law and Hancock would have to join too though

[indigo elbow]

Law isn't making it out of his fight with BB.

[visual merlin]

I don't really get this. Shanks you would still need to explain. BM and Kaido if they are even alive would not join just because pudding kinda likes sanji or because kaido likes the idea of joyboy existing. And Buggy, Croc, and Mihawk working with the strawhats wouldn't mean they'd joined the fleet. Same for the admirals. If you mean just that these people will help the strawhats at some point sure potentially

[pure raven]

Bm like is not gonna join the sh. She actively hates them. Kaido saw Luffy was joyboy and tried to kill him all the same. Kaido isnt gonna stop doing what he does bc he’s seen joyboy

[indigo elbow]

I think yall are putting too much emphasis on joining. No they're not going to exchange sake cups, think roger & garp at god valley and the recent team-up in wano. But just like we know garp was holding rogers water at god valley, we all know who the HNIC was in the trio, and he took kaidos head, metaphorically.

[misty citrus]

Well then they wouldn't be part of the Grand Fleet

[indigo elbow]

They'll be fighting under the strawhats so that's mere semantics.

[visual merlin]

Which is why I said sure if you just mean they may help out the strawhats in some way eventually, but the grand fleet is a very specific term to use there. They won't have anything to do with the grand fleet, they'll (some of them) just be people that help luffy like many people have in the past

thats not semantics

helping the strawhats and being in the grand fleet is a big difference

there's just no reason to force that term into it. a few of the people you mentioned may indeed end up helping luffy though yes

[indigo elbow]

Let's not forget every member of the grand fleet wanted to kill luffy before the strawhats saved them. I think Oda can make it work with the yonko and admirals. So I take back my earlier concession, Strawhat Grand fleet baby!

[visual merlin]

So you're sticking to them joining the grand fleet...?

or just saying they may help the strawhats

[indigo elbow]

Minus Barto, he was a simp from the jump.

[visual merlin]

?

[indigo elbow]

Yes, after Aokiji and Aramaki who even knows what's left of the Big mom and Beast pirates.

[iron current]

there was a time i believed that as well, that there would be a Beast Pirate Ship and a ship led by Katakuri, atm idk if we ever get to that part or if people just join a side in the big war eventually, i also dont see Law dying here, its possible but with Odas trackrecord i dont see it happening

[visual merlin]

Then we'd come back to that just being a stretch realistically. The grand fleet is a big thing that may never really get new members, for all of those people to choose to bend the knee to luffy would just not happen

maybe a few of them could help out like shanks, aokiji fuji

but its unlikely they'd ever actually bend a knee to luffy let alone actually join a fleet, and then BM and Kaido have their own issues on top of probably being dead

[iron current]

yeah i agree, so far the Grand Fleet hasnt even dont the big thing that Oda teased, so besides the different crews in the fleet getting new members i dont see it atm that like completely new ships completely join and drink from the sake cup aso

[visual merlin]

if people were to join the fleet it'd be like the minks or samurai or people like that

[indigo elbow]

Isn't Barto a cannibal? Bar of entry is pretty low if u ask me

[visual merlin]

Im guessing this is the joke but its not about a bar, its just those characters are unlikely to want ot join

[iron current]

would Katakuri potentially work with Luffy, sure, would he be able to convince his brothers and sisters to do the same, i have my doubts and working together doesnt mean Katakuri would submit himself to Luffy, is it possible, sure, is it likely, not for me at least especially considering that Oda wants to finish the story

[tranquil estuary]

Ok I figured out Usopps next step as a character. He's gonna get some new tech from Vega Punk in the Egghead arc. Next arc is Elbaf. Luffy is gonna do something stupid and Usopp is gonna have to fight giants and put his life on the line for Luffy.

[visual merlin]

Im starting to doubt we get elbaf but potentially

[tranquil estuary]

Also so since Nami has a part of big mom's soul in her climatact. Maybe Brook is gonna be able to empower her attacks or something? She's far too weak at the moment imo. I wouldnt be surprised that when its straw hats vs black beard pirates the straw hats are gonna win by making up for each others weaknesses while the black beard pirates dont work together.

[indigo elbow]

Without significant buffs, the grand fleet is severely under powered. Where is Oda gonna get time to invest in new crews when we already know the yonko crews from top to bottom. All you need is like two or three seraphim to sink the current grand fleet.

[steady prism]

Since this is a theories channel, please organize your speculations around a premise. It just looks like you're chaining several thoughts that aren't reinforcing your original Ussop post. Else, these ideas would be best put in #manga

[tranquil estuary]

I guess my theory is that were approaching a Sabaody part 1 again if the weaker straw hats dont get stronger.

[iron current]

See the problem is that anyone significant from either Kaidos or BM crew who would actually add any power to the fleet most likely wouldn't just join the fleet

[steady prism]

Understood, and you're always welcome to edit your original post with those thoughts.

Another thing to keep in mind that there's more to those upgrades than just battle matchups. Yes, from a reader's POV, some SHs need upgrades. But how could Oda make it make sense in the story? How does Franky's "bad timeline" and overall storyline tie with VP? How does Nami's climatact technology mesh with VP's AirCon tech? What ties does Ussop's character have to Elbaf and what would be the most apt upgrade for him to combat Auger? There's more to those upgrades than just EOS matchups.

[pure raven]

I have a small short theory that after the battle with Queen, Sanji's feelings toward female enemies will be heavily reduced and cause him to be more effective against female enemies

[radiant crown]

Zoro would have to follow up on his promise if that happened

[steady prism]

!theories
@pure raven could you please elaborate? A few sentences justifying that idea would suffice.
@pure raven not the place for one-line battle matchup theories. Please read the channel's description.
@lunar whale what-if ideas are better suited in #manga .

[lone hedge]

Please refrain from using manga-theories for joke theories, casual chit-chat, power scaling, bounty predictions or low-effort memes. This channel is for serious discussion- please read the channel description. Posts here must be in paragraph form, preferably with evidence, not just a one line open question.

[steady prism]

Of course, but just fyi I've said this to Synergy above you, but purely battle-matchup theories are discouraged unless there's some evidence/reasoning that explain why they'd fight (character motivations, unresolved conflicts, etc.). Anyway, please feel free to post your theory anytime.

[pure raven]

I'm basically saying due to the Germa transformation there could be reduced emotions towards female enemies causing him to be in battles with female enemies if that makes sense

[snow mauve]

Ussop will die in the final war. He’ll sacrifice his life to save Luffy, and he’ll forever be remembered as a brave warrior of the sea.

[candid stratus]

I'm pretty sure the entire point of Sanji asking Zoro to off him if he isn't himself anymore, was also dependant on Sanji's relationship with females. It's a deeply rooted thing for Sanji. Not only because Zeff told him to not hit women, but also because the only people who showed him any kindness when he was a kid, were females (his sister and his mom). It's deeply rooted in him to the point it's not just a quirk but a personality trait, that will imo never change. If it does that means he isn't himself and Zoro would be justified to end him as per Sanji's request.

[hybrid ivy]

Although I don't see that happened. Ironically Usopp is already the brave warrior of the sea since like Arlong Park (since he manned up and faced the fishman who was beyond him)

He's a normal human being who despite all his fears are facing all the inhuman dangers beyond him. He's not Zoro, Luffy or Sanji who can face all those inhuman dangers with no fear. He knows his limits and he does not let his fear get to him and he mans up when it matters.

That's the definition of brave warrior of the sea

You don't need to be strong. You just have to courageous and face the challenges when the odds are against you and you don't even have the tools to deal with it.

On a sidenote:

I do wonder how Oda will handle the final saga. Will BB be the after IMU is dealt with or the other way around or will they both be dealt with at the same timeline ?

[fierce patrol]

all of the 4 original yonko first commanders will ally with the straw hats, Katakuri and Luffy bonded already in WCI and now Bigmom is dead he will step up for the Bigmom pirates as captain and will ally with luffy in the final war. King was a huge follower of joy boy and now it is confirmed luffy is joy boy king will come to luffy aide, Marco is already allied with the straw hats, and i believe shanks will die to blackbeard and ben will step up to help luffy stop him.

[manic torrent]

Woah that would be a sick fight

[manic torrent]

I would love to see that

[vague olive]

tbh it was luck lol

[lapis mauve]

If you watched GrandLineReview's theory of Mihawk being Yoru itself, then this is the theory I came up with regarding Imu:

If Dracule Mihawk is the equivalent to Yoru, What is stopping Imu-Sama being the equivalent to Sun God Nika's Spear? The Spear holds mythological meaning to the SUN and we all know the Sun GOD Nika wields a spear in the silhouette Oda shows us. I am starting to think Imu is parallel to Mihawk in the sense that it is waiting for its owner or wielder to come and manifested itself. So perhaps she picked Luffy and Blackbeard and Vivi as potential wielders to hold her since she found no one else worth.. The spear holds three meaning: spears are known for Dreams and often tied to phallic symbols, in which one is set to vanquish and conquer (power) all, one to defend itself or the dream itself. I believe Blackbeard is the phallic symbol of the spear dreams set to conquer all. Vivi is the phallic symbol of the spear in defending oneself. Luffy, however is the strangest one and I think he is the spear of dreams. This could perhaps hint that Vegapunk's experiment with weapons and devil fruit could have been hinted at with Imu being a Spear aka Ancient Weapon in itself that has ate a human human devil fruit. Now why did the spear betray its JoyBoy aka Sun God Nika? We all know at the Reverie Arc, ALL Kings threw their sword down before the throne, and the Spear is known as the "King of all Weapons" in Chinese mythology. In Arthurian legends, the spear is known for male fertility and is usually paired with a Grail (known for female fertility) and we know that Imu is shaped like a grail which I also find most fascinating. The Spear is also parallel to Zeus' thunder bolts and in Norse mythology, the spear Gungnir never missed its mark such as when Imu marked an X on Lulusia, lines of light beamed down towards Lulusia making it nonexistent. So the question is, Where is the spear that Sun God Nika wielded?

[lapis mauve]

Wouldn't that be similar to Shiki's levitating devil fruit ability though?

[ashen surge]

I personally have no idea what you’re talking about

[hoary hatch]

Youtuber had a silly theory video. He points out during the video a few details that actually disprove it (mainly that we have seen a pic of Mihawk as a child) and he isn't seriously arguing that Mihawk is most definitely a manifestation of the sword that he is carrying, but at the same time the youtuber does flesh out a theory with details from the manga on how objects in One Piece sometimes have a will and personality of their own (especially shown with Enma the sword) and how something like this could happen in the series.

[lapis prairie]

99.9% of youtube theories are dogshit or uncredited to the creator

They feel the need to put out three videos a week, and are unoriginal and don't respect viewer's intelligence.

[misty citrus]

Stelly will be blamed for the Sabo call. I'm pretty sure the Marines heard the part of the call where Sabo mentioned seeing something in the Throne Room so it's likely they would start asking questions.

We know Stelly took a huge interest in the empty throne during the Reverie. With him being Sabo's brother, it would be very easy for the Gorosei to say he was secretly working for his brother Sabo all this time. They could easily blame him for sitting on the Empty Throne as part of Sabo's plan against the WG.

[misty citrus]

It would also be a fitting end if Stelly died being praised by the commoners he hated

[ashen surge]

!theories this channel isn't meant for dropping links to external sites at least without some description

[lone hedge]

Please refrain from using manga-theories for joke theories, casual chit-chat, power scaling, bounty predictions or low-effort memes. This channel is for serious discussion- please read the channel description. Posts here must be in paragraph form, preferably with evidence, not just a one line open question.

[ashen surge]

I was just being snarky to the original poster that they're forming an argument based on some video that they didn't even link. I don't think Nikas silhouette weapons have any meaning except the fact that spears are simple weapons which were favored by low tech civilizations, I think the spear in the silhouette is supposed to be interepted that Nika is a very old legend. To add to that, spear isn't the "king of all weapons". It's not even a mythology thing but in chinese weapon arts, spear, sabre, staff and a straight sword are called "king of weapons" as a group as they are considered the most important ones.

[steady prism]

@junior latch not the right channel to ask questions. Please read the channel’s description and use #manga or #manga-serious for all questions

[rose axle]

I rewrote my theory about Vegapunks assassination a couple days ago. Would be great if you'd upvote/interact with it on reddit but I'll also leave it here https://reddit.com/yiarns

The real reason the World Government is trying to assassinate Vegapunkt

A couple days ago u/Moog_Latan posted this theory on the "failed" Devil Fruit that Momo ate and it immediately made me connect some dots here. So lets get one thing straight first

#Vegapunk succeeded in creating a perfect artificial Devil Fruit.
The only thing we do not know whether Momo can do with his Devil Fruit is enter the hybrid form. Apart from that he was able to create and manipulate flame clouds and shoot this dragon laser thing out of his mouth with which he almost killed Ryokogyou. To me it would seem that those abilities would be far more difficult to recreate than simply turning into a (half-) dragon.

Now if it's the case that Vegapunk did create such a fruit, the reason for them not to tell the World Government is fairly obvious. If the World Government knew that, they could simply mass produce extremely powerful Devil Fruits, feed them to their soldiers and create an unstoppable force. This is basically the exact same thing Kaido did (or tried to do) with his crew and subordinates. He gave the most powerful ones the real fruits and fed the fodder the Smiles that still made them way more powerful. Now imagine instead of a guy with his head sticking out of a chickens anus you're fighting 20 marines that can transform into dragons and shoot laser beams at you. Or why even stop at Zoans? Who says Vegapunk couldn't recreate the Logias or Paramecias the Admirals use? Why even stop at giving them to Marine Soldiers? Objects surely are far more obedient. There are virtually no limits to this.
The Marines would become truly unstoppable.

And that is the reason Vegapunk couldn't do it. So they lied and the World Government believed them.

They believed Vegapunk but they were definitely suspicious at that point, and this is exactly where the key to this whole thing comes into play. Ryokogyou.

In his fight against Momo and the Scabbards he makes a very interesting remark. As an admiral who seems to be perfectly fine and agreeing with the World Governments' and Celestial Dragons' rule over the world, he probably knows a thing or two about the legendary (mythical) Devil Fruits going around the world. If there were 2 Dragon fruits, him and the World Government would certainly know about it, but his fight against Momo was the first time he heard of something like that.

Now after he got driven off Wano he'd have reported that to Akainu or the Elders and that could obviously only mean one thing.
Vegapunk created the Devil Fruit and hid it from them.

From the World Governments point of view this can only mean that Vegapunks allegiances aren't what they should be. It takes no genius to deduce that Vegapunk might then also have some ties to the Revolutionary Army, considering the time he spent with Kuma during the experiments. So they have only one option left to go with

Send out CP-0 to assassinate the worlds most useful scientist

[ashen surge]

Would you mass produce artificial dragon fruits

[rose axle]

Caesar did

[ashen surge]

dragon fruits

[rose axle]

Oh, misread. Well just think about having like 30 dragons. What are you gonna do about that? Cry and die?

[ashen surge]

And what happens when those 30 dragons decide to turn against you

[manic torrent]

Tru

[rose axle]

Doubt the Marines have a lack of obedient soldiers

[manic torrent]

I have a wierd but could be tru theorist

[ashen surge]

Marines are obedient because they have people above them in the hierarchy, if you suddenly give them personal powers on par with weapons of mass destruction, they are not going to be obedient for long

[manic torrent]

Theory*

[ashen surge]

Anyway, we don't know what vegapunk tried to achieve when he was extracting Kaidos lineage factor of him so we don't know why it was deemed as a failure.

[rose axle]

CP-Agents? Akainu? Ryokogyou? Even still the Marines/WG have people capable of taking them out or install a fail save in them. Like Sure, here take this insanely powerful Dragon Devil Fruit but you're only going to get it with this chip in your neck that makes your head explode if you turn against us

[manic torrent]

Dragon was actually a marine A fable that could support the theory as well, namely a story that speaks of a king with 4 followers – a bird, monkey, dog, and pheasant. The bird left after realizing the king was evil and told his comrades the truth, but the others decided to stay for different reasons. The tale links to the Chinese mythological depiction and might point to Dragon leaving his admiral position after seeing how corrupted the World Government was.

[ashen surge]

You were suggesting mass production of artificial dragon devil fruits

[iron current]

tbh i always thought the whole "its a failure" thing was just so the WG doesnt use the fruit

[rose axle]

Because that's the fruit we've seen being recreated. Normal Zoans or Paramecias for foot soldiers would also make them way stronger but easy to kill off by their superiors. As I said, the opportunities are basically limitless

[ashen surge]

Your reasoning: Vegapunk hid the dragon fruit because otherwise WG could massproduce the dragon fruit for foot soldiers and my argument is that WG would never in a million years do that

[rose axle]

He could mass produce any Zoan which still would be an extremely strong weapon for the WG. The Dragon DF was just the most extreme but realistic example. It's literally what Kaido did. But on a way larger and more effective scale

[ashen surge]

Now if it's the case that Vegapunk did create such a fruit, the reason for them not to tell the World Government is fairly obvious. If the World Government knew that, they could simply mass produce extremely powerful Devil Fruits, feed them to their soldiers and create an unstoppable force.

It's really not obvious, you're assuming a lot of things here:

1. Vegapunks research on artificial devil fruits was a secret - unlikely
2. Vegapunk was trying to recreate Kaidos devil fruit and not his Oni lineage since Vegapunk was tasked to research the gigantification
3. The fruit initially created was a dragon devil fruit - I'm a strong believer that Kaidos unawakened form is just a fish fruit which he hadn't awakened yet when he was being experimented on by Vegapunk.

The only facts we have: Vegapunk experimented on Kaidos lineage factor AND the fruit was deemed as a failure, everything else is just headcanon

[rose axle]

1. It wasn't secret, he just told everyone that it failed and he couldn't do it
2. Vegapunks research on recreating Devil Fruits is literally what allowed Caesar to produce Smiles (which are terrible in comparison). Could have easily just worked on both subjects
3. Then shouldn't Momo have been a fish? Like sure, it's a fish fish fruit but it's still a mythical Zoan

Well, that's why people write theories, no? We try to fill in the gaps. Sure it can be completely wrong but I think it's all very plausible

[ashen surge]

1. We are talking about a singular fruit that was deemed to be a failure. So vegapunk lied to the WG that he wasn't able to recreate devil fruit powers artificially and then he moved over to develope Pacifistas who checks notes have artificially recreated devil fruit powers of marine admirals
2. This is true, maybe something happened in Punk Hazard during the decades it was sitting in there and it was altered before Momo ate it.

[steady prism]

@manic torrent not the place for random shanks thoughts, take that to #manga please
@lucid grail please read the channel’s description. Wait until you get pinged.

[rose axle]

1. They have singular attacks/abilities from certain DFs which is still very strong but not on the same level as an actual DF
2. I'm also not against the idea of it being awakened but by the same logic this would imply Marco had to have died once in the past to activate his phoenix powers? I'm more on the side that mythical fruits just do what they do at this point in the story

[ashen surge]

I understand the notion that it is very easy to think that Vegapunk lied to the WG about the fruit in question because of his now revealed revo connections but it is very easy to reason otherwise as well

[rose axle]

Sure! I'm never making or arguing for theories with the intention that something 100% has to be in a certain way. I just want to come up with ones that sound fun, logical and interesting. And I think this theory is very plausible and interesting which is why I wanted to share it! If it turns out to be completely wrong that's totally fine. Theorycrafting and having discussions is what I find fun

[ashen surge]

that's completely fair , you can read my kaidos fish fruit theory in here: #manga-theories message

[primal cargo]

You have a reasoning for why the WG might think that way, but I don't see anything in the manga that suggests this is a concern for them. As far as we know the Marines are happy to gather as much military power as possible.
On the contrary, they have shown an ability to indoctrinate agents to the point that they will give their life for their mission. Surely they'd be happy to make these agents as strong as possible. (Similarly to how Spandam was happy to make CP9 stronger maybe)

[ashen surge]

Weren’t they aware which fruits were given to them

[primal cargo]

Wdym

[ashen surge]

I was remembering the fruits were issued by the marines but spandam got them from the underworld I think. What I meant that marines probably are very careful which df’s they distribute to whom

[hoary hatch]

Spandam specifically said that they didn't know what the fruits that the two CP9 agents got were. That is also the scene where we get the comment "you won't know what the fruit is until you eat it" which was often misunderstood to mean that anyone eating a fruit will magically find out what it is called. In reality, the point was that once you eat the fruit and start to experiment with your new powers, you are likely to realize "oh, this one turns me into a giraffe. I guess this is the giraffe giraffe fruit" or "this one gives me the ability to create butter, I guess we should call this butter butter fruit" and so on. There are records of DF users with specific powers, but no picture of what their fruit looks like, and pictures of some fruits that have names and powers recorded.

[ashen surge]

Some fruits have their picture in the encyclopedia

[hoary hatch]

Yes, when someone either drew a picture of the fruit before it was eaten (or drew it from memory after it was eaten) but since DFs are so sought after, the chances that someone didn't just eat it immediately OR that it wasn't sold and resold for high prices multiple times before ending up in the hands (and mouth) of someone rich and powerful are quite low. In both cases, the chances that someone would then update the records are low. Pirates for example are unlikely to send records of what their fruit looked like and the powers it provides just to help public research of DF.

[distant sorrel]

interesting

[slender fulcrum]

I'm calling it. The Devil fruit are AK knowledge and library stored into fruits. That's why they are called as such btw. There is a parallel with Adam and Eve and the apple of knowledge
The Devil Fruits are a kind of f*** you to the WG, the AK devised them to be persistent and to store their knowledge and library in those to keep sruviving forever, plaguing the WG for generations after their demises
Logia are their mastery of the raw elements
Paramecia are their mastery of random property
Zoan are their knowledge about creatures and myths

[ashen surge]

I would love it

[candid stratus]

After the confirmation he has something to do with Dragon, I find it more likely he told them it failed because he didn't want the WG to actually get their hands on a copy of Kaidos df

[shell quartz]

I feel like something bad is gonna happen since when bonney aged luffy to disguise him he got the bad life, hinting that something will go wrong in that arc

[ashen surge]

you didn't read the panel did you

[shell quartz]

oh,

[candid stratus]

I believe there was another unofficial translation that said "a glimpse at a possible future". Obviously wrong but that might be causing the confusion

[shell quartz]

I read it completely wrong I thought it said in a wrong future 💀

[manic torrent]

Maybe

Maybe Her aging doesn’t u look like ur older but it makes u look like you in another reality

[candid stratus]

That’s way to complicated it simply makes you look older. Without all the physical activity you would be doing so you just look weak and old that’s it

[manic torrent]

Ok

[paper kiln]

Really liked this theory

[steady prism]

!theories @tiny hatch not the channel to ask these kind of questions. Please use #manga or #manga-serious instead

[lone hedge]

Please refrain from using manga-theories for joke theories, casual chit-chat, power scaling, bounty predictions or low-effort memes. This channel is for serious discussion- please read the channel description. Posts here must be in paragraph form, preferably with evidence, not just a one line open question.

[distant barn]

Every person with the "will of D" who has died so far has died with a smile: Roger, Ace, Saul all died with a smile. Luffy in Loguetown was also going to die with a smile, but he got saved. We also have seen how all of the people with the D in their names love freedom and have big dreams. All of this leads me to believe that having the "will of D" is related to smiling and freedom.

[ashen surge]

Would you say that it's the will of the ||:D||

[steady prism]

!theories @fresh kite not the place for joke theories, keep those in #manga . If you ever get serious about it, please provide a few sentences of evidence/reasoning to support your premise on germa; You need to say more than just “eyebrows”

[lone hedge]

Please refrain from using manga-theories for joke theories, casual chit-chat, power scaling, bounty predictions or low-effort memes. This channel is for serious discussion- please read the channel description. Posts here must be in paragraph form, preferably with evidence, not just a one line open question.

[hoary hatch]

Related to this, Teach is an exception to this. While Luffy laughed when he thought he was about to be killed by Buggy, Teach groweled and begged for mercy when Whitebeard was about to strike him down. Teach is very atypical for a D in some ways and I think this is for a reason. One theory is that he isn't actually a D. That he added it to his name, perhaps because he knows what it stands for and wants to take advantage of it, but that he isn't actually a member of the "clan" or whatever it is that unites these "enemies of gods."

[reef atlas]

Imu theory bc i am incredibly bored but i had to get this out b4 i sleep and forget about it

What if Imu doesn't have some df that's keeping him alive but just hes from a certain race that lives a really long time (sorta like the giants) i think it would be obvious Imu has haki maybe? But its just Imu has lived so many years and it seems clear the five elders clearly trust him and have probably trusted him for years on end. As far as we're concerned Imu was probably the one who came up with the idea of uniting the many kingdoms all that time ago and he has just continuesly been putting orders out through the the five elders during the years.
Also about Imu/Ims age what if they are just an ancient race that some died out (possibly bc of im/imu?) i hope oda clears up more about Imu/im bc it seems like there will be some more focus on him soon since we're nearing the final arc

[candid stratus]

They might not be human, but I think the likelihood of them being of a race we don't know off, is not very high. It wouldn't be great writing to come up with a new race just for that, especially because iirc it hasn't ever been hinted at to exist. Even now it's questionable if the race Kuma was talking about is new or just one of the ones we already know. Anything major like a new race and for the main villain at that to not be mentioned not even in passing would be a big oversight. Unless I missed the hints.

[reef atlas]

Yeah ig, but im thinking what if its a race from the blank period that wasn't recorded like many other things that weren't recorded. Unless its some strange race that was wiped out a long long time ago that has been forgotten in time and there were only a few survivors who lived through everything

[candid stratus]

I'm not saying it's impossible. I'm saying it wouldn't be great writing to introduce something as major so late in the story.

[neon shoal]

Wait i kinda thought imu’s immortal because of law devil fruit which led to have immortality.

[analog sun]

You know how in chapter 1 Shanks sends the Sea King away with an intense look that appears to be conqueror's haki?

What if it wasn't? What if when he says "get lost" he's actually saying it to the monster who is shocked to be talked to that he just peaces out.

In other words, what if Shanks has, for whatever reason, an ability similar to Shirahoshi and/or voice of all things? What conqueror's haki, and his general affinity for that skill in general, was a red herring to hide an even rarer ability, one that could justify his earning a special place for people as diverse as Roger and the Five Elders?

[pure raven]

But why? And what supports that? Like that’s an issue I always find in theories. It’s kinda random and doesn’t have any backing really. Coc is heavily implied also why would a sea king stop bc he is getting talked to. Roger found shanks as a kid and the 5 elders respect shanks bc he’s a literal yonko and he’s the calmest one. Wb is gonna go to war and kaido and bm are kaido and@bm

[analog sun]

True. there could be nothing more to it, but that could have been said about many things that ended up being more than what they seemed at first. For example: "Why would the straw hat have belonged to Roger before Shanks? We never see him with it! And the hat is special enough because it's Shanks' signature, it's kinda random to want it to be more than that".

As for the other arguments: Roger presumably also met Buggy as a child and was less interested. As for the 5 elders lol, I doubt that it's just because he's a chill yonko, but I guess it's possible

Kinda seems like they would need more than a middle school excuse to make an exception for one of the most wanted criminals in the world to be able to happily waltz into their office, but I guess maybe they're really worried about their popularity and can't pass the chance to be seen with the cool emperor by their guards

Then again I shouldn't insist so much on plausibility or motivation as this is One Piece and those don't always factor too much into whether a theory can be true or not. Take for example the sabo theory satire

[storm current]

I can now say with absolute certainty that one of the ancient weapons will be a giant robot. Just because oda has been setting up the robots are awesome running gag for a while

[waxen mantle]

im still thinking that they have a clone of ace and made a devil fruit similar to the smile fruit that gave ace clone the mera mera no mi

[gritty heath]

Blackbeard being the son of Xebec, what'd you guys think about that theory?

It certainly fits with some of the backstory that we know of BB

[ocean vortex]

thinking rn that the giant robot from the last panel of 1065 is the last ancient weapon

[weak arrow]

I’d say that’s doubtful. I’d say that’s what vegapunk based the invention we saw that defeated the shark off of it.

[sly fjord]

lol this manga chapter is totally proving my theory about the One Piece treasure is about how the world used to be One Piece, and how it split into thousands of islands after some catastrophe

[snow herald]

So a Japanese theory my Japanese wife found is that, one piece is a planet sized ring(red line) and on laugh tale, there is a huge stone for the ring. The ring was supposed to like a wedding ring gift from joy boy to Imu as a sign of his love. But the main event was supposed to be their wedding ceremony. Which was supposed to be in Mariejois. In Japanese Mariejois (マリージョア) sounds like 'marry Joy/joa.

[sly fjord]

ooh i like this theory ^. is there some cultural story that made her think of it?

[fringe elm]

This is awesome, it does make me wonder more about who is Imu and why set the world back hundreds of years… especially if there was a good amount of technology back then

[snow herald]

@sly fjord no idea, it's not really her theory. She found it on some Japanese forum. My wife's theory is that Joy boys real name is Joa.
Imu and Joa

[waxen mantle]

im still thinking that they have a clone of ace and made a devil fruit similar to the smile fruit that gave ace clone the mera mera no mi if they kill if they didnt kill senor pink they now can create logia smile fruit

[snow herald]

Another Japanese theory,
Whenever Oda sensei handwrites 'One Piece' he puts an X in the O.
The Japanese fans predict this has some hidden meaning.

[slender fulcrum]

I have a theory regarding imu being one of the leader of the AK and he betrayed his kin for power ( he or she... whatever it is )

[analog sun]

Yeah i wonder what that circle with a cross in it could represent

[harsh burrow]

vegapunks devil fruit clones are close to being able to have no sea devil curse allowing strawhats like franky to get powers while on egghead?!?!?!

[lusty lark]

Next chapter we'll be getting some discoveries on the void century 100%

[tired karma]

No break next week right?

[primal cargo]

Okay so Vegapunk tells us that there existed a futuristic kingdom "900 years ago". Now what does that mean exactly?

A) 900 years ago is the start of the kingdom's existence, or the start of its "futuristic" period. That would mean it only existed within the Void Century, for a maximum of 100 years.
This would make sense if the futuristic kingdom is the same as the enormous kingdom discovered by Ohara, i.e the reason why history was erased.

B) 900 years ago is the last recorded time of the kingdom's existence, meaning it existed for a potentially long time, with its futuristic technology, before the Void Century, and it disappeared during it.
This would mean the futuristic kingdom is not the reason why history was erased, but only collateral damage from whatever happened then.

Option A seems more likely but I still find it a little sus. Does this mean Vegapunk has made discoveries about the void history ? That is supposed to be impossible without the Poneglyph.
Also it's weird to say " it existed 900 years ago" if it also existed 800 years ago.
The fact that Vegapunk gives us a date of "900 years ago", aka the last recorded time before the VC, to me implies that he does not have any knowledge of the void history.

[ashen surge]

AK was fully automated luxury gay space communism

[primal cargo]

When Clover explains the ancient kingdom, he says they discovered it from ancient texts and confirmed it with Poneglyph. There are no texts from the erased period, so to the AK must have existed, at least a little, before the start of the Void Century.
Maybe Vegapunk found stuff from just before the VC and made deductions from that.
This would mean that the AK had futuristic technology way before the start of the VC.

[ashen surge]

Void Century lasted 100 years and it ended 800 years ago so yeah I think the AK was destroyed during the void century

[candid stratus]

There's a few options. We've seen VP has a bunch of remains from that time. It's possible he was collecting and using them to help him advance the technology and probably also learn about the history at the same time. It's also possible he is from the Void century and knows about it by default.

[primal cargo]

Vegapunk was born and raised on Karakuri island within a lifetime from today

[ashen surge]

Being able to figure out that the ancient kingdom was a highly technologically advanced society doesn't necessarily mean you're going to learn about the events of the void century

[primal cargo]

He must have discovered remains, but I think only remains from 900+ years ago (that's what it sound like). Meaning he doesn't know what happened during the VC or how the Kingdom disappeared

But if the AK already existed long before the VC (long enough to develop all the technology), then what ever happened 900 years ago ?
It's strongly implied that the WG wants the history to stay unknown primarily because they want the AK's existence to be a secret. Why erase 100 years and not more ?

[ashen surge]

Maybe because there simply are no records left of pre-vc. vc events are deciphered in the poneglyphs which cannot be destroyed so that's why it's outlawed

[primal cargo]

But there are. The VC is a hole in the middle of history, the history prior to it is recorded normally

[ashen surge]

Yeah we know bits and pieces of the history of Celestial Dragon countries that have history to tell but it's not a lot and One Piece world lives in an era of technology where live feed television is probably the greatest technological advancement in the daily lifes of the common folk

[primal cargo]

Well I don't see anything to suggest that there's issues with the history records of 900+ years ago. We have Alabasta, Dressrosa and arguably Shandora as examples for, and none against

[ashen surge]

But are there records and not just fables?

[primal cargo]

We've got this. The Tontatta have a precise knowledge of their history before and after the VC. He even seems to talk about records, but regardless the history was passed down successfully to the present.
I also don't think the history of Alabasta as told by Robin was pure fanfiction by her. King Cobra's reactions throughout all the events fit this too.

Anyway the "100 years" comes from somewhere. If they had just erased everything prior to 800 years ago, it wouldn't be a void "century"

[ashen surge]

Ah you’te right about the records so how about this; the ancient kingdom rose and fell during VC

[primal cargo]

Like 900 years ago it went from one little country with future tech, to super-dominant world power ?

[ashen surge]

Yeah, what I meant by technology etc, the One Piece countries are very secluded so I think it’s easy to think that people in Alabasta are nor aware of Dressrossas history and so on

[junior lodge]

This might be a rather stupid theory.. but you guys know that objects can consume devilfruits.. what if luffys strawhat consumed a devilfruit and thats why it was passed down by all those people until luffy got it..

[primal cargo]

Makes sense, maybe 900 years ago is when the AK's influence reached a certain point where it would start to appear in other countries's history

[ashen surge]

Slaves hearing about automated robots doing all the hard labor for is something that's going to cause some concerns in pro-slavery kingdoms @candid stratus made a good observation that mariejois has "future tech" like escalators but it's operated with slaves.

[primal cargo]

That is a fantastic point

[ashen surge]

But I'm very interested how Imu fits into all of this, I seriously have doubts that they are a being that actually cares about something simple like that

[primal cargo]

I'm literally convinced this works perfectly well
AK was a technology country minding its own business
900 years ago it starts reaching/communicating with other countries that were using slaves
They tell them about this technology that makes slavery unnecessary, the slavers don't like it because bad evil
So they go to war against the AK and destroy it and erase it

[ashen surge]

Yeah and Imu probably provided the means for that war but for what reason?

I don't think it's because slavers are bad evil, I think there's more ideological reasoning how a society needs their hierarchies and the rules of cd kingdoms didn't want to give that power away

[primal cargo]

I dunno I'm not a huge believer in immortal Im, I think it's perfectly possible that Im only appeared recently
We're already able to make good guesses for the VC with just normal people
After all Enel was also a newcomer in a country that had seen 400 years of oppression

[primal cargo]

I'd argue that still counts as evil but yes you're right, that's also exactly what Aramaki said in Wano

[ashen surge]

I mean sure it's highly unethical but I don't want to bring the black/white dicothomy of good and bad to one piece

[primal cargo]

That discussion has probably been had many times here but I think good&evil is a very present thing in One Piece

[ashen surge]

And I actually disagree with that but that might because how I think about good and evil is very nuanced. For example I'm a full time doffy apologist and I don't see him evil, I see him a creation of the oppressive society that he is maneuvering in.

[primal cargo]

To elaborate I expect a big point of the VC/CD story to be how this kind of fucked up evil system can be constructed by humanity, without the need for some out of this world great power influencing anything. So I think I like it better if Im has nothing to do with the VC

[candid stratus]

It's all coming together bois

[ashen surge]

It's funny that I have talked extensively on what if the AK was a communist utopia where everyone was free and slavery is not needed and I was fucking spot on, I just didn't think of the fully automate space luxurity and kink outfits there

[primal cargo]

Yes well nobody is born evil, but clearly Doffy had a disposition for it and he was pushed by society into becoming it. But the result is that the guy today is evil
Anyway I didn't want to start this discussion again lmao

[primal cargo]

To be fair all we've seen from the AK yet is a giant robot. It's totally possible that the kink outfits are 100% by Vegapunk

[ashen surge]

I was joking

[primal cargo]

I was elaborating on your joke lol I mean we have yet to know for sure that the outfits come from Vegapunk's sick mind, maybe the AK people had evolved beyond the need for clothes

Other question is where does Joyboy fit into this ?
He was from the AK and he went around the world to all the slave countries to free the slaves and give out technology instead ?
Joyboy was active at the end of the VC though

Also if Wano was the ally of the AK, where is all the future technology ? They closed themselves off to escape the influence of the WG so why wouldn't they keep some tech with them ?

[candid stratus]

There's always a possibility that someone from the AK abused the technology and Wano decided to not go down that path and abandoned it all together. Kind of silly from them, but possible.

[ashen surge]

I mean the ancient weapons are pretty insane

[livid eagle]

I think, I just figured #OnePiece out...
by my understanding and after this LD DR.VEGAPUNK reveal....
One piece is 900years into a future of our present world/reality(After we got to a pinnacle of advancement in tech, civilization where we could develop advance things(weapons, organic foods, DNA modifications etc...), that eventually gave birth to the devil fruits), but how many years this present world used in getting there before the eventual collapse of that world is still a mystery....
ONE PIECE is a time travel of realities, merging worlds and how they've evolved over time...and characters(humans) adapting to their times/world... I mean, imagine the current inter-breeding between humans, of course, in Luffy time, what we see with these humans will 'probably' be possible.
The common reference to cultures of this present world or what we know as history are still elements Oda used to create the world and characters of the one piece world... eg(it's now obvious, Marines are the USA, with their current fire power and it's only somewhat right FRANCE is world government(present day france is super powerful).... The architectural references in OP are really significant)

[ashen surge]

What, the WG/Marines is imperial Japan and current japan mixed together erasing history of it's own war crimes

[livid eagle]

Ancient weapons = (Advanced) Nuclear Weapons( like how we have crazier bombs than what has been used in the past, around the world)
The One piece world is a small limited world, that is being birth out of many years of our destruction of our present world with our tech and civilization, and Oda is trying to show them the dangers of our past actions, what will happen if these Ancient weapons are activated again.

[ashen surge]

You do realize that the Ancient Weapons probably were built for defensive purposes?

And let's remember, guns don't kill people, people do.

[livid eagle]

By where the currrent HQ of the WG is located in the OP, Mary Geoise)- it was inspired by 👉🏾 Chateu De Chambord, France

[ashen surge]

You're talking about aesthetics, I'm talking about their political and operational designs

[livid eagle]

WG is current UN and marines are the USA(explains, why many nations are affiliated with them)

[ashen surge]

There are UN aspects in the WG but WG also has actual power regarding political governance and they are very different. There is a shit ton of systemic criticism of the pre-ww2 and also contemporary japan built inside the marines and the WG.

[livid eagle]

You're right, like present japan, despite their advancement in also everything, their traditions still lingers on, so, even in luffy's time, they could still be that influential and we've seen how important wano(present day japan) has been...
WG in luffy time comprises of nations like we see with current G-7 but who Imu is, is where One piece keeps getting interesting....
We could say Gol D roger was christopher columbus( i dunno how much he's know in japanese books though...this is just a wild thought given my own education)

[ashen surge]

I mean I agree with you there, I never thought of Roger as a pirate per se but he was outlawed by the WG because he sought after the VC

[gusty dawn]

have we seen one's awakening affect other people before Luffy's?

[pure raven]

Kid yea

[olive cedar]

i have a theory on egghead (already)
i feel like when lillith said it ran on "fire", she meant that it ran on fire made by captured lunarians. on top of that it would explain how they got the DNA for the seraphim.

[hoary hatch]

They most likely got the Lunarian DNA (or "Lineage Factor") from King when he was captured as a kid. That was how Vegapunk managed to copy Kaido's Devil Fruit after all. The latest Seraphim that was using DF ability from one of the Doflamingo family's officers is a bit harder to explain (though, I seem to recall that there was some SBS where Oda explained which DF powers he would give to the Strawhats that don't have them currently, and I'd have to check to be sure, but I think that was the DF that Oda said he'd give to Jinbe. So it could be a nod to that.)

[primal cargo]

Doflamingo's crew was captured by the Navy I believe, so they had Señor Pink at their disposal.
Then it's a matter of what Vegapunk is capable of. If 30 years ago he was able to reproduce Kaido's fruit, today he may be able to reproduce any fruit.

[cerulean trout]

Small?

[half basin]

Hmm I think luffy's dream is to have the biggest party but I want to add that he wants to have a party where everyone can meet up together i.e. have a place where everyone can party together.

This coincides with the other theory that luffy will use the ancient weapons to destroy the red line and bring all islands in one piece

and all blue which completes sanji's dream as wel

Basically luffy's dream is "I want to have the biggest party in one place(piece)"

[placid tree]

The reveal from the new chapter just put something into a whole new perspective for me: What if the Ancient Weapon Poseidon is actually the same sort of mechanism that Devil Fruits run on? A power that can be passed down genetically

[fathom matrix]

This might support the devil fruits are engineered theory, because Vegapunk was able to replicate a "perfect" cloned fruit.

Perhaps there were a inventions such as "THE ALL NEW, DOOR FRUIT! Fancy taking out your lady on the night? But HATE that traffic? Skip right ahead, traffic, no problem"

Or other advertisements like "brrr, is it chilling? Well with the all new, fire fruit. You can toast your buns, and your buns"

Like they were gonna be useful inventions for people, but they either ended up getting weaponised of modified for weapons combat

[deep crypt]

I think it's within the realm of possibility Kuma and BB could be from the same race, Kuma and BB both have a darker skin tone, and have the long curly black hair. The only difference being that Kuma is obviously much taller (BB in his own right is very very tall). BB was stated too have something up with his body by marco allowing himself to eat another DF and Kuma had the physical prowess for Dr Vegapunk to create the first batch of pacifistas. Not a whole lot on this theory but I thought it was worth throwing out there

[candid stratus]

#manga-theories message

[deep crypt]

Ayoo sorry I didn't see that

[wild vector]

Is it confirmed the radical beam is copied from the pika fruit? The power that sanjis brother has in his raid suit seems to be an energy paramecia, the beams he shoots put look like mini radical beams.

[candid stratus]

not a problem just wanted to say we had the same idea haha

[deep crypt]

I just didn't want it too seem like I was takin a theory or something xd

[candid stratus]

Didn't take it as such

[runic sapphire]

I am now 100% sure vegapunk is not alive anymore. All you can see is copies of him. The real vegapunk used to live 800-900 years ago. And he was a crewmate of JoyBoys pirates

I mean this guy literally split his body into 6 different versions of him. From which one is the Brain Shaka, the other one is the strength etc. etc

[modest skiff]

Vegapunk said he found stuff from 900 years ago so it feels unlikely he is from that time

[runic sapphire]

Let’s seee

[modest skiff]

And we are also told stories of his childhood during Franky’s time skip adventures in his lab

The inhabitants of the island say he was a young boy conducting experiments

[modest skiff]

I'm feeling very good about this theory I had a year ago now. The robot being stabbed by a sword strongly supports the idea that technology was lost and then suppressed.

[wary gust]

Do you guys think the last Road Poneglyphe is in the last island that the Log Pose can lead to ?
It is named Roadstar

[wild minnow]

Laughtale tells everything that has happened to the world. All the scientific discoveries that made human who they are are on the moon. All the evidences are there

Joyboy told Roger to go the moon. That's why Roger laughed and told they are early because they don't have the technology to do so.

Luffy will not only surpass Roger in the scale of sea but also outer space making him the freest of all

[pure raven]

as silly as it is i would fucking love to see luffy the space pirate exploring the galaxy

[proud tree]

Wasn't that literally Enels dream? To explore the endless varse? He valued space more then earth. Imo Luffy would be the opposite of Enel in that regard: Being ruler of the sea means to protect the planet. Not leave it alone.

[pure raven]

no

[proud tree]

The theme of Skypia was: The evil ruler of the sky (Enel ) vs the future king of the sea from below. Enel said: He is the ruler of the sky. And it's gods destiny to return to space (the moon)